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What is making Labor stalwarts gloomy?

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Friday, 25 May 2012 17:25 by Ad astra
It no longer surprises us that Graham Richardson (Richo) emits gloom about Labor whenever he appears in the media. He knows on which side his bread is buttered. While he may believe what he says, he says it with such conviction and enthusiasm that the casual observer could be excused for thinking he is a dyed-in-the-wool Coalition advocate rather that an ex-Labor minister, and a high ranking one at that. Anyone who has read his fascinating 2005 book The Latham Diaries will understand why Mark Latham is ready to throw mud at Labor whenever he can. He believes he was dudded by his colleagues and badly let down by the party machine, especially during the 2004 election campaign which Labor lost, gaining only 60 seats to the Coalition’s 76. For him, revenge on his old party is sweet.

But it was disturbing when several Labor stalwarts, speaking before and during the recent ACTU conference, expressed so much gloom about Labor’s current situation and its electoral prospects. One such stalwart was Bill Kelty, who has given so much to the Labor Party for so many years. During his address he said: “It’s too easy to blame the media, too easier to blame the playthings of politics. And there’s no purpose blaming the opposition for doing, what after all, you’d expect them to do and that’s to beat you.”

I was dismayed that such a Labor icon could give the media in this country a free kick, a media that pours its malevolence over our PM and our Government day after day - not all of the media, but well over the seventy percent of it owned by Rupert Murdoch. I was disappointed too that in those few words he had let the Coalition off the hook. We all know that the job of an opposition is to beat the government, but does that permit it to mount the most vicious, malignant, toxic personal campaign of denigration and demonization of our PM and our Government, and of particular individuals, that we have seen in recent Australian political history? No. I thought at the time it was imprudent for Kelty to use those words, and I still do.

What is equally distressing is that those two sentences were the ones seized upon by the media. They were the ones that got the column inches, the radio news coverage, and the TV slots. Do you know what else Bill Kelty said? If not, let me tell you. I doubt if you would have picked this up in any of our media, determined, as is so much of it, to destroy our elected Government and its leader.

Here is what he said a few sentences later:

And it is also too easy to accept defeat. Too easy to say the Labor Party will not win.

“I remember Bob Hawke coming back from a Labor Party conference in which the headlines of the Sun was “Hawke finished. Never again will his name be mentioned as a future Prime Minister”. And I talked to Bob; I said how did you go? He said “shithouse”. I said, what are you going to do? He said, "I’m gonna regroup, I’m gonna rebuild, learn from what mistakes I made, but Bill I will be the Prime Minister".

“And he was.”


Kelty then talked about Paul Keating:

I sat with Paul Keating one day, when he wasn’t feeling particularly well that day. And he said, "It might be too hard Bill. I’ve got the wrong end of the political cycle".

“I won’t tell you all he said… But I said, "There’s never been an economist
[John Hewson], elected as Prime Minister yet, mate, and there won’t be. You can beat him…you can beat him".

“And he did.


Kelty recalls a phone call from Keating at that time: ”He said, “I’m gonna win, mate”... I said, “that’s good, now why are you gonna win.”

“And he said, “Hewson made this speech. And the speech he made, he said, ‘this country, for too long, has stopped to pick up the people. Stopped to care too much for people’.” >

“He said, “By the time I’m finished with him, mate, he’ll be picking up himself.”


Did anyone read that rallying cry of Kelty in the press; how many of you heard it in radio bulletins or in TV clips?

This is what Labor now needs, not the negative emissions of the prophets of doom, the merchants of gloom and despair. What a difference it would have made to Kelty’s speech if he had left unsaid the comments about the media and the Coalition, and simply hammered home the encouraging words of Hawke and Keating!

This is my starting point. Confident words, the words of those two great leaders, words that lift spirits and give hope. And I will summon logic and reasoning to make the case that Labor will win in 2013, rather than offer you just wishful thinking.

The polls
Of all the evidence that the doomsters use for their dire prognostications, opinion polls of voting intention are by far the most potent. Polling companies prosper by running frequent polls and feeding the results to media outlets, some of which actually own the polling organizations. With often more than one poll a week, there is ample fodder for hungry columnists, some of whom have become poll experts whose word is gospel, or so they believe. Poll commentary is easy journalism, it fills column inches, and it serves the commercial, and often the ideological objectives of the media outlets.

Those who understand polling, the assumptions underlying polls, the statistical manipulations that take place, and the limitations of polling, attest that polls of voting intention so far from the next scheduled election are not predictive. That cannot and do not tell us who will win the next election. They tell us only what has happened in the past, or is happening now. That is why commentators preface their comments with: “If an election were to be held today, the result would be…” But it is not being held today. It will likely be held eighteen months from now, when the polls have a chance of being more predictive. Why do commentators persist with this monotonous charade? Because it makes plausible copy for papers, radio and TV, and because they believe the people will swallow it. More sinisterly, because it often suits their political purposes, which for many is the removal of the Gillard Government.

So while poll commentators and news writers would have us give credence to their offerings, can we please ignore them for at least another twelve months? Look at the trends by all means, but not individual polls. They mislead, feed into the next poll, seriously distort thinking about the parties, and tell us nothing about how they will rate in eighteen months. We know that polls always narrow as the election approaches, and in federal elections, notwithstanding substantial gaps between the parties beforehand, the gap narrows to just a few points. Federal elections are close, as will be the 2013 election, not the catastrophic landslide the pundits now predict.

There are of course other parameters polled such as approval/disapproval ratings, preferred PM, and opinions about a host of other issues. Because the popularity ratings reflect TPP scores, it is likely that the leader of the least preferred party contemporaneously will be unpopular. So let’s not place much store on Julia Gillard’s current ratings, as the commentators would have us do. They use these spurious figures to stir up talk of leadership change, which is always great copy, especially for the tabloids. We have had enough media speculation about leadership change to last us a lifetime. The media knows that low popularity, and murmurings from the Nervous Nellies in the Labor Party who seem to see no harm in backgrounding marauding journalists with their fears and their desire for a change to a leader that they feel might give them a better chance in their marginal seats, is a powerful combination. Leadership speculation is on again this week! Ignore all this leadership talk. Despite the confident predictions of Richo and his News Limited mates, Julia Gillard is going nowhere. There is no one else. And the game of asking the people about their preferred leader and throwing up Kevin Rudd and sundry others as alternatives is as stupid as it is malevolent. Forget this charade too.

In summary, forget the polls. Look at the Government’s performance.

Strong Government performance
Any reasonable observer of the Gillard Government’s performance in passing legislation would rate it as good. With over three hundred of pieces already passed by mid term, this result surpasses by far anything achieved by the last government. And they have included major reforms to taxation, industrial relations, health, disability, education, business, manufacturing, mining, agriculture, climate change, the renewables industry, and environmental sustainability. There have been no failures. The only motions not passed have been a couple of inconsequential procedural ones.

The Gillard Government is an active, fast moving, reforming one. While some of its achievements have filtered out to the public gaze, they have not had much coverage in the conventional media, and as journalists like to tell us so often, even our ABC journalists, the Government’s good news has been ‘overshadowed’ by scandals or other salacious events, or that Julia Gillard ‘could not escape questions’ about Craig Thomson or Peter Slipper, or any other distraction, which the media itself creates to corrupt the dialogue about policy and achievements. What hope has the Government got in the face of the hostile, sensationalist media in this country?

Only this week the OECD gave Australia’s economy a very glowing report, rating it as one on the best among advanced economies, even predicting it would surpass the US economy as the safest in the world for investors. This is the economy the Rudd/Gillard Government shielded from the GFC, one that it has fostered since into one with unemployment, interest rates, and inflation all under five percent. Yet how much front-page publicity does this get in the tabloids. None. Even the broadsheets give little exposure of Australia’s outstanding position and performance. The good news is buried.

Our high performance Government gets far too little credit, too little positive publicity. How long can this disregard for the truth continue to give way to the media goals of titillation, sensation, and entertainment? Surely as an election approaches the public must be given a truthful account of what the Gillard Government has done, and its fiscal performance getting the Budget into surplus, alongside what the Coalition is promising and the cost of its promises. To do otherwise would be a travesty.

I believe we ought to expect a more honest appraisal of both sides from the media as the election approaches, and that will tilt people towards the Government that gets things done, and away from the Coalition that won’t tell us what their policies are and what they will cost. We know that if the media ever gets round to forensically putting the policies and costings of Abbott and his frontbench under the microscope, their paltry, disingenuous house of cards will collapse.

We know that there is much leeway to make up after all the adverse publicity the media has given the Government, but believe me, a reversal is not just possible, it is probable.

The Government’s strong performance will be its main selling point come election time.

The scare campaign will peter out
Much of the antagonism against Julia Gillard has emanated from the carbon tax, that ‘toxic’ tax that she ‘promised’ she would not initiate. Apart from the ‘broken promise’ mantra that Tony Abbott and his sycophants have echoed unremittingly, his obscenely deceitful scaremongering has led people to believe that with the carbon tax the cost of electricity and everything else will go up, and up, and up, even before it starts. Whole industries will close down, ghost towns will cover the nation, Whyalla will be wiped out, and our economy will be decimated as our competitiveness plummets.

We know none of this will happen. We know that the compensation for ninety percent of the people for the extra costs generated by the tax will exceed the actual increase in costs, which will on average be less than ten dollars a week. We know pensioners will be well compensated with a substantial increase in their pensions, and the tax-free threshold will be raised to $18,000, relieving over a million taxpayers from submitting a tax return. Trade exposed industries will receive carbon credits that in many instances will effectively reduce the cost per tonne of carbon emitted from the set price of $23 to just a dollar or two.

In effect, both the people and industry will come to realize in the second half of this year that Tony Abbott has been running a giant hoax, spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt everywhere he speaks. The effects of this scaremongering has gone well beyond frightening people out of their wits about rising costs, it has been a major contributor to the fall in consumer and business confidence. Abbott swings his wrecking ball wildly and indiscriminately, careless of its potential to devastate our economy.

By the time the election arrives, the electorate will have become aware it has been sold a pup, and will turn on Abbott and his lies and deceit. As Abraham Lincoln said: “You may fool all of the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.” Abbott has fooled the people for too long; when they catch him out, they will punish him severely.

Time will be on Labor’s side as Abbott’s deceit is steadily exposed, and the electorate will turn savagely on him and the Coalition.

Deteriorating State Coalition governments
There has been much talk about the Labor brand being tarnished, even toxic, especially with big defeats in State elections in New South Wales and Queensland, and by one seat in the usually strong Labor state of Victoria. Since until recently there were wall-to wall Labor governments, it ought not surprise us that the people tired of Labor and looked for the alternative. When Federal Labor goes to the next election, there will be at least four State Coalition governments.

Quite apart from the Aussie aversion to the same party in power everywhere, these Coalition/LNP governments will have started to get up the nose of the electorate.

Barry O’Farrell’s government is already on the nose over its attrition of the public service. It is wrestling with corruption, has sacked parliamentary secretary Steve Cansdell, and is accused by Opposition Leader John Robertson of already breaking 200 promises.

The one-year-old Baillieu Government is under fire for its lacklustre performance, its poor record in job creation, and its savage cuts of $300 million to TAFE funding, especially in regional areas, with a projected loss of 2000 jobs. Ted Baillieu’s popularity has dropped sharply, the polls have narrowed, and one of his ministers, Geoff Shaw, is under investigation accused of using his parliamentary car on interstate trips for his hardware business.

Even in its first few months, Campbell Newman’s LNP Government has attracted criticism for its funding cuts, the scrapping of the Premier’s Literary Awards, and assuming tough strike-breaking powers.

In the West where Colin Barnett musters support every time he challenges the Federal Government over GST funding or the mining tax, or talks of secession, his Coalition Government is not in as good a shape as when it was elected.

Now none of this slippage is serious yet, or the misdemeanours hanging offenses, certainly not in our political system, but give these governments another eighteen months and the electorate will be tiring of them, and the Coalition/LNP brand will be tarnished, maybe even toxic.

The people will be aware that despite all the bold promises, these conservative governments are no better than the alternative. That will favour Labor.

The Great Abbott Unhinging
This will perhaps prove to be the most potent force in changing the balance of popularity and support for the two major parties.

Despite the good polls for the Coalition that the pundits attribute to Tony Abbott’s ‘brilliant’ strategy of unremitting negativity, obstructionism, and malevolent attacks on Julia Gillard, in a parliamentary sense he is an abject failure. He has not defeated one piece of legislation this term, and has caused the deferral of a tiny handful of bills, only with the help of the Greens. He has not landed a blow on Julia Gillard, who has wiped the floor with him in the House. With the help of Anthony Albanese she has frustrated his every attempt to subvert the business of the House. While she is calm, confident and assured, as well as witty, acerbic and scornful of him, he has become increasingly angry, frustrated, desperate, and ineffectual, almost frothing at the mouth with fury and venom as he sees his opportunity to seize power steadily slipping away.

His recent attacks have centered on the saga of Craig Thomson and Peter Slipper. While he would hardly have bothered had the Gillard Government had a substantial majority, he has attacked relentlessly on the grounds that the Gillard Government is illegitimate, minority government a failure, and he ought to be in The Lodge.

This week Abbott has seemingly become more and more unhinged as he rants and rages, moves motions to suspend standing and sessional orders, now nearly sixty times without success, and tries to bludgeon the Government into making moves, or the PM into making statements, all of his attempts unsuccessful. Yesterday’s grotesque performance in the House starkly exposed Abbott’s dark inner self, his desperation, his extreme viciousness.

He is regularly outmanoeuvered by Anthony Albanese, despite the best efforts of Abbott’s attack dog Christopher Pyne, who comes close to apoplexy again and again as he raises points of order or moves spurious motions. Abbott seems to have no concern for the time of parliamentarians, or the processes of the house in the pursuit of his malicious and destructive objectives.

In the matter of Craig Thomson he seems willing, even determined to trash our sacred conventions of the rule of law, the separation of powers, the presumption of innocence, and the proper processes of the parliament in the pursuit of his single-minded intent to upend Julia Gillard and her Government and seize power for himself and the Coalition. And despite his recent words of concern about Thomson’s health, Abbott’s behaviour is one of callous disregard as he pursues him relentlessly, no matter what the cost. Read what Barrie Cassidy had to say about this on The Drum in The alarm bells ring, but precious few heed them.

Abbott has gone over the top, and the further he goes the more he will alienate the electorate, which is giving strong signals that it is tired of this saga and wants it to disappear, wants it over. Yet, Abbott refuses to let go. It’s all he’s got and he will not retreat even as he sees events turning against him. He knows only aggression, only fight, just as I described in The pugilist politician written just ten days after his election. It will be his downfall. It is all he has to offer, and the people don’t want it. Even the media has begun to move on, realizing that the saga has many months, perhaps years to run, and the dramatic final outcome it is seeking is still far away. Barrie Cassidy expressed this view yesterday in his regular summing up of Federal politics on ABC 774 Melbourne radio. The media thrives on fast moving drama – when the pace slows, its interest wanes. Other dramas take over. But Abbott hangs on. He will find himself beating a hollow drum all alone.

It is Abbott’s behavior, a behavior he will not or cannot change, that will become his anchor, more and more firmly stuck in mud of his own creation, one that will hold him back while Julia Gillard and her Government steam away leaving him floundering in its wake.

Why then are some Labor stalwarts gloomy? I believe it is because they have become entangled in the web of deception perpetrated by the media about Labor’s prospects. Based largely on the polls, and propelled by a political agenda, that of removing the Gillard Government, the media has consistently predicted the annihilation of Labor at the next election, and is doing so to this day. Our stalwarts have been afflicted with the same infectious groupthink as have many journalists.

In past issues of The Political Sword I have asserted that although the Gillard Government is battling both a hostile media as well as a truculent Opposition, it will win the 2013 election. This piece gives some cogent reasons why I believe this to be so.

Forget the polls, observe the Gillard Government’s performance, watch the scare campaign peter out, detect how the State conservative governments wane in popularity and attract distrust, and above all watch Tony Abbott become unhinged, watch him self destruct as he overreaches, watch the vitriol he spews over Julia Gillard day after day wash back to poison him, watch his desperation reach an explosive crescendo that will destroy him. Then you will see why Julia Gillard will win in 2013.

Let’s embrace the optimism and determination of Bob Hawke and Paul Keating, and win.


What to you think?

Comments (183) -

May 25. 2012 05:59 PM

rocco

Thanks for another excellent analysis but I must take issue with your comment that poll commentary is easy journalism ... it isn't journalism at all. I can't wait for the day that Rupert loses control of his empire and the men who replace him get a look at the balance sheet and people like Shanahan are out of work when they close The Australian.

I was watching parliament yesterday and though I can't stand the man  Christopher Pyne was compulsive viewing ...like a train wreck you know you should look away but you can't ... after it's not often you think you are about see a man explode live on television.

rocco

May 25. 2012 05:59 PM

Patriciawa

I think you're right, Ad Astra.   Julia Gillard will survive.  Her government will be a long and successful one.  The ALP will survive too, recover strength and flourish again.

Tony Abbott is already unhinged and nearing self destruction.  Julia Gillard has been leaving him to do that while she, with her party, the Greens and the Independents have been beavering away negotiating, compromising, and successfully legislating for programs which improve our way of life.  This is a good government despite, maybe even because of, its depending on a hung parliament.

No doubt in his desperation to get her out of the Lodge before July 1st Abbott may try some new and nasty trick.  Whatever that might be, the Prime Minister has had his measure to date and will be on her guard.  

Patriciawa

May 25. 2012 06:01 PM

Catching up

Agree 100%. He has not has one win.  

Catching up

May 25. 2012 06:19 PM

nasking


This one is for Tony Abbott:

www.lifehack.org/.../big-phony.jpg?4c9b33


N'

nasking

May 25. 2012 06:41 PM

Ad astra

Rocco
Thank you for your kind comment.  You are right, commenting on polls is hardly journalism, but recall how hard Dennis Shanahan had to work to extract just a tiny morsel of good news for John Howard in the dying days of the his Government when it was dipping in the polls!

Patriciawa
I agree.  Today we are seeing the further unhinging of Tony Abbott even without the forum of the House.  He continues to go over the top more and more, and now Anthony Albanese is suggesting he may have contravened the crimes act with his urging of Craig Thomson to resign from parliament.  Although I expect nothing will come of it, I hope it puts into Abbott the fear of a charge being laid, and shuts him up.  Mind you, he is so frenzied that this might not be possible.

Ad astra

May 25. 2012 06:45 PM

Ad astra

Catching up
No, not one win - no wonder Abbott is frantic and consumed by rage.

Nasking
If the cap fits...and it does!

Ad astra

May 25. 2012 06:52 PM

nasking


Good stuff Ad.

It's useful you're going thru the Liberal State government records.

We could use an Aussie version of this:

rupert murdoch sucks
(Alternate title: "Clucking Fox Suckers," makes fun of some of the worst people in the U.S. associated with Murdoch, Fox News & the ultra right-wing.)


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nsoSReLGbDI

N'

nasking

May 25. 2012 06:52 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Thankyou Ad for another awesome article , your piece has just tied in with today's happenings.  Mr Abbott calling for Craig Thomson to resign, wonder did he ever think that CT might want his job.

What did you tell us Ad (watch Tony Abbott become unhinged, watch him self destruct as he overreaches, watch the vitriol ) Beginning now do you think, yes I do.

Seeing as my mouse was at a loose end waiting to re-post the Twitterati, it's gone and collected a bit more information for you:-

Twitterati for your enjoyment:

Commonwealth Consolidated Acts

CRIMES ACT 1914 - SECT 28

Interfering with political liberty
Any person who, by violence or by threats or intimidation of any kind, hinders or interferes with the free exercise or performance, by any other person, of any political right or duty, shall be guilty of an offence.

