How can the Government sell its CPRS?

Tuesday, 9 February 2010 10:20 by Ad astra

It was never going to be easy to sell the Government’s CPRS.  It is a complex plan to cope with a very complex problem – anthropogenic global warming.  But as recent events have muddied the debate about carbon mitigation, the Government’s task is now even more difficult.  So far it has not done a great job in selling its CPRS, perhaps distracted by its attempts to get the legislation through the Senate that would have succeeded but for Tony Abbott’s toppling of Malcolm Turnbull, and the Copenhagen saga.  Ironically, in a speech in parliament yesterday it was Malcolm Turnbull who described lucidly what the CPRS was designed to do, more so than Government speakers. 

CPRS and ETS will be used interchangeably in this piece.

Here are some of the issues complicating the debate:

Climate change sceptics/deniers have grown in numbers and loquacity.  Whereas previously they could argue that climate has been changing for centuries and what’s happening now is just part of a natural cycle and has nothing to do with carbon dioxide or human activity, now they can reinforce their position by reference to instances of mistakes in the report of the UN International Panel on Climate Change, the ultimate and until recently unchallengeable authority on the science of climate change.  Instances of sloppy, even deceptive science, and incorrect predictions based on poor documentation in the fringe literature or by inexperienced scientists, have also been cited.  This has been grist to the mill for those who seek to tear down the validity and reliability of climate science and those who work in it.  Well-funded globe-trotting climate change denialists are in full flight and attracting enthusiastic audiences to their heavily promoted performances.

Most members of the public have little interest in the scientific foundation of climate change and scant time to sort it out for themselves.  So if they have an inclination to scepticism, these occurrences quickly confirm their suspicions that global warming is a hoax.  This is despite the mountain of peer-reviewed scientific evidence in reputable journals that go to make up the first part of the IPCC report which provides such convincing evidence of AGW.  It is in the second and third parts of the report that attempt to predict the consequences of global warming that some errors have been found, just a few despite the strident publicity that the sceptical press has given them.

The Opposition has several sceptics among its numbers who have seized on these errors to confirm their views: Nick Minchin, Wilson Tuckey, Cory Bernardi, Dennis Jensen, Andrew Robb, and of course Tony Abbott himself, who seems to waver between ‘absolute crap’ denial and reluctant acceptance of the need to take out some insurance against the possibility global warming might be happening. 

Although among the general public there are an increasing number of sceptics, the proportion who want something done about climate change is a still a solid majority, and while support for an ETS has declined significantly, in this week’s Nielsen poll 56% still favoured an ETS while 29% opposed. 

The other factor muddying the waters is the Coalition’s abandonment of bipartisanship and the introduction of a new policy that promises to solve the global warming problem with a ‘Direct Action Plan’ that on the face of it seems to cause little pain, is not ‘a great big new tax on everything’, is purported to be less costly than the Government’s CPRS, and uses ‘natural’ methods such as tree planting, sequestration of carbon in soil and algal synthesis, all laudable.  It all sounds too good to be true, and it is according to analysts and yesterday none other than Malcolm Turnbull.  But that will not stop many voters from giving it a tick. 

When presented with a choice between the Coalition plan and the Government’s ETS, 45% of those polled by Nielsen preferred the Coalition plan and 39% the ETS.  Yet when asked to choose between the Government’s and the Coalition’s approaches to climate change, the results were the other way around: 43 per cent chose the Government’s approach and 30 per cent the Coalition’s. Pollster John Stirton thought ‘the apparent contradiction probably reflected voters' low level of understanding of the schemes’.  In Pollytics, Possum has done a more complex analysis of the answers to the Nielsen questions that will be of interest to those interested in the detail.

The selling of the CPRS therefore has to take into account not only the complexity of climate change, the scepticism surrounding AGW, the complexity of the proposed ETS and the way it will affect people, but it also has to counter the simplicity of the Coalition plan which has popular appeal to those who don’t wish to delve into the details and who don’t want to pay out of their own pockets to achieve success.  Few will question the effectiveness and the real cost of the Coalition plan because it is via taxes - just so long as it’s easy to understand and seemingly painless.

So what are the messages the Government needs to promulgate?

First, it needs to convince the sceptical that global warming is real and that if left unchecked will irreversibly change the planet and all life upon it.  The hard-core deniers are probably beyond persuasion.

Next, the Government needs to convince the people that the situation is urgent.  What looks to be a long way off is so easy to ignore.  So the Government needs to show that significant changes are already occurring all around the world, and how acting now will not only begin the process of reversal and avert calamity, but will cost less in the long run.

Then it needs to convince the public that humans are such a significant cause of global warming that it is their activities that must be curtailed to begin to reverse the adverse trends.

Next it must convince everyone that acting independently of the rest of the world is the way to go, that it will minimize costs and will give our industry a head start in creating renewable energy and the technology that reduces emissions, such as CO2 sequestration.  There is a strong and persuasive argument that Australia should not go first and jeopardize its economy.  Countering this will take a lot of effort.  But suggesting the rest of the world are laggards and will eventually have to catch up, might appeal.  Unfortunately the Government has used the ‘we’ll do no more, no less’ mantra so often that acting ahead of the rest of the world is now more difficult to sell.

Then the very basic messages about what the ETS is designed to do can be promulgated, namely limit carbon emissions, heavily penalize those who pollute so that they seek to pollute less, and compensate households for any increase in living costs that arise.

Finally, the Government needs to contrast its ETS with the Coalition’s Direct Action Plan and convince the people that the Coalition’s scheme is short-term, unlikely to achieve any mitigation of carbon emissions, is costly, and that it is the taxpayers who will pay the polluters to reduce their pollutions.

When one looks at the strength of the arguments that the Government could mount, it seems like a lay-down-misère, but it isn’t – it is probably the most difficult task for the Government in 2010.

Simplicity is essential in transmitting messages.  So let’s try to draft some understandable but brief promotional lines.  Please try your hand too.

On the reality of AGW

Global warming threatens our future

It is happening now

Human activity is causing it

We must act now before it’s too late

Acting now will reduce the cost

Acting now will boost our economy and create jobs

Acting now will give Australia a head start

The rest of the world will have to catch up

On the basic CPRS messages

The Government’s Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme:

Sets a limit on carbon pollution for the nation

Penalizes polluters, who pay heavily for polluting

Will reduce pollution

Will compensate households for any increased costs

Does not use taxpayer’s money

If the Government believes it needs to counter the Opposition plan:

The Opposition's Direct Action Plan:

Will allow polluters to go on polluting

Does not set a limit on pollution

Will not reduce pollution overall

Will use your taxes to pay polluters to pollute less

Will be very costly to the budget

Will not compensate you for increased household costs

All of these messages could be embellished by images that reinforce the message, and voice-over that adds impact if they are used in TV ads.

There’s a start anyway.  I realize some of you will likely disagree with some of the premises that underpin these lists and no doubt will express your disagreement; you may want to change some of wording.  But I hope you will try to improve the messages or add some if I’ve missed any out. 

For what it’s worth, the final list could be sent to the Government as the view of bloggers on TPS.

Let’s have your suggestions.

 

Comments (47) -

February 9. 2010 01:55 PM

Bushfire Bill

Without addressing the whole of AA's piece, I'd like to mention a CC Denier talking point that's becoming popular of late.

