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Mr Abbott and the Five Concerned Liberals

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Monday, 19 September 2011 12:22 by Ad astra
The Leader of the Opposition graciously granted an audience to some life-long Liberal voters: three gentlemen and two ladies. They asked to see him because they felt concerned about some of his policies and needed clarification; they also wanted reassurance about some of his actions and a better understanding of his strategy for the next election.

This is what they said to each other on a recent cold, but sunny Canberra day:

Concerned Liberal 1: We’d like to thank you Mr Abbott for making your valuable time available to us. You know, we’ve always voted Liberal and were great fans of Mr Howard; in fact we wish he were still PM. We know you were close to him, and so I imagine you feel the same. We know too how much he depended on you when he needed to rough up a Labor shadow minister – you were very good at savaging anyone who disagreed with Mr Howard. And we see you haven’t lost any of your bite since you took over as Leader.

We hope that there’ll soon be an election to get rid of that awful Julia Gillard and her incompetent bunch of ministers. Really, they can’t get anything right. There are a lot of Liberal voters in our electorates that want to arm themselves, so that whenever the election is held, they will have all the answers. They intend to organize meetings to urge a vote for the Coalition.

Mr Abbott: It’s very good you’re organizing some meetings, but have you ever thought of a rally? We’ve had some beauties with lots of placards and angry people; you know – genuine honest-to-God Aussies – protesting against Ju-liar - what a great label Jonesy thought up.

Concerned Liberal 2: Well, we really had in mind something less rowdy; you know most of us come from electorates in the eastern suburbs of Sydney – I’m from Mr Turnbull’s – and we feel something dignified would be more suitable.

Mr Abbott: OK… but remember rallies get on the TV. The journos are hungry for that sort of news – lots of colour, movement, and hopping mad voters baying for blood – terrific on the 6 o’clock news.

Concerned Liberal 3: I realize that rallies give you a great boost, and you find them exhilarating, but we feel the folks in our electorates would prefer a quieter discussion that will help them understand your policies better. You know they’re a thoughtful lot, not easily lead by the nose.

Mr Abbott: OK, if you want a debate, that’s your choice, but I prefer not to get into too much detail. It just confuses people. I like simple slogans like the ones we used last time – you remember them? Just three words that everyone learnt by heart.

Concerned Liberal 1: I know that’s your preference Mr Abbott, but our folk ask questions and don’t find slogans helpful in answering them. We can’t front them with just a few short slogans. They ask questions that we can’t answer; that’s why we wanted to see you to get the good oil, so to speak.

Mr Abbott: OK, have it your way, but you know I’m not a policy wonk, so I might not have all the answers at my fingertips. Shoot!

Concerned Liberal 1: As the carbon tax debate has started in Parliament, can we start there? There seems to be a lot of confusion about your Direct Action Plan.

Mr Abbott: I don’t know what’s confusing; it’s all laid out, fully costed - $3.2 billion over the forward estimates, and capped!

Concerned Liberal 2: Yes, we heard you saying that, but can we go back to the basics. As we understand it, you have the same mitigation target as Labor – 5% by 2020 – but you plan to reach it by planting lots of trees and burying carbon in the soil. We know trees are carbon sinks so that’s a good move, but we wondered how you plan to plant enough of them to do the job.

According to Tony Windsor it would require something like 28 million hectares of trees to be planted to soak up the five per cent that you have as a target, and we have only 26 million hectares of food-producing arable land.

Mr Abbott: But, but, but…

Concerned Liberal 2: May I finish please. According to the Australia Institute, to reach your 5% target it would be necessary to reduce emissions by 160 million tonnes of CO2 by 2020, which would require planting trees over an area of 265,600 square kilometres, which is more than the size of Victoria if that was your only action, but even the 15 million tonnes reduction you plan from planting trees would require an area of 25,000 square kilometres and over 9,000 gigalitres of water every year, two and a half times the amount of water proposed to be bought back by the Murray Darling Basin Plan. How would you achieve that?

Mr Abbott: Well you seem to be a full bottle. As I said, I’m not a policy wonk; I’m sure Greg Hunt can answer your questions. It’s all been worked out. And by the way, don’t believe everything Tony Windsor says – remember he’s a renegade.

Concerned Liberal 2: Does that mean you can’t explain how you will find enough suitable land to plant the trees and enough water to grow them?

Mr Abbott: Well, well, I can’t tell you that off the top of my head, but it’s all been worked out. You’ll have to speak with Greg.

Concerned Liberal 3: We had hoped you would be able to fill us in, but can you tell us who will plant the trees – it’s an awful lot of trees, and where will you find land to plant them that’s not in use for growing food?

Mr Abbott: My Green Army will do that – 15,000 workers.

Concerned Liberal 3: The Green Army sounds impressive, but where will you get the 15,000? We seem to have a shortage of workers at present and with unemployment around 5% won’t it be difficult to find enough to plant those millions of trees?

Mr Abbott: We’ll call for volunteers – you know youngsters that want to get out into the wide-open spaces.

Concerned Liberal 2: But if you can’t get them… And how much will they cost? And how do you disperse them around the country, and house and feed them?

Mr Abbott: Don’t you worry about that – just tell your people it’s all been worked out; it’s all under control. It will work.

Concerned Liberal 4: OK Mr Abbott, we’ll just have to take your word for it. But could you tell us about this soil carbon – we hear that there will need to be lots of processing plants built to produce the char for plowing into the soil. We’ve been told it’s a good idea, but we wondered how many farmers might take it up and how char would be produced in sufficient quantities.

Mr Abbott: Now you’re getting a bit technical; I’m not a tech-head you know. You’d better ask Greg. Anyway tell your people it’s all been worked out. Our full Direct Action Plan will be out well before the election, like all our other policies.

Concerned Liberal 4: We have read it already Mr Abbott, but our people still have a lot of queries; we still don’t understand how you are going to make it work.

Concerned Liberal 2: If I could ask another question Mr Abbott: you say that the cost is $3.2 billion over four years, but my member, Mr Turnbull, wrote on his blog that meeting your 80 per cent cut by 2050 with the Direct Action Plan would place an annual cost of $18 billion on the budget. That’s a lot of money.

Mr Abbott: Well of course Mr Turnbull has his own ideas – after all he wanted to go along with Rudd’s CPRS – so I wouldn’t worry too much about that.

Concerned Liberal 2: But he’s my member, and I do go along with his ideas. He’s pretty smart - what if he’s right – won’t you be up for a lot of money? He seems to think your Direct Action Plan was designed so it could easily be abandoned. We know you’ve got your doubts about climate change – it being absolute crap as you said – so is he right?

Mr Abbott: Look, I’m not going to jeopardize industry just to placate those scaremongers who want something done about climate change. Why should we lead the world when we cause so little pollution?

Concerned Liberal 5: But Mr Abbott we are the highest polluters per person in the world – don’t you think we should pull our weight and behave like a good global citizen?

Mr Abbott: Look, we can’t make much difference so I’m not going to upset business and industry by pushing too hard. They don’t want a carbon tax, and as I said in Parliament last week, for Julia Gillard the carbon tax is ‘the longest political suicide note in Australian history’. I’m not going to commit suicide; in fact the carbon tax will win me the next election.

Concerned Liberal 5: But industry and commerce are asking for certainty and although they would prefer not to pay tax, they find uncertainty unsettling.

Mr Abbott: I’ll give them certainty – I’ll rescind the tax when I get in come 2013.

Concerned Liberal 5: Mr Abbott, I read last week that the Australian Industry Greenhouse Network that represents a swag of mining and manufacturing industries, said it agreed with Treasury that your Direct Action Plan of achieving 5 per cent emission reductions without buying permits overseas, which you said you won’t allow, would at least double the cost to them.

Mr Abbott: Well they’re wrong. As I said, we will spend only $3.2 billion over four years and it’s capped, and we won’t allow international permits.

Concerned Liberal 5: They’re businessmen and seem pretty sure of themselves. Don’t you think it would be a pity to get them offside?

Mr Abbott: Look, we’ve done the sums…

Concerned Liberal 5: Because you won’t allow international permits Treasury is saying it will cost every household $1300 a year more for your Direct Action Plan. It was going to be over $700 anyway, but without those permits it will double. People will not be too happy about that. How should we explain that to our folk?

Mr Abbott: I don’t agree with those figures. Look, just tell them it’s all been worked out. Tell them to read the document – it’s all there.

Concerned Liberal 3: Mr Abbott, in your Plan you intend to use taxpayer’s money to pay the polluters to encourage them to reduce their emissions. Why is that, and what if they don’t?

Mr Abbott: We reckon if we offer them enough money they will voluntarily reduce emissions. If they don’t they will lose the money. Businesses love money so they’ll comply.

Concerned Liberal 3: But if they don’t reduce pollution, because they reckon it’s not worth their while, how will you meet your targets?

Mr Abbott: Don’t you worry about that – they will come on board.

Concerned Liberal 3: Mr Abbott, I thought you were a free marketeer who believes the market always knows best – wouldn’t a market based scheme that sets a price on carbon work better – just about every economist thinks so, and almost none favour your Direct Action Plan.

Mr Abbott: I don’t think much of economists; they’re a pretty unreliable bunch. Anyway, we not going with a market based scheme – Gillard and the Greens are, so we won’t, and Malcolm Turnbull wanted that and the party chucked him out of office for it.

Concerned Liberal 5: Mr Abbott, can I ask you one more thing: you said if the Gillard Government passed the carbon bills, you will rescind them in Government. How will you do that? The Government says that the money it raises with its carbon tax will be paid to pensioners and nine out of ten households to cover the increased cost of electricity and household items that result from the carbon tax – how will you claw back what’s already being paid out, and paid for over a year? We reckon Liberal voters will be angry at having money taken off them, and pensioners will scream blue murder.

Mr Abbott: Well if there’s no tax on them, they don’t need the compensation…

Concerned Liberal 5: But Mr Abbott they are never going to pay the tax, the polluters are. It’s the ordinary folk who will be getting a cash benefit and won’t want to have it taken from them.

Mr Abbott: Well, we’ll just have to explain that to them – no tax, no compensation…

Concerned Liberal 5: That might sound logical Mr Abbott, but I wouldn’t like the job of selling it, I wouldn’t like to tell pensioners that their pension will be going down…

Mr Abbott: You’ll have to leave that to me – don’t you worry about that…

Concerned Liberal 3: Mr Abbott, I don’t think we’re going to get any further on this subject – I’m not sure I understand any better how I’m going to persuade my people that your Direct Action Plan is the goods – I’ve read the policy document from beginning to end – I guess I’ll have to read it again, and get in touch with Greg Hunt to fill in the gaps.

And by the way, the people I talk to are worried about global warming and want serious action taken now; quite a lot are ‘doctors’ wives’ you know – I’m not sure that I’ll be able to reassure them that you feel the same. I had hoped you might have reassured me. Never mind.

Concerned Liberal 1: Mr Abbott, before we leave the carbon tax, you say that you will rescind it in government, but with the Greens having the balance of power in the Senate, how will you get them to vote to rescind it? They are the ones so strongly in favour of the tax; in fact I reckon they would have liked a higher price on carbon.

Mr Abbott: Look, there are ways and means. When they see the people have voted us in, and I’ll make sure the election is a referendum on this toxic tax, how could they obstruct us doing what the people want – which is to get rid of the tax?

Concerned Liberal 1: Well I wonder can you rely on that! The Greens are convinced that global warming is a serious threat and that the tax and the ETS are vital to counteract it. So why would they let you rescind it?

Mr Abbott: Well if they get obstreperous, I’ll threaten them with a double dissolution that will wipe them out.

Concerned Liberal 1: I reckon they might call your bluff.

Mr Abbott: We’ll see…

Concerned Liberal 1: Anyway, all this will take ages and by then don’t you think the voters might have realized that the carbon tax is not killing them like you said? And if the tax hasn’t upset them much, and they’re happily living with it, they might not be too enthusiastic for another election, and it might not go your way. Don’t you think that’s a risk?

Mr Abbott: No. We’re going to win this one. The tax must go and I’ll make sure it does while there is still energy left in my body.

Now is there anything else?

Concerned Liberal 3: Sorry Mr Abbott, we’ve taken a lot of your time and we haven’t got beyond the carbon tax. Can we spend what time we’ve got left talking about your asylum seeker policy?

Mr Abbott: Sure, we’ve got that taped – we’ll just go back to processing on Nauru, temporary protection visas and towing back boats when it’s safe.

Concerned Liberal 3: That sounds pretty simple, but I’ve got a few questions.

First, I thought that towing boats back was out of order – where would you tow them to now that Indonesia says it won’t take them back. And if there was another tragedy, that wouldn’t look good.

Mr Abbott. We’ll work that out at the time, and we’ll tow them only if it’s safe.

Concerned Liberal 3: But what if they set fire to their boats?

Mr Abbott: We’ll work that out at the time; anything else?

Concerned Liberal 2: Are you sure the Nauru plan will work second time around? It seems that there are an awful lot of people out there that want to come here.

Mr Abbott: If it worked for John Howard, it will work for me.

Concerned Liberal 3: I’m glad you’re so confident. But what about the High Court ruling? The constitutional QCs seem to think it knocks out Nauru as much as Malaysia, in fact all offshore processing. So there will need to be a change to the migration laws to allow any offshore processing at all.

Mr Abbott: I disagree; our lawyers, George Brandis and Co, say Nauru will be OK.

Concerned Liberal 3: But if you try Nauru again, don’t you think the refugee lawyers will mount another challenge, like they did for the Malaysia swap?

Mr Abbott: They might try, but Brandis says we’ll be OK.

Concerned Liberal 3: But if Mr Brandis is wrong, you’ll need a change to the migration laws, just like Gillard needs. And if you knock her back now and refuse to back her changes, ones that will give any government the go ahead for offshore processing, will she be likely to back you?

Mr Abbott: Well, I’ll worry about that when the time comes. But I’m determined not to help Gillard get her Malaysia swap deal through – it’s bad policy, and what’s more it will sink her. There will be lots more boats arriving and the detention facilities will collapse under the strain. It’s a winner for me, and another nail in her coffin.

Concerned Liberal 4: But Mr Abbott, if she plays her cards well, might she not blame you for all the new arrivals. Won’t she argue that the boats would have stopped if you had let her Malaysia swap deal through, and that every new boat is your fault? As each one arrives I can hear her saying: ‘Thank you Mr Abbott – now we have another batch to process because you blocked the migration law changes’. It could turn people against you, you know those people who hate these boat people. It would be a pity that in trying to wedge Gillard, she managed to wedge you!

Mr Abbott: But, but, but… well, I’m so high in the polls, I suppose I can afford to lose some skin…anyway I’m not going to help that bitc…

Concerned Liberal 1: I guess you’ll just say No – again!

Mr Abbott, we’ve taken such a lot of your time, and I see you looking at your watch, so I guess we had better let you get on with your busy schedule. You’ve been very generous with your time.

We had quite a lot of other questions our people wanted answered: about whether you’re going to look at WorkChoices again; how you intend to demolish the NBN when its half built and how you will cope with those who miss out; how you’re going to rescind the minerals tax; how you’re going to find the $70 billion of savings you promised to return the budget to a surplus; how you’re going to run your Green Army after you’ve disbanded the climate change department; what you’re intending to do in the health field; and whether you’re going ahead with your own PPL scheme. There were other things too, but we’re out of time.

Mr Abbott: I’m glad you’ve got the answers you were looking for.

Concerned Liberal 2: I guess we’ll need to think about what you’ve told us and distill it for our people. I can see we’ll have to tell them that the things we talked about have all been worked out and that they have to take you at your word that all will be explained well before the election. They were a bit unnerved when you told Kerry O’Brien in that nasty interview on the 7.30 Report that not everything you say is absolutely correct, but we’ll tell them that you were very sure of yourself and that they need to trust you.

If they have more questions, can we come again some time?

Mr Abbott: Sure, sure, do come again!!!

Concerned Liberal 1: Thank you so much Mr Abbott.



Concerned Liberal 1 to the rest outside: Well there it is!!!!! Are you any the wiser? Don’t tell me we’re going to see another round of those mindless three-word slogans. Oh dear! We’d better get our thinking caps on before we front our people.

Concerned Liberal 3: Should we get in touch with Greg Hunt?

Concerned Liberal 4: And get nothing but gobbledygook? Have you ever heard him talk?

Concerned Liberal 5: Gibberish, I’d call it…

Concerned Liberal 2: Why don’t we talk to Malcolm Turnbull; I could arrange a meeting. At least he makes sense! Why did they ever ditch him?

Comments (257) -

September 19. 2011 12:55 PM

Wayne

Bloody terrifying, as its  too close to the most apparant  reality of Abbotts no policy all attack methods.

Wayne

September 19. 2011 01:49 PM

Ad astra

Wayne
You’re right.  It is terrifying.  Yet how much of the terrifying prospect of an Abbott government do we read or hear in the MSM?  It is more interested in the fight, the blood on the floor, the heady excitement of a government losing power and another triumphing, than in the serious issues that beset our nation.  That’s terrifying too.

Ad astra

September 19. 2011 01:52 PM

Gravel

Ad Astra

I will just echo Wayne's response.  For a minute there I thought I was reading Acerbic Conehead.  Well done to you and thank you.

Gravel

September 19. 2011 01:55 PM

Ad astra

Gravel
Comparing my piece to those of Acerbic Conehead is a great compliment.  Thank you.

Ad astra

September 19. 2011 01:56 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thank you for tonight’s Q&A panel, and for the link to the Matthew Franklin article in The Oz.  It seems as if Joe Hockey has gone as crazy as Tony Abbott, throwing caution to the wind with promises to turn government upside down and to hell with the consequences.  It’s not ‘crazy brave’ it’s ‘crazy stupid’.

Ad astra

September 19. 2011 02:43 PM

lyn

Hi Ad,

Thankyou for your splendid article, how you find the time in
your busy life to put such brilliant work together is beyond me.
You are fantastic Ad Astra and you belong to us all, wow!

Your article has been retweeted already a few times on twitter.

This is a tweet with a link to Bushfire Bill's brilliant comment at "The Poll Bludger"

obsession with bread and circuses have been: Shaun Carney, Laurie Oakes, Misha Schubert, Peter Hartcher and, yesterday, Annabel Crabb. All of these then go on to wonder innocently how it all came to this, even as they go through the usual fantasy challenge suspects – Crean, Rudd, Shorten, Smith – as replacements for a “terminal” Gillard who has run, they concede, a tight ship


“cocktail circuit” – Q&A, Insiders, Meet The Press, Agenda on Sky, where they giggle and guffaw their way through endless Gillard-bashing sessions, then plead for maturity in our national discourse.
markjs1Mark Shove
by geeksrulz
Bushfire Bill on the media's parallel universe where facts/policy is ignored and the "Sideshow" trumps reality: http://bit.ly/qEbj09 #auspo

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 19. 2011 03:12 PM

Patricia WA

Had coffee with an old friend just now.  He's been an Australian subscriber forever.   Said that after the weekend stuff on Manne he'll never buy it again.  Last straw in months of cumulutive frustration.   Problem for him is finding a replacement.  Both the West and Sunday Times intersperse actual news with so much guff to wade through.  The Oz was at least rational in lay-out, if not in content recently.   He likes to 'read a paper' before work, though has recently bought an i-pod and is thrilled with how much good and varied listening commentary he can get now,  as he drives a lot.

Patricia WA

September 19. 2011 03:23 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thank you for your kind remarks, and for advising me of the Twitter retweets.  Tell me, how do you pick up these tweets – is it via the people you are ‘following’?

Thank you too for the link to BB’s comment on Poll Bludger.  As usual, it is right to the point.  I wish I could get him to resume writing for TPS.

Ad astra

September 19. 2011 03:27 PM

Patricia WA

Any particular reason he stopped which can be mentioned here?

Patricia WA

September 19. 2011 03:49 PM

Gravel

NormanK

Yes, I do have an ad blocker.  Thank you for the other link, it works and it was great. Thank you so much.  I'll post this on the other thread in case you miss this.

Everybody, this is a conversation about a link I couldn't get to work, and that wonderful NormanK came to my rescue.

Gravel

September 19. 2011 03:52 PM

Ad astra

Patricia WA
BB has been very busy with a business project.  I have emailed him again just now to ask if he’s ready to resume writing for TPS

Ad astra

September 19. 2011 03:55 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

Yes the tweets are from people I follow.  I don't talk on Twitter,
I just read what they say and read their links.

Most of the people I follow are the Political Journalists, amatuer Bloggs and commercial bloggs.

You should, if you want to or feel enclined, go to my Twitter from your home page, @lynlinking , look at who I follow and click
and there they are all in a row the people I follow.

  Just go down the list and click on follow them, you don't have to talk to them. I don't, I just read their tweets, if it's a good tweet with a link I will just press re-tweet.

It's good Ad, because they tell you all about Question time, Q@A, Andrew Green from ABC 24 tells you what is coming up in way of press conferences, the bloggers tell you when they have posted a new article, TV stations tell you news alerts, they tell you who they are going to interview.  When it's Question Time they all tweet about points of order, rabble coalition, tell you when someone gets thrown out.
They  rubbish or praise political articles in the newspapers.

  All their tweets appear on your home page, they are not personal tweets so do not come into your mail box.

Go follow Ad Adstra, you will love the experience.

Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 19. 2011 04:01 PM

lyn

Ad

Here is an example for you from Latika Bourke, Political and Social Media Reporter at Parliament House Canberra :-

markjs1Mark Shove

RT @latikambourke: Opposition Leader Presser 4.05pm. > Finishes at 4.10pm.... #auspol


CheersSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 19. 2011 04:40 PM

Ozyman

You have made the "Abbott" voice far too coherent, AA.

Ozyman

September 19. 2011 04:47 PM

Sir Ian Crisp

AA, we're so hsppy: that you write for, us:- another splendid article; can I just say wow.

Here at TPS; we have so many wonderful, gifted; writers; I'm sure, other blogs are green; with envy.

Sir Ian Crisp

September 19. 2011 04:56 PM

lyn

Sorry Ad

I forgot to tell you not to forget 4 corners tonight:

Four Corners examines the campaign being waged against the Federal Government over climate change policy that will put a price on Australia's greenhouse gas emissions for the first time.

Another Tweet this one from Say Yes Australia:-

SayYesAustraliaSay Yes Australia
'The Carbon War', presented by Kerry O'Brien, goes to air on Monday 19th September at 8.30pm on ABC1. It is... http://fb.me/ThV6N2VZ

Surprise, surprise, Abbott rejects the Monday's amended Asylum Seeker Policy.  The meeting Abbott attended at Julia Gillard's request lasted 15 minutes, Abbott appeared at Question time, at 4pm he calls a press conference, guess what we reject the amended amendments.  Abbott would have had less than a half hour for discussion with his party.

Some tweeted opinions:

rhysamRhys Muldoon
Gillard, Abbott asylum meeting lasts just 15 minutes smh.com.au/national/gilla… via @smh

mfarnsworthMalcolm Farnsworth
On Friday the govt gave its amendments to Abbott. On Saturday he rejected them. On Monday morning Gillard amended her amendments...

GrogsGamutGreg Jericho
Abbott pretty well stumped on sending children to offshore detention - actually asking that journos ask another question!\

mfarnsworthMalcolm Farnsworth
Abbott: The right way to stop the boats is Nauru, TPVs and turning the boats around. Malaysia solution proved not to work.

AshGhebraniousAshGhebranious
@mfarnsworth Well it did one thing. It forced him to mention turning boats around

Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 19. 2011 05:44 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thank you for your advice about tweeting, and your examples.  I am now ‘following’ you and will try to keep track.

I’ll be sure to watch Four Corners tonight; it should be a good night’s viewing.

Ozyman
If this is your first visit, welcome to The Political Sword family.  Do come again.

You are right – I was perhaps too kind to Abbott – but as his followers were around, I went along gently.

Sir Ian
Thank you for your unexpected yet generous compliment.

Ad astra

September 19. 2011 06:12 PM

Feral Skeleton

lyn et al.,
            You can Live Tweet The Drum at #thedrum. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 19. 2011 06:31 PM

lyn

Hi Feral

Yes I know. but have refrained from tweeting myself, I just like to read them.

Must say if I had an IPhone or an Ipad I would probably be tempted
pretty easily.  For instance Annabel Crabb at the moment on the Drum, honestly I can't say what I think.

  Peter B****y Reith
they are making me sick.   Nobody every mentions all this is caused with Abbott because we have a hung Parliament.  Abbott is getting around acting like he is the Prime Minister, they can't Govern without him. Peter Reith even said just that.


Immigration Minister Chris Bowen will be on 730pm

Cheers Feral SmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 19. 2011 06:49 PM

Feral Skeleton

lyn,
     The Drum with Peter Reith on it simply becomes an Infomercial for the Opposition! He just scoffs at anyone who disagrees with his Coalition-centric line and harrangues them until they agree with him.

Feral Skeleton

September 19. 2011 06:50 PM

Feral Skeleton

   Has Sir Ian Crisp been on the Mint Juleps today? Laughing

Feral Skeleton

September 19. 2011 06:58 PM

Feral Skeleton

  Yes, lyn, Twitter can be fun but very time-consuming. Smile  
I spent today having a 'discussion' with Fran Barlow about the government's Asylum Seeker policy(she is a Greens follower). You may have followed it. Wink It was exhausting but I still feel as though I am clinging to the moral high ground on this issue, and nothing that anyone has argued has been able to persuade me away from my ongoing support for the Malaysian Arrangement & the Bali Process.
   As Chris Bowen aptly put it in his Press Conference this afternoon, "The Opposition don't want to support the Malaysian Arrangement because they know it will work." After which any political value they could squeeze from the Asylum Seeker issue would evaporate.

Feral Skeleton

September 19. 2011 07:04 PM

lyn


Hi Ad

More articles about the rejected amended amendments:

In tatters: Tony Abbott kills off Julia Gillard's asylum dream plan
Malcolm Farr, News Com at 5.36 pm

LABOR'S damaged Malaysian deal on asylum seekers has been killed off by Tony Abbott which means all future boat people are now likely to be processed on Australian soil.

www.news.com.au/.../story-e6frfkw9-1226141056742

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 19. 2011 07:31 PM

Tom of Melbourne

"another boat, another policy failure"

Tom of Melbourne

September 19. 2011 07:53 PM

Jason

"another boat, another policy failure"

Another post, another who gives a Fu#k!

Jason

September 19. 2011 07:58 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Yes, if only Abbott would repeat Julia’s contribution to a bipartisan approach to asylum seekers and say “another boat, another policy failure” we would have political consensus.

