Focus on political ideology: Joseph E Stiglitz

This is the second in the end-of-year series on The Political Sword on political ideology. It is based on a Stiglitz’s book: The Price of Inequality

Stiglitz’ book was published in mid 2012 in New York by W. W. Norton & Company, Inc., and in London by Allen Lane, part of the Penguin Group.

Stiglitz is a Nobel laureate in economics, is currently a professor at Columbia University in the Department of Economics and the School of International and Public Affairs, and has taught at Stanford, Yale, Princeton, and Oxford. He was chair of President Bill Clinton’s Council of Economic Advisers, and was Senior Vice President and Chief Economist of the World Bank. He has pioneered theories in the fields of economic information, taxation, development, trade, and technical change.

The summary that follows is provided by Project Syndicate, an international not-for-profit newspaper syndicate and association of newspapers that distributes commentaries and analysis.

”America likes to think of itself as a land of opportunity, and others view it in much the same light. But, while we can all think of examples of Americans who rose to the top on their own, what really matters are the statistics: to what extent do an individual’s life chances depend on the income and education of his or her parents?

“Nowadays, these numbers show that the American dream is a myth. There is less equality of opportunity in the United States today than there is in Europe – or, indeed, in any advanced industrial country for which there are data.

“This is one of the reasons that America has the highest level of inequality of any of the advanced countries – and its gap with the rest has been widening. In the “recovery” of 2009-2010, the top 1% of US income earners captured 93% of the income growth. Other inequality indicators – like wealth, health, and life expectancy – are as bad or even worse. The clear trend is one of concentration of income and wealth at the top, the hollowing out of the middle, and increasing poverty at the bottom.

“It would be one thing if the high incomes of those at the top were the result of greater contributions to society, but the Great Recession showed otherwise: even bankers who had led the global economy, as well as their own firms, to the brink of ruin, received outsize bonuses.

“A closer look at those at the top reveals a disproportionate role for rent-seeking: some have obtained their wealth by exercising monopoly power; others are CEOs who have taken advantage of deficiencies in corporate governance to extract for themselves an excessive share of corporate earnings; and still others have used political connections to benefit from government munificence – either excessively high prices for what the government buys (drugs), or excessively low prices for what the government sells (mineral rights).

“Likewise, part of the wealth of those in finance comes from exploiting the poor, through predatory lending and abusive credit-card practices. Those at the top, in such cases, are enriched at the direct expense of those at the bottom.

“It might not be so bad if there were even a grain of truth to trickle-down economics – the quaint notion that everyone benefits from enriching those at the top. But most Americans today are worse off – with lower real (inflation-adjusted) incomes – than they were in 1997, a decade and a half ago. All of the benefits of growth have gone to the top.

“Defenders of America’s inequality argue that the poor and those in the middle shouldn’t complain. While they may be getting a smaller share of the pie than they did in the past, the pie is growing so much, thanks to the contributions of the rich and superrich, that the size of their slice is actually larger. The evidence, again, flatly contradicts this. Indeed, America grew far faster in the decades after World War II, when it was growing together, than it has since 1980, when it began growing apart.

“This shouldn’t come as a surprise, once one understands the sources of inequality. Rent-seeking distorts the economy. Market forces, of course, play a role, too, but markets are shaped by politics; and, in America, with its quasi-corrupt system of campaign finance and its revolving doors between government and industry, politics is shaped by money.

“For example, a bankruptcy law that privileges derivatives over all else, but does not allow the discharge of student debt, no matter how inadequate the education provided, enriches bankers and impoverishes many at the bottom. In a country where money trumps democracy, such legislation has become predictably frequent.

“But growing inequality is not inevitable. There are market economies that are doing better, both in terms of both GDP growth and rising living standards for most citizens. Some are even reducing inequalities.

“America is paying a high price for continuing in the opposite direction. Inequality leads to lower growth and less efficiency. Lack of opportunity means that its most valuable asset – its people – is not being fully used. Many at the bottom, or even in the middle, are not living up to their potential, because the rich, needing few public services and worried that a strong government might redistribute income, use their political influence to cut taxes and curtail government spending. This leads to underinvestment in infrastructure, education, and technology, impeding the engines of growth.

“The Great Recession has exacerbated inequality, with cutbacks in basic social expenditures and with high unemployment putting downward pressure on wages. Moreover, the United Nations Commission of Experts on Reforms of the International Monetary and Financial System, investigating the causes of the Great Recession, and the International Monetary Fund have both warned that inequality leads to economic instability.

“But, most importantly, America’s inequality is undermining its values and identity. With inequality reaching such extremes, it is not surprising that its effects are manifest in every public decision, from the conduct of monetary policy to budgetary allocations. America has become a country not “with justice for all,” but rather with favouritism for the rich and justice for those who can afford it – so evident in the foreclosure crisis, in which the big banks believed that they were too big not only to fail, but also to be held accountable.

“America can no longer regard itself as the land of opportunity that it once was. But it does not have to be this way: it is not too late for the American dream to be restored.”


Stiglitz’s book is in harmony with the last piece: The ideology of politics: Ross Gittins in which Gittins comments on Professor Jeffrey Sachs’ book: The Price of Civilisation.

Using the US as the context, Stiglitz talk of matters we have discussed here before: the inequality that gives the top earners almost all of the income growth thereby widening the gap between the very rich and the rest, the growing role of rent seekers, the fallacy of ‘trickle down economics’. Stiglitz examines particularly the social effects of inequality – slowing growth, rising unemployment, downward pressure on wages, underinvestment in infrastructure, education and technology, adverse effects on the health of the middle and lower classes, and social discord.

It’s now over to you, readers of The Political Sword.

What do you think?


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13/12/2012Folks Although the situation in Australia is not as gross as that in the US as described by Stiglitz, we do have a similar problem here on a growing scale. Income equality exists and is worsening. Executives rake off massive salaries while many in the poorer classes are feeling the stress of the rising cost of living that is not matched by wage increases. We have the employer class clamoring for more ‘flexibility’, which is code for being able to mould employees to their needs and requirements at the expense of the workers and their families. They would dearly love the WorkChoices provisions back, but of course with another name. Gina Rinehart speaks of how little overseas miners will work for - $2 a day! We have seen our rent-seekers in full flight – the Minerals Council’s special pleading emasculated the MMRT. Recall the carbon tax rent-seekers and the electoral damage they inflicted on the Government, only now recovering as the people realize they were conned. This was dealt with in August in [i]The scourge of the rent-seekers[/i]. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2012/08/09/The-scourge-of-the-rent-seekers.aspx We have those who still believe in trickle-down economics. Certainly the Republicans, and particularly the Tea Party, subscribe to that now-debunked economic theory which insists that if you give advantages to the wealthy – the wealth creators who employ people – through concessions, tax breaks and lower taxes, some of the wealth and employment they generate will trickle down to the masses at the bottom of the pile. We see this contemporaneously as the conservatives still fight against President Obama’s attempt to ask the wealthy to pay more tax. Stiglitz shows convincingly that the theory is a dud and in fact it seems more the case that benefits trickle upwards to the wealthy elite. This economic theory, which our own John Quiggin called a ‘zombie’ in his book: [i]Zombie Economics - How dead ideas still walk among us[/i], (which was reviewed in April in [i]Joe Hockey should read John Quiggin’s 'Zombie Economics'[/i]), was thoroughly debunked by him, but as he pointed out, it was ‘un-dead’ and still had its adherents, those to whom it is an advantage to promote support for the wealthy at the expense of the poor. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2011/04/11/Joe-Hockey-should-read-John-Quiggin’s-Zombie-Economics.aspx We can see already that the attitude of Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey, and indeed the entire Coalition, is to support big business – the miners – by repealing the carbon and minerals taxes, at the expense of those who stand to benefit from these taxes. The big-end-of-town always gets preference from them. We can be confident that should we be unfortunate enough to get an Abbott government that will become as obvious as it is becoming day after day in Queensland under the Newman Government. If you don’t believe me, read Ian McAuley’s [i]The Economic Policy Abbott Can't Grasp[/i] in [i]New Matilda[/i] on 3 December. I’m sure you would enjoy the satirical second half. http://newmatilda.com/2012/12/03/party-libs-could-be The Stiglitz book should be taken as a warning of what awaits us here if the very same types who have almost destroyed the US economy to feather their own nests, get the chance to do the same here – look at Campbell Newman before and after election! Stiglitz’ book is well worth a read.

Casablanca

13/12/2012Ad, I look forward to reading your latest piece - I know that it will be another well considered, well written observation and thought provoking. The article from June 2012, linked to below, contains some prescient comments by Peter Slipper's first wife. [b]Abbott let loose the dogs, says Slipper's ex-wife [/b] June 3, 2012. Cosima Marriner [b]''Peter stood between Tony Abbott and The Lodge; it was obvious he was fair game. Tony Abbott released the dogs; they were going to come for him, come what may.''[/b] Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-let-loose-the-dogs-says-slippers-exwife-20120602-1zoke.html#ixzz2Eub9jZyY

ausdavo

13/12/2012Stiglitz really shows us how it is, and worse still, how it's going to be. As a nearly 70 yo newsagency owner in Queensland, I can't retire despite worsening health! The banks simply refuse to lend money to buyers of "small" businesses. Obviously, the banks know where the future lies for small business. My remaining super will evaporate over the next few years no matter what I do. Any small business owner who honestly thinks it all through knows the LNP only represent BIG business (but most cling to old thinking). Newman is busy proving it in Queensland! Abbott will be 5 times worse because he will be able to legislate federally to give the BIG end of town a free ride. The less well off members of society will have less to spend and that means the end for struggling small businesses all over the country. As the biggest employers per $1 of turnover, small business will "shed" staff far quicker than big business does. That will simply exacerbate the worsening situation. Pulling Australian workers wages down to Asian levels is what Abbott, his newspaper mates and Big business are all about. Start digging your gardens folks and plant your fruit and veggies. The return to 19th century living standards will be upon us quicker than you may realise. (Happy Christmas Ad Astra from David)

MWS

13/12/2012Tim Dunlop: [quote]Would Julia Gillard still be Prime Minister if there was no such thing as social media? So when the SMH led with a story by Mark Baker on the Thursday of the final sitting week of parliament, after two days of the Opposition grilling the PM during Question Time, and claimed that "new" evidence showed the PM had contradicted herself, it seemed like the coup de grace had been delivered, that she had been caught out and that maybe her time was up. But it took those on Twitter about two seconds to start questioning the article and about two minutes to demolish it. Users started pointing out that the central, damning claim of the piece - that Gillard had told the WA authority that the entity she set up was not a union - was rather less damning than the article suggested given the fact that the entity was, indeed, not a union. From that point on, I'd suggest, the story went flat. Social media had reset the narrative, changing it from the final episode of The Killing, where the criminal is finally revealed, into the last scene of Waiting for Godot, where the smoking gun, like Godot, did not show up. Interestingly, this social-media push back was not a particularly partisan thing, not in the traditional tribal sense. The rallying around was not just in support of the PM, but a push back against the media's ownership of the story, of the way they presented it. In other words, it was as much in defence of the audience as it was of Gillard, a point missed by those in the media who accuse social media of being a leftwing echo chamber. And maybe it was the Coalition's failure to grasp the significance of social media - to understand that it is the new front page of Australian politics - that led them to overreach.[/quote] http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4425720.html BTW, I've joined Twitter (but haven't actually tweeted, just following) @Monicas_WS

Casablanca

13/12/20122353, You were right in saying that [quote]the Drum wrap-up of the Ashby saga was worth reading for the Shanahan quote towards the bottom[/quote] and that [quote]Even Dennis can't find much to hold onto here.[/quote] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-12/ashby-slipper-wrap/4424082 Well here is the whole article by Shanahan who must have mis-placed his Peta Credlin Speaking Points for that day. Mal Brough the real victim of Peter Slipper judgment Dennis Shanahan, Political Editor The Australian. December 12, 2012 3:52PM FORMER Howard government minister and putative MP for Fisher, Mal Brough, is the latest political casualty in the ongoing scandals surrounding Peter Slipper. Justice Steven Rares of the Federal Court has slammed shut James Ashby's claims for sexual harassment against Slipper when he was the speaker of the House of Representatives and opened a new wound in the politics surrounding the contentious former Liberal-National Queensland MP. Slipper's resignation as speaker was irrespective and independent of the outcome of the court case, although it was linked to the infamous sexist and salacious texts submitted as evidence to the court. Slipper's history has previously damaged the Liberals, his own standing, and then undermined Julia Gillard's political judgment in appointing him as speaker. Today's judgment has found Ashby and his lawyers, Harmers Workplace Lawyers, produced “scandalous” evidence in apparent breach of professional standards to damage Slipper publicly as part of a political conspiracy. The judge has thrown out the claims not because there was no evidence of sexual harassment but that the court application was “an abuse of process” which would have brought the justice system into disrepute if it continued. But the real political victim is now Brough, who stands accused of working with Ashby and co-worker Karen Doane in an underhanded political scheme based on disloyalty, political preferment, duplicity, and lies - all aimed at bringing down Slipper and promoting Brough. After sustaining months of allegations about the AWU slush fund scandal the Labor government is keen to hit back and threaten Brough and by extension Tony Abbott and Christopher Pyne with an inquiry of their own into a political scandal. Of course, the government does not come out of the judgment without its own questions to answer: the judge said there was evidence of sexual harassment but upheld Slipper's claims for an abuse of process, which the commonwealth spent $750,000 working on and then withdrawing after paying Ashby $50,000 in compensation. The judge describes the payout given when Attorney-General Nicola Roxon was trying to kill off all the legal cases against Slipper as more than Ashby could have expected even if he had succeeded against Slipper and the commonwealth. Brough's alacrity to deal with Ashby and act in “combination” with Slipper's betrayers may prove politically fatal, with or without a government inquiry. The saga of Slipper just goes on. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/mal-brough-the-real-victim-of-peter-slipper-judgment/story-fn59niix-1226535477024 re-CAPTCHA: uprooted e[t]hicals

KHTAGH

13/12/2012AA I don't know who it was but I caught the end of a good discussion on I think it was Big Idea on ABC 24 the other day, there was an economist from the US, he stated that when the GFC happened that they did the wrong thing by backing the banks. He stated that had they given the money to the people & paying off their mortgages they would have boosted the through put of money in the society & by the trickle up affect take some pressure off the banks. I would have thought that was a brilliant idea. We would have heard the Republicans screaming that's socialism from here. If someone else saw it & can fill in who it was & where Id be happy.

KHTAGH

13/12/2012ausdavo [i] The banks simply refuse to lend money to buyers of "small" businesses.[/i] Our local post office has been up for sale for around 2 yrs, its a little gold mine all the agencies that go with it etc. Only $400,000. I asked the owner the other day, many nibbles? her answer was yes plenty, but! the banks won't lend anyone any money.

Miglo

13/12/2012I had pleasure in posting Politically Speaking, Australia Kicks America’s Ass, originally written for vegasjessie.com by an Australian, Derek Wood of Sydney. Vegasjessie.com is an American blog site that promotes the same issues as Café Whispers and TPS, albeit at a local level. A link to vegasjessie can be located under Global Sites below the Blogroll on CW. It is an informative site for those interested in the grass roots machinations of the American way of life. In particular, the American passion for those 'taboo' subjects, politics and religion are articulately expressed by blogmaster Jessie. I found Politically Speaking, Australia Kicks America’s Ass a very interesting read. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/11833/

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13/12/2012Casablanca Thank you for the piece featuring Peter Slipper’s first wife. An interesting perspective! Thanks too for the full Shanahan article; he sounded nonplussed. ausdavo Thank you for your comment and your greetings, which I reciprocate. It is disheartening for you to be facing the position you do in your news agency business. I believe you are right. Despite his rhetoric, Abbott will be no supporter of small business. He is for the big end of town – the miners, the banks, the big outfits, who give him financial support for his election campaign. MWS That was a great article by Tim Dunlop on how social media is pulling politicians into line. Its power is apparent and increasing. KHTAGH That sounds like an interesting economic theory. I wonder what Joseph Stiglitz would say about it? Miglo Thanks for the link to vegasjessie.com. Interesting reading!

Michael

13/12/2012Bad Abbott. On past performances, since Shouldabeen is flying to the UK (at whose expense?), just how much will he talk UP the Australian economy 'over there' until he returns to continue talking it down at home? The man deserves his own triple AAA rating, sibilant as a snake, ending after all those A's in "shole". Guess that's a silent "H".

TalkTurkey

13/12/2012Christine H I enjoyed reading your post, if it is your first contribution to Ad astra's blogsite [i]The Political Sword[/i] let me assure you you are very welcome, do keep your thoughts coming. As your post came right near the end of the last thread, I have taken the liberty of reposting it here in its entirety, for others to get to know you. Grattan's article was one of the stupidest I've ever read. She just don't get it do she, and she can't let go of her biases, and she is not clever enough to make a credible alternative universe, so it comes out like the proverbial madwoman's shit. Which indeed! :) December 13. 2012 03:20 PM Thanks Jason for sharing the brilliant commentary of Bushfire Bill of this whole sorry saga. BB never disappoints unlike the disgraceful opinon piece by Michelle Grattan both yesterday and today in The Age, and believe me that is not an accurate reflection of my opinion of her scribblings. Apparently her assessment is that whilst James Ashby and his Liberal/National backers have scored a loss in the Federal Court they have somehow been triumphant in the court of public opinion. Lets take a minute to think about that....Ashby can collude with the political enemies of Mr Slipper, fabricate evidence, disclose confidential information to third parties, run a smear campaigin wall to wall in the media that results in Mr Slipper suffering personally, professionally and econmically but that is okay because the ends justify the means? The tactic was to 'get' Slipper no matter that it was based on bull excrement and not evidence or verifiable facts, the tactic worked, Slipper is no longer Speaker, score a win to the LNP. What about morality and decency and the outrageous injustce suffered by Mr Slipper and the very blatant attempt, again, by the LNP to bring down an elected government. Unbelievable. I have no opinion one way or the other about Mr Slipper except that he was by all accounts a very good Speaker otherwise don't know the bloke, but I can see when someone has been well and truly done over by a bunch of very grubby individuals. You know it is hard not to descend into the depths of deep cynicism about the state of politics in this country. Why would any half way decent person with ability and ethics put themselves forward for public office in this county? Apart from the grievous injustice to Mr Slipper this is the implication of the destructive tactics employed by the Opposition in this hung parliament, that it has the potential to discourage younger, talented people from participating in our democracy. I hope that this is not the case. Christine H

MWS

14/12/2012I urge TPSers to read Richard Ackland's piece in the SMH. Sorry, can't link from my tablet.

Casablanca

14/12/2012MWS and TPSers here is the article by Richard Ackland. It is short but full of punch and end-to-end quotable quotes. It is a rare thing, an opinion piece redolent with facts and balance. (The bolding of text is mine). [b]Ashby case a shocking spectacle[/b] December 14, 2012 Opinion. Richard Ackland. Sydney Morning Herald columnist Justice Steven Rares's judgment on Wednesday in the Federal Court made for gripping reading. The interplay of newspaper reptiles, the unlovely Speaker of the House of Representatives, his duplicitous staffers, desperate Liberals grasping for power, a no-win, no-fee flack merchant and over-the-top lawyering - was all too much enjoyment for one day. As has now been widely known, the core finding of the judge was the manner in which the sexual harassment proceedings were brought by James Ashby against Peter Slipper were an abuse of the court's process. The judge explained the inclusion of allegations about misuse of Cabcharge dockets and a previous sexual relationship between Slipper and a young member of his staff, were designed to injure the parliamentarian for no legitimate forensic purpose. They were irrelevant and scandalous, and were designed to maximise and inflame the media coverage. Those superfluous flourishes were withdrawn when the statement of claim was filed a month after the originating application. The real purpose of this litigation was to fire-up an attack not just on Slipper but on the government, and to seek to bring about its downfall. The sexual harassment allegation had the consistency of snowflakes. Throughout their smut-infused game of footsies, Ashby flirted with Slipper and he responded with the alluring qualities for which he is justly infamous. Instinctively, there is a need for a good, long shower after reading the electronic conversations of these love birds. The judge put it this way: ''There was no hint in contemporaneous texts with his friends, of Mr Ashby feeling upset as a result of sexual harassment. Rather those texts suggested that he was planning to use the record of his texts with Mr Slipper to empower others in a way that would affect the balance of power in the House of Representatives.'' Ashby had no doubt about his purpose. In text messages to friends he said that in bringing his case he was making ''national decisions''. He also talked of ''saving the nation''. Throughout, Ashby's hand was held by his solicitor, Michael Harmer, the famous workplace law guru from the eponymous law firm. Rares again: ''To allow these proceedings to remain in the court would bring the administration of justice into disrepute among right-thinking people.'' Don't you just love the ''right-thinking people''? There's an implication that Ashby and Harmer might not be ''right-thinking''. It's worse than that, because [b]this would have to be one of the grubbiest, underhand, unmeritorious, political assaults on a government in recent democratic memory, fanned by leading adornments of the Liberal Party.[/b] But, there is more fun waiting in the wings. Often it is to be found right at the tail of a body of serious and meaningful judicial reasoning. And there it is on the last page under the heading of ''costs'', which to lawyers is the most important part of the dissertation. Ashby's claims of sexual harassment involved ''relatively minor incidents'' and were even only likely to attract ''a very modest'' award of damages if he was successful. By engaging the PR man Anthony McClellan at $550 an hour plus GST, on top of that portion of his own costs that could not be recovered from the other side, Ashby would have received virtually no damages or other compensation had he won the case. Of course, he has the $50,000 for the ''commercial'' settlement in September of his claim against the Commonwealth. Whacko the diddle, that amount is unlikely to spread far. The case was commenced under the Fair Work Act, which is a jurisdiction in which parties are not awarded costs. However, Justice Rares said that because of the abuse of process involved with the conduct of the case, Ashby should pay Slipper's costs. There was this bit, the last sentence: ''If any special order for costs is sought in consequence of the orders I will make today either party may apply within seven days.'' What should Ashby do, now that his shakedown has failed, and he's been landed with a whopping costs order against him? Already, there's a looming conflict issue. He might sack Mr Harmer and get separate legal advice, which could urge him, within the seven-day deadline, to apply for an order of the court that Mr Harmer pay these costs. The judge already has prepared the ground. The case was brought, it seems, without ''genuine steps'' being taken to resolve the dispute. Instead, the tactic was shock and awe ambush with headlines, in a manner that used the court as the plaything of one of the litigants. There's plenty of precedent for costs against lawyers in other abuse-of-process cases - the most famous in recent memory is that of Flower & Hart, another escapade uniquely populated by Queenslanders, including the then High Court judge Ian Callinan. A company called White Industries had constructed a shopping centre at Caboolture Park for interests associated with the property developer George Herscu. George was seeking to delay payment and as a tactic, he and his lawyers, Flower & Hart, commenced fraud proceedings against the builder. There was no factual basis for the claim, but that didn't stop the case running for 150 days in the Federal Court. Justice Goldberg awarded costs against Flower & Hart for the conduct of this spurious case. It was made all the more fascinating because Ian Callinan, QC, before his elevation, had been counsel advising Flower & Hart on the litigation. Then we have the latest ignominy for the shadow attorney-general, Queenslander George Brandis. Throughout the Ashby versus Slipper case he has been volunteering his foot-in-mouth observations, which bring little hope that in an Abbott government we'll have an attorney with dignity, let alone acumen. Brandis has been the author of much posturing and silliness on legal issues. In this instance, he objected to the Commonwealth settling its case with Ashby, which was done in the expectation proceedings could be long and expensive. ''This is further evidence of how dishonest and slippery this government is,'' he intoned, without a hint of shame. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/ashby-case-a-shocking-spectacle-20121213-2bcgg.html#ixzz2EwFr4tu7 reCaptcha is on the money today: mifchief formsqCo

Casablanca

14/12/2012In the above article Richard Ackland says that: [quote]There's plenty of precedent for costs against lawyers in other abuse-of-process cases - the most famous in recent memory is that of Flower & Hart, another escapade uniquely populated by Queenslanders, including the then High Court judge Ian Callinan.[/quote] Indeed, Ackland wrote about the Flower & Hart case in an article published in the SMH 2004: [b]Bench tips a bucket on the reckless and worthless[/b] By Richard Ackland. January 16, 2004 http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/15/1073877962996.html?from=storyrhs

Alcyone

14/12/2012There's an old saying pertinent here: "Where there's money, there's muck." Make poverty dignity.

Alcyone

14/12/2012KHTAGH, your local post office sounds to me like a prime candidate for a community co-operative!

Michael

14/12/2012Bad Abbott The bastard's playing mealymouth AND lying through his teeth in one sentence again! In London asked about the case against Peter Slipper being thrown out, he says that Mal Brough was properly endorsed as the LNP candidate in Fisher, as if that answers why he can't possibly be pursued on how he got to that position by assisting to set up Slipper. And then says he can't say anything on the wider case because the judgement is the subject of an appeal, which it isn't. Apparently someone stating an intention to appeal as Ashby has done is now a legal position that foregoes the opportunity for anyone to make comment outside the court. Imagine what this gagging principle would mean if it was applied as the policy of an Abbott government. It might extend to a minister, even a Prime Minister, just having an announced 'thought' being enough for it to be considered official policy. Oh. Come on, people, can anyone seriously want this mendacious mongrel as the country's leader, and thus the 'voice' of Australia? (reCAPTCHA is being apt again - result. noweiz 'result. No ways!')

pappinbarra fox

14/12/2012[quote] Why would any half way decent person with ability and ethics put themselves forward for public office in this county? Apart from the grievous injustice to Mr Slipper this is the implication of the destructive tactics employed by the Opposition in this hung parliament, that it has the potential to discourage younger, talented people from participating in our democracy.[/quote] It used to be in days past said (at least of the lefter side of politics) that youthful enthusiastic individuals entered parliament full of ethics and a desire to do good works driven by morality and a sense of justice for the disadvantaged downtrodden and dispossessed but after a few years mixing with the old hardheads they would eventually become politicians become, perhaps, cynical or devious or worse be corrupted. How things have changed. Now you have to have the unseemly traits before you get a guernsey to run for parliament.There are some exceptions - a couple of independents and a few laborites - but generally this is a real indictment on the way things are done. The question is what can be done to turn around this trend? Because it seems to me that the labor party would be making a grave mistake to adopt the style of the LOTO and his cronies. They really need to rise above it every day in every way in every utterance. Turn the gotchya questions back on the journos, demand that they ask real questions or they will be ignored. Insist on a better discourse. Ban the attack dogs, put them back in the kennel. Don't address LOTO in Q Time, address the Speaker with humility and decorum. You can do it. Yes you can!

Michael

14/12/2012In today's Sydney Morning Herald, Richard Ackland nails it: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/ashby-case-a-shocking-spectacle-20121213-2bcgg.html and Michelle Grattan and Lenore Taylor skirt and swirl around it: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/playing-cat-and-mouse-on-inquiry-20121213-2bceg.html http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/question-so-difficult-coalition-cant-hear-20121213-2bcih.html but none leave any doubt that there's a dead cat stinking up Abbott and his cabaleers.

2353

14/12/2012Members of the LNP had no hesitation in commenting on the Slipper/Ashby case before and while it was in consideration, yet now they can't comment because it is subject to an appeal (maybe). Me thinks there is a double standard in play here. Pappinbarra fox - I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments in your last paragraph. Claim the high moral ground (AKA don't feed the trolls). Something we all find difficult at times :D

bob macalba

14/12/2012PM vs Sabra Lane on abc breakfast, JULIA was pretty angry and despite Lanes...'look over there' attempt the PM got the out the message she wanted,.. whats with that Lane? is she part of the old media hoping this will just go away so they dont have to keep reminding themselves as well as the rest of the country of their own major part in this SCANDAL, now more than ever the FIGHTING FIFTH should ready for battle.. evil cannot be allowed to rule our lives, cheers comrades

jaycee

14/12/2012So good to see the PM. slap down Sabra Lane, slap down Tabbott and the rest of the LNP. bottom-feeders...onya, "Jules"!

jaycee

14/12/2012Instead of all these journos' TALKING about the event AFTER it has passed, why can they not scoop the event as it happens...Have they no "contacts"? Are they so sh!t scared of their job they crawl away to hide?...What is it with these "Journalists"?

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

14/12/2012 Pippinbarra Fox said: [i]They really need to rise above it every day in every way in every utterance. Turn the gotchya questions back on the journos, demand that they ask real questions or they will be ignored. Insist on a better discourse. Ban the attack dogs, put them back in the kennel. Don't address LOTO in Q Time, address the Speaker with humility and decorum. You can do it. Yes you can![/i] That's a delicious strategy PFox. If you don't mind? I'm going to 'plagiarise' and send via Twitter to the PM and some MPs. Also, Ben Eltham has a solid piece on the Slipper judgment in New Matilda: [i]The Slipper affair shows why this term of Parliament has been so nasty and bitter. Rather than accept the legitimacy of Julia Gillard’s minority government, the Opposition has consciously tried to attack it and its integrity at every turn. Instead of developing constructive alternative policies, the Coalition has engaged in a zero sum war of attrition that has left both major parties damaged in the eyes of voters. It has hatched plots and engineered dirty tricks to destroy Labor with fell-swoop controversies, rather than build support through the more traditional methods of policy development and debate. Worse, much of the media has followed the Opposition’s lead, seizing upon hazy conspiracies and poorly substantiated allegations with an alacrity that has been little tempered by the exercise of judgment, or the gathering of hard facts.[/i] http://newmatilda.com/2012/12/13/slipper-conspiracy-coalition-win PS: Michael: loving your 'skirt and swirl' remark :-)

Ad astra reply

14/12/2012bob macalba, jaycee Did you notice how deflated the always-aggressive Sabra Lane sounded at the end of the AM interview? She is consistently rude when interviewing the PM; it was good to hear a feisty Julia Gillard slap her down, and get her message across in no uncertain terms. Michael It amazes me that Fairfax pays good money to Michelle Grattan and Lenore Taylor for writing such articles.

jaycee

14/12/2012No kidding..I can barely look at the ABC. anymore..I'll post a comment on an interesting article on The Drum now and then, but as for reading the other posts and the general reporting on the site..I blanche and wince! For Christ's sake Conroy...somebody..just sack that useless liberal tatoo on Tabbott's arse ; Scott!

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

14/12/2012 Vision of the PM's Sabra Lane interview. What a joy to watch. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-14/abbott-needs-to-come-clean-gillard/4427498

Tom of Melbourne

14/12/2012Studies in the UK about 10 years ago found a direct correlation between voting behaviour and IQ. The most intelligent people voted Green, followed closely by Liberal Democrats. This group was significantly above average intelligence. Quite a way behind the Greens and LibDems were the Conservatives, then Labour – who were behind the intelligence of Conservatives but not by a huge margin. Interestingly supporters of both the major parties were a long way behind the IQ of the Greens and LibDems. Quite a way behind the intelligence of Conservatives and Labour voters were the supporters of the various nationalist parties. This pattern seems to be replicated in Australia, with the quality of debate dumbed down between the ALP and the Liberals and their barrackers. More independently minded people offer more intelligent, sharper discourse

Crowey

14/12/2012Their has got to be a Royal Commission, so that we can get the truth????? out of Abbott and his henchmen in the LNP

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

14/12/2012 I think this has been posted before, but worth repeating. A petition to the Attorney-General seeking an inquiry into the #Ashbygate conspiracy can be found and signed at: https://www.change.org/petitions/attorney-general-parliament-house-canberra-inquiry-into-people-involved-with-james-ashby-acting-against-peter-slipper Can the legal beagles help me understand the difference between 'an inquiry' and a 'royal commission' ...? And maybe how effective a petition to Nicola Roxon is likely to be?

jaycee

14/12/2012thank you Janet...that presser was worth the second viewing...The PM. really stuck it to Saabra Lane!...Pompous journo!

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

14/12/2012 Just throwing up a couple more critical readings: Twitter is running fast today (like yesterday) with new important pieces: [i]Bushfire ‏@BushfireBill[/i] "The Strawberry Revolution has fallen flat on its face", My take #2 on Ashby v. Slipper and its implications: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2012/12/10/newspoll-54-46-to-coalition-11/?comment_page=75/#comment-1501861 … [i]Leroy ‏@Leroy_Lynch[/i] 10 Hours of Bullshit - Abbott probably lying about press release timestamp http://wp.me/p2LLZB-Gm by @sortius #auspol ping @latingle @osbornep The Leroy link takes you to Sortius's blog. He is a computer expert/IT geek of 20 years and is busy proving Abbott is lying about the 10 hr time delay on computer. Ergo, he had a press release ready before Steve Lewis broke the Ashby story.

MWS

14/12/2012Thanks for the Ackland link, Casablance. I haven't worked out how to cut and paste on my 7" tablet (either that or my fingers aren't small enough). Interestingly, you highlighted the identical paragraph that I would have done! Great minds think alike (or fools never differ). Note carefully Tony Abbott's denial: "I have no knowledge of any involvement by any members of the Federal Coalition [b]in Canberra[/b](my emphasis)." It's similar to "no specific knowledge." I assume "members of the Federal Coalition" refers to MHRs and Senators only, not their staff (who would be members of Liberal, National LNP etc). So who WAS involved, and were they based elsewhere, not in Canberra?

jaycee

14/12/2012Interesting that the "dumbest thinkers are therefore the left-wing bloggers"..yet that is precisely where the right-wing posters come to put up their opinions!..."verrr, verrr strange?" Well..I've always said ; "Democracy..of the people etc." always has a home with the left-wing.

Ad astra

14/12/2012Folks Thanks to you all for the links. It was enjoyable Jane to replay the interview of the PM by Sabra Lane. Obviously, she is not prepared to be messed around by cheeky journalists. Bushfire Bill once again has treated us to a forensic analysis of the Ashby/Slipper matter, such a contrast to the wishy-washy material dished up by Michelle Grattan and Lenore Taylor.

42 long

14/12/2012We've had good opportunity to see what the LNP are made of. We are aware of what sort of person Abbott is. We are aware of the method they wish to use to get power. Can you believe a word they say? I've signed the petition. Incidently Judge Rares was appointed by Phillip Ruddock. ......Hardly a corrupt left wing patsy. Don't the "BAD" MSM stink? We should compile a list of the ones who stand out from the rest for "GOOD" journalism. They need to be supported. THEY should be the leaders of what is left for the future. The public ( not Murdoch )should be the judge.

MWS

14/12/2012Ben Eltham's take on the Slipper case: [quote]"The Slipper affair shows why this term of Parliament has been so nasty and bitter. Rather than accept the legitimacy of Julia Gillard’s minority government, the Opposition has consciously tried to attack it and its integrity at every turn. Instead of developing constructive alternative policies, the Coalition has engaged in a zero sum war of attrition that has left both major parties damaged in the eyes of voters. It has hatched plots and engineered dirty tricks to destroy Labor with fell-swoop controversies, rather than build support through the more traditional methods of policy development and debate. Worse, much of the media has followed the Opposition’s lead, seizing upon hazy conspiracies and poorly substantiated allegations with an alacrity that has been little tempered by the exercise of judgment, or the gathering of hard facts."[/quote] http://newmatilda.com/2012/12/13/slipper-conspiracy-coalition-win

LadyInRed

14/12/2012I so thoroughly agree with Stilitz. He stirs a passion for change. Thanks Ad I have downloaded the book onto my Kindle. I have no idea why we idealize people who become filthy rich off the backs of the poor? And why we would want to emulate them or imagine that this is something we can all aspire to? It makes no sense. Growing together by sharing the wealth has to be better than growing apart with wealth concentrated in the hands of a greedy few? When did we start idealising people who have done nothing to deserve it? The facts of the budget show that the current government's budgetary footprint on the economy is small, running at the lowest level in 35 years, writes Stephen Koukoulas. http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4427680.html Sabra Lane needs to understand that repeatedly asking a question, asserting it in such a way as to try to make it sound like a fact, turning and twisting it, just makes Sabra look really very stupid indeed. It was a stupid attempt by the coalition to turn this onto the government (understandable they need to squirm out of the hole they are in). But when the media to do the same they really do look like the LNP mouthpiece that they are. The PM handled herself well.

TalkTurkey

14/12/2012Janet We are all very proud of you. You have taken to this task as gracefully as a certain little Platypus I met took to the (big!) pond many of us had helped prepare at Dr John Wamsley's wildlife sanctuary Warrawong. Just smooth little ripples as he quietly eased in, staying on the surface unafraid and feeding on the little~water~things immediately, delighting all the onlookers, and there were hundreds, journos and photographers, all over the news. We had just literally rescued him form Kangaroo Island but I guess you'd say that's another story. It's just the gracefulness with which you have eased into the job, and the smoothness of those ripples you send out, that you remind me of that little Platypus. One of the dearest moments of my life btw. Oh and Platypus breed at Warrawong now as a matter of course. Good omen. I regard Lyn's work as having been critical in bringing the Fighting 5th Estate to the combative edge that now has MSM journalists looking silly irrelevant biased and wrong. Yesterday one of the MSM's own acknowledged the 5th Estate as (wtte) the *front page* in journalistic reporting now. (I forget exactly who what or where, that's the gist tho'.) So Janet Thank You from all of us, you are doing this ever-so-important job splendidly.

TalkTurkey

14/12/2012Salute to Miranda Gibson, up a tree in Tassie for a year today in defence of ancient forests. How staunch is that.

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

14/12/2012 TT: *blush* :-)Thank you. (Must point out so many TPSers are watching the media, old and new, like hawks at the moment and linking them in, which is lovely.) Your platypus story and analogy is equally lovely (*muses* - should one change one's gravatar :-)) So nice to know you work to save wildlife. Lyn's work is phenomenal. I haven't seen anything like her: networker extraodinare and such a sweet personality too. The article that was so clear and glowing about the shift of fifth estate to 'front page' was Tim Dunlop's on The Drum. Repeating link here: http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4425720.html See you back on the barricades! :-)

jaycee

14/12/2012Well, from the push for action these last couple of days, it has become obvious that the Fifth Estate is doing all the heavy lifting...firing the heavy artillery..the MSM. are mostly firing blanks, save a few hardy, honest souls..we know their names! Perhaps a good stunt to bring the Fifth Estate to the general public's notice would be for some intrepid hacker to hack onto The Australian's web-page and put up an alternative headline in place iof their usual bullsh!t!

