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Has Tony Abbott got a Plan B?

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Tuesday, 5 June 2012 15:51 by Ad astra
Plan A has been around since Tony Abbott became Leader of the Opposition – to seize government by any means. Trying to seize government in itself is unsurprising. Trying to achieve that by any means brings into play what Abbott’s ‘means’ comprise. I have said from the beginning of his leadership, starting with The pugilistic politician, written ten days after his ascension and referred to ad nauseam, Abbott’s means are the same as they have always been – smash your opponents quickly, beat them into submission, flatten them to the canvas in the first round, as he often did when he earned his two Blues in boxing at Oxford when on his Rhodes Scholarship.



Cartoon by David Pope, editorial cartoonist for the Canberra Times. © Education Services Australia Limited and the National Museum of Australia 2009.


Abbott describes one of the bouts: “The Blues boxing match was locked 4-4 with the heavyweight to decide it. The Oxford Town Hall was absolutely packed to the rafters with very excited people who, I'm afraid, had been in many cases drinking rather heavily for quite some time. So I got into the ring, determined to hit my opponent harder and more often than he could possibly hit me. I went out like a whirling dervish, kept hitting him again and again and again with just a left, right, succession. And then I got him this magnificent left upper cut and he seemed to go up in the air, across the ring and almost through the ropes. As I said, I could hardly believe it then and I can still hardly believe it. But it certainly made for a spectacular end to the Blue's boxing match that year.”

That reflects Abbott’s Plan A.

From the outset, Abbott has gone out, arms thrashing, with five objectives:
- Get a jump on your opponent.
- Go in full bore, like a ‘whirling dervish’.
- Hit your opponent hard, harder and more often than your opponent can hit you.
- Flatten your opponent quickly.
- Destroy your opponent beyond recovery.

If any of you, particularly Coalition supporters, believe this description of the Abbott strategy is fanciful, just look at the facts.

From day one Abbott has been on the attack against the Government and its leader, first Kevin Rudd, then Julia Gillard. He attempted time and again to get the jump on them. He failed.

His strategy has been to use any tactic, no matter how disingenuous, no matter how deceptive, no matter how dishonest, to achieve his aims. He has been a ‘whirling dervish’, arms wildly flailing, hoping to land a lethal blow.

He has hit hard with every opportunity: at mines, factories, fish markets, shopping centres, rubbish dumps, clubs and community meetings, and in the parliament. His messages are consistent: the carbon tax is toxic and will force the price of everything up, and up and up, and will kill off whole industries; now it’s a ‘python’ that will steadily squeeze us to death rather than kill us with a quick and deadly ‘cobra strike’. He insists that the minerals tax will kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs and that the NBN is a massive white elephant. He is adamant that the Government can’t manage money, is addicted to spending and debt, is borrowing $100 million a day, which is putting upwards pressure on interest rates, and that it will never bring in a surplus budget. He scoffs that it cannot stop the boats, but opposes the actions the Government proposes. He declares that Julia Gillard is a liar and cannot be trusted; he continues to poison voters’ minds against her. And so on it goes – you have heard it all so many times. To injure the Government, his scaremongering continues unabated; he talks down the economy and spreads fear, uncertainty and doubt wherever he goes, without concern for the damage to business and consumer confidence he is inflicting.

His intent is to flatten Julia Gillard, to quickly drive her from power, and to use every device to do so. He has overseen the moving of almost sixty motions to suspend standing orders in the House so he can censure, demean, diminish the PM and her Government. He metaphorically swings his arms viciously and at times hatefully to throw her off balance, to put her to the canvas. So far he has failed.

He is on a mission to destroy our PM, her Government and all it is trying to do. When he defeated Malcolm Turnbull for the leadership, he ‘rewarded’ him with the position of Shadow Minister for Communications and Broadband and instructed him “to demolish the National Broadband Network”. ‘Demolish’ was the word Abbott actually used, and he meant it. He wanted the NBN destroyed beyond repair. He has promised to leave a long trail of destruction in his wake if he is elected: repeal of the carbon tax and of course any Emissions Trading Scheme that would follow, repeal of the minerals tax, repeal of the benefits to families, workers and businesses that flow from these, repeal of the private health insurance rebate, and halting the NBN. All of them are destructive – there’s nothing constructive there at all. So far he has failed.

So Tony Abbott’s pugilism, born of his belligerent, aggressive nature, and his success as a ‘whirling dervish’ boxer, is an appropriate metaphor for his nature, style, and political behaviour. And ‘dervish’ aligns well with his “Mad Monk’ tag, except that ‘dervish’ usually refers to a Muslim monk!

No doubt Coalition supporters would approve of Abbott’s pugilism, as would some journalists, on the grounds that this is what opposition leaders do, in fact ought to do. The sheer brutality of Abbott’s approach seems not to disturb them, indeed many even applaud it and laud him as one of the most effective opposition leaders this nation has had. It seems that their prime criterion for effectiveness is success in the opinion polls, particularly a strong TPP position for the Opposition. What other criteria have they entertained? Surely not success in blocking legislation, surely not in winning motions to suspend standing orders, surely not rattling Julia Gillard, surely not dismissals from her ministry or the back bench for misdemeanors, surely not getting rid of Craig Thomson, surely not winning over the Independents, surely not precipitating a premature election, surely not rising high in the popularity stakes; in all of these he has been an abject failure. So it’s polls of voting intention that once more get top billing as a measure of success. Yet we all know that as a predictor of voting intention in 2013, contemporary polls are not just useless, but dangerously misleading. That does not deter commentators from using these unreliable data, because it’s all they’ve got to build their stories. We are being conned, but how many realize it?

Returning to Abbott’s Plan A, how far has he got? The first rounds are already over and the more tiring ones are ahead.

So far he has scarcely laid a glove on Julia Gillard, and has hardly got a jump on her. Some would dispute that by pointing out that he has got the ‘liar’ label to stick, the ‘broken promise’ accusation to bite, the ‘untrustworthy’ tag to hang around her neck, and that she is very unpopular in the polls. But could he have done that without the complicity of the media and particularly the rabble-rousing shock jocks who support him, without a media unprepared to challenge his multiple lies, scared to ask the hard questions, too timid to insist that he answer questions instead of walking away, too gutless to insist on properly costed policies from him. With an obsequious media, he has been able to get away with murder, and he refuses to engage regularly with the more confronting media such as the ABC's Q&A and 7.30. So let’s acknowledge that he has achieved some success in typecasting Julia Gillard, but only with the aid of a complicit media, and by avoiding confrontation.

He has certainly gone full bore like a whirling dervish, but what has he achieved? How many times has he ‘hit’ Julia Gillard, and how hard? Has he hit her harder than she has hit back? Watch Question Time for the answer. Check who is ahead on points.

Has he ‘flattened’ her, put her on the canvas? When? Where? How?

More importantly, what has he destroyed? Not much.

He probably feels he has destroyed her Malaysian arrangements for asylum seekers, and at least he has thwarted them, as he has perversely thwarted his own plan for offshore processing. No one can move towards that because of his intransigence. It looks like a Pyrrhic victory. He knows that unless he can command both houses of parliament, his Nauru option too is doomed.

What about his program of post-election destruction? Should he win the 2013 election, would he really be able to repeal the carbon tax? Many have written about the enormous difficulties he faces in getting such a repeal through the Senate, and the complexities, hazards and uncertainty of a double dissolution to overcome an intransigent Senate. Yet he boasted again just this week that the first thing he would do on assuming government would be to repeal the tax. He talks about this blithely, almost flippantly, and no doubt many voters will believe his hairy-chested rhetoric. But the devil will be in the doing. More failure awaits him.

How will he repeal the mining tax? That presents similar difficulties. How will he repeal the benefits these taxes are bringing to pensioners, families, workers, taxpayers, low-income earners and small businesses? How will he counter the backlash that will inevitably come from those who see benefits already in their hands taken away? Has he a contingency plan for this eventuality?

How will he dismantle the NBN? It will be so far advanced and so many contracts already made that the legalities will be overwhelming. And what about the backlash from those who see their opportunities for super fast broadband jeopardized because they are still waiting for the NBN to arrive in their locality? What about the howls of protest from businessmen, farmers, educators and doctors when they see the dazzling technology that would transform their lives denied them? Has Abbott thought this through? Has he an emergency plan for dealing with their anger and frustration?

There’s another problem for Abbott. Even if he could repeal the carbon and mining taxes, how would he make up for the billions of dollars of lost revenue? How will he keep his promise to bring in successive surplus budgets in his first term when he has foregone so much revenue and made so many expensive promises: his PPL, his company tax reductions, his personal tax deductions? It will take more than the shonky accounting we have seen from the Coalition to date. What is so cynical about Abbott’s approach is that he knows full well that he would not be able to make budgetary ends meet without drastic and painful cuts to services, the impact of which would be apparent only if he were elected to power, when the voters who had been conned by his promises into voting for him discovered to their horror that they had been sold a pup.

Abbott does not care at all about these possibilities; seizing power is all he is about. No doubt he reasons he will con his way out of the difficulties he will inevitably face, with more lies and deception, throwing the blame on ‘an incompetent Labor Government that left Federal finances in an awful state, much worse than they revealed before the election’, a Government that has left their ill-conceived plans for hiking taxes so tied up with red tape and contracts that he is unable to undo them. He will not develop contingency plans in advance to deal with these matters; he would simply blame Labor and Treasury and the public service and anyone else he can think of for the mess in which he landed himself, a mess he might have avoided had he thought through his proposed actions and his off-the-top-of-the-head promises, and developed contingency plans to manage them.

Does Tony Abbott actually have a Plan B? If his Plan A fails, his pugilistic whirling dervish plan, as it seems likely to do in a spectacular way, there seems to be nothing else.

To make matters worse, apart from having no obvious contingency plans, he seems to have no affirmative plans either. He has no well-developed and properly costed policies that might appeal to the electorate and provide a plausible alternative to Government policies. He keeps telling us, for more than a year now, that policies are being developed, but they are being so kept under wraps that nobody has had a chance to see them, raising doubts as to whether they really exist.

Were we to be so unfortunate to have him elected as PM, the people of Australia would descend into the slough of despond at his lack of planning, and be pulled down with him into the ditch of destructiveness he has dug, a trench from which he seems to have no Plan B to escape, from which recovery would be slow and painful. Do we want this?

Should the people of Australia have to live with Abbott’s negativity and obstruction, his incompetence, his lack of planning and his obsessive desire to get hold of the keys to The Lodge, no matter how he does it, no matter how many he hurts on the way, no matter how much destruction and mayhem he leaves in his wake, no matter what terrible damage he does to the economy, to the people, to the psyche of the electorate, to the fabric of our society?

This would-be Prime Minister acknowledged only last week that“Gillard will not lie down and die…” The pugilistic politician realizes that in PM Gillard he has met his match. The people should ask what he intends to do next, should demand he reveal his Plan B, if he has one at all.

What do you think?

Comments (340) -

June 5. 2012 04:20 PM

Ad astra

NormanK

What brilliant exposition of the recent report on the Lowy Institute Poll it was that you posted on the last piece.  Thank you.  You know you should be writing original pieces for TPS.



I enjoyed your reasoning, and can see nothing wrong with your arithmetic.  



Why is it left to Fifth Estate bloggers to write such important, lucid and informative articles?  What on earth is wrong with the MSM.  I'll lay long odds that its appraisal of the report will be superficial, cherry picking the 'juicy' bits, and failing completely to provide anything as valuable as you have written.



So that no one misses this great piece of analytical writing, please post it also on this piece, and 42 long and jane, could you please post your responses here too.

Ad astra

June 5. 2012 04:24 PM

Mandy Mack

Excellent summary of events so far, and linking his approach to politics with his stated boxing strategies is a stroke of genius. I join you in hoping that Tony Abbott will NEVER be Prime Minister. We are in deep doggy doos if he ever gets the keys to the lodge.

Mandy Mack

June 5. 2012 04:30 PM

Ad astra

Mandy Mack
If I’m right that you haven’t been here before, welcome to The Political Sword family.  Do come again.

Thank you for your complimentary remarks.  You are right – we will be knee in it if Tony Abbott ever gets his hands on the Keys to The Lodge.

Ad astra

June 5. 2012 04:53 PM

NormanK

More evidence, if we needed it, as to why we should place very little reliance on commercial opinion polls. The Lowy Institute Poll (skilfully provided to us by Lyn) has sections on the Emissions Trading scheme and Dealing with climate change.

www.lowyinstitute.org/.../lowy-institute-poll-2012-public-opinion-and-foreign-policy

The detail is well worth a look. All figures are as a percentage of overall respondents and not a percentage of a sub-group (if I understand it correctly).

In November 2011, the Australian government succeeded in passing climate change legislation through the federal parliament.  However, there is considerable public opposition to the government’s climate pricing system. The majority (63%) of Australians say they are against the legislation ‘introducing a fixed price on carbon that will then lead to an Emissions Trading Scheme’, with a high proportion (45%) ‘strongly against’. Just a third (35%) are ‘in favour’.

The 63% of Australians who say they are against the legislation were presented with three statements and asked ‘whether you agree or disagree it is a reason why you personally are against the legislation’. Half the population (52%) oppose the legislation and agree it ‘it will result in job losses’. Thirty-eight per cent say ‘it is not necessary to act before other countries’. However, a third of the population oppose the legislation and say it does not go far enough, with 33% agreeing ‘the measures are not strict enough to result in substantial emissions reductions’.


To summarise in a format that we would normally get from a commercial poll:
Against: 63%
For: 35%

And yet when further questions are asked we find that 33% of the 63% who are against the current scheme declare that their objection is that the scheme doesn't go far enough. If the CEF scheme is not sufficiently robust for them I think it is reasonable to assume that the Coalition's DAP (modelled at around $10 per tonne) would also be unacceptable. If push came to shove and this 33% were told they could have either the CEF scheme, the DAP or nothing, I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume that the vast majority of them would opt for the strongest of the three proposals.

So if, for arguments sake, two-thirds of the 33% against the government's carbon pricing scheme opted for it as the only plan that will give them a halfway decent outcome we have: 66% of 33% = 21.78%. Let's call it 20%.

New figures would be:
Against: 63% - 20% = 43%
For: 35% + 20% = 55%

Even if we allow for the perversity of human nature and contend that 15% (not 20%) would opt for the current scheme as being the best alternative when their options are narrowed, we get:
Against: 63% - 15% = 48%
For: 35% + 15% = 50%

Not such a bad outcome before the scheme is brought into practice and voters have an opportunity to have their fears allayed. Encouraging for the government is that if evidence becomes more readily available that more and more countries and constituencies around the world are adopting carbon pricing schemes, there is a very real chance that a significant proportion of the 38% Against who felt that we ought not to act ahead of others, might change their position to either indifference or at best a vote for the CEF scheme.

Even those who oppose the CEF scheme because it will result in job losses (i.e. 52%) might well adopt a new position once it becomes apparent that the scheme is not the main driver of future job losses. Contained in this group are the people who are least likely to shift because the FUD approach of the Coalition will not abate after July 1 and every job loss will be blamed on the carbon price.

Never-the-less, we can see that by digging a bit deeper into just why such a significant proportion of respondents stated opposition to the imposition of the current scheme we find that there are contradictions, especially from the 'it doesn't go far enough' group.

To further muddy the waters:

Most Australians (57%) are also in favour of a future ‘Coalition government removing the Emissions Trading Scheme’ if it is elected at the next Federal election, with 38% ‘strongly in favour’.

This would imply that 6% of those who voted against the CEF scheme shifted to a position of not supporting the Coalition repealing it. A simplistic interpretation of this would be to say that of the overall 33% who oppose it because it doesn't go far enough, a full 27% would rather have a weaker scheme than the one that we currently have - cutting off their nose to spite their face. I acknowledge that this is simplistic and unverifiable but there had to be a 6% shift from amongst the groups opposing the CEF scheme. A little less perverse would be for some of those who oppose because we would be leading the world on this reform deciding that they could live with it. Somewhere in the middle of the perversity stakes would be those who feel it would lead to job losses but don't want it repealed anyway.

As if these contradictions were not enough to have you tearing your hair out if you were trying to formulate public policy on climate change action, we have this:

Only a third (36%) of Australians now support the most aggressive form of action, down from two-thirds (68%) back in 2006 who said ‘global warming is a serious and pressing problem. We should begin taking steps now even if this involves significant costs.’
The largest proportion (45%) of Australians now support the intermediate proposition that ‘the problem of global warming should be addressed, but its effects will be gradual, so we can deal with the problem gradually by taking steps that are low in cost’.


So a full 81% of those polled feel we should be taking some reasonable steps to alleviate the causes of global warming. The fact that this figure falls away to 35% support for the CEF scheme indicates to me that the Coalition's fear campaign has been very effective in exacerbating the possible costs and impacts of its imposition and the playing down of the degree to which other countries are acting.

It also seems to indicate that the 45% who support gradual change at low cost do not fully understand the budgetary impacts of the DAP which might spend as much as $1300 per taxpayer to theoretically achieve the same reduction in emissions over a similar timeframe. By comparison, the CEF scheme will have zero to minimal impact on 90% of Australian households with emphasis for compensation placed on the least well-off and it requires no cuts to services.

This should be somewhat heartening for the government as some of this 45% are likely to shift as they come to realise that the CEF plan has minimal impact on their household budget and as the truth comes out about the budgetary impacts of the DAP and the subsequent cuts to other areas of the budget that would need to ensue in order to fund it.

All of the above are just my musings and have no basis in proper statistical analysis. However, it does make two things plain to me.

The lived reality of the upcoming scheme should calm the nerves of some of those who have serious concerns about its impact (cost, jobs, global competitiveness) and the government can take heart from that.

Human beings are strange and fickle creatures (some of whom would reject a half a glass of milk, preferring to risk having none because they wanted a full glass) whose idiosyncratic ways can not be measured by some simple opinion poll.

NormanK

June 5. 2012 05:01 PM

Hal Crossing

He is always quoting Julia about her no Carbon Tax Promise. Is this worse than Howards silence about Work Choices before an election but only emerged when he realised it had a chance in the Senate. It is only proof that Howard was a more cunning liar. Thankfully it destroyed him and got him out of politics

Hal Crossing

June 5. 2012 05:11 PM

Cuppa

It may sound harsh, but I believe Abbott does not have the brains for a Plan B. He'll just do as he's told, by his advisors and the vested interests whose interests he represents. He's no leader, he's a follower of the rich and greedy. He's no statesman, he's a divider and wrecker. He's no conciliator, he's a thug and loose cannon.

What he does have going for him is something most polticians in history would have given their right arms for - a one-party domestic media rivalling North Korea's in its partisanism, intent on propelling him / his party into power and keeping him / them there. If it were not for the efforts of the media in protecting and boosting him, this lightweight would have become history many months before now.

Cuppa

June 5. 2012 05:14 PM

Michael

I suspect that the only "b" Abbott has any idea about is that it's the second letter in his name. Or is it the third?

I doubt he could come to a definitive conclusion on that, either.

More likely he'd just walk away from a question as hard as "B... B... B... which B?"

Dervishes, of course, whirled themselves into a senseless trance - that was the point, to get out of their heads. To hollow out that space between their ears.

In this, at least the dervish tag can be applied to Tony A - he's way out of his head, it's all lip and hip with him, and nobody in the Coalition doing any thinking about what that will mean if future bucks stop at their door.

Michael

June 5. 2012 05:30 PM

Ad astra

Hal Crossing
I think you too are a newcomer, so welcome to The Political Sword family.  Do come again.

Thank you for your comment.  You are right – Abbott clings to Julia Gillard’s  ‘no carbon tax under a government I lead’ utterance like a limpet.  He believes it’s the most potent weapon he’s got, and so won’t let it go.

Ad astra

June 5. 2012 05:39 PM

Ad astra

Cuppa
You may be right, but he was a Rhodes scholar.  My guess is that Peta Credlin and her sidekicks work out most of his strategy and day-to-day tactics.  For his part he follows instructions faithfully and is adept at mouthing and endlessly repeating slogans and the zinger for the day.  I notice that no sooner had Greg Hunt used the ‘python’ analogy, than Abbott was repeating it.  No doubt that originated in the back room of the LOTO’s office.  We don’t whether Abbott has the nous to create a Plan B; perhaps if he did, we might have seen it by now.

Ad astra

June 5. 2012 05:43 PM

Ad astra

Michael
The additional information you have provided about whirling dervishes is germane.

I take your point when you say: ”In this at least the dervish tag can be applied to Tony A - he's way out of his head, it's all lip and hip with him, and nobody in the Coalition is doing any thinking about what that will mean if future bucks stop at their door.”

Ad astra

June 5. 2012 06:08 PM

2353

Geez - if Gillard is putting upward pressure on interest rates, they would have to be zero if the LNP was in power (and Australia would be in the same mess as Europe, Japan and the US).  Bright side, my home loan repayments would go down Smile

Thank you for your wonderfully thoughtful posts AA & NormanK.  I enjoyed every word (and couldn't see any "leaps of faith" NK.  In my opinion, you should also consider writing posts for TPS).  

The link in this post leads to the report of Garry Humphreys - former Howard Minister and now afternoon announcer on the "talk" radio station in Brisbane - 4BC - which simply and easily demonstrates who really runs the LNP in Queensland (and by inference federally).  I have got no idea what Humphreys is like or did "wrong" as I haven't listened to 4BC since it was a Top 40 station in the 70's.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120605-1zts2.html

2353

June 5. 2012 06:09 PM

Miglo

Tony Abbott is too one dimensional to have a Plan B. he is about as dimensional as a cardboard cut-out.

Miglo

June 5. 2012 06:17 PM

Jason

Sorry Ad off topic!

Normank 2353,
Were you aware of this?

Former Howard government minister Gary Hardgrave has been expelled from Queensland's Liberal National Party.

Read more: www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120605-1zts2.html

Jason

June 5. 2012 06:22 PM

42 long

Ad Astra, I aggree the thrust of your article. There are many inconsistencies in the Abbott personality, and I very much fear the path Australia would go down if he is the leader. I feel he would embarrass us enormously. This Rhodes scholar business ( Michael Croger makes much of it,) I don't see much evidence of applied intelligence in Abbott's actions,as , as you point out, it is all or nothing with him. There is NO plan "B".
  Crash through or crash, and  maybe take take the house down with him .
  Months back he told a group he was addressing that he HAD to succeed  this way or his political career would be over. He is realistic about it, but what can this do?
  It can only make him more DESPERATE. There is no way out. He has "boxed" himself into a corner.
   Would a "smart" politition do that? I wouldn't think so.
  Does he have a modicom af a "Statesman" in him? I doubt it.
    The silly dash in the Parl't the other day as foolish as it is may do him a most of harm. After all One of the most damaging things about Mark Latham was the fact that he was known as "That Aussie bloke who broke a cabdriver's arm, around the world.

42 long

June 5. 2012 06:24 PM

Cuppa

Ad Astra,

Yes, apparently he was a Rhodes Scholar. But that was a long time ago - more than half of his lifetime ago. A lot can happen to a person in 30-odd years. We know he's been involved in amateur boxing; has he taken many blows to the head, and what, if any lasting damage has this done to the brain? We know he's drunk to excess at times; has this derprived him of enough brain cells to appreciably impair his functioning? We know he's been involved in a major way with religious dogma; has this resulted in the closing of the mind to concepts that don't accord with a rigid religious worldview? We know he is in many ways intolerant; what does this narrow-mindedness say about his intelligence?

Fairfax columnist, Shaun Carney, recently observed that, as a Minister, Abbott was "determined and dutiful but rarely inspired or creative". While trying to put Abbott in a good light, Carney shied away from praising his intelligence. With good reason, I suspect.

We've seen numerous instances of Abbott unable to think on his feet. The episode with Channel 7's Mark Riley, most notably. Here he was not able to enunciate an answer to a mild (and foreshadowed) question, going instead into a brain-freeze of mute fury that lasted 72 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUdPabnXUNA

In May 2012, when asked why Labor's school cash payments were different to his generous parental leave scheme payments he said: “Well look, they just are.''

www.news.com.au/.../story-fn84fgcm-1226351227396

And we've seen time after time at press conferences, where, with cameras filming, he's turned and walked out rather than face questions that he might find difficult. This habit indicates he is either afraid of the scrutiny, or knows he's not up to speaking off the cuff without gaffes.

Quite frankly, if someone is not capable, or refuses to make themselves accountable (not that the supine media are likely to ask him anything too challenging) they have no business seeking to lead the government of a supposedly liberal democracy.

Cuppa

June 5. 2012 06:39 PM

2353

Jason,

Snap!

A clear demonstration of what happens if you don't toe the party line (unlike Richardson who still is an ALP member I suspect).

2353

June 5. 2012 06:47 PM

Psyclaw

AA

This was another good read. Your endurance in writing these food-for-thought articles is unbelievable. You are a man of great energy and commitment indeed.

I have thought ever since Abbott's elevation that the coalition's Archilles heel is the fact that the good people, the moderates in his team, have been sucked in and blindsided by the adrenalin rush Abbott's pugilism and Pyrrhic little victories along the way.

They have enjoyed the pugilistic ride and the publicity and have focussed on that rather than on examining and evaluating what he actually says and does, and rather than focussing on policy. They have placed all their apples in his crash through basket and soon they will pay the price.

No doubt Coalition supporters would approve of Abbott’s pugilism, as would some journalists, on the grounds that this is what opposition leaders do, in fact ought to do.

One thing that irks me profoundly relates to this quote from AA .

Every time any hint of a negative reflection on Abbott's conduct arises, the journo  will add a gratuitous comment along the lines of "hey! but that's what the LOTO's role is, and he's done it so well". This reflection and rationalisation is daily, is ubiquitous, is careless, is crap.

Fact is Abbott has not done to any appreciable degree what the role of LOTO requires. He has been an abject failure as LOTO.

Here are IMHO some important aspects of the LOTO role:

* always act in the national interest.
* keep the government on track by questioning  their policies and legislation, and by making constructive  suggestions/amendments.
* as the alternate PM be at the ready to take over, policy wise.
* recognise what actions of the government are clearly in the national interest and support them.
* avoid bipartisanship for the sake of bipartisanship.
* honour the conventions of responsible national leadership eg don't talk down the economy; don't talk down industries, and most of all don't "frighten the horses"

Can anyone give Abbott even a bare pass mark on any one of these?

And the irony in all of this is the fact that the Independents only ever gave JG their formal support in regards to motions of confidence in her. They specifically reserved the right to pursue their own policy ends. So the LOTO in this hung parliament would has had ongoing daily opportunity to liaise with the Independents and actually negotiate and pass "opposition" legislation.

I don't believe  that Abbott did not realise this.

He just wasn't interested in constructing anything. All along he has believed that "soon now I'll get rid of her and be PM". As a result he is well on the way to wasting three years believing every day that tomorrow he'll conquer and get the nod.






Psyclaw

June 5. 2012 07:10 PM

archiearchive

It is a truly scary prospect we have in front of us. Most of Australia is already ruled by negative LNP leaders. Not one has a plan for the people. They are all giving to the rich and taking from the poor. There is no reason to expect Abbott to be any different.

We need a Donald Horne to write the new chapter in Australia's history. "Australia; The Unlucky Country".

archiearchive

June 5. 2012 07:11 PM

Gravel

Ad Astra

It makes my heart sink to think of what we could end up with.  As Cuppa said, with all the main stream media behind him, what hope have the people of Australia got to see through him.

Michael

I enjoyed your description of the dervish.  It does describe him perfectly.

recaptcha: truth

Gravel

June 5. 2012 09:13 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
I've been watching the spectacular service from St Paul's Cathedral to commemorate Queen Elizabeth's Jubilee.  What a magnificent spectacle, one the Brits do brilliantly.  Now I'm watching the Concert.

2353, Jason
Thank you for your comments and the link to the Gary Hardgrave dismissal from the LNP.  The enforcers are out.  This foreshadows the style of the Newman outfit, and is a foretaste of an Abboot Government.  Recoil in dismay!

Ad astra reply

June 5. 2012 09:21 PM

Ad astra reply

Cuppa
I agree.  Can you imagine this man taking his place in international fora?  CHOGM, G20, Royal occasions?  What an embarrassment he would be, this man who seems suited only to reciting learned lines, slogans and mindless mantras.  Thinking on his feet is not in his line of business.

Ad astra reply

June 5. 2012 09:24 PM

NormanK

Ad astra

Thanks for another great article. You certainly are prolific.
Although I am no authority on the matter I do have to disagree with the contention that there is no plan B. For all of the scorn that I pour on Tony Abbott, it is simplistic to believe that he lacks intelligence or that he is the only master of his destiny. There are hundreds of people behind him and they no doubt have a plan whereby he will step back from the role of attack dog and leave that to more expendable individuals like Pyne and Morrison. Frankly, it surprises me that this process has not already begun. With such a healthy lead in the polls he could well afford to coast for twelve months, do soft, image-building appearances and limit himself to making landmark speeches full of motherhood statements and weasel-worded promises. At what point he and his team decide to begin this transition is anybody's guess.

A purely subjective observation: there is something very significant going on behind the scenes of the Liberal Party that we might not learn about for months.

Blogs are full of speculation about what will happen after July 1st when the carbon pricing scheme comes into effect. Is there internal Liberal Party polling that shows that this date will prove to be a watershed moment? As we saw from the Lowy Institute poll, there is a significant proportion of the public who could be swayed to a different view of carbon pricing if one or more events were to take place i.e. significant announcements from overseas that show we are not at the forefront of carbon pricing; no indication of a serious cost of living blow-out; and no major job losses in vulnerable trade exposed industries. I make this observation because this may be what he is waiting for before he tries to flick the switch to statesman. If the polls remain dire for Labor he might wish to continue his all-out attack until Christmas. If the polls turn on him he may choose to tone down his attack earlier than that.

Or is there a scandal waiting to blow-up in his face over Thomson? Or Slipper? Or Kathy Jackson? Frankly, I don't know why he hasn't started to back off around about now. It may be a self-awareness that he is extremely vulnerable (mortally so) when it comes to live debate and he might wish to limit such opportunities. While he is full of bluster it is easy and in character to dismiss calls for a debate. If he tries for statesman status he will look cowardly if he repeatedly refuses challenges to debate the Prime Minister.

(As an aside, how astute was it of Bob Brown to suggest a debate between Abbott and Milne on carbon pricing? A woman and a Green - Abbott would be hard pressed to keep the inner-Tony under control and there is no way that he could be across the subject to anything like the degree that Milne is. It would be classic entertainment.)

I don't know what Abbott and his team are waiting for but I have complete faith in the idea that there is a plan B - perhaps several, each depending on what unfolds in areas beyond his control. We underestimate his and his teams cunning at our peril.

I should point out that I have grave doubts about his ability to make the transition to something different but as the polls tighten, as they almost surely must, he will have to go to some other mode of operation.

He and his party are not surfing a wave of popular approval. They are drifting on a tide of unpopular sentiment aimed at Gillard and Labor. If the tide turns .....

NormanK

June 5. 2012 09:36 PM

Ad astra reply

Psyclaw
Thank you for yor complimentary remarks.  It is comments like yours that keep me going.

I agree with your comments about how journalists almost to a person pass up the opportunity to call Abbott for what he is, and rush to make excuses for his inexcusable behaviour. Your list of LOTO obligations is laudable.  What a disgrace it is that Abbott adheres to none of them.

All along he thought he was in for a quick knockout in the first round.  Now he realizes he may have to go the full 15 rounds with a heavyweight.

Ad astra reply

June 5. 2012 09:39 PM

Ad astra reply

archiearchive
Yes, we can see whaf we would be in for with an Abbott Government.  It is up to us in the Fifth Estate to raise our small voices in concert to stop such an abomination.

Ad astra reply

June 5. 2012 09:49 PM

Ad astra reply

Gravel
Before I came across your email about difficulties with the site,  i saw you were on the air again.

Like you, my heart sinks at the thought of an Abbott government.  This is what makes so important our task of alerting any who will listen what we would be in for.   In the process we just might stiffen the spine of journalists to call this man out before it is too late.

Ad astra reply

June 5. 2012 10:29 PM

Ad astra reply

NormanK
Abbott is not unintelligent.  His background attests to that. Moreover, he has a smart team behind him.  They prepare his scripts; he learns his lines and recites them faithfully. His team likely has a Plan B, but is it Abbott's or is it one they have cooked up for him as they cook up his daily spiel?  Has Abbott got his own Plan B?  Perhaps the crucial question is: is he capable of carrying out a plan different from the one he has been carrying out since day one?  Personally, I doubt it.  He is so stuck in his negative mode, that slipping into a statesman-like mode will likely be impossible for him.  His ineptitude at spontaneous responses would leave him like an actor able to recite his lines but incapable of improvisation when something unexpected occurs.  Who could ever forget his Riley episode of stunned muteness.  What aptitude has he shown since becoming LOTO in entering into reasoned debate about policy issues?  When has he ever shown skill in managing awkward questions, uncomfortable propositions?

I agree that it is never wise to underestimate opponents.  My appraisal simply asks the question - what has this man really achieved in his pursuit of the keys to The Lodge?  In my view very little except a strong TPP position for the Coalition, and the  labeling of Julia Gillard.  And what aptitude has he shown for the role of a statesman-like PM?  In my view, very little.  So no matter whether he or someone else has Plan B, a plan that would fit him for becoming PM, is he capable, is he suitable? That is the question.  I see you too have your doubts.

Ad astra reply

June 5. 2012 10:55 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Is there an unpublished editorial policy here?

Tom of Melbourne

June 5. 2012 10:58 PM

TalkTurkey

So Labor's a Python eh.

Well Abbortt's a Crocodile.

Anyway about Pythons, did yez know that they are a favourite food item of the Pygmies?
They make them into Python Pathties.

But sometimes a Python swallows a Pygmy instead.
Then the angry Pygmies hunt the Python down and cut it open, (they always eat their own dead these people), so for a special treat then they have Snake and Pygmy Pie.

Boom Boom. Smile  

TalkTurkey

June 5. 2012 11:29 PM

archiearchive

AHEM! Robert Heinlein had it right. "A 'practical joker' deserves applause for his wit according to its quality. Bastinado is about right. For exceptional wit one might grant keelhauling. But staking him out on an anthill should be reserved for the very wittiest."

TT, I feel keelhauling would be suitable in this case.

(I have been keelhauled many times and occasionally "anthilled".)

archiearchive

June 5. 2012 11:31 PM

Cuppa


There's no doubt in my mind that the brains trust are the ones behind Abbott pulling his strings. He's more the puppet - as Ad astra described him: reciting his learned slogans.

The ability to think on his feet, to compromise and negotiate (all among the essentials required of someone aspiring to high office), don't seem to be in evidence in Abbott.

A most unsuitable character for the job, in myriad ways. Yet the media are intent on propelling him into the job anyway. What a disgrace THEY are.

Cuppa

June 6. 2012 12:26 AM

jane

Good grief, Jason! Who woulda thunk it? Faceless men? In the Liars Party? My God! Next thing we'll find out they're going to impose a carbon tax..........oh wait.

I wonder why the barrackers are deathly silent on Liealot's proposed carbon tax? I suppose it should satisfy ToM, because even though Liealot has said there will be no carbon tax on his watch, it does meet the definition of a tax.

Another great post Ad astra. I'd suggest Liealot hasn't even got a Plan A. And I'm sure he found that Rhodes Scholarship in a cereal box.

As Cuppa points out, he can't even explain the difference between his nanny policy and the government's school kids cash policy. Even more astonishing is that the barrackers don't seem concerned about it.