Tom of Melbourne

September 19. 2011 08:11 PM

Jason

Tom,
   She was right it is a policy failure! the sooner we have onshore processing the better.
This red necked approach to a few thousand people a year is crap.
If it means the loss of a seat or two in "western Sydney" so be it,If Labor has any guts it will change the laws while the indi's and the Greens support onshore processing and make it nigh on impossible should the coalition ever win office to un wind!

Jason

September 19. 2011 08:20 PM

2353

Jason - ignore it.  I suspect Abbott has just wedged himself as every boat that arrives at Christmas Island is there because of Abbott.  All that has to happen now is the ALP have the intestinal fortitude to craft and keep to the message.

It will be interesting to see the mental gymnastics this one generates.

2353

September 19. 2011 08:34 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Malcolm Farr has written yet another ‘he says, she says’ piece that tells us nothing we didn’t already know.

Jason
I think 2353 is right, as this piece suggests – it is Abbott who will be wedged so long as Labor repeats endlessly – ‘another boat arrival thanks to Tony Abbott’, and onshore processing will occur while Abbott cops the blame.  But of course Labor has to do an Abbott and repeat the slogan over and over again!

Ad astra

September 19. 2011 08:54 PM

Tom of Melbourne

“it is Abbott who will be wedged”

Asylum seekers should feel so proud that they have participated in successfully “wedging” Abbott.

Particularly the unaccompanied minors.

Tom of Melbourne

September 19. 2011 09:02 PM

jane

"The Opposition don't want to support the Malaysian Arrangement because they know it will work."

Best summary of the Liars Party MO I've read, FS.

ToM, if only Liealot would come up with a policy on anything it would be a red letter day. And if it actually made sense and wasn't as full of costing holes as a kindy kid's knitting project, that would have to be worthy of an international public holiday.

2353, agree, 100%.

jane

September 19. 2011 09:17 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Yes, but as Ad Astra says, a successful policy on asylum seekers will be one that “wedges Abbott”.

What a sensational contribution, it’s a serious “think tank” here!

Tom of Melbourne

September 19. 2011 09:22 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I'm retiring to listen to Media Watch, Q&A and Lateline.  I'll be back tomorrow.

Ad astra

September 19. 2011 09:54 PM

Patricia WA

But Jason! Chris Uhlmann was very firm with the Minister on the idea that Mr. Abbott might be to blame when boats start coming in large numbers.  It will be you who will be blamed! he told him.

Or was he saying,  Don't think we're going to let you have a win with that one, Julia Gillard!

Preempting tomorrow's possible headlines?   Implied threat?

Patricia WA

September 19. 2011 10:08 PM

NormanK

Ad astra
You've got a new style!
Veerrry nice. Well done.
It is people like your protagonists who may now finally have their eyes opened to Abbott's state of denial. How ironic it would be if asylum seekers was the issue that caused the scales to fall from their eyes.
Putting aside the relative merits of different policies, if Abbott continues to chant "Nauru, Nauru, Nauru" when even the department that would be charged with implementing his policy are publicly saying that it will be a costly and ineffective deterrent makes him look silly. He looks today as if he is in denial. "The High Court judgement doesn't effect me - Go Nauru!" True, the jury might still be out as to whether he can process adults there but it seems pretty clear that it is not somewhere to which he can send minors.
All it will take is for people to recognise this denial on one topic and they will begin to question his stance on many other subjects.
His denial of climate scientists.
His denial of economists.
His denial of Treasury costings.
His denial of Department of Climate Change modelling.
His denial of Solicitor General advice.
His denial of positive economic markers.
His denial of anything that doesn't suit his purposes.

He has his head deliberately buried in the sand with his bum stuck in the air shouting "it doesn't effect me!" through his underpants.

NormanK

September 19. 2011 11:19 PM

D Mick Weir

Ad,
I am a pedant I know, nad this just irked me 'realize'  grrrrrr!

Please realise that my pedantry got the better of me  Smile

D Mick Weir

September 19. 2011 11:19 PM

psyclaw

Just watched the smirking Morisson on Lateline. What a dishonest one he is.

He argues that there is a difference between them turning boats back to Indonesia (a non signatory to UNCR) .... that's OK even without any consideration at all as to their treatment in Indonesia.......and the government doing the same by plane to Malaysia (also a non signatory)......that's not OK even though steps and commitments have been made to ensure their reasonable treatment there.

The smirker takes us all for idiots. He is a disgrace to humanity.

Since my first preference is for on shore processing, I won't be unhappy if that's what happens in the end.

But I feel sure that the Malaysian solution would definitely have been a great disincentive and the boats would have stopped.

It would've been great to see Abbott suffering that eventuality......I have no doubt his opposition to Malaysia is because he knows it will work, and his mantra would be then surplus to requirements.

On another matter, I found it unbelievable to hear Abbott claim on 4 Corners that the negativity and vitriol in debates comes from JG. He also spoke at length about the need for honesty!!!!

He too takes us all for idiots, and in very many cases he's correct.

psyclaw

September 20. 2011 12:17 AM

jane

On another matter, I found it unbelievable to hear Abbott claim on 4 Corners that the negativity and vitriol in debates comes from JG. He also spoke at length about the need for honesty!!!!

And the lies just slip off his tongue as easily as honey off a spoon, psyclaw.

Also the Coal Industry bimbo whose dire predictions of mine closures, monumental job losses and roonation if the carbon price legislation were passed, were directly contradicted by the bloke who said 20+ new mines were due to be opened in the Bowen Basin and who expressed his concern that they wouldn't be able to find enough staff to operate them.

The sooner the legislation is in force and all the Liars party dupes find their jobs are still intact, they don't have to take a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread, they can still buy a flat screen tv for a ridiculously low price and they're NOT all rooned, the sooner they'll be able to turn on the liar who caused all the angst.

Watching that program brought home to me what a pack of liars the Liars Party and their supporters are!

jane

September 20. 2011 07:48 AM

lyn


TODAY'S LINKS



Lose – Lose. Win – Win, Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery
We abandon off shore processing and process them here, on shore. And do it quickly and place genuine refugees into the community. We be good. We forgive ourselves and welcome them. And yes it will be hard.
ashghebranious.wordpress.com/.../

Big and Soft, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless
If Gillard outflanks Abbott with onshore processing he is pretty much stuffed, and the hard rain of electoral defeat will fall
equally upon those in the Coalition who have "worked hard" and those who have not.
andrewelder.blogspot.com/2011/09/big-and-soft.html

By Self-Definition, Genuine Hate-Media, Neil Cook, The Bannerman
he avidly wears his bias in public view, airing his stupidity regularly in social media's peanut gallery, #auspol, quite frankly
disqualifies him from having any form of objectivity in the discussion of right or proper government in this country.
www.waddayano.org/.../...finition_genuine_hate.php

Abbott wins what-, Min, Café Whispers
Turn back the boats – yet Abbott ignores it when the Indonesians they say yet again that they won’t accept his returns.
Abbott also refuses to admit that more deaths would be probable under his policy.
http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/

Media ownership matters: Why politicians need to take on proprietors, Michael Pusey, The Conversation
At the other end of the spectrum the once reputable Murdoch-owned Australian speaks only for top end business interests.The print and broadcastmedia now routinely offer platforms for the views of right wing think tanks funded with undisclosed contributions from corporations, such as theSydney Institute, the Institute for Public Affairs and the Centre for Independent Studies.
theconversation.edu.au/media-ownership-matters-why-politicians-need-to-take-on-proprietors-he+Cy+updates&ucampaign=

Wayne Swan: world's greatest treasurer?, Paul Barry, The Power Index
Could Australia have another 'World's Greatest Treasurer' on its hands with Wayne Swan? Don't tell Paul Keating, but it seems
the answer is 'Yes'. Or so says political commentator, Laurie Oakes, who believes "the smart money is on Swan"
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../20110918420

The Oz as a (dysfunctional) group blog, John Quiggin
I and others have demonstrated many times now, a single piece of criticism from a relatively obscure academic can drive the
country’s only national newspaper (not counting the Fin with its special focus) into absurd paroxysms of rage
johnquiggin.com/.../

Bad News Murdoch’s Australian and the shaping of the nation, The Wheeler Centre
6:15PM - 7:15PM, Wednesday 21 September 2011,
Paul Kelly will not attend Wed night's Qrtrly Essay 'Bad News' event w Robert Manne & @sophblack http://ow.ly/6xXhf
wheelercentre.com/.../

Finished with the issue, Dave Gaukroger, Pure Poison
I think that this looks like the Oz is leaving the field because they’ve realised that their effort to date has done nothing more than provide further examples of the type of behaviour that Manne criticised. Sooks.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

More trees lost as Manne Vs The Oz continues ,Matthew Knott, The Power Index
over the weekend the paper devoted two full pages – six articles and over 8,000 words in total – to rebutting Manne's conclusions. Greg Sheridan called Manne "awfully silly and desperately sad", Chris Kenny accused him of"paranoia" and Chris Mitchell said he was guilty of "writing crap" and manipulating the holocaust for political advantage.
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../2011091942

Is there any benefit in partisan media? Bernard Kean, Crikey
the question for the Telegraph, The Australian, 2GB and 2UE is whether they understand that partisanship and the “quality journalism” tradition areincompatible. The Telegraph is already the least trusted newspaper in the country and commercial radio the least-trusted mainstream media source.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

It ain't necessarily so: Robert Manne's essay misses the mark, John Harrison, ABC
If academics want to be taken seriously in their critique of media, then surely a good dose of scholarly rigour is needed, bringing to bear the methods that we as academics champion - such as ethnography or text analytics - not the superficial "some analysts say" seven second grabs that passes for much contemporary journalism practice.
www.abc.net.au/.../3320701.htm

Flint bumps Flynn for Tae Kwon Do Jai,Barry Everingham, Independent Australia
I was interested to see Flint leaping to the defence of The Australian following Robert Manne’s devastating
and incisive essay on what is wrong with the Murdoch flagship rag — which, incidentally, is pro Republic.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

On the wrong side of communication, Malcolm Farnsworth, The Drum
Prime Minister addressed the Chifley Research Centre with yet another speech about "Labor values". I lost count of the number of times she used the term in the speech. Just about every question from the audience was answered with the same monotonous call to "our Labor values"
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2905878.html
.
Costings aftermath- Joe Hockey is to truth as, Peter Martin
Asked to explain the discrepancy between the letters he had signed and the claims made by his Treasury spokesman,
Mr Loughnane said yesterday "you'll have to ask Joe why he said what he said".
www.petermartin.com.au/.../...oe-hockey-is-to.html

'Manoeuvring the boats', Dave’s Archives
large proportion of voters will continue to be outraged at the Government's apparent inability to "protect our borders", and will (by a trivial process of elimination) look to Abbott instead. Thus, for the moment, Abbott has a crucial political interest, perversely, in ensuring the boats do not stop.
http://davec.org/2011/09/manoeuvring-the-boats/

Gillard cops ‘no’ from all sides, Amber Jamieson, Crikey
That’s not the only thing that could happen under a Liberal government. Joe Hockey confirmed that if the Coalition was in power,
it would wind back the carbon-tax scheme and all the compensation for households — tax cuts, etc — that comes with it.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Justice is AWOL, Jacinda Woodhead, Overland
They could massively increase our refugee intake and help people find safe passage; they could withdraw Australian troops; they
could consider including some facts and evidence in their debates. With such wretched options for government, you start to wonder:
web.overland.org.au/2011/09/justice-is-awol/

Migration Act amendments: read them here, The Drum, ABC
blogs.abc.net.au/.../...dments-read-them-here.html

ALP vice-president quits amid HSU furore, Simon Cullen, ABC
Michael Williamson, who will also step down as senior vice-president of Labor's NSW branch, has been embroiled in
controversy over allegations he inappropriately spent union funds.
www.abc.net.au/.../2906650

Convergence Review, Australian Government
On 19 September 2011, the committee released five detailed discussion papers to address a range of issues and options for considerationby the committee and stakeholders. You can make a submission on these discussion papers through the 'open call for submissions' below.
www.dbcde.gov.au/.../convergence_review

Tony Abbott: Too Dangerous to Lead, Scribe Publications, Susan Mitchell at The Wheeler Centre, Scribe news
since Tony Abbott assumed the leadership of the Liberal Party, bipartisanship has all but disappeared. He has created a national political atmosphere thatis aggressive, inflammatory, and combative. Why? Because it suits his temperament.
www.scribepublications.com.au/.../susanmitchellatthewheelercentre

We will stop the boats: Tony Abbott, Australian Politics TV
Just when you thought they had finished using that tired slogan “Stop the Boats”, the Liberal Party has released this video.
australianpoliticstv.org/.../

5 things to like about Julia Gillard,Harry Clarke
Gillard is an intelligent woman and that is a positive in the face of widespread misogyny in at least the Australian male electorate.
She is also a much more intelligent and able politician that Kevin Rudd who remains a posturing,hyperactive dill.
www.harryrclarke.com/.../

Stephen Smith denied pair for Australia-India Roundtable speech, News Com
Government whip Joel Fitzgibbon confirmed the Opposition had not granted a pair to allow Mr Smith to be absent from Parliament.
www.news.com.au/.../story-

lyn

September 20. 2011 07:58 AM

Feral Skeleton

   Shout out! to Casablanca or psyclaw, or any other learned legal eagle. Smile
   I had the strangest thought pop into my head yesterday while I was weeding the garden and I need an opinion to set me straight.
   Now, I know Tony Abbott is one of the slimiest abusers of the
Westminster Tradition of government that has walked this Earth, and so it was that I wondered why does he keep introducing his Bill to Repeal the Queensland Wild Rivers Legislation into a parliament that has already knocked it back, not once but twice, on my estimation.
  We already know that he and Noel Pearson want to mine the bejeezus out of North Queensland, and the Coalition also have this in mind( and gawd help Northern Australia as a result, and save us from Bill Heffernan and Barnaby Joyce's mangy thought bubbles):
   www.abc.net.au/.../2905896

   All of which led me to ponder whether Tony Abbott may, by introducing this Bill to Parliament and having it rejected twice, be setting himself up procedurally for his desired Double Dissolution of Parliament, to gain control of the Senate as soon as is legally possible after the 2013 Election(which hopefully everyone in the electorate will have stopped and thought about before they condemn themselves to all manner of draconian policies courtesy of Abbott's Guided Democracy as a result of electing him PM)?

   So, the question is, simply, can a Prime Minister call a Double Dissolution after having his/her Bills rejected by Parliament twice from Opposition, once they subsequently become PM?

Feral Skeleton

September 20. 2011 08:00 AM

2353

Here's the headline to sink Abbott (pun intended)

JULIA GILLARD has little option but to resort to the onshore processing of asylum seekers after Tony Abbott killed off her Malaysia plan and the government vowed to never send asylum seekers to Nauru.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0110919-1ki2b.html

Surely somone in the ALP can make the case that Nauru is off the agenda as there is less infrastructure and it makes no sense economically.

2353

September 20. 2011 08:13 AM

lyn

Hi Feral

Her is Antony Green on Double Dissolutions, the link goes to a comment Posted by: Craig | August 21, 2011 at 06:42 PM

Feral tell me what you think.

If in this case Abbot fails to pass a bill twice through the Senate, which will remain with the Greens holding the balance, Abbot may be able to call a double dissolution.

This is far more likely than any series of events giving a trigger to the current government. Even if such a trigger was in place, it is not in Gillard's interest to ask the Governor-General to call a double dissolution anyway.


If Abbott can unseat the current government, and if he is then able to engineer a trigger for a double dissolution election, and if he then decides to ask the Governor-General for such an election and if the GG agrees, then we may see one. But not for another year at least! (and constrained by the six month rule, not after the end of 2012

blogs.abc.net.au/.../...n-are-just-ridiculous.html

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 20. 2011 08:20 AM

TalkTurkey

Good Morning Folks from the Silver City Broken Hill.

Heading on the midnight flyer to Sydney tonight, NSW Central Coast Friday.

Optus wireless broadband works better here than it does around suburban Glenelg . . .

I am not really across what happened at The Meeting yesty. I know Abbortt performed true to name and down to expectations.
It is at centre a sort of chess match/wrist wrestle between *J*U*L*I*A* and Abbortt, she is far the cleverer but he has the power of Murdochracy behind him. That such an issue should come to this in my prosperous and allegedly generous country is something that should shame us all.

I think it a great pity that the 'regional solution' is not already operating, I think it an eminently reasonable stragegy provided Australia can oversee the way AS are treated which for Dog's sake shouldn't be too hard? To me it would seem to tick the most important boxes, a damping effect on the notion of Asia taking to the boats and swamping Oz, and humane treatment without the horrors of Christmas Island.

I've never understood why the 'processing' should take so bloody long though. Why is that, does anyone know? Papers, yeah yeah, OK, but what about wrist locator bleeper things that would let the people go free after health checks, pending further ID checks etc, always of course under pain of instant deportation should the wearer remove the device illegally (and be caught subsequently)? Is that so fantastic a fantasy?

Anyway I might get a look at QT today.

Speaking of which, the flossy-haired blonde lass last night on Q&A was all over the rest of them for good sense and logic. I was disappointed with the agnosticky bloke, he took so long to say so little so weakly, a wasted op I thought.



  

      

TalkTurkey

September 20. 2011 08:32 AM

Patricia WA

DMW - you're absolutely right.  You are being pedantic.

OED says that 'realise' is a variation on the verbe 'realize'

Patricia WA

September 20. 2011 08:33 AM

Feral Skeleton

lyn,
    Thanks for that, however that is the conventional wisdom, according to Antony Green's vast knowledge of these things. What I was contemplating was Abbott having a legal opinion from one of his 'Guided Democracy' legal advisors who may have told him that it was possible to bring a Bill to parliament from Opposition, as Leader of the Oppositioin, have it defeated twice, and then, once in government, bring that Bill back again as the first order of government business and have it defeated again in order to satisfy the requirements for calling a Double Dissolution. Or maybe even not bring it back again once in government but just call the Double Dissolution Election as soon as the Coalition are in government because they are already in possession of a Bill which has been rejected twice by parliament, with a gap of 3 months inbetween each presentation.
  Knowing how Machiavellian and manipulative this man and his team are I just wouldn't put it past them to engineer such an eventuality if they had the legal advice to support them in their aim to wrench back control of both Houses of Parliament.

Feral Skeleton

September 20. 2011 08:35 AM

Feral Skeleton

  Oops! I think it would be better if I spell-checked before hitting 'Send' Embarassed

Feral Skeleton

September 20. 2011 08:37 AM

Feral Skeleton

   Good Morning Talk Turkey!
Isn't our wonderful State of NSW a gem? Wait till you get to the heart of the Universe, otherwise known as the Central Coast. Laughing

Feral Skeleton

September 20. 2011 08:42 AM

Feral Skeleton

TT,
   I agree with your assessment of Raymond Gaita, he was deadly dull and his comments unedifying. I mean, it's typical of the elitist attitudes of the mavens of the ABC, like Tony Jones, that he would prefer to be reverential towards some old, white-haired guy who wrote one good book, than give at least an equal amount of time to a star of the new media world...because she is a young, vivacious, attractive and well-spoken woman?

  And, my, my, isn't Gerard Henderson turning into an out and out Islamophobe?

   Jim Wallace was owned by the audience and Josh Thomas. Which was pleasing to see. He is the embodiment of all that would float to the surface, like pond scum, in an Abbott government.

Feral Skeleton

September 20. 2011 08:43 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

September 20. 2011 08:46 AM

Feral Skeleton

  Oh, I just had the cheekiest idea. Laughing
If Onshore Processing becomes the de facto Asylum Seeker Processing policy, due to Tony Abbott and Smug Morrison's too-clever-by-half political gameplay, then the government should rebadge each Asylum Seeker boat that comes ashore as TIEV #1, TIEV#2, etc. And we all know what the 'T' will stand for.

Feral Skeleton

September 20. 2011 09:34 AM

Feral Skeleton

  You just have to examine with a magnifying glass things like the Press Conference held yesterday by Abbott, Morrison and Brandis, wherein they were obviously trying on their new persona of 'We are the government,actually' to see how transparently paper-thin it was. All style, no substance.
   First you had Abbott assuming his best confected Prime Minster mien, Brandis trying his hardest to sound perceptive and learned about the government's Asylum Seeker Amendments and the Opposition's absolutely-unchanged position dressed up in new clothes, but ending up sounding and looking like a pompous git; finally, they let smug Scott Morrison off the leash to prove, once and for all, how politically inept the Opposition's top attack dog actually is. Seeing as how he continues to suspend the reality of the illegality of the Opposition's own incredibly inadequate policy on Asylum Seeker's Offshore processing, aka the Nauru+TPV+Sink,er Stop the Boats Solution.
  I was horrified to hear Abbott openly canvass the fact that he would authorise the Navy to clandestinely, under the cover of darkness, tow Asylum Seeker boats back out to sea in order to try and deposit them again in Indonesian waters. Which the Indonesian Navy will not allow, of course, and which country, Indonesia, is also not a signatory to the same convention that he is Rabbitting on about the government not respecting by signing an MOU with Malaysia.
  Which just goes to the heart of the 'Inconsistencies Ahoy!' approach of the Opposition, wherein they hope that their fancy footwork will not see them slip up on the banana peels of their own logical inconsistencies.
   Talk about not ready for government alright. They aren't even ready to hold a Press Conference together as a simulacrum of a viable alternative government. All they ever do is perform their set pieces to camera, then only ever take questions from the Gallery for 10 minutes at the most. Also, if the questions they do take are even the slightest bit inquisitorial and attempting to point up their inconsistencies and failure of any internal logic to their stated position, well then they just avoid answering it altogether and turn it simply into another opportunity to kick against the pricks as they see them in government.
   They are the men and women of pathetically small political stature in other words, having all read Sun Tzu and gone to their Conservative Brainwashing, er, Training Schools in the USA, but not understood that to actually be successful in politics and to win the only poll that counts, you have to be more than a mile wide and an inch deep.

Feral Skeleton

September 20. 2011 09:39 AM

Trevor

I happened to be listening to the RN Encounter program on the weekend.  The program was about a women's attempt to conduct sermons within a catholic community.  At on stage of the interview the women recounted how a senior man in the church advised her to just go and conduct a sermon which was counter to the church rulings and would be in defiance of the arch bishop.  When she questioned this strategy, the man advised her that "forgiveness is granted more readily than permission".  She agreed with this and went ahead with the strategy, which backfired by the way.

Of course the advice rang a bell, as the words were very close to those uttered by Mr Abbott when he was pinned on one of his many contradictions.  Am I to take that this is a standard approach by the devout in order to justify their conflicted approach.  

Trevor

September 20. 2011 10:48 AM

D Mick Weir

PatriciaWA @ 8:32 AM
yep definitely I am a pedantatist.

I just can't picture a true conservative saying realize. Being conservative I expect they would stick with the good old fashioned way of saying the word with an 'ess' not a 'zee'.

Oh dear my inner conservative has hopped out of the closet again.

D Mick Weir

September 20. 2011 10:50 AM

D Mick Weir

NormanK
asylum seekers George has opened his blog for a discussion.
blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/.../on_refugee_policy

Some (mostly) sane stuff being batted around.

D Mick Weir

September 20. 2011 11:24 AM

NormanK

D Mick Weir

Cheers.

NormanK

September 20. 2011 11:45 AM

lyn

Hi DM Weir

I want to say Cheers to you too.

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 20. 2011 12:02 PM

jane

I mean, it's typical of the elitist attitudes of the mavens of the ABC, like Tony Jones, that he would prefer to be reverential towards some old, white-haired guy who wrote one good book, than give at least an equal amount of time to a star of the new media world...because she is a young, vivacious, attractive and well-spoken woman?

And gay, FS?

jane

September 20. 2011 12:05 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thank you for your comprehensive set of links and the additional ones you supply all day long.  No wonder so many people come here.

I’m now following you on Twitter and can see how much interesting information comes via this route.  Thank you for the tip.

NormanK
Thank you for your complimentary remarks.  Coming from a scientific background, this is my usual style of writing, but occasionally a situation seems so suitable for satire that I try my hand at it.  But unlike the satirically- gifted AC, it is not my natural style, so such pieces are likely to be few and far between.

D Mick Weir
I am in a constant battle with my spell-checker that prefers ‘zee’ to ‘s’.  I try not to let them slip through, but sometimes they do.

jane
You are right – if only Tony Abbott would come up with coherent policy, we could debate it sensibly.  But his propensity to fashion policy opportunistically, as he has this week with his Nauru solution, makes debate worthless as his logic is centered on the political, not the policy.

psyclaw
Scott Morrison’s self satisfied smirk reminded me of Peter Costello.  He thinks he’s on a winner, and no interviewer has the opportunity to challenge him as he seems to be a talk without stopping to breathe.  As my dear old Mum would have said: “He could talk the leg off an iron pot’.

FS
Thank you for your many contributions.  I think a DD is a long shot, even for Abbott.  

Talking of headlines, I like TIEV as a label for new boat arrivals.  What about  ‘Abbott towed out to sea’?

Trevor
For a long while, Tony Abbott has operated on his ecclesiastically acquired strategy: ‘first do whatever you like and then ask for forgiveness’.

Ad astra

September 20. 2011 12:07 PM

D Mick Weir

Thanks Lyn,
I have been swamped over the last couple of weeks and I am bit behind on your excellent homework oops, links.

Cheers Smile

D Mick Weir

September 20. 2011 12:40 PM

D Mick Weir

Ad,
stepping into NK's domain does your word processor have the option to set the dictionary to Aus English, some have only UK English (US English is the default in most WP's)

If you use word press F1 (search) and type in Custom Dictionaries and go from there.

D Mick Weir

September 20. 2011 12:40 PM

TalkTurkey

DMW said
"yep definitely I am a pedantatist.

I just can't picture a true conservative saying realize. Being conservative I expect they would stick with the good old fashioned way of saying the word with an 'ess' not a 'zee'."

I realize it hassles your head
To displace s and use z instead
I'm a pedant yeah sure,
And it hassles me more
For folks to say zee 'stead o' zed!

TalkTurkey

September 20. 2011 12:42 PM

D Mick Weir

Ad,
dash forgot you use Mac. NK will know the Mac the Knife fix.

D Mick Weir

September 20. 2011 01:27 PM

NormanK

D Mick Weir

Unfortunately, you are on shaky ground with 'realize/realise'.
My spell checker is set to Australian dictionary and it does flag 'realize' as being worthy of query but the dictionary is quite happy to give a definition for the 'zed' Smile version.
OED (which is my bible) lists 'realize' as the searchable word with 'realise' as the alternate spelling.
Every dictionary that I have consulted has listed either one as being acceptable with the only variations being which is listed as the first spelling and which is considered alternate.
This is one of those words that has become caught up in the fight-back against the American habit of replacing esses with zeds.
It doesn't fall into that category. It's down to personal preference unfortunately. The only thing in your favour is that most dictionaries list the origin as: on the pattern of French réaliser.
I am in the 'realise' camp but I doubt my prejudice is based on anything rational.

