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Journalists awake! You know Tony Abbott is conning you

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Monday, 13 August 2012 16:58 by Ad astra
Do you sense that ‘The Great Awakening’ has begun? For countless months we have read innumerable stories of doom and gloom about Labor’s prospects, endless stories of threats to Julia Gillard’s leadership, a ‘Ruddstoration’ just around the corner, deadlines for the polls to improve or else, and a ‘when, not if’ prospect for a change of leadership. Projections of electoral wipeout based on current polls, with loss of most if not all seats in some States, have filled political columns. ‘The people have stopped listening’ the pundits have said, a supposition presumably based on poll results, as there hasn’t been a poll on ‘listening’. Every new poll, until the last Newspoll, has been tagged as yet another disaster for Labor, another nail in its coffin. Everything is gloom writ large.

But this last couple of weeks has been a little different. The doomster columnists seem to have ever so subtly changed their tune. It might of course be just our imagination, or the wishful thinking of Labor supporters, and it might be evanescent, but there is an unmistakable change.

Tim Dunlop set the scene in his piece If Tony Abbott didn't exist, the media would have to invent him on The Drum Opinion on 9 August. He began by exposing the lameness of Laurie Oakes who pronounced: "Abbott is doing what Opposition leaders almost always do...But he stands out because he is better at it than most." Full marks to Abbott for being an obstructionist, negative, inveterate liar, with no concern for the common good, Laurie.

Then Dunlop got stuck into Phil Coorey, where in his 30 July SMH piece PM fixes stalemate but funding battle will be Abbott's, Coorey makes this comment relating to the NDIS: “...Abbott is the odds-on favourite to win the next election and needs to give it more serious consideration. He has pledged full support for the NDIS and says he will adhere to the commission's plan. This means he will fund it from general revenue and does not rule out a tax increase or massive spending cuts to find the money. On Friday, when asked, he pointedly and wisely declined to address this specific question.”

Dunlop rightly castigates Coorey: “Mr Abbott is not being judged on his ability to run a government, but on his ability to manipulate the media coverage by refusing to address a central question about a major policy.”

Listen though to Phil Coorey talking in a video clip on an article by Michelle Grattan, and you will hear a much more sombre Coorey, acknowledging that maybe things are turning around for PM Gillard and her Government. He may be at the beginning of his Great Awakening.

Dunlop then tackles Lenore Taylor for her 3 August article in the SMH One fight the Coalition will shy away from, an article about Abbott’s response to the independent panel’s review of Fair Work Australia for “tacitly accepting Tony Abbott's attempt to sidestep the matter”. Taylor says: “…the Coalition does not want an election fight on industrial relations. It won't engage”, as if that were a reasonable response, not to be challenged, certainly not by her. Dunlop says: “How does this happen? Isn't the role of the media precisely to make the Opposition - the alternative government - "engage", not just wave them through unchallenged?”

Dunlop concludes: “Tony Abbott is playing the media for fools, dishing up the sort of content that he knows they find, in their weakened state, impossible to decline. By accepting it uncritically, they have created a positive feedback loop where he and the media now feed off each other.”

Hallelujah for a forthright journalist who is prepared not to pull any punches over his colleagues’ obsequiousness.

Dunlop’s message is clear: Abbott is playing the media for fools, and they are falling for it hook, line and sinker. I can’t believe that they are too stupid to see what Abbott is doing to them; the only other explanation is that they are complicit. Why? Instructions from above? Job insecurity? Or wanting to keep onside with the one they consider a certain winner in 2013?

There are still a few journalists that write their columns in accord with the actual facts, rather than the ‘facts’ they would prefer, most from Fairfax. Ross Gittins and Peter Martin keep us up with facts economic and base their opinions accordingly. Laura Tingle, from the same Fairfax stable is another. Does her article on 9 August: Abbott struggles to find form as the game shifts, herald a change of tone in political commentary?

She begins: “Over-investment in electricity infrastructure, and a failure in the regulation of power prices which was financing it, was a “fabrication”, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott told us yesterday…Well Tony, on this occasion, you should probably believe the Prime Minister because she is saying the same thing as your own resources spokesman; because conservative state premiers have also been raising the problem; and because the problem is set out in great detail in the reports of energy regulators. But, more importantly, you should probably believe it because, like a range of other policy issues facing the present government, it is more than likely going to be your problem in about 10 months’ time, and it is time you started saying what you would do about it.” Tingle is saying it the way it is.

She goes on: “But like a couple of other outings in the past fortnight, the Opposition Leader has seemed at a loss about how to proceed when venturing into territory beyond the carbon tax”, and cites his Beijing address and his proposed amendments to the Racial Discrimination Act to protect Andrew Bolt. She comments: “The clunky way Abbott has started to move into new policy areas as the carbon tax caravan has started to move on has surprised MPs on both sides of the political divide, who are used to the stunningly effective way he has pursued the government over the carbon tax. There has long been a fear in Coalition ranks that behind the ruthless effectiveness of the “stop the tax, stop the boats” Abbott attack, there may lurk a more chaotic machine in which the Coalition’s policy positions remain chaotic.”

And later: “The shakiness of Abbott’s performance in the past couple of weeks when he has had to deal with issues other than the carbon tax has been particularly notable in a week when the Prime Minister has returned from holidays on the front foot, dusting up the states over the surge in electricity prices over the past four or five years.”

But then Laura has always been reasonable and balanced. She knows that the would-be Prime Minister has been conning journalists all along, and that it’s time for an awakening.

Tim Colebatch, another balanced writer for Fairfax, in his 9 August piece in The Age Carbon tax in soft landing begins: “The federal opposition's scare campaign against the carbon tax has failed its first test. The Bureau of Statistics reports that seasonally adjusted employment rose by 14,000 in July - the month the tax took effect - while unemployment fell to 5.2 per cent. For the government, it was a double bonus after the TD Securities-Melbourne Institute monthly inflation gauge reported on Monday that inflation rose just 0.2 per cent in July, and was flat over the past three months. While this was only the first test of the carbon tax, if the duo of rising employment and low inflation continues, it could have huge political implications - undermining Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's repeated claim that the carbon tax would be ''like a wrecking ball through our economy''.”

Later he says: “With the election not due for another year or more, the real test of the tax's impact on jobs and inflation lies ahead. But if the economy thrives over the coming year despite the tax - as most forecasters expect - it could become the political ''game-changer'' Labor is hoping for, discrediting the Coalition and its leader.”

Colebatch senses the game is up for Abbott, and that conning the public with his pumped up rhetoric about an imagined carbon tax disaster is at an end. Journalists had better realize this too, or they will look as stupid as Abbott will.

A 9 August editorial in The Age Gillard at least deserves a tick for the economy begins: “What must a government, even one losing the battle for hearts and minds, do to scrape a pass mark for economic management? On any objective assessment, Australia's economy is a gold medal performer. Yet Opposition Leader Tony Abbott routinely condemns ''the worst government in Australia's history''. Coalition Treasury spokesman Joe Hockey, faced with strong growth data, retorted: ''Imagine how well our country could do if we had a good government.''

The editorial concludes: “The Westpac-Melbourne Institute index of consumer confidence reveals a disconnect between such facts and public opinion. Labor voters score 124 and Coalition voters a gloomy 79. The disparity belies their access to the same economic facts. So vital is consumer confidence that all responsible political leaders must be wary of ''talking down'' the economy. Whatever the sins of Julia Gillard and her government, gross economic mismanagement is not one of them.”

Again, even the editorial acknowledges that what Abbott and Hockey are saying about the economy and the Gillard Government’s management of it, are blatant lies, that they are conning the public and the press.

Now turn to Lenore Taylor’s piece in the SMH: Coalition split over energy price rises. Although the headline suggests she is onto a real exposé, her article is just very ordinary, uncritical ‘he said, she said’ journalism with not one word of criticism of Abbott for his ‘fabrication’ pronouncement. It is only when the video is played that you hear her say that his position ‘is not really a credible proposition’. Why does she not write this and call Abbott’s words as bald-faced lies at variance even with his own front bench? Here again we have a senior journalist not willing to criticise in writing a possible future PM, although she concedes in the video that his position is not credible.

Writing on 9 August in the SMH on Abbott’s address to the IPA about free speech and press freedom, and Abbott’s promise to repeal section 18c of the Racial Discrimination Act, the one that tripped up Andrew Bolt, in his article Free speech debate is coloured by hypocrisy, Richard Ackland concludes: “Abbott's clunky speech did not finesse the boundaries. His attack on the government's deliberations on the convergence review and the Finkelstein proposals for a News Media Council to patrol journalistic standards shows that he is quite content with the idea that a self-regulated regime, with one company straddling like a colossus the print and pay TV business in this country, is a great way to protect free speech. But then, freedom of speech is a freedom to sprout spurious notions.”

Not much of a pat on the back for Abbott there.

What about Fairfax’s grande dame? Writing in The Age on 10 August in Gillard set to spring into action after a winter of discontent, Michelle Grattan begins: “Julia Gillard will go into next week's spring parliamentary session confident the worst of the carbon nightmare is behind her and that she can turn the debate towards Labor's positive agenda. With Newspoll showing the ALP's primary vote improving five points to 33 per cent and Kevin Rudd apparently well short of the numbers to replace her, the Prime Minister has declared that, against all odds, she can bounce back from the abysmal polls to win next year's election.”

Later she says: “She will use the initial parliamentary week to turn up the heat on Opposition Leader Tony Abbott on issues ranging from boats to electricity prices.” And: “The carbon tax's first six weeks have encouraged her. There are already some early indications that people are starting to see through the incredible wild scare campaign that has been run about carbon pricing.” She concludes: “As always, in whatever adversity, Gillard is disciplined, never publicly showing a hint of weakness or self-doubt.”

Grattan’s article is based on an interview and is very much ‘she said, he said’, but at least she refrains from acerbic comment.

What does News Limited have to say? Let’s not assume that they are in for ‘The Great Awakening’. Peter van Onselen, so fond of pouring scorn in our PM, has a crack at commentary on 11 August in Gillard’s new shock tactics. Amidst dispensing his wisdom he takes a few sideswipes.

He begins: “For so long unable to wedge Abbott in a direct confrontation with the federal Opposition Leader, Gillard is now using the states as a proxy battleground to cause internal divisions within the Coalition. They are an easier target because they are less united than the federal opposition, which has remained remarkably disciplined in recent times. Each conservative state premier has his own agenda, as well as his own political circumstances to deal with.” So PvO gives her a small tick for smart strategy.

Later on, and unable to resist a backhander he says: “And is the public still listening to her anyway? As the clock ticks towards the next election, Gillard’s strategy is becoming more audacious. Attacking others for electricity price increases certainly fits that formula. It is a head-on response to Abbott’s claims that the carbon tax is responsible for cost of-living pressures associated with energy price rises across the board, and it is reminiscent of the approach Mark Textor used to advise John Howard to adopt when he was confronted with politically difficult issues.”

Later still: “Gillard supporters say the past few weeks are a perfect illustration of exactly what they said would happen once the carbon tax came into effect. The debate would move on, and the polls would improve. They have always said a full-term Gillard government would look far more effective than a mid-term minority parliament.”

So here we have a tiny concession from a News Limited journalist that our PM has, or might just be doing something smart.

We have to go to the 11 August edition of the Courier Mail for the most robust News Limited statement in It's game on for Gillard holding the deck, says Dennis Atkins He begins with: “At the end of the six-week winter break, the political positioning of the two main combatants has moved even if next year's election remains very much the Coalition's to lose.”

After almost dismissing the prospect of a Rudd return, Atkins goes on to discuss the issues, and has this to say: “Gillard returns to Parliament with two major political negatives, carbon and asylum seekers.

“On carbon, Gillard will face an unabashed continuation of Tony Abbott's relentless negative assault on the price impacts of the scheme, especially during its tax phase. Abbott proved in recent days he will not shy away from any untruth in his campaign to brand Gillard an untrustworthy liar. It is the most reckless and audacious politicking most observers including this one can remember.

“Whether Abbott makes a lie out of employment numbers by conflating June and July results or blames Gillard for an electricity pricing regime set up by the Howard Cabinet of which he was a member, the Liberal leader is taking the demeaning tactic of not caring what he says to new depths.”


Have you ever read a more damning comment about Abbott from a News Limited journalist? Will Atkins be the one to lead a rethink among his colleagues?

What about the ABC? Last week the acerbic Sabra Lane, who has made an art form of pouring acid over our PM, surprisingly poured some on Tony Abbott in an interview about electricity prices on AM on 9 August. You can hear it here.

The 12 August Insiders echoed the view that Julia Gillard was on the front foot about electricity prices, even although that entailed a risk. It was a balanced discussion; if you missed it, it is here. George Megalogenis offered the view that this was Tony Abbott’s second worst week, after the week where he did a ‘run rabbit run’ for the exit in parliament. He also confirmed his disdain for the widespread preoccupation with polls, and remains on a ‘poll strike’. He did point out though how quickly polls can change as they did in the Hewson-Keating contest when Kennett became premier in Victoria and the voters saw a Hewson-Kennett axis emerging, just as they now see an up-and-coming Abbott-Newman alignment.

Finally let’s see what Andrew Elder has to say in The Price of Power.

“Tony Abbott can't be Prime Minister because he hasn't made the case that he'd do that job better than Julia Gillard is doing it. In recent weeks we have seen Abbott flick the switch that should have displayed the power he has at his command - the power he would exercise on our behalf, if only we vote in the way that the empty refractions known as polls might indicate.” Later Elder labels Abbott: “…a Johnny one-note who can't change his mind and therefore can't change anyone's nor anything else either.”

He reminds us of Abbott’s mistake: “Talking up "the carbon tax" rebounded on him when the sky failed to fall on poor Whyalla and the debate shifted to other factors driving up electricity prices - other factors about which Abbott has nothing to say, nothing to contribute.”

Talking about the MSM, Elder says: “It was understandable that they should give him the benefit of the doubt but now the press gallery embarrass themselves when they simply take him at face value. I talk a lot about the politico-media complex but increasingly, if nobody listens to Abbott on the big issues at the crucial moments, eventually journalists have to stop taking him seriously.”

That is what this piece is about. Abbott has been conning journalists, and there is an urgent need for them to wake up, and stop taking him seriously.

Finally Elder says: “Abbott is committing the worst offence possible against the modern media - providing dull copy - without the gravitas and seriousness of considering the future of the nation and preparing for government.”

I trust that what has been presented in this piece has given credence to the view that at least some of the MSM are waking up to the fact that Abbott has been conning them all along, and that they have been sucked in. Some are beginning to realize that unless they begin to tell the public about Abbott’s deception, disingenuousness, and his lies, their credibility will suffer and eventually be destroyed, something they can hardly countenance professionally. They have to tell it the way it is.

Journalists have to accept that Abbott is no better than a Duracell Bunny, who is fitted each morning with new batteries, and who goes out thumping his tub, the same tub he always thumps. He has nothing else to thump about but the carbon tax, the minerals tax, the boats, the ‘worst government in history’, the awful PM, Ju-liar. They have been conned by him for years, listening uncritically to his tub-thumping, repeating his words without question, never challenging his thumping, believing that he is the chosen Bunny because the polls say so, diminishing their journalistic reputation with every sycophantic piece they write. Well folks, The Great Awakening is upon them.

Journalists who simply echo the tub thumping of the Bunny, the Bunny they have never challenged, the Bunny who has conned them all this time, will go down with him as his batteries corrode, splutter and go flat.




What do you think?

Comments (358) -

August 13. 2012 05:22 PM

DoodlePoodle

Great Article.  Positive reporting would be such a welcome change - let the good times roll!!

DoodlePoodle

August 13. 2012 05:27 PM

MWS

Tony Abbott use a tactic that Karl Rove used very successfully against both John McCain and John Kerry. George W Bush had no war record (and was AWOL from the Texas Air Guard), but instead of avoiding the subject, Rove attacked the opposition on their "strength."  He claimed McCain was unbalanced as a consequence of being a POW, and claimed Kerry's medals were undeserved (the "Swift boats for Truth" campaign). Somehow, attacking your opponent inoculates your candidate on the same issue.

Abbott is doing the same - he lies regularly, but claims that Julia Gillard is the liar.  Apparently if you can point to another "lie," then your lie doesn't count.

This isn't just "projection" - claiming that another has the exact fault that you do.  It seems that by getting the accusation out first, you can't be accused of the same thing.

MWS

August 13. 2012 05:39 PM

Ad astra

DoodlePoodle
Thank you for your kind comment.  We would all love to see truthful reporting.

MWS
If you haven’t been here before, welcome to The Political Sword.  Do come again.

Your comment is germane.  It is an old trick to project one’s own failings onto others to escape scrutiny.  As you say, George Bush and Karl Rove used it successfully against John McCain.  If we had even half a decent media, it would be onto this exposing this malevolent strategy.

Ad astra

August 13. 2012 05:58 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I’ll be out this evening.  I’ll be back tomorrow.

Ad astra

August 13. 2012 06:03 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Yet another policy u-turn on asylum seekers.

Does that make 6 or 7? Will the latest one be the solution? Or will we get another?

Credibility=ZERO

The ALP is an absolute disgrace on this issue.

Tom of Melbourne

August 13. 2012 06:13 PM

Psyclaw


Plenty of mistruths being served up by the Colonition and others, especially Morriscum.... "they recommended the Opposition policy."

What rubbish.

Morriscum has bleated about his "suite" of actions over and over ..... Nauru, TPVs, turn-the-boats-back.

Even this morning he said that they would not support Houston unless the three components were recommended.

Well! No TPVs, and can't turn the boats back. Overarching this aspect is Recommendation 4.... cooperate with Indonesia. It did not say "create an international crisis with Indonesia" as Morriscum had intended.

And where in the Colonition's policy is "cooperate with Malaysia" (No 5),  "develop the Malaysia solution further" (No 10), "restrict family reunions for boat arrival ASs" (Nos 11, 12), "review the current assessment process" (No 15), and "improve processes for sending back rejectees" (No 16).

But most conspicuous by its absence in the Colonition's policy is Recommendation !No 1 ...... especially "an integrated regional process and regional cooperation"

As JG rightly said, these recommendations represent the policy of no party, there are no winners and losers, everyone has to compromise, there are bits and pieces form everyone's policy.

The PM also said that relevant legislation would be put up this week. So big mouth Morriscum will just have to vote for it all, or back down from his silly claim that Houston recommends his policy.

Psyclaw

August 13. 2012 06:23 PM

Jason

ToM you're an absolute disgrace for not even being bothered to vote! You didn't want your voice heard back in 2010, so why do you think we should have to put up with your rantings hear?

You dealt yourself out of any debate for the life of this government and if and when you choose to vote feel free to comment.



Jason

August 13. 2012 06:34 PM

Tom of Melbourne

“there are no winners and losers”

That’s an interesting way to describe a debacle that has resulted in 6 unsatisfactory policies in 5 years.

Jason, I'm proud of my record in voting inflrmal.

Tom of Melbourne

August 13. 2012 06:47 PM

2353

AA - well researched and brilliantly put together article.  That it discusses what seems to be a real change in attitude helps as well.

For each reporter that writes an article such as the ones you have highlighted - others will decide the Opposition's agenda needs to be called to account as well and will add to the groundswell (groupthink in action???).

Jason - I'm with you, those that don't participate in the process don't have the right to protest the outcome.

2353

August 13. 2012 06:54 PM

jaycee

You're quick off the mark, ToM..is that why you choose the moniker ; ToM...always peeping through keyholes? But enough of adressing the rubbish..I can guess these policies will be put up and just as quickly shot down by the legal challenges they inevitably invite. Once it has been declared illegal, this asylum program AND the opposition will be silenced and then, perhaps, we can get on with finding and creating a REAL regional solution.

jaycee

August 13. 2012 06:56 PM

Tom of Melbourne

...and Gillard isn’t “conning” us?
•  “another boat, another policy failure”
•  On shore processing
•  East Timor
•  Malaysia
•  Nauru

...and that’s her history on a single area of policy.

Tom of Melbourne

August 13. 2012 06:59 PM

Jason

2353,
    For someone who claims to be "happy" with their decision to vote informal seems to to have a hell of a lot of complaints.
As I've said before ToM would have complained about having sex on his wedding night!

Jason

August 13. 2012 07:00 PM

2353

TfM - as you are demonstrably too thick to take notice of the comments above regarding your legitimacy, you don't have the right to comment as you choose not to participate in the process that elects our Government.

See you in 2014.

2353

August 13. 2012 07:01 PM

jaycee

Back onto Tony Abbott...A lark I used to play in the smoko sheds was to talk up a socialist idea in conversation and if anyone (most particularly a Liberal voter) riled against it I would accuse them of denying somebody free speech and close them of with asking them if THEY were a "commie pinko"!...I was the "pinko", but it shut them up every time!
Abbott uses the same principle with the "lie".

jaycee

August 13. 2012 07:03 PM

LadyInRed

Ad astra

Nice meta-analysis.

The one trick Tony has nothing else.

LadyInRed

August 13. 2012 07:07 PM

LadyInRed

ToM

I am trying to understand why anyone would waste their vote and then crow about it. Do you think that because you don't vote it gives you the right to sit on the fence and pontificate?

LadyInRed

August 13. 2012 07:46 PM

LadyInRed

I am quite frankly sick of the politicking around 7269 people who have arived so far in 2012.

Uhlmann on 7:30 trying hard to keep politiking, dragging up every single word that ever was said. Get over it, eveyone has to eat humble pie, Uhlmann wanting to see the humble pie swallowed by Bowen, vomitted up and then swallowed again.

Let's move on.....ooooh 87 people arived this afternoon. No-one looks good over this issue. Uhlmann should at least just recognise that.

LadyInRed

August 13. 2012 07:57 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Never voted Liberal, and decided that the ALP had entirely “lost its way”. I clash with the policies of this government simply because my orientation is progressive on social issues, and relatively conservative on economics.

It’s the opposite of the policy framework of this government.

Tom of Melbourne

August 13. 2012 08:06 PM

Psyclaw


Someone above linked the PM's statement about the contents of the Houston report )that the recommendations do not point out any winners or losers), to the past history of ASs.

This is why one has to be careful in discussions here.

Posters like that person have no hesitation in lying and creatively manufacturing scenarios to bend the truth ..... their dominant modus operandi.

They self delude that their manifest rubbish is so subtle that it will be absorbed by readers.

Not here.

Psyclaw

August 13. 2012 08:50 PM

Ad astra

2353
Many thanks for your complimentary remarks.  Like you, I’m hoping groupthink and group pressure will play its part in getting journalists simply to look at the facts, report them accurately, and challenge Abbott’s lies and deception.

LadyinRed
Thank you for your comment.  You are right – ‘meta-analysis’ is good descriptor.  I missed 7.30 tonight. Perhaps it was a good one to miss!

I’m calling it a day, and am off to watch Q&A.

Ad astra

August 13. 2012 08:58 PM

xiaoecho

I sincerely hope that it isn't a false dawn and the tide really is turning. The stakes are just too high to elect these extreme right wing idealogues into power. We are the richest country in the world or near to it, miles ahead of the United states on every indicator of a healthy society, yet the Liberals would have us slavishly drag ourselves down, and degrade our quality of life .....and for what? So that crumbs can trickle down? No government is going to be ideal but this never ending talking down of our highly peforming economy, the spread of propaganda, facilitated by a compliant media, that Gillards is the worst government in history and we are enduring hardship because if it is psychopathic - it is evident the Liberals are willing to sacrifice any and all priciple if that's what it takes to realise power. They have NO alternate vision of our country other than as a client state of the US. That the media have been in thrall, and unquestioning so so long is mystifying.  
I have been a reader of the Political Sword for a while but this is the first time I have been moved to comment.

xiaoecho

August 13. 2012 09:00 PM

MWS

Thanks for the welcome ad Astra.  I'm a regular lurker, but only comment if I feel I can make a contribution to the debate.

MWS

August 13. 2012 09:06 PM

Phil

and journalists wonder why their credibilily is down there with use car salesmen

Phil

August 13. 2012 09:21 PM

KHTAGH

AA
What a great read & so well researched & compiled. If only half the MSM had half your talent the polls would be so different I'm sure. So many new faces that have commented shows that you are right on the mark, I'm sure we will see another re-post on IA this week as well.

TfM
I'm sorry mate but I agree with others here , if you waste the only!! thing left within your total power [who you vote for] & you think you have a say, well I'm sorry to say you do not.
From now on any time I see your post I will not read them period as you have lost your chance to have a say at the ballot box, you have lost the right!! to have a say here too. If your too lazy to get off your arse to vote then you lose your say on all & any subject.

I used to be like you & not vote because I was in the Navy & didn't need to enroll or vote. At a party one night I was having a good political discussion & the subject came up that I didn't vote [after I left the RAN] & the same conclusion was drawn I didn't have a say. They were right I didn't & neither do you, I went out & enrolled the next day & I have a right! to have my say now. I use it & I'm proud of having my legitimatesay.

KHTAGH

August 14. 2012 12:15 AM

TalkTurkey

The Abborttians are crowing like victorious roosters, spinning the line that their own policies were the ones that Labor will implement . . .

ha ha ha . . .

but then the awful realization . . .

Oh hang on if that's our policy . . . errrrr . ... how do we OPPOSE it ???. . . . errrr, hmmmmm, ahhh, well erm,


What I said at noon today was wtte that the Report would be a game changer, that Labor would win the issue today, but it isn't an ordinary game, and it isn't about point scoring, it is about getting an outcome that will save lives and settle the issue. Labor hasn't really 'won' exactly, but boy haven't the Abborttians lost, and so have the Greens leaders, all that has to happen for Labor is that the issue has to die for Abbortt and *J*U*L*I*A* has so positioned him that he has stupidly stymied himself with his own stupidistymier!

It is an incredibly elegant gambit, few have yet realized it, the Abborttians have just started to realize how subtly she has sucked them in. In this nuanced chess game she has sacrificed a couple of pawns, and taken a knight a rook and several pawns, and now his King is exposed at last. Abbortt's Stop the Boats Stop the Tax Burn the Bitch Worst Government Ever attack strategy has failed abjectly, he has FAILED on EVERYTHING now (because they CAN'T avoid the Government AS-Legislation-to-be, and that is Labor's Grand Slam!)  Abbortt's discomfiture tomorrow will be a sight to behold, and gangrene is setting in apace. He won't last to Crispmess. Or if he does the LCP will be a rump after the next election. Like Black playing a chess game down to the King alone when Red has all main pieces still. It'sthat stark. Isn't it Ad!

I don't mind mixing me metaphors here. *J*U*L*I*A* would beat Abbortt at ANY game of strategy. Poker. Fencing. Pea and thimble. And you betcha, BOXING too!  

QT will be somethin' tomorrow Folks. Fire and brimstone. Pyne eh, don't we have some feeling he might have a vertically-slotted view of the world for a while pretty soon? I will welcome Peter Slipper's rightful return to the Speaker's chair soon too. Cantcha just hear the CLANG of the big iron doors behind Ashby soon! The Coalition is riddled with confusion and self-doubt, no policies, no costings anyway, lies lying on lies, crooks like Brough and Lewis in its ranks, even the MSM is giving up on the utter mad-god's vomit that is the Abbortt-misled Opposition of today.  

TalkTurkey

August 14. 2012 12:39 AM

TalkTurkey

Wow xiaoecho, Grasshopper, Phil, MWS, you are so welcome, just that you 'come out', even if only to say hello, yu give us all heart!

We know there are many many more who benefit from this site especially through the efforts of Lyn spreading wisdom through the entire blogoshere, but the folks who come up as you have, even with just a goodwilled line, are the visible tip that reassures us of the iceberg of likeminded people we can't see. And if your initial impression is that this is a very fine forum indeed, that's because you're right, it is. And it will be more.

TalkTurkey

August 14. 2012 01:54 AM

TalkTurkey

Ad astra
As usual I delayed reading this until after doing some gobbling of my own, byt My O My you say it well. Your collated writings on The Political Sword must comprise a mighty tome of clear shrewd (= wise++) political insight and nous, entirely consistent and unwavering throughout, I am so proud to count myself sort of about a corporal of yours Mon Generale.  

I feel that together we of the 5th Estate are the single game-change factor in the last couple of years, we are just starting to realize our power now. We must grow it fast, our power to spread truth to the People will be critical imo. But we are doing it, betthe than that, we are starring, DYWAT! Yes Ad We are wielding a little blowtorch on those whose paid-for-job it really is to appply it to Abbortt et al . . . and those journos you quote are feeling OUR heat . . . Which is exactly what your strapline at the top says this blog is for . . .
Ad astra Yoour really are
from which true-fi i Ad astra
As usual I delayed reading this until after doing some gobbling of my own, byt My O My you say it well. Your collated writings on The Political Sword must comprise a mighty tome of clear shrewd (= wise++) political insight and nous, entirely consistent and unwavering throughout, I am so proud to count myself sort of about a corporal of yours Mon Generale.  

I feel that together we of the 5th Estate are the single game-change factor in the last couple of years, we are just starting to realize our power now. We must grow it fast, our power to spread truth to the People will be critical imo. But we are doing it, betthe than that, we are starring, DYWAT! Yes Ad We are wielding a little blowtorch on those whose paid-for-job it really is to appply it to Abbortt et al . . . and those journos you quote are feeling OUR heat . . . Which is exactly what your strapline at the top says this blog is for . . .


Ad astra . . . to that very star . . . upon whose true-fixed and resting quality there is no fellow in the firmament . . . well Blogosphere Yeah OK.
Sorry Bill shakespeare, and Julius Caesar too ftm. Ad we're winning overtly now, this spring will be better even than I hoped. Labor has been so-o-o-o successful in adversity with its economic management and reforms that help people on the ground, Abbortt has been so-o-o-o-o OTT he's wedged up his own fundament the rest od=f his mob don't know whether to try to yank him out or to try to push hm through, Oooohhh I lkke that image. Smile

The Abborttians are panicking now, O My, O YES! DYWAT! and their nasty sycophantic journalistic suckerfish are finding the sucking of Abbortt peculiarly bloodless . . . and blood is what they really wanted.

Ad I think your perseverence is paying off.

TalkTurkey

August 14. 2012 02:13 AM

jane

Great post, as always, Ad astra.

I do disagree that the msm has been conned by Lielot, and have now suddenly woken up to him. They have been complicit in ensuring that his more egregious brain farts, lies and obfuscations go unremarked, no doubt on the instructions of the wizened foreigner.

And I wonder if this sudden neutrality can be interpreted as a change in the fortunes of the Emperor to which we are not yet privy?

Or perhaps there is a change in the fortunes of Liealot in the wind. The Emperor is notoriously fickle and intolerant of failure in his puppets.

Liealot probably promised him a quick campaign of whining and bullying would have the desired effect, concluding in both their desired outcomes.

"Six months to get rid of her, tops," he would have promised.

Two years have passed and still she stubbornly refuses to lie down and die.

The Emperor is doubtless displeased, for despite their best, most disgusting efforts to hound Julia Gillard from office, she sails calmly on, as Liealot unhinges daily .

Whatever, being able to read and hear unbiased, honest factual reporting will be a welcome change.

TT, nice to see you back in form after enduring catheter torture.

jane

August 14. 2012 04:55 AM

paul walter

Am alerted to the reality that the carbon tax has run its course.
Also, the confected Thompson smear.
They are already working the next cosh, a rehash of Asylum Seekers.
(Houston committee, this time) with invented negatives exclusively reserved for Gillard, despite the obvious diabolical influence Abbott has had on there ever being a resolution on this issue.

paul walter

August 14. 2012 06:02 AM

Marilyn

A word or two on the so-called panel  - none of them are experts in refugee laws and all they have done is repeat all the drivel served up by Gillard and co. and Abbott and co. over the past few years and haven't given even the remotest nod to the law.

Houston was in charge during many covered up rapes, drunken rampages and murders of children in Afghanistan - he was a Scots migrant who came to be a jackaroo but made a fortune out of learning to kill.  While children are being tortured here and slaughtered in Äfghanistan and other places he was swanning around the world on first class tickets.

He has no credibility left.

Michael Le''Strange claims we have to do these vile and evil things to people who don't drown because things have changed since 2001.  They sure have, we started the two wars that have created about 15 million extra refugees.

Now that Pakistan is kicking them out our only response is to also kick them out.

Paris must resign from his many over paid jobs as he is advocating torture, probably to create more clients for his own over paid job.

They disgust me and all those members and cretinous media who have prattled endlessly about non-stalemates share the blame.

Everyone has the right to seek asylum, there is not an if or a but or a maybe anywhere to be seen.

