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Complexity – the Great Australian Aversion

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Monday, 11 June 2012 20:41 by Ad astra
Close your eyes and reflect for a moment on news items you have seen or heard on commercial TV or radio in recent times. What characterizes them? They are almost invariably short, sensational, overly dramatized, sometimes squalid, and often portray conflict between people or groups or races. In recent years we have been fed a diet of this material so regularly that for many it has become the norm. Like those who have become accustomed to eating fast food, without it they feel deprived.

Any attempt to represent the difficult and complex issues we face as a nation in a more considered way is too often thwarted by the desire of the majority of consumers for short, simple, uncomplicated bite-sized and easily assimilable messages that require little thought, little reflection, little discomfort. There is widespread agreement that this phenomenon has lessened the attention span of consumers to the extent that asked to concentrate on anything for longer than a few seconds, or at most a couple of minutes, results in wandering attention, loss of concentration and interruption by minor distractions.

The net result is an electorate where many are not attuned to complex issues, and are not just disinterested, but hostile at having to consider them. They want issues to be simple, or at least simplified, and the solutions straightforward and uncomplicated.

The complexity of climate change
To illustrate these points, let’s look at one of the most complex issues of our time – climate change and global warming. For many, the science is too complicated, too beset with caveats, and so subject to contrary views that most people decline to think about it at all. They are not prepared to read, view or listen to even a well-prepared discourse that uses relevant facts and figures, and draws reasoned conclusions. It is all too hard. Denialist statements give them the easy way out.

There are exceptions of course, and some of the media, notably the ABC and SBS, do make an attempt to address complex issues in their special programs such as Four Corners and Insight, and in their documentaries, so that the few who are interested can enjoy and benefit from them. Sadly they constitute but a tiny fraction of the population.

To convince a skeptical electorate that a serious threat to our planet and its inhabitants and ecology exists, one that responsible decision-makers must take action to combat, is a monumental task. The task itself is hard enough, but with climate deniers or skeptics deliberately disseminating misinformation, doubt and fear, it becomes almost impossible. And since there is a widely-held view that the consequences of global warming are a long way off, the motivation for change is minimal. If a lethal tsunami were visible on the horizon, action would be immediate. The global warming ‘tsunami’ is not yet clearly visible.

Contrast the task of the Government with the actions of the Coalition.

The Government has to convince the electorate that global warming is occurring and that it is a dangerous threat to our way of life and to future generations, that preventive and remedial measures are available, and that action must be taken, and taken now before it is too late.

It must convince the electorate that an Emissions Trading Scheme preceded by a price on carbon is an effective and necessary action, and that as the highest polluting nation per capita in the world we are morally obliged as good global citizens to take action now. It must convince the electorate that the price per tonne is appropriate. It must convince it that this action, along with other measures to move our economy to a low carbon one that can take advantage of the burgeoning renewable industries, is essential for the survival and prosperity of our economy.

And this task has to be undertaken in the face of self-serving opposition from those whose vested interests are threatened, and from the skeptics, together with a concerted campaign of misinformation, deception, and simplistic solutions from Tony Abbott and the Coalition.

Those simplistic solutions are to ‘stop the toxic carbon tax’, that will drive the cost of everything up, and up, and up, and destroy whole industries and towns and countless jobs, and instead adopt the ‘simple’ Coalition approach, its Direct Action Plan, proposed ever so quietly in the background as an alternative. It is simple for Abbott to visit countless commercial outlets and get on TV with a short message that ruin will attend these businesses when the carbon tax is introduced. It is easy to say that Australia will disadvantage itself economically by being ahead of the rest of the world when its scheme begins on July 1, which is untrue as scores of countries, US states and Canadian provinces already have a trading scheme, and that it will have the highest price per tonne of carbon in the world, when this too is untrue.

Which is easier? The Government’s task or the Coalition’s?

Even if the Government had a top class media unit staffed by educators who were capable of crafting understandable messages about global warming and an ETS to combat it, the messages would be bound to be more complex, more comprehensive, more detailed than the simple, albeit disingenuous contrary messages of the Coalition. Being negative, disseminating deceptive messages, is simple and easy. And this is largely because the electorate has an aversion to complexity, an aversion to teasing out the facts, an aversion to reasoning to a logical conclusion.

This is deadly serious. How can any government introduce complex measures to deal with the complex problems facing our nation when the electorate by and large are averse to, and refuse to think about complex matters, preferring instead simple solutions to problems no matter how complex?

Complexity in economics
Let’s move to economics. In recent memory there has been nothing as complex as the global financial crisis, its precedents and the fallout, which continues to this day.

There is a splendid account about how the GFC came about at the denis bider website titled: The subprime mortgage collapse for dummies, which is well worth a read.

Apart from describing how subprime mortgages came into being and how they fell apart, it also describes collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), which were at the very heart of the ultimate collapse. The whole sorry tangle was so complex that very, very few understood what they were getting themselves into – their aversion to complexity meant they were not prepared, or perhaps not equipped to even try to understand them. They preferred to take the simplistic approach that this seemed a good way to make money, and they avoided thinking about the risks. That was too complex, too difficult. Even those not intimately involved declined to address the complexity of the collapse, leaving them confused about how it all happened and apprehensive about it happening again. Unwillingness to address complexity has left them uncertain and fearful of the future.

This is another example of how aversion to complexity led to a financial disaster for many, a global disaster for much of the world, and continuing trepidation.

Complexity in Europe
Look at the contemporary financial situation, notably in Europe. Nobody seems to know what ought to be done. Some put forward their opinions and theories, but because they often conflict, no one is certain. Add to that the political dimension, and the self-interest of nations caught up in the crisis, and even the best economic solution might be rejected. Here again an aversion to complexity has led to simplistic solutions from economists, platitudinous suggestions from politicians, and political unwillingness to act decisively.

What makes the ‘Eurocrisis’ so complex? Try multiple nations all with separate and fiercely independent governments, all trying to do the best for themselves, with the common good of the Eurozone a secondary consideration. Consider that almost all are tied to the Euro. Reflect on the differences in culture from the hard working Germans to the laidback Greeks who regard as their right early retirement at 55, with civil servants on a pension that equates to 80% of the final salary, and who have a cadre of wealthy people who have made tax avoidance an art form, thereby pushing the Greek economy towards bankruptcy. Think about the variety of attitudes that exist towards the proposed austerity measures, with the Germans and others insisting they must be attempted, while in France and Greece there are political parties that reject austerity as part of their party platform. Take into account multiple national banks with varying liquidity, debts and ratings, some needing a bailout, or as some like to label it, ‘a line of credit’. Remember that there is a European Central Bank as well as the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, all interacting in a complex way. Think about the bond markets in those countries, which are used to raise funds to manage debt, and which need to offer higher and higher interest rates as the risk to lenders rises, with around 7% seen as the tipping point towards inability to repay. Reflect on the effects: economic, financial and psychological, that the economies of these nations and the whole Eurozone have on markets worldwide and in our own country. Then you will have some idea of the complexity of the Eurozone crisis. Is it beyond human understanding? Are there any who are capable of tackling it and advancing plausible solutions?

It is because so few are capable of, or willing to tackle this complexity that the crisis drags on month after month.

The lesser players who invest in stock markets, who themselves do not understand this complexity, have to rely on hunch, bits of information and what others are doing to manage their investments, and of course the age-old motivators, fear and greed. They choose the easy to understand bits rather than attempting a more comprehensive analysis.

In a telling article in the Sydney Morning Herald today titled: Economists fail the reality test – again, having set out how they once again got it so wrong about the health of Australia’s economy, Ross Gittins concludes: “The unvarnished truth - which none of us can admit, even to ourselves - is we think we know what's happening in the economy, but we don't. We're too fallible, and it's too big and complicated.” Exactly, it’s too complex, and even economists have an aversion to complexity.

The complexity of entitlements
Finally, let’s look at the complexity surrounding what are believed to be our ‘entitlements’, about which the much-admired political editor of the Australian Financial Review, Laura Tingle has written in her recent Quarterly Essay: Great Expectations: Government, Entitlement and an Angry Nation.

Before we do, let’s look at what another respected source said this week about our state of mind. Glenn Stevens, RBA Governor, in his address to the American Chamber of Commerce (SA) on 8 June, after describing Australia’s buoyant economy and last week’s ‘beautiful set of numbers’, said: “Yet the nature of public discussion is unrelentingly gloomy, and this has intensified over the past six months. Even before the recent turn of events in Europe and their effects on global markets, we were grimly determined to see our glass as half empty. Numerous foreign visitors to the Reserve Bank have remarked on the surprising extent of this pessimism. Each time I travel abroad I am struck by the difference between the perceptions held by foreigners about Australia and what I read in the newspapers at home.”

After providing a glowing economic analysis, complete with facts, figures and mature reasoning, his concluding words were: “For Australians, the glass is well and truly half full.” His erudite speech, The Glass Half Full, is well worth a read.

He doesn’t mention specifically, nor do other commentators, that a significant amount of the pessimism that exists today is due to the unremitting negativity of Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey, who talk down the economy day after day, but I suspect he has them in mind as he talks about 'the glass half empty’.

Laura Tingle begins by giving an explanation of the origins of the electorate’s anger by referring to our colonial history. From the arrival of the First Fleet, citizens felt the colony’s administration had control over its destiny. Paul Kelly amplified this in what he described in his book, The End of Certainty, as the ‘Australian Settlement’, an agreement made at the time of federation. According to him, this ‘settled’ political construct guided Australian political ethos for the next 80 years. It was based on five action pillars: White Australia, Industry Protection, Wage Arbitration, State Paternalism, and an Imperial Benevolence supporting nation building in this distant outpost of the British Empire. Because the government controlled these ‘action pillars’, it could be relied upon to look after its people in a predictable way.

Then came the reforms of the Hawke/Keating era when deregulation saw the floating of the dollar, interest rates set by an independent Reserve Bank, reduced industry protection, and the Prices and Income Accord that led to enterprise bargaining, all removing government control over these levers of economic activity. These radical reforms were accomplished with collaboration of the unions and other players, but were also aided via a bipartisan approach from the Howard Opposition, which was then devoid of aggressive tactics of opposition.

Tingle points out that when our long history of a paternalistic relationship with government was unwound during the Hawke and Keating period, “…an argument was put to us that in the national interest we had to wind back what we expected from government. For example, we couldn't expect that government would fund us through retirement. We would have to make our own way in retirement and fund it through superannuation.” During the era that followed, Howard set out to make people ‘relaxed and comfortable’ after the intense Hawke/Keating period of change, and gifted with a huge increase of revenue at the time, he increased payments to individuals and families in a series of handouts and benefits, so many, that by the time he left office over forty percent of the budget was being spent on social security and welfare. He had engendered a sense of entitlement in the electorate.

So we had a combination of governments having less control over the levers of the economy that left the electorate feeling that the government was less powerful than before, less able to control economic events, yet giving handouts that instead of evoking gratitude, created a sense of entitlement, a sense that this is what governments ought to do. As Tingle said: “[Howard] created this whole new edifice of government support and assistance, an expectation from people that they deserved to get something from government, not because they needed it but because they deserved to get it. That has created a really big rod for the backs of everybody who follows because it is very hard to unwind that sense of entitlement just based on the idea that government is there to give you something, not because you really need it.”

She explains: “It is wrong to see the anger of the last few years as a ‘one-off,’ which might go away at the next election. The things we are angry about betray the changes that have been taking place over recent decades. Politicians no longer control interest rates, the exchange rate, or wages, prices or industries that were once protected or even owned by government. Voters are confused about what politicians can do for them in such a world.” She adds that making promises that governments cannot keep exacerbates this confusion.

More detailed discussion of the Tingle essay is for another time. My purpose in including it here is simply to add to the catalogue of complex matters that beset us in the global economy in which we now live. My proposition is that it is the complexity of the series of events I’ve described – lesser control by governments and an established sense of entitlement – that has combined to produce anger and pessimism and disillusionment in the electorate, to an extent that almost defies comprehension by the voters. It is all too complex, and with the aversion we have to complexity it is too hard to think about, and therefore too hard to understand. The task for the Government is to explain this complexity in simple terms, to explain to the electorate that no matter who is in government, control over the economy and people’s lives is less than it has ever been, that the age of entitlement is behind us, and that the economic forces that propel governments cannot return us to the halcyon days for which so many seem to yearn. If that could be explained in understandable language, the anger might dissipate.

Aversion to complexity
To return to the theme of this piece, it is argued that because we live in an increasingly complex world, to understand what is happening, what might transpire, and what it is possible to do about it, we need to come to grips with complexity. There is no other way. Our aversion to complexity is leaving us in no-man’s land.

What we need from governments, economists and commentators is a way of addressing and understanding complexity, so that even if we cannot comprehend all the intricate details we can at least understand that there are reasons why things are the way they are. If we can comprehend even a glimpse of a plausible representation of the present, and a reasonable way ahead, we can all be collaborators in an even brighter, and more coherent future for us all.

What do you think?

Comments (273) -

June 11. 2012 09:51 PM

TalkTurkey

Ad astra I have not yet read your new thread
but Jane posted this last of all on the last one
saying TT this is for you
But I think it's for everyone

www.smh.com.au/.../...s-weekly-20100728-10vg0.html

I have only ever bought one women's mag in my life, it was this one for which *J*U*L*I*A* was posing. Stunning.


But Folks notice she is wearing 3 different necklaces in the various shots, one bead one is too heavy, the metal one is not much chop, and the smaller white beads are unnecessary in the shirt she's wearing . . . She should bloody employ me as her dresser I kid you not! 'Fact she should employ me to soften up her interviewers too . . . No Jason Obelix would be better for that, one way OR another . . . Smile

She's ON! On Q&A

TalkTurkey

June 11. 2012 09:54 PM

TalkTurkey

AAARGGGHHHH NO NECKLACE!

Wormtongue is being disgraceful!

TalkTurkey

June 11. 2012 10:40 PM

paul walter

Laura Tingle is of course the next, almost the last broadsheet writer in line for termination from the Morlocks and Volgans,  Jabba the Hutt figures like Palmer, Rinehart and their ilk.
What a class stable of thinking columnists Fairfax once had.
Where are they all, why of all the stars they once had are only a few left: Gittins, Tingle, Ackland; maybe one or two others.
Tingle was faced with an obstructive Emma Alberici on Latteline last Friday night but, with patience, got out the thrust of the article, which draws on the brilliance of Hugh Mackay surely, the man who broke open the concept so effectively during the Howard years.

paul walter

June 11. 2012 11:00 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
Our PM, Julia Gillard was magnificent on Q&A tonight.  Tony Jones was disgraceful.  More of that later.

I felt the audience warmed to her more and more with each answer.  Even the hard-nosed antagonists couldn't sustain their anger.

This is a PM of whom we can be proud for her courage, resolve and willingness to be subject to a public audience who threw many curly questions from which she did not shirk, instead giving comprehensive and plausible answers.

Ad astra reply

June 11. 2012 11:19 PM

TalkTurkey

Paul Walter,
Welcome Comrade to TPS if you're new here, and 10-4 re decent journos. Look back at Ad astra's very first post here and you'll know that this has unwaveringly been the focus of this blog. And will be as long as it is needed.

Was Latteline a typo or a giggle? - Love it anyway!

TalkTurkey

June 11. 2012 11:21 PM

DMW

Totally off topic

I was very impressed that the PM did not mention LotO by name nor speak of the opposition

11 & 1/2 out of ten.

DMW

June 11. 2012 11:28 PM

TalkTurkey

Tony "Wormtongue" Jones is a poisonous spiteful creep. His ignorance re carbon price offsets is a disgrace, but his comment re knitting needles in the back was both mischievous and despicable.

He needs to be purged. As do many on the ABC, Uhlman most urgently.


Morriscum getting 100% condemnation from knowledgable and sensible and humane 3 guests on Cannane's show. Properly called out on factual and humanitarian grounds.

TalkTurkey

June 11. 2012 11:32 PM

TalkTurkey

DMW said

11 & 1/2 out of ten.

In Hockeyspeak that's elebenty-half Smile

TalkTurkey

June 11. 2012 11:44 PM

Psyclaw

AA
Thanks for another provocation.

I think that complexity is indeed a threat to our democracy. If democracy relies on an informed  ie understand-the-issues vote, then I think we're goners.

The result will be that while an informed electorate can vote accordingly and refuse to elect a purveyor of undesirable policies, such a purveyor will not be rejected when the (complex) policies are not understood.

So the electorate will only learn that the policies are undesirable after they have been implemented and everyone is dumped upon from a great height.

Abbott of course is the elephant in the room. I believe that an informed electorate would never elect him eg if they understood the (complex) policy of winding back the carbon scheme, but if this happens then will soon learn that hell can occur here on earth.

The apparently widespread failure to understand how the original Super profits tax and the original pokies reform policy would both substantially benefit the wider community was evidenced by the success of the Miners' and Clubs Australia's advertising campaigns.

It is so hard to imagine that so many ordinary punters supported the super rich, selfish Miners retention of huge profits gained by selling their (ie the punters') own in-ground assets.

It is so hard to imagine that so many ordinary punters supported the clubs gouging of money from them, and especially that nearly 50% came from afflicted addicts who were robbing their families to pay "the club". And especially given the fact (and there was more evidence about this today) that the clubs' so called community support donations were/are but a pittance of their pokies income. All too complex. All too boring to obtain the facts of the matter and think it through ..... too complex.

The solution to this is akin to putting wise heads on young shoulders, the implementation of which is a process about which I (and possibly most of us) am unsure.


QandA
BTW Tony Jones was an utter disgrace. He even did Costelloesque and Morissonesque smirks on a number of occasions as he gave great effort to obtaining  "gotchas" from JG about past leadership matters ..... he was like a dog with a bone ....so crass. But the ranga easily had his measure.

I note that in his repeated questioning about the AFP's actions on Emad he failed to disclose his wifely conflict of interest. How sleezeful!

Psyclaw

June 12. 2012 12:52 AM

Psyclaw

TT

Re Jones

His ignorance re carbon price offsets is a disgrace,

I just don't believe that he didn't know the tax free threshold increase is part of the carbon compo. Nor was he devil's advocating. He was playing us all for fools.

What an ingenuous prat. "Is the tax free threshold change really part of the carbon compo?' he worms. And "are you now confirming that the tax free threshold increase is part of the carbon compo?" he slimes forth. What an act.

All it was was an attempted innuendo that JG is so poor a communicator that she has not previously made this clear. Her smiling reply ..... words to the effect "of course Tony .... we announced that from the outset many months ago" deftly put him down.

Only Jones and perhaps 3 or 4 other cross bred mongrels in the nation didn't know this.

BTW her sense of humour shone through and one quip in particular had the whole house applauding, including the coalitionist 44% of the audience.

My visiting 98 year old mother in law who waited up way past her bedtime just to see the PM said at the end "Well I'm going to vote for JG again next time".  

And as she left the room, toddling off to bed she said as an aside "and I just don't like that man!",  referring of course to Jones, who she doesn't know at all, being an 8.30pm-to-bed- person. Out of the mouths of babes!!!!!  ...... well almost.

Psyclaw

June 12. 2012 06:44 AM

Linda

I noticed how TJ said words to the effect that he *should* mention that TA has been invited to appear but......   I took that to mean that he didn't really want to say that but probably had to.  His bias is showing.  You can't tell me that he did not realise that the increased tax free threshold was not part of the carbon tax package - dumbing things down and trying to create controversy when he should be reporting!!

Linda

June 12. 2012 07:27 AM

Lyn

TODAY’S LINKS

Class Consciousness , Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate
That chip-on-the-shoulder curse of the generalist is what motivates many of them (the Joe Hildebrands of the world) to sell their capacity for professional smart-arsery to the highest bidder. And we know who that is. Joe lives and breathes pretending he is on the side of the 'real people' against the tut-tutting latte set set
thefailedestate.blogspot.com.au/.../...usness.html

Nauru sacks entire cabinet, Radio Australia
The president of Nauru dismissed the country's entire cabinet on Monday.
"It has become increasingly evident that cabinet and I cannot continue to work together. These are some of the reason why I have dismissed my cabinet today," he said.
www.radioaustralia.net.au/.../958686

Food For Thought #11: Craig Thomson And Australians – Are We Really Like This?, Defnarf, The Australian Blog
until what? The accused , ends up a tearful, trembling mess huddled in a dark corner or commits suicide? Or would they be prepared to form a ‘lynch mob’ and save the accused the trouble of self harm? There certainly is enough numbers to form a very imposing lynch mob!
deknarf.wordpress.com/.../

An Open Letter To The Independents, Windsor, Oakeshot, Wilkie, and Katter, Wixxy, Wixxy Leaks
What I will say, is that Michael Lawler is the second highest ranking industrial judge in Australia, and holds a government appointed position. He is answerable to government only.The public, need to have faith in the industrial relations watchdog
wixxy.wordpress.com/.../

A Day in Court with Kathy Jackson , Frances Jones
I don’t like the way Kathy Jackson has used the media to create the ‘trial by media’ of Craig Thomson, which the LNP ran with to the extreme because they wanted to bring down the government. I was interested to see the way she confidently criticised Justice Flick. She’s gutsy, a politician, a fighter. You just don’t criticise a Federal Court judge, it’s his domain. Follow the law’s policies and  www.thomsonreuters.com.au/.../89477
francesjones.wordpress.com/.../

Open Letter to Anthony Albanese and Bill Shorten, Wayne Brooks, Curiosity and Challenge
Does this ego maniac honestly disregard the possibility that murder squads don’t allow you to pack and gather documents prior to running for your life? Does he not realise forged documents are often required to escape war zones,
wrb330.wordpress.com/.../

PM Julia Gillard tells big mouth miners, they’re not more important than childcare workers, Turn Left 2013
Australia’s second richest person, the South African mining billionaire Ivan Glasenberg has placed the blame squarely on PM Gillard for making it harder for him to make more money
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

Mystification at Jacksonville, Independent Australia
I fail to see any way that an Opposition with any sort of credibility could continue to support Jackson. Someone who has shown herself to be entirely lacking in judgement — especially given the way she has handled herself both in and out of court this week. How can a political party support somebody who would approach a sitting judge privately,
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

The Ultimate Whinging Pom, Archie, Archie Archives
Then Tony Abbott began his campaign of ambitious bullying, commonly referred to as complete negativity. He has been willing to embrace the title of Dr No. He has been willing to talk down everything which may be construed as a positive. He has been willing to disregard any damage he is doing to our country.
archiearchive.wordpress.com/.../

Public trust in Australian media among worst in the world, Mumbrella
The Australian public’s trust in the media is lower than in virtually any other country, research released today by Edelman Public Relations suggests.According to the survey, only 32% of the Australian public trusts the media, compared to a global average of 49%
mumbrella.com.au/public-trust-in-australian-media-among-worst-in-the-world-39477

Craig Emerson rips into the ABC, Bernard Keane, The Stump
Here’s the transcript of an interview of Craig Emerson this morning by ABC News 24. It speaks for itself.THE HON DR CRAIG EMERSON MP MINISTER FOR TRADE AND COMPETITIVENESSTranscript ABC NEWS 24 BREAKFAST  9 June 2012
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#.T9L6Tgq_c50.twitter

Meeting the challenge of convergent media policy , Terry Flew, The Conversation
the internet” is as much The Australian online, BBC World, CNN.com or ABC iView, as it is blogging, online mashups or user-created content.In other words, the commercial and the non-commercial, the mass media and citizen media, co-exist in the same online space. The question of media influence returns in a different form.
theconversation.edu.au/meeting-the-challenge-of-convergent-media-policy-7251

Once Upon a Time, Charlotte, For the Love of Politics
Julia Gillard will Take on any battle and anyone for her cause,not letting little gripes pull her down.Strong,resourceful,powerful and determinated our Julia is head and shoulders above anything and anyone that the villain tries to put in her way. He’s no match for the warrior princess whose witt and charm and intelligence and good heart light her way.
fortheloveofpolitics.tumblr.com/.../once-upon-a-time

Economic nirvana: Long may it reign over us, Stephen Koukoulas, Market Economics
Pretty good ay? If we revisit this list of economic achievements in 3 or even 5 years and the broad thrust of them are still in place, it would be fantastic.This is why economic policy matters so much.\
www.marketeconomics.com.au/2073-economic-nirvana-long-may-it-reign-over-us

Australia’s Carbon Tax: Tony Abbott hopes the sky will fall in,Antinuclear
Publicly, their leader Tony Abbott] talks mining stocks down; privately, they snap up the investments … His whole campaign is a complete fraud. As July 1 approaches he is going to get more and more desperate, because he will have no credibility left.
antinuclear.net/.../

Australia's news media faces regulatory crackdown by government, Guardian UK
but so febrile has been the atmosphere of late that many commentators predict the Gillard administration, which polls suggest faces annihilation at the ballot box next year, will be tempted to impose a stricter regulatory regime as a parting slap at a fourth estate it blames for its electoral woes.
www.guardian.co.uk/.../australia-media-regulatory-crackdown-government

Liberals Are Ruining America. I Know Because I Am One. New York Times
At least for me. I’ve come to regard all conservatives as extremists, a mob of useful idiots plied by profiteers, rather than a diverse spectrum of citizens
www.nytimes.com/.../...-know-because-i-am-one.html

Households receive $1 billion in assistance
More than $1 billion in household assistance payments has been delivered to about 5 million Australian families and pensioners since the roll out began almost a month ago.
The Gillard Government is delivering household assistance to help people on low and middle incomes make ends meet.
http://www.alp.org.au:6020/federal-government/news/households-receive-$1-billion-in-assistance/?utm_

Not your average Aussie, Miglo Café Whispers
Prime Minister, despite her red hair, long nose, big bum, Welsh accent, toxic government, battles with faceless men, unmarried status, daily media attacks, daily leadership speculation, bad polls, hatred inspired by the shock jocks, hatred inspired by Tony Abbott, witnessing the denigration of Parliament by the Opposition,
cafewhispers.wordpress.com/.../

Tony Abbott And The Prophets Of Doom!, Patricia wa, Polliepomes
The PM has survived a massive ongoing media blitz echoing his predictions of gloom and their own best efforts at spreading his word at grass roots level. Are any of them close to burn-out or depression after working for so long in an atmosphere of unrelenting negativity? And failure too.
polliepomes.wordpress.com/.../

Looking for Leaders, Bill Street, The KingsTribune
However, our system also means that your vote for your local representative naturally translates into a vote for who will form government and that, by default, becomes a vote for who you want as prime minister. The careful voter will take all these things into consideration, as well as who might be prime minister further down the track.
kingstribune.com/.../1489-looking-for-leaders-

TODAY’S FRONT PAGES
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 12 June 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Video:-

Emerson talks Malaysia not Thomson
Trade minister Craig Emerson discusses the recent trade agreement with Malaysia, but refuses to be drawn on the Craig Thomson saga
.www.abc.net.au/.../4062038

Great Expectations. Laura Tingle Discusses Her Quarterly Essay
www.themonthly.com.au/great-expectations-laura-tingle-discusses-her-quarterly-essay-5397

Lyn

June 12. 2012 07:46 AM

Cuppa

Out of complexity comes conservatism.

Conservatives gravitate to simplistic 'solutions'. For example when confronted with the issue of people seeking asylum, many will reflexively say, "Refugees bad." And there it is! complexity obliterated by a clear-cut, knee-jerk response. No need to 'think'; conservatives KNOW the responses required.

Gay marriage? Bad!

Climate change? Hoax!

Unions? Bad!

And so on.

Then add into the equation, conservative propagandists, with which Australia is swamped - the likes of Bolt and the hate-spitters of talkback radio. Their role is to do the 'thinking' for the audience, then in turn tell the audience what to think. Further removing any obligation on the conservative to ponder the issues that matter.

"A conservative is a man who just sits and thinks, mostly sits." -Woodrow Wilson

Cuppa

June 12. 2012 08:21 AM

Psyclaw

Cuppa

You're dead right.

A case in point is the redneck right wing fascist and very popular candidate for the Greek election a few days hence.

He says that Greece's financial woes are caused by foreigners living there and he singles out the Turks. His solution ...... boot out the Turks and all will be well.

The other fancied candidate is a rabid leftie who says the woes can be alleviated by leaving the EEC.

RIP Greece!

There are local examples of the same simplistic thinking.

One guy who fancies himself as a contender says that global warming can be alleviated  (not that it really exists mind you, since it's a load of crap) by using taxpayers $s to pay a few corporate mates to plant a few trees here and there.

Psyclaw

June 12. 2012 08:24 AM

Psyclaw

AA.... per favore. Re-posted from the end of the last thread.


Hallelujah! Hallelujah! The new truth is with us.

Bookies and pollsters now determine fact as opposed to conjecture.

Students will now be compelled to study Philosophy 101 in combination with Determining the Odds 101. and Pollstering 101.

Dog Albitey, please spare us from this lightweight discourse.

RIP Plato, Socrates, Aristotle ........ please don't role over in your graves...... this distraction, this blasphemy will come to pass in its own good time.

Psyclaw

June 12. 2012 08:32 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 09:51 AM

deknarf

Nice piece. Most of the complexity is being obscured by 'the slogan' -- catchy but meaningless drivel. Eg. 'Moving Forward', 'Turn Back The Boats'.
I wanted to watch Julia Gillard last night, but after two 'moving forwards' within 30 seconds of one another, switched off and went to bed in disgust.
Sad that the media minders think that such gibberish will turn people on.  So Goebbelsesque!

deknarf

June 12. 2012 10:04 AM

NormanK

Tony Jones is a complete prat! I knew there was a good reason why I no longer watch Q&A. That reason is Tony Jones.
I think it was Mega who fairly recently described him as one of Australia's best interviewers. If that's the case then God help us. He expressed surprise that the reduction in the tax-free threshold is directly linked to the pricing of carbon. I knew that and I'm not very smart or well-informed but one of Australia's best interviewers didn't. Fool.

Ms Gillard got him a beauty though with "they're not looking to replace you are they Tony?" when he insisted on picking at the scab of leadership tensions. Ten out of ten Julia.

DMW and others here will be well pleased that Tony Abbott was not once mentioned by name even when the question begged for a response that laid the blame for ugly political discourse squarely at his feet. No mention even of the Opposition, instead it was 'difficulties in the parliament' and the like that were used to describe legislation being thwarted or lack of bipartisanship.