It's the one where CO2 is described as a "naturally occurring", "benign" or even a "vital" gas, which does no harm at all. This is misrepresentation of both the facts and the Climate Change science in one.

Climate Science tells us that the opposition to adding CO2 to the atmosphere is not because it is a poison, but because it soaks up infra-red radiation, thus heating the atmosphere over time. Whether it is benign, naturally occurring or vital is completely beside the point of Climate Science.

But of course it is poisonous, even in relatively small quantities. A build-up can quickly become life-threatening in a closed space.

But to argue this is to fall into the trap of missing the point about CO2 as it relates to Climate Change. You end up winning the argument about whether CO2 is poisonous or not (because it is definitely poisonous), but lose the greater argument about its role in Climate Change.

The mention of the relative innocuousness of CO2 has become common, commoner even in recent days according to my listening to radio and watching TV. It is designed to make CO2 look, not dangerous to our survival, but essential for it ion ever greater quantities, almost "the more the merrier". It is a very simplistic, disingenuous argument designed to fool those in the audience who do not understand the Science of Climate Change, or indeed, any science at all. They are supposed to think that if we go ahead and reduce CO2 pollution then we will be positively threatening life on Earth, instead of combatting a looming danger. The implication is that plants will die, crops will fail, and so on.

An even more simplistic variation of this is the "carbon is a non-toxic substance" statement. Note how the word "dioxide" has been excised from this truncated version of the patter? We think of carbon as soot, or charcoal, or "activated" granules in filtration systems, none of which will poison us because they are virtually inert under standard temperature and pressure.

There is more of this around. Seeing who is doing the talking you could be forgiven for thinking maybe they have been fooled as well into thinking the "carbon is good" family of arguments are relevant to Climate Change. Others, including scientists and several who should know better, repeat this mantra ad nauseam.

So, to AA's list of counter talking points I would add:

It is a man-made imbalance of CO2 in the atmosphere that is causing Climate Change, not just the mere presence of CO2, or of carbon.

Already you can see that even this short statement of fact is wordier than the other points AA has raised. This highlights the fact that the case for Climate Change is not a simple one, amenable to a few thriftily-worded sound-bites. So, I would add another talking point at the top of AA's list:

Climate Change, and fixing it, is not as simple as the Coalition would have you believe.

And ain't that the truth?



Bushfire Bill

February 9. 2010 03:22 PM

BB
You are right to point out that while CO2 is a naturally occurring substance, in excess it is toxic and harmful.  Too much CO2 in the blood will cause death.  Too much CO2 in the atmosphere traps excess heat and warms the planet.  So all this talk about CO2 being ‘benign’ and ‘natural’ and therefore nothing to worry about, is disingenuous and misleading.  Many naturally occurring substances in normal amounts are not toxic, but in excess they are.

Thank you for your suggested additions, which I will accumulate until the post reaches a conclusion.

Ad astra reply

February 9. 2010 03:45 PM

fred

How can the government sell its ETS/CPRS?

It can't.

For 2 reasons.

1.It's a lousy scheme for cutting emissions.
The bar has been set too low for any meaningful contraction of the pollution related to the levels necessary.
Its too little.
And its too late.
Too many exemptions to too many of the major polluters eg coal and farming, projected too far into the future.

The govt,in seeking to straddle the fence and adopt contradictory positions eg don't scare the [polluting] horses whilst simulataneously reining them in, lost the battle to the vested interests and denialists about 18 months to 2 years ago when Penny lost to the big polluters. Check out this link:
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg6xf-1111116485447

That is when and where the battle was lost.
Its been a slow erosion since.

Consequently supporters of action re AGW and generally supporters of the ALP, eg myself, cannot support the ALP scheme.
The govt has saddled itself with a do nothing [where the polluters want even less or more money or both] scheme that satisfies no one.


2.The govt. is not in control of the message sending process.

Its a common theme of this site, rightfully so, that the OO and the mass media in general in this country, has an anti-AGW stance that is strongly influencing the 'debate'.
Tim Lambert's "The Australian's War on Science" series gives chapter and verse on that.

Any message the govt tries to send has to go through massive filtering and 'noise' elements which simply ignores the key elements of AGW and amplifies the denialist nonsense.

Again, if they had been on the front foot about 2 years ago they may have been able to sell the message better, but its too late now.

I can see where most people, cos most are still in favour of action against the generally accepted threat of AGW, lets not forget that polls show most people are not denialists, will prefer the ALP rhetorical stance to the emptiness of the COALition smokescreen but as an issue it will splutter along on a few cylinders whilst peripheral issues [tax or not, sustainable energy, nukes] will drop in and out of the 'debate' but its no longer a vote deciding issue.
As Possum points out, its pretty much set in the concrete of rusted on party viewpoints.

Sad.

fred

February 9. 2010 04:27 PM

fred
Sad – yes it is sad for those who believe in AGW, but of no consequence to those who don’t.  Those who believe do see disaster ahead, but increasingly feel powerless to avert it, not because solutions are not available, but because so many refuse to see the disaster coming and because even those that do are continually targeted by the sceptics, the deniers and the media with false information, false reassurance, or misleading promises to fix it all at little cost and no personal pain.  

The climate projectile is hurtling towards us.  It seems a long way off to many.  Those who are fearful at its approach stand forlornly waving a small red flag hoping its trajectory can be changed.  But as you say fred, it is too small a flag, too small a target, barely visible, so paltry when what is needed is a huge flag that cannot be ignored.

You and I will likely never suffer the extreme effects of global warming, but millions of our descendents will if it continues unabated.  Rising sea levels, loss of arable land, diminishing food and water supplies, displacement of millions of people from their homes, spread of diseases to areas where they do not now exist, starvation and wars as the struggle to survival intensifies, will follow.

I can see the sceptics smiling at my rhetoric and the deniers scorning my naivety.  How they can take the risk that they are right and climate science is wrong when so much is at stake leaves me dumbfounded.  If their garage man, having seen many tyre blowouts, warned them before taking their family on a holiday that there was a 80 to 90% chance of one if their tyres blowing out sometime during their trip, with possibly fatal results, would they take the chance with their lives and those of their families?

I know the target is too low, but don’t you think that it’s worth the effort just to get started, worth the effort to convince the people that something must be done now?

The Government has been unsuccessful in selling its CPRS for a variety of reasons, but why not start now doing something, no matter how small?  That’s what this post is about.

Ad astra reply

February 9. 2010 05:00 PM

BH

I agree AA that the Govt. has relied on Turnbull bringing the troops along so they forgot about selling to the rest of the mob.   But a start now is better than nothing.

I noticed on Q&A last night that the PM got good applause when he said that he needed to prepare for the next 40, 50, 60 or more years, for the kids and future generations.  He was firm, clear and a little inspiring.   We need more of that.  

I also hear Greg Combet on RN.  In answer to an Abbott-type question of how much is it going to cost the small business person, Combet explained that the cost from the polluters will be picked up by the shopkeepers who will pass it to the consumer who will be compensated by the Govt.  

To simplify it further the PM should keep repeating that it will only cost some of us the price of a couple of cups of coffee.  That is little to pay to protect our descendants.