Bacchus

14/12/2012For the tweeters here, this fellow is worth keeping an eye on atm: https://twitter.com/sortius He's forensically pulling apart the press release that Mr Abbott claimed was released after the MSM had broken the Ashby / Slipper natter back in April. It seems the time stamps on the press release aren't all that they seem to be... You can also read more on his blog: http://sortius-is-a-geek.com/?p=2626

Jason

14/12/2012Thanks Bacchus!

bilko

14/12/2012LadyinRed "I so thoroughly agree with Stilitz." Ditto any tv show from the Land of the free, seems to be created in a different reality to what their news displays. Gene Roddenbury aka StarTrek creator had a vision for the USA ie the world without money and other problems, which progressed from riots shown in a DS9 episode using the back in time concept, always an an exceptable idea when one runs out of good ideas. In fact their movies are doing lots of reruns Superman another version of the original out this month. Must be some sort of urge to go back to the good old days post WWII a period that Stilitz reckons, that there were no so many real opportunities for all Americans. PS AA youv done it again merry christmas to all fellow swordspersons

Michael

14/12/2012Oh Bad Bad Abbott, with his 'the server ate my homework' rationale of just when he knew what he knew about Ashby. Great work, Sortius. Abbott and his amathematical crew have been caught out on this one. Not just clumsy blame-shifting by forged numbers, but proof he couldn't wait to jump a gun, not even one he'd loaded and should have known better to leave in the rack until well after the 'news' was out. Imagine this idjut as PM? Don't try, all it will do is cross your eyes and freeze-dry your tonsils. Shouldabeen and his office make Berlusconi look like the natural heir to Machiavelli, when themselves they most closely resemble the GrossoBuffooni family. (reCaptcha sitting in wait for me again! "stormiest Boxperal" Surely these will be boxer Abbott's stormiest, most perilous days? We can only wish. Actually, we can do something about it, as Sortius shows.)

2353

14/12/2012Bacchus - it is a pleasure to watch Sortius work, isn't it? Demonstrating that Abbott's press release predates the publication of the NewsCorp article it relates to. This is certainly worth delving into.

MWS

14/12/2012I'm not fully technologically literate, but if I wanted to write a file with a particular time-stamp, why not create a new document (with the right time-stamp) and cut and paste from the original document? Or is the Coalition completely stupid (rhetorical question only)? Perhaps they could employ somebody who can come up with [b]believable[/b] excuses instead of this rubbish?

Wake Up

14/12/2012A nice compilation of front pages to ponder on.............. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rD1lpAiDXfw

jaycee

14/12/2012Oh1 don't you just luuuuvve social media!..Thank you "Sortius"..Sortes..(Lat. sors, sortis, chance.)A species of divination...YES! I forsee trouble for Mr Rabbbott!

LadyInRed

14/12/2012Hockey working hard to change careers as a comedian! Hilarious. Fiscal discipline and in the next breath talking about their wreckless parental leave scheme. You'll see all our costings ....one day. bluster, bluster, bluster. Puff out chest, take a deep breath look commanding, and don't look like the fall-guy that you are. Slipper .....look over there! And then to top it off - we can go to hell as well. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-14/hockey-rejects-being-involved-in-slipper-case/4428400 Brough saved lives, saved lives in the NT! How dare we ask questions, how dare we think that maybe Joe is being frugal with the truth, and that Brough is anything other than a far more superior person to Slipper, and we who think that 'can go to hell'. Nice. Lovely way to win votes! If you don;t believe us "you can go to hell". Where is Tony? Afghanistan, London....Siberia here I come! I hear its nice their in December. Certainly cooler than here. Mal Brough's judgment is now very much in question. http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/bills-view-brough-may-pay-highest-price-ashby-case/1660262/ And here you go Joe you can tell Ackland to go to hell for writing this: [i]this would have to be one of the grubbiest, underhand, unmeritorious, political assaults on a government in recent democratic memory, fanned by leading adornments of the Liberal Party.[/i] Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/ashby-case-a-shocking-spectacle-20121213-2bcgg.html#ixzz2F00xHXFK Big taxing party? The facts of the budget show that the current government's budgetary footprint on the economy is small, running at the lowest level in 35 years. The current small government is made up of both low tax receipts and record cuts in government spending. http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4427680.html

Robynne

14/12/2012Sabra Lane is beyond the pale and her interview with the PM was truly rude but all it succeeded in doing was to show what an inept journo she really is. And the interview with I think it was Craig Emerson earlier in the week was every bit as bad. The abbort broadcast corporation is certainly living up to it's name. They really are a bloody disgrace. Independant Australia http://www.independentaustralia.net/jacksonville/ Has an in depth analysis of the ashby disgrace,it is well worth a read. Sorry to be off-topic Ad Astra, but the abc bias is really getting on my goat.

Ken

14/12/2012There is no doubt that America has become a more unequal society and there are efforts by some (guess who?) to do the same in Oz. As I said in a previous comment, early America was influenced by the religious view that those who would go to Heaven was predetermined but that success in this life (including wealth)was a sign that God was favouring that individual. Individualism works to some extent in frontier and agrarian societies (where people can largely provide for themselves)but not so well in conurbations. Education is vital to decreasing inequality but often overlooked are values. Some groups will have values (from their socialisation) that do not necessarily fit with the prevailing values or ideology. For a long time, Australia had an egalitarian ethos. I grew up being taught never to "big note" myself, never to be a "big head". In more recent years that value did not help me. My boss told me a couple times after I had been interviewed for promotions that I did not sell myself at interview. My reply was that if I wanted to sell myself, I would have been a salesman, not a Public Servant. Egalitarian communities (even within a wider society) play down differences and spread wealth, even with little things like a successful worker shouting his friends more often in the pub (in fact, that used to be expected). "Increasing poverty at the bottom" is apparent in America with recognition of the "working poor". Howard tried to do that here. He said any job is better than no job. Workplace agreements were intended to drive down wages for those at the bottom (but many at the top actually benefitted). By contrast, when the original basic wage decision was handed down in 1907, Justice Higgins said "The provision of fair and reasonable remuneration is obviously designed for the benefit of employees in the industry, and it must be meant to secure to them something which they cannot get by the ordinary system of individual bargaining with employers." But that was what Howard was trying to take us back to - and what the Liberals would still like to do. One other interesting issue for the lowest paid workers is how often societies throughout history have used migrants to do the menial jobs - labourers and servants. The Irish in England in the 1800s, subcontinent "guest workers" in many rich Middle East oil countries today. Even in Oz, newly arrived migrants are often found in the lowest jobs. I offer no explanation for this but I do find it intriguing. The increasing use of casual labour and some of the steps taken under Howard, added to what is called precarious employment, when people feel their job is not secure. In such circumstances, it has been found that people do not spend as freely, thus reducing the wider economic benefit of having work (any work!). Other studies I have read have suggested that to escape from poverty at least one member of a family needs to be in full-time work - casual and part-time positions do not appear to improve the circumstances. For all the talk about mining, it employs relatively few workers compared to other industries. Around the time of the 2006 census, I worked out that if every mining job in remote areas was Aborginalised there would still be a few thousand unemployed Aboriginals. The mining industry may create wealth but it does not create a commensurate quantity of jobs:hence, the owners get wealthy and the nation only benefits to the extent that taxes can capture some of that income. At to the effect of bank bail-outs, I have always taken the view that bail-outs benefit the lender, even at a national level. When a country is given a so called bail-out, it is usually so they can meet their debts (i.e. pay the international banks and bond holders). We had an example in Oz of what happens when a government tries not to do that. Lang decided to postpone payments to English bond holders during the Depression and was dismissed. This is getting a bit too long. I may add more later.

bob macalba

14/12/2012Big thanks,..Janet, Michael, MWS, Lady in Red, Robynne, Bacchus and any i have missed, links everywhere Wake Up,.. those front pages!!!! says it all really, our media is just crap,

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

14/12/2012 Hi ya Bob Macalba :-) One more to read to keep maintaining the rage you do rather well (and aren't the TPSers amazing in the last coupla days - so energized by the Slipper judgement!) http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/abbott-implicated-in-ashby-conspiracy-by-10-hours-of-bullshit/

Tom of Melbourne

14/12/2012[quote]Australia and Nauru could be in breach of their international obligations to protect refugees over the running of the detention centre on Nauru, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees has found. In an unusually strong report for the agency, the UNHCR said Australia’s ''no-advantage'' policy, in which boat people who arrive in Australia after August 13 face transfer to Nauru or Manus Island, is ''inconsistent'' with both countries’ responsibility to protect the rights of refugees[/quote] Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/unhcr-takes-aim-at-australia-over-nauru-detainees-20121214-2be9u.html#ixzz2F0aYvt5R The ALP government has really lived up to expectations.

Christine H

14/12/2012Thanks TT for your kind comments and for reposting my comment of yesterday. That was the third time I have posted here, I'm trying to disabuse my husband of the notion that I am a 'lurker'. This I am told is not a good thing though I must confess I have been 'lurking' at TPS and enjoying Ad Astra's fantastic analysis and articles and Lynn's wonderful links as well as all contributions for at least a year. Bob Macalba and Jaycee I had the same reaction as both of you when I watched that interview with Sabra Lane and the PM. Apparently 'gotcha' journalism is what we now see routinely at the ABC. I used to enjoy The Drum but give it a miss now for the sake of my mental health! Pappinbarra Fox Your post regarding the ALP and the PM adopting the high moral ground instead of the Liberals stock-in-trade mud throwing is sage advice indeed. We know that the PM rates well with women and that women particularly despise gutter politics. As tempting as it is to get down and dirty and start taking swings at your political opponents inevitably you run the risk of blowback. However the Liberals should have to pay some kind of penalty for this conspiracy to bring down the government. It does have the whiff of corruption about it. Janet Your question about the difference between a Royal Commission and an Inquiry, is I believe, and I am no legal expert, that a RC has more coercive powers to compel witnesses to appear before it and to produce relevant documents and materials. Speaking of experts I asked my computer/tech wizz offspring to try to explain to me the whole 'timestamp stole my homework' excuse by Abbott today and as discussed earlier it is a complete load of bollocks! Seriously if you compiled a list of Abbott's porkies since he has been in politics it would be a tome thicker than 'War and Peace'. Apologies to Tolstoy!

42 long

14/12/2012The more I ponder on this the more I feel the matter should be tested at LAW. People who play with fire should expect to get burnt. Sorry you appear to be carrying the can Joe, but you are a pathetic hypochrite. YOU have been found out by a judge appointed by one of your side P Ruddock so you can't complain there. Do you people have any sense of common decency left or have you just been pressing on regardless of what rotten precedent you set so that you can gain government at any cost? Muck raking,distortio and lies, depending on support from the vilest section of the media. Rupert Murdoch won't live forever. The trashing you people have given to principle and decency and proper process will live long in the blogosphere long after Rupert passes on. What will the Abbott mob's legacy be? The most negative and foul opposition I can recall in australia's history at a time when real planning and effort is needed. Wreck the lot as long as you get to rule the mess left. You could never get your brain around the hung parliament. you don't inherit or steal government . You EARN it, by convincing the electorate that you are the better government. The fact that you don't do that makes me think that you can't do that. You can't offer a better option. You haven't even tried. Maybe this time you will get what you have earned. The wrath and justice of the LAW of the land.

Gravel

14/12/2012Talk Turkey Tim Dunlop is the person that wrote the 5th estate is now the front page. I was reading his blog from a long time ago. He started at a Road to Surfdom, Nasking was there too. He is always excellent to read. Now I'm going back to read the other comments.

Gravel

14/12/201242 long Very well put. I refuse to think past today. Let us hope the Government does something to about the disgraceful happenings. Christine H Glad you have stopped being a lurker and are putting your 2cents worth in, it helps us all to hear everyone's different thoughts. Talk Turkey You are becoming our welcome wagon of late, keep up the good work. Loved your platypus story. We had a couple in the creek when we lived in Tassie. What a great compliment to Janet, and very well deserved too.

Jason

14/12/20122353, Can yo give us more meat on the bones about this? dee madigan‏@deemadigan QLD LNP MP Woodforth has just linked school results to fluoridation. Faaark. The stupid hurts my ears. #abc730

42 long

14/12/2012That argument could have some teeth in it

Jason

14/12/201242 long, Thanks! why didn't I think of that? LMAO!

2353

14/12/2012Jason. It was just on the ABC News here and I was half listening - so here goes . . . Woodforth is a first (and probably last) term MP from a northside suburban Brisbane seat. He has a theory that fluoridation in drinking water (a recent innovation in the majority of Queensland) is dosing the population with poison - for all the usual reasons claimed by the nut jobs. Newman has already watered down (sorry!) the state requirement to provide fluoride in water to a decision by each water authority (generally owned by a single or group of local councils) and a few (Bundaberg and the area south of Cairns being the main areas) have decided to discontinue to dose their water supplies. For reference - up until a couple of years ago, the only city in Queensland the fluoridated it's water was Townsville. Unsurprisingly, Queensland has the worst oral health record in Australia. On the Ashby thing - despite the majority of the 4th estate trying to bury the story, it seems to have a life of its own. The 5th estate should get a heap of new readers out of it - and that is probably a good news story.

KHTAGH

14/12/2012MWS He is referring the the Meta data time stamp. Every time you open or alter a file on any computer is writes to itself in what is called a meta data file [kinda inside the file back page type of thing] This records the time the file was created or altered, for how long it was opened, these entry's cant be altered & if they are is pretty obvious. It stands up in court & they take notice of it, tampering with a Meta Data file is REAL SERIOUS SHIT.

Robynne

14/12/2012This article at IA puts the abbott lie to rest, this totally lying grub is now treating everyone as if they are so stupid.I expect that that is what you deserve when you go to alan jones for advice. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/abbott-implicated-in-ashby-conspiracy-by-10-hours-of-bullshit/

MWS

14/12/2012KHTAGH, I know about time stamps, but I don't know if cutting and pasting text into a NEW document is a way to hide the (original) time stamp on the (original) document. I am assuming that cutting and pasting text won't copy the original time stamp? In this specific case, it's a PDF created from a Microsoft Word document (ie print to file) - but seems to show the time stamp of the Word document too? It's not good practice to broadcast the Word Doc, because you can see the editing process embedded within the document, which might reveal more information than the creator of the document wanted. That's why PDFs are used. If it is as easy as cutting and pasting text into a new document, why didn't the LNP cover their tracks with this method - or is it that THEY don't understand time stamps?

KHTAGH

14/12/2012My apologies I re read your post & realised I had taken it the wrong way. I agree with you last post. Pretty dumb. Obviously above the average Lieberals pay grade.

nasking

14/12/2012 Julia Gillard, the PM, had the demeanour of a BATTERED woman this morning. She's copped alot of shit...from all quarters. Abbott, opposition leader, had a smug holier than thou look...grandiose with The Lord on his side stuff. Typical batterer. As is Murdoch. And too many used to privileges...afraid of change...mortality of their position. Thinking their overLORDS will protect them...provide them sanctuary. Hitler's crims thought same. Don't count her out. Nor US. Roar of engines...lit up...the night N'

2353

14/12/2012Just had a thought after reading the IA story. Maybe the Government should wait for a while before the enquiry - and it could investigate the claims against Slipper and Thomson. If the timing is right, s couple of month enquiry with a brief to compel answers leading into an election campaign could be really interesting (snigger snigger).

Ad astra

14/12/2012Wake Up What a revealing set of Front Pages. Casablanca All that Hockey could muster was to tell us that ‘Tony Abbott’ was mentioned 24 times by Julia Gillard. He was expecting end-of-year greetings, and seemed surprised that she lambasted Abbott over his apparent involvement in the biggest political scandal for decades. These guys either don’t get it or they think they can bluff their way out of the condemnation of Justice Rares with a few set lines, like ‘the Government is hyperventilating’, something [b]they[/b] should be doing over what people are calling ‘Ashbygate’. They are hoping for absolution over Christmas, but I doubt if Julia Gillard will let this one go. This is very, very big. Robynne That is a great chronicle about the HSU saga and Kathy Jackson story. Ken Thank you for your thoughtful comment. You are right: [i]"Increasing poverty at the bottom" is apparent in America with recognition of the "working poor". Howard tried to do that here. He said any job is better than no job. Workplace agreements were intended to drive down wages for those at the bottom (but many at the top actually benefitted).”[/i] Employers and the Coalition want them back; they call it ‘flexibility’. Janet The IA article is the reason that there needs to be a forensic investigation of Abbott’s involvement and that of the rest of the Coalition and the others – Brough and McArdle. Otherwise the Coalition and the MSM will sweep it under the carpet. Christine H Thank you for your kind comments. Your thoughtful well-written contributions are very welcome here. 42 long You are right. Hockey is a hypocrite. He seems to be the only one who was sent out today, and he was pathetic. Jason After hearing that statement linking fluoridation to poor maths scores, I realized that inanity is still alive and well. That fluoride is effective in reducing caries is indisputable. In the sixties, before water was fluoridated, as medicaI officer of health for the rural shire where I had my practice, I handed out fluoride tablets at immunization sessions. In just a few years, the practice of the one local dentist changed from extractions and fillings in children to orthodontics, because caries had virtually disappeared. Anecdotal, but very convincing. There is no evidence of harm from ingested fluoride from water supplies. But then some believe that the world is just 6000 years old!

KHTAGH

14/12/2012MWS [i] I am assuming that cutting and pasting text won't copy the original time stamp?[/i] I don't know about this but it does record all alterations time & the path they take[even if you move the file], so it just might, even the copy & paste.

Jason

14/12/20122353 Aa, Thanks for the information, I'm lost for words! I thought the argument over this was settled years ago!

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14/12/2012Nasking Good to see you, big bear. Yes, she did look battered, but wasn’t she feisty. She is not going to take any more of the crap that has been thrown at her all year, and she was letting Abbott and Co. know in unambiguous terms. 2353 I think you are right – Julia ought to threateningly dangle the forensic inquiry in front of Abbott over the coming months until she is ready to strike. That would be a real ‘cobra strike’.

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14/12/2012Jason It was.

Robynne

14/12/2012Sorry to everyone, but you all know I'm a bit of a dill when it comes to this new-fangled stuff. I actually meant to link you to this article on IA:http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/the-tragedy-of-ashby-and-slipper-act-4/ Not to say that the articles about the Thomson/Jackson affair aren't well worth reading, it shows how duplicitous these low lifes that inhabit the opposition are. And the expose from the IT clever person are very damning of abbott.

2353

14/12/2012Jason - its similar to the argument over climate change, the science suggested years ago that we were in deep s**t - they just aren't sure how deep! Yet the Heartland Institute and their mindless drones continue to claim equal time for their mindless and factless crap.

42 long

14/12/2012The agenda of the heartland institute is to confuse the population and allow the exploiters of the worlds resources to continue to make profits in a one-off sale and despoilation of the only planet we have. Deliberate misleading of the people for the purpose of profitting at the expense of the future of the whole world is the worst crime imaginable. "Those who gamble should be able to afford to lose" If THEY are wrong we all suffer, and to what expent Almost beyond comprehension.. In the meantime THEY make obscene profits. Plunderers who are quite prepared to sacrifice the future of all our progeny so they gratify themselves for a short time. Time Is running out for something to be done. Tony Abbott is the worst thing that could have befallen this country at this time in history. Totally unproductive,and consumed with his own ambition.

nasking

14/12/2012 Too Nite Too Oft..en To see the man in the tie http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cAgAvnvXF9U N'

nasking

14/12/2012 [b]Yes, she did look battered, but wasn’t she feisty. She is not going to take any more of the crap that has been thrown at her all year, and she was letting Abbott and Co. know in unambiguous terms[/b] Ohhhyeaaa Ad, She-king Warrior-queen She's got the look of fire Burnin' be HE Soon be realised. Cocky HE...sends out in West Town guns and other things... Come east...lookin' for same...and peculiar things Put up the man in the iron cross Thinks draws fast...mouth open wide...like lizard closed in public second look...tongue flicks...thinks time on his side Call him out...some Me Draw me a bath I need to reflect I hear the clock... The light in the sky grows closer Tick...tock... Not 'fraid Like him fraud Remind sweet her Push the button...pull the lever Close the door I will be fine...will see you again WE ARE 12 N'

Libbyx33

15/12/2012(very early) 'Morning, Swordsters, I like this: "It is probably impossible to overestimate the admiration and affection for Gillard among women, especially young women, after her ''sexism and misogyny'' speech in Parliament in October. All the websites represented on Monday plugged the speech approvingly. ''So yesterday this happened,'' was how allconsuming .com.au presented the video of the speech. ''Game On.'' There are still some people, including in the media, who don't appreciate the game-changing nature of that speech. Even Gillard herself did not understand its impact right away. She has said that after she sat down she was about to call for some correspondence to sign when the Treasurer Wayne Swan said to her, ''You don't just sign letters after you've given a J'Accuse speech.'' Even so, it took 2 million-plus YouTube views, congratulations from the US President and other world leaders, not to mention hundreds of letters from Australian women, to persuade Gillard that she had taken command of a whole new political terrain." Brilliant read! More here: Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/gillard-working-her-womenfocus-mojo-20121214-2bfgo.html#ixzz2F2VDJXAT

nasking

15/12/2012 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xzkhOmKVW08

nasking

15/12/2012 http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=S7uBrx5aJ20

Libbyx33

15/12/2012I do think too, that this is something we all need to think about. I've been there (20 years ago). Not a nice place to be. "Newstart is now so low, says the Business Council, that it's likely to be a barrier to employment. ''Trying to survive on $35 a day is likely to erode the capacity of individuals to present themselves well or maintain their readiness for work.''" Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/the-poor-get-poorer-while-the-rest-get-the-handouts-20121214-2bfdo.html#ixzz2F2ZebqYL Especially when you read what's [i]literally happening down the end of my street:[/i] "A WATER BOTTLE, a pair of reading glasses, some pork chops and a dad who'll stop drinking. Community worker June Hintz said the heartbreaking Christmas wish lists of children whose families were or have been homeless had brought her to tears. Homeless children who have been sleeping rough with their families at the empty OC Centre at Eagleby in Logan City, Queensland have asked for basics such as glasses and shoes this Christmas. For children who do not have a stable home, getting a bed of their own or a pair of glasses so they can read is far more important than a doll or a computer game. Local Beenleigh community worker June Hintz said the Christmas wishes were distressingly basic." Read more: http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/homeless-kids-wish-list-that-will-make-you-cry/story-fnet08ui-1226536197293#ixzz2F2ed4aOF

TalkTurkey

15/12/2012[b]ABBORTT SHOULD RESIGN.[/b]

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15/12/2012Robynne [i]IA[/i] gives a good documentary account of some of the exchanges in the Slipper/Ashby scandal, which would interesting fodder for a forensic inquiry into the conspiracy to unseat the elected Government of this nation. Nasking Great Beatles songs and so apt. Libbyx33 The Anne Summers piece was great reading. Abbott should very worried. I was amused to read near the end: [i]”…at the Prime Minister's press gallery drinks at The Lodge on November 29 where, I am reliably informed, hard-nosed Canberra journos who just two days earlier had been yelling borderline abusive questions at the PM about her past with Slater & Gordon, lined up to have their photos taken with her.”[/i] Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/gillard-working-her-womenfocus-mojo-20121214-2bfgo.html#ixzz2F4IXXcnx While I was there, I took the opportunity to read Michelle Grattan’s article this morning, another inconsequential opinion piece. And they pay her good money for those one thousand words. http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/gillard--takes-a--big-slipper-to-abbott-over-ashby-judgment-20121214-2be28.html The Freeman-Green article [i]The poor get poorer while the rest get handouts[/i] is consistent with the message of this piece featuring Joseph Stiglitz. http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/the-poor-get-poorer-while-the-rest-get-the-handouts-20121214-2bfdo.html#ixzz2F2ZebqYL Yes TT, and he should resign now! Folks I’ll be out all day at a friend’s birthday party.

Ken

15/12/2012While I agree with all the comments about the Ashby case, I will make just a few points. I say this as a "Labour man" all my life (and no, that is not a typo - I deliberately include the "u"). I think, so far, the most damning evidence for Abbott's involvement is the time stamp. But what he and Hockey and the others are saying is only what one would expect in the circumstances. We don't really expect them to come out and say, yes we were involved and yes we are sorry!!!!! That's just politics. Poltically, it has give the PM a stronger hand. The issue for the Government is timing. Too much too early on this and it will be forgotten by the time of the next election. Possum Comitatus had an interesting post on "The Primary Dynamic" which showed that in the past decade the personal standing of the PM has had the most influence on voting intention - the standing of the Opposition Leader has had no effect. If his stats are correct, then the PM needs to use this in a way that boosts her own credentials as PM, rather than just tearing Abbott down. Of course, the other danger is that if attacks on Abbott are too successful, there could be a change in the Liberal leadership and, as many others have pointed out, Abbott is one of the best things the Government has going for it in termsof re-election.

Patriciawa

15/12/2012 [b]We Want Our Speaker Back![/b] Mal Brough ambitious office seeker, James Ashby mercenary leaker, Though their case could not be weaker Still brought down a first rate speaker. How could that have come to pass? Remember Slipper kicking ass? And doing it with gravitas! In Oz speak that means ‘bit o’ class.’ It wasn’t just the way he dressed In long black gown and fancy vest. What had watchers most impressed Was the end of uproar and unrest. The Chamber filled no more with cries Of outraged members screaming, “Lies!” In other simple ways and wise He brought calm; fewer lows, more highs. Prissie Pyne, censured, had to use ‘Time Out’ to find the Members’ loos, Fearing the Speaker might refuse To let him rise to make more POOs. He cut time-wasteful SSO’s Used by Abbott against his foes. Will there be many more of those? If Slipper’s gone for good, who knows? His talent is too good to miss! Pollies! Make friends, shake hands, or kiss! One thing you must agree is this - Order in the House with Pete was bliss! Mal Brough ambitious office seeker, James Ashby mercenary leaker, Though their case could not be weaker Still brought down a first rate speaker. How could that have come to pass? Remember Slipper kicking ass? And doing it with gravitas! In Oz speak that means ‘bit o’ class.’ It wasn’t just the way he dressed In long black gown and fancy vest. What had watchers most impressed Was the end of uproar and unrest. The Chamber filled no more with cries Of outraged members screaming, “Lies!” In other simple ways and wise He brought calm; fewer lows, more highs. Prissie Pyne, censured, had to use ‘Time Out’ to find the Members’ loos, Fearing the Speaker might refuse To let him rise to make more POOs. He cut time-wasteful SSO’s Used by Abbott against his foes. Will there be many more of those? If Slipper’s gone for good, who knows? His talent is too good to miss! Pollies! Make friends, shake hands, or kiss! One thing you must agree is this - Order in the House with Pete was bliss! Cheers, Patricia http://polliepomes.wordpress.com/2012/12/14/we-want-our-speaker-back/

Patriciawa

15/12/2012Sorry, guys, don't know how I doubled up there!

Ken

15/12/2012Patricia - agree with the sentiments of your verse. Whatever one may think of Slipper's personal life (and there are many things to dislike and criticise), what is often overlooked is that he did make a bloody good Speaker!

Granny Anny

15/12/2012There are suggestions over at Poll Bludger that Murdoch editors are deliberately not reporting the Ashby matter.

42 long

15/12/2012What would you expect? They have their aims and that is to have the LieNP in government. It suits their business plan.Lewis probably gets a salary rise for his efforts. They are so crass they don't try to appear fair. Wasn't interfering with the processes of government in the UK what started the Levesen enquiry? The attitude is the same is it was in the US. The Democrats ( read LABOR) have no right to governance). The LieNP are still doing the biggest dummy spit in history.They don't like "hung" parliaments. I can't recall where on the voting slip it has vote for HUNG . It just "HAPPENS". Like "shit happens" TONY. You didn't get the numbers so keep trying to put red headed sheilas in gaol. (And rely on smear and ruining people to get the job.) Your character is now tarnished as well. Getting caught out all the time. Your word is worth nothing!! You are covered in it Tony....

nasking

15/12/2012 If the Americans don't WAKE UP after this latest guns-related tragedy, which has seen so many young lives prematurely ended by a swarm of bullets, then there is something badly wrong in that place. And SHAME on our QLD premier and his team for pushing to make it easier to own a gun. And SHAME on all those criminal and corrupt individuals in Australia for smuggling so many guns into this country. And making it far less safe...and increasing the chances that a similar tragedy will happen here oneday. This FLOOD OF WEAPONS across the world is helping to leave a trail of misery and despair...and it has come with unnecessary conflicts and wars, slack and weak regulations, the exponential growth of libertarianism... and a media far too influenced by the Murdoch empire who have been willing to cater to every kind of red neck, libertarian conspiracy nut and pro-gun crusading whack job. I'm sure it was Fox News the other day that was promoting mums in America proudly taking their school age kids to the shooting range. Time for REAL CHANGE. N'

Tom of Melbourne

15/12/20121. Gillard made a written agreement with Wilkie to win government 2. Gillard must have known that the commitment was unconditional and she could not guarantee the commitments she made. 3. Gillard walked away from the agreement without even bringing the support of her own party to the vote. 4. Rather than deal with the consequences of this dishonesty she appointed Slipper to Speaker 5. Many of her colleagues warned her not to do this. 6. Slipper was already a proven rorter 7. Slipper continued his rorting and sleazy behaviour. 8. Slipper proved himself to be unfit for Speaker 9. The Liberals used dishonest tactics to demonstrate his sleazy behaviour 10. The Liberals can be legitimately criticised for point 9. I’m not quite sure why Gillard is trying to take some form of moral high ground.

Pikiranku

15/12/2012Another terrific poem, Patricia, and I agree wholeheartedly with its sentiments. I'd almost given up watching Question Time (unthinkable for a tragic such as I am) because it was so frustratingly disjointed, inaudible and unedifying under Harry Jenkins' watch. But Peter Slipper was just getting the whole place really into line and QT was well worth watching again when he was forced to stand down. A twofold incentive for the Liberals to get rid of him, I suppose - remove an effective Speaker who had the temerity to stand up to them and bring down the legitimate government at the same time.

Jason

15/12/2012http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rggFlBsqalw

Jason

15/12/2012Bushfire Bill Posted Saturday, December 15, 2012 at 12:08 pm | Permalink The media has gone on strike over Ashby. One would have thought that an issue they covered with such glee and lascivious attention would have at least made it to page 1 on maybe a couple of days in the immediate aftermath. One might have been forgiven for thinking that the poring over a few old Cabcharge dockets, forensic matching of signatures by hired handwriting experts and the instigation of a virtual manhunt for the hapless driver of the limo might have been matched by some attention, post decision, to who said what to whom and when. All that Photoshop and Illustrator time spent on attaching a rat’s tail, pointy ears and whiskers, putting nonexistent judges horsehair wigs on top of Peter Slipper’s head, all that inventive punning on the name “Slipper”, all those hours spent on stakeouts at various airports in the middle of the night could possibly have been matched by some questions directed at the side of politics that was found to have consipired to run a bogus case against the Speaker, followed by some skeptical analysis of the answers given. But no, hardly anything has been heard, except the voices of Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey, joined at the lip by the spin of the day, as if the tens of thousands of kilometres between them was just a door or two up the street, chanting “hyperventilation” in sympathetic synchronization. Who’d have thought that, faced with the biggest story of the year – to wit, that the previous biggest story of the year was an official crock of shit – the media’s chutzpah would extend to not only playing down the resolving of the first, but actually burying the latter? Not only burying it, but blaming the victims – Peter Slipper and the government – en passant, indeed listing one of the perpetrators, Mal Brough, as the true victim? With the misogyny speech, the media’s mistake was to try to articulate why it, and its 3,000,000 hits were unimportant and bad for the government. I mean it was just twitter and YouTube after all, right? The media have learned their lesson alright: this time they’re not trying to define the context, they’re just ignoring the context altogether. It’s safer that way. If the Justice Rares “version” of the truth never happened, then there’s no story. IF it’s in the paper it must be important (just ask Barrie Cassidy), so isn’t the converse true? I guess that’s what we’re required to believe. And “version” it was. The judge in this case has merely one opinion among many. He clearly doesn’t understand the media’s role in being official arbitrator of what’s important and relevant, and what’s not. Judgement? Meh. It’s just what they said would be earth-shattering when it was delivered, but now they don’t think that way anymore. That was then. This is now. Possibly the best form of inquiry into all this would be for Peter Slipper to play hardball with costs, attaching Peter Harmer to his list of potential debtors. Then the court could look into it all and enquire away. The legal eagles around here (and elsewhere) say this might automatically split Ashby and Harmer, due to an unresolvable conflict of interest – Harmer can’t act for both himself and Ashby at the same time, as I understand it – forcing James to find yet another high-priced legal representative who’ll go into bat for him for free. That’s several hundred thousand dollars worth of “free”, on top of what James already owes. Any takers out there willing to take the challenge that, if James loses, then they might be next in Slipper’s sights for compensation? As Alfred Dolittle once sang, "With a little bit of luck, When 'e comes around you won't be 'ome." To those who say the media’s abrogation of its responsibility to cover the story through to its conclusion is no big deal, to be expected really, and that only ranters and ravers (and the incredibly naive, of course) should be surprised and dismayed by this, I say, thanks heaps for leaving parliamentary employment. The Labor party is better off without your lazy cynicism. The only pity is that you came here to bother us instead.

2353

15/12/2012Its interesting that there is only extremely marginal interest in the Slipper/Ashby thing if you read the Courier Mail. Could hardly find a mention. And the only mention in the Brisbane Times is this (a survey saying people prefer Brough to Slipper in the Fisher electorate) -> http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/slippers-constituents-say-they-no-longer-support-him-20121214-2bf7l.html. Pathetic.

Wake Up

15/12/2012Jason, that YouTube link......... lol what a classic !!!

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

15/12/2012 Ken: I agree. (Apologies for disagreeing with Ad and TT.) Abbott is one of the best things the ALP have going for it in terms of re-election. The PM needs to reel him in and let him out a tad and reel him in and do him oh so slowly! Mind you, we may not have anything resembling a democracy left by the time she does him, and there's the moral and political rub ... Granny Anny: it isn't just the Murdoch press that is under-reporting Ashbygate. It's also Fairfax and ABCNews24, and, and etc. And Jason, I see Bushfire Bill is hitting this theme hard too. Twitter is running fast and furious on just this issue (and other issues). I've had time to grab some Tweets, most with relevant links to pieces. Keep your eye on what Margo Kingston is saying on this issue perhaps. In my humble, if we are looking at the second nearest thing we've had to sedition in this country, then the media is complicit. Democracy is truly in peril, and calling for an inquiry or royal commission (thanks Christine for explanation of differences) means, if we got it, looking into not only the culpability of the LNP, but also the actual and implicit involvement of institutionalised media in seditious activity. The PM has a very strong hand. Think the take-no-prisoners Judge Rares would be ideal to head a Royal Commission! Sorry, back to links. [i]Mike Bloomberg ‏@MikeBloomberg[/i] Today President Obama rightly sent his condolences to families. But the country needs him to send a bill to Congress http://bit.ly/12dSWRj [i]Julian Simpson ‏@JulianSimpson1[/i] This is a STUNNING savaging of the NRA and their collusion in child murder http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/12/newtown-and-the-madness-of-guns.html … [i]Carol Bohman ‏@CarolBohman[/i] Here is a list of every politician who is receiving money from the NRA to make sure guns are easy to own: http://say.ly/wFP4MvO [i]George Megalogenis ‏@GMegalogenis[/i] Australia suffered 13 mass murders between 1981 and 1996. In the 16 years since our gun law reforms: zero. No more excuses please America. [i]Adrian B ‏@Volvo_of_doom[/i] Under John Howard's sedition laws, Tony Abbott, Christopher Pyne, Julie Bishop and Mal Brough would be facing conspiracy charges right now [i]margo kingston ‏@margokingston1[/i] Bought the papers today. Where r the news features, the reads, on #ashbygate? Where is the analysis, the questions on Ashby's funding? ... [i]Craig Emerson MP ‏@CraigEmersonMP[/i] @margokingston1 A small handful of journalists willing to examine but most editors not interested: they have a different agenda. #auspol [i]Mr Denmore ‏@MrDenmore[/i] The story you won't read in the newspaper reviews of 2012 is the role of the media in our political circus. Here it is. http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/send-in-the.html … [i]Victoria Rollison ‏@Vic_Rollison[/i] My latest post: When did Watergate come off the front page?http://wp.me/p1ug7x-dt #Ashbygate #Auspol #Mediafail [i]John Pratt ‏@Jackthelad1947[/i] No theory, just a real conspiracy. #auspol Time for a judicial inquiry. Liberal heads to roll. http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/-2bess.html … [i]IndependentAustralia ‏@independentaus[/i] Cartoonist Matt Bissett-Johnson gives his take on the#SlipperConspiracy. http://fb.me/E1On7iGl [i]Ross Bowler ‏@BowlerBarrister[/i] Slipper judgment could lead to challenge of absolute privilege Defamation defence ♦ http://twy.la/W6DDJD [i]The Masked Crusader ‏@themaskedcrus[/i] Facts took a while in 'Slippergate': Albanese http://www.smh.com.au/national/facts-took-a-while-in-slippergate-albanese-20120616-20g9h.html … via @smh [i]Chris Barrett ‏@selga55[/i] #abuseofprocess politically too #LNPlies Persecution case: scathing judgment turns blowtorch on Ashby teamhttp://www.smh.com.au/national/persecution-case-scathing-judgment-turns-blowtorch-on-ashby-team-20121214-2bf7h.html … [i]Wendy Bacon ‏@Wendy_Bacon[/i] More on Lewis's role in Slipper Affair from Lagan in Global Mail. He missed grub in his scoop. http://www.theglobalmail.org/blog/judge-theres-a-grub-in-my-scoop/521/ … [i]Cranky Frog ‏@FrogCrank[/i]y How would you rate Campbell Newman's QldLNP gov? End of Year Report Card A to F: You can vote here: Courier Mail http://ht.ly/g7kO0 [i]John Pratt ‏@Jackthelad1947[/i] Finally some cracking good news for fracking industry. This will Fracking well kill us. #auspol #climatechange http://www.smh.com.au/business/-2bf91.html … [i]John Pratt ‏@Jackthelad1947[/i] Report card makes grim reading. "To win the economic race we must first win the education race!" #auspol Gonski now! http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/-2bfe2.html … [i]Major Major ‏@defenceAU[/i] Julia Gillard and Tim Mathieson try to do normal things< most would miss shopping & the freedom to go to visit familypic.twitter.com/Rqy0t17w [i]Michael Short ‏@shortmsgs[/i] some thoughts on politics and economics #auspol #economics#abbott #gillard http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/-2bfm5.html … ** [i]TheFinnigans[/i] battle must be won against those who, with whatever motive, relish talking down the econ @CraigEmersonMP on the BISONs http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/dont-let-the-prophets-of-gloom-get-away-with-it/story-e6frgd0x-1226537002130 … [i]Chipp Awae ‏@sloughly[/i] Income management in the Northern Territory: racism is still the issue - http://overland.org.au/blogs/loudspeaker/2012/12/income-management-in-the-northern-territory-racism-is-still-the-issue/ … ** For a piece in the Oz that is behind the paywall, copy the link and put this into Google. The story will come up. Copy the Google link for the story, put it into your browser and you should be able to read the piece.

