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The media, the polls and the Labor brand

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Monday, 5 September 2011 13:42 by Ad astra
In recent times there has been a confluence of three interacting factors: the escalating influence of the media on political discourse, a plethora of opinion polls on politics, and more lately, diminution of the Labor ‘brand’. This piece attempts to dissect out these interactions.

Despite emphatic and indignant denials from News Limited executives and editors that they have no plan to drive PM Gillard and her Government from office through their stories, there seems no doubt in the minds of many in the media that this game plan does exist. Articles on the ABC website, and in the Fairfax press and in Crikey, insist that this is so, over and again. This push for ‘regime change’ is talked about at a governmental level and on dozens of blog sites in the Fifth Estate. The Herald Sun banner headline last week: Tick, Tick, Tick, could hardly be a clearer sign that this is News Limited’s intention. The thrust of this piece rests on the premise that this is the case. People who really believe that this is not the case will find nothing much to interest them here.

For years now News Limited media have published stories adverse to the Gillard Government. They defend their right to expose the true state of affairs in federal politics, which right of course they have. But that involves giving a true picture of all the relevant facts, set out fairly in a way that enables voters to examine and assess the facts for themselves. The media also has the right, and sometimes the responsibility in complex matters, to analyse and appraise the facts and draw conclusions, and at times it has the right to offer an opinion, so long as it is clear that it is only the journalist’s or the outlet’s opinion. Yet this is not what we see. New Limited tabloids, and even its much vaunted flagship, The Australian, have consistently distorted the facts by using only those that suit its case through cherry picking, by deliberate omission, by misinformation and sometimes by telling downright lies. We saw the latter flagrantly on display in the Milne article last week, an article that not only contained proven lies, but sought to smear our PM with innuendo about her long past personal life and connect this in people’s minds with the contemporary saga of Craig Thomson. Anyone who is prepared to whitewash all this malfeasance should read no further.

I could fill several paragraphs with evidence to support my view of News Limited, but that would bore readers who have heard it all before. Suffice is it to point out the way in which the BER was berated systematically by The Australian despite 97% satisfaction documented in the schools where improvements were installed; its consistent attacks on the NBN and personal attacks on Mike Quigley, CEO of NBN Co.; and its unremitting assault on putting a price on carbon, despite every reputable economist supporting the market based mechanism that will follow, and the lack of even one reputable economist who supports the alternative Direct Action Plan of the Opposition. Moreover, even when the Government achieves a legislative success, this is usually relegated to the back pages or the small columns of News Limited papers. The good news is blurred, diluted or buried while anything that can be turned into a bad news story takes precedence. Ugly, demeaning cartoons of the PM embellish these unpleasant stories.

Given that News Limited is hell-bent on discrediting the PM and the Gillard Government, how does that play into the opinion polls and the public’s view of Labor?

Clearly, such behaviour, together with Tony Abbott’s and the Coalition’s incessant damnation of everything the Government does or attempts, has led to a view among the public that the Government is incompetent and unworthy of support, evidenced week after week by its continued poor showing in the opinion polls. And these oft repeated polls feed into one another so that now the Labor ‘brand’ is damaged not just at a Federal level, but also in NSW, Queensland, WA and Tasmania and is now being damaged in Victoria, a strong Labor state, and SA.

Reflect on just last week – how many times did we hear Tony Abbott, Joe Hockey and Scott Morrison insist that the Government can’t get anything right, is incompetent, and according to Hockey simply doesn’t know how to govern. They incessantly paint a picture of Labor as bumbling, error-prone, inept and hopeless, in contrast to the Coalition, which does know how to govern and will always do it better than Labor.

Yet this flies in the face of the successful passage of 185 pieces of legislation with no failures in a ‘hung parliament’. It flies in the face of the progress the Government has made with crucial reforms on climate change, health, mental health and disability, education, IR, the NBN, amongst many, many others.

It also curiously flies in the face of opinions expressed in a poll carried out by Essential Research among 1,043 respondents on 29 August. The table below is so germane to this piece that it is reproduced in full for your examination.  

Those polled were asked:

“Thinking about what the Labor Government has done over the last few years, do you approve or disapprove of the following Government actions?"

The scale is at the top, the sub-questions below, and the percentage responses below them. The first two figures are the most important: ‘Total approve’ and ‘Total disapprove’.

Total approve Total disapprove Strongly approve Approve Disapprove Strongly disapprove Don’t know

"Increased funding of health services
89% 5% 42% 47% 3% 2% 6%

Increasing the age pension
78% 14% 34% 44% 8% 6% 8%

Increasing superannuation to 12%
75% 13% 28% 47% 9% 4% 12%

Managing the economy to keep unemployment and interest rates low
70% 21% 21% 49% 12% 9% 10%

Spending on new school buildings
68% 24% 19% 49% 15% 9% 8%

Introducing a national disability insurance scheme
63% 13% 18% 45% 9% 4% 24%

Stimulus spending to tackle the GFC
61% 28% 21% 40% 15% 13% 11%

Paid parental leave
60% 30% 19% 41% 17% 13% 10%

Introducing a tax on large profits of mining companies
58% 29% 27% 31% 16% 13% 13%

Building the NBN (National Broadband Network)
54% 34% 19% 35% 17% 17% 12%

Stopping live cattle exports until welfare concerns were addressed
53% 34% 24% 29% 17% 17% 12%

Abolished WorkChoices
51% 33% 23% 28% 21% 12% 16%

Sending asylum seekers to Malaysia
39% 45% 17% 22% 20% 25% 16%

Introducing a carbon tax to tackle climate change
33% 53% 15% 18% 14% 39% 14%"

The Report noted that: “Government decisions and policies with highest approval were increased funding of health services (89% approve), increasing the age pension (78%) and increasing superannuation to 12% (75%).

“Only two of the actions listed received less than majority approval – sending asylum seekers to Malaysia was 39% approve/45% disapprove and introducing a carbon tax to tackle climate change was 33% approve/53% disapprove.

“Labor voters showed majority approval of all decisions and policies, Greens voters showed majority approval for all except sending asylum seekers to Malaysia (21% approve/63% disapprove).

“Liberal/National voters approved of half the items listed – increased funding of health services (89% approve), increasing the age pension (79%), increasing superannuation to 12% (71%), managing the economy to keep unemployment and interest rates low (54%), spending on new school buildings (54%), introducing a national disability insurance scheme (60%) and paid parental leave (52%).”

These questions cover many of the important areas about which Government action has been taken. The responses point to enthusiastic approval by the majority of voters (over 70%) of the top four items, solid approval (60 - 69%) for the next four and majority approval (50 – 59%) for the next four. Only the last two of the fourteen items show an approval of less than 50%, and they relate to the Malaysian agreement (39% approval, 45% disapproval) and the carbon tax (33%, 53%).


Yet in the self same poll the Coalition was 12 points ahead of Labor in the Two Party Preferred voting intentions, 56/44. 


How can this be so? Have the two negatives for the Government over the Malaysian agreement and the carbon tax so overwhelmed the twelve positives that those polled have weighed them up carefully and given the Government a heavy negative mark of 44 against the Coalition’s 56? This might be so, but it is implausible that those polled have gone through a logical process of weighing the twelve positives against the two negatives and ending with an overall bad negative voting intention mark. A more plausible explanation is that the voting intentions were canvassed first and the questions afterwards. Perhaps some might have wished to change their voting intention after answering the questions, mostly affirmatively, if they had had the chance. 


But in my opinion the most plausible explanation is that there is a marked disconnect between their thoughtfully considered responses to the questions, which were mostly positive, even among Coalition voters, and their almost instinctive aversion to Labor, the Labor ‘brand’, which evoked a strong negative voting intention for that party. 


While this Essential Report provides the best objective evidence to date of this disconnect, we see it in everyday political commentary by journalists. In recent days, to name but two, Barrie Cassidy and Malcolm Farr have on the one hand commented on how much the Government has done, while in the same breath have pointed to its unpopularity, its poor showing in the polls, and the impression in the community of an incompetent Government that can’t get anything right. They also comment that distracting issues, such as the Thomson affair, are ‘sucking oxygen’ from Labor’s efforts to ‘sell its message’, without for a second acknowledging that is the media’s preoccupation with these issue to the exclusion of the crucially important ones, that produces this outcome. How many Government-initiated press conferences on vital matters have been overwhelmed by questions on unrelated but titillating subjects that just happen to interest the media? 


How has the impression of incompetence been generated? Some would say the Government itself generates this because it is incompetent. Yet the more thoughtful journalists, the respondents to the Essential poll, and Independents such as Tony Windsor, Robb Oakeshott and Andrew Wilkie see the Government not only as competent but achieving, except in a few contentious areas. 


My thesis is that the Coalition and its media fellow travelers have generated the image of incompetence and has fostered this repeatedly with almost every utterance. 


Last Thursday 2GB’s Ray Hadley began his interview with Tony Abbott about the High Court ruling by asking: “Is there one thing they could possibly not stuff up”. Now we don’t expect anything else from Hadley or his shock jock mate Alan Jones who malevolently berates the Government and PM Gillard at every opportunity. But it does illustrate how easily this impression of incompetence can be promulgated. Of course Abbott quickly picked up on the incompetence theme, as did Joe Hockey on 774 ABC radio Melbourne the same day, something those two, with help from their Coalition mates, have done repeatedly, dating back to the early days of the Rudd Government. 


Moreover, a level of hatred and loathing towards Julia Gillard and her Government, which has reached pathological levels, has been generated not just by Tony Abbott and his Coalition confreres, but also with unparalleled vehemence and vitriol by the shock jocks. Will we ever forget the dressing down Alan Jones gave our PM for being ten minutes late to his infamous show where he called her ‘Ju-liar’? Can we ever erase the sight of him, and of Tony Abbott, with Sophie Mirabella and Bronwyn Bishop, standing in front of the ‘Ditch the Witch’ and ‘Bob Brown’s bitch’ placards at the Canberra rallies? Reflect on the endless images of Jones berating the PM that we have seen repeated on Media Watch. 


These venomous people, and lets add Ray Hadley and Chris Smith to the ugly list, are deliberately fostering a level of hatred, distrust and detestation directed at this nation’s PM, the like of which we have not seen in a long while. This is dangerous. It has led to talk of assassination among the extremists; even Jones on a public broadcast said Julia Gillard and Bob Brown should be put in a hessian bag and dropped out to sea. What sort of talk is this in a peace-loving society? 


We have seen through the ages how anger, hatred and loathing can be whipped up against minorities, against religious and ethnic groups through the continual repetition of disparaging remarks and lies. Joseph Goebbels infamously said: “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” He went on to say: “The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Isn’t this just what we are seeing day after day: lie after lie, not maintained by ‘the State’ but directed at ‘the State’ by the Coalition, the shock jocks and a large chunk of the MSM? They are fomenting these ugly and dangerous emotions among our people, such that they gather at rallies, wave nasty placards and shout obscenities. 


This piece argues that there is a disconnect between what the people think and believe when they take a calm and considered view of what the Government has done, is doing and plans to do, where they largely give it a tick, and what they feel when subjected to a torrent of hate and condemnation from the Coalition, the shock jocks, and a large sector of the MSM, that leads to: 'They are doing quite a good job when you think about it, but I hate Ju-liar and her incompetent bunch of ministers that can’t seem to get anything right, and so I’m not going to vote for Labor'.

Because of this disconnect, the Labor brand has been severely tarnished and seems unlikely to return to its shiny state unless polished over and again with multiple accomplishments, acknowledged honestly through the media. That is the task ahead, but unless the largely hostile MSM changes it direction and attitude, it may prove to be impossible in the remaining two years. 


It’s curious and troubling that because of the unremitting negativity that has been directed at Labor for so long, emotion has over-ridden thought and factual evidence and reigns supreme when pollsters come around seeking voting intentions. The Labor brand lies so tarnished at present that fewer and fewer wish to embrace it. Can logic and truth overcome emotion and restore its lustre? 


What do you think? 


Comments (460) -

September 5. 2011 02:04 PM

Casablanca

Ad Astra.

Another excellent essay

Reflect on just last week – how many times did we hear Tony Abbott, Joe Hockey and Scott Morrison insist that the Government can’t get anything right, is incompetent, and according to Hockey simply doesn’t know how to govern. They incessantly paint a picture of Labor as bumbling, error-prone, inept and hopeless, in contrast to the Coalition, which does know how to govern and will always do it better than Labor.


I can't for the life of me remember who recently used the phrase 'the once great Liberal Party'(may even have been the PM in QT)  but I think that it could become an effective invective in the current atmosphere. It is pithy and targetted. What say all of you?

Casablanca

September 5. 2011 02:11 PM

Casablanca

Gillard's a goner, Shorten's still bloody. Stand up, Simon Crean
Amanda Vanstone
September 5, 2011

Opinion

Read more: www.smh.com.au/.../...on-crean-20110904-1js5s.html

Casablanca

September 5. 2011 02:27 PM

Ad astra reply

Reb
What a pity the best you can do is to reduce this piece simplistically to “It’s all the media’s fault…”.  The piece does not argue the case that the Government is blameless.  Would you care to come back and argue the case that the media is blameless?  We would value your considered opinion.

Casablanca
Thank you for your kind remarks and for your link to the Amanda Vanstone article.  I think we will see a spate of such pieces as the media encourages destabilizing speculation about Julia Gillard’s prime ministership.

Ad astra reply

September 5. 2011 02:30 PM

D Mick Weir

Ad,
quick first take

It is not what you are doing, it is how you are doing it

D Mick Weir

September 5. 2011 02:38 PM

reb of Hobart

Of course the media isn't blameless, but I think you credit the likes of Alan Jones with way more influence than he actually carries.

The following is from Crikey:

We trust Laurie Oakes and George Negus to bring us the news. But not Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt.

And the news is worse for Bolt, the nation's pre-eminent conservative crusader, with more than half of respondents to an Essential Research survey not knowing who he is.

Essential put a number of journalists and commentators to its weekly online panel to ask who they most trusted.

The results perhaps aren't surprising, and skewed with state-based stars, but show among the trustworthy and reviled that some of the nation's hot-headed megaphones aren't as famous as they might think.

Negus, the former 60 Minutes globetrotter turned host of Channel Ten's struggling 6.30 bulletin, shared the most-trusted title with Nine's veteran political reporter.

Both scored 75% in the trust stakes, though Oakes polled slightly higher (33%) than Negus (27%) in the "a lot of trust" column.

Radio rabble-rouser and chief government critic Jones was the most disliked, with almost half saying they had little or no trust in the 2GB breakfast host.

A third said they had no trust in him as a commentator whatsoever.
A trio of Victorian-based commentators had their figures dragged down by a lack of recognition.

ABC Radio's Jon Faine and 3AW morning rival Neil Mitchell both scored 40% in having "no trust" or "not much trust", while The Age's political editor Michelle Grattan came in at 34%. Less than half of respondents to the survey could name the three, with Faine the least recognised at just 33%.

Bolt's national TV profile -- after quitting the ABC's Insiders he now hosts a Sunday morning platform on Channel Ten -- hasn't done much to boost his fame: almost half (48%) said they didn't know who he was.Despite Tony Jones' lower recognition factor, the ABC Q&A and Lateline host was third behind Oakes and Negus as the journalist or commentator most trusted. Grattan was fourth.

reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 02:39 PM

Ad astra reply

D Mick Weir
As I don’t know what you mean by “It is not what you are doing, it is how you are doing it”. I’m looking forward to your next take.

Ad astra reply

September 5. 2011 02:42 PM

Patricia WA

I posted this on our earlier thread.   2.bp.blogspot.com/.../gillard.jpg

It went unnoticed among the nasties, our unwelcome visitors,  which is what happens on a wider scale to all the great and positive things Julia Gillard and her government are doing.   This weekend amid all the sleaze,  malice and leadership speculation in MSM our Prime Minister was doing her job and representing our country.

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0gdZcEVbMacyP

Patricia WA

September 5. 2011 02:49 PM

nasking

Top piece Ad astra.

This piece argues that there is a disconnect between what the people think and believe when they take a calm and considered view of what the Government has done, is doing and plans to do, where they largely give it a tick

Ad,
I was talking to my parents on the weekend and tried to work out why they dislike the government so much. Regardless of the accomplishments I pointed out and the benefits they have received from this govt....and how much has been done for their daughter-in-law's school, most of the time they stubbornly held to the view that "Gillard has to go".

The major reasons they brought up were "Labor governments privatised & made electricity too expensive"..."Gillard stabbed our QLDer Kevin"...and "The carbon tax will make things harder".

The asylum seeker thing has just fed into their already biased views on the government & the PM.

Obviously the government is not breaking thru communication-wise. It's why I reckon we need someone like Beattie in federal parliament.

BTW, they get their news from shock jocks, ABC 24, ABC radio, and the various evening news.

Says a great deal about the ABC reporting. Mum's a rabid conservative and luvs the ABC. She's getting her money's worth.

Interestingly, when my wife told my Mum about Julia's warm, cheerful visit to the traumatised primary school across the road, mentioning specifically feedback from kids & staff, her view of the PM softened.

Note: the school had just lost students in a fire.

Also, my wife showed my mum & stepdad quite a number of pictures on her laptop related to the science lab refurbs & the school's vege & fruit garden partially funded by govt...providing details of how they were completed & run... both were highly impressed. I believe it was part of a presentation they/she give(s) to parents of students.

My Mum said: "Why doesn't the government showoff these wonderful projects?...we never see them like that...you S' could show them a few things".

My stepdad nodded & agreed. He was impressed.

I said that I thought the government was shy about promoting such accomplishments because the BER had been bashed so much in the media.

My Mum replied: "That's the problem with this government...it's too scared...it shouldn't let Murdoch push it around".

I was surprised she mentioned Murdoch. And agreed the govt. needed to be more courageous, communicate accomplishments more effectively...and push the Murdoch media back.

BTW, they're torn on whether the Libs should have Abbott or Turnbull as leader. My stepdad dislikes the religious aspect to Abbott's approach.

N'

  

nasking

September 5. 2011 02:50 PM

reb of Hobart

"the nasties, our unwelcome visitors?"

I thought you wanted to talk about the issues...?

You know, instead of just name-calling?

reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 02:52 PM

nasking

BTW, I reckon Gillard was breaking thru during that time she got on the road & down & dirty w/ the people. It was a mistake to stop.

Abbott has out-peopled her.

N'

nasking

September 5. 2011 02:54 PM

Casablanca

Memo sent to staff by the Secretary of the Department of Immigration, Andrew Metcalfe, the day after the High Court decision:

Colleagues

Yesterday’s High Court decision (M70/2011 and M106/2011) has significant implications for aspects of government policy and the department’s work. I am sure that many of you have seen the extensive media reporting about the judgment. I thought that I should write to you to discuss the judgment and what is happening as a result.

The High Court’s decision involved analysis of a number of sections of the Migration Act 1958 and the Immigration Guardianship of Children Act 1946 and of course related primarily to the government’s announced policy to transfer irregular maritime arrivals (IMAs) to Malaysia.

The policy framework

The Malaysia Arrangement was the first example of an arrangement made under the Regional Cooperation Framework agreed to by the Bali Process Ministerial meeting in March this year. It was intended to remove the ability of people smugglers to market and sell Australia as a destination for people travelling without visas – the vast majority of whom seek asylum when they arrive here. The policy was framed with a mind to lessons of the past and in the context of:

•  Australia’s universal visa requirements and our very
        successful migration, humanitarian and visa programs
•  our obligations under the Refugee Convention and a
        number of other international treaties
•  the large numbers of IMAs in recent years
•  the government’s determination to stop people attempting
        perilous voyages which can result in tragedy (such as
        SIEV X which sank in October 2001 with the loss of over  
        350 lives; SIEV 36 which exploded near Ashmore Reef in
        April 2009 and resulted in the loss of 5 lives and with
        many other people badly injured; and SIEV 221 which sank
        off Christmas Island last December with the loss of many
        lives)
•  the dramatic effect of past policies involving the very
        quick removal of people from Australia such as occurred in
        1994 with the ethnic Chinese/Vietnamese groups; in the mid
        1990s with a number of groups of Chinese nationals; and in
        late 2001 with the tow back of several boat loads of
        people to waters adjacent to Indonesia – in other words,
        to the place from which they had departed
•  it is indisputable that these actions sent a clear message
        to people smugglers that they could not guarantee what
        they are selling arrival and processing of claims in
        Australia
•  several other past policy and operational approaches,
        which have had mixed success over time
•  the preparedness of people smugglers to actively seek to
        counter Australia’s actions
•  our excellent working relationship on these issues with
        our regional partners
•  it being understood that Australia could give effect to
        its obligations under the Refugee Convention by virtue of  
        arrangements made with other countries declared by the
        Minister to offer protection and access to asylum
        procedures
•  an arrangement with Malaysia that provided such protection
        and processing for persons transferred from Australia
•  our being advised that our legal case was sound, and
•  an expansion of our offshore refugee and humanitarian
        program.

The proposed arrangements with Malaysia and Papua New Guinea, as well as the establishment of the Regional Cooperation Framework, have involved countless hours of work undertaken by the Minister, his advisers, and many officers from our department and other departments.

We have seen these arrangements as a positive, creative way of addressing some of the most complex policy, human and legal issues our country faces. We have been focusing on all aspects of these issues – global and regional policy, international humanitarian law, Australian law, operational logistics, and our responsibility for people we detain under Australian law and whose immigration status we decide. As I often say, we have to operate in the real world, a world that is often complex.

I said in my recent statement to a Parliamentary Committee:
“The driving factors of people movement are often positive – such as through economic and skill relocation factors, or family reunion programs. Sadly though, people movement is also driven by other factors such as war, conflict, and crisis. There are tens of millions of such displaced people globally. It is these often vulnerable people who sometimes are preyed upon by people smugglers and traffickers. But many people who travel in an irregular way to Australia are very determined. They have, or acquire, the thousands of dollars charged by people smugglers. They want to live in a developed country. They want a better life for themselves and for their children. Some of the travellers themselves are unaccompanied children. They are prepared to, or are forced to, take risks such as relying on shady middlemen and travelling on false documents and sometimes in dangerous vessels. Tragedies sometimes result.”

The Minister stated in his media comments yesterday:

“I’m proud of the policy. I’m proud of the fact that we were able to achieve a regional agreement which many people said we wouldn’t be able to do. I’m proud of the fact that this government is determined to break the people smugglers’ business model. I’m proud of the fact that those 4000 people in Malaysia, who would never have the money or the inclination to risk their life on a boat, will no longer need to do so. I’m proud of that. I think it’s an elegant policy, which achieved those objectives.”

The High Court decision

I will leave it to lawyers and others to comment in detail on yesterday’s decision. Suffice to say the Court (with the exception of Justice Heydon) has taken a view of the relevant provisions that was not anticipated in earlier judgments by courts in this area.

The statement released by the Court explaining the majority judgment indicated, among other things, that:

‘The Court held that, under s198A of the Migration Act 1958 (Cth), the Minister cannot validly declare a country (as a country to which asylum seekers can be taken for processing) unless that country is legally bound to meet three criteria. The country must be legally bound by international law or its own domestic law to: provide access for asylum seekers to effective procedures for assessing their need for protection; provide protection for asylum seekers pending determination of their refugee status; and provide protection for persons given refugee status pending their voluntary return to their country of origin or their resettlement in another country. In addition to these criteria, the Migration Act requires that the country meet certain human rights standards in providing that protection.

The Court also held that the Minister has no other power under the Migration Act to remove from Australia asylum seekers whose claims for protection have not been determined. They can only be taken to a country validly declared under s198A to be a country that provides the access and the protections and meets the standards described above. The general powers of removal of ‘unlawful non-citizens’ given by the Migration Act (in particular s198) cannot be used when the Migration Act has made specific provision for the taking of asylum seekers who are offshore entry persons and whose claims have not been processed to another country, and has specified particular statutory criteria that the country of removal must meet’.


The minister has indicated that the government is seeking urgent legal advice from the Solicitor General on the implications of the judgment. The government will doubtless make further announcements as to its approach to this most complex issue. I will keep you informed of these developments.
The wider work of the department

I know that many people are understandably disappointed given the substantial work that has been undertaken on this issue. As I have said, this does not however, diminish the substantial work of the department each and every day by our staff globally. I am very conscious of the fact that the issue of the management of irregular maritime arrivals is one part of our very large and diverse program of services. Our department makes a very substantial contribution to Australia and to nation building. For this you should be proud and be aware that the senior executive and I are very appreciative.

Andrew Metcalfe
Secretary — 31 August 2011

Casablanca

September 5. 2011 02:58 PM

Ad astra reply

Reb
Thank you for responding so quickly.  I haven’t had time to read this week’s Essential Report, but what you quote is interesting.  Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt seem to have a lot of airplay and TV coverage, certainly on ABC outlets that I watch, so it is interesting to read that such a large proportion of those polled in the Essential Report don’t know them.  It would be reassuring if the Report was representative of the whole electorate’s views.  

But what of the almost daily condemnatory headlines in The Daily Telegraph and the Herald Sun, which are the most widely read papers in the country?  Do they accurately reflect the truth?  How many people do they influence?

Ad astra reply

September 5. 2011 03:07 PM

reb of Hobart

Ad,

The word on the street is that Bolt's TV show is about to get axed due to poor ratings.

reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 03:10 PM

reb of Hobart

But what of the almost daily condemnatory headlines in The Daily Telegraph and the Herald Sun, which are the most widely read papers in the country?  Do they accurately reflect the truth?  How many people do they influence?

What of it?

If you believe everything you read, regardless of where you read, then you're a fool..


reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 03:15 PM

Pat

Wow, I'm amazed and shocked. I thank the media for bringing all these lies, deception and back stabbing to our attention. Can you give any example of where our PM or any ALP member have not been critical or sarcastic towards the opposition as shown on TV or printed in the media?. Although the media certainly can amplify the appearance of any mistakes, I don't believe the current government can blame them for their current predicament, the government's mistakes are 'loud' enough. Our government would not survive in any other civilized country, infact, they should thank Tony A, as that is probably the only reason why they are still in power. Australians simply cannot afford to fund their agendas for personal power gain anymore. The forceful, autocratic management style has gone long time ago. Agree with Reb, "nothing to see here...move along..."

Pat

September 5. 2011 03:20 PM

Ad astra reply

Patricia WA
That is the image of our PM that all the electorate should see instead of the negative image and carping criticism that is direct towards her daily.  I looked at the photos, but I think it escaped comment because there were other distracting comments.

Reb
How about we draw a line in the sand now and get back the issues.

Nasking
What an interesting conversation you recount.  I suspect that this reflects what is being said all over the country.  Reversing such strongly held views is a big task; I only hope the Government supporters are up to it.

Casablanca
Thank you for posting Andrew Metcalfe’s memo to his staff.  It reflects a substantial level of disappointment among those that have been doing a lot of work on the Malaysia deal.

Reb
It’s interesting what you say about Bolt’s show.

Relegating to the status of ‘fool’ those that believe everything that they read in The Daily Telegraph and the Herald Sun, the most widely read paper in Australia, ignores the fact that many do so believe and have a vote.

Ad astra reply

September 5. 2011 03:30 PM

Ad astra reply

Pat
Welcome to TPS; I think you haven’t been here before.  Do come again.

I see you assign ‘megaphone’ status to the media, which unquestionably is true.  That is bad enough, but do you absolve it from disingenuousness, fabrication of stories, and at times downright lies?  Whatever the faults and mistakes of the Government, or for that matter the Opposition, is the media entitled to exaggerate, misrepresent or deceive, when it proclaims to be a paragon of truth and accuracy?

Ad astra reply

September 5. 2011 03:32 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

Thankyou for yet another marvellous piece of writing. Your words are magnificent Ad, your writing is magnificent, Your blog is magnificent.

See that means you are a magnificent marvellous person, values of gold.

Ad there must have been 50 links posted last week
in "Today's Links"  about the Murdoch campaign to bring down the Government.  This is not just a TPS opinion, the Murdoch campaign is a fact, the biggest demonstration being their unreserved apology to Julia Gillard for a printed article that was not true,   Anyone that can't see what is happening in the media is
not reading and not looking.  I forgot not listening.

Here is that polling that was mentioned:

Essential: we trust Negus and Oakes, but who’s Andrew Bolt?, Jason Whittaker, Crikey
Bolt’s national TV profile — after quitting the ABC’s Insiders he now hosts a Sunday morning platform on Channel Ten — hasn’t
done much to boost his fame: almost half (48%) said they didn’t know who he was
http://www.crikey.com.au


CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 5. 2011 03:33 PM

Casablanca

Reb

You said

What of it?

If you believe everything you read, regardless of where you read, then you're a fool..


There are a lot of fools out there and the unrelenting barrage of fear and doom from the shock jocks, the MSM and the once great Liberal Party is directed largely at them.

Your argument Reb, is similar to that of the advertising industry which tries to argue that negative messages do not affect their target group. That the negativity and violence does not influence people. As if everyone receives only the most positive of messages and filters out the negative parts. If the industry's arguments held true, then why spend squillions of dollars on advertising if it has no appreciable impact.

I have always been a strong supporter of the policy of compulsory voting but that support is being strongly tested with the ascendancy of shock jocks and B-grade journalism. I'm pleased that schools teach kids how to evaluate and assess the media messages at least there is some hope for the future.

Casablanca

September 5. 2011 03:37 PM

reb of Hobart

"Relegating to the status of ‘fool’ those that believe everything that they read in The Daily Telegraph and the Herald Sun, the most widely read paper in Australia, ignores the fact that many do so believe and have a vote."

I'm not sure what your point is.

It's a well established fact that people will gravitate towards media that gives them the message they want to hear.

It's also a well-established fact that News Limited is biased towards the Coalition.

So I'm not exactly sure what it is that you find so new or different...

What I do find interesting, is that the prevailing sentiment of your article is that the media is somehow to blame, and yet the latest research from Essential suggests that two of the government's most critical commentators Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt hardly rate a mention in terms of their influence.

What I also find interesting, is that Labor supporters cannot seem to accept that the Gillard government is hugely unpopular in its own right, but instead seem to think that this is somehow someone else's fault.















reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 03:39 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Well, of course it is only the brainy types that are uninfluenced by the biased media. The rest of the voting public are mindless, and easily fooled.

Though we now have exactly the same media structure that existed in 2007.

Apparently the public were more independently minded, and less easily fooled a few years ago.

Tom of Melbourne

September 5. 2011 03:40 PM

Pat

I agree 100% in that reporting should be correct and accurate, but when quoting our politicians one day, might make you a liar the next (sorry, I to make this tongue in cheek statement).
I honestly think that the ALP over-played their hand early days with the media and the public saw right through it. What immediately comes to mind is during the Brisbane floods, the initial head-lines and NEWS of the day was that Anna B interrupted her holiday!!
There were a few others, and the government now has to deal with what I think has back-fired.

Pat

September 5. 2011 03:55 PM

reb of Hobart

"Your argument Reb, is similar to that of the advertising industry which tries to argue that negative messages do not affect their target group."

No, that's not my argument at all, and I'm not quite sure how you got that impression.

I work in the advertisingh industry, and I think you'll find that negative advertising is actually more effective than positive advertising (generally speaking).

Particularly when it comes to newspapers. Death and destruction, fear and negativity sell newspapers, not good news stories.

That's why invariably newspapers are full of bad news stories.

I think one difference between Labor and The Coalition is that Abbott and his colleagues are much more savvy than say Wayne Swan and Julia Gillard at handling the media.

Abbott's constant repetition of "great big new tax" might've seemed idiotic to amny of us, but when it becomes a five second sound-bite in a news bulletin, it's got a pretty good chance of appearing if he repeats it ad nausem.

Gillard made a big mistake with her sour grapes press conference following the High Court determination on asylum seekers.

And that just added to the perception of incompetence...

Heck, they didn't even have a contingency plan.

Politics is not "a nice business" and managing the media just goes with the territory.

The reality is that Gillard and Co are simply not as competent at managing the media as the Coalition are.

Blaming the media for Gillard's poor polling is just a cop-out.

reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 03:56 PM

reb of Hobart


"Though we now have exactly the same media structure that existed in 2007.

Apparently the public were more independently minded, and less easily fooled a few years ago."


Exactly. LOL!!

reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 04:04 PM

Pat

Ad,
I did forget to thank you for welcoming me in joining this discussion - thanks. I will however, be turning my attention to future policies and economical decisions (facts and figures) that I believe is in the interest of Australia and not focus so much on who's to blame for our current predicament or perception of government (opinionated). It is strange how one (talking for myself) gets involved in politics when things are obviously going wrong. Under a good government I just get on with my own business. I’m sure your ‘blog’ will spark some good debate.

Pat

September 5. 2011 04:04 PM

Gravel

Ad Astra

It’s curious and troubling that because of the unremitting negativity that has been directed at Labor for so long, emotion has over-ridden thought and factual evidence and reigns supreme when pollsters come around seeking voting intentions. The Labor brand lies so tarnished at present that fewer and fewer wish to embrace it. Can logic and truth overcome emotion and restore its lustre? 


Another excellent article AA.  I understand how emotions can over-ride thought and factual evidence, but how long can the media, in concert with the opposition, continue to play on our emotions so negatively for?  Will Australians eventually get fed up with being played on their emotions, or is it too late?  Will they have to suffer an Abbott government to be woken up to what is happening?  

Sir Liealot is telling people what he will do at official functions that barely get reported.  He will be able to say that is what they voted for as he spoke about it before the elections.  

Oh, I give up trying to work out what will happen.  I am just sitting back and watching.

Gravel

September 5. 2011 04:15 PM

jane

Great post, as usual Ad astra.

reb appears to think that the meeja has been accurate, truthful, honest and unbiased in its reporting on both the government and the opposition. I happen to disagree vehemently.

The media has never honestly scrutinised Liealot or the Liars Party. Why is he never called into account for his constant lies, brain farts, "policies" which the next day he denies announcing, and extremely dodgy costing on policies which actually survive more than 24 hours.

He has now <a href=www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-fn7x8me2-1226129281582>denied saying he would cut $70bn in spending</a> to fund his absurd Direct Action policy, only to be contradicted by Andrew Robb.

So is he just absent minded or a straight out liar? No prizes for guessing which.

Any comments meeja? Deafening silence, broken only by the sound of the occasional cricket and tumbleweeds.

If there was such a disagreement in government ranks, headlines would be screaming and shock jocks like Anal and Hadley would be spewing bile and talking heads would be pontificating.

Unlike reb, I also think this state of affairs is solely due to the toxic influence of the Murdoch owned media. The sooner the geriatric foreigner is stripped of his stranglehold on Australian media, the better.

Casablanca, thanks for the link and the pithy phrase.

I also think the government should be hammering the contradiction angle as hard as they can lick.    

jane

September 5. 2011 04:27 PM

Tom of Melbourne

[i]”reb appears to think that the meeja has been accurate, truthful, honest and unbiased in its reporting on both the government and the opposition.”/i]

This is typical of the verbaling that opposing views get here, reb has said nothing of the sort.

He has made an intelligent and articulate contribution, based on some experience.

But rather than reply to the actual content, people here find it sooooo very much easier to verbal, misrepresent and delete  factual comments.


Just more proof that this is a site that distains alternative perspective.

Kind regards

“Bumchum”

Tom of Melbourne

September 5. 2011 04:27 PM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
Thank you for your generous remarks.   You are right, there have been countless links that reinforce the view that the Murdoch media is trying to bring down the Government.  Those who can’t see or acknowledge this seem blind to the obvious.

Thank you for the Crickey piece on the Essential Research Report.  It was fascinating reading.  Of course the poll was conducted among only those that are on Essential’s list, so how representative it is cannot be known

The way in which the results were displayed in the Crikey piece was different to the way Essential Research displayed it.  The former used a heading ‘Don’t know them’ and the latter ‘Total know them’, which is perhaps an easier one to use.  Clearly Laurie Oakes (85%) and George Negus (91%) were best known, but Alan Jones was not far behind (84%).  Where the difference lies is that the level of trust as against distrust is high with Oakes (75%/17%) and (Negus 75%/16%), while with Jones it is low at 38%/49%.  Bolt doesn’t fare too well - 52% know him, but 43% trust and 42% don’t.  Neil Mitchell is around the same.  However, the massive audience that Bolt attracts in his Herald Sun columns and his blogs (millions of hits a month) means that even if only 43% trust him, that is a massive number.  It would be unwise to discount the influence of Bolt.

Reb
Re-read the piece and you will see that it concedes that the Gillard Government is, to use your words, ‘hugely unpopular’, as evidenced by the opinion polls, but that is in contradistinction to the considered views of those polled, who when asked to evaluate some fourteen Government initiatives gave twelve a big tick.  That was the whole point of the piece – the disconnect between the voting intentions of those polled and their considered views about Government actions.  This disconnect is attributed to the way in which the media has painted the Government, which does not accord with its actual achievements.  Nowhere is it asserted that the Government has made no mistakes that deserve adverse comment; rather that the good things they have done have received little recognition and positive publicity, and instead condemnation, for example, the BER.

Ad astra reply

September 5. 2011 04:28 PM

Patricia WA

A non-sequiturI know but what the hell does this mean?

Only 19 per cent of Liberal voters want Turnbull, compared with 40 per cent for Abbott. And right now the Coalition is happier dishing out the lash than taking it, even if it means being led by a man who’s likely to eat the soap if he spends too long in the bath.

newmatilda.com/.../were-all-squirming-and-suffering-together

I've seen all sorts of analogies and metaphors in my time, but this one has me flummoxed.   Why have I never come across it before?      

Patricia WA

September 5. 2011 04:28 PM

Jason

Reb,
   To follow on, all the government has to do now is govern like they will be in opposition after the next election! forget the bleatings of "industry groups" with deep pockets that wish to run expensive add campaigns, revert to a position closer to "Labor Heartland" and to hell with it!

Abbott for all his bullshit will have to explain how he hopes to undo any policy sooner or later, and even the "ABC's"Anthony Green blogs.abc.net.au/.../...n-are-just-ridiculous.html says should Abbott win the 2013 election it will be 2015 before he can go to a DD election.
Abbott has one small problem with what he says he will do and can do and that's the constitution,a small matter I know!but why would anyone want the facts to bother them.

Jason

September 5. 2011 04:39 PM

2353

While the ALP will get the support from the Greens they need to:
1. Introduce on-shore processing of refugees
2. Have an enquiry into the media - looking specifically at bias, management/ownership and agendas
3. Introduce truth & anti-vilification in media laws - Bolt & Jones would last a week at best (which would be a warning to the rest of them).

The also need to find some media managers that aren't afraid to call out falsehoods and exaggerations as and when they occur.  The LNP's recent history is full of well documented contradictions and exaggerations - it should be like shooting fish in a barrel for a media manager to find the issue that gets traction and exploit it.  Even advertising along the lines of "on [insert date] Hockey/Pyne/Abbott/Morrison said whatever, on [insert later date] Hockey/Pyne/Abbott/Morrison said exactly the exact opposite.  And they want you to trust them to run the country???"

The current Govt's record is good (see above for the stats - they have also achieved more in Parliament than any term of the Howard Govt.  They should be shouting it from the rooftops - instead they are cowering.  Why is that?

2353

September 5. 2011 05:01 PM

Catey

Very good article AA.  I have long been concerned at the threat to democracy posed by Murdoch and his agenda driven press.  News Ltd is in a very privileged position in this country, controlling 70% of our newspapers.  No wonder Labor can't get its message out!  It is said that as The Australian doesn't pay its way it is heavily subsidised by Rupert Murdoch.  This tells me The Australian is his personal propaganda tool.  It is relentlessly anti government (including Greens and Independents) and, tragically for democracy, the ABC (TV and radio) seem to constantly permit The Australian to set the agenda for the day.  Thus rendering the regularly argued point  "if you don't like it don't buy it"
irrelevant.

Catey

September 5. 2011 05:08 PM

Ad astra reply

Patricia WA
Adam Brereton’s piece in New Matilda reflects the cynicism that afflicts many who observe politics today.  

But no matter how much contempt commentators elect to heap upon Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard, there is no escaping the fact that Tony Abbott has contributed massively to the dysfunctional state of affairs in Federal politics.  Yet how often is he called to account by the MSM for his negativity, destructiveness, pugilism and downright dishonesty?  Reflect on how different it might have been with Malcolm Turnbull at the helm of the Coalition.  There would have been antagonism, opposition and some nasty rhetoric, but does anyone, I mean anyone, believe he would have been as recklessly destructive as Abbott has been?

Yet in the MSM we read of Abbott’s ‘clever politics’, his magnificent gains in the polls, his intelligent strategy of opposing everything the Government does as if this was the right thing to do.  How much have we read of the craziness of his Direct Action Plan, his paucity of coherent policies, his ineptitude in economics, the massive black holes in his quasi-budgets, his weathervane ‘say anything to anybody anytime’ to catch a vote?  There are the occasional pieces, but if this were PM Gillard behaving thus, the headlines would be blasting her into oblivion.   Yet there are people who seem disinclined to lay at the media’s feet their contribution to this state of affairs.  Amazing!

Ad astra reply

September 5. 2011 05:22 PM

2353

And while we're crusading - someone needs to pull the CEO's of Myers, DJ's, Harvey Norman and so on aside and explain to the the reason why no one is spending money is they are s&*t scared of a USA style recession.  The group that has made the consumer scared is the LNP.  They probably have the opportunity and ability to tell the LNP to shove the doom and gloom up their collective orifice and explain that Australia really isn't travelling too badly.

In short - the retailers can't support the LNP and at the same time decry the lack of spending in shops across the nation.  (Oh - and ensuring prices reflect the current strength of the Aussie Dollar might help as well.)

2353

September 5. 2011 05:23 PM

Ad astra reply

Jason
It will be fascinating to see Tony Abbott’s dismantling strategy.  He’s accomplished at destructiveness, but as you point out, destroying the constitution is another matter.

2353
The question you ask is one to which we would all like the answer?  Where are Labor’s media managers that they cannot counter more aggressively the Coalition’s lies?  We here have asked why Labor cannot get more competent people who can capitalize on accomplishments and counter Coalition deception.  It should not be that difficult.  But how much play would their efforts get in a largely hostile MSM?

Catey
If this is your first time here, welcome to the TPS family.  Do come again.

Thank you for your comments.  You are right – The Australian is Murdoch’s propaganda tool, and as he calls the shots as to who ought to form the next government, his sycophantic journalists do what Uncle Rupert wants, that is if they want to hold onto their jobs.

Ad astra reply

September 5. 2011 06:00 PM

Ad astra reply

2353
You are right.  If the community is sacred, Tony Abbott’s unremitting scare campaigns must share some of the responsibility.  Harvey Norman, Myer and David Jones should whisper in his ear to shut up.

Ad astra reply

September 5. 2011 06:04 PM

reb of Hobart

"reb appears to think that the meeja has been accurate, truthful, honest and unbiased in its reporting on both the government and the opposition. I happen to disagree vehemently"

Excuse me, exactly where have I said that...?

This is the second time I've had to you out on your bullshit accusations against me, and I supect like the first, you won't have any evidence to support your assertions.

What a pathetic little love-in we have going on here....

*rolls eyes*

reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 06:13 PM

Jason

reb,
   "What a pathetic little love-in we have going on here...."
And jesus wept!

Jason

September 5. 2011 06:20 PM

reb of Hobart

You disagree Jason?

It seems that anyone with a view that departs from the prevailing wisdom here is immediately attacked as having been "seduced by the Murdoch media"

Or even having all your comments deleted from another thread altogether.

All I can say is that you lot deserve each other.

Rather than put "commentators to the sword" all you want to do is publish comments that adhere to the Gillard/Labor is great view, rather than publish anything that might question that view.

Sad really.

A perfect example of groupthink.



reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 06:35 PM

nasking

Very good article AA.  I have long been concerned at the threat to democracy posed by Murdoch and his agenda driven press.  News Ltd is in a very privileged position in this country, controlling 70% of our newspapers.  No wonder Labor can't get its message out!

Catey,
I agree that the inappropriate domination of the newspaper media by the murdoch empire, and the fact they have so much sway over SKY NEWS, does make it more difficult for the government to consistently get out the positive messages.

The bias against the government and a number of its policies is evident...and the fact that it has been supported in its Coalition & think tank--originated anti-government campaigns on far too many occasions by the usual suspects in the ABC & Fairfax...and predictably the shock jocks...means the government needs more luck & communication skills than normally required.

The problem is exacerbated by a number of other factors, including:

(1) Special interest groups who disagree w/ the government on a number of its "righter than right" & less than green stances, including "The Malaysia Deal", perceived catering to Gunns in Tasmania, continuation of live exports, pursuance of free trade practices, promotion of a kinda performance pay & chaplins in school...and support for the gas/fracking industry...to name a few.

It's positive the media provide them w/ an opportunity to air their views...so it should be in a democracy...but these special interest groups are also used by the Murdoch empire and other media outlets opportunistically to attack the government & give a sense of division...to help fulfill their "undermine the PM & Labor" agenda.

The gay marriage issue has also led to vitriolic attacks on the PM & previously Rudd by a number of special interest groups...and certain bloggers...and high profile individuals...and protest groups. Part of democracy. But adds to the negative labelling.

(2) Disatisfaction in the ALP w/ some of the policies (as outlined above). This ensures that negative views of the party are leaked out. As evidenced by the asylum seeker debate.