NormanK

September 20. 2011 01:51 PM

lyn

Hi Talk Turkey

That's nice you have come to see us while you are tripping around
in adventure land,  Silver City  Broken Hill , midnight flying, living it up at parties .

Abbortt performed true to name and down to expectations
Abbott met with Julia Gillard for a whole 15 minutes to go over
the amendments, then said NO to the amended amendments, that’s
all you need to know.

flossy-haired blonde lass last night on Q&A was all over the rest of them for good sense and logic
Kristina Keneally she was excellent on Q @ A,  poor her, NSW gave her a hard time, wonder how they feel about Barry O’Farrell now though, he is doing everything Labor got rubbished for, serves
the voters right.

Stay safe and take care Talk Turkey, we hope you enjoy yourself.

Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 20. 2011 01:51 PM

NormanK

D Mick Weir

A bit more research suggests I may have to correct myself - it is a US/Canadian versus English battle for spelling rights and we have lost the fight for top billing even in the English Oxford Dictionary.
Remember dictionaries are descriptive not prescriptive.

NormanK

September 20. 2011 01:57 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

Abbott on 7.30pm report, that would be the first since Kerrie O'Brien talking about writing lies down.

leighsalesLeigh Sales

Our guest tonight is the Opposition Leader Tony Abbott #abc730

1 minute agoFavoriteRetweetReply

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 20. 2011 02:00 PM

Ad astra

NormanK
Thanks, I have reset my Dictionary to English Australian.  Hopefully I will now not annoy DMW any more with ‘zees’.

Ad astra

September 20. 2011 02:05 PM

D Mick Weir

TT
zee or zed (good limmerick btw)
ok I go with zed

NK
rationality is not one of my long suits!!!

The whole discussion it's all a bit 'too mait oh', 'to mart oh'

In the end it was all about how a conservative would tend to be conservative when it comes to spelling and it doesn't really matter one way or the other. Intriguing to see the responses to a trivial comment.  Smile

And for something about punctuation have a look at this:
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3438

D Mick Weir

September 20. 2011 02:55 PM

Ad astra

DMW
I've checked 'comma required before last list item' in 'Preferences'.  I hope I've done the right thing.

Ad astra

September 20. 2011 03:01 PM

D Mick Weir

Ad,
umm, I am still learning Smile
my biggest problem is with apostrophes, I still get mixed up.
come to think of 'i before e except after c' (and in lots of other cases) confuses me often as well.

There is a book called something like 'Eats leeks and leaves' that I wish I had bought when I ran into it some years ago

D Mick Weir

September 20. 2011 03:05 PM

Gravel

Lyn

Nah, he appeared with ulman something to do with Koories, it was pre-recorded and the usual rubbish, I won't be watching.  I thought Julia did a great job last night.

Gravel

September 20. 2011 03:09 PM

Ad astra

Folks
Did you hear Julia Gillard with Sabra Lane this morning on AM – not prepared to take any nonsense from her, and very direct and forceful in her answers which condemned Tony Abbott’s actions in a most vehement way.  Today in QT she continued her feisty performance.  In my view, this is the only way to counter the Abbott strategy of misinformation, derision and rank political opportunism. For once Sabra let her have her head with minimal interruptions, and her cheeky question near the end got the answer it deserved.

When you became prime minister last year you nominated the carbon pricing scheme, asylum seekers and the mining tax as three issues that you needed to fix.  The carbon scheme is pretty much where it was when Mr Rudd left it - on ice.  You've given away billions more in the mining tax and now the asylum seeker policy has resulted in this.  Voters would be right to conclude nought out of three wouldn't they?

Read Julia Gillard’s response here:
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2011/s3321365.htm

Ad astra

September 20. 2011 03:37 PM

Sue

Abbott is not as dumb as he looks and this cartoon has illuminated nothing.Read his address to Consilium to see why he is successful in the polls. Climate advocates are the ones who made "belief in climate Science" the ticket to credibility on this issue thereby giving it the mask of a religion and thereby squandering the attention of the people with the trappings of a cult. The voters are rejecting the pseudo-religion along with the science, everything being tarred with the same brush.

Sue

September 20. 2011 03:50 PM

Feral Skeleton

Sue,
    Welcome to The Political Sword! Smile
May I politely disagree with your assertion about 'belief in Climate Science' and your assertion that it has 'the trappings of a cult'. I will not say much more than that because you have happened to identify excactly the subject of my next post. I hope you come back to read it and comment upon it. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 20. 2011 03:50 PM

Ad astra

Folks
Have you noticed that those opposed to the Gillard Government come here only to sneer?  Not one has attempted to refute the substance of this piece with regard to climate change or asylum seeker policy.

No one here, or in the MSM that I have seen, has asked Tony Abbott to explain how his Direct Action Plan would actually work.  Scientists accept that trees are carbon sinks and that the plowing in of bio-char will reduce CO2, so it is not the science of these aspects of the DAP that is in question, it is the logistics.

Where has Tony Abbott ever been asked to say how many trees would be needed, how many hectares of arable land would be required, how much water, how many people to plant the trees, and how food and fibre production would be able to continue to meet our needs after large areas of arable land have been assigned to tree plantations?  If you have a reference/link, please post it.  

When has Abbott been asked to explain how he will enlist 15,000 to his Green Army, where they come from, how much he will pay them, how he will deploy them, how he will house and feed them, how he will administer their activities having disbanded the climate change department, how they will actually access the tree seedlings and plant them, water them and tend them, and for how long.  Has anyone asked how long it will take for these trees to absorb the 15 million tones of carbon abatement they are assigned to absorb by 2020?

Who in the MSM has challenged Abbott to explain how bio-char will be produced in sufficient quantities, and how farmers will be induced to plow it into their soil?  

Has anyone in the MSM insisted Abbott explain why households should be $1300 worse off per year because of his plan, and why the taxes they pay will be given to the polluters to encourage them to reduce pollution?  Has anyone dared to point out to him that he will need to claw back tax cuts, family benefits and pension payments already in place for a year, and insist that he explain how he will con the public to believe this is good for them?

His DAP is a sham and a monumental con inflicted on a misinformed and largely disinterested public.  Malcolm Turnbull sees it as designed in a way that it could easily be scrapped, which no doubt Abbott would do when the logistics overwhelmed him.  Yet no one in the MSM has pulled him up and insisted he explain himself, which of course he wouldn’t do; nor has anyone called his DAP the incompetent and unworkable plan it is.  

The headline that should scream from every newspaper should be: ‘Abbott’s Direct Action Plan a premeditated fraud’.  With the Murdoch press working for an Abbott government, that’s a faint hope.  The MSM is letting us down very, very badly.

Ad astra

September 20. 2011 04:04 PM

D Mick Weir

Ad @ 3:50 PM,
vague memory that Abbott was asked some of those type of questions at pressers but he refused to answer or fobbed them off with a trite 'we have done the numbers' or similar.

Here is part of the problem, he refuses to answer so, the 'pack', tend to ask questions that he will answer. Weak, but human nature. Why beat your head against a brick wall? TA beig the brick wall.

D Mick Weir

September 20. 2011 04:08 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

So does that mean now, when you go to your twitter homepage
you are getting lots more information? do you get Grog's comments and Pollytics (possum) they talk to each other a lot.

I have been sending bits of info to you on twitter.

I am pleased to hear you always find some interesting reading in the "Today's Links".  Tell you what the readers like the links I know but the blogg owners love getting included, isn't that good.
Everybody helping to get the message out there, long live the
bloggers.

The Liaberals getting upset over "At Home with Julia", I don't like the show and would not waste my time watching, but if the Liaberals are upset with jealousy, well that's ok  by me.

MPs angered over Gillard satire sex scene, ABC  
The issue flared in the Coalition's joint party room meeting earlier today, sparking some calls for a rethink of ABC funding
www.abc.net.au/.../2908158

aus_mediaAustralian Media
PM comedy not funny, say Coalition MPs: COALITION MPs have attacked a controversial TV satire on Julia Gillard a... http://bit.ly/oKUMPW

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 20. 2011 04:19 PM

Patricia WA

DMW - are you talking about a species which eats roots and leaves?



Patricia WA

September 20. 2011 04:19 PM

Ad astra

Sue
Welcome to The Political Sword family.  Do come again.

You may believe that the public is dismissing the science as ‘a religion’ or ‘a cult’.  Maybe some are, because of the efforts of the very vocal skeptics.  

May I propose to you though that the scientific evidence supporting global warming is overwhelming, and while nothing in science is absolute, the probability that global warming is a myth is so low that only the foolish will ignore it and take refuge in the belief that this is just some fad adopted by climate cultists.  

In my view, to risk the future of the planet in this way and disregard the probability of disaster for future generations, is like a like a motorist driving at breakneck speed headlong towards a cliff, ignoring multiple warning signs about the danger ahead, believing they have been placed there by safety fanatics, and hoping his brakes will pull him up in time if in fact the danger is real, very real.

Does anyone regards Tony Abbott as ‘dumb’?  He is the most cunning, conniving opportunist in politics today.

Ad astra

September 20. 2011 04:30 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thanks for the link to the ‘At Home with Julia’ article.  It’s an interesting reaction from Coalition backbenchers.  I imagine they are more upset at the prospect of Julia getting some kudos from the series than they are offended by the use of the flag.

I haven’t enjoyed the series and the last one was very slapstick, but I watch it through a political lens to see how she’s being portrayed.

Ad astra

September 20. 2011 05:15 PM

Casablanca

FS and TT

TT said, "I was disappointed with the agnosticky bloke, he took so long to say so little so weakly, a wasted op I thought."

I took it to be a comment about Gerard Henderson because he identified himself last night as an agnostic and was being his tedious self. My recall was that Raimond Gaita identified himself as an atheist. Maybe I am wrong on that, nevertheless, I always like to have the considered views of Professor Gaita.

The Q&A website lists the topic of yesterday's program asA Philosophical Q and A thus Raimond Gaita was the most appropriately qualified panel member. It's a glib ad hominem argument FS to write him off as an 'old, white-haired guy who wrote one good book,'

Raimond Gaita (born 1946) is Foundation Professor of Philosophy at the Australian Catholic University and Professor of Moral Philosophy at King's College London. He is a Fellow of the Australian Academy of the Humanities.

Because he believes that it is generally a good thing for philosophers to address an educated and hard-thinking lay audience as well as their colleagues, Gaita has contributed extensively to public discussion about reconciliation, collective responsibility, the role of moral considerations in politics, genocide and the alleged uniqueness of the Holocaust, education (the nature of teaching as a vocation, the role of love in learning) and about the plight of the universities. Most recently he has been active in speaking and writing against people who advocate that in order to protect ourselves against terrorists we should legalise some forms of torture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raimond_Gaita

Casablanca

September 20. 2011 05:26 PM

2353

AA said Have you noticed that those opposed to the Gillard Government come here only to sneer?  Not one has attempted to refute the substance of this piece with regard to climate change or asylum seeker policy.

Yup - sure have.  The "accepted" trick is to pick some point, derail the discussion to just that point and then have the discussion degenerate into name calling and point scoring.  In short, the idiot enters the discussion, derails it, reduces it to their level (name calling and point scoring) and beats you with experience.

The solution to the problem is don't take the bait.  Ignore them, then they are starved of oxygen and go away to regroup.  This is a wonderful space to discuss, owned and operated by AA - who is getting a number of plaudits for the high standard and (general) civility of the topics discussed.  My only concern is that the idiots will eventually drag this blog down - like they did to Bryan (forget the surname) around the time of the 2007 election - yes I've been around the political blogs that long.  Lets work to ensure they don't!

2353

September 20. 2011 05:52 PM

jj

AA and others,

To say that the Coalition MP's that have spoken out about the way the PM is being treated in the ABC show are only speaking out because it might work in her favor is just garbage. If you read the direct quotes, they say that it is (the show) demeaning of the office of the PM... a pretty fair comment i believe.

As for the whole asylum seeker crisis, the government only has its self to blame. I love it that they are trying to spin the whole saga as a character test for Abbott, when we know that it was Bowen that wished to resign a few years ago because his 'character' couldnt take it any more. Just think back for a minute, why is it that the government undid all that was done by the Howard Government? Because they said they did not support the whole idea of offshore processing. Now, it is obvious that the department warned them against this at the time (because they say today that it has been a long known fact that offshore processing can work as a deterrent) but the government ignored it to proceed with what they believed (based on principle!).
The the boats began to come, but the then minister, minister Evans, stated that the whole reason for the increase in arrivals was due to push factors and had very little to do with domestic policy. But then they kept coming and coming and coming up until the point where Krudd made the announcement that he was going to get tough on people smugglers; introducing policies such as putting a freeze on the processing of Afgan claims for asylum (wow did that turn out to work well).
Next came Julia with her death stare, and even tougher stance on the issue. During the election campaign she pulled out all of the stunts including one of the most ridiculous in political history: taking the member for Lindsay on a boat ride in Darwin Harbor, then had him nod his head through every press conference the PM did while on her excursion to the North. Gillard then announced that she has come up with a deal with Malaysia, and that pull factors were an issue. however, of course, Julia got a little mixed up with who was actually in charge of such policy and spoke to the President of the country instead of the PM. The East Timor solution got her through the election and then fell apart afterwards thanks to the handy work of Gillard and Bowen. After that fell apart and the Xmas island tragedy, the government announced that they had a new solution that would fix the problem, and they began to sound quite like the opposition, stating that it was the pull factors in large part that were causing people to come to Australia by boat. The Malaysia solution was born, lasted a couple of months, and now, like every other attempt by this government, is dead.
Gillard, now without any policy whatsoever is attempting to blame Abbott for this policy mess! Seeing as the Labor Party now supports offshore processing, which as i have shown they didnt leading up to and after the 07 election, it would have been far more helpful if they had have thought about what they were doing in the first place! Usually you either believe push factors are the major factors in enticing people to Australia, or you dont. You usually either believe in offshore processing, or you dont. You usually believe in sending asylum seekers to countries that have signed the Refugee Convention, or you dont. You either believe in principle before politics, or you dont. You either take responsibility for your own actions, or you dont (it was the government that did all of the things i have listed... the opposition was not involved!). However, with this government, it seems that they have taken both positions on each of the major debating points of the debate, and look where that has led them!
I find it hilarious to hear Steven Conroy, of all people, decrying that Abbott could cause a wave of boats from the North to come south and cause problems! Just a few months ago he was lambasting Abbott for saying the exact thing... i am pretty sure he was called an extremist and racist. Instead of blaming the Liberal Party Swordsmen and women (as well as the Labor Party), how about you own up to your inconsistencies, find a position and stick to it! That way at least if things go wrong you will at least have some sort of credibility.

jj

September 20. 2011 06:06 PM

Casablanca

DMW

That would be Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation is a non-fiction book written by Lynne Truss, the former host of the BBC Radio 4's Cutting a Dash programme. In the book, published in 2003, Truss bemoans the state of punctuation in the United Kingdom and the United States and describes how rules are being relaxed in today's society. Her goal is to remind readers of the importance of punctuation in the English language by mixing humour and instruction.

I fear that texting will eventually lead to the annihilation of punctuation and capital letters.

When I was a student teacher all those years ago we were sent out to teach primary school kids (this was meant as a slap down because we were in training for secondary teaching). It was, however, a salutary experience especially when we had to make up training aids to communicate English usage. I like to think that I have never mis-placed an apostrophe since preparing an aid in which a pirate declaimed "When I'm possessive I always have an apostrophe!" The pirate was depicted brandishing a sword in the shape of an apostrophe and standing with his foot firmly placed on an overflowing chest of treasure which he had taken possession of very forceably.

Casablanca

September 20. 2011 06:10 PM

Casablanca

Yea! Wayne Swan gets the gong for being the world's best treasurer.

Well deserved! Won't this get up the nose of certain Liberals.

Casablanca

September 20. 2011 06:26 PM

Casablanca

Another part of the refugee quandary is played out in the Bali Process. It gets a tangential mention every now and then by politicians but is never explained. The Bali Process in fact puts some context to Julia Gillard's push for a regional solution.

www.baliprocess.net/index.asp?pageID=2145831401

Also, please read the transcript of an ABC interview with Erika Feller. (I think that Lyn provided this a couple of weeks ago)

www.abc.net.au/.../3314682.htm?site=sydney

Feller is the UNHCR's Assistant High Commissioner for Protection - the highest ranking woman at the UNHCR. In the United Nations hierarchy she sits directly below the Secretary General. She is an international authority on refugee law and for several years she was the UNHCR's representative in Malaysia. She was closely involved with the Australia-Malaysia Agreement. She is also Australian, in fact a former Australian diplomat, who has watched the debate grow fierce and partisan in this country with great interest and concern.

.... we saw the Malaysia-Australia agreement in the context of our efforts to improve regional cooperation generally. And that's why it was particularly important for us that the agreement contain terms which would really strengthen protection in Malaysia, rather than the reverse.


Casablanca

September 20. 2011 06:27 PM

Tom of Melbourne

This is a site that just seeks to discuss the daily political tactics, Abbott v Gillard, Liberal v Labor.

You don’t attract Liberal/Abbott supporters, but ALP critics pop in occasionally. Usually to be met with a torrent of abuse.

Tom of Melbourne

September 20. 2011 06:30 PM

Casablanca

FS

Good one! TIEV Tony's Illegal Entry Vessel. It should be promulgated throughout the blogosphere forthwith.

Casablanca

September 20. 2011 06:52 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

Casablanca just told us, thankyou Casablanca:

Wayne Swan named Finance Minister of Year , The Australian
FEDERAL Treasurer Wayne Swan is about to become the second Australian MP in 29 years to be named Euromoney magazine's Finance Minister of the Year. uote]Wayne Swan named Finance Minister of Year [/quote],
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226142066426

Swan named Finance Minister of Year  , SMH,  6:14PM

Former Labor treasurer, and later prime minister, Paul Keating won the award in 1984 - and was later referred to in some quarters as the "world's greatest treasurer".
news.smh.com.au/.../...of-year-20110920-1kjbr.html

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 20. 2011 06:53 PM

psyclaw

In recent months I have spent much private thinking time contemplating just what it is about Abbott that troubles me so much.

It is more than the obvious traits of the man …… that he is a pugilist, dogma driven, inconsistent, disinterested in creating policy, and a fool. Minimal wisdom is required to discern these aspects.

Many conservative leaders over the years have possessed characteristics I did not favour, but I have never been troubled by them to the extent Abbott concerns me.

My perceptions are that Downer was a “born to rule” fool, Peacock was a peacock, Fraser (1970’s) was arrogant, McMahon was distant and bookish, Howard was blindly determined, and Nelson lacked impetus and gravitas. But these were to me bearable faults.

Abbott’s supporters claim that he is a powerful and hugely successful Opposition leader. Prima facie, there is evidence to support this.

He’s seen Rudd off, he’s reversed a 65% in favour of an ETS to 65% against; despite all contrary evidence (including the Peabody bid, and the huge ongoing investments in the Bowen basin as shown on Four Corners last night) he has almost the whole nation convinced that mining is on it’s knees; and he’s effectively influenced the polls to the extent Labor is at a critically low ebb.

All this while not addressing any development of alternative policies.

How has he done this? Why has he done this? Is it a good thing that he has done this? These questions are the crux of my concerns.

I think what makes Abbott different is that he has not at all adopted the conventional role of Opposition Leader.

Rather, he has redefined the role as one which goes the fool monty …... he doesn’t simply oppose, he doesn’t simply obstruct, he is on a mission to destroy. It is this destructive trait which dominates him and I think it is that that so worries me.

His appointment of Turnbull to his shadow role was “to destroy” the NBN. He pledges to destroy the ETS when he gains power. For a year now he has attempted to destroy question time, by his strategy of frequent points of order and MPIs. He is in the process of destroying the system of pairs. He has vociferously destroyed the reputations of scientists, economists, the Treasury, the Reserve Bank, the CSIRO, and the Australian Academy of Science, to name a few.

Right now he is attempting to destroy the expertise of DIMA, the credibility of the Malaysian government, and the credibility of numerous QCs who say that the HC decision applies to Nauru.

His modus operandi is nothing short of sociopathic ….he is quite unconcerned that he goes about vandalising and destroying public institutions and conventions. He is quite unconcerned about any precedents or bad examples he sets. He is unconcerned about his own reputation, or the nation’s. He totally lacks appropriate inhibition as to his words and actions. He lives in the ”now” and has no anxiety about the long term effects of his “now” conduct.

Any scruples about what he has done can be easily remitted in the confessional.

There are sufficient fools amongst the public such that knocking “authority” is a gratifying sport, whether authority is the government or any of the sources of expertise that he has targeted, as listed above. Indeed it might even be a widespread natural inclination in humans to knock authorities because we all enjoy the heightened fixes of adrenalin such pub talk can stimulate.

So the fact that his voyage of destruction has been effective is really no great feat by him. It requires no special expertise, except that needed to set one’s conscience aside.

Since the election last year the intensity of Abbott’s destructiveness has increased. I think that just as he was surprised to be given the leadership (mainly by Hockey’s faux pas “a conscience vote on the CPRS” in his pitch for leadership), he was also surprised to nearly obtain the Lodge.
I believe that his failure to do so was not merely a just-didn’t-quite–make-it event (“and I’ll get it next time”) but was because enough coalition voters agreed that he’s unsuitable.

Nevertheless he has had a sniff of the Lodge and as a crash through person, he has now strongly convinced himself that he can make it happen.

In short, as the PM said several times today in QT, his short term personal ambitions easily swamp any national interest.
The shame is that he has clearly modelled how such an approach can easily garner the gullible public opinion. However it is undoubtedly a preventer of logical, factual debate. It inhibits respect for others persons, other expertise and other points of view. It promotes vituperative polarisation. It does not support steady and stable and reasonable government.

As I have said many times before, hopefully the moderates in Abbott’s party will soon find the backbone to do what in their hearts must be done to rid the nation of any prospect of Abbott becoming PM. But I’m not holding my breath.

psyclaw

September 20. 2011 07:01 PM

lyn

Hi Psyclaw

Good on you and thankyou so much for sharing your thoughts with us, very much appreciated.  Now I will go up and read with gusto what you have said, I know I am going to agree with you.

In recent months I have spent much private thinking time contemplating just what it is about Abbott that troubles me so much.

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 20. 2011 07:25 PM

John

Hi, Lyn et al.

Ad, this is quite masterful, particularly the themes dealing with Abbott's sloganeering, lack of policy knowledge, poor understanding of how policy will affect farmers' families, and his inability to answer any questions which require thought & understanding.

I have this recurring mental image of Peter Reith wearing a balaclava, bovver-boots and accompanied by attack dogs. {shudder}

Mind you, journalists who interview Abbott either can't think to ask, or are prevented from asking, questions such as:

* Mr Abbott, Indonesia, Malaysia, New Guinea & Sri Lanka will not take the (refugee) boats back. Where, exactly will you send them?

* Will you again breach International Maritime Law, as you were party to during the Tampa Affair?

* Just how much of Australia's agricultural & rural land will be resumed to plant trees? How much will the compensation to farmers be, for their lost income? What will be the economic effect of food prices for Australian families? What effect will it have on food quality? On Australia's balance of trade when we need to import almost 90% of our food?

I suspect, though, that any journalist who asked such qns would be disinvited from future Abbott/Coalition media events! (it's been done - ask The Chaser team)

Smile

John

September 20. 2011 07:29 PM

Trevort

psyclaw

I am also convinced another part of Abbott's makeup that makes him appear manic is, more than an element of self loathing.  The man is obviously not a fool, his early dalliance with becoming a priest indicates to me that he must have contained some compassion for others.  That he has manged to suppress this to such an extent in pursuit of his now chosen career in politics is a contradiction.  That he is willing to sacrifice any form of informed debate in exchange for belligerence is in conflict with an intellect awarded a Rhodes scholarship.  The stream of consciousness that was Battle Lines also indicated he struggles with internal conflicts. This is also shown when he sometimes blurts truth, "I cant be trusted if it is not written down".  

All of these conflicts are being kept locked down by a very determined mind that has fixed its sights on the Lodge.  This mind will not allow any intrusion to deflect it from a strategy of "destroying the government" while a window of opportunity is open.  This explains his erratic, sometimes bizarre and destructive behavior.  

As long as the government remains in place and continues to function he will become increasingly erratic.  Once the CEF bills are passed and the window of opportunity begins to close it will be interesting.  This may be when his more sensible colleagues may decide, finally, to move back to policy formulation and put a less belligerent leader in charge.  

Should the prospect of moving in to the lodge be removed I believe he would then leave politics.  Maybe a Lathamesque piece of self harm could also follow.  Which gets back to my first point.  There is an element of self loathing which makes up Tony's character.

Trevort

September 20. 2011 08:01 PM

D Mick Weir

Casablanca,
thanks that's the one, found a link:
www.lynnetruss.com/.../index.asp?PageID=8

D Mick Weir

September 20. 2011 08:11 PM

psyclaw

Trevor
I think that your suggestion of self loathing is a possible dynamic at play. I also agree that Abbott will and is becoming more erratic as his goal is frustrated, and that this will come to a climax before too long as and if the government ties up the current legislation projects.

JG's statement in QT today that he is petrified that Malaysia might actually work, is related to this .... any government success reduces his Lodge probabilities and will increase his protest.

I think your statement that he once had compassion (which motivated his then priestly directions)is very generous. I have had some experience of the catholic church's recruitment processes and I can assure you that compassion is in no way a necessary requirement.

Have a look at former NSW Judge and former priest Chris Geraghty's books "The Priest Factory" and "Cassocks in the Wilderness" for more on this.

I doubt that compassion has ever been integral to his sociopathic persona, and this is quite "normal" in such personalities.

7.30 Report
What a pee weak effort by Uhlmann.

Here is Abbott arguing for boat turn arounds / boat towing to Indonesia to be reinstated, admitting that Indonesia is not a signatory to the UN Conventions, admitting that there never was any MOU with Indonesia about treating returnees OK, AND NOT ONCE did Ulmann ask him to explain how that is any different to the Malaysia option (which Abbott condemns on those very grounds).

Not only did Uhlmann not once question this, more importantly he also failed to hammer Abbott on it. It is such a glaring and blatant inconsistency and hypocrisy and so fundamental to the debate about changing the Migration Act that common sense, fair play, competent journalism, and national interest demanded that Abbott fess up to this.