2353

15/12/2012Dentists are protesting Bundaberg Council's decision to not fluoridate water. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-14/dentists-concerned-over-fluoride-opt-out/4428932 Gerry Harvey claims retail is suffering and the goes out and purchases part of Tinkler's horse empire - go figure. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-15/talks-underway-to-sell-tinkler27s-farm2c-horse/4429612 [quote]A draft of the next report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has been leaked on climate sceptic websites. The leaker and other climate sceptics have isolated one section of the draft to suggest that cosmic rays such as those of the Sun may have a greater influence on warming than had been claimed. Professor Steve Sherwood, the director of the Climate Change Research Centre at the University of NSW, was the lead author of the chapter in question. He says the idea that the chapter he authored confirms a greater role for solar and other cosmic rays in global warming is "ridiculous".[/quote] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-14/ipcc-draft-climate-report-leaked/4429036

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

15/12/2012 And Elder nails it one more time. [b]You can't handle an Abbott government [/b] Andrew Elder The press gallery seeks to bring about an Abbott government by overreporting the failures of the Gillard government and ignoring narratives to the contrary (particularly if they emanate from the dreaded social media). The Gillard government does not court the press gallery like previous governments did, or like Abbott does in Opposition; the press gallery is keen to see the back of it, and keen to exercise what power it has left to secure that result. The press gallery should not seek to bring about an Abbott government because it could not handle an Abbott government. The overreporting was shown this week with the dismissal of a sexual harassment case brought by James Ashby against the Commonwealth and the former Speaker, Peter Slipper. Allegations arising from the plaintiff's submissions received prominent and salacious coverage in the media, while the judge's findings did not. http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/you-cant-handle-abbott-government.html?m=1

Jason

15/12/2012Bushfire‏@BushfireBill The story the media WANTED to write... http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2012/12/10/newspoll-54-46-to-coalition-11/?comment_page=102/#comment-1503209 … #auspol

TalkTurkey

15/12/2012Jan We don't really disagree on Abbortt. I have said before, the strategy should be to hound him and his mob of thugs towards a spill, and when it gets close, lobby like hell to keep Abbortt there! They are in [i]Duhrrr?[/i]ville now, they don't know what to do, if it weren't for the media brownout on the Brough-Ashby Treasonous Plot they would be jumping from windows by now! Imagine the response if Labor had tried something like this! Brough and Abbortt both are major assets for Labor. But stay or go they have done great works for us already.

nasking

15/12/2012 From Mike Carlton: [b]Justice Steven Rares of the Federal Court is no stranger to political rough and tumble. I recall him fondly as junior counsel on my defence team when Neville Wran sued me for defamation - unsuccessfully - back in the rollicking 1980s. His honour knows his way around the traps, you might say, and his demolition of the sexual harassment case against Peter Slipper was a scorcher. The disloyal former staffer James Ashby had plotted with his lawyer and various odds and sods in the Queensland Liberal National Party to ''damage Mr Slipper in the public eye and political arena with any information they could find''. But the case was never just about the former speaker and his scheming political opponent, the former Howard government minister Mal Brough. It was central to Tony Abbott's agenda to destabilise and bring down the Gillard government. Abbott, Christopher ''Poodles'' Pyne, and the would-be attorney-general, the mouthy Queensland senator George Brandis, were in it up to their necks, aided and abetted by a vicious campaign against Slipper in The Daily Telegraph. Now it has blown up in their faces, revealing the conspiracy for what it was. It will be interesting to see who pays Ashby's legal bills, which should run into a hefty six-figure sum. Perhaps Abbott could call for donations to a slush fund like the one he ran when he was trying to destroy Pauline Hanson a few years ago.[/b] http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/no-theory-just-a-real-conspiracy-20121214-2bess.html Well said. The sooner the people realise Abbott spends a great deal of his time scheming, plotting, coming up with ways to bring down opponents like some devious, power-crazed Cardinal or such in bygone days the sooner we'll be rid of his foul stench that is helping to give politics a bad name. It's not surprising Abbott is in bed with the Murdoch empire...and a certain shock jock...they spend an inordinate amount of time scheming, plotting the downfall of opponents...and those who abandon their toxic cause. At times I feel like I'm observing the actions of foul characters time shifted from centuries ago. N'

42 long

15/12/2012The grim feel of shady characters from a Dickens novel. I know what they are doing. I understand why they are doing it, but I am somewhat incredulous of a system that not only tolerates it but sees it as something benign. A world that tolerates this sort of skullduggery is devoid of morality. those whe seek to cover the truth, and trade in deceit, are the most foul. Truth has a special place in a worthy society. Liars need long memories, but the record is there for all to see as has never been the case before. How could Brandis an Abetz be entrusted with justice? More than ever we should be dealing in facts.. nothing less. People who don't understand this must be in denial. I can understand that. I can't see (human nature being what it is), that we will collectively do the right thing, for this stressed planet. Sorry to be pessimistic, but there it is.

Ken

15/12/201242 long - although I said we can't expect the Libs to admit what they've done and that's just politics, I do agree with your view. Politics has always had its seamier side, deals and back-stabbing, and perhaps we will never entirely get rid of that. But the personal attacks have become far too frequent. These are not deals, these are out and out smear campaigns with political intent. There is a crying need, if not for a more moral approach, at least a more ethical approach to politics. We will clearly not get it from the current "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition".

Libbyx33

15/12/2012This is TRULY an epic FAIL for the MSM media in America - So it's the world over, not just pathetic coverage here in OZ, it's everywhere. "The performance of some of the biggest media outlets in the country Friday would be laughable if the story they were covering wasn't so horrific and tragic: Twenty children slaughtered in their classrooms at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut. And for several hours, AP and network and cable TV news misidentified the gunman to millions of readers and viewers as Ryan Lanza. They linked to his Facebook page and ran pictures and information from his account on the air and in print. Except, as hopefully everyone knows by now, it wasn't Ryan Lanza who killed those children. It was his younger brother Adam." http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/z-on-tv-blog/bal-sandy-hook-media-confused-debased-20121214,0,4827210.story What a sad, sad state of affairs. Not just the tragedy that happened - also the tragedy of the media reports.

Tom of Melbourne

15/12/2012Imagine the outrage here, if Abbott had made a written agreement with Wilkie to deliver poker machine reform to defeat Gillard, and then if he’d specifically and deliberately broken the agreement. There would have been vocal and legitimate outrage by the range of ALP supporters here. If Abbott then recruited a disgruntled ALP MP to fill a cushy job in order to avoid the consequences of the dishonesty, the screeching would have been particularly vocal. It would have been a legitimate range of complaints too. But we don’t hear any criticism of Gillard’s dishonesty here, because ...it was Gillard. ------------------------------------ These are the factors that didn’t help Howard- • A strong economy • Politicisation of asylum seekers • Putting partisan interests in front of public responsibilities • A budget surplus • Getting all cosy with a US President • Lowering interest rates There is no reason to suggest that the same factors should rescue Gillard.

42 long

15/12/2012The "kangaroo" court that the LNP have run should now be replaced with the real thing. I (and many others) suggest that what has been attempted here is a CRIME of great significance. What is more significant that trying to get rid of an elected and still lEGAL government by nefarious (Criminal) means? We are not playing little games here. Billions of dollars are at stake and the precedent is large. If it is not appropriate for the current Government to instigate this there must be some other way, because it cannot be passed of as HYPERVENTILATING. That is just adding insult to injury, and If you take a good look there is plenty of injury. It is pompous to describe it in that way. We are dealing with reality . Time to ditch the spin. Abbott has no concern for the welfare of anybody who stands in his way to gain Power. This man has shown a ruthless disregart for the LAW and common decency. He has engineered this and most wear the consequences. He has shamed the nation. This is not a party thing. If labor or anyone behaved this way I would feel the same, and ask for the same process. IF the MSM pretend it is not happening that doesn't mean it didn't happen. JUSTICE!!! Nothing less.....

Ad astra reply

15/12/2012Folks I have just completed reading your comments and links posted since we left for our friend's birthday party. What a great array of fascinating comments. Thank you. I must give the prize to BB for his delectable satire, which illustrates so cleverly how our pathetic media can distort almost any story to suit its political purpose. It's 'silence' over the Slipper/Ashby conspiracy is a classic example.

jaycee

15/12/2012No home, no shelter, no safe harbour for the traitors!

jaycee

15/12/2012It is so weak, so weak..the tears of the traitors..crying over their own demise..tears of pity..for themselves!...pity me! pity me! pity me!.............poor, poor tragic souls... NO MERCY! NO SAFE HARBOUR, NO HOME FOR THE TRAITORS!!

Robynne

15/12/2012Patricia, you have once again pomed the situation with delightfull prose and as a pome lover I do truly delight in every offering. The sight of abbort on the abc(his own personal TV station) tonight was bloody sickening, lauded by all as he lectured the world on the abbort view. Pass me the chuckbucket please.

jaycee

15/12/2012Can there be a lower breed of individual that would seek to deminish the just, the seeker of justice, the preyed upon in this affair. Like a religious official who would seek to diminish or dismiss the crimes against the innoccent. A Judas.. there can be no lower breed...lower than the primordial slime..save perhaps them who come to sites like these seeking audience for their seedy thoughts and theories. nothing lower, nothing more debase, nothing more corrupt nor deformed in their thinking than they!...traitors ..no safe harbour, no home, no refuge.

Wake Up

15/12/2012+ 1 jaycee

MWS

15/12/2012Thanks for the Twitter welcome Janet. I'm just lurking there until I think I've got something to contribute to the conversation (a bit like what I did here).

TalkTurkey

15/12/2012Patricia I see you really have cracked the Rhyme Barrier, all quadrhymatical couplets! But while I agree about the order Slipper brought to the House, but I don't with the call for his return to the Speakership for more reasons than plenty, and it's not going to happen anyway. Anna Burke is doing fine, it empowers women of course but to see her grow into the horrid job the Abborttians have made hers (remember Pyne tongue-poking her?) is an inspiration, and must certainly be intimidating, even more so than infuriating, to the creeps on Their side. Ken I don't know if you have posted before this last few days, but Welcome Comrade, Ad astra welcomes nearly everyone but I'd be surprised if a few didn't slip by him, he has so much call on his time and energy. Our Eye in the Sky Tweety Bird Lyn, probably never misses welcoming anyone - she sure don't miss much - but she is on "holidays" flitting around on Twitter, and you can see, having a great time. So I will just have to do instead. But could you explain please what you mean when you say, [i]I say this as a "Labour man" all my life (and no, that is not a typo - I deliberately include the "u").[/i] So many other Swordsfolks, everyone can't reply to everyone though, so Sorry, but Hi to Libbyx33 Jaycee 42 Long KHTAGH Nasking Jason Pikiranku Granny Anny 2353 Ad astra Himself, plus all I've missed, and lastly to you Robynne, whose understanding of the word [i]prose[/i] I must correct. It means definitively [i]ordinary[/i] language, as distinct from being rhymed and metered - exactly [i]not[/i]-poetry in that sense. I'm not being nasty btw, [i]pas du tout[/i], on the contrary I find it quite funny because most "poets" these days write what [i]is[/i] plainly prose and [i]call[/i] it poetry. And indeed most of them look down their noses at rhyming verse, (but they secretly adore it when it's good.)

TalkTurkey

15/12/2012Folks Do you think it would be kinder of me to let ToM know the truth, that I conscientiously stopped reading his rants many months ago, or to let him go on living in the comfortable but erroneous belief that I do ever read him? Kinder not to tell him, you reckon? OK then I won't. :)

Casablanca

15/12/2012Swordsters, A friend sent this to me and I thought that most of you would chuckle over it too. [quote]One sunny day in late 2013, an old man approached the Lodge, the Canberra residence of Australia's Prime Ministers. He spoke to the guard and said, "I would like to go in and meet with Prime Minister Tony Abbott." The Guard looked at the man and said, "Sir, Mr Abbott was not elected as Prime Minister and does not reside here." The old man said, "Okay," and walked away. The following day the same man approached the The Lodge and said to the same Guard, "I would like to go in and meet with Prime Minister Abbott." The Guard again told the man, "Sir, as I said yesterday, Mr Abbott is not the Prime Minister and does not reside here." The man thanked him and again just walked away. The third day the same man approached the The Lodge and spoke to the very same Guard, saying, "I would like to go in and meet with Prime Minister Abbott." The Guard, understandably agitated at this point, looked at the man and said, "Sir, this is the third day in a row you have been here asking to speak to Mr Abbott. I've told you already that Mr Abbott was not elected as Prime Minister and so does not reside here. Don't you understand?" The old man looked at the Guard and said, "Oh, I understand. I just love hearing you say that Mr Abbott is not our Prime Minister." The Guard snapped to attention, saluted, and said, "See you tomorrow, Sir.[/quote]

Ad astra

15/12/2012Casablanca And so say all of us. Patriciawa Delectable pome. TT No don't upset him - Christmas is in the air!

MWS

16/12/2012Finally a piece in the Fairfax press about Slipper - an exclusive interview with the PM. "PM concerned at emotional toll on Slipper"

TalkTurkey

16/12/2012Casablanca I love it. Now you've gone and made me tell a dirty version. Woman comes to Con da Fruiterer: [i]I want 2Kg of Bananas please[/i]. Con: [i]I'm'a sorry Madam Today we have-a no bananas[/i]. Woman goes away, an hour later she's back: [i]I'd like 2Kg of bananas please.[/i] Con: [i]I'm'a sorry madam, I'm'a told you, we have-a no bananas today![/i] An hour later she's back, [i]May I have 2Kg of bananas please?"[/i] Con points at the signs around the shop: [i]Madam, you look, you see da '[b]Pis[/b]' in '[b]Pistachios[/b]'? [/i] - [i]Yes[/i] . . . [i]And-a Madam, you see da '[b]root[/b]' in da '[b]Beetroot[/b]'?[/i] -[i]Yes[/i] . . . [i]And you see da '[b]#*CK[/b]' in '[b]Bananas[/b]'?[/i] [i]? ... No . . .There is no '#*CK' in 'Bananas!'[/i] . . . . ! :)

KHTAGH

16/12/2012Casablanca I to love it. I'm sorry to disagree with some very wise people here, I think Julia has to come out swinging early in the new yr. Yes it is a way more moral to not do the same as the Lieberals & Mad Monk. Only one trouble if she does that the OM & the Lieberals treat her with contempt. If you look back over the past few yrs its the times when she has got angry & responded to the abuse from the Lieberals that she gets some recognition "Mincing poodle" "misogyny speech" "AWU pressers" etc. She can be strong & forceful without jumping into the gutter she has them on the run & they are praying that it will all blow over before they get back next yr, we can't let this happen this time as TT said earlier. This episode even has the capacity to knobble Turdbull if it is done properly, it puts him in the same muck bucket due to Utegate affair tared with the same shitty brush Mad Monk uses. I really hope she does have a parliamentary inquiry into the Lieberals denigrating our political system into what we have currently. I get the feeling she has finally had a gut-full of the Lieberals foul behavior/scheming, then the OM airbrushing it off the public discussion as soon as they can. Thank dog for the fighting 5th.

TalkTurkey

16/12/2012 Nobody writes like [b]Bushfire Bill ![/b] (lifted from Poll Bludger) Posted Saturday, December 15, 2012 at 2:21 pm | Permalink [b]The story they WISH they could have written….[/b] No shoe malfunction: Gillard Slippers on a banana skin of her own choosing Denise Grattanahan, The Sydney Morning Australian, Friday, July 12th, 2013 ------------------------ TODAY'S bombshell Federal Court judgement in the Ashby case has left the government facing its greatest ever crisis. Mr. Justice Rares has delivered a scathing condemnation of Peter Slipper, saying that he had: "... cynically, and with contempt for Mr Ashby's rights as an employee of the Commonwealth government, sought to (a) Harass and intimidate him to the point of unlawful sexual harassment and, (b) Additionally, by forcing Mr Ashby to witness the commission of serious crimes against the Commonwealth, by way of the misuse of Cabcharge dockets, seriously breach his workplace rights." The government is "in emergency lockdown" this afternoon as the enormity of Mr Justice Rares' comprehensive demolition of theirs and Mr Slipper's cases sinks in. One internal Labor party critic of Julia Gillard said, "This would never have happened if I was still Attorney-General. She's got to go, and this time I think the Caucus will agree." There are unconfirmed reports that Kevin Rudd has boarded an overnight commercial flight in Beijing, for an immediate return to Sydney, and thence Canberra. The crisis comes as the result of a series of inept decisions by the Prime Minister. First came the appointment of Peter Slipper to the Speakership of the House of Representative. The second blunder was Gillard's now infamous "Misogyny Speech", seen at last in its proper context: that of a desperate but ultimately doomed to divert public attention away from the tainted Speaker's character, and not the clarion call to to women of all ages that so-called "social media" made it out to be. The third, unforced, error was from Attorney-General Nicola Roxon, a Gillard "favourite", whose position on the front bench must now be under an ominous cloud for not settling this disastrous case when she had the opportunity to not only save taxpayers'money, but to extricate the government from the catastrophic predicament in which it now finds itself. At one stage there was a feeble attempt to have this case adjudged to be an "abuse of process", an arcane legal principle that is rarely applied, and in this case was contemptuously and summarily dismissed by Justice Rares last year. In what now is seen by legal experts as a "desperate ploy", both the Gillard government and Mr Slipper sought to have the Ashby case dismissed on the obviously ridiculous and hopeless ground that Ashby's complaint was merely a publicity stunt, a conspiracy between himself and members of the Liberal Party, designed to embarrass Slipper and bring down the government. Senator George Brandis, SC, and, if the polls are to believed, slated to be next Attorney-General, had already told a Senate committee hearing that he would "under no circumstances" advise any client of his own to pursue the "abuse of process" ploy. His retrospectively wise advice was dismissed by an over-confident Nicola Roxon as the product of "a fevered mind" and a "known dickhead". A beleaguered Ms Gillard has, this afternoon, brushed aside Press Gallery reporters and refused to answer any of their questions, as she moved to attend today's crisis Cabinet meeting, under way as this analysis is being written. Joel Fitzgibbon, one of the few senior Labor members prepared to speak on the record, has told the Sydney Morning Australian, "The Prime Minister will be gone before the day is out." A spokesman for the Australian Homosexual, Taxpayers', Small Business And Retired Radio Presenters' Harassment Lobby, a body incorporated only yesterday, has condemned "the government's anti-gay, anti-lesbian, anti-shock-jock agenda", and has promised a national Day Of Pink shame on the lawns of Parliament House before the week is out. Whatever the outcome of the Cabinet meeting, one thing is certain: the media, heavily criticised by the government and in particular by Ms Gillard herself over this matter, has shown that a vital 4th estate, prepared to delve into such matters of national importance, is more than ever necessary in the face of patent government spin and the politicisation of the highest Constitutional office of the Federal Parliament. The rampantly left wing agenda of social media - consisting mainly of a web site called "Twitter" and various left-leaning blogs - as exposed in a series of hard-hitting articles by Peter Hartcher-Henderson in this newspaper late last year, has been shown to be somewhat lacking in objectivity by so slavishly following the "Gillard line" on the Ashby case. The days of "He-Said/She-Said" are over. Mr Justice Rares damning judgement is no matter of opinion. He has heard all the evidence over a period of fifteen long months and has come to an eviscerating conclusion that has the force of the law. The law, as Ms Gillard seems to be about to discover, is no laughing matter, and accusations that the media has been "hyperventilating" on this disgraceful affair have been shown to be as shallow and inept as her bumbling government. For the good of the Labor Party, and for the good of the nation, Julia Gillard has no option other than to resign, and resign before this day is done.

Ken

16/12/2012Talk Turkey - thanks for the welcome. I have only joined in here in the past couple of weeks. Your question about my use of "Labour man" - I like using that because after all the Labor party arose from the labour movement. It recognises that historical fact, and emphasises my own political views which also arise from and focus on "labour" rather then just "Labor". Someone else may be able to tell me why the party that arose from the labour movement became the Labor party - why did the "u" disappear?

jaycee

16/12/2012You know..If I know anything about female tactics that I have SEEN..(a male never "learns" woman's tactics ; they change so swiftly!)..Julia Gillard will "baste the turkey's"; ie. the LNP. over christmas..and serve them up as a cold-collation next year! I'll tell you a little tale I heard of such tactics many years ago about a woman who discovered her husband was having an affair with his secretary at work..."she took him aside" and quietly informed him of her knowledge and suggested he finish the affair and they get back to their ordinary life...he promised, but he didn't finish it...she once again confronted him quietly..and this is where she cut off his "cajones".. "Alright" she said "You can have your little coquette..but I will have mine too!...the difference is..(now watch this bit!!)..I don't have to leave the house." He very quickly buckled under! In other words, any serviceman, any tradesman that comes to do repairs or anything, could theoretically be fair game!....Oh!, the doubt that would engender in the male mind!! Julia Gillard now has enough acumulated evidence to "drop a plum" into the parliament at her choosing to throw the discussion into disarray at her pleasing...the doubt that must generate in the oppositions confrontationalist tactics. Personally, I'd like to see the PM. skew the bast*rds! but that is not politics and the PM. is so much more of a genteel nature than yours truly!

Ad astra

16/12/2012Folks I’ve just spoken with Talk Turkey and have read your comments KHTAGH and jaycee about the tactics that Julia Gillard ought to employ regarding the Ashby/Slipper matter. This scandal eclipses any other that we have seen for decades. The actions of Ashby and Brough, and all those who knew what they were up to, could be categorized as seditious. I use the term ‘sedition’ rather than ‘treason’ because it better fits the definition: [i]”In law, sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority to tend toward insurrection against the established order.”[/i] Wikipedia further says: [i]”Sedition is the stirring up of rebellion against the government in power. Treason is the violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or state, giving aid to enemies, or levying war against one's state. Sedition is encouraging one's fellow citizens to rebel against their state, whereas treason is actually betraying one's country by aiding and abetting another state.”[/i] In my view, we have witnessed an act of sedition. The words of Justice Rares seem to establish that. Yet, the MSM, which made such a strident case of the Ashby/Slipper matter when it began, is now almost mute. TT tells me that the Twitter feed is suggesting than an edict has gone out within the MSM to bury the story. The Front Pages bear witness to the plausibility of that suggestion. The timing of the Rares judgement, close to the end-of-the-year turmoil, means that there will likely be little interest among the voters who will first be busy with Christmas, and then overcome by the annual post-Christmas torpor. Attempting to escalate an inquiry into the matter over this period would likely be fruitless. Yet, it must not be allowed to fade away. An attempt to unseat a democratically elected Government is far too serious a matter to let evaporate, with the perpetrators escaping scrutiny and avoiding the political consequences of what I believe is a seditious act. I find myself in line with KHTAGH, jaycee and TT. This matter must not be allowed to be airbrushed away by the MSM, as seems its intent. By coming out so strongly in her last pre-Christmas interview before taking a two week break, Julia Gillard has given notice that this matter has a long way to run, or to use the MSM’s preferred mantra, ‘there are many questions still to be answered’. She has challenged Tony Abbott to come out from behind his ‘fudge’ words, and has invited Mal Brough to use her Press Conference facility to answer ALL the questions the Canberra Press Gallery has about his involvement in the affair, at first denied, but later admitted. Her demeanour throughout that interview gave me the impression that she was not going to let this matter rest, but rather was determined to dangle before the eyes of the Coalition the possibility of a formal inquiry into the matter in due course. Realizing that nothing much could be instituted until next year, she has left the Coalition in an indeterminate state of uncertainty, and I imagine considerable apprehension about what might eventuate in 2013, where it may have cause to genuinely ‘hyperventilate’ as the sordid details are uncovered. So, folks, I believe that as far as PM Gillard is concerned, this matter has only just begun. How then do we in the Fifth Estate, and here on [i]TPS[/i] manage the next few weeks? My view is that comments will simmer along in Fifth Estate blogs and on Twitter over the coming weeks. [b][i]TPS[/i] can contribute via comments of the folk who visit here. I invite you to use [i]TPS[/i] over the coming weeks to post comments that remind all who visit here that the Ashby/Brough/Abbott pot continues to simmer, and that next year the heat will be turned up by the Government and the Fifth Estate until the pot boils over and burns all those near it.[/b] I feel that this is not the time for a major piece on the subject on [i]TPS[/i], as its impact would likely be lost, or at least muted. In my view, it would be better to gather the evidence, draft some argument, and finalize a piece over the coming weeks, with a view to launching it when we begin again next year. I trust you are in accord with this strategy and will contribute enough heat with your comments to keep the pot boiling in the meantime.

Casablanca

16/12/2012AA, Agree wholeheartedly. Also, the PM has a rapier wit which she could employ more often and to great effect. I recently looked again at the Red Cross address when the PM said that she was present because she was 'Red' and Abbott was there because he is 'always Cross'. He scowled and then looked uncomfortable. He didn't like being made fun of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oYxvAuAkK8

DMW

16/12/2012Ken @ 9:00 AM [i]Someone else may be able to tell me why the party that arose from the labour movement became the Labor party - why did the "u" disappear?[/i] From rough memory it is down to King O'Malley. O'Malley was a colourful character who was born somewhere in the Americas, he claimed he was born in Quebec I think, but, it was more likely he was born in Kansas. Among many other things O'Malley, as Minister for Home Affairs, was responsible for, or had heavy influence on, choosing the site of Canberra as the National Capital.

Ken

16/12/2012thanks DMW. I know a fair bit about O'Malley and his role in Canberra but his influence on the spelling of the party name is new to me.

DMW

16/12/2012Hi Swordsfolk, you probably know the old joke about putting four economists in a room and they will come out with at least five opinions. This would most likely apply to lawyers as well. With regard to the 'Slippergate' Affair suggesting that some should be charged with sedition may be a little off the mark. I will take the 'learned' opinion of Sarah Joseph from Castan Centre for Human Rights Law as a very good guide. Sarah Joseph ‏@profsarahj @GayCarBoys I went through this yesterday so not doing so again. It's not "sedition". But it's serious. You could delve into @profsarahj timeline here https://twitter.com/profsarahj to get a better picture.

Tom of Melbourne

16/12/2012Here are a couple of other issues that decent people might be concerned about. [b]1. Asylum Seekers[/b] We have a government that made significant political capital out of this issue. They condemned off shore processing, calling it inhumane. This government has now introduced the most unethical and outrageous policy in the nation’s history. It is a policy premised on locking up innocent people indefinitely, it is a policy that (when applied as intended) it is harmful to the physical and mental health of people. This cruel policy has now been found to be in breach of our international obligations. Is there any criticism of this policy here? [b]2. Breaking Written Agreement[/b] We have a Prime Minister who entered into an unconditional written agreement with an independent MP to deliver reform. It was a contract. The Prime Minister was either dishonest in making the agreement (when she could not guarantee its delivery) or she was dishonest in breaking the agreement. She then made a further sleazy deal with a proven rorter to avoid the consequences of her action. If the opposition had won and then retained office on this basis, the screeching would be unrelenting. Is there any criticism of Gillard’s actions here?

LadyInRed

16/12/2012AA I agree with your strategy on the Slipper/Ashby afair wholeheartedly. This cannot be allowed to rest. Imagine if the PM had said to journo's anyone who doesn't believe me "can go to hell" as Hockey did the other day? It wold have been all over the fornt page of every newspaper in Australia. But Hockey says it and ......nothing. It looks like they are leaving Ashby out to dry as well. But can they safely do that? Afterall he has no scruples. And I think Brough has Abbott over a barrell, Brough has proven he will do anything to get back onto the front bench, I bet Abbott can't get rid of him or Brough might just squeal. I suspect an 'agreement' might have been made (I had gentleman's agreement written down but I couldn't leave it there because Brough and TAbbott and the word gentleman just don't sit well together).

DMW

16/12/2012I have been attempting to write a fuller comment on a sensible response to Justice Rares considered judgement but other lives and the end of year rush has overwhelmed me. In a nutshell the answer lies in Senator Faulkners speech to the [i]Integrity In Government Conference[i] http://www.senatorjohnfaulkner.com.au/file.php?file=/news/QCRMVHXKFO/index.html The whole speech is long and wide ranging and probably needs at least two glasses of fine red on standby to get through the whole thing :) Basically there is now, more than ever, an urgent need [i]to pursue the introduction of a Code of Conduct for Members of Federal Parliament.[/i] Also: [i]We need a Joint Select Committee to inquire into the issue of a code conduct for Members and Senators and into the establishment of a Parliamentary Integrity Commissioner.[/i] The goings on around Slippergate (or it really Ashbygate?) would have to be a walk up start for investigation by a Parliamentary Integrity Commissioner. Peoples energies may be better directed towards those ends. Oh well the traps are issuing their siren call so it is back on the road I must go.

DMW

16/12/2012damn mixed up my [ i ]'s & [ /i ]'s In a nutshell the answer lies in Senator Faulkners speech to the [i]Integrity In Government Conference[/i] http://www.senatorjohnfaulkner.com.au/file.php?file=/news/QCRMVHXKFO/index.html The whole speech is long and wide ranging and probably needs at least two glasses of fine red on standby to get through the whole thing :) Basically there is now more than ever an urgent need [i]to pursue the introduction of a Code of Conduct for Members of Federal Parliament.[/i] Also: [i]We need a Joint Select Committee to inquire into the issue of a code conduct for Members and Senators and into the establishment of a Parliamentary Integrity Commissioner.[/i]

Ken

16/12/2012Ad, I agree that the PM has looked quite strong in recent interviews but she still has to handle this very carefully. The danger in any situation like this is to avoid getting dragged down to the same level. I think it may be all right for one or two backbenchers or Ministers to go in hard, but the PM almost needs to remain one step removed, otherwise she may also suffer political damage. I think the ALP handled the allegations against the PM about he so-called "slush fund" quite well in the sense that, although Abbott let others lead the questioning, the Government eventually forced a debate where Abbott had to step forward. The PM has to be careful that she is not forced into that situation re AShby. Similarly the timing of any inquiry is delicate. In one sense, an inquiry that reported only a month or two before an election could have an impact but could also backfire and be seen as nothing but a "political ploy". The other aspect of an inquiry is that there need to be solid grounds for it that can be explained and understood by the broader electorate or, again, it may be seen as purely political. The electorate is cynical of politics at the present time and the Libs have fallen right into that with their emphasis on pursuing individuals. The PM and the ALP need to be careful not to fall into the same trap. (Of course, the lack of reporting by the MSM is diminishing the impact this should be having in an already cynical electorate.) While I agree there are elements of sedition in what has taken place, I genuinely doubt you could sell that to the electorate. So timing and the basis of an inquiry are vital considerations that will take serious consideration to avoid self-inflicted damage. And the Labor Party has the ongoing problem of the corruption inquiry in NSW. They would need that to be out of the way early in 2013 so they have some breathing space before the election. I have little doubt that during the election the Libs will remind voters in NSW that Obeid and MacDonald were Labor Party members. The ALP may need to remind voters of Utegate and Ashby. The trifecta will be if Thomson is cleared. It then fits the old adage that "once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, but three times is becoming a pattern" and people may well see that. Yes, there is a need to keep it simmering. I agree that it has almost come at a good time, during the summer recess. That leaves two months before it moves back onto the mainstream political agenda which will suit the Government - they can't be accused of delaying any inquiry (or even pursuing it) just for political purposes. In the absence of proper MSM coverage, yes, there is a need for the Fifth Estate to keep the pot simmering. Although, has been noted elsewhere, there are signs that, at least, some sections of the MSM are starting to question Abbott's approach a little more critically. Continued pressure from the Fifth Estate may help increase the number!

DMW

16/12/2012Oh, and just a little aside. I have considerable criticism of the governments' asylum seeker policy which I have aired here. Some have agreed with some of those criticisms. There will no doubt come a time when we go through some of the big problems with the policy but not this week.

2353

16/12/2012The Sunday Mail (Brisvegas version) actually has a couple of mentions about the judgement against Ashby today. The subtext being that even though Slipper was judged not to have a case to answer - we all know he was guilty. Maybe the realisation has hit that as this isn't going away anytime soon, it's time to play blame avoidance. I actually complained tot he Brisbane Times regarding their lack of coverage yesterday. Wonder if I'll get a reply?

Tom of Melbourne

16/12/2012DMW , the point is that there are very few here that are entitled to take the moral high ground on political ethics or policy integrity.

2353

16/12/2012DMW - agreed, there does need to be a debate on the matters you raise @ 12.41. The irony here is that someone who admits to never formally voting is commenting on others morals, ethics and integrity.

jaycee

16/12/2012The ABC. has to be cleaned out of Howard sympathisers. If the national broadcaster goes dumb on this issue, it will have broken its' terms of contract surely and the minister can move to dismiss the relevant people. The ABC. will be vital to deliver accurate reporting on policy by ALL parties next year. Mark Scott..being a "fellow traveller" with the LNP. cannot be trusted to do an honest job of coverage. His sworn alliegences are with the party of traitors to the Parliament and he should be stood down from his position. All journalists who choose to stay employed with the most notorious of the MSM. are now indellibly branded with their "ink of collusion". I have NO sympathy with any person who with free choice chooses to align themselves with those of criminal intent...you make your bed... I think the fifth estate can do their bit by continual harrassment of those who seek to destroy our democracy. I received a "form letter" email from Malcolm Turnbull, which I returned with the question ; "how does it sit being a member of a political party that chooses treason as its' main platform for electrol success?" I implore others to do the same wherever and whenever!

Michael

16/12/2012Bad Abbott It will come as little surprise to most here that Tony Abbott's recent speech at Oxford University is largely tosh, and manifestly self-serving nonsense. http://www.liberal.org.au/latest-news/2012/12/15/tony-abbott-transcript-address-queens-college-oxford-uk It is my understanding that a speech, or an essay, should conclude in such a manner as to deliver in preçis form the 'message' of all that has come before it. If that is so, what do you make of these final sentences in Abbott's speech? "To study at one of the world’s greatest universities is an extraordinary privilege. Our duty is not to rejoice in our good fortune but to be worthy of it. That way we will “earn this” and ensure that others are grateful rather than resentful at our chance to enjoy this enchanted place." Precisely why should anyone else be "grateful" that Tony Abbott should have spent time at Oxford University? Could it possibly be that in the 'class warfare' frame of mind that underpins so much of the man's thinking and utterances he is actually suggesting that those less fortunate or advantaged should simply accept as our lot that others are born to rule? Such as he, for example? That we will be enhanced as people and the followers of him as Prime Minister should he lead this country simply because we are not resentful but gratefully recognising our place as the led, the necessarily guided, those who must defer to the advantaged as a matter of course? Pigs arse!

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

16/12/2012 Just on the concept and definition of sedition: found the 2006 Overview of proposed changes to Australia's sedition law. This is a 2006 document. Don't know if the changes went through or whether any others have been made in the last 6 years. The following suggest that the emphasis in Australian law is on an 'urging to violence', which may be the one ingredient missing from what has been occurring. This may be why DMW's Prof Sarah Weston said so categorically that it is not sedition. [i][b]What do these amendments do?[/b] The proposed amendments make the following changes to the sedition laws: [b]Change the name of the offences from ‘Sedition’ to ‘Urging violence” [/b] The title of the offences will be changed from ‘Sedition’ to ‘Urging violence’. The offence of ‘sedition’ has always dealt with urging violence against Australia’s community groups and institutions of Government. The change of name provides a plain English explanation of this offence. [b]Clarify intention to urge the use of force or violence[/b] The amendments will make it clear that, in order to commit an offence of urging violence, a person must intentionally urge the use of force or violence. This does not amend the offence, but simply clariies that the urging of force or violence must be intentional. Include an additional requirement: intention that the force or violence will occur As well as clarifying that a person must intend to urge the use of force or violence, the amendments will require that a person must intend that the force or violence will occur. This provides an additional safeguard by requiring that the offence of urging violence will only be committed where a person: • intends to urge the use of force or violence, and • intends that the force or violence will actually occur.[/i] http://arts.gov.au/sites/default/files/pdfs/sedition-laws.pdf If it isnt sedition I wish it were! And if it isn't, then DMW, how about you/me get back to Prof Sarah and ask her what Australian laws might be called into effect when an opposition tries to secure the fall of a government via a series of conspiratorial acts?

Ad astra

16/12/2012Folks Thank you for your helpful comments. I imagine DMW that there will be much academic debate about whether ‘sedition’, or for that matter ‘treason’, are appropriate terms, or whether there is some better term that describes an attempt, covert thought it may have been, to change an elected government. While this debate rages, the matter is before the public eye, which would be to the Coalition’s disadvantage. Care needs to be taken in developing a strategy to expose the involvement of Brough, Abbott and Co. Perhaps the best initial approach would be to simply dangle the possibility of an inquiry in front of Abbott and the Coalition over the summer break, all the time inviting the Coalition players to play their hands, to reveal their involvement, even if that amounts to vehement denial as in the case of Joe Hockey. The Coalition has discovered the political value of continually asking questions and no matter how often answers are given, insisting that ‘there are more questions still to be answered’. Labor too can play that game. I doubt if PM Gillard will rush to an inquiry, as it may be as useful politically to just keep asking questions, keep on pressing for answers at a press conference, and dismissing Abbott’s answers as he dismissed hers over the S&G matter. She now has the whip handle and can flick Abbott’s backside as her did hers for months. Of course, the media will paint any effort the PM makes to uncover the truth in adverse terms (so beautifully illustrated by BB in his satirical newspaper item by Denise Grattanahan in ‘The Sydney Morning Australian’ posted above at 8.37 AM). But if she plays her hand carefully, she should be able to draw the attention of the electorate, in a just-so-innocent way, to the nefarious conduct of several members of the LNP in this matter. Slowly, slowly, catchee Monkey, as it were.

MWS

16/12/2012Read this if you are in need of a good laugh: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/16/workshy-aristos-costing-us-billions

Ad astra

16/12/2012Michael 'Tosh' is such a polite word. I have an alternative in the next piece. Janet Whatever the term that is used to describe Coalition actions and words, the more we debate it, the more the conspiratorial behaviour of the Coalition is in the public eye. The object is not to so much to 'convict' anyone of a punishable offence, as it is to expose the subterranean workings of the Coalition and its fellow-travellers for the electorate to see what they would get with an Abbott government. jaycee Who could disagree with your comment: [i]"I think the fifth estate can do their bit by continual harrassment of those who seek to destroy our democracy."[/i] That's what we are about. Folks We’re now getting on the road back to the south coast. I’ll be back tomorrow.

Pikiranku

16/12/2012I'm developing an unshakeable faith in Julia Gillard's ability to handle this lot. Since she took on this job she's steadily grown in stature and confidence so that now she just walks all over them. As Jaycee so aptly put it: 'Over Christmas she'll baste the turkeys and then she'll serve them up as a cold collation in the New Year'. Spot on, Jaycee! I can't wait!