The PM did really well tonight even if it did start to look like heavy going towards the end. She will have made some fans tonight and answered some pressing questions especially on carbon pricing compensation. Which reminds me - Tony Jones is a complete prat!

NormanK

June 12. 2012 10:06 AM

Lyn

Hi Deknarf

Welcome to you Deknarf nice to have you here.Thankyou for commenting on TPS.

Food For Thought #11: Craig Thomson And Australians – Are We Really Like This?
until what? The accused , ends up a tearful, trembling mess huddled in a dark corner or commits suicide? Or would they be prepared to form a ‘lynch mob’ and save the accused the trouble of self harm? There certainly is enough numbers to form a very imposing lynch mob!
deknarf.wordpress.com/.../

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 12. 2012 10:09 AM

NormanK

deknarf

I've only just seen your comment. I didn't even hear the 'moving forwards' last night. If you want to learn more about what the ALP government stands for and is trying to achieve I recommend that you try to catch up on Q&A. Sure there's a bit of spin but she is a politician.
Julia Gillard was superb and revealed some important information in the answers she gave. If you're sick of the slogans then perhaps you should take the time to listen to her long answers which are devoid of sloganeering.

NormanK

June 12. 2012 10:14 AM

Psyclaw

Deknarf

I noticed yor post over at Cafe Whispers yesterday, criticising the PM for "not governing for all Australians".

That is  a load of old cobblers and  JG well showed that last night.

If you look around the blogosphere and even the MSM today you'll see that JG's QandA appearance  is being widely acclaimed. Even Michelle Grattan approved it.

You must be easily "disgusted". I suggest you try to HTFU.

You missed an excellent expose of why JG who answers every question, is so far ahead of Abbott who literally runs away from hard questions, goes silent, or simply avoids hard questioners.

I guess you don't go to bed in disgust when you see Abbott facing up to those oh so tough questions from Bolt and Karl Stefanovic.  

Psyclaw

June 12. 2012 10:34 AM

LadyInRed

Ad astra. A really good article - once again...Thanks.

Even the not wanting to understand complexity is complex.

Twitter has a lot to answer for.

During the Howard years people started to believe they could have it all, with the governments help. What could be had was talked up and up, the economy was talked up, property was talked up, credit and particularly assets were talked up. Many, many people are now over committed. They now hear doom and gloom, from the same side that talked it all up, and so they are fearful. So they are angry at the government - albeit the wrong one.

deknarf - the PM actually did really well. I thought her use of Edi Mabo as a case in point to explain the noise that is crowding out the message - was brilliant. She is right - we now pat ourselves on the back for how wonderful we were - fully forgetting how nasty and mean spirited the debate actually got.

Which brings me to Tony Jones. I thought he was rude. His knitting needle in the back was one of the lowest blows I have heard to date from the ABC. I intend to send a complaint, it was so uncalled for and tacky. The PM handled herself extremely well and gave Jones some well deserved shots back.




LadyInRed

June 12. 2012 10:41 AM

Franked

Deknarf

You are kidding , you did not watch Q&A at all. You must have been the only person on the planet who heard "moving forward". I watched it  and never heard it. You are like the MSM, you just make things up. As for being easily disgusted I suggest you HTFU.

Franked

Franked

June 12. 2012 11:00 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad

Twitterverse this morning for you . You will see  everybody was extremely pleased with our Prime Minister Julia Gillard, very disappointed in Tony Jones

Top news
WA Treasurer to quit for tilt at federal seat
Western Australia Treasurer Christian Porter is expected to quit the ministry later today in preparation for a tilt at federal politics.
www.abc.net.au/.../4064974

Ian Hanke‏@IanHanke
Herewith a piece by me in the AFR on the HR Nicholls Society conference today versus JG's gabfest in Brisbane. www.afr.com/.../david_and_goliath_of_talkfests_zGM98zZUB3KlA4gwCl3NmN

Financial Review‏
Govt's popularity with electorate continues to languish at record lows, latest Newspoll shows. [free] #auspol www.afr.com/.../latest_poll_continues_gloom_for_ZbSC6iqgxRMo2E2aZ8xKeI

Correllio ‏
Labor 31% primary. Enough already. Bring on an election. www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226392356559

Correllio ‏
Shorter Shanahan: you can't buy Aussies with bribes @juliagillard www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226392356559 #auspol

Schnappi‏@Schnappi5
Murdoch scum think breaking even is a loss,murdoch is better than goeballs. www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226392356559

National Times‏AU
Refugees' new route to Australia. Daniel Flitton reports www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120611-20667.html

The Australian‏@australian
'Bad tidings' makes me unpopular: Abbott: TONY Abbott has attributed Julia Gillard's narrow lead over him as pre... http://bit.ly/LT8jCX

smh.com.au‏@smh
National News: Gillard continues hard sell on economy http://bit.ly/LWCDyQ #australia

Justin Lee‏@JustinLee76
Gillard could be dumped before July 1 www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg75f-1226392347740

Malcolm Farr‏
With 20/20 hindsight, comparing JGillard's Economic Forum to KRudd's summit. Output probably the same. The Punch: http://tiny.cc/s5frfw

Salim Pickens‏
Michelle Grattan continues her relentless barrage of anti-govt bilge with paragraphs of Palmer parroting. http://bit.ly/MyLLIm #auspol

Schtang‏
Interesting no report on the MSM of #newspoll -could it b that LNP primary is back at the level it was when they lost 2010 election #auspol

walabytrack
Snubbed Palmer pans Gillard talks | http://smh.com.au - m.smh.com.au/.../...lard-talks-20120611-2062r.html

Mark ‏markjs1
If I was Coal supporter I'd be VERY worried their PV (44.0%) is only 0.2% higher than 2010 election (43.8%)...2PP lead looks soft!! #auspol

Q AND A

Craig Emerson MP‏
hefinnigans Agree. It can be a good forum. It's not as if Tony Jones gave Julia an easy ride.Will Abbott have guts to appear?

Judythe Riley‏
Congratulations to our PM who was so warm,engaging,articulate,informative,and Prime Ministerial on #qanda last night despite TJones behaviou

julian burnside‏
Great to hear Julia Gillard speaking genuinely and convincingly about what she believes #qanda

Big_Bad_Wolf‏@BigBadWolf1950
I thought she did well...and TonyJones was bloody rude. No respect 4 the position of PM.

visivoz‏@visivoz
Blatant but PM too smart, good humoured, articulate. “@MsPraxis: Tony Jones was openly trolling the PM. That’s all it was. @BreakfastNews”

Pegasus Xing‏@pegusus_xing
@TonyJones_qanda 'knitting needles in the back' comments were way out of line. You would never have said it to Keating #qanda #auspol

TheFinnigans
Can anybody seriously think Tony Abbott can last the whole #qanda, if he has the gut to appear, without mentioning PM Gillard once. PM did

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 12. 2012 11:03 AM

Lyn

Hi Lady in Red

I knew you were beautiful, love your stunning Gravatar.

SmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 12. 2012 11:17 AM

TalkTurkey

Good morning Folks, and I mean that.

I know I didn't say so but in my head I did tentatively think yesterday that if I had had to predict an exact Labor poll figure I would have chosen 46.6% - which seems to be about as close as can be. Why, because this is the Titanic, and the rudder, no ton impended, has only begun to be turned. Just that it was a sniff better than last time, that's enough, the psychology is sufficient. *J*U*L*I*A* preferred a tad more to Abbortt, that is changing too and last night's Q&A will have helped. (Bastard Jones!)

The thing that is happening really is that Abbortt is failing. Falling. Flailing. He will almost certainly be replaced before Crispmess - as I've always said, but now it comes into clear focus. The only thing that can save him can't save him in the end anyway, that is, should the Abborttians not have the get-together to assassinate Abbortt - only because they haven't got a replacement -then they are all doomed to sink on the same ship with him. But if they repalce him they will not find anyone to save them anyway.

Turdball Schmurdball, bring him on!  

Bob Ellis talked a couple of weeks ago of Abbortt's imminent demise - weeks not months said Ellis. A few days ago, Lo! the (genuinely) imminent polls this last weekend, said Ellis, would save Abbortt's bacon by giving a skewed but apparently favourable figure to his mob, due to the long weekend's atypical demographics . . . All very learned prognostication . . .

Ellis reminds me of Alexander Pope's lines in, I think, Rape of the Lock ( a lock of hair snipped from the head of a young noblewoman by an overly ardent admirer, the incident then causing a feud between their two aristocratic families . . . Too much info Turkey . . . )

Anyway if my memory serves me aright, Pope speaks of  
                    ". . . coffee
Which makes the politician wise
And sees through all things through his half-closed eyes"

Well in Bob's case I'm not sure it's likely to be coffee, but he sure answers the visual descripion . . . As for the wisdom, well, Pope was not exactly being sincere there . . .

Wrong on both prognostications Bob. The polls are steady, if you're right at all about Queenie's long weekend distorting the result, well it's not evident, it may be hidden I guess but I think it was just fluff. And re the few weeks for Abbortt to get rolled, well that's cancelled now I guess, so in fact Bob I think you need to get yourself an octopus.

I'll stick with September-November for Abbortt's demise.

Abbortt remember
The ides of September . . .

And if Folks look at the first hundred or so posts on Poll Bludger's new thread you'll see a LOT of speculation to the same effect today.

If I'm wrong about Abbortt's defenestration, it will ONLY be because the Coalition hasn't a replacement and/or hasn't the ticker to roll him, (probably both), but either way they are too far up the creek he has led them, too bereft of policy and the brains to make any, ever to pull their fortunes up. He's gone, and they with him. Hubris? Time will tell. I'm happy. I bet Ad is too.

As for *J*U*L*I*A* -  Doucement . . . doucement . . .

  

  

  

TalkTurkey

June 12. 2012 11:26 AM

LadyInRed

Thanks Lyn. Lucille is one of my fav's. Her fiestiness, red hair, sense of humour, and many other admirable qualities remind me of the PM.....and me - and we share the same name.

Now back to your links. I do appreciate them so much.

LadyInRed

June 12. 2012 11:50 AM

Psyclaw

Franked and NormanK

When I first read Deknarf's comment I was puzzled .... I didn't hear any "moving forward" let alone  two in 30 seconds.

Knowing my own fallibility I said nothing about it in my reply to Defnarf (above). Maybe I'm over-suspicious but ..........

Lady in Red
I wonder if Deknarf went to bed to avoid seeing/hearing JG go so well

Psyclaw

June 12. 2012 11:54 AM

TalkTurkey

Lady in Red

Wow

From 1906!!!

This is for you from 106 years ago!

www.virtualvictrola.com/.../...rry-oldsmobile.html

And for dessert:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6gd3hWmzWc

And now:

The FLOOR SHOW!

cine-fille.com/.../

TalkTurkey

June 12. 2012 12:05 PM

Ad astra

deknarf
Welcome to The Political Sword family and thank you for your complimentary remarks.  Do come again.

Like you, I dislike slogans, not just because of their repetitiveness, but because, as you suggest, they are generally simplistic, and obscure complexity.  I do not regard ‘going forward’ as a slogan, but see it as a manner of speech, similar to the use by many people of ‘you know’ repeatedly as a ‘spacer’ of sorts when speaking.  I didn’t hear Julia Gillard use ‘going forward’ last night, but she used ‘you know’ quite a lot.  Although I find ‘you know’ mildly irritating, it was not enough to stop me listening to what I thought was a magnificent performance as she fielded many acerbic questions, some asked by men whose faces were etched with what looked like anger, or distrust, or ‘no matter what you say, I’m not going to believe or accept it’.  Even some of these softened as she answered.

It’s a pity you missed seeing how well our PM answered questions, how well she was across a variety of issues, and how well she coped with an aggressive and at times seemingly angry host.  To see what I mean, I suggest you replay it when you get a chance.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 12:27 PM

Ad astra

Franked
Welcome to The Political Sword family.  Do come again.  I’m pleased that I was not the only one not to hear Julia Gillard use ‘moving forward’.  Of course she just may have and I missed it – I’d have to play Q&A again to check.  Unfortunately the ABC doesn’t leave a transcript of the program.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 12:27 PM

Ad astra

paul walter
I doubt if even the forces of News Limited could intimidate Laura Tingle, or Ross Gittins or Peter Martin.  They are lone voices of reason and balance, set against Michelle Grattan who has gone to the other side, and Phil Coorey who today writes more scuttlebutt about leadership – he’s really better than that.

When Emma Alberici returned from Europe to host Lateline she seemed much more balanced, but lately she seems antagonistic to guests who are saying supportive things about the Government, as if some ABC journalists have got at her (? co-host Tony Jones), or that she is now infected with ABC groupthink.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 12:42 PM

Ad astra

Cuppa
Thank you for your thoughtful comment and the Woodrow Wilson quote: A conservative is a man who just sits and thinks, mostly sits."

You make a challenging assertion Out of complexity comes conservatism.  The examples you give support your assertion.

Another that comes to mind is the simplistic solution of the conservatives to the financial crisis that the US faces – less government spending and lower taxes, especially for the wealthy.  They maintain that it is the latter who create business and jobs and that the benefits ‘trickle down’ to the lower echelons of society.  Yet ‘trickle down economics’ has been debunked by John Quiggin in his book Zombie Economics - How dead ideas still walk among us   about which I wrote in Joe Hockey should read John Quiggin’s Zombie Economics

www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../Joe-Hockey-should-read-John-Quiggin’s-Zombie-Economics.aspx

So many conservative solutions are redolent with simplistic slogans, which avoid the trauma of gathering facts and figures and reaching reasoned conclusions.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 12:43 PM

jane

Another thought provoking post, Ad astra. It will take a few re-reads to digest.

Damn the fellow, why doesn't he talk in three word slogans like wot that noice Tony Abbott does?


[quote]One guy who fancies himself as a contender says that global warming can be alleviated  (not that it really exists mind you, since it's a load of crap) by using taxpayers $s to pay a few corporate mates to plant a few trees here and there.[quote]

Psyclaw, can Liealot legally stand for office in Greece? Is this his Plan B? I assume his slogan is "Plant More Trees."

jane

June 12. 2012 12:47 PM

Ad astra

LadyinRed
Thank you for your kind remarks.  I like your “Even the not wanting to understand complexity is complex.”

What you say about what happened in the Howard era is right.

I agree with you assessment of Julia Gillard and Tony Jones last night.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 12:54 PM

Miglo

This is really off topic, but LadyinRed, my mother met Lucille Ball and had lunch with her many years ago.  Mum remembered her saying that along with Gregory Peck,her first acting role was in an episode of The Three Stooges.

Sorry for the Cafe talk Ad astra.

Miglo

June 12. 2012 12:54 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thank you for your links, which I have now read, and the Twitterverse, where Tony Jones, quite appropriately, gets nothing but brickbats, and Julia plenty of bouquets.

I couldn’t get the link to the AFR account of Newspoll to work.  I wonder why Fairfax would be reporting Newspoll?  Has News Limited reported on it?  I note Crikey has, and there is little change from last time.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 01:00 PM

Ad astra

TT
I love your optimism and enthusiasm.  I believe you are right – once Abbott is on the nose with his colleagues, his removal would be swift if only they had someone with whom they could replace him.  But whom have they got?

Meanwhile Julia sails on despite the stupid back-grounding that a few disgruntled Labor people give journalists, and the always-willing journos who are ready to write about it – today it was Phil Coorey’s turn.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 01:09 PM

Ad astra

Psyclaw
Thank you for your several contributions and your complimentary remarks.

You make a telling point: “ So the electorate will only learn that the policies are undesirable after they have been implemented and everyone is dumped upon from a great height.”  That is the nub of the problem of the voters by and large being averse to complexity.  That means we would all have to go to jail for three years while Abbott and Co wreaked havoc with attempted repealing of taxes, halting the progress of the NBN, trying to reverse measures passed by the Government, planting trees all over the continent, marshalling a Green Army, and so on the destructive and ineffective process would go.

I agree with you sentiments about Q&A.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 01:14 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad

They are both working for me , but try this link:

Latest poll continues gloom for Labor
PUBLISHED: 4 hours 44 MINUTES AGO | UPDATE: 4 hours 16 MINUTES AGO PRINT EDITION: 12 Jun 2012
Mr Abbott defended the result, saying he wasn’t running in a popularity contest
www.afr.com/.../latest_poll_continues_gloom_for_ZbSC6iqgxRMo2E2aZ8xKeI

Lyn

June 12. 2012 01:23 PM

Ad astra

jane
Thank you for your kind remarks.  Yes, it was pretty heavy going, but complexity always is.  Whenever I talked with medical students and trainee family doctors about complexity, I found it heavy going, yet understanding complexity is essential to practice family medicine.  It is difficult, shall I say complex!  Understanding systems theory helps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory   So does an understanding of the theoretical basis of complexity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complexity  

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 01:30 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thanks, I've got it now.  What a pathetic write up.  As all the figures are within the margin of error, nothing has changed since the last Newspoll.  Has The Oz reported it?  

An alternative headline might be Labor, PM hold steady  or more humorously: Move on - nothing to see here

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 01:47 PM

Glorfindel


I doubt it's complexity that's the issue. Most people I know can discuss in great detail and complexity a topic that they find interesting.  Even if it's “just” football or similar.

It's probably more a case of most people not being overly interested in either politics or economics.

I've known a couple of Ph.D.'s who in their have an absolute mastery of complex issues in their fields that still have no interest in politics or economics.

Also I don't think it's any great surprise to anybody that a simple idea is easier to communicate to people than a more complex one.

Maybe the challenge is more to engage the electorate and hold their interest than just rattle off slogans.

Glorfindel

June 12. 2012 02:08 PM

NormanK

Ad astra

Another excellent article. Thank you.
Might I add another ingredient into the mix regarding why we are so reluctant to attempt an understanding of complex issues. From your closing paragraph:

What we need from governments, economists and commentators is a way of addressing and understanding complexity, so that even if we cannot comprehend all the intricate details we can at least understand that there are reasons why things are the way they are.

The 'insiders' of political commentary have 'empowered' the population by letting them in on one of the secrets which used to be the sole province of insiders - how to recognise spin. What started out as political commentators big-noting themselves by attesting to being the only ones who can read between the lines, dig down into the detail and 'get behind the spin' thereby revealing the truth of the matter, has invaded public discourse to an ever-increasing degree. If a politician attempts to simplify a complex matter by spelling it out in easy to comprehend language and illustrative analogies someone will pop up and dismiss it as spin. After all, politicians do use a lot of spin. Good outcomes spun as bad. Bad outcomes are often spoken of in the most flattering manner possible. Indifferent outcomes can be talked up or talked down depending on the desired effect. Journalists do it all the time these days. Look at the reporting of the recent Newspoll - spin, spin, spin. With so much spinning and debunking of spin roiling around in public discourse it should not be surprising that many people will simply dismiss anything that they don't want to hear as spin. One of the first steps towards an understanding of a complex problem is the desire, the curiosity to look further into the subject. With public debate so polarised, it is far easier to just dismiss as spin any uncomplicated explanation with which we don't agree and adopt at face value an uncomplicated explanation with which we do agree. It seems that one is 'spin' and the other is the unvarnished truth. I say all of this because the moment someone tries to expand out from a simple message and say "hang on, there's a lot more going on here than meets the eye" they will be dismissed as just making excuses - spinning.

Although I admire your intentions with this article, I am inclined to think that you are preaching to the converted. If I draw on the many years when I was a disengaged voter who took no time to try to understand the complexities of issues I am left with the opinion that the majority of people vote according to pre-conceived notions of the parties involved or if they are indifferent to party politics they might shift their vote based on a single pet issue. When Hawke and Keating were restructuring the economy I voted for them because they were Labor not because I understood the detail of what they were trying to achieve. I was given the opportunity to attend university because of Whitlam's Labor government. My two older brothers (both smarter than me) were precluded from taking this option because the household simply could not afford it. Basic initiatives like support for low income families to be able to send their children off to tertiary education, support for the arts, environmental policies and a few others were sufficient for me to make up my mind which of the two major parties I would support even if I didn't understand exactly what they were trying to do. I trusted them to do it in my best interest as an Australian not as an individual. Incidents like Children Overboard reinforced my earlier decision about who I could trust to act in the country's best interests.

How does that relate to the current topic? People who are undecided or disgruntled at present are not necessarily expressing their final judgement when they respond in opinion polls at this point of the electoral cycle and most of them will never attempt to understand the complexities of the problems and opportunities that the current government faces. In twelve months time if the economy is relatively strong and the myths around carbon pricing have been debunked or, more realistically, just drifted away, people will go back to their party affiliations or decide to stick with this mob because they are doing a pretty good job or opt to vote for one side or the other according to a pet issue that is prominent in their lives at that point. NSW irrigators are unlikely to shift in their opposition to the MDBP and will vote accordingly. Professional fishermen will have an issue front and centre for them come the next election. I seriously doubt that many undecided voters will attempt to understand the complex issues that should influence their vote. And if they turn to the media to have these complexities explained, well they will be none the wiser.

So, I would contend that to a certain degree the majority of people get just the level of complexity that they desire (i.e. almost none) and are more likely to vote according to the lived experience rather than the theory behind a reform. This means that major reforms will only be spoken of in simplistic terms during an election campaign, the winner will implement them during their term and voters will judge the outcome at the next election.
Does this promote a robust debate from a well-informed, engaged electorate? No.
Do we have a well-informed, engaged electorate? I believe not.
Do the vast majority of people want that to change? I believe not. We are far too lazy and just .... well ..... busy.

NormanK

June 12. 2012 02:45 PM

Ad astra

Glorfindel
I expect you’re right when you say that most people are not interested in economics or politics, and therefore do not wish to address the complexities therein.  I’m not sure that you are right about most people being able to engage in a discussion of the complexities of a subject in which they are interested, such as football.  A few may, and we hear football commentators do that, but, although I’ve followed AFL for over fifty years, I for one do not understand the complexity that abounds in modern day football, so different from when ‘the long kick to a pack’ right down the field was the norm in my early days.  It is now much more complex and I would need someone to explain the various game plans that coaches create week after week, and how they deploy their players to carry them out.

So it boils down to making complex things interesting enough to engage people’s attention and simple enough to understand, even in outline.  As educators we do this routinely, otherwise no one would learn, except through self-learning and experience.  We have been advocating for a more professional and proficient Government media unit to craft messages, not mindless slogans, which would appeal to a largely disinterested electorate.  That would be hard but not impossible.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 03:05 PM

jane

Ad astra @1.23pm, I agree. There is very little these days (and I suspect at any point in time) when things that challenge and affect us in other ways as individuals or as societies are simple.

I do think that these days there are many more things that we have to try and understand and address than previously. This is not to say that there were less complex issues to think about, but that far fewer were in the public domain.

I think we'd all agree that never has there been such an enormous range, quantity and quality of information, literally at our fingertips in human history.

Want to buy a car? There are hundreds, thousands, of sites available to us just a Google search away. The same goes for anything that pops into our minds.

We are constantly bombarded with instant information-tv, print media, radio, the internet in a way that we never have been before!

It's not that long ago that most people had little to no thoughts or opinions about economic or monetary policy. In fact, I'd bet they didn't know it existed, except in the vaguest possible way. We let the "experts" deal with it.

Not so now. We are now more deeply involved in the intimate details of the workings of governments than ever before. Great gobs of information, largely conflicting, are tossed at us.

We have our noses directed into every aspect of politicians' lives and the 10 second bite rules.

Most of us can't begin to understand and grapple with the complex issues facing us or even realise how complex they are, when the 10 second bite reduces them to a three word slogan which changes daily.

And any attempts to engage us on complex issues like climate change are sabotaged in favour of the usually negative, glib three word slogan. At least JBP used a 5 word slogan, although the content had no more substance.

Although it worries me that Liealot thinks climate change is crap, it worries me a great deal more that it's not a genuinely held conviction based on evidence, it's just a strategy he thinks will get him into the Lodge.

Ultimately, I think a lot of us have put complex issues in the too hard basket. There's too many shouting at us and giving us earache.

Much easier to soothe the aching brain with a nice meaningless three worder.

I watched the replay of QandA earlier. I was surprised; even Wormtongue wasn't quite as bad as I expected, most of the questions were very good and the PM shone as I expected.

I really enjoyed the Liealot-free zone she created and her crack about choosing one's jackets carefully if one aspires to high office was just perfect.

I also thought the dad (can't remember his name) whose son is gay was outstanding. Hopefully, he will see the day when he can attend his son's wedding.

  

jane

June 12. 2012 03:11 PM

Ad astra

NormanK
Thank you for your most thoughtful and comprehensive response, and your kind remarks.

I’m sure you are right – this piece preaches to the converted.  The unconverted would scarcely bother reading beyond the first paragraph.  My motivation in writing this was to draw attention to the problem complexity creates in the political sphere.  Complexity has long been an interest of mine in the field of medicine.  I have encountered difficulty in engaging even the most intelligent in a discussion of it and the related science of systems theory.  It is all too hard, yet for generalist disciplines it is essential for meaningful practice. The alternative is a formulaic ‘one size fits all’ approach that is unsuitable in generalist fields where any conceivable problem can walk in the door.  Some doctors prefer a specialist discipline where the variables are limited, the complexity is lower, and the management options less comprehensive.

I hope everyone will read and re-read what you have written and absorb its gems.  I liked: ”The 'insiders' of political commentary have 'empowered' the population by letting them in on one of the secrets which used to be the sole province of insiders - how to recognise spin. What started out as political commentators big-noting themselves by attesting to being the only ones who can read between the lines, dig down into the detail and 'get behind the spin' thereby revealing the truth of the matter, has invaded public discourse to an ever-increasing degree. If a politician attempts to simplify a complex matter by spelling it out in easy to comprehend language and illustrative analogies someone will pop up and dismiss it as spin.

As you indicate, ‘spin’ is a dismissive word, perhaps used inappropriately when the user really wants to say, but is embarrassed to do so, ‘I don’t understand this, so I’ll dismiss it as spin’ – case closed.

If journalists would only read: “People who are undecided or disgruntled at present are not necessarily expressing their final judgement when they respond in opinion polls at this point of the electoral cycle and most of them will never attempt to understand the complexities of the problems and opportunities that the current government faces. In twelve months time if the economy is relatively strong and the myths around carbon pricing have been debunked or, more realistically, just drifted away, people will go back to their party affiliations or decide to stick with this mob because they are doing a pretty good job or opt to vote for one side or the other according to a pet issue that is prominent in their lives at that point, we might have less of ‘If an election were to be held today…”

There is much wisdom in your concluding paragraphs.  So why do I bother writing about complexity.  I believe that within the Fifth Estate there are those who, with an awareness of the issue of complexity, can and will go forth with renewed vigour to combat, in a variety of ways, the disinformation, the simplistic slogans, indeed the spin that abounds, and help voters towards a deeper understanding of the real issues, no matter how complex.  Idealistic? Maybe.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 03:26 PM

Ad astra

jane
Thank you for your thoughtful additional comment.

Your remark about climate change triggered in my mind the complexity of its science.  Only climate scientists understand its complexity, and maybe some do not fully understand.  We, who are not climate scientists, then have only two options – try to read and understand the complexities of global warming, or take their opinions on trust.  That is the option I have taken.  Sometimes that is what we have to do.

It is much harder for politicians to have the voters take them on trust, because voters feel they have been let down too often, lied to, and subject to spin, a refined form of lying when its not just gilding the lily.  So they have to try harder.  That is where a really professional Government media unit might help.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 03:40 PM

Michael

Bad Abbott.

OK, I do actually get it, but...

What I don't get is how Shouldabeen can come out with a statement that 'only people on welfare can afford to have babies', which essentially boils down to classic Conservative class-warfare disparagement, that he can say it within weeks of maintaining that the School Kids Bonus payments will go into poker machines, that both of these statements get wide public exposure, and...

Australians still don't get it that this guy hates ordinary people. That he is wedded to the mindset that sees anyone without a private school education and the easy road laid out for them by 'who you know' is someone who can be led by the nose, fooled by extreme opinions, lied to with simplistic, scary notions.

Tony Abbott doesn't even know how to truly be a leader for everyone living in the Australian nation. He seems to think dropping "fair dinkum" into every statement about underdeveloped overhyped slogan-policies proves he's dinky-di, a true Aussie, a man of the people, the straight-talking bloke in the front bar.

And people keep falling for it, no matter how many times he says things in the company of his 'real' audience, most recently North Shore wives and mothers at pre-school coffer klatches and industry 'leaders' paying through the credit card make-it-disappear-into-expenses noses 'signature speech' events, that display just how locked in to white middle-class closed-gate communities of the narrow mind he truly is.

There is nothing fair dinkum about Tony Abbott. Nothing. Every utterance, every sands-shifting of position, every hollow attempt to identify with a broader population he clearly thinks of as no more than fodder for the bosses, is manifestly obvious in rehearsed-lines percussive but off-topic silenced voice, lowering eyes, and smug smirking for the press gallery mouth.

Should he ever snake-oil his way into leading this nation, he will lead it nowhere.

Complexity and Tony Abbott? Different planets.

Michael

June 12. 2012 03:44 PM

LadyInRed

Talk Turkey - thank you. Ginger and Lucille - need I say more - very funny but also very touching.

I'm glad Tony Jones is getting a roasting around the blocks, he deserves it. His knitting needle swipe was low. The PM engaging well, defenses down, having a giggle willing to show a more personable, even vulnerable side of herself and whack.....in comes Tony....nasty piece of work.

I have watched the beginning of the program again and a lot of the rest and she definitely did not say 'moving forward'.

This was a nasty bit however, and a waste of time for a show where Tony is always banging on about time:

Jones : Your colleagues taking the nuclear option to Keven Rudd to destroy any possibility that he might come back as leader

Julia: I don't really agree with your characterisation there Tony

Jones: what well how would you characterise it...

Julia: well oh I (Tony interupts)

Jones: well how ....would you characterise it as puting two stakes in his heart so he would never rise again

Julia: laughing that's why you get paid as a colourful commentator and I get paid for being Prime Minister.

Jones (looking indignant): "I get paid for telling the truth as well"

Jones thinks his sensational opinion is truth - and therein lies a lot of the problem. Rudd is not, and never was a helpless victim.  

LadyInRed

June 12. 2012 04:05 PM

NormanK

LadyInRed

Is that from a transcript? If so would you mind providing a link please?
I had forgotten the "I get paid for telling the truth as well" retort so I'm sure there are more gems that I have forgotten and I have no wish to gaze upon Mr Jones face any more than I have to.
He's a piece of work that bloke.

