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Abbott and Hockey are endangering Australian business

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Thursday, 15 November 2012 16:31 by Ad astra
Writing on Poll Bludger, Bushfire Bill has made the telling point that every time someone talks down our economy, another small business, and larger ones too, are placed in jeopardy. And who is it that most often talks our economy down? You know. Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey. And when they need a little help, Andrew Robb and Mathias Cormann are always at the ready.

Yet we know that when they come out and disparage the economy, it is entirely a political strategy. Not for a moment do they believe that the economy is performing as poorly as they portray. When they go overseas they talk it up; they claim ‘bragging rights’ for Australia. Yet here they talk it down.

First, let’s get an idea of how consumers and businessmen view the economy, then look at the extent of the ‘talking down the economy’ problem, and finally we’ll take a look as BB’s novel counter move.

Business and consumer confidence are a reflection of how the state of the economy is viewed by those who manufacture or sell goods on the one hand and those that buy them on the other. There are several measures used in Australia. Although Greg Jericho shows in his comprehensive article in May about consumer confidence in The Drum that its correlation with other measures of economic activity is imprecise, he does agree that “consumer confidence is worth measuring, if only because it does give us insight into how consumers feel, and how the economy is being reported, and how well the Government is selling its view of the economy."

Roy Morgan runs a weekly consumer confidence rating. This is the last report – 3-4 November. It shows the rating “has risen strongly to 115.4 (up 2.7pts) driven by increasing confidence about the next 12 months with 41% (up 3%) of Australians expecting their family to be ‘better off financially’ this time next year and 29% (up 2%) expecting ‘good times’ for the Australian economy over the next 12 months.”

Another is the Westpac Melbourne Institute Index of Consumer Sentiment, which is an average of five component indexes which reflect consumers' evaluations of their household financial situation over the past year and the coming year, anticipated economic conditions over the coming year and the next five years, and buying conditions for major household items. Compiled from a survey of 1,200 Australians, index scores below 100 indicate that pessimists outweigh optimists. Historically, from 1974 until 2012, Australia Consumer Confidence averaged 101.85 reaching an all time high of 127.67 in January of 2005 and a record low of 64.61 in November of 1990. This week it is at a 19-month high, the best since April 2011, at 104.

For business confidence there is the Australia Business Confidence measure. The National Australia Bank's monthly survey of business confidence measures current performance of the non-farm business sector and is based on a survey of around 350 small to large sized companies. Historically, from 1997 until 2012, Australia Business Confidence averaged 6.13 reaching an all time high of 21.10 in May of 2002 and a record low of -31.60 in January of 2009. A survey taken in mid October shows it was -1 in September, down from 0 in August. A look at the graph shows it has hovered three to four points above or below zero for about a year. This week a survey by the Australian Institute of Company Directors shows that confidence among the 500 company directors surveyed is at its lowest level in two years, which the spokesman attributes to the slowing local and global economies, low consumer confidence, a high Australian dollar, regulation, and low productivity.

It is against this background of measures that we need to ask what is affecting the attitudes of consumers and businessmen. As with all measures of economic activity, the factors are complex, multiple, and interacting, but some stand out as likely to be highly relevant.

The situation in Europe appears to weigh heavily on both consumers and business. The gloom that we hear almost every day about Greece, and if it’s not Greece, it’s Spain or even Italy, is depressing. People are worried about a Greek default and a possible domino effect across Europe and the globe. The US economy is also a worry and all the talk of the US economy going over a ‘fiscal cliff’ has frightened people. It is noteworthy that since President Obama’s re-election just a few days ago, concern about the fiscal cliff at first diminished, but has escalated again after recent tough talk from both the Republicans and the President.

Another factor that must still occupy people’s minds is the GFC. Many were over-committed when it hit – maxed out on their credit card and struggling with mortgage repayments on their McMansions, homes they really could not afford. The GFC brought them up with a jolt, scared them about their spending, and pushed them towards austerity and saving instead of spending. This persists, although it may now be easing. We saw this when the first cash payments were made in response to the GFC, where much of the payments was banked. This was an appropriate response as many were living beyond their means, putting purchases on the never-never, and headed for financial distress. Consumers felt less confident, they spent more prudently, and business suffered as consumers bought less. Having created a ‘buy now, pay years later’ mentality among his Harvey Norman customers for years, Gerry Harvey screamed blue murder because his customers were no longer buying as before.

No doubt there are other local as well as global factors that influence people’s attitudes and confidence, and that of businessmen, but it is hard to discount the negative talk of the Leader of the Opposition and the Shadow Treasurer, as well as the Shadow Finance Minister, Andrew Robb, and the Assistant Opposition Treasury Spokesman, Mathias Cormann, as a contributory factor to the less than healthy confidence ratings of consumers and businessmen.

We don’t have to go back far to see examples of the Opposition talking down the economy, despite it being the most robust in the developed world and the envy of G20 finance ministers. Only last month in Tony Abbott Talking Down the Economy is Living up to His Name, Says Wayne Swan, Erik Pineda reported that Tony Abbott had supported the observation by David Murray, once head of the Commonwealth Bank and Australia’s Future Fund, that he was worried by Australia's low productivity and too high foreign debt, which…were clear recipes that brought down the economies of many in Europe, specifically that of Greece. Abbott added: "The lesson of Europe is that countries can go very quickly from a strong position to a parlous position if things aren't well managed… Australia could easily go down the drain, in the same way key economies in Europe did.”

Imagine the effect of such an alarming comment on people already worried about the situation in Europe.

Wayne Swan retorted that Abbott had “sunk to new depths of negativity and economic recklessness in talking our economy down," and that for him “to compare the local setting to that of Europe was both out of context and irresponsible”, as indeed it was. Julia Gillard said it was absurd "to compare our circumstances to Greece", and that it was "grossly irresponsible and wrong". She added: "…markets listen to what political leaders say, this can have repercussions in the real world that matter for the Australian economy."

In an October 3 piece in The Australian: Abbott talking down economy on mining boom, says Gillard, Lanai Vasek reports that Tony Abbott said: “a sooner-than-expected end to the mining boom was the result of Labor's poor economic policy and that all booms had to finish but that Labor had stifled the current resources boom with its Minerals Resource Rent Tax.”

Julia Gillard responded: "That is clearly a nonsense remark and it is wrong and inappropriate for anybody to be talking the Australian economy down. We've got a resources boom where we are yet to see the investment peak and the production peak.”

Reflect on the effect of that Abbott remark on confidence.

Joe Hockey talks down the economy so often it would take several pieces to document them all. He has consistently berated the Government’s economic policies, and echoing Tony Abbott, has labelled the Gillard Government as the worst government in Australian political history, unable to manage money, addicted to spending, debt and deficit, and one that will never bring down a surplus budget. No matter how good the economic news, he will talk it down and turn it into a negative.

Last month, David Bradbury, Assistant Treasurer had this to say:

“Shadow Treasurer and good news hater Joe Hockey was belting out tunes from his favourite broken record again today with his relentless talking down of Australia's economy.

“The hard facts that Mr Hockey wants to deny are:

“Yesterday's IMF's October 2012 World Economic Outlook showed Australia is now the world's 12th largest economy and has leapfrogged three places ahead under the Labor Government, after slipping back three places under the previous government.

“The Australian economy has been growing for 21 consecutive years, not shrinking as Tony Abbott has said.

“Tax to GDP is lower under this Labor Government than it was when the Liberal Government left office.

“Interest rates are lower than at any time under the former Liberal Government.

“Unemployment remains low at just over 5 per cent and at a time when the world has shed millions of jobs, Australia has created around 800,000 jobs.

“The day after the IMF upgraded the ranking of the Australian economy, Mr Hockey insisted on peddling his doom and gloom in a disgraceful effort to undermine confidence and make life harder for Australian families and businesses…Mr Hockey just wants to distract attention from his $70 billion budget crater and his secret plans to slash tens of thousands of jobs and cut frontline services. Mr Hockey should stop talking the economy down and come clean with how he is going to fund his gaping budget hole.”


When Wayne Swan was named Treasurer of the Year by Euromoney magazine, Hockey talked Swan's accolade down as reported in Swan soars before hit with the hockey stick. In doing so, Hockey managed to insult the economies of several developing countries, whose chief finance ministers have previously received the Euromoney award. Said Hockey: ''Over the last few years we've had two Slovakian ministers, a Serbian, a Nigerian, a Bulgarian . . . 2001 a Pakistani finance minister, that's quite an extraordinary one, that one…That's not any basis upon which I can give my endorsement to the Treasurer.”

Hockey has not a trace of charity; knocking is his only device.

This talking down of the economy is not new. Earlier this year in Julia Gillard slams Andrew Robb over talking down economy Ben Packham wrote: “Julia Gillard has accused opposition finance spokesman Andrew Robb of "deeply irresponsible conduct" after he declared Australia's economy was at risk of a European-style meltdown.”

“Mr Robb told The Australian the nation's debt growth had been outstripped only by global financial crisis casualties Iceland and Ireland, leaving the nation vulnerable to a fall in the nation's terms of trade.

“The Prime Minister said in reality, Australia had received a triple-A rating from all three ratings agencies, a feat not achieved before including under the former Howard government.

“She said Mr Robb's comments were themselves a risk to the Australian economy: "We are at a time in the world economy where there is volatility out of the eurozone." That means that markets are skittish. That means it's an incredibly dangerous time for people to be spruiking nonsense about the Australian economy. And that's what Mr Robb has been doing - talking our economy down."


When Robb does appear, we know that dismal, cheerless economic gloom will be all he is able to offer.

Mathias Cormann is always ready to join the fray. In the Senate he asked: “Will the government now concede that its carbon tax, its mining tax, its massive increases in red and green tape, increased union militancy on its watch and all of its other anti-mining policies and anti-mining rhetoric have hurt Australia's economic fortunes?” to which Senator Chris Evans responded: “Relentlessly talking down the economy in this country by the Liberal and National parties is absolutely bad for confidence, bad for jobs. What we know is that there is record investment, a record pipeline of coming investment, and the mining industry remains strong.”

Cormann went even further in The Australian last month in Labor's rush to pull veil over budget black hole a conjuring trick, asserting:

“Labor knows that's a serious problem for its fiscal credibility. It knows that the delivery of yet another deficit, the fifth Swan deficit in a row, will be seen by most for what it is - the conclusive proof (if that were required) that Labor cannot manage money.”

If carping was a criterion of success in the Opposition finance team, Cormann would be a star.

Talking down the economy has been a consistent Coalition theme for the last two years. It would take many pages to document all the instances. It never seems to occur to the Coalition finance team that all its negative talk is damaging to our economy. Of course, if they actually do know that, it makes their destructive actions all the more reprehensible. They are mimicking the strategy of the US Tea Party that was prepared to bring down the US economy in order to make President Obama look incompetent, and have him replaced by their man, Mitt Romney. They failed.

Why do businessmen not tell Abbott and Co. to shut their damaging mouths? Can’t they see they are wrecking their businesses? While consumer confidence is on the up, the businessmen are still miserable, their confidence dropping. Do they believe the doom and gloom perpetrated by the Coalition so-called finance team? Looks like it!

Now for Bushfire Bill’s novel answer to the Coalition’s destructivity, one he offered on Poll Bludger on October 24. In response to another blogger’s comment that read: “The Liberal Party could do itself and Australia a major, cleansing, favour: sack Mr Abbott, Ms Credlin and Mr Loughnane. This trio has spent the best part of four years wrecking the joint”, BB had this to say:

“The line I’ve used with my colleagues in the high-discretionary-spending area of high-end Home Entertainment has been simple:

“Every time Abbott or Hockey trash the economy, you lose another sale.”

“It works a treat.

“I then follow up with:

“If buyers have no confidence, then they won’t go out and make purchases. First cab off the rank will be your $xx,000 widget [insert name of expensive Home Entertainment toy here.]

“It really does get them thinking.

“My killer concluding line is:

“It’s not a game anymore. It’s not FUN anymore. It’s real. The Coalition is talking down YOUR business for no reason. They didn’t get their early election. All they have is a lead in the polls – and that’s fading away.”

“Is the damage they’ve done – and are still doing – to your business worth it?”


“It’s amazing how resonant these few simple lines can be. Even the drongo who wanted Gillard to fall over on gravel and break her face listened, eventually.”


Later BB advises: “The government should start this ball rolling, across all fronts. Put misogyny to one side. It’s important, but not as important as convicting the Coalition of directly affecting confidence and thus the economy.

“The aim of the campaign would be to have the punters so exasperated with the doom-and-gloom talk from the Coalition that they yell at their TV sets, “Just SHUT-UP Abbott!”

“In answer to the objection that “the government would say that”, you just reply:

"That's the government's JOB. Confidence is a real input to the economy. The government has a DUTY to talk confidence up, especially when it's warranted. Without confidence no one gets out of bed in the morning. And anyway, it's the best economy in the world. We SHOULD be bragging about it."

“Hammer it home. Make it stick.

“My own industry is easy, because it’s so sensitive to dorks like Can-Do Campbell saying things like “Queensland is the new Greece.” Other industries are harder nuts to crack, but do-able.

“The good thing about a confidence and anti-trash-talk campaign is that it’s not only clever, but has the virtue of being the correct, responsible and truthful thing to do.”


That is very sound advice. It’s time the Government mounted a spirited proactive campaign of ‘knocking the knockers’, not just reacting to their destructive negativity that puts down OUR economy, the one upon which we all rely.

What do you think?

Comments (214) -

November 15. 2012 04:57 PM

Bacchus

Interesting Article AA. I agree, the government should be prosecuting the case against the opposition costing business sales for all they're worth.

Michael Pascoe has another perspective on the recent upturn in consumer confidence. Apparently, the rise can be wholly attributed to coalition voters - it seems they really have stopped listening to the doom & gloom from Mr Abbott since the sky didn't fall after July 1.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0121115-29e3f.html

Bacchus

November 15. 2012 05:01 PM

DoodlePoodle

Spot on AA!!  Perhaps businesses need to be targeted with this information.  Businesses also need to add their voice of disapproval.  Perhaps the nopposition will then sit up and take notice.  

DoodlePoodle

November 15. 2012 05:27 PM

Ad astra reply

Bacchus
Thank you for your comment and the link to the Michael Pascoe article, which is in tune with this piece.  As BB has insisted for weeks now, Government ministers should be out there not just pointing to the fact that the sky is still in place, that Whyalla has not disappeared, or even condemning the negative Abbott/Hockey talk, but talking directly to businessmen pointing out that Abbott, Hockey, Robb and Cormann are wrecking their businesses with their negative talk.  If they did, we might find business confidence lifting to match that of consumers.

DoodlePoodle
Thank you for you comment.  You are right – businessmen should be insisting that Abbott and Co. turn off their negative rhetoric, which is harming their businesses.  They have swallowed this rhetoric for too long.  The public is waking up – it’s time businessmen did likewise.

Ad astra reply

November 15. 2012 05:32 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Oddly, debt is the problem with the frailty of the international economy. But Swan has seen it as the solution.

…and please before anyone repeats Gillard’s totally inaccurate analogy about the debt of a household, choose a better one than our economically illiterate Prime Minister.

Tom of Melbourne

November 15. 2012 05:45 PM

Truth Seeker

Ad, I have been saying for a long time that in many countries around the world their dangerous and deceptive antics regarding talking down our economy is tantamount to treason and would be seen as such.

All Abbotts doorstops over the last two years or so, prove that there are many small through to large businesses that are prepared to be complicit in his deceptive behaviour for the sake of pushing the LNP barrow, to the detriment of their own best interest. Presumably looking to the greater gains to be made long term with a return to workchoices and other employer biased policy directions.

I find it passing strange that there are penalties imposed for misleading parliament, and yet can, day in day out mislead the voting public with impunity.

The good thing is that more and more when people hear Abbott and co speak, what they hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH, which in reality has more substance that what they are actually saying.

Keep up the great work Ad, TPS and the fighting fifth will prevail as you wield the sword of political enlightenment, cutting to the heart of LNP dishonesty and stupidity for the greater good of our great nation.

Cheers  Smile  Smile

Truth Seeker

November 15. 2012 06:22 PM

Truth Seeker

Oddly, the troll is still an idiot!

Sad

Truth Seeker

November 15. 2012 06:27 PM

Bushfire Bill

Truth Seeker wrote:

"Ad, I have been saying for a long time that in many countries around the world their dangerous and deceptive antics regarding talking down our economy is tantamount to treason and would be seen as such."

Can anyone imagine that Romney, as negative as he was, would trash the American economy as much as Abbott and Hockey have trashed Australia's?

I am meeting people with good businesses who believe they are stuffed. They echo Abbott's words almost verbatim. They cling to them like a drowning man to a lifebouy.

There's a natural propensity in Australians to whinge. Abbott recognizes that and his continual negativity gives them permission.

Both sides of the above equation should wake up to themselves, as should Labor.

Craig Emerson is a force of nature, but when I see him making cerebral points about "hypocrisy" I want to scream. He's right, but there's so much more to it than that.

He's the Minister For Trade. He should be easily able to find victims of Abbott's end-of-the-world gloom and doom.

I have heard so many times in my industry that we're going to hell in a handbasket. It doesn't take much to give them hope.

And make them cranky at Abbott.

I just ask, "Well,who's talking the economy down? It's not the government."

Bushfire Bill

November 15. 2012 07:10 PM

2353

Bacchus - I immediately thought of that Michael Pascoe article as well.

Truth Seeker - very clever.

AA - another good well researched piece.  In some ways a recession in Australia would show everyone how good it has been for so long - dramatic but true.  While Pascoe suggests that LNP voters are gradually realising the world didn't end on July 1 and are gradually opening their wallets - Newman and O'Farrell are cutting so many jobs it is bound to have a flow on effect.  An example I heard today was that a coffee shop in a office complex with a number of government tenants somewhere in SE Queensland is losing $200 a day solely due to Newman's cuts meaning less workers in the building.  I also found out recently that officially, those who receive packages do not become "unemployed" until the expiration of the the number of weeks payout they got, so the figures won't catch up to reality for a while.