Christine H

16/12/2012Hi Swordsters did anyone watch the Anthony Albanese interview with Peter Van Onselen on Sky News this morning and the panel chat afterwards with Cheryl Kernot, Dr Geoff Gallop, John Hewson and Peter Debnam? The interesting development in the Ashby/Slippergate story is the admission today by Warren Entsch that he was aware of the sexual abuse allegations by Ashby before it became public knowlege via media reporting. Peter Van Onselen persisently questioned and attempted to try and draw out Mr Albanese over when and if the government would have an inquiry into the Slipper/Ashby matter. Mr Albanese quite rightly refused to be cornered and insisted that the government would carefully consider the matter before making a decision. This link below is one of the few news stories that discuss this development today, nothing on ABC or at Fairfax so far. http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/12/16/Entsch_admission_extraordinary-_Albanese_827045.html This story is growing legs no matter how much the MSM are trying to avoid it.

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

16/12/2012 Hi Ad, I do agree with all your words and wisdoms about the road the fifth estate and the Gillard Government might take in the next little while. It's just that ... well I really have my mad on at the moment and lean, even if only metaphorically, towards hanging, drawing and just a bit of quartering. I shall try to ommmmmm more often :-). Cheers

jaycee

16/12/2012The shoe is on the other foot now as the social media keep the Ashby affair as a talking point. True, the MSM. are doing their damnest to squash it, but it cannot go away while there are damming questions for Mr. Rabbott to answer! The entire cabal of conspiritors are trying to smile while on a drip-feed of sh!t sandwiches!

MWS

16/12/2012I missed this article when it was posted, but I think it needs a wider audience: http://kingstribune.com/index.php/magazines/june-2012/item/1516-the-great-unhinging-revisited [i]The Great Unhinging Revisited[/i] by Possum Comitatus (Scott Steele)

BSA Bob

16/12/2012Hi T.T.!! Yes, Denise Grattanahan sure can write. I've nothing particularly original to offer in this, but agree with those who point out this is probably better described as an "antiWatergate" as in this case the media is complicit in the coverup. I like to prattle on about the "Perpetual Present" & there can't be a better example than this. Less than a month ago the media was all over alleged 20 year old events & now ignores this. Oblivious, or at least seeming to be, of the contradiction. A case, I fear of their having nailed their colours to the mast. It also seems to highlight the widening gap between the 4th & 5th estates.

uriah

16/12/2012Ad@3.09pm-Agreed,softly softly catchee monkey.Fret not swordsters PM Gillard is patient and will draw the MSM out of their denial,whilst letting the coalition sweat over Xmas and the NY.Abbott has made a fatal tactical error and has given the PM huge leverage. The little black ants will eat up the giraffe.

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

16/12/2012 MWS. Thank you for the King's Tribune article - a beauty. Forgive me for a tiny but bold suggestion. One of the ways to get going on Twitter is to post such a link, with a little comment that it's worth a look. That way you don't have to come up with 'contributing comments' 'til you are ready. Lyn has been 'coaching' me, you see, and well, she's the master/mistress of Twitter networking :-). Give it a go? Cheers

Patriciawa

16/12/2012Talk Turkey - I'm not sure what [i]quadrhymatical couplets[/i] are but I hope they're something good! I agree with you that Anna Burke, our present Speaker, is doing a great job, but that pome wrote itself. You know what happens then. Somehow it seemed, from the response I've had to it, that many other people thought that Peter Slipper deserved credit for at least that job well done. As well, like the PM, I think he deserves a break. Someone suggested I send him a copy of the pome which I have done. I hope he gets to read it and has a cause to smile. What a pity it all came undone at this late stage in his life when he'd found a job a really enjoyed and could do well.

Gravel

16/12/2012I hope you are all right, I do hope that our trust in Julia and her methods are going to work. It is so scary that Abbott and his cohorts would get away with this. Ad Astra I look forward to your next output on this Abbott/Ashby and all those involved. I know we have to wait until the festive season has passed. I think it does give Julia and Labor a good chance to get specialist advice and have a good tactical team set up to ensure that it will not just die away without resolution. Australia needs to have this resolved so that no one else can ever try this again. I see the horror of events overseas and don't want my children or grandchildren to have to live in fear of their own government in the future.

TalkTurkey

16/12/2012Oh COMRADES! The writing here today is giving me rushes, like, Man, you know, shivers up and down my spine?! KHTAGH Thank Dog for the Fighting 5th Indeed! :) FAR Ken OUT, you are so spot-on SHREWD! I agree with every point you make, timing, strategy, [i]traps[/i] . . . You will not be allowed to escape the Circle of the Sword now, never! AFA Labor/Labour is concerned I must refresh my memory on the history, one thing though, the Australian Labor Party has made the shorter spelling respected everywhere, I now prefer it to its fat forebear. [i]I wish I could respond to everybody's post, but I keep forgetting the stream of them . . . [/i] LiR We seem to be in general and passionate agreement with Ad astra's projected path over the next weeks, jaycee Casablanca and Pikiranku, we are all convinced by *J*U*L*I*A* now eh! Isn't she something! I too Piki have great faith that she will not merely outclass the Opposition in the coming months but make them rue the day they chose Sedition as their main strategy for unseating the Government. Sedition?! Of course it's sedition! I think I was the first one to start using the word of the Abborttians, some few months ago, it has taken a while but it is now starting to gain traction, as 'misogyny' did after Her speech. I'll be pushing it because that's what it is, exactly. Here's Collins on the meaning of Sedition: 1. Speech or behaviour directed against the peace of a State; 2. An offence that tends to undermine the authority of a state; 3. An incitement to public disorder; 4.(archaic) Revolt. What is there to argue about? And Christine H I didn't see the PvO/Albo i/view but I would have played the same hand, good on him, let the Media do their worst, if they turn stuff up well and good, if not the doubts will be such that Labor will be "forced" to hold a quick enquiry early in the year. In the meantime Swordsfolks let us keep honing our blades and practising our skills, I do think the Fighting 5th Estate is going to be critical to the outcome next year. I always have thought so, now I am convinced.

TalkTurkey

16/12/2012You might argue with Definition #4 of Sedition: Revolt. Well have the Abborttians been revolting or what?!

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

16/12/2012 Oh passionate TT: on sedition. Under Australian law, it's not sedition. That's the point. Under...curre...Australian law. Under every feeling for all that is right and just anyone has on this blog, it's bl**dy well sedition! But mon ami, there IS a difference. :-)

42 long

16/12/2012Most of them are revolting. Is that good enough? The difference in the way the MSM run stories when the beneficiaries change. They are so crass. They still keep saying that Labor can't get it's message out! All the achievements they have made. Well what's the bloody reason for that? The bias of the MSM. They also say that discerning people can work out what is really happening. Well give it a break! Why do Jones and the shocker jocks spend all their efforts trying to defame Gillard if people can see through it? If repeating innane advertising slogans similarly don't do anything why do people pay so much for the advertising? If you believe that kind of baloney you really ARE stupid. The LieNP do use exactly the same terms at exactly the same time. Of course it's rehearsed. Same with "specific" knowledge which is used in the legal sense and should draw the crabs whenever it is used. Same as run the line ' If Slipper has been treated badly Julia should re-instate him as speaker. again although the law has nothing for him to answer at this time and the LieNP DO have PLENTY to answer for. They know that they have done a job on Slipper of effective character assination. Same as they have tried to do on Thomson. Stinking Abbott brought that up again,yesterday. The person is a creep. NO principles at all.

uriah

16/12/2012Regarding the Abbott press release timing lie , as pointed out by Sortius I would imagine that this must be a point of some discussion within the IT community.There must be many IT magazines,newsletters and blogspots where we could follow this discussion.Does anyone know of some? Bring on the geeks!!

DMW

16/12/2012jaycee 1:54 PM please take this as a helpful hint. Could you please put a break (that is hit the enter key twice) at the end of each paragraph as it will make your comments more readable to old f@rts like me :) Have a look at the difference it makes to your comment then: The ABC. has to be cleaned out of Howard sympathisers. If the national broadcaster goes dumb on this issue, it will have broken its' terms of contract surely and the minister can move to dismiss the relevant people. The ABC. will be vital to deliver accurate reporting on policy by ALL parties next year. Mark Scott..being a "fellow traveller" with the LNP. cannot be trusted to do an honest job of coverage. His sworn alliegences are with the party of traitors to the Parliament and he should be stood down from his position. All journalists who choose to stay employed with the most notorious of the MSM. are now indellibly branded with their "ink of collusion". I have NO sympathy with any person who with free choice chooses to align themselves with those of criminal intent...you make your bed... I think the fifth estate can do their bit by continual harrassment of those who seek to destroy our democracy. I received a "form letter" email from Malcolm Turnbull, which I returned with the question ; "how does it sit being a member of a political party that chooses treason as its' main platform for electrol success?" I implore others to do the same wherever and whenever! Thanks in anticipation of being able to read your fine comments without getting a headache from being overwhelmed by the 'tightness' of the presentation :)

Robynne

16/12/2012Jeez, talk turkey!! I was trying to compliment patriciawa on her latest effort. I am deeply offended by the way that you have derided me in my misuse of the word 'prose'. That you have singled me out to have a go has deeply upset me, given that the numerous other misuse and misspelling has never caught your attention. I wonder why it is me that you have decided is the only idiot in this village. I am on your side in the effort to stop abbott becoming PM, but perhaps my efforts and commentary would be better spent in another place where my misuse of a particular word would be ignored if the general comment was understood.

Pikiranku

16/12/2012So, Janet, if Australian law has redefined 'sedition', does that mean that only attempts which use physical force to overthrow a government are an offence in this country? That doing it by devious, underhand means including abuse of the justice system, are okay? Who thought that up?

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

16/12/2012 Hi Pikiranku, Am no lawyer. Just dug up a few aspects of the current law. It does seem that there's no 'legal' action that can be taken in this current situation other than e.g. Slipper suing for defamation or gettiong Brough on maybe perjury ... An inquiry or royal commission are 'legal directions' that may have authority to 'uncover' and reveal, also. Sedition law has been around for as long as Federation (and way before as it is based on British law), but with changes. Last changes (see the link to PDF above) were, you guessed it, Howard's. I was just curious to see what legal recourse the Government has in this situation. Not a lot seems to be the answer thus far, but both Ad Astra and TT are arguing for something much more effective than trying to charge someone - that pressure and revelation from the fifth estate and the government on those involved in any conspiracy will have the required effect on the electorate - and the LNP will (hopefully dramatically) lose votes. Hope this clarifies, and cheers.

Shirley

16/12/2012A very emotive and well written wrap of the players in the conspiracy. It also adds to the discussions here on sedition. I agree sedition seems the right description. "[quote][/quote][b]In many places, these sorts of actions are called sedition. In Australia, it’s called “The LNP’s right to rule”.[/b] It is extremely frightening for our nation that the mainstream media continue to refuse to investigate this issue ­— and to tell the Australian people the full truth. It is time we asked — why won’t they?" Ashbygate and the Born to Rule Brigadehttp://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/ashbygate-and-the-born-to-rule-brigade/[u][/u][b][/b] The other story worth following is Harmers, somewhere down the track there has to be accountability for this business model. A well thought out and planned inquiry is needed but I feel enough rope will be given for the guilty parties to hang themselves a bit more.

Ad astra reply

16/12/2012Folks I’m back at the south coast and could not resist saying thank you for your many thoughtful comments, so firm, so strong, so confident, so bolshie. Together, we in the Fifth Estate can keep this tawdry affair simmering in the public mind until next year when we can turn up the heat until the cauldron of Coalition malfeasance boils over, scalding all in its path. The more the MSM tries to quell the fire, the more we will fan the flames. Robynne We need and want you here. You are a valued member of the [i]TPS[/i] family, and your contributions are respected. Please stay with us. Shirley The IA article was a repository of important information. More will emerge day after day until it engulfs the Coalition and its leader.

DMW

16/12/2012Swordsters, if we can accept that the definition, or more appropriately the current usage, of the word misogyny has changed such that the PM's speech was an accurate and appropriate usage of that word then surely it would be reasonable to accept that the definition of sedition may have moved as well. While I can understand the passion that causes a cry that the actions around 'Ashbygate' are seditious we have to remember we are dealing with the law as it stands and the definitions that parliament has imposed. There may well be arguments in the higher echelons of legal circles around the 'intentions' of the parliament when such changes were made we are basically stuck with what the law is at this time not definitions from the 18th or the 24th centuries. There is a (mostly) time honoured principle that legislation should not be retrospective and also not 'bind' future parliaments to certain actions however that can be gotten around when an intention to take action has been 'telegraphed'. Legislation implementing a Code of Conduct for Parliamentary Representatives and possibly a Parliamentary Integrity Commissioner could come under the category of having been 'telegraphed' as, as a part of the agreement with the independents there were specific references to such matters. Played the right way the government has the whip hand and by either introducing legislation, or establishing a Joint House Committee with a short reporting period will put the opposition between a rock and a hard place. Any attempt to oppose implementation of rules for greater transparency and integrity of the workings of parliament and the behaviour of our elected representatives would blow up in their face. There is a golden opportunity for the government to take action that will give the public at large a greater 'confidence' in the workings of government and 'screw' the opposition at the same time. This is one of those rare moments when I may well endorse the introduction of legislation for partisan political purposes as if it is done well it could 'improve' democracy as we practice it and give Mr Abbott and his fellow travellers the thrill of the big sword up the backside.

TalkTurkey

16/12/2012Robynne What a horrid misconstruction of my intentions you have placed on what was my friendly respectful correction of your misuse of a word. I doubt that there is another reader here who would think your response to be in the slightest indicated. (Is there? Anyone? Please speak up now..?) That you have taken such offence saddens me but I have no intention of saying sorry because I had no intention to offend. May I suggest that you reread what I said, giving full credence to my assurance that I was not being nasty, as you seem to have disbelieved. My intent of course was to disabuse you (not abuse you) of a completely 180-degree wrong use of a word. If indeed you love "pomes" then I would assume you like appropriate use of language, and I would count myself lesser as a friend and as an English teacher if I didn't do that. Anyway take it any way you will, just don't try to tell me I said anything ill-willed to you.

TalkTurkey

16/12/2012BTW Robynne ! If ANYONE had made the same error as you, be it Ad astra himself, or *J*U*L*I*A* ftm, I would do the same thing, and everybody on TPS knows that. NOT to pull rank, NOT for one-upsmanship, but in a spirit of pure educative friendship. It's like telling a friend his fly is undone before it causes any more embarrassment. Our PM copped heaps for pronouncing Hyperbole as Hyperbowl. But whoever told her the correct pronunciation was doing her a favour. I think it a pity you can't see my offering in similar light.

TalkTurkey

16/12/2012Folks, I know the Devil quotes Scripture for his own . . . And I was among the first to argue that a dictionary definition of [i]misogyny[/i] as nothing but [i]hatred or fear [/i]of women was nonsense, I always claimed it was [i]contempt[/i] for women rather, treating women as lesser beings, and I do not resile from that, and indeed, belatedly, dictionary definitions have now acknowledged that. Now, in an apparent reverse, I say that the dictionary definition of [i]sedition[/i] is the correct one, not the narrow construction imposed by any Australian legal definition. Nor will any dictionary ever rescind their present definition in favour of the latter. It isn't a matter of what the plotters might be charged with, it's about the meaning of a word whose origin means discord. There are other things of which we may hope that Abborttians may be convicted. Sedition will not be one of these, but it is what lies at the core of their behaviour.

Patriciawa

16/12/2012Robynne, don't mind TT and his forthright ways! He is often very literal as well as literary! He loves a a good argument and he sticks to his guns too! I certainly appreciated your compliment and I've stored it away all with my other compliments and pomes to be read by my great-great-great-grandchildren one day! By the way, TT, last time I looked you hadn't answered my question about [i]quadrhymatical couplets.[/i] You were too busy being a purist about 'sedition' and 'prose' and generally spreading yourself around in that enthusiastic way of yours.

DMW

16/12/2012TT, there is some Anonymous grouping or two that preach something about knowing the things that you can change and those that you can't and understanding the difference. While it is all well and good to take the linguistic high moral ground it wont change the law as it is written. We could make a valiant attempt to convince the High Justices to pontificate and reinterpret the law so that it was more in line with your understanding of the meaning of the word but I suspect it would waste more money than any of us could gather together to tilt at that windmill.

Casablanca

16/12/2012Interview with Leigh Sales December 16, 2012. Wendy Squires [quote]When the request for this interview reached Leigh Sales, her first reaction was hesitance. Sunday Life asked if she would be photographed with her baby, Daniel, and talk about the pressures of "having it all": arguably the best job in television journalism heading the ABC news institution 7.30; a much-wanted child conceived relatively late in life, and a self-confessed "very happy marriage". http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/interview-with-leigh-sales-20121214-2bdgi.html?rand=1355619247907 As a feminist, Sales immediately asked herself whether her 7.30 predecessor Kerry O'Brien would have been asked to pose with his child or to talk about juggling family with career. Or was it a question only women had to answer? [/quote]

TalkTurkey

17/12/2012Patricia, It's true I don't shy away from argument, but I am distressed by being not only misunderstood when I have made my position clear, but also misaccused of singling someone out for abuse, when I have all who read my posts today must know I have been entirely goodwilled. Except for one who took me the wrong way. You didn't actually ask me a question about the term [i]quadrhymatical couplets[/i] - I don't suggest you look for it in a dictionary, but the meaning must be clear of the substantive adjective (which btw is validly a word in its own right, once coined); just stanzas in which there are four identical rhymes instead of two twos. If that seems ordinary-ish, it's only because we speak English and it offers such a phenomenal range of words! I don't think you'd be able to do it in any other language. I do it sometimes but usually in isolated verses, not through a whole poem of multiple stanzas. Thank you for reading my motivations reasonably aright, but I wasn't there for an argument at all. As a former Teacher yourself I'm sure you appreciate my intentions.

TalkTurkey

17/12/2012DMW What do you think I meant by these lines? :- [i]There are other things of which we may hope that Abborttians may be convicted. Sedition will not be one of these, but it is what lies at the core of their behaviour.[/i] So why would you write this at me? :- [i]While it is all well and good to take the linguistic high moral ground it wont change the law as it is written.[/i] Not for the first time in this thread, I'm thinking, [i]Oh Dawg, please don't let me be misconstrued![/i] Why should I not think that your use of the evocative term "to take the moral high ground" is pretending to the high ground yourself? I am not proposing tilting at windmills, thank you very much, I am not talking about changes to laws, nor charges based on the notion of sedition FFS, I'm talking about the meaning of the word. [i]Got that?[/i] .

Patriciawa

17/12/2012Yes, TT, As a former teacher myself I may appreciate [u]your[/u] intentions, but I certainly don't share them. I try very hard not to be the retired chalkie. Saves a lot of time having to find tactful ways of expressing correcting spelling, grammar or pronunciation. I was never very good at tact. Can anyone tell me if too much offal is bad for cats? Sheba is mad keen on lambs kidneys or liver. She is such a fussy eater most of the time, and this offal is the only meal she actually finishes and looks for a second helping. I sense too that she might eat it more than the once a week I've been giving it to her. If I thought it wouldn't harm her I'd serve it up more often for her, but I was warned against it when she was a kitten. Tacker too would eat it more often, though he's not so hard to please, just loves his diced lamb off the hocks for dinner, and the bone for breakfast next day.

janice

17/12/2012Patricia, Kidneys and liver are good for cats :) I once had a moggy which suffered dramatically reduced kidney function and was always a bit on the unwell side. She became quite skinny and refused most foods offered until I discovered she ate lamb kidney with gusto. From the time she began the lamb kidney diet her health improved noticeably, so much so that the vet asked what was going on. She lived for another 9 years to finally bow out at the ripe old age of 18. Oh, she refused to have anything to do with liver though.

2353

17/12/2012Robynne - as another that has (on more than one occasion) incurred TT's wrath over grammatical and other real or imagined infractions; at the end of the day, his heart is in the right place - it's just the language and attitude that needs a bit of work. Please stay and contribute - it is worth it (and if nothing else it will stop you yelling at the TV so much when you know they have it wrong). Which segues nicely into. . . On ABC Breakfast this morning, Jim Middleton was doing the newspaper commentary. The Ashby thing (why name it after a person that has not had anything proven against him?) was raised along with Abbott's handling of the AWU stitch up. The comment was that this time last year the Prime Minister "wore" the untrustworthy and lying tags given to her by the LNP - and the polls demonstrated this. This year, the untrustworthy and lying tags just aren't working - the Prime Minister is finding herself rather than answering to the call of others. While we can all claim the ABC is biased and so on, there seems to be a realisation within the organisation that the mood is changing (and the 48:52 reported today is a position where the ALP can win from). Abbott (apart from his own problems) has a few others to overcome in the next few months. The Brisbane Times is reporting this morning that 50.5% of Queenslanders are less likely to vote for Abbott because of Newman (and the number is rising). http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/half-of-state-less-likely-to-vote-lnp-poll-20121216-2bhfp.html

Ken

17/12/2012A few comments on "sedition". I won't specfically mention everyone who has already commented because there are too many. In one sense, the different views being expressed are each correct. The broad dictionary definition gives the major clue as to why the law was changed. "Speech or behaviour directed against the peace of a State; 2. An offence that tends to undermine the authority of a state; 3. An incitement to public disorder; 4.(archaic) Revolt." [thanks TT] Historically, you can replace State with the word King, and you didn't have to say very much for a charge of "sedition" to be laid. When the law had a similar meaning, or if it still did, even much of what is said here on TPS would be sedition if it was being said about a Government. Almost any political attack on a Government could also be construed as sedition. If "sedition", as a law, continued to have the broad meaning, it would be almost impossible to have strong political arguments, and next to impossible to change a Government (which was the intention when Monarchs considered they were there by Divine Right). In effect, the broad definition runs counter to the right to free speech (or "implied right" here in Australia). In a modern democracy, such a broad definition cannot work within the legal framework without stifling debate - almost anyone who spoke against the government could be threatened with a charge of sedition. The line between genuine political comment and something that undermined the authority of the State (sedition) would be blurred. So although the law remained in place, it was rarely used. Hence, changes that have tried to tighten the legal definition. As a word, yes, the actions of the LNP are seditious but legally are not and, as much as I hate to say it, for that we should probably be grateful, for, otherwise, each of us could also be guilty of sedition at some time.

DMW

17/12/2012TT, It must have been something about the position or size of the moon yesterday as between a few we have either written misintepretable words or read them the wrong way. Mea culpa I didn't put a tongue in cheek emoticon in after the words [i]high moral ground[/i] Then again it might have been something in the water wot done it :P

DMW

17/12/2012Ken @ 9:17 AM thanks for your explanation. Wot a wonderful way with words you have used to simplify it all. Eleven and a half out of ten for that comment :)

Michael

17/12/2012Writing in today's Sydney Morning Herald http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-librarians-strategy-20121216-2bhgm.html on the judgment made by Justice Steven Rares about the collusionary pursuit of Peter Slipper, Katharine Murphy includes the following paragraph: "Take the time if you can to read the Rares judgment. It's an extraordinary case. It's not every day you see a court determine that senior Australian political operatives have abused processes with the intention of destroying one of their political enemies, and perhaps a government." I, and I doubt many here, would subscribe to her use of "perhaps", but the simple matter of fact statement that she makes in support of the matter of facts judgment delivered by Justice Rares is calm indication that the facts of this matter will not be made to disappear. Quite the reverse of a "witch-hunt" will bring Abbott and Co down on this one. Clear assessment of the facts, and a timeline ineradicably on record which includes a history of personal and 'office' contacts between senior Coalition figures and Ashby, will build a publicly aired case that the public will accept precisely because it is delivered without 'hyperventilation'. Abbott will go down swinging (it's his only self-image of 'authority', to smash), but he will go down.

MWS

17/12/2012Phillip Coorey on the character of Mal Brough: [quote]Brough comes out of this poorly. He stands scorned by a court of law for being part of a conspiracy to abuse the legal system for political purposes. He is being openly branded a “liar” by Julia Gillard and her ministers for his initial denial of having had any contact with Ashby. This makes him a handy tool for the government between now and the election. Every time the opposition raises Craig Thomson or Gillard’s actions concerning the AWU slush fund, the government will hit back with Brough. Labor’s real target is Abbott and, as Gillard did on Friday, it will accuse the Opposition Leader of endorsing the behaviour for as long as he stands by Brough and demand Abbott detail what knowledge he had in advance of the case becoming public.[/quote] http://www.afr.com/p/opinion/brough_caught_on_the_off_side_f1CQl7Xet5JwFbYWP3avlO

Ad astra reply

17/12/2012Michael I enjoyed reading Katharine Murphy’s piece. I noticed alongside it an article in the [i]SMH[/i] by Peter Hartcher, one not inclined to give a boost to Julia Gillard titled: [i]Attack dog methods bite Coalition leader[/i], an interesting analysis of why Tony Abbott has a disapproval rating of 63%, the second worst for an opposition leader in the 40 year history of the Nielsen Poll. Is Hartcher waking up to what is actually going on? http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/attack-dog-methods-bite-coalition-leader-20121216-2bhkp.html

MWS

17/12/2012Peter Hartcher on the latest poll: [quote]"Tony Abbott has gone backwards this year," said the Herald's pollster, John Stirton of Nielsen. "The lesson of the year seems to be that on two of the big issues - the carbon tax and the AWU affair - Tony Abbott overstretched. "He said the carbon tax would be much worse than the experience voters have had with it and he implied or said that Julia Gillard's behaviour 20 years ago was much worse than he's been able to make a case for."[/quote] http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/politics/attack-dog-methods-bite-coalition-leader-20121216-2bhkp.html

MWS

17/12/2012Another member of the 5th estate asking the question on everybody's lips - where is the #Ashbygate outrage? [quote]The fact that the mainstream media are not reporting this is shocking. The mastheads should be screaming “Conspiracy to sink Government” or other such hyped up sensational headlines, you know, the ones that we saw in their hundreds while they were hounding Slipper, nit picking and analysing every tiny twist & turn in the saga which brought us to the judgement yesterday. Instead, the silence has been deafening, very little has been said or written, and a lot of what is written is in a seriously bizairre context, some have even had the gall to say “Mal Brough the real victim of Peter Slipper judgment”, I kid you not! There are others along a similar vein.[/quote] http://yathink.com.au/article-display/where-is-the-ashbygate-outrage,31

MWS

17/12/2012 [quote]The media that pushed the wheel barrows crying ‘cockles’ and ‘mussels’ for months have gone silent. A man lost his job because of a politically motivated smear and abuse of justice. And the response from the media? Silence. Deafening silence.[/quote] http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/crying-cockles-and-mussels-alive-alive-o/

LadyInRed

17/12/2012Michael [i]"To study at one of the world’s greatest universities is an extraordinary privilege. Our duty is not to rejoice in our good fortune but to be worthy of it. That way we will “earn this” and ensure that others are grateful rather than resentful at our chance to enjoy this enchanted place." [/i] Turn this around to what he really meant: [i]Oh Lord it's hard to be humble but I'm doing the best that I can. I guess you could say I'm a loner, a cowboy outlaw tough and proud. I could have lots of friends if I want to but then I wouldn't stand out from the crowd. Some folks say that I'm egotistical. Hell, I don't even know what that means. I guess it has something to do with the way that I fill out my skin tight blue jeans. Oh Lord it's hard to be humble when you're perfect in every way, I can't wait to look in the mirror cause I get better looking each day To know me is to love me I must be a hell of a man. [/i]

MWS

17/12/2012The 5th estate seem to be making up for the deafening silence from the MSM: [quote]It is shameful, scandalous and utterly senseless that mainstream media aren’t foraging around this issue like frenzied little squirrels gathering nuts for winter in order to bring the truth of the matter to the Australian people. The Australian people need – but more importantly – deserve –to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Anything less just makes us look like a corrupt third world country where truth and honour are utterly disregarded just so some power hungry bully can get his hands on the leadership.[/quote] http://denniallen.wordpress.com/2012/12/16/beware-of-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing-especially-one-bearing-gifts/

LadyInRed

17/12/2012[i]THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA are gloating about the fact the LNP and Ashby have “succeeded” in their evil little plot to discredit the Government. They are gloating about the fact that, not only have they ruined a man’s career, they have also destroyed a man’s “character”. What a wonderful result that must seem — to have so successfully slandered and defamed another person? To have driven him and his family to the brink? [/i] Looks like I am off to hell: [i]Jolly Joe quietly travelled to the Sunshine Coast in April – that is, just before Ashby filed his court documents – to meet Mal Brough and Clive Palmer at a Coolum steakhouse. Joe says they discussed Peter Slipper — but not James Ashby. Of course not! Now, don’t expect big Joe to remember meeting James Ashby ‒ if it turns out he did ‒ as he has up to eleventy things on his mind at any one time. And if you persist in asking him questions about this affair — well, you can just “go to hell”! [/i] http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/ashbygate-and-the-born-to-rule-brigade/

42 long

17/12/2012Amazing!! I can't really fault Hartcher's latest piece. The thrust/perspective is different to his general stance. These people are definately influenced by their job situation. What's changed though!!!! except it is more acute than ever previously? The response from journo's has always been...... "It has to come out anti xxxxx. There are only 2 types of journo's in Australia.... Those who work for Rupert and those who are going to.".. So Rupert doesn't have to vet each article personally. The successful ones find out quickly what HE wants. The dynamic is changing now. Grattan will be among the last to realise it. We will find out who the ones with integrity are. When I use that word, am I from another world? We still need the adherence to that kind of concept or we lose civilisation, or is it only a thin veneer? Not really there in any substance. Just an illusion. Abbott makes me think it is only that. Abbott and integrity er ...what..

LadyInRed

17/12/2012A tweet for you all: [iWhit Goughlam @leftofcentre Breaking: @TonyAbbottMHR seen entering Ecuadorian Embassy. Will do anything to stop returning to Oz, including selling arse to Assange. [/i]

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

17/12/2012 Another few pieces below to add to the archive TPSers are compiling so rapidly (with my thanks, too, to all for how much easier it makes keeping up!). It does seem as if the media are starting to swing now on #Ashbygate, Brough and Abbott's truthfulness. McCauley's article is particularly 'dry', but cutting. [b]A Plea For Smarter Debate In 2013[/b] Ian McAuley If you want to criticise the government do so; it’s the essence of democracy. But explain why. Don’t just say "Labor is incompetent," or "we need to get rid of this rotten government". There are plenty of blogs that make such banal assertions. If you have reasons, support them with logic or facts. Before you say interest rates were lower under the Coalition government check the Reserve Bank website. Simply saying over and over again that Australians’ cost of living is rising faster than their income does not make the statement true. (Or perhaps you have evidence that the Australian Bureau of Statistics is engaged in a conspiracy of official deception?) If you are using official statistics, don’t patronise us by neglecting the normal qualifications a first year economics student would make. Don’t compare a 1992 financial figure with a 2012 figure without bringing it to constant prices. Remember that even six-year-olds negotiating for pocket money can see through that argument. They know that ten bob a week was a pretty good allowance in 1960. If you think the Gillard Government has mishandled the economy, explain what it should have done better. If, like Christopher Pyne, you think it should have run a surplus budget in the wake of the 2008 crisis, explain why you think 10 or 12 percent unemployment would have been a good outcome. (Perhaps it would have made it easier to hire a servant.) If you want to tell us that a politician has diverted a cut of all AWU membership dues into his or her personal account, provide credible evidence, and not just a cutting penned by a Murdoch journalist — you might notice that those on the "left" don’t quote from the Pyongyang Times. http://newmatilda.com/2012/12/17/plea-smarter-debate [b]Election may hinge on Abbott’s appeal[/b] Laura Tingle And so the year closes almost as it begun. All that grief, angst and unpleasantness and the only change it has produced, in net terms over 2012, is the most reviled Opposition Leader in almost 30 years, and some improvement in the standing of the Prime Minister. http://www.afr.com/p/national/election_may_hinge_on_abbott_appeal_Ro7o4cveCFZM17BP6G4PbJ Meanwhile @sortius has updated his blog because he believes he now has absolute proof ... [b]10 Hours of Bullshit[/b] @sortius This does mean that the original files were output at 23:08 (& 32 seconds) on 20/04/12 in the AEST (+10hrs) time zone, meaning Abbott’s office was not only aware of the impending report from News LTD, but had enough time to prepare a statement the night before. Yes, this has confirmed my suspicions that the edited file was not showing the correct time zone, and while more than likely this was not changed for malicious reasons, it does show that Abbott’s “10 hours out” to be bullshit on so many levels. It’s clear that Abbott was made aware of much more than he’s letting on. http://sortius-is-a-geek.com/?p=2626 Meanwhile Jonathon Green from ABCRN has tweeted: @GreenJ putting the polemic to one side, the geekery here from @sortius on the abbott timing affair looks unarguable http://bit.ly/XiWvk9 Shirley at December 16. 2012 08:34 PM I do so agree; there's been very little addressing of Ashby's lawyer, Harmer, and his modus operandi and/or business model. Suspect as the story finally gains heat we're going to see some. DMW at December 16. 2012 09:29 PM Very interested in your notion of the introduction of retrospective legislation perhaps 'telegraphed' etc. One hopes the Govt. is actually also doing some of this thinking. Perhaps you could email a few MPs :-). Ken at December 17. 2012 09:17 AM You said: [i]As a word, yes, the actions of the LNP are seditious but legally are not and, as much as I hate to say it, for that we should probably be grateful, for, otherwise, each of us could also be guilty of sedition at some time.[/i] You've captured, along with TT the 'behaviour' and its separateness from law very well. Je suis content :-) [b][/b]

KHTAGH

17/12/2012A small add on to the discussion about sedition, as pointed out by TT [i] 1. Speech or behaviour directed against the peace of a State; 2. An offence that tends to undermine the authority of a state; 3. An incitement to public disorder; 4.(archaic) Revolt.[/i] #4 Remember Abbortt publicly called for a citizens revolt over the price on pollution so even #4 is relevant to him being charged in my opinion. He should be!!

nasking

17/12/2012 Top comments from the majority of contributors on this site. From BSA BOB in regard to the lack of intense focus by our ever-mediocre MSM when it comes to the Ashby/Brough affair...Slippergate as some refer to it: [b]I've nothing particularly original to offer in this, but agree with those who point out this is probably better described as an "antiWatergate" as in this case the media is complicit in the coverup.[/b] [b]I like to prattle on about the "Perpetual Present" & there can't be a better example than this. Less than a month ago the media was all over alleged 20 year old events & now ignores this. Oblivious, or at least seeming to be, of the contradiction. A case, I fear of their having nailed their colours to the mast. It also seems to highlight the widening gap between the 4th & 5th estates.[/b] --- Indeed. BSA BOB reflects the common man's view I suspect. Something stinks. What does it say to the public about BIAS when the mainstream media go bonkers over a recycled issue...acting like a pack of slavering wolves recently, intent on wounding and feeding on our PM... yet, the Liberal party have been caught out in a virtual act of sedition...and the MSM generally stumble around farting and grumbling like a bunch of over-fed pub goers attempting to play darts blindfolded...Tony Abbott as the board? The likelihood of many, if any, hitting the bullseye is remote. Yet, we can expect the order for those blindfolds to be removed...once the gaze is to be fixed on the PM again. The public are waking up to this inconsistency...this SHAM. N'

Truth Seeker

17/12/2012Hey Swordsters, although I haven't been commenting much over the last couple of weeks, due to everything being pretty much covered by the regulars here, I have been lurking and reading most of the comments. Hey Nas, good to see that you are still around and feeling a tad better. I also thought that due to the intense nature of the political debate over the court decision and the subsequent "look over there" and "nothing to see here" attitude of the MSM, It was time for a little light relief. So here is my latest looney left musings; Tony Abbotts Letter to Santa Dear old Santa, now here’s the thing I’m pretty well off so I don’t want bling But the thought of losing makes me shiver So here are some things… you could deliver For Julie Bishop, she needs your aid To find some proof to help put paid To Gillard and her Labor crew Who deny the scandal… of the AWU We’ve said Gillard acted illegally But the cow just sits and laughs at me Though Julie keeps on throwing mud It’s me that ends up wearing… crud She needs to find that smoking gun To get the PM on the run To help us turn the Labor tide Before they tan… her Gucci hide And sloppy Joe needs help with maths Cos he just keeps making mega gaffs On the state of our economy Where he’s lost.. all credibility And that bloody smart arse treasurer Swan Makes sure the economy keeps moving on From strength to strength with world wide ticks While we look like.. economic… dicks So a calculator that Joe can work Will stop him looking like a jerk And something else he’d like to see A recession.. to help his… credibility For Chrissy Pyne It’s my first choice That he could get a deeper voice My misogynist word “Shrill”, is working fine Except HE gets “Shrill”.. when he starts to whine His whining and his dummy spits Are what give laborites the shits But sadly, if I’ve truth to tell His voice gives us.. the shits as well The Mincing Poodle’s his nick name Making light of the way he plays our game So a deeper voice would be just great To help my little.. fluffy mate And my mate Pell could use a hand To support his wholly right wing stand To help his cause a Pope’s decree Would be the shot.. and might help me For there’s many there within the church Who don’t like George’s right wing lurch And the separation of Church and state Is a fluid concept for my… Churchy mate And though he’s a mate, a Popes decree Could keep him there where he needs to be For the spin that flows out from his gob Makes him a genuine threat.. to take.. my job And there’s nothing Turnbull hasn’t got Except his cred is badly shot As he promotes my NB brain fart Which was my plan… from the very start Cos the party thinks he’s sold his soul To the centre left, and he’s dug his hole And he’s stuck there now for eternity Never more to lead… the LNP So a candle would be more than fair To help him see through his despair As he vainly searches through his big black hole To find his long lost.. right wing.. soul And for Sophie, Ashby and Jackson too I ask some legal help from you For despite promoting their renown Their shonky deals… could bring us down So please let charges soon be laid From the Thomson allegations made To prove the man’s a Labor crook And do him.. like a roasted chook While Jackson walks away scot free From allegations made that she Misappropriated Union dosh To live the lifestyle.. very posh And likewise for young Ashby too Though the judgement dumps us in the poo Please let his appeal be granted quick Cos the whole thing makes me… feel quite sick And let her ill gotten gains stay with Sophie To offset her moral bankruptcy And I ask these gift to clear the way For victory on… election day By the way Santa, that bloody carbon tax Has done me over with the facts So to prove I’m not just talking crap Could you wipe Whyalla… off the map And I need to win the electoral fight Cos Mummy told me, it’s my right With the last one stolen from my hand By that ranga bird… and her rag tag band So I ask all this for those weary hearts Who’ve supported me and my many brain farts And the many times when I’ve run like a rabbit Yours sincerely….. Tony Abbott PS, Saint Nic, in the Heavenly sphere You have connections that is clear And all I’ve asked, is you support our spin To help deliver… an election win And spread your gifts through the LNP To aid in our great victory But if these things are beyond your scope At least, help me get the gig….. as the first.. Australian Pope Cheers :-)

MWS

17/12/2012Bernard Keane on the lack of interest in the Ashby affair: [quote]But, strangely, there’s been nothing. No acres of newsprint from that fine forensic mind of Hedley Thomas. No editorial from The Australian demanding Abbott and Brough allow themselves to be grilled at length. No columns in The Age from Mark Baker. No complaints from Jonathan Holmes about the ABC not following the story up. No interviews on 7.30 with discredited figures making wild allegations against Abbott and then refusing to detail them, let alone back them up. Perhaps it’s the time of year and everyone’s in holiday mode. But it’s curious that, after so many resources were devoted this year by The Australian and The Age to unsuccessfully finding a single substantial question to raise about the Prime Minister on the AWU matter, it’s a blogger that has done exactly that about Abbott on the Slipper case.[/quote] http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/12/17/time-discrepancies-and-the-strange-lack-of-interest-in-ashby-affair/

MWS

17/12/2012First Dog on the Moon's take on this affair: http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/12/17/not-even-a-specific-fig/

jaycee

17/12/2012I agree MWS. I tried to place a post on an article on The Drum enquiring if the ABC. was aware that there was a rumour going around that something had been going on the last week about an attempt to destabilise the parliament to overthrow the govt'...but it seems to have got lost in the "Business news of the year"..: "Clive Palmer places mock dinosaurs on golf course" kind of thing! I did notify them the other day on their "send us your news tips" section rhat I had heard that "someone" had brought a vextious case against the speaker and had destroyed the career of him in an attempt..etc. but they didn't seem to think THAT of much importance!...BUT..BUT!.. I see Mark Scott wants us to be interested in the departure of the head of the ABC (whoever THAT is!)and he has served us well...no doubt Scott is pushing for his job!!...considering he is stuck like old chewing-gum on Tabbott's ar*e and is soo keen to do whatever he can to help them he could suck-start a Harley-Davidson if asked! Heavens knows why the govt' would trust a Liberal Party crawler to honestly report the truth in news when the leader lies like a pig in sh!t is beyond me. But then..That's "OUR" ABC.!