Now if they can say that more simply it goes a long way to explaining how the ETS will work.

BH

February 9. 2010 05:09 PM

HillbillySkeleton

  The government has to get the messaging, memes and its mantra right.
For a start, I'd be referring, 'til I was blue in the face, if I was in the government, to the Coalition's 'Great Big New Climate Con Job'.
* I'd be asking Tony Abbott every day for his modelling, and if he refers glibly to the NSW Government's scheme as the basis for his, then I'd be reminding the public how much it has blown out in cost already.
* Harp on the costing issue.
* Quantify and exemplify that Abbott's plan is a 'Climate Fig Leaf'(a la Hartcher).
* Refer to the costs of mitigation as 'Climate Insurance' against the catastrophic weather events occurring as a result of Climate Change, that we need to cover ourselves for, just like we do with our Household Insurance. Except Climate Change Insurance funds will be used  to prevent them happening. Hence, 'It's Insurance, Not A Tax', could be stated, over and over, and over again.
* Co-opt an old truism to become, 'Make the Polluters Pay for the Results of Their Actions'.
* Also, 'Do You Want the Big Polluters to Pay? Or, Do You Want to be Paying Them?'
  How's that, AA?

HillbillySkeleton

February 9. 2010 05:14 PM

Bushfire Bill

I get the feeling that Rudd took the "80% in favour" figure (when the idea of an ETS was bi-partisan) too much for granted. It went from being a contentious issue to merely a bullet point, something like:

* ETS/80% in favour

... with a big TICK after it.

After that the incredible detail of such a plan, effectively a free market run under strict government rules, requiring both houses of parliament to agree. All those committees, all the industry consultation, the barrage of science.

However, in the background the white ants were invisibly (at first) eating away at the foundations. Anyone could see it coming, really. Rudd and his government assumed that, once set, public opinion would be forever cast in concrete. But a bullet point on a piece of paper is not reality. It only represents what reality was when the original figures came in.

Next we had the Coalition pull away from an ETS, saying, "What's the hurry?" An ETS as soon as it was possible to legislate for one i.e. before Copenhagen, was no longer bi-partisan policy. The bullet-pointed "80%" would have immediately become a lesser figure. This was most likely the biggest division to occur in the "80%" figure, and it occurred early.

Time worked on the waverers too. The likes of Bolt and the other deniers ran a guerilla campaign. No matter that the graphs they said showed falling temperatures actually showed rising ones. No matter that much of the denialist "data" was cherry picked or taken out of context. People, absent a guiding hand and constant reinforcement from the government, were effectively being told they had made their decision at the last election and not only could they not change their minds, but that it didn't matter if they did. In effect they were told their opinions, their current opinions, were irrelevant.

Then we said goodbye to Turnbull and the Deniers were in charge of the Coalition. No matter that their policy (if you could call it that) has always been politically cynical - based on the principle of Climate Change as "crap", but paying paltry lip service to it to rope in the Climate Change Believers who wanted an excuse to switch back to them. Abbott gets away with the obvious question, "Why do you have a policy when you don't believe in it?" by claiming a slip of the tongue, or refusing to repeat his words, or saying it was not "his considered opinion" (without saying what is).

Next came the IPCC "revelations", miniscule drops in an otherwise ocean of robust science, but enough to raise suspicions that the UN was gilding the lily on Climate Change, that it was all a con job.

Then: Copenhagen. If anything made those who espoused a headlong rush to get an ETS through by Copenhagen look silly it was the less than scintillating outcome of that conference. A major gabfest, replete with green-painted protestors, hard-headed polluters, hangers on, mindlessly boring speeches, drop-in visits from Obama and other "leaders" and just about the coldest Danish winter on record... all in the name of Global "warming".

Lastly we had the political pundits declare just recently that Climate Change was no longer a matter of Science, but a matter of politics. In other words, facts no longer mattered, only political opinions, as if political opinions would stop the Greenland ice pack from melting. This gave final permission for the punters in Voterland to say, "Oh, I didn't do Science at school, so don't bother me with details." Not to say that the other side, the Believers weren't into the politics of it, but at least most Believers still thought the facts were important. Shanahan and his ilk gave the lazy among us the excuse to think it was just one person's opinion against another's.

All this time Rudd, I think negligently, rested on his laurels and relied on his one bullet point, from 2007:

* ETS/80% in favour

Support for the ETS remained a bureaucratic fact, signed off by everyone present, but not an actual fact, meaningful of anything other than that once upon a time it had been so. The truth is that almost everything has gone wrong with the Climate Change debate. Every wheel, decal, nut and bolt that could have fallen off the Climate Bus has done so with the effect that the looming disaster we have visited upon our grandchildren now looks (wrongly) to be a figment of a lot of imaginations suffering collective hallucinations and mass group-think.

In short, Rudd frittered away his political capital by not shoring up the truth behind the policy, by not reinforcing it at every opportunity, by accepting it as a given not worth of further discussion, merely relying on a  series of opinion polls taken years ago to give him reassurance he was on the right path. Rudd fiddled while Rome burned (or should that be "froze"?).

Thankfully he can't now abandon the ETS. This is simply because to do so would be to virtually resign from office, conceding that one of his major planks from the last election was no longer important. To give it all up now would be to admit that the opinionistas are right: it is all a matter of politics where the facts are completely incidental to the daily spin war.

How to prosecute a comeback? I'd say: "Start from scratch." Build the case again. Forget the devil in the details, the endless ins and outs of the way the scheme would work (there be insanity), grab the broad brush, the big six-inch one, and start painting a picture. Otherwise the human specie's prediliction for burying its head in the sand, aided and abetted by the whisperers in the media who can't see beyond their noses (the fools probably think they'll be able to buy their way out of trouble) will triumph. The biggest enemy in all this is the thought, even the whiff of a thought, that it's all "just politics". That only allows the voters to go back to sleep and convince themselves that Climnate Change and Global Warming are just a Great Big Con.

Bushfire Bill

February 9. 2010 05:24 PM

Sir Ian Crisp

The very first move should be for our Dear Leader to find a job for that crone Penny Wrong. Maybe chasing cars or haunting houses.

