An open letter to the Leader of the Opposition

Mr Abbott, we expect that you have mixed feelings about the outcome of the election. To get as close as you did to winning is cause for elation and congratulation, emotions echoed in the media, where many considered you unelectable six months ago. Yet the countervailing emotion must be intense frustration at getting so close then losing in the post-election period. You are credited with winning the campaign, but losing the post-election negotiations.

No doubt you are angry that two of the conservative-leaning Country Independents decided to support Labor instead of the Coalition. Among the several reasons for this was the NBN, which you vowed to scrap, and you have since assigned Malcolm Turnbull the task of ‘demolishing’ it. The Independents saw this as essential for regional development. You did not, instead coming up with a cheaper, slower and less technologically advanced plan that experts consider inferior and far less capable of meeting the nation’s present and future needs. So one cause of your not gaining power was your intransigence about the NBN, insisting it was a ‘white elephant’ and a gross waste of public funds. Another reason seemed to be your attitude to climate change and your resistance to a tax on carbon. Your attitude to both these issues was born of an obsessive desire to ‘pay back debt’ ‘and ‘end the waste’, two of your most potent slogans. In pursuing these aims you overlooked what was best for the nation in telecommunications and combating global warming.

You wanted the electorate to believe that under the Coalition debt, deficits and interest rates always would be lower, the cost of living more reasonable, that waste and mismanagement would evaporate and we would all be better off than under an incompetent Labor administration that could never manage money or implement any program without it becoming a disaster. These were the raison d'être for your fixation on austerity in budgeting, and no doubt the reason you attempted to make your budget look better than it really was by using specious assumptions. You were caught out with a black hole variously estimated to be from $4 billion to over $10 billion. The way you tried to avoid scrutiny by claiming there had been a ‘criminal leak’ from Treasury, now proved by the AFP to be not so, made the electorate and the Independents suspect you had something to hide, which turned out to be the case as revealed by Treasury once it finally got its hands on your figures. The media should have exposed the deceit but chose to downplay the black hole; indeed Michael Stutchbury categorized it as just a few ruts in the road. It would have been described as a massive chasm of earthquake proportions that would swallow the party completely if Labor had such a hole.

Although you know perfectly well that the only criterion of legitimacy of a government is the capacity to command a majority of seats in the House, which Labor clearly could after the Independents supported it, you still insisted it was illegitimate, and that since the Coalition had a better TTP it should be governing. As the AEC has now given its final TPP: 50.12% to Labor and 49.88% to the Coalition, Labor being over thirty thousand votes ahead, that argument is defunct. Even your claim of a higher primary vote is questionable as the Election Analyser in The Australian shows that with 93% of the votes counted Labor scored 37.99%, Liberal 30.46%, Greens 11.76%, LNP Queensland 9.12%, Other 4.42%, Nationals 3.73% and Independents 2.52%, with the rest bring up the rear.  Only by combining the conservative vote could you claim a higher primary vote. As you insist Labor and the Greens are ‘in coalition’ their votes combined would give a primary vote well ahead of the Coalition. So even that spurious criterion doesn’t work for you.

So we hope you will now drop the ‘illegitimacy’ charge and accept that Labor is in power, and desist from attempts to dislodge it in favour of the Coalition, which you continue to hint you will do given any chance. The people have decided, close though it was, that Labor is the government. Accept it, even if it does stick in your craw, just as did your loss in 2007.

You have signaled your intention to ‘ferociously’ hold the Government to account; you use words like ‘demolish’ when instructing Malcolm Turnbull about the NBN; and your attitude since the election was decided remains as it was before, to attack relentlessly, to destroy Government policies, to disrupt, and do as your mentor Randolph Churchill advised: ‘oppose everything, suggest nothing, and turf the government out’. We would prefer you reflect on the fact that you have 74 members if you count Tony Crook, almost half the House, all elected by the people of Australia to serve their country. How can they do that if all you do is oppose everything and set out to destroy the Government’s legislation and indeed the Government itself? You talked of a ‘kinder and gentler ‘ polity and parliament, but everything you have done since uttering those words have suggested the opposite – that you will make it a harsher place with more aggression and belligerence. Attack seems all you understand, and since you probably feel it has got you to where you are, you likely see value in continuing it, notwithstanding the fact that it let you down in the post-election negotiations. Many feel affronted that so many elected Coalition members, all paid from the public purse, under your direction will engage in destructive behaviour attempting to tear down the Government and its legislative program, rather than contributing positively and helpfully to the good governance of the nation. What a waste! A kinder and gentler approach would win you and your members so much more kudos and admiration.

Frankly we are sick and tired of aggression and destructive behaviour and want to see some collaboration from you for the good of the nation.

You have got to where you are by a series of derogatory slogans repeated endlessly and echoed faithfully by a largely complaint and supportive media, particularly News Limited and The Australian, that seems intent on promoting your cause, highlighting the problems in Government programs, never willing to concede the positive, the successful aspects. It reminds us of what happened under Josef Goebbels in Nazi Germany where he worked on the premise that if you tell a lie often enough eventually the people will believe it. You have told lies about Labor for years. How often have we heard: ‘waste and mismanagement’, ‘Labor cannot mange money’, ‘Labor is addicted to spending’, ‘Labor will always run the country into debt that the Coalition will have to pay off’, ‘Labor will never have a surplus budget’, ‘Labor will never stop the boats’, ‘Labor will never build a regional processing centre’, and so on it boringly goes. Whether you actually believe these slogans to be true or whether you use them because they work, we shall never know. And work they do: even Labor supporters when asked about the BER reflexly utter your slogans: ‘waste’, ‘rorts, ‘mismanagement’, ‘debt’, with no mention of the BER’s splendid addition to school infrastructure and the jobs it created. You have been brilliantly successful, with the aid of the media, in brainwashing a large part of the population.

Another highly successful slogan had been ‘A Great Big New Tax’, which you applied to emissions trading schemes, the most recent of which had the Coalition’s support until your party assassinated its leader Malcolm Turnbull, who negotiated the scheme with Labor. Of course you insist that because you are in Opposition, his assassination was not comparable with Labor’s assassination of Kevin Rudd. I wonder does Malcolm share that view?

You applied the GBNT mantra although you knew it was the polluters that would pay for polluting, and that any resultant increase in cost to consumers would be heavily compensated for by Government subsidies. You ran the line that every time the fridge was opened or the ironing was done the consumer would pay. Barnaby Joyce made an art form of that recital, adding his own idiosyncratic humor for good measure. You must have known that you were distorting the truth, the reality of the scheme, but what did that matter to you, so long as it worked? And it did. You managed to kill much of the public support for climate change action. Nice work!

GNBT worked so well that you applied it to the minerals tax schemes. You insisted that the miners paying their fair share of tax for mining our minerals would result in massive job losses, ruin the industry, kill the goose that was laying multiple golden eggs, and thereby deprive this nation of what you described as ‘the very industry that saved us from the GFC’, notwithstanding the fact that during the GFC the miners sacked a higher proportion of their workforce than did other industries and businesses. You scared workers in the mining industries witless with threats of unemployment on a grand scale, so much so that electors in the mining states, particularly in Queensland, turned savagely against the Government and brought it to close to defeat. Again your slogans worked; whether they represented the reality that would flow from a minerals tax was of no concern to you.

Your capacity for misrepresentation seems to have no bounds. We expect more grotesque slogans to fall from your mouth in the days ahead. But we are so weary of them.

You have chosen to keep many of your shadow ministries in their same positions. Have you no one better than Joe Hockey to be Shadow Treasurer? ‘Hockeynomics’ has entered our lexicon courtesy of Peter Martin to describe Joe’s bizarre thinking about economics, perhaps most flagrantly illustrated by his repeated attempts to convince us that the Government’s borrowings to service debt were pushing up interest rates. A Treasury paper: Reconsidering the link between fiscal policy and interest rates in Australia featured in Peter Martin’s One in the eye for Hockeynomics refutes Joe’s contention with: “Australian general government net debt has no impact on the short run real interest margin, and has only a small effect in the long run.” But that did not stop Joe mouthing his mantra again and again, and of course you did nothing to control him. Why would you?

You chose also to leave Andrew Robb as Shadow Finance, the man who tried so lamentably to defend the indefensible black hole in the Coalition costings, and justify the Coalition’s reluctance to expose its costings to Treasury scrutiny with the ‘criminal leak’ accusation, now disproven. His incapacity for explaining economic data, particularly if it’s shonky, was shown up time and again as he muddled and stumbled his way through it, using language and reasoning that would confuse even an expert. Have you no one better? Is this the team, Hockey and Robb, which you would inflict on this nation if you were in power? We know you are disinterested and economically illiterate, so I suppose it would be over to them as it was after your budget reply speech and throughout the election campaign. Heaven help us.

We see you have retained Julie Bishop as Foreign Affairs spokesperson despite her ineptitude in that post. Remember her imprudent premature utterances about Stern Hu, and her flaunting of the convention of not talking about AFP matters when she went on national TV over the Israeli passports affair? Yet she stays in one of the most senior positions in the Opposition. What a prospect should you ever form government.

No doubt you consider your appointment of Malcolm Turnbull as Shadow for Communications and Broadband a stroke of brilliance. Have you checked if he has his heart in demolishing the NBN? We suspect he has not, and if that is so, he will make a very poor fist of it. Perhaps you have set him up for failure, for obvious reasons. At least the man has talent, which is more than one can say for much of your frontbench.

We can see why you have retained Christopher Pyne in his positions, especially Manager of Opposition Business, where his irritating persistence, snapping at the heels of the Government, raising interminable spurious points of order, and generally disrupting parliamentary business suits your purpose well. It seems that disruption is to be the order of the day, and we imagine that repeated points of order and dissent from the Speakers’ rulings will become the norm.

You can see that we are disturbed not just by your modus operandi, but distressed that you seem intent on disruption, demolition, destruction, demeaning and damaging the Government at every opportunity, and determined to replace it with a Coalition Government – the party that really understands money and management and economics and governance, the party that can end the waste, pay back debt, stop new taxes and stop the boats, clearly the natural party to rule.

You are now regarded by your party room as a great leader who has rescued the Coalition from potentially long years in opposition and brought it close to government. Your aggressive, combative approach is seen as a major reason for this. Your inclination to continue in this vein will be strong and from all accounts this is the track on which you seem to have chosen to travel. Whether you have the insight to recognize that this approach is no longer appropriate, especially now that many see a ‘new paradigm’ of government emerging, or whether you have the capacity for any other approach even if you did, only time will tell. There are many, perhaps within your party, who would have doubts on both counts.

Andrew Elder summed up the situation well on Politically Homeless in a piece: Timid and inept opposition when he concluded: “Abbott has slipped back into attack-dog mode at the very time when people are starting to appreciate broader and more subtle ways of working in politics. He will probably succeed in fooling the similarly calibrated journosphere that he's a real threat, but he still hasn't addressed his economic and communications policy deficiencies, nor has he given serious thought to his party's future…. Timid and inept: Tony Abbott confirms his credentials for Opposition. The question is open on whether the Liberals want to stay there, and if not how committed they really are to Abbott as leader. “

That just about says it all.

What do you think?

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Michael

18/09/2010I think your well-phrased and incisive open letter will fall on numb wingnuts... sorry, deaf ears. But surely, sadly, you and we can expect nothing else. Attack dogs are, by their actively perverted nature (thank you, John Howard), unreachable by reason or through unviolent persuasion. Abbott will self-immolate. Whether he will do that as Opposition Leader or as Prime Minister, only time will tell. Neither scenario will serve Australia, or the Liberal Party, well.