MWS

17/12/2012Chris Uhlmann has a piece in the religion(!) section of the ABC: [quote]It's perfectly reasonable for Tony Abbott's political life to be informed by his Catholicism; many Greens are informed by a modern take on pantheism and no one seems troubled by that. And it's arguable that some of his best political impulses are those shaped by a rich tradition of theology and philosophy. It was therefore essential for Marr to examine the Opposition leader's faith, because it is impossible to understand Tony Abbott without it. What should have been the talking point of the essay is the glaring fault-line Marr draws between Tony's faith and Abbott's ruthless pragmatism. Tony's better angels have ever been at war with Abbott's earthly ambitions, a tension that appears even in his decision to train for the priesthood at St Patrick's College, Manly. Why? "He wanted to be Archbishop of Sydney," Father Michael Kelly told Four Corners in 2010. Given the church leadership's immersion in the darker arts of politics for nearly 2000 years, Father Kelly might have added St John Chrysostom's observation that, "The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." Tony is guided by Christ's distillation of the law: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Abbott is driven by a parody of that dictum coined by another Catholic politician, James Curley, the three-time Boston mayor: "Do others, or they will do you."[/quote] NB, Uhlmann (not mentioned in the piece) is differentiating between "Tony" and "Abbott." http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/12/17/3656062.htm

Gravel

17/12/2012Truth Seeker That was brilliant, well done. :-) Michael Katherine Murphy wrote one small paragraph, I guess we should be grateful. To know that she is aware exactly what was said is all good and well but where are the OM's screaming headlines, the continuous reportage on radio, tv, talk shows?????

LadyInRed

17/12/2012Re Uhlkmann's article : http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/12/17/3656062.htm [i] Abbott is the most successful Opposition leader in Australian political history. He has undone one prime minister and may bring down a second[/i] [b]Please don't insult us Uhlmann...you left out Abbott and his MSM connections. Without the woeful job of you so called political journo's who feed us opinion as fact he would be nowhere.[/b] [i] He has now taken as gospel the words of Lord Randolph Churchill: "Oppose everything, suggest nothing and turf the Government out." [/i] [b]Uhlmann seems to imply that TAbbott has the ability to formulate policies. This is not a sign of intelligence but rather a sign of someone with nothing else to offer.[/b] [i]The caricature of Abbott as a brutal misogynist is not accurate[/i] [b]Isn't it? I think of any female in this country the PM who has suffered THE most has the call on this one. Uhlmann unless you have suffered from it yourself, and by your very gender you haven't, then you have nothing to base that statement on.[/b] The main problem with Uhlmann's article is that he is trying to convince us that Abbott has substance. And I am afraid that, Uhlmann, is measured through deeds. And thus far his deeds are of a man who will do and say anything to win power, ruin a man, punch walls, lie, call people names, weasel his way out of problems, hide, cheat, stand in front of offensive signs, waste tax payer money in QT chasing smear and sleaze, scare the life out of vulernable people over carbon pricing .......where is the Christian in that. [i]It's perfectly reasonable for Tony Abbott's political life to be informed by his Catholicism.[/i] Oh please stop insulting us.

MWS

17/12/2012Mungo McCallum on the Queensland connection (apologies to all Qlders): [quote]...there was one big difference in the current case, and that is that it involved the courts. Politicians are expected to play their games on their own turf, and not attempt to encroach on the judicial system. In this context it is noteworthy that nearly all those mentioned in the case - Peter Slipper, James Ashby, Slipper aide Karen Doane, Mal Brough, LNP President Bruce McIver, state minister Mark McArdle, David Russell QC, Clive Palmer – are Queenslanders. As Joh Bjelke-Petersen repeatedly showed, he and his fellow banana benders have always had a problem with the doctrine of the separation of powers, the inviolable constitutional premise which guarantees that the three arms of government, the executive, the legislature and the judiciary all have their distinct and independent role and none of them may interfere with the other two. As soon as Ashby and his supporters crossed that line by lodging a statement of claim in the Federal Court, they were taking on forces over which they had no control and ones which were instinctively sceptical about political game-playing, and who would deeply resent any attempt to use them as part of it.[/quote] http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4431690.html

MWS

17/12/2012Loved the comment from Recalcitrant (2.52PM) to the Uhlmann article: [quote]OK, let's run with the idea that deep down Tony Abbott is a caring, sharing, lovable kinda guy who wants to do good works. But that's not his public face and the public face is the one running for election. The Tony Abbott that gets up on TV each night is a heartless, grasping, negative destroyer who wants to unwind the only thing Australia has done to combat climate change (the carbon tax) and destroy the only forward thinking thing Australia is doing (the NBN). Private Tony is dead. Public Tony is a monster. I won't vote for the Tony I cannot see.[/quote]

42 long

17/12/2012The more you study Tonys deeds the more you notice that the PLAN is adhered to and all he is trying to do is destroy reputations. This is the way he works. The truth is not in him. We ALL know he wants the job. and will do anything (almost) I'm not sure that the almost is applicable, to get it. We have all seen what he does, and it is not a pretty picture.. I can't recall anyone I loathe more, judged entirely on what he does. Do you blame the catholic upbringing? Perhaps it is the school(s) he went to? They would hardly be proud of the way HE behaves, would they? I hope not but I'm not sure. I wouldn't want to send my kids there IF there was a chance they could end up with the values Tony has. He is out there now, a proven to be consistently deceptive, person who I don't trust to behave any better when he is PM that how he does now. You can't really cop the view that this is all the fault of the "hung" Parliament and both sides are as bad. They are not the same.... and repeating lies, over and over, doesn't make them a truth. Tony Abbott has never really been any different. Most people don't fundamentally change. As my mother would say, "Leopards don't change their spots" We have seen the "real" Tony..

LadyInRed

17/12/2012Here here MWS - dont vote for someone who can't be known. Why would you? You wouldn't know what you got....though dud comes to mind.

Michael

17/12/2012Funny, reading ALL of Chris Uhlmann's article on 'Tony' 'Abbott' it reads to me like a political obituary written in sad recognition that Abbott is the real Tony, and he's done himself in. Is it possible to read it any other way when this is Uhlmann's last sentence? 'And as he wrestles, too late, with the task of convincing a sceptical public that there is more to him than meets the eye, he might reflect on the words of Luke's Gospel: "For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses himself?"' "too late" and "loses himself" describing TA. You can't get more valedictory* than that. *adjective, serving as a farewell (my dictionary's definition)

Truth Seeker

17/12/2012Gravel, thanks for that, I am glad you liked it :-) :-) Cheers :-) :-)

LadyInRed

17/12/2012Michael perhaps you are right and it is an obituary - but its written for a Tony based on the figment of Uhlmanns imagination. [i]And right now, Tony Abbott might console himself with the idea that when he finally grasps the prize, he will govern differently to the way that he won government.[/i] All the TAbbott lovers really believe that underneath all that thuggishness there lies a man of substance, something other than what we are seeing (it's LOTO's job to oppose, and isn't he the best we have ever seen at it, ergo he must be quite something? We can't be wrong! He'as smarter than we think, he is not a mysogynist when he is, he is loyal when he isn't, he cares when he doesn't). MWS says it well when he says "I wont vote for the Tony I cannot see". I go one step further to say there is actually nothing better too see in TAbbott, in actual fact the truth is 'what you see is what you get'.

Tom of Melbourne

17/12/2012[i]” I think of any female in this country the PM who has suffered THE most has the call on this one.[/i]” When it comes to venomous bile directed to a woman, Kathy Jackson must have had more of it than anyone. I find it interesting that those that play the “misogyny” card about legitimate scrutiny of a Prime Minister, spit sexist hateful insults to a woman who isn’t even in parliament. She’s only a union official. If the abuse was directed to an ALP friendly official, they’d be characterised as both misogynist and union bashing.

bob macalba

17/12/2012Chris Uhlmann's got a serious mancrush going with tory abbott and its seriously breaking his heart

bob macalba

17/12/2012this is a good game,..ignore, ignore, ignore, dont feed

2353

17/12/2012Bob, you could call it a "bromance"! Has Ullmann written Abbott's political obituary (and why is it hidden in the religious section anyway?

LadyInRed

17/12/2012Does pointing out mysogyny elsewhere negate mysogyny directed against the PM by TAbbott? I think not. This is a typical tactic of the Libs....look over there tactics. Anopther furffy is the : "If the government thinks that Slipper is so great why don't they reinstate him?" Does that negate the abuse of process....NO. Does that negate the fact that they vilified a man to suit their own purposes who otherwise would not have been? NO. One does not wipe out the other. And how dare you ToM use my post in such a way as to imply that I have ever said anything about Kathy Jackson. I don't like Tabbott, I don't deny that. I don't play any mysogyny cards. I call it how I see it. So, I request that that post be taken down AD astra, if you woul so kind.

jaycee

17/12/2012That Uhlmann is trully sickening. He now must be stood down as this panegyric demonstrates his incapacity to deliver unbiased reporting.

Patriciawa

17/12/2012Some delicious verses here, Truth Seeker, I envy you this one: [i]We’ve said Gillard acted illegally But the cow just sits and laughs at me. Though Julie keeps on throwing mud It’s me that ends up wearing… crud. [/i] And I'd love to have this to close an Abbott Xmas wish list. [i]By the way Santa, that bloody carbon tax Has done me over with the facts. So to prove I’m not just talking crap Could you wipe Whyalla… off the map.[/i]

nasking

17/12/2012 Truth Seeker, your poem points out many salient reasons voters should avoid a Coalition govt...as they should buttered dung for breakfast. Bad start for the day. I noticed that the Coalition negabore tactics have a deleterious effect on consumer confidence according to Michael Pascoe...all those Lib supporters running for the hills because Tony and his weasels are scarin' the bejesus outa them - not that it takes much...a Tampa here, a Hajib there...and they're wetting their pants imagining they've been caught red-handed snorting coke off the Koran in the centre of Riyadh. Not surprising they digest The Australian, various tabloids and Tony the Fleeing Moaner's words each morn... buttered dung is obviously addictive when you have no backbone nor principles... and utopia is sleeping with Gina Rinehart in a room covered in Gordon Gecko posters with champers on the bedside table blessed by The Pope and mozzarella pizzas regurgitated by Silvio Berlusconi. Not forgetting the new version of The Bible in the draw...[b]THE WORLD ACCORDING TO MURDOCH: How to perpetuate the greatest con on Earth without really trying thanks to my sycophantic minions and their copycats[/b] N'

Truth Seeker

17/12/2012Patricia, yes the first one is one of my personal faves, and the second one was not in the original, but was prompted by an idea from Roswell, so I wrote it in response and added it to this version. Glad you like it :-) Nas, great to see you're still with us (haven't let the bastard beat you down). And yes, there are just a plethora of reasons why voters should not put Abbott within 10 klm of the Lodge. I could have put in another ten verses, and still left plenty out. Cheers :-) :-) :-)

Ken

17/12/201242 long 4.34pm "The more you study Tonys deeds the more you notice that the PLAN is adhered to and all he is trying to do is destroy reputations. This is the way he works." Agree entirely. It has made me think that, despite what I personally think of the man and his hypocrisy, that at least for the first 12 months or so of this Government, he was getting better politico-media advice than the PM was. He followed the early polls which showed some dubious views of the PM; he focused on "sound bites" and "catchy phrases". His pithy phrases on the Carbon Tax were typical of this stage. Of course, the introduction of the Carbon Tax undid him on that front. If he had succeeded in forcing an early election, this would have been seen as politically astute. But he didn't, and now the shallowness of the strategy is becoming blatantly obvious. The next phase was trying to get the numbers changed on the floor of the House - the attacks on Thomson. The Government countered that with Slipper's appointment as Speaker. Then the attack on Slipper. Now that has failed, it will be interesting to see what else is left in the locker. As a number of people on TPS have pointed out, the PM is looking stronger than she has at any other time. The polls, while still volatile, are trending her way. As much as I loathe the man, I can understand the political tactics but as I said, it was short-sighted, and he lacked a longer term strategy. That is also a danger for someone who claims the right to be PM. He would be the same, reacting to polls and short-term issues, and lacking a strategic vision. Despite everything he has tried, his tactics have not worked, and there has been no apparent longer term strategy. Questions will be being asked!!

nasking

17/12/2012 Interesting: [quote]The ReachTEL poll, commissoned by Channel 7, surveyed 1134 people on Friday night and asked, ‘‘Has the performance of the Newman State Government made you more or less likely to vote for the LNP at the upcoming Federal election?’’ It found 50.5 per cent of people were less likely to vote for the LNP federally, while 31 per cent were more likely and 18.5 per cent said it would not affect their vote. In October, when asked the same question, 45.1 per cent of people said they would likely not vote for the LNP federally because of the performance of the state government. [b]Support for Katter’s Australian Party has also climbed from 8.9 per cent to 12.1 per cent a few weeks after their ranks were bolstered by MP Ray Hopper, who defected from the LNP last month...[/b] Of those polled, 38.2 per cent think Mr Newman is doing a good or very good job, while 51 per cent believe he is doing a poor or very poor job.[/quote] http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/half-of-state-less-likely-to-vote-lnp-poll-20121216-2bhfp.html I wonder how many QLDers have thought thru the relationship between gun laws and Katter's party? And the LNP for that matter. Considering the gun-related violence in some areas of QLD. ---- [b]Obama: now is the time for change[/b] http://www.smh.com.au/world/obama-now-is-the-time-for-change-20121217-2biq3.html Better late than never. Tho far too late for far too many. Shooters are aided by complacent and fearful of voter backlash govts. At present the MSM in this country are complacent. They can praise Howard all they like...and pretend we're significantly different here than in America...but gun-related violence in Australia is like an insidious cancer growth...and both media and politicians are aiding & abetting the cause of the gun-huggers. The likes of Katter and Newman should be exposed for their irresponsible approaches to guns. Not doing so will lead to many tragedies the likes of which we've rarely seen. And a country overflowing with guns like some Wild West nightmare. Guns creep up on you. When the MSM and politicians fool themselves...and the public. Ask Brits and Canadians. N'

bob macalba

17/12/20122353 tory abbott seems to me to have quite a few 'bromancers' out there, coorey..kelly..harcher..shanahan..van olsen..murray..kenny..all the IPA knobs,.jones,..hadley,.... man i could be here all night,

bob macalba

17/12/2012forgot to put ToM on that list

Shirley

17/12/2012To all TPS poets I say thank you. A very talented group of people indeed. Educating and entertaining. To Chris Uhlmann. Nauseating but in a Democracy you are allowed your opinion, thank your lord we do not have to agree. 'Separation of state and church" um .

Wake Up

17/12/2012In case you weren't aware, Uhlmann recently co-wrote a book with Limited News hack and Ashby accomplice Steve Lewis.

Wake Up

17/12/2012Glad you are enjoying the game Bob, I know I am.

2353

17/12/2012Bob - Correct, although in some cases I suspect the "bromance" is cooling quickly. Wake up - the really fun part will be as the posts become even less rational in an attempt to get a response. It's already started with the "look over there" post above.

nasking

17/12/2012 How often do we hear from the MSM whilst interviewing neighbours and peers that the MASS MURDERER was "unremarkable", "didn't stand out"? As my wife remarked yesterday: "That's the problem...these are individuals lost, hidden, struggling to be SOMEONE in societies that are overly-competitive...promote DO ANYTHING, SAY ANYTHING TO GET NOTICED way of existence" Indeed, these are virtually invisible individuals living in libertarian, oft bigoted, work desperate, religion strangled, archaic communities in a nation of three hundred million plus that caters to social Darwinism...and the RACE TO THE TOP mentality... a nation that would prefer to sack guiding, healing, concerned teachers...rather than tax its CELEBRITY RICH...its CORPORATE ARISTOCRACY. The beauty of a town's landscape oft hides the ROT...but then we should know that...most of us saw TWIN PEAKS... lived in BIGOT TIME...BIGOT SUBURB...BIGOT TOWN. When a young man pumps the future of a town full of bullets... that's a wake up call. For the town...the nation. That was once more than a NATION. N'

nasking

17/12/2012 BTW, evil is LOUIE GOHMERT Follow the money. And supporters. For there is a WAR OF ALL WARS that the media MORIARTY intends to bring down on all of us...a CHAOS so extreme...yet one he, MURDOCH, believes he can play a saviour in...for having the journalistic escapades of Keith Murdoch projecting in his mind like an ongoing film for so long...enhancing his shame at being such a cowardly character himself...MURDOCH has hatched a plan so devious...so grotesque...with a key Saudi mega-rich rebel and various others including those at high-levels of influence in China...that he hopes to REDEEM himself in the MIDST OF CHAOS...and prove himself superior to KEITH. Follow the investments...with microscopic scrutiny...for they are hidden well...and you will find armaments are a key part of the plan. And ASSASSINATION. N'

Wake Up

17/12/20122353, yes the predictability is hilarious.

Tom of Melbourne

17/12/2012Unlike a range of others, I’m always willing to correct my comments if they’re misunderstood and cause offence. Lady in Red, please accept my retraction if you consider my comment reflected on you. ----------------- It should be pointed out that Kathy Jackson isn’t in parliament but a range of bloggers here, and many that have been quoted and linked, have reflected on her in a way that can be (these days) regarded as misogynistic. The comments have included reflections on her character, her political orientation, even the motivations of her partner. All without a shred of evidence. There’s a word to describe such double standards.

Ad astra reply

17/12/2012Folks I've been busy all day and have just now caught up with your informative comments and links - sitting up in bed with the iPad. Thank you for them. I won't respond to them all, but I want to congratulate our resident poets on your superb verse. We are fortunate to have you as members of our family. Regarding the Uhlmann piece, I suspect it has been written in regret, in sad reflection of what the Abbott man might have been, but can now never become - it is all too late. Tomorrow I have to do more property maintenance, so won't be around much. But please go on posting.

nasking

17/12/2012 The Chinese President MUST BE PROTECTED at all costs. Japan MUST examine itself. N'

Jason

17/12/2012Wake Up U da man/woman Great game

DMW

17/12/2012Janet @ 12:22 PM, I have recently discussed the thoughts with a friend who has a relative who works in the appropriate ministers office. I understand the 'earworm' has already been inserted and that there may be something along similar lines is being considered. We can only wait and see.

nasking

18/12/2012 As Monk would say: HE'S THE GUY!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harding_(journalist) N'

nasking

18/12/2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_(The_Beatles_album) AND: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kQbMvmU1Elg Almost there The story continued N'

nasking

18/12/2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melencolia_I N'

Ad astra reply

18/12/2012Folks I'll be out on the mower most of the day.

TalkTurkey

18/12/2012STOMP-CHANT:- COME CLEAN ABBORTT! ABBORTT COME CLEAN! [b]WHAT[/b] DID YOU KNOW? [b]WHEN[/b] DID YOU KNOW IT? [i][b]HOW INVOLVED [/b]YOU BEEN?[/i]

KHTAGH

18/12/2012TS I just wanted to say how much I loved that last one of yours, well done smiles a plenty.

TalkTurkey

18/12/2012TS What KHTAGH said! :)

MWS

18/12/2012I can't help but wonder how the Slipper / Ashby court case would have proceeded if Ashby had been a lot more careful what he put in his text messages. If the conspirators had not put it all in writing. If Ashby had used a second phone (not disclosed to the Court) to call or text Brough and Lewis. Frighteningly, justice was done only because the plaintiff made mistakes and left a paper trail. We can't expect that to happen again.

MWS

18/12/2012It's given that Mal Brough would have won the next election against Slipper - so the only reason why Brough would have supported / encouraged Ashby would have been to force Slipper's resignation and a subsequent by-election, resulting in Brough getting back into Parliament a year (at the most) earlier than he would have otherwise done. And for this our judicial processes have been abused. I wonder if the trashing of Brough's reputation was worth the possible reward? In retrospect, no.

Truth Seeker

18/12/2012KHTAGH ,Thanks for your kind words and feedback, I am happy that you enjoyed it. :-) TT, Ditto :-) Cheers :-) :-) :-)

LadyInRed

18/12/2012ToM I accept your apology. I don't believe I have double standards. If Jackson has lied or indeed Thomson has been found to have lied then let justice do its job. I have said about Thomson, an allegation is just that an allegation, it does not mean that you have to stand aside, the same goes for Jackson. Imagine if that were the standard, everytime someone points a finger it is taken as a truth? I think not. If they have questions to answer then let a court ask them, until then they are entitled to the presumption of innocence. However, if someone like Jackson and Ashby who have spent so much time trying to inflict as much damage as possible on someone publically then investigative journalists, and we can add blogists, will attempt to find the truth. Some people will join in throwing mud and others will hold judgement, and others (I put you in this bunch) will make sweeping generalisations about a whole group of people who they do not really know because it makes them feel good. I came to this site because the MSM is not doing its job. Lyn's links are fair, she posts information from everywhere. Ad astra is a Labor supporter, however I believe he is fair in his articles. I read them knowing that he supports the PM. I support the PM. No government is perfect and I don't have blinkers on. I do not think TAbbott will make a good PM, in fact I shudder at the thought.

bob macalba

18/12/2012slow day today, a song perhapshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htobTBlCvUU

jaycee

18/12/2012Lady in Red...You have put the point across in a fair and concose manner..no-one could have said it better. There are those who see themselves as adjuncts to the wreckers and have no moral obligation to discern what is best against what suits their viciousness. More power to you. On a lighter note..seeing as some of you will be going away for christmas, here's wishing you all a safe and enjoyable one... regards for the holidays..Jaycee.

MWS

18/12/2012Latest Wixxyleaks post: [quote]The tactics that have been used in this election campaign have been nothing short of an utter disgrace. This is the kind of crap that makes the entire Union movement look bad, and in my eyes that is unforgivable. There have been allegations of hit and runs, computer records tampered with, threatening behaviour and intimidation tactics, the public smearing of an ombudsman, intervention orders on a candidate, and now we have a fake letter that has gone out under the pretence of coming from the Australian Electoral Commission.[/quote] http://wixxyleaks.com/2012/12/18/not-even-jail/

MWS

18/12/2012Tracey Spicer on Tony Abbott: After the show, Senator Arthur Sinodinos asked me what the Coalition could do to appeal to women. The party’s wise head know Mr. Abbott’s aggression cannot be airbrushed from the pages of history. I replied: “Two things: adopt female friendly policies and change your leader”. The call is not only coming from leftie feminists. Increasingly, conservative women are joining the A.B.A. club – Anyone But Abbott. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: there’s something about Tony Abbott that makes your skin crawl. http://thehoopla.com.au/abbottcan-change/

MWS

18/12/2012Sorry, forgot to put the /quote bits in. All of my previous post except for the first line and the link come from Tracey Spicer.

Pikiranku

18/12/2012Just catching up here and Nasking I totally agree with the thrust of your 10.10p.m. post last night. When I read the critique of Stiglitz's book and AA's thoughts it brought to my mind another sad, wasteful (wasteful of human resources as well as money)and unnecessary aspect of American society - its extraordinary prison population. It's all symptomatic of a society which lacks compassion, a vengeful society in fact. Consider the response of the US to countries which defy it - China, Vietnam, Cuba, for example. They react very angrily and vindictively and they take a very long time to get over it. Consider their draconian penal codes at home (three strikes and you're out)and their widespread attachment to capital punishment. I'm not talking here of Americans as individuals - I've never met one I didn't like - but as a society, when they're dealing with people they don't personally know, they're pretty short on understanding and compassion and pretty strong on violent self-defence and/or revenge. And now we have yet another mad massacre. I feel that all these issues are connected, that there's something particular about American society that produces these detached and angry people. It's not enought to tighten the gun laws. That should happen, of course - guns provide the wherewithal. But there's got to be more to it than that, a reason why American society so often engenders such blind rage. And it's a cop-out to just label it as 'evil' and carry on as normal. America needs to indulge in some profound and probably painful self-examination. And we need to be very careful of what we become here.

LadyInRed

18/12/2012Thanks jaycee. I have seen some takes on Ashbygate but this one from Henderson takes the cake. We have all been struck down with 'minority obsession' and that includes poor Judge Rares who has clearly so got up Hendersons nose he has to supply us with a picture of him - so if you see ths man do not, I repeat do not go near him lest you catch a dose of 'minority obsession' yourself. Pass me the Bex. [i] For example, Rares commented that Ashby's moves against Slipper had consequences that ''could affect the balance of power in the House of Representatives, depending on whether Mr Slipper could remain as Speaker''. This is not the case. Here, the judge seems to have been disoriented by the minority obsession. He is not the only one. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/minority-rule-makes-fools-of-both-sides-of-the-house-20121217-2bj7s.html#ixzz2FMgYQWIc[/i] I would love to correct Henderson on his statement. I think Rares was commenting on what Ashby thought. Ashby was not texting like a man who was being sexually harrassed, he was texting like someone who really thought he had the power to bring down the government. Henderson is doing a bit of mischief here to sustantiate his argument. Here is the Judgement. It is passage 37. What do others think? http://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/judgments/Judgments/fca/single/2012/2012fca1411

bob macalba

18/12/2012thanks MWS, sounds like that halfwit piers has pissed the ladies off-judging by the comments in the Hoopla, must go and find out what the grubby tosser wrote, cheers

Jason

18/12/2012bob macalba, The miserable little toad wrote this! "Thank you Henry Ergas for helping me understand what sort of women still support Julia Gillard’s prime ministership. It’s the dumb ones. " http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/dumb_women_support_gillard/

Ken

18/12/2012Lady in Red 12.03 p.m. Agree. We need to follow the request for rational debate by McAuley (someone posted that above but I'm a bit to lazy to scroll up and see who - I will also come back to that.) Jackson, however is another symptom of the MSM approach. She was courted and given lots of coverage by the MSM against Thompson but it appears she is not squeaky clean herself. The union members obviously know what is going on as no Jackson supporters have won key positions in the recent elections (as far as I know - someone correct me if I'm wrong). McAuley's post about having a rational debate was aimed at the "right" and here's Henderson confirming the argument. We should each engage the rational path and not sink to the depths of the likes of Henderson, the MSM and a certain leader of "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition".

Pikiranku

18/12/2012The little toad indeed! Does Henderson think we're SO dumb that we'll be influenced by his sour little diatribe? Or intimidated by his insults? Dumb women of Australia Unite!!

Michael

18/12/2012Lady in Red. Re the misparaphased quote by Henderson from Justice Rare's judgment, I support your reading of the passage, that Justice Rares is assessing what Ashby believed could happen as a result of his actions against Peter Slipper, not asserting his own opinion as an officer of the judiciary what would by necessity happen in a hung parliament house as an unavoidable consequence of Ashby's actions. In typical Henderson style he wanders all over the shop in his article, and in typical Henderson style, he concludes, 'I told you so, if you weren't listening, it's not my fault', by now asserting Blind Freddy could have told you post-election in 2010 that this current government would run full term, and that he, Henderson, did. Problem is, he may have. Problem is, the way he writes, he might have said anything, and probably did. And then something else, which boils down to "I told you so, if you weren't listening, it's not my fault".

MWS

18/12/2012Ben Eltham from New Matilda: [quote]Later that day, Abbott was out and about providing comment at a doorstop interview in Hervey Bay. He made all the same points. "The Speakership is one of the most important offices in the Parliament," he told journalists. "The Speaker is there to uphold the integrity of the Parliament and now we have very, very serious allegations against the incumbent Speaker." "He is the guardian of the standards of the Parliament, the protector of the reputation of the Parliament and now there are these extremely serious allegations against him …" Comments like these are the appropriate place to begin asking questions of the Opposition Leader. If he really believes the office of the Speaker is so important, it is now incumbent upon him to take action against an influential member of his own party who conspired to damage it. After all, we now know the allegations that Abbott made so much of back in April did indeed damage the reputation of the office of Speaker. It’s a fair bet they contributed to continuing erosion of the standing of parliament in the public mind too. And they were cooked up by a disgruntled staffer acting in concert with an LNP candidate for the Parliament. Tony Abbott must act to disassociate himself and the Liberal Party from Mal Brough. Brough must be stood down as the LNP’s candidate for Fisher. Anything less condones — and indeed rewards — a key player in a conspiracy against the Speaker of the House that resulted in an abuse of the Federal Court. If Tony Abbott is serious about preserving "the integrity of the Government and our institutions", as he said he was on 21 April, nothing less will suffice.[/quote] http://newmatilda.com/2012/12/18/abbott-must-sack-brough-over-ashby

nasking

18/12/2012 [b]And now we have yet another mad massacre. I feel that all these issues are connected, that there's something particular about American society that produces these detached and angry people. It's not enought to tighten the gun laws. That should happen, of course - guns provide the wherewithal. But there's got to be more to it than that, a reason why American society so often engenders such blind rage. And it's a cop-out to just label it as 'evil' and carry on as normal. America needs to indulge in some profound and probably painful self-examination. And we need to be very careful of what we become here.[/b] Pikiranku, this is why I worry about Abbott's approach to leadership...this 'do anything, say anything' to get attention mentality...whilst catering to corporate celebrity...holding this new aristocracy and these toff schools up as examples of 'greatness', as 'treasures'...which I feel undermines the Australian attitude that whatever work you did, no matter how much money and assets you owned, you were as good as the next person. We have become such a class-ridden society...just like America now...where you feel that no matter what effort you put in you will not be given the same rights, protection, opportunities as these so called 'wealth creators'...these corporate aristocrats...these children produced as part of wealthy dynasties. If you are one of their CHOSEN FEW...like Nicole Kidman...Hugh Jackman...Alan Jones...Shane Warne...the CELEBRITY ARISTOCRACY...then you can virtually get away with murder...and politicians, educational and legal toffs oft kowtow to them like they were Pharaohs reborn. What chance have YOU for a state funeral? No matter how much volunteer work you do...no matter how much you contribute to your neighbourhood, your community...how talented you are. Stuff all. This is not about envy...it's about the PRIORITIES OF THE CHOSEN FEW AND THEIR PRIVILEGED MASTERS. The ceiling they erect in order to keep you in your place. The governments they put in place to ensure you work until you drop...pay out to finance organisations your entire life never feeling like you truly own anything...as the banking elite roll in your cash...rubbing shoulders with our elected representatives...being provided with special meetings you will never get access to. And Tony Abbott thinks its fine to talk about 'individual responsibility' when he shows none himself...rather than using his elected position to compromise and pass legislation that will benefit the public good...he prefers to act like a fanatical, attention-craving celebrity...whilst simultaneously attacking the union movement that helped to bring forth so many beneficial policies and programs and protections for THE MANY. Abbott is a man of stunts...someone who craves the limelight. What kind of example is that to your Aussie kid who sees years of hard yakka and possible mountains of debt to pay off before them? Instead of him showing them a secure foundation via respect for Medicare, affordable public education and training, various safety nets...and public service jobs that can offer security and a sense of well-being if you put the effort in to provide positive and useful services...he is telling them to get out and do voluntary work in order to get attention...to not worry about the future of their healthcare, their careers, their education, their welfare because the marketplace will take care of that...the same markets that gave us the GFC. And gawd knows how many other rollercoaster rides. Abbott's example is to act like a petulant, gimme gimme gimme, sore loser, holler when annoyed, rant and moan when you are blocked celebrity wanker...who has no worries about the example he's providing to youth... it's DESTROY YOUR OPPONENTS whatever it takes...DESTROY WHATEVER GETS IN YOUR WAY...an attitude that young men in America have been observing from certain corporate, political, legal, religious and media characters for years now... and we can see how healthy that country has become. Humility, recognition of the efforts of the many, empathy for others outside our experiences, providing opportunities whilst recognising the potential and skills of all community's participants, respecting their contributions, and comprehending the fears of each and assisting them to feel positive and useful rather than manipulating those fears for gain...are attitudes and approaches that seem to have fallen to the wayside in these past few decades where leaders seem more interested in persuading the bulk of the populace to invest in risky business...whilst bailing out the privileged...who themselves oft create the instability...and seem more averse to risk and adore their safe-bets in a rigged system...they pretend is beneficial to THE MANY...whilst sucking the well dry by way of boondoggles and tax evasion. No amount of volunteer bike riding for charity is going to provide millions with free and affordable cancer treatment...and a scheme to assist the millions not as 'able' as others. Nor will it provide a unwell young man who feels like a nobody, who feels he has no chance, in a mad rush to the top society, who has access to guns a sense of well-being...but when he sees leaders acting like petulant children...DOING AND SAYING ANYTHING TO GET ATTENTION...but avoiding JUSTICE simultaneously....and getting FREE RIDES in the MSM...he might think that DOING SOMETHING EXTREME might get him the ATTENTION HE CRAVES...even if he's not around to see it. And no amount of free speech...and talk about pull yerself up by yer bootstraps...nor throwing him into the guilt-ridden, bigoted pews of religion, nor fear-invoking boot camp, nor sugar-laden nationalism, nor celebrity adoration is going to make up for the HELP a more caring, compassionate, well-serviced, gun-free, woken to superstition society could provide. One that VALUES... rather than DEMEENS. For profit. N'

MWS

18/12/2012Twitter is wonderful - I'm getting links to everything! I can't believe this is a Murdoch paper - perhaps he's too busy at the moment to read it? Or perhaps "angry, old white men" don't understand satire? [quote]Then there's the blackfellas, the spastics, the homeless, the women who didn't know their place and copped a well-deserved backhander - all of them with their own ginger groups prosecuting a case for special treatment. Whinging lefty mendicants whose understanding of free enterprise extends as far as the next taxpayer handout. Bludgers, parasites and social engineers who, given half the chance, would ban Christmas on the grounds it might offend the towel-heads and then stop you emptying a clip of .223 at the billy in the back yard without a permit. Or something like that. What this once great country needs is someone to stand up for angry, old, white men.[/quote] http://www.couriermail.com.au/spike/columnists/a-lunatic-tea-party-with-a-can-do-attitude-writes-paul-syvret/story-fn5hj90f-1226538588834

MWS

18/12/2012Loved this cartoon: http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/opinion/cartoons/david-pope-20120214-1t3j0.html

LadyInRed

18/12/2012 If you can stomach it here is the article by Henry Ergas referred to by Ackerman (venomous creep). It's full of inacuracies, but no doubt Ergas thinks he is oh so very smart with his opening lines. This is supposed to be people we are meant to take seriously? I think not. It was paywalled but you can get to it via Google. Who would pay for crap like this? http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/desparate-pms-war-has-failed-her-own-gender/story-fn7078da-1226537935706

LadyInRed

18/12/2012Sorry that link doesn't work. But I got to it by puting the heading into google. If you want to read it here it is, but be warned, its a dose of mysogyny. [i]LITTLE Miss Bossy tells everyone what to do. Little Miss Naughty is badly behaved. And Little Miss Fickle breaks her promises. But no one is as scary as Little Miss Ogyny, especially when she goes on the attack. Not that she understands the difference between ad hominem and ad nauseam. Nor is she shy of veering into a Little Miss Statement. For despite all the noise Julia Gillard makes about gender women achieved far greater progress under the Howard government than they have under Labor. Since Labor came to power, the female unemployment rate has risen from 4.4 to 5.2 per cent. And surveys show women feel more at risk of losing their job now than at any point in the Howard years. At the same time, the female labour force participation rate has stagnated. Between April 1996 and November 2007, it increased from 53.8 per cent to 58.5 per cent. But Labor's election basically stopped that rise, and five years on it still sits at 58.7 per cent. ...As for the gap between annual female and male full-time earnings, it has increased by $3848. And while that has happened the cost of living for families has taken off, with utilities bills rising at an unprecedented 12.5 per cent a year, childcare charges increasing at over 8 per cent a year and health and education fees rising to a rate of 5.5 per cent. But the real risks for women go beyond those immediate concerns. For few changes have made a greater contribution to women's wellbeing than the labour market deregulation Gillard and her union backers are determined to reverse. Until the 1990s, employment conditions for more than 80 per cent of workers were determined by awards. At unions' insistence, those awards routinely set limits on part-time jobs, including by prohibiting the recruitment of part-timers if any unemployed union members were seeking full-time jobs. With few flexible opportunities, women faced a stark choice: work full-time or not at all, entrenching low participation. Freeing up the labour market helped dramatically change that picture. In 1966, 8 per cent of working age women worked part-time; by 2007 it had increased to 25 per cent. And the increase was even greater for younger generations: of the women born in 1936, fewer than 10 per cent were in part-time work at age 34; in contrast, more than 40 per cent of women born in 1976 worked part-time at that age. As the share of women in full-time employment has increased only 3 percentage points since the 1960s, that growth of part-time work accounts for rising female labour force participation. Far from disliking part-time work, only 5 per cent of the overall workforce would prefer to move from part-time to full-time jobs: that is less than half the number who would like to move the other way. Moreover, measures of job satisfaction, subjective wellbeing and work-life balance are all significantly above average for women in part-time work, and especially for those with partners who work full-time. It is unsurprising part-time work scores so highly, for its increased availability opened new scope to earn an income while having a family. After all, study after study finds today's young women don't simply decide to have children: they choose to be a mother, because of the satisfactions that brings. A flexible labour market allows women both their own income and continuity of work experience. Mothers have chosen that option in droves. Of women aged 25 to 44 who work part-time, 60 per cent do so to care for children; and 70 per cent of working mothers with children under the age of five work part-time. All that contrasts sharply with Europe's highly regulated labour markets. There, restrictions on working conditions prevent the private sector from creating the jobs women want. Public spending and public employment have therefore accounted for almost all the gains women have made, at an unsustainable cost in terms of tax burdens and stunted productivity. No wonder, then, that in a recent survey of women's labour market performance two left-leaning American academics, Harvard professor Torben Iversen and Yale professor Frances Rosenbluth, conclude "female participation rates tend to be lower in countries with strong unions, while in economies with fluid labour markets women are better able to compete on an equal footing with men". The Gillard agenda, captive as it is to the unions, is consequently hardly favourable to women. Yet Gillard's gender war has nothing to do with sound economics. Its immediate aim appears to be to shut off tough questioning about the AWU affair; but there is a wider political message as well. At the 2010 election, Labor's vote from women was 8 per cent higher than would be expected, given voting patterns overall. That partly reflected women's favourable response to a female prime minister; naturally, Labor wants to preserve that edge. But it is smaller and more precarious than it seems. In 2010, women didn't especially like Gillard: her overall approval was no higher than women's approval of Howard in 2007, and some 17 per cent lower than women's 2007 support for Kevin Rudd. Moreover, while women did prefer Gillard to Abbott, the gap was far smaller than the difference between their 2007 approval of Howard and Rudd. And women expressed greater disapproval than men of Rudd's removal. Labor would therefore be foolhardy to count on women's votes; and no matter how strongly it resonates with "the sisterhood", railing against male chauvinism is unlikely to drown out the realities of rising bills and mounting job insecurity. Nor will it erase the memory of a government that, from "computers in schools" on, created expectations it could never deliver or overcome the discomfort episodes such as the AWU affair create. And it risks further alienating male voters, where Labor's position is dire. But Gillard is down to the last throws of the dice. Commanding power but not authority, her response is to transform every issue into a clash of absolutes. Few tactics seem less likely to succeed, while the political hypertrophy it causes invites economic and social atrophy as it freezes all credible reform. Ever shriller in tone, our Little Miss Ogyny ends the year as she began: howling at the moon. And not even Little Miss Magic can wave her crisis away. [/i]

nasking

18/12/2012 Obviously 'demeens' should have been: demeans 3rd person singular present of de·mean (Verb) Verb Cause a severe loss in the dignity of and respect for (someone or something). Do something that is beneath one's dignity. (Google) N'

LadyInRed

18/12/2012 This tweet from PeterFoster@PeterFosterALP @TheKouk Since #Labor won in 2007, female employment up 445,800; female wages up 20.3%; prices (CPI) up 14.3%." #auspol #wapol

LadyInRed

18/12/2012MWS re the cartoon.....chilling.