Abbott has been successful in creating a crisis of confidence.  One would hope that the Government gathers the evidence and hangs him out to dry on it in the upcoming election.  Given recent history I'm skeptical they can.  However it is interesting that in the people I deal with the LNP brand has dipped in popularity significantly in the past 6 months or so - and not only with Newman.  I wonder what a "trasher Abbott" campaign by the Unions and the ALP would look like just prior to the election, in a similar fashion tot he Workchoices ads in 2007?

2353

November 15. 2012 07:19 PM

2353

And the latest on the "scandal" (commercial FM Radio description) of the Lobbying problems with the LNP.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0121115-29e6d.html

As well as John Bjelke-Petersen (yes, his son) defending Clive Palmer who's LNP membership was suspended earlier this  week for criticising the party.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0121115-29ent.html

Welcome to Newmania - sunshine one day, recession the next.

2353

November 15. 2012 07:21 PM

Bacchus

I also found out recently that officially, those who receive packages do not become "unemployed" until the expiration of the the number of weeks payout they got, so the figures won't catch up to reality for a while.

I think you'll find that's incorrect 2353 Smile They would be ineligible for Centrelink payments like Newstart, or whatever the dole is called these days, but the unemployment rate is measured by the ABS taking a survey across a sample of households. The criteria for being classified as unemployed is:
the person must be 15 or older, not be employed, must be looking for work, and must be available to start work in the week in which the survey is held. More detail at the ABS:
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/featurearticlesbytitle/C35049FCB841741BCA256A1F0002C384?OpenDocument

Bacchus

November 15. 2012 07:25 PM

Bacchus

Sorry about the link - you will need to copy & paste the entire URL into your browser.

Of course, many who have been made redundant may not be looking for work immediately after being retrenched, thus affecting the figures...

Bacchus

November 15. 2012 07:26 PM

Ad astra reply

Truth Seeker
It is not an exaggeration to name Abbott’s and Hockey’s behaviour as treasonous, as it imperils our economy and all that depends on it.  

I agree with BB’s advice: “make them cranky at Abbott.”  It should not be all that difficult.

Ad astra reply

November 15. 2012 07:29 PM

Ad astra reply

2353
There are troubles in Queensland with the Newman Government, and they will get worse.

Ad astra reply

November 15. 2012 07:39 PM

tiffany232

I love The Political Sword and don’t comment often, but couldn’t resist this one. For the last 17 years I’ve operated a recruitment business in Brisbane, very successful with turnover increasing every year. I employ between 60-70 people per year. We survived the GFC and even managed a modest growth for that financial year.  But, since the election of the Newman government the market has dried up and for the first time in 17 years we’ll record a drop in our turnover by a little more than half.  Federally there’s a great deal of negativity from Abbott, Hockey etc.  Here in Queensland it’s doubled down by the amount of state government money that has been removed from the market.  Most of our clients are putting off rather than putting on and even the most ardent LNP clients are affected.  I’m a labor supporter and have always been out of step with my clients.  Not anymore I’m happy to say.  We’ll be okay because we’re well known and have always targeted a diversity of clients, but I see a time when there’ll  be lots of businesses that  simply close their doors.  There’s already been some  who’ve been around at least as long as I have. The state government is the biggest show in town and when they stop spending it has a huge impact on an enormous range of suppliers.

tiffany232

November 15. 2012 07:41 PM

jaycee

I find it very difficult to comprehend that while we have a grand tradition in the nation of revering and celebrating those who have sacrificed all for the good of the nation...even against their best knowledge and when fear and self preservation would deem otherwise, we have the courage of their example to respect those who would lift the good of the nation above their own well being....then we have one major political party who would lie, deceive, outright mislead the populace and bring down the nation with its' negativity....and that very political party would call itself loyal and honest to the world!.....Traitors! to a person.

jaycee

November 15. 2012 08:11 PM

Bushfire Bill

AA wrote:

I agree with BB’s advice: “make them cranky at Abbott.”  It should not be all that difficult.

They're already cranky with Abbot.

My idea is that they need a focus for it.

I want punters throwing ashtrays at the TV every time Abbott gets on it and trash-talks the economy.

Hockey... he's worse than Abbott. Interestrates go up, down or stay the same: it's always a disaster.

Chris Murphy tweeted yesterday that Hockey was the preferred choice for Abbott's replacement.

If this happens then there IS a God.

Bushfire Bill

November 15. 2012 08:14 PM

42 long

Treason is not too harsh a word to describe the actions of Hockey and Co. The predictable recessions created by the east coast LNP types caps it off. Reduce economic activity by getting rid of every job with "Public" in it's description. as if they don;t actually "DO" anything. Ct TAFE and fire fighters back. How bloody clever is that.
  It's clever if you reduce tax income for the FEDS and increase their support liability at the same time. This must be to ruin Swanns budget balance. They will do anything to ruin that...
Some cost saving exercises will at the most only save money in the short term. (if they do that even with pay outs and transfer of support requirements).
   More Gaols!!!!. That's how you can Pick the LNP style governments. When people are out of work and can't get an education and see no hope of it getting better, you need more GAOLS, costing about 100,000 dollars a year per inmate to graduate from Bluestone college, and most likely to need a refresher from time to time, because of their experiences in the place. It would be much cheaper and decent to provide education and a supporting  caring social structure. The LeiNP are only for advancement of the privileged and we have been able to see how some of them and their progeny behave recently. Even the LieNP behave more outrageously in parliament than the poor Labor types who haven't had the extra work done to them to make them "nice" like Tony's MOB.

42 long

November 15. 2012 08:19 PM

uriah

AA your strongest article yet ,as it goes to the heart of why incumbent govts are re-elected.PM Gillard and her team have spent this term of govt putting in place policies(over 400 pieces of legislation passed,and this in a hung parliament)that will benefit the Australian people and businesses alike.Abbott Hockey Turnbull and Robb  now look like fools with their persistent talking down(for the sake of political expediency)of the governments policies such as the carbon price where there is over 300 billion of investment in the pipeline not to mention the advantages to business of carbon credit trading(it is significant that Obama intends to adopt the same system that the Gillard govt already has in place)the NBN which gives business,small and large alike a competitve advantage,the mining tax(for want of a better description)investment in education and infrastructure,the potential that the white paper on asia offers and many more.While all this exciting stuff is happening the conservative state govts are slashing and burning-TOTALLY NEGATIVE AND IDEALOGICALLY DRIVEN and too scared to make a positive decision.Imagine Barry Ofarrell with an Abbott led federal govt,he would have no impediment to turn NSW into Newmania and much worse.PM Gillard and the Labor Party and the Australian electorate and its business leaders are the only things that stand in the way of this potential disaster.Accordingly I would think that PM Gillard will win the 2013 election and the subsequent 2016 election.

uriah

November 15. 2012 08:36 PM

Robynne

What a great article AA, I congratulate you on yet again reminding us of the utter failure of the MSM in their dealings with the rabble that purport to be next in line to run the country.

At every opportunity they are so happy to undermine any confidence in the economy for their rank political advantage and it never ceases to amaze me how many small business operators are sucked into their spin. The promises of the return of serf choices must surely be the lure that allows their credibility to be so often abused by these truly self interested horrors who at the end of the day would celebrate the collapse of the economy if it assisted their cause.

A nastier pack of self interested creeps than has ever invaded the political landscape of this country, a mob that really would destroy the joint for their own rank politcal purpose.

Robynne

November 15. 2012 09:12 PM

bilko

AA
Talking down the economy is NOT in the National interest and all those who do so, are in fact kicking OZ in the teeth. In some places in the world such an action is the same as treason and we all know the penalty for that. I say bring in the AFP and lock them all up.
end of rant and by the way fine article

bilko

November 15. 2012 09:14 PM

jaycee

Robynne..It is sad but true that even our own national broadcaster, in its' obsessive pursuit of "balance" would permit, even preference in the case of the IPA. sheer stupidity and banality against reasoned and objective commentry..thus aligning itself by association to those of facile opinions.
Frequent and regular posts by known identities that further the lies and misleading negativity by the opposition align the national broadcaster with these propagators of negativity. The ABC. has a lot to answer for.

jaycee

November 15. 2012 09:27 PM

Ad astra reply

tiffany232
I hope everyone reads the story you tell.  In Queensland you have Newmania with Abbott/Hockey negativity compounding your problem.  What makes these conservatives so destructive, so willing to slash and burn everything in their path to claw their way to power?  They resemble the pillaging, raping hoards of another age who believe they can succeed only by first destroying.  It’s pathological.

Jaycee
I share your feelings, your disgust, your dismay.

BB
Yes, we must focus our anger on Abbott and Hockey until all can see their perverted behaviour.   We must expose their damage and destroy approach.  We must make businessmen see what devastation they are bringing to business.  The ordinary people are turning away; once the business community does the same, they are a spent force.

42 long
I believe treason is not too harsh a word.

uriah
Thank you for your complimentary comment.  It was BB’s inspired comment on Poll Bludger that stimulated the writing of this piece.  I can see his feelings are shared by many here.

Robynne
Thank you too for your kind comment.  Who could disagree with your conclusion” ”A nastier pack of self interested creeps than has ever invaded the political landscape of this country, a mob that really would destroy the joint for their own rank political purpose.”

bilko
You are right – they are kicking us all in the teeth, just as the Republicans/Tea Party tried in the US.  They failed, as will the conservatives here.

Ad astra reply

November 15. 2012 09:28 PM

Ad astra reply

Folks
I'm calling it a day.

Ad astra reply

November 15. 2012 09:52 PM

tiffany232

To put this into perspective.  I was a single mum who chose never to take benefits because I  believed I had to be a role model for my children because their father never could. I’ve worked incredibly hard and both my children are productive and contributing to society. If anyone thinks it’s easy to start their own business, I work 100 hours a week and have done for 17  years. For this  I get to live in a nice house and drive a nice car. My spare time is spent contributing to those more unfortunate than me.M

tiffany232

November 15. 2012 10:48 PM

42 long

Good on you tiffany232. I have never found myself in more furious agreement with so many as I see on this forum lately. I am really fortunate to have found TPS. I hope you feel the same sense of finding kindred spirits as I have. Australia is a unique place . We have an atheist  not married  woman PM, that the establishment has thrown all the shit they are capable of and she still will not lie down and die. Who would have the temerity to expect that to happen. A mysoginistic control freak, with a dopey plan to fool us into thinking HE has anything to offer.

42 long

November 15. 2012 10:51 PM

Jason

tiffany232,
          You sound like ToM of Melbourne so what?

Jason

November 16. 2012 01:18 AM

TalkTurkey

Check this out! from Twitter:

AoS ‏@AnonOpsSweden

about #Israel and #StopTheRockets propaganda: They PHOTOSHOP a Philipin woman into a more #Ashkenazi one: pic.twitter.com/STEngmY1


Retweeted by Enemy of the State
AoS ‏@AnonOpsSweden about #Israel and #StopTheRockets propaganda: They

View photo Reply

Don't know if the link works, sorry.

TalkTurkey

November 16. 2012 01:22 AM

TalkTurkey

This works.

http://t.co/STEngmY1

WHAT A LIE!

TalkTurkey

November 16. 2012 07:32 AM

Lyn

TODAY’S LINKS

The Man Behind the Curtain, Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate
In Australia, there was the now widely recognised misjudgement of the press gallery over the significance of the Prime Minister's speech to parliament about the misogyny of the Opposition Leader. The condescending accusation by legacy media that social media had misunderstood the "context" of the speech was vaguely amusing at the time. But it now looks plainly ridiculous. They missed the story and they still don't accept it.
http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com.au/

The tragedy of Ashby and Slipper: Act One, Vince O’Grady, Independent Australia
I am not going to pre-empt my findings, but any good investigator has to have an hypothesis in mind.My hypothesis was:  Is this scandal part of a Liberal Party plan akin to the Craig Thomson affair, but better concocted and baked than the abortive ‘Michael Kirby’ and ‘Utegate’ affairs? I always like to know who is who in any story, so the first thing I did was to have a look at the individuals involved, commencing with Peter Slipper.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

The big media fantasy complex is open for business, Tim Dunlop, The Drum
You can almost give Joe Hockey and co a pass for their continued efforts to paint our growing, low-unemployment, low-inflation, low-debt economy as a disaster zone because BS-ing about such things is kind of their job.It's a much harder to forgive various commentators and journalists who give that sort of nonsense cover, reporting it as if it was a legitimate alternative view.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4371904.html

LatikaMBourke’s Epic Social Media #Fail, Victoria Rollison
I noted her propensity for ‘blocking’ Twitter followers. For the uninitiated, check out this link for an explanation of how Twitter works.Bourke was recruited by the ABC from radio station 2UE in 2010, as their first Social Media Reporter. ABC’s director of news, Kate Torney, is quoted in this Mumbrella article announcing Bourke’s appointment:
victoriarollison.com/.../

The Crooks Who Could Bring Down Labor, Ben Eltham, New Matilda
The current hearings are expected to run for months, probing all sorts of potential misconduct in the executive of the New South Wales government under Labor. If it keeps going in this fashion, the current scandal may in time rival the Fitzgerald Inquiry into corruption in Queensland in the 1980s, in terms of its significance and political impact.
newmatilda.com/2012/11/15/obeid-bring-down-labor

124,000 Missing Voters in New South Wales, Antony Green ABC
As at the end of October 2012 there were 4,784,501 voters on the NSW state electoral roll, but only 4,660,258 on the Commonwealth electoral roll for NSW. That is a difference of 124,243 voters, more than the number of voters enrolled in the average Commonwealth electoral division.
blogs.abc.net.au/.../...rs-in-new-south-wales.html

Australia – the richer you are, the more government hand outs you get, Turn Left 2013
Ok, Joe, I know that economics is not your strong suit – but it is not unfunded – pensions are the result of workers paying taxes for fifty years. Perhaps upper-class welfare was stripped back there would not be an issue of aged pensioners and war veterans get something that you don’t think they’ve earned
turnleft2013.wordpress.com/.../

I Swear, Peter Wicks, Wixxy Leaks
This is a day that there should not be any debate about, it should have bi-partisan support. Whether you are married or single, gay or straight, one thing we all have in common, no matter what your background, as we all have a mother.I’m not going to try and tell you how White Ribbon Day came to be, or to tell you its significance, I will leave that to someone far more qualified than I.
http://wixxyleaks.com/2012/11/15/i-swear/

Speaking of men of culture, as you do ... Dorothy Parker, Loon Pond
No such luck for Gillard, for the hacks will keep supping at this trough right up to the next election, and every denial or disremembering or doubt is front page grist for the crusading mill, and fruit for fresh charges and further allegations, which might then be doubted. And so on and on and on.
loonpond.blogspot.com.au/.../...ure-as-you-do.html

A global pick-up on the rocks?Stepphen Koukoulas, Business Spectator
In almost all instances where global economic growth is accelerating or downright strong, share prices, bond yields and commodity prices move higher. When markets start moving in the opposite direction, particularly in unison, there are reasons to be concerned. This uniform negativity in market trends spells problems ahead.
www.businessspectator.com.au/.../US-Europe-economy-stock-market-bonds-commodities-

Advertiser boycott of 2GB 'irrational', Radio Today
Our best estimate of the profit impact to MRN is somewhere between $1 million and $1.5 million in the current half year period. We are confident that in the second half of the year there will be minimal if any residual impact
www.radiotoday.com.au/.../1584-macquaries-agm.html

Restoring The Faith, Stephen Crittenden, The Global Mail
Australia’s Cardinal George Pell gave the worst media performance of his career at his press conference in Sydney on Tuesday. It was lazy, half-hearted and a complete waste of everyone’s time. He looked more than ever like yesterday’s man.
www.theglobalmail.org/.../

Today’s Front Pages
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 16 November 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Lyn

November 16. 2012 08:16 AM

Ad astra reply

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra reply

November 16. 2012 09:47 AM

TalkTurkey

I have had Manflu worse than ever before for 3 days.
Women are so lucky!

TalkTurkey

November 16. 2012 09:53 AM

jaycee

Can't agree more, TT...I've had two cases this year of the worst flu in my entire life!...Talk about Manflu..no sympathy from the better half either..It's ok for her..she's got three grandchildren a garden and four horses to distract her when she's sick!...what have we got?...NOTHING!...but a terrible, terrible cough and a runny nose....

jaycee

November 16. 2012 10:24 AM

TalkTurkey

Jaycee

Yes the worst cough I've ever had, Sneezing 100X a day to lift off my chair, weepy eyes, snot and more and more snot, headaches, gutaches, chest pain, muscle aches, more headaches Urgh . . . Girls just don't know! Wink

TalkTurkey

November 16. 2012 10:43 AM

jaycee

TRUE!..too true!...I said to my partner..:"I'm sick!"...and you know what she said!!?..;"So tell me something I don't know already."...all in a deadpan voice while licking her thumb and turning the page of an article in a mag'...not the least bit of sympathy...I tell you, TT..we're on our own, mate....on - our - own.......

jaycee

November 16. 2012 10:57 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad and Everybody,

Has anyone seen Pysclaw I have been missing his informative posts.

Now Talk Turkey and jaycee, you poor little petals.  Have either of you used any nasal spray, throat gargle, headache pills, if not why not SmileSmile

I had a cold once upon a time, and the Doctor told me too many people fiddle around with chemist visits, he said come and see me before your cold worsens.

Twitterverse for you all :-

Bushfire Bill
Posted Friday, November 16, 2012 at 8:48 am
Hedley’s at it again. His column contains the usual “usuals”:

There is no evidence Ms Gillard had any knowledge of the redundancy payments. The Prime Minister has repeatedly and vehemently denied any wrongdoing, saying she knew nothing of the operations of the fund, which were used by Mr Wilson and Mr Blewitt to misappropriate union funds.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1473471

Bushfire Bill
Posted Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
know it’s easy to get disheartened by the crap The Australian keep dishing up (God knows, I have been) but in reality what have they got?

* Their stories are now so heavily laced with legal disclaimers and escape clauses that anything contained within them is worthless.

* One of their “chief witnesses” is cowering in Malaysia on the run from the law.

* Another “chief witness” has denounced his own evidence.