Congratulations on your Gravatar. This site seems to have a disproportionate number of redheads. I wonder what that says?

NormanK

June 12. 2012 04:18 PM

Jason

NormanK,
        http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s3517695.htm

Jason

June 12. 2012 04:26 PM

Jason

NormanK,
       Click on transcript and scroll down to "voters stopped listening" you'll find it there!

Jason

June 12. 2012 04:33 PM

Glorfindel

HI Ad Astra,

I do miss Lindsay Tanner on the political stage if for nothing else his ability to treat the electorate like they were intelligent adults capable of following a complex discussion. (Or at least that's how I viewed him).

There's a good book out there that I can recommend

Don't Get Fooled Again: A Sceptic's Handbook: The Sceptic's Guide to Life

www.amazon.co.uk/.../1848310528

If you've ever read it there are some amazing parallels between the tobacco industry's response to smoking related health issues and the high-carbon industry's response to climate change.

I don't know if climate change is that complex. Carbon dioxide traps heat the more co2 in the atmosphere the more heat will be trapped.

Ok, ok I'll admit the details are going to be quite complex but in a nutshell isn't that it? The complexity comes when well funded pro polluting industry types start dragging all sorts of red herrings into the debate.

Much like the tobacco industry did.

Hey NormanK

I'm often curious as to how voters make their decisions. Whenever I've been handing out it's been stressed that there are some people approaching the polling booth that are yet to make up their mind how they are voting. Which I find quite amazing.

I do wonder if some times the "noise" from the MSM has a cumulative effect ? That is even if people aren't paying much attention to the detail for the news if things like "strong economy" will sink in ?

I also wonder how some people get "rusted on" to a particular party? Those types who just wouldn't change their vote regardless.

Hey Jane,

Not only is there more information available than ever before it's happening in an era where "time-poverty" can be an issue for some.

Glorfindel

June 12. 2012 04:54 PM

LadyInRed

NormanK no that was my own transcript, but I see someone has provided a link to the text, that wasn't available earlier on today. I am going to have a look at it now. I loved her Mabo analogy and the Federal Police / Ted Ballieau was a goody as well.

LadyInRed

June 12. 2012 05:00 PM

Psyclaw

Jane

If he emigrated to anywhere, the political scene here would show an immediate, marked improvement.

I think that even if we raffled him to other nations, (100 tickets for $1) the winner would refuse to accept the prize when they did just a teensy weensy bit of research into who and what he is.



Michael

What I don't get is how Shouldabeen can come out with a statement that 'only people on welfare can afford to have babies',

and

he can say it within weeks of maintaining that the School Kids Bonus payments will go into poker machines, that both of these statements get wide public exposure, and...

It is obvious he can say absolutely anything and never be brought to task. I think that fact is JG's greatest stumbling block, especially if he continues to refuse real I/Vs.

Psyclaw

June 12. 2012 05:10 PM

DMW

This interesting (well it is to me)

Katharine Murphy ‏@murpharoo
Essential poll. Trust in federal parliament. September 2011: 55 per cent. June 2012: 22 per cent.

Katharine Murphy ‏@murpharoo
Essential poll. Better Prime Minister? Julia Gillard 37 per cent. Tony Abbott 37 per cent. Don't know 26 per cent.

Katharine Murphy ‏@murpharoo
Can anyone guess one institution that people trust more now than they did last September?

Katharine Murphy ‏@murpharoo
Not the RBA, the Queensland Government or pub toilets.

D Mick Weir ‏@dmickweir
@murpharoo the print media? whoa now that wld be worth a story or seven ;)

Katharine Murphy ‏@murpharoo
Round of applause please for: “@jdub: @murpharoo The ABC. Or earnest, hipster cover bands.” ABC + 8 per cent.

Hooda thunk it

Our ABC ha gained in trust - umm,

D Mick Weir ‏@dmickweir
@murpharoo ABC +8% in trust. Is it cos they are getting closer to IPA & The Oz?

D Mick Weir ‏@dmickweir
@murpharoo ABC +8% oh no, I've figured it out. It's 'cos they have made Mr Reith a latter day star.

DMW

June 12. 2012 05:43 PM

NormanK

Glorfindel

It would be interesting, wouldn't it, if we could read people's minds as they make their way from the car to the polling booth? It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that a small percentage were influenced by the appearance (attractiveness) of someone handing out how-to-vote cards. Or that some of them were cranky about having to disturb their day by voting and vote according to the most recent thing that annoyed them e.g. something on the radio on the way to the polling station. It is another reason why I have so little faith in opinion polls. Look at the recent Lowy Institute Survey. Some people (if I've read it accurately) said that they were against the carbon pricing scheme because it was going to cause job losses AND it doesn't go far enough. Others were against it because it doesn't go far enough AND we are acting ahead of the rest of the world. Humans are perverse creatures and can not be measured by a simple opinion poll.

You can count me in as a 'rusted on' Labor voter. Not because I am passionate about the Labor cause or because I am unquestioning in my support for unions (they are just another group of humans - sometimes greedy, selfish, corrupt) but because in a two party system one has limited choice. Having spent my working life in the arts I have seen first hand that Labor values artistic endeavours and understands that the industry serves a social purpose. The Liberal Party insist that it should be able to pay for itself like any other commercial enterprise. What happens is that we end up with a dozen Rodney Rudes and Cats-style musicals and no innovation is promoted. As I said above, Whitlam's support for students from poor families won me over early on. If I need reminding why I shouldn't vote for the conservative side of politics I need only look at our very own Campbell Newman who is riding roughshod over process, giving jobs to the boys and gives little regard to the environment when it comes time to choose between environmental protection or commercial progress. It's really not a difficult choice. The Greens are too small and too radical at this point but I do like them having the balance of power in the Senate - a good compromise.

NormanK

June 12. 2012 05:57 PM

42 long

Tony Jones discraceful performance is the more "horrible" because it was planned. He is not "ad libbing". The whole Kevin Rudd build up was a prepared ambush ending with the Totally Pathetic Knitting Needle finale. Who prepares this stuff? Pathetic Pathetic.
As for talking over the top and interrupting her answers, Why is this idiot still employed? Rude and Dumb. A bad look on a show that has a lot of potential.
   Gillard didn't take any below the belt hits at Abbott.
  If he had been interviewed I doubt he could have been able to refrain from "Rotten" everything Tainted everything, Great big new  bad everything, But it looks like we will NEVER know. He declines to front up on Q and A. Thats a bad look for a "fair Dinkum" bloke, who's suppose to be pretty tough.

42 long

June 12. 2012 06:04 PM

Cuppa

Tony Jones' position with their ABC will only become imperiled if he ceases to mouth Liberal talking points.

Cuppa

June 12. 2012 06:05 PM

Psyclaw

DMW

It is not hard to trawl around through the media to get Fred Nerk's Poll which says that we all hate politicians, and we all hate the Gillard government. You can do it yourself in the front bar at your local.

AA's article above bears on this .... Joe Punter really knows SFA about what's going on.

Try asking anyone why Slipper and Abbott fell out. Many will say they don't know and couldn't care less. The self professed canny ones will say it was because Slipper accepted the Speakership.

Most will not have the foggiest idea about how the jigsaw of Slipper's seat, Slipper, Mal Brough, the antagonism between the Queensland LNP and the federal Lieberals, Abbott's inaction in support of Slipper, Brough's success in becoming President of Slipper's branch, Ashby, Pyne etc etc fit together.

They therefore know nothing of the motives of the various players and nothing about what's goin on.

Ditto the wider HSU matter. Ditto the dynamics of the hung parliament and the recruitment of the ripe Slipper to the Speakership.

I'm glad you qualified your first statement by  (well it is to me) As far as I am concerned, matters like these tweets are the real distractions ( about which you had something to say last week!). And they regress the cause many here are committed to.

Personally I think they should be left to rot in the twittersphere.

Psyclaw

June 12. 2012 06:15 PM

TalkTurkey

Abbortt being chiacked and taunted and challenged by many on Twitter!

Running from hard questions!

So in the general spirit of things:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDDoSb73rA8

Yes Ad astra he reminds me of a bloke I knew who used to help people shift house, he was pretty bloody casual, he'd load up his big old ute-truck vehicle with an impossible amount of stuff, it would be tied on with a few bits of string, you'd say Hey that's not safe, he'd say It can't fall off, there's nothing to hold it on!

Well the only thing that's holding Abbortt up now is there's no-one to pull him down. It is a great growing problem for them - growing in size as more people realize his unfitness for high office, and more urgent as time starts to run out for a replacement. I have been speculating ever since the election as to who that might be, and really they're knackered. Turdball is the sole one with broad appeal around the centre - but he is poison to the Far Right, and there are many in that camp. But the Far Right iself is toxic to the Moderates and all to the Left, so Morriscum and Ghunt are on the outer too. Mesma? NO-O-O-O-O-O! . . . Hockey?! Spare me days! See they've got NO-ONE!  

The Twitterverse really must be terrifying Abbortt now. (Have a look if you want some feel-goods.) For the present it is our side of politics that is opening the cuts on him, but very soon his own side will be his real problem as they realise how gangrenous he is, how offensive. And then they will be their own problem too, for leave him or bring him down they are equally stuffed. No policy, no leadership, no vision, no decency, no talent, just NO NO NO NO NO !

Keep taking those hurdles Ranga Lass, sail on Labor. Never forgetting our IndependAnts, because I think you're not just critical to our Government, but a power of good in your own right, punching above your weight in policy and direction. Wilkie you're a bit of a pain but you do have a conscience and ability, you are very distinct from the Abborttians. I think all in all this is a wondrous government, because it has to be.        

TalkTurkey

June 12. 2012 06:21 PM

Lyn

Hi Psyclaw

You said:

(Personally I think they should be left to rot in the twittersphere)

Does that mean I am wasting my time providing Twitterverse and Twitterati then

Lyn

June 12. 2012 06:48 PM

NormanK

Lyn

Let me jump in early with a opinion.
Your Twitterverse and Twitterati are worth their weight in gold, especially for the links that they so often contain.

Your hard work is much appreciated by this correspondent. Laughing

NormanK

June 12. 2012 07:13 PM

TalkTurkey

Lyn
Your time is the least wasted of all in the Twitterverse and on blogs.
What is more, your Links make everybody else's time far more valuable, with far less wasted.

Don't You Worry About That!

But I'm sure Psyclaw didn't mean to imply otherwise.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Does anyone know about internal party polling and Morgan FTF polls?

TalkTurkey

June 12. 2012 07:18 PM

Lyn

Hi Norman K

Gee I am very pleased  you jumped in NK.  Thankyou for your very kind opinion on  Twitterverse & Twitterati.

Twitterverse is supposed to be tweets with links to  Political Journalist’s articles  which are hard & time consuming to source any other way.

  Twitterati is gossip about  particular topics of general interest  eg.  Question Time, Insiders, Pressers, Q & A, etc.  or maybe a particular happening that day.

I appreciate you taking time  NormanK  to give me your feedback and your appreciation.  

Your post @ 2.08pm is superb and  your post @ 5.43pm to Glorfindel  was most enjoyable.

SmileSmile

Lyn

June 12. 2012 07:23 PM

Lyn

Hi talk Turkey

Here is Morgan results and Essential:-

Dafid‏@davidlen2
TonyAbbott to coincide with yur internal polling chicken man..Morgan, using last election prefs, has ALP 48 LNP 52 - Game on eh what Rabbot

Stephen Spencer‏@sspencer_63

Morgan 55-45. http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4790/ Essential 56-44 essentialvision.com.au/category/essentialreport Newspoll 54-46. Last Nielsen was 57-43. Average is 55.5-44.5

SmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 12. 2012 07:28 PM

Psyclaw

Lyn

Does that mean I am wasting my time providing Twitterverse and Twitterati then?

Of course not.

As I have said many times in the past, your work is invaluable to this site. I am not alone in being amazed at the number of very informative links and tweets you post, and I follow as many as time permits. I really appreciate your huge effort.

I support what TT wrote to you at 7.13pm, 101%  and then some!

My comment was just trying to say that doom and gloom information should be given minimal oxygen. Abbott hisself provides us with an elegant sufficiency of it.

Lyn, I cannot imagine any circumstance in which I would criticise you and/or your work here.

Cheers

Psyclaw

June 12. 2012 07:48 PM

Lyn

Hi Psyclaw

Thankyou for your comment, I did try to read again and hoped you just meant those crazy Katherine Murphy comments. You are my friend you know.

I do agree the  doom and gloom is perplexing.

Thankou for your kind words and feedback, your interesting and informative posts are always enjoyable.  SmileSmile

Lyn

June 12. 2012 08:05 PM

Ad astra

Glorfindel
Thanks for the link to ‘Don’t get fooled again’.  It sounds interesting.

Regarding climate change, the complexity arises not from the basic concept of greenhouse gases trapping heat in the earth’s atmosphere, but from the evidence that the globe is actually warming.  Gathering and validating that data is complex, and is where most of the argument is centered.

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 08:13 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Please do go on gathering your Twitterverse and Twitterati.  It gives us another angle on what people in politics and the media are saying.  I find the twitters you find and post here fascinating.

Thanks too for the additional poll data.  Shanas had a headline to the effect that Julia Gillard's handouts had failed to give her a bounce in the polls.  You can rely on him always to find a negative, even when there isn't one.  He knows full well that no 'bounce' is going to occur so soon, if at all.  

Ad astra

June 12. 2012 08:34 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad

You are just a pleasure to work for.

Thankyou for your magnificent article I have to read again you have put an incredible amount of indepth thought together.  I love thinkers  

I am so pleased the Twitterverse and Twitterati is adding additional interesting information to our blog, and thrilled with your comment thankyou Ad Astra.

Lyn

June 12. 2012 08:42 PM

Glorfindel

Hi NormanK ,

I think that in a Utopia the conservative view-point would make sense. Well the classic sort of small government, minimalist intervention kind of conservative.

But as we don't live in a Utopia I lean strongly towards Labor in that somebody has to stand up for the little guy.

Somebody needs to try and ensure that the kid from Inala State School has as much chance as getting to Uni and excelling there as the kid who went to the Grammar School.

And the only party that comes close is Labor. That and my socialist ol ratbag grannie who despised Mezies and thought Curtin was a saint was a very big part of my childhood.

But I am sure that some people make up their minds on the day. The people who take you how to vote material and stop, stare and read it carefully amaze me. I can't imagine walking to a voting booth and not knowing who the candidates are.

But it takes all kinds to make a world.

Funny thing with Campbell Newman I can remember when he was pro gay marriage, pro daylight savings and pro the environment.

He's changed quickly and not for the better.

Hi Ad Astra,

If you can track the book down give it a read. You'd probably find the section on pseudo news a good read as well. It's a fairly scathing look at the MSN in Brittan, which I don't imagine is worlds away from our own.

As to climate change yep the devil is in the detail. Which allows for all kinds of selective interpretation of such detail.

Glorfindel

June 12. 2012 08:45 PM

Pikiranku

One of the questions asked on Q&A last night seemed to me to embody a quite widely-held misconception - that we owe our survival during the GFC and our current prosperity to the mining industry in general and to people like Gina and Clive in particular. I know that mining actually constitutes only 9.2% of Australia's economy, but can any of you pundits out there tell me what proportion of that mining wealth is actually produced by Gina and Clive?  Even if it were as much as a quarter of that 9.2% it hardly puts them in a position to be regarded as the saviours of the nation! I thought Julia handled the question extremely well, speaking of the way industry and their employees worked together to get through the GFC.  She politely refrained from pointing out that this did not occur in the mining industry, where 15,000 workers were sacked when the going got a bit tough. Maybe that's one of the reasons why they're short of workers now.
As for Tony Jones, perhaps the ABC could send him back to TV school where he could learn the difference between an interviewer and a compere.  His job on Qanda is to compere the program not to conduct an interview - after all, he constantly spruiks it as 'the show where YOU ask the questions'.  At times there I thought the audience was going to be permanently excluded from the action because Jones was being so over-bearing, aggressive and interruptive.  NormanK you put it in a nutshell - he's a prat!

Pikiranku

June 12. 2012 09:00 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

This is amazing as everyone knows, Kathy Jackson is speaking right now at the HR Nicholl's dinner.

Of course there is a possibility the tweet could be fake, someone pretending to be Peter Reith

This is what Peter Reith has just tweeted:

Peter Reith‏@Peter_Reith
Listening to interesting speech by Kathy Jackson at HR Nicholls dinner. She wants reform of election system that Coalition should consider

Peter Reith‏@Peter_Reith
Jackson spoke so well she had most of the audience on their feet in acclamation. Her call for union electoral reform was v convincing

Lyn

June 12. 2012 09:02 PM

Tom of Melbourne

It’s not an aversion to complexity that characterises Australia, it’s an aversion to dishonesty, and that’s to be applauded.

Just as Howard was shunned because he was considered to be dishonest/shifty, so too is Gillard. A strong economy wasn’t a sufficient excuse for people to support Howard, it isn’t with Gillard either.

The electorate has proven that it is willing to embrace change, and complexity, when it is supported by ethical, transparent political leadership But it will turn against leadership that breaches its trust.

Hawke and Keating introduced far reaching reforms, beyond anything attempted by this government, it was able to do so because it retained the trust of the electorate.

Tom of Melbourne

June 12. 2012 09:20 PM

NormanK

ToM

Don't you find that all of this bile that you carry around eats away your stomach lining?
It really can't be healthy to be this unhappy all of the time.
Cheer up! Laughing

NormanK

June 12. 2012 09:25 PM

DMW

Psyclaw @ 5:00 PM
The raffle idea might be summarised this way:

First prize: A year with Tony Abbott as your leader.

Second Prize: Two years with Tony Abbott as your leader.

Sad, but we as a contry may get third prize: Three years with Tony Abbott as your leader.

DMW

June 12. 2012 09:55 PM

DMW

Psyclaw @ 6:05 PM
accept your view/comments on the twitterverse and without getting to deep and meaningless on the merits or otherwise of Twitter it has its useful purposes.

Twitter is just another form of communication that can be used or abused according to one's wants. As, for example, Lyn might attest it is a very useful resource for finding links to articles that we may not usually find.

The real point of my posting those tweets was my surprise that the trust in the ABC had risen in the last six months or so and a very jaundiced attempt on my part to tease out the possible reasons for this.

On our opinions about politicians; 'hate' may be too strong a characterisation of the general opinion as even, maybe, saying our level of distrust has increased. In my view it is as much about disappointment in our politicians as it is about 'hatred' or 'losing trust'.

That is another topic. Which is in large part covered in Laura Tingle's QE which I am still reading and it is reinforming, testing and contesting some of my views.

DMW

June 12. 2012 10:28 PM

TalkTurkey

DMW says
. . . the trust in the ABC had risen in the last six months or so . . .

. . .   . . . WHA'?

Says who else?

What then is the strength of "The ABC has gone to Hell"?

TalkTurkey

June 12. 2012 10:47 PM

Patriciawa

NormanK  It really can't be healthy to be this unhappy all of the time. Cheer up!

This was one of the points I was trying to make in the notes on my pome @ polliepomes.wordpress.com/.../ which Lyn very kindly linked to this morning.

The Coalition aren't just making the government miserable and the people amongst whom they spread alarm and despondency.
They are making themselves miserable too and probably driving some of their pollies spreading the gloom and doom message into depression and possible burn out.

I also tried to link to the point you made the other evening about all the information we are missing out on about constructive Labor research and plans for the nation's future by being bogged down in all the sleaze and slander. I couldn't manage more than a general TPS link and then copying the time of your comment.   I understand it is possible to link directly to a specific comment.  Does anyone know how?

PS  TT did you see my illustration for the pome?

Patriciawa

June 12. 2012 10:59 PM

DMW

When it comes to the masses unerstanding and acepting complexity it may be too easy to underestimate the electorates ability to do so.

In different times and circumstances it has happened that the electorate at large has embrced complexity and the need for change.

Laura Tingle in her QE talking about the Hawke/Keating deregulation era notes:
Labor's pollster recorded the mood at the time and remembers "finding ordinary people in the suburbs being at least at the first level of understanding of economics and the need for deregulation, They would use words like that. This was a revelation to us."

Hawke and Keating did have on their side a general bipatisanship about the need for reform and not the least some very able salespeople on the front benches.

Quoting Cameron again The secret to Keating's educative skill was that he was not just able to lecture, he was able to bring it home to the kitchen table. And it became something people could buy ...

We are in different times to then. We don't as often sit around the kitchen table discussing things, we have little, if any, bipartisanship, and we have been sold a few pups that negated the understanding of the reforms that Hawke, Keating and to a lesser extent Howard and Costello were able to implement.

Lady in Red commented @ 10:34 AM
During the Howard years people started to believe they could have it all, with the governments help.

I would say it a bit differently

The Howard government encouraged a return to the belief that government could provide all of what we wanted and protect us from the ravages of the outside world. Many took the stories and bribes offered hook, line and sinker and in many ways returned us to a time of governments protecting us from the outside world.

What Howard was able to do was take the responsibility of thinking about and discussing of complex and threatening problems from the people and reassure them that the government had it 'all under control.

One way of looking at it is that Howard was able to appeal to and comfort our 'innner child', cosset us, and give the kid in us some baubles to keep us quiet.

I believe, perhaps with a touch too much idealism, that before long a politician or two will wake up to the fact that the country is at a stage of development akin to a young adult about to start their own family. If they treat the elctorate as capable interdependant beings capable of seeing and understanding some of the challenges in front of us rather than kids that need cosseting they may well have a lomg term on the treasury benches.

DMW

June 12. 2012 11:03 PM

DMW

gees my spelling and proof reading skills have gone down the gurgler again. I even (mis)read it aloud before saving - shakes head.

When it comes to the masses understanding and accepting complexity ...

There are no doubt a few other bloopers Smile

DMW

June 12. 2012 11:27 PM

DMW

TT @ 10:28 PM
DMW says ... the trust in the ABC had risen in the last six months or so ...

TT'
get your facts straight. I said no such thing.

I wrote:
Hooda thunk it
Our ABC ha(s) gained in trust - umm,

after quoting the information supplied by someone else that a poll had shown an 8% increase in trust  of the ABC.

I can understand that you may not have twigged that my responses to the provider of the information expressed doubt. I can't figure how you thought I said it or even possibly agreed with the respondents to the poll.

Guess it is just the turkey living up to his name. That or me not able to understand turkey gobbles.

DMW

June 12. 2012 11:32 PM

Psyclaw


DMW

Thanks for your reply. You write:

                        our level of distrust has increased (@6.05pm)

Another view is that our actual deep, inner level of trust in politicians essentially stays fairly constant and at a level of disinterest and indifference. What changes is the perception that people express as a direct result of coaching by those who constantly say parliament is a shambles i.e. those who have a vested commercial interest in beating up stories viz the shock jocks and the MSM who now have no embarrassment at all about creating rather than just reporting the news.

When did we last (ever?) see a headline about the sensible and calm debates that occur  for the majority of each sitting day. When did we last (ever?) see a headline about local members working hard in their electorates to assist constituents with their problems.


ToM

The electorate has proven that it is willing to embrace change, and complexity, when it is supported by ethical, transparent political leadership .....Really? "Embrace"?

And who specifically are you saying provided this "ethical, transparent political leadership"

I guess it's a silly expectation that you might "put up" (i.e. some evidence as opposed to oblique smears against JG)

Lyn

Thanks for your kind words. I would send you half a dozen of those little yellow smiley things if I knew how. You deserve them.

All Swordsters

Did you see the ABC News footage (quite prolonged) of Reith and K Jackson sitting together and obviously enjoying each others' company at the HR Nicholls dinner. She has now marked her card for good.

She spoke about the need for corporate-like regulations to govern the running of unions. Like the Abbotteers, the HRN Society stands to get egg all over its face when the truth about KJ's book-keeping emerges.

Psyclaw

June 12. 2012 11:57 PM

NormanK

Psyclaw

If you're interested.

smile     Smile

grin       Laughing

tongue out    Tong  

wink      Wink    

gasp    Surprised  

embarrassed     Embarassed
  
kiss     Kiss    

smile        full colon   close bracket  { i.e. )  }
Tongue out     full colon  capital P 


wink       semi-colon  dash  close bracket 


gasp        full colon  dash  capital O 




embarrassed       full colon   dollar sign


kiss      open bracket  capital K   close bracket


DMW @ 10:59 PM

Great comment. Have we grown up enough to be treated as adults though? Think of our middle class lady on Q&A last night. Spoilt brat in my humble opinion.

NormanK

June 13. 2012 12:17 AM

DMW

Psyclaw,
I take your point about people being coached toward a view.

Another view is that our actual deep, inner level of trust in politicians essentially stays fairly constant and at a level of disinterest and indifference.

I was suggesting similar and proposing that it may be there is a greater level disappointment (because higher expectations have not been met?) and this has been mistranslated to a greater level of distrust.

I think it is a reasonable reading of our history that we have generally distrusted politicians and their motives as a group. Contradicting this we have been able to trust individual politicians particularly if we know or at least have met them.

You ask ... (hearing) about local members working hard in their electorates to assist constituents with their problems.

Another side of that coin

I am often in the situation where people come to me and complain about the services and amenities in their area. I advise them that the best course of action is to make the problems known to the appropriate public employee or, better still, their local member. Generally the response is along the lines of 'oh no, I couldn't do that'.

It has me beat, they are quite happy to spend 20 or 30 minutes and more telling me, a shitkicker with absolutely no sway or say, their problems but they won't get out of the way of their own shadows to tell someone who may actually be able to help solve their problem.

DMW

June 13. 2012 12:25 AM

DMW

Hi NK
Have we grown up enough to be treated as adults though?

Given the example you offered, and there are a lot more out there like that, I might well have to answer in the negative.

A bit more misplaced idealism perhaps but If we are treated as as adults will we behave more like adults?

btw I have just been rereading and absorbing your earlier comment and you done pretty good to eh!

I am about to toddle off and sleep on it

DMW

June 13. 2012 12:45 AM

TalkTurkey


Schnappi

Posted Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

From Poll Bludger -

Abbott not a friend to twitters.

TAWNBPM‏@TAWNBPM

“A SOCIAL networking exercise has backfired for Tony Abbott, with Twitter trolls seeking his counsel on a hoard… http://fb.me/188Y86CyO

This is so funny.

And I have always said, haven't I, that it is humour, ridicule, that will fix Abbortt's wagon . . . He is so gone! falling,Faltering, failing,  flailing . . . His fa

Faltering, flailing, falling, failing . . . His demise is coming at an amazing rate . . .

  . . . a bit fast for my liking actually . . .

Whoaaa! Slow down Comrades, we need him yet a while I think.

. . .  Well it really doesn't matter very much, because swim or sink as LOTO, Abbortt will either bring his sorry crew down himself, or be just one of the sinking crew himself when the next sorry excuse for a leader slithers up.

I love watching natural things prosper - little joeys growing into splendid independent Kangaroos, for example. I am surprised that I can draw a comparable degree of pleasure in watching political leprosy engulfing Abbortt, but I have realised why, and that is because he and all his ilk stand counter to very Life on Earth, go no further than the Qld Government's plans for the Barrier Reef . . . Fie on Abbortt. Filth.

I am doing a geeing-up war-dance in my skin these last few days. Just the beginning, like in that Ben-Hur sequence in the trireme where the beat just starts to quicken, to sound determined and powerful.

Craig Emerson, power to you. Albo. Penny. All our warriors, double the fist, narrow the eyes, set the jaw. These next few weeks will see our phoney war turn into a declared war on Phony Tony, the  skirmishing has just begun. One thing Abbortt has done for us is, by his idiot opposition, to develop y/our own fighting skills, we all know by now, this is no civilized competition in which superior intellectual argument will win the day, but a down and dirty brawl where 3-word slogans lies and nastiness have been the weapons of choice for the Abborttians.

Yet for all that, Comrades, we have not sunk to their level nor anything like it, on the contrary if anything our own side of politics has probably become more scrupulous - (well how not, when the too-powerful MSM will connive in making a federal case of a touch on the elbow, if it can hurt Labor's cause?) - But we must stay morally decent, or we have lost to them already. They are despicable and they can fight that way, while we with all the MSM against us must and do in our fight uphold decency.

Cool. Proud. Fie on Abborttians. We are decent anyway. Humanists and Goodwillians are we. We WILL win.

Abbortt is a Christian, don't forget. A Catholic at that, of the nasty type. (my say on PB btw is morally OK, even if I think all religion unspeakably ridiculous.) But Abbortt uses Catholicism as a get-out-of-gaol-free every week. Fie!

Rotten bastard. He is a traitor to my country as far as I am concerned, prepared to use false and underhand tactics to wrest power from a legitimate Government, it is beyond sedition. Neverr forget what he has subjected Craig Thomson to, this is never to be forgiven until he is no longer a threat and squashed beneath our feet. I spit on his spirit. Pell may absolve him of everything, but he will never absolve himself for losing, tee bloody hee.  

Ad astra you ask in your article, wtte which is the harder road, Abbbotians' or ours? Well oddly enough, all appearances to the contrary, the answer will prove to be ours, for theirs is going to prove impossible! Smile

(But in the meantime ours is uphill all the way, they think to segue effortlessly into power. And that is where we will defeat them.)

Your articles are wonderful Ad astra. You are the very embodiment of our Light on the Hill. When we win, your name like that of Lyn will be writ large in the political history of the blogosphere.

TalkTurkey

June 13. 2012 12:48 AM

DMW

Psyclaw,
I haven't caught up with with the Jackson HRN address (not even what the twitterverse is saying about it)

That font of knowledge NormanK hasn't found a tongue in cheek emoticon for us yet so this will have to do to presage my thoughts Tong

I am sure that they would embrace corporate like regulation to govern the running of unions just as they would embrace the Electoral Commission conducting board elections, an ABCC type body being able to interrogate board members and upper management. I am sure they would also embrace having to go before a body like Fair Work to determine their salary and benefits. I am sure that they would also embrace many of the other regulations that already govern unions applying to business and not scream that government has no right interfering in how they run their businesses.

I am not always the sharpest tool in the shed but even I can see the agenda is NO regulation for business and either regulate unions out of business at least neuter them.