LadyInRed

18/12/2012MWS re: A lunatic tea-party with a Can-do attitude. What a great piece.....are they are Scary with a capital "S". TAbbott supported Barnardi, says a lot. Thanks for the link.

LadyInRed

18/12/2012Tony only opens his mouth to change feet these days: [i]Tony Abbott says only the 'right' kids should stay at school after year 10 [/i] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/education/tony-abbott-says-only-the-right-kids-should-stay-at-school-after-year-10/story-fn59nlz9-1226207999721

nasking

18/12/2012 LadyInRed...Jason, that kind of hate expressed towards our PM reminds me of the venom we've seen spat at Obama for so long...whether it be Hannity or Limbaugh or Malkin or Palin or Trump...it's truly loopy adolescent stuff: Speaking of madness: [b]The night before the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, the Republican-dominated State house in Michigan voted to ease its concealed carry law. The new Michigan law allows legal gun owners to tote their weapons into such notorious venues of disputation as child care centres, hospitals, churches, synagogues and mosques, schools up to tertiary level, and more traditional sources of danger such as bars and entertainment venues with 2,500-plus seats. The state, home to nearly 10 million people, has issued some 400,000 concealed-carry licenses. Four other states are mulling whether to allow licensed gun owners to carry their weapon of choice to work, providing they leave it in their vehicle. According to Bloomberg news, 17 other states have approved this type of law since 2003. The guns-to-work movement started in 2002 in Oklahoma with a bill sponsored by Jerry Ellis, a Democrat. “Well,” he told a reporter in 2008, by way of justification for taking a gun to work, “you don’t ever know when somebody’s going to come along.” It was written and passed because politicians like Ellis were scared. Scared of their fellow countrymen, and especially, scared of the National Rifle Association. The NRA’s capacity for vindictiveness and revenge knows no bounds. Debra Maggart, a leading Republican in the Tennessee state assembly, had followed the NRA line on every vote concerning gun control, until she sided with business and voted against the proposed guns-to-work legislation; the NRA promptly helped force her pre-selection defeat, describing her on billboards as a killer of gun rights. THE WEAPON ADAM LANZA USED at Sandy Hook Elementary was a Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle, with several 30-round magazines. The rifle had been registered in the name of Lanza’s mother Nancy, the first person the 20-year-old killed in his Friday morning rampage. This weapon would have been illegal under a federal law that expired in 2004. Senator Feinstein’s 1994 Assault Weapons Ban applied a 10-round limit to the magazines that feed semi-automatics. The law had a 10-year life, with Congress given the option of renewing it. But the influence and fear of the NRA ensured no politician would resurrect it; the ban passed into history. When the ban expired in 2004, the previous limit of 10-round magazines for semi-automatic weapons no longer applied in some states. Automatic weapons, those that reload themselves and keep firing until the trigger is released, are not banned in the United States; they are subject to restrictions on their sale and purchase. Semi-automatics will self-reload with each pull of the trigger. The Assault Weapons Ban banned their manufacture. That no longer applies and they can be constructed and sold with relative impunity. James Holmes, who shot and killed 12 people in his July mass shooting at the Colorado cinema, used a 100-round magazine he had legally purchased online.[/b] http://www.theglobalmail.org/blog/can-americans-force-an-assault-on-weapons/524/ Reminds me of a country in denial...fear-driven...persuaded by libertarian conspiracy nuts and gun-selling profiteers to let the insanity grow exponentially... a nation afraid of invasion...a sense of insecurity and paranoia pushed by those who prefer to 'divide' than heal. I see and hear Tony Abbott, Scott Morrison, Julie Bishop and others doing this by way of their supportive media outlets on a daily basis... playing on people's fears about asylum seekers... pretending it's about caring for the welfare of refugees...rather than about scoring political points... as tho they care about foreign aid delivery when it's more about providing funds for useful missionary work...Christian brainwashing of the unbelievers...moulding overseas youth into observers of the twin GODS Capitalism via Free Markets and Christianity... all the time playing the stubborn NO NO NO game...no compromise day in and day out...WE KNOW WHAT WORKS...WE KNOW WHAT WILL STOP THE BOATS...WE PUT IN PLACE THE RIGHT POLICIES BEFORE... WE KNOW WE KNOW WE KNOW How much does it sound like pontificating from the church pulpit...the arrogance, the certainty, the fanatical determination to be right? WE KNOW THAT GOD WANTS YOU TO BE MARRIED BEFORE HAVING SEX WE KNOW THAT GOD WANTS YOU TO LIVE WITHOUT USING CONTRACEPTION WE KNOW THAT GOD WANTS MARRIAGE TO BE BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN WE KNOW THAT GOD IS ON G. W. BUSH'S SIDE WE KNOW THAT NOAH PUT TWO OF EVERY ANIMAL IN HIS BOAT WE KNOW THERE WAS ADAM AND EVE WE KNOW THAT GOD FAVOURS GOOD WHITE CHRISTIAN MEN WE KNOW THE PLAGUE IS GOD'S PUNISHMENT FOR SIN WE KNOW THAT THERE IS A HEAVEN Time passes...and the WE KNOWS get proven to be wrong. Frankly, I don't want to live in a country run by religious fanatics and those who obey them...where WE KNOW becomes EVEN IF WE GOT IT WRONG WE HAVE MEDIA EMPIRES AND LEGAL AND POLICE MATES TO CRUSH YOUR DISSENT. The Coalition can stick their WE KNOW 'broad church' where the sun don't shine. N'

bob macalba

18/12/2012Thanks Jason piers is a F#^ING reptile, i detest the vile creature, no doubt any 'facts or figures' he's trotting out will under closer scrutiny be labeled in a word...;BULLSHIT, who actually believes his shite? what sort of person would be a piers fan? not somebody i would share a beer with words fail me without having to swear... i just loath the toad

bob macalba

18/12/2012another story to help keep this scandal in the public minds, a bit lame on analysis but the gist is there to help maintain the rage http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4433704.html#comments

Ad astra reply

18/12/2012Folks After five hours of mowing today, it was a joy to watch the final session of the cricket with iPad in hand looking at your informative comments and links. Thank you for keeping the pot boiling. With another hour of mowing to go and lots of trimming of the lavender and tea tree tomorrow, I'm calling it a day - it's time to refresh for another busy day.

LadyInRed

18/12/2012Nasking they sold more guns today in the US than they have in the last year. A nation grieving? Clearly not all.

KHTAGH

18/12/2012bob macalba Did you take time out to read the comments on that article? There are some pretty fired up people in those comments, making very good points of just how serious this all is, well worth a read if you & anyone else have the time.

nasking

18/12/2012 [b]After five hours of mowing today[/b] The key to a long life. :) We should call Ad, SUPER AD. Crikey! Five hours. I'm lucky if I can sleep that long. :) N'

nasking

18/12/2012 [b]they sold more guns today in the US than they have in the last year. A nation grieving? Clearly not all.[/b] LadyInRed, the sign of a nation divided...running on distrust, cynicism, conspiracy, paranoia, blood rushes to the head, a cowboy attitude. Certainly not one I have any interest in visiting anymore. You don't need to be a fortune teller to see America's cards are gonna be coming up DEATH and TRAGEDY a heckuva lot more times before they wake up. Once gun fever takes hold of the masses... and irrational fears about 'outsiders'...and a coming apocalypse... it can't end well. Let's hope we can immunise Australia...protect it from the excesses of the libertarian nut bag fever dream. N'

Tom of Melbourne

18/12/2012Isn't it great to see the government diverting our cash from wasteful foreign aid to our domestic priorities??!! This is a government with such a clear sense of direction.

Ad astra reply

19/12/2012 Folks I hear that Tony Abbott’s reaction to the Rares judgement was mentioned on ABC News this morning and was the top story on AM. This man, who wants to be the PM of this nation, this man who had a condemnatory press release out early on the morning the James Ashby claim against Peter Slipper first appeared in the News Limited press (which some claim was prepared before the story broke), admitted on AM that a full week after the judgement was handed down, [b]he has not read it![/b] Just as he hadn’t read the BHP Billiton press release on the Olympic Dam suspension before his ‘famous’ interview with Leigh Sales. His excuse today was that he hadn’t had time to read it. Why? Because he is overseas ‘doing important work’ for the people of Australia! Can you believe this? Yes, you can. Abbott is running true to form, showing once again that he is unfit for high office. It’s not yet up on the AM website, but should be up soon. It looks as if the MSM has not yet buried this matter.

Ad astra reply

19/12/2012Folks Here is the link that leads to the audio of the [i]AM[/i] item: http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3657345.htm This is the introductory text: [i]”08:00:00 19/12/2012 Abbott hasn't read Slipper judgement The Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says he hasn't yet read the Federal court judgement which threw out the sexual harrassment case against the former speaker, Peter Slipper. For months, the Federal Opposition leader questioned the Prime Minister's judgement, for installing Mr Slipper in the job. Despite his interest in the case Mr Abbott says he hasn't had time to read the legal judgement because he's been too busy overseas visiting Afghanistan and the UK. [/i] The full transcript will be available later.

2353

19/12/2012AA - one word - "unbelievable". Apart from the furphy of "doing important work for Australia" (which was also played on News Breakfast), Abbott is clearly trying to downplay the story here. The implication is that the LNP can't use the Slipper saga anymore, so they will just roll out the next one.

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

19/12/2012 DWM: Thank you for passing on info. from your ‘hotline to the inside’. Some developments along these lines would make political life very interesting and possibly more palatable. MWS: Am glad you are discovering some of the strengths of the Twittersphere. It really is a fabulous source of information as well as a ‘campaign’ tool that TT puts to great effect with his ‘stomp chants’ :-) and Lyn with her linking. Lady in Red: Thank you for the Ergas article. Ugh. Bernard Keane of Crikey has described as extraordinary the lack of #msm challenge to its disrespect for the PM and chauvinistic language. Not to mention its childishness. That it is published at all is extraordinary. Today is a lovely day, indeed Ad with the Abbott maintaining his statesmanlike lack of interest in reading. He hasn’t read Judge Rares judgment! This means that of course Brough has behaved well, until Tony is back in Australia, has read the judgment and can then drop the requisite ton of bricks on Brough – for Xmas. Wouldn’t want to be Brough. (On the other hand, the LNP will fight hard to ‘save’ Brough’s endorsement because if he stands, he wins the seat hands down.) Some short reading refs mostly from Twitter sources and from bloggers and indies. Apologies if doubling up on any already posted. [b]New report shows carbon tax is working[/b] ABC Radio A new report shows the carbon tax is working and greenhouse gas emissions are down. [ABCBreakfast audio] http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/new-report-shows-carbon-tax-is-working/4433206 … [b]Biased newspaper reporting on the carbon pricing mechanism[/b] David Karoly et al. Australian print media have been criticised for inaccurately reporting the carbon pricing mechanism (CPM) excerpt https://theconversation.edu.au/biased-newspaper-reporting-on-the-carbon-pricing-mechanism-11373 … [b]Journos are idiots[/b] Gordon’s Thoughts If there is a conspiracy involving the LNP regarding James Ashby, it will come out sooner or later...excerpt http://gordonsthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/journos-are-idiots-im-outraged-journos-arent-covering-the-big-political-cover-up-involving-our-opponents/ … [b]North Coast Voices[/b] Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's disapproval rating climbs to the second highest in Nielsen poll history. http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/as-year-ends-opposition-leader-tony.html [b]The Bloke in the Pub[/b] #5 Archie Achive 'Didja hear that Abbott guy I really dislike is not liked by many people at all.' Bloke in the Pub http://archiearchive.wordpress.com/2012/12/18/the-bloke-in-the-pub-5/ … [b]Lies, damn lies and sour grapes[/b] Barry Tucker Tony Abbott almost won the 2010 election. He almost won the negotiations with the Independents. But he lost both and he’s been pissed off ever since. http://thesnipertakesaim.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/lies-damned-lies-and-sour-grapes/ [b]Abbott. Master of spin[/b] Yosef Albric ...art of spin is to say nothing whilst appearing to say something. Abbott is a master...excerpt http://yosefalbric.wordpress.com/2012/12/16/abbott-master-of-spin/ [b]No Specific Knowledge: Tony Abbott and AshbyGate[/b] [Superb timeline by a Brisbane barrister tracking the story in tweets] http://storify.com/BowlerBarrister/no-specific-knowledge-tony-abbott-and-ashbygate … [b]Which of these men is stable?[/b] 1petermcc …now we have Tony Abbott, and all of a sudden using Howard as the low end bench mark seems a little optimistic… http://1petermcc.wordpress.com/ [b]The lacklustre Liberals[/b] Barry Everingham The man[Abbott] is a disgrace to his party, to the Parliament and the country...excerpt http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/the-lacklustre-liberals/ … [b]How expensive is the NBN?[/b] Steve Jenkin The billions spent to fund the NBN seem almost trivial when one factors in the social benefits...excerpt http://www.technologyspectator.com.au/how-expensive-nbn … [b]State treasurers to Swan: Collect more GST[/b] Peter Martin State Treasurers are to push for the first significant extension of the GST ...' http://www.petermartin.com.au/2012/12/its-serious-push-for-more-gst-today.html … [b]Crikeys: the best and worst of the year in politics[/b] Crikey Bill Shorten gets the gong for passage of Future of Financial Advice (FOFA) reforms [v] mindless obstructionism http://coffsoutlook.com/2012-crikeys-the-best-and-worst-of-the-year-in-politics [b]2013 Federal Election Calendar[/b] Antony Green For those interested in picking the date of the 2013 Federal election...excerpt http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2012/12/2013-federal-election-calender.html … [b]List of assets owned by Newscorp[/b] Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_News_Corporation …

jaycee

19/12/2012One can see an agreed tactical ploy between the LNP. and the MSM. on the Justice Rares decision. There obviously has been meetings between the relevant parties to thrash out a ploy of playing-down in collusion with eachother and in unison with eachother. The 'Joint-speak" opinion pieces from both parties demonstrates collusion in the conspiricy AND it is therefore a continuing conspiricy that has more to come. I suspect the govt' is currently seeking constitutional legal advice on the interpretation of sedition laws and will act on the Justices' findings in the new year. Let us not forget that a good stew needs a long cook!....As I said in an earlier post..: I think Julia Gillard will spend some time basting these turkeys AND if I might add to the metaphor, give them a thorough STUFFING! before serving them up as a cold-collition!

Ken

19/12/2012just a couple of comments on varous comments First, re guns in the US. I recall a cartoon from many years ago which suggested the "right to bear arms" was a typo - "bare arms"!! More seriously, I also read an article which suggested there were ways to limit access to arms without breaching the "right" enshrined in the US Constitution. Courts, when interpreting law often take into account the "intention" of the legislature. In the case of the "right to bear arms", it was intended that militias could quickly be assembled to defend the new Republic. The writer suggested that this could legally be met by weapons being kept securely in a communal facility and only accessed when a threat arose. Similarly, citizens could undetake militia training and only have access to the weapons at that training. Bascially, he was saying that the "intent" of the right to bear arms does not legally require that every individual should have access to weapons at any time. But no American politician or court has yet had the courage to say that this is the real intent of the Constitutional right. And I agree that Abbott is at it again. Can you imagine a PM that doesn't read anything!!!!! As an ex-Public Servant, I could name a few Ministers (unfortunately from both sides) who didn't bother reading briefs and they were the ones who caused no end of trouble when we, as Public Servants, were left to implement ideas that had not been thought through. In one instance, we briefed a Minister on a proposal that would have cost about $50-100,000. We know he didn't read the brief and pushed ahead with his own approach which cost well over $500,000 and led to a number of other social problems in the community involved. If Abbott ever became PM (God forbid!) and behaved in the same way, the impact on the Budget and social issues would be incredible (in the true meaning of the word, viz., difficult or impossible to believe). His failure to read things is an indication that is exactly what he would be like and the Australian electorate needs to know that.

jaycee

19/12/2012One thing I can gaurantee to Tony Abbott though....With the scorn and personal insults he and his cohorts have poured upon the PM. and her family...and on the evidence we quite commonly see in the news about women repaying hurt and insult to males in the plebian suburbs with terrible "rough-justice"....It would do the opposition well to remember who is in charge of the nation and who is best situated to bring the full force of the law down on BOTH the guilty parties in the LNP. AND the MSM. In my experience,the longer the female mind takes to deliberate on a course of retribution against an injustice, the more devastating and final it is!...and to THAT I say ; Ms. Gillard;PM. do your damnest-finest!

DMW

19/12/2012Jaycee thanks, your comments are so much easier to read :)

Michael

19/12/2012"I haven't read it." Bad Abbott. Even the dimmest of Conservative Australian voters will have to ask themselves soon do they really want a PM who doesn't read? Or does not reading allow, as a political strategy, a politician to 'honestly' say he has "no specific knowledge"? If this is so, then we can confidently assume that, should he become PM, Abbott won't read briefing papers or anything else in text that might be useful to running a country. We already know he applies this principle to formulating Coalition policy. He hasn't read it because it's not there to read, and besides, it's everything John Howard did and 'we told you at the last election'. "No specific knowledge". "I haven't read it". Shouldabeen's mottos. But they can no longer be trotted out as 'get out of jail free' cards. This bloke has to answer the questions he's asked. He might like to explain how he was happy to be a guest at Peter Slipper's wedding a year or two back, but today describes him as a "squalid individual" as if he was ever thus.

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

19/12/2012 Ad, Ken, Jaycee: The more I think about the non-reading Abbott the more I think his response is deliberate, a cooked-up strategy (with Peta) to stall on addressing any action required; to stall across the festive season too, perhaps in the hope the story will lose some heat. But usually, when the LNP go quiet on any issue/s it is only while they are plotting when and how to fire off the next sleazy attack. Are the media complicit? David Horton, Watermelon Man, has just posted this fine piece of analysis of Press Gallery culture and behaviour on his blog: [b]The Three and a Half[/b] David Horton The proprietors of the media have moved to the Right and taken their staff with them. As a result, these days journalists have a much closer sense of common beliefs, goals, tactics, teamwork, with the conservative parties of the Coalition and the more conservative members of the government. Which in turn has led to even more team bonding and confusion of roles. http://davidhortonsblog.com/2012/12/19/the-three-and-a-half/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheWatermelonBlog+%28The+Watermelon+Blog%29

Ad astra reply

19/12/2012Folks Here is the full transcript of the [i]AM[/i] item: [i]Abbott hasn’t read Slipper judgement[/i] [i]TONY EASTLEY: The Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says he hasn't yet read the Federal Court judgement which threw out the sexual harassment case against the former speaker Peter Slipper.

 For months the Federal Opposition Leader questioned the Prime Minister's judgement for installing Mr Slipper in the job. Despite his interest in the case Mr Abbott says he hasn't had time to read the legal judgement because he's been too busy overseas visiting Afghanistan and the UK.

 With more here's chief political correspondent Sabra Lane.

 SABRA LANE: A week ago today justice Steven Rares threw out the court case against the former speaker Peter Slipper. In a damning judgement the justice found to allow the case to continue would have been an abuse of the court process.

 Justice Rares was scathing too of those at the centre of the case. He found that James Ashby, the man who made the claims against Mr Slipper, acted in combination with the former Howard government minister Mal Brough to advance the interests of the LNP and Mr Brough in bringing the case to court.

 In London overnight Mr Abbott was asked if that was a damning assessment for Mr Brough.

 TONY ABBOTT: Look, I haven't read it. I am confident that he has acted rightly at all times. 

 REPORTER: And why haven't you read that judgement?

 TONY ABBOTT: Because I am doing very important things for the people of Australia here in this country right now.
 SABRA LANE: Contrast that with the morning the Peter Slipper sex allegations broke in April. Mr Abbott's office sent out a media release at 9.17 that morning calling the allegations tawdry. The release said that Mr Slipper should stand aside while the allegations were dealt with by the courts.

 Despite the court findings against Mr Brough the Opposition Leader says the former minister will continue to be the LNP's candidate in Fisher at the next election, which is Mr Slipper's electorate.

 The former speaker is yet to say whether he'll stand again.

 TONY ABBOTT: Mal is a friend of mine. Mal was a colleague of mine. I look forward to having Mal as a colleague of mine again. He's been pre-selected by the Liberal National Party. I look forward to campaigning with him. I look forward to winning the seat.

 SABRA LANE: Mr Abbott has been overseas for the past week and hasn't faced the same level of media questioning that he would expect if he'd been in Canberra. 

 On AM on Friday the Prime Minister Julia Gillard attacked Mr Abbott over his choice of words in defending Mr Brough. 

 The Leader of the Opposition said his friend had been "up-front and transparent about the James Ashby case".

 JULIA GILLARD: Well Mr Abbott in saying that is insulting the intelligence of the Australian people. Mr Brough has been involved in using sexual harassment claims as a political tool. In standing by Mr Brough, Mr Abbott is standing by conduct like that. 

Mr Abbott is using weasel words to avoid answering very simple questions here.

 That last point about "weasel words" is a reference to Mr Abbott's oft-repeated response that he had "no specific knowledge" of the case.

 Mr Abbott was pressed about his knowledge overnight:

 REPORTER: Does this suggest you had some knowledge?

 TONY ABBOTT: (Laughs) Look, the fact is that there were always all sorts of rumours swirling around about Mr Slipper. As I've said before, those rumours intensified in the time leading up to the publication of all of that material. I had no specific knowledge of any of this till I read it in the newspaper.

 SABRA LANE: Mr Abbott says the case won't go away as the Prime Minister must answer questions about why she installed Mr Slipper as speaker.

But it will keep haunting Mr Abbott and Mr Brough too, especially Mr Brough, as he initially denied any involvement in the case when the court ruling shows that was far from accurate.

 TONY EASTLEY: Chief political correspondent Sabra Lane.[/i] [b]There you have it folks, weasel words and all, from the man whom all the ‘experts’ in the Canberra Press Gallery insist will be the next PM![/b]

LadyInRed

19/12/2012Not surprised he hasn't read it. He is the type of man who doesn't like facing the truth. Much better to hide, and then use words like 'I had no specific knowledge'. [i]TONY ABBOTT: Mal is a friend of mine. Mal was a colleague of mine.[/i] So was Slipper? What do say to that? Simple statement to put to TAbbott.

jaycee

19/12/2012good read Janet..ta. Knowing, perhaps, that we are preaching to the converted, is it time the fifth estate got smoe sort of 'central collection house' going to sort and collate and deliver corroborated news from the miasma of twitter and goss that flies over boards such as these? Such "clearing houses"..call them "News-Fronts?" could cater to preferred idiosyncratic themes and those 'houses" could then sell their news coupled to the contract you sign up for with your preferred supplier of internet connection. One could accept the "Bigpond" contract with "this" or "that" or even both or several "News-Front" supplier...say : "Crikey" or "New Matildw" or whatever...much like one USED to get several newspapers delivered to your door. BUT...and there is a big ; BUT...such "News-Fronts" would have to maintain quality and integrity...unlike the filth that passes as MSM. news these days!

Ken

19/12/2012Janet - not reading as a political strategy Agree this is highly likely. It follows the pattern of the "children overboard" affair. It is fairly clear Howard's advisers knew that was not true but made sure that Howard did not see the briefs that relayed that information, so he was able to say "truthfully" that he had not been told that doubts about the initial reports had been raised. The role of the political advisers in Ministerial offices is becoming a problem in those terms. They will deliberately keep a Minister out of the loop to avoid the political flack that might follow. It is becoming a general problem, partly because the whole emphasis has shifted to "politics" rather than "policy". And Abbott has been playing that game. While as an observer I can sometimes appreciate the political games, when it comes at the expense of genuine policy (the future of the nation), it has gone too far.

Trevor

19/12/2012So will Tony claim next week that, "of course I had read the judgement, I was confused by the question". Then perhaps Graham Morris could jump point out of course the journalist who asked the question is a " real cow". They really are pathetic.

jaycee

19/12/2012I find it incredible that Mark Scott has kept his job through all this deliberate mis or under-reporting of the Rares decision. Scott is a "dyed-in-the-wool Liberal Party machine man...If he hasn't been briefed on what action to take with the reporting on this affair I'll "Bare my bum in Bourke Street!"..(You'll see me there next to Tabbott, who will offer his for the Lodge Keys!) The bastards are so chummy and miserly AND miserable they all share the same glass and drink at the same club on the same night every week every year....That's why they ALL have the same disease..: Conservatism!

Ad astra reply

19/12/2012Janet, 2353, Ken, jaycee, Michael. Trevor If the ABC has sought to feature this item a week after the Rares judgement that Abbott admits he hasn’t read, and presumably referring to Rares, Abbott adds: [i]”I am confident that he has acted rightly at all times.”[/i], the matter is still alive. It is curious that Abbott says Rares was ‘right’ but still supports Brough whom Rare said ‘acted in combination’ (read conspired) with Ashby to bring the case against Slipper. Abbott is getting onto very slippery ground. But when Abbott returns will there be follow up?

Ad astra reply

19/12/2012Janet Thank you for the links, all of them interesting. I advice all of you to read the piece on [i]The Conversation[/i] which is an academic study of reporting of the ‘carbon tax’ in the MSM. It shows how grossly disingenuous most of it was, especially in the Murdoch press. Note particularly the ‘sources’ of the stories and compare the microscopic input from scientists compared with politicians and businessmen. In other words, the scientific facts were of almost no consequence to the journalists; their stories were built on ‘opinions’. The conclusion, couched in customary modest academic language, reads: [i]”The aim of this research is not to condemn articles and newspapers that are critical or discuss flaws with the pricing mechanism. Rather, the study highlights that the way the media is discussing the mechanism is inadequate: current reporting techniques and standards fail to give the issue the level of analysis required. This means that the overall media coverage does not discuss the need for action on climate change, nor does it balance the short-term economic costs against long-term gains.[/i]. We here would be more likely to conclude: ‘that the papers concerned, especially News Limited, have deliberately and maliciously sought to distort the facts about carbon pricing, have ignored the most reliable and valid sources, all with the partisan political purpose of pushing their anti-carbon tax, anti-climate change, anti-Government, pro-Coalition agenda.’ https://theconversation.edu.au/biased-newspaper-reporting-on-the-carbon-pricing-mechanism-11373

Ad astra reply

19/12/2012LadyinRed I suspect those weasel words will come back to haunt him. The fact that he repeats [i]I had no specific knowledge of the details...[/i] over and again, and journalists keep coming back to the question, suggests to me that like the rest of us, they read them as weasel words intended to obfuscate. The Rares judgement and all the matters pertaining thereto, continue to swirl around Abbott. He may find himself in a vortex that will suck him towards to oblivion.

Ad astra reply

19/12/2012Folks I've got more property work this morning. I'll be back later in the day.

MWS

19/12/2012My electricity will be off for most of today, so I'll have to live in the real world instead. I've downloaded a lot of the links to read on my laptop, but I won't be able to comment until a lot later.

Ken

19/12/2012an addendum to my earlier comment about the role of political advisers. In the current case of Abbott, note that he said he had not "read" the Rares judgment. That doesn't mean his advisers haven't, nor does it mean he hasn't been briefed on it by his advisers. The reporter should have asked whether he had been briefed on the judgment to see whether he could really get out of that one!!

KHTAGH

19/12/2012AA Does anyone have any idea when denigrating a Judges decision in public & on paper as a couple of the right wing nut jobs have done in the last few days, the likes of the toad Akerman & Henderson crosses into contempt of court?

jaycee

19/12/2012I'd like to see Murdoch's papers charged with some seditious crime so that Rupert has to come here to defend himself..then when he's out of the USA. Barak Obama could cancel his passport because of his dirty-deeds there in the election and that would make him a stateless person living on the tarmacs of various airports around the world ..for at least a couple of years...then he could be granted citizenship in Yemen perhaps!

BSA Bob

19/12/2012So Abbott too has "Questions To Answer" Talking to Sabra this morning TONY ABBOTT: (Laughs) I said somewhere a day or three back that Abbott has two laughs, The "You're in trouble" laugh & The "I'm in trouble" laugh I wonder which of the two this was?

LadyInRed

19/12/2012Ad the biased reporting on carbon pricing was well worth the read. As are the comments....."follow the money" is a good case in point. Check out how many ads in each of the newspapers are for big coal and mining and see if that correlates with the type of reporting? Also see if Gina taking a large shareholing in The Age has changed the balance of reporting for those particular papers, we have the data to build and improve on this research.

2353

19/12/2012AA @ 10:25 - You're right, the issue isn't dead. Third item on the Brisbane Times at the time I post this comment is the report of Abbott's selective illiteracy. ww.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-hasnt-read-slipper-judgment-but-stands-by-brough-20121219-2blw7.html

2353

19/12/2012Sorry - try this link ->Www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-hasnt-read-slipper-judgment-but-stands-by-brough-20121219-2blw7.html

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

19/12/2012 Ken: it's lovely to have your insider public servant perspective on not reading/briefing issues. We now have an answer to your question: was Abbott briefed?! [b]Abbott hasn't read Slipper judgment but stands by Brough[/b] Judith Ireland [i]But speaking overnight from London, Mr Abbott told the ABC TV that he had not read the 76-page judgment, explaining he had been doing "very important things for the people of Australia, here in this country right now". Despite not having read the judgment, Mr Abbott said he was confident Mr Brough - who is the LNP candidate in Fisher - had acted "rightly at all times". Mr Abbott added that Mr Brough was a friend and a past colleague... [b]Mr Abbott's office has confirmed that the Opposition Leader has been briefed on the judgment.[/b][/i] http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-hasnt-read-slipper-judgment-but-stands-by-brough-20121219-2blw7.html#ixzz2FSKQkRdJ But he doesn't seem to have been challenged on this aspect of his weaseling yet by anyone in the #msm. jaycee: endlessly delighted by your creative ... strategies. Yes, that would sort Murdoch out good and proper! :-) Your idea, though, for the following has my mind spinning: [i] is it time the fifth estate got smoe sort of 'central collection house' going to sort and collate and deliver corroborated news from the miasma of twitter and goss that flies over boards such as these? Such "clearing houses"..call them "News-Fronts?" could cater to preferred idiosyncratic themes and those 'houses" could then sell their news coupled to the contract you sign up for with your preferred supplier of internet connection.[/i] In lots of ways Lynn's Links, because Ad places them in a separate archive, and because they ARE archived, serve in this kind of clearing-house capacity. The challenge is to help people find them. To do more than this would require extensive people and time resources including, I suspect, a database, appropriate IT geeks, and so on. Selling on information has its complications in terms of ownership, copyright, IP etc. That doesn't mean it wouldn't ultimately be doable, though. A couple of organisations and sites are experimenting with this kind of idea: Newsflock http://blog.newsflock.com/ is one such. But I keep wishing for something such as you've described: a searchable data-based news site, searchable by themes etc. If we could just add fact-checking, and policy collection ... Sometimes I wish we could grab a bunch of us and sit in a room with flipboards and whiteboard and nut out how to make real, and not lose, ideas such as yours ! :-)

jaycee

19/12/2012Read it and weep; For joy...Roy Morgan face to face poll 52-47 Labors way!!

KHTAGH

19/12/20122353 [i]Abbott's selective illiteracy.[/i] I'm starting to wonder if he can read at all, seeing his behavior is best described as a tantrum from spoilt child, I'm wondering if he never got out of having his bed time stories read to him. Maybe that's the only way he gets information about portfolios/policies in parliament, seeing he is overseas his bed time reader is not with him.

LadyInRed

19/12/2012KHAGH Good point. Henderson was very mischieveous in his use of Rares judgement. He is either stupid or a journalist who screws with the data to substantiate his argument....which is it? And this from Ackerman. What goes on in that mans brain to make a claim like this? He is either stupid or dumb as. And more to the point he treats his readers like mushrooms as well. [i]According to the judge’s “firm conclusion”, Ashby’s predominant purpose for bringing the proceedings was to pursue a political attack against Slipper and not to vindicate any legal claim he may have for which the right to bring proceedings exists. Ashby, he said, planned the attack with a co-worker on Slipper’s staff, Karen Doane, and with former LNP MP Mal Brough, who has been pre-selected to run for Slipper’s seat of Fisher at the next election. The judge noted that Ashby and Doane agreed that their action would “tip the government to Mal’s (Brough) and the LNP’s advantage”. Justice Rares did not mention that Slipper’s appointment by Prime Minister Julia Gillard was in itself a wholly political act designed to save her dysfunctional minority government. [/i] Yep.....Ackerman thinks the Judge should have said....oh Ashby, Broughy....if that nasty woman in the lodge hadn't promoted Slipper in the first place you wouldn't have HAD to be a vindictive calculating little backstabber who was not at all upset by any of the texts that were sent. Broughy....didums, did the mean woman in the lodge egg you on? Gee Ackerman Justice Rares dealt with the FACTS brought before the court, fancy that? Oh please.

LadyInRed

19/12/2012KHAGH And then this gem from Ackerman: [i]If this case stands - Ashby has indicated he intends to appeal - then judges will have to carefully examine motive in other cases and certainly when sexual harassment is alleged. Which makes one wonder how the federal government stands with its promised commission into institutional sexual abuse. It appears patently obvious that a significant number of the claims made against the Catholic Church have been made by people whose primary aim is to raise “scandalous and damaging allegations, knowing that they would receive very significant media coverage”. [/i] Yep he linked Ashby who was clealry NOT sexually abused with people who suffered horrific sexual abuse at the hands of the clergy! And yes he has implied motive? Apparently......people just love standing in front of the media telling about horific sexual abuse just so they can inflict as much damage on the Catholic Church, not because they can finally be heard, not because it needs to be heard, not because they were wronged by people who were meant to keep them safe, not because they are angry at having their childhood innocence taken away from them, not because it ruined their lives....nope the world according to Ackerman......they just want to slag off the church for maximum gain! The Daily Telegraph should hang its head in shame for having this type of stuff on their website. And when you read the blurb next to his name they have the cheek to call him one of "the most respected journalists in the country", and whats worse is he believes it.

LadyInRed

19/12/2012Early Christmas present for the PM AND US! wooooohoooo http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4852/

DMW

19/12/2012LadyInRed being a bit bah humbug about christmas I will put on my party pooper hat. The 'experts' at number crunching like Possum reckon that Morgan Face To Face Polls have an inherent 2 - 2.5% bias toward Labor. Taking off the party pooper hat 50/50 has a good feel to it :)

42 long

19/12/2012Right on the trend line. Julia deserves some good news. She's had all the bullshit and has not done the "lay down and die" bit. . People are starting to see they can't believe anything from abbotts lips. saying he hasn't read the Rares finding. Still trying to pretend it doesn't exist. But they are ALL in it. The giant conspiracy. he's been briefed alright. Turnbull(shit) is not a credible replacement . He has his Gretch "faked email" moment plus a little bit of HIH back there. The LieNP are not going to have the merriest of christmasses. Australians are not as stupid as the MSN and Abbott think. Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of conspirators. Where do they go from here?. That really is the BIG question. What could plan "B" be?

Casablanca

19/12/2012 [quote]Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says he has not read the week-old judgment of the Peter Slipper case because he has been doing "very important things for the people of Australia" in Britain.[/quote] Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-hasnt-read-slipper-judgment-but-stands-by-brough-20121219-2blw7.html#ixzz2FSqMhwea Tones obviously can't walk and chew gum at the same time. That's a sterling trait in a Prime Minister - NOT! And what exactly has he achieved for the betterment of Australians during his sojourn in London via Afghanistan? Please explain Tones.

2353

19/12/2012Another "Abbott needs to learn to read" story -> http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/dogged-abbott-caught-in-slips-20121219-2bmax.html

Gravel

19/12/2012I am in awe of many of you here. Just read through yesterday's and today's posts. Some of you must have cast iron stomachs to read some of those people. I feel nauseous just reading the excerpts you have put up. Thank you from this weak willed person who dares not go where Angels fear to tread. And did I read right, a good Morgan poll for Christmas. Won't get the old hopes up too high that people are starting to see the light, but Talk Turkey never fear, I am trying to be optimistic here. I couldn't believe hearing on the ABC news about Abbott not reading the Justice Rares findings. Will the media keep digging? Let us hope so.