Penalty: Imprisonment for 3 years.

www.austlii.edu.au/.../s28.html

Glengyron‏
Tony Abbott's foot cannon wins again: "Abbott remarks on Thomson 'breach law'"
Abbott remarks on Thomson 'breach law' ,SMH
May 25, 2012 - 1:44PM
news.smh.com.au/.../...ach-law-20120525-1z9dx.html

abc730‏@abc730
Described as #Victoria’s Craig Thompson, could Lib Geoff Shaw bring down the Baillieu govt? Find out on #abc730 #Vic w @josietaylor tonight

Financial Review‏@FinancialReview
AFP check on Thomson death threats. [free] #auspol www.afr.com/.../afp_check_on_thomson_death_threats_U8PJQzXBgltGFpOqP8rmjI

www.afr.com/.../afp_check_on_thomson_death_threats_U8PJQzXBgltGFpOqP8rmjI

Paul Bongiorno‏
Doncha just love politics. Now it's Julia being cruel to Craig, 'cos she needs his vote. Compassion = kick him out of parlt

Helen Tzarimas‏@Tzarimas
Death threats against Craig Thomson have been referred to Federal police. #news

Margaret‏@Margy011
Abbott breaches Section 28 of the Crimes Act in attempting to suggest that `we'll lay off if you just resign from parliament' Big brave LOTO

SBS News‏@SBSNews
Australian Federal Police are inquiring into death threats sent in emails to federal MP Craig Thomson http://www.sbs.com.au/news/

Z☰N Digital ‏@z3n_digital
AFP have found several emails from the same account sending death threats to Craig Thomson & Staff .. Libs & supporters no morals #Auspol

news.com.au‏@news_com_au
AFP check on Thomson death threats: AUSTRALIAN Federal Police are inquiring into death threats against federal M... www.news.com.au/.../story-e6frfkvr-1226367271918

Mr Tiedt‏@mrtiedt
Oh, look, now Albo thinks that @TonyAbbottMHR is breaching the criminal law. news.smh.com.au/.../...ach-law-20120525-1z9dx.html

AustralianPoliticsTV‏@austpoliticstv
Channel 7: Abbott: Thomson should leave Parliament http://goo.gl/fb/nZOYw #auspol

Kangaroo Courtier‏@zackster
Thomson scorns Abbott's sympathy www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120525-1z9wn.html via @NationalTimesAU

he 100 Bus‏@The100Bus
HyperBrendan: Has Tony Abbott been arrested yet? #auspol

archiearchive‏@archiearchive
YESSSS! Abbott to be investigated for Crimes Act breach. RESIGN, YOU CRIMINAL! http://is.gd/zLkF0r#auspol

Karen Middleton‏
Window on pimping? RT @vexnews: Brothel baron on Thomson: "I think it’s bullshit...How can she remember back 7 yrs?" www.crikey.com.au/.../

Mike Kelly MP‏
Abbott wants 2 destroy Thompson whatever way he can 2 win power. He knows his days r numbered once CEF begins & sky stays up

david ewart‏@davidbewart
Craig Thomson’s so called “conspiracy theories”, are beginning to look more and more believable —www.independentaustralia.net/.../

SBS News‏@SBSNews
Analysis: Are #Thomson's phone-cloning claims plausible? www.sbs.com.au/.../Analysis-Are-Thomson-s-phone-cloning-claims-plausible

amanda meade‏@meadea
From Gold Coast Bulletin Thomson hooker latest www.goldcoast.com.au/.../..._tweed-byron-news.html

vexnews‏@vexnews
Campbell Newman an ‘employee basher' - Bob Katter http://bit.ly/Lluwdq #qldpol

Séan‏@esseeeayeenn
Senator Mary Jo Fisher asks taxpayers to pay costs for finding her guilty of theft and assault.
www.abc.net.au/.../4033742 Shameful

Bob Bain‏@bob_bain
Liberal Party scandals (continued) Lindsay pamphlet scandal en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsay_pamphlet_scandal - Jackie Kelly of "Kelly Country" 3:28pm

Rights at Work‏@thisworkinglife
Sky News: Union furious over foreign labour plan | http://bit.ly/Kl4RU1 #ausunions #securejobs

National Times‏@NationalTimesAU
When will Schapelle Corby be released? Read about the many hurdles she faces in Schapelle Corby's parole catch-22 www.theage.com.au/.../...tch22-20120525-1z9r3.html

Murdoch Watch‏@WatchMurdoch
How the 'Minister for Murdoch' made case for BSkyB deal http://bit.ly/KF6icZ via @ne

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

May 25. 2012 06:53 PM

nasking


Whoops...meant this vid:


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-g-vSQi3uVA

N'

nasking

May 25. 2012 07:54 PM

pjf

Good post AA, soundly argued. We can hope that all who value political propriety will hold their nerve.

My thinking on Bill Kelty is that he naively assumed that what was essentially throw-away advice don't blame the media was in the  spirit of the football coach who gees up his players by making them focus on their own play - i.e. the factors within their control - rather than lamenting the umpire's role in their predicament.

Where that analogy breaks down is that sports umpires/refereees are in almost all instances scrupulously fair to both sides, whereas the supposedly independent sideline commentators of the political spectacle (the MSM) have given plenty of evidence of their determination to kick a few goals for HM's Opposition.

pjf

May 25. 2012 08:13 PM

2353

AA - well written.  Don't forget that Howard was gone for all money 18 months out from the 91 election.  

Another thing that is never reported in polling is the Margin of Error.  While the "headline" figure might read 45-55, depending of the number of people who were asked the question, the real result "if a poll was to be held today" could be up to 10% different from the poll.  Generally the greater number of people polled, the better the accuracy.

While the unhinging of Pyne or Abbott on national TV would be riveting to watch Smile, I hope for their sake it doesn't happen.  I suspect that the LNP realises that from now to say October is the last gasp for the FUD campaign on carbon tax etc.  

You are correct, the ALP can win in a canter.  The CPRS needs an almost faultless introduction (and people will discover that like the GST it really doesn't make much difference to daily life), the ALP's standard response to questions about MPs that cross "moral" boundaries is to talk about Mirabella (the when the interviewer tries to steer them back to the preferred target, start to compare the "crimes" of the chosen LNP member) and frequent comment needs to be made about the "stellar" performance of Liberal Governments in NSW and Victoria.  I also suspect that sooner rather than later there will be evidence of mis-administration that the new LNP Government will not be able to sheet home (fairly or unfairly) to the previous Queensland ALP Government.  Albenese's performance this week is a promising start.

2353

May 25. 2012 08:19 PM

nasking


Conveniently, a poster over at the Cafe has linked to a Van Onselen @ The Australian article which is more "Things brewing against Gillard" stuff...and they mentioned the Newspoll coming up.

My response:

Which only gets me thinkin’ this escort bit related to Thomson is a setup…bigtime.

The timing comes across like typical Murdoch empire stuff…something you’d expect from The Sun in the UK…

If you ask me, the Murdoch empire and a con think tank came up with the tactics…handed it over to Channel Nine to do the dirty work so it wouldn’t be overly linked to them now their reputation is going down the drain.

They get Abbott and Pyne etc. to do the ranting fireworks…big attention-seekers…put the blame on Gillard by the end of the week…

Run this stuff FRENZY style on SKY (HIGH) NEWS…and with usual suspect shock jocks…

papers HYPE the Thomson stuff…and push the “Gillard soon to go” crap.

All attempts to manufacture perception to link to Newspoll…

Gets me thinking Murdoch is pretty desperate to get rid of this government.

He and his lot must be sh*t scared.

Not surprising when you think of what is being revealed over in the UK.

i reckon real SCRUTINY of his group over here will reveal rot.

They certainly don’t give a crap about democracy for one.

N’

nasking

May 25. 2012 08:44 PM

Sir Ian Crisp

I don't know about the other states but commentators here in NSW are saying that O'Farrell has such a huge majority that he doesn't have to do much in his first term. Time will tell.

Here is a bit more about the gift that keeps on giving.

Who was presumed innocent when Windsor pursued Anderson?
•  by: Dennis Shanahan, Political Editor

Consider this: a few years ago an MP rose in parliament and named two fellow parliamentarians as attempting to bribe him. The allegations had been made previously to a newspaper, without naming anyone, and they had been referred to the Australian Electoral Commission, which passed them to the Australian Federal Police.

When the MP stood and named the others the "due process" of the police investigation was not finished, the police had not made any findings and no charges were laid. Parliamentary privilege protected the accuser from defamation and the opposition used the allegations to pursue the government for question after question in parliament because a guilty finding would mean the end of two parliamentary careers and a scandal for the government.

The MP who made the allegations, first as a throwaway line to The Sunday Telegraph and repeated on local radio during the 2004 election campaign, was the member for New England, Tony Windsor.

After the ALP had referred the claims to the AEC and while the AFP had not concluded its processes, Windsor named the then deputy prime minister and arch political rival John Anderson, and Nationals senator Sandy Macdonald, in parliament as the two who had offered him a bribe, through a Tamworth businessman, not to contest the 2004 election.

Windsor returned to parliament to give an even more detailed account of the attempted inducement.

Windsor went further with the claims of alleged bribery while excusing the "messenger" of any "sin".

"I think it would be a great travesty of justice if the real villains in this case - the ones who are the architects of the message - were allowed to flutter off into the sunset rather than the messenger," Windsor said.

He also suggested that "if the Federal Police were doing their job correctly" they could ascertain the accuracy of details of his allegations.

"One of the reasons I have been reluctant to name names is that there are people who are going to be damaged by this who should not be and people who should be damaged will most probably fly away and hide behind the Chinese wall of an intermediary. I do not think that is fair and I do not think that is what the parliament would indicate as fair to an individual.

"I am proud that we have a parliament where people can actually raise these issues," he said, and added that he hoped the "players" would "consider their positions and tell the truth on this matter".
D Shanahan @ The Australian


What is Windsor’s position currently? Windsor said: "I think if we go down the slippery slope of prejudgment before the appropriate criminal or civil action is taken we do start to put ourselves out there as the judge and jury."

What do the good folk at TPS think of Windsor the whited sepulchre? They think he is marvellous, a true champion and protector of the rules and institutions of parliament. Mr Windsor is a man who holds very high principles. Here’s what they say:

Today, Oakeshott has already joined with Andrew Wilkie in a motion of censure of Thomson for being too slow to give an explanation, which sounds rather paltry, but perhaps it was the best he could muster.  On the other hand, Tony Windsor remains adamant that the parliament should not become a kangaroo court, and that any determination of guilt or otherwise should be left to the judicial system.

I think the independants will be pretty aware of the need to stop the Parliament being a Kangaroo court.

Evil Pyne abused parliamentary process to the limit today with an attack on Thomson. Talk about Coward's Castle. Run a story, challemging Thomson statement, with no right of real  reply   The Parl't is not the place for a trial.

This is taking the politics of destructiveness to a very dangerous level indeed, warns Albanese.

The electorate of Dobell have the right to be represented in Parliament. Certainly should not be subject to the whim of the opposition. Albanese has made this point constantly. The Parl't is not a court.

...Albanese in his response, that standing up to the Coalition yields positive results for the government in terms of its standing and morale.

A bit of good ol' country straight-talkin' from Tony Windsor as he loses patience with the Sky Australian Agenda panel, in particular Peter Van Onselen.

Tony Windsor for president!

Tony Windsor has just PvO a big slap. Get your facts right on #Slynews

It's so heartening to know that men like Tony Windsor are standing firm for us all.

Tony windsor has always impressed me.

The Honourable Tony Windsor MHR (ind.)...

His contribution to this society is beyond measure.

...I hope that Windsor and Oakeshott will still be invited to contribute. They have earned that right, I think.

My very high estimation of Tony Windsor just got higher.  We are all very fortunate that he was in the same position previously to call on his experience.  I call for this man to be our next Governor General or even our first President.

While I would also support Tony Windsor for GG, it'll never happen if the Leader of the Oppn ever gets the keys to The Lodge.

...Windsor seems to have a great sense of fairness that is isn't demonstrated by a number of the front bench of both major parties.

Sir Ian Crisp

May 25. 2012 09:00 PM

TalkTurkey

Lyn you are a Wonderess. Your Links extend everyone everywhere.

Dog what a busy little Mouse. What is (its?) name Please? Smile

And Ad astra you are a Wonder.

Bravo Generallissimo. You are the Blogosphere's personal Light on the Hill, I have never heard a rash word nor a downbeat one from you, I honour that so much.
You are inspirational.

One day somebody is going to have to collate and publish all your writings here. Poor somebody! and Thank You WebMonkey you have got Ad's site working perfectly now.  

I too will be heard to say only encouraging stuff about this amazing Government. I have no thought but what we will win because we must win. But I neither think myself sage nor particularly delusional nor altogether daft, I just look at what balls we have, we have a lot, and I know simply that our side has to put the best shine and spin and delivery on it, what else? Isn't it just too obvious that that is how we will win?!  I speak of my Eye of Time (d'apres Catweazle*), - and I know you have one Ad astra, every line you write displays it - which is really no more than a thoroughly-grokked assessment of where we are at, and what we must and will do.

Well I know what to do.

We must put the Fear of Dog into our countrymen.

Dog. Dog is real, flesh and blood. Dog needs a home and tucker here in Australia just like people, never mind "pie in the sky by-and-by when we die".
and for Dog's sake, it's not rocket science, every Dog knows what to do, Bark at 'em! Snarl at the intruders, and bark the sleepers awake! Waken people to the stark and dreadful choice which faces them, show how this Government has kept them in work and made the economy the envy of the world, improved every service and built so well . . . As opposed to the disgraceful inhuman lying fear-mongering Opposition who would bring back Workchoices and sell everyvestige of publicproperty in a trice. And fire tens of thousands of public servants.
And TRASH THE ECONOMY!

And Smash the NBN!


Well we won't let them! NO PASARAN!

It is our and the Government's task now to make the people get real about who has kept people in work and Dog in tucker on Dog's own Tuckerbox (good image there Labor publicists).

And if people can't understand the reality of Dog by the time we are finished with them then any hopes of a reasonably decent society are done for.

So we must make them see with their own Eye of Time.

So we will.  


*From Catweazle, the best kids>adolescents>adults>elders TV series there ever was and probably ever will be.


Good on you again Ad astra and Lyn, thank you very much.

VENCEREMOS! Smile

TalkTurkey

May 25. 2012 09:19 PM

nasking


D Shanahan @ The Australian

Hmmm...

Seems to me Sir Ian yer proving my point...the Murdoch media are desperate...going far beyond the call of duty...

they are knee-dip in this muck.

This goes beyond normal news reporting and commentary to complete and utter propaganda.

I reckon they'll sink in the muck.

N'

nasking

May 25. 2012 09:26 PM

nasking


Tom Watson: Blair and Brown should come clean over the News of the World

Tony Blair and Gordon Brown should come clean about their relationship with executives at the News of the World, claims Tom Watson, the deputy chairman of the Labour Party and leading phone hacking campaigner.


The outspoken member of the Culture, Media and Sport committee, which investigated the scandal, said that the former Prime Ministers should "take responsibility" for any contact they had with the likes of Rupert Murdoch and Rebekah Brooks.

He said that Blair and Brown should reveal all communications they had with the defunct paper and release all their private emails so that he can clear the air.

The MP for West Bromwich East made the comments in an interview published in the June edition of the monthly magazine Prospect.

He said: “Gordon Brown can speak for himself but I very clearly feel that he should take responsibility for the relationship, just like Tony Blair and David Cameron.”

He went on to call for Brown and Blair to “reveal all contact, including private emails” to clear the air.


www.telegraph.co.uk/.../...-News-of-the-World.html


I reckon Kevin Rudd and others like Bill Shorten and Tony Abbott should too...in regard to their relationship with Murdoch and News Ltd.

Same goes for unionists.

Any Laborite and unionist who does not is a traitor to their cause...and letting the Australian people down.

N'

nasking

May 25. 2012 09:31 PM

NormanK

SIC

Dennis wouldn't be guilty of selective quoting without proper context would he?

The SPEAKER—Order! It being 7.30 p.m., I propose the question:

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr WINDSOR (New England) (7.30 p.m.)—The House would be aware that the Australian Federal Police have referred an alleged breach of the Commonwealth Electoral Act to the Director of Public Prosecutions for determination relating to an inducement offered to me not to stand for re-election at the election just held. The House would also know that the Prime Minister has called on me to name the names of those people involved in the attempt to bribe me.

(my emphasis)

Howard challenged Windsor to name names.

What a shame - you went to all that trouble to gather up quotes from TPS contributors but really you shouldn't believe all that you read in the papers. At least one of those quotes is mine and I stand by it. Tony Windsor has more integrity than all of the current opposition front bench put together. That doesn't mean he's perfect - as far as I know he is human.

Credit to ruawake @ Poll Bludger.

Full speech available here:
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1273725

NormanK

May 25. 2012 09:49 PM

TalkTurkey

I love the Internet

Folks - presenting tonight
         for your delight

        Catweazle and Carrot

             in

            The EYE  
              
               of
              
                 TIME


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhJnlDLmqC8

TalkTurkey

May 25. 2012 11:25 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Apologies for the slow response.  We have house guests this weekend and we’ve just finished dinner.  I’ll not be around as much this weekend.

Thank you for your kind remarks.  It was an interesting coalescence of today’s events and that part of the new piece: ‘The Great Abbott Unhinging’.  If Abbott doesn’t settle down he may fly right off the handle and do himself serious damage.

Thank you for posting your expanded Twitterverse.  What interesting tweets they are.

Nasking
When I can get the videos to work I shall enjoy viewing them.

Ad astra

May 25. 2012 11:35 PM

Ad astra

pjf
I think you haven’t been here before, so welcome to the TPS family.  Do come again.  Thank you for your complimentary comment.  Holding one’s nerve is essential.  Some are not good at that.  Your explanation about why Bill Kelty said what he did is plausible.

2353
Thank you too for your kind remarks.  Indeed polls are a curse at this stage in the electoral cycle.   Why is it that columnists ‘forget’ how previous PMs recovered from poor poll positions.  With Newspoll coming out on Tuesday, with all the static around over the Craig Thomson saga we must expect another poor result.  We must ignore it, although every news outlet will pump it out endlessly, especially if it’s poor for Julia Gillard.

Ad astra

May 25. 2012 11:47 PM

Ad astra

Nasking
PvO is part of the Murdoch team along with Paul Kelly.  He would foster talk about ‘trouble brewing for JG’, just for the heck of it, and if he has advance knowledge of Newspoll, that would strengthen his arm.  Let’s see what he has to say tomorrow.

TT
What a wonderful supporter you are.  Thank you for your constant encouragement to me and to Lyn.

You are right you know, we have to start our own fear campaign, put fear into the minds of our countrymen and women of an Abbott Government.  And that is not false fear – it is very, very real, and terrifying.

Nasking, NormanK
Thank you for taking care of SIC.

Ad astra

May 25. 2012 11:51 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I'm calling it a day.

Ad astra

May 26. 2012 12:30 AM

Tom of Melbourne

” What is making Labor stalwarts gloomy?”

My I suggest that they’re probably disappointed that their successors are a pack of politically incompetent, dishonest hacks.

Tom of Melbourne

May 26. 2012 12:51 AM

Neil

At the end of the day Julia Gillard's main problem is that she is a terrible communicator. Her speeches are wooden, dull, monotoned and delivered with a twang that grates on people. Her voice is not authorative and every time she tries to make a point over the raucous shrieking of the opposition it goes up half an octive and sounds terrible.

Yes I know, how superficial. However in politics presentation is everything and the PM is incapable of selling pies at the footy. She has many admirable qualities. She is a clever administrator, conducts meetings well and is clearly an impressive person one-on-one. The way she out manouvered Abbott post election to stich up a minority government with the independents was very impressive.

But she is not an inspirational or authoritative leader. She lacks gravitas and the public sense that. Despite her substance she lacks the froth that creates political magic. It is now apparent she is unelectable despite the presence of an equally unelectable opposition leader who appears vicious and feral.

Can anyone imagine Abbott getting away with what he has done if Keating, Hawke or Howard was PM. No way. He would be carved up and fed to the sharks. But Gillard lacks the political and communication skills to nail him to the cross. That is the problem and there is no sugar coating it.

Unless the opinion polls improve pronto she's finished. You can't explain the disgraceful polling in all states, except Victoria, as a creation of the media or the popularity of Abbott. No, the problem is with the PM herself. That is an unavoidable conclusion.

I enjoyed reading your thread and many of your arguments were convincing. But I think you're wrong in concluding that Gillard will survive until the next election and ultimately triumph. I think that is fantasy. Blind Freddie the miner can see that her leadership is terminal.

The ALP will return to Rudd through sheer desperation unless the polls start to head North. At the moment the ALP would lose every seat in Queensland and WA, while losing up to 13 seats in NSW. MPs who face unemployment will act in self interest and return to the man they despise in the hope he can weave some magic to lift the ALP's primary vote.  

I think you're correct about the impact that conservative state governments will have on the coalition's vote federally. Clearly Abbott is desperate to force a poll before Newman, O'Farrell and Barnett eat away at the coalition's big lead in those states.

But at the end of the day Abbott has one thing going for him. He is not Julia Gillard and he knows the punters have stopped listening to her. He fears a Rudd resurrection because it would inevitably lead to a renewed interest in politics, unpredictability, and a short-term bounce in the polls.

I suspect a Rudd premeiership would also deliver us the election we were denied in 2010. Rudd v Turnbull. Turnbull is not without significant support in the coalition party room and he is clearly a more suitable leader of the Liberal party than the incumbent. Abbott has mortally wounded himself if the ALP can find a leader who can turn around the opinion polls.

We could be in for a wild ride over the next few months.

Neil

May 26. 2012 01:28 AM

Jason

Neil,
    What bullshit!Next you'll tell us the government can't go to an early election and leave a hostile senate in it's wake!
If the "public" hate the mining and carbon tax, Rudd ain't saving SFA as the "policy" still remains!
Rudd as with Abbott have a bit over a month to change things "if they can"! Now's the time to put up or shut up.

Jason

May 26. 2012 02:13 AM

LadyInRed

Thanks for the article Ad Astra.

Neil, Howard was short on persona. I think if the media gave Julia better press (like they did Howard) her voice etc. wouldn't be an issue. She hasn't been given a chance.

LadyInRed

May 29. 2012 12:38 AM

jane

I have been watching Tony Blair give evidence at the Levenson Inquiry and a couple of things he said have stood out to me.

One is, to precis, that the news should not be entertainment but should report the truth fairly and accurately and if an article is an opinion piece, it should be made absolutely clear.

The other was in relation to spin and reporting lies as fact. A Minister in his government had read in the press that Blair was going to sack him and decided to beat him to the punch. Blair was at pains to say he had no such intention and was unaware of the report.