(3) High profile critics that were members of previous ALP governments, under Hawke/Keating particularly. And former state ALP government ministers/leaders. Just adds to the uncertainty about the PMs "authority" and ability to deliver.

(4) Own goals...and previous stuffups...and changes/backflips in policy/reform. The asylum seeker issue looks like an "own goal" coming off the back of "East Timor" claims...the previous abrupt shutting down of insulation program hurting the very workers they were supposedly out to help & protect another "own goal" off the back of a insulation scheme stuffup.
The perception that Gillard shifted in her views on helping manufacturers & their unions looks like another "own goal"...particularly bad timing when Abbott was on the backfoot due to claims of bein' a "weathervane". Gillard gave him an "out". The media were able to claim "equivalency". The same can be said for Gillard's last minute "no carbon tax" statement...it helped nullify aspects of Abbott's flipflopping & lying.

(5) The lie (see above re: carbon price).

(6) The assassination of a PM, as in Rudd. Gillard unfortunately looks complicit. The ALP looked like they had no spine in the face of bad polls & media onslaughts.

(7) NSW - powerbrokers, factions, corruption...I'll leave it there.

(8) The Thomson affair. Looks sleazy. See NSW comments above. The media campaign has been professional, like an assassin at work.

(9) Misogyny - this is an ocker country generally...Aussies are still havin' a hard time gettin' used to a female leader. Plenty of misogynists in media & sports here. Doesn't help.

(10) Marriage - Gillard isn't. The media & others take the piss out of it. Plenty of older voters who have been married for yonks & Christians don't trust her judgement...some think she might be a closet lesbian. It's all gross & sad...and tells alot about how far our society in general has come. Olders voters vote.

(11) Religion - Abbott's religious, Gillard's a self-proclaimed Atheist. During a crusade & war related to religion, the Christians etc. oft groupthink when an Atheist is in the picture...and no "more chaplains in schools" or quoting the bible or attending religious community meetings will change that I reckon.

(12) Minority government...media message oft repeats Coalition assertion the government is "not legitimate".

(13) Abbott & the people - Abbott gets out & about...the media are obsessed w/ this former journo & his antics. He's done it well, unfortunately. Gillard is still only 30 metres down the track...to Abbott's 90 metres. She needs to get out more & mingle w/ the cameras ON.

(14) Communication of policies - do I really need to go there.

(15) Anti-intellectualism - the dumbing down & "don't trust the elites" bit pushed by the Murdoch empire & shock jocks. By media linking Gillard to Greens they get the "knockers" and "non-university trained workers" going. This sees Gillard act more ocker to overcome this...only leading to "head shaking" on the part of anyone w/ half a brain who sees it as more "overreaching"....and askin' "who is the real Julia?".    

(16) Reviews - the government seems to have "forever reviews"...givin' perception that they prefer catering to consultants, public servants and others highly paid...whilst taking forever to pass bills & get the work on the ground, at the coalface done. A distortion by the media...but the government contribute to it.

(17) Spending. Including waste. The media & Coalition have used the GFC 2 scare effectively. And the distortions re: BER. And insulation scheme repairs. And cost of NBN.

(18) Under-spruiked accomplishments - Surviving the GFC & stimulus program was not promoted well enuff at the beginning...the public under pressure of work & family commitments have short memories. And can be manipulated by a "Goebbel's repetition" media & Abbott/Hockey/Turnbull etc. into believing the GFC response was over-stimulating & put up interest rates...whilst the real reason we survived well was China's demand re: resources...and the work of the previous Howard government. Distortions & lies again...but done effectively via media campaigns...unrelenting.

(19) Electricity prices - the privatisation by ALP states that gave the impression they can't be trusted on controlling prices...and might be just board sitters making money in the long run. The media has run w/ this and distorted aspects.

That's all I can think of for now.

This is not an attack on the PM. I'm just bein' realistic & pointing out some of the reasons why the government & the PM are on the nose. And the role of the media.

N'

nasking

September 5. 2011 06:35 PM

Tom of Melbourne

reb, you have to understand that in 2007 the public was insightful and intelligent. They made the right choice. It was a courageous decision and because they were capable of independent thinking.

Now, the public are incapable of thinking. They’ve been seduced by Murdoch and so have you!

Can’t you see that???

Tom of Melbourne

September 5. 2011 06:38 PM

reb of Hobart

Ad,

Can I suggest that you simply change your slogan to "Critising anything that the Coalition does, as well as the Mainstream Media and Defending Anything that Labor Does" and then your blog might have a bit more authenticity.

reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 06:46 PM

lyn

Hi Nsking

Brilliant post by you, thankyou so much.  Very educational
enjoyable read.  

Thankyou for your high quality genuine posts Nasking, you have me looking out for you everyday.

That's all I can think of for now. Pretty fantastic effort .

Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 5. 2011 06:49 PM

reb of Hobart

I'll have what Lyn's having.

reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 06:49 PM

nasking

Two more:

(20) constant, well-funded ad campaigns by corporations & groups attacking govt policy.

(21) Revolting protests. Media luvs 'em.

All adds to the negative labelling of the govt.

N'

nasking

September 5. 2011 06:52 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

Media watch should be good tonight:

jonaholmesMWJonathan Holmes

On #mediawatch tonight, Milne, Bolt, Michael Smith: 3 Amigos, one story but only 2 were News Ltd

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 5. 2011 06:53 PM

Jason

reb,
   "Can I suggest that you simply change your slogan to "Critising anything that the Coalition does, as well as the Mainstream Media and Defending Anything that Labor Does" and then your blog might have a bit more authenticity."

blah blah blah! white noise if I ever heard it!

Jason

September 5. 2011 06:54 PM

nasking

Cheers Lyn.

N'

nasking

September 5. 2011 07:38 PM

reb of Hobart

I think the most disappointing thing about The Political Sword is that they claim to occupy a space where they promise to hold politicians and commentators to account, but then fail to see their own inherent left wing bias.

They focus purely on the right-wing media, which is all very well, but when anyone seeks to point this out to them, they are immediately targeted as being either victims of the right-wing media “conspiracy” and/or simply have those comments deleted from the site altogether.

In that respect, and it’s an important one, they are simply guilty of the same crimes that they level against the right wing media, of censrorship and bias.

The irony seems lost on them.

reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 07:50 PM

Sir Ian Crisp

I see that Lyn's apostrophe machine needs repairing....AGAIN.

J guy, at last you have discovered the Australian Constitution. Anything in that blasted document that refers to the right of the elected government to deal with aliens as it sees fit? Please inform the debate.

More calls for you to declare your bias AA. I told you last year to stop your pretense of even-handedness. Come on and 'fess up; you're in thrall to the ALP.

Sir Ian Crisp

September 5. 2011 07:57 PM

reb of Hobart

Sir Ian Crisp,

I wouldn't mind the bias, it's the false pretence that somehow things here are free from bias here, while pointing out the (supposedly) bias that exists elsewhere that irks me. And yet the moderator chooses to delete comments that highlight this hypocrisy...



reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 07:59 PM

nasking

I recommend Political Sworders don't bite. As usual reb the touchy one is tarring all w/ the same brush and attempting to undermine the reputation of another blog in order to get attention for his own.

Tom often plays the role of stirrer and then attack dog sidekick.

Ignore them. They are acting like petty trolls...purposely adding little but criticism of the blog...w/ the odd so called rational comment to try and persuade readers they are bona fide.

Ad astra,
I hope the list I made helps w/ a future post.

N'

nasking

September 5. 2011 08:00 PM

Jason

reb,
   Your complaint is duly noted and if mr Ban Ki Moon is still here make an appointment and tell him!

Jason

September 5. 2011 08:05 PM

Jason

Sir Ian,
       It probably doesn't! but then again a "Prime Minister" isn't mentioned either. Your point?

Jason

September 5. 2011 08:05 PM

reb of Hobart

LOL!

How predictable that anyone who holds a dissenting view here is labelled as a "troll".

Enjoy the cool aid folks..

You lot deserve each other......

reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 08:18 PM

reb of Hobart

"They are acting like petty trolls...purposely adding little but criticism of the blog...w/ the odd so called rational comment to try and persuade readers they are bona fide."

Ah,No.

Simply venturing an opinion that goes against theb "group think" mentality here that everything Julia does is marvellous and that the poor polls are all the fault of the media.

I mean really Nasking, calling me a troll? Is that what you've been reduced to...?

reb of Hobart

September 5. 2011 08:31 PM

Ad astra reply

Nasking
You have given us much solid food for thought.  Thank you.

To all who don’t like TPS
Try another blog site.  If what we say here offends you, go elsewhere.

Ad astra reply

September 5. 2011 08:33 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
I'm retiring to enjoy my favourite evening's ABC TV.

I'll be watching Media Watch especially Lyn.

Ad astra reply

September 5. 2011 08:38 PM

nasking

You have given us much solid food for thought.  Thank you.

Yer welcome Ad. Yer post motivated me. As did some of the more useful & relevant comments. Thnx.

Have an enjoyable night Ad, Lyn & others.
I'll be doin' the same as Ad. Watchin' the ABC.

N'

nasking

September 5. 2011 08:39 PM

Tom of Melbourne

It sad is that blog owners think they are entitled to publish their opinions in the public domain and they can be free of fact and beyond criticism. Factual comments can be deleted. History removed

The insults from like-minded types though, go unnoticed.

That’s really sad, and quite pathetic.

But amusing.

Tom of Melbourne

September 5. 2011 08:44 PM

Acerbic Conehead

Reb,
The reality is that Gillard and Co are simply not as competent at managing the media as the Coalition are.

This reads to me as if there is an essential dimension missing, ie the nature of power.

If only the media was a tabula rasa upon which all sides could equally engrave their message.

I see the media as being a bit like one of those dual-control cars you use when you are learning to drive.

So, the instructor fronts up and demands the fee for the one-hour lesson up-front.  No big deal, you think, and happily hand over the dosh.

There’s no small talk on offer, so you soon learn to shut up and follow the instructions, as robotically delivered.

You’re told to take the next left, but that’s the street where your ex- (who recently gave you the flick) lives and you don’t want him/her to see you, in case they think you’re a stalker.  So, you miss that turn and take the next one.  A mild bollocking is administered in your direction by the instructor.

Then, you are caught behind a refugee from the Convoluted 2GB Convoy, doing 50 in their campervan in a 60 zone.  You do the right thing and safely overtake.  However, in so doing, you accelerate to just over 70. An even stronger rebuke issues from the instructor.

Shortly afterwards, a few hundred metres down the road, and you have only been out with this person for about 15 minutes, you come to a red light.  You do everything by the book, and stop in the inside lane.  In the outside lane, however, one of your mates pulls up, so you wind down the window and start to have a good old chin-wag.  The conversation, unfortunately, gets in the way of your concentration and you miss the green light.  The instructor goes berko.  He/she takes over the controls and drives you back to your place, ranting and raving all the way about “how irresponsible the youth of today are!”  And, to add insult to injury, the fascist won’t even give you a discount for not being out for the whole hour.

It’s the Golden Rule: he/she who has the gold, makes the rules.  Sheesh!

Acerbic Conehead

September 5. 2011 10:46 PM

Casablanca

Beware of Abbotts bearing gifts!

Anthony Abbott has put a major wedge on the table not to mention a continuation of off-shoring of asylum seekers. Not good.

Casablanca

September 5. 2011 10:50 PM

Casablanca

There was an outbreak of civility on both sides of the panel tonight on Q&A not least of all from Tony Jones. What a pleasant change. Let's hope that we see a continuation of this outbreak.

Casablanca

September 5. 2011 11:25 PM

Casablanca

What is the voter voting for?

Norman Abjorensen looks into the mind of the Australian voter
Inside Story. 02 September 2011

http://inside.org.au/what-is-the-voter-voting-for/

The surveys show that the great majority of voters “know relatively little about politics and possess minimal factual knowledge about the operation of the political system.”

The new political cynics – the so-called “disaffected democrats” or “critical citizens” – now represent a majority in most of the advanced democracies, a key symptom of what has been termed the “democratic deficit.” This phenomenon is also evident here in Australia, but McAllister finds that public trust in government exhibits more complex patterns than found in most other countries.

Casablanca

September 5. 2011 11:47 PM

Feral Skeleton

Reb, and ToM,
    1. Free Speech does not=Hate Speech and villification. You guys started it, as I understand it, and I just injudiciously replied in kind. For which I offered an apology. You have not. What you have done is gotten onto your high horse and acted the wounded party about what I said about you, whilst blithely ignoring the vile comments(or so it was conveyed to me) that you made about me FIRST. Double standards, bald-faced lying and hypocrisy just about covers it for mine.
    2. I deleted both your comments and mine because I thought that they added nothing to the debate. That's my perogative as blog co-moderator. If you don't like it feel free to have a whinge about it on your own blog.
    3. Casting negative aspersions about the blog and about the motivations of those who post here, every time you turn up, is frankly tiresome and essentially an irrelevant argument because you may as well go around the blogosphere making the same claim for 9/10 of all the other blogs in the world. See you when you get back(in a few years)! If you are to be consistent, that is.
    4. Or, as you seem to have done above, when you finally let your attack dog off it's leash to run away, you can make thoughtful and on-topic comments here. Which will always be appreciated. On the other hand, feeble attempts at a bitchy one-liner dismissal of Ad Astra's deeply reflective work, is not welcome.

   The choice is yours guys.

Feral Skeleton

September 5. 2011 11:53 PM

Feral Skeleton

   Except for Sophie Mirabella's duplicitous hypocrisy about the numbers of Asylum Seekers from Nauru who eventually were settled in Australia(not including, deliberately, the numbers from Manus Island and Christmas Island, which just shows what a schmuck she is), and the fact I nearly fell off my chair when Clive Palmer went into bat for Onshore Processing of Asylum Seekers(I still like the Regional Hub approach, though), made for a quiet enjoyable Q&A. I also think that Sophie Mirabella must have been warned not to butt in and talk over other panellists because she seemed strangely quiet.
  I also loved the woman who, after Sophie went off with her political rhetoric about how the Gillard government always want to fight and be nasty in parliament, said, "Why don't you tell Tony Abbott to stop it too?" Or wtte. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 5. 2011 11:55 PM

Feral Skeleton

  Oh, and reb, don't count all your "They never criticise the Labor Government" chickens until they are hatched next time. Wink

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 12:17 AM

Casablanca

jane@September 5. 2011 04:15 PM

[Abbott] has now denied saying he would cut $70bn in spending to fund his absurd Direct Action policy, only to be contradicted by Andrew Robb.

<a href=www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-fn7x8me2-1226129281582>;

Andrew Robb said, "We are looking at even the cost of rental, of accommodation, we are going down to every level."

Can someone remind Robb that it was John Fahey, Finance Minister in the Howard Government who sold off many many government premises to the private sector. This forced government departments to rent back premises that they have previously owned and occupied, in some cases for decades. Fahey also outsourced the whole function of the leasing and re-furbishment of properties.

Casablanca

September 6. 2011 12:42 AM

jane

It sad is that blog owners think they are entitled to publish their opinions in the public domain and they can be free of fact and beyond criticism. Factual comments can be deleted. History removed

Blog owners are entitled to publish their opinions on their own blogs, ToM: they own the blog and they don't have to tailor it to your opinions and prejudices.

If you want a blog that only panders to you, start your own.

FS, I also quite enjoyed QandA tonight. And seeing Mirabella with her nasty gob shut, instead of doing her usual Anal Jones impressions was excellent.

I was gobsmacked too when Clive Palmer came out in favour of onshore processing.

I don't buy all the phony concern for the boat arrivals, either; the places they have fled are equally or more dangerous than the boat journey here. AFAIC, the government should cut the crap and crank up onshore processing.

jane

September 6. 2011 01:25 AM

jane

But Casablanca, you mustn't criticise the Liars Party, they can do no wrong. And it isn't polite to draw attention to their lies, um non core truths and dodgy deals.

jane

September 6. 2011 02:58 AM

Casablanca

Activist judges give mixed signals. Gerard Henderson
SMH September 6, 2011


Gerard Henderson has defended the PM against the criticism of her by Justice Philip McMurdo, on behalf of the Judicial Conference of Australia, in relation to the Malaysian High Court matter.

'such criticism is over the top. Judges constantly comment on actions of the executive government as well as legislation passed by the Parliament. It is only reasonable to assume that, on other occasions, members of the executive and parliamentarians will see cause to comment on judicial decisions.

The problem with an activist High Court is no one can be sure where the action stops.

Read more: www.smh.com.au/.../...-signals-20110905-1ju51.html



Casablanca

September 6. 2011 06:30 AM

nasking

I also think that Sophie Mirabella must have been warned not to butt in and talk over other panellists because she seemed strangely quiet.

Feral,
I noticed same.
It was refreshing to see a government representative, Greg Combet in this instance, be offered a chance to put their case forward on some issues & push some of the accomplishments w/out bein' interrupted constantly by hosts & opposition figures. Kudos to Jones for that.

Furhermore, I'm not sure the "more productivity" & "wind back fair work legislation" bit was goin' down all that well w/ the audience...which may have kept Mirabella & Palmer quieter. The Coalition may have overreached on these issues based on their ears being primarily tuned to the bosses' whinges.

I was a wee bit suss of Palmer regardin' his "onshore detention" stance...bit of machiavellian stuff goin' on there methinks...but...I did get the feelin' there has been a shift in public perception of the asylum seeker issue.

Kinda ironic tho that Palmer was bein' clapped for the stance The Greens, a couple of Laborites, and many a refugee advocate, and a few of us bloggers have taken for a good long time. However, if he really does have that view then good on him.

BTW Feral, good onya...it takes a big person to acknowledge a mistake and apologise. Even Howard couldn't do it where necessary in his grandiose book.

N'    

nasking

September 6. 2011 06:34 AM

nasking

BTW, found Jessica Irvine from SMH to be a highly rational commentator. She did a decent job on Q&A.

Howes improved as the show went on. I really started listening to him on some manufacturing-related issues later in the show.

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 06:34 AM

jj

Newspoll shows that she is winning in at least one race against Abbott... who can make the most unpopular leader of a major political party in history! Go Gillard go, go Gillard go, gooo Gilard!

jj

September 6. 2011 07:18 AM

Jaeger

So LimitedNewsPoll confirms that unhinging and conservative panic (mining tax, carbon pricing scheme, media inquiry?) are at an all time high; big whoop.  

Jaeger

September 6. 2011 07:32 AM

lyn



TODAY’S LINKS


Bad News: Robert Manne on Murdoch's Australian, The Monthly
Robert Manne investigates Murdoch’s lead political voice here, the Australian newspaper, and how it shapes and distorts the national debate. In this studio interview, Robert Manne speaks to Nick Feik about his provocative new essay.
http://www.themonthly.com.

Australia’s media concentration bad for democracy, Jay Fletcher, Green left Weekly
A poll commissioned by new online campaign NewsStand found 61% of Australian people agreed a “public inquiry into the Australian media
is necessary so the public can better understand the relationship between politicians, corporations and media outlets”.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/48707

Power without responsibility: Rupert Murdoch's Australian,Robert Manne, ABC
he has discovered how to use the 70 per cent of the national and statewide press he owns to ensure that the values drawn from his right-wingpolitical philosophy remain dominant within the political mainstream.
http://www.abc.net.au

The most important issue of the week, part one, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless
The only thing that gets in the way of the traditions of journalism is the future of journalism, and as the latterdims you can only wonder at the sheer puffery that exists around the former
http://andrewelder.blogspot.com

We're All Squirming And Suffering Together, Adam Brereton, New Matilda
The nation’s political commentators, licking their lips, report the latest scuttlebutt and speculation from one anonymous twerp after another."Tell me your dirty secrets," they whisper. "Who will it be? Shorten? Smith? Swan? Who cares that they’re only on 5 per cent, we neeeeeed it!
http://newmatilda.com

That’s not what anonymity is for, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison
I’m not going to bother commenting on the nauseatingly credulous “reporting” today portraying the Liberals’ promise to vote for their own nasty, expensive, counterproductive offshore processing policy as some kind of generous offer to Labor
http://blogs.crikey.com.

Doing a deal with Abbott? , Gary Sauer-Thompson, Public Opinion
Nauru and in Papua New Guinea---a Pacific solution Mark II.This policy is being used as part of the background scratching
of the conservative noise machine with the Murdoch media setting the agenda for regime change.
http://www.sauer-thompson.com

Government’s No. 1 legal adviser takes centre stage,Angela Priestley,The Power Index
declaring he detested the phrase "judicial activism" and that "it's nonsense to say a judge doesn't make law". Common law
, he argued at the time, must evolve as society evolves and consequently adapted via the decisions of judges.
http://www.thepowerindex.com.

Opportunities sprout from the Malaysian Solution ashes, Mungo MacCallam, The Drum
Tony Abbott would demand total capitulation and a return to the Pacific Solution as the price of his support. It is unlikely that Gillard and her colleagues could stomach that shit sandwich. So, where to from here?
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2870858.html

David Manne vows to fight the 'Nauru Solution' .. and the BBC's Nick Bryant: Why I'm belting the Australia I love ,Nicole Chvastek , ABC
Tony Abbott is trying to lure Julia Gillard into another Pacific Solution but the lawyer who shut down the Malaysian option in the
lHigh Court told Jon Faine he’s ready to do it all again if the government considers Nauru for offshore processing of asylum seekers.
http://blogs.abc.net.au

Walking straight into it, The Piping Shrike
Imagine if the High Court had handed down a similar decision to Howard in 2001 or 2002. There would have been accusations of being soft on terrorismand misguided laxness on the safety of Australia’ borders. From Gillard we have had little but a lawyer’s technical argument of re-writing the termsof the Migration Act,
http://www.pipingshrike.com

Abbott offers what, Min, Café Whispers
Politically there is very little chance that the government would side with Abbott against the Greens whose
support they need for effective government
http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/

Essential: we trust Negus and Oakes, but who’s Andrew Bolt?, Jason Whittaker, Crikey
Bolt’s national TV profile — after quitting the ABC’s Insiders he now hosts a Sunday morning platform on Channel Ten — hasn’t
done much to boost his fame: almost half (48%) said they didn’t know who he was
http://www.crikey.com.au

Asylum seekers … just two long-term options available, Jenny Norvick, Crikey
Nauru was never a deterrent to boat arrivals and it had the same role in the scheme of things that ChristmasIsland does now. Whether it is a signatory to the UN Convention is irrelevant as the government of Nauru had no role,
http://www.crikey.com.au

, It's official, Rudd saved Australia, Alex Dunnin , Financial Standard Online
In time we will return to constructive conversations like this, but not today for now Australia is gripped by partisan 'take no prisoners' politics that permeates almost every aspect of policy discussion
http://www.financialstandard.com.

Is Glenn Milne in the News Ltd naughty corner?, Tom Cowie, The Power Index
Bolt came to Milne's defence on Saturday, calling for an uprising from his blog's true believers: "This shutting downof debate is sinister and shameful. Had John Howard tried it, there would be a riot in the Left.
http://www.thepowerindex.com.au

Treasury says Liberal-National carbon plan ‘to cost double’, David Twomey, Eco News
The coalition has stated its direct action plan, funded entirely from the federal budget, would cost $10.5 billion to 2020
http://econews.com.

Speeding up the NBN roll out, Paul Budde, The Budde Blog
We lost eleven years of progress during the time the Coalition was in government, as its priority was toprivatise Telstra at all costs, without taking into account competition, innovation and consumer prices.
http://www.buddeblog.com.

Turnbull starts the long journey back for Coalition’s NBN alternative, Tony Brown, Informa
by the time of the next election, set for late 2013, the NBN FTTH network will already cover 1.9 million homes – 16% of the planned
total – and an estimated 1.1 million homes will be using the network. In other words, it will be a different beast than the embryonic entity it is right now.
http://blogs.informatandm.com

Libyan rebels to start killing each other’, Oz House Alt News
According to Rall, the divisions are fueled by the fact that many of the members of the National Transitional Council are former
Gaddafi officials. Radical factions within the Libyan opposition are not going to accept them, Rall warned.
http://ozhouse.orgh-

Gillard's support dives to new low,ABC
As the Government searches for a solution to the dilemma thrown up by last week's High Court decision, Newspoll
has Julia Gillard's personal support hitting a new low of just 23 per cent.
http://www.abc.net.au

lyn

September 6. 2011 07:38 AM

nasking

If Julia Gillard was sadly forced to stand down I would prefer Ruddy over Smith. I like Smith...but so do News Ltd & unknown gamblers.

He's a polite, competent, careful in his approach, attractive to many a voter, an articulate character...but very softly spoken and prone to a certain nervousness under pressure. I fear that News Ltd if they didn't get the deal they wanted, would take him apart over time. However, he does have alot of positives...it would be helpful to get more WA votes. Not KNOWN by a huge amount of public.

WHEREAS,

Ruddy has a high profile. Took the right approach to Libya. Big on healthcare & education reform.

Gets on w/ cow cockies...could bring in alot of QLD votes, particularly if the LNP win in QLD state-wise.

Has had time to learn from mistakes.

W/ the help of Ken Henry he moved quickly on the GFC & got us thru better than most countries.

He's a great "on the ground" campaigner.

Has a lovely, intelligent, hard working wife & family. He's digged by Christians...and trusted by many in the Muslim & other religious communities.

Superb in relation to overseas aid.

Has reached across the aisle on numerous occasions.

Knows China, speaks Mandarin and is not just a China kowtower.

Obama digs Rudd. Gets on well w/ many UN & EU diplomats. Pushes nuclear treaty.

A maverick. Suspicious of factions & too much union power. Not from NSW.

Was right to push the mining tax (Libs once again demonstrate their hypocrisy by raising royalties in NSW).

Ruddy is KNOWN...has been thru the media grilling mill.

Just a few points.

N'


nasking

September 6. 2011 07:42 AM

nasking

Thnx Lyn,
great job. Look forward to goin' thru the links ya offer up. Smile
Yer the best.

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 08:19 AM

Feral Skeleton

Nas,
    All I have to say wrt to the Kevin11 polling is
1. News Ltd built him up and then they knocked him and the ALP down. What's to say that they won't do it again?
2. All the Kevin vs Julia poll says to me is 'Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and Familiarity breeds contempt.'
3. As Michael Rowland correctly pointed out in his interview with Newspoll CEO, Martin O'Shanessy, what real point is there in Newspoll conducting a beauty contest between Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard when there is absolutely no possibility that the Labor Caucus will even consider bringing him back? It just seems mischievous by Newspoll to keep asking the question.

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 08:21 AM

Feral Skeleton

Nas,
     Yes, I do know how to say 'Sorry' and move on. Unlike some. I think you call it behaving like an adult.

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 08:22 AM

Feral Skeleton

jj,
   Do you know how puerile you look when you make comments like the one above? If you don't, then you should.

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 08:30 AM

Ad astra reply

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 08:32 AM

Feral Skeleton

PatriciaWA,
           Yes, with the right camera angle, the PM can be very photogenic. It's a pity the essentially sexist snappers out there always look to highlight the negatives.
   In comparison, I can't remember anyone either being allowed to, or choosing to, take a photo of John Howard which highlighted his hearing aid, or even casually and inadvertantly showing it.
   Might I also add about John Winston Howard, he should have foregone the Lasik eye surgery because, without his glasses he looks even more like a LOM(Little Old Man), and diminishes his air of authority.
   Wait I can hear the termagents already, "Well, she would say that wouldn't she?", and, "All you can ever be is mean to Liberal politicians", or, "Leave him alone, he's not in politics anymore". To which I will pre-emptively reply, "So what? It's my opinion, and like Big Bad John Hartigan says, everyone is entitled to one without reference to the feelings of the person whose feelings they may hurt." Laughing

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 08:36 AM

Jaeger

I'm still having trouble with the links, unfortunately.  I also tried Internet Explorer, so it doesn't appear to be a browser issue.

Again, lots of truncated links - only two actually took me to the intended article!

www.themonthly.com (should be www.themonthly.com.au)
blogs.crikey.com (should be blogs.crikey.com.au) www.thepowerindex.com (should be www.thepowerindex.com.au)
www.financialstandard.com (should be www.financialstandard.com.au)
econews.com (should be econews.com.au)
www.buddeblog.com (should be www.buddeblog.com.au)

Jaeger

September 6. 2011 08:38 AM

Jaeger

One more (previewed by mistake):

http://ozhouse.orgh-/ (should be http://ozhouse.org/)

Jaeger

September 6. 2011 08:43 AM

nasking

Feral,
you make some good points. I'm just throwing stuff up so it helps Ad put a post together...and gives visitors from the government, if we get any, ideas on how to deal w/ the media & fight the next election.

As I said previously, I'm willing to support PM Gillard and generally think it's a good idea to stand & fight...show consistency, grit and backbone.

I just worry occasionally that if Gillard's popularity continues to fall, yet the government is able to get certain important legislation thru, that legislation will have a negative aura that will be taken all the way to the next election...AND...it's kinda sad that so much important legislation that started under Rudd will not see him havin' the opportunity to get it thru. But such is life I guess. And as long as it gets thru, it will help the community...and be difficult for the Coalition to unwind.

One thing that has always concerned about Rudd is the Chris Mitchell's baby godfather bit. And his visits to Murdoch in NY...and hangin' out w/ various News Ltd types. Will he have learnt that doin' a Blair, as in cosying up to those pseudo fascists, is just not on in the public's eye...and will cause him grief in the future. Not healthy for democracy either.

At least we know Julia isn't a big fan of News Ltd.

Anyway, let's wish the PM a strong Pacific Islands time eh?

Feral,
great speech by Obama in America eh? Labour Day...all fired up. First time in ages. Hope it's a sign of things to come and not just triangulation stuff.

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 09:06 AM

nasking

Thnx Lyn, useful link:

Australia’s media concentration bad for democracy

A poll commissioned by new online campaign NewsStand found 61% of Australian people agreed a “public inquiry into the Australian media is necessary so the public can better understand the relationship between politicians, corporations and media outlets”.

NewsStand, backed by GetUp, then launched an online petition on August 11 calling for parliament to “publicly scrutinise the media landscape as a whole”, which quickly gathered almost 30,000 signatures.

Online petition site Avaaz.org also launched a similar petition demanding a “full inquiry into Australian media’s practices including far-reaching investigations of Rupert Murdoch’s News Limited.”

Professor Wendy Bacon, an investigative journalist with the Australian Centre for Independent Journalism, told Green Left Weekly the proposal for an investigation of media practice in Australia had come at a crucial time.

After the worldwide exposure of illegal and unethical practices in Rupert Murdoch’s news empire, particularly the phone-hacking scandal that led to the end of Britain’s News of the World, Australians could not assume its media were immune.

Bacon said: “You’ve got computer hacking allegations in the US, and Italy, a phone hacking scandal that was correctly described by 4 Corners as a ‘criminal enterprise’ and people want to put their head in the sand in Australia and think it’s not like that here?”

She said the growing concentration of media, as well as the powerful influence of who owns it, needed serious attention.

“The problem with media concentration and ownership became obvious when the News Limited scandal happened. If the Murdochs decided to close down outlets in Australia to hold up their profits, smaller and regional areas could lose their primary source of information.

“That is bad for democracy, but it makes this an important time to now push grassroots campaigns for a more diverse range of media."


more here:

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/48707

Bring on that media inquiry. If it can happen under Tories in the UK, why not an ALP-led govt here?

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 09:08 AM

lyn



TODAY’S LINKS  


Bad News: Robert Manne on Murdoch's Australian, The Monthly
Robert Manne investigates Murdoch’s lead political voice here, the Australian newspaper, and how it shapes and distorts the national debate.
In this studio interview, Robert Manne speaks to Nick Feik about his provocative new essay.
www.themonthly.com.au/bad-news-robert-manne-murdochs-australian-3830


Australia’s media concentration bad for democracy, Jay Fletcher, Green left Weekly
A poll commissioned by new online campaign NewsStand found 61% of Australian people agreed a “public inquiry into the Australian media
is necessary so the public can better understand the relationship between politicians, corporations and media outlets”.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/48707

Power without responsibility: Rupert Murdoch's Australian,Robert Manne, ABC
he has discovered how to use the 70 per cent of the national and statewide press he owns to ensure that the values drawn from his right-wing
political philosophy remain dominant within the political mainstream.
www.abc.net.au/.../3309666.htm

The most important issue of the week, part one, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless
The only thing that gets in the way of the traditions of journalism is the future of journalism, and as the latter
dims you can only wonder at the sheer puffery that exists around the former
http://andrewelder.blogspot.com

We're All Squirming And Suffering Together, Adam Brereton, New Matilda
The nation’s political commentators, licking their lips, report the latest scuttlebutt and speculation from one anonymous twerp after another."Tell me your dirty secrets," they whisper. "Who will it be? Shorten? Smith? Swan? Who cares that they’re only on 5 per cent, we neeeeeed it!
newmatilda.com/.../were-all-squirming-and-suffering-together

That’s not what anonymity is for, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison
I’m not going to bother commenting on the nauseatingly credulous “reporting” today portraying the Liberals’ promise to vote for their own nasty, expensive, counterproductive offshore processing policy as some kind of generous offer to Labor
http://blogs.crikey.com.

doing a deal with Abbott? , Gary Sauer-Thompson, Public Opinion
Nauru and in Papua New Guinea---a Pacific solution Mark II.This policy is being used as part of the background scratching
of the conservative noise machine with the Murdoch media setting the agenda for regime change.
http://www.sauer-thompson.com

Government’s No. 1 legal adviser takes centre stage,Angela Priestley,The Power Index
declaring he detested the phrase "judicial activism" and that "it's nonsense to say a judge doesn't make law". Common law
, he argued at the time, must evolve as society evolves and consequently adapted via the decisions of judges.
http://www.thepowerindex.com.

Opportunities sprout from the Malaysian Solution ashes, Mungo MacCallam, The Drum
Tony Abbott would demand total capitulation and a return to the Pacific Solution as the price of his support. It is unlikely that Gillard and her colleagues could stomach that shit sandwich. So, where to from here?
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2870858.html

David Manne vows to fight the 'Nauru Solution' .. and the BBC's Nick Bryant: Why I'm belting the Australia I love ,Nicole Chvastek , ABC
Tony Abbott is trying to lure Julia Gillard into another Pacific Solution but the lawyer who shut down the Malaysian option in the
lHigh Court told Jon Faine he’s ready to do it all again if the government considers Nauru for offshore processing of asylum seekers.
blogs.abc.net.au/.../...lting-the-australia-i.html

Walking straight into it, The Piping Shrike
Imagine if the High Court had handed down a similar decision to Howard in 2001 or 2002. There would have been accusations of being soft on terrorismand misguided laxness on the safety of Australia’ borders. From Gillard we have had little but a lawyer’s technical argument of re-writing the termsof the Migration Act,
http://www.pipingshrike.com

Abbott offers what, Min, Café Whispers
Politically there is very little chance that the government would side with Abbott against the Greens whose
support they need for effective government
http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/

Essential: we trust Negus and Oakes, but who’s Andrew Bolt?, Jason Whittaker, Crikey
Bolt’s national TV profile — after quitting the ABC’s Insiders he now hosts a Sunday morning platform on Channel Ten — hasn’t
done much to boost his fame: almost half (48%) said they didn’t know who he was
http://www.crikey.com.au

Asylum seekers … just two long-term options available, Jenny Norvick, Crikey
Nauru was never a deterrent to boat arrivals and it had the same role in the scheme of things that Christmas
Island does now. Whether it is a signatory to the UN Convention is irrelevant as the government of Nauru had no role,
www.crikey.com.au/.../

, It's official, Rudd saved Australia, Alex Dunnin , Financial Standard Online
In time we will return to constructive conversations like this, but not today for now Australia is gripped by partisan 'take no prisoners' politics
that permeates almost every aspect of policy discussion
www.financialstandard.com.au/news/view/12313665/

Is Glenn Milne in the News Ltd naughty corner?, Tom Cowie, The Power Index
Bolt came to Milne's defence on Saturday, calling for an uprising from his blog's true believers: "This shutting down
of debate is sinister and shameful. Had John Howard tried it, there would be a riot in the Left.
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../20110905364

Treasury says Liberal-National carbon plan ‘to cost double’, David Twomey, Eco News
The coalition has stated its direct action plan, funded entirely from the federal budget, would cost $10.5 billion to 2020
econews.com.au/.../

Speeding up the NBN roll out, Paul Budde, The Budde Blog
We lost eleven years of progress during the time the Coalition was in government, as its priority was to
privatise Telstra at all costs, without taking into account competition, innovation and consumer prices.
www.buddeblog.com.au/.../

Turnbull starts the long journey back for Coalition’s NBN alternative, Tony Brown, Informa
by the time of the next election, set for late 2013, the NBN FTTH network will already cover 1.9 million homes – 16% of the planned
total – and an estimated 1.1 million homes will be using the network. In other words, it will be a different beast than the embryonic entity it is right now.
http://blogs.informatandm.com

Libyan rebels to start killing each other’, Oz House Alt News
According to Rall, the divisions are fueled by the fact that many of the members of the National Transitional Council are former
Gaddafi officials. Radical factions within the Libyan opposition are not going to accept them, Rall warned.
http://ozhouse.orgh-

lyn

September 6. 2011 09:11 AM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        Sometimes John Winston Howard lets his guard down, and so he did when he was interviewed byAndrew Bolt, I think it was, last weekend. Then again, knowing how Machiavellian Howard is, maybe it was a pre-emptive strike. Anyway, he said about the Asylum Seeker issue that he thought that Julia Gillard was just tidying up after the mess Kevin Rudd created and left for her. Now, I know he followed that by saying that, therefore, Kevin Rudd shouldn't have dismantled the Pacific Solution, which I don't agree with him about, however, in amongst the merde was that salient point which I think, in his quiter moments, when Hyacinth isn't acting like a flea in his ear, he acknowledges. That is, that Kevin Rudd left Julia Gillard one big mess to clean up. Therefore he has some sympathy for her because of that. I don't think  that his opinion would be isolated to the Asylum Seeker issue either, just quietly.
   Which amazes me just how quickly how those polled for Newspoll have forgotten the chaos that reigned when Kevin was PM. The Opposition would thus get out their 'Kevin O'Lemon' lemons sooner than you could say, 'Lickety split!'.

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 09:23 AM

lyn

Hi Ad


I have checked every link, they were nearly all wrong.

So far it looks like just Pure Poison and Oz House to change.

Would you mind changing those 2 for me please, and deleting the firt lot of Today's Links.

Thankyou so much Ad  sorry this has happened this morning, don't ask

me what it was,because gremlins got me, and they are still here.

Pure Poison:
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../


Oz House:
ozhouse.org/.../

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 6. 2011 09:25 AM

nasking

Memories:

NAURU
No to a Nauru sequel of hunger strikes, suicide attempts and deportations back to death

As part of its election campaign, the Liberal Party championed the re–opening of the Nauru detention
centre and stood proudly side by side with Nauru’s Foreign Minister Dr Keke, who proclaimed ‘there
were a lot of negative perceptions created that were unfounded….the Asylum Seekers were treated
very well [on Nauru]’ and goes on further to say Nauru does not even need to sign the Refugee
Convention.

All the community fears of returning asylum seekers to Nauru are in fact well founded
and it is shameful that the Liberal Party would seek a sequel to the human suffering and despair that
was created on Nauru.

The reasons to disregard the consideration of reopening the Nauru detention centre are compelling.

Lack of capacity
Around 1,500 Asylum seekers were processed on Nauru. This stretched the small Nauru community
of around 10,000 people far beyond its means, as Nauru faced its own economic and financial
problems.

Nauru lacked adequate medical infrastructure and failed to meet the often complex
medical requirements of those seeking asylum.

At least 40 people were airlifted to Australia from
Nauru from medical treatment during the previous use of Nauru as a detention centre.

In August
2002 a 26 year old asylum seeker without any known medical problems died on Nauru.


Mental health impact
Many of those previously detained on Nauru suffered serious mental health issues as a result of
detention. A number were assessed at "grave risk" and were taken to Australia because of their
deteriorating mental health while numerous incidents of self harm and detainees suffering from
depression and psychological conditions were reported.
.
In 2003, 45 people took part in a serious hunger strike. 284 men, women and children remain
imprisoned after 29 months on Nauru (fifteen of the 93 children are babies born on Nauru). Out of
sheer desperation, 45 men went on a hunger strike for 22 days.

An Australian Government delegation
sent in the wake of the hunger strike recommended additional funding to the struggling Nauru Health
Services but was specifically directed NOT to assess the health and mental health services of the
detained population.

The Health Alliance/AMA team of medical experts was refused visas to assist the Nauru Hospital during the hunger strike.

Asylum Seekers were prevented from accessing
adequate legal advice and information about their rights of appeal.

Deported back to danger
In 2006 the Edmund Rice Centre tracked 41 returned Afghan asylum seekers from Nauru and finds
39 were in perilous conditions.

Their report ‘Deported Back to Danger II’’ detailed that the Australian Government secured the return of more than half the asylum seekers on Nauru in 2003 by a "mixture
of inducements and threats".

The report follows an earlier account by the centre that up to nine asylum seekers and several of their children were killed on return to Afghanistan from Nauru.

In 2007, the average cost for maintaining facilities on Nauru was $2million per month.

Let us learn
from our past and have no sequel to this injustice.


www.asrc.org.au/.../no-offshore-processing.pdf

Australia making a good reputation for itself across the world.

Abbott and his swaggering & posing...taking Australia into the black hole. Not unlike Bush & America.

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 09:29 AM

TalkTurkey

Jane
I really dig your feistiness!

You don't happen to have hair that's an overmatch for Rebekah Brooks's do you? Smile www.google.com.au/url

Jane and the Dragon from Weta Studios NZ is the BEST (children + adults) TV series EVER imo, artwork and animation and morality stories . . .

Jane is noble Jane, Abbortt is lowlife Gunther!

Girls can be Knights of the Sword OK!

Sir Lyn has a big list of them!

TalkTurkey

September 6. 2011 09:31 AM

nasking

Detention on Nauru according to Tony:

Nauru 'a bit like boarding school' says Opposition Leader Tony Abbott Ben Packham From: Herald Sun August 11, 2010

TONY Abbott has compared the experiences of asylum seekers sent to Nauru to that of boarding school students.
As the Coalition pressed its case to reopen Australia's detention centre on Nauru, the Opposition Leader defended conditions for detainees there under the Howard government.

He said asylum seekers had enjoyed the "run of the island", and were required to return to the centre only in the evening.

"I think the worst you could say about it is that it's a bit like school, boarding school," he told Nova FM.

"It's certainly not like a jail."


www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-fn5ko0pw-1225903700498

Boarding school eh? Won't that go down well w/ the abused at boarding school?

I had a gay mate who was harrassed continually there. He died depressed nr Dubbo in the late 90s.

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 09:36 AM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        Didn't Kevin Rudd get abused by the bullies at Boarding School, which he said coloured his opinion of the elites and their children for the rest of his life, forced him to beg his mother to take him away from the school, place him in the local Public School, and turn away from the family's natural inclination towards the National Party?

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 09:37 AM

Sue

Last night on Q&A just before the end. tony Jones approximately said the newspoll is in and not good for julia Gillard, Greg combet your comments please.
Combet responded by saying that as polls are frequent he was going to actually answer the question asked by the audience member as it was a much more important question.
Which is the point, it is the journalists that insist that a poll result is of news value.
Personally a poll for a Murdoch organisation run by a company that includes the name "News" dares the truth metre. On the otherhand I look forward to the revelations from tonights interviews by the UK parliamentary committee of News executives, executives that have been exposed as less than truthful.  

Sue

September 6. 2011 09:39 AM

Tom of Melbourne

Jane said – “Blog owners are entitled to publish their opinions on their own blogs, ToM: they own the blog and they don't have to tailor it to your opinions and prejudices.”


Indeed Jane, blog owners are entitled to publish their own opinions and prejudices. Nothing at all wrong with this.

In my opinion, criticism is warranted when-
•  The slogan of the blog is intended to provide a facade of impartiality (such as the slogan used here)
•  Factual comments are deleted (such as occurs here)
•  Contributors have a history of homophobic labelling, which is ignored by the blog administrator (such as has occurred here on successive occasions)

Blogs are an increasingly important part of the media, tehy are even more accessible then newspapers, the notion that any blog is beyond criticism is odd indeed.

Certainly this one is entitled to plenty.

Tom of Melbourne

September 6. 2011 09:41 AM

Feral Skeleton

Nas,
    Obama will have to give the speech of his life on Thursday, US time. I hope he has the fire in his belly again which saw him become the first African American man to become President of the United States. I note also that one of his main speechwriters, Jon Lovett, a comedy writer, has left his employ to return to Hollywood. I think that can only be a good thing because his speeches need less levity and more gravity, and hopefully, Jon Favreau will get more prominence as a result as I believe that those speeches that he helped write with the BPOTUS before he was elected were some of the best he has ever given.

