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Don’t Barney with Batwoman

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Friday, 28 October 2011 20:52 by Acerbic Conehead
You probably heard that, recently, Julia Gillard was awarded a prestigious “Brave Thinker” award.

But, this is nothing new, as, for a long while in Gotham City, she has been famous for her courageous role in fighting organised crime. There, she is called, “Brave And Thinking Woman”, or BATwoman for short.



So, all the skulduggery in Gotham City has been cleaned up by BATwoman. However, a crew of ne’er-do-wells from the neighbouring Canberra City (which is so unruly, it would make Chicago during the 1920’s look like Shangri-La) has decided to fill the vacuum in Gotham City by taking on the persona of the now-vanquished arch-villains.



These Canberra City desperado exports to Gotham City are, Tony Abbott, Scott Morrison, Barnaby Joyce, Julie Bishop and, with her arms perennially around John Howard, Sophie Mirabella.

Now, the Canberra City dodgy imports are in their new Gotham City hide-out, planning how they can fill the shoes of the arch-crims defeated earlier by BATwoman.

Tones: Right, you lot...Listen up, cos we gotta get a few nice earners going here, so that I can start paying off my great big fat mortgage...And Sophie, get off Johnno’s knee – you’ll squish the poor old bastard...

Sophie: Huh! Stuff your big mortgage, mate! What about my great big fat court costs!

Scott: Yeah, and what about my spending money for my next holiday up in Nauru!

Tones: Alright, alright! I get the picture! But, there’s no need to fret, as it will be like taking candy off a baby – the only thing that’s standing between us and a heap of dosh is that pathetic BATwoman – and she’s only a girl!

[Then, at that moment, the gang hear the noise of an old, clapped-out vehicle coming to a halt outside their hidey-hole. After a few seconds, there’s a knock at the door. Tones opens it.]

Tones (sarcastically): Well...well....well...if it isn’t one of Gotham City’s finest – BATwoman herself! I’m glad you aren’t the Avon Lady, cos we wouldn’t understand a word of your sales pitch, as no-one here speaks Welsh-Gaelic...heh...heh...

Scott: And it sounds like they need to increase the rates here in Gotham City to pay for a new Batmobile for you – that thing outside sounds worse than Kev’s old jalopy ute...heh...heh...

[BATwoman is standing in the doorway with an expression on her face that is even more stern and disapproving than the one she wore when Bill the terrier pooped on her new Persian rug. She is carrying her handbag and has her hands on her hips, indicating she means business.]

Johnny (sarcastically): Hey, we better look out, guys – she’ll be pulling out her pack of Weet-Bix soon and we all know what Popeye’s tin of spinach did for him...haw...haw...

Julie: What I want to know is, why the back alley bitch hasn’t curtseyed to us yet...tee...hee...

[Barnaby also tries to get his two-bob’s worth in, but BATwoman can only stare blankly at him, as what comes out of his gob is pure unintelligible gobbledygook.]

Sophie: Huh, I don’t think it’s BATwoman at all! I think we’re in the Upper Room and bloody Col Gadaffi has been resurrected...bwahahahaha...

[By this stage, steam is literally coming out of BATwoman’s ears.]

Tones: Look guys – Peter Dutton was right all along – she’s nothing but an old boiler...hee...hee...

[BATwoman has had enough. She dismissively brushes past Tones, strides imperiously into the centre of the gang’s den and eyeballs the whole sorry lot of them as only a Brave And Thinking woman could.]

BATwoman (schoolmarmishly): And who do you clowns think you are, bringing your bad Canberra City habits up here with you! I’ll have you know, such a sorry lot I’ve never clapped eyes on before! If you think you can fill the shoes of genuine opponents, like the ones I’ve already finished off, then you have another think coming!

[BATwoman eyes Tones up and down, as if this was a Tea Party and he had asked for a cappuccino.]

BATwoman: Soooooo...let’s start with you, mate. By the look of you, you must think you’re The Joker...

[Tones nods profusely.]

BATwoman: Okay, okay...you can stop that idiotic nodding now – I’m not bloody Mark Riley...And, yeah, your big red lips are a dead give-away – you’ll have to stop skolling the red cordial, mate, pretending you’ve just taken some sort of crazy blood pledge...heh...heh...



[BATwoman then turns to Scott Morrison.]

BATwoman: And you, mate, think you’re The Penguin – am I right?

Scott: Yay! Got it in one! How were you able to pick me so easily?

BATwoman: Huh, it was a cinch, mate...The Penguin was a great lover of birds, so the sea-gull droppings on your coat spoke volumes – you haven’t been to Nauru on your holidays lately, have you...heh...heh...

[Next, it’s Sophie Mirabella’s turn to be placed under the microscope.]

BATwoman: And I reckon you imagine yourself to be the new Poison Ivy...Am I right?

Sophie: Yeah, how’d you guess?

BATwoman: Well, it was pretty obvious, luvvy...the way you are pawing old Johnno here, it looks like you are trying to get your scheming mitts on his Gold Card...hee...hee...

[BATwoman then turns her beady eye on old Johnno himself.]

BATwoman: And you, mate, are trying to impersonate Two Face, aren’t you?

Johnno: Got it in one, lady! How’d you guess?

BATwoman: Huh, I can pick a duplicitous, two-faced bastard a mile off, mate! Your core and non-core promises malarkey is a case in point...

Barnaby: Hey, Brave And Thinking woman...if you are such a great Thinker, work this one out for us – if you were going to build a tennis court, when there are also untreated white ants in your house, should you borrow money to do so, or download movies instead of coals?

[Everyone, including BATwoman, stares incredulously at Barnaby, thinking they are in the company of a cross between Confucius, Stephen Fry, Molly Meldrum and Sir Ian Crisp.]

BATwoman (perfunctorily): Erm...The Riddler, I presume?

[Then, lastly, BATwoman turns her attention to Julie Bishop who, defensively, is brandishing those rapier-like fingernails of hers.]



BATwoman: Aha!!! And you, most definitely, must be Catwoman?

[Tones reckons this farce has gone on long enough, deciding the best form of defence is attack.]

Tones: Okay, guys, let’s get her! When she’s out of the way, all the booty in Gotham City will be ours! Charge!!

[However, BATwoman didn’t clean up the whole of Gotham City without having heaps of gravitas and martial-arts prowess in her personal armoury. Before any of the pretenders can raise a finger to tackle her, she opens up her ubiquitous and trusty handbag and starts to unleash her deadly and powerful array of Superhero logistics.

Firstly, out comes her Aboriginal Reconciliation Batarang – that bat-shaped weapon which resembles a boomerang – and flings it at Scott the Penguin. Upon accurately impacting his scone, he falls unconscious to the floor, even quicker than that time on Nauru, when a seagull, who had been constipated for six months, finally was able to do a dump, which landed smack bang on his crown!

Next, BATwoman brings her attention to Julie “Catwoman” Bishop. She pulls her compact out of her handbag and, with the mirror, reflects the sun’s rays shining through the sky-light into Catwoman’s eyes. “Heh...heh...” laughs BATwoman to herself, “this’ll show ‘em the usefulness of alternative sources of energy...Take that, lady!”

Moreover, this so badly and permanently affected her vision that, henceforth, Julie is always referred to as “Stares”.

Then, Johnny “Two Face” Howard cops it. BATwoman, from her handbag supply, pulls out her NBN weighted hairnet. She flings it across the room, expertly ensnaring Two Face within. “We will decide”, she cackles, “who comes to Gotham City and the circumstances in which they get clobbered...heh...heh...”

The next wannabe to incur BATwoman’s wrath is Sophie “Poison Ivy” Mirabella. BATwoman retrieves her MRRT grappling-hook from her handbag, flings and secures it to a ceiling light-fitting, swings on it across the room towards Sophie and judo chops her with her feet! “Huh”, says BATwoman to herself, “after getting my MRRT treatment, her days of gold-digging are well and truly over...heh...heh...”

Then, BATwoman turns her box of tricks on the hapless Barnaby “The Riddler” Joyce. She pulls out her perfume spray-bottle, filled with weightless, but deadly, CO2, and squirts it into Barnaby’s eyes. “Tee...hee...”, BATwoman giggles, “after that, Barnaby will be so cock-eyed, he’ll be driving into every swollen creek in Queensland...”

So, one by one, the pretenders have been taken out, except Tony “The Joker” Abbott. However, having weighed up the hopelessness of his situation, with none of his cronies left on their feet to protect him, he does a runner. He streaks out the door, press-conference-style, and is over the horizon back towards Canberra City so quick, he makes the Roadrunner on steroids look like Methuselah on his zimmer frame.]

Tones’ erstwhile mates (pleadingly): Please...please, oh great Brave And Thinking One...have mercy on our pitiful souls...we beg of you...

[BATwoman, in no mood to give this scurvy mob any respite, pulls out her lippy from her handbag, indulgently applies copious amounts, removes her charm bracelets, which double up as handcuffs, and secures the losers well and good.]

BATwoman (gleefully): Heh! Holy misnomers! That Abbott guy thinks he’s up to replacing The Joker? Well, with the speed at which he skedaddled away from a fight, I reckon he’s more like The Choker...heh...heh...



Comments (348) -

October 28. 2011 10:21 PM

Feral Skeleton

AcerbicC.,
           The only addition I would have made to this amazingly well-crafted and polished piece of Comedy Gold, is to have had Abbott the Joker bouncing off the walls before he high tales it out of the room, 'press conference style'. I just get that impression of him these days. Smile

Feral Skeleton

October 28. 2011 10:23 PM

Jason

AC,
  I don't know how you do it week after week but I doffs me hat(cap)to you!

Jason

October 28. 2011 10:24 PM

Feral Skeleton

   Just a bit of cross-posting from the last blog because I had just had my say about Julian Assange, and then the new blog went up Frown

     I guess you may not remember this, however, I was suss on Julian Assange right from the get-go. I smelt a rat and his rodentatious nature was confirmed when I, too, sat back and waited and waited and waited, for him to realease the sort of material which any good seaker of 'the truth' would want to finds out from an organisation such as Wikileaks.

  It appears we were titillated with the vision of the American's attack on innocents on the ground, from up on high in a helicopter gunship, however, after that something seemed to go awry. I remember there was a mass defection from Wikileaks of those members of the team who said wtte that Wikileaks was no longer what they had originally signed up for. Basically, it had become a vehicle for Julian Assange's ego.

   Following that, a number of disturbing things occurred. Firstly, Wikileaks began releasing a welter of material that was essentially just warmed-over political gossip, of the type we have been decrying here forever and a day. You know, such as, which diplomat farts in polite company. Yawn. However, for an organisation who had received data from Private Bradley Manning, I would have thought that there would have been juicier info than that to come our way. Maybe even knowledge of a few war crimes comitted by the Americans in their theatres of war, maybe Condoleeza Rice speaking to Colin Powell via e-mail and saying that there never have been any, 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'. That sort of thing. Crickets.

   Which aroused my suspicions. Was there no covertly-obtained information about any conservative government anywhere in the world that had been passed on to Julian Assange? Strange.

   Not to mention the fact that, once notoriety had been achieved by Mr Assange, he used his newly-created global platform to start criticising Progressive Centre Left governments. One may say that he had a right to do this because of the ham-fisted attempts by Robert McClelland to put a cork in Wikileaks, legalistically. However, had it not occurred to Mr Assange that if there had been a Right Wing government in power federally in Australia at this time, heaven forbid, that they would have ruthlessly and clinically have conspired to have Mr Assange rendered unto, at the very least, the Swedish authorities who want him over the sexual assault charges, by conspiring with the Tory government of David Cameron to effect his silence. Not to mention that injunctions would have been slapped, under some very didgy laws, on all the media outlets who had supplies of Wikileaks information; Wikileaks Servers would have been confiscated for 'National Security' reasons, and Mr Assange would have been thrown into the same sort of hell-hole jail as Bradley Manning, most likely on trumped-up Treason charges.

   But no, Mr Assange has to go after the political parties that are actually for transparency when it comes to exposing things like Bush's Rendition of political prisoners like Mamdouh Habib and David Hicks from Australia. Among many, many others things that I thought we might finally find out about.

   Now, I don't know if Mr Assange realises this, but I wonder how he feels about having been co-opted and virtually neutralised by Britain's Establishment? The comfortable lifestyle that his supporters in Britain's demi monde have laid out for him certainly appears to have compromised his independant judgement, right down to sounding like a pompous ass and referring to himself as, "One" (pity there's not a finger down the throat emoticon for that), and falling for the Conservative's Cultural Warrior creed of 'Hate Speech=Free Speech', and you must defend it and us to the death. I would have expected a greater degree of intellectual discernment from 'One' who styles himself as one of the world's pre-eminent cultural iconoclasts.

   Instead, what we appear to have ended up with is just another Andrew Bolt. Someone who has seen a chance and taken it and betrayed whatever ethics they may have originally had in the process just so they could become what they originally despised. A member of a corrupt, amoral Conservative elite.

Feral Skeleton

October 29. 2011 12:43 AM

jane

Gold, AC. I especially like the constipated seagull. Any chance s/he could be persuaded to migrate with some family members and unload on The Choker, the Liars Party and cheerleaders like Anal Jones at stunts like the Convoy of Cretins and lycra infested photo-ops?

I'd also really like to see Vampirella wearing a cloche of seagull shit at every public appearance and seagulls nesting in Bronnie's wig.

jane

October 29. 2011 12:44 AM

Casablanca

PatriciaWA

Flattered that I played some small part in sparking another poem but all the glory goes to you for yet another very apt and witty offering. The pen is indeed mightier than the sword!

Casablanca

October 29. 2011 12:51 AM

jane

Mind you, Casablanca, I wouldn't mind seeing Liealot run through with a well aimed Gillard sword.

jane

October 29. 2011 01:08 AM

Casablanca

One of our local freebies often has an article worth mentioning and it only occurred to me today to check for an online version and bingo there it was:

citynews.com.au/.../

The titleLeadership and the test for a witchsuggested that this was just another anti-Gillard ditch-the-witch meme but in fact it is supportive. The author, Michael Moore is a former Independent member and Minister in a Liberal Cabinet of our modest little parleyment in the ACT.

At a time when there are so many important issues being debated, the mainstream media seems obsessed with leadership speculation.

There is a reason. Seasoned journalists, editors and their followers know that speculation also provides a catalyst for change. Instead of the media being an observer reporting the facts, the interest behind stories and the colour of the political landscape, they can become a key player. They can play a role in bringing about political change.

Lord Acton suggested, in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887, “power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely”. It is a sobering reminder of the concerns for those currently seeking to investigate the media.

Lord Acton’s next words might also provide an understanding of what has happened in the News Limited empire, particularly in the light of the phone hacking scandal in Great Britain: “Great men are almost always bad men.” The question is not whether the media should be free, but rather what are the appropriate constraints?


Worth a read as we each finish our submissions on the media inquiry before the deadline on 31 October:

www.newsstand.org.au/.../make-your-submission


Casablanca

October 29. 2011 01:25 AM

Casablanca

jane

Agree. It would be nice to see Liealot run through by a well aimed Gillard sword. But first I want to see him done slowly by PatriciaWA

Casablanca

October 29. 2011 01:34 AM

Casablanca

TT

I hope for his sake that Gina Rindlard didn't stomp on Prince Philip with stilettoes like the ones that she was teetering around on at the recent mining conference.

Prince Philip pokes fun at Gina Rinehart
October 28, 2011 - 8:29AM

Read more: www.smh.com.au/.../...rinehart-20111028-1mmoz.html

Casablanca

October 29. 2011 02:00 AM

Casablanca

Queen lines up with her people. Phillip Coorey
October 29, 2011

Read more: www.smh.com.au/.../...r-people-20111028-1moaq.html

''I wish heads of government well in agreeing further reforms that respond boldly to the aspirations of today and that keep the Commonwealth fresh and fit for tomorrow,'' the Queen said. ''We should not forget that this is an association not only of governments but also of peoples.''

In her speech Ms Gillard pointed out that the Commonwealth was bound by values, not commerce or trade, and these values of peace, democracy, racial equality, the rule of law and social and economic progress should be ''freely embraced and consensually expressed''.
*****

Brian Loughnane has Grattan and Taylor on the Rudd leadership manoeuvring roster this week-end.

Rudd might have been disorganised in style of government, but he sure knows how to run a campaign - whether a campaign for office in 2007 or, as we're seeing now, a bid to get back the job from which he was unceremoniously ousted.

Read more: www.smh.com.au/.../...to-strut-20111027-1mm1b.html

Libs might be eager, but Labor cautious on Rudd
October 29, 2011 Lenore Taylor


When Kevin Rudd was deposed the party’s primary vote stood at 35 per cent. Now it’s 29 per cent. Photo: Getty Images

It's amazing how many experts there are on the subject of Kevin Rudd's plans to run for the Labor leadership again. In the Liberal Party alone there must be several dozen.

According to their deep inside knowledge he wants the job before the US President, Barack Obama, arrives on November 16, which would leave him just two sitting days (next week) when both the caucus and the incumbent Prime Minister are in Canberra to stage his coup. ''Julia had the Queen but I want Barack,'' he is allegedly saying. To Liberals. To others he is apparently insisting he wants the job in time for the Labor conference in December. Obviously. All those worthy speeches and a barney over gay marriage. You wouldn't want to be sitting on the sidelines for that.


Read more: www.smh.com.au/.../...-on-rudd-20111028-1mnvi.html
*******

Wilkie's destructive gamble
BY JEFF HOUSE
28 Oct, 2011 04:00 AM

It is important to remember that prior to the Prime Minister and Andrew Wilkie agreeing to terms, the Federal Government was already on course to reform poker machines. On the same day that Julia Gillard replaced Kevin Rudd, the Government released the Productivity Commission's final report into Gambling in Australia. Jenny Macklin and Nick Sherry issued a press release which stated:

''The first priority for the Australian Government will be to progress a nationally consistent pre-commitment model for electronic gaming machines''.

It went on to say: ''The Australian Government is committed to a thorough process ... consulting closely with community groups, industry and relevant employee and employer groups on the Productivity Commission's findings''.

At this point, there was a reasonable pathway identified to progress the Commission's work in a constructive and consultative fashion.

Clubs publicly supported this approach and called it a ''victory for common sense''.

And then Wilkie happened.


www.canberratimes.com.au/.../2338993.aspx


Casablanca

October 29. 2011 10:05 AM

TalkTurkey

Swordsfolks
You have a little over 50 hours left to send a rocket . . . .

Here's Avaaz's plea to us all:

"Dear friends across Australia,


Murdoch is working to discredit the media inquiry that we fought hard to win. We have just two days to flood the inquiry with public comments supporting media reform, and save this historic chance to clean up our media. Send your message now and forward to everyone:



The media inquiry we fought hard to win is under threat -- Rupert Murdoch's newspapers are working to discredit and limit the investigation into his stranglehold on our media. But a flood of public comments from each of us will set an ambitious agenda and save the inquiry.

Our media is broken. Murdoch owns 70% of Australia's newspapers and weak regulation lets him manipulate the news we read freely. This media inquiry is a once-in-a-generation chance to fix this and other problems with media independence -- it's why we campaigned tirelessly for months for this moment. One last push can stop Murdoch's attempt to weaken the investigation for good.

But we only have two days to act. Send a personal message to the media inquiry and it will be entered into the public record -- pushing a wide agenda that includes Murdoch and his media monopoly. Then forward this message to everyone:

www.avaaz.org/en/australia_media_inquiry/?vl

Change is in the air -- Murdoch’s power in the UK has collapsed with the phone hacking scandal, and across Australia there is strong public support for reform. This is the opportunity we’ve been waiting for, and Murdoch knows it.

His papers are working overtime to discredit voices that threaten his power, calling the inquiry the “first step to totalitarianism” and doing what they can to keep the expert panel’s purview as narrow as possible. But if enough of us speak out now, we can make sure the media inquiry makes recommendations to roll back the dangerous concentration of power crushing the diversity of our media.

Avaaz members worked tirelessly to urge PM Gillard to go ahead with the inquiry. Now, a strong and far-reaching set of recommendations from the expert panel will create the political mandate for the government to save our media. These are within our grasp -- but only if they hear from us now. Send your message directly to the panel now, and forward widely:

www.avaaz.org/en/australia_media_inquiry/?vl

Earlier this year, Avaaz members helped win a media inquiry despite Murdoch’s stiff opposition. In the UK, we forced Murdoch to drop his bid for a complete takeover of British broadcaster BSkyB. We’ve been taking on battles no one thought we could win and reclaiming the media space for informed public debate. Together we can make this inquiry a defining victory for press freedom and democracy in Australia and around the world.

With hope,
Stephanie, Laura, Brant, Paul, Emma, Ari, Ricken, Milena and the whole Avaaz team


More information:

Official Independent Media Inquiry homepage (DBCDE):
www.dbcde.gov.au/.../independent_media_inquiry

Government flags wide-ranging media inquiry (ABC News):
www.abc.net.au/.../2897136

PM pressured over media inquiry (The Age):
www.theage.com.au/.../...quiry-20110817-1iy8d.html

The Murdoch media game-changer (ABC News):
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2798930.html


Support the Avaaz Community!
We're entirely funded by donations and receive no money from governments or corporations. Our dedicated team ensures even the smallest contributions go a long way."

[It would be no bad thing if people's submissions were also published here . . . ]    


TalkTurkey

October 29. 2011 10:21 AM

Ad astra reply

AC
Your capacity to come up with such withering and amusing satire week after week is a joy to us all.  Thank you.  I like the Batwoman image for our PM, and hope the images in the first YouTube clip translate figuratively into political reality for her and us.

Ad astra reply

October 29. 2011 10:21 AM

Ad astra reply

Folks
Yesterday was a red-letter day for me – I believe it was the first day that I neither saw Tiny Abbott on TV or heard him on ABC radio, leaving Julia Gillard to dominate the local political news – and wasn’t she impressive.  I suppose the MSM found some fault with her, but to me she represented us stylishly and competently.  After all the abuse heaped upon her and the denigration she has had to endure, she showed her true mettle on the international scene, hosting and chairing CHOGM with charm and proficiency.  She made me feel proud.

Ad astra reply

October 29. 2011 10:48 AM

debbiep



AC

Great to read whilst loudly listening , head bobbing, (& can't help dancing to),  the Joker & the Thief Wolfmother Smile

debbiep

October 29. 2011 11:58 AM

Michael

Peter slips one to Tony.

You might have to go behind the paywall via the paste this link into Google method...

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg95x-1226180030337

but if you do, you'll find an article that contains this paragraph about Peter Reith maintaining why the PM should NOT intervene in the Qantas disputes.

'Mr Reith added: "I understand that the short-term politics for the Coalition is to make Qantas the PM's problem but I find it rather strange to hear Tony Abbott say that Julia Gillard should step into the dispute. I thought Tony's position was that Julia is a hopeless negotiator and everything she touches turns to mud. So why would the opposition want the government involved? The answer seems to be that they do not otherwise have a policy response."'

Imagine that? Someone reckoning that the Coalition under Shouldabeen has a "short-term politics" agenda to create issues that reflect negatively on the PM rather than focusing on how to solve those issues with alternative policy.

This Peter Reith fellow, lucidly as the quoted paragraph reads, seems to be marooned in history!! Doesn't he understand, Coalition policy is 'slag the scrag'? Anything else is too hard.

Michael

October 29. 2011 11:59 AM

Patricia WA

Batwoman!   Brilliant AC!  ROFL stuff!  I'll try to think up an even remotely worthy PS to that!

Casablanca, thanks for your compliment on Royal Blush which I will copy and later store with my revised edition of it at polliepomes.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/royal-blush/ so it's there to reminisce over in my fading years!

I'm trying to update my commentary on it, to give it a context, and I'm stuck trying to find a video clip to link to of the joint Cameron/Gillard presser where carbon pricing was discussed at some length.  I have the official CHOGM transcript link, but surely it's of such significance it should be featured on ABC news somewhere.  

I can't find it anywhere.  Is that somehow sinister, or my inept IT skills?



Patricia WA

October 29. 2011 12:00 PM

Feral Skeleton

   For all of us who believe that News Ltd. are functionally unable to write a rational article about the PM and her government, you may be interested in this:

www.couriermail.com.au/.../story-e6frerdf-1226180030687

Feral Skeleton

October 29. 2011 12:22 PM

psyclaw

TT
Here's my note to the Media Inquiry. Cheers.


To Australia's Independent Media Inquiry:

I urge this Inquiry to take its gloves off and identify some teeth to keep the Australian media honest. That is all that is required to obviate the need for shows like Media watch.

I demand such teeth to ensure that incidents like the Bolt court case, the recent Today Tonight story exposed by Media Watch (based 100% on falsehoods about the "great" life asylum seekers have here), and the "ARL/NFL have joined Clubs Australia to do adverts in the footy Finals" episode (also completely wrong, based 100% on falsehoods and exposed again by Media Watch) incur substantial penalties, including personal penalties.


Reprehensible comments ("the PM and Mr Brown to sea in a chaff bag") broadcast by radio shock jocks are actually founded on  deliberately building up of an emotional climate, which is created by liking  and broadcasting day after day, many deliberate falsehoods. An honesty requirement and appropriate penalties would reduce such conduct.

Many have and will scream that regulatory mechanisms such as this destroy free speech. It would not. It would only destroy media free speech which is deliberately untrue  and blind Freddy can see that this would be a good thing.

I demand also that the Inquiry examine anew the issue of media ownership regulations both across the media and within each medium. Blind Freddy can also see that some of the current concentrations of media ownership, notably by the Murdoch Group are well beyond the pale.


Sincerely,

psyclaw

October 29. 2011 12:25 PM

psyclaw

Poor editing..I'll have to resednd.

Para 3, line 3, word 7...."linking"Ezekiel uitsou

psyclaw

October 29. 2011 12:27 PM

psyclaw

Really bad day!

Typed Captcha words (Ezekiel uitsou) into text. Sorry for confusion

psyclaw

October 29. 2011 12:44 PM

psyclaw

FS
Thanks for the Courier link.

Denis Atkin's article is a fair call. Of all the News writers, he's one of the few inclined to fair comment. His conduct on Insiders is usually fair too.

I think he's hit the nail on the head. If Labor does zero more reform between now and 2013, their record for the 2010-2013 parliament would be second to none.

Consolidating and quietly bedding down the NBN, ETS and MRRT should be the priority.

Of course the National Disability Insurance is yet to come but surely Abbott won't make that controversial and partisan. (What a fool I am writing that!). Anyway I think that legislation will be a good winner for JG whatever Abbott says, and a magnificent winner to families ith children with a disability.

However a bit more dust is still to be unsettled regarding the Migration policy.

psyclaw

October 29. 2011 01:08 PM

Acerbic Conehead 2

FS,
Yes, he’s a real joker, isn’t he?
A number of commentators have said Tones’ fortunes are turning.  About time, I reckon.

Jason,
Thank you for your kind remark.  I suppose it comes down to the enjoyment I get from writing.  We have a great cause going on here at TPS, so I’m only too glad to chip in.
And thanks again for the info on the weekend’s political viewing.  Inciters looks like it may be bearable this Sunday with Laura and George on.

Jane,
Yes, Tones and his mob thought Nauru was an El Dorado for them.  However, it has turned to quicksand instead.  Couldn’t happen to a nicer crew.

AA,
Thank you, and it is my great pleasure to be associated with The Political Sword.  Ever since I first came across your writing, I have been a fan.  Long may your wisdom and insightfulness continue!

debbiep,
I’m glad you enjoyed the piece and especially the Wolfmother track.
During my research, I read that some of the big Canadian ice-hockey and US grid-iron teams use “The Joker and the Thief” as an intro to pump up their fans.  A tremendous accolade for an Aussie band.

Michael,
Thanks for that link to the Peter Reith article.  Yes, there’s no fury like that of a lover scorned.

PatriciaWA,
Thank you for your link to the Royal Blush poem.  I’m looking forward to you doing something on BATwoman.

Acerbic Conehead 2

October 29. 2011 02:07 PM

Casablanca

THE AUSTROLLIAN via Google Paste and Search


Sick Labor marked down on health and education. Peter Van Onselen

Political support for Labor is sick and, at the moment, the issues are defining it, not the other way round. But according to Newspoll, even if Labor returned to its traditional stamping grounds, the public has already lost faith in its management credentials.

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn53lw5p-1226179852552

ALP needs to get over itself on uranium to India.  Paul Kelly

WITH Julia Gillard's foreign policy in the spotlight the issue cannot be ignored: how long will the obsolete and discredited ALP policy be allowed to prejudice Australia's ties with India, the emerging third biggest economy in the world?

Gillard's theme these days is Australia's ability to adapt to the new Asian century, yet such claims are mocked by her government's incapacity to conduct foreign policy on merit.

That the ALP national conference should continue to impair Australia's economic and strategic interests is intolerable. If this situation continues uncorrected at the December national conference then the Gillard government must be held to account for allowing Labor's antiquated obsessions about uranium and nuclear power to prevent Australia from following an India policy that its ministers know to be desirable and inevitable.


www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fnapmixa-1226179958459

Greece's minor role in tragedy. George Megalogenis

AS the founders of Western civilisation, the Greeks surely had the first option to destroy it through indolence.

Every Western nation recognises the Greek disease. The first symptom is an itch in the hip pocket. The government, respecting the will of the people, responds with the balm of middle-class welfare. No one asks the politicians to explain where the cash came from, because which voters think that far ahead? But when the third party in the transaction - the lender - wants their money back, they all go mad together.


www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg7ex-1226179948111

Nothing in common. Greg Sheridan


THE Commonwealth is the comic-book Phantom of international organisations. It is the ghost that walks. Like some flickering afterlife of the long-dead British Empire, or the light our telescopes can discern travelling to us from a star that imploded billions of years ago, the Commonwealth is form without substance, emanation without source.

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fnapmixa-1226179953385

Casablanca

October 29. 2011 02:16 PM

jane

Casablanca @1.08am, "setting the constraints". Three very important words wrt the media inquiry.

I sent my submission a few days ago. I hope that a mountain of submissions in support of constraints on media bias have landed in their laps.

Michael, well, well. Fancy Reith giving Liealot a serve. But knowing the slimy two faced git that is Reith, I'm unsure how to read this. You have to subject everything he says to the most exacting forensic investigation. But I guess it's still one in the eye for Liealot.

Re Wilkie, I'd completely forgotten that the government was already considering legislation with Clubs Australia onside. In light of that, what prompted Wilkie to do the bull in a china shop impersonation?

Perhaps he was afraid that pokies legislation had been put on the back burner? Even so, having a quiet word with the PM would surely have been the way to go to check progress. After all, the Greens and Xenophon in the Senate would ensure the legislation would be passed.

AFAIK, the legislation hasn't even been written yet, so Clubs Australia seems to have jumped the gun as well. But in view of the article in the link, perhaps they think they've been double crossed.

Time for the PM's negotiating skills to get some exercise, I think. She obviously needs to mollify Clubs Australia and Wilkie. Glad it's her and not me; I'd be inclined to knock their heads together and that's why she's PM and not me.

FS, thanks for the link to the Denis Atkins article. A welcome well thought out realistic piece lacking the usual hysteria and hyperbole attached to anything News Ltd writes about the government or the PM.

He still seems to have bought into the leadership crisis meme, but really just as a passing mention.

I enjoyed reading his analysis; not a word about what Sir Liealot the Mendacious had to say. Pretty much what you'd expect from a good journo plying his/her craft.

psyclaw, great submission. Covered all bases, I feel very envious of your wordsmithing.

jane

October 29. 2011 02:20 PM

Ad astra reply

Fs
That is a reasonable article from Dennis Atkins.  He is usually fairly balanced  - an uncommon trait in News Limited.

Ad astra reply

October 29. 2011 02:28 PM

Ad astra reply

PatriciaWA
I liked your poem and your comment on polliepomes.  How true.

Michael
I couldn’t get beyond the first two paragraphs of the Reith article, but it was enough to indicate that Reith is out to put Abbott in his place when he puts a foot wrong.  He won’t easily forget Abbott ratting on him over his vote for President of the Liberal Party.  Reith has along memory and is nasty, even to his own.

Ad astra reply

October 29. 2011 02:45 PM

Feral Skeleton

Amazing how Peter Hartcher can turn 4 impressionable(ie probably influenced by just the sort of thing he writes day in,day out), childrens' speech subjects into yet another, 'This government has lost the plot, is a failure, leadership challenge' piece ?

www.smh.com.au/.../...the-nose-20111028-1moih.html

   Also, you may be interested to know that I have been taking the fight up to Phil Coorey directly about that dire piece he wrote the other day. He abused me directly and said I didn't know what I was talking about wrt Kevin Rudd's 'silence' on Pokies Pre Commitment action and how that played into Rudd's nascent leadership ambitions.  He said that because I'm not there on the ground, like he is, I don't know what I'm talking about. I replied that he doesn't know who he's talking to and what I might know different to the Chinese Whispers from self-interested parties that he is quoting as fact and some sort of done deal as far as Kevin Rudd mounting a deadly stealth campaign to retake the ALP leadership from Julia Gillard. Apparently, Kevin Rudd has let it be known that he wants to be PM again before President Obama gets here on November 17. Which leaves a whole 2 parliamentary sitting days to effect his coup....Not to mention that just about everyone in the Labor Caucus still has Stockholm Syndrome from the last time he conned them into making him leader. Which is where the story ends, really. No matter the Rudd machinations and the media support, the public may even have warmed to him again(although I wouldn't even guarantee that outside of Queensland), a majority of the Labor Caucus don't want him back, for a variety of reasons. Not to mention the fact that the Problem Gambling policy is popular in the electorate, and anyone thinking they can start their new Prime Ministership off by backing down on another popularly-supported policy, has got to have rocks in their head. And they are definitely not the Rock Star in the community they believe themselves to be.

Feral Skeleton

October 29. 2011 02:45 PM

Ad astra reply

Casablanca
Thank you for the snippets from The Oz.  A few lines are enough to get the drift.  They could not let Julia Gillard have her moment of credit at CHOGM without the pontifical Greg Sheridan getting on his hobbyhorse about the Commonwealth, Paul Kelly huffing and puffing about selling uranium to India, and the junior woodchuck PvO seemingly basing his piece on Newspoll results, as if they are already set in stone.  The only balanced piece will be Mega’s.

Ad astra reply

October 29. 2011 02:54 PM

Feral Skeleton

Michael,
        Shouldn't that be 'slag the lying scrag'? Don't ever forget what a liar she is. However, do quickly forget what an admitted-liar Tony Abbott is, and John Howard was. Smile

   Anyway, it was the Head of ACCI who finally got it right yesterday when he said(without thinking that he was torpedoing Tony Abbott's argument and 'killer' talking point), that it was The Greens fault for having caught the PM in a lie after the election by forcing a Carbon Tax upon her.

Feral Skeleton

October 29. 2011 03:08 PM

Feral Skeleton

psyclaw,
        Word is that the wrinkles have been ironed out of the MRRT and Wayne Swan is thus ready to present it to parliament in the next sitting. Smile

   I'm just waiting to see how Tony Abbott, Mr 'Nonsense On Stilts' himself, will explain how he is going to take an extra 3% Super and 1% reduction in Company Tax, plus the Tripling of the Tax Free Threshold off the electorate.

   You know, it's articles such as Dennis Atkins'which give me hope that Mr Abbott's chickens are starting to come home to roost.  

   There seems to me to be a bit of a schism developing in the Press Gallery atm between those who are the 'Early Adopters', so to speak, of the notion that this government is actually working it out as they go along and doing good things for the nation, cf with those, such as Phil Coorey and Peter Hartcher, who see themselves as 'Palace Intriguers', hiding behind the drapes in the Corridors of Power and seeking to exert some influence on precedings.

   It only just occurred to me how important it was to tip the balance in favour of those like Atkins, who are struggling manfully to break from the Press pack, as I listened to yet another day of Heraldic music and fawning commentary about QE2. I just thought to myself, even the recalcitrant malcontents in WA and Queensland, with more money than sense these days, could be made to see the light about Julia Gillard if she was treated like this by the media.

Feral Skeleton

October 29. 2011 04:02 PM

jane

FS, I'll bet Coorey is in a darkened room licking his wounds and softly moaning after his mauling by you. Are your claws still all nice and sharp? There's a few more w@nkers in the msm to be sorted.

I really don't think Rudd hankers after the PMship these days. It's obvious that he revels in his role as Foreign Minister and that he's having an absolute ball doing the job. He's found his niche and has decorated it.

I wonder if the British press has decided to give His Crassness the full treatment after he was found loitering around David Cameron's bedroom door, begging for an audience? I sincerely hope so.

Why, in the name of *God, couldn't this moron have arranged a meeting weeks ago? It's not like CHOGM and its attendees has been a closely guarded secret.

Just because Emperor Rupert has elevated him to demi-god status here, doesn't mean that the likes of David Cameron et al can't see him for the wanker that he is.

If the press had uniformly behaved as Denis Atkins and Laura Tingle, we would have had decent commentary on both the government and the opposition.

Liealot would have been forced to take the position of LOTO seriously and would have had his two bob's worth when the CEF legislation was being formed.

But he would have been dispensed with long ago if the press had done their job properly and we might have an opposition worth its salt, not a mob of wreckers who quite clearly care only about their own aggrandisment and the country can go to hell!






*Insert the deity of your choice

jane

October 29. 2011 04:45 PM

Feral Skeleton

jane,
     It appears Sir Reversalot has already decided to do a backflip with pike, even before the Opposition Caucus meeting this coming week in parliament, wherein he had confidently predicted that they would not be for turning on the tap of more Nanny Statism when it came to Poker Machine Problem Gambling reforms. Well, that is, if this story is to be believed:

   au.news.yahoo.com/.../

  On the other hand, of course, Abbott may well just string Xenophon along for a few days, then go back to saying whatever he was before.

   You know I think that's why he has that funny gait. It's what comes from walking both sides of the street all the time. Laughing

Feral Skeleton

October 29. 2011 04:56 PM

Feral Skeleton

  How exactly is the ALP ímpairing Australia's economic and strategic interests'??? The economy, under global circumstances, couldn't be in better shape, as for 'strategic interests', that's pretty much whatever you want to make of it, well, at least as far as Paul Kelly is concerned.

   I suppose, if by 'impairing economic interests' you mean not letting the resource rapists go full tilt without environmental or financial constraint, well, I guess so. However, that's not exactly how I want my government to operate. I also want them to impose an MRRT, thanks for nothing Xstrata, BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto.

Feral Skeleton

October 29. 2011 05:02 PM

jane

FS, Sir Reversalot. The laddie's not for turning. ROFLMAO Classic comedy gold.

jane

October 29. 2011 05:41 PM

2353

FS - well done for your "discussion" with Phillip Coorey.  I do like the Rudd will take the leadership back in the next two sitting days story.  Surely, sooner or later, most people that read crap like that will remember that they have been getting the same story for something like 18 months now.

There are two possible outcomes here; either the writers of the continuing saga believe if they write it time and time again, sooner or later they will be correct; or two they write crap and need to be called out on it.  Personally I suspect it's the second due to the continual reduction of newspaper circulation numbers and the desperate attempt to regain revenue by paywalling the NoNews title that is supposed to lead the agenda (with the intent that if you want to lead the agenda you pay through the nose!).

I won't be giving my name and email address to Avaaz despite the need for a media enquiry - the reason being that they will "contact me in regard to other campaigns".  I don't support any site that sends me marketing emails and don't have any "social networking" accounts.  The benefit to me is (apart from the "need" to update social media accounts regularly) I don't get spammed often and spend less of my time deleting email that has no relevance to me.  

2353

October 29. 2011 05:56 PM

nasking

So the people of Australia are fed up w/ a minority government eh? It's not working for them.  There's been a "series of policy debacles". The Greens and independents are possibly to blame. Or factional powerbrokers.

Issues pollies deal w/ are "marginal" & "irrelevant" or even "controversial" (holy smokes!!!).  Furthermore, there's a "lack of policy ambition in post-Rudd Australia".

They're concerned about their democracy.

All according to Peter Hartcher by way of an opinion piece citing some school kids, an ANU poll & polster...and Rebecca Huntley, the director of the Ipsos Mackay Report:

Minority government is on the nose
October 29, 2011

www.smh.com.au/.../...the-nose-20111028-1moih.html

I guess Fairfax's Hartcher is gonna get the attention he seeks for this lame article...as Phil Coorey did w/ the dopey leadership one.

Both can be superb writers & observers...but it seems they've decided to be attention-seeking cynics &/or sh*t stirrers Murdoch empire/shock jock style to help drag in the readers...rather than informing readers of the benefits to come w/ many of the government's policies...and their accomplishments. Material is cherry-picked, oft selected to present a negative case when it comes to PM Gillard & the government.  

Not surprising considerin' some of the garbage flowin' from Fairfax radio jocks since the leadership changes.

Seems to me that too many of the corporate opinion writers these days are thinkin' more about pleasing the bosses and ensurin' job security rather than demonstrating the integrity they once had.

I don't expect journos to become a propaganda machine for this or any other government, nor be a f/t apologist...but I do expect a fair weighing up of the facts.