Uhlmann is a joke.

psyclaw

September 20. 2011 08:17 PM

lyn

Hi John

Thankyou for your comment and for taking the time to drop in.

Talk about not asking hard questions, Chris Uhlmann on the
7.30 report just now was a classic example.  I am so surprised that Uhlmann didn't give Abbott a kiss at the end of the interview.

A few tweets below, we are not the only ones who think how we do:-

RT @geeksrulz: Too short too soft. KOB would've nailed him on boats RT @ennelay: Soft interview, @CUhlmann.… (cont) http://deck.ly/~evgGr
Where were the hard-hitting questions? #abc730

fiztigfiz

by SpaceKidette
@CameronBurge @latikambourke Yes it was a pre-recorded interview. Nice soft and squidgy. TA is lucky having someone ask him talking point qs


GhostOfPJKGhost of PJK
@cuhlmann #auspol would luv 2 see a split screen, question at a time, comparison between the JG and TA interviews. Expose both his faces!


GhostOfPJKGhost of PJK
RT @HenryIXL: @CUhlmann weak as piss with Abbott. Where were the constant interruptions as per ALP pollies. Pathetic. #auspol

WhitDylanMatt Bowden

Chris Uhlmann always has that loving twinkle in his eye when talking to Tony Abbott. #730


swearycatAlex
folks who asked why Uhlmann isn't calling Abbott out on bullshit - Chris is auditioning 4 useless lackey role in new satire #athomewithtony


@ernmalleyscatern malleys cat
Chris Uhlmann subjects Abbott to a grilling the likes of which not seen since the Auskick medal presentation at footy half time


CheersSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 20. 2011 08:21 PM

D Mick Weir

Another angle on Mr Abbott:
Here’s the real irony for me: Abbott is auditioning to become the coalition’s Rudd, a prime minister worse than the one he beat because he thought he could get away with being all things to all voters in opposition.
George Megalogenis  Tue 20 Sep 11 (10:49am)
blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/.../

D Mick Weir

September 20. 2011 09:03 PM

Ad astra


psyclaw
Thank you for your comprehensive and thoughtful assessment of the Abbott phenomenon.  You are right.  He is a pugilist, bent on destruction.  He has publically acknowledged the satisfaction he derived from flooring his opponents in the boxing ring at Oxford.  Now he seeks to floor his political opponents in the parliament and watch the blood flow.  His language is destructive, his intent is destruction.  He asked Malcolm Turnbull to demolish the NBN, and no doubt hoped Turnbull would be similarly demolished.

I see Trevor that you agree with psyclaw’s views.

Ten days after Abbott’s selection as Leader, I wrote The pugilistic politicial.  It parallels your views psyclaw, except that I had not at that time viewed him as psychopathic, but since then his behaviour is more and more bordering on that.

www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...c-politician.aspx

John
Thank you for your kind remarks.  Like you, I wish interviewers would nail Abbott down and insist on intelligible answers.  The best attempt at that was the famous Kerry O’Brien interview on the 7.30 Report where he hammered him about his completely contradictory statements, evoking the now classic response that he isn’t always accurate when speaking in the heat of the moment and that only scripted statements can be taken as gospel.

On 7.30 tonight Chris Uhlmann made an abortive attempt to nail Abbott on asylum policy, particularly turning back the boats, but each time a pointed question was posed, Abbott blithely turned it around with words to the effect ‘it worked last time, so it will work again’.  No matter what logical objections Uhlmann made, Abbott waved them away, and lacking the O’Brien mongrel, Uhlmann was neutralized, let Abbott off the hook, and retired without a whimper from an encounter in which he was never going to master Abbott.  Lyn’s tweets show that this view of that interview is widely held.

Cleverly, Abbott realizes that while perceptive viewers see though him, most of the viewing audience probably do not, and accept his answers unquestioningly.  It’s a sound strategy based on the Goebbels dictum.

Abbott is a clever political tactician, to date at least, but a dangerous candidate for prime ministership

Folks
I’m calling it a day.

Ad astra

September 20. 2011 09:12 PM

Feral Skeleton

   Well, Chris Uhlmann and Tony Abbott are both ex-Seminarians, and birds of a feather flock together.

Feral Skeleton

September 20. 2011 09:44 PM

jane

psyclaw @6.53pm, he couldn't have manipulated perceptions without the help he has had from the msm.

He has faced NO scrutiny whatever for any of his outrageous trashing of the Treasury, CSIRO, Reserve Bank and God knows how many other institutions.

And he is hell bent on destroying our relationship with Malaysia.

Just a few examples of his disgraceful systematic wrecking of our country. There can be no excusing it, but I fear that unless the compliant msm wakes up to itself, the economy and this country will be irretrievably damaged.

I hope this media enquiry happens very soon and the msm is made accountable for its current disgraceful complicity in the trashing of this country.

jane

September 20. 2011 09:50 PM

jane

psyclaw, I wonder if we flooded the ABC with complaints about Uhlmann's appalling performance, they'd give him the flick. Although from what other people have said, the complaints will be buried.

That's another organisation that needs a big shake up.

jane

September 20. 2011 10:21 PM

Acerbic Conehead

AA,
Just got around to reading your lead article and it's a cracker!
Don't you worry about that!
Who does that remind you of?  Another one whom the media sucked up to.
It really peeves me that questions like the ones you raise are never put to Abbott by the MSM.

Acerbic Conehead

September 20. 2011 10:35 PM

Ad astra reply

AC
What a generous compliment from the master of political satire. You are the first to mention 'don't you worry about that', a subliminal reference to Joh B-P.  Consciously or otherwise, Tony Abbott's interview strategy is strongly reminiscent of Joh's.  He may not use Joh's actual words, but he employs his dismissive technique with ruthless indifference.

Ad astra reply

September 21. 2011 12:49 AM

D Mick Weir

NormanK,
I have been working on design, layout and having trouble adding emoticons and still not getting it quite right but I have finally rambled on that topic
ausnitpicks.blogspot.com/.../...u-are-going-i.html

D Mick Weir

September 21. 2011 07:38 AM

lyn


TODAY’S LINKS


Finance-minister-of-the-year-2011-Swan-confounds-his-domestic-sceptics., Eric Ellis, Euromoney
The Careful stewardship of it’s Treasurer Wayne Swan, has played a key role in making Australia the best performing economy among
the world’s richer developed nations.
www.euromoney.com/.../...his-domestic-sceptics.htm

Reality vs Coalition World, Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery
Peter Costello, while he snubbed Keating and the award, is also known to have put his name forward under his time as treasurer,
but he was never awarded the gong.
ashghebranious.wordpress.com/.../

Swan named Finance Minister of Year, Video, Sky News
Federal Treasurer Wayne Swan is about to become the second Australian MP in 29 years to be named Euromoney
magazine's Finance Minister of the Year.
www.skynews.com.au/.../article.aspx

No wonder Wayne Swan named Finance Minister of the Year , The Finnigans, The Poll Bludger
Let me remind everyone of the beautiful set of numbers:1. Unemployment 5.3% 2. Inflation 3.6%3. Public Net Debts 7% GDP
4. RBA Interest rate 4.75%, compared to 6.75% when Howard was voted out5. For the whole of the 2010-2011 financial year,
the economy grew 1.8 per cent  
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1030320

Malaysian solution not the end of the world, Steve, Opinion Dominion
people hate asylum seekers arriving by boat, and expect a government to stop that, how do they reconcile that with support for on shore
processing .  I feel sorry for the Labor government trying to
work out how to keep the very confused public happy on this issue.
opiniondominion.blogspot.com/.../...-of-world.html

Politics is a Sisyphean ordeal, and Gillard’s ideal for it, Bernard Keane, Crikey
but as in a lot of other policy areas, the government’s fate is to doggedly pursue second-tier policies that
only have the single redeeming feature of not being nearly as bad as what their opponents are offering.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

At Home With Gerard, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison
the funniest thing suggested by Gerard’s column is a comic image of the veteran crankypants sitting at home angrily typing
away on his computer, chaotic piles of correspondence falling on his keyboard as his television torments him with the ABC
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

The Australian “…an ideologically determined failure of judgment of an extremely consequential kind” *, The Baffled Kettle
like it when the precious Burghers of Oz have their feathers ruffled and hyperventilation is a bonus.So doff of cap to Robert Manne.
You made me smile.
baffledkettle.wordpress.com/.../

The Oz bows out of Manne debate,Margaret Simmons, Crikey
journalists are disappearing up their own arseholes, it does seem that a proportion of the newspaper reading public might
follow them there. There seems to be great interest in the issues. The Wheeler Centre event is booked out.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Rudd’s happy little jar of vegemite baffles the world, The Power Index
The suspect little jar of brown stuff that saw Rudd questioned en route from Mexico to New York was actually his breakfast,
a supply of emergency Vegemite he'd stashed in his carry-on bag.
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../20110919425

Rudd loves it, the US hates it: Vegemite row blights UN trip, Independent Uk
President Barack Obama pronounced the "quasi-vegetable by-product paste that you smear on your toast for breakfast" to be
"horrible".However, fellow Twitter users have accused Mr Rudd of using the incident to enhance his image at home. \
www.independent.co.uk/.../...-un-trip-2357504.html

HE SAID. SHE SAID. I GIVE Up, Wendy Harmer, Hoopla
It’s slap-dash, lazy and mires the Australian electorate in gossip, slander and an impenetrable swamp of mis-information.
Julia says. Tony says. Julie says. Joe says. Bronwyn says. Barnaby says. Bob says. Bob (the other one in the hat) reckons…
http://thehoopla.com.au/said-said-give-up/

Australia’s Navy: a Senior Service Now in its Second Childhood?, Peter, Aussie Views News
This article looks at the background of the project and more generally at the navy itself. And concludes that if it is the “Senior Service”, the Navy is well into its second childhood
www.aussieviewsnews.com/.../

Limits of liberal critique- Murdoch, the media & the Manne Quarterly Essay, Left Flank, Dr tad
Murdoch and Mitchell’s strategy with The Australian has been to break from the niceties of liberalism and wage a hard Right campaign
for what they want. In this they have both reflected and encouraged similar trends within the political class,
left-flank.blogspot.com/.../...itique-murdoch.html

Hundred years war, David Horton, The Watermelon Blog
we see push back on progressive taxation, club opening hours, labelling of alcohol, national parks, workplace laws, public educationand health, voting rights, and so on. The rich officer class and their willing foot soldiers are trying to make sure
davidhortonsblog.com/2011/09/20/hundred-years-war/

Some online responses to NSW Nats Steve Cansdell's announcement that he had given false evidence, Clarence Girl, North Coast Voices
He said 'he might have been able to ride out the political storm, but did not it would have been honourable to do so.' Honourable???
After lies and deceit?And still gets to keep a parliamentary pension. Should hang his head in shame.
northcoastvoices.blogspot.com/.../...ts-steve.html

Conroy defends iiNet NBN prices, Rednai Le-May, Delimeter
Using Mr Fletcher’s own novel and bizarre calculations, this plan would cost only $0.30 per GB,” said Conroy. “Mr Fletcher is
amateurishly copying the dishonest tactics of Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull who will say and do anything in an
attempt to mislead the Australian public
delimiter.com.au/.../

Coalition would take away carbon tax compensation, David Twomey, Eco News
We’ve committed to removing the carbon tax. I don’t think it’s hard to introduce legislation to abolish the carbon tax.”Further pressed
on whether he thought it might be difficult to unwind the tax once it was legalised, he replied “No, I don’t.”
econews.com.au/.../

Pensions To Increase Today, Jenny Macklin, Australian Government
posted Tuesday, 20 September 2011

From today 3.4 million pensioners across Australia will receive an increase in their payments to help them meet increases in their household costs
www.alp.org.au/.../

House of Representatives – 20 September 2011, The Body Politic Australia
bodypoliticaus.wordpress.com/.../

lyn

September 21. 2011 07:42 AM

lyn

Hi Ad

The link to Wayne Swan's award Euromoney is broken, I am posting a new link.

www.euromoney.com/.../...is-domestic-sceptics.html

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 21. 2011 07:56 AM

lyn

Hi Again Ad

Grog has just been posted:

Ordure, Mr Speaker, ordure. Let's call the whole thing off
Greg Jericho, The Drum


we have a 90-minute period during which no legislation is debated or voted. We have 90 minutes of questions not answered. We have 90 minutes of issues proffered that are disconnected with the interests of voters. Ninety minutes of waste everyday.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2908630.html

CheersSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 21. 2011 08:11 AM

Feral Skeleton

  Sabra Lane was back to her sneering best this morning on AM while interviewing the Deputy Prime Minister.
   And, yes, I do feel a degree of chagrin for nominating Wayne Swan for the chopping block last week. Embarassed

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 08:58 AM

Feral Skeleton

lyn,
    Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to put up 'The Beautiful Set of Numbers' from The Finnigans that was posted on Poll Bludger last night. I almost did it myself, but I was too tired by then. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 08:59 AM

lyn

Hi Feral

What a miserable lot of people.  Did you see that Costello offered his name for "The World's Greatest Treasurer".

Congratulations to Wayne Swan, we are very proud of him. He really should have been given a truck load of gold medals.

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 21. 2011 09:05 AM

lyn

Hi Feral

  My Pleasure, what a great set of numbers.  Excellent that
The Finnigans  posted the link on twitter.

You are wearing yourself out, never mind at least you can.(fit and healthy you are)
I love being busy it's good for us.   Idle minds Idle thoughts.
they say don't they.

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 21. 2011 09:10 AM

Feral Skeleton

  Just thought I'd let everyone know the good news that I picked up yesterday that Ken Henry has been employed by Julia Gillard to work in her office as her Economic guru and advisor! Laughing

   ReCaptcha on the money again: 1st

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 09:19 AM

Feral Skeleton

   Hmm, I like that phrase, 'domestic-sceptics'. I think I might use it a bit more in the days and weeks and months and years ahead about you-know-who. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 09:39 AM

psyclaw

FS
What a mean spirited set of questions asked of Mr Swan on AM. But I think it was by Alexandra Kirk, not SL this time.

All the questions were based on the one premise "you didn't deserve it".

Mr Swan was extremely gracious in sharing the credit very widely, including to JWH. He was also very patient .... a less disciplined person like me would have told her to go to the far queue and whilst there to (vote) "forGough"

psyclaw

September 21. 2011 09:40 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINK updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Hi Lyn
I've posted the euromoney link you posted at 7.42 am and it works, but there is a short delay before the ad gives way to the article about Wayne Swan.  I've also included Greg Jericho's piece.

Ad astra

September 21. 2011 10:44 AM

Trevor

Just musing about the possibility of a couple of libs crossing the floor & voting for the govt's change to asylum laws.  I know it's dreamin but could you imagine the apoplexy that Tony would go in to?  

Trevor

September 21. 2011 11:34 AM

Ad astra

FS, Lyn, psyclaw
Yes, Alexandra Kirk was in her sneering mode this morning in her interview of Wayne Swan on an occasion when congratulations were in order for an award that has come to an Australian Treasurer for only the second time in our history.

The transcript is now available, from which I have derived extracts of her questions, along with some of Wayne Swan’s responses, which latter were in my view generous to all who have contributed to our economic situation over several decades.

The first question was barbed.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: How much is the award about you and how much is it about the rivers of gold that keep flowing into the Government's coffers and the rest of the economy from the resources boom?

After he praised all those who contributed to the success of the Government during the GFC, she asks:

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Are you happy to give Kevin Rudd a pat on the back because he oversaw the response to the global financial crisis?


When he said yes, she came back acerbically:

ALEXANDRA KIRK: You're happy to give the former Prime Minister a pat on the back now but the party didn't give him a pat on the back, did it. It dispatched him.


After Swan responded, she was not going to give up on cutting him down.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Euromoney notes that you inherited a sound economy and a resources boom so should some of the award go to the Howard Government and your predecessor Peter Costello?

Swan responded affirmatively by Kirk pressed on.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Euromoney has put you on par with Paul Keating, but he oversaw big economic reforms like floating the dollar, for example.  Your opposite number Joe Hockey says that your award is essentially for spending up big and running up big deficits.

Swan bats that away, but later, talking about the global economic situation, she asks:

ALEXANDRA KIRK: What preparations have you made for the possibility of the US and Eurozone falling back into recession - because this time around you don't have the buffer left to you by the Howard government?

Swan gave his response, which led to this question:

ALEXANDRA KIRK: So you say there's no need for a plan B?

WAYNE SWAN: Well, what I'm saying is that we have handled global instability successfully before. That's what this award from Euromoney magazine is all about.

 We have the capacity to act in the future should we need to, but I don't speculate about that…



ALEXANDRA KIRK: Why not?

Still unbelieving Kirk asks:

ALEXANDRA KIRK: And you say that's going to get Australia through the next difficult period?



WAYNE SWAN: What I am saying is that we are very well-placed to handle the worst that the world could throw at us.



ALEXANDRA KIRK: But spending to stimulate the economy is now no longer an option for the Government if things turn bad worldwide, is it?



WAYNE SWAN: Well, I'm not going to answer hypothetical questions…

If you don’t catch the insolence in this transcript of her questions, listen to her tone of voice in the audio clip that accompanies the transcript. http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2011/s3322158.htm

What beats me is that she feels she has the right to question the nation’s Federal Treasurer in such a disrespectful way, particularly just after he has received a prestigious award.

Ad astra

September 21. 2011 12:08 PM

Feral Skeleton

Ad Astra,
          I'm not looking forward to Question Time this afternoon when the Opposition will be in full flight against the Treasurer, putting his award down to everything but good management of the Australian Economy by a Labor government.
  I also think that the best counter to their predictable plaint that the economy is in such great shape due to China & Costello's Surplus, is that during Mining Boom #1 $350 Billion was frittered away by them on useless schemes, Pork Barrelling to buy votes and Middle Class Welfare giveaways(which was also used to buy votes). That they only left $20 Billion in the bank is an indictment of their fiscal recklessness actually.

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 12:16 PM

psyclaw

AA
Just listening to the Senate and heard that paragon of virtue Bernadi speaking at length about how bad Mr Swan is and how the Euromoney Award is not worth having.

I quickly turned him off when I got the gist of it. He is a snake, that one.

The example and licence Abbott gives this mob is barely believable. They simply lack class and decency.

psyclaw

September 21. 2011 12:39 PM

Feral Skeleton

psyclaw,
        You can just imagine how the Coalition would be crowing about the award and it's importance if it was one of theirs who had won it.
   As I said before, they are solid students of Framing 101.

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 12:53 PM

Patricia WA

Why, oh why, can I never get to watch Question Time live?  No matter how I try, allowing for EST,  or whatever links I follow.   ABC news sites and Parliamentary session times which are supposed to be live still don't seem to lead me there.

Is there a fail safe feed in?  

Patricia WA

September 21. 2011 01:07 PM

Jason

patricia WA,

http://webcast.aph.gov.au/livebroadcasting/

Jason

September 21. 2011 01:16 PM

Trevor

Patricia:  I am also in Perth and manage to catch QT from time to time.  It is on live at 12:00 WST on ABC24, so you need a HD digital tele.  On ABC News Radio 585 but I understand they do day about between the senate and the reps.  Not sure what will be on today but you should get something.  

Of course the equally rewarding activity may be to sit in a corner and poke a pencil in your eye for 90 mins.  That's what I feel like sometimes after watching QT

Trevor

September 21. 2011 01:31 PM

Casablanca

Patricia WA

I live in Canberra where we have access to TransACT, the best broadband until the NBN is operational.

Via my broadband provider I can watch digital TV transmissions. These include the HofR on Ch 510, the Senate on Ch 511 and Parliamentary Committees on Ch 512. Additionally, on free-to-air digital TV I can watch QT on ABC1 for 1hr or on ABC24 for the duration.

As I type I am watching/listening to the National Press Club Address with Senator Chris Evans on either ABC1 and ABC24.

The only other comment that I can make is that if you are still using an old CRT TV (cathode ray tube) then you will need a set-top box to gain access to the full range of digital free-to-air TV.

I question the sense of going the set-top box route when digital TVs are available for $200 or so. While a set-top box gives you digital transmission there will be a problem watching sub-titles because they generally fall entirely or partially outside the screen. This is due to the different size and shape of the screen.

Hope that this helps. I have a 22" GVA LCD-TV available from the Good Guys and a 26" Kogan LED-TV.

Casablanca

September 21. 2011 01:39 PM

Casablanca

Patricia WA meant to add the webcast address but see now that Jason has already provided that and Trevor has added some more advice from a WA perspective, as well as from a rationalist perspective (ie sit in a corner etc)

With a newer type flat screen digital screen you can also view your computer via the TV screen.

reCAPTURA: PTSD izerbui

Casablanca

September 21. 2011 01:40 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I'll be out for a few hours.

Ad astra

September 21. 2011 02:25 PM

Feral Skeleton

PatriciaWA,
            I watch Question Time on the Internet on my computer. I have broadband, ADSL2+ now, but even before when I had ADSL1 I was able to watch it. Just go to www.abc.net.au and then to ABCNews24 and you can click on Watch Now. I do that and Tweet about #qt at the same time. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 03:46 PM

Feral Skeleton

   Wise words from Malcolm Mackerras:
www.canberratimes.com.au/.../2299024.aspx

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 04:37 PM

Sir Ian Crisp


Thanks, I have reset my Dictionary to English Australian.  Hopefully I will now not annoy DMW any more with ‘zees’.

AA.


You do know how to use a dictionary. And there you were pretending you were confused by the words I sometimes use. Very poor form old boy.

Sir Ian Crisp

September 21. 2011 05:13 PM

Michael

This article:

www.zdnet.com.au/...t-on-nbn-pricing-339322702.htm

absolutely demolishes the Liberal's (and Shadowman Turnbull's) crap utterances about the cost and effectiveness of the NBN.

And wondrously, if you remove "NBN" references throughout the article and slip into their place references to ANY (and every) other Coalition espoused policy, the logic of the arguments here demolish every one of them, too!

Or skip the article, and take my word for what it lays out clear as day - Coalition 'policy' and policy spokesvolks stand exposed as bs and bs artists of the first order.

Michael

September 21. 2011 05:16 PM

Feral Skeleton

Michael,
        There is one song that reminds me of no one so much as the Opposition:
Talking Heads 'Stop Making Sense'. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 05:44 PM

Feral Skeleton

  The latest from Mr Denmore, hot off the keyboard:

   thefailedestate.blogspot.com/.../secret-sauce.html

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 05:44 PM

Patricia WA

FS - great article by MM in the Canberra Times, but the comments remind one that someone somewhere has a group of bloggers ready to leap into action the minute something anti-Coalition/pro-Govt appears.   It defies logic that Malcolm Mackerras would be so overwhelmingly attacked within hours of that article appearing.

Astro turfing, I guess, literally at grass roots level.

Patricia WA

September 21. 2011 05:52 PM

Feral Skeleton

PatriciaWA,
           Yes, I know what you mean. However I console myself that it's just Cory Bernardi's army of Menzies House trolls and Grey Nomads of No Consequence, otherwise known as Self-Funded Retirees, with more time and money on their hands, than sense.
  It does go to another subject that I wrote about recently, that of 'Framing'. Did you notice how quickly Joe Hockey was out of the blocks in parliament last night blowing hard and bloviating all over the place in an attempt to take the shine off the Treasurer's award? Followed up atter of Public Importance debate that he had scheduled for this afternoon after Question Time to attempt to ram home the point of what dire straits the economy is in, according to the Opposition.
  Also, just recently, Annabel Crabb was admonished on Twitter for parrotting the lies about the BER and the HIP that the Opposition and their media mouthpieces lie about constantly.
  The truth, and facts, have gone out the window since Tony Abbott took over as Opposition Leader. Now it's just 'Anything Goes' in the pursuit of power.

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 05:54 PM

Feral Skeleton

PatriciaWA,
           You might be interested in reading this then:

   http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/44982.html

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 05:55 PM

2353

Michael,

Brilliant article - thanks for posting it.

I received the annual "economic outlook" from one of the investment firms I have a small amount in today.  They quote Standard & Poors "Gross governmental debt as a percentage of GDP 2010" for a number of First World countries.  Included are:
Japan 198%
Italy 131%
USA 98%
Canada 84%
EU (combined) 60%
Australia 22%
China 18%

Next time someone suggests cutting spending works to maintain a country - you might like to drag these figures out.

2353

September 21. 2011 06:06 PM

Ad astra

Sir Ian
It's a spelling 'dictionary' on the computer that checks I've got the spelling right.  A clue to the meaning of a word comes from the synonyms that the spell-checker provides, and it also provides a dictionary definition if required.  

I thought it worked only on what I was typing on Word, but when I tried it on words in the comments people post, to my surprise and delight, up came the meaning when I clicked on the word and from the pop up menu clicked on 'Look up...'.  So your admonishment has enabled me to find something I did not know existed.  Thank you; from now on when you use an unusual word, I will be able to quickly ascertain its meaning from my computer rather than my well-thumbed Oxford Dictionary.

Ad astra

September 21. 2011 06:06 PM

Feral Skeleton

PWA,
    Here's another thoughtful piece from the co-author of the Pandagon blog:

   www.alternet.org/.../what_awful_reality_tv_and_suburban_living_have_to_do_with_the_tea_partys_lack_of_empathy

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 08:40 PM

Feral Skeleton

   Yep, 6.06pm is still the last post...by me!?!

Feral Skeleton

September 21. 2011 08:46 PM

TalkTurkey

In Sydney Tpwn tonight!

Ad astra said to AC
You are the first to mention 'don't you worry about that', a subliminal reference to Joh B-P.

Hey Ad I've been saying DWYWAT for ages! What you think that mean eh?

Looking out from a 10th storey de luxe Potts Pointapartment belonging to an old Labor freind of mine, lookingout on a 360-degree wonderful night view of EVERYTHING to see in central Sydney  . . . magical sight.

Congratulations Wayne Swan and the Government.

Coalons can stick that up theirs. Smile

On to the NSW Central Coast manana.

TalkTurkey

September 21. 2011 09:03 PM

TalkTurkey

Not DWYWAT, DYWAT !

TalkTurkey

September 21. 2011 10:30 PM

NormanK

We've been wondering for quite some time just how long this particular manifestation of the Liberal Party can get away with blatant lies - the latest being the deliberate fabrication of false  figures which are meant to represent modelling of the impact of the Clean Energy Bills on transport prices. It's a good thing that we haven't been holding our breaths because it would appear that any sustained scrutiny of their litany of lies is not going to be forthcoming any time soon.