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 09:47 AM

Feral Skeleton

Sue,
    I also thought it was particularly sleazy of Tony Jones to give Sophie Mirabella the last and second to last comments on Q&A last night. The laughable diatribe before he read the Newspoll results out and then again after Greg Combet's comment. Poor form by Tony Jones to give the Opposition such an obvious free kick, but nothing more than I would have expected. What is heartening to see though is that the media have instead of running Sophie's verbal diarrhoea spray, they have instead gone with Minister Combet's supportive comment about the PM.
   I was also happy to see Paul Howes slap down Clive Palmer when he tried to get away with calling the Prime Minister, "Julia What'shername". Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 09:55 AM

Sue

Agree Feral Skeleton
Also on Sophie did you notice that the audience actually laughed at Sophie, she also got that response when the show was in Albury.
For support she hangs about with the ranters, such as the yelling rabble outside albanese's office.

Sue

September 6. 2011 10:00 AM

Feral Skeleton

Tom of Melbourne,
                 Newspaper blogs moderate and edit comments all the time. They have every right to. We have every right to. If you don't like it, as Ad Astra said, there are a million other blogs you can go and comment on that may be more to your liking. However, I don't think you want to really because that is not your agenda.
  As for your precious comment that 'contributors have a history  of homophobic labelling' here on TPS. Well, I'm sorry but I grew up in a fair dinkum Aussie household where political correctness gone crazy was not the order of the day, amongst our extended family and all the homosexual friends we have had over the decades, who have also had robust senses of humour, and who could dish it out about themselves and their sexuality, as well as take it in good humour. What I did apologise for, as Nasking has correctly pointed out, was not making my comment in good humour. However, after the villification I received from you and your fellow Guttersnipes, which still has not been retracted and apology proffered as far as I know, then I can justifiably say that I had a right to get hot under the collar at that time. Which, as I say again, I apologised for later on when I cooled down, and which, I will add again, you, or anyone else who made those nasty comments, have not. I won't hold my breath to get an apology from such an obviously humourless and po-faced slimeball as yourself, who can dish it out but can't take it, either.

  Now, let that be the last word of hypocritical criticism from you, or I will moderate you again because, unless you contribute to the on-topic debates here, as Reb has, then you are not going to be part of our converstation. Whether that upsets your delicate sensibilities, or not.

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 10:01 AM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
I've corrected the two broken links on your special page: LYN'S DAILY LINKS.  They all now work.

Jaeger
All the links now work, at least on Safari.

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 10:04 AM

lyn

Hi Ad

Thankyou very much.

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 6. 2011 10:07 AM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        It seems, wrt Asylum Seeker processing,, that the Cabinet decided overnight to reject Nauru as a destination for Irregular Boat Arriving Asylum Seekers, and instead press on with trying to make the Malysian deal legally work, in so far as it would be the first Regional Processing Centre, under the auspices of the UNHCR.
   I still agree that this is the best option because, as the European President said yesterday, a regional solution is what works best. It works for Europe with it's far greater number of Boat Arrivals, and it should work for us too, here in SE Asia.

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 10:08 AM

Patricia WA

I think Q&A gave a better 'feel' for the real mood of the more informed section of our community last night, even on the right. They seemed conflicted, genuinely puzzled about what's happening to the country right now.   There was a real willingness to listen to the efforts of Combet and others to outline the real achievements of Julia Gillard's government.  True she was clearly unpopular, but there was much more derision directed at Mirabella's opinion that this was the worst government since federation.

I don't think people understand that bringing down Julia Gillard is the priority of the right and its media mates because that will bring down the government, Kevin Rudd along with it, no matter how popular he is in the false leadership stakes that News Ltd. keeps publishing as Newspoll gospel.

Thanks to Sue for raising that issue about the issue of Newspoll's credibility.  Or relevance.  Popularity/Approval ratings are hardly sound criteria for making decisions in a mature democracy.

  

Patricia WA

September 6. 2011 10:14 AM

Tom of Melbourne

Right, and as I pointed out - while the administrator of this site is willing to child contributors (such as me) for factual, but provocative comments, he is unwilling to show similar guidance to you, or to earlier contributors who immediately lapsed into homophobic labelling when I posted some comments in support of gay marriage.

But the precious administrator and sensitive supporters here believe they are entitled to lapse into this disgraceful name calling without consequence.

The fact is that this site goes nowhere near living up to the slogan it assigns itself.

Tom of Melbourne

September 6. 2011 10:17 AM

Patricia WA

PS  Looking at the last sentence of my comment above I should have said.

Personal popularity or approval ratings are hardly sound criteria for making leadership decisions in a recently elected government trying to achieve a major reform. Obviously they have some relevance during an election campaign.

Patricia WA

September 6. 2011 10:51 AM

Jean

Ah, it takes me back to simpler days, when the Coalition and its media mates were trying to throw out Whitlam (who can forget Billy Sneddon in 1972 saying the voters had made a terrible mistake, but all would be rectified as soon as possible?).
The spin was simpler, but just as effective, Everything the Labor government did was called a scandal. Whitlam had a sandwich for lunch? Ah, the sandwich-for-lunch scandal. There were, of course, a few genuine scandals, but they almost got lost in the crowd.

Jean

September 6. 2011 10:58 AM

Ad astra reply

Folks
Have you heard the news?  Newspoll was not good for Labor or Julia Gillard today.  Who would have predicted it after the great week they have had with everything going their way!  Anyway, it’s good that jj has filled us in as there was scarcely a mention of it on ABC this morning.

George Megalogenis said some time ago that the change of Newspoll intervals from monthly to fortnightly had changed the dynamic of polls substantially.  He believes fortnightly is too often.  I agree.  From being a reflection of public opinion when carried out at monthly intervals, it moves ever so subtly to a conditioning of public views when used fortnightly.  One Newspoll feeds into the next, and other polls feed into each other, so that each poll tends to habituate the public to the same view.  It is not surprising that results are similar. There is no solution to this as there are so many polls, and media outlets value them so much as news generators, that they will continue trotting them out as often as they can reasonably get away with it.

The other aspect to remember is that despite news outlets making dramatic stories out of what the electoral result would be if the poll results were replicated at an election, that is not what happens.  The media creates a fanciful scenario that is not reflective of reality, certainly at a Federal level.  You will recall in the latter days of the Howard Government some of the polls showed an even more extreme TPP situation than Labor faces now.  I can remember several polls where Labor was over 60 in the TPP and the Coalition under 40.  Yet we know that when it came to the 2007 election the results were quite close.  Labor won, but the Coalition was not decimated.  So journalists reporting that if the poll results were reflected at an election the Government would be all but wiped out, is disingenuous and misleading and serves only to make a dramatic news story and to feed into the next poll.

On Inside Story in Lyn's Links this morning there was an interesting piece What is the voter voting for?  by Norman Abjorensen

He concluded: "Much has changed, but in some ways much has remained the same. The voter remains as elusive, contrary and inscrutable as ever, lending further credence to the notion that politics is not a rational process."

This is what this piece argues: that voters’ views of the Government when presented with a set of questions related to the actions that have been taken by the Government (as was the case in the Essential poll), are different from their views when asked their voting preferences, and as Abjorensen suggests, when they actually cast their vote.  Rationality is replaced by unbridled emotion, much of it generated by the Coalition and media hype.

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 10:58 AM

2353

Another example of the failure of the current Governemtn to do anything.

www.abc.net.au/.../2872554

2353

September 6. 2011 11:06 AM

lyn

Hi 2353

Thankyou for your link, I am keeping that story.

The information will not be in the Murdoch papers.
The voters need to know.

Hospitals hitting waiting list targets
Posted September 06, 2011 08:07:17
Under a national partnership, the Commonwealth offered reward payments for the states and territories that reduced the number of patients waiting longer than recommended times for elective surgery.

CheersSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 6. 2011 11:18 AM

Ad astra reply

Jean
If this is your first visit to TPS, welcome to the family.  Do come again.  I see you remember that the hype we hear today is not new, but perhaps more extreme than in the Whitlam era.

Patricia WA
I am in accord with your assessment of Q&A last night, and with your comments about the invalidity of popularity ratings in making leadership decisions.  Prediction is hazardous, but I predict that Julia Gillard’s strength and toughness in the face of poor polls, Coalition condemnation and unremitting media negativity, will stand her in good stead and eventually become an attribute that will attract admiration from the public, and even grudging admiration by her opponents.

Folks
Can anyone explain to me why Tom of Melbourne continues to return to this blogsite when it clearly is anathema to him?

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 11:24 AM

nasking

Absolutely fascinating interview last nite by Lateline's Ali Moore w/ Crime author and screenwriter Lynda La Plante...I'm a fan of the murder mystery genre...and loved Plante's creation Jane Tennyson from Prime Suspect fame.

The following stood out for me:

ALI MOORE: Your most famous character is Jane Tennyson of course from the series Prime Suspect and she was originally played by Helen Mirren. And it's interesting because she was a very strong female character until the third series of Prime Suspect where she becomes an alcoholic. She basically falls apart. You didn't write that series. Would you have done that to Jane Tennyson?

LYNDA LA PLANTE: No. Never.

ALI MOORE: Why was that done, do you think?

LYNDA LA PLANTE: Um, I don't honestly know. I mean, at that point, it's very difficult - when you're a writer for hire and you don't agree with them saying, "We want more domestic life of Jane Tennyson. We want this and that," and I refused to do it.

And I most definitely would never have made her an alcoholic because she was based on a real-life policewoman. And that to me was an insult to the policewoman that had guided me through the original Prime Suspect script from the Day One. And I just - I think why create a character that is respected and broke a mould and then go, "Oh well, I'll smash it down, I'll make her an alcoholic."

And so it's very difficult. I mean, Jane Tennyson was brilliantly played by Helen Mirren. And I have nothing in that aspect to say against it. But I did find that - and also, there was another episode, I think, that actually went into the first case to prove that she'd made a mistake and you think, "Well aren't there enough stories out there that you don't need to do that?"...

ALI MOORE: Well of course you now have Anna Travis, who I guess is a very young Jane Tennyson. Young: is that the operative word? Was there pressure to create a younger character?

LYNDA LA PLANTE: No, there was never any pressure from me to create a sort of young, nubile Jane Tennyson. And that - it only happened because I was at a murder site and met a very young - and they call them the fast-track officers.

So unlike Jane Tennyson, Travis comes from university background, and so she would've been officer material very, very quickly. She'd have gone to officer training school. She would never have been in traffic, she would never have been in uniform and unlike Jane Tennyson, she would never have gone through Drug Squad, Flying Squad to Homicide.

So Travis was completely - had no intention of creating her. When - I was at a murder site when I'd been called to say, "Did I want to have a look at it?" And she was a very young police officer who came reeling out of the forensic tent, knocked me sideways because she couldn't take it. And one of the hardened police officers looked at me and he gave me a big wink and he said, "She's not going to last long."

ALI MOORE: Did she?

LYNDA LA PLANTE: The next - it would be about six months later, and there she was, different, she was changed. And I went up to here and said, "Do you remember me?" She said, "Yes, I remember you." She said, "Very embarrassed by that." She'd changed, she'd grown up. And I thought how interesting to go that length to actually see a young policewoman grow into Jane Tennyson...

ALI MOORE: Tell me about the sort of access you get and what you've seen.

LYNDA LA PLANTE: Well, the access is given to me because I don't take constant dramatic licence.

I mean, when you often see crime drama, you know, there's so many incongruities and falsehoods that you as the public are expected to accept. And I never could. And so I went with my problem and I said, "How do I get to this point?" So if it was forensic, or if it was pathologists, or an autopsy, I went through it with them and learnt exactly what happened. I mean, it was pretty gruesome at times, but I wanted it to be real.

I mean, if you - there's so many detective series on - CSI, Miami, New York. You name it. There's so many CSIs now. So people are very familiar with terms for forensic science.

But one of the most important things for forensic departments is that you don't shed, so therefore you have the paper suits and the masks and the boots to cover shoes. Because I – (indicates her jacket) this material will shed, even though it looks quite smooth. Small hairs. This sheds all the time, all the time.

So when you see in CSI this going on over a body (flicks her own hair off her shoulder). "Oh, well, I think he was here the night before," you know that isn't real and I don't want to put that into any of my film work or my books...

LYNDA LA PLANTE:...and classic recently is the possibility that if a rapist declares himself guilty, his sentence will be reduced. That to me can only be and have only come about because a man has done it.

No woman would actually say, "Oh, well if he said he's guilty and he raped me, you can reduce his sentence." You have a life sentence from rape. And no matter what - how many people say, "No, that's not true." It is, it's a life sentence.


www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3310628.htm

I'd luv to see a TV series w/ the character Anna Travis.

Revealing, informative interview.

I never watch CSI etc...my wife as a science teacher has told me a great deal about forensics...she reckons the American shows are generally unrealistic bunkum. La Plante confirms this.

America seems to be riddled w/ scientific inaccuracies.

N'




nasking

September 6. 2011 11:29 AM

Merlin

I wonder how long before news limited self destructs.

Merlin

September 6. 2011 11:30 AM

Tom of Melbourne

”Can anyone explain to me why Tom of Melbourne continues to return to this blogsite when it clearly is anathema to him?”

Allow me to help!

•  You have allowed homophobic labeling to occur without any chiding, or specific administrative objection. This occurred on the first occasion I visited your site. This attitude among your contributors is quite shameful, and should not be overlooked – but you do.
•  You use a slogan that puts up a façade, which you neglect to observe.
•  Dissenting voices are routinely labeled as trolls, this is certainly not just limited to me.
•  The “blame the media” mindset so popular here ignores the significant errors of the government.


I do hope this helps. This information is of course offered in a positive spirit, in the sincere hope that it will assist you to improve the quality of your site!

Tom of Melbourne

September 6. 2011 11:32 AM

BSA Bob

The MSM & Coalition would prefer that any replacement for Julia Gillard be Kevin Rudd. This would save them the bother of creating a new hatchet job on whomever the new leader happened to be. Standard footage & talking points could be used. Why, after a week or so, the speculation as to when Gillard was about to re-roll Rudd could begin!

BSA Bob

September 6. 2011 11:35 AM

nasking

I was also happy to see Paul Howes slap down Clive Palmer when he tried to get away with calling the Prime Minister, "Julia What'shername".

Feral,
I was pleased to see that to. Good on Howes. The audience warmth towards Palmer over his "onshore detention" comments turned more cooler after Howes pointed out his rude titling of the PM.

I was waiting for "that sheila in the Lodge" to come out at some point.

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 11:41 AM

Gravel

Feral Skeleton

In your response to Nas:
   All I have to say wrt to the Kevin11 polling is
1. News Ltd built him up and then they knocked him and the ALP down. What's to say that they won't do it again?
2. All the Kevin vs Julia poll says to me is 'Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and Familiarity breeds contempt.'
3. As Michael Rowland correctly pointed out in his interview with Newspoll CEO, Martin O'Shanessy, what real point is there in Newspoll conducting a beauty contest between Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard when there is absolutely no possibility that the Labor Caucus will even consider bringing him back? It just seems mischievous by Newspoll to keep asking the question.


I agree with all the above. Nas, you do come up with some really great points.  Maybe you could think about writing up a topic yourself, I'm sure AA would welcome other contributors.

It seems we have been invaded by some people that feel uncomfortable with the civil discourse we have on The Political Sword.  I do hope they do appreciate the many people can disagree here in a more agreeable way than they seem to be able to.

Gravel

September 6. 2011 11:44 AM

nasking

I think that can only be a good thing because his speeches need less levity and more gravity, and hopefully, Jon Favreau will get more prominence as a result as I believe that those speeches that he helped write with the BPOTUS before he was elected were some of the best he has ever given.

Good points Feral.

I used to see Obama as The Natural. Hopefully, like the character in the film, he'll come back from injured polling & a sense of him goin' on a mental journey that saw him drift away from the people somewhat...to standing at that home plate and givin' it his all...puttin' the ball beyond reach.

Grand slam!!!

Trumanesque...w/ a touch of Roosevelt, Lincoln, Reagan, Clinton & Kennedy.

Ahh hell...the natural Obama on fire in 08 will do. Smile

That speech needs to "knock 'em for six" as we say here.

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 11:47 AM

lyn

Hi Ad

I didn't post The Poll Bludger this morning.  Can you work out the Polls Ad, because they bamboozle me, different questions asked in every poll, how do they really measure them anyway?

We know some people have special measuring tapes, that are unavailable to the public.

I feel like not taking any notice of any polls, at least not for 2 years.

Newspoll: 59-41 to CoalitionWilliam Bowe, The Poll Bludger

Strong results for Laurie Oakes, George Negus and Tony Jones bear out a well-understood tendency of this kind of inquiry to favour those in the medium of television. It might thus be thought all the more remarkable that Alan Jones is rated the least trusted of the eight:

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/

Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 6. 2011 12:00 PM

nasking

Feral,
Rudd boarded at a Marist Brothers College apparently. Glad I didn't:

It's private - the school he wants to forget
April 27, 2007

Kevin Rudd spent two years at a private Catholic boarding school, but clearly hated the experience, writes Cosima Marriner.


www.smh.com.au/.../1177459877747.html

Brrr...

My mate David went to a boarding school back in the 50s I think it was...he was gay & terrified of coming out. Apparently he was beaten a few times...and once took a wee chook from his farm to the school to keep him company 'cause he was so sad...and kids crushed it in his case.

David was a real tough fella...hard man on the land type...could do anything...not afraid to get his hands dirty...weather-beaten skin, rugged face...hard as nails...yet great sense of humour & compassion if ya got close to him.

Tellin' those boarding school stories would make him shiver tho...and you could see both anger & fear in those wise eyes.

He sadly died from a blood infection. And could never get rid of an underlyin' depression.

I miss him. He was a great mate.

N'  

nasking

September 6. 2011 12:13 PM

nasking

you do come up with some really great points.  Maybe you could think about writing up a topic yourself, I'm sure AA would welcome other contributors.

Thnx Gravel,
as do you & many others on here.

I believe that if the government is gonna come back, which I believe it will, it needs to know its vulnerabilities broken down into points so they can address each expertly.

It also helps us to know where exactly the media is exaggeratin' &/or usin' Coalition/think tank talkin' points...and how to counter them. Ad & others like Mr. Denmore are doin' a superb job in that respect.

It's important tho to look beyond media influence & manipulation too...and see how the government can lift its game...make its communication more effective...and get down on the ground w/ the public...I really do believe Julia Gillard was making headway w/ the public when she got out there w/ them.

Gotta beat Abbott at his own game.

Get to those workers who don't trust Abbott & WorkChoices dead & buried claims...

showoff the BER accomplishments...pushback against the lazy media balderdash.

Get on the front foot. Like they did w/ Garrett mentionin' the Dad paid parental. But really push it...don't get distracted.

Play an offensive game...not defensive.

And get that bloody media inquiry goin'. Smile

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 12:25 PM

Patricia WA

This is for Talk Turkey, dog lovers, surfers, parents of skateboarders, or anyone who needs cheering up!

www.zapiks.com/.../player.swf

Patricia WA

September 6. 2011 12:44 PM

nasking

Anyone else think it's unbecoming of a leader to be sitting distracted & chuckling whilst his Treasurer gives a budget speech...and talks about helping the vulnerable in society?

NSW premier Barry O'Farrell should be ashamed of his unprofessional & distracting behaviour today in parliament. The same for the other ministers in the background.

Rude treatment of his Treasurer who took the speech seriously.

Concerned, I am, about the privatisation of prisons. A big honeypot for the corporate & religious types in the USA who did same.

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 12:44 PM

Mr Denmore

If Lyn's there, she might like to include my latest piece on The Failed Estate. It's called Anti-Social Media:

thefailedestate.blogspot.com/.../...ial-media.html

Mr D

Mr Denmore

September 6. 2011 01:21 PM

Feral Skeleton

  Nasking,
          The Liberals in NSW are also putting up Electricity and Water Rates, as well as knocking off the First Home Owners' Stamp Duty Concession for ouses under $500000, unless it's a newly-built one and part of the Urban sprawl that is O'Farrell's anti-environment, create new 'Aspirational' suburbs of McMansions, policy.
  Oh, and yes, the Liberals have introduced a 'Great Big New Tax', on the Mining Industry, but it's not a tax, it's a Royalty, and because it serves the dual purpose of kicking Labor in the financial goolies, the Miners aren't getting up an expensive ad campaign to whinge about it and try to destroy it at birth.

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 01:24 PM

nasking

There's no such thing as global warming!!!:

Texas Wildfires Destroy 300 Homes Near Austin

www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...troyed_n_949181.html

I mean it, there's no such thing as global warming!!!:

Hurricane Irene relief fund estimated at $1.5bn
White House says cost to taxpayer comes on top of $5.2bn needed to deal with other recent disasters


www.guardian.co.uk/.../hurricane-irene-reflief-cost

If there really was such a thing as global warming...hahaha...we'd know about it:

April 25–28, 2011 tornado outbreak
An extremely large and violent tornado outbreak, the largest tornado outbreak ever recorded, and popularly known as the 2011 Super Outbreak, occurred from April 25 to 28, 2011. The outbreak affected the Southern, Midwestern, and Northeastern United States, leaving catastrophic destruction in its wake, especially across the state of Alabama. It produced destructive tornadoes in Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia, and affected several other areas throughout the Southern and Eastern United States. At least 336 tornadoes were confirmed as of August 4 by the National Weather Service in 21 states from Texas to New York and even isolated tornadoes in Canada. Widespread and destructive tornadoes occurred on each day of the outbreak, with April 27 being among the most prolific and destructive tornado days in United States history. Four of the tornadoes were destructive enough to be rated EF5 on the Enhanced Fujita Scale, which is the highest ranking possible; typically these tornadoes are only recorded about once each year or less.
In total, an estimated 346 people were killed as a result of the outbreak.
(wikipedia)


Seriously, global warming is a socialist scam:


US counts the cost of nine months of unprecedented weather extremes
According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric administration, there have been 10 major disasters this year


www.guardian.co.uk/.../us-unprecedented-weather-extremes


These are natural cycles...nothing to do with global warming:


Dozens Dead, 4 Million Forced to Flee From Flooding in Pakistan Province

www.bloomberg.com/.../...s-as-rain-to-persist.html


Just natural cycles I'm telling you...global warming is a conspiracy.


The 2010 Pakistan floods began in late July 2010, resulting from heavy monsoon rains in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Sindh, Punjab and Balochistan regions of Pakistan and affected the Indus River basin. Approximately one-fifth of Pakistan's total land area was underwater, approximately 796,095 square kilometres (307,374 sq mi). According to Pakistani government data the floods directly affected about 20 million people, mostly by destruction of property, livelihood and infrastructure, with a death toll of close to 2,000
(Wikipedia)



There's nothing to see here...same as it ever was...certainly NOT global warming:


Queensland flood crisis reaches new heights - ABC News ...
12 Jan 2011 – Three-quarters of the Sunshine state is declared a disaster area as the flood focus turns to Brisbane and Ipswich, with mass power outages and ...


www.abc.net.au/.../1901894


Global warming? You need yer head checked.

WHAT ME WORRY?

I read The Australian.

Hey! How come my house insurance bill has gone up?...GILLARD!!!!


N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 01:34 PM

Ad astra reply

Mr Denmore
Lyn will include you latest piece in tomorrow's Lyn's Links.  Your work is always great reading.  Thank you.

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 01:36 PM

Feral Skeleton

Tom of Melbourne,
                 OK, if you're going to ignore my perfectly reasonable explanation about my so-called by you, 'homophobia', and still not apologise for the equally grubby things said about me, hmm, why is that I wonder? Because I'm just a woman? Especially when, I am the last person in Australia that could be called 'homophobic', and you're the first who could be called 'hypocritical', then I guess I'll just have to ignore you.
   And no, we don't call everyone who comes here and criticises the government, or us personally, 'trolls', just the ones who behave that way and do not contribute anything other than sneering condescension toward us because we do support a good government that is struggling against the biggest wrecking ball that has come a government's way in Australia since Gough Whitlam, wielded by a feral Opposition Leader and hand-in-glove with the same oligarchical newspaperman and his lackeys that did such a successful job 35 years ago.
  Now, you might think that because that government haven't yet enacted one particular policy that you single-mindedly judge to be above all others in importance, well, that's your right. I prefer to be a bit more nuanced than that. And just because I disagree with you on that policy, does NOT make me 'Homophobic'.
   Also, if you persist in coming to this blog and still refuse to apologise for the personal comments made about me, then I have every right to call you the 'Misogynist' Tom of Melbourne. Or the Misogynist Troll. It's just my opinion and I have every right, you know. Laughing

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 01:39 PM

lyn

Hi Mr Denmore

Ad's got you, we never like to miss any of your articles.

Thankyou for dropping in to alert us.

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 6. 2011 01:46 PM

Ad astra reply

Tom of Melbourne
How generous of you to once again point out the defects in TPS and particularly mine as proprietor, so that I can ‘improve the quality of my site’.

Having got that off your chest, for the umpteenth time, you might like now to make a positive contribution rather than offer your usual carping criticism.

I can see now why you continue to return when TPS is anathema to you – you are on a mission to improve the tenor of what transpires here.  Such evangelism merits commendation.

We look forward to your uplifting contribution to factually based, well reasoned discourse.

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 01:50 PM

Mr Denmore

Thank you Lynn! BTW, have you thought of creating an Instapaper and RSS feed with your links? Would make your life much easier.

Regards,

Mr D

Mr Denmore

September 6. 2011 01:58 PM

lyn

Hi Mr Denmore

Thankyou so much for asking me about Instapaper and RSS ,

I haven't thought anything about Instapaper, that's a new word  
for me, I am over the moon with interest.

Mr Denmore, would you have time to email details to Ad Astra,
I would , we would appreciate your help and advice very much.

Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 6. 2011 02:14 PM

nasking

Top job by Mike Kelly on Lunchtime Agenda.

Just the tone required, calm & efficient explanation of accomplishments & govt policy, assertive w/out bein' rude...determined, occasional humour...attractive slightly rumbling voice...grabs yer attention like Sean Connery...natural & down-to-earth...

Feral,
I meant to mention Kelly when you mentioned bringing new blood into the front ranks.

He's a real asset...could use more like him. Useful, positive communicator.

http://www.mikekelly.alp.org.au/

N'  

nasking

September 6. 2011 02:23 PM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        Mike Kelly is truly the Thinking Labor Woman's piece of crumpet. I think it's the perfectly manicured 'tache. Makes me want to write a female version of Skyhook's 'Women In Uniform'. Embarassed

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 02:25 PM

el gordo


  Nasking, all those amazing weather events are just natural variabilty, unless otherwise clearly defined.

We need to concentrate on trends.

el gordo

September 6. 2011 02:26 PM

Feral Skeleton

  Could someone tell me if this is paywalled or not? We all need to read it:
www.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-157242

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 02:26 PM

nasking

He he...enjoyed reading the followin' from Mr. Denmore:

Over at the Limited News Deathstar, the trick is to force foreign affairs coverage through their Never Ending Culture Wars blender - which is why Greg Sheridan (the man who spotted Iraq's WMDs from the American club in Macquarie Street) can describe Tony Abbott as having "the right stuff to master the world" because he sucked  up to some Israeli diplomats at a Sydney luncheon.

And, remember, these are the "professional" journalists - the ones who patronise respected names in social media as "unedited bloggers",   and claim they themselves are the only ones with the skills and discretion to know news when they see it and provide useful and insightful analysis around it.


I can imagine that Mr. Right Stuff Abbott would be about as useful a crusader for Israel's purposes as GW Bush & WhataDick Cheney...

leaving Israel in a state of shock & confusion...weaker and wanting.

and claim they themselves are the only ones with the skills and discretion to know news

Perhaps Insiders should be changed to The Chosen Ones? Smile

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 02:30 PM

Jason

  Could someone tell me if this is paywalled or not? We all need to read it:
www.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-157242

No paywall FS!

Jason

September 6. 2011 02:34 PM

nasking

Oh, and yes, the Liberals have introduced a 'Great Big New Tax', on the Mining Industry,

Feral,
taxing them Liberally eh?

The Liberals in NSW are also putting up Electricity and Water Rates

That should please the Daily Telegraph.
Nuthin' like consistency.

as well as knocking off the First Home Owners' Stamp Duty Concession for ouses under $500000, unless it's a newly-built one and part of the Urban sprawl that is O'Farrell's anti-environment, create new 'Aspirational' suburbs of McMansions, policy.

Do those McMansions come w/ free delivery of bucketloads of KFC...petrol vouchers & valium for long distance travel in traffic jams...and flood insurance...and a stamp of approval containin' the image of a gigglin' Premier O'Farrell???

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 02:39 PM

nasking

all those amazing weather events are just natural variabilty, unless otherwise clearly defined.

We need to concentrate on trends.


As in, it's trendy to put yer head in the sand, brain in the cupboard & be washed away whilst desperately hangin' onto yer wallet. :0

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 02:42 PM

Jaeger

Lyn & Ad,

Thanks for checking the links; I hope you can eliminate the gremlin soon!  Smile  

Jaeger

September 6. 2011 02:50 PM

Tom of Melbourne

I love it when the deletion inclined co-author at TPS presumes that my  grievance against the government is over gay marriage! Hilarious!!

And you weren’t the only one here who resorted to homophobic labelling as a welcome to my first visit here.  

But such behaviour has been successively ignored by the site owner!

I suppose I should blame the media for the successive, deep seated anti gay commentary here. Apparently the malaise in socially progressive attitudes is the fault of News Ltd.

***please note, the above commentary is intended only for the purposes of quality improvement***

Tom of Melbourne

September 6. 2011 02:51 PM

nasking

Feral & Jason,
this Crikey story is a killer...and so spot on:

Tuesday, 6 September 2011  
Rupe’s Jordan dip shrouded in revelation
by Guy Rundle @ Crikey


Thus The Guardian and other newspapers splashed out yesterday with the revelation that Tony Blair was the godfather (yes, yes) to one of Rupert Murdoch’s and Wendi Deng’s children — one of the two who will take over what remains of the News empire, and push it into China, long after they have done away with James, an obvious dud.

Yes, the story is surprising, even given the well-known closeness between Murdoch and Blair — and the desire to bind him into the family with some bullsh-t archaic role that has a medieval aspect to it. But what was really eye-popping was mentioned in passing: that Blair had attended the christening of the Deng-Murdoch children “on the banks of the Jordan River”.

Say what? They did what? Apparently so. One had either forgotten it, or never known, but there it was hiding in plain sight — a Hello magazine photo shoot with the entire extended family, down by the riverside, having allegedly sought out the place where, by tradition, Jesus was baptised.

Surely this is the real story. Blair’s sycophancy is well-known. If Rupe had decided to convert to Judaism, Blair would have been at the Deng-Murdoch bris, playing the role of foreskin*. Murdoch’s identification as a Christian to varying degrees, and in varying contexts, has been going on for years. But the banks of the Jordan is summat else.

The Hello shots of the event are instantly self-parodic, of course — the whole gang in white, presumably to look sepulchral. Instead they hover between a publicity shot for Dallas c.1979, and the summer snaps of the Ceausescus, who favoured a similar look. But what is most grimly funny is what a travesty of Christianity they are.

After all, the whole point of Christian rituals of baptism, communion, etc, is the idea of full presence everywhere at such key moments — a baptism can be done with tap water, communion with a Salada, and whatever surrounds the rite in question should be mild concessions to the human need for ceremony.

Having your baptism on the banks of the Jordan, as if being closer to the spot where one quasi-fictional or historically composite character didn’t baptise another one, is to take Christianity backwards — to make it some crude, idolatrous form, as if Ba’al were hanging around Ramallah.

The crude idea that this could somehow be better is some weird mix of new age wackiness, familial narcissism, megalomania and Chinese god-emperor worship all bound up in one package. That Blair, who believes himself told by God to destroy Iraq, came along for the ride is all to be expected.

When ruling elites and cliques approach their decadence, ritual and superstition take over from rationality, because a clear-eyed view of the situation does not square with your self-belief. Murdoch’s Christianity may or may not be sincere, but it is emblematic of the manner in which an idolatrous, hollowed-out version of the religion has been adopted by a ruling elite who for a decade or two placed their faith in the mantra of growth, consumerism and free markets...

So inevitably, the whole family would appear at the banks of the Jordan — less to be washed clean of sin than to imbibe its magic powers. Dressed in white, they look less angelic than upholstered, a group portrait of overpriced sofas. White, the colour of purity in the West, and mourning in China, looks less like shifts for the purpose of baptism, and more like shrouds. A revelation indeed.


much more here...a great read:

www.crikey.com.au/.../

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 02:57 PM

reb of Hobart

I think it's very generous of Tom to offer his valuable advice to help improve the quality of discourse here at TPS.

reb of Hobart

September 6. 2011 02:58 PM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        Don't forget the weekly slab of (insert your State's parochial beer du jour here), to go with the Valium and the Mega Mind-Numbing TV. Wink
   Barry O'Farrell and the GLibs might think they're on easy street now, but the fightback from the Labor Party has already begun in NSW. Wherever they go, whatever they do, we'll be watching them when they slip on a banana peel. And they already are. The Liberals' ability to look the other way when Industry wants to pollute, and Industry's enthusiastic acknowledgement of the nod and the wink they have been given is already producing a return to 'the good old days' as the Liberals and their business mates see it. Just today a Mining compnay has been found to have taped over the dust monitors near their coal mine in NSW and disabled the earth tremor detectors that monitor the effects of their blasting and equipment on the surrounding environment and people's houses in nearby towns.
   Just over 100 days in Power and already I can smell the stench from Macquarie Street as far as the Central Coast where I live. This is no dancin' in your underpants, this is pissing on the little people and the environment they hold dear.

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 03:07 PM

nasking

I suppose I should blame the media for the successive, deep seated anti gay commentary here

As if. Yer really overreaching Tom. Go and grab a beer & some therapy.

Yer actin' more like an annoyed lama by the day.

BTW all good people...we must be doin' somethin' right to have so many venomous tricky dicks & angst-ridden righties poppin' in. Quite interestin' when ya think of where some of them are comin' from.

The frenzy. Not unlike what we're seein' on our teles.

Time's runnin' out for them obviously. TICK TOCK TICK TOCK

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 03:09 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
All of you, and particularly those who see this piece of mine as simply: ‘it’s all the media’s fault’, might be interested in Robert Manne’s assessment of The Australian and its editor-in-chief, Chris Mithchell in his essay in The Monthly: Power without responsibility; Rupert Murdoch's Australian.
www.abc.net.au/.../3309666.htm  

A telling paragraph reads: “The Australian is a remorseless campaigning paper; in recent times against the Building the Education Revolution program and the National Broadband Network. In these campaigns its assigned journalists appear to begin with their editorially determined conclusion and then to seek out evidence to support it.”, which is what this piece asserts.

Also, you might enjoy listening to the thirty-minute interview of Robert Manne by Nick Feik about his essay.  I found the whole interview informative and revealing. www.themonthly.com.au/bad-news-robert-manne-murdochs-australian-3830

Clearly Manne considers The Australian blameworthy for its unremitting advocacy for a conservative ideological position, and its trenchant opposition to ‘the Left’ and ‘The Greens’.

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 03:13 PM

Jason

I think it's very generous of Tom to offer his valuable advice to help improve the quality of discourse here at TPS.

Very generous reb! you sound like the Nigerian bank manger I spoke to today! you know promise the world deliver an atlas!some things just aren't possible.

Jason

September 6. 2011 03:16 PM

reb of Hobart

The Australian is anti-Labor....????

Who knew!!

reb of Hobart

September 6. 2011 03:20 PM

lyn

Hi Jaeger

Jaeger, a big thankyou to you for letting me know about the
faulty links.  

02:42 PM Lyn & Ad,
Thanks for checking the links; I hope you can eliminate the gremlin soon!    
Jaeger


CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 6. 2011 03:26 PM

debbiep

Woo Hoo A Congratulations from me  for your  link on the front page of Crikey  Ad for this great article you have written.

http://www.crikey.com.au/politics/

•  News Ltd’s indelible influence on the Labor brand
The Political Sword


debbiep

September 6. 2011 03:27 PM

Gravel

Nas

I laughed at your comment;

there is no global warming, nah, no such thing.

It is the same game we play in this house at all the unfortunate disasters.

I couldn't believe here in Australia, after a 10 year drought and then the horrific floods all down the East Coast of Australia, that people don't understand how important that we all need  to do everything we can to get our carbon emissions down so we earthlings with have a future.  We at least our descendants will.

Gravel

September 6. 2011 03:28 PM

Ad astra reply

Reb
I thought it was you who dismissed this piece simply as a lament: “It’s all the media’s fault…”.  Yet you apparently agree with Manne’s contention that The Australian is anti-Labor.  So perhaps you agree that this paper exercises an undue influence towards political outcomes adverse to Labor, which is what this piece maintains.

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 03:32 PM

Patricia WA

polliepomes.wordpress.com/.../#comment-76   Anyone itching to speak their mind about unwelcome attempts to disrupt a decent site is welcome to comment.

I've refrained from putting this on TPS for obvious reasons, quite apart from the superficial issue in the title having passed its use by date.  I have decided to publish it on my own site where I exercise my absolute right to delete offensive comments.  I'm open to constructive criticism but I don't have to accept insults and slurs.  I decide who is <em> persona non grata</a> on my blog and the acceptability of what they say!

There is a potentially offensive term contained in this so FS and others please feel to comment and I will willingly withdraw it if asked.  Otherwise please let rip.  I'll be trashing the page very shortly anyway.  

Patricia WA

September 6. 2011 03:34 PM

Ad astra reply

debbiep
Thank you for your kind comments and for the link to the Crikey mention of this piece. http://www.crikey.com.au/politics/

It is gratifying that TPS is read beyond the regular group that visit here.

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 03:41 PM

Ad astra reply

Patricia WA
You do have a nice turn of phrase.

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 03:42 PM

lyn

DebbieP

Your a little beauty for finding TPS on Crikey's front page.

Ad Astra said the traffic increased twofold from Crikey's advertising. There has been heaps of tweeters linking TPS as well.

Thankyou DebbieP

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 6. 2011 03:48 PM

Tom of Melbourne

So, are all the anti gay rights and commentary here a product of –
•  The attitudes that the blog leadership has accepted/tolerated/ignored?
•  The media fuelled anti gay rights agenda, permeating the attitudes of the otherwise socially progressive contributors?
•  Inherent in the belief system of the TPS flock?

Tom of Melbourne

September 6. 2011 03:56 PM

lyn

Hi Patricia

Well aren't you just the most brilliant friend to have.
Cleverer than clever, what a great idea.

I have just posted Polliepomes all over facebook and twitter,
you should get some traffic, but you better be on hand to
monitor though.

The video you posted for Talk Turkey was fantastic, I don't think
Talk Turkey has seen it yet, because when he does, he is going
to tell how excellent those smart little dogs are. Was a great
piece of photgraphy as well.

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 6. 2011 04:02 PM

Ad astra reply

Tom of Melbourne
Is this your idea of a constructive addition to the discourse on this piece?

Are you capable of a constructive contribution?  If not, please blog somewhere else.

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 04:06 PM

el gordo


Nasking, a five year trend and not single weather events.

A good example is the freezing winters in Europe which keep on coming, this should not be happening in a steadily warming world.

el gordo

September 6. 2011 04:10 PM

nasking

Tom is obviously lying in order to turn readers off.

I would ban him Ad astra for making such slanderous comments. And for continually disrupting the flow of the blog. He's had an apology from Feral...and plenty of opportunities to air his views & be rational...but persists in troll-like fashion.

The comments made at GT about you as a moderator are beyond the pale. And attacks last nite on Lyn.

The same two characters have taken an antagonistic approach over at Cafe Whispers too...and a misogynistic comment was predictably made by one.

He has also had yet another act of catharsis by way of attacking the PM full bore on his blog. His right, yet again predictable.

Enuff is enuff. It appears they are seeking to damage both blogs...and get attention for their own. It is adolescent stuff. And highly irresponsible.

I'm sure that many of us who are gay rights supporters have had enuff of his lies & false claims and attempts to denigrate this good & tolerant blog.

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 04:12 PM

NormanK

Ad astra

The boys thrive on attention. Without it they have no reason to exist.
Just scroll on by.

NormanK

September 6. 2011 04:14 PM

Feral Skeleton

ToM,
    There is no 'anti gay rights agenda' here at TPS. I'm just sensibly waiting for the result of the ALP's National Conference at the end of the year before I can say with any certainty that they, as a party, are one way or the other. I think you should temper your commentary accordingly as well.
  As I stated earlier, your assessment of my other comments is misguided, as you obviously didn't grow up around the homosexuals I did, starting from being picked up from Primary School in the early Sixties by a couple of Lesbians, through the Sydney Kings Cross & Darlinghurst Club scene in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s and on to today.
  Though I will admit I shouldn't have spoken in, and did apologise for, the perjorative way I spoke about your fellow Guttersnipes.
   So, now, can you build a bridge and get over it? Or are you forever going to live under it here at TPS? Sheesh!

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 04:14 PM

reb of Hobart

Ad,

The Australian is one newspaper in a myriad of sources from where Australians can get their news and information.

Of course the media can influence opinions, however I credit Australians with a little more objective thinking power than perhaps you do.

The Australian is a loss-making masthead with a declining circulation. I think you credit it with carrying more influence than it really does.

This was the same newspaper that suggested that people should vote for Kevin Rudd in 2007.

At that time, as you would be aware, Kevin Rudd was enjoying unprecedented popularity, around 69% if memory serves me correctly.

Don't you think that the media played a role in his tremendous popularity at that time? Including, somewhat surprisingly The Australian.

The media landscape hasn't changed much in the last four years, yet you blame the media for Gillard's abysmal ratings, which is sharp contrast to Rudd's stratospheric ratings four years ago.

The reality is that the Gillard govt has gained a reputation of inexperience and incompetence.  And that she is beholden to the right Union factions.

Rather than shoot the messenger, the media, perhaps a considered examination of the Gillard government's performance in recent months would be more illuminating.

It is clear that she is hugely unpopular compared to Kevin Rudd, and many Australians are still uncomfortable with the way she deposed him.

I think the media has had a relatively minor role in Labor's demise. Largely it's self-inflicted, and they really only have themselves to blame.




























reb of Hobart

September 6. 2011 04:22 PM

Jason

Aa,
  "MICHAEL Smith, the 2UE afternoon host promising to broadcast an incendiary interview about allegations of union corruption, has been pulled off air.
Fairfax Radio Network's general manager Graham Mott said Smith was off air until the network clarified claims made in an interview with former President of the Australian Workers Union, Bob Kernohan.

"I've instructed Michael not to be on air while we make further investigations," Mott said, unwilling to use the word "suspension".

He and 2UE management will meet with Smith tomorrow. Meanwhile Clinton Maynard is filling in during the afternoon shift today and possibly tomorrow.

2UE's management has spent a week investigating claims made by Kernohan in a recorded interview with Smith. Smith has focused upon allegations concerning PM Julia Gillard and has promised for a week to air the interview. It is believed the interview focuses upon the behaviour of a former union official, Bruce Wilson, and his former relationship with Gillard in the early 1990s.
Some of the allegations were aired in a column by Glenn Milne in The Australian, which was withdrawn from the internet the morning of its publication last week. Both Smith and Milne were featured, and criticised, in last night's edition of ABC1's Media Watch.

Mott said it was his decision alone to take Smith off air.

"What we want to do is be able to investigate the matter without any distractions," he said of Smith's absence.

"There is no angst for Fairfax Radio Network," he said. "There is no one above me in management telling me what I can or can't do. There's no one from any political party telling me what I can or can't do."

He said it was a simple decision to investigate whether the material in Smith's interview with Kernohan had evidence to support it. "It may mean we never broadcast the material," Mott said.
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg996-1226130674363

Jason

September 6. 2011 04:24 PM

lyn

Hi Nasking

I agree, now that you have explained, I can see clearly
what is going on.

This is the third day.

I have seen the comments on Cafe Wispers the same method being applied there as here.

Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 6. 2011 04:28 PM

nasking

I couldn't believe here in Australia, after a 10 year drought and then the horrific floods all down the East Coast of Australia, that people don't understand how important that we all need  to do everything we can to get our carbon emissions down so we earthlings with have a future.  We at least our descendants will.

Gravel,
glad it struck a chord. Smile

My wife & our close friends feel the same. It's become a country of too many nutters & denialists & cynics & doubters.

Not surprisin' tho when ya think of who the shock jocks are...and which opportunistic moguls & gatekeepers are running the bulk of the newspapers.

A good example is the freezing winters in Europe which keep on coming, this should not be happening in a steadily warming world.

el gordo,

you should know that freezing temperatures were expected w/ global warming. Europe has also had many droughts, raging fires, floods. In the UK centuries old bridges were destroyed by floods. A coupla years ago Russia had some of the most destructive fires in its recorded history.

I have no interest in debating a sceptic...let the scientists fight it out.

Oh, not many support yer claims. C'est la vite!

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 04:34 PM

Ad astra reply

Reb
You make my case.  When The Australian supported Kevin Rudd his popularity was high; when that support was withdrawn and stories about the HIP and BER filled its pages, it fell.  It is trenchantly opposed to Julia Gillard and her Government, its pages abound with anti-Government pieces, and her Government’s popularity is low.  You may not want to make a connection, but I do.

If one believes Manne’s contention that The Australian sets the tone and agenda for the News Limited tabloids, the influence of the former is magnified as it extends across the Murdoch media.

You lay the blame for the Government’s and PM Gillard’s poor polling largely at Labor’s feet and essentially exonerate the media.  I disagree.  Let’s leave it at that.