Sir Ian Crisp

February 9. 2010 05:28 PM

You must be kidding

AA et al
I am interested in the use of words and the arguments you all make. For instance BB I think was arguing that CO2 is poisonous and I think said is dangerous to plants etc ... his quote was thus
“They are supposed to think that if we go ahead and reduce CO2 pollution then we will be positively threatening life on Earth, instead of combating a looming danger. The implication is that plants will die, crops will fail, and so on.”
Not sure if he is arguing that CO2 will kill plants or not, but it seems that he does ... which of course as we know is a nonsense. And that could very well categorise much of the debate we have had on this issue.
There are two issues in AA contribution ... the issue of climate change, and the issue how the Rudd Government can sell its message.
Let me address the second issue first ... it is a simple fact that in life perception is the reality. If we perceive the shy lad to be arrogant then no matter that he is indeed shy, our perception is that he is arrogant and thus the reality from that perception is the lad is arrogant. Politics is very pure when it comes to definitions ... politics is the art of manipulation of perceptions, thus it does not matter what the reality is, it is the perception that is important.
The problem Rudd has is that the perception has changed or is changing. Rudd did not own the issue, the world did and whilst he brought a solution to the table he did not sell the perception of a solution to the Australian community. Thus when the world conference went pear shape a void developed. Add to this void the increasing perception about the manipulation of facts by those within the scientific community and we have a void where confidence in what we are told is on a precipice ... an alternate point of view then becomes a tangible alternative ... remember it is perceptions here ...
The mistake Rudd made was trying to lead the world and then when it deserted his view he is now stuck with a lemon. Doesn’t matter if the policy is the best ... it is a lemon (perception) and no one internationally supports such a move given to depends on trade and those traders who are the biggest will not comply ... so why penalise yourself when there is no tangible benefit to the world.
Unfortunately the PM is now stuck with the ETS ... and he will only win the debate if the bigger countries do exactly the same and go with an ETS but he will have to wait. His best chance is to put it through parliament, blame the deniers when it doesn’t pass and hope it goes away so he can develop a new approach.
The first issue is about CC. I reckon if you asked any person whether they support the environment their response would be ... of course ... if you asked them whether they wanted to protect the environment the answer would be ... of course ... which human would not concur.
The trouble we have though is that we have this thing called carbon which lives within most of the earth and its objects on it and if we disturb it by putting it into the air we have a hot house effect. How this hot house effect affects the world is unclear as modelling is still uncertain, suffice to say many think dramatically as AA suggested (storm and tempest) where as others say, well if we can’t change the temperature what do we do to protect ourselves.
The thing is ... Mother Nature is all compelling. Earth will decide what to do as it did for the billions of years before man emerged ... so the earth will respond and it won’t take into consideration our point of view. I suspect the Dinosaurs would be keen to have a second go, but they obviously did not have the capacity as we humans. But to suggest we humble humans have the capacity to change Mother Nature is strangely ambitious. The point is we can’t.
So if we are truly serious about taking control and reducing emissions then we must do it ... the question then becomes, which emissions and how do we do it?
If we disturb the soil we release carbon, if we drive a car we release carbon, if we buy a cow we release carbon, if we turn on power in Australia we release carbon ... so what to do? Of course plants need carbon and we need plants to want carbon so is the answer to grow more plants ... such as the wheat crop. But we are beginning to grow biofuel crops at the expense of food; we are cutting down trees for consumption and just last week the Queensland government announced a new coal powered generator ... the biggest in the country to be built. So whilst we may want to reduce emissions the answer lies in what actions we all do.
This is truly a dilemma ... do we accept a 2 degree increase in temperature... and if the modelling is right the problems associated with that could be devastating ... surely we should then be preparing ourselves for that occurrence as opposed to trying to alter Mother Nature as is proposed.
My view is this ... let us do whatever we can to reduce pollution ... this may mean using nuclear, penalising polluters and that means polluters like us who drive cars and of course industry ... if we are really serious then let’s begin to make the changes to lifestyle and become a zero emissions conscious community.
I am not convinced that trading emissions options will reduce emissions ... maybe I missed it but what is the penalty for going over your allowance ... and indeed how do you stop someone going over their allowance other than financially ... which of course does not reduce emissions. Traders can buy emission grants to continue polluting so how does that work in reducing emissions and why is it only mostly the energy polluters when the biggest polluters is the agricultural sector
There is no easy answer on this ... deniers, sceptics and believers all agree the world is the best place to live ... how we protect it is under dispute. I cannot see why we as an economy would be willing to penalise ourselves and our exporters for the sake of perception when there will be zero affect on the planets emissions. Doesn’t make sense to me.
So in direct answer to AA thesis ... Rudd has little chance of changing the perception and needs a different approach.

You must be kidding

February 9. 2010 05:54 PM

BH
I agree.  I also agree that the applause for Kevin Rudd in last night Q&A was greatest when he talked about the distant future, the future that those present will likely experience.  He also got good applause for his vision statement at the end.  It was a tough night for him with some pointed questions like the one the young lady posed: ‘can we trust you’ to keep your promises about hospitals – brought back memories of John Howard’s ‘who can you trust...’ line in 2004.

I felt he handled the situation well, but I bet his opponents would say he did not.  It certainly took guts to front an audience of young people by himself.

I’ve noted your suggestions BH.

HilllbillySkeleton
How’s that you ask – that is one powerful list of dot-points.  I’ve copied it to aggregate with other suggestions at the end.

BB
Your comment is an accurate but sad summary of how opportunities to reinforce the global warming and CPRS messages all last year were let slip.  And it might not have been so serious had Tony Abbott not pipped Malcolm Turnbull by just one vote.  The ETS would very likely now be law and beyond Abbott’s opportunistic reach.  It shows how politics can swing on the smallest or closest event.  Never again should the Rudd Government assume anything, but always prepare for the worst-case scenario and take preventive action.

Ad astra reply

February 9. 2010 06:22 PM

Sir Ian
Come on, this is serious discussion.  Whatever you think of Penny Wong, the suggestion that she chases cars or haunts houses is just silly.

You must be kidding
Thank you for your thoughtful comments.  I take the points you have made.

I’ll let BB answer your queries about what he’s saying.

I agree with your statement that “...if we are really serious then let’s begin to make the changes to lifestyle and become a zero emissions conscious community.”  Rudd cannot abandon his ETS nor should he as, of all the options, it has the best chance of reducing emissions.  We know that perceptions are everything in politics but we can’t become nihilistic about the global warming problem.  However much of a mess we are in trying to solve this problem we need to persist and do what we can, and now.

Ad astra reply

February 9. 2010 07:39 PM

janice

The problem now as I see it is that people still want something to be done about climate change but deep down there are few who are prepared to pay and many who have fallen for Abbott's rubbish that his scheme will cost them nothing.  Abbott repeats over and over that the billions he is putting on the table to pay the polluters to stop polluting will come out of the budget, yet no-one has given any thought as to where government revenue comes from, what it is used for and which group/s of taxpayers will suffer the loss of the billions out of the budget to be given over to polluters.  No thought has been given to the fact that despite the polluters being handsomely paid to stop polluting, energy costs will still rise and consumers will still have to foot the bill for the increases.

YMBK thinks it is all about perception but I disagree that perception has very little to do with this matter.  It is all about people being fooled into thinking they'll get  something for nothing which is a successful marketing ploy consumers have been falling for for yonks.  Abbott has tuned into that and therefore Rudd & Labor should attack this aspect with everything they've got and keep on hammering the point ad nauseam.  They should harp on the point (as BH suggests) that polluters pay and pass on the costs to business who in turn pass it on to consumers, who are compensated by the govt with the revenue collected from the polluters - circle closed.

janice

February 9. 2010 07:40 PM

Bushfire Bill

YMbK, what I was saying was that when CO2 is presented as nothing other than "benign" and even "vital" for life - completely irrelevant to the harm it can do as an infra-red absorbing, Global Warming agent -  - the implication is that deluded politicians acting on the advice of snake-oil selling scientists are out to nobble a wonderful natural substance. If you nobble or reduce a natural substance that plants need, then you potentially harm plants.

All of this is by implication, of course. CO2 may be odourless and colorless, and mostly non-toxic in small doses, even vital for life, but it is very, very dangerous in large amounts in the atmosphere as it causes it, and hence the rest of the planet to gradually heat up. The fact that plants need it is irrelevant to the Global Warming issue I doubt that with the spread of urbanizationand the hunger for resources we could ever plant enough trees to soak up the excess CO2 in the atmosphere.