Marilyn

August 14. 2012 06:59 AM

Lyn

Today’s Links

The Queensland Chainsaw Massacre, Massive Spray, Spray of the Day
Quite frankly they have stuffed themselves massively in a few months. By going on this massive rampage against the public service even the died in the wool conservative voter realises that there will be fewer people available to provide help. Couple this with the fact that the increased unemployment has flow-on effects to other
sprayoftheday.wordpress.com/.../

“That’s just what Jesus said,sir!” Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery
Somehow they saw the word Nauru and did not read anymore. The Prime Minister was VERY clear. This is something totally different. Sure its in Nauru, but it is NOT Howard’s Nauru.And it was not until LATELINE that anyone actually bothered to ask.
ashghebranious.wordpress.com/.../

Gillard returns to work, spoiling for a fight, Mungo MacCallum, The Drum
The power companies had indeed been gouging the public - under their Labor predecessors, of course, and Gillard had done nothing about it then, but hey, perhaps something should be done about it now. Abbott was left seriously exposed, stripped of his lycra and down to the speedos.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4195088.html

Union lion bearded in its den, Ross Gittins
The whole point of the move from the centralised system to bargaining at the enterprise level was to get employers and unions dealing with each other face-to-face and responding their workplace's particular circumstances, rather than the old game of unions pulling on a strike to oblige the referee to intervene and impose a compromise.
www.rossgittins.com/.../...bearded-in-its-den.html

You Heard We’re Stopping The Boats? You Heard Wrong, Mike Steketee , The Global Mail
Asylum seekers certainly do not catch boats because it is the cheaper way to travel — not at the going people-smuggler rates of $5,000 to $10,000 per person. That would easily pay for a ticket to Australia from anywhere in the world; indeed, from many places they could fly first class. There's another advantage in coming by plane: provided you can jump the immigration hurdles at the airport and claim asylum after
www.theglobalmail.org/.../

Hard-headed AND hard-hearted, Marian Dalton,The Conscience Vote
The first thing that strikes the reader is the language. It’s all about ensuring there is ‘no advantage’ for asylum seekers, that they can gain ‘no benefit’. Houston took that one step further, implying that those who ‘choose’ to seek asylum via a boat voyage did so because it allowed them to ‘circumvent’ regular migrations arrangements.
consciencevote.com.au/.../

ABSOLUTELY MAD: John Howard didn’t repeal racial vilification laws for the same reason Tony Abbott ought not, Vex news
But on this one issue of fighting for the right of bigots to racially vilify in public places or public forums, Tony Abbott has ignored his strong conservative instincts to pander to the small-l liberal brigade in the Liberal party who are so deeply sceptical about Abbott in almost all respects.
www.vexnews.com/.../

Abbott's Cape York listening tour falls on deaf eyes, Chris Graham, The Power Index
Finally, what makes me so squeamish about watching Abbott toil away side-by-side with Aboriginal people is that I know that many of them don’t know that some of the things he’s planning to do to them when he gets in office are pretty nasty, and dripping with dog-whistle politics.
www.thepowerindex.com.au/.../abbott-s-cape-york-listening-tour-falls-on-deaf-eyes

Houston panel leans to deterrence in asylum seeker proposals, Bernard Keane Crikey
It has rejected the Coalition’s proposal to turn back boats as currently unworkable but has also raised significant concerns about the government’s Malaysian Solution and put a clear emphasis on getting Nauru (favoured by the Coalition) and an offshore centre on Manus Island in PNG up and running. However, its long-term goal of an expansion of the humanitarian assistance
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Houston report: hard heads deliver $1 billion asylum seeker plan , Charis Palmer, The Conversation
Scott Morrison will spend the rest of the day telling the electorate “I told you so”.I’m sure that the opposition will ignore the criticism of their policy and seize on the Nauru option. That’s what they’ve been running hard and fast and often.I would expect that the Greens will continue to keep their hard line policy as they have in the past
theconversation.edu.au/houston-report-hard-heads-deliver-1-billion-asylum-seeker-plan-8804

Asylum panel backs our solutions, says opposition, @3:36 pm , SBS
Opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison says the federal government must fix the asylum seeker "mess". "The Houston panel has green-lighted Nauru and they have red-lighted Malaysia and the people swap in its current form," he told reporters in Canberra on Monday.The findings also "dispelled the nonsense that it is impossible to turn boats back", he added,
www.sbs.com.au/.../Asylum-panel-backs-our-solutions-says-opposition

Expert Panel on Asylum Seekers
The Report of the Expert Panel on Asylum Seekers was released on 13 August 2012 , Read the full report of the panel, Read the panel's media release
http://expertpanelonasylumseekers.dpmc.gov.au/

Asylum seekers: destination unknown, Miglo, Café Whispers
As a result of the panel’s recommendations the Government will tomorrow introduce legislation into Parliament to allow the resumption of offshore processing on Nauru and Papua New Guinea’s Manus Island. Meanwhile, the Coalition has seized on the Houston panel’s report calling for asylum-seeker processing to resume on Nauru.
cafewhispers.wordpress.com/.../

NBN a “financial disaster”, claims Andrew Bolt, Renai LeMay, Delimeter
misleading articles published by various local newspapers about the NBN. In December, the Australian Press Council expressed concern about the Daily Telegraph’s coverage of the Federal Government’s National Broadband Network project, backing a local critic’s complaint that three articles in a short period of time had contained “inaccurate or misleading assertions” about the NBN
delimiter.com.au/.../

Today’s Front Pages
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 14 August 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Lyn

August 14. 2012 07:04 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 08:28 AM

TalkTurkey

Sorry about my scrappy post last night. Got up in small hours(still having some pain) and the several drugs I'm using put me in weird frame of mind last night, couldn't even remember whether I'd posted it.

Dam I know I still have an infection which s looking rather more serious, more tests currently, but my recaptcha wouldja believe is:
                pieces, umEcoli

TalkTurkey

August 14. 2012 08:34 AM

Ad astra

xiaoecho
Welcome to The Political Sword family and thank you for your comment. We all hope that we are not witnessing a false new dawn, and are aware that the forces against Labor are formidable, especially the Murdoch media.  We need to keep fighting.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 08:39 AM

Ad astra

Folks
I have to rush off now.  Thank you for all your comments overnight.  I'll be back later.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 08:47 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad & Everybody

Thankyou Ad for yet another second to none magnificent article for our enjoyment.  You are appreciated very much Ad Astra.

Also Ad thankyou for saving me from Sir Ian he fightened me you know, rude person picking on little birds shame on him. Thankyou to 2353 and Lady in Red for your replies to SIC.

Twitterverse, early for you, I have to go out today for most of the morning.

You will see I have copied Alan Kohler's article because of the paywall.  The paragraphs selected are the choice parts.  I think Alan Kohler is hilarious.

Melissa Clarke‏
Tony Abbott on #asylum seekers this morning: "I welcome the Prime Minister's last minute conversion to common sense on this issue."

The Australian‏@australian
Coalition to back Nauru, PNG asylum plan: THE Coalition says it will support legislation to allow asylum-seeker ... http://bit.ly/PkSIjl

ABC News‏@abcnews
Political solution: Govt will introduce measures in Parliament to begin sending asylum seekers to Nauru and PNG

Marian Dalton‏@crazyjane13
According to Abbott, when Houston says you can't turn the boats around yet, it really means that you can. (facepalm) #asylum

Marian Dalton‏@crazyjane13
The spin is on. Abbott's deliberately misquoting the #asylum seeker report, and he's getting away with it.

Janice Gill‏@JaniceGill1
Refugee advocates blast processing proposals as a return to 'cruelty' of Howard era http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/-244zk.html

Ten Breakfast‏@tenbreakfast
Morrison: The govt has agreed, finally to our policy #auspol

ABC News Breakfast‏@BreakfastNews
Scott Morrison: There's no necessity for the Opposition to say which of the 22 recommendations we support. That's an issue for the govt

Ten Breakfast‏@tenbreakfast
Morrison: We don't want any tricks, we don't want any games from the govt with this legislation #auspol #asylumreport

Run Mad Monk Run‏@PolAnimalAus
For all the dopy Libs, that includes you Scott Morrison, the Pacific Solution did not work cpd.org.au/.../

Mike Kelly MP‏@MikeKellyMP
Health impact of rising carbon levels said to be costing $6b a year http://www.smh.com.au/environment/-244sx.html

Can Labor win? Yes it can, Alan Kohler, Business Spectator
The Labor Party’s chances of pulling off a come-from-behind win at next year’s election took a big step forward yesterday with two expert panel reports, both of which would have been in line with the old dictum of “never have an inquiry unless you know the answer first”.
compensation for trade-exposed firms is fixed for five years based on old industry averages; many are now emitting much less greenhouse gas and are ahead on the deal. They will squawk if Abbott repeals it.

What’s more, Abbott won’t be able to repeal it before 2015 because of the need for another election to do it, by which time companies may be buying cheap European permits.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott would have read yesterday’s Houston Report with a sinking feeling: it means “Stop The Boats” will now not be an election issue no matter how much he claims credit for it.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard had to find a way to cave and Houston has provided it, as both sides of politics would have known he would. No one will remember that it was the Coalition’s policy that stopped the boats, only that government legislation re-established offshore processing, thus removing asylum seekers from the Australian legal system.
www.businessspectator.com.au/.../Labor-election-carbon-tax-Juila-Gillard-asylum-see-pd20120814-X5SNV

Lyn

August 14. 2012 09:11 AM

Psyclaw


Swordsters

Here is the legislation proposed by Houston, which Mr Bowen said to FKelly this morning will be precisely what is to be legislated.

Migration Act 1958

Amendments to:

(1) Support regional processing by allowing for the transfer of persons from Australia
to another location for the purpose of processing their asylum claims. These
amendments should ensure that any designation of a location as a place where
asylum seekers may be transferred is a disallowable instrument.

(2) Clarify that any person who enters Australia unlawfully by sea is liable to have any
claims for asylum assessed in a location outside Australia. At the present time only
IMA s entering Australia at an ‘excised offshore place’ may be taken for processing in
a location outside Australia.

Migration Regulations 1994

Amendments to:

(3) Prevent future IMA s from being able to be a ‘proposer’ for the purposes of an
SHP application.

(4) Provide a temporary visa to asylum seekers who are having their claims processed
outside Australia, to travel to and remain in Australia on a temporary basis while their
claims for asylum are assessed and a suitable durable outcome is provided.

(5)Ensure that the principle of no advantage can be implemented in relation to IMA s
being processed pursuant to regional arrangements.

Immigration (Guardianship of Children) Act 1946


Amendments to:

(6) Provide that the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship’s consent is not required for
a non-citizen child to be taken from Australia to another location for the purpose of
processing their asylum claims.

(7) The Parliament will have the opportunity to oversight, among other things,
arrangements for minors through its capacity under the Migration Act 1958 to
disallow the instrument designating a country as a regional processing location.


Now here is what I see is the monumental wedge for Abbott and Morriscum if the legislation this arvo does (as Bowen said it will) perfectly follow Houston.

Note this from (1) above ....... "from Australia to another location .......... designation of a location as a place where asylum seekers may be transferred is a disallowable instrument.

No specific location will be specified in the bill, and and whenever the minister in the future specifies a location ie Malaysia, it is disallowable by the Parliament. This means that the parliament will have to vote it down.

And here's the wedge. Abbott's mob or the Greens or an Independent will have to introduce the disallowing bill, and both houses will have to agree. Based on the amendment to the Migration Act voting, the Senate will agree to disallow Malaysia, but the House will not. So a disallowance bill about Malaysia will not succeed. Abbott will be unable to have it passed in both houses.

For me, the big question is whether this arvo the Abbotteers will support the legislation at all, if it comes on writ just as Houston recommends. I doubt it. And this is the second part of the wedge. Morriscum will have to come on the telly and say that they refused to pass the Houston bill.

If what I suspect is true, then the Abbotteers will want to split the legislation and /or eliminate the unpalatable bit, and if Bowen stays firm, the legislation will fail, unless the Abbotteers capitulate.

Maybe Morriscum has been so busy running round the place saying that it was green light Nauru and red light Malaysia by Houston that he has not read/understood  (1) above, or he has not listened to Bowen saying that the bill will be the recommendations precisely.

IMHO there's a bit more to unfold yet.

Psyclaw

August 14. 2012 09:17 AM

2353

Lyn,

I've only just begun with Ian Crisp.  Happy to help.

2353

August 14. 2012 09:25 AM

jaycee

Have to disagree with one tweet commentry...The coalition cherry-picking for MSM. approval is not "getting away with it"..We here on the Fifth Estate are taking the truth right up to their front door and dumping it on them...That is where the MSM. have lost it!...They still delude themselves that THEY call all the shots on commentry these days. Crawl back down your burrows, troglodytes!...we of the Fifth Estate will keep the bastards honest!
Thanks in no small way to those like Lyn and the other dedicated bloggers....one day, there will have to be a monument to salvation built in their honour!!

jaycee

August 14. 2012 09:31 AM

jaycee

Yes, Psyclaw..in a nutshell! And for the love of Zeus, we have to have a regional solution for the sake of all the peoples and nations involved. It has to happen sometime, it would be better if it started as soon as possible. The whole of the Indo-China archipeligo needs a solution to this humanitarian disaster.

jaycee

August 14. 2012 09:37 AM

Cuppa

If the media genuinely haven't woken up to Abbott, that would mean he's smarter than them.

That says extremely little for the media!

I think they do know what he's up to, and for whatever reason/s they're playing along, not putting any obstacle in his way. This destroys any claim to respect they might have.

Cuppa

August 14. 2012 10:09 AM

Tom of Melbourne

“back flip, back down, back pedal, back out”

How will most of the contributors here characterise the latest policy u-turn as a victory?

Tom of Melbourne

August 14. 2012 10:16 AM

Psyclaw


Swordsters

The release of Houston has raised further discussion around the place about what the HC said in the Malaysia case.

Note that the court made no statement along the lines of "only countries that have signed the Convention are acceptable"

From the majority joint judgement at point 126 comes:

"A country does not provide protections of the kind described in s 198A(3)(a)(ii) or (iii) unless its domestic law deals expressly with the classes of persons mentioned in those sub-paragraphs OR it is internationally obliged to provide the particular protections. "

Note the "OR"

And also from the majority joint judgement, at point 135 come:

"Where, as in the present case, it is agreed that Malaysia: first, does not recognise the status of refugee in its domestic law..........; second, is not party to the Refugees Convention or the Refugees Protocol; and, third, has made no legally binding arrangement with Australia obliging it to accord the protections required by those instruments; it was not open to the Minister to conclude that Malaysia provides the access or protections referred to in s 198A(3)"

What the Js said was that it was not open to Minister Bowen to just provide an essay  attesting to the fact that Malaysia would be a safe place to which ASs could be returned and staple to it a few affidavits complimentary to Malaysia to satisfy s 198.

In the quote above their honours list three types of evidence, namely international law, domestic law, and legally binding agreements with Australia that demonstrate what French CJ called "an enduring legal framework" to show that Malaysia was legally bound to keep the ASs safe.

They do not say unequivocally at any place in the judgement "Malaysia is unsuitable because it has not signed the convention".

Perhaps the most definitive and telling part of the judgement comes from French CJ who at point 67 said "Constitutional guarantees, protective domestic laws and international obligations are not always reflected in the practice of states. There are examples around the world of governments whose implementation of human rights standards fall short ....." He emphasises here that while some countries do legally bind themselves to treat ASs appropriately, by their domestic and international laws, in  actual practice they do no such thing (eg Iran, a signatory to the Convention)

Perchance  anyone (say from the southern capital) comments that my interpretation is "picky" a perusal of just a few HC cases will show them that the very essence of the HC's work in every case it hears, is to analyse in minute detail just what someone meant when they used particular words. That is their business and great skill.

If the HC had intended that the sine qua non of a safe nation to which ASs could be sent was its being a signatory to the Convention it would have been quite careful to spell it out precisely and unequivocally.

So Swordsters should be a bit sceptical when they hear the words "the ASs can't be sent to XYZ because XYZ hasn't signed the convention"

Psyclaw

August 14. 2012 10:33 AM

nasking

The comeback is on!

Say NO to an Abbott black hole government. Say YES to protecting workers' rights and wages and conditions, YES to the NBN, YES to the National Disability scheme, YES to more affordable housing, YES to affordable and preventative healthcare...YES to affordable training and education. YES to affordable Aged Care.

Great post Ad. And many brill comments.

Keep up the top work.

Just had to pop in quickly.

Cheers
N'

nasking

August 14. 2012 10:55 AM

DMW

I spy with my little eye a big brown bear

Welcome back Nasking

DMW

August 14. 2012 10:59 AM

jaycee

The fool inquires of victory while he is still in the foxhole. News ; Labor still governs, Gillard still PM. Liberals STILL in opposition, Abbott will no longer be able to say NO! Every footfall takes him to the brink of the trap..He cannot say yes, he cannot say no..he can only prevaricate. While his toadys wish and hope for wisdom....and all they get is Morrison!

jaycee

August 14. 2012 11:04 AM

DMW

So, the PM has had discussions with the Chief of the Defence Forces to discuss the logistics of re-opening the detention(?) facilities on Nauru.

So this is a defence/border protection issue? The people who travel here by boat are criminals? Do I correctly read between the lines?

I note that in some places the facilities are now being referred to as 'processing centres'. Mixed messages according to audience or point of view?

DMW

August 14. 2012 11:10 AM

LadyInRed

Tweetypie - don't worry Crisp is a bully and we all know that bullies are just covering up for a problem that lies within themselves. You keep tweeting and chirping and doing what you do..... around here you are well loved.

Thanks Psyclaw for the explanation.
I am truly sick of Mossison and One Trick Tony swanning around telling outright porkies. I think they are misjudging this one. The PM is correct the electorate want this sorted and are not in the mood for games, and that goes for the Greens also. I know this is not the ideal solution - but it is the one that is on the table. So I say get on with it.

LadyInRed

August 14. 2012 11:13 AM

2353

“back flip, back down, back pedal, back out”

How will most of the contributors here characterise the latest policy u-turn as a victory?

Oooh look - someone with no legitimacy attempting to call out people who have the right to an opinion.  Funny if it wasn't so sad.

Nas - nice to see the bear here too!

psyclaw - the way I understand the legislation that will be debated today to operate is that Australia will be able to send asylum seekers to any country for "processing" based on the listing of the country in a suitable format.  The regulation can only be challenged by both houses of Parliament.  So, provided the Government of the day has the numbers in one house they could regulate North Korea as an acceptable location - and there is diddily squat that the opposition of the day can do about it.

2353

August 14. 2012 11:15 AM

LadyInRed

ToM

Get off the win/lose high horse that you are on....its tiresome.

Just to help you out:

Compromise - A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions

See no mention of the words win or lose or u-turn.

LadyInRed

August 14. 2012 11:28 AM

DMW

Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives. Ideally, this includes equal (direct or indirect) participation in the proposal, development and passage of legislation into law. It encompasses social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

As part of the Australian version of democracy eligible citizens must, by compulsion, attend a polling place to vote. How the citizen chooses vote or who they vote for is an absolute secret that not even the Electoral Commisioner can determine.

When a citizen casts an invalid/informal vote either by blank paper or by misnumbering it doesn't count.

Nowhere that I am aware of is it written that a person who casts an invalid or informal vote that they are to be denied any of the other rights, resposibilities or privileges of our democratic society.

DMW

August 14. 2012 11:48 AM

Tom of Melbourne

I see.

I specifically support protection for asylum seekers, on shore processing, marriage equality and greater support for indigenous people.

I specifically don’t support political duplicity. I think NBN is vastly over priced and much of the stimulus was wasteful and misdirected. I don’t like union control of the ALP.

As a consequence I put the same number in the box next to the ALP and the Liberals. But some think this makes my opinions illegitimate.

Bizarre.
--------------------------------
Get used to it Lady in Red. When the ALP decides to put politics in front of human rights, as they have at every opportunity in the past decade on this issue, they will get plenty of well founded criticism.

Tom of Melbourne

August 14. 2012 12:01 PM

jaycee

Ohh!..I get it...ToM is a "freelance anarchist"....: "contrarys 'R' us"!!....Jeeezus!..no wonder you can't decide where to vote!

jaycee

August 14. 2012 12:04 PM

LadyInRed

ToM

No-one looks good on this issue, and that goes for every commentator who now wants to score points off it.

So if you want to score points you wont get them off me. Fence-sitting is not a solution and it doesn't somehow absolve you. Nor does my vote for Labor mean I have to like every decision they make, and it doesn't define who I am, what it does do is give an idicator of my value system.....note I said indicator. I think this is something you need to get your head around.

LadyInRed

August 14. 2012 12:10 PM

Psyclaw


2353

"the way I understand the legislation that will be debated today to operate is that Australia will be able to send asylum seekers to any country for "processing" based on the listing of the country in a suitable format"

I'm not sure what you mean here, especially your last eleven words.


If you read my 10.16am post you will see aspects that the HC will still have to be satisfied about  .... there would certainly be an appeal.

So "any country" certainly would not suffice.

And your example of North Korea would certainly be disallowed by this current Parliament.

But why would you give such an implausible example. Who in Australia is talking about off shore processing away from SE Asia or the South Pacific??????

Both Houston and the government have talked unambiguously about regional processing.

BTW what is to be debated today, says Mr Bowen, will be the legislative recommendations of Houston, fully and precisely  written up as a bill.

They can be easily read at P 141 of the report.

Psyclaw

August 14. 2012 12:11 PM

Jason

DMW,
   "Nowhere that I am aware of is it written that a person who casts an invalid or informal vote that they are to be denied any of the other rights, resposibilities or privileges of our democratic society"

But they will always be known as a scab and a bludger!

Jason

August 14. 2012 12:14 PM

LadyInRed

DMW

I take your point. However, everyday on the news we see people dying and pleading for the right to vote. Uganda, Zimbabwe, North Korea, China, USSR, Afganistan, Cambodia, South Africa,......do I need to go on?

I take voting very, very seriously. And I do believe I have given ToM his voice.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing


That's how I feel about voting.

LadyInRed

August 14. 2012 12:14 PM

TalkTurkey

The final line if The Ballad of Saltbush Bill goes,

"The best day's work that ever he did was the day he lost the fight"
www.middlemiss.org/.../saltbushbill.html

*J*U*L*I*A* has sacrificed a couple of pawns but changed the game. By includng Nauru so beloved of Abbortt, as I said yesterday, she has forcrd Abbortt to accept the whole package. The object of this play was to achieve a rational unarguable outcome against which the Abborttians cannot object because in the meantime they are claiming it as their own policy. It isn't, it's part of a plan for a long-term much-more-satisfactory procedure which will at least be equitable, or as nearly so as possible, but it left the Abborttians the only funk-hole left to them, to scuttle through it and claim it their own. Julia Gillard is geuuinely humble enough, and surely tough enough, to take their jeeers and braysing, because as we know, the outcome is the nub.  The government willl get its way at last.

TalkTurkey

August 14. 2012 12:24 PM

Ian

cross posted from Poll Bludger;

To put it quite simply;

Australian suburbia see asylum seekers arriving by boat as someone who jumps their backfence and, without invitation, walks through their backdoor, flops onto the couch and puts their feet up on the coffee table. Then demands to be fed and treated as a family member, but only on their terms………….and the bloody Government lets them get away with it.

That they have been encouraged to think this way by shockjocks, newspaper opinion columns, avid racsists and all the rest is of no import. After all, these people come here and build funny churches they call mosques, wear strange headgear, eat weird food and, given half a chance, would barrack for Collingwood.

This, whether you like it or not, is what the suburbs think.

They are not concerned with policy backflips, Green angst, crocodile tears or anything other than stopping strangers jumping the backfence and walking into their home. Julia Gillard, via the Houston report, has just done that. The arrival of boats will no longer be front and centre in daily news cycle, and why should it be?…after all, their boy Tones’ legislation got up and was supposed to stop the arrivals!

The penny has probably dropped with Credlin and the LNP brains trust about just how comprehensively, seamlessly and subtly they have been done over. The msm, of course, will never get it.

Ian

August 14. 2012 01:41 PM

TalkTurkey

Re my post at 12.14

And that makes a clean sweep of the Government's entire agenda.


What the hell can the MSM do with that? - over a whole year, including what I am convinced will be a very careful thoughtful intelligent Governmental election campaign this next time. What will the Abborttians (or Turdballers, Hockey freaks, Bishoprics, whoever) be able to say? We have WHITEWASHED them.

The beat of the battle trireme drum quickens a little more today. And our beat sounds so confident, theirs very uncertain. We are having these bastards on toast now. As  from today, really. They are on the run on everything, Thomson/Jacksonville+++, Slipper/Ashby+++++, the economy, NBN, NDIS, NCPS, (did I get them right ooh these drugs!) but you know what I mean Comrades, Labor's legislation is all-but-done! What is more, with the even-more-solid aid of those two brave ex-Rightish genuine free spirits Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor, for whom no thanks from this nation will ever suffice. their journeys have been rocky and very arduous, but I believe they believe they have done the right thing all along, and II say Too Right Fellers, you were there when we needed you and you did not fail us. You placed the People before yourselves, a rare and noble act in any period of history in any society. Such is my notion of heroism.

Ad astra and Lyn Tweety and all us Swordie Comrades (we're not really Commies, er well that is, erm Smile) WELCOME you to visit here of course. May the Labor Party never give you cause to regret your evolution from your original position. (Said with good intent.) We owe you much.

I must also commend Mr Andrew Wilkie, of different personalty type but still of decent character I think, and not least Peter Slipper, whom I have no personal reason let alone evidence to consider gullty of anything. Oh except of being a Christian, I'll try to forgive him that!    

Boom Boom BOOM BOOM
I foretell Abbortt's DOOM!

I have never anticipated the pleasure of victory as I do the impending one over this terrible man. Don't let us down Comrades. We must use our brains and our love and humanity, our articulateness and our own media to educate enough of our countrymen to see an end to the madness of Abborttianism.

It is a tough call, and a sacred trust really, we didn't ask for this but it really is upon us. It is uncannily akin to the Lord of the Rimgs, we are tiny but game, they are massive and eadly, and we simply must defeat them. But there is much pleasure in finding chinks in their massive armour, Lyn flies in and out of them every day, showing us where to stick our Sword. Our MAGIC Sword.  

Nearly Question Time. Labor, SEIZE THE TIME!

"The stock horse snuffs the battle with delight"

TalkTurkey

August 14. 2012 01:50 PM

2353

psyclaw - prehaps I didn't make myself clear, lets try again.  The legislation to be introduced will enable the naming of "acceptable" places for "processing" asylum seekers that get to Australia can be made by regulation rather than legislation.  It may be a centre that processes asylum seekers for the entire Asian region, or it might be a centre that processes asylum seekers for just Australia.  The advantage to the regulation route rather than legislation from the government of the day's point of view is that a regulation has to be overturned by both houses of Parliament, legislation has to be upheld by both houses - a much harder task when there is little appetite for compromise (as is currently the case).

I'm not aware from media reports on any restriction to the "centres" that could be named as acceptable - should a government choose to do so.  So while Gillard's Government has publically stated there is only the will to use two "centres" - namely Nauru and Manus Island - some Government in the future could expand the allowed centres to include any future Asian regional centre (assuming agreements were in place to do so).  While North Korea was a "throw away" line, it's my understanding that should the nations that comprise South East Asia decide to process all asylum seeker claims in North Korea (the North Koreans probably need the cash as much as Nauru), provided the regulation listing the country wasn't overturned by both houses of Parliament, it could happen from a legal prespective.

2353

August 14. 2012 02:13 PM

Psyclaw



2353

The relevant meaning of "region" in the context of the Houston report and the ongoing discussions about ASs would be " a specified district, an area of interest".

I have not heard any discussion of countries in central or northern Asia in this respect. The region under discussion is SE Asia, in particular southern SE Asia.

There are more relevant and important issues to discuss here rather than the obtuse idea that a future Australian government might do as you suggest.

Anyway, if your deep fears were realised, the democratic process would take care of it at the next election.

Psyclaw

August 14. 2012 04:21 PM

Jason

Australian Senate‏@AuSenate

Senator Mary Jo Fisher has now formally resigned as a Senator for the state of South Australia

Check her bags on the way out!

Jason

August 14. 2012 04:35 PM

Psyclaw


Swordsters

There is an error in my 9.11 am post.... a downright careless mistake.

Under s42 of the Legislative Instruments Act, one house of parliament acting alone can disallow.

So if and when Bowen puts up Malaysia, the Greens and Abbotteers in the Senate can bomb it.

What a shame.

However, by the time satisfactory (to the HC) arrangements are made with Malaysia it's not impossible that Abbott will be gone, replaced by someone with a little less blood lust.

The way he and they behaved in QT and the abysmal quality of their questions would suggest that his desperation is leading to even poorer judgements.

Running up and down on the spot by Abbott can only be admired by his mob for a limited time.

Psyclaw

August 14. 2012 04:48 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Question time Twitterati for you.

A big Hello to Nasking.   My head nearly bumped my computer with happiness Nasking , because I was so pleased to see you.

Question time  with Abbott’s nastiness was a bit upsetting today. I guess if the boats keep coming Abbott will say that is because the Government won’t re-introduce Howard’s TPV’s

Sportsbetcomau Media‏
More bets for Julia Gillard to win the next election but all the big bets are for the Coalition. ALP $6, Liberals into $1.10

Marian Dalton‏
Julie Bishop yells across the table angrily at the PM, as Abbott smirks. Unedifying way to end #qt

Richard Willingham‏
J-bishop asks the Pm to apologize for deaths at sea. ALP backbencher replies will apologize for the Iraq war?

Agnes Mack ‏
Tony Abbott has doubts re supporting increased refugee intake. Says earlier offer to increase to 20K "only ...trying 2 broker deal. Shame!

Curiosity Geek
No questions on carbon price on first occasion in Parliament since its introduction? Tells you all you need to know. Smile #qt #auspol

Ken ‏@KoenjiEikaiwa
@AgnessMack Tony Abbott'll be dumped by elecorate if bill isn't passed it's tired of stalemate & Coalition 2 blame PM supports all 22 items

Abbott speaking on the Bill, Latika Bourke ABC Journalist tweeting Abbott :

  Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
41 Oppn MPs listed to speak on the Offshore processing #asylum bill. 4 Govt MPs. 1 Wilkie. #asylum

Agnes Mack‏
Abbott not really speaking on the bill. He seems to be delivering speech he'd prepared for squashed MPI

Brad McCoy‏
So this is going to be a long sitting. 42 speakers just on Coalition side?

Kimmaree ‏@kimmaree_tweet
PM has trumped LOTO again - he has had to agree, so has to shut-up about boats but if it fails got him to say it is HIS policy #qt.

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Tony Abbott 'there is a judgement problem, there is an integrity problem, there is a consistency problem' with the Govt's #asylum policy.

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Tony Abbott - 'had this Govt not changed the policies that worked, the PM's statement would have been correct' Boats would've stayed stopped

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Tony Abbott - I won't go as far as Neil Mitchell, I don't say that it is the PM's personal fault that all these tragedies have unfolded

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Tony Abbott says he's confident the Govt will also come to accept the other two planks of their #asylum policy.

Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
Tony Abbott 'at last. But let us not quibble over four years...let us Thank God that finally this Govt has come to its senses.' #as

Abbott welcomes move to reopen Nauru, SBS

"I would be very, very cautious about a big increase in our refugee intake," he said.

"We certainly were prepared to contemplate taking it up to 20,000 but only as a way of trying to broker a deal.

"It will be very expensive."

In late June, Mr Abbott agreed to a request from Liberal MPs to amend the coalition's position in parliament's lower house to include boosting Australia's refugee intake to 20,000.

www.sbs.com.au/.../Abbott-welcomes-move-to-reopen-Nauru

Lyn

August 14. 2012 05:07 PM

Michael

The Coalition believes it can beat up on Julia Gillard and Labor in a "told you so" approach to debating refugee policy.

Will that impress the Australian electorate?

Maybe the "election now" mob, but hard to imagine anyone else applauding the kicking to punctured leather of a political 'football' most seem weary of seeing kicked back and forth with no endtime on the scoreboard, and the away team demanding the game go on forever... or until the home team 'lie down and die'.

Well, we know what chance the 'aways' have of that!

Michael

August 14. 2012 06:06 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I’m back from a long day of business, and came across this article from Alan Kohler in Climate Spectator titled: Can Labor win? Yes it can

www.climatespectator.com.au/.../can-labor-win-yes-it-can

When Alan Kohler writes like this, there is change in the air!

”The Labor Party’s chances of pulling off a come-from-behind win at next year’s election took a big step forward yesterday with two expert panel reports, both of which would have been in line with the old dictum of “never have an inquiry unless you know the answer first”.

“One deals with the problem of mobile capital, the other deals with the problem of mobile people. Both were hurting Labor, and both have been neutralised.

“Separately the government is also reported to be planning to scrap the $15 a tonne floor price on carbon emissions trading from 2015 and replace it with a link to the European ETS, where permits are currently selling for less than $10.

“Can the ALP really win? Definitely. The main problems remain the morale of the ALP itself, and Julia Gillard’s lack of public authenticity, stemming partly from the broken promise on carbon tax and her opposition to gay marriage and partly from her robotic style.

“Against that, the economy is travelling very well indeed and the Coalition has a very big looming problem funding handouts without the taxes (carbon tax and mining tax) that go with them. The hole is said to be $70 billion, which will have to come from spending cuts or other taxes.

“Gillard and Wayne Swan believe that if they neutralise boats and company tax as issues, then the $70 billion hole will sink Tony Abbott.

“Also, they hope the carbon tax will be less of an issue because a growing number of emitting companies are already making a profit out of it. That’s because the compensation for trade-exposed firms is fixed for five years based on old industry averages; many are now emitting much less greenhouse gas and are ahead on the deal. They will squawk if Abbott repeals it.

“What’s more, Abbott won’t be able to repeal it before 2015 because of the need for another election to do it, by which time companies may be buying cheap European permits.

“That leaves boat people and company tax.

“The review of asylum seeker policy led by Angus Houston has provided cover for the re-opening of the Nauru processing centre, no doubt as intended. It ensures that new legislation for offshore processing will pass parliament with Coalition support.
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott would have read yesterday’s Houston Report with a sinking feeling: it means “Stop The Boats” will now not be an election issue no matter how much he claims credit for it.

“The Nauru/Malaysia impasse was hurting Labor the most because policy failures are always, rightly, blamed on the government of the day; the Coalition was being rewarded for intransigence.

“Prime Minister Julia Gillard had to find a way to cave and Houston has provided it, as both sides of politics would have known he would. No one will remember that it was the Coalition’s policy that stopped the boats, only that government legislation re-established offshore processing, thus removing asylum seekers from the Australian legal system.

“It also helps distance the ALP from its damaging partnership with the Greens, who are sticking with their opposition to offshore processing.

“Meanwhile mobile capital may been neutralised as an issue by the Business Tax Working Group, led by Chris Jordon, which has dusted off the old roadmap for Australia to join the global contest for capital through lower company tax rates, by removing a lot of depreciation allowances.

“The fact is that a company tax rate is easy for foreign CEOs to understand while depreciation is complicated and opaque.

“The intellectual argument for reducing targeted depreciation allowances to pay for a general cut in the company tax rate includes the idea that it would even things up between tangible and intangible assets. As yesterday’s report says: “The working group is also mindful of the growing importance of intangible assets in the generation of corporate profit. Intangible assets include brands, intellectual property, customer lists, internal processes, and copyrights which are often the result of investments such as R&D and marketing.”