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 04:35 PM

nasking

I agree, now that you have explained, I can see clearly
what is going on.
This is the third day.


Hi Lyn,
yes...sadly, it's their modus operandi. We could do w/out it.

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 04:37 PM

reb of Hobart

He has also had yet another act of catharsis by way of attacking the PM full bore on his blog. His right, yet again predictable.

That's hilarious Nasking!

I put up a post reporting on the abysmal Newspoll results, and somehow you interpret this as "me" attacking the PM?

As you well know, I've had posts "attacking" all sides of politics at various times.

I think elected leaders deserve some scrutiny.  You (amongst others) seem to feel that Gillard should be beyond reproach.

Her steadfast support for Craig Thomson is just one example of her questionable judgement.

Would you be so silent on the subject if this was Howard supporting one of his ministers in the same circumstances?

I doubt it, but you give Gillard a free pass.

Sad really.










reb of Hobart

September 6. 2011 04:49 PM

reb of Hobart

"You make my case."

No I don't.

You make the assumption (and that's really all that it is), that The Australian has somehow single-handedly been responsible for the rise and fall of two Labor leaders and influenced public opinion accordingly at the same time.

That's simply outlandish.

Are you suggesting that everyone in Australia reads The Australian and forms their opinions purely on what they publish?







reb of Hobart

September 6. 2011 04:52 PM

reb of Hobart

Like I said at the beginning (a comment that has now been deleted)...

It's just the same old tired excuse for an abysmal govt - "It's all the media's fault"

reb of Hobart

September 6. 2011 04:56 PM

Sue

What pains they are, TOM and reb. I wonder if they get paid by the number of annoying posts on sites such TPS and Cafe. But actually their posts read like whinging children. Or is the motivation to disrupt rather than contribute, like Tony Abbott in parliament with the constant but unproductive rants for a censure motion.

Sue

September 6. 2011 05:12 PM

Jason

reb,
   "Her steadfast support for Craig Thomson is just one example of her questionable judgement."

Why? he says he's done nothing wrong, he's yet to be charged with any offence, yet this is somehow questionable?
Your evidence to the contary is what? is it based on what Milne and Smith from 2UE have claimed? if it is not? even their employers don't have much faith in "their" evidence thus far! So what is questionable?

Jason

September 6. 2011 05:15 PM

Trevor

I just heard one of the most amusing pieces on the ABC news.  The govt is scheduling the carbon tax legislation to be considered by parliament in the next two weeks and Christopher Pyne is complaining because he thinks they are doing it for a distraction.

Can you believe this? Where do you start?  Is it that he thinks parliament should only be used for asking questions about politicians personal lives and we should not distract them from this important business with actual legislation?  This is only thing they wanted to talk about for months but now its time to debate it in parliament they cant be bothered.  

Or could it be that they know once the legislation is passed their big new scare campaign may run out of steam when confronted with reality.  

I am sure Tony will argue that we should wait until the science is settled.  Because 97.5 percent of scientists is nowhere near enough.  

Trevor

September 6. 2011 05:20 PM

2353

AA - ignore them or ban them, either way I don't care.  Just don't respond.

On topic - The ABC reported (and I linked before to the report) that hospital waiting lists are falling in three states.  Anyone seen a report of this positive news anywhere else?

2353

September 6. 2011 05:26 PM

Sue

The Carbon Tax legislation in parliament in the next 2 weeks OMG, sounds as though PM Gillard is so worried she has decided to get on with the job of leading this nation.
I better go check all those "Shes Finished" headlines in the Australian.

As for Pyne, remember the no pairs decision, did he think that was going to stop this Government.

Sue

September 6. 2011 06:13 PM

nasking

Typically the frenzy media have hounded the PM all the way to NZ. So tabloid UK style of them. Certainly time for a media inquiry.

Anthony Albanese is correct when he makes the observation that the media are oddly acting like they are in election cycle. Indeed, far too intense. Little focus on policies...and the work of the government...far too much focus on the leadership beat-up...and polls that get more attention than they deserve considerin' we're two years away from an election.

And as usual Tony Abbott gets a free ride.

I noticed David Speers on Arvo Agenda gave Barnaby Joyce a lengthy interview and extended opportunity to dump on the government. He queried whether Barnaby would eventually be made deputy leader.

Interesting...I guess we need to know more about him:

Joyce graduated with a commerce degree from the University of New England in Armidale, and served in the Australian Army Reserve from 1994 to 1999. At university Joyce met his wife, Natalie, and they married in 1993. After graduating, Joyce moved around northern New South Wales and Queensland, and at one point worked as a bouncer. Joyce worked in the accounting profession before entering Parliament and is an FCPA (Fellow of CPA Australia).

A Roman Catholic, Joyce served as President of the St George branch of the Society of St Vincent de Paul 1998–2004.

Political views
Senator Joyce holds conservative views on most moral and social issues. Joyce is pro-life and was a prominent voice in the parliamentary debate against the introduction of the drug RU-486. He has also consistently opposed the use of capital punishment. He took offence at a pamphlet put out by Family First candidate Danny Nalliah, which identified bottle shops, brothels, masonic lodges, mosques, and Hindu and Buddhist temples as "strongholds of Satan", and said that he did not want the preferences of such a party. Joyce criticised the party, calling them "the lunatic Right", and saying that "these are not the sort of people you do preference deals with".[5] Nonetheless he gained office with preference flows from Family First Party, among many others including Pauline Hanson.

On the economy, Senator Joyce has often earned the ire of his economic rationalist parliamentary colleagues in the Liberal Party of Australia. Joyce has taken up a number of causes often labelled as populist, such as his support for the retention of a single-desk wheat export marketing system for Australian grain growers, drought assistance for primary producers, and amendments to the Trade Practices Act 1974 and media reform regulations that aim to strengthen the ability of small business to compete with multi-national corporations. When questioned on his views, he stated "Maybe I'm an agrarian socialist, I don't know, is there a problem with being an agrarian socialist?".

On 17 March 2009, Joyce launched a privately funded advertisement campaign to keep Rio Tinto local, attacking a bid by the Chinese government-owned resources company Chinalco, a bid which has also been heavily criticised by Legal & General in the United Kingdom.

In August 2011 Joyce spoke at an anti same-sex marriage rally, claiming that same-sex marriage legislation would affect his daughters' rights to marry men. In response Senator Sarah Hanson-Young stated "There is nothing in my Marriage Equality Bill that would prevent Senator Joyce's daughters from getting married to the partner of their choice, rather than taking rights away, the bill extends the rights to all couples."

On 17 August 2005 the Government announced a package of $3 billion to improve telecommunications services in regional and rural areas. On the basis of this, the National Party, including Joyce, agreed to support the sale of Telstra. This led the Labor Party to label Joyce "Backdown Barney" and "Barnaby Rubble" in an acrimonious parliamentary debate. Joyce voted with the Government in the Senate on 14 September 2005, to sell the Government's remaining share of Telstra.

Joyce was elected to the Senate in the 2004 election, his term commencing on 1 July 2005. His term will run until 30 June 2011. Joyce regained the seat that the Nationals lost to the One Nation Party in 1998, defeating the One Nation Senator Len Harris.

The only practising accountant in the coalition, he has a bluntness to the economic debate that raises the ire of his colleagues but has interested the media such as with his statement on the Rudd Labor government's first stimulus package in 2008, supported at the time by the Leader of the Opposition, Malcolm Turnbull, that it would "be spread across the floor on Christmas Day with 'Made in China' written on the back".

He also espoused the virtues of free enterprise, particularly at the small business and family-owned business level. As well, having earlier told a Right to Life conference in July that his greatest goal in public life was to ban "the unfortunate carnage" of abortion, he used his first speech to identify abortion as the "slavery debate of our time".

In May 2006 Joyce promoted mining of Antarctica (mining is banned under the Antarctic Treaty). Joyce justified his proposal by saying:

There's minerals there, there's gold, there's iron ore, there's coal, there's huge fish resources and what you have to ask is: 'Do I turn my head and allow another country to exploit my resource ... or do I position myself in such a way as I'm going to exploit it myself before they get there'.

In February 2010 Joyce declared that Australia was "going to hock to our eyeballs to people overseas" and was "getting to a point where we can't repay it". This led to a response from the Governor of the Reserve Bank, Glenn Stevens, that he had "yet to meet a finance minister (sic) who has ever mused any possibility about debt default of his own country" and that there were "few things less likely than Australia defaulting on its sovereign debt".
(wikipedia).



So, we could have for deputy PM under PM Abbott another Christian moraliser who luvs to larf at his own piss weak jokes...

a gay marriage worried father...who pretends to be offended by xenephobia & bigotry and yet doesn't mind a preferential vote or twelve flowing from the likes of Family First & Pauline Hanson...

Barnaby when not soaking in the limelight...enjoys a robust hotheaded battle in the senate, including flaming Penny Wong...but fortunately his bouncer past has taught him dollops of self-control...ensurin' his head doesn't explode like a rotten beetroot in the hot hot sun...

Barnaby's predictably pollie in that he has done a few opportunistic backflips like his mate "weathervane" Tony...

and earnestly believes in mining even the most pristine places on Earth such as the Antarctic...

he doesn't seem to mind doin' a bit of xenophobe stirring when it comes to China...and has a habit of flitting between populist protectionist announcements and free enterprise/trade...once again just like his "weathervane" mate Tony...

and moralising Barnaby seems to enjoy making women who've had an abortion uncomfortable...yet votes against a drug that could reduce abortions, not unlike every far right-winger who pontificates from on high whilst watching young women get pregnant & struggle financially until a sane government helps them get a tertiary degree...and opportunities for better paid jobs...

and lastly, their Barnaby dances to the tune of climate change sceptics...wading thru QLD flood waters like a horseman from the apocalypse...when not hangin' w/ the boys in the usual places ocker men do...

Sounds like the Tony & Barnaby story will be all kinds of fun for millions of people.

Fancy that, One Nation under Abbott & Joyce & Murdoch.

Dante's inferno anyone? Dark ages perhaps?

And who says the Coalition is bein' run by extremists? How dare they!

N'

nasking

September 6. 2011 06:22 PM

Jason

Propaganda Techniques
Edward Filene helped establish the Institute of Propaganda Analysis in 1937 to educate the American public about the nature of propaganda and how to recognize propaganda techniques. Filene and his colleagues identified the seven most common "tricks of the trade" used by successful propagandists. These seven techniques are called:

Name Calling
Glittering Generalities
Transfer
Testimonial
Plain Folks
Card Stacking
Band Wagon
These techniques are designed to fool us because the appeal to our emotions rather than to our reason.

mason.gmu.edu/.../Propaganda%20Techniques.html

Jason

September 6. 2011 06:24 PM

Casablanca

Trevor,

Agree with what you say especially about Christopher Pyne.

I saw the tail-end of Lyndal Curtis' show tonight and there was a rote-memory afflicted Liberal spokesman, who I did not know, droning on about the need to give the Carbon Legislation proper scrutiny. In particular he spoke of the need for committee scrutiny. Lyndal did not have the presence of mind, of course, to remind the Lib that his mob could have joined the Multi-Party Climate Change Committee and participated in crafting rather than trying to scuttle or delay the legislation.

Casablanca

September 6. 2011 06:44 PM

Trevor

Not only that Casablanca, I understand the draft legislation has been available for some time now.  I wouldn't mind betting they haven't done their homework.  From Tony Abbott, Joe Hockey through to the rest of them they are very much work shy.  They love trading pot shots and shouting sound bites but doing a bit a bit of graft to create policy or study legislation.  Nah more interesting things to do.

lets go and dig some dirt.    

Trevor

September 6. 2011 07:49 PM

Feral Skeleton

reb,
    I see you have taken it upon yourself to be judge, jury and executioner of Craig Thomson, and the PM for standing by him. You may like to read this News Ltd(hence, can't be accused of being a Leftie apologist site) article and get back to me:
    www.news.com.au/.../story-e6frfkvr-1226123316189

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 07:56 PM

Feral Skeleton

Trevor,
       Christopher Pyne is an annoying distraction. Laughing

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 08:09 PM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        Speaking of UK Tabloid style journalism, I'm a gonna be watchin' James Murdoch get re-grilled by the UK Parliamentary Sub-Committee on the Media @ 8.30pm. Probably the best show on TV tonight, for mine. ABC24 are flicking over to it. Wonder how he'll go without Poppa and the phalanx of flunkies by his side? He'll probably have the B Team of Flunkies, due to the fact that he is dead meat twisting in the wind already, or so they say.

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 08:12 PM

Ad astra reply

2353
I haven’t heard anything on the TV news of the hospitals meeting their waiting list targets, and don’t expect I will.  After all, it’s a good news story.

Nasking
Barnaby Joyce sounds almost incomprehensible.  Is there something wrong with his cognition, or is it just his incapacity to articulate?  

FS, Casablanca, Trevor
Christopher Pyne is an annoying irritant, noisy but of little substance.

Folks
I’m retiring for the night.

Ad astra reply

September 6. 2011 08:17 PM

Sue

Thanks FS
l now have something to watch tonight

Sue

September 6. 2011 08:25 PM

jane

TT @9.29am, funny you should ask that question. I do happen to be a blood nut, although age has dimmed the glister. But in my heyday it was a straighter version of Brooks's hair. In retrospect, a horned helmet may have been appropriate headwear. lol

However, I would never have allowed myself to work for the geriatric foreigner. His dirty tricks are not a recent phenomenon.

Way back when his sole holding was the tabloid [em]The News[/em] in SA he deliberately printed a graph upside down during an election campaign, so that it would look bad for Labor. Unfortunately for him the rival[em]The Advertiser[/em] put his weights up.

ToM, put up or shut up. List these "significant errors" preferably with links to support your claims. Links from Liars Party HQ will be subject to pointing and laughing.

Brain farts from Sir Liealot, Sloppy and Barnyard don't count.

I suppose I should blame the media for the successive, deep seated anti gay commentary here. Apparently the malaise in socially progressive attitudes is the fault of News Ltd.

Care to provide the evidence for that ToM, or are you as careless with that as you are with your accusations. Two words to sum up your comment: crass+nonsense.

reb, I can recall Howard's steadfast support for Reith after the phone card affair was exposed. However, if you remember, Reith wasn't the subject of speculation; he'd actually given the phone card to his son, who with his scaly mates, had run up a $50,000 bill which we taxpayers had forked out to the thieving scumbag.

After he was sprung, he paid the money back, but no doubt wouldn't have if he wasn't caught.

You won't have to look too far to find other examples of
Rodent support for Ministers and MPs who had either flagrantly disregarded his "Ministerial Code of Conduct," which sank without a trace after he has to sack half of them, or were involved in other dodgy practices.

The catch is that they had all been caught on the fiddle, but the Rodent had supported them steadfastly. Any comments about his judgement?

Thomson otoh hasn't been caught with his fingers in the till, he hasn't been charged with an offence, nor has he been accused of embezzling funds from his employer, except in Coward's Castle by the Liar's Party.

So we have a bloke who hasn't been accused of a crime, except by rumour mongers in quelle surprise!!!! the Murdoch media and the Liars Party, who hasn't been charged with a crime and who hasn't been convicted of a crime.

So remind us why Gillard's judgement is questionable in supporting a bloke whose only crime is the Liars Party wants a by-election?

And while we're on questionable judgement, anything to say on Liealot's steadfast support for a Senator who has been charged with shoplifting and assault? And his questionable judgement in allowing an embezzler of public money to frame policy.

And there's Sen Brandis's questionable and possibly illegal action in pressuring the NSW Police Commisioner. Liealot seems to be steadfastly supporting him.

So let's summarise; Julia Gillard's judgement is questionable for supporting an MP who hasn't committed a crime and she should be pilloried for doing so.

Liealot's judgement is beyond question for steadfastly supporting a Senator who has actually been charged with a crime and for steadfastly supporting a shadow Minister who has possibly illegally exerted pressure on the Police Commissioner in NSW.

Perhaps your judgement is somewhat questionable and very one sided, I might add. I hope you're not going to go the ToM defence that it doesn't matter how questionable the leader of the opposition's judgement is because he's not in government.

I wouldn't mind betting there's many a gaol bird who wishes that would stand up in court.




  

jane

September 6. 2011 09:37 PM

Sir Ian Crisp

The reign of the red-headed panjandrum is now terminal. Her Icarian antics have seen her plumb depths never before realised by any ALP leader. How sad that for the good of her party she can’t step aside and allow some other ‘talent’ within the ALP (do they have any?) to accept the baton.

It is time to cut this carcass down. Isn’t there one ALP MP with any decency in them to step forward and do the ALP and the nation a great service?

Sir Ian Crisp

September 6. 2011 10:11 PM

jane

reb, I think most Australians don't have much choice but to read the Murdoch press; after all he owns 70%.

....Christopher Pyne is complaining because he thinks they are doing it for a distraction.

From what, Mr Whynne? Their legislative program? Or from your grand standing, sloganeering and smear campaigns?

Honestly, this mob is arguably the biggest waste of space since Menzies. A lazy, untrustworthy, rabble. They are a disgrace!

I bet they don't debate the carbon legislation or bother to put up amendments or do anything an opposition is supposed to do. They make a mockery of the Parliament and of them bloody selves. This behaviour is shameful and an insult to the people who voted for them, imo.

Nasking, I didn't know that legislating for gay marriage would automatically render every marriageable male in the country gay.

No wonder Barnyard's worried that he won't be able to marry his daughters off especially as he's invested in all those ladders he's got leaning against their bedroom windows. Do you know whether this legislation will affect men who are already married? Maybe he could amend any proposed legislation.

Casablanca @6.24pm, another example of Liealot grandstanding and of the Liars Party's dereliction of their obligation to the people who voted for them, not that any of the dingbats seem to grasp that they are being dudded by this bunch of lazy bludgers.

Trevor @6.44pm, put the house on [strong]that[/strong] wager.

Further proof that the media is NOT doing its job. Shouldn't there be outrage that Liars Party voters are being short changed in all areas that matter like being properly represented?

Shouldn't there be outrage that Liars Party voters are being short changed in all areas that matter like being properly represented?

Comments from the "Labor's poor standing is their own fault and not down to the media" brigade?

It's not just the media's constant drumbeat of negativity about the government, it's the fact that either by laziness or design, they never scrutinise the opposition's complete dereliction of duty to their constituents.

Shouldn't this be a matter for concern? Should this poor performance be tolerated? After all it's not like their salaries are inconsiderable. I bet there's many an unemployed person who'd like to be paid a parliamentarian's salary for doing sod all!

Not exactly value for money; I wonder how Clive, Twiggy and Gina would regard an employee who did so very little for such a lot of money.

jane

September 6. 2011 10:18 PM

Trevor

Crispy, maaaate.  Luv your work, ya really know how to stick it up those bloody latte sipping, tree hugging gay pooftah's dont yah.  All those bloody elitists that think you have to win an argument with reason and logic.  Where do they get that crap from?  Really??? All you need to do is get in, throw around some insults and then stand back.  Bloody hell it works for Tony.  

Glad we don't have to actually think about any of that hard stuff.  I'm with you mate. keep it up.


Trevor

September 6. 2011 10:36 PM

Feral Skeleton

SIC,
    You're full of it, and obviously yourself.

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 10:36 PM

jane

Sir Ian, I wouldn't be too smug. Run your eyes over that lazy, talentless bunch of hacks you support. More talent in Gillard's nail clippings than the entire Liars Party both state and federal.

jane

September 6. 2011 10:42 PM

Feral Skeleton

jane,
     Watch out! or you'll be accused of being homophobic,just because you question them. Wink

Feral Skeleton

September 6. 2011 10:50 PM

Tom of Melbourne


Ad Astra, why have you allowed inflammatory homophobic insults to be posted on your site without rebuke?

The first time I posted on your site the anti gay vitriol started, from several of your regulars, certainly not limited to Feral Skeleton.

Then again with my most recent comments. Is homophobia tolerated here?

Why do you feel the need to chide provocative comments from dissenting views, but tolerate obnoxious comments from your regulars?

Do you think they’ve lived up to the lofty standards that this site professes?

The standards you tolerate here, in this respect, would not be allowed in any workplace.

Tom of Melbourne

September 6. 2011 11:02 PM

jane

FS seems to be an obsession of ToM's at the moment, saves him having to write a decent comment.

But really what the hell is he dribbling on about? What homophobia? I've hauled out the electron microscope and I'm buggered if I can find any here.

Maybe he's confused TPS with Dolt's site? lol

jane

September 6. 2011 11:03 PM

Trevor

Tom.  I am guessing that is myself you are referring to WRT homophobic comments.  I am sorry and withdraw, most humbly.  I did not realise that referring to those on the left of the debate in a derogatory sense would offend.  I have never been chastised by Andy in this regard.   I will also watch with a keen eye for any blogger referring to the right in disparaging terms and quote your words to them.  

Trevor

September 6. 2011 11:15 PM

Sue

jane
you should never have got yourself buggered, TOM will complain

Sue

September 6. 2011 11:29 PM

Trevor

SIC.  Jesting aside. I would really like it if you could engage in reasoned debate.  Dancing around, chanting nah nah na nah nah because your side is ahead in the polls with 2 years before an election is due, really is pointless. It does nothing for furthering debate on important issues, just gets peoples backs up.

Just say, Tony does win in 2013 then turns to the public service to develop his policies for him (I only say this because there is no evidence of the party developing any meaningful policies).  And, they don't deliver because the only way they could meet the savings he has promised is to sack themselves.  So after 6 months the public see him in his nakedness and turn off.  Suddenly, the ALP are back in front in the polls.  Do we then demand an election? Does parliament go on strike and hold their collective breath because they cant have there way?  

I am however being genuine.  I would really love to hear someone from the right engage on an intellectual level, explain how Direct Action could reduce CO2E by 5 percent by 2020. And, why it would be a superior policy to a market based mechanism for trading emission credits.  Just as an example say.  

  

Trevor

September 6. 2011 11:36 PM

Sue

Trevor no point turning to the public service. Abbott rabble doesn't trust treasury, immigration, finance, education, health to name a few and the coalition has already stated 12000 jobs will go.

Sue

September 7. 2011 12:03 AM

TalkTurkey

"Senator Joyce . . . has . . . consistently opposed the use of capital punishment."

Well gee that's comforting, On ya Barnyard!

You remind me of this bloke that keeps throwing Pool Chlorine into the Victoria Square Fountain, you ask him why, he looks at you like you're daft, It's to keep the Crocodiles away. You say But there's no Crocodiles anywhere in South Oz, Yep he says Effective eh!

Only in your case Barney, you oppose capital punishment.  I say, But there hasn't been capital punishment anywhere in Australia since Victorian Premier Bolte hanged Ronald Ryan on 3rd February 1967!*

You were born 6 weeks later, on 17th April 1967, and you have prevented any more judicial murders ever since! WOW!

Man-at-Arms Barnaby, How about you also campaign against slavery, keel-hauling,  and the landlord's right of defloration of girl-children born in his fiefdom? All terrible social evils I'm sure you'll agree. And you are Just The Man for the job! Oh and if you happen to need a new Landrover . . .

*(For killing a guard with a bullet that he didn't fire btw. I understand it was another guard's bullet.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On a lighter note: (I just came up with this Smile )

What's the difference between Trolls, and fireworks that have got damp?

(answer tomorrow Wink)  

FUN WITH TROLLS

TalkTurkey

September 7. 2011 12:35 AM

David Lewis

Agree with everyone who has praised this essay. May I also suggest another factor: and that is the way that Ms Gillard took the job. With that act, she implied a great deal of promise and improvement. Mr Rudd was still high in personal approval. When he was removed, it was with the implied promise that his replacement would do better. She hasn't done better - neither, as you point out, has she done much worse. But given the factors you bring in, plus a sense of disappointment felt by most people, coupled with a cabinet of whom many are outrightly mistrusted, it is no wonder Ms Gillard is up against it.

David Lewis

September 7. 2011 01:30 AM

Casablanca

Glenn Milne is such a charmer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlzDHY9CRB8

Casablanca

September 7. 2011 07:37 AM

Feral Skeleton

Trevor,
       When, or if, the Opposition get elected federally 'and they don't deliver', and election promises are broken, as in NSW after the Coalition got elected here, then they will fall back on the old Liberal saw: "It was them wot made us have to do it."
   The Coalition are nothing if not truly accomplished prevaricators. For them political pragmatism rather than policy roolz, OK?

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 07:38 AM

lyn

TODAY’S LINKS




“Ditch the witch”: How the Murdoch press is using misogyny to wage war on Australian PM Julia Gillard, GlobalComment.com
Pushed hard by opposition leader Tony Abbott and Murdoch’s News LimitedNews Limited is picking a tacky, misogynistic,
and utterly transparent fight with the Prime Minister, and they’re doing it so that the very wealthiest people in the country can stay so.
globalcomment.com/.../

The ALP ship has already hit the electoral iceberg, Greg Jericho, The Drum
get an unnamed source, quote some bookmakers odds, make it clear nothing might actually be happening, mention the poll, rule in an unlikely candidate (Peter Beattie), rule out an unlikely candidate (Peter Beattie), get Albanese to say there's nothing to see here, and you're done.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2873836.html

Anti-Social Media , Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate
The community - through Twitter or other agencies - can share information among themselves, which means journalists are going
to have to find new ways of adding value.
thefailedestate.blogspot.com/.../...ial-media.html

Can Labor Win? YES THEY CAN!, Ben Eltham, New Matilda
The hostility of The Australian newspaper and even some parts of Fairfax and the ABC to the Building the Education Revolution program was particularlydamaging. It helped the Opposition paint Labor as wasteful and incompetent
newmatilda.com/2011/09/06/can-alp-win-yes-they-can

Issue of the week II- Julia Gillard death-watch, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless
Say that she doesn't trust Abbott. Abbott says one thing and does another all the time, why should she negotiate with him?
Call him a flake. Make that float-like-a-butterfly stuff count against him. Make herself out to be the responsible adult in this
andrewelder.blogspot.com/.../...gillard-death.html

Poll Pinata, Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery
The leader of the opposition has been relentless in his blind swinging at the pinata. Many of the blows hit, but did not break it open. In fact if you look at the polls, most of the drops have been a result of events outside of the coalition. As the world markets plunged,
ashghebranious.wordpress.com/.../

Phillip Adams ramps up the pressure on Gillard,Tom Cowie, The Power Index
The left-wing ABC Late Night Live host, who recently came in at number ten on The Power Index's list of most powerful media megaphones, says Gillard has failed in her time as prime minister and should hand the keys to the Lodge back to the man she booted out of office.
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../20110906371

Auction Here For Abbott’s Arse!,
With problems at my preferred site, From a bumchum talking lots of shite,I decided to come here to speak,Not wait for him to turn the other cheek
polliepomes.wordpress.com/.../#comment-76

The end of the Keating-Howard-Rudd-Gillard era?, Geoff Robinson, On Line Opinion
Electoral stability may give way to political upheaval and a revived populist conservatism may challenge the Coalition from the right just as the Greens havechallenged Labor from the left.
www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp

The ALP family: unhappy in its own way, Malcolm Farnsworth, The Drum
Abbott ever-so-carefully set her up for yet another political wedging, the depleted ranks of true believers grimaced and marvelled at Gillard's ineptness.To paraphrase Tolstoy, successful governments are all alike; every unsuccessful government fails in its own way.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2872100.html

2UE 'absolutely' support talkback host ... but suspends him anyway, SMH
The claims were also referred to by News Ltd columnist and blogger Andrew Bolt and repeatedly by Smith, whose station is owned
by Fairfax Media, publisher of this website
www.smh.com.au/.../...m-anyway-20110906-1jvhv.html

If we really cared about the safety of asylum seekers on leaky boats, Jeremy Sear,  An Onymous Lefty
If there’s one thing more absurd than the prospect of a government losing an election because it’s not nasty enough to refugees (and, let’s give it its dues here, it’s trying really hard to be), it’s the hideous gall of the people who pretend that they only want us to damn the refugees in order to “save” them.
http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/

What happened as a result of TPVs and the Pacific Solution?, Bernard Keane, Crikey
That is, 64% ended up being resettled in Australia or elsewhere, and nearly all of the rest — mostly Afghans — returned voluntarily (there areclaims that some of those who returned were later killed in Afghanistan).
www.crikey.com.au/.../


Reflections from a US  Republican Staffer, who left the Cult, Mike Lofgren, Independent Australia
There are tens of millions of low-information voters who hardly know which party controls which branch of government
, let alone which party is pursuing a particular legislative tactic. These voters’ confusion over who did what allows them to
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

Turnbull’s biggest problem: How to halt the NBN, Renai LeMay, Delimeter
It will be very, very hard for Turnbull or any other Communications Minister to stand up on national TV and cancel the NBN … when some 1.7 million households already have it, and the entire industry has restructured itself around the project.
delimiter.com.au/.../

Mining industry pays record $23.4bn in taxes, royalties, David Twomey Eco News
In 2010/11 the industry is expected to pay a record $23.4 billion in taxes and royalties to federal and state governments.AAP newsagency saysthat in releasing the findings yesterday, MCA chief executive Mitch Hooke said the Labor government had used the notion
econews.com.au/.../

A Mess, But No Messiah, Andrew Leigh
My AFR column today is on the myth that WorkChoices was good for productivity. I conclude with a few ideas about what we might do
to raise productivity
http://www.andrewleigh.com/blog/?p=1459

Walkley Foundation Conference Blog
The Great Debate- The House Believes the Media Has Too Much Power
walkleypanc2011.posterous.com/on-stage-nowthe-great-debate-the-house-believ

Why Books Are Better Than Kindle- Bill, Billablog
You can take old books that you no longer want to a book exchange to trade for new books, or at least new-to-you books.
Or you can donate them to libraries or charity shops so they can continue to do good after you’re finished with them.
http://the-billablog.blogspot.com/

lyn

September 7. 2011 07:46 AM

Feral Skeleton

   Good to see the government and Teh Greens have grown a few pairs and decided between them that they will not put up with Opposition Procedural shenanigans when it comes to debating and passing the CPRS legislation through the Senate. Actually, I wish they'd grow another pair and agree to beef up the MRRT and turn it back into the RSPT, especially as that duplicitous bustard, Don Argus, has decamped(oops! maybe I shouldn't say that, ToM might have a hissy fit Laughing ), back to the Opposition pup tent with his erroneous call for increased 'productivity' off the backs of increasingly 'flexible' workers(until their backs break). As Ged Kearney, ACTU President said this morning, how come no one ever highlights the woeful productivity of the bosses, which has been outed in study after study? They need to increase their own productivity before they turn on the workers again, who are still working unpaid overtime, despite the introduction of the Fair Work legislation, just so they can hang onto their jobs or be considered for more shifts.

   It seems as though the Workers must again unite to forestall the cynical reigniting of the WorkChoices flame that was supposed to have been cremated.

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 08:00 AM

2353

Trevor said I would really love to hear someone from the right engage on an intellectual level, explain how Direct Action could reduce CO2E by 5 percent by 2020. And, why it would be a superior policy to a market based mechanism for trading emission credits.  Just as an example say.

A lot of others agree Trevor and have been asking for someone from the blue tribe to discuss this and other issues in a reasonable and rational manner for the past couple of years.  Obviously it can't be done - buggered if I know why.

(And before the "GutterTrash" mob climb out of their preferred residence again - clean up your own backyard first.)

2353

September 7. 2011 08:14 AM

Feral Skeleton

  Well that explains a lot. Just listening to AM and the reporter from Malaysia for the ABC said that the Chin from Burma, have never been inclined to travel by boat. Ergo, theyas refugees, they have never been inclined to take a boat journey to seek refuge in Australia, unlike other groups.
   Which only reinforces my resolve to believe that Australia needs to develop an equitable solution to the regional refugee situation. It should not only involve Onshore Processing of those who arrive by boat because as we can now see, that is a skewed dynamic.

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 08:35 AM

Ad astra reply

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 08:39 AM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
The link to the first item in your links today goes to the Global Comment website but not to the actual article. Could you please repost the link.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 08:43 AM

lyn

Hi Ad

Here it is .

I hope this one is ok.

globalcomment.com/.../

CheersSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 7. 2011 08:56 AM

lyn


Hi Ad

Classic Example of a distorted headline:

Gillard enlists Abbott on asylum compromise James Massola, The Australian

Scroll down the article presto, The truth is:


Mr Abbott will meet with Immigration Department boss Andrew Metcalfe and other government officials at the Brisbane Commonwealth Parliamentary Offices. The officials will brief him on ways to get around the High Court's ruling on the Malaysian solution.

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59nqgy-1226131044933

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 7. 2011 08:57 AM

nasking

the UK Parliamentary Sub-Committee on the Media @ 8.30pm. Probably the best show on TV tonight, for mine. ABC24 are flicking over to it.

Feral,
I reckon Crone was keepin' plenty of info back...playin' the bad memory bit far too often.

What stuck in my mind was his admitting to Watson that he had not received his final payout from News International...apparently was negotiating.

May have had an impact on his approach to dealin' w/ the questions.

Quite frankly, I'm sick & tired of how these bigwig billionaires like Murdoch & his corporation throw around money...buy influence, buy cops, buy sports teams, coverage, legal teams, PIs, air-time, Dow Jones, competing media outlets, so on & so on.

It not only leads to criminal activities...and potentially silencing, influencing witnesses...and creating the news...and undermining the integrity of news media & professional sports...and damaging democracy...and politics...

but it's also bloody uncompetitive behaviour.

Free market my arse...it's RIGGED.

N'

nasking

September 7. 2011 09:09 AM

nasking

Enuff to make ya puke:

Godparenting: what's God got to do with it?

As Tony Blair's appointment as godfather to Rupert Murdoch's daughter shows, godparents aren't just about spiritual guidance, or presents. They're about power, influence and networking

Kira Cochrane guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 6 September 2011

As you'd expect, the family was joined at their daughters' christening in 2010 by their closest intimates: Nicole Kidman, Queen Rania of Jordan, Hugh Jackman, Donald Trump's daughter, and a photographer from Hello! magazine. Also, Tony Blair. Because when God's in the balance, you know who to call.

The revelation in Vogue that Blair is one of Wendi Deng's "closest friends", so much so that he is godfather to her nine-year-old daughter Grace Murdoch, came as a surprise to most people.

And while it provided yet more confirmation of the uncomfortably close links between the Murdoch empire and British politics – a link cemented, in this particular case, in 1997, when the Sun newspaper came out in support of Tony Blair – it also raised questions about the role of the modern godparent. Because what was once seen as a spiritual role or, more recently, a way of drawing your oldest friends into the extended family, here seemed to be about something quite different. In that same Vogue article, Jackman says that Deng wants her children "to have a spiritual life … They go to church and Sunday school regularly." But the appointment of these godparents whiffs of dynastic positioning and the soldering of a relationship that might be of as much use, if not more, to the parents as to their children. Not so much a spiritual calling as a way of toadying your way to the top table...

Of course, this kind of positioning has been going on in the aristocracy for centuries, and the celebrity world for decades...

Some have called this "power godparenting", and to see a master at work, you only have to look to David Cameron, who has strengthened his political and professional network no end through his choice of godparents. The prime minister's director of strategy, Steve Hilton, and his wife, Rachel Whetstone, were godparents to his son Ivan. It has been suggested that education secretary Michael Gove and his wife Sarah Vine are godparents to the prime minister's youngest child, Florence. And chancellor George Osborne and David Cameron are godfathers to each other's children – although in a 2009 interview, Cameron strongly denied this would stop him sacking Osborne...

When I ask William Cash, editor-in-chief of Spear's, a magazine for "high-net-worth individuals", whether the role of the modern godparent has changed he says: "Definitely. The ultra-rich tend to compete with each other in obscure ways, and one is that they can afford to have lots of children – and not only children, but a whole network of godchildren. And it is definitely a network. It's a way of taking care of all sorts of potential employment opportunities. It's quite calculated and almost Medici-like in its aspirations."

Cash says he has come across quite a few people "who sack their godparents and move on. It's the ultimate form of social climbing, you could say. Girls or boys of 12 or 13 will fire one of their godparents, perhaps because they're not influential or useful enough, and then adopt another one...


much more here:

www.guardian.co.uk/.../tony-blair-godparents-power-networking

Seems I was right in referrin' to them as the "corporate aristocracy".

So much for a functioning participatory democracy for ALL.

N'

nasking

September 7. 2011 09:18 AM

TalkTurkey

TalkTurkey asked

What's the difference between Trolls, and fireworks that have got damp?

Answer: Damp fireworks, their wicks are phut . . . Wink

FUN WITH TROLLS!

TalkTurkey

September 7. 2011 09:25 AM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
Thanks - the Global Comment link now works:  globalcomment.com/.../

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 09:30 AM

Jason

TT,
  Then you have the other type! you know the "professional victim"! those who need to be "outraged" on someone elses behalf! Under bridge dwellers indeed.

Jason

September 7. 2011 09:51 AM

Trevor

I am conscious of not wanting to appear precious here, but... Does anyone else find the ABC dedicating an entire comedy show to sending up the PM as a bit disturbing?  I am quite OK with political lampooning, the Gillies Report being the standout then of course Chaser has been at it for a while.  But a whole show sending up the PM and partner?  I think it may even be a series, happy to be corrected if it is not.  
Of course I havent seen it so I may be going off half cocked.  Can anyone remember a comparable example of political comedy show being dedicated to one target?

Trevor

September 7. 2011 09:55 AM

Patricia WA

Morning TT - you missed a busy day yesterday, and we missed you!  But this you mustn't miss.  misswww.zapiks.com/.../player.swf.

I've just been enjoying the Milne clip again. I also had fun watching others there, particularly The Chasers with the Mosman Moslem mosque skit.  What a pity they aren't out there debunking Newspoll right now.

Patricia WA

September 7. 2011 09:59 AM

nasking

Impressive & useful performance by ALP member for Moreton Graham Perrett on this morning's SKY Agenda...left Lib's dreary Paul Fletcher gaspin' for air.

Check out Perrett's site:

http://www.grahamperrettmp.com/

Interesting:

Perrett has represented the seat of Moreton, Queensland, since the 2007 Australian federal election where he ended Gary Hardgrave's 11 year term in office with a 7.6% swing.

Perrett described the victory as surprising, stating "In my wildest dreams I certainly didn't expect that the seat would be decided as early as it was".

Perrett also claimed the victory, over a former multicultural affairs minister, could be put down to the fact that "people are ready for hope and aren't prepared to stick with the tired old fear factor of John Howard".

A major issue in the 2007 Moreton campaign was the Australian Labor Party (on behalf of Perrett) branding Perrett's rival, Gary Hardgrave, a "racist", after the standing member said that Moreton was being "exhausted" by the influx of African refugees.

Perrett campaigned primarily on issues relating to health and education in the lead up to the election, whilst Hardgrave focused primarily on roads, according to a radio interview.
(wikipedia)

Good that the ALP called the Lib out on dog whistling. It just divides our community that crap. We can't affored around here to be anythin' but united. As evidenced after the Logan fire. People are people, whatever their background. We all bleed the same.

I'm glad that Perrett is also focusin' on roads & infrastructure now...the ALP both state & federal have done heaps here in Sth East Qld the past few years. It's very useful.

Focusin' on insurers who need to payout over floods is good too...and the defence industry stuff w/ Jason Clare.

Trades training stuff is handy too if they are in his area. And access to malls including parking etc. for disabled & elderly. And bulk billing services.

N'

nasking

September 7. 2011 10:25 AM

Jason

I see that some like to question the PM's "judgement" when it comes to the "thomson" matter! How is it then that the leader of the Opposition's parliamentary secretary "Cory Bernardi" who has form on these matters isn't sitting on the back bench?

"
THE ultra-conservative MP Cory Bernardi has provoked outrage in his party by offering to assist an Islamaphobic Dutch politician who is planning on visiting Australia.

Geert Wilders, who holds the balance of power in the Dutch parliament, likened the Koran to Mein Kampf and called the Prophet Muhammad a paedophile, told ABC radio yesterday of plans to come to Australia by early next year.

Senator Bernardi met Mr Wilders on a recent trip to the Netherlands. ''He did indicate that he was considering coming to Australia and I extended an invitation to assist him with his schedule or arranging appropriate meetings,'' he said.

The revelation has angered moderate members of the Liberal Party and renewed calls for the senator, parliamentary secretary to the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, to be dumped from the frontbench.

The Herald understands some senior Liberal frontbenchers were intending yesterday to raise Senator Bernardi's behaviour with Mr Abbott.

One Liberal said sacking him would make him a martyr and it would be better if he were dumped at the end of the year when Mr Abbott is expected to undertake a minor frontbench reshuffle. ''Cory has crossed the line,'' the MP said.

However, after Mr Abbott became aware of the issue, Senator Bernardi issued a further news release ''clarifying'' his position.

''I wish to make it very clear that neither I nor the Coalition are organising a visit to Australia by Mr Wilders. Mr Wilders's travel arrangements are a matter for Mr Wilders,'' he said.

Mr Wilders, who was banned from entering Britain in 2009 after he was found to be an ''undesirable person'', may struggle to pass the character test to be allowed into Australia.



Read more: www.smh.com.au/.../...-wilders-20110906-1jvyi.html


Read more: www.smh.com.au/.../...-wilders-20110906-1jvyi.html

Jason

September 7. 2011 10:50 AM

Tom of Melbourne

There are ample reasons for the legitimate criticism of the performance of government. To suggest that the media is the significant driver of public antipathy towards the government is to ignore reality.

For a change, just trace some actual history.

Rudd talked up climate change and Australia’s role in participating in an international solution. He over talked and oversold the issue for political opportunism.

He lost his credibility and political authority when he backed down from his commitments.  Copenhagen was the cause of this, not the media. The media reported his back down, the public lost confidence in him.

Then the ALP hacks and warlords knifed him. The move against Rudd wasn’t even known to, or organised by, to the caucus.

It was a particularly bad look, and the media didn’t cause the hacks to behave in this duplicitous manner.

Gillard committed to “no carbon tax” at a critical stage of the election campaign. She made this commitment for political expediency; the issue was electoral dead weight.

She then agreed to a carbon tax, also for political expediency. The public recognises duplicity when it sees it, an antipathy followed. The media didn’t cause this breach of commitment; it was the Prime Minister’s choice.

For some additional background…

The stimulus spending was predicated on unemployment reaching 10%, it was intended to take 2% off this. The spending continued unabated long after it became clear that unemployment was going nowhere near the forecast. Spending continued for political, rather than economic, reasons.

The poor allocation of this spending has limited the ability of future governments to respond to economic down turns, both politically and financially.

The BER replaced some run down facilities in public schools. That’s acknowledged.

But around a $billion was spent in wealthy private schools.</b> In my suburb alone Trinity and Xavier (sitting right next to each other, on the same block) both got performing arts centres, so did Carey. Scotch has a “mini amphitheatre” among other facilities; Genazzano and MLC got various new sporting facilities. There are tens, if of millions (not near a hundred) spend just around the corner here, all public funds, wasted on schools that charge about $20,000 a year in fees!

The media hasn’t even bothered to highlight this waste!

The HIP was a debacle. Any Occupational Health & Safety expert will advise that if you bring to an industry a huge influx of inexperienced subcontractors, you’ll get safety problems. Overlay this with some avaricious subbies eager to get their hands on public money, the outcome could have been predicted (and some did).

But the government continued to spend after the safety problems were highlighted.

The media reported problems. Should they have ignored them?

East Timor and Malaysia announcements have been precipitous. The outcomes did not follow the government policy. The LAP participated in the grubby deionisation of asylum seekers. The media didn’t cause Julia to say – “another boat, another policy failure”. She did that willingly, for political expedience.

ALP barrackers choose to ignore the legitimate criticisms of the government, it is so much easier to “blame the media”

Tom of Melbourne

September 7. 2011 11:02 AM

2353

Anyone seen this story on NoNews???

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0110906-1jw1z.html


Spending survey shows we are better off than we think

Relatively cheaper ... petrol eats up less of our wallets than it did six years ago. You would not believe it if you listened to our politicians, but household fuel and power bills eat up no more of our wallets than they did six years ago. And petrol eats up less.

2353

September 7. 2011 11:22 AM

Jason

Tom,
   The "HIP" debacle you speak of didn't happen here in SA, due to the fact the building industry is fairly well regulated!
Unless you have a "Builders Licence" you cant do the work.
This was the case even before the "Government" introduced the scheme.
No reporting either that the state "Building" laws on the east coast where just about all the problems were, turned out to be so wanting!
As they say ToM bad news sells  

Jason

September 7. 2011 11:27 AM

Ad astra reply

Casablanca
That was the first time I had seen the YouTube clip of the Glenn Milne attack on Stephen Mayne.   Thank you for posting the link.

Milne seems to be running out of work options.  As they fade, he seems to resort to even more outrageously grubby journalism.

I’ve written only one piece devoted to him: Glenn Milne the mischievous journalist back in November 2008.  
www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...s-journalist.aspx

When I re-read it just now I could see that although the political scene has changed, Milne has not – he is the same purveyor of scuttlebutt, the same mastermind of innuendo, the same whisperer of gossip empty of evidence.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 11:32 AM

M&#246;bius Ecko

If TomM can copy and paste across blogs then so can I

TomM chooses to ignore legitimate criticisms of the Abbott opposition and goes with the beat up of both the opposition and their MSM mouthpieces.