DMW

June 13. 2012 12:50 AM

jane

Michael @3.40pm, there is ONE fair dinkum thing about Liealot-he is a fair dinkum w@nker!

jane

June 13. 2012 01:00 AM

DMW

... and to end my night with apologies Psyclaw but just to prove a point:

A lesson in why we should use commas courtesy of Twitter
Marc Brooks ‏@IDisposable
Commas, use them. twitter.com/.../1

DMW

June 13. 2012 02:09 AM

TalkTurkey

DMW I quoted a complete clause from here :

The real point of my posting those tweets was my surprise that the trust in the ABC had risen in the last six months or so and a very jaundiced attempt on my part to tease out the possible reasons for this.

TT @ 10:28 PM
DMW says ... the trust in the ABC had risen in the last six months or so ...

TT'
get your facts straight. I said no such thing.

Ummm . . . yes you did . . . and you quoted it as a given, whether given by you or others.

What you might have meant I was not sure. I tried to sort some sense from it but failed.  

DMW You said the following -
I wrote:
Hooda thunk it
Our ABC ha(s) gained in trust - umm,


No you didn't, you put spaces above and below the line Hooda thunk it which divorced it from relating specifically to either.
  
Anyway in the light or more the heat of what you have said I went back and found this:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Katharine Murphy ‏@murpharoo
Round of applause please for: “@jdub: @murpharoo The ABC. Or earnest, hipster cover bands.” ABC + 8 per cent.

Hooda thunk it

Our ABC ha gained in trust - umm,

D Mick Weir ‏@dmickweir
@murpharoo ABC +8% in trust. Is it cos they are getting closer to IPA & The Oz?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well I don't quite know what to make of it, no, I guess if you had a brain like a Turkey you might have trouble solving Enigmas too.

There was no clear linking of the phrases, I have no idea how to access the (dead?) links if that's what they were, but the one clear clause which I quoted precisely does have a clear meaning, and that is that there is a statement quoted by you as if of given findings that faith in the ABC has grown, well I asked, "Says who else?" I didn't find out but I sure found out you have a crook temper!

Amusingly you said quite separately
gees my spelling and proof reading skills have gone down the gurgler again. I even (mis)read it aloud before saving - shakes head.

When it comes to the masses understanding and accepting complexity ...

There are no doubt a few other bloopers
DMW

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah well Cobber what about re-reading your writings enough to know that the meanings are clear to others, never mind the spellings, because I put it to you that the post I quoted from is, no pun on Turkeys intended, gobbledegooky.

Notice, I never said nor meant that what you said was your own claim, but you said it.

Like this:

Talk Turkey said, Tony Abbortt said "Shit happens."

Now, did TalkTurkey say "Shit happens"?

Answer, yes of course he did, quoting Tony Abbortt.

I now realise that you too doubted the claim. But pardon me for failing to decipher that from what you wrote.  Not that it changes one word of what I wrote back. So who was it?



TalkTurkey

June 13. 2012 07:18 AM

Lyn

TODAY’S LINKS

No message is the message, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Tony Abbott is running on pretty much the same theme that Mark Latham did in 2004, with about the same degree of success. I'll leave it to you to work out who's the bigger boofhead, but emulating a proven failure is not conducive to "almost inevitable" electoral success on the part of "authentic" Abbott. Your guess is as good as mine about what we might expect from an Abbott government.
andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/.../...is-message.html

Putting Shame In Your Game, Wixxy, Wixxy Leaks
The Liberal Party, keen to hitch their wagon to anyone who may help them score a cheap political point, have eagerly gone along for the ride. Their involvement has clearly overstepped the mark however, as opinion polls show that people are not appreciating their “rabid dog on the attack” mentality, particularly in regards to Thomson.
wixxy.wordpress.com/.../

Jacksonville 11: The forgotten Jackson and the comeback kid, Independent Australia
Jackson herself, now in the spotlight, has some huge questions to answer in regards to allegations of corrupt practices, as evidence comes to light regarding seemingly unusual financial transactions, and conflicting public statements. Even before this evidence – first published in Independent Australia – came to light
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

CHRISTIAN PORTER: Treasurer demanded leadership hand-over or else, WA Liberals say, Vex News
We only like true rumours, like the fact former WA Treasurer and party Leader cum chair-sniffer Troy Buswell who left the missus for the highly unlikely prospect of then Greens MP Adele Carles (it was, of course, VEXNEWS that first revealed their unnatural love long before anyone in the WA media) before wisely opting to reject her into a recycling programme is now officially homeless after departing
www.vexnews.com/.../

Do carbon labels change shopping behaviour? , Jerry Vanclay, The Conversation
Voluntary reductions in emissions by households do play an important role, and groceries account for a substantial proportion of the environmental burden of the average household through production, transport, and consumption. Indeed, American researchers found that individual household purchasing generates 30-40% of US emissions.
theconversation.edu.au/do-carbon-labels-change-shopping-behaviour-7184

Slipper moves to have case thrown out, Simon Cullen, ABC
Mr Slipper's lawyers have applied to the Federal Court to have the case either thrown out or permanently stayed, and have accused Mr Ashby of starting a "vexatious proceeding".Mr Slipper is seeking legal costs from Mr Ashby.
www.abc.net.au/.../4066422

The PM, belief, and marriage equality, Jennifer Wilson, No Place for Sheep
This belief is as silly and as offensive as the belief that only heterosexuals should be allowed to marry. It’s not very long since Ms Gillard would have been prohibited from holding her current job because of ludicrous and offensive beliefs about what women should be allowed to do. Not reasons. Beliefs.
noplaceforsheep.com/.../

Tony Abbott’s Industrial Relation policy, getting paid and safe workplaces are “burdens, Turn Left 2013
Tony Abbott gets on twitter and does an “Ask Tony” (#askTony), in todays session, Abbott restated his well-known belief that belonging to a worker’s union is an impediment to business owners making money. Of course, business owners can get together in “Associations” and fight for more money, that is acceptable
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

As the heir abdicates, Barnett is left with an opportunity, Dylan Caporn, Body Politic Australia
For many, Mr Porter was seen as the natural successor to Mr Barnett as Premier. Well spoken, good with the media, a competent minister, and he appeals to both the voters and the party base. However, this obviously wasn’t Mr Porter’s intention, saying today that his
bodypoliticaus.wordpress.com/.../

What next for the anti-marriage Australian Christian Lobby?, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison
Well, since they declare marriage a religious institution, the next step would clearly be to ban all secular marriage. Get your own word, atheists! And Since the ACL declares children an essential
anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/.../

Economic apocalypse- Me with Felix Salmon and Tad Tietze, Peter Martin
"Is the end nigh? Is everything we know and trust in the world economy about to collapse? And if so, what might come after the economic apocalypse? The news is currently filled with grim predictions about markets and economies—sovereign debt, austerity,
www.petermartin.com.au/.../...e-me-with-felix.html

NBN in review: Budgeted and moving, is the NBN's future assured?, David Braue, ABC Technology
Turnbull's options for changing or shutting it down are getting increasingly limited every day. Analyst Paul Budde said the project was here to stay, echoing comments made by Mike Quigley. With newly updated figures suggesting Australia's below-average data consumption trend will head skyward by 2016
www.abc.net.au/.../3523331.htm

What Actually is the NBN Objective, Michael Wyers
Of course, the federal opposition through its communications spokesperson Malcolm Turnbull would love to do anything they can to halt the project as it stands, and replace it with what they believe is their cheaper, yet vastly technically inferior, and less future-proof solution.
michaelwyres.com/.../

TODAY’S FRONT PAGES
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 13 June 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Posts from the ‘Daily Fix’ Category
australianpoliticstv.org/category/daily-fix/

Lyn

June 13. 2012 08:07 AM

2353

life has stopped me commenting for a few days so firstly thanks AA for another thought provoking piece.  Secondly, the few minutes I saw of Q&A showed Gillard well and truly in the asendancy over Jones - a good putdown (they're not planning on replacing you?) wins more than just saying "NO" in the end.  Thirdly, Lyn - keep those tweets and links coming, it is interesting to see what others are thinking, making them a valuable source for the time poor - like me Wink

While getting ready for work this morning I had the Channel 10 Breakfast Show on (not convinced who is worse yet - Koch, Stefanovic or Henry).  Interesting ad for Ten's Queensland News claiming we're the only news in the State that runs for an hour, givinging us the time to cover the issues in depth.  I don't have the foggiest what Channel 10's 5pm news rates in Queensland but it shows there is a perceived market for detailed reporting.

DMW @ 00:17 today (apart from wondering what you were doing here then) - you're correct.  I've also noticed that people will spend a considerable time detailing their tale of woe to those that they perceive will "lend a sympathic ear" without having the will to tell someone that can actually make a difference the same story.  

Is it that the people who could make a difference are seen as too remote or too "important"?  There seems to be a disconnect that while the Government should provide, there is an equally strong view that an individual's problem is usually not important enough for an MP (or someone with some "authority") to either care or respond.  

I think a lot of it stems back the the "relaxed and comfortable" days of the past where you just didn't question "authority" such as doctors, lawyers, MPs, those with uni degrees, accountants, JPs etc, trusting in the belief that they will provide the correct advice and information.  While it's bunkum - "authority" figures can be just as wrong as anyone else (I'm in at least one of the groups above), Howard's Government reinforced the view that the previous ALP Governments had to some extent distilled.  LOTO is playing on it as well.

I have suspected the tide has turned to some extend and the LNP has "overcooked" it.  When Fairfax is printing articles suggesint the RBA is right and the glass is half full, and News is printing what was in effect a conversation with Gillard - there is hope.

2353

June 13. 2012 08:33 AM

Psyclaw


NormanK .....thanks muchly. Smile

Lyn .... Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile  (owed)

Swordsters
Fran Kelly has this morning done a really excellent I/V with James McKenzie, Chairman of Mirvac. Or should I say he has made an excellent speech, despite her. (At one stage she tried to get into the “the government could end any day” theme and he put her in her place so politely, so firmly “isn’t the election 18 months away Fran?”).

Anyway the”speech” was about our relatively great economy and the need for Business to get moving, be positive, do their bit. It was as though JG or Mr Swan or Emmo or AA or TT or NormanK  or I or any other reasonable person with half a brain had written his script.

Three things stood out for me:

(1)  He emphasised that “economics” is all about confidence.
(2)  He said that he’s just been on an investor roadshow in North America and that they envy Australia so much.
(3)  He quoted recent research which he described as bizarre ie that consumer confidence in Spain with all its woes and 24% unemployment is much greater than the same measure here.

We all know which moronic, self serving grub is behind this and who is happiest when the electorate is whinging. I'll post the link when available.

On another issue Alberici introducing the Business Forum topic on Lateline News said "the PM pleaded with Business"....... huh!!!

Even Fran Kelly this morning said "the PM urged Business ...." and on AM (7.10am on RN for those who want it earlier than 8.00am) the interviewer said "the PM asked business ...."

I doubt that our hero needs ever to plead, being the great negotiator she is. Cajolers are the ones who resort to pleading when all else fails...... "Please, please ..... just give me the Lodge keys and I'll be a good boy!!!!"

TT

Did you see Canberra RC Archbishop Power on Lateline. Think you would concur with some of his "blasphemy".


Psyclaw

June 13. 2012 08:33 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 08:43 AM

Psyclaw

I said last night that KJ had "marked her card" by her HR Nicholls speech.

This morning the emerging news showed that she used an indelible pen.

Words to the effect "the members were enthralled by her exposition of all the rorts by unions" and "she told how unions are the financial launch pad for aspiring politicians" and that "Bill Shorten is the International Grand Master of this rort" and that as a union leader "Bill Shorten was like the vampire in charge of the blood bank."

I honestly believe this woman may have experienced a brain injury in her past.

ReCaptcha ace: ishous LODGE  ("I choose Lodge") .........beat that!!!!!!!

Psyclaw

June 13. 2012 09:49 AM

LadyInRed

Tom of Melbourne.

"The electorate has proven that it is willing to embrace change, and complexity, when it is supported by ethical, transparent political leadership But it will turn against leadership that breaches its trust."

This is more of the same simplistic notions that I think Ad astra is trying to cut through. Which government has been totally transparent - ever (and I mean EVER) - you live in some sort of utopian land of nonsense. Life is complex. Politics is complex. Governing is complex. Power is complex. People are incredibly complex. To a large extent the ellectorate is led by the nose by the media. The meadia have a lot to answer for. It truly does depend on how they spin the politics, and the more they spin the politics the less we hear about policies.

For example Q&A - I truly think that Tony Jones saw how good the PM was doing and set about changing that quick smart. As posted in previously on this site Q&A is supposed to be questions by the audience not a Tony Jones "projects his own questions" that he thinks the audience should ask because they are sensational and make his program more edgey. He has a vested interest in keeping things interesting - he took a complex situation like KRudd and reduced it to a couple of jabs to score points.


LadyInRed

June 13. 2012 09:56 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad adn Everybody

Twitterverse for you:-

IndependentAustralia‏@independentaus
What has happened to "our #ABC" asks Denise Allen. #media http://fb.me/1shiy19YZ

John Hanna‏@John_Hanna
No wonder @Peter_Reith was tweeting so joyously last night. He was sitting next to Kathy. #TheRapture #Fin http://goo.gl/zF2v1

Financial Review‏@FinancialReview
HSU's Kathy Jackson says union democracy is a sham [free] http://bit.ly/Lkwjjw #auspol

chris murphy‏@chrismurphys
Forgive me my sins."I'm no political virgin'.Suspended Union boss Jackson kisses feet of Saint TonyAbbott #auspolwww.theage.com.au/.../...d-foe-20120612-208iq.html

MM@newsfeedAU‏@newsfeedAU
DobellThommo www.businessspectator.com.au/.../HSU-suspends-Williamson-Jackson-six-others-pd20120612-V7N9T {3} Interim Administrator suspends 8 officials incl Kathy Jackson

National Times‏@NationalTimesAU
HR Nicholls Society hails "lioness" Kathy Jackson www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120612-208iq.html via @NationalTimesAU

Toastman‏@toastman51
HSU put on life support www.smh.com.au/.../...-support-20120612-208bj.html via @smh No mention of Jackson's attempt to destroy union movement using lies & deception!

RichardTuffin‏@richardtuffin
Wacko Jacko... RT @smh: National News: Kathy Jackson compares Shorten to Dracula http://bit.ly/LYJl7t #australia

Space Kidette‏@SpaceKidette
It says a lot that the only people who give Kathy Jackson an ear are right wing shills. #auspol

Chris Barrett‏@selga55
Phone home Kathy Jackson um from the pay phone #ausunions #HSU bosses have their phones cut www.theage.com.au/.../...s-cut-20120612-208io.html via @theage

National Times‏@NationalTimesAU
Officials out, HSU put on life support www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120612-208bj.html via @NationalTimesAU

Marian Smedley‏@MarianSmedley
So #abcnews24 doesn't bother to mention that Kathy Jackson has been suspended from her role as National Secretary of HSU! No credibility.

vexnews‏@vexnews
Suspended HSU boss Kathy Jackson spends the night with union-busting Liberal Peter Reith #auspol http://vexne.ws/ck http://pic.twitter.com/OruNjoZS

Financial Review‏@FinancialReview
Video | Julia Gillard calls for ideas on corporate tax and labour mobility at the economic forum in Brisbane [free] http://bit.ly/LiTkoB

Toastman‏@toastman51
Murdoch wanted policy change, Major tells Leveson www.abc.net.au/.../4066998 @abcnews Gina has been told control media & you control government!

The Daily Telegraph‏@dailytelegraph
NSW workers to rally over compo: THOUSANDS of workers from all over NSW will protest today against the state gov... http://bit.ly/LSB0DX

Stephen Ragell‏@TheAviator1992
Be careful Mr Robb, Tony once claimed to support Malcolm Turnbull but we all saw how that worked out #auspol www.smh.com.au/.../...s-abbott-20120612-208ak.html

Greg Jericho‏@GrogsGamut
RT @cjoye: RBA governor handicapping household wealth growth at 3% real pa http://goo.gl/fb/jtu13

Crikey Pure Poison‏@PurePoison_Blog
#AskTony - Abbott's attempt to make it look like he's open for questions (but not on #Lateline or #QandA) backfires http://bit.ly/LZmPce

Lyn

June 13. 2012 09:57 AM

Psyclaw


Here is the link to the Mirvac Chairman I/V with (NOT "by") Fran Kelly today.

Compulsory listening for anyone interested in a non-Abbottteer view of our economy by somone who knows.

www.abc.net.au/.../4067536

But when will the Business leaders actually come out and tell Abbott to wake up to hisself ????

Psyclaw

June 13. 2012 10:02 AM

DMW

2353 @ 8:07 AM
Is it that the people who could make a difference are seen as too remote or too "important"?
Good point, I think you are onto something there (and with what followed)

I will cogitate it.

TT @ 2:09 AM
I most humbly bow to your Superiority. I thank you for teaching me that when I start a new paragraph it bears no relationship to the previous paragraph. I thank you also for pointing out what should have been obvious to me that a new comment negates anything written in a previous comment. I also thank you for reminding me of a lesson which it is obvious I have forgotten as I have written these words.

DMW

June 13. 2012 10:12 AM

Psyclaw

One interesting comment from the James McKenzie I/V was his view that "industrial relations is not about balaclavas and dogs".

Why have we not heard more from him over the past two years of Abbottcrap !

Psyclaw

June 13. 2012 10:16 AM

LadyInRed

Lyn thanks for you links.

Gosh Peter Wicks has uncovered some very interesting stuff about Jackson.

And....bless his little cotton socks....the video ..oh the video is gorgeous is it not? Alan Jones cottaging in a London public toilet no less. The finger pointing, self serving, moralistic lunatic Alan Jones, caught in a public toilet gratifying himself sexually. Glass houses Alan?

LadyInRed

June 13. 2012 10:19 AM

DMW

On a completely different topic.

Kudelka's cartoon hits a mark and gives me pause to wonder how many other things work in a similar way.

www.kudelka.com.au/2012/06/the-dingo-dunnit/

DMW

June 13. 2012 11:02 AM

2353

DMW @10:02

Remote being that if I rocked up to my Federal MP's office today and wanted to speak to *him* I reckon he wouldn't be available (and for some reason some people don't want to speak to "the staff").

Important being that the impression that "my little problem" isn't worthy of your attention - while boring the pants off all my aquaintances (plus the people I sit next to on the bus to town) with the issue anyway.

I would have enjoyed your other comment on grammar however I'm sure there was some carefully hidden but fundamental mistake in the formation of the paragraph which I'll now obsess about for at least six hours.Wink

Have a good day. Laughing

2353

June 13. 2012 11:03 AM

TalkTurkey

From Poll Bludger:

* * *

Laocoon

Posted Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 10:32 am | Permalink

leroy 1520


Tony Abbott's Twitter question and answer session backfires
Jessica Marszalek From: Herald Sun June 12, 2012 5:55PM

A SOCIAL networking exercise has backfired for Tony Abbott, with Twitter trolls seeking his counsel on a hoard of ridiculous topics.

www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-fn7x8me2-1226393407460

Well, blow me down. Who is there on twitter alongside Abbott but…


Alan Kohler ‏@AlanKohler
Tch. No one's taking #asktony seriously. Typical. Cmon people, the man has reached out!

**shocked** And to think he is on the ABC too – who would have thought it!

I wonder if that was “common people” but he ran out of 140 characters

* * *

Thanks Laocoon, yes, hilarious as I said yesterday!

Dare Abbortt ever come on Twitter again? I think the 5th Estate is a close shop afa he's concerned! Just through the power of ridicule!

But the other thing is, Is Kohler serious or tongue-in-cheek?
Please don't answer Yes!

TalkTurkey

June 13. 2012 11:10 AM

42 long

  I think Alan IS serious. After all he features prominently on the "NEW" ABC.

42 long

June 13. 2012 11:21 AM

DMW

Hi 2353,
It is wonderous to behold new learnings (is that oxymoronic? If I learn something at the time of learning it is new to me).

This new par does have some connection to the previous as it is in the same comment. I am new to this paragraph formation and disconnection thing and am still learning from the great master of all that there is to behold.

Disconnection. I trust that your extended period of obsessing brings illumination and not angst. Wink

Hi Ho, hi ho, it is off around the traps I must go with great ponderations to perform.

DMW

June 13. 2012 11:39 AM

Patriciawa

Lady in Red - love the image, Lucille, and nearly always agree with with your comments.  

This time I'm taking the opportunity to say that I wish the issue of A Jones and his past misbehaviour and awful character hadn't been used by Peter Wicks and Independent Australia.  The evidence on Jackson and her mulcting HSU of their funds over the years is surely enough. Getting down and dirty on one or two of her supporters is hardly relevant and is lessening the impact of their revelations.

Patriciawa

June 13. 2012 11:54 AM

42 long

You're correct I believe. there is enough "Good" stuff without diluting it. If the LNP run hard on KJ's words they will have to weigh the stuff against her, and assess the risk. I think they will take the risk, and will make out that anything spoken agaist her will be attacking the poor defenseless "Heroine".

42 long

June 13. 2012 12:08 PM

NormanK

What on earth is Kathy Jackson up to? She has stuck her neck out so far that it will require only one proven case of maladministration to cause her to lose her head. This has the potential to be the biggest scandal of this term of government. Forget Thomson. Forget Slipper.

At one end of the spectrum is the possibility that all of what Jackson alleges is in fact true and that none of the allegations against her have any basis in fact. This would mean that corruption in the union movement is widespread and reaches all of the way to the heart of the current ALP government. Kaboom!

At the other extreme is the possibility that all of what she alleges is untrue and many of the allegations against her have some basis in fact. In this case she will be brought down with a mighty crash and considerable collateral damage will be done to conservative forces that have conspicuously supported her to date. Kaboom!

The truth probably resides somewhere in between these two extremes which means that both sides of politics will be walking on eggshells as they wait to see which narrative stands up to objective assessment. This is a ticking time-bomb that might not show any discrimination in who or what it destroys, including our rapidly diminishing faith in our federal politicians.

Without casting aspersions on her mental state, I would have to say that Jackson is crazy brave, making powerful enemies on what should be her own side of politics and climbing into a metaphorical (if not literal) bed with powerful forces that would normally be her natural enemy who will show no loyalty to her if things turn pear-shaped. I would be very interested to hear just what Kathy Jackson thinks will be the very best outcome for her. Standing in the midst of the enemy and watching her bridges burn, she must have a vision of being on hand to rebuild that which she has destroyed.

Strange days indeed.

NormanK

June 13. 2012 12:10 PM

Ad astra

Good Morning Lyn
I’ve read almost all of your links and all of the Twitterverse.  What a collection!

First, thanks for the addition of the ‘Daily Fix’ Category of Australian Politics to your links, a useful collection of videos from many sources that I have not seen in one place before.

I enjoyed reading your top-of-the-links piece by Andrew Elder No message is the message which describes so accurately the Abbott messaging tactics – as Andrew points out, he seems to have no strategy.  It tallies with the last piece on TPS: Does Tony Abbott have a Plan B?.  His answer is NO.

andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/.../...is-message.html

Then we read about Abbott’s abortive attempt to communicate via Twitter, which by all accounts was a failure as recorded by Jeremy Sear on Crikey blogs.crikey.com.au/.../  

That is, except for one journo who, in writing it up, blamed the trolls for their rude or silly questions: www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-fn7x8me2-1226393407460 ) and Alan Kohler tweeted: Tch. No one’s taking @asktony seriously.  Typical. C’mon people. This man has reached out. which tells us a lot about Kohler.  Poor Tony – here he was ‘reaching out’ and the trolls made fun of him.

There has been a plethora of comment last night and this morning.  I’ll try to catch up after lunch.

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 12:42 PM

Ad astra

2353
Thank you for your complimentary remarks.  I agree with your comments about Q&A.  Tony Jones does not like our PM; he seems to be a Rudd man, and seems still to be angry about his being ‘backstabbed’.   His nasty quip about the knitting needle in the back reflects these sentiments.  When she put him in his place his eyes looked very angry.  He has morphed from being a compère into an inquisitor.

Your conclusion rings true: I have suspected the tide has turned to some extent and the LNP has "overcooked" it.  When Fairfax is printing articles suggesting the RBA is right and the glass is half full, and News is printing what was in effect a conversation with Gillard - there is hope.

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 01:31 PM

Ad astra

Psyclaw
Fran Kelly’s interview with James McKenzie, Chairman of Mirvac, was well worth the twelve minutes listening.

www.abc.net.au/.../4067536

Despite Fran’s attempts to turn towards the negative by twice questioning how long the Gillard Government would last, he batted all that away and gave a very positive account of this nation’s position and prospects.  We need more of this talk from business leaders in place of the negative, whingeing, rent-seeking talk we hear all too often.

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 01:45 PM

Ad astra

LadyinRed
I enjoyed reading your response to ToM: ”This is more of the same simplistic notions that I think Ad astra is trying to cut through. Which government has been totally transparent - ever (and I mean EVER) - you live in some sort of utopian land of nonsense. Life is complex. Politics is complex. Governing is complex. Power is complex. People are incredibly complex. To a large extent the electorate is led by the nose by the media. The media have a lot to answer for. It truly does depend on how they spin the politics, and the more they spin the politics the less we hear about policies.”  

How true, complexity abounds and yet all we’ve had from our would-be PM, Tony Abbott, is a gutful of simplistic solutions, silly slogans and meaningless mantras.

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 01:45 PM

Psyclaw


42 Long

I think you are well on the money. I have no doubt Kohler was being serious. He rarely (ever?) offers any criticism of Abbotteering and is quite happy to talk down the PM.

Many think he is an ABC employee. He is in fact a freelancer who has an arrangement with the ABC to make financial comments for them.

Psyclaw

June 13. 2012 02:01 PM

Patriciawa

To semi-quote you, NormanK.
I would have to say that Jackson is crazy

With that speech to the HRN Soc she has openly cast her lot with the Liberals.  One could say she had already done that when she took up residence with Michael Lawler.   How conscious she is of the political signicance of both decisions is questionable.  She seems always to be the opportunist, thinking only of her own personal advantage, and now probably her own survival.

She may think her only chance now is for Labor to lose government.  That's where I would agree with your description crazy bravebecause if criminal charges do follow now that the HSU is in administration then surely no government can save her from due process in our courts. She'd be a huge political negative for any party.  I'd imagine her being cut adrift by the Coalition.

Although 42 long thinks they will take the risk, and will make out that anything spoken agaist her will be attacking the poor defenseless "Heroine".

But criminal charges?  

Patriciawa

June 13. 2012 02:07 PM

Psyclaw

Moodys today confirmed our AAA rating.

They cited:

1) good, diverse economy
2) strong banking sector
3) low government debt

About time the Business leaders did what JG urged them to do last night ...... extract their digit and start speaking out against doomsayers ..... hard for them to do because it means saying Swan is good/Abbott is bad.

Psyclaw

June 13. 2012 02:07 PM

Ad astra

NormanK
I’m asking the same question: ‘What on earth is Kathy Jackson up to?’

You say: “Without casting aspersions on her mental state, I would have to say that Jackson is crazy brave, making powerful enemies on what should be her own side of politics and climbing into a metaphorical (if not literal) bed with powerful forces that would normally be her natural enemy who will show no loyalty to her if things turn pear-shaped. I would be very interested to hear just what Kathy Jackson thinks will be the very best outcome for her. Standing in the midst of the enemy and watching her bridges burn, she must have a vision of being on hand to rebuild that which she has destroyed.”  

That is the question in view of this report in National Times:
Officials out, HSU put on life support


www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120612-208bj.html

At 4pm yesterday, the mobile phones of Health Services Union executives, including the embattled boss, Michael Williamson, and his rival, Kathy Jackson, were disconnected.
The pair, along with six other HSU East branch officials, were suspended by the interim administrator, who has given them until 4pm today to return any other union property, including credit cards and computers.

At noon yesterday, retired Federal Court judge Michael Moore became the union's interim administrator as a result of a court order by Justice Geoff Flick of the Federal Court.


I can’t find anything in the News Limited media about this although there is plenty about her appearance at the HR Nicholls Society.

Maybe, as she's out of a job, she might be looking for one with Tony Abbott, or Peter Reith, who seems enchanted with her.

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 02:11 PM

Ad astra

Psyclaw
I heard that too. Moody’s conformation of the rating of the Australian economy as AAA.  The good news keeps coming.  About time!

No doubt Joe Hockey is already saying how much better it would be with a good government, like a Coalition Government – AAAAA.

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 02:42 PM

2353

Just had a thought - does anyone else really see something wrong with a Union Leader and a judge in the Industrial Court living together?

There are all sorts of opportunity for inappropriate influence here.

2353

June 13. 2012 02:55 PM

LadyInRed

Patriciawa - I take your point about the AJones. We should try to be better than that. I couldn't, wouldn't be an AJones no matter how much money was involved. And if I were him, with what he obviously has been through you would think he would have more compassion for others. Things are never black and white. But he makes a LOT of money painting things exactly like that.

So, if Peter Wicks, and us to a certain degree, are using the argument that for Jackson to sling mud at Thomson, taking the higher moral ground as she has, is cause for concern when so much of her own back yard is very messy indeed. Then I think that those who back her and sling mud, as AJones has and does need to remember that their own closets are fair game. It really is a case of 'People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' - which the little video points out very well.

LadyInRed

June 13. 2012 02:55 PM

NormanK

2353

No. They would just chat about their day at work like any other couple. Smile
Jackson said as much on 7.30.
There is a huge story behind all of this but I do wonder whether it will all come out.

NormanK

June 13. 2012 03:00 PM

Ad astra

Folks
If you still need any convincing about the complexity of global economics, try listening to
Peter Martin speaking with other economics writers at

www.petermartin.com.au/.../...e-me-with-felix.html

It runs for around twenty minutes, but you need to listen to only the first five minutes to gauge the complexity, and become convinced that no one has the answers.  The speakers talk about some of the multiple variables, but I was left with the strong impression that none of them had 'the answer', because there isn't one.  There may be more than one, but whatever they might be, they will come about more by chance than by rational thought and planning.  Listen particularly to Felix Salmon talking about the possibilities at the end of the year in the US.  The uncertainty he describes is unnerving.

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 03:22 PM

TalkTurkey

Triple-A ratings will always be better under a Coalition Government.