The fact is, democracy in Australia is now robust...partly because we have a wider & more varied info pool to draw upon...thnx to the internet & ABC24...and the establishment of "issue"/citizen action groups such as GetUp...

and due to the fact we have a "minority government"...wherein the views of progressive country folk (Independents), Greens, various labour & business groups are expressed by way of policy formation & implementation (the recent tax & job forums were extremely informative for those who took the time to hear them out)...a damn site more democratic than the Howard government's reckless & stubborn approach when it came to the Iraq War & the Regional Rorts Scheme.

I fail to see how a one-party dominated state could be more "democratic".

The idea that dealing w/ the plague of gambling in this country is too "controversial" or "irrelevant" goes to show how short-sighted, ignorant &/or full of crap some influential Australians are...one only needs to look at the damage that rampant gambling has caused...the underlying corruption & criminal activities related to this scourge in places such as America, China, Russia & Mexico to realise this is not a "minor" issue...but rather one of the top priorities in a world that is becoming more interconnected by the day...a world w/ only so much revenue at its disposal, that cannot afford to ignore the cost of damaging industries such as gambling, fast food, cigarettes & alcohol.

It might sound boring...civil right's restricting...some usual suspects who benefit from sh*t stirring & who have few & weathervane principles might refer to "harm minimisation" as "nanny state" stuff or "political correctness"...

but let's be honest here...we all know the serious damage these industries can cause when permitted to be rampant...when given the opportunity to use their big bucks to buy our so called "representatives"...and advertise just about everywhere bar yer innards. They bombard people w/ their messages...and undermine just about every attempt to get out the facts related to their deletarious effects on humanity.

It's time we grew up...and faced the facts...and woke up to the propaganda machines & their sources of funding.

As for gay marriage, it's about bloody time. It makes no sense to continually undermine the rights of citizens who contribute as much to society as the rest...to insult by way of neglect.

The idea that it's okay for heteros to be married in a gamblers' hell such as Las Vegas...yet my mates in Sydney & Brissie are spurned because of the archaic & biased ramblings of religious folk interpreting confusing "riddle" texts or the pontificators of said texts, well it's enuff to make ya wonder why every critic of gay marriage doesn't dream of a time when they could huddle in a monastery drinking horrid ale & eating gross boiled meat, waiting for the moment the King's men rode passed, so they could return to poaching on the King's land

- goin' by the hordes of Royal well-wishers that turned out for the non-elected, hereditary ruler the past week you'd think many Aussies would prefer them bygone days of undemocratic rule -

and what a missed financial opportunity...gay marriage could help fill the revenue coffers & bring in further tourism in a country desperate for a few "visitors" these days. Again, certainly not a "minor" issue.

So enuff of this bunkum Mr. Hartcher...how about doin' a bit of educatin' the cyncis & misinformed...you might actually be able to live w/ yerself down the road...and be doin' the public a favour. And earn some respect.

It doesn't always have to come down to "follow the leader" and "give the middle finger & they will come".

N'

nasking

October 29. 2011 06:54 PM

nasking

BTW, thnx for the good larf AC. I needed it. Amazing how you come up w/ these oh so apt satirical pieces week after week. Well done!!!

We received great news related to my partner. S' had two polyps removed from her colon during the medical procedures but both were benign...we are so relieved...and another test came back negative for cancer cells. We were finally able to sleep better last night, for the first time in weeks. Still more tests to go...and they will become a yearly/every second year trial due to Lynch Syndrome...but so far so good.

My father is recovering from his heart procedure and was extremely optimistic on the phone (he lives in Canada)...seventy-five and still finding life a buzz...it was great chattin' to him. His arteries still need work...but at least he's bein' positive and pro-active. No black dog visitin' there. I'm so proud of him...he motivates/inspires me.

As for our ill cat Midnight, the news is not as good...he has serious renal problems and is really struggling...w/ the help of the brill vet we're doin' what we can, hopin' he has a major infection rather than chronic kidney problems...he's a fighter...but we have to be realistic, this is an uphill battle...so our mood is not as uplifted as might be based on my wife's news. The yin & yang of existence. Can be very confusing.

Anyway, fingers crossed.
Many thnx to Ad, Talk Turkey, Jane & Gravel for yer supportive comments. They helped.

Lastly, was watchin' a recordin' of Erin Burnett on CNN today and noticed a promotion for Talk Asia...apparently PM Julia Gillard will be the guest. Worth checkin' out. I think it's on Wed pm here.

N'

nasking

October 29. 2011 07:21 PM

nasking

What an absolute jerk Alan Joyce of Qantas has turned out to be...you'd think a man from his background could sit down and negotiate w/ the average worker...but no, he's another who has forgotten his past and become yet another greedy corporate fascist. Shame on him.

How many times have we seen thse CEOs & other corporate execs come up w/ plans to reduce the power of unions & workers...w/ the excuse they need to outsource, move offshore, amalgamate etc. in order to make the company more viable...yet they always seem to find heaps of money/bonuses for themselves having failed to make the company "profitable".

Profitable for who? The FEW.

Multi-national corporations expect allegiance & loyalty from regular staff...but they have no loyalty to their country of origin or staff, apart from the chosen few.

They are oft opportunistic profiteers run by a few greedy major shareholders...using the usual suspect corporate media to do their hatchet work.

Rich bullies...assisting rich bullies. Doin' over the workers...even customers.  

Everything that is wrong w/ our planet today.

Joyce should GO now.

BOOOO...no fair-go here...from Mr. moneybags...flown in from Ireland to do the corporate mongrels dirty work. Just like the American(s) who damaged Telstra.

Shame on the enablers...Premiers in NSW & Victoria.  

N'

nasking

October 29. 2011 07:25 PM

nasking

Also, you may be interested to know that I have been taking the fight up to Phil Coorey directly about that dire piece he wrote the other day.

Feral,
good stuff. Smile
Two thumbs up.

N'

nasking

October 29. 2011 07:39 PM

Feral Skeleton

   I'm in shock! I can see the Liberal Party's grubby fingerprints all over this unprecedented action, taken this afternoon, by Alan Joyce and Leigh Clifford, of Qantas, against their own workers. Also, attempting to bring the travelling public into the fight they are having with the Unions, who are simply seeking a Fair Day's Pay for a Fair Day's Work, in order, simply, to keep up with inflation, and job security for themselves.

   I smell a Liberal Rodent. I would not put it past Tony Abbott and the CDoalition to conspire with Qantas' management to bring about this action whilst CHOGM, and the heads of 54 countries from around the globe, were in Australia, and the PM was getting some clear air.

   Ad Astra, you wondered why you hadn't seen Tony Abbott in the media for the last 24 hours, and how strange it was. Well, I think you've now got the answer to your puzzlement. He was laying low, and, more than likely, planning this move with the West Australians, Joyce and Clifford. I say the West Australians because, as I have been watching this incident unfold this afternoon, the airwaves have immediately become infect6ed with obviously Right Wing Aviation 'Analysts', who have been spouting transparently scripted lines and attempting to frame this debate in Qantas Management's favour from the get-go.

   One of the most obviously self-serving lines coming from everyone from Alan Joyce all down the line to the WA Analysts(funny that, their coming from WA, which has an ever-expanding Fly In, Fly Out Mining Aviation Industry), is that "No one's job is secure in Australia these days." Well, that's news to me. I thought that was the whole point of ditching WorkChoices, that is, to bring back a degree of job security for the workers.

   As I said, this whole action has the odour of Eau de Liberal Party all over it. I imagine they were trying to lay a trap for the PM to get involved in the dispute earlier but she didn't take the bait immediately. Imagine how it would have looked if she had been negotiating in good faith and this stunt got pulled on her with all the attendant bovine excrement that would have been pre-prepared to go against her.

   And, even as I type this, guess whose ugly mug has conveniently popped up on ABC News 24. Yup, Peter 'Balaclavaed Vicous Dogs' Reith. Oh, and, surprise, surprise, he's calling the perfectly reasonable Industrial Action taken by the Qantas employees, "Guerilla Warfare against Qantas".

   If you want to know why the 99% are demonstarting against the 1% who want to rule the world, well now you have it in full technicolour before your very eyes. The 1% play dirty, they play mean, and they play to win. We cannot let them. Or the Road to Serfdom will be paved with workers' bones, blood, sweat and tears.

Feral Skeleton

October 29. 2011 08:09 PM

nasking

Another corporate dictator speaks:

Mr Packer, who is executive chairman and owns 45.6 per cent of Crown Shares, today warned shareholders he would not let the board be dismantled.

"If we receive a second strike again next year we will be left in the farcical position of the board being subject to a spill. If that happens I will use my votes to ensure all directors are voted back in immediately," he said at the annual meeting at Crown Casino in Melbourne.


www.smh.com.au/.../...over-pay-20111027-1mlc8.html

I always wondered why so many Australians live such a basic life compared to many overseas that also have rich resources...

why there is so little industry/work diversity...

why the governments have been forced in the past to get rid of free education & have little affordable healthcare in the dental, disability & mental health areas...

but it's obvious now...

there are a lotta greedy corporate people in this country who dominate...who suck the blood outa the rest of the country...

and many of them have inherited money/assets...done stuff all to help the country...

and we even have CEOs & private equity funds come in from overseas & rape & pillage...partially to weaken the workers' & unions' power & conditions.

This country is bein' RAIDED by PREDATORS.

The worst kind.

The corporate aristocrat.

BTW, I noticed Dick Smith conveniently didn't criticise Alan Joyce & the board for the pay rises...just criticised the unions & government.

I know where I won't be shopping this Xmas.

Furthermore, my stepmum & her hubby are comin' here from America at the end of next year...if a certain CEO is around I won't be recommendin' a certain airline...nor the one that the neo-Libs appear to be helpin' by this grotesque extraordinary move.

Wasn't surprised to see the ultimate HATCHET MAN for the Libs on tele...Peter Reith.

Another campaign to screw the workers & their protectors.

It's happenin' across the world...via "austerity measures", "bailouts", free trade agreements, share market predators...

the list goes on.

Time for the protests against the fascist corporate system to  FOCUS here in Australia on the morally bankrupt.

Reveal THE CON...THE SCAM...THE THEFT...THE TREACHERY...THE BULLYING.

N'

nasking

October 29. 2011 08:18 PM

nasking

I smell a Liberal Rodent. I would not put it past Tony Abbott and the CDoalition to conspire with Qantas' management to bring about this action whilst CHOGM, and the heads of 54 countries from around the globe, were in Australia, and the PM was getting some clear air.

Of course Feral...they couldn't allow the PM to get a bounce off CHOGM. No way no how.

It goes to show what DESPERATE WRECKERS this lot of Opposition & their corporate allies are...

no different than the Tea Party Republicans & their corporate backers who have taken America to the brink of economic destruction...

a foul stench emanates from these greedy fcks.

Lunatics...pumped up by 4 decades of conning the public. Pulling the rug outa THE MANY...to benefit THE FEW...

after years & years of "Be more productive!"..."Be more efficient"...blaaah blaaah blaaah.

Ripoff artists. Snakeoil salesman.

This is a good reason for governments to takeover the airlines & to make them clean & green...then sell them...

and build fast trains...

N'

nasking

October 29. 2011 08:39 PM

Feral Skeleton

Nas,
    It's no surprise Peter Reith is all over this action by Qantas' Management like the Industrial Relations scumbag that he is. But, oh no, try and force some accountability out of the porcine James Packer and his Board and it is just not on. One law for them, another for us.  And, if they don't like the law of the land, they'll flout it.

   My grandfather was without work for over a year in 1929 as he fought for better pay and conditions for Merchant Seamen, the strike which eventually led to the downfall of the Conservative government of Stanley Bruce. He was supported by my grandmother, who went out to work full-time in the Nestle Chocolate Factory, on the production line. Quite an unusual occurrence in those days, pre World War 2. All the men were also supported by the Irish-Australian community, who made sure they and their families were all fed, and had a roof over their heads for the duration of the strike. Which is what the capitalists cannot counteract. Solidarity. Although they have had a decades-long project to atomise and instil fear into the workforce, especially by attempting to smash the Unions. This cannot be allowed to succeed. I'll be doing all I can to make sure they don't win this battle they have pulled on, that's for sure. Till my dying breath.

   What a damn hide Dick Smith has got, and didn't he show his true colours tonight on ABC24, when he said that because 80% of travellers have voted with their wallets for cheaper airlines that that means, therefore, the end of decent pay and conditions for Australian workers on Qantas should now be a given, and they should accept Asian-level pay and conditions.
Well, the workers will accept Asian-level pay and conditions when the bosses do too. Also, the way he blithely stated that he got his aeroplanes serviced in Dubai by cheaply-paid Phillipinos, so that means Australian workers only deserved the same rate of pay now in Australia.

   So, Nas, like you, I will never be purchasing any electrical item from any store with his name on the door again. Even if he no longer owns them.

Feral Skeleton

October 29. 2011 10:49 PM

Feral Skeleton

  Has everyone fallen off the edge of the Earth tonight? Or, are they grounded at an airport? Smile

Feral Skeleton

October 29. 2011 11:49 PM

Jaeger

Unfortunately, I'm flying not flying with JoyceAir this weekend, so being stranded isn't really an option - bugger.  Been there (Perth), done that in 2001; I didn't mind except for the loss of FF points - maybe I should cash them in this time, just in case?

Jaeger

October 30. 2011 09:13 AM

Patricia WA

Hello everyone!   I've come in via a side door - through Archives since you seem to have been down since late yesterday arvo.  I tried again and again up till midnight.  Same this morning.   Then I thought AC might already have archived Batwoman, so I pressed Archives - and Bingo!

FS - had you kept you screen open till late last night?  And Nasking?  Jaeger too perhaps?

Patricia WA

October 30. 2011 10:22 AM

Patricia WA

I feel a bit like a lone passenger stranded at a Qantas counter in the early hours!

Is there anyone out there?

Seriously this Qantas thing has me feeling sick.   Much like I did 11/11/75 - the worst birthday I can recall.

What happens in Parliament if somehow 'by chance' many Coalition MPs are already in Canberra and ALP members are still stranded?    

  

Patricia WA

October 30. 2011 11:08 AM

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Folks
We have had unusual server problems where the front end became inoperative, but the current piece remained operative.  Web Monkey is with us this weekend and has been working through the problem remotely via a complex process. TPS is operating normally again.  Apologies for the interruption.

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October 30. 2011 11:11 AM

NormanK

Good Morning Patricia WA

There are other domestic services running for MPs to get to Canberra and if Labor MPs find themselves stranded, past precedent suggests that military craft will be seconded to ferry them around.
I agree that the whole Qantas thing is a bit scary, mainly because it looks very political. The timing is outrageous. A Saturday afternoon so that weekend travellers are stranded away from their workplaces. The day before CHOGUM ends so that Australia is embarrassed by leaving world leaders and their entourages stuck in Perth. It also blew CHOGUM and the Queen's visit off the front pages.
Without knowing or properly understanding the complexities of the dispute, I have to say that from the grandstands this doesn't inspire confidence in Qantas management or Joyce.

NormanK

October 30. 2011 11:37 AM

nasking

Just to let jane & others know who were interested that our cat friend Midnight passed away last night...quietly & in no pain cradled by S' at the late night vets...strangely at exactly midnight. He had renal failure. He will be missed by us a great deal.

The following link will take you to a picture...Midnight is the furry black cat:

cafewhispers.wordpress.com/.../

Cheers
N'

nasking

October 30. 2011 11:42 AM

NormanK

Nasking

Sorry to hear of your loss. My commiserations to all concerned.

NormanK

October 30. 2011 11:42 AM

Patricia WA

The Pollbludgers are doing a pretty good job of a running commentary.  And yes NormanK Bushfire Bill and others have reassured me that the Airforce would be used to ferry MPs.  Of course this GG is a different kettle of fish from Kerr so things aren't quite as scary as they might be.

But I still think the Right have done a pretty good job of undermining this government and our Prime Minister.   Makes you appreciate her strengths even more, doesn't it?

Patricia WA

October 30. 2011 12:03 PM

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PatriciaWA
You get the prize for working out how to get into TPS via the Archive.  

Late last night I found that while the usual URL gave an error message, it the current piece was loaded it remained operative, even after refreshing, and of course Archive still worked.  It was too late to get Web Monkey out of bed so I left repairs until this morning.  This necessitated downloading Microsoft’s Remote Desktop Connection onto my iMac and connecting to the remote server.  Fortunately Web Monkey had his portable backup hard disk with him and was able to access data crucial to repairing the problem, which took about an hour of complex work.  The reason for the glitch remains unknown.

This is the first problem we have had since updating to the new version of the blog engine.  Let’s hope we have another trouble free period.

Nasking
I join in the commiserations over the demise of your beloved cat Midnight.

Ad astra reply

October 30. 2011 12:28 PM

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Folks
I thought Insiders was a reasonably balanced program this morning.  Craig Emerson did a good interview (compare his understanding of economic issues with Joe Hockey or Andrew Robb, or the illiterate Tiny Abbott), and as ever Laura Tingle and Mega were sensible and Gerard Henderson was not over the top; he at least gave credit to PM Gillard at CHOGM.  

The Qantas dispute is now very serious.  I cannot believe this radical move to ground all flights suddenly jumped into Alan Joyce’s mind between the Qantas AGM and his announcement.  This has been planned, and if he thought the unions were trashing Qantas and its brand, by this one move he has surpassed the unions by a country mile.  Imagine how you would feel being stranded overseas en route!  This man is either desperate or unhinged.  Yet on Inside Business Joyce insisted he had no other option.  What arrant nonsense.  No other option?  No warning to the travelling public to give travellers a chance to make alternative arrangements?  No alternative but to do this in the middle of CHOGM and strand or at least inconvenience international leaders?  Give us a break.  Alan Kohler seemed pretty unimpressed even after Joyce insisted he had lots of support in the business community.  Make or break?  Let’s hope if anything gets broken it is not Qantas, but rather Joyce or the intransigent union leaders who want to cling onto an era long past and ignore the competitiveness of airlines in today’s world.  I feel sorry for those who use air travel, unionists not involved in the dispute, and of course our national icon Qantas.  I hope Fair Work Australia will knock together the heads of all those involved, and sort this out promptly and fairly.

Ad astra reply

October 30. 2011 12:29 PM

Tom of Melbourne

The completely uninformed commentary here from FS is funny.

Obviously an expert in the aviation industry too.

Got some evidence, ie a link, for your allegations of political involvement?

Tom of Melbourne

October 30. 2011 12:39 PM

psyclaw

FS
Thanks for taking the attack to Hartcher. Yours is a good example for us all.

His student speech article is a joke. This allegory is not a legitimate entre to an anti government diatribe. As I read it, the speeches were agin JG and the fool Abbott.

BTW here is a quote from Reith re Qantas:

I understand that the short-term politics for the Coalition is to make Qantas the PM's problem, but I find it strange to hear Tony Abbott say Gillard should step into the dispute.
I thought Abbott's position was that Gillard was a hopeless negotiator and everything she touched turned to mud. So why would the opposition want the government involved?
Sadly, the answer seems to be that they do not otherwise have a policy response.


Since mine enemies enemies are my friends, he should be encouraged to continue such articles.

He has written several pro-Work Choices articles on the Drum recently and I always warmly congratulate him ....he is wedging Abbott and forcing him to invent an anti-cremating machine. I think the national president of the Lieberal Party shafting by Abbott will live long in Reith's memory and he is a revenge addict and expert. Good!


Nas
Joyce's father was a factory worker and his mother a cleaner. It's an unusual ancestry for such an industrial extremist.

Reading around this morning it appears that Joyce tried to phone the PM at 1400hrs yesterday but she was giving a CHOGM speech. He spoke instead to ministers Ferguson, Evans and Albanese. There is much talk that this was to use the shut down threat as leverage for a government intervention (despite his frequents statements over recent weeks that he did not want intervention).

When the government took no action, at 1700hrs he called the shut down.

According to L Tingle the social media is full of ant-Joyce sentiment today .. the failed brinksmanship will probably see him cast as the persona non grata in all of this.

I note that ministerial intervention under the FWA is allowed only if life is endangered or the economy is endangered (s431, 1 (b) (i) and (ii)). Joyce's shut down action is very likely to activate the "endanger the economy" provision. This restriction to ministerial intervention applies in cases defined in s 408 as "protected industrial action" and the current dispute falls into the s 408 gamut.

The conservo wailers will be all over this tomorrow.. "why didn't the government intervene weeks ago?" The fact that in their opinion s 431 had not been activated by the dispute till yesterday will not worry them.

psyclaw

October 30. 2011 12:41 PM

BSA Bob

Just listening to ABC Radio's 12pm news. I thought it gave fair & balanced coverage (in the true meaning of the words) to the Qantas dispute. Perhaps there is hope.
Apparently the Pilot's Association has a prior dated email of some kind essentially proving that Qantas' move was premeditated.

BSA Bob

October 30. 2011 02:27 PM

TalkTurkey

Hi Folks, couldn't pull TPS up for quite a while, now I'm well behind the 8-ball.

Queen.
CHOGM.
QANTAS.
Casualties.

Too much local BS news to get anywhere on big picture stuff.
The World is wasting what time it has left with dumb stuff like this.
There is only one issue now, saving the planet.

As I write someone on ABC is talking about how (human-induced) ocean acidification is affecting oyster production. That's all that matters, the oysters for humans. Never mind the volutes, the coral polyps, the Glory of the Seases (if any survive), the krill whose skeletons also are affected, the whales and everyone else who live on the krill, the terrible news is we might not have oysters any more!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The world's ship is sinking without any real attempt to fix its problems, while *we* (humanity in this case) play stupid games, of which breeding is the deadliest, and of which war is the stupidest.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One of the Defence Force chiefs said he was "saddened and outraged" by the attack on the men in Afghanistan. Outraged!. He'd probably call it a cowardly attack too, whereas it is the supremely courageous act of any man's life to do what their attacker did. All's fair in war, and it is *we* who are in *their* country, *we* who go on about the War on Terror, *we* who deploy the aircraft and big weaponry,
how can a defence chief be *outraged?*

Let us just get the hell out of there. No more excuses, surely?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oddly enough, you might think, I think the Government is well on its way to winning the next election. What is more I think that political blogs are in no small part responsible, albeit largely by sort of osmosis, but that is OK, it's as valid as the next way, maybe valider than most.

But I just wish that we could put these islocentic minidramas to bed once and for all, and get down to, yes, saving the planet.  

Fie on Abbortt and all his ilk everywhere in the world, it is their kind that are the impediment to the rest of our doing that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry for you in your time of grief Nasking and OH. Even if it's only for a cat, and I don't like cats in Australia. The grief hurts anyway.

TalkTurkey

October 30. 2011 02:29 PM

nasking

I thought Insiders was a reasonably balanced program this morning.

Ad,
I agree. And I thought both Bill Shorten & Craig Emerson were highly effective in getting the government message out.

Somethin' stuck in my mind that Shorten said a few days back re: Superannuation...along the lines of: "Imagine if America had our super system they'd have trillions more as a sovereign wealth fund and not be as deeply in financial trouble". Good point.

The Qantas dispute is now very serious.  I cannot believe this radical move to ground all flights suddenly jumped into Alan Joyce’s mind between the Qantas AGM and his announcement.  This has been planned

Agree again...can't be any coincidence that Reith was out there the past few mths on The Drum & Sky News...and one of the first outa the gates pushing the case for Qantas' Joyce & attackin' the government's workplace reforms as havin' gone too far.

Also the premiers of NSW & Vic gettin' involved more heavily the day before...and Abbott...as George Mega mentioned on Insiders. Be interestin' to see if hotels & other airline execs were informed beforehand...and what info Channel Nine, Channel Ten execs, shock jocks & News Ltd execs had.

Looks like yet another Coalition & usual suspect media coordinated campaign to me. Certainly an arrogant middle finger to the small Qantas shareholders & passengers not given a heads up...

it seems that Joyce & his allies are willin' to trash the reputation of Qantas as happened to Ansett previously...and Telstra...and from what I remember, wasn't Rupert Murdoch involved w/ takin' heaps of money outa Ansett?

Pretty suss too that Richard Branson barnstormed the mainstream media outlets not long ago...and Virgin Airlines has been pumped up so much via ads of late. Notice Gerard Henderson on Lateline mentioned conveniently that he had "flown Virgin last night" & went into the fact that some of their staff were paid lower rates than the Qantas ones.

I know where you are comin' from in regard to "competitiveness"...but serious problems can be caused by the obsessive focus on profiting for shareholders & lowering prices at the cost of treating staff w/ respect and investing in maintenance & staff health & peace of mind.

Turnin' them into "insecure bots" can lead to tragic events of various kinds. That includes bringin' in quickly trained replacement staff who don't know the "ins & outs" & quirks of the different airline models.

Let's hope that compromise & effective negotiations will be conducted by both sides under the FWA intervention...

rather than the kind of intentional blocking & irresponsible wrecking ball approach of the Tea Party Republicans in America who almost took their country off a cliff.

Gerard Henderson tried to label any idea that this was "planned" as a "conspiracy"...predictable response.

The Coalition should remember that pushing somethin' similar to the waterfront dispute could backfire bigtime due to the fear this will invoke in workers these days related to WorkChoices (as in "if they are willing to go this far w/ their top end of town driven campaigns...what happens if they get all the state & federal governments...crazy like a Tea Party Abbott & Joyce & Bolt/Murdoch media & Alan Jones?)...

and they should remember that their attempt to pull another Tampa-like situation re: Aboriginal Intervention, somewhat backfired.

Certainly there is a degree of "wedging" the government on issues here, as there was w/ the "intervention"...and attempting to paint them as "leading from behind" (think obvious campaign against Obama)...and "incompetent" leading to "debacles" (strange timing by Peter Hartcher as mentioned above re: slaggin' off "minority government")...

and focusin' of late on "productivity" in order to compare their waterfront dispute leading to more productivity wheras the ALP is in bed w/ the unions (see attack on possible ALP president) and has failed in "productivity" area as evidenced by inaction w/ Qantas dispute. This was certainly planned a long time ago...the moment ya saw Reith's mug all over the tele & internet ya had to suspect a few big campaigns were bein' put in place...I imagine his loss of the presidency by one vote was just another ATTENTION-SEEKING effort by the Coalition...

workin' overtime to find a way to manufacture chaos so they can play the saviours & paint unions as evil...and gov't incompetent. Not hard considerin' the top end of towners & media they have on board.

I imagine many a Murdoch & Gordon Gecko-like character spends many sleepless nights planning & buying/blackmailing/offering Kingdoms to pollies & other media in order to get what they "think they deserve" as "superior beings"...and to undermine hurdles in the expansion of their empires.

Ruthless stuff, as we are now witnessing.
Win at all costs.

N'        

nasking

October 30. 2011 02:37 PM

nasking

Notice Gerard Henderson on Lateline mentioned conveniently that he had "flown Virgin last night"

Sorry, make that Insiders.

N'

nasking

October 30. 2011 02:44 PM

2353

Regardless of the rationality of the Qantas workers demands - which I don't know enough to comment about - Qantas is the second large Australian airline Joyce has been in the senior management ranks of when it's reputation was trashed.  The other one was Ansett.

With the Qantas brand being trashed (and Jetstar being a Qantas owned airline) will the two big airlines in 2021 be Virgin Australia and REX?

2353

October 30. 2011 03:03 PM

nasking

Joyce's father was a factory worker and his mother a cleaner. It's an unusual ancestry for such an industrial extremist.

psyclaw,

Profile: Alan Joyce

By Lucinda Schmidt, The Age.com
January 24, 2007


When Alan Joyce worked as a research analyst for Irish airline Aer Lingus he applied for a job as a pilot but was knocked back. "I'm probably too hyper," laughs Joyce, who is now the boss of about 300 pilots and 1300 other staff, as chief executive of Jetstar.

His mathematical skills have been far more useful to his aviation career than a pilot's licence. The Irish-born Joyce holds a master of science degree from Trinity College, Dublin, with a double major in physics and maths, which has proved invaluable when facing complex revenue management issues such as forecasting the percentage of no-shows on a particular route on a particular day (which allows the airline to over-sell seats by up to 3 per cent).

Attitude to money I've always been very conservative, with no elaborate expenditure. Maybe it's my working-class background; you appreciate the resources you have.

Best investment Education. My parents are from a working-class background and spent what they had to put four kids through uni. The biggest foundation you can give anybody is education.

Biggest break [Qantas CEO] Geoff Dixon giving me the job as chief executive of Jetstar. It's been such an experience, such a great project. The environment was just perfect.


www.theage.com.au/.../1169330826236.html

Possible OCD, manic/hyper...obsession w/ figures & small details...unions undermine his need to get things "just right"...

ambitious, pushed to move beyond parents' workin' class trap, possibly feels he owes it to them (worth seein' effects of unions in UK/Ireland when he was growin' up & attitude of certain educators/parent)...

possible envy of pilots & wary of other staff...

Dixon influence?...who else was behind the decision to make him CEO?...who does he owe or feel need to demonstrate he's capable?...

many a CEO comes from similar backgrounds & has same ruthless drive but actually see themselves as charming, friendly negotiators doin' the right thing for the company & the customers. As long as they have a few top influential people pattin' their back they can justify anythin' to themselves.

I knew some execs like that in Canada via my Dad's businesses.

N'

nasking

October 30. 2011 03:14 PM

nasking

Many thnx to Norman, Ad & Talk Turkey...I shall pass yer kind words on to my wife. Much appreciated. It's been a tuff day.

We send our condolences & sympathy to the families of the poor soldiers killed & injured in Afghanistan. Tragic. There are some who put others' lives & well-being ahead of money.

Some never sacrifice anything but integrity & principles in their blind pursuit of...

Plenty at the top have sacrificed nuthin' durin' Bush's wars...but they've gained heaps.

Let's hope we EXIT soon. And their feedin' trough disappears. And brave soldiers can come HOME.  

N'

nasking

October 30. 2011 03:18 PM

nasking

But I just wish that we could put these islocentic minidramas to bed once and for all, and get down to, yes, saving the planet.

Well said Talk Turkey.

Enuff of the Machievellian claptrap that harms many & benefits a few like the corporate media & some shareholders.

Time to get on w/ the healin'. And makin' for a safer, more innovative, diverse, fairer, saner more secure future.

N'

nasking

October 30. 2011 03:36 PM

nasking

Either this guy is on somethin' to pump up his confidence & keep him awake, motivated...or he's bein' medicated for somethin'...possibly both...his performances have been capricious, unpredictable & over-the-top:

Rick Perry's Unusual Speech Performance

www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...mance_n_1065571.html

Perry has been spoilt in Texas...he's obviously used to gettin' his own way.

To think this unpredictable performer & emotional cyclone could be in charge of America's military & nukes...frightenin'.

N'

nasking

October 30. 2011 03:46 PM

Acerbic Conehead 2

Have no fear, Joycey’s here!

The future of QANTAS is surely in good hands.  Joycey has got everything under control.  He and the Board are gonna fly the planes themselves.  They mighn’t have any flying expertise, but don’t planes these days have auto-pilots anyway?

Sing along with Joycey as he begins his advertising blitz for the reformed QANTAS.  It’s his version of Tom Petty’s, “Learning to fly”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p_f7Df2-oM

:- )
Well I’ve started out down a dirty road
Closed QANTAS down, with the Board in tow
As CHOGM closed down, we crossed that bridge
Conscience clear, my cause is ridgy didge
:- )
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
On squillions a year, don’t need dem tings
:- )
Well the good ol' days will not return
A lesson that, passengers will have to learn
:- )
I'm learning to fly, jus’ give me my due
She’ll be right, got the auto-cue
:- )
There’s no way life’s, gonna beat me down
The begrudgers say, “why pay that clown?”
So I've started out, for God knows where
I guess I'll know when I get there
:- )
I'm learning to fly, around the clouds
Me ego’s size, sure it knows no bounds
:- )
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
Shove a stopper, right up yer rings

Acerbic Conehead 2

October 30. 2011 03:58 PM

Michael

To me Abbott looks all nonplussed over the Qantas developments, falling back on "the government should've" lines.

Is it possible Big Business wants to see how Abbott steps up when there's the closest thing to a 'real' national crisis unfolding? If he delivers the 'right' lines, streaks out ahead of the PM as the 'sensible' leader when the going gets tough, then he passes the test, and the fat-cats get behind him?

But if the PM and her government come out ahead with the public, Abbott's just been burned out of contention without him being in government, and thus, not removable. Just a thought.

The chance to stake the biggest claim of all is right in front of Shouldabeen right now. Prove he really is the PM who should be.

Except, from what I've seen and heard of him so far, it's all about the government hasn't done, without the slightest hint of what he would do.

In short, he's muffing it.

Michael

October 30. 2011 05:44 PM

Feral Skeleton

  Hi guys! Just back from the Woytopia Alternative Lifestyle Festival in downtown Woy Woy, home to the cosmic Spike Milligan. Smile

   And what have I come back to? Many worthy comments from my fellow TPS travellers, eventually(Nas & I must have had a wormhole into the site last night)...and Tom of Melbourne's malarky. Sigh.

   So he wants some evidence that there is Liberal Party involvement in the Qantas Management's action wrt the Union's Enterprise Bargaining round and negotiations, such as they are, with Qantas.

   Where do I start?

   The conveniently-timed letter from the 2 Liberal Premiers that pre-empted the actions that Qantas Management were just about to take? Which nicely laid the line out that the PM should get involved, and when she didn't & it all blew up on Saturday, they could say, "We told you so." Just like Tony Abbott, who has manufactured the government incompetence line now because the government should have sorted this out weeks ago, apparently, except that Qantas specifically told them they didn't want their involvement.

   Then there has been the well-prepared appearance of Liberal Party shills in the media as soon as Joyce announced his action, trying to frame the debate as one in which the Unions have no option but to capitulate because "No one has job security in Australia, except if you're in the Public Service(and aren't they trying their darndest to get rid of them ASAP once they get back into government?). Of course, that is a line that suits the IR Warriors keen to reintroduce WorkChoices Lite, as it is being called now among the denizens of the hardline IR cabal and refugees from the H.R.Nicholls Society. No doubt they are busy right now, in their homes away from home in the Right Wing Think Tanks com[posing their apologia for the Qantas management thugs, ready to appear in the Right Wing Dailies out tomorrow.

   Now I'm sure, if I went to the trouble of tracking down the CVs and IR pedigrees of a lot of these commentators that have been putting their 2c worth into the debate since yesterday, it would not surprise me to find both a lot of connections to the Liberal Party and the Right Wing Think Tanks and Right Wing Academia.

   However, I will leave the most overt piece of evidence of the links to the Liberal Party of those with skin in this game, till last. Which comes in the form of Mr Leigh Clifford, Chairman of the Board of Qantas, Liberal Party member, and architect of the de-unionisation of the Rio Tinto Mining Company, when he was on it's Board. An interesting link to his Liberal Party roots can be found here:
   www.pprune.org/.../...-leigh-cliffords-agenda.html

Feral Skeleton

October 30. 2011 05:49 PM

Feral Skeleton

AcerbicC.,
          Thank yyou for the Tom Petty toon. Smile Flying by the seat of his pants also appears to be Alan Joyce's style.

   Btw, did you know they're making a sequel to the famous movie 'Twins', starring Danny De Vito and Arnold Schwarzenegger?  This one will be starring Alan Joyce and Barnaby Joyce. Laughing

Feral Skeleton

October 30. 2011 05:53 PM

Feral Skeleton

Michael,
        The Tiny-minded one is spouting 'Nonsense on Stilts' with his line about the government needing to have been involved in this dispute earlier. Qantas told them not to do it. Even the ABC is saying that.

Feral Skeleton

October 30. 2011 06:25 PM

Tom of Melbourne

No FS, what I was after was your justification for this specific comment –

“It's no surprise Peter Reith is all over this action by Qantas' Management like the Industrial Relations scumbag that he is.”

I mean you've now widened your attack, but you've specifically said Reith was involved.

Is there justification for it, or did you just get carried away and make it up?

Tom of Melbourne

October 30. 2011 06:38 PM

psyclaw

FS at 5.53pm
See my post above re s 431 of the FWA and the criteria for government action. I don't believe s431 was activated until Joyce closed up shop.

This is the same paradigm as the Indonesian slaughter house matter. First the conservos cry "the government must do something" followed soon by "the government did it wrong" followed soon by "the government does everything wrong ..... look at the BER". They're a creative bunch!

psyclaw

October 30. 2011 06:58 PM

psyclaw

The fool Abbott's ambitions might have now taken a good hard dent in LT's opinion:

Laura Tingle Political editor:

Alan Joyce has handed Julia Gillard  the stage greatest and opportunity of government of her prime ministership, as well  laying  groundwork for an entirely new political  debate on  Industrial relations.

afr.com/.../qantas_puts_ir_ball_in_gillard_court_NJSlg0PSj9GXVeIFdrmOxN

psyclaw

October 30. 2011 07:05 PM

Ad astra reply

Political Sword Media Mash

Minority government is on the nose, an opinion piece by Peter Hartcher, Sydney Morning Herald October 29, 2011

www.smh.com.au/.../...the-nose-20111028-1moih.html

Let’s remember at the outset that this is Peter Hartcher’s opinion, to which he’s entitled.

Having read it three times, I am still wondering what the point of the article is, except that ‘minority government has failed’ and that the people don’t like it.  And from the tone of his words, he’s pretty annoyed himself.

He does set out some evidence to support his views.  Let’s look at it.


Even teenagers unable to vote have decided, as have an increasing number of voters, that they have had enough.

“The seven teenage finalists fought back their nerves as they were handed the topic for their impromptu speech. It was this year's Victorian State final of Australia's premier high school public speaking contest, the Plain English Speaking competition, held on June 30. As they unfolded the piece of paper, each found the same words: "Partners in crime".

“The hard part? The contestants, all aged 16 or 17, had to turn these three words into a smart, interesting, coherent four-minute speech in front of a live audience and a panel of three judges. And they had exactly three minutes to prepare.

“The topic was crafted to be wide open to interpretation. There was no "correct" way to decipher the concept of "partners in crime". So how did Victoria's best high school speakers choose to interpret the thought? Of the seven, four strode onto the stage and spoke about Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott. The Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition were the "partners in crime".

“There was no caucusing. The contestants were held separately and none got to listen to the others before delivering their own. The fact that most of these kids took the opportunity to denounce the national leadership was a troubling sign of the times. The encroaching sense of national dismay is real.”


So here’s the first piece of evidence – four of seven teenage finalists in a public speaking contest coupled PM Gillard and Opposition Leader Abbott as ‘partners in crime’, and according to Hartcher ‘denounced the national leadership’, which led him to sense that ‘national dismay is real’.  Later you will read that Hartcher uses focus group outcomes to boost his case, although he must know how much disparagement Labor has copped over its use of these groups.  So is this teenage wisdom the outcome of a mini-focus group – the young people’s parents and friends, or is this the product of well-reasoned, factually supported debate?  Unlikely, since the speeches were impromptu with only three minutes to prepare.  But if this episode supports Hartcher’s considered opinion of minority government, why not use it?  Hartcher explains.

It's partly about Gillard and the way that Labor has behaved in the past year-and-a-half; it's partly about Abbott and the way that the Opposition has behaved; but it's also a verdict that minority government has failed, that Australian politics has gone seriously wrong, and a craving for a return to "normal".”

It’s reassuring that both PM Gillard and Opposition Leader Abbott cop Hartcher’s reprimand, but note the daring leap to ‘the verdict’ (whose verdict?) that ‘minority government has failed’.  QED.  The fact that Gillard and Abbott are regularly exchanging unpleasantries is undeniable, but how does that lead to the verdict that minority government has failed?  I seem to recollect that similar verbal stouches occurred when there was majority government, some when John Howard had a splendid majority in both houses. To connect contemporary ‘behaviour’ to failure of minority government fails the logic test.

Perhaps Hartcher felt that conclusion was somewhat feeble, so he drew in some other evidence – from Glenn Stevens.


It's powerful enough that even the governor of the Reserve Bank, Glenn Stevens, was obliged to acknowledge that the "increasingly bitter political debate" was damaging consumer confidence. Rising household incomes were accelerating but consumer spending was slowing and one of the explanations was the conduct of politics: "It seems we are, at the moment, mostly unhappy," Stevens said in a June 27 speech.

“Central bank governors avoid political commentary like the plague, so it was striking that "bitter" political debate had become so important and unavoidable a problem that he felt compelled to speak its name.


Now Peter, why don’t you spell out who has engendered this ‘bitter political debate’?  I seem to recall that from day one as leader, the pugilist in Abbott came to the surface, and that he has been unremittingly negative and obstructionist ever since, and ever since the election has been berating PM on everything, casting her and her government as illegitimate and the worst in political history, and that PM Gillard has been relatively mild in her responses, countering Abbott in the house and calling him obstructionist and negative in public statements, which of course is an accurate description.

Why do you cast them as equal ‘partners in crime’ to use your words, when the aggressor has been and still is Abbott.  It’s like coupling the schoolyard bully with the bullied, when the latter retaliates.  You know who has been looking for a fight from get-go.  Why not call him for the bullyboy he is, determined to get his hands on the keys to The Lodge no matter why damage he does to our society with his rallies and toxic language, no matter what damage he is doing to the economy which he talks down over and again?[/i]


The Australian National University this week published one of its regular polls on national affairs. It found a marked fall in satisfaction with democracy in Australia since last year's federal election.