It's a bit like a doctor who can't tell the difference between a headache and a broken leg.

jane

June 6. 2012 07:30 AM

Lyn


TODAY’S LINKS

Thomson truth clouded by News Corp slant and smear, Independent Australia
Independent Australia managing editor David Donovan corrects the record regarding a highly unbalanced and unethical article published in The Australian today about Peter Wicks and IA’s coverage of the Thomson/HSU affair
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

Fuel My Fire, Peter Wicks, Wixxy leaks
It’s not an average day you are mentioned in The Australian, let alone the front page.But then again, it’s not every day that facts, presented by a part-time blogger, published on an online news source upset the strategy of a so-called union “whistleblower’ and her partner who is the second highest ranking industrial judge in the land.
wixxy.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/fuel-my-fire/

HSU case judge critical of Jackson emails, Jamelle Wells, ABC
He said it was a "serious breach" of court processes and queried if action should be taken against Ms Jackson.The judge also accused one of Ms Jackson's lawyers, Brett Shields, of wasting the court's time by being under prepared.
www.abc.net.au/.../4053366

RBA cuts cash rate to 3.50%, Greg Jericho, Grog’s Gamut
Of the three decades that ended up performing poorly, only the 1970s was doing as well as is the 2010s currently. In fact 30 months in the 2010s are just below where the 1990s and 1970s were at the same point. But whether it will go like the 1990s or 1970s this graph gives no hint. Right now, I’d bet the 1970s
grogsgamut.blogspot.com.au/.../...rate-to-350.html

Miss us this day our daily newspaper? Where will the cuts come first, Ethical Martini
Sydney and Melbourne have populations over 4 million, perhaps enough to sustain two newspapers for some time. However, if the US situation is a rough guide, then we could imagine that newspapers in some of the one-paper cities in Australia might get in trouble.
ethicalmartini.wordpress.com/.../

Ross Gittins says – How mining companies campaigned for a ‘government’s defeat’ and brought down a Prime Minister, Turn Left 2013
Tax reforms lost in saga of expediency, is a piece in Fairfax, by economics editor Ross . Gittins, that talks puts the Rudd-coup in economic terms, in order words, how the big miners
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

The re-invented, caring, merciful Mr Abbott, Miglo Café Whispers
Well all I can say is thank God the media in this country has finally revealed to us the re-invented, caring, merciful Mr Abbott that I never knew existed. All this time I thought he just wanted to see the back of Craig Thomson so he could get his hands on the keys to The Lodge.
cafewhispers.wordpress.com/.../

Who’s afraid of the press council? Paul Barry, The Power Index
It just shows the ongoing influence of News Ltd on our politicians," he says.   So does he think the Press Council ruling—which won't make front page tomorrow under the banner headline "An apology to Clover Moore"—will achieve anything?
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../201206051427

Rudd to Replace Gillard, Turnbull Won’t Replace Abbott; And Illusions, Peter, Aussie Views News
Journalists stop writing what they think readers expect to read . Journalists stop leading readers with vague new “facts”. Like Coorey’s assertion “Rudd. who has begun to lift his public profile in recent days”. Really? Hands up anyone who has seen that.Labor MPs support what they have
www.aussieviewsnews.com/.../

How to Win an Election, Brett Evans, Inside Story
Abbott has also over-promised. He’ll bring in paid maternity leave and a budget surplus; he’ll turn back the boats; he’ll deal with climate change as well, but none of us will have to change our behaviour. He has leapt on Labor’s scandals with gusto. He has built his support among the mine-owning billionaires, and the refugee
http://inside.org.au/how-to-win-an-election/

Reserve Bank Cuts Cash Rate By 0.25%, Australian Politics. Com
Statement by Glenn Stevens, Governor: Monetary Policy Decision
australianpolitics.com/.../...quarter-percent.html

Moving On, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison
Pure Poison to close… but exciting new project to follow, A deadline has now arrived. Crikey have decided that Pure Poison isn’t part of their plans for the future and have decided to wrap it up at the end of the financial year.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

When’s a good time to introduce a great big new tax?, Bernard Keane’ Crikey
But then the Coalition would argue this isn’t a major economic reform, it’s just a great big new tax. So when is the right time to introduce a great big new tax? The Coalition would know, because that’s what it did in 2000 with the GST, which inCPI terms was more
www.crikey.com.au/.../

State parliaments far less transparent than Canberra , Peter Timmins, Open and Shut
With a fair degree of outrage running about any plan to re-establish an exemption for the parliamentary departments from the Commonwealth Freedom of Information Act (see letters in the SMH today, copied below),
foi-privacy.blogspot.com.au/.../...ransparent.html

The Great Unhinging – Revisited, Possum Comitatus, the Kings Tribune
Australia’s favourite number-crunching marsupial predicted the Great Unhinging eighteen months ago. And they will be ably assisted and their supporters commercially exploited, by the leadership and opinion section of The Australian — not to mention the curmudgeonly Lesser Scribes infesting the sewer end of the News Ltd tabloids and that growing group of feeble minded cowards at the ABC whom appear to have lost any capacity for intellectual autonomy when it comes to independently assessing the dynamics of Australian politics.
www.kingstribune.com/.../1516-the-great-unhinging-revisited

THE Queen last night lit the final Diamond Jubilee beacon in a chain of 4,180 honouring her 60-year reign, The Sun, UK
And in Australia, Prime Minister Julia Gillard lit a beacon at Parliament House in Canberra. Of the total number of beacons, 76 were overseas — from Malta to the Falkland Islands.
www.thesun.co.uk/.../...Queen-spans-the-globe.html

Statement from the Hon Gary Hardgrave ,
I can confirm I have received a letter which states the LNP State Executive have chosen to expel me from the Party.“This comes as a result of them taking exception to a number of comments I made in connection with my work within the media as a Radio Presenter for 4BC.
www.4bc.com.au/.../20120605-1ztnu.html

More NBN fixed wireless being rolled out in northern NSW, the Hunter and Darling Downs, Stephen Conroy
Around 17,000 homes and businesses in total will receive a fixed wireless service, with the rollout due to be fully completed in 2015. For those living outside these areas, fast broadband will be available via satellite.This list includes areas which were part of the first release fixed wireless sites in Armidale and Tamworth
www.minister.dbcde.gov.au/.../085

The NBN TV reception fix , Paul Budde, Technology Spectator
So those people who have poor TV signals could be among the first to buy smart TVs – and as long as they have a reasonable broadband quality they could profit from better video-based entertainment delivered to their smartTVs and further penetration of the NBN will only make the viewer experience better as it will deliver the quality needed for HDTV and other high-quality-based TV services.
technologyspectator.com.au/.../nbn-tv-reception-fix

Australian Government taxation and spending
The charts below summarise Australian Government revenues and expenses for 2011‑12 on an accrual basis. Total revenue for 2011‑12 is expected to be $350.0 billion, a decrease of 1.5 per cent on estimated revenue since the Mid‑Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook 2010‑11
www.budget.gov.au/.../overview_46.htm

TODAY’S FRONT PAGES
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 6 June 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Lyn

June 6. 2012 07:35 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 08:56 AM

Psyclaw

Yesterday Chris Richards from Access economics described our economic numbers as 'beautiful" (for those who can't place him, he is  a squarish faced gent with a good covering of white hair ...... he's often interviewed on TV and is consistently moderate and calm).

But this morning Bill Evans from Westpac said to Ms Kelly that our economic numbers aren't as good as we make out. His evidence ....... growth has only been at trend and not above trend for the last couple of years.

In a world that has been at least globally stagnant and in most nations in recession for 4 years and with a current global atmosphere of great uncertainty, growth at trend is not enough for tis fiend to admit we're at least moving forward at 2% and that in all circumstances this is not something to whinge about.

Talking about uncertainty, it was quite worrying to see the two Greek frontrunners for the 17 June election on TV last night.

One is a rabid leftie whose platform is to leave the EEC and write off (refuse to pay) their international debts. The other is a facist whose platform is to send all foreigners packing ..... they're the cause of Greece's woes, and especially he says, the Turks.

Both refused interviews and like Abbott this is their practice.

For those not fully up on history, I am reminded here of Hitler's initial rise in the early 1930's centred on Nuremberg, a city with massive post depression unemployment. There he quickly and completely won the battered population over by promising that he was their messiah and had all the answers. No-one ever thought to analyse just what the answers were and like these Greek turkeys (oops! TT! sorry, but that's the best word!) and Abbott, Hitler was never good at spelling out the answers.

The claim that he had the answers was enough for the gullibles who as a result of real hardship (as opposed to our whinging mobs of gullibles who just fantasise that we're in real hardship because Abbott and his mob and Hadley, Jones, Bolt etc say so) were unsurprisingly receptive.

Psyclaw

June 6. 2012 08:58 AM

Psyclaw

Para 3, Line 3, Word 4 = "this"

Psyclaw

June 6. 2012 09:37 AM

TalkTurkey

The Paul Barry article *Lyn* linked us to

www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../201206051427

goes to the core (as in boil on your bum) of our problem, and should stir the blood of this fighting site. We MUST control the irresponsible hateful agenda-driven ignorant Media! Freedom of speech my arse, freedom for the Cat is death to the Bilby, come on Government, Finkelstein 'em, there are so many glaring examples of abuses here as in the UK by the Murdoch-dominated media right now, there will never be a better time, and if it doesn't get done now to rein the bastards in, IT NEVER WILL.

It won't happen without a tooth-and nail* fight but it must be done for the sake of our very liberty.


"But screw your courage to the sticking-place"

Meaning

Be steadfast and of good courage.
Origin

From Shakespeare's Macbeth, 1605:


LADY MACBETH
We fail!
But screw your courage to the sticking-place,
And we'll not fail.


It is thought that Shakespeare was making the allusion to the screwing-up of the peg of a musical instrument until it becomes tightly fixed. If that is so then the phrase's meaning is 'keep screwing up your courage until it reaches the sticking place' not, as is usually thought 'affix your courage to the sticking place'.

[Isn't that interesting! TT]

See other phrases and sayings from Shakespeare.

Thanks to Phrase-Finder.

*Nicola Roxon started saying that 3-word expression during the moments I was already typing it!



TalkTurkey

June 6. 2012 09:37 AM

Glorfindel

Hey Ad,

Where is the plan B? There's probably a few reasons that we are not seeing one.

I've heard it suggested that the Liberals are not a very good party in opposition. They lack the membership and machinery that the Labor party has and in opposition they often struggle with detailed policy, costings etc. When in government they are happy to use the machinery of government to do the heavy lifting for them, but in opposition they are less effective.

With that in mind it might be more difficult for them to develop an effective plan B.

Secondly you only ever use your plan B when plan A isn't working, and at the moment I'd imagine that Abbott is pretty happy at where plan A puts him.

I know you don't like those naughty opinion polls, and much like a passionate smoker will insist that the link to caner is vastly overblown, you do you best to discredit them. (oddly enough you don't seem to have that problem in years gone by). But they are a snapshot of the voting intention of the public. And unless that intention dramatically changes then Abbott's plan A will put him into the Lodge. With that being the case why should we expect to see a plan B now?

If the party finally comes to it's feeble senses and restores Rudd (assuming he'll accept) then I don't think Abbott will last 3 months and in that 3 months we might see plan B, C, D and F all furiously and frantically deployed.   But at the moment he's comfortably ahead of Gillard. Not that there is a great challenge there with her “aim at foot, shoot, reload” philosophy.

Glorfindel

June 6. 2012 09:58 AM

TalkTurkey


I posted this last year, but in trying to avoid Queenie on TV I thought she deserved another serve.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Saturday, April 30, 2011

Royalty eh.

There's some great articles this morning [i.e.that date above TT] on Lyn's Links about Royalty, and now I'll tell you my Royal Story:

The Cleverest Thing I Ever Said

When I was in Grade Four, Australia was abuzz with the news:
The Queen is coming to Adelaide!
Every day we had to go out onto our all-bitumen schoolyard to practise a sort of square-dance jig thing - with the GIRLS, even! - to the tune of The Cuckoo Waltz. It is branded into my memory. Da DA Dah! Da DA dah! Da DA-da da-dudda Dahhh!

We did it day in day out for MONTHS, true.

"Now when you do this in front of the Queen (et cetera, blah blah). . . " Mr Frick kept telling us, for we knew that schools from all over Adelaide would be there with us in one huge demonstration of our adoration and our splendid physiques.

It never happened. It all got cancelled for us plebs. Zip. We got given a little New Testament. O joy.

Oh no, I just remembered, that was when She was coronated. It was all a long time ago.

                          * * *

When I was in Grade SEVEN, Her Majesty was due to come again!

I was at a school where more than half the kids were the spawn of Ten Pound Poms, living in a nissen-hut migrant hostel just down the road, (and many of these people had really improved the society of Merrie England by the leaving of it.) They were really rough and tough, poor and mean, but they were oh-so-loyal to the country which had offered them nothing and been only too pleased to lose them, and they loved the Queen like she was their own Nanny.

Anyway the day came around, it was high summer and hot. All the kids from Reception up were loaded into buses - this is a school of about eight hundred kids, two-and-a-half Grade Sevens, classes each of FIFTY kids, (as I myself had occasion to teach later!) and the youngest of course being five-year-olds. It took a long time to load the buses, then the ride to Wayville Showgrounds was about eight slow miles through the middle of the hot city, and at last we pulled up at the jumping-off place, outside the oval where She was due to give us the honour of her presence. It was alongside the Animal Barns where the prize pigs and cows and other critters got judged, and it was on dry dusty dirt, with a North-facing iron wall behind us, in the sun, hundreds of kids standing and waiting.

Of all the schools we were the first there, so they put us on the very far end so other later schools could be marshalled conveniently in front of us.

We waited.

Schools kept arriving and getting slotted in front of us,
we all waited.

More and more schools, thousands and thousands of kids.

It was very hot, dust puffed up if you shuffled your feet, and all the kids were getting thirsty.

Some of the little kids started to cry. We big kids, I must say, did very well trying to comfort them, but there wasn't much we could do.

Our teachers, Mr Hall and Mrs Wallwork, tried to fetch us drinks but there were only a couple of glasses that could be found and the taps were fifty yards away and utterly crowded with uncontrolled other schools' kids who really did need a drink too but my school needed it most because we'd been there longest. No good.

Several kids including in my own class fainted. There was no help for them except to get us bigger kids to carry them into the bit of hot shade some distance away.

One little tiny boy came up to Mrs Wallwork, the other Gr7 teacher, and said in a tiny little shy voice, pointing gravely to another tiny kid who was in tears, "Please Miss Wallwork,
'e done a wee!" (it was EXACTLY those words, I will never forget!) and there was this poor little boy who would have to have wet pants for hours standing there crying his eyes out, my heart went out to him. Our poor teachers were beside themselves with trying to do something for the most distressed kids, but we were hemmed in and helpless.

We were there for probably an hour and a half, standing in close concentration.

At last the crowd started to move at the far-distant end of the assembled school groups - the last were first, and the first were last, just like in the Bible, and it took quite a while even for our school to start shuffling off to the oval entry gate, and at a snail-pace even then. We had the dust of tens of thousands of kids before us, it was hot, we were thirsty, kids in tears, shuffle shuffle shuffle, dust clouds, shuffle shuffle . . .

. . . It was then I thought of The Cleverest Thing I Ever Said:

I pointed my head downwards so I was fairly hidden, and yelled,

MOOOOOOO!!!

INSTANTLY other kids took it up!

Maa-aa! MOOOOOO! BAA-AA-AA!
THOUSANDS of kids! It went viral within seconds!

Kids started scuffing their feet surreptitiously deliberately, dust rose like in a big cattle drive, just about everyone was doing it.

A few kids started barking like dogs, there was neighing of horses and grunting lke pigs, chooks cackling, and many many sheep and cattle!

The teachers were in a panic, running around trying to shut us all up. But it was like punching holes in water, as quick as we were silenced in one part other kids started up again elsewhere, we were suddenly all laughing and loving it, the discomfort notwithstanding, and the insurrection lasted ten or so minutes, nearly all the way to the main gate. Every kid knew just what we were saying, and every kid was a revolutionary! I know Mr Hall was secretly delighted too, he earnt a lot of kudos with me that day.

So I knew now that the other kids like me were Republicans after all, and that forever they would feel as I have forever myself ever since then, that the Royals were privileged parasites and horrible hypocrites and I want an end to them and I want their symbol erased from the flag of my country.

When we finally got into the showgrounds we were the last and we were also the last this time, at the back in the bleachers and still standing in the sun. All the shaded stands were empty, but then got occupied by kids in private school uniforms, who were sneaked in late by a different gate, with the bluest nearest the front, but I didn't really mind - MUCH! - knowing as I did that She was going to get a stony reception from all my staunch kid compatriots when She came at last to grace us with her radiance.

In She came at last, in her black Roller, open top, ZOOM! around the oval at about 30 MPH, not even looking our way as they sped past, and my staunch troops, what did they do, they bloody-well CHEERED Her like you never heard kids cheer before in allyour life!

I knew then that the Republic was never going to be easy . . . I really did . . . from age 12.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



I also found this so I'm posting it too.


Saturday, February 12, 2011

Nodding-Head Abbortt

Tune: How much is that Doggie in the window?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AkLE4X-bbU

How weird is that Tony on my TV? (Crap! Crap)
The one with the dumb nodding head?
How weird is that Tony on my TV? (Crap! Crap!)
I do think that Tony's brain-dead!

When he took a trip to play some war-games
And fire a machine-gun at whim
He noticed that excrement eventuates
And it's true it has happened to him!

How weird is that Tony on my TV? (Crap! Crap!)
The one with the dumb nodding head?
How weird is that Tony on my TV? (Crap! Crap!)
I do think that Tony's brain-dead!

In Afghanistan there was a camera (OOH! ME!)
And a microphone heard what he said
And now Riley's showin' him the footage (OOH! ME!)
He stands there just noddin' his head!

I'd rather have a kitty or a bunny
Or one of those parrots that squawk:
At least they are pretty and they're funny,
And a parrot can learn how to talk!

How weird is that Tony on my TV? (Crap! Crap)
The one with the dumb nodding head?
How weird is that Tony on my TV? (Crap! Crap!)
I do think that Tony's brain-dead!

TalkTurkey

June 6. 2012 10:06 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad and Everybody

Twitterverse this morning for you:-

TAWNBPM‏@TAWNBPM
Be afraid: "THE Fairfax board should have the right to change the editorial direction of the company if it would... http://fb.me/1veddHILO

Steve Gibbons‏@SteveGibbonsMP
Gibbons Media: Another interest rate cut under Labor.http://bit.ly/MaRact

vexnews‏@vexnews
HSU boss Kathy Jackson faces jail/fines for contempt of court after trying to secretly contact Fed Court judge #auspol http://bit.ly/L1fxHG

Askgerbil Now‏@Askgerbil
@adamlmorton Note Sophie Mirabella's carbon tax deception used here: www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/.../ And excluded here: theland.farmonline.com.au/.../2578308.aspx #auspol

John Pratt‏@Jackthelad1947
Rinehart aide urges editorial influence. So much for a free unbiased press. http://www.theage.com.au/national/-1zudb.html

Tads‏@Tadlette
RBA says Tony Abbott is harming the economy and making Australians unreasonably afraid of the Carbon Tax http://bit.ly/Lv3ZLZ #auspol

National Times‏@NationalTimesAU
Rate cut linked to carbon backlash www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120605-1zucw.html

Robert Corr‏@robcorr
"Baillieu gov…defying an order by the industrial umpire to hand over key documents detailing public sector job losses" http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/-1zuap.html

Peter Martin‏@1petermartin
Carbon tax angst is worrying the Reserve Bank. It's one of the reasons it went again: http://bit.ly/KCP9a6 #rba #ausecon #auspol

ABC Radio‏@amworldtodaypm
Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey says effective interest rates are higher under Labor - listen on AM on ABC Local Radio at 8 http://bit.ly/aKzaGo

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
More speculation about Peter Costello's intentions, this time suggesting he's interested in a rural QLD seat: http://latika.me/JUfe3C

Penny Allman-Payne‏@PJAllmanPayne
Julia Gillard takes aim at Queensland over Alpha coal project | The Courier-Mail http://bit.ly/L1vQnZ | Comments show Qldrs support reef

Crag MaZ‏@razhorse
@independentaus the @smh made reference to Phillip's having "opined in support of Ms Jackson" here (bottom) - www.smh.com.au/.../judge-criticises-jackson-for-contacting-his-chambers

Jeff Sparrow‏@Jeff_Sparrow
Shorter Team Rinehart: if you want free speech, own a newspaper www.theage.com.au/.../...uence-20120605-1zudb.html

Lyn

June 6. 2012 11:16 AM

Bilko

AA
Once again you have hit the nail on the head you must be a carpenter like old JC.

Plan B policies were being developed by Mesma I believe with help from good old Robb the man who started stabbing Turnbull way back.

We all know that Mesma is the world's greatest plagiarizer, is that a new word??, so where can she obtain her input from, why none other than that current incompetent labor government which is driving this country into rooon, and why because they left such a legal mess that we cannot untangle it, so we will continue to run with it with just "a lick of paint here and there" in typically O’rrilly men aka Fawlty Towers.

Think back Menzies adopted some labor policies why because half the people voted for them. We adopt them all the sheer brilliance of it amazes me.

Let Labor do all the work and develop the policies, which we will implement ALL after the sleep walking dumb downed electorate vote us in because we have the best Goebbel's style propaganda machine in the world ' ie the best that Murdoch money can buy'.

So fellow Noallition parliamentary members keep up the slanging off, the lies etc victory is assured, onward to 2013.

ps hope no one is suppositious 13 October is a Saturday a possible election date 131013 so avoid talk of that month whilst I check out the alignment of the stars

Bilko

June 6. 2012 11:32 AM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
I’ve enjoyed looking through your links and Twitterverse this morning.  I was particularly take by a piece by Possum Comitatus The Great Unhinging – Revisited.  I have great regard for Possum, whose grasp of statistics and political statistics particularly, is unparalleled. He gave me my first chance to become a blogger when he accepted on his Possum Box, almost four years ago, my first piece, which was on groupthink in the media.

His piece on The King’s Tribune is well worth a thorough read by anyone who wants to better understand the current political turmoil.

www.kingstribune.com/.../1516-the-great-unhinging-revisited

He begins with the prophecy he made after Julia Gillard negotiated minority government with the Independents.  When you read it, you will see how prophetic it was.

He then goes on to tease out the several threads that have emerged as significant factors that have shaped perceptions in the electorate since then.  The second one resonated with me particularly.  I have many times written about the aversion among voters to complexity, addicted as they have become to simple, in fact simplistic slogans or sound bites.  He explains this with these words: “The second thread that started to emerge out of the qualitative polling in 2006 was a growing aversity to complexity . The more complex that an issue was in practice, the less time people wanted to spend trying to understand it. From the big political issues of the time like climate change and industrial relations (i.e. Workchoices), through to broader social and economic issues like housing affordability and cost of living changes — not only were complex explanations increasingly rejected in favour of simple ones, but the attention span for listening to complex arguments significantly contracted. The willingness of the public to accommodate complexity in their views of the wider world started to significantly reduce.”

How true. This is a major problem for governments who address complex issues and attempt to resolve them with complex legislation. Most of the electorate simply does not want to listen, preferring facile slogans, simplistic solutions, and superficial answers.  And as Tony Abbott is only too ready to provide them with all of these, over and again, they lap them up.  It beats thinking.  This is the problem the Government needs to address by reducing, as much as is possible, the inherent complexity of some issues into assimilable tasty portions that people can and will swallow and benefit from.  Educators do this every day as they reduce complex matters into digestible pieces that students can consume.  The Government needs a bevy of educators to fashion its messages, as we have said here many times.

Possum, once again has put his finger squarely on the seemingly intractable problem of voter perception.  It’s a great read.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 11:44 AM

Patriciawa

I loved it first time, but didn't say then, I thought it unfair to canines.  You really do like doggies, don't you TT?

Alan Moir's doggie cartoon yesterday is worth revisiting for Republicans. It's No. 2 at
www.theage.com.au/.../alan-moir-20090907-fdxk.html

Patriciawa

June 6. 2012 11:56 AM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
The pieces in your Twitterverse about the RBA decision particularly caught my attention.

After hearing Joe Hockey insist this morning on ABC radio that the Bank’s decision had nothing at all to do with the Government's fiscal performance, (in fact that was more likely a negative factor for all the reasons Joe regularly recites), I was interested to read Peter Martin’s piece in the National Times that began:

”The Reserve Bank is worried that Australians are unreasonably pessimistic about the economy, and it believes the campaign against the carbon tax is to blame.

“In a bid to stimulate the economy, the Reserve has cut its cash rate by 0.25 of a percentage point. The cut was in part a response to a slowdown in China and turmoil on financial markets spooked by the European economic crisis.

“But also central to the decision was a concern that no matter how good the domestic economic news, Australians are scarcely noticing in an atmosphere muddied by campaigning against the carbon tax.”
  

So here we have Peter Martin saying what we have been saying here for ages, namely that the persistent negativity of Tony Abbott and the Coalition about the effects of the carbon tax, the continual fear, uncertainty and doubt they disseminate, their regular talking down of the economy, is having its effect, manifest by apprehension among voters, pessimism about their situation, curtailment of their spending, and depression of the retail economy.
So the boot is on the other foot – it is the Coalition’s wrecking ball and the damage to consumer confidence it is causing that has weighed heavily on the RBA in making its decision.

At last an MSM journalist has called the situation for what it is.  Can we have more Peter Martins?

www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120605-1zucw.html

You will find more on this on his website:
www.petermartin.com.au/.../...orrying-reserve.html

The relevant paragraph in the RBA minutes reads: (my emphasis)
”In Australia, available indicators suggest modest growth continued in the first part of 2012, with significant variation across sectors. Overall labour market conditions firmed a little, notwithstanding job shedding in some industries, and the rate of unemployment remains low. Nonetheless, both households and businesses continue to exhibit a degree of precautionary behaviour, which may continue in the near term.”

www.rba.gov.au/media-releases/2012/mr-12-13.html

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 12:00 PM

Min

Ad astra and a growing aversity to complexity .  A problem of a rapidly changing society.  It's difficult to imagine how much data one is challenged to compute today compared with only a few years ago.  Therefore, inundated with so much data a majority seek simple solutions and hence Abbott's success with plain, simple messages such as the words tax - disfunctional.  No explanation required, just say the words so as to imprint the images.

Min

June 6. 2012 12:07 PM

Ad astra

Bilko
Thank you for your kind remarks.  Your appraisal of the scene in the Coalition ‘policy think tank’ is eminently plausible.  Certainly for Julie Bishop, who has never yet revealed a new policy, the easy option would appeal.  There is talk of the Coalition having fifty policies under consideration.  If they do ever emerge, I wonder will they be as you describe?

Patriciawa
I did enjoy the Moir cartoon of the bats (polls) once again screeching overhead and drowning out the symphony of the Budget.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 12:11 PM

Ad astra

Min
Exactly.  In the face of complexity, too many people prefer simplicity, even if it's misleading and deceptive.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 12:44 PM

sally

Neck sore from head nodding...
It's just not going to happen.
Btw, i am not sure that following the dictates of your own nature comprises a 'plan'.
Perhaps the question is therefore : Has Abbott got a Plan A ?
Thanks for a terrific article Smile

sally

June 6. 2012 12:53 PM

Ad astra

sally
If you haven't been here before, welcome to The Political Sword family.  Do come again.

Thank you for your kind remarks.  Perhaps you are right - he may not have a Plan A at all; maybe what he's doing just comes naturally!

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 12:55 PM

Dan

Why don't we see more of this type of opinion in the mainstream press!!!!?...Oh yeah, their bias.
You are spot on!

Dan

June 6. 2012 01:21 PM

Dalesman

All wrapped up very neatly in a nutshell! Fantastic analysis of a very complex man with very simple goals. Thank you, I will be sharing this article.

Dalesman

June 6. 2012 01:29 PM

42 long

  Glorfindel , IF Abbot wouldn't last 3 months if Krudd was reinvented, why would the LNP want to have him there.? Your suggestion/situation fails the reality test.
   Julie Bishop seems to get on very well with him, but any advice from the LNP as to how the labour party could improve their situation would have to be regarded as totally "SUSS" and just there to stir up  damaging and non-existant speculation.
   Julia Gillard's position with labour is far more certain than Tony's is with the LNP. Do you think THEY don't analyse things day by day.
   TIME is NOT on their side. The whole PLOY or plan or thrust or whatever you want to call it was to get rid of her quickly, by ANY means, some of it pretty FOUL. "mud thrown is ground lost". (The best thing I ever saw on a Church billboard).  

42 long

June 6. 2012 01:42 PM

DMW

Min @ 12:00 PM
Yep simple solutions via simple slogans.

And here is the disconnect. People in their heart of hearts know that for example 'Stop the Boats' is BS and TA has a snowballs chance in Hades of succeeding but they take it as a promise.

I am still trying to work out why. I suspect it is a mixture of 'this guy hears our worries' and it offers the hope that he will do something to ease their fears.

What is probably need is another Keating like circuit breaker 'Banana Republic' comment. That intervention by PJK set a change of direction in the conversation that allowed space for the needed reforms to be worked through and implemented.

DMW

June 6. 2012 02:02 PM

Psyclaw

In reference to my post above at 8.56am, the growth figures released at about lunch time shows how off the mark Westpac's Bill Evans is.

He was about to get on a plane to UK after the Ms Kelly interview so maybe he is yet to find out that he is a very poor clairvoyant.

An annual growth rate of 4.3% is unbelievably huge in the present climate. What spin can hockey and Abbott go to now to replace "it's just not the right time to price carbon".

The world's greatest treasurer and the JG government have delivered yet again. How this must really upset the gastric systems of Hockey and Abbott, and send them running ...... Great fun for us!

The figures show that the main contributors to the good numbers are consumer spending (>1%) and of course mining.

As one commentator said regarding Myers' and DJs' (and Gerry Harvey's too) whinging, people are spending, but just not at those shops.  Presumably they'll get the message?????

Psyclaw

June 6. 2012 02:46 PM

NormanK

DMW @ 1.42 PM

My latest thought on voter disconnect runs along the lines of the belief being that economic indicators etc. would be the same under the Coalition i.e. it just happens automatically. The false perception may be that the next election is about changing who has hold of the reins and not where they would direct the horse. On top of that of course, is the belief that the Coalition will 'fix' all of the ills that plague us as individuals. But the basic idea that the mining boom will just roll on regardless of who is in power seems to be the dominant impression that I am picking up anecdotally. Part of the election campaign for Labor, when it occurs, will be to dismiss this myth and to point out that "oils ain't oils".

NormanK

June 6. 2012 02:47 PM

Ad astra

Dan, Dalesman
Welcome to both of you to The Political Sword family.  Do come again.

Thank you for your kind comments.  I believe the answer to the question about why we don’t see such articles in the MSM is that most of it has no intention of calling Abbott out.  The Murdoch media wants Julia Gillard and her Government out, and a Coalition Government in, and many writing for Fairfax and the ABC follow like sheep.  They are likely not enamoured of Tony Abbott, but while he continues to keep the Coalition’s TPP sound, they will not dare to criticize him.  But should the TPP fall away, they will cut his political throat in an instance, even as they continue to support the Coalition and oppose Labor.  Labor is fighting most of the media as well as the Opposition.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 02:49 PM

NormanK

Ad astra

Before I search out the responses from Abbott and Hockey to today's surprisingly fantastic growth figures may I say that this will be a minor test of the theory that Abbott only knows one way to act. If he has kept up the negative line in the face of such good news then I may have to re-evaluate my thinking about him being a one-trick pony.

NormanK

June 6. 2012 03:00 PM

42 long

  Joe's interview on the growth figures. Admits the're impressive. "Just imagine how good they would have been IF there was a good government". We know you hate being in opposition, Joe, but this is the government that the PEOPLE voted in. Your chosen leader had no hope of winning over the independent's because THEY knew that Tony's aim to not go through the full term, so they could not trust him to stick to a deal.
IF the growth figures were much better than they are we would have a higher dollar and higher interset rates to slow growth and then a higher dollar still, as a consequence.
   At this point NO-ONE in the LNP looks capable of enunciating a cognisant policy on economics. The holy trinity seems disunited, and directionless. You can't just say "Libs are better managers of money" and leave it at that.
   Howard/Costello should have put money away for the future instead of dishing it out to get votes.
   We never hear a policy on employment figures from the LNP. They traditionally prefer higher levels of unemployment to put downward pressure on wages. That won't change.It's part of their "modus operandi"
  Employed people pay taxes Joe, and don't use benefits. It also distributes wealth more equitably. Oh sorry I'm starting a "class war".. At present the trend is to have a bigger divide between the top and the bottom of the socio economic scale.
  At what stage would the CURRENT conservative group consider this worth addressing?
   I'm not suggesting a transfer of money, just a system that gives a similar OPPORTUNITY for ALL kids in Australia to aspire to make it
   I grew up in Newcastle ( The Coaly City) when the Steel  and Coal management used to have Bursaries and Scholarships for the high achieving kids to get graduate positions in the industry, and took on plenty of apprentices in the trades. Now they all want to steal them from overseas on a 457 Visa

42 long

June 6. 2012 03:04 PM

Ad astra

Glorfindel
I you wish to derive succour from every new opinion poll, even if it has no capacity to predict the outcome of a 2013 election, do go ahead.  Enjoy it while you can.

I expect you are right when you say that Abbott is happy to be where he is with Plan A.  It will be his problem though if he doesn’t bother with a Plan B and the polls reverse.  It’s his risk, not Labor’s.

I looked for past pieces on TPS where we jumped for joy when the polls were running in Labor’s favour, but couldn’t find any.  Perhaps you could help me out with a link.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 03:31 PM

Ad astra

NormanK
All I’ve been able to find so far, over and above what 42 long reported, was in The Australian: www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226386128237

The Coalition welcomed the “extraordinary figures” but said they appeared at odds with consecutive interest rate cuts and the forecast blowout in this year's budget deficit.

and further on in the article:

Opposition treasury spokesman Joe Hockey said the “extraordinary figure” surprised just about everyone.

“This does demonstrate the resilience of the Australian people in the face of a flawed government,” Mr Hockey said.

“Imagine how well our country could do if we had a good government?”

"Mr Hockey said he hoped the trend continued but he feared the carbon tax, the mining tax and “the government's own incompetence” would make the elevated growth rate difficult to sustain.

He said the “scariest thing in Australia is Wayne Swan”.

“Wayne Swan doesn't exude confidence. He is not someone who, if you were in the trenches and he blew the whistle, that you'd readily jump over the top for.”


Is that the answer to you query about the Coalition’s ability to change its message, its Plan A?

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 03:36 PM

DMW

NormanK @ 2:46 PM
I am yet to get a copy of Laura Tingle's Quarterly Essay however in her chat with Adams Monday night she made a big point about the loss of control that governments have suffered since floating of dollar, Reserve Bank setting interest rates etc.

In some ways it is right that it doesn't matter who is in government, the economy will do what the economy does.

Politicians need to come clean on a lot of things regarding the economy and the way government actions affect it.

One thing that must change and will be the most difficult to do is that politicians have to get over playing Santa Claus dishing goodies (bribes) of bonus this, bonus that.

It will matter who has hold of the reins but no matter which of choices gets up it is unlikely that either Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum will go into the campaign telling us the truth that there are some very bitter pills for us to swallow if we don't change the 'what is in for me and entitlement mentalities' that seem very prevalent at present.

If you haven't already read Katharine Murphy's short take on Tingle's QE:
Bleak house struggles with great expectations
www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120604-1zron.html

DMW

June 6. 2012 03:48 PM

NeoTheFatCat

I can confidently predict, possibly up to 14 months before the next election, that if Abbott is elected PM at the next election, he will announce within 4 weeks of being elected that the 'black hole' is bigger than anything he expected and he therefore (a) cannot keep his election promises and (b) must make further cuts.

Of course, the fact that his economics team can't add one and one without some accountant getting fined by their professional body will be completely ignored - the media will just nod their heads and obediently prime us for tough times ahead.

NeoTheFatCat

June 6. 2012 03:54 PM

NormanK

DMW

In some ways it is right that it doesn't matter who is in government, the economy will do what the economy does.

Oh No! You've been infected!

I used the economy as an example but it seems to extend to things like education and health and infrastructure - these things are funded just as a matter of course and it doesn't matter who is in the top job.

I rail at the contention that one mob is much like the other mob. If you want a prime example look at pensions. The Coalition had 11 years of good income and did SFA. Once they were in opposition they started pressuring for a $25 a week increase. Labor coughed up $30 week at the start of the GFC.
No difference between them?
PAH!

NormanK

June 6. 2012 03:56 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad

I have been a bit slow with the Twitterati. I really have been busy trying to keep up, Joe Hockey's Presser caused a thunder storm:-

The funiest piece of double dutch by Hockey

A "dysfunctional government which is reflected in a functional economy

Twitterati:-

Wayne Swan‏@SwannyDPM
Today's exceptional numbers confirm that we have the strongest developed economy in the world, bar none. Something we can all be proud of.

TheFinnigans
Dont forget Tony Abbott said the #CarbonTax is the wrecking ball that will destroy our economy and Whyalla will be wiped off the Map

Stephen Koukoulas‏@TheKouk
In the last 6 years of the Coalition Govt, there was not one rate cut. Last cut under a Coalition Govt was 5 December 2001

John Pratt‏@Jackthelad1947
“@BBCWorld: Australia's economy picks up pace http://bbc.in/L1Lhwg” Labor is showing the world. Well done Julia Gillard & your team.

The Australian‏@australian
Growth an answer to doomsayers: Swan: NEW figures showing "stunning" economic growth should mark a turning point... http://bit.ly/LyeZbB

Stephen Koukoulas‏@TheKouk
Household spending +1.6% q/q WOwow

Australian Labor‏@AustralianLabor
Interesting that @JoeHockey & @TonyAbbottMHR yesterday talked about "Australia's underperforming economy". Growth is exceeding expectations.

vexnews‏@vexnews
Economy thumbs nose at "market economists" - GDP rose 1.3% in March quarter http://bit.ly/L86Qvt ABS http://bit.ly/L86JAh #auspol #ausecon

ManO'Steel(town)‏@berkeleyboy
Australia's boom economy - 4.3% growth = world's strongest performing developed economy! www.smh.com.au/.../...ate-cuts-20120606-1zvcf.html Abbott warns of doom #auspol

A blockbuster set of numbers ,
By industry sector, the main contributors to growth were, you guessed it, mining, up 2.3 per cent in the quarter. But the boom is also spilling over into professional, scientific and technical services, up 2.8 per cent and financial and insurance services, up 1.7 per cent
: www.smh.com.au/.../...-numbers-20120606-1zvfw.html

Economy produces stunning set of numbers, Channel Nine
finance.ninemsn.com.au/.../economy-produces-stunning-set-of-numbers

Chris Johnson‏@seearjay
Shares jump on strong GDP result: www.theage.com.au/.../...esult-20120606-1zv27.html Dollar also gained rising above 98 US cents on the positive economic data.

Katharine Murphy‏@murpharoo
Tis. Think u need a login to read? “@Drag0nista: Excellent piece - Paul Kelly on Rudd and the ALP's poisoned chalice  www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg74x-1226385327295

AshGhebranious‏@AshGhebranious
The best part of the growth figures today is it makes all that ink spent on headlines of doom on Monday in papers so laughable #auspol

david koch‏@kochie_online
Sensational economic growth figures of 1.3% for March quarter and 4.3% annual growth. Way more than expected. Yesterday was strong car sales

John Pratt‏@Jackthelad1947
“@SBSNews: #GDP rose by 1.3 percent in the first quarter of 2012, greater than expectations http://bit.ly/Ng97YD” Labor you deserve respect

Rights at Work‏@thisworkinglife
Another set of wages data dis-prove hysterical predictions of ‘wages breakout’. ACTU Wages Report June 2012 http://bit.ly/MaZ1Xy #ausunions

Equitist‏@OzEquitist
Embarrassing speech deleted? MT @LiberalAus Tony Abbott...Address to the Minerals Council of Aust... http://bit.ly/KZ1nVX #AUSpol #MyLiberal



JOE HOCKEY PRESSER  ON THE   "stunning" economic growth

Greg Jericho‏@GrogsGamut
Good luck journos trying to make sense of that press conference. You have my sympathies...

Simon Cullen‏@Simon_Cullen
Joe Hockey: "The scariest thing in Australia is Wayne Swan"

Eschertology‏@Eschertology
Tony Abbott wanted Australians to speak other languages, so today Hockey gave a speech in pure gibberish

Jason Wilson‏@jason_a_w
Joe is blowing my mind. A dysfunctional government which is reflected in a functional economy.

Cameron Burge‏@CameronBurge
I don't think the transcript from Mr Hockey's press conference will make the Liberal Party web page.

George Bludger‏@GeorgeBludger
Summed up perfectly -> “@Eschertology: Hockey sinking in the quicksand of his own stupidity”

Justin Stevens‏@_JustinStevens_
And on @abc730 tonight, @leighsales will interview the man Joe Hockey says is the scariest thing in Australia: Wayne Swan

Stephanie Philbrick‏@Steph_Philbrick
"Imagine how well we could do if we had a good government" #LOLhockey

TheFinnigansThefinnigans
To say that Joe Blockey was terrible at his GDP Presser is a complement

Wayne scares Big Joe more than anything else in Australia
Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey has called Wayne Swan the ''scariest thing in Australia'', and attacked the Treasurer's lack of confidence, in his reply to the National Accounts figures.
www.smh.com.au/.../...ustralia-20120606-1zvu9.html

Joint Press Conference, Sydney, Posted on Tuesday, 5 June 2012Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott
The economic storm clouds have rarely been more dark. Here in Australia, economic conditions are soft. The stock market is down. Profits are weak. Retail sales are weak. The property market is down. Under these circumstances, it’s hardly surprising that the Reserve should have reduced the rate by 25 basis points.
www.tonyabbott.com.au/.../...onference-Sydney.aspx

Bernard Keane‏@BernardKeane
Abbott-Hockey press conference an impressive achievement in stupid. Daily Telegraph-level stupid.