Ken

19/12/2012Lady in Red, DMW, 42 long I was about to make the same comment about the Morgan "bias" towards Labor. Despite that, it does continue the upward trend in the Government's polling. I have heard said, that during an election campaign the incumbents can often gain 2-3%. When you add that to the margin of error in polling (usually around 2-3%, sometimes higher), if Labor is down something like 49-51, or even 48-52, going into an election, they will still have a good chance of pulling it off. If they go in at 50-50, I think they will certainly win. The difficulty, always, is how this translates into seat numbers. No doubt the strategists on both sides are counting the seats. Labor is worried about NSW but hopeful of making some gains in Qld, thanks to Campbell Newman. Many things can change in a year but this is looking better and better. Abbott's statement that he had not "read" the judgment is backfiring. While he avoided having to admit he had been briefed it has been picked up by the Government and some sections of the MSM (as noted by other Swordsters) and has now become an issue in its own right. Where to for the Libs? As you say, not a very merry festive season for them - that's one of the best presents I've had! Do they keep Abbott and, if so, how long? Does he have one more chance? Will they look even sillier if they replace him? Who could they replace him with? Do they go for popularity - Turnbull rates highly in the polls but (like Rudd in Labor) was internally unpopular and carries other baggage (42 long). Who do they have? Look at the Opposition front bench and there's not a lot there. Could anyone imagine Bronwyn Bishop or Joe Hockey as leader? Despite the MSM, people do know the difference between popularity and leadership and I think they are slowly beginning to see that the PM is providing the latter (although getting an asylum seekers policy that will lessen opposition in the electorate is still an issue - but continuing to pursue the big issues like the NBN, the dental and disability schemes, etc. will dampen its impact). Yes, a very merry Christmas.

Casablanca

19/12/2012Saw a National Press Club address from Ita Buttrose today (a repeat I think). Ita made the observation that journalists used to report the fact and allow the reader to make their own judgment. Now, journalists provide opinion and few facts to back them up. On a question about the future of journalism, she responded that the business model will have to change to meet the new technology. This has been done successfully in the past. She even suggested that journalists could become self-publishers from their own lounge rooms. Makes me wonder if some journalists might not already do this. That is, they cast off their shackles and blinkers when they leave the MSM Headquarters and go home and moonlight as real journalists via blogs and Twitter. If journalists are not doing this then let's hope that they start to realise the potential.

jaycee

19/12/2012This big attack on Tabbott is vital, because HE is the MSM's man. Get him dumped and you got the MSM. in a bloody big hole without anyway out! The only thing they could do is to parachute in a brand-spanking new leader..like Sinodinas or that bloke from WA. because there is not one person on the front bench could take the running as loto.

Ken

19/12/2012Sorry just a couple more comments on the way politicians can be "briefed". The key is to allow "deniability". A favourite trick on contentious issues that may blow up is that an adviser provides an oral briefing - usually not detailed but in general terms. The politician can then truthfully say they did not receive "a brief" (a formal written brief) on the issue, not that they didn't receive "a briefing" (any form of briefing, either written or oral). Alternately, they can say they do not recall having been told about it - after all, they are busy people and may not remember everything that comes to them orally. No one is then able to prove that an oral briefing was given. Nothing in writing, that is the key to deniability!!!

LadyInRed

19/12/2012Oh I didn't know that about Morgan DMW. Party hat only half on then sitting right next to the party pooper hat. Really the only poll that counts is the one a week or so before the actual election. They wont get rid of TAbbott while he has Newspoll and a whole bunch of journo's giving him the election, no matter how bad his personal ratings are....me thinks.

KHTAGH

19/12/2012Ken If they do dump the Mad Monk & I hope they don't, he is going to scratch like a flaying wild cat if they try. There will be free flowing air-conditioning through a lot of walls in parliament sometime next yr holes in walls everywhere.

Pappinbarra Fox

19/12/2012[quote]presumably referring to Rares, Abbott adds: ”I am confident that he has acted rightly at all times.”,[/quote] It reads that way Ad but LOYO was actually referring to Bough. So, given the scathing judgment about Brough's involvement in abusing the process of justice how can LOTO make this claim? Easily as it turns out - Bough was acting rightly doing anything it takes to bring about the end to this worst government ever. He was simply following orders! He was doing what was required of him. Who, non=specifically, required it of him you may well ask because you can be sure the MSM will not.

KHTAGH

19/12/2012They just don't give up, trying to shift attention from the Mad Monk. [i] The Australian's smear campaign against the Prime Minister hasn't had a lot of new material lately. Having devoted months and acres of newsprint to investigating the minutiae of what Julia Gillard did in the 1990s and not turned up a single actual claim of wrongdoing, the brains trust at Holt St must be ruing that after such a big investment of resources in smearing her, all they got for their troubles was a few points' fall in her approval rating. Still, The Oz didn't get where it is today -- a dying paper for angry old conservative men -- without a willingness to flog a dead horse. So today, it carried over 1000 words on the AWU matter about how there's "a prima facie case that she could have been charged", by one Terry O'Connor.[/i] http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/12/19/the-ozs-awu-commentator-forgets-to-note-his-liberal-past/

Ken

19/12/2012KHTAGH I also hope they don't dump Abbott. As I said in a comment much earlier, he is one of the best things going for the Government in terms of re-election. But what I do like, is that many inside the Libs will now be asking questions, along the lines I suggested. That makes for a discordant Party, which will be music to my ears and the ears of the Government. If Abbott lingers, I imagine, as the election approaches, there will be Government members dropping hints that all is not well on the other side - they may not be public statements but those "off the record" late-night briefings that journalists are so fond of - a "reliable source".

bob macalba

19/12/2012woooohoooo from me too, gonna throw in a yeehaa as well, lots of great links and excellent comments, thankyou to all, LONG LIVE THE 'FIFTH'

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19/12/2012Folks After several hours trimming tea tree and a very late lunch, I come to [i]TPS[/i] and find a host of absorbing comments. Thank you all. The ‘Abbott hasn’t read the Rares judgement’ is getting a good run on ABC radio. I wonder will it get a mention on TV News (ABC and commercial) tonight, and especially on [i]7.30[/i] with Chris Uhlmann in the chair? As journos like to tell us, ‘this story has still a long while to run’. So far it’s Fairfax that has run with the story – has News Limited given it a run? Re Morgan, while we here don’t bestow predictive weight on polls of voting intention this far out from the next election, we can chuckle at the anguish this will cause among Coalition members and Abbott’s staffers, people who dwell on every new poll, when they read Morgan’s comments. While Abbott has been able to wear his worsening unpopularity almost with pride as long as the Coalition was well ahead in the polls, once that is no longer the case, he will be considered a dead weight in the Coalition saddle. Trouble is that they haven’t got an alternative jockey that could ride a winner. Joe Hockey is too heavy, Julie Bishop is a lightweight, Scott Morrison would frighten the horses, and Malcolm Turnbull is wearing the wrong colours. I don’t have an answer to your question at 11.19 AM, KHTAGH.

Pikiranku

19/12/2012Speaking of Malcolm Turnbull's baggage, don't forget the $10 million he slung to the Australian Rain Corporation when the Howard government was in caretaker mode just before the 2007 election. $10 mill for ionisation of clouds, a procedure considered ineffective by all the scientific experts. But Matt Handbury, chairman and part-owner of said Australian Rain Corporation, just happened (coincidentally, of course!) to be a prominent member of Turnbull's fund-raising group, the Wentworth Forum. The man's a crook. And, 50-50 will do me for now.

TalkTurkey

19/12/2012I am ready now to receive plaudits for my universally upbeat prognostications on the relative fortunes of the Government and the Opposition . . . Why Thank you! . . . Thank you . . . Thank you . . . You know why I've never wavered at all? Well partly because I have great faith in *J*U*L*I*A*s ability, and that of the whole Guvnors team . . . . . . Partly because I have great faith in Abbortt's propensity to #*ck up . . . . . . But MAINLY because I just can't feature an Abbortt-led Government in charge of Australia! In the Aussie Rules Football metaphor I have used before, I have long predicted that the Guvnors would be within striking distance of the Coalons by the end of the third quarter . . . which was when Parliament rose, we were a goal down . . . But Abbortt Ashby and Brough roughed gave away a free right on the siren, and Hot Dam, the ump awarded us a free kick after the bell! Here we are AT LEAST LEVEL with the Coalons, PLUS they have a heap of injuries! Abbortt may have to be taken off ... They have no other obvious centreman . and their game plan, so to injure and sideline the Guvnor's stars that the game was done and dusted by half-time, has obviously failed. Meanwhile we have Slipper looking dangerous in attack, Thomson hopefully rested and hitting his straps soon, and [i]all members of the team winning their positions[/i] . . . It's a question now of how many goals we win by. As long as it's a clear win though I don't care. But I hope it is enough to change the cheating play-the-man culture. Seven goals should do it!

LadyInRed

19/12/2012[i]But no, apparently, it’s escaped your notice, Tony, even though you assert that you are confident that Broughie, The Mal, Maaalster – LNP candidate in Fisher – has acted “rightly at all times”. He must be a bloody good mate [/i] http://thehoopla.com.au/doing-important-things/

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19/12/2012Folks I'm compiling a list of journalists in Australia's MSM who comment on politics in Australia, to incorporate into the [i]TPS Mail[/i] service that Web Monkey and I are building. I've done a Google Search with limited success and have come up with a small list so far (see below). I suppose one could guess some email addresses at [i]The Australian[/i] as they seem to follow a formula. For example, I imagine Paul Kelly's address is kellyp@theaustralian.com.au But Fairfax does not seem to follow a formula. Here is the list so far, in no particular order: Mike Carlton mhcarlton@gmail.com 
Laura Tingle ltingle@afr.com.au 
 Lenore Taylor 
 lenore.taylor@fairfaxmedia.com.au 
Phillip Coorey pcoorey@smh.com.au 
 Ross Gittins ross.gittins@fairfaxmedia.com.au Thomas Hedley
 thomash@theaustralian.com.au Patricia Karvelas karvelasp@theaustralian.com.au Imre Salusinszky 
salusinszkyi@theaustralian.com.au Paul Maley 
maleyp@theaustralian.com.au Brad Norington noringtonb@theaustralian.com.au Rowan Callick 
callickr@theaustralian.com.au Stefanie Balogh 
baloghs@theaustralian.com.au Sean Parnell
 parnells@theaustralian.com.au [b]I need your help. If you have a list, or know where I could find it, please let me know. If you have even one or more email addresses for political journalists that is not on the list, please post it/them as a comment, so I can add it/them to the list. Together we can build a comprehensive list that will enable us to email journalists from the [i]TPS Mail[/i] inbuilt database.[/b]

MWS

19/12/2012Somebody has been manipulating the polls on News Ltd. Here's how he does it: http://www.ubermotive.com/?p=68

LadyInRed

19/12/2012From twitter ...Hmmm interesting, person who rigs news polls: http://www.ubermotive.com/?p=68

LadyInRed

19/12/2012From twitter ...Hmmm interesting, person who rigs news polls: http://www.ubermotive.com/?p=68 For those who love footy: https://twitter.com/Thefinnigans/status/281261054024093696/photo/1

LadyInRed

19/12/2012snap MWS

jaycee

19/12/2012Hey!, TT...don't get 'above' yourself!...you've had too many meals of fish 'n' chips from Fookes' fish shop down below that cedar weatherboard your brother lived in at the end of our street there at Marino Rocks!....When Mrs. Fookes owned and worked that shop, they were the best fish and chips in Adelaide...by far! But back to the topic...We've all grown up with the knowledge that you never get a 'ranga' shirty...they are always one hell of a scrapper!.....Pity the Tones'....after this, he'll be lucky to fill a squirrel's scrotum let alone the 'budgie smugglers"!

TalkTurkey

19/12/2012The Media and even all the Tweeps seem perfectly content with Abbortt's "admission" that he hadn't read the Rares Judgment, and they are treating him as an ignorant mug for not having done so, and that is all. I think (along with [i]almost nobody else! )[/i] that it's a whole remove [b]worse than that[/b]. [i]It is inconceivable to me that he would not have had a very close look at the salient points at least, and that means that he has LIED about not having read it.[/i] Which in itself is an order of culpability worse than merely having been so stupid as not to have done so. [b]But it is much worse again than that[/b]. [i]It means he is in denial, he cannot face the questions on the issue, he is like a weakling little boy not being prepared to face up and fess up.[/i] [i]He is a weakling and a coward. A sneak, a liar and a sleaze.[/i] [b] And we've [u]GOT[/u] him.[/b] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What amazes me is that so many even on the 5th Estate are prepared to BELIEVE him that he hasn't read it. [i]WHY WOULD YOU? [/i]

LadyInRed

19/12/2012TT He read it alright. More weasel words so he can back out of it if need be. And he would have a good idea of what's being said, if not he needs to sack is whole media advisory dept. He's been hoping his mates in the MSM could sort his out for him. He sent Hockey out, he can't send The Poodle, or Julie Bishop. So he is hoping like hell he can hide over in the UK 'doing important work' until after Christmas. But it wont go away, we wont let it. I have to post this picky again its a delight! https://twitter.com/Thefinnigans/status/281261054024093696/photo/1

Janet (Jan @j4gypsy)

19/12/2012 Ad, Barry Tucker has been compiling something similar at his Truth in News Media site. See: http://truthinmediaresourcecentre.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/contacts-for-political-journalists/ Also, Lyn has been amassing similar lists on her Twitter account. I suspect she wouldn't mind if you emailed her about this? :-) Hope this helps.

Ken

19/12/2012to whoever made the comment at 6.09pm see my comment at 11.19am and Janet's at 12.45 p.m. Abbott may literally not have "read" the judgment but he was briefed on it by his office. That would be quite normal - same for the PM - because, otherwise, there is just too much to read. But it doesn't get him out of the fact that he was playing with words. Perhaps able to say "honestly" that he hadn't read it but not admitting he was briefed. I also noted that, if the transcript of the interview is accurate, that he was quite clever. He admitted early that he hadn't "read" it. The reporter then focused on his answer, the use of the word "read". As I suggested earlier, a better question would have been had he been briefed - but now we know the answer to that.

KHTAGH

19/12/2012Jaycee [i]Pity the Tones'....after this, he'll be lucky to fill a squirrel's scrotum let alone the 'budgie smugglers"! [/i] Mate that's the best laugh I have had for ages, first class one liner.

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19/12/2012Janet Thanks. I shall glean some email addressees from that site. I'll contact Lyn also. Folks Please sent me email addresses of political journalists. I need them for [i]TPS Mail[/i].

Pikiranku

19/12/2012Interesting gender breakdown on that Morgan poll: on 2PP 56% of women will vote Labor. That's an awful lot of stupid women! Mr. Henderson must be wishing they'd resisted the pressure and never given us the vote all those years ago.

ian

19/12/2012" Folks I'm compiling a list of journalists in Australia's MSM who comment on politics in Australia, to incorporate into the TPS Mail service that Web Monkey and I are building. " I believe the literary agency Deluded, Flimflammed and Hornswoggled may be able to help.

Michael

19/12/2012Talk Turkey, hi. RE: "The Media and even all the Tweeps seem perfectly content with Abbortt's "admission" that he hadn't read the Rares Judgment, and they are treating him as an ignorant mug for not having done so, and that is all." Treating him like an "ignorant mug" is fine by me. That's the sort of stuff that slow-seeps into the electorate's 'group mind', like 'she lied about the carbon tax'. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, it settles like mud in a fishpond. Helps in this case that it IS true, and the "ignorant mug" is revealed.

42 long

19/12/2012Deceptive manipulator might be closer. This guy couldn't lie straight in bed. The skills he has employed are not to the benefit of his character, certainly his political side. Whatever happens to him do not grieve, for he has shown no decency with his attempts to gain power by destroying the reputations of others consistently. A pretty reprehensible "modus Operandi". It would be fitting that he went as the direct consequence of people waking up to what a NASTY dealer in muck he is. With his own background so "questionable" you would have thought the glass houses syndrome would apply. The only reason it doesn't is the belief of being denied his rightfull place to rule. He has lost all objectivity. His adherants thought they would get an easy ride. They have shown by that action that THEY also are not fit to run this country. I was silly enough to think that Entsch was OK but he is in the conspiracy too. Worst bunch of right wingers yet. OOPs I forgot Campbell Newmans lot. But then THE queensland mob are right into this latest fiasco. When they try to pretend a very clear set of statements from a HIGH COURT JUDGE is of no consequence we have taken this spin thing to a new level of art form.

bob macalba

20/12/2012ie; 9.16pm last night. folks the KNOBS are starting to become unhinged, ignore..ignore..ignore, not much in their pay packet this week, their masters will not be happy, on the flip side im as happy as a pig in shit laughing at their pointless crap, 'sun is shining, weather is sweet, make you want to move your dancing feet' Bob Marley

KHTAGH

20/12/2012 Did anyone else notice the Morgan poll was not mentioned anywhere on the news last night & Thomson has been vindicated by the brothel subpenas. Also not mentioned on the news either, only on the sliding bar comments on news24.

Michael

20/12/2012Bad Abbott Following on my post yesterday that the media treating Tony Abbott as an "ignorant mug" was just fine by me, today in the Fairfax Press Lenore Taylor http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/silly-but-tony-stands-by-his-man-20121219-2bnd0.html and Michelle Grattan http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbotts-casual-approach-to-ashby-issue-indicative-20121219-2bn8r.html describe TA as, in order, "silly", and displaying "carelessness". Both women, certainly Grattan, have given Abbott a long long leash over the last two years. Not here. Not now. Abbott seems to have convinced himself that 'the rules don't apply' to him. Maybe now he's discovering the latitude the Press has given him till now has been fuelled by the scent of blood, nothing to do with "rules", just pack mentality grabbing at opportunity. Now they're smelling his blood. And his own (far from out of character but till now given a free pass) silly carelessness is too big an opportunity to miss.

KHTAGH

20/12/2012Just goes to show you even at Christmas time, you can get bad news, just found out my sister in the states has been diagnosed with a large Solitary Bone Plasmacytoma in her skull.

Pappinbarra Fox

20/12/2012KHTAGH - how do you pronounce your name?

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20/12/2012HKTAGH Sorry to read of your sister's medical problem. I hope all goes well for her as she embarks on treatment.

2353

20/12/2012Knee High - my sympathies regarding your sister. If it is any help to you, my father had a lymphoma (sp?) treated with chemo and radiation over 20 years ago. He was showing off his new Samsung Tablet last night to all that were (or were not) interested!

Truth Seeker

20/12/2012KHTAGH, sorry to hear about your bad news. Hope your sisters health problems can be resolved, and our thoughts will be with her this Christmas. Best wishes to you and your family. Cheers

bob macalba

20/12/2012KHTAGH sorry to hear about your sister, i know what its like to wear bad news during Christmas time, 7 years ago a week before xmas my mum was diagnosed with breast cancer which managed to make its way through the rest of her body, mum hung on for 2 more years but passed away 2 days before Christmas 2007, for a while i thought all my future xmas hols would be full of sadness, but its been the opposite, for when the clan gathers on xmas day we all can swap tales of a zany crazy woman who was loved by all who knew her, its a funny time of the year, yesterday i had an oscopy and was expecting bad news but it came back good, its just a lottery,

Ad astra reply

20/12/2012Folks I see that the Abbott ‘I haven’t read it’ syndrome has evoked a ‘slap over the wrist with a wet lettuce’ response from Michelle Grattan and Lenore Taylor. Why can’t these journalists say it as it is – ‘reprehensible’ – rather than ‘careless’ or ‘silly’? They must still believe Abbot will be PM next year and they want to be on his drip feed. Gutless and self-serving is my assessment. No mention of this on 7.30, but it was preoccupied with the corruption scandal in Customs. I see that the negative response from the brothels contacted over the Thomson matter has received some publicity on ABC, but has there been anything in the wider MSM? Isn’t it revealing that when the news seems to be running adverse to Thomson the papers are filled with trenchant criticism and vile cartoons; when exoneration occurs there is a muted or even silent response. It says a lot about the degenerate state of the MSM. KHTAGH It has been the custom for years to almost totally ignore Morgan polls in the MSM. I suppose that is because the media-initiated polls [i]Newspoll[/i], [i]Nielsen[/i] and [i]Galaxy[/i] take precedence. The one independent poll [i]Essential[/i], gets minimal publicity, mainly on the ABC After the rain last night the sun is shining, so I’ll be out on the property cleaning up the garden much of the day. I’ll post a new piece, the last for 2013, tomorrow.

TalkTurkey

20/12/2012Grasshopper Tell your sister that she has many good wishes coming through the ether from Swordsfolks, no pun intended on anaesthesia. Foxy-Girl KHTAGH stands for Knee High To A Grass Hopper. He is vertically challenged but he is a staunch articulate energetic Comrade of the Sword.

TalkTurkey

20/12/2012One full-on-negative poll for Abbortt and the MSM has abandoned him at last! The Media has given up on him, bagging him now, LNP has a BIG problem, ditch him now? Ditch him in February? Keep him and just hope for a miracle? They know now he ain't such a great idea after all! Slipper absolutely vindicated, and I hope VERY vindictive - in his place I sure would be! - and Craig Thomson looking good too, this is likelyto be a VERY bad year for the LNP!

2353

20/12/2012Yes, Slipper is taking legal action. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/slipper-seeks-costs-on-indemnity-basis-against-lawyers-20121219-2bnd1.html

Ken

20/12/2012Talk Turkey - my apologies for not recognising the 6.09 pm comment yesterday as yours. The line you put across threw me and I didn't connect the last sentence to the part above the line. That may put me in the Abbott category for laziness!!! I am one who is prepared to accept he may not have actually read the full judgment but that doesn't get him out of the fact that he was briefed on it. In other words, by saying he hasn't read it, he is implying that he doesn't yet understand it, and so shouldn't be questioned on it in detail, but he does - he was briefed on it. And a briefing would have given him all the main points of the judgment and some (but not all) of the relevant detail. I think it was an attempt to avoid further questioning that backfired on him. While the MSM haven't made a major issue of it, I agree with Michael that it adds to the electorate's perception of Abbott. And that perception will be increasingly negative because patterns are starting to emerge: the second time he "hasn't read" something; the unravelling of the attacks on Slipper and Thomson. He is now in a precarious position. Another one or two mistakes along the same lines and the perceptions will become entrenched.

TalkTurkey

20/12/2012Ken you said [Abbortt] is now in a precarious position. Pre means before, Caries means decay, What I allus tell yous all, He's gangrenous, OK?! I feel good now, I feel better than James Brown! :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ad I am delighted that you are compiling a list of journalists and hangers-on, it is a subject which has exercised my mind, to list and to rate them for accuracy, bigotry, perspicacity, all that sort of thing. There is no-one - Laura Tingle being a doubtful exception - who is within a bull's bellow of such as yourself, Bushfire Bill, Greg Jericho, David Donovan and several others on the 5th Estate, but we are in a position to compliment and to criticise those who are paid to tell people the truth about Australian political affairs. I haven't any names for you atm but I will think about it, I'm sure that many Swordsfolks will ensure that few journos will escape our scrutiny. Power to the Sword!

42 long

20/12/2012IF you analyse the way they wish to present things, The LieNP, it is incredibly insulting to the masses, that tony and Co. would think we would swallow this line for ever. Grattan has "moved". I didn't say "a lot" but she doesn't like being wrong, viewing herself as something of an "institution", which I guess she IS. She does have experience, unlike somee of the younger, totally lacking in any humility "smartarse" up and coming empty heads each vying for exposure in the sun. FREE press. What an abuse of that is the Murdoch media. You would think after Leveson that there would be a little more caution as to bias and direct involvement, a la Lewis. Bit of a loose canon, but they all know what they are at. Don't underestimate what is at stake here. It is about WHO australia is run for, and what rules of behaviour would apply. We know how Abbott would behave and we know who he is beholden to. If all Australians realised the threat to our future, the LieNP would be obliterated. They still MAY such is the risky nature of their operation.

Ken

20/12/201242 long Sorry but I'm a bit of a pragmatist or realist, and while we here on TPS are well aware of the "real" Mad Monk, there are many in the electorate who are not. We have to remember that the MSM has given Abbott a dream run for his sustained attacks on the PM and I have little doubt that has led to some people now having an entrenched negative view of the PM which no number of gaffes by Abbott will change. We also have to remember that both sides of politics have a "rusted on" vote of around 35% (it varies from time to time a couple of percent above or below). But to win an election, we only to need to move about 3-4% of the population. And the mistakes Abbott is making, while not causing a mass swing, will very likely, over time, cause that 3-4% to start questioning his credentials to be PM and stick to the incumbent.

BSA Bob

20/12/2012Fair go you lot! Tony's been doing good things for Australia simply by being out of the country. He couldn't do anything better than that.

Tom of Melbourne

20/12/2012Ad Astra - [i]” when exoneration occurs there is a muted or even silent response.[/i]” Exoneration!!??? The fact that a brothel didn’t keep receipts is “exoneration”? Does that explain how Thomson apparently lost his credit card, it was used in a brothel, then put back in his wallet, without his knowledge. Does it explain all the unauthorised cash advances? Does it explain who took his then wife on all the junkets? Does this explain how Thomson commenced proceedings against Fairfax over their investigation, and then withdrew unconditionally? But then described his unconditional withdrawal as an “out of court settlement”? Does it explain how Fairfax then wrote that there had been no settlement and that it stood by its report? Describing all this as “exoneration” is just wishful thinking.

LadyInRed

20/12/2012This article by Bernard Keane (the voice of reason) ABS data on employment: [i]Most interesting is the case of manufacturing, which we are repeatedly told is in terrible strife, getting pounded by the strong dollar and in desperate need of assistance. During the year, that sector added 14,000 jobs and actually very slightly increased its share of the overall workforce, after decades of decline — it’s now around 8.4% of the Australian workforce. It’s too soon to declare the long-term decline of manufacturing over, but there’s far more to the story than what unions and manufacturing companies tell us[/i] http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/12/19/stop-singing-those-blue-collar-blues-manufacturing-jobs-rise/

LadyInRed

20/12/2012Check out Anne Summers Reports - a new online magazine - first issue free - here it is: http://annesummers.com.au/pdf/ASR_issue1.pdf

LadyInRed

20/12/2012Sorry the Anne Summers magazine is totally free - just sign up and they plan to publish 10 a year.

LadyInRed

20/12/2012"I Give a Gonski" Why doesn't stuff like this get into MSM? [i]As Gonski himself said in a recent speech, “Why did a Labor government choose a resident of Point Piper, who is a dreaded merchant banker, who was educated at a private school, who chaired a private school for eight years and sat on the board of that school for 18, and who is not an educational professional, to review the funding of school education in Australia?” The answer surely is that Julia Gillard, when she was Education Minister, had the acuity to see something of her own yearnings in Gonski. Like her, he is an immigrant and like her, this defines him in ways that might surprise those who only know him through his stellar business career. And like her, Gonski understands perfectly “the importance and potency of education” that allowed his own father, the son of an unskilled poor immigrant, to become a brain surgeon.[/i]

KHTAGH

20/12/2012A new study has shown News Ltd, and especially The Australian, are overwhelming unfair and unbalanced in their reporting of climate change and climate change policy. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2012/12/13/Focus-on-political-ideology-Joseph-E-Stiglitz.aspx#comment

KHTAGH

20/12/2012oops http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/business/media-2/study-shows-newpaper-bias-about-the-carbon-change-policy/

KHTAGH

20/12/2012sorry that was posted here yesterday

Pikiranku

20/12/2012Lady in Red Thanks for the link to the Anne Summers magazine,it looks really interesting. There's an article on page 9 that you'll love, TT, about the number of Americans who used the internet and social media for civic and political purposes during the presidential election campaign. We're on a roll!

DMW

20/12/2012just thought you would like to know this Leroy ‏@Leroy_Lynch Nov 2012 the 333rd month in a row where global monthly temperature was warmer than 20th Century average http://reneweconomy.com.au/2012/333-months-in-a-row-of-above-average-global-temperatures-71182 … #climatechange

KHTAGH

20/12/2012Jaycee just tweeted your great one liner, hope you don't mind a little plagiarism. Pity the Tones'....after this, he'll be lucky to fill a squirrel's scrotum let alone the 'budgie smugglers"!

DMW

20/12/2012... and this Canberra Insider ‏@CanberraInsider Paul Keating became our 24th Prime Minister on this day in 1991, succeeding Bob Hawke who left parliament on 20 February 1992. #AusPol

LadyInRed

20/12/2012it would appear that some people did not like Leigh Sales' interview with Abbott, due to their perceived left-wing bias, regarding not reading the BHP report so much they complained to ACMA. However, ACMA finds that the ABC did break any rules. http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/main/lib410172/abs-abc_report_2872.pdf

DMW

20/12/2012[b]Twitter feed dictates court judgment to a busy Tony Abbott[/b] Patrick Williams @ The Sunshine Coast Daily [i]TONY Abbott says he's too busy to read a damning court judgement criticising Mal Brough's role in the Peter Slipper affair, but thankfully, a Twitter user with time on his side is ready to help. Twitter user @ashbyslipper is sending the Opposition leader the findings of the Federal Court's decision to throw out a sexual harassment case brought against Fisher MP and former Speaker Peter Slipper by former staffer, James Ashby.[/i] http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/twitter-feed-dictates-court-judgement-busy-tony-ab/1692718/

Casablanca

20/12/2012Keating insult app proves a hit. [quote] Published on Wednesday, the [b]Paul Keating Insult Generator[/b] has quickly become a hit online. The 99 cent app generates Keating-esque insults at the press of a button and the mischievous missives can be instantly emailed or tweeted to mates. "Let all talk of scandals, slush funds, press galleries and SMS history fade away as you embrace the heady and intoxicating brew of a real political climate," the app's blurb says. "When politicians were politicians, journalists were journalists and no one would have ever thought ABC24 sounded like 'a good idea'." The insults began flying in cyber space as more people downloaded the app. "You dimwit, pansy, intellectual rustbucket," was among them. As was "You imbecilic caucus of political harlots".[/quote] http://www.canberratimes.com.au/digital-life/smartphone-apps/keating-insult-app-proves-a-hit-20121219-2bmxa.html

KHTAGH

20/12/2012 [i] For many Australian women the decision to terminate a pregnancy will be the most difficult they’ll ever make. But it should always be one for the woman herself with the support of her family and doctor. Its not a decision that any government should make for her.[/i] http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/tanya-plibersek-on-ru486/

Ken

20/12/2012Lady in Red I note that there were two complaints about the Sales-Abbott interview. It was determined in SA, so perhaps the complaints were from SA. If so, may be Pyne was one!!!! But who was the other?

LadyInRed

20/12/2012Sorry That should have said ACMA find ABC did NOT break any rules.

KHTAGH

20/12/2012 A Matter of Context: Gillard and the press gallery. [i]Has there ever been a month when the mainstream media looked to be so out of touch with the zeitgeist? First the Alan Jones debacle and then the pundits’ response to Julia Gillard’s galvanising speech in the House of Representatives, in which she took Tony Abbott to task on the question of sexism.[/i] http://www.themonthly.com.au/gillard-and-press-gallery-matter-context-amanda-lohrey-6771#.UNJ2RZVu1n0.twitter

Casablanca

20/12/2012 Ad, Here are a couple more for your list. Maybe we should also include each journo's Twitter address. Many provide a link to Twitter but no email address on their articles. John Warhurst. John.Warhurst@anu.edu.au Emeritus professor of political science at the Australian National University. Ross Peake. ross.peake@canberratimes.com.au Political writer for the Canberra Times

KHTAGH

20/12/2012 The Year The Media Old Boys Got It Wrong [i] After a year spent largely at odds with mainstream political commentators, NM's national affairs correspondent has earned a holiday. Ben Eltham looks back on a torrid year in Australian politics[/i] http://newmatilda.com/2012/12/20/year-media-old-boys-got-it-wrong back off to the garden now.

Casablanca

20/12/2012Rattle the ghosts of polls past. John Warhurst. About 1.5 million non-voters are being chased to join the electoral roll and they may have a significant impact on the next election [quote]Australians often assume that our system of compulsory voting means that nearly everyone votes. This is actually far from the truth as the Australian National University's Professor Ian McAllister has outlined recently. Not only do more than 5 per cent of enrolled voters fail to vote, but 10 per cent of the whole electorate (about 1.5 million people) are not even enrolled to vote. Of these, 900,000 have never been on the roll and so have never voted. 600,000 have been on the roll at some stage but are not currently. Among young people under 30, the percentage is much higher than 10 per cent. But, as another political scientist and blogger (Mumble), Dr Peter Brent, points out, young people are still a minority of the ''missing'' 1.5 million.[/quote] Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/opinion/politics/rattle-the-ghosts-of-polls-past-20121219-2bnld.html#ixzz2FYcODwIU John Warhurst

Casablanca

20/12/2012Ad, Apropos my suggestion above about including Twitter accounts on your list here is one which lists a few that are useful to TPS. http://earleyedition.com/2009/07/04/501-australian-journalists-and-news-media-people-on-twitter/

Ad astra reply

20/12/2012Casablanca After a long morning cutting the lavender hedge and grubbing out a large dead shrub, I’m back reading the interesting comments that arrived this morning. Thank you for the email addresses – keep them coming folks! It was an important article that John Warhurst wrote. Regarding the Twitter addresses, the [i]TPS Mail[/i] system under development is geared to use email addresses and email technology which has no word limit. Twitter is another system but it is curtailed by the 140 character limit. Thank you for the list of Twitter handles; I’ll look to how we might be able to make them available.

Ken

20/12/2012Casablanca, Ad - re the Warhurst article Just for interest, when "compulsory voting" was introduced in 1924 it was said: "On only four occasions [in the Senate] had any individual been returned by more than 50% of the voters on the roll. In the last election, out of 2,982,424 electors, 1,254,178 did not vote. In the House of Representatives, members had on average been elected by just 48% of their electorate. Compulsory voting is seen as necessary to ensure a legitimate democracy. If the principle of democracy is to be applied then those who govern should at least represent the majority of those they govern." The fine for failing to vote was 2 pounds - which I imagine would have been at least half (or more)of the average wage at the time - or about 500 dollars now!!!

jaycee

20/12/2012Ken...About those two complaintants ;If so, may be Pyne was one!!!! But who was the other? Don't you know Chrissy talks from two places at once?!

nasking

20/12/2012 Sums it up BEAUTfully: [b]Too long didn’t read[/b] FIRST DOG ON THE MOON | DEC 20, 2012 http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/12/20/too-long-didnt-read/ N'

nasking

20/12/2012 KHTAGH, Sorry to hear about yer sister's bad news. My wife and I send you and her our best wishes. N'

nasking

20/12/2012 AHHH, here's Paul Kelly's email: Paulfatuousarse@theaustrainingtocrapanythingbutbs.com.au N'

nasking

20/12/2012 Positive and responsible decision by the government to drop the 'surplus' goal for this year. It's been a horror year for revenue...and it's so important the federal govt is able to stimulate the economy at this point so interest rates don't get too low...we've seen with other countries how too low interest rates can be problematic...particularly when austerity measures are taking place...as are unfortunately happening in some LNP/Liberal states. No point crashing the economy in order to fulfil an impractical goal. It's time this country recognised that the obsession with tax cuts and mining has created a distorted economy considering the wobbling of the global economy...and the transition to an Internet-based economy that sees volatile earnings...and inconsistent and sometimes inadequate taxation. N'

Ad astra reply

20/12/2012Ken I take your points. Perhaps if the fine were $500 everyone would vote. The Coalition seems opposed to automatic enrollment of the young when they reach voting age, presumably because it believes the young tend to vote Labor. Which raises the same issue in polling, which I understand is via landlines, which tend to be used by older folk while the young tend to use mobiles. Polls would therefore have the effect of giving the Coalition a higher vote than warranted. Nobody seems to allow for that. Nasking You are in good form. I chuckled at the First Dog on the Moon cartoon – what a marvellous picture of Abbott with a bucket on his head obscuring his vision and muting his hearing. http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/12/20/too-long-didnt-read/ Thank you for Paul Kelly’s email: Paulfatuousarse@theaustrainingtocrapanythingbutbs.com.au I’ll give it a try.

LadyInRed

20/12/2012Too long didn't read it: http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/12/20/too-long-didnt-read/

Casablanca

20/12/2012Seems as if Mr Abbott has selective hearing! He got the briefing about Mr Swan abandoning the surplus in no time at all even though he was sitting in Oxford with a bucket on his head. What's more he has indicated that this is one of those carefully selected anti-Government 'broken promise' category of facts that tends to stay lodged in his tiny brain even when it is inside a bucket. Much easier to remember broken promises than to remember seditious acts.

LadyInRed

20/12/2012Ken Cori Barnardi? He's a pompos piece of work.

Ad astra reply

20/12/2012Nasking The Government’s decision to not cut expenditure even more savagely and thereby increase unemployment and slow the economy in order to achieve a surplus next year is economically sound, as economists are in chorus acknowledging. The fall in revenue has put a hole in the income side of the budget. The only sensible response is to accept a modest deficit until revenue increases again as commodity prices rise once more, minerals and carbon tax takes increase, and business lifts as confidence returns and businesses pays more in tax. The high Australian dollar is an intractable problem that nobody has the power to change, any more than anyone here can change the economies of Europe and the US. Government does not have control of all the economic levers, and therefore has to work with what it can control. Of course Tony Abbott has been out there today with a smile on his face, along with Joe Hockey looking grim, delighted that the Government has indicated that it is unlikely to achieve a surplus, delighted that they can scoff at the economy and the Government’s economic management, but insisting that they will deliver a surplus with every budget, of course declining to answer questions about how they will do that under the existing economic circumstances. They still talk as if there had not been a GFC, (one that was brilliantly managed by the Government), that commodity prices had not come off, that the high Australian dollar had not had a severe impact on manufacturing and overseas sales and therefore business income, and that there has been no economic upheaval in Europe and in the US that has impacted our economy. They are behaving true to form – conveniently positioning their heads in the sand, or should I say in a bucket, ignoring the reality of the global economy. Disingenuousness is stock in trade for the Coalition. It will continue unabated to the election, so we had better get used to it.

Tom of Melbourne

20/12/2012[i] Disingenuousness is stock in trade for the Coalition.[/i] ...and clearly disingenuousness isn’t limited to the Coalition. That’s the FACT that is permanently ignored here. Has Swan got any of his forecasts right? Has he made politically charged and expedient predictions when politically convenient, only to walk away from them when it’s clear that he’s failed? Swan is dishonest and incompetent.

Ken

20/12/2012thanks for the suggestions about the second complainant in the ACMA investigation. I also thought Cori might be a likely second candidate. On the abandonment of the surplus, I have no doubt that it is necessary but I am not convinced that the Government has handled it well, which is a worry. Who the f**k is giving them media advice!! It has been apparent for a few months that the economy is slowing in some areas and that there would be implications for the budget. Surely, instead of maintaining that a surplus was holy writ, they could jave been preparing the way and saying something like: "our aim is still to return the Budget to surplus but if the economy and the need to support jobs becomes an issue we will delay the return to surplus by a year or two." As a "labour man", it does concern me that the Government has the capacity to shoot itself in the foot just when things are looking better. After Abbott's problem with the Rares judgment, they have handed him a "get out of gaol free card". If they had pre-prepared the electorate for this possibility, it wouldn't be so bad. It's starting to appear that the PM is much better when she follows her own political instincts and doesn't rely on the "advice" (and in the light of the current situation, I use that term very loosely) she is getting.