To say that GMother Nature or whatever will take charge, and that we can do nothing about Global Warming now that it is happening is preposterous, and rather self-serving. Your sudden conversion to the ranks of the Gaia worshipping kum-ba-yah Greenies, with regulation reference to the living spirit and consciousness within "Mother Nature" would be touching if it were not so disingenuous.

If Mankind caused Global Warming, Mankind can fix it. Mother Nature didn't dig up millions of years worth of fossilized plant growth, with all the carbon it had sequestered, and then re-release it into the atmosphere. Mankind did. It should not be beyond our ken to come up with a solution to the problem that we created. We did it on a smaller scale with CFCs, we should follow that framework and try to fix the CO2 problem on a larger scale.

Mother Nature may have "decided" what to do when previous climate events threatened the Earth's equilibrium. Mostly a vast majority of species was wiped out. Are you happy for that to happen again? Might not the consequences for the proliferating human species be somewhat more drastic today than during the last Ice Age, when the total global population was miniscule? If climate warms more than a couple of degrees there will eventually be megadeaths, mostly of us humans.

It could be argued that mega human deaths would be good for the planet. A brutal proposition but one worth considering. But the Global Warming debate is not about quietly lying down and accepting some kind of "inevitable" fate. It is about reversing the process, taking a hand in our own future and trying to sustainably fix the planet we have damaged by our excesses, and which we all, especially our descendants, have to share.  

Bushfire Bill

February 9. 2010 07:41 PM

janice

Sorry.  Corection - The first line of second paragraph should read:
YMBK thinks it is all about perception but I disagee.  I think that perception has very little to do with this matter.

janice

February 9. 2010 07:44 PM

janice

Gosh, looks like I should have used the preview button.  Corection = correction.

janice

February 9. 2010 08:15 PM

Bushfire Bill

I think what YMbK means is that old mantra, "Everything is relative", as in, "Your fact is really just a matter of opinion."

When this is the guiding rule of life, then there are no facts, only "perceptions". Hence, one man's opinion being as good as anyone else's, whether Global Warming is a fact or not, no matter how many scientists and how much science is behind it, it is really just a bunch of perceptions that can be countered by saying, "I don't agree and that's my opinion."

Of course one man's opinion is not as good as anyone else's. His right to hold that opinion may be the equal of anyone else's, but not necessarily the opinion itself. As Global Warming has been officially dubbed as "just politics" by the opinion writers, then anyone has a right to pronounce upon the subject, with the implication that no-one is right, or conversely, that everyone is right.

As you wrote Janice, "I think that perception has very little to do with this matter." But that won't change the opinion of the true Global Warming Denier.

Bushfire Bill

February 9. 2010 08:58 PM

Macca

AA, an interesting and thoughtful read.Depressingly,I have come to the conclusion that the flat earthers are going to win this one. The rest of us, and the the future, will have to adapt. Fortunately the human race adapts remarkably well over time. After the senate did what it did last year I could add one more point for the Government to point out. ....A vote for the Greens is a vote for the big
polluters....and they certainly have proved that in this entire debate.

Macca

February 9. 2010 09:28 PM

janice, BB
The word ‘perception’ seems to be causing confusion.  In political circles it is often said that perception is everything, which I take to mean that what an individual perceives to be the truth is for them the reality.  I do not equate ‘perception’ with ‘opinion’.  The former seems to have an intuitive element to it, while the latter seems more a product of reasoning from facts, although that product may be short of verifiable truth.  I agree with you BB that perceptions are no substitute for facts, nor is opinion a proxy for facts.  Likewise I agree that one person’s opinion is not necessarily as good as another; the value of an opinion is the product of the quality and completeness of the factual data, the quality of the reasoning used to process the facts, and the experience of the opinion maker relevant to the issue.

What we are seeing in this climate change debate is the pitting of one opinion against another without the benefit of knowing how the opinions were formed.  In such a complex subject, most folks are unprepared both emotionally and mentally to process the facts and think for themselves.  Thus the opinions of ‘authority’, such as those of political leaders or parties, are taken as the truth, to be followed without question.  Mantras and slogans take on meaning that is unwarranted, and too readily become part of the individual’s perception and belief system.  This is hard to shake because beliefs were not arrived at by a process of reflection and reasoning and therefore are not amenable to change by that process.  Beliefs thus derived are almost impossible to challenge.

This points to the need in politics to capture the hearts and minds of the people by providing sound information and well argued conclusions before one’s opponents do.  They may not be as punctilious with the truth, believing that plausibility and superficiality will do, so long as it achieves the desired outcome.  We see this classically illustrated in the contemporary climate change debate.

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February 9. 2010 09:39 PM

Macca
Thank you for your comment.  I hope you’re not right about the ‘flat-earthers’ winning this one.  We not dealing here with a cricket match or an election or even a war, when the outcome of the ‘battle’ may not be earth-shattering; we’re dealing with the future of the planet and generations still to be born – that is earth shattering.  How anyone can be flippant about this is beyond my comprehension.

I note your point about the Greens.  They seem to prefer nothing rather than, as they like to put it, ‘locking in failure’, whatever that means.

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February 9. 2010 09:51 PM

HillbillySkeleton

  I just caught up with what Bushfire Bill had to say, and it inspired me to come up with a killer argument. That is, it doesn't matter how rich you may be, you won't be able to buy yourself protection from the effects of Climate Change. We'll all be in the same boat.
   To which I might add, that maybe that's why so many devout Christians are so sanguine about the future, in all its Climactic potential...they believe in the Biblical story of Noah's Ark, and 40 days and 40 nights of rain is to be expected!

HillbillySkeleton

February 9. 2010 10:12 PM

HillbillySkeleton
That sounds rather fatalistic. I believe some feel that way - we can't interfere with Nature's way. Nature has caused the problem and we can't reverse it. We just have to cop it. And thereforee we can't, in fact don't need to do anything.

It doesn't match my 'Let's do something before it's too late' philosophy.  It sound like a cop out.

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February 9. 2010 10:17 PM

HillbillySkeleton

YMBK,
     I can tell from your entry that you are not a scientist in 'real life'. Such an uninformed opinion based upon nebulous concepts of the behavioural patterns of 'Mother Nature' would be laughable if it wasn't for the fact that the majority of Australians probably have your level of understanding of the issue of Global Warming, or less!
  So it really does need to become a matter of communication to the great unwashed, at the end of the day. No offence intended, that's just the way it is. People have to be given something to grasp, to get a handle on Global Warming and Climate Change. So far, the government itself has been more interested in playing the politics of the issue, as opposed to selling it to the people. Now is the time for the sales job.
  Anyway, to answer your question about Emissions Trading. If a company uses up its Free Permits, issued by the government, because it has polluted over the limit, it will have to go out into the marketplace to buy more so as to cover itself for its increased emissions. Otherwise it will be breaking the law. It now has to pay to keep emitting. If it wants to emit more, it needs to spend more money, and so on. Through this mechanism alone it soon enough becomes an expensivge proposition for a company to be a big polluter. This is the 'Price Signal'. The message it is supposed to send is that, "You better find another way to do things because it might cost you so much to keep polluting that you'll go out of business." Which forces, say, a Power Station, to change from Coal to Natural Gas, or a Power Company to build a Geothermal Plant as opposed to a new Coal-fired plant.
  Also, as far as I understand things, there will always be a limited number of permits, so to go out looking for more puts you in competition with others looking to buy more as well, and this competition forces the price up even more, and drives businesses to act to find alternative ways to do their business, with other alternatives for their power sources.