“Satisfaction fell by 13 percentage points after the election to its lowest since 1998, and has remained at this level for the past year.

“Why was 1998 the previous low point? It was the year of the election where Howard and Costello were campaigning for the GST; Kim Beazley's Labor was running a mighty scare campaign.

“Voters were alarmed by the Howard-Costello plan and angry that Howard had earlier promised he would "never, ever" introduce a GST. But they were deeply unconvinced that Beazley would be any real improvement. An electorate angry with a prime minister going back on a promise, frightened by a tax scare campaign, yet unconvinced by the competence of the alternative - sound familiar?”


Well Peter doesn’t that tell you something?  When scare campaigns are extant and effective, satisfaction falls.  That should not be a surprise, and should tell you that Abbott’s scare campaigns are having the same effect.  So why not lay that squarely at his feet, instead of ‘sharing the blame around’.

"A fall of 13 percentage points is actually a lot," says Professor Ian McAllister, the man who supervised the poll and a respected political scientist. "These things are fairly secular - they don't move around a lot with events. When you see satisfaction with democracy going down, that makes me nervous.

"When we drilled down we found it was people who didn't like minority government - they were worried about accountability and efficacy." And public concern at minority government has sharpened further in the past five months, as revealed in another finding, says McAllister.

“The poll found a pronounced rise in the proportion of Australians who believe the country's biggest problem is the "need for better government".
"It's doubled since the last poll", conducted in May, from 9 per cent to 18 per cent, McAllister reports. Only the category of "economy and jobs" rated higher on the worry-o-meter, at 22 per cent.

"To have one-fifth of people mentioning the quality of government as the first problem facing Australia is actually a lot. There's something going on. People see it as a failure of the system in a way. It's something I haven't seen before in the polls."

“The same sort of sentiment was captured in the decline in the number of people who think the country is "heading in the right direction". It's fallen from 63 per cent in May to 55 per cent now.

"I think there's a fundamental dissatisfaction and discontinuity felt among a significant minority. It's not about issues, it's going beyond issues - it's about how things are working," says McAllister.

"People aren't stupid. They see a series of policy debacles" - he lists the way the mining tax was decided, the way the carbon tax was decided, and the conduct of asylum seeker policy - "and they put things together and work things out. They really don't like minority government.

"It's not as if there's one policy they could get a task force to fix and all would be well - that's just what Julia Gillard tried to do to get things off the agenda at the last election. That's why I think the Gillard government is probably terminal."


This is a sound poll, so the data is likely reliable. But do McAllister’s conclusions follow from the data quoted?  Or is this his extrapolation?  Did the poll ask about minority government?  The only time minority government was mentioned in the ANU report was in the comment on the question “On the whole, are you very satisfied, fairly satisfied, not very satisfied, or not at all satisfied with the way democracy works in Australia?” The poll showed satisfaction had fallen from 86% in mid 2007 when Kevin Rudd was riding high as Opposition leader to 73% in mid 2011, a fall of 13%, which McAllister says is substantial, but after all, 73% is still pretty high.  Take a look at the graph on page 7 and judge for yourself. publicpolicy.anu.edu.au/.../...rnment_services.pdf

Yet Hartcher quotes McAllister as saying “…once again, a substantial driver behind this change has been the negative views of many voters over the minority labor government elected in the 2010 election.  How has he reached this conclusion?  From the data, or is he extrapolating?  Then for good measure McAllister gratuitously offers his opinion: “That's why I think the Gillard government is probably terminal.".  Why is a pollster offering this opinion when it seems not to be derived from the poll data, and why is Hartcher quoting him, if not to support Hartcher’s own contention that the Gillard Government is terminal?  This in not what pollsters ought to be doing.


But it's more than Gillard, and it goes beyond minority government. McAllister does numbers, the so-called quantitative polling, but doesn't do the voter thinking and feeling that underlies them. For that qualitative research, we turn to Rebecca Huntley, the director of the Ipsos Mackay Report. She convenes the notorious "focus groups" that sit around talking about what's on their minds.

“In truth, it's not so much the groups themselves that have become notorious - it's the governments that allow the half-formed thoughts of random groups of uncommitted voters to guide policy. But Huntley, a former Labor staffer, uses them to winkle out thoughts and feelings for her commercial clients. She conducts 16 groups, each typically with about eight people based on friendship groups, four times a year, and writes a Mind and Mood report twice a year.

“She also detects a distinct hardening in attitudes to the performance of the minority government in the past half-year or so: "In April people were still waiting to see what the multi-party government was going to do - now it's 'no, no, no, this isn't working for us'."

“Why not? "Because the kind of issues the politicians and the media are obsessed with are irrelevant, marginal or controversial. Not so much with carbon tax, but on pokies, asylum seekers and gay marriage, for example, - people can't understand the disproportionate focus on issues that have nothing to do with their concerns, and they think it must be because of the Greens and independents."

“What are the missing topics? "Mainstream concerns are not so much about meeting the next mortgage payment but about medium- to longer-term matters. They're always about building the economy after the mining boom, preparing society for the ageing of the population. Who will own the houses? Who will look after the grandparents? These are the big endless conversations."

“The creeping disenchantment with democracy, she says, is not because corruption is seen to be worsening or the mechanics of democracy are breaking down - "it's the disconnection between Canberra and the media on the one hand and the concerns of the people on the other."

“Says Huntley: "The people are very ready for an election. Because a new government, whether it's Liberal or Labor, would be able to do what it actually wanted to do rather than what they're forced to do by the minor parties and independents in the minority government.

"I'm starting to see the beginning of the same sort of malaise that fell over NSW about a year after Labor put Morris Iemma in."
“Labor's problem is not just Gillard or its minority bedpartners. It's Labor's factional manoeuvrings and power plays , says Huntley. Australians are still appalled at the way Kevin Rudd was torn down in his first term.
"Apart from Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard, the only other Labor people who come up in the groups are the faceless men, you know, 'Bill Shorten and Mark Arbib f---ed Rudd over and f---ked Gillard over and will f--- over everyone and they will f---k over everything'." For men without faces, they've made a big impression.

“Huntley draws attention to the other half of the problem - Abbott. "One of the reasons people are depressed is they have no confidence that the alternative would be any better."

“Confidence in Australian democracy reached a historical peak in 2007 when voters had a choice between Howard and Rudd. "It was a clear contrast. Australians generally like the idea of two strong political parties talking to each other well. And Rudd had lifted people's interest and engagement in politics - he was a competent man able to bring a fresh approach. There is none of that with Tony Abbott."


Having lampooned Labor for its dependence on focus groups, Hartcher then quotes at length Rebecca Huntley’s focus group research carried out as director of Ipsos Mackay Research.  We can take it at face value as being no more or less valid than any other focus group outcomes.  She mentions the media as complicit in forming the attitude of those surveyed, but Hartcher does not highlight this in his commentary, not does he make much of the feeling that there is little faith in Tony Abbott.   Again Abbott’s complicity, indeed his pivotal role in creating these attitudes, is passed over by Hartcher.

For perspective, Australian public attitudes are troubled and there is growing dismay, but Australians are far from despair. Satisfaction with democracy hit its lowest measured point in the constitutional crisis of 1975, when Malcolm Fraser's Coalition blocked supply in the Senate and the governor-general sacked the Labor prime minister, Gough Whitlam. Even Abbott didn't attempt to obstruct the budget. In 1975 satisfaction with democracy was 59 per cent; today it's 73 per cent. And, as Ian McAllister points out, it's still among the highest in the world.”
Hartcher having taken over 1600 words to build a case that ‘minority government is on the nose’, curiously knocks it over by conceding that satisfaction with democracy is “…still among the highest in the world.” And that “”…Australians are far from despair.”.

But as even the school kids now seem to think, the populism and lack of policy ambition in post-Rudd Australia that led to the debacle of the 2010 election and the minority government experiment has led to a fast-hardening verdict that the conduct of both leaders and all parties is damnable.

Not deterred by any logical deficit in his piece, or by his second last paragraph, he returns to his theme that ”… the minority government experiment has led to a fast-hardening verdict that the conduct of both leaders and all parties is damnable”, and for good measure throws in an opinion not previously offered, that the 2010 election was a debacle, presumably to reinforce his adverse view on minority government, but without any indication of what way it was ‘a debacle’.  We are expected to just swallow that as a self-evident fact.

It really is a poorly constructed and inadequately argued piece, starting with, and ending with a teenage debate, with padding in between to support his header: “Minority government is on the nose”. We the consumers of this opinion piece deserve better than this from a senior and experienced journalist.

Ad astra reply

October 30. 2011 07:20 PM

jane

Nas' so sorry about your dear old cat. I lost a cat to renal failure, but he did not die peacefully, so I'm very glad that Midnight's death was peaceful and pain-free, cradled in S' arms. A fitting end for a dear friend.

Also very encouraging news about your Dad and S'. The relief must be enormous, even though you must also be vigilant for the future. A well deserved sleep for you after so much anxiety.

FS, Nas', Ad astra et al, damn right there's Rodent paw prints all over the shop in the Qantas dispute. Joyce gets a 70% pay rise and f*ck the people who actually do the work. Who'd be cheering that, I wonder?

Yet "aspirational" morons still trot out the bullshit that the Liars Party is the workers' friend. Those that had a dose of SerfChoices certainly didn't believe that. Phone Card has been working in the background on SerfChoices Mk III for some time.

And what other reason to ground Qantas flights than an attempt to cause maximum embarrassment to the government as CHOGM ends? However, the email proving it was premeditated will put the plotters squarely in the frame.

In any case, Commonwealth leaders would be astute and well informed enough to see through this transparent and cretinous stunt.

jane

October 30. 2011 08:53 PM

Miglo

Sorry to hear about your loss, Nas.

Miglo

October 30. 2011 08:56 PM

Sir Ian Crisp



No FS, what I was after was your justification for this specific comment –

“It's no surprise Peter Reith is all over this action by Qantas' Management like the Industrial Relations scumbag that he is.”

I mean you've now widened your attack, but you've specifically said Reith was involved.

Is there justification for it, or did you just get carried away and make it up?
Tom of Melbourne



Here is your answer Tom.

My grandfather was without work for over a year in 1929 as he fought for better pay and conditions for Merchant Seamen, the strike which eventually led to the downfall of the Conservative government of Stanley Bruce. He was supported by my grandmother, who went out to work full-time in the Nestle Chocolate Factory, on the production line.Quite an unusual occurrence in those days, pre World War 2. All the men were also supported by the Irish-Australian community, who made sure they and their families were all fed, and had a roof over their heads for the duration of the strike. Which is what the capitalists cannot counteract. Solidarity. Although they have had a decades-long project to atomise and instil fear into the workforce, especially by attempting to smash the Unions.This cannot be allowed to succeed. I'll be doing all I can to make sure they don't win this battle they have pulled on, that's for sure. Till my dying breath.
Feral Skeleton

  

Feral loves the struggle; storming the barricades and wearing her Che Guevara T-shirt; lending her support to various struggles like the intolerable conditions that the Gosford Beekeepers must bear. For Feral it’s the old class struggle and it has been dinned into her head by grandpa and grandma. She was brainwashed and now it’s in her DNA. Sadly, some people are not happy unless they have an ‘enemy’.

It still hasn’t been explained why those underpaid Qantas workers can’t seek another career.

Sir Ian Crisp

October 30. 2011 09:17 PM

jane

You mean, why can't Alan Joyce take a smaller cut than 70%, while trashing the miserly 5% the workers are asking? If Qantas is in trouble financially, how come he's got his fat greedy paw out for a 70% increase; he obviously hasn't earned it.

He seems to have a lot more in common with the robber barons at Enron, Lehman Bros and Goldman Sachs than anyone is admitting.

And funny that Phone Card is all over this dispute.

jane

October 30. 2011 09:24 PM

Feral Skeleton

Sir Ian Crisp,
              I feel sorry for you when I contemplate the vacuous existence and the existential void that your comments suggest to me is the sum total of your life.

Feral Skeleton

October 30. 2011 09:44 PM

Feral Skeleton

Tom of Melbourne,
                 You want me to justify my attack on Peter Reith? What are you on? I suppose I imagined his conspiracy with Corrigan in the Waterfront Dispute. He's really a little angel. How could I have so misrepresented the poor petal?

   I mean, have you decided that, since the ALP will probably vote at their upcoming National Conference to allow a Conscience Vote in the federal parliament on the Same Sex Marriage issue that you have to find a new hobby horse to ride into TPS on? And that old nag is named, Peter Reith?

   I mean, really, ToM, Peter Reith would spit in my eye as soon as look at me, considering my sympathies for the workers he wishes to crush underfoot in the name of 'flexibility', 'productivity', and 'profit'. And you want to defend his honour here?

   Nay(or should that be, neigh?). You just want to insult me and he is your latest tool to beat me around the head with. Sad.

Feral Skeleton

October 30. 2011 10:13 PM

Feral Skeleton

jane,
     Didn't you know that it's just not done old girl to allow the 'units of production' to get a wage increase to keep up with the Cost of Living, instead of an effective pay cut, like they have been getting away with in the USA for the last 25 years or so?

   I mean, you just can't have the likes of the eponymous Sir Ian Crisp, not being able to afford to keep the Executive Jet and Luxury Vessel Industries afloat? It's their civic duty, and how dare the employees in the businesses that they bleed dry have one of those little legally-sanctioned uprising thingys they call a Strike.

Feral Skeleton

October 30. 2011 10:27 PM

Feral Skeleton

   This article from September 17 sume up the IR Clubs attitude nicely:

  www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg9lx-1226139330104

Feral Skeleton

October 30. 2011 10:30 PM

Feral Skeleton

   And here's Leigh Clifford himself, back on April 25 making it plain what he thinks:

   www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg6nf-1226044213276

Feral Skeleton

October 30. 2011 10:57 PM

Tom of Melbourne

So in the absence of any evidence FS, I presume we can safely assume you just made up your comment about Reith’s involvement.

Tom of Melbourne

October 30. 2011 11:06 PM

nasking

jane & Migs,
thnx for the kind comments, I've relayed them to S' who sends her best wishes too. Been a topsy turvy time. I hope all is well w/ both of you & yer families. Jane, sorry to hear about yer wee friend. So sad. Life has its cruel moments...but also so many wonderful ones.

Great job per usual w/ Cafe Whispers.

And yes, Alan Joyce & the Coalition have alot of questions to answer. Somethin' stinks in the state of Australia.

Useful addition to my analysis of Hartcher's article Ad. Well done.

And what other reason to ground Qantas flights than an attempt to cause maximum embarrassment to the government as CHOGM ends?

jane,
add to the mix creating a major distraction during the "mining tax" week.

Demonstrates to the people that the right-wing are big economic saboteurs...anything to get their way. Very dangerous. Another drastic measure to harm tourism & other businesses putting pressure on govt revenue...attempt to make it harder to reach the surplus.

N'

nasking

October 30. 2011 11:12 PM

Feral Skeleton

Tom of Melbourne,
                 Prove that Peter Reith isn't involved.

  He is part of the background noise and behind the scenes machinations which have been ramping up over IR recently. They have identified the part of the Fair Work Act that they don't like and have developed their campaign against it. This is their test case. Please refer to the proof I provide in the links above. If that's not enough for you, then you simply don't want to be convinced and you have reverted to being a troll and I will subsequently ignore you.

Feral Skeleton

October 30. 2011 11:27 PM

Tom of Melbourne

I agree that Leigh Clifford is involved. He’s chairman of Qantas.

We also have some analysis of IR, fine that’s something the media is supposed to do.

But somehow this translates to ”  Peter Reith is all over this action by Qantas' Management”

By all means, post away, but how on earth is anything you’ve provided persuasive of this assertion?

Tom of Melbourne

October 30. 2011 11:31 PM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        Exactly, if the Coalition and their facilitators and enablers can't get their way by bullying the government, they'll sabotage them instead. Don't forget who is leading the Coalition, the man who got Pauline Hanson put into jail so as to get her out of the political picture. I wouldn't put anything past him.

   Btw, sorry to hear about your black pussy. Smile
I had one who passed away from the same malady at 14y.o. It was my first pet. Imbalaska. I cried for hours when my parents told me. Frown

Feral Skeleton

October 31. 2011 12:34 AM

NormanK

TODAY'S LINKS

How pokies pre-commitment puts you back in charge
Neil Levy   The Conversation

The debate over the use of mandatory pre-commitment technology in poker machines is the latest front in an ongoing war that pits advocates of personal responsibility against people motivated by concerns over harm reduction.
theconversation.edu.au/how-pokies-pre-commitment-puts-you-back-in-charge-3690

No faith in “anti-terrorism” laws
Crispin Hull

Now would be a good time to put an end to two things inherited from the Howard Government: the likely-to-be ruled-unconstitutional school-chaplains scheme and the human-rights-infringing anti-terrorism laws.
http://www.crispinhull.com.au/

And Justices for all
David Horton   The Watermelon Blog

Look forget about the Monarchists for a moment. The ones with flags and funny hats and collections of Charles and Diana commemorative mugs; the ones who camp out for two days on the street to possibly catch a glimpse of a gloved hand waving from a speeding limousine; the ones who spontaneously sing “god save the queen” or are in tears at the thought that they have been in the same public space as a person of royal blood.
http://davidhortonsblog.com/

Barking at Nothing, Part 2
Andrew Elder   Politically homeless

Why is there a parliamentary press gallery? What is it for? It is an institution that has outlived its usefulness, and it is a symptom of mainstream media failure that they continue to focus on it as much as they do.
andrewelder.blogspot.com/2011_10_01_archive.html

Victoria: Police Minister denies knowledge of Overland plot
Video   Australian Politics TV

Well it looks like the Baillieu government is in further turmoil with revelations that advisors to the Police Minister (and Deputy Premier), Peter Ryan were behind a relentless campaign to see former Police Commissioner, Simon Overland, dumped. 
australianpoliticstv.org/.../

In which the pond deals with fraught matters of hospitality, vestments and the Sydney Anglicans ...
Dorothy Parker   Loon Pond

In short, if say the heretic Cardinal Pell was to turn up at the Sydney Anglicans looking for a nice hot buttered scone and a cup of tea, perhaps even a lamington heaped with desiccated coconut, sad to say, he shouldn't be received, or given a greeting, because that would only be taking part in his wicked works.
http://loonpond.blogspot.com/

Open Letter to Qantas - Australians Will Not Forget
Eugene Tomison   Independent Australia

For those in middle management at Qantas who did not fight for jobs to stay in Australia, remember — if you’re not at the top of the company, your jobs can be outsourced too.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

Abbott’s duplicity: Mamamia and the Mad Monk
Jennifer Wilson   No Place For Sheep

Until Tony Abbott makes public statements to the contrary, women would be most unwise to accept any assurances that he’s changed his mind on women’s reproductive rights, especially as they are so clearly set out on his website. There is no mistaking his position.
http://noplaceforsheep.com/

Book review: Lindsay Tanner’s Sideshow
The Piping Shrike

Tanner is well aware that a book from a key government player who left it on the day that it met one of the most extraordinary ends of any since Federation, would be expected to have at least something to say about it. Too bad.
http://www.pipingshrike.com/

Geo-engineering: why research something we never want to use?
Kirsty Kuo   The Conversation

What if the world left it too long to take action on global climate change? Is there a way we could somehow cool the planet before an environmental crisis occurs?
Geo-engineering is a potential course of action, but it should only be used as an absolute last resort.
theconversation.edu.au/geo-engineering-why-research-something-we-never-want-to-use-3684

Perth app developer wins $1.1m capital
Renai LeMay   Delimiter

Wow. This is how fast Australian startups can develop at the moment. Filter Squad was founded in January 2011, won $200k of investment almost instantly, achieved a million downloads of its apps and then took a second $1.1 million round less than a year later. Anyone who thinks Australian startups are disadvantaged compared to the rest of the world, or that our local startup scene is not hopping, is crazy.
delimiter.com.au/.../

Anderson: Something has got to give
Lainie Anderson   Adelaide Now

Pubs and clubs do good things for their communities - just like lots of other local businesses who sponsor sporting and special-interest groups. But despite what the industry would have us believe, pokie venues aren't all run for altruistic purposes (a Sydney Morning Herald investigation found the biggest NSW clubs donate just 2.7 per cent of earnings back to communities).
www.adelaidenow.com.au/.../story-fn6br25t-1226180327046

Qantas – the stalled kangaroo
Ash Ghebranious   Ash's Machiavellian Bloggery

I really got nothing to add to the debate although I cant help thinking about this. Take your pick of alternate story morals ...
ashghebranious.wordpress.com/.../

NormanK

October 31. 2011 12:55 AM

jane

FS @10.13pm. sorry, I'd forgotten how tough the likes of Sir Ian and CEOs everywhere are doing.

How thoughtless of me to overlook their need for mansions on the North Shore and a helipad for the helicopter, which will be denied to their worthy selves by the evil machinations of these union types with their paltry demands. Tugs forelock.

I promise I'll know my place in future. Backs away slowly, with lowered eyes, bent double, tugging forelock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3E5vYNzrds

Nas' you can only call them wreckers and I mean in the same sense as the wreckers who lured ships onto rocks with no thought for the welfare of the seamen on board.

Similarly, this latest corporate attack on the government shows that these people are wreckers in the very worst sense of the word. They don't care who or what they harm in the process.

Also, as has been remarked here and elsewhere, this mob is absolutely desperate to force an early election. They're running scared about something: like CEF being implemented, the increased tax free threshold, increased pension payments, compensation payments, lower tax for small business, MRRT being implemented, increased superannuation, NBN.....the list is amazing.

And that's what has them wetting their pants. When people see what this government has achieved, Liealot and his cheerleaders will be stuffed.

jane

October 31. 2011 07:39 AM

TalkTurkey

Good Parliamentary Morning Swordsfolks,

Quote of the Month: (Kiss to unknown originator) -

"Now Barnaby is only the second-stupidest Joyce in Oz."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Today is the last day to front a submission to the Media Inquiry.


  

TalkTurkey

October 31. 2011 08:20 AM

Ad astra reply

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra reply

October 31. 2011 09:00 AM

Michael

Peter Hartcher is all over the shop here:

www.smh.com.au/.../...ll-sides-20111030-1mqhz.html

as most of the commentators responding there observe.

My own response?

Somehow the 'little man grandstanding' that was John Howard as PM has become the model for leadership in this country. It never was anything but hot air, leaking as it blustered.

To have a PM that calls on the laws of the country to deal with crises both real and manufactured should be seen as both a ratification of Australian democracy and an endorsement of that PM's responsibility to the nation.

Not to the skill of goalpost-shifting that was John Howard's signature as PM.

Michael

October 31. 2011 09:16 AM

2353

Fair and accurate reporting from the ABC.

Qantas management has been told to get its aircraft back in the sky and drop its plans to lock out its workforce tonight.

Early this morning the workplace umpire put a stop to all industrial action by the airline and unions, saying it was acting to prevent significant damage to the tourism and airline industries.

www.abc.net.au/.../3609158


The shame is that fair and accurate is "worthy" of posting on a blogsite.

2353

October 31. 2011 09:19 AM

Michael

With such 20/20 hindsight wisdom as the quoted article below from Dennis Shanahan displays, you wonder why he didn't just phone up the PM and put her right a week or two back. In the national interest, the act of any good citizen.

Or is he just peddling retro-Nostradamus BS here? "Told ya, told ya!" (behind the paywall, natch)

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frgd0x-1226180911998

'Julia Gillard has been caught in yet another crisis not of her doing and with limited ability to act decisively as the economy is damaged and public confidence undermined.

Yet again, the Prime Minister has been pitch-forked into trouble without warning, under-prepared, lacking a fallback position and ill-served by some of her colleagues.

This government seems endlessly capable of assuming things will turn out right and not being prepared when the worst-case scenario eventuates.

While Gillard acted determinedly once the trigger of "damage to the national economy" had been pulled, she has been reluctant about becoming involved in a dispute that involves some of the most influential unions -- when she is weak and needs to shore up her leadership. Gillard didn't even use rhetorical pressure or moral persuasion on Qantas or the unions, while her Workplace Relations Minister, Chris Evans, government involvement.

This reticence to even express a view came as the travelling public, Qantas shareholders and the tourism industry became increasingly frustrated and fearful of a destructive and cynical union campaign that threatened to bleed Qantas to death.

When Qantas responded and grounded its fleet to bring the dispute to a head and force the government to intervene it was as if it hadn't been considered as a possibility.

The government's public responses reflected old union loyalties, uncertainty about the Fair Work Act and a failure to grasp the real financial threat.

It's true Qantas also used cynical and hardline tactics in the dispute and may have done itself harm with the travelling public with its sudden grounding, but more than two weeks ago Tourism Minister Martin Ferguson raised the prospect of government intervention to settle a dispute that was threatening Qantas and the tourism industry.

Given Qantas was thinking about grounding its fleet for a while, why did no one in the government consider this a possibility without being told - just as they seemed incapable of imagining a High Court defeat on offshore processing of asylum-seekers. It's probably because the government spends too much time dealing with each crisis. Well, now there's another one.'

Michael

October 31. 2011 09:36 AM

Feral Skeleton

   Amazing, isn't it, how the Right, whose stock-in-trade is to frighten everyone out of their nighties and champion the virtues of the market to deal with things better than government, run crying to the Nanny State as soon as the frighteners they're trying to put on the Unions, and the inconvenience they have caused to the travelling public, doesn't work in the way they had pre-planned? All of a sudden they begin demanding a Command and Control State. Pathetic losers.

Feral Skeleton

October 31. 2011 10:31 AM

Feral Skeleton

   Alan Joyce said Business was supportive of his actions. Not if you read this small business blog:

   www.newsagencyblog.com.au/.../

Feral Skeleton

October 31. 2011 10:46 AM

BSA Bob

Michael & F.S. above.
I'd just read the Hartcher article when I came on here, flicked through the Shanahan rant you quoted.
Now that the dust appears to be settling on the immediate dispute we can look forward to a barrage of "Gillard should've..." stuff to put her in a bad light.
As contradictory as all hell, abandoning any previous policies or positions in the knowledege they might be picked up on it by three or four commentators at most they'll just press on.
Perhaps they mean the Government should have intervened along the lines of Howard & Reith etc during the Waterfront dispute. But they had more than three hours then to make their plans, didn't they?

BSA Bob

October 31. 2011 10:53 AM

nasking

Amazing, isn't it, how the Right, whose stock-in-trade is to frighten everyone out of their nighties and champion the virtues of the market

Feral,
indeed. I was tryin' to think of a Halloween mask for Qantas CEO Alan Joyce...perhaps Acerbic Conehead could think of a corporate puppet/villian from the comics/movies/TV series.

Then Chris Corrigan popped into my mind...and Tony Abbott, John Howard & Peter Reith...they'd certainly scare the workers' & families neighborhoods...

but I decided this mask would be far scarier...and is more apt:

Solomon Trujillo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Trujillo

During the period of Trujillo's tenure, Telstra's share price underperformed the market by around twenty percent, losing over $25 billion in value[6][7] while customer complaints rose 300 percent...

In the BBC interview, Trujillo cited Australia's "very restrictive" immigration policies and rigid rules on company privatisation as his evidence for the nation being backward and racist...

The day after Trujillo made his comments about Australia to the BBC, many Australians took to online news sites, television news programs and talk-back radio to voice their opinions, with many stating Trujillo had wrecked the value and brand of Telstra during his time as CEO of the company.
(wikipedia)

AND:

TELSTRA'S chief executive, Sol Trujillo, and his six senior executives are set to pocket yet another bonus - this time a windfall of $11.6 million - when a cornerstone investor buys a stake of more than 15 per cent in the company.

Fund managers told the Herald that the so-called performance rights for Mr Trujillo and his senior executives would become available as early as May. The rights would be vested without having to meet performance hurdles and without an investor making a full takeover bid. The board would need to override the incentive plan to stop it and has not indicated it will do so.

The latest revelations come after Mr Trujillo's $8.7 million salary package, which included a $2.6 million bonus, prompted outrage from investors and the Government. He doesn't own a share. The Prime Minister has urged investors to grill the board on Mr Trujillo's salary at Telstra's annual meeting on November 14.

(SMH)

www.smh.com.au/.../1162056926206.html

Scary creatures & monsters...and super creeps.

N'

nasking

October 31. 2011 10:54 AM

Patricia WA

AC, you fondly have named as Batwoman
The one Tony Abbott fears as 'that woman!'

In light of achievements near super-human
I'd rather call her Superwoman!


AC, that's as far as I got with my response to your delicious article about JG's heroic deeds, then all the horrors of the weekend unfolded.  But looking back on it Alan Joyce has emerged as another one who shouldn't barney with our Batwoman!  He may have got more than he bargained for in pushing the government into seeking the termination ruling by Fair Work Australia, rather than the suspension sought by the Unions.

Whatever the machinations which had Coalition premiers and Tony Abbott urging the Prime Minister to intervene in the Qantas dispute during the royal visit and CHOGM, followed by Joyce's ultimatum by phone messages to her while she was still engaged in Commonwealth heads of government discussions, Julia Gillard kept her head and her distance.  She stayed calm and in control, every inch a leader, when along with all her other responsibilities she was required to address the nation about our worst losses to date in Afghanistan.

Lenore Taylor had this to say abput the Qantas crisis in www.theage.com.au/.../...tions-20111030-1mqhb.html
In the first instance it is a leadership test for the Prime Minister and the new industrial laws she designed. If her intervention results in Qantas rapidly returning to the skies and the industrial dispute being brought to a relatively quick end, both she and the laws will have passed it. If that doesn't happen it will add dangerously to the sense of a government not in control.


Well she seems to have passed that test and plenty more not just in the past week but over the past year. She is indeed  brave and thinking.  She is also a very warm and empathetic woman, of considerable charisma.   More and more I see comments everywhere about her strength of character, her intellect and her political skills.  That is becoming increasingly clear to the public no matter how the media starve her of exposure and some commentators spin her achievements into failures.  No matter how many insults and wrecking balls are hurled at her by Abbott and the Opposition and vested interests like Qantas, Crown Casino and mining magnates, she stands strong!

Time for the Political Sword cheer squad to get organised, hey ladies, with Lyn back soon!  Of course, AA, TT, Norman, and AC are obviously already members too!  But from now on we shouldn't be just a leftie cheer squad, but a *J*U*L*I*A* cheer squad.   I've often wanted to add pictures to comments here about the PM. I can do it at polliepomes.wordpress.com/.../  So first of all,  what are the technicalities of putting pictures of her on this site, so that we enhance our comments about her and her achievements?  

Patricia WA

October 31. 2011 11:15 AM

Feral Skeleton

PatriciaWA,
            There are lots of lovely pictures of the PM about, aren't there? I'm not quite sure that we can put up the pictures directly though. Same with You Tube. Unlike Cafe Whispers, which might have a different blog engine. I'll leave the technical answer to Ad Astra.

Feral Skeleton

October 31. 2011 11:17 AM

TalkTurkey

Folks

Here is my eleventh-hour Submission to Australia's Independent Media Inquiry.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


It is said that Rupert Murdoch's worldwide empire includes 70% of Australia's print media, and a great deal of the rest of the media here also. In Adelaide as in some other cities there is only one newspaper, and where this is so, it is because Rupert Murdoch has killed off the original opposition. That he, a man who traded his Australian nationality for the greater wealth he could make by becoming an American citizen, can through this media domination virtually prosecute a war on this or any Australian Government is outrageous and intolerable.

Murdoch's own organisation is deeply corrupt, and he is not a fit person to control such a huge proportion of the means by which people receive information. I ask the investigators to use all means at their disposal to loosen Murdoch's stranglehold on Australian media, and to make those who foment hatred and misinformation in all media much more subject to being held to account.

Elsewhere in the world many are calling for the Murdoch dynasty to be dismantled, or at least diluted, and the voice of Australia, the most heavily murdochratised of all nations, should be at the forefront of this chorus.

[As I write Murdoch is being described on ABC 24 as "The media Sun-King"!  ]

This brings me to the other half of my concern: the downgrading of the ABC during the last decade, and in particular since the introduction of ABC 24. Never mind the inexpertise and glitches, the fact that when the Prime Minister is being interviewed at press conferences one can almost never hear the questions; it is the poor quality of many ABC journalists’ reportage, their trivialisation of serious issues, their acting as an echo-chamber for the mainly-Murdoch mainstream commercial media, their fascination with the skin-deep, that angers and saddens me. In particular the habit of giving prominence to antiscientific points of view – Monckton being but the most staring example – amounts to sabotage of Australian unity, and mischievous treachery on the part of the ABC. Despite repeated and reasonable objections over time, the Insiders show has insisted on including such as Andrew Bolt, the accredited racist hate-monger, and others who are equally bigoted, who make no secret of their extreme Rightist stance, and who time-out-of-mind have been permitted to interrupt and browbeat others who may have contrary views.

No such extreme Leftist points of view are ever aired, (and none are wanted), but there is no equivalence between the screeching from the Right, and the reasoned tones of everyone else. Why the ABC has continued to countenance and feature and indeed thereby promote discredited and divisive and hateful viewpoints and individuals is for the Inquirers to consider, but it amounts at least to mischief counter to the public good, and beyond that, an absolutely intolerable abuse of this our public broadcaster to promote anti-(Labor)-Government points of view.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Political Sword is a blogsite set up by a certain Ad astra three years ago with its avowed focus being to hold politicians and journalists to account insofar as the blogosphere allows. He is, I may say, very well struck in years, eminent in his original profession, experienced in matters of life, and articulate, considered, prolific and sensible in all his written deliberations, which are to be found in hyper-abundance on his site. He is universally regarded as a ‘sage’!  

The archives of TPS record the thoughts of Ad astra, and of many like myself who day by day think we might have something to contribute to the political and journalistic discourse. Most of us are mildly Leftish, but extremism of any kind seems to wither on TPS when it does arise. That is as it should be in the society also, but I accuse the agenda-driven mainstream media of prospering the hate-spitters rather. It is a pity that such as Ad astra and other social educators do not receive that sort of coverage. Unlike those who, through the media, arouse such mindless frenzy as those who stormed the galleries of the House of Representatives recently, Ad astra thinks matters through carefully before ‘speaking’. Unfortunately he doesn’t get to speak as do the shock jocks, a matter with dire consequences for the level of information in the public in this country.

Having read his work carefully day after day and month after month I realized just how fair and useful were Ad astra’s observations in matters political, and several months ago I prevailed on him as best I could to offer his services, by way of advice, to the ABC Board. I do think he was tempted, but he declined by reason of time constraints. He might yet be persuaded to give of his wisdom to those of a truly proactive and inquiring mind, and I do hope that might include yourselves. As for his bona fides, they are there for all to see.

The point is that Ad astra’s archived site itself is the body of my submission. All we good-willed and thoughtful people, we are not just writing in a momentary whim, this is the single issue that binds us, concern with the quality of the Media and its dynamic relationship with the Politics of this country.

We cannot say it any better than we have been saying it all along. The concentration of media is a disgrace and makes a mockery of any notion of egalitarian democracy, and the trivialization, misrepresentation and disinformation in matters of grave national interest is a dereliction and a serious  mischief. The ABC seems to have taken sides as Ad astra and others have contemporaneously pointed out in specific and exhaustive detail.

I entreat you to do whatever you can to bring about action to remedy this generally parlous state of affairs.

May I say that were you to take the initiative and contact Ad astra directly via his blogsite, you would earn a great deal of credibility and respect from the many who follow his essays and posts on his site, merely by the goodwill it would engender.

I intend to send this submission as a post on The Political Sword too, (so there is no confusion.)  

Ad astra himself has as I write not the slightest idea that I am so volunteering his advice.

He might be a bit embarrassed, as he would, but his wisdom is assuredly there for the asking.

An Afterthought:

Yesterday Ad astra said
“Folks
I thought Insiders was a reasonably balanced program this morning.”

. . . He might well have put a ! after that!


Yours faithfully

(My real name was here)



TalkTurkey

October 31. 2011 11:26 AM

jane

Hear! Hear! Michael.

The shame is that fair and accurate is "worthy" of posting on a blogsite.

Yes 2353, fair and accurate should be the default position for the msm. That it is not the case is a shameful indictment of the msm in this country.

Well, Michael, it looks like good old Shamaham's and the rest of the msm's crystal balls were in the repair shop, or they would have been trumpeting this foreknowledge far and wide, you would think.

Given Qantas was thinking about grounding its fleet for a while, why did no one in the government consider this a possibility without being told...

Gee, Denis, I don't know. The same reason you didn't know, I guess. Because it was being kept under wraps? Come to think of it, how come the Liars didn't know, or didn't let on?

jane

October 31. 2011 11:26 AM

NormanK

Worth quoting because it comes from an unlikely source.

Alister Drysdale is a Business Spectator commentator and a former senior advisor to Malcolm Fraser and Jeff Kennett.

Dr No can't last forever
by Alister Drysdale   Business Spectator

After all, the polls consistently and widely show an electoral wipe-out for Labor, and show Abbott as preferred prime minister.

However, perhaps it for that very reason these journalists are starting to question and analyse Abbott’s tactics, strategy and behaviour – and policy substance behind his avuncular veneer.

A forensic piece of commentary from the admired and influential political writer Laura Tingle in last Friday's Financial Review (I read it in the $2.80 printed version) was pithily scathing of Abbott.

************************************

In other words, she’s stoically going about her paid job as the nation’s political leader.

She’s stepped quickly into the unedifying Qantas dispute – there was no choice after the misjudged actions of the Qantas board and chief executive on Saturday. Her actions, words and demeanour were that of a Leader on top of her job.

These events – along with current Canberra commentary – are reminders of that ageless lesson for any politician: voters may enjoy the tizz, white noise and the spectacle of the race, but what we demand when it really matters are results.

It’s called substance beating style – and firm action beating hollow words. It also means playing the Dr No game can’t last forever.


www.businessspectator.com.au/.../Abbott-Gillard-carbon-tax-CHOGM-Qantas-China-pokie-pd20111031-N5QPB

NormanK

October 31. 2011 11:29 AM

nasking

Feral, thnx for yer kind words & I'm sorry for yer past loss too. The hurt is deep.

I was wondering what a PRIVATE EQUITY FUND Halloween costume would look like?

Could it be the Bain mask of the neighborhood?

www.smh.com.au/.../...-to-this-20110421-1dqda.html

or would it be an American flag over orange shirt w/ a scary hat from Myer and a pair of pirate pants that read:

Go Cayman Islands Monetary Authority!!! ...?

www.mondaq.com/.../article.asp?articleid=93202

Anyone wanna pool their money & buy News corp shares? They'll  be goin' cheap soon enuff:

Government under fire over alleged BBC licence fee talks with News Corp

John McDonnell MP calls for more details about ministerial meetings with News Corporation before licence fee settlement

John Plunkett guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 26 October 2011

The government has been urged to look again at the BBC's funding and reveal the extent to which it was discussed with News Corporation before last year's shotgun licence fee settlement.


John McDonnell MP claimed there were "undue influences from the Murdoch empire" in the hastily agreed settlement that saw the licence fee frozen for six years and the corporation take on a greater financial burden, including the BBC World Service.


Asked to provide evidence to back up his claims, McDonnell, the Labour MP for Hayes and Harlington in west London, said: "That's one of the issues we have been raising with ministers.


"It would be helpful if ministers could publish the information about the number of times that they met with the Murdoch empire to discuss the licence fee itself.


"Up until now we have not received any detailed information from them about the times that they met with Murdoch and the times they discussed the licence fee settlement."


McDonnell said James Murdoch, the under-fire deputy chief operating officer at News Corporation, had made it "quite clear" that he wanted a reduced licence fee so that News Corporation could "exploit and develop their own empire at the expense of the BBC".


www.guardian.co.uk/.../government-bbc-licence-discussions-murdoch

Flippin' thru the channels I noticed SKY Australia had Jamie Briggs on today:

Briggs was pre-selected as the Liberal candidate for the 2008 Mayo by-election to replace former Liberal leader and minister Alexander Downer. He won the seat, but with a significant swing against the Liberals compared to the 2007 federal election.

After the 2010 federal election, Briggs was given the position of Chairman of the Coalition’s Scrutiny of Government Waste Committee as part of the Tony Abbott led opposition.[4]

In September 2011 Briggs called for a return to individual contracts as part of Australia's industrial relations system despite Abbott ruling it out of Coalition policy [5] and in October 2011 Briggs called for a discussion in relation to the GST being applied to fruit and vegetables which Abbott also ruled out of Coalition policy.
(wikipedia)

Surprise surprise...

N'

nasking

October 31. 2011 11:30 AM

Michael

Alan (makes Barnaby look smart) Joyce said during his 10AM press conference this morning that he had been talking with the Government and the Opposition for the last few weeks about how to handle Qantas's simmering industrial relations issues.

Just why would he have been talking with the Opposition?

With his employees, his Board, shareholders, randomly encountered customers at the baggage carousel, the Government, I get.

What could talking with the Opposition possibly contribute to a positive resolution of this situation?

Oh.

Michael

October 31. 2011 11:36 AM

nasking

you can only call them wreckers and I mean in the same sense as the wreckers who lured ships onto rocks with no thought for the welfare of the seamen on board.

Spot on jane.

Yet the captains & commanders of the ships seem to make it ashore and are treated like heroes. Rewarded to their black heart's desire.