TalkTurkey

June 13. 2012 03:38 PM

Ad astra

Folks
Have you see Ross Gittins’ piece in the National Times: Dear prudence, you've come back to stay?

He begins: “It's better for businesses to adapt to the way the world now works.

One of the first lessons economists teach us is that the economy moves in cycles of boom and bust. A second, trickier, lesson is that although most of the changes going on in the economy at any moment are ''cyclical'' (temporary), there may also be changes driven by ''structural'' (longer-lasting) forces.

In a speech last week, Glenn Stevens, governor of the Reserve Bank, implied that much of the ''unrelentingly gloomy'' public discussion about the economy may be caused by people mistaking structural problems for cyclical ones.

Despite the official statistics saying the economy is quite healthy, people think it is weak and want the economy's managers to get it moving by such standard remedies as a tax cut or a cut in interest rates.

But if the problem is structural - if it arises from deep-seated changes in the economic environment - such remedies will make little difference. Structural change is rarely painless, it often involves people losing their jobs and businesses failing, but it is almost always better to adapt to the way the world now works than try to resist it.

The boom in export prices and the construction of new mines arises from the historic re-emergence of the Chinese and Indian economies and is a classic example of structural change. The accompanying high dollar is helping to bring about a long-term shift of workers and capital into mining and away from manufacturing, tourism and overseas education.

But Stevens argues the resources boom is getting blamed for the problems of industries whose tough times are the product of a quite different source of structural adjustment: the markedly changed behaviour of Australian households.”


The rest of the article expands on this.  It echoes Glenn Stevens' view that Australians ought to adjust to the contemporary economic environment by saving around 10% of income.

www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120612-2081z.html

At long last it seems as if the message is that in the recent past Australians have overspent, maxed out their credit cards, were seduced by the Harvey Norman’s of this world with their ‘buy now and pay later’ mantra, bought McMansions they did not need and could not really afford, and spent more than they were earning.  The GFC scared the daylights out of them and they are now saving, now taking a more prudent approach to household expenditure, just as our parents did.  

This has led to a drop in some retail activity, for example white goods, leaving Jerry Harvey whingeing; and buying cheaper goods online, again leaving Jerry whingeing about this ‘un-Australian’ behaviour.  This is part of the structural changes that are going on, which will likely continue, leaving us with a new economic system to which we, and commerce, will need to adjust.

We live in interesting times.  Yet all this economic turmoil could be solved by just one man, Tony Abbott, and one action: repeal the toxic taxes!

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 03:49 PM

Tom of Melbourne

”One could say she had already done that when she took up residence with Michael Lawler.”

Bizarre and probably sexist. The ethics of a (female) union leader are determined by their partner??!!

Is there anything (at all) in all the sexist speculation and mud throwing  that assists to demonstrate that FWA did not make draw a reasonable conclusion about Thomson in all matters other than the AEC?

” This is more of the same simplistic notions that I think Ad astra is trying to cut through.... To a large extent the electorate is led by the nose by the media.
The major cause of the current political disaffection is dishonesty. It caused the downfall of Howard too. Abbott remains deeply unpopular, and people seem to be capable of forming an independent judgment about him, but not Gillard??

Just tell me, were people more capable of assimilating the complexity in 2007 than they are now? Were they more capable of making up their own minds then? In 5 years, why have they become more easily led by the media?

It’s been successively pointed out by eminent ALP figures, that “you have to be honest, and you can’t blame the media”.

Tom of Melbourne

June 13. 2012 04:06 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I see Paul Kelly has entered the fray with: Government must lower our great expectations in The Australian.

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg74x-1226393506153

Not prepared to let his message, one that coincides with that of Glenn Stevens, go out without giving Julia Gillard and her Government a backhander, he begins: ”The Gillard government fights something more ugly than winning acceptance of carbon pricing - it confronts a structural shift in which wealth per person has been static for five years, making people cautious, frustrated and angry.”

“This shift defines the mood of the nation, and resentment towards Julia Gillard as PM. It is tied to a paradox that makes people agitated about the public debate. Australia's economy is growing strongly but households feel anxious because wealth (not income) is under pressure.

“The evidence is apparent: house prices, the main source of wealth for people, are sliding. The sharemarket is down. Superannuation accounts, having been boosted for 25 years, are under pressure or in negative territory. There is a new age of the cautious consumer, more ready to save than spend, to discharge debt than borrow to buy new assets.


His piece generally agrees with what Stevens is saying, which is reassuring from a writer at The Oz.  He concludes:

In this context, Stevens had a harsh policy message - the Reserve Bank will not run a soft interest rate policy "to try to engineer a return to the boom". The economy needs the "right sort of confidence", not phony confidence based on runaway house prices and excessive leverage. In short, don't mistake the purpose of the current interest rate easing.

This is an exercise by Stevens in expectations management. It is reminiscent of the warning of Treasury chief Martin Parkinson that building budget surpluses in coming years will require politicians to increase taxes or further cut government spending. That means only one thing: reducing public expectations to the new reality.

In retrospect, Labor should have used the global crisis, the deepest downturn since the 1930s, to transform public expectations about entitlements instead of telling the nation nothing would change and its entire program would be delivered.

Labor has a good economic story to tell today, but it can be sold only in a climate of reform that is tied to lower expectations.


Maybe even the journos at The Oz are seeing the problem Australian have created for themselves, and that John Howard exacerbated when he handed out tax cuts, and a host of family welfare and benefits, thereby creating an ‘entitlement’ mindset.  Now the Gillard Government has to wean people off entitlement, something Paul Kelly, looking through his well-worn retrospectoscope, believes should have been done in the context of its response to the GFC.  What a pity he didn’t think of that at the time.

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 04:53 PM

Gravel

Ad Astra

You have given us a great deal to bite on with this piece.  I will have to read and absorb it at another time, as we are a bit busy at the moment.

We have just watched Q&A with Julia.  She was excellent.  My 82 year old Mum who is visiting was totally disgusted with Tony Jones, she had never seen or heard of him before. Oh and she dislikes the way the MSM treat Julia, so much disrespect.

Last Saturday I had the bloke from Morgan Face to Face here.  It agreed to do it because I had heard a lot about it.  The only thing is with the 2nd preference, it only gave three choices, not even an independent. Only two questions on politics, and have to explain why you would vote for the number (party) you said.

Gravel

June 13. 2012 05:30 PM

LadyInRed

The major cause of the current political disaffection is dishonesty. It caused the downfall of Howard too. Abbott remains deeply unpopular, and people seem to be capable of forming an independent judgment about him, but not Gillard??

Tom of Melbourne. There are so many instances where Howard was dishonest and it didn't affect him at all. He was in for 3 terms! If you think he was only dishonest in the last one then once again this is a nonsense. It's complex (there is that word again). I think that the assets sliding in value is a big one. Many, many people bought bg houses with way more bedrooms and bathrooms that they could ever need (or want to clean) in the mistaken understanding they were going to make money. Now they are not happy paying off something that is actually worth less than they bought it for. Who to blame? Not Howard - though he and Costello have a lot to answer for. Let's blame the current government. If peoples assets suddelnly started skyrocketing again - they would not care one jot if Gillard was dishonest or if her jackets fitted, or if it meant Thomson sitting in parliament. That's part of the complexity. Then there is the media, who have an agenda with the inquiry into how much they should be allowed to own and then there is Abbott who is using every dirty political trick in the book and some that have yet to be written.

LadyInRed

June 13. 2012 05:43 PM

LadyInRed

Ad astra - I couldn't read the Paul Kelly article. And going from your post I am not sure who said what but I agree that people are upset paying off expensive assets, like a house and shares, that are actually worth less today than they were 5 years ago. But in reality things cannot just keep going up. Plenty of people were warning that the housing bubble was a trap. But the current government is not to blame for this, and the stock market, the housing market, like life go up and down, in waves. It all adds to that complexity thingo. You picked the right week to put this article up, its brought up some very interesting thoughts.

LadyInRed

June 13. 2012 05:53 PM

Ad astra

LadyinRed
Try copying www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg74x-1226393506153 into Google, then click on the item that pops up and you will get the full article.  I tried that and it worked.

I agree with what you say in you 5.43 pm comment.

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 05:55 PM

Ad astra

Gravel
Welcome back.  This piece is pretty heavy, but I hope when you re-read it it will make sense.  There are a lot of great comments for you to read.

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 06:11 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Twitterati for you.

If you have time listen to Paul Murray interview Kathy Jackson amazing, he says to Kathy she will probably be blamed for taking paper clips.

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
A very interesting read. RT @leigh_howard: Read Kathy Jackson's speech to the HR Nicholls Society here: http://bit.ly/KDlfN7

Kathy Jackson set to be sacked? Paul Murray, 2UE
www.2ue.com.au/.../20120613-209xr.html

Crikey.com.au‏@crikey_news
Kathy Jackson’s HR Nicholls society speech last night had ALP watchers rolling in the aisles, writes @andrewjcrook www.crikey.com.au/.../

Ask Geek‏@geeksrulz
@Jitterry Mr Murray as LNP mouthhpiece is obsessed with bashing Thomson over HSU. No concern for HSU members over KJ allegations @pm_live

Liv‏@mmechomski
Looks like Kathy Jackson's about to be sacked. Which Liberal seat or cushy job will she pick up after that? #auspolwww.smh.com.au/.../...-support-20120612-208bj.html

Bernard Keane‏@BernardKeane
Just wasted 2 minutes looking at Paul Kelly's op-ed today. He's certainly adept at nailing what everyone else was saying several weeks ago.

Mark ‏@markjs1
"Queenslanders: you asked for it, the LNP Utopia, & now you have to live with it."...More from Bushfire: http://bit.ly/KzSnr2 #auspol #BBill

Union secretary takes fight into heartland of the old foe, Tony Wright , National Times
''From the bottom of my heart,'' said society board member James W. Patterson, ''thank you for all the ammunition you have provided us with tonight.''
www.theage.com.au/.../...d-foe-20120612-208iq.html

Peter van Onselen‏@vanOnselenP
My piece today... "Coalition has cause for concern" | The Australian http://bit.ly/Lj6rpP

Simon Banks‏@SimonBanksHB
The slide pack for Glenn Stevens' speech to the PM's Economic Forum can be found here: http://tiny.cc/a7htfw

The Australian‏@australian
HSU a 'dysfunctional soap opera': BILL Shorten has branded the Health Services Union a "dysfunctional soap opera... http://bit.ly/NbG2Ph

Ken ‏@KoenjiEikaiwa
HSU Kathy Jackson is a failure & handles the truth carelessly according to HSU staff http://bit.ly/LB7bah

Justin Stevens‏@_JustinStevens_
If you missed it @TheRealPBarry has done a terrific profile on Rebekah Brooks which is now available online: http://bit.ly/LTA3eE

Leroy‏@Leroy_Lynch
How to sack 20,000 Queenslanders (or more) - the QLD govt's media strategy outlined www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120613-209a1.html via @brisbanetimes #qldpol #auspol

smh.com.au‏@smh
National News: AWB CFO admits to Iraq payments http://bit.ly/NcC2Ou #australia

Sally Jackson‏@Sally_Jackson
ABC set to apologise to opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison tonight on The Drum | The Australian http://bit.ly/KSBo7O

Tom Cummings‏@cyenne40
Now you're just being silly. RT @John_Hanna: Whats next, Tony Jones apologising to @JuliaGillard? #ApologyParty

Elizabeth Humphrys‏@liz_beths
Outrageous that @abcthedrum have removed Monday night's show from their website. An apology and censorship! #auspol #thedrum

Lyn

June 13. 2012 06:30 PM

Psyclaw


ToM

Please do not introduce a new topic until you have finished your obligations regarding your previous issue.

Some might be tempted to think you are ingenuous in not following through.

Last night at 9.02pm you wrote the following:

The electorate has proven that it is willing to embrace change, and complexity, when it is supported by ethical, transparent political leadership.

At 11.32pm I asked you for some details:

And who specifically are you saying provided this "ethical, transparent political leadership"?

Please man up and tell us who the leader was and what the "change" that leader brought about was.

Or is my last sentence in my 11.32pm post last night, quoted below, perfectly correct?

I guess it's a silly expectation that you might "put up" (i.e. some evidence as opposed to oblique smears against JG)

I won't be holding my breath for you to do the right thing.

Psyclaw

June 13. 2012 06:32 PM

2353

DMW @11:21 - well have I obsessed about the post in question and I can find nothing wrong with it.  I'm sure you would take correction if offered by someone that obviously has greater depth of experience in obscure sentence construction.

NormanK @ 14:55- a few of us imagined the "pillow talk" would be solely along the lines of who fed the cat and if the cars need washing on the weekend.  Because they both seem th have such a highly developed moral code neither of them would regale the other in anything that could be construed as office politics, cases currently in front of FWA, planned Union actions etc. Laughing

ToM @ 15:49 - Do you read your own stuff?  The problem here isn't anything to do with gender - the fact that a Union Official and Vice President of FWA see no moral or ethical problem in commencing a non-professional relationship with each other because there could be a perception of intended or unintended bias is a problem.  It wouldn't matter if the couple were different gender, same gender or alien - its the demonstration of ethics that is wrong.  It would be like the Development Managers of Apple and Microsoft starting a personal relationship.  Regardless of the "pillow talk" the perception would be that secrets would have been inadvertently transmitted and one or more likely both would be sacked

Your comment It’s been successively pointed out by eminent ALP figures, that “you have to be honest, and you can’t blame the media”. is on the money as it has been clearly demonstrated that Jackson and Lawler have not been honest to their respective employers.  NormanK is correct, there is a long way to go in this one.

2353

June 13. 2012 07:09 PM

Tom of Melbourne

’ …the fact that a Union Official and Vice President of FWA see no moral or ethical problem in commencing a non-professional relationship…

The only conflict of interest would occur if Lawler was presiding over a case involving an area of Jackson’s responsibility.


Here’s a real (potential) conflict of interest.

•  A lawyer (a partner with a major firm) represented her fee paying live in lover, a union official.
•  The lawyer prepared a range of documents for the lover/union/client, the union paid the lawyers fees.
•  The lawyer was instructed by her client/live in lover.
•  The union official defrauded the union by plundering the funds his lawyer/lover had set up.

Interesting comments earlier about “throwing the first stone” as well as judging a person by orientation and ethics of their partner.

Tom of Melbourne

June 13. 2012 07:16 PM

TalkTurkey

Andrew Bolt says
Morrison is a racist representing racists at Cronulla. Case closed. Brain, too.
And he can say he didn't say that but he did.

TalkTurkey

June 13. 2012 07:20 PM

Psyclaw

ToM

Still waiting.

Psyclaw

June 13. 2012 08:24 PM

Patriciawa

Psyclaw, agree with your comment over at PB blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1299596 and how she is always 'done to'and never to blame for any of the nasty stuff.

And you're right; she will championed by Reith and his mates as the heroic whistleblower, victim now of the vengeful unionists. She'll love that! It doesn't look as though she's going to give up her starring role in the HSU soap opera soon.

How long can she keep going like this?  Can no one shut her up?

Mind you every time she opens her mouth she does manage to put her foot in it.   Hence the all revealing comment we were discussing over there.    My phone has) been disconnected and I’ll have to deliver it back to the office by Friday, and my car, and all my other possessions I have that belong to the HSU,” she told Fairfax Radio.

.



Patriciawa

June 13. 2012 08:44 PM

Patriciawa

Sorry, Psyclaw, that link brings up my own comment not yours, #2074, which I had highlighted to link to here.

Can anyone help me with a few tips on linking to comments in threads?  Particularly here at TPS where comments are not numbered.

Patriciawa

June 13. 2012 08:49 PM

TalkTurkey

I'll say it again, because they both deserve this:

Direct quote from Andrew Bolt's blog:

Morrison is a racist representing racists at Cronulla. Case closed. Brain, too.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Now:
  ANNOUNCING!

The SLONG Award!
An Occasional Tribute
For Fearless True Comment
         by a
Currently Employed Journalist

First Recipient
Steven Long.

Heartfelt Thanks Comrade.

Be proud of this award to your dying day.

TalkTurkey

June 13. 2012 08:53 PM

TalkTurkey

Patricia, Yes I had seen the photo of the horrible gaggle of Abborttians before, but it sure goes with the pome.

As for the other photos of the Labor ministers aren't they cute, all smiling and nice . . .  

TalkTurkey

June 13. 2012 09:00 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thanks for the Twitterati - what a collection of interesting items.  I couldn't get to PvO's article despite using the Google trick.  But I have Kathy Jackson's speech to the HR Nicholls Society preserved for posterity!  I wonder what's to become of her next?

I'm calling it a day.

Ad astra

June 13. 2012 09:10 PM

Psyclaw


ToM

Perhaps (Ha Ha) you missed my 6.30pm post. So here it is again:

Please do not introduce a new topic until you have finished your obligations regarding your previous issue.

Some might be tempted to think you are ingenuous in not following through.

Last night at 9.02pm you wrote the following:

"The electorate has proven that it is willing to embrace change, and complexity, when it is supported by ethical, transparent political leadership."

At 11.32pm I asked you for some details:

And who specifically are you saying provided this "ethical, transparent political leadership"?

Please man up and tell us who the leader was and what the "change" that leader brought about was.

Or is my last sentence in my 11.32pm post last night, quoted below, perfectly correct?

I guess it's a silly expectation that you might "put up" (i.e. some evidence as opposed to oblique smears against JG)

I won't be holding my breath for you to do the right thing.


Still waiting ToM! Where are you? Cat got your tongue!!!!!

Psyclaw

June 13. 2012 09:15 PM

Tom of Melbourne

’ And who specifically are you saying provided this "ethical, transparent political leadership"?

Don’t you read? I’ve already pointed out that Hawke and Keating presided over the most fundamental and far-reaching reforms because they retained the trust of the electorate.

Unlike Gillard.
----------------------
It is however very interesting that the very people who have argued that Gillard cannot be judged by her relationship “form” with Bruce Wilson, are entirely willing to pass judgment on Jackson because of her personal relationship.

I believe there’s a word to describe those double standards.

Tom of Melbourne

June 13. 2012 09:16 PM

NormanK

PatriciaWA

Use the Permalink (right click - copy link) to bring stuff from PB to here. No such facility on BlogEngine.

Go Queensland!!

NormanK

June 13. 2012 09:28 PM

Russell in Glendale

Running a large dynamic nation's economy to maximise the benefits to all of society is difficult and complex. Making snide and simple remarks is much easier. Recently I made comment on a site in reply to some analysis on the Prime Minister's comment that resinding the carbon tax would be difficult. (Climate spectator) As usual the trolls were having their way with a simple 'just dial down the carbon tax rate to zero'. This could not happen of course, but to the sound bites of the opposition barrackers (thanks Jane)it is all too common.  

Russell in Glendale

June 13. 2012 10:17 PM

Psyclaw


ToM

Please see my 11.30pm last night.

Note I underlined "embrace" !

Still waiting. Which leader acted as you describe and got up an "embraced" reform!

Slippin n slidin again hey!

Psyclaw

June 13. 2012 11:21 PM

Psyclaw


ToM

"are entirely willing to pass judgment on Jackson because of her personal relationship."

More hyperbowl (Pyne-ian variety) here. Mistruth is thy best friend ToM. You are nothing if not a deceiver.

I note that you got your usual JG smear in ..... I won't dignify it with one ounce of consideration.

Jackson is being judged by the conduct she has exhibited over the past 6 months and by her own efforts to amplify it in the media. The examples of her conduct in Court and her relationship with her legal reps says it all.

Still waiting for the "embraced" legislation.

Psyclaw

June 14. 2012 02:45 AM

paul walter

After the Lady in Red I'd say, too, how remarkably Jones, and ABC's credibility has nose-dived. Spending cuts, quiet removal of broad sheet editors and journos, right wingers kept or recruited and directed to operate with in narrow frames of reference...
No doubt the ABC is in this mess due to successive governments and as Sir Humphrey would say the sacrosanct, inscrutable inviolability of,
"Policy".
It certainly would have been hived off to Murdoch by now, but for the unfortunate events in Britain involving young James, Rebekah Brooks and co, again raising the issue of fitness of ownership.
Of all of them, Jones has had the hardest fall. A once highly regarded man is now increasingly dismissed with contempt, along with Uhlmann.

paul walter

June 14. 2012 07:40 AM

Lyn

TODAY’S LINKS

Then and now: looking back at the economy, Greg Jericho, The Drum
The next 40 years will in all likelihood make the past 40 look smooth and easy. In the short-mid term, the northern hemisphere remains bound in shallows and miseries, but in the long term the challenges are bigger - our population is ageing, which means proportion of the population in the workforce (and those paying income tax) will decline rather than increase; internationally
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4067976.html

What has happened to our ABC?, Denis Allen, Independent Australia
Tony Jones spent much of the time hounding and sarcastically disputing the PM about a leadership challenge that was resolved six months ago, and that is only being revived by some bored journo when it looks like the Government may be getting some traction against the negativity of Tony Abbott. By doing so, he – and other journalists who do the same – deny the PM and/or MP the airtime to sell their story.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

FATAL ATTRACTION: HR Nicholls Society risks its brand for a night of cheap thrills with Kathy Jackson, Vex News
The vision of her making the effort to charmingly laugh at former Liberal Workplace Relations Minister and Maritime union-buster Peter Reith’s undoubtedly hilarious after-dinner whispered banter was surely enough to put delegates off their petits-fours. Perhaps he was reminiscing about how Tony Abbott encouraged him to run for the f
www.vexnews.com/.../

Kathy Jackson gets the slush fund off her chest, Andrew Crook, Crikey
Kathy Jackson’s speech last night to the HR Nicholls society had ALP watchers rolling in the aisles when she mentioned that resigned HSUEast general secretary Michael Williamson had boasted of a $2 million war chest available to him to fight union elections.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Jackson calls on unions to adopt company rules, Alison Caldwell , Au Finance Yahoo. Com
Founded by former treasurer Peter Costello and others in 1986, the HR Nicholls Society is one of Australia's most conservative industrial relations groups.
It supports the deregulation of Australia's industrial relations system and wants the award system abolished and the minimum wage lowered.
au.finance.yahoo.com/.../...company-225059690.html

Know Your Enemy; Who Is Christian Porter, Archie, Archie Archives
politically savvy Christian walking into the State Premier’s job upon his election, I would not be surprised to see him move up the Federal ranks at record speed. Given the mud the incompetent bully Abbott has slung over his complete Front Bench, Porter can expect to be the Liberal leader within the next term of the Parliament. Regardless of the outcome of the election.
archiearchive.wordpress.com/.../

Review of QandA with Julia Gillard (11/06/12) ABC Gone to Hell
The program saw a reasonably active Jones keeping the discussion going, however, some of his follow up questions were ill informed and often puzzling in their relevance. A few of the remarks made during the program were also unprofessional and even bordering on inappropriate when he implied Gillard was a liar.
www.abcgonetohell.net/.../review-of-qanda-with-julia-gillard-11-06-12

Your Politics Stink, Mick Seccombe, Global Mail
People on the left and right of politics see the world differently, literally. They also hear and smell it differently. It’s not opinion, it’s science. And, as several studies show, it’s why the left has dibs on most of the good jokes
www.theglobalmail.org/.../

When did we lose objectivity-, Monthly Quadrant Review
Peter Reith is at it again over at The Drum. Apparently WorkChoices, if kept, could cure cancer and bring unicorns and fairies to every Australian, and the FWA legislation (despite being based on, and mainly retains Workchoices regulations) is the Black Plague reborn. Which of cause is also the opinion of Paul Sheehan over at the SMH.
http://www.monthlyquadrantreview.com/?p=1373

#asktony – in which Mr Abbott tries to make up for avoiding Lateline or Q&A by pretending to be available to answer questions on Twitter for twenty minutes, and it backfires
Jeremy Sear ,Pure Poison
Naturally, other journalists were outraged. Tony Abbott, a man who expects to be Prime Minister after the next election, thinks he can avoid genuine scrutiny with faux interviews on Twitter? He thinks pretending to engage with the electorate for twenty minutes online whilst ignoring anything he doesn’t want to deal with is the equivalent of a Lateline interview or being grilled by a Q&A audience?
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../asktony-in-which-mr-abbott-tries-to-make-up-for-avoiding-lateline-or-qa-by-pretending-to-be-available-to-answer-questions-

ABC’s Mark Scott defends against "groupthink" attacks by The Oz , Helen Westerman, The Conversation
with a clear editorial line emerging about the stories they will be pursuing, the people they are supporting, the agendas they are setting, the philosophy they are advancing. The paper executes accordingly, making Mitchell, without doubt and for a long period of time, the most personally dominant editorial executive working in the country.
theconversation.edu.au/abcs-mark-scott-defends-against-groupthink-attacks-by-the-oz-7637

The First Cut Is The Deepest, Wixxy, Wixxy Leaks
It is also important to remember that both O’Farrell, and Baillieu are considered moderates in the Liberal Party. Think of this when someone you know is made redundant, or when your next power bill gives you a coronary, and makes you join those waiting in casualty department at your local hospital that has been left short-staffed  Tony Abbott is not considered a moderate…
wixxy.wordpress.com/.../

Dog and Pony Politics, Wayne Brooks. Curiosity and Challenge
There are bodies to address all the sensational allegations, heresay and innuendo flying through the airwaves so why does the likes of Mr Abbott and other like minded individuals see it as their place to get on television and play Sherriff of Nottingham to our Parliament and the people of this country.
wrb330.wordpress.com/.../

Voters Want Real Labor Values, Ben Eltham, New Matilda
Tony Abbott is dishonest about Labor's big-picture issues and the PM can't sell her own success. Even so, there's still enough 'reality' out there for Labor to win,Abbott promised big, but delivered small; a speech closer to a road sign than a landmark. Only two relatively small policy areas were dealt with in any detail, and the bigger picture remains hopelessly confused
newmatilda.com/.../promise-big-deliver-small

O'Farrell Government confirms Carbon Price Modelling correct according to the Member for Page, Clarence Girl, North Coast Voices
Page MP Janelle Saffin has shown Opposition Leader Tony Abbott to be at odds with his State colleagues in NSW about the impact of the carbon price on the cost of living“I asked the Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency and Minister for Industry and
northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/.../...arbon.html

Belief versus human rights, Jennifer Wilson, No Place for Sheep
After my blog yesterday on Prime Minister Gillard’s belief that homosexuals should not be allowed to marry, I became embroiled in several robust Twitter fights. One of the points of contention was that the PM, like anyone else, is entitled to her personal beliefs. I was threatened with Voltaire, told belief does not require any knowledge, described as intolerant and blind
http://noplaceforsheep.com/

The Australian Moment, ReviewSien
by George Megalogenis is a book that recaps the fate of Australia from the early 1970s until 2012. In 360 pages itMegalogenis explains why he believes Australia is now doing so well. It’s a shorter book that Paul Kelly’s epic books and is well worth reading. Megalogenis attempts to provide an economic and political analysis of why Australia now looks to be performing so well.
reviewsien.wordpress.com/.../

Help tell Australia the truth about Tony Abbott, Act Red
Tony Abbott believes that he can win the next election by default. His plan is like last time: to hide his true intentions and plans from the Australian people until after election day
http://actrednow.causevox.com/

4G “far superior” to the NBN, claims Joe Hockey, Renai LeMay, Delimeter
delimiter.com.au/.../
Joe Hockey‏
My response to @delimiterau's inaccurate and misleading claims about my comments on Labor's NBN  

twitdoc.com/.../...nse-to-article-on-delimiter.pdf

Posts from the ‘Daily Fix’ Category
australianpoliticstv.org/category/daily-fix/

TODAY’S FRONT PAGES
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 14 June 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Lyn

June 14. 2012 08:19 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

June 14. 2012 09:05 AM

Psyclaw


Paul Walter

Totally agree!

I caught some interesting facial expressions by Jones during his attempts to "gotcha" the PM last QandA.

He appeared to me to be out of control ..... a bit of mania and a bit of panic as though his inner voice was saying to him "I recognise I shouldn't be behaving like this" while at the same time he was totally captured by his impulsive /compulsive urges to continue his unprofessional conduct.

I think that just below the surface of his conscious self he was experiencing inner conflict about these opposing forces and his involuntary facial expressions couldn't hide it.

Psyclaw

June 14. 2012 09:29 AM

TalkTurkey

Posted on Poll Bludger, BB I hope I got your emphasis OK, it doesn't transfer automatically.

I include it in full because, when the ABC is prepared to countenance Tony Wormtongue Jones' and Christopher Smarmy Uhlmann's boorish browbeating behaviour to the Prime Minister, to dismiss PJK's condemnation, yet to grovel to Morriscum like this, is proof positive of the ABC's political agenda, and a clarion call to the Fifth Estate and to the Government. Yes the Media will squeal but that is the war, it's not like Oh it would be good but . . . , it must be addressed NOW! Finkelstein makes the recommendations, the situation is intolerable, BB has ideas, so do we, so the question is not whether it's a must, it's not when it's now,
the question is How do we fight this War?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 8:44 am | Permalink

An interesting column from the SMH on “What will replace newspapers?”


A web of 'citizen journalists' cannot replace newspapers.
The battle goes like this: independent writers charge that Canberra's press gallery has squandered their readers' goodwill with a mindless focus on trivia. With some, you detect a gleeful anticipation of the collapse of mainstream newspapers. The other side derides the bloggers' smug detachment from journalistic and political realities, arguing they know nothing of "shoe-leather endeavour".
The truth is, both have points. Many independent writers and bloggers provide commentary rather than reporting, depending on mainstream journalists' facts for their analysis. Much of it is very good, but I doubt that the less glamorous aspects of our civic life will be covered by a well-intentioned brigade of bloggers.

www.smh.com.au/.../...w-on-ink-20120613-20af8.html

I have a couple of ideas.

1. A cross-company internet bureau, run co-operatively, consisting of the major players now, but also including publications like IA and other internet “newspapers” that charges a nominal fee (5 cents?) for every article read. To access any newspaper you have to pay, but only a very small amount.

Any extra money made from advertising would be each individual organization’s side benefit to keep.

Everyone would have to be in it, though, so perhaps it wouldneed to be administered by an independent government body?

2. Let the papers die, and re-fund the ABC, with a top to bottom re-structure that weeds out the spruikers and lurk merchants (youse know who they are). This would ensure basic data gathering, and then commentators could feed off that (as well as what they feed off now). But this might not be economically sustainable.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So Folks - You saw the grovelling apology - What are we to do?