HillbillySkeleton

February 9. 2010 10:57 PM

mehitabel

Something I put together for the guidance of ALP members in my own electorate:

TALKING POINTS FOR THE CPRS/’DIRECT ACTION’

A brief description of how it works:

•  Carbon emitting industries are penalised for the carbon they emit. They must buy permits to emit carbon. The number of permits that can be bought are restricted, to create a ‘cap’ on the amount of carbon which can be emitted.
•  This cap will be reviewed on a regular basis. If Australia isn’t on track to meet its obligations, then the number of permits available will be reduced, forcing up the price of carbon.
•  Some companies, which will be disadvantaged by this system because their overseas competitors will not be forced to pay for carbon in the same way, will be given some carbon permits for free.
•  However, this means there is still an incentive for them to reduce the carbon they emit, as they can then sell the unused portion of these permits to other emitters (and, of course, someone who has paid for a carbon credit but not used it can sell it on).
•  It thus becomes an asset which can be traded.
•  The money the government gets from selling permits will go back to ordinary householders to help them meet any extra costs.
•  These extra costs are estimated by Treasury to be about 1.1% per annum.
•  Householders will still want to save money on their energy bills so this will provide an incentive to invest in green energy. If they don’t want to, however, they will still be better off.
•   most households will be fully compensated, and will in fact receive about $200 more in compensation then they will spend in rising prices.
•  Sets a minimum target of 5% reductions in emissions on year 2000 levels if the rest of the world does nothing (so 5% more than the rest of the world is doing).

TALKING POINTS FROM THE ABOVE:

“It’s a funny tax that puts money in people’s pockets.”

“People in X will be better off under a CPRS.”


A brief description of Liberal’s ‘Direct Action’:

•  doesn’t include an ETS, so is not tradeable. (Global problem needs a global solution).
•  relies on tree planting (20 million trees), carbon soil sequestration and solar panels for the bulk of savings.
•  Will cost $3.4 billion over 3 years, about $11 billion over 10, claims it will equal a 5% reduction (on 1990 levels, compared to the government’s – higher – 5% on 2000 levels).
•  Does not set a cap of any kind.
•  Does not penalise any industry which maintains the status quo (‘business as usual’).
•  Imposes fines on industries which exceed ‘business as usual’ in consultation with the industy.
•  Rewards industries for reducing carbon emissions on a voluntary basis.
•  No compensation for householders.
•  Trees to be planted on public land. Solar panels 1 KW $1000 rebate (Labor’s rebate was $8000), capped at 1 million panels.
•  Carbon sequestration in soil accounts for 3% of the Liberals’ 5% target. As soil carbon is very difficult to measure at present, this method of reducing emissions is not recognised under the Kyoto agreement so cannot count towards it.
•  As there is no cap, there is no guarantee that emissions will reduce at all. The Department of Climate Change, using the Liberals’ own figures, estimate it will in fact see a 13% rise in emissions by 2020.
•  The cost of measuring soil carbon works out to be about $8 a tonne. The Liberals propose to pay farmers $8-$10 a tonne for carbon stored in soils.
•  Labor has invested $32 million into carbon sequestration and would reward farmers by 2 – 3 times the amount proposed by the Liberals for each tonne of carbon they store in their soils (regardless of whether this is counted towards our emissions target).
•  None of the Liberals’ 20 million trees are to be planted on farms, all are to be on public land. There is no benefit for farmers under this scheme to plant even a single tree.
•  The scheme is uncosted. As the Liberals are refusing to borrow money and are refusing to raise taxes, the only source of money for their scheme ($3.6 billion over the next 3 years) must be government expenditure.

TALKING POINTS:


•  “There’s nothing for farmers in this.”

•  “All the costs are going to be borne by ordinary people, not big business.”

•  “I wonder what they’re going to cut to pay for all that. I hope the school starts building soon. It’d be a shame if we lost that.”



Might be useful.





mehitabel

February 9. 2010 11:14 PM

mehitabel

Just re reading mine, knew I'd left something out of the original and have now spotted it:

Under 'Direct Action"

* The Coalition's policy calls for 20 million trees to be planted. Under the CPRS, however, we know that companies will plant trees as part of their carbon offsets (companies which can't meet the target set by the cap are required to offset any extra carbon emitted). One of the big energy companies is already planning to plant over 40 million trees if the CPRS is passed.


It would be snappier if I hadn't only just noticed I'd left it out!

mehitabel

February 10. 2010 06:39 AM

HillbillySkeleton, mehitabel
Many thanks for your helpful contributions.  A lot of useful information is accumulating on this post.  mehitabel, I have noted your suggestions for dot points.

Folks
I’ll be on the road all day, so won’t be able to respond until this evening.

Please ignore the spam that will inevitably arrive during the day; I’ll delete it when I get to Adelaide.

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February 10. 2010 08:01 AM

HillbillySkeleton

YMBK,
     I can tell from your entry that you are not a scientist in 'real life'. Such an uninformed opinion based upon nebulous concepts of the behavioural patterns of 'Mother Nature' would be laughable if it wasn't for the fact that the majority of Australians probably have your level of understanding of the issue of Global Warming, or less!
  So it really does need to become a matter of communication to the great unwashed, at the end of the day. No offence intended, that's just the way it is. People have to be given something to grasp, to get a handle on Global Warming and Climate Change. So far, the government itself has been more interested in playing the politics of the issue, as opposed to selling it to the people. Now is the time for the sales job.
  Anyway, to answer your question about Emissions Trading. If a company uses up its Free Permits, issued by the government, because it has polluted over the limit, it will have to go out into the marketplace to buy more so as to cover itself for its increased emissions. Otherwise it will be breaking the law. It now has to pay to keep emitting. If it wants to emit more, it needs to spend more money, and so on. Through this mechanism alone it soon enough becomes an expensivge proposition for a company to be a big polluter. This is the 'Price Signal'. The message it is supposed to send is that, "You better find another way to do things because it might cost you so much to keep polluting that you'll go out of business." Which forces, say, a Power Station, to change from Coal to Natural Gas, or a Power Company to build a Geothermal Plant as opposed to a new Coal-fired plant.
  Also, as far as I understand things, there will always be a limited number of permits, so to go out looking for more puts you in competition with others looking to buy more as well, and this competition forces the price up even more, and drives businesses to act to find alternative ways to do their business, with other alternatives for their power sources. I believe there is also a mechanism within the framework of the CPRS for the government to withdraw permits as 'Business As Usual' changes for the better.