Matt Cowgill‏@MattCowgill
Here's how the Australian economy has fared relative to the other English-speaking countries & the EU since 2007 http://pic.twitter.com/bE26UJmn

Mr Denmore‏@MrDenmore
Annual GDP growth (latest): Britain: 0.4%; Sweden: 0.7%; Germany: 0.7%; Japan: 1.8%; Canada: 2.1%; USA: 2.2%; Australia: 4.3%. Go figure



SmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 6. 2012 04:08 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
What a fantastic collection of Twitterati!  And what amusing reading!  Anyone who imagined that good news of this calibre would change the Coalition's tune from negative to positive will have had that illusion dented.  What a fool Joe makes of himself.  How can he keep fronting for pressers when so many are laughing at him?  But how much of his incomprehensible utterances will be faithfully reported in the media, particularly the TV and radio news, where his ineptitude would be exposed?  How many commentators will call him for the economic ignoramus, or deceitful shadow treasurer he is, whichever it is?

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 04:10 PM

Glorfindel

@ 42 long

-- IF Abbot wouldn't last 3 months if Krudd was reinvented, why would the LNP want to have him there. --

So the Liberal party should choose a leader based on the possibility of hypothetical conditions the in future coming to pass? Rather than make the decision based on what’s happening now.

Seems kinda odd to me.

@ Add

So what will change between now and 2013 ?

-- I looked for past pieces on TPS where we jumped for joy when the polls were running in Labor’s favour --

Not what I said Ad, not at all. Is a little honesty too much to ask? Have a tiny bit of respect for yourself if nobody else.

A cursory glance of TPS will show situations such as discussions on the characteristics of Turnbull as opposition leader, Gillard’s inane citizens assembly or the knifing of Rudd when you have cited various polling in support of your position. Without the slightest qualm, hesitation or disclaimer about the nature of such polling.

It seems the value of polling is useful when it suits your preconceived ideas and dubious when it doesn’t. You have the making of a fine climate change denier if you ever want to lend the Bolter a hand.

-- It will be his problem though if he doesn’t bother with a Plan B and the polls reverse. –

IF

Tell me why will those polls reverse, apart from you having a fervent desire for them to do so ?

-- no capacity to predict the outcome of a 2013 election –

For most of 2007 I amusedly listen to conservative types telling me that there was only one poll that mattered, that there was enough time for Howard to turn things around,  that nobody they knew would vote for Rudd. I treated such idiocy with disdain then and I can’t see a reason to change now.

Glorfindel

June 6. 2012 04:11 PM

Psyclaw

DMW
Laura Tingle's essay argued that the electorate has a pretty poor grip on reality as far as the control of the macro economy is concerned.

She attributes this to the fact that politicians of all persuasions refuse to fess up to the fact that they don't control everything in this global and deregulated economy.

But LT did not say that they control nothing. Nor did she say that the major parties are in fact six of one and half a dozen of the other.

The fact is that the micro economy is very much  effected by the differing strategies of the major parties. Workplace policies, borrowing to build infrastructure, spreading the resource wealth, supporting those in dire need, and opening up the green economy are all actions/directions of the JG government and are the antithesis of the opposition's stances.

To imagine that these actions which are completely within the government control do not play a role in the nation's economy is quite silly.

I will go further than LT. As I see it, ignorance about all aspects of governance pervades the community. A pensioner asked me today how come she got a few bucks more when she's supposed to pay, not receive the carbon "tax". She still believes ordinary punters prima facie pay this "tax".

Similarly, otherwise erudite friends have no idea of the ways that  the Slipper issue, Mal Brough's preselection attempts, Ashby, Wilkie, pokies, the hung parliament, the speakership, Kathy Jackson,  Abbott's conduct, opposition front benchers talking to Ashby etc etc hang together.

Their understanding of the issues is simply that Slipper and Thomson are two crooks who have happened to be caught at the same time. And that Kathy Jackson and Ashby are goodies who told the police. And that Abbott is working to make politics and unionism fairer.

Is it any wonder that if an appearance in any criminal court should ever befall me, I will be asking for a trial by judge. IMHO juries are about as useful as mammaries on a bullock. They understand and process the facts like the generic punters in the electorate ...... with great gullibility.

Psyclaw

June 6. 2012 04:13 PM

TalkTurkey

Welcome to all our newcomers! Sally,Dan, Dalesman, NeoTFC

TPS is a feisty fightin' site and it's good to gather grunt. Ad astra and Lyn make it so rewarding to keep coming back, and bona fide goodwillians are always welcome and respected here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Which would you rather have, with more than a year before the real Poll -
Wonderful markers for the economy but lousy "poll" figures,
or vice versa?

BISONs RULE! Smile

recaptcha: not timossio

Well neither am I!

VENCEREMOS!

TalkTurkey

June 6. 2012 04:25 PM

Ad astra

NeoTheFatCat
Welcome to The Political Sword family. Do come again.

Your words have a ring of authenticity.  My guess is that is exactly what Abbott would do.

You may be interest in my next comment.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 04:26 PM

Ad astra

NormanK, 42 long
I must say I chuckled when the GDP figures came out.  There they were, twice the growth our learned economists predicted.  Again, they got it wrong.  Why do they bother?

Here is the GDP announcement via Glen Dyer and Bernard Keane in Crikey:

” … Rumours of the slide in the Australian economy were exposed this morning by the best quarterly growth figures since Labor got into office: ABS figures show the economy grew by a solid 1.3% in the quarter, vastly faster than even the most optimistic of market forecasts of about 0.6%, and on an annual basis, by 4.3% in the 12 months to March, again much faster than 3.3% market forecasts.

www.crikey.com.au/.../

Here is the link to the ABS figures: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/5206.0?OpenDocument

Economists and economics correspondents never seem to look in the mirror and ask themselves how long they can go on dishing out their flawed forecasts, time and again?

This is not a new phenomenon.  In February 2009, I wrote The problem with economists www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...h-economists.aspx

It began:
The central problem with economists is that not one of them fully understands how the world economy came to be in the mess it’s in.  They can give partial explanations that describe a series of events and actions that have brought us to where we are, but these explanations are always incomplete.  The complexities of national economies and how they interact is so bewilderingly multifaceted, the intricacies of the interactions among the myriad of variables so byzantine, that the human brain is incapable of comprehending them.  Only a powerful computer would be capable of processing the millions of bits of information involved, and even if that were available, inputting the relevant data would be an overwhelming task.  Anyone familiar with systems theory and chaos theory will understand this.  So economists have to do the best they can with the limited information they have at their disposal and the inadequate processing capability available.  So we ought not to be too critical of their inability to give us unassailable insight and clear direction.

But an even greater problem with economists is that some are unaware of the problem just described.  They exhibit a sad unawareness of their own professional ignorance of the complexities involved and their own inadequacies.  The only thing that’s more damaging than ignorance is unawareness of that ignorance.  This is compounded if the unawareness is accompanied by an erroneous belief in one’s understanding and competence.  Some commentators on matters of economics are too willing to pontificate as if they really understand.  This serves only to mislead those who listen to them…


In September of the same year, becoming more exasperated, I wrote What value are economists to our society?. www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-our-society.aspx

I read it again just now.  Nothing has changed.

The conclusion included these words:

…we would all benefit immeasurably if those who are paid to write/speak for the media on economic matters were to stick to the facts, present them accurately in full and unembellished, and if interpretation is called for, put aside the bias of preferred economic models, and their political leanings, and call it the way an experienced unbiased economist would.  For journalists writing for some of our papers this would be a tall order.  But why should we be burdened by lack of expertise, conceptual bias and political distortion?  The subject matter is too important for each of us and for our economy for anything less than exemplary comment.”

You may find these pieces worth a glance.  There is scarcely one word I would change were I writing them today.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 04:30 PM

Ad astra

Folks
The link to the ABS figures is broken.  Here it is again:

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/5206.0?OpenDocument

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 04:33 PM

Ad astra

Folks
Sorry the link is broken again, but it will work if you copy the whole line into your browser's address box.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 04:38 PM

Gravel

Wowee, went for a short drive to have a look at our little bit of flooding here.  Got back home to hear the GDP figures.  Wowee, and then heard Swannie's speech, he sure hit it home to the naysayers about our economy.  I think it caught all the journalists by surprise.  He basically said no more doom and gloom.  All the Australian people  have done well and here's the numbers to prove it.  Stop the doom and gloom, be proud of our country's achievements.  Congratulations to all the Labor party, let's hope the media  and the whinging business take note and lower the doom and gloom temperature.

Talk Turkey

I just laughed and laughed "snake and pygmy pie".  Well done.

Gravel

June 6. 2012 04:39 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad

Thankyou very much for your new article another "award winning
Masterpiece".

I agree with Sally Abbott never had a PlanA.

11.32am Your post about Possum and the Great unhinging was most enjoyable Ad.
Amazing our Possum almost like he had a crysal ball, but no really what a brilliant analysis, as you said a must read by everybody.

(His piece on The King’s Tribune is well worth a thorough read by anyone who wants to better understand the current political turmoil.
www.kingstribune.com/.../1516-the-great-unhinging-revisited )

Ad You said:
(Only this week the OECD gave Australia’s economy a very glowing report, rating it as one on the best among advanced economies, even predicting it would surpass the US economy as the safest in the world for investors. This is the economy the Rudd/Gillard Government shielded from the GFC, one that it has fostered since into one with unemployment, interest rates, and inflation all under five percent. Yet how much front-page publicity does this get in the tabloids. None. Even the broadsheets give little exposure of Australia’s outstanding position and performance. The good news is buried. )

Well there is brilliant, beautiful, news today, pretty good Governing for a disfunctional Government

Another piece about Joe Hockey:-

Joe Hockey and the template of doom , Katherine Murphy, The Age
Forced to flick the default personality switch from ''generally avuncular'' to ''prophet of doom'', Hockey flailed at a loss, sinking deeper the more he spun in his own rhetorical quicksand.

Good economic news was just that. Good
www.theage.com.au/.../...-doom-20120606-1zvzv.html

SmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 6. 2012 04:47 PM

Cuppa

Hi Lyn,

Just like to say Thank You for the work you put in daily to bring us your Links and Twitterverse samplers.

They are one of the major elements of what keeps me coming back to this site. And the networking and forging of connections between TPS and the other blogs you promote must surely be vauluable too, as bringing together focuusses the effect of the energies of we folk with allied progressive aims.

Cuppa

June 6. 2012 04:59 PM

Ad astra

DMW
I could not get a copy of Laura Tingle’s Quarterly Essay from my newsagent either, as it was not yet out.  However, I was able to download it onto the iPad.  If that appeals to you, go to: www.quarterlyessay.com/issue/great-expectations and click on ‘Buy the essay’, and on the next page you will see in the right panel a not-very-easy-to-see link to ‘Readings Ebooks price: $9.95’.   Click that and it takes you to the next page where you can click ‘Buy now’ to download the Essay to your iPad, iPhone or Android.  If you click ‘guide’ in the paragraph below, you will see that it is also can be used on your desktop/laptop so long as you have Safari, Firefox, or Chrome browsers. Just follow the instructions.  One trick is that when you download the Essay after paying by credit card you will be sent an email that requires you to confirm your purchase, after which the Essay will appear as an icon on your screen.

I have done this, and am reading Laura’s Essay on the iPad.  It is great reading.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 05:08 PM

BSA Bob

A.A.
I thought this was a very good piece on reading it late this afternoon & went straight to the end of comments to put my effort in, so maybe someone else has said this;
I've long thought that Abbott's Plan B is simply to wing it. After all his principal objective of becoming PM will have been accomplished. And to wing it he will, as you say, blame everything on the previous government. And he will spend money, not everywhere but where there are votes. And he will need to get hold of that money, not worrying too much where it comes from so long as it doesn't offend his supporters.
Plus a hobbyhorse of mine, it'll be interesting (if that's the right word) to see what the media, having virtually created a country doing it tough in order to get Abbott in, will then do. Will we have more doom & gloom or will the sunny side of the same information & figures suddenly be presented so as to create a new & more confident outlook?

BSA Bob

June 6. 2012 05:19 PM

NormanK

Ad astra

I think I'm going to enjoy this game. Smile
AbbottWatch!

NormanK

June 6. 2012 05:20 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thank you once more for your kind words and your additional comments, and for the Katherine Murphy link.  What an article it is!

NormanK
Thanks to Lyn we have the link to Katherine Murphy’s piece in The Age:

Joe Hockey and the template of doom
.

www.theage.com.au/.../...-doom-20120606-1zvzv.html

While I realize you would be happy with just a link, this article is such hoot, I’m indulging myself by copying it all below:

POOR old Joe.

“Forced to flick the default personality switch from ''generally avuncular'' to ''prophet of doom'', Hockey flailed at a loss, sinking deeper the more he spun in his own rhetorical quicksand.

“Good economic news was just that. Good.

“Joe Hockey says Wayne Swan is the 'scariest thing in Australia.

“However the Coalition narrative demanded it be spun into something less good. Something bloody awful.

“Well, we were good, us plucky Aussies, spending and saving and growing, resilient and all — don't get me wrong.

“It was just The Government that was Bad. A shambles actually. And our success proved it — Australia could be, or perhaps it was already, paradise lost, or in danger of being lost, or ... something.

“Good economic data evidenced, somehow, the deficiency and incompetence of the Gillard Government. ''Imagine how well our country could do if we had a good government,'' Mr Hockey blustered, truly heroic in his quest for badness and sadness.

“And as for that Treasurer Wayne Swan, (who, given Australia's 4 per cent annual growth rate, had earlier called for a moratorium on doom saying about the economy?)

“Mr Swan was the ''scariest thing in Australia.''

“Adrian Dodd, on Twitter, pretended to agree with Mr Hockey's analysis. ''I loved him in Wolf Creek.'' Blogger Possum Comitatus did not pretend to agree. He demurred. ''There's scarier things in my fridge than Wayne Swan.''

“(This observation seemed, on balance, true enough — of my neglected fridge at least, given our buttoned down Treasurer bristles periodically, and broils, and sometimes permits himself to emit a squawk of pure, unvarnished irritation — but rarely bites.)

“The heroic Hockey epic badness analysis continued.

“This was not the time to price carbon (when Australia's rate of economic growth was among the strongest in the developed world).

“This was not the time to tax the mining industry (when the red-dust-on-the-shoes set doing so well they are expanding and investing and drilling and generally prospering to such a degree that one journalist today pointed out Western Australia was actually growing faster than China.)

“It was a simple case of black being white. If you say it often enough.

“Mr Hockey's little ironic smile that flashed as he departed the podium seemed to telegraph more than words could that it would have been better left unsaid.”


Now I know that this is Joe Hockey, not Tony Abbott, but can you imagine Abbott’s message being any more positive?

We’ll have to wait and see, but until I see or hear Abbott say anything to the contrary I’ll rest my case.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 05:39 PM

Ad astra

BSA Bob
I’m sure Abbott would try to ‘wing it’ if he got into power, and have his core and non-core promises, and blame everyone else but himself.  But he may have to change tactics well before the election lest ‘negative’ becomes fixed like a yoke around his neck, like ‘liar’ is around Julia’s neck.  If that were becoming an electoral liability, his minders would insist he changes toward the positive, towards statesmanship. My contention is that he is so stuck in negative mode that he cannot change, and even if he tried, everyone would see through the pretense.  Of course with a compliant media he could ‘get away with it’, but it may be in the manner that Basil Fawlty thought ‘he got away with it’ when he urged his staff to ‘Don’t mention the War’!

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 05:41 PM

Ad astra

NormanK
It is fun isn't it, and the risible material keeps rolling in.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 05:45 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
I think you should take off the rest of the day, and have a relaxing evening.  I know it's hard with all the amusement there is our there, but you've already done so much today, you deserve a rest.  Have a happy evening.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 05:53 PM

Cuppa

Ad Astra,

he is so stuck in negative mode that he cannot change, and even if he tried, everyone would see through the pretense

That's a wise and penetrating observation. His conservatism would, you'd imagine, be something like a straitjacket. Dynamic he is not. As Shaun Carney put it, determined but rarely creative.

It's another reason he's unsuited for the High Office he craves. The position demands someone who can move quickly to take abreast of changing conditions. A bull in a china shop comes to mind when considering Abbott.

Cuppa

June 6. 2012 05:57 PM

2353

AA - re you comment above about Economists.  When I did an economics subject for one of my qualifications, the lecturer came into the room for the first lecture and greeted us with this truism.  Welcome to the science of economics.  They will tell you that economists know and understand how the flow of money influences peoples lives - and to an extent they do, hence it is a science.  However if you put 100 economists in a room, give them a problem and they will give you an answer.  When the answer is wrong, the same people will give you 150 "good" reasons why the solution didn't happen.

I reckon the RBA Spokesman was on the money when it suggested last Monday that we weren't living in Greece.  It was seen at the time of being a counter view to "reality".  While not helped by companies like Harvey Norman claiming sales are slow or political parties preaching their "dysfunctional" line, Economists are also subject to "Groupthink".  It is a long stretch to believe that because sovereign loans might default in Europe, I won't buy food and other goods next week.  However that is how it seems the Economists work - and since the days of the Howard Government, the sentiment of money markets seems to be grist of the mill for the Australian media (which has the knock on effect of affecting the "mood" of Australian consumers,

2353

June 6. 2012 06:42 PM

Ad astra

Cuppa
He is not only lacking in adaptive skills as evidenced by his stereotypical response today to great GDP figures, but he would, as you put it, be the metaphorical bull in the china shop when urgent and delicate responses were needed, such as in international relations.

2353
As a scholar of economics, you know full well the validity of what I have been saying about economists now for years.  And today I note that they are out defending their lousy predictions by suggesting that there are hidden flaws in today’s figures and that things are not as good as they seem.  They are incorrigible and shameless.

Ad astra

June 6. 2012 06:44 PM

NormanK

Ad astra

That Murphy piece belongs in the 'Wow!' folder. She is one who can never bring herself to criticise the Coalition without tarring Labor with the same brush and in my estimation seems to be a big fan of Abbott. Is there more to this Hockey-bashing story than meets the eye?

Channel 10 Qld juxtaposed Abbott's 'dark clouds over the economy' remarks from yesterday with today's good figures. He looked incredibly foolish. Which probably only proves that 10 is interested in sensation rather than outright Labor-bashing.

Channel 9 began with "it may seem hard to believe but our economy is booming."
They appear more reluctant to give up their 'times are tough' narrative.

I look forward to Abbott's remarks when he finally surfaces.

NormanK

June 6. 2012 07:08 PM

Lyn

Hi Cuppa

Thankyou for your gratifying post at @ 4.47pm, you are a delightful contributor yourself.

Your words
(networking and forging of connections between TPS and the other blogs you promote must surely be vauluable too, as bringing together focusses )  

Apart from my admiration for writers, I have always believed in good public relations, therefore it is always my pleasure to introduce all our blog writers.  We have strength in numbers ,we must all stick together in our attempts to keep our Government in Government .

Talk Turkey thankyou for your kind words (Ad astra and Lyn make it so rewarding to keep coming back,)

I enjoyed your words to "How Much is That Doggie in The Window" very very clever thankyou Talk Turkey.

Ad Astra thankyou for caring I do think I will retire for the night, today has been very busy on the interwebs mind very interesting and enjoyable too.

I have noticed Joe Hockey has taken his bat and gone home, Tony Abbott has been in hiding again.  Somebody said Joe Hockey would have been told what to say at his Presser today, but I think
Numbers are Numbers would have been unscripted, hee hee hee.

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 6. 2012 07:48 PM

2353

AA - you're dead right and it is wonderful watching them squirm on TV tonight.  7:30 even cut Hockey off after he congratulated the Government on the impressive figures and Leigh Sales gave Swan a reasonable run as well.

Watch for the "opinion" pieces in the next few days justifying why the economist groupthink was wrong in yet another attempt to protect their reputation.

2353

June 6. 2012 07:49 PM

2353

Forgot to say thanks for the twitter links Lyn, that is how I knew Hockey's Presser today was disjointed at best.  Maybe thats why the ABC cut him off - that was all that was salvageable.

2353

June 6. 2012 08:25 PM

DMW

Wow,
I have totally distracted and mesmerised by Malcolm Fraser's Whitlam Oration.

Absolutely brilliant and for mine gives new meaning to {i}Age shall not weary them[/i]

I will come back to the shitstorm in a teacup I have created with my comments earlier today in a little while.

DMW

June 6. 2012 08:41 PM

TalkTurkey

Half-listening to Malcolm Fraser the Crazy Grazier at the Whitlam Institute. Bizarre.

Shounding like he'sh got a moushful of dentishts shwabsh.

He's sure not worth my undivided attention. It's pap.

Still self-excusing for 1975, 35 years on.
He spent a lot of times saying Ohh how he and Gough were at heart both just wanting what was best for Australia. How Gough and he have so much in common. Bleahhh. Regard for each other.

He still reckons if he had it to do all over again he'd do it all over Us.

Listen Fraser: Infinite pieces of silver would never pay you off for that act of treason, neither would all the perfumes of Arabia wash away the stink. Menzies and the Petrov scam: Bjelke-Petersen and Senator Field, you and the Coup; Howard and Children Overboard; Turnbull and Grech: you Fraser are one of a long line of traitors to our system and don't think I have failed to maintain my rage.

Oh there is one little thing you could do for Gough I reckon . . .  

Bloody Macbeth.

If he'd climbed down about 1975 even tonight I might not have said that last bit.  


TalkTurkey

June 6. 2012 08:42 PM

DMW

Anyone who doesn't understand why some people don't think Ms Gillard cuts it as PM and why Mr Abbott should never be PM had better listen to Malcolm Fraser's Whitlam Oration.

DMW

June 6. 2012 09:01 PM

Patriciawa

AA - look what happens when you tell Lynn to put her feet up!

Today Tonight interviews the hooker whom ACA had planned to use to spill the beans on Craig Thomson.   Instead it seems she has apologised to him, been interviewed by the police, was set up by ACA, offer $50K ........

Meanwhile we here at TPS are more concerned with things like the economy and ABC's interview with Treasurer Swann.  While Dear Mick Weir has his mind on Malcolm Fraser's Whitlam Oration.

What about the important news????

Patriciawa

June 6. 2012 09:26 PM

NormanK

Things that I'd like to hear said. #1

Leigh Sales: ..... is this the right time to impose the world's biggest carbon tax?

Wayne Swan: Leigh, I'd be interested to hear just what parameters you are using to ascribe the status of the 'world's biggest' to it but since I'm here to answer questions and not ask them we'll leave that for another day. I'd like to pull you up on one thing before I answer your question. And I will answer it.
What this government has legislated is not a carbon tax. It is an emissions trading scheme with a fixed price period. I can see by your face that you don't want to get into an argument over the semantics and I won't waste your viewers' time on that.

But, you know, there is such a thing as a carbon tax. Many countries around the world have carbon taxes. In fact, if carbon taxes were sentient beings they would be deeply affronted by some upstarts down in Australia taking their name in vain.

What the Coalition and a good many commentators have done is the equivalent of painting white stripes on a black pony and calling it a zebra.
It looks like a zebra.
Except for the ears.
And the tail.
And the mane.
Oh, and the white paint.
Actually, it's not a zebra, it's a pony with white stripes painted on it.
Our legislation is not a carbon tax, it is an emissions trading scheme with a fixed price period.
If you want to hear a succinct description of a carbon tax might I suggest that you get on to YouTube and search for 'Tony Abbott, carbon tax'. He does a very good job.
Now to answer your question .....

NormanK

June 6. 2012 11:03 PM

DMW

In my comment @ 3:36 PM I wrote In some ways it is right that it doesn't matter who is in government, the economy will do what the economy does.

I must apologise for not italicising, bolding and underlining In some ways.  If I had it may not have elicited Normak's comment @ 3:54 PM:
Oh No! You've been infected!  which I took in jest but wondered when I got to No difference between them? PAH!

I am not sure why what I wrote caused psyclaw @ 4:11 PM to write But LT did not say that they control nothing. Nor did she say that the major parties are in fact six of one and half a dozen of the other.  as if that is what I was saying.

I did not say, or imply, that government has no effect on the economy and it may have been missed that I did write It will matter who has hold of the reins ...  and, I suspect this is where the misunderstanding comes in, that I invoked Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum with respect of going into the campaigm and note this ... telling us the truth that there are some very bitter pills for us to swallow if we don't change the 'what is in for me and entitlement mentalities' that seem very prevalent at present.

At this time both sides are unable to to 'come clean' and admit that there is an entitlement mentality that they each wish to feed according to their own priorities and to suit their own agendas.

We all need to recognise this and then choose which agenda we think will be the best course for the then elected government to follow so that WE and then the country prospers. Note carefully that I put WE first deliberately as, both sides are feeding the mythconception that the government can solve all our individual problems without pain and ahead of the common good of the nation and that we as individuals are the most important consideration.

Rereading my comments I cannot see where I suggested that government has no effect on the economy or that I suggested that it didn't matter which side held the reins.

I will stand by my statement:
In some ways  it is right that it doesn't matter who is in government, the economy will do what the economy does.

Why?
Take the complete and utter bullshit about interest rates. The treasurer sprouts words like 'banks must pass on the FULL cut'. He should know it doesn't work that way anymore and is made a fool of when they don't. Jovial Joe makes a different fool of himself when he claims he would be better at jawboning the banks into passing on the full cut in rates.

It wouldn't Matter if it Joe Hockey or Wayne Swan was doing the jawboning the banks will do what they consider in the best interests of their business.

It doesn't matter a twopenny toss if Joe or Wayne is treasurer China will do what China does just as the US, Europe and all our other trading partners will do what they do.

It will matter how Joe or Wayne respond to what the rest of the world throws at us however we need to note that advice from treasury etc. will come from much the same people only tweeked to suit the priorities of the government. No matter who is treasurer the great bulk of treasury staff will be the same and will for the most part provide the same high standard of impartial advice no matter the name of the tresurer.

It will matter if Joe or Wayne choose to take or ignore the advice and here we could debate what one or the other would do but we won't know until a situation arises.

DMW

June 6. 2012 11:13 PM

TalkTurkey

Well said NormanK, exactly right.

He did do very well to smack her quite firmly with the term price on carbon four times in a single paragraph after she rudely, pointedly, don't-try-to-tell-me-innocently called it a carbon tax . . . He went for a subtle approach really . . .

More importantly again though, *J*U*L*I*A* and the whole team must similarly go for the jugular wrt tarring with the same brush. They must do it vehemently, brooking no interruption, finger-jabbing to say DON'T interrupt again! Until I have finished my answer to your last question. Have some manners! Have some respect! My colleagues and I don't try to shout you down, now listen to an answer to your own question!

I hate Labor politicians' being so deferential to these lowlife self-important agenda-driven media persons. Self proclaimed wellread heads or no.

Come on Comrades, Go for the throat!

Praise be to Dog, Dog is definitely on our side. What a wonderful few days for Labor! Thomson, Slipper, world's best economy bar none, Hockey unwhindging, Abbortt in full retreat, I fear he might not last till September-November after all, but have no fear Folks, we've got Turdball covered too and there's no-one else.

Swan, Hockey about to be on Lateline. Will they mention prostitute?

YES! There she is!

WHOO-HOO!WHO-HOO! WHO-HOO!
Abbortt's in the POO!
Hey Ho the Derry-Oh!
And Snotty Joe is too!  

The great dismemberment. Not unhinging. We must help the process as much as we can ourselves.

Nothing could ever pay Craig Thomson back for what he and his family have been falsely put through. But a few million dollars compensation should help ease the pain of losing his ALP membership!

ACA how deep are your pockets? I hope we get your trousers too. Bastards.

TalkTurkey

June 6. 2012 11:19 PM

DMW

Hi PWA
your comment @ 9:01 PM was intriguing.

What about the important news????

I guess it is important to Mr Thomson that the prostitute has recanted. To me interesting but not particularly important.

I guess for anyone who hadn't heard Mr Swans presser or any of his earlier interviews then the same old, same old 7:30 thing could be important.

Mr Fraser's speech tonight may not be important to many people however, there was a lot of wise words spoken by him and it can only be hoped that some of the wiser heads in both parties listened, took note, and, with a bit of luck and a fair breeze, act upon some of the advice. We will all be better off if that happens.

So what was the important news then?

DMW

June 6. 2012 11:46 PM

NormanK

DMW

Calm down.
Oh No! You've been infected! Smile Smile
Is that any better?

I concede that I didn't pay enough heed to "in some ways" and headed off down the path without glancing over my shoulder.
It wasn't aimed at you. Just having a dummy-spit at "their all as bad as each other" which is what I read even though it isn't what you wrote (or contended that Tingle wrote).

Sorry. Embarassed

NormanK

June 7. 2012 12:03 AM

Patriciawa

Tongue in cheek, DMW!  I was actually commending you. I do agree that Fraser's speech was important and the prostitute recanting was trivia. Obviously my attempt at irony didn't work.  

I was also teasing Lyn.  She had worked so hard all day and made it so easy for all of us to pick up on all the important interviews and tweets that she really did deserve to put her feet up, as AA suggested.  By the way Lyn, this is for you. I hope the link works.
twitter.com/.../1



Patriciawa

June 7. 2012 12:05 AM

DMW

Hi NormanK,
no apology required I was not offended by your comments.

As I said I did take the infected bit in jest but bu@@ered up saying it with  the next part of the sentence How unusual for me Tong

I have had my innards and thinking cap stirred up quite a bit tonight by a number of other things and guess typed some of it out in that response.

In the end it is just a discussion.

DMW

June 7. 2012 12:09 AM

DMW

NK,
sometimes I reckon it would be great to add real facial expressions and tones and inflections of voice to a written comment.

Suitably raised eyebrows and impish grins would be a bonus some days.

DMW

June 7. 2012 12:27 AM

NormanK

DMW  Have a good night. I hope tomorrow is better for you.

Rejoice!
Jackson making a fool of herself in court.
Great GDP figures.
Hockey made an absolute goose of himself.*
Abbott is the invisible man.
Thomson hooker story debunked.

'Night.

*Pop over to AFV and have a look at what George has done with the Hockey presser.
afrankview.net/.../#comment-10435


PS @ yours 12:09 AM

I posted in haste earlier. Something that I usually try to avoid. Sorry if I added to a bad day.
-Pat on shoulder emoticon- Smile

NormanK

June 7. 2012 12:29 AM

DMW

PWA @ 12:03 AM
gees it looks like I took the upside down and back to front pills last night.

Maybe it was too much time reflecting in the mirror attempting to shave and seeing things right to left instead of left to right.

I will try to remember in the morning only two pink pills and one brown instead of six of each Smile

Was there any important news though? or more of the same?

Guess the second cos I just a glimpse of a promo for Today Tonight something about more confessions from the paid lady

DMW

June 7. 2012 02:50 AM

TalkTurkey

Patricia
I think *J*U*L*I*A* is a stunningly beautiful woman with an absolutely dazzling smile which I am seeing more and more often as she becomes surer of achieving her goals.

Doesn't she look pretty with that little kid.

Notice this though. To a foreigner who didn't know who the woman is, this would not, in the very first instant take, be a woman with a baby, it would be a redhaired woman with a redhaired baby.  

Red hair is a double-edged sword. It is the object of envy and the object of derision, of desire and revulsion. You get your Rita- Hayworth-beautiful or your Ling-(that played for the Cats)-frightful. But whatever, a redhead will always be noticed first, most often, and forever. No matter what you do. Like being highlighted. Whether you do well, or brilliantly, average or lousy, you will not escape attention. And if you don't do well above fair, you don't live up to expectations because somehow more is expected of redheads. Redheaded kids are vastly over-represented in advertising, boys because ranga boys are supposed to have very devilry in their makeup, girls because, oh well here goes my colour prejudice, they're so drop-dead dazzling. It's a sort of quasiracism about redheads, everybody including redheads have it,  but it's got both good and bad points for those condemned to a conspicuous life.

If you do really well then it's a great boon. You stand out so.

*J*U*L*I*A* has made sure at every stage of her life that she has performed above and beyond the ordinary, always at the front of every group, first to be noticed and first to speak up, authoritative, never intimidated, always defiant, yet always sensible and conciliatory. I think she is a wondress. I don't put everybody's name up in lights you may notice. I always do hers.

But she is daily done a great injustice. She is a true beauty in my humble opinion. I may say that a bloke, like Ling, makes his marine namesake look like Adonis, and he'll grin (I hope);
But women put such effort into looking attractive, they do love compliments on their appearance, and does anyone ever say what I'm saying now? All she gets is snide nasty jealous comments from almost all sides, present company excepted, even that rotten old nag Germy Greer, about, well you know, earlobes bum nose clothing accent and Dam, she's actually LOVELY!

Nobody else hardly ever says so!

I said in The Lass from Yarralumla (TPS, oct12 2010)

So Our Ranga Lass was targeted by jibes and sexist jokes:
Her Titian locks were tweaked, her finely-chiselled nose took pokes
By those of the moral wee-ness of a teensy flaccid penis . . .
(I had to write that there so it could rhyme with Megalogenis!)


I think she is delightful to look upon, and to those who sneer, Fie, may it burn your eyes to do so.  

TalkTurkey

June 7. 2012 05:38 AM

Jaeger

William over at the other place just linked to the following article by Malcolm Maiden:
www.theage.com.au/.../...right-20120606-1zwmh.html
I hope that he follows up on why he and others got it wrong (maybe), and that other doomsayers also post a mea culpa (unlikely.)  

Re: Abbott's Plan B, I think it's this:
images2.fanpop.com/.../...ail-12387340-720-276.jpg
(Embroidered after Sir Rabbott's latest press conference.)

Jaeger

June 7. 2012 07:30 AM

Lyn



TODAY’S LINKS

The plot begins to unravel - will Abbott and Pyne be left holding the thread-, Clarence Girl, North Coast Voices
must have been a hard twenty-four hours for the Coalition lynch-mob headed by Opposition Leader Tony Abbott and his trusty henchman Christopher Pyne.First a Federal Court judge asked for reasons to be presented as to why he should not find Health Services Union (HSU) national secretary Kathy Jackson in contempt
northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/.../...t-and.html

Fear and loathing down under: how News Ltd and Tony Abbott have talked down the Australian economy, Watching the Deniers
Or course, it’s easy to see who is leading that fear campaign: Tony Abbot and the Myrmidon legions of News Ltd, It is incredible to witness the spectacle of conservatives claiming to be “protecting” the Australian economy from the carbon tax effectively destroying consumer confidence.
watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/.../

GDP Grows by 1.3%, Greg Jericho, Grog’s Gamut
Well today at 11:30 the ABS released the National Accounts, and wow!  I mean wow!!What a beautiful set of numbers. Quarterly GDP growth of 1.3% in seasonally adjusted terms and 0.9% in trend terms, leading to a booming annual seasonally adjusted GDP growth of 4.3%.
grogsgamut.blogspot.com.au/.../...grows-by-13.html

Chart of the day – productivity growth surge, Matt Cowgill
labour productivity in the market sector grew at its fastest pace in over a decade. I’m sure this will be a major focus of the news coverage tomorrow, just as the disappointing productivity numbers were closely examined in early 2011. Just in case The Australian doesn’t choose to highlight the issue, here’s a handy chart for your
mattcowgill.wordpress.com/.../

Oh. Productivity is up. What'll they moan about-, Peter Martin
http://www.petermartin.com.au/

CONVERTIBLE: Kathy Jackson accused of using HSU money to buy shiny red sports-car from Hong Kong, Vex News
Senior sources within the Australia’s most toxic trade union, the HSU, have told VEXNEWS they will shortly provide alarming new information to Victoria Police detailing one of the mysterious transactions exposed on the highly informative Independent Australia website.
www.vexnews.com/.../

Who’s watching The Watchers? We are! (The Complete Failure of the Media To Hold Tony To Account): Guest Post, Turn Left 2013
While the media may be remiss in their duty to the public, we bloggers will take up the slack. We will scrutinise Abbott and the Coalition, even if the mainstream are reluctant or fearful to do so.
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

The Whitlam Oration given by Malcolm Fraser: Politics, Independence and the National Interest, Turn Left 2013
“Politics, Independence and the National Interest: the legacy of power and how to achieve a peaceful Western Pacific
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

Pollylim; Joe Hockey and the GDP, Archie, Archiearchive
Tone hasn’t the words so I’m here , To talk of the numbers I fearAs out there  I lumbers, The numbers are the numbers, And all I can do is to jeer.
archiearchive.wordpress.com/.../

Forget the doom and gloom: GDP powers up, Glenn Dyer and Bernard Keane, Crikey
Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey, their response to yesterday’s RBA cut was to say that it reflected a soft economy caused by poor economic management. Swan might now be awfully tempted to invoke the old footy expression: look at the scoreboard, fellas.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

From The Great Barrier Reef: a message, Café Whispers
We are in the coal business. If you want decent hospitals, schools and police on the beat, we all need to understand that,” Campbell Newman said. That which followed almost immediately was a statement from Environment Minister Tony Burke who suggested that the Commonwealth would “take back control of major environmental approvals from the Queensland government”.
cafewhispers.wordpress.com/.../

Why don’t you know what you’ll get paid?Bethanie Blanchard, Crikey
Writing, as many of us joke to ourselves, is not something you get into for the money. But it is, certainly, possible to earn a living from. However, the outdated view that writing for money is vulgar, crass, and somehow devaluing the art, is something we should work against
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

Malcolm Fraser: 2012 Gough Whitlam Oration , Malcolm Faser, The Conversation
Politics, Independence and the National Interest: the legacy of power and how to achieve a peaceful Western Pacific
theconversation.edu.au/malcolm-fraser-2012-gough-whitlam-oration-7524

Chart Pack  Banking Indicators, Reserve Bank of Australia
Stephen Koukoulas‏ For all those bank bashers: Look at chart on net interest margins in the RBA chart pack
www.rba.gov.au/chart-pack/banking-indicators.html

TODAY’S FRONT PAGES
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 7 June 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Video

Joe Does Eleventy Comedy.m4v , Brilliant video clip by George Bludger
www.youtube.com/watch

Lyn

June 7. 2012 07:38 AM

2353

NormanK - at least Leigh Sales gave Swan a chance to make his case - unlike the "Maternity Leave Relief" host.