Now I've turned to wondering how long this same group can get away with acts of denial. The advice of the Solicitor General with regard to the new interpretations of the Migration Act by the High Court either didn't happen or doesn't apply to them or is deliberately partisan. The costings generated by the Department of Immigration about the cost of re-opening and maintaining Nauru didn't happen or doesn't apply to the Liberals or is deliberately partisan. Treasury costings, the Department of Climate Change projected costings of the DAP, the efficacy of detention on Nauru as a deterrent, Indonesia rejecting outright the possibility of Australia turning a boat back in their direction and the list goes on and on. Surely somewhere in amongst all of this the disengaged voter is going to see a pattern.

No more glaring example is required than Joe Hockey's response in parliament today to the announcement that Wayne Swan has been recognised for a top award. "Should I congratulate the Treasurer blah blah blah worst treasurer ever blah blah blah turned a surplus into a deficit blah blah blah?" bellowed Hockey in parliament today. The average viewer would see a prestigious organisation bestowing its top annual award on an Australian citizen and Mr Hockey has nothing but scorn for the award and its recipient.


But coalition treasury spokesman Joe Hockey said it was hard to take the award seriously.
"Mr Swan has racked up $154 billion of deficits, he's yet to deliver a budget surplus and has turned $45 billion in the bank into a $110-billion-dollar credit card bill," he said in the statement.
"The real recipient of this award should be Peter Costello, who laid the groundwork for Wayne Swan.
"If it wasn't for the heavy lifting done by the previous government, the Australian economy wouldn't be in the position it's in today."


www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-e6frf7ko-1226142325323

So obviously Euromoney got it wrong.
Which of the two sources is more credible - a magazine that eats and sleeps global economics or the political opponent of the winner.
If I were a Liberal supporter I would have cringed today to see such petulant and unsporting behaviour. It's not even as though Hockey lost out to Swan on a close points decision such as you might see in a boxing match. There is no genuine 'we was robbed' complaint that can be made. Realistically, Swan's award is not a reflection on Costello (for all we know he may have been runner-up six years running - a record in itself) any more than Sally Pearson's Championship title is a reflection on 100 metre hurdlers that have come before her. Costello never faced a GFC so we have no way of knowing how he might have performed. If Swan had not been forced to deal with the GFC and its aftermath would he have shone so brightly? We'll never know.

It is extremely embarrassing that the Coalition could not put aside politics for just long enough to congratulate a colleague for his success. Instead they deny the award has any merit and even if it did, Swan doesn't deserve it.
Are we in for another fruitless wait or will people start to see that every single thing that doesn't suit the Coalition's view of the world is being denied like an alcoholic who says "I don't have a problem" or a battered wife who insists "he's not like this all the time". Surely to goodness we won't see two more years of this denial of reality without some comeuppance from the electorate.

NormanK

September 21. 2011 11:08 PM

D Mick Weir

NK,
I've been out all day. Just got in.
The link from my name below works and I just checked from another computer seemed ok

also reposted below
ausnitpicks.blogspot.com/.../...u-are-going-i.html

btw not much new in latest in some ways collecting thoughts together Smile

D Mick Weir

September 21. 2011 11:14 PM

Jason

Normank,
       But the "coalition" have none other than George Brandis SC, as the font of all things legal.
In fact I don't know why we bother with the "high court" or even in "sloppy Joe's" case the treasury,or much else! when we have so many experts in the media and on shock jock radio, that could in a minute solve all our problems yet seem unable.

I hear YA brother!

Jason

September 21. 2011 11:19 PM

NormanK

I'm glad that I wrote the above comment before I watched Lateline and saw the excerpts of the opposition's attack on the Euromoney award or I may have resorted to ungentlemanly language.
Not content with being disparaging of Swan and the award itself, they lined up to heap scorn on the host countries of previous recipients. What a despicable mob.

Is someone keeping a list of countries they have insulted in the last twelve months?
Japan - New Zealand is 'family' therefore their earthquake evokes more emotion from us and therefore by inference Japan is an outsider who doesn't get similar sympathy.
Malaysia - barbarians by all accounts and not to be taken at their word.
Indonesia, Brazil and all of the other shonky countries who will try to sell us dodgy carbon credits, Russia, the European Union. My memory fails me.

Is there nothing or no one that they won't belittle in order to advance their cause by another millimetre? This is seriously embarrassing.

NormanK

September 21. 2011 11:38 PM

D Mick Weir

NormanK,
I have missed most of the tele news, lateline etc and I don't feel any less informed Smile
have caught up with comments here and a few pieces elsewher and got the gist of the day.

Maybe Mr Denmore is right:

My advice is to ignore news out of Canberra completely. Most of it is noise. Most of it is self-serving tosh. And most of it bears little resemblance to what is actually going on in the world. So read more widely, go straight to the source and treat with a large handful of salt what you see and read in the local media. It’ll save you an awful lot of grief and it will give  you the necessary perspective that good journalism is supposed to provide

The again I have found The Monthly has some good stuff try these
www.themonthly.com.au/ten-years-after-tampa-comment-peter-mares-3641
www.themonthly.com.au/comment-political-leadership-australia-don-watson-3642

caution with this one for some it is too much AC not enough DC Tong
www.themonthly.com.au/why-one-year-after-election-voters-still-don-t-know-who-gillard-prime-minister-interrupted-annabel-c

Long form journalism appeals to me

D Mick Weir

September 21. 2011 11:41 PM

NormanK

Jason
I rest my case.

Opposition addresses Malaysia's concerns over its image in asylum-seeker debate
by James Massola

THE federal opposition has contacted senior Malaysian officials to address growing concerns in Kuala Lumpur over Tony Abbott's portrayal of the nation during the offshore processing debate.

It is understood Malaysia is deeply offended at the Opposition Leader's depiction of the country, believing he had portrayed it as a "repressive regime practising an extreme version of Shariah law" with respect to its treatment of refugees.

Opposition foreign affairs spokeswoman Julie Bishop told The Australian Online she had contacted Malaysian High Commissioner Dato' Salman Ahmad to reassure him of the Coalition's views on the strength of the Australian-Malaysian relationship.

*****************************************

Ms Bishop said she was concerned Labor had "dragged" Malaysia into the debate, assuring it the refugee swap deal would withstand judicial scrutiny.

The opposition has repeatedly questioned Malaysia's human rights credentials, highlighting the fact that nearly 30,000 foreigners had been caned for immigration offences there between 2005 and 2010.

Ms Bishop said the Coalition had been very careful to only use figures provided by Malaysia itself.

"We are careful to point out that this is something we wouldn't embrace.

"It's like capital punishment in the United States or Indonesia, we disagree with that."

But a senior Malaysian source told The Australian Online those caned were illegal immigrants, saying no bona fide refugees had ever been caned.

The diplomatic source said there were sufficient protections in the refugee swap agreement to ensure the wellbeing of all asylum-seekers that would have been relocated to
(sic) Australia under the agreement.

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226142776243

Replete with a fetching photo of Julie (Venus Flytrap) Bishop whispering sweet nothings in the House.

NormanK

September 22. 2011 02:26 AM

D Mick Weir

Good Morning Swordsfolk,
September 22nd is an important date for many reasons. Some of them are personal that I won't go into (no it is not my birthday though for roundball footy fans it is Harry Kewell's birthday).

It is the spring equinox which has meaning for some including that it is the true start of spring.

Sixty years ago today the Australian people showed some extraordinary common sense. The said NO to the Menzies led Liberal/Country Party Coalition government. Some regard this vote as a landmark point in our democracy.

September 22nd 1951 was the day that the people voted down constitutional amendments that would have enabled the Menzies government to outlaw the Communist Party  and introduce other laws to punish people for their beliefs.

Frank Bongiorno @ Inside Story tells part of the story and draws some interesting parallels with current political events.

Amid the panic, a sense of purpose  inside.org.au/amid-the-panic-a-sense-of-purpose/

D Mick Weir

September 22. 2011 03:57 AM

Patricia WA

Damn you, DMW!  Just when I was about to go to bed and you get me reading again!   I left this comment because I thought Bongiorno was wanting the PM to be a good girl and toe the line, listen to the judges.  Did I get that right?

I enjoyed reading this article and saw some interesting historical analogies, but does Frank Bongiorno really believe that it is our Prime Minister who is placing advantage above principle and has no sense of purpose other than an obsession with each evening’s six o’clock news?

I'd say that description better fits the Leader of the Opposition.

And for me, Julia Gillard is more like the Chifley you describe who though having the usual politician's instinct for survival  is willing to take risks.  Does anyone doubt that right now she is backing her own judgement about something she, together with her Minister for Immigration, thinks is "worth fighting for, even in the face of overwhelming media and public opposition."

Patricia WA

September 22. 2011 07:24 AM

lyn





TODAY’S LINKS



The Secret Sauce , Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate
My advice is to ignore news out of Canberra completely. Most of it is noise. Most of it is self-serving tosh. And most of it bears
little resemblance to what is actually going on in the world. So read more widely, go straight to the source
thefailedestate.blogspot.com/.../secret-sauce.html

Tough but necessary, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless
He thinks you have to be a tough-guy to make it in this world, and that tough-guy behaviour doesn't involve careful thought and
determination but lots of big talk and that funny kind of waddle Tony Abbott has
http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/

Coalition lead: big but soft, Andrew Elder, The Drum
Gillard has been beaten so hard and so often it is a wonder that she gets out of bed every morning. Everything Abbott says and
does conveys the idea that he is in no way an underdog. It also conveys the idea of pride going before a fall.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2909940.html

One stunt too far Mr Abbott. One stunt too far. Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery
an act to incite public violence and their political party disbanded. One stunt too far Tony. You did this. You created and
incited violence. You sir, are an alleged terrorist.
ashghebranious.wordpress.com/.../

AND THE WINNER IS, World’s luckiest treasurer? , Paul Barry, The Power Index
Swan and Kevin Rudd certainly did do the right things back in 2008 when the GFC struck, taking quick and decisive action to
stimulate the economy and protect the banking system. So perhaps all those people who banged on about the disastrous
BER scheme will now belt up
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../20110920431

PLAYING IN DANGEROUS, Alan Kennedy, The Hoopla
The rednecks of talkback radio and their call-in gibberers will not be satisfied until they see people being shot in the water. They
are beyond any normal decency and should be treated as such. Instead, we are seeing them shaping the debate and all semblance
http://thehoopla.com.au/go/?

Super reform to benefit workers: Shorten, SBS
Financial Services and Superannuation Minister Bill Shorten released the final details of the government's package on Wednesday, saying
it would encourage workers to save more for retirement and help reduce super fund member fees
www.sbs.com.au/.../Super-reform-to-benefit-workers:-Shorten

Cut the ABC's Funding, Web Diary
What should have happened is that Tony Abbot should have stood up and denounced the show. After all, that is what being the Leader of a Nation is about. Alas,that is not Tony. I did have hopes for Malcolm Turnbull. But he too has failed
http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/3206

Under Our Stars and Cross: What Does the Australian Flag Represent?, The Body Politic Australia
The pursuing uproar has seen outraged Coalition MPs attack the program yesterday and calls for the national broadcaster’s funding to
be cut. One Nationals MP said the sex scene was ‘the last straw‘.
bodypoliticaus.wordpress.com/.../

Liberal-Nationals again say they can scrap carbon scheme, David Twomey, Eco News
Mr Abbott claimed that while the government had been “very sneaky” in structuring the complicated scheme, he believed there
were ways to take it apart.“During the fixed-price phase of the carbon tax (from 2012 to 2015) I think we can close it down,
econews.com.au/.../

How to build consensus on climate change action, Dr Ted Christie, Independent Australia
The “asbestos exposure history” must not be allowed to repeat for climate science and global warming. Failure to act now may mean that the risk of human-induced global warming may become irreversible in the future
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

A Simple NBN Maths Lesson, Michael Wyres
Of course, NBN Co has to spend some of the money maintaining the network, and paying its employees –so it’s not “profit”) – but $1.728b is a lot of money.Throw in the revenue from CVC, and people buying more than the basic service
michaelwyres.com/.../

Libs' credibility spent on NBN pricing, David Braue, ZNet
We now know that, despite years of Opposition bleating that the NBN was going to bleed us dry, NBN services will cost between $34.50 and $99.95 per month.That is so similar to current ADSL2+ pricing that it casts a pallor over the Liberal Party's entire strategy of blasting the NBN as a high-priced white elephant.
www.zdnet.com.au/...t-on-nbn-pricing-339322702.htm

Abbott at war with lib hardliners | SMH | #Auspol #Workchoices, Darin Sullivan, The Left Hack
The agreements became politically poisonous when WorkChoices stripped away the safety net and it has long been speculated
that Mr Abbott would bring back a version of the pre-WorkChoices agreements.
darinsullivan.wordpress.com/.../

Nauru or Malaysia? Offshore or Onshore? The debate continues, Australian Politics TV
australianpoliticstv.org/.../

Onshore processing: what it means for asylum seekers, Maria O'Sullivan, The Conversation
The High Court has ruled its Malaysia Solution invalid and the Coalition has indicated it will not support moves to amend the Migration Act inorder to make the offshore processing of asylum seekers possible.
theconversation.edu.au/onshore-processing-what-it-means-for-asylum-seekers-3478

Liberals: 2011 Dubious Achievement Awards: Wayne Swan, Australian Politics TV
It hasn’t taken the Liberal Party very long to put up a video sledging the Treasurer for being named the world’s best treasurer.
It beggars belief that even on such an issue as this, the Liberal Party is all too quick to be negative.
australianpoliticstv.org/.../liberals-2011-achievem_source=feedburner&utm_medium=an+%29

SMITH SACKED- 2UE shock-jock uses Labor’s laws to fight for his rights at work, Vex news
The lefty newspaper publisher that owns a conservative-leaning talk-radio network also employs ex-One Nation MP David Oldfield, so it seemsmore likely he’s having trouble taking orders from those who sign-off on his big salary.
www.vexnews.com/.../

And another thing…!, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison
So will Paul come to the debate now? Or did Janet just want to have the last word in an argument wiser heads have now realised
is just going to continue to embarrass them?
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

News Limited set to re-brand to News Australia, The Spy  Report
After 88 years of being named News Limited, the company will rebrand to News Australia, according to a leaked document that
Crikey had obtained. Three agencies have been approached to pitch on the re-branding, which is codenamed "Project Darwin"
www.mediaspy.org/.../?utm_mpaign=ource=

Newspapers:-

Robert Manne denies stance on government policy on asylum-seekers, The Australian
Cater asked Manne if this was an issue where "politics trumps morals".Manne replied: "Sometimes that's true there's a tension
between politics and morals."Hear Manne at the Byron Bay Writers Festival here
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg996-1226142924365

Opposition walks into Labor trap over asylum policy, MALCOLM MACKERRAS, Canberra Times
So Labor has made an offer to Abbott which he should have accepted but historians will record that he and his party decided
to end offshore processing in the spring of 2011. A handful of ''small l'' Liberal MPs will be glad.
www.canberratimes.com.au/.../2299024.aspx

Australian media “inquiry” designed to protect Murdoch empire, Mike Head,World Socialist Website
Just as in Britain, where every institution of the capitalist state—the major parties, the government, parliament, the courts, the police—is implicated,any genuine investigation into News Limited would expose a network of patronage and privilege.
www.wsws.org/articles/2011/sep2011/medi-s20.shtml

lyn

September 22. 2011 08:55 AM

nasking

Well done Ad astra.

BTW,
money makes the world go 'round...ask the thugs:  

The mayor is making it clear that he has friends in high places–and that they’re on his side. Emanuel’s push for the immediate addition of 90 minutes to the school day at Chicago elementary schools was the focus of a high-profile visit to the city September 5 by Education Secretary Arne Duncan, who endorsed the mayor’s effort. Chicago’s school day is a “badge of shame,” Duncan said at the event.

Duncan didn’t seem to think it was shameful for Emanuel to offer teachers a bonus of about 2 percent of the average teacher’s annual pay–for a workday that would be 29 percent longer. Nor did it trouble him that Emanuel’s handpicked school board voted in June to rescind the 4 percent raise contractually due to all teachers. The board justified the canceled raise as necessary to close a budget deficit that Chicago Public Schools (CPS) claimed was $720 million. Then it voted to increase the pay of Schools CEO Jean-Claude Brizard and other top CPS officials.

But Duncan, in town as part of the Department of Education’s “Back to School” tour, wasn’t the only heavy hitter on stage at a highly publicized panel discussion at a Chicago high school.

Dick Durbin, the second-ranking Democratic leader in the U.S. Senate, was in the audience, and on stage with Emanuel and Duncan was Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn. So was Robin Steans, who had a stint as a public school teacher before using her family’s inherited wealth to run Advance Illinois, a corporate-driven “school reform” outfit on a mission to crush teachers’ unions.

All the panelists sang the praises of Senate Bill (SB) 7, the Illinois “school reform” legislation passed earlier this year. With Emanuel twisting arms in the state capital of Springfield and Steans dangling the prospect of big campaign contributions, the legislature approved SB7, which weakened teacher tenure, placed severe limits on the CTU’s right to strike and allowed CPS to impose a longer school day in the 2012-2013 school year, leaving the question of compensation for the extra time to contract negotiations.

CTU President Karen Lewis initially backed SB7, but the union’s executive board and House of Delegates reversed that decision. Lewis said that last-minute changes had been made to the bill without her knowledge.

Then Jonah Edelman, the boss of Stand for Children, another well-funded pro-corporate “reform” outfit, was caught on video  bragging about how SB7 was intended from the beginning to cripple the CTU.

* * *

BUT EMANUEL couldn’t wait until next year to implement the longer day. The mayor and Chicago Schools CEO Jean-Claude Brizard launched a “longer school day pioneer” program that not only dangled a bonus in front of elementary school teachers, but also promised $150,000 to any school that adopted the plan immediately.

As of September 19, teachers at just nine of the city’s nearly 500 elementary schools had voted to waive the portion of the union contract that governs the school day.

The union responded to Emanuel and Blizard’s “pioneer” plan by pointing out that the bonus pay was an insult added to the injury of the canceled raises. As Karen Lewis pointed out in a statement:

For a teacher earning $57,000 a year, the increase would mean a mere $3.41 an hour, less than minimum wage. Teachers on average already work 21 hours more than they are paid for; we grade papers, create lesson plans, confer with parents and counsel our students. There will be little time for us to do any of that.

Emanuel’s aim was to try to humiliate the CTU on the eve of contract negotiations by sending a message that the union’s new reform leadership, which swept into office in an election last year, couldn’t sway the rank and file.


more here:

www.counterpunch.org/.../

("War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothin'!")

N'

nasking

September 22. 2011 09:07 AM

nasking

I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its stupidity.

DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER, speech, Jan. 10, 1946

Probably, no nation is rich enough to pay for both war and civilization. We must make our choice; we cannot have both.

~Abraham Flexner

As for stupidity:

Who will rule the Middle East?

No one can rule (let alone reformat) the region after the defeat of Arab nationalism unless he enjoys popular support. People should like their political direction. And there is no better puller in the Middle East, from Athens to Cairo, than offering  fight to the Jewish invader. The reason is not some kind of prejudice or a mythical anti-Semitism, but rather, a pervasive love for the Holy Land, and its native inhabitants so terribly mistreated by the Zionists. Proverbs (30:22) explains: “Under [this] the earth trembles: a servant who becomes a king”; and an Israeli writer has argued that this applies to the Jews in his country. Used to serving other rulers, they have not developed sufficient charity, compassion and moderation, they mistreat the natives cruelly and unfairly, and as a result, they succeed only in uniting the Middle East in rejection of their enterprise.

The acid test for a ruler in the Middle East is his attitude towards the Holy Land . Our people are concerned with its fate more than they are concerned with elusive democracy and liberalism — more than they are interested in Facebook and Twitter. In February we wrote: this is the end of the Israeli-American order established by the Camp David Accords. Now we begin to see a new order coming.

Whoever wants to rule the region should think of Palestine. Moreover, demonstrating this is the prerequisite for a leadership bid. It was done by Turkey: After long wait, the Erdogan government made a few striking moves: it sent the Israeli ambassador  packing, it stopped military cooperation with and military purchases from Israel, and Erdogan promised to come in person to Gaza on board of his navy’s protective fleet. The results were impressive: upon his visit in Cairo, this heir to the Sultan was called “a new Saladin”, after the Sultan who defeated the Crusaders on the battlefield of Kurun al Hattin above the Sea of Galilee in 1187. He was treated by the people as a liberator and savior. If this was the reward for his words, what will be his reward for his deeds?

Egypt is ripe for a new revolution: Egyptians tore down the wall around the Israeli embassy and stormed the building. They expressed dissatisfaction with the ruling military junta for its lack of action and for its continuation of Mubarak’s policies sine Mubarak. Indeed the Egyptians have precious little to show for their February uprising and its thousand martyrs. General Tantawi had been chosen by Mubarak himself to become his successor years ago. The political regime has not changed, elections are being postponed, the Gaza blockade goes on, and even the killing of Egyptian soldiers by Israelis did not disrupt normalcy.

Turkey has the legitimacy to provide the new order, call it a Caliphate, for Caliphate is another name for the Ottoman Empire, the equivalent of the EC or of NAFTA. Istanbul (Constantinople) was the last seat of the Caliphate till WWI, and the natural capital of the Middle East since the fourth century. The end of violently secular Kemalism and the rise of the Islamic AKP has opened gates for Turkey’s bid for the resurrection of the Caliphate. Turkey is a natural leader, and in case Syria should fall apart, Turkey will be able to reintegrate it within the Caliphate.

Second force

But Turks are not the only claimants. A new force has arisen meanwhile in the Middle East. It is led by the Saudis and their close allies, including Qatar. They have plenty of money, and they have a most powerful media tool, al Jazeera. They are fervent Muslims, strictly anti-socialist, and they plan to reformat the region according to their tastes. They are the main beneficiaries of the NATO attack on Libya, and they have invested a lot of resources in the destabilization of Syria. Until recently, they remained almost invisible and did not show their hand. It is the issue of Palestine that brought them out into the light.

Prince Turki al Faisal wrote in the NY Times: Saudi Arabia will part with the US if it vetoes the Palestinian bid. This is not only done out of sympathy for the people of Palestine, but is also an apparent bid for regional supremacy. The Saudis are contesting for the crown of the Caliphate, no less — they want it for themselves. To this end, they have spent a lot of money over a long period of time; they destroyed Qaddafi and are undermining Assad. They have good working relations with the Turkish AKP; Erdogan and Gul are familiar with the Saudis, spent some time in their country and benefited from Saudi support. If the Saudis want to be top dogs, however, they are going to have to put more effort into Palestine.

Probably Turkey is the more realistic claimant: it is a big, prosperous, modern country; its orthodox Islam has a strong touch of Sufism (think of Rumi, the greatest Sufi poet and saint adored by the Turks). Saudis with their Protestant-Puritan branch of Islam (Salafist or Wahhabist) have less chance to succeed. Historically, the holy cities of Mecca and Medina were unable to keep the seat of Caliph to themselves; probably they will fail this time, too, unless they are willing to moderate their goals and play second fiddle to Turkey.


www.counterpunch.org/2011/09/21/the-arab-autumn/

There is nothing like sucking on the teat of myth, raising heroes from the dead...feeding into the fears of the many...to benefit the stories of the fear & war-mongers...and pretending to be saviours rather than delusional profiteers & limelight cravers...to ensure insanity prevails...

and rationalism dies in the inferno of self-perpetuated apocalypse.

N'

nasking

September 22. 2011 09:19 AM

nasking

Indeed:

September 21, 2011
9They Should Have Done the Math
The Costs of the Great War on Terror
by VIJAY PRASHAD

During the Clinton years, the neoconservatives were out of power and were thirsting to return. In exile, the foreign policy wing of the neoconservatives created the Project for a New American Century (1997-2006). In September 2000, they released a report, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”, a testosterone-laden argument for increasing military spending and using the massive U.S. military power to capture political and physical resources around the world. The American Century or Pax Americana was in threat of being undermined by global government (the United Nations and the World Trade Organisation) and the emergence of new powers (namely, China). To thwart the loss of power, the project urged the government to build up a military and construct a foreign policy to spread American values around the planet.

Bush’s spatial and temporal extension of GWOT derived its theory from the project (he hired most of its leaders into his administration). There was to be no attempt at a police investigation and a global police action to secure the criminals. The point was now to use 9/11 for maximum effect, to hastily dispatch the Taliban in Afghanistan and then to rush into war with Iraq. Today, the U.S. is at war from the Atlas Mountains to the Hindu Kush, with its navy and air force, its special forces and drones in action or poised to act. For these missions, the U.S. enlisted a willing North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) command, which had found its post-Cold War legs already in the Kosovo War (1999). NATO would be thrust into the forefront in Afghanistan, and later in Libya, but it would also be the spear to irritate Russian ambitions in Eastern Europe and in the Black Sea region.

Conservative estimates of the war dead in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan alone amount close to 150,000, with the rough total of refugees created by these wars now upwards of 7.8 million. There is little indication that the U.S. and NATO plan to draw down their involvement in this region, even as they might reduce their own deployment of troops. The bases and the foreign policy objectives will stifle the ability of countries such as Afghanistan and Iraq to develop their own societies, which means that Afghan and Iraqi security services will be pledged to conduct the security work that approximates the extension of American power. Much of this is already taking place in these two countries, where the continual social corrosion has taken on the character of a civil war (with the governments in both countries acting as proxies for U.S. global ambitions).

The Project for a New American Century did not fully think through its implications. It assumed that by military force itself the U.S. would be able to extend its power into a New American Century. What it did not consider was the massive costs of this endeavor. Bush sent his troops into battle, but could not find a sustainable way to conduct these wars. Anti-tax rhetoric is the analgesic of the domestic neoconservatives. Their agenda contradicted those of the foreign policy neoconservatives. The domestics could not countenance a rise in taxes to pay for the wars. In fact, they won the right to cut taxes. This meant that the U.S. had to borrow massively to fund the expansion of its military and its use of that military. Between September 11, 2001, and May 2011, the National Priorities Project shows, the U.S. exchequer spent $7.6 trillion in defense and homeland security. This figure is bewildering. The combination of this military spending, the Bush cuts on taxes for the wealthy, the bursting of the asset bubbles (real estate prices) as well as the tremors in Wall Street’s financial casino set the U.S. Treasury into a downward spiral. The net effect of 9/11 for the U.S. economy has meant the downgrading in the U.S. federal debt to AA+ from the risk-free rating of AAA.