He wants to solely focus on first the Rudd government and now the Gillard government. And will he be as scathing of an Abbott government? The answer to that is obvious.

And I again iterate why should blogs solely bash this government? What rule is there that says a blog has to do this? If you are so concerned about bias then why aen’t you jumping into the right wing blogs and making the same criticism of their one sideness?

Or that of Ltd News? Why aren’t you constantly criticising them and their obvious failures to accurately report on the government?

How come your concern of bias and favouritism almost solely goes to positive things being commented on about Labor governments?

What rule anywhere says that governments should only receive bashings and their successes, like 188 unamended and implemented policies in one year, should not be written about?

What rule says that the failure of an opposition, the worst this country has seen and one that has not ammended or had input into a single policy, and one that has failed scrutiny in every policy it has put up, cannot be held to account and held up as the alternate government of this country?

And what rule says that you tell blogs how they should be run? Who gave you that power and if you are so concerned that you believe blogs aren’t doing their job on bashing this government, well then start your own and bash away to your hearts content, make the rules to your liking and jump on anyone who comes in to praise Gillard and/or bash Abbott?

Möbius Ecko

September 7. 2011 11:35 AM

Ad astra reply

Patricia WA
I did enjoy the clip you posted.  What an amazing dog, and what a clever advertisement.

Nasking
Isn’t it good to see a Labor politician getting credit for doing his job well?

Jason
That’s an interesting link.  What an awful photo of Geert Wilders!  As the paper was not unwilling to publish such an unflattering image, I presume it is disapproving of this man and his association with Cory Bernardi.  Although the latter holds similar views about Islam, I see he’s running from Wilders now that his party members have kicked up.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 11:39 AM

Ad astra reply

Möbius Ecko
Welcome back to TPS.

I agree with every word you have written.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 11:47 AM

M&#246;bius Ecko

<a href="web.overland.org.au/.../"; rel="nofollow">For non-legals: a guide to the High Court’s ruling</a>

A very good piece (and very long) on the recent High Court decision, written for the layman and one that shows Abbott's refugee policy is as much a failure as Gillard's.

So in the name of balance shouldn't his significant policy failure be highlighted as much as the government's?

Möbius Ecko

September 7. 2011 11:47 AM

Ad astra reply

2353
What an informative article, so revealing of the disingenuousness of much of the cost of living hype.  Peter Martin is one of the most honest of political economics correspondents.  He is not driven by the political agenda of his boss.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 11:52 AM

Jason

Tom,
   No doubt more bad news to be distorted by your "Fiberal Mates"!
So we have “households are doing great” ( www.smh.com.au/.../...we-think-20110906-1jw1z.html )

And we had
GDP rose 1.2% in June quarter
www.news.com.au/.../story-e6frfku0-1226131270315

Jason

September 7. 2011 11:57 AM

Ad astra reply

Trevor
I’m awaiting the ‘At home with Julia’ series with some trepidation, but will reserve judgement until I see it.  It seems as if it has not set out to outrageously lampoon her, so it may be humorous but innocuous.  It may have the contrary effect of making her more appealing to those who like to judge her unsympathetically or dislike her, except of course those who have irretrievably made up their minds that she can do no good, ever.

As I understand it, Julia herself has made no objection to the series, so she is showing she is willing to be the subject of ribbing and even ridicule.  Mind you, don’t expect her to get any credit for that.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 12:00 PM

lyn

Hi Möbius Ecko

I was just about to reply to you, Ad Astra echoes my thoughts.

Thankyou for your brilliant post, most enjoyable commonsense.
Adoration for this para:

And what rule says that you tell blogs how they should be run? Who gave you that power and if you are so concerned that you believe blogs aren’t doing their job on bashing this government, well then start your own and bash away to your hearts content

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 7. 2011 12:09 PM

Jason

Aa,
  This is being passed off as News!

www.abc.net.au/.../2874622

Jason

September 7. 2011 12:19 PM

Jason

reb,
   "judgement" you were on about yesterday? I noticed whilst sticking the boot into the PM you were somewhat silent on this!

Senator's shoplifting case back in court

Updated September 07, 2011 11:55:35

Prosecutors have taken instructions from the Crown Solicitor and intend proceeding with charges against a Liberal Senator.
www.abc.net.au/.../2874954

Now I know it's before the courts, but as I said yesterday "Thomson" is yet to be charged with anything!

Jason

September 7. 2011 12:19 PM

nasking

I didn't know that legislating for gay marriage would automatically render every marriageable male in the country gay.

jane,
I've often wondered about the obsession that some politicians have w/ knocking gays & lesbians and their pursuit of equal rights under the law.

I often wonder if they are insecure about their own manhood...it's as if they were given a hard time at school and attacked for not bein' male ocker enuff or somethin'...they feel the need to overcompensate by attacking others...not realising that as individuals we are diverse beings not just biologically determined but also socially, environmentally affected...and as individuals we should try to be comfortable in our own shoes...

rather than conforming to distorted dominant ideological views and values promoted by the likes of the ocker Murdoch empire, fundy church preaching, patriarchal bossy control freak corporate bosses, and sports/entertainment figures who act like we're still in the pioneer days.

We have & will evolve as humans into diverse communities adapting to the technological, environmental, cultural & political economic demands...differences will be evident based on our levels of connectivity to technology (plugged in, human mech hybrids)...relationship w/ other species - possibly even alien species - levels of nutrition, access to foods & other substances...our use of mind & body stimulating drugs etc....our cultural, familial structures, laws etc...

the idea that there is somehow an optimal form of relationship...and normal human characteristics is absurd and reductionist...and to me assertions of such indicates the character makin' the claims is narrow & myopic thinkin' in the extreme...and is not adaptin' appropriately to a world that wobbles naturally...is filled w/ chaos, inconsistencies...and challenges...where ideas collide and possibly to something useful and worth pursuing as an experiment...

some things should however be inalienable rights...universal and self-evident...the right to be treated equally, fairly by others in yer community...not have yer status diminished by bigotry and discrimination...

so if many s have the legal right to express their love by way of a marriage bond but the criteria is based upon bein' heterosexual, one can only expect that our homosexual friends & family should feel distanced, outcast, aggrieved and discriminated against...

this is not beneficial for a community that hopes to function productively and peacefully...

rather, it permits deniers of rights based on unproven facts (religion) to dominate and create disharmony...causing fractures in society.

Lack of self-worth, questioning of one's own sexuality, and religious beliefs based on mythology and patriarchal, homophobic dictates should not determine the laws of our land...but rather should be used to determine alternative pathways to ensure a "fair-go-for-all".

Barnaby comes across to me as an opportunistic, insecure individual who is attempting to gain attention, stature & influence by resorting to archaic cultural practices & stances...and offensive behaviour...

another weathervane apt to dog whistling when it suits his or his party's or his master's agenda...

but also a man in a desperate attempt to be accepted by what her perceives as "ocker Australia".

As a craven caterer to populism he reveals a distinct One Nation flavour...and based on current overseas conflicts seems to be willing to play up "the crusading nationalist" bit...not unlike his mate Abbott...which probably puts him in the Neo-CON camp...leading me to assume he will betray his protectionist assertions and small farmers in his headlong rush to conform to the expectations of the profiteering corporate aristocracy he seems so keen to be a part of.

I see nothing original, progressive or useful about this type of politician...unless we required a bombastic barbarian or faux cowboy in some kind of dark ages war.

Hopefully the world is becomin' enlightened enuff these days and will evolve beyond the need for such extreme scaremongering nationalists & tricky dick cowboys. And Joyce will wake up to himself.

Joyce's type bore the crap outa me...like the long line of male tough guy westerns & war movies that run on Fox Classics channel ad nauseum...like backdoor military recruitment films and propaganda...

And when barnaby does his tough man act...it reminds me of the neighbours who tear up their car's tyres on our roads in pathetic & dangerous attempts to prove they are well-endowed...and will take sh*t from noone...and people who fly flags on their cars and in front of their houses in order to prove they are not outsiders.

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

Barnaby should find himself a desert island to work out his religious & cultural identity problems. Perhaps the seagulls will make for a good audience.

At least he'd do less damage there...take his mate Tony w/ him.

N'

nasking

September 7. 2011 12:26 PM

nasking

but also a man in a desperate attempt to be accepted by what her perceives as "ocker Australia".

that should be "he perceives"

N'

nasking

September 7. 2011 12:56 PM

reb of Hobart

Jason,

Sorry, I've been a bit distracted..

I agree, the Mary Jo Fisher thing is a disgrace - especially with the revelations that her office tried to heavy the supermarket into dropping the charges.

They should throw the book at her, but no doubt she'll claim that she was depressed at the time or some such...

Pathtic isn't it?

As to the Thomson affair, I think it's a bit different...

Thomson has admitted to approving charges on his credit card statement that were made to brothels, as well as lavish lunches and cash withdrawals.

He claims that someone else used the brothel services, but won't say whom.

Gillard comes out and says that he enjoys her "full confidence."

Irrespective of whether he's been charged with a crime or not, don't you think that it's a gross abuse of union members' fees to be squandered on prostitutes?

Not to mention the $100,000 in cash withdrawals?

Conveniently, there is an absence of any paperwork to determine what the $100,000 was spent on, but I would suggest that with or without criminal charges, using an employer's credit card for prostitutes is at the very least ethically wrong.

Gillard would've been wise to let proper procedures take their course before coming out swinging in his defence.

A position, that I note, she is now somewhat silent on...

























reb of Hobart

September 7. 2011 01:01 PM

TalkTurkey

PatriciaWA

I was on deck yesterday, (I posted that riddle yeah?), and thank you for that Zapiks surfer dog, but I actually had seen him about a week ago, he's surfed around the world that dog!  I wonder how he'd go in real surf rather than on skim-boards and skate boards, looked to me he'd handle that too!

As a matter of fact I did a nice long post with a pome too about Sir Jane and Sir You and Sir several others, then before I posted it I went on a goosechase, forgot what I was doing, Fwttt! again. Bum. I've done it so many times, no good telling me how not to, I'm thick as Yarra mud. And I can never write it again nearly as I did first.

I wrote a bit about our trolls, Gee Swordsfolks Why do you worry? Can they harm us, No! Can they even distract us, not if we don't let 'em! They are there for our fun!, for us to deride but not take seriously, taking them seriously gives them a patina of credibility. And if you don't want anything to do with them, don't have anything to do with them!

They know what I think of them, I told them long ago, individually and generally: they're so pathetic, not clever, not funny, can't answer anything straight, nothing new, WHY BOTHER? When the mood takes me I write something oblique about them, but I shall not address them directly again, and I bid you Goodwillians, just don't get sucked in by Ill-willians! Time you realized you're fighting fire with gasoline, and you will not prevail, only bring down the tone of this splendid public notice board. They are Murdoch's sycophantic little lickspittles, and Swordsfolks I entreat you straitly, DO NOT PLAY THEIR GAME! Addressing them directly means that you inevitably end up using terms of abuse like Merdeoch's bumboys, terms I would never use myself, buggered if I would. Smile Well actually that's true, I wouldn't use a term like that of anyone in particular though I might well think of them in those terms.

Be it noted, I have always proffered the promise of respect to such few trolls as we have, if they were to want it, but they have never earnt anything but my contempt, almost uncanny how they can be so universally nasty, but get used to it, they're there, can't change that, but can ignore it.

It's not like with CB Radio, where bloody bucketmouths could drown out rational conversation. These people can't touch us!  

We have Wonkleys to win this very year, and our long game is to help keep this government in power, as well as to influence it in ways we think wise. Ad deserves it, the site deserves it, all you goodwillians deserve it to be held in respect. This needs to be a site that keeps its focus.

I am real serious here. Please, HAVE FUN WITH TROLLS!
. . . or ignore them altogether.  

Oh yeah, and one more thing, if they ever should say anything helpful at all, (if!), stroke and pat and tickle them half to death!    

TalkTurkey

September 7. 2011 01:02 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

Um wonder what Mr Abbott has to say about Cory Bernardi.

Jason just put up an excellent link to Mary Jo Fisher's lastest
news.  Amusing that the Lawyers said Ms Groot had no authority. So looks like no-ones got any authority over their own arm getting squashed in a door repeatedly.

Labor senator Kate Lundy asks Tony Abbott to say whether he backs Geert Wilders visit, herald Sun   10:52AM

Liberal senator Cory Bernardi has offered to help with his schedule and to arrange meetings

"We have a right to know whether Mr Abbott is supporting his parliamentary secretary's sponsorship of Mr Wilders' visit to Australia."

She said Senator Bernardi was sponsoring Mr Wilders' visit "like he was some sort of rock star".


www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-e6frf7jx-1226131225166

lyn

September 7. 2011 01:06 PM

reb of Hobart

But, but, but what about workplace flexibility????

The employer campaign to bring back Workchoices just hit a wall. June Qtr Growth +1.2%, Productivity +1.0%, Real Unit Labour costs -0.7%

reb of Hobart

September 7. 2011 01:41 PM

Ad astra reply

Möbius Ecko
Thank you for posting the link to the High Court Ruling.

BTW, there is no need for the opening <a href… as you can just paste the link as it is.
web.overland.org.au/.../for-non-legals-a-guide-to-the-high-court’s-ruling/

Also this blog engine uses square brackets instead of the usual angle brackets around tags.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 02:02 PM

nasking

I refuse to believe that the Coalition under Tony Abbott & previously John Howard were involved in One Nation style activities in order to get the votes of racists & xenephobes:

Tampa affair
In August 2001, the Howard Government of Australia refused permission for the Norwegian freighter MV Tampa, carrying 438 rescued Afghans from a distressed fishing vessel in international waters, to enter Australian waters. This triggered an Australian political controversy in the lead up to a federal election, and a diplomatic dispute between Australia and Norway.
(wikipedia)



No way would the Coalition exploit tragedies & their victims to get the votes of racists & xenephobes:


Broadcast: 15/2/2002
Howard under siege to explain overboard scandal
Lateline's Friday forum examines the "children overboard" scandal that has grown in intensity during the week. Since tabling the report the Prime Minister commissioned into the veracity of his own controversial election claim that asylum seekers had thrown their children overboard, John Howard has been under siege to explain why the false claims were never withdrawn.


http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/stories/s482891.htm


Never, I repeat NEVER, have the Coalition resorted to using underhanded tactics to stir up xenephobia & hatred in the community in order to get votes:


The Lindsay pamphlet scandal was an Australian electoral scandal in which Liberal Party volunteers distributed fake election pamphlets, claiming to be from an Islamic organisation that was later found not to exist, that claimed the Labor Party candidate would support clemency for convicted terrorists and the construction of a mosque in the local area. The incident made national and even international headlines on November 21, 2007, four days before the 2007 Australian Federal election.

The retiring Liberal member of parliament representing the federal Division of Lindsay, Jackie Kelly, was forced to explain why her husband, local orthodontist Gary Clark, was caught distributing the pamphlets with four other people. The pamphlets, claiming to be from "The Islamic Australia Federation", thanked the Australian Labor Party (ALP) for supporting terrorists involved with the 2002 Bali bombings. The scandal disrupted the election campaign of Prime Minister John Howard.
(wikipedia)



Tony Abbott's crew are not like One Nation at all...they would never use dog whistle politics to benefit politically, no way!!!:


On December 8 2009, Morrison became Shadow Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, coming into the cabinet for the first time during Tony Abbott's first cabinet reshuffle shortly after winning leadership. He now serves on the Shadow Cabinet Committee on Border Protection. Abbott described Morrison as "a great talent who was one of the bright new stars of the new generation of MPs."

In December 2010, at least 30 asylum seekers died in the Christmas Island boat disaster. On 15 February 2011, Morrison caused controversy when he publicly questioned the decision of the Gillard federal Labor government to pay for relatives of the victims to travel to funerals in Sydney. After fellow Liberal and shadow treasurer Joe Hockey denounced Morrison's statements, Morrison said that the timing of his comments was insensitive, but did not back away from the comments themselves.
(wikipedia)



It's obvious to me that Tony Abbott & his mob are a tolerant & wide thinkin' bunch...not moral crusaders...and sh*t stirrers...they're united in their respect for other nations:


Abbott, Bishop spat over aid cuts Phillip Coorey
February 10, 2011

THE deputy Opposition Leader and spokeswoman on foreign affairs, Julie Bishop, has demanded Tony Abbott take responsibility for the Coalition's proposal to cut foreign aid to Indonesian schools.

The Herald has learnt a fuming Ms Bishop stormed into her leader's office yesterday morning after reading in a newspaper an implication she had proposed the $448 million budget cut.

Liberal MPs told the Herald Ms Bishop, who vehemently resisted any cuts to the foreign aid budget during shadow cabinet discussions, accused Mr Abbott of being behind the story and demanded he take public responsibility for the idea, which has been roundly criticised in foreign policy circles.


www.smh.com.au/.../...aid-cuts-20110209-1an1x.html


People are imagining it...the Coalition are not trying to fear-monger & divide our community...it's not in their DNA:


Senator under fire for ties to Wilders
Dylan Welch, Phillip Coorey, Kirsty Needham September 07, 2011

THE ultra-conservative MP Cory Bernardi has provoked outrage in his party by offering to assist an Islamaphobic Dutch politician who is planning on visiting Australia.

Geert Wilders, who holds the balance of power in the Dutch parliament, likened the Koran to Mein Kampf and called the Prophet Muhammad a paedophile, told ABC radio yesterday of plans to come to Australia by early next year.

Senator Bernardi met Mr Wilders on a recent trip to the Netherlands. ''He did indicate that he was considering coming to Australia and I extended an invitation to assist him with his schedule or arranging appropriate meetings,'' he said.

The revelation has angered moderate members of the Liberal Party and renewed calls for the senator, parliamentary secretary to the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, to be dumped from the frontbench.

The Herald understands some senior Liberal frontbenchers were intending yesterday to raise Senator Bernardi's behaviour with Mr Abbott.


m.smh.com.au/.../...to-wilders-20110906-1jvyi.html


For God's sake, it's not a pattern of behaviour:


Abbott in bid to reopen Nauru centre
Simon Cullen and wires
Updated June 11, 2011

Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott will fly to Nauru today to see first-hand the immigration detention centre he wants reopened.

The Opposition has been pressuring the Government to reopen the detention centre on the tiny Pacific Island nation.

The Refugee Action Coalition said Nauru's detention centre was a "hell hole" and labelled Mr Abbott's trip a "cheap publicity stunt".

"No doubt Abbott hopes the media will follow him to Nauru and he can get another soundbite or two to pursue his anti-refugee politicking," the coalition's Ian Rintoul said.


www.abc.net.au/.../2754802


You're all mad I tell ya...all mad...there is no xenephobe stirring, race-baiting, dog whistling conspiracy here to get votes One Nation style...our beloved Australian Coalition & its supporters would never opportunistically risk torching our country to win elections:


Alan Jones: I'm the person that's led this charge
By David Marr, Sydney
December 13, 2005

BY THURSDAY last week Alan Jones was screaming like a race caller whose horse was coming home. "I'm the person that's led this charge here. Nobody wanted to know about North Cronulla, now it's gathered to this."

The riot was still three days away and Sydney's highest-rating breakfast radio host had a heap of anonymous emails to whip his 2GB listeners along. "Alan, it's not just a few Middle Eastern bastards at the weekend, it's thousands. Cronulla is a very long beach and it's been taken over by this scum. It's not a few causing trouble. It's all of them."

Sunday's trouble did not come out of the blue. It was brewing all week on talkback radio — particularly on 2GB.

Radio doesn't get much grimmer than Alan Jones' efforts in the days before the Cronulla riot. He was dead keen for a demo at the beach — "a rally, a street march, call it what you will. A community show of force."

He assured his huge audience he "understood" why that famous text message went out and he read it right through again on air. "Come to Cronulla this weekend to take revenge. This Sunday every Aussie in the Shire get down to North Cronulla to support the Leb and wog bashing day …"

Daily he cautioned his listeners not to take the law into their own hands, but he warmed to listeners who had exactly that on their minds.



AHHH, STUFF YAS ALL...YER A BUNCH OF BLOODY COMMIES...EVERYONE OF YA...

hey! if the market crashes that bleedin' Gillard better bail out my bank...and my son's farm...we're the blood & soil of this nation...bloody commie
.

N'





nasking

September 7. 2011 02:06 PM

nasking

Make that "xenophobes".
Wouldn't be me w/out the odd spelling error. Sigh.

N'

nasking

September 7. 2011 03:15 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

I don't know what to think now, This is a new report:

Government officials warn of unrest after flood of boats if offshore processing is abandoned ,
Stefanie Balogh at 2.59pm The Australian


MORE than 600 boatpeople a month would flood into Australian waters unless offshore processing is revived as a policy option, Tony Abbott was to be told by government officials today.

Labor has been warned, and the Opposition Leader was expected to be told, that onshore-only processing would overwhelm the immigration detention network within about one year.

And, inevitably, the asylum-seekers that were part of that influx would be released into the community.

This could, in the long-term, change the nature of Australian society, leading to European-style disharmony, Mr Abbott was to be told in the special briefing in Brisbane to be led by Department of Immigration secretary Andrew Metcalfe.


Labor has been advised the Malaysian people swap deal remains the best policy option to bust the people-smuggling trade

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn9hm1gu-1226131459089

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 7. 2011 03:40 PM

Feral Skeleton

   Want to know why the Liberal workers handing out How to Votes behave the way they do? Want to know why Tony Abbott always comes out with that manic cackle when he gets pinged for doing or saying something wrong? Want to know why he manifests his Budgie Smugglers and Lycra for all the world to see? Want to know why all Liberals seem to do it? Well read on:

   media.crikey.com.au/.../campaign-manual.pdf

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 03:45 PM

Feral Skeleton

reb,
     As you continue to cast aspersions about Craig Thomson's culpability wrt the Credit Card matter, and as you have not replied to the substance of the article I linked to which helps to explain a lot about the matter, could you therefore explain to us why you are continuing to react the way you are?

www.news.com.au/.../story-e6frfkvr-1226123316189

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 03:51 PM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
My guess is that whatever advice is offered to Tony Abbott, he will take only what suits him – Nauru, and perhaps Manus Island – and will reject the Malaysia arrangement because it is a Labor ‘solution’.

He simply rejects anything that doesn’t suit him politically.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 03:58 PM

Ad astra reply

FS
That is base politics, really base.  But I suppose it works for them.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 04:06 PM

TalkTurkey

MORE FUN WITH TROLLS!

It appears that someone has read his own name into what I said earlier! Nowhere have I mentioned his name, (not for many months anyway, if ever!) - This is so amusant! This dope (whom I will still not name, just to keep my escutcheon spotless) thinks I must have meant him, (and perhaps he has good reason, you know, if the cap fits), but he chose it after all. First it appears he got who he was talking about mixed up, then he named me while lying about me, not bad for one sentence!

Then of course his whole sentence is gobbledegook because his whole sentence is gobbledegook because and so on.

I think he'd be better sticking to D'urrhhhh? Smile

This is what I'm told the self-outed troll said in another place:
September 7, 2011 2:26 pm
"Sorry, I meant “Talk Turkey” a participant at TPS, who’s been writing long posts slagging me of (sicTT) as a right-wing troll, despite my (IN)-articulate, (IM)-pertinent and (UN)-balanced observations."
(Corrections in bold upper case mine. TT)
Note that even the word *observations* is false!

Seems Trolls know who they are!

S'pose there's no chance of retraction and apology? Hee hee.

PS Anybody know who he thought he was talking about first?

Oh and perhaps somebody might ask him why he thought I did mean him! Wink

Yep. FUN WITH TROLLS! Je t'adore!

TalkTurkey

September 7. 2011 04:08 PM

Jason

Aa,
  LTD News has an imposter! I know I posted the GDP figures earlier but hows this?

Andrew Bolt
Wednesday, September 07, 2011 at 01:43pm

Good news for us - and even better for a battered government:

THE Australian economy grew at a brisker pace than expected in the second quarter as it continued to recover from the devastating floods earlier this year.

Gross domestic product climbed 1.2 per cent in the June quarter, compared with a revised 0.9 per cent contraction in the March quarter, the Australian Bureau of Statistics said today.

Economists, on average, had expected a 1 per cent rise in GDP.
blogs.news.com.au/.../gillards_good_news#89829

Jason

September 7. 2011 04:14 PM

Feral Skeleton

   This is absolutely brilliant satire and taking the piss out of Andrew Bolt by Stephen Mayne:

   Mayne: who will last longer — Julia Gillard or Rupert Murdoch?
by Stephen Mayne

Andrew Bolt is the Australian political commentator most heavily supported and promoted by the besieged Murdoch family. If Murdoch devotees at News Corp and Network Ten are wondering why the ALP finds Bolt a touch biased, they should read the following very precise re-write of his Saturday column in the Herald Sun.

The same hysterical language Bolt used against Julia Gillard is applied to facts — yes, facts — related to Bolt’s employer, Rupert Murdoch.

While Glenn Milne has been sacked by Insiders and shock jock Michael Smith sidelined by 2UE, News Ltd has seemingly done nothing to discipline Bolt for his role in the notorious Gillard smear after he even bullied executive chairman John Hartigan into submission.

Even worse, Bolt’s page in the Herald Sun today contained another extraordinary attack on Gillard complete with an appalling mock-up of the PM stumbling into an early grave. Talk about provocative!

Anyway, as the Australian political class ponder the need for a British-style media inquiry into media abuse of power, here is Bolt’s Saturday hysteria demanding the removal of a democratically elected prime minister, re-directed at Murdoch …

Queen’s reign is at an end, but who will be our king?

By Andrew Bolt (as told to Stephen Mayne)

Rupert Murdoch’s leadership could be over in just a few weeks. He’s suddenly out of tricks and out of time.

The British Parliamentary committee has humiliated the News Corp executive chairman, and shattered the morale of his directors, executives and journalists.

By paying himself a record $US33 million in 2010-11 — his last desperate attempt to claim he is a top executive capable of turning around the phone hacking scandal — Murdoch confirmed what most News Corp shareholder already believed.

He is simply incompetent.

His grand promise to clean up the phone hacking mess by shutting the News of the World will join all the other duds that he proposed and then hastily dumped in recent year — the Iraq invasion that nobody wanted, the MySpace acquisition that was laughed out of existence and the $US2.8 billion Dow Jones write-down that he was too embarrassed to mention again.

That is an astonishing record of failure.

Rupert Murdoch’s judgment is appalling. This image of a bungler, able to poleaxe an entire newspaper in a single fit of panic, will stick for good to Murdoch after this week.

But that still doesn’t explain why he has run out of time.

Another reputation Murdoch will never shake is that he’s untrustworthy. No other executive chairman has prolonged their mandate to 58 years by denying a vote to 70% of the shares on issue.

But that doesn’t explain Murdoch running out of time, either.

He also lacks authority — in fact or in bearing. He is dependent on sycophantic children, hand-picked directors and a questionable Saudi prince, which makes him look weak.

He didn’t call the British MPs’ bluff, daring them to lock him up, which means he really is weak.

Yet even then, Murdoch could have hoped for time. In fact, he counted on it.

In 2010, at the News Corp annual meeting, he told his already jittery shareholders that he needed just two years to turn around 15 years of share price underperformance.

It was an appeal for time — time to destroy critics who didn’t believe he truly was committing News Corp to be carbon neutral to help save the planet.

His theory overlooked two big problems. One is that it assumed Murdoch would not make more mistakes in the meantime.

Oops.

The other is that it assumed he actually did have two years.

False.

An election within 10 months is likely.

Now calculate what shape News Corp will be in at a special EGM in June 2012 with Murdoch in charge.

His promises will seem empty. His achievements will be none. His failures will be plenty. His carbon neutral promise will still be just a threat, not a reality.

Murdoch will be slaughtered.

A June 2012 board election would also mean time is running out for Murdoch’s possible challengers, who need several months at least to fix his mess and show they can run a boringly capable company.

Those challengers are Chase Carey, Peter Chernin and Elisabeth Murdoch as an outside bet.

Former heir apparent James Murdoch, the people’s choice, would be the last, desperate hope, best dropped in only on election eve in a panic by the colleagues who loathe him. Only a new leader could ask voters for more trust. Only a new leader could with any credibility ditch the $US33 million pay packet, admitting Rupert Murdoch had no mandate for it and that News Corp cannot afford it until the rest of the world’s companies start paying their CEOs $US33 million.

Only a new leader could send journalists back to the News of the World again, and admit it was crazy to adopt the James Murdoch solution.

This change of leader would need the permission of the so-called independent directors propping up Rupert Murdoch.

But Sir Rod Eddington and Andrew Knight know they would be buried in an election, and so would back whoever took over.

Viet Dinh is the only danger, but what should scare News Corp more - that Dinh might force them to an election a few months ahead of his plan, or that Murdoch keeps trashing the brand? Murdoch is already flailing dangerously at anything that threatens his weakening grip.

This week, he repeatedly rang the head of the British Labor Party and tried to get him to shut down reporting about his past industrial scale phone hacking.

What might he do next? Yes, replacing him is a gamble for News Corp. But a new leader might at least restore the pride that Murdoch has destroyed.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 04:17 PM

TalkTurkey

Further to my last post, this ricardocephalic who falsely alleged I'd targeted him as a Troll not only confirms that he is one, but makes eyespinningly obvious the truth of the answer to my riddle this morning, the question being:-

What is the difference between a Troll and fireworks that have got damp?

and the answer being,

Well damp fireworks, their wicks are phut . . !  Wink

TalkTurkey

September 7. 2011 04:18 PM

Jason

Aa,
  One of the commentors had this to say!
"Proves how incompetent this government is. Sure, the Australian economy is the best performing first-world economy on this planet.. but what about the other planets?? Only looking at Earth is surely a communist ploy to hide the fact that alien nations have lower interest rates. "

just no pleasing some people!

Jason

September 7. 2011 04:25 PM

Ad astra reply

Jason
After all the vitriol Bolt poured on PM Gillard earlier today, I wonder why he has posted this.  Does he believe that this useless, incompetent, terminal Government had any influence in producing this good news outcome?  More likely he believes it is just happenstance, just good luck.  Wait to see what he writes next.  I’d like to believe this is Bolt’s idea of balance, but somehow I can’t.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 04:26 PM

Ad astra reply

FS
That was a delightful piece of satire by Stephen Mayne.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 04:32 PM

Ad astra reply

Jason
Who was that?  Have you a link?

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 04:39 PM

D Mick Weir

ToM @ 10:50 AM,
I was surprised when I read your comment and as I read thru' I thought at last ToM is engaging in discussion.

You made some valid points and could have opened the door to a reasonable discussion and possibly even some people altering the views even if only marginally.

But ToM,
You Blew It

THe last sentence was inaapropriate and added nothing to the discussion.

I am at a loss as to what to suggest but I will offer a word to the wise:
Waving red rags at bulls may seem like fun but it gets very painfual when the bull gores you with its' horns

D Mick Weir

September 7. 2011 04:59 PM

lyn

Hi Ad


Hi Ad

I heard John Howard once say, former Prime Ministers should stay out of the Media:  well he has been annoying me, anyway I suppose since when does any  Liberal Party person do what they say.

LatelineLateline ABC

by abcnews

Tonight: Former Prime Minister, John Howard ABC1 1030pm

14 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 7. 2011 05:05 PM

Jason

Aa,
  That was one of the post on the Bolt link I put up earlier!

Jason

September 7. 2011 05:12 PM

TalkTurkey

This is part of the biggish lump that self-named troll saw fit to post in another place. I wonder what he made of it.

Be it noted, I have always proffered the promise of respect to such few trolls as we have, if they were to want it, but they have never earnt anything but my contempt, almost uncanny how they can be so universally nasty, but get used to it, they're there, can't change that, but can ignore it.

It's not like with CB Radio, where bloody bucketmouths could drown out rational conversation. These people can't touch us!  

We have Wonkleys to win this very year, and our long game is to help keep this government in power, as well as to influence it in ways we think wise. Ad deserves it, the site deserves it, all you goodwillians deserve it to be held in respect. This needs to be a site that keeps its focus.

I am real serious here. Please, HAVE FUN WITH TROLLS!
. . . or ignore them altogether.  

Oh yeah, and one more thing, if they ever should say anything helpful at all, (if!), stroke and pat and tickle them half to death!    

The funny thing is, next post but one, As you can imagine, it’s kind of difficult to reason with someone like that……

Then next post but one TB of Queensland came to my support (rightly) saying

"… what’s wrong with it? It seems OK to me … I got much worse from the bear … in fact I kept a couple of samples – in case I forgot and got soft … hang on …"

(Wink to Nasking!)

And just down the page on that other place I almost nver go, another wickphutted feller says (with NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER!)
"Yes, I think Talk Turkey was one of the original homophobic slaggers."

Should he quote what I said this morning, let him recall that he said "one of the original slaggers" -  (so he needs to go back for evidence, HE WILL FIND NONE! - and what did I say this morning, and it is the ONLY reference EVER in my memory that I have made on this blog to anything
"homophobic" was:

"They are Murdoch's sycophantic little lickspittles, and Swordsfolks I entreat you straitly, DO NOT PLAY THEIR GAME! Addressing them directly means that you inevitably end up using terms of abuse like Merdeoch's bumboys, terms I would never use myself, buggered if I would. Smile Well actually that's true, I wouldn't use a term like that of anyone in particular though I might well think of them in those terms."

How to turn white into black.  I must say I'm impressed by how much they must fear my dragonfire, that they so pervert my (truly) articulate pronouncements. It makes me know I'm under their skin, that they are so peeved as to come out into the sunlight and expose their Abbortt Syndrome, openly lying and distorting, for all to see.

See, Folks of the Left don't do that. Fascist lickspittles do that.

And I know a true liar by the fact that true liars tell lies.

Both of those blokes from southeastern capitals I now call liars, never mind trolls.

Thank you TB Queensland for calling the former on his BS and sticking up for me and the Truth. BTW I don't think the Bear's too bad neither, not compared to a troll, which he is not.
Your voice alone TB might get me to return sometime to that site, where evidently not everybody is horrid.  

Take the Turkey on on Decency would they. Hunh. G'rnh! Smile

TalkTurkey

September 7. 2011 05:23 PM

D Mick Weir

David Lewis @ 12:35AM,
You have set the cogs whirring and made me think about 'the problem' from another angle.

Thanks.

I am still working on this and will accept that it is wobbly thinking.

The Kevin07 campaign in ways portrayed KR as 'teh messiah' the one that solve all our problems, apply soothing balms to our wounds, heal the nation and lead us to nirvana. A bit OTT but in some ways close to the mark.

The total focus on KR along with some policies that weren't well thought through set up KR and his government for inevitable failure.

The hope that KR inspired is still latent in the hearts and minds of many in the electorate. There are some still hoping for a saviour and some cling to a hope for the second coming of 'teh messiah' that KR was (or at least 'teh messiah' that KR may have believed he was/is)

When KR was replaced, the new PM, Ms Gillard may well have set herself up for failure in suggesting that she could guide a government that 'had lost its' way toward the proverbial light on the hill. The PM pinned her hopes (and ours) on three main priorites, the climate challenge, the MRRT and asylum seekers.

It appears that, for the moment, that fixing the asylum seeker problem has turned into a complete disaster and has blown up in the PM's face.

It may be we all need to rethink our relationship with government. Are our great expectations of what a government can and should do realistic? Do we invest to much faith in one person (the Prime Minister) and burden them with unrealistic expectations?

Just thinking out loud and would appreciate some nudging toward a clearer view of it all.

D Mick Weir

September 7. 2011 05:32 PM

TalkTurkey

Sorry Folks, my last post was a little turgid because I missed out a few quote marks and one thing and another. Migraines'll do that. Here's a bit better version. [You can remove the other one if you like Ad, and sorry.]

It should of went:

This is part of the biggish lump of my earlier post that self-named troll saw fit to post in another place. I wonder what he made of it.

"Be it noted, I have always proffered the promise of respect to such few trolls as we have, if they were to want it, but they have never earnt anything but my contempt, almost uncanny how they can be so universally nasty, but get used to it, they're there, can't change that, but can ignore it.

It's not like with CB Radio, where bloody bucketmouths could drown out rational conversation. These people can't touch us!  

We have Wonkleys to win this very year, and our long game is to help keep this government in power, as well as to influence it in ways we think wise. Ad deserves it, the site deserves it, all you goodwillians deserve it to be held in respect. This needs to be a site that keeps its focus.

I am real serious here. Please, HAVE FUN WITH TROLLS!
. . . or ignore them altogether.  

Oh yeah, and one more thing, if they ever should say anything helpful at all, (if!), stroke and pat and tickle them half to death! "    

The self-made troll then commented:
"As you can imagine, it’s kind of difficult to reason with someone like that…… "

Then next post but one, TB of Queensland (My Hero!) came to my support (rightly) saying

"… what’s wrong with it? It seems OK to me … I got much worse from the bear … in fact I kept a couple of samples – in case I forgot and got soft … hang on …"

(And I TT nodded to Nasking! Smile)

And just down the page on that other place I almost never go, another wickphutted feller says (with NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER!)
"Yes, I think Talk Turkey was one of the original homophobic slaggers."

Should he quote what I said this morning, let him recall that he said "one of the original slaggers" -  (so he needs to go WAY BACK for evidence, HE WILL FIND NONE!) - and what did I say this morning, and it is the ONLY reference EVER in my memory that I have made on this blog to anything "homophobic" was:

"They are Murdoch's sycophantic little lickspittles, and Swordsfolks I entreat you straitly, DO NOT PLAY THEIR GAME! Addressing them directly means that you inevitably end up using terms of abuse like Merdeoch's bumboys, terms I would never use myself, buggered if I would.  Well actually that's true, I wouldn't use a term like that of anyone in particular though I might well think of them in those terms."

How to turn white into black.  I must say I'm impressed by how much they must fear my dragonfire, that they so pervert my (truly) articulate pronouncements. It makes me know I'm under their skin, that they are so peeved as to come out into the sunlight and expose their Abbortt Syndrome, openly lying and distorting, for all to see.
See, Folks of the Left don't do that. Fascist lickspittles do that.

The one thing they cannot stand is when nobody addresses them, when we ignore them, and their spray at me (ha ha, missed, Maggots!) proves the efficacy of what I say. I'm under their skin, they are not under mine. I'm loving it.


And I know a true liar by the fact that true liars truly tell lies.

Both of those blokes from southeastern capitals I now call liars, never mind trolls.

Thank you TB Queensland for calling the former on his BS and sticking up for me and the Truth. BTW I don't think the Bear's too bad neither, not compared to a troll, which he is not.
Your voice alone TB might get me to return sometime to that site, where evidently not everybody is horrid.  

Take the Turkey on on Decency would they. Hunh. G'rnh!  




TalkTurkey

September 7. 2011 05:34 PM

D Mick Weir

Reb (various),
I note some interesting comments from you today.

In the interests of building bridges and hoping for beter discourse thanks for the ghange in the way you have commented today.

The 'New' Reb is most welcome the old one is ok as well when he comments like the new one. Smile  something like that.

D Mick Weir

September 7. 2011 05:44 PM

reb of Hobart

Feral,

I have addressed the Thomson issue as clearly and articulately as I can.

I have outlined my views as to why I think is behaviour is unethical.

All you do in return is paste a link to an article where he says "I didn't do it."

Wow, what a surprise.

Why not try reading what I write, rather than glossing over it and jumping to the conclusion that by simply criticising his conduct I must therefore be "a right wing troll."

In fact, the way you're carrying on about all this "trolling nonsense" simply serves to illustrate your immaturity and abject lack of comprehension skills more than anything else.

It's becoming tiresome to be honest.

reb of Hobart

September 7. 2011 05:54 PM

jane

FS loved the Mayne satire.

The sooner we have a media inquiry the better even if the only outcome would be to see Dolt, covered in impetigo, sitting on a filthy hole riddled blanket, begging bowl in front of his scab encrusted knees begging the PM for a few coins. I would be happy to kick the bowl out of his grubby paws.  

jane

September 7. 2011 06:08 PM

Jason

reb,
   I take your point on "Thomson" however it's not evidence! and under our judicial system the crown has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the charged person done the crime! Also under the same system the accused is not required to incriminate themselves!
Yes it looks sordid and if he/or others used money on hookers,which I thought were legal business now in NSW and Victoria. When did it become a crime to spend money on legal activities? forget the moral argument if brothels are now legal where is the crime?

Jason

September 7. 2011 06:24 PM

reb of Hobart

Honestly Jason, if you can't see the error in using your employer's credit card to pay for prostitutes then I really can't help you.

The fact that you still think this sort of conduct is ok astounds me.

Would you feel the same way if it were Scott Morrison in the same situation?

I think not.

reb of Hobart

September 7. 2011 06:30 PM

Sue

Here is a wonderful example of the someone told me who knows someone who has inside knowledge of the Labor party
As expressed by Greg Hunt because he is terrified the carbon tax will travel quickly into law.

" ... every day I am getting very senior business people come to me saying 'we've been talking to members of the (Labor) partyroom, talking with cabinet ministers and, it's not universal, but there is a move within the ALP parliamentary partyroom and within the cabinet to ditch the tax'.
news.smh.com.au/.../...dissent-20110907-1jxit.html


Greg wake up, senior business people talking with cabinet ministers, wakey, wakey Greg, you're dreaming

Sue

September 7. 2011 06:47 PM

Jason

reb,
   I couldn't care less if it was Morrison or anyone else! Apart from the fact I used to drive girls around for a living when I lived in Sydney and collect money,or cards from their clients, who was allowed to spend what was hardly a concern of mine or the girls involved so long as the credit company approved the transaction.
I don't know if the union had any sort of policy on the use of such cards at the time, do you? but if they didn't let it be a lesson to them! Act in a more professional manner1

Jason

September 7. 2011 06:50 PM

TB Queensland

Talk Turkey

You really don't understand sarcasm ... and you really don't want me posting here ... just ask Nasking or a reference ...

PS I have no desire to post here - all is safe Ad Astra ...

... however reading some of the comedic posts here really brightens up my day ... many thanks**

**sacasm alert ...  

PS the words on your spider (trolls?) catcher really aren't ...

TB Queensland

September 7. 2011 07:28 PM

Feral Skeleton

   The best Current Account figures since 1988-89, and the Liberal Framers are out of the blocks, like the blithe political spirits that they are, rabbiting on about 'Debt and Deficit' and how they don't think that the Labor Party has any excuse now not to deliver a Surplus. "Wayne Swan has already delivered 4 Deficit Budgets, I just don't believe that he will ever deliver a Surplus." said the biggest mouth...piece of the Liberal Class of 2010, Kelly O'Dwyer on Capital Hill tonight. Completely erasing from history the GFC. They have hides thicker than Jessie, huh?

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 07:42 PM

Sue

FS
Kelly must have missed the budget reading in NSW,a deficit budget, a Liberal government.

Sue

September 7. 2011 08:04 PM

Feral Skeleton

reb,
    Condescenscion doesn't become you. You obviously didn't take the time to read the whole article which I have linked to twice now about Craig Thomson, instead letting your inbuilt prejudices blind you to the FACTS contained therein.  FACTS such as Craig Thomson having documentary proof that he was in another State when the suspect transactions occurred. However, as it appears to be easier to be a bitch towards the Messenger, I don't think I'll bother replying to you in future. You are obviously only here on a frolic to spread as much bad blood towards the people who comment here, as is possible. Your half-arsed attempts at debate over the past couple of days are obvioulsly just the thinnest patina over your true intentions.
   Now, take that back to the pit of vipers that is your blog and bitch about it to your heart's content. I could care less. And don't think a return serve of condescending sneering from you will have any effect on me either. You are beyond reason and beyond hope. That is an obvious fact.

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 08:09 PM

D Mick Weir

Further to the CAD and how we are fairing as a nation have a look at this post @ Troppo

Post-modernism and the media  Ken Parish
clubtroppo.com.au/.../

Two different takes on a report that come to completely different conclusions. How is that possible? Go read and all will be explained.

D Mick Weir

September 7. 2011 08:17 PM

D Mick Weir

The comment @ 8:04 PM
puts unneeded petrol on a fire that is not at all warming

I am going to do aBolt and go off and consider my options and question my principles.

D Mick Weir

September 7. 2011 08:25 PM

Feral Skeleton

Sue,
    The Liberals in NSW are employing the threadbare tactic of blaming Labor for THEIR Deficit. No doubt they'll keep it up for so long as the gullible electorate continues to swallow their soft soap. I observed that they dropped the silly notion of the $5 Billion Budget Black Hole left behind by Labor, supposedly. Even the easily-fooled weren't fooled by that one this time.
   I note that the Labor Opposition were able to quickly pick up where the Costs were cut by the Liberals. Public Education spending has copped it in the neck already to the tune of a 50% cut. I could pretty well guarantee that the money they pay to the Private School sector was not cut as much. The cost of Electricity and Water was put up, even before the Price on Carbon Pollution legislation has even come before federal parliament. And the cut to the First Home Buyers' Stamp Duty Concession was spun as policy designed to encourage the building of more new homes. Except, people need a place to buy now, there are cheap homes available for purchase right now by first home buyers, and they just got 20% more expensive overnight, thanks to the Liberals. Not to mention the effect this will have in country towns where it is a lot harder to come by a developer keen to sink money into a new Greenfields development for first home buyers in the town. Most, as populations in towns are contracting or staying approximately the same, just buy established stock for their first home. Well, they'll just have to go on renting for a few years more, and do without the concession, when they can finally afford to purchase a house.
   Also, if I was a smart member of the Labor Party, I'd be keeping tabs on the Liberals' Developer mates, because Developer mates aren't exclusive to the Labor Party, and see just who is benefiting financially from Barrie's Building Boom.