DMW - your comment at 3:36 yeaterday is correct.  The economy will do what the economy does, the economists will consume gallons of printers ink defending themselves when they are wrong (again) and regardless of the "economic problems" in whereever, the Australain economy is currently doing well.  Who are the better economic managers?

2353

June 7. 2012 07:47 AM

Psyclaw

DMW

I am not sure why what I wrote caused psyclaw @ 4:11 PM to write But LT did not say that they control nothing. Nor did she say that the major parties are in fact six of one and half a dozen of the other.  as if that is what I was saying.

My first two paragraphs ie 4 lines referred to you as an acknowledgement that you had introduced the topic.

From then on I was attempting to widen the discussion and expected that you would reply, affirming and expanding on what I had said. But you took another direction.

You will note that there is absolutely no reference to you from paragraph 3 onwards ...... it was a reflection on what LT (a hero of mine and one with whom I often exchange emails) had specifically not said.

I was just proposing that LT had not written an article about the government being totally impotent with regards to the economy, but that what she was emphasising was their reluctance to admit that their hands are not actually on some of the major levers.

This was an oblique warning to anyone foolish enough to say that if what LT says is true, then the world's greatest treasurer is a fraud, and other such rubbish. And to spell this out for you, in saying this I was not referring to anyone in particular.

Rest assured that if I ever think that your writing is nonsense, I will say something like "DMW, that is nonsense" and argue why I hold such a view. I think I may have done this in the past and will possibly do so in the future, but I will be explicit about it.

Psyclaw

June 7. 2012 08:27 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

June 7. 2012 08:56 AM

Patriciawa

Talk Turkey, lovely comment on Julia.  So glad you were able to connect with that link to the pic at Marie Clare.  It was intended as thank you for Lyn but of course I hoped it would be shared and enjoyed by us all here.

Already Lyn's Links have set me on course as always, but they are a specially good start to the day this morning so I hope she does see this as a special thank you from me. I wonder if Ad Astra can bring it up as a picture outside of his main post?

twitter.com/.../1



Patriciawa

June 7. 2012 09:18 AM

TalkTurkey

Anyone see Katter with Michael Rowland and Carina Carvalho?
He refused to be interrupted, as *J*U*L*I*A* refuses to be interrupted (except by POOs) in Parliament, and as Bob Brown does with the Media (because they have never done him any favours, and he will have his say!) but as no-one in the Labor front bench does, mainly through the curse of decent manners, not the lack of guts. But of course for the sake of the Party none dare offend the piggish presenters, (e.g. Wormtongue Jones on LL last night.) And they hurt real easy, and they support each other jealously against being held to account.

Well Labor must take a leaf from Mad Katter's Book of Amazing Mouth. Talk over and through the interruptions, and force the interviews to focus on matters of substance.

IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!

Go for the larynx Labor! DO it!

TalkTurkey

June 7. 2012 09:28 AM

Glorfindel

@ Ad astra

I had a very quick trawl through some of the Courier-Mail archives, in Feb 2010 they were carrying articles like "Anna Bligh and Labor facing electoral annihilation" - based on Galaxy polling.

Fast forward to the actual election in March 2012 and the result - annihilation for Anna and the Qld ALP.

So in 24 months Anna couldn't go what you expect Gillard to do in 18. And Anna was a good campaigner with a proven track record, whereas Gilard's track record is that of ineptitude.

Voting intentions now are that the party will cop a hiding in the next federal election. What is the magical method by which that will change?? (Apart from the obvious leadership change)

If I may use an analogy,
The next summer Olympics is a couple of months away. Now I have no chance whatsoever of winning gold in the 100 meters at that event.

However the Olympics in Rio is 4 years away. 4 years that's a heck of a long time isn't it. Because that's such a long time I must be a certainty to win gold in the 100 meters in Rio, right ?

That's essentially how I'm reading your argument in a nutshell. Failure + time = success.

It's ludicrous. Tell me what I'm missing.

Glorfindel

June 7. 2012 09:34 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad and Everybody

Twitterverse for you all:-


National Times AU Phillip Coorey
Hockey hasn't looked so uncomfortable since Australia last avoided recession.www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120606-1zwpy.html via @NationalTimesAU

Financial Review‏@FinancialReview
rises towards parity with #USD on economic commentary, #GDP. [free] #ausbiz #forex www.afr.com/.../rises_on_economic_commentary_gdp_8iQGtHJLVgS53QXJaIdsm

smh.com.au‏@smh
National News: The good, the bad and the two-speed economy http://bit.ly/JY03q4 #australia

The Age‏@theage
Big four banks ignore rate cuts in pursuit of profits at their own peril, writes Ian Verrender. www.theage.com.au/.../...light-20120606-1zwlq.html via @theage

lloydois‏@lloydois
@ALeighMP Political 'opinion' worth readingwww.smh.com.au/.../...of-gloom-20120606-1zwq0.html

Think Big‏@Thought4rce
Some apologies are in order alright but I doubt we'll ever get any from #LtdNews or #TheirABC. www.theage.com.au/.../...right-20120606-1zwmh.html #auspol

Miss Eagle‏@misseagle
Good one on Joe Hockey and the template of doom. Need more to call on stupidity of opposition tactics.\\ http://ow.ly/bpuiQ

Ken ‏@KoenjiEikaiwa
He is sitting on a million dollars of Liberal Party money I think it's all quite immoral Typical Liberal http://yhoo.it/KSyfmp

Ken ‏@KoenjiEikaiwa
Australia's economy's ALL THE WAY TRIPLE AAA & Michelle Grattan agrees http://bit.ly/MHwVpa Abbott Hockey Robb will destroy it WorkChoices

The Age‏@theage
Surprise surge in the economy means Australia has one of the fastest growth rates in the developed world. www.theage.com.au/.../...onomy-20120606-1zwrg.html via @theage

The Punch‏@ThePunchHQ
Chinese whispers: Packer’s porkies on pokies: So, James Packer wants to turn Sydney into Macau and milk wealthy ... http://bit.ly/MHgHfG

John Pratt‏@Jackthelad1947
Public transport fares to rise Liberal govt. always increase prices on public transport. Billionaires use chauffeurs http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/-1zwqp.html

Miss Eagle‏@misseagle
Family doctors in Ballarat a thing of the past -- The Courier http://ow.ly/bpsIs

CRAIG THOMSON:-

smh.com.au‏@smh
News: Ex-prostitute 'screwed over' by ACA http://bit.ly/MfI7qG

Peter Johnstone‏@sem4peter
Statement by @ACurrentAffair9 - a desperate attempt to back track on a sordid attempt destroy #Thomson #Mediafail

Dafid‏@davidlen2
@smh @theage @australian @abcnews as Craig Thomson attack by you all collapses & the Slipper/Ashby beatup to be revealed hope you get DONE

James Massola‏@jamesmassola
RT @ACurrentAffair9: Statement by @ACurrentAffair9 regarding allegations made by Channel 7 https://www.facebook.com/ACurrentAffair9

'Thomson's prostitute' speaks, Video, Channel 7
She says the executive producer of A Current Affair, Grant Williams, had contacted her in May offering to pay her $60,000 to fly to Sydney.
However she declined to accept the money, claiming she was in New Zealand in May 2005, when she supposedly had Thomson as a client.
au.news.yahoo.com/.../thomson-prostitute-speaks-out

Peter‏  OMarian
"A Current Affair" should now be called "A Trumped up Affair" good to see gutter press gutting each other for a change m.smh.com.au/.../...th-thomson-20120606-1zwed.html

Prostitute retracts claim that she slept with MP Craig Thomson , News Com
The woman said she felt awful about the damage done to Mr Thomson's reputation and wanted to set the record straight.

"I can't apologise more for putting you all through all of this,'' she said. "Craig Thomson, your family, your friends, whoever else this might have affected, I hope you can accept my apology.''

Mr Thomson has consistently denied paying for prostitutes with a union credit card when he ran the Health Services Union between 2002 and 2007.
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fndsip4d-1226386700276

vexnews‏@vexnews
Today Tonight's powerful story exposing A Current Affair's deceit and trickery on Thomson #auspol http://bit.ly/LtzQKZ

John Pratt‏@Jackthelad1947
Channel Nine aired ex-prostitute's claim on Thomson, even when she said it wasn't true. Trash Media http://www.theage.com.au/national/-1zwre.html

HSU investigation could lay charges against ex-officials
www.smh.com.au/.../...fficials-20120606-1zwld.html


SmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 7. 2012 09:35 AM

TalkTurkey

Patricia

Re your hope that Lyn will not miss that photo - fat chance!

Tweetie has the All-Seeingest Eye in the entire Blogoverse.

  

TalkTurkey

June 7. 2012 09:50 AM

Lyn

Hi Patriciawa

Thankyou for your appreciative words, I love the picture of Julia, that was nice of you to post it for me.SmileSmileSmile

2353 07:49 PM last night, glad you enjoyed the tweets, thankyou for your acknowledgement.

Somebody said :-
Why is that ex Prostitute wearing Michelle Grattan's glasses.

Julia Gillard‏
I'm joining Mamamia to have a chat about child care. You can join us & ask questions here - www.mamamia.com.au/.../ JG


SmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 7. 2012 09:51 AM

TalkTurkey

From TURNLEFT's website:

Note for non-Australian visitors

In Australia "Liberal" is Right-Wing Neo-Cons; economically liberal, socially repressive, tax the poor to subsidise the rich. Republican is also* a good thing, as opposed to being a lackey of the British monarchy.

I reckon that is a nutshellful! Smile

*I think the 'also' should be changed to 'conversely' or just dropped, but I'm Oberleutnant Grammanazi don't forget.

TalkTurkey

June 7. 2012 10:46 AM

Psyclaw

Glorfindel

tell me what I am missing

You are missing several things ......

(1) The nature of Queenslanders as shown on QandA this week ..... quite different to ordinary people. (cf the deep south of the US)

(2) JG is implementing very future oriented, sustainable, national programs which will make life better for many, including Queenslanders (NBN, NDIS, new green industries, and yes the MRRT too).

(3) Abbott Vs Newman ..... the latter is not the consistent  liar, fool, economic illiterate, self serving pugilistic, narcissistic, policy bereft , ideologistic, populist, do-anything-to-gain-power charlatan the LOTO is. Newman certainly has faults but IMHO is no way in Abbott's league as far as lacking true leadership skills go.

(4) Newman had strong within-pary support. Abbott relies on his "hypnosis" of the many moderates in the party by the adrenalin rush his pugilism vicariously gives them, but this is not sustainable.

(5) Newman was able to present actual policies in his campaign. Abbott has none and those he purports to have, he cannot logically  articulate.

(6) Some of Abott's policies are actual pie in the sky which he can't and won't implement eg repeal the carbon pricing and all the compensation.

(7) Abbott's signature policy, the parental leave scheme, is derided by many of his team.


I could go on, but these few examples show that  to compare the Gillard V Bligh circumstances is to compare apples and zebras

Psyclaw

June 7. 2012 11:05 AM

Ad astra

Good Morning Lyn
Thank you again for the links and Twitterverse.  What an interesting read they are.  The print media has been more critical of Joe Hockey’s bumbling performance than has radio and TV, but I see that Michelle Grattan, who was critical, still negated the positive aspects with her heading: Positive message, but is anyone still listening? She just couldn’t resist.

The Craig Thomson matter becomes more ludicrous by the day.  I hope last night’s revelations will settle matters down for a while and give Julia Gillard some clear air to get her good messages out.  

It was a lovely photo of her that Patriciawa provided.  I can’t post it as a photo, but the links works.

Thank you Patriciawa.  Is this the woman that Michelle Grattan insists people have stopped listening to?

Ad astra

June 7. 2012 11:06 AM

LadyInRed

Good article ad astra. Very interesting reading about Abbott's description on his boxing match and yes I can see that something as monumentous as his win in front of a crowd of cheering cohorts, when by all accounts he didn't expect it, would leave a long lasting impression and influence his political style. It is not an endearing quality though, hence he isn't liked by the ellectorate. As for a plan B over to Tony:

Look ....ah...yes well....ah....I'd like to have a plan B....of course I would...but.....ah....well...ah....that would involve me having to think of one..... and.... ah..... well....ah....I try not to do that.....ah.....think....that is ah I try not to think that is.

And people have the cheek to say that Julia's voice grates on them. Abbott's panning out of his statements with as many ah's and well's and his penchant for rocking back and forth ensures that he doesn't end up saying anything in 30 seconds. Can-do starts a LOT of his statements to the media with "Look" ...and all that implies (its a very bad way to begin an answer). Any budding politicians in the audience - never start an answer with LOOK! (Look implies to me he thinks the audience, or recipient of the answer, is stupid or just doesn't get it!)

As for the off chance of a Plan B. If he, or someone else in his camp do come up with a plan B it would be a big shift to go from combative to something different as Abbott seems to enjoy, or he seems so comfortable, with what he does, it is part of who he is. To change would take a lot of personal insight.

LadyInRed

June 7. 2012 12:51 PM

Ad astra

LadyinRed
Thank you for your kind comment. I think you are right when you say it would be a big shift for Tony Abbott to go into a non-combatative mode.  Only yesterday we saw that even in the face of great news for this country, he continued his negative mode, and is still doing so this morning.

Ad astra

June 7. 2012 12:52 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I'll be out and about for the rest of the day.

Ad astra

June 7. 2012 01:51 PM

Glorfindel

@  Psyclaw,

Thank you for the response, it's nice that somebody has finally put a bit of effort into a reply.

I'm going to quibble with you on a few points though:

1. In NSW where polling in 2010 showed that Labor was set to lose ? What was the result down the track there ? Why are Qlders different and in what regard and how does this affect voting intention over time? I don't find unsubstantiated generalisations overly helpful.

2. Bligh had some exceptional reforms over her last 18 months and how did that help? She also spent a motza of the state's money on political advertising – that didn't help either. Yes the NBN is a great bit of work but it won't be fully  rolled out for another 10 years - next election 18 months. The NIDS is fantastic policy that will help about 20k people, whereas according to the AEC about 12 million votes were cast last election. And the MRRT still causes as much controversy as ever.

3. John-Paul Langbroek was leader when the polls were taken in 2010, not Newman. I'd agree though that Newman is a better politician than Abbott however Newman had some baggage as former Brisbane Lord Mayor that he had to overcome.  

4. When Neman announced his intentions to stand for a state seat and become LNP leader both Langbroek and Springborg immediately resigned their party positions and he was challenged strongly for the leadership by Fiona Simpson. So I don't know in which alternative universe the strong party support happened. Yep the party fell behind him when they thought he was a good chance of leading them to victory but I doubt that's much different to the Abbott situation. In Abbott's last leadership ballot he was elected unopposed.

5. Newman made a number of motherhood statements such as “reducing the cost of living” and growing a “four pillar economy” and a 4% unemployment target that he backed away from the day after he announced it. Until he re-embraced it. I guess it still counts as policy though. Probably no better thought out than a policy of “stop the boats” though.

6. Some of Nemwan's policies are pie in the sky that he can't implement such as a freeze on vehicle registration costs.

7. I'd be surprised if there weren't disagreements on policy within all the political parties, consider the health reforms, the ETS and the MRRT seems that there were differences within the party regarding those.

Also Newman had the challenge of running from outside of parliament and defeating a strong local member in a reasonably secure seat. Neither such handicap affects Abbott.

I wouldn't mind if you did go on please, perhaps with a tiny bit more accuracy. How and why will Gillard turn those poll number around?

Glorfindel

June 7. 2012 02:27 PM

NormanK

AbbottWatch

Sticking with Plan A.

Mr Abbott said encouraging figures were "always welcome''.

"But a lot of Australians today are saying, 'Wayne Swan does not live in the same world that we inhabit','' the Opposition Leader said in Victoria this morning.

"He's running around patting himself on the back, calling himself the 'world's greatest treasurer'.

"What I see people are saying is: 'shops closing down, my job under pressure, my wages under pressure, my costs going up' _ and look we're all delighted to see that the mining industry is still strong and we're all thrilled that the mining industry is carrying the Australian economy.

"So look let's be grateful for small mercies and that's what I suppose those figures yesterday were. But economic management does not depend on the occasional good statistic. Economic management depends upon consistent good policy and that's what we haven't had from this government.''

www.dailytelegraph.com.au/.../story-e6freuy9-1226387441542

He can't possibly sustain this line of nonsense in the face of continuing good economic data - low interest rates, steady low unemployment, low inflation, AAA ratings, low public debt levels. At some point he is going to look as foolish as Comical Ali.

Abbott spruiking doom and gloom as the economy rises up around him is going to acquire the look of Buster Keaton in reverse. Keaton kept his head whilst all about him was chaos. Abbott is furiously pointing to the supposed chaos when in fact Australia is quietly getting on with the job of remaining prosperous. We loved Keaton for his childlike naivety but I don't think Abbott is going to elicit the same response.

NormanK

June 7. 2012 02:40 PM

TalkTurkey

NK

The look of Buster Keaton in reverse?

That'd be the look of Custer Beaten!

LOL!

TalkTurkey

June 7. 2012 03:08 PM

Gravel

Woke up this morning to 774, (via the computer) with Red singing "We're the tops...." and other people ringing in getting into the swing of it.  It was really great.  Then you get to the news.  Gloom and doom merchants abound.   It was a real come down.

I love how everyone here is so positive at the moment.  I don't know why, but I have a nagging doubt.  

Couldn't believe, after watching the AFP person live and saying the people smuggler person has left the country, that the ABC commentors went on as if they weren't responsible by their irresponsible reporting.

Glad to hear  that Craig Thomson has once again been vindicated in his stance.

Couldn't listen to Abbott rabbit on and on, caught the words carbon tax and hit the mute button.

Gravel

June 7. 2012 04:01 PM

TalkTurkey

Look I'm not a man to boast . . . Smile . . .

but at the risk of ponderous belabouring of the joke

did yous-all grok on that last Spoonerism of mine?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

" . . . the look of Buster Keaton in reverse . . ." ?

. . . That'd be the look of Custer Beaten!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can't let it pass into obscurity without pointing out its sublime multiple dimensions.

1. It is a perfect Spoonerism (btw phonetics not spelling is QED. In fact vive la difference wrt spelling)

2. It has real and obvious meaning. Not a good look!
Custer beaten is about as beaten as it gets.

3. There's a bit of irony (Hollywood hero vis-a-vis historical fool)

4. It is precisely the very meaning that NK meant!

5. So really it's all a pun, with feeling! Tres elegant n'est-ce pas? . . . .?  N'est-ce pas ? . . .

(Flaunts tailfeathers in fan for applause.) Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AyEQRtbWkk

I found it surprising
In my first appraising
But now I'm surmising
[i]You
'll find it amazing!

(I found that one in the 1970's, it sort of actually applies here too.)

I love a fortunistic pun . . .
It's just opportunistic fun . . .
And I guess when all's said and done
It really
Don't
Hurt
Any
One.  

TalkTurkey

June 7. 2012 04:38 PM

jaycee

After all the ACA. FWA. Jackson, Lawler, Pyne, Brandis, H.R.Nichols lawyers and Liberal Party machinations over Craig Thomson which blind Freddy can see was an attempt to bring down the elected govt'..Why are there not some charges of sedition being raised against some quarters?.....C'mon Roxon, get a bit nasty and start the investigation!...we are waiting! Let the law follow its' course.

jaycee

June 7. 2012 04:47 PM

TalkTurkey


Gravel you said

I love how everyone here is so positive at the moment.  I don't know why, but I have a nagging doubt.

Erm . . . Um . . . Could it be that you are a doubting nag?

(Remembers to duck . . Smile )

No I really didn't mean that, we know you worry, well me too Girl, but just being upbeat is an act of defiance and solidarity! Way I see it, gloom and doom is almost treachery, ever since the election, well it always is really, but ever so much more so now, we are in a surge-of-power phase now. Look they've just given us free kicks in goals and we've scored, believe it, we're not far behind and we are sitting in the sweet spot - their yobbo captain is blown, the others never had nothing in the first place!

We are in AFL terms just 8 minutes into the third quarter. This is where the grunt and the stamina comes in, and where Labor must win. Is winning, and will win. Can't you feel it?

People listening to sense at last. Abbortt finally recognised as a threat not a joke. He has done his dash, and he is seen to be hollow and negative. Labor is gradually becoming seen seen as heroes for managing the economy so brilliantly. And they haven't gone into Attack mode - not quite - yet. Wait for it.

It's all in place now, now it comes on scoring and getting Australians at last to take the future of the country responsibly.
That has all to happen before Crispmess - because from the first sitting of Parliament next year it's the Fourth Quarter, and then it really will be on. Yee - Hah!

Dam, Be Of Good Cheer Gravel, for Dog's sake! It's gonna be great, and we're gonna wipe the floor with this dangerous dopey den of drongoes,
Don't You Worry About That! Smile

or DYWAT, as we like to say.  

TalkTurkey

June 7. 2012 05:43 PM

2353

NormanK, how many "good stats" does the media need to call LOTO out on this bull****?

2353

June 7. 2012 05:45 PM

Patriciawa

Lady in Red said, And people have the cheek to say that Julia's voice grates on them.

I don't think it's her voice, it's her accent.  The people who complain about it just don't understand that hers is an authentic Aussie voice.  In world forums where people have dozens of different languages and regional accents when they do speak English, I'd think it would pass unnoticed. Or if it is remarked upon it would be becauuse it's distinctively Australian.  She's a considerable public speaker and there's nothing wrong at all with her syntax or style.  

This morning over at PB there was a discussion about Jimmy Barnes and Working Class man.  I watched the Olympics 2000 video clip of that at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oee-N__vkuQ   I felt again tremendously proud to be Australian but also to be of working class origins from the UK, just like Jimmy Barnes and our PM.  We all arrived here as ten pound poms in the sixties; they as littlies and me as a young married woman with children their age.  I was reminded again of myself of long ago, a working class girl who will never be anything but a Labor voter.

I realized too the one thing that made me particularly drawn to Julia Gillard, aside from her proven abilities and leadership qualities. Unlike myself, the Pommie 11 plus scholarship child of the forties, she has stayed true to her roots and still talks the way she ever did growing up in a working class neighbourhood and going to Unley High. She still identifies with and meets childhood friends from there. In my day I learned fast to talk ‘posh’ and didn’t understand how much that would set me apart from neighbouring kids, friends and even family.

So, yes! I love that voice.  She’s a working class Aussie gal! And rightly proud of it.

All that's inspired me to write a pome, and I've had a great time this arvo reading all about our PM's early life at www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2006/s1585300.htm

Patriciawa

June 7. 2012 05:48 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Just a couple of Twitterati for you:-

Greg Jericho‏
dog ate homework RT @Simon_Cullen: Tony Abbott says he hasn't read the newspapers today, and therefore can't comment on the AWB story

Stephen Koukoulas‏@TheKouk
Just re-read Abbott's Budget reply. At the time is was pretty lame; now it's embarrassing

TAWNBPM‏@TAWNBPM
The Libs still in the doldrums today, notwithstanding the good economic news. Poor old Joe Hockey, facing the

The Libs still in the doldrums today, notwithstanding the good economic news.

Poor old Joe Hockey, facing the press again. Looking totally crestfallen. He is taking the line of "how much better it could be" and "how many more people could get jobs".

He then puts on the DOOM facial expression, to outline the upcoming catastrophe of the carbon price. Quite a performance.

Meanwhile Abbott is in another corner, bleating about the appalling state of affairs in childcare (with the PM meeting stakeholders in the childcare sector today). Tony everywhere, as always....and with no alternative policy in sight.

Rabid Dog ‏@RabidDogAbbott
Do we need reminder of what Joe said? “The numbers are the numbers.. I totally accept that the numbers are the numbers”
www.businessspectator.com.au/.../Joe-Hockey-Wayne-Swan-GDP-unemployment-Tony-Abbott-pd20120607-V26DK

Bushfire Bill
Posted Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 8:26 am |
Economists make their money by predicting the future for their clients. when they get it wrong their clients lose money. Millions would have been lost on exchange rate bets yesterday, as their rise by 1c would indicate that an adjustment to the exchange rate was clearly not factored in.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1291493

Luke‏@lukedez
"We're talking about one of the biggest frauds in Australia's history." www.theage.com.au/.../...-away-20120606-1zwqk.html #AWB

Not Rupert Murdoch‏@RupertMurdochPR
Howard government chief fixer @TonyAbbottMHR hilariously pretending he hasn't read this Saddam Kickbacks story yet www.abc.net.au/.../4057146

Adrian B‏@Volvo_of_doom
More bad news for Tony Abbott, joe Hockey ad the mofo's at Newslimited Surprise boost of full-time jobs www.smh.com.au/.../...ime-jobs-20120607-1zxnw.html via @smh

vexnews‏@vexnews
NSW Lib MP blames Tony Abbott for stirring up gay hate #auspol #nswpol http://bit.ly/MfHPzq

TheFinnigans
Tony Abbott says he cant comment on AWB because he hasnt read the Newspapers. Shorter: Peta Credlin hasnt told me what to say #auspol

Tads‏@Tadlette
Brian_R_Allen Honorable Abbott, enlightened visionary and thinker www.smh.com.au/.../1089694611874.html @eddietqld @sem4peter #auspol

Askgerbil Now‏@Askgerbil
bennpackham Hockey, Abbott completely misconstrue energy policy. Think carbon tax is an attack on coal industry! blog.gerbilnow.com/.../transition-from-coal.html

Lyn

June 7. 2012 05:52 PM

Psyclaw

TT

Don't You Worry About That!

TT what are you trying to do ..... give us all a heart attack!!!!!!  As you well know the very sniff of that phrase  (which of course belongs to a certain premier of a certain state who ruled for many years with about 20-30% of the popular vote) raises the blood pressure of unsuspecting "aged" readers enormously .... such bad memories for anyone prone to even a vague belief in democracy.

What a blight on the history of our nation was that pumpkin scone eating rogue and his mates.

Glordindel

I will be accurate if you will cease the hyperbowl!

(1) The NSW matter was quite different. They had hatched and despatched about 4 premiers in quick succession, they had ruled for almost 2 decades, they were as good as out 4 years before they were finally shafted except that the coalition had an unelectable drone (also a lover of budgie smugglers) as their leader. And they had been particularly bad policy wise for at least two terms.
No comparison between them and our JG government.

(2) The current NSW premier, his vacillating and  the list of broken promises already will advantage JG, especially if he doesn't arrest his downhill run shortly.

(3) Likewise Bailleau and maybe Newman will also advantage JG.

(4) Newman, O'Farrell and Bailleau all had the character and an ability to develop policies and argue them to the electorate. Abbott is in a class of his own in stark contrast...... the very bottom class. His lies, inconsistencies and the grandiose promises so far (eg repeal the carbon scheme and draw back the compensation) will have to be argued in the election campaign. This will assist JG.

(5) We won't be all rooned after 1 July ..... this will be another hurdle for him to explain.

(6) Abbott is a pug, an ideologue. This is unlike any other political leader  in Australia. Had he been otherwise, i.e. a reasonable person, he would have won hands down in August 2010 when the ALP ran it's worst ever campaign. The coalition lost because of him. They'll lose again for the same reason.

Psyclaw

June 7. 2012 06:04 PM

Pikiranku

I've just been catching up on all your posts and links - and TT I absolutely agree with your early morning post about Julia Gillard.  I was watching a news bulletin recently on which Hillary Clinton was speaking. I know you shouldn't make derogatory comments about anyone's appearance but she just looked so bedraggled that I couldn't help thinking how lucky she is not to be the PM of Australia.  If she were, the press  and the two-bit celebrities over here would crucify her. And it also led me to thinking how lucky we are to have such a wonderfully-presented leader to represent us.  Our Julia just always looks fantastic - no matter how hectic her schedule she's always perfectly groomed and yet without that plastered, rigid look that Thatcher had.  I think she's a brilliant leader, a great role model and a delight to behold.

Pikiranku

June 7. 2012 07:08 PM

Patriciawa

Hear!  Hear! and Here! Here!

I've typed that both ways, Pikiranku, because if I've got it wrong Talk Turkey will be be after me.

What a lovely name, Pikiranku,
Does it rhyme with Thank You?

I'm not being facetious there. I'd really like to thank you! I've often been tempted when writing about the Prime Minister and her many fine attributes to mention her personal appearance but I've refrained because of the p.c. thing about a woman's looks being supposedly irrelevant to her capacity to perform any particular job.

But you've nailed it here.  She does represent us overseas and at home too on ceremonial occasions.  It's great that's she's well groomed, speaks so well in public and always looks her very best in a very natural way.  That so many of us find her beautiful too is a plus. She's not overly interested in dress or fashion either(unlike our Governor General)as one can tell from how often we see her wearing the same outfits.

  

Patriciawa

June 7. 2012 07:53 PM

2353

It was a pretty good day really - close enough to full employment (according to the economists) and it looks like the AWB Scandal is going to be revived.

The good thing about the AWB Scandal is that LOTO as a Cabinet Minister when the events occurred was part of any decision process that too place - and there are a number of former Howard Ministers that were happy for it to go away.  It's got plenty of milage yet - the ALP needs to work out fast how to get on the front foot by asking the AFP to please explain and linking it to the former Commissioner.

2353

June 7. 2012 08:41 PM

Pikiranku

Yes, Patriciawa, Pikiranku does rhyme with thank you! It's Indonesian, means My Thoughts, My Opinion - I taught Indonesian in my past life and even though I haven't been there or used the language for ages it's still an important and cherished part of me.

Pikiranku

June 7. 2012 08:41 PM

BSA Bob

Pleased to see generally balanced coverage of the employment figures with the news of more jobs actually being created. Not just shrieking the percentage increase in the figures. I bet that 'aint in Plan A. Not a good couple of days for Tony. But I'm sure the Telegraph's on the case even now.

BSA Bob

June 8. 2012 12:48 AM

jane

glorfindel @1.51pm, I give you the Howard government, 2001. Howard was gone for all money halfway through the election cycle and went on to win.

Halfway through this election cycle and Liealot and his orcs are starting to look pretty tattered around the edges. They keep telling everyone we're rooned and the economy and other indicators just won't do as Liealot tells them.

And the chief whipping boy is looking less like an ace in the hole and more like a Godwin Grech tied around their necks, what with their whistle blower looking even dodgier than usual.

TT, I loved your tribute to bloodnuts. Excellent people with heads of flame and hearts of gold.

I must leave this forum, now. My computer is unwell and I'm in the frosty office freezing my backside off typing this. Never let anyone tell you that living by the sea is more temperate temperature wise!

I shall return when my miscreant computer has been released from hospital.

jane

June 8. 2012 07:24 AM

Lyn

TODAY’S LINKS

On drugs, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless
Led by Tony Abbott, the Coalition have trashed bipartisanship. The changes to the Liberal Party that forced Peter Baume into retirement have continued to the point where a latter-day Baume would flee from his first branch meeting, and would have no hope in a preselection. There is no way that the Coalition
andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/on-drugs.html

Thomson 9: You are now entering Jacksonville, Independent Australia
After two disastrous days in the Federal Court and the categorical retraction by the prostitute put forward by A Current Affair as having slept with Craig Thomson, Peter Wicks says Kathy Jackson’s stories appear to be unravelling at a rather rapid rate.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

Another whistleblower comes forward against HSU crook Kathy Jackson, Vex News
We alleged that this payment was in fact a payment for the purchase of a shiny sports-car, some say a sparkling white Mercedes Benz convertible. Kathy’s hubby Jeff also had a red MG in his collection, the car with which we were familiar. It’s a bit hard to keep track of their luxury car fleet, it seems.
www.vexnews.com/.../

Dazed And Confused, Peter Wicks, Wixxy’s Leaks
It is not often Tony Abbott has words so strong for a woman, so you would assume he is talking about the Queen, or Mother Theresa perhaps. You would be wrong. These are the words he had to say in Parliament House about Kathy Jackson, the so called HSU “Whistle Blower”.
wixxy.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/dazed-and-confused/

Prostitute's TV tug-of-war inspires MP regulation threats, Matthew Knott, The Power Index
"ACMA has been a toothless tiger since it was established. The Press Council is hopeless. We need a body with teeth that can bring dodgy media outlets to heel. If you’re going to do a story that could destroy lives, livelihoods or bring a government down and it’s wrong, you need to be severely dealt with."
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../201206071437

Joe “Numbers are Numbers” Hockey – The Scariest Thing in Australia, Matt Cowgill, Insert Clever Title Here
What is Joe “Numbers are Numbers” Hockey’s response, well apart from proving he is a Numberwang world champion opposition Treasurer…“The scariest thing in Australia is Wayne Swan” Of course we have killer sting rays, heat, deserts, bushfires, east coast lows, cyclones as well not mention DROP BEARS and Yowies. Not to mention Brave Sir Abbott running away from Thomson, who is obviously the scariest for Abbott as well.
www.wolfcat.com.au/.../

GDP growth booms & crashes-  Jobs Surge, Stephen Koukoulas, Maket Economics
These were an extraordinary set of national accounts and labour force data.BOOM! In real terms, GDP grew by 1.3% in the March quarter for an annual increase of 4.3%.

CRASH! In nominal terms, GDP rose a paltry 0.3% in the March quarter after a 0.3% rise in the December quarter meaning annualized growth over that period of about 1.25%.
http://www.marketeconomics.com.au/blog

Mmmm. Martin DiStasio with that chilling report, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison
It’s a squabble over one of the almost 23 million Australians who have never slept with Craig Thomson.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

The numbers are the numbers: Joe versus the economy, Bernard Keane, Crikey
Or he could have run the line offered by a desperate Daily Telegraph today, pretending the restructuring going on in the retail sector is reflective of a “real” economy that is weak. But instead he appeared shellshocked, repeating “extraordinary” eight times. “The numbers are the numbers” he said at one point. “I totally accept that the numbers are the numbers.”
www.crikey.com.au/.../

News Limited scrubbing their website of Craig Thomson stories, Turn Left 2013
Not only did they raise the scandal to their top story, but they buried the stunningly good economic news that came out yesterday, that only reinforces Wayne ‘Triple A’ Swan’s handling of our economy, to the end of the column, and portrays it negatively ‘More rate joy fades as economy revs up‘
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

Gillard Bombs Defence Spending, Ben Eltham, New Matilda
Australia’s defence force is also big enough to engage in foreign expeditions in support of out major ally, the United States; indeed, the Army has been continuously engaged in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001. And, given that Australia’s economy continues to grow strongly, there is every likelihood that even by maintaining defence spending at current levels, we will maintain
newmatilda.com/2012/06/07/bombs-defence-spending

What’s your Abbott Strategy, Alex White
Tony Abbott is an anti-union crusader. His time as industrial relations minister under Howard was tempered only by the fact that they did not control the Senate. Expect the rights and protections in the Fair Work Act to be wiped away and replaced with harsh restrictions. Although every union will targeted, public sector unions in particular will be viciously attacked.
alexwhite.org/2012/06/whats-your-abbott-strategy/

Why fibre is key to Australia's need for speed, Gary McLaren, NBN Co
Internet protocol traffic is forecast to grow from 97 petabytes a month in 2011 to 708 petabytes a month in 2016, according to the Cisco Visual Networking Index Forecast (2011-2016).Within just four years, Cisco expects the gigabyte equivalent of every movie ever made to cross the global internet every three minutes.
nbnco.com.au/.../...australias-need-for-speed.html

The cloud computing forecast is increasingly hybrid, Delimeter
At first, as with any new technology, it appeared that there were hard and fast rules about how the technology should be used. Some sections of the industry were adamant that the public cloud model was the only way forward for cloud computing in general. At the same time, others maintained that private cloud was the more realistic way
delimiter.com.au/.../

Getting Under Their Skin, Frank Bongiorno , Inside Story
If you imagined that Andrew Bolt’s notorious Herald Sun articles in 2009 attacking “white” Aboriginals appeared out of nowhere, you might have been inclined to accept Bernard Keane’s argument in Crikey that “Bolt deserves the support of free speech advocates, regardless of how much they may disagree with his bilious outpourings.” But Bolt’s “bilious outpourings”
http://inside.org.au/getting-under-their-skin/

Posts from the ‘Daily Fix’ Category
australianpoliticstv.org/category/daily-fix/

TODAY’S FRONT PAGES
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 8 June 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Lyn

June 8. 2012 07:30 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad

Stephen Koukoulas is missing his link, now how did that happen I will never know.

Here it is Ad
www.marketeconomics.com.au/2071-gdp-growth-booms-crashes-jobs-surge

Lyn

June 8. 2012 07:30 AM

TalkTurkey

Good morning Swordsfolks especially Lyn

Cold in Adelaide

Worse in Canberra!

It'll warm up soon when Parliament resumes!

TalkTurkey

June 8. 2012 07:31 AM

2353

Jane - good example, also in support of the argument
- Keating was gone 6 weeks prior to the election in 1993 (remember the "sweetest victory of all"?),
- Beattie would have been chucked out a few times between the "real" elections in Queensland
- Bligh was never supposed to win three years ago (Beattie was on the nose).

2353

June 8. 2012 08:16 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

June 8. 2012 08:38 AM

TalkTurkey

Glorfindel said

@  Psyclaw,

Thank you for the response, it's nice that somebody has finally put a bit of effort into a reply.

Golden-hair for you I will break my own general rule of not responding to trollies just to say:

YOU CAN'T HANDLE A REPLY!

All you come here for (except for your little ersatz wronged plaintive whinge this time) is to sneer and jeer, why would any goodwillian waste a second response to you?

If you were to exhibit goodwill you would get many and pleasant rejoinders. I do, though I don't mince my words ever. I say what I feel and think, sometimes I make a hard comment but never with ill-will and always sincerely. I defend my own integrity ferociously though. Do you likewise all this paragraph, you will not again be making your little mee-ow poor me cry as above.

We all enjoy compliments and acknowledgment, everybody needs encouragement, just be nice.  

Socialists, humanists from the heart, are very welcome here. The rest can please themselves, but don't expect circlejerking for nastiness. If you want considered replies instead of retorts try a little politesse.

Thoughtful Swordsfolks I'm sure would love to argue civilly with equally respectful voices of the Right if ever such were to be heard with some half-way-sensible policies and points. But the Right doesn't do that eh. They are almost invariably like the evil devious nasty scurrying villains in gaslight melodramas, (. . . SSSSSSSSS! . . . ) And somehow enough dumb people are always sucked in to their not-very-clever but devotedly self-serving agendas that it makes every issue a matter of disputation and decent outcomes ever-so-much-more-effortful than they out to be. Unless big money is involved of course, or a Government bent on going to war, then argument doesn't help. And when did the Left ever have big money?  