“Anyway, by suggesting that a company tax rate cut be financed by slicing depreciation and R&D allowances, Chris Jordan’s group has turned the debate from one between the government and business to one within business – basically between miners and the rest.

“Thank you Chris. Thank you Angus. Now for some acting lessons.”


What do you think?

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 06:20 PM

2353

AA - Kohler's article is more evidence the "con" has been sussed.

psyclaw - don't get hung up over a throwaway line.  It may never happen, agreed.  But lighten up - you continual posting on a triviality is a demonstration why anything to do with politics is so adversarial in Australia at present.  The shame is it shouldn't be.

2353

August 14. 2012 06:21 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I’ll now try to catch up with your comments:

Phil
How right you are – journalists and used car salesmen vie with politicians for the bottom spots in the league table of public regard.

KHTAGH
Thank you for your kind remarks.  I’m not sure what governs the writing of journalists, but for many it is not finding and publishing facts, all the facts, and basing opinion logically on them; there seems to be another agenda, or perhaps several running.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 06:27 PM

Ad astra

Talk Turkey
First, we hope you are feeling better and steadily recovering.  Sorry I haven’t had time to ring you for a couple of days; I’ll ring tomorrow.

I’ve read your delightful comments and thank you for your so complimentary remarks.  We are all in this fight together and your advocacy and strength of commitment to the cause inspires us all.

I enjoyed this comment: “It is an incredibly elegant gambit, few have yet realized it, the Abborttians have just started to realize how subtly she has sucked them in. In this nuanced chess game she has sacrificed a couple of pawns, and taken a knight a rook and several pawns, and now his King is exposed at last. Abbortt's Stop the Boats Stop the Tax Burn the Bitch Worst Government Ever attack strategy has failed abjectly, he has FAILED on EVERYTHING now (because they CAN'T avoid the Government AS-Legislation-to-be, and that is Labor's Grand Slam!)  Abbortt's discomfiture tomorrow will be a sight to behold, and gangrene is setting in apace. He won't last to Crispmess. Or if he does the LCP will be a rump after the next election. Like Black playing a chess game down to the King alone when Red has all main pieces still. It's that stark. Isn't it Ad! ”  

Yes TT, it is!

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 06:38 PM

Psyclaw


2353

Thank you for introducing ad hominems and sledges. Your "class" is vey obvious. Low!

If all you can give is "throw away lines", then why say anything? I know the answer ....... say anything and if caught out "oh, silly me!  ..... It was only a throw away line".

I am very happy for TPS readers to judge whether it is you or me who is the trivia specialist.

Psyclaw

August 14. 2012 06:39 PM

TalkTurkey

I wrote

Nearly Question Time. Labor, SEIZE THE TIME!
"The stock horse snuffs the battle with delight"

Then I fell asleep right where I was. Didn't hear a word of it after Robert Whatsisname died.

The world was still here when I came to. One day it won't be I guess.


Frau Jelly defending the AS Report as very much NOT forward to Howard's past, but good sense. That's enough. All we need is for the mildly Right to accept that Labor has in the end achieved a long-term workable system of controlling who comes here and blah. And that the Abborttians have agreed to it all anyway, so have nothing at all to whinge about. OK they got exactly what they want, (what it always shoulda been they say), all right they share responsibility whatever might happen. Which is forever unknowable.
Each incident and each individual must be considered individually and with all possible depatch, that is the most important thing. Given that all else will follow.    


TalkTurkey

August 14. 2012 06:40 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
I’ll have to leave reading your links until bedtime but I’ve read your Twitterverse and Twitterati with enjoyment.

I see Sir Ian hasn’t returned to apologize or to heap more scorn.  I hope he takes a long break.

Thank you for your kind remarks.  You are always so encouraging.  

I saw you had already linked Alan Kohler’s article after I posted the full text.  I was so excited to read that from him; he has been so critical of Julia Gillard and her Government in the past.  

Saying that Julia can win, and giving good reasons why he believes that is possible, must send shivers up the spine of the Duracell Bunny.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 06:44 PM

jane

Nas', great to see your avatar again. Are you in good bear roar and hug? And S'?

ToM, unfortunately on shore processing has got a snowball's chance atm, although it's the best way, imo. There's no getting around it until it's no longer a political blunt instrument.

It may be that the new legislation will be a good compromise, provided that claims are promptly and fairly processed.

Hopefully a regional solution which has the welfare of asylum seekers as its highest priority, can be hammered out.

And you've got to admit that more barracking for Collingwood is a worry. Ian @12.24pm, has nailed it.

Jason @4.21p, I suppose the Liars have selected another drop kick in her place.

jane

August 14. 2012 06:45 PM

Ad astra

Nasking
Welcome, welcome back.  We hope you are feeling much better.

Thank you for your kind comments.

I see you are exhilarated by the comeback that seems to be going on. Let’s all contribute to it and retain our good Government and our resolute PM.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 06:49 PM

Lyn


Hi Ad and Everybody

Just posted on Twitter Matthew Franklin taking voluntry redundancy.

Words of encouragement thankyou Lady in Red.

Ad I had posted Alan Kohler earlier and I did say I thought he was hilarious, I think that because he is always so scathing and I just pictured him writing the article fighting with himself. Mind you Alan made me happy at last some decent reporting. You are right Ad more evidence of a change appearing.

Australian Media
Franklin leaves The Australian: THE Australian's chief political correspondent, Matthew Franklin, has taken volu... http://bit.ly/O4SfzL
He joins the Perth bureau chief Tony Barrass, television writer Kerrie Murphy, deputy-editor of The Weekend Australian Magazine Greg Callaghan and a number of sub-editors including Seamus Phelan who have opted to leave.

Lyn

August 14. 2012 06:49 PM

Ad astra

Psyclaw
Thank you for explaining the legalities of the AS situation.  Your legal mind is a great asset to TPS.

I would be pretty sure that Tony Abbott is not aware of these niceties.  He doesn’t deal in details, just I what slogan, true or otherwise, he can use for the day.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 06:54 PM

Ad astra

Cuppa
That is an interesting question – who is smarter, Tony Abbott or the media.  If the media is not smart it will be pulled down by Abbott into the mire.  I suspect journalists are smarter than that.  We are seeing evidence of that already.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 06:55 PM

TalkTurkey

Poor Mary-jo
She really had to go
She really truly blew it, what a drag!
And she told her final session
It was all down to depression
(But Security made sure to check her bag!)

From an original idea by Jason Obelix.

[This sings to Poor Jud is Dead from Oklahoma]


The serious, really serious issue is, all the people who for lesser larcenies unaggravated by assault go to gaol and carry convictions for life. Fisher had to go a second time and still gets special treatment. What happened to "Instant dismissal"?

TalkTurkey

August 14. 2012 06:56 PM

Ad astra

Ian
I agree with your comment: ”They [the public] are not concerned with policy backflips, Green angst, crocodile tears or anything other than stopping strangers jumping the backfence and walking into their home. Julia Gillard, via the Houston report, has just done that. The arrival of boats will no longer be front and centre in daily news cycle, and why should it be?…after all, their boy Tones’ legislation got up and was supposed to stop the arrivals!

The penny has probably dropped with Credlin and the LNP brains trust about just how comprehensively, seamlessly and subtly they have been done over. The msm, of course, will never get it.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 07:00 PM

Ad astra

2353
I wonder if JG will try Malaysia again, and if so, when?  Maybe after the next election?

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 07:05 PM

Ad astra

Michael
I agree.  If Tony Abbott tries to squeeze any more out of the AS situation once the legislation is passed, I think the electorate will recoil, and if the boats keep arriving, I’m sure JG will point out that this is despite Nauru and Manus Island, which Abbott has wanted for so long. He’s really not on a winner now.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 07:11 PM

Ad astra

jaycee
I agree with your comment: ”…we of the Fifth Estate will keep the bastards honest! 
Thanks in no small way to those like Lyn and the other dedicated bloggers....one day, there will have to be a monument to salvation built in their honour!!”

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 07:17 PM

Gravel

Ad Astra

Thank you for taking your valuable time to got through all those articles to show how some journalists are subtly changing their tune.  I may get a bit more positive when the tv stations and radio stations start doing the same.

Nasking

Good to see you are still keeping an eye on us.  Keep well.

Psyclaw

Thanks for all your input on the asylum seeker bills and issues.  Have I said I am over it all and just want it to go away.

Lyn

I'd give you another gold medal for your efforts, but it would mean you would have build a whole new house to keep the millions you have earned already.  Smile

Gravel

August 14. 2012 07:18 PM

Ad astra

Jason
You really are a great source of information.  Thank you.

So Mary Jo has gone!

paul walter
I think you are right, the carbon tax scare is evaporating, the Thompson and Slipper affairs have gone quiet, and the AS matter is moving to resolution.  So what will Duracell Bunny do?  Talk about them and bore us all senseless.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 07:21 PM

Ad astra

Gravel
Thank you for your complimentary comment.

The next step is that the TV, especially the ABC, needs to change its tune.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 07:23 PM

Ad astra

LadyinRed
Thank you for your several comments, and a special thanks for your defence of Lyn and for coping with ToM>

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 07:42 PM

Marilyn

Jesus people are stupid.  There are 8 million refugees in our region, we are wanting to send away just a few thousand including children for no reason at all and spending $5 billion to do it.

There is no law that says we can make it a crime to come here by sea and Bowen is a disgraceful revolting toad.

Marilyn

August 14. 2012 07:45 PM

Jason

Psyclaw,
       Nothing wrong with a good sledge! My class is "low" we were "convicts" on the first fleet!
I have no problem with what 2353 has to say! in fact sometimes it's preferable to speak in a language everyone understands!
If you don't like it so be it! but "class" you sound like a pompus twat!

Jason

August 14. 2012 07:55 PM

Ad astra

2353
I think you are right – the con has been sussed.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 07:57 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
I wonder why Matthew Franklin has taken his leave.  He was certainly no friend of the Government.  He was the prime mover in the BER ‘waste and mismanagement’ campaign.

Ad astra

August 14. 2012 07:59 PM

Tom of Melbourne

I find it breathtakingly hypocritical that so many here can just dump on their (allegedly) principled positions on asylum seekers.

It’s typical of Ad Astra and his many loyal cronies** that they simply fall into line with whatever the latest policy backflip/backpedal/ back-down that happens to be approved by the ALP hacks.

There is no critical analysis of this policy, no options explored… it’s just low grade. puke inducing, cloying partisan claptrap… dressed up as partisan claptrap.

**a small number of independently minded types excluded.

Tom of Melbourne

August 14. 2012 08:24 PM

jaycee

So ToM..instead of gasping for breath, seeing as how your principles are so offended, instead of lamenting on your state, why not just leave the site?.....Oh!..yes, yes..I see..you're not really offended, you're really titilated that you have an opportunity to sound moral and superior.....sad news, ToM..morally superiority has passed you by long ago..try to live with your fate of being a sad-sack!

jaycee

August 14. 2012 08:25 PM

Jason

ToM,
   Stand in front of a mirror then you'll see a hypocrite!
Instead of having your usual hissy fit why don't you take a load off Aa and put up a piece where you have looked at all the information that's available and point out the the  pros and cons!
Perhaps we are ill informed,so here's your chance to educate us.
Are willing to do it ToM? put up or shut up!

Jason

August 14. 2012 08:31 PM

Lyn

Hi Jaycee

I am sorry I should have said thankyou to you earlier,  thankyou very much for your kind words.  BTW I do enjoy your posts heaps.

Gravel you are always just a Political Sword Sweetie, your support is very valuable.

Thankyou Jason for telling us about Mary Jo @ 04:21 PM

Talk Turkey thankyou to you.  You are an inspiration and your encouragement is always delightful.

While I am here I have to leave some twitsnippets

TAWNBPM‏

Call me perverse, but I want to express sincere hopes that Mary Jo Fisher can face the battles ahead. Am sure... www.abc.net.au/.../4198218
www.abc.net.au/.../4198218

Galileo‏@FlatEarthGang
CUhlmann Chant for the LNP whilst working for the ABC is like a Turkey chant for Christmas. Deliver all your colleagues to the sword of TA

Victoria Rollison‏@Vic_Rollison
So Abbott quotes shock jocks in parliament? Tells you a lot about where his inspiration comes from

AndoJC‏@AndoJC
Credit to the PM. Couldnt get refugee legislation through Parlt,engages independent panel, compromises & Abbott still plays politics #auspol

Judge Trickibee‏
It's not the Howard Era Pacific Solution, Uhlman. Why don't you read the report - isn't that your job? #abc730

Lyn

August 14. 2012 09:05 PM

2353

AA - Since there are apparently already some facilities in Malaysia for establishing the bone fides of asylum seekers, Gillard would be mad not to have it included when she has the rest of the regional assessment and rehousing of asylum seekers program tied up.  I'm sure those who negotiate these issues on behalf of the Government are already discussing it in the corridors of power as with few exceptions there seems to be some support for the proposal.

Jason - thanks for the support.


Tfm wrote I find it breathtakingly hypocritical that one who posts here can just dump on their (allegedly) principled position that no one is worthy of his vote.

It’s typical of Ad Astra and his many loyal observers** that they are clever enough to post analysis and not fall into line with whatever the latest policy backflip/backpedal/ back-down that happens to be approved by the someone who illegitimately comments because he didn't vote, hacks or the LOTO that only got the job by one vote - from a person he subsequently persecuted once he showed some individual thought.

There is critical analysis of this policy, no options explored by Abbott and Credlin it’s just low grade. puke inducing, cloying partisan claptrap that all here and elsewhere are used to from me and the LNP… dressed up as partisan claptrap.

**a small number of independently minded types included.


Oh, by the way I fixed it for you - in bold so you could see you errors.  Pleasant dreams.

2353

August 14. 2012 09:06 PM

DMW

LadyInRed,
some good points about excercising our democratic right and casting a valid vote. More on that in a mo'

It is very sobering when hearing about people dying so that their fellow countrymen will, hopefully, one day have similar priveleges to us.

Your comment ... my vote for Labor (does not) mean I have to like every decision they make, and it doesn't define who I am, what it does do is give an idicator of my value system ...  struck a chord. Nicely put.

One of the the things that excercises my mind is around how do those that are politcally engaged but really can't find a suitable candidate or party to vote for express their desires through the ballot box? It is an unsolvable conundrum I suspect which may be why I try to solve it!!!

More worrying though, as shown by the last election, was the low turnout and the higher number of informal votes. There are many who would vote 1 for 'None of the Above' it seems. What is even more perplexing is that there are people similar to ToM that do take an interest but really can't find someone to vote for.

It reflects poorly on where the system has descended to and on quite a number of the players in the game we call politics.

DMW

August 14. 2012 09:06 PM

Psyclaw


Jason @ 7.45pm

"but "class"! you sound like a pompus twat!"

I didn't realize you were so articulate Jason. I understand now why you would say sledging is good because "sometimes it's preferable to speak in a language everyone understands! ". So plain English equals sledging. Great!

And here was I thinking that of all blogsites, the TPS was the classiest because sledging each other was rarely on the agenda.

Of course in referring to "class" I was using one of the many meanings of the word other than "social class". Amazing how you just jumped to that conclusion.

Some of my rels were also first fleeters travelling under the decks, not on top of them. So what! Does that disqualify me from detesting ad hominers! Your characterisation of me is so shallow ..... how can you presume to arrogantly know my ancestry, upbringing or current status in life.

The "class" I was referring to is simply that quality which separates us from animals and enables humans to interrelate in other than a dog eat dog fashion .... you know, civilised.

Simply put, civilised people don't see sledging as an admirable quality like you do ..... bullying in any form is a low act.

If this is the view of a "pompous twat" then I'm happy to be one. There are many of us around.

But as I said earlier, no amount of ad hominemming will dissuade me from raising the issues such as I did with 2353 today, and DMW and ToM previously. IMHO, TPS is just not a site where unsubstantiated claims and smears should be the order of the day.

I will continue to research and think about what I write so that to the best of my ability it is accurate and truthful and fair. When I don't manage this, I expect that someone will question what I have said, preferably without abuse and bullying.  And in turn, I will do the same ..... reciprocated quality assurance.

Psyclaw

August 14. 2012 09:33 PM

jane

Marilyn, I think most of us would much prefer asylum seekers being treated decently and with dignity. Sadly, while they are still a convenient political truncheon, it's not going to happen.

However, if those taken to Nauru and Manus Island have their claims processed quickly, fairly and honestly and are settled here with the help they need, then it's a better option than what is currently happening.

It's not ideal, nor is it something to be proud of, but it's the best that can be done until Howard's poison wrt asylum seekers arriving by boat has been removed and there is bipartisan support for their humane treatment.

jane

August 14. 2012 09:33 PM

Jason

Psyclaw,
       Yeah Whatever!

Jason

August 14. 2012 09:46 PM

DMW

Psyclaw,
there is an element of pot and kettle in some of what you wrote.

I can completely understand from some of your interchanges why Jason (and probably others) can think "... you sound like a pompus twat!"  and I am sure there are times that he and others are correct in saying I too read like I am a pompous twat!"

In your psych type studies you may have come across propositions along the lines that it is very easy to see fault in others but often difficult to see our own.

DMW

August 14. 2012 09:51 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Jason, I’ve already “put up”

A few weeks ago I proposed a range of policy options that could potentially have acted as a deterrent, but which retained a sense of humanitarianism towards asylum seekers.

Several comments reflected favourably.

So don’t blame me if you weren’t paying attention, and don’t expect me to find those points again simply for your benefit!

Tom of Melbourne

August 14. 2012 10:06 PM

Trevor

Thanks for the article AA. It draws together some evidence of a turn which appears to be building momentum. On a related matter I am sure many here would have read Anthony Alanese's post today on The Drum,  good to see by the way an alternate to Reith and the IPA. Well it is worth  a quick scroll through the comments and note the similarity of many of the  "outraged, DEMAND ELECTION NOW" set. Same line "what's the point ALP woulldnt answer anyway".  The number of times this is used is spooky and I cannot accept they all thought that up independently. Not normally one for conspiracy theories but I have a hunch some instructions and talking points may have been sent out to some of the faithful.  

I may be naive but how common is this now that blogs are hijacked by parties/ vested interest groups that pose as interest, engaged members of the public.

Trevor

August 14. 2012 10:11 PM

DMW

via @jo1foster & @Tara_Moss
@BrionyJane: - Hilary Clinton calmly rips interviewer a new one http://twitpic.com/aj9677” I love her.

It is brilliant and one for those that pontificate upon the PM's handbags to think about.

DMW

August 14. 2012 10:23 PM

TalkTurkey

Nasking, Mr Big Bear,

Good to see you, hope you are well and happy. Your note lifts us too. But you know some of us have seen this really quite clearly - provided nothing truly untoward happens. It devolves around the nature of the leaders, the one a puff of straw, the other of something so rare that I have always written her name *J*U*L*I*A*. I don't mean she's a goddess, as Don Dunstan was not a god, but by the living Dog they are both godlike in the Sylvan sense to suit my image. What I do mean is they are both very special, but *J*U*L*I*A* is also very much alive.

I have never thought other than this, that provided the Government can run its full term, with no really bad stuff out of left field, we would win the 2013 election. I now believe we are in a position where if an election were called from now on, Labor would be in quite a strong position to fight it. We'd lose but we'd run it close. That has never been so before. Abbortt is lost in his own leaky little boat now, drifting off into the Arafura . . .

BTW I gave myself full marks on the outcome of the
AS Report. All I had to do to get 'em was to see *J*U*L*I*A* with the whip firmly in her hand and the LNP cowed into submission and PASSING THE BILL! and they WILL!

KHTAGH Grasshopper that was your scenario last thread wasn't it, (I am losing bits in this weird gerbil maze in here) where anyway the Labors came good and the Abborttians went bad and we won and we all lived happily ever after . . . Well YES! because after that I don't think I can mount this sort of effort again, but if we lost to Them I wouldn't want to live past that anyway. But DYWAT we're not going to lose. Why, simple, because we're going to win!

(DYWAT Don't You Worry About That. Smile  )

Come on the Guvnors. We're just halfway through the third quarter. We're still a few goals down, but we are winning every position.  Kick some visible goals now. Flaunt your achievements, they are worthy!

There are the big States in the hands of Vandals, Dog Alfighty, that ought to be enough to convince anybody less than a multimillionaire, and that, ironically, is the big breeze we will have in our favour in the last quarter. FEAR, of what an Abbortt Government would do.

[e.g. Could you keep paying the mortgage on your home if Sally lost her job now too? (heartbreaking but real  stuff.) It's happening in Queensland this very night!  Because of CAMPBELL NEWMAN!

If Newman is make-you-sick home brew,
lemme tell yez Folks,
Abbortt is wreck-your-health poison bootleg.
Don't do it. You really will be sorry.  


Better rest my eyes I think. Oh I'm cleared of infection, officially. Cool. (Paws crossed.)

Oh and jaycee is Zeus your Dog?

Cuppa, sweet please, ta Smile.

















1

TalkTurkey

August 14. 2012 10:34 PM

42 long

Why don't you small Pointscoring people who don't appreciate what this site has to offer just piss off. and do yourself and the rest of us a favour? Ge3ttingon with what really matters...
  Didn't Turnbull do a wonderful move today at QT to make a "statesman like speech" about our own home grown  art critic?
A good move on his part for the top job. A very nice speech!!
Albanese followed up suggesting the chamber was capable of "good" thoughts. occasionally. ( get that Tony?)
  It is pretty safe for Labour to promote Turnbull knowing that, even though it would guarantee their (LNP's) success in next years election) the LNP hate Turnbull so much that they will NEVER give him another chance at leadership. He (being a reasonable thinking man) is a threat to their Tea and Republican  Mad Right wing trending way of doing things that they have committed to and cannot retreat from. Abbott is increasingly becoming the "unknown factor". Since his promise of bringing on an early election appears to be a faint hope and the long drag to the full term election becomes accepted as what is going to happen , the outcome appears less certain. Gillards leadership is less under threat than Abbotts from the direction that matters most. That is from his own party. Time is running out for the LNP to make the critical decision.

42 long

August 14. 2012 10:37 PM

DMW

George Megalogenis ‏@GMegalogenis
Just back from two days in Canberra. Can't help but think that the weirdness must break soon. People are laughing openly at all sides.

DMW

August 14. 2012 10:49 PM

Psyclaw


42 Long

As I watched Mr Turnbull's impressive eulogy, I couldn't help but think there must have been many from his side quietly admiring him and comparing his warm speech with the crap that comes out of their leader's mouth. Chalk and cheese.

Psyclaw

August 14. 2012 10:50 PM

Tom of Melbourne

42 long, the motto of this site is ”Putting politicians and commentators to the verbal sword”

I think it only does about 40% of this (tops). I’m balancing it up a little, to keep it faithful to it’s motto.

Without some critical balance to the usual sycophancy from Ad Astra and his cronies** this place would be engaging in misleading advertising. But I don’t seem to get much thanks for this.

Tom of Melbourne

August 14. 2012 10:50 PM

Jason

42 long,
       It should have been a great speech by Turnbull he was talking about a family member.
Wouldn't have been to many coalition members based on that wanting him back in the top job!

Jason

August 14. 2012 11:04 PM

Psyclaw


DMW

Last week I listed some of your uncouth ad hominems.

I invite you to spend 5 minutes and do the same about me. That way we'll all know whether your "pot kettle" claim about me has legs or is just another ad hominem.

BTW I note that Jason @ 9.33pm is using verbatim the same cop out that you used last week, rather than offering any facts, defence, or explanation of the criticism I made of his support for sledging n  bullying.

Psyclaw

August 14. 2012 11:15 PM

jaycee

To hear tonight on lateline that worm, that filth, that low-bred piece of trash calling for an apology from the Prime Minister while he and his govt' when in power, denied to offer sympathy or an apology to the criminal deeds committed to the indigineous peoples of this country..AND to abuse the honesty of a dying man in Mr. Bernie Banto and offer no apology for his shameful words and now calls for redress to his offended nature....what a piece of dirt this man is....what a piece of horrible dirt....I spit on his name and his character!

jaycee

August 14. 2012 11:21 PM

DMW

Psyclaw,
there is a saying that goes something like Nobody likes a smartarse

I think that is totally wrong. In my experience most smartarses love themselves.

Your constant reference to others ad hominem's is smartarsery of the highest order and it appears that you are unable to see or accept any responsibility for your part in the whole stupidity.

Psyclaw, while I find many of your comments interesting and informative, there other comments that show a talent for finding fault in others that you often demonstrate yourself and they have wonderful way of twisting others words into something that was not intended or implied.

Psyclaw some of your comments are brilliant examples of covert and under the table ball grabbing. Many of those same comments appear designed to bait and trap and I find them distasteful and unbecoming.

DMW

August 15. 2012 12:43 AM

Miglo

Here's another con job from Mr Abbott.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCT76sqo0bI

Miglo

August 15. 2012 12:58 AM

paul walter

Someone had the wit to pin Uhlmann on the gruesome effort on 7-30 report desperately trying to slate blame back on the government over AS.
This wasn't defined in terms relative to "asylum seekers", too much humanisation. Instead it was offered in the nebulous terminology of something as nondescript as "border security".
It has become a race to tabloid bottombetween auntie and the once reliable SBS news.
Why? I kept asking my self. Misreporting rather than reporting is bad enough but to reduce news coverage to conscious lies and propagana is sinister.
Ps,Political Sword, cant you do some thing to make the codes more legible-at least have the letters stand apart?

paul walter

August 15. 2012 01:24 AM

Libbyx33

Hi everyone one at TPS Smile
Even though I'm a long-term watcher, I've only posted twice. Now, I'd like to say this...
I'm really disappoined at all the "fighting" going on here. Not that anybody can't defend themselves. But we're all adults and can have a discussion without all the nastiness, don't you think? Go to Andrew Bolt's website/blog if you want to fight. You'll be very welcome there, sadly.
L. x

Libbyx33

August 15. 2012 07:13 AM

Lyn

Today’s Links

The no-win situation, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless
Abbott is stuck with the Pacific Solution; if asylum-seeker boats keep coming in the face of such a policy he has no answer, he can't get an answer, he is finished. Gillard will get credit for trying while Abbott becomes just another whinger. Gillard lives to fight another day while Abbott is left with if-onlys an I-couldas
http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/

Tingle-ing Australians, Sheila Newman, Independent Australia
Tingle believes, that convicts seemed almost more inclined to die of starvation than to try to feed themselves by farming. Moreover, after the gold rush, Australian men got the vote and could run for parliament, whether or not they had property and, says Tingle, the quality of politicians declined compared to that when only people with property could vote. In these circumstances, politicians with poor manners came to dominate parliament and Australians therefore lost respect for their politicians
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

Houston panel offers a circuit breaker in regional asylum crisis , Sarah Davies, The Conversation
The panel has made 22 recommendations that, according to its terms of reference, attempt to provide a “circuit breaker”. It is hoped this will stop the passage of unsafe boats that has seen 604 people lose their lives since October 2009
theconversation.edu.au/houston-panel-offers-a-circuit-breaker-in-regional-asylum-crisis-8822

#87 A terrible, cynical, disingenuous news organisation Part 2- Bomb throwers, Uthers Say
This is part 2 of eight which gives a description of what takes place in that hour orchestrated by the Pontiff of the Fox “no spin zone” in combination with willing helpers as they launch an assault not only on John Stewart but on anyone who is seen as a threat to the agenda of the 1%. The absence of any “other” views on the program is addressed
http://utherssay.com/

So messed up, I want you here… Asylum Seekers and Expert Panels,
At 56 pages, the report is complex and dense. I’m not sure that the glib responses provided thus fair by the commentariat have been fair or reasonable. This is a space in which the commentators and analysts really need to pull their socks up and engage productively with the evidence. Until that happens, we’re going to be stuck in the Boo-Hooray model
onlythesangfroid.wordpress.com/.../so-messed-up-i-want-you-here-asylum-seekers-and-expert-panels-auspol-

Gillard Gambles It All On Asylum Seekers, Ben Eltham, New Matilda
The Government’s political tactics on this are pretty clear. With the Houston report in its back pocket, it can now use it to attempt to wedge the Coalition by moving to adopt all the policies the Coalition have have so long advocated. Should the Coalition support Labor’s moves to "resolve" the "impasse", as looks likely, the Government can say that its policies are bipartisan. Should the Coalition baulk at voting with the Government, for instance on the issue of the Malaysian agreement, Labor can accuse Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison of hypocrisy.
newmatilda.com/2012/08/14/total-reversal-labor

The moral calculus of exemplary detention Bernard Keane, Crikey
$900 million over four years for Manus Island, versus $80 million over four years for the Malaysian Solution. So much for the Liberals being the party of small government and ending waste and mismanagement. Recall, too, the ever-innumerate Scott Morrison, after ducking the question for more than a year, eventually used a catering firm to claim Nauru would cost a maximum of $203 million a year with a capital cost of $95 million.
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Aspects of asylum plan are tougher than the Pacific Solution, luiggi berrospi Law and Politics Blog
Ms Moylan told the Coalition joint party room today that this would be even tougher than the Howard government’s so-called Pacific Solution, amounting to the excision of Australia’s entire shoreline from its migration zone.
lawonlineau.wordpress.com/.../

Backflips and name-calling - trading blows over asylum seeker policy, Jon Faine, ABC
the Prime Minister had been prepared to do this at any time in the last four years... we've had 22,000 illegal arrivals, almost 400 illegal boats," says Mr Abbott. Jon points out that "illegal" is not a correct term. The Opposition Leader also says "If you're coming here wanting family reunion you're not an asylum seeker, you're a would-be migrant". Jon is also critical of this assessment.
blogs.abc.net.au/.../...-asylum-seeker-policy.html

JulianBurnside Deterrents and disincentives, Kurt Rudder, Don’t Believe all those Lies,  Critically Analyze
the alternatives are a life of real fear and persecution in Afghanistan or Pakistan, or a life of fear and hopelessness in Malaysia or Indonesia. When the alternative is a dangerous boat trip to a life of safety in Australia, only the timid will be deterred.
kurtrudder.blogspot.com.au/.../...errents-and.html

AS IT HAPPENED: PARLIAMENT
marathon six-hour parliamentary debate over legislation to revive offshore processing in Nauru and Papua New Guinea has adjourned processing in Nauru
au.news.yahoo.com/.../?utm_source

Why ask questions when you can just say no?, Anthony Albanese, ABC
So, instead of asking ministers about policies, Tony Abbott and the Noalition have trashed Question Time and interrupted proceedings with motions to suspend the House's order of business.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4195484.html

The right stuff: a renewed idealism, Phillip Blond, ABC
Everyone knows that starting a small business has gotten harder, but this is not just because you can't raise capital or because of the crushing burden of regulation. Rather, it has become almost impossible to acquire a sustainable market share because big business - which tends not to pay taxes and benefits from all manner of insider advantage - simply shuts small businesses out before they even begin.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4196702.html

Today’s Front Pages
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 15 August 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Lyn

August 15. 2012 08:13 AM

2353

I wonder how Albanese's "The Drum" piece (linked above thanks Lyn) can be put into a 30 second sound bite.  Used at every opportunity it would be powerful.

We could have a discussion on the necessity for the piece to be dumbed down at all - but there has been too much discussion on people's intellectual capability and "class" on this site recently anyway.

2353

August 15. 2012 08:33 AM

nasking

Thnx heaps to Lyn for the links. Cheers Ad, DMW and 2353.

A useful informative read. Strauss, the noble lie, Ayn Rand sigh…it’s the contemporary Repugnicans in all their slimey gear:

Mitt’s Choice
Ryan: a Reactionary Without Scruples
by ANDREW LEVINE
CounterPunch

www.counterpunch.org/.../

Stupidity, ethical egoism, corporate greed and religious fundamentalism have created a strange mutant…

a black hole at its centre

signifying, offering…nothing.

You’d think I was referring to Abbott.

N’

nasking

August 15. 2012 08:35 AM

nasking

Cheers TT.

nasking

August 15. 2012 08:36 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

August 15. 2012 08:44 AM

Psyclaw


DMW

"you are unable to see or accept any responsibility for your part in the whole stupidity."

After a pleasant night's sleep and in a calm state of mind, I respectfully ask you to read again the second paragraph in my 11.04 pm post, and act on it.

I believe that this is not a "smartarse" request, and that when you make sweeping derogatory and often crude statements about another, there is an ethical obligation to provide evidence.

I am confident you will find no examples of the crudities that have been directed at me.

IMHO long term, established members of this blogsite are not by virtue of their tenure here entitled to deliver crude ad hominems simply because their comments are questioned on the basis of content.



Psyclaw

August 15. 2012 08:46 AM

nasking



A big Hello to Nasking.   My head nearly bumped my computer with happiness Nasking , because I was so pleased to see you.

Lyn,
yer such a sweetie. And what a hard worker!
I will try to add something to the blog each day.

Jane & Gravel,
mny thnx for the greetings...I see you are both in fine form...as are 2353, TT and many others...telling it boldly as it is.

Ad,
I do believe you are one of the wisest and most informative, articulate posters in present day cyberspace. You should be read widely. The same goes for Tim Dunlop.

N'

nasking

August 15. 2012 08:46 AM

Psyclaw


Libbyx33

I have just read you comment.

I am entirely receptive to your views and am sensitive to what you have said. I am sure that your comments reflect the views of many regulars here.

As you are a long term reader at TPS you will be aware that I make frequent posts (the vast majority) of substance which I have attempted to research and state dispassionately.

But duly chastened by your remarks, I intend to concentrate on posts of that variety.

AA

My comment to Libbyx33 are FYI also.

Psyclaw

August 15. 2012 08:54 AM

nasking



Good to see Jason as feisty as ever. You, Psyclaw, Lady in Red and others certainly see thru the fog of lies, deceit and distortions put up by other commentors and darker forces in the MSM.

Well done.