The man tendered his resignation and on being asked why he was doing so, said it had been reported in the press. Blair was unable to convince him that Rupert's robots were lying and he insisted on resigning!

jane

May 29. 2012 12:50 AM

jane

Neil, Howard was as boring as bat sh!t. He lacked, and still lacks, any positive qualities, but at least you always knew when he was lying-as soon as he started talking.

jane

May 29. 2012 12:52 AM

Neil

LadyinRed,

I agree about the media's treatment of Gillard. She has been treated very badly and subjected to unfair and aggressive reporting. Look at the disrespected she was afforded when interviewed by Chris Uhlmann recently. Indeed the term "regime change" has been used to describe some elements of the print media. However the PM appears unable to "cut through" when rebutting a lot of this stuff. The government has a positive story to tell about the economy, avoiding the GFC, NBN, NDIS etc but appear unable to sell that story to their political advantage. As a result I believe the government's problems are not about substance but effective communication.

Jason, if what I've written is "bullshit" why have all the polls, public and private, remained toxic for the government since February 2011? Stop looking at this through rose coloured glasses. If you don't believe me look at the Newspoll before the March leadership challenge which saw the ALP primary vote rise 5% and the TCP vote increase by 6% on the back of misguided expectations that Rudd could become PM again. Then when the leadership was settled the polls dipped again to their current levels where they have remained ever since, bouncing around between 28% and 32% primary vote (depending on the pollster).

If that poll was an outlier it was an amazing coincidence - possible but highly unlikely because it was outside the margin of error (of 3%). You may not agree with me but the polling numbers have remained consistent for a long time.

History indicates that a governments that is in the polling doldrums for more than 18 months lose the approaching election badly (eg. 1983, 1996 and 2007). The only exception was 1993 when the ALP had 2 things going for it, PJK (the great communicator) and Fightback (a political gift). The LOTO may be the latter but they need to find the former.

Neil

May 29. 2012 01:27 AM

Casablanca

Jane,

You reported from the Levenson Inquiry 'that the news should not be entertainment but should report the truth fairly and accurately and if an article is an opinion piece, it should be made absolutely clear'.

I agree wholeheartedly.

The mistake that the ABC is making is turning every news and current affairs program on ABC1 & ABC24 into infotainment

The return of Leigh Sales to 7.30 was a breath of fresh air. Let's hope that she does not succumb to the mind-numbing infotainment style.

The new Shaun Micallef program, Mad as Hell was very good political satire. I enjoyed the laughs and look forward to more incisive satire in the series.

The Drum on ABC24 is generally pathetic because almost always the guests vie to be witty. It turns out as a mash of ill-informed comment, biassed comment and pathetic attempts at humour.  

The ABC needs to return to a policy of reporting the news with accuracy, opinion with appropriate disclosure and satire as infotainment.

The ABC's policy of balanced reporting and comment has been eroded by including too many politicians, too many Think Tankers and too many of the rent-a-mouth brigade. These are then mixed together in combinations that tend to produce shouting and confusion rather than intellectual rigour and enlightenment.

Casablanca

May 29. 2012 06:42 AM

Crowey

Neil of Sydney???

As far as infrastructure,public amenities(health, education,childcare,nursing homes,TAFE) your buddy the man of tissue Howard was a NO NO man, and believe you me if Abbott were to get the keys to Kirribilli House, the general public would see a bleak and devastating crash in our lifestyle over the following years under a future LNP Government.

Crowey

May 29. 2012 07:45 AM

Psyclaw

Swordsters
At last...... we're off and running again.

In the interim I visited PB and frankly am amazed at the group think there.

After the 7.30 Report last night there developed a theme that Leigh Sales was not much better than Uhllman.that she let Justice Ross get away with "murder", that Justice Ross was evasive nad protective of his FWA colleagues and that the whole I/V showed how pathological FWA is.

Some of the comments were made by hi profile PBers who admitted at the time they hadn't seen the program.

Have a look here.

www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3512917.htm

Read the text for yourself. I think Roos J gave perfectly reasonable answers. But you have to actually read what he said.

He admitted that the FWA reputation was trashed by the matter, that the investigation took too long, that he has plans within his brief to fix up what he can,  and of crucial importance he said that members of FWA should not engage in the public debate.

The context of this was the release of docs by 7.30 showing that Michael Lawler had in fact written to NSW police "in his private capacity" (Lawler's words) to dob in Michael Williamson.

What say you all? IMHO Ms Sales was a marked improvement on Uhllman. As the text shows, she asked the relevant questions, but in a polite, not "gotcha" tone.

Psyclaw

May 29. 2012 07:46 AM

Psyclaw

Of course it's Justice Ross

Psyclaw

May 29. 2012 08:15 AM

2353

Welcome back AA - hope the "break" wasn't too dramatic.

2353

May 29. 2012 08:28 AM

jaycee

I though Leigh Sales even with her seemingly sporting a sore throat(?) a better proposition than ..the other bloke! Agreed, she could have pushed the FWA. chief a damn sight more..but then there appears to be "those" within the ABC. who wish to maintain some sort of conservative status quo. However, it all seems to be unravelling for the FWA. heirarchy despite the MSM. doing its' best to keep the story in check....thank you independant blog news sites!!

jaycee

May 29. 2012 09:47 AM

Jason

Neil,
    The "polls" are one indicator of things not the only indicator, and yes IF an election were to be held today Labor would be defeated,but there is no election today, and the only numbers I'd be worried about if I was the coalition are these

11 Stitting days left until 1 July & 6 weeks Winter Recess then the coalition have to start demonstrating how the "sky" has fallen in!

Jason

May 29. 2012 09:55 AM

LadyInRed

Neil, I think the worst thing Labor could do is change leaders. I note what you say. I think todays polls tell it all. While the PM has has to fight of Abbott she will never get her message out. He gets much more media space and his negative campaign IS working against the PM. BUT, more importantly it is also working against him. So, if he wants to keep the continued support of his party AND get the keys to the lodge he is going to have to back off. If he backs off then maybe we will get some clearer air to get the message you so rightly point out that is not getting out there.

LadyInRed

May 29. 2012 10:04 AM

Min

Great to see TPS back in action.  Jason, I think that the closer to we come to the election the more that people might consider what sort of Prime Minister are we going to have should Tony Abbott be elected.

Min

May 29. 2012 10:20 AM

TalkTurkey

Thank you WebMonkey, for getting us back online, I'm sorry I jinxed the site on the 25th at 9.00pm by saying : -

Thank You WebMonkey you have got Ad's site working perfectly now.  

Or could it have been Catweazle playing a magic trick on us?

Here he is again, if you've never watched any Catweazle DO!

Catweazle and Carrot in

         The EYE of TIME!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhJnlDLmqC8

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


46%-54% eh?! Smile

That means we need to keep all the votes we have, plus bring 1 in every 10.4 of theirs our way, to give us 51%.

It will not be a doddle, but we will do it in style.
Abbortt is crumbling on cue.
Gee I am thinking of investing a serious lump on cash on Labor's future, where can I get 5:1 or better?

The MSM seem rather thoughtful, chastened even, don't they!
Not quite so cocky and contemptuous of *J*U*L*I*A*, Abbortt must be climbing the walls now, he'll be gone before Crispmess, or if he isn't, good for us!

And *J*U*L*I*A* climbing over Abbortt, never to sink below him again!

Be afraid Abborttians!

Labor's team is like unto Black Harry's Bullock team: -

Up mountains, straining to the full,

Each poler plays his part---

The sullen, stubborn, bullock-pull

That breaks a horse's heart.


VENCEREMOS!




TalkTurkey

May 29. 2012 10:33 AM

NormanK

Psyclaw

I'm with you on the Justice Ross interview. It was a well-conducted interview with both sides making their points clearly. The telling response from Ross with regard to Lawler having authored a complaint to the police about internal activities in the HSU indicated to me that he was nudging interested parties into pressuring the parliament to investigate if they felt there was any substance to the allegations of conflict of interest. He said:

IAIN ROSS: Well, I've not seen any of those matters, Leigh. Can I make two general points? As I put to the Senate committee this morning, workplace relations is a contentious field. There is often a vigorous debate about where the appropriate balance lies between the interests of employees, employers and their representatives. I don't think it's appropriate for either myself as president or any member of Fair Work Australia to enter into that public debate. I propose to limit my contribution to those matters that affect the independence and standing of the tribunal and I'll continue to do that. And the second point is, as I've said, it is not a matter for me to investigate or discipline a member of Fair Work Australia. That is not the function that I have under the statute. That is a matter for Parliament.

This was one of three times that he indicated that the parliament was the only appropriate body to follow up such allegations. I don't think he protected Lawler at all, in fact he was very careful to remain impartial.

Quite often the complaint is made that public discussion of serious issues has become polarised - "you're either for us or against us" for example and I'm one of the first to make this complaint. It seems that when someone such as Justice Ross quite rightly refuses to take sides then it becomes necessary to project on to him some form of bias thereby forcing him into a polarised position. PB seems to have done that by insisting that he protected Lawler by not condemning him or at least launching an investigation. I might also be guilty of projection by suggesting that I felt Ross was 'nudging' interested parties to pressure the parliament if they want more action on Lawler. Never-the-less that is how I heard it. The most telling statement being:

I don't think it's appropriate for ..... any member of Fair Work Australia to enter into that public debate.

That's not a vote of confidence in Lawler's actions.

This episode may have a long way to run yet.

www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3512917.htm

NormanK

May 29. 2012 10:33 AM

Lyn

TODAY’S LINKS

Julia Gillard Prime Minister of the 43rd Australian Government. And Here to Stay, Peter, Aussie Views News
She’s beaten Kevin Rudd twice and Tony Abbott most of the time. She’s passed the halfway mark and is looking coolBeing brainwashed is surprisingly non-painful. Well in Australia it is. I am not talking here about brainwashing accompanied by incarceration and torture. This is the slow form. Daily rinses of repeated slogans. In the media. On the telly. In the papers if you still read them or their newer flashy digital replacements.
www.aussieviewsnews.com/.../

Who Replaces Tony Abbott, Archie, Archiearchive
With his bullying style and erratic policy announcements, there seems to be a danger that the electorate will soon grow tired of this deeply flawed man. The unlosable 2013 election may be in unexpected doubt. Newspoll this coming week is tipped to show a big swing against the Coalition.
archiearchive.wordpress.com/.../

No, it’s not 2GB it’s ABC Local radio,  The ABC has Gone to Hell
Ian McNamara: “It was supposed to be Julia Gillard’s last gasp” … “It’s all spin, you’ve got to try and put the best spin on everything, whether it’s a Budget or whatever it is.”Guest: “There hasn’t been much of a positive reaction in the polls .. the stockmarket was largely oblivious to it.”
the-abc-has-gone-to-hell.tumblr.com/.../no-its-not-2gb-its-abc-local-radio

Tony Abbott – concern troll, Shouting at the Void
To the turn around in the face of this sudden national concern for Craig Thomson’s mental health and suggest that the only solution for him to leave parliament was the most sickening form of concern trolling I have seen in Australian political life. Abbott, who is far and away most responsible for making Craig Thomson a marked man,
shoutingatthevoid.wordpress.com/.../

A smoking gun in the Thomson vs Media saga- Clarence Girl, North Coast Voices
Herald-Sun.Does this set of interlocking relationships with Murdoch's minions go some way to explaining why large slabs of the meeja uncritically swallow whole Abbott & Co’s vitriol concerning this MP?Might it also explain why the veracity of this 2011 2UE954 News Talk image of Thomson's
northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/.../...-saga.html

“If the carbon tax is so small, why do they overcompensate low income families, Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery
Pensioners may not use the same electricity use as a family of five, but don’t get a lot of income either. And since electricity is sold by the kW, they pay for what they use. In the last 15 years, rises in utilities have had a huge impact in disposable income to some middle and low income families. All because of the cost involved in delivering the electricity to the consumer. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/

The Last Days Of The Liberals (1): The Hungry Brontosaurus Factor, Bob Ellis
This means, must mean, the Newspoll if fairly conducted this weekend will show a shift to Labor from 45 to 47 or 48, and a scramble for the Liberals’ leadership after Abbott’s arraignment, if it happens, for breaches of the Crimes Act, between Morrison and Turnbull with the odds on Morrison. Schapelle’s release will add two more percent and the Liberals will panic.
www.ellistabletalk.com/.../

If it’s good news for Labor, it must be more leadership challenge blah blah blah, Turn Left 2013

This is never going to end. The rumour-storm cycle will get more and more intense, until the speculation, innuendo, assumption, spin, gossip, insinuation flies so fast that before one lot of stories are denied the next lot have already begun

turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

Why getting Australians into mining jobs doesn’t add up, Bernard Keane, Crikey
Moving your family to a town adjacent to a major mining project is problematic: wages are likely to be high, but so too will housing costs, cancelling out the benefits of any income rise. Ordinary household supplies will also be more expensive. Access to childcare or education choices for your kids is likely to be very limited, as will health-care options.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Thomson and Jackson 5: Sticky fingers, Independent Australia
She spoke out not to get Craig Thomson MP, but to clean up the HSU, she said. But in a stunning IA exclusive, Peter Wicks uncovers compelling documentary evidence that suggests HSU “whistleblower” Kathy Jackson may herself have been misappropriating Union funds.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

How the Right wins by cheating, Bob Ellis, Independent Australia
Craig’s brief press conference on Thursday was construed by the newly alerted media. He was actually quite normal — calm, concise and to the point. And all the media said he was mad, and ‘at breaking point’, and likely to kill himself. Abbott this morning pretended it was a kindness when he said he should he resign his seat and give the Liberals power. Just trying to help out, mate.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

Murder by Bullying-, Archie, Archiearchive
From the outside it seems that regardless of the result and the warnings from others of a gentler disposition, Abbott will keep pushing Thomson until he goes over the edge.Thomson out of the Parliament. That is what he wants. And it seems any damage to Craig Thomson is irrelevant.
archiearchive.wordpress.com/.../

Dissecting A Media Beat Up – The MP and the Channel 7 reporter, and the Ch 7 reporter admits making it up, Turn Left 2013So
the story that the Prime Minister had lost support, turns out, was completely made up by the channel 7 crew. First Sarah says, ‘he told  turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

Going too far , Gary Sauer- Thompson , Public Opinion
Though the Thomson affair is unlikely to deliver Abbott the election he wants now that will deliver him the power he needs to roll back the reforms the affair indicates just how deeply wehave entered into world of bitterly adversarial politics. It is a media world where politics, like sport, is now part of the entertainment industry,
www.sauer-thompson.com/.../going-too-far.php

Penberthy: “A significant escalation in the ugliness”, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison
News Ltd papers have shamelessly fanned the flames of hysteria, just as much as Tony Abbott has. And this is the result. To disingenuously pretend it’s got nothing to do with News Ltd’s work over the past four years – I’d like to say their breathtaking, shameless audacity astonishes me.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

The Thomson Saga- Just how unlucky can a person be-, Clarence Girl,North Coast Voices
However, not quite as inebriated as Channel Nine's A Current Affair which appears to be relying on the memory of a former sex worker, who allegedly met a union official once seven years ago (before he lost weight, his hair went gray and that bald patch developed) and was willing to indentify him this year from a photograph - in exchange for an undisclosed payment.
northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/.../...y-can.html

Talking Points: The Australian’s cosy little club of groupthinkers
don’t know if there’s a pattern here, but the letters page of The Australian is beginning to look like a cosy club to me. A club that has a particular ideological dress code and maybe even a secret handshake.One might even imagine this cosy little club has a name: Groupthink.Perhaps as a Baptist pastor, Mr Minge has God on his side.
ethicalmartini.wordpress.com/.../

Why is Gina importing workers direct- Because we won't go there, Peter Martin
Why was Gina Rinehart given special government approval to bring around 1700 foreign construction workers to Western Australia’s remote Pilbra? Because Australians won’t go there - not in big numbers, no matter how big the mining
www.petermartin.com.au/.../...-workers-direct.html

Margaret Simons and the Australia, Robert Manne, The Monthly
By now the Australian had devoted two front page stories, three additional stories or comments, a ‘Cut and Paste’ and an editorial—in total more than 6,000 words—to the Margaret Simons “failure to disclose/ conflict of interest” canard. If a Walkley Award were given to the most egregious non-story of the year, the Australian’s Simons saga would be a short priced favourite and a very worthy winner.
www.themonthly.com.au/blog-margaret-simons-and-australian-robert-manne-5235

Good News For Oz, Bad News For Tony, Patriciawa, Polliepomes
Even after their media blitz, helping Tony Abbott do his worst, Julia Gillard is holding her own as Prime Minister. She is still there and leading a government which is showing the world how to run an economy.I wonder how Tony Abbott feels today?
polliepomes.wordpress.com/.../

TODAY’S FRONT PAGES
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 29 May 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Video

Polling analyst Andrew Catsaras shares his monthly look at the opinion polls with Insiders.
www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2012/s3511902.htm

Lyn

May 29. 2012 10:34 AM

Ad astra reply

Folks
Apologies for the interruption to TPS, which was due to a major hardware failure in the TPS server, which required the technical expertise of Web Monkey to migrate all the TPS data onto another server.

Some of you have been able to get online to post comments before me, as the new DNS numbers take a while before they are fully registered to all places.

I hope we will have no further troubles, and to avoid interruptions in the future we may go to cloud computing.  That's for another day.

It's good to see you back again.  I'm on the road at present - I'll be back later.

Ad astra reply

May 29. 2012 10:48 AM

NormanK

Sincere thanks to Web Monkey.

NormanK

May 29. 2012 10:52 AM

TalkTurkey

Min,
and good to see you here too.

I found a Rainbow Lorikeet with a freshly broken wing on Kangaroo Island in 1979, (she had obviously flown into a single thin telegraph wire just above where she was in the scrub.) I kept her until she died in 2006! I bought her a mate from a petshop within the first few months, she was called Rainbow, he was Hawkeye, they fell in love in one second! They had 17 youngsters in the first 12 yeare, he died but she lived on in my big aviary with some of her kids, she never flew again but gee she had indomitable spirit! She escaped many times and I would have to climb scary trees to get her down . . . but she was good for my state of mind always.  

TalkTurkey

May 29. 2012 11:26 AM

2353

NormanK said Sincere thanks to Web Monkey.

Couldn't agree more.  How do we contribute to the "Buy Web Monkey a beer fund"?  He deserves a number of them (or whatever his favourite drink is).

2353

May 29. 2012 11:37 AM

LadyInRed

Lynn thank you so much for the links - still going through them but this line from Bob Ellis on Gina cracked me up:

Because it is not class warfare to want some of that big woman’s pie, it is a parched yearning for justice; it is simple arithmetic; it is common sense.

Though I don't entirely agree with his take on the imported labor. The real question no-one seems to be asking is "who is willing to go the Pilbara?". As long as the imported labor get the same rights, conditions and pay then I see no advantage to imported labor or Aussie labor. But I do agree that the libs are caught on this one - they haven't been allowed to  say 'YES' for so long the public must be aggoged that Abbott even knows how to atrticulate the word!

aahh ahh Yeeee - whats that last letter again... ah ah look aah... I know aaah yeeees - there got it out.

LadyInRed

May 29. 2012 11:45 AM

Patriciawa

Welcome back, Ad Astra!   Thank you, Web Monkey!  A very special thank you too,  Lyn, for hanging in there, carrying on with your wonderful work and being ready with Lyn's Links the minute The Political Sword was operational again!  Well done!

Patriciawa

May 29. 2012 11:55 AM

jaycee

As someone who has worked in the Pilbara in the early days of the iron ore projects, when it was called "Hammersley Iron", a mostly govt' owned and financed venture till it was sold for a song by the WA.Liberal govt' in the eighties(?)to one of their "mates" (Western mining I believe). I tell you; it is a damn cruel enviroment. When it is hot, it is BLISTERING!...it is lonely, it is socially cold and isolating..."No place for old men", not a place I'd recommend for young men either. As a matter of fact, I'd suggest that those "guest workers" wouldn't go there but for the desperation in their own countries.

jaycee

May 29. 2012 12:16 PM

TalkTurkey

Narrow the eyes!
Set the Jaw!
Double the Fist!
For this is WAR!

Lyn your links have a new feel to them today. Powerful.


Craig Thomson cheers to you,
You have done great damage to Abbortt, what splendid poetic justice!
May it comfort and sustain you to realize that through your persecution and near-martyrdom you have made many Australians clutch at decency anew.

I do not believe that you have ever done anything to make me despise you as I despise Abbortt and his vicious crew.

Hang in Comrade, I do not revile thee.

Barry Humphries can drop dead though afa I'm concerned.
Neither he nor I have enough years left for me to forgive him for what he said last night on Q&A. No question of CT's guilt? Says who?

www.abc.net.au/.../|Q&A_AdWords_:%2Bq%26a_b_s_19274625319___1s3&gclid=CIzkpfC0pLACFVGZpAodLj2OWA#











1

TalkTurkey

May 29. 2012 12:28 PM

Patriciawa

Psyclaw, I read your comments at PB about 7.30 and Fair Work Australia and agreed with you wholeheartedly.  My instinct was to write something, but I pulled back knowing how quickly their thread moves on. It's a bit like whistling in the wind, commenting over there!   BB is among the few of my PB favorites whose quality posts have real impact, but even his ultimately have an ephemeral  quality, and don't get the attention they often deserve.