Glorfindel your poor-petal petulant plaint above is supposed to be a complaint about the social climate of this site, well look in the mirror instead. The people here by-and-large are thoughtful polite kind helpful and well-informed, welcoming and respectful and communicative. But there are exceptions.

Pick your own path.  

      

TalkTurkey

June 8. 2012 08:41 AM

Psyclaw

I'm not sure of what M Grattan has said throughout the Thomson / Slipper matters, but given her usual stance I assume she was all for shafting them. I will stand to be corrected on this.

Hence, when in her Fran Kelly segment today she three times called for Captain Emad to be given due process I was surprised and the thought crossed my mind that she probably didn't support Thomson / Slipper in this way.

In defending why Emad was knowingly let depart by the AFP and not even brought in for questioning she said that "the rule of law must prevail" and "due process blah blah blah" and "it's important that we uphold the rule of law". Three times in 60 seconds she asserted this.

Note that this was her reason for him not even being questioned.

I'm glad at least one of the Canberra gallery supports the rule of law and due process, if only for organisers and profiteers of people smuggling and if only to protect them from being merely questioned. That must be a start.

I note that Captain Emad was not red haired nor was he dressed in a skirt.

Psyclaw

June 8. 2012 08:57 AM

Glorfindel

Hey Jane,

I'll give you that 2001 Howard was in terrible shape. Implementation of the GST was causing as much if not more political pain than actually passing the legislation. (Which could be an interesting forerunner for the carbon tax). One Nation was still a force causing him all kinds of problems on the right. Plus a global economic downturn at about the same time the GST came into effect.

Kim Beazley must have been measuring curtains for the Lodge.

Then we had the Tampa in August, then September 11 then he romped home in November.

And I think it would take events of the magnitude of the Tampa and S11 to fall in Gillard's favour for things to change for her.

And that's extremely unlikely.  

But yep amazing luck would be her best hope at this stage.

Glorfindel

June 8. 2012 09:11 AM

Glorfindel

@ Talk Turkey,

Wadda know my last limerick was prophetic.

Generally my interaction with this blog has been a) state and opinion and then b) receive some half baked swipe (often in the form of terrible poetry).

So it was nice to actually have somebody think that I was wrong and put some thought into a reply. It was a pleasant change.

-- We all enjoy compliments and acknowledgment, everybody needs encouragement, just be nice. --

So does that advice apply to yourself as well? Or are terms like "whiping boy" or "troll" your attempt at being nice ?

-- Socialists, humanists from the heart, are very welcome here. --

Awww you've voted yourself the TPS doorman, good for you. Print yourself out a nice badge and wear it with pride.

I'm not sure where you're going with the conspiracy theories about the right or how on earth they apply to this conversation.

Let's face it my only sin on this blog is to point out the clay feet of the Julia idol others want to bow down too.

You don't like what I'm saying fine then pull it apart show me where I'm wrong. That would be great.

Otherwise just cry me a river then build a bridge and get over it princess.

Glorfindel

June 8. 2012 09:22 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad

Sorry I have done another "Don't know how it happened" Matt Cowgill is on the wrong link

Should be Wolfecat:

Joe “Numbers are Numbers” Hockey – The Scariest Thing in Australia, Wolfecat, Insert Clever Title Here

www.wolfcat.com.au/.../

SmileSmile

Lyn

June 8. 2012 09:26 AM

42 long

  All Gillard needs is ordinary luck and time and the truth to come out. Isn't it amazing how so many people who Tony regards  so highly, have "feet of clay". One would really have to question his abilities when judging character.
  Howard relied on the truth being suppressed with the "children overboard". That's not luck, it's scary!. (and still happening.)

42 long

June 8. 2012 09:36 AM

TalkTurkey

Lyn
Dam you still beat me this morning! Check the times!
But btw when it says 7.30 on this blog it's actually 7.00 here. Unless they #*** with the clocks. As they do.

Jane said
TT, I loved your tribute to bloodnuts. Excellent people with heads of flame and hearts of gold.

Well . . . then there's like Polly Pantsdown . . . and Merdeoch's sheila (well her hair was indeed som'pin eh, that's her best bit though.)

Redheads are ordinary people on the inside but for better or worse marked on the outside. It does impinge. I once read that in a study in the US, redheads top the list in 5 important markers for stress with no other critical external factors. Alcoholism, domestic violence, imprisonment, institutionalised mental illness, and most starkly, suicide. Higher than for Hispanics Negroes or Indigenes; I can't vouch for that nor provide refs, I just remember reading it and it sounded authoritative. I must say I was impressed!

But then there's great beauties like Deborah Kerr and Nicole Kidman, and there's good looking blokes like David Wenham, oh but then there's Ling ( Smile one of the most terrifying sights that could ever come at you on a footy field . . . and I have no doubt that their careers were helped, if not even critically influenced by, being so conspicuous.

Annual Redhead Day in Holland, I bet it feels fantastic to be there!
Blokes not so much to look at, but Ohhh the women! Smile

Many sites but here's one.

Another Redhead Day in September 2012.

http://www.squidoo.com/redhead-day

And a quote from the bloke who started it all

Redheads Book

Never before has the distinctiveness and the appeal of redheads been presented with such warmth, wit, and skill as in the compelling large-format portraits by this redheaded photographer.

According to the photographer, "My hair color played an important role in my search for self, subconsciously at least, for there's a lot one tends to suppress or ignore. I used to hate my red hair. It was perplexing, made me feel insecure. And then I started to like it. Blonde hair? Straight hair? No thanks! I'm just the way I am. Red hair is a state of mind. Full of contradictions, maybe, but good."

Jane
Dog grant your Computer a speedy and complete recovery . . .

TalkTurkey

June 8. 2012 10:07 AM

TalkTurkey

"If you're beautiful in the inside you're beautiful for ever"
the model-grooming woman tells her lovelies as I write,
and I believe it.

*J*U*L*I*A* will still be lovely at 80 if she lives so long.
It's in her smile.

TalkTurkey

June 8. 2012 10:15 AM

Psyclaw

Glorfindel

You say that another Tampa is unlikely.

I think it's very likely. Abbott flies by the seat of his pants every single day.

He has built a house of cards for himself (roll back NBN, roll back carbon scheme, roll back MRRT, excessively unfundable paid parent leave, draw back the carbon compensation to families, draw back the carbon compensation to business, $70 billion black hole, roonation come 1 July, the Slipper matter, the Thomson matter, Hockey and Robb as his financiers,  an absolutely hopeless front bench ["I'm proud to have 16 members from the Howard ministry" ha! ha!].

Time prevents me from detailing the many other cards in his precarious house. But I should mention two more.

The first is exemplified in his inability to keep politics out of ceremonial occasions ie his crassness. This is  one of his most wobbly cards otherwise known as foot in mouth. That is why he assiduously avoids analytical interviews.

The second is his blind support by the MSM. There is always a slight but ever present risk of them abandoning him, and my oh my, will the emperor look naked then ........ when the press removes the smoke and mirrors he will be seen to be without even budgie smugglers.

His self wedge house of cards can crumble anytime. And when it does he simply does not have the strategies to fix up such downfalls, except as we have seen, to absent himself from the press. And that's not a good trick when publicity is needed for an election.

Any one of these could be his "Tampa" downfall. In no way is it a longshot that he will seriously shoot himself in his foot in the next 17 months.

Swordsters will then be sitting back and passing the popcorn.

Psyclaw

June 8. 2012 10:46 AM

Glorfindel

Hey Psyclaw,

My point with both NSW and Qld is that voting intentions can remain "set" for a considerable period of time, and just because there is a significant amount of time between now and the next election is irrelevant.

The problem I have with your assessment of the situation is that if it's correct then there is no way the conservatives under Abbott should be in the lead now.

It's a bit like the economist who finds something that works in practice saying "ahh but will it work in theory"

Or that ol chestnut of pointing out bumble bees can't fly according to theory.  

Abbott has been opposition leader for about two and a half years now, and he was a well known public figure before that. Plenty of time for the voting public to have worked out his flaws. Yet he'd win an election right now.

I don't know if the conservative premiers will help or hinder Gillard. My memory (and it could well be wrong) was that the premiers didn't mount an on-going campaign against the GST once it was passed as I recall they just gleefully took the extra money.

Whereas I think they will have an on-going campaign against the carbon tax at every opportunity. Electricity prices up - that's the carbon tax, unemployment up - nothing to do with sacking thousands of public servants it's the carbon tax. We can't keep our promise on X - carbon tax, etc, etc.

Be interesting to see how it plays out. Certainly some of the premiers might be a bit on the nose with the electorate by then but will they reek as much as Gillard does??

The thing with the Tampa was that it was an external event out of the control (cue conspiracy theories) of the major parties.

That's the problem for Gillard it's hard to organise another Tampa.

As to Abbott - I expected that the wheels would fall of his campaign when he made his "don't believe what I say unless it's written down" confession. But he kept chugging on.

For two and a half years I've been expecting the voting public to wake up, yet here we are.

There's a joke about two hikers in the woods when one of them hears a growl and says to the other "that's a hungry bear" and then takes off his hiking boots and starts to put running shoes on. His mate watches and says "you don't think you can out-run a hungry bear with those shoes do you?" the first hiker replies "not at all, but I can out-run you"

As it currently stands Abbott doesn't have to be the best political leader on earth, or even a half decent one. He just needs to be better than Gillard.

His minders I think have a little skill as well. Take the health debate against Rudd where Abbott was soundly thrashed and his short-comings exposed. That was the last time he participated in that format, in the election campaign we had the town hall debates and very staged managed press conferences. Both of which suit his strengths and weaknesses.
(Although he might have been favoured with Gillard as his opponent rather than Rudd.)

What might trip him up is explaining how he will roll back the carbon tax. That will require some detail and he may well struggle.

But a lot will depend on the circumstances of the next election. Will Labor be able to put enough pressure on Abbott that he needs to explain his position in detail or will they be desperately trying to "save the furniture".

Unless something changes it will be the latter.

PS You're not a bad hand at hyperbole yourself. Goes with the territory I guess. Smile

Glorfindel

June 8. 2012 10:56 AM

jane

Thanks, TT.

Boadicea was a bloodnut, too, I believe. Also Spencer Tracy, James Stewart and the delightful Katherine Hepburn. And my mother and great grandfather.

And just as a matter of interest, Scotland (the land of one of my forbears) has the highest percentage of bloodnuts in the world.

I think we bloodnuts get so stressed because, as you say, the envious blenders are jealous of us. We stand out in a crowd by the mere fact of our magnificent tresses.

I have once again tottered out to the office to pound away on the office keyboard, but it's a very respectable 14C. Positively tropical. So the tootsies and nether regions feel no pain.

glorfindel @8.57am, that's my point. No doubt Liealot has already booked the removalist's van, but fate often dishes out some very nasty surprises.

I can only refer you and Liealot to the adages about crossing bridges before you install the GPS and buying enormous numbers of egg cartons, when a family of foxes has moved in to the neighbourhood.

jane

June 8. 2012 10:59 AM

Glorfindel

Hey again Psyclaw,

I would whole-heartedly 1000% agree that Gillards only chance is for another "Tampa" to occur or Abbott to stuff things up.

It's clearly beyond any ability she herself has. The "hail Mary play" is kinda all that's left. If I was a religious man I'd be praying about now.

Glorfindel

June 8. 2012 11:14 AM

Psyclaw

Glorfindel

The problem I have with your assessment of the situation is that if it's correct then there is no way the conservatives under Abbott should be in the lead now.


I guess I need to be a bit more explicit!

Abbott is where he is in the polls now for two reasons, neither of which require talent or ethics.

(1) He gets absolutely no MSM scrutiny or criticism and gets a free advert each day for his daily dress-up "today i'm a cabinet maker....yesterday I was a truck driver" frolics.

(2) At no stage since August 2010 has he "put up" or had to "put up". Any fool can go around identifying real problems or making up fantasy problems. The real test is in developing and implementing solutions. From this he runs a million miles ie "run rabbitt run rabbitt run run run!"

It is so easy to win over gullibles by handing out free fairy floss ..... not so easy though by telling them truths, some of which may be unplatable.

Psyclaw

June 8. 2012 12:55 PM

Lyn

Hi Talk Turkey

Are you having a fun time you always sound so happy and enthusiastic.

This is funny:
"Dam you still beat me this morning! Check the times"

TT I enjoyed your post about redheads

(Redheads are ordinary people on the inside)

SmileSmile

Lyn

June 8. 2012 01:01 PM

Glorfindel

Hey Jane

-- but fate often dishes out some very nasty surprises --

The problem is there aren't any foxes in Abbott's neighborhood right now, just the three stooges.

Reliance on fate isn't much of a strategy. The battle goes not always to the strongest or the race to the swiftest but that is always the way to bet.

I'd sleep much more soundly if I was sure that Abbott wasn't getting into the Lodge thanks.

But again I'd agree that the way things are looking fate is the only chance. Let's all wish upon a star - it makes much more sense than relying on Gillard.

Hey Psyclaw

So which of those points will change between now and the next election?

1. I think the MSN likes Abbott - he's a former press secretary who's been around in Canberra a heck of a long time. I'd be surprised if he hasn't established good working relationships with the journos there.

2. If he's got away with lack of detail over the last 2.5 years what will change in the next 1.5? Except perhaps a change of leader. Remember the health debate where Rudd took him apart because he lacked those details.  

It was beyond Gillards ability to nail him to the detail last election why will the next one be different? Hopefully the carbon tax roll-back will prove the one issue he finally gets tripped up on. Hopefully.

It would be very nice to have something other than hope at this stage.

Glorfindel

June 8. 2012 01:02 PM

Cuppa

Psyclaw,

Abbott is where he is in the polls now for two reasons, neither of which require talent or ethics.

I'd go futher, and aver that if the scale of Abbott's success were to have been proportionate to his talent and ethics - he wouldn't have risen beyond being an obscure local MP.

Abbott is the ultimate political welfare case, wholly and completely dependent on a media landscape that's among the most one-sided of any democracy on the planet.

Cuppa

June 8. 2012 02:01 PM

Patriciawa

Hi Lyn, jane and TT, re redheads, blood nuts or rangas.


Our ranga PM is known to have been
In former life the Tudor 'Virgin Queen!'
Blood nuts both, with ancestries in Wales
In common with that warrior female,
Another red head Celt, Boadicea!
Two great spirits, reincarnate, in our Julia!
Wise, strong women from the climes of Borealis
Enthroned again down here in Terra Australis!

Patriciawa

June 8. 2012 02:12 PM

Glorfindel

Hey 2353
- Keating was gone 6 weeks prior to the election in 1993 (remember the "sweetest victory of all"?),

Yep and remember Hewson and the birthday cake fiasco. Hewson also had his campaign hampered by running with an unpopular tax - there's an omen for the future.  

- Beattie would have been chucked out a few times between the "real" elections in Queensland

Well he was really behind in Feb 06 at the height of the “Dr Death” scandal. Then later that year the Libs changed leaders – what kind of idiots make a leadership change just before an election. And during the campaign Dr Flegg repeatedly shot himself in the foot, Gillard style. Good times. I remember handing out on election day and getting a really positive buzz. Nice when that happens.

- Bligh was never supposed to win three years ago (Beattie was on the nose).

Yeah Anna ran a great campaign and turned a 51 – 49 deficit around. Well maybe, the final result was within the margin of error of the polling.

So what exactly is your argument that a good campaign can turn around a very small deficit in the polls but to make real in-roads you need the opposition to implode.

Let’s hope the opposition implodes then. ‘Cause it’s more than a very small deficit to turn around and a good campaign might be beyond current abilities.

Glorfindel

June 8. 2012 02:13 PM

Wake Up

Apparently Kathy Jackson has asks the judge to quit and sacked her lawyers:
www.smh.com.au/.../...-to-quit-20120608-200oq.html

Wake Up

June 8. 2012 02:14 PM

Psyclaw


Glorfindel


Hey Psyclaw

So which of those points will change between now and the next election?


Any one of the cards in my 10.15 am post could fall and bring the whole house down.

Life is all about probabilities ..... I only cross the road when I think it;s improbable a bus will hit me.

I am focussed on probabilities and not just bare hope, and the probability of at least one of the cards I listed falling is pretty high IMHO.

Hope is about wishing Hadley or Jones would suddenly become JG supporters. I don't bother about this because it is of extremely low probability.

But that Abbott will eventually have to discuss his policies is very probable and that he will stuff up is also a fair chance. This he has not been required to do since August 2010, but come heaven or high water he'll have to front up to this sometime before the next election.

Then it will be popcorn time.

Psyclaw

June 8. 2012 02:41 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad

Twitterverse and Twitterati all in one:

Lisa Davies

HSU Nat Sec Kathy Jackson has sacked her lawyers on last day of hearings into whether union should be placed administration

Kathy Jackson sacks lawyers, asks judge to quit ,

two hours, Ms Jackson sacked her lawyers, appointed a new one who then said he was unavailable, and made a string of adverse allegations about the conduct of the case so far, including the rejection of any need for an administrator until she had been heard in full
www.smh.com.au/.../...-to-quit-20120608-200oq.html

Andrew Watson‏@Andy_Downunda
@vexnews She sacked her Lawyers who were working for her pro bono? I seriously believe Kathy Jackson has lost the plot, BIG TIME! #auspol

TheFinnigans
The bizarre behaviour of Kathy Jackson makes #Thomson looks like a nun

Z☰N Digital ‏@z3n_digital
Kathy Jackson screaming just like i predicted only a matter of time now till she gives up the setup , libs and who was involved#auspol

TheFinnigans
OMG. Kathy Jackson has sacked her lawyers, the Judge, the cleaners and installed herself as the Judge, Jury, Prosecutor and Hangman

ABC News‏@abcnews
Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey says there should be a debate about increasing the retirement age to 70 http://bit.ly/K311l8

Luke Mansillo‏@mansillo
IN SPITE of all Tony Abbott's attempts to talk down our economy and to rubbish the Gillard government, we hear
IN SPITE of all Tony Abbott's attempts to talk down our economy and to rubbish the Gillard government, we hear the great news that our economy has grown by a surprising amount. We've also had another interest rate cut. We now have those three critical economic indicators (interest rates, inflation and unemployment) all below 5.1 per cent. And let's not forget that this has been achieved in the aftermath of the GFC and under the cloud of the European economic crisis. Mr Abbott's persistent negativity is having the effect of wrongly creating a sense of doom in our community, which in turn threatens confidence, spending and investment. Remember the wartime slogan ''Loose lips sink ships''? It is about time somebody told Mr Abbott that his stance is just about as traitorous.

A letter in today's Age www.theage.com.au/.../...ation-20120607-1zys4.html

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Govt Whip Joel Fitzgibbon 'competition between 2 [TV] stations' led to 'reckless disregard' http://latika.me/K2oBhR #thomson cc @tom_watson

I Do - Turn Left‏@turnleft2013
Paul Barry, journalist, speaks on Media Ownership and Diversity turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

walabytrack‏@walabytrack
Thomson accepts ex-prostitute's TV apology | http://smh.com.au - m.smh.com.au/.../...tv-apology-20120607-1zz2i.html

TAWNBPM‏@TAWNBPM
This is just WHACKY. "In a speech in Melbourne today on social inclusion, Mr Abbott justified the need for his... http://fb.me/1vbTjkz90

John Pratt‏@Jackthelad1947
10,000 teachers see red, and vow to do it all again. Liberals never keep a promise! http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/-1zyyh.html

The Daily Telegraph‏@dailytelegraph
Abbott to promise $10m for indigenous jobs http://bit.ly/LFTJ3O

Not Rupert Murdoch‏@RupertMurdochPR
Australia's biggest corruption scandal unfolded during PM John Howard era. No-one went to jail. Now #SaddamGate returns www.abc.net.au/.../4058622

National Times‏@NationalTimesAU
Labor finds mining mates in job ads www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120607-1zz0x.html via @NationalTimesAU

TAWNBPM‏@TAWNBPM
A rare moment of agreement (GST). But check out this sentence from Abbott: ""But I don't think there should be... http://fb.me/1oMcLINNK

George Megalogenis‏@GMegalogenis
The latest recruit in the war on whineging is the RBA's Glenn Stevens. "... Australia's glass is at least half full." www.rba.gov.au/speeches/2012/sp-gov-080612.html

Brigadier Slog‏@BrigadierSlog
Of course they do. LOL RT @PoliceAU: AFP keeps legal advice on AWB secret - @SMH_news : http://tinyurl.com/cjuznjl

Posted Friday, June 8, 2012 at 10:22 am
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1292725
A few more additions to the list of people who hate Australia, Tony Abbott, Ray Hadley, Alan Jones, Miranda Devine,Chris Mitchell
Joe Hildebrand, Franmichellegrattankelly, Chris Uhlmann, Gerry Harvey,John Symonds, Scott Morrison, George Pell
Janet Albrechtsen ,Nick Minchin, Barnaby Joyce, Opus Dei, Rummel (self-appointed), Paul Murray
Howard Sattler, Emperor Barnett, Andrew Bolt, Terry ‘The Predictor’ McCrann

Bushfire BillPosted Friday, June 8, 2012 at 8:45 am
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1292603

SmileSmile

Lyn

June 8. 2012 02:43 PM

Patriciawa

Psyclaw, aren't we already sitting back and watching Abbott's fall?  It's more a farce than comedy.   We've just seen his 'heroine,'  Kathy Jackson,sack her lawyers, the Judge, the cleaners and instal herself as the Judge, Jury, Prosecutor and Hangman to paraphrase a comment by The Finnegans over at PB.

He has been careful not to comment publicly on the the economy in the last day or so but Alan Moir has give us a pretty good picture of how he probably received them in private. You can see it in his gallery, No 1, under today's date. www.smh.com.au/.../alan-moir-20090907-fdxk.html

Patriciawa

June 8. 2012 02:56 PM

Glorfindel

Hey Psyclaw,

-- Any one of the cards in my 10.15 am post could fall and bring the whole house down. --

Yep I could win lotto too but I still keep a savings account.

-- the probability of at least one of the cards I listed falling is pretty high IMHO.--

Well you know what opinions are like, and everybody has one. Got anything more substantial?

-- But that Abbott will eventually have to discuss his policies is very probable and that he will stuff up is also a fair chance. This he has not been required to do since August 2010, but come heaven or high water he'll have to front up to this sometime before the next election. --

Ok so he's been through one election and 2.5 years of opposition leadership without having to do this so why is it a given that it will happen before the next election ? What's gonna change?

Glorfindel

June 8. 2012 03:03 PM

Tom of Melbourne

That’s just so interesting.

Kathy Jackson sacks her lawyers= Craig Thomson must have no case to answer.

Anything Jackson does, is further proof that Thomson didn’t-
•  Spend union money on prostitutes
•  Use union funds to pay for non business trips for his then wife
•  Make huge cash withdrawals from the union account
•  Publicly provide various conflicting stories to explain his actions
•  Decline to co-operate with law enforcement authorities on the grounds of self incrimination

Clearly we should withhold our judgement on Craig (an MP), because he’s only got almost 200 adverse findings against him by an independent statutory authority. But we should reflect harshly on Kathy, because she’s not an MP, and she doesn’t have any findings against her.

All leave those here to figure out the logic of the positions they advocate.

Tom of Melbourne

June 8. 2012 03:14 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thanks for the intriguing Twitterverse.  The Kathy Jackson story gets more and more bizarre.  Her behaviour today takes her further into a strange world that she alone seems to inhabit.  We certainly don't understand it.  

The commercial TV current affairs shows are being shown to be as disreputable as we have always known they are.  Perhaps the worst facet is that the originators of the story did not bother to tell Craig Thomson that the witness has recanted.  How scungy is that?

The fallout for Hockey and Abbott continues, in my view because they refuse to abandon or even tone down Plan A.  By persisting with their negativity and by continuing to talk down what is manifestly a great economy, they look more and more out of touch, even stupid.

I've fixed the Wolfecat link on your special page.

We have a houseful of family and friends for the Queens Birthday Weekend, and a power of cleaning up the property and burning off to accomplish, so you won't see much of me over the next few days

Ad astra

June 8. 2012 03:23 PM

Ad astra

Folks
What is the point of debating the forecasts and assertions that Glorfindel and ToM make about future events, to wit the election, and how the Craig Thomson affair will end?  Why don't we just wait and see?  No amount of argument one way or the other will make the slightest difference to the outcome, any more the footy tipping does.

Let's not mimic the economists who love making predictions, even if they get them wrong much of the time.  I can't understand why they too don't wait and see.

Ad astra

June 8. 2012 03:28 PM

Ad astra

Patriciawa
The Moir cartoon captures elegantly what this piece is about - Abbott and Hockey are unable, or unwilling to abandon Plan A.

www.smh.com.au/.../alan-moir-20090907-fdxk.html

Ad astra

June 8. 2012 03:30 PM

Ad astra

Wake up
I think you have not been here before, so welcome to The Political Sword family.  Do come again.

The Kathy Jackson story will make a great mystery thriller one day.

Ad astra

June 8. 2012 03:43 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Ad Astra, you might indicate where I’ve been commenting on election results or polls.

Tom of Melbourne

June 8. 2012 04:05 PM

Ad astra

No ToM, you were commenting on Kathy Jackson; Glorfindel on polls and other things.  Both of you were making predictions - no one knows the outcome no matter how much debate we might have.  So my point is - why bother - let's wait and see.

Ad astra

June 8. 2012 04:11 PM

DMW

...an objective observer coming from outside would, I think it must be said, feel that Australia’s glass is at least half full.
Yet the nature of public discussion is unrelentingly gloomy, and this has intensified over the past six months. Even before the recent turn of events in Europe and their effects on global markets, we were grimly determined to see our glass as half empty. Numerous foreign visitors to the Reserve Bank have remarked on the surprising extent of this pessimism. Each time I travel abroad I am struck by the difference between the perceptions held by foreigners about Australia and what I read in the newspapers at home.
I harbour no illusion that this can suddenly be lifted by anything I say today. But it is, hopefully, worthwhile to offer a few facts, and some perspective and analysis of the situation.

Reserve Bank Governor Glenn Stevens speaking in Adelaide today
Peter Martin has the full speech here:
www.petermartin.com.au/.../...ns-we-need-more.html

Oh dear FACTS, Perspective and Analysis.

The sad thing is that so many will not let the facts get in the way of their chosen gloomy story. There is only one perspective and that is the sort that leaves ysis off analysis.

DMW

June 8. 2012 04:22 PM

42 long

Kathy sacking her"Pro bono" lawyers who help her because they "believe in her cause". Not much gratitude shown there!! And worthy Liberal lawyers they are too. Is she running her own case now?
  What a Fiesty lady she is. The HR Nicholls society meeting will be packed out for her address/apeech/lecture.
  We DO live in interesting times. This has the potential to be bigger than Watergate. Sleep peacefully Tony. She won't lose her cool and say anything when it all hits the fan.
  Craig might get his chance in a fair court too one day. Lock the doors Lock the doors.  What a drama.

42 long

June 8. 2012 04:50 PM

NormanK

ToM

I can only assume that your comment is a cut 'n' paste from where you placed it on another site because I have seen no evidence of anyone here taking the stances that you ascribe to us.

Kathy Jackson sacks her lawyers= Craig Thomson must have no case to answer.

A full quote from this site please with appropriate attribution.

And you wonder why you don't get taken seriously.

NormanK

June 8. 2012 04:56 PM

Psyclaw

Glorfindel

You write as though the probabilities I outlined at 2.14pm today are the equivalent of Lotto probabilities. My wide reading of the media suggests that you would be the only one in Australia to think that Abbott stuffing up is a really long shot.

Obviously Peta Credlin, the organ grinder who has worked overtime to keep Abbott, the monkey, in check, would disagree with you. I'll let other readers form their opinions about this.


Your reply indicates a fairly poor knowledge of probabilities theory. Probabilities don't say that X will occur. They just reflect degrees of likelihood that it will happen.

The many issues of thin ice on which Abbott is skating today (see again my 10.15 am post today ) are very real and all are within the realms of possibly happening. It is a good probability that one of these issues will bite him. Then his house of cards will wobble badly.

You give me  a bit of a sledge re "opinions". I invite you and other to look at the points I made in (2) to (7) at 10.46 1m 7 June, and points (1) to (6) at 5.52 pm the same day.
There you and other readers can see that the basis of my dialogue with you is factual.

That you just can't see that the JG government has been qualitatively quite different to the former NSW and Queensland governments in the national interest reform policies it has had the courage to both pursue and legislate will remain one of life's little mysteries.

Similarly how you can say that Abbott can win the next election without having to propose, argue and defend a range of policies defies reality.

I think I will now take TT's advice at 8.38 am today. Enough!





Psyclaw

June 8. 2012 05:17 PM

Jason

Insiders panel Sunday June 10 is @GMegalogenis, Kerry-Anne Walsh ,Piers Akerman 9am ABC1

Jason

June 8. 2012 05:48 PM

Tom of Melbourne

NormanK, the last thing I need is any additional reassurance about exactly how welcome here my comments are.

But I’ll set your mind at rest. I posted the above here first, it’s obviously written as a response to the new ”look over there” from several contributors.

Somehow, but I’m not at all sure how, they seem to think the more they defame Jackson and Lawler, the more it demonstrates Craig’s innocence. It’s an odd way of thinking in my opinion.

Regardless of the appropriateness or otherwise of Jackson’s actions, it’s Thomson who is an MP and who has a multitude of findings against him.

(But I'm glad you follow the Farnham Report, you should contribute occasionally. People there don't take themselves too seriously.)

Tom of Melbourne

June 8. 2012 06:04 PM

Lyn

Hi Everybody



The Farnham Report is the Old blog "Gutter Trash"

Lyn

June 8. 2012 06:04 PM

Psyclaw

ToM

Jackson was Thomson's main accuser. But there are many of us who pride ourselves in identifying when things just don't add up, and we could see from the outset that KJ's conduct and claims just didn't add up.

Our musings that she did not come to this matter with clean hands are bit by bit, day by day being confirmed.

When the accuser is a rogue, the matters of motive and accuracy come into play.

BTW the multitude of findings against Thomson are based on untested evidence given to an admin tribunal, much of it by a person without clean hands.

Don't bet your house that the findings you obviously yearn for will eventuate.

And especially don't bet your house on the likelihood that Abbott will get the outcome he wanted by pursuing this matter, ie the demise of our good government.

Psyclaw

June 8. 2012 06:04 PM

NormanK

ToM

Where's the quote from this site?

NormanK

June 8. 2012 06:07 PM

Gravel

Talk Turkey

Nah, you're not in trouble, I needed that little kick up the backside, and besides, I watched Glenn Stevens, and he told everyone to stop the doom and gloom too, so the good guys and gals are getting out there spreading the message.

PatriciaWA

Nice little pomette there, you bring a smile to world whenever I am lucky to read one of your pieces.

Gravel

June 8. 2012 06:10 PM

Ad astra

DMW
Thank you for the link to Peter Martin’s piece that included Glenn Steven’s speech The Glass Half Full – a brilliant analysis that is essential reading for anyone interested in an erudite statement about the past and current state of our economy.

He wonders why we Aussies are so pessimistic, always seeing the glass half empty, and goes on to reveal data to show how well we are doing.  He ends by trying to inject a little optimism:

The Australian community has understood that we can’t base growth persistently on falling savings and rising debt and that is forcing changes to business models. But it has to be said that the return of a certain degree of thrift actually strengthens our medium-term position. If we can marry that to a focus on incrementally improving the way we do things – lifting productivity – there is actually a lot to look forward to. For Australians, the glass is well and truly half full.

I know that the Governor of the Reserve Bank would never come out with a blatantly political statement, but we can.  To me it seems patently obvious that while there are many reasons for the pessimism so widespread in Australia, such as the aftershocks of the GFC and the continuing instability of the financial situation in Europe and the slow recovery in the US, a major factor here is the perpetual talking down of the economy and the Government and the PM by Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey.  The constant pessimism they spread is a virulent virus that has infected a large part of the electorate and their daily re-inoculation of the virus never allows an alternative view to develop, never allows recovery.  There is never any respite from their negativity, gloom and doom, their campaign of fear, uncertainty and doubt.  

Don’t tell me this is not having a sinister influence on the nation’s psyche.  The Goebbels dictum applies – tell the people often enough that times are tough, that they are not doing well, that their glass is half empty, despite all the glowing economic data we have heard this week, and they will believe it, and swear on a stack of bibles that this is so.  I realize that there is more to it than that, that the reasons for the gloom are multiple, but to not call the Abbott/Hockey diatribe for what it is – destructive scaremongering – is to ignore the massive elephant in the room that is dropping its load day after day and creating an awful odour in the noses of the people.  

Why won’t our journalists call Abbott and Hockey out for their destructiveness?  Peter Martin comes closer than many, but most cannot see, or remain willfully blinded to this threatening and smelly elephant.  Why?

Ad astra

June 8. 2012 06:12 PM

Ad astra

Folks
Here is the Glenn Stevens' speech:
www.rba.gov.au/speeches/2012/sp-gov-080612.html

Ad astra

June 8. 2012 06:14 PM

Ad astra

Jason
Thanks for the Insiderspanel.  I shall steel myself for a bother dose of Akerman.  I can only hope Mega will shut him up, or at least neutralise him.

Ad astra

June 8. 2012 06:28 PM

Tom of Melbourne

NormanK, certainly I didn’t reintroduce the subject of Kathy Jackson, for example-

”We've just seen his 'heroine,'  Kathy Jackson,sack her lawyers, the Judge, the cleaners and instal herself as the Judge, Jury, Prosecutor and Hangman to paraphrase a comment by The Finnegans over at PB.”


“Apparently Kathy Jackson has asks the judge to quit and sacked her lawyers…”


…and all the links – listed here June 8. 2012 02:41 PM
-----------------
Psyclaw, I’m only pointing out that there are numerous contributors here who urged everyone to withhold their judgment until FWA had concluded its investigation.

Now that the investigation is concluded, they still look for another reason to excuse Thomson, but accuse Jackson, with even less evidence, rationale and justification.

If I was to use the type of language about Gillard that they use against Jackson, I think it would be accused of being a misogynist.

Tom of Melbourne

June 8. 2012 06:29 PM

Patriciawa

Re red heads - someone at PB drew our attention to this.

collectablescorner.auctivacommerce.com/...982.aspx

Is it really our Julia, do you think?  Could well be.

Patriciawa

June 8. 2012 06:42 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

The latest from the Jackson series:

This House Is A Circus, Peter Wicks, Wixxy Leaks
Another thing that may interest some next week is the HR Nicholls Society Dinner is on next Tuesday night in Melbourne. The Guest Of Honour, for the evening is Kathy Jackson.

HR Nicholls for those who are unaware is a Liberal Party think tank. Contributors include Peter Reith, Eric Abetz, Peter Costello, Mal Brough, Andrew Bolt, Michael Kroeger, barrister Stuart Wood who is providing free legal services to Jackson, and of course Tony Abbott.

So, what happens now, do the Coalition back the woman that Tony Abbott has described as “courageous and worthy of admiration”. Alternatively, do they admit that Abbott is reckless, desperate, easily led, and lacking any sort of reasonable judgement by distancing themselves from Jackson.

By Wednesday, we will all know whether the HR Nicholls Society and the Coalition have dropped anchor in “Jacksonville”
wixxy.wordpress.com/.../

Thomson 10: The best job in Jacksonville, Independent Australia

Finally, I wanted to pass on my best to Marco Bolano. Eyewitnesses have informed me that he seemed to have tripped up inside the Federal Court today and rammed acting secretary Peter Mylan with his shoulder, sending Mylan reeling backwards onto the floor. I trust Bellano’s shoulder is not too bruised from this unfortunate “accident”.

www.independentaustralia.net/.../

☜Gwillotine☞ ‏@Gwillotine
Wasn't the whole FWA matter based on information that Kathy Jackson put together? Appalling

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke

Harmers Lawyers statement on Kathy Jackson. RT @antmac9: http://scr.bi/MfMI8Q


Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Tony Abbott - February 1: 'Now we have the union boss Kathy Jackson, a heroic woman...'

Lyn

June 8. 2012 06:55 PM

42 long

justice Moore available from tuesday. Perhaps the long suffering members of the HSU will get some action from the administrator to sort out the rorts. This has got to be a sensible outcome for a situation that has blackened the name of "Union". Abbott was really worried about the deal that the poor HSU people were getting. He said so. so he will applaud this outcome. Perhaps?
  Jackson opposed the appointment. Not enough friends in high places?
  Having asked justice Flick to remove himself from the case because he has the temerity to point to some improper actions on her part (and her "former" lawyers) she has alleged Moore is too close to Shorten. That sounds like a good thing to run with. Alan Jones will no doubT agree

42 long

June 8. 2012 07:07 PM

Jason

Watch out Lyn ToM of Melbourne(BA) will come and "verbal you" again because you put up links that others say!

ToM as usual neglected to tell us that Jackson is only in court at the moment to give reason why her part of the HSU shouldn't be put into administration, nothing to do with Thomson.
Abbott did back this woman if she behaves like a fool in the courts he deserves to be reminded! after all he wants everyone else held to account for what they say.
If people like ToM Abbott and others weren't ..... whipped they might see the forest for the trees.

Jason

June 8. 2012 07:22 PM

Glorfindel

Heya Psyclaw

-- You write as though the probabilities I outlined at 2.14pm today are the equivalent of Lotto probabilities. - -

Well that’s clearly wrong, you can quantify lotto probabilities. I don’t think that we can do that with your guesswork. And that’s the impression that I meant to get across – you’re guessing.  You might like to boast that it’s an educated guess but it’s still a guess.

-- Obviously Peta Credlin, the organ grinder who has worked overtime to keep Abbott, the monkey, in check, would disagree with you. --

Meh show me a chief of staff / SPA / SMA who wasn't worried about the boss.

-- Probabilities don't say that X will occur. They just reflect degrees of likelihood that it will happen--

No kidding, care to quantify any of your guesses in terms of those degrees of likelihood? Oh and if there is a probability of 1 for event X what would the result surely be?

-- The many issues of thin ice on which Abbott is skating today (see again my 10.15 am post today ) are very real and all are within the realms of possibly happening. –

Yep and I’ll send you a postcard from my yacht when that lotto win comes through. It’s in the realm of “possibly happening” too.

-- invite you and other to look at the points I made in (2) to (7)—
Been there done that.  Responded even.