Sir Ian Crisp

18/09/2010AA, I don't think the 'people decided' as you contend. I think the correct words should be that 'two independents' decided. There is a great deal of difference.

Bilko

18/09/2010AA a good summary and it reminds me of an old but true saying "there is none so blind as those who do not want to see or none so deaf as those who do not want to hear" unfortunately we have the majority of such people on the opposition HOR and senate benches. Finally what an opportunity for the Nats to stand on the own feet especially over the NBN, I made a similar comment re the Nats 3yrs ago hoping they might grow a spine, sadly they failed then and I anticipate they will do so again.

Lyn

18/09/2010A note to Sir Ian Crisp, not negotiable The people decided, do you get it??? by giving "more votes","more seats" to Labor, Higher 2PP. That is why Abbott and Army are in Opposition, do I need to rubber stamp your head. The Abbott Army has lost it's ammunition, with as Ad Astra said "‘new paradigm’ of government emerging" Abbott's Army better start marching no I mean thinking. Do we need to rubber stamp your head again, SIC ?

tredlgt

18/09/2010 AA Straight to the point ,can only hope someone shows the drop kick this article which he will no doubt reject but any one with any ego reading this about themselves will be pissed off to the max. It would be enjoyable to watch the reaction and the defence of his stance. Happy days.

Lyn

18/09/2010Hi Ad Thankyou so much for another fantastic piece, Ad your writings are just getting more and more enjoyable, no wonder we love and appreciate "The Political Sword" so much, suffering withdrawal symptoms when OOO I wish we could register post your letter to Mr Rabbit. "We can not Risk a Abbott Government" [i]5 Reasons Abbott didn't seal the deal, saynotony, We Say No To Tony Abbott For PM[/i] close and not seal the deal leads to questions of how the [b]Coalition ultimately failed.[/b]http://sayno2tonyabbott.wordpress.com/

Ad astra reply

18/09/2010Michael Thank you for your comment. No, I don’t expect Tony Abbott to change his behaviour. He’s out today saying: “Julia Gillard is even worse that Kevin Rudd, and I thought I’d never say that.” He knows nothing but attack. Like you, I expect that eventually he will implode – let’s hope for Australia’s sake it is while in opposition. Sir Ian The people in the Country Independents’ electorates elected them to act in their best interests. By deciding to support Labor these men believe they are acting in their electorates’ best interests. So it is a moot point you make. That is why I maintain that ultimately the people elected the Government. As Lyn points out, Labour also scored higher in the TPP. Bilko Thank you for your comment. Like you I have little hope for a change of approach from the Abbott-led Opposition. Just more attack, attack, attack, destroy, destroy, destroy. Lyn Thank you for your comments. You really are a delight. Yes, it has been a while since the last post, so I hope this one will relieve the withdrawal symptoms. Thank you for the link to [i]5 Reasons Abbott didn’t seal the deal[/i], a very insightful analysis. tredltg Even if he did read it, I doubt if Tones would reflect on his behaviour. After all, he feels he is usually right, and if something inappropriate does slip from his lips, he can always ask for forgiveness and withdraw it as it was not written down.

Lyn

18/09/2010Hi Ad Sunday TV programs for you, compliments of: Sunday morning TV line up for Sunday 19 September, 2010 http://sundaymorningtv.posterous.com/ [b]Sunday morning TV line up for Sunday 19 September[/b] Sunday morning TV - an insider's guide to Sunday morning's political and business interviews for this Sunday morning; 8:00am Ch10 Meet the Press Paul Bongiorno is joined on the Panel by The Australian's Jennifer Hewett and David Crowe from the Australian Financial Review, together they interview: Leader of the Australian Greens and Senator for Tasmania, [b]Senator Bob Brown and Chief Executive Australian Chamber of Commerce, Peter Anderson.[/b] 8:30am Sky News 601 Sunday Agenda This week Sunday Agenda ... awaiting confirmation of program line up 8:35am Ch7 Weekend Sunrise - The Riley Diary Political editor Mark Riley looks at the investiture of the one-big happy Labor family at Yarralumla earlier this week, and Rob Oakeshott attempts to speak his way in to the Speaker's job. 8:38am Ch9 Today on Sunday - Laurie Oakes interview Laurie Oakes has decided to have another weekend off will return next weekend. 9:00am ABC1 Insiders On Insiders this Sunday: Barrie Cassidy interviews the Manager of Opposition Business, [b]Christopher Pyne[/b]. On the panel: the Australian’s Michael Stutchbury and the Sydney Morning Herald’s Lenore Taylor and Phil Coorey. And Mike Bowers talks pictures with blogger for The Australian, Jack the Insider. 10:00am ABC1 Inside Business This week on Inside Business Alan Kohler talks to Myer CEO Bernie Brookes. We’ll also take a look at the [b]renewed hostilities in the NBN debate and the Queensland Government’s efforts to privatise its rail network[/b].

TalkTurkey

18/09/2010Abbott is a sleaze, and worse, an outright traitor to a peaceful decent intelligent Australia. (We're not bound to parliamentary language here!)To him I say, Go break your stupid lying neck you creep, you think your own sycophantic media-coddled career more important than the whole of the nation's welfare put together. Should you ever approach me with outstretched hand in your falsely comradely gesture to shake mine, I will with glee spit &/or blow my nose into it. (That is a promise. Traitors deserve no better.) And note, I will revel thereafter at being charged with "assault", it will help me tell my story in a way your despicable media mates will be only too pleased to report - it's the sort of thing they can really get their brains and tongues around. (Readers, I bet you're enjoying this. I mean every word.) As for "Sir" Ian Crisp - btw what a sicko, and how much it tells about you that you fancy yourself with a title - I almost agree with you that the People didn't really decide, it was so-o-o nearly just ONE man, Rupert Murdoch, who so loved Australia that he sold his citizenship to become a Yank, (and it says a lot about Yanks that they would have him!). Abbott, yours is the party that has as a matter of principle drowned innocent helpless people at sea, committed us to wars of terror on innocent helpless people in some of the poorest places on Earth, sent attack dogs against unionists, kept genuine refugees for years in detention, told endless lies, oh so much hateful stuff your rotten coalition has achieved, but there is a new game in town now and you, Abbott, are going DOWN at the hands of a far cleverer fighter, and a WOMAN at that, I bet that makes you burn. Hee hee. Now, about that "Australia can't afford the National Broadband Network" - hunh - so we can afford several submarines (HM exactly I don't know) and they are going to cost . . . WHAT!? . . . Read quotes below from . . . Nick Grimm for The 7.30 Report Updated Tue Mar 9, 2010 5:38pm AEDT "Defence recently acknowledged that only two of Australia's six Collins-class submarines are seaworthy." "As Australia prepares to commit to its most expensive defence project yet, military chiefs are being warned not to get out of their depth when buying new submarines." "Defence officials will be burning the midnight oil at their Canberra headquarters in the coming months, hatching plans for an all-out assault on the nation's purse strings. Their mission will be to persuade their political masters that billions of taxpayer dollars should be committed towards building their preferred replacement for Australia's troublesome and costly Collins-class submarines. Later this year, the Defence Force will give the Federal Government its wish list for the new submarines, detailing the features and capabilities it wants in the boats. It is expected to be the most expensive defence spending project in the nation's history." "You can be absolutely sure that what they're cooking up is a very big, very complex, very sophisticated, very expensive and very risky submarine," says Professor Hugh White, head of the Strategic and Defence Studies Centre at the Australian National University and a Visiting Fellow at the Lowy Institute for International Policy. Another leading defence analyst, Andrew Davies from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, says he is also worried. "There are certainly a lot of things to worry about when planning a future submarine project because you'd have to say at the moment the Collins fleet is in a shambolic state," he said. In an embarrassing admission, Defence recently acknowledged that only two of Australia's six Collins-class submarines are seaworthy. Of the others, one needs repairs to a diesel motor and another requires repairs to one of its electric generators. Two more will be out of service for long-term maintenance for at least four years - a significant chunk of the submarines' projected operational life span. "Defence wants to replace the Collins boats by 2025." [GET THAT? AT LEAST 15 YEARS AWAY! TT] "We've seen with Collins that developing your own submarine is a pretty fraught activity," Dr Davies said. "You'd have to say the results, as we stand here today, are disappointing." Defence Minister John Faulkner admits there have been frustrations. The problems have prompted the Federal Opposition to question whether or not Australia is capable of developing a bigger, more complex submarine without also increasing the potential for things to go wrong. "It is critically important that we learn the many lessons from the Collins program," Senator Faulkner told a Senate Estimates Committee hearing recently. "I have said to Defence this is a fundamental threshold requirement." Estimates of the cost of new submarines vary wildly. The Government has indicated it wants another non-nuclear conventional sub and it wants it built, and creating local jobs, at Adelaide's naval dockyards. The likely price tag would begin at a modest $9 billion for submarines built to an off-the-shelf design. The figure rises towards $40 billion for a model fully customised for Australian conditions, and strategic ambitions." $40 billion EACH! They are no earthly or oceanly use, and they will have passed their use-by anyhow before 2025! Oh and then there's our order of fighter aircraft . . . at less than $1 billion each if we're lucky. Someone said today that for the amount of money spent on the war in Afghanistan that FOUR Afghanistans could heve been BOUGHT for that much! Imagine if that money had been spent on education . . . housing . . . hospitals . . . living standards for the people there . . . Reckon we'd need a war to get people to come over to our way of thinking? So Abbott, you remember this, that Out Here there is someone who longs to fill your hand with snot. Every time you extend your hand to someone, it might be ME! In the meantime I wish you ill, and I don't say that to hardly anyone. Grrnnnhhhhh!

Acerbic Conehead

18/09/2010Hey, TalkTurkey, you’d enjoy this bloke, lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YpAdK0CrTY

Lyn

18/09/2010Hi Talk Turkey Wow! we get a fantastic wonderful double issue, keep em coming, Talk the Turkey. Ad's excellent column and now yours, thankyou Talk Turkey, I love what you have to say. I never thought of your idea for a trick hand shake before, might try it if Mr Rabbit comes to Hervey Bay shopping centre, only thing I'm worried about, it's not very lady like, I'm thinking. Mr Abbott is petrified of Julia, she has insulted him by being Prime Minister, worse, he doesn't know how to cope, did you hear Mr Abbott has told the party faithful. Julie is worse than Kevin Rudd, but didn't I hear rabbit say he felt sorry for Kevin Rudd, a few weeks ago. Poor Rabbit, his supreme challenge has been shattered, by a female, she has mangled my brain, how can I punch her he thinks. Here is Mr lost the plot: [i]Labor has no mandate, Abbott tells Liberals, ABC[/i] "The more we see of Julia Gillard, I've gotta say, the better Kevin Rudd looks," he said. I never thought I would say that, but Kevin Rudd looks strong and principled by comparison to the current incumbent." http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/18/3015600.htm?section=justin

Sir Ian Crisp

18/09/2010AA, according to the AEC site the final tally of seats is: ALP 72, Lib-NP 72, Greens 1, Country Lib 1, Independents 4. It would seem at first glance that the two major parties finished with the same amount of seats. You then said: "The people have decided, close though it was, that Labor is the government. Accept it, even if it does stick in your craw, just as did your loss in 2007." Then you confused your message by saying: "No doubt you are angry that two of the conservative-leaning Country Independents decided to support Labor instead of the Coalition." So did the people decide or did the two conservative-leaning Country Independents decide?