But perhaps it's just as well over the last few days because he has been exceptionally grumpy and sometimes well off the mark.   His comments on last night's Q&A are a case in point. He condemns the whole show.  I did agree with him about the sweeping condemnation of Craig Thomson.  Where was the presumption of innocence, which they had been invited to comment on?  Tony Jones was a very poor moderator there, failing to bring them back to the question asked.  I also agreed with BB about the cruelty of the very personal attacks on Gina Rinehart which were unfair and insensitive.

Even as I write I am thinking that perhap's he is right, after all.  Appalling isn’t it, that even with a panel of fine satirists, writers and actors not one person conceded to Craig Thomson that right to the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. All of the men condemned him and enjoyed lots of laughter at his expense, even though part of the question addressed to the panel was about just that – the assumption of innocence. Miriam Margolyes who was brilliant, fair and funny throughout on most other questions had little chance to add anything to an aside about his relationships with women which she seemed to think were questionable. Jacqui Weaver expressed sympathy for him since he seemed to be suffering great anguish, no matter what he was alleged to have done, and hoped he wouldn’t top himself! But both of these lovely women ultimately joined in the general hilarity around the idea of the $60, 000 price tag prostitute and A Current Affair somehow having some original and clinching means of ID to prove poor CT guilty once and for all.

That did spoil what should otherwise have been a great program for me in which it was also a relief not to have unfair denigration of our Prime Minister.  That alone, followed by reading the very balanced reporting of the latest Newspoll at www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226370575432 made me inclined to forget that sour note which was too much for BB.

Patriciawa

May 29. 2012 01:47 PM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

May 29. 2012 01:55 PM

Ad astra

Neil
Thank you for your thoughtful contribution at 12.51 am 26 May, and for your encouraging remarks.  This is the first chance I have had to respond. There are some points upon which I would like to comment:

In your first paragraph you say Julia Gillard is ‘a terrible communicator’, and you cite her voice and delivery as the reason.

From what I have heard and read, many would agree with you.  But this is but anecdotal evidence.  I cannot recall any pollster specifically asking a well-phrased question about her voice and delivery, so we have no objective evidence that your view is widely held.  It may be; we simply don’t know, unless you are aware of an objective study of this issue to which you can refer us.

A proper question would be not to ask if Julia Gillard’s voice and delivery grated, as that would be leading question that would evoke a predictable response.  A suitable question might read: “Critics of Julia Gillard have criticized her voice and delivery.  Whether or not you feel the same, would her manner of speaking be sufficient by itself to deter you from voting for her?”  This might give us an objective handle not on whether her voice grated, which in itself is immaterial, but whether her voice had the effect of turning voters away from voting for her.

Personally, I don’t find her voice unpleasant.  We all know that she has a pronounced Aussie twang, just as Bob Hawke had a gravelly voice.  She often repeats a word or phrase that I myself would not repeat if I were speaking; we all have our style.  But there is nothing in her manner of speaking that would cause me to say – I’ll never vote for Julia Gillard because her voice grates.  As you say, that would be ‘superficial’.  Now some might, but we don’t know what proportion of the voters would be so superficial, and, as far as I’m aware, nobody has bothered to find out objectively.

I agree that presentation in politics is very important, but I think you are going over the top when you suggest Julia couldn’t sell pies at the footy.  Apart from that assertion being unnecessarily down-putting, I feel confident she would be a great pie seller with her ‘footy’ accent.  I know it’s also anecdotal, but from what we see of her in informal situations (that is apart from press conferences and set speeches) she is delightful, personable, attentive, respectful, witty and good humoured.  Why not trumpet those interpersonal attributes?

What is most important in communication is the message. We have said over and again here on TPS that the PM’s media unit has let her down by not providing her with better crafted messages.  If it were to do that, the PM’s impact would rise sharply, irrespective of her voice.

You follow what many commentators say when you assert that she is not an inspirational or authoritative leader.  That is your view.  I find her both inspirational and authoritative.  Inspirational, in that she has been able to carry out her productive reform agenda despite more malice than I can ever remember being directed at a political leader, by Tony Abbott, Christopher Pyne and the media, incessantly, day after day, week after week.  Any leader that can accomplish so much while under constant fire, inspires me.  Please tell us what PM Gillard would have to do for you to regard her as inspirational.  I know many commentators say the same as you, but they never try to define ‘inspirational’.  What are they looking for?  A succession of Gettysburg addresses?  And if she delivered them, would they say – ‘My, that was inspirational’?  If they had been present at Gettysburg, how would they have reported Lincoln’s address?  Tell us whom you believe has the ‘froth that makes political magic’.

I find her authoritative.  I am regularly impressed with the breadth of her knowledge, the extent to which she is across multiple matters, particularly at pressers when any question might be thrown at her.  Name any contemporary politician whom you believe is more authoritative?  Individual ministers may be possessed of deeper knowledge in their portfolios, but none have the breadth of knowledge that PM Gillard does, breadth that, in my view, makes her authoritative.

You conclude that the deficiencies you name make her ‘unelectable’.  What a radical statement that is.  It is your opinion, and several pundits would agree, but as Andrew Catsaras said on Insiders this past Sunday, even the bookmakers give her a 20% chance – that does not denote being unelectable?  This is what he said: ”… this electoral cycle still has a fair way to play out. And while currently the Coalition is clearly very well placed and the betting markets have estimated its chance of winning the next federal election at 80 per cent and the ALP at only 20 per cent, it's not 100 per cent to zero.

“To quote John Howard, "there is no such thing as an unwinnable election anymore than there is such a thing as an unlosable election." The next federal election will not be pre-determined by the polls of today or the opinions of commentators. It will be determined by the voters in 18 months times. (My emphasis.)

“And because it is 18 months away and not 18 minutes, the biggest mistake the Coalition could now make is to believe it cannot possibly lose the next federal election. And the biggest mistake the ALP could make is to believe that it cannot possibly win it.”


So let’s not use nihilistic terms such as ‘unelectable’.

You assert that Hawke, Keating and Howard would not have ‘Abbott getting away with what he has done’.   Have you never watched QT where Julia Gillard regularly carves Abbott up, where she does ‘nail him to the cross’?

You are entitled to your views of course, but you need to know that everyone else does not necessarily share them.  Asserting is not enough to make things true.

You say: ”Unless the opinion polls improve pronto she's finished.” Re-read what Andrew Catsaras said.  There may be those within Labor ranks who feverishly look at the polls, even although we know they are not predictive so far from an election.  Let’s not join that group of Nervous Nellies!  You too seem to have fallen for the catch-cry: ‘If an election were to be held today, the Government would lose in a landslide’; but it is not being held today!

You say: ”Blind Freddie the miner can see that her leadership is terminal.”  Maybe Freddie’s blindness is his problem.  I do not see it as terminal.  How are you so certain?  

You join the chorus that the people ‘have stopped listening to her’.  That is simply an assertion.  There is no objective evidence that this is so, even if the pundits insist it is.  Simply saying this is the case does not make it true.

You canvass a return to Kevin Rudd as PM.  That is not impossible; nothing much is impossible in politics.  In my view that is highly improbable, and were it to happen, success in the election would not be assured.  In my opinion that would make matters worse with so many colleagues unwilling ever to work again with Rudd.

You seem to have adopted the same nihilistic approach to our PM that many journalists have with words like: ‘a terrible communicator’, ‘not inspirational or authoritative’, ‘lacks gravitas’, ‘unelectable’, ‘terminal, ‘stopped listening to her’, ‘a Rudd resurrection’.

The way you write suggests you are a Labor supporter.  Do you think it helps the Labor cause to be so negative about the leader, to echo what journalists who seek Julia Gillard’s political demise have to say?  Doesn’t that simply aid and abet the push to oust her?  What Labor needs is supporters who are positive and confident, supporters willing to back Labor’s elected leader, to ignore the polls and what the ‘experts’ have to say about their dire message for Labor, to discount the daily utterances of columnists whose object it to pull our PM down.

You are, like all of us, entitled to your opinion, but when it is challenged, as I have done today, give us some objective data to prove your points, rather than simply regurgitating the hearsay and groupthink that abounds among our political commentators.

Ad astra

May 29. 2012 02:01 PM

DMW

Silly me I thought Roy Hill was some bloke from a right wing think tank messing with the government's mind.

Lyn's link to Bernard Keanes Crikey piece (thanks tweetie) sheds some light on the challenges of get workers into remote areas and having been a FIFO worker and worked a long way from home I know it is a tough life.

Enterprise Migration Agreements (EMA's) are a policy tool I have not been across or thought to much about until now and I can forsee many challenges in gaining 'popular' acceptance of them. Fortunately an academic has come to my rescue and written a very informative article on the topic.

Enterprise Migration Agreements strike the right balance in a tricky policy area  Chris Wright @TheConversation
theconversation.edu.au/enterprise-migration-agreements-strike-the-right-balance-in-a-tricky-policy-area-7288

We are blessed to have The Conversation providing us with informed and non-partisan information on hot topics. Long may it publish.

DMW

May 29. 2012 02:51 PM

nasking

Back up eh? Excellent. Cheers Web Monkey!

This revealing story on Media Watch last night tells you how desperate and full of it our media is these days:


Woman of many hats
... every day our newspapers find real people to illustrate the stories they’re telling. Ever wonder how they do it?

Take, for instance, page two of the Melbourne Herald Sun two months ago:


Mortgages and household costs stretch family budgets

— Herald Sun, 28th March, 2012


Read The Herald Sun article

Lisa Edwards and her family were the real-life examples...


Last year the Point Cook mum... reined in grocery bills and wayward spending. This year she sold the family's investment property...

— Herald Sun, 28th March, 2012


Tough times indeed. But then just weeks later, Seven’s Today Tonight ran a segment in which a struggling family swapped lives with a family living high on the hog. And who’s this...


Reporter: Lisa Edwards lives the good life, dining out and beauty treatments are regular treats. Their monster 6 bedroom house boasting a swimming pool and 3D TV.

— Channel Seven, Today Tonight, 16th May, 2012


Same Lisa Edwards. Same family. In March...


We are feeling the pinch

— Herald Sun, 28th March, 2012


And in May...


Reporter: You’re not used to budgeting like this?

Lisa Edwards: No I’m not I usually walk in and buy whatever...

— Channel Seven, Today Tonight, 16th May, 2012


What’s going on? The answer lies here...


Lisa owns a talent agency, her husband Gino is an engineer...

— Channel Seven, Today Tonight, 16th May, 2012


‘A talent agency’. And, as she told Media Watch...


Today Tonight cold called my agency and this is how I became involved ...

— Lisa Edwards, 18th May, 2012

More here:

www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3512876.htm


And that's why the public don't trust them.

N'

nasking

May 29. 2012 03:03 PM

nasking


Telling colleagues their job would not be over until the election was won, Mr Abbott observed: "Gillard won't lie down and die, and where there's life, there's fight."

Isn't Abbott a nice bloke?

Perhaps with the language he uses he'd be more suited to the boxing ring than a political arena?

As time goes on he reminds me more and more of someone punch drunk. Dopey comments amidst moments of raving and lunacy...sometimes dazed and stupified (recall the Ch. 7 interview where he shook and couldn't answer).

I know one thing...he ain't suitable for the PMship.

N'

nasking

May 29. 2012 03:21 PM

LadyInRed

Ad astra your reply to Neil is a well considered one. I believe the PM can do this. To beat Abbott is absolutely doable. Dropping the PM would be a disaster after all she has stood up to, all she has achieved. And what she has achieved is considerable, to dump her would be a travesty. I don't find her voice grating, my partner doesn't like it but he doesn't hold it against her in any way. I love it when she gets an oppotunity to smile - her face really lights up - its delightful to see. I think she is a real statesperson.

LadyInRed

May 29. 2012 03:29 PM

LadyInRed

nasking - Abbott is a nasty piece of work thats for sure. Glad to see its not really working for him. He is becoming increasingly unhinged.

Pop on the Yellow vesty!

aah I know the ah australian ah people ah ah are sick ah and ah tired and ah ah (lick the lips) (the Abbott smirk) and I uhm (look into the camera - smirk some more) - tiresome and boring and pathetic.

LadyInRed

May 29. 2012 04:02 PM

Casablanca

Ad Astra,

In response to Neil you said,

'You join the chorus that the people ‘have stopped listening to her’.  That is simply an assertion.  There is no objective evidence that this is so, even if the pundits insist it is.  Simply saying this is the case does not make it true.

Thank you for your patient and methodical rebuttal of the many assertions made by Neil. I hope that the nervous Neils and the nervous Nellies take heed of your comments.

I have been saying for some time that I suspect that it is not so much the case that 'the people have stopped listening' but more likely that 'the people have not started to listen'.

The vast majority of electors switch off for much of the time between elections. They only become re-engaged in the lead up to an election. At this stage in the electoral cycle, the negative message of the Opposition is cutting through to a greater extent than the positive messages from the Government. In that sense, the Government will have a greater challenge when we get closer to an election.

However, electors make choices based in large part on their lived experience. The relentless negativity of the Opposition will very likely backfire and assist the Government when electors realise that the sky has not fallen in.  

Casablanca

May 29. 2012 05:00 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I’m trying to catch up with comments after the break in transmission.  Thanks to all of you who have commended Web Monkey for restoring TPS.  I will pass your remarks onto him.  It was a complex task as there had been a server-destroying hardware fault.  As we all know, hardware fails as equipment ages, which is why we are considering cloud computing.  Migrating the data from backup onto another server was a long-winded job that Web Monkey completed late last night.  But we are in business again, and you are active again.  

Thank you for your good wishes and the personal emails you sent when we were off the air.  The interregnum has highlighted how much TPS is valued and as one person put it, how it gives hope for Labor supporters amidst the Coalition/media induced gloom, sometimes perpetuated by Labor people themselves.  It is actually more than hope; it is the expectation that Labor will do well at the next election.

Today we heard this: "Gillard won't lie down and die - where there's life there's a fight." Who said it?  Tony Abbott in his party room.  In QT, Julia Gillard said that at last the Leader of the Opposition had got something right.

Let those words burn into our memory.  Abbott is becoming aware of who he is trying to destroy, and is fearful.  Let’s have no more negativity about Julia. And to those who accuse us of being deluded in our support for her, spare us your parental rhetoric.

Ad astra

May 29. 2012 05:00 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Paricia said - ” not one person conceded to Craig Thomson that right to the assumption of innocence until proven guilty

That’s particularly funny Patricia because I’ve noticed some very ill informed speculation from you about Michael Lawler. All sorts of odd conspiracy stuff that mainly defies any sense of logic or proportion. Do you have any evidence for it?

What we have is current FWA President (and former ACTU official) Iain Ross providing an assurance that he is not aware of any evidence regarding Michael Lawler that required his attention. He particularly pointed out the separation between the tribunal function of FWA and the administrative function. Ross also said he had no authority over the administrative function, which conducted the investigation.

Yet Patricia and others have repeatedly suggested that a more junior official (Lawler) was somehow capable to wielding great influence over the investigation. Odd.

Ross was critical of the administrative division which conducted the investigation. He said it took too long and damaged the reputation of the institution.  

What Iain Ross didn’t say, and which Patricia and others choose to ignore, is that Tim Lee was the General Manager of the administrative division during most of the investigation. Lee is a former ALP ministerial advisor. He was appointed as FWA Commissioner during some of the Thomson investigation controversy.

So what we have is a former ACTU official making critical comments about the management of an investigation by a former ALP advisor. But many somehow PWA weaves this into a conservative conspiracy!

It’s just the typical “LOOK   OVER THERE!!”

Tom of Melbourne

May 29. 2012 05:21 PM

Ad astra

LadyinRed
Thank you for your kind remarks.  I commend your optimism.  Beating Tony Abbott is eminently doable.  I fact he may beat himself.  I suspect his negativity is becoming as widely known among the electorate as Julia Gillard’s ‘broken promise’ over the carbon tax.

Casablanca
You make a cogent point.  It could be true that the electorate is more ‘waiting to listen’ than it has ‘stopped listening’.  I suspect most voters pay serious attention to politics only as an election approaches.  Tony Abbott knows this, so has cleverly decided to imprint in voters’ minds unfavourable slogans about Julia Gillard and her Government in lieu of important information about policy.  It is classic ‘kill the messenger’ strategy.  While he has undoubtedly had success with this strategy, his over-the-top negativity, obstruction and personal vilification of the PM will eventually kill his push to depose her.   Once the policy debate starts during the election campaign, he will be exposed as the would-be emperor who has no clothes.

Ad astra

May 29. 2012 05:32 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

From the Twitterati for you :-

Toastman‏@toastman51
Gillard won't lie down and die, says Abbott www.smh.com.au/.../...s-abbott-20120529-1zfxj.html via @smh Abbott she what you will never have gut,substance & role of PM!

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Tony Abbott tells his Joint Partyroom today it's going to be a tough election as [PM] 'Gillard won't lie down and die.'

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
'Neanderthal' #sigh RT @RobMitchellMP: @latikambourke he should apologise its poor form but people realise Abbott is a neanderthal

Steve C‏@SteveCommentato
TonyAbbottMHR Your wife must be so proud of the way you speak about women. Your values are clearly the first to 'lie down and die'

walabytrack‏@walabytrack
weeklytimesnow Gillard gets poll boost - Weekly Times Now www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/.../...olitics-news.html

vexnews‏@vexnews
Relentless negativity caused Tony Abbott's Newspoll slump, says Labor #auspol www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fnc6vkbc-1226371033451

AustralianPoliticsTV‏@austpoliticstv
Channel 7: Sunrise – Voters unhappy with Abbott: Poll http://goo.gl/fb/9djbG #auspol

The Punch‏@ThePunchHQ
Even the Liberal ladies don’t love our next Prime Minister: There is a senior ALP official who, when reading Lab... http://bit.ly/KA3kJI

Carg0_Cult‏@Carg0_Cult
Minister to seek advice on FWA VP Lawler's probe into Kathy Jackson & HSU alleged misconduct #auspol www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fndsip4d-1226371167383

Possum Comitatus‏@Pollytics
lyndalcurtis: For those who want to know, the guidelines for an enterprise migration agreement are here. www.immi.gov.au/.../ema-submission-guidelines.pdf

Senator Assange‏@Senator_Assange
Senator Cameron: "The Newspoll figures are still abysmal but they're getting better."www.smh.com.au/.../...s-abbott-20120529-1zfxj.html #yearofdelivery

QUESTION TIME

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
They don't give Malcolm Turnbull many question anymore do they? #qt

fiz‏@fiztig
@Tony_Burke An excellent piece of debate there at the end of #qt, especially pointing out the fickleness of Abbott depending on his audience

Bernard Keane‏@BernardKeane
Much agitation on the Coalition frontbench after that Albo hammering #qt Now we're onto Thomson.

Lyn

May 29. 2012 05:47 PM

Ad astra

Psyclaw, jaycee
I too thought [7.30] was an improvement with Leigh Sales in the chair.  There was less interrupting, more courtesy and no partisan questioning.  This is in stark contrast to Chris Uhlmann whose interrupting aggression was has been so much on display.  I wonder how he feels being just a ‘political editor’, after sitting in the big chair.


TT
I share your views about Q&A.   Barry Humphries was humorous but making humour out of the Craig Thomson matter was crass.  When he is solo, he can control the tempo, but in such a forum as Q&A he has to compete for airtime with four others, which I think leads sometimes to inappropriate remarks in search for a laugh.  His absolute condemnation of Thomson as ‘a liar’, was unbecoming of a great satirist.  That was not satire  - it was priggishness.

I thought the women were magnificent – open, honest and unaffected by the opinions of others.  John Hewson was out of his depth among the talent on the panel.  David Marr was impressive, but narcissistic.

Tony Jones was nonplussed several times, interrupting as usual, and pushing the Coalition line that the mining boom and the Jina Rineharts of this world saved us in the GST, whereas we know that this was not so.

Ad astra

May 29. 2012 05:56 PM

jaycee

Yes, I sincerely believe Labor can win the next election...But it has to do something about de-politicising the public broadcaster. Howard did his level-best to corrupt that august institution. He stacked the board and continually attacked the integrity of its' reporting with Sen' Alston accusing bias?! Of course, reasoned arguement does sound like bias to the right-wing....all it wants is victims.
The national broadcaster must be returned to an apolitical deliverer of news and views...it must be there to keep the commercials honest. With a straight reporter delivering honest facts, Labor could trounce the dishonest opposition.

jaycee

May 29. 2012 06:13 PM

jane

Hooray for web monkey! I was starting to despair.

Casablanca @1.27am, agree 100%. I was watching QT when they cut it short to return to the Levenson Inquiry.

Blair was pretty self-serving in his choice of his words, but despite that, he still managed to dish the dirt.

However, the essence of his testimony was that the wizened foreigner has exerted far too much malevolent influence over British politics for far too long and his skinny claws must be prised away from the levers of power and influence.

I sense that there will be nothing positive for Rupert and his spawn when all the testimony has been taken, or at least I hope that will be the case.

Jason @9.47am, you are absolutely right. If a week is a long time in politics, 15 months is eternity, particularly if the only thing you have had to say for 3+ years is NO!

OK if you're a barracker like SIC, but eventually people will start asking Liealot if that's all he's got. I think they're starting to now.