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 08:30 PM

TalkTurkey

TB of Queensland said (of TT's non-specific condemnation of hateful posters)

"… what’s wrong with it? It seems OK to me … "

That is sarcasm? Perhaps you don't understand sarcasm . . . You need to provide a clue that you are being disingenuous, otherwise your venom goes to waste!

Are you trying to tell me you're as unpleasant as those other two of capital city fame? I'll believe it if you want me to. Seems you would rather be reviled than befriended, if that's so I won't adress you again. All I said about being lied about is exactly true, if you want to say anything how about a reply to that whether sincere or disingenuous on behalf of those two who have both lied about TT today (and I care not a whit, au contraire I'm chortling at having so got under their skins)  but I do see now, you have given me the key to understanding that when one of them called me what was it, wtte incomprehensible or inarticulate?, he was just being 'sarcastic', really he means he is quite rightly in awe of my command of English (he himself fails to differentiate between of and off ffs! Smile)

Pity if you were being insincere. I wasn't. See I'm a genuine Goodwillian and what you make of that is up to you.  

I take their targeting of me as a compliment, I shall work strenuously to be worthy of their attention. And yours TB of Queensland if that be your stupid choice. The Haters' side of politics always and everywhere targets most vehemently the most tellingly outspoken, from Socrates and Jesus, through Mandela and Don Dunstan, (I saw it happening in person), Gough, Keating, now *J*U*L*I*A*, hey I'm honoured that in a tiny way I too am seen as worthy of the Haters' invective and lies. For there is a lot that is microcosmic about this head-on between lovesomeness and hatefulness, co-operativeness and cynicism, courage and cowardice. I have never gone to that trolly site but a couple of times, not interested now ever again if yours was indeed a snide poke at me. I've never commented there, how's that for being what was it, the original homophobic something or other? Everything I say I say here on TPS. I have not, I repeat, named either of those beings for many months, their claim that I have pursued or persecuted them is utter bs and everyone knows it. I won't again, and since you were the only voice I thought was on behalf of me, and that was wrong it seems, well I won't need ever to go back again eh! Why would I! I got all Lyn's Links to choose from! Kiss

Some say that the stated credo of the The Political Sword is hypocritical. Funny how those who say that seem to cluster like blowflies around pigpoo, in a sort of a cyber-sty whose name at least is now under no dispute for its verisimilitude.

Inarticulate huh.

Two full years to do the Rotten Right s l o w l y . . .  and no way of undoing the Left's great works.    
Chortle . . . .
  

TalkTurkey

September 7. 2011 08:31 PM

Feral Skeleton

jane,
     I reckon you'll find Andrew Bolt worshipping at the feet of Geert Wilders, the Dutch White Supremacist, when he comes to Australia in the near future.
   Wouldn't it just be a delcious irony if the federal government deported Mr Bolt back to Holland because he failed to pass the Character Test? I reckon they'd have lots of evidence to back up such an assessment. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 08:49 PM

Feral Skeleton

  You want Homophobia? This is from the Liberal Students' Campaign Manual which I linked to earlier, Ch9,
    'Arguing with the Lefties-Refuting Their Tired Arguments!'
Some questions to ask with their responses.
...6. Why does the Union have a Women's Room and a Queer Room?
Ladies-give examples of the strange(sic) and clickiness(sic) of the women that occupy the Women's Room. Outline that the room is full of a group of friends and it is extremely intimating(sic) going into a room full of lesbians that want to check girls out. Say that they don't represent my views and you are disgusted that thousands of dollars are spent on this shit.'


   You couldn't make this stuff up. Firstly, you would wrongly expect that Liberal University Students could spell, and secondly, you wouuldn't think you could put such obvious villification into an election manifesto. But there you go, they really did.

   I'm amazed not to have found an instruction to the girls to emulate Sarah Palin as much as possible because she is the World's #1 Conservative Expert at getting men to cast a Viagra vote.

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 08:55 PM

NormanK

For goodness sake, give it a rest will you?
Can somebody explain to me how this is good for anybody's mental well-being?  Undecided
It certainly doesn't advance any form of intelligent discourse.

NormanK

September 7. 2011 09:07 PM

D Mick Weir

Good Evening NormanK,
thanks.

I can give no explanation.

I am thinking deeply on civility, tolerance and the good old fashioned fair go at the moment and and tending towards opting out of it all.

In case I don't come back it has been an absolute to have discourse with you and I know that I will miss it immensley but I have my principles to consider.

NormanK I would install you as a national treasure if it were in my remit.

D Mick Weir

September 7. 2011 09:09 PM

D Mick Weir

NK
'... it has been an absolute pleasure to have discourse with you ...'

D Mick Weir

September 7. 2011 09:19 PM

el gordo


'The Haters' side of politics always and everywhere targets most vehemently the most tellingly outspoken, from Socrates and Jesus, through Mandela and Don Dunstan...'

Don Dunstan?

As much as I admired his apparel, he's not exactly in the same class as the others.


el gordo

September 7. 2011 09:24 PM

nasking

I wonder if Tony Abbott read my comment at September 7. 2011 02:02 PM, which included:

You're all mad I tell ya...all mad...there is no xenophobe stirring, race-baiting, dog whistling conspiracy here to get votes One Nation style...our beloved Australian Coalition & its supporters would never opportunistically risk torching our country to win elections:


Alan Jones: I'm the person that's led this charge
By David Marr, Sydney
December 13, 2005

BY THURSDAY last week Alan Jones was screaming like a race caller whose horse was coming home. "I'm the person that's led this charge here. Nobody wanted to know about North Cronulla, now it's gathered to this."


It's seems, per usual, the Abbott is tryin' to turn things on their head:

Tony Abbott warned processing refugees on mainland will cause social unrest

BRINGING asylum seekers onto the Australian mainland could lead to the social unrest which has caused violence and disruption across Paris and London, Tony Abbott was warned.


www.news.com.au/.../story-e6frfkvr-1226131503463

But of course, the plan all along was to bring Geert Wilders here to stir things up...his banning, if it happened, would even feed into a debate...add the odd usual suspect media focus on him...and the London, Paris riots...the typical Bolt comments on "problems w/ immigrants" etc. etc.

It's how it's done. Wedge the Left on asylum seekers. Build up the xenophobia over time. One Nation...Tea Party style. Abbott learnt years ago from his mate Oldfield...might even have sparked a few ideas.

Yer mates/allies overseas, say in the UK, put pressure on certain poor communities (they have it down pat thnx to Maggie & Murdoch & Brixton)...pit them against one another by way of sports, community leaders, political leaders...put out a number of films & TV shows, perhaps computer games, directed at youth that show rioting...including 20th century FOX Apes in ads ad nauseum rioting against the authoritarian leaders...manipulate manipulate...

then use the police to flame things up...w/ the help of saboteurs and real crims...and the gullible...and social network sites etc...

get reporters & video crews in there to film it...use footage provided by police & selected judges to fingerpoint...and social commentors...

interesting Abbott went to the Tory convention...before Afghanistan...a certain Howard era think tank/advisors were in the UK helpin' Tory pollies...

Amanda Vanstone's been in Italy (think Berlusconi & his sneaky approach to creatin' xenophobia & gettin' votes off the back of it...now Vanstone appears again).

A nicely put together campaign...courtesy of right-wing & faux left-wing crusaders (the Blairish, dark prince type...you know them)...

And now Tony Abbott, the mad monk, can use those riots opportunistically to try and grab the reigns of power...of the nation that provides so many commodities useful for war. And will hopefully be used, including special forces (kill & capture) for more of their crusading wars.

As  Bolt & the Murdochites w/ the help of other crusadin' corporate types in Fairfax etc. try to bring our PM Gillard down...

no coincidences here...this has been a well-orchestrated campaign to undermine democracy, manipulate public perception...to preserve & gain power by the Neo-CONS...and the Murdochracy...

Tony Abbott...and Rupert Murdoch...you can see them comin' for miles & miles & miles...

How do YOU feel about bein' manipulated? Are YOU that gullible?

How well do YOU think the Neo-CONS have done?

Ain't it a lovely forever war?

Recommend ya watch 4 Corners:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/

N'...who expected the GT onslaught. Predictable.

nasking

September 7. 2011 09:58 PM

NormanK

nasking

I suspect you may have got the wrong end of the stick.
Tony Abbott was warned by representatives from the Department of Immigration that on-shore processing might lead to social unrest similar to that in Europe.
Abbott didn't raise that spectre, the Immigration Department did.
As usual, whether the quotes are in full or presented in their proper context and perspective is questionable given that they are published in the Australian press. Having said that, Malcolm Farr is usually pretty reliable on facts (if not spin).

NormanK

September 7. 2011 10:25 PM

NormanK

D Mick Weir
Don't give up on us. I seriously doubt that you will find a blog anywhere that completely suits your tastes and if you did it would probably be as nourishing as Maccas. Yes the rhetoric here can get overblown at times and that leaves you with three options.
Ignore it (which actually costs very little provided the offending comment is not hurtful and personal) and chalk it up to the price you pay for having access to a wide variety of personalities and the readers and authors that they in turn attract.
Pull the pin to appease your conscience and punish mostly yourself.
Object when you think it has crossed a line but beware of setting the bar too high.

I guess all that you can do is find a blog that provides an atmosphere that you enjoy and then do your best to help foster and maintain that atmosphere.

Perhaps you would enjoy the ambiance over at the Cafe - if you haven't already spent a relaxing hour there, I recommend that you do so. The hosts are genial but don't tolerate the throwing around of furniture and the majority of the customers are civil and not prone to furniture-throwing.

In case you are not aware there is a lot of inter-connectedness between blogs both past and present that goes back many years. As is so often the case, old friends can bag each other in what seem like hateful terms and still remain friends. Conversely, old animosities run deep and will probably never be reconciled.

NormanK

September 7. 2011 10:38 PM

Feral Skeleton

NormanK,
        I take what you say on board. However, I have yet to come up with the formula that will see me be abused and have my character besmirched, and so I respond defensively, yet will also give me the ability to turn the other cheek and not respond. All suggestions about how to do this would be gratefully accepted.

Feral Skeleton

September 7. 2011 11:02 PM

jane

I could pretty well guarantee that the money they pay to the Private School sector was not cut as much.

Or at all, FS.

And it would be too, too delicious if Dolt was slung in a dyke. Can we start manufacturing a giant rubber band?

jane

September 7. 2011 11:05 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
It's time for us to give it a rest for today.

Let's sleep and resume in the morning.

Ad astra reply

September 7. 2011 11:42 PM

Marilyn

What I don't understand is why Gillard is happy to die in the ditch breaking the law and torturing a few hundred refugees in the process.

and why that ghastly fat slug Andrew Metcalfe is allowed loose to peddle nonsense about a massive flood of 20 refugees a day bringing violence and unrest unless we can send them to Malaysia to be suitably tortured.

Marilyn

September 7. 2011 11:46 PM

NormanK

Feral Skeleton
Now you've put me on the spot. Perhaps if I try to explain what I don't understand.

I don't understand how it is that in this almost entirely anonymous world people can become so worked up over having their character besmirched. I don't mean that no reaction is required but as we've seen recently a whole slagging match can take place premised on defence of reputation when in fact the protagonists are never going to encounter each other in person. Readers here will have already made their mind up about you (sorry to personalise it - it's just easier than dancing around a hypothetical character) and will judge any assaults on you accordingly.

I don't know that there is any on-line persona known as NormanK who can have his character besmirched. In fact I would consider it highly egotistical of me if I did believe that but perhaps that's just me. He is a theoretical character in a theoretical world. For all anyone knows NormanK may be a clever (or not) fabrication that I have invented to satisfy some perverse urges that I want to cultivate. Many on-line personalities strike me as being just that, especially borderline trolls.

If I am comfortable in my own skin then assaults on my on-line persona only have meaning if they come from someone I like or respect. If it comes from someone that I couldn't give a toss about then I couldn't give a toss about their attempts to defame me. And the question is: defame me in whose eyes? It's not as though TPS is a real community in which I have to live, go to the shops, apply for bank loans or woo a mate. Nor is it a work environment where one's reputation might do the rounds of the industry and influence future employment prospects or working relationships. It's not a social club where others won't want to dance with me because word is that I've got two left feet.

NormanK is just a creation on a computer monitor and if I rise up to vociferously defend him then it is because of a sense of pride in my creation. I should stress the word 'vociferously' because I'm not saying that no response is the best course of action. But if the response is as strong or stronger than the initial infringement then the whole thing can only escalate. If the response is firm but controlled surely it need only be given once and any further attempts at provocation can be ignored.

I imagine the gremlins will have more to say tomorrow.

NormanK

September 8. 2011 01:03 AM

TalkTurkey

el gordo quoted TalkTurkey
"The Haters' side of politics always and everywhere targets most vehemently the most tellingly outspoken, from Socrates and Jesus, through Mandela and Don Dunstan...'

Don Dunstan?

As much as I admired his apparel, he's not exactly in the same class as the others."

That's right eg, he wasn't in exactly the same class as the others, he was in a class of his own. You by contrast, going on your comment, seem to have put yourself in exactly the same class as those who criticise the length of *J*U*L*I*A*'s earlobes. Don Dunstan was a miracle man, had you known him just a little you would never have said anything so shallow and so dumb. This was the man amongst all men whom I am proudest to have had just a little of his friendship. Your response shows you knew him not at all.


TalkTurkey

September 8. 2011 01:06 AM

nasking

Fortunately the school holidays are comin' up. What a nice break it will be for parents & guardians to be focused on entertaining their children...rather than spending so much time listenin' to the political nonsense gossip around the cooler/workplace and on the news...particularly from Limited News.

But of course the newspapers always have attention-seeking headlines combined w/ lots of info on where to take yer kids, what to do on the hols...hopefully next weekend or on the hols they will find pleasant things to read and discuss...not dreadful things like huge terrorist acts...and Persian links...particularly as the ten year anniversary of 9/11 is already soberin' enuff.

I can remember the last hols my wife demandin' I turn off the news...so we took in a few films. Not many superb ones around these days...but I was reminded this morn of a top one...based on a novel:

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (original title in Swedish: Män som hatar kvinnor – "Men Who Hate Women") is an award-winning crime novel and locked room mystery by Swedish author and journalist Stieg Larsson, the first in his "Millennium series".

At his death in November 2004, Larsson left three unpublished novels that made up the trilogy. It became a posthumous best-seller in several European countries as well as in the United States.[1] Larsson witnessed the gang rape of a young girl when he was 15. He never forgave himself for failing to help the girl, whose name was Lisbeth – like the young heroine of his books, herself a rape victim, which inspired the theme of sexual violence against women in his books.

themes

Larsson makes several literary references to the genre's classic forerunners, and comments on contemporary Swedish society.

Reviewer Dessaix writes that "His favourite targets are violence against women, the incompetence and cowardice of investigative journalists, the moral bankruptcy of big capital and the virulent strain of Nazism still festering away ..." in Swedish society.
(wikipedia)



I highly recommend the Swedish film...I luv murder mysteries...and this one is a goodie. And thought provokin'. Apparently the book is good too.

I wonder if it was widely read in Norway? I doubt a certain maniac there woulda dug it. Too busy readin' about Dutch blokes I reckon.

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 01:29 AM

Patricia WA

Didn't anyone watch At Home With Julia?  I did and had some good laughs.  It has real potential for great satire.

Patricia WA

September 8. 2011 01:31 AM

nasking

Tony Abbott was warned by representatives from the Department of Immigration that on-shore processing might lead to social unrest similar to that in Europe.
Abbott didn't raise that spectre, the Immigration Department did.


Norman,
and did he keep it to himself. Smile We'll be told...spun.

Murdoch empire's cheery news dude got the news of the warning from who then?

Fancy somethin' like that get out via the usual corporate news avenues. Who woulda thunk it?

Let the boat people fearstorms roll...bounce from corporate news to corporate news...boing boing boing...like the Thomson affair...

good nite...sweet dreams...

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 01:36 AM

nasking

Didn't anyone watch At Home With Julia?  I did and had some good laughs.  It has real potential for great satire.

Patricia,
It grew on me...I had a few larfs. The actin' was good. I'm sure the PM will have a few chuckles.

I like what I've seen of her in NZ. Strong lady.

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 01:39 AM

nasking

Speakin' of Malcolm Farr...remember this?:

PM fiddles while world burns
By Malcolm Farr, Chief Political Reporter From: The Daily Telegraph November 01, 2006

JOHN Howard yesterday committed himself to coal and nuclear power &#150; but refused to budge from his opposition to the Kyoto protocol despite new warnings on the economic cost of the greenhouse effect.
But the Opposition, green groups and scientists rounded on his position, saying Australia was becoming a world pariah by ignoring the evidence on climate change.

The Prime Minister made clear the Government would continue a policy of backing coal-fired power stations and after that a switch to nuclear energy.

"You will never be able to replace power stations dirty or clean with solar, wind or wave power. Never. It's just not possible," Mr Howard yesterday told Parliament.


www.dailytelegraph.com.au/.../story-e6freuzi-1111112447535

Ahhh, the good old days...when honest John always kept to his word.

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 01:49 AM

nasking

So true:

Why phone hacking is a story that deserves big coverage

Roy Greenslade
Wednesday 7 September 2011 guardian.co.uk

There have been suggestions, inside and outside the newspaper world, that it's time to wind down on phone hacking. Some think there are more important stories to worry about. Some complain about vindictiveness. Others argue that it's all too complex to understand.

I just can't share any of those negative thoughts, as I argue in my London Evening Standard column today.

Importance? Well, there are important stories - such as Libya, the eurozone crisis, the wider economic dramas - and The Guardian is hardly ignoring them.

But what British-based story of recent times has led to the resignation of two senior officers from the nation's largest police force, the closure of the country's second-highest selling national newspaper, the resignation of two senior executives from the world's largest news organisation, the resignation of the prime minister's media aide, the early retirement of the chairwoman of the press regulator, a judicial inquiry, two police investigations, two overlapping Commons inquiries, and the arrest of 16 people?

Vindictiveness? Rupert Murdoch's News International newspapers - most especially, the late and unlamented News of the World and The Sun - have routinely acted in a vindictive manner to many thousands of people down the years.

Is anyone seriously suggesting that we should go easy on journalists and executives who have profited by unjustifiable and casual vindictiveness?

Complexity? Well, it may often seem hard to follow but, as always in such stories, the devil really is in the detail.

Look back at the great investigative stories of the past - thalidomide, say, or Watergate - and note how the truth had to be extracted bit by painful bit.

In cases where powerful corporations seek to prevent revelation (thalidomide) and powerful institutions seek to cover up misbehaviour (Watergate), it takes time to wheedle out the truth (or, at least, an approximation of the truth).

I would argue that in the News of the World phone hacking case, a powerful corporation is seeking to prevent revelation and it has been guilty of a cover up.

I think the former is obvious. As for the latter, yesterday's Commons media select committee session provided some crucial evidence.


More here:

www.guardian.co.uk/.../phone-hacking-newsoftheworld

Neither rain, nor snow, nor sleet, nor hail shall keep...

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 02:10 AM

nasking

Don't panic...DON'T PANIC!!!:

In Euro Zone, Banking Fear Feeds on Itself
By LANDON THOMAS Jr. and NELSON D. SCHWARTZ
Published: September 6, 2011
NY Times

www.nytimes.com/.../...g-fear-feeds-on-itself.html

Fear...the spineless frontier...these are the voyages...

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 02:18 AM

nasking

What say old brandy balls?

No grounds for charging Thomson, say police Dylan Welch
September 8, 2011

THE fraud case against the Labor MP Craig Thomson is effectively dead after advice from the NSW fraud squad that there is insufficient evidence to prove allegations he spent more than $100,000 on prostitutes, election campaigning and personal expenses.

The advice, sent to senior police yesterday, calls for the matter to be referred to Victoria Police - as any offence would have been committed there - but says they are unlikely to reach a different conclusion.


www.smh.com.au/.../...y-police-20110907-1jxwh.html

Whooops! Hang on....Victorian police?

Ain't they the ones who the Murdoch empire & others had so much fun dancin' with?

Who woulda thunk it?

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 02:30 AM

TalkTurkey

Thomson exonerated,
www.adelaidenow.com.au/.../story-e6frea6u-1226131740678

Fisher NOT?
mailto:?subject=Police stand by store detective (AdelaideNow Article)&body=AdelaideNow%0A%0APolice stand by store detective%0A%0AFrom: AdelaideNow%0AWed Sep 07 11:20:10 EST 2011%0APOLICE have defended the actions of a security officer who tried to detain and question Liberal senator Mary Jo Fisher after she allegedly shoplifted fruit and vegetables.%0AAlternatively, you can copy and paste this link into your browser: %0Awww.adelaidenow.com.au/.../story-e6frea83-1226131253752

Trial resumes today!

TalkTurkey

September 8. 2011 02:32 AM

nasking

Not again!:

Afghanistan rejects UN allegations of torture in jails

The allegations, which appear in an as-yet unpublished UN report, suggest that in some prisons detainees have been beaten and given electric shocks.

They prompted Nato to suspend prisoner transfers to some facilities.


www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14825173

They would wouldn't they?

We heard plenty of denials elsewhere too...the Arab spring showed some of them to be BS.

Is the leader of Afghanistan still that fella the Neo-CONS picked?

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 07:40 AM

lyn



TODAY’S LINKS



Spending survey shows we are better off than we think, Peter Martin , Brisbane Times
Tony Abbott said he was worried about the price of groceries, particularly bread. Bread accounts for less of our spending
than it did, sliding from 0.67 per cent to 0.57 per cent; food has slipped from 17.1 to 16.5 per cent.
www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0110906-1jw1z.html

GAME OVER: Craig Thomson cleared by NSW Police, Vex News
It was a great story, it had everything: sex, crime, power, huge stakes (if Thomson fell so would the government went the theory,
ignoring the fact that Slipper and Katter and Crook don’t go to Abbott if he’s forming a government). But the story lacked credibility
www.vexnews.com/.../

Stupid question of the day,Jeremy Sear, Anonymous lefty
“Anyone’s guess”? How moronic would someone have to be – from either side of politics – not to understand “what inspired
the government to soften” the cruel (and, it turns out, quite unlawful) Howard government “Pacific Solution”?
http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/

Too late for the NSW disease, The Piping Shrike
As polls confirm Gillard as the most unpopular Prime Minister in the history of the planet, the mind inevitably asks, who’s next?
Or at least the media’s mind does. As far as their narrative goes, when the leader becomes unpopular, the leader gets changed
www.pipingshrike.com/.../...r-the-nsw-disease.html

Why is the PM so unpopular? Richard farmer, The Stump
Then as a government I would be taking the advice that Malcolm Fraser one promised and getting politics off the front pages
as much as possible.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

Gillard yarn claims scalp, Darin Sullivan, The Left Hack
Smith, a host on 2UE, a radio station owned by Fairfax Media, was the subject of a critical review on ABC Television’s
Media Watch program on Monday night.
darinsullivan.wordpress.com/.../

Abbott denies senator involved in Wilders visit, ABC
Mr Abbott must sanction Senator Bernardi."He said previously that if
Senator Bernardi continued to express intolerant and extreme views that he would sanction Senator Bernardi and sack him
from his front-bench position,"
www.abc.net.au/.../2875402

Cory Bernardi opens his Diary, The Spectator Australia
am introduced to my luncheon companion: Geert Wilders, leader of the Dutch Freedom Party, which has gained 24 seats of the 150-member
Dutch House of Representatives. His party was founded only five years ago, but its success is easily explained: Wilders addresses legitimate issues that
www.spectator.co.uk/.../diary.thtml

The logic of Labor (and Liberal) leadership, Kim, Larvatus Prodeo
he says he wants to do (repeal the carbon price, undo the resources tax, shift towards individual bargaining in workplace relations, dissolvethe NBN and so on) would not, in all likelihood, be capable of being carried through a Senate where the probability that The Greens will
retain the balance of power is high.
larvatusprodeo.net/.../

Labor govt to introduce carbon tax legislation next week, David Twomey, Eco News
“Making sure this happens will require responsible and disciplined parliamentary debate, not the kind of grandstanding and
filibustering we’ve seen too often from Tony Abbott’s opposition lately,” Senator Milne said in a statement.
econews.com.au/.../

Green groups fight everything but criticism against them, Rooted
Leigh Ewbank writes: Throughout 2011, Australia’s best-funded environment organisations have been united in support of the Labor
government’s push to establish a carbon price. Not everyone, it seems, thinks this is a good thing.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

Unrest warning as Abbott urged to dump Nauru, Jeremy Thompson, ABC
The officials are likely to tell Mr Abbott that while towing boats back to Indonesia was a deterrent under the Howard
government, the action could not work now because the boats would be quickly sabotaged and Indonesia
www.abc.net.au/.../2875040

Asylum Seekers Beware: You’re Australia’s Political ‘Hot Potato’,Moth, New Anthropocene
There remains no reason why we couldn’t process claims more efficiently onshore and at the same time implement a
work-for-the-dole-like scheme for all fit adult asylum seekers. In this way, they are quickly returned to a life of some
newanthropocene.wordpress.com/.../

Did James Murdoch mislead hearing- Jeremy sear, Pure Poison
Expect another round of THE MURDOCH FAMILY THAT RUNS OUR PARENT COMPANY IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OVER /THERE from our local News Ltd apologists.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison

Abbott has endorsed NBN: Conroy, Channel 9
Mr Abbott was quoted in the North West Star on September 5 in saying the NBN would "significantly" lift broadband and mobile phone coverage in the area."It's the sort of thing we could get cracking on straight away," Mr Abbott said in the North West Star.
news.ninemsn.com.au/.../abbott-has-endorsed-nbn-conroy

The many NBN views of Malcolm Turnbull, Renai LeMay, Delimeter
views are chronicled in an epic Delimiter forum thread created here by the redoubtable Hubert Cumberdale. One good example
is above. Put simply … you can’t have your cake and eat it too, Mr Turnbull ;)
delimiter.com.au/.../

The NBN Co Optus 'gag' in perspective, Stuart Corner, It Wire
So it's reasonable to assume that the same conclusion would apply to Optus, contrary to News Limited's assertion that this 'gag' order
on Optus "raises new warnings the $36 billion project will stifle competition," which it also claims "is also likely to affect the 504,000
www.itwire.com/.../49616-the-nbn-co-optus-gag-in-perspective

Can I stay with my current internet service provider (ISP) if I connect to the NBN, Australian Government
Yes, if your internet service provider (also known as a retail service provider) offers services on the NBN. The NBN is Australia’s first national wholesale-only network so it will be up to retail service providers competing on the new network to set the services and prices they will offer.
http://www.nbn.gov.au/my-if-i-connectand-network/

NBN in review: positives, dramas and negatives, ABC
Gillard & Co. once again mentioned the performance in the inner-Melbourne suburb of Brunswick. But some sceptics were more interested in questioning the government's claims about NBN-connected schools and looking into the success of new NBN customers such as Vodafone,
www.abc.net.au/.../3311098.htm

Warning bells on Turnbull e-pigeon hole,Weekly Times Now
the expectation that all Australians will access their own designated personal online mailbox assumes that everyone wants to do so and has access to a computer and the internet.Equally, a digital portal may well contribute to the demise of rural post offices. Fewer letters will mean services are redundant.
www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/.../...opinion-news.html

lyn

September 8. 2011 07:56 AM

Feral Skeleton

   Scott Morrison's bluff and bluster was sounding a bit hollow this morning. Who are the Hollow Men of politics now?

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 08:03 AM

Sir Ian Crisp

Marilyn, you didn't mention the Bhaktiari Acting Troupe from Afghanistan/Pakistan. You've also been told that the Australian Constitution predates the refugee convention by 46 years.

Sir Ian Crisp

September 8. 2011 08:10 AM

Ad astra reply

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 08:15 AM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        It seems as though the Afghani Intelligence Service and the Interior Police have learnt well the lessons of Abu Ghraib. Especially the one that goes, 'Deny, deny, deny, and who can prove anything if we control the show?' Fools and knaves.

   Fun fact: Remember who it was who broke ranks from amongst the Commanding Officers of the Coalition of the Willing in Iraq to verify the facts of Abu Ghraib? Mike Kelly. Laughing The whole stinking mess disgusted him so much he resigned from the Army, joined the Labor Party and ran for the seat of Eden Monaro, wherein he defeated Gary Nairn, and the rest is our pleasant history.
   Might I also add that, by way of contrast, the only ex-Servicemen that are on the Liberal side are those wishing to perpetuate the Armed Forces status quo and reinforce it, like the man preparing a way for himself to come back into politics in your State of Queensland, even after he was caught fraudulently diverting funds from his portfolio to his electorate for a local festival-Mal Brough.

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 08:20 AM

Feral Skeleton

  Speaking of Hollow Coalition Men, wonder how George Brandis felt this morning when he opened his newspaper over his Kippers and Toast? Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 08:32 AM

nasking

Feral,
as I mentioned above from the article linked, the Thomson stuff could be headin' Victorian police's way.

Memories:

Friday, 7 May 2010
Delayed: Hulls intervenes in Oz terror leak caseby Margaret Simons, Crikey

The Victorian Government has intervened on the side of the Office of Police Integrity in its high-stakes battle to be allowed to publish a report critical of The Australian newspaper and reporter Cameron Stewart.

The battle over the report, which The Australian wants to suppress, was scheduled to begin in the Federal Court this morning, but the hearing has been adjourned to next Thursday because of issues to do with the intervention of the Victorian Attorney General Rob Hulls.

Hulls has joined the OPI in arguing that the Federal Court does not have the power to stand between the state parliament and its officer, Director of the Office of Police Integrity Michael Strong.

The intervention is significant in terms of the precedent the case will now set, but also because it shows the Brumby Government is not abandoning its embattled anti-corruption agency despite the sustained attack by elements of the police force and The Australian.

This follows yesterday’s claim by Strong that The Australian was using its news pages to campaign against the OPI in the lead-up to the court battle. The Australian has published a series of stories, the latest just today, that have been sourced from former Assistant Commissioner Noel Ashby’s legal team, alleging the OPI has behaved wrongly and even corruptly.


www.crikey.com.au/.../

Remember what Nixon said at her book launch. And the attacks on Simon Overland.

And who now runs Victoria. And their police department.

Sometimes I feel like I'm livin' in London.

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 08:53 AM

Feral Skeleton

NormanK,
        Your aetherial blood is worth bottling. Kiss

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 08:53 AM

nasking

Verry interesting:

Man fatally stabbed in Victorian car park
From: AAP September 07, 2011 Herald Sun

When asked whether Sudanese gangs were a problem in the area, Victoria Police Acting Chief Commissioner Ken Lay said: "There is no doubt that there are groups of people that do cause (the) community some concern.


www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-e6frf7jx-1226131668364

memories:

Howard denies racism as Australia closes door on Africans Ellen Whinnett, Ben Packham and Peter Jean From: Herald Sun October 03, 2007

PREMIER John Brumby has waded into the immigration debate, backing the continuing migration of Sudanese refugees to Victoria.
Mr Brumby stayed well out of the politics of the Federal Government's decision, declining to comment on whether it was racist, and saying he understood the immigration quota for African refugees for the year had been reached.

"The bigger issue is what happens next year and beyond," he said.

Bill Heffernan: Asian invasion warning More coverage: Federal election 2007


www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-e6frf7l6-1111114555443

Good old Herald Sun. Lookin' out for us.

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 09:01 AM

nasking

Memories:

Racist academic attacks Sudanese migrants
Wednesday, July 13, 2005


http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/32142

Geez...hasn't former PM & sage John Winston Howard been out & about this past week or so?

And we're comin' up to the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. His timing is amazing:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/

Ever get the feelin' society is bein' manipulated?

Manufacturin' the news...and society...brought to you by...

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 09:05 AM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        I understand the point you are trying to make, and, if the Brief had gone to the Victorian Police Force first then I may have had cause for concern along the lines you have outlined.
   However, since the evidence first went to NSW, and was found to be wanting, even though as much 'positive' pressure had been applied as was humanly possible from the media and the Coalition(and don't forget, this State is the home of Tony Abbott and many other heavy hitters in the federal Coalition, our State Coalition government loves nothing more than to play hard-ball politics, and our Police Minister is an ex-Policeman), and still they couldn't get even a Police Investigation up, well, the reasonable man or woman in the street would have to conclude that Victoria may also end up saying, "Nothing to see here, move along."

   Have a read of the Vex News article lyn has linked to. It's not your usual vindictive Vex stuff. It lays everything out in this sorry saga as well as anyone has.

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 09:13 AM

nasking

Crikey! Is this The Australian tryin' to stir up Sudanese Australians?

Sudan refugees stand to lose their place
Leo Shanahan From: The Australian September 02, 2011

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn9hm1gu-1226127659979

Surely not...the OZ are just concerned for them.

Wouldn't an Abbott, Murdoch empire-run Australia be just wonderful. Those early days would be so peaceful.

But I guess if you have Coalition in the states & shock jocks like Oldfield & Jones etc...ya don't need Tony right now.

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 09:31 AM

Feral Skeleton

Marilyn,
        I see you are averse to supporting the Chin, who are culturally disinclined to travel by boat to other countries to seek refuge from the abominable Burmese Military Regime, every bit as draconian and evil as the Taliban. Are they not worthy of your advocacy? Do you not concede that we, as humanitarian Australians, should balance the ledger with more of them than we have been taking in of those who are not averse to paying for a boat ride to Australia?
   I also see elsewhere that you are happy to see a certain number of them drown, so as to get the majority of them into Australia. I think that attitude is reprehensible.

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 09:34 AM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        Yes, that would be The Australian trying to play both ends against the middle again, stirring a new pot wrt the Sudanese. Shameless, aren't they?
   Actually, what would be the interesting back story is to see which political party is working behind the scenes to get the Sudanese onside.

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 10:11 AM

One Eyed Hitman

"Nothing to see here, move along."

Really FS

If you were a member of the HSU you would not be concerned that your union funds were used routinely on hookers.

Plus I recall that Thomson claimed someone had fraudulently used his credit card which of course is a crime. But alas the NSW Police found no evidence of such a crime.

Which means Thomson lied .

But you are quite happy about that are you ?

One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 10:41 AM

Feral Skeleton

One Eyed Hitman,
                It's a matter of there being evidence available to support the laying of charges which you, from your 'one-eyed' morality standpoint, wish to have laid. There is none or not enough for that to happen. Sorry.
  Also, when I stated, 'Nothing to see hear, move along', I was merely echoing the words of the NewsRadio announcer this morning. If you wish to make a complaint to the ABC, go right ahead. As an obvious upholder of the nation's morals, if not it's laws, no doubt you will. To be consistent.
  Finally, by exclaiming that, if Craig didn't do it, then someone else must have and they are the ones who should now be investigated and charged, are you thus now standing up for Craig as the aggrieved party? Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 10:58 AM

One Eyed Hitman

FS

Clearly you do not wish to address my questions as its obviously too uncomfortable for you to answer.

I didn’t make a moral judgement as to whether going to see prostitutes is correct as you allude to with your “look over there” tactic.

I asked whether if you were an HSU member you would be happy to have one of your execs using the HSU credit card for whoremongering.

Well would you ?

And further to that use Thomson claims that the card was used fraudulently (a crime) but NSW Police have found no evidence of a crime committed.

So are you happy with the fact that Thomson must have lied ?

But I suppose you’ll try and take this off on yet another tangent rather than actually answering the question wont you ?

One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 11:07 AM

NormanK

Let's not take Stephen Conroy's word for it. Tony Abbott is like a doddery old uncle who's lost his grasp on reality. Either that or he is being poorly serviced by his staff in terms of being kept up to date on issues of importance. Or he is a lying hound who will say and do anything to make a favourable impression with an audience, no matter how small in number and no matter how big the lie.
How to choose? Hmmm.

Communication key in Outback: Abbott
by Amanda Wright

RURAL and remote communities should have the same access to medical and telecommunications services as their city and coastal counterparts, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has said on a visit to Birdsville at the weekend.

***********************************************

Mr Abbott expressed his concern about the inadequate telecommunication infrastructure in remote and rural communities, including Mount Isa.
He said Mount Isa should have access to fibre optic cable as soon as possible and should not be excluded from the National Broadband Network due to its remote location.
"It would significantly improve broadband and mobile phone coverage in the region," he said.
"It's the sort of thing we could get cracking on straight away."


Oops, someone beat you to it Tony.

Mount Isa was the first place on mainland Australia to receive fibre optic cable, which will allow much faster internet connections, last year after Melbourne-based company Nextgen won the contract to lay 3825km of cable from Darwin to Toowoomba at a cost of $125.5 million.

But then you knew that didn't you Tony?

www.northweststar.com.au/.../2280203.aspx

NormanK

September 8. 2011 11:12 AM

Ad astra reply

One Eyed Hitman
Welcome to TPS.  Do come again.

As the Craig Thomson matter is being referred to the Victoria Police, we need to wait for its assessment, although the fact that the NSW Police found he had no criminal case to answer suggests that it is unlikely, although not impossible, that Victoria Police will also find that he has nothing to answer.

Although no doubt disappointed at the decision of the NSW Police, it seems as if the Coalition will try still to squeeze as much adverse publicity from this saga as it can.  What it will do next will be watched with interest.

They may take the view that you seem to be expressing, that Thomson is guilty of claiming that someone else used his card and that if the NSW Police found no evidence of such a crime that makes Thomson a liar.  Did the NSW Police investigate that?  I’ve looked at all the media accounts of that issue I could find, but that particular one wasn’t mentioned.  Perhaps you have other information.  Unless you have, we should wait until all the investigations have been completed.  As Wayne Swan said this morning: "If people have got allegations to make they should be dealt with in the normal way, free from the lynch-mob mentality which the Liberal Party is pursuing”.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 11:14 AM

Feral Skeleton

One Eyed Hitman,
                I didn't avoid answering your question, I just pointed out a few facts as they rest with this case.
Now, if I were an HSU Member, which, as a Public Hospital Pharmacist I used to be a long time ago actually, then yes, I would certainly be aggrieved at the misuse of an HSU Credit Card. Whether it was used to pay for Escort Services, or a sandwich and a milkshake, is neither here nor there, really. Also, as a taxpayer, I am just as much aggrieved to know that Tony Abbott appears to have misused the government's 'credit card' to pay for his Book Tour to promote his book 'Battlelines'. However, there is not much more I can do about it and must move along, as with the Thomson matter now because no charges have been laid against him. Them's the cold-hard facts, Mr One-Eyed, which we all must swallow hard on.
  Might I also just add that I challenge you to prove, with evidence, that Craig Thomson has lied, especially considering the published information to the effect that he has evidence to prove that he was in another State of Australia, on official HSU business, when the alleged offences occurred.

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 11:20 AM

One Eyed Hitman

“Did the NSW Police investigate that?”

Ad Astra

Indeed they did. As under the Crimes Act of NSW it was claimed that a fraud had taken place in the state of New South Wales when it had not.

Which makes Thomson a liar in that regard.

The matter has been referred to Victorian Police to ascertain whether he misused the card as the HSU is registered in Victoria.

So it’s a different matter.

Therefore you, just like FS, also seem to be content that

a)HSU funds were used to procure prostitutes
b)Thomson has lied.

I’m glad the two of you are comfortable with that

One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 11:23 AM

Ad astra reply

NormanK
That’s an interesting article from The North West Star.  On past performance I would put Tony Abbott’s statements down to his habit of saying to whatever audience he’s addressing what they want to hear, and in the process implying that they are being dudded by the Government.  He would say that even if he knew that this was not so.  Whether his office slipped up on briefing him we will never know; information and facts are irrelevant to him in his pursuit of political advantage.  That’s how he operates.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 11:35 AM

Ad astra reply

One Eyed Hitman
Have you a reference/link to your claim that NSW Police investigated whether Thomson’s assertion that someone else used his credit card was or was not true?  I couldn’t find mention of that particular issue, but you may have.

You may also wish to advance the evidence to back your assertion that I am "content that

 HSU funds were used to procure prostitutes
 and that Thomson has lied”.  You are welcome to come here to express your views, but do try to support your assertions, especially if they are derogatory towards other bloggers, with evidence.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 11:54 AM

One Eyed Hitman

“Have you a reference/link to your claim that NSW Police investigated whether Thomson’s assertion that someone else used his credit card was or was not true? “

NSW Police investigated whether a crime had been committed in NSW. Last time I looked fraud was indeed a crime under the Crimes Act of NSW but clearly if that’s not the case in whatever locale that you reside in then you could be forgiven for totally missing my point.

Now given Thomson claimed that someone else used his telephone+rang an escort agency+fraudulently used his drivers licence as proof of identity+fraudulently signed a credit card voucher but NSW Police can find no evidence of any fraud then that clearly implies that Thomson lied. And don’t forget this unidentified person then repaid the HSU according to Thomson

I am simply asking 2 very simple questions which none of you seem comfortable in answering.

So if there was no crime committed:

a)are you therefore comfortable with the fact that Thomson must have lied and
b)further if you were a member of the HSU would you be comfortable with an officeholder using an HSU issued credit card to procure prostitutes.

Very simple questions which none of you wish to address

One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 12:22 PM

Ad astra reply

One Eyed Hitman
As far as I am aware this is your first time here, but already you seem to be taking an antagonistic line.  Please reassure me if that is not your intent.

In your 11.20 am post, you say: ” Therefore you, just like FS, also seem to be content that 

a) HSU funds were used to procure prostitutes 
b) Thomson has lied.” Please show where I have: ‘seemed to be content’.  I cannot see anywhere I have commented on whether I am or am not ‘content’.

You go onto say at 11.54 am “I am simply asking 2 very simple questions which none of you seem comfortable in answering."  FS has already answered you at 11.14 am.  I choose not to be cajoled by you into answering your questions.

Finally, where is your reference/link?  It is no good coming on here asserting that ”NSW Police investigated whether a crime had been committed in NSW.”  Where I live there is more than one crime.  My specific question to you was whether you had evidence that the NSW Police had investigated the crime of someone else illegitimately using Thomson’s credit card.  You seem to be saying they did investigate that and found that not to be the case, and therefore you conclude Thomson has lied.  Produce your evidence.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 12:28 PM

NormanK

One Eyed Hitman
I suspect you are being deliberately obtuse.
The question being asked of you is to provide some evidence that NSW police have looked into fraud having been committed by someone other than Thomson. Every report that I have seen alludes to the investigation into alleged fraud committed by Thomson himself. No mention of Thomson having made his own official allegations of fraud against another individual and certainly no mention of the NSW police stating that there is no evidence of wrong-doing by some other individual.
If you have proof that the NSW police have entertained the idea of instigating charges against an unnamed individual for fraudulently using Thomson's card, perhaps you'd like to share a quote with us and provide a link to your source.

As for your other contention (which as Ad astra pointed out is completely baseless) that some here are comfortable with an officeholder using an HSU issued credit card to procure prostitutes may I refer you back to Feral Skeleton's comment @ 11.14 AM.
It reads (in part):
Now, if I were an HSU Member........... then yes, I would certainly be aggrieved at the misuse of an HSU Credit Card. Whether it was used to pay for Escort Services, or a sandwich and a milkshake, is neither here nor there, really. .................. there is not much more I can do about it and must move along .....

I don't think you'll find many people here who would try to make the case that union officials don't misuse their members' funds in much the same way as executives on corporations misuse funds for personal entertainment. If the main thrust of your argument is that steps should be taken to limit the misuse of funds for personal entertainment then I suspect you would get a decent following here. Question is: how are you going to do it? How will your cause be advanced by punishing someone who has done no wrong in the estimation of the police? The police have had their say and at the next election the electorate will have their say. Calling for heads to roll based on little more than gossip and a disconnected paper trail is not the way that I understand our legal and political systems work.

NormanK

September 8. 2011 12:46 PM

Trevor

After having everything thrown at them over the last few weeks & still standing, in fact, given yesterdays national accounts, still performing.  Is there anything left in the locker for the combination of Mitchell & the Libs to throw?  The next parliamentary sitting will be interesting, I suspect the libs will drop the Thompson affair especially as their own senator is now getting a bit more publicity.  The only thing they will want to talk about will be asylum seekers.  But with the ALP in control of the agenda and bringing on the carbon abatement legislation if they dont step up to debate this they will look sillier than usual.

Maybe a big call at the moment but I think we may have just had Tony's Waterloo.  Nothing left in the locker and his scare campaigns and misinformation increasingly being exposed.  As the general public comes to realise that he is bereft of ideas other than "lets start a fight" & " the sky is falling be afraid people" they will turn.   And I think it could happen quickly.  As others have commented once the Carbon abatement legislation has passed his agenda is extremely hollow.

Perhaps another piece of evidence of desperation is the increased activity of right wing trolls on sites such as this.  Dunno if I am the only one but I seem to be seeing more of them here, on Crikey and others.  Maybe an order has gone out form party HQ.

Trevor

September 8. 2011 12:50 PM

Gravel

Hello to regular TPSer's.  My you have all been busy and I only missed a day.