N'

nasking

October 31. 2011 11:43 AM

Feral Skeleton

Michael,
        Warren Truss openly admitted this morning he, as the Opposition's Transport Shadow, and the Opposition in general, had been having conversations with Alan Joyce, "for weeks".
   Though I must admit, that is a valid reason for him to have those conversations, as he is Shadow Transport Minister. What I query is what the coversations entailed?

Feral Skeleton

October 31. 2011 11:52 AM

nasking

It is said that Rupert Murdoch's worldwide empire includes 70% of Australia's print media, and a great deal of the rest of the media here also. In Adelaide as in some other cities there is only one newspaper, and where this is so, it is because Rupert Murdoch has killed off the original opposition.

Talk Turkey,
Surely yer not implying that Rupert Murdoch & his minions have undue influence over politicians & others who decide who gets what & where?

Surely not. Smile

Kelner accuses Cameron of self-interest over Leveson inquiry

He accused David Cameron of being motivated by a desire to deflect attention away from his own involvement with Rupert Murdoch and his decision to appoint Andy Coulson as his communications chief.

www.guardian.co.uk/.../simon-kelner-leveson-inquiry

I've got Victoria on my mind...

BTW, useful comment...particularly this apt observation:

Murdoch's own organisation is deeply corrupt, and he is not a fit person to control such a huge proportion of the means by which people receive information.

It's like the fictional Professor Moriarty controlling our media:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Moriarty

N'

nasking

October 31. 2011 12:04 PM

nasking

However, perhaps it for that very reason these journalists are starting to question and analyse Abbott’s tactics, strategy and behaviour – and policy substance behind his avuncular veneer.

Norman,
yes...bring on Mr. Goldman Sachs Turnbull. Then the world will change for the better. Smile

Goldman's offshore deals deepened global financial crisis

McClatchy has obtained previously undisclosed documents that provide a closer look at the shadowy $1.3 trillion market since 2002 for complex offshore deals, which Chicago financial consultant and frequent Goldman critic Janet Tavakoli said at times met "every definition of a Ponzi scheme."

The documents include the offering circulars for 40 of Goldman's estimated 148 deals in the Cayman Islands over a seven-year period, including a dozen of its more exotic transactions tied to mortgages and consumer loans that it marketed in 2006 and 2007, at the crest of the booming market for subprime mortgages to marginally qualified borrowers.

In some of these transactions, investors not only bought shaky securities backed by residential mortgages, but also took on the role of insurers by agreeing to pay Goldman and others massive sums if risky home loans nose-dived in value — as Goldman was effectively betting they would.

Some of the investors, including foreign banks and even Wall Street giant Merrill Lynch, may have been comforted by the high grades Wall Street ratings agencies had assigned to many of the securities. However, some of the buyers apparently agreed to insure Goldman well after the performance of many offshore deals weakened significantly beginning in June 2006.

Goldman said those investors were fully informed of the risks they were taking.

These Cayman Islands deals, which Goldman assembled through the British territory in the Caribbean, a haven from U.S. taxes and regulation, became key links in a chain of exotic insurance-like bets called credit-default swaps that worsened the global economic collapse by enabling major financial institutions to take bigger and bigger risks without counting them on their balance sheets.

The full cost of the deals, some of which could still blow up on investors, may never be known.

Before the subprime crisis, the U.S. financial system had used securities for 40 years to help Americans finance their houses, cars and college educations, said Gary Kopff, a financial services consultant and the president of Everest Management Inc. in Washington. The offshore deals, he lamented, "became the biggest contributors to the trillions of dollars of losses" in 2008's global meltdown.

While Goldman wasn't alone in the offshore deal making, it was the only big Wall Street investment bank to exit the subprime mortgage market safely, and it played a pivotal role, hedging its bets earlier and with more parties than any of its rivals did.


www.mcclatchydc.com/.../...ore-deals-deepened.html
---------------------

Norman;
from yer link:

Her actions, words and demeanour were that of a Leader on top of her job.

I agree w/ that.
Not easy dealin' w/ economic saboteurs w/ allies whose pockets are filled w/ gold.

Thnx for the link Norman...great job w/ yer daily stuff, filling in for the lovely & hardworkin' Lyn.

N'

nasking

October 31. 2011 12:10 PM

Ad astra reply

Political Sword Media Mash

Two opinions on the Qantas dispute

We have this morning another opinion piece by Peter Hartcher who seems to be getting grumpier with PM Gillard by the day, and one from Lenore Taylor that shows how to write a balanced piece.


Shutdown exposes failure of leadership on all sides, an opinion piece by Peter Hartcher, Sydney Morning Herald, October 31, 2011.

www.smh.com.au/.../...ll-sides-20111030-1mqhz.html

The piece begins with a video captioned: As the lengthy industrial dispute within Qantas resolves, the Coalition is on the offensive over the timing of Labor's intervention. Tony Abbott gets the first say; you can anticipate what will follow!  Then the text begins:

The Qantas management cannot be prevented from making radical decisions if it's hell-bent on it, but the federal government cannot allow it to withdraw an essential national service in the process.

“The unions were being unreasonable and the Qantas response was extreme, but the moment Qantas notified the government of its sneak shutdown this ceased to be an industrial dispute. It became a national emergency.

“Prime Minister Julia Gillard was wrong to refer the matter to what she calls the "industrial umpire", Fair Work Australia, and sit back to wait for the industrial judges to hear all parties and weigh all arguments before deciding what to do.”


No ifs or buts from Hartcher – the PM ‘was wrong’.  Note the tenor of his words: ”… to refer the matter to what she calls the "industrial umpire", Fair Work Australia, and sit back to wait…” Doesn’t everyone else call Fair Work Australia the industrial umpire?  So why is it somehow not de rigueur for PM Gillard?  Note …sit back and wait…; in other words dilly dally.  Already readers can see which way Hartcher is heading.

This is not an ordinary argument between boss and worker. Australia is an island. The single most important channel for people to move between Australia and the world is Qantas, which carries one out of five international travellers.

“By allowing a shutdown, the government condoned social, business, economic and reputational damage on a national scale. It was a strategic partial isolation of an island continent. And it was quite unnecessary. Gillard should have demanded an immediate ministerial order directing the end of industrial action by the unions and the company. This would have kept the fleet flying. Fair Work Australia could have dealt with the dispute without damage to the national interest in the meantime.”


Now Hartcher gets more condemnatory, accusing the PM of ‘allowing’ a shutdown, and ‘condoning’ all sorts of damage.  He’s warming up, and his readers with him.

”Gillard, who was an industrial lawyer before entering Parliament and who crafted the existing Fair Work laws, is continuing to see the matter through the lens of an industrial law practitioner. This is wrong. She needs to see it not through the lens of her former positions but her present one - Prime Minister.”

Hartcher continues his condemnation: This is wrong.  Again, no ifs or buts.  Now we know it’s an opinion piece, but why not provide some evidence to confirm how the PM is actually viewing the matter, rather than assuming it and then condemning her for it.  Talk about straw men!

To be fair to Gillard, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce deliberately blindsided the government with its shutdown. The airline could have asked the government to intervene in its dispute with the unions any time in recent weeks. It did not.

“Even so, Qantas should have given the government as much notice as possible. It gave it only three hours. Still, crises test leaders. Gillard has failed the test of this crisis.”


So Hartcher leaves it until the third and fourth last paragraphs to mention the circumstances that were constraining the PM, which of course were of critical importance in her crafting a response, particularly as she was pre-occupied with CHOGM.  

Hartcher’s words “to be fair to Gillard” ring hollow after all the criticism he has heaped on her in his first eight paragraphs.  Why not put that ‘fairness’ up front?  I think we know why.


But this crisis is also a test of Tony Abbott. He insisted the crisis was a matter of Gillard's competence, not of policy. But one of his MPs, Jamie Briggs, flatly contradicted him: "Absolutely this is a policy issue. These laws were written to give unions more power."

“But this is a fight Abbott does not want to have. The crisis has exposed anew his failure to craft a positive agenda of reform. We see leadership failure all round.”


So at the very end he throws in criticism of Tony Abbott, to give ‘balance’ I suppose, but knowing full well most readers will never reach there.

Here we have another Hartcher classic.  Intent on heaping condemnation on PM Gillard over how she ‘handled’ the matter, he lampoons her in his customary style, without attempting the reasoning necessary to make his case.  He fails to address the stated reason why the PM decided on referral to Fair Work Australia rather than using a never-previously-used provision of the Act whereby she could have terminated the dispute herself, namely that such a move could have been thwarted by a lengthy legal challenge.  The PM wanted rapid action, which is what she got.

Why does Hartcher believe he has a better handle on how this matter ought to have been managed than Julia Gillard, who created the Act?  What arrogance from a journalist who has exhibited no outstanding understanding of industrial relations in previous writings.  It looks like just another attempt at Gillard bashing by someone who believes she and her Government are terminal.  So why not hasten their political demise.  I hope he reads the comments that followed.

Now for Lenore Taylor’s opinion.


Critical test for Gillard on industrial relations an opinion piece by Lenore Taylor, Sydney Morning Herald, October 31, 2011

www.smh.com.au/.../...elations-20111030-1mqhb.html

Let's get this straight. The Coalition, which has for years banged on about the dangers of compulsory industrial arbitration, is attacking the Gillard government for not intervening in the Qantas dispute sooner and under a legislative provision that would have forced an arbitrated outcome more quickly.

“And Alan Joyce has taken the ''nuclear option'', using provisions of Labor's Fair Work Act, which business groups insist affords far too much power to unions.

“Like all watershed industrial disputes, the Qantas dispute will have both immediate political ramifications and a longer-term influence on the industrial relations debate.

“In the first instance it is a leadership test for the Prime Minister and the new industrial laws she designed. If her intervention results in Qantas rapidly returning to the skies and the industrial dispute being brought to a relatively quick end, both she and the laws will have passed it. If that doesn't happen it will add dangerously to the sense of a government not in control.”


As we know the matter was resolved, after Lenore submitted her piece.  So PM Gillard gets a tick.

“Attempting to hasten that judgment, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott yesterday claimed Julia Gillard could have avoided all the economic and personal pain caused by the Qantas grounding if she had just intervened under a different section of the Fair Work Act during the three hours on Saturday between when she was confidentially informed by Qantas of its decision and when it actually did it.

“The government says using the Coalition's preferred mechanism (section 431 of the Fair Work Act) would still have required an application to Fair Work Australia under a section of the act that has a higher threshold than the one it used, and could well have been challenged by the parties to the dispute.
“In other words, the outcome likely would have been exactly the same as the one we have got. Except the government would have set a precedent encouraging warring industrial parties to bypass the industrial umpire and go straight to the minister.[/i]

Goodness me, Lenore is using ‘industrial umpire’.

”Once we are past that point of difference, the positions of Labor and the Coalition appear to be exactly the same: that Fair Work Australia should rapidly conciliate, then probably arbitrate this dispute - which, for the longer-term industrial relations debate, is an interesting situation.

“Business groups have been arguing that the spate of industrial disputes is evidence that the Fair Work Act is not working, that it is giving unions more power to intervene in issues like outsourcing and offshoring and contracting that are properly the domain of company management, and that in the longer term it needs to be changed.

“But by taking this course Joyce would appear to think that arbitration under the Fair Work Act offers him the best prospects of restructuring his company.

“And the opposition's industrial relations spokesman, Eric Abetz, said the dispute was a reflection on the Prime Minister, but not on the Fair Work Act.”


Now that is what I call a balanced opinion piece.  Please read it Peter Hartcher and lift your game, and please let your grumpiness with our PM dissipate.

Ad astra reply

October 31. 2011 12:18 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Perhaps then AA or one of you would explain why the government chose to legislate a power for itself in the FW Act (to terminate industrial action) but then chose not to exercise it.

If it was a judgement made by the government, it is a judgement that is open to criticism.

Tom of Melbourne

October 31. 2011 12:33 PM

2353

AA.  Can I suggest you send your Mash-up post above to MediaWatch as a suggestion for further investigation.

TOM - Simply until Joyce went nuclear, there wasn't a case for anyone calling a national emergency.  One hour and four hour stop works do not by themselves stop people from travelling completely.  Furthermore if Joyce was interested in negotiation or abitration he (or the Qantas Board or the Union/s) could have applied to FWA for a hearing.

2353

October 31. 2011 12:43 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Joyce/Qantas gave the government the option of using the power they had legislated for themselves.

The government made a judgement not to use that power. Fine, but the media and the public is entitled to analyse and criticise that judgement.

Equally, if one of the unions involved – TWU - was not headed by a candidate for ALP presidency, would the judgement have been different?

I find it odd that AA would be willing to criticise the legitimate interest of the media in examining these issues.

Tom of Melbourne

October 31. 2011 12:53 PM

Patricia WA

A propos of much of the commentary in the MSM on the PM's performance as discussed above I loved this comment at the Pollbludger by a blogger called "confessions"

Posted Monday, October 31, 2011 at 12:21 pm | Permalink
ShockJockCoach Fake Coaching  by latingle

Julia could personally disarm hijackers & land the plane & the listeners would complain she delayed the food service #shewillneverwin.   Ain’t that the truth!

Patricia WA

October 31. 2011 02:34 PM

Ad astra reply

Talk Turkey
I’m just catching up with earlier comments today, having spent time this morning writing Political Sword Media Mash commentary.

Congratulations on your well written submission to the Independent Media Inquiry, and thank you for all the complimentary remarks you made about TPS and me.  Such comments make the continuous task of sustaining the site worthwhile.  

I do hope that during its deliberations the Inquiry will pay some attention to the several quality political blog sites who point to defects in the media every day.

Ad astra reply

October 31. 2011 02:49 PM

jane

Excellent link, NormanK @11.26am. Although Shamaham is doing his best to paddle against the current.

Warren Truss openly admitted this morning he, as the Opposition's Transport Shadow, and the Opposition in general, had been having conversations with Alan Joyce, "for weeks".

Quelle amazement, FS! I'm sure that you are as astonished as I, that Sir Reversalot and his fellow conspirators would have stooped to such underhanded and opportunistic behaviour!

I'm sure they were just negotiating bulk discounts for the Liars Party's next bonding session in Oodnadatta.

It's like the fictional Professor Moriarty controlling our media

The Emperor taught Moriarty, Nas'.

Goldman Sachs, that's where Gordon Gecko learnt ethics, isn't it?

Ad astra, Hartcher seems to have lost the ability to reason. Could it be that his head has been inserted in Liealot's backside for too long?

Too true, Patricia WA.

jane

October 31. 2011 03:14 PM

BSA Bob

Qantas & its defenders' lines read like the self justification of the psychopathic wife beater- "See what ya've made me do NOW!! ya 'ckin' bitch!!!!"

BSA Bob

October 31. 2011 05:16 PM

nasking

Hartcher’s words “to be fair to Gillard” ring hollow after all the criticism he has heaped on her in his first eight paragraphs.  Why not put that ‘fairness’ up front?

Ad,
Hartcher could work for SKY NEWS or The Australian...same style...provide the target w/ a pat on the back after ya just gobbed on them from on high.

BTW, the Media Mash format is useful...I used to do same on RTS, Blogocrats & at The Cafe...puts the opinion writer's piece under the magnifying glass and helps to identify problematics, bias, agenda, inconsistencies...etc. etc.

Thought PM Gillard was on fire in parliament today, as were most of the government.

Abbott looked shrivelled and desperate...loony grins emanating from a scary skull that would compete w/ the Halloween pumpkin sitting on the porch.

The PM tore into the Libs & their hypocrisy & insincerity late in the parliamentary session...it was somethin' to behold. I had a good chuckle at the Libs' misery. What a bedraggled & motley crew...soiled by their own unprincipled march...led by the Mad Monk to the edge of oblivion.

N'

nasking

October 31. 2011 05:17 PM

Jason

Sir Ian
       Ever thought about the restaurant game? you produce such a great line of waffle it could be the start of a new career.

Jason

October 31. 2011 05:23 PM

Feral Skeleton

   I can't decide whether Tom of Melbourne is a Right Wing Industrial Warrior, hell bent on advocating government by Ministerial fiat and business practice by dictat, or a Stalinist Socialist Big Government Interventionist?

   Or a Right Wing Troll simply parroting the Opposition's talking points without understanding the law behind them.

   Simply put, s431 of the Fair Work Act, relating to Ministerial or Prime Ministerial intervention in IR disputes, is an action of last resort wherein the PM comes in over the top of all parties and directs them all to cease Industrial Action. However, the intervention is subject to judicial review, which can be initiated by either party to a dispute, and probably would be. Such action would therefore leave an industrial dispute in limbo until a court had ruled on the propriety of the intervention. Which in this case would mean that Qantas could have left it's planes on the ground until the judge in the Industrial Court ruled.

   I think using s424, and having the planes turned around within 48 hours of their mass grounding was by far the smarter move.  However, as the Opposition, and their lackeys who seek to make mischief on blogs such as this, aren't too well-endowed in the smarts department, we must endure their abysmal attempted attack on the government's actions based upon spurious reasoning.

Feral Skeleton

October 31. 2011 05:39 PM

Patricia WA

Front page seems to be down.  Came in via Archive again, then to Batwoman thread.

I want to get this in first up. I think it's really important.  Interesting query at Pollbludger about the welfare of animals in transit with Qantas over the weekend.  One well worth making a fuss about.
See this one from Puff, the Magic Dragon.
Posted Monday, October 31, 2011 at 3:28 pm | Permalink
at Comment 158.  blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comments

Patricia WA

October 31. 2011 05:39 PM

nasking

you produce such a great line of waffle it could be the start of a new career.

LOL Jason.

That's almost as funny as US Republican Herman Cain's 9/9/9 plan.

Have you seen his latest ad w/ his campaign manager smoking whilst Herman gives this chesire cat grin like he just gave it yer partner?

On NBC Meet the Press today Tom Brokaw got stuck into the tobacco promotion:

"...maybe 9/9/9 stands for 9 mths to live with lung cancer...
9 mths to live with emphysema...and 9 mths to live with coronary heart disease."

Indeed. Responsible guy Cain...but hey, when ya wanna win over those Independents who luv to crave the wild side, the easy ride & dream of Deadwood...I guess ya gotta turn yer principles off and go w/ instinct.

Perhaps Cain & his campaign dude can visit the cancer wards & help pick up the wild side/easy rider pieces on the highways of hell once they lose the Republican campaign and realise that sporting a moral age of thirteen years old might come in handy winning over a few 1970s adolescents throwin' abuse and popcorn at each other in a screening of The Warriors...

but it ain't gonna cut it in the long run in a country goin' bankrupt in the healthcare area...wakin' up to the fact that relyin' on cancer stick revenue instead of helpin' beat the habit is a tickin' time bomb far worse than anythin' Al-qaeda could invent.  

N'

nasking

October 31. 2011 06:00 PM

Patricia WA

Something else struck me watching Question Time.  The LOTO and his mates were so stuck with their pre-scripted questions;   particularly re very public forewarnings from State Liberal premiers and himself, the attempts to have 'abortive' third hand calls registered to the PM via other ministers, and the repeated but vaguely dire warnings from Joyce to Minister Albanese about more and more 'groundings' and 'inconvenience to the public' etc.  It all smacked to me of an elaborate sort of entrapment plan, organised pre-CHOGM, with follow-up Gotcha questions scripted, rehearsed, and so thoroughly internalised that they still got trotted out today7 when it was obvious none of it had all fallen flat, backfired even.

I wonder what those Chinese gentlemen made of it all in the Visitors Gallery.   I wonder if they found it nearly as enthralling and amusing as I did.  The Prime Minister is clearly our No. 1 politician in terms of intellect and debating skills.   Her drive and resilience are remarkable in view of all that's she recently done on behalf of the nation.

Patricia WA

October 31. 2011 06:01 PM

Patricia WA

Something else struck me watching Question Time.  The LOTO and his mates were so stuck with their pre-scripted questions;   particularly re very public forewarnings from State Liberal premiers and himself, the attempts to have 'abortive' third hand calls registered to the PM via other ministers, and the repeated but vaguely dire warnings from Joyce to Minister Albanese about more and more 'groundings' and 'inconvenience to the public' etc.  It all smacked to me of an elaborate sort of entrapment plan, organised pre-CHOGM, with follow-up Gotcha questions scripted, rehearsed, and so thoroughly internalised that they still got trotted out today7 when it was obvious none of it had all fallen flat, backfired even.

I wonder what those Chinese gentlemen made of it all in the Visitors Gallery.   I wonder if they found it nearly as enthralling and amusing as I did.  The Prime Minister is clearly our No. 1 politician in terms of intellect and debating skills.   Her drive and resilience are remarkable in view of all that's she recently done on behalf of the nation.

Patricia WA

October 31. 2011 06:01 PM

jane

I can't decide whether Tom of Melbourne is a Right Wing Industrial Warrior, hell bent on advocating government by Ministerial fiat and business practice by dictat, or a Stalinist Socialist Big Government Interventionist?

   Or a Right Wing Troll simply parroting the Opposition's talking points without understanding the law behind them.


Or just a complete wanker, FS?

Patricia I came in through the archives, too. Thanks for the tip.

The welfare of animals transported by air is of great concern, I trust the ghastly Mr Joyce would have thought of them and made sure that vets were on standby. Better still to arrange accommodation at reputable kennels.

jane

October 31. 2011 06:05 PM

Ad astra reply

TT
I sent my submission to the Media Inquiry this afternoon.  Thanks for the reminder.

Ad astra reply

October 31. 2011 06:20 PM

Patricia WA

jane and AA - nice to be here with you!

Norman K's lead to the Drysdale article is a gem.  I loved this bit about her handling of the Qantas dispute.

Her actions, words and demeanour were that of a Leader on top of her job.

I'm starting a collection of these!  And their source!

Patricia WA

October 31. 2011 06:35 PM

Per Ardua

Laura Tingle has had enough.

www.afr.com/.../pm_not_taking_any_prisoners_waPlXeWQYEe7wwjlPvkr0N

Per Ardua

October 31. 2011 06:51 PM

Ad astra reply

Patricia WA
Thank you for the warning about TPS front page being inaccessible again.  Web Monkey has fixed it, and has taken preventive action; hopefully it will not return.

The problem is that while the page is open on a computer, it works normally, but when one tries to open TPS de novo access is not possible.

Ad astra reply

October 31. 2011 06:57 PM

Ad astra reply

Per Ardua
Thank you.  What a balanced piece by Laura Tingle!

I think she sees what many of us are seeing - Julia Gillard growing in stature and authority by the day.

Ad astra reply

October 31. 2011 07:02 PM

Feral Skeleton

Ad Astra,
         I will leave the decision up to you, as I do not wish to be seen as being dictatorial and heavy-handed by deciding to remove it myself, however, I would appreciate it if you could adjudicate on the appropriateness of the most recent comment by 'Sir Ian Crisp', the most recent and extremely personally-hurtful in a series which has become more and more so over the last few days, which suggests that I should be admitted as an Inpatient to my local area Psychiatric Clinic, Mandala, and thus whether it should be removed.

   Of course I understand that by making my request to you public here, he will no doubt in future comments seek to characterise your decision to remove it, should that be what you decide to do, as a case of playing favourites with your pet.  However, I just wanted others here to know how much those sort of comments actually hurt me, and that I requested you to do it, not that you independently decided to do it.  If that is what you do.

   I find it especially hurtful for him to say that about me because I am presently having to deal with my son's best friend just having been a patient in this very institution as a result of schizophrenic psychosis.

   I don't know who 'Sir Ian Crisp' is, but he contributes nothing to the debates here at The Political Sword, and seems to like nothing more than kicking people who he perceives to be lesser mortals than he.  Which is typical of an Imperialist I guess.

Feral Skeleton

October 31. 2011 07:42 PM

Sir Ian Crisp

J guy, my waffle is not a bad dish. I also whip up a mean lemon meringue pie.

FS, don't dish dirt and you won't have to cop it returned to you.

Sir Ian Crisp

October 31. 2011 08:03 PM

Ad astra reply

Political Sword Media Mash

Another Shanahan Classic


Another quandary trips up Canberra by Dennis Shanahan, The Australian October 31, 2011

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frgd0x-1226180911998 



Julia Gillard has been caught in yet another crisis not of her doing and with limited ability to act decisively as the economy is damaged and public confidence undermined. 

Yet again, the Prime Minister has been pitch-forked into trouble without warning, under-prepared, lacking a fallback position and ill-served by some of her colleagues. 

This government seems endlessly capable of assuming things will turn out right and not being prepared when the worst-case scenario eventuates.”

Dennis, what is this ‘limited ability’?  Julia Gillard could have ended the dispute off her own bat or asked Fair Work Australia to do so immediately.  She chose the latter in order to avoid any unforeseen legal action in a yet untested clause in the Fair Work Act that could have prolonged the dispute.  What other ‘ability’ should she have had?

Then to add to your usual theme of incompetence and unpreparedness you accuse her and her ministers of just that.  Yet today we hear of repeated contact between government ministers and the parties to the dispute and a clear understanding by the ministers of the possibilities and the possible remedies.  So Dennis you were wrong to so accuse them, wrong again.


“[i}While Gillard acted determinedly once the trigger of "damage to the national economy" had been pulled, she has been reluctant about becoming involved in a dispute that involves some of the most influential unions -- when she is weak and needs to shore up her leadership. Gillard didn't even use rhetorical pressure or moral persuasion on Qantas or the unions, while her Workplace Relations Minister, Chris Evans, government involvement. 

This reticence to even express a view came as the travelling public, Qantas shareholders and the tourism industry became increasingly frustrated and fearful of a destructive and cynical union campaign that threatened to bleed Qantas to death.”[/i]

Dennis, you attribute her unwillingness to become personally involved early in the dispute to a disinclination to upset unions that you claim she relies on for support.  Are you sure of your grounds for saying this or are you wrong again?  My impression is that she wanted Fair Work Australia to do the work it was designed to do and invoked its involvement only when the criterion of potential ‘damage to the economy’ was met.  This is how it is supposed to work, but of course unsurprisingly you preferred to infer a more sinister reason for the PM’s actions.  You didn’t surprise us.

“When Qantas responded and grounded its fleet to bring the dispute to a head and force the government to intervene it was as if it hadn't been considered as a possibility. 

The government's public responses reflected old union loyalties, uncertainty about the Fair Work Act and a failure to grasp the real financial threat.”

By now Dennis you must know you were wrong again!
 Ministers were well aware of the situation and the options.

It's true Qantas also used cynical and hardline tactics in the dispute and may have done itself harm with the travelling public with its sudden grounding, but more than two weeks ago Tourism Minister Martin Ferguson raised the prospect of government intervention to settle a dispute that was threatening Qantas and the tourism industry. 

Given Qantas was thinking about grounding its fleet for a while, why did no one in the government consider this a possibility without being told - just as they seemed incapable of imagining a High Court defeat on offshore processing of asylum-seekers. It's probably because the government spends too much time dealing with each crisis. Well, now there's another one.'

Again, by now you will be aware of the disparity between what Alan Joyce said he had told government ministers, and what they recount he said.  This morning he was already backing away from his insinuation that he had told ministers that grounding the fleet was imminent, to saying that he told them it was a possibility down the line if the dispute dragged on.  Yet he gave the Government only a few hours notice of what he had already determined to do.  He wanted the element of surprise and shock, so was unlikely to signal his intent.  You were working on hearsay and incorrect information, but that did not concern you since you wanted to lampoon PM Gillard again, so why worry about whether the information was correct.

I doubt that you will be embarrassed at publishing yet again a poor piece riddled with assumptions and assertions unfavourable to PM Gillard who in your book can get nothing right.

I hope you will be more careful next time, but come to think of it, I doubt it.

Ad astra reply

October 31. 2011 08:11 PM

Feral Skeleton

Sir Ian Crisp,
              That is a very feeble justification for a very cruel and hurtful insult.

   Please explain, for information purposes, where I have 'dished the dirt' in an equivalently personally and publically humiliating way to you? So that I may amend my behaviour in future and not cause you a similar amount of pain and heartache which you allude to my having caused you.

Feral Skeleton

October 31. 2011 08:34 PM

Feral Skeleton

   Must read:

   captainturtle.blogspot.com/.../me-at-rsl-agm.html

Feral Skeleton

October 31. 2011 08:36 PM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        I think you'll like this: Smile

www.thechristianleftblog.org/.../...nizations.html

  

Feral Skeleton

October 31. 2011 09:04 PM

Ad astra reply

FS
I haven't been watching what Sir Ian has been up to.  I find his offerings boring, cryptic and at times hurtful.  His reference to psychiatric care is a reflection of his strange way of thinking, not a reflection on you.  It's deleted.

Ad astra reply

October 31. 2011 09:13 PM

Ad astra reply

Sir Ian
If I see another offensive reference to FS or anyone else coming from you, I will delete it as soon as i see it. As I don't sit get all day waiting for your offerings, which I find unutterably boring, you may get some exposure before being deleted.  

I wonder at the nature of your mind that you find is suitable to make remarks that question another's mental state.  But whatever motivates you, be aware your unpleasant remarks will not be tolerated here.  Most of us would be pleased if you never appeared here again.  Your contributions consistently fail to advance the discourse here.  You are a serial pest.

Ad astra reply

October 31. 2011 09:42 PM

Sir Ian Crisp

And I suppose this 'advances the discourse'

Meh. Who needs your aprobation? You're just another sneering elitist. They're a dime a dozen these days. That's the problem.
Feral Skelton.



Will the above 'contribution' by FS be deleted as well?

FS, you do not cause me pain and heartache with your special brand of charientism. I might take this chance to repeat my warning to you: I am a strange sort of person because when provoked I strike back. So fire away FS but be prepared to get it thrown back at you. You might stop puling because it doesn’t fit your well crafted image of a progressive trained in the rough and tough ALP world.


Sir Ian Crisp

October 31. 2011 10:11 PM

Feral Skeleton

Sir Ian Crisp,
              You are not the only one who is a fighter.
Might I just state that, as a justification for the comment you made about me today here, that example quoted above is massively disproportionate in scale. Still, Conservatives are not known for fighting fair, otherwise they'd never win any of their battles. Might I also note also that the example you quote was completely decontextualised. Typical Tory tactic again.

   So you loathe the ALP and anyone who associates themselves with it publically, even though you wouldn't know them from Adam in the street. So we get that already. Now, how about an actual argument, based upon verifiable evidence? Or are you forever going to be just another Right Wing Pre-Copernican Obscurantist? Without an argument to bless themselves with?

Feral Skeleton

October 31. 2011 10:44 PM

Jason

Sir Ian,
       Gee you do angry well! I can just see it stamping your feet,rolling on the floor yelling out to your "nanny" that those "lefties" were picking on you again!
Maybe it's time to go back to a page more suited to you such as  http://www.nickjr.com.au/

Enjoy

Jason

October 31. 2011 11:07 PM

jane

FS, the Christian right. What a bunch of monsters. I just love the idiots who don't support vaccination. They should all be bundled off to a countries rife with disease without vaccinations and see how long they hold these beliefs.

Apart from that, the most striking things about these creatures is that their beliefs are so totally contrary to the teachings of Christ. He would certainly be tarred and feathered and run out of out of any churches they infest!

They and their supporters should not only have to work with people suffering diabolical diseases without vaccination, but should be made to live the lives of the poor and desperate and just for good measure be on the receiving end of their draconian ideas.

jane

November 1. 2011 12:33 AM

NormanK

TODAY'S LINKS

Bringing civility back to the parliamentary cockfight
Tony Kevin   Eureka Street

Last week, chatting with the Queen at Government House, Tony Abbott commented that in Australia, we play our politics tough.
Certainly, Abbott seems to: he remarked, testing the boundaries of how to converse with royals, that the Queen had outlasted many Australian prime ministers and might get to outlast a few more yet. The Queen replied diplomatically that minority government must present special problems.
www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=28764

USA Science in decline and fall by Peter Aldhous (3 graphics)
Resources for a Sustainable Future (from New Scientist)

New Scientist Science in America: Decline and fall.The US is the most powerful scientific nation on Earth and yet the status of science in public life has never been so low. Why?
www.350resources.org.uk/.../

Why Fair Work Australia terminated the Qantas industrial action
Shae McCrystal   The Conversation

The decision by Fair Work Australia (FWA) to terminate industrial action between Qantas and three unions has delivered a more certain future for this protracted dispute, setting a timeline for conciliation and possible arbitration.
theconversation.edu.au/why-fair-work-australia-terminated-the-qantas-industrial-action-4092

Fair Work Australia decision reveals the flaw in Qantas' strategy
David Peetz

The Fair Work Australia (FWA) decision on the Qantas industrial dispute makes it clear the action by the three unions was not enough to trigger a decision by FWA to terminate the bargaining periods.
theconversation.edu.au/fair-work-australia-decision-reveals-the-flaw-in-qantas-strategy-4091

Qantas and corporate greed
Shaun Newman   Independent Australia

The Qantas actions recently have reminded me of how the mindset of the rich and powerful and their servants within the Liberal Party and, in Queensland, the LNP think. The action of grounding a fleet of aircraft worldwide, rather than negotiating an industrial agreement with their workforce, is just the sensationalised and sometimes outrageous way these people actually think .....
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

To which victor the Qantas spoils?
Rob Burgess   Business Spectator

So the big news about the effectiveness, or otherwise, of the Fair Work Act in settling large-scale industrial relations disputes of this kind, won’t come until either the parties actually find the middle ground themselves, or have it imposed by binding arbitration.
www.businessspectator.com.au/.../Qantas-Fair-Work-Australia-decision-strikes-indust-pd20111031-N5S7M

The remorseless logic and profound disdain of Alan Joyce
Bernard Keane   Crikey

In short, Joyce’s argument that the unions’ campaign forced Qantas’s hand has been found to be false by Fair Work Australia. There was the prospect of a negotiated outcome, and the unions’ campaigns were not threatening significant damage either to wider industry or (and this appears to have been missed) to Qantas.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Essential Research: 55-45 to Coalition
William Bowe   The Poll Bludger

The latest weekly Essential Research result has the Coalition’s two-party lead steady on 55-45, although the primary votes suggest Labor would have come very close to gaining a point: their primary vote is up two to 34 per cent, their best result since June, with the Coalition down one to 47 per cent and the Greens down one to 10 per cent.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/

Assange and Bolt, False and Unsound
Andrew Elder   Politically homeless

There are threats to the balance between our liberties and our social cohesion all the time. What won't and can't help protect us from imbalance and injustice are lazy postulations, including that hidey-hole of the intellectual poser who hasn't thought carefully about whatever they claim to be particularly concerned about: the "slippery slope".
andrewelder.blogspot.com/2011_10_01_archive.html

A $400 billion investment boom, never mind the taxes
Peter Martin

Today’s Deloitte Access Investment Monitor details a record 935 investment projects planned or underway, each worth $20 million or more. The total value exceeds $894 billion, an increase of 7.5 per cent in the past three months and 16 per cent over the past year.
www.petermartin.com.au/.../...boom-never-mind.html

As Qantas totters a little bit of dinky di Aussie life-saving will fix what ails ya ...
Dorothy Parker   Loon Pond

After a ritual bashing of pilots, and of Qantas International, and of Tony Sheldon, and of the Fair Work Act, Sheehan then discovers that in a domestic context Virgin is unionised and at industrial peace with its staff while paying relatively similar rates ...
http://loonpond.blogspot.com/

Ten years on: The SIEV X tragedy and the assault on democratic rights
Socialist Equality Party (Australia)   World Socialist Web Site

Despite the almost total media blackout of the 10th anniversary of the drowning on October 19, 2001 of 353 refugees who were trying to reach Australia in an over-crowded boat, the political stench has not diminished.
www.wsws.org/articles/2011/oct2011/siev-o31.shtml

Siemens' Crystal vision
Sophie Vorrath   Climate Spectator

Just in case anyone thought Siemens wasn't committed enough to the advancement of clean technology, the German engineering and technology giant is building a monument to it in the heart of London. Officially named the "Crystal" in a ceremony last week, the £30 million structure will be built in East London as part of Siemens’ sustainable cities initiative.
www.climatespectator.com.au/.../cleantech-buzz-siemens-crystal-vision

Monday’s Experts
Dave Gaukroger   Pure Poison

Monday’s Experts,
Always know what’s best,
Always tell you what you should’ve done.
Monday’s Experts,
Always know what’s cooking,
How the game was lost and how it could’ve been won.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

Further Liberal hypocrisy on the NBN
Renai LeMay   Delimiter

It seems Liberal MPs all around Australia just can’t stop demanding that the National Broadband Network be rolled out in their area. The Federal Member for Farrer in rural NSW/Victoria, Sussan Ley, is the latest to come to the party.
delimiter.com.au/.../

NormanK

November 1. 2011 08:07 AM

psyclaw

FS (yesterday 5.23pm)

Have you heard anyone even raise the issue of s240. This allows one party to a stalling negotiation to take their frustration to FWA, where an order such as the current one would likely be given.

Why didn't Joyce just initiate FWA involvement himself? Why did he choose the shut down route? More to the point, why has no-one in the MSM explored this even as a possible action? They've been so happy to discuss the reviewable s431 which Abbott says was the way to go.

This suggests that Joyce's agenda is wider than the dispute and that he's prepared to gamble with Qantas ..... a bit like Abbott who gambles daily with the national interest in pursuit of his personal wants.

What was Joyce really after? A place in IR history like Reith? Damage to the government? Trying to "do" the specific unions slowly? Trying to be the vanguard of a wider "smash the unions" campaign? Trying to prove FWA Act won't work?

I wonder if he's actually trying to raise IR as an issue in the next election? if so, good! I doubt it's in Abbott's interests to have IR as a top issue.

Joyce appears to be one of those corporate upstart "whiz kids" of the last couple of decades ..... come in, shake the crap out of an entity for a couple of years, then move on quickly to another needy target.

psyclaw

November 1. 2011 08:20 AM

Ad astra reply

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra reply

November 1. 2011 08:42 AM

Michael

In Ancient Greece, anyone with the desire to know something of the future could visit the Delphic Oracle for a little farseeing advice.

The problem was that the Oracle always spoke in something so close to gibberish that her prognostications had to be interpreted by others... and each of those others most often came up with completely contradictory interpretations. Equally valuable, equally worthless, depending on what the visitor had come (and indeed, paid) to hear.

But, at core, the Delphic Oracle always uttered gibberish.

Now, I don't know if The Australian newspaper columnist Niki Savva's family traces back to the Greek site Delphi, but from her utterances below, I'm prepared to lay a drachma or two on the notion that they do.


Crisis puts fizz back in leadership talk

    by: Niki Savva
    From: The Australian
    November 01, 2011

WHILE Labor MPs ponder if, when and with whom to end the Gillard experiment, Tony Abbott seems determined to erase traces of her existence as Prime Minister.

If Abbott is elected, there will be little left of her prime ministership, other than its rugged existence as a minority government, the Gillard name in the history books as the first woman in the job and the Fair Work Act.

Abbott has promised to reverse the carbon tax, the Mining Resources Rent Tax, and mandatory precommitment for poker machines.

His macho approach screeches to a halt at industrial relations. He draws the line at waking the dead.

Having declared Work Choices dead, buried and cremated at the last election, and ruling out all but the most minimal changes to Labor's replacement legislation, it is definitely in Abbott's interests to see the Qantas dispute resolved under the existing legislation, while still blaming Gillard for not employing its provisions sooner.
Free trial

Abbott argues it is not the laws that are deficient, but those who administer them; and he will use the dispute and its aftermath to stave off pressure from his back bench, the wider Liberal Party and business community to stop being a wimp on industrial relations.

His prodders counter that under Work Choices it would never have reached this point. The unions are bolder, and their demands grow ever more unreasonable.

In fact, the government could have intervened earlier, at least with concerted public jawboning. Instead we had a nothing-to-see-here, folks, kind of approach in the face of the slow crippling of a vital cog in the national economy, again, the wrong way to handle a situation obviously headed for disaster.

Publicly, however, the Prime Minister, Wayne Swan, and the Invisible Industrial Relations Minister, Senator Whatshisname, stayed aloof. One who did not was the Tourism Minister, and former ACTU president, Martin Ferguson, after engineers told customers not to book with Qantas.

On the rare occasions since the dispute began in August, when the Prime Minister was asked about it, she made brief, anodyne appeals to the parties to work it out.

Calls by premiers for action were dismissed as a stunt, and as late as Friday, when Abbott interrupted her appearances on the world stage with a pesky plea for intervention, she remained determinedly passive.

She said she was relying on briefings from relevant ministers, adding: "I believe Australians expect the parties to this dispute to get it resolved and get it fixed."

Indeed they did. They also expected her, as Prime Minister, to ensure it was fixed, and before a catastrophic climax that threatens to leave Qantas damaged, perhaps irreparably.

Even the opposition industrial relations spokesman, Eric Abetz, managed to criticise both sides in a press release on Friday.

He observed that "calls by the unions to boycott Qantas have simply injected an unnecessary element into the dispute as has the Qantas executive pay increase."

The Prime Minister could have said the same, with more gusto. She could have given Alan Joyce a clip around the ears, told the unions to stop playing silly buggers and called them together. She did none of those things.

Yesterday, her claims that legal uncertainty prevented the use of Section 431 to terminate the dispute, sounded lame. If it is too dubious to be used when circumstances warrant, it should be removed or rewritten.