N'

nasking

August 15. 2012 08:57 AM

Ad astra

Trevor
Thank you for your comment.  Among the ‘call an election’ comment on Anthony Albanese’s piece there was this: “…Abbott has brought on a mysoginist mentality. The outright derogatory verbal abuse levelled at the PM is not the work of a balanced statesman with a healthy respect for the indvidual.  Its all down hill now though, because people have worked him out."  People are waking up.

Ad astra

August 15. 2012 08:59 AM

Truth Seeker

Hi Aa, and Swordsters, just finished this little ditty for this very suject.

The Media

The conference called, the scrum was set, and the OB trucks plugged in
As the Journo’s and the camera crews got ready for the spin
A whirl wind tour of misinformation, slogans and downright lies
That attracts our illustrious media like our garbage attracts flies
And so they wait with baited breath to hang on every word
Hoping for a headline scoop, a hope they know.. to be absurd

Then the crowd is hushed as the Abbott and co step forward to the mics
And their Tony starts his diatribe complete with barbs and spikes
Designed for maximum effect to drive his message through
Riding roughshod over fact and truth to hoodwink me and you
And his slogan filled Invective keeps him confident and strong
While his minders look on nervously hoping nothing will go wrong

When his rambling finally ceased, he said “We’ll take your questions now”
And the usual suspects, cap in hand, begin to scrape and bow
Then a cub reporter fresh from uni and wet behind the ears
Asked a bold yet relevant question realising everybody’s fears
And the minders all looked panicked and the journo’s all looked shocked
And his front bench shifted nervously as the Abbott went off half cocked

He stammered and he stuttered, then said “Let me just say this”
But his response was incoherent, filled with naught but wind and piss
So he reverted to his tried and true and blamed the government
But the cub reporter asked again and the Abbotts brain was spent
Then the head began to wobble with the stare, adding its part
But the journo’s were distracted by the smell of his brain fart

So while Abbott bolted, Bishop stepped up, all prim and looking spruced
But her expression really said it all.. “I’ve just been verbally goosed!”
Then the mincing poodle took the stage, a fire in his tummy
With nostrils flared and eyes ablaze…. he spat another dummy
Then Hockey sought to join the fray, his large jowls all a-quiver
Stating “Lower tax and interest rates you know we will deliver.”

But the cub piped up so loud and clear asking “How’s that to be done?”
But because of the impertinent cub, they were no longer having fun
So the conference ended and all the pollies quickly walked away
And the journo’s left to write their tripe for the headlines the next day
While reporters smiled into their cameras, saying “back to the studio.”
And the morning anchors lauded them, then returned to their spin promoting show.

And the next days headlines in the papers read “Another Abbott win.”
Ignoring facts and truthfulness and promoting only spin
And the mainstream commentators all said……holding hands to hearts
That the Abbott’s surely got it all…. ignoring his brain farts
So the fifth estate said enough’s enough  and with minds of one accord
Tore down the media’s empires and put them to The Political Sword.

Cheers

Truth Seeker

August 15. 2012 09:00 AM

nasking


I wonder how Albanese's "The Drum" piece (linked above thanks Lyn) can be put into a 30 second sound bite.  Used at every opportunity it would be powerful.

2353,
I have alot of time for Anthony Albanese. Gutsy articulate compassionate down-to-earth passionate bloke. ALP.

N'

nasking

August 15. 2012 09:04 AM

Ad astra

DMW
What a nice clip of Hilary Clinton answering a silly journalist.

Mega’s comment confirms that even news-hungry journos are tiring of the political dialogue.

Ad astra

August 15. 2012 09:08 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Psyclaw

I love your posts they are a constant source of valuable information, you teach me something new every day thankyou.

Lyn

August 15. 2012 09:11 AM

Psyclaw


Nasking

Cheers.

Great to see you back here after your "rest".


Swordsters

MGrattan continues to present low quality work. Here is an email I sent to her after her I/V with FKelly an hour or so back:


"This morning you just said that the PM is being deliberately obtuse about telling what the time period of "advantage" the boat arrival refugees will be held for.

If you used a bit of research energy you would know that Angus Houston has publicly answered that question several times.

FYI he said words to the effect that  "the panel has ascertained that with the cooperation of the UNCR and NGOs it will be possible to make reasonable estimates of this time for the various groups, based on where their journey began".

Your continual sledging of the PM, especially when it is as unreasonable as your effort today, does you no credit."

Psyclaw

August 15. 2012 09:14 AM

Ad astra

Nasking
I see you are back in good form.  The Andrew Levine piece on Paul Ryan as Mitt Romney’s running mate is frightening.  I will save it for reference.

Ad astra

August 15. 2012 10:05 AM

Psyclaw

Lyn
Smile Smile Smile

Psyclaw

August 15. 2012 10:18 AM

nasking

Cheers Ad and Psyclaw.

Found this useful:

Islamic states set to suspend Syria from OIC

af.reuters.com/.../idAFBRE86H18C20120814

So many displaced.

As you expect with wars, conflict.
Sadly.

N'

nasking

August 15. 2012 10:21 AM

nasking


Truth Seeker,
top poem.

N'

nasking

August 15. 2012 10:58 AM

Truth Seeker

nasking, glad you liked it.

Cheers

Truth Seeker

August 15. 2012 11:03 AM

Ad astra

Folks
GOOD NEWS!

The tobacco companies have lost their High Court case against the Government's legislation for plain packaging of cigarettes.

Ad astra

August 15. 2012 11:09 AM

Ad astra

Truth Seeker
Great poem.  Was it generic?  Or did the presser really happen that way?  I could believe it did.

Ad astra

August 15. 2012 11:11 AM

DMW

I had an interesting and lighthearted conversation with Mega (and some others) last night around  his 'weirdness must break soon' tweet.

One of his responses hit a sweet spot

George Megalogenis ‏@GMegalogenis
@dmickweir My former colleagues in the press gallery laugh it off. But I'm willing to call it out: Stop the jog @TonyAbbottMHR

Stop the Jog
Get Tony out of his python squeeze Lycra so it may help in getting some blood flowing to his brain.

Ok it is a valid question to ask if Mr Abbott has a brain but we must give the benefit of doubt.

DMW

August 15. 2012 11:13 AM

Ad astra

Nasking
Thank you for your very kind remark, a great compliment from such an experienced and well informed contributor TPS.

Ad astra

August 15. 2012 11:29 AM

DMW

Turnbull's eloquence shows up the pitbull Gabrielle Chan @TheOz
NO, non, nyet. At least, not yet.
How many different ways can Tony Abbott say no? This bloke will have to get a little more constructive if he wants to be the prime minister.

http://goo.gl/oO7bp click on the google link to go the article

Another swallow portends the forthcoming summer.

DMW

August 15. 2012 11:30 AM

Truth Seeker

Ad, just a figment of my looney left imagination to emphasise the point, although based loosely upon past pressers and events.
I would have posted it a little earlier, but every time that I revisited the mental image of the look on Bishops face, I cracked myself up and had to take time out to re-gather my thoughts before continuing.
Hope you like the final reference "put them to The Political Sword"
I included that just for you.

Cheers

Truth Seeker

August 15. 2012 11:42 AM

Ad astra

Libbyx33
Your comment prompts me to once again make a plea for respectful comment here on TPS.  I too have noticed unnecessarily acerbic comments recently.  Such comments are unbecoming and unhelpful.

It has long been a rule here that we can disagree all we like with each other, but that ought to be done in a considerate way, free of personal abuse or innuendo.  Opinions backed by verifiable facts and logical reasoning are always acceptable, personal insults never are.

We have just a few who come here seemingly not to contribute meaningfully, but rather to give other bloggers here, or all of us, a poke in the eye, to inflame, to irritate, to rub us up the wrong way.  It’s childish but there it is!

When I see offensively personal remarks, as I did a couple of days ago, I delete them.  However, some of the remarks that appear here are not so offensive that deletion is required.  Frankly, I don’t have time to sit all day watching for such remarks.  All this week I have been busy with a myriad of other matters.  So I have to rely on the commonsense and courtesy of bloggers to avoid unpleasant comments.  

I have noticed that the ‘irritant’ bloggers sometimes evoke a quick response from others who would normally not respond angrily.  A ‘scrap’ begins and can go on over several comments.  This is not what we want here.  It is discourteous to those who come here for rational debate, and diminishes the site.

To the ‘irritants’, I say: “If you have nothing to offer but negativity, nothing but nastiness, nothing but provocation, nothing positive, nothing rational, please stay away and blog on a site where that is the norm.”

To those who have a tendency to respond in kind to such comments, please resist it.  The most powerful deterrent for ‘irritants’ is to totally ignore them.  To respond is to encourage more of their immature and discordant behavior.

Ad astra

August 15. 2012 11:43 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad & Everybody

Twitterverse for you.  

You will see there have been 41 Coalition MP’s speaking in Parliament on the Houston report.  MP’s still talking last night at 9.30pm.

there is another 31 been called in.  Word has it, they are not discussing the Asylum Seekers bill, but using the opportunity to abuse the Government

Bushfire Bill
Posted Wednesday, August 15, 2012 at 9:45 am

He’s a raving lunatic, win or lose, full of aggression and anger. He can’t handle any sort of criticism. He’s possessed by revenge- 41 speakers on a done deal piece of legislation? We, the taxpayers, are paying for this mega-gloat
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1376213

Gillard deserves credit for putting the saving of lives ahead of politics, Peter Hartcher
Saying ''yes'' to Gillard is driving the Coalition to distraction. It is saying it in the most ungracious way imaginable. Julie Bishop yesterday accused her of personal culpability for the deaths of hundreds of asylum seekers who have drowned in the unseaworthy boats of people smugglers.

The deal will not win Labor any new votes nor change the electoral perception of Gillard. But by neutralising the issue she will deprive Abbott of one of his favourite cudgels for Gillard-bashing at the next election.
www.smh.com.au/.../...politics-20120814-246uc.html

Think Big‏
High Court rules in favour of the Government. Woohoo #plainpackaging #auspol

Political Tragic
#abcnews24 Who-hoo Tobacco companies have to pay Govt. costs!!!

Janice Gill‏
Big tobacco loses High Court battle over plain packaging www.smh.com.au/.../...ackaging-20120815-247kz.html via @smh

Asylum debate drags on as the boats keep coming
But the Opposition looks determined to drag the debate on the amendments out for as long as possible, with MP after MP standing up in the House of Representatives last night to lambast the Federal Government and the Prime Minister's leadership

The Opposition says it will support the bill allowing asylum seekers to be sent to Nauru or Papua New Guinea, but the Government says another 32 Opposition MPs are still scheduled to speak this morning before a vote can be called.
au.news.yahoo.com/.../

Space Kidette‏
The LNP are not debating the issue. They are using the debating period to slag the govt. #auspol #asylumseekers

Matt Cowgill‏
Gittins: "One thing that gets me going is comfortably-off people who feel sorry for themselves" www.smh.com.au/.../...the-bank-20120814-246sp.html

Australian News‏
No 5-star treatment for refugees: Abbott: Asylum seekers should not expect even three-star trea... http://bit.ly/PW1NgG #ausnews #uavaus

National Times‏
Coalition must beware wacky ideas on foreign investment, writes Peter Costello www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120814-246sn.html

The Australian‏
Carbon, IR driving away global firms: GLOBAL companies are turning their backs on Australia out of frustration o... http://bit.ly/RN7PoL

Sam Henderson‏
#investing #smsf Energy bill - confusion is your enemy: SURGING energy bills might be difficu... http://bit.ly/Sk24ML #financialplanning

New boats arrive, new laws may apply
Meanwhile, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says asylum seekers who may be stuck in tents on Nauru under new laws to revive offshore processing cannot expect five-star or even three-star treatment
www.dailytelegraph.com.au/.../story-fncvk70o-1226450422346

Lyn

August 15. 2012 11:49 AM

Ad astra

DMW
What a classic article – everyone should read it.  The media is waking up to Abbott.

www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frgd0x-1226450415941

Ad astra

August 15. 2012 11:56 AM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
I read yesterday’s links in bed last night on the iPad, and have almost finished this morning’s and your Twitterverse.  Thank you for such great reading.

I noted in the Twitterverse a Peter Hartcher article that fosters the view that even Hartcher is waking up.

I have to go out now to visit Web Monkey.

Truth Seeker
Thanks.

Ad astra

August 15. 2012 11:58 AM

LadyInRed

ToM

I am with Jaycee and Jason. In my mind principled people rarely have to resort to name calling and trying to put people down to get their point accross. I look forward to your meta-analysis of the pros and cons of the latest AS policy.

Ad astra puts his views out there for others to comment on, you can agree or dissagree, and that takes courage. So, for you to attempt to tear it down really reflects rather badly on you.

Ad

I loved seeing Kohler's article. Lyn I had a chuckle also.

I knew I could feel the tide turning for Julia. If Abbott keeps kicking and shouting re the AS policy trying to force Julia to eat humble pie it will work against him. The few die hard "election now mob" might eat it up, but I think the general electorate know this deal makes niether side look great. But it has made Julia look like a person who is willing to compromise and take the flak - a formidable plus for her. And for those people who value strategy and savvy politcial moves, will also see that as a plus for her, she has also played her cards well.

And for the fence-sitters - it has left them coughing and spluttering. Brilliant.

LadyInRed

August 15. 2012 12:00 PM

Michael

"Over the last two days we have witnessed the public humiliation of a Government that is too arrogant, too stubborn and too stupid to acknowledge its abject policy failings," she said.

Julie Bishop is apparently road-testing some of her lines for when she writes her 'insider's history' of the Howard government.

Pick any two days that embrace, oh, I don't know... "weapons of mass destruction", "children overboard", "ministerial code of conduct", "Australian Wheat Board", "Workchoices"...

A woman whose highest claim to wider recognition is a "death stare" and the ability to shape her hands into claws and thus simulate an alley cat, has something of a nerve in applying the word 'stupid' anywhere beyond the safety of her bathroom and its forgiving mirror.

Michael

August 15. 2012 12:15 PM

nasking


Ad,
that is good news.

Meant to say, you can all find me @

www.facebook.com/nick.king.1232760?ref=tn_tnmn

Lyn & Ad,
I've been going thru some of the beaut links provided and putting them up on Facebook. Thnx for all your effort.
N'

nasking

August 15. 2012 12:33 PM

Lyn

Hi Nasking

I love your page have just been there quickly will go back later for another read.

I asked you to be my friend I hope you say yes.

Thankyou for posting TPS stuff on facebook another great way to get the message out there.

Brilliant having you here Nasking.

CheersSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

August 15. 2012 12:51 PM

LadyInRed

Lyn thanks for the links.

The Jon Faine audio of TAbbott being put in his place is well worth a listen. Jon calls him on saying "illegal" and he calls him on his refusing the negotiate when Nauru and Manis where on the table at the last sitting of parliament, and he calls him on the fact that he refuses to acknowledge that Malayasia is now a viable option albeit not as it stands. Jon is totally in charge! TAbbott is flumaxed and you can hear him trying to find ways to bring in his slogans, in his pauses followed by a slogan you can hear his inadequacy in dealing with a commentator not on his side, a commentator not feeding him with chances to sloganeer. It's quite a long piece but TAbbott is in the last 8 minuted or so. He really is not all that bright, and his realiance on the media to feed him has made him lazy as well as stupid.

LadyInRed

August 15. 2012 01:08 PM

nasking

Cheers Lyn,
of course I'll be your friend. As ever. A privilege.
Great page, links and pics BTW.

N'

nasking

August 15. 2012 01:13 PM

nasking



TAbbott is flumaxed and you can hear him trying to find ways to bring in his slogans, in his pauses followed by a slogan you can hear his inadequacy in dealing with a commentator not on his side

LadyInRed,
I've noticed Abbott is really struggling these days. Would have to have the Coalition worried. My wife noticed this head shaking, bobbing the other day.

I wonder if Abbott has an illness...or is showing now more and more he is out of his depth?

N'

nasking

August 15. 2012 02:25 PM

Patriciawa

N' Re Abbott's head shaking.  He has been taking a thumping from Julia lately - maybe he's trying to clear his head? Recurrence of symptoms of his being chronically punch drunk?  Were they wearing safety helmets in his boxing hay days?

Patriciawa

August 15. 2012 02:25 PM

TalkTurkey

Dog, Alrighty!

I went to bed at Lateline time, haven't had much energy today - sort of caught up with by what's happened to me - went back to bed, wake up by 1PM, and there's about half a War and Peace written here, by old people, new people, Left people, You people! I wish I were a better reader (I write better than I read, weird) ut all with goodwill, it is a delight to see your gravatars and hear your thoughts, and Upbeat at last!

We're gonna make it Folks, you must set your jaws to the future and determine that WE WILL WIN (Venceremos!) and They shall not Pass! [NO PASARAN!] They're about the only Spanish I know, but they are noble, the warcry of Spanish freedom fighters, it is our job to be worthy of those fine brave defiant cries. Our fight is different, but it is deadlier still in its own way, the fight for the future of this nation and in fact the future of Life on Earth as far as any one of us can ever hope to influence that. The one thing that we can and must and will do: Help, to the best of our ability, to ensure the return of this best of Governments, and prevent by the dedication of our lives'
time the election of this despicable Opposition.

QT On. One Lib booted. Labor creaming them, LCPs bouncing off the walls. They understand at last that they are, shall I say it politely, buggered.

Labor totallly confident. We have a YEAR! Abborttians totally flipping out. Labor's achieved it all now, its whole agenda. Plus the bonus of total victory re Tobacco Plain Packaging, Congratulations on a world first Labor!

Be PROUD. I am.

  

TalkTurkey

August 15. 2012 02:26 PM

KHTAGH

Lyn

I would like to thank you for the work you put in on your links.

Nasking
head shaking, bobbing, when you add this to his ape like strut that looks like his head is about to fall off, one wonders if he has a serious case of "Jelly spine"
No reflection on anyone else here who like me has a less than agreeable backbone.

I think that any day soon there will be a new competitive sport hitting the brain waves of our so called professional reporters/commentators.

       "Who can trip up the Whinging Wing Nut the best"

I can see some fantastic YouTube compilations coming soon.

I'm with a lot of people here, Lyn, LadyinRed there is a definite feeling that he has over cooked his goose, a bit like when we were at school & the real cool person starts to lose favor & slides into obscurity. I think it is gathering pace too. Here is hoping Swordsters.

KHTAGH

August 15. 2012 02:41 PM

Psyclaw


Watching QT.....the member for Wannan???, a Colonitionist just asked a most original question of the PM.

"why put on the carbon tax when the cost of living is so high?"

Of course the PM may have heard that question once before ..... or twice  ..... or three times..... or fifty three times.

Any way, it was a generous prompt for her to recite again the various compensations.

AS TT Comrade said above, "Labor is creamin em"

Psyclaw

August 15. 2012 03:07 PM

Patriciawa

Sorry, I see I've somehow left off the other half of my comment just above to 'N.  Let me try again!

Re Abbott's head shaking.  He has been taking a thumping from Julia lately - maybe he's trying to clear his head? Recurrence of symptoms of his being chronically punch drunk?  Were they wearing safety helmets in his boxing hay days?

Wouldn't that explain his reaction, going off half cocked, as Truth Seeker so brilliantly describes for us?

He stammered and he stuttered, then said “Let me just say this”
But his response was incoherent, filled with naught but wind and piss
So he reverted to his tried and true and blamed the government
But the cub reporter asked again and the Abbotts brain was spent
Then the head began to wobble with the stare, adding its part
But the journo’s were distracted by the smell of his brain fart


Every line of that poem is a true description of an Abbott press conference.  That it's also so well rhymed is a plus. Well done, Truth Seeker!

Patriciawa

August 15. 2012 03:54 PM

Truth Seeker

Patriciawa, thank you so much for your kind words, and quoting  from my poem, I greatly appreciate your input.

Cheers

Truth Seeker

August 15. 2012 04:01 PM

nasking


KHTAGH,
like the jock at school who is loathed after awhile because the older grades realise he's kooky and a big dobber.

Patricia,
I was wondering if Abbott was showing signs of a nervous system illness...but perhaps it's just anxiety?

As for being punch drunk...I agree Gillard has got some goodies in lately...and some of the others on the govt side.

I noted Julie Bishop had that rigor mortis grin today in parliament...always a sign things are not going well for the Coalition.

Garrett brought up Lib Pyne's desire to sack 40 thousand teachers. Madness!
Layoffs have caused big problems in America.
He should remember teachers are needed to keep classes running, for playground duty, assessment, excursions...and coaching sports and other extra curricula activities.

Pyne has lost the plot these days...loopy Abbott and the Republican and Tory austerity measures crowd have had a deletarious effect.

N'

nasking

August 15. 2012 04:29 PM

42 long

Pyne looked as if he had been caught on the hop, by Garrett. What's with this great desire to sack everybody and reduce taxes? In Qld it is becomming obvious that this sort of thing reduces confidence and people stop spending and a recession is created> That's how it is done.
  Abbott looks BAD. Perhaps it is his nature showing. What a malevolent spirited person! Awkward, devoid of truth and any concept of decency.
  They had to line up  one after the other,and rub her (Julia's)nose in the catshit and BISHOP went across the line really with blaming all the nasty aspects of the boat episode on her, personally. Their aim MUST be to totally destroy her That's GOT to be the end result, and it is totally demeaning of them ( The LNP). If Julia shows the stoicism she has so far they will end up looking mean and she will be the victor.
   In any case, there is a change of a kind with the AS situation as of now. Perhaps not a complete finality though. The LNP are close to psychotic about this. I can understand that to a point, but you do have to move on. People are going to ask are you going to PASS it or not? The carry on can look a little petulant, at that stage.
   The Tobacco  court case was a great end to a SAGA, Nice to see the costs passed on to the BIG tobacco mob.
   Why do the LNP accept funding from them? Thats's one of the main reasons I would not vote LNP.

42 long

August 15. 2012 05:45 PM

2353

Quite a good day really.

First - Truth Seekers poem reminded me of an occasion in the 70's or 80's where Bjelke-Petersen at one of his regular "chook feeding" sessions (press conferences) was asked the usual tame questions and batted them to the keeper, then a reporter from the Triple Zed (the "really" alternate Student Union owned radio station) asked a question.  Bjelke -Petersen didn't answer it - so the Triple Zed reporter asked the question something like another 52 times before an stumbling response came along.

Some claim it was the beginning of the end for Bjelke-Petersen.  Hopefully the press conference you have so elegantly turned into a poem is the beginning of the end for someone else who doesn't seem to be able to think on his feet.

Second - The plain packaging for tobacco legislation survived its high court challenge.  That another box ticked by the current Government.

Third - it was a public holiday in Brisvegas City.  That is cause for celebration in itself Cool

2353

August 15. 2012 06:10 PM

Gravel

Truth Seeker

Absolute great pome.  I have never been able to listen to one of his pressers, but from other peoples descriptions of them it sounds like you got it right.

Well done Nichola Roxon and Labor for getting the great result in the High Court.  Huge bonus that the tobacco companies have to pay all the costs.  Another World first for Australia.

I have everything crossed that the Regional Solution will work and no more unfortunate people will drown.  It is disappointing that this had to be done, but if we can get onto more positive things in the political arena it will have all been worthwhile.

I couldn't believe how boring the questions were from the Nopposition today.  It was like they were giving Labor 'dorothy dixers'.  Are they running out of puff?  

Gravel

August 15. 2012 06:11 PM

jaycee

I had to, in principle, agree with Wilkie tonight when he said a better solution should have been found. I don't think there are many here in TPS. who would embrace the oppositions idea of the accepted policy. In an ideal world there could and I am certain ; WOULD have been a better solution put up by the Labor Govt'. But, sadly, in our Aust' of today, there is a hardness of heart and a selfishness of sympathy to any refugee policy.
A regional solution is, of course, the end game and I truly believe we will get there one day, however, at this moment, in this hung parliament, with this opposition led by this alpha male we are lucky we can even dream of a regional solution.
I do not doubt that there will be diplomatic discussions before the next election to steer us in such a humanist path.
Let us optimistically "shoot" for that goal....
One cannot let the subject go without remarking on the strength of character of the Prime Minister to take the blows and yet steer the ship with a firm hand despite the embittered jealousy from the opposition.

jaycee

August 15. 2012 06:15 PM

2353

Jaycee - agree completely with your sentiments.  And in a perfect world there would be no need for anyone to seek asylum.

2353

August 15. 2012 06:29 PM

TalkTurkey

This tickled Jason Obelix, who noticed my tweet in response to :

Latika Bourke ‏@LatikaQT (who said)

Plibersek has prop. This is what they will look like she says, showing the house a drab plain pack. #qt

I replied

@LatikaQT A plain drab pack. Like the ABC political experts .

TalkTurkey

August 15. 2012 06:53 PM

TalkTurkey

Cripes, Truth Seeker, I am in awe!

That is one hellova pome - and yes it's the last line I like best of all.

Because I think The Political Sword is as important as that too.

We HAVE shifted the 4th Estate. We ARE doing it day by day. We WILL have our way. The 5th Estate is where the truth is to be found now, if anywhere. And where the investigative spirit drives the work. As in Independent Australia. Dog be praised.

TalkTurkey

August 15. 2012 07:24 PM

Marilyn

That was not a debate about anything but punishing innocent people.

Houston is a trained killer,  he has no idea about victims.

Marilyn

August 15. 2012 07:45 PM

LadyInRed

jaycee @6:11

I agree. The PM is amazing in her stoicism on this. TAbbott only ever lets his MP's speak to give the PM a hammering. As Albo pointed out in his article on The Drum MP's on the coalition side never ask any questions about policy, how are we to know what they stand for, how do we know they are accross any of the issue's when all they are allowed to say is NO. The only questions they ever ask are tactical ones that ultimately lead the opposition leader, or his attack dog Piney the Whiney, to request a suspension of standing orders?

Watched The Drum tonight and Crabb and some economist from The Australian making some very very dumb comments on Plain Packaging, like persecuting (yep persecuting) big tobacco?. But then Profesor (sorry I forget his name) was brilliant and gave them both a bit of a dressing down on the reality of the harm that tobacco causes. He was very good.

Go Nicola!

LadyInRed

August 15. 2012 08:40 PM

Jason

Marilyn,
       Like it or not compromise as a politician comes with the job.
6 weeks ago the "Greens" had a chance to compromise they decided that they can't because they are a party of activists, who have this all or nothing attitude well you got one of your two positions nothing!

It's no use calling Huston a killer or sheeting home blame to others, you dealt yourselves out of the debate so no use complaing now.

Jason

August 15. 2012 08:48 PM

Jason

2353,
    "Former Premier Anna Bligh is moving to Sydney with her family following her husband’s acceptance of a job in the New South Wales public service.

Greg Withers has been appointed to a senior executive position in Arts NSW and will start in early September


Read more: www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120815-248y5.html

Jason

August 15. 2012 09:05 PM

jane

I spit on his name and his character!

Which would be fine if he had a character to spit on, jaycee.

I had to, in principle, agree with Wilkie tonight when he said a better solution should have been found.

Agreed, jaycee. And in all fairness, I think this is what ToM and Marilyn find so frustrating as both have been passionate advocates for better treatment of asylum seekers.

Unfortunately, in the current poisonous political climate, it's impossible to have a reasoned debate and I think they need to recognise this.

I'm sure all Swordsters also agree that a far better solution should be possible, but it can only happen when all parties negotiate an agreement in good faith. And there's sod all of that from one side of politics.

And let's not forget that the electorate has to be carried along the path of tolerance as well.

But I think we may have made a start. At least I hope so.

jane

August 15. 2012 09:05 PM

LadyInRed

I just got an email from Sarah Hansen-Young of the Greens telling me they are working hard to limit the damage :

We're working in Parliament today to limit the damage that these laws can do to refugees by putting a time limit on detention, but even if we can limit the damage, these laws are cruel and they will not save lives.

My response. The time to have worked with the government to limit the damage has long past.....you blue it. Go away.

LadyInRed

August 15. 2012 09:22 PM

Truth Seeker

2353, I am so glad that my poem reinvigorated such a vivid memory, I do wish that mine (memory) was that good.

Gravel, thank you for your kind words, it is great to know that there are so many great thinkers/bloggers here at TPS that appreciate ones efforts.

TT, high praise indeed from a master himself.
I am so glad that you liked the last line. It was always going to finish thus, as it was written specifically to go with this article to emphasise the importance of TPS and its many contributors.
I must admit that the the line that I enjoyed writing the most, came to me just as I started breakfast this morning. I stopped eating and grabbed my macbook to write it down, leaving my cereal to go soggy.

But her expression really said it all.. “I’ve just been verbally goosed!”

I have chuckled all day at that mental image.

Thanks again and Cheers all.

Truth Seeker

August 15. 2012 09:27 PM

DMW

And I dips me lid to two very fine representatives Melissa Parke (Lab) and Judi Moylan (Lib) who both abstained from voting on that legislation which has been introduced with undue haste.

Legislation proposed for political imperative will come back to bite you on the bottom.

DMW

August 15. 2012 10:05 PM

jaycee

I have to admit after reading Mike Kelly's piece on The Drum, I feel the path to the regional solution will be an inevitability if Labor regain office next election.
The "putting to bed" of the (unspeakable) issue and the victory against the ciggie Moloch, gives the progressive side of politics room and oxygen to cane the spielers on the opposite side of the house for the next six months at least. One can feel a confidence and direction unswerving within the party faithful. What with the upcoming Ashby/Jackson swindles staining the already red-faced Liberal Party AND their rising fear that "their man" may actually be a "pup" they have been sold and coupled to Murdoch and the three mining husketeers(corny)may not bring them good publicity.
Let's face it...take away the screaming shock-jocks, the rabid, dying MSM and their troupe of blogging trolls, who with any decency would want to be publicly associated with them!!?
Yes, I think we may be on a winner.  

jaycee

August 15. 2012 11:32 PM

DMW

julianburnside ‏@JulianBurnside
A person killed by Taliban is as dead as a person who drowns. But this is not about drownings. It's about votes

DMW

August 16. 2012 06:51 AM

Lyn

Today’s Links

Busting the asylum seeker myths, Marian Dalton, The Conscience Vote
These dreadful speeches are replete with smugness, scorn and electioneering – but the worst, and most dangerous aspects are the lies. Every single speaker is lying, without shame and without consequences. Parliamentary privilege protects them. They can say whatever they like, and get away with it.
consciencevote.com.au/.../

Springing to action: Parliament’s back,Tim Viney, Upstart
For starters, July saw the implementation of the carbon tax, which hasn’t yet led to financial Armageddon, presumably to the dismay of Tony Abbott. While it is clearly still too early to tell how the carbon price will affect our economy, the fact is that it’s here now, so the Coalition has to deal in realities rather than conjecture and fear-mongering
www.upstart.net.au/.../

Who Is The Prime Minister Again?, Turn Left 2013
Gillard and PM? And? While some media outlets to this day continue to refer to the Opposition as “the Government”, that is understandable, they were Government once upon a time, however, Tony Abbott has NEVER been a Prime Minister, this is a mistake that should never be made
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../who-is-the-prime-minister-again

Ignoring the Gillard-bashing , Gary Sauer-Thomson, Public Opinion
Lets be clear about one thing: the Houston panel does not think the solution to the asylum lies in the Coalition's three ponged policy of Nauru, temporary protection visas and turning the boats back. The panel talk in terms of an integrated package: in which Australia must deal with the wider region and that includes processing in nations that have
www.sauer-thompson.com/.../ignoring-the-gi.php

Bolting like lightning from the Galileo Movement, Graham Readfern, Independent Australia
Monckton has been pushing his various conspiratorial talking points around the globe for years. To add to his insistence that climate change is some sort of socialist plot to take over the world, Monckton has recently taken to questioning the legitimacy of President Barack Obama’s birth certificate in a Tea Party-sponsored
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

What have the Romans ever done for us?Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery
More on what it means here This has been on the drawing board since 1990! Yeah thats right. So how may Prime Ministers has it taken to finally get this done? Hawke, Keating, Howard and Rudd. 22 years!!! And between them none of them managed to get this done! Enter one female PM. Done in first parliamentary session.
ashghebranious.wordpress.com/.../

The day the Gillard government died – an update, The Piping Shrike
The Pacific Solution stopped neither the boats nor the deaths at sea, so there is no reason to suppose its revival will either. But then the report was not about policy, but a political fix-up, It’s why we have something for everyone; Nauru, Malaysia and increased intake, all slightly undermining each other as policy, but at least all the parties can give a little, get a little.
www.pipingshrike.com/.../...nt-died-an-update.html

The flight from Fairfax: who’s leaving the building? Crikey
In June, Fairfax CEO Greg Hywood announced a dramatic plan to shed 1900 jobs in a bid to slash the company’s costs. Fairfax is accepting voluntary redundancies until August 24, but it’s already clear an enormous amount of talent — and experience — is leaving the company. Crikey is compiling a list of editorial staff who have announced or confirmed their departure,
www.crikey.com.au/.../

For pity's sake: a practical plan to end the impasse, Mick Kelly, ABC
Abbott claims that the Coalition is motivated by principle. They would not agree to send people to a country which is not a signatory to the Refugee Convention. This despite the fact that during the Howard years they were happy to use Nauru when it was not a party to the convention, and were prepared to tow boats back to Indonesia, currently a non-signatory state.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4199988.html

Back to the start on asylum seekers, Greg Jericho, The Drum
The Liberal Party will likely do nothing to allow a Malaysia deal to go ahead, nor change its mind about turning back boats. It will ignore the "integrated ... agree in whole" aspects of the policy, and instead continue to pretend the report endorses its position. A look at some of the newspaper reports suggests this line will get a favourable hearing.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4198280.html

Self-funded retirees are kidding themselves - and us, Ross Gittins
The so-called self-funded - the Howard government's favourite charity - enjoy all these perks. But they don't seem to realise that, the more successful they are with their begging bowl, the less true their claim becomes
www.rossgittins.com/.../...tirees-are-kidding.html

SInce the carbon tax started-  Edition 7, Stephen Koukoulas, Market Economics
In most instances, there almost certainly is no relationship with carbon pricing. This exercise is an attempt to put some much needed context to the misguided debate in some quarters about how the carbon price will impact on the economy.
http://www.marketeconomics.com.au/blog

Hard-headed politics: ask the  right experts and you’ll get the answers you want , Bronwyn Hinz, The Conversation
Abbott immediately dismissed the bulk of report’s recommendations. The problem for the Opposition leader was that the panel did not wholesale share his pre-existing views, and was therefore obviously wrong. The Greens likewise brushed off the experts’ central recommendations without detailed consideration.
theconversation.edu.au/hard-headed-politics-ask-the-right-experts-and-youll-get-the-answers-you-want-8820

Body blow to the merchants of doubt: High Court decision upholds plain packaging, helps reverse one part of the neoliberal war on regulation , Watching the Deniers
It’s worth noting that Institute of Public Affairs has been working hard to undermine public support for these laws indulging in its usual campaign of saturating the media with op-ed pieces and the like. The “meme” they’ve run with is protecting us from “the nanny state”:
watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/.../body-blow-to-the-merchants-of-doubt-high-court-decision-upholds-plain-packaging-

Blowouts? No. The NBN is very much on track, Renai LeMay, Delimeter
NBN Co fails on target rollout,” wrote The Australian newspaper. “NBN hopeless behind targets: Lib MP”. “NBN returns are far off.” The Sydney Morning Herald’s coverage was along the same lines. “NBN costs blow out by billions,” it reported. And even the normally conservative Financial Review newspaper and ABC Online sites were getting in on the action. “NBN Co confirms billion-dollar cost blowout,” wrote the ABC. And in one day the AFR published half a dozen articles in a row, all with headlines heavily critical
delimiter.com.au/.../

Election Speeches
Each election, Prime Ministerial candidates lay out their parties’platforms in campaign speeches. These speeches are more than just historical records; they tell us about national concerns and political obsessions, wars and drought, industry and society. They speak to– and in some cases, exploit – our aspirations and our fears. We’ve collected speeches by successful and unsuccessful candidates from every election from 1901 right up to the present day.
http://electionspeeches.moadoph.gov.au/

Today’s Front Pages
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 16 August 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Lyn

August 16. 2012 07:02 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

August 16. 2012 07:16 AM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
I have a very early start today, so I’ll leave reading your links until I return.  They look interesting, as usual.