-- and points (1) to (6) at 5.52 –
Ditto

-- That you just can't see that the JG government has been qualitatively quite different to the former NSW and Queensland governments in the national interest reform policies it has had the courage to both pursue and legislate will remain one of life's little mysteries. –

Oh please the reforms of the Bligh government such as QCAT, Moynihan, The Criminal Org bill, Altruistic Surrogacy, Civil Unions, Education, Wild Rivers, Stradbroke National Park, National Park funding, Land clearing etc were fantastic bits of legislation/reform not to mention Anna Bligh’s sterling work during the floods crisis.  

All you’ve mention the NBN, the NIDS and the MMRT which we’ve already dealt with. The NBN will be completed about 8.5 years  after the next election the NIDS which directly affects 0.17% of the electorate. And you expect that this will some-how dramatically influence the next election.

The best thing this government has going for it is the strength of the economy. And really that's down to Rudd and the response to the GFC (not to mention the Hawke / Keating reforms). That was part of the problem last election Gillard was very reluctant to mention the good economic position, as it's pretty much her predecessors work.


-- Similarly how you can say that Abbott can win the next election without having to propose, argue and defend a range of policies defies reality –

Not what I’m saying, straw men would be great if I was bugged by crows but I’m not so you can keep em.

Check out Newspoll August 2010

Newspoll 6-8 August 2010   ALP 52       LIB / NAT 48
Newspoll 13-15 August 2010    ALP 52      LIB / NAT 48
Newspoll 17-19 August 2010    ALP 50.2    LIB / NAT  49.8

  
Election held 21 August. So what do you know Abbott managed to improve his side of politics postion during the last election campaign. DURING A CAMPAIGN ! You know the time when your supposed to announce policy etc.

IF your suggestions are correct then the polls should have gone completely the other way and Abbott should have finished the election campaign in a much worse position than when he started.

Your theory is at odds with reality. Simple as that.

And yet you expect the next election and the next 18 months to somehow be different.

Why ?


Look I really hope Abbott will loose the next election. And if I wanted to I could come up with a bucnha reasons why. But wishes and guesses won't make it so.

Here's hoping you're lucky enough to be right.

Hey Ad astra

So you and me are in a nice big ol Boeing at 10 000 feet when all the engines fail and we begin to free fall. At 5 000 feet we're plummeting out of the sky and I say "well Ad nice knowing you but looks like this is the end" I imagine your reaction would be along the lines of "We've still got 5 000 feet to go, anything could happen" and technically you'd be right but I doubt I'd find much comfort in it.

Glorfindel

June 8. 2012 07:26 PM

2353

So now the Thomson thing is getting a taste of realism (and Johnson has to prove her allegations in Court which so far seems to be a self destructive act), where has LOTO been for the last few days?  It's actually nice to turn on the TV News and see news rather than political carrying on.

Is it that he and Credlin are trying to save some face (see Lyn's quote above from Feb 1) or are they busily planning Plan B?  It would be nice however if the media gave as much coverage to Jackson's creditability as it has done to its claims about Thomson (fuelled by bias and LOTO).

It seems that FWA and AFP have some explaining to do.  FWA for letting a stakeholder in an investigation to access their computer system (which you would assume would be at least password and username protected), AFP for "killing" the enquiry into AWB (which Channel 10 was calling Australia's biggest scandal this morning).

2353

June 8. 2012 07:46 PM

42 long

pathetic analogy really.A Boeing can glide 30 miles from 10,000 feet, but that aside
  We have 2 parties that are progressing their case before the people of australia. Abbotts is for an early election. Gillard just keeps getting on with doing it "in the labour way."
   They each are hostage to circumstances.
  Labour have just amazed the world with the economics in australia. That is a fact. Even Hockey was speechless.(perhaps that's not unusual. sorry I couldn't help myself)
  Swan is called the worlds greatest treasurer by economic journals. It achieves AAA ratings for the first time in history. Interest rates fallinf inflation and unemployement sitting just right. So....
   Hockey says Swan is the "scariest" thing in Australia
Pyne and Abbott think the scariest thing in australia is Craig Thomsons vote .Pyne pokes tongue out at speaker of the house.....
   Read the signs. If things keep going along the current path it's London to a brick on. ( Long time since I heard that one).

42 long

June 8. 2012 07:50 PM

DMW

Hi Ad,
your comment @ 6:10 PM is apt.

Rightly you attribute a fair amount of the problem to the way the opposition economics team talk down the governments actions and the apparent lack of willingness of a large portion of the press pack to call them out.

There are a number of factors influencing the conversation, and, I realise many won't agree, however, one of the the primary influences is the goverment's primary economics salesperson.

Mr Swan, for many, does not exude confidence or give the impression that he is in 'control'. There could be many reasons for this but, given the way his predecessors 'performed', Costello and Keating in particular who were 'showman' and able to weave a story, Swan often looks lack lustre in comparison.

There is a big element of 'theatre' to politics and in many ways Mr Swan lacks the vaudeville needed to counter the comic antics of the three stooges and sidekick Abbott.

Even if Labor, unlikely as I think it is, were to change leaders it seems unlikely that Swannie would go and any new leader would be hamstrung by having a not very believable treasurer as lead in the saddle bags.

DMW

June 8. 2012 08:00 PM

42 long

Don't underestimate Swan. In the early days of this government the LNP put him under massive attack trying to break him. It didn't work though.' I DO wish he wouldn't smile so broadly when things go his way, and he should talk slower when he is confident, but I guess he is human after all. The treasurer does have all the resources of treasury to work for him. I wonder what Tony would use IF he got in. He doesn't trust them because he is so talented in his own right in the area of economics. Costello doesn't agree but what would HE know?

42 long

June 8. 2012 08:04 PM

TalkTurkey

Patricia
That was a lovely little 'pomette' thank you!
That Collectable girl you linked to could be *J*U*L*I*A*, she reminds me of the ABC Collectors intro girl who whirls around and around, one of the prettiest things you'd ever see.  

And thanks to everyone who has said something nice about redheads.
Overall we get more aggravation than accolades for our pigmentation I'd have to say, it touches me more deeply to hear your goodwill than you might imagine. I think it's half I'm getting 'fond' in the head, half I feel some pent-up personal persecution perceptions - which I'm not about to explain.

Gravel, Yep Girl, that's the ticket, jump aboard, Little Engine Can, feel the surge as the last carriages crest the summit!

GO EMMO! GO ALBO! GO the Labor Girls! So many great Labor MHRs!

*J*U*L*I*A* took the lead with DON'T TALK CRAP.

More please from everyone else!




WHOOOO-ooo-OOOOOO-OOOOOOOP  

TalkTurkey

June 8. 2012 08:33 PM

2353

Is this character

www.redbadge.co.uk/.../hood7.gif

a former Prime Minister of Australia or a "arch-villian" in a 60's TV show starring puppets.

(Can't claim this was original - it was on the Shawn Michalef show tonight)

2353

June 8. 2012 08:34 PM

2353

That is former Prime Minister following eye surgery.

2353

June 8. 2012 08:42 PM

TalkTurkey

heh-heh

KJackson da Klaxon!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2VhB7vaZI0

None of the Klaxons on Youtube is half the beast my Dad's 1927 Armstrong Siddeley had though!

TalkTurkey

June 8. 2012 09:12 PM

DMW

OK Swordsters are we up for this?

WHAT IS AUSTRALIA FOR? Australia is no longer small, remote or isolated. It’s time to ask What Is Australia For?, and to acknowledge the wealth of resources we have beyond mining. Over the next two weeks The Conversation, in conjunction with Griffith REVIEW, is publishing a series of provocations. Our authors are asking the big questions to encourage a robust national discussion about a new Australian identity that reflects our national, regional and global roles.

Part 1
Choose your Australian vision: an independent economic leader, or a hole in the ground? Tapan Sarker @TheConversation
theconversation.edu.au/choose-your-australian-vision-an-independent-economic-leader-or-a-hole-in-the-ground-7175

Time for us to get our thinking caps on, to get off the daily treadmill of Jacksonville, the color of the PM's handbag and set our sights on some bigger discussions.

Can we do it?

DMW

June 8. 2012 09:15 PM

42 long

I think the Labor "Girls" do a lot of credit to themselves and us by their behaviour especially in the parliament, and places like Q & A. It does contrast sharply with some ot the "femmes" on the other side.  the 2 Bishops and the Abbott do carry on somewhat Chrissy fits in there too, on cue, feigning outraged righteousness.
   There was a time when the liberals had some fantastic women reps. Bring them back..

42 long

June 8. 2012 11:08 PM

BSA Bob

I've had a long news free day & am now trying to catch up on the latest developments in Jacksonville. From what I've learned I can see why Tony Abbott holds her in such high esteem. Why, she's a gal after his own heart! Judge not doing what you tell him to, get another! She knows more than the lawyers, of whom there'll always be a plentiful supply willing to work for zilch (or at least not charge her). Only others' inappropriate dealings & inconsistencies will be brought up by a media who are her ordained supporters.
In fact just like Abbott she obviously can't understand why the rest of the world doesn't just give her what she wants now.
And I'll bet she hasn't got a Plan B either.

BSA Bob

June 8. 2012 11:10 PM

TalkTurkey

42 long

The men on the Labor front bench are brilliant.

But it is the women who set this Parliament apart, they set the tone, they are the best, they are unique in the world. It is women who will win the next election for us, their leadership and their followership. Their teamwork, their manners, their example, their "stubborn bullock-pull that breaks the horse's heart."

Abbortt's heart is breaking as we speak . . . Boo Hoo Hoo

Below isthe last verse in particular of a sad true poem, Old Grey Squirrel.

Though Abbortt has none of that man's decency.


allpoetry.com/.../8497221-The_Old_Grey_Squirrel-by-Alfred_Noyes


Now he's sitting on a high-stool in London,
the Golden Gate is far away,
For they caught him like a squirrel and they caged him,
now he's totting up accounts and turning grey,
And he'll never get to San Francisco
and the last thing that he will ever see,
Is the sailormen a-dancing in the moonlight
by the capstan that stands beside the quay.
To the tune of the old concertina
by the capstan that stands beside the quay.



So here's how it is for you Abbortt:

You'll be sitting on the back-bench in the Big House,
And Yarralumla's very far away!
We've nailed you good you low-life lying piglouse!*
Your best-laid evil plans have gone astray!
You will never ever live at Kirribilli,
As your droog Archbigot Pell will not be Pope:
You can sit and sadly contemplate your willy,
Cos I can tell you now, abandon hope!


*Rhymes good with Big House . . . Sounds really nasty . . .
I guess pigs do get louses?

TalkTurkey

June 8. 2012 11:18 PM

NormanK

DMW

I initially shied off because it seems to be shaping up to be a wank-fest but I'll give it some thought. My hackles get raised when someone says that there is no vision being shown by our political leaders. I disagree quite strongly. The NBN will be the most important piece of infrastructure that Australia will build this century. It will not only open up Australia, it will connect us to the rest of the world so that we can offer ourselves as one of the 'offices' where data can be sent to be processed. We can be an education hub with the students never having to leave their home country. Digital film-makers will think they are in heaven.

Throw in $10 billion for start-up money for clean energy R&D projects and you have the beginnings of creating from scratch an industry that can export its product world-wide.

As soon as we have the federal budget back under control we can throw money at our universities - not so that they become income streams but so that we enable the transition from labour-intensive industries to intellect-intensive industries.

We should be getting ourselves well out in front with desalination technology so that as the global freshwater crisis starts to bite we can say " have we got a product for you!"

The Gillard government is trying to start the conversation about food production sustainability where we talk about novel and innovative ways of growing food and we should go down that path. Floating farms near desal plants. Vertical farms where water gets used three or four times before it needs to be recycled.

Gillard is trying to start some useful conversations but they get drowned out by 'debt', 'Thomson', 'toxic tax' blah blah blah. She might not be Ray Bradbury (sadly missed) but she does have imagination. A third term with a less fractious opposition might allow it to be seen.

NormanK

June 8. 2012 11:33 PM

NormanK

Courtesy of sprocket_ on PB.

A Day in Court with Kathy Jackson
by Frances Jones
francesjones.wordpress.com/.../

NormanK

June 9. 2012 06:36 AM

DMW

Something a bit different to start off your Saturday.

via @stephenfry
How to feed trolls. Let joy be unconfined. http://bit.ly/LHI6th congratulations to all who made it. A masterpiece.

Mr Fry I concur so go watch:
Thank You Hater! - by Clever Pie and Isabel Fay

and start the day with a giggle or three.

DMW

June 9. 2012 07:14 AM

DMW

Morning NormanK,
I must have walked past the bit where it was said that our pollies had No Vision although I suppose a reference to short termism could be construed as lacking vision.

I take your point that many of the governments conversation starters are being drowned out and ask if many of us are assisting that drowning with what we choose to discuss and therefore point to as important?

An observation:
As soon as we have the federal budget back under control ...

Hmmmm. I beg to differ, the budget IS and has been under control and well managed. I supect you meant to write As the budget moves into surplus .... Tong

On Tapan Sarker's proposition Choose your Australian vision: an independent economic leader, or a hole in the ground?

To me the choice between those two options is clear and simple. I hope that I do not assist in leaving my grandchildren and their children a hole in the ground.

There have been some false starts but we can if we wish grow into being an independent economic leader and with a bit more vision a leader in many other areas.

DMW

June 9. 2012 08:25 PM

DMW

thanks heaps web monkey may you be blessed with many cases of your deepest desire

DMW

June 9. 2012 08:29 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Web Monkey

Thankyou so much for fixing us up. You are a champion Mr Web Monkey.

SmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 9. 2012 08:41 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn, DMW and Folks
Apologies for the interruption today, which was occasioned by the need for maintenance at the establishment where the TPS server is housed.

Thanks to Web Monkey we are in business again.

Ad astra

June 9. 2012 08:49 PM

DMW

Hi Ad,
it seems Mr Abbott does have a Plan B.

When nothing else is working sink the slipper into Asylum Seekers and add a dose of 'only those leeches on welfare can afford to breed'

Is it any wonder many are turning off politics.

DMW

June 9. 2012 09:15 PM

TalkTurkey

On ya Emmo for givin' 'em a demo!
C'mon now Albo, salvo after salvo!
You tell 'em Smithy, som'thin' really pithy!
Go Fellers! Go Girls! Stop 'em talking CRAP!

Thank you Web Monkey for the wrinkles on your brow.

No TPS is worse than no coffee in the morning.



TalkTurkey

June 9. 2012 09:41 PM

42 long

  That's not a plan "B". It's just more of the same low grade BS that this unpleasant person regurgitates. He will continually offend Indonesia. He's already done it with the return the boats rhetoric. That conspicuously will NOT WORK. he gets away with repeating this rubbish, although just occasionally some interviewers pick him up on it. When the tide does turn, it will gain it's own momentum as his utterances are like a pack of cards empty as they are of FACT They are full of DETAIL of course. Things don't just go "up" they go Up, UP, UP. he repeats  things till he has said it 3 times. Now that is REALLY convincing. Always given to exaggeration and overstatement, FEAR That's not a good argument, it's not an argument at all. It's indoctrination. I wonder where he got that idea from?

42 long

June 9. 2012 09:59 PM

Patriciawa

Emerson was fantastic, wasn't he, TT?  Well said!  Specially about no TPS. Lyn's Links were particularly missed.  I'm glad you're around this evening.  I'd love your help with the last lines of this one - does one 'drive full bore' or 'go full bore' - and how do I best get the sense of acceleration out of those last three words?

I won't be posting it until I've revised it, done some notes and illustrated it.  I'm glad I'm not quite there yet because now I can somehow incorporate NormanK's comments about our government's vision and constructive thinking for Oz.  What a contrast to the wretched Coalition -

Tony Abbott And His Prophets Of Doom!

“We’ll all be rooned!”  said Tony Abbott,
Attacking government as per habit,
Trying to bring the economy down,
Applauded by the big end of town.
Indeed,  some managers and bosses,
Well able to bear short term losses,
Saw a good chance to shed some workers,
Get rid of a few;  weed out the shirkers.

As Tony, Julie,  and Joe and spread ‘the facts’
About carbon pricing’s dire impacts,
Worried Aussies,  supporting a family,
Cut down on spending,  unsurprisingly.
Nonetheless  the economy boomed.
The world didn’t think that Oz was doomed.
Towns weren’t destroyed or industries dying,
But in some big stores people weren’t buying.

“Of course they won’t if they’ve lost their job,”
Sneer Barnaby Joyce  and Andrew Robb.
“And for that they can blame Julia Gillard,”
“Rubbish!” says Wayne Swann , coming in hard,
Who’s been twice named, World’s Best Treasurer,
Backed up by another good measurer
Of growth rates, the Reserve Bank boss,  who blames……
Guess who?  He makes it quite clear…..without naming names……

It’s Tony Abbott and his prophets of doom!
Without them we’d really be driving full bore…. Vroom…..VROOM…..VROOM!

Patriciawa

June 9. 2012 10:11 PM

DMW

42 long @ 9:41 PM
oops forgot sarcasm alert
Smile  &  Tong

DMW

June 9. 2012 11:11 PM

TalkTurkey

Patricia

ahem

1. I tend to think that the use of the word shirkers here would tend to appeal to Janet Albrechtsen rather than Dougie Cameron . . . And I don't think you would want to please her . . . (I don't think the apparent implication is quite what you mean. I know the rhyme works but . . . ) So I think you might reconsider that line.

2. The line starting As Tony has a typo or two.  

3. Gillard / in hard is a tenuous rhyme . . . Gillard is hard to rhyme!  You could call her This PM as they do insultingly and that would change the next line, just a thought. Like :
"And for that they can blame this PM!"
"Rubbish!" says Wayne Swan, who shames 'em.
He's been named . . . etc

4. As to what you asked, Smile ,  'go full bore' more usual . . .
or, 'drive flat strap' . . . But what you got is fine anyway . . .

The 'really' is really expletive imo and spoils the punch.

TalkTurkey

June 9. 2012 11:47 PM

NormanK

DMW

I've just gone back and reread that article//challenge. I stand by my first evaluation.
The hackles are standing up again. Here are a few choice quotes - some of them in the lack of vision vein, others just button-pushers for me.

And certainly not according to any of our politicians, who instead focus their energy on short-term political manoeuvring calculated to gain a few Newspoll points against their opposition. (those Newspoll manoeuvrings are working a treat for Labor aren't they? Unimaginative typecasting. Lazy, lazy, lazy)

Why could Prime Minister Julia Gillard admit to having no interest in foreign affairs, just when the waning of the West and the rising of the East presents new opportunities for Australia, a country ideally situated between the two? (On her first trip overseas after being thrust into the job eighteen months too soon)

Australia’s cultural and political myopia has birthed a lack of vision for the future. (NBN, Asia White Paper, CEF scheme with funding for renewable energy R&D)

But vision and self-belief are something that current Australians, and their politicians, seem to lack. (What chance of giving birth to a vision when the following day it will be howled down in the press?)

Calm was only restored when Rudd was knifed and a Prime Minister more accommodating to the mining companies was installed. ('Knifed' will have me seeing red every time it's used)

The new watered-down Minerals Resource Rent Tax, negotiated between Julia Gillard and the three biggest mining companies (BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto and Xstrata), was criticised by economists as actually being more inefficient than the royalty charges it replaced. (It doesn't replace royalties, it augments them)

We need to restore a vision for the future to our politics and political debate, and policies focused on securing Australia’s long-term economic prosperity. (I guess he means things like supporting our educational institutions instead of telling them that they have to be economically viable in their own right as Howard did. Labor is trying to do this)

The entire article is full of tarring both sides with the same brush. True, our public discourse on policy and politics badly needs to be lifted out of short-term sensationalism but as I implied earlier, get rid of Tony Abbott, clean up our tabloid media and then we might be able to judge what vision or imagination exists in our current government. This should not be misinterpreted as a knee-jerk defence of Julia Gillard. This minority government is trying to do some good things and it is thanks to the Greens, Kevin Rudd, the Independents, the ALP and Gillard's steady hand. And yet the popular perception is that minority government is a 'failed experiment'. Yes, it's Abbott's expression but the echoing of it by commentators is what cements the idea in people's minds.

Ironically, sites like The Conversation offer a ray of hope that it might be possible for our best thinkers to share knowledge and swap ideas away from the glare of the MSM which insists on dumbing things down to being about money, scandal, perceived injustice and sex (Thomson gives them all four). It will be interesting to keep an eye on the comments on that article to see whether it descends into the polarised bickering that so often overtakes any serious discourse.

I do understand what you are trying to promote. I guess all that you can do is keep throwing the topics out there. Where they fall within my sphere of knowledge or trigger a considered opinion I will endeavour to engage.

I concur with your correction of my remark about the budget - as you wrote it is as I meant to say it.

NormanK

June 9. 2012 11:58 PM

NormanK

Thank-you Web Monkey.

NormanK

June 10. 2012 12:28 AM

Patriciawa

TT many thanks!  Don't bother with the apologetic cough!  I always hope for criticism like that.  Rarely get it.  It's a compliment!  You'll know what I mean.  

1.   How about

Here was a good chance to shed employees,
Later replace them with cheaper trainees.


2.   Typo fixed.

3.   I'll have your first line, thank you. But then my own?

"And for that they can blame this PM!"
"Rubbish!" Wayne Swann shoots straight back at them.
He's been twice named World’s Best Treasurer,
Backed now by another good measurer
Of growth rates, the Reserve Bank boss, who blames……
Guess who?  He makes it quite clear…..without naming names……


4.  Do we need Guess who?  My accelation format works?  It needs 5 vrooms I think...So with changes last lines are

It’s Tony Abbott and his prophets of doom!
Without them we’d be going full bore….vroom….vroom…. Vroom…..VROOM…..VROOM!
  

Now for illustrations.  Ron Tandberg yesterday was brilliant. www.theage.com.au/.../...ndberg-20090910-fixc.html but it needs permission, held up because of the weekend. Something else?


Patriciawa

June 10. 2012 12:37 AM

Patriciawa

PooBum!   Those gallery links seem to chop and change.  It's this one I think No 3 of 94 at C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Desktop\ron-tandberg-20090910-fixc.html

Patriciawa

June 10. 2012 08:52 AM

Psyclaw

NormanK

Just to quickly say that your comments at 11.18pm, June 8 and 11.47pm June 9 have saved me the time and effort of putting my thoughts down about that particular article.

My hackles were similarly raised.

DMW's question at the end of his 9.12pm, June 8 post "can we do it?" appears to me to be manifestly answered every day at TPS......these are the issues that are constantly discussed here.

the daily treadmill of Jacksonville, the color of the PM's handbag and set our sights on some bigger discussions.  ...... this characterisation of what goes on at TPS is IMHO way off mark.

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 09:19 AM

2353

Web Monkey - you're a real gem.  Thanks lots.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry yesterday morning.  Apart from no TPS, I was following a Council Bus (BCC operate more than a thousand buses) with a small ad on the back for a book by Bob Katter "available at all good booksellers".  The same tome (400+ pages apparently) was reviewed in the Sunday Mail as being typical Bob Katter - all over the place intellectually.

Yesterday's page 3 in the paper was the "unexplained" leave by the new State Government Department Director General of Transport and Main Roads - who according to his minders was on a family holiday to Germany - but his wife gave a different story from Brisbane.  You might remember this bloke, he is a ex- BCC Councillor, ex State Govt MLA and ex- Liberal Party President by the name of Catabianco (sp?).  The paper laboured the point that he has instructed his staff to call him "Mr" rather than Michael - seems there isn't much love between the Courier Mail and Michael.

In todays Sunday Mail there is a reasonable "at home with Julia" story that goes for two pages.  Seems reasonably written in a "Womans Weekly" style.  LOTO didn't get a direct mention until the last few paragraphs, Wilkie got mentioned much sooner.

2353

June 10. 2012 10:17 AM

TalkTurkey

From Poll Bludger

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
confessions

Posted Sunday, June 10, 2012 at 8:28 am | Permalink

[Quoting someone]
"I eagerly await the day when your party room finally turns on you and relegates you to the dustbin of “close but no cigar” ex-Leaders of the Opposition."

If the history of the last few Decembers leading into election years is any guide, Abbott will be replaced in December this year.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Others beginning to focus their Eye of Time . . . At last . . .

Never forget I've l-o-n-g-g-g-g-g said

Abbortt Remember
The Ides of September
Dismembered by November
Dead Meat by December.

Abbortt is faltering badly, looking like a fool more every minute. His latest Boats idiocy is losing him what credibility he had and Labor's confected woes re Slipper and Thomson are going to come back to bite him.

This was always going to happen to him. You can't fool most of the people for more than a few years. He is stale, unfunny, unclever,
his crook chooks are all coming home to roost on his head and he's covered in it.
                                 *
BTW OK,so Labor paid $350K to pay Thomson's costs? Well I'm glad of that, he is probably the least guilty of any of that mob, he might be perfectly innocent of any wrong-doing as far as I know! If he's not charged how can he be guilty?

MEANWHILE . . . Mary Jo Fisher having been FOUND GUILTY of assault and/or was it theft (but she done both anyway) has NO CONVICTION recorded against her after critical CCTV footage DISAPPEARED!

AND HER #***ing QC WHOSE NAME IS ABBORTT TOO WANTS YOU TO FOOT THE BILL! ? $900,000 + someone said! O boy you should hear his reasoning too about how sshe was so important she had to have the best legal representation, (i.e. him!)

And you hardly hear a murmur about it! Media see.  

                                *

Abbortt is gone basically, it is a matter of just how long it takes him to rot. I have never contemplated another man's discombobulation with greater delight.

Especially since he is performing exactly according to my own predictions, and, as becomes increasingly manifest, according to the Gillard Government's game plan. Which really I suppose is what both Ad astra and I correctly sussed all along, well it didn't take rocket science nor crystal balls, it's what *J*U*L*I*A* has quietly projected all along, remember I talked about the way she holds her lower lip? She faces the hard blows without flinching but she is no weather vane (does that work? Smile ), she has set this course and held firm to it, we have weathered the storm and rounded the Horn before any other ship of state, how's that for metaphors then, before us the Pacific ('peaceful') Ocean beckons, not that things can't go wrong, but the legislation is in place and bedding down and its BISONS have morphed into BENISONS (Beautiful EXTRAORDINARY NONPAREIL Inspiring Sets Of Numbers!) and are coming through to the People. Labor cares about people, and it's doing fine too.

In all this, there are things one can't predict, some good for us some bad, big things too, the biggest of which has always been the astonishing, unprecedented bias of the Media, especially the ABC which had thitherto been at least reasonably fair Slipper's defection from (make that defecation on Smile)the rotten Right; Wilkie's wobbliness, Thomson's traumas, Slipper's sequestration, but beyond it all the Government has sailed on safely, the best-managed economy in the world providing huge BENISONS for the People, looking a hell of a lot better than the Media are still giving us credit for, but they would be like that wouldn't they, being dragged screaming into the reality they have never had the Eye of Time to foresee . . . That Labor is wonderful managers of the economy!  

Glen Stevens on Lopsiders saying just that. Crassidy not so lopsided today! (OMIDOG! Labor might win! Quick check the emergency chute! Smile )

Meanwhile, in longwinded reply to the question posed at the top of this page, Ad, I think the answer is, like,

Yes Abbortt probably does have a sort of Plan B,

and a Plan B it will always remain,

because what he hasn't ever had is a proper Plan A!  



TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 10:27 AM

Patriciawa

What a great story 2353.  Thank you.  Honest, well written, feature article, I think.  Yes, down to earth, easy to read.  But women's weekly style?  Judge for yourself at www.couriermail.com.au/.../story-fn6ck45n-1226389880551

By the way there's been a bit of sneering at PB about the knitting angle, but very quickly jumped on by the pro Gillard camp.  My own contribution.....

I’d imagine that knitting would be a great unwinder, no irony intended there, and have a calming effect at times of stress. Better for one’s state of mind than revving up on a bike! Or even walking purposefully around Sydney in one’s trackie in the early hours with security and press contingent on one’s heels. The PM has obviously been known as a knitter for years in Canberra. No one has ever used it to question her intellect, political nous or capacity for leadership before.

The TPS cheer squad would thoroughly approve of the pics too.

Patriciawa

June 10. 2012 10:31 AM

Patriciawa

I always wait for comment here before deciding if I'll watch Insiders, time delayed in the west.  So after reading your thumbs up TT, Tacker and I will now dash out for 'wee' walk and back for brekkie with Cassidy and crew, Piers A notwithstanding.

Patriciawa

June 10. 2012 10:35 AM

TalkTurkey

Hesitantly I say

*J*U*L*I*A* should always wear a necklace in public appearances . . . Especially e.g. on Q&A.

Just a modest simple necklace, but not no necklace . . . I think it's like a tie on a bloke, but it frames a girl's face and it decorates that blank bit of chest that fellers don't display.

Well that's what I think anyway.

Hands up if you agree.

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 10:48 AM

TalkTurkey

Breaking a years-long habit to watch BumBolt hammering Abbortt

Ha ha ha ha ha.  

Bolt says the right anwers built into his questions, all Abborrt has to say is, a, Yes a of course, a Andrew, uh, Stop the Boats and uh she broke a uh promise . . .

Della bosca being feeble and Kroger being Kroger, bleaaaarrrghhhh.    

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 11:10 AM

Ad astra

Folks
There is an article in Fairfax’s Brisbane Times by Peter Hartcher that is a ‘must read’.  It is titled: Merchants of doom, beware.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120608-201el.html

A few paragraphs jumped out at me:  

After detailing the good economic news this last week Hartcher says: “ And the "wrecking ball" that Abbott and the opposition have warned time and time again is going to smash its way through the economy? There was no sign of it, not yet, anyway. Business investment surged, mainly in the mining sector. Household spending was even stronger.”

Later there was this: “Greg Combet spelt out the problem that the Abbott opposition confronts. In Parliament's question time last week, the Minister for Climate Change said of Abbott:

"He predicts the death of manufacturing, the death of the auto industry, the death of mining, the death of the coal industry, the death of the nickel industry, unimaginable cost increases, unimaginable power price increases, apples, fruit, mincemeat, chops, T-bone steaks - all out of reach; there is no way anyone will be able to buy anything.

"There is doom for families, doom for pensioners, older people, younger people, babies, the middle-aged - they are all doomed. And none of it is true. No one over on that side of the House believes him either. No one believes him. They put their money where they think the markets are really going."
Combet then went on to name the Coalition investors in coal.

Further on Hartcher says: “Abbott thought that it wouldn't come to this. When he started his vociferous fear campaign, he was convinced that the minority government would have lost its footing and fallen by now. But it has not and he now confronts a serious credibility challenge.

“He knows the risk. He knows that we'll wake up on July 2 and the sky will not have fallen and we'll still be eating T-bone steak. He's already started to adjust his rhetoric accordingly, a pre-emptive exit from the trap of his own making.”


And still further on: “Abbott's dilemma is likely to compound. Because he has sworn an oath in blood that he will repeal the carbon tax and the mining tax. But if the taxes come into effect, and nothing terrible comes to pass, and Australia continues to succeed, why bother? Why put companies through the cost and inconvenience of dismantling all the changes they'll have put in place already?

“The Abbott opposition needs more than doomism. It needs a bigger story to tell. It needs not just to damn the government. The vacuity of the opposition's response to the good economic news this week exposed exactly the need - it needs to be able to say: The Australian economy is doing OK, and here's how we will make it better.”


Hartcher goes on to talk about some Coalition plans being developed by Julie Bishop and Andrew Robb.  Maybe they have a Plan B even if Abbott doesn’t.

Ad astra

June 10. 2012 11:24 AM

Ad astra

TT
If your prediction of Tony Abbott being replaced by Christmas comes true, I can see an ad on the Liberal website: Used wrecking ball for sale – too soft to wreck solid objects, badly worn, reasonably priced.  Might be suitable for lighter jobs.

Ad astra

June 10. 2012 11:27 AM

DMW

Hi NK,
There are at least two reasons that I read the article with a different set of glasses to those you appear to have chosen.

As stated in the preamble:
The Conversation, in conjunction with Griffith REVIEW, is publishing a series of provocations. Our authors are asking the big questions to encourage a robust national discussion about a new Australian identity that reflects our national, regional and global roles.
so I expected to be provoked, pushed and prodded but not necesarily to agree with what was written.

As a commenter over there, Roxane Paczensky (a Registered Nurse) wrote:
I must say when I looked over the disclosure statement before reading I expected to be subjected to the usual neo-liberal rubbish we keep getting fed. What a great suprise to find it wasn't.
When I read He (Tapan Sarker) owns shares in Rio Tinto and BHP Billiton. among other disclosures I expected something quite different.

Boring old fart , know it all hat on warning.
The hackles are standing up again ... others just button-pushers for me

Intriguing isn't it that we allow our buttons to be pushed, particularly those buttions that raise our hackles, get the hairs on the back of the neck bristling. We do have a choice. We can get offended and defensive or, we can choose to take the examples you have offered as one persons reasonable assessment of the current state of play, agree with some, disagree with others, move on and look to the horizon.

Tong [/bof-kia hat off]

The discussion the article has provoked on the site (which I have not read all of) is interesting and while maybe not enlightening it certainly is illuminating as it has shined some light into corners I had not looked.

[cynical outlook and provocation warning on]
Maybe this is not the place for discussion of the future as (the royal?) we are more stuck in the here and now of day to day political happenings and maneuverings.

It may be that our hopes for the future are built on rubbery numbers, such as those economic indicators released this last week, as rays of light to a bright and bountiful future.

Let's take the easy path and blame Mr Abbott and the media for the morass we are in.

Let us dare not speak any word of the failure of leadership because the NBN (a vision that is no longer a vision as it moves into reality) is here to save us.

[/provocation off] [cynics hat stays on]

DMW

June 10. 2012 11:33 AM

Ad astra

Patriciawa
Insiders was reasonably positive today.  There was ample coverage of the good economic news, which Mega amplified, leaving Pies Akerman spluttering.  His impact was small, he was largely ignored and received a couple of well deserved back handers.  The Tony Burke interview was very good, showing up the Campbell Newman modus operandi.  Tony is another proficient minister.

The talk about Channel Seven versus Channel Nine’s treatment of the Craig Thomson affair left Nine looking shabby, but apparently still determined to prove itself right.  Akerman spluttered again, fearing Thomson might slip off the hook.

It was not too bad even with Akerman.

Ad astra

June 10. 2012 11:36 AM

42 long

That is all very heartening Ad As. Wixxy has just sent a letter to the independent's that we should look at. perhaps a petition might follow up some of this.
  Watched Crassidy this morning and thought a more than usual amount of backgrounding had been done. Ackerman was consistent but more like a long playing phonygraph with an off button that keeps failing. Some of his followers would think he was doing a good job, no doubt but there was no substance in it and a lot of talking over the top of the others. This programme lacks depth but what else is there?
Is there a serious political think tank in this country? I even used to listen to B.A Santamaria. because it least he sounded like he was educated, and you don't have to agree with everybody to get something out of what they say. It least you know what they are thinking.

42 long

June 10. 2012 11:40 AM

DMW

Hi Ad,
re your comments on the Hartcher article @ 11:10 AM

I attempted to save a comment yesterday morning about the article asking cynically 'Has someone spiked the drinking water over at Fairfax?' (bu@@er I wrote over it)

DMW

June 10. 2012 12:01 PM

42 long

  Perhaps they are smarter political analists than we credit them with being. They may see the tide turning. IF that was the case, there would ba a change.. The country IS very polarised, more than I can remember especially over quite small issues  really ( compared with conscription with WW 1  vietnam etc)( Not suggesting I was around at WW 1, but have read a bit about it)

42 long

June 10. 2012 12:01 PM

NormanK

DMW

I'll take some of that bait.

Let's take the easy path and blame Mr Abbott and the media for the morass we are in.

That's not what I said. I said take them out of the equation and we might have a better chance of evaluating the worth or otherwise of this government's vision. I know that you don't necessarily share this view but I firmly believe that the media is an incredibly powerful opinion maker/educator. Imagine for moment that it was beneficent and not profit-driven. It is the media and the use of it by our best thinkers that could present to the population a wide variety of ideas for discussion such that, come election time, we could choose between competing candidates based on which of those ideas they supported. It is not just up to our politicians to come up with ideas for the future. In so many ways they are just facilitators. The ABC used to be the conveyor of fairly objective fact and the source of fanciful speculation about policy alternatives. Now it is the conveyor of gossip and basically only discusses policy as it is seen through the prism of politics. SBS is doing what it can within the constraints of its funding. As for every other media house - pfffft.

Let us dare not speak any word of the failure of leadership .....

Speak away. Rather than talking about talking about serious issues regarding the future of the country, how about addressing the issues directly.

..... because the NBN (a vision that is no longer a vision as it moves into reality) is here to save us.

So, once a vision reaches 10% completion it ceases to be visionary and can be discounted as an innovation that is going to be one of the drivers of our prosperity for the rest of the century? You're a hard man to please.

Speaking of buttons being pushed - as soon as I hear someone declaring that there is a lack of leadership I know I am listening to someone who feels that the leadership is not doing what s/he wants them to do. It is rarely the case that leadership is not being shown, only that the complainer disagrees with the decisions taken and the direction adopted. For example, NSW irrigators are calling for strong leadership on the MDBP. South Australians are calling for leadership on the same issue. Unfortunately, the outcome each desires is diametrically opposed to the other's.

NormanK

June 10. 2012 12:13 PM

TalkTurkey

Patricia your lines are a further improvement on mine as I was hoping, I'd rather you'd done the final fine-tuning of course, it's your pome, but I'm glad to help.
Is any writing ever perfect? Rhymes can be (and imo should be ftm) but in pometry one can sometimes look back and wished a word here or there to be different from what you've already put about . . .


A Czech friend of mine says, quoting someone else, "There's no good writing, only good rewiting." I don't actually know about that,  when I lose a post from TPS and try to rewrite it, it's never as good, in fact it feels like a zombie's effort. Spontaneity in this-here sort of writng seems far more appropriate anyway.

There's a bit in The Plague I think it is where a bloke spends years trying to write what he is fixated on making the most fantastic beginning to a story ever . . . So he just does one sentence over and over until he thinks he's got it perfect . . . then he shows the bloke who's telling the story, who points out a simple factual flaw about the meaning of the word 'sorrel' and that blows the bloke's whole perfect line!*

(And Here it is! Dog I love the WWW! Just google sorrel plague and in an instant it's there, well a descriptor of and ref to it anyway.