HillbillySkeleton

February 10. 2010 09:00 AM

Cavitation

The views of the political insiders and outsiders about climate change are very different, and sometimes each group is talking to itself while at other times they talk to the other group. The problem is that Australia's actions on climate change are too minuscule to matter; we have too small a population and industrial base to make any measurable impact on the amount of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere. So our response to the problem, from an insider's point of view, is based on local political considerations. We are also limited in our response by the technology involved; there is no practical alternative to producing our baseload electricity other than using coal, which is our main contributor to the problem. But the outsiders, or the general public, do not understand this. They are still under the impression that balloons of CO2 or windmills will solve the problem, and that Australia's actions will save the Barrier Reef, and polar bears from extinction. The discourse is going on at two different levels, and are often at cross purposes.

Cavitation

February 10. 2010 09:16 AM

HillbillySkeleton

  When in need of a pithy one-liner, go to the Subbies:
'Carbon-cost surge under Libs'
...from the Oz today.
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg6nf-1225828496467

HillbillySkeleton

February 10. 2010 10:19 AM

Typecast

I work in the refrigeration industry and we went through all the same arguments in the 70s and 90s with the Ozone Hole - "the science is flawed", "the policies will cause massive economic hardship", etc. We banned CFCs worldwide with very little disruption and the science has been proven correct, in fact the industry has thrived and is already tackling the climate change issue on a global and national basis.

My additions to your dot points therefore:
Reality of AGW:
.It's not the CO2 that is the problem it is the amount we emit - it is too much for Earth to handle
.The proof of AGW has already been proven with the Ozone Hole

CPRS message
. In the 70s we stopped littering, lets work together again
. by buying carbon credits overseas we assist developing nations to change as well, using our technology - win/win

My (green) 10 cents worth.

Typecast

February 10. 2010 10:27 AM

HillbillySkeleton

Cavitation,
           That 'too small to make any difference' red herring is going off in the sun of an increasingly warm planet.
   We are a sovereign nation, and it is for this reason that any program we enact in this country will be noticed by others, no matter how 'small' our CO2 output is relative to other countries, or how little difference it may make to the world's CO2 level. It's called leading by example. Even a small cog in the machine can make a big difference, and conversely, if it is left out the rest of the machine will not function as well.
  Anyway, as the largest per capita emiiter of CO2 in the world it behoves us to acknowledge the fact and take the remedial action necessary to prove to the world we are dead serious about doing our bit.
  Also, when people say to me, "Why?", I say, "Why not?"

HillbillySkeleton

February 10. 2010 10:27 AM

HillbillySkeleton

Mehitabel,
          Good stuff!
I'm going to print it out right now and show it to my friends!

HillbillySkeleton

February 10. 2010 11:38 AM

Bushfire Bill

The same people who claim that our unilaterally getting the ball rolling on an ETS is a pointless exercise, as our economy is relatively small, would have been claiming a few years back that our stationing few hundred soldiers in Iraq was important as a sign that we were a member of the global community.

The "You go first" argument is bunkum.

Bushfire Bill

February 10. 2010 04:03 PM

Digger

In November 2007, I sat, as did millions of other Australians, and watched as a Labor government was elected to power.
At first, I felt a swell of pride and patriotism while Kevin Rudd took his oath of office..
However, all that pride quickly vanished as I later watched 21 Diggers, in full  dress  uniform with rifles, fire a 21-gun salute to commemorate the event.
It was then that I realized how far Australia's Military had deteriorated..
                                                      
Every last one of them missed.

Digger

February 10. 2010 04:29 PM

Kim

I think the government will be able to sell the CPRS to the majority. They just need to use the talking points you've outlined. Mining Mr Turnbull's recent speech about why he will cross the floor couldn't hurt; it was very clear and eloquent.

There are broadly four types of people when it comes to the CPRS. There are those that support it. There are those who accept the science, but are against the CPRS for various reasons, including 'it's a boondoggle', 'it doesn't go far enough', 'a carbon tax would be better', 'it contains too many concessions', etc... There are those confused by the whole thing, and they don't know who to believe. Finally there are those who simply don't believe the science at all.

Unfortunately, the last group seems to describe the new federal Liberal Party leadership, and the Nationals at the current time. This group demonstrate belief in 'truthiness', which is a truth that people claim to know intuitively, from the gut (the term was invented, I believe, by Stephen Colbert). It is essentially faith. Conservative politics in the USA has largely been ruined by this way of thinking. This country is going the same way.

It is impossible to talk these people around except by appeal to their prejudices and emotions. The use of demonstrable facts, logic, and analysis immediately marks you as someone who doesn't subscribe to 'truthiness', and hence an untrustworthy leftist. This is why it is pointless trying to debate this with someone who rejects the science; they have made up their mind that their 'gut feel' beats science hands-down. There is no common ground to be had with these people.

The other groups are rational and should be receptive to a clear promotional campaign to varying degrees.

One last thing on Stephen Colbert: He's nailed the phenomenon, and understands it completely, as is often the way with satirists.

"I don't trust books. They're all fact, no heart."
"You don't look up truthiness in a book, you look it up in your gut."

Kim

February 10. 2010 11:25 PM

Folks
Now in Adelaide – spam deleted.

Thank you all for your contributions, and welcome to newcomers to TPS – Typecast, Digger and Kim, and welcome back Cavitation.  I’ve enjoyed reading your comments and have noted the dot-points which I’ll integrate with others before finalizing this post.

It’s too late in the day to comment in detail, except to say that it’s good to see that the ‘we’re too small to make a difference’ argument has been challenged.  Also it’s gratifying to see the ‘you go first’ attitude confronted.  Why can’t we show leadership – other nations may be inspired to follow.  Should self-interest be the only governing factor?  Your description Typecast of how CFCs were curtailed by global effort and how success followed, is a good exemplar of what is possible through global action.

Your description Kim of the four types of attitude/belief are germane – to me the only group who cannot be persuaded are the outright deniers, whose mindset is not amenable to logical argument.

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February 11. 2010 08:52 AM

HillbillySkeleton

Kim,
    You are so right. 'Truthiness' does not=Truthfullness.

Sorry this is off-topic, but speaking of the magnificent Mr Colbert(who is on ABC2 at 7.30pm Mon-Fri night now), I just had to include his take on the probable Climate Change denier, and "Drill, Baby, Drill" girl, Sarah Palin. Enjoy:
www.alternet.org/rss/breaking_news/113354/colbert:_%27sarah_palin_is_a_f--king_retard%27/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=alternet_breaking_news

HillbillySkeleton

February 11. 2010 09:53 AM


HillbillySkeleton
What a delightful clip. Why don't we have a Colbert here? He could have almost as much fun with Barnaby, Joe and Tony.

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February 11. 2010 10:56 AM

Sir Ian Crisp

AA, I’m not the one being silly. You ask us to be serious so here is my serious contribution.

Your comment piece contains some contradictions. You say that the government needs to alert people about the significant changes occurring all around the world and then you say that a recurring theme is for us not to be first to act and jeopardize our economy. If significant changes are occurring all around the world how can we be the first to act? Then you suggest that we employ a bit of chicanery by telling the great unwashed that the rest of the world are laggards who will eventually have to catch up. To compound the message you then say that the government has used the “we’ll do no more, no less’ mantra so often that acting ahead of the rest of the world is now more difficult to sell. Is it my room that is spinning or is it my head? Just where are we on this issue and where is the rest of the world? Who is in the vanguard, us or the rest of the world? You display the essence of circular reasoning.