TT @12.16pm, a stirring call to arms against the Great Liar!

Patricia @12.28pm, I know Barry Humphries is a big Rodent fan, so it would be foolish to expect him to have an open mind, I guess. I didn't watch QandA. I ceased watching it some time ago. Your comment has validated my decision.

Ad astra @1.55, you've taken the words out of my mouth, er keyboard! How anyone can accuse the PM of not being an authoritative leader beggars belief, imo.

If she was as wishy washy as her detractors would have us believe, we would be languishing under a Liealot government right now.

Neil, ask yourself who persuaded the Independents that backing labor was the right thing for the country and who failed utterly to convince them that he could be trusted to keep his word?

Who continues to keep the Independents on side?

If the PM is so lacking in inspiration and authority, why didn't Rudd roll her?

And why hasn't anyone else challenged her, despite all the mischief making and "look over there" tactics by the opposition and Rupert's robots in the msm, including, to their shame, the ABC?

Don't be discouraged by poor polling atm. As Ad astra has pointed out, the polls and their spruikers spill their negative sauce everywhere, with the rider "If an election had been held this weekend, yesterday, today or some other fanciful date, the opposition would win in a landslide!"

I don't dispute they could be right if an election was held right this minute, but an election hasn't been held this minute. They cannot predict an election result in a week, a month, six months or a year.

We should all be of good heart. I feel a small change in the wind. Even the likes of the Courier Mail has criticised the Howard government for squandering billions on middle class bribes at the expense of public infrastructure.

Just think what a difference it will make as more positive things are allowed to escape Rupert's iron fist?

The link below ferreted out by Min @ Café Whispers.

www.couriermail.com.au/.../story-e6freooo-1226370446417

Ben Eltham's take on Roy Hill and the 1700 foreign workers.

newmatilda.com/2012/05/29/we-need-rineharts-1700

We had a friend who worked at Roxby quite some years ago, now. Although he was on a very good wicket, a great deal was eaten up with the price of accommodation and food.

At least phone reception was good and the workers' families could live there.

I doubt such luxuries will be available in the Pilbara and workers who don't live in WA will probably find that they won't be flown to their home state for their rostered week or 10 days off, but will more likely be flown to Darwin and have to make their way home from there.

And the isolation and punishing climate will possibly be just too much for most people, a fact attested by jaycee @11.55am.

I believe there will be jobs for Aborigines, but it will be just as hard or harder for them to be separated from their loved ones and the support of their wider community.

jane

May 29. 2012 06:24 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Thankyou very much for getting TPS back for us Ad Astra, a big thankyou to Web Monkey.  I hope neither of you  suffered too many headaches.

Min thankyou for caring about TPS

Lady in Red Glad you enjoy Today’s Links” , same as we enjoy your posts.

Patricia wa another brilliant article by you . Thankyou for your encouragement. Must admit I did get a bit panicky this morning. Then I have had a headache with a disputed charge on my
Kindle at Amazon, that required a lot of trouble filling out details and calls to America with long, long invoice numbers.

Talk Turkey you are a theatre full of entertainment all by yourself,  love this:-
Narrow the eyes!
Set the Jaw!
Double the Fist!
For this is WAR!

“Lyn your links have a new feel to them today. Powerful”.

Thankyou Talk Turkey for saying that to me.

I think Abbott has hung himself, he has had a very long rope for a very long time.  Look what he has said today,  more abuse after abuse.

DMW that’s so nice of you, I love when you say Tweetie, sounds nice and thankyou .  (Lyn's link to Bernard Keanes Crikey piece (thanks tweetie)

Nasking Abbott’s treatment of the Prime Minister is disgraceful, fancy saying that, I think the boxers would have more respect for their opponents wouldn’t they.

There I have caught up and read the whole 36 posts thankyou everybody you are all brilliant opinionators.

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

May 29. 2012 06:29 PM

TalkTurkey

I like the blokes on this site
But I love the sheilas!
So many strong women!

Get into it Girls,
Make sure you don't let *J*U*L*I*A* slip from y/our grasp,
she is the Amelia Earhart of world politics,
she is the full flower of women who have ceased to tolerate crap.

The people who put her down are misogyninists and flappers.

But should be rebadged

not as an atheist

(which after all admits of the notion of deity!)

But as a humanist

as are I hope most of the people on this site.

For that is what she plainly is,

A Good Samaritan by nature,

A Goodwillian in my own terms,

and better at it than anyone else around, (and shrewd withal)!

Women of Australia!

Don't let Julia Gillard get ripped from our leadership!

. . . .This is a Woman!

*WHEN COMES SUCH ANOTHER?*




[On  cold nights

This Authority

uses and recommends

Golden Oak Muscat!

Yum!]


TalkTurkey

May 29. 2012 06:50 PM

TalkTurkey

Casablanca said
I have been saying for some time that I suspect that it is not so much the case that 'the people have stopped listening' but more likely that 'the people have not started to listen'.


That is a great thought!

Well, it is our job to grab their attention!

Nobody said it was going to be easy . . ! . .

TalkTurkey

May 29. 2012 06:55 PM

2353

I don't know if the two events are related but "the great outage of 2012" happened last weekend and there seemed to be a shift (to me anyway) in media coverage.  Saturday's Courier Mail had no Federal Politics until well past page 20 - and then there was no "scandal", just relatively straight reporting.  Saturday nights TV news (ABC I think) also was a faux political scandal free zone.  Sunday was more of the same.

Did anyone else notice the sudden change in reporting scope back to actually reporting news?

2353

May 29. 2012 07:00 PM

Web Monkey

Sorry everyone for the downtime.  

Server failures are always very unexpected and they are always very stressful!  The machine has served TPS well for quite some time though we are now running on its brother/sister platform...for the time being anyway.

As that machine is of a similar age, the cloud will definitely be entertained sooner than later!

Hopefully we don't experience too many hickups with the new setup; I will be keeping a close eye on TPS.

Cheers,
Web Monkey

Web Monkey

May 29. 2012 07:05 PM

42 long

seems like a long time  with the site down.
   Michell G. today just HAD to get in "It wasn't good for Craig T...' Oh isn't she awful?
The Deputy Chairperson went better today. Bit more confident with time. Ms. Burke.
   The libs shouldn't take the money. Little research or input and such negativity. I think it's wearing thin with a lot of people.
   The thing to bear in  mind is that when there is an ELECTION, there will be a campaign before people vote TONY. You might have to get off your Bum and actually say something, that is comprehensible with some truth in it. Are you up to it?

42 long

May 29. 2012 08:37 PM

jane

From Lyn's links: smh poll Do you think Tony Abbott's negativity is hurting his popularity?

71%-Yes
25%-No
4$-Don't know.

Looks like we're not the only ones who think Liealot is his own worst enemy.

ToM who is Lawler sleeping with and how come he's had his nose well and truly stuck in HSU business?

jane

May 29. 2012 09:14 PM

jaycee

That montage of documents showing Craig Thomson's licence etc, also shows the credit card document done with one of those "roll over" inking hand printers..do you notice the payers name section is darker than the payees address part...considering the inking roller is one piece, why is this so?.....perhaps, because when one cuts off one name and attaches another with "invisible tape" (3M brand) and photocopies it, there is no evidence of a join....a perfect copy...I know..I've done it (for a practical joke!).

jaycee

May 29. 2012 09:26 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
I’m still catching up after a hectic day.  I’m off to bed to read your links on the iPad.

Your Twitterati were interesting.  Maybe this is the day, 29 May 2012, that we will remember for Tony Abbott’s admission: "Gillard won't lie down and die - where there's life there's a fight."  How right you are Tony!  How come it’s taken so long for him to work that out?

Thanks again for keeping us informed and on our toes.  You are a gem.

Ad astra

May 29. 2012 09:46 PM

Tom of Melbourne


Jane – ”ToM who is Lawler sleeping with and how come he's had his nose well and truly stuck in HSU business?”

I know about the relationship Jane, I’ve seen all the ill informed speculation about the motivation of both.

So Lawler could have shown better judgment, but it’s a long way short of the type of conspiracy theories that have flooded a couple of blogs.

No one has yet bothered to address-
•  That most of the investigation was conducted under the supervision of (now Commissioner) Tim lee, former ALP ministerial advisor.
•  The report was released under President Iain Ross, respected jurist, and former ACTU official.

How about you or PWA address the Lawer’s influence on the investigation given the actual structure of FWA.

Tom of Melbourne

May 29. 2012 10:25 PM

Jason

ToM
  It wouldn't matter to you who addresed what! You would in your usual arrogant way ignore it.

Jason

May 30. 2012 12:29 AM

DMW

Hi ToM
how's that list of MP's and Senators that don't meet your standards for being suitable to sit in parliament going?

Do you have a published or suitable to be be published set of standards for our elected representatives to meet?

I await with bated breath your response.

PS if the only guideline is that they should not have procured the services of someone practicing the worlds oldest profession that's ok by me but be well aware that would knock a number of current MHR's and/or Senators.

DMW

May 30. 2012 02:01 AM

Psyclaw

ToM

You talk of things "no one has yet bothered to address".


Well here are two more. I very much look forward to your logical explanation of them.

(1) The documented conduct of Lawler in writing his complaint to police about Williamson "in my private capacity".

(2) The documented authorisation by Jackson for the payment by HSU of "consultancy " fees to the company owned by her and her husband (for the time being).

I would especially like you to address why these two aspects of the farce smell like high hell sil vous plait.

I choose to ignore your pissy smear of Justice Ross as "a former ACTU official".



Psyclaw

May 30. 2012 02:21 AM

Psyclaw

I have just had the opportunity to listen to the radio for a few hours as I drove the return from a faraway funeral.

One discussion (ABC radio but I cannot recall precise details of the context) was about cost of living in Australia.

It was based on a "deprivation index" which assessed living costs by looking at 24 aspects of life considered to be essential. The  24 essential aspects had been identified by public surveys. The result showed that the cost of living deprived the poor of 6 more of the 24 items in 2006 then it does today ie things were tougher for the poor in 2006.

But the point I wish to make is that the commentator then castigated the Gillard government for failing to sell to the public the fact that we are better off now then in 2006.

This warrants comment.

(1) Does the government really have to "sell" us that we're doing OK economically?

(2) In fact hasn't the government (every day!!!!), the OECD, the rating agencies, and the IMF (world's greatest treasurer) told us of this.

(3) How can the government effectively "sell" us these facts when the MSM doesn't publish them truthfully and prominently and in fact publishes contrary false opinion.

(4) Doesn't "the government doesn't sell" actually mean "the MSM doesn't tell"?

Psyclaw

May 30. 2012 03:46 AM

Casablanca

Psyclaw

Sorry to hear that you had a funeral to attend.

If you did not catch Media Watch on Monday have a look at the item about the women featured in the Herald Sun in March 2012 bemoaning the  crippling increases in the cost of living. A few months later the same women featured in a Channel 7 item where she boasted that she lives the good life, dining out and beauty treatments are regular treats. Their monster 6 bedroom house features a swimming pool and 3D TV.

The woman, Lisa Edwards, apparently runs a talent agency and was happy to star in both stories and whatsmore saw no contradiction in so doing. She said, 'I do have a comfortable lifestyle, but like the Herald Sun says, yes I have reined in wayward spending, sold a rental property and sold 2 cars ... both replaced with more economical cars.


Charming! www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3512876.htm

I really like your point 4. With very little work it could become a catch-cry. I'm sure that TT and/or PatriciaWA would have no trouble in adjusting the metre to make it more epigrammatic.

Casablanca

May 30. 2012 07:30 AM

2353

Psyclaw,

In regard to your Point 4 I'm with Casablanca - slogans seem to win opinion polls.  Pity I don't have the inspiration to come up with a suitable three word slogan that would capture the imagination.  We could all use it on other blogs we frequent.

2353

May 30. 2012 07:34 AM

Lyn

TODAY’S LINKS

Guest post by Lachlan Ridge- The Adjournment Debate, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless
am escorted to the Public Gallery, but am not allowed in until I surrender my mobile, for which receive a chit for redemption, later. I have the gallery to myself. About six members in the chamber, but the government must always provide a minister. The Ministers take it in turns , Nicola Roxon is using her
http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/

Thomson 6: Kathy Jackson and the $½ million, Independent Australia
According to several eye-witness reports we have received, he was spotted last week looking dapper and as fresh as a daisy in a café, having a cuppa with his partner Kathy Jackson, along with the manager of Opposition Business Christopher Pyne.The same Christopher Pyne who had a late night drinking session James Ashby
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

A smoking gun in the Thomson vs Media saga-, Petering Time, North Coast VoicesHerald-Sun.
Does this set of interlocking relationships with Murdoch's minions go some way to explaining why large slabs of the meeja uncritically swallow whole Abbott & Co’s vitriol concerning this MP?Might it also explain why the veracity of this 2011 2UE954 News Talk image of Thomson's alleged credit card details (showing a misspelled surname
northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/.../...-saga.html

Quick And To The Pointless, Wixxy, WixxyLeaks
The contents of this post may contain FACTS. It is undoubtable that these FACTS will offend right-wingers, climate change sceptics, racists, fear mongerer’s, and members of the Coalition. I highly recommend those who prefer life wearing blinkers, to cease
wixxy.wordpress.com/.../

Accessions to power: are women prime ministers different, JOCELYNNE Scutt, Onb Line Opinion
When a leadership ballot occurs, having gained the majority of votes in the party room or caucus the winner is accepted by media and public as 'the leader'. Where numbers are close, the media speculates on possible future challenges and comments on the possible 'lame duck' status of the incumbent. Where numbers confirm a significant win, the media acknowledges the leader as secure and
www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=13671

Prime Minister Gillard ‘I will stand up and fight’ and other responses to Tony Abbott, Turn Left 2013
During question time, PM Julia Gillard stood up and told Tony in response to these comments‘let me say to the Leader of the Opposition… I will stand up and fight‘Kristina Keneally (Former NSW Premier and current MP) responded:@TonyAbbottMHR You say Julia ‘Gillard won’t lie down and die’ and wonder why people don’t think you’re fit to be PM?
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

We Need Rinehart's 1700, Ben Eltham, New Matilda
Unlike the sad tendency for rich countries like Australia to suck doctors and medical specialists from poorer countries, paying semi-skilled workers good money is not only good for Australia: more importantly, it’s good for the workers themselves. Some will inevitably want to stay and build new lives for themselves and their families here, and that’s a good thing too — just as Australia
newmatilda.com/2012/05/29/we-need-rineharts-1700

The casual misogyny of QandA, News with Nipples
Good on Jacki Weaver for saying, “I think we are getting a bit unkind about Mrs Rinehart” and trying to change the topic. But then Jones brings it back by asking Miriam Margolyes what she thinks of Rinehart, and she mentions Rinehart’s appearance and apparent lack of generosity. Obviously, being a big lefty, I do not support mining companies digging shit out of the ground without giving money back to the country.
newswithnipples.com/.../

The Last Days Of The Liberals (3)- The Moment It All Changed And Labor Hit The FronT, Bob Ellis, Table Talk
For O’Farrell and Baillieu and Barnett and Newman are showing now what they are made of: a greedy philistine vandalistic need to smash up the culture and little else. The broken universities will not be whole again; the struggling old people who lost their savings to
http://www.ellistabletalk.com/

Carbon tax airlines dogfight flares up in parliament Ben Sandilands , Plane Talking
The leader of the opposition, Tony Abbott, lit the match by claiming that the carbon tax had been the last straw for Brindabella Airlines and had caused it to stop the daily Brisbane to Armidale and Canberra to Albury services.Shortly afterwards the Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese, quoted the actual press release which said:
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

Why Labor gets no credit for economic management, Bernard Keane, Crikey
Labor’s inability to capitalise politically on an extraordinary series of economic figures showing the economy performing better than virtually any other in the developed world has frustrated the government and even vexed political commentators, who assume that
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Labor poll bump, Google Oz boss wants 'Silicon Beach', The Power Index
Power to the people. Meanwhile, actually translating that poll number into an accurate showing at next year's federal election may be a tough ask, after the AEC raised concerns that 1.5 million people were missing from the electoral roll.Young people were
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../labor-poll-bump-google-oz-boss-wants-silicon-beach

Once more on groupthink: Repeat after me “We’re all individuals”Ethicalmartini
The Australian has been at war with the ABC for many years and a quick search of the paper’s own database shows a remarkable tendency to launch broadsides at the ABC and its staff for perceived bias or alleged breaches of some unwritten code of balance.
ethicalmartini.wordpress.com/.../

ABC poster boy- Peter Reith, The ABC has Gone to Hell
During Budget week just passed, the ABC wheeled out all sorts of economic, business and political boffins, enlightening us with their highly considered opinions of all things Budget.But saturation point was clearly reached for ABC viewers with one talking head in particular: Peter Reith.
the-abc-has-gone-to-hell.tumblr.com/.../abc-poster-boy-peter-reith

strange times indeed , Gary Sauer Thompson, Public Opinion
The Coalition is asking for a mandate to undo all the Rudd/Gillard policies that have bought about Australia's "decline". They seek their mandate through a campaign of unremitting negativity designed
www.sauer-thompson.com/.../strange-times-i.php

Migrants, myths and mistruths: The use of overseas workers in the resource industry , Mining Oil Gas Jobs
The process involved in lodging a 457 visa application can take companies up to six months or even longer, given the documentation and prescribed obligations such as training benchmarks. The cliché that ‘time is money’ is very relevant to our industry, where there can often be short lead times into projects, Given the current 457 visa program is not responsive enough to deal with short l
www.miningoilgasjobs.com.au/.../...f-overseas.aspx

Tony AbbottI find tony abbott really disturbing so I created this board to show people why!
http://pinterest.com/turbojv/tony-abbott/

TODAY’S FRONT PAGES
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 30 May 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm


Video

Posts from the ‘Daily Fix’ Category
australianpoliticstv.org/category/daily-fix/

Lyn

May 30. 2012 08:05 AM

2353

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120529-1zhh3.html

Generally we are better off than 2006.  It's not the lead story but at least it is there.

2353

May 30. 2012 08:06 AM

Gravel

Web Monkey

Thank you for all your hard work and getting TPS back up and running.  It is a lifeline for me and I need you to know how much I appreciate all your hard work.

Ad Astra

My heart is flying high after reading your new post.  Your words spoke to me very deeply.  Before I got interested in Politics, when Latham was LOTO, then we lost the election, I went straight back out.  My dislike of Howard grew from that time on and by the time Rudd came on the scene I was reading to jump on the bandwagon.  

In your first paragraph you talk about Graham Richardson.  I can guarantee the non-politically aware would not know who he is.  I only learned about him and his past since I became engaged. I fully agree most people would not know he is a Labor turncoat.

Lyn

Thank you for teaching me how to use twitter.  When I couldn't get on here, you alerted me to the trouble.  Your links were missed by me, although I did click on all the one's you put on Twitter.  Thank you.

I did my bit on Monday to help the Labor cause.  Long story short (hopefully).  Son, car accident (1998), paraplegic. Applied for ramp for our house through TAC.  Talking with builder while signing papers.  He mentioned the horrible behaviour of politicians re: Peter Slipper, Craig Thomson etc.  Got talking.  Mentioned that when the NDIS comes in, he would probably get lots of work re: ramps, bathrooms and stuff.  His face lit up. Then I mentioned the stimulus.......he couldn't speak highly enough of it.  

I didn't get the impression he was a Labor voter, but at least he was aware of some of the good stuff our Government has done. And we filled him in on other good stuff.  

Oh and they started the job on Monday and the chap is here painting the bits that need doing right now at 8.05am.  Talk about quick work.  I got so excited yesterday I rang son and 'told' him to come out for tea.  He got a very pleasant surprise to see and use the ramp.  He had only been here Sunday night and none of us knew it was going to be done Monday.

Gravel

May 30. 2012 08:35 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

May 30. 2012 08:45 AM

Psyclaw

Cheers Casablanca and 2353

Yep 2353, your link is to the discussion I had heard on late night radio, sans the comment that it was the government's fault for not "selling" the message ....... that comment was I think from the guest telling the story on the radio.

Psyclaw

May 30. 2012 10:04 AM

LadyInRed

Going through your links Lyn - terrific reading.

Are women prime ministers treated differently? This is a very interesting read and backed up with some very telling facts. Without a doubt the answer is yes. I have found she is even trreated differently by people who are for her, sadly.

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 10:18 AM

42 long

  Richo was in the parliament yesterday. When the fact was ammounced by the deputy speaker the LNP side cheered. You always were nothing but a numbers man . We know who you work for.

42 long

May 30. 2012 10:45 AM

LadyInRed

Just watched a very relaxed interview with Albo about too much biff in parliament. He says its like Abbott only has one gear. He's been told to tone it down, hence Pyne doing most of the suspension of standing orders, and asking the more nasty questions. But, he just can't help himself largely because he doesn't have anything else. He has nothing to say on health, or the economy or on any policy issue. So true. When he goes, and he ultimately will, he will take Pyne with him. He is a real bully, and bullying has worked for him so far, why change something that has always worked for you?

www.smh.com.au/.../...-30-2012-20120530-1zi4p.html

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 10:51 AM

LadyInRed

Oh and hilariously Thomson voted with the nolation and Abbott and Pyne left the chamber - they don't want to be seen taking his vote.