ashghebranious

18/09/2010My big issue is with the oppositions reluctance to acknowledge the reforms they agreed to. Christopher Pyne claims the constitution is clear about if the Speaker votes and when. But the same paper clearly states the age a MP should be. I understand a reform was passed in 1918 and it overwrote the constitution without changing it. If Mr Pyne and Mr Abbott now want to say the reforms they signed and must obligate themselves to pass will mean the speaker still does not get a vote, then the Coalition is also obliged to concede the seat of Longman as the constitution is clear and in black and white as Mr Pyne likes to say. Your behaviour Mr Abbott is that of a child that has not got their way. You spoke today saying the ALP's acknowledgement of the result means they will not be able to pass all the policies they went to the election with as an outrage. I am more outraged by the fact you call yourself a parliamentary. Ash

Lyn

18/09/2010Hi Ash A big welcome to you, thankyou for commenting on "The Political Sword" we hope you keep coming back. Ad Astra will be pleased to see you. You have written up a fantastic piece on your blogg, Ash's to Ashes, about the constitution and fake reporting by the Australian, very very interesting. [i]Power of The People: The (in) Constitution, Ashghebranious, Ash's to Ashes[/i] Pairing’ Speaker a recipe for chaos, legal experts warn Reads the headline of its latest so-called piece of news. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/

Canbra Dave

18/09/2010Check out this article from the member for Indi: http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/the-lesson-from-the-new-paradigm-less-is-more/ "We have to re-think the notion that a bigger Government splashing around more of our money (or worse, borrowed money we have to pay back with interest) is a positive thing." The hypocrisy of this lady is galling (assuming she wrote it and not her media advisor). An Emissions Trading Scheme is a clean and cut liberal policy. It relies upon the market mechanism of supply and demand to set the price of carbon. If the price of carbon is more expensive than what it will cost the business to reduce that amount of carbon then they will reduce it. The government sets the limit and then let's the market do its thing. What the Liberal Party propose is a $3.2 billion dollar slush fund to give handouts to polluters in the hope that it will somehow convince people to do so out of the goodness of their own heart. This is in other words the government splashing around our money - the very thing that Sophie Mirrabella claims we need to stop thinking is a positive thing. Now some might say that they are just too stupid to realise their rank hypocrisy but I think they are doing it on purpose. They are chanting that they are the party of small government while at the same time opposing policy that their philosophy supports while championing policy that they claim to oppose. They know that the emissions reduction fund it just another example of big government. They even know that their idea is a complete crock - Greg Hunt did his thesis on an emissions trading scheme but went along with this shocker of a policy because he valued his own political hide above proper policy and good outcomes for Australia (he is the the member of parliament who I have the least respect for thanks to that cowardly action). It's all just part of the plan, oppose oppose oppose, miscontruct what a policy actually is and when they get into government the rest of us can go screw ourselves because they are the only ones who deserve to be in power - and if they have to abandon their values, lie about what they stand for, present policy they know is crap, then that's what they'll do.

Lyn

19/09/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]Speed Quills, Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] The journalists defend themselves, as we have seen from Annabel Crabbe and Tony Wright in recent weeks, http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ [i]The Broken Promise fallacy, Alex White[/i] Good to see our national broadcaster slavishly reporting Coalition key messages. This kind of breathless hyperventilation is typical of the astro-turf conservative “Australian Tea Party” that are increasingly popping up on Twitter and elsewhere.) http://alexwhite.org/2010/09/the-broken-promise-fallacy/ [i]Lol Australian, Tim Dunlop, BSides[/i]. From today's editorial at The Australian, entitled 'Embracing high-level analysis' http://tjd.posterous.com/ [i]Weekly Wrap 15, Stilgherrian[/i] I find it telling that he describes people favouring optical fibre for data delivery as “zealots”. Name-calling is of course a technique of propaganda rather than analysis. http://stilgherrian.com/internet/weekly-wrap-15/ [i]Abbott Cops a Kloppering, John, True Politik[/i] notably News Ltd publications The Australian and The Daily Telegraph will argue against carbon reduction on the basis of their support for the opposition Liberal Party. http://truepolitik.blogspot.com/2010/09/abbott-cops-kloppering.html [i]"Steel" Rudd, PAUL BARRATT ,Australian Observer[/i] they are examining the precedents of Bill Hayden and Alexander Downer, who both had to forego their aspirations to leadership to settle for being Foreign Minister. http://aussieobserver.blogspot.com/2010/09/steel-rudd.html [i]Breathe in, you have no mandate. Breathe out, why aren't you sticking with your mandate? Jeremy Sear, An Onymous Lefty[/i] some conspiracy by diabolical independents DARING TO WIN SEATS THAT ARE RIGHTFULLY THE COALITION’S http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/ [i]Promises may not be kept: PM, Business Spectator[/i] We are in a new environment where in order for any action to happen in this parliament, you need more consensus http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Promises-may-not-be-kept-PM-9DUCU?OpenDocument&src=hp13 [i]Australia - The NBN is like the Snowy Mountains Scheme for Hydro-Electric Power, 3WAN. Net [/i] "We can build the National Broadband Network, as great a nation-building plan as the Snowy Hydro Scheme," she said. http://sutherla.blogspot.com/ [i]Federal Election Results, wmmbb, Duckpond[/i] The situation is made more treacherous for Labor by the partisan Murdoch media. http://wmmbb.wordpress.com/2010/09/18/federal-election-results/ [i]The luxury of independence , Dominic Knight[/i] They have minimal leverage to get things done for their local area, and they aren’t even making up the numbers the way a party-aligned backbencher does. http://www.domknight.com/the-luxury-of-independence/ [i]Tony Abbott might look safe but for how long?, Mark Kenny, The punch[/i] the NBN will have rolled out ultra-fast broadband to more than a million people by the time of the next election making it literally irreversible., http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/tony-abbott-might-look-safe-but-for-how-long/ [i]Peter Martin, has twittered "The Political Sword, thankyou Peter[/i] Sharing... An open letter to the Leader of the Opposition http://bit.ly/aOg0dd about 3 hours ago via twitterfeed http://twitter.com/1petermartin [b]The Australian Tea Party[/b]: [i]Tea Party comes to Australia , James Massola, The Australian[/i]http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/capital-circle/tea-party-comes-to-australia/story-fn59nqgy-1225924785030 [i]Mister Oakeshott, Pikey, Australian Tea Party[/i] we sure as hell don’t know and find it hard to contemplate, Why you chose the Labor Party to be your new bedmate http://www.austeaparty.com.au/blog.html [i]Welcome to the Australian T.E.A. Party Movement [/i] Who are we?We are NOT a political party indeed we are Non Party Political http://www.austeaparty.com.au/

George Pike

19/09/2010I notice the ABC's corporate propaganda monger Alan Koehler has gone out his way to try and undermine the NBN rollout on Insiders Business. The corrupt thug has now totally destroyed any tiny vestige of credibility he ever had. His pro-corporate, pro-Liberal war against the MRRT, combined with this little rant against the NBN, has made him look like a worthless corporate-conservative puppet who will put the interests of the vested few way ahead of the national good. Insiders Business and Lateline Business are both totally corrupt and the ABC should be forced to dump them asap.

Ad astra reply

19/09/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

George Pike

19/09/2010The link below takes you to a fairly precise summary of the US Tea Party and how dangerous it is. It also shows us how dangerous News Ltd has become around the world. Maybe this is what Murdoch has in mind for the Liberal party...to turn it into an Australian version of the Tea Party to bring about a new social order where corporate power is absolute, governments are weak and bigotry and greed reign supreme...a corporate neo-nazi style world by any other name... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/19/tea-party-language-civil-rights

Lyn

19/09/2010Hi George I agree, Alan Koehler is just seeking negative alternative opinons, he didn't even give Stephen Conroy a fair go this morning. I wasted my time watching Insiders Business. When is someone going to say, Government funded enterprises are not a business, they are supposed to supply services with tax funds. Malcolm Turnbull the hotshot with all his wonderful, magnificent experience, made his money from a dial up company, boy, a lot has happened since then. Why doesn't Turnbull do an analysis on the amount of money the Government will make in the future from the NBN, why doesn't all these so called experts think up something, anything constructive. [i]Look beyond the mantra of business , SMH[/i] When will we stop falling for the line that governments need to run [b]like businesses, when their objectives are so different?[/b] Satellite is extremely slow, expensive and unreliable; wireless can be hindered by a row of pine trees and doesn't work when it is windy. Now we have ADSL, an improvement but not available through all local phone exchanges. http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/look-beyond-the-mantra-of-business-20100915-15cl1.html

Ad astra reply

19/09/2010Talk Turkey Your reminding us of the cost disasters under the Howard Government is timely. The Collins class submarines and of course involvement in Iraq has cost a fortune. Then there have been cost overruns for military aircraft. But do we ever hear the Coalition admitting that it had cost disasters? No only Labor has these. Lyn I hear this morning that Tones is justifying his attack-dog approach by saying he is channeling the anger and frustration he and the Coalition feels, and after all as it is an adversarial political system, that’s OK. He reminds me of a small boy in a supermarket stamping his feet and screaming at his mother because she has won’t let him have his favourite bag of potato chips. He is florid, angry, and behaving the only way he knows. That’s our Tones! Sir Ian I take your points, but I believe my original argument stands – namely that the people elected the Independents to represent their interests and by supporting the Government they believe that they are doing that. So the people have selected the government.

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19/09/2010Ash Welcome to the [i]TPS[/i] family. Do come again. You can be sure that the Coalition will want the deal that suits them best re the Speaker. It is comical that they are so laudatory about Harry Jenkins, insisting he was fair and balanced. I seem to remember him coming under sustained criticism from Christopher Pyne himself for not restricting the answers of Government ministers, which Pyne repeatedly interrupted with points of order related to length of reply and relevance. You are right about Tony Abbott – frustrated child behaviour describes his present state of mind accurately.

Ad astra reply

19/09/2010Canbra Dave That piece by Sophie Mirabella is archetypical. I was amused by her conclusion: [i]” If we truly want a new paradigm in Australian politics, we ought to be arguing for smaller Government, lower taxes, less imposition on people’s lives by Governments desperate to regulate and dictate, and we ought to be encouraging and promoting community and business enterprise and engagement. When it comes to effective Government, the truest concept is ‘less is more’.”[/i] Coming from a member of one of the ‘biggest governments’ in our political history, the Howard Government, that statement is both laughable and hypocritical. George Alan Kohler is more of a weathervane than Tony Abbott. Nothing he says surprises me, and as he seems to represent the interests of the strong and the powerful to the exclusion of the less well off, I take him with a grain of salt. Like you and Lyn, I find the Tea Party concept frightening and dangerous. Even the Republicans in the US are now showing concern after the defeat of one of their longstanding representatives by a Tea Party member.