TalkTurkey

June 14. 2012 09:48 AM

DMW

Good Morning Swordsters
2353,
another angle on people letting their local member know about problems that need fixing.

Black spots get $1 million quick fix  Ella Fisher @CanberraTimes
Ian Davenport was tired of seeing car accidents occur around the corner from his Melba home.
So he wrote an email to his local MP and identified it as a dangerous intersection under the national black spot program.
...
The site was also identified by another Canberra driver and is one of eight areas set to benefit from $1 million in federal funding.

www.canberratimes.com.au/.../...0120613-209im.html

It might not always work but we have a much better chance of getting results when we 'whisper' in an appropriate ear.

DMW

June 14. 2012 10:17 AM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thanks for another great set on links.   As I'll be out and about most of the day, I’ll read them when I return this evening.

Russell in Glendale
You are right running a vast economy is complex – there are some who would try to make it look simple, when it never can be.

paul walter, TT
Tony Jones is showing his conservative, anti-Labor colours with each appearance.  His limp interview with Greg Hunt on Lateline last night was in stark contrast to his belligerence towards Julia Gillard on Q&A.

Ad astra

June 14. 2012 12:05 PM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad and Everybody

Oh! is it still morning no I just missed it.

Twitterverse:-

PB‏@youngapprentice
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226394863943 another nail in the coffin of @TonyAbbottMHR paranoia and lies about carbon pricing

National Times‏@NationalTimesAU
It's fine to scrutinise Coalition members, says Gillard when asked about governement 'dirt unit' claims www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120614-20bfs.html

The Daily Telegraph‏@dailytelegraph
Opposition MPs buying coal mine shares - PM http://bit.ly/LEYSdG

Possum Comitatus‏@Pollytics
Abbott: "I'm running a fact campaign here" - Whyalla really will be wiped off the map - with a big shamwow!

Marcus Priest‏@MeddlesomPriest
A very incisive piece on the state of journalism - Democracy running low on ink http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/-20af8.html

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Alex Kirk's story on the departure of PM Gillard's senior adviser Nick Reece under murky circumstances: http://latika.me/ODmlwy

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
PM won’t accept ‘characterisation’ of report her staffer Nick Reece, who quit overnight, was running a dirt unit from within her office.

The Australian‏@australian
PM defends scrutiny amid dirt unit claim: JULIA Gillard has defended taxpayer-funded information-gathering on La... http://bit.ly/MOGfp1

1mTheFinnigans天地有道人无道‏@Thefinnigans
Shock horror "dirt unit" in PM Office. "digging up LOTO KRudd's medical records, that he had a heart procedure 14y ago www.smh.com.au/.../1190486116109.html

Ken Dally‏@Cowcakes
RT @corinne_grant Great piece on the mildly functioning brain stem that calls itself Campbell Newman by @JohnBirmingham www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120613-209q2.html

UniMelb Newsroom‏@uommedia
ABC boss @ABCMarkScott used a @UniMelb event to lambast The @Australian last night. Transcript: http://bit.ly/Lkd9vK

Meta Starostin‏@Snow_Crash
'So Where the Bloody Hell Are You?' Scott Morrison because you are hiding from me...aren't you COWARD!! http://bit.ly/KBbEIw #AusPol

Chris Barrett‏@selga55
Also at home we have #Noalition talking down our economy #auspol Sense of gloom worst since 1990 www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120613-20ajv.html via @brisbanetimes

Lyn

June 14. 2012 12:23 PM

Paul

Folks,

I haven't heard much reporting and comment on "Per Capita's" report on Mining Boom Mk1.

They come to the conclusion that Howard & Costello had $180billion in windfall revenue. And that they wasted $75billion of it.

Seems like they weren't the financial maestro's that we are led to believe they were.

www.percapita.org.au/01_cms/details.asp?ID=503

Regards,

Paul

Paul

June 14. 2012 01:39 PM

TalkTurkey




Thank you Schnappi on Poll Bludger

Schnappi

Posted Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

Dirty Tony

No Apology Turn Left‏@turnleft2013

here is Tony Abbott bragging about his dirt unit that brought down Pauline Hanson www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2003/s933489.htm

TalkTurkey

June 14. 2012 02:02 PM

TalkTurkey


Schnappi On Poll Bludger found this!

It is our ability to dind and disseminate such as this that makes the 5th Estate powerful. Thnks Schanppi

Schnappi

Posted Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

Dirty Tony

No Apology Turn Left‏@turnleft2013

here is Tony Abbott bragging about his dirt unit that brought down Pauline Hanson www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2003/s933489.htm

TalkTurkey

June 14. 2012 03:17 PM

the moor

Tony Abbott and his cohorts certainly can't handle complexity as was aptly demonstrated by their inability to deliver a credible Budget Reply response.  That failure escaped media scrutiny because of Michael Kroger's strategic distraction tactic but they are not going to be able to hide behind smokescreens forever.  Eventually the Liberal Party are going to have to develop and present coherent policies to the Australian electorate.  The fact that they don't already have them in place is a little worrying.

the moor

June 14. 2012 03:41 PM

TalkTurkey

Any new Swordsfolks as yet unwelcomed, Welcome.
Just in case anybody's been missed.

Paul Walter, and Psyclaw who so graphically and accurately portrays Wormtongue* Jones' nettled demeanour on Q&A, I couldn't agree more, how did it ever come to this? A bas Jones! A bas Uhlmann! The ABC must be purged!  

*Please repeat at every possible juncture, Meme of the Month, Wormtongue Jones remember OK?!

Oh and remember too to nominate SLONG Award entries as mentioned this morning:

   The SLONG Award!
An Occasional Tribute
For Fearless True Comment
         by a
Currently Employed Journalist

First Recipient
Steven Long.

TalkTurkey

June 14. 2012 04:42 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Twitterati this afternoon:-

James Massola‏@jamesmassola
MT @FinancialReview: Howard govt had its own version of a 'dirt unit", ex-advisor @barnsgreg says [free] http://bit.ly/MCe7l2

news.com.au‏@news_com_au
THE mining industry has been accused by MPs of not taking responsibility for the social and financial problems c... http://tinyurl.com/cuxlssn

Union leaders ensure their slice of the pie
The Australian Financial Review
Former HSU national secretary Kathy Jackson has called for the level of union scrutiny to be increased. Speaking at a meeting of the H. R. Nicholls Society this ...afr.com/.../union_leaders_ensure_their_slice_BHajiLXFx3aKXG7lqqYPvO

Zac Spitzer‏@zackster
Dirt unit to fight Labor's net plan www.theage.com.au/.../1183833843040.html #NBN #auspol

Hermes Trismegistus‏@conarelli
BINGO: what it's all about>>“@theage: Melbourne's 6 new suburbs to make Liberal donor an instant millionaire www.theage.com.au/.../...oning-20120613-20am6.html #vicpol

John Pratt‏@Jackthelad1947
Gina Rinehart tipped to raise Fairfax stake, as 42 million shares change hands www.smh.com.au/.../...ax-stake-20120614-20c2o.html Lord Monckton will be pleased #auspol

No Apology Turn Left‏@turnleft2013
here is Tony Abbott bragging about his dirt unit that brought down Pauline Hanson http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2003/s933489.

Financial Review‏@FinancialReview
Australian stocks close lower as nervous investors look to Greek elections #ausbiz #ASX [free] www.afr.com/.../australian_stocks_close_lower_hhNFp5n691l7mJeeNIIfBM

Aust. Protectionists‏@AustProtParty
Great interview! Alan Jones speaks with Professor Dick Lamm about how multiculturalism is destroying nations #auspol http://fb.me/1IBOlm55i

Lyn

June 14. 2012 05:04 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
I’m back at my computer and have just read your Twitterverse and Twitterati.  

I was taken with Mark Scott’s address at the book launch of Australian Journalism Today, where he took a well-aimed pot-shot at The Oz, which had accused the ABC of ‘groupthink’!  He hit back.  This paragraph reflected what we and others have been saying for ages: “At The Australian, they seem to think I should operate in the same way as their own Editor-in-Chief. I have no doubt that at The Australian, the senior editorial team run a tight news conference, with a clear editorial line emerging about the stories they will be pursuing, the people they are supporting, the agendas they are setting, the philosophy they are advancing. The paper executes accordingly, making Mitchell, without doubt and for a long period of time, the most personally dominant editorial executive working in the country.

www.abc.net.au/.../...tralian_Journalism_Today.pdf

The Stern article Our carbon tax leads by example was also a good read:
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226394863943

Ad astra

June 14. 2012 05:10 PM

Ad astra

Paul
Thank for the Per Capita link, an interesting read.  The conclusion is germane: “Voters had come to see the fruits of the boom years as entitlements, making it difficult for government to wind them back. The Gillard Government has begun this task – by tightening means-tests for family benefits, introducing them for private health insurance rebates, and winding back superannuation tax concessions. But the process will take years and involve much political pain.

Australia had a great boom – it’s a shame we don’t have more to show for it.


No the Howard Government stewardship has now been shown for what it was, and was not.

Ad astra

June 14. 2012 05:13 PM

Ad astra

the moor
Welcome to The Political Sword family. Do come again.

You are right – the Budget Reply demonstrated that not only was Tony Abbott not prepared to deal with the complexity of federal budgeting, but instead used the occasion for more negativity and demeaning of the PM and her Government.

Ad astra

June 14. 2012 05:40 PM

2353

While there os life, there is hope -> www.independentaustralia.net/.../.

AA - like you I found the Per Capita article interesting.  The conclusion is damning.  Thanks Paul.

2353

June 14. 2012 09:13 PM

DMW

Mister John Clarke ‏@mrjohnclarke
Tonight's Clarke & Dawe: Fine footwork from Bryan here. http://ow.ly/bznZc #abc730
Retweeted by Dan Gerritsen

ummm No Comment required

DMW

June 14. 2012 09:32 PM

DMW

and this from twitter
twitter.com/.../1

I'll drink to that

DMW

June 14. 2012 09:56 PM

DoodlePoodle

I found TPS about three weeks ago and have become quite addicted.  Just want to say that I have really enjoyed your last three articles Ad astra.  As a news junkie, particularly Political, I also want to thank Lyn for all of her links.

As a labor voter, I had become quite depressed with the apathy of fellow Australians who are so gullible that they just accept whatever the Opposition and Media dish up to them.  It is great to know that there are other likeminded people who accept/appreciate JULIA for who she is and what she represents.  Australians should be proud to have such a down to earth, intelligent and capable PM.    

DoodlePoodle

June 14. 2012 10:30 PM

DMW

Hey Doodle Poodle,
on behalf of all Swordsters welcome to our little hangout.

Please comment freely and a touch of 'Reckless Abandon' another point of view is most often welcome.

DMW

June 14. 2012 10:44 PM

Psyclaw

David Cameron just told the Leveson inquiry that in his view the politicians and the media have been too close over the last 20 years.

He then went on to say that he had Rupert's phone number and vice versa, and that from time to time Rupert phones him to bang on about some aspect of the economic scene. But he sees nothing improper in that.

Spoken like a true conservo. Straight faced and all! Abbott's UK ancestry is evident in this.

Psyclaw

June 14. 2012 10:48 PM

Ad astra

DoodlePoodle
Welcome to The Political Sword family.  Do come again.

Thank you for your encouraging remarks.  I'm pleased that you have found a place where there is strong support for our PM and her Government, with which you can identify.  We are a small voice that tries to counter the ceaseless negativity of the MSM, especially the Murdoch media, with expressions of support and indeed pride in Julia Gillard and what she doing.

Ad astra

June 14. 2012 10:54 PM

TalkTurkey

Steve Cannane Frau Kelly and Pru Goward all fighting for the Abbortians for all they are worth on The Drum. Simon (??????) giving them all the bird to their combined consterantion, he is right across the issues and they are confounded by his authoritative pronouncements.

Kelly is horrible these days, there's always a but, Pru Goward always was. Cannane got more than he bargained for with Simon (??????) tonight and his face looked more and more bent out of shape - like Wormtongue Jones' on Q&A.

Please repeat Wormtongue Jones' name at every possible juncture.

Doodle Poodle Welcome, and yes we like *J*U*L*I*A* a lot here and we are defiantly but logically upbeat about the next election. You are amongst comrades.    

TalkTurkey

June 14. 2012 11:02 PM

Patriciawa

Are you still awake, TT?   I need to know quick fast if the last line works! Any other comments welcome too, but the last line????

Out Of The West!

Young Christian Porter has come out in the west,
To say that in Canberra his chances are best.
His decision could bring his Premier undone
‘Cos up until now he’s been Liberal top gun.
In the East the search for a champion so far
Has yielded no one to compare with this star.  

He stands tall and strong with a beautiful wife,
All things a plus for the political life.
He is fighting fit for the battles to come
Armies are gathering to the beat of his drum.
He has rivals in Perth and in Sydney, what’s more,
Who’d like to unseat him as he rides off to war.

There’s jovial Joe Hockey and sad Andrew Robb,
Mad monk Tony too;  they all fear for their job.
But Tony has told him there’s plenty of room
In his team ‘team Abbott’ with his prophets of doom.’
He’s promised to welcome him,  and what is more.
He’s written that promise in his very own gore.

So alike, these two blokes.  Who’d tell them apart?
This Christian, like Tony,  is no bleeding heart .
Hard on boat people who dare cross our border,
He’s always  calling for more law and order.
He  wants to help  ‘good’ folk to feel more secure,
But makes no allowance for the young and thepoor.

But poor Tony Abbott is losing his grip
So Porter is favorite for Fed leadership.
That makes pre-selection more likely for Pierce
And his next election campaign won’t be fierce.
If Barnett makes offer of doors left ajar
He can then smile politely and say “Au revoir!”

He’ll meet a fair dame in his quest for glory.
There’s heroine and hero in every story,
Though he has a wife and no need to marry!
But in his new life there’ll be thrust and parry
Where he’ll meet his match, our latter day Lochinvar.
Ask any pundit,  “Who’s that?” and they’ll say, “Julia!”

Patriciawa

June 14. 2012 11:17 PM

Patriciawa

Please forgive my self absorption.   I haven't read any late afternoon or evening comments, except your very latest, TT.
Yes, one senses the desperation on all those ABC people.  The national news was ghastly with its distortion about the so called dirt files.  Tony Abbott breathtakingtly hypocritical.  And I think Simon Crean should insist on an apology for the inference they made that he was distancing himself from JG.  The bastards!

I cheered myself up getting stuck into this pome.   I'm looking for my pictures now.   It's astonishing how alike these two men are in education, class and attitudes.  Even in looks, I think.   Porter's not a boxer though.  But really just like Tony A, not leadership material at all.  He just looks good because the rest of the Libs here and over there are awful - he's their only talent aside from Troy Buswell.

Patriciawa

June 15. 2012 12:16 AM

Patriciawa

Don't worry, TT,  I can see a better rhyme, and all my typos too!  

I'm glad I promised I'd give you first look at new stuff. I get to try it out on you here!   I promise to get back to you soon with a cleaned up version, notes and illustration.

Patriciawa

June 15. 2012 12:18 AM

NormanK

What a curious interview Leigh Sales did with Steven Smith tonight. Now that I've calmed down a bit I can give her some benefit of the doubt. It would seem that none of her colleagues have pointed out to her that Smith has stuck his neck out a long way with this whole ADF sexual assault and bullying issue. She behaved as though she was unaware that it was Smith who instigated all of the enquires that are underway. I cut her a bit of slack because if she wasn't aware of Smith's role in all of this then she was quite right to go after him in search of a comprehensive answer as to why the report was redacted. If you take away the fact that Smith is the driving force that has caused all of this information to come to light in the first place, then it does look as though he is sitting on his hands and covering for the ADF. There endeth my generousity.

There is a curious phenomenon that is manifesting itself in our media (God I hate using that word - oh for more synonyms) and in the general population where it would seem that television programmes and newspapers are being seen as taking over the role of policing. It is an extension of the ACA & Today Tonight foot-in-the-door investigation that shows the audience what a dodgy plumber is up to and leaves it to the audience to condemn him. In a sense "here's the proof, why is no-one doing something about this criminal?"

Kathy Jackson when speaking to Chris Uhlmann recently said (words to the effect of) "of course Thomson is guilty. You think he's guilty Chris. The media thinks he's guilty" and left unsaid but implied "case closed". Tony Jones when he was harassing Julia Gillard on Q&A over the alleged people smuggler that 4 Corners had 'uncovered' called him a people smuggler (no alleged) and asked "why didn't they arrest him?" Apparently we no longer need a police force and we certainly don't require evidence that will stand up in a court of law before we act these days. All we need is some superficial evidence presented in a compelling way and we can all muster up some outrage and demand to know why nothing is being done about it.

In a similar vein, Sales wanted Smith to act against any members of the Defence Force who had been accused of bullying (read - and rape and sexual harassment and .....) and were still in the Force today. It is fine to be outraged that someone who is guilty of this type of conduct is still around to perpetrate it against more unwitting victims but it is yet another example of where due process, presumption of innocence and benefit of the doubt are being discarded because someone wants "action now!" No thought seems to be given to the rights of the accused who might very well be innocent. No thought given to the possibility that by acting in haste the case against the miscreant might be compromised to such a degree that no charges can be brought. No thought given to the compensation case that might ensue if a victim's claims are proven and there is some evidence of neglect on the part of Defence Force officers who engaged in a cover up.

Is this just an extension of the attitude taken by tabloid current affairs programmes or have some of our journalists actually come to believe that they are not only the arbiters of what is morally acceptable but now have the power to decide what constitutes illegal behaviour regardless of whether they have sufficient proof to warrant a prosecution? I know that the general public already believe that they can form concrete opinions about someone's guilt based solely on a media report but have the reporters themselves come to believe that this is also the case? It seems to have gone a stage beyond 'trial by media' which most people would recognise. Now it seems to have been legitimised.

There's something going on here and I can't quite put my finger on it.

NormanK

June 15. 2012 12:42 AM

Patriciawa

Not only that trial by media is acceptable, NormanK, but that confected charges can be taken at face value.

National news this evening claimed that Julia Gillard was keeping dirt files on the Opposition.  Then somehow they had Simon Crean, not surprisingly,  condemning dirt files of any kind.  This gave them their headline story about him, a Senior Minister,  distancing himself from the PM on her keeping of dirt files!

Journos these days live in topsy turvy land where anything goes.  If you don't have a story to file, just make one up.

Patriciawa

June 15. 2012 12:54 AM

NormanK

Actually, I might have just pinned down the source of my disquiet.
'Trial by media', as I would define it, is where the media house couches its conclusions in language that implies that all that they are doing is reflecting the public's attitude. Another expression would be 'tried in the court of public opinion'.
After Thomson's speech to the House, the Daily Telegraph ran a headline "We don't believe you". The 'we' in that headline is meant to be understood to be the general public not the author or the masthead. Forget about the fact that there had been no time to judge public opinion on the subject or the thought that the headline was probably already typeset (I know, I know) before Thomson had finished his speech - most people would not analyse to that degree. If, as a reader of the DT, you were no fan of Thomson then your reaction would be "too bloody right, mate".

The dodgy plumber story would always involve a victim with whom we are meant to sympathise/empathise and the reporter is just the conduit for that emotion.

This is the difference that is disturbing me. No longer are reporters pretending to be the conduit of public opinion along the lines of 'people are saying' or 'here's the evidence, look at this poor victim'. Instead they are taking it upon themselves to personally weigh up the evidence and assign blame and guilt - something that they feel entitled to do because after years of trial by media they believe that they know what the people are feeling.

Basically, Sales might feel that she is empowered to feel indignant on my behalf or on behalf of the victims but I just don't recall giving her that power.

NormanK

June 15. 2012 05:05 AM

Patriciawa

Good morning TT, Lyn, NormanK, AA  - everyone. At last the bloody thing's done!  I'm now off to bed with Walter Scott's rhythms beating still in my head. I've had an enjoyable night lit by midnight oil.  I hope you enjoy the results of my toil. Smile  

polliepomes.wordpress.com/.../


Patriciawa

June 15. 2012 07:27 AM

Lyn

TODAY’S LINKS

Deep Throaties , Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate
What's more, this is a story that keeps on giving - an editorial lecture about those who would take advantage of good old Aussie charity, a three-hour rant-and-spittle-redistribution from Alan Jones between multiple spins of Macarthur Park and Ponds hand lotion; and a strategic doorstop from Scott Morrison
thefailedestate.blogspot.com.au/.../...oaties.html

The Australian Blogosphere, Tim Dunlop, The Kings Tribune
energy focused on Twitter, which has captured the imagination of the Australian political class. Senior Australian journalists, commentators and political figures (Annabel Crabb, Mark Colvin, Malcolm Turnbull and Kevin Rudd come to mind) are now enjoying the network effects of Twitter, getting a new distribution channel for their ideas, instant feedback and tips for new reading.
www.kingstribune.com/.../1509-the-australian-blogosphere

ABC’s ‘dirt unit’ is just another dog bites man story, ABC Has Gone to Hell
Alexandra Kirk, the author of the two ABC articles, had done some ‘dirt’ digging of her own she’d see this is all old hat. She could then have avoided this embarrassing dog bites man story and, instead spent her taxpayer funded day producing something of value for ABC readers. Although, a quick glance of her shows that Kirk’s penchant for the lightweight gossip stuff leaves little chance of
www.abcgonetohell.net/.../abcs-dirt-unit-is-just-another-dog-bites-man-story

An Abbott proof sense, Barry Everingham, Independent Australia
The boxing bible-bashing Oxford Blue is spending much of his time looking over his shoulder — and he’s seeing a tad more than the glow of burning bridges, although they are simmering away.First of all, the country cousins – the quondam Country Party – are flexing their flaccid muscles in readiness for an election win — they want Trade www.independentaustralia.net/.../

Joe Hockey and the Broadband Network of Doom, Sortiius is a Geek
The only thing the Liberal party can do at this stage is let Abbott self destruct, then radically change their attitude toward the NBN. The rhetoric on destroying the NBN didn’t work from day one, now it’s just getting embarrassing for the Liberal party.
http://sortius.is-a-geek.com/?p=40

Little surprise we're an 'angry nation', Tim Dunlop, The Drum
One thing missing from these analyses is a consideration of power. The complaints of mining magnates and other wealthy rent-seekers are run together with the complaints of ordinary citizens, and both sets of grievances are diagnosed as a nationwide bout of anger and wailing
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4070316.html

An apology, then a debate: what’s ‘opinion’ on your ABC?, Matthew Knott, The Power Index
Michael Gawenda, a former editor of The Age, told The Power Index: "The distinction between opinion and analysis has never been spelt out and I don't think it can be. In my view, all analysis is a form of opinion. If the ABC still thinks there is a line between opinion and analysis they should spell out where it is."
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../an-apology-then-a-debate-whats-opinion-on-your-abc

What Australians Believe, Possum Comitatus, Pollytics
What do Australians believe about the economy? What do we believe the role is for government in our society and its economy today? Do our beliefs match our actions – or better still, are our beliefs and expectations of government even consistent from one topic to the next,
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../

Scott Morrison And The Streisand Effect, Dan Gulbery, The Daily Derp
Morrison then demanded an apology from the ABC for the comment. Sadly, their ABC did indeed apologise for the comment. Not only did they cowardly apologise to glass jawed Morrison, they removed the entire show from their website.
thedailyderp.net/.../

Tell Big Business They're Dreaming, Ben Eltham, New Matilda
Lowering taxes by broadening the tax base? Not for Australia’s business leaders. They want lower taxes and lower government spending. Oh, but they also want all the good things that government provides, like more infrastructure, a stable rule of law, a sound currency, government-funded science and research, and government-subsidised public health care for their workers.
newmatilda.com/.../tell-big-business-they039re-dreaming

Sometimes even politicians have enough of “Tony Abbott says” media distractions, Turn Left 2013
The Liberals have a “dirt unit” too, only it doesn’t run out of their offices, and they don’t call it a “dirt unit”, no, it’s called News Limited. The advantage with having a media empire that controls 70% of media in this country, is they can not only dig up the dirt, but spin it and disseminate it too. All the while, the LNP gets to keep their distance, has plausible deniability and keep their hands clean.
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

Keane: journos v bloggers just doesn’t matter any more, Bernard Keane, Crikey
Most of the article is aimed at the contention that bloggers and “citizen journalists” can’t replace high-quality journalism provided by the mainstream media. No kidding — of course bloggers can’t replicate the efforts of full-time investigative reporters — they usually have day jobs of their own.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

An apology, then a debate: what’s ‘opinion’ on your ABC? Matthew Knott, Crikey
Holmes says he doesn’t believe ABC Radio National host Fran Kelly, for example, should be appearing on programs such as Insiders.Kelly attracted some attention last year for saying on Insiders that she supports efforts to put a price on carbon.
www.crikey.com.au/.../#.T9lnCAOHdRU.

NBN stats: Australia's broadband future and why the Coalition's alternative 'won't work', Nick Ross, Michael Wyres
The global study carries with it political ramifications in Australia where the opposition Coalition parties maintain that the optic fibre-based infrastructure currently being implemented by NBN Co is not needed to fulfil the promised benefits of the NBN and that suggesting so is "one big lie."
michaelwyres.com/.../article.php

Australia "should not be scared" of NBN,  Broadband to account for AUD$1trillion of activity by 2050, Simon Sharwood, The Register
Speaking at the launch of a study commissioned by IBM, A Snaphsot of Australia's Digital Future to 2050, Ruthven predicted the nation's gross domestic product will surge thanks to ubiquitous connectivity. He even labelled data networks a “new utility” and predicted they will generate AUD$1trillion of annual revenue by 2050, rather more than the $131bn data networks generate today.
www.theregister.co.uk/.../

Tell Big Business They're Dreaming, Ben Eltham, New Matilda
It’s difficult to take this stuff seriously, frankly. Australia’s business lobby wants the best of both worlds: low taxes and less regulation, but also a safe and stable business environment in which to operate. And the truth is, those two goals don’t necessarily add
newmatilda.com/.../tell-big-business-they039re-dreaming

Labor 'dirt unit' unleashed on Opposition, Alexander Kirk, ABC
"I think scrutiny of things like Opposition members buying shares in coal mining companies at the same time that they're running round telling people that coal mining will end in this country - that's a piece of information people are entitled to have," the Prime Minister said.
www.abc.net.au/.../4070120

Civil War, Miglo, Café Whispers
Mr Abbott, surprisingly, has been very quiet and is no longer seen bravely darting around the battlefront. Maybe he’s staying indoors so the falling sky won’t flatten him. Closer to the truth is that he’s probably run out of targets to ambush. His terror campaign of fronting up to businesses warning them that they’d be ruined unless his ‘occupation’ of The Lodge
cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/civil-war/

It's the carbon tax wot done it - we're gloomy no matter what, Peter Martin
Mr Hassan thinks anxiety about the carbon tax is part of the explanation and points to special questions asked about perceptions of news. A relatively high proportion of of those surveyed reported hearing news about tax. The proportion who found the news positive was dwarfed by the
www.petermartin.com.au/.../...-it-were-gloomy.html

Middle class suffering? Get real!, Stephen, Koukoulas, Market Economics
The comment relating to the “middle class always suffer[ing] under a Labor Government” is clearly either a biased perception or a misunderstanding rather than a reality. It also
smacks a little of the downward envy that occasionally influences those doing well enough not to qualify for
http://www.marketeconomics.com.au/date/2012/04

Why Leave The West? Patriciawa, Polliepomes
If Malcolm Turnbull remains unacceptable to the right faction of the Liberals, with Andrew Robb washed out and Joe Hockey having lost credibility Christian Porter could fluke his way into the top job federally within a very short time as he did in WA .
polliepomes.wordpress.com/.../

TODAY’S FRONT PAGES
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 15 June 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Posts from the ‘Daily Fix’ Category
http://australianpoliticstv.org/category/daily-fix

Lyn

June 15. 2012 07:39 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad

Andrew Elder just this minute posted a new article:

Sinodinos Exposed as Lightweight, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless
This guy is meant to be one of the titans in the next Coalition government, one of the people of real substance. Maybe he doesn't respect the public enough to level with them (a charge he levelled at Swan). If you really think Wayne Swan is a hack and a lightweight
andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/.../...ightweight.html

Lyn

June 15. 2012 07:49 AM

Psyclaw



Lyn

You are up and at 'em early today. Thanks and good work. I'll have a good read waiting when I arrive home this evening. Smile Smile Smile

Psyclaw

June 15. 2012 08:12 AM

Psyclaw



TT

I address this post to you because I know it will be of interest to you particularly, and because I know that of all the posters on TPS, you comrade are the one that this cap would never fit.

Did you see the reference to concern troll 48 hours ago on PB? Here is the definition:

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php

I like number 4 best.

Like racists and homophobes, concern trolls employ the pattern "I'm not a racist, but...... " or "I have many gay friends but....."  

In the case of concern trolls, their posts are regularly sprinkled with such as "I am a loyal ALP supporter, but......." or "I've been a party member for 40 years, but....." or "I've always voted Labor, but....."

The "buts" then introduce comments like "JG creates a stuff up to drown out every one of her good announcements" or "we need Rudd to return" or "we can't go on just blaming the media" or "it's an impossible task to draw back the 2PP number to even nearly 50%" or "yes, they disapprove of Abbott but they also disapprove of JG"

We need to be on guard about this modus operandi from those who are not really committed to the cause.

Of course Richardson is not a concern troll. He's merely a traitorous entrepreneur.

And Kelty is not a concern troll .....his "don't blame the media" comment was IMHO a mere gee up of the form "we can't just sit on our hands blaming the media .... we have to continue to do the very hard work" . This was certainly an injudicious comment in the context of a conference but as  we anticipated, it gave much ammo to the opponents.

I look forward for to your reply when I return later.

Psyclaw

June 15. 2012 08:24 AM

jaycee

Psyclaw.
I agree. The one's I wince at are those who claim the ABC. is left-wing biased!....while all the time we see the IPA. and its' "running dogs" dominating the Drum and the likes of T. Jones and C.Uhlmann and M.Scott behaving with impertinance and vulgarity toward the office and person of the Prime Minister with impunity!
Purge the lot!..Start at the top!

jaycee

June 15. 2012 08:28 AM

Psyclaw


Further to my comment at 10.44pm last night, analysis of PM Cameron's Leveson evidence is forthcoming this morning.