Standard & Poor’s (S&P), which gives out these ratings, explained its actions: “The downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenge.” The problem for S&P was not the economy per se, but the political imbroglio and political myopia within the U.S. The Republican Party, heir to neoconservative domestic and foreign policy, is unable to restructure either the economic or the military objectives for the country. For them, the budget must be balanced (no more foreign debt), but no foreshortening of the military expenditure. Indeed, what the Republicans want is already the case in the U.S., with spending on social goods at an anaemic low level. No wonder that the Census Bureau announced in mid-September that there are now 46.2 million people living under the rather low poverty line (one in six is officially poor, the highest percentage since 1983). The unemployment rate and the rate of those without health insurance are also inching up to break records. Twenty-two per cent of the children in the U.S. live under the poverty line (the worst figure since 1962). President Barack Obama’s announcement of $447 billion towards job creation is a drop in the economic bucket, which has a large hole at its bottom, named Military Expenditure and Tax Cuts. There is no political will to reverse course.

Before 9/11, the U.S. had its eyes fixed on China. After Tiananmen Square (1989), Washington suspended many of its economic and trade relations with China (U.S. Trade and Development Agency’s work was suspended and restrictions emerged for munitions and arms deals). William Triplett, a senior Republican foreign policy expert, formed the Blue Team in the early 1990s with the express interest in ratcheting up conflict with China. Its view of China is defined by the right-wing Weekly Standard, which described the country as “a regime of hair-curling, systematic barbarity”. The Blue Team was strengthened by the military and economic tensions between the rising power in Asia and the stagnant power in the U.S. Many of the Blue Team’s personnel shared a vision of the world with the Project of a New American Century: both worried about the decline in U.S. influence and wanted to tackle the challenges in West Asia (Project) and East Asia (Blue Team) through strengthened belligerency.

In 1996, the U.S. and China clashed over the latter’s operations in the Taiwan Straits (two U.S. aircraft carriers rushed to defend Taiwan). A gradual thaw in relations occurred with the exchange of leaders in both directions, but this was threatened by the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade (1999) and by the shooting down of a U.S. EP-3 spy plane on Hainan Island (2001). U.S. threats in the late spring of 2001 to build its missile defense units to ring China were taken as the ultimate hostile action. Things got so tense that in July 2001, Secretary of State Colin Powell went to Beijing to say, “My presence here today is an example of trying to let the world see that we are not an enemy and we are not looking for an enemy. We are looking for ways to cooperation.” The tensions did not break, and cooperation seemed impossible.

The 9/11 attack shifted U.S. attention away from China. The war on terror sapped the energy and wealth of the U.S. and brought it to its present impasse. Meanwhile, China has been able to build up its own economic prowess, sitting as it is on trillions of dollars in surpluses. At the Dalian meeting of the World Economic Forum in September 2011, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao was asked about the crisis in Europe and the U.S. Wen answered tactfully, but forcefully: “As the two largest advanced economies in the world, the European Union and the U.S. should adopt promptly and resolutely responsible fiscal and financial policies, and push forward policy adjustment and institutional reform as soon as possible so as to cut budget deficit and ease the debt pressure.” Such measures are not feasible. One of the consequences of the way in which U.S. policy was formed after September 11, 2001, was precisely what the Blue Team and the Project for a New American Century feared: it delivered the momentum to China.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) now reports that by 2016, China will have the largest economy in the world. This is a consequence of 9/11.


www.counterpunch.org/.../


Who needs Manchurian candidates when you've got the Neo-cons & Murdoch empire & Israel lobby & Saudi lobby workin' overtime?

N'

nasking

September 22. 2011 09:20 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

September 22. 2011 10:39 AM

D Mick Weir

PatriciaWA,
FB (and some of Lyn's homework)kept me up past my bedtime so I understand the frustration. I hope I didn't cause you to have a disturbed sleep Smile

You wrote:
I thought Bongiorno was wanting the PM to be a good girl and toe the line, listen to the judges.  Did I get that right?

From my pov No. FB wrote:
Menzies accepted the judgment rather more graciously than another lawyer and prime minister, Julia Gillard, took her recent reverse over the Malaysian solution. Nonetheless, the (Menzies) government decided to seek a constitutional amendment.

So no, I read it as Ms Gillard could have had a different demeanour when talking about the High Court's decision. I cringed when I saw that first press conference as to me it was more like a dummy spit than saying the umpire has ruled and as a result we will reaxmine the legislation to see if it can be amended so that it better reflects the intention of the parliament when that legislation was passed.

There are always many lessons to learn from history and one of the hardest parts is discovering what are the right lessons for this moment.

Many dislike Mr Abbott's call for another election because he didn't like the 'umpires decision' and I can understand that some would see Ms Gillard's response in a similar light.

D Mick Weir

September 22. 2011 11:43 AM

Ad astra

TT
So that’s what your cryptic acronym stands for: DYWAT = ‘Don’t You Worry About That’, the Joh B-P catchcry that served him so well for so long.  Do you agree that Tony Abbott has adopted the same dismissive strategy, but using different words?

Nasking
Thank you for your kind comment and your continuing strong contribution to TPS

D Mick Weir
Is Picking Nits your website?  If so, congratulations.  I hope you get lots of traffic.

I read your well-argued piece on the asylum issue with great interest, along with NormanK’s reponses.  If only our regular journalists would treat this vexed subject with such sensitivity, thoughtfulness and factual accuracy.

NormanK
I caught but a glimpse of Joe Hockey’s outburst in parliament on Lateline.  On the face of it, it sounded as you described it, but afterwards I wondered if it was just a sick, but good-humored joke.  Certainly, Anthony Albanese considered Joe Hockey’s remarks insulting to several countries, as if it was unthinkable that, for example, a Pakistani could possibly be expert enough to receive such an award.  Such xenophobia is not just unbecoming from a senior parliamentarian; it exacerbates the anger that other nationalities still feel towards white English-speaking nations that have put them down so often in the past.  The Coalition has managed to disparage several nations in recent weeks, yet it wants to be the government of this nation where it would have to enter into productive diplomatic relations with these very nations.  Very reckless and arrogant!

Ad astra

September 22. 2011 12:03 PM

D Mick Weir

Ad @ 11:43 AM
Yes Picking Nits is my new 'cubby house' sort of like a tree house where I can look out over the world and then write about the interesting bits.

As BlogDadAd you deserve some credit for inspiring me to be, as one my commenters, errr, umm, my only commenter said, to be 'brave'. I suspect it might be a little 'crazy brave'.

Still working on layout and style and well it is like life, a learnig experience.

Looking at the traffic stats is fun, I actually got seven hits in one hour yesterday, a new record Tong and I haven't even told my real life family about it yet though more and more of this family are in on the secret Smile

D Mick Weir

September 22. 2011 12:28 PM

NormanK

Here it is folks - the answer to all of our renewable energy problems.

However Labor MP Shayne Neumann today fuelled speculation that Mr Rudd was building support for a return to The Lodge when he repeatedly refused to say if he had spoken to the Foreign Minister about the leadership.

Better than sunlight, wave motion, or geothermal - simply refuse to speak on an issue or (heaven forbid) decline to answer a question from a media representative and abracadabra - fuel!
It's been right there it front of us the whole time.
Now if only someone would show some real leadership and harness this resource for the good of humanity - that's what it is there for.

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226143504201

NormanK

September 22. 2011 12:36 PM

D Mick Weir

NormanK,
quick patent it before the multinationals get in on the secret Smile

D Mick Weir

September 22. 2011 12:51 PM

Trevor

I note Peter Reith is now almost a regular on our "Left Wing" ABC site The Drum.  In his latest he is urging Mr Abbott to not deny workers the choice of individual agreements.  Presumably because everyone is happier with this arrangement as we all like choices at work.  In his piece he states:

"The first point he might consider is that when he was the minister for workplace relations his policy was to give employees and employers the choice of instruments for agreement-making. So they could use awards, collective agreements with unions, non-union collective agreements and individual agreements (AWAs). Today, Labor has awards and only allows union agreements."

Now in this nirvana of IR choice imagine the two scenarios of Bob going for his annual review with any of BHP, RIO, Spotlight, Westpac or many others.

Scenario A
Well Bob thanks for coming in.  Under the new IR system you now have a choice of conditions which include individual contract, continuing under the award system negotiated by your union or a non union collective bargaining arrangement.  Which of these would you like to use for the coming year?

Or

Scenario B
Thanks for coming in Bob.  Here is your new contract.  Take it away, have a read, then sign it and drop it back to HR by Monday can you?


We all love having choices dont we.

Trevor

September 22. 2011 01:03 PM

Gravel

Lyn

Thanks again for your links, I have two days worth to catch up with. Whew!!  Smile

psyclaw

Your comment on the 20th at 6.53pm had me nodding my head to the point I almost got a headache.  I see a few other posters agree with you too, it was very powerful and filled a gap no one else had put in words.

Ad Astra, 21st, 11am

I heard that interview between Alexandra Kirk and Swanny.  It made me cringe.  I admired the wonderful way Wayne responded, it certainly made her sound harsh and negative.  I guess we should have expected this response but I won't damn well accept it.  Wayne and all the Labor party deserve this award and they should have received the accolades they earned.

NormanK 21st 10.30pm

I can't believe, well yes I can, that the media let Hokey get away with his insulting attitude and behaviour, not only to Wayne Swan but also to all the countries and their ministers too.

Jason 21st, 11.14pm

You have answered Normank beautifully.

Talk Turkey

Enjoy your holiday, don't spend too much time with media and stuff, have a good break so you come back refreshed.  DYWAT, okay.  Smile

Gravel

September 22. 2011 01:36 PM

TalkTurkey

Ad astra
Yes DYWAT is a very useful addition to the blogosphere IYSWIM!
So is IYSWIM, DYWAT!

I'm up here nw in beautiful Chittaway Point, NSW Central Coast, in me sis's absolute riverfront house upstairs on their spacious verandah and looking down on Chestnut Teal and Water Dragons, right there, a tough life she and her husband have of things. He's celebrating having made it to 75, he has survived for over a decade with no pancreas, Ad astra you would probably know whether that is a world record, but he's still very much with us anyway. Like you FS my sister complains of Scrub Turkey depredations on her garden, she doesn't exactly call hers Bruce though.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That phony World's Best Treasurer award for Swan, huh, not worth having, it just goes to show we're being controlled by foreign powers, if Swan were a proper Australian he'd throw it back in their faces, that's what Mister Costello would of done, he didn't want one of course or they would have given him one, he saved up $20 Trillion dollars and now Swan has us $1500 trillion in debt, all to pay for pink batts to burn people's houses down and kill young men, and to build school halls in places that don't exist.

Swan is a disgrace and should be forced to resign and prosecuted for accepting this shameful so-called award. It's bloody unAustralian, just look at the people who awarded Swan, they're all bloody foreigners, what would they know!  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lyn thank you especially for unearthing those infogems for us all, you are the greatest infogem of all. I am managing to keep up with developments via your Links even though I'm mostly away from other media atm. Well I'm not at this very moment, I might even get to see QT today myself and hope you can too.

TalkTurkey

September 22. 2011 01:46 PM

nasking

However Labor MP Shayne Neumann today fuelled speculation that Mr Rudd was building support for a return to The Lodge when he repeatedly refused to say if he had spoken to the Foreign Minister about the leadership.

Norman,
the Coalition & their usual suspect media are lookin' more desperate by the hour.

No cackling & faux smiles & obvious performances by the Coalition frontbench, interviewees & their talking heads  probably pumped up on prescription uppers can hide that fact.

Admiral Gillard seems to have the appropriate strategy...the wind & sun are w/ her...and her fleet. May her flags fly at full mast. Many have abstained from over-indulging.

The accompanying drums & didgeridoos of the Dreamtime call, soothing, as the bulldozers crawl...

and nuclear families wave from the shore glowing in the dark, like sick beacons...

And the bad ship Berlusconi sinks in the fog of its own gluttony farts...taking damaged lifeboat Vanstone w/ it.

N'

nasking

September 22. 2011 01:59 PM

lyn

Hi Talk Turkey

Thankyou for coming to see us again today. I did leave a comment for you on Tuesday, but you probably haven't had time to read everybody's comments.

I told you not to do too much midnight flying and partying.

Sounds like you are having a lovely holiday.

Take care and Big cheers SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 22. 2011 02:23 PM

Trevor

Just tuned in to QT and it is an interesting affair.  The libs are being very well behaved because Harry gave them a warning that if anyone is sin binned they may miss the vote after QT which would mean the amendment to the migration act would get through.

As a result the govt speakers can be heard without an incessant din.

Breaking news:  Member for Cowan just got chucked.  Not sure who he is but it could have ramifications.

Trevor

September 22. 2011 02:39 PM

NormanK

Ad astra
You are very generous to allow that perhaps Joe Hockey's remarks were all in good fun. The following is a lengthy but edited quote from Hockey's tirade in parliament yesterday.

Mr HOCKEY (North Sydney):
I have been encouraged by the opposition and a few journalists to offer my generous congratulations to the Treasurer—a Treasurer who is more like Steven Bradbury than he is Peter Costello. I thought: 'Euromoney magazine. I should first check the previous recipients of the award.' Over the last few years we have had two Slovakian ministers, a Serbian, a Nigerian and a Bulgarian. In 2001 there was a Pakistani finance minister. That is quite an extraordinary one, that one. Then there was Poland, Russia, Denmark and the United States. I thought, 'Well, that's not any basis upon which I could give my endorsement to the Treasurer.'

***************************************

I wonder whether I should give congratulations to a Treasurer who inherited $45 billion of net assets in the bank and has now turned that into a net debt of $145 billion.
Opposition members:  Shame!
Mr HOCKEY:  Should I give him congratulations?
Opposition members:  No!
Mr HOCKEY:  Should I give the Treasurer congratulations—a man who inherited a $22 billion surplus and now has a $22 billion deficit? Should I?
Opposition members:  No!
Mr HOCKEY:  Should I praise a Treasurer who has presided over the fastest peacetime accumulation of government debt in Australia's history? Should I?
Opposition members:  No!
Mr HOCKEY:  Should I praise a Treasurer who has not in four years run a budget surplus?
Opposition members:  No!
Mr HOCKEY:  Should I praise a Treasurer who introduced or has announced 19 new or increased taxes?
An opposition member:  How many?
Mr HOCKEY: Nineteen.
Opposition members:  No!
Mr HOCKEY:  Should I praise a Treasurer who has presided over the most wasteful spending spree in Australia's history—the man who handed out $900 cheques to people who were dead, asking them to stimulate the Australian economy? Should I praise a Treasurer who oversaw a blow-out in the Pink Batts program and a blow-out of billion dollar proportions in the school halls program? Should I praise a Treasurer for his great work in doubling the cost of computers in schools?
Opposition members:  No!
Mr HOCKEY:  No. Should I praise a Treasurer who has turned a $4 billion broadband network into a $39 billion broadband network? Should I praise a Treasurer who wants to introduce a carbon tax?
Opposition members:  No!
Mr HOCKEY:  Should I praise a Treasurer who wants to introduce a mining tax?
Opposition members:  No!
Mr HOCKEY:  Should I praise the most incompetent Treasurer Australia has ever had?
Opposition members:  No!


Page 65 & 66

Mr Albanese responded and then Warren Truss sunk in the boot as well.


Mr TRUSS (Wide Bay—Leader of The Nationals) (16:08):  What a pathetic performance that was from the Leader of the House. I am going to be more gracious: I am going to recognise the superhero efforts of Australia's Treasurer. He managed to spend the nation's savings faster than a speeding bullet—the Treasurer's 'wreckonomics' are truly something to behold. He inherited a surplus, and he turned it into a deficit. We used to earn interest; now we pay interest. The man who effected these changes is the man we are honouring today. He achieved so little for our country that he is leaving behind a legacy of debt that generations will be required to repay. Who has awarded the Treasurer the title of Finance Minister of the Year? It was given to him by Euromoney magazine. One would wonder, with the state of the European economy, how the Europeans could presume to give advice to anyone in the rest of the world. With the European economy at the point of collapse—it is teetering on the edge—and with models of economic virtue such as Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal to use as examples, Euromoney magazine has decided that it is going to give out awards elsewhere around the world. You have heard from previous speakers the list of some of the Treasurers who have received this award in the past. I will note some of the other awards that Euromoney has handed out. For instance, in 2005, the award for the best investment house went to—wait for it—Lehman Brothers. In 2006, the awards for best investment house and best risk management in North America—that is, the US and Canada—went to Bear Stearns. So what kind of judge is Euromoney magazine? What does it know about these sorts of  things? What is the record of the kinds of people it has recognised in the past? The reality is that our Treasurer, Wayne Swan, has got the gong, but the people are going to have to pay the bill. Today, I will suggest a few other awards that I could give to our Treasurer for his performance over recent times. The first is 'the world's greatest spender'.

***************************************

I have a second award for our Treasurer: 'the world's greatest taxer'. There have been at least 19 new or increased taxes since he has been in office.

***************************************

There is a third award that we might give to our Treasurer: 'the world's greatest wrecker'. Through his 'wreckonomics', he has closed many shops and caused many bankruptcies.


Page 69 & 70

Gracious? I think not.
Sporting? Hardly.
Foot stamping from a disgruntled toddler? You betcha.
And underfoot is our relationship with a multitude of sovereign nations and previous recipients of the award.

www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/dailys/dr210911.pdf

NormanK

September 22. 2011 02:59 PM

jane

NormanK, until the msm cops a body blow, it will continue to broadcast lies without pausing for breath. We can only hope this media enquiry puts some lion sized fangs into media monitoring, or it'll be the same ol' same ol'.

TT, love your take on Swannie's gong. Yeah Mr Costello would have thrown it back in their faces, alright; that's if he'd EVER GOT ONE!!!! BbWWaahahahaha!

Nasking @1.46pm, couldn't agree more. Apart from becoming a *lady of leisure, my biggest wish/prayer is that the lies, obfuscations and deceptions by the Liars Party and their lapdogs the Murdochracy, blow up spectacularly in their disgusting mendacious faces!

TT, sounds like you're having the time of your life. Great stuff!

Well, lady might be a stretch. lol.

jane

September 22. 2011 03:03 PM

Ad astra

D Mick Weir
I wish you well with your new site.  I believe you will enjoy the experience.

TT
I enjoyed your ‘account’ of the award to Wayne Swan.  Enjoy your break in what seems to be idyllic conditions.

NormanK
Thank you for the Hansard transcript – Hockey was even more disgusting that I imagined.  There is no charity in his heart or in his colleagues.

Ad astra

September 22. 2011 03:41 PM

Jaeger

And the winner is...  Mr Luke Simpkins MP, Liberal Party:
www.aph.gov.au/.../member.asp?electorate=Cowan

Jaeger

September 22. 2011 03:59 PM

D Mick Weir

Andrew Leigh's speech on changes to the migration act:
http://www.andrewleigh.com/blog/?p=1562

NK he may have heard some of your frustrations

D Mick Weir

September 22. 2011 04:11 PM

jane

I trust the government got in a few hits by reminding the Parliament of Sloppy's sterling performance as Shadow Treasurer.

I don't think that comparing his terrible performance as Shadow Treasurer with Nero's performance as Emperor of Rome is drawing to long a bow.

jane

September 22. 2011 05:20 PM

Sir Ian Crisp


Sir Ian
It's a spelling 'dictionary' on the computer... .

AA


AA may I say "welcome to 2011". You will find many wonders that will delight you. Once again "welcome".

Sir Ian Crisp

September 22. 2011 05:30 PM

nasking

I noticed Julie Bishop out there puttin' pressure on the government re: the UN vote.

It's important in a multicultural country to keep the peace. It's hard for biased influential characters to do so:

In 2010 Bishop defended the suspected forgery of Australian passports by Mossad, saying that many countries practiced the forging of passports for intelligence operations, including Australia.

The government attacked Bishop over the statements, saying she had "broken a long-standing convention" in not speculating about intelligence practices.

She later clarified her statement, saying "I have no knowledge of any Australian authority forging any passports of any nation."
(wikipedia)



Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace.

Buddha

N'

nasking

September 22. 2011 05:36 PM

nasking

obfuscations and deceptions by the Liars Party and their lapdogs the Murdochracy, blow up spectacularly in their disgusting mendacious faces!

jane,
I dig this:

The thought manifests as the word. The word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit. And the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care. And let it spring from love, born out of concern for all beings.

Buddha


Some have lost love for the many on their path of the few.

N'

nasking

September 22. 2011 05:37 PM

NormanK

Ad astra
SIC's sarcasm reminds me that I wanted to tell you about the Concise Oxford Dictionary digital edition for Mac. I have mentioned it here before but if your paper copy is getting a bit ragged you might want to investigate an on-screen version. You can't nominate it as your spell-check dictionary but between the two I am very confident that I have good resources at my fingertips.
Right click - copy on a word takes you to COED definitions.

ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199601097.do

NormanK

September 22. 2011 05:48 PM

Sir Ian Crisp


Ad astra

SIC's sarcasm reminds me that I wanted to tell you about the Concise Oxford Dictionary digital edition for Mac. I have mentioned it here before but if your paper copy is getting a bit ragged you might want to investigate an on-screen version. You can't nominate it as your spell-check dictionary but between the two I am very confident that I have good resources at my fingertips.

Right click - copy on a word takes you to COED definitions.

NormanK


Little steps for now NK. Don't rush it. Tomorrow AA will be taken to Tullamarine where a planned tour of an aircraft will take place for his benefit.

Sir Ian Crisp

September 22. 2011 05:53 PM

D Mick Weir

Sir Ian Crisp Knight of ?

it is easy to get SICK of him Tong

D Mick Weir

September 22. 2011 06:30 PM

jane

nasking @5.36pm, right on.

SIC: smug, patronising and a feeling of superiority. Sums up a cheerleader pretty well, imo.

jane

September 22. 2011 06:56 PM

2353

DMW - nice start to the blog.  Is there an option to comment without one of various "blogger" accounts?

2353

September 22. 2011 06:58 PM

Ad astra

NormanK, DMW, jane
Thank you for your supportive comments about Sir Ian’s sarcasm.

Unadvisedly, I thought by showing some heartfelt gratitude for his pointing me to something of which I was not aware, that if he responded it would be at least in an evenhanded way.  I was wrong.  His propensity for sarcasm seems to be irrepressible.  It is a strange affliction, for which I can suggest no remedy that Sir Ian is likely to understand or accept.  So in future I will not respond to anything he posts, and suggest that if we all ignore him he will go away.  

Ad astra

September 22. 2011 07:03 PM

D Mick Weir

Even academics and other smart type people have a peek at what we say here.

... you would be forgiven for thinking the world is going to the dogs. Is it really, however, or is that just the gloom you get from staring at the problems and not smelling the roses?

Are we in a Golden Age?  Paul Frijters @ Club Troppo
clubtroppo.com.au/.../

D Mick Weir

September 22. 2011 07:14 PM

D Mick Weir

2353 @ 6:56 PM,
thanks for the comment
there is now, just changed from the defaut.

Still working it out but to get a profile image you have to be a 'blogger' reg. user or something like that

D Mick Weir

September 22. 2011 07:32 PM

psyclaw

I was listening to my local ABC yesterday arvo ..... not a habit because I have the growing opinion that the regular announcer is an unmitigated wanker.

Anyway he introduced the topic of meat thefts from supermarkets which had coverage earlier in the week, introducing the topic by saying "the cost of living is so great that people have now been forced to start stealing meat."

He then crossed for live interview with a Detective Sergeant from the Tassy town where the case had originated. The D spoke quite eloquently about the fact that cigarettes are now kept secure in supermarkets as part of smoking disincentive regulations and their role in "steal 'em and quickly resell on blackmarket" schemes no longer exists.

He went on to say how meat is one of several products now targeted in an organised way as part of the blackmarket. Anything small and relatively highly priced (500g of heart start fillet steak at $42 a kilo)which can be immediately offloaded at the pub is worth taking.

The interview ended and the local announcer summarised "isn't it terrible how people now have to steal for a meal because of the high cost of living".

That he is a wanker has now been confirmed. Or is he merely a liberal troll.

psyclaw

September 22. 2011 08:03 PM

jane

psyclaw, there you have it, folks. The detective says this is part of an organised crime network. They usually pinch fags, but they're locked up, so they're pinching meat to sell at the pub.

This twat has been to Liars party Crapaganda school. A Liars party troll, psyclaw. You've told it as it is.

jane

September 22. 2011 08:22 PM

psyclaw



Below is a post I put on The Drum earlier tonight. Some Swordsters might be interested:-


Several commenters below have posed the question "why have offshore processing?"

The original purpose of Howard and Ruddock was to prevent asylum seekers whose claims were rejected, from appealing through the Australian administrative review and judicial systems.

This worked. As a result, Nauru by far boasts the record of about 30% of claims being rejected. This is because there was no right of appeal.

A significant number of the 30% would have undoubtedly won appeals had they had access to the appeal process.

HOWEVER....in the case of M61 in November 2010 the HC invalidated this process, by stating that asylum seekers had right of appeal to the Australian judicial system whether processed on shore or off shore. It said that the way the Howard government used the Migration Act was a sham.

The Howard government can be seen to have been breaking Australian law in 2 ways (a) by sending asylum seekers offshore (as per the recent HC Malaysia case), and (b) by denying them judicial appeal (the M61 case in November 2010).

This law breaking did not come to light till the recent cases, since the matters were in fact not brought to the HC by any asylum seeker until person M61 in 2010, and then persons M70 and M106 in the the Malaysia case did so.

For those who deny this, the very law by which Howard sent them to Nauru, and denied them appeal was the one and the same Migration Act, now held by the HC to mean that such actions are (always were) illegal.

Nauru is clearly no longer a disincentive. Asylum seekers NOW know that they will end up in Australia or NZ. And they know that if rejected they will have the right of judicial appeal, many of which will succeed.

There is now nothing to be gained by using Nauru to "stop the boats".

Abbott knows this but is unconcerned because his current motives are to "not stop the boats". This would mean success to JG, the last thing Abbott wants to allow.

His opposition to Malaysia is precisely for that reason. It seems logical and probable that to put asylum seekers straight on a plane for Malaysia would indeed stop the boats.

Another point of attack for Abbott would be gone, and he knows well that the ETS and the NBN are quickly becoming settled issues and much less susceptible to his squealing.

He believes he can still make political capital out of asylum seekers, regardless of what might be the right and moral thing to do.

psyclaw

September 22. 2011 08:31 PM

Feral Skeleton

  I don't know what to think.
Hello everyone! It's been the last day of school, Year 12, for one of my babies, thus  I spent a few hours there today watching all the girls, and some of the boys, cry. Plus there was all the other attendant ceremonies to sit through.
  Anyhoo. I get home, finally, after having squeezed the weekly shop and a trip back and forth to take "the Second Born", as he loves to style himself, to Ju Jitsu, when what do I finally get to hear on the TV?
  Wtte: "It is being speculated that a Ministerial Reshuffle might be on the cards soon for the Gillard government." Embarassed
   Merely a coincidence?