* Yet another has only a vague memory of being given a cheque to deposit into Gillard’s account, with no record of the account number, no receipt and at best a hazy recollection of events.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1473068

Trains of thought on power and politics, Laura Tingle
www.afr.com/.../trains_of_thought_on_power_and_politics_GhYf1ODSVd0vgoOgERZlNO

Tweeting Roo ™‏
Alan Jones' comment cost $1.5 million - Sky News Australia http://shrtn.in/2V1hvV #auspol

Judythe Riley‏
How will Abbott help small business? Don`t really know - a lot of empty words & no real policies. www.smh.com.au/.../...s-sector-20121115-29et4.html …#auspol

visivoz‏
Misunderstanding???  So a Victorian Liberal MP made up his qualifications m.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-e6frf7kx-1226517696924

Nepotism claims dog LNP Government
Pressure is rising inside the Liberal National Party (LNP) Government in Queensland over scandals and claims of nepotism.
In just eight months, the LNP has lost two ministers and there are calls for a third to go, along with a director-general.
www.abc.net.au/.../4375486

Family government appointments 'unwise'
The Newman government needs to urgently review the way ministerial and family appointments are made to Queensland government jobs, one of the state's leading political ethicists believes
www.brisbanetimes.com.au/.../...0121115-29eut.html

Cranky Frog‏
"when political opponents and media drag your family in to things'' No Dr Flegg, All Your Own Work www.couriermail.com.au/.../story-fn8m0u4y-1226517625737 … #Fail #TimeTo #ManUp

Labor's $5000 election headache as AWU saga dogs Prime Minister Julia Gillard, Steve Lewis
Labor MPs are considering
Government figures yesterday said
caucus figure said
Labor MPs were "bewildered
senior ALP officials denied it
www.dailytelegraph.com.au/.../story-e6freuy9-1226516936975

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

November 16. 2012 11:15 AM

jaycee

Nasal spray!!!?...throat gargle!!?..headache pills!!?...Heeeeyyy!...we're talking MAN-FLU here, not "kiddie kolds"!....this is Iron-tablets country!....not vitamin pick-me-ups.
Great links, Lyn..by the way!...Ta.

jaycee

November 16. 2012 11:35 AM

Lyn

Hi Jaycee

Your a character thankyou for the smiles & giggles.

Ha ha MAN-FLU you say, another name for attention devicit disorder from my experience. SmileSmile

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

November 16. 2012 11:42 AM

jaycee

Very interesting article by Laura Tingle. The political problem facing the national govt' seems to be that the corporations which have purchased the previously govt' owned utilities are not being up-front and honest with cost increases. Instead we hear and see these dodgy, excuse-laden price-hikes that may or may not be justified. If we, the public, are to make a judgement on the honesty of these cost-of-living expenses, we must be kept informed of the true infrastructure and running costs as against artificial loading-up and  over-pricing chicanery...we have social media information that keeps a good many of us informed when ministers or corporations get a bit dodgy with the numbers...so give us all a break and fess up when required and we will all be kept in the light!

jaycee

November 16. 2012 11:46 AM

Miglo

You people need to toughen up.

Real men don't get Man-Flu. They get what I've had. Frown

Miglo

November 16. 2012 12:15 PM

TalkTurkey

Lyn,
Go to the Doctor? I'm a MAN!

Real men don't complain to Doctors!

We complain to everyone else instead!

(sore throat . . . stinging sinuses . . . chafed nose . . . )

Besides Doctors can't fix Manflu. It's too serious.
We just have to hope we survive . . .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jason said he saw a post from Psyclaw on Poll Bludger t'other day . . . I've been missing him too . . .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not just your great threads Ad astra, the quality of comments here continues always to improve as well. This site is a treasure trove without boundaries.

As for this particular thread, I don't think there is much that needs adding . . . Fie on the naysayers and downputters . . .

Oh but I must agree with Robynne:
. . . it never ceases to amaze me how many small business operators are sucked into their spin.

How timid this class of person seems to be, how easily spooked, just look how terrified they have been of the price on carbon, so obviously going to be of miniscule or nil consequence on the great majority, all because of yadda yadda yadda CARBON TAX DISASTER by the Abborttians. . . in the triple-triple-A rated economy, how can they maintain this risible yet deadly fiction? . . .
   . . . Oh yes, the malevolent mischievous MSM!

TalkTurkey

November 16. 2012 12:19 PM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
I’ve now read your links and Twitterverse.  You have a genius for finding relevant material and then extracting the relevant part to accompany your links.  You found the part of Tim Dunlop’s great article that is relevant to this piece.  

Your BB clips are always good reading.  I enjoyed particularly his comments about the ongoing saga conducted by News Limited about the S&G matter.  Hedley Thomas can’t let go – his ego won’t let him, as he always has to be right.  Chris Mitchell can’t let go – his hatred of the PM won’t let him.  I see Steve Lewis has now bought in – his association with any story should raise suspicion after his involvement in the Grech affair and the Ashby/Slipper/Brough matter.  

If they think this is going to erode support for our PM, I believe they have backed the wrong horse.  Such a sustained attack might erode support when a politician is going down, but might have the opposite effect when the politician in going up, as our PM is.  Still, they don’t care – they will throw their stones hoping to hit their target, because they believe have little to lose.  But their steadily declining reputation will decline still more, and more importantly support for the man they are promoting might also decline.

Ad astra reply

November 16. 2012 12:25 PM

janice

Jaycee and TT,

Well both of you got a lot of sympathy from our lovely Tweety Bird. Smile  My long departed mother used to tell my father "It's only senile decay but you'll still outlive me".  He did outlive her too.

I offer you a comfort remedy to soothe and lessen your pain:  Dissolve an aspirin,1 tablespoon of honey in a slug of brandy, and the juice of a lemon.  Sip mixture slowly.  When finished, make another brew omitting the aspirin and increasing the brandy - sip as required to ease symptoms. Smile  

janice

November 16. 2012 12:29 PM

Bacchus

A minor bout of pneumonia worse than MANFLU Migs? Go wash your mouth out man Tong

Bacchus

November 16. 2012 12:51 PM

Ad astra reply

janice
You would have made a great doctor.

Ad astra reply

November 16. 2012 12:53 PM

jane

Ad astra, another great post laying bare the arrant hypocrisy, mendacity and stupidity of the Liars Party, in their mission to destroy consumer and business confidence in the economy so they can assume the position they think is theirs by right.

It doesn't seem to enter their empty heads that although they're aiming their constant drumbeat of negativity at the domestic market, our nearest neighbours and the world at large are aware of their campaign.

Are they really so stupid as to imagine that foreign embassies don't provide their governments with domestic information? Unfortunately I think the answer to that question is entirely in the negative, which fits their limited mentality, I suppose.

TT & jaycee, you can whinge about a slight head cold when you've been through pregnancy and childbirth, right ladies? Man flu! Harrumph!

Lyn, as always great links.

jane

November 16. 2012 01:00 PM

jaycee

You know, Bacchus is right on the money with that one, Miglo. I wasn't going to tell this publicly before it was given appropriate credibility on the Alan Jones show..but here it is for your elucidation.
Man Flu....the origins.
You know, when a young lady gets married or goes off into the world on her own, besides all that sage information and warnings about us men her mother gives to her...I have it on sound advice (a web-site hiding behind the banal title of "The conspiricy by women against men") that they are also given a phial of fluid that contains a concentrate of "Man Flu". This deadly virus (acording to the web-site) was "cooked-up" by a cabal of a triumatronate of ; Rachel Carson, Germaine Greer and Margaret Fulton!..It was only to be used whenever the man became indolent and lax in his duties...it was to be a warning of worse to come if he didn't lift his game...What you had, Miglo, was the second stage of "the treatment"!

jaycee

November 16. 2012 01:09 PM

Miglo

It wasn't the pneumonia that bothered me. It was the coughing and sneezing which, under normal circumstances, is bearable. But I have a cracked rib. I can assure you the pain when coughing was exquisite.

Apparently I was heard to complain a lot.

Miglo

November 16. 2012 01:26 PM

TalkTurkey

How about this for a lie!

TheFinnigans天地有道人无道‏@Thefinnigans

Tony Abbott is caught lying again (via @Pollytics & @GrogsGamut ) like this: http://twitpic.com/bdjb6w/full


Retweeted by 47% Authentic Geek

TalkTurkey

November 16. 2012 01:30 PM

jaycee

Miglo..I dips me lid!..Your "complaints" bear the sublime beauty of the male understatement that is in reality a perfected manufactured pleading for the brow to be comfortingly stroked.
I dub thee..; "Sir Miglo".  

jaycee

November 16. 2012 01:31 PM

Truth Seeker

Migs, i can empathise, as I have had a number of cracked ribs from coughing, and a broken rib from coughing that kept me on morphine for around three months from the beggining of this year.
No fun.
I have also got a bruise just above my right hip from my latest  infection that I am still recovering from. It's amazing the damage that you can do from coughing.

Look after that rib.

Cheers

Truth Seeker

November 16. 2012 01:32 PM

janice

Ad astra,
janice
You would have made a great doctor.


Funny man Smile however, I always yearned to be a vet but family finances and the fact that we lived in remote areas put paid to that ambition.  I had two wonderful vets during my dairyfarming years who taught me a number of veterinary procedures which helped me save quite a few cows and calves over the years.  The vets were more than an hour away so they would give me directions over the phone in an emergency.  

janice

November 16. 2012 03:03 PM

42 long

Miglo, it hurts also when you laugh, but what's there to laugh about when you have a cracked rib.

42 long

November 16. 2012 03:15 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad,

Thankyou for another dazzling article for us to enjoy :"Abbott and Hockey are endangering Australian business".

Thankyou for your nice words @ 12:19 PM.

Hi Janice that's not fair, Ad Astra didn't say that to me. Do you
think Ad thinks I am too hard and unsympathetic on the Man flu-ers.

Hi Jane  "right ladies? Man flu! Harrumph! you said the same Harrumph as I thought.

Talk Turkey well you said:-

Besides Doctors can't fix Manflu. It's too serious.
We just have to hope we survive . .

You could go to the Vet then.

Miglo and Truth Seeker that's sad not man flu , hope you get better soon.

A couple of tibbits for you:-

Tanya Plibersek‏@tanya_plibersek
TonyAbbottMHR claims credit for listing Gardasil on PBS. That's not how most of us remember it: www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg9lx-1111112503504

Matt Whiteoak‏
Hockey stresses need for surplus: Shadow treasurer says latest IMF appraisal of the Australian economy underscor... http://bit.ly/WcBHyH

Why it’s stupid to blame the media for your side’s political problems, By Gordon
This brings me to my point: who cares what Dennis Shanahan or Michelle Grattan or any other pundit says! The voters who decide elections don’t know who they are let alone why they should trust them so why should you? Getting emotionally attached to a mouth piece is ultimately a self defeating cul-de-sac because it makes you feel powerless and it puts your focus in the wrong area
gordonsthoughts.wordpress.com/.../
SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

November 16. 2012 05:47 PM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
Thank you for your kind compliment, and the additional links.  The Gardasil story shows what a poor grasp Abbott has of public sentiment.  John Howard was much smarter.

BTW, it was janice's astute inclusion of brandy in her flu mixture that evoked my admiration.  Any doctor dispensing that mix would be a hit, especially for  men with that awful affliction - 'man-flu'!

Ad astra reply

November 16. 2012 06:22 PM

Casablanca

Advice to Bishops on Royal Commission
Geoffrey Robinson* November 15, 2012

Individual bishops have already promised 'full cooperation' with the Commission, but the gathered bishops and religious need to have a serious discussion concerning exactly what 'full' cooperation will mean. It is vital that all agree in detail on this point.

* Bishop Geoffrey Robinson is former auxiliary bishop of Sydney and author of Confronting Power and Sex in the Catholic Church.

www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=34128

Casablanca

November 16. 2012 06:40 PM

janice

Ad astra,
BTW, it was janice's astute inclusion of brandy in her flu mixture that evoked my admiration.  Any doctor dispensing that mix would be a hit, especially for  men with that awful affliction - 'man-flu'!

It is an old recipe used widely out in the never never for coughs and colds.
Aspirin is for pain, honey to soothe, brandy as an antiseptic and lemon juice to clear the phlegm.  























janice

November 16. 2012 06:46 PM

Psyclaw

Hi Lyn and Swordsters

Thanks for your concern.

After a family bereavement I've been singularly unmotivated since early September.

However I began lurking here about 6 days ago and likewise at PB where I did put up a couple of posts. The discussions I responded to there were at such a level of ignorance that surprisingly my motivation to briefly "take up the pen" was stirred into action.

I do plan to return to TPS; I haven't jumped ship.

Cheers

Psyclaw

November 16. 2012 06:49 PM

uriah

690 railways public servants sacked (including station masters) today in NSW by OFarrell govt!! Is this good governance or an  idealogical pursuit by the conservatives?

uriah

November 16. 2012 07:03 PM

Lyn

Hi Pysclaw

You have made my day, thankyou for letting us know.

I am so sorry to hear of your sadness and your loss.

Everyone will be thrilled to pieces to see your motivation,
and spirit back,especially your ever pleasing, interesting posts.

SmileSmileSmileSmile





Lyn

November 16. 2012 07:04 PM

Jason

Ad,
  I came across this from Laura Tingle today.


Canberraobserved

Laura Tingle

Rachel Nolan was the transport minister in the Bligh government who oversaw the privatisation of QR National. Like many Bligh government ministers, she lost her seat in the electoral rout that almost wiped Labor off the map in Queensland earlier this year.

Since then, Nolan has spent time mountain bike riding, learning French, getting over politics and considering a new phase of life in the corporate world.

She has also written a stunning response, albeit belated, to my Quarterly Essay  on Australians’ expectations of government.

Her response will appear in the latest edition of QE, which hits the shops next week.

It is worth a read not just because it provides such a wonderfully honest view from inside politics, of expectations of government, but because of what it says about the debate we should be having right now in federal politics about the role of government – and taxing and spending decisions.

Nolan agrees we “have little philosophical grasp of the (rightful) diminution of governmental power which deregulation has brought” .

She also agrees “we are angry at government without a coherent view of what we want from it”.

“When I became minister,” she says, “Queensland had by far the largest state-owned railway in the country, with 15,000 staff and more than 10,000 kilometres of track.

“Queensland Rail Limited had been corporatised in the mid-1990s and was supposed to be run commercially by a management answerable to its board.

“As minister I had a narrow power to give directions to the board, but by convention this power was very rarely exercised.

“Nonetheless, in my first year as transport minister I had a different rent-seeker at my door every day of the week. The mining industry said it couldn’t afford Queensland Rail’s shift to the more commercial “take or pay” contracts, the beef barons didn’t want to be bound by real cost pricing – or indeed by any kind of contract at all – and the unions came to me because they were unable to negotiate with [QR] on even the most basic industrial issues.

“I once found myself being heavied to intervene on whether or not workers at the Rockhampton Railway Workshops should be allowed to wear shorts. Seriously.

“In all cases the rent-seekers – unable to get what they wanted through the corporatised structure – threatened if they didn’t get it from me, they would run an anti-government political campaign. And they did.”

Nolan says the ploy worked because even though parliaments under National Competition Policy had shifted to corporatised models and real-cost pricing for things like railways, electricity, water, ports and telecommunications, “no one really bought the idea government had diminished its own power”.

Everyone believed that while government still owned the company, it was government that was accountable.

What makes Nolan’s experience utterly relevant to current federal politics is that she notes that “the current cost of living debates about electricity and water– which in most jurisdictions are run by state governments under corporatised models – are more examples of the same thinking”.

“In principle, everyone accepts that, except for the poor, households and businesses should pay the real cost of utilities. But when they are government-owned and bills are going up, the whole country will, as it is doing right now, emit a loud collective moan.

“Conduct a focus group in any part of Australia right now and you’ll be told that the cost of living is the hot political issue. It’s been a key campaign topic in every election since the Rudd win in 2007, and yet, as public policy issues go, it embodies a nonsense.

“While state oppositions (of either stripe) criticise state governments for price increases, no one really thinks it’s possible to make the basics much cheaper – and only a bureaucratic lunatic would think it’s efficient to subsidise power or water costs from the consolidated fund.

“Rather, governments are stuck in a no-win political argument over something which they cannot control, and indeed which they quite simply shouldn’t own. Being stuck in that place means they are mired in a political quagmire of their own creation.

“You cannot run the country or set it on a progressive path while you’re still in a political debate that should have finished 15 years ago and while you’re running the day-to-day operations of a series of dense and heavy state-owned bureaucracies. The country is crying out for a clearly stated economic agenda and it’s not, in my view, that hard to get one. Central to it, though, is finishing yesterday’s debates in order to define the role of government for tomorrow.”

The role of governments should be to “provide genuine public goods such as defence, and law and order; public transport infrastructure; and social services – disability support, health and education”.

She says it should also support innovation in infant industries and meet the challenge of sustainability

“In the absence of a clear vision of the modern role of government, people’s expectations extend to the unrealistic and, sometimes, to the bizarre. In 11 years [as an MP], I had a constituent demand I shut down an abattoir next door to the house he bought sight unseen. I’ve been yelled at over swooping magpies – as if I was going to go out there and shoot the things myself – and I’ve repeatedly been told the rising cost of living, from housing to power to petrol, is somehow the government’s fault.”

Nolan says she has no illusions about the political popularity of a privatisation agenda. “As a member of the most recent Queensland Labor government, it’s hard not be pretty clear about the public view.

“But having lived through that experience, it remains my view that the only feasible way to explain to people what you’re not going to do for them is to capture their imagination with what you are.

“No, you can’t give them below-cost power (and I think most Australians in their hearts know that’s true), but you can redefine the nation – you can preserve a social safety net even as the nation approaches a looming demographic cliff; you can spur on the economy by developing trade opportunities and investing in innovation; and you can make the cities and the country sustainable.

“As a progressive, I believe there’s always hope and our current hope lies in setting an agenda for national reinvention. We need to have the guts to make unpopular decisions about what we’re not going to do in order to present a clear picture of the exciting things that we are.”

What she said.