The Plague Part 2, Chapter 4 Summary

•People finally start freaking out about the plague, right around the time Paneloux delivers his sermon.
•One night shortly after, Grand and Rieux see a lunatic laughing silently out in the street and swaying from side to side.
•The two men head to a café for a drink.
•Grand tells Rieux about his book; he seems rather ambitious about the project.
•It seems the man is trying to get the language for his book exactly right. So much so, in fact, that he spends "whole weeks" sometimes on a "mere conjunction."
•They end up at Grand’s place, and Rieux takes a look at this manuscript.
•Grand has written…one entire sentence. And it (that sentence) isn’t done yet.
•Want to hear it? "One fine morning in the month of May an elegant young horsewoman might have been riding a handsome sorrel mare along the flowery avenues of the Bois de Boulogne."
•Yes, that’s it. What were you expecting, Milton?
•Just then, the sound of "hurried footsteps" is heard from the streets outside. Looks like everyone is rushing the gates to try to escape.

Next Page: Part 2, Chapter 5

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


So you can see he'll never write his book, like me.

[Well that last bit's not quite true, I have writ a tome of a pome, Breeze in the Blue~Gums, kinda Greenie-political-educational, if anybody asks to see a bit of it I'll put up a single page of it here, Ad knows it already.
Just saying, no barrow-push.]

Anyway Patricia yes I think what you have is fine.
Just don't worry too much about the sorrel mares.      

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 12:31 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Twitterverse for you:-

HannahQuinn‏@NannaHannah
Craig Emerson rips into the ABC | The Stump http://bit.ly/LbRasB We need tabloid-ism to stop everywhere. Gov and Opp should b abt issues

PB‏@youngapprentice
www.independentaustralia.net/.../ great article by Ellis! Let's hope he is wrong but scary if right - not for @JuliaGillard but for notion of free press

Stephen clements‏@supercededman1
@GeorgeBludger @franklinmatthew Matthew, so-called journos not doing journalism Disappointing. Better informed/informing bloggers out there

TAWNBPM‏@TAWNBPM
"Up until Tony Abbott became Opposition Leader on Dec 1, 2010 through the acceptance of a vote from Peter... http://fb.me/1RDCg3YkH

archiearchive‏@archiearchive
The Prime Minister is talking tough as she shares a yarn with Claire Harvey | http://thetelegraph.com.au http://bit.ly/LbJ1CP

John Pratt‏@Jackthelad1947
Forests of corruption The price for carbon should be $70 a ton. http://www.theage.com.au/environment/-202ri.html

Run Geek Run‏@geeksrulz
The Thomson affair exposes the media's salacious mindset. http://tinyurl.com/82ks46a David Marr called the sex worker a tart on Q&A

Leroy‏@Leroy_Lynch
Abbott won't repeal carbon tax: Gillard news.smh.com.au/.../...gillard-20120610-203r0.html AAP via @smh #auspol #climate #ausbiz

Fran Barlow‏@fran_b__
Abbott, perceptions of economic competence & debt as moral descriptor. Some remarks: johnquiggin.com/.../#comment-174667 #ALP #auspol #greens #keynesianism

Tads‏@Tadlette
Alan Jones "charismatic and devious peddler of loyalty" perfect head for Menzies House offshoot Galileo Mvmnt http://bit.ly/JZaGU0 #auspol

Victoria Rollison‏@Vic_Rollison
“@smh: National News: Abbott's doom forecasts are a great deceit http://bit.ly/Moee4a ” I'm in shock! SMH headline quotes govt! Not Abbott

Simon Palomares‏@SimonPalomares
Melbourne is now the world's third-most pricey city to park in www.theage.com.au/.../...-cash-20120609-202wu.html

psychamuse‏@psychamuse
Good read about Prime Miister Gillard www.couriermail.com.au/.../story-fn6ck45n-1226389880551 #Auspol

ABC News‏@abcnews
Mining companies to post job vacancies on website for Australians before seeking foreign workers under new legislation http://bit.ly/LJwiV3

bazarazzi‏@bazarazzi
Home-knitting with Julia Gillard. PM talks knitting, possum wee and her parents. Unusual article. news.com.au/.../story-e6frfkvr-1226390180806

Tony Burke‏@Tony_Burke
#insiders refreshing to have an interview entirely about policy

Nellie‏@woolkebb
a very informative Insiders ruined by the revolting Piers Ackerman #Insiders

Stephen Koukoulas‏@TheKouk
after most extraordinary week on economy in years, #insiders spends more time on Thompson that economy...

AndoJC‏@AndoJC
@colonelhogans At least when Piers is on #insiders there are alternative views which usually make him look stupid

Lyn

June 10. 2012 12:44 PM

DMW

NK
before I shuffle off around the traps

There is a difference between a 'lack of leadership' and a 'failure of leadership'.

There are times the lack is the cause of the failure.

Acknowledging and learning from failures can move one onto a path toward success. (See Tim Harford's Adapt  among others).

Perceptions and realities can often be at odds, sometimes they align.

The causes and reasons for our mythconceptions are open to much debate and discussion.

One reality is that there is a perception of a government that is at sixes and sevens that is more adept at turning success into failure than looking like good administrators.

It is easy to say but that is the picture the meeja is painting and it is all on the say so of Mr Abbott

Some people accuse the meeja of creating stories out of thin air and that it is all in meeja's imagination. Reality is that the media is basing it things that are happening.

Yes there are some articles that are kite flying that is intended to flush people out but by far the majority are based on information received. Where some journalists fail is that they accept all information as accurate and do not test it for veracity and/or question the agenda of the information supplier.

Despite the very stiff breeze of constant disparagement of Mr Abbott emboldened by a supposedly totally compliant and kow-towing meeja a fair proportion of the governments ills are of their own making.

There are some who know and acknowledge it, there are some who would rather deny the realities and accuse others of causing the problems.

DMW

June 10. 2012 01:00 PM

Psyclaw

NormanK....never a truer word than this:

as soon as I hear someone declaring that there is a lack of leadership I know I am listening to someone who feels that the leadership is not doing what s/he wants them to do.

DMW
As NormanK says, if you want there to be a discussion about leadership, then get on with it! Lead off! Set the scene!  

There are many here who will join in, because we prefer discussions about real issues and do not here concentrate on the daily treadmill of Jacksonville, the color of the PM's handbag and set our sights on some bigger discussions.

From the outset though, let me say that when the Conversation article authors call for asking the big questions to encourage a robust national discussion about a new Australian identity that reflects our national, regional and global roles. they are talking a load of tosh IMHO. JG and her policies have delivered an identity for the future in spades.

What the authors would have been better off calling for is an analysis of why that message/vision is not getting out. That a JG vision for a future Australia  does not exist is a straw man they have set up.

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 01:08 PM

Gravel

Ad Astra

I realize that there is more to it than that, that the reasons for the gloom are multiple, but to not call the Abbott/Hockey diatribe for what it is – destructive scaremongering – is to ignore the massive elephant in the room that is dropping its load day after day and creating an awful odour in the noses of the people.   

These are almost an echo of what we were saying the other day.  On the Peter Harcher article, praising J Bishop on more FTA's, where was he while Labor has been in all the countries locally and further away signing FTA's?

PatriciaWA

Another great pome.  Vroom vroom vroom says it all about our economy.  I hadn't realised that Swanny got two Best Treasurer Awards, only thought he had one.

Gravel

June 10. 2012 01:16 PM

TalkTurkey

Swordsfolks
Just want to point out what we've got here in the person of Lyn.
Her Links are everywhere, especially on Twitter. The PM sees them every day. We all take notice of them. From her little computer she has become Liaison Central, if she hadn't happened the Fifth Estate would be lesser, and if she ever stopped we would be like those bees I said the other day, without their Queen, lost and bewildered!

Good on you Lyn, when we win as win we will the victory will in no small part be yours. Thank you every day.

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 01:27 PM

42 long

An invaluable assett. Many forums are feral and have to be moderated. This seems to be "nice". It's tha ONLY way to get the truth. ( Like finding the bad stuff on food labels you have to read the fine Print.) It's actually worse than that but the principle is the same. The "system" doesn't make it easy because it would spoil their game and a lot have their snouts in the trough. If someone goes to an inordinate amount of effort to try to get you to believe something SMELL A RAT. It works every time,especially in politics.

42 long

June 10. 2012 01:33 PM

Patriciawa

DearMW - In your response to NormanK you say

Where some journalists fail is that they accept all information as accurate and do not test it for veracity and/or question the agenda of the information supplier.

It would be nice if it were as straightforward as that.  But we know it's not and it never has been.  That's why even as a child I recall wise heads cautioning me not believe everything I read in the papers.

No one told me an even more important thing about newspapers and journalists which has possibly always been true, but never more so than now.  It's not what they write in the papers but what they don't write about that matters.  As with politicians, I guess, it's not what they say, but what they refrain from saying which is often very significant.

A propos of which, Craig Thomson's increasing credibility rating, and that of the Fair Work Australia report, depended far more on the antics of Kathy Jackson in court this week than the goings on of ACA and TT vying for audiences. Dispensing with legal advisors, personally challenging a federal high court judge, accusing him of bias and telling him he should disqualify himself?  Even if it weren't about an issue which threatened a government and had been a front page story for years now, surely those details were colorful enough to make the news?  It's not as if they were irrelevant to the program content.  Piers Akerman made much of the FWA report condemning Thomson.  I waited in vain for some sort of interjection from the others. Nothing, except a flustered confusion before Cassidy moved them on.

Ad Astra, did you notice that?   I wonder if Psyclaw watched.

Patriciawa

June 10. 2012 01:42 PM

TalkTurkey

Listen here:

The three Labor leaders in my experience
who have been most shrilly reviled by the Right
have been

Don Dunstan

Gough Whitlam

Paul Keating

WHY WOULD THAT BE?

- Because they were the BEST!

They threatened the status quo!

They were genuine committed reformers all!

GUESS WHY *J*U*L*I*A* is so reviled!!!

Is that so hard to understand, ye who still call for her to be replaced?

Or is it your understandery that is a bit short on software?

More than two thirds of Caucus want her as Leader, do yous reckon they have no idea? Maybe you think they don't care?
If she thought that another would have a better chance of leading Labor to victory next time around, do you think she would insist on staying? She's not a bloke you know!

Steady as she goes, Skipper. See how the mains'l sets!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdov2UIjUpY

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 01:49 PM

Glorfindel

The Ad Astra approach to:

- Medicine, it might be cancer might not be let’s wait and see
- Engineering, those cracks in the bridge’s foundation might mean that the structure could fail, but they might not. Let’s keep running trucks over it and wait and see
- Motoring, that warning light might mean something it might not, let’s keep driving and wait and see
- Parenting, the babies high fever might come down or it might not let’s wait and see

There are time when the nature of the problem suggest that "wait and see" is not the best approach.

So how long should we wait? If Gillard has until Christmas would that leave enough time for somebody competent to take over ?

Hey 42 long

A Boeing can glide that far hey. So if one was actually plummeting out of the sky then there would be even MORE reason to be worried. You might even have serious doubts about the capacity of the pilot and the flight crew. Might think that they are clearly out of their depth and only a miracle could save you. In other words it looks like a spot on analogy to me.

-- Swan is called the worlds greatest treasurer by economic journals --

So was Keating remember those base-ball bats weren't they great.


-- Read the signs. If things keep going along the current path it's London to a brick on.  --

Yeah yeah yeah and Anna will storm home in the last week ......

Actually thought the current path puts the party in opposition for a heck of a long time. And I don't know about London to a brick but you can get as much as 7-1 for a Labor victory right now. How many Swordsters have put money on ? Or are you waiting for the odds to blow out a bit more ?

Glorfindel

June 10. 2012 01:50 PM

TalkTurkey

Patriciawa said

. . . ACA and TT vying for audiences . . .

Oh Patricia
That is like a stake in my heart! Smile

They can be T T if they like . . .

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 01:54 PM

NormanK

Psyclaw

What the authors would have been better off calling for is an analysis of why that message/vision is not getting out.

I agree with most of your comment except for the above. If the author wanted to stimulate a discussion about Australia's future prospects and how best to achieve them, he could have acknowledged that some form of vision currently exists and then gone on to foster a debate about whether it is the right one. If not, why not? What are the alternatives? Instead he has declared that there is a virtual vacuum just begging to be filled.

More generally, (not directed at you Psyclaw) Tony Abbott has a vision for Australia. I have absolutely no idea what it comprises because since he assumed the leadership he has talked in riddles, contradicted himself and buried much of his actual thinking but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It may only be a short-term plan, say 20 years and it could be criticised for that but to say that none of our politicians have plans for where they would like the country to go is just nonsense. Far more likely is that the author feels that issues which are important to him aren't being given sufficient attention.

C'mon DMW. You opened the bidding. Some specifics on failure of leadership rather than generalisations. I'll also be happy to go further done the path of our media's incompetence - a generous euphemism designed to avoid using the word 'bias'. Smile

NormanK

June 10. 2012 02:08 PM

TalkTurkey

Jeez Glorfie you'll for real give me SEVENS?

I'll have a grand on that, how will we arrange this? Up to you.
I pledge to donate any winnings to the Adelaide Zoo. You may trust me to honour my debt and my word should I lose. I don't care what you might do with your $1000 then.

Ad astra would be happy to hold our bets I shouldn't wonder.
Waddya say Goldie?

You wanna go higher? Happy to oblige . . .

And note, I'm not usually a betting man . . . but sevens, wow, yep!

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 02:31 PM

TalkTurkey

Psyclaw said
There are many here who will join in, because we prefer discussions about real issues and do not here concentrate on the daily treadmill of Jacksonville, the color of the PM's handbag and set our sights on some bigger discussions.

Real issues. Most importantly, the fact that *J*U*L*I*A* should wear a simple, modest necklace on Q&A and at all public appearances.

And I'm not kidding. Women have to say, Ohhh doesn't she look nice, it is vitally important. Blokes too but we will win via women, grudgingly but more and more granting our PM the credit she deserves, but she must look nice, and when they do turn they will bring a lot of blokes with them, some of whom will have been a bit diffident about openly admiring her. . .

So please *J*U*L*I*A*, just a nice little necklace to adorn your pretty neck, your looking lovely is a political act and it's a vital necessity to fight with all your charms and weapons.

Who do I think I'm telling! . . .  Well, just about the necklace anyway. You know it makes sense.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are Q&A questions supposed to be unrehearsed, a surprise even to Wormtongue Jones? I don't believe it, and it seems to me that several are always very very, I mean exceptionally and offensively, skewed to the hateful Right. What do you think?

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 02:41 PM

42 long

Glorfindel, IF you are so sure of the outcome (and it is obviously what you want) why do you bother to write here? If you believe your own words, you are wasting them. Have you ever voted labour? (I won't let on.) I HAVE voted liberal, but it was a DIFFERENT liberal to this bunch of fifth rate actors and god pretenders who would rather play dirty tricks than have policy. I also judge them by who they accept contributions from and who they associate with.

42 long

June 10. 2012 02:59 PM

Patriciawa

Dear Talk Turkey, or TT!   Forgive me.  I had done a PS for you which I seem to have excised from my comment as I tried the preview button several times in vain.  It was a combined thank you/apology in the form of a pomette about not splitting hairs and sorrel mares, but getting on with it, don't just sit, write the pome and publish the tome!  It's lost forever now since I don't keep copies of comments before posting and I have a lousy memory. I see you know the angst of such lost masterpieces!

But I do remember indicating that a bit of your Breeze in the Blue~Gums, would not go amiss today in light of Barry Cassidy's observation that the environment was not much discussed in the public arena these days.  Perhaps we could re-kindle the discussion here on TPS since your poem is 'kinda Greenie-political-educational.'  Anything in it about oceans, or perhaps rivers?  Of would that be too avant-garde judging the Minister's commentson Insiders suggesting that we should now turn our attention from the skies to the seas.

Wasn't Tony Burke great?  He looked so cheerful and clean  and Green too, so full of enthusiasm for the environment.  I guess as a pollie whatever he does won't satisfy all parties, but how do environmentalists see him?

TTFN!  

Patriciawa

June 10. 2012 03:11 PM

Ad astra

DMW
It was a surprising article by Peter Hartcher, but you may have noticed he used the words ‘sweet spot’ on two occasions.  The Sweet Spot – How Australia made its own luck and could now throw it all away is the title of Hartcher’s 2011 book, which I found excellent reading. The first reference to the sweet spot was: “Rather than any kind of wasteland, Wayne Swan described the Australian economy to the Herald yesterday as "the sweet spot". The Treasurer said: "We have sustainable growth, contained inflation, solid consumption, and we've still got an elevated savings rate. It doesn't get much better than that." and later “The problem for the government is that it doesn't get any better than this. After reaching "the sweet spot", the unfolding eurozone crisis threatens to harm the world economy and Australia will suffer with it. The Australian economy will likely continue to be the envy of the world, and the Reserve Bank's cuts to interest rates are a pre-emptive stimulus. Yet the opposition will seek to link any decline to the effects of the carbon and mining taxes.”

The sound of one’s very own words is sweet!

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120608-201el.html

Ad astra

June 10. 2012 03:16 PM

42 long

With the climate discussion/consideration, much is centred on temperature. The oceans have been absorbing CO2 ( which is weightless according to Tony and a fertiliser according to Minchen) and reducing the amount left in the atmosphere where it affects heat getting away from the earth's surface. As the Oceans absorbe more CO2 it forms acids which have built up to the level where some creatures cannot form their hard shells and may be wiped out. the food chain in the ocean may change (or should I say MUST change we already have only jellyfish in otherwise "dead" patches of oceans.)   We are talking about plankton which is the basis of all sea life, not just the odd rare extinct thing with a funny name.

42 long

June 10. 2012 03:20 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
The Twitterverse is illuminating as usual.  Is comment at last swinging in favour of the Government?  Let’s hope PM Gillard and Labor can build on the great figures of last week and show the electorate what a sterling job the Government is doing.  Despite the nay saying from Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott, the country is blessed with prosperity and has a future most countries envy.  They will run out of puff, and credibility, if they continue their negative, destructive lines.

Ad astra

June 10. 2012 03:21 PM

Ad astra

Folks
Since it is a long Queens Birthday weekend in several states extending to Monday, Lyn will next post her links on Tuesday morning.

Ad astra

June 10. 2012 03:23 PM

TalkTurkey

Ad
Didn't I say just a few days ago that Labor is sitting in the sweet spot . . . (and yes I love being picked up on too ) . . .

Wayne Swan likes quoting me . . . The 3 Stooges . . . Remember? Smile

It makes you think someone is noticing eh.

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 03:31 PM

Ad astra

Glorfindel
You may think that Julia Gillard is a potential cancer, or a bridge with a crack, or that a warning light is suggesting something is seriously wrong with her, or that her baby’s ‘fever’ might be serious, and therefore discount as dangerous what you style a ‘wait and see’ approach.  

I don’t entertain any of those notions, so please don’t channel your ideas onto me. Have your opinions, but don’t lay them on me.

My view is that Julia Gillard is the greatest strength the Federal Parliamentary Labor Party has.  There is no one who could do the job better.

Have your fantasies by all means, but don’t impose them on others.

Ad astra

June 10. 2012 03:58 PM

Psyclaw

NormanK

Thanks for your reply.

I really think we're pretty close to being in agreement.

In my 2nd last para at 1.00pm today, that's what I was clumsily getting at ie criticising the Converstaion author for the argument that there is, to use your words, a vacuum.  This is the straw man I was referring to and disagreeing with.

IMHO there is no vacuum and I have listened carefully for man many months and JG's vision has certainly been obvious to me. And I love it.

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 04:05 PM

Psyclaw

AA

It is JG's huge strength that led Abbott to feel the need to gee up his mob viz: "she's not going to lay down and die".

He knows in his heart that she has turned out to be one of the gutsiest, unflappable, crap and abuse impervious, committed, single minded, mind on the job 100% PM we can remember.

She churns through his best efforts and continues to get the job done.

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 04:36 PM

Patriciawa

Psyclaw!  What an accurate and original description of our Prime Minister!   Yes, she is "the gutsiest,  most unflappable and crap and abuse impervious, committed, single minded, mind on the job l00% PM's" I can remember too.  And my memory goes back a long way!

Can I copy that description of yours and send it with attribution to Cafe Whispers where Miglo has a new thread up which is causing a lot of twittering and an avalanche of visitors and comments since it went up a couple of hours ago.

Better still why don't you post it yourself?  

cafewhispers.wordpress.com/.../

Patriciawa

June 10. 2012 05:11 PM

Psyclaw

Patticia

Thanks for your reply. of course you may post the description of the PM wherever you think it might "multiply" the effect.

Sounds like you should do it ASAP to take advantage of the current activity at Cafe whispers.

The spreading of true facts is so rare nowadays, isn't it.

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 05:14 PM

TalkTurkey

Remember she said when she first took the leadership, to Tony Abbortt she said, BRING * IT * ON! What did Tony make of that? He thought it would be a knock-down drag-out contest, all over Red Rover, go for broke, crash or crash through, well he has no idea of the long game: he does butterfly, she dog-paddles: he sprints, she jogs; he flails away blindly, she pokes him in the nose. I love it.

As Humpty Dumpty said: There's glory for you!

'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. 'They've a temper, some of them — particularly verbs: they're the proudest — adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs — however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 05:30 PM

Psyclaw

TT

I know it's not an original thought and many others share it but it is worth repeating over and over.

Abbott believed from day 17 after the 2010 election (the day the Indies dumped on him) that he would despatch JG in the very short term, weeks or maybe a couple of months at most.

In his wildest dreams he did not think she would be there at the end of 2011 let alone 2012 And he never imagined the legislative work that she would bring home, or that she could bring it home.

This is what's going to do him in ...... his manyana never came, and he was never ready for anything else but a quick ascension ...... not even an election was his hope, just the Indies giving him his rightful confidence of the House.

Pug, fool, over confident was he.

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 05:40 PM

Tom of Melbourne

“Leadership” is a relatively nebulous term, but a definition is likely to include-
•  Commitment to principle
•  Honesty
•  Articulation of direction

A reasonable assessment would place Gillard as a below average leader on these leadership characteristics.

She has shown nil commitment to principle, her honesty is demonstrably lacking and she is incapable of articulating a direction that resonates.

Gillard is a reasonably successful politician, which is entirely different to being a “Leader”

Tom of Melbourne

June 10. 2012 06:00 PM

Psyclaw

ToM

Your 3 criteria make up about 0.5% of the characteristics of leadership ..... cherry picked at that.

Here are a few more for you to rate our excellent PM on.

confidence
knowledge and skills
intelligent
has ability
listener and negotiator
a doer
compassionate
fair
people oriented
assertiveness
dedication
openness
sense of humour
decisiveness
courage
groundedness
communication skill
persistent
consistent
sense of responsibility
ambition
can-do attitude
communication skills
builds a good team
forward looking
result oriented


She is of course a far better leader than you have the courage to admit.



Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 06:02 PM

DMW

NK,
the most recent example of a failure of leadership that springs to mind is the handling of the Roy Hill/EMA saga.

DMW

June 10. 2012 06:05 PM

DMW

Hi Ad
I entirely missed the subliminal sales pitch for The Sweet Spot but strange as it may seem as I toddled around the traps today I was thinking it was time I bought the book and read it.

Eerie.

DMW

June 10. 2012 06:18 PM

42 long

ToM You make these claims but support the indefensible opportunistic exemplar of poor judgement who leads the LNP. How can I take any notice of what you say?
Her direction has been to acknowledge the serious issues and get legislation through when others would "duck" it or deny it. She has held a government together that most predicted could not be done. She owes NO ONE for her policies. She takes o the Miners the CLUBS Australia lobby BIG tobaco Alan Jones Rupert Murdoch, Most journo's, Hasn't embarrassed us overseas at all the BIG events the a Prime Minister has to attend ( Tony Must hate that) and has the support of her parliamentary party by a significant percentage. Abbott can't come near that with a margine of one vote ( Including slippers dare I say it TAINTED Vote and he SUCKS to all the powerful people that Julia takes on and who will have the power IF, IF. he ever gets in, because he OWES them. Also if a few things blow up with his sticky fingers all over them the party will suffer too for a long time. A week can be a long time in Politics. How long is it till the next election ?

42 long

June 10. 2012 06:31 PM

TalkTurkey

Psyclaw
Are you trying to educate ToM? Smile Rots o' ruck!

That word is manana btw with a ~ over the n but I forget how you do that.

But that won't help Tony Abbortt. His manana will never come.

www.youtube.com/watch

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 07:06 PM

Glorfindel

Hey Talk Turkey

>> Jeez Glorfie you'll for real give me SEVENS? <<

Not me mate, not at all. These guys will though. www.sportsbet.com.au/.../14-3668.html

$ 1.10 for the Coalition, $7.00 for Labour. So you know something they don’t right?  Funny that considering setting odds is their livelihood.

Hey 42 Long,

>> Have you ever voted labour? (I won't let on.) <<

Yep. Voted for em, worked for em etc. Hey a pissing competition how great. Just what we need more of.

>>  I also judge them by who they accept contributions from and who they associate with.<<

Fair enough that’s your prerogative. I doubt that most of the rest of the electorate shares your view (or the views of the TPS generally for that matter).

Hey "Bring it on" is what Bush said to the Iraqi's too - now didn't that turn out well.

Also in the Liberal's last leadership ballott Abbott was elected unopposed. That's streets ahead of Gillard.

Hey Ad Astra

>> You may think that Julia Gillard is a potential cancer, or a bridge with a crack <<

Not what I said. Is the art of the analogy lost on you ? Or do you just share you idols lack of commitment to honesty?

I’ll dumb down my point as much as I can for you. When there are strong indications that something bad will happen in the future it is often best to take immediate action rather than
“wait and see”.  A stitch in time saves nine etc.  It’s a no brainer.

>> My view is that Julia Gillard is the greatest strength the Federal Parliamentary Labor Party has.  There is no one who could do the job better. <<

That’s great. Currently the electorate has a different view. And at the end of the day your view will matter about as much as a fart in a thunderstorm.  

Oddly enough the last Labor PM was in fact doing the job a heck of a lot better. Reality is such an inconvenience isn't it. I can see why most of the TPS just gets by without it.

What criteria do you use to judge her by ? ? Remember when Roy and HG used to call the State of Origin. I recall once when they described the score along the lines of "Qld 32 NSW morally a mile in front 10"

Hey Psyclaw

>> It is JG's huge strength that led Abbott to feel the need to gee up his mob viz: "she's not going to lay down and die".<<

Maybe? . For somebody who wasn’t at the meeting you sure know a heck of a lot about Abbott’s intentions. Maybe he’s just trying to stop complacency setting into his side o things. Like a football captain that’s ahead by 50 points at half time will still try to rally his side.

As to the rest have you ever watched the “Brittas Empire”?


Glorfindel

June 10. 2012 07:33 PM

Psyclaw

After a discussion with Glorfindel a few days back which involved 4 or 5 "returns" I decided that an exchange of views developed from fact was impossible and I ceased the discourse.

Now in response to my mention of Abbott's gee up of his troops last week in which he was widely reported (and has not refuted) to have said that JG is not going to "lie down and die", Glorfindel lobs this fairy floss grenade at me "For somebody who wasn’t at the meeting you sure know a heck of a lot about Abbott’s intentions"

Deep! Cutting! Incisive!

Then he/she immediately goes on to describe his/her opinion that Abbott was perhaps "just trying to stop complacency setting in"

I wasn't there, says Glorfindel, therefore my conjecture is able to be sledged. Glorfindel also was not there, but magically he/she is entitled to conjecture about what was said/thought by Abbott.

Coalitionists and their apologists sure don't value consistency muchly!

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 07:45 PM

Psyclaw

TT

Thanks for the Marty Robbins clip. As a country music afficionado, it was, so to speak, music to my ear.

Here's one of my faves .... and it's pertinent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmjkiBcRIg0

Try this one, by my friend and Australia's top wordsmith (well on a par with Don Watson and Don Walker. Sorry, I don't know how to make the link "blue" so you'll have to copy and paste.

Do listen to all the words carefully ..... you will see a great similarity to the way you see the current situation. Especially the lines about the nightly news.

Let me know if the address fails. The song is "We Can Change the World". (there are other non Aussie songs by the same name).

Cheers

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 07:46 PM

Psyclaw

TT

Yipee! The link turned blue when I posted it.

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 08:20 PM

TalkTurkey

It's GREAT to hear people AT LAST saying upbeat things, at last they're giving us a Dog's chance, Geez up till now people have reminded me of that woman rower in the Olympics that just lay down in the rowing shell . . . Well sit up folks, seize your oar, you're in this!

Craig Emerson, on TV and on Twitter, is pointing the way for the Government to win . . . For other Government Members to pick up on . . . And he's doing it in style . . . But I see today he's learning about Twitter off Lyn, (as well he might), rather than the reverse, and it makes me quite sure that we are and have all along been out in front, that yes we have been right in being querulous about the Media and why the ALP has been pretty deaf and blind hitherto to what Emerson is now tapping into - and Boy is he getting some interest. Go Craig.

And *J*U*L*I*A* can knit,( I can't) and she can touch-type too ( I can't),(and I'd lay good odds that TA can't neither Smile ) Ohh 'course he'd have sheilas to do all that sort of stuff . . . It's not really the sort of thing a Man should have to do . . . But *J*U*L*I*A*s Mum told her, If a girl can type she can always get a job . . . which I think is unutterably sweet.

We're getting to you Abbortt. We're coming for you . . . You have Poligangrene . . .  You are beginning to rot even as you walk around. Those whom you have counted your friends are distancing themselves as you begin to stink . . . They are ashamed of you . . . They are increasingly ashamed of having followed you and Pyne thus far . . . and they have nowhere to go, and they are panicking by now, dreading the darkness in the hole they have dug for themselves . . . Dreading the next sitting of Parliament, our derision, our BENISONS, the exonerations of Slipper and Thomson . . . The ricochetted investigations into Brough and Jackson et al et al et al . . .  Oh yes Tony Abbortt just you wait . . .

In AFL terms, we're about 9 minutes into the third quarter.
The drum beat quickens. Emerson has said today: We will stand and fight. Too bloody right we will Comrades. A bas les batardes! We are winning every position except for the umpiring. Again - Emerson, yesterday, with that twerp on ABC, That's the way ya do it!. His colleagues will all get into it now, they have been holding back, this is THE chance and Dog knows It's Time!

That's the way to do it!

www.youtube.com/watch and Judy

Punch and Judy
(John Pole)

I am the showman, and on me back
I carry me actors in me pack -
A puppet showman, that's me, yours truly,
And the stars of my show are - Punch and Judy!
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella -
  Hump-back and hook-nose, he's a comical fella!

And the first comes up is old Punch hisself:
'Ladies and gents,' he says, 'here's your good health!'
He carries his big stick wherever he goes -
It's thick and strong and as long as his nose!
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella ...
  Big stick and long nose, symbolic old fella!

Next up comes Judy, Punch's old lady,
Saying,' I'm off out now, Punch, so mind the baby!'
'Oh no I won't,' says Punch: 'Yes you will,' says Judy,
'Cop hold o' your kid, my lad, none o' your old moody!'
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella ..
  Cock-sure but hen-pecked, pathetic old fella!

Kid keeps howling - old Punch, he thumps it -
It bawls - he belts it, into bed he dumps it ...
It cries - he calms it down - it bites his finger ...
Punch ups and bungs it through the blooming winder!
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella ..
  'That'll learn the bleeding brat to yell and beller!'

Here's Mrs Judy now come back again,
Not knowing Punch has done the nipper in -
'Where's baby, Punch?' she says, 'Gone, gone to sleep!' says he -
'Don't you know where your own son is? You make me weep,' says she..
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella ..
  'I threw it out the winder,' he has to tell her!

She cries her heart out: 'Where's my lil son gone?'
Says Punch, 'There's plenty more where that one come from!'
With a stick she bangs and beats him something lovely -
He gets it, clubs her, kills her, kicks her ugly ..
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella ..
  'Why keep a wife you hate if you can kill her?'

Up jumps a copper, all dressed in blue,
Saying , 'Mr Punch, I am arresting you,
I've got a warrant to take you up for what you done -'
'And I've got a warrant,' says Punch, 'to knock you down!'
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella ..
  Kicking him arse over head straight down the cellar.

The law soon catches him again and in a while
Before Judge Black-Cap he's standing trial:
'Killed wife and child?' he says, 'you guilty wretch!
Take Punch away and hang him, Mr Ketch!'
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella ...
  'Hang 'em all, but don't hang me!' he cries in terror.

'See this-here noose'' says Jack, 'Poke your head through.'
Old Punch lets on he dunno what to do ?
'In here, Mr Ketch?' he says, 'Or p'raps in there?'
'Hang about,' the hangman says, 'I'll show you where..'
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella ...
  Stringing up the hangman, he's a swinging old fella!

'Jack Ketch is dead,' he cries, 'hoorah, hooray, I'm free -
Don't care if the Devil hisself should come and call on me!
Jack Ketch is dead,' he says, 'Old Punch'll do them all!' -
Up pops Old Nick hisself - tail, horns and hooves and all!
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella ..
  'Hang about, I'm your best friend, we're birds of a feather!'

The Devil darts at Punch but he ain't having it -
Nick gets hisself a stick but Punch keeps grabbing it -
He aims a mighty swipe at Satan's nut an' -
The Devil's out for the count, as dead as mutton..
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella ..
  He's beat the Devil hisself, heroic old fella!

The show is over now, me dolls need mending,
But Punch and Punch's play are never-ending -
In every soul alive there's a Punch and a Judy,
In you and you, sir, you, ma'am, too, and me, yours truly!
  'That's the way to do it,' says Punchinella ..
  The Punch and Judy game goes on forever!

Copyright John Pole 1971


In many versions of P&J there is oddly enough a crocodile too.

But anyway "That's the way to do it!" Go Emmo.
    

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 09:14 PM

NormanK

Psyclaw

BlogEngine converts addresses into links when you save a comment. It also does it during Preview.
Preview is your friend. Smile
You can switch between Preview and Comment (edit) as many times as you like before saving a comment.

NormanK

June 10. 2012 09:26 PM

NormanK

DMW

the most recent example of a failure of leadership that springs to mind is the handling of the Roy Hill/EMA saga.

Failure of leadership or poor political skills or gamesmanship on the part of Howes & Co or bad service of the ministers by staff or .....
Perhaps you have a better understanding of just what transpired than I do. The best explanation that I have found to date comes from one of your favourite journalists, Jack Waterford.

Staff should take fall for PM
by Jack Waterford     SMH

Julia Gillard was ill-served by her advisers over the decision to allow Gina Rinehart to import 1700 foreign workers to help quarry her iron ore. Indeed the whole affair suggests that there is something seriously wrong in her office, and with the ministerial office system generally.
*****
Gillard's instant prevarication when challenged about the decision on Friday suggests she believed herself ambushed, and by Bowen. By now, both have their lines straight, but a certain belligerence in Bowen and steeliness in Gillard suggests that the matter is not regarded as mere misunderstanding, to be laughed off, and that Gillard is still very angry and wounded. No doubt there are juicy details yet to emerge.

www.smh.com.au/.../...l-for-pm-20120529-1zh4w.html

Mr Waterford tends not to gild the lily so until I find a better source I think I'll go with his version rather than any of the lily-gilders who try to beat up a storm in every teacup that they come across.

NormanK

June 10. 2012 10:05 PM

Psyclaw

NormanK

Thanks for your advice about preview. Henceforth I'll discipline myself to its use.
PS Have just used preview ... very helpful way to check the comment.



PatriciaWA

I read your copy and paste in Cafe Whispers. Thanks.

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 10:47 PM

Tom of Melbourne

42 long - ” ToM You make these claims but support the indefensible opportunistic exemplar of poor judgement who leads the LNP.”

Now that is simply not true, and you’ll either have to show a link to prove this or be proven to be someone who just makes stuff up.  That’s a characteristic of a barracker – to seek to compartmentalise and to assign (incorrect) opinions to people.

------------------------------------
Psyclaw, your list is largely irrelevant to “Leadership” it ahs more to do with “ambition”, most of them could equally apply to dedicated followers. The characteristics I outlined are required rather than optional ones.

Gillard has proven herself to lack the essential ingredients of “Leadership”, and while some might enjoy providing airbrushed photographs from the Women’s Weekly, the reality is quite different.

resources0.news.com.au/.../...amp-039-s-weekly.jpg

Tom of Melbourne

June 10. 2012 10:59 PM

Psyclaw

ToM

Your ignorance is on display.

I went to a number of original social psychology research reports to develop the list.

The characteristics I have listed are widely accepted in the literature as essential elements of leadership.

And despite your quick draw and usually shallow criticisms of JG every opportunity you get, the vast majority of the characteristics I listed she holds in abundance.

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 11:00 PM

TalkTurkey

Sorry to ask but
Does anyone know when the next "Poll" is out?
What's the betting, whenever?

BTW Glorfie's right, Sportsbet has us at SEVENS! I think I might do that what I said, but it won't be the same as taking it off the Golden-Haired One himself, so the Zoo won't do so well.

SEVENS! Is that HUBRIS or what!

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 11:08 PM

Psyclaw

TT
Have you had time to watch that link yet?

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 11:12 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Psyclaw, the ability to get people on board with your “vision” is universally regarded as the essential component of “Leadership”. Without this there is nothing to lead.

Gillard has failed on the essential ingredient, and history shows that she lacks political honesty as well.

Regardless of whether you and others think she is photogenic, she’s ineffective as a ”Leader”.

Tom of Melbourne

June 10. 2012 11:29 PM

Psyclaw

ToM

the ability to get people on board with your “vision” is universally regarded as the essential component of “Leadership”

Purleeze ToM!!!!!!!!! ...... stop making it up as you go.

Why didn't you include this one at the top of your original list at 5.40pm if it is universally regarded

And on what basis do you claim (make it up!) that it is indeed universally regarded

I said at 10.59pm that your ignorance was on display. To that I can now add that your illogicality, inconsistency, and make-it-up-as-you-go fraud are also on display to all the contributors and visitors to the TPS.

Really, one's reputation as an honest, straight talker is one of the most valuable assets a person has ...... "my word is my bond" . You have shredded your's.

Psyclaw

June 10. 2012 11:41 PM

DMW

NormanK,
Waterford's article was one of the better on the saga if only because of his deep understanding of the operations and shenanigans in the variously named departments of immigration over many years.

There are many 'failures' in this episode down to many people but as leader of the government the Prime Minister has to accept, as a US President is reputed to have put it The buck stops here.

No matter that she felt 'ambushed' on her arrival home (and that raises questions of how she allowed herself to be ambushed) a leader has to present a face of being in control and aware of what her team is up to. Something along the lines of 'praise publicly, punish privately' comes to mind as a way of handling the situation then.

A leader needs to be aware of the weaknesses in their team and be alert to the possibilities for friction and 'upsetting the applecart'. It appears that the PM dropped the ball on this one as it must have been as obvious as the proverbial nose on a face for the potential frictions and applecart tipping with this.