TalkTurkey

19/09/2010Lyn, "When Adam delved and Eve span, Who was then the gentleman?" I can't find who said it first, I think it was the Levellers. These are not nice people. Reith and Howard and Abbott and all sent many boat-people to their deaths, involved us in endless wars, turned attack dogs on workers. They are traitors and war criminals, they should be charged with treason. I'll say it if no-one else does, but the problem is we are all well-conditioned par-boiled frogs, their behaviour seems normal to us because it IS normal in this Murdochracy. Children Overboard was a treasonous - and successful! - attempt to pervert the course not merely of justice but of HISTORY. They are all of the same Rotten Right that was party to the Bjelke-Petersen's action in the Senate when he replaced a casual vacancy in Whitlam's majority of one with phony-Labor Field, leading to Kerr's coup and then Fraser's truly illegitimate government. They are bastards, in the true sense: illegitimates! Usurpers! Gillard is much more of a warrior queen than she has yet got credit for, a little Welsh Boadicea to her Ranga core. She needs not ladies on her side lovely Lyn, she needs metaphorical fighters, scratchers and biters, but the only thing you may do without resorting to real violence is spitzensnotten. Abbott is a metaphorical balls-kicker after all, and as I said in a previous post, he really doesn't know how to use that talent against Julia. But fight dirty THEY will, and We must use what weapons we have to bring them down. Wouldn't it be funny if LOTS of people promised to mucosify Abbott's mitt? Especially if someone did? Imagine his hesitation and reluctance forever after to shake hands - not that I think handshaking is evil of itself, but would you want to shake hands with traitors? When you look at them in their true colours and call their crimes against humanity and country by their true names, it's all very clear. AA said it very well in this post, though not as trenchantly perhaps. (I have a penchant for trenchant.) Everything the Right does is twisted, always has been. I don't understand why Bolt and Ackerman and Andrews and Minchin et al are the horrible way they are, but they are, and they will not go away, they do need snotting, metaphorically at least, as payback for every slimy comment they make. But nothing would beat an actual big hot wet snoutful in the hand eh. Gee I like fantasizing with that, hope someone draws the Mad Monk's attention to this thread just to raise his expectations of my expectorations. How about some pledges from other readers here? Spitzensnotters Anonymous? BTW since Muntadhar al-Zaidi shoed Bush, shoe-throwing has become a wonderful standard way of protesting . . . but is is actual potential violence . . . Snot's not.

2353

19/09/2010Another good piece AA. Let me try and put it into soundbites so the LNP leadership might be able to understand it. Hopefully you're not offended. Tony, being a bully may work well in expensive private schools in Sydney, Sydney University and at Oxford. As a matter of fact, bullying is now illegal in workplaces. This shows the rest of the world has moved on. Don't tell me what you think the problem is, unless you have a reasoned and rational solution. Your 4 line mantra from the recent election doesn't even begin to cut it. Making $10 billion mistakes is OK - covering them up isn't and only discredits you when they are eventually discovered. Looking after your mates is also OK. However you have to make hard decisions when Hockey, Robb, Bishop and co are demonstrated to be incompetent. Australia is going to get mightly pissed off if you force it to endure another election inside 3 years. Why don't you spend some time working out how to make the country (rather than media executives counting up advertising revenues) richer through the production of good and well argued policy? Basically Tony, we're over the bully boy act - either adopt the "kinder and gentler" cause yourself or move over for someone in your party that can.

Ad astra reply

19/09/2010Talk Turkey You do have strong feelings, born of witnessing the injustices you catalogue. Like you, I believe Julia will be more than a match for Tones, but of course she has to also fight the Murdochracy, which will likely continue down the path of denigration of the Government, BER-style, highlighting every defect but never acknowledging success. Nonetheless she’s up to it. 2353 Thank you for your comments. You are somewhat blunter than I have been, but essentially Tony Abbott is a bully and intends to go on bullying while he can get away with it. But I suspect the public will soon tire of it and his destructive approach, and mark him down. He may have already reached his zenith.

George Pike

19/09/2010Pick the difference between the two statements below, the first from The Australian, the second from the ABC's Justin newswire. Tell me that the ABC's editors are not purely and simply propaganda mongering by intimating that Abbott could bring the government down anytime he likes...which is obviously bullshite...hard to believe the News Ltd guys are actually more neutral in their political reporting for a change! JULIA Gillard has used a speech to the Labor faithful to appeal to the opposition to resist trying to bring the minority government down. Prime Minister Julia Gillard has urged the Opposition not to bring down the new Parliament and called on MPs to adopt a less partisan approach.

jj

19/09/2010What a load of absolute bunkum! (those are Kevin's words not mine). This is an abusive and absolutely baseless and pointless letter. You talk of Tony's slogans; i didnt see you write to Julia Gillard asking her to cut the crap about work choices, or the words 'risk', 'cant be trusted', 'dangerous', 'extreme' etc; oh no you couldnt possibly do that to your beloved queen! You say that because the independents have supported the government that therefor means that they are representing the views of their constituents; what a load of crap! The Nats ran a crap candidate, have for the past few elections, and so Tony Windsor is the next best choice. The Labor/Greens primary vote is under half that of the coalition. The Coalition had held the seat from federation up until Windsor took over. Your assertions about knowing the electorate are just crap! Windsor hates the National Party with a passion, and he will be retiring at the end of this term, so he decided he would go out destroying the hope of the Nats in the process (if you dont believe me about the whole vendetta thing, just have a look at his media releases). You ought to talk about sloganeering. How about you address your own unfounded, personal, derogatory remarks towards those whose views you oppose vehemently, before you start mouthing off at them.

George Pike

19/09/2010Somethings tells me jj is pushing for a job as camp commandant at the Nauruan processing centre...she'll be able to pull the black uniform with the pretty ss badges on and do Herr Abbottler proud!

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19/09/2010jj Do us all a favour and point out where the account I have given of Tony Abbott’s slogans and misrepresentations is incorrect. Stating facts is not abuse, although you choose to categorize these facts as such. Have you not noticed that even this weekend Abbott is threatening more attack to channel his anger and frustration? The man is in constant attack mode – can’t you see that? You criticize Julia Gillard for using slogans about WorkChoices. Did you really expect her to believe Abbott’s assurance that WorkChoices was dead? From a man who still believes that there are many changes that business want and need in IR, to shelve WorkChoices completely for at least a term seemed too improbable for Labor people to believe. I wonder why we continue our argument – we shall never be able to agree.

Acerbic Conehead

19/09/2010AA, you have written yet another discerning analysis and panoramic synthesis of things political. Again, we are in your debt (though according to Tones, this is not something to crow about). However, in the meantime, Tones has read your advice and it is as water off a duck’s back. In rebuttal, he has penned you a song, which I know you won’t even lip-sync to, but here it is anyway. It is to the Churchillian melodies of Tom Petty’s, “I Won’t Back Down”. Oh, and by the way, under their AWA, his usual backing group, the Heartbreakers, got their annual day off, so Tom has engaged a few non-entities to fill the gap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvlTJrNJ5lA&ob=av2n :- ) Well I won't back down Used to playin’ the clown In the corner you can stand me up With a dunce’s cap But I won't back down :- ) Now I’ll stand my ground Even if tellin’ porkies I’m found And I’ll keep this stance every time I get the chance Yes I’ll stand my ground And I won't back down :- ) I won't back down No maybes, for me always the sleazy way out So I'll stand my ground And I won’t back down :- ) Works fine each time I spin my one line STOP THE BOATS is a veritable goldmine So I’ll stand my ground And I won't back down :- ) I won't back down No maybes, for me always the sleazy way out So I'll stand my ground And I won’t back down No way, no how, no time

macca

19/09/2010Methinks jj doth protest to much.

Lyn

19/09/2010Macca, Me thinks too

Patricia WA

19/09/2010Where is Abbott’s Confessor, anyway? Mr. Tony Abbott’s confessor Must surely advise That telling these lies Makes him a serial transgressor. Shouldn’t he counsel how sinister, Is this worldly goal? It’s risking his soul, Striving to be Prime Minister. Please intervene, Monsignor Pell. Appoint him to Rome, His natural home, Save him (and Australia) from hell.

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19/09/2010AC That’s so apt. Tones seems to be saying just that - ‘I won’t back down’. Pity! Patricia WA I see you’re another poet. Forgiveness for lies seems always to be available to Tony, or at least he believes so. Folks The spam is returning so I'm closing comments until the morning.

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20/09/2010Folks Open again for comments.

George Pike

20/09/2010Export and tourist dependent industries will hope the forecasts for the dollar to drop are correct. So will mortgage holders and other borrowers...it will keep downward pressure on interest rates too. Looks like the MRRT is the best thing Australia could ask for. http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/disappointment-risk-aussie-dollar-27-overvalued-20100920-15i8l.html

Lyn

20/09/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]The Usual Suspects, Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i]. the blogosphere are now saying - people like Nick Gruen, Tim Dunlop, GrogsGamut and Possum. Even a former Liberal Prime Minister has said them, for heaven's sake. http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ [i]Berg's bitter brew, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless[/i] Kevin Rudd's prime ministership died in the Liberal party room. A conservative grassroots destroyed a Labor prime minister. http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/2010/09/bergs-bitter-brew-liberal-is-apparently.html [i]Labor wins 2PP, Abbott equivocal on "we wuz robbed, Kim, Larvatus Prodeo[/i] Abbott, pre-occupied with the weird fantasy that he will become PM sometime this term because the Independents will suddenly realise that the NBN = “waste” http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/09/19/labor-wins-2pp-abbott-equivocal-on-we-wuz-robbed/ [i]The politics of debt, Andrew Leigh, On Line Opinion[/i] Let’s hope the Coalition can scrap their overheated rhetoric in favour of much-needed bipartisan consensus around good fiscal policy. http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=10993 [i]Another windmill; another tilt. Nicholas gruen, Club troppo[/i] Tim Dunlop has been doing some great things documenting the foibles of the media. So has Matt Cowgill and Mr Denmore http://clubtroppo.com.au/2010/09/19/another-windmill-another-tilt/ [i]Oakshott becoming a good reason for returning to the polls as soon as possible. Petering Time, North Coast Voices[/i] Tony Teh Wrecker (who thinks that the nation is nothing more than a gift wrapped present to be privately given at will) http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com/2010/09/oakeshott-becoming-good-reason-for.html [i]We're spending a fortune on new wires. In case you don't want them we'll disconnect the ones you have, Peter Martin[/i]And anyway Possum says we don't need a cost benefit study because the answer is unknowable. .http://www.petermartin.com.au/ [i]LABOR WAKES UP: Like Khrushchev before him, the Greens Greg Barber tells Labor “We will bury you”, Vex News[/i]The Labor Left refuses to criticise their principal opponent (an opponent determined to destroy them, one seat at a time). http://www.vexnews.com/news/10951/labor-wakes-up-like-khruschev-before-him-the-greens-greg-barber-tells-labor-we-will-bury-you/ [b]Ego and lies are travelling "a long road that hasn't got a turn":[/b] Why the Coalition is a better, stronger alternative , Tony Abbott, The Age more seats and more primary votes than Labor, the Liberal and National parties won the election but couldn't quite form a government http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/why-the-coalition-is-a-better-stronger-alternative-20100918-15h3z.html

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20/09/2010George
 According to the Coalition the MRRT is a GBNT. How could it possibly help this country??? Anyone who blithely imagines that Tony Abbott might honour his 'gentler and kinder place' utterance, should read what he had to say to [i]The Sunday Age: "Julia Gillard has pleaded for a new era of civility and restraint in Parliament, urging the Coalition to put aside the ''empty rancour of partisanship'' and work together with Labor for the ''betterment of the people''. But Tony Abbott has rejected the notion, vowing to vigorously fight Labor's $43 billion broadband network, its mining tax and any carbon tax proposals. ''I don't think what we are ever going to get or what we should aim for in our system is some kind of spurious consensus,'' the Opposition Leader told The Sunday Age. He said although debates over policy should be as civil as possible, ''it is nevertheless the case, rightly, that our system is an adversarial system''.[/i] http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbott-spurns-gillard-plea-for-political-civility-20100918-15ha0.html

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20/09/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx Another great batch - do read Mr Denmore's piece: [i]The Usual Suspects[/i] http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/2010/09/usual-suspects.html It is congruent with what we have been saying here for a long time.

Bubba Ray

20/09/2010When what you're doing doesn't work then you try something different.