Laura Tingle is the AFR’s political editor


www.afr.com/.../trains_of_thought_on_power_and_politics_GhYf1ODSVd0vgoOgERZlNO

Jason

November 16. 2012 07:21 PM

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Psyclaw
Sorry to hear of your bereavement.  Welcome back to the TPS fold.

Ad astra reply

November 16. 2012 07:23 PM

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Jason
That was a good article. Rachael Nolan's response to Laura Tingle's piece in the QE will be interesting reading.

Ad astra reply

November 16. 2012 07:25 PM

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janice
Your mixture looks like a good old-fashioned remedy.  They still work, but are too often overlooked by the younger generation of medicos.

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November 16. 2012 08:11 PM

jaycee

Janice..Yes, I believe colds and flu's were endemic in the remote parts of the country. When we purchased this property in an isolated location, we thought the previous generations of owners must have been particularly hard hit with such virus's as there were numerous empty "hospital" brandy and plonk bottles thrown and shoved amongst the old straw thaching over the sheds.
Yesh...they shertainly don't make medicines like they used to!  

jaycee

November 16. 2012 08:51 PM

pj

Another great essay here. Tony Abbott has history, losing the election by his own hand of being desperate for power, (ask Tony Windsor), he has been in the longest dummy spit tantrum and his only objective is to denigrate, and/or be negative. That technique has gone down like a lead balloon evident with his 'tad-over-25%' approval rating with Australians.

He doesn't appear to have learnt anything in the process, he has fixed ideology and I have an idea Tom from Menindee? Mooralbok? oops, I mean St Johns IS Tony Abbott. Has as little logic, but makes up with ideology and cracked record.

Sophie Mirabella-know-nothing was talking on radio Tuesday and took great delight in informing her listeners that the coalition was going down the tube with Malvolm Turnbull at the helm until Tony saved them all-AND she has the thousands of emails thanking them for what they did.

Desperate.

D=Don't they have 'something' to offer of substance to Australians or the country?

E=Empty policy bag

S=Sexism and bullying, what better place than St John's to learn that!

P=Not one of them has any personality to speak of.

E=Exhausting negative rhetoric

R=Ranters, no substance but lies

A=Antiquidated, living in past, Abbott's idea of female contribution is virginal daughters gift to mankind, (which Tom of Nuff Nuff agrees with) Smile

T= stands for Tony Abbott, the problem

E=Excellence in stupidty the gang of nothing mindset of coalition, and right next to Fail which makes them 'Epic Fail'.

The coalition it seems, brings out the Bitch in me. And I'm fine with that!

Jaycee, we have met before, wishing the absolute best healing dear friend. So glad you are here with friends. (Pam)

pj

November 16. 2012 08:57 PM

janice

Yesh Jacee, quite so.  Amazing the medicinal qualities contained in a bottle of brandy - the plonk was used to drown the sorrows Smile

janice

November 16. 2012 11:52 PM

jane

Hi Lyn. I am a harrumpher of long standing, particularly when it comes to man flu.

pj @8.51pm, brilliant. Love the bitch!

jane

November 17. 2012 12:50 AM

TalkTurkey

Psyclaw
Good to see you back, sad to hear of your bereavement, but let me make the point, as one recently bereaved myself, I can say with certainty that there is no more comforting therapy than to write one's pain here and receive the symapthy of the beautiful humanists here.

With the exception of that flint-hearted Canary of course. Smile

Open-heart surgery requires that the sternum is severed and the rib cavity forced open, then after the operation the sternum is wired back together like lacing a shoe. Oh boy, while that is healing, one lives in absolute dread of sneezing! And 6 years after that I still feel the wires, they hurt weirdly sometimes too.

Miglo and Truth Seeker I too wish your pains gone, just don't keep such things from your many friends here, this is a better place to bare your soul (or just have a whinge) than any confessional, our sympathy is real and we don't think sin has anything to do with your ailments. Pain shared is pain lessened.    

I adore the people here, you are a wonderful bunch, it makes me wonder what a RW-free society might be like. Cuba, perhaps? At least in Cuba they really care for the sick.


And BTW I found out only earlier the evening that my dear J**** has caught my Manflu too, 'course it's not so serious with women but we do a great duet in coughing ATM!

And she says there was an item on local TV today saying there is a powerful new flu virus around Adelaide, I guess that'd be what we've got.


TalkTurkey

November 17. 2012 07:31 AM

DMW

What an interesting start to the day:

Another hung parliament on the cards  Gemma Daley @TheFin
www.afr.com/.../another_hung_parliament_on_the_cards_XPHjFqaRUY5IabV4OeM6LO

DMW

November 17. 2012 08:44 AM

jaycee

Pam...Thank you for you consideration on my health, but I am over that man flu now...I believe I passed it on to TT. on night when I accidently bumped into him crouching behind a bush outside Chrissy Pyne's house, where he had just set alight a suspicious small paper-bag full of something on Pyne's doorstep...Chrissy was there with his foot about to descend soundly on the bag and cursing;"bloody kids!" and I bumped in to this grinning person crouching behind the bush..I coughed politely as a warning and he quickly moved away, humming "I only have eyes for you" as he went. It was the cough that transferred the flu, I believe.
But then...I could be absolutely bloody wrong!

jaycee

November 17. 2012 08:52 AM

KHTAGH

AA
  A great start to Saturday catching up with your first class article [as always], followed by all the great posters here, It was great to see some original posts from Bushfire Bill too.

  I would like to take this opportunity to say sorry if some of my posts over the last few months have been a bit self centric, I'll try to stay on topic in future.

As the fog of Methadone [taken for pain relief] has left my system things are a lot clearer[it is truly a hideous drug], behavioral aberrations are more obvious in hind sight for which I'm sorry.

KHTAGH

November 17. 2012 09:15 AM

Lyn

Jaycee

If you keep this up I won't be able to do any work at all.

Forget the dry eyes laughter is the best medicine.

You are hilarious, I can't see my computer screen for laughing.

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

November 17. 2012 09:23 AM

jaycee

KHGATH...with the predominance of "boomers" on this site, you could be "juiced to the gills".."high as a kite" or "tripping the slight-funtastic" and you'd still be amongst understanding people!....We all have either "been there" or we hold admission tickets to the dress-circle for the show!
You have another good day!

jaycee

November 17. 2012 09:32 AM

TalkTurkey

Janice said
I offer you a comfort remedy to soothe and lessen your pain:  Dissolve an aspirin,1 tablespoon of honey in a slug of brandy, and the juice of a lemon.  Sip mixture slowly.  When finished, make another brew omitting the aspirin and increasing the brandy - sip as required to ease symptoms.  

Yes Janice I'd already employed the brandy and the aspirin, but for my dear J**** I have made up the potion you recommend. She really has an awful cough though she is not so snotty, so runny, so achey as I am, it really is a nasty flu and it hasn't left me yet. If there was a way to avoid contracting it I'd recommend you do it, maybe take a flu shot, anyway avoid spreading it to aged and infirm people, don't visit hospitals etc.

Jaycee what did I have in that bag? I'm intrigued . . Smile

Grasshopper you posts are never to be apologised for, this is a very relaxed blog and your contributions are as interesting as they are individual. (Which is VERY.)  

TalkTurkey

November 17. 2012 09:34 AM

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pj
Thank you for your kind comment and for your DESPERATE acronym.  Very clever!  ‘Exhausting negative rhetoric’ is the Coalition’s trademark.

KHTAGH
It’s good to see you back. Thank you for your complimentary remarks.  It’s good to see that you are feeling better.  Your comments are always welcome here.

jaycee
You have a keen sense of humour.

TT
I hope your man-flu is subsiding and that J is improving too.

Thank you for your call yesterday when I was mowing.  With a stiff southwesterly blowing the cut grass back at me I came in looking like one of those hairy monsters in Sesame Street.  But the place looks better and hopefully will need only one more mow before summer.

I’m glad the Archive problem has been resolved.

DMW
Another hung parliament would just about finish off poor old Tony.

Ad astra reply

November 17. 2012 09:35 AM

DMW

Good Morning Ad,
on a tangential way Ross Gittins earlier this week put his case for how 'the opposition' is 'endangering Australian business' and reform.

What business needs to learn about politics
www.rossgittins.com/.../...eds-to-learn-about.html

Gittins lets fly from his opening paragraph:
The way big business sees it, economic reform has ground to a halt because the politicians on both sides have lost the political will to make the tough decisions. But I think big business must share the blame for the stalemate we've reached.

Business big and small have to play their part in any reform and they aren't doing it at least not in any way that will bring about effective reforms. He doesn't say it but we, the punters have a part to play too but we need to see that government and business are working towards the same ends, a better working economy that benefits all.

It's not hard to see what the problem is. Each side is afraid that, if it showed the slightest interest in considering (a) topic, the other side will use this as a pretext to launch a scare campaign.

The lust for power trumps everything and determines how political players play the game and that lust is not restricted to one side or the other nor are 'minor' players immune as they seek to have a greater influence on those that have power.

In the pursuit of power 'all is fair'. Power can only be gained when it siezed and any tactic to weaken one's opponent in the pursuit of power is 'fair' hence the 'scare campaign' and the scare campaign is used by all sides in their quest for power.

The point is, it's not so much unhappy voters governments fear, it's their political opponents seeking to take advantage of the voters' unhappiness.

We are living with government by fear and we are playing into the hands of that fear and uncertainty. It doesn't matter which side a person supports they more often than not invoke the fear of 'the other side would be worse'.

Is there a solution?

Strong leadership prepared stare down the fear campaigns and do what is best for the nation as a whole? Difficult to see that happening when the government is only one vote of no confidence away from falling.

Gittins has more to say which is, as always, fodder for deep thought and a wider discussion.

DMW

November 17. 2012 09:41 AM

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DMW
Thank you for the Gittins reference.  He is always good value.

It may well feed into the next piece I’m considering, which addresses the role of businessmen in shaping politics.

Ad astra reply

November 17. 2012 09:57 AM

jaycee

This idea that "strong leadership" will solve national issues is a furthy, in mu opinion. The Prime Minister has shown, strength of character, determination on policy and all the decision making skills so lacking in the desparate opposition.
Really!..what more can a govt' do? Policy after policy!..plan after plan..reports, reviews..follow-up proceedures and all this on a hung parliament!!with the independants and a suckhole MSM sword of Damocles swinging over their heads!
Christ!! if the business leaders showed half the bloody gumption that has been demonstrated by our political leaders AND the community concilliation, we'd ALL be singing from the same song-sheet instead of doing their blasted best to join in with the sooking opposition to destabilise the elected govt'!
Damn their lazy eyes!

jaycee

November 17. 2012 10:02 AM

jaycee

TT..What did you have in that bag?...perhaps it was your 'boyish' good humour!

jaycee

November 17. 2012 10:13 AM

Tom of Melbourne

” Really!..what more can a govt' do?

That’s a great question, and here are a few pointers-

➢  Keep the election commitments it made. particularly the unqualified ones.
➢  Be honest.
➢  Keep your word, particularly the written ones you make to an independent MP.

Tom of Melbourne

November 17. 2012 10:39 AM

jaycee

All for Tom..just for Tommy..."Tommy Tomato"...Let's all purge the entire political and bleedin' ethical world for bleedin', bloody, hopeless, gutless and useless bloody Tom!
What use are you really; Tom?....What bloody, stinkin' use are you really?....I'll tell you what use you are...a bloody useless complainer..that's all..: a useless bloody complainer...now do a "Billy Connelly" and F off!..you are boring us all bloody shiteless!

jaycee

November 17. 2012 11:28 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad and Everybody,

Here is Twitterverse for you:-

Bushfire Bill
Posted Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 8:19 am
Julia Gillard was out of the country, wasn’t she? In Bali? Meeting with world leaders?

There’d been a TV interview on Lateline, true, but that was only about a week before, right?

You don’t just decide to have Royal Commissions overnight, do you?

blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1474238

Bushfire Bill
Posted Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 9:34 am
Missed this at the end of the Hartcher article:

But the greatest challenge for these "moral compasses" {the independents} of the Gillard government may lie ahead. The scandal of Gillard's long-ago boyfriend, Bruce Wilson, will not go away.

blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1474283

Bushfire Bill
Posted Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 10:20 am
Pin Stripe Pete” Hartcher is now right up there with Dennis Shanahan and Coke Bottles as one of the more ridiculous fantasists of the Old Media.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1474314

Gillard and the AWU slush fund: sorting the smoke from the fire, Coff’s Outlook, Matthew Knott
Since July, the front pages of The Australian — and more recently The Age — have been dominated by stories about a 17-year-old scam perpetrated by Julia Gillard’s former boyfriend, ex-Australian Workers Union official Bruce Wilson. Conservative commentators and bloggers are convinced it could bring the PM down; the Prime Minister and her allies call it “smear”.

Crikey has reviewed the news coverage since the issue was revived and tried to distill — beyond the rhetoric — what has actually been uncovered …

in the tens of thousands of words devoted to the story, no evidence that Gillard knew the fund was going to be used for Wilson and Blewitt’s personal gain has emerged. Or that Gillard was aware of the scam until before it became public. Or that she personally benefited from it. Or that she has lied about her actions.

Unless such evidence emerges, it seems the Prime Minister will be able to stick to her refrain that she did nothing wrong and no one will be able to disprove it.
coffsoutlook.com/.../

Those “Gillard AWU scandal” stories, Jeremy Sear,
Carry on wasting your time then, media and Liberal Party.
Oh, and just so you know what effect your obsession with this non-story has – it increasingly conveys that you’re really not all that confident in your attacks on what an “incompetent failure” she’s actually been in office. If someone has a good argument against a government policy, they don’t spend all their time on 17 year old smears that months and months of desperate effort still haven’t managed to turn into an actual allegation of wrongdoing.
anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/.../

Media statement from Slater & Gordon Managing Director, Andrew Grech, regarding article published in The Age and online by Mark Baker, Slater Gordon
The reporting today by Mr Baker is misleading. The facts of Ms Gillard’s role in the conveyancing matter are already on the public record. As reported recently in other media outlets, other practitioners within the firm were responsible for the conduct of the conveyancing file.
www.slatergordon.com.au/.../Media-statement-regarding-article-published-in

Catholic connection weighs on Abbott, Tony Walker, AFR
Abbott’s responses to the royal commission have been adequate, including his observation that “victims must be allowed to heal, and perpetrators must be brought to justice”, but politically he needs to do more.
www.afr.com/.../catholic_connection_weighs_on_abbott_bJRmFz4xMshh9MGtqvhPfO

NSW politics’ ugliest years , Neil Chenoweth, AFR
Separately, the article by the AFR on Friday, December 19, about Graham Richardson’s Swiss bank account – part of a $29 million payout that Rene Rivkin had organised from shares in Offset Alpine Printing Group after an insurance payout from a fire – reawoke a controversy from the past
www.afr.com/.../nsw_politics_ugliest_years_hWqSgkNBODtPIVpCXFlTIJ

Galling defiance amid the shame, Mike Carlton
www.smh.com.au/.../...he-shame-20121116-29hb9.html

Independents' day – again, Peter Hartcher
Labor's internal opposition leader, Kevin Rudd, from Dubai, called for an inquiry. The external Leader of the Opposition, Tony Abbott, agreed to support a royal commission in the event that the government wanted one. Some Labor backbenchers, the Left's Melissa Parke and Doug Cameron, were finding their voices, too, even as their leaders held mum.
The scandal of Gillard's long-ago boyfriend, Bruce Wilson, will not go away.
www.smh.com.au/.../...y--again-20121116-29heq.html

Commission on child sex abuse a depressing example of populist politics, Paul Kelly
THE dismal, populist and doomed quality of Australian governance has been on display this week with Julia Gillard announcing an in-principle royal commission into child sexual abuse, a panicked Tony Abbott falling into line and an ignorant media offering cheer upon cheer.

Rarely has an Australian goverment embarked on such a sensitive and vast project in profound ignorance of what it was doing, with virtually no serious policy consideration and driven entirely by politics.
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg74x-1226518423478

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott learns to fight smarter,Laurie Oakes
Abbott and his advisers have been playing a more skilful game overall.
Take his approach to a royal commission into paedophilia. Abbott supported the idea before Gillard's announcement that it would go ahead.

Getting in first helped to counter the "rigidly Catholic" allegation levelled against him - as did his assertion that the sanctity of the confessional should not exempt priests from reporting child abuse.
www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-fn56baaq-1226518420071

Abbott proposes 'e-Safety' watchdog to combat cyber-bullying, Bianca Hall
www.smh.com.au/.../...bullying-20121116-29gm7.html

John Pratt‏
Carbon contradiction clouds coal's future. Politicians refuse to face reality. #climate #auspol #qldpol #nswpolwww.canberratimes.com.au/business/-29hn9.html

AshGhebranious‏
Double HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA Coalition now TRAILING in QLD 2pp. Thanks Campbell! #auspol

Popi‏
Queensland Premier Newman to publicly release diaries of his LNP ministers www.couriermail.com.au/.../story-e6freoof-1226518499937 … via @couriermail Labor was RIGHT,#kaosqld

The Finnigans
Posted Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 9:47 am
Yay, the talkie talkie BISONs RT @GenGusface Want to know the truth about Oz’s economy? – its all here soundcloud.com/.../bisons-podcast-2012-02-16 … …

Tony Abbott and his Gardasil lie.
www.youtube.com/watch

LNP Tangled Web
resources.news.com.au/.../...-lnps-tangled-web.pdf

Bill McKibben‏
24 scientific articles reject global warming! (out of 13,950) thinkprogress.org/.../

SmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

November 17. 2012 11:59 AM

jaycee

Thanks for the links, Lyn...I see Bushfire Bill is having the same sense of exasperation with Hartcher as I had with "Mr. T".
Seriously though, AA...in your profession as a practicioner, these types that relentless pursue a deluded opinion like it is a "set-in-stone" gospel truth, are they a type of addict?...An addict to that one sentence or opinion that they have relentlessly worked over and sculptured till they have every word, every punctuation in "just the right place" then surely, surely the whole world cannot fail to see their point and will proclaim their correctness from the highest balcony!
The seemingly tireless repetition of the stupid post...the inflexible mind-set of dogmatic dopeyness...it would drive a spouse to flee, the postman to slink and even the dog to crawl away!.....Such people must surely, AA, be ill?
But you know, in my sixty something years of living, I have net so many of these skulking "Toms and Hartchers" in so many places and whatever sympathy they glean, however many encouragements they are given or whatever assistance is generously heaped upon them...all you will EVER get in return is a Judas Kiss!

jaycee

November 17. 2012 12:24 PM

Tom of Melbourne

It’s funny the way some people get all sooky about political facts.