For once, forgo the bluster, the dismissal of legitimate questions as silly, the blame-shifting to Joyce and Qantas and the claims of victory amid smouldering wreckage.

Until this crisis, some of the fizz had gone out of the Labor leadership speculation, thanks to the Queen's visit, the CHOGM, an improvement in Labor's two-party-preferred vote, a marginal increase in Gillard's approval ratings, plus a slide in Abbott's.

The Qantas debacle, following Kevin Rudd's refusal, twice in two days, to endorse the government's policy on mandatory precommitment, are keeping it aerated.

Rudd knows, as does Abbott, that precommitment could force MPs in vulnerable NSW seats, to focus on their future and who might best secure it.

Abbott wants an early election, but he doesn't want to fight it against Rudd, so his pledge to vote against the tax does not help Rudd.

Rudd betrayed his reliance on the issue by refusing to comment on something he was once so passionate about, with the implausible excuse it was outside his portfolio responsibilities.

A simple "I support the government's policy" would have killed it off. Except he doesn't want to kill off the issue; he wants to kill off the Prime Minister.

Gillard is bound by her agreement with Tasmanian independent Andrew Wilkie to legislate for mandatory precommitment by May next year. The timing could suit Rudd.

Labor MPs have only days to decide if they want to remove Gillard, replace her with Rudd and take early advantage of his second honeymoon for an election this year. The two events must come together in a compact timeframe.

Even those who believe Rudd is the only realistic alternative agree that he cannot afford too much separation between installation and election.

They dread the prospect that a recycled Rudd would quickly remind voters why they went off him the first time.

Assuming anybody can control a leadership challenge, given all the emotions attached to it, the reluctant Ruddites are leaning towards a swap and an election early next year. Rudd could race off to the polls in March or April, before the Wilkie deadline, which would also be before the introduction of the carbon tax. That carries its own risks: does he dare go to an election asking for a mandate to introduce it while Abbott seeks a mandate to rescind it?

He could conceivably run a simultaneous plebiscite on the carbon tax, giving voters the option of voting for him and against the tax. What if it got really weird and people voted yes on the carbon tax and Abbott won election? But I digress.

If Labor MPs wait too long into next year, they run the risk the Wilkie proposal will get up, despite Abbott's opposition. Also the longer they leave it the greater the potential for other issues to be handled with trademark dexterity. It will damage them all, including Rudd, even more.

They have a lot to think about and not much time to do it in.


(By the by, the recaptcha code is 'softhd called' - "softhead called". Is that English for "Niki Savva"?)

Michael

November 1. 2011 08:46 AM

2353

psyclaw - Joyce & Clifford have gone down in Australia's IR history.  You're correct that there were plenty of other ways to address the issues without stuffing up the plans of thousands.  (In comparison, the Union campaign was delaying thousands - but at least they got to the other end.)

Qantas will not get all it wants out of this - neither will the unions.  While the institutional investors may think the lockout was a good idea - I wonder if Qantas (and Jetstar) will make it's 100th birthday.

2353

November 1. 2011 08:46 AM

Feral Skeleton

Psyclaw,
        A simple answer to your questions is, 'All of the above'. Plus, the fact that Conservatives love the Nuclear Option. If they can throw a hand grenade into the Industrial Relations tent, they will. To strangulate a metaphor, it then throws a cat among the pigeons, or in this case the IR Doves, and sees plenty of blood and fur fly. Incrementalism isn't their thing.

   However, Alan Joyce and the Board of Qantas, which is chockas with IR Warriors from the Howard/Reith era(thanks go to Socrates at 'the other place' for the breakdown):

     Socrates
Posted Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 8:01 am | Permalink

Interesting that this action was approved by the Qantas Board. Who are the Qantas Board? See them here:
www.qantas.com.au/.../en

A fairly anti-union group. Note the following about this quite narrow group:
* Leigh Clifford, AO – ex Rio Tinto director
* Alan Joyce – current CEO a mathematician
* General Peter Cosgrove, AC, MC – ex Army
* Patricia Cross – ex NAB exec & BNP director
* Richard Goodmanson – Rio Tinto director
* Garry Hounsell – Freehills Lawyers director & former Arthur Andersen exec Laughing
* Corinne Namblard – French ex BNP banker
* Paul Rayner – Boral director; ex British American Tobacco accountant
* Dr John Schubert, AO – BHP Billiton director
* James Strong, AO – ex CEO & lawyer
* Barbara Ward, AM – ex Ansett CEO and Allco director

Note the inter-connectedness of the board: all the ex Bankers worked in the same banks (NAB or BNP). The business execs directed Rio Tinto and BHPB. The IR lawyer directs Freehills, Rio’s law firm in the contract labor dispute. So half the Qantas board has been involved in former union busting attempts. This board might as well have been handpicked by John Howard.



   One can imagine that they are relishing the fight they have begun, and what with, 25 lawyers from WorkChoices-era Law firms, on the case, I can imagine they are playing to win this battle, with an eye on the future immediately after the elevation of an Abbott government(or so they think and hope), as it will lay out the parameters of how far they can go, generally, in the future.

   However, they may have bitten off more than they can chew and overplayed their hand somewhat, as they have now given the government reasonable cause to tweak the Fair Work Act, with the support of The Greens. The other Cross-Benchers, I'm not so sure about. It is in the news today that Ed Husic is going to introduce an Amendment to the Act to penalise business in the same way Unions & workers can be penalised, for Wildcat Industrial Action, such as Qantas pulled over the weekend.

   That's one thing. Another is coming out of the Transport Minister's office and is along the lines of allowing a Free Market Laughing on all routes, in and around Australia and overseas. No more government protection for Qantas, just throw them to the wolves, if that's the way they want to behave to the government that protects their routes by legislation now. Why should a government protect a company which doesn't even want to employ Australians, and doesn't want to pay Australian rates of pay to those Aussies it still does employ?

   Suffice to say, this battle will be won in court of public opinion, and so far, Qantas' efforts have been ham-fisted at best.

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 08:52 AM

Feral Skeleton

jane,
     I think those members of the Christian Right, who have more in common with Stalin's pogroms, given half a chance at getting their hands on the reigns of power, should therefore be bundled up and sent to a Siberian Gulag, a la Alexander Solzhenitsyn's 'A Day In the Life of Ivan Denisovich'. Which is approximately what they'd be happy to condemn the godless masses to without a second thought.

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 10:07 AM

Michael

I owe a deep apology to Niki Savva.

Another Greek-extraction woman, our Sophie of the Spirits, Mirabella, bella bella, has just proven Niki is 'Einstein' compared to her.

Note the headline.

www.thepunch.com.au/.../

Michael

November 1. 2011 10:10 AM

nasking

Feral,
I think it was on NBC's Meet the Press a couple of weeks ago I heard Herman Cain say the supreme court judge he respected/related to was Clarence Thomas...I wonder why? Smile

And it ain't just to do w/ skin colour:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Thomas

Here's Cain spewing hyperbole Tea Party style:

Herman Cain tells Meet the Press liberals are destroying the country

www.youtube.com/watch

I see, so contrary to what we saw over here in Australia clear as a bell, Tea party Republicans taking their economy to the brink of destruction over the "debt ceiling" debate and blocking all of Obama's job growth plans...and some big banks & corporations keepin' their mega-profits to themselves or investin' offshore instead of creatin' jobs & providin' loans to individuals & small businesses...it's really the Liberals who are destroyin' the economy.

I reckon Cain is either one of the most deceitful candidates around these days...or half of his brain shrivelled to the size of a peanut and dropped out his right ear due to over-consumption of takeaway pizzas.

Not surprising Newt Gingrich is on the way up.

N'

nasking

November 1. 2011 10:10 AM

TalkTurkey


I agree with Feral Skeleton about this personal account. Read it to the end, it shows the frightening malevolent mindless face of the kind of hateful mob being urged on by shock-jocks and the Abbortt Right.
captainturtle.blogspot.com/.../me-at-rsl-agm.html

And the Qantas Board has virtually tried on declaring War on the Government. Along with Miners, No-Carbon-Taxers, Stop-the-NBNers,
Turn-the-Boat-Arounders, the Shockjocks, the Clubbies, the God-Botherers, the Right-to-Lifers, the Burn-the-Witchers, and all the others Jason couldn't think of.

And you know what?
They got no more chance than Black Caviar in the Cup.
And she's not running.

But they are a deadly presence just the same.
The only reason they won't win is because we will.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ad astra I'm very pleased that you too fronted a submission to the Media Enquiry; it is funful to think of the Enquirers comparing your submission with my sorta eulogistic mention of you in mine. I do think I have read that they don't intend to reply to submitters, did you see that? Anyway they could only do themselves a favour, in terms of street cred with all of us, by proactively contacting you. I am sure many Swordsfolks, and I would hope simpatico bloggers everywhere, would applaud. (I would welcome a Hello from them too.)

Folks it's too late now for anybody else to front a submission, but I've prevailed on the Enquirers, via my own submission, to view this whole site, archived and current, as a sincere and proactive ongoing super-submission. So if you were to write even one little complementary note here in the next couple of days I reckon it might get noticed. And that would be good.

Because it seems to me that the Media Enquiry is potentially the very cutting edge of what we on TPS, Ad astra in particular, are working to hone all the time.

TalkTurkey

November 1. 2011 11:39 AM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
       And exactly how have 'the Liberals' destroyed America? Last time I looked all 'the Liberals' wanted was a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, so they could go out and spend it at the Capitalists' Mega Malls; an environment that hadn't been trashed and turned to slag; a few animals left behind to appreciate and not shoot for sport, and, for the Liberal Women, the ability to control their bodies themselves.

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 11:59 AM

Feral Skeleton

Michael,
        No 'Delphic Oracle' about the Niki Savva piece in The Austrollian, I'm calling BULLSHIT on it from top to bottom. I wasn't going to say anything about the 'Leadership Speculation' subject, and, actually, that is the only thing that the epitome of a female scrotum got right, the speculation IS dying off, as THERE IS NO LEADERSHIP CHALLENGE BEING MOUNTED BY KEVIN RUDD, there is no number-crunching in the corridors of power, there is no duchessing of Labor MPs in marginal seats in NSW and Queensland, especially wrt Problem Gambling/Poker Machine policy. It is all simply a Canberra Press Gallery confection by a bunch of self-interested 'journalists', and I use that term loosely. About as loose as they are being with the truth.

   Honestly, I don't know why people who support the Gillard Government give 'lying scrags' like Niki Savva, the time of day,let alone any credence wrt the destabilising propaganda she spews out via her weekly efforts to prop up the weakly-performing Opposition.

   I have it on the best authority, and, on Melbourne Cup Day, can I just say, 'Direct from the Horse's Mouth', there is no Kevin Rudd/Julia Gillard 'Leadership Challenge'. Kevin Rudd is deliriously happy being Foreign Minister. He wants to see the Problem Gambling legislation, which he set the ball rolling on, through the parliament. It has his full and fulsome support. As does the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard.

   Get it? Got it? Right. Can that be the last word about the Kevin Rudd 'Leadership Challenge'? Just ignore the Liberal Party smoke and mirrors reported in The Liberal Party Daily.

   I have gone to the heart of the government for the truth and got it. I have given it to you here. That is all you need to know. Don't believe the hype!

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 12:37 PM

jane

FS,agreed. They'd get plenty of very nasty communicable diseases in the gulag and no vaccinations. Wouldn't that be sad?

And I reckon I can think of a few more candidates. Slagabella would have to be close to top of the list.

Am I being paranoid or does Alan Joyce bear a striking resemblance to Godwin Grech and does the Qantas affair have a distinct stench of  emailgate?

This is another Liars Party-Ltd News attempt to unseat the government, without doubt. I'm sure this time they think they've covered their arses, but as they couldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery, I reckon this could bite them on the bum big time.

We have Ltd News and Joyce lying about timelines and phone calls and all the bullshit about Gillard's supposed failure to implement s431 which the Human Headline is spruiking.

All of which leads me to believe that Ltd news is providing ample evidence to the media inquiry of their duplicitous behaviour and giving Conroy and the government ample proof (as if they needed any more) that the Murdochracy is unfit to get their claws on ABC News.

Hopefully, this could be the double whammy for the government to break Rupert's stranglehold on media in this country.

I sincerely hope that the PM is sharpening her boning knife, ready for the kill!

jane

November 1. 2011 12:42 PM

Min

Apologies Nas', am just catching up..sorry to learn of your loss.  Huggs to you and S'.

Min

November 1. 2011 12:48 PM

TalkTurkey

A Little Homagenius Jingle
for Laura Tingle

Tune: Bongo Bongo Bongo (I don't wanna leave the Congo)
Andrews Sisters and Danny Kaye!!! Smile

www.google.com.au/url



Each morning the Murdoch Papers show us a bad headline
They say that Gillard is a liar and her awful Government's a-dyin'
And shockjocks on radio and even ABC TV
Holler that her downfall
Is a certainty . . .

So, Bangle Bungle Bingle, How we love you Laura Tingle,
I'm just letting you know!
Mingo Mango Mungo, You're the only one who's Gung-ho
When you let it go!
You are so Fearless! Gorgeous! Clear-eyed! Decent!
When all's said and done,
Of all Australian journalists,
You're Number One!

Return to top and repeat ad infinitum.


    

TalkTurkey

November 1. 2011 01:29 PM

2353

FS - I actually got a comment online on the Mirrabella piece that stated the article was bs (and mentioned the appauling treatment of her elderly friend as well).  I'm surprised it got past the moderation.

I read somewhere this morning that the Government is investigating an open skys policy whereby any airline that meets safety standards will be permitted to fly domestic legs (at the moment they have to be licenced).  Mmmm - Qantas or Emerates "economy" from Sydney to Melboure.  No choice really is it!  Hope it happens, Virgin Australia would cope with the change . . .

2353

November 1. 2011 01:39 PM

NormanK

Abbott sidesteps Qantas questions
AAP
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has abruptly ended a press conference after reporters quizzed him about what notice his office was given about the Qantas grounding.

**********************************

Mr Abbott accused Prime Minister Julia Gillard of "dithering" when the government could have taken matters into its own hands rather than making an application to Fair Work Australia.

But Mr Abbott would not say when his office was advised of the grounding, when quizzed by reporters in Canberra on Tuesday.


news.smh.com.au/.../...estions-20111101-1mt8x.html

NormanK

November 1. 2011 03:20 PM

Jason

Leroy
Posted Tuesday, November 1, 2011 at 3:17 pm | Permalink
geeksrulz Kinder Gentler Geek
Abbott has already signed pledge in blood to rescind Melbourne Cup winner #qt #auspol
21 seconds ago

Jason

November 1. 2011 04:06 PM

jane

Ben Eltham's's take on the Qantas affair.

newmatilda.com/.../naked-conflict-between-profits-and-wages

jane

November 1. 2011 04:19 PM

Feral Skeleton

  What did they know and when did they know it?

   afr.com/.../abbott_sidesteps_qantas_questions_Gsc0KrJPsUX6KKhcerYgpO

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 04:20 PM

Feral Skeleton

Tom of Melbourne,
                 I'd like a grovelling apology please.

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 04:21 PM

Feral Skeleton

  Just back from picking up my Winnings from the Melbourne Cup flutter I have once a year. This year, 1st and 3rd, thank you very much mug punters of Australia. Laughing

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 04:42 PM

psyclaw

An MPI currently underway in Senate: "The Gillard government's inability to govern as it lurches from crisis to crisis".

Leading the debate is of course that einstein Abetz.

What a total waste of space that mob are and what a total waste of taxpayers $s to have the Senate time wasting on such crap. Their cognitive skills range from the mundane to the inane.

Tomorrow they'll be wailing about insufficient time to analyse the Clean Energy and MRRT bills.

God help us if they ever gain the right side of the chambers.

2353
My post about Mirabella also got up, along with many others pointing out what a dickhead she is ..... and a malicious one.

psyclaw

November 1. 2011 04:45 PM

jane

Tom of Melbourne,
                 I'd like a grovelling apology please.


Good luck, FS. Didn't you know ToM never has to apologise because he's never wrong!

Congrats on the Cup collects.

This from Matthew Knott:

www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../20111101642

jane

November 1. 2011 04:58 PM

Casablanca

PatriciaWA

[government is] a task that never ends, and she [Gillard] takes it on with a proper degree of calm reason, empathy, intelligence and perspective.

Just had to repeat those words from the Alister Drysdale article at
www.businessspectator.com.au/.../Abbott-Gillard-carbon-tax-CHOGM-Qantas-China-pokie-pd20111031-N5QPB

PWA, they seem eminently suitable for your collection.

Casablanca

November 1. 2011 05:04 PM

jane

Paul Barry's guide to the Qantas dispute.

What does Qantas management want?

Qantas management wants to slash labour costs, particularly on international routes, where the airline is supposedly losing $200 million a year. It wants to do this in a number of ways. First is to set up a new offshore hub—possibly with a new premium airline—where pay rates would be lower, shifts longer and conditions more "flexible". Qantas has done this already to a degree by employing pilots for its trans-Tasman route in New Zealand and paying them one third less than in Australia. It has also done this with Jetstar flight attendants based in Thailand who face 20-hour shifts, and whose conditions have been criticised as "slave labour".


www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../20111031632;

jane

November 1. 2011 05:11 PM

Sir Ian Crisp


Sir Ian,
       Gee you do angry well! I can just see it stamping your feet,rolling on the floor yelling out to your "nanny" that those "lefties" were picking on you again!

Maybe it's time to go back to a page more suited to you such as  http://www.nickjr.com.au/

Enjoy

Jason


Sorry J guy, that site is not on my 'AA approved reading list'.

Me upset? Don't you worry your pretty little head about it. Getting into a stoush is water off a duck's back for me.

Sir Ian Crisp

November 1. 2011 05:20 PM

Feral Skeleton

In the interests of fairness and balance in the debate about what Tony Abbott knew and when did he know it about the Qantas plane grounding on Saturday, I therefore submit this from Malcolm Farr:

   www.news.com.au/.../story-e6frfq80-1226182561133

   However, being told that it has happened, and prior knowledge of the plans for it to happen, are 2 different things.

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 05:30 PM

Feral Skeleton

   Here's the latest line by way of justification for Alan Joyce's actions in not telling the government that he was going to ground the fleet(courtesy of Liberal media mouthpiece, Peter Van Onselen):

  'Joyce could not be sure the government wouldn't tell the union movement about his intentions'

(Pity I don't know how to do one of those eye-rolling emoticons).

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 05:30 PM

nasking

Many thnx Min. I'll pass yer kind words on to S'

In regard to this Qantas giant attempting to squash the unions & workers by such a drastic measure...and the Coalition opportunistically gettin' in there and tryin' to blame the government...all planned I reckon, as do many others...it has made me even more wary of right-wing parties...

My wife & I were considering voting for the LNP after our Green vote in the QLD state election...not because Premier Anna Bligh has done a bad job, in fact she has been efficient and during the floods was everything we needed in a leader...but as we are keen on a robust democracy we felt that maybe it was time for a change...and we don't mind Campbell Newman.

However, this latest attempt by the federal Coalition, who have mates in the QLD party, to crush unions & workers' rights which has damaged an important Aussie brand, stranded & inconvenienced passengers & looked like a crazy, Tea Party-style attempt to damage the economy & put the blame on Labor has put us right off any party associated w/ those freaks. We can imagine what they'd try to do to the education department, teachers & their union. Scary stuff.

So we won't be voting LNP 2nd preference now.
Tony Abbott & his loony cronies have worked w/ their corporate masters to put the fear of WorkChoices & other extreme anti-union, anti-worker measures into the hearts of many voters now.

Even my mother, a dyed in the wool conservative, was disgusted...and she thinks it was planned...and that Alan Joyce should go.

I might add, remembering from last week the immature & ocker approach of some LNP members regarding gay marriage (pretend kisses on camera etc.) is just another nail in the LNP coffin for us voting-wise.

The last thing we want is another ocker boys dominated QLD, the stupid & immature state...cowboys oneday, dickheads the next.

N'

nasking

November 1. 2011 05:40 PM

jane

FS, I think it sticks out like the proverbial that Liealot was fully briefed. The entire thing has been scripted to make Liealot look like he knows what he's doing.

However, it does appear that he knew well before the government, that Joyce was going to ground Qantas and chose to say nothing. However those masters of distortion, deception, innuendo and mendacity at Ltd News try to spin it, Liealot will not come out of this untarnished.

jane

November 1. 2011 05:46 PM

nasking

Feral,
thnx for the Abbott related link...I noticed he said he didn't hear about the proposed grounding until 4:45pm & if he'd known why would he have booked him & his family on a Qantas flight for Sunday arvo.

That's got me even more suspicious. It's just the kind of thing a crim would do in order to say "I knew nothin', check my booking"...

I just don't trust Abbott...he's always cookin' up or part of these tricky campaigns...ever since he came into politics we've seen one rotten campaign after another (remember his journo/media connections back then)...

I reckon the whole One Nation saga was partly planned by him in order to shift the Coalition further to the right...even the Tampa business reminds me of somethin' he'd come up w/ and his allies...a word in Howard's ear.

This Qantas stuff has Rodent & Mad Monk's & usual suspect media prints all over it...and Reith...and their think tanks & lawyers.

They're bad seeds. I hope investigative journos recognise the patterns...and dig dig dig until the past nigh on 2 decades of rotten roots are exposed.

N'

nasking

November 1. 2011 06:03 PM

psyclaw

I read the Telegraph today (gratus of course, in a cafe) and noticed an article about P3 by Simon Benson, "National Political editor".

A rant about info from "senior government sources" that many Minister s were very displeased by JG's handling of the Qantas issue.

I suspect this is a gee up which will fool only dimwits. The matter escalated at about 1400hrs on Saturday and was fixed by early Monday. Pretty bloody good!

The ingenuous conservo mob and allies are showing how low and insincere they can go by dogwhistling that the government should involve itself in IR disputes as a matter of routine, in spite of a multitude of previous public mantras that governments should stay out of such disputes.

psyclaw

November 1. 2011 06:05 PM

nasking

Feral,
you shoulda warned me about linking to that site exposing the ChristianRight...like enterin' a house of horrors.

Roger Ailes: The President of Fox News looks like a creature that melts at night and eats people like the blob.

the Christian right. What a bunch of monsters. I just love the idiots who don't support vaccination. They should all be bundled off to a countries rife with disease without vaccinations and see how long they hold these beliefs.

jane,
Indeed. But they'd all have their shots...just like they have brilliant healthcare...it's the suckers who vote for them who don't.

Apart from that, the most striking things about these creatures is that their beliefs are so totally contrary to the teachings of Christ. He would certainly be tarred and feathered and run out of out of any churches they infest!

jane,
Jesus wouldn't be "prosperity-driven" enuff for them. Nor bigoted enuff I imagine.

This lot just exploit religion to earn big bucks & a more than comfortable lifestyle...and to garner votes...to keep earning big bucks and that more than comfortable lifestyle.

God is a pool filled w/ gold.

N'

nasking

November 1. 2011 06:11 PM

nasking

Just a reminder to sign an important message to Communication's Minister Conroy:

Murdoch's secret ABC attack

In hours, Murdoch could secure his stranglehold on the Australian media by acquiring our public international TV news network -- and rob a struggling ABC of $223 million in funding. Communications Minister Stephen Conroy is under pressure to give control over the network to Murdoch instead of the ABC -- but together we can stop the deal.

Just last week, we called on you to help save the media inquiry from Murdoch's meddling -- and thousands of you responded. Now, we desperately need to come together again. Murdoch’s mouthpiece The Australian has been leaking details of insider support for Murdoch in a blatant attempt to force Labor into backing his bid. Conroy knows that giving the network to Murdoch would greatly increase the media mogul’s corrupting influence and hurt the ABC, and is looking for a way out.

Together, we can give Conroy the public mandate he needs to reject Murdoch’s power grab and award the contract to the ABC. Send a message to Conroy telling him that Australians don't want this dodgy deal -- sign now and then forward to everyone!


www.avaaz.org/.../?slideshow

N'

nasking

November 1. 2011 06:35 PM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        Tony Abbott has come into the parliament to say that he was informed the planes had been grounded at 4.45pm Saturday. However, no word on when he may have been told of Qantas' plan to ground the planes. Two completely different things.

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 07:21 PM

Trevor

Poor old Joe Hockey.  He really is out of his depth.  I saw him in QT today DEMANDING that the PM "tell the Australian people if she will guarantee that the banks will pass on the interest rate cut."  What a loser. Since when can a government instruct private banks where to set their interest rates?  We all may have a view on this and think the banks are bloated, rapacious leeches on society but they are business's after all. As much as Peter Costello used to stamp his foot at them, that was all he could do.   As usual Joe was fishing for a headline, don't worry about the substance.

I then later heard on the wireless that the major banks have passed on the full cut.  Then a sound grab of Joe saying the gubermant "cannot claim credit for this cut".  Well maybe not Joe but would you be saying the reverse if it had been a rise?  

Poor Joe, I think he does struggle with anything more complex than lego.  

Trevor

November 1. 2011 08:10 PM

Feral Skeleton

Trevor,
       Obviously you haven't gotten around to hearing Joek Hockey's latest line that, "This Rate Cut will only be 5 minutes of Economic Sunshine before the next rate increase!". Um, which ignores the last two years that rates have either been cut or remained on hold.

   Interest Rates will always be lower under a Labor government! Laughing

   I'm surprised they haven't thought about running the line that Interest Rates are being cut because the Gillard government has been doing such a poor job with the economy and taken all the wind out of it's sails. Wink

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 08:14 PM

2353

So Trevor, the LNP who believe in small Government have in the last week accused the Government of not intervening in the Qantas dispute early enough and now want the Government to instruct more public companies how to run their business.

Apart from fishing for a headline - how is this consistent with the Liberal Party values?

2353

November 1. 2011 08:27 PM

Patricia WA

Nasking, FS and Psyclaw - I wonder when we will get the full story on what Abbott knew and when about the 'grounding' and yes, FS, there is a difference between knowing and being involved in its planning.   Question Time was fascinating on this today and the body language as telling as the lack of any real information from Abbott.

In all the site problems being closed yesterday I did post this comment, so I'm now patting myself on the back for prescience!  It would be a nice going away prezzie for the PM if something really explosive got leaked from the Opposition or from Qantas confirming my own, yours and many others suspicions about a conspiracy.

Something else struck me watching Question Time today. (Monday)  The LOTO and his mates were so stuck with their pre-scripted questions;   particularly re very public forewarnings from State Liberal premiers and himself, the attempts to have 'abortive' third hand calls registered to the PM via other ministers, and the repeated but vaguely dire warnings from Joyce to Minister Albanese about more and more 'groundings' and 'inconvenience to the public' etc.  It all smacked to me of an elaborate sort of entrapment plan, organised pre-CHOGM, with follow-up Gotcha questions scripted, rehearsed, and so thoroughly internalised that they still got trotted out today7 when it was obvious none of it had all fallen flat, backfired even.
  

Patricia WA

November 1. 2011 08:31 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
I've been busy today upgrading my Apple devices to iCloud and sorting out the mail system.  Tomorrow I hope that I can post another piece by Hillbilly Skeleton.

I'm calling it a day.

Ad astra reply

November 1. 2011 08:35 PM

Patricia WA

Sorry, should have edited that quote of mine before copying it.

In my last sentence I intended to say that I thought they had so thoroughly learned their lines for their script on the grounding and the government's failure to act they were caught off guard when it all blew up in their faces.

Like Nasking and his mother I think the whole thing had Abbott's sticky finger prints all over it.  

Patricia WA

November 1. 2011 09:10 PM

BSA Bob

Can't resist this, Recaptcha's thinking of Sophie. It's "horrific whelpe"

BSA Bob

November 1. 2011 09:17 PM

Feral Skeleton

PatriciaWA,
            I didn't see it because when you see, 'Leigh Sales interviewing Joe Hockey on 7.30" you sort of run a mile in the other direction. However, it has been said that she found the old fire in the belly and tore him to shreds. I think she is also angry that she has asked Alan Joyce to front for an interview for the last 3 nights and he has totally piked it. So, she asked Joe Hockey her Qantas questions instead(same difference). Apparently he spilled his guts about the Opposition all knowing what Alan Joyce was planning to do, well before he did it. Which might mean Tony Abbott misled Parliament this afternoon when he updated the parliament on his foreknowledge of Qantas' plans.

   I can't say much more than that because I will wait to catch up with the interview before I make a judgement call, but, suffice to say, 'the Opposition have some big questions to answer'. Smile

Feral Skeleton

November 1. 2011 09:39 PM

BSA Bob

F.S.
I saw the Hockey interview, so bad, so very bad. All over the place, a recording or transcript will be necessary.
Alan- three strikes & he's in serious trouble with Leigh.

BSA Bob

November 1. 2011 10:02 PM

NormanK

I wouldn't be surprised if Tony Abbott didn't know about the lock-out and grounding plans. Would you trust Abbott with a secret like that given his track record of blurting things out when placed under pressure? Especially if he is trying to save his own hide - Abbott is someone with whom I would definitely not wish to share a lifeboat.

That's not to say that he wasn't told "when I tip you the nod, call on the PM to act in this dispute". People close to Abbott may have had more detail, Shadow Ministers and/or staffers otherwise why clam up today when asked about it? There is more to come on this topic because the media can now smell blood as was shown by Leigh Sales' performance tonight. All over Canberra tonight 'sources' within Coalition ranks will be feeling the full weight of journalists as they lean on them for some definitive evidence, preferably in writing or better yet a recording.

Today's press conference is further proof (if we needed it) that Abbott is not fit for high office. The Prime Minister of this country should be able to answer any question, no matter how curly, even if it is necessary to lie to get through the moment. Imagine this fool on the international stage freezing like a rabbit when asked a difficult question by a UK or US journalist. He couldn't string together an off-the-cuff comment that satisfied the inquirers but didn't implicate him in some wrong-doing. Curious to think about where that press conference may have gone if Abbott had been obliged to stay for another five minutes. He is hiding something but it remains to be seen whether it involves him directly or is just knowledge he has of others' actions.

NormanK

November 1. 2011 10:02 PM

jane

Like Nasking and his mother I think the whole thing had Abbott's sticky finger prints all over it.

Not just Liealot's paw prints, Patricia. I detect master slime ball Phone Card Reith and the Rodent's foul stench in this. I really don't think Liealot has the Machiavellian skills for this little lot.

Mind you, I reckon there's plenty here who could-AC has the subtlety and skill to weave such a plot, but he wouldn't get sprung.  

FS, this has just confirmed my paragraph above. These cretins are so useless at this stuff. Surely to god, they should have known not to let Sloppy or Barnyard know anything about it. Sloppy's too dense and Barnyard is a loose verbal cannon.

The government must be rolling on the floor in paroxysms of laughter, but once they stop pointing and laughing, I think that life will be very uncomfortable for the Liars Party.

I hope they do the buggers slowly, just the same. No mercy killings.

jane

November 1. 2011 11:02 PM

Jason

AlboMP | 2 minutes ago

Joe Hockey gives "can't recall" answer ABC 730 program to when he knew about lockout

Jason

November 2. 2011 12:32 AM

NormanK

TODAY'S LINKS

Ehrlich slams 'big Australia' policy
Video Interview - Stanford Professor Paul Ehrlich   SBS News

He said climate change is already impacting food production in a world were almost a billion people already do not have enough food and has called for world leaders to take urgent action.
www.sbs.com.au/.../SBS-interviews-Paul-Ehrlich

A cardinal mistake on climate science
Robert Manne   The Drum

Three telling opinion pieces on climate change have been published in the mainstream media in Australia in the past few days.
One was alarming. One was fascinating. And one was unusually foolish.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3611206.html

The long road to national broadband
Paul Budde   Technology Spectator

Looking back it is amazing what changes have occurred over the last 5 years. Governments are recognising the need to show leadership in the development of broadband infrastructure for the development of e-services in order to address some of their problems in the economy, environment, healthcare, education and so on.
technologyspectator.com.au/.../long-road-ubiquitous-national-broadband

Goodbye Qantas hello OneAsia
Gary Sauer-Thompson   Public Opinion

What was ignored in the blame game in the political/media hothouse was the way that the competitive pressures of the global market are impacting on Australian businesses and forcing Qantas to restructure. That means the Australian character of Qantas will be hollowed out as Qantas is turned into a low-cost Asian-based carrier.
www.sauer-thompson.com/.../goodbye-qantas.php#more

The Iron Leprechaun grounds the Flying Kangaroo
Jennifer Wilson   No Place For Sheep

As things stand today the Iron Leprechaun has temporarily triumphed, both parties have been forced to suspend industrial action and enter into couple counseling. Many times have I sworn that I will never fly Qantas again.
http://noplaceforsheep.com/

Qantas dispute no reason for rushed IR reform
Michael Janda   The Drum

When one smooths out the volatility, Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations (DEEWR) figures show industrial disputes have declined steadily and significantly since limited protected industrial action was introduced in 1993.
www.abc.net.au/.../3613164

When One Trick turns and Up becomes Down.
Ash Ghebranious   Ash's Machiavellian Bloggery

Previously unquestionable, his lack of direction is becoming a weight. For quite a while, Abbott did his best to not commit himself to policy. And for 6 months or so this year, he did not need one as the government was bleeding a thousand cuts because while it had announced direction, it too had no policy.
That was then. This is now.
ashghebranious.wordpress.com/.../

ANOTHER TWIT: LNP young buck Keegan Sard urges violence against Qantas unionists
VexNews

In one tweet, Señor Sard observed:
All unionists deserve to die. Stop messing with our travel plans for their own self-interest.
Not done there, he followed up urging acts of violence against unionists in terms that would even make an aspiring Freehills partner blush:
Passengers should start a revolt by bashing unionists! Tomorrow is bash a union thug day!!! Get back to work thugs!!!
www.vexnews.com/.../

War of NBN words: Turnbull clashes with Pesce again
Renai LeMay   Delimiter

Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has again engaged in a highly public clash of wills with technology innovator and futurist Mark Pesce, over whether Labor’s flagship National Broadband Network policy is the right way forward for Australia’s telecommunications industry.
delimiter.com.au/.../


Occupied Media: Interview With John Quiggin
Video   Plutocracy Files

Professor Quiggin and I discuss the current economic crisis as well as his preferred policies to get us out of this God-awful mess. Among other matters, we discussed criminal prosecutions (which he's against), financial transaction tax (which he's for) and how we can keep this economic system from crashing all the damn time (he doesn't know).
www.plutocracyfiles.com/.../...view-with-john.html

There’s a Harvey Norman Store near you!
Kelsey   GetUp

When GetUp members started sharing a video online that highlights how Harvey Norman is driving the destruction of Australia’s most precious forests, this is what Gerry Harvey told the media: “I’m doing my best to use recycled timber or timber from plantations… but every now and then [timber from native forests] will slip through”.
http://blog.getup.org.au/

Richo's Rudd Rant - A News Man Must Earn His Keep
Uther's Say

In recent times before the night of his rant Richo had doing his bit to keep the “Kevin Rudd will soon take the prime ministership back from Julia Gillard” News Ltd narrative stoked. He had even be able to supply the names of those doing the numbers and there was a frenzy among the news Ltd dominated media that the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard was going, going, gone!
http://utherssay.com/

Newspapers

Gillard to bore ahead on mine tax
Katherine Murphy   The Age

Leading CSIRO scientists will this morning brief parliamentarians on coal seam gas, which remains deeply contentious in regional areas, pitting farmers against the gas companies.
www.theage.com.au/.../...e-tax-20111101-1mtuu.html

Nil-all, but Labor on its revival launch pad
Lenore Taylor   SMH

That was all the opening the Prime Minister needed. Looking more confident than she has for a long time, Julia Gillard used question time to allege the Coalition had a ''traditional bias against working people'' and had ''not uttered a word of criticism against Qantas''.
www.smh.com.au/.../...unch-pad-20111101-1mty9.html

NormanK

November 2. 2011 12:59 AM

TalkTurkey

It was a helluva good day for the Guvnors and a very bad one for the Coalons . . .  

.25% rate cut! Poor Sloppy, even Abbortt will be happy about that with his $700 000 mortgage . . .(pity . . . )

But Abbortt is in a deeper deep hole now. He has blown his credit every bit. If indeed he can be shown to have known a day or so or even a few hours earlier that this was what Joyce intended, the press who have artificially kept him up will despise him as he deserves, and he's gone.

If he has known about it for days in advance, he is on very thin ice indeed. People have been put at risk over this shemozzle, it has cost business deals and convention appointments, caused all sorts of problems to families and every imaginable story, it is bloody outrageous! Oh and what if the Government hadn't got it sorted (at least for now) in such quick time, what then for those marooned in foreign parts, and what about the animals actually in transit eh? (Has anyone found an answer to that last question, if so I'd like to know?) If Abbortt knew about it all in advance he is some kind of criminal and traitor, a heartless confidence trickster of the first water. He would deserve gaol.

Does anyone not think him guilty as suspected? Will the MSM pursue him properly? Albo gave them the cue for several questions . . . pretty obvious, but Albo was making sure they got the message, because he couldn't be sure these dumb lazy journalists would think of the pertinent questions for themselves.    

So Abbortt, or Reith, maybe or maybe not both, are involved I reckon, but obviously we need proof. It is a delicious thought that the longer the media investigation runs, the more damage it will do to the Enemy, or alternatively the quicker it all comes out the longer the poison in their ranks has to work on them . . .

But the only thing is, we really don't want to destroy Abbortt too soon.

Oh #*ck, what am I saying, let's get rid of the creep asap. Smile

He's nearly done for you know. Where will that leave the Enemy, they won't know which way to go surely?! They will be split down the middle, and each side will so reject the other that they will effectively cancel each other.  Popcorn!

And *J*U*L*I*A* has her ample tail up, far far away atm. I hope she and Tim are having a great time, away from Abbortt's poisonous presence.

Jeez she done good today. Abbortt ran away. Life is Goo-ood!

TalkTurkey

November 2. 2011 01:19 AM

Casablanca

I did not see QT but in each of yesterday's interviews I thought that Abbort looked like a little boy caught out in a very big deception. His head nodded as much as it did in the infamous Riley interview, his speech was peppered with more than the usual number of 'ahs' and he cut short interviews when the going got tough.

Casablanca

November 2. 2011 01:21 AM

jane

TT, the msm will try to put a positive spin on Liealot's duplicity , but it will be nigh on impossible. It illustrate  s perfectly his empty rhetoric, his destructiveness, duplicitous behaviour and complete lack of concern for the welfare of Australian businesses, the economy and reputation of this country, the tens of thousands of passengers stranded around the globe, and a callous disregard for animals on board grounded planes.

If he's not toast he will be. But I want to see him linger on haemorrhaging votes and his tilt at the PMship. Julia deserves the chance to do him slowly.  

jane

November 2. 2011 07:40 AM

Michael

This is the transcript of last night's interview of Joe "Can't Recall" Hockey by Leigh Sales on 7:30.

I don't know whether this man thinks a trap hasn't been made big enough to hold him (which he might be right about), or he simply whistles along gaily through life with no idea ("can't recall") what he just said actually means/confirms/implies.


LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: To discuss Qantas and also today's interest rate cut I was joined a short time ago from Canberra by the Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey.

Joe Hockey, I'll come to Qantas related issues in a moment but firstly on today's RBA cut: you asked in question time today if the Prime Minister would guarantee that the banks have passed on the cuts in full. Is increased Government regulation of banks now Coalition policy?

JOE HOCKEY, SHADOW TREASURER: No, it isn't, but you can use various levers - as I've talked about in the past - to encourage the banks to deliver the cuts through and full. For example, at the suggestion of the Coalition, the Government introduced legislation for covered bonds which makes funding cheaper for the banks and you do a good favour for the banks, the banks should do a good favour for their customers.

LEIGH SALES: I can all but guarantee if the Prime Minister started interfering in any sort of private bank business you would be screaming blue murder.

JOE HOCKEY: That's right ,and that's why you ask the Prime Minister whether she can do that. Wayne Swan has been backgrounding the media for the last 24 hours that he has been ringing around the banks putting pressure on them to deliver a full rate cut if the RBA moved today. So he's raised the stakes. I responded.

LEIGH SALES: So, how come when interest rates go down the Government never gets credit, but when they go up it's always the Government's fault?

JOE HOCKEY: Well, in this situation, interest rates have come down - as the Reserve Bank said in its statement - because of a fall in consumer confidence, and because economic growth is not as strong as was expected. Now the Government claimed - and the Treasurer lied to the Australian people in Question Time - when he said that it's their fiscal policy that the Reserve Bank took into account, whereas in the six paragraph statement from the Reserve Bank they did not once refer to the Government's fiscal policy as a reason for them to reduce interest rates.

LEIGH SALES: That doesn't mean they didn't take it into account. The Reserve Bank of Australia would always be taking the current fiscal policy settings into account?

JOE HOCKEY: But in a statement - a that's why they have a statement - they actually said there were international factors. They also identified a fall in consumer confidence, a fall in growth outside of the resources sector as the reasons why they were reducing rates.

LEIGH SALES: Your question today implies that the Coalition wants government interference in banking. You want government intervention in the Qantas dispute, your policy on climate change is direct government action rather than a market mechanism. There seems to be mounting evidence that the Coalition is abandoning its long-held belief in the free market.