Lyn

20/09/2010Hi George I haven't read this before, very interesting: [i]Hodgman's power play, Sue Neales, The Mercury[/i] LIBERAL leader Will Hodgman has moved decisively to seize control of the party in Tasmania, throwing down the [b]challenge to powerbroker Eric Abetz[/b]. http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/09/18/173651_todays-news.html

George Pike

20/09/2010Hi Lyn...it would be good if the Liberals would back up their statements with policy announcements...like coming out in full support of the NBN rollout in Tassie for instance. Taking over from Abetz means nothing if the policies don't change hey.

Jason

20/09/2010George, On the NBN http://skynews.com.au/business/article.aspx?id=515573&articleID= http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/UN-backs-the-NBN-report-pd20100920-9FSGV?OpenDocument&src=hp6

Ad astra reply

20/09/2010Lyn, George Interesting happenings in Tasmania! I wonder what other small ‘l’ Liberals feel about the hard right conservative direction Tony Abbott, Eric Abetz and Nick Minchin are taking the party. This approach got them almost to government but not quite. What the Liberals have to decide is which of the two approaches will now advance their cause. I suspect that movement towards the middle ground, which small ‘l’ Liberals prefer, might be where many in the Coalition would want to go. Jason These are interesting assessments of the NBN; the fact that others are watching how we do it is encouraging. This seems to be a topic about which a variety of conflicting opinions exist. Even more difficult is separating self-interest from the statements so-called experts make. When the small IT outfits insist a mix of existing technologies will do, is that opinion simply reflecting their commercial interests? I suspect so. George With Tones running the show, any Coalition support for the NBN looks impossible. He staked his campaign and the post-election discussions on demolishing the NBN.

George Pike

20/09/2010Thanks for those Jason..I relayed them straight to FBook. The truth is, I think the coalition are only against everything Labor comes up with because they didn't think of them first...very childish amateur group of individuals they are, to say the least! I meant the Tassie Libs AA...Abbott wouldn't change his petty childish little mind to save himself....but, if the Tassie Libs keep following the federal Libs policy lines, they will never win government.

Jason

20/09/2010George, The libs aren't against it because labor came up with it,I think it's in their DNA from when we first got down from the trees.The first Abbott would have said to his clan much the same that so called 'modern Abbott" says today OBJECT and OBSTRUCT. Just look at the last election, Abbott's whole vision for the future was to take the country back to what we had prior to 2007. Laura Tingle in the Fin on Friday: QUOTE Tony Windsor, the independent MP whose crucial vote locked Labor into minority government, has one way of looking at it. "One of the arguments against the NBN is its $43 billion price tag," he noted last week. "Well, apparently the actual government investment is closer to $27 billion. But I'd just note that over $40 billion has been spent on tax cuts since the last election." He's right, of course. It's funny how no one ever asks for a cost benefit analysis to be done on personal tax cuts. For that matter, until Labor came to office in 2007, governments rarely asked for any cost-benefit analysis on infrastructure projects. END QUOTE

Rowan

20/09/2010Hi Ad astra, I think you mean Abbott is *uninterested* in economics, not *disinterested*. These words are often interchanged, but have distinctly different meanings. Disinterest is impartiality (Abbott could not be described as impartial on economics, surely!), uninterest is lack of interest. Sorry to be a grammar nazi, I really can't help myself... Nice post. Sooner or later the Libs will wake up to the fact that Abbott lost them the election, not that he nearly won it for them. I can't believe they don't see it now. Rowan

Burton Haynes

20/09/2010Thats a great topic/blog. It reads very well .

Isagenix Reviews

20/09/2010Your letter to Mr Abbott is very polite and objective. Your thoughfullness is considerable.

Min

20/09/2010Rowan, precisely. I think that nothing could be clearer than post-election Abbott. Obstruction, obstruction, obstruction and wafting off into fantasy land that the indies could change their minds any tick of the clock and install him to his rightful place.

Lyn

20/09/2010Hi Ad A dire point of view on the NBN, via a Liberal Blog Ummmm: Coalition policy on the NBN, Ken Nielsen, Catallaxy Files If in three years some people have got fibre and the rest are waiting, a threat to stop the rollout will not be popular. http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/09/20/coalition-policy-on-the-nbn/ [i]Essential Research: 50-50, William Bowe,The Poll Bludger[/i] The latest weekly Essential Research survey finds the two parties still gridlocked at 50-50 http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2010/09/20/essential-research-50-50-2/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CrikeyBlogs%2Fpollbludger+%28The+Poll+Bludger%29

Michael

20/09/2010Headline from the UK Telegraph newspaper: "Sweden elections end in hung parliament, rise of far-Right". Might it simply be that we are too close to see..? Or acknowledge because of the apparent buffoonery of Abbott and his immediate coterie?

Lyn

20/09/2010Hi Ad Ummmm again, doing a lot of ummming today aren't I: Liberals may change broadband plan , News Com. OPPOSITION frontbencher Christopher Pyne has flagged that the Coalition may change its broadband policy. http://www.news.com.au/business/liberals-may-change-broadband-plan/story-e6frfm1i-1225926344628#ixzz102sxHPrs http://www.news.com.au/business/liberals-may-change-broadband-plan/story-e6frfm1i-1225926344628

Lyn

20/09/2010Hi Eveerybody Miglo tells us about Christopher Pyne's announcement: Come Monday and it’s policy on the run, Miglo, Cafe Whispers Young Chris, the spokesman for everything, has announced to the adoring press that the Coalition – wait for it http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/come-monday-and-its-policy-on-the-run/#comment-9211

jj

20/09/2010MALCOLM Turnbull has seized on a UN report that urges a competitive, market-based approach to the development of highspeed broadband networks. The report by the UN’s Broadband Commission for Digital Development recommends "a market-led approach facilitated by an enabling policy environment" as the best way to promote the deployment of and use of broadband networks. And it has called for a "technology neutral" mix of fibre, wireless and other technologies to get there. Coalition Communications spokesman Malcolm Turnbull has seized on the report as proof that there is no need to be "dogmatic" about the need for a fibre network. The report found that "it is unlikely that any single technology will be able to provide all the answers". And while it described optical fibre as "desirable at the core of the Internet and for the majority of backhaul traffic", it found that "at the edges of the network and in particular in the hands of end-users, it is most likely that mobile devices will deliver many applications and services". "There is a role for a host of different technological solutions in providing broadband access - from cable to fixed wireless; from satellite to microwave; from xDSL to mobile technologies; and many more. Policy-makers should seek to adopt a technology-neutral approach as regulation needs to accommodate new upgrades of current technologies, as well as future technologies which do not yet exist," the report states. "Future-proofing technology - as well as the regulation to cope with the technology - may be impossible to achieve fully." The vice chairman of the UN Commission, Hamadoun Toure, has described the Federal Government’s NBN as "one of the world’s most ambitious broadband build out programs," adding that many countries were watching to see how Australia would tackle the rollout to remote communities, according to a report in the Fairfax press. Dr Toure said the NBN could be a vital driver of economic growth, but warned encouraging a competitive market was also vital. Mr Turnbull said the Coalition did not question the importance of broadband. "The issue here is simply this: is the construction of a $43 billion NBN, without any business plan or cost benefit analysis, a responsible investment by Government?," he said in a statement. "If, as seems highly probable, the value of the network is going to be considerably less than its cost (contrary to the claims by Prime Minister Rudd that it would be commercially attractive for mums and dads to invest in) then, how is that destruction of value justified? "Can the goal of wider access to broadband be achieved more cost effectively? This is the debate we need to have." The Commission’s report says cost savings of just 0.5 to 1.5 per cent in the health, education, energy, transport and content distribution sectors over a 10 year period "could justify the cost of building national point-to-point, fibre-to-the-home", but cautions that subsidies are crucial to achieving high speeds in rural areas. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/fast-broadband-best-served-by-market-un-report/story-fn59niix-1225926804836

jj

20/09/2010‘waste’, ‘rorts, ‘mismanagement’, ‘debt’ are some of the slogans you stated were incorrectly used by Abbott. Well i am afraid AA that all of these words do apply to to many of the governments programs (BER, Insulation, Computers in schools, Solar Rebates scheme, Water buy back scheme etc). You may disagree with the quantity of the issues with the programs, but that does not mean that these words cannot be used. On the issue of Julia Gillard's ranting and raving about workchoices, it was a slogan. Just to clear it up, the Coalition are a political party, and like all political parties their main objective is to gain power. Now in 2007 the Coalition lost power because of their industrial relations policy...so why the hell would they want to bring it back?!?!? Your argument just doesnt make sense! Oh and by the way, any industrial relations reform that leads to the empowerment of the individual and the improvement of working conditions for each individual employee is a good thing not a bad thing. Workchoices went too far, but that does not mean that any movement towards flexibility in the work place deserves to be labeled with the badge of it being exactly the same as Workchoices! As you AA seem to use this argument a lot, it really does show your obvious ignorance in this area, and your happiness to play dumb, and use labels rather than observe the facts!

Jason

20/09/2010jj, If the NBN is that bad why doesn't Abbott get his dodgy accounting firm to crunch the numbers,put up or---------------

Jason

20/09/2010jj, "Oh and by the way, any industrial relations reform that leads to the empowerment of the individual and the improvement of working conditions for each individual employee is a good thing not a bad thing" So from you great experience how does one employee have better working conditions than any other in the same work place? Or do you mean a form of Apartheid should be in place?

jj

20/09/2010Jason, Working conditions that suit their own personal circumstances eg flexible working hours; flexible holiday arrangements; flexible payment option etc. These are all things that cannot be negotiated through blanket approach bargaining. Surely you dont think it is a bad thing to be able to have a job that is molded in a way that allows you to mork more productively, with more enjoyment! Oh and a great com back on the NBN issue. When the government actually does a cost benefit analysis, and a business plan, showing that the business can actually make a profit and deliver for investors, rather than affecting the budget bottom line than i will do as you ask. But hey, i trust the UN, maybe you dont? Well that is your small mind's problem.

George Pike

20/09/2010Sooo, there ya go then!!! Christopher Pyne for speaker maybe??? That'll shut all the Liberhacks up for a while at any rate! http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/20/3016948.htm?section=justin

Jason

20/09/2010jj, Read my earlier post on what your member said about tax cuts and the NBN! as to work place flexibility it's all well and good in places that you can, but in industries like mine yes I get paid well but I'm on call 24/7 and just spent 3 days in Indonesia, there aren't many places or crane company's I can go to ask what you say,even though we are unionised.

macca

20/09/2010If a cost benefit analysis needs to be done why not do one, retrospectively, on the national highway and feeder roads system and use that as the benchmark for the viability of the NBN. Both systems have pretty much the same geographical spread. Both are/can used for inter/intrastate commerce. Both are/ can be used for private enjoyment and communication. Both take massive amounts of start up money and ongoing maintenance. One does and the other will go right past your front door. If the national road system isn’t viable, and I suspect it’s not, on monetary figures alone, then close it down or charge a toll on every road in the country until it is……and can the NBN. If those morons in the opposition insist we go backwards we might as well make a damned good job of it. What was the Telstra business plan again? Sell off a tax payer owned enterprise, bring in the three amigos, pay them much more than they could ever be worth, allow them to gut the major telecommunications infrastructure of the country, drive the share prices down and sack thousands of Australian workers. Then, if that isn't bad enough, give $8 million or so to them so they leave the country richer on our dollar than when they came. The dickhead duo, Howard and Costello did this. Can you imagine what the present collection of morons and boofheads in the coalietion would do? It would be carnage....but the big end of town, the money manipulators, thieves and gentrified swine, who own Abbott and co. would do quite nicely. Another thought; If a war came to our region or our shores. Would you like to have the communication system of the nation in the hands of overseas hedge funds? The same applies to our mining industry.