Tom of Melbourne

November 17. 2012 12:24 PM

Ad astra reply

Hi Lyn
Thank you again for another comprehensive set of links, all interesting and well chosen.  The items related to the S&G matter all point to the fact that what Julia Gillard originally said about her involvement is as valid as ever.  I suspect that the attacks in News Limited and Fairfax are a precursor to the Julie Bishop attacks that will inevitably come in the last sitting week of parliament.  These papers seem to be preparing the public for a Bishop onslaught using the old ‘where’s there smoke, there’s fire’ tactic.

I could not open the Slater and Gordon statement.  Could you please check the link, or perhaps paste the full text as a comment so we can read what it says.

Ad astra reply

November 17. 2012 12:32 PM

Ad astra reply

jaycee
Peter Hartcher seems to have an unremitting hatred of Julia Gillard.  That came out strongly in what was his otherwise informative book Sweet Spot.   He never misses an opportunity to berate her, and elevate his favourite, Kevin Rudd.  It is so unrelenting that your suggestion that it is an obsession comes into play.  

While virtually every commentator has given PM Gillard credit for initiating the Royal Commission, he condemns her for what he describes as her prevarication, procrastination, evasiveness and inertia.  He could scarcely have employed more unpleasant descriptors for what he sees as her inaction, or her slow action, or her ‘not nearly fast enough to satisfy Hartcher’ action.  

If she had acted immediately from Bali, without taking the time to ascertain the full story and consult her Cabinet, her would have condemned her for precipitate, unthinking, un-consultative, unilateral, authoritarian, panic-stricken action.

With Hartcher, our PM cannot win.  Which, to use favourite phraseology of journalists, ‘raises questions’ about Hartcher’s judgement and his state of mind.  Hartcher has questions to answer, just as he insists PM Gillard has.

Ad astra reply

November 17. 2012 12:37 PM

Lyn

Hi Ad,

Glad you enjoyed the Twitterverse.

Funny how the Journalists keep saying the S&G story won't go away, I say to them well Duh! you keep saying it won't go away. Stupid isn't it.

Here is the S&G statement they had moved it under another tab.

Media statement from Slater & Gordon Managing Director, Andrew Grech, regarding article published in The Age and online by Mark Baker
13 November 2012
Media Release

In an article published online and in The Age today by Mr Mark Baker it was claimed that:

“LAW firm Slater & Gordon has contradicted Julia Gillard's claim that she was not in charge of legal work for the purchase in 1993 of a Fitzroy property later found to have been bought with stolen union money.’

Mr Baker also wrote:

“But Slater & Gordon managing director Andrew Grech has confirmed Ms Gillard ''acted directly'' in the conveyancing work on the property purchase. The confirmation came in documents lodged with the Australian Press Council in support of a complaint against Fairfax newspapers and this journalist over reporting of the firm's role in the Australian Workers Union ''slush fund'' scandal.’

The reporting today by Mr Baker is misleading. The facts of Ms Gillard’s role in the conveyancing matter are already on the public record. As reported recently in other media outlets, other practitioners within the firm were responsible for the conduct of the conveyancing file.
www.slatergordon.com.au/.../Media-statement-regarding-article-published-in-The-Age

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

November 17. 2012 12:52 PM

Ad astra reply

Thanks Lyn
ALthough one would hope that the S&G statement would provide the clarification that journalists seem to be seeking, we know it won't.  They simply won't let go while they think their stream of articles is damaging PM Gillard.  But I wonder how many voters read their contorted ramblings.

Ad astra reply

November 17. 2012 01:14 PM

jaycee

The continued pursuit of the dead-end story just for contrary's sake and to try and political damage the govt' is what I was referring to in my last post.
The MSM. has been shown to be lacking perception in story after story, yet they persist in deluding themselves..Is it an obsession bordering on an illness? Surely it must be more yhan just orneyness!? People like Hartcher and Jones and Kelly et all can't seem to let go even in the face of making an absolute laughing stock of themselves to the whole blogging community!...are they beyond help?

jaycee

November 17. 2012 01:16 PM

TalkTurkey

This is tragic. Biodiversity is my first concern and its destruction is my greatest source of pain.

www.theage.com.au/.../...risis-20121116-29hi9.html

TalkTurkey

November 17. 2012 01:17 PM

Tom of Melbourne

” They simply won't let go while they think their stream of articles is damaging PM Gillard.

Is this the reason, or is the historical integrity of a Prime Minister a legitimate matter of public interest?

If, as a lawyer, a Prime Minister has put the interests of her lover in front of both her employer, and their client, this goes to the character of the individual.

If she then tries to falsely explain it as the actions of a “young and naïve” woman, rather than a middle 30s professional, politically active partner in a major legal firm, that also goes to character.

It seems Our Prime Minister is being legitimately scrutinized on questions of character, judgment and integrity? Or aren’t these matters of interest to the media or the public?

Tom of Melbourne

November 17. 2012 01:21 PM

Truth Seeker

Only in the mindlessness of the troll!

Truth Seeker

November 17. 2012 01:32 PM

Bacchus

One thing that seems to be consistently missing from all the AWU scandal "reporting" attempting to tie Julia Gillard in - FACTS. As many here have said, but others unsurprisingly, are too thick to grasp, it's all based on rumour and innuendo. The Australian and certain Fairfax commentators are a FACT FREE ZONE.

Bacchus

November 17. 2012 01:50 PM

DMW

jaycee @ 9:57 AM
This idea that "strong leadership" will solve national issues is a furthy, in mu opinion.

An interesting opinion but is it backed up by facts?

It is agreed widely that the Hawke/Keating government achieved many great things which set the country up for where it is today. That administration pushed through the screams and wails of vested interests and did what was needed in the best interests of the nation as a whole as they saw it then.

Lobbyists, vested interests and carpet baggers where sent packing if they didn't come armed with a well researched case backed by facts to support their pleadings. That took strong leadership  on the part of ministers, their department heads and other players.

The early part of the Howard/Costello regime operated in a similar fashion. It is hard to pinpoint an exact time when 'things changed' though indications are it was late 2000 early 2001 when instead of a fact based submission all you needed was some good 'market research' backed up by appropriate opinion polling.

Government changed from leading to being led by 'research' into what the public wants not what the nation needs in many instances.

Even the most rusted on partisan barracker of either the LNP or the ALP, if they thought for longer than a moment and a half, would be able to find an example where their side had been led by 'the court of public opinion' rather than basing their action on well researched fact based policy.

Strong leadership can win the day against public opinion and if you want just one example think back to John Howard and his guns policy.

DMW

November 17. 2012 01:52 PM

Jason

Bacchus,
       The editorial in the Australian on Thursday 15/11/12 said "While we make no claim - nor is there any evidence - that Ms Gillard had knowledge of Wilson's fraud, her responses have been inadequate."

How do you respond to something you don't know about?


www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frg71x-1226516925438

Jason

November 17. 2012 01:55 PM

Bacchus

That pretty well epitomises the SOP of The Australian here Jason - "We got nuthin' but that's not gonna stop us makin' $#!t up!"

Bacchus

November 17. 2012 02:00 PM

Bacchus

Didn't someone famous one say, "Don't write crap. Can't be that hard, and when you have written complete crap, then I think you should correct it."? Wink

Bacchus

November 17. 2012 02:35 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Brought to you by the people who think saying “Thomson has a case to answer” is “trolling”

Tom of Melbourne

November 17. 2012 02:39 PM

Gravel

Ad Astra

Bushfire Bill and yourself have put your finger on something that has puzzled me for quite a while.  Businesses have so much to lose, they also supposedly have their finger on the financial pulse, so it doesn't make sense to do what they are doing.  Do they think that if the Coalition is elected that people will overnight go back to spending big?  That all the rubbish that has been spread around will just cease to exist.  The harm the state governments are doing will hurt Australia for years to come no matter who wins in 2013.

psyclaw

Sincere condolences  on your family loss.  Look forward to your future comments when you are able to.

Hey Guys

Thanks for the MAN FLU inside info, I'm still laughing.

Got to go, grandson waiting to use computer to build something on some game or other.

Gravel

November 17. 2012 02:42 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Sponsored by those that say people are “trolls” - when they suggest that Gillard broke her written commitment to Wilkie.

Proudly brought to you by those who think pointing out that this government has held every possible position on asylum seekers is "trolling"

Tom of Melbourne

November 17. 2012 02:47 PM

Ad astra reply

Gravel
The question you ask is germane.  It is one I will address in my next piece; Do Australian businessmen really believe Tony Abbott?

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November 17. 2012 02:48 PM

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Folks
We are getting on the road now for Melbourne and a granddaughter's concert this evening.  I'll be back tomorrow.

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November 17. 2012 03:01 PM

jaycee

DMW..The Hawke/ Keating govts' had a majority..even a majority of one (Howard in senate) is enough to get your policies through without opposition and THAT would look like strong leadership. Julia Gillard has had to get over 400 bits of stuff through WITHOUT a majority AND had to give ground on some in the process, yet She has succeeded and pulled the party back from the brink ALL without a shred of support from the MSM..indeed!..in spite of it...Now THAT..is leadership!...Howard?...I fart in his general direction!

AA. That Troll will not go away even if no-one responded to him for a year because he is not interested in competing in debate, but he is here as a graffiti marker and his posts are just "tags"...hence the nonsensical repeats...he knows the mood of the site so doesn't need a response, like the graffiti marker, he knows how to offend without having to witnesss the outrage. I suspect he does this type of thing on several sites till he gets banned and even that, he would consider a "win". I am afraid "Tom" is a spawn of the internet ether and roams without direction or order and certainly without a life from "town to town"....one of the internet-ethereal homeless.

jaycee

November 17. 2012 03:04 PM

KHTAGH

TT

Biodiversity is my first concern and its destruction is my greatest source of pain.

  Did you & everyone else catch ABC's catalyst this week "taking the nations temperature" I found it so scary & the conclusions are not pretty, we are all in serious trouble. Flocks of parrots falling out of the sky dead from the heat. As TT says "Dog help us". Back to my first day as a 54 yr old.

KHTAGH

November 17. 2012 03:18 PM

Bacchus

♫ Happy birthday KHTAGH! ♬

You're catching up to me - we're both in our 55th year Laughing

And yes, there were some very worrying items in that Catlyst show - fishing down your way may get better though Wink

Bacchus

November 17. 2012 04:15 PM

Truth Seeker

November must be a significant month for the procreation of those with a left leaning!
♫ Happy birthday KHTAGH! ♬

Cheers

Truth Seeker

November 17. 2012 04:20 PM

KHTAGH

Bacchus

  Re fishing, yes your so right I dived every 2-3 days [using a hookah] on the east coast until 2 yrs ago[LOVE fresh crayfish & abalone] & as a lifetime keeper of tropical saltwater fish I can now see fish living on the east coast I had to import from Cairns.

We are catching yellow tail in the bay I live on now [Frederic Henry bay]. Nope I'm 1 yr behind you, starting on the 54th yr, I have been saying for the last few months I was 54 trying it on for size so to speak, 58 vintage.

KHTAGH

November 17. 2012 04:28 PM

KHTAGH

Bacchus
You are right, in reflection we are in out 55th yr "slaps forehead" already to many reds, & I still have to go out for tea. I even had to turn down a swarm collection due to B/D.

KHTAGH

November 17. 2012 04:28 PM

Miglo

Happy birthday, KHTAGH.  A fellow Scorpio.

Miglo

November 17. 2012 04:31 PM

Marilyn

Jaycee, Gillard had an agenda approved by the indies before they sided with her and has the friendliest senate since adam was a boy.

When an agenda is agreed it is not that hard to get it passed.

What is depraved is the continued racist and bigotted attacks on aborigines, refugees and gays supported by the two mobs of racist bigots in the major parties.

Marilyn

November 17. 2012 04:33 PM

Bacchus

'58 was obviously a very good year KHTAGH Laughing

Bacchus

November 17. 2012 04:40 PM

Bacchus

KHTAGH,

We have son and daughter-in-law coming over for tea tonight - the bubbly and a selection of beers are in the fridge, I'll put the red in to chill slightly a little later on (it's very hot in SEQ today) and the nihonshu (sake) will be fine at room temperature.

I hope your head recovers well tomorrow - none-the-less, enjoy your day...

Bacchus

November 17. 2012 04:42 PM

Patriciawa

Yes, Truth Seeker, quite a few of us Scorpio birthdays around on TPS!

           ♫ Happy birthday,  KHTAGH! ♬

I'm not a great one for horoscopes but perhaps today's is worth noting!  Seems like good advice generally!

You have the power to shape your world with your words and thoughts and emotions. You actually have complete control over all these things even if you sometimes feel you don't! For example, you can alienate people with your debates today or you can work harder to stay calm and convince them with your wit. Go with the wit, not the fury!

Patriciawa

November 17. 2012 04:45 PM

2353

Psyclaw - Commiserations on your loss.  Come back in your own time.

KNTAGH - Most of us are of the era to know that if you can remember the late 70's, you weren't there!  Happy birthday.

DMW - You're correct on the leadership thing.  Gillard has had to build a consensus on every thing she has done since the 2010 election, unlike Howard, Keating, Hawke or Fraser.  That is real leadership.  Also the reason Troll form Melbourne posts here is that a number of his other options have been closed off (he's been banned).

2353

November 17. 2012 04:54 PM

BSA Bob

Well glancing through tinted glasses at today's Oz, it seems they've cranked things up to twelve, can thirteen & more be far behind? Not content with talking the economy down they now seek to talk the country's governance down. Truly prepared to destroy the village in order to save it (for themselves).
I didn't look too closely but thought I detected a similar line to that which Abbott uses- promoting some convenient Laborites to temporary (very temporary) GOOD PEOPLE in order to score points by selective comparisons.
As someone said, not the sort of thing you do if you've got rational arguments to mount instead.

BSA Bob

November 17. 2012 05:38 PM

jaycee

2353. No, you AND DMW are incorrect on the leadership issue. True leadership is not just taking command by majority and passing the bleedin' obvious policy. True leadership is leading by consultation and concilliation...the other is a junta.
Gillard has three things going against her..1)She's the first female Prime Minister, so there is uncertainty in assessing her leadership style as against a male's style. 2)She is leading a minority govt' in a hung parliament..you can work the difficulties of THAT situation out for yourself. 3)She has had to fight a battle on two fronts : a fifth-column in her own party and the MSM. continual slander and accusations. Even the great Whitlam was brought down by the relentless press. Parnell too was undone by bad press, yet here we have the first female Prime Minister, not only taking on AND defeating the barbarian hordes, but winning through for the party....ONWARD EXCELSIOR!!
No, both you; 2353 and DMW are so wrong!
Marilyn.
You must by now be old enough to be aware of the politics of possibility. Being as savvy as you claim to be, you have to be aware that a degree of cunning and swerving is necessary to obtain your ends in the game of politics...yes, it is a dirty game..yes, there are racists and bastards in both major parties..just like every family..and no, we "morons" here do not always totally agree with the decisions made in our name, but we are mature enough to realise that in the politics of the possible there is always another "possible" being cooked up.
I would suggest that if you are childish enough to believe that every injustice in this world can be corrected by screaming at those least able to implement change, then I suggest you find yourself a time-machine, go back and drag Christ down off that cross while he is still alive and kicking and plead his innoccence to the Romans!...Mind you, from what I read of Tiberius (Emperor at the time) and his side-kick nephew;  Caligula, I doubt you would get much of a hearing....but good luck anyway!...after all anything is possible!

jaycee

November 17. 2012 05:49 PM

jaycee

2353...did I read you right, you agreed with DMW on the leadership issue, yet then supported the Gillard style of consenses?...I may be wrong, but I took it that DMW disagreed with the Gillard style of leadership..correct me if I am mistaken.

jaycee

November 17. 2012 06:07 PM

Gorgeous Dunny

Catching up after a brief hiatus offline. Good post again, AA, and a long due one in a sense. Constant repetition of hyperbole and porkies can be allowed to creep into the dialogue. Thus we almost have a Pavlovian situation of Abbott mentioning "Pink Batts!" to invoke "Labor government stuff-up", which the HIS was not

Putting down the performance of the government and the Australian economy has become an Orwellian thing. We are supposed to believe that white is black.

The irony is that only the Scandinavian countries are remotely similar in terms of satisfactory economic and employment performance in the developed world.

We have had Hockey and Truss assert that we're approaching Greek levels of debt and chaos. The other economic pretender, Robb, apparently thinks he has a point in droning on and on about the $ level of debt, where the only thing that counts is the ratio of debt to GDP. On that account, ours is about 10%. Germany's is about 60%. the US is around 100%, and Greece and Spain don't bear thinking about.  We've got a problem? Where?

Yet we have tossers like Newman apparently taking the gross and not the net debt literally, and equating the Queensland economic situation with Spain's!  And he's using it as an excuse to dismantle the public sector and actually accelerate sending Queensland into stagnancy!

As Bushfire has said, the constant repetition of these lies actually helps to take away confidence, almost the same way as if people suddenly think their money's not safe in a bank.

Tom's repetition of the mantra is to be expected, but I was surprised Jason didn't put in his usual slapdown. I briefly tackle it:
<i> Oddly, debt is the problem with the frailty of the international economy. But Swan has seen it as the solution.

…and please before anyone repeats Gillard’s totally inaccurate analogy about the debt of a household, choose a better one than our economically illiterate Prime Minister.

Tom of Melbourne  </i>

Here's somebody prepared to ignore the real world.  Even Abbott and Hockey have admitted when overseas that the Australian economy is going well.

Tom, old son, you don't get 3-star ratings from all the credit assessing agencies of the world if your government has a debt or ability to repay problem.  Think about that. NO other Australian government in our history has achieved that rating from all agencies. It's one of only seven in the world.