Lyn

Again I now have so many of your wonderful links to catch up on.  I don't like the sound of a couple of them but will give them a go.  I can always go to something else, like I can always read and contribute to other blogs that I like.  

Gravel

September 8. 2011 01:17 PM

One Eyed Hitman

FS

Absolutely no evidence has been produced by Thomson to prove he was in fact in another state. At this stage it is simply another claim along with all the others that Thomson has made.

As far as the cold hard facts are concerned the NSW Police have found that no crime has been committed when Thomson has claimed someone else used his licence (illegal in NSW) and forged his HSU Credit Card signature (illegal in NSW)

NSW Police have found no crime committed therefore Thomson has lied.

Ad Astra

My apologies I was not aware of FS’ post at 11:14am as I was typing in response to your post at the time and I was later distracted. My oversight.

I don’t believe I am being antagonistic at all.

However it is Thomson who has claimed that a fraud was committed in the misuse of his drivers licence and the forging of his signature. And that’s why the fraud squad was engaged and they stated that :

"………. there was no evidence to warrant a formal investigation by NSW Police,"

Note that they said there was “no evidence”.

But how can that be ?

How can there be “no evidence”?

Let me tell you for free

There is no evidence because there was no crime.

i.e. Thomson lied.

You just refuse to admit it.

One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 01:20 PM

sue

Norman K
The thing that is so scary about the article from the North West Star is that the people Abbott was addressing did not know that Mount Isa was the first place on the mainland to have cable laid. What is scarier is that the journalist Amanda Wright did not lead with this information and that Tony Abbott comments showed how misinformed he was.

sue

September 8. 2011 01:29 PM

One Eyed Hitman

NormanK

Thomson has committed no crime in lying to the general public or to his colleagues.

He has claimed that someone else used his credit card plus his D/L. That is a crime in NSW. But the police have not found any evidence of this.

Why ?

Because it never happened that’s why.

He used the credit card.

Thompson made the allegations and even knows who repaid the union. For some reason he has refused to make the same allegations to NSW Police.

Why ?

Because it is a crime to lie to the Police.

Thomson lied.

And you lot are Deniars !

One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 01:35 PM

Trevor

Hitman.  Your allegation is that Thompson is potentially a sleaze.  OK got that and you may be right, who knows.  But what do you propose is done about it?  And just remember if we are going to apply this remedy to Thompson it should be applied across the parliament.  

Trevor

September 8. 2011 01:36 PM

Ad astra reply

One Eyed Hitman
NormanK has responded to your comments with calm logic.  I need say no more, except that when all the investigations are complete, when Thomson has made his statement, and when all the evidence is available for public examination, if in fact the NSW Police has specifically examined whether there was fraudulent use of Thomson’s card, and found that not to be so, then ipso facto Thomson must have been lying about this particular matter.  Then we will all be in a position to pass moral judgement about him, if we so desire.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 01:44 PM

NormanK

Here is an example of one of the things that are wrong with reporting in Australia today. It is not political and it is in the Fairfax Press.

Police probe Story Bridge camera footage for clues to death
by Marissa Calligeros

The teaser on Google and the text accompanying the attached video reads:

Police are investigating the alleged axe murder of a 14-year-old girl in Brisbane, her 48-year-old mother jumped to her death off the Story Bridge.

And yet within the text of the article we find that:

Police have still not clarified the relationship between Sidonie and Ms Patterson, despite media reports they were mother and daughter.

and:

Police have also not confirmed how Sidonie died or whether it was her father that discovered the body.

www.smh.com.au/.../...to-death-20110907-1jxqz.html

Conjecture dressed up as fact in order to suck in readers. Yes, they used 'alleged' but that is standard practice when dealing with something which may end up before the courts. Why fabricate 'hooks' when the facts themselves are interesting enough if that type of story is your bent?

NormanK

September 8. 2011 01:50 PM

NormanK

One Eyed Hitman

You're not actually serious are you? You accuse people here of refusing to answer questions and yet you refuse to do so yourself.
Let's be crystal clear and use your own words.

He has claimed that someone else used his credit card plus his D/L. That is a crime in NSW. But the police have not found any evidence of this.

So you are saying that the police in NSW have found no evidence that someone else used his credit card. Your source please.

NormanK

September 8. 2011 01:55 PM

NormanK

sue

I would have liked to see that article in The North West Star turned upside down, leading with the facts and relating it to Abbott's lies. Then I would have liked it splashed right around all of the media houses.

I am not sure that we can assume that his audience was unaware of the cable in their area but obviously this doesn't put Tony off his stride.
Is it any wonder some of us are completely gobsmacked at the current state of political reporting?

NormanK

September 8. 2011 02:01 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

Just letting you know how twitter feels about Mr Popularity, Judge and Jury.  

Hee hee hee, they thought they had Government, so to save face, are
now saying Craig Thomson is still guilty, trouble is they can't find what for.  Maybe the Liberals can scratch around like chooks for the next 2 years, sorry chooks nothing personal:


esseeeayeennSéan Hawkes
No charges to be laid against Craig Thomson. How is Sen Mary-Jo Fisher going on stealing and assault charges?

SandyKellyBlogSandy Kelly

ABC Lawyers l
looking at George Brandis ABC radio interviews re Craig Thomson. Brandis pulled out of ABC Breakfast News, radio grabs on hold.
30 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply

OverTheHill4OverTheHill

BreakfastNews Legal issues? George Brandis must have forgot
ten no parliamentry privilege out in the real world can`t defame and slur!
31 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply@

AshGhebraniousAshGhebranious
Dear Senator George Brandis. Thank you for you pointless and time wasting probe request. signed THE NSW POLICE #auspol #craigthomson
2 hours agoFavoriteRetweetReply

BernardKeaneBernard Keane
we need a position created for George Brandis - Rortfinder-General, empowered to hunt down rorts regardless of the law. or even any rorts.
1 minute agoFavoriteRetweetReply
gordongrahamGordon Graham

George Brandis should step down as Shadow Attorney General immediately. Pyne should do the sme as Manager of Opposition Business #auspol
13 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply
marlowstevensMarlow Stevens

ABC24 lawyers stop the airing of George Brandis interviews on ABC Radio this morning. This is getting ridiculous.
31 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply

mrumensMarian Rumens

George Brandis trying to talk his way out of embarrasing enthusiasm to get Craig Thomson
41 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply
OverTheHill4OverTheHill

@BreakfastNews The cowardly George Brandis too gutless to face the media for his incompetent and inflamatory assertions! @mjrowland68
45 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply
esseeeayeennSéan Hawkes

@
@AshGhebranious Sen George Brandis should be charged with wasting police time and his conduct should be referred to ICAC #auspol
2 hours agoFavoriteRetweetReply


Update on credit card allegations
Thursday, 08 September 2011 02:34:31 AM  NSW Police Force


Mr Thomson’s credit card, it was concluded that based on the accounting practises of the Union relating to the use of corporate
credit cards, there was no evidence to warrant a formal investigation by NSW Police.
www.police.nsw.gov.au/.../media_release_archive

Labor calls for end to Coalition 'mudslinging' against embattled MP Craig Thomson , News Com
Based on the subsequent material and information provided to NSW Police by the Health Services Union, including a 120 page document relating to their
own examination of the use of Mr Thomson's credit card, it was concluded that based on the accounting practices of the union relating to the use of
corporate credit cards, there was no evidence to warrant a formal investigation by NSW Police,” police said in a statement.
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226131979353


Case against embattled MP appears 'dead',    Dylan Welch , The Age

The decision will be a setback for the shadow federal attorney-general, George Brandis, who wrote a legal letter to NSW Police

Commissioner Andrew Scipione, laying out the allegations against Mr Thomson and urging police to investigate.

www.theage.com.au/.../...-dead-20110907-1jxub.html

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 8. 2011 02:01 PM

sue

NormanK
I sent a copy of the article to my local MP, you never know they may use it to attack Abbott in the parliament.

sue

September 8. 2011 02:16 PM

Ad astra reply

Trevor
Like you, I wonder how long those responsible for reporting the facts accurately and fully, namely the media, will be able to get away with promulgating misinformation, incomplete information, and downright lies about the state of politics in this country.  When will the media expose the shallowness of Abbott’s rhetoric, the paucity of his policies, and the emptiness and inadequacy of those he has already heralded, for example his Direct Action Plan that will reward the polluters, cost households an estimated $1300 extra per year, require a vast Green Army to, among other things, plant millions of trees on millions of hectares of suitable land (in fact on more arable land that we have in this country), and do all this with a reduced public service laid waste to achieve the $70 billion of budget savings the Coalition is chasing?  Why is Abbott not called to account for his policy nonsense and economic ignorance?

A hint of the reason is in the link NormanK gave us to The North West Star reporting on Abbott’s visit to Birdsville.  The journalist started with: ”Rural and remote communities should have the same access to medical and telecommunications services as their city and coastal counterparts, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has said on a visit to Birdsville at the weekend.” Eight more paragraphs followed where Abbott implied that not enough was being done with the words: “It's the sort of thing we could get cracking on straight away."  It was not until paragraph ten that we read: “Mount Isa was the first place on mainland Australia to receive fibre optic cable, which will allow much faster internet connections…”  So the Government has got ‘cracking’ already, but no acknowledgement of that was made by Abbott, nor did the journalist express surprise that he seemed unaware of that salient fact, or unwilling to acknowledge it.

The piece ought to have begun with: “Speaking in Birdsville about the need for communications facilities in remote areas, such as Mount Isa, as good as available in the cities, the Opposition Leader seemed unaware that Mount Isa was the first place on mainland Australia to receive fibre optic cable, which will allow much faster internet connections.”

This phenomenon of simply not holding Abbott and the Coalition to account for its omissions and its incompetence is what is holding the Government back – unless this is done the public will go on seeing it as a viable alternative, when all it offers is what we have seen so far.  What you see is what you will get, and that is appalling.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 02:28 PM

jane

FS @815am, hmmmm, Mal Brough. Don't worry our two visiting super corruption detectives have.....n't said a word. But rest assured one of them is continuing his relentless exposé of Thomson's um um lack of guilt?

And in the interests of fair and unbiased detecting and an alsmost fanatical devotion to truth and honesty, he'll completely ignore the fact that good ol' Mal was caught with his fingers in the till and will be [strike]refused access to the office safe[/strike] allowed to have the password to the bank account.

Can't have good ol' Honest Mal denied access to the funds just because he actually did embezzle funds.

ToM, HSU have been looking for the past several years, but still haven't found any evidence that Thomson was on the fiddle.

Plus I recall that Thomson claimed someone had fraudulently used his credit card which of course is a crime. But alas the NSW Police found no evidence of such a crime.

Which means Thomson lied .


Which means they didn't find any evidence such a crime was committed.

OTOH, if you strenuously denied beating your wife and the police found no evidence such a crime had been committed, should we then assume you lied? Excellent.

I suppose it will save all that tiresome trial by jury and conviction on the evidence stuff. Just like the good old days with Uncle Joe.

Have you alerted the criminal justice system of your fascinating new method of determining guilt without evidence or proof? Should go down a treat.  

jane

September 8. 2011 02:34 PM

Ad astra reply

sue
You are right.  I agreed with you in my last post: the way Abbott presented his assertions and the way they were reported, perpetuates the ignorance that abounds in the community about what the Government is doing and what the Opposition proposes as an alternative.

While some blame can be laid at the feet of the Government for ‘not getting its message out’, how does it do this with a hostile media that either does not report its successes, or contaminates them with negatives, as it did with the BER, a media that transmits without question the misinformation the Coalition spreads.  Can any Government, no matter how good, succeed when the media is actively antagonistic?

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 02:44 PM

Sir Ian Crisp

It would appear that young Craig has been put in a difficult position by the NSW Police. The police investigation has found no evidence of fraud which means repeated claims that someone else used the c/c are false. That might mean that the holder of the c/c was the person who used it to succumb to life's carnal vices.

If not true then young Craig will dash with lightning speed to commence legal actions against his detractors and those who are sullying his good name and character.

Sir Ian Crisp

September 8. 2011 02:47 PM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
Thank you for the succession of tweets you have posted about the Craig Thomson matter.  Having read them all, and the links, it seems as if the Coalition’s continued pursuit of Thomson is related to the misuse of union funds.  I have not seem any mention of them pursuing him on the grounds of the illegal use of his credit card by someone else, or that if this is not so, his lying about it.  Maybe that line is being kept up their sleeves for later.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 02:47 PM

NormanK

Ah, good on you Mr Abbott. A devout Christian and committed family man has extended the hand of goodwill to his political opponents.

Coalition says it will maintain its pursuit of embattled Labor MP Craig Thomson
UPDATED LANAI VASEK

Mr Abbott also warned today that Mr Thomson would not be granted a parliamentary “pair” to attend the birth of his child if it occurred during the upcoming carbon tax debate.

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226132273831

Oops, maybe I misread that.

NormanK

September 8. 2011 02:58 PM

Ad astra reply

NormanK
What else would we expect from Tony Abbott?  Angry about not being able to tear Thomson to shreds right away, he’s going to inflict as much suffering as he can on him and on the Government.  There is not one bone of benevolence in his body for his opponents.

I see Sir Ian is echoing One Eyed Hitman.  They’re not one and the same are they?  No, no one could match Sir Ian.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 03:08 PM

sue

Let us hope the Nastiness of Abbott and his "pairs" is given the full exposure on the television. Abbott's compassion should be the number one topic for the masses.
At least Abbott is polling as "nasty" in the SMH

sue

September 8. 2011 03:17 PM

Ad astra reply

Jane
I hadn’t heard about Mal Brough.  Any references/links?

BTW TPS doesn’t use [strike].  It uses square brackets around i, b, u, or quote.  Highlight the text and click one of these icons (above the Comments box) for emphasis.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 03:20 PM

TalkTurkey

Swordsfolks Hi.

First hello and welcome to Sue and Jean and Jane and all other goodwilled first-timers I might have missed, TPS regulars corporately bid you welcome, with just that one hyphenated adjectival proviso above.

Seems though the dreaded TT got another illwillian to have fun with now! Really mes amis he's not worth the effort, trolls know I got the wood on them. This latest monocular one seems like Abbortt on ice!

Folks if you have the time and inclination, do go just this once to that appropriately-named blogsite, you will know the one I mean, and check out what a few of them have to say about TT yesterday/today, see the funny fact is that I have long since addressing any of them by their poodonyms, and I only ever give them a serve at all when they come boddering Yous lot, because they don't bodder me at all!

But it seems when I have fun with them they get badly injured. I do care about that, as deeply as Abbortt cares for workers.
They said things yesterday like wtte I am inarticulate, which us TT's are far from, and intimated that I was pursuing one of them in particular, which I have never, and claimed that i was a homophobic slagger, for which I invite any of them to provide the slightest evidence (because it ain't there.)

It is as clear evidence as one could wish for that these people on that site have no respect for Truth, and to give them enough credibility to take issue with their broadsides on such stuff as AS is going to get us nowhere but cross.  

Pity about this s/he/it from Queensland though, I thought he was sensible, seems s/he/it's just screwy, can't make head nor tail of his attitude, suits the company it appears he mostly keeps anyway.

There is only one serious aspect to these people Folks, and that is that to address them personally, or their spurious issues, especially to take issue with those spurious issues, is to feed them oxygen and fuel for their hate engines, and though we still get all the best thoughts from all the best writers, the flaming wastes time, and it threatens the tone of this site. The only proper weapon against trolls is humour, you-all gotta stop taking them to heart! You too Ad! You mustn't worry, that is letting them get to you and playing their game! All they mean to me is an opportunity to amuse the rest of us, and you may note that yesterday one of them vowed never to come back, O Woe! Smile  

This flammenwurfering could happen anytime, folks, don't let it get to you, it's unimportant, keep your eye on the goals, the Wonkley Awards for TPS and for Ad this year, and winning the end-and-new-beginning game in 2013.


TROLLS ARE JUST FOR FUN. Smile

TalkTurkey

September 8. 2011 03:21 PM

sue

NormanK
you are a winner!!!!!!!!!!
The Mount Isa newspaper, the North West Star, this week reported Mr Abbott as saying a fibre network would "significantly" lift broadband and mobile phone coverage in remote areas.

"It's the sort of thing we could get cracking on straight away," Mr Abbott said in the interview.
w

Communications Minister Stephen Conroy seized on the comment as Mr Abbott endorsing the NBN, which will provide high-speed communications through a fibre-to-the-home network.

But a spokesperson for Mr Abbott said the comments were not a tick for the NBN.
news.smh.com.au/.../...sed-nbn-20110908-1jzas.html


CONGRATULATIONS Norman

sue

September 8. 2011 03:23 PM

Trevor

SIC  I see you haven't taken up my challenge of a day or so ago.

"I am however being genuine.  I would really love to hear someone from the right engage on an intellectual level, explain how Direct Action could reduce CO2E by 5 percent by 2020. And, why it would be a superior policy to a market based mechanism for trading emission credits.  Just as an example say."

I wrote that in response to a post by yourself triumphantly proclaiming the demise of the PM.  The Thompson affair is a sideshow.  I dont care if you believe he is a sleazebag, that's for the voters in his electorate.  He is not going to get prematurely booted from his seat  which is the  only issue the opposition were concerned with so lets move on.

So I return to my earlier point.  Rather than just taking on the polemic role how about providing us with some insight into why the Liberal policy agenda would serve us better.

If, as like last time, you choose again just to regurgitate talking points, I understand.  IE you are too embarrassed to bring up any Liberal policies for discussion.

Trevor

September 8. 2011 03:46 PM

NormanK

sue

As much as I might like to bask in the glory I have to point out that all I did was backtrack from an article in Lyn's Links this morning.

Abbott has endorsed NBN: Conroy

news.ninemsn.com.au/.../abbott-has-endorsed-nbn-conroy

I wanted to make sure that Conroy was not verballing Abbott and to check the context of Abbott's remarks - hence The North West Star article. It might be worth following through to see where the NBN is up to in that area - as I understand it the contract was just for the backbone link.

Aside: Damn, damn, damn. I was enjoying that.

NormanK

September 8. 2011 03:47 PM

Ad astra reply

sue
Abbott’s unbeatable formula is: say anything you like to please the audience you are facing, and if that comes back to haunt you, just deny it meant what you actually said.  Simple. And it works because the compliant media let him get away with this double talk over and again.

TT
I know I’m a sucker when it comes to new bloggers.  I assume they come with goodwill and speak with the sweet voice of reason.  Sometimes I get it wrong, and when I do, and reason seems not to work, I give up.  But I like to give them the benefit of any doubt initially.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 03:48 PM

jane

Maybe there could be a quiet word about a pursuit of Mal Brough.

OTOH, could there be a scent of Utegate? Wouldn't that be a joy? Perhaps we could organise an email.

Denying Thomson a pair if his new baby is born when the carbon pricing bill is being debated, is an act of pure bastardry by Liealot and should be condemned.

Not bad from someone who claims to be family friendly. It's a real example as to what sort of person he is. A nasty, unprincipled, liar.

No more Ms Nice PM, I think she should go straight for Liealot's throat, rip it out, reach down into his chest, tear out his still beating heart, eat it in front of him and stick his head on a pike.

Then I think she should think of something really terrible to do to him!

jane

September 8. 2011 03:50 PM

TalkTurkey

Tweetie-Bird Lyn said

"Hee hee hee, they thought they had Government, so to save face, are now saying Craig Thomson is still guilty, trouble is they can't find what for.  Maybe the Liberals can scratch around like chooks for the next 2 years, sorry chooks nothing personal Smile "

Lyn you are a delight.

A while ago you asked me when were my predictions about Labor's rising fortunes going to kick in. Well Lyn the thing is that the bad ship Coalon ran out of cannonballs nearly a year ago, but the Media hadn't woken up to that at all until recently, because Captain Abbortt has been using up the crew's supply of cheese to feed the cannons, and a lot of ham, barrels of tobacco, bags of flour, makes a great show but now they got almost nothing left, can you guess what they're scooping up as ammo now?, yeah right urgh!, but the funny part is now they're having to fire into the wind, ha ha, look what happened to Brandis this morning! And they'll even run out of their own self-made ammo very soon, but it's already starting to coat them.

And the Media is losing patience and belief. DYWAT!

Meanwhile the Government is building up its stock of weapons  . . . NBN . . . BER . . . Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick  . . .

Carbon pricing this week! Smile

Don't you fret Tweetie, dat mean ol puddy tat NEVER gonna get You nor any of Us.

VENCEREMOS! NO PASARAN!

TalkTurkey

September 8. 2011 03:52 PM

Ad astra reply

jane
I haven’t had as good a laugh for ages as your second last sentence gave me.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 03:58 PM

One Eyed Hitman

“So you are saying that the police in NSW have found no evidence that someone else used his credit card. Your source please.”

You are joking aren’t you ?

Please quantify exactly how many times this needs to be explained to you ?

Thomson alleged that that the signature on the card was not his. He also alleged that someone else used his D/L as identity. Both actions are criminal offences in NSW.

Do you need me to repeat that ?

I’ll assume you can comprehend that and continue.

That is an allegation of the crime of  fraud

Thomson claims that the party responsible repaid the debt but he wont say who it is.

The NSW Police FRAUD SQUAD have found that no crime/fraud took place.

If no crime/fraud took place it means Thomson signed the card and used his D/L to ID HIMSELF.

Now exactly what part of that do you not comprehend ?

Oh that’s right its this part isn’t it

THOMSON LIED


One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 04:02 PM

One Eyed Hitman

And sorry Jane but your comments aree not even worthy of a response.

You do need to try harder

One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 04:02 PM

NormanK

If anyone cares, NBN Co maps show the cable has reached Alice Springs and is continuing southwards and it divided at Tennant Creek (north of Alice) and is on its way east to Mt Isa. It would appear that they started in Darwin and are working their way south with teams heading both east and west from different junction points as well. Lovely.

www.nbnco.com.au/.../nt.html#coverage_assets

NormanK

September 8. 2011 04:05 PM

Trevor

I think we are in a loop Hitman.  This from my post in response to you at 1:35.

"Hitman. Your allegation is that Thompson is potentially a sleaze.  OK got that and you may be right, who knows.  But what do you propose is done about it?  And just remember if we are going to apply this remedy to Thompson it should be applied across the parliament."  

So stop SHOUTING and let us know what you would like to happen.

Trevor

September 8. 2011 04:07 PM

NormanK

One Eyed Hitman

It's no use shouting the same things over and over again. A source please that plainly spells out that the NSW police looked at charging someone other than Thomson with fraud. Every report that I have read refers to Thomson and the possibility that he himself committed fraud. No mention of an unnamed individual or police examining Thomson's statements that someone else used his card.
Last chance OEH. Source please.

NormanK

September 8. 2011 04:13 PM

lyn

Norman K

You little devil, you know, I was watching you, I don't miss
much.

  I will tell you though I did go to Today's Links to check channel 9's story again at 11:07 AM, but I couldn't see how you tracked
down the North West Star Story.

So you see, you really do deserve Congratulations from Sue.
                             I will say congratulations too.

To the story, it is just more proof of how fake Abbott is, saying anything to get whoever is with him onside.  Isn't it a commercial  advertising trick he is playing.  I may have to change my statement tomorrow, who cares, a couple will still believe me, maybe I will get 1 out of 4.

Abbott rejects claim he endorsed NBN , SMH,  3:19PM

The Mount Isa newspaper, the North West Star, this week reported Mr Abbott as saying a fibre network would "significantly" lift broadband and mobile phone coverage in remote areas.

"It's the sort of thing we could get cracking on straight away," Mr Abbott said in the interview


But a spokesperson for Mr Abbott said the comments were not a tick for the NBN.

"Tony's remarks were a direct endorsement of what the coalition's policy can do for regional Australia, unlike the wasteful and poorly targeted NBN," the spokesperson said.

news.smh.com.au/.../...sed-nbn-20110908-1jzas.html

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 8. 2011 04:30 PM

lyn

Hi Jane

Like Ad Astra, I got a huge big needed laugh out of your comment, as well.

Funny though my brain is playing tricks on me, it won't stop
banging on about "the Head on the pike and what to do next".
I'll tell you there is some pretty awful thoughts going on  upstairs.

No more Ms Nice PM, I think she should go straight for Liealot's throat, rip it out, reach down into his chest, tear out his still beating heart, eat it in front of him and stick his head on a pike.

Then I think she should think of something really terrible to do to him!
jane


Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 8. 2011 04:31 PM

One Eyed Hitman

Norman K

The NSW Police looked at whether a crime had occurred. They concluded nothing of a criminal nature occurred and therefore have not proceeded any further.

How black and white does this need to be for you ?

They have found no evidence of any crime in relation to Thomson’s allegations that someone else used his card or D/L.

I have not even alleged that Thomson committed a fraud. You brought that up.

So if no crime has been committed which does not surprise me at all then that means that Thomson is full of bullshit.

Being full of bullshit is not a crime (otherwise you’d be serving Life)

One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 04:33 PM

One Eyed Hitman

Trevor

I’m not saying something should happen. I’m just making the observation that Thomson is a liar.

And he’s possibly got company in that on the other side of the House.

One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 04:49 PM

NormanK

One Eyed Hitman

You see this is where our interpretations differ and why I want a source from you. You say:
They have found no evidence of any crime in relation to Thomson’s allegations that someone else used his card or D/L.
They weren't investigating Thomson's assertions - they were looking at Brandis's allegations.
Brandis alleged that Thomson had committed fraud through improper use of his credit card. The union made documents available so that police could check to see if it was worth investigating Thomson for fraudulent use of his credit card.

They have come out today and said that they felt that they couldn't make a case against Thomson. To my knowledge they have not investigated whether someone, anyone other than Thomson, may have fraudulently used his card. No-one has asked them to do that - they were looking at Thomson and his use of the card, not the use of the card in general.

I'm patient. If you can produce a report that clearly states that Thomson's card was categorically NOT used by anybody in a fraudulent way then I'll be satisfied.

NormanK

September 8. 2011 04:54 PM

nasking

Lyn,
thnx for those tweets related to Brandis.

I was waitin' patiently this mornin' for him to show up on ABC 24...was told Squealer was gonna do an interview...waited...waited...waited - kinda like waitin' for Abbott to show up to that health debate w/ Nicola Roxon (okay, he actually did get there in time to verbal Roxon whilst added sweet FA to the debate) - but as for old brandy balls...that shiny spotted dome never appeared.

I imagine his many many fans were deflated. Very rude, very rude indeed.

Perhaps he was busily writing to Victoria police...and ringin' the Victorian police minister? Smile

Or perhaps he was havin' a colonic?

memories:

Tony Abbott swears at Labor counterpart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7aj8B5sM2o

but...but...but...Tony Abbott reckons he doesn't talk like that.

N'  

nasking

September 8. 2011 04:56 PM

Patricia WA

NormanK re your first link today to the initial Northwest Star about Abbott and NBN info.  I did comment there about the way the story was angled.  I've had no follow up to it from the editor, though my comment was published.

Funny way to write a news report, Amanda, with the real information almost a footnote. Or perhaps you could have mentioned that Mr. Abbott was surprisingly ignorant about Mt. Isa being the first place on the mainland to receive fibre optic cable and was already well serviced.

The headline suggests that maybe your story has been re-angled by some sub editor, or even your editor?


Jane, thanks for the laugh.   Like Ad Astra I'd be interested in more info re Brough and funds being misused.  Any links?

Jason,  Have I missed your latest update on Mary Jo?  It's intriguing that the police have the bit between their teeth on this rather more determinedly than the store management. Nice to see the police support for that store detective yesterday.

Sue, where is the suggestion from Abbott that he won't pair Craig Thompson when his baby arrives?

Patricia WA

September 8. 2011 05:05 PM

NormanK

This is classic. Abbott and his spokesman are rewriting history on what was said with regard to Thomson and the allocation of a pair to attend the birth of his child.

Abbott doesn't rule out pair for Thomson

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is continuing to play hardball over the carbon tax debate, affirming the coalition's refusal to grant pairs to Labor MPs for anything but the most extraordinary of circumstances.

But he hasn't ruled out granting a pair to beleaguered Labor MP Craig Thomson whose wife is expecting a baby.

Visiting Mr Thomson's NSW central coast electorate of Dobell on Thursday, Mr Abbott was asked whether that could be relaxed for Mr Thomson to attend the birth of his child - an event which could fall during the protracted carbon tax debate.

"We have made it crystal clear that only in the most extraordinary circumstances will pairs be offered for the carbon tax vote," Mr Abbott told reporters.


news.smh.com.au/.../...thomson-20110908-1jzfw.html

So I went back to the story in The Australian, linked to above, only to find that this paragraph has been removed:

Mr Abbott also warned today that Mr Thomson would not be granted a parliamentary “pair” to attend the birth of his child if it occurred during the upcoming carbon tax debate.

Either the journalist was offering an overly presumptive interpretation or they have gone along with the revised version of history. Either way not a good look and it doesn't instill much faith in on-line news stories - they should all be labelled "Subject to Change Without Notice".

NormanK

September 8. 2011 05:05 PM

Jason

one eyed hitman,
               "if" Thomson has lied and managed to get away with it half his luck, if he used his card to procure prostitutes and got away with it again half his luck!
I don't care!
The only fact that remains today is he didn't get charged he didn't resign and no writts are about to be issued for a by election!
The opposition is in the same position today as it was yesterday!

Jason

September 8. 2011 05:07 PM

lyn


Hi Ad

See! now Abbott has turned everything the officials told him
yesterday completely around.
      
   'We invented offshore processing': Abbott, Channel nine
I didn't need to be told about offshore processing because the coalition invented offshore processing," Mr Abbott told reporters on the NSW central coast.

"(But) it was good to find the departmental officials still believe in offshore processing and the pity is that the government has not taken that advice over the last four years."


news.ninemsn.com.au/.../we-invented-offshore-processing-abbott

cheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 8. 2011 05:26 PM

lyn

Hi Ad and NormanK

Wolf says lets watch Abbott, I think he means liealot:-

Tony Abbott thinks Birth and Death are not extraordinary circumstances.  Insert Clever Title Here

Straight from the Tony Abbott’s website, a transcript of a door stop done 08/09/11 .

QUESTION:

Craig Thomson’s wife is heavily pregnant. Will you offer him a pair so that he can be at the birth of his child?

TONY ABBOTT:

Look, we’ve made it crystal clear that only in the most extraordinary circumstances will pairs be offered for the carbon tax vote. This is by far the most important vote that the Australian parliament will take in the current term of parliament and the first duty of members of parliament is to be in the parliament when critical votes are taken.

Watch as over the next few hours he tries and worms his way out of this.  He said what he said.  If he had meant yes, he would have said it.  But then given the Turnbull and Crean had a written document for a pairing arrangement for a funeral, this really doesn’t come as any surprise.

Cheers SmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 8. 2011 05:30 PM

Patricia WA

I'm really regretting wasting money on a subscription for Crikey.   Bernard Keane today was writing about the need to replace Wayne Swann as well as Julia Gillard just because he can't get people to believe what a great job the government is doing on the economy!  I was able to have a go at him in a comment about that, so I guess I'm getting some use from my money.

Bernard Keane, while pretending to independence has joined the MSM which acts as echo chamber for Tony Abbott and News Ltd.  They've been very effective in drowning out any attempts by the government to get their message out while at the same time accusing the government of doing a bad job of getting their message out.

Bernard Keane, along with Mungo McCallum of all people, joined Philip Adams on LNL in a boys' club smug, I-told-you-so conversation about Julia Gillard's demise and their personal opinion of the reasons for it.  Adams, a former ALP president, could do more to further the career of his good friend 'Kev' by supporting this government rather than destroying it.  

On the subject of Adams - can anyone who listened to his LNL conversation with Robert Manne a few days back about his critique of Murdoch and News Ltd in the Atlantic Monthly have any doubt about where his real loyalties lie?  I found his incredulity about the idea of Murdoch's personal involvement in the phone hacking scandal entirely unconvincing.  He so very cleverly changed the subject whenever Manne was getting too close to target. I was sickened by his smug confidence in his good mate "Rupert!"   He repeated that name again and again implying with that special note of pride his personal acquaintance, even friendship,  with the great man.

How clever was it of "Rupert" to coopt him as a columnist years ago and buy his loyalty not only with money but with 'friendship' and acquaintance with his inner circle?  I have a sense of Adams as a corrupted man who has managed to delude himself he resigned from the ALP on a principle. As 'iffy' as that other Labor 'power broker'  Richo.

Patricia WA

September 8. 2011 05:32 PM

nasking

Maybe a big call at the moment but I think we may have just had Tony's Waterloo.  Nothing left in the locker and his scare campaigns and misinformation increasingly being exposed.  As the general public comes to realise that he is bereft of ideas other than "lets start a fight" & " the sky is falling be afraid people" they will turn.   And I think it could happen quickly.

Trevor,
we're part way thru that battle.

We're really fighting Howard & Murdoch (It's as if Naploeon had two heads)...

Tony Abbott is just a very right wing Marshal...

and poor old Turnbull bein' setoff on this boring old NBN critic misadventure is Marshal Grouchy...

they're bringin' in the old imperial guard...the tried & tested...but they look a bit worn for wear...

Peter Reith looks like he could use what Warney's had...

Ruddock uses the young Liberal lad like a prop, crutch or wooden leg...

The ever graying Downer comes across in interviews like he's nervously busy preparin' for a fight with the weasels and stoats...or perhaps, the seekers of truth & justice...

Kevin Andrews exchanges artillery volleys w/ ammunition signed "Sermon on the Mount"...they're a real hit w/ the public, as ya can imagine...

Julie Bishop obviously has an Eveready battery...but like most right-wing women she's a bit submissive...in that she'll cop the verbal backhanders & insults & backstabs thrown at her constantly by the Coalition extremists...but never fails to stand up and declare loyalty to the boss...

Ian McFarlane looks as tho he finds the whole battle excruciatingly, embarrasingly  painful...and is itching to vacate the field and grab Mitch Hooke's job out from under him...give the mineral spokesman's job a distinct Aussie flavour...  

Ross Cameron sounds like a pompous arse at high tea...it's as tho he's practisin' to do a Bobbsey Twins thing w/ Peggy Noonan at The Wall Street Journal...

Mal Brough is probably fit enuff to put a few tents up & blow the bugle...retreat...retreat...

Smile

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 05:34 PM

Feral Skeleton

Is there a 'confused' emoticon? Because I'm confused by the verbal contortions Tony Abbott is going through today in order to keep fanning the flames of the dying embers of whatever passed for an attack on the government.

   Not only have I heard him say, straight-faced to camera, with that obnoxious Concetta Fieravanti-Welles in the background looking po-faced in order to give his words the patina of gravitas, that "Craig Thomson still has questions to answer, the Prime Minister still has questions to answer, and she should come clean and tell us what she knows(or wtte)". I can't for the life of me figure out what those questions are, and he won't state what those questions which Craig Thomson & the PM still have to answer are. Crazy stuff. Just so Abbott doesn't have to admit that he, and George Brandis and Christopher Pyne have egg all over their faces today. Gutless wonders the lot of them. Chief amongst whom is George Brandis, who is more than willing to use Coward's Castle to sling his merde around, and more than willing to let the Merdeoch media do some slinging on the Coalition's behalf(and if I were the PM and Craig Thomson, I'd be getting the lawyers to start preparing the Defo suits which would preoccupy Abbott, Brandis and Pyne, and possibly journalists and editors in the Murdoch media, all the way up to the election).

  I also note that Craig Thomson has said today that he will be releasing a full statement relating to these matters when the time is right, which by my estimation would probably be after the Victorian Police have had their chance to run over the material submitted to them by NSW. I also imagine it won't take them as long as it took the NSW Police because NSW would have the material in an easily reviewable state now.

   Then we'll see who has 'questions to answer'. And I fully expect Tony Abbott to try every which way but loose to squirm out of any responsibilty for the Fool's Errand he and Brandis sent the NSW and now the Victorian Police on. You should have seen the excuses he came up with at Sydney Uni in order to absolve himself of responsibility for breaking the plate glass door after he lost the election for Student Union President. He closed it too forcefully. Wink

   So not only that today, but I caught his attempt to paint over the unsuitability of Nauru, wrt the High Court Ruling on Offshore Detention, today, absolutely refusing to acknowledge the fact that Nauru is unsuitable as a destination to warehouse asylum seekers, as the interpreted law now stands. I imagine he's hoping to paper over this 'Inconvenient Truth' until he can bully the government, or so he hopes, into amending the Migration Act to make the use of Nauru legal. Of course, the government should give him no quarter there. They should stick to their guns and keep pushing for the Regional Solution, using Malaysia, which is the only one which will not lead to a failure to stem boat arrivals(Nauru is rightly seen now to be a mere waystation on the road to Australia). Human Rights provisions should be brought to those countries which do not have them, in concert with the UNHCR; the People Movers should be put out of business; the refugees who will not come on boats or who are too poor or too far away to pay for a boat journey should be accomodated in our Humanitarian Intake; and finally, and hopefully, the drownings will stop.

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 05:43 PM

nasking

BTW, I know One Eyed Hitman from another blog I was posting on...he'll just go on & on & on about the same issues...sees what the Coalition/Murdoch media thinks is an Achilles' heel and targets it ad nauseum.

Yawn.

BTW, good job Norman.
N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 05:46 PM

nasking

Senator Concetta Fierravanti-Wells

Feral,
is there a cure for that? Smile

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 05:47 PM

One Eyed Hitman

“….if he used his card to procure prostitutes and got away with it again half his luck!
I don't care!”

Jason,

What an attitude

What a piece of disgusting garbage you obviously are.

Your attitude towards the misuse of member’s funds seems to fit right in with the mindset of the “Leadership” of the Union Movement and the ALP.

I rest my case

My work here seems now done

One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 05:56 PM

lyn

I rest my case

My work here seems now done


Holoy dooley hooroo

lyn

September 8. 2011 06:01 PM

Jason

One eyed hitman,
               "What a piece of disgusting garbage you obviously are." well you did teach me everything I know!

Jason

September 8. 2011 06:02 PM

reb of Hobart

A message for One Eyed Hitman...

I see you have grown tired of the Gillard/Labor apologist cheer squad here...

Please feel welcome to join the rest of us here:

guttertrash.wordpress.com/.../

reb of Hobart

September 8. 2011 06:03 PM

2353

Lets see - the results of todays events in Canberra.

Abbott gets quoted in the NorthWest Star showing a complete lack of knowledge - and then attempts again to change the message.

Thomson is told the allegations referred to the NSW Police are not criminal.  Some of the newer posters on this site need to put up or shut up - produce your evidence or change the subject.

Senator Shoplifter from SA is still in court.

Slipper is still slippery & apparently Brough isn't much better.

How in this "Days of our Lives" script is anyone actually thinking about running the Country?

I'm beginning to look forward to the CPRS being passed by Parliament (with bleating and complaining from the LNP especially since they can't undo it for years!!!).  Then Australia needs to fix refugees, MRRT and actually sell the story of how good we have it here.  You've got 2 years to go PM - how about it!

2353

September 8. 2011 06:22 PM

NormanK

One Eyed Hitman
Since you don't have anything of consequence to contribute, I hope you don't get lonely chatting amongst yourself.

You know I reckon I could be forgiven for thinking, based on your tone and (for want of a better expression) your debating style, that you might have Victorian connections. It's a big call to accuse someone of using a sock-puppet since we know how reviled such people are when they turn up on blogs.

Nah, probably just a coincidence - you just happen to come from the same school.

Enjoy the rest of your day. I know I will.

NormanK

September 8. 2011 06:37 PM

One Eyed Hitman

"You know I reckon I could be forgiven for thinking, based on your tone and (for want of a better expression) your debating style, that you might have Victorian connections. It's a big call to accuse someone of using a sock-puppet since we know how reviled such people are when they turn up on blogs."

Once again you are wrong.

I'm not Tom of Melb if that is what you allude to.

As I said before if being full of shit was a crime you'd be serving Life.

By the way 2353 if you had the basic skills of a 4 year old you would have grasped that  my argument did not centre on criminality or not but on the clear implication that Thomson has lied.

You just choose to ignore that rather uncomfortable truth.

Noice talkin' to yuz

One Eyed Hitman

September 8. 2011 06:52 PM

nasking

I'm really regretting wasting money on a subscription for Crikey.   Bernard Keane today was writing about the need to replace Wayne Swann

Patricia,
I really enjoy Bernard Keane's pieces, even tho I don't agree w/ all of his observations. He's fairly balanced.

I agree w/ him that the "government is a good economic manager" message has generally failed to get out...but I don't blame Swanny for that...we have a public, as he mentions, that will grumble regardless these days...

like the poms & yanks we have a nation addicted to moanin'...not surprising considerin' the media that they read, listen to & watch...particularly, evening current affairs' shows and shock jocks...and the papers ain't much better.

And, I reckon Swanny's done a fine job helpin' to steer us thru some big waves (floods included) & one particular economic storm (GFC)...he deserves alot of credit...

but it would be an exhausting job...

particularly w/ the world economy & environment wobblin' so much so often...

therefore, fresh yet experienced hands are required...

it's useful he has Penny Wong - always thought she'd make a great future Treasurer...wouldn't the patriarchs luv that?...two capable women in charge of Australia...stick their noses in it -  and Bill Shorten by his side...pretty smart cookies...

I'm not sure why Bernard is so dismissive of Penny?

BTW, I hope to get a Crikey subscription for Xmas. I hope others do same.

We need to support alternative media. Good onya Patricia for doin' so.

N'

nasking

September 8. 2011 06:53 PM

TalkTurkey

He tries to throw poo as an art,
But all he can do is to phahhht
He's a minimum-wit-man
Who could be a hitman
If he added an 'S' at the start! Smile

FUN WITH TROLLS

   WE WIN! Smile

TalkTurkey

September 8. 2011 06:59 PM

jane

When you make a case ToM, you can rest it. All you've come up with is the same old tosh.

He doesn't have a case to answer, therefore he's guilty. Usual Liars Party mix of lies, distortions and innuendo.

You might get some respect if you showed a bit of balance, like wondering why two actual embezzlers are being trusted with phone cards and access to Liars Party funds.

Thomson does NOT have a case to answer and all the posturing by Liealot and cheerleaders like you doesn't alter it. Posture away, it just shows how bankrupt your opinions are, or should I say Liars Party talking points.

2353, there is no evidence, only regurgitated Liars Party talking points and Dolt's bullshit. The theory is that as the police have said there is no evidence against Thomson.

In the weird illogical Liars Party universe they inhabit, when the cops say there is no evidence of wrong doing and they've got real crimes to investigate, it's code for Thomson lied and he's guilty.

No doubt they'll be very cross when they find out that in this real universe, when the cops say there's no evidence of a crime, that's what they actually mean.

I wonder if they're really stalkers, they display all the illogical pathological traits of a stalker or a Liars Party cheerleader; interchangeable imo.

No matter how little evidence they have to support their claims, and in Thomson's case, there's sod all, they cling to the fantasy they've constructed.

Maybe Liealot will pull something other than excrement from his behind and save the day.

Here's an idea, maybe Liealot is getting his information from a Public Servant with a penchant for emails. B careful, chickens everywhere re buying eggs and it's rumoured the ALP is buying up.

If you here that the PM has leased a ute, I'd leave the building.

jane

September 8. 2011 07:03 PM

jane

should read: Be careful, chickens everywhere are laying eggs and it's rumoured the ALP is buying up.

New key board required.

jane

September 8. 2011 07:04 PM

Trevor

Lordy lordy lordy.  I thought the Hitman had sworn off TPS.  The debating skills of the right really do take your breath away.  

I guess we should all just lick our wounds and accept the shouting and abuse from Hitman has proved his point.  

My only confusion is. What is the point?  He conceded earlier that he was just making the point that he thinks Thompson lied.  Fine, plenty of other may hold the same view and there will also be quite a few who thinks he hasn't lied. It is all a mute point.  We can all form our own view on the matter & Hitman has his.  Fine.

I just don't understand what his argument is about.  None the less in order to move on to something of substance.  You win Hitman, I accept you think he lied.  Now go away.

Trevor

September 8. 2011 07:21 PM

Feral Skeleton

OOK, so now we at least have the questions Mr Abbott would like to see answered.
1. Why was the HSU Credit Card misused to pay for Prostitutes and lavish meals? Hmm, maybe TA could ask the same question of a slew of his business mates too.
2. Who misused the Credit Card? Well, I think we'd all like to know the answwer to that. However, it was pretty obviously not Craig Thomson.

   So, the point of continuing to pursue Craig Thomson and the PM over the matter, is?

   Of course, Mr Abbott is only altruistically pursuing these matters on behalf of the lowly-paid members of the HSU(and who keeps them 'lowly-paid, Tony? Not the political party which refused to support the government's push to give equal pay for the mostly women who work in the industry covered by the HSU because a lot of their employers are Coalition mates, eh?)

   The base political motives underpinning everything Tony Abbott does and says are becoming more and more obvious and transparent by the hour.

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 07:28 PM

Feral Skeleton

NormanK,
        I think you might find that the Liberal Cyclops is not a Victorian, and not a sock puppet.