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20/09/2010Rowan If this is your first comment, welcome to the [i]TPS[/i] family. Do come again. I’m happy to accept ‘uninterested’ in economics as a descriptor for Tony Abbott. Lyn I suspect that Malcolm Turnbull will not want to stick to the patchwork approach that he’s been handed. If he doesn’t believe in something he argues it poorly. jj Malcolm will seize on anything that assists him to sell the unsellable, the Coalition’s broadband plan. He hasn’t got his heart in it. Is anyone saying that fibre-to-the-premises is to be the ONLY technology? No. Everyone knows that wireless will continue for the mobile applications – it must. But we know that it has limitations of speed and the capacity to transfer large files. This is why we need the fibre solution for all those applications that demand speed and large file capacity. I outlined them in [i]Would Tony Abbott be stupid enough to trash the NBN?[/i] http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2010/08/04/Would-Tony-Abbott-really-be-stupid-enough-to-trash-the-NBN.aspx With those applications taking place outside the wireless network, its capacity is thereby not imperiled by asking it to do more than it reasonably can. We know that the more traffic on wireless, the slower it becomes. Those who can’t see why we need fibre-to-the-premises have not thought through the applications that it can already service, nor do they have a vision of the applications that might arise from that technology, some yet to be conceived. Regarding the Coalition’s sloganeering, Labor supporters might have found them more digestible had they been accompanied by some recognition of the benefits of the schemes to which ‘waste’, ‘mismanagement’, ‘debt’, ‘rorts, were applied, such as a million roofs insulated and thousands of school buildings erected. But no, all we heard about from the Opposition was the defects. To talk about defects without ever mentioning benefits is dishonest, but consistent with the adversarial system the parties continue to use. To tell only half the truth is to lie – it’s as simple as that. Regarding workplace relations, what surprised us was the Tony Abbott so readily abandoned his long stated wish to improve IR, especially individual contracts and unfair dismissal, which Labor suspect he still longs for, which is why so many believed he would bring back those aspects, call them WorkChoices or not. Jason obviously understands more than I do about IR, and has responded to your comments. Macca You make some very sound points. I hope jj digests them.

Miglo

20/09/2010Aa, you are pure genius. The letter is a masterpiece that I could never have written . . . too many 'f' words would have littered the pages.

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20/09/2010Miglo You are too kind. I'm glad you enjoyed the piece.

Miglo

20/09/2010Aa, I more than enjoyed. I've suggested that visitors to Café Whispers come over to TPS to read the brilliant letter. Still can't work out how you managed to avoid certain 'f' words. ;-)

Jason

20/09/2010jj, You say you run a business, hide all details of your business and show us what your contracts consist of? Or show me what you would offer for a new starter?

Acerbic Conehead

20/09/2010AA, I read somewhere that Tones was out again on his bike yesterday. I’ve come to the conclusion that he sees his bike-riding as a symbol of his desire to be the top dog and dominate parliament. So, if Question Time is just another opportunity for Tones to pump the pedals, then we are in for an ‘interesting’ Tour de Bacle. Here he is, in song, serving notice to the parliament that he intends to ride rough-shod over it. It’s to the shock-absorbing melodies of Dr Hook’s, “A Little Bit More”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkEpkUhYT_g :- ) When your saddle’s had enough of me And you’re laying flat out on the deck When you think I've Raleighed you all I can I'm gonna ride you til you’re a gibbering wreck :- ) Come on over here, right between my thighs I've got to be astride you Let me rub your tired handle-bars The way Johnny used to do Look into my eyes – I’ll give you that glare The one I find easy to put on None of that kinder, gentler crap Cos I’m gonna demolish the NBN :- ) And when your saddle’s had enough of me And you’re laying flat out on the deck When you think I've Raleighed you all I can I'm gonna ride you til you’re a gibbering wreck :- ) Got to say a few things that have been on my mind And you know where my mind has been Haven’t learned any lessons And now isn’t the time to begin So if your tyres are pumped and you're ready for me I know that I'm ready for you We better hit the road now Cos Gillard’s bitten off more than she can chew :- ) But if the bogans have had enough of me And are ready to push me out the door I’ll just put on my old broken record Playin’, “STOP THE BOATS”, just a little bit more

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21/09/2010AC Another touch of satirical genius - the way you match tune and lyrics is magic. "[i]Look into my eyes – I’ll give you that glare 
The one I find easy to put on 
 None of that kinder, gentler crap 
 Cos I’m gonna demolish the NBN"[/i] How apt.

Sir Ian Crisp

21/09/2010In the interests of balance… AA, you said(of the coalition): “You can see that we are disturbed not just by your modus operandi, but distressed that you seem intent on disruption, demolition, destruction, demeaning and damaging the Government at every opportunity, and determined to replace it with a Coalition Government … .” You also said: “…namely that the people elected the Independents to represent their interests and by supporting the Government they believe that they are doing that. So the people have selected the government.” If the above is true ― and you said it so it must be true ― would it be reasonable to say that the people who voted for the Lib-NP Coalitiion have given their imprimatur to the coalition to adopt a program of “disruption, demolition, destruction, demeaning and damaging the Government at every opportunity”? Surely if the Independents enjoy carte blanche from their supporters the same carte blanche has been invested in the coalition by its supporters.

Lyn

21/09/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]The Numbers Game, Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] Possum's combination of sceptical intelligence, determination, literacy, humour and a mastery and understanding of data that is most vital in journalism. And we need more of him. http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ [i]Not that songsheet again, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless[/i] but spare us all this glassy-eyed focus on parliamentary theatre as a substitute for real news about what's going on and how. http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/2010/09/conventions-of-political-journalism.html [i]Like Stalin, Glenn Milne makes tenuous comparisons, Tim Dunlop, BSides[/i] I'm really not sure how an article like this justifies its existence, other than by the fact that maybe it will generate a bunch of comments from people noting how stupid it is http://tjd.posterous.com/like-stalin-glenn-milne-makes-tenuous-compari [i]Legitimate Government, The Notion Factory[/i] Government has now been formed – and whether you like it or not, it is legitimate http://notionfactory.net:80/2010/09/20/legitimate-government/ [i]Euthanasia and territory rights, The Conscience Vote[/i] They’ll be forced to either defend or repudiate the Howard government’s interference. http://consciencevote.wordpress.com:80/2010/09/20/euthanasia-and-territory-rights/ [i]Tony Abbott has a Point, Paul Barratt, Australian Observer[/i] Effective operation of the next Parliament is in fact Tony Abbott’s worst nightmare http://aussieobserver.blogspot.com/2010/09/tony-abbott-has-point.html [i]Death Doesn't Concern Them, Reb, Gutter Trash[/i] guess how, where and when you die isn’t all that important to Mr Abbott or Mr Andrews, but they seek to deny others the freedom to make their own choices. http://guttertrash.wordpress.com/ [i]Euathanasia: The debate the Greens don't really want us to have!, Left to Think[/i] Insiders discussed the issue and they were all of a similar opinion that this would allow the Territories to re-legislate and authorise Euthanasia. http://lefttothink.blogspot.com/ [i]To Be, or Not To Be, Niall Cook, Hyperidian Bannerman[/i] STD didn’t cost anymore and timed local calls – what a bogus boogey-man scare tactic that was – never eventuated. Neither will any of the dark-cloud doom predictions of FTTH. http://www.waddayano.org/blog/2010/09/to_be_or_not_to_be.php [i]Australia - Former opposition leader back as shadow communications spokesman , attacking the NBN, 3WAN.Net[/i] He makes a couple of pointed remarks in relation to the telco, the most pointed being that he does not intend being a cheerleader for Telstra. http://sutherla.blogspot.com/2010/09/australia-former-opposition-leader-back.html [i]an ideas -free zone? ,Gary Sauer-Thompson, Public Opinion[/i] what matters for Stutchbury is not the content of the criticism per se, but the criticism itself. It's another part of The Australian's kick the ALP meme. http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2010/09/an-ideas-free-z.php#more [i]States Rights, David Havyatt, Anything Goes[/i] in NSW it looks like an "Abolish State Government" party might be our best hope http://davidhavyatt.blogspot.com/2010/09/states-rights.html [i]YouCommNews - Open for Business, Margaret Simmons, The Content Makers[/i] It is YouCommNews. You can read more about it in today’s Media section of The Australian. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/

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21/09/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

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21/09/2010Sir Ian I see how you are arguing your point, but what I said was that the people have elected their members, whatever their status, to represent their interests. In my view that does not give them carte blanche to act in any manner they think fit. It does not give the Coalition carte blanche to adopt a program of “disruption, demolition, destruction, demeaning and damaging the Government at every opportunity”. While the most rusted-on supporters might endorse that type of behaviour, I doubt if everyone who voted Coalition want and expect the Coalition to take that approach. Hold the Government to account by all means, but do it in a non-destructive, non-disruptive, non-obstructive way. Sometimes Tony Abbott talks as if that is his intent, only to revert to attack-dog status in the next interview.

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21/09/2010Folks I'll be away from my computer for several hours attending to a sick relative. I look forward to reading your comments when I return.

adelaidegirl

21/09/2010SIC would it be reasonable to say that the people who voted for the Lib-NP Coalitiion have given their imprimatur to the coalition to adopt a program of “disruption, demolition, destruction, demeaning and damaging the Government at every opportunity”? What a ridiculous assertion! Is it fair to say that you went to the polling booth to vote for you chosen candidate with destruction in your heart? Or did you vote for your chosen candidate in the hope that your candidate's party would be elected to RUN THE COUNTRY?!?! Really, a more empty and childish argument I have rarely heard.

D Mick Weir

21/09/2010We are now seven days from the first test of the new government. Pursuant to Section 35 of our Constitution ‘The House of Representatives shall, before proceeding to the despatch of any other business, choose a member to be the Speaker of the House, ...’. The result of this ballot will set the tone for this term of parliament. We have had a lot of commentary on reforming the workings of parliament and particularly around The Speaker of the House. There have been (mis)interpretations of the constitution used to justify certain political ends, not the least, by some members of the opposition claiming that it would unconstitutional for Rob Oakeshott to be Speaker. There may conventions that suggest it would not be workable but in the end they are only conventions and there is nothing to prevent this parliament from establishing new conventions. On second thoughts, the hope of political or personal gain will, as always, cloud the thinking of some players. Obviously, most of the drive to see reform happen is due to the finally balanced nature of the composition of the House. It is interesting to note there has been little, if any, discussion on reform of the operations of the Senate. To me any discussion on the desirability of an independent Speaker needs to be accompanied by discussions about having an independent President of the Senate. In amongst these discussions it would be wise to consider the positions of the deputies in each chamber. It may be appropriate for the deputies to also be independent of the major parties. If there is a real will to reform how parliament works a way can be found to implement and institutionalise positive change despite supposed constitutional impediments. As a private member of the broad Australian electorate I propose that the Australian Parliament pass laws that would create a special electorate using the boundaries of Government House in the ACT to be represented by two members of the House of Representatives and two Senators. To be eligible to stand as a candidate, those people would be nominated by two thirds of the members of the appropriate chamber. The voter/s in this electorate would be the Governor General (and their spouse?). The legislation may need to state these members of parliament will be elected to the appropriate positions though it could be just a convention. There will be a few other mechanical details to be worked such as should there be limit on the number of terms that could served, what would happen if one of them wished to retire before the end of their and others. From my limited understanding of the constitution this is a solution that could be implemented now and if over time it is seen to work could be voted on at a referendum to become part of the constitution.