And you're trying to pretend the PM at the head of all this is an economic illiterate?  Impossible, unless you think that Abbott/Hockey/Joyce/Robb talk sense. You'd qualify for membership of the Mad Hatters Tea Party if that was the case.

But of course it is Tea Party tactics, all that nihilism. Another one is trying to disprove Obama is an American, which is about on par with the nonsense you are echoing about AWU/ Slater and Gordon.

Get a life and talk about policy and vision!

Gorgeous Dunny

November 17. 2012 06:26 PM

Lyn

Khtagh


♫ Happy birthday KHTAGH! ♬

Happy Birthday to you :kiss:

Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss

Lyn

November 17. 2012 06:27 PM

jane

jaycee @8.44am, might I ask why you were also lurking outside the House of Prissy?

Were you about to seek advice from Prissy on anger management, facial floridity or eye bulging?

Or mayhap advice from that doyen of good manners and behaviour on how to deal with apoplexy in public places, particularly our nation's capital?

As for the contents of TT's bag, I'm sure it was just a small votive offering to everyone's second favourite Parliamentary sprinter, possibly a chequered flag or the sweat from a gazelle's brow.

And @3.01pm, couldn't agree more. It's easy to show strong leadership when you don't have to constantly negotiate a minefield of external interests and personalities to maintain support for a minority government as well as dealing with a recalcitrant, relentlessly negative and obstructionist opposition.

The pokies legislation is a case in point. Despite the unrealistic whining from some wrt "written agreements", if the legislation does not attract majority support, it will fail.

I think Andrew Wilkie has reconciled himself to the fact that even though pokies reform is also part of the ALP platform, you can't get legislation passed if you don't have the support.

I think this PM has done an amazing job, considering the obstacles she has faced and overcome.

KHTAGH, your comments have always been coherent and to the point, imo. Nothing to apologise for.

I'm sorry that you have had to take such heavy duty drugs for the pain you've been suffering. I hope that you will be pain free from now on.

psyclaw, sorry to read of your bereavement. Mend soon.

Lyn @12.37pm, nBaker's report isn't misleading, it's an outright lie. Andrew Grech not only did not contradict what the PM said, he confirmed what she stated wrt the Fitzroy property.

I think it's time Baker copped a complaint and a threat of legal action unless a front page retraction and apology in a very large font for deliberately lying is published by this lying toerag.

Jason, don't you just love that these idiots are openly admitting that although they know there is no substance, or indeed any evidence to support their continued allegations that Julia Gillard had any knowledge about Wilson's fraud, they find that her responses have been inadequate?

But no acknowledgement of their very much less than adequate reporting on this non-story.

Wankers all.

jane

November 17. 2012 06:38 PM

Tom of Melbourne

How much of our economic growth is due to the fact that about 40% of our exports are to China, India and South Korea?

Does Swan have anything to do with that?
----------------------------------
There was a time that ALP supporters would seek challenge, demonstrate their capability in policy and integrity by facing up to testing.

Not now, and certainly not here. These days ALP supporters (here) prefer to skulk around, unchallenged, resorting to mindless name calling, and seeking bans to the challenge.

It’s hilarious the why this site has the tag of “putting commentators and politicians to the verbal sword”, when most of the commentators are cloying apologists for a dishonest Prime Minister.

Tom of Melbourne

November 17. 2012 07:22 PM

Patriciawa

Jane, thinking about that gazelle in TT's bag reminds me of Abbott's famous sprint!  polliepomes.wordpress.com/.../

Thomson’s Gazump. Or Was That A Gazelle?

It was the Member for Dobell,
Deciding he would cross the floor,
Who sent Tony Abbott pell mell
Running for the chamber door.

Delicious irony! Farewell,
Keys to The Lodge, for evermore!
That’s a story pollies will tell
For many years to come, for sure.

The man condemned to living hell
In a cruel, relentless war
Fought back, unexpectedly so well
He brought his enemy to the floor.

Time will come for the final bell,
There’s a bit of action still in store.
But will anything this tale excel
In Aussie parliamentary lore?

I am so hoping that Thomson comes out of this with the clean record he claims and which so far no police or parliamentary enquiry has been able to mark down.

Patriciawa

November 17. 2012 08:07 PM

Jason

ToM,
   Apart from picking on public servants do you have anything to offer? you recycle the same old shit day after long fucking day!
We get you don't like the PM but be honest yourself if you want to call her the names you or make claims man up an put your real name to your comments, or are you so gutless that you can't?

As for the name of this site so what? start your own dickhead, since you were 110 years of age when you fell out of your mothers arse why don't you give us all the benifit of your wisdom and show us all how it's done?



Jason

November 17. 2012 09:20 PM

Sir Ian Crisp

Three cheers for AA. At last an Abbott bashing article. The article is a rehash of AA’s many anti-Abbott articles but it means I am now able to abandon my self-imposed hunger strike. Even though I lost 7kg I must admit I like the look of a leaner Sir Ian Crisp.

Does anyone at TPS agree with the article in the Fin by Grace Collier in which she refers to our PM as possessing the persona of a likeable bogan? I have written to the Fin and demanded the removal of Ms Collier.

Sir Ian Crisp

November 17. 2012 09:29 PM

Jason

Sir Ian
       You might look better but you still have shit for brains!

Jason

November 17. 2012 09:57 PM

Sir Ian Crisp

I know you don't mean that JGuy.

Sir Ian Crisp

November 17. 2012 10:27 PM

jane

Patricia, love the pome, particularly [b]pell[b] mell! I second your sentiments wrt Craig Thomson.

In that event, I hope all his tormenters' noses are rubbed without mercy in his victory and he manages to squeeze vast sums of money out of the buggers.

Ditto Slipper.

I'm losing track of all the November birthdays, so I will just wish all Scorpions and Archers many happy returns, more delicious cake than you can possibly eat, enough candles to rival the sun, fabulous presents, a comprehensive win by the ALP in 2013 and the vanquishing of the ghastly Liealot and the Liars Party.

jane

November 17. 2012 11:24 PM

2353

Jaycee - D'oh, I was actually agreeing with your post at 3:01.  I'm blaming the weather here today (or it could be me trying to get three things done at once. . . ).  Sorry.

Troll from Melbourne is worn out so we welcome SIC back.  It's like the old "tag team" wrestling on  the black and white TV (and it seems that some would like u to return to those days.

2353

November 17. 2012 11:47 PM

Ad astra

KHTAGH
We're back from our granddaughter's concert to find it's your birthday.

Happy Happy Birthday KHTAGH, and many more of them.

Folks
I've got another busy day tomorrow - I'll try to get time in the morning to respond.

Ad astra

November 17. 2012 11:56 PM

DMW

jaycee @ 3:01 PM
Neither Hawke nor Keating had a majority in the Senate and nor did Howard until 2004 so all had to negotiate with potentially hostile adversaries.

The current govt has to negotiate with members of the lower house and with senators but that doesn't make the job twice as hard. Tricky, yes at times, but, as has been proven, still possible.

Howard?...I fart in his general direction!

That is your privilege. However, even Ms Gillard is in awe of Mr Howard's leadership qualities as she has often said. Even the most hardened anti LNP barrackers would have to admit that Howard's stance after Port Arthur was an example of strong leadership particularly in the face of opposition of many of his most ardent supporters.

It has been suggested that a Labor government would have been highly unlikely to have pulled off the gun control policy and the argument has some merit.

I suspect you misread or misunderstood the point I was making when I wrote:
Strong leadership prepared stare down the fear campaigns and do what is best for the nation as a whole? Difficult to see that happening when the government is only one vote of no confidence away from falling.  (emphasis added)

In the current circumstances it is difficult, but not impossible, to stare down and combat fear campaigns and the there have been some examples of it happening. More of it would do a lot of good for the cause.

I note that also @ 5:38 PM you castigate 2353 and myself for being so absolutely wrong  and then your query @ 5:49 PM wondering if you were looking down the right end of the telescope. Again your privilege to believe I am totally wrong but your arguments suggest that you have missed the point

Restating a quote from the Gittins' article:
The point is, it's not so much unhappy voters governments fear, it's their political opponents seeking to take advantage of the voters' unhappiness.

Just for half a moment put aside your 'allegiances' and look at as if you are a Martian landing in Canberra somewhere near the little house in the hill and you observe the politics being played out. Would you see that fear and loathing are the weapons of choice in the game of politics? Would you report back to base that optimum solutions are impossible because fear beats common sense? Would you report that the opponents of a government take advantage of the voters' worries and play on those fears?

Somewhere here I need to recall who said You have nothing to fear but fear itself  and in what circumstances they uttered those (or similar) words.

DMW

November 18. 2012 12:40 AM

DMW

Well spotted:

ABC Tech & Games ‏@ABCtech
From Whirlpool. Just look at the date... lines are now at "five minutes to midnight". Telstra will axe copper network http://is.gd/5ewfZq
Retweeted by Leroy

DMW

November 18. 2012 02:22 AM

Casablanca


So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself -- nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.

The reason that Tony Abbott's constant use of fear and pessimism is so egregious, so reckless, is that these famous words were uttered by Franklin D. Roosevelt in the depths of the Great Depression. Any student of history, economics, sociology and psychology has probably focussed on that speech and on the awful fear that led to a run on the banks.  

F.D.R.'s First Inaugural Speech: Nothing to fear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amNpxQANk0M

Nothing to Fear but Fear Itself
www.youtube.com/watch

The full text of FDR's First Inaugural Address delivered on Saturday, March 4, 1933 is at:

http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres49.html

Casablanca

November 18. 2012 08:07 AM

jaycee

DMW..Just quickly on the gun issue..If I recall, Port Authur was the last straw..there was Hoddle st. and I believe another one after that...there was not any mood for blocking the legislation. Forgetting the other incumbants, Gillard has another player they never in their wildest dreams had to deal with...social media! This medium works not only for society, but also against it..when some fool shouts in a darkened theatre..:"FIRE" you just know the panic that ensures..so with social media, but the "panic" is more widespread....must go..the toast...

jaycee

November 18. 2012 08:37 AM

jaycee

...and then there is the MSM. I cannot recall a time when the newspapers have been so coordinated against an incumbant Prime Minister...and then there is the fact that it is a woman..and then there is the fact that we have had the GFC., and global warming ,and some of the worst storms and flooding in living history...AND..to top it off...Chrissy Pyne!!!
And through it all, even the most adversarial witness must agree, Julia Gillard has lifted her party's rating up by its' boot-straps to be on an equal if not better footing for the next election...go on, DMW..admit it!

jaycee

November 18. 2012 10:26 AM

DMW

psyclaw,
our guitars gently weep in symphony over your families recent travails.

DMW

November 18. 2012 10:37 AM

DMW

Thanks Casablanca
I was fairly sure it was FDR but couldn't instantly recall and well, 'googling' it just didn't happen. Smile

The small amounts of grey matter that still work for me must have bought it to mind as there are some parallels to the current situation and some 'ammunition' that could be used.

Having now read FDR's speech again it causes me to wonder if as a society as we become 'better off' we are more susceptible to fear. Mostly it would be the fear of losing our gains I guess.

DMW

November 18. 2012 10:46 AM

Ad astra

Gorgeous Dunny
It's good to see you back.  The lies and misrepresentations that Abbott and Co. propagate very day must have an affect of the public psyche, but it appears to be wearing thin as consumer confidence is on the rise.  What astonishes me is that businessmen seem still to be subject to Abbott's gloom and doom.  I'm writing something about that now.

Ad astra

November 18. 2012 10:59 AM

Ad astra

Folks
I thought Insiders was pretty innocuous today.  If one can judge from Gerard Henderson's remarks, there will be a lot of defensiveness from those aligned with the Roman Catholic church.  Defensiveness is not a sensible strategy.  Let's hope the terms of reference allay fears that the Royal Commission will be a witch hunt only for Catholic priests and brothers.

I was hoping the S&G matter would not be raised again, but it was raised in the context of why is this still going on.  Of course Henderson thinks JG should offer a written rebuttal, but he's naive if he thinks that will stop News Limited, or for that matter the likes of Peter Hartcher.  Someone else will crawl out of the woodwork, or be enticed therefrom, and there will be 'more questions for her to answer', and the smear campaign thereby perpetuated.  I see Labor is returning the compliment with reference to Julie Bishop's days as a lawyer defending a company against asbestos claims.  Although such tactics are unsavoury, if it shuts her up, that would be  bonus.  But I don't expect it will.

I'll soon be out and about for the rest of the day.

Ad astra

November 18. 2012 11:09 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad and Everybody

Twitterverse for you:-

Bushfire Bill
Posted Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 9:01 am
The Press Gallery sits in the press gallery and judges the Labor government on the Coalition’s terms.

Stupidly, Labor plays up to it, trying (vainly) to impress them with facts, figures and half-cogent answers. It’s all water off a duck’s back. The answers are rarely replayed. Only the theatrically uttered questions get any real type of guernsey. It’s why Abbott persisted (and may continue to persist) with phoney electricity bills.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1474829

Bushfire Bill
Posted Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 7:50 pm
How during a four-year relationship with union official Bruce Wilson, for whom she also acted as his solicitor at Slater & Gordon in its work for the AWU, did she become caught up in this saga?
...
There is no evidence that Gillard had any knowledge of the frauds.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1474608

Bushfire Bill
Posted Saturday, November 17, 2012 at 8:02 pm
Oh, here they are…

* HAVE you ever received funds into your bank account from the association or any other account owned or controlled by anyone from the AWU? Have you ever made inquiries as to whether that occurred?

* Was the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs in Western Australia misled as to the true nature of the AWU Workplace Reform Association, given you later described it as a slush fund?
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1474619

Julie Bishop's time as a solicitor for asbestos miners is under the spotlight, Samantha Maiden
In the 1980s, working under her married name Julie Gillon, Bishop was deeply involved in some of Slater & Gordon's biggest asbestos cases.

Of course, solicitors don't choose their clients. But Stephen Jones thinks Labor should point out Bishop's role. "You can't judge anyone by their clients, I suppose. But she had some pretty dodgy ones in my view."
www.dailytelegraph.com.au/.../story-e6frezz0-1226518743163

What's in a name? Ask the Libs, Peter VanOnselen
www.dailytelegraph.com.au/.../story-e6frezz0-1226518720228

Andrew Elder‏
Congratulations @michellegrattan for discovering the internet

TrACeY‏
coincidence?Abbott's shallow new Internet policy & Grattan dutifully pushes it. Internet is parents' worst nightmare http://www.smh.com.au/opinion

PjN‏
PELL is very definitely a shocker of a human being. Pell's sheltered life no excuse for shocking response www.canberratimes.com.au/.../...0121116-29ht0.html

AshGhebranious‏
Coalition right wing media are all in sync. They see any attack on the catholic church is an attack on Tony Abbott's sex life

PjN‏@Pamela_
Coalition acting like kindergarden chn let out early.The Coalition's impressionist platform paints the wrong picture www.theage.com.au/.../...cture-20121117-29izq.html

JDK_au
So now Libs can't prove their AWU smear because the files are missing, how convenient.#boltreport

Insiders

Agnes Mack
#insiders Barrie asks about Slater & Gordon. Brendan says Julie Bishop/CSR, has questions 2 answer on procedural tactics in asbestos cases

Agnes Mack‏
#insiders Lenore doesn't think PM has questions to answer

Agnes Mack‏
#insiders David Marr says Abbott would be running the Slater & Gordon stuff if there was anything in it.... JB just dirt-can carrier

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

November 18. 2012 11:30 AM

DMW

jaycee @ 8:07 AM & 8:37 AM,
ok, if I must, I will mix some metaphors and admit that, having led the party to the edge of the 'polling cliff' and knocked on deaths door Ms Gillard has put the wind behind her sails and charted a different course.

That would pertinent, even possibly relevant, if one chose to take polling as an accurate forecasting mechanism of an event that is somewhere off on the horizon. It would offer succour to those who choose to believe the polls when they go in favour of their team and pillory them when they go against.

While Hawke and Keating did not have 'social media' or the 'fifth estate' to deal with Howard did toward the end of his tenure. There are those that treat the internet enabled communication tools as a threat which, if I read you correctly, you are suggesting and there those that treat it as an opportunity. I will leave it to others to tell us which side of the fence Labor and its' leaders sit on that.

Your other points re the MSM etc. are grist for the mill and have been discussed and debated ad nauseum here and elsewhere and we could rehash them until the cows come home and still achieve nothing of substance.

I am wondering if you actually read the Gittins article and are discussing this in the context of how Abbott and Hockey are endangering Australian business  and how business is endangering reform or if you are coming from the another point of view.

Your unstinting defence of the PM and Labor is admirable but as I have posited before at this site the PM is a big girl and can defend herself quite well and doesn't need us to do it to the point of boredom.

Are you willing to look at what was written as a critique of the system rather than a direct criticism of the PM which it was never intended to be?

DMW

November 18. 2012 11:36 AM

jaycee

There's something about the method of interviews on Insiders...Don't you just wish Cassidy would push the questioning just that little bit further when interviewing the right-wingers instead of going; :"Hrmmm"?
This morning on Sunday Extra, Green interviewing Albrechtson...I found myself shouting questions and answers of the bleedin' obvious that seemed to be deliberately avoided!
Do you think the same?

jaycee

November 18. 2012 11:40 AM

TalkTurkey

Greetings Comrade Swordsfolks of the Fighting 5th Estate!
Watching the Lopsiders - Let me tell you - We look GREAT!
You can see it all around - The MSM's run out of puff-
It is desperate - Irrelevant - A stuffed head with no stuff.

Aw gee someties I wonder whether it is worth writing in verse. One gets to be fairly deft with meter and rhyme and figures of speech but it's still pretty effortful. I have boasted that I could probably write a VW manual in verse but I sure don't want to. The good thing is though, people do like it and do read it, and it seems that it lasts very well - even from like the fifties, or any time . . . With an eerie ghostly present presence that prose doesn't carry. Someone had to think hard and care much to write in verse, eh Patricia & Truth Seeker.

But it's absolutely delicious to author it when it is good!