Nasking
Thank you for giving us the link to your Facebook page and using it to publicize links on TPS.

Now we can see the real Nasking.  When we see the Big Bear it will evoke an lovely image of you.

Folks
Thanks for your overnight comments; I’ll read them later.

Ad astra

August 16. 2012 07:48 AM

Psyclaw


Jaycee

Well said. I think you have summed it up.

"take away the screaming shock-jocks, the rabid, dying MSM and their troupe of blogging trolls"

It is only by exposing these three groups that a relatively informed democracy can be maintained/developed.

Psyclaw

August 16. 2012 08:06 AM

Michael

It will eventually dawn on Abbott and Morrison that, in purely political terms, they have been done over by Julia Gillard on the issue of the Australian Federal Government's policy towards refugees.

They're crowing so hard about Nauru and Manus Island that they haven't thought at all hard about the dominoes yet to fall.

For a start, no TPVs, and no validation of the 'turning back the boats' on the high seas as anything but hollow chestbeating.

The scenes described as "gloating" in Parliament yesterday as Coalition speaker after speaker stood to lambast the PM and Labor displayed for all to see the Petri dish shallowness of the composite intellect of the Coalition.

One happily described 'necessary asylum seeker policy response' as using an "iron fist". I wonder if he knows the fascist branding of that phrase in contemporary Europe? (Of course he's heard it! Possibly even stiffened his... spine at the thought of it.)

The Coalition have just got on board a boat, a boat that will either see the 'threat' of Nauru and Manus Island (stack those up against a midnight knock on the door from the Taliban sometime) actually deter asylum seekers - issue off the table for whacking Labor; or fail to do so - issue of failed Coalition policy on the table.

Beyond the possible immediate developments regarding Nauru and Manus Island, the longer term development of a series of regional responses and actions to handle the passage of refugees through our shared region will require an Australian Federal Government to actively participate IN the region.

And that, in the longer term, will be a victory for this nation, drawing us off our own island of thinking; for the region, with Australia having to make, and thus inevitably benefiting from closer person to person contacts; for refugees no longer forced into a blocked and crowded tunnel the 'world' outside each section of it wishes to deny; and for anyone who believes that people can do good for no other reason than that it assists others.

None of these ideas or potential developments seem to have occurred to Abbott and his crowing gloaters. They wouldn't. To even think beyond triumphalism has always been beyond Conservatives.

Michael

August 16. 2012 08:31 AM

jaycee

On The Drum, Jonathon Green asks: why aren't Australians funding an "institute of thought"?....They are, Jonathon..it's called : "The Bottle'o"!

jaycee

August 16. 2012 08:47 AM

jaycee

Excellent article by John Pilger over on Independant Aust".."The Chosen and the Unchosen"...devastating! All the more pertinant when one reads of the victimisation of Albert Namatjira. There is a almost forgotten book by Joyce Blatty (a sth aust)called ; "Wanderer Between Two Worlds"...although I remember it as being a "soft landing" on the racist treatment of Mr. Namatjira, you could not help but be outraged at the treatment he received from the public and the authorities.
An "informed" read.

jaycee

August 16. 2012 09:21 AM

jaycee

Interesting we have Mal Fraser and others calling for the long overdue inquiry on our entry into the Iraq War.
It's about time the "little smear" was called to answer a coupla' quest's on THAT sub'.

jaycee

August 16. 2012 09:26 AM

Psyclaw

Michael

Spot on.

And it's great that the legislatiion will be through in less than 80 hours after the report was released.

What a waste of parliament's time this debate has been.

To a person, the opposition speakers have all used their time to recite gloats about how their policy has been belatedly followed, and to abuse the government....... virtually no discussion of the bill per se other than more blah blah blah about tpvs n tow backs, both of which Houston disendorsed.

As JG explained on Monday, the package contained many ideas from all parties' policies (which had already been debated) and a few newies(like the family renewal disallowance) which are unremarkable and uncontested.

The opposition has used the debate as an abuse of process, just as with the 60+ SSOs asa forum for abuse.

As you point out Michael, whilst doing this they have not put in the work to understand just where all of this is taking them....... Up the garden path n over a cliff.

Psyclaw

August 16. 2012 09:26 AM

Tom of Melbourne

” It will eventually dawn on Abbott and Morrison that, in purely political terms, they have been done over by Julia Gillard on the issue of the Australian Federal Government's policy towards refugees.

Well, that’s just marvellous isn’t it? It’s seen as a great policy as long as the government has won a political point.

Tom of Melbourne

August 16. 2012 09:27 AM

Tom of Melbourne

” It will eventually dawn on Abbott and Morrison that, in purely political terms, they have been done over by Julia Gillard on the issue of the Australian Federal Government's policy towards refugees.

Well, that’s just marvellous isn’t it? It’s seen as a great policy as long as the government has won a political point.

Tom of Melbourne

August 16. 2012 09:28 AM

jaycee

You know..I hate to sound vulgar, but one has to admit ; If the IPA. had a tounge wide and long enough and the corrupt capitalist corporations had a sphincter big and deep enough, then between the two it would have to be a marriage made in heaven!

jaycee

August 16. 2012 09:30 AM

Psyclaw

family renewal= family reunion

Psyclaw

August 16. 2012 09:34 AM

Jason

ToM,
   Can you please put up the submisson that you made To Houston's pannel? or are you just making a political point?

Jason

August 16. 2012 09:45 AM

Tom of Melbourne

Shorter ALP Policy…“Our policy of off shore processing and mandatory detention, and sending desperate people to Nauru is nicer than yours”

Tom of Melbourne

August 16. 2012 10:06 AM

Jason

ToM,
   No doubt reports such as this will gain a lot of sympathy for the assylum seekers!

"A GROUP of asylum seekers rescued from a leaky boat has allegedly used aggression to force a merchant vessel them to take them to Australia instead of Singapore."

www.news.com.au/.../story-fndo4eg9-1226451444495

Jason

August 16. 2012 10:19 AM

Tom of Melbourne

Jason, governments are entitled to be reminded of their duplicitous history in policy making. The history of this government on this policy is as slimy as it gets.

It sought to straddle both the redneck vote and the moral high ground in 2007 when Rudd advocated both “turning back the boats” and closing the detention centres.

Gillard politicised the issue as Shadow Immigration Minister with her carping “another boat, another policy failure”, which arguably pressed the previous government into more extreme policies.

Then in government we have-
•  The East Timor Solution (made on the run)
•  The Malaysian Solution (illegal, ill-conceived)
•  No Policy
•  The Pacific Solution (Mark 2)


This government has been as guilty as the opposition in their race into the slime, but people here just ignore that.

It’s the politics of the weak willed.

Tom of Melbourne

August 16. 2012 10:24 AM

Jason

Have a good day sword folk!
I am going to attempt to be a civilised member of society and give to the greater good, although if most knew where it came from they would be horrified.

Today I give "Anti D" donation 150  

Jason

August 16. 2012 10:36 AM

DMW

ToM,
Gillard politicised the issue as Shadow Immigration Minister with her carping “another boat, another policy failure”, which arguably pressed the previous government into more extreme policies.

Howard politicised the issue and Labor took it hook line and sinker. Ms Gillard as Immigration spokesperson was possibly the one that took the biggest chunk of the bait.

Howard's history on the issue is consistent. He was the only minister at the cabinet table who opposed Malcolm Fraser's stand on the Vietnamese refugees.

Possibly in spite he got even more hard line as he aged.

Gillard's “another boat, another policy failure” illustrates the point that policy or actions for partisan political purposes will always come back to bite you in the bum and hasn't the whole issue bitten her often. I suspect will continue to do as the legislation is being implemented with great haste and has base political motivation.

Short term gain often reaps long term pain.

DMW

August 16. 2012 10:42 AM

LadyInRed

So parliament has been used so that every coalition MP can kick the PM in the head, and then kick her to the ground, and try to beat her even more. Bullies the lot of them. Says everything I need to know about them. Who would do that, make a sport out of making a point? Used to be you made your point and left it at that. But I notice even on TPS there seems to be a need to ram the point home......sad really.

And then what actually maddens me even more is the useless Greens come out and kick the PM around the head again. Nothing worse than political purists (ToM). The Greens scuttled the first carbon price, then they brokered a deal, and left the PM out there to cop all the blows, and also kicked her in the head for good measure. Then they had a chance to work out a deal with the government, but chose to stick to their purist ideals, fair enough, but then to come out and kick the PM in the head along with the others....well it stinks. A pox on them I say. Brown slinks off in the middle of it all, realising his heart wasn't in it me thinks? It takes a special kind of person to do what the Greens are doing. The moral high ground is nice if you can get it - but then they don;t actually have to govern do they?

Now to Lyn's links.

LadyInRed

August 16. 2012 10:52 AM

Tom of Melbourne

I agree DMW, but I find it weak that so many ALP supporters just lapse into endorsement of whatever the ALP publishes.

Howard was partisan and mean spirited, and Gillard shows no signs of being more generous of spirit, or any less partisan.

Poliiticians should be condemned and held to account, but various people rush to congratulate Gillard for her clever politics.

Tom of Melbourne

August 16. 2012 11:06 AM

Miglo

Great article, Ad astra. I've just linked it to a number of Facebook sites that collectively have over 10,000 members.  I hope most read it.

Miglo

August 16. 2012 11:09 AM

DMW

ToM,
Ms Gillard also illustrates another point.

Losers often learn the wrong lessons from defeat.

It appears that what is written in the playbook is that Mr Howard was a political genius and knew what it took to win elections and therefore if we copy him we will be winners.

A lot of people here are correct; the latest 'solution' is not the Howard Pacific Solution nor is it like Liberal Party policy.

What is being enacted has the potential to make what the Liberals have been proposing absolutely humane and fair and reasonable policy.

DMW

August 16. 2012 11:13 AM

42 long

  When political parties chose to treat refugees, in a manner that advantages their chances of election, you start appealing to some pretty base elements in society. Everyone (including the country) is sullied
  The longer this is handled this way the worse everyone behaves. Hopefully, it's settled from that viewpoint.
  The Greens are choking on the Halo they wear. Pious non practical policies. THEY have caused the ALP and their country a lot of lost traction. What they do makes THEM feel good and recruits some non pragmatists from the labour ranks. Naieve people in a way, and very self indulgent. They take no responsibility for the outcomes we get. As long as they are pure in heart. They ahould call their party a religion If they are not willing to get really involved in politics, because politics is the dirty pit you have to jump into to get things done, and is the ART of the achievable, in a real world, not an imagined one.

42 long

August 16. 2012 12:02 PM

Patriciawa

Sometimes DMW you talk such nonsense.  I'll resist the temptation to argue with you on your latest pronouncement thatWhat is being enacted has the potential to make what the Liberals have been proposing absolutely humane and fair and reasonable policy.  

I know that after wasting pages of good space and sound argument with you by those who don't know you and your numerous red herrings of the past that you'll eventually cave in, graciously admit defeat or change the subject so that you are able to remain as part of the TPS community.  Thus you leave open for yourself the opportunity to be again at the centre of another battle royal arguing something which is completely at odds with perspectives of most contributors here.

May I suggest that you read the report of the expert panel in full, as well watch the many interviews its members and the PM and Minister for Immigration have given as well as read the contributions of people like Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott to the debate.   When you have done all that perhaps then you can come back and pick a fight with someone here at TPS if you still want to make sweeping statements like that above.

Patriciawa

August 16. 2012 12:16 PM

Psyclaw



Good Morning AA

I read your comment late last night and my immediate reaction was “fair comment”.

Having devoted a large proportion of my overnight cogitations to the issue, I have not changed my mind ……. fair comment.

Nevertheless there are a few comments I would like to make.

The frequently expressed mission of TPS is to put the MSM to the sword when they exhibit unfair, untrue, unbalanced and misleading behavior. It would be quite incongruous for the TPS not to view its own comments in the same light and to apply the same standards.

In the past, particularly the last 6 weeks or so I have become aware of a growing number of comments here which are re-badged Opposition viewpoints, sometimes subtle, other times quite blatant.

I have no difficulty with such points of view appearing here, but in the interest of effective and honest communication I believe that such comments should be acknowledged for what they are.

For example, a comment which almost verbatim endorses what Joe Hockey had said about the Swan / Springsteen issue and which implicitly derides JG and /or her team should IMHO be prefaced by something like “On this occasion I support what JH has said about………..” etc and go on to give some minimal (at least) argument in support of that view.

Otherwise the writers must accept that what they say will be challenged, and their bona fides as Labor supporters will also be questioned.

Likewise, when writers include what they later describe as “throw away lines”, which are anti the JG government, they must accept challenge. If one is to write anything derogatory about another, they take on the responsibility of being careful and planfully cognisant of what they are about to write.

I spent the last three decades in various investigative roles. Such tasks demand an ever present eye for detail, and a disposition to lift up and look under rocks which others have just passed by. Perseverance, stubborness, and determination are also required.

Presumably it is that experience that has led me to shine the spotlight around this place at times. But I’m sure you would agree that that is but a small proportion of what I write at TPS.

So for the immediate future I will desist shining such spotlights here by way of direct comment; the “brain farts “ of this “pompous twat smartarse” will for the moment cease.

I do hope that other Swordsters continue to make the call on MSM-standard comments whenever they appear here. And perhaps the ever present Lurkers who obviously appreciate the work of TPs will instill accountability into the site by an occasional comment when warranted  ……. their comments when they do appear here are always pithy, right to the point.

Ad Astra, please do not construe these comments of mine to mean that I have descended into some deep well of despondency, retreat, capitulation, or uncooperation.  Nothing is further from the truth.

With your grace, I will continue to contribute here ….. my spirits are high in this regard ……  and I will expect my posts to be called to book whenever they seem to lack honesty, logic, loyalty and ethics.

Cheers

Psyclaw

August 16. 2012 12:22 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad

I had trouble this morning cvollecting the Twitterverse, there isn't much there worth repeating.  Mark Latham's piece in the AFR is worth reading if only yo confirm our thoughts on the MSM bias.

If you have time have a look at the link in Today's Links called speeches.  I thought it would be helpful for your files.

Hi Patricia you are wonderful absolutely wonderful, you have just told DMW exactly my thoughts, thankyou Patricia.  Psyclaw has been reasoning for days and days.

Twitterverse:-

Media double standard giving Abbott a free ride, Mark Latham AFR
In 35 years studying Australian politics, I have never seen a political leader so vulnerable to criticism yet treated so lightly by the media. Perhaps the Canberra press gallery has become so accustomed to finding fault in Julia Gillard it has forgotten how to hold her opposite number to account. Perhaps government ministers are correct in alleging News Ltd bias against the ALP.

Based on the evidence of the past week, the media bias against Labor is real and reprehensible – and will stay that way until Abbott is brought to account.
afr.com/.../media_double_standard_giving_abbott_XuXlS12kaYsSw3Py8FcUVN

The West Australian‏@thewest_com_au
Asylum seekers who behave like pirates should be prosecuted as criminals, says Opposition. http://yhoo.it/OZjKfS

vexnews‏@vexnews
NSW Liberal Party warned of an unprecedented branch stacking war if its constitution is re-written http://bit.ly/OZgmS3 #nswpol #auspol

Chris murphy‏@chrismurphys
Australia leads the World fightback against the killer drug it let become legal. Julia GillardPM warrior. #auspolthelede.blogs.nytimes.com/.../

TAWNBPM‏@TAWNBPM
" Eminent Australians, led by former prime minister Malcolm Fraser, are calling for an independent inquiry into... http://fb.me/1BIMrzXUr

Daniel Flitton‏@danielflitton
Labor breathing easier as big issues lose their bite m.theage.com.au/.../...ir-bite-20120815-2493a.html

Lyn

August 16. 2012 12:25 PM

Psyclaw


PatriciaW

I had written my 12.16pm to AA as a word document and cut and pasted it her without looking above. Then I saw your comment.

I'd like to give you a yellow smilie, but in all the circumstances I will refrain.

Perhaps next time!

Cheers

Psyclaw

August 16. 2012 12:26 PM

DMW

Thanks for the feedback PWA,
In case you missed it I wrote has the potential.

There are a number of reasons I write that.

Firstly any legislation enacted in haste, which is what is happening in this case, can prove inadequate or contrary to its' intended consequences. We need look no further back than the previous 'refugee' legislation that succumbed to appeal in the High Court.

The 'no advantage' provisions will need to be handled extremely carefully and totally inside very tight regulation as there will be many willing 'whistle blowers' at the first sign that something is amiss.

So what is the complete nonsense that I have written?

DMW

August 16. 2012 12:29 PM

TalkTurkey

Hi-Ho Swordsfolks

We can all see the upbeat change to the mien of the Government.

We can all see the downbeat change to the mien of the Abborttians.

Well I am noticing something else too: the quality and variety and mien of the writing on this beloved blog.

All the writers bring different skills, points of view, takes on events and personalities, but the writers get better with every new thread, more confident, more responsible, with a greater sense of cameraderie and determination that indeed, NO PASARAN!, they SHALL not pass, those criminal creeps I call the Abborttians and their filthy-rich supporters and their media masters.

That is what this blog is about, it is a dedicated fighting blog with attitude.

Psyclaw I have not forgotten you. Patience and time, and in this case, faith!

But get this, The Political Sword may be more critical to our victory than I hardly dare to contemplate. The 5th Estate needs to coalesce of its own gravity, for this is like the new soapbox, or Witan where they MOOTed, or the Senate, in the Roman sense. This must be the place for opinion, for the outworn sterile incestuous self-congratulatory GrattanCrabbish world of the MSM offers us nothing now, the blogosphere is where the truth and the news and the ideas and worthwhile opinions are to be found, and we need to draw many many more people closer to this source, and that right smartly.

Congratulations and Huzzahs to Sword contributors of good will. As for those few illwillians of the sort who anoint themselves with imaginary knighthoods, Ha-Haahs instead!  

I believe in 'synchronicity', I believe that the opinions expressed here are finding exponentially-evolving-growing-more-savvy resonance. Lyn makes sure they do, and hers is a two-way flight, she takes Us out to Everyone Else, and brings Everyone Else back to Us. What a Magic Bird!  

Lyn says she doesn't write much - she makes available so much of others' writings! Jason doesn't write a great deal but as in Bob Dylan's story of the Hurricane he can take his opponents out with just one punch! Rarely, sparely, effusive or usefully abusive,  everyone's writing is different and everyone with goodwill is welcome. Here gender is absolutely immaterial and often indeterminate, the better points one makes and the better one makes them is what counts here. Because it is our words that are the edge to this, our Sword.

But it is Ad astra himself that is the Truesilver (L.O.R) of which this Sword blade is forged in the Fires of Time and Experience, that is what makes this blog nonpareil, that is why others must come to us, like it or not we must be the hub. Lyn and Ad, our Dynamic Duo, are the best thing happening in the blogospere as we speak, and it is our job, us simple other contributors, to make this site compulsory reading for the leaders of this nation. Any politicians with any nous are visiting here already. Let us be worthy of their attention and consideration. Ad ALWAYS is!

Without The Political Sword, I would be hopeful that the Government will win the next election. Hopeful, but fearful.

WITH the Political Sword, I say with ever-growing determination, confidence, and assurance to us all,
that noblest of war-cries,
VENCEREMOS!
WE WILL WIN!


And we bloody will too.

TalkTurkey

August 16. 2012 12:29 PM

Ad astra

LadyinRed, Nasking
I missed Faine’s radio encounter with Tony Abbott where Faine challenged Abbott over his use of the word ‘illegals’ to describe asylum seekers, and as Faine persisted Abbott floundered.  Does anyone have a link to that interview?

I also missed Barrie Cassidy this morning on the Jon Faine show, but he also mentioned that interview and apparently said that Faine was the first one to pull Abbott up, something the Canberra Press Gallery has declined to do.  Does anyone have a link to that one?

I sense that at least Cassidy feels that Abbott has been let off the hook so far and needs to be challenged by the press pack.  And if Abbott challenged, we can predict he will falter and stumble in his inimitable hesitant, awkward style.

I feel that we are on the verge of a change of media tactics.  So far most journalists have been too timid to challenge the aggressive, combative Abbott, but now that he has been shown to be fragile under pressure, they may be emboldened to challenge him in interviews, as Jon Faine did, and persist with the challenge; and they may be more willing to write less sycophantly about him.  Times are a changing!

Ad astra

August 16. 2012 12:35 PM

LadyInRed

Ad

Here is tweetypie's link to Faine.

blogs.abc.net.au/.../...-asylum-seeker-policy.html

LadyInRed

August 16. 2012 12:38 PM

Ad astra

Miglo
Thank you for your kind comment and for publicizing this piece via Facebook to a vast audience.

Ad astra

August 16. 2012 12:54 PM

KHTAGH

TT
So well said mate.
I hope things are progressing well with you now, home with no tubes attached where they should not be.
I look forward to your posts & all others here, well some questionable self appointed peerages are the exception.
Cheers to all.

KHTAGH

August 16. 2012 12:56 PM

DMW

PWA,
may I suggest that that you and others Swordsters take eleven minutes or so to listen to the speech by Melissa Parke (ALP) Federal Member for Freemantle. More is the pity the chamber was virtually empty when she spoke.

Among a number of emminently sensible points made she said (this legislation is) ... a compromise at the lower end of what we are capable of ...

We fail to listen to people such as Ms Parke at our peril.

DMW

August 16. 2012 01:00 PM

DMW

of course it would have been better if I had provided a link to Ms Parke's speech so here it is:
www.melissaparke.com.au/.../...um-seeker-plan.html

DMW

August 16. 2012 01:32 PM

nasking



Ad,
thnx for the most kind words.

Here's an interesting link for today:

Robin Hood mayor flouts law to fight austerity

www.abc.net.au/.../4201006

I'm not one for robbing supermarkets...but these people are obviously desperate in Spain off the back off the cruel austerity measures.

The CONservative govts need to be very careful they don't overplay their hand with these massive debt cuts and austerity measures that hurt the workers and disadvantaged yet pretty well let the mega rich off scott-free...including bankers who have caused alot of the trouble.

There are so many billions of people out there who have had a gut full of the conjob that is going on that sees one rule for THE PRIVILEGED FEW and another for THE STRUGGLING MANY.

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 01:39 PM

Patriciawa

DMW - Melissa Parke is my local member and I have written to her, agreeing with much she says in that speech, but not all.  I was priveleged to have had lunch with her and Senator Carr here in Freo just a few days ago and to have had the opportunity to speak to both one on one.  Had the expert panel report already been presented no doubt both would have been as forthright in presenting their views and as attentive in listening to mine and others' as they were last Friday on a range of Labor policy issues.

Meanwhile on the AS debate, have you taken time to read and digest what others have to say, particularly the original presentation of the report by the panel and the interviews with the PM and the Minister, the Attorney General, MHRs and Senators, including the Independents?

Patriciawa

August 16. 2012 01:46 PM

Tom of Melbourne

”have you taken time to read and digest what others have to say, particularly the original presentation of the report by the panel and the interviews with the PM and the Minister, the Attorney General, MHRs and Senators, including the Independents?”

That’s just another way of saying, “even though I’ve agreed with all the earlier policies and “Solutions” the ALP has announced, I really, really, really agree with this one!!”


From the comfort of a lounge chair, it’s quite easy to decide that sending desperate people to Malaysia, or Nauru, or anywhere but here, is good policy.

Tom of Melbourne

August 16. 2012 01:48 PM

nasking



I sense that at least Cassidy feels that Abbott has been let off the hook so far and needs to be challenged by the press pack.  And if Abbott challenged, we can predict he will falter and stumble in his inimitable hesitant, awkward style.

I feel that we are on the verge of a change of media tactics.  So far most journalists have been too timid to challenge the aggressive, combative Abbott, but now that he has been shown to be fragile under pressure, they may be emboldened to challenge him in interviews, as Jon Faine did, and persist with the challenge; and they may be more willing to write less sycophantly about him.  Times are a changing!
Ad astra


Ad,
if this letting Abbott off the hook nonsense continues and the govt falls and Abbott brings in fullbore Austerity Meaures with his Coalition and LNP allies I reckon we know who to blame...

and the people WILL WAKE UP to this CON.

We are humans trying to survive the best we can in an unpredictable world...we need security amd routine including affordable healthcare, education, aged care and child care to help keep our lives more stable so we can focus our efforts positively and efficiently...we are not a corporation...not robots...nor serfs to be used without empathy, tolerance, fairness and compassion.

We will only put up with being crapped on from a great height for so long. Our history shows this.

It's time our media stopped acting like the plaything of corporate interests and media barons.

Work in the public interest...or be damned.

We all know Abbott has made many mistakes, said many grotesque things, has created a vile negative atmosphere. He is not good for the progress and harmony of this country.

It's good to see that some in the media are now courageous enuff to express this.

And about bloody time.

Tony Abbott should NEVER be Prime Minister of this country.

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 01:58 PM

2353

I always thought that a discussion was a space where people could bring differing points of view.  Clearly this is no longer the case at TPS.

In the last week when I suggested an alternate point of view to the majority here, it was shouted down - one comment claimed that I was of low class and had no right to an opinion - I still don't know what they though about the comment!

Today we see Patricia, Lyn and Psyclaw perscute DMW for expressing an opinion that is different to the majority point of view.

Hate to tell you this folks, but I am quite entitled to express a point of view anywhere that the proprietor of the blog allows me to post.  AA has not withdrawn his implied permission to my knowledge (and he has my email address should he wish to do so).

There are a number of differing opinions that could be an effective answer to a problem - it's a shame that the majority of the time only one seems to be accepted by a small minority on this blog.  If one tribe of thought had the perfect answer for every problem that is going to be encountered - Bligh would still be Premier of Queensland.

Do I think the LNP would make a good Federal Government - no.  That doesn't necessarily mean that I support everything the ALP says or does.  Sometimes the Greens have a good point - but not always.  I don't have to, I'm not an ALP member.

For the record I have a Bachelor Degree and can write with as much pomposity and affected phasing as anyone else here - I would prefer my message to be understood so I don't.  Like DMW - it's not on the screen I haven't said it.  I cannot ensure that peoples ideological glasses are removed long enough to look at others musings and think about it.  And that's a shame.

2353

August 16. 2012 02:05 PM

Michael

What a charmer Campbell Newman is:

Edited from ABC News Online: The former Queensland premier Anna Bligh is leaving the state, and moving to New South Wales.

Her husband, Greg Withers, has taken a job as a senior executive with Arts New South Wales.

Ms Bligh's successor - Premier Campbell Newman - says plenty of people want to see her go.

"We haven't run them out of town," Mr Newman said.

"I know some people would like to - a lot of the people at the [Brisbane Show] I met yesterday would have liked to," he said.

Michael

August 16. 2012 02:06 PM

Psyclaw



"Today we see Patricia, Lyn and Psyclaw perscute DMW for ........"

Where?

Psyclaw

August 16. 2012 02:09 PM

DMW

Yes Patricia I have taken the time to listen to and read many views including ALL of those here.

I envy you in a small way that you have Ms Parke as your local member but I am also pleased that I have Mr Leigh as my local member. Gees it would be tough choice between those two.

Can you or anyone else answer this: Why are we treating those that arrive by boat differently to those that arrive by plane?

If the government were to send all those supposedly 'illegals' who arrive by plane and seek asylum to Manus Island or Nauru as well as those who arrive by boat I could accept that the 'solution' that is being implemented were the real deal. I would be disgusted but I would accept that as the governments' fair dinkum effort to stem the flows.

I could also ask in what reality is it that people who flee because of the fear of persecution, torture, rape and/or death would be convinced that being detained on Nauru or Manus Island alive and however inhumanely protected was the worst option?

There are some good elements to the Houston 'plan' but unfortunately the government wasted an opportunity by designing the inquiry to be about stopping the boats and not giving more weight to a wider scope for 'fixing' the mess.

DMW

August 16. 2012 02:23 PM

2353

The second last paragraph should have read "Do I think the LNP would make a good Federal Government - no.  That doesn't necessarily mean that I support everything the ALP says or does.  Sometimes the Greens have a good point - but not always.  I don't have to follow a particular point of view, I'm not an ALP member or a member of any other party either."

Corrections in bold.

Psyclaw - hint - scroll up.  That is all.

2353

August 16. 2012 02:27 PM

TalkTurkey

Hey Folks
Don't forget that line from Banjo Paterson's Saltbush Bill I quoted just before the passing of the AS legislation became a certainty:
The best day's work that ever (s/)he did was the day (s/)he lost the fight!

Yes it may appear to many that Labor has capitulated on Nauru. What it really means is that Labor has compromised further than it wanted to go, further than it should have been made to go, but as far as it had to go to break the impasse that simply could not be allowed to continue.

As I predicted: The 3 AS Panel members said, FIX IT NOW.

Labor don't forget was prepared to go as far as Nauru even before the Report came down. It could not have been in better faith.

But the Abborttians even then were not prepared to work with Labor. They have dreaded and resisted any reasonable resolution to this issue, in what is surely the most cynical and despicable of all internationally-resonating acts of self-serving bastardry ever by any Australian Government or Opposition. Oh how I wish I could write better about these lowlife beings! I wish my words would vaporise them on the spot! But never fear, we will do them slowly just as PJK said of Them at the time instead.

And do we not all see now how clever a trap our Ranga Lass set them? -  A trap laid by a master baiter, no pun originally intended, well a mistress baiter really, to smell to Abborttians like Get out of Gaol and Take a Free Turn, - and indeed with honest sacrifice on Labor's part too, be it noted - yet in the washout, it is Labor, with the help of those two decent IndependAnts, who have finally brought at least reason and process to the most shameful deadly  chaotic situation in which this nation has ever been involved. And from here, we can work to improve it, hate that though Greens leaders and Abborttians will. We have sorted the situation as well as we know how. The rest have only ever sledged. Bravo Government.  

I don't read ToM at all deliberately these days, but I saw something about Oh pointscoring is all it's about for the Govt (I must and will include Oakeshott and Windsor, those Two Good Men!) Well that would be his take wouldn't it, sleazy to the last smear!  Because what it really means is the Govt can get on at last with a DECENT scheme, one that nearly everybody will see as fair. and it will be a regional scheme, agreed to by all participating nations.

And It will NOT ivolve turning boats around.

Look to your own sinking boat Abborttians. Because NOTHING can save you now. Oh and take ToM with you. He won't want to live under another *J*U*L*I*A*-led Government anyway.    

TalkTurkey

August 16. 2012 02:30 PM

2353

DMW - you're correct.  We are still treating (this time hopefully with compassion) people that arrive by 747 and people who arrive by boat differently.  Those that arrive by 747 are much more likely to be put up in the Motel in some large Australian City for months on end than those arriving by boat.

Hopefully we'll find a way to treat all asylum seekers with the same methods soon.  The ideal would be for there to be no asylum seekers - but there is a world of change required before that happens.

2353

August 16. 2012 02:33 PM

Ad astra

Psyclaw
Thank you for your thoughtful comment.

TPS is intended to be a forum for balanced debate, built upon facts and sound reasoning.  You have contributed splendidly to this site, and I hope you will continue to do so.

I wish to avoid on TPS words about others who blog here that are personal, or discourteous or abusive.  We ought to be able to converse without resort to such devices.

A more contentious issue is how contributors present their arguments.  Just a few, and we know who they are, seem to come here with a prime purpose of provoking, poking fun, and deriding and demeaning Julia Gillard and her Government.  While criticism of her policies and how they are presented is perfectly acceptable when it is based on facts, figures and reasoning, resorting to pejoratives to describe the PM, such as ‘liar’, ‘incompetent’, ‘back-flipper’, 'back-stabber', and so on, diverts debate from the substance of the issue, and directs it to the personal.  This type of comment has the potential for evoking an angry response from those who support PM Gillard and her Government, which can quickly descend into a skirmish between a few bloggers that upsets others.