Feral Skeleton

September 22. 2011 08:31 PM

Ad astra

NormanK
I’m now using the dictionary you suggest.  When I right click, I also get a thesaurus and a Wikipedia definition.  It’s great.

psyclaw
Thank you for your erudite account of the legal niceties of the asylum issue.  You are an asset to TPS.

Folks
I’m calling it a day.

Ad astra

September 22. 2011 08:52 PM

NormanK

psyclaw

@ 8.22PM  Thanks for sharing that with us. A penny dropped while I was reading it - the enormous cost of transporting individuals or groups to and from Nauru during their appeal processes. Presumably, they would have to come to the mainland and be accommodated.
Thanks for that.

NormanK

September 22. 2011 08:56 PM

Ad astra

FS
As far as I can tell, the talk of cabinet reshuffle was merely journalistic surmise.  There has been 'leadership speculation' again today, mainly media generated.  And so on and on it goes tiresomely while PM Gillard and her ministers get on with governing.

Ad astra

September 22. 2011 09:00 PM

NormanK

Ad astra
I won't labour the point but you have misunderstood my post regarding the Oxford Dictionary. What you have under 'dictionary' on your Mac is the New Oxford American Dictionary and the Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus. I was suggesting the Concise Oxford Dictionary off a CD-ROM as a separate resource. Follow the link to see what I mean.

ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199601097.do

NormanK

September 22. 2011 09:17 PM

Feral Skeleton

psyclaw,
        Of course you are correct in surmising, as the PM has done, that Tony Abbott doesn't really want to 'Stop the Boats', for if he did he would have agreed to allow the Malaysian Arrangement to take place. What he wants to do is Stop the Gillard government in it's tracks.
  I also found his hypocrisy breathtaking in the parliament today, and the TV networks chutzpah distasteful in repeating what he had to say when he had the bare-faced gall to tell the PM to resign because she hadn't been able to pass an Asylum Seeker policy into law BECAUSE HE HAD DECIDED NOT TO SUPPORT IT IN THE PARLIAMENT!!!
   The man has all the character of a slug.

Feral Skeleton

September 22. 2011 09:23 PM

Jaeger

FS - perhaps it was coincidence, but I assume it's another attempt at distraction by the "anonymous Liberal sources" that were pushing the media's buttons re: Rudd challenging for the leadership.  Yawn...  It's like political machination bingo; I'm guessing it'll be a "spy scandal" next - we haven't had one of those for a while.

Jaeger

September 22. 2011 09:24 PM

NormanK

Feral Skeleton

I am guessing that you may have missed a classic day in the Australian press. If I have understood the machinations correctly, a Liberal MP verballed a Labor MP who is supposed to have had a phone call from Kevin Rudd (whilst he is in Washington) in which he was said to be canvassing support for a coup. The Labor MP (so the story goes) then admitted as much to the Liberal MP and said Rudd was within 5 or 7 or 11 votes (depending on which version you care to listen to) away from toppling Gillard. It is now known who the Labor and Liberal MPs are and the Labor MP has debunked the verballing. But not before the story got caught up in the feedback loop that is the Australian media and blown out of all proportion with Abbott buying into it to give it a bit of extra momentum.

Chris Uhlmann (Mr Savvy in Rosen's definitions of journalistic types) declared tonight that there is no leadership speculation or number counting. The entire thing was cooked up by a Liberal, beefed up by more Liberals and faithfully amplified by our robust independent media. As I say, it was a classic.

NormanK

September 22. 2011 09:32 PM

Jaeger

psyclaw - I blame Tony Abbott.  Meat would be a lot cheaper if butcher's didn't have to pay for anti-stunt protection.

Jaeger

September 22. 2011 09:34 PM

Jaeger

P.S.  Apologies for that errant apostrophe - the relentless dumbing down must be getting to me.  Bring back the "Clever Country"!

Jaeger

September 22. 2011 09:37 PM

Michael

Very very Bad Abbott

By having his troops filibuster their speeches on the alterations to the Migration Act, Shouldabeen has successfully put off a vote till mid-October.

He clearly imagines this gives him all that time to kick the same football around, because I actually believe he will direct Coalition members to vote for the amendments eventually.

Because it will give any future Coalition government a blank cheque on offshore processing; and by not forcing the current government into onshore processing, which a future Coalition government would inherit and find difficult to rescind, he can still prattle on about the Coalition's policy 'consistency' (sic)k) on asylum seekers.

I reckoned he would 'regretfully' accede to a Yes vote today, but I forgot just how rancid a 'pragmatist' he is. The delayed vote is time he can fill with more personal attacks on the Prime Minister and mealymouthed espousals of his freshly discovered concern for refugees' human rights.
If any boat sinks or asylum seeker is harmed traveling here on one before the vote, well... it's now on Abbott's head.

Although, of course, should any such tragedy occur, he will undoubtedly call it as another reason for the PM to resign.

"Hypocrite" doesn't even begin to define the shallow viciousness of this man.

Michael

September 22. 2011 09:48 PM

NormanK

Michael

I agree with you entirely and this might give Abbott the 'out' that he requires.

Julia Gillard thrown lifeline in asylum bill fight
by Malcolm Farr

AN independent MP's amendment could be the key to saving the Government from an embarrassing defeat over its asylum seeker legislation.

**************************************

NSW independent Rob Oakeshott will move an amendment to the Government’s bill which would entrench in law the regional co-operation strategy - managed by the United High Commission for Refugees - to deal with asylum seekers.

**************************************

Mr Oakeshott’s amendment would put into law consultation through what is known as the Bali Process, which in 2002 created a conference on people smuggling, trafficking in persons and related transnational crime’’.

“By supporting this regional process, the focus on short-term political opportunism that is framing the current debate is removed, without limiting Australia’s opportunity to coordinate an approach that current or future governments consider necessary,” he said in a statement.

“It would allow for consideration of a range of measures including, but not limited to, offshore processing, onshore processing or community detention.”


www.news.com.au/.../story-e6frfkw9-1226143485115

NormanK

September 22. 2011 10:10 PM

jane

<blockquote>"It is being speculated that a Ministerial Reshuffle might be on the cards soon for the Gillard government."</blockquote>

Aaahhh! the old unnamed source trick. Would you believe s/he has 5 Cabinet Ministers ready to spill the beans? 4 backbenchers? A homeless labrador looking for a good home?

FS @9.17pm, on behalf of slugs, I demand an apology. We have infinitely more personality than Liealot.

I do believe that Real Insurance is now providing that very protection, with anti-lycra insurance thrown in, Jaeger.

jane

September 22. 2011 10:11 PM

Feral Skeleton

  I can't believe what an impossibly good MP Rob Oakeshott is. A bit goofy outside of parliament, but I listened to his Migration Act speech today and I was seriously impressed. It was a lightbulb moment, such that you think to yourself, "Well, of course, that's what should be done." And such a simple and elegant solution. Entrench the tenets of the Bali Process in law as our position when it comes to Asylum Seeker policy. All else flows naturally from there.

Feral Skeleton

September 22. 2011 10:14 PM

Feral Skeleton

jaeger,
       Maybe a Coalition MP will find an Australian flag with semen on it in the PM's office? Just as he/she just happens to be passing by(and if you know Parliament House and access to the PM's rooms, you'll know how unlikely that happenstance would be. Wink

Feral Skeleton

September 22. 2011 10:15 PM

Feral Skeleton

   'Slow and steady wins the race.'
That's what I'd be saying to the PM atm.

Feral Skeleton

September 22. 2011 10:18 PM

Feral Skeleton

NormanK,
        Every day in the Australian media is a classic example of the hermetically-isolated nature of the political reporting of the Nation's politics.

Feral Skeleton

September 22. 2011 11:59 PM

Trevor

FS:  I also heard Rob Oakshot's speech and was impressed.  I don't know anything about the Bali Protocol to know if it is actually a good alternative.  What impressed though was that he has done some work on this and seemed to be across the issues.  

Something I have banged on about is the unwillingness of the Libs to do any graft in order they could speak knowledgeably about an issue.  Of course the lead comes from the top on this and they all seemed to have picked up that there is no future in debating facts.  

Trevor

September 23. 2011 12:14 AM

Patricia WA

I thought he promised well at the very the start of this hung parliament, particularly on asylum seekers.  I wrote this here at TPS 28/08/10

Sea Change?                                  

Last night we heard a voice of sanity
Concerned about what’s right, not winning votes,
Someone prepared to show humanity
To those who flee to us in leaky boats.

As he deplored our ‘moat’ mentality,
Prepared to say we’re needlessly deranged
I felt a lightening, a clarity,
As if the air and sea around had changed.


Today's effort suggests he's going to help bring that sea change in for the government and for refugees.

Patricia WA

September 23. 2011 06:16 AM

Gravel

Michael

I blame Tony Abbott.  Meat would be a lot cheaper if butcher's didn't have to pay for anti-stunt protection.

Thanks for the belly laugh, you have put your finger on it right there.

NormanK

After Julia introduced the AS amendments, it was then adjourned until mid October.  The rabble wanted it now, Albo agreed to that.  My query is why did the Government not want to do it straight away, have they got something up their sleeve, and have the rabble fallen for it?

Gravel

September 23. 2011 07:22 AM

lyn






TODAY’S LINKS


Shanahan counter-spun, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless
Abbott's attitude is to knock over an opponent whenever possible, but the fact that Gillard is still standing is an indictment of
his supposedly ferocious political skills, and makes her look strong. His main aim is to spark an election he would be certain
to win on the current polling, but none of the independents can bear the man
andrewelder.blogspot.com/.../...-counter-spun.html

Abbott absurdities on climate change, Brian, Larvatus Prodeo
an example from early May of Abbott claiming that the carbon tax will make it hard for Australia to remain a first world economy. The image onthe left is from a Gladstone Observer story which has him hairing off to a bus depot in Queanbeyan to highlight the flow-on effects of the tax ifapplied to fuel. That was in the ‘in the absence of information just make it up’ stage.
larvatusprodeo.net/.../

If that is where you are going I wouldn't start from here. D Mick Weir, Picking Nits
This has become a highly emotional and complex issue mostly because of political football, opportunism and the unfortunate
fact that fear is easier to sell than common sense policy.
ausnitpicks.blogspot.com/.../...u-are-going-i.html

Memo ABC-land-,Jeremy Sammut, Incise
labelling of the Prime Minister is intensely personal. It’s got nothing remotely to do with politics. It’s all about the voice, the hair, the boyfriend –all the cheap shots taken by At Home With Julia at our ‘Bogan PM’.
www.incise.org.au/.../

Hockey hunts for class on the Swan gong, Bernard Keane, Crikey
Joe Hockey rose after question time yesterday to attack Swan, suggesting that the award was undeserved
and that, to the extent that it may have been deserved, it should have gone to Peter Costello.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Make Like Obama and Tax The Rich , Ben Eltham, New Matilda
The top marginal tax rate in this country is 45 per cent for incomes over $180,000. The Greens have long had a proposal to raise this 50 per cent for those earning over $1 million, which they estimated would reap an extra $250 million in revenue in 2005-06.
http://newmatilda.com/2011/09/22/tax-the-rich

An interesting situation, Steve, Opinion Dominion
Paul Sheehan, who really hates this Federal Labor government, nonetheless starts his column this morning with the observation
that he doesn't actually disagree with an assessment that Tony Abbott has " a streak of bogan" in him.
opiniondominion.blogspot.com/.../...situation.html

whatever it takes , Gary Sauer-Thompson, Public Opinion
Paul Kelly is another. Kelly says that the impression Abbott leaves with his tougher and more humane stance on the asylum
issue is that his real motive is to cripple Gillard in political terms
http://www.sauer-thompson.com/

Contradictory beliefs, Chris Bertram, Crooked Timber
It is morally urgent to lift everyone above the threshold where they can live decent lives. If anyone should get to grow their consumption
absolutely, it needs to be those people, not us.
http://crookedtimber.org/

The Privilege To Speak Freely, Helen Pringle, New Matilda
Parliamentary privilege is not the appropriate forum in which to adjudicate the truth of Hepworth’s claims, given the irreparable consequences of its potential fallibility in doing so.
newmatilda.com/2011/09/22/privilege-speak-freely

Press Council boss in push to regulate reader comments and sign up ‘serious bloggers’, Mumbrella
In an interview with Mumbrella editor Tim Burrowes, Prof Julian Disney, who chairs the Australian Press Council said that newspapers
and digital publishers needed to boost their online standards
mumbrella.com.au/press-council-boss-in-push-to-regulate-reader-comments-and-sign-up-serious-bloggers-58681

Cory Bernardi Sarah Palin and the Australian Tea Party, Barry Everingham, Independent Australia
The senator should really get hold of the book, and so should those on the extreme right of the Liberal Party, and reassess
their views on the kind of party they are becoming by their adoration of Palin and what she “stands” for.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

The man who controls the price of money, The Power Index
Last year, Stevens received a pay rise to become the country's first million-dollar public servant. He is now one of the
most highly paid central bankers in the world, banking hundreds of thousands more than US Fed counterpart Ben Bernanke.
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../glenn-stevens

A handy guide to complaining about stuff | The Punch )), Darin Sullivan, The Left Hack
There’s nothing better than whinging about people who whinge about stuffFrom screaming leftie to uptighty righty, it’s hard to know exactlywhich knee-jerk reaction is the best one. To that end, I’ve compiled a handy guide for you, listing possible scenarios and offering recommendations,
darinsullivan.wordpress.com/.../

Sydney too must go up to go green, Ross Gittins
it comes as a bit of a shock to read in Triumph of the City, the latest book by America's leading urban economist,
Professor Edward Glaeser, of Harvard, that cities are a lot greener than the suburbs and countryside.
www.rossgittins.com/.../...-go-up-to-go-green.html

Limits of liberal critique: Murdoch, the media and the Manne Quarterly Essay, Tad Tietze, The Drum
The jury is in, and The Australian is indeed a thoroughly one-eyed beast. It is happy to create the news rather than report it; prepared to sully the names of academics and bloggers and to bring down prime ministers; keen to prosecute ideological wars in the service of military
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2910204.html


Newspapers:-


Mirabella in hot seat over QC lover's dying days, SMH

Howard, 40 years her senior, was also her live-in lover for five years in the late 1990s. Nor that she had received gifts from him valued at well over $100,000 to help her election to Federal Parliament in 2001. Nor, allegedly, another substantial sum to buy her
Wangaratta farmhouse in 2007.
www.smh.com.au/.../...ing-days-20110922-1knct.html

Robert Manne defends Quarterly Essay in one-sided debate , Nick Leys, The Australian
BY his own reckoning, Robert Manne has developed a thick skin, a hide grown over many years from the cut and thrust of
debate and the wounds of intellectual combat.
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../

Premier lashes 'unsubtantiated smear' , The Australian
In a statement, Mr O'Farrell said he was disappointed that anyone could have their reputation damaged by unsubstantiated allegations.
"In the absence of any formal complaint or further information it is grossly unfair to smear anyone's reputation," he said.
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../

lyn

September 23. 2011 07:32 AM

Feral Skeleton

Gravel,
       Re: moving the AS vote. I read someone, somewhere(and it's getting increasingly hard to remember who and where in these days of multiple sources of information Smile ), that it was a very smart move by Albo to put off the vote.
   On the other hand, I read it was a very smart move by the Opposition to cause it to be put off due to their filibustering. Which would give Tony Abbott licence, therefore, to go around the country for the next few weeks, using that horrid diarrhoea allusion that he does, and say that, "The government has lost control of our borders".

   On balance, it's probably the latter.

   Still, it does give the government the chance to regroup and get together with Rob Oakeshott and possibly the other Indies bar Bandt, to get his Amendments ship shape to be put back into parliament. Then, if it gets through the Lower House, and this is where I think Albo may be going, that is, it hasn't yet been defeated there, so, if he can steer it through the Lower House, then it will go to the Senate and drop fairly and squarely into the laps of The Greens. The Greens will then have to try and explain how their mawkish sentimentality over Asylum Seekers doesn't extend to supporting a move by the government designed to save lives at sea, not just make them better, when and if they get here. Of course we know the Coalition don't give two hoots.

Feral Skeleton

September 23. 2011 08:17 AM

Michael

This story:

www.smh.com.au/.../...ing-days-20110922-1knct.html

in all its sleazy-behaviour laid out detail, so sums up the true nature of Sophie Mirabella, and by extension, what it takes to be part of Tony Abbott's inner circle, so perfectly that you must read it end to end.

For sure, this tale will splash far and wide, smelly with it, as it plays out fully.

Michael

September 23. 2011 08:30 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

September 23. 2011 09:04 AM

Feral Skeleton

Even BFF Karl Stefanovic tried to pin down on the mat the slippery eel of politics, Tony Abbott, on The Today Show this morning over the misleading nature of Nigel Scullion's tattle tale wrt Trish Crossin's phone conversation with Kevin Rudd about the leadership.
   As per usual, the Prevaricator-In-Chief, covered in the maximum amount of Baby Oil to facilitate his getting out from under act, neither confirmed nor denied the veracity of the story, so conveniently left it hanging in the minds of the viewers, and then swiftly moved on to one of his well-crafted sledges of the government, based upon absolutely no evidence at all, and which, if true and turned back at him, could also be said about his own side of politics. If only the government could find a suitably loquacious headkicker to sink the slipper back into Abbott and the Coalition the way they do it to the government. Sigh.
   The government have started probing for the sweet spot and giving a few back and front benchers a tryout, which is good to see(and which would evaporate if Mr I,I,I,Kevin Rudd came back into the picture). So far Stephen Conroy on The Today Show on a Thursday is doing the best, for mine.
   Also, it's obvious to Blind Freddy that the day after Kevin Rudd 'succeeded' in returning to the leadership, out would come the 'Kevin O'Lemon ads on You Tube, as would the Coalition props and the media 'revisiting' his time as PM. And down would go the polls all over again, with tags of 'absolute inconsistency' and 'a shambolic government' thrown about with gay abandon.
  The media succeeded once before in bringing down a Labor Prime Minister, aided and abetted, it must be said, by his own character flaws, but I think it's safe to say, 'Once bitten, twice shy' when it comes to the ALP doing it again.

Feral Skeleton

September 23. 2011 10:04 AM

lyn


Hi Ad

See what's happened, they ran Craig Thompson into the ground, tried to ruin his life, now they have this, wonder what captain liar has to say about ditch the witch.

Doing right, Sophie Mirabella under pressure to give vulnerable old mans Estate to Charity , Vex news

opens up a world of trouble for Mirabella who, insiders say, is quick to run out prurient and nasty stories about internal political rivals and who throws her increasing weight around the chamber

Howard bank-rolled Mirabella’s entry into politics, backing her preselection and election bid. VEXNEWS understands Mirabella had moved to Wangaratta to nominally work as a barrister
timewww.vexnews.com/.../

Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 23. 2011 10:09 AM

Ad astra

Folks
Does anyone have a link to the Hansard record of Rob Oakeshott's speech about the asylum issue.  I would like to email him.

Ad astra

September 23. 2011 10:22 AM

Michael

AA, hi.

Generic (including Oakeshott's speech yesterday) Hansard for the House of Reps here. Save/Open PDF file for September 22, search 'inside' it.

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/hansreps.htm

Michael

Michael

September 23. 2011 10:34 AM

Ad astra

Michael
Thank you very much.  I have found Rob Oakeshott's speech in your Hansard link.  I will read it carefully when I have time.

Ad astra

September 23. 2011 11:13 AM

NormanK

2353

Let me know if you need a shoulder to cry on. We share in your sense of loss.

Madonna King leaves ABC
by Michael Body

ABC612 morning presenter Madonna King will leave the public broadcaster's Brisbane radio station to return to print journalism and book writing.

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg996-1226144369708

NormanK

September 23. 2011 11:14 AM

nasking

I respect Kevin Rudd but these unrelenting attacks on PM Gillard & increasingly frenzied speculations about a leadership spill, notably in The Australian today, makes me wonder if Ruddy has done a deal w/ the Murdoch/Mitchell devil & demon.

I would remind Kevin Rudd of the role The Australian & Murdoch media played in his downfall:

Rudd versus News Ltd

It’s that rare thing – a political leader publicly at odds with Australia’s largest print media company. Rob Chalmers reports from Canberra

09 July 2009

HE PUBLIC doesn’t read much about the detail of government relations with the media barons because the news organisations they control – newspapers, TV and radio – rarely discuss it. But there has been a significant change in relations between the Murdoch press and the Rudd government which has startled the Canberra press gallery.

Rudd has attacked the journalistic standards of the News Ltd newspapers, and much of it was clearly aimed at the Australian. Although it has a small circulation, the paper is closely read by political journalists and politicians and has a role in setting the media agenda each day. Throughout the Howard years, the Australian was favoured with a steady flow of leaks from Howard’s office while the Fairfax papers got nothing. It has as good a staff of journalists as any paper in the country, many of whom in their writings were critical of many aspects of the Howard government. Nevertheless, the paper was overtly biased towards Howard. When the Newspolls, published exclusively by the Australian, were so rotten for Howard during 2007, the paper’s commentators could always find some ray of hope for the Coalition.

After Labor’s 2007 election win, contrary to expectations, the government drip feed continued for the Australian, despite its many post-election attacks on the Rudd government. Bear in mind that the paper’s editor-in-chief, Chris Mitchell, had been a friend of Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan since his Brisbane days with the Courier Mail. In August last year Inside Canberrra newsletter revealed Rudd’s meeting with Mitchell in Mitchell’s office, accompanied by Wayne Swan, Julia Gillard and Lindsay Tanner. At this meeting Rudd confided in Mitchell his concern about the rise of China’s military power. In 2008 Mitchell was widely believed to be the source of a story in his paper of a conversation between Rudd (at Kirribilli House) and George Bush. The story claimed that when Rudd had spoken of the need to call a meeting of the G-20, Bush enquired “What’s the G-20?” Mitchell was a guest of Rudd at Kirribilli House at the time the phone call with Bush took place.

Despite this, and despite critical campaigns against the government by the paper, the Australian stayed on the drip feed. UteGate seemed to be the last straw for Rudd. Like other News Ltd papers, the Australian played up the affair with fervour and seemed as anxious as Malcolm Turnbull to generate a major furore around allegations that Rudd had given special favors to car dealer John Grant, who had loaned him a used utility for his electorate work. Even when UteGate collapsed after an email Turnbull was relying on turned out to be a fraud, the Australian didn’t stop. It ran a piece under the heading of “Ipswich Inc at the heart of OzCar.” The report was a strained and unconvincing attempt to link Rudd and Grant to the disgraced Brisbane property developer, George Cheihk. Another factor which angered Rudd was the heavy campaign the Australian ran attacking Julia Gillard’s school infrastructure program. The paper ignored Gillard’s comprehensive rebuttal of its claims and continued the attack.

At a press conference in Darwin following Kevin Rudd’s meeting with state premiers last week, Mathew Franklin of the Australian asked the prime minister a question about UteGate. The PM launched into an attack, which is worth quoting at some length. “I think, what a number of people have said to me, Matthew around the place is where have we kind of got to, when you have major papers like the Daily Telegraph, the Courier-Mail and the Adelaide Advertiser running on their front page that the prime minister of the country is corrupt, and then secondly the editors it seems not having sighted any original document in terms of this email, and thirdly, it turns out that that email is a forgery, I would have thought a few people would want to know how all that happened, what sort of journalistic checks were put in place for that to be the case, or is it simply being sort of airbrushed from history? I think the other thing which sort of comes up is, I mean the usual accusations when political leaders respond to factually inaccurate reporting in the media, in this case in those papers that I referred to, is to accuse the political leaders in question of having some sort of glass jaw. It may simply be that what people want is just some basic answers as to how that might have happened, that’s a pretty basic thing. The other thing I saw the chief executive of your own news organisation do yesterday was, in responding to this, indicate that somehow the deputy prime minister was raising these matters because she’d felt set upon by your newspaper over the coverage of the Building the Education Revolution stuff. Well, all’s fair in love and war, I mean, you guys will take whatever editorial position you want on the Building the Education Revolution and that’s been the case.” Rudd described this treatment of Gillard as “journalistic retaliation”.

Interestingly, the PM referred to “the Murdoch press” at the press conference. One wonders whether he blames Rupert for the News Ltd papers being so tough on his government. On several occasions when in the United States Rudd has gone out of his way to court Murdoch, obviously hoping to keep him on side, despite Murdoch’s obvious support for Howard.

The Australian is not taking this lying down. Following on the serve Rudd delivered last week, the paper rushed to return fire the next day with a piece attacking Rudd, curiously by Imre Salusinszky, its NSW state political roundsman, who has never worked in the Canberra press gallery. On Monday Glenn Milne, who has probably written more anti-Rudd stuff than anyone in the gallery, devoted a whole column to vilifying Rudd. One of Milne’s strangest complaints concerned Rudd’s defence of Gillard in the face of the Australian’s “fair and accurate reporting of the tattered state of her so-called ‘education revolution’.” Milne ignored the point-by-point demolition by Gillard in parliament of the Australian’s campaign.

In the Financial Review Laura Tingle reported that Rudd’s office believes the Australian’s chagrin relates to its failure to be put “on the drip as had ostentatiously happened under the Coalition.” On the contrary, I think the paper has been favoured over Fairfax papers until very recently. Tingle astutely observed, “News Ltd papers, meanwhile, reassure themselves they have been fearlessly going where others don’t dare in the public interest, with the fact they are wrong being only a minor irritation.”

What Fairfax journalists are wondering is whether they will now be put on the drip feed with News Ltd papers spurned, or whether the drip will be turned off altogether, or perhaps directed to commercial television stations and particularly Laurie Oakes of the Nine Network. Rudd’s media relations will be watched with interest as the next election draws closer. •

Rob Chalmers is editor of the newsletter Inside Canberra and the longest serving member of the Federal Parliamentary Press Gallery

http://inside.org.au/rudd-versus-news-ltd/

If need be, I'm sure that others can assist me in finding the many many News Ltd front pages, headlines, articles & so on that contributed to the assassination of Rudd as PM.

If he's in bed w/ this manipulative organisation now & attempting to destabilise PM Gillard I would lose every ounce of respect for him...as have many of us for former UK PM Tony Blair.

I prefer to believe he's gettin' on w/ the fine job as FM he's been doin'.

Godfather or not...I'm sick & tired of living in a Murdochracy.

TO HELL WITH THE MURDOCHRACY!!!

The people deserve better. WE deserve better.

Our pollies need to brandish "courage" like a sword...hold it up proudly for all to see.