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 07:32 PM

Feral Skeleton

   Hmm, verrry interesting:
www.smh.com.au/.../...daughter-20110908-1jzhl.html

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 08:02 PM

Trevor

FS Hmmmm indeed.  Hope she is not after 1/2 the profits from "The Bolt Report".  Could be slim pickings.

Trevor

September 8. 2011 08:14 PM

Tom of Melbourne

***FOR THE ATTENTION OF JANE AND OTHERS THAT SIMPLY ASSUME***


guttertrash.wordpress.com/.../#comment-75619

Tom of Melbourne

September 8. 2011 08:16 PM

NormanK

Feral Skeleton

@7.28 PM.
Ah well, from the same sausage factory anyway. Smile

NormanK

September 8. 2011 08:22 PM

TalkTurkey

www.adelaidenow.com.au/.../story-e6frea83-1226132301636

The way Abbortt QC (different Abbortt) is defending this is a bloody disgrace and Ms Groot's union is said to be livid. This creepy Abbortt #2 (I've met him 2-3 times, I disliked him) is attacking the credibility of Ms Groot who was vigilant, diligent, and courageous in performing her duty. If she went above and beyond the call of duty,- which is authoritatively denied today, hooray! - she should be praised and rewarded instead of slagged and reviled. Abbortt#2 is trying to say she could be fined up to $20,000 for exceeding her authority!  Fisher is claiming she's depressed, I wonder what this is doing to the hapless Ms Groot!

Dog Allbitey these people are really sum'pin, eh!

Follow this case Comrades. The other side of the coin. Do not remain silent, the trial is on currently. I notice that the woman on 7.30 mentioned that Fisher was charged with shoplifting, it would have taken too much of OUR (don't you forget it Folks!)i]OUR[/i] ABC's time to mention the small other fact that she is charged with assault as well, repeated slammings of door on arm and pushings in chest, real assaults, not the American kind. And this rotten Abbortt QC attacking the honest guard! GrrrNhhhhh!

If you've ever watched Rake - absolutely brilliant imo, funny and clever and perfectly acted - their ad line ran
'The Bar has just been lowered . . .'
Nice pun on Bar see, it's about Cleaver Green who is indeed a delightful rogue barrister, with a sense of justice all his own, well I tell you, Eager Beaver Cleaver would never try that low a defence of a client, to attack a decent worker doing her job ideally, he wouldn't take Fisher's case in the first place I think, if anyone knows him personally could you please ask him what he thinks? Smile I think he's coming to my place tonight, I'll have to go and look. Last week he was hilarious! It could be the funniest cleverest bit of scripting I've ever seen I reckon! Go Aussie film industry!

The difference in media frenzy over Thomson vis a vis Fisher, well words fail me.

TalkTurkey

September 8. 2011 08:24 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

Did you hear Heather Ewart on the 7.30 report, for a change,
I thought she was quite good, at least showing up Abbott's
shortcomings more than usual.

Once the door is opened on personal lives who knows where it will end.

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 8. 2011 08:30 PM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
Yes I did see Heather Ewart, and I agree with you.  Is the tide turning?

I'm packing it in for the night to watch ABC TV.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 08:46 PM

NormanK

Feral Skeleton
Actually, I take that back - I smell a rat.

NormanK

September 8. 2011 08:49 PM

Sue

Lyn what concerned me about Heather Ewart was the summing of the 2 parliamentarians Thompson, Fisher.
thompson "was off the hook"
fisher "charged with shoplifting but widely known to be suffering from depression"
No mention of the other charge assault and as for the depression, has fisher admitted depression? not that i have heard the only person talking about that is robb and he talks about "panic attacks". So i am not convinced 7.30 reported fairly.

Sue

September 8. 2011 08:59 PM

lyn

Hi Talk Turkey

Thankyou for the link to Adelaide Now, Mary Joe Fisher Case,
the media is certainly trying to keep quiet. Very quite about the 40,000 protesters in NSW, screaming ditch the workers robber, we want an election now.   Wonder did Alan Jones go.

Talk Turkey you have posted some brilliant comments today.
Very enjoyable read all of them, thankyou for your valuable input, I love it.

Lyn you are a delight. Thankyou Talk Turkey

A while ago you asked me when were my predictions about Labor's rising fortunes going to kick in. Well Lyn the thing is that the bad ship Coalon ran out of cannonballs nearly a year ago, but the Media hadn't woken up to that at all until recently, because Captain Abbortt has been using up the crew's supply

Some of that supply went west today, eg.  Craig Thomson, Optic Fibre gaffe, pairing, oh yes and the Coalon's invented offshore processing for the Asylum Seekers, how many cannonballs is that in one day.

Cheers to you Talk TurkeySmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 8. 2011 09:10 PM

lyn

Hi Sue

Your right the reporting regarding Fisher is not fair, no the assult is not mentioned.  

This was posted online at 7.19pm, no mention of assult:

Senator on medication, court told,  SMH


Const Brown said she also told him that while she had bank cards with her she could not remember the pin numbers.

The officer said he then asked Senator Fisher if she was taking any medication and she replied "anti-depressants" but that she could not remember their names.

In cross-examination, defence counsel Michael Abbott, QC, suggested to the arresting officer that his client had indicated that she had seen a psychiatrist four times leading up to the incident.

Mr Abbott said Senator Fisher also told the police officer that she had changed her medication recently and that the change had "affected her".

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 8. 2011 09:22 PM

Sue

Here  is the link to the poll in the SMH for Mr Nasty and his decision not to pair Thompson
www.smh.com.au/.../...es-birth-20110908-1jz5l.html

Currently "nasty decision" = 68%

Sue

September 8. 2011 10:09 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
Did you see Catalyst tonight, and the segment about the attacks on the integrity of scientists?

I was appalled at the extent to which scientists, particularly climate scientists, have been threatened, sometimes with death threats.  And where do the threats come from? From people who believe what Lord Monckton says, who embrace the threats against climate scientists he urges. And who do we have here who endorse Monckton?  Shock jocks such as Alan Jones.  And what politicians associate themselves with their views - Tony Abbott, Barnaby Joyce, Sophie Mirabella and Bronwyn Bishop, all of whom stood together, at the anti- carbon rallies where denialists shouted slogans against scientists, and scoffed at the harmful effects of CO2.  They shouted scientifically stupid statements in a way that should alarm rational people.

This is alarming stuff, and the Coalition members who attend these rallies seem to be complicit in promulgating this scientific nonsense.  We should be afraid of this pernicious movement.

Ad astra reply

September 8. 2011 10:19 PM

Feral Skeleton

  Am I the only one to make the logical leap that if Mary Jo Fisher is as inept, highly medicated and cognitively affected by her medication, why then is she being allowed to sit as a Senator making laws for the rest of us to obey?
   Also, I don't know who the judge is in this case but surely he must see: Liberal Senator+ Expensive Barrister+spurious Defence angle=a hill o'beans because, at the end of the day it all comes down to the facts of the matter. That is, did Mary Jo Fisher take goods from the supermarket and not pay for them? Yes. Guilty as charged. Did Mary Jo Fisher harm the Security Guard attempting to aprehend her? Yes. Guilty as charged. Should a case of Depression be cause to get you off charges? No. As then every criminal in Australia, after the precedent was set, would be suffering from Depression.
  As far as the far-fetched line that Mary Jo Fisher had forgotten her PIN numbers for her Credit Cards. Give. Me. A. Break. What was to stop her putting the groceries back and then returning the next day to purchase them, armed with her PIN numbers. Or arranging for the groceries to be delivered COD or ordering over the Internet and using her Credit Card when she had the PIN to hand? Sounds like just another highly-paid Barrister's confected line to me.
  

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 10:24 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

Here is a link to IView for our readers.

Thankyou for your recommendation, and thankgoodness for IView:

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/824920

Cheers

lyn

September 8. 2011 10:25 PM

Feral Skeleton

Sue,
    The photo of Abbott that the smh has chosen to go with the 'no pair for baby's birth' is a cracker. It makes him look sick and evil all in one photo. They must have had it up their sleeve for just such an occasion as this. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 8. 2011 10:37 PM

Trevor

AA: I was pleased to see the report and live in hope that the ABC may treat this issue seriously, rather than political theatrics.  

A few months ago I crafted an email to the ABC, suggesting that 4 Corners would be an ideal platform to provide an investigative report into climate change. I suggested this could include the climate sceptics side balanced by the peer reviewed scientists argument.  If done properly I dont think the sceptics would come out very well so I was trusting they would do a good job.

Unfortunately no response.  While I am sure it is being presumptuous to expect my email to trigger a full blown 4C investigation but I am sure I am not alone.  I still believe that it could be a game changer if they had the guts.  Trouble is I remain suspicious of Mark Scott, he looks over his shoulder.  The coalition would be merciless if they were to win power & they thought the ABC had contradicted their arguments.

I have probably strayed a bit but I did take heart that a show like Catalyst would tackle and expose the issues.  What needs to happen now is to publicise the issues  exposed on Tim Lamberts blog   http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/

Trevor

September 8. 2011 10:39 PM

Jason

One eyed hitman, You said
"What a piece of disgusting garbage you obviously are."
Yes that may be so! but as one of the "200" just think that any female you know that is about to or has given birth at some time in the past may have something I've produced!
www.donateblood.com.au/.../australias-greatest-life-saver-breaks-a-new-record
imagine a piece of the same disgusting garbage you called me in one of your relatives or friends?  

Jason

September 9. 2011 07:37 AM

2353

Even Sunrise was bashing Abbott this morning over giving Thomson a pair for the birth of his child.  I'm with TT and have been for a while, the worm is turning.

One Point Wonder said By the way 2353 if you had the basic skills of a 4 year old you would have grasped that  my argument did not centre on criminality or not but on the clear implication that Thomson has lied.

You just choose to ignore that rather uncomfortable truth

Actually, I assumed that readers of this blog would realise that most politicians are accused of lying on a regular basis and chose not to repeat something as obvious as "today is Friday".  Legally, it doesn't matter if Thomson lied, there are no criminal charges.  If "lying" was an offence in NSW, Barrie O'Farrell would also be in front of a judge rather than Parliment.  

The perfect example of lying in the past 24 hours is Abbott lauding Fibre Optic cable as the ideal solutuion to the Isa's communications problems and then denying the story when it was pointed out the NBN backbone has already done what he "promised" to do.  And while we're talking lying - who can forget the "Core" and "Non-core" promises of John Howard or the "no child will live in poverty" speech of Bob Hawke.

2353

September 9. 2011 07:37 AM

Sue

FS
MJF may be cognitively affected but not when it comes to the money.as reported the other week although the good senator has stood aside from her senate committee work, she unlike CT was still taking the financial rewards.

Sue

September 9. 2011 07:40 AM

2353

Jason,

as the husband of someone who had had a number of "Anti-D" injections (don't ask why) - thanks from the bottom of my heart.

2353

September 9. 2011 07:43 AM

lyn



TODAY"S LINKS

  
Manne up: taking on The Australian, Tim Dunlop, The Drum
does Manne support his contention that The Australian is a campaigning newspaper that displays
"frequent irrationalism", "bullying" and "errors of judgement"?
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2875686.html

A sleazy new low for Abbott,  The Conscience Vote
This is sleazy. Not content with smearing Thomson’s reputation from the safety of Parliament (and perhaps not coincidentally, suggesting thathe’s a poor husband), Abbott has now attacked Thomson just for
consciencevote.wordpress.com/.../

Abbott Disingenuous About Industrial Relations, Alex Schlotzer
It beggars belief that Tony Abbott talks about re-introducing individual contracts, which stripped away things like penalty rates, despite his industrial relations spokesperson ruling out taking away
alexschlotzer.wordpress.com/.../

As the economy improves, Labor’s ownership of it deteriorates, Bernard Kean, Crikey
Then its stimulus packages wouldn’t work. Then they worked too well. Then they weren’t cutting spending enough again. Then they were going to destroy the mining industry. Then the flood levy
Then the carbon price was going to destroy the economy.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Let's Not Tolerate The Haters, Mark Fletcher, New Matilda
feel welcome or even invited to celebrate your rich cultural heritage in Australia, because Cory Bernardi has the right to express whatever half-baked, pig-ignorant, and mendacious idea comes into his overtaxed mind.
newmatilda.com/2011/09/08/lets-not-tolerate-haters

At Home With Julia: The verdict , Dan Barrett, The Power Index
Ultimately, At Home With Julia is as slight and inconsequential as an episode of Mad About You. Sure, it has theadded weight of being a parody (of sorts) of a sitting Prime Minister, but it rarely lets the reality
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../20110908379

TIOD: Australians for bigotry and intolerance, Tory Shepherd, Independent Australia
Frighteningly, this sort of website is reflecting a section of the community – a negative movement, apointless tirade that does nothing but engender hate and fails on all fronts to be constructive or even coherent.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

40,000 workers all walk off job to protest at rally at NSW Parliament House, The Telegraph
"There will be a huge turnout tomorrow, I can assure you."Premier Barry O'Farrell shrugged off the planned industrial action."The fact isthat (today's) day of chaos is just the union movement trying to flex its muscles," he said."It won't be a scratch on the 5800 days
www.dailytelegraph.com.au/.../story-e6freuzi-1226131761724

Thomson may not be excused for child's birth, ABC
His wife is heavily pregnant, but if she goes into labour from next week when Parliament will be debating the Government's carbon tax bills, Mr Abbott will not promise Mr Thomson will be allowed to attend the birth.
www.abc.net.au/.../?site=newcastle

Abbott – denying leave to fathers?, John,  En passant
Abbott might lose a lot of female voters because of his actions. Then again people are so fed up with Labor’s neoliberalism that they might have alreadydecided to hold their noses and vote for the little shit anyway. So it may not matter what he does
http://enpassant.com.au/?p=11043

Tony Abbott, family man, Still Life With Cat
Tony Abbott. The go-to guy for all that is spiteful, punitive, hypocritical and mean of spirit.
stilllifewithcat.blogspot.com/.../...mily-man.html

Malcolm and Lucy Turnbull on planning, politic and media ,  The Fifth Estate
Malcolm Turnbull said that newspapers were failing to provide the quality journalism that would contribute to democracy. There had been a destruction of value in newspapers over the past 20 years as their proprietors failed to find a replacement for the “rivers of gold” that hadhaemorrhaged in the wake of online media.
http://www.thefifthestate.com.au/archives/27606

At home with Julia: where’s the respect, eh?, Jennifer Wilson, No Place for Sheep
Now the general population is overwhelmingly disappointed with Julia, and everybody in the government is telling us how marvelous sheis to work with and how warm and funny she can be at dinner parties.
noplaceforsheep.com/.../

Losing the faith: Can political parties recapture the public imagination?, Trevor Cook, The Conversation
The Liberals, Nationals and Labor are all looking towards some modified form of American-style primaries as a way of attracting wider public engagementthrough their candidate selection processes.
theconversation.edu.au/losing-the-faith-can-political-parties-recapture-the-public-imagination-2456

Black and white and dead all over?   Tim Luckhurst Times Higher Education UK
As the news cycle accelerates, propelled by superb digital technology, the need for expert journalism that can distinguish fact from fiction and privilegeobjectivity over ideology grows too.
www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp

NBN positives at last. But telehealth figures are what's needed., Nick Ross ABC
The Coalition's insistence on a cheaper, second-rate NBN which will snatch many of the current NBN's promised features away from rural areas, maylead to some interesting backlashes down the line
www.abc.net.au/.../3313359.htm

NBN BUZZ: Wireless reawakening, Technology Spectator
NBN supporters say Telstra and Optus have been given billions for their fixed infrastructure on the basis that their customers will move to NBN Co's fixed infrastructure. It would be unfair to allow the telcos to take the cash and then convince their customers that NBN's fibre is rubbish or excessive,
technologyspectator.com.au/.../nbn-buzz-wireless-reawakening


Liberal MP Peter Slipper faces parliamentary probe initiated by his Fisher constituents , Steve Lewis, Courier Mail
In a test for Opposition leader Tony Abbott, Liberal MP Alex Somlyay, will present the petition to Parliament next week. It will then be considered by the House of Representatives Petitions Committee which has the power to refer such matters to the relevant Minister for further action.
www.couriermail.com.au/.../story-e6freoof-122613259138

lyn

September 9. 2011 08:01 AM

Sue

AS far as I have read the debate on the Carbon tax will occur in the next 2 weeks, the actual vote is not scheduled until October or November. Isn't the birth anticipated sooner than the vote.  So Abbott by announcing the "no pair" for Thompson on the day the police decided there was no case,displayed to the electorate his "character".
So FS, the photo at SMH, may be the inner self struggling to get out.

Sue

September 9. 2011 08:02 AM

2353

Lyn,

The link must have changed for the Courier Mail article.

www.couriermail.com.au/.../story-e6freoof-1226132591380 got me to the words.

2353

September 9. 2011 08:28 AM

Feral Skeleton

  So, 'The Convoy of No Consequence' and the Anti-Carbon Tax Rallies, with their miniscule turnouts are OK as far as the Coalition is concerned, but a rally of 40,000 Police, Firefighters, Teachers, Nurses and other assorted Public Servants, is "the Unions flexing their muscles" according to Barry O'Farrell, and invalid and inconsequential as a result?

   What 'duplicitous hypocrites' the Liberal and National parties and their representatives in parliaments around the country are.

   Not to mention mean and nasty for playing political hardball when it comes to a pairing arrangement for the birth of a baby, even if it is Craig Thomson's baby. All this from the parties who supposedly revere 'Family Values'.

Feral Skeleton

September 9. 2011 08:30 AM

lyn

Hi 2353

Don't know but it's working ok for me, there is a large blank space at the top of the story, like there is a photo or something missing, so just scroll down for the story:

Liberal MP Peter Slipper faces parliamentary probe initiated by his Fisher constituents

www.couriermail.com.au/.../story-e6freoof-1226132591380

Cheers to you SmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 9. 2011 08:33 AM

Feral Skeleton

  This is the sort of thing we really should be worried about our politicians getting involed in:

   www.smh.com.au/.../...iticians-20110908-1jzxr.html

   To which I might add, which particular communities of concern is Senator Bernardi referring to? They wouldn't be communities that are fair of skin in the countries he visted by any chance?

Feral Skeleton

September 9. 2011 08:36 AM

Ad astra reply

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra reply

September 9. 2011 08:45 AM

Sue

Lyn the link to the "sleazy new low " was most interesting. It highlighted that abbott got a pair to go to  the rally where he found his true friends, and that during rudd's vote for an ETS he was asleep, assisted sleep at that.
As all articles point out abbott uses the wife and kids to promote himself as the family guy, he just isn't at home all that often.
I am glad this issue made Sunrise it will interesting to see if channel 9 will respond to keep up with its rival.

Sue

September 9. 2011 08:51 AM

nasking

Something that disturbed me this morning was the possible attempt, yet again, of a Murdoch empire editor to manufacture perception from an American-centric point of view.

This fella from the Herald Sun made the comment on ABC 24 somethin' along the lines of: "9/11 is certainly the biggest event in our lifetime".

Ignorin' the fact that for those who experienced the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami (killing over 230,000 people)...it probably wasn't...

nor possibly for those in the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami (close to 16,000 deaths)...

nor those victims of the 1994 The Rwandan Genocide (estimated 800,000 people killed)

nor those involved in the Battles for Fallujah...part of Bush's fiasco...

nor for those who survived &/or witnessed The Sabra and Shatila massacre (anywhere from 700–800 to 3,500 killed)  

nor the 1998 United States embassy bombings...

nor the victims of the 2010 Pakistani floods (almost 2,000 dead...affected about 20 million people, mostly by destruction of property, livelihood and infrastructure -wikipedia)...

and is 9/11 the "biggest event" for those who lostr family & friends in Toowoomba & the Lockyer Valley?

the list goes on & on...

Even for Americans:

Hurricane Katrina of 2005 (At least 1,836 people died in the actual hurricane and in the subsequent floods, making it the deadliest U.S. hurricane since the 1928 Okeechobee hurricane; total property damage was estimated at $81 billion)- Wikipedia

Perhaps some like to push this view related to 9/11 because it suits their master's agenda?...and those of the Neo-CONs...perhaps they really feel that way...their focus New York-centric.

It was indeed a terrible tragedy...and I feel deeply for all those who have lost friends & family...

but I do believe those who work in our globalised media should remember just that.

N'




nasking

September 9. 2011 09:03 AM

Feral Skeleton

lyn,
    The link to the Steve Lewis story isn't working. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 9. 2011 09:09 AM

lyn



MISSING LINKS


Cory Bernardi and Geert Wilders, Barry Everingham, The Independent
The Opposition Leader’s front bench is littered with right wing reactionaries and racists.Kevin Andrews, of Dr Haneef fame, and Phil Ruddock, who was the architect of Howard’s cruel and inhumane solution to asylum seekers, are just two.The foul mouthed Sophie Mirabella, who has screamed “not sorry!” to Aboriginals in her electorate, is another.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

Senator used trip to see controversial politicians , Phillip Cory, SMH
Senator Bernardi's travel report, obtained by the Herald, confirms that as well as meeting the Islamophobic Dutch MP Geert Wilders he also met Lord Pearson of Rannoch, who tried unsuccessfully in 2009 to have Mr Wilders visit London and show an anti-Muslim video to the House of Lords. Mr Wilders was denied entry to Britain.
www.smh.com.au/.../...iticians-20110908-1jzxr.html

Max Brenner and Australia's fascists,  Jeff Sparrow, The Drum
over the last days, we've learned that Cory Bernardi has invited to Australia Geert Wilders, a man whom Bernardi calls "charming, charismatic and politically astute". Now, the anti-Max Brenner
.http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2877306.html

Friday on my mind: what was that edition, Min, Café Whispers
C“absolute crap”, and if you’re homeless “it’s your choice”… But then on the other hand if you happen to be a virgin then “it’s a gift”..or maybe it was the other way around, that homelessness is “a gift” and virginity is “crap
cafewhispers.wordpress.com/.../

lyn

September 9. 2011 09:15 AM

lyn

Feral

The link is working ok for me, but here it is again, from previous comments:-

September 9. 2011 08:02 AM
Lyn,

The link must have changed for the Courier Mail article.

www.couriermail.com.au/.../story-e6freoof-1226132591380 got me to the words.
2353


September 9. 2011 08:30 AM
Hi 2353

Don't know but it's working ok for me, there is a large blank space at the top of the story, like there is a photo or something missing, so just scroll down for the story:

Liberal MP Peter Slipper faces parliamentary probe initiated by his Fisher constituents

www.couriermail.com.au/.../story-e6freoof-1226132591380

Cheers to you
lyn



CheersSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 9. 2011 09:45 AM

2353

Nas,

9/11 links to the FUD campaign started by Bush & Howard.  While a level of security is probably necessary - a lot of the overt security feeds the insecurity of people travelling which promotes the agenda of a lot of the Conservative political parties around the world.  The "security" agencies have been building empires for a decade and are now self-fulfilling; examples include full body scanning at airports in the US and here.  In Europe, they are actually reducing overt security (and probably ramping up covert security)

Look at Abbott, Palin and so on.  They preach FUD - reinforing the message they are the only ones that can "save" you.

No I'm not bitter and twisted - I just had time to reflect on this in a number of US, Canadian and Australian airports earlier this year.

2353

September 9. 2011 09:54 AM

Feral Skeleton

lyn,
    Thank you for all your efforts on our behalf. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 9. 2011 10:15 AM

Min

Thank you Lyn.  Did you like that line. Smile

Min

September 9. 2011 10:21 AM

2353

Lyn,

Thanks for the work (again).

I worked out what the problem was - the original link was missing a "0" at the end.

As always your daily work is really appreciated.

2353

September 9. 2011 10:23 AM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
I’ve added your ‘Missing Links’ to your special page.  What a great collection you have given us for the weekend.

Tim Dunlop’s piece, aptly titled: Manne up: taking on The Australian http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2875686.html as he comments on Robert Manne’s Quarterly Essay: Bad News, is required reading.  For ages TPS has maintained that The Australian is at war with the Gillard Government; Manne’s essay documents fastidiously how this is so, and Tim Dunlop expands on Manne’s assertions.

Manne asserts:

”The Australian is a remorseless campaigning paper... In these campaigns its assigned journalists appear to begin with their editorially determined conclusion and then to seek out evidence to support it.

“The Australian is... the only newspaper that is read by virtually all members of the group of insiders I call the political class, a group that includes politicians, leading public servants, business people and the most politically engaged citizens. Even those members of the political class who loathe the paper understand that they cannot afford to ignore it.

“The Australian employs many of the best journalists in the country... It only requires a different editor-in-chief and owner for it to become a truly outstanding newspaper.”


Dunlop concludes:

The bullying, exclusions, biases and pettiness that Manne ably illustrates occurring under Chris Mitchell, occur in other forms and in other venues throughout Australia's public sphere. Political debate and cultural discussion is still proscribed by an elite strata, the very one that is the audience for The Australian.
  
“So maybe the answer is right under our noses. Maybe they read The Australian because they like it! Maybe they share its values and its ideology!
  
“The idea that all The Oz needs to do to "become a truly outstanding newspaper" is to get rid of Chris Mitchell and Rupert Murdoch, or that the answer lies in "courageous external and internal criticism", is to ignore the logic of the systemic problems that Manne himself has itemised.  And it is to fail to realise that those problems exist elsewhere too.
  
“The issue, then, is less that it's a bad newspaper than that many of the most important people in the country continue to take it seriously. If we really don't like what The Australian does, that's what should worry us.”


The whole piece is well worth a read.

Ad astra reply

September 9. 2011 10:26 AM

lyn

Hi Min

Your wonderful, I loved it, adoration plus.

Your are doing a fabulous job Min.  Cafe Whispers is a special
little blog.  I love your topics, us girls need to stick together.

Big cheers for Jane and Catching up as well. Girls are us.

Could it be that Tony Abbott’s “surging wave of discontent” is nothing more than “absolute crap”, and if you’re homeless “it’s your choice”… But then on the other hand if you happen to be a virgin then “it’s a gift”..or maybe it was the other way around, that homelessness is “a gift” and virginity is “crap”. cafewhispers.wordpress.com/.../

CheersSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 9. 2011 10:32 AM

lyn

Hi 2353

Your clever working that out missing a "0" at the end

Thankyou very much for letting me know, once I post the links, I don't go back checking again, so if you guys don't tell me, I have no way of knowing,

Thankyou for your work too 2353, I always enjoy your ever informative posts.

CheerSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 9. 2011 11:17 AM

Feral Skeleton

Ad Astra,
          The points Tim Dunlop made about Manne himself are the most salient in that piece today I think. The fact that he points out that, as an integral part of the political establishment, or elite, he seems not to want to rock the boat too much. Maybe it's a case of Robert Manne making the 'political' decision that he does not want to bite the hand that feeds him in the media, for whatever reason, but, I posit, maybe it's because Manne would see his own power and influence diminish if he was cut loose from being able to have opinion pieces of his published in those very journals of public record that he is sledging, in an oh so polite and mannered way, it seems. By not addressing the logical inconsistencies in his essay, such as saying silly things like, if only The Australian were to get rid of Murdoch and Mitchell, how much better it would be, when what it would not be anymore is The Australian, it would be something else, then I see someone skirting around the guts of the problem indelicately. That problem is that those people that he says The Australian would be better without, he knows in his heart of hearts The Australian will not be without anytime soon, and so, as a result, he does not have to state what the best solution would be. Arguing for these men, and others such as John Hartigan, plus the biased journalists who push out the Murdoch line, to pull up their journalistic socks and pick up their game, and, "Not write absolute crap."

Feral Skeleton

September 9. 2011 11:45 AM

Ad astra reply

FS
That is an interesting comment.   So you think Manne is looking after himself in the way he ‘politely’ chides The Australian.  It didn’t seem so polite to me, but I bow to your better judgement.  Anyway, I’ll get Manne’s Quarterly Essay and read it when I’m in Melbourne over the next two weeks.  So far I’ve read only excerpts and watched a half hour video interview with Manne.

Ad astra reply

September 9. 2011 11:48 AM

Feral Skeleton

Talk Turkey & Nas,
                  I think you might be interested in this article from Esquire(I only read it for the articles Smile ), about the rise through the political ranks of Evangelical Christian politicians(and, yes, it has overtones which can be applied to the rise of our own Conservative Christian political class):

   www.esquire.com/.../rick-perry-death-penalty-investigation-6389307

Feral Skeleton

September 9. 2011 11:54 AM

lyn

Hi Ad

More information for our readers:

AboutTheHouseAbout the House

The House of Reps will begin sitting at 12pm next Tuesday instead of the usual 2pm. (Will also sit Monday)

CheersSmile:SmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 9. 2011 11:57 AM

Feral Skeleton

Ad,
   I don't know about my judgement being better than yours, in fact I know it isn't Smile, however, I was merely seeking to reflect Tim Dunlop's own quizzical stance about the logical inconsistencies of Manne's stance, Manne's position within the political cognescenti, and then, trying to tease out a reason for him taking such a stance as he has.

Feral Skeleton

September 9. 2011 12:23 PM

Patricia WA

'N re the tenth anniversary of 9/11.   I agree.  I wonder too if amid all the reminiscing, reverence and respect for the emergency workers and victims of the Twin Towers bombing there has been any thought given to the many more who have died in U.S. air raids and ground attacks overseas?

If so, and I've missed seeing references to it in the media I'm sorry. Even at the time of that awful event I hoped that Americans would do some soul searching about their arms industry and the damage it inflicts throughout the world.

It's not just the soldiers and civilians killed by US weaponry it's the terror inspired in families of men, women and children by ground attacks and air raids.  It's happening today as it has been happening every day since September 11, 2001.   Surely the events of that day must have given them cause to question,  not their own vulnerability to attack, but the vulnerability of countless others with less capacity for self defence.  

Patricia WA

September 9. 2011 12:24 PM

nasking

The "security" agencies have been building empires for a decade and are now self-fulfilling; examples include full body scanning at airports in the US and here.  In Europe, they are actually reducing overt security (and probably ramping up covert security)
Look at Abbott, Palin and so on.  They preach FUD - reinforing the message they are the only ones that can "save" you.


2353,
Indeed. Good points.

And if one reflects on those natural disasters I mentioned above...and the consequences of present & predicted future problems related to global warming...or even natural events that occur outside of that/those problematic/scientific claims, it's obvious that there is only goin' to be so much money to go around...

when you take into account attempts to disaster proof by way of flood barriers, adapting energy producing & delivery networks (think Japan), funding disaster prediction research & equipment including tsunami alert systems...train & utilise first responders, emergency crews...using navy, airforce & national guard for rescue & other humanitarian purposes...vaccines for virus breakouts...it's a lengthy & expensive list...

ensuring that focusing too intensely on the needs related to a too oft corporate boondoggle "war on terror" will leave us wanting in so many other areas, including our response to natural disasters & global warming pressures.

Add the demands of healthcare including assisting w/ disabilities including mental health...and an ageing population as a significant percentage of 7 billion people worldwide & growing...childcare, education & training, the need for safe & useful infrastructure...including public transport...providing other services...and incentives to purchase homes...stimulate businesses & industries...

it becomes pretty obvious that we have to prioritise...

the "war on terror" cannot be permitted to continue as a gaping maw swallowing untold public moneys in order to deal w/ a generally abstract & somewhat unsolveable problem...approaches that have too often increased recruitment of militants off the back of well-funded aggressivity, torture and opportunistic private company profiteering in the execution of this war...and in an ad hoc attempt to secure homelands.

Certainly the security has worked in some cases...in only makes sense to have a defense structure that includes the efficient gathering, passing on & use of intelligence that is of value to the public as a whole and provides a certain amount of security w/out intervening in individual's lives/privacy & stomping on their rights based on agreed practices by way of an independent judiciary, a robust political system and free press (free of mogul meddling) and various other participants in a functioning particpatory democracy.

The unfortunate thing is we have far too many self-interested lobby groups these days who have too much influence on the judiciary & political system & the fourth estate...who have placed the "war on terror" above all other priorities...

and yet seem unwilling in many instances to contribute more, sacrifice more in order to pay for it...and fund effectively the other essential community needs I mentioned previously... the resistance to any kind of tax increases...including allowing the Bush "tax cuts for the rich" to expire....

or the case of Australia, preventing the passing of an effective mineral resources tax to provide for a more balanced economy, diversified job's sector & shore up our soveriegn funds by way of increased superannuation.

The resistance to the carbon price is yet another example.

Like I said, there is only so much money to go around...exacerbated by upper middle class welfare demands...and a "flood up" approach wherein certain families...and wealthy individuals & corporations benefit from their political & media-based influence...and too oft fail to use their benefits for the good of the overall communities...and the countries they reside & work in.

It's time this rotten system changed.
For the benefit of the many...rather than just the few.

N'

nasking

September 9. 2011 12:40 PM

NormanK

Mr Consistency (Sir Liealot the Bold) is on his high horse again (resplendent in his white hat - that's the good guys, isn't it?), this time defending public servants.

PM should pull Brown into line: Abbott
AAP

OPPOSITION Leader Tony Abbott says Prime Minister Julia Gillard should rebuke Australian Greens leader Bob Brown for the senator's criticism of immigration officials.

**************************************************

The Greens leader said on Thursday the officials were "turkeys" and "xenophobic", having advised that asylum seekers processed in the community could cause social division.
**************************************************
"Julia Gillard should make it absolutely crystal clear to her co-prime minister the public service is to be treated with respect."


www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-e6frf7jx-1226133001195

This is the bloke who reckons Treasury is partisan and can't be trusted. Reckons he'll axe the Department of Climate Change who incidentally gave an unfavourable evaluation of his Direct Action Plan.

Leaving aside the 'co-prime minister' jibe, I can't tell you how much I regret inadvertently using the expression 'crystal clear' yesterday. It seems it's flavour of the week for both Abbott and Gillard. Perhaps I got the e-mail and just don't remember reading it. I'm a bit skeptical about these directives anyway - I was told 'thundered' was the new 'said' a couple of weeks ago and then the whole thing fizzled.
Let me make it crystal clear, I am up-to-date with what's 'in' when it comes to public discourse.

Bugger. Embarassed

NormanK

September 9. 2011 12:46 PM

Min

Thank you Lyn Smile  And thank you Nas'..an excellent and well researched read as always.  

Min

September 9. 2011 01:50 PM

Feral Skeleton

Here's another analysis of the Manne Monthly Essay:

   newmatilda.com/2011/09/09/how-manne-would-run-oz

Feral Skeleton

September 9. 2011 01:50 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

Look at this of course we knew Abbott would change his mind in 24 hours, so now he will pair Craig Thomson.

But look at Michelle Grattans 2004 article, it has been posted on Twitter:

latikambourkeLatika Bourke


Oppn Leader Tony Abbott backs down and offers Labor MP Craig Thomson a pair should he need to attend the birth of his child.

2 hours ago

gordongrahamGordon Graham

Tony Abbott should give a complete explanation to the parliament about this incident http://bit.ly/8ghcR3 #auspol

Abbott: I was charged with indecent assault, Michelle Grattan,
July 18, 2004
The Sun-Herald
A 27-year-old court case in which Health Minister Tony Abbott was charged with indecent assault is about to be revived.

The case involved an allegation that Mr Abbott, then a 20-year-old student leader in the heady days of campus politics, groped a woman activist on stage before an audience of 200.

In an exclusive interview with The Sun-Herald, Mr Abbott said the groping allegation was "a long time ago - and it was a completely fictional incident".

He added: "It's part of the Abbott story - it is not part of the Abbott present."

www.smh.com.au/.../1089694611809.html



Cheers:SmileSmileSmileSmile  ReCaptcha loves to test me, putting its characters upside down, that's a bit much don't you think, Tricky recaptcha

lyn

September 9. 2011 01:56 PM

Feral Skeleton

NormanK,
        Tony Abbott makes it up as he goes along. Can you imagine the degree of consistency he would exhibit as PM? If so much as one poll went against him it would be Panic Stations and a complete turnaround on whatever it was that made the electorate get antsy. But it would all be intoned with that perfectly straight face of his, in his perfectly-ironed, Whiter than White shirt. Always one for the optics as opposed to the substance. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 9. 2011 01:58 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

This is an adverse point of view about Manne's Quartely essay,
but like you I am looking forward  to buying and have a nice read.

I think Adam Bereton more or less agrees with Feral's perception of Manne's Essay:


As one commenter said :
The last paragraph sums it up. Don’t really care who “Manne” is and what he or anybody else believes he stands for.
Breaking up the News Limited monopoly is the best way to limit the malicious effects of these papers.”
The hard part remains, HOW to do it
!

How Manne Would Run The Oz, Adam Brereton, New Matilda

expect these journos to change and censorious to regulate their content, Manne does come to one good conclusion: breaking up the News Limited monopoly is the
best way to limit the malicious effects of a paper that no longer cares. News Limited’s 70 per cent newspaper ownership in this country is too much.

newmatilda.com/2011/09/09/how-manne-would-run-oz


Cheers SmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 9. 2011 02:09 PM

nasking

Cheers Min...I'm pleased jane is also begun posting. You have all added to the informative & vital alternative media & media filtering networks of this country. You should be proud of yerselves.

It's not just the soldiers and civilians killed by US weaponry it's the terror inspired in families of men, women and children by ground attacks and air raids.  It's happening today as it has been happening every day since September 11, 2001.

Patricia,
I agree that this tenth anniversary should be about more than the unfortunate victims of that tragedy...considering how said tragic event motivated a train of events that has led to many forseen & unforseen consequences for the world...

and by overreacting, overreaching in their initial responses...and some subsequent invasions of both sovereign territories & privacy...not to mention, raiding the public purse...

the American empire w/ its sycophantic allies has created both social & economic instability...

taught insurgents everywhere how to fightback in deadlier ways...

and left casualties strewn across the planet...motivating various forms of protest & resistance...

and finally, undermined the wee bit of respect that was afforded it as an already perceived "troubling" nation on the basis of earlier interventions...including a disatrous campaign in Vietnam, extending to Laos & Cambodia.

N'

nasking

September 9. 2011 02:15 PM

NormanK

This article provides a bit of background on Immigration Department Secretary Andrew Metcalfe's briefing of journalists prior to briefing Abbott on Wednesday.
Chinese whispers in our over-heated media.

What Metcalfe said … or is understood to have said
by Bernard Keane

Problem was, Metcalfe never said what he is reported to have said. But what he did say wasn’t totally divorced from the reports. His comments might have been grossly simplified, almost to the point of distortion, but he wasn’t misquoted or outright misrepresented.

www.crikey.com.au/.../


A bit of a cheer-up from a friendly Santa Claus character (see photo).

When it comes to precedents and parallels, Gillard stands alone
by Norman (he can't be all bad) Abjorensen

So this brings us to Julia Gillard. Whom does she resemble most? Well, no-one really. Should she resign because of low poll numbers? Why?
Opinion polls are media stories and instruments of public manipulation, nothing more. They serve to remind people what to think about. For example, how many people really weigh up the prime ministerial potential of Tony Abbott in comparison with the incumbent before they are asked? And on what basis.

*************************************************

I have met over the years all the prime ministers of the past 60 years (and even one before then, Frank Forde) and sunny personalities combined with a deep human decency are rare qualities among that ilk; the last was, in my opinion, the hapless Harold Holt.

*************************************************

Julia Gillard has those qualities, but one can only hope that is all she shares with Harold Holt. She is not perfect, but there is a distinct feeling that what you see is what you get.

*************************************************

Never before has Australian politics been as personally vitriolic as it is now; never before has a prime minister been so personally vilified as Ms Gillard.


http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2877058.html

NormanK

September 9. 2011 02:18 PM

nasking

Make that: "...I'm pleased jane has also begun posting"

Sigh.

Feral,
thnx for the Esquire link. I doubt the bulk of the American people who vote for Perry will worry about his "executioner" habits. It would take one helluva movie, TV, YouTube & book campaign to convince the majority he killed an innocent man & therefore is a disgusting human being unworthy of the presidency.

The attacks on "decider" & "executioner" & "drug taking national service AWOL" Bush didn't work.

However the "social security is a ponzi scheme" focus just might. But expect the Repugs to start incrementally chipping away at the value of social security...the way the Coalition here have tried to bring IR legislation changes back into favour by attacking the Fair Work Act.

The Murdoch empire & certain think tank commentators are experts at this sh*t.

N'

nasking

September 9. 2011 02:26 PM

NormanK

Feral Skeleton

I have been trying (for ages and ages) to hunt down a source for one of Howard's classics with regard to consistency and the populist nature of it. During his last term (as I recall it) he announced a new potentially controversial measure one day; went on talk-back radio the next morning and copped an absolute pasting from callers and by the end of the day he had abandoned the measure.
That is how I imagine Abbott implementing policy.

That would be great in an international context, wouldn't it?
"Yep, yep, Australia's got your back!
Ooh, wait, polling doesn't look good.
Hello? Sorry, Australia's got a headache at the moment and can't come out and play.
Yeah, yeah I know. Sorry mate I know I'm a bit of a weathervane on this but ............... you know .......... stuff happens."

NormanK

September 9. 2011 02:52 PM

nasking

Norman,
appreciate the link...but the quote you use neglects to point out the following:

These people in effect have to remain here, having “self-selected” to come to Australia despite their official rejection by us. Metcalfe argued that a rise in the number of such unsuccessful-but-unreturnable applicants creates tensions within the relevant community within Australia, due to the perception that they are taking the places of genuine asylum seekers and their families.

This issue appears to have prompted some subsequent press coverage about “queue jumpers”, with Tony Jones asking John Howard on Lateline on Wednesday night about “Labor government ministers [sic] referring effectively to asylum seekers as queue-jumpers”. But that wasn’t the issue that got traction.

Metcalfe’s other point, Crikey understands, was that a failure to preserve the perception of control in relation to asylum seekers has the potential to undermine community perceptions of and support for the entire immigration program, and in doing so noted that at the height of 2010, up to 600 asylum seekers were arriving by boat a month. If that is what Metcalfe said, it was an unexceptionable observation — the 2010 election campaign, with Labor and the Coalition competing to reject a “big Australia”, was a perfect demonstration of how community misperceptions that control of our borders had been lost undermined support for a strong immigration program. And his numbers are entirely accurate.

What’s agreed by several sources is that Metcalfe was then asked if the social impacts to which he was referring would be like those in Europe, to which he assented. This appears to be the one mistake Metcalfe made, in making otherwise straightforward observations, although how carefully he nuanced his assent to the journalist’s question isn’t clear.


In the context of a number of instances wherein the Murdoch empire, Abbott's coalition & other usual suspects have attempted to stir up xenophobia & pit communities against one another, I find some of the comments & confirmations made, allegedly, by Metcalfe worrying...and quite suss.

I do feel there is an orchestrated campaign goin' on here, in the runup to the 9/11 anniversary, to manufacture fear and manipulate public perception in order to fulfil an agenda that benefits those who hope to grasp power...and a future election, possibly by  way of DD, off the back of One Nation style approaches...and by creating the sense of an internal threat to Australian security...in turn, using refugees as political scapegoats.

By keeping the Metcalf message & relationship w/ political & media interpretations unclear...in question...the perpetrators have created another "fog" situation...not unlike the incidents & command structures lost in the "fog of war".

Convenient...and disturbing.

N'  

  

nasking

September 9. 2011 02:56 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
I have just posted another clever piece of satire by Acerbic Conehead: Dastardly Deeds in Daigon Alley: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...Diagon-Alley.aspx

I have posted it a little earlier on Friday than usual as I'm about to get on the road to Melbourne and won't be back at my computer until late this evening.

On Sunday evening I'll be posting a piece by Hillbilly Skeleton, who, to my delight, has resumed writing for TPS.

Ad astra reply

September 9. 2011 03:00 PM

Trevor

NormanK

That could be why he is so popular with the shock Jocks.  They could run the country by proxy.  Anything they dont like, just whip up a few angry talkbackers and the policy would be toast.

Of course they would tell you that is real democracy.  

Trevor

September 9. 2011 03:12 PM

NormanK

Trevor

I do so much wish that I could find a link to the Howard story. I was ultra-busy at the time and I only remember it because it scared the pants off me. Is this how the nation is to be run? By sheer weight of numbers calling a Sydney radio station? I doubt that it was a big policy initiative but never-the-less it set a poor precedent.

NormanK

September 9. 2011 03:13 PM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
Thanks for your additional links - always interesting - and for your comments about the Manne essay.

I'm closing down here now to get on the road to Melbourne and won't be back until this evening.

Have a relaxing weekend.

Ad astra reply

September 9. 2011 04:28 PM

Jason

Normank,
       Was the story when he announced the 6 monthly indexing of petrol would stop?

Jason

September 9. 2011 04:48 PM

NormanK

Jason
All suggestions are welcome. As I say I was working 70-80 hours a week, 7 days so I can't remember the subject. I'll follow that up though. Thanks. Smile

NormanK

September 9. 2011 05:01 PM

jane

As I said before if being full of shit was a crime you'd be serving Life.

I assume you are penning this dross from the prison library, then.

FS @10.19pm, 8/9, what would have stopped her just leaving the groceries and getting sympathy because she'd forgotten her pin numbers. God knows that would have to happen a million times a day.

Nasking @12.24pm, couldn't agree more.

NormanK @12.40pm, and isn't this the same Sir Liealot the Gutless whose plan is to axe 12,000 public servants if he gets his paws on government.




jane

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