Anyone who listened to QT in the Senate today will know what I mean.  Liberal senators focused once more on the carbon tax, but not to debate its worth, but to demean the PM for ‘breaking a promise not to introduce a carbon tax’, for telling untruths, for the most shameful deception of the people, and so on, quoting Julia Gillard’s words of two and even seven years ago.  There was no debate about climate change and the best way of countering it; the question was simply a vehicle to heap abuse on the PM.  We certainly don’t want that childish type of debate here.  From what you have written in your last comment, I’m sure you would agree   It’s what you would describe as ‘re-badged’ Coalition talking points.

All of us need to watch our words and how we present our arguments.

Finally, I hope you will continue to contribute in the excellent way you have done, especially bringing as you do your legal and investigative knowledge and skill to TPS.

Ad astra

August 16. 2012 02:41 PM

nasking



"We haven't run them out of town," Mr Newman said.
"I know some people would like to - a lot of the people at the [Brisbane Show] I met yesterday would have liked to," he said.


What a sad comment from a Premier about a former Premier.

I recall Peter Beattie pushing Jo Bjelke Peterson around in his wheelchair regardless of their past differences. What is Newman thinking?

One day many people in this state will realise Anna Bligh helped to motivate alot of young women here and did some wonderful things in the area of education. And a helluva job during the floods. Some people just don't like to have their lives moderated...especially those who tear down trees and bush in order to make money. The same with those who would overfish.

I didn't agree with all of Anna Bligh's govt's decisions...but I felt she governed Qld with dignity...a pursuit of fairness and tolerance of myriad views & cultures...and she cared deeply for this state...was not just a property development and corporate lackey.

The way she was treated by the Qld voters and media during the last election was a disgrace.

Another talented Aussie woman taken for granted.

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 02:55 PM

jane

ToM & DMW, I call bullshit wrt your carping about the latest asylum seeker legislation.

For 2+ years now, the government has sought to negotiate with both the Liars and the Holier than Thou Greens to frame legislation for a regional solution to the current asylum seeker crisis.

Neither have been prepared to negotiate or compromise in any way shape or form, purely for their political benefit as far as I can see.

It seems Indonesia and Malaysia are more committed to negotiation than either the Greens or the Liars.

AFAIC, the Greens have been more than a little disingenuous wrt both carbon pricing and asylum seeker legislation.

At the Liars don't try to hide the fact that they couldn't give a toss about the unfortunate people trying to make a new start free of terror. They're just convenient blunt instruments.

I see no difference in the Greens attitude, despite their crocodile tears.

It's well past time for all parties to leave their politicking at the door and sit down and thrash out a policy which gives the asylum seekers some bloody justice and hope for a better future!

And it's high time the population of this country stopped whining because they can't have 2 beemers and started thinking about poor buggers too terrified to do else but leave their homes, their families and their country!

I believe it's called EMPATHY!

That said, there's no hope of achieving a compromise at the upper end of what we're capable, when two of the three parties show absolutely no interest in such a result.

And all the pontificating in the world will NOT change that fact.

I also think that the PM and the government have set a trap for the Nopposition. The legislation is essentially the Liars Pacific Solution, which they claim will STOP THE BOATS!!!!

The government aims to show that it will do no such thing, thus tearing down the Liars big fat lie and hopefully leading to a more fruitful discussion and infinitely better legislation.

And wot 42 long and Patricia said.

Lyn, as always, great links, providing plenty of food for thought.

TT in fine form again, I'm happy to see.

Psyclaw, I don't think you're a twat, pompous or a smartarse. I do think you put a great deal of thought into your well reasoned, well researched, informative comments, which I enjoy reading.

Nas' wonderful to see bear prints on the blog again.

jane

August 16. 2012 03:00 PM

Jason

DMW,
   I offer only opinion and nothing more! I can't back it up with fact, but as a member of the ALP it's just that.

During Beazley's time as leader and the events of September 11 Howard saw a weakness and wedged Labor on this subject!
Howard would do his daily rounds of the 'shock Jocks" and "dog whistle" that Labor was weak on border protection and how "terrorist" could turn up in leaky boats  and  on it went.

Labor never stood up to the coalition then or now, and like it or not we have what we have!
Labor has made a choice it needs clear air and this was going to "dog" them until election day! is it fair? perhaps not. the Greens may have been able to make it somewhat more palatable but they had no interest, and at the end of the day Labors long standing policy has been for offshore processing hence Malayasia, East Timor or anywhere else except Naruru.

It could be worse I guess the coalition could win in a landslide at the next election and control of the Senate then we'll see nasty policy on this subject.




Jason

August 16. 2012 03:09 PM

nasking


Lyn,
thnx for the links.

I enjoyed reading:

ashghebranious.wordpress.com/.../

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 03:20 PM

nasking


jane,
loved yer feisty comment.

People can blame Gillard all they like...it was the uber opportunists Abbott & Morrison that would not budge...and with the aid of too many corporate puppets in the media they have made asylum seekers lives even harder.

Righties across the world stir up and feed on xenophobia...and it's oft their damned corporate profiteering wars that displace people.

In some ways they are no better than the Muslim extremists, dictators and Sri Lankan persecutors.

They just have a sneakier, sometimes less overt, way of gaining and retaining power and privileges...using fearmongering to benefit...regardless of the suffering it causes.

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 03:30 PM

KHTAGH

While waiting for question time to be saved to my set top box [so I don't have to listen to the lieberals, thank dog for fast forward, thanks TT you have to share that one now] I was having a red & a ponder on the situation of late with all the debate about AS's our borders etc A general question to all swordfolk.

How many here here have been out of Australia, let alone their state. ? Living outside of Australia is a real education.
We are so fast to be critical of others, seeking help [I do it too sometimes] but there is a very different world out there that is very cruel most of the time to most of the people unless you are rich.
We are so bloody lucky in this country, we have never have any wars on our soil other than the disgraceful early eradication attempts of the original owners of out great country.

Had we had a war between states in this country, Howard would never got away with the disarming of this country like he did [& gee didn't that work well!]. I'm not saying it was a bad thing on that score either. But effectiveness well that's debatable.

We are so easily sold a pup in this country because unfortunately our patriotism is mainly due to sport, we have more blood spilt in the state of origin than has ever been spilt anywhere domestically. Due to this fact of never having to really fight for this country we have a very thin layer of true patriotism, a very big reason that Wing Nut can get away with what he is doing I might add there too.

  Even when we have fought in true wars we have always done it on other soils, this gives a great feeling of doing good for others but we don't get the feeling of "thank fuck we beat those buggers & the relief of regaining your own land". I have always said thank dog  the aboriginals didn't have the fighting ethic of the Māori's of NZ or we would be a very different country.
I think this factor is mainly due to the size of this land.
NZ is a very small country so populations are very closed non transient fishing mainly. so to hold your home you have to fight for it.
Where as the aboriginals had a very different situation, food runs out you move on to somewhere else, there is very little conflict due to land mass, & over time [millennia] builds a less combative society, you can't fight nature [ a lesson us white know it all pricks are about to learn, bigtime!!]

Off to watch QT & hopefully see a few lieberals kicked out, I did notice the poodle pulling a faces earlier like he always does when told to sit down by the speaker, he is such a child.
Well sorry for this rave Swordsters.

KHTAGH

August 16. 2012 03:35 PM

jaycee

I am always suspicious of people who cannot or will not align themselves with a political party, but swing with their mood of the day. These were once called opportunists. One need not entirely agree with their party's policy, but in placing ones' weight behind the broad picture ideal, one has relevance and can claim, not temporary righteousness for a temporary solution, but satisfaction by giving force to a plan for a national longevity solution. This also allows a party to plan for all the requirements for a social and economically stable community, knowing it has a stable voting base of supporters.
If one swings with the foxes and hunts with the hounds, you are creating an unstable, quick-fix political mentality that can do nought but allow other political opportunists to "catch" your vote for their mischevious and temporal advantage. Such "suckers" are an easy target for Liberal Party populism,which offers inducements it knows it will not necessarily have to deliver (core and non-core), but are a scourge for any party that wants to implement hard, long-term saftey-net policies when the swinging voters' mantra is forever ; "What's in it for me?"  

jaycee

August 16. 2012 03:42 PM

nasking


I hear Tony Windsor made a passionate speech and got stuck into Abbott fullbore. Would make a useful YouTube contribution.

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 03:52 PM

2353

Jaycee, "what's in it for me" is similar to the "greed is good" mantra from the 80's.  And we know where that got us to don't we?

It's pathetic what a promise of tax cuts will do to peopple who may can for their family but apart from that their love is money and/or status.

2353

August 16. 2012 03:57 PM

42 long

The predictable "Suspension of Standing Orders" motion today had an extra element of Unpredictability which will no doubt. give rise to some considerable comment.
  Tony Windsor having enough of the Abbott "Rant" got up and spoke a few home truths about Tony's unconditional ambition to be the PM.
   This may be a "signal" moment in the game. Tony does look quite unsettled and desperate.
  The Spin that Tony and Morrison ran about the act of  "piracy" looks typically over the top since the report mentions self-harm being possible (Hardly an act of PIRACY, but you know what Scott and Tony are like.
  Tony suggests using the SAS fella's instead of a welcoming committee. That'ws what their IDOL Johnnie would have done.) These guys need help.( and soon) It's mortifying to watch.

42 long

August 16. 2012 04:10 PM

NormanK

This might well prove to be a landmark day in the prospects of the re-election of a Labor government. Tony Windsor has weighed into the debate surrounding The Big Lie by using some of the government's time to speak to the Motion to Suspend Standing Orders that was moved by Tony Abbott today. Windsor spoke in favour of suspending Standing Orders so that a debate could be held to bring into focus the events surrounding the election of a minority government which must compromise on its election promises in order to garner support from other members whose policy objectives might be at variance with those of the major parties.

Windsor reiterated his claims that Abbott offered to "do anything" in order to get the top job and lambasted him in particularly harsh terms for maintaining the Big Lie argument when it is well-known in some circles that Abbott would have implemented an ETS or a carbon tax if he had been offered the top job. Presumably Windsor will now be obliged to do the media circuit and spell out in more detail why it is that he is so angry with Abbott - and he was very angry.

If Windsor decides to not contest the next election, Julia Gillard will have a strong, outspoken advocate in her corner. Even if he does contest I don't believe that he will be a shrinking violet since he obviously holds Abbott in such contempt and won't want the good work of this government trashed by an incoming Abbott government. It will be worth keeping an eye out for Windsor's appearances over the next couple of days - the gloves are off.

NormanK

August 16. 2012 04:13 PM

nasking


Well said Norman.

Thnx for the summary of Windsor's speech, I missed it...moved on from parliament session too early.

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 04:15 PM

Shirley

Nasking.
Yes indeed Tony Windsor, was brilliant. I would recommend everyone that missed it to read the transcript. I wonder how it will be reported by the media. He repeated the "I will do anything, except sell my arse" line  that he has attributed to Abbott previously. Four opposition members where booted out so well done Tony. I will send him an email of support. I also wonder what our ethical opposition will do now to Tony for payback. Greg Combet also delivered an intelligent and thoughtful response. What a stateman he is.

Shirley

August 16. 2012 04:24 PM

nasking



George Osborne faces calls from leading economists for U-turn on austerity
Almost half of experts who backed chancellor in opposition now say Treasury should borrow to spend on infrastructure projects


www.guardian.co.uk/.../george-osborne-economists-austerity

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 04:25 PM

Psyclaw


For those who didn't see QT, Mr Windsor and Mr Combet made the replies to Abbott's SSO, which was an old speech he pulled out of the bottom drawer. Totally based on the "big lie" .... so boring, so yesterday, so unoriginal, so damn stale. What a lazy strategy. The fool is desperately trying to give CPR to the carbon scheme as an issue.

GC was fiery and incisive. But then came the shock ....TW got the call. It can only have ben prearranged with Albo that TW do the second reply to the next SSO debate. He was an angry, hungry tiger, waiting in the grass for Abbott, and he savaged him, absolutely.

He got away with addressing Abbott personally...."you know you said this ..... you know you said that ...." with reference to the post 2010 election negotiations to form government.

There were two highlights for me:

1) " You begged for us to support you. You said you'd do anything! You said you'd do anything except sell your arse" ..... this is now verbatim in Hansard, and verbatim repeated on ABC 24 by commentator.

2) "Had we supported you, you made it clear you'd have done a carbon price. Since then you've been all over the place, telling lie about the issue"

Abbott sat there like a stunned mullet, with a manic, embarrassed smile on his face. There was nought he could do. The poodle got up with a POO to stop TW but Madame Deputy Speaker sat him straight back down, and allowed TW to continue, even though he had just spelled out the 'arse' matter.

The only point of regret for me was that so many of the Abbotteers had trooped out when GC began to reply, and were not there to see the pug so embarrassed, face to face.  But I think most of them would have been near monitors and they like Abbott wouldn't have known what hit them.

Move over Darcy ..... TW is now king of the king-hit.

If there is even half fair coverage of this on the MSM tonight, and you listen quietly, you'll be hearing the tiny knocks of little elves as they methodically tap nail after nail into Abbott's LOTO coffin.

Psyclaw

August 16. 2012 04:26 PM

nasking


Shirley,
I also thought Greg Combet was impressive.

As was PM Gillard the entire week.

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 04:28 PM

Jason

Normank,
       Nice to see you back in a new bloom!

Jason

August 16. 2012 04:29 PM

KHTAGH

Whooo
Tony Windsor in QT just threw a lit match into the lieberals wheat silo.

KHTAGH

August 16. 2012 04:29 PM

Psyclaw


For those who didn't see QT, Mr Windsor and Mr Combet made the replies to Abbott's SSO, which was an old speech he pulled out of the bottom drawer. Totally based on the "big lie" .... so boring, so yesterday, so unoriginal, so damn stale. What a lazy strategy. The fool is desperately trying to give CPR to the carbon scheme as an issue.

GC was fiery and incisive. But then came the shock ....TW got the call. It can only have ben prearranged with Albo that TW do the second reply to the next SSO debate. He was an angry, hungry tiger, waiting in the grass for Abbott, and he savaged him, absolutely.

He got away with addressing Abbott personally...."you know you said this ..... you know you said that ...." with reference to the post 2010 election negotiations to form government.

There were two highlights for me:

1) " You begged for us to support you. You said you'd do anything! You said you'd do anything except sell your arse" ..... this is now verbatim in Hansard, and verbatim repeated on ABC 24 by commentator.

2) "Had we supported you, you made it clear you'd have done a carbon price. Since then you've been all over the place, telling lie about the issue"

Abbott sat there like a stunned mullet, with a manic, embarrassed smile on his face. There was nought he could do. The poodle got up with a POO to stop TW but Madame Deputy Speaker sat him straight back down, and allowed TW to continue, even though he had just spelled out the 'arse' matter.

The only point of regret for me was that so many of the Abbotteers had trooped out when GC began to reply, and were not there to see the pug so embarrassed, face to face.  But I think most of them would have been near monitors and they like Abbott wouldn't have known what hit them.

Move over Darcy ..... TW is now king of the king-hit.

If there is even half fair coverage of this on the MSM tonight, and you listen quietly, you'll be hearing the tiny knocks of little elves as they methodically tap nail after nail into Abbott's LOTO coffin.

Psyclaw

August 16. 2012 04:33 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Jane often provides a fact free, though entertainingly over the top, comment. We have another example here.

’ Neither have been prepared to negotiate or compromise in any way shape or form, purely for their political benefit as far as I can see.

…and from this the government could have maintained an on shore processing regime. It could have exercised its mind to implement alternative deterrents (if it considers this so vital), it could have stopped short of the punishment of the innocent. But the government has chosen to dive into the policy slime.

People with any form of conscience deplore the policy.


” I also think that the PM and the government have set a trap for the Nopposition

…and with this point, Jane gets to her real interest, rips away any façade of care, and agrees – it’s all ok with Jane, as long as the politics makes sense for the ALP.
---------------------
Most of the other stuff posted is unintelligible waffle.

Tom of Melbourne

August 16. 2012 04:37 PM

NormanK

Nasking

Cheers. As others have said, the transcript will be well worth a look. Hopefully Windsor will do the rounds of the media houses and drive the point home.

It's great to see you back. I hope your health is holding up.

Jason

The 'new bloom' has my sister's name so I might have finally settled on a Gravatar that has some meaning for me. Thanks for the welcome back.

NormanK

August 16. 2012 04:39 PM

42 long

Ive done something Ive done only once before. I emailled Tony Windsor with a support message. I hope his electorate support him. They are fortunate people to have someone like that represent them( And THAT is what he does). The LNP are after him now more than before, and we know how nasty they are. Hope a few others contact him too.

42 long

August 16. 2012 04:42 PM

nasking


Thnx Norman. Good health to you too.

Same to TT and Patricia.

I haven't watched 7:30 or QLd ABC for mths. Might do so tonight if they have the Windsor moment. Could be an important one.

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 04:46 PM

nasking



GC was fiery and incisive. But then came the shock ....TW got the call. It can only have ben prearranged with Albo that TW do the second reply to the next SSO debate. He was an angry, hungry tiger, waiting in the grass for Abbott, and he savaged him, absolutely.

Abbott sat there like a stunned mullet, with a manic, embarrassed smile on his face. There was nought he could do. The poodle got up with a POO to stop TW but Madame Deputy Speaker sat him straight back down, and allowed TW to continue, even though he had just spelled out the 'arse' matter.

Psyclaw,
effective  use of descriptive language.
Smile

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 04:53 PM

nasking


42 long,
well done!

I also wrote to Tony Windsor...told him I thought him a courageous and authentic politician.

http://www.tonywindsor.com.au/contact.html

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 04:57 PM

TalkTurkey

I hope this is what people want to look at,sorry if it's not but WOO_HOOO TONY WINDSOR ANYWAY

http://t.co/E9xNtkbJ

TONY WINDSOR FOR KING!

TalkTurkey

August 16. 2012 05:00 PM

TalkTurkey

Nope sorry I meant a video . . . But is this not The Sword? and has not the Sword infinite eyes?

TalkTurkey

August 16. 2012 05:01 PM

Ad astra

NormanK, Psyclaw
Thank you for drawing attention to QT today in the House.  I can’t get ABC 24 here in Melbourne (old TV and set top box), so was restricted to the Senate.  It sounded like an exciting session.  If any of you have a link to that SSO debate, please post it.

LadyinRed
Thanks for the link to the Jon Faine/Tony Abbott interview.

Ad astra

August 16. 2012 05:03 PM

TalkTurkey

media.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...ott-3559989.html

TalkTurkey

August 16. 2012 05:03 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Here is Question Time Twitterverse for you, Tony Windsor is trending his words today have jammed the internet

This link lists 7 facts by Tony Windsor http://img.ly/m56H

Posted onAugust 16, 2012from Twitterrific by @murpharoo National Affairs Correspondent for The Age , Canberra · http://www.theage.com.au
http://img.ly/m56H Tony Windsor's points in #QT today, via @murpharoo

Dafid‏@davidlen2
Well at last @abcnews shows some courage and reports Tony Windsors attack on Abbott www.abc.net.au/.../4203518

Agnes Mack‏@AgnessMack
#qt If Tony Windsor's speech doesn't lead tonight's news bulletins, MSM sucks even more than I thought.

AshGhebranious‏@AshGhebranious
I doubt Abbott will be leading the liberal party by the weekend

Tania Steenholdt‏@TaniaSteenholdt
Windsor ripping Abbott a new one #qt #auspol

Stephen Koukoulas‏@TheKouk
I think Mr Windsor just made the evening news....

Sokra Tease‏@sokra_tease
@geeksrulz. Go WINDSOR! TRUTH about the reason Gillard introduced Carbon Tax in order to form a minority Govt. A condition of forming Govt.

Naomi Woodley‏@naomiwoodley
TWindsor unloading on Abbott in the suspension debate. You "begged me" for this job (to be PM), "you're an absolute disgrace

Stephen C‏@2FBS
Windsor giving Tony Abbott the biggest bitch slapping in the history of Parliamentary bitch slappings.... #qt

kimworldwide ‏
@lyndalcurtis Mr Windsor also said 'PM said no ct under her Gov, and this is a hung parl- NOT her Gov'

paddy bts‏@paddybts
Oh my goodness! There is a Dog! Bless you Tony Windsor. I've not enjoyed a SSO this much for ages. #qt

Craig Emerson MP‏@CraigEmersonMP
.@Thefinnigans @juliagillard Windsor belled the Abbott! Then Abbott denied he'd ever break a pre-election promise. "Rock solid, iron clad?"

Agnes Mack‏@AgnessMack
#qt Tony Windsor's, Tony you said that you wld do anything but sell your arse, and you'd even consider that.... has to be best tv t'nite

Stephen C‏@2FBS
@BrigadierSlog Now lets see if it gets reported......

AshGhebranious‏@AshGhebranious
Tony Windsor is correct. You are an absolute disgrace @TonyAbbottMHR . Resign. #qt #auspol

spock‏@_spock
“You [Tony Abbott] are an absolute disgrace” - Tony Windsor. Truth Bombs getting dropped.

Adam Bandt‏@AdamBandt
Hats off to Tony Windsor today for bringing some truth to the debate about climate change & the disgraceful Coal'n approach

eleanor bloom‏@eleanorbloom
Abbott betrayed his leader to defeat Turnbull by one vote over that issue. Deceit ever since from the LOTO. - Combet #qt

Richard Willingham‏@rwillingham
Albo presser: abbott moved his 64th suspension, this is one he will regret. Windsor has laid bare the truth http://pic.twitter.com/4pLvb3p6

Windsor launches attack on 'disgrace' Abbott

You're an absolute disgrace in the way in which you're wandering around on this issue," Mr Windsor said.

"You have exactly the same target, you have the audacity to say you'll achieve that target through a much more expensive arrangement of putting a price on carbon."
au.news.yahoo.com/.../

Australian News‏@LatestAusNews
Windsor launches attack on 'disgrace' Abbott (ABC): Independent MP Tony Windsor has launched a ... http://yhoo.it/NHrZfp #ausnews

Craig Emerson MP‏@CraigEmersonMP
.Abbott is scribbling. Working out how much a tonne of CO2 weighs. Or a suspension.

AshGhebranious‏@AshGhebranious
How come the coalition can get away saying the word lie but the govt has to withdraw? #qt

Agnes Mack‏@AgnessMack
#qt Member for HInkler getting upset he's not allowed to table doc. Speaker eventually manages to silence him & sit him down

AshGhebranious‏@AshGhebranious
ANother bill. LOL this is going to be just pathetic from the coalition

Agnes Mack‏@AgnessMack
#qt Andrew Southcott raises electricity bill of Lakes Resort Hotel

Agnes Mack‏@AgnessMack
#qt Bradbury asked q on meatworks electricity bill. GST on #cp. .. Bradbury : GST is a tax on total, you ought to know, you introduced

eleanor bloom‏@eleanorbloom
Hockey. OUT. #qt

Courtney‏@C_L02
Scott Morrison gets booted for Parliament and immediately it becomes a much better place.

Agnes Mack‏@AgnessMack#qt Abbott SSO to allow PM 10 mins to apologise for "no #cp before last election..........Boring. Shameless frm such a persistent misleader

Wonder Llama‏@SirWonderLlama
Abbott claiming the PM is running out of the Parliament. That was a stroll, you were the one running #qt

eleanor bloom‏@eleanorbloom
TA claims every utterance of PM's reminds all in country of giant lie. Every time TA opens his mouth all reminded of his intellect + grace

AshGhebranious‏@AshGhebranious
Pyne's voice is cracking up. Shrill screaming not working for him. You need to breath dude. #auspol #qt

Lyn

August 16. 2012 05:04 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Just to clarify, my comment – “Most of the other stuff posted is unintelligible waffle.”…is directed to the barely coherent posts, certainly not to Jane.

Tom of Melbourne

August 16. 2012 05:11 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad and Everybody

Here is the video of Tony Windsor's speech today on You Tube it's gold, gold.

www.youtube.com/watch

Lyn

August 16. 2012 05:17 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
I’ve been having a very busy day, so it looks like I’ll be catching up with your links on the iPad in bed tonight.  Somehow, I missed your link to the Jon Faine/Tony Abbott interview, and still can’t find it.

But I did read your Twitterverse and was astonished to read Mark Latham’s piece in the AFR.  From someone who has poured so much scorn on Labor and our PM, for him to write as he did about Abbott is a mega turn around.  For those who haven’t had a chance to read the full piece, here it is – hold your breath!

Media double standard giving Abbott a free ride, by Mark Latham.

”Sometimes in public life, a politician gets away with a contentious statement so many times he feels emboldened to go over the top. This is how Tony Abbott approached his press conference at the Royal Show in Brisbane last Thursday.

“Even though the jobs data released earlier that day showed a 0.1 per cent fall in unemployment and the creation of 14,000 extra jobs in July, confirming the benign impact of the carbon tax during its first month of operation, Abbott maintained his scaremongering rhetoric.

“This carbon tax is going to be a wrecking ball through our economy, it is going to cost jobs big-time,” the Opposition Leader thundered, in words that Australia’s professional economists and forecasting agencies would find ludicrous. In a political system dominated by asinine sound bites, Abbott rounded out his contribution by declaring:

“This is a python squeeze on our economy.”

“The real squeeze has been on Abbott’s credibility. He has run the most fraudulently opportunistic scare campaign in our political history. The carbon tax was designed in a way that avoids harming consumer behaviour and the small business sector.

“The government’s compensation package has left most families better off, boosting retail spending and economic activity. As a small business owner in south-west Sydney said to me this week: “The only impact I’ve seen is on the level of media hype, the tax itself is not affecting me one way or another.”

“This anecdotal evidence was supported in the Reserve Bank of Australia’s statement on Friday on economic conditions. The RBA forecast gross domestic product growth of 3.5 per cent over 2012, with “the economy then expected to grow at around 3 per cent over 2013 and 2014”.
“Unemployment is expected to remain relatively low, with “employment growth expected to strengthen later in the forecast period (2012-14) as growth picks up in more labour-intensive sectors”.

“In short, Abbott’s “wrecking ball” and “python squeeze” hysteria has been discredited by the independent central bank and the ongoing strength of Australia’s miracle economy.

“Normally in these circumstances, one would expect a political leader to be criticised heavily. At the Brisbane Show, Abbott even provided the perfect photo opportunity for media lampooning, as he sashed a prize-winning bull.

“But most commentators have been mute. In my survey of media on Friday and Saturday, when the new economic data was topical, I found just two critiques of Abbott: a report on ABC Radio’s PM program and an article by Tim Colebatch in The Age, highlighting how “the federal opposition’s scare campaign against the carbon tax has failed its first test”.

“In 35 years studying Australian politics, I have never seen a political leader so vulnerable to criticism yet treated so lightly by the media. Perhaps the Canberra press gallery has become so accustomed to finding fault in Julia Gillard it has forgotten how to hold her opposite number to account. Perhaps government ministers are correct in alleging News Ltd bias against the ALP.

“To test this thesis, I read in detail News’s flagship political newspaper, The Australian. Its Friday and Saturday editions carried 26 news stories, 15 opinion pieces and two editorials commenting on national politics, but none of them dealt with Abbott’s atrocity. The paper has granted the Liberal leader political immunity.

“In the name of free speech and fairness, I should also point out that recent editions of The Australian Financial Review have been no more rigorous in scrutinising Abbott’s failed carbon tax forecasts.

“If Labor’s Kim Beazley had been opposition leader and misfired this badly, the newspapers would have bellowed about his poor judgment and unsuitability to be prime minister. In fact, that’s exactly what the major media houses said about Beazley before the 2001 election when his scare campaign against the GST collapsed in an opportunistic heap. This reveals an alarming double standard.

“The factual circumstances between Beazley and Abbott are identical: two opposition leaders who ran brazenly dishonest scare campaigns against new taxes. One, a Labor leader for whom the media acted as shrines of scrutiny and accountability. The other, a Liberal leader for whom the same publications have been as vocal as Trappist monks.

“Based on the evidence of the past week, the media bias against Labor is real and reprehensible – and will stay that way until Abbott is brought to account.”


Add that to the Tony Windsor blast in QT today and you have a LOTO in the firing line.  How long can News Limited go on defending this inveterate liar and refusing to expose him?

Add all this to the links in this piece and you can see the anti-Abbott momentum building, at last!

Ad astra

August 16. 2012 05:37 PM

Gravel

Jason

Congratulations on your 150th donation.  You stand up there with Julia and Tony Windsor in my eyes.

42long, Patricia, psyclaw thank you for todays wise words.

Knee High

You do write great perspective and points, gives me a lot to think on.

Psyclaw

I too enjoy you great writing.

NormanK

That rose is just beautiful, and it's lovely to see you here again.

Nasking

Does this mean you are back here for a  while, I think we've all missed you.

Lyn

Wasn't Tony Windsor brilliant.  I have watched the Ch7 4.30 news, and the Ch10 5pm news and not a bloody peep out of them.  After such a brilliant speech it should have been headline news.  Now I know it not just my bias that the MSM is covering up for abbott, what a bloody disgrace.

Gravel

August 16. 2012 05:49 PM

Lyn

Hi Norman K

Lovely to see you back on our TPS page with a beautiful Dahlia.

Have you finished all your garden beds ready for a beautiful Spring showing, yes I think you have.

Your post @ 04:10 PM delectable

SmileSmile

Lyn

August 16. 2012 05:55 PM

jaycee

Yes, Gravel..I deliberately looked for it on Ten's news at five and it wasn't on...at least not for the time I could stomach THAT news report!!
Yes, N. I sent Tony Windsor a congratulatory email too!

jaycee

August 16. 2012 05:58 PM

TalkTurkey

Tee hee
I got SEVENS on Labor on Sportsbet a few weeks ago  Smile

How long will Abbortt last? What then? Any possible potential LOTO is tainted by Abborttianism - except for Turdball, tainted by himself-and-Grech, and hated by all the Right of his rotten party!

But Abbortt has been called as I never before heard anybody called in Parliament today. I don't think Lyndal Curtis on Capital Hill has noticed anything unusual though. Carbon Tax yuddadda . . .

The Best Day for Labor since the Election, in my opinion . . .

It would have been a good day even without Tony Windsor's remarkable, comprehensive condemnation of the character we all so despise, this creep Tony Abbortt. I do not think anyone could have been more devastating in his delivery.

Well said Hon. Tony Windsor MHR, we honour you here on The Political Sword and always have done. As we do, indeed, your colleague the Hon. Rob Oakeshott MHR. Dog be praised, we have an Australia that has such people in it.



TalkTurkey

August 16. 2012 06:03 PM

nasking



Good one jaycee.

Gravel,
thought I'd get a bit in the last coupla days but the headaches from the eye strain are pretty bad. Probably take a few days off.

Was fun tho.

Keep up the good work all.

N'

nasking

August 16. 2012 06:06 PM

Patriciawa

KHTAGH- that was a very helpful suggestion from Nasking about Tony Windsor's 'go' at Abbott in question time.  I missed it and unless the news media re-produce it in full so will many others here.  Any chance of your copying that from your recording and making it available to us somehow?  Or perhaps the lovely Lyn will find a link for us.  I agree with NormanK and Nasking about how worthwhile that would be.

Yes, with NormanK and Nasking here on deck again and TT, Janice and myself still recuperating I am sure we are all helped in our convalescence by reading the good news on the political front this week. The PM always maintains a serene front, but one can see the real lightening in her laugh in the last few days that's been lovely to watch on our TV screens as it is being more widely shown to Australians too.

And yes, NormanK, that's a beautiful bloom!  You must get enormous pleasure from cultivating and photographing such specimens.  I am immensely cheered on my increasingly extended walks by the wonderful colors of flowers along our sidewalks and in gardens here.  The recent rains, though not nearly enough, have freshened us all up.  Even gazenias are spreading into a  glorious range of coloured carpets in the most commonplace of corners.  

2353 - I am sorry that my 'nonsense'comment to DMW was so hurtful   I will refrain from further persecution of him.

PS to you, 2353.  I am truly regretful to have somehow crossed swords with yourself, an unexected and unlooked for outcome to an observation I have long wanted to make about some of DMW's
engagements here. I have always refrained since I knew it would involve an even more tangled exchange as he responded by rationalising his way out of every counter-argument put to him and taking the discussion up yet another tortuous side alley.

Not that a differing point of view which often diverges into the irrelevant would normally bother me.  What I've regretted is how much lately he has allowed himself to used by ToM whose intent is definitely to undermine the spirit of TPS and not to contribute constructively to the discussion. Having experienced how maliciously undermining ToM and his friends can be at my own site I am naturally very suspicious of his motives here.   Since I control all comments received at http://polliepomes.wordpress.com/ I can deal with that sort of sabotage easily.   Here, since I don't make the rules, I simply avoid all contact with him and his ilk.

Patriciawa

August 16. 2012 06:11 PM

Psyclaw


Nasking Smile
Gravel Smile
Lyn Smile

Great tweets Lyn. Looks like the twittersphere is hugely bulging with references to TW's powereful speech.

I'm sure that late this arvo there has been a Credlin / Pug emergency summit to see how they can use the MSM tonight and tomorrow to restore the damage.

Abbott in his false confidence and committed to his self delusion that he had really won in 2010, had so little awareness of the fact that he just might be deselected by the Indies, that he blithley shot himself in the foot with the "anything, but I won't sell my arse" comment. So cocky that he didn't dream that those words might later come back at him.

Though TW has mentioned it in a couple of I/Vs over the past 2 years, today's effort was the first time he has unequivocally and fromally repeated Abbott's offer which is now in Hansard. The existence of the "crime" of deliberately misleading Parliament and relevant penalties would have been considered by him .... we can be confident that the Pug actually said the words.

As it unfolded this arvo I was at PB and the one liners came in thick and fast .... very enjoyable. One person there refers to Morriscum as "Scoot" , and when he was ejected by the Depitty Speaker the immediate comment "Scoot scooted" was one that brought a smile to my face.