42 long

20/12/2012Surely you would be hard pressed to find a "fair dinkum" economist that would have recommended otherwise. Treasury make their predictions on the facts at some point of time. No One has a crystal ball or they would be multi millionaires. The right wing state governments have done enough to dampen down the economies of the states the have control of and deprive the Federal coffers of a fair bit of income. The also increase expenditure by throwing people off state support to federal. I believe this was part of the way they do things. Anyone who saves money at the expense of education is getting the equation wrong. We are dealing with people and their futures here, not just numbers. No doubt Hockey and Co will "hyperventilate" about this as being signally significant. but it is the CORRECT decision and only biased people will conclude otherwise. Labour DO try to keep people in jobs. The biggest factor affecting the country adversely is the over priced dollar, which is a product of things going well here but not in other places. Running economies where there is no interest and money being printed furiously is not proper economics. We are doing well by any standard and will probably retain the AAA rating. Whatever was achieved would not get any positive comment from the abominable NO men.

Jason

20/12/2012Ken, You forgot about the biggest Coalition whinger we have in this state! Former Howard adviser on work choices and now member for Mayo Jamie Briggs!

nasking

20/12/2012 I didn't hear about this news until today...the loss of a remarkable individual: [b]Daniel Inouye[/b] [quote]Harry Reid, the Senate Majority Leader, announced Inouye's death on the floor of the Senate, referring to Inouye as "certainly one of the giants of the Senate." Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell referred to Inouye as one of the finest senators in United States history.[37] President Barack Obama referred to him as a "true American hero." On December 18, President Obama issued a proclamation honoring the Senator's distinguished service, ordering all flags to fly at half-staff "at the White House and upon all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels of the Federal Government in the District of Columbia and throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions until sunset on the day of his interment. I further direct that the flag shall be flown at half-staff for the same period at all United States embassies, legations, consular offices, and other facilities abroad, including all military facilities and naval vessels and stations." Inouye's body will lie in state at the Capitol rotunda beginning December 20 from 10:00 EST, with visitation from 11:30 - 20:00 EST. A funeral service will be held at the National Cathedral the following day at 10:30 EST, after which Inouye will be flown to his home state of Hawaii for a final memorial service at the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific (Punchbowl) in Honolulu at 10:00 HST on December 23.[/quote] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Inouye Senator Inouye's life was one of an amazing character...his bravery, determination and ability to overcome hurdles whilst 'doing the right thing' is a glorious example to all politicians of what can be achieved if you perservere and conduct yourself with dignity, integrity...and reach out a hand often enough to your opponents to gain both respect and necessary changes. Speed well Daniel. N'

Tom of Melbourne

20/12/2012Swan’s record… • Knifed his leader in order to create a revised MRRT that raised …$ZERO • Promised a surplus 200+ times for a political advantage • Abandoned the promise • Forecast 10.5% unemployment, so plunged us into $80bn debt, but 8.5% with all the cash • Missed the forecast by about 40% • Kept his stimulus in place long after it was clear that his forecast was way out. • Kept stimulating while the Reserve Bank was raising interest rates to reduce demand • Later was cutting spending – contracting - to achieve a political surplus while the RB was reducing interest rates to stimulate Swan is simply a dumb blustering bullsh!t artist. He represents all that is incompetent and ugly about the ALP.

nasking

20/12/2012 [b]The high Australian dollar is an intractable problem that nobody has the power to change, any more than anyone here can change the economies of Europe and the US. Government does not have control of all the economic levers, and therefore has to work with what it can control.[/b] Indeed Ad, I think it's important the Australian people realise the contribution they have made to helping the world economy recover to the degree it has due to the stability of our own...becoming a safe haven in times of storms and stress. Certainly this has affected our dollar and provided other hurdles... but it must be understood that fast and brave decisions made by the Australian government throughout the GFC and onwards have ensured that many across the globe have been provided with opportunities their shrinking economies did not...enabling them to build on capital that could be invested both here and abroad...helping to pay off serious debt, prevent destructive declines in various asset prices...and in the long run building new foundations for a brighter future. This country steered by Treasurer Wayne Swan, his finance team, Treasury, the Reserve Bank...and various other socio-economics wise characters in the know...have done this world proud...and should be applauded for their foresight and courage...as should the Australian people for their sacrifices. The essential socio-energy-economic transition we see today will construct a far more solid and secure future for the coming generations...including Australians. and the political opportunists with myopic views alongside the beneficiaries of archaic & destructive industries will be shown to have missed the boat during a time that called for significant changes and visionary thinking...in tandem with buckets full of courage. The latter something Tony Abbott has never possessed. N'

TalkTurkey

21/12/2012Sorry no links to the original, I'm at dial-up speed until the 23rd :( I use it up too fast. (Any hints on what I should AVOID ? Please.) To the tune [i]Edelweiss[/i] from [i]The Sound of Music[/i]. Weasel-Words! Weasel-Words! Every morning we hear you! Spitting spite, full of shite, But the People don't fear you! Tellers of Lies may you fail and fall Fail and fall forever! Weasel-Words! Weasel-Words![u][/u] All Abborttians together! That'll get 'em. :)

2353

21/12/2012Notice the only people complaining about Swan's belated admission that the "surplus" may not happen is the LNP? It is interesting to note the media coverage is actually playing up the economists view that the "surplus" is not somethign that is worth dying in a ditch over. Also interesting to note the economist from the NAB on ABC Breakfast this morning (either just before or after Hockey) saying that Australia doesn't have a debt problem and directly contradicting Hockey. Which seuges nicely into the high Australian dollar. Apparently the IMF has made the "little Aussie battler" a reserve currency (which means that other countries can trade - and accordingly need to have supplies of - the Australian Dollar). This leads to a demand for the currency - keeping a "floor" under the price. TT - change your plan and shop around :D. http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/ And in Recaptcha bingo - Tolthena [b]santi[/b]. Clever what.

42 long

21/12/2012Blustering Hockey certainly is qualified to use the word "hyperventilating" He does it well. The Prime minister has no GUTS. The scriptwriters for the LieNP are an untalented lot. I heard Abbott avoided interview. He clearly has no guts. The way Gillard has stood up to the "muck" hurled at her she would be the LAST person you would accuse of lack of courage. You PEASANT HOCKEY. Wayne Swann shouldn't have fallen for the emphasis on a balanced budget. perhaps a feather in his cap if he achieved it but the reason is CHANGED income circumstances of some significance . The current decision is not an issue. ALL economists agree and most feel that it could have happened when the first signs appeared. Having set a target to flinch at the earliest sign of some problem would be over-reactive. You have to be sure the evidence is there and all the people have to know it too. That is the situation now. Even the BCA wouldn't want a contracting economic activity outcome if it can be avoided. This is what is happening in the LNP state gov't controlled states and there is reduced economic activity as a result of their policies. To do what the LNP would seem to want to do federally would cause a recession. Abbott has a 700,000 overdraft on his house which would be about 200% of his income, whereas the australian deficit is lower on any measure than comparable economies. No -one waits till they have accumulated the price of a house before they buy one . All businesse are geared. Why wouldn't national infrastructure be treated the same way. The LIBS will "ALWAYS handle financial matters better than Labor". Sure JOE The three people you have handling finance are so impressive, but only as jesters. You have never answered any question with fact, just sloganeering. Howard did it we can too. Howard taxed us higher than Swann is now and tried to buy the election with not needed middle class welfare. and squandered an opportunity to put the tax money to a proper use. And THAT is the TRUTH.

Michael

21/12/2012Labor unboxes the corner. Predictably, Tiny Abbott and Not Tiny Hockey have leapt on Wayne Swan's announcement that the government was "unlikely" to deliver a surplus in the next budget. Putting aside Coalition hyperventilating about 'broken promises', which suggests that governments only in fact govern during the five to six weeks of election campaigns, that the period between them is for no more than keeping 'promises' to the letter, putting aside that hyperventilation (why do I keep seeing the bellowing pink face of Christopher Pyne whenever I type that word?), putting aside Coalition hyperventilation (damn, again!), what Labor has actually done is unboxed the corner they'd painted themselves into. Now, released from a 'promise', no matter how many times (Hockey can count those figures, at least) it was made, at the next budget, no more locked in to one option, they have three economically defensible places they can be, not just one politically enforced one. Until yesterday it was a surplus, "come Hell or high water", not matter how cramping that was making governing. From today, with the Budget alone (leaving aside other reports and actions on the economy till then), the government has three possibilities in May - deficit, balanced budget, surplus. The last may be now considered "unlikely", but with economic figures domestically and internationally improving at this year's end, how much more will a government benefit from a surplus achieved economically than one demanded politically? Labor has in one press conference kicked the 'political demand' monkey off its back, the budget's interaction with the national economy will now operate without the artificial requirements of a political surplus distorting it. Which leaves 'deficit' and 'balanced budget'. Either and both are economically defensible and politically presentable as results of good government. A small government budget deficit in Australia will always be a pebble compared to the huge deficit boulders crashing through most international economies' state finances. A deficit also throws the gauntlet back to "the market", all those businesses claiming that a 'naturally moving' deficit allows them to make commercial decisions unhampered by a government determined to achieve surplus. You're free now, guys, get out there and save the day. Well, the day you always assert only the market is naturally placed to save if only government got out of the way. And a balanced budget? Stuck in the middle, everything to all men, neither too much spent nor too much borrowed. National economies are far more complicated than that, of course, but there is something reassuring about the phrase, isn't there, "balanced budget"? Hockey and Abbott hyper... (out damned Pyne, out!), fulminate, say "I told you so", blah blah, but for all they maintain they've just been given another free pass to kick Labor, the government's just shifted itself out of real kicking range. The corner is unboxed, Hockey and Abbot are too thick to notice as they leap for the familiar soapbox, and... Ashbygate festers.

bob macalba

21/12/2012heres a link from Colvinus; its not just our msm thats selectively deaf.. and the common denominator is????http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/20/bernstein-murdoch-ailes-petreaus-presidency?CMP=twt_gu

Ken

21/12/20122353 Despite my initial reaction last night to the political implications of abandoning the surplus, yes, it does appear the media is taking a more realistic line. I noted even that Hockey got a few slightly tougher questions about his approach, rather than a free run just to attack the Government. I still worry, however, that the Government did not handle this as well as they could/should have and that raises issues, as I said, about the advice they are getting. But, of course, the Government still has the Rares judgment up its sleeve. Any number of issues can come and go in the next couple of months before Pariliament resumes, and then the Government can announce an inquiry. I like the idea of some earlier posts that some form of inquiry into establishing a set of ethical standards for Parliamentarians. That would go down well in the electorate and, of course, examining what went on during the Ashby case would be just a "part" of such an inquiry. That would help the Government avoid the appearance of targetting the Ashby case but ensuring it didn't entirely disappear off the radar.

bob macalba

21/12/2012This ones for the ;PREPPERS' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzqiPvGrkTo 'and i feel fine'

Ad astra reply

21/12/2012Folks More mowing this morning. I'll be back this afternoon.

nasking

21/12/2012 John Hewson full of crap on ABC 24 this morning. He reckons the people have made up their mind and will give the election to the Coalition and to Abbott. He also farted on about ALP leadership change. Keep dreaming John. N'

nasking

21/12/2012 A visionary: "No-one can guarantee bulk billing. No-one can guarantee bulk billing without conscripting the medical profession. Medicare has never been universal bulk billing-never . . ." - Tony Abbott, Minister for Health and Ageing, Meet the Press, 23 November 2003 N'

nasking

21/12/2012 [b]John Howard: "No, there's no way that a GSTwill ever be part of our policy." Journalist: "Never ever?" John Howard: "Never ever. It's dead. It was killed by the voters in the last election". - John Howard, interview, Tweed Heads Civic Centre, 2 May 1995[/b] ----- "[b]The bills before the House will enact a broad based goods and services tax that will be levied at 10 per cent and will start in July 2000." - Peter Costello, Treasurer, A New Tax System (Goods and Services Tax Bill), Second Reading Speech, 2 December 1998[/b] -------------- [b]Joe Hockey leaves door open to higher GST BY: BEN PACKHAM From: The Australian July 20, 2012 OPPOSITION treasury spokesman Joe Hockey has left the door open to lifting the GST or broadening its base, but says the states would have to make the case for change.[/b] --------- Hmmm.... N'

pilgrim

21/12/2012Another journalist for your list AA andrew.probyn@wanews.com.au

LadyInRed

21/12/2012The problem is that the media has constantly served us the politics rather than the substance of policies, dumbing us down. And, some continue to do so. I think most people are glad that the government has dropped the surplus idea. I don't think they will get the political fall-out that the opposition expect. The good thing about dropping the surplus is that it is the right thing to do. Economists agree. The elctorate agree. And the Coalition can't say its the right thing to do because they are busy frothing at the mouth saying that Labor promised one. So which is it? Surplus at all cost, or take the flak? If TAbbott & Hockey are not careful they will start to look like (and I think it is already happening) that they think keeping a promise is more important than jobs and the economy. Do they think we should endure severe cutbacks AKA Newman. It looks like Hockey is not looking at the numbers, and he is supposed to be the oppositions numbers man. It would have been better for him to speak honestly about the numbers first and then play the political ball. But that would mean an opposition of substance and that is what they are not. There is a lesson in there for both sides. Stop treating the electorate like it is full of dumb people, its not.

nasking

21/12/2012 Joe Hockey this morning on ABC 24: "..they are treating the Australian people like mugs..." Hmmm... GST increase Joe? Or no GST increase Joe? N'

Ken

21/12/2012bob macalba liked the Guardian story about Murdoch and Petreaus. A pattern emerging. As with Abbott, people may overlook one or two gaffes/mistakes/loads of crap but are less likely to do so when they see a pattern of behaviour emerging.

LadyInRed

21/12/2012The Business Spectator [i]Abbott reignites ABC bias accusationsPublished 7:04 AM, 21 Dec 2012 Last update 7:04 AM, 21 Dec 2012 The Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) has been accused of left-wing bias by Coalition leader Tony Abbott, who also criticised the Canberra press gallery for not challenging the Labor government on the accuracy of its claims, according to The Australian Financial Review. “There is much about the ABC I like and admire,” Mr Abbott said, according to the AFR. “When the TV is turned on in the Abbott household, more often than not it is the ABC. But I do think there is the ongoing issue of bias in the ABC news and current affairs section. I have a lot of time for [Chris] Uhlmann, I have a lot of time for Mark Simkin. They are, I think, highly professional, even-handed commentators-reporters. But I think there is still this left-of-centre ethos in the ABC and I hope that Mark Scott continues to address it.” Mr Abbott's comments came ahead of a ruling on by the Australian Communications and Media Authority that found 730 host Leigh Sales had not been biased during a bruising interview with Mr Abbott discussing BHP Billiton Ltd's decision to shelve its Olympic Dam expansion last August. [/i] George Megalogenis ‏@GMegalogenis So @TonyAbbottMHR wants to be ABC program director. I suspect pollies who sook about coverage never earn media respect

LadyInRed

21/12/2012[i]Like a terminal patient, coughing and rattling, the budget surplus did not have long to live. Wayne Swan finally turned off the life support yesterday. May the surplus rest in peace. Tony Abbott was cockahoop. There he was, with Joe Hockey like Sideshow Bob, doing a political line dance, kicking up their heels. See we told you. You can’t trust Labor with the economy. Those crazy little socialist debt freaks. Never been to Oxford. Couldn’t run a chook raffle. [/i] http://thehoopla.com.au/budget-surplus-r-i-p/

Tom of Melbourne

21/12/2012It’s absolutely no use blaming the media for publicising the latest volte face from the government. Swan and Gillard specifically, deliberately and personally made their unconditional commitments about a surplus. No one made them. They did this to support their political interests, they continued to make the commitments when a range of economists were advising against pursuit of a surplus. This wasn’t the media, it was the government. They’re dishonest, opportunistic and incompetent, this is just today’s example.

42 long

21/12/2012This covert move to broadening the GST base ( but only the states can do it) Is scary. The top end of town want it because they have heaps of disposable income. Pensioners and self fundeds will spend the lot over time and pay tax on the lot. I makes superfunds look stupid particularly for the low income section who get little tax offset because of their marginal tax rate when paying in. When it comes out they will pay an additional tax on it as they spend it all It's also a pain to collect and imposes a lot of work on businesses. It takes no account of the person's ability to pay the tax either. Funny how people who go ballistic about a carbon price are happy to put a far more expensive tax on "everything" whereas the carbon price only affects things that use carbon in their production, hopefully reducing the use of carbon eventually to go to something less damaging and more sustainable

Casablanca

21/12/2012Oh look! Tom of Melbourne has tricked the scrollers again by swapping back to his pink gravatar. He is such a clever trickster the way he constantly swaps between his green and his pink gravatars. Give it away Tom. We'll still scroll past you no matter which gravatar you use.

LadyInRed

21/12/2012No one is blaming the media. The point I think everyone is making is the one so aptly made by Swan might I add 'The Worlds Best Treasurer': [i]“If the worst thing that people can say is that we got the economics right again but fell short on the politics, then I would say so be it,” Swan said. “At the end of the day, I don’t care about the political outcomes; I care about the economic outcomes.”[/i] I concur. Keep flinging the mud, this particular variety wont stick. It was the right thing to do. So was the carbon price. I think every Labor supporter knows and expects the majority of the MSM to play the politics. But when every economist says phew glad that surplus promise has gone now lets get back to business - I don't think Swan has all that much to worry about.

nasking

21/12/2012 Bob, thnx for The Guardian link: [b]Why the US media ignored Murdoch's brazen bid to hijack the presidency Did the Washington Post and others underplay the story through fear of the News Corp chairman, or simply tin-eared judgment? Carl Bernstein[/b] [quote]The tape of Petraeus and McFarland's conversation is an amazing document, a testament to the willingness of Murdoch and the wily genius he hired to create Fox News to run roughshod over the American civic and political landscape without regard to even the traditional niceties or pretenses of journalistic independence and honesty. Like the revelations of the hacking scandal, which established beyond any doubt Murdoch's ability to capture and corrupt the three essential elements of the British civic compact – the press, politicians and police – the Ailes/Petraeus tape makes clear that Murdoch's goals in America have always been just as ambitious, insidious and nefarious. The digital recording, and the dead-serious conspiratorial conversation it captures so chillingly in tone and substance ("I'm only reporting this back to Roger. And that's our deal," McFarland assured Petraeus as she unfolded the offer) utterly refutes Ailes' disingenuous dismissal of what he and Murdoch were actually attempting: the buying of the presidency. "It was more of a joke, a wiseass way I have," Ailes would later claim while nonetheless confirming its meaning. "I thought the Republican field [in the primaries] needed to be shaken up and Petraeus might be a good candidate." The recording deserves to be heard by any open-minded person trying to fathom its meaning to the fullest. Murdoch and Ailes have erected an incredibly influential media empire that has unrivaled power in British and American culture: rather than judiciously exercising that power or improving reportorial and journalistic standards with their huge resources, they have, more often than not, recklessly pursued an agenda of sensationalism, manufactured controversy, ideological messianism, and political influence-buying while masquerading as exemplars of a free and responsible press. The tape is powerful evidence of their methodology and reach. The Murdoch story – his corruption of essential democratic institutions on both sides of the Atlantic – is one of the most important and far-reaching political/cultural stories of the past 30 years, an ongoing tale without equal. Like Richard Nixon and his tapes, much attention has been focused on the necessity of finding the smoking gun to confirm what other evidence had already established beyond a doubt: that the elemental instruments of democracy, ie the presidency in Nixon's case, and the privileges of free press in Murdoch's, were grievously misused and abused for their own ends by those entrusted to use great power for the common good.[/quote] [quote]In Nixon's case, the system worked. His actions were investigated by Congress, the judicial system held that even the president of the United States was not above the law, and he was forced to resign or face certain impeachment and conviction. American and British democracy has not been so fortunate with Murdoch, whose power and corruption went unchecked for a third of a century. The most important thing we journalists do is make judgments about what is news. Perhaps no story has eluded us on a daily basis (for lack of trying) for so many years as the story of Murdoch's destructive march across our democratic landscape. Only the Guardian vigorously pursued the leads of the hacking story and methodically stuck with it for months and years, never ignoring the underlying context of how Rupert Murdoch conducted his take-no-prisoners business and journalism without regard for the most elemental standards of fairness, accuracy or balance, or even lawful conduct. When the Guardian's hacking coverage reached critical mass last year, I quoted a former top Murdoch deputy as follows: "This scandal and all its implications could not have happened anywhere else. Only in Murdoch's orbit. The hacking at News of the World was done on an industrial scale. More than anyone, Murdoch invented and established this culture in the newsroom, where you do whatever it takes to get the story, take no prisoners, destroy the competition, and the end will justify the means." The tape that Bob Woodward obtained, and which the Washington Post ran in the style section, should be the denouement of the Murdoch story on both sides of the Atlantic, making clear that no institution, not even the presidency of the United States, was beyond the object of his subversion. If Murdoch had bankrolled a successful Petraeus presidential campaign and – as his emissary McFarland promised – "the rest of us [at Fox] are going to be your in-house" – Murdoch arguably might have sewn up the institutions of American democracy even more securely than his British tailoring.[/quote] http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/20/bernstein-murdoch-ailes-petreaus-presidency Tony Abbott is in Rupert Murdoch's pocket... and I'm sure he'd like the entire ABC to act like Murdoch clones. N'

nasking

21/12/2012 Rupert has a history of hating unions and creating conflict: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wapping_dispute Imagine Rupert Murdoch's media outlets lined up with a Coalition led by union-hating culture warrior Tony Abbott...and those union-hating shock jocks... and all those LNP/Liberal states...who are already attacking workers' rights and conditions? What a future eh? WORKING 24-7 For peanuts. N'

Pikiranku

21/12/2012Bob, just read your Guardian link. I suppose it shouldn't come as any surprise, but it's a chilling story nevertheless and one that everyone should read. Shows how far Murdoch is prepared to go to achieve whatever it is he wants to achieve (greater power? greater wealth?) and how naive we'd be to imagine that the same thing isn't happening here. What a shame we don't have a newspaper like the Guardian. And Thank Dog we have the Fifth Estate!

LadyInRed

21/12/2012Thanks for the Guardian link Bob. Just tweeted it so more people can choose to read it.

nasking

21/12/2012 The golden years: [b]Aged Care and the Pension Clawback[/b] John Howard Lie #13 Interviewer: "Well, if the Budget's in such good shape why persist with things like the pension claw back . . ." John Howard: "No, no . . . because Glenn there is no clawback. And what happened with those things is that they were paid in advance and we're not taking them back, we're just avoiding paying them twice . . ." - John Howard, interview with Glenn Milne, Sunday Sunrise, 4 March 2001 John Howard Lie #14 "There has been no clawback, there has been no deduction and there has been no deceit". - John Howard, Parliament, 5 March 2001 The Truth: "[b]The indexation adjustments to pensions and adult allowance rates for 20 March 2001 will have the additional issue of clawback . . . Two per cent of the existing rate will be deducted from the normal CPI adjustment . . ." - Department of Family and Community Services, internal briefing paper, quoted in Parliament, 5 March 2001[/b] http://www.awu.net.au/109589607626152_5.html AND SO IT WAS AND SO IT SHALL BE ONE NATION UNDER TONY N'

42 long

21/12/2012Abbott will privatise the ABC. He gives the kiss of death to the people he declares are worthy of honourable mention. ie Kathy Jackson ( Joan of Arc )Uhlman etc. Do Tony and Uhlman have something? Anyhow, everyone he says is flawed has been set up and is actually OK. The ones he promotes have feet of Clay. He doesn't seem to have a clue that HE is the inconsistent one with more flaws than anybody in his own character. His method is the most deplorable and will eventually make him an object of derision, (cause it's nasty) by thinking people that are not glued to his "win power by any means" programme. Gengis Khan would be too right wing for Abbott. He is looking more like Robert Mugabe in only wanting to deal with people who agree with him and control criticism of him. The ABC has already lost it's soul. Let's all worship the God-King, ( self appointed) Abbott. Is this guy for real?

nasking

21/12/2012 [b]After shaky start, 2012 a triumph for feminism[/b] [b]JANE CARO[/b] | DEC 20, 2012 CRIKEY [quote][b]Then Anne Summers delivered her brilliant and forensic analysis of the gendered abuse being thrown at Gillard in a speech called Her Rights at Work. It hit a nerve and gave women the ammunition they needed. Then the carbon tax became a reality and when the sky didn’t fall, Gillard’s approval ratings began to rise.[/b] “Far from feminism being dead, as was so confidently stated by so many until very recently, social media and the power it gives women to voice their opinions and band together …” In September, Sydney radio broadcaster Alan Jones let rip at Gillard again. In reaction to Gillard promising some aid to help more women in the Pacific, Jones suggested women like Sydney Lord Mayor Clover Moore and ex-Victorian police commissioner Christine Nixon were “destroying the joint” and that there wasn’t a chaff bag big enough for them — a reference to a previous suggestion that Gillard be sewn into a chaff bag and thrown out to sea. [b]That night, women hit Twitter in droves at #destroyingthejoint. The hashtag trended worldwide and a Facebook page sprang up. Women didn’t have to cop insults about their gender in impotent silence. Thanks to social media and the unmediated access it gave them to the public conversation they could — and did — make their point of view heard loudly.[/b] Only a few weeks later, soon after the death of Gillard’s much-loved father, Jones told a function that John Gillard had “died of shame” because his daughter had told so many lies. An attendee wore a suit made from chaff bags. Businesses discovered there was a high price to pay for advertising with Jones. The chaff bag wearer lost his job. Major sponsors left 2GB promising never to return, costing the station more than $1 million. And polls revealed Abbott, never popular with women, was sinking further. He turned to his wife Margie who confidently outed her husband as having been a closet feminist all along. The significance of the most socially conservative candidate for PM for decades calling himself a feminist to have a chance at re-election was not lost on many who really were — feminists, that is. [b]Only a few days later, Abbott used the same phrase about dying of shame in a debate over former parliamentary speaker Peter Slipper’s sleazy texts about female genitalia. Gillard, shaking with what appeared to be genuine fury, rose and delivered the speech of her life. The “misogyny speech”, as it has come to be known, resonated around the world with more than two million YouTube hits. Women who watched it alternatively wept and punched the air as Australia’s first female prime minister put into words what many of them had struggled against all their working lives.[/b] Next morning, what is becoming rather disparagingly referred to as the “mainstream media” reported the speech as cynical, a distraction and a failed ploy. But as they found out immediately, the days of the media being able to set the parameters of debate are over. Women were not having a bar of it. The reporting of the speech by the gallery was pilloried. Journos belatedly changed their tune. The disconnect between how women heard the speech and how political journalists reported it became as much the story as the speech itself. The year drew to a close with President Barack Obama winning a second term; and women got him across the line. Obama won 55% of the female vote; women are 53% of the US population and are more likely to vote than men. [b]Right-wing Republicans now face a dilemma. The religious values they see as central to their platform are the same ones that stop women, particularly single women, from voting for them.[/b][/quote] More here: http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/12/20/caro-after-shaky-start-2012-a-triumph-for-feminism/ I think unions get a raw deal too. Some influential and privileged and profiteering types luv to kick them around...demean them. There is a history there...just like feminism...forgotten by too many. And feminism and unionism have a history TOGETHER too. N'

bob macalba

21/12/2012LadyInRed thanks, the more people who choose to read it , the better, nasking he really is an evil man, his tentacles reach far and wide, i imagine sometime in the future a 'POPE MURDOCH', preaching sermons through FOX WORLDWIDE, imagine the power then. Fantasy you say.......Perhaps

nasking

21/12/2012 Indeed: [b]2012 Crikeys: the best and worst journalism this year[/b] [b]ANDREW DODD[/b] | DEC 20, 2012 [b]Puff piece of the year: The Oz on Noel Pearson[/b] [quote]Caroline Overington’s profile of Noel Pearson landed in The Australian in August — the same day as Jane Cadzow’s piece about Noel Pearson was published in Fairfax’s Good Weekend magazine. Was The Oz piece a spoiler, designed to undermine the Fairfax profile? It certainly seemed that way. Was The Australian’s profile soft and gentle? It certainly seemed that way. Next year we intend to create a new category: best puffy spoiler.[/quote] [b]Best apology: The Oz on the fund[/b] [quote]Oh so many to chose from. Even Media Watch’s Jonathan Holmes was in contention this year. There was Mark Day’s piece in The Australian that got several things wrong about the Convergence Review before it was released. There was the story by Janet Albrechtsen that wrongfully contended the Finkelstein inquiry would propose licensing of the press. But that little story in The Oz in August, during the battle over the AWU affair, was probably the most damaging as the paper had to admit it had got the terms “slush fund” and “trust fund” confused. That tiny error shifted the momentum, allowing the Prime Minister to begin fighting back.[/quote] [b]Weirdest media campaign of the year: anti-media regulation[/b] [quote]Again, hard to pick. There was that strange anti-trolls campaign in The Daily Telegraph and that odd one on power prices, in which the financial motives of the sponsors were obscured in all the hype about saving money on energy bills. It started to look like a recruitment campaign for a cult. [b]Then there were those forget-about-the-nuance campaigns by The Australian. And we’re not just talking about the rabid attacks on Julia Gillard over the AWU slush fund. [/b] There was the one aimed at journalism educators, which seemed to have the hand of editor-in-chief Chris Mitchell on it. [b]But the winner has to be News Limited’s campaign against anything that looked like regulation of the press. It was led by News Limited CEO Kim Williams, who routinely warned of the impending mass-imprisonment awaiting the nation’s reporters and of the inevitable slide towards Stalinism because of whatever media inquiry was handing down its findings that week[/b].[/quote] [b]The best story you never read: RBA Securency stories[/b] [b]I don’t mean to be rude, but aren’t newspapers meant to be written for intelligent 12-year-olds? My hunch is Neil Chenoweth’s series (and book) on pay TV piracy was written primarily for pay TV technicians. It was a great yarn though.[/b] [quote]I think. Likewise, Nick McKenzie and Richard Baker’s Securency stories in The Age  — they had real significance and were rightfully regarded as important. Don’t test me on the detail but I do know that knowing when the RBA governor Glenn Stevens knew something was really worth knowing.[/quote] Much more here: http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/12/20/2012-crikeys-the-best-and-worst-journalism-this-year/ BTW, a month ago I renewed my annual subscription with Crikey. Can't wait for my gift package to arrive. :) I think it has a Parks and Recreation season 1 cd in it. N'

nasking

21/12/2012 [b]i imagine sometime in the future a 'POPE MURDOCH', preaching sermons through FOX WORLDWIDE, imagine the power then.[/b] Bob, and he already has his favourite Abbott. :) [i]Kneel son and bless your Pope.[/i] N'

LadyInRed

21/12/2012Ashby's lawyers are taking AshbyGate to the FWA. So an abuse of process in the federal court is what in a tribunal? You don't win in a high court so you take it to a ......dah lower one? Am I missing something here? Or is this so they can do what they accused the gonverment of.....keeping it going so Tones doesn't have to answer questions? Can anyone explain the resoning behind this to me?

LadyInRed

21/12/2012Tim Dunlop 2012 in Review: Public Life [i]In the next of our week-long series looking back at 2012, Tim Dunlop says "sexist" only partly describes the behaviour of some of the men who ruled our newspapers and airwaves this year. The other word is "childish". [/i] http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4436552.html

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21/12/2012pilgrim Thanks for the Andrew Probyn email address - I've added him in. Folks Keep the email addresses coming.

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21/12/2012Folks There are 442 comments to date, so as this thread is getting long, I'll soon post the final piece for 2012 - [i]Focus on crap detecting: Postman and Weingartner[/i]

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21/12/2012 Folks I’ve just posted the last piece for 2012: [i]Focus on crap detecting: Postman and Weingartner[/i]. It is the third in the series where we have focussed on political ideology, using well-regarded writings as the framework for discussion. I trust you will enjoy this [i]finale[/i] for the year. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2012/12/21/Focus-on-crap-detecting-Postman-and-Weingartner.aspx

TalkTurkey

21/12/2012A Very Serious Tone prevails on TPS today! No pun intended on Tone. Let's just imagine for a moment that Labor strategists are well ahead of the game - not bumbling wastrels of political capital, but very shrewd operators with the ability to feint and dodge and tempt and bait an opponent whose instinct to attack is as close to the surface, as predictable, as a Labrador's insatiable preoccupation with food. (which btw is why Labs are so trainable, unlike less greedy breeds). OK here's Labor months ago, surely knowing they were on a promise they were unlikely to be able to keep. When to back off? No really good time, but when the last figures came out showing huge revenue desiccation, and there really wasn't any choice, Swan did it - (in the end) - immediately. Right when Abbortt might have been the story otherwise. It's very interesting. This is Big Chess. The moves are critical. Was Swan's timing deplorable, brilliant, or ordinary? [i]Deplorable?[/i] He really took the attention away from Abbortt. That in itself has positive and negative aspects - he deflected the Ashbygate heat off Abbortt, but also undercut his glorious return. So maybe not too bad, when it couldn't be good. (When Abbortt did front the cameras, it was with Snotty Joe in support, and Abbortt apparently fled at the first Ashbygate question - But I haven't seen the footage, bloody Dialup won't get me there. I saw some of their rants, but not the flees.) [i]Ordinary?[/i] Well not really possible, the times almost preclude ordinariness. Swan must have thought very carefully as to whether to drop the Surplus before Crispmess, between Crispmesss and New Year, or into 2013 itself. He chose to do it immediately the figures clarified the situation. Now let's suppose it was deliberate and brilliant timing - even turning what could have been a media disaster to Government's advantage. (As I write Alan Kohler is saying he thinks Swan's done the Right Thing - and that says a lot, to a lot of people. To me it says that there are important elements in the MSM who are starting to break with the Groupthink - or maybe, that the Groupthink itself has turned, as I "announced" yesterday. ... And Kohler was followed by an announceress who said, [i]apparently gratuitously[/i], that [i]a leg of lamb is cheaper this Crispmess than last![/i]- Which of course is exactly in the face of Abborttian predictions about how legalamb was going to cost $100.) (It seemed an accidental-on-purpose jibe at Abborttian predictions, did anyone else notice?) The thing had to be done, so if t'were done, it were best it were done quickly. Crispmess has already eaten a lot of the damage, as have the Economists. The Media seem less interested in the Broken Promise aspect than I thought they would be, and rather more interested than I would have dared hope in the economics. And Labor is getting as much support from the MSM as it is getting kicks, which is better than it might have been. Joe and Josie Lunchbox seem either not to care, or to think the Government is being sensible. Whyalla's still there, legalamb is affordable, and anyway it's Crispmess . . . [i]But the subplot, the big story, is Ashbygate[/i]. Getting over the Surplus problem now has cleared the decks for an investigation into the parts played by Brough and many others, and most particularly, er, Abborrt! So it may not have been a [i]brilliant[/i] move to announce the desurplusisation on the same day as Abbortt got back, but I think it was the best option. It gets it over with. It will be a tiny concern by New Year, with most experts and even some choosing to downplay its importance, and thus defusing it as an issue for Them. On Twitter Peter van Onselen opined it was terrible because they were breaking a promise they should never have made, I challenged him, wtte [i]OK so why aren't you praising Swan for doing the right thing now? Oh that's right you have to find a negative angle eh![/i] and several people retweeted me on that, ha ha PvO. At this time of year I think few people are very interested. That's good, because in the whole scheme of macroeconomics it's a miniscule matter, minor surplus or minor deficit, so that's about right iyswim. You can see ABBORTT would have almost always been the first in any alphabetical list, you can almost see him in his own mind, white uniform, gold braid, crimson Cross of Jeezuz emblazoned on his personal escutcheon . . . Naturally at the head of every honourable queue, Born to Command, able to despatch with manifest ease a whole gang of ruffians without so much as rumpling the snowy lace at his throat . . . Defender of Ladies . . . Beloved of all the Saints... Well Tony I have to tell you that [i]the world of your fantasies is forever beyond your grasp[/i]. By the beginning of the new political year, the smoking cauldron of your lies and plots and excesses will have come to the boil, bubbling with doubly-doubled trouble for you, and [i]with the bad news for Labor in the past [/i]- and, most dreadfully for you, with your acolytes in your rabble of a Party, and your sycophants in the Media, progressively losing faith in you and deserting you. That is your future Tony Abbortt. My Eye of Time sees you clear. You might just as well hope to grow your hair back (as Leaky Burk suggests) as hope to lead to victory that mob of no-hopers of yours - who btw let me remind you, are nowhere near as unpopular as you are! Swordsfolks the time is come to mess with the Abborttians' minds. We have earnt this delish schadenfreudische by dint of long angst, and now with our electoral popularity at parity - at worst - we can have fun by teasing the Abborttians into making telling mistake after mistake. Ridicule is the best thrust of all, and Labor is 'way better at it than the others. The Political New Year will start with the ball in Labor's court, and *J*U*L*I*A* to serve. Then, Game On indeed! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Some of this post seems a bit disjointed. To coin a phrase. :) The whole point I haven't made, but what I meant to, is that the Government is letting the Abbortt gangrene fester, he will be putrid by early New Year with bit of flesh falling off. ...Falling into Labor's Witches' Cauldron, which is just starting to smoke, putrid bits of Abbortt, the final ingredient in the brew of horrid stuff they have hurled at the Government. A brew so potent that when we spit it back at them, as they deserve, (and as we shall), after holding back for so long, it will confound and demolish the Abborttians with their own venom. I think the Government[i] must [/i]hold some sort of enquiry, a quick one focused tightly on media records and testimony of the main players Brough Ashby Abbortt et al. I think the People have a right to know, since the conspirators' efforts have had significant effect on Australian politics - and to know well before the next election. We will not let the matter rest. It was [b]TREASON![/b] Concise Oxford: Attempt to depose sovereign or levy war in order to compel changes of measures, intimidate Parliament, or stir up foreign invasion.

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21/12/2012TT [b]What a great read! You give us important insights to contemplate. Please post it also on the next piece: [i]Focus on crap detecting: Postman and Weingartner[/i][/b]

Tom of Melbourne

21/12/2012[i]” why aren't you praising Swan for doing the right thing now?[/i]” What an odd notion. A politician makes a specific and unequivocal promise several years ago, and continues to repeat it on hundreds of occasions, despite warnings from economists that he should stop it… and political reporters are supposed to congratulate him!!??? Swan made a stupid commitment, one that he should not have made, he (and Gillard) repeated it. Most knew months ago that there would be no surplus, but Swan and Gillard continued with their deceptive commitment, right up until the slow season. This is a dishonest, incompetent government that is hooked on spin.
How many umbrellas are there if I have two in my hand but the wind then blows them away?