Don't allow slime, blackmail, threats, history, lust for power, bitterness, guilt, money & ambition to divert you from the good path...

the brainwashing propagandist is seen for the ugly creature he is...day by day...by more & more people...as they awake from their sleep...

show them THE BEAST he is...

and the people will join you...

in the fight for a better day.

There's no goin' back. Beasts consume...leaving hollow men & women. It's a pattern of behaviour. Regardless of promises & seduction techniques.

BTW, a certain former ALP powerbroker can kiss our shiny arses/asses.

GO JULIA!!!

N'

nasking

September 23. 2011 11:17 AM

Feral Skeleton

  If a picture says a thousand words, what does this one say about 'The Liberal Team'?
http://www.liberal.org.au/Abbott-Team.aspx?s=MP

   For the life of me I can't understand how it got past Lib Head Office, it says so much about each person in it.

Feral Skeleton

September 23. 2011 11:23 AM

Trevor

Lead story on RN at 6:00 this morning was a reported gathering of numbers by Kevin Rudd.  I thought uh oh, I wonder where this is going.  I then heard the source of the information is a LNP senator from the NT!!!! WTF.  

I don't know or care if this guy thinks he really heard the conversation he is giving to the media.  Why are the media & the ABC running it? Surely they would look at the source & say "that's very interesting but we need more evidence than that".

If I ring my local ABC station and say that I happened to be sitting in cafe next to Tony Abbott & overheard him saying he secretly admired Julia Gillard would they run it?  

This has all the hallmarks of a deliberate strategy by the libs to try and ramp up pressure on JG through the media.  Given there is an ever so small shift in scrutiny being applied to their own contradictions, they through a shiny thing to the media who dutifully run after it.  

The next parliamentary sitting in two weeks time could be crunch time for the libs.  For all of their bluster I suspect they are also divided.

BTW when does Arthur Sinodinos take up his seat?  

Trevor

September 23. 2011 11:25 AM

nasking

Lyn,
thnx for the link:

DOING RIGHT: Sophie Mirabella under pressure to give vulnerable old man’s estate to charity

The Australian Liberal party...we accept miners of any kind, including potential gold diggers.

N'

nasking

September 23. 2011 11:26 AM

Trevor

Shoudd read.

they throw a shiny thing to the media who dutifully run after it.  

Sorry

Trevor

September 23. 2011 11:37 AM

TalkTurkey

From Brucie the Bilby:
(for kiddies and those who have lost their innocence see)

The Zoo sign reads:
  WOMBAT
Eats roots shoots and leaves.
A true Aussie Digger:
Grunts, shovels and heaves.

We'll be found safe and sound underground when it's hot,
And we can run quite fast, but we'd much rather squat!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And while we are on the wings of poesy -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That errant lost apostrophe, the one folks put in 'its'
As possessive case of pronoun 'it', it's giving me the spits!
There needs to be a course in just its use - a high degree -
A five-year Honours course should do, maybe a PhD.

It's just so hard to grok! - that in the lonely case of 'it',
The apostrophe of possession got the Royal Dummy Spit!
In all the nouns’ possessive cases, oh why should it be,
That 'its' meaning 'belonging to it' don't get no apostrophe?

The only time it’s needed isn’t in possessive case:
The apostrophe of omission is its only proper place!
If it's meant to mean it is, or has, then put it in, no doubt,
But if its meaning is 'belongs to it' FFS LEAVE IT OUT!



TalkTurkey

September 23. 2011 11:45 AM

Ad astra

NormanK
Thank you for the link to the Concise Oxford Dictionary.  I think the one on the Mac will do for the present, although its definitions may not always suit Sir Ian.  But I will watch the 'zees'.

Folks
I'm getting on the road now for the south coast.  I'll be back this evening to post AC's latest: Rugby World Cup Wobblies.

Ad astra

September 23. 2011 12:15 PM

Jason

Trevor,
      "BTW when does Arthur Sinodinos take up his seat?"
I'm pretty sure he will be there when parliament resumes in a couple of weeks!

Jason

September 23. 2011 12:27 PM

2353

NormanK

King's farewell party will be in the phone box on the corner (because they can't find anywhere smaller).

2353

September 23. 2011 12:31 PM

NormanK

I know I'm a bit dim and freely concede to being more than a little naive on a lot of subjects but I have to wonder aloud: How are these two things relevant to each other?

No mention of Swan-RBA board remuneration spat
by Michael Stutchbury

EUROMONEY magazine has this week praised its Finance Minister of the Year, Wayne Swan, for backing the Reserve Bank of Australia's political independence in setting interest rates.

But it didn't refer to Swan's removal of the Reserve Bank board's independence in setting the pay of its two top officials, a practice in place since the central bank was founded in 1960. Nor did it mention the spat between the Treasurer and the board's remuneration committee, comprising former Telstra chairman Donald McGauchie, Fairfax Media chairman Roger Corbett and company director Jillian Broadbent.


www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg9p6-1226143027715

Okay, there's a story to be had there. The relative merits of Swan's actions are beyond my level of knowledge (I have an opinion but it is irrelevant) but surely dragging his recent award into the article is just sour grapes. The Euromoney award was no doubt based on a good deal more than for backing the Reserve Bank of Australia's political independence in setting interest rates. If Stutchbury wants to attack Swan as being unsuitable for the award then he should just come out and do so. If he wants to make the point that Swan should not have interfered in the remuneration settings for the RBA Governor and Deputy Governor he should just come out and do so. Linking the two looks like a hissy fit.

Are we really so juvenile that we need to pick at every little itch and turn it into a festering sore?

NormanK

September 23. 2011 12:52 PM

Michael

If a picture says a thousand words, what does this one say about 'The Liberal Team'?

http://www.liberal.org.au/Abbott-Team.aspx?s=MP

   For the life of me I can't understand how it got past Lib Head Office, it says so much about each person in it.

Feral Skeleton


Feral, hi.

When I first saw this picture a while back I had the same reaction. Each portrait sums up the character of those portrayed perfectly.

Too bad Sophie "Hand Out" Mirabella and Barnaby "Tongue Out" Joyce are both 'out' of frame.

In the frame is where both definitely should be.

Michael

September 23. 2011 01:13 PM

Jason

Normank,
       I don't think that it's "we" that are so juvenile it's more the case of the "Author" of the article and the paper who has an axe to grind.
This is the same "author and paper" who until recently were complaining about the "waste" of the "BER' and the other measures that Lead to Swan getting the award!
He just can't win.

Jason

September 23. 2011 01:20 PM

psyclaw

HSU National Sceretary Kathy Jackson was interviewed by Ms Trioli on Ch 24 this morning.

Jackson has held her position since 2007. She stated that an audit of the Victorian Branch (with which she is affiliated) in 2009 showed very poor financial control and auditing systems.

She spoke about the fact that it should all have been fixed up by "the leaders" at the time, speaking as though SHE was quite independent of the leadership.

She was questioned by V Trioli as to why SHE didn't fix it.

Excuse 1 was that FWA were involved and she didn't want to pre-empt their work. Trioli didn't accept this.

Excuse 2 was that she's only just found out how bad it was. Trioli didn't accept this, and asked that surely the 2007 audit alerted her.

Excuse 3 was a load of incomprehensible verbage.

I have no doubt that Jackson's actions in recent weeks are totally motivated by revenge and power consolidation in this very complicated union structure. She is not to be trusted.

Lyn and Michael
Thanks for the info about Mirabella. She has always seemed to me to be a female pugilist on a par with Abbott. Whilst not condoning Belinda Neal's unkind words to her when she was pregnant a few years back, I can easily understand anyone having the urge to express ill will to her.

Hope the SMH and other media run with this story. As it goes to the deep character of someone who is a forceful and dominating member of the alternate government, her conduct deserves scrutiny.

Mr Ian Crisp
I note no response from you about my 2 posts yesterday arvo. I invite you to put my posts under your spotlight, using facts and logical argument. Cattus rapio vestri linguae?

psyclaw

September 23. 2011 01:38 PM

Feral Skeleton

psyclaw,
        Thank you for your precis of the Kathy Jackson interview with Virginia Trioli this morning. Would that Tony Abbott would allow himself to be put under the same scrutiny by Ms Trioli, or any one of the handful of forensic journalists left at the ABC. Instead all we ever get is tightly-scripted and edited, pre-recorded 'interviews' with Chris Uhlmann.

   As far as Kathy Jackson goes, I would have counselled her to beware what you wish for. If Virginia Trioli can point out the mote in Ms Jackson's eye that easily, then the Fraud Squad should be able to see that, and more.

Feral Skeleton

September 23. 2011 01:51 PM

Feral Skeleton

Ad Astra,
         You may also be interested in this Press Release from Rob Oakeshott about his Asylum Seeker policy amendments and his philosophical position on the issue:

   http://roboakeshott.com/node/1073

Feral Skeleton

September 23. 2011 02:06 PM

Jason



No panic in Labor ranks over Gillard leadership - Windsor
From: AAP September 23, 2011 11:58AM

FEDERAL independent MP Tony Windsor says he doesn't sense there is "panic or stress" among Labor's ranks over the leadership of Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

Speculation is rife that Labor MPs may turn to Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd in preference to supporting Ms Gillard, whose popularity is sinking along with the ALP's primary vote.

But Mr Windsor, who had an agreement with Labor to form the minority government and speaks regularly with the Prime Minister and other Labor members, said he did not believe a leadership challenge was on.

"I'm not picking up any of what I'm reading (in the media) in anyone's chatter," he told AAP today.

Mr Windsor said he had four meetings with the Prime Minister over the past week.

"I don't pick up any panic or stress in terms of Kevin Rudd," he said.

"I could not conceive of him ringing around the troops."

He said the only way Mr Rudd would return to the leadership was if he had the unanimous support of caucus.

www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-e6frf7jx-1226144470472

Jason

September 23. 2011 02:07 PM

Trevor

I note the funeral for David Jull was held today.  It would have been interesting if it was yesterday. Would the Lib's dared to have asked for a pair so members could attend?  Perhaps this also influenced the timing of the funeral.

"BTW when does Arthur Sinodinos take up his seat?"

I'm pretty sure he will be there when parliament resumes in a couple of weeks!

Thanks Jason.  I don't expect an immediate impact but I think Sinodinos is one to focus on policy so will be one to watch.

Trevor

September 23. 2011 02:13 PM

Jason

FS,
  "John Ruddick is a self-employed mortgage broker based in North Sydney. He was a candidate for president of the NSW Liberal Party this year running against Arthur Sinodinis."

And over at the drum he has penned this "The short (sorry) story of Labor PMs since 1901"

FFS what's happening over at the ABC?

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2913004.html

Jason

September 23. 2011 02:17 PM

Feral Skeleton

Mr Rudd says, "Take a Bex" on leadership speculation:

www.smh.com.au/.../...ve-a-bex-20110923-1kok0.html

Feral Skeleton

September 23. 2011 02:47 PM

NormanK

Jason

Perhaps I was caught in a cranky moment but I did deliberately choose to use 'we'.
It is all of us collectively as a society that have allowed Hockey and Truss to think that it is okay to belittle the recipient of an award. We are all responsible for the fact that some hack believes it is valid criticism to draw a long-bow comparison between a relatively small operational tweak of a system and the granting of an award that scrutinises a wide range of policy decisions and their implementation. It is all of us that have created a situation whereby a creature such as Abbott can rise to the top of a political party and be within reach of leading the country. Pauline Hanson didn't create a whole swag of racist, protectionist rednecks - they created her and in a sense, we created them.

I have no doubt that the vast majority of the population of Norway are doing a lot of navel gazing to try to figure out how it came to pass that their society bred a beast such as Brievik. I'm no philosopher but in the long sweep of history we are judged as a collective. We are all responsible to some degree for the Howard years. If we end up with an Abbott government, viewers from outside Australia will be entitled to say that Australia has been swamped by a wave of ultra-conservatism. That won't be strictly true because it is more of a slow seep than a wave but the point is that we will be seen as a conservative rather than progressive society.

What can we do? That's very hard to say since we can't all be white knights out to slay the dragons but I guess we can all be part of the alarm system that alerts the knights to the dragon's presence.

That and be nice to each other. Laughing  And not treat each other in the way that Hockey, Truss and Stutchbury have treated Swan.

As an aside: in checking that I have spelled Brievik's name correctly, I came across this:

Mass-Murderer Turns Norway Against Progress Party Xenophobia
by Marianne Stigset and Josiane Kremer

Anders Behring Breivik may have helped silence xenophobia in Norway as voters shun the anti- immigration party he was a member of before he committed the July massacre that left 77 people dead.
Popular support for the Progress Party, the second biggest in Norway's national parliament, fell by 6.1 percentage points to 11.4 percent in a Sept. 12 municipal vote, the group's worst result in 16 years. The Labor Party of Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg, which Breivik targeted in the attacks, won 32 percent of the election, its best result in 24 years.


www.sfgate.com/.../...erg_articlesLRX51807SXKX.DTL

Do 77 people have to die in a vile act of cold-blooded murder for Australians to realise that we are headed down a dangerous and unhealthy path of intolerance and individual greed?

NormanK

September 23. 2011 03:08 PM

NormanK

Curiouser and curiouser.

A 'take it or leave it' approach is being pushed by retail bosses
by Ewin Hannan and Christian Kerr

Meanwhile, former Liberal deputy leader and industrial relations spokesman Neil Brown has unleashed a blistering attack on what he calls the "Work Choices-lite brigade", saying the push for industrial relations reform could "provide a lifejacket for the foundering Labor Party".

Writing in The Spectator Australia out today, Mr Brown says a debate on workplace reform will divert attention from the issues Mr Abbott has successfully promoted.

"Work Choices' problem," the Fraser government minister writes, "is that it is a concept . . . so discredited that any hint of its return or anything that looks like it will unleash a maelstrom of criticism.

"The dispirited Labor Party and union movement, wandering directionless as they are, will be given the cause they desperately need."

Mr Brown, now a Melbourne QC, says Mr Abbott has "wisely kept the lid on the enthusiasm of some his colleagues for advocating a robust free-market policy".

His comments come as senior Liberals say their colleagues are agitating on workplace relations to destabilise Mr Abbott.

"It's just a proxy for the leadership," one said yesterday.


www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59noo3-1226144007225

Watch your back Tony. That paragon of virtue Peter Reith has got a bucket of poo with your name on it.

NormanK

September 23. 2011 03:19 PM

nasking

THEY will send YOU out to DIE for them...

but they don't want to KNOW YOU...

if YOU tell them...and it doesn't fit their BIGOTED agenda...

THEY will BOO you:

Republican Debate Audience Boos Gay Soldier Steven Hill After DADT Repeal Question

Huffington Post

www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...ntorum_n_977105.html

Another dark & twisted tea party courtesy of Fox News & Google

The Repulsive Party gets sicker by the day...clapping executions & sick dying men w/out health insurance...

and now booing brave gay soldiers.

Who would want to fight for a country led by them?

Inspiring.

We the privileged...and We the putrid...as morally developed as thirteen year-olds.

Palin & Perry 2012...

will Roger Ailes be the bridesgroom?...Michelle Malkin the Bridesmaid?...Rush Limbaugh the celebrant?...Glenn Beck the raving loony at the reception?...Sean Hannity the security fella on the door?...Rupert Murdoch the godfather of future spawns come bearing gifts?...

N'

nasking

September 23. 2011 03:29 PM

nasking

will Roger Ailes be the bridesgroom?...

Make that Best Man.

The whole marriage thing confuses me. Smile

N'

nasking

September 23. 2011 03:37 PM

nasking

If there is another economic bump in the road coming...you'd think that real Liberals, as opposed to religious conservative control freaks in guise, would dig gay marriage...creates more economic diversity...and opportunities to make moolah:

www.australianmarriageequality.com/.../

A gamble they might say...seems to me they don't have any problem w/ many other forms of gambling these days.

N'

nasking

September 23. 2011 03:59 PM

nasking

Going by those BOOs & claps at Republican debates...perhaps we should send the Republican tea partiers to smoke a peace pipe w/ the Taliban?

...seems to me they have more in common than they realise.

Tax avoiding patriarchal bigots who luv guns & hate gays...addicted to war-mongering & forbidding good music...who get high on faith.

Could be a real luv/hate fest.  

N'

nasking

September 23. 2011 04:20 PM

jane

I hope a flame thrower is turned on that slag Mirabella. Sounds like a classic case of manipulation and abuse of an old man by a predatory unprincipled gold digger. I trust this turns as nasty as possible for Mirabella. She richly deserves it.

Re the latest round of bullshit on Rudd challenging Gillard, an erect middle finger is all that is needed. The government will forge ahead with it's program and Ltd News will have to manufacture another pack of lies.

Don't worry Nasking, yet another Ltd News and Liars Party beat up and "look over there!" tactic to take the heat off Liealot. Rudd's response is just right. As John Vincent said, the Liars Party should have a bex and a good lie down.

Kathy Jackson, another shadowy player in the ongoing HSU beat up. Sounds like she has a lot of questions to answer, not the least her failure to do anything about the problem which occurred on her watch.

I'm with you psyclaw; she sounds like a very spiteful piece of work, out to destroy Craig Thomson and absolve herself of any responsibility.

jane

September 23. 2011 04:38 PM

jj

I cannot believe the double standards of people on this blog. The piece today in The Age is on par with that produced by Glen Milne in the Australian a few weeks ago. The piece was a jumble of unsubstantiated claims, with the only opinion sought being that of the two aggrieved children. So i ask you, is it ok to write besmirching crap if it is about a member of the Liberal Party but not of the Labor Party? Because what was written in the age was just that... an attempt to smear Mirabella when there is absolutely no evidence of any wrongdoing whatsoever.  

jj

September 23. 2011 04:53 PM

nasking

Some interesting observations about Tony Abbott & David Oldfield here:

ONE NATION, INSIDE-OUT
by
Ben McGinnes

www.adversary.org/.../on-02.html

N'

nasking

September 23. 2011 04:56 PM

nasking

Memories:

Mr Lonely Hearts: cruising with David Oldfield
Author: By BEN HILLS
Date: 11/07/1998
Words: 650
           Publication: Sydney Morning Herald

newsstore.fairfax.com.au/.../viewDocument.ac

N'

nasking

September 23. 2011 04:57 PM

lyn

Hi Ad

Thankyou to Michael for his report this morning on Mirabella,
further to my link to Vex News and then Jane's, and Psyclaw's comments.

This brilliant comment by Bushfire Bill go to link I have only copied a short piece of the article:-

markjs1Mark Shove
Don't miss Bushfire Bill's take on Mrs Sophie Mirabella-Howard...& why she's giving Puff-Adders a bad name: http://bit.ly/qqcFkR #auspol#NBN

Bushfire Bill
Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 9:37 am :-|

Nasty gave as the reason for the strike the unconscienable behaviour of their alleged only mammal member, Ms. Mirabella-Howard, who is currently being sued by the aggrevied relatives of her former lover, now deceased at 83, Professor Howard of Melbourne.

"Ms. Mirabella-Howard was elected to pursue the rights and entitlements of puff-adders everywhere, not to get sidetracked by feeding off the private perks afforded to her by her dementia-afflicted lover," he said.

"Vitriolic, personal attacks, refusals to withdraw unparliamentary words, nasty, spiteful invective on shows such as Q&A and Meet The Press, snarling, curled-lip gossip mongering and slagging off of the Prime Minister via interjections from the Opposition benches, and her prediliction for using far too much bright red lipstick are what Ms. Mirabella-Howard should stick to. These are the things she does well," replied Mr. Nasty when questioned about what he saw as the MP's responsibilities.

blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comments


Here is another article by Independent Australia:-

Sophie Mirabella a gift wrapped present for the Government, Barry Everingham, Independent Australia

Mirabella is a thorn in the side of the dignity of the House of Representatives, where she is an Abbott frontbencher known
for her arrogance and ability to demean those she doesn’t like, and as she waddles to the despatch box to make her
repulsive points, manages to attract many sniggers from both sides of the House.

www.independentaustralia.net/.../

CheersSmileSmileSmile

lyn

September 23. 2011 05:00 PM

psyclaw

jj

You talk of lack of evidence. In reply, these next four words only are needed to trash your view:-

Hypocrite! Remember Craig Thompson.

psyclaw

September 23. 2011 05:02 PM

nasking

Tony seems to enjoy chatting to Oldfield:

www.tonyabbott.com.au/.../...dfield-Radio-2UE.aspx

N'

nasking

September 23. 2011 05:10 PM

Jason

jj,
  The story confirmed what I always thought! that you would have to have dementia to take her as a lover! and that's the kind version.

Jason

September 23. 2011 05:15 PM

2353

Mirabella hasn't been charged with a crime yet so she should be given the same treatment as Craig Thomson has received Smile.  Don't know if Victoria has the equal of Queensland's Adult Guardian - if they do I hope the accusations gets referred to them quickly.

The LNP people who are today complaining about smearing and due process need to remember that you reap what you sow.  Need I remind everyone that Craig Thomson has no case to answer in NSW and no indication to the contrary from Victoria.

As the LNP's hands are (they admit) all over the "Kevin 11" thing - I'm wondering if it's really an admission of failure.  In short, we can't touch the policy or legislation so we'll try to destabilise the country through the leadership of the Government.  

The Carbon Price Legislation will go through, the refugee processing amendments probably not (not that that's a bad thing) - although it gave Hockey something to whinge about on Sunrise this morning, the MRRT will pass and even the stockmarket seems to think the Australian economy is in reasonable shape - as the losses here are nowhere near as severe as other parts of the world (especially those with active "Tea Parties").  FS will probably update me again but there are over 190 pieces of legislation passed in the first year of this Parliament - better than Howard's 100 in his first year.  Really it isn't a bad record!

2353

September 23. 2011 05:21 PM

Feral Skeleton

Jason,
      Have you seen these films? Smile
unguardedmoments.com.au/#1778331/Watch-films

Feral Skeleton

September 23. 2011 05:26 PM

Feral Skeleton

2353,
     Can't update you on the number of pieces of legislation passed but I can say that it is still Zip on the other side, even with the numbers as close as they are in the Lower House. Smile

Feral Skeleton

September 23. 2011 05:27 PM

Jason

FS,
  Thanks for that I'll have a look at them over the weekend.

Jason

September 23. 2011 05:51 PM

Jason

I'm sure Peter V O said he was having Chris Bowen on his show on Sunday.
However this is what is printed at the moment

September 22, 2011 Sunday morning TV - September 25 #auspol Your guide to this Sunday morning's political and business interviewsFull program listing available at: http://sundaymorningtv.posterous.com/
8:30am Sky News 601 - Australian Agenda
On Sky News Australian Agenda Leader of the Government in the Senate and Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Jobs and Workplace Relations Senator Chris Evans. Also, the Minister for Health and Ageing Mark Butler.
Joining host Peter Van Onselen on the Panel, TBA.


8:38am Ch7 - Weekend Sunrise - The Riley Diary
This week political editor Mark Riley looks at a week where a large toilet appears outside parliament and politics immediately heads down the s-bend....no asylum on refugee policy, Swannie the world's worst best treasurer and he says she says Kevin says she's gone.


8:40am Ch9 - Today on Sunday - The Laurie Oakes Interview
The weekly Laurie Oakes interview is in hibernation until further notice.


9:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 - Insiders
On Insiders this Sunday, Barrie Cassidy interviews the Treasurer Wayne Swan from Washington.
On the panel: the Courier Mail’s Dennis Atkins, political commentator Kerry-Anne Walsh and the Sydney Institute’s Gerard Henderson.
And Mike Bowers talks pictures with Courier Mail cartoonist Sean Leahy.


10:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 repeated @ 5.30pm - Inside Business
This week on Inside Business a detailed look at SABMiller”s $12.3 Billion bid for Foster’s.
And they talk to Future Fund Chairman, David Murray.
They also talk to Washington H Soul Pattinson Chairman, Robert Millner.
As well, the latest news from the markets and Alan Kohler’s incisive commentary.


10.00am Ch10 everywhere but Canberra at 4.30pm - The Bolt Report - Check local program guides for encore performance timings later in the day
Queensland Independent MP Bob Katter will join Andrew. Panelists: NSW Labor MP Kristina Keneally and WA Liberal Senator Mathia Cormann.
Plus Clubs Australia CEO Anthony Ball.


10.30am Ch10 everywhere but Canberra at 4.00pm - Meet the Press - Check local program guides for encore performance timings later in the day
Paul Bongiorno is joined by panelists; Claire Harvey of the Sunday Telegraph, and Michael Pachi of Radio 2UE.
Together they interview ACTU President Ged Kearney, and Amnesty International - Refugee Coordinator Dr Graham Thom.

Jason

September 23. 2011 05:54 PM

Bring Back Maxine

Hi AA

I wonder what your Five Concerned Liberals would ask Mr Abbott about his front bencher Sophie Mirabella? Maybe something along the lines that now that the Mirabella / Howard affair has been exposed are you concerned that such a morally formidable person will not challenge your leadership?

Here is what I posted at the Poll Bludger:

Sophie Mirabella / Colin Howard vs Union Credit Card used to pay for escort services.

Isn’t interesting how the MSM have reported both these stories. Someone used a CC to pay for prostitution services, nothing illegal in that. However look at the hysterical outrage at the reportage of that versus nonchalant reportage of the case Mirabella / Howard affair in which several legal and moral questions arise. The Mirabella / Howard affair is treated by the MSM as a non sequitur in comparison.

I just don’t get it. Prostitutes are honest professionals. The fees they charge are known upfront and are fixed. The services they provide are also discussed upfront.They carry out their work in a professional & safe manner, and generally exercise a duty of care to their clients.
Where as in the Mirabella / Howard affair none of the above seem to apply. Tony Abbott should be very worried about the Liberal Party Leadership which he holds due to his high moral assets in dealing with Truth as there now appears a potential challenger with greater moral assets than his. Who wuda thunk that was possible in today’s Liberal Party??

Bring Back Maxine

September 23. 2011 06:06 PM

nasking

I be t'inkin it all works out in the end:

Gangs of New York

www.youtube.com/watch

no matter how confusin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4wzVuXPznk

it's what makes a country...

N'

nasking

September 23. 2011 06:31 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
I'm back at the south coast and have just posted another of AC's clever pieces of satire: Rugby World Cup Wobblies: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-Cup-Wobbles.aspx

Enjoy/

Ad astra reply

September 23. 2011 09:35 PM

jane

Because the credit card affair may involve an ALP MP, while the other involves a nasty Liars Party fortune hunter with bugger all scruples, an eye on easy money and a gob which would make fish wives of yore blanch. Fits perfectly with Liars party values, I'd say BBM.

jane

Comments are closed