BTW Ms Burke has been overly generous to the Colonition this week. She ejected far fewer than was warranted.

For about the 6th time this week she had to castigate Abbott personally for his crude, rude comments. His dumb, embarrassed smile and stare then comes on and he looked as silly as he did with the Mark Riley "silence". Time for him to be chucked.

Psyclaw

August 16. 2012 06:12 PM

2353

Way to go Tony WIndsor - what a great (from the heart) speech.

NormanK - welcome back and I hope your life is less stressed.  Lovely new flower - that one is a keeper.

2353

August 16. 2012 06:31 PM

Lyn

Hi Patricia

Here is the full speech, enjoy.

Also link to Eleanor Bloom's blog

Windsor's shining moment in Question Time, By Eleanor Bloom
As the Leader of the Opposition would know very well, as the Prime Minister would know very well, and the Deputy Prime Minister for that matter would know: The decision to do something about climate change, whether it be through an Emission Trading Scheme or a carbon pricing arrangement, but to put a price on carbon, was a condition of the formation of government.
notesfromeleanorbloom.blogspot.com.au/.../windsors-shining-moment-in-question-time.html


Video Windsor's speech in full

www.youtube.com/watch

SmileSmile

Lyn

August 16. 2012 06:34 PM

TalkTurkey


When I found this at alst I just had to post the whole item
Jon Faine, WOO-HOOO!

And thanks Frank, Good man.
.


Jon Faine interviews Tony Abbott on 774 Breakfast Radio

14th August 2012


Faine: Tony Abbott is the leader of the Liberal Party, leader of the Opposition in Federal Parliament, and today they will decide exactly how far they will go in solving this problem, Mr Abbott, good morning to you.


Abbott: G’day, how are you Jon?


Faine: Well it’s a very divisive issue, and one that saw tears flowing in the Parliament, are you prepared now to do whatever’s needed to put this to bed… to rest?


Abbott: We, we always support good policy and we always oppose bad policy. I’ve been saying for four years that the Prime Minister should pick up the phone to the President of Nauru. Now it seems finally she’s doing so, and, ah, we’ll do everything we can to facilitate the reopening of Nauru which is good policy, it should never have closed, and frankly, ah, we’ve had, ah, 22,000 illegal arrivals, almost 400 illegal boats…


Faine: They’re not illegal [Abbott keeps talking] Tony Abbott do I need to remind you that the use of words in this is critical. They are not illegal arrivals, there is nothing illegal about seeking asylum when you are a refugee


Abbott: ….eh, ah, well, I’m making my point, ah, Jon


Faine: Well so am I making mine


Abbott: ok, well…


Faine: …and I think it’s been made to you before


Abbott: The point I’m making is that, is that, we have had enormous cost, untold tragedy and trauma that could have been avoided if the Prime Minister had been prepared to do this at any time in the last four years


Faine: But likewise if you’d been prepared to sit down and compromise there may well have been movement, and in fact Chris Bowen and Julia Gillard both indicated a preparedness to negotiate and compromise even before this committee was convened.


Abbott: Well, well the Prime Minister has belatedly adopted the Coalition’s position on Nauru and Manus Island…


Faine: In part the Houston Report recommends a little bit of everybody’s policy, does it not?


Abbott: And, and the legislation that will come before the parliament today is about reopening Nauru and Manus, and that’s good policy…


Faine: This was a compromise available to you before, why didn’t you seize the the chance when it was there?


Abbott: We said, six weeks ago, we said it last Christmas, we’ve been saying consistently for four years, pick up the phone to the President of Nauru. The tragedy is that the Prime Minister was too stubborn and too pig-headed to do this at any time before 7 o’clock yesterday morning.


Faine: Your interest was in trying to make out that Julia Gillard couldn’t do a deal, was it not? That’s what you wanted to achieve, that’s the position you wanted to force her into.


Abbott: We know the Prime Minister can do a deal, because she’s done a whole series of dodgy deals with the Greens and others. Heh, never been any doubt about this Prime Minister’s ability to do a deal. The important thing is to get the right policy in place, that’s what she’s been bad at. Now reopening Nauru is the right policy, and that’s why we will facilitate anything that enables the Government swiftly to reopen Nauru and Manus.


Faine: And likewise also establish a regional processing centre with appropriate safeguards in Malaysia. Do you accept that part of the package which Scott Morrison would not concede this morning on AM. Why not?


Abbott: Because Angus Houston said that Malaysia as it stands is unacceptable.


Faine: As it stands. But there’s no reason to leave it as it stands. It’s a dynamic situation. It’s not forever as it stands.


Abbott: So, so, Jon, you support Malaysia as it stands?


Faine: [Abbott laughs in the background] No, that’s not the issue, nor is it my question Mr Abbott. In the same way that Scott Morrison tried to verbal the Houston Committee, the issue is whether or not you can at some point establish a facility with appropriate safeguards in the future in Malaysia. Will you work towards that goal?


Abbott: Well, we believe that Malaysia, as it stands, is a dud deal for Australia…


Faine: … yes not as it stands…


Abbott: … and a cruelty for people…


Faine: … not as it stands, as it can be.


Abbott: [laughs] well, let’s wait and see whether this mythical new deal with Malaysia can ever be brought out, but, uh look, ah, my understanding is that the Government has somewhere between Buckley’s and no chance of getting a different deal with, ah, with Malaysia.


Faine: If you were Prime Minister would you pursue that as a future policy?


Abbott: No, we would, we, we believe that there are three essential ingredients to stopping the boats. Nauru is one, and ah, that’s great that the Prime Minister is now prepared to concede one out of the three essential ingredients to stopping the boats. The other, are temporary protection visas and the willingness to turn boats around where it’s safe to do so, now…


Faine: What about abolishing family reunion for people who obtain refugee status?


Abbott: I, I, I think that is a good thing to do, but the best way of achieving that would be with temporary protection visas because that means that the person who is accepted as a refugee can go back to his or her homeland should conditions in that country improve.


Fain: Isn’t it unduly harsh to say to someone you can establish a new life to save your soul in a new country, we will make you welcome, but you have to forever say goodbye to your family.


Abbott: Well that makes you a migrant, not an asylum seeker.


Faine: No it doesn’t


Abbott: Oh yes it does. Oh yes it does. If you’re coming here wanting family reunion you’re not an asylum seeker you’re a would-be migrant.


Faine: Not in the slightest, I don’t understand the conflation of those whatsoever.


Abbott: Well, Jon, the fact is that, um, er, the Houston Committee accepts that, ah, if you have not, ah, been granted refugee status, ah, and for whatever reason you do come to Australia, ah, you should come on a temporary basis. Now, I think that, ah, accepts the essential point that the Coalition has been making all along, that people shouldn’t be getting permanent residency, ah, and look, ah, our position consistently for a decade has been Nauru, temporary protection visas to deny the people smugglers a product to sell and the willingness to turn boats arounds where it’s safe to do so. Now, one out of three, which is what the Prime Minister is now offering, is a step in the right direction, and ah, ah, let’s hope that it makes the difference that we all so desperately want.


Faine: Thank you for your time this morning. Tony Abbott, leader of the Liberal Party, leader of the Opposition in Federal Parliament.


Audio available here:  afrankview.net/.../r988047_10879891.mp3

TalkTurkey

August 16. 2012 06:34 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thanks for the link to the Tony Windsor YouTube clip that I could play only after downloading the new version of Flash Player.  Wow, what a serve her gave Abbott, who looked stupid with that supercilious smile on his face.

That will go down in the history of this parliament as one of the most momentous.  No doubt Peta Credlin and her sidekicks will be scrambling to unscramble the egg on Abbot’s face.

Ad astra

August 16. 2012 06:47 PM

Michael

The following is the text presented as captions for the hearing impaired during Question Time today when Tony Windsor spoke.

(Occasionally these caption efforts 'mishear' what's been said, but you'll get the drift.)


I call the Member for New England. There's been a lot of discussion today about history. Two years ago it has been discussed here today that the Prime Minister made a certain comment in the run up to an election. As most of us would be aware the Prime Minister didn't win the election.She didn't win the election.She didn't win the election. This is a hung Parliament, you might learn a little bit of history here. The Member for New England has the right to be hear. As the Leader of the Opposition would know very well, as the Prime Minister would know very well, and the Deputy Prime Minister for that matter would know, the decision to do something about climate change, whether it be through an emissions trading scheme or a Carbon Pricing arrangement, but to put a price on carbon was a condition of the formation of Government. Now the Leader of the Opposition knows that very well because on a number of occasions he actually begged for the job - begged for the job. You've never denied it and you won't. He begged for the job and he made the point not only to me but to others that were in that negotiating period that he would do anything to get thatjob, anything to get that job. You would well remember - and your colleagues should billion aware - that the only codicil that you put on that is, "I will do anything to get this job, the only thing I wouldn't do is sell my arse." The Member for New England will resume his seat. The Manager of Opposition Business on a Point of Order. I hesitate to take a Point of Order on the Member for New England but he does have to at least make some attempt to talk to the suspension of Standing Orders rather than personal... The Manager of Opposition Business will resume his seat and perhaps everybody should read Hansard about personal vexatious issues. He must refer to the issue before the chair, which is the suspension. The Leader of the Opposition is well aware of the discussions that were held. It was a condition of the formation of Government. He was prepared to do anything if, in fact, he'd been called upon and if he had been asked to put in place an emissions trading scheme or a Carbon Tax for that matter , he would well have done it. The fact that he wasn't asked is something of very, very good judgment in my view. In terms of the substantive issue I support the suspension of Standing Orders because I think it is a debate that we should be very proud of. I'm very proud to have supported the price on carbon... I am very proud of supporting doing something about climate change and history will judge those who have had the guts to stand up and actually try to address what is a difficult issue in a difficult parliament. This man, the Leader of the Opposition, has quite prepared to do that if he'd been given the nod on that particular day. I will do anything, anything to get this job. They were the comments and people know that. They should know it because you're an absolute disgrace in the way in which you're wandering around in this particular issue. You have exactly the same target as the emissions trading scheme prizing arrangement, you have exactly the same target in terms of the 1990 levels by 2020 and you have the audacity to actually say to people that you are going to achieve that target through a much more expensive arrangement than putting a price on carbon. Particularly given the history that you've had in terms of this particular issue. John Howard was someone that I had disagreements with from time to time but at least he recognised that we have to do something in terms of emissions in this world. The opportunities that that exist in regional Australia in terms of the pricing arrangements and the clean energy funds et cetera, I would ask the Leader of the Opposition and others members within the chamber just look at the meat industry in the next few months and look at the way in which they are going to address some of these issues and it is all very well. Come back in a few months and tell me if I'm wrong. I don't mind that. There are enormous opportunities in terms of renewable energy. The members time and the debate's time has expired. I suggest we start to vote for the future.

The Member for New England's time has expired.

Michael

August 16. 2012 06:57 PM

2353

PatriciaWA - regret accepted and apologies for any hurt my comments caused you.

Lyn - thanks for the special link to Windsor's speech.  While it was obviously somewhere, someone special had to find it.  As usual - you did it.

Cafe Whispers has a photo of Credlin and Abbott in deep conversation posted this afternoon (from The Age).  AA's right in they'll be trying to unscramble the egg, will they lie low or go for a media firestorm (to selected friends).  Would love to be able to listen to a few of the phone conversations tonight - they would be priceless.

TT - thanks for the transcript of Jon Faine's interview with Abbott - amazing stuff.  Unfortunately we rarely get to hear him north of the Rio Tweed.  His book written about his overland trip to London is a good read as well.

If some of the reports are correct, this week won't have done much for Abbott's mental health (and he doesn't look well).  I hope that either the reports are wrong or someone is looking after his needs.  This country really doesn't need a "martyr" (in the literal sense) to the conservative cause.  It would be nice however if there was a by-election in a couple of months in the seat of Warringah Laughing.

2353

August 16. 2012 06:59 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad,

Glad you enjoyed the video clip.

Psyclaw thankyou for the Smilies.

The Drum on ABC 24 never mentioned Tony Windsor, but SBS just did.

Here is a link to Katherine Murphy's article posted  at 6.38pm.

Everybody should read Well worth your time in fact brilliant.

Scroll half way down for Question time pictures tweets, and video's ne Joe Hockey's tweet sarcastic.

Politics live: August 16, 2012
Katharine Murphy The Age

6.19pm: By the by, the Liberal Party has launched this new interwebs and social media ad to mark anniversary day

www.smh.com.au/.../...-16-2012-20120816-249r5.html

Lyn

August 16. 2012 07:03 PM

Tom of Melbourne

That’s nice Patricia. I recall that I was bothered by several of your comments/excuses. It all seems to put the political interests of the ALP in front of social issues.

Firstly you considered equal rights for gay people to be a low priority, and it was too difficult for the government.

Right, “progressive” people should withhold rights and a sense of exclusion from the traditional institutions of society.

Now, you vacillate about extending decent treatment of asylum seekers. Is there any recent variation of the ALP policy that you haven’t endorsed? Really, you just endorse every one of them as they come off the presses.

Tom of Melbourne

August 16. 2012 07:11 PM

Psyclaw


Sent this email to Morriscum a while back:

I just listened to Professor Ben Saull from Sydney University (Maritime Law) on ABC radio. He was asked about your piracy hyperbole.

He said that your claims were "absolutely preposterous". Further , he pointed out that since the rescue and "threats" did not take place in Australian waters, your call for the Australian government to pursue an action in piracy was equally preposterous.

Depending on where the events took place, Indonesia if in their waters, or the flag of the ship nation (Norway?) if in international waters, are the only nations with jurisdiction.

Yet again you show yourself to be completely dishonest, a disgrace, and unfit for high office. This latest effort of yours to demonise asylum seekers reflects your poor character.

Thankfully the people of Australia are slowly coming to realise this.

Psyclaw

August 16. 2012 07:16 PM

2353

^^^^
So it's ok to "vacillate" about voting, but it's not ok to change you mind based on further evidence TfM?

What a cop-out.  Changing of opinions based on some clarification or further evidence is the sign of a mind that has not stagnated.  AA may be able to suggest some reading for you on why you should be concerned if you find you never change your mind - it doesn't sound like a healthy practice to me.

2353

August 16. 2012 07:24 PM

Psyclaw



TT Comrade

Thanks so much for the Jon Faine interview. Great stuff. And fair!

Faine simply continued to ask Abbott to justify his mantras and Abbott could not.

Note the large number of double words  ("Well, well we did so and so.....") and numerous  "aaahs" as Abbott struggled to conjure up an excuse for each of his lies.

A dropkick if ever I saw one.

Psyclaw

August 16. 2012 07:55 PM

KHTAGH

Well folks that's how they do it, the most damaging SSOs orders debate against the Wing Nut & what do we get on 7:30 report, 5 seconds of the tamest quote from Tony Windsor possible, & that's the bloody ABC, FFS! what is this country coming to?

KHTAGH

August 16. 2012 08:24 PM

Lyn

Hi 2353

That's so nice of you thankyou 2353.

("Lyn - thanks for the special link to Windsor's speech.  While it was obviously somewhere, someone special had to find it.  As usual - you did it.")

SmileSmile

Lyn

August 16. 2012 09:13 PM

jaycee

With several distinguished citizens calling for an inquiry into Aust's participation into the Iraq war, it seems there is moves afoot to finally bring some justice to JWH.
This move is straight out of a chapter from "The Discourses of Titus Livius..translated by Nicolai Machiavelli".....quote : "If you desire to prosecute a powerful official, first remove him from office then deal with him as a private citizen" (a paraphrase)....I think there are those who believe it is time to "deal" with "Little Johnnie", after all, he has double-crossed those who raised him to office and betrayed the principles of his own party.

jaycee

August 16. 2012 09:20 PM

jane

Nas' @3.20pm, couldn't agree more.

ToM, you want pie in the sky.

Gillard has been trying without success for the last 2 years to get bipartisan support for a regional solution wrt asylum seekers.

To get it, she has to prove that the so-called Pacific Solution is a dog; then there will hopefully be a decent workable agreement hammered out.

It's never going to be perfect, but with luck it will be fair and decent and asylum seekers will get a fair go and we'll have another layer to our culture.

I can't wait.

jane

August 16. 2012 09:20 PM

Tom of Melbourne


More human rights inconveniences that would probably be annoying to the ALP “yes men (and women) here.

It would be an outrage if the UK police disregarded the sovereignty of Ecuador by raiding the embassy and arresting Assange.

The pretext foreshadowed by the UK, using a law from the 80s which was intended to allow the arrest of a murderer inside the Libyan, would be a crock.


•  Assange hasn’t been charged,
•  Swedish police said they’d dropped their investigation after he’d stayed on there for 6 weeks following the complaint,
•  the allegation (I think) involves consensual sex, but unprotected,
•  the extradition application is only for investigation and
•  Assange has offered to meet the investigators several times, just not in Sweden.

People should be quite bothered by this matter, and by the apathy of this government.

Tom of Melbourne

August 16. 2012 09:51 PM

Truth Seeker

Thanks to all for the links and transcripts.
TW said it all.  A great speech from a great man and politician.
I do so enjoy watching the Rabbot and the poodle squirm

TT Great posts today, back to your best.

Cheers

Truth Seeker

August 16. 2012 09:54 PM

Jason

ToM,
   " Assange hasn’t been charged," F off! is the same ToM who who thinks Thomson who also hassn't been charged shouldn't sit in the parliament?

Jason

August 16. 2012 10:12 PM

Ad astra

Folks
It’s been a long day so I’m off to watch Lateline.

I thought that ABC TV did a pretty poor job featuring the Windsor speech; let’s hope we get more on Lateline

Thank you Lyn and others for enabling those of us who missed today’s QT to see the highlight in all its splendor.

Ad astra

August 17. 2012 12:33 AM

DMW

Been stuck in another life since lunchtime yesterday and have now finally caught up with the comments here.

What a delight as I scrolled down the page to spot a blooning wonder at the 4:10 PM time mark

Welcome back stranger Smile

DMW

August 17. 2012 12:36 AM

DMW

Hi Jason,
I hope that the vampires treated you well today. Did you get bickies and was there any cream in them?

Re your comment @ 3:00 PM

Yes indeed Howard picked the weakness and wedged, dog whistled, wedged some more and spooked Labor.

One thing I still can't figure out is, for all intents and purposes, why Labor appears to have remained spooked and wedged for eleven years. But as you said ... like it or not we have what we have!

I very much doubt a landslide win to the opposition but the odds are certainly stacked against a Labor win at the moment. Doesn't say that can't or won't change.

Still there are actually real people working hard on assisting make Labor the best party it can be and that will result in the ALP being in government more often than not.

DMW

August 17. 2012 12:49 AM

DMW

by the way NK I have been working in small ways on your request.

The word is, in words similar to PJ Keating's, .. it is best done slowly ...

DMW

August 17. 2012 12:56 AM

TalkTurkey

KHTAGH Grasshopper said

Well folks that's how they do it, the most damaging SSOs orders debate against the Wing Nut & what do we get on 7:30 report, 5 seconds of the tamest quote from Tony Windsor possible, & that's the bloody ABC, FFS! what is this country coming to?

Yes there are many ways of telling the truth so that it is a lie, and the instance to which Grasshopper refers is a classic. Make no mistake that the procedure is fully and mischievously deliberate.

Grasshopper I think you are wise. I value your proouncements a lot. No wonder your forehead is so wrinkled.

TalkTurkey

August 17. 2012 01:31 AM

Patriciawa

Agree with you, KHTAGH, about 7.30 wash-out of the story of the day.  But they do that so often that one can't doubt deliberate bias by all involved in that program from Sales, Uhlmann and Ewert to everyone of their editorial team.  

I wrote as I have before complaining that there was no news item about Tony Windsor's strong words about Abbott and his willingness to do anything for the top job. A major sensation on Twitter, Facebook, the blogosphere and media outlets generally is ignored by our national news broadcaster!  

Yet another example of bias by the 7.30 team! If Sales and Uhlmann are two of Australia's most respected political broadcasters then God help parliamentary democracy here!
  

Patriciawa

August 17. 2012 07:09 AM

Lyn


Today’s Links

Windsor's shining moment in Question Time, Eleanor Bloom
the Leader of the Opposition, was quite prepared to do that if he'd been given the nod on that particular day. 'I will doanything, anything to get this job.' They were the comments and people know that and they should know it because you are an absolute disgrace in the way in which you're wandering around on this particular issue.
notesfromeleanorbloom.blogspot.com.au/.../windsors-shining-moment-in-question-time.html

Sunshine, Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery
In parliament today, Abbott again rose to suspend standing orders. But this time, the sun shined in. A summary follows thanks to @murpharoo’s blog in The Age It was a moment indeed. Abbott got his sunshine that he often demands. But it came directly reflected at him out of his own arse. ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/sunshine/

Dear Abbott- “do I need to remind you that the use of words in this is critical”, Frank, A Frank View
Faine: Tony Abbott is the leader of the Liberal Party, leader of the Opposition in Federal Parliament, and today they will decide exactly how far they will go in solving this problem, Mr Abbott, good morning to you. Abbott: G’day, how are you Jon?
http://afrankview.net/2012/08/1564/

What has Wayne Swan done to our economy now? Turn Left 2013
In 11 years of Liberal National Government there was no equivalent of the National Broadband (NBN) or National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS), all we got was a selling-off the farm and the “family silver”. Privatising profit and socialising loss, as the taxpayer had to bail out private company after private company, from the Ansett levy to John Howard’s own brother, whose economic failures were
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

Refugees and the Houston Report, Alan Austin, Independent Australia
The Houston report to the Gillard Government on asylum seekers released on Monday has upset virtually all combatants in the current political brawl. But it just might work.It rejects the Government’s arrangements within the region. The Malaysia solution ‘needs to be built on further’
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

Bailleu Takes The Axe To TAFE, Ben Eltham, New Matilda
In the regions, 100 jobs will go at Bendigo TAFE and the Kyneton campus will be closed. About 70 positions will be made redundant at Gippsland TAFE, and 26 job losses have been announced at Mildura-based Sunraysia TAFE. The University of Ballarat will also cut courses and staff, reducing its total TAFE activity by more than 30 per cent
newmatilda.com/2012/08/16/bailleu-takes-axe-tafe

The problem in the grid, Mike Sandiford, The Conversation
In the electricity game, the “poles and wires” have become the big issue. Even the Prime Minister has starting pointing the finger at excessive investment in the electrical power grid.
So what is it with the grid that has suddenly got the Prime Minister, and just about everyone else in the electricity game, so fired up?
theconversation.edu.au/the-problem-in-the-grid-8868

Windsor launches attack on 'disgrace' Abbott, Video ABC
The Opposition again interrupted Question Time to accuse the Prime Minister of lying over the carbon tax and asking her to apologise to the Australian people.But Mr Windsor repeated his claim that Mr Abbott told him during the negotiations after the last election that he would do almost anything to become prime minister
www.abc.net.au/.../4203518

Julia’s barrackers, Miglo, Café Whispers
Labor has delivered record increases to pensions and supported families through the Schoolkids Bonus and household assistance payments. All of it was opposed by Tony Abbott. That might explain why Jenny Macklin has not been asked a single question in nearly 18 months.
cafewhispers.wordpress.com/.../

Measuring the Internet, Jock Given, Inside Story
for example, to evaluations of the National Broadband Network. Just what people choose to do with much faster broadband is plainly a matter of big political significance, given the role the issue played in the 2010 election and the formation of a minority government. Since then, the Convergence Review has recommended that a new category
http://inside.org.au/measuring-the-internet/

The cost of offshore processing, Julian Burnside
A few diehard supporters of the Howard-Gillard philosophy of processing asylum claims think we will save money by sending them offshore At the risk of spoiling the argument, here are some facts (I will provide details when I am out of hospital and have time to research the current details):
http://www.julianburnside.com.au/costs.htm

Today’s Front Pages
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 17 August 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Lyn

August 17. 2012 07:30 AM

Janet

Wonderful as always Lyn, and thanks from a newbie here Smile.

Here's one more: Tony Wright on Tony Windsor at:

www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120816-24bix.html

Yay!

Janet

August 17. 2012 07:56 AM

Psyclaw


Lyn ..... the links  Smile  Smile  Smile

The conversation article is very interesting. Our power use is well down and falling, even when compared to projections as recent as 2009.... bloody carbon tax again!

I think that this reduction is more about the punters' realisation that it is in their own interests to use power wisely so the threat of an impending carbon price was probably in play.

Just as in the way user-pays for water drastically reduced water consumption, when compared to the old days when water "just" came to us, free of charge to be used as and how it befitted our mood, (a gift from Dog Albitey to this 'christian country') effective management of  power costs and usage  by the punter is possible, guided by self interest.

The writer urges an energy service model of power delivery, rather than a build-the-grid-so-that-it-can provide-any-required-peak-load model ie the gold plated version.

I think he is referring to the use of smart meters which allow consumer time shifting of their use, rewarded by cheaper tariffs when peak times are avoided, a topic I wrote about here last week.

On another matter, the Greens actually did something in the Senate last night. They moved a sunset clause of 12 months  amendment to the Houston bill. It failed.

And SH-Y said "I have no idea how you people (other senators) sleep at night". .... too verbose ...... eliminate the last six words.

Psyclaw

August 17. 2012 08:16 AM

2353

Looky here - an opinion piece from Godwin Grech.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120816-24bk1.html

He doesn't like Turnbull (or the ALP).  You'd have to wonder if he is still in the same fantasyland that convinced him to falsify emails.  Pity it's not open for comments Laughing

2353

August 17. 2012 08:17 AM

Lyn

Hi Janet

Welcome to "The Political Sword" we need you. Ad Astra will come along shortly he will be very pleased to see you here.

Thankyou for posting a valuable link for us, we love all the information we can get.

Yay! as you say to these couple of paragraphsSmile

("Tony Abbott was not about to let that pass without a celebratory bout of denunciation.

He did not calculate, however, on the independent warhorse Tony Windsor dumping a bucket of fermented recollection upon his merriment.

Hardly had Abbott finished a tirade concerning the numerous reasons why Ms Gillard should apologise to the Australian people for leading them up the carbon path")
www.smh.com.au/.../...e-abbott-20120816-24bix.html

SmileSmileSmile

Lyn

August 17. 2012 08:20 AM

nasking


Just a quick pop-in.

Thnx for the links Lyn.

Noticed this:

Refugee threat deserved SAS response - Abbott

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120816-24bgj.html

Imagine how Abbott would use SAS, troops and fed police alongside his Coalition state mates to squash protesting workers under his austerity measures…or demonstrators…or Indigineous people who resisted his uber religious style of intervention?

Frightening.


Tony Abbott: nasty to the core

cafewhispers.wordpress.com/.../#comment-100199


Abbott seems to enjoy being nasty. He obviously has a big chip on his shoulder.

You can imagine how an Abbott government would treat its critics. And those who don’t fit into its extreme religious and workplace ideological views.

This is one nasty culture warrior. A divider of the worst kind.

It would be like having a Tea Party evangelist as American president.

N’

nasking

August 17. 2012 08:23 AM

2353

And here's a story (about tricking the Apple fans) that is interesting from a point of view of how a story gets "credibility".

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120816-249v1.html

2353

August 17. 2012 08:34 AM

nasking


2353,
if Godwin Grech is opining via the MSM ya just know the Abbott forces are getting worried.

The man had no credibility as far as I'm concerned.

I still reckon Grech was used by Howard & Abbott to setup Turnbull...undermine and humiliate him. They are Machiavellian types...always scheming.

Turnbull was naive and stupid to fall for it. A hard lesson learnt.

I reckon Abbott will be out on his arse soon enuff. The man is loathed and not trusted by too many voters. This nasty wrecking ball has nothing to offer.

Nor his threatening Treasurer...the one who smiles like a child who just stole your candy apple, ate the sweet part and put the yucky decayed apple back in you pocket...

yes, Mr. (needs to be liked) Ozsterity Measures Hockey.

N'

nasking

August 17. 2012 08:35 AM

jaycee

Here is an example of the duplicitous nature of the MSM. Last night on ABC. 7.30, there was the watered down version of Windsor's moment. On lateline we saw the Full Monty. So there we have the media ajudicating how a story is delivered, all the while protesting that THEY do not create the news, but only deliver it. YET!..here we have a system of subjective choosing of content and timing of delivery. The Opposition have used the media to a) programme content (choice of part or full story) b)time the delivery of story (when audience is largest or smallest) c)organise and fund "news events" (carbon rallys etc.) d) become apologists for favoured political parties (ommitting or obfuscating news reports)
The MSM. has become morrally culpable in the dumbing down of climate change issues, LNP. lies and deceptions and deliberate cowardice in witholding interrogation of the LNP.s non-policy moments.

jaycee

August 17. 2012 08:42 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

August 17. 2012 08:47 AM

Ad astra

Janet
Welcome to The Political Sword family, and thanks for the Tony Wright link.  Do come again.

Ad astra

August 17. 2012 09:14 AM

paul walter

Well put, ToM.

paul walter

August 17. 2012 09:14 AM

nasking


A must read:

Why conservatives prefer Blond

Britain may be able to teach us about winning gold medals, but Australia shouldn't be taking lessons on how to run our government.

Professional pontificator Phillip Blond, the intellectual force behind the Cameron government's social policies, is currently touring Australia trying to sell his vision of a "Big Society" where government gets out of the way and communities take care of themselves.

The question of what happens to communities that can't help themselves might best be answered by a trip to the declining former industrial towns in the north of England, or the housing estates of London.

The "Big Society" has been seized on by the Cameron government as its feel-good justification for massive public sector job cuts in the United Kingdom, as it tries to implement an austerity program which has seen the UK economy stuck in neutral for two years.

Cameron's Coalition government has begun to implement cuts that will see over $150 billion cut from public spending in the UK, including cuts to welfare payments. A public servant has been made redundant every minute of every day, and departmental budgets have been cut by 19 per cent.


much more here:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4200650.html

I haven't watched Q&A for mths...my wife is grateful...as is my blood pressure.

N'

nasking

August 17. 2012 09:21 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad & Everybody

I have collected a few stories regarding Abbott/Windsor:

Abbott denies begging to become PM
The Australian - ‎58 minutes ago‎
I didn't beg for the job: Abbott
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59nqgy-1226452231089

The Australian - ‎30 minutes ago‎
The Opposition Leader this morning hit back at Mr Windsor who yesterday launched a blistering attack on Mr Abbott in parliament. Mr Windsor said during the negotiations following the last federal election Mr Abbott told him he would do anything but "sell my ..
. www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59nqgy-1226452231089

Abbott denies begging to become PM
Mr Windsor claimed in federal parliament on Thursday that during failed negotiations to form minority government in 2010, Mr Abbott said: "I will do anything, Tony, to get this job. The only thing I wouldn't do is sell my arse." Mr Abbott said he never uttered ...
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn3dxiwe-1226452250017Hind sight: cheeky history lesson for Abbott

Sydney Morning Herald - ‎1 hour ago‎
THERE is no polite way to say it. Tony Abbott's arse, and the question of its saleability, has once again inched its way to the forefront of the national political debate. It started innocently enough. Question time was arrested, as it so often is, by an appeal from ...
www.smh.com.au/.../...t-20120816-24bgi.htmlMessage by Tony express: you're a disgrace, Abbott!

Sydney Morning Herald - ‎1 hour ago‎
Independent MP Tony Windsor launches a withering attack in parliament on Opposition Leader Tony Abbott, calling him "an absolute disgrace". Autoplay OnOff; Video feedback; Video settings. IT WAS the second anniversary of Julia Gillard's famous promise ...
www.smh.com.au/.../...t-20120816-24bix.htmlWindsor lets fly at Abbott

Brisbane Times - ‎3 hours ago‎
Windsor lets fly at Abbott (05:09). Independent MP Tony Windsor launches a withering attack in parliament on Opposition Leader Tony Abbott, calling him "an absolute disgrace". 16/08/12. Windsor launches fierce attack on Abbott; Jacqueline Maley: Hind ...
media.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...3559989.htmlTony Abbott would have taxed carbon: Tony Windsor

The Australian - ‎8 hours ago‎
INDEPENDENT Tony Windsor has lashed out at Tony Abbott, accusing the Opposition Leader of being willing to do anything but "sell his arse" as he begged to be prime minister during power negotiations in 2010, declaring that Mr Abbott would have ..
. www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226452131810House orders arse about face

The Australian - ‎8 hours ago‎
In the rough-house atmosphere of this 43rd parliament, it is a bit like charging Al Capone with tax evasion. Just about every other insult is hurled around the chamber but the Deputy Speaker, Anna Burke, is forced to insist anyone who uses the "l" word ...
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frgd0x-1226452118062Windsor takes aim at Abbott

Sky News Australia - ‎8 hours ago‎
Independent MP Tony Windsor says the opposition's claim Julia Gillard 'lied' to voters about the carbon tax is wrong, because no one won the 2010 election and whoever took minority government knew they had to commit to carbon pricing. As parliament ...
www.skynews.com.au/.../article.aspx wrap: August 16, 2012

The Age (blog) - ‎9 hours ago‎
Welcome to our live coverage of politics from the national capital. All times in AEST. You can also follow me on Twitter @murpharoo. 7.10pm: Ok folks, let's pull up stumps with the evening summary. The Senate is grinding on. We know the end of this particular ..
. www.theage.com.au/.../...0120816-249r5.htmlWindsor calls out Abbott: 'You'd do anything but sell your arse'

Herald Sun - ‎11 hours ago‎
Independent MP Tony Windsor says that Opposition Leader Tony Abbott would do almost anything to be Prime Minister. "If he had been asked to put in place an emissions trading scheme or a carbon tax, for that matter, he would have done it," independent ...
www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-fndo48ca-1226452005882Windsor launches fierce attack on Abbott

Brisbane Times - ‎13 hours ago‎
Independent MP Tony Windsor launches a withering attack in parliament on Opposition Leader Tony Abbott, calling him "an absolute disgrace". Autoplay OnOff; Video feedback; Video settings. Independent MP Tony Windsor has launched a fierce attack on ...
www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...-24b2e.htmlWindsor launches attack on 'disgrace' Abbott

ABC Online - ‎15 hours ago‎
Independent MP Tony Windsor has launched a furious attack on Opposition Leader Tony Abbott in Federal Parliament. The Opposition again interrupted Question Time to accuse the Prime Minister of lying over the carbon tax and asking her to apologise to ...
www.abc.net.au/.../4203518Abbott moves to censure Gillard over 'massive betrayal' on carbon tax

NEWS.com.au - ‎15 hours ago‎
The move to suspend regular proceedings is the first for the opposition since parliament resumed after a six-week midwinter break. Mr Abbott said Ms Gillard must apologise to the Australian people for breaking her promise to not introduce a carbon tax during ...
www.news.com.au/.../story-fndo4eg9-1226451959615Abbott moves to censure Gillard

Ninemsn - ‎16 hours ago‎
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has moved to censure Prime Minister Julia Gillard over what he calls her "massive betrayal" in introducing the carbon tax. The move to suspend regular proceedings is the first for the opposition since parliament resumed after a ...
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8517397

SmileSmile

Lyn

August 17. 2012 09:36 AM

nasking


www.smh.com.au/.../...r-abbott-20120816-24bgi.html

N'

nasking

August 17. 2012 10:16 AM

Psyclaw


Swordsters

"People should be quite bothered by this (Assange) matter, and by the apathy of this government."