(1) As LOTO he has admitted to 1,404 formal meetings with the media. This is 26 per month or more than one meeting each and every working day. These are not press conferences ..... they are sit down meetings behind closed doors, to discuss  .........?????

(2) This included 10 formal meetings with Rupert, 14 with James, and 19 with Ms Brooks when she was editor of The Sun.

(3) The Sun's readership was the highest in the UK, 3 million daily. The readership included alrge proportion of the total group of swinging voters.

(4) In the very week after The Sun under Ms Brooks switched support from Gordon Brown to Cameron, Brooks sent him emails "we're in this together ..... I'm rooting for you...." and "we'll have a nice country supper at the weekend". Reports say that when Cameron was being questioned about such emails last night, his complexion went from red to crimson to purple.

(5) Since becoming PM, Cameron has averaged 13 meetings per month with the media. These are not press conferences ..... they are sit down meetings behind closed doors, to discuss  .........?????

And all this self admitted evidence came from a man who had said in earlier evidence "I think the politicians and the media have become too close over the last 20 years."

One comment I heard from the UK this morning was that last night's proceedings will result in unimaginable damage for Cameron as the court cases roll on.

Psyclaw

June 15. 2012 08:33 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Hi Lyn
I've added in Andrew Elder's piece on your special page.

Ad astra

June 15. 2012 10:04 AM

LadyInRed

Psyclaw thanks so much for the summary on the Levison Enquiry. As you point out sit down meetings to discuss what???? Sounds like the media might get more time than his colleagues and staff? Crazy.

LadyInRed

June 15. 2012 10:23 AM

Glorfindel

Speaking of complex issues what are the views of the TPSters in regards to the recent policy announcements on:

- The marine parks
- GP screening of 3 years olds for mental health issues.

Personally I'm very much in favour of the former whith huge reservations about the latter.

Glorfindel

June 15. 2012 10:59 AM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Twitterverse for you.

The first tweets are from Louise Hall Court Reporter for the Sydney Morning Herald, she is in court for the Slipper, Ashby case this morning:-


Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Today is a day to be following @LouiseCHall. She's covering the #slipper #ashby case in the Federal Court. I will RTing her a lot today

Louise Hall‏@LouiseCHall
The second adviser to Peter #Slipper mentioned as working to undermine him is Karen Doane: Federal Court

Louise Hall‏@LouiseCHall
The second adviser to Peter #Slipper mentioned as working to undermine him is Karen Doane: Federal Court

Simon Cullen‏@Simon_Cullen
RT @LouiseCHall Fed court issues subpoenas to News Ltd journalist Steve Lewis and former Liberal minister Mal Brough #slipper

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
RT @LouiseCHall: Fed Court hears of "interesting texts" between James Ashby, Steve Lewis, Mal Brough and another #slipper staffer

Ask Geek‏@geeksrulz
Apparently someone of interest is paying for Ashby's legal fees. The codeword they used was #cashforyou

Louise Hall‏@LouiseCHall
The second adviser to Peter #Slipper mentioned as working to undermine him is Karen Doane: Federal Court


Andrew Catsaras‏@AndrewCatsaras
.@latingle's column today: Abbott needs a new best form of attack www.afr.com/.../abbott_needs_new_best_form_of_attack_UQDZ1bHqvXphjdq692xGuN

The Punch News‏@punch_news
The Opposition wants you to be afraid. Be very afraid. http://thepun.ch/32c ☜ #thepunch
Nic‏@Nyx2701
O'Farrell accused of 'grab' at pensioner carbon rebate via @SMH - #WTF BOF! http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/-20d66.html

MrRabbitt‏@Antibolt
Press, MPs too close: Cameron - http://www.theage.com.au/world/-20dd6.html...but our press want us to believe there is no problem here ...

The Masked Crusader‏@themaskedcrus
Palmer would 'write off' Australia www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120510-1ye8d.html via @brisbanetimes

ethicalmartini‏@ethicalmartini
Gina Rinehart spending peanuts to join the monkeys on Fairfax Media board http://ow.ly/bACLq Looking forward to Shitty Mining Herald #SMH

John Pratt‏@Jackthelad1947
Australia's official digital 'visionary': Conroy #auspol Run Rabbott Run http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/-20bip.html

Ken ‏@KoenjiEikaiwa
It's time for irrational Ray Hadley to be removed from the airwaves & 2GB closed down for permitting it to go to air http://bit.ly/MTjMY6

Marcus Priest‏@MeddlesomPriest
The Oz and Tele always bang on about RET but Shanahan says you don't hear much about it. Makes you think...
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg75f-1226396008808

Benjamin Law‏@mrbenjaminlaw
"I’m going to make the call now. This guy has no idea what he’s doing." Today's other highlight: JB on Campbell Newman.www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120613-209q2.html

Benjamin Law‏@mrbenjaminlaw
If you missed it, @feed_the_chooks wrote a killer piece today about the importance of high-end journalism in democracy. www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120613-20af8.html

Technology Spectator‏@technologyspec
Malcolm Turnbull's Coalition gagging technologyspectator.com.au/malcolm-turnbulls-coalition-gagging

Spencer Jolly‏@SpencerJolly
Peter Costello suggests 100 dollar levy on all ratepayers to help restore state finances http://yfrog.com/h7hpzqb

Stephen Koukoulas‏@TheKouk
Lamb prices fall. www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/.../474001_sheep.html

Lyn

June 15. 2012 11:07 AM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
You’ve given us another exciting set of links for the weekend.  I’m still going through them, but wanted to draw attention particularly to the excellent analysis by Possum: What Australians believe, which is essential reading for anyone who seeks to understand the sometimes-conflicting results of public opinion polling.  As usual Possum is spot on.

Please read the whole piece.  To whet your appetite here is his conclusion (my bolding):

”What comes out from this broad snapshot is that what Australians believe about the role of government in our society and economy isn’t necessarily what our institutions believe or practice, and probably hasn’t been for a while. Our beliefs as a country are certainly far removed from many participants in the national debate that pretend to speak on behalf of our population and on behalf of our interests.

“Whatever the faults, foibles or otherwise of these national beliefs – and this isn’t an exercise in either support of, or opposition to them – our national debates on the role of government in our society and economy are becoming increasingly isolated from what the majority of the country actually believes.

“Our public debates assume that the benefits of privatisation have reached a conclusion – the public believes that privatisation was and is a catastrophe and that government should own a larger sector of the economy because we trust government more than large private sector corporations.

“Our public debates assume that smaller government and less regulation is universally beneficial – the public supports substantially higher levels of regulation on just about any topic you care to name and struggles to find something they’d like the government to become smaller in.

“Our public debates assume that economic reform has been such an obviously beneficial thing to ordinary Australians that it no longer needs explaining – the public believes that corporations took all benefits of that reform, leaving  them with little more than a casualised workforce and reduced job security.

“If we keep having our national debates like this – excluding  larger and larger sections of our population and ignoring what they believe – they won’t be national debates, we’ll just be talking among ourselves generating ever increasing quantities of public opprobrium, contempt and general unhinging. If you haven’t noticed – this is where we are at right now.

“Our national debates need more participants and institutions talking with and to the public, acknowledging what they believe, explaining the increasing complexity of the world and bringing the population along with them in the debate through persuasion. What we have now – a political system struggling to be heard calmly, institutions talking among themselves and a bunch of vested interests shouting and threatening everything that moves – let alone a media unsure of how to be a constructive participant anymore – it will only end in grief.

“As a country we have an unparalleled opportunity right in front of us – not only in deciding the type of society we want to be, but having the capacity to generate the wealth we need to solve any and all of our problems. It would be a tragedy if we fucked this up because some of us refused to acknowledge how important it actually is to bring the public along with us.


Here’s the link:
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../  

Ad astra

June 15. 2012 11:09 AM

Lyn

Hi Ad

Glad you are enjoying the links.

Looks like I got a bit over-excited twitterverse  the second advisor to Peter Slipper Karen Doane being named, sorry I have duplicated the tweet.

SmileSmileSmile

Lyn

June 15. 2012 11:13 AM

TalkTurkey

Patriciawa
Sorry I didn't see your pome until this morning (later than 5.05 AM at that!) and then I read it through and noted that the last rhyme seemed a little uncomfortable . . . Lochivar is good, considering the trekking involved, so it sort of locks you in to finding a rhyme for it. I thought perhaps to change simple 'Julia' to Joo-lee-ahhh! (italics too, for emphasis), but it's a bit stopgap. Although that's the way I'd probably say it to somebody who failed to recognize her.

But I'm glad you've found a happy solution. Please post it here!

I do note that you are always improving the rhythms in your verse.

You just about wrote the one below, all the rhymes are yours, did you realize that or are you an unconscious rhymphomaniac?

Here's what you wrote:
Good morning TT, Lyn, NormanK, AA  - everyone. At last the bloody thing's done!  I'm now off to bed with Walter Scott's rhythms beating still in my head. I've had an enjoyable night lit by midnight oil.  I hope you enjoy the results of my toil.    

Here's a rearrangement. It took me probably 12 minutes from start to now.

Greetings TT, Lyn, NK, AA  - everyone.
It's late but at long last the bloody thing's done!
I've been up all night, now I'm off to bed
With Walter Scott's rhythms alive in my head.
An enjoyable night, lit by past-midnight oil!  
I hope you enjoy the results of my toil.

It's a great feeling Yes Patricia when a rhyme works out happy.    

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, Psyclaw, thank you for the confidence Comrade, (I might be inclined to concern-troll some on the Right, except they're not worth our time as I've told you re some of our own little tame homegrown trollflock, whom we keep for our amusement just to poke fun at.) They are lowlife and toxic those Concern Trolls, fifth columnists of the fifth estate, but we are onto them and the very existence of the term means everybody of good will is very savvy about the various forms their trolling can take.

They don't all come from the Right by the way, though most do. Beware of Greens bearing griefs!

It's a very good term Trolls, combining the meanings of under-the-bridge nasties with the other sense, to trail a fishing line behind a boat, and you know what ends trolling fastest, no goats over the bridge and no bites on the line!

  

TalkTurkey

June 15. 2012 11:14 AM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
More interesting Twitterverse.  It looks like the Slipper/Ashby case is becoming more intriguing with Steve Lewis and Mal Brough being subpoened.

Ad astra

June 15. 2012 11:18 AM

DMW

Good Morning NK,
re your upset and (maybe?) nausea around Leigh Sales and no doubt many other persons claiming to be interviewers par excellence may I most humbly offer that you take a look at the pic I linked to @ June 14. 2012 09:32 PM.
twitter.com/.../1

With a touch of modification and suitably placed near your television screen it may act as a reminder that there are some remedies, or at least some soothing solutions, for rising ire. Smile

And from my deep and meaningless archives a couple of aphorisms to ponder:

Don't get angry, get elected

Don't be a small cog in the machine, be a spanner in the works

DMW

June 15. 2012 11:28 AM

2353

Here's the link to Brough being served with papers.  Are Pyne and the person funding Ashby's action going to be called as well?  This could get interesting.

2353

June 15. 2012 11:29 AM

2353

www.abc.net.au/.../4072794

I'll try that again ^^^ is the link

2353

June 15. 2012 11:38 AM

Lyn

Hi Ad

More on Peter Slipper

Text trail reveals link between Ashby, journo and Slipper's rivals: court June 15, 2012 - 11:15AM
Julian Burnside QC, for the Commonwealth, told Justice Steven Rares that mobile phone records show Mr Ashby and another advisor, Karen Doane, "were working together to undermine Mr Slipper when they will still working for him
www.smh.com.au/.../...ls-court-20120615-20e55.html

Lyn

June 15. 2012 11:40 AM

Patriciawa

Brilliant, TT - semi sleepwalking aware of that but I couldn't have done what you did with it.  Thank you I will save that with my notes to the pome!

Lyn has very kindly linked to the pome polliepomes.wordpress.com/.../, and I hope even amid all the court drama of today or later at leisure you get to see it on site with the notes.  There is something special there you and other Swordsters might appreciate!

Patriciawa

June 15. 2012 12:14 PM

LadyInRed

Lynn thanks for your links. The what Australian Believe is so interseting. I suspect everyone who voted for Newman in Queensland are about to get a dose of .....yeah but.....when we voted for you we didn't realise you actually stood for smaller government, and we thought you would nt sell our assets.....think again....apparently now he has to sell assets also. So he now has to do everything that Australians Believe they don't want. So expect a backlash against federal liberal in 2013 from QLD (I know everyone thinks state and federal issue don't influence - but I am not so sure).

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120615-20e3f.html

LadyInRed

June 15. 2012 12:20 PM

LadyInRed

Interesting developments with Slipper's case. Seems that Ashby, Doanes were working against Slipper to the benefit of Mal Brough, leaking info via text messages to News Ltd.

Justice Rares granted leave to issue subpoenas to Mr Lewis, Mr Brough, Ms Doane and Mr Ashby's media spokesman Anthony McClellan.

A notice to produce will be issued to Mr Ashby.

www.smh.com.au/.../...ls-court-20120615-20e55.html

LadyInRed

June 15. 2012 12:24 PM

TalkTurkey

Swordsfolks
Are we winning or what!
Abborttians in full disorganized retreat on every front.

The "poll" results will be better next time. Don't know how much but a bit better I bet. And in 3 weeks the sky won't have fallen, and that is when Abbortt will go ape. An ape going ape!

Brough is ratshit I think, nasty little fingers burnt, pometic justice if ever!


'THEY' are not looking good!

TalkTurkey

June 15. 2012 12:41 PM

Psyclaw

TT n 2353

Thanks for the links.

Rare J has done what we all wanted ..... Subpoenas!!!!! Great!!!!!

These so far have been on the application of the Commonwealth. Now for subpoenas requested by the Slipper team ..... Come on down Pyne, Bishop, Hockey, and hopefully Abbott the fool!!!!!

Psyclaw

June 15. 2012 12:43 PM

Psyclaw

Sorry

Thanks to Lyn and 2353

Psyclaw

June 15. 2012 02:09 PM

adelaidegirl

I will be advising MBro prior to his court appearance, working on his presentation before the court, answering questions honestly and openly.  For example, "I can't recall."

How many times will that get trotted out?

adelaidegirl

June 15. 2012 02:19 PM

NormanK

adelaidegirl

You are just so  last year. Smile

"I have no specific knowledge ....." is much more the fashion in 2012.

NormanK

June 15. 2012 02:19 PM

Ad astra

Patriciawa
Thank you for your splendid pome Out of the West.

I identity with your concluding lines:

Where he’ll meet his match, our latter day Lochinvar.
Ask any pundit,  “Who’s that?” and they’ll say, “Julia!”

Ad astra

June 15. 2012 02:21 PM

Ad astra

adelaidegirl
Good to see you again.  Memory loss is always a great 'out', one the might afflict the serious players in this sordid saga.

Ad astra

June 15. 2012 02:39 PM

adelaidegirl

Thanks Norman, I struggle to keep up with such programmatic specificities Smile  I still think things are "cool" and "groovy"!

No wonder "dirt unit scandalgate" burst onto the scene yesterday.  This is shaping up to be cast as a problem for the government.  I don't quite know how but it will be spun this way.

Add to this the MSM's lack of interest in Abbott's comments, when Health Minister, that of course they have a dirt unit, who doesn't?

blogs.news.com.au/.../

Nuff said.
recaptcha:  nuffrees subversive Smile

adelaidegirl

June 15. 2012 02:40 PM

2353

AA - is the condition you diagnose real or confected? Laughing

2353

June 15. 2012 02:43 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Twitterati:-

Simon Cullen‏@Simon_Cullen
MT @acmadotgov ACMA: 2GB fails 2 make reasonable effort 2 ensure Alan Jones climate change statement was accurate http://bit.ly/MU5MNI

Drag0nista‏@Drag0nista
Grats has her good and bad days, but this is a good one http://bit.ly/KZxGti

Cam Price‏@campricenews  Sky News reporter
Slipper's legal team planning to put Mal Brough and Anthony McClellan on the stand.. Argue #Ashby case is a politically motivated exercise..

Cam Price‏@campricenews
@LouiseCHall @sspencer_63 @bowlerbarrister I can't imagine Steve Lewis will want anything to do with this. Protecting your source etc..

OPPOSITION frontbencher Christopher Pyne says James Ashby, the former staffer of parliamentary speaker Peter Slipper, never passed information to him.
www.dailytelegraph.com.au/.../story-e6freuyi-1226396635733

Jackson in poor health, judge told @ 1.25pm

HSU national secretary Kathy Jackson is not in good health, has not seen enough of her children and needs more time to prepare her case, a Federal Court judge has been told.

She informed the court she had returned HSU property, including her car and computer, as ordered by Mr Moore, but she was granted leave to keep her phone until she could remove data from it.Justice Flick adjourned the matter until next Thursday.
www.theage.com.au/.../...-told-20120615-20ehm.html

Adrian B‏@Volvo_of_doom
Kathy Jackson's medical condition "did not appear to impede" her "well publicised speech to the HR Nicholls society during the week". Ouch!

Margaret‏@Margy011
Pamela_November @razhorse @FrancieJones @LizBuff46 Jackson removing data from phone before handback a bad look unless scrutinized first

Jones breached broadcast laws
The broadcasting watchdog has found that Sydney radio host Alan Jones made disrespectful and disparaging comments about Julia Gillard.
www.sbs.com.au/.../Jones-breached-broadcast-laws

James Massola‏@jamesmassola
BUT PMO says #cashforyou has been a success because it has trended across Australia & started a convo. (free): afr.com/.../pm_cashforyou_twitter_fail_hny4EOa3n2hpHgIixluigM

Lyn

June 15. 2012 02:44 PM

Patriciawa

There you are, TT, Ad Astra thought my last two lines of that first draft worked!  And I went through all that agonising and re-writing!  Never mind I had to do notes and illustrate.

AA I hope you have time amid all today's trials etc. or maybe later to visit the site. Besides the re-write on the pome there's a bit of background on Mr. Porter, but more importantly a very nice image of our PM, which I think does portray something more than her quite stunning beauty.
polliepomes.wordpress.com/.../



Patriciawa

June 15. 2012 03:53 PM

Cuppa

TalkTurkey wrote:

And in 3 weeks the sky won't have fallen, and that is when Abbortt will go ape. An ape going ape!

Lol, you just reminded me of this cartoon of the Noposition leader:

4.bp.blogspot.com/.../...tt+ape-osition+leader.jpg

Cuppa

June 15. 2012 04:07 PM

Patriciawa

Lyn, thanks for all your linking on blog sites and in the twitterverse.  So much happening.   You've really helped me make sense of it all, more so today than usual with such a late rising and having to find my way back into where it's all happening!

Interesting to see Kathy Jackson described as 'embattled' - there's a shift,  eh?

Patriciawa

June 15. 2012 04:16 PM

TalkTurkey

Patricia
Shows how much Ad astra knows about rhyme! Smile

And Yes that was one of her photos from the Women's Whatever before the election, that one I said was the only women's mag I've ever bought. Vivacity personified.

Psyclaw YES YES YES! Is there any feeling better than poetic justice-cum-schadenfreude wrt such as Abbortt and Pyne?

Adelaide Girl Hi, Jaycee I think you've been here before but welcome anyway. Any other comrades who may have slipped through the cracks of our welcomers, welcome too.

A little bit of gleefulness creeping into my war-dance . . .  

TalkTurkey

June 15. 2012 04:25 PM

Sir Ian Crisp

I will be advising MBro prior to his court appearance, working on his presentation before the court, answering questions honestly and openly.  For example, "I can't recall."

How many times will that get trotted out?

adelaidegirl


I don't think we should speculate on that matter. Let's call in the expert on convenient memory loss, ALP 'luminary' Dr Carmen Lawrence.


Carmen Lawrence (below) went blank too. Poor Carmen. She was Health Minister when she was grilled in the Marks commission in to the Penny Easton scandal. Her count: 14 ''I don't recalls', six ''I don't remembers'' and four ''I can't remember''.

blogs.theage.com.au/.../wonderful_memories.html


Sir Ian Crisp

June 15. 2012 04:30 PM

TalkTurkey

Cuppa
That's very funny!
In Adelaide Zoo the best-loved, worst-considered inmate was poor dear old George the orang-utan, kept in solitary confinement for donkey's years. I was wondering if George the graphic-manipulator was the one who did this wonderful primatisation of Abbortt?

Funny, Archbigot Pell is at least a *primate*, Abbortt didn't manage to complete his priest studies, he'll never actually make it to proper apehood . . .    

4.bp.blogspot.com/.../...tt+ape-osition+leader.jpg

TalkTurkey

June 15. 2012 04:34 PM

Gravel

Lyn

Thanks for all your links and twitter stuff.  Not long watched Nicola Roxen about the Slipper/Ashby stuff.  The Labor party is out fighting right now.  Have set tv to tape all the news' as have Mum here so don't want to bore her with it all.  

Gravel

June 15. 2012 04:53 PM

LadyInRed

Kathy is not well - seeks adjournment. Wasn't too ill to address the Nicholls Society - this woman has some serious issues in the way she treats propriety.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8484184

LadyInRed

June 15. 2012 05:06 PM

Psyclaw



LadyInRed

Poor Kathy. My heart bleeds. What has she done to deserve all this!

Well.....let me start.......  !!!!!! .........

Psyclaw

June 15. 2012 05:31 PM

Ad astra

Patriciawa
Yes. I did read the rest of your piece on polliepomes.  Now I know more about Christian Porter, of whom I had not previously heard.  Thank you.  Regarding you last two lines – I like both forms.

Ad astra

June 15. 2012 05:33 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thanks for the Twitterati.  I think we have a fascinating time ahead with the Slipper/Ashby/Brough/Lewis case and the likely ‘failed memories’ of the participants.  Pity it has now to wait until late July.

The HSU saga seems ready to hot up too.  Wouldn’t it be a laugh if both cases blew up in the faces of the malfeasants?

I’m working on the next piece.  When I’m quiet on TPS that’s what I’m usually doing.

Ad astra

June 15. 2012 07:39 PM

bilko

test comment

bilko

June 15. 2012 07:50 PM

bilko

Lyn
I was hoping to see the Canberra Times front page included in your selection because this was on it today
"
This was posted on PB 3872 by “Zoidloid

Posted Friday, June 15, 2012 at 10:16 am | Permalink
I’m not sure if this story has been posted overnight
www.canberratimes.com.au/.../...0120614-20c0g.html
A Canberra radio host has been banned from the airwaves by his employer after an on-air joke this morning about "upskirting" the Prime Minister.
Radio 2CCs Jorian Gardner has been silenced for at least a week by station management after suggesting during the station's morning show that Communications Minister Stephen Conroy should wear a "penis cam" during cabinet meetings so that he could film up the skirt of Prime Minister Julia Gillard.
There is no mention of the radio station giving an apology to the PM and Minister Conroy.
This episode joins the list of despicable comments by media shockjocks. It would be equally obnoxious if the persons named were Coalition figures.
Something is wrong if this sort of toilet “humour” is allowed to be broadcast around Australia without restriction.”
My comment follows

I totally agree with the above final comment, the country seems to be snow boarding down to Abbort's level. It was good that the Management smacked the shrilljock down a weeks suspension and a mumbled apology that other "infamous Jock's do it does not cut the ice.
Sorry to be off topic and thanks to PB for providing the link although I am unable to highlight it must speak to guru grandson again.

Complex issues are not Abbort's forte and while he is on a so called winning run,  he will continue in the same vein. Good day to all swordspersons.
ps AA i seem to be able to log on at the moment

bilko

June 15. 2012 07:51 PM

2353

So Costello  costs $700k to tell Newman that Queensland DOES have around the debt level the ALP Government announced in January and barring floods, cyclones and GFC's the state will pay off this debt in about 3 years - again as reported by the ALP Government in January.  Queensland owes around 23% of it's GDP - I bet a lot of people paying off a mortgage would kill to be in a similar position.

So what does Newman do - threatens peoples livelihood through job cuts, cuts infrastructure spending so that those he sacks can't get a job elsewhere and spins the "headline $100b blowout" out of this world - which is a worst possible scenario if there is some more large natural disasters and a GFC by 2018.

Makes you sick - doesn't it?

2353

June 15. 2012 08:32 PM

Ad astra

bilko
Good to see you back.  But I like your old Gravatar best!

The level of disrespect that grubs like 2CC's Jorian Gardner show for our nation's leader is reprehensible. He sounds like another Alan Jones.

Ad astra

June 15. 2012 09:33 PM

TalkTurkey

What a day for the Labors eh!
Routing Ashby and Kathy J!
Naughty little girls and boys
Playing with explosive toys!
Double-bunger Godwin Greches
Nasty juvenile wretches:
Slipper and Thomson in the clear,
Liberals in the poo, Oh Dear!

TalkTurkey

June 15. 2012 09:47 PM

bilko

aa
Next step is to restore my gravatar
cheers

bilko

June 16. 2012 01:04 AM

Cuppa

In the poo, is just the spot
For the Liberals, the blinkin' lot.
In the poo, in the gutter
In the shit, it doesn't matter.

Cuppa

June 16. 2012 02:22 AM

TalkTurkey

Sometimes this site feels like Pluto.

I think everybody must be out dancing for joy at the inversions that are happening so deliciously for Labor (but Lyn is everywhere she's everywhere, tweeting away on Twitter, well what should we have expected, she's the original Tweetie, here she is on Twitter saying to Craig Emerson wtte Hey Craig look ya gotta read this . . . and you know what, he bloody will too!)

But isn't all this like Utegate deja vu happening all over again!

(BTW Am I the only one who has trouble keeping the two cases apart, Slipper and Thomson?)
It's all so-o-o-o-o conspiratorial, it can't not be!
Abbortt and Pyne are obviously in it up to their necks, Ashby and Jackson and Brough and all the rest of them, they are conspirators and liars but they are, more, bumblers and mugs, thinking this was all never going to come unstuck!

[ Aside:-
Going back:
Did Turdball actually not know that Grech was lying? - That in fact he was Grech's (and who-was-it's-?-I-forget's?) dupe?
- In which case he is/would be very much less culpable than if he connived at creating a lie from the outset. What's more if ever he were to call Abbortt out, as don't put it past him to put it mildly, he could use that as currency in his rolling of the Mad Monk.
Well let's face it, Abbortt is a goner. Ad and I agreed on that weeks ago, Smile , well we did, so there you are, it's not whether it's when, and Turdy will obviously be front runner now, the Far Right having kakked itself and will be in complete disarray by the time this little phase plays out, price on carbon issue included.

(Then it's Man the Boats because that is the last issue left and we must and will force a win on that, you mark my words. Where win means the best compromise that might be hoped for, given that no-one will be happy but where simple humanity must be the guiding principle. The issue is now, who will crack first, the Greens or the Abborttians? Because they both know Labor now never will. Labor will govern, and one or other of our impediments must give way.)

Anyway, Beware of Turdball. I think it likely that he will lead the Coalition to the next election, just such speculation as mine here multiplied by the blogosphere makes it more likely, and he could be a problem, more so anyway than Abbortt. But he carries too much baggage in the Coalition, he can never hope to get any depth of loyalty, so he's a faint hope for them at best. But they have an agonising freaking-out choice, how funny, Hee Hee. ]

But to get back on track -

Whether Turdy was or wasn't aware that the very strange Godwin Grech (who would be him now!?) was a liar, there can be no doubt that Pyne and Brough are deeply and critically involved, so when I say Utegate deja vu revisited this is whole dimensions worse - much more devious and preplanned, with what might have been plausible denial without such things as Thompson and tete-a-tetes in the Speaker's office FFS!

But these are bumblers and mugs as I said, as well as being criminals - for these are criminal matters, be it noted, more serious by than anything ever alleged against either Slipper or Thomson, and another difference is, these ones will be provable because they happened - in my belief, and in due consideration of the published evidence anyway.

These conspirators were always too stupid to pull off their deceptions, but as is often the case with crims, they were also too stupid to know that. So here they are with their arses hanging out, now they have to face inquiries that they meant to focus on victims not themselves, before judges who are not in the slightest blinkered to the likes of puffed-up poodles and boorish bullies prepared to ignore the rule of law to get their hands on power. Judges aren't fools even if they are rarely very radical (but the ones who are, Justice Kirby e.g., are Gold), and they don't like being #*cked around nor answered deviously. Sucker, Pyne, to think you could sucker them . . . Hoist with your own petard (that's the correct expression btw, with, not on nor by, anyway a petard was an explosive device for breaking a wall) so yeah these conspiracies have blown up in their faces and I'm very happy now.

It would be nice if both Peter Slipper and Craig Thomson could come through this squeaky-clean, but if that's not possible, if they make some little bits of mud stick, well nobody is perfect, I can easily forgive that.

On the other hand, not everybody is a lying conniving insulting jumped-up prig like Poodle Pyne. If I'm going to throw stones at anyone at all, my target won't be Thomson!

  

BURN 'em! BURN 'em I say!

      



    

TalkTurkey

June 16. 2012 08:47 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad and Everybody

Frances Jones has typed this article in the court yesterday.

You must take the time to read every line.

I promise the whole article is well worth your time.

   "Court by  Frances Jones"

Excerpt:-

National Secretary of the Health Services Union, Kathy Jackson sitting at the front between two women, one in a red shirt who was here with Kathy Jackson’s children last Friday. Kathy Jackson has made more effort with her appearance this week, she was casual last week. Her hair is out, blow dried. She looks more serious.

Kathy Jackson: Who does Mr Crawshaw appear for? … No access to email system or phone so I can’t get into my office to continue as national secretary of the union.
Justice Flick: Have you returned the car?
Kathy Jackson: Yes.
Justice Flick: Have you returned the computer?
Kathy Jackson: Yes.
Justice Flick: Ms Jackson I will accept what you say but if that consideration… Ms Jackson just wants to download some data from it… I thought she wanted to keep the phone.
Kathy Jackson: My phone number is the same number as the national office. I’m uncontactable at the moment.

Comment explains presentation:

Thanks Eric. There are lots of …’s because court started at 9.30 and went til 12ish. People speak very quickly and no recording devices are allowed so I had to write everything by hand then type it up later. All the investigative/criminal stuff is best left to the experts in those fields. I’m a psychotherapist so a lot of my interest is in psychology and behaviour. Cheers.

francesjones.wordpress.com/2012/06/15/court/

Lyn

June 16. 2012 09:04 AM

Linda

www.canberratimes.com.au/.../...0120615-20f6b.html

Great summary by Chris Johnson!!