What is of more interest to me is there is common thread among many of frictions and mishandlings of various government actions and announcements. I am coming more to the view that there is a very 'weak link' in this team.

This 'weak link' wields a lot of power and has had their hands on many of the changes, disruptions and problems that have beset both the Rudd and Gillard administrations.

DMW

June 10. 2012 11:47 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Just to explain some “words” to you, [i}”the ability to get people on board with your “vision”[/i] is similar to saying ”Articulation of direction”

Gillard cannot articulate a direction… she cannot get people on board with her vision… she does not articulate a coherent policy framework that the electorate willingly migrates to; therefore she’s an inadequate leader.

But don’t blame me, it’s her own fault.

Tom of Melbourne

June 10. 2012 11:56 PM

TalkTurkey

Psyclaw,
Yes I checked it out, it so reminded me of a fellow named Freddie Hampton whose original songs delighted me in 1972!!! and I knew he had died in the meantime, having made a long soundtrack called To Find A Meaning in the days when I knew him. I actually put $500 into its production but it went nowhere. Well tonight I looked up the bloke who worked with him, he has an unusual name and I found him in the phone book straight away, he lives in the Adelaide Hills, he has the tape, and I'm going to hear it any day soon!

So Yes, I heard the song, thank you!

TalkTurkey

June 10. 2012 11:57 PM

Psyclaw

DMW

Rudd prided himself on having youthful advisors. This I think was his weak link. He deprived himself of the "corporate" wisdom available from advisors with greyer hair.

This was never more obvious than when Lachlan Harris decided to withold from Rudd the party polling which showed that JG would swamp him ..... hence his absolute surprise on the day of the vote and his overheard and broadcast crestfallen comment as he walked down the passage afterwards ... "how did this happen?"

On another aspect, the accepted rule is that when faced with two evils one should choose the lesser. For example, I am sure JG knows well that Mr Bowen is antagonistic to her but it is her judgement that to shaft him would create more difficulties than managing him on the few occasions he throws up a grenade to her.

This is her choice, and as KR used say all the time "guess what?"........ we won't know whether her judgements are correct or not until late 2013.

Personally, I think her choices will cumulatively prove to be correct.

Psyclaw

June 11. 2012 01:33 AM

DMW

Hi Psyclaw
re Bowen I wrote 'praise publicly, punish privately' which was not a suggestion that Bowen (or others) should be shafted however a reasonable assumption would be that he (and others) copped a fair tongue lashing (a form of punishment?) in relative privacy.

Where the 'failure' comes in is the appearance that the PM was prepared to back down and/or revisit the whole thing. A perception was reinforced that she is controlled if not by the faceless men at least by those goddamned union thugs.

The comprehensive list of leadership attributes you gave earlier is good stuff and excuse me for cherry picking builds a good team  and pointing out that the EMA saga shows that the team has some problems and illustrates an element of failure.

I don't think that failure is all bad. Often it offers opportunity and a good leader is able to turn failure into opportunity. Unfortunately in this case the team stumbled through to what appears to be a compromise.

Think back to Keating and his (in)famous banana republic comment which many said at the time was something a treasurer should never have said (failure) the stock markets tumbled all hell seemed to break loose (even more failure).

Hawke and Keating seized the opportunity to change the discussion and moved the country toward economic reform.

I still think that comment was very deliberate and made in full awareness that havoc would ensue but that is another story.

DMW

June 11. 2012 07:51 AM

Psyclaw

From TT @ 6.31pm, June 10

Psyclaw
Are you trying to educate ToM?  Rots o' ruck!


TT, I now see the error of my ways. ToM moves the goalposts on every reply. Never a logically argued rebuttal; always a slight movement of the goalposts, every bloody reply.

I'd like to see him up against Justice Frick, Ms Jackson's no-nonsense judicial nemesis.  Incidentally as I write these words I am struck by the similarity between ToM's debating skills and KJ's self justification skills....... very malleable both.

I'd hate to have been a kid chasing him in a game of "tips'" or "tally ho" (did SA kids play those games when you were one?) ....... his dodging and weaving skills are so very well developed that he has obviously been practising them since childhood.

Psyclaw

June 11. 2012 08:13 AM

2353

Morning all,

DMW is right - there is something in the water at Fairfax -> www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120610-204bq.html.

TT @ 1:16 - Heartily agree.  Have a great day off Lyn.

And on a Public Holiday Monday -

to our Trolls -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz2jbCJXkpA.  (Thanks for whoever posted this - I intend to flog it to death rather than get involved in internet wars.)

The Gillard feature in the Courier Mail reported that Gillard's plan (with the acknowledged assistance of some proud independents) was to do the heavy lifting in the first two years of her term - you would imagine with the implementation following in year 3.  If you think about the changes in the past 18 months - Gillard is running to timetable.

For the rest of us -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p22BfALgJpw

2353

June 11. 2012 08:25 AM

Lyn

Hi Tallk Turkey

Re your post @ 11pm last  night, I don't think anybody answered you.

I collected these couple of comments for you, hope you will be wiser but more likey none the wiser:-

IndependentAustralia‏@independentaus
'The coming Newspoll Coalition miracle', great insight from Bob Ellis, exclusively on IA:

Peter Brent‏@mumbletwits
jdkurucz Newspoll usually doesn't poll on long weekends; certainly not Easter. Bob's imagining things.

Agnes Mack‏@AgnessMack
mumbletwits Maybe, but it would be a bit suss if Newspoll abandoned its usual not on long weekends habit.

Marian Rumens‏@mrumens
independentaus If coalition gets a boost in next Newspoll then I'd say Newspoll is a tainted poll #auspol

Queen's Birthday Honours
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../gallery-e6frg6n6-1226390424282

SmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 11. 2012 08:27 AM

Glorfindel

Hey Psyclaw,

Yep it's absolutely conjecture on my part you nailed in in one.

The difference is that I'm not pretending it's anything else.

Like that bit where I've used "maybe" well I'll give ya a heads up. Maybe according to dictionary.com has a meaning along the lines or perhaps or possibly.

Um that should be a bit of a give-away. Maybe a person should also read all of the words carefully. Of course you don't have to you can go off half-cocked any time you like.

Pretty much all of the TPS is into conjecture. Even me from time to time. The difference is I'm not dumb enough to pretend my conjecture is anything but.

You want to sledge my conjecture fine. I've noticed though you haven't bothered and just basically gone straight for ad hominem arguments. Always a good sign that.

My point was that, unless you were there (or have some other "inside" knowledge), you can't say with any certainty what Abbott was trying to achieve. There are alternatives theories which also fit the phrase he used. As Holmes pointed out one should guard against the alternative.

You've presented one possible alternative as a fait accompli without establishing any basis for doing so.

PS You ceased the discourse when I kept pointing out facts that were at odds with your point of view. Which is fair enough but again let's not pretend it's anything else.

PPS If you reckon views like mine are restricted to coalitionists or their supporters then you really, really, really, really, really, really, really need to get out more.

Glorfindel

June 11. 2012 08:29 AM

Lyn

Hi Talk Turkey

Sorry the link for Bob Ellis Independent Australia:-

www.independentaustralia.net/.../

Lyn

June 11. 2012 08:43 AM

Lyn

Hi Talk Turkey and 2353


Thankyou 2353 for you good wishes, I am going now.

Talk Turkey thankyou for your kind comments to me @ 1.16pm you are always appreciative. SmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 11. 2012 09:24 AM

Psyclaw

2353

Great youtube clip. Such fun!

I think the little orange monkey and some of his friends visit TPS. I'll point and you whistle ........

But would they understand what the monkey is telling them?????

Psyclaw

June 11. 2012 09:29 AM

Psyclaw

2353 @8.13 am

I do hope there's the water of fair, analytical insight being infused into the Fairfax water coolers.

But since this article is by straight shooter Ross Gittins, I'm not convinced (yet).

Psyclaw

June 11. 2012 09:38 AM

Psyclaw

Here is a classic eg of Abbottesque logic and consistency.

(1)It's absolutely conjecture on my part

(2)I kept pointing out facts

See how easy it is to hold two contradictory positions at the same time if your an Abbotteer.

Psyclaw

June 11. 2012 09:40 AM

TalkTurkey

Ross Gittins said

If you accept, as you should, the figures are roughly right - especially viewed over a run of months or quarters - you have to ask how our perceptions of the economy have got so far astray from statistical reality.

Read more: www.smh.com.au/.../...st-again-20120610-204bq.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ALL the 'Economists' thought the BISONS were going to be BEARS! Instead the BISONS have evolved into BENISONS!
Beautiful EXTRAORDINARY NONPAREIL Inspirational Sets Of Numbers!

Well Ad astra, thee'n'me are pretty rare birds predicting good outcomes for Labor politically too . . . I'm so glad we are as one re that, otherwise I'd think I was delusional, truly, but it's the Media who are delusional, AND Sportsbet giving us SEVENS !!! (thank you Glorfie for the heads-up!). But we have been right haven't we, AND onthe basis of logical and as it transpires correct reasoning . . .

I don't exactly mean to crow here (Go the Crows!) but rather to say, Come on Bloggers All, buck up, have a little faith, have Aa and TT ever been wrong?* We'll all feel better, and nothing makes you feel better like feeling better! Well I feel better looking at those BENISONs anyway, and knowing those clever 'economists' were ALL wrong makes us even more certain that we few are the ones in step while all the Media militia are out of step.  

*I have been, importantly, twice, since 2007. As with Darryl Melham I didn't believe *J*U*L*I*A* was going to challenge Rudd - well it was super-secret and sudden after all - and I didn't believe that Rudd would really challenge back in February - but that was because the Media kept vital information about Rudd's perfidy from us, and because I could see he wold have to be being delusionalto think he could win. (And so it proved! I did confidently predict the outcome, though Jason Obelix was a couple closer on the final vote, I still owe him a beer.)  But the trajectory of the Gillard v Abbortt fortunes, notwithstanding the roundabouts and swings, I am proud and glad to have been basically right, because it means we WILL win. And Abborttianism WILL fail, and it will be fun to be part of the Great Dismemberment.

(Abbortt Remember the Ides of September . . .
You won't be the LOTO halfway through December)

Can't wait for the bare-fist brawls in Parliament and Media from now on. Abbortco ain't seen nothin yet.

Smile VENCEREMOS! Smile

TalkTurkey

June 11. 2012 10:18 AM

TalkTurkey

Psyclaw quoted TT

Are you trying to educate ToM?  Rots o' ruck!


Then Psyclaw commented

TT, I now see the error of my ways. ToM moves the goalposts on every reply. Never a logically argued rebuttal; always a slight movement of the goalposts, every bloody reply.

Gee Psyclaw, my heart goes out to you, truly. You have never realised the Great Political Truth, ALL the Right is like that, not most, ALL. By their company they define themselves. I only EVER treat trolls with the contempt and derision they so richly merit, they are essentially ill-willed, and as a general rule show it very quickly. They are usually barely literate and, especially, illogical; utterly shamelessly hypocritical, slithering from unsubstantiated claim to dopey hypothetical to outrageous distortion to nonsequitur (and so on) always with sneers and refusal ever to admit any point of argument, shifting the goalposts as you put it, yes. All of which is what I meant by Rots of ruck. What I mean is why bother.

I have made a practice of answering them just once to let them know I won't be playing their game, after which if I refer to them at all it's only in the third person,obliquely, disparagingly and for fun. They LOVE that! Not.

Thanks 2353, yes I saw this a day or so ago, wonderful!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz2jbCJXkpA

Here's another little ditty for trolls!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scXxt6QOyHA

She's got a nice voice eh. I think the song is quite cute actually.
    

TalkTurkey

June 11. 2012 10:35 AM

DMW

Morning 2353,
suspect in the case of Mr Gittins, he often being a contrary bu@@er, the water wouldn't have affected him or more likely he filters before drinking Smile

The Clever Pie video was bought to our attention by Stephen Fry. Mr Fry, who has own wicked sense of humour, also has a good eye for brilliance and tweethearts benefit from following him.

DMW

June 11. 2012 10:40 AM

DMW

A thought on leadership

Philosopher Quotes ‏@PhilosophersSay
He who cannot be a good follower cannot be a good leader. ~Aristotle

DMW

June 11. 2012 10:52 AM

Psyclaw


TT

I Iike this clip of LA....it's great to see her actually performing.

Guess you know that the song is directed to GWB


www.youtube.com/watch

Psyclaw

June 11. 2012 11:24 AM

DMW

I'll put it down to it being a public holiday rather than 'something in the water' but my twitter feed has some very deep and meaningless on it today

david ewart ‏@davidbewart
you are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to have it regarded as established fact needing no support evidence or justification.

jon kudelka ‏@jonkudelka
It was very thoughtful of the Queen to be born on a Monday every year. You'd never see a president doing that.

@TheFlashpacker: Which Queen's birthday are we supposed to be celebrating today?
maureen ‏@maur_j Ive been playing Bohemian Rhapsody all day?

AshGhebranious ‏@AshGhebranious
Okay! I got a solution for the who's Queen is she thing. I say the team that wins the ashes gets to keep the monarchy at their place

Troy Bramston ‏@TroyBramston
PJK on gongs: Why would I let my life be trivialised by some trumped-up committee who think that they can pass judgement on what I achieved?

Mixed in with some history
Canberra Insider ‏@CanberraInsider
Passed during the Whitlam Government, Australia's Racial Discrimination Act was enacted on this day in 1975

Canberra Insider ‏@CanberraInsider
Newspapermen Frank Browne and Raymond Fitzpatrick were charged in the HoR with breaching parliamentary privilege on this day in 1955

Canberra Insider ‏@CanberraInsider
In the only such case in the 20th century, Browne and Fitzpatrick served three months in gaol on the order of Menzies Cabinet

Andrew Catsaras ‏@AndrewCatsaras
Re #Mabo I recall the ignorant bellow "Land Rights for Gay Whales" from the ignorant bellowers, whenever anyone stood up against injustice.

Andrew Catsaras ‏@AndrewCatsaras
Re #Mabo I also recall the disgraceful & rampant scaremongering that there would be land claims over every homeowner's backyard.

Run Geek Run ‏@geeksrulz
20 years ago #MABO decision was going to end mining, farming & take backyards. 20 years on Australia is first among OECD economies

and also some current stuff of interest
Carol Ahern ‏@minkel2012
Tony Abbott won't repeal carbon tax - Julia Gillard http://shar.es/snjLC via @sharethis

National Times ‏@NationalTimesAU
As tabloid TV stoops lower still, Labor is being urged to take on the press, writes Katharine Murphy www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120610-2041c.html

DMW

June 11. 2012 11:35 AM

Min

DMW, thank you for the mention.  Carol aka Min of Café Whispers. Smile

I hope that everyone residing in the States where this holiday is held are enjoying a relaxing and refreshing day.

Min

June 11. 2012 11:35 AM

TalkTurkey

*J*U*L*I*A*

Please Dear and Fearless Leader

Do wear a nice simple modest necklace tonight on Q&A OK?
Not just to please da Turkey . . .

We all like to see you looking at your best  . . .
because you're pretty of course
but because it is even more about votes
and for you Madam Prime Minister,
just looking good is a political act!

Tell your makeup person:

Not too much rouge.

No shine on your cheekbones.

Hair a bit *softened*?

(Your lipstick and eye makeup are always nice.)

I want 2 billion women saying Ohhh doesn't she look nice tonight!
and all the fellas however grudgingly and obliquely
(if not openly and outrightly)
admiring her too
because it is all a part of our winning the next election.

We have the best-looking PM in the world
as well as the shrewdest toughest smartest one.
With a beautiful unaffected smile. Kiss

And Q&A isn't about Wormtongue Jones *J*U*L*I*A*:
if he is at all disrespectful - well, I guess you'll know what to do.

Just don't be too polite, he isn't.
Go straight through him.
We know you can.
You are the best at it in Parliament!
(Penny is terrific too!)

Craig Emerson earnt a lot of respect the other day,
paying out that impertinent young moronic interviewer,
and simultaneously the ABC generally!

Don't forget the necklace though Madam Prime Minister.  

TalkTurkey

June 11. 2012 11:48 AM

TalkTurkey

Psyclaw

No I didn't realise that specifically about GWB ta

GWB thought Bruce Springsteen singing Born in the USA was mindless flag waving Old Glory when in fact it was the most acerbic condemnation of US foreign policy - isn't that right?

And Springsteen set him staight in no uncertain fashion yeah?

But anyway #*ck GWB and the whole crew! Smile

Great clip!

TalkTurkey

June 11. 2012 11:51 AM

DMW

Hi Min
is it a good, or not so good thing, that your mention was for current stuff and not for the deep and meaningless Tong

DMW

June 11. 2012 12:07 PM

Glorfindel

Hey Psyclaw,

Are you actually being serious or is this an attempt at humour ? I really can’t make up my mind. The tone of your comment reads like you are being serious, yet the content is outright farce.

I’ll assume that you are being serious.

>> It's absolutely conjecture on my part<<

You might not have noticed this with your razor keen eye and all but I was referring to a specific statement that I had made. You know the one where you were all confused as to what “maybe” might mean.

Even then as I said I made it very clear that it was conjecture in the first place, as confusing to you as that might be.  

>> I kept pointing out facts <<

Again this refers to a specific context of our previous discussions.

Firstly what you are doing here is quote mining. It’s kinda a logical fallacy. Fundamentally dishonesty. Is it a case of it’s easy to be dishonest if you’re a Gillardeer? And I despise dishonesty so if you’re a sensitive soul please stop reading.

Secondly you can actually use both fact and conjecture in the same discussion. You’ve done it yourself. It is a fact that Abbott said of Gillard that she won’t lie down and die. That's on the record we can all agree to that.

However in an earlier comment you’ve followed that up with what Abbott “knows in his heart” so either

a) You are a very close confidant of Tony Abbott such that he reveals to you what he knows in his heart

Or

b)What he "knows in his heart" is pure conjecture on your part.

I reckon it’s “b” myself. You’ve used a factual statement to base conjecture upon. (not for the first time either)

Golly gee whiz genius maybe it’s possible to do encompass fact and conjecture in the same discussion.

So you’ve dishonestly lifted quotes out of context to demonstrate that by your standards you're earlier comments were contradictory in nature.

That’s absolutely brilliant.

Your problem seems to me to be that you consider your conjecture to be "fact".

Lastly I’m no fan of Abbott. I would have thought that any idiot could have worked that out by now. But then you might be showing us that you’re not just any idiot. Certainly you appear to be one with comprehension and short term memory problems.

Some 31 sitting members of the party voted for Rudd at the last leadership spill. Or to put it another way they voted against Gillard. Hmmm they took a position against Gillard I guess that makes them conservative Abbotteer’s in your crazy little world view then does it?  Albo spoke out strongly is support of Rudd over Gillard another Abbotter is he?

Or can your little brain wrap itself around the possibility that you can be no fan of either Gillard or Abbott. Considering what the polling shows I'd say that I'm not alone in this regard.

Earlier I expressed some thanks because you appeared to put some thought into a reply. Now I’m trying my very best to express contemptuous disdain both at the lack of thought and the dishonesty.  I thought I better spell that out for you just in case your written comprehension skills fail yet again.

PS Any time you actually want to put a bit of coherent thought into the discussion I'm "all ears"

Glorfindel

June 11. 2012 01:42 PM

Psyclaw

TT
Yep, if you carefully listen to the words you'll see they fit GWB to a tee. I've heard/seen LA interviewed and she said that GWB was the target .

Psyclaw

June 11. 2012 01:45 PM

42 long

Glad we don't get too many posts like that Glor. "Mud thrown is ground lost". Getting real personal doesn't add much to solving anything and you get all worked up and unhappy, and that's not good for anybody.

42 long

June 11. 2012 01:53 PM

TalkTurkey

Glorfintroll said
. . . I'm "all ears"

So Psyclaw, you see what I mean?
Glorfintroll's brain's the size of a bean!
Look amongst that gold hair,
They ain't nuffink there!
Just "all ears" with nuffink between!

Fun * With * Trolls

I'd have more fun if they ever could manage to come back with anything half witty . . . Smile

But the Right don't do wit, it takes a brain not a bean to even understand wit eh let alone create it. I bet Glorfintroll isn't even smiling as you read this Psyclaw, I'd hazard a guess you are though. I am! Smile See?

Zere shall be no smilink in der ranks!

TalkTurkey

June 11. 2012 02:26 PM

paul walter

I've never read an analysis I've been in such agreement with before this one.
Reckless, bloody-minded, dog in the manger.
Impervious of the consequences of his decisions and behaviours upon others. As the death of Bernie Banton demonstrated, completely devoid of any concept of how an adult reacts to a tragic human event.

paul walter

June 11. 2012 02:33 PM

paul walter

And yes, wasn't it good to sip of the Last of the Summer Wine, the Ross Gittins article and regret the more deeply, what society will miss when it has finally wiped the last vestiges of reality based broadsheet journalism.

paul walter

June 11. 2012 03:22 PM

Glorfindel

Hey 42 Long,

Actually i couldn't agree more. But dishonesty bugs me like just about nothing else on earth and there are times when you gotta vent your spleen.  

And hey if people want a serious discussion on the issues at hand that's fine with me. But I've never suffered fools gladly. It's a character weakness of mine. One I'll work on later mind you.


Hey Talk Turkey

>> I have made a practice of answering them just once to let them know I won't be playing their game, after which if I refer to them at all it's only in the third person,obliquely, disparagingly and for fun.  <<

When you develop enough courage to tackle these things head on be kind enough to let me know.

>> I bet Glorfintroll isn't even smiling as you read this Psyclaw, I'd hazard a guess you are though.  <<

Well you might lose  that bet, it depends does laughing count?  I thought “all ears” was a phrase any idiot could understand. Guess that should be almost any idiot. Why don’t you find a grown up kind enough to explain it to you? Whoever normally reads big words for you should do.

As to wit please I hope you're not trying to fool us all that you're a wit.

Although you are half-way there I'll give you that.  

Glorfindel

June 11. 2012 04:31 PM

Cuppa

Paul Walter wrote:

As the death of Bernie Banton demonstrated, completely devoid of any concept of how an adult reacts to a tragic human event.

Abbott has made a kind of inverse artform of inappropriate remarks at people's death.

On the passing of Margaret Whitlam, he said, There was a lot wrong with the Whitlam government.

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg6nf-1226302389911


On the death of asylum seekers at sea he said, Well that was one boat that did get stopped, wasn't it.
www.telegraph.co.uk/.../...teless-cruise-joke.html

The man is a fool with a big uncontrolled mouth.

Cuppa

June 11. 2012 04:34 PM

2353

It seems that most LNP Premiers have declined to attend a two day economic workshop in Brisbane over the next two days.  Interesting that they all want to comment on the Australian economy, yet they won't turn up  to talk to the Feds , miners and academics and "impart their wisdom" in an appropriate forum.

How can we take any of their views seriously when the choose not to be part of the discussion?  The tactic reminds me of the LOTO in regard to the Climate Change taskforce - may the Premiers also be marginalised as a result.

2353

June 11. 2012 04:37 PM

Psyclaw

TT

You know this pattern I'm sure:

"I'm not a racist. In fact some of my  best friends are Asian .......... but (here follows a redneck racist comment)"

and

"I've got nothing against gays, in fact some of my best friends are gay ........but (here follows a redneck homophobe comment)"

or

"I'm no fan of Abbott, in fact some of my best friends hate Abbott ........ but (here follows a character asassination of JG)"

In the present political climate it is IMHO not logically possible to bore in on any of JG's populist perceived weaknesses and then claim to be not a fan of Abbott.

The logic goes thus:

(1) If one joins the populist attack dog approach to try to dethrone JG, then one is in fact a populist attack dog against JG

(2) If one argues that JG be dethroned, then their argument falls into line with Abbott's.

(3) If one's argument falls into line with Abbott's, then one is arguing for Abbott to be PM.

(4) If one is arguing for Abbott to be PM then regardless of their fatuous protestations, they are a fan of Abbott.

(5) If one is a fan of Abbott, then one is a fan of dogma, ideologuery, winning at all costs, wrecking long held conventions, pugilism, dishonesty, mistruths, half truths, tell'em what they want to hear, doomsaying, naysaying, self interest, etc etc.

(6) If one is a fan of the features I listed in (5) then one is either deaf, blind, unintelligent, from another planet, gullible and conned, or a mere fool.

Psyclaw

June 11. 2012 05:08 PM

Glorfindel

Hey Psyclaw,

Senior government minister Anthony Albanese will support Kevin Rudd in Monday’s ballot for the leadership of the Labor Party.
‘‘In politics, as in life, you cannot just consider the past. Our future prospects would be stronger under Kevin Rudd,’’ Mr Albanese, the Transport Minister and the Government’s chief tactician in Parliament, said. ......

....Labor had a good story to tell, Mr Albanese said, but he had formed the view that Kevin Rudd had a better chance as leader to win the next election.

www.smh.com.au/.../...ind-rudd-20120225-1tut1.html

So Albo was trying to dethrone JG he must be a fan of Abbott's etc etc. Quick email points 2 - 6 to him.

But what about if you are no fan of Abbott at all and in fact you'd like him to lose the next election.

So let's consider this little hypothetical

1) Rudd has a much better chance of beating Abbott at the next election than Gillard.

2) If you support Rudd you support Labor having a better chance of winning the next elecion

3) Therefore if you support Gillard you support Labor having a better chance of loosing the next election.

4) If Labor loses the next election Abbott will be PM

5) therefore if you support Gillard you support Abbott being PM after the next election.


These little hypothetical games are fun aren't they? Pity they don't chance reality one iota. But it's a hoot I can see why you like it so much.

Whoops I can see some bees flying around in my garden, I'll just have to pop out and tell them to fall from the sky as theory demands they do.

But I doubt reality will take any notice of me......


Hey 2353,

Yeah I notice Can-Do Cambpell Newman is "too busy" to attend. Funny the conservatives often whine that the economy is the be-all and end-all. (At least they used to when Howard was around). Now if that's the case how on earth can you be to busy to attend an economic forum.

Maybe they're trying to avoid been seen as supporters of the federal govt's economic record ? ?

Glorfindel

June 11. 2012 05:35 PM

Jason

Glorfindel,
          Have you run out of Anna Bligh stories today?

Jason

June 11. 2012 06:07 PM

TalkTurkey

Gormlesstroll said

I thought “all ears” was a phrase any idiot could understand.

He'd know I guess, but Yes I'm no idiot.

I just have

*F*U*N* with Trolls



Cuppa
'Shit happens' too.

TalkTurkey

June 11. 2012 06:44 PM

Cuppa

When you've got a sort of a rabid dog like Abbott, it compounds things. ~Independent MP Tony Windsor, May 6

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn72xczz-1226381985420

Cuppa

June 11. 2012 07:09 PM

Tom of Melbourne

When the name calling starts (“troll” etc), any debate is over, calling someone a “troll” is just another way of saying, “I surrender, you’ve won”

Tom of Melbourne

June 11. 2012 07:12 PM

Glorfindel

Hey Talk Turkey,

Yeah idiot would clearly be a step up for you.  A goal you can set your little heart to attaining if you try.

Nice to know you’re having fun though. Kinda like a baby playing with a iPhone, sure they don’t understand what it is or what it does or how to work it but gee they can have fun. I’m just picturing the smile on your little face.  Don’t worry the grown-ups always find it fun too.

Hey Jason,

Have you run out of relevant comments today ?
Or do you just have difficulty understanding this whole  relevance thing?  In a blog about politics does me discussing a (former) politician  somehow confuse you? ;)

Glorfindel

June 11. 2012 07:19 PM

DMW

ToM
When the name calling starts (“troll” etc), any debate is over ...
is that a variation on Godwin's Law?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

DMW

June 11. 2012 07:24 PM

Psyclaw


Consider these two propositions:

(1) If one joins the populist attack dog approach to try to dethrone JG, then one is in fact a populist attack dog against JG

and

2) Rudd has a much better chance of beating Abbott at the next election than Gillard.

Which one is a fact and which one is conjecture?

Which one is an absolute and which one is a mere comparative?

Which one is written by a supporter of JG?

Which one is written by a supporter of the ALP?

Don't forget to see the classy ranga on QandA in 135 minutes from now!

Dont' hold your breath to see the great pretender on QandA anytime soon!




And for the edification of anyone who is interested:

A false premise is an incorrect proposition that forms the basis of a logical argument.

A false premise can also be a premise that is poorly or incompletely defined so as to make the conclusion questionable. The following joke from Plato and a Platypus Walk Into a Bar illustrates the point:

    "An old cowboy goes into a bar and orders a drink. As he sits there sipping his whiskey, a young lady sits down next to him. ... She says, 'I'm a lesbian. I spend my whole day thinking about women. ...' A little while later, a couple sits down next to the old cowboy and asks him, 'Are you a real cowboy?' He replies, 'I always thought I was, but I just found out I'm a lesbian.'"

Psyclaw

June 11. 2012 07:30 PM

Psyclaw

DMW

A quote from your link, often pertinent to right wingers and rightwhingers. I recall seeing this strategy used at TPS twice today in fact.

While falling afoul of Godwin's law tends to cause the individual making the comparison to lose their argument or credibility, Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.

Psyclaw

June 11. 2012 07:51 PM

Tom of Melbourne

That’s interesting MDW.

I’d observe that “troll” probably mainly gets used on sites where there is a prevailing pro ALP government sentiment,  those who provide an alternative perspective (even if not specifically conservative) are quickly called “trolls”.

The following are examples of comments that are apparently “trolling”, even though they’re legitimate, and not specifically partisan, political opinions-

•  Craig Thomson has a case to answer
•  It’s a “carbon tax
•  Gillard isn’t a particularly good “Leader”

Once the “troll” label starts, it’s simply acknowledgement that those using it have exhausted their (limited) intellect.

Tom of Melbourne

June 11. 2012 07:52 PM

Tom of Melbourne

(i mean DMW)

Tom of Melbourne

June 11. 2012 07:56 PM

Glorfindel

Hey Psyclaw,

Well the interesting thing about my comment is that I can point to something like the preferred PM figures and point out that Rudd is ahead of both Gillard and Abbott. And massively ahead. (Newspoll, fairfax etc)


So there's an objective, independent measure to back up what I'm saying.

I could also point out that Sports bet currently have the ALP  at $7 - 1 to win the next election whereas under Rudd the worst figures they recorded were $1.30 compared to $3.40 for the coalition.

So the bookies figures would suggest the Rudd has a better chance of winning than Gillard does.

So I can point to a couple of independent objective measures that indicate Rudd would have a better chance of victory than Gillard.

>> one joins the populist attack dog approach to try to dethrone JG, then one is in fact a populist attack dog against JG<<

Can you back this up with anything. Anything at all. And did you get around to sending Albo that email yet?

This is conjecture www.dictionary.com conjecture
1. the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.
2. an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation.

And that's you to a tee. Well unless there is evidence or proof that you've cunningly been keeping to yourself you sly ol fox you.

And with terms like "populist attack dog" it's pretty inflammatory nonsensical conjecture at that.

>> Which one is written by a supporter of the ALP?<<

Well both I'd say. Although your insistence on handicapping the party come next election might start to raise a few alarm bells.....

Glorfindel

June 11. 2012 08:18 PM

DMW

that debbiep is wicked (in the wicked sense of humour way)

debbiep ‏@demafler
#QandA Ms Gillard, could u please do something about the education of Political reporters, thankyou?

debbiep ‏@demafler
#QandA Ms Gillard tellus how important it is 4 the LNP 2 attend ur economic forum moreso due 2 their ongoing dismal display of hockeonomics

Go debbiep

DMW

June 11. 2012 08:27 PM

DMW

Hi ToM
you may be right about ... “troll” probably mainly gets used on sites where there is a prevailing pro ALP government sentiment, ...

I have noticed that when I have commented on a 'pro LNP' site or responded to LNP tweetheart the labels used are along the lines 'faggot' 'homo' 'scum' 'lefty tryhard' and other variations but not troll.

Wonder why but not too often.

DMW

June 11. 2012 08:30 PM

DMW

Psyclaw,
hmmm I suspect I may have been guilty of that on the odd occasion

BUT, BUT in my defence I will say unknowingly Smile

DMW

June 11. 2012 08:32 PM

Psyclaw

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! The new truth is with us.

Bookies and pollsters now determine fact as opposed to conjecture.

Students will now be compelled to study Philosophy 101 in combination with Determining the Odds 101. and Pollstering 101.

Dog Albitey, please spare us from this lightweight discourse.

RIP Plato, Socrates, Aristotle ........ please don't role over in your graves...... this distraction, this blasphemy will come to pass in its own good time.

Psyclaw

June 11. 2012 08:49 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I have just posted Complexity - the Great Australian Aversion.

www.thepoliticalsword.com

It is an attempt to tease out why were have an aversion to the complexity of the many issues that confront us as a nation.  I trust you will enjoy the debate.

Ad astra

June 11. 2012 09:01 PM

jane

TT, these are for you.

www.smh.com.au/.../...s-weekly-20100728-10vg0.html

I'm still freezing my @rse off in the office, reading the latest on TPS, until the computer quack restores my laptop to me, but will have to retreat to the heater.

jane

June 11. 2012 11:00 PM

NormanK

Tony Jones is a complete prat! I knew there was a good reason why I no longer watch Q&A. That reason is Tony Jones.
I think it was Mega who fairly recently described him as one of Australia's best interviewers. If that's the case then God help us. He expressed surprise that the reduction in the tax-free threshold is directly linked to the pricing of carbon. I knew that and I'm not very smart or well-informed but one of Australia's best interviewers didn't. Fool.

Ms Gillard got him a beauty though with "they're not looking to replace you are they Tony?" when he insisted on picking at the scab of leadership tensions. Ten out of ten Julia.

DMW and others here will be well pleased that Tony Abbott was not once mentioned by name even when the question begged for a response that laid the blame for ugly political discourse squarely at his feet. No mention even of the Opposition, instead it was 'difficulties in the parliament' and the like that were used to describe legislation being thwarted or lack of bipartisanship.

The PM did really well tonight even if it did start to look like heavy going towards the end. She will have made some fans tonight and answered some pressing questions especially on carbon pricing compensation. Which reminds me - Tony Jones is a complete prat!

NormanK

June 12. 2012 09:30 AM

Glorfindel

Hey Psyclaw,

Can I start by saying that you’re confusing the heck out of me, your vocabulary etc clearly indicates that you are an intelligent guy. Yet your content is screaming “moron”. Quite loudly to.

Are you just not trying?  Just bashing the first thing that comes into your head down onto the keyboard ? Or is psyclaw being used by different people is that why you are all over the place ?

>>Bookies and pollsters now determine fact as opposed to conjecture. <<

Well conjecture by its nature cannot determine what facts are not at all. Did that earlier definition confuse you? Opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof. Opinions and theories are not facts. Wow isn't that amazing. You might want to read it a few times until it sinks in.

As to bookies and polls well they are indicative. Let me dumb it right down for you.

Rudd leads Gillard as preferred PM. This means MORE people want Rudd to be PM and LESS people want Gillard to be PM.

That would indicate Rudd has a BETTER chance of wining an election than Gillard.

Are you with me, or have I lost you again.

As to the bookies well the odds are the bookies way of reflecting probability (plus a profit margin). And you were so keen on probability earlier. 7-1 reflects a lower probability than 1.30 – 1.

A lower probability would reflect a lower chance of winning.

Weird isn’t it that you eagerly embraced probability earlier, but it seems typical that when reality gives you a result you disagree with you ignore that reality and gish gallop on.

Hey have you ever read what De Bono has to say about those old dead Greek guys you seem so keen on?

But are the references to philosophy the big clue? Is that why you ignore reality so because you prefer the abstract?

How about we consider history instead. Rudd and Gillard have both lead the party into an election. Rudd as opposition leader Gillard as PM. Rudd faced Howard a capable politician. Gillard faced Abbott who you don’t seem to rate at all.

This would indicate that Gillard had the easier task than Rudd having both the benefit of incumbency and facing a weaker opponent.

The results Rudd achieved a positive swing of %5.44 and gained 23 seats. Gillard a negative swing of %2.58 and a loss of 11 seats.

A positive swing and gaining seats is considered a better result. Are you still with me on this one, winning seats is in politics considered better than losing seats.

So we have statistics, probability and history all to say that Rudd would have a better chance of winning the next election.

And you still have nothing. Well you have some baseless philosophical conjecture which in real terms is the same thing.

Hey maybe the next time somebody asks “Can you back this up with anything. Anything at all. “ it’s quite ok for you to say No. You really don’t have to use 70 words when one will do.


Glorfindel

June 12. 2012 11:54 AM

jane

glorfindel, I think you'll find more LNP voters prefer Rudd as PM, not ALL voters.

This has been pointed out to you more than once, but like ToM and his imaginary "carbon tax" you refuse to accept the inconvenient truth.

jane

June 12. 2012 12:58 PM

Glorfindel

Hi Jane,

First time I've heard it. And considering what the polls show let's hope that a heck of a lot of those with an intention of voting LNP change their minds on that as well.

And does that include those voters that prefer Rudd as PM over Abbott?

Looking at the June Nielsen poll it would seem that more LNP voters want Rudd as Labor leader, but not as PM. More LNP voters would prefer Abbott as PM. Yet Rudd has a commanding lead over Abbott as preferred PM. Whereas in the same poll Abbott leads Gillard as preferred PM.

So it might be more correct to say that a majority of LNP voters would prefer Rudd as ALP leader than Gillard.

But a majority of voters overall would prefer Rudd as PM.

Glorfindel

June 14. 2012 02:56 PM

the moor

The longer it goes on the more it seems that Tony Abbott doesn't have a plan B.  He was in the box seat to be PM after the last election and blew it big time because of his arrogance and failure to negotiate effectively with two conservative independents.  His plan A was to convince one or more of those independents to defect thus giving him government, but that has failed miserably and despite his best efforts the Labor party don't look like imploding.  

The fact that two conservative independents chose not to ally themselves with him, and don't appear to regret that decision, combined with his obvious bitterness about the loss and hatred for Julia Gillard the woman has to raise questions about his character and fitness to be the alternative PM. His low poll standing as alternative PM shows that most Australians don't actually want a PM with the divisive and vindictive qualities he displays.  

Eighteen months on he still hasn't accepted the loss of his own making, nor realised that his crash through tactics aren't working.  Instead he continues to offer up one liners and a narrow focus that most Australians are heartily sick of.  Personally I think it is time the Liberals had a change of leader.  Australia deserves a Liberal leader who can unite rather than divide and one who can formulate a workable vision that is fair to all Australians rather than skewed towards the interests of just a few.

the moor

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