Patricia WA

21/09/2010[quote]Down With Dastardly Deeds Of Disruption, Demolition and Destruction Of Our Democracry![/quote] You rightly deplored yesterday Abbot’s devilish power play. His dastardly determination To ensure disintegration Of our duly elected parliament Must be described as decadent. Abbot's more than discontented. One could say he is demented. His dark ‘modus operandi’ Which he thinks is fine and dandy In boxing ring or distance race Could this time bring him to disgrace. All those ‘d’ words which he’s using, Deliberately aimed at bruising His opponents; their disruption, Demolition and destruction, Could result in a Double Dissolution. That’ll bring decisive resolution! Then sun loving Aussies will decide If a driven demon will over them preside. Or if Julia, a delightful ranga grinner, Will be deemed the lucky country’s choice as winner.

Lyn

21/09/2010Hi Patricia WA You are delightful, thankyou for cheering up our blogg. I meant to tell you before, what a pretty gravatar. Love this verse: Abbot's more than discontented. One could say he is demented.

Lyn

21/09/2010Hi Acerbic Conehead Our other delightful contributor. Would you tell me if you know this song: Mairzy doats and dozy doats And liddle lamzy divey, A Kiddlely divey too, wouldn't you? If the words sound queer and funny to your ear, A little bit jumbled and jivey, Sing 'mares eat oats and does eat oats And little lambs eat ivy'. A Kiddlely divey too, wouldn't you? Cheers

Min

21/09/2010Yep, D Mick Weir. Our Constitution states that it is incumbent upon a government to choose a member of the House of Reps to be Speaker. There is no proviso that a Speaker be from any particular party or that the Speaker cannot be non party aligned. Abbott's opposition is arguing that choosing an indie isn't in the spirit of the Constitution. Just another of Abbott's tiddly-whats. As I mentioned over at Cafe Whispers Abbott could have shot himself in the foot. Abbott was trying to put it out that the indies could change sides any tick of the clock. Now if you were Oakeshott especially, why would you do this given that Abbott has failed to support Oakeshott for the position of Speaker.

Lyn

21/09/2010Hi Ad Abbott hopes, but the ABC hopes more: Abbott still hopes independents will switch sidesPosted 18 minutes ago , ABC Mr Abbott is still hopeful of becoming prime minister by convincing the two country independents who backed Labor to switch sides. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/21/3018073.htm

Hillbilly Skeleton

21/09/2010Aaaarrrggghhh!!! Just under one week without the Internet or telephone!!! My stove has never been cleaner, my garden neater, or my house more dust-free! :) But I'm back now, thank goodness. I will return with a more lucid and relevant comment when I get through the backklog that I have missed.

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21/09/2010D Mick Weir Thank you for your thoughtful contribution. You suggest some interesting ideas. As Harry Jenkins said earlier today, what will set the tone will be the attitude and approach of the main players, not any set of rules to which they might agree or group hugs in which they participated Patricia WA I like you rhyming verse. Min Tones is indulging in wishful thinking if he thinks he can seduce the Country Independents to the Coalition. Just about everything he is doing will result in the opposite. Lyn I think that Tones has given many mixed messages these last few days. Who knows what way he will jump.

Lyn

21/09/2010A big hello to Hillbilly How're you going Hillbilly, gee I'm glad you're back, we all have missed you big time, I said to John my husband we have lost Hillbilly out in the wilds somewhere, oh! where oh! where can she be. Don't worry about the backlog, just start now. Glad the stove and the house work is done, now you wont need to do any ousework for 12 months, just stay on our blog and have fun. Big Cheers!

Hillbilly Skeleton

21/09/2010lyn, Thank you so much for your warm welcome back. :) I will also add that I have had time to compose a new blog for TPS, if AA agrees to let me put it up! It should follow on nicely from this one. ;)

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21/09/2010HS May I add my 'welcome back' to you - we've missed you. I look forward to seeing your next piece. I can see you too are suffering 'the Telstra syndrome'. This must be one of the poorest companies in this country. I hope the NBN will pull it out of the pit in which it seems now to permanently reside. I spent half an hour today trying to change the expiry date on the card I use for prepaying my mobile phone, went from Australia to the Philippines and back again, and still got nowhere. I gave up.

TalkTurkey

21/09/2010WOW what a political powerplay. This is real history in the making, like the 1978 Windies Tour or 11/11/1975. I'm glad Julia is such a negotiator, meanwhile Abbott has reneged on his 'pairs' agreement, made it impossible for Oakeshott to be Speaker, pity really I think, I wasn't too impressed with Harry Jenkins, he might have been Santa Clausy but he had no control at all over the Pines and Hockeys when they raised idiotic bogus points of order. Abbott still thinks he can persuade the Indies to come over to his side, hunh, in a pig's eye, that was never going to happen but when he reneged that puts it beyond hilarious. If I were Speaker, I would accept a maximum of one such bogus point of order per Member per sitting, two or three per week, any more and then fffw'ttt! out the door for the rest of the day. Oakeshott I think might have been pretty much of my persuasion in that respect. RESPECT? Did I say respect? The Coalition were a bloody disgrace all through Rudd's Government, but I tell you what, I think that with things the way they are, there will be enough fascination with parliamentary proceedings that the far Right will just have to pull its head in. Never mind the long boring answers, STOP THE BULLSHIT POINTS OF ORDER! But wouldn't it be good to hear the Chair spit the dummy one day and scream at Whining Pine, SHUT THE ---- UP!!! Hillbilly Skeleton, we feel your past pain. "There's a Horse without a pal, in a broken-down corral, There's a Cowboy who's afflicted with remorse, And a Skeleton Hillbilly who has gone completely silly 'Cos his emails have to come to him in Morse!" Sorry.

Hillbilly Skeleton

21/09/2010Ad Astra, Thank you for the kind words. Actually, I must claim a mea culpa and also throw in some kind words for Telstra in this instance. I waited 4 days for a Telstra technician to come to our house, which was the worst part of the whole deal, however once here he was friendly and figured out the cause of my problem in 5 minutes. What had happened was that my son had kicked out the phone plug from the wall socket when he was fixing his desk which it is behind. We forgot to check this but checked absolutely eveything else to no avail(isn't that always the way?). Anyway, he politely pointed out my mistake and left our phone line back up and running. Sadly, however, just having had the phone disconnected from the modem put them out of sync. Thus, still no internet. Finally, this afternoon another Telstra tech came back because the re-syncing fix that he had tried to put in at the exchange hadn't worked. So he went over all my lines and connections inside my house and found the cause of my problem(which is what they are paid to do I suppose, but it was done in such a friendly way I was pleasantly surprised). I had placed one line filter too many into my setup between modem and telephone and it was that that was causing the hiccough that they couldn't figure out. He took it out, and hey presto! the internet works better than ever. And none of it has cost me a red cent! So, credit where credit is due. Telstra gets a bouquet for a change. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

21/09/2010Talk Turkey, I felt like I was back in the 19th century for a week there! Btw, did you see Chrissy Whyne on the news this afternoon coming out with the bs excuse for walking away from the deal he signed with the Independants? He said that the Constitution was more important than any deal signed with the Independants. What a flaming, two-faced liar and hypocrite. He was all sweetness and light when it came to signing the deal, before the Indies had made up their minds about who to support, but now that they had decided to side with Labor, both he and that slippery Leader of the Opposition, Tony 'Wrecking Balls' Abbott, think that they can now renege on the deal they signed simply for their own perceived political advantage. Tony Abbott puts Machiavelli to shame, fair dinkum. You just can't trust him. Thank God he didn't become Prime Minister. Though he won't stop spending his every waking moment from now on trying to change that outcome.

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21/09/2010HS It is gratifying to hear a good news story about Telstra. I find the local Telstra technicians are always helpful; it is the central organization that I find so frustrating. I actually went to a T Life shop today to change my credit card expiry date. They couldn't/wouldn't do it. They just gave me a number to ring and that's when I got on the Telstra merry-go-round and when I got dizzy I got off. I'll try again tomorrow.

Lyn

21/09/2010Hi Hillbilly The Technicians and operators at Telstra are wonderful, it's the CEO'S and the woeful, dreadful, system, Telstra doesn't care about customer service or customer complaints, they don't have to or need to. If they get 99 complaints out of 100 feedback forms, they couldn't care less, the big wigs, will say "well one customer was happy, that's fine then". The workers are treated like nobody's, just a number, this has all happened since Howard privatised Telstra. They sacked something like 40,000 workers since privatisation,installed automated voices everywhere and closed down hundreds of exchanges, threw Customer Service in the bin, and just carried on with their monopoly. I am speaking as an ex employee, since I left high school . [quote]because of the manner in which it was privatised, Telstra is able to effectively ignore its customers, and the demands of the market in general, and reap money from its bizarre, monopolist position.[/quote] [b]Everybody should read this[/b], the most accurate report I have ever read on problems with Telstra: [i]Two birds, one stone: Telstragh, Patrick Ashforth , The Sporadic Rager[/i] [b]The private Telstra has effectively left one of Australia’s most important modern industries in a state of complete disfunction, and at the same time has severely damaged itself.[/b]http://sporadicrager.blogspot.com/

D Mick Weir

21/09/2010Cheers Min I wasn't aware of your comments at the Cafe - I haven't been there often maybe I could change that!! It is probably irrelevant but, from my very addled memory, back when the constitution was being formulated the only formal party was the Labor Party (formed in 1891 I think) and some semi formal groupings around Free Traders and Protectionists. I can’t recall if these ever become formal ‘political parties’. I have gathered, since I wrote my previous comment, that Section 40 of the Constitution was the stumbling block being used to thwart Mr Oakeshott. This section leaves no doubt that the Speaker only has a casting vote in the event of a tied vote. Convention suggests that the Speaker would usually resolve the deadlock in the negative. The Constitution makes no mention of a Deputy Speaker that I can find. The question that comes to my mind is if the Deputy Speaker is presiding do they become the Speaker? Where does that leave the Speaker? Do they then become an ‘ordinary’ member or persona non grata? There may be something in standing orders (or more likely the unwritten conventions) that covers the situation but I don’t know. It seems that (perceived?) political advantage is trumping the new paradigm. Did we foolishly expect something different from an opposition that ‘wuz most definitely robbed and spitting the dummy at an illegitimate guvmnt?

D Mick Weir

21/09/2010After a bit searching I have come across two interesting articles about the Spearkership. Ken Parish over at Club Troppo has some good commentary on the legal aspects: http://clubtroppo.com.au/2010/09/16/the-constitutions-a-bit-of-a-problem-for-oakeshott/ Stephen King runs through various permutations of the numbers ate Core Economics in his post ‘Speaker, voting and simple mathematics’: http://economics.com.au/?p=6237 There seems to be a lot of back tracking going on and bring up a lot of spurious arguments to justify a change of heart on the reforms agreed to last week. Christopher Pynes comments today along the lines of ‘no agreement can override the constitution’ reminded me of Samuel Johnson’s statement that “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” Interesting times indeed!

Patricia WA

22/09/2010[quote]Mr. Rabbit Thought's On the Speaker Problem[/quote] I know I did agree to pair Whoever held the Speaker's chair. Now though I am a bit lukewarm About that contract for reform Of parliamentary practices Without a few appendices Should those bolshie independents Put Labor in ascendance. What they did was detrimental To my plans so kind and gentle. Clearly they were asking for a fight, Chosing Left instead of doing what was Right!