Pyne own words got out "fast as a gazelle".


10.15am: So, bottom line, what was all that about?

•Mr Thomson joined other Independents in voting against gag motions.
•This meant he voted with the Coalition for the first time since sitting on the cross bench.
•This put the Coalition in the position of having to accept the vote of Mr Thomson - after arguing for months that Julia Gillard shouldn't accept his vote.
•But Mr Pyne deployed the fast as a gazelle negation tactic to ensure it didn't happen.

10.25am: Now let's be clear for the record.

Mr Pyne did not vote in any of the divisions this morning, (hence the negation of Mr Thomson's vote.)

Mr Pyne left the chamber to negate the tainted vote of the Member for Dobell in the same way as Senator Ian Campbell excused himself from the Senate as Manager of Government Business when Senator Mal Colston voted with the Howard Government once the Coalition had refused to accept his vote in the late 1990’s

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 10:56 AM

LadyInRed

The Member for Dobell making Pyne and Abbott look like fools - precious.

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 11:00 AM

TalkTurkey

Psyclaw said
(4) Doesn't "the government doesn't sell" actually mean "the MSM doesn't tell"?
Then Casablanca said
Psyclaw
I really like your point 4. With very little work it could become a catch-cry. I'm sure that TT and/or PatriciaWA would have no trouble in adjusting the metre to make it more epigrammatic.

www.youtube.com/watch

Tune: I  Can't Give You Anything But Love

MSM gives *J*U*L*I*A* no love, Casa,
Sneers and jeers is all they've any of, Casa:
She does great
They just hate
But soon they'll find
All their pain's
Been in vain
Though they try hard to cheat us blind for . .

Gee Ain't *J*U*L*I*A*'s Gov'ment doin' swell, Casa!
No place else on Earth is doin' so well, Casa!
Abbortt's doom is what those BISONs* spell, Casa -
Pretty soon he's gonna get the shove!


*BISONs : Beautiful Inspiring Set Of Numbers
(d'apres The Finnigans on Poll Bludger)









TalkTurkey

May 30. 2012 11:02 AM

LadyInRed

Anyone for a Claytons?

Now I want all the media to say that Gillard was wrong in puting Thomson with the independents? ha ha ha what a great way to get a pairing arrangement without actually getting a pairing arrangement! or if nothing else a great big laugh - how lovely to see a smile on Thomson's face - he looked young again.

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 11:22 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad and Everybody

Twitterverse for you:-

Crag MaZ‏@razhorse
FWA VP Michael Lawler wrote to police about HSU officials in his pvte capacity on behalf of “Kathy Jackson & myself”. www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fndsip4d-1226371167383

Stephen Koukoulas‏@TheKouk
For the Coalition to contemplate as they play silly games with Australia's debt ceiling - the US experience www.bloomberg.com/.../...u-could-sink-economy.html

Brigadier Slog‏@BrigadierSlog
Grattan ponders "The mystery that is Abbott's unpopularity" www.smh.com.au/.../...pularity-20120529-1zhdn.html Start with a PM who "wont die" & continual "SKY IS FALLING"

Mark ‏@markjs1
#NBN will revolutionize the way our kids are taught in schools.....and Abbott wants to stop it!! http://bit.ly/N91OPQ #auspol

Brigadier Slog‏@BrigadierSlog
Well it seems @murpharoo confirms the Coalition DID in fact accept Craig Thompson's "tainted" vote. www.canberratimes.com.au/.../...0120530-1zi4p.html #MoreLibLies

Charles S Jackson‏@Ostralopithycus
Also appears Coalition had no problem accepting Craig Thompson's vote AGAINST GOVT in a Gag/Censure motion... explain pls? @TonyAbbottMHR

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott pressed on whether or not he made it out on the first vote 'I'm not going into precise details...

Abbott flees as Thomson votes with Coalition ,Phillip Coorey
www.smh.com.au/.../...oalition-20120530-1zi79.html

TheFinnigans天地有道人无道‏@Thefinnigans
It is now official & in the Hansard. The Opposition has accepted Thomson's "tainted" vote as Joe Hockey said they would. Sham, shame #auspol

The Australian‏@australian
Thomson votes with Opposition: SUSPENDED Labor MP Craig Thomson has voted with the opposition today, rejecting a... www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn

ManO'Steel(town)‏@berkeleyboy
So #LNP boss Clive Palmer gets his own Queensland legal system. I want one too... www.goldcoast.com.au/.../...me-and-court-news.html #qldpol smells funny.

SmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

May 30. 2012 11:46 AM

BSA Bob

The mainstream reporting of the morning's events in Canberra will be interesting to watch.

The S.A. government is introducing a new approach to speeding fines, so my legal team is watching the Palmer Reforms in Qld with interest.

BSA Bob

May 30. 2012 12:31 PM

LadyInRed

Michelle Gratans shamelessly titled her piece "The Mystery that is Abbotts Unpopularity?

Can the woman be so out of touch with people that she can't see that :

a) first and foremost Abbott doesn't like or respect women (so there is a significant bunch of voters)
b) he is a bully (lots of men are sensitive to the bully having been bullied themselves, women are sensitive to this goes without saying) so there is another large chunk
c) he is relentlessly negative (nobody wants to hear the sky is falling in 24 X 7, unless they enjoy masochism)
d) he actually has nothing to add - no policies other than I will remove every grain of fairness, every piece of infrustructure even if it makes no sense to do so.
e) he is a weather vane

I could go on.  

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 12:37 PM

LadyInRed

Have a look at this picture.....sorry for hogging the space but this picture is hilarious

www.abc.net.au/.../4041652

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 01:01 PM

Gravel

LadyInRed

Keep hogging away, I'm enjoying your running commentary.  It will be interesting to see how this Thomson Tainted Vote for Nopposition plays.  I won't get excited though.......it'll be a cover up for their uselessness.

Gravel

May 30. 2012 01:01 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
I have now finished reading all your links from yesterday and today a well as your Twitterverse.  It’s like reading an encyclopedia – my brain is bursting!  Your contribution not only informs, but also triggers lines of thoughts and the direction of subsequent pieces.  What a rich seam of political intelligence and intrigue you tap day after day.  No wonder we have such high traffic following TPS.

This morning’s charade, to which you directed us via the Twitterverse, saw Christopher Pyne and Tony Abbott scampering from the House so as to ‘negate’ Craig Thomson’s vote with the Coalition on a gag motion, which traditionally independents do not support.  Notwithstanding their absence, Thomson’s vote was counted with Opposition votes, whether they like it or not.  This episode shows the ridiculously low level to which the Coalition will descend to press its unconstitutional point that the Member for Dobell’s vote be not counted because it is ‘tainted’.  To bad that voters in Dobell would thereby be disenfranchised. This bizarre episode, redolent with sick humour, reminds us why the electorate has such a jaundiced view of parliament and politics.

Ad astra

May 30. 2012 01:05 PM

Ad astra

Gravel
Your heartfelt words of encouragement are truly appreciated.  It is for the very reason you cite that this site exists – to enable your heart to fly high, to lift your spirits in a political milieu that is so adversarial, so derogatory, so unremittingly condemnatory of PM Gillard and her Government, a Government that is governing well despite the roadblocks it has to overcome, despite the unfair criticism that batters it every day.

We try here to be fair and objective; even as we are, the stark contrast between a good, if not perfect Government, and a destructive, dishonest and almost policy deficient Opposition led by the most vitriolic, pugilistic Opposition Leader in living memory, is exposed day after day.  All the while much of the MSM seems unable or unwilling to highlight this contrast.  What holds so many journalists back?  Today, as LadyinRed points out, we even had Michelle Grattan writing a piece: The mystery that is Abbott's unpopularity.  Her article fails to resolve the ‘mystery’.  I wonder why.  Is it because there’s no mystery at all?  Where on earth has Michelle been?  This is what Labor supporters are up against, day after day.  To counterbalance such bizarre journalism is just one cogent reason why we need a site like TPS.  There are many others.

www.smh.com.au/.../...pularity-20120529-1zhdn.html

Ad astra

May 30. 2012 01:11 PM

Tom of Melbourne

DMW
”how's that list of MP's and Senators that don't meet your standards for being suitable to sit in parliament going?

Do you have a published or suitable to be be published set of standards for our elected representatives to meet?

DMW, surprisingly (I know) but I don’t have a list! Thomson clearly has engaged in unethical behaviour to teh extent that he shouldn’t be in parliament. I know a range of people here say ”but, but, but...what about the woman who got caught shoplifting??!!” My view of her is that she has no place in parliament on the basis of good taste.

But here’s a hint about my standard – if a former used car salesman was a Liberal MP, and he had 200 adverse findings against him by a consumer affairs organisation, but no actual prosecution, I’d also say he has no place in parliament.

I’d also say that anyone who declines to co-operate with law enforcement, should be excluded from teh parliament. An MP who can’t assist with law enforcement should have no place in making laws. They can have their right of silence, but they shouldn’t be an MP too.

Hope this helps.

Psyclaw
”(1) The documented conduct of Lawler in writing his complaint to police about Williamson "in my private capacity".

(2) The documented authorisation by Jackson for the payment by HSU of "consultancy " fees to the company owned by her and her husband (for the time being).


If Jackson has done anything illegal, prosecute her. If she’s done anything unethical, she should be preselected for parliament.

Other than that, how is your point relevant to the almost 200 findings that were made against Thomson?

Tom of Melbourne

May 30. 2012 01:18 PM

Tom of Melbourne

... and by the way Psyclaw, how is writing a letter of complaint to the police is a hanging offence?

Lawler is a judicial office, if he became aware of a possible breach of the law and didn’t inform the authorities, he would probably have been criticised for being negligent in his duties.

Tom of Melbourne

May 30. 2012 01:23 PM

NormanK

LadyInRed

Thanks for the ABC link.
What a hoot!
This won't be the last that we see of this video.
Abbott trying to make a dash for the door to escape from Craig Thomson's tainted vote only to be told that he is too late. Laughing
Not at all undignified Tony.

The stuntman out-stunted.

NormanK

May 30. 2012 01:26 PM

Jason

ToM,
   Do you kids go to a catholic school?

Jason

May 30. 2012 01:37 PM

Michael

Run Rabbit run!

And did he what?

Thompson is playing with Shouldabeen's head. And demonstrating how ridiculously easy it is to make the Opposition look... ridiculous.

Michael

May 30. 2012 01:37 PM

Bilko

AA Abbort aborted from doing a runner should make all labor stawlwarts smile, what a joke that man has become. Why was he and the other clown who failed to get out improperly dressed in the chamber in the first place. That video should be retained and used as often as possible.

Bilko

May 30. 2012 01:41 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Now that I’ve answered a few questions put to me, would anyone like to answer-
How did Lawler manage to exert such strong influence over the FWA report given-
•  It was supervised by (now Commissioner)Tim Lee, former ALP Advisor
•  It was released under FWA President Iain Ross, former ACTU official (and that is not disparagement, Ross is highly respected)
•  There is no reporting relationship between the tribunal function and the administrative function, as Ross points out.
•  There is no evidence that Lawler has done anything wrong (other than possibly exercise poor judgment)
???


Jason, my kids go to the excellent private schools nearby. The taxpayer funded “Performing Arts Centres” are going well. They make the Sydney Opera House look shabby! Thanks Wayne!

Tom of Melbourne

May 30. 2012 01:58 PM

DMW

ToM @ 1:11 PM
thanks for your response I take it that using the services of someone from the world's oldest profession is not what you have against Thomson it his alleged unethical behavior. I am fine with that if the allegations are proven then his head could roll.

From another angle a parliament is 'supposed' to be a reflection of the people it represents and that being so at time to time you would have to expect that given there are many rogues, vagabonds and thieves in our society on or more of each type will end up being elected to parliament.

The question now remains do we accept that as part of real life or do we implement some system of checks and balances to ensure only people of the highest integrity and mental health are nominated to stand for election or do we live with the flaws of universal suffrage and franchise?

DMW

May 30. 2012 02:03 PM

Jason

ToM,
   So you have a problem with a MP who has had findings made against him sitting in the parliament, but have no problem having your children educated by an organisation who to this day has to be dragged "kicking and screaming" to admit they have and still hide pedophiles amongst their number!

Jason

May 30. 2012 02:48 PM

Tom of Melbourne

MDW, I don’t know exactly how representative of the population parliament is supposed to be, so I’m not sure I follow your point.

I’d prefer it if parliament contained more people with above average intelligence, a better work ethic than elsewhere, a higher proportion of tertiary educated, people more articulate than average, a high percentage of people with leadership capability... so really, I don’t see much purpose in parliament containing a typical number of unethical types.

My point is that there has been plenty of absolute nonsense posted about Lawler, ill informed malicious gossip with a facade of politics. That was the point of my comment  - May 29. 2012 05:00 PM.
So many on this site and others have parroted that type of conspiracy theory nonsense.

The same person who provoked my response yesterday previously urged withholding of judgement on Thomson until FWA issued its report. Now that the report didn’t go the way of their man, they’re blaming the institution, the investigation...anything other than address themselves to the actual findings, and the actual structure of FWA.

It’s an ill informed low grade conspiracy theory that doesn’t withstand even light scrutiny, and as long as AA doesn’t ban me for saying so, I’ll continue to point it out.
------------------------------
Don’t know about that being relevant to the schools my kids attend Jason. But have it your way. Best you don’t send your kids to one of those schools.

Tom of Melbourne

May 30. 2012 03:05 PM

Jason

ToM,
   Merely asking a question as you seem to be the one who demands such high standards of "institutions" do you also practice these high standards you demand of others?

Jason

May 30. 2012 03:10 PM

LadyInRed

Tom of Melbourne Lawler deserves the same presumtpion of innocence as Thomson. Also, they both deserve to carry on in their respective roles. Thomson has a right to serve in parliament, and Lawler has a right to remain in his. You may call the comments about Lawlers conduct a low grade conspiracy theory that does not mean it doesn't deserve scrutiny - afterall it is a mans political career at stake here and so Lawler and Jackson have questions that need to be answered. As for your comment that you expect people in parliament to have an above average intelligence I can assure you that when it comes to their 'pecker' most men lose all intelligence, women rarely lose theirs. So not sure that higher intelligence will make all that much difference.

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 03:45 PM

Tom of Melbourne

” Lawler deserves the same presumtpion of innocence as Thomson

Exactly how many adverse findings does Lawler have against him? When he has almost 200 findings from an independent statutory authority, I’ll be more inclined to agree with you.

But perhaps you can tell me... how is it that Lawler was able to wield such authority over an unrelated division of FWA when the investigation was supervised by Tim Lee (former  ALP political advisor) and the findings were released under FWA president Iain Ross (former ACTU official), are they also in on the conspiracy Lawler and Jackson to get Thomson?

”so Lawler and Jackson have questions that need to be answered

How about you be specific. Exactly what are the questions they need to answer as far as the behaviour of Thomson is concerned?

Tom of Melbourne

May 30. 2012 03:49 PM

42 long

Lady in red. I have to object to your generalisation that when it's their pecker  men lose all their intelligence. C/mon really?. A hell of a generalisation there, I think.
Also are YOU assuming there is anything in the "prostitutes" thing except for the salacious types and the "tut tut' old biddies. It's a good line to run and you are proving that with your comments, on this occasion.
I normally agree with you but not this time. In France, even if some person used the services of someone it would hardly raise a comment. Incidently i have never been inside a brothel or ever knowingly spoken to a prostitute. IF someone goes there it is between them and the person and their spouse.
   Women (if they have the need ) go with Giggallo's too I have spoken with one of THEM, but not in relation to their trade. it's all par5t of life as it is lived. It would appear to be a sign of OUR immaturity if it is so important that It dominates the headlines so much.

42 long

May 30. 2012 04:03 PM

BSA Bob

Ad Astra at 1.01
I must take you to task over your description of Abbott's "scampering". It was more a case of a panicked headlong flight, surely.
Though I agree with Gravel that the MSM coverup machine will be brought into play, with criticism of a Labor "stunt", & perhaps a flood of "I'm not normally a fan of Tony Abbott, but..."
Though the indelible pictures we see are hilarious. Completely hilarious.

Lady in Red at 12.37
I brought up that picture, & a fine picture it is. Couldn't get any video stuff, should I have been able to?

BSA Bob

May 30. 2012 04:10 PM

LadyInRed

42 long - sorry I have to stick by my words. And I did not mean simply prostitution - so sorry if you thought I did. I mean that in my experience most men lose all sense when it comes to their 'pecker'. That you are not one is a credit to you. Clinton comes to mind. And have a look at this list, not too many woman on it. Come on you have to laugh.

en.wikipedia.org/.../List_of_federal_political_sex_scandals_in_the_United_States

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 04:11 PM

Michael

Craig Thompson's a minnow when swimming in the same stream as Kathy Jackson.

I refer, if you haven't visited above, to:


Thomson 6: Kathy Jackson and the $½ million, Independent Australia

www.independentaustralia.net/.../

Michael

May 30. 2012 04:16 PM

LadyInRed

Tom of Melbourne - I am not a criminal lawyer. Jackson has made claims - she has to bring them to court where those claims will be examined and cross examined. I would think that Lawler will also be brought in simply because there is suggestion that he may have had some input in HSU business. This would be examined and corss examined. You are asking me to do exactly what you telling everyone off for doing and that is provide you with proof. All I am saying is it looks like he a questions to answer - if he doesn't then he, and you, have nothing to worry about now do you.

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 04:21 PM

jaycee

The MSM. are unwilling to rub with the Jackson accusations because of fear...fear of being sacked!..I suggest someone create a "eletronic white feather" that we can send to those cowardly journalists who deserve it!

jaycee

May 30. 2012 04:30 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Twitterati for your enjoyment

everyone is having fun with the Abbott/Pyne run

david ewart‏@davidbewart
"@joshgnosis: Oh, there's a GIF of Abbott fleeing parliament now. http://bit.ly/LFdhrj"; he had too many clothes on to get up speed

Tony Abbott and Chris Pyne running to abstain for a vote this morning after Craig Thomson crossed the floor to vote with the Opposition.
www.facebook.com/photo.php runs away from 'tainted' vote

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has sprinted from the chamber to avoid controversial MP Craig Thomson's vote.
www.skynews.com.au/.../

Tainted vote: Sometimes I feel I’ve got to… run away, Malcolm Farr, The Punch
In the first, the Opposition Leader tried to escape the chamber but was trapped by a locked door for too long. He eventually made it out but too late. The official and eternal Hansard record now shows the vote of Mr Abbott sitting alongside that of Mr CR Thomson.
www.thepunch.com.au/.../
Margaret‏@Margy011
Well done PM answering Abbotts question He looks a total fool now

Gump‏@Gump5000
“@NationalTimesAU: Judith Ireland reports that Tony Abott has conceded the carbon tax would be hard to unwind www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120530-1zipw.html” #auspol

Carry_On‏@C_L02
Wouldn't it have been good if Abbott and Pyne had kept running this morning and didn't come back.We can only dream.. #auspol

Le Grace‏@bow_and_arrow
Robb and Hockey gone #qt

archiearchive‏@archiearchive
@davidlen2 The Tony Abbott Run Limerick, archiearchive.wordpress.com/.../

Crikey.com.au‏@crikey_news
Keane: Run, Abbott, run! The spectacle of Tony Abbott attempting to flee the House of Reps not exactly a dignified look http://bit.ly/JM1Q2H

Josh Taylor‏@joshgnosis
Oh, there's a GIF of Abbott fleeing parliament now. http://bit.ly/LFdhrj

Sabra Lane‏@SabraLane
ABurke warns TAbbott not to challenge her.

ManO'Steel(town)‏@berkeleyboy
Quote of the Year "I think the Parliament should not be abused either" #Abbott #qt #hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Marian Dalton‏@crazyjane13
Pyne finally leaves, as Bronwyn B continues her harangue from her seat. #qt

Latika Bourke ‏@LatikaQT
Bronnie told to sit down but still attempts. Anna tells her to go away. #qt

paddy bts‏@paddybts
Huge celebration as Pyne booted for being Pyne. #QT

Marian Dalton‏@crazyjane13
Pyne is *finally* booted under 94A, but Abbott wants to fight for him. Anna says sit down. #qt

Doktor_Über‏@Doktor_Uber
MT @lyndalcurtis Christopher Pyne joins Joe Hockey and Andrew Robb outside the chamber. #qt Pyne can't stop MINCING, Joe eats 15 pies

Latika Bourke ‏@LatikaQT
Lots of Oppn MPs claiming to have misrepresented in #qt today…

Possum Comitatus‏@Pollytics
Albo's playing with them when they're cranky! Roflol!

Marian Dalton‏@crazyjane13
Julie Bishop is told to sit down, refuses to do so. Call is given to Albo, who tells her to sit down. She plays chicken, and wins. #qt

SmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

May 30. 2012 04:39 PM

LadyInRed

BSA Bob - yes there was a video with it. A news report followed by the scampering - or panicked headlong flight as you so rightly describe it. And the speaker telling them to shut the doors and get back in here....and Hockey having a whinge at not being allowed to scamper and having to take Thomsons vote and her telling him it doesn't work that way.....parliament decides who can and cannot vote - a rare moment of absolute hilarity at the complete expense of the oppo. Sorry Ad astra I know it is also terrible to bring the house into hilarity (disrepute), the people of Dobell deserve better - but it was funny. And Thomson's lovely youthful smile was a great site to see.