A couple of years ago like many world leaders and other hi profile persons, JG rushed in where devils fear to tread and came out all guns firing that what Assange had done in his first big Wiki release was illegal.

That was a mistake on her part.

However as to the current situation, nations do not become involved in crimes committed by their citizens in other countries, nor do they become involved when two other countries are in a diplomatic bun fight which is soley between those countries.

To suggest otherwise is naivety at least, and dangerous at worst.

Such a suggestion is identical to the unrealistic and poorly considered suggestions of the Greens.

Psyclaw

August 17. 2012 10:16 AM

42 long

Fairly muted response (if any at all) to the Windsor allegations, that address the BIG lie by Abbott about the Big lie by Julia . This is the whole thrust of Tony's attempt to discredit her and claim "legitimate" government  because her word cannot be trusted.
  I heard someone say (We'll get you for this")during the ABC telecast, and of course THEY will. Don't forget someone tampered with the brake lines on Oakshott's Campsign bus.
  How about sexism too?
  Chrissy Pyne must have used the word "BRAZEN" referring to Julia at least 10 times when describing the PM's manner of doing things. Do MEN do things in a brazen manner is it got something to do with unpleasant women?
   Thhis trashing of Question time for " The Advert for free that money Can't buy" should be seen for the opportunism it is and there should be some procedural way to bring it to an end.
   Abbott is a Bully and gets away with a lot  smear and straight out CHARACTER ASSASSINATION of the PM under parliamentary privilege. Outside of parliament he would perhaps have the authenticity of his word challenged. The sort of harrassment that goes on in parliament would not be permitted in any other workplace
   Is the purpose of parliamentary privilege intended to be applied this way? I would have thought it was more likely to permit people like senator Xenophon bring up matters of child molestation against the Catholic Church, or Police Corruption etc.
   Windsor shone a ray of illumination yesterday upon the Man who would be the prime minister of this country. ( If we collectively are crazy or neglectfull enough to allow him.)
  None of us know what sort of person he is, and the more i see the more I am concerned. You can't trust this man and the team he leads.
  Why? He deals in half truths and is impossible to pin down. Who really understands him? We Know he WANTS to be PM. That could even be a good reason not to give it to him, because he is obviously capable of being bought. He is NO statesman. He doesn't speak well and doesn't appear to be particularly knowledgeable in any subject and doesn't respect anyone who is knowledgeable. I could write a book on his deficiencies let alone what his policies might be.
   I went to see David Attenborough last night and the comparison is stark between the two "men".
  As far as I'm concerned if Tones does have to sell  his ares, it might be a good deal because you would get 2 for the price of 1,

42 long

August 17. 2012 10:17 AM

MWS

The Godwin Grech article in the Brisbane Times is currently open for comment.  The four comments so far a overwhelmingly negative to Grech.

Thanks to Lyn for her daily links.  I enjoy the articles, but Lyn's contributions keep me coming back.

MWS

August 17. 2012 10:17 AM

Lyn

Hi Ad & Everybody

Sorry about those above stories the SMH,The Age & The Brisbane Times
have mucked up their links, not not me they did it:-

Thankyou Nasking, 2353 and Janet your links are fine:-

Here is replacements for the broken links:-

Hind sight: cheeky history lesson for Abbott
www.smh.com.au/.../...r-abbott-20120816-24bgi.html

Message by Tony express: you're a disgrace, Abbott
www.smh.com.au/.../...e-abbott-20120816-24bix.html

Politics wrap: August 16, 2012
www.theage.com.au/.../...-2012-20120816-249r5.html

Abbott denies begging to become PM
www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-e6frf7kf-1226452250017

Windsor launches fierce attack on Abbott
www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...20120816-24b2e.htm

Lyn

August 17. 2012 10:18 AM

TalkTurkey

Jason said
ToM,
   " Assange hasn’t been charged," F off! is the same ToM who who thinks Thomson who also hassn't been charged shouldn't sit in the parliament?


Jason can take ToMs out with just one punch!

TalkTurkey

August 17. 2012 10:26 AM

Tom of Melbourne

The point was so petty and nonsensical I didn’t bother with it. However I haven’t suggested that Thomson is anything other than entirely unsuitable to be an MP.

Any parallel is ludicrous, as are the plasticine standards that exist among most here.

Tom of Melbourne

August 17. 2012 10:28 AM

DMW

Something I missed in amongst all the hoo-haa

From the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade
On 13 August 2012 the Minister for Foreign Affairs, The Hon Senator Bob Carr, asked the Committee to inquire into and report on Slavery, Slavery like conditions and People Trafficking.
www.aph.gov.au/.../index.htm

Well done Mr Carr, we can only hope that with some focus on the real People Smugglers, the ones that are doing illegal and immoral things some perspective may be gained.

DMW

August 17. 2012 10:33 AM

Pappinbarra Fox

I have been a lurker on this site for quite some time. I only made one of two comments in the past. I appreciated this site for its intelligent and thoughtful consideration of the issues. I also appreciate this site because it is being more or less abuse free. There doesn't seem to be the sledging and slanging matches that have occurred on other sites. Therefore I am disappointed to see on this particular issue rather pointless and unintelligent slagging off of other commentator.
The asylum seeker issue has been a complex one that really does require very careful consideration of all of the pros and cons. In my mind the advantage of saving lives at ways to disadvantage that male may not apply to human rights and people are processed at a place other than within Australia. All of the other arguments about queue jumpers and rent seekers and economic migrants of referral to the need to have people who ostensibly are fleeing persecution in their own countries arrive safely and the life. I'm still not convinced that the solution to the problem has now been arrived at. And this is simply because even to get to may rue or possibly Manus Island people will still need to get onto boats. By the way we talk about Manus Island I was working on par with New Guinea when Mekere Mourata the Prime Minister at the time was seduced by John Howard's $20 million to abrogate (or to put it another way crash) the Papua New Guinea Constitution. This Constitution contains many human rights within it one of which states that a person shall not be incarcerated unless they have been convicted in a duly constituted court of a an offence against a written law. There is no doubt that the refugees were incarcerated on Manus Island as indeed they were incarcerated on a room as well. They had committed no offence against any written law of Papua New Guinea.

Thank you Mr Astra for providing this site and thank you to most of the contributors for not sledging people. Those who has pledged to in this column please refrain from doing so in future. It achieves nothing. Really.

Pappinbarra Fox

August 17. 2012 10:36 AM

Pappinbarra Fox

Apologies for the many typo errors in that post of mine, but you will get the gist of it I hope.

Pappinbarra Fox

August 17. 2012 10:38 AM

TalkTurkey

NormanK
Good to see you lifting a bit. Your skills and input are appreciated here.

I know a rose is a rose and all that but I think your sister's-name rose looks almost like a dahlia.

TalkTurkey

August 17. 2012 10:40 AM

2353

P Fox - thanks for the post.  I wondered why ABC 24 this morning was reporting there is no guarantee that Manus Island wold open again now I know.

It's a interesting little sideline to the main game.

2353

August 17. 2012 10:45 AM

Michael

Oh goody, Godwin Grech has come out to back arse-selling Abbott in the same 24 hours as Tony Windsor confirmed that Shouldabeen is 'arse-selling Abbott'.

And best of all, Godwin has exposed his inside knowledge (did him a lot of good last time) that John Howard as Governor-General and Janette as the real Governor General, just as she was the real PM, is the plan for a frolicsome future of Conservative bright horizons (empty of boats, too).

Go, Godwin, go!

www.smh.com.au/.../...den-days-20120816-24bk1.html

Michael

August 17. 2012 11:28 AM

TalkTurkey

Psyclaw said
A couple of years ago like many world leaders and other highIsoldien  profile persons, JG rushed in where devils fear to tread and came out all guns firing that what Assange had done in his first big Wiki release was illegal.

That was a mistake on her part.


I have always said so, from very Day 1. Swordsfolks will know that there is nobody more unswervingly loyal to *J*U*L*I*A* than I but she was wrong wrong wrong then, not as a matter of opinion but as a matter of fact, she is a lawyer and would know that what I say is true. It could not be illegal until so proven at law.  

I do not believe that this Government which I so strongly support in almost every other way has been convincingly proactive in protecting Julian Assange. And I must make plain my disappoinment with the lack of interest shown in the issue on The Political Sword, and in some cases the downright hostility to Assange himself, for reasons which seem to me no better than skin-deep. I ask you all to re-appraise, before it is finally too late and all my worst predictions are realised. I don't want Assange imprisoned in the US just to prove I was right all along!  

Let the lying distorting elements of the Right note this, than I am as determined to defy my Party's position where it is seriously at variance with my own beliefs, as I am to defend it where I do. Were it otherwise my voice would be valueless.

In the matter of Assange, as always, I am in his corner. I wish other Australians, Swordsfolks in particular, were as motivated to defend the rights of this man as they should be to any Australian national.

He is convicted of nothing. The pressures brought to bear on him are unprecedented and unconscionable. Psyclaw is one of the few here who have supported him at all, Folks, won't you please take another look at your prejudices? This man is subject to the USA's equivalent of a FATWAH - and it does us no credit to ignore that.

I can't fight any harder.


TalkTurkey

August 17. 2012 11:30 AM

LadyInRed

I am so chirpy this morning I have to write this before reading all the posts and Lyn's link.

Cassidy writing a decent article....yipppeee. And the lovely, the wonderful, the show stopping Tony Windsor if he were here I would give a great big kiss!

Ad astra the Energiser bunny must be drumming past the speed of light at the turn of events. The fortunes of Abbott are over. He wont be able to keep it together under proper scrutiny, I am betting he will lose his compossure mighty quick when people start talking him to task. He has had suchj a free ride for so long cracks will, and are, starting to emerge. The Lib's will be thinking of dumping him as he is getting past his use-by-date. And Piney the Whiney, Julie Bishop and all his little accolites will be put to the back bench where they belong!

LadyInRed

August 17. 2012 11:34 AM

KHTAGH

Move over TT I stand with you too, on all you have just said.

KHTAGH

August 17. 2012 11:35 AM

TalkTurkey

Psyclaw,sorry about messing your quote in line 1, that weird word jumped somehow from recaptcha.

But Bravo Comrade, for covering my back.

TalkTurkey

August 17. 2012 11:35 AM

DMW

Good Morning 2353,
re Manus Island, there have been a few reports on ABC Radio, and probably other places, about the response by various people in PNG to the latest proposal.

PNG MP threatens legal challenge over Manus ABCNews
A senior member of Papua New Guinea's government says he will take legal action to block moves by Australia to again send asylum seekers to Manus Island for processing.
...
National Capital District Governor Powes Parkop, a member of Prime Minister Peter O'Neill's coalition government, said detaining people who have not been charged would constitute a breach of the country's constitution.
...
"You know, not only is Australia trying to get us to break our own Constitutional law, but it's trying to get us to adopt that particular culture that is alien to us."

www.abc.net.au/.../4198406

There have been some who have cautiously welcomed the proposal but have questioned Australia's attitude and presumption that PNG would do our bidding without hesitation.

DMW

August 17. 2012 11:48 AM

jaycee

On reading quite thoroughly on other blogs and the MSM. on the opp's policy direction and the elevation and protection given to Tabbott, I feel we (the Nation) are being driven toward our Mussolini moment where a dumb-arse leader is put in place so others can direct a corporate state....All the policy bits and pieces (strange they are never fully articulated) from the opposition about "small govt'" and "less red-tape" for corporations etc. tell me that there is intent by the Liberal Party and with both assistance AND plain dumb/blind media promotion, that a future govt' by FASCISM is the intent.
There is no there word to describe the direction, nor the intent but plain, pure, deliberate FASCISM.
The NEW LIBERALS are the NEW FASCISTS!....Tabbott is the NEW MUSSOLINI!

jaycee

August 17. 2012 12:19 PM

TalkTurkey

MWS (welcome)
said
Thanks to Lyn for her daily links.  I enjoy the articles, but Lyn's contributions keep me coming back.
MWS

Lyn is at the very core of online political information exchange now, I know she is a bit awed by that and it takes huge amounts of time, but fortunately for the rest of us she does love what she does for others, she does it for the Left, the Labor Party and good governance of our homeland. No-one is in the slightest doubt as to her vital presence to The Political Sword, she is our - erm ? What is the exact opposite of 'Secret Weapon'?
    
Just letting her know you utilize her work is all the reward she wants. But better still retweet or repost her links, talk her up on other sites because the more people who hear the Tweets of Tweety the more savyy the whole political 5th Estate becomes. The more people come here to TPS and read Ad astra's calm rational insightful thoughts, and those of the rest of us - we're not claiming genius status, but by the living Dog I'd trust what I read and find here before anything I'm going to find on the MSM. Better writtenm ore fun, greater variety, fresher. I am dismayed altogether by the ABC's open and extreme bias. That's why TPS, and Lyn in particular, are so precious.  


TalkTurkey

August 17. 2012 12:40 PM

TalkTurkey

I wonder when we might hope to hear next from the Hon. Rob Oakeshott MP (Ind) Member for Lyne and one of the finest pepole this country has ever bred. Because even more than Tony Windsor, (in the sense that he's younger), he has staked his future on the Good Ship Decency, rather tahn the pirate vessel Expedient. He has a young family, he has been subject to threats and hate mail, he has taken and is taking a lot of aggravation for his principles. His name is already writ large in Australian Political History, with a Big Gold Star.

Will Rob Oakeshott let fly at Abbortt as Tony Windsor did?
- I doubt it . . . I think he will find his own way of making his feelings clear, and I doubt not it that it will be poignant when he does so.

I said this of TW yesterday . . . I say it of Oakeshott now . . . Thank the living Dog for an Australia that has such people in it.

TalkTurkey

August 17. 2012 12:49 PM

BSA Bob

So we learn that the notably apolitical Godwin Gretch feels an Abbott Prime Ministership complemented by a Howard Governor Generalship would be a fine thing for the country.
Risible, except for the fact that a significant portion of the Right is now looking forward to decades of opportunity to inflict such as this on the country.
I do wish those bloody journalists would start doing their jobs.

BSA Bob

August 17. 2012 12:53 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Oakeshott is a verbose, self-important dill, loathed in his electorate for good reason.

The good people of Port Macquarie only got the 30 second versions of him before 2010, now they’ve experienced the real thing.

I’ve never seen a swing in public sentiment against an individual like this one. His poster was displayed in about a third of Port shops, and maybe one in ten houses. A year later, despised, and it hasn’t improved again in the next year.

He’ll turn bitter-  because once he loses his seat, he’s unemployable.

Tom of Melbourne

August 17. 2012 12:55 PM

Tom of Melbourne

His poster was displayed in about a third of Port shops, and maybe one in ten houses (during the 2010 election)

Tom of Melbourne

August 17. 2012 01:07 PM

Jason

ToM,
   "I’ve never seen a swing in public sentiment against an individual like this one."

I know I'm a bit slow today but what swing against him? Was a poll or something done?

Jason

August 17. 2012 01:11 PM

DMW

... and for an overseas perspective on downunder.

Australian politicians demand inquiry into Iraq invasion Richard Norton-Taylor @ guardian.co.uk,
Former PM and defence chiefs call for independent investigation into Australia's role in lead-up to the war.
Leading Australian politicians and former defence chiefs are demanding an independent investigation, along the lines of the Chilcot inquiry in Britain, into their country's role in the invasion of Iraq.
They say an independent inquiry must investigate the circumstances that led the then National-Liberal coalition to participate in the US-led invasion in 2003 in which Australia contributed 2,000 troops, including special forces. It must also conduct a review of the war powers of the government, and draw lessons for the future.

www.guardian.co.uk/.../australian-politicians-inquiry-iraq-invasion

DMW

August 17. 2012 01:25 PM

DMW

ToM
Oakeshott is a verbose, self-important dill, loathed in his electorate for good reason.

Gees, you have described a great number of politicians and more often than not they are re-elected.

Come to think about it you have also described a good number of people who comment on blogs.

When it comes to the next election Oakeshott stands a good chance of being re-elected as he has serviced his electorate and direct comparisons with adjoining electorates show that people are served poorly by their National Party representatives.

DMW

August 17. 2012 01:36 PM

LadyInRed

ToM

I'm with jason on this one. Unless you have done a poll and can show us the stats and the way it was conducted all you have added to the debate is your thoughts based on what you have seen in a few shop windows and a few houses. I believe it is called conjecture.

Tweety pie - great links as always.

LadyInRed

August 17. 2012 01:52 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad

Twitterati for you;-


Windsor dials up Abbott tension ,  August 17, 2012 - 12:57PM , Richard Willingham
Outspoken independent MP Tony Windsor has hinted that he could in future release phone messages to back up his claims that Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's begged to be prime minister after the 2010 election.
Mr Abbott, meantime has accused Mr Windsor of being embarrassed at putting Labor into power .
After his spray at Mr Abbott, Mr Windsor sat down and pointed to his phone, indicating he evidence to prove what happened during post-election negotiations to form govern
www.theage.com.au/.../...nsion-20120817-24csm.html

Sky News Australia‏
Abbott denies begging to become PM http://bit.ly/PvEf7P

MrBlackRabbit‏
Biggest political news story breaking in coming weeks. Tony Windsor's phone. #AUSPOL @jesswrightstuff @rwillingham

Mad_Monk‏
Link to Tony Windsor's contact page for those wishing to send msgs of support: http://www.tonywindsor.com.au/contact.html

AshGhebranious‏
Maybe Windsor will play you the recording on the blackberry for you Kerry #breakfastnews #abcnews24

AshGhebranious‏
If the PM was called the disgrace, it would be on the front page with a really big photo #arsegate #auspol

Mr Denmore‏
Only in bad journalism do people 'launch scathing attacks' and 'unleash bitter tirades'. Hint to the ABC: just report what Windsor said.

Peter‏
Mr Windsor should play his Abbott text message to the whole population and then everyone will know what a barefaced,lieing knob Abbott is.

D.R.Davis‏
Why for godsake is Godwin Grech given space to write bilge about a return to the supposedly halcyon 50s (under a Abbott/Howard ethos

Andrew Elder‏@awelder@MrDenmore
It reported Windsor's attacks as 'scathing', then reported how Abbott appeared unscathed. No, me neither.

Brigadier Slog‏
Then Tony Abbott is lying. LibSpill? RT @newsdotcomHQ: Abbott denies begging for top job #arsegate

Mr Denmore‏
The fact is Windsor stepped outside the politico-media bubble and spoke the truth. The gallery doesn't like that

Pteropus100‏
Tony Abbott has an obligation to educate and inform the public - not mislead them, writes ABC's Barrie Cassidy #auspol  www.abc.net.au/.../4203120
Insiders presenter Barrie Cassidy says the media has failed to hold Opposition Leader Tony Abbott to account for his prevarications on asylum seekers and the carbon tax.
When Jon Faine interviewed Tony Abbott on ABC's 774 on Tuesday, something unusual happened.

Chris Barrett‏@selga55
Going to be a tough few years #LNPlies Public servants' union prepared for pay freeze trade-off www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0120816-24b7h.html via brisbanetimes

National Times‏@NationalTimesAU  Godwin Grech
Public sector needs to be more accountable, says Grech www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0120816-24bj0.html

Lyn

August 17. 2012 02:00 PM

LadyInRed

P Fox

I understood what you were saying and appreciate your input. I am with the people of Manus on this, if the people don't want a processing centre on their island then they should have a say. Quite frankly I can't imagine any island really wanting to have a centre such as this.....but money is a big lure. let's hope that they are only temporary and that Malaysia, while also not perfect, becomes the preferred solution. At least the people will be free and hopefully our protection.

LadyInRed

August 17. 2012 02:07 PM

Pappinbarra Fox

T of M, My name might suggest I know a bit about the good people of Port Macquarie and actually Oakshot is well liked by people of all political persuasions n the Hastings Valley. I didn't like him when he first arrived on the scene (coming as he did from the far right) but that was pre-judging him and now that I can jusge him on his actual performance, as others in this grand electorate are doing he will probably be returned with an increased majority.

Pappinbarra Fox

August 17. 2012 02:09 PM

KHTAGH

I just came across this comment on one off Lyn's links & thought it was worth repeating here.

    I hail from the UK and I can't believe the pro-Lib bias in this country. Jeez, where are all the hard-core journos, where are all the papers?....oh yeah, there AREN'T ANY. Whenever I hear any of your independent MPs talking (with the exception of that Katter raving loonie bloke) they all seem so sensible, so grounded.....so refreshing. They actually seem to care about their electorate and are able to articulate actual policies. Abbott and Pine are like rabid dogs in contrast - you really trust them to run your country??? Seriously, I'm a newcomer here and even I can see that Abbott and his pals are very right-wing. Hey, I'd vote for them if I were a mining billionaire: as I see it this is the profile of the the kind of people and business that the Liberal party are keen to suck up to - not ordinary people earning with normal incomes and lives. Revoke the Mining Tax - are you nuts?? The mining companies have been given a free ride with Labor, and they know it. They should be paying a damn sight more tax. Australians you need to get real. Labor is clearly much more of a people's party and they've introduced some fantastic reforms - why they don't promote these more is beyond me....oh, silly me, I forgot - the right-wing controls the media in this country. They have to, because I've never heard Abbott being grilled by any journos and everyone accepts that he stands for dumb criticism and not much else. Some manifesto, eh? And no, I'm neither Communist nor Anarchist, but I do subscribe to Australia's "Fair Go" ethic - it's just a pity it's not widely subscribed to in your political and media arenas.

Commenter
    AitchBee
Location
    Melbourne
Date and time
    Aug 17, 2012, 10:19AM


Read more: www.smh.com.au/.../...e-abbott-20120816-24bix.html

Even the pommies can see what is going on.

KHTAGH

August 17. 2012 02:27 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I've been busy all morning, and will take a while to catch up.  I am now preparing the next piece.

Ad astra

August 17. 2012 02:29 PM

Tom of Melbourne

I visit Port Macquarie (and Coffs Harbour) quite regularly. I was there this time 2 years ago during the election campaign and I’ve never observed a local politician so popular. That’s why I’m advising of the widespread display of his election posters.

I’ve been back several times since (for my leisure interests). Oakeshott is deeply unpopular. The local polls (that he likes to dismiss) support the types of views that many acquaintances express to me.

He’s loathed, and he’ll be ousted when he next faces the electorate.

Tom of Melbourne

August 17. 2012 02:52 PM

Jason

ToM,
   I don't know what's more unbelievable some local poll you can't link to or your claim people talk to you!
  

Jason

August 17. 2012 03:06 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Mr Oakeshott's primary support in Lyne has dropped from 47.1 per cent at the time of the election, to 26 per cent.


www.abc.net.au/.../3596402


Right Jason, no doubt he’s had a recent 20% bounce, and is bound to be returned. But perhaps not.

Do you have some other information that proves that he is still popular?

Tom of Melbourne

August 17. 2012 03:11 PM

Jason

ToM,
   Perhaps you didn't see my original question where I asked " I know I'm a bit slow today but what swing against him? Was a poll or something done?"

No need to get excited!

Jason

August 17. 2012 03:14 PM

42 long

TT I am sure I have posted pro Assange before but don't worry. I feel the apathy in this area is shamefull. Other countries people are Protesting outside the Ecuador embassy. Where are we.?
  Julia was wrong at Law initially on this issue. I am perplexed as to why there is not much support. USA puts pressure on it's allies. USA bullied New Zealand over the Nuclear subs issue. New Zealand is a democracy and lost a very large amount of people in the 2nd world war. US should not have treated them like that just because they elected a leftish government. Ecuador would have a good reason for it's point of view, and little to gain except a reputation for Integrity. All power to them. I respect them for it.
   For Britain to suggest a violation of the embassy rights was a poor call which they will regret making. It WAS a threat and could NOT be interpreted any other way.
   You have to accept that IF it is OK for Britain to violate the sanctity? of a foreign embassy, it is OK for students to take over the Iranian one.
  Regarding Assange and the "sexual" matters, there are no charges against him yet and the more you look into the details, the weirder it seems in Sweden. His reputation has been savaged already with the publicity which has been all over the newspapers there and it is of such a nature as to damage his right of a fair trial. Trial by media is not acceptable anywhere, ( though we get it all the time here courtesy of the MSM).
   One good thing about the recent development is that some attention is being focussed on the matter. It needed to be.

42 long

August 17. 2012 03:20 PM

Michael

How delicious might it be if Tony Abbott's phone records are as intriguing as he reckons Craig Thomson's are, enough in fact to have him under shared depth of scrutiny.

Will he wilt? Do flowers rot in the vase?

Michael

August 17. 2012 03:21 PM

Jason

ToM,
   I hate to be picky but your link is dated "Updated Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:50pm AEDT"

Today is the 17th of August 2012 do you have something a little more recent? It's 10 months old!

Jason

August 17. 2012 03:35 PM

Tom of Melbourne

That’s what I said Jason. Do you think Oakeshott has gained 20% recently?


He’s not well liked, and people there seem to think he misread his own electorate. It’s mainly retirees, small businesses and rural types. There is no industrial base, no core of ALP support.

I talk to people who used to display his poster during the election, they won’t be doing that again. My anecdotal view is entirely consistent with the polling.

Tom of Melbourne

August 17. 2012 03:36 PM

DMW

Jason
the internet is such a wonderful thing. Anybody without much effort can find a link to an article or time that proves them right beyond doubt.

When we all finally get hooked up to the NBN we will be able to cherry pick even faster Tong

DMW

August 17. 2012 03:48 PM

42 long

More likely the LNP who have sworn revenge on both windsor and Oakeshott, have ascess to media and the relentless "shockjocks misinformation campaign pays off. Of course it does . they wouldn't bl88dy do it iF it didn't.
  NSW is saturated with propaganda.
  Australia suffers mightily under a virtual monopoly in many areas. Croceries, for one but particularly the media.
  TfM, NOTHING you bring up here is any different from the views "out there" from the MSM. That is why your input rarely contributes anything here where most of us try to address the imbalance, which is "ALL pervading" except for a small opportunity for us to be heard . Tony will cut that off once he gets in. I have no idea where this "NUT" will stop. Do you?.
   Italy thought Benito was good at first, but the people unceremoniously dispensed with him later. We can't wiat that long today and some of us can see it coming.

42 long

August 17. 2012 03:53 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
I’m slowly catching up after being out much of the day.  I’m starting from the end with your Twitterati.

Barrie Cassidy’s piece is saying just what this piece is saying.  Could he have read it?

I note he didn’t mention the Windsor speech in that piece.  I expect it will be featured pretty fully on Insiders  It should be fun to watch.

Now of course Abbott is denying what Tony Windsor said, as you would expect a liar like Abbott to do.  But Windsor’s phone record will hang over Abbott’s head if he pushes too hard the line that he never said those words to Windsor.  Abbott never denied those words at the time, so whom would you believe – Tony Abbott, an inveterate and proven liar, or a man of integrity – Tony Windsor?

Ad astra

August 17. 2012 03:55 PM

Tom of Melbourne

"a man of integrity – Tony Windsor"

His electorate doens't seem to agree with you.

Tom of Melbourne

August 17. 2012 03:56 PM

DMW

Good Afternoon Ad,
I have been considering and reconsidering your comment @ August 16. 2012 02:33 PM and Psyclaw's comment @ August 16. 2012 12:16 PM which prompted it.

I am unsure of the frequency of the alleged expressed mission of TPS is to put the MSM to the sword when they exhibit unfair, untrue, unbalanced and misleading behavior.

The mission as expressed at the head of each post is Putting politicians and commentators to the verbal sword

Some could take the subtle visual clues that it is federal politicians and those that comment on federal politics who are to be put to the verbal sword and that the sword is to be thrust from the left toward the right dependant on which way they are facing.

If we go by the essence of the mission of the site as written then it would be reasonable for people to believe that anybody who comments here could be put the sword by any other commenter as they are mostly commentating on (federal) politics. Those that don't get the subtlty of the visual clues could see fit to put any and/or all politicians and commentators the sword no matter whether the are left, right, centre or calathumpian.

You wrote: TPS is intended to be a forum for balanced debate, built upon facts and sound reasoning.

Most of the commentary here including those that state a different point of view to the majority of commenters do come from that space. Of course there will always be exceptions as you pointed out later.

Psyclaw proposes, what at first blush seems a reaonable thing, that ... a comment which almost verbatim endorses what Joe Hockey had said about the Swan / Springsteen issue and which implicitly derides JG and /or her team should IMHO be prefaced by something like “On this occasion I support what JH has said about………..” etc and go on to give some minimal (at least) argument in support of that view.

There are couple of things overlooked in this proposition. It overlooks the possibility that the commenter may have come the same or similar point of view and expresses it in similar wording independant of what any politician or other commenter has said or written.

If commenters were obliged to acknowledge 'talking points' would we only restrict it to those points that allegedly come from the opposition parties or would we be also be obliged to acknowledge that we are recycling the governments talking points? It could all get very messy.

In similar territory we have had here, over time, many discussions around linking to articles and quoting others that are completely at odds with the views and opinions of the majority here and have generally accepted that linking or quoting does not always imply that the commenter endorses or agrees with that point of view. Unfortunately there are some who make that assumption that the person is a Liberal stooge or similar and are more than willing to 'tar and feather' the person that has linked to or quoted the apparently offensive item.

It is unfortunate that when a differing point of view is proffered that some jump to a delusion that the person stating another view is totally opposed to the government and the general beliefs of most here. It is also unfortunate that some distort what the original commenter has written and more worrying is that some people will fire the first shots that incite a flame war and then not acknowledge playing even a minor part in the silliness.

It is my hope, along with others, that the past practice of encouraging and accepting a diverse range of views continues and they we not be bound up in any ideological straightjacket of any stripe.

DMW

August 17. 2012 04:13 PM

42 long

I will accept what I choose to, but I should ALLOW all views to be expressed whether I agree with them or not. IF I don't agree with them I will say so,If it is importsant enough, but in any case my unfettered right of reply must be available, in exactly the way the other contributor expects his/her viewpoint to be treated. We must have the right to challenge or we are wasting our time, here.. If someone thinks I have said something that is "SUSS" they have the right to provide another (contrary?) opinion. They do not have the right to insult the poster personally, though suggesting someone may be a troll seems reasonable if they "walk like a duck and quack like a duck etc. They may even modify the way they express themselves and not look like a troll. Trolls ARE out there and are used for a purpose which would be the opposite of what we are trying to achieve here, surely?

42 long

August 17. 2012 04:15 PM

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Jason
In my view there is no point arguing with ToM.  When he dredges up old polls to make his point, whatever it is, you know he’s scratching around to find something to irritate us.  

Rob Oakeshott is a fine person who is keen to make this minority Government work well, and puts his heart into his work.  Whether there is some out-of-date evidence that his popularity in his electorate has dropped is neither here not there.  In fact, no current polls are worth the effort put into conducting them and reporting on them.

Let’s wait until near election time when we might find the electorate is very grateful to Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor for saving us from the awfulness of Tony Abbott.

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August 17. 2012 04:18 PM

Truth Seeker

Jason, ppl that ToM talk to probably don't know that it's already Aug 2012, but I am sure ToM and his "mates" (?) will catch up in time to vote LNP at the next election.

Truth Seeker

August 17. 2012 04:18 PM

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KHTAGH
That Tony Wright article was very powerful.  It featured the full video and much of the wording.  It’s out there now and no amount of lying denial by Abbott can erase it.

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August 17. 2012 04:22 PM

Gravel

Knee High

I've forgotten now, but I'm sure I read ages ago, Abbott has stated, in his book I think, that he believes in a benign dictatorship.  It is no surprise that the powerful people in this country agree with this and will find him the perfect vehicle to enforce this.  As they are the owners of the MSM they will only tell us what they want us to know.  Although we have  a wonderful government at the moment and unless we can try to help get this government re-elected next year, we will be living under a 'benign' dictatorship.  We will find ourselves being silenced.  I have a huge fear for my family and their childrens future.

Gravel

August 17. 2012 04:25 PM

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DMW
I have read your comment at 3.56 pm.  I agree with your conclusion: “It is my hope, along with others, that the past practice of encouraging and accepting a diverse range of views continues and they we not be bound up in any ideological straightjacket of any stripe.”

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August 17. 2012 04:39 PM

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Folks
I have just posted: The Political Sword: A Hub for the Fifth Estate.  I hope you like the 'new look' for TPS and the piece.

www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...Fifth-Estate.aspx

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August 17. 2012 04:43 PM

Tom of Melbourne


you know he’s scratching around to find something to irritate us.

I'll stop irritating you when you stop pretending you "put politicians and commentators to the sword"

Tom of Melbourne

August 17. 2012 04:59 PM

Jason

Promo for series 2 of Go back to where you came from"

www.sbs.com.au/.../promo-series-two

Jason

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