Anyway to get back to the point of the rhyme at the top -

I repeatedly predicted that Abortt would come unstuck on the Ides of September (Abbortt Remember the Ides of September!) By  that I thought the 15th, turned out to be the 13th which in addition to being the genuine traditional Ides of September also turned out to be The Political Sword's 4th Birthday!

It was a few days before that that Leigh Sales stabbed him in his evil heart (metaphor courtesy Religio-Fascism); . . . on the 12th I rang our host Ad astra and we agreed that the strike looked fatal already . . . but it was really the next day, TPS's Birthday, that it sank in to the population: when Lisa Wilkinson twisted the stiletto it was absolutely the end for him.    

. . . Challenged in November -

Do you reckon I'm on target?

I think his leadership is already thoroughly under challenge - but it's a challenge you have when you have no challenger! Nobody on the Liberal front bench has the ability to pull 60%+ support s/he would need to be sure of a win, but worse, they are all dismayed at the thought that then they would be responsible for framing policy - and funding it - Project Impossible! - and they know it! They quail at the thought. "Tony got us into this Sewer Swamp and he had better bloody know how to get us out of it!" They sure don't. So they are individually not going to be the one to step up to the certainty of defeat as a Party and their own destruction of themselves as LOTO. They are as paralysed as they are desperate.

DEAD MEAT COME DECEMBER! ?

Whether Abbortt is still LOTO or no, the stinking toxic toadfish that is the LNP is now dying a death of attrition, already beginning to rot from the head down as they say. Directionless, no way home, all their own work.

Is there a poll tonight/Monday night? Abbortt 24% Smile  ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm a bit better today. But J**** is coughing fit to frighten me now. Get you flu shots Folks, (not that I ever do! Frown )

  

TalkTurkey

November 18. 2012 11:53 AM

LadyInRed

Ad astra

Great article pointing out a serious problem, every time the opposition get their message of gloom and doom out a business somewhere will feel the effect. The punter who was going to buy that new handbag, that new appliance, or go out to dinner or spend a few days away on a holiday will pull their head in like a turtle and say 'no maybe not today I'll wait and see'. Thats' the danger that is real and present. I do believe that TAbbott will do anything, anything at all to gain the office of Prime Minister. I think he also believes he can fix up any consequences of his actions once he gains power. He is arrogant, and he is looking ever more crazy in his appearances on Sunrise.

I also believe the current tack of sending Julie Bishop out to attack the PM without any evidence and using the 'dishonest tag' is another mistake, showing Bishop also does not understand women. Women who have suffered abuse, witnessed abuse, suffered or witnessed unfairness simply becasue of gender do not appreciate when a woman leaps to the defence of the indefenciable. I think ths tactic will not produce the results they believe it will.

LadyInRed

November 18. 2012 11:56 AM

DMW

Good Morning (just) Ad,
Defensiveness is not a sensible strategy.

What an apposite observation.

Could it be that to be overly defensive is offensive?

DMW

November 18. 2012 12:32 PM

DMW

Canberra Insider ‏@CanberraInsider
Australia's - and the world's - first Labor Prime Minister Chris Watson died on this day in 1941 in Sydney. He was PM for 4 months in 1904.

DMW

November 18. 2012 12:51 PM

MWS

So PvO thinks that the Liberals should become the Conservative Party.  He is missing the whole point of naming.  Products are labelled by what they are not, or more accurately, what they are perceived as not being.  As Sir Humphrey said regarding the white paper "Open Government", you get the difficult bit out of the way in the title.

You can see how "naming" works by using cars as an example.  I drive a tiny car called a Suzuki Alto.  "Alto" means "higher" in Greek (although Mexican stop signs also read "ALTO").  Perhaps it's a very tall car that is permanently stopped?   Cars that never leave the tarmac are called "Explorer", "Forrester" and "Discovery".  I've even seen a large van called "Sprinter."

The "Liberal" tag allows the party to position themselves closer to the political centre than they would as the "Conservative Party."  And the votes of the political centre are what they need to win Government.  

MWS

November 18. 2012 12:58 PM

TalkTurkey

DMW said
[I] wonder if as a society as we become 'better off' we are more susceptible to fear. Mostly it would be the fear of losing our gains I guess.

Well . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giVGv_dnmdY

TalkTurkey

November 18. 2012 01:11 PM

Truth Seeker

Nice one TT.
Hope you and J get better soon.  Smile

Apparently it's Miglos birthday.

HBD Migs.

February must be a month for the left to be sexually active, as November seems to be a particularly productive month.

Cheers

Truth Seeker

November 18. 2012 01:13 PM

DMW

TT,
Smile

DMW

November 18. 2012 02:10 PM

Catching up.

The worse thing about their actions, they are using lies to talk down the economy.

As I say, Labor builds, opposition demolishes.  One cannot say anything else.

Catching up.

November 18. 2012 02:38 PM

LadyInRed

This is interesting reading on the NBN:

www.abc.net.au/.../3634499.htm

I would be worried if I were Turnbull having to defend the indefensible.

LadyInRed

November 18. 2012 03:03 PM

Gravel

Knee High

Happy Birthday for yesterday, hope you aren't too hung over.  Smile

Truth Seeker

Can us October babes be included with you November lot?  Smile

Lyn

Thanks for more great links, getting through some of the others, and they are all up to your usual great standard.

Gravel

November 18. 2012 04:45 PM

2353

DMW said
ok, if I must, I will mix some metaphors and admit that, having led the party to the edge of the 'polling cliff' and knocked on deaths door Ms Gillard has put the wind behind her sails and charted a different course.  Now thats impressive.

MWS said
You can see how "naming" works by using cars as an example.  I drive a tiny car called a Suzuki Alto.  "Alto" means "higher" in Greek (although Mexican stop signs also read "ALTO").  Perhaps it's a very tall car that is permanently stopped?   Cars that never leave the tarmac are called "Explorer", "Forrester" and "Discovery".  I've even seen a large van called "Sprinter." and the view out of my Renault Grand Scenic is no more grand that the view out of a "normal Scenic - or any other car for that matter.  The "Grand" somehow indicates 2 extra (fold away) seats!  In the absence of "The Raving Negativity Party" however, the COnservative Party is somewhat more truthful than "Liberal" for the current opposition.

2353

November 18. 2012 04:59 PM

Michael

Two dumped mediocrities, one deadbeat counterweight, and Heather Ridout.

I wonder if Judith Sloan realises she's only on Q&A's panel tomorrow night to make yesterday's men Rudd and Turnbull sound smart every time she opens her mouth?

As for Ms Ridout, expect her to witness events bemusedly.

PS Maybe not "dumped" yet, but another male mediocrity will be present, as he is every show.

PPS Watching Rudd and Turnbull trying to one-up each other as 'the smartest person in the room', while desperately avoiding even the hint of misogyny by not talking over the women alongside them will be rich comedy.

Michael

November 18. 2012 05:12 PM

jaycee

I agree, Michael...I don't think it has become obvious to many people yet how far politics has changed with the advent of social media. We now have a "new" type of political beast that has to change position so much faster and be able to shift ground that much quicker to avoid the "Twitter Bulletts"..indeed, the entire panel, incl' the host are yesterdays' people!

jaycee

November 18. 2012 05:13 PM

Truth Seeker

Gravel, October is a fine month, and I am sure that no-one will deny you the opportunity to be included if that is your desire, unfortunately my parents must have been inspired by the birthing exploits of their leftie contemporaries, as I must have been conceived sometime around the end of November as I was born at the end of July.

Timing was never their strong suit.   Smile

Cheers  Smile  Smile

Truth Seeker

November 18. 2012 05:48 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thank you for the links.  BB's comments highlight the futility of pursuing 'answers' in the S&G matter.  It is simply smear.  News Limited does not want answers. it wants to smear JG.  It's as simple as that.

LadyinRed
Thanks for your kind comments and the NBN link.

DMW
You may be right - over-defensivemess may amount to offensiveness.

Miglo
Happy Happy Birthday, and many more.

Ad astra

November 18. 2012 06:00 PM

jaycee

Oh dear!...Julie Bishop has got some "blow-back" from her sh*t-stirring...now SHE is under the spotlight about her time representing the "bad-guys" in the asbestos trials!....Well, what's the old adage?.."If you throw mud you will be caught with dirty hands"!....dirty hands indeed!
This'll be an interesting week for Julie B.

jaycee

November 18. 2012 06:06 PM

Jason

jaycee,
      Only the Senate sitting this week house of reps next week 26th November for the final time this year!

Jason

November 18. 2012 06:42 PM

jaycee

Yes, Jason..But I wasn't referring to the LNP. courthouse (parliament), I was referring to the general twitter and fifth estate!....sic 'em boy!!

jaycee

November 18. 2012 07:56 PM

42 long

Blue asbestos Julie does the muck raking while new image Tony stays clean. Does she realise how "used" she looks. Julie is very flexible and adapts well. Does not matter who the boss is or what HE wants. It will be done.

42 long

November 18. 2012 08:45 PM

Michael

Don't forget, Julie Bishop is "a good girl".

Abbott said so. And everyone knows how on the mark he is with women.

Michael

November 18. 2012 09:05 PM

Tom of Melbourne

’it wants to smear JG.  It's as simple as that.

I see.

1.  So when Our Prime Minister misrepresents the nature of the slush fund to a regulator in order to have it registered, this isn’t something the public should be interested in?

2.  When she tells parliament that there was no need to advise the police of the fraud because they were already investigating, and this is factually incorrect, this isn’t something the public should know about?

3.  When she was effectively dismissed from the last job she had outside politics for neglecting to protect the interests of her employer and her fee paying client, the media should ignore this?

4.  When she used the “girly” defense of being “young and naïve” but was actually mid 30s, legal partner, political activist, this shouldn’t be of interest?


Unfortunately for Our Prime Minister she has a well earned reputation for taking shortcuts with the truth.

Unless you or someone here specifically addresses the matters of legitimate public interest, you’ll be proven to be just making stuff up when you dismiss this issue as a “smear”

Tom of Melbourne

November 18. 2012 09:13 PM

Jason

ToM,
   Read my response to you last night!Man up and put your miserable name to your wild claims!
Put up or shut up ToM.

Jason

November 18. 2012 10:07 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I'm calling it a day.

Ad astra

November 18. 2012 10:30 PM

Wake Up


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Wake Up

November 18. 2012 11:02 PM

2353

^^^^^^^^^^^

How could I refuse Laughing

2353

November 19. 2012 07:24 AM

Lyn

TODAY’S LINKS

The Mystery Of The Disappearing News Limited Article, Dan Gulbery, The Daily Derp
Since the original was deleted we can only assume that the second article is the more accurate of the two. However that raises the question over why the two articles are so different in their portrayals of Bishop
thedailyderp.net/.../

Sub-tropical Fascism (Part 4): A State of fear, Dr George Venturini, Independent Australia
In Opposition, and in eleven years in Government, Howard was a deft handler of the Australian populace. He knew their fears and phobias and he was masterful in playing on them, deploying them, managing them, manoeuvring them. He did two things. He prodded their fears, and then he offered them reassurance. He inflamed and then soothed, supplied the anxiety and also the temporary solution.
www.independentaustralia.net/.../

You’re Unbelievable, Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery
You can find data anywhere to support your argument, just as long as you continue to cut out the bits of reality that spoil your argument. Abbott the champion of cervix cancer control? Oh Tony. You are not only unauthentic and devoid of culture, you are also unbelievable.
ashghebranious.wordpress.com/.../

Political Overload and Media Lies, Wayne Brooks, Curiosity and Challenge
Truth, ethics and morals in Journalism now pale into insignificance alongside the gods of sensationalism and media network cash flow don’t they? Sad that they either don’t realise or don’t care that Australia is screaming out for an old fashioned no nonsense hard-line news source, one that actually challenges the statements and issues,
wrb330.wordpress.com/.../

Keane: how News Ltd despairs at Gillard’s success, Bernard Keane, Crikey
it is merely a right-wing blog, a Catallaxy Files with more pictures and less intellectual rigour. Thus the increasingly desperate smear campaign against the Prime Minister, on the back of orders to journalists to always ask the Prime Minister about the AWU matter. It even follows her overseas: at a press conference in Bali last week, The Australian’s Jakarta correspondent actually appeared to apologise in advance for raising it — the conference transcript reads “my second question is — because I am from The Australian  — with Slater & Gordon (inaudible) why didn’t you contact (inaudible)?”
www.crikey.com.au/.../

Grace Collier’s tissue of assertions, Ben Eltham
don’t have a problem with right-of-centre commentators attacking the government of the day. But it would be nice if they could do with a bit of … how should I put this … evidence.Take the time to walk through this sorry example of intellectual cowardice for a couple of minutes and you’ll see what I mean.
beneltham.be/.../

2013 Election Betting: The Latest, Stephen Koukoulas, Market Economics
For the Liberal Party, Tony Abbott has gone from as short at $1.10 earlier this year to now be as wide as $1.50 (Sportingbet) to still be leader at the time of the next election. Malcomlm Turrnbull is as short as $2.30, although Luxbet are offering the widest odds at $3.05. Joe Hockey remains around $10.00.
http://www.marketeconomics.com.au/date/2012/11

Gillard and the AWU slush fund: sorting the smoke from the fire, Matthew Knott, Coffs Outlook
in the tens of thousands of words devoted to the story, no evidence that Gillard knew the fund was going to be used for Wilson and Blewitt’s personal gain has emerged. Or that Gillard was aware of the scam until before it became public. Or that she personally benefited from it. Or that she has lied about her actions
coffsoutlook.com/.../

As Gillard recovered, so can Abbott? Dr Kevin Bonham
Abbott's problem is that he has never been popular to begin with, and his unpopularity is increasingly about his personality and flaws, rather than policy. He had an underwhelming four month honeymoon period, a post-election bounce that lasted a solitary Newspoll, and from there on it's been as downhill all the way as a naturally bumpy event-influenced dataset is likely to get.
kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/.../...can-abbott.html

Labor Party obsessed with hatred for Tony Abbott, Ric Willmot’s Blog
Labor’s invitation is far more foreboding. It features Tony Abbott, portrayed as the evil Christmas Grinch, poised atop Parliament House, his pointy fingers holding a bright red Christmas bauble upon which is inscribed the word ”no”.
ricwillmot.com/.../

Huge doubts cast over Coalition's 'cheaper' NBN alternative, Michael Wyers
Joe Hockey recently told the ABC:"There is not one contractor in Australia that believes the Government is going to roll out its National Broadband Network for $32 billion. Expectations are as high as $60 billion, $70 billion or even $100 billion for the National Broadband Network
michaelwyres.com/.../article.php
                                                                    ‘Parochial’: Turnbull slams ‘NBN cheerleader’ media, Renai LeMay, Delimeter
the Member for Wentworth that he has still not responded to a series of fundamental questions about the Coalition’s rival policy which Delimiter put to him some three months ago. Maybe when he does, we can have a real debate and stop these complaints about a media which is more than willing to listen to anything Turnbull – with his sky-high public profile and electorate popularity – has to say.
delimiter.com.au/.../

Minister’s office replies to alleged ABC bias, Barry Tucker, Truth in the Media Source Centre
sent an email and numerous articles and graphs to the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, Senator Stephen Conroy, on October 26, 2012, related to allegations of perceived bias in ABC News and Current Affairs. Most of these articles are referred to elsewhere on this site. On November 16, 2012, I received a reply by post, most of which is quoted below
truthinmediaresourcecentre.wordpress.com/.../

Quotes by Tony Abbott, Skeptical Scienc
www.skepticalscience.com/skeptic_Tony_Abbott.htm

Today’s front Pages
Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 19 November 2012
www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm

Lyn

November 19. 2012 07:41 AM

Ad astra

LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra

November 19. 2012 08:10 AM

Gravel

Wake Up

That was brilliant.

Truth Seeker

No matter, we are all the good ones.

Gravel

November 19. 2012 08:37 AM

jaycee

Well...All I can say on the ABC. bias link, is that either Conroy's office is manned with thick-as-a-brick officers who cannot see the danger of media bias till it hits them in the nuts or they have no concern with right-wing commentry.
I sent an email to Conroy's office several years ago imploring them to lift their game in regards the ABC. bias and got the same sort of "form-letter" reply.
I say : If the head office is that THICK that it sees no problem with continued attack from right-wing media and being politically assulted in it's own backyard...then it needs shaking up with the rough-end of a Qld' Prime pineapple!!
Get real, Conroy!..Wakey, Wakey!

jaycee

November 19. 2012 08:50 AM

jaycee

As regards getting rid of the trolls, while it can create some problems by banning them, one perhaps can..though it would be rather mean..take their email address to a internet cafe, enter their email address as the sender and create an email contact with a enormous spam centre or some such other scurrilous organisations so that the trolls start receiving all this crappy spam and whatever!...but I would never be THAT mean..............................would I?

jaycee

November 19. 2012 09:20 AM

Michael

Paul Sheehan is so desperately attempting to smear Julia Gillard here:

www.smh.com.au/.../...to-polls-20121118-29k4v.html

that he actively lies about several Abbott comment and actionss well and truly on the public record, and then goes all hair-splitting on how Abbott used the phrase "die of shame" in Parliament by writing this: "No-one in Parliament ever said he [Gillard's father] did [die of shame]".

No, they didn't, but Abbott knew exactly what he was doing when he re-used the words "die of shame" very much "in Parliament".

He was trying to distress Julia Gillard in the most public forum she occupies, sitting in the Prime Minister's chair in the House of Representatives, with the clear hope that she would lose it - run from the chamber in tears, or go as low and personal as him in reply.

For his effort he received, clinically and factually, the most public and widely applauded shellacking of an Opposition Leader in contemporary times.

He tried emotional bludgeoning, he got back precise, damning appraisal. And cringed under it.

And now Paul Sheehan is trying to re-frame Abbott's embarrassment and reduction to clock-watching to something else. He fails.

This is shoddy journalism that a major media outlet (admittedly one in decline) should never allow published.

Shame on Sheehan, shame on Fairfax. There's definitely enough of it to go around within that narrow orbit.