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 04:42 PM

Tom of Melbourne

So Michael, exactly what does all that have to do with Craig Thomson? It’s interesting mud, and if Kathy Jackson has done anything that deserves prosecution – fine with me!

But have you heard? She isn’t in parliament!!, whereas Thomson is.  That’s why the behaviour of a community leader, an MP on the public payroll ought to be of more interest than a union official.

Jackson may have to explain her remuneration, and that’s fine with me, but Thomson has plenty to explain.

Michael, are you able to provide an explanation as to how Lawler managed to exert such authority over the FWA report?

Tom of Melbourne

May 30. 2012 05:07 PM

NormanK

LadyInRed

Don't feel bad about having a good laugh at Abbott's expense.
The footage is part of Ten Qld's News and I found myself laughing out loud. Again.
"Lock the doors!"
That's the take-away line from this incident. The penny only just dropped that Albo used that line when offering advice to small businesses when they see Abbott coming - "Lock the doors!"
Priceless! Smile

NormanK

May 30. 2012 05:23 PM

LadyInRed

NormanK everytime I think of it I have a chuckle - so much meanness from the opposition, so little empathy, and so much feigned empathy, so much bullying and despair it was a treat to get a real laugh at their expense. I can't wait to see the news tonight. I hope they bring up Pyne saying he got out faster than a gazelle - the SMH Katherine Murphy had a very nice video clip of a Thompson gazelle just getting away from a cheeter - priceless.

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 05:27 PM

LadyInRed

NormanK have a look at the pickies in Murphy's blog. The gazelle clip is around 10:32am

www.smh.com.au/.../...-30-2012-20120530-1zi4p.html

LadyInRed

May 30. 2012 05:36 PM

NormanK

BSA Bob

YouTube to the rescue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osID-_Zi-1I

NormanK

May 30. 2012 05:46 PM

Ad astra

BSA Bob
I guess ‘scampering’ was too polite a description of Abbott and Pyne’s egress from the chamber today.  Perhaps ‘comical flight’ or ‘risible exit’ or ‘childish hide and seek’ would have done better.

QT was notable once more for the paucity of Opposition questions on policy, and the superfluity of questions designed to embarrass, catch out, trip up or put down PM Gillard and her ministers.  None succeeded.  There were several questions querying who said what, to whom, and when about Enterprise Migrant Agreements, all designed to embarrass the Government and represent it as ‘dysfunctional’.  None unearthed anything.

Joe Hockey, Christopher Pyne and Andrew Robb were thrown out; the Member for Durack was forced to withdraw a comment directed at Andrew Wilkie that he ‘should go back to Tasmania and rot’; Tony Abbott was required to withdraw an offensive remark; and the PM had to withdraw her remark that she would resume talking after a noisy interruption, ‘now that the LOTO had control of himself’.

I noticed that the words ‘destructive negativity’, ones we have used here on TPS for years, were used repeatedly by Julia Gillard and her ministers, who blasted the Opposition relentlessly, often using the phrase ‘This Leader of the Opposition’, in the same way as Tony Abbott uses ‘This Prime Minister’.  It was gratifying to see the compliment returned.

While the Opposition pounded the Government with Abbott-like wildly flailing arms, the Government punched back tellingly, leaving the Opposition floundering and fuming.  Abbott looks more sullen and desperate by the day.  He is being beaten at his own game and he doesn’t like it.  Julia Gillard reminds me more and more of ‘P.K.’ in Bryce Courtenay’s The Power of One, and Tony Abbott of the school bully, ‘The Judge’, who cruelly and persistently harassed P.K.  But  P.K. learned how to box and outfought The Judge in many a fight, and in a final desperate fight several years later The Judge was finally and terminally defeated.

Ad astra

May 30. 2012 05:53 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
What a fascinating Twitterati, and what a comical and disrespectful event they ping.

Tony Abbott is looking more childish by the day.  It should make a hilarious clip on all TV news tonight, showing Abbott’s silliness for all to see.

Ad astra

May 30. 2012 06:51 PM

Jason

ToM,
   As you like to be "outraged" on other peoples behalf!
You better start pestering ACA with your "borrowed high moral ground".

  ACA's statement in relation to the Craig Thomson investigation is as follows:

A CURRENT AFFAIR INVESTIGATION IN RELATION TO CRAIG THOMSON

As has been previously reported, A CURRENT AFFAIR has been conducting an investigation into allegations against Federal MP Craig Thomson in relation to his former position at the Health Services Union.

Our investigation is now complete.

The Victoria Police Fraud and Extortion Squad are presently conducting a criminal investigation in relation to Craig Thomson and we have supplied evidentiary material in our possession, resulting from our enquiries, to Police, to assist them in their on-going investigation.

We now await the outcome of the police investigation before pursuing the story any further.

Grant Williams
Executive Producer
A CURRENT AFFAIR
aca.ninemsn.com.au/.../thomson-investigation

Jason

May 30. 2012 06:52 PM

TalkTurkey

Snotty Joe and Abbortt are droobs
As spineless as floppy old boobs,
And I'll take no rebuttal -
They don't run, they scuttle -
Like horrid wee crabs in your pubes!

Not very uplifting TT [/i[i]]!

Yeah well neither are those scenes of them scuttling.

well hsng on

They sure uplifted me! Smile

Great works Craig Thomson,

By the way Comrade I'm not perfect myself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Today was a good day for me until the news moments ago that Julian Assange has lost his appeal against extradition to Sweden.

Well I hope all those who don't like him because he didn't please them in one way or another are happy, and I hope you'll be happier still when he is rendered to the USA.

Because I'm shit-scared for him, and if *J*U*L*I*A* doesn't now do all in her power to bring him home I will forthwith agitate for her removal as PM. This is not a new position for me.

Her position so far has been complicit and I do not honour her for that. And regulars here will realise what a wrench that is for me to say that.

Assange is not a hero of mine, nor is he a villain to me.

He is an Australian and a human.

80% of Australian people support Assange says someone on ABC 24.

Peter Hartcher is now speculating on the death penalty for Assange.  

TalkTurkey

May 30. 2012 07:42 PM

2353

Sorry BSA Bob - I prefer "scampering".  It gives me (who can't watch QT live) an impression of the action taken which could be likened to maybe a crab running across a beach trying (usually unsuccessfully) to outrun the tide; or a squirrel happily grasping a nut to take back to it's stash (because it knows that winter will come sooner or later).

It amuses me also to read people justifying the actions of Jackson and her "squeeze" as they are not in Parliament.  One of them has a public position through being a Union Leader (and therefore accountable for the expenditure of members funds - which certainly seems to be an issue at the moment), the other is a member of the judiciary and should be well aware of the need to not only be impartial, but to be seen to be impartial.

Obviously Channel 9 can't find anything scandalous enough through their investigations to run a story on their electronic tabloid show.  "Giving something" to the Victorian Police is a very nice "out" for them.

It was also nice to see Jeffery Robinson give Ullmann a lesson in interviewing on 7:30 while I was typing this.  Robinson just kept talking Smile.  Funnily enough, he's now giving Mal Bough a polite hearing while Brough is trying to re-write history on Intervention in the NT.

2353

May 30. 2012 08:33 PM

jaycee

Watched the farcical scramble by the members of the opp' today....could it be remarked that the sudden scampering of the members was due to the "Laxettes" having suddenly taken effect!!?

jaycee

May 30. 2012 08:54 PM

Tom of Melbourne

It’s funny, we have people insisting that we suspend judgement about Thomson’s fitness to be an MP, because he hasn’t been convicted of a criminal offence that carries a 12 month gaol term.

But then we have Lawler being pilloried/condemned as a conspirator, somehow, without any evidence.

”the other is a member of the judiciary and should be well aware of the need to not only be impartial, but to be seen to be impartial

So people are willing to condemn Lawler for what appears to be, at worst, poor judgment.
----------------
I’d imagine you’d be happy with that outcome Jason.

Tom of Melbourne

May 30. 2012 09:01 PM

Patriciawa

I've been without internet for a day or so and still have a reading backlog to catch up on - I saw Lyn's reference to your lovcly succinct and expressive lines, TT -

Narrow the eyes!
Set the Jaw!
Double the Fist!
For this is WAR!


Yes indeed.   Serious stuff.  Roll up the sleeves!  But then I saw all those comments about Pyne and Abbott 'scampering' like rats from the House and giving Craig Thomson cause to smile and decided I'd have a giggle instead.

YOu did a great job for Casablanca by the way.

Sell and tell for me brings up a certain 'aroma'.....so far

Patriciawa

May 30. 2012 09:04 PM

jaycee

TOM...Haven't you got a school hall or two to fit out?...I remember when my kids went to a catholic school, I, being a building tradie, was frequently called upon to "contribute toward" building projects.
You see, what they do, is get the basic structure built by a "general building" contractor and then call on the parents to finish it off....then brag about how the private system can get more "bang-for-buck" than the govt'...simple eh?
Now off you go Tom and HANG THAT DOOR!

jaycee

May 30. 2012 09:04 PM

tiffany232

Gees Tom.  Haven't you worked out you're out of step and out of time yet. As much as I hate to use bad  language, you're a bit of a dick really.M

tiffany232

May 30. 2012 09:35 PM

Jason

ToM,
   Were you on the P&C at Mowbray? Did they get a performing arts center? Or nothing to see here folks move along.

One of the largest private schools in Melbourne's outer western suburbs is facing closure after racking up debts of $18 million, leaving more than 1000 students in the lurch.

Read more: www.theage.com.au/.../...-debt-20120529-1zgp1.html

Jason

May 30. 2012 10:15 PM

Cuppa

Abbott the a coward and empty vessel
All Spin and words that are weasel.
Why's he stupid and inane?

He just is, and that's all I'm sayin'.

Cuppa

May 30. 2012 10:30 PM

jane

ToM, has Thomson been charged with a criminal offence? Your boo hooing about Lawlor is nearly as hypocritical as Liealot's crocodile tears and ludicrous "refusal" to accept Thomson's vote.

You say Thomson has plenty to explain. He has already done so to the House. If you don't like, it too bad.

Lawler is an officer of the court. If you think that any wrongdoings on his part are insignificant, think again.

The same goes for Jackson. She grabbed that position of considerable power, but it does not go without obligations to the members and judging by their complaints about her, she pays little respect to them or the position she holds.

In fact, your outrage wrt Thomson would hold a little more water if it extended to the likes of Mirabella who [b]is[/] the subject of legal action wrt her grubby money grab of Colin Howard's estate, Liealot himself (defamation), Sean Edwards misleading and deceptive conduct to the tune of $400,000, MJ Fisher, convicted of assault and now trying to stick the tax payers of SA for her court costs.

Any outrage about that little lot, ToM? Should they be drummed out of Parliament? After all at least one of them has been convicted of assault and the others are subject to action, so by your reasoning, shouldn't they all resign their seats?

Or doesn't REAL criminal behaviour by Liars party MPs and Senators bother you at all?

Patricia, re Craig Thomson in Parliament today; I think he was enjoying himself. He had the cheekiest smile on his face. Watching Liealot scuttling around banging on the doors to get out, behaving like a child of three, must have been the best day he's had in a long time.

Good on him, I say.

jane

May 30. 2012 10:53 PM

BSA Bob

I looked at most of the 6-7pm news bulletins to see how they'd play Abbott's attempted high speed decampment, & sure as eggs the ABC made the most effort to be nice to him. They employed what I think is their standard line when Abbott & his crew come a cropper, which is to drag in the ALP on a "they're all as bad as each other" basis. Maintaining this on 7.30.
Besides the general hilarity of it all, I find the most remarkable thing about this is that Abbott & his crew were taken so completely by surprise. All that swaggering bluster so easily upset, forcing them to yet again rely on easy media treatment. All that grandstanding about precisely this situation & no planning at all as to how to deal with it from the man who thinks running Australia's not such an effort, just vote him in & he'll have a think about it.

Norman K & Lady in Red
Thanks for your responses re the footage.

2353
We must agree to disagree. I'll stick with "panicked headlong flight". "The work of a master's legs" as Stephen Crane puts it. Though I rather fancy "scuttled" to describe his later efforts to  remove himself.

BSA Bob

May 30. 2012 11:02 PM

jaycee

As regards "the Py/bott scramble", could someone with the skills put it to the theme music of the "Benny Hill Show"...you know : "Da,da, duhduhduhduh...!" replete with the speeded up and wind-back style...?

jaycee

May 30. 2012 11:16 PM

Jason

jaycee
      http://www.twitvid.com/73IIU

Jason

May 30. 2012 11:41 PM

jane

ToM you've been prepared to condemn Craig Thomson with only rumour gossip and innuendo for "proof", so why the concern about Lawler? After all rumours are proof enough of wrong doing for you.

And wasn't Jackson the one making all the accusations against Thomson? Seems like she's been a bit free with Union funds and from reports is the one members are dark on.

jane

May 31. 2012 07:22 AM

Lyn

TODAY’S LINKS

Where is the middle ground on IR?, Greg Jericho, The Drum
many Australians neither wish to move to due to the costs (economic and social) of living in those areas, nor fly in/fly out of due to the disruption it creates for families.But most importantly, the foreign workers are being brought in to work on the Roy Hill project
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4039940.html

Dead Friend, Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery
Anna Burke fought emotion as she rebuked the house in regards to the use of their language. She also told the house that she had just spent the weekend with the family of Greg and she would prefer and they prefer that the parliament not resort to such tactics
ashghebranious.wordpress.com/.../

Run, Abbott, run! Tony sacrifices dignity in House of Reps escape attempt, Crikey
The spectacle of the leader of the opposition and alternative prime minister attempting to flee the House of Representatives chamber this morning, even to the extent of hammering on the doors to be let out, adds a particularly undignified note to the farce which the Craig Thomson affair has become. Only, in this case it is one that is entirely of Abbott’s making
.www.crikey.com.au/.../

The moment that Craig Thomson Pwned Tony Abbott, Turn Left 2013
While the Leader of Opposition running to the doors to avoid voting is fun to watch, it doesn’t say much for the man who thinks he should be the Australian Prime Minister. Abbott was ordered back by Anna Burke, the Speaker, because Tony was just too slow
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

Kathy Jackson. Journos as cannibals. Investigative bloggers, Leonard Cohen,Jennifer Wilson, No place for Sheep
And so to Peter Wicks’ latest expose of Kathy Jackson, her partner Michael Lawler, the HSU & FWA. Wixxy is doing an extraordinary job of investigative blogging without any of the resources or protections afforded to mainstream journalists.
noplaceforsheep.com/.../

Portrait Of A Perfect Pollie, Max Atkinson, New Matilda
No one should be very surprised, because Liberal Party philosophy is clear: it does not acknowledge egalitarian values. There is no recognition, either in principles set out in its constitution or in the summary of "beliefs" posted on the official website,
newmatilda.com/2012/05/30/portrait-perfect-pollie

Assange loses appeal – but stays in limbo, Bernard Keane, The Stump
The stay will delay any immediate moves to extradite Assange to Sweden, but leave him in the legal limbo he has been in since late 2010. The Swedish investigation of Assange and the financial blockade of WikiLeaks by Visa, Mastercard and PayPal
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/

News That’s Fit To Punt –,Art Neuro Weblog
won't go away because the Coalition - in their retarded bully minds - think that if they can get Craig Thompson to quit, then there would be a by-election and hey presto, they get that seat and with the government. What they don't seem to get is that the destruction of Craig Thompson's life through trial by media, as engineered by the Coalition,
artneuro.wordpress.com/.../

Enterprise Migration Agreements – why won’t Australians do the work, Peter McDonald, The Conversation
Mining companies themselves, of course, will provide incentives to workers to come on board with their companies. It is highly likely that other states and territories would object to a policy approach that encouraged residents of State X to move to Western Australia.
theconversation.edu.au/enterprise-migration-agreements-why-wont-australians-do-the-work-7345

Live Minutes - HouseHouse of Representatives Draft Minutes
SUSPENSION OF STANDING AND SESSIONAL ORDERS MOVED  Mr Hockey, 9:01:21 AM asked leave to move a motion.Objection being raised, leave not granted.
www.aph.gov.au/.../Live_Minutes_-_House

The ABS cull - the stats headed for the tip, Peter Martin
Job vacancy figures, capital expenditure figures and building approval counts are set for the chop in a major shakeup of what the Australian Bureau of Statistics does,
http://www.petermartin.com.au/

Analyse this, Miglol, Café Whispers
So when is someone from the mainstream media going to pull their head from out of their Murdoch infested arse and shout: “Houston, we have a problem. The alternate Prime Minister ISN’T GOOD ENOUGH. See for yourself. Analyse something”?
http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/

TODAY’S FRONT PAGES
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 31 May 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Video:

Posts from the ‘Daily Fix’ Category
australianpoliticstv.org/category/daily-fix/

Tony Abbott (and Christopher Pyne) running from Parliament to avoid accepting Craig Thomson's , You Tube
Tony Abbott (and Christopher Pyne) running from Parliament to avoid accepting Craig Thomson's vote.
It should be reminded that political parties don't accept votes – Parliament
www.youtube.com/watch

Lyn

May 31. 2012 07:28 AM

2353

BSA Bob,

"Scuttled" is good - sounds like the cockroach racing for percieved safety under the cupboard if you turn the kitchen light on at night Smile

"The Project" on Channel had fun with it and that annoying Kiwi on 10 Breakfast was very critical.  LOTO's actions yesterday got noticed for all the wrong reasons - although if you believe any publicity is good publicity . . .

2353

May 31. 2012 07:32 AM

2353

Jason,

Someone's just told me the "Today Show" had the footage to the tune of "Run Rabbit Run"

2353

May 31. 2012 08:32 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

May 31. 2012 08:38 AM

jaycee

Thanks, Jason...What a laugh!....I say if we have to put up with Sen' Abetzs' droning, slow motion accusations, Sen' Brandis' yapping ludicrousies and Mr. Abbotts crow-like ;"Ahh, Ahh!!s"...then we should be able to keep this going for a couple of months!

jaycee

May 31. 2012 09:08 AM

janice

G'day everyone.

Finally I have been allowed entrance through the doors of The Political Sword. Smile  Now it is going to take me a week to read all I've missed.

It was deliciously hilarious to watch the spectacle in parliament yesterday when Abbott & Pyne did their stampede.  What a lot of clowns sit on the Opposition benches.

janice

May 31. 2012 09:18 AM

TalkTurkey

Dear 2353
You may notice that TalkTurkey was first on this thread to thank Web Monkey for his work, that TalkTurkey was first to apply the term scuttle to Pyne and Abbortt's motion, and that TalkTurkey was first to bring the Run Rabbit Run reference and link to political discourse in the WBL via this site some months ago.

I see that in all three of these small matters, on this thread alone you have chosen to address others as if they have been first to mention them. Now, TalkTurkey is always diligent in attribution of originality, in matters large and little. He would not bring this up this ordinarily, but it begins to look like part of a pattern. TT claims that the only time you find yourself able to address him directly is to accuse him of like bullying or abuse him for rudeness, and he is becoming quite distressed at what he reckons appears to be bigotry and hypocrisy on your part.

He would like me to point out that this is not to detract from others whom you have mentioned wrt these subjects, but to ask you to address him at least with the respect due to the originator of any given idea, rather than to ignore his input and address instead those who come later.

Thanking you in anticipation,
                               I am,
                                      Yours faithfully, etc,
                                               LiarBird


TalkTurkey

May 31. 2012 09:19 AM

42 long

Abetz's questioning seems to be more along the lines of 'suggesting" a scenario ans requiring agreement.
  Looks like "VERBALLING" to me. What sort of a country will we get with these people leading it?  

42 long

May 31. 2012 09:45 AM

BSA Bob

Talk Turkey
After re examining your posts, I concede you the honour of the first use of "scuttled".

Another Stephen Crane quote;
"the youth ran"

BSA Bob

May 31. 2012 10:48 AM

2353

TT, whatever rocks you boat.  

My comments were in relation to media (and this blog's esteemed blogmaster) usage of terms, video and music.  If it vitally important to you to be acknowledged as the first to use these terms as far as I'm concerned you were - it makes no difference to me.

2353

May 31. 2012 10:57 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad and Everybody

Twitterverse for you, there is so much available this morning I had to tell myself to quit it:-

Frances Farmer‏@nikki_telfer
It takes a brave Prime Minister to remind a mining industry that they don't actually own what's in the ground, they have a contract to dig.

Brad A‏@ThePatrician
Thank the saints! Refreshing critical analysis.#notanal @Jackthelad1947: Circus in the chamber is a bloody game http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/-1zjbk.html";

julie boyd‏@jboyded
The National disgrace of Abbott's bolt . Excellent article by Tony Wright www.theage.com.au/.../...ebate-20120530-1zjj1.html

Turn Left‏@turnleft2013
is the Gazelle poking his tongue out at Anna Burke - www.smh.com.au/.../...l-debate-20120530-1zjj1.html or is that a trout pout gone horrible wrong

Xavier Gale‏@galekxy
Interesting perspective on disgraceful Coalition antics  And they talk of respect for parliament!