The PM is using a Procrustean approach to get the CPRS legislation through parliament (this is attempt number three) but compensating the big polluters like power generating authorities has seen The Greens withdraw their support. To add to his problems economist Alex Robson quickly destroyed Rudd’s ETS policy by letting us know that modeling done on the ETS was not consistent with the actual policy plans of the government. Further to that Robson went on to say that the ETS policy relies on ETS legislation being enacted in all countries, which we know is no more than a dream at this stage. As if to highlight that the ETS is an inchoate policy Robson then says that the ETS would fail to pass a cost-benefit analysis and telling us that the costs of the emissions reductions could easily exceed Australia’s entire current GDP. The government should sponsor an ETS which has been meticulously put together and which doesn’t harm Australia or Australians. Australia does not need an ETS which has been drawn up on the back of a paper napkin in a Canberra coffee shop. Australia needs an ETS that has a catholic appeal.

AA, your article also announces the death of another bedrock of classical liberalism. The right to differ was one of those bedrocks. Now, holding heterodox views earns the tag denier or flat-earther. Is the argument for an ETS so weak that dissentient voices need to be stifled and silenced with such labels. The weakness of the drastic climate change argument is emphasized when you dwell on the notion that in science it takes only one negative result or experimental counterexample to disprove a theory.

Finally AA, I would like to draw you attention to the assessment of Australia by international bodies, and we know that it’s impossible not to fall under the thralldom of international bodies. Australians have been identified as having the highest emissions per capita of any country in the developed world. Our emissions per capita are 6 times higher than China. Given that fact shouldn’t an ETS also call for an immediate moratorium on immigration. As a matter of fact, a moratorium on immigration should almost be the centerpiece of the ETS legislation. It’s absence merely underlines the lack of thought that went into the ETS legislation.

The last word must go to Martin Larson: “No religion can rise to power quickly without vast promises, fierce threats, and the doctrine of imminent disaster”.

Sir Ian Crisp

February 11. 2010 02:53 PM

Typecast

Since we have the highest emission per capita then maybe we need to "pull" emission reduction rather than try to "push" it via government legislation:

www.businessgreen.com/.../environment-agency-propose

This outlines a neat UK idea of an individual carbon ration card. As you purchase petrol and other high-emitting products your ration diminishes until you either have to curb your consumption or purchase some one elses rations - individual ETS! Market demand dictates supply, even rabid capitalists can't argue with that one.

I suggest this is too hard politically (and bureaucratically as mentioned in the article) because voters would rather government forced someone else to curb their emissions rather than force us to do it - NIMBY anyone?

BTW anyone know where I can get a transcript of Turnbull's speech. Every body is raving about it and I haven't heard it.

Typecast

February 11. 2010 05:22 PM

Sir Ian
Your considered comment warrants a similar reply, point by point.

The ‘significant changes’ to which I was referring were climate changes, not changes in carbon mitigation, so there is no contradiction of that with the recurring theme among many (not the Government) to not be the first to act and jeopardize our economy.  The Government believes that significant changes in climate warrant action on carbon mitigation now; whereas the Opposition and many business groups want to wait for others go first.

You may be right with your criticism of my using the term ‘laggards’ to describe the rest of the world; the term was referring to those nations that have no carbon mitigation scheme, as is the case with the US, China, India and many others.  The European Union has some sort of carbon trading, but my understanding is that it is different from the Government’s ETS, which pre-Copenhagen was said to be a world-leader in its approach.  Of course you may dispute this.

I’m not aware of Robson’s analysis, but he (or you) show your grotesque bias when he/you describe the ETS as having been “...drawn up on the back of a paper napkin in a Canberra coffee shop.”  Given the years taken to formulate it and the detail it contains, that is a silly statement.

We might all be well advised to avoid using pejorative labels for those who take a different viewpoint.  We’re talking science here.  You say it takes only one negative result to disprove a theory, so please give us that one negative fact, or facts, that disprove the global warming theory.  I don’t accept that a small number of errors, even dodgy science or reporting, are ‘negative’ results that can bring down the theory.

Finally, because we are indeed the highest per capita polluters we ought to be the most willing to take action.  Reducing immigration is not the answer.

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February 11. 2010 08:08 PM

mick smetafor

i wonder if we are neglecting the most effective approach here,and that is to more effectively promote the benefits of taking action rather than constantly focusing on the negative.after all if those clever marketing types can convince us that a dozen flattened and baked corn kernels or something that looks like axle grease spread on toast is a goood breakfast then surely they can come up with something to help.
i sometmes put my fold up bike in the car and go to some small town that i remember from years ago,and i am constantly suprised and delighted with the transformations from,in many cases drab and depressing dumps.i think that this is an unintended consequance of the environmental activism in the 70's which promted us to take notice of and appreciate the natural environment.prior to this,in the lower end of the social scale,a house was built some grass started and a few hydrangeas planted and that was it.yet nobody at the time could foresee this fantastic  transformation.
we could be at the begining of a much larger transformative change,but who is attempting to put it before us in an exciting and challenging way?

mick smetafor

February 11. 2010 10:40 PM

HillbillySkeleton

Typecast,
          Here's MT's speech:
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frgczf-1225827912208

HillbillySkeleton

February 12. 2010 08:36 AM

HillbillySkeleton

mick smetafor,
              I agree, the government needs to get in the ear of all Australians about what Global Warming and Climate Change are, and they need to open the government purse to do so; I can still remember how often the Howard government resorted to that option to sell its policies.
  So, if I were the government, I'd be printing up a leaflet to be dropped into each letterbox in the land setting out, unfiltered by the media, exactly what they are on about wrt the CPRS and Emissions Trading and Climate Change.

HillbillySkeleton

February 12. 2010 09:24 AM

Typecast

Hey Mr. Skeleton, thanks for the link

Typecast

February 12. 2010 10:51 AM

HillbillySkeleton

  I just had a great idea that might help the government in putting their case for the CPRS and action on Global Warming.
  As Tony Abbott has given the Shadow Finance Minister the imprimatur to range across all portfolios in his commentary, so should Kevin Rudd let Lindsay Tanner do the same in public.
  He could be put to work, outside parliament, explaining the costs and benefits of the CPRS to the people. Almost in similar terms to those that were used to sell the idea of the stimulus, which the government did very well.
  Call it 'An Investment in the Future'. Explain how the money from the 'pollution surcharge' will be used to not only compensate families for the shocks to their household budgets, which will occur in the initial implementation phase(just like the GST), but also how the money raised will be used to spur innovation and R&D into new technologies, keeping the Intellectual Property in Australia, for Australians to collectively benefit from; with higher standards of living, productivity growth, and job creation on a massive scale, as we sell our new technologies to the world.

HillbillySkeleton

February 12. 2010 12:03 PM

Typecast

That's thinking positive Hillbilly.

Add on also that the EU has already had an ETS running for nearly five years with no adverse affect to households, industry or exports.

Plus note that other nations we export to are implementing schemes (China & EU) and may well insist that nations they deal with must have one as well.

Typecast

February 12. 2010 09:59 PM

Folks
We seem to be running out of puff on this post and are attracting silly spam.  So I'm closing comments.  If you have any more on this topic please use the next post.

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