Michael

November 19. 2012 09:35 AM

Sir Ian Crisp

As regards getting rid of the trolls, while it can create some problems by banning them, one perhaps can..though it would be rather mean..take their email address to a internet cafe, enter their email address as the sender and create an email contact with a enormous spam centre or some such other scurrilous organisations so that the trolls start receiving all this crappy spam and whatever!...but I would never be THAT mean..............................would I?

jaycee


In the absence of a warning from AA not to go down that path you should be aware that such action might cause a reaction. AA is constantly calling on the media to be responsible so it would not sit well if a TPS 'cowboy' acted irresponsibly.

Sir Ian Crisp

November 19. 2012 09:44 AM

jaycee

The ABC. is the only media outlet left with a semblance..that's : SEMBLANCE of credibility. Even tonight on Q&A. we see three right-wing commentators, an ego-centric host and one self-centred ALP. rep. (who wont be doing the PM. any favours..you can guarantee!!).
Now here's the topics in advance..1) Julia Gillard and the NSW. unions..2) Julia Gillard and the "slush fund"..3)The NBN and it's "uselessness" compared to a dixy-cup and a thread. 4) The Royal commission and why it took Julia Gillard sooooo loooong to come back from Bali to make the decision when she could have easily shoved Yhudhoyono out of the camera angle and grabbed the opp. 5) How good is that wonderful man; Tony Abbott!!?
If Conroy can't or wont do anything about ABC. bias, He will deserve to be watching the Turdball doing all the ribbon-cutting and the switch-throwing and speech-making on the NBN..: "Well, people of Australia will wake up today to a new world of broadband communication brought to you by a Liberal Govt' who handle these sort of things soooo much better than the opposition..."....You have the power, Conroy..: Use it or lose it!

jaycee

November 19. 2012 09:48 AM

Sir Ian Crisp

I wonder what would happen to the free flow of opinions and views at TPS if an angry dissentient voice asked an o/seas friend to hack TPS and make it unworkable. I'm sure no one would be THAT mean.

Sir Ian Crisp

November 19. 2012 10:08 AM

Jason

Sir Ian,
       Unless Aa gives out your email address (He's not that sort of person) who have nothing to fear but fear itself!

Jason

November 19. 2012 10:19 AM

jaycee

Ha. hahahahahahhaa!...Oh they're so tender at heart..really...one doesn't even need to bait the hook1

jaycee

November 19. 2012 10:28 AM

DMW

d.mick.weir@gmail.com

DMW

November 19. 2012 10:28 AM

jaycee

Hey, crispy!....who died and left you a "friend"?...Ha,ha!..and would he be the same computer nerd that feeds you all the stats' on the favourites that you keep doing your dosh on!?....Ha,ha,hahahahahahaha!
Put you next to that other troll and you got those two weird bloke characters in the new ABC. show..; "Problems"...Hahahahahaha!

jaycee

November 19. 2012 10:36 AM

BSA Bob

jaycee at 9.44
Yes. And the galling thing is that your prediction of Turnbull or someone's hogging the limelight & credit will certainly come true if his lot win. They'll take the credit for it all, only they can be trusted with this sort of complex policy, of course. And simultaneously, media interests will be hiving off the bits they can profit from while assuring us this is easily the best way to rescue the dire situation Labor's got us all into, just ask Tony about that.
Steve777 put up an excellent post on the current PB (#151, I just can't do links) lamenting that Abbott's Direct Action climate policy is never, ever critiqued. And it very probably won't be. And this goes to the big problem that's been evident for years now, that a media creating the perception of a country in terrible distress can just as easily create one of a country effortlessly managed by the all wise Coalition. Entirely through selective reporting. I doubt the costs of "Direct Action" or the Liberalised NBN will ever be reported.
My optimism of a week or three ago's largely evaporated as I see a shifting of gears in the media's support for Abbott. Those who recently lauded his aggression are now combining to admire his newfound general niceness. Always providing support.
And the mild criticism of a while back is disappearing.

BSA Bob

November 19. 2012 10:40 AM

jaycee

Excuse me fellow swordsters while I cut into the trolls before AA changes the article, then I can get it out of my system for a while...
Say; Do you know why crispy has the "Sir" in front?...Seems he changed his name by deed poll so's he could gild the lily as he applied to join some posh private club, but he got the wrong address and applied to a "working-man's club" and was immediately blackballed!...Hahahahaha!
And poor old Tom, when he went to get his sperm-count checked, they said not to worry about a sample in a container, they'd just take a swab from the palm of his hand!...Hahahahahaha!

jaycee

November 19. 2012 10:52 AM

Jason

jaycee,
      He's the Tory version of Sir Les Patterson! dull boring and humorless!

Jason

November 19. 2012 11:05 AM

Sir Ian Crisp

Sir Ian,
       Unless Aa gives out your email address (He's not that sort of person) who have nothing to fear but fear itself!

Jason


Drunk again JGuy?

It seems like not a day goes by where I don't get a question from someone that boils down to their email account having been hacked.

Someone, somewhere has gained access to their account and has started using it to send spam. Sometimes passwords are changed, sometimes not. Sometimes traces are left, sometimes not. Sometimes everything in the account is erased, both contacts and saved email, and sometimes not.
ask-leo.com/...ed_7_things_you_need_to_do_now.html


Leo says you're wrong JGuy.

Sir Ian Crisp

November 19. 2012 11:14 AM

Jason

Sir Ian,
       Yes drunk again you caught me out! However To even think I might send you an email,then you're drunker than me this morning!
I wouldn't give you the sweat off my "Bo@#ocks"

Jason

November 19. 2012 11:18 AM

jaycee

Yes, BSA Bob..I did see that post on PB. But I think the real reason the MSM do not critique Abbott's policies is that they are so BLOODY stupid, where would one start!? Take costings,for example...the implementation of his "direct-action", if funded wholly by the govt' would blow the budget completely..BUT..and here's the rub..if he forces anyone..and I MEAN ANYONE who receives welfare of any kind to "volunteer" their labour in whatever location he chooses. the cost (for the govt') would be reduced....So brace yourselves for "greening-by-groaning" with the LNP.

jaycee

November 19. 2012 11:27 AM

Jason

jaycee,
      Did you see the child care announcement this morning complete with "Margie" throwing in a few words of wisdom at the presser?

Jason

November 19. 2012 11:31 AM

Ad astra

Folks
I'll be out for a few hours.

Ad astra

November 19. 2012 11:32 AM

Lyn

Good Morning Ad and Everybody,

Note Laura Tingle's headline ????

Twitterverse for you:-  

Bushfire Bill
Posted Monday, November 19, 2012 at 10:52 am
Bishop in high dudgeon
In short, who’s to say a Liberal sympathiser didn’t steal the files?
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1475818

Abbott's dinner with big developer, LINDA SILMALIS, The Telegraph
TONY Abbott dined in the private home of millionaire developer Bob Winnel six days before the NSW government approved Mr Winnel's controversial housing estate. LINDA SILMALIS
It is understood the dinner was held in Mr Winnel's home in Yarralumla, with Mr Abbott the guest of honour.
Mr Abbott's office would not confirm if the leader was at the dinner, nor discuss its purpose.
www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-fndo317g-1226518794603

TheFinnigans
Abbott's net approval will always at record low under Labor - Nielsen minus 24% (36-60) and Newspoll: minus 36% (27-63)

Labor’s rising vote grinds to a halt, Laura Tingle
Labor’s steady primary vote was capped by the first improvement in the Coalition’s two-party ­preferred vote in months, albeit by only 1 percentage point to 53 per cent. Labor is on 47 per cent.

Labor’s vote comes despite virtually universal support for the Prime Minister’s move last week to call a royal commission into institutional responses to instances and allegations of child abuse.

A staggering 95 per cent of voters supported the move. Just 3 per cent opposed it.
www.afr.com/.../labor_rising_vote_grinds_to_halt_EUk9TMW1tppCCgNqGSVYGO

Don't adjust your sets, it's just normal, Peter Hartcher
AUSTRALIAN politics appears to have achieved a "new normal".
While it's too soon to be definitive, today's poll does suggest that the Gillard government's recovery of the past six months has run its course
www.smh.com.au/.../...t-normal-20121118-29k9q.html

ALP approach to Bishop ‘troubling', November 19, 20129:50AM
A FEDERAL Labor backbencher has warned both sides of politics against throwing around allegations against individual MPs
www.heraldsun.com.au/.../story-e6frf7kf-1226519378920

grace pettigrew‏
How can you run a smear campaign when the files are missing?

Missing files add to opposition ire, Richard Baker
THE federal opposition has called for an urgent investigation after the disappearance of more documents at the centre of the Australian Workers Union slush fund scandal, including key Federal Court files.
www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0121118-29kat.html

Gillard has Howard's view on juggling US and China, Phillip Coorey
Australia had a strong and decades-old defence alliance, she said. ''We didn't sneak up on anybody with this defence alliance.'' At the same time, ''we are engaged with China at every level''.

Gillard was echoing what Howard had said for years. That in the region, Australia could walk and chew gum at the same time.
www.nationaltimes.com.au/.../...0121118-29k4u.html

Labor turns the tables on Bishop, Michelle Grattan
THE government has gone on the front foot against what it describes as the ''smearing'' of Julia Gillard, with a counter-smear against Deputy Opposition Leader Julie Bishop.
www.canberratimes.com.au/.../...0121118-29kar.html

The ticking time bomb of power, Paul Dally
And Abbott? Well, it's a big final sitting week for him, too. At the end of that week it will be exactly three years since he took over as Opposition Leader. Tick, tick, tick.
www.smh.com.au/.../...of-power-20121117-29iqn.html

Disappearing documents looks dodgy, Coorey Bernardi
http://audioboo.fm/boos/1066243

Tony Abbott - spreading the joy of his laughter. Video
how totally immature! and he wants to lead our country? Grow up Abbott and take a look at the 2.1 million views Julia has hads far with "That Man" speech
www.youtube.com/watch

Werner & Ursula‏
@BowlerBarrister @taodehaas Abbott presser reveals he has no policies. Not even for child care, even with Margie's help! LNP fail

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

November 19. 2012 11:38 AM

Truth Seeker

Policies.....  What policies?

Nothing to see here.

Truth Seeker

November 19. 2012 11:40 AM

Lyn

Hi Ad

Another one from Bushfire Bill:

Interesting theory I think and a possibility too:

Bushfire Bill
Posted Monday, November 19, 2012 at 10:57 am
Please note that all state governments associated with “missing files” are Liberal ones.

If Gillard has done nothing then it’s far better to make sure the files proving she did nothing never see the light of day, and then to construct a “cover-up” around them.

blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1475825

And why are they doing this now and not during the last election?
Outflanked by Gillard consistently for the past year, Coalition strategists remain confused by her electoral appeal.

The danger for them is that any further bungled attempts to bring her down will backfire and boost her standing among voters, not diminish it.
blogs.crikey.com.au/.../#comment-1475844

SmileSmileSmileSmile

Lyn

November 19. 2012 12:18 PM

42 long

  Margie might be enthustiastically aiding hubby so they can repay the big refinancing of their house.
   The expected salary increase when Tony inherits the prime mimistership by virtue of the unloseable election, may not materialise, nor the LOTO position  be guaranteed. Ouch!!
   Might be an exercise in risk management. Something Tony is abyssimally bad at.  NEW NICE Tony and action Abbott, Margie. Will it work? Only if we are the cretins were are taken for.

42 long

November 19. 2012 12:26 PM

Truth Seeker

Hey swordsters,I do hope that all this talk about the Abbotts imminent demise is somewhat premature, as I have just finished my latest poem on "The Abbotts Christmas Do", which I was intending to post in early December, but may now have to rethink my timing as it is a bit of an epic (in size) and do not want to re-write, or write another.

Oh the humanity!

May have to post it on Ads next thread, just to be on the safe side, and give me time to write a sequal if required.

Cheers   Smile  Smile  

Truth Seeker

November 19. 2012 01:36 PM

KHTAGH

Miglo
  
  ♫ Happy birthday Miglo! ♬

  Back at you, sorry for being a day late, was held up yesterday.

KHTAGH

November 19. 2012 01:39 PM

42 long

Didn't know they had bushrangers in Tassie. KHTAGH

42 long

November 19. 2012 01:54 PM

42 long

Don't worry Truth Seeker, the LNP are not quick at working things out. They don't listen to anyone but the glorious leader, and the deal is to do his bidding and look disciplined. Don't mistake Hockey and the other financial experts getting their lines mixed up as a sort of allowance of  a variance of opinion. It's just a straight out stuff-up, pure and simple.

42 long

November 19. 2012 02:33 PM

DMW

Accepting small promises
Marketing is about making promises and then keeping them. The marketer comes to us and makes a promise. If we accept the promise, a sale is made.

If we seduce ourselves into accepting small promises, we let everyone down.

The small promises of a feature added or a price reduced cheapen us and the marketer who would have us flock to him.

The big promises of transparency and care, of design and passion, of commitment and stewardship--we ought to be demanding more of this.

We get what we settle for.

sethgodin.typepad.com/.../...g-small-promises.html

DMW

November 19. 2012 03:20 PM

2353

An interesting (USA) tale about the demise of a "institution" snack food - and the media surrounding it.

www.newyorker.com/.../who-killed-the-twinkie.html

2353

November 19. 2012 03:50 PM

Ad astra

Hi Lyn
Thanks for the Twitterverse, always interesting.  Re the headline to Laura Tingle's article, I bet that was a sub-editor's.  Remember, Michael Stutchbury is the editor of AFR

Ad astra

November 19. 2012 04:06 PM

DMW

jaycee
yesterday @ 11:30 AM I wrote:
... having led the party to the edge of the 'polling cliff' and knocked on deaths door Ms Gillard has put the wind behind her sails and charted a different course.

Given the latest numbers dare I vary it to ... charted a course into still waters ?

Of course we could use the let out clause that it is only one poll and that the election is twelve months away and there is no way that this one poll could be an accurate predictor.

We could go to the 'trend lines' however they seem to be suggesting a 'flatlining' as well.

There is something of a silver lining in the storm clouds on the horizon though. Ms Gillard is holding steady with a net satisfaction rating of minus one and Mr Abbott's net satisfaction is still declining to another low point of minus 24.

It is all very interesting and frustrating all at the same time.

DMW

November 19. 2012 04:18 PM

Marilyn

In the senate a while back it was revealed that Bowen wants another $1.6 BILLION to jail refugees here and in the Pacific in spite of it all being deadly and illegal.

How many homes for the homeless and aborigines, how much of an increase for poor Aussies and so on could be paid for out of this ridiculous waste of money so Bowen can win a fight with his repulsive counterpart Scott Morrison?

And the morons in the media keep prattling about some stupid old union deal.

Marilyn

November 19. 2012 04:22 PM

BSA Bob

jaycee
Yes, re Direct Action, I think there'll be a lot of gun-in-the-ribs "community participation".

Heard on ABC radio about Abbott's "policy to have a policy" on childcare. What got my goat the most was hearing "with his wife Margie by his side" in simpering tones from the announcer. My taxes pay for this.

BSA Bob

November 19. 2012 04:28 PM

Jason

Marilyn,
       Under Australian law it's legal! Now if you think it isn't get off your dole bludging arse find a QC and have the high court rule on it!
If not STFU!

Jason

November 19. 2012 05:01 PM

Marilyn

Jason, it is not legal under Australian law, why   do you think it is good to waste so much money to prove nothing but torture?

You have nothing useful to say you worthless coward so get stuffed.

And I am not on the dole moron.

Marilyn

November 19. 2012 05:18 PM

Jason

Marilyn,
       The Pacific soulution as it now stands was passed by both houses of Parliament! It's Law you clapped out old pole dancer!
UN conventions aren't the law of our land our parliament makes them and the refugee people when they see holes in legislation rush off to the High court they haven't this time!

Keep off the drink.

Jason

November 19. 2012 06:28 PM

Patriciawa

What happened to that barring of a certain person?  TPS has been so much more itself recently.   Are we going to have to start scrolling around yet another unwelcome visitor again?    By the way I thought the advice about ignoring our trolls from Wake Up was spot on.  

Patriciawa

November 19. 2012 07:01 PM

2353

Marilyn & Jason - get a room somewhere please.  Name calling does no one any good.

2353

November 19. 2012 07:01 PM

42 long

  I feel TPS is a facility someone provides at some cost for the users. Those who wish to insult and abuse the "host" seem to me like the sort of visitors you would not invite back to any other social situation. I have made it known that if someone feels so bad about the views of the bulk of the persons here and finds the promoter abhorent the easiest thing is to go away and frequent some other place they find more acceptable.  They don't contribute. They come here to make it a place WE like less, and to attack constantly  the ship and those who sail in her in the monotonously  negative way we are used to. If I did it I would expect to be banned. because Ad As has good manners and a sense of fair play it turns out to be a disadvantage. Good people get used.

42 long

November 19. 2012 07:16 PM

Ad astra

Folks
I have just now posted: Do Australian businessmen really believe Tony Abbott?.  Enjoy.

www.thepoliticalsword.com/.../...-Tony-Abbott.aspx

Ad astra

November 19. 2012 07:28 PM

Jason

42 long,
       Thanks!

Jason

November 19. 2012 08:28 PM

Tom of Melbourne

It’s the hilarity that keeps me coming back. It is just so entertaining!

Where else could anyone find apolitical blog that allegedly puts politicians and commentators to the verbal sword… but despite the lofty, self important proclamation spends the entire space looking at a single political party, and the media with absolutely no scrutiny of the government!

Then they sook about getting (maybe) 1 in 20 comments that provide a little challenge.


There is nowhere quite as blinkered as TPS!

Tom of Melbourne

November 19. 2012 08:36 PM

Jason

ToM,
    no public servants here for you to send nasty emails to!

Jason

November 19. 2012 08:46 PM

Tom of Melbourne

Jason, you’ll have to stop posting riddles, I have no idea what you’re on about.

But you seem to be one of the leading sooks here.

Tom of Melbourne

November 19. 2012 09:53 PM

Jason

ToM,
   Yes I'm one of the leading sooks,like Sir Ian you've caught me out!
You plan to do ?

Jason

Comments are closed