Iain Smith‏@TrubbellAtMill
Chicken Run #TonyAbbottMovies

paddy bts‏@paddybts
Gold! RT @danielbowen: Hilarious: Sports commentary meets politics RT @GerardWhateley The Abbott Dash http://bit.ly/JMqNLB #auspol

visivoz‏@visivoz
Unedifying sight. Will come back to haunt him. Butt of humour evermore. MT @wolfcat: Abbott running away saga... www.wolfcat.com.au/.../

Tony Abbott the self-described “big scary man” (video)
From Wil Andersons ‘Gruen Nation’ comes this – Tony Abbott scaring babies.  turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

Lyndal Curtis‏@lyndalcurtis
(Wilkie motion at the start of the speech here: www.andrewwilkie.org/.../...ge_churches_motion.pdf

Panama Taylor‏@Carg0_Cult
Christopher Pine defends Coalition principle not to accept 'tainted vote' m.sbs.com.au/.../ #auspol #QT

Panama Taylor‏@Carg0_Cult
However HESTA Board member disclosure shows HSU leader Kathy Jackson remuneration (FY 10/11) as follows: www.hesta.com.au/.../...af-b4e5-6ebee6479d70-2.PDF #auspol

TheFinnigans天地有道人无道‏@Thefinnigans
The $3.4 million Gold Creek Environment Centre, built as part BER is on UN World Environment Day finalist - ministers.deewr.gov.au/.../gold-creek-named-finalist-world-environment-day-awards - A BISON

Mr Denmore‏@MrDenmore
Study shows nation's economic resilience www.smh.com.au/.../...silience-20120529-1zhh3.html via @smh

Melissa Clarke‏@Clarke_Melissa
Oakeshott: With current discourse in Aust, you'd think parliament worse than PNG, economy worse than Greece, electricity worse than NKorea.

Dafid‏@davidlen2
Looks as if 'The West' newspaper's love affair with WA bungling boring Premier Barnett is over au.news.yahoo.com/.../

Equitist‏@OzEquitist
@visivoz Found missing Abbott Minerals Council speech here (suggest lots of ppl save it b4 it magically-disappears): au.nykom.com/.../tony-abbott-speech-address-to-the-minerals-council-of-australia

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

May 31. 2012 11:24 AM

TalkTurkey

PYNE !

(Scroll down to second photo)

www.facebook.com/.../274330505796#!/photo.php?fbid=338967032838042&set=a.158304217570992.36145.134265633308184&type=1&theater

Manners maketh Man eh!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  

Attribution is manners too

Whoso readeth, let him understand.

TalkTurkey

May 31. 2012 11:33 AM

LadyInRed

re Lyns posts:

The café whispers article was a great one Lyn – so true. If ordinary citizens can ask poignant questions of the opposition that shine a light on their budget reply speech, highlighting all the anomalies, it begs the question why can’t the MSM?

The Perfect Pollie – a very interesting read.

Journos as cannibals – what a very good read. Peter Wicks investigative journalism surely show up the msm?

This, I think, was a fair piece of journalism:

www.theage.com.au/.../...-game-20120530-1zjbk.html

I watched 7:30 report last night, and it was interesting to see how they finally pointed out the viciousness against the PM. But I am not sure I like the way the story implied that parliament has gone to the dogs, and in a way it spread the blame, when I really think it has been Abbot's tactics that have taken it down to an unprecented level. To me 7:30 sort of glazed over the antics of Pyne and Abbott yesterday as they tried to flee from the house. Put it this way if I was Abbott and saw that report I would thank my lucky stars that it got such a small attention.

LadyInRed

May 31. 2012 11:46 AM

Tom of Melbourne

Jane, your contortions of logic sprinkled with bitter invective are very entertaining.

You, Patricia and a few others have advanced the most outrageous conspiracy theories without regard to facts.

On the other hand, the points I have made are now entirely endorsed by an independent FWA report.  

Several months ago, it was the finalisation of the FWA report that you and others required before forming judgment! Now that the report doesn’t support your man, you’ve changed your position, and attack FWA.

Jane, the FWA report isn’t rumour and innuendo, it’s the result of a careful and thorough investigation that was mainly supervised by a former ALP political advisor!

As for MJF, I’ve said repeatedly that she has no place in parliament. Not because of her shoplifting, but because she’s just too odd, doing the hokey pokey in the Senate ought to be grounds for dismissal.

Then your favourite Mirabella, she seems to be part of a civil action about inheritance, and I’m not too bothered whether or not she’s drummed out of parliament.

But Mirabella doesn’t have about 200 adverse findings against her from an independent statutory authority. Has she declined to co-operate with law enforcement agencies, on the grounds of self incrimination?

As I’ve pointed out, this is a question of basic honesty, and if Thomson was in any other profession, his employer would have grounds to dismiss him. I’m not as sure about the grounds for dismissal of Mirabella or Fischer.

But keep going, ignore the demands you (and Patricia) have previously made about waiting for the FWA report, and continue to do the “LOOK OVER THERE”, at anyone except Thomson.


Tom of Melbourne

May 31. 2012 11:53 AM

BSA Bob

Lady in Red at 11.33
You've touched on what I admit is a hobbyhorse of mine; the way the ABC desperately tries to spread the blame around when they can't get out of reporting Abbott negatively. "both sides are squabbling over..." is a classic that comes to mind.

BSA Bob

May 31. 2012 11:56 AM

BSA Bob

LadyInRed

Will get yout name spelt correctly in all future correspondence.

BSA Bob

May 31. 2012 12:04 PM

DMW

ToM @ 11:46 AM
... the FWA report isn’t rumour and innuendo, it’s the result of a careful and thorough investigation

Here is the tricky part ToM. There have been doubts raised about the 'fullness' of the information supplied to FWA.

This saga has a very long way to run and will probably not conclude until a Royal Commission is appointed and it finally reports.

I suspect things will become even more ugly for all involved and egg will end up on the faces of many who claim to know the facts at this moment.

Best we all pull our heads in and let it run it's course.

DMW

May 31. 2012 12:09 PM

TalkTurkey

BSA Bob, and LadyInRed,
Yes! On ABC 24 this morning it was so obvious that (the bloke who keeps Carina Carvalho in perpetual simpering mode?) having heard only disgraceful stuff from the Abborttians, then finally just had to say wtte they're all tarred with the same brush. I don't know if that is on iview but it is a classic case. Bastards.  

TalkTurkey

May 31. 2012 12:16 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn, TT
Thank you Lyn for your Twitterverse and TT for your link to the 'Abbott fleeing' cartoon.

What a collection of memorable links - I've saved many of them for future reference.

Currently I'm writing my next pierce: Gillard won't lie down and die, which I hope to have ready for tomorrow.

Ad astra

May 31. 2012 12:18 PM

Ad astra

janice
I'm pleased the new DNS numbers have propagated to your area and that you are back on TPS.  It sometimes takes a few days.

Ad astra

May 31. 2012 12:55 PM

TalkTurkey

Has anyone seen Pyne's Finest Moment (doing the Hokey Pokey with this tongue out at Madam Speaker) on any of the electronic media?

Unsurprisingly, question time later devolved into a spiteful contest shedding little light and less honour upon anything and anybody.

Burke became so exasperated and dispirited she reminded MPs to remember Greg Wilton, a Labor backbencher who committed suicide 12 years ago. She said she had visited the late Mr Wilton's sister at the weekend, and had found the family distressed at the current level of political discourse.

''I'm just cautioning us all to be a little more considerate,'' Burke said.

It was the single moment of the day that Australia's political practitioners had the wit to appear abashed.

Yeah well what Tony Wright didn't mention was that an Abborttian yelled out some insulting jeer about the late Greg Wilton, wtte "not about your dead friend", before the distraught Ms Bourke - evidently a personal friend of the family made her plea for civility. (As if!)

She's alright though is our Anna, just as long as she doesn't contenance such abuse from the word go.

Gee I tell ya what, no  self-respecting teacher would permit a class to behave anything like the misbehaviour of ONE side of the chamber.

Because the other side is our side and it is decent. And all the broad-tar-brushing won't change us, even though it does indeed affect perceptions.

Bastards.    

But be of good cheer Folks, we are lookin' GOOOOOD! Smile





Read more: www.theage.com.au/.../...ebate-20120530-1zjj1.html

F NOT WHY NOT!

TalkTurkey

May 31. 2012 02:07 PM

TalkTurkey

That last post of mine got a bit scrambled.

The excerpt commencing 'Unsurprisingly' was of course Tony Wright's

but

IF NOT WHY NOT related to the failure of the electronic media to show
PYNE TONGUE-POKING MADAM SPEAKER!

IS THAT OUTRAGEOUS OR WHAT!

Ad you will be interested to know that for the first time I can ever remember J**** being overtly full-on political, she rang Pyne's office to express in strident terms just what she thinks of that little creep. so did I separately, and *Caitlin* sounded very ashamed of her despicable employer.

There are a lot more women voters in Australia than men. More boys are born but by voting age there's more women, by 70 heaps more women. If we are to get a majority from one gender and not from the other, for Dogs' sake let it be women!

And I'm livid about Pyne's misogynism, how much more should all women be!

We will get you Pyne you little bastard.
You are doing my country down and you will get your comeuppance.
I vow it.

Oh and in that last post I also said

She's alright though is our Anna, just as long as she doesn't contenance such abuse from the word go.

Erm if she doesn't contenance them . . . does that mean she will incontenance them?

GO ANNA! GO ANNA! GO GO GO!

QT starting now. PM remembering Mabo. Hear hear. Bravo.



TalkTurkey

May 31. 2012 02:31 PM

LadyInRed

PM kicking Abbott in the head twice in QT. On top of eveything he has thrown so far. Honestly I wish people who say she isn't able to communcate should see her. Currently kicking Hockey in the head with his fear mongering. Go Julia!

LadyInRed

May 31. 2012 03:05 PM

LadyInRed

Tom of Melbourne, you would get rid of MJF because she is odd, and you don't mind if Mirabella was drummed out just because you don't like her? No wonder you think the alleged dishonesty by Thomson, whether proven or not, is sufficient to get rid of him.

There is a cloud starting to hang over the FWA report - perhaps we should wait and see where it goes. It may go nowhere but I think its too early to say based on what I have read about Jackson and Lawler. Some of the facts about the half million dollars paid to Jackson does give some weight to what Thomson said in parliament.

LadyInRed

May 31. 2012 05:08 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Here is the Twitterati with a few bonus’s thrown in.

Mining because Julia delivered a great speech.

Assange for Talk Turkey and others who are following the case.

Question time was dominated by useless points of order that weren’t points of order .  Tony Abbott’s press conference  “ He agrees with Poker Machines and Gambling  as long as it’s not  Online.  

“Run Rabbit Run” tied himself up in large knots at that Presser.    Wow! maybe he just found out there is more to the Internet than pirated music & movies.

Naomi Woodley‏@naomiwoodley
SabraLane: QT is over. The House rises tonight, back on June 18. Senate Est still continuing.. some scheduled until 11pm tonight

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Julie Bishop says Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is offended by signs of him said to be pinned up in a Minister's office....

Chris Barrett‏@selga55
Go @juliagillard Stick to the billionaires sister #auspol #greed Boom is not yours, PM tells miners www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120530-1zjfb.html via @brisbanetimes

Séan‏@esseeeayeenn
Abbott talks treason to miners: “the case for new investment in Australia by and large simply cannot be made” http://is.gd/06g9yW

TAWNBPM‏@TAWNBPM
Thanks to Tammy Pollard. Watch Ruddock try to defend the Opposition, he fails miserably. www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3514759.htm

Simon Banks‏@SimonBanksHB
Tip for Journos: Policies @joehockeymp fails to cost via the Parliamentary Budget Office -they are the dodgy ones: http://tiny.cc/dsg5ew

Elliot Giakalis‏@ElliotG78
holy crap RT“@TheKouk: Mining investment growth from 2007-08 to 2012-13 is estimated to be 324.5%... yes, 324.5%”

Stephen Koukoulas‏@TheKouk
Non-mining companies should be furious that the miners hijacked the super profits tax. We'd have a 28% comp tax had they supported the govt

Ken ‏@KoenjiEikaiwa
ASIC must treat Hancock Prospecting the same as all other companies & be seen to do so www.theage.com.au/.../...ncock-20120530-1zjhs.html

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Here's Oppn MP George Christensen's statement on drug testing dole recipients: www.scribd.com/.../George-Christensen-Drug-Dole-Release

Stephen Ragell‏@TheAviator1992
It's true, most miners are willing to pay more tax and royalties. The Tories stand alone in their opposition www.smh.com.au/.../...s-miners-20120530-1zjfb.html

SQWOSH.COM‏@SQWOSH
Abbott comes out against online gambling: Tony Abbott has joined Senator Nick Xenophon to condemn any moves to o... bigpondnews.com/.../Abbott_comes_out_against_online_gambling_


QUESTION TIME:-

Tony Burke‏@Tony_Burke
On 1 July it will be clear Tony Abbott spent two years making a great big exaggeration about everything. #qt #auspol

Bernard Keane‏@BernardKeane
Nice work by Combet's staff to put together a full list of Coalition MPs who've invested in the mining industry since last year #qt

Latika Bourke ‏@LatikaQT
combet listing Oppn MPS who've bought shares in Peabody despite Tabbott saying they'd be harmed by carbon price. #qt

AshGhebranious‏@AshGhebranious
Shorten given a question re workplace bullying. Coalition go deadly silent all of a sudden #qt

BT‏@bravotrav
"If there was a TV show called Australia's Greatest Hypocrites they'd be the winners!" - Greg Combet on the Coalition #QT

Stephen Feneley‏@feneleyandco
Julie Bishop positioning the Coalition as defenders of #Assange 's rights is absurd

ASSANGE:-

WikiLeaks‏@wikileaks
WikiLeaks news update: Supreme Court split, orders extradition of Assange, then re-opens case

M Cetera‏@m_cetera
Julian #Assange has spent 539 days detained, despite never being charged with any crime. http://wlcentral.org/standup #WikiLeaks

Latika Bourke ‏@LatikaQT
An audible groan as the Greens Adam Bandt asks about Julian Assange.

The Conversation‏@ConversationEDU
Another twist to Wikileaks founder Julian #Assange's legal fate @ANUmedia

Jennifer Wilson‏@NoPlaceforSheep
conceravota Assange has not been charged with anything either: Assange in Sweden: the facts: noplaceforsheep.com/.../

Sandra K. Eckersley‏@SandraEckersley
@gerge42 No evidence US chasing Assange: Roxon www.smh.com.au/.../...ge-roxon-20120530-1zioc.html via @smh #auspol

alan rusbridger‏@arusbridger
Joshua Rozenberg explains the Supreme Court's self-inflicted tangle over #assange extradition www.guardian.co.uk/.../assange-extradition-halted

SmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

May 31. 2012 05:14 PM

Lyn


Sorry there is a missing link above so here it is:-

Assange extradition: what next for Wikileaks founder?

theconversation.edu.au/assange-extradition-what-next-for-wikileaks-founder-7389

SmileSmileSmile

Lyn

May 31. 2012 07:02 PM

2353

So ToM doesn't want anyone with any sort of legal problem to sit in Parliament.  Apart from the discrimination that involves (what is the percentage of Australian citizens currently working their way through a legal case as a defendant?), what happens if someone in Parliament is accused of an offence?

Can you imagine the constant by-elections that would happen if all you had to do to get someone booted out of an Australian Parliament was present a civil case against them?  And what happens (as in the case of the Greiner Govt in NSW) when the inevitable happens and someones case is thrown out of court after a Parliamentarian has effectively lost their job?  Can they sue the Taxpayer for loss of income, do they sue the accuser or do they cop it on the chin?

If the answer is "cop it on the chin", who in their right mind would ever go into Parliament - apparently its hard enough to get intelligent people in there now.

2353

May 31. 2012 07:15 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

All I can say is for a troll called Tom, he gets a lot of attention.

Some people only like talking to Tom.

Good on you Tom you are doing fine, just when I thought you were

long gone. Trolling on some other far away blog.

TPS has a topic called Tom.



Lyn

May 31. 2012 07:54 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Lyn, this may well come as a surprise to you, but some people who enjoy political discourse also enjoy the challenge, and the exchange of views with people who don’t always share their own opinion!

Not only that, but you’re the only one who has felt it necessary to resort to personal insults to make a point.
----------------
2353 – ” So ToM doesn't want anyone with any sort of legal problem to sit in Parliament.  

Not exactly, I’m quite happy to retain the current exclusion threshold on criminality.

My point has been more the commentary around the slack pre-selection processes.
---------------
LadyInRed – 
There is a cloud starting to hang over the FWA report - perhaps we should wait and see where it goes.

I’m really not too bothered about all the distractions, perhaps something credible will emerge against Lawler, but the questions I’ve posed regarding his ability to direct/influence the findings of an independent part of FWA are reasonable. So far no one has even bothered to address the,

Tom of Melbourne

May 31. 2012 08:03 PM

TalkTurkey

La Vie en Rose
just to make you cry

Prof. Paul Scott sends me lots of stuff, he says this is old news but I never experienced it before. Help you rememberthat not all Aussies are bogans or worse.

Not sure which link will play you La Vie en Rose, that's the one to listen to.


news.ninemsn.com.au/.../the-voice-leads-nine-resurgence


This is old news now, but not everyone will have seen Rachel.  It's worth watching again anyway!

This young girl Rachel (from Adelaide) was awesome and she is blind from Retinitis Pigmentosa ( a genetic condition). She has a fantastic voice.

  
news.ninemsn.com.au/.../the-voice-leads-nine-resurgence

TalkTurkey

May 31. 2012 08:45 PM

jane

ToM, as I didn't refer to the FWA report at all in my comment, you're either making it up as you go along or you're incapable of actually reading what people write.


jane

May 31. 2012 09:06 PM

Lyn

Hi Jane

Exactly:-

"incapable of actually reading what people write".


Cheers SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

May 31. 2012 09:15 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Jane, I don’t think you’ll deny the accuracy of my comment – ’ Several months ago, it was the finalisation of the FWA report that you and others required before forming judgment! Now that the report doesn’t support your man, you’ve changed your position, and attack FWA.

I think that’s entirely fair, you have attacked Lawer and the report. You’ve changed your position from “awaiting the FWA report” to criticising members of the commission.

…and without a shred of actual evidence.


Tom of Melbourne

May 31. 2012 09:20 PM

NormanK

jane

You have to remember that ToM believes that there is only one author on TPS. The opinion of one is the opinion of the many (indeed all).
We are all just ghost-writers for Ad astra.

Sad to say that on past experience when ToM is presented with a series of verifiable facts he suddenly becomes busy washing his hair.

He still hasn't got back to me with a counter-argument regarding the "too big a stimulus for too long" meme.

NormanK

May 31. 2012 09:26 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I have just posted Gillard won't lie down and die - Abbott's dilemma.  Enjoy.

www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...otts-dilemma.aspx

Ad astra

May 31. 2012 09:42 PM

Tom of Melbourne

I don’t know whether you’ll make yourself popular her by opening up discussion on the stimulus NormanK.

I think we had a very fair exchange on that, probably to the point of getting on the nerves of Lyn.

My basic point though, is that Swan forecast unemployment of 10.5% without stimulus, and 8.5% with the stimulus. This was the justification for the massive spending.

As his forecast proved to be way, way out, I think it is fair to say (on the basis of Swan’s original prediction), it was too big, and went on too long.

Tom of Melbourne

May 31. 2012 09:48 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thanks for another fascinating Twitterati, many reflecting the most interesting and humorous QT for ages, especially Greg Combet's I've been everywhere man,everywhere is doomed man.

Thank goodness we have break from parliament until June 16.

I've been busy writing the next piece, which is now up. I'll now try to catch up on this afternoon's comments.  ToM seems to be taking up a lot of space.

Ad astra

May 31. 2012 09:58 PM

NormanK

No ToM. Swan doesn't generate these predictions - a bevy of highly qualified economists at both Treasury and the RBA predicted a sharp rise in unemployment. If it didn't come about, the counter-argument could well be - "see how well the stimulus worked?"

Since this is the end of the thread let me try again.
Point out to me just where in this economic data there is any indication that the stimulus was too large or too long. Frankly, with the benefit of hindsight, I would argue that perhaps stimulus of the construction industry was withdrawn to early but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Pop back for a quick refresher ToM and get back to me with statistical evidence of your contentions.

www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...of-your-lies.aspx

Unfortunately, I suspect you are all bluster and high dungeon.

NormanK

May 31. 2012 10:26 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Look NormanK, I’m sure you don’t expect me to review all that at the end of a thread.

But the fact is that if the budget is in small surplus this year, Swan will take the credit. If it is in deficit, he’ll accept the political opprobrium. It’s his budget.

If he delivers a budget with an unemployment forecast of 10.5%, it’s no use blaming the economists for the inaccuracy. It was his budget.

But even if I say “have it your way”, the corollary is that the stimulus was still too big and too long given the assumptions that underpinned the massive spending - even if Swan isn’t responsible for the inaccurate forecast.
------------
AA is a dozen comments out of 180 "taking up a lot of space"?

Tom of Melbourne

June 1. 2012 08:01 AM

Ad astra

ToM
Perhaps on the new thread you could use the space you take with an analysis of how this nation would be better off under an Abbott Government, than it is now with the Gillard Government.  I'm sure all voters would like to know.

Ad astra

Comments are closed