JOE HOCKEY: Not at all.

LEIGH SALES: How do you explain that you want so much government intervention in all those areas?

JOE HOCKEY: Well, it's not direct government action that may be necessary from time to time, but it can be Government simply picking up the phone and doing something: speaking to people, asking them what they need, how they can resolve issues. That's what a proactive Government does without the heavy hand of more regulation. And that's what we have done in the past, that's what we will do again.

LEIGH SALES: On the Qantas issue though you weren't just saying that's what you wanted - you wanted the Government to take some action under the Fair Work Act. That is direct government intervention.

JOE HOCKEY: It's the Government's act. They were the ones that introduced section 431, which gave the Government power to ensure the matter went to arbitration immediately.

LEIGH SALES: But it just amazes me that the Coalition is calling for the Government to intervene in the activity of a private company like Qantas?

JOE HOCKEY: No, it shouldn't be the case. Because, for example, Leigh, when I was minister for industrial relations, John Howard asked me to directly deal with the parties in Tristar to have a matter resolved, which I did. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use the regulation. The issue is that this Government has been warned by Qantas on numerous occasions that if the industrial relations environment deteriorated, then Qantas would ground the fleet. Now they've been warned on numerous occasions that Government didn't respond. Anthony Albanese is using cute language talking about a "lock-out" on 8pm on Monday. So he's more interested in the lock-out of union officials and staff on the Monday than he was in dealing with the Saturday crisis of the grounding of the Qantas fleet.

LEIGH SALES: But they dealt with the Saturday crisis, and the Qantas fleet is back in the air?

JOE HOCKEY: But 48 hours of chaos for Australian consumers, and significant damage to our international reputation as I cited in Parliament.

LEIGH SALES: And that's the Government's fault, not Qantas' fault or the unions' fault?

JOE HOCKEY: Well obviously, if the Government had been warned about a possible grounding of the fleet -which they had been, and Anthony Albanese has conceded they were warned about a possible grounding of the fleet - the Government didn't act previously, and they should have. They should have been more decisive. Now they're just playing these games.

LEIGH SALES: You don't think it sends a chill through the business community to hear a Coalition spokesman say, "The Government should have stepped in and taken a heavy hand in an industrial dispute?"

JOE HOCKEY: No.

LEIGH SALES: Well your own former industrial relations minister, Peter Reith, says that the practice of Government stepping in to those sort of dispute has been out-of-date thinking for 20 years.

JOE HOCKEY: Well, he was talking about a regulatory involvement. We have to deal with the laws that exist at the moment. The Fair Work Act exists and it had direct provisions to deal with this. But in the past, of course ministers have been involved. I was minister for industrial relations, I was involved, in trying to settle a matter that was causing unrest in a particular business or particular workers.

LEIGH SALES: What do you say to the argument that because the Coalition has no industrial relations policy, your arguments against the Government's actions in the Qantas dispute are entirely based on political calculations; that your actions aren't driven by any strongly-held IR policy principles because you don't currently have any?

JOE HOCKEY: It's just dead wrong.

LEIGH SALES: You don't have an IR policy.

JOE HOCKEY: We do - we're not changing the Fair Work Act, that's our current policy. We'll have a detailed policy before the next election.

LEIGH SALES: When did you first hear from Qantas that it was considering the option of grounding its fleet or locking out staff? That it was considering that option?

JOE HOCKEY: Well it's been saying it around Parliament House for the last few weeks. Everyone in Parliament House knew. I specifically heard they were going to undertake a lock-out and grounding on 4:45 on Saturday.

LEIGH SALES: When did you hear they were considering that option, that that was the sort of stuff that was on the table?

JOE HOCKEY: Oh, weeks ago. They've been saying it. Weeks ago. Publicly and privately, they have been saying for weeks.

LEIGH SALES: Did you hear this in a meeting with Qantas representatives?

JOE HOCKEY: They had been saying it privately and publicly around Parliament House for weeks.

LEIGH SALES: I'd like to know specifically when you heard that. Don't want you to say generally.

JOE HOCKEY: I can't recall.

LEIGH SALES: You would have heard it personally in a meeting from a Qantas representative at some time in the past few weeks?

JOE HOCKEY: Yeah, sure. As did others. Qantas have been in this building for weeks.

LEIGH SALES: Joe Hockey, thanks very much.

JOE HOCKEY: Thanks, Leigh.

Michael

November 2. 2011 08:36 AM

Ad astra reply

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra reply

November 2. 2011 08:58 AM

2353

The next few days could be interesting.

There is the smoking gun of when the LNP was told about the Qantas lockout and the ACCC is now looking at Qantas in respect to selling tickets when they couldn't deliver the service - the Board shut the airline down, nobody else did (the maximum fine apparently is $1.1million per occurance).

Hockey looked like a complete goose on 7.30.  I wonder if the LNP was expecting either another soft interview or they thought Hockey was their best performer due to his weekly spot on Sunrise.  At our place the TV was on but I was only half watching - heard Leigh Sales first question and thought it could be interesting.  The transcript doesn't do it justice, Leigh Sales had a real venom in the questioning (as in I'm going to take you down).  Hockey really didn't know what hit him.  

The item before Hockey was also interesting - in the absence of Joyce, the ABC sent some questions to him and showed the questions and responses.  Again the delivery was telling.

2353

November 2. 2011 09:36 AM

Min

Apologies for the crossposting from over at the Café..just something that I wanted to say.  Nas' you are spot-on as always.

Soo, from the SMH we have…

Senior opposition frontbencher Joe Hockey says Qantas told him in a private meeting that it was considering grounding its fleet, well before the airline took the drastic action on the weekend.

And…

He was asked on ABC TV when he had first heard from Qantas that it was considering grounding its fleet or locking out workers.

“(Qantas has) been saying it around parliament house for the last few weeks,” Mr Hockey replied.

“They’ve been saying it privately and publicly around parliament house for weeks.”

Pressed on when he first heard it himself, Mr Hockey said: “I can’t recall”.


news.smh.com.au/.../...-hockey-20111101-1mtws.html

But now the Libs and their supporters are attempting to twist it around stating that as this was common knowledge around parliament house, therefore that Julia should have known (in spite of being at CHOGM) and therefore should have taken action sooner. I think that this is basically the gist of it.




Min

November 2. 2011 09:43 AM

TalkTurkey

I love the smell of NO Abbortt in the morning

It smells like . . . Victory!

Sloppy Joe is absorbing the flak. The Coalons have their agreed line drawn at 4.45PM when they reckon they first heard about the imminent grounding. M'mmm. How investigative will the journos be? I think they're just too gutless and/or too biased to the Right. Laura and Lenore alone don't have the grunt even though they would gladly get at the truth. It needs the whole media pack baying for blood the way they are only too instantly delighted to do to the Government if there is the slightest whiff of blood there. It's so blatant! Media Enquirers, hear our plaint!

I haven't seen a single take or heard a single mention of Abbortt on ABCTV this morning. He has mouseholed. It feels yes like incipient victory, but a hollow graceless gutless ignoble default of a victory from this hollow graceless gutless ignoble default of a person.

[Yeah but where is Combet? I'd'a thought he'd be the Government's lancet, Come on Greg, watcha doin'?]



TalkTurkey

November 2. 2011 09:53 AM

Min

Talk Turkey, I should imagine that the Libs are trying to work out how to spin it..that Hockey said that a lock-out was common knowledge around parliament house, but somehow that Tony Abbott knew nothing.

Min

November 2. 2011 09:56 AM

Feral Skeleton

  It's just occurred to me, wrt to the whole 'Who knew what, when, on the Coalition side', that it is entirely believable that Tony Abbott may be telling the truth when he says he didn't find out about the grounding of Qantas' planes till 4.45pm Saturday.

   Why do I say this?

   I say it because it is exactly the tactic the Howard government used to it's benefit in so many instances when in government, eg AWB. That is, 'the leader' is kept in the dark on purpose so that he may be provided with the plausible deniability excuse. Such that, when focus turns to him as leader of the Coalition, who, logic suggests, would know everything that is going on in his party he can say with a straight face, "I knew nuffink."

   Anyway, as time passes it seems more likely that this play was co-ordinated out of Hockey's office, with Truss in on it as Shadow Transport Minister. Especially considering Olivia Wurth's intimate links with Hockey's office when in government:

   www.prdirections.com.au/speakers/olivia-wirth.php

Feral Skeleton

November 2. 2011 10:03 AM

Feral Skeleton

   I have also heard the spin on the issue that the Canberra Press Gallery are putting on the Opposition's foreknowledge of the Qantas fleet grounding, courtesy of a conversation this morning between Marius Benson and James Gruble of The Canberra Times. That is, "Well, it'll all probably blow over in a couple of days because it's just Inside the Beltway stuff at the end of the day, this 'What did the Opposition know and when did they know it."

   Which just suggests to me, in big, bold letters a mile high, that the Canberra Press Gallery have gone into Oppositiion Protection Mode and are now running interference for them. Complicit, corrupt, debased individuals that they are.

Feral Skeleton

November 2. 2011 11:04 AM

TalkTurkey

On PB at 10.16 Gusface said quoting Latika Bourke
(who by the way is earning my respect as a straight reporter of matters of fact Kiss)

"Qantas spin doctor+ PR head Olivia Worth used to work for Joe Hockey

OMG

the msm have woken up,dare i say

well done latika"

I was already wondering about Hockey's special role in all this. Something very sweaty going on here.

Still no sign at all of Abbortt.

Nor of Combet.

??? WT#?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ad astra I am happy to accept whatever you are comfortable with, but would it be improper or unwise, whatever, to publish your Media Enquiry submission to the Sword? It seems to me it must amount to a definitive crystallization of your position, and of course all Swordsfolks would delight in reading what you have had to say.

"What do you think?"  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I t'ought I heard
A Tweety Bird! Smile

TalkTurkey

November 2. 2011 11:05 AM

Trevor

Slightly off track but does anyone know if News has published the "prominent" piece re the explanations of Bolt's bile?
If they have not done this yet the 2 weeks must be getting awfully close.  

Trevor

November 2. 2011 02:47 PM

Tom of Melbourne

I notice, there is plenty of hopelessly informed option going on some blogs.

Some of it focuses on some type of conspiracy between the Liberals and Qantas. Even Reith has been regularly mentioned by a few here.

As if!!

Firstly, the IR strategy in Qantas is too sophisticated to get into the political mire. Qantas has access to the best thinking around, they don’t need to rely on a tired, pretty well useless old political warrior like Reith.

Qantas has a strategy that is overseen by former union officials, and smart ones too. People like that don’t bother to get in the ear of a bloke that hasn’t been in parliament for years, who has never been involved in an airline, and has no contemporary involvement in industrial relations.

He has nothing to add.

Secondly, a huge amount of Qantas’ revenue is derived from the masses of public servants that travel between their very important meetings with the airline, as well as all the politicians.

The government is the biggest single customer of Qantas.

I can’t see Qantas risking that by getting directly involved in all the political intrigue.

Once again, the mindless just speculate without any actual proof or knowledge.

Tom of Melbourne

November 2. 2011 03:20 PM

Gravel

Acerbic Conehead

Thank you for the wonderful laugh as I jumped on the Sword this morning.  I did like someone's suggestion though of Julia being 'Superwoman'. After watching her performance in QT the last two days, she batted the hell out of the opposition.

Nas

Commiserations to you and S' on the loss of Midnight.  You certainly have some lovely looking cats in that photo, oh and the garden ain't too bad either.

As to Qantas,  in between the wedding and the reception, I glanced at the TV and couldn't believe what I was hearing.  Over the next day or two, everyone that mentioned it was in shock that Qantas would do something like this.  I think all those involved in this outrageous behaviour will not benefit.  I too think that the opposition is in it up to their eyeballs.  

Congratulations to the Prime Minister in handling what could have turned out to be a disaster so calmly and cleanly.  I actually watched the interview with Hockey and got a shock at how determined Leigh Sales was.  It was pleasant to see that the boot was put into the other side for a change.  If only all the media would do it to both sides then we probably wouldn't have to be here to talk about the disgraceful way the media has and probably will continue to behave.

Gravel

November 2. 2011 03:47 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
I haven't had time today to keep up with comments and I'm about to drive to Melbourne, so I'll try to catch up this evening, when I hope to have something from FS to post.

Ad astra reply

November 2. 2011 04:13 PM

Michael

I don't KNOW why Greg Combet has not been seen lately, but I do know that on Monday the PM announced he would be absent from the House at Question Time (and presumably thereafter) for personal reasons.

Michael

November 2. 2011 04:46 PM

Jason

Tom,
   "Once again, the mindless just speculate without any actual proof or knowledge."

Well that's your opinion and we all know what they're like! some may be so unkind to say you are one.
As far as I know "blogs" are for opinion "news" are for news

Jason

November 2. 2011 05:06 PM

nasking

I wonder when we will get the full story on what Abbott knew and when about the 'grounding' and yes, FS, there is a difference between knowing and being involved in its planning.   Question Time was fascinating on this today and the body language as telling as the lack of any real information from Abbott.

Patricia...and Feral & jane,
I've had my suspicions about Abbott for a good long time...following closely his dance w/ One Nation I felt there was a games people play aspect to it...

and don't ya think it's interesting that after all the bruising from Abbott & his lot that Pauline Hanson shows up to protests that Abbott speaks at...and Abbott has no probs goin' on David Oldfield's radio show & even puts the transcripts on the Lib site:

www.liberal.org.au/.../...with-David-Oldfield.aspx

There is somethin' so BS about Abbott...and his battle w/ One Nation...pretty odd that Oldfield worked outa his office prior to the launch of One Nation.

And doesn't Abbott have an obsession w/ asylum seekers?...not unlike the Howard govt durin' the Tampa period.

Somethin' stinks...and it has Abbott the pugilist's name all over it. And yes, I don't reckon he's a lone fox.

As for Hockey last night, I reckon he was tryin' to dob on Abbott by mentionin' Alan Joyce's constant visits to parliament house...but wanted to make it sound vague and spoken under duress so he could spin it if interrogated by his fellow front-benchers & the Rodent's nibblers. I imagine Hockey is sick & tired of Abbott's games & deceit...but he won't have the courage to admit it.

Abbott is takin' the Coalition down Oblivion Rapids...as some of us expected. Part of the reason I hope he remains leader of the Opposition. The fact that certain commentors show up gives you an idea that things are not goin' well for the Coalition & their media.

It's a pattern of behaviour.

It's gonna take some top investigative reporters a great deal of diggin'...but I reckon they will expose the truth behind Abbott & his relationship w/ certain One Nation characters...

and his & others in the Coalition's ties to this Qantas business.

I can remember when the initial speculations & accusations came out about the Murdoch empire's grubby relationship w/ the Metropolitan police, PIs & phone hacking...conspiracy theorists my arse...

now we hear somethin' stinks in the relationship between usual suspect media & a certain Victorian Police Minister's office & advisors/connections...surprise, surprise...NOT.


Interestingly Tony Abbott worked as a journalist in a former life.

Abbott looks worried to me. Not surprised he does crazy marathons...burning off the anxiety.

Let's call it a hunch. Based on some research.

N'

nasking

November 2. 2011 05:13 PM

nasking

If only all the media would do it to both sides then we probably wouldn't have to be here to talk about the disgraceful way the media has and probably will continue to behave.

Gravel,
there are some excellent reporters & talking heads out there...and things have improved...but I do believe that far too many were walkin' around w/ eyes wide shut...or were bein' gagged...or havin' their work chopped & diced by the gatekeepers &/or moguls.

I expect much more from them now they have competition. The same old crap just doesn't cut it.

Let's hope they get the funds, freedom & aids to do the necessary work.
---------------------------
BTW,
thnx for yer most kind words...I will pass them onto my wife.

N'

nasking

November 2. 2011 05:19 PM

nasking

Which just suggests to me, in big, bold letters a mile high, that the Canberra Press Gallery have gone into Oppositiion Protection Mode and are now running interference for them. Complicit, corrupt, debased individuals that they are.

Feral,
I agree that some are. They don't deserve to be recognised as journalists/reporters...let alone be paid. They are really propagandists...lackeys for propaganda machines.

N'

nasking

November 2. 2011 05:21 PM

jane

If the grounding threat was common knowledge for weeks around Parliament House, how come the press didn't pick up on it?

A rumour like that would be certain to have been heard and reported by the press, after all they could have spun it into a Kevin Rudd leadership challenge, surely?

The Coalons have their agreed line drawn at 4.45PM when they reckon they first heard about the imminent grounding.

But, but what about the rumours circulating around Canberra for weeks and weeks?

But FS, he must have heard all those rumours Sloppy insists were circulating day and night and everybody in the world knew about except the press, the government and Liealot. That's a lot of people that didn't hear those rumours, isn't it?

Jason, don't feed the trolls. It only encourages them. Smile

jane

November 2. 2011 05:26 PM

nasking

Hmmm...

Phone hacking: NoW warned about 'culture of illegal information access'

The legal opinion, only now made public, was prepared in June 2008 and referred to the activities of 'at least three' journalists

James Robinson and Lisa O'Carroll guardian.co.uk,
Tuesday 1 November 2011

Senior executives at News International were warned by a company lawyer in June 2008 that there was "a culture of illegal information access" at the Murdoch-owned media group involving "at least three" of its journalists.

They were also cautioned it would be "extremely damaging" to the publisher's public reputation if that information reached court as part of a legal action brought by Gordon Taylor, the chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association, whose lawyers had uncovered evidence of phone hacking at the News of the World during a legal battle with the title.


The warning is contained in a legal opinion prepared by Michael Silverleaf QC, the group's counsel, for the News of the World's legal officer, Tom Crone, on 3 June 2008 – and was made public for the first time .

It was handed over by the company's former legal advisers Farrer & Co to MPs on the culture, media and sport select committee, which is investigating phone hacking at the paper, as part of a group of documents requested by parliament. They were published on the committee website.

The documents will intensify the pressure on James Murdoch to explain his role in handling the phone-hacking scandal. They provide the most detailed picture yet of the sequence of events that led him to authorise a payment of £425,000 plus costs to a hacking victim to buy his silence. They appear to confirm that Murdoch was notified at an initial meeting with News of the World's editor Colin Myler on 24 May 2008 that "fatal" evidence had emerged showing that the paper had hacked Taylor's phone. At a subsequent meeting with Myler and Crone on 10 June 2008, Murdoch authorised the payment, totalling £700,000, to Taylor, but he has maintained that he was not made aware of evidence showing that hacking extended beyond a single "rogue reporter".

Thedocuments showed Silverleaf had warned in his opinion that there was "overwhelming evidence of the involvement of a number of senior ... journalists" in repeated attempts to access private information relating to Taylor.

News International said on Tuesday that Murdoch did not see the opinion.

The QC named Greg Miskiw, a former news editor at the paper, and Ross Hindley, a reporter, as apparently "intimately involved". A third name given by Silverleaf is redacted.

The documents will be seized on by MPs when they question James Murdoch, third in command at the parent company News Corp, next week, during his second appearance before the committee.

The committee chairman, John Whittingdale, said : "This contradicts the evidence given to us previously and we shall be asking about this when James Murdoch comes before the committee."


more here:

www.guardian.co.uk/.../phone-hacking-culture-illegal-information

No longer eyes wide shut

N'

nasking

November 2. 2011 05:33 PM

nasking

I should imagine that the Libs are trying to work out how to spin it..

Min...and Talk Turkey,
The Coalition are spinning themselves into a black hole.

They will probably meet their budget costings there. Smile

It's all so much gas in the end.

N'

nasking

November 2. 2011 05:39 PM

nasking

I did not see QT but in each of yesterday's interviews I thought that Abbort looked like a little boy caught out in a very big deception.

Casablanca,
very much so.
It's time for real pressure to be applied.

For the good of the country.

N'

nasking

November 2. 2011 05:41 PM

TalkTurkey

Did anybody see Warren Brown's cartoon on Sunday of a grinning fattish bloke with a rifle, proudly holding as a trophy a white (Qantas) kangaroo by the tail, and what do you think is written across the bloke's chest?

Qantas
Board?


Allan
Joyce?


Gillard
Government?


No.


UNIONS

Thank you Mr Brown.  

TalkTurkey

November 2. 2011 05:42 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Maybe Jason.

One here (FS) was so certain of Reith’s involvement, that she provided links! The links of course proved nothing.

So I thought I’d outline an informed rationale as to why FS’s suggestion of Reith’s involvement was just made up BS.

FS didn’t tag this as “opinion”.

Tom of Melbourne

November 2. 2011 05:48 PM

Jason

Tom,
   FS also asked for you to prove Reith wasn't involved,How is that search going since you seem to have your finger on the pulse?

Jason

November 2. 2011 05:59 PM

TalkTurkey

Jane wrote
"Jason, don't feed the trolls. It only encourages them."

Actually Jane, I thought that ToM's contribution was quite helpful. Insightful, cogent, well argued and researched, with a pithy earthiness that we might do well to attempt to emulate in our own writings here.





*BWAHAHAHAHAAAAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!*
               Smile

           FUN WITH TROLLS

TalkTurkey

November 2. 2011 06:18 PM

Trevor

Nasking

You may want to check this out:

www.crikey.com.au/.../

Margaret Simons at Crikey has a breaking story re Paul Whitaker when at the oz using leaked AFP information as a bargaining tool against the commissioner.  It could have a bit to run as the The Age are also involved.

The local arm of News are finding it harder and harder to claim they did not have similar ethics to NOTW.

Trevor

November 2. 2011 06:35 PM

Miglo

Hello all.

I don't get the chance to post here often but I do visit TPS regularly and enjoy reading the posts and comments. Ad Astra, you have been writing some brilliant posts and one hopes that the audience for these is wide.

I am friends with many of thr TPS contributors and I enjoy their visits to the Cafe. The statistics show that we receive many visitors from this site.

However, my purpose for today's visit is to let everyone know that this is my last day of blogging.

Many people are aware that I am a Federal Public Servant. One of the contributors at Gutter Trash has decided tobtakebit upon himself to threaten to report me for blogging my political views. I understand that preliminary enquiries have been made.

This is a serious threat that I cannot take lightly. It's a pity that a person would take great pleasure to ruin a career and the financial stability that comes with it. But it is no surprise that that person is a Gutter Trash regular.

I have always received a lot of support from TPS and I thank you for it.

Keep up the good work, but bear in mind that somebody, somewhere, will always endeavor to undermine you.

Best regards,

Migs.

Miglo

November 2. 2011 08:11 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Jason, Qantas is advised by a formidable team of ex union officials and expensive lawyers.

Perhaps you or FS could identify exactly what capability Reith would add to this.

Reith has no credibility with any of the parties, no relevant industrial relations experience, not aviation industry experience, no access to government, no political credibility.

In short he would not add intellect, capability or experience.

So why exactly would he have “his fingerprints all over this”?

Tom of Melbourne

November 2. 2011 08:18 PM

Ad astra

Migs
I’m sorry to see that you have been forced to quit blogging because of actions of a fellow blogger. Thank you for your kind remarks about me and the others who contribute here, and for your own contributions over the years to TPS and to other blog sites.  You will be missed.  We hope you will come back under another alias.

Ad astra

November 2. 2011 08:22 PM

Jason

Tom,
   "Jason, Qantas is advised by a formidable team of ex union officials and expensive lawyers."

As opposed to the unions who know nothing and can't afford to hire a legal team! I guess the water front dispute was just dumb luck with their team of legal aid lawyers.

Tom as I said show us Reith wasn't involved, and next time come back with evidence not excuses!

Jason

November 2. 2011 08:49 PM

TalkTurkey

Miglo
Once before when you reported similar persecution I was similarly dismayed that this was happening to you, but I didn't know that your livelihood as an FPS was under threat. And I am astonished that you can be intimidated in this way.

Surely you are breaking no regs in blogging, provided you are not divulging any classified info? I'm sure you know best about this situation, but it seems to me that, whatever your liabilities and the outcome might be, for this person to threaten to expose you,  amounts to, indeed is, blackmail, and must be illegal in itself. Threats and menaces, sounds pretty serious ro me. How's Gutter Trash's anonymity barrier, I wonder, if the AFP
has reason to suspect a felony by a filthy bit of flotsam? Privacy v felony, h'mmm.

I think your antagonist is on very thin ice.

Psyclaw would probably know . . .

What do you think Ad astra?

TalkTurkey

November 2. 2011 08:54 PM

Ad astra

Folks
It's been a long day, so  i'm calling it a day

Ad astra

November 2. 2011 09:41 PM

Feral Skeleton

Jason,
      Paddy Crumlin, MUA, is going to be on Lateline Business tonight. Smile

Feral Skeleton

November 2. 2011 10:05 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Jason, I don’t think it is up to me to prove he isn’t an advisor to Qantas.

It’s up to FS (or you) to justify the original claim.

Otherwise it’s just making stuff up, stuff that isn’t even justified speculation.

It’s an untruth, disingenuous, a fib.

It’s not being quite honest with people who might pop in for a read from time to time.

Tom of Melbourne

November 2. 2011 10:09 PM

Jason

FS,
  Thanks for that! I'll watch to see what he has to say.

Jason

November 2. 2011 10:26 PM

Miglo

Thanks Ad, Talk Turkey. You are decent people.

Miglo

November 2. 2011 10:48 PM

Per Ardua

Swordsters, as a long time lurker here and at CW,  may I implore you all to ignore the Troll of Melbourne. I have on occasions visited his/her regular stomping ground, GT, and found that while sometimes humorous, his and his cohorts denigration of this site and others is pretty low.  I think we are all aware he has no interest in civilised, courteous debate as is the norm here and at CW, his intention is to disrupt and destroy and I would hate to see the damage that he has wreaked on CW replicated here.

Per Ardua

November 2. 2011 11:22 PM

Jason

Tom,
   And Jesus wept, pass the rose water to hide the stench of your hypocrisy!

Jason

November 2. 2011 11:31 PM

Feral Skeleton

Per Ardua,
          ToM receives the contempt he deserves. Wrt to his latest sleight of hand, for example, at no time did I state that Peter Reith was 'an advisor to Qantas'. However, as a member of the Liberal Party, a member of John Howard's government, a former Minister of Industrial Relations, the instigator of the Patrick's Stevedoring dispute with the Unions, a friend of Leigh Clifford, Chairman of Qantas and former head of Rio Tinto, who, in concert with and with the support of, Peter Reith as Minister of Industrial Relations, led the charge to de-unionise the workforce in the Mining areas of WA, plus the fact that Mr Reith has been agitating for Tony Abbott to grow a new pair on IR, satisfactory to Mr Reith and his cohorts in the H.R.Nicholls Society, plus the fact Peter Reith was suited-up and ready to go on TV the day Qantas brought the planes down to the ground, in order to run the eerily-similar lines that seemed to emanate from all the self-interested 'commentators' in support of Qantas' need to act against it's unionised workforce, plus the evidence of Leigh Clifford's meeting in Josh Frydenburg's electorate(that would be the Josh Frydenburg who helped Howard craft WorkChoices)...well, I guess, if you were ToM, you would say that was no evidence at all. But then he would say that, wouldn't he?

   Me, I just say, where there's smoke, there's fire.

   Also, none of the grubs from Gutter Trash can scare me into submission, like they seem to have done to Migs, either. I don't have a job, a mortgage, or a reputation to lose. I've already survived the worst that the hard cases of the Right can throw at me, and live by the motto, 'What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.'

Feral Skeleton

November 3. 2011 12:14 AM

NormanK

TODAY'S LINKS

Mayne: Gunns believes pulp mill approval is inevitable — as it should be
Stephen Mayne   Crikey

While Tasmania desperately needs the pulp mill, Gunns really should be commended for embracing sustainable practices and shedding its old growth and re-growth logging practices.
www.crikey.com.au/.../#comments

Why Can't Conservatives, Be More Like Progressives
The Bannerman

What is it with conservatives, which they simply will not attempt to engage with interlocutors, support their own preferred ideological stances, or worse, explain what those stances are? More annoyingly, conservatives will adopt a quasi-moral high ground approach when questioned, belittling any attempts by those who would challenge the conservative ideology with ad hominem, which as we all know is no substitute for reason or logic.
www.waddayano.org/.../...conservatives_be_more.php

Conversations With Climate Change Denialists Pt.3
Under The Milky Way

A senior relative (SR) of mine, an unquestioning supporter of the Murdochcracy, recently told me that Governments across the world have influenced the CSIRO, and NASA (for example) to write pro-AGW papers in order to expand their control of the economy and society.
indifferencegivesyouafright.wordpress.com/2011/10/

Don't write off the Mad Katter's Tea Party
Troy Whitford   The Conversation

It would be foolish for anyone to underestimate Bob Katter’s Australia Party. Its brand of socially conservative views blended with economic and trade protectionism are not “far right” but rather proven policy ingredients that are appealing to rural and regional electorates.
theconversation.edu.au/dont-write-off-the-mad-katters-tea-party-4086

Email from Alan Joyce
Jennifer Wilson   No Place For Sheep

Dear Dr Wilson
Now that Qantas has resumed normal operations I would like to update you on what the recent decision by Fair Work Australia means for you.
http://noplaceforsheep.com/

More on Qantas
David Havyatt   Anything Goes

As accusations flow about when people were told of the Qantas lock-out it is pretty clear that Joyce was so obsessed with the security risk that he never really made it clear to the Government. Ultimately he was speaking in code.
http://davidhavyatt.blogspot.com/

Making A Many Million Dollar Man
Uther's Say

Perhaps if he was a mere $1 million salaried man he may have, having felt there was no more room to negotiate, have approached the government for assistance or action. After that had failed he may have given notice of 72 hours as unions are required to do before taking industrial action or more appropriately a week that he was going to take the action of shutting the airline down.
http://utherssay.com/

Renewable Energy
Andrew Leigh

I spoke in parliament yesterday about the government’s renewable energy legislation, and also used the chance to discuss some of the other alternatives, such as the Beyond Zero Emissions report and the Opposition’s Direct Action plan.
http://www.andrewleigh.com/blog/?p=1804#more-1804

The Oz editor bargained over lives in AFP raid
Margaret Simons   Crikey

Former editor of The Australian, Paul Whittaker, bargained with the Australian Federal Police over how many lives would be lost if the newspaper published its scoop on the Operation Neath anti-terrorism operation before raids took place, it was revealed in the Melbourne Magistrates Court today.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Conroy’s time as Comms Minister is coming to an end
Renai LeMay   Delimiter

There are very good reasons to suspect that Stephen Conroy’s reign of fire and blood as Australia’s Communications Minister is gradually coming to an end; with the nation to receive new talent in this crucial portfolio either at the next Federal Election — or even substantially before it.
delimiter.com.au/.../

Newspapers

Joyce on course to reinvent Qantas with Canberra lift
Malcolm Maiden   The Age

Senior ministers are not unanimous that Qantas over-stepped the mark on Saturday: those who believe Qantas was stymied and needed to break the deadlock are just flying under the radar.
www.theage.com.au/.../...-lift-20111102-1mvlj.html

NormanK

November 3. 2011 12:18 AM

NormanK

Per Ardua

Thanks for the heads-up.

NormanK

November 3. 2011 12:20 AM

Catching up

I think knowing what and how Mr. Abetz is involved would be more interesting.

If it is as Mr. Hockey and others have said, Qantas plans were public knowledge, why did not the Opposition raise the matter in parliament.

Why was there nothing in the media.  surely not all the media is in bed with the Opposition and Qantas.

Catching up

November 3. 2011 12:24 AM

Catching up

If TomM had written in the style he has here,  at Cafe, there would not be a problem.

I am surprised he can pen such a reasonable comment.

Catching up

November 3. 2011 12:24 AM

Catching up

If TomM had written in the style he has here,  at Cafe, there would not be a problem.

I am surprised he can pen such a reasonable comment.

Catching up

November 3. 2011 12:25 AM

Catching up

If TomM had written in the style he has here,  at Cafe, there would not be a problem.

I am surprised he can pen such a reasonable comment.

Catching up

November 3. 2011 01:22 AM

nasking

Margaret Simons at Crikey has a breaking story re Paul Whitaker when at the oz using leaked AFP information as a bargaining tool against the commissioner.  It could have a bit to run as the The Age are also involved.

Thnx for the link Trevor, mighty revealin'.

I hope we see this story on the ABC's 7:30 & Four Corners etc.

The local arm of News are finding it harder and harder to claim they did not have similar ethics to NOTW.

Indeed. As we suspected.

The Oz editor bargained over lives in AFP raid

by Margaret Simons

Wednesday, 2 November 2011

Former editor of The Australian, Paul Whittaker, bargained with the Australian Federal Police over how many lives would be lost if the newspaper published its scoop on the Operation Neath anti-terrorism operation before raids took place, it was revealed in the Melbourne Magistrates Court today.

The Commissioner of the AFP, Tony Negus, said that when he told Whittaker — now editor of the Daily Telegraph — that lives would be at risk if he published, Whittaker replied: “Well, how many lives are at risk?”

Negus said he responded that if the suspected terrorists were alerted to police attention, they “may actually go to the nearest shopping centre and decide to take action because they won’t have time to prepare properly”.

Negus said Whittaker replied: “Well, what are we talking about, one person being killed, or are we talking about a number of people being killed?”

The AFP had previously sought to suppress details of Negus’s conversation with Whittaker, but these attempts were defeated after Crikey and The Age got a lawyer into court to argue against suppression. Magistrate Peter Mealy ordered that the documents be released to the media this morning...

Yesterday’s events came on the first day of what is expected to be a long committal hearing in the prosecution of former Detective Senior Constable Simon Artz, who is accused of leaking information to The Australian’s reporter Cameron Stewart.

It brings to an end more than a year of efforts by News Limited to suppress details of the Whittaker-Negus conversation, including  Federal Court action last year to suppress an Office of Police Integrity report containing the information.

The detailed insight into how The Australian, in the words of Artz’s lawyers, held the AFP “to ransom” comes at a sensitive time, with the federal government’s media inquiry, which is inquiring into media ethical standards, soon to hold public hearings and due to report early next year...

In court, Negus agreed he regarded Whittaker’s behaviour as “reprehensible” and said he and his colleagues had been “devastated” by the leak, which they believed could jeopardise months of work.

In a later conversation with Whittaker, Negus said he had told the editor “We’re begrudgingly providing you this briefing to actually stop the thing being printed tomorrow.”

Whittaker replied: “Well, we’re begrudgingly stopping the printing.”

As a result of the conversation with Whittaker, reporter Cameron Stewart received detailed briefings on Operation Neath in return for the newspaper holding off publication.

Negus rejected suggestions that the AFP had been held to ransom, saying it was a “negotiated solution”.

Negus was also asked why the AFP had joined with The Australian in trying to keep details of the conversation suppressed. He agreed that he had been “made aware” that News Limited wanted the suppression, but rejected suggestions that he had been threatened by News Limited, or that a deal had been done.

The leak had meant that the option of delaying the raids so that more evidence could be gathered — which was being considered at the time — had been lost. All the agencies involved — including ASIO, the AFP, Victoria Police and the NSW Crimes Commisssion — had agreed the raids should happen as soon as possible because of the leak.

They took place on August 4, 2009. The Stewart scoop was published and available on the streets of Melbourne in the early hours of that morning, some hours before the raids, Negus said.

more here:

www.crikey.com.au/.../

Well done Crikey/Margaret Simons. And The Age.

The Murdoch empire pushers once again demonstrate a scoop cometh before exercising principles...and the public good.

KERCHING goes our democracy.

I would like to see a fullbore investigation into the media's relationship w/ the police across this country, including Victoria.

Only a few years ago most people in the UK wouldn't have questioned the Murdoch media & other organs' relationship w/ the police...nor known about the extent of the infiltration/infection.

Yet another top reason for an extensive media inquiry.

And why we need alternative funding streams for the likes of Crikey...and other blogs...in these wobbly times. Unlike Rupert, they weren't handed the keys on a golden platter.

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 01:32 AM

nasking

Miglo, we've had our differences, but have put them aside of late...as mature people do...for the good of our health and the blogs we support. I think you now understand the pressures I was under due to the sh*t stirrin' of another blog that seems to relish causin' trouble and pittin' people against one another for reasons we are yet to fully comprehend.

Suffice to say, don't let the troublemakers get ya down...Cafe Whispers is contributin' useful info for the blogosphere & public in general...it's oft wonderful contributions should not be distracted nor impeded by those who seem intent on destroying it & defaming the name of yers & this top blog.

I recommend you continue to blog and ignore the abuse, drama, distractions, and attention seeking antics that we have all witnessed for a number of years.

I'm sure the cyber readership is gradually waking up to the patterns of behaviour demonstrated by some.

Keep up the good work Cafe Whispers...and TPS.

The truth will out.

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 01:34 AM

nasking

it's should be its

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 01:44 AM

jane

TT, ToM's contributions are always so. roflmao. It comes from living under a bridge waiting for billy goats gruff. Like all cesspit dwellers, he is extremely jealous of billy goats gruff who live in the fresh air under clear skies.

He knows he will turn into a puddle of grease if he ever feels the sun or wind on his ghastly grey warty skin and is filled with jealous rage at the freedom loving billy goats gruff who barrack for the right team.

Instead of attempting friendly conversation with the billy goats gruff, he is determined to drag them into the same dark, dank, rodent infested cesspit he inhabits. It's the only thing that makes him happy.

So he sneaks onto the bridge under cover of moonless nights (his hideous appearance frightens the livestock) and leaves messages full of invective and lies for the billy goats gruff.

Some take notice for a while and attempt to talk to him, in turn leaving him messages on the bridge and even venturing under the bridge and shouting into the cesspit trying to get him to come out and talk to them.

He and his fellow trolls delight in disrupting their journeys and even send anonymous letters to their bosses claiming they are stealing or selling company secrets.

However, much to the troll's chagrin, the billy goats gruff realise that trying to communicate with him is a waste of their valuable time as they increasingly ignore all his pathetic attempts to disrupt their lives, leaving muddy footprints on his messages.

Eventually, the troll realises that the jig is up, packs up his stenchful belongings and goes to live in a shed on a property owned by one of his heroines, Anna Nicole Slagabella.

Unfortunately for him, she soon finds out that he is not a wealthy elderly lawyer suffering from Alzheimer's and tells him to sling his hook.

Sadly, he trudges off looking for a nice reasonably priced cesspit. He thinks about taking revenge on Slagabella, but soon realises he's no match for her foul potty mouth and that her extensive experience in slagging off and bullying anybody in her way far outweighs his meagre talents.

And he's also in significant danger from the billy goats gruff who are enraged at his treatment of one of their number and are looking to give him a good bunting for his sins.

He has to make sure that his taxpayer funded private health cover is up to date. It's risky, but if the billy goats gruff catch him, he's in for a good kicking and he'll need the cover.

He can't ring them because his mobile's out of battery as is his ipad, so he has to do a face to face in the office.

Furtively, he crosses the road to the office building, eyes darting everywhere, looking for billy goats gruff. Too late he sees that the doorman is a billy goat gruff so is the passing police constable. He's sunk.  

jane

November 3. 2011 01:57 AM

TalkTurkey

I do not feel right about just saying OOOhhh look at what happened to Miglo and letting it go at that, we need some kind of a strategy to deal with such attacks, after all Grog was subject to a similar attack from an envious irrelevant named James Masturbola, hopefully Grog has landed on his feet and Masturbola has landed on his face, but what should we do here?

The Coalons squeal about BumBolt's freedom of speech being inhibited . . . What hypocrites they are!

Oh I'd better pre-empt the argument by those who would say Oh yes but it's different because BumBolt is out there publicly where Miglo is anonymous, well the balance is about right because otoh Bolt gets paid a stinkbomb and he gets his legal fees paid for by Murdoch what's more. Miglo and Grog like the rest of us write for free. And unlike in Bolt's case, the moderators both on TPS and Cafe Whispers are a bit particular about racist sexist and otherist bigotry appearing on their publications.    

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dog have you seen this virago Senator Michaelia Cash!
Urrrghhhh!
Close to apoplectic with hatred as she asks a supplementary about border protection . . .

They are nearly exploding with frustration and rage, these slavering Right-Whingers. Just as well they're on a leash!

Penny Wong just raises her voice to a yell as needed to roll over the constant interjections by the ( * ) Coalon Senators . . .
She is one strong woman.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I feel honoured to be just a tiny part of the great amorphous team of goodwilled Australians who are daily ensuring that those hateful people will never take us back to the Rottweiler-driven society so beloved of Howard's venomous spawn.

VENCEREMOS!

NO PASARAN!    

TalkTurkey

November 3. 2011 02:11 AM

jane

TT, just saw Wong dishing out a few cutting remarks. Liars' heads pulled in, also Conroy. Liars trying to give Ludwig a serve which he backhanded right back to them.

And you're right about envious irrelevents, derailers and trolls of varying stripes, all worthy of booing and hissing.

jane

November 3. 2011 02:30 AM

nasking

Speaking of over-the-top attention-seekers:

WikiLeaks' Julian Assange Extradition Appeal Lost

LONDON -- WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange lost his appeal against extradition to Sweden to answer sex crime allegations, but said Wednesday he will now consider whether to take his protracted fight to Britain's highest court.