Linda

June 16. 2012 09:32 AM

Granny Anny

I thought I might break a two or three year habit of ignoring Murdoch's opinion writers and find out who Peter van Onselen thought Abbott's slackers were. It's behind the firewall so I didn't.

Granny Anny

June 16. 2012 09:49 AM

Psyclaw

Morning All

My prayer for the day:

Dog Albitey, FFS give me strength. Amen.

Here we've got Jackson, lauded by the MSM, accepted by them cartee blanchee, no analysis, no questions, free adverts every other day, free kick at anyone who looks sideways for months.

And we've got Abbott, protector of poor unionists, who sees this knightess in bright, white, purest of pure shining armour riding out of the sunrise on on a white steed, saviour of the world, whistleblower of impeccable bona fides, throwing brickbats and accusations at his most favoured target of the moment, Craig Thomson.

Here had arrived all his point culminants (Fr) in the one burst ...... rapture..... he suddenly found himself in heaven below. "This is one orgy I won't miss" says he.

Well all good things come to an end, sometimes in the least expected way, especially when the id (Freud) is in charge.

Bring it on! I've ordered extra popcorn. The show of the century is nigh and Abbott's comeuppance is about to descend. Armageddon for him.

And especially for the 44 moderates who, against their better judgement shown when they voted against him in December 2009, have willingly given him licence to kick, wreck, and trash every parliamentary custom and convention, and have overlooked the most egregious, juvenile, narcissistic, aggressive, and vitriolic behaviour ever seen in an Australian politician.

We've suffered this tantrum for for 646 continual days since September 8, 2010 when the Independents put his want of trustworthiness on the record.

May those moderates suffer the coming consequences of ignoring their consciences and giving free rein to this egotistical pug.

And what about Jackson.

Well throughout the press yesterday she became the embattled one. Poor thing. She's heaped muchos crappus on all and sundry, including a judge and her QC, and just when it appears that she might be brought to book, she metamorphisises into the victim. Aided and abetted by those looking for a new slant on the saga.

And the pièce de résistance is that she now appeals to the judge (that she asked to recuse himself last week), that the new HSU Administrator is not giving enough time to the managing the HSU .

That it's been managing itself for 6 months while she's been on her frolic is now irrelevant to her.

Dog Albitey, FFS give me strength. Amen. Purleeze!

Psyclaw

June 16. 2012 10:12 AM

TalkTurkey

Good Morning Lyn,
Yes I read Frances Jones' court report last night, she works hard to write all that down, I wonder if she does shorthand?
She is another person who like yourself is giving heaps of time and effort to bring us Truth!

Linda, Greetings, yeah good article too.  

How long can Abbortt last? What about Pyne? They have taken a Great Leap Forward in their timetable to get themselves brought low, I still say Abbortt Remember The Ides Of September but his contagious political leprosy is progressing at an unexpectedly rapid rate now. His horrid mob might want to excise him asap now, they know *J*U*L*I*A* has the wood on him and he can only go down from here.

I see more people each day predicting his demise by Crispmess, Albo being one just yesterday, though I think he was repeating his own earlier prediction in that regard.

Beware of eating too much popcorn in the weeks and months ahead.
In excess it can be a cereal killer.      

TalkTurkey

June 16. 2012 10:40 AM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thanks for the link to the Frances Jones account of proceedings before Justice Flick regarding the HSU matter.   What an extraordinary mess for Justice Flick to sort out.  It is veritably Monty Pythonesque.  Goodness knows how it will end; Kathy Jackson’s behaviour is bizarre.

Linda
Thanks for the link to the interesting Chris Johnson article about Tony Abbott’s No-Show on Q&A.  It’s about time Abbott was called out for his cowardice.

Ad astra

June 16. 2012 10:58 AM

Michael

Abbott needs to cull his underperformers

    * by: Peter van Onselen
    * From: The Australian
    * June 16, 2012

(text follows below)


This one throws a cat amongst the pigeons, a long overdue "cat", by the way.

Of course, high estimation of the ability of Kelly O'Dwyer in the article, which is demonstrated consistently by the lady to be, unfortunately for her and the Coalition, rather inflated 'high estimation', truly expose Abbott's real problem with his team 'so prepared for government right now' - they're all duds.

Harsh, but... have a look at them, from the top down. Dud to the bone, from the top down.

Still, this article is not really about Abbott's current team, it's about Coalition leadership. Naming the supposed wonder from the West, and the recycled interventionist from Queensland, Christian Porter and Mal Brough, gives this away.

The former is the man Paul Sheehan fell over himself to endorse in the SMH earlier this week, but who is also the man who appears to have quit his one-heartbeat-from-the-Premiership position in the WA state government because the current Premier wouldn't kiss Porter's shoes before putting his own runners on and handing over the top job.

The latter is the man rubber-stamped as a future leader in the Howard government days who then went on to be tossed out by his own electors.

Find a barrel and scrape it, Conservatives.

By the by, one of the few articles NOT behind the paywall at The Australian today reports Brough's part in the Slipper set-up tale. Interestingly 'public' coverage considering just about everything except The Australian's logo is paywalled these days.

This is Peter Van Onselen's article, de-paywalled.

"Abbott needs to cull his underperformers


In 1980 Victor Navasky published a book titled Naming Names. It was a comprehensive account of the Hollywood blacklist - entertainers alleged to have links to the communist movement - during the heady days of the Cold War.

Back then, naming names meant discrediting rivals. It's no different in politics today, even if the stakes aren't nearly as high. Politicians often background journalists about rivals, both on their own side of the parliament and in the ranks of their party opponents.

Which is why watching both main party leaders deny any knowledge of dirt units during the week was sickening. They must assume we are beyond stupid to believe they don't realise such practices go on.

But naming names isn't always easy and it isn't always the wrong thing to do either, especially when it involves identifying underperforming frontbenchers past their use-by date. Too often commentators lament the failure to make better use of certain MPs within the parliament, without highlighting exactly who needs to make way for that to happen. That's the harder task.
The most influential people in Sport

I thought it worth getting the ball rolling in this column. It's time to name names.

Liberal Party shadow ministers Kevin Andrews, Ian Macfarlane, David Johnston, Michael Ronaldson, Marise Payne, Bob Baldwin, Concetta Fierravanti-Wells, Stuart Robert and Sussan Ley - more than one-third of Liberal frontbenchers - are what you might call underperformers. If each and every one of them were demoted, the Coalition would hardly miss a beat.

Some observers add shadow finance minister Andrew Robb and the ever-present Bronwyn Bishop to that list, but I do not. Robb has a sound economic mind and Bishop, despite her age, was one of the better performing shadows on the hustings at the last election. Begrudgingly I'll concede that she has earned her place, though I'm not sure that Tony Abbott's commitment to move her into cabinet in government (assuming she retains the same portfolio) is in order.

Abbott may not reshuffle his line-up this side of the next election because he has no intention of upsetting the discipline that presently exists within Coalition ranks. He would also need to demote more people than he can promote because he is oversubscribed on his frontbench with a one-off exemption having been granted for a larger than usual pool of salary-drawing shadows.

But if Abbott wins the next election, to be an effective government he will need to recalibrate his line-up and do so dramatically, partly to ensure the best in the team are doing the heavy lifting, partly to avoid weak ministers undermining stability in government, and partly to appease the ambition of backbenchers and new parliamentary entrants already dismayed by the lack of merit going into frontbench selections.

Andrews as a minister presided over the Mohamed Haneef debacle and the failed selling of Work Choices. He is one of the "experienced" former Howard government ministers Abbott likes to refer to when batting away criticisms of his frontbench. But is the experience Andrews has really first-rate?

Macfarlane was lucky to survive as a junior minister way back in 2001. He was under the pump for GST discrepancies in his electoral back yard, but opposition attacks were completely overshadowed by the arrival of the MV Tampa. As Malcolm Turnbull's right-hand man trying to do a deal on the passing of the emissions trading scheme, he displayed true political ineptitude. Granted Macfarlane's understanding of the resources portfolio he now occupies is solid, but a new generation of Liberals demands he be cast aside, at least to a junior portfolio.

Johnston as the shadow defence spokesman is rarely seen, despite the significance of the portfolio he occupies. While he is a close ally of deputy leader Julie Bishop, he lacks the clout to give the portfolio the sounding in cabinet it deserves. Again a junior ministry at best is more befitting him.

Each of the above three frontbenchers are part of the shadow cabinet. The other names mentioned earlier are junior shadow ministers, but who could seriously suggest that any of them have added to the argument for a change of government? Junior ministers should be experienced ministers who can safely hold down a difficult portfolio or rising stars with the potential to move into cabinet.

None of Ronaldson, Payne, Baldwin, Fierravanti-Wells, Robert and Ley can claim ministerial experience during the Howard years. Equally, they are not up-and-comers. Payne was thought to be an up-and-coming moderate for years, but what has she done with her shadow portfolio of COAG? Ronaldson was a Turnbull lieutenant who has been on the slide ever since, certain to be demoted in government.

Baldwin has never been classified as an up-and-comer and his once marginal seat is no longer in need of the profile-lifting impact a frontbench position can offer. Not that Baldwin's profile is high anyway, which is a failing given his responsibilities for tourism. The sector is struggling in the two-speed economy and, as the shadow spokesman, he should have done more to identify ways of solving the crisis.

Robert may be well placed to take a hill, but war isn't politics and he has shown little sign of adding value beyond following orders. Fierravanti-Wells and Ley are not poor performers; they just don't justify taking up places more worthy alternatives should fill.

It's certainly not all about making a media impact. Bruce Billson, for example, isn't the best media performer but his backroom work on policy is first-rate and he understands small business. The names mentioned can't lay claim to similar value-adding.

Those identified need to be demoted if Abbott is going to make best use of the significant pool of talent making its way into the conservatives' parliamentary ranks.

John Howard's former chief of staff Arthur Sinodinos, former Optus executive Paul Fletcher, former Peter Costello and Howard senior advisers Kelly O'Dwyer and Jamie Briggs are all languishing on the backbench. The first two in particular simply must move on to the frontbench in government immediately.

Added to the list are likely new entrants: former West Australian treasurer Christian Porter and former Howard minister Mal Brough, both of whom are contesting preselection for the next election. And there are others, such as Nine Entertainment executive David Coleman.

Sono after the Coalition's 2007 election defeat, I was as critical as anyone about the lack of adequate renewal that had taken place within conservative ranks. Since that time, however, there has been a wave of new MPs entering the parliament, and more are on their way. But they need to be used.

Abbott will tell us that his first order of business if elected prime minister will be to repeal the carbon tax. Actually he needs to get his own house in order first."

Michael

June 16. 2012 11:30 AM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Twitterverse for you:-

Mike Kelly MP‏@MikeKellyMP
I have the feeling this is going to be the ute gate saga magnified by 10 http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/-20feq.html

Roxon says Slipper case politically motivated
www.abc.net.au/.../4074408?WT.mc_id=newsmail

SHRINKING: HSU’s long nightmare nearly at its end as Jackson has no credit left, Vex News
Highlights of her report from Friday’s hearing, fused with the latest from intrepid members of the famed VEXNEWS Investigations Unit:
www.vexnews.com/.../

Darin Sullivan‏@darinsullivan09
#FBEU UPDATE: SITREP 24/2012 - In this issue: Who voted Liberal? NSW Budget Who voted Liberal? Workers Co... http://ow.ly/1kAVCu

The Punch‏@ThePunchHQ
The ADF don't want a Royal Commission, but they'll find it hard to head it off at the pass now, says Laurie Oakes: www.thepunch.com.au/.../

6/16/2012: FRONT PAGE: Slipper: Labor hits back
THE federal government has accused former aides of Peter Slipper, a News Ltd journalist, the former Howard government minister Mal Brough and other senior Queensland Coalition identities of formulating a sexual harassment claim with the aim of..
. www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx

Run Spud Run‏@SpudBenBean
Maybe @ABCNews24's tech problems are caused by someone flicking a switch when the heat turns up on their LIB masters. #ABCNews24 #ABCfail

George Bludger‏@GeorgeBludger
Even AFR today has “Ashby out to get Labor” on front page. All going pear shaped for the Libs

Chris Barrett‏@selga55Miles to go on this issue yet hey #stevelewis ? Slipper: Labor hits back www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120615-20feq.html via @brisbanetimes

Lyn

June 16. 2012 12:13 PM

Psyclaw


Michael

Thanks for the PVO article.

But we must read coalition shills such as PVO always with suspicion.

They never tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. There is always an ulterior motive.

Look at this bit in reference to Ian McFarlane:

As Malcolm Turnbull's right-hand man trying to do a deal on the passing of the emissions trading scheme

Lie! McFarlane and Penny Wong did the deal.

Psyclaw

June 16. 2012 12:58 PM

Tom of Melbourne

All the discussion about Kathy Jackson here is really very entertaining.

It’s become “Jackson, Jackson, Jackson”, instead of “Abbott, Abbott, Abbott”, added with a little wishful thinking that Thomson has not done anything wrong.

It’s funny and odd for what pretends to be a blog that promotes serious political discussion.

•  There are no findings against Jackson, and exactly what is the allegation against her? There are almost 200 findings against Thomson, and so far he’s resolved ONE.
•  Jackson is a union official, and was paid by union members. They can deal with her. Thomson is an MP, paid by us. We’re entitled to expect high standards of ethics, he has “crossed a line”.
•  Jackson is impugned on the basis of her personal relationship with Lawler (though) there doesn’t seem to be anything against him either.
•  But Gillard’s relationship with a crooked union official she acted for (she set up the funds her lover defrauded) is just airbrushed out of her history.
•  Gillard found that Thomson wasn’t suitable to remain in the caucus or the ALP. She made a judgement, but somehow the rest of us aren’t entitled to do that.

Throwing mud at Jackson doesn’t do anything to address the weight of evidence against Thomson.

Tom of Melbourne

June 16. 2012 12:59 PM

Michael

Psyclaw, hi.

I reckon PvO's article will prove to be just one element of the 'interested parties' mischievous manouevring that is step by step unfolding to remove Tony Abbott from the Coalition leadership.

The jigsaw is in many parts right now, but just as metal filings are inexorably pulled towards a magnet, those parts will "click" into place very soon.

The full picture revealed then will NOT have TA front and centre of the 'refreshed' Coalition Shadow Cabinet.

Michael

June 16. 2012 01:45 PM

TalkTurkey

PANIC!

Gee the tide has turned suddenly. There's positive reasons running for us now, and negative ones running against the Abborttians. (Why does nobody else call them Abborttians I wonder btw?) And better still, both the positives for, and the negatives against, are burgeoning, Oh what joy, and do you see, all according to the plan that *J*U*L*I*A* and her cabinet have adhered to all along, basically, create sane policy and pass the important legislation, deliver on promises, and save the real war until everything is in place. And that is now. What fun.  

TalkTurkey

June 16. 2012 01:46 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
The Twitterverse and even the MSM is smelling another Grech affair with the Slipper/Ashby/Brough/Lewis/Pyne etc affair.  Once the media are onto it, especially Fairfax which would love to embarrass News Limited's Steve Lewis and his outfit, watch the sparks fly!

Ad astra

June 16. 2012 02:11 PM

42 long

Those with the weakest case ( and the most to hide) are the ones who are afraid of what will be revealed with time.
    Provided the truth comes out (as it is starting to) we don't have to do much.
   When you appear to  have an open and shut case presented, look for a set-up.. Specially with headline grabbing "spicy bits" for the closet voyeurs.

42 long

June 16. 2012 02:19 PM

Jason

ToM,
   If The "weight" of evidence is so overwhelming against Thomson, Why hasn't he been charged with anything?
I don't care what FWA found they aren't the DPP.

As for Jackson she only gets mentioned because of her wacky behavior in court where she is trying to stop her branch of the union being put into administration!
Do you have a better reason as to why it shouldn't be talked about other than you're own ignorance to why she is in court?

If this is sending you crazy wait till we start on Brough, Lewis and Ashby etal, that unlike Thomson is before the courts.







Jason

June 16. 2012 03:06 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Jason, lots of people have reflected on Jackson's relationship with Lawler. What has he actually done? Are we entitled to judge Jackson by Lawler?

On the other hand, Gillard was a lawyer for the AWU, and she set up AWU trust funds on the instructions of the man she lived with. He stole from those funds. But Gillard sin't sullied by this.

If it's good enough for Jackson to be judged on her relationship with a man, why not Gillard?

Tom of Melbourne

June 16. 2012 03:16 PM

Psyclaw


ToM

What an ignoramus you are. This is not an ad hominem statement. It is a literal fact based on the crap you write.

Please do bother to read paragraphs 1, 2, 10, 11, 12 of my post at 9.49am this morning. There you will get at least an inkling of why KJ is a worthy target.

BTW ToM, I'm still waiting for you to tell us what piece of reform legislation was embraced by the electorate.

Four days so far and not a peep out of you.

Don't be shy now. Or is it that you made it up as usual!!!!!!!!!

Psyclaw

June 16. 2012 03:22 PM

42 long

ToM If someone sold a car to a friend/lover/associate and the car was subsequently used for a crime would that someone be an accessory?
  It's a little different when you intervene where you have no business being. and other actions, to influence outcomes.
    (But you won't see that because you have selective perception and you have a job to do here, don't you) so I have difficulty working out why I am replying)  Others might read it I suppose.
   You are onky here to do mischief and you are as low as the people you champion.

42 long

June 16. 2012 03:32 PM

BSA Bob

Interesting PVO article about the need for Abbott to "recalibrate his lineup". Typical coalition football coach  attitude. Isn't Abbott on record as saying this is the team he'll take to the election? Here's PVO advising Abbott to do a backflip & telling him in advance that it'll be forgiven, even praised. And if he does it immediately after winning an election he'll be forgiven that too. Meanwhile anything,anything at all is enough for another round of "Labor in turmoil" speculation.

BSA Bob

June 16. 2012 03:37 PM

Psyclaw

ToM

When you reply to 42long could you please tell us what piece of reform legislation was embraced by the electorate.

Still waiting, brave soldier!!!!! Brave pussycat !!!!

Psyclaw

June 16. 2012 03:45 PM

DoodlePoodle

Interesting stuff with the two MP investigations falling in a heap.  From before CT made his statement I thought I was one of the few that actually believed he was set up.  Having been through a similar case with someone who was totally exonerated I know how low people will stoop to satisfy their own ends.  By the way I was probably among the few who believed in Lindy C from the beginning.  

I feel sorry for TOM who wants to be part of this blog but "can't see the forest for the trees" - none so blind as he who doesn't want to see!! Lots of heartache ahead for you Tom.

DoodlePoodle

June 16. 2012 04:48 PM

TalkTurkey

BSA Bob!
Is this a BSA 250 Side-Valve I see before me,
Its kick-start lever towards my foot? Smile

TalkTurkey

June 16. 2012 04:52 PM

42 long

It's an M20 500 cc sidevalve. BSA Bob can confirm that. probably about 1940

42 long

June 16. 2012 05:16 PM

BSA Bob

BSA Bob's stunning new gravatar.
42 long is on the money, a 1941 WM20, made for the British & Dominion armies & sold off in their thousands after WW2. This one's been stroked to 600cc.
Thanks for the comments TT &42.

BSA Bob

June 16. 2012 05:36 PM

Tom of Melbourne

” I feel sorry for TOM who wants to be part of this blog but "can't see the forest for the trees"

No need to be concerned, I have no wish to be part of this blog, Ad Astra has implored people on several occasions not to exchange opinion with me. I’m under no illusion about how welcome my contribution is.
-------------------------
” what piece of reform legislation was embraced by the electorate.’

Just a few examples of reforms that can be enacted when there is an honest government that has the support of the electorate-
•  Floating the dollar
•  Deregulation of the banking and financial system
•  Medicare
•  Petroleum Resource Rent Tax
•  Enterprise Bargaining and IR Reform

Get over it, the current government has a poor record of reform, because it lost the trust of the public.
-------------------------
” ToM If someone sold a car to a friend/lover/associate and the car was subsequently used for a crime would that someone be an accessory?’

I’m not sure I follow any analogy here.

Gillard had a live in lover who was also her client. Her lover/client defrauded the union using the documentation Gillard had set up.

Notice any conflict of interest or poor judgment here?

Exactly what is the equivalent accusation against Jackson?
--------------------
On the other hand, somehow many here think that by talking about Jackson, they diminish the actions of Thomson, but really don’t bother to explain how.

Tom of Melbourne

June 16. 2012 06:22 PM

Psyclaw



ToM

Every trick in he book!  Like the true scaredy cat conservo you are.

The key word is embraced.

None of your examples fit the bill.

You need to put up Tom, or forever shut up! You can't go on spreading crap here any more. We're well on to you.

Floating the dollar is still not embraced, 20 years after.

Neither is the banking system. You don't have to look too far to find many who say "they should never have sold the Commonwealth" or to find those who say that deregulation favours only the top management of banks.

Medicare is obviously a red herring. People always embrace  when the change is giving to them.

PRRT effected the general electorate to a nil degree. Not hard to get people to accept change that don't effect them.

Enterprise bargaining came and went. Are you really saying that you conservos embraced it. Fair suck of the saveloy!

And you have the audacity to give "IR Reform" as an example of an embraced reform. Like Work Choices.!!!!!!!

Still waiting ToM. What piece of reform legislation was embraced by the electorate.

Psyclaw

June 16. 2012 06:23 PM

Psyclaw

Last post Line 1 "every trick in the book"

Psyclaw

June 16. 2012 06:24 PM

Jason

ToM,
   I'll ask again what has Thomson been charged with?
Yes FWA made findings and the DPP is yet (if ever) to lay charges!
Just because you bang on about his guilt doesn't make it so!

As to the union official, the last person (Glen Milne) who unlike you was willing to put their name to such bullshit was sacked from News Ltd and the PM was issued an apology because it was so defamatory! Yet you come on here and try and pretend otherwise!







Jason

June 16. 2012 06:36 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Jason, I’ll provide a direct analogy.

If the Liberals preselected a used car salesman, and  the Department of  Consumer Affairs found almost 200 complaints against him were legitimate, but they didn’t prosecute him, I’d say he also has no place in parliament.

What about you? Would you argue that he should be in parliament because he has not been convicted?

Thomson has not provided a comprehensive response, he has changed his public story several time, and FWA took 3 years to establish almost 200 adverse findings.
----------------------
As for the Gillard/lawyer/lover/union crook issue, everything I’ve posted was put on the record during an interview Gillard did in 2007.  Some reporters may have tried to write some new stuff, I have no idea what it was about.

Tom of Melbourne

June 16. 2012 06:39 PM

Trevor

With reference to the CT & Slipper cases, which appear to be proceeding along predicable lines.  IE there is significant prima facie evidence of manipultion by the liberals.  I am holding my breath for the day when Fran starts the day with "sensational developments in the  case overnight with police raids on the offices of xxx. Police won't comment on the raid but there is speculation of a link between emails from senator Abetz and xxx  which show senior liberals were involved with advising how the case should be handled".  There will then be door stop interviews with Pyne et al who, looking wide eyed with fright, say they have no comment on the allegations and they don't know who xxx is.  

Sounds fanciful but remember this is the party who ran Godwin.  I am sure they were hoping it would all be done with by now and an election held.  The longer it draws out the more chance there is of the smoking gun being found. The image of Malcom holding his head in his hands after receiving the advice will be replaced by Tony staring blankly into space without uttering a word for quite some time, only the sound of large gears grinding away in his head will be heard.   The product of the extended contemplation and grinding of gears will most likely be "ahhh, ahhh ahhhh ahhh". Followed by the image of his back as he flees into the building. With any luck, that will be the last we see of that blight on our governance.  

Trevor

June 16. 2012 06:58 PM

2353

Is that the same FWA that has a Vice President in a personal relationship with the accuser of Thomson?  See the problem here - it's as biased as Channel 9's commentry during sporting events?

2353

June 16. 2012 07:51 PM

DMW

ToM
It is fortunate that you chose these words:
Just a few examples of reforms that can be enacted when there is an honest government that has the support of the electorate-

We could argue of the meaning of 'embraced' for quite a while and agree to disagree (possibly?) however I suggest that presenting a reform as a proposed policy would be the first step in hoping the electorate would 'embrace' the policy.

Persons with better memories than mine may prove me wrong but I cannot recall that the electorate were ever informed that the floating of the currency was on the agenda. Although I recall some discussion of the possibility of deregulation of the banking and financial systems again I dont recall it being part of the policies presented to the electorate.

The electorate 'embraced' these reforms simply because they had no choice. They were done and dusted. As Psyclaw rightly points out there are many in the electorate who either still believe, or, have come to the opinion that these reforms were not in the interests of the we lowly punters.

Psyclaw,
PRRT (a)ffected the general electorate to a nil degree.

Not sure that is absolutely accurate.

I would need to delve into archives but I recall some sort of trade off when introducing the PRRT around pegging the price of local crude to international parity pricing. Parity pricing had the effect of keeping the price of petrol up which is surely more than nil.

Again I will bow to those with better memories (and research skills) than mine but I suspect the PRRT did have more of an effect on our hip pockets than we were informed of at the time.

DMW

June 16. 2012 08:23 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I have just posted Australia is 'The Sweet Spot' to be.  It is based on Peter Hartcher's book: The Sweet Spot - How Australia made its own luck- and could now throw it all away. Enjoy.

http://www.thepoliticalsword.com

Ad astra

June 16. 2012 09:11 PM

42 long

  Australian values have changed towards assessing your worth or success by what money you have or how conspicuously wealthy your lifestyle is.. We are a 'consumerist" society buying many things that we do not need at all. Our houses are bigger on average than anyplace on earth.
Every bit of social research indicates that these things do not bring "happiness" or contentment. Why have our aims been so "tacky" or shallow.
  We reject the british "class" system by and large, but has the lust for money taken it's place. Abbot seems to regard the poorer as a burden, and only in that condition, because they are lazy or inferior. Services to the poorer are being slashed in all the atates that have the "new" anti-labour governments.
   There might be a good trade in banners'
   COME BACK (insert past premiers name here). ALL is forgiven..
   In the lead up to the next election the attitude of the conservative state governments will be taken into account by voters in Labour's favour Federally. Also Australia has a dread if giving both houses to the one side of Politics.
  There is no guarantee that the next election will not produce the same kind of parliament as we have now.
  People don't vote to put in a hung parliament They vote for candidates and when the numbers are added up  you have whatever you have, Tony. That's democracy and YOU can't handle it, mate.

42 long

June 16. 2012 10:17 PM

jane

Lyn,lovely links and twitterverse as always. Thank you for all that hard graft. I'm working my way through each delicious one.

I'm still banished to the office to read TPS, but have been advised by the computer dude that the patient is fighting fit and ready for collection Monday. All for the princely sum of $50!  

Patricia, thanks for the background info on Christian Porter and of course the excellent pome.

2353 @7.51pm 15/6, Campbell Newman is the spawn of the vile Jocelyn Newman, so his behaviour comes as no surprise.

Cuppa @1.0pm, perfect pome for Liars Party Losers! Smile

TT, the great unravelling is unfolding before our eyes and it is a beautiful thing to behold!

I wonder how long the "brave whistleblower" will have access to pro bono high powered HRN barristers' experience and advice? Not long, I suspect.

This prize, who along with James Ashby, was to be Liealot's gate pass into the Lodge, is rapidly turning into a rotting albatross around scrawny Liars' necks!

Long may they carry the stigma of being the most inept, bumbling, disaster prone, incompetent plotters in the history of plotters!

Guy Fawkes and the gunpowder plotters have been toppled from poll position as hopeless plotters to be repalced with this bunch of rejects.

Do you think that instead of burning Guys on bonfire night, we should burn Prissys or Broughs? Perhaps rename it Liars' Night or some such?

After the debacle of the Grech affair, what possessed these clowns to think they could even organise a p*ss up in a brewery, let alone pull a double whammy master stroke like the Thomson/Slipper scam?

Debacle, debacle debacle-what a wonderful word! Surely invented as a descriptor for the Liars Party and all who sail in her. roflmao!

No wonder Liealot is skulking in the underbrush, wild eyed and bereft of slogans. What would be an apt slogan for this little lot, I wonder?

ToM, stop being a twat. Bruce Wilson was not charged or convicted of defrauding the AWA.

Gillard never lived with him, nor did he buy her a house, or renovate the house she owned, with embezzled funds.

You'll have to stop relying on Dolt, Anal and the shock jock cabal for your factoids.

Trevor @6.39pm, absolutely spot on. Couldn't agree more.  

jane

June 16. 2012 10:57 PM

Jason

ToM,
   What if the Labor party pre selected a city council parking inspector? who no doubt had more than 200 complaints against him should he be allowed to be an MP?

Jason

June 16. 2012 11:34 PM

Tom of Melbourne

” Gillard never lived with him, nor did he buy her a house, or renovate the house she owned, with embezzled funds.”

So, where did I say any of that? She set up the funds that he used to embezzle the funds from the AWU, and Gillard says that herself.

So despite Gillard’s history of relationships we’re not to judge her by them. But you and others are willing to judge Jackson on her relationships.

Why is that? What is it exactly that she has done that demonstrates that Thomson didn’t do what FWA found?

Tom of Melbourne

June 16. 2012 11:43 PM

Jason

ToM,
   Apart from your interest of being outraged on other peoples behalf, what's your stake in Jackson? you seem to have an unhealthy interest in protecting her at all cost.
WHY?

Jason

June 17. 2012 11:53 PM

Truth Seeker

Tom, you are quick to defend KJ and declare that she has a right to a presumption of innocence, but then condemn CT, denying him the same presumption.
He HAS NOT been charged with anything despite numerous investigations, and with your beloved KJ becoming more of a liability by the minute, ti is less and less likely that he will be charged.
If you are interested in the truth as opposed to the lies, innuendo and misinformation being banded around by the MSM and the right wing hacks (who over the last week have become conspicuously quiet), you should read Peter Wicks' articles on the HSU on Independent Australia.
You may then understand why KJ is no longer a credible witness.

Truth Seeker

June 18. 2012 11:46 AM

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Truth Seeker
Welcome to The Political Sword family.  Do come again.

Thank you for your comment.  I agree that Peter Wicks' site is a goldmine of information.

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