High Court appeal Judges John Thomas and Duncan Ousely rejected Assange's claims that it would be unfair and unlawful to send him to Scandinavia to be questioned over the alleged rape of one woman and the molestation of another in Stockholm last year. The 40-year-old has denied wrongdoing, and insists the case is politically motivated by those opposed to the work of his secret-spilling organization.


much more here:

www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...ition_n_1070959.html

I'm in two minds when it comes to Assange...I do believe that his organisation did some important work of revealing corruption, abuse & general BS under his guidance over the years...tho, the identity of some people & some security measures/info shouldn't have been revealed...this was irresponsible.

Endangering lives to get the scoop...or for vague "public empowerment" reasons is problematic, to say the least.

Furthermore, I don't think his achievements/efforts should exempt him from the justice system. It is possible tho a political, corporate motive(s) lie behind this latest judicial decision. Hopefully the truth will be unearthed during this process...it's not as tho Assange doesn't have lots of money, support & lawyers to put his case, air his voice...unlike many who support him. He is a fortunate man.

Nor should his status permit him to be hypocritical when it comes to privacy without the same kind of scrutiny & criticism he has applied to others.

But we must not tar all of Assange & Wikileaks's efforts w/ the same brush as some of his critics tend to do...plenty of positives have come from their efforts, they're like a flawed epic.

December last year I wrote a post that was highly suspicious of the motives of those who prosecuted the case against Assange:

cafewhispers.wordpress.com/.../

upon reflection, and based upon unfolding events & info revealed the past few mths I doubt I would write one so passionate now...

for one, I have been depply disappointed by the lack of Murdoch empire & big bank info...promised by Assange & Wikileaks...and have begun to wonder if he is usin' this info as bargaining chips. That's not on when you think of the original guiding principles & motivations of the organisation & its leader.

Also, the divisions that have damaged Wikileaks do seem to have a great deal w/ Assange's ego & his control freak behaviour. He should have put his pride & ambition aside for the greater good...more altruism...less seeking control & the limelight.

I do hope Julian Assange receives a fair trial...and the Swedish people need to ensure such, if he ends up there. That goes for the global media too.

But uncovering lies & deceit & corruption & exploitation of people and other species should not just be the preserve of Wikileaks & its founders.

Let's hope that the sword of truth out & participatory, fully inclusive democracy is picked up by many others...we're already seeing such w/ the growth of cyberspace...

and let it be wielded fearlessly...but w/ slighly more responsibility...and forethought.

You can't kill an idea...nor global passion.

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 09:22 AM

Tom of Melbourne

Amazing that so many people seek to spread their problems across unrelated blog sites.

Tom of Melbourne

November 3. 2011 09:27 AM

Jason

Amazing that one person seems to be the problem on so many unrelated blog sites.

Jason

November 3. 2011 09:54 AM

Sir Ian Crisp

I'm with you on this one J guy and ToM. Check out this site if you will www.amazon.com/.../0533112923

Sir Ian Crisp

November 3. 2011 10:18 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

November 3. 2011 10:46 AM

TalkTurkey

I am glad I am not Julian assange on trial before several of those who post here!

Let's get a couple of things quite straight.

I hold no warm feelings for Julian Assange beyond giving him a lot of credit for the work that I actually know he has done in the name of Truth.

More, I don't like the way he talks of *J*U*L*I*A*, he lost my feelings of warmth when he mouthed off on video on WormTongue Jones's Q&A show, and he has underlined that since.

BUT he is accused - not charged -  of 'rape' and 'sexual assault'. It is as though our disappointment with what hasn't come out makes it fair that he should be house-arrested for a year, and his assets frozen and his reputation destroyed and now that he be extradited to a hostile country on the flimsiest of allegations by a pair of women whose credibility has been officially doubted, relating to circumstances on whose details they had by their own admissions colluded, and which would not even constitute a crime in the UK or Australia, oh that's some of the flimsiness, there's more but that's enough.

So folks are OK about him being extradited from England, (having waited around in Sweden once previously last year while the women's complaints were heard and dismissed), placed on trial (hang on, he's not charged yet) for sexual misbehaviour, but why?, because he didn't live up to our hopes for Howard/Bush- skewering evidence. It's a complete non-sequitur, but it sure does the job. Saves argument eh.

Let me remind readers that that confusion was used by posters here quite vehemently to justify their support for Assange's arraignment in Sweden, when the matter first came up, and that convinced me that it was pointless to argue logically, several of you were quite judgmental of him, he was a fraud and a git on the one matter so he was fair game to be prosecuted on quite another.

None of this would be happening to him if he were not Julian Assange, and you all must know it. He is being persecuted for political reasons, on altogether unrelated accusations - not charges, remember - which were dismissed once, and which would not even be countenanced here, and I don't have to like the man to take up cudgels on his behalf (as I did at the time.) But when people want to believe ill of someone, logic is an early casualty.*

I think the several people who were so comfortable with the Swedish-(American?)pursuit of him feel that way because you have decided he is not of the Left. Well I think him not to be one of us in that sense too, but he is still entitled to justice. Perhaps if anything it makes it even more important that he be dealt with fairly.

I'll take Geoffrey Robertson and John Pilger as my authorities on the laws and the justice issues concerned. Assange's several Swordfolk detractors simply dismissed them at the time, but for me both those two command deep respect.

How much and what has it cost Assange and the world so far? I leave you to boggle. But I have the feeling that what he did have in the way of dirt on the Right has been pulled and disappeared as if it never happened. Don't forget Domscheitt's hand in all this.

Will it make you feel justified and fuzzy if Assange ends up being 'rendered' to the USA?

What about if he ends up being sentenced to death?

(Awwwww . . .  that can't happen . . . surely?)


May I remind those who have been so quick to judge Assange, of the sad case of Dominique Strauss-Kahn, now exonerated of charges, but with his career destroyed on the say-so of a now-discredited lying gold-digging trollop - he was previously tipped to lead the French Left and hopefully roll Sarkozy, but people of peremptory and judgmental attitude have sure done him in.

And he's fattish, male, not especially noble-looking, a bit old and allegedly sleazy, that'll do, he must be guilty of perversion. So we can all feel good about his destruction.  

So now the Frogs'll have another dose of Sarkozy I guess. Ideal.


It is the attitude of 'guilty until proven guilty' among posters even on this site that so astounds me, and which is so unarguable. That's why I abandoned even the attempt earlier, no point alienating people who are allies in more immediate matters, but I do not resile from my stance on Assange.

As I said I'm glad it's not me at risk, before jurists who countenance evidential non-sequiturs because of their own contrary political prejudices.
  

* Do you know the Aesop fable of the Wolf and the Lamb?

Once upon a time a Wolf was lapping at a spring on a hillside, when, looking up, what should he see but a Lamb just beginning to drink a little lower down. "There's my supper," thought he, "if only I can find some excuse to seize it." Then he called out to the Lamb, "How dare you muddle [sic!TT] the water from which I am drinking?"

"Nay, master, nay," said Lambikin; "if the water be muddy up there, I cannot be the cause of it, for it runs down from you to me."

"Well, then," said the Wolf, "why did you call me bad names this time last year?"

"That cannot be," said the Lamb; "I am only six months old."

"I don't care," snarled the Wolf; "if it was not you it was your father;" and with that he rushed upon the poor little Lamb and ate her all up. But before she died she gasped out:

"Any excuse will serve a tyrant."

J'accuse.

TalkTurkey

November 3. 2011 11:21 AM

Ad astra

FS
I have sent you an email.

Ad astra

November 3. 2011 11:32 AM

Jason


Keating's 'mace' spray at Q&A

Former prime minister Paul Keating has likened ABC TV's Q&A program to the Punch and Judy show, saying he wouldn't be seen dead on it.

Fronting a Brisbane audience last night to promote his new book, Mr Keating said Q&A sometimes had reasonable panellists but often featured a “ragtag” bunch.

Mr Keating questioned whether government ministers should even participate in the weekly current affairs-focused show, saying they sometimes shared a stage with people “of no note whatsoever”.


“I wouldn't be caught dead on it,” Mr Keating said.

“If I was the prime minister I would not let federal ministers go on that program. You just wash the government through mud every time you turn up.”

Mr Keating also had a barb for the presenter, Tony Jones.

“If you go on Tony Jones's [show] you need a hip flask of mace,” he said.

“Imagine sharing a program with him.”

Mr Keating made the lively remarks as he fronted a sold-out event at the Brisbane Powerhouse as part of his book tour.

The Labor prime minister from 1991 to 1996 said he did not agree with former federal minister Lindsay Tanner's criticism of the media for not properly covering debates about public policy.

Mr Keating, who touted the Hawke-Keating government's reforms including floating the Australian dollar and opening up the economy, insisted big public policy ideas generally gathered their own momentum.

“Those were big ideas and if you market them and tell the story properly you can cut through the static,” he said.

“I think the static rises when the volume of the idea is turned down.”

But Mr Keating expressed concern at the demands on leaders today to front numerous radio shows and media appearances each day.

The trend started with his successor, John Howard, and was continued by Kevin Rudd - the ousted Labor prime minister who won the 2007 election.

“You just did not owe them that much, but Howard did it all the time,” he said of multiple morning radio interviews.

“Howard changed the template.

“It was like the police minister appearing at the scene of every road smash.

“He was out there every day.”

During his on-stage conversation with ABC journalist Richard Fidler, Mr Keating repeated his previous calls for Australia to embrace its place in Asia and become a republic.

He said Australians must think of their nation confidently and with self-respect, “not [as] some derivative show that belongs to Washington or the House of Windsor”.

“Psychologically, Australia must be in Asia,” he said.

“We must find our security in Asia, not from Asia.”

Mr Keating also weighed in on the anti-corporate-greed Occupy Wall Street movement, which has spawned spin-offs around the world but been accused of lacking clear goals.

He said his only surprise was that such protests in the United States did not appear earlier, for example at the height of the global financial crisis in 2008.

“In the United States between 1990 and today, real wages have not increased, whereas in Australia real wages have increased by 36 per cent,” he said.

“If you were in the Democratic party in America you would hang your head in shame [at the lack of progress].”

Mr Keating fronted the Brisbane Writers Festival event to promote his new book, After Words: The Post-Prime Ministerial Speeches.



Read more: www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0111103-1mwk9.html


Jason

November 3. 2011 12:18 PM

NormanK

Sad day in the household with the sudden death of a much-loved pet.

Don't be surprised if there are no links tomorrow.

NormanK

November 3. 2011 12:37 PM

TalkTurkey

NK
Sorry for you.

Jason
Yes I had seen that, well said PJK!
WormTongue Jones I calls 'im.
As distict from but complementary to his namesake Anal.

". . . and that wormtongue Tony Jones, interrupting her in tones that show he thinks he holds sole Royal Right of Gab . . ."

From The Lass at Yarralumla, see TPS Archives Oct 12 2010


Adam Bandt
Him no fool
As Greenies go
Him pretty cool.

Anybody giving odds on *J*U*L*I*A* getting rolled
By Crispmess?
By Crispmess 2012?
Before the next election?

I'll have a bit of any of them if the odds are any good . . .

TalkTurkey

November 3. 2011 12:39 PM

Patricia WA

Dear NormanK - my heart goes out to you.  Wish I could do more than say that.   As we get older our pets seem to become as emotionally important to us again as they once were when we were children.  I'm sure TT, Nasking and others would be able to explain that to me.

Patricia WA

November 3. 2011 12:44 PM

Jason

NormanK,
       Sorry to hear about your loss, my thoughts are with you!

Jason

November 3. 2011 01:03 PM

Jaeger

Doug Cameron's "spray" against Limited News is another good one:

www.abc.net.au/.../3616902

Jaeger

November 3. 2011 01:17 PM

Ad astra reply

NormanK
Sorry to hear of your loss.  Forget the links until you feel better.

Ad astra reply

November 3. 2011 01:39 PM

Gravel

Miglo

Disappointed to hear about your not blogging anymore.  Does that also exclude you from commenting?  

NormanK

Commiserations on your loss.  I just told our dog to behave herself, I don't want her to become number three for the Political Sword.

Gravel

November 3. 2011 02:06 PM

Patricia WA

Peter Martin reports that the UN have again declared us amongst the top countries in the world to live in, almost the same result as November last year.  This time a national paper, SMH,  has published his article on it up and there are lots of good comments on it.  www.smh.com.au/.../...all-home-20111102-1mvnz.html

I've just retrospectively tweaked my 'pome' which TPS published last year, and given it a new title.

Will they believe it this time?

Good news like this is hardly ever aired.
Of anywhere to live Oz is almost best!
Last year that same UN Report declared
Norway first, but Australia beat the rest!

So hardly any one believes our personal wealth
Of all the world’s amongst the highest,
Plus education and general health.
They might think that report was biassed.

If commenting at all our media would claim
That lefties in the United Nations
Were promoting Oz with the devious aim
Of making it the top asylum seeker destination.

For people smugglers everywhere.
This will bring hordes from across the seas
Who all believe that we must share
With them, just because they’re refugees.

The Coalition line, if asked today,
Will find no cause for celebration.
Expect Abbott and his team to say
The UN plans to undermine our nation.

Of course the other line he might yet take
Could be attacking Gillard with his usual zest.
Blaming her government for even more mistakes,
Asking, “So why is Australia still only second best?”

Patricia WA

November 3. 2011 02:37 PM

Patricia WA

This is when I really want to be able to post a picture with my comment at TPS .    Never mind, you can find it here,  and Harry Jenkins has inspired me with this "Precious Petal!" description of Mr. Poos!

www.smh.com.au/.../...rliament-20111103-1mwri.html

Patricia WA

November 3. 2011 03:33 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
I'm having trouble with my Internet today, as I often do in central Melbourne.  So I'm not posting much - this message is from my iPad.

I hope it will improve this evening when the traffic lessens.

Ad astra reply

November 3. 2011 04:25 PM

Jason

Any School teachers out there?

GrogsGamut | 7 minutes ago

Ray Hadley tells a school teacher she is "talking to an adult now". No, she was talking to an arrogant wanker http://t.co/pgJ3JrkF

Jason

November 3. 2011 05:15 PM

nasking

Jason,
Ray Hadley sounds like a hot-tempered dickhead to me.

He sounds like the kind of parent who teaches their children to disrespect teachers...

I hope he takes responsibility for all those raging & overly-anxious listeners of his who will now go out & copycat his behaviour.

I feel for the educators who will have to cop crap now because of his horrific role-modelling. Reprehensible behaviour from a moral gnat.

Unfortunately, these attention-seeking missiles do little but profit at the expense of a rational, calm thinking country...dividing communities and insulting those who put an enormous amount of time into serving that community.

Hadley obviously thinks he's on the rugby playing field & can smack into some of his guests w/out any worry about the damage he's inflicting on the guests or the community.

Sad days indeed.

The best way to deal w/ this kind of attention-seeking, self-serving, obnoxious, money-crazed jerk is to avoid his show. And complain to the advertisers.

Australian radio can do better than this bully.

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 05:22 PM

Feral Skeleton

NormanK,
        You have my utmost sympathies wrt your untimely loss. I got sick of losing pets suddenly when the last 2 cats I had succumbed variously and unexpectedly, one to the road outside our house and a passing car that happened by as she crossed the road to the National Park looking for sport(naughty puss! Smile ), and the other to a tick(occupational hazards when the bush is all around the house). That is why I now have only 'virtual pets', who are the many and varied native species who inhabit my neck of the woods. Luckily, they all go elsewhewre to pass into the next world. I only have to feed them(the birds, that is), whenever the hell I feel like it too. Which is a nice by-product.

Feral Skeleton

November 3. 2011 05:26 PM

Feral Skeleton

   This is Massive Spray's take on the spiteful Blog Wars, initiated by, surprise, surpise, the trashy denizens of the gutter against our friends at Cafe Whispers:

   sprayoftheday.wordpress.com/2011/11/03/blogwars/

Feral Skeleton

November 3. 2011 05:29 PM

nasking

BTW, two weekends ago my wife (a head of dept), her parents and I (a former teacher) spent the entire Saturday working on the school garden...much appreciated by the students & staff who use it for various educational & health/nutrition purposes.

S' & I have done this on numerous occasions, often once or twice during the school holidays...and many other teachers & former teachers & their families do similar voluntary activities throughout the year.

I know plenty of parents recognise & appreciate these efforts by educators...and do not have the same scathing, verbally abusive approach as this Hadley fella.

Perhaps Hadley should join the Daily Teletripe...I reckon he'd fit in like a piranha swimming happily in Murdoch's cess pool.

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 05:34 PM

nasking

Sad day in the household with the sudden death of a much-loved pet.

Norman,
How sad. Our thoughts are w/ you on this tragic day. We can totally relate to how much you & yer family must be suffering. Please take the time to deal w/ yer pain.

Yers sincerely,
N' & S'

nasking

November 3. 2011 06:15 PM

nasking

Luckily, they all go elsewhere to pass into the next world. I only have to feed them(the birds, that is), whenever the hell I feel like it too. Which is a nice by-product.

Feral,
we also have many birds visit due to the many native species of plants we've grown the past decade. I'm thinking of getting a top camera eventually so I can capture images, and a record of the many splendid colours & varieties. It's so relaxing & stimulating to spend quality time in the garden w/ the birds & lizards & frogs.

Speaking of animals, I was disappointed to see hundreds of thousands of bbq'd snags bein' used to seduce WA families into attending the Queen's visit.

Not only was it an insult to vegetarians & vegans...as in non-inclusive...

but also a potential health hazard...particularly as kids become addicted to the salt content etc. in these things...and make it a lifelong habit, like fast food...ensuring for some they significantly increase their chance of getting colon, rectal & bowel cancers. And coronary disease.

Some may poo poo this...but having gone thru a really stressful period of waiting for my wife's results related to a colonoscopy...and reading/hearing about the heightened risk related to red meat consumption & saturated fats (and cigarettes & over-consumption of alcohol)...

and knowing that my wife's grandfather died in his 50s from bowel cancer (a big meat eater)...and her mother & cousin now showing similar (both were high consumers of meat & sat fats previously but non-smokers)...

I can't say how relieved I was when S' informed me that she rarely ate red meat as a youngun (disliked sausages etc. & I knew she was a non-smoker & drank little & consistently exercises)...

and consequently discovered that her tests results on the two small polyps they found in her colon were benign...and the doc gave her a thumbs up.

I used to be a big meat eater in my younger days, unlike S'...I loved my pork & beef sausages...steaks, burgers & ribs...roast w/ yorkshire pudding...couldn't get enuff of it...steak sandwiches w/ beetroot & pineapple here...Harvey's burgers in Canada...pizzas w/ salami...luncheon meats, rissoles, meat loaf...in Germany & Austria I craved wurst w/ mustard/senf...the UK mixed grills...every morning just about...

and at the age of 21 I returned to Australia w/ my cholesterol thru the roof...blood pressure creepin' up...

the mistake I made later was to substitute cheese for meat...and ate too many carbs...& ice cream...and crisps/corn chips...

and drank enuff to drown a city.

It really does come down to moderation...my grandpop lived to 94...he was an army fella who chewed his food about 30 times, rarely ate red meat...never fast food...primarily ate fish...and lots of veges from his garden.

Genes have alot to do w/ it too...but his vego son never needed a heart op...nor have I...but my Dad & uncle who are big red meat eaters both have bad hearts.

This is not a lecture...more about askin' politicians & others who run venues & attractions to think about the kids...the long-term health of the nation...before we go broke morally & financially...

and think about the fact that offering alternatives to red meat, including vege burgers/sausages, sauteed mushrooms etc might be an option many take up...

I know that when S' & I take a few plates of our vege delights to bbqs they get snapped up pretty fast...by the meat eaters.

How about some diversity Australia? And empathy? And forethought?

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 06:19 PM

nasking

My question of the day:

Can we afford the super-rich?

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 06:25 PM

Jason

Nasking,
       Although you wrote many words, I just find the behavior of the "shock jocks" from the PM down to be one of contempt.
Hadley like others of his ilk, find it easy sitting in the cheap seats to throw stones, but would never put their big salary's where their mouth is!

Jason

November 3. 2011 06:28 PM

nasking

Doug Cameron's "spray" against Limited News is another good one:

Jaeger,
Cameron calls it as he sees it.

I like it. I doubt we eat the same food...but I respect he gives a damn about the workers & the state of our media & democracy.

Gutsy stuff.  

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 06:38 PM

nasking

As we get older our pets seem to become as emotionally important to us again as they once were when we were children.  I'm sure TT, Nasking and others would be able to explain that to me.

Patricia,
it's lookin' in their faces...when they look up at me w/ their big eyes...blinking...trusting...or when I get down on the ground and they come over and say g'day!...show they care as much for us as we do them...

I used to think it was just about cats & dogs & sheep wanting food...or a brush...but over the years I learnt they just enjoy yer companionship sometimes...like to have a wee chat.

I really miss Midnight's big owl-like green eyes...staring at me w/ fondness...blinking every once in a while. I feel irrationally guilty that I could not save him. He trusted me so much...I feel like I let him down...he was only five...and it felt like a child had died...feels like my heart was torn from my chest...S' sobs every once in awhile. She feels the same as me.

To be honest, I just don't know how anyone can look in the eyes of a friendly animal and then kill it.

I know it makes me a hypocrite, as I require food for the cats...how I wish they'd grow meat in a lab...but I just don't get the killing bit...particularly when I see the cruelty in too many abbatoirs.

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 06:54 PM

nasking

Jason,
thnx for the Keating stuff:

“In the United States between 1990 and today, real wages have not increased, whereas in Australia real wages have increased by 36 per cent,” he said.

“If you were in the Democratic party in America you would hang your head in shame [at the lack of progress].”


Too right.

However,
I do wonder if Australia would've had the wages increase w/out Labor in those states the past decade.

The Coalition are so much like the Repugs these days I can't see those wage increases happenin'...not to that degree...particularly if Abbott takes over w/ his Tea Party/One Nation-like style...and there are Coalition in most states.

Just can't see it at all.

It's the last thing corporations like Qantas would want.

I disagree w/ Keating re: Tanner's observations. W/ the 24hr news cycle these are vastly different days...far more simple to get a message out in the small, less demanding & scrutinising & less negabore, sh*tstirrin' media market back then.

That's not to denigrate his accomplishments tho.
Highly articulate man...but even he couldn't get the message out once he became PM...once channel nine & the Murdoch empire & shock jocks had grown stronger & more machiavellian & critical & fear-mongerin'.

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 06:56 PM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
         No! We, the 99% cannot afford to carry the 1% on our shoulders by giving them big tax offsets.

   Btw, did you also think it ludicrous to hear the plum-mouthed bleatings of 'Twiggy' Forrest today trying to get us to think of him as a 'Minor Miner', on his uppers if the MRRT is forced upon his company? The bare-faced audacity of the Super Rich knows no bounds, doesn't it, when it comes to paying their fair share into the pot that we all draw government services out of, even if it only to drive upon the roads in their status symbol cars?

Feral Skeleton

November 3. 2011 07:00 PM

nasking

Adam Bandt
Him no fool
As Greenies go
Him pretty cool.


TT,
I agree.
Companies should have to give real notice if they are gonna try & screw the workers & damage the economy...including the tourist industry.

BTW, I've put so many comments up in a row because I found myself blocked from most sites today due to some web problems...these comments woulda been added thruout the day but for that.

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 07:02 PM

NormanK

Thanks everyone for your kind words.
Through a quirk of fate it has become a case of "The Queen is dead. Long Live the Queen."
We have just introduced an eight-week-old Border Collie puppy to the household.
It might seem cold but the emotional release is significant - no looking at food bowls that serve no purpose, toys not played with and so on.
The new dog will never be the old dog but that's not the point really. Within days Gemma will have worked her way into our hearts and will begin her own legend.

NormanK

November 3. 2011 07:16 PM

nasking

did you also think it ludicrous to hear the plum-mouthed bleatings of 'Twiggy' Forrest today trying to get us to think of him as a 'Minor Miner', on his uppers if the MRRT is forced upon his company?

Feral,
I just about choked I was larfin' so much.

Poor little rich boy Twiggy is such a victim...he acts like he's the only person who has achieved somethin' w/ his life & offered up jobs & money.

He's damn lucky he has experts workin' for him...and plenty of hard workin' people building his machines, loading his minerals, providin' them w/ meals, building the roads & railways his company uses...etc. etc...

Coming from an influential well-known family, having a few ideas, a ton of risk-taking/impetiousness, a bit of deviousness & lots of BS spin, an ounce of charm, an odd determination, a passion, an ability to shake hands & sell an idea, an opportunistic use of media & political allies...an ability to ignore exploitation of land & some workers...and pattern of behaviour that sees one actin' like a victim each time things look bleaker or more problematic...whilst still turnin' on the fake smile when ya know ya have gone too far or need to charm the public or pollies/investors...

does not make a super hero. A messiah of commodities. A saviour of Australia.

He's just a man. And one w/ a small violin. A lot of luck & contacts. A priveleged man.

He can be replaced if billions...even millions...are not enuff for him.

Cry me a river.
N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 07:18 PM

nasking

Make that "privileged man".

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 07:32 PM

Trevor

I think you may be too kind to Twiggy Nasking.  Sure he is risk taker, but not one who wears the downside of a risk.  Others including tax payers wear that.  Twiggy is only there for the upside and then lauds himself for being gutsy.  Ask the shareholders of Anaconda what they thought of Twiggy's risks.  They are the ones who took a big haircut on that one.  His so called philanthropic attitude to indigenous employment is motivated more by reducing tax.  

Twiggy and Gina, what a show.  You have to admire the way they can play dress ups, when they put on the high vis vests and claim they are just salt of the earth struggling workers. It is the oppressive state that is keeping them from being really successful.  I mean, what is the difference between having $7B or $9B?  What the hell are you going to do with it?  It is just a scorecard by that stage and they want to make sure they have the biggest score.  

Trevor

November 3. 2011 08:41 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I'll be posting another piece of satire from AC tomorrow and then next week a piece that FS is preparing, followed by a piece I'm writing.

I'm calling to a day now.

Ad astra

November 3. 2011 08:56 PM

Feral Skeleton

NormanK,
        Good news and hallelujah Gemma! get back on the bike preparing that pablum for the pooch. Smile

   Btw, I hope you got her from the Pound and saved her from a fate worse than death...death as a Pound Puppy. Wink

Feral Skeleton

November 3. 2011 08:57 PM

Feral Skeleton

  Just in case NormanK is still not up to the links, Andrew Elder has just posted his latest blog, and here it is:

   andrewelder.blogspot.com/.../...-plot-exposed.html

Feral Skeleton

November 3. 2011 09:46 PM

nasking

Twiggy and Gina, what a show.  You have to admire the way they can play dress ups, when they put on the high vis vests and claim they are just salt of the earth struggling workers. It is the oppressive state that is keeping them from being really successful.  I mean, what is the difference between having $7B or $9B?  What the hell are you going to do with it?  It is just a scorecard by that stage and they want to make sure they have the biggest score.  

Well said Trevor, well said.

Twiggy: "Look, my wad is bigger than your wad...of cash".

Gina: "It's all about ASS Twig...all about assets".

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 09:57 PM

nasking

BTW, thought the Hamster Wheel was brill this week...just watched a recording...had us in stitches.

That cancer-related bed scene was so bloody funny...I just about pissed myself w/ larfs...that character on the bed havin' every kind of cure dumped on him, shoved in his gob...hilarious. My wife had her first larfs of the week. Broke her depression over losin' Midnight.

The cat stuff on Qantas, thumbs up...a fave segment...

the turkey slap promo...& investigative reporter outside Crown...& the Alan Jones sequence...top stuff. And apt. Satire at its best.

Well done Hamster Wheel team...we all needed those larfs.

Takes the ABC eh?
More funding for comedy, arts, investigative reporting, drama/mystery & music...NOW.

N'  

nasking

November 3. 2011 10:02 PM

BSA Bob

Our local Channel 9 using today's Telgraph beatup to serve as dismal an example of frozen precooked journalism as you'd find.
Take a packet containing the usual ingredients, chuck it in a pan on the hotplate, stir a bit, bung a defrosted "this is a free kick for Tony Abbott..." on the side & slap it down.
I only watch the evening news to see where the the bullets are coming from, must try to wean myself off.

BSA Bob

November 3. 2011 10:03 PM

nasking

Within days Gemma will have worked her way into our hearts and will begin her own legend.

Good stuff Norman.

BTW, speakin' of ABC comedy...why can't we make a Red Dwarf type show here?

Gawd I miss that show...helped take us into a galaxy far far away from the stresses of wars & normal political economic-dominated life...and dopey celebrities & infotainment...just a whole lotta fun. I still crack up watchin' the reruns.

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 10:07 PM

Feral Skeleton

BSA Bob,
        The MSM, going down the plughole of relevancy and serious news. Laughing

Feral Skeleton

November 3. 2011 10:09 PM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
        Another Red Dwarf fan! We were such tragics we used to get up at 6.30am on a Saturday morning just to watch Robot Wars because the guy from Red Dwarf was one of the hosts. Laughing

Feral Skeleton

November 3. 2011 10:14 PM

BSA Bob

F.S.
Indeed they are. The Andrew Elder piece is pretty good.

As a large scale pussycat operator, commiserations to those who've recently had critters pass on.

BSA Bob

November 3. 2011 10:32 PM

nasking

We were such tragics

Feral,
I noticed The Big Bang Theory had robot wars. I'm presently reading a Cosmos article about the future of robots. And they can do some amazin' stuff already.

When you mentioned you gave up on live pets I got wonderin' if ya had a robot dog like in Japan. Now that's tragic. Smile

BTW, have ya seen this re: the G20?

G20 - People in, corporate sponsors out

It's unbelievable. The G20 -- the most powerful summit of world governments -- meets tomorrow to discuss the global economic crisis, and who is sponsoring the meeting? Banks and corporations!

No wonder the site of the meeting -- the French city of Cannes -- is completely locked down to any ordinary citizens, while banks and large corporate CEOs have all access passes to tell our governments what to do.

Corporations and banks have captured our governments,


http://www.avaaz.org/en/occupy_g20/?slideshow

They'll have all of us actin' like bots soon enuff. I'm not sure they haven't replaced Sarkosy & Berlusconi w/ androids.

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 10:36 PM

nasking

Our local Channel 9 using today's Telgraph beatup to serve as dismal an example of frozen precooked journalism as you'd find.

Apt description BSA Bob.

You could also say those BS distraction stories are as socially & mentally nutritious as TV dinners.

Factory produced...heat when desperate.

N'

nasking

November 3. 2011 10:38 PM

Feral Skeleton

Nasking,
         This will blow your mind!

   www.extremetech.com/.../102187-scientists-create-brain-like-massively-parallel-computer-from-molecules

Feral Skeleton

November 3. 2011 10:52 PM

D Mick Weir

Evening Swordsfolk,
I am on day release (umm night release) from checking the traps. Not sure what day it is and what has been going down as I haven't even had time to lurk, let alone comment (tho' Radio National has been keeping me sort of informed and engaged with loads of interesting stuff even @ 3 in the morning)

NormanK,
re the passing of a friend. As one door closes another opens. I am sure Gemma will open a few doors for the family.

An opening in the links department: Stephen Koukoulas (I'm an economist who has never been afraid of voicing views on economic policies and financial market trends. I have unique professional experience having worked in Treasury, was Chief Economist (Australia) at Citibank, was advisor to the Prime Minister, ...) has started a blog: http://stephenkoukoulas.blogspot.com

A good start and TheKouk is able to demystify and explain the wonkish stuff well.

In catching up with tweets I noticed this one:
The Greens et al turning a blind eye to Ppl Smuggling & deaths at sea,only to welcome ASs with open arms once they get to Oz, is no solution

Just wondering Is the difficulty for this govt with AS policy is that they have a solution in search of a problem of their own making? Hmm will have to ponder that a bit further.

Oh well now off to see if I can consume the 947 unread items in my newsreader and see if I can figure what has been happening over the last fortnight.

D Mick Weir

November 3. 2011 11:04 PM

Feral Skeleton

D Mick Weir,
            Good to see you bro'! Laughing

Feral Skeleton

November 3. 2011 11:16 PM

NormanK

BMW

Good to see you off the leash!

NormanK

November 3. 2011 11:25 PM

D Mick Weir

I gather a horse won a race and politics is still a horse race.

Apparently some kites have been flown and some planes haven't.

It seems altho' I missed heaps there wasn't anything to miss.

Oh, something important did happen.

There are rosebuds peeping out in SWMBO's garden and what a sweet scent is store. Smile

D Mick Weir

November 3. 2011 11:43 PM

D Mick Weir

This quote saus a lot:
"Politics hates a vacuum. If it isn't filled with hope, someone will fill it with fear."  Naomi Klein

I found it on an interesting article, Boats Under The Beds @ www.kingstribune.com/.../1376-boats-under-the-beds

D Mick Weir

November 3. 2011 11:46 PM

D Mick Weir

I also note that my typing and proof reading skills are still substandard try 'This quote says  a lot'

D Mick Weir

November 3. 2011 11:55 PM

TalkTurkey

Did youse all notice the ABC all day today gave a hundred free kicks to Piggy Twiggy Forrest, about how he was so There for the Little Miners, and not at all for himself, and he quoted as gospel all this stuff time after time after time on ABC24, all giving Labor the stick,  . . .

. . . Oh but then on late news they tell us quietly in one line that the crap he was quoting was from "a draft" which was not the document before the Parliament.

In short it was tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars' worth of utterly false anti-Government propaganda, on behalf of private interests, on the public broadcaster, and for which there will be no equivalence in setting the matter straight.

Thanks again ABC 24.

You deserve prosecution.

Media Enquirers, are you paying attention?

TalkTurkey

November 4. 2011 12:10 AM

NormanK

TODAY'S LINKS

Head Bangers
Mr Denmore   The Failed Estate

In this journalistic world of constant high volume, every story is Metallica. There are no dynamics. The entire media is shouting ALL the time because they're worried that if they pull back on their Tube Screamers their highly compressed copy won't be heard over all the other sources of distraction.
thefailedestate.blogspot.com/.../head-bangers.html

Exclusive*: News Ltd Plot Exposed
Andrew Elder   Politically homeless

Simon Benson is not denying reports that he will become editor of The Daily Telegraph as early as this month.
News Ltd sources behind the push for the wannabe editor to take the job that was cruelly snatched away from him .......... have confirmed he was now being advised by his closest confidants not to wait until next year but to launch a challenge as early as the second last week of November.
andrewelder.blogspot.com/.../...-plot-exposed.html

Depends on the unreasonable
David Horton   The Watermelon Blog

In both cases the response from the Left has largely been to try to avoid progressive legislation, criticise progressive groups who are natural allies, introduce conservative social and environmental policies, and make economic moves aimed at meeting all the demands of the super rich.
http://davidhortonsblog.com/

How to tell if you’re biased
Bill   Billablog

It’s a very deep question whether we judge people or parties by their words and deeds, or judge words and deeds by people or parties that say and do them.  You can get an idea by asking yourself a few questions:
the-billablog.blogspot.com/.../...oure-biased.html

How long can we live in denial?
Giles Parkinson   Climate Spectator

Barnaby Joyce was in fine form in the Senate on Monday .....
“When I think about the images from the past weekend, and now the first vision will be of flying down here on a Virgin airliner and seeing all the Qantas planes parked on the tarmac and becoming new homes for swallows, because apparently we can cool the climate but we cannot actually manage to keep planes in the air,” .....
www.climatespectator.com.au/.../how-long-can-we-live-denial

Afghanistan needs more coverage, in life and death
Greg Jericho   The Drum

The news [of slain soldiers], as it always does when you hear of real tragedy, brought everything else into focus. This is not to diminish the incredible frustration people caught up in the Qantas mess would have felt, but young soldiers dying has a way of taking precedence over all other news.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3614214.html

After Emma Jane and a reprehensible question, the pond turns to generally grumpy Paul Sheehan, common gossip and the Kardashians ...
Dorothy Parker   Loon Pond

In probably the deepest, darkest hour yet in the life of The Australian paywall, bubbly spritzig Emma Jane and her dancing prose has been hidden behind it, and the punters, already stricken after a foreigner won the Melbourne Cup, are being asked to stump up to read her sparkling burgundy insights.
http://loonpond.blogspot.com/

Greens and Reds under the bed
Rob Burgess   Business Spectator

In Coalition eyes, the Greens have nothing to do with environmental policy and everything to do with a hard-left 'social engineering' agenda. Brandis, and a string of other Coalition senators, accused the Greens of being more interested in pushing policies on asylum seekers, gay marriage, and wealth redistribution than 'the environment'.
www.businessspectator.com.au/.../Brandis-Greens-Coalition-MRRT-carbon-tax-Labor-pd20111103-N8S5H

A News Corporation without an ethical framework
David Donovan

Any claims of moral superiority by the News Corporation publications in Australia over comparable publications in Britain have been further eroded by revelations made in Victoria’s Magistrate Court yesterday.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

When The Oz muscles the AFP, that’s a story
Margaret Simons   Crikey

..... it is impossible to separate the extraordinary behaviour of News Limited editor Paul Whittaker, revealed in the Melbourne Magistrates Court yesterday without also considering the context of media power in Australia, and News Limited’s propensity to involve itself in the already devilishly murky world of police politics.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

NormanK

November 4. 2011 02:48 AM

Patricia WA

Well done, NormanK, and thank you.  A warm midnight hug from here in WA!

Patricia WA

November 4. 2011 07:54 AM

psyclaw

I've been away for a couple of days and let me say a big thanks to all TPS personnel. It is so easy to catch up on what's going on by a quick visit to TPS after being in the dark for a while.

The hypocrisy of the fool Abbott's mob is on show again....Bill Heffernan's boycott of the Senate visit by Alan Joyce. Heffernan will not participate in such "political opportunism" by the Senate.

Hellooooooo!!!!! How many public servants especially from treasury and DIMA, and others such as Proff Garnaut have been mauled by the Colonitionists in Senate Estimates over the past few years. Aw I forgot! They were "done' in the public interest .....in the search of truth!!! And their "truth" is not political oppportunism!!!!!!

Heffernan seriously needs to meet with the Colonition Confessor, Pell, for forgivness of his gross hypocrisy (he might get some free scientific advice too!)

TT
Thanks for introducing us to Piggy Forrest again. Make sure you all read the Edensor V Anaconda excerpt below, but more importantly make sure you spread that info far and wide, on every blogsite you visit.

His renewed bankrolling of an anti-MRRT campaign needs to be stopped in its track. His rank hypocrisy and lies that he is battling on for small miners needs to be exposed.

Piggy Forrest is a soul mate of the fool Abbott .....both members of "the only interest is my self interest' club.






www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/vic/VSC/2001/502.html

Supreme Court of Victoria
You are here: AustLII >> Databases >> Supreme Court of Victoria >> 2001 >> [2001] VSC 502
[Database Search] [Name Search] [Recent Decisions] [Noteup] [Download] [LawCite] [Context] [No Context] [Help]
________________________________________
  Edensor Nominees   Pty Ltd v Anaconda Nickel Ltd [2001] VSC 502 (18 December 2001)

122. In his dealings with Anaconda he had been warned not to trust Forrest. Nevertheless, he regarded Forrest as a friend whom he had known for many years. Indeed, at a time of much tension between the Gutnick interests and Anaconda in October and November 2000 Forrest reminded Gutnick of their friendship. The relevant correspondence from Forrest had all the hallmarks of cultivating trust. The extensive commercial and corporate experience and acumen of Gutnick was at odds with the acceptance by him, on his version, of Forrest's proposal on 4 September 2000 whereby Gutnick agreed to surrender control and management of Centaur to Anaconda. This he did contrary to the advice of his solicitor. When asked why he did so, Gutnick's response was brief and emphatic; it was because he trusted Forrest. Such acceptance on first blush may appear commercially foolish. It probably was. However, that is not the issue.

144. Despite being warned of the untrustworthiness of Forrest, on 4 September 2000 Gutnick trusted him and gave Forrest an important stepping stone in fulfilling the goal of the three provinces strategy, namely, control of Centaur.

145. I reject Forrest's evidence that he was not concerned about competitors gaining a foothold in Cawse. On the contrary, I am satisfied he was very conscious of the potential presence of competitors at the time including BHP, Billiton, Falconbridge and others. I am satisfied that when confronted with the Dennis memorandum and the strong opposition of Dennis to proceeding with the share sale agreement, Forrest needed to devise an interim arrangement to preserve the share sale deed and necessarily Anaconda's strategy in relation to the three provinces. In particular, Forrest wanted to quarantine Gutnick from outsiders who might interfere that strategy.

148. Gutnick was a truthful witness in all respects of his evidence. Having observed Forrest, including his physical demeanour, especially in the course of giving evidence-in-chief, I am unable to accept his version of the conversation of 4 September 2000. Forrest was an untruthful witness.

167.  ..........  Anaconda through Forrest, induced Edensor and Gutnick to adopt that assumption or expectation by making the assurances he did as to completion. The inducement in the circumstances was sufficiently clear although with minimal detail. Forrest offered the comfort that settlement would occur six months later. He gave Gutnick the further comfort of immediately paying the balance of moneys due on 4 September 2000. Forrest also gave Gutnick the comfort that the delay in settlement, the establishment of the loan and the transfer of control of Centaur were to be effected to facilitate negotiations with the U.S. bond holders. Gutnick, in turn, trusted Forrest and told him so.

169. Anaconda through Forrest knew or intended Gutnick and Edensor to act as they did in relation to the transfer of the board and management control of Centaur

176. Ultimately, I conclude that the conduct of Anaconda through Forrest on 4 September 2000 and subsequently was such that it was unconscionable deal elsewhere. Forrest wanted to preserve the transaction

190. I find that in making the representations Forrest did on 4 September 2000 together with the conduct of Anaconda thereafter, the duty of good faith implied into the share sale deed and the variation agreement was breached.

195. On analysis under the statute the principle representations were those made by Forrest on 4 September 2000. The representations were misleading and deceptive at the time of their making because he did not disclose the difficulties over due diligence or the matters revealed in the Dennis memorandum; he did not disclose that there was a risk or likelihood that Anaconda would not settle. The conduct was also misleading and deceptive as to the future intentions of Forrest and Anaconda: see Futuretronics International Pty Ltd v Gadzhis (1992) VR 217; Miba Pty Ltd and Ors v Nescor Industries Group Pty Ltd (1996) ATPR 41-534.

psyclaw

November 4. 2011 08:00 AM

psyclaw

Apologies ...something went wrong with my cut and paste of 176.

Here is the accurate version:

176. Ultimately, I conclude that the conduct of Anaconda through Forrest on 4 September 2000 and subsequently was such that it was unconscionable for Anaconda to renege on the representations made by Forrest....

psyclaw

November 4. 2011 08:05 AM

Feral Skeleton

NormanK,
        Thank you for getting our links together today. You're a champion! Smile

Feral Skeleton

November 4. 2011 08:25 AM

Michael

Bad Abbott.

www.theage.com.au/.../...urore-20111103-1mxv4.html

Abbott, of course, came to the Nazi Youth Wing reference slurring Senator's support, claiming he'd made an apology. The only one referred to in the article is one made to the 'Jewish community', not to the membership of Get Up!

So, of course, he hasn't apologised to the target of his slur at all.

Shoudabeen as PM will undoubtedly specialise in such 'apologies'. Say something about magpies, apologise to the pigeons, and you're on record as having said a sentence with the word "apologise" in it. Nothing to do with the matter at hand, but the 'PM' said he "apologised", so it must be true!

Incidentally, the unremarked greater slur is to the "Greens political movement", who by the logic of Senator Ian Macdonald's statement, he considers to be the equivalent of the entire National Socialist apparatus that Hitler and his henchmen presided over, and of which the Hitler Youth was merely a part.

No apologies forthcoming there. From either the Senator or Shouldabeen.

Michael

November 4. 2011 08:27 AM

2353

Quote DMW I gather a horse won a race and politics is still a horse race.

Apparently some kites have been flown and some planes haven't.

It seems altho' I missed heaps there wasn't anything to miss

Pretty much sums it up.  Welcome back - if only for a brief visit.

Thanks for the links this and every moring NormanK - much appreciated and I hope Gemma gives you a new leash (pun intended) on life.

2353

November 4. 2011 08:33 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Many thanks NormanK.

Ad astra

November 4. 2011 09:47 AM

debbiep



A warm hello to all, NormanK you did it again. Thanking you for the links.

debbiep

November 4. 2011 10:04 AM

Trevor

I sometimes wonder if those such as Twiggy & Gina watch their servants trying to wrest government from Labor and shake their heads.  I mean, it is one thing having useful idiots but you at least want your idiots to be coherent.  I know they assume that most of the electorate aren't watching so they don't have to make sense but sometimes the nonsense is sooo stupid it actually gets reported.  I could hears gasps in the boardrooms and the collective wails of "what are those idiots doing".  

Twiggy in the gallery yesterday watching his team perform must have been thinking, is it time to change the coach?  If he comes out today and states that he has full confidence in Tony and the team, well you know things are grim.  Ask any footy coach what it means when the chief exec feels moved to publicly state support.  

Courtesy of Crikey, here is the latest example of nonsense from Tony and Joe.  I watched QT yesterday and also thought it was another example of their pointless negativism.  Can anyone remember Peter Costello proudly describing his actions during the Asian economic crisis?  



A pair of economic clowns
November 3, 2011 – 7:22 pm, by Richard Farmer

Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey really are an embarrassment and if they mean what they say about not contributing to the International Monetary Fund then heaven help us if they are ever in a position to practice what they preach. Today in question time the pair were attacking a proper, responsible government for daring to say Australia would make its share of loans to the IMF that turned out to be necessary for that body to deal with another monetary crisis set off by sovereign debt defaults in Europe. With a complete disregard for the consequences of Australia reneging on its obligations, the xenophobic Abbott and Hockey made it clear that a government of theirs would not be helping to prop up a country like Greece.

Treasurer and acting Prime Minister Wayne Swan made a good fist of pointing out that Australian contributions to the IMF were by way of loans on which we earn interest but that meant nothing to the hopeless Hockey. He was armed with some comments last week by the British Chancellor George Osborne declaring that Britain will not contribute directly to any eurozone bailout or allow the IMF to do the same. That was enough for the shadow Treasurer to advocate Australia taking the same approach.

Interesting, then, that round about the same time as Abbott and Hockey were peddling their nonsense that the

BBC political editor Nick Robinson was reporting that the UK government is prepared to give more money to the International Monetary Fund so that it can help struggling eurozone nations. Such a move, said Robinson, could mean debt-ridden nations like Greece, Italy or Spain are indirectly helped by British taxpayers.

    “Chancellor George Osborne has reassured his backbenchers – and won himself favourable headlines in the Eurosceptic press – by declaring that Britain will not contribute directly to any eurozone bailout or allow the IMF to do the same.

    “But he is ready to say that the IMF may need more funds to help struggling countries around the globe, which might of course just include a few in the eurozone getting money in effect from the British taxpayer.”

Trevor

November 4. 2011 10:08 AM

nasking

Feral, Talk Turkey, Ad, Norman, Trevor, Jason & others,
what are yer views on this Eurozone problem...particularly Greece:

Economy of Greece

en.wikipedia.org/.../Economy_of_Greece

Looks to me like hedge funds, investment banks, those who don't like payin' tax and those who expect too much welfare have combined to contribute to another malaise.

N'

nasking

November 4. 2011 10:26 AM

Trevor

Nasking

Unfortunately I dont have time to go and dig up the source but their was a piece in "The Fin" a couple of weeks ago showing the breakdown of Greek debt.  What it showed was that the greatest proportion of the debt was interest on loans.  The actual amount that was borrowed initially was manageable.  As the bond market has ratcheted up the pressure and interest rates this has compounded and exploded.  Last I checked you could buy a $100 Greek bond for $31.  By comparison and Aussie $100 bond was trading for $112.  

If the interest was wiped off and Geece only owed the principle they would probably be OK.   Trouble is they now have been receiving loans to pay interest.  

Trevor

November 4. 2011 10:30 AM

lyn

Hi Ad Astra and all my friends on TPS

I am very excited to be back home again, my own comfort zone and routine is priceless.

TPS is just going from strength to strength, all our commenters are amazing with their genuine well informed reliable opinions.

There is not enough time for me to go back on everyone's blogs here
on TPS, but from the last thread, everyone's input has been exquisite.

Norman K has done a magnificent job of "Today's Links". Norman your
work is appreciated and enjoyed by all, thankyou is not enough, you deserve more.  We are all very lucky to have you as such a proven loyal member of TPS.

A big thankyou with heartfelt gratitude to you Norman.  I was very sad to hear about your adored pet, but then delighted at the news of your new family member.

Psyclaw at 07:54 AM thankyou for your once again brilliant informative comment.

I've been away for a couple of days and let me say a big thanks to all TPS personnel.

It is so easy to catch up on what's going on by a quick visit to TPS after being in the dark for a while.

How true a quick visit to TPS, we certainly don't care about the paywall's when we have TPS.

Thankyou Ad Astra for TPS, your work is admired, appreciated and adored by us all.

Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile


lyn

November 4. 2011 11:01 AM

Trevor

Unfortunately today may be my last as regular contributor to TPS.  For the last few months I have been working from home and TPS has provided a virtual water cooler to chat with people.  But starting next week I am back to putting my tie on and a physical water cooler.  I just hope my colleagues are as engaged and have informed views like those here.  Notwithstanding Ian Crisp who provides comic relief.

Could be interesting though, as for my sins I work in corporate environment where it is assumed all are right wing fellow travelers.  I often find it amusing to not counter this view and just keep quiet and listen.   It is not unusual to hear begrudging acknowledgment that labor are doing a good job but they still have to be kicked out.

I will still be dropping in but not as regularly.  So don't assume I have  moved on.
  

Trevor

November 4. 2011 11:43 AM

Feral Skeleton

Trevor!!!!! No!!!!! Your cool wellspring of reason will be sorely missed. Please come back as often as possible. Btw, I have found with corporate types that the judicious comment can have compound effects. Smile
ps Please take the time to read my next post in a quiet corner of the Corporate lunchroom, I think you'll like it. Smile

Feral Skeleton

November 4. 2011 11:50 AM

TalkTurkey

Nasking said

Feral, Talk Turkey, Ad, Norman, Trevor, Jason & others,
what are yer views on this Eurozone problem...particularly Greece?

Well!
Nobody has got back to me re my last 3 posts (one a few weeks ago) about Assange, though I have actually challenged others who have previously bagged him to defend their attitudes;

Nobody who was gung-ho at the time has said anything about their assessment of the outcome of the West's intervention, (about which I expressed grave misgivings at the time), (and let me make ow make quite clear that I think the whole shemozzle has been a huge #*ckup, like Iraq and Vietnam . . . And now there are threats of even more wars ) . . .

So Nasking, I'm feeling that even here people don't want to take responsibility for positions they have taken in the past and whose opinions both influence and are influenced by the action s of Governments, and whom I do hold responsible. With regard to the two issues as above, I have felt more slapped down than logically argued with, to the degree that I have found it impolitic or worse impossible to carry on an unheated conversation so I desisted and kept my own counsel.

So until I get some considered replies I'm not going to venture any more international opinions.    

TalkTurkey

November 4. 2011 11:53 AM

nasking

Hi Lyn,
welcome back...you've been really missed. Norman did a great job fillin' in...thnx to him for his effort (I'm gonna go thru this weeks' links again). You both are a great asset to this blog.

I hope you had quality time off, you deserved it.

I was watchin' some of the senate questionin' of Alan Joyce...

I reckon he has a tell...when caught out usin' "we" in relation to his reasoning behind the decision to ground the Qantas fleet he would shove his glasses up hard...he looked like a cat caught in a corner at that point...or a red-faced school boy caught out cheating & attempting to spin his way out.

BTW, Tony Abbott is lookin' REAL nervous.

N'

nasking

November 4. 2011 12:08 PM

nasking

This will blow your mind!

Feral,
thnx for the link to the "brain-like computer article". Truly amazing. I reckon medical science is about to explode outwards...changing our lives significantly...provided the research funds are there & Luddites such as certain religious organisations & the Bush/Abbott-like types don't have too much control.

I've often wondered if the cabal of Gina Rinehart, Twiggy Forest, Clive Palmer, Murdoch empire, James Packer, Alan Joyce, Freehills & their corporate/political/media allies would have enuff money to build an android to replace our top politicians...

but I guess they wouldn't need to...

they have EVERYTHING their hearts & bank accounts & shares & investments and other asset holdings could desire in TONY ABBOTT.

N'

nasking

November 4. 2011 12:17 PM

nasking

Trevor!!!!! No!!!!! Your cool wellspring of reason will be sorely missed. Please come back as often as possible

I'll second that.

Thnx for the feedback on Greece...I'm presently diggin' into the situation in order to understand it better...much of the media reporting has been vague...and too oft goes to pollies & bankers & finance types or media business analysts as primary definers...and the odd suit, business owner & yuppie in main street.

Rarely do we hear from the 99% who do the grunt work...who are gonna have to, like their children, be enslaved to the big banks & do w/out, make huge sacrifices for the rest of their miserable lives.

The corporations & their puppet pollies & media hover over them like flying machines in Terminator..."pay up or die".

N'  

nasking

November 4. 2011 12:26 PM

nasking

Nobody has got back to me re my last 3 posts (one a few weeks ago) about Assange, though I have actually challenged others who have previously bagged him to defend their attitudes;

Apologies TT...I've been desperately tryin' to juggle a thousand things...I meant to reply. And also go more carefully thru Norman's links.

I'll check out yer comments again & reply soon.

You've put in a big effort...as has Patricia by way of her brill poems.

If only we could stop time eh? Find time as individuals to reflect & research & analyse & do all the things we want & need to. Seems so cramped these days.

Not surprised the share markets move so rapidly these days...imagine the corruption/crim possibilities.

The benefits of havin' the regular folk too busy & distracted...and havin' influence, ownership, contacts & moolah eh?  

N'

nasking

November 4. 2011 12:29 PM

lyn

Hi Nasking

Thankyou, you are always so nice.  Also thankyou for supporting Normank and thankyou for missing me.

I am so pleased to be back and having a great time catching up, I was in an all Liberal house you know, you have to feel sorry for me

was watchin' some of the senate questionin' of Alan Joyce...

So was I watching, Cameron sure twisted Joyce up didn't he?

Some worthwhile tweets for everyone:-

PollyticsPossum Comitatus
The question is now why did Joyce *really* choose lockout over simply threatening it (and achieving the same result without screwing people)
20 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply

PollyticsPossum Comitatus
He can't have it both ways. If he wouldnt have changed decision with 72 hrs notice, his excuse to lockout rather than threaten is rubbish
25 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply

PollyticsPossum Comitatus
Let's repeat.Joyce said giving 72 hrs notice wouldnt have changed decision. Then says he couldnt have given such notice for safety reasons
27 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply

PollyticsPossum Comitatus
Joyce chose lockout over threat, even though he earlier admitted that his decision wouldn't have changed if he had to give 72hrs notice!
31 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply

Simon_CullenSimon Cullen
The Senate Chairman encourages the media to chase Alan Joyce out of the building... then reminds them of the rules about filming in parly
33 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply

sortiussortius
Cameron is really giving it to Joyce for not going to FWA BEFORE the grounding #qantas
1 hour agoFavoriteRetweetReply

StGusfaceGusface
by GrogsGamut
@Pollytics sheldon has sworn statements from witness alleging knowledge of the shutdown way before the satday
10 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply

peterjblackPeter Black
"Joyce’s Choice: how far can he go?": paul barry explains for @thepowerindex http://bit.ly/sVdwDV
1 minute agoFavoriteRetweetReply

Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmile

lyn

November 4. 2011 12:56 PM

nasking

sexual misbehaviour, but why?, because he didn't live up to our hopes for Howard/Bush- skewering evidence.

TT,
I think there are some critics who are willing to abandon Assange to his fate, almost willing it on, because they have the perception he leans more to the Right of politics...that's not on...

it hasn't helped that he found various excuses to go after centrist, occasionally left-leaning, every once in awhile progressive yet ultimately corporate ad determined The Guardian & NY Times...

curious timing...

and has failed to "out" the Murdoch empire, Rupert specifically...seems to have kept up his sleeve info related to bank corruption...

bargaining chips?...

and now done a contortionist act to defend the well-paid great sh*t stirrer Andrew Bolt.

I'm not one who joins the ranks of "get him because he's not Left enuff"...in fact I feel sorry for him that he's so confused & paranoid the past couple of years he allowed/allows his anxiety to derail him from doin' the total TRUTH OUT job...

and may have led him to treat people more aggressively than he would've not under so much pressure.

It is important however, that he be treated fairly by the courts & media & politicians & corporations (shameful stuff paypal, Visa etc re: Wikileaks...not a good look, tyrannical) as much as possible considerin' how much the cases have now been distorted & exposed to the greater public...this may have prejudiced his trial...

but also, as mentioned previously, he is still an individual who must not be exempt from the rule of law based on various democracies he resides in & visits...

and he is fortunate to have a BIG VOICE and plenty of expert advice & support & funding...

unlike the rest of the 99%.

Btw, interestin', thought provokin', use of wolf & lamb analogy.

Cheers
N'

nasking

November 4. 2011 01:16 PM

nasking

Lyn,
yer quite welcome. You are a positive star that helps light the way.

I am so pleased to be back and having a great time catching up, I was in an all Liberal house you know, you have to feel sorry for me

He he...can I relate...most of my family are Righties...tho, they're still pretty kind at times...and lookout for their family...provided they don't differ too much from their oft narrow, stern views...

it's the feeling I can't speak out & discuss things w/out bein'called "too argumentative, opinionated, emotive, wear yer heart too much on yer sleeve, politics & animal rights etc. should be kept to yerself unless it's our view" that bugs me...

feels like discrimination...

and the underlyin' xenophobia & homophobia that expresses itself now & then by way of jokes...or control freak type anxiety...it's disappointin'...even tho they all have non-Anglo/Celtic/Euro friends, many from Asia...and gay friends who they adore...and treat w/ respect.

Pretty confusin'...patterns of taught behaviour obviously...rising up like hot lava now & then...but oft dormant now...

yes, things have improved the last couple of years...

the global interconnected thing (trade, media, technology, migration, climate change) can create alot of anxiety & confusion...plenty of room for media fear-mongerin' & pushin' parochial, xenophobe stirrin' stuff...particularly as economies wobble...

just like durin' the fin de siecle & post that period:

www.britannica.com/.../fin-de-siecle

But eventually we get there...get used to changes...adapt...

there's no goin' back.

It might help tho if the Chinese yen problem was dealt w/...unfair advantage causin' huge distortions in the global economy & changin' the social fabric, not always for the best...

same goes for mining. And big oil. Big pharma. Fast food. Investment banks, rampant gambling...and casino markets.

N'  

nasking

November 4. 2011 01:39 PM

Patricia WA

TT - my lack of enthusiasm for Assange has nothing to do with his political leanings, rather that I don't trust him enough - his  character or his judgement.

I need to know a lot more about him to convince me that this self appointed champion of open government has the wisdom to make decisions which affect world security at a macro level, or even the fate of individuals like whistleblower Bradley Manning at a personal level.  He seems to have no concern for those he has used in his Wiki leaks crusade.

Show me evidence that he is trustworthy and a credible potential leader of a revolution which seeks to overturn centuries old practices of governments worldwide which he finds reprehensible.  For all their failings I think that our democratic institutions are more subject to checks and balances than this one man, even a group of men.  His fellow pioneers and co/crusaders hardly seem a cohesive or reliable team either.

Let him seek election or support from a political party and promote his beliefs in the democratic way, and I might find him more credible.

Patricia WA

November 4. 2011 01:48 PM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
A big welcome back. I've been trying to post a longer message to you from my computer, but am having great difficulty connecting to the Internet today.  So I'm posting this from the iPad, and will try my computer again after I return from the market.

Ad astra reply

November 4. 2011 02:45 PM

nasking

Talkin' about hypocrites...double standards:

Haley Barbour Took Money From Makers Of Abortion Pill, Says Personhood Campaign

Haley Barbour, the conservative, pro-life governor of Mississippi, surprised and infuriated supporters of the state's anti-abortion "personhood" initiative on Wednesday when he told MSNBC's Chuck Todd that he might be voting against it. The Personhood USA campaign retaliated on Thursday by pointing out that Barbour took campaign contributions from Monsanto and Pfizer -- pharmaceutical companies that manufacture the abortion pill.

"We thought it was really strange that he would oppose this measure, since we have the support of nearly every other politician in the state, both Democrat and Republican. So we did a little digging," Jennifer Mason, spokesperson for Personhood USA, told HuffPost. "We discovered that he has received campaign contributions from the makers of the abortion pill as recently as 2007."

Pfizer makes Misoprostol tablets, one of the two pills taken to end early pregnancy, which would be banned if Mississippi voters pass the personhood amendment at the ballots next week. According to a campaign contributions database, Pfizer contributed $7,000 to Barbour's reelection campaign in 2006 and Monsanto, Pfizer's parent company, contributed $1,000.

Barbour's office did not immediately respond to calls for comment.

Barbour told Chuck Todd he had concerns about the initiative's ambiguity, but also about its ramifications for women's health.

The Mississippi personhood amendment would redefine a person in the constitution as "every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning, or the functional equivalent thereof," and opponents say it could outlaw certain forms of birth control, in vitro fertilization, stem cell research and abortions, even in cases where the woman's life is in danger.


These Republicans seem to opportunistically pick & choose...and look the other way...when it comes to controversial issues...STOMP STOMP STOMP on others' rights...PERSECUTE PERSECUTE PERSECUTE...as long as they get the MEDIA LIMELIGHT...get the financial backing necessary to do their masters' work.

This vid goes to show how some of our authority figures who doll out justice and lecture others are also hypocrites...a Texan judge actin' loopy, beltin' his daughter 9 years ago...now he's tryin' to justify his actions by sayin' she needed to be "disciplined":

www.youtube.com/.../watch%3Fv%3Demp-dM7SvAg

I've noticed a number of cults & extreme religious groups & their political supporters, or who take money from them, are also big on this type of "discipline".

I reckon they might feel more at home in places like Iran, Syria, China, Russia, Nth Korea, Yemen, Saudi Arabia & parts of Africa than they might think.

Good old Texas eh? Anything goes. Behind closed doors...including company, judges' & politicians' doors.

As long as the DIGGING goes on eh?

N'




nasking

November 4. 2011 02:54 PM

NormanK

Hi Lyn,
A great big Welcome Back! to you.
The place just ain't the same without the Tweety Bird keeping an eye on things for us.
You really have been missed a lot. Laughing Laughing Laughing

NormanK

November 4. 2011 03:00 PM

Trevor

Thanks for the kind words FS & Nas I will still be monitoring TPS but will probably only contribute in the evenings (WA Time).  

Nasking,  If you are interested in a good take on what is going on in Europe/Greece I tripped over this www.abc.net.au/.../3354395.htm?site=brisbane   interview with Paul Keating by Richard Fidler.  It is well worth listening to and as usual PJK provides an insightful but easy to understand view on what is happening.

Geez I miss not having someone of his intellect, wit and erudition in the gov't.  I think he would have Tony and Joe well and truly exposed as the bumbling fools they are before lunch on the first day.

Trevor

November 4. 2011 03:04 PM

nasking

CRIKEY...its important that the Australian media realise that the Murdoch empire is entitled to scoops & legal proceedings' info before anyone else...

because they are the heart of the nation...as the Oz tells us...

gawd forbid if anyone else steps on their patch:

Friday, 4 November 2011  
Simons: to tweet or not to tweet from court…
by Margaret Simons, Crikey.com

Now to the comparatively marginal matter of reporting courts on Twitter. As my Twitter followers will know, on the first day of the committal  hearing in the case against Simon Artz, after Crikey’s lunchtime deadline, I continued to report events in the Melbourne Magistrates Court via Twitter.

I have done this before, in the Federal Court. Twitter court reporting is fairly common overseas, and there are several incidences in Australia as well.

During the course of yesterday I became aware that The Australian’s Melbourne bureau chief, Chip Le Grand, was applying to the court for an audio recording of the first day’s hearing.

Later, I heard that in the letter seeking access, The Australian had mentioned my tweeting.

I approached the clerk of court and said that it had been me tweeting, and if His Honour wished to speak to me about it, I was available. The clerk responded that His Honour had not known about the Twitter feed before receiving the letter seeking access to the audio file, and had made it known that he considered tweeting from the court “inappropriate”.

Crikey’s legal advice on this is that it is essentially at the discretion of the magistrate. There are no rules on it governing Magistrates Courts, though there are these guidelines concerning the Supreme Court.

Under these guidelines, it would apparently be OK to email court reports to multiple recipients, but not to tweet the same material. Tweet reporting has been done from the County Court, and the Federal Court.


www.crikey.com.au/.../

Fortunately, the Murdoch empire minions get to express their frustration on the public broadcaster...many many times a week...regardless of how many times they crap on the ABC from their high chair position in society...

what would this country be w/out the mood disorders of News Ltd?

Bullying, threatening, distorting, propagandising one moment, wringing out their hankies as victims the next.

What was Margaret Simons of Crikey thinkin'?...she must think her media organisation is David.

N'

nasking

November 4. 2011 03:49 PM

Gravel

Lyn

Welcome back, we have missed you, although must send congratulations to Normank for manfully fulfilling your links.

Trevor

I for one will miss you 'bad abbotts'.  I hope the return to the 'boardroom'  is not too big an upset.  I would hate to go from working at home to an office again.

Nas

Ltd News, just like the opposition, they can dish it out but can't take it.  Who is surprised when they whinge to a judge that the judge reacts.  Money, money, money in a rich man's world. It's not what you know, it's who you know.

Gravel

November 4. 2011 03:57 PM

nasking

If you are interested in a good take on what is going on in Europe/Greece I tripped over this www.abc.net.au/.../3354395.htm?site=brisbane   interview with Paul Keating by Richard Fidler.  It is well worth listening to and as usual PJK provides an insightful but easy to understand view on what is happening.

Mny thnx Trevor...Keating has this ability to express complex issues in a clear, concise, down-to-earth manner, yet manages to also sound like a policy/economy wonk...one of the problems w/ our universities when I was attending was the jargon & the inability of some to articulate w/out confusing.

So Greece, Italy & Spain etc. are sittin' between a rock and a hard place because they should never have entered the EU to begin with...it shoulda been made up of the powerhouses France, Germany & the Netherlands.

Now Germany worries if the entire EU breaks up they will become uncompetitive...no wonder Merkel is workin' overtime...

Seems to me that it would be better if the Medi states did leave the EU...certainly this could see runs on their banks...but surely some other organisations such as the IMF could assist in the process?

Isn't our PM Gillard proposin' we add to the IMF's funds?

Didn't Argentina go thru bankruptcy & come out the other end.

And surely the Medi states could push for mega-tourism due to their falling currencies? Look at how many well-off Greeks & Italians live in Australia for one...lookin' for a good time to return home...perhaps setup trade & businesses.

It would seem to me that dealin' w/ the Chinese Yen would also help deal w/ competitiveness problems.

And the rorters, con-artists, money hungry grubs must go...like Berlusconi.

Ya know, Keating is someone I respect...he pisses me off sometimes w/ his comments re: The Greens...but as a GreenLaborite I can roll w/ the punches.

As for his luv for music...how it inspires him...helps him develop policies & write...I can relate. Regardless of my satire related to the Romantics & such...I do luv poetry & literature & music that reaches into the indefineable regions...utilises intense emotion & passion in an attempt to express the inexpressible...puts the rational aside for a time to explore yer inner-most feelings...

we are all multicoloured. Oft bi-polar. At times contradictory...it is those inherent contradictions that help make us unique.

If Greece leaves the EU...and the other Med states...they are takin' a big risk...but hey, I thought the markets adored risk...the ebb & flow of things...the unpredictability...the adventure.

As long as regulators keep it pretty sane & fairly honest eh?

N'

nasking

November 4. 2011 04:04 PM

nasking

Romanticism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanticism

The modern sense of a romantic character may be expressed in Byronic ideals of a gifted, perhaps misunderstood loner, creatively following the dictates of his inspiration rather than the standard ways of contemporary society.

Although the movement was rooted in the German Sturm und Drang movement, which prized intuition and emotion over Enlightenment rationalism, the ideologies and events of the French Revolution laid the background from which both Romanticism and the Counter-Enlightenment emerged. The confines of the Industrial Revolution also had their influence on Romanticism, which was in part an escape from modern realities; indeed, in the second half of the 19th century, "Realism" was offered as a polarized opposite to Romanticism.

Romanticism elevated the achievements of what it perceived as heroic individualists and artists, whose pioneering examples would elevate society. It also legitimized the individual imagination as a critical authority, which permitted freedom from classical notions of form in art. There was a strong recourse to historical and natural inevitability, a zeitgeist, in the representation of its ideas.


A reminder for Berlusconi & Murdoch:

Here lies one whose name was writ in water
- Keats

N'

nasking

November 4. 2011 04:22 PM

nasking

Ltd News, just like the opposition, they can dish it out but can't take it.  Who is surprised when they whinge to a judge that the judge reacts.  Money, money, money in a rich man's world. It's not what you know, it's who you know.

So true Gravel.

BTW, did you see that brill interview on Lateline last nite w/ Spephen Frears?:

TONY JONES: Now, Stephen, there's no way of putting this delicately, but as a gay man, do you regard yourself as an endangered species?

STEPHEN FRY: (Laughs) Well, it's a very good question. It's - you may ask why a gay man should care about what the future of the planet because I'm not going to leave any genes behind. So it seems that I have less of a sort of in-built imperative to care about the future of the planet.

But, I do, for some reason, care about the future of the planet. Are we an endangered species? It's so difficult to say. You know, for almost every advance that's made, and the advances have been enormous in my own time, absolutely colossal.

When I was a teenager, fully aware that I was gay, I was reading - the only things I could read in the library were stories - either novels, which all ended in suicide, death, shame, exposure, imprisonment, or reading biographies of people that ended in shame, exposure, or indeed just total secrecy.

It looked like a pretty grim life for me. I was either going to be some sort of sad librarian in a little university or something - if I couldn't make it that, or - or I would have to go to some - you know, to Tangier or some exotic place which is where gay people used to go and have a relative amount of freedom.

I could never imagine the results of gay liberation, as it was originally called. You know, Stonewall, the rights there, the rise of gay consciousness and pride and all these things.

TONY JONES: The gay marriage debate is going to be revived very soon in Australia because the Labor Party's going to have its conference. They're going to have a debate. Most likely a conscious vote will be given ...

STEPHEN FRY: Yes, rather than the whip.

TONY JONES: ... to Labor MPs and it will go the Parliament, but it will inevitably lose in Parliament because the weight of numbers is against the idea. Do you have a strong feeling about gay marriage?

STEPHEN FRY: Well, yes. I suppose the wonder that anyone would have is how bizarre it is that gay people go from being from a threat to marriage because they are outside the holy sanctuary of marriage, which is the unit that holds society together and is the God-given way that people should express their love within this unit and that gay people with their Bohemian lives outside it are just - one of the things that's wrong about them is they're so sort of - they're the opposite of marriage.

And when gay people, having finally established rights and everything else and gone through the sort of - you know, the sort of teenage year of gay freedom, which of course had in some senses disastrous consequences in terms of the casual encounters and the spread of AIDS and so on.

And as we've grown up and realised that we too like all human beings yearn for one thing more than any other, and that is love, to love and to be loved and we find someone we love and we wish to express it and commit to it publicly in the same way that heterosexuals do, which can hardly be said to be the enemy of marriage anymore; we're now the friend of marriage.

So they have to sort of change their argument somewhat and say, "OK, you want to be normal. You want to be bourgeois. The only difference being that you're both the same gender."

TONY JONES: Well I'll tell you - I'll give you the Prime Minister's argument, Julia Gillard, who's not married herself. She's living in a de facto relationship. But her argument is that marriage is by convention between a man and woman and she's going to back that convention.

STEPHEN FRY: Yes. Well convention is the word. As long as you understand it's by convention, not by holy writ, not by natural law, not by anything other than convention. And conventions are there - you know, people convene to agree on them or disagree on them, like a Geneva Convention or any other convention, like an arms limitation convention, like any sort of convention.

Or like the convention that - for example, when it was agreed that the slave trade be abolished, there was a convention about it amongst the British ruling classes and they agreed on compensation of £20 million - a gigantic sum. But, no, you have to listen. No, you have to finish the end of this.

TONY JONES: Alright. OK.

STEPHEN FRY: It's rather important.

TONY JONES: Yep.

STEPHEN FRY: They agreed on a gigantic sum of £20 million compensation when they abolished the slave trade. The compensation went to the slave owners, not to the slaves. So you can convene anything. It doesn't make it right.


AND:

TONY JONES: And now Hitchens is probably one of the leading public intellectuals in the world.

STEPHEN FRY: Exactly. Salman was the great novelist. Clive James was a fantastic sort of gadfly wit, huge on television in Britain. And Hitch was - no-one had really heard of Christopher Hitchens particularly. But he suddenly sort of rose above them all in - and I think one of the things that's most - that I will ask him - one of the things that was most perhaps galling, if I can put it like that, for him is that his life seems to be on the verge of being snatched away from him at a time when he has most achieved.

TONY JONES: Perhaps the thing that's catapulted him into megastardom is his atheism.

STEPHEN FRY: Yes.

TONY JONES: Will you challenge that?

STEPHEN FRY: I will certainly challenge his atheism. We've done this before, funnily enough, in a smaller way in that I was more merciful and will always be more merciful to piously devout people and also I have an absolute love of ecclesiastical architecture.

One of the greatest passions of my life is the music of Johann Sebastian Bach. I mean, it's overtaken by my passion for Wagner and Beethoven, but Bach, especially when played by Glenn Gould on the piano - and none of their music - I don't think any of the music of Bach would exist were it not for religion.

I don't think it's any good to say that you can have a humanist equivalent of Chartres Cathedral. You just can't. You can have a fine art gallery. But almost all the elements that make up architecture - and that's a good model in the same way that language is a model for understanding society ...

TONY JONES: But these are proofs that there may be some good in religion.

STEPHEN FRY: No, no, no! No - yes, exactly.

TONY JONES: They have no - there's no proof contained in this of the existence of God, unless you assume that Glenn Gould somehow is in touch with the supernatural.

STEPHEN FRY: Oh, absolutely. No, I completely agree with you. And no, I don't believe in God. To me there is no difference between someone who believes in Allah or Yahweh, or God, the Christian God, or Christ, than someone who believes in Pan and Hephaestus and Zeus and the gods of the Greek myth.

They're wonderful constructs and they allow for marvellous art because they tell great stories of the human collective unconscious at a time before we had science to articulate an expression and an explanation of the world. They do it.

And what's more, unlike science they include human capriciousness and will. So if there were a God, let's assume the Bertrand Russell position, his famous china teapot. He said, "Well, we can dismiss the idea of a loving god. I mean, the justification of the ways of God to man - there are two-year-old children, as we speak, screaming in agony of bone cancer. The idea of a universally loving god is just manifest nonsense. But there may be a powerful god. There may be a god who chooses never to show himself, who hides himself in almost every way from us in everyday life, in the same way that there may be a china teapot in orbit around one of the planets, in exactly such a way like the dark side of the moon that we never see it. It is impossible to disprove that that china teapot exists," as Bertrand Russell says.

On the other hand, it is absurd to believe that it exists. And it's more than absurd to predicate a whole system of moral codes on the basis of that unprovable thing. It is actually wicked to do so.

So, yes, you can never disprove God. Of course you can't. And you can't disprove the teapot, but to all intents and purposes, if there is a god, it is clear that he's capricious, wilful, mean, treacherous, a liar, unkind, prepared to see suffering of the most shameful kind.

So he's much closer therefore to Zeus and Jupiter and to other gods that have been created by other myths than to this pallid Victorian idea of all creatures great and small.

more here:

www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3355739.htm

Another well read, interestin' as heck, wide thinkin' individual.

Unlike some of the sad sacks & sh*t stiirers on SKY NEWS & in the Murdoch empire...who've sold their principles & freedom of thought for security that is writ on water.

N'

nasking

November 4. 2011 04:24 PM

nasking

Spephen Frears?...make that Stephen Fry.

Long day. Smile

N'

nasking

November 4. 2011 04:34 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
We’re back from the Queen Victoria Market, laden with weekend fare.  I see the Internet is working again so I’ll post what I couldn’t before.

A big welcome back Lyn.  We’ve missed your delightful comments and your lovely Gravatar.  Thank you for your kind comments about TPS.

NormanK has done a marvellous job maintaining the high standards you have set.
We look forward to you resuming your links after the weekend and to your regular commentary on what’s transpiring here on our ever-interesting website.

Like you, I hope Trevor will continue to visit and leave his always-interesting comments.  

Trevor
Thank you for your generous comments; do stay with us, and visit whenever you can.

We have appreciated your thoughtful and informative comments.  Good luck with your new job.

Ad astra

November 4. 2011 04:41 PM

Ad astra

NormanK
I’m sure I am echoing everyone’s feelings when I say a very big thank you to you for keeping the links going while Lyn was away.  

You have brilliantly kept up the high standard she set.  Lyn’s Links are a very special feature of TPS.  They attract much traffic from those who find the links a first-class way of keeping up to date, especially with what’s going on in the Fifth Estate.  It’s very reassuring to have someone like you to fill in for Lyn when she is away.  I hope we can call on you again when she is taking a break.

Many, many thanks from us all.

Ad astra

November 4. 2011 05:26 PM

Feral Skeleton

   Wow! That month really flew by! I can still remember as if it was today, saying goodbye to lyn and wondering how TPS would look without her links.

   Thankfully, we had an able Understudy(theatrical analogy for you there, NK Smile ), in NormanK, who seamlessly glided in to replace lyn, and has now glided out again.

   However, when you think about it, a lot has happened in that month, not least of which was the passing of 2 faithful companions of those who come here to visit and set a while each day. Hopefully we can safely say that coming here helps ease the pain, due to the community that we have created and attempt to maintain.

  Speaking of which, brings me back to lyn. For The Political Sword wouldn't be half the magnet to internet eyes and souls that it is, if it wasn't for her unstinting efforts to create that home for us all to come to and express our political and media thoughts, far from the madding MSM crowd. The way she brightly and warmly greets each newcomer, and makes them feel welcome; I can think of no other blog on the Internet, in the world, where this is the case. Add to that her seeming-encyclopedic knowledge of all the other blogs that are out there, from which she sources her links, and also an uncanny knack for being able to source what was said, when, if we need to know, and it just leaves me feeling a sense of awe at her commitment to TPS.

   Welcome back, lyn! You're awesome! Smile

Feral Skeleton

November 4. 2011 05:31 PM

Feral Skeleton

  You little ripper!

   2yrs out & it's anyones game: Take that media! - RT Gordon Graham #Morgan Phone 2PP: ALP 48.5 (+4.5) L/NP 51.5 (-4.5)

Feral Skeleton

November 4. 2011 05:40 PM

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TT
I have not responded to the Assange affair as I have not been able to generate much interest in it.  It is a pity that what he was/is attempting to do has been overshadowed, to use a favourite media word, by the charges of sexual assault.  How much more effective his campaign might have been without this, no matter whether one agrees or disagrees with his actions.

Do keep posting your comments on international matters.  They are interesting and relevant, even if they don't evoke much comment.

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November 4. 2011 06:10 PM

2353

   2yrs out & it's anyones game: Take that media! - RT Gordon Graham #Morgan Phone 2PP: ALP 48.5 (+4.5) L/NP 51.5 (-4.5)  Now that's a good start to the weekend.

Welcome back Lyn.

2353

November 4. 2011 06:15 PM

nasking

2yrs out & it's anyones game: Take that media! - RT Gordon Graham #Morgan Phone 2PP: ALP 48.5 (+4.5) L/NP 51.5 (-4.5)

Feral:

Smile Smile Smile

No wonder Abbott's nervous...and the Murdoch people are so desperate.

As it's not election time and the polls can't be compared to the results I wonder if Newspoll & the other corporate-connected polls will give a diff story in order to undermine the govt?
Wouldn't surprise me.

BTW,
thnx to The Political Sword for toleratin' me...it did indeed help ease the pain of losin' Midnight.

Yer a top bunch.

I'm sure Ad shakes his noggin' readin' my headrush stuff sometimes...thinkin' "what the...?" Smile

N'

nasking

November 4. 2011 06:29 PM

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Folks
I've just posted another piece of clever satire by Acerbic Conehead: [i]A Prior Engagement[i/]. Enjoy.

www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...r-Engagement.aspx

Ad astra

November 4. 2011 06:46 PM

Ad astra

Nasking
We enjoy your contributions - so varied and informative.  You will always be welcome here.

Ad astra

November 4. 2011 07:11 PM

TalkTurkey

Were the Guvnors 47,
And the Coalons 53,
Well that wouldn't have been Heaven,
But it would've suited me.
But with 48-Plus percent for Us
And Them on 52-Minus
We're All Aboard the Magic Bus
And we're circumcising Pynus!

I told youse all they was sick. They're heading for sicker. They will be laughing stock by March, and boring as last year's oil spill by mid 2012. They are bound for the land of Quandary - and the less-stupid of them have already seen its forbidding coasts from afar (but it seems nowhere near as afar as TalkTurkey (preens!) and of course Ad astra who has the Ad vantage of extreme long sight.)

How the less-stupid of them have taken so long, how even the less-stupid have been stupid enough to follow Abbortt and his No-Hopers so far up Sewer Street with no road map back to decency, is 'way beyond me.

Abbortt's toxic brain must be squirmin' like a toad.

Well yeah, more than usual.

    


TalkTurkey

November 4. 2011 10:03 PM

jane

TT what's the bet the spectre of a Kevin Rudd challenge for the leadership will take front & centre in Ltd News outlets everywhere in a desperate attempt to bolster their hero's stocks.

Or perhaps Sloppy will remember some rumours that nobody else can, or Alan Joyce will ground some more planes.

On the matter of Assange, I'm inclined to agree with Patricia WA, I have never trusted him to be honest. I can't put my finger on it, there's just something about him that puts my hackles up.

Sad that your blogging style will be cramped by having to don a tie and bag of fruit, Trevor. Still there's always weekends!Smile

Lyn glad to see you back. NormanK did a superb job in your absence.

Thanks for the Jones/Fry transcript, Nas'. I'd completely forgotten about it.

jane

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