Lyn

22/09/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]A Slanty Poll for Slanty Coverage. Election coverage gets thumbs up, Grog. Grog's Gamut[/i] Those bloody poor, going broke, getting ready to move to East Africa, miners http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2010/09/slanty-poll-for-slanty-coverage.html [i]The Boredom Killing Business, Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] There's nothing that current affairs television likes more than a good stoush, http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ [i]Missing the point of the criticism of election coverage, Tim Dunlop, BSides[/i] Green provided invaluable information; unfortunately, many in the media didn't read it or chose to ignore it. The classic case was the kerfuffle about the 2PP preferred vote, http://tjd.posterous.com/missing-the-point-of-the-criticism-of-electio [i]Media Watch: When Ignorance Equals Racism, Kevin Rennie, Cafe Whispers[/i] A crosspost from Red Bluff/Global Voices:When Ignorance Equals Racism http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/media-watch-when-ignorance-equals-racism/ [i]Doors duty and other daily duplicities, Nicholas Gruen, Club Troppo[/i] The whole show is pretend, in a sense the ultimate reality TV, the ‘set’ is the backdrop of Parliament House, http://clubtroppo.com.au/2010/09/21/doors-duty-and-other-daily-duplicities/ [i]Groan, Robert Merke, Larvatus Prodeo[/i] Alan Kohler thinks “Australian households and businesses should start preparing for a steep increase in electricity prices http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/09/21/groan/#more-16981 Cost benefit rationality of the false NBN dichotomy, Renai LeMay, Delimiter to get their dirty hands off the ball, it was a push in the back goddammit! Malcolm Turnbull, get your hands off our NBN! http://delimiter.com.au/2010/09/20/cost-benefit-rationality-of-the-false-nbn-dichotomy/ [i]Telstra offers free NBN trial in Tasmania, Renai LeMay. Delimiter[/i][b] five ISPs have signed up to provide NBN services in Tasmania [/b]— iiNet, Primus, Internode, Exetel and now Telstra, with notable exceptions being Optus and TPG. http://delimiter.com.au/ [i]Telstra to run Tas NBN pilot , SMH[/i] Telstra CEO David Thodey announced the trial on a visit to Hobart on Tuesday, saying the company wanted to see how it could use the network. http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/telstra-to-run-tas-nbn-pilot-20100921-15l6c.html [i]Two birds, one stone: Telstragh, Patrick Ashforth , The Sporadic Rager[/i] The private Telstra has effectively left one of Australia’s most important modern industries in a state of complete disfunction, and at the same time has severely damaged itself. http://sporadicrager.blogspot.com/ [i]I Hope They know who to blame, Jeremy Sear, An Onymous Lefty[/i] Everyone who voted Liberal. You wanted a two-speed economy – welcome to the consequences. http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/ [i]Stable Government Mantra, Graham, Ambit Gambit[/i] Putting a Liberal in as speaker negates the contribution that Bob Katter made to the instability of government by deciding to back the Coalition. http://www.ambitgambit.com/2010/09/20/stable-government-mantra/ [i]New political paradigm shows early signs of wear, Donald Othwell, National Times[/i] The new political paradigm sealed with the famous 'group hug' may not in reality survive much beyond the 28 September resumption of parliament. http://www.hardenexpress.com.au/blogs/national-comment/new-political-paradigm-shows-early-signs-of-wear/1947422.aspx?storypage=1 [b]Alan Jones interviews Tony Abbott today[/b] ALAN JONES: If they stick Jenkins up though and he’s not paired, now for the benefit of our listeners that means that he doesn’t get a vote. A truly independent Speaker is just that, he’s independent of any voting on specific legislation, he basically is, he lacks any kind of role in the deliberative, or deliberations of the Parliament and therefore if he were to be such a person, Jenkins say, the current Speaker, he wouldn’t get a vote on any of the Government’s legislation. They then wouldn’t have the numbers in the House. TONY ABBOTT:Well, they’d be down one. ALAN JONES:Yep. TONY ABBOTT:Instead of having, with the Independents 76 votes, they’d only have 75 votes. http://australianconservative.com/2010/09/alan-jones-interviews-tony-abbott-today/

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22/09/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

Lyn

22/09/2010Hi Ad Mungo's latest column for everybody. D Mick Weir & Talk Turkey might enjoy this piece: [i]Julia’s risky adventures in paradigm, Mungo MacCallum, The Echo[/i] one of ferocious opposition. But by locking himself so firmly into the past, he risks dealing himself out of the game altogether. http://www.echo.net.au/opinion-piece/julia%E2%80%99s-risky-adventures-paradigm

Lyn

22/09/2010Oh! Ad That Mungo link has acted up again Here is another go: Julia’s risky adventures in paradigm, Mungo MacCallum, The Echo one of ferocious opposition. But by locking himself so firmly into the past, he risks dealing himself out of the game altogether. http://www.echo.net.au:80/opinion-piece/julia’s-risky-adventures-paradigm

Lyn

22/09/2010Hi Ad Works but looks like, everybody will have to clickon Opinion on the left hand side bar of the Echo for Mungo's piece.

George Pike

22/09/2010Did anyone else watch the farcical performance of Twiggy Forrest on Lateline Business last night? How anyone could stand in front of an elite audience (the Jewish-Australia Society?) and lie through their teeth like that is just beyond belief. Forrest's attacks on the MRRT and the NBN were ludicrous, nothing but worthless destructive selfserving nonsense. "Burying cables is old tech', wireless is the way of the future"...can you believe anyone would lie like that, purely in the selfish pursuit of political outcomes that suits their own particular agenda? The man is a contemptible fraud...a liar and a cheat...and it really makes me wonder just HOW he rose to the position he now holds as the country's wealthiest individual. As far as the MRRT goes...if something is NOT done to curb Australia's mining boom very shortly, there is going to be mayhem within those industries that strongly rely upon a low dollar for success...and for those people and businesses who rely upon interest rates remaining stable because they are heavily in debt. I think Glenn Stevens is very wrong in trying to claim that the mining boom helps everyone, because it is obviously garbage. I'd like to see him come down here to Tassie and try and explain that position to the forestry workers, export produce growers, fishermen and workers and businesses within the tourism reliant industries...he would be run out of town. The high dollar not only affects exports either, e.g.,vegie producers cannot compete with foreign growers when the dollar is so high because the importers can bring goods in for less than what it costs the growers to produce thier goods. The local tourist industry is also heavily impacted by Australian travellers heading overseas to take advantage of the higher dollar. I hope the government takes very strong action to ensure that the MRRT is brought onstream as rapidly as possible...damn hard with a hung parliament and a screwball making up the numbers in the senate. However, the weight of public opinion would be very much on the government's side if they can get the message out there that the MRRT will ensure that interest rates are kept low and that the hundreds of thousands of people in "low-dollar critical" industries will keep their jobs.

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22/09/2010Lyn Mungo's piece added to LYN'S DAILY LINKS where the link works.

jj

22/09/2010AA, Can you tell me the sense in setting up the NBN scheme, which is supposed to be a commercial venture, and not doing a business plan? Why the hell would anyone invest in a scheme for which we dont know if it is going to make a profit or not? Do you realise that if the NBN co does not end up being viable and actually runs loses, or does not get the expected investment, any of the extra money needed will come straight off the bottom line? So what you might say. Well i dont know about you, but i do not think that we should not be going into a project which we want to be able to make a decent return; plus get private sector investment; that is going to cust upwards of $25 billion (if all goes according to plan) without knowing whether the business will be able to fund its self, or whether it will have to be funded by the tax payer.

Jason

22/09/2010jj, the Sydney cross-city tunnel had a cost-benefit story that saw the private sector enthusiastically competing to fund it, with eventual very red faces after it went into receivership 16 months after it opened. So you point on the NBN is what? jj just because you and Abbott wish to live like the Amish I don't.

George Pike

22/09/2010Strange how Telstra are willingly opting in to the NBN scheme hey Jason! Strange how the eyes of the western world are also srongly focussed upon the scheme if it's a dead set flop as some of the armchair experts and politically biased frauds claim hey!

Jason

22/09/2010George, I saw twiggy last night and thought, as a business leader and now a critic of the NBN he should lead by example move his head office out of the city to the deserts of WA have Abbotts broad band installed then come and sing it's praises. What a stupid thought.

Jason

22/09/2010AA, Not sure if you have seen this yet? http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/21/vic-labor-mp-lets-loose-on-gillards-messy-visionless-campaign/ still reading it myself so will comment later.

Jason

22/09/2010It speaks for it's self http://wilsontuckey.blogspot.com/

jj

22/09/2010What, just because the cross city tunnel had a faulty business plan, means that no other companies should? Great logic! Maybe if NBN co actually does a business paln, we can iron out some of the issues before the rollout goes too far. As for you armish jab; i think it is actually 21st century business practice to do a business plan. So maybe it is you that are living in the dark ages. If the NBN co plan is as flawless as you trust it to be, than why are you so objectional to the whole idea? If you are right it will stack up; so what is the problem?

prosta delovna mesta

22/09/2010uxoaumlrypcbtgrjpgbf, http://honorar.si, AVQcETC.

Jason

22/09/2010jj, I don't have a problem apart from the price tag whats yours? I don't live in the dark ages if the government of the day wishes to stump up money for infrastructure that is vital for the future then who am I to complain? Howard failed in this area, as quick as we could rip stuff out of the ground we had and still have ships sitting at anchor because we cant load them quick enough.Windsor said the other day just over 40 billion had been handed out in tax cuts since the 2007 election are you outraged at that? Nauru what was that going to cost? PPL again how much and how long? Abbott's own costings didn't add up and you lecture us. I may be one of the ones that watches movies and play games with the NBN but why shouldn't you have the same access to the Internet as me who lives in a city, in case you missed it the 3 indi's said after the last election for to long regional Australia has missed out, so the government wants to change that and all you tea party members can do is whinge I think you would complain about sex on you wedding night. jj it's time for the campaign to do nothing to stop!

NormanK

22/09/2010Peter Martin's strenuous objection to the NBN has set me to thinking and re-evaluating the merits of the project. So I went back to the NBN Implementation Study Report to review the overall plan and see what they spelt out as likely outcomes and pitfalls. http://www.dbcde.gov.au/broadband/national_broadband_network/national_broadband_network_implementation_study The authors of the report go to great lengths to spell out that the study does not: "- Evaluate Government’s policy objectives; - Evaluate the decision to implement the NBN via the establishment of NBN Co; - Undertake a cost-benefit analysis of the [b]macro-economic and social benefits[/b] that would result from the implementation of a superfast broadband network." And yet what it does do is spell out that the project should pay for itself in terms of government investment in 15 years. That is, by 2025 the nett cost to taxpayers will be zero. The study points out a wide variety of ways by which the government can minimise costs and maximise returns if external factors like GFC II come in to play or if things go better than expected. How NBN Co goes about recovering its expenditures would be up to normal business practices including the possible sale of some or all assets but with each passing year, starting now, the NBN will be bringing in income. The study is not a CBA because it does not try to evaluate increases in GDP, movements in unemployment figures, benefits to education, health etc and effects such as gains in export revenue and so on. Yet despite not factoring in these potential gains, the Implementation Study believes the Government will recoup its costs by 2025 at the outside and if it wished, could then start to turn a modest profit on its investment. There is no need for a cost benefit analysis because the nett cost over fifteen years is zero and the benefits are through the roof. All of its costings and estimates are conservative ( i.e. on the pessimistic side ) and at the time of writing did not take into account a deal with Telstra for existing infrastructure which in their opinion would bring costs down and speed up the roll-out. The $43 billion top line figure is extremely conservative since it does not factor in efficiencies which can be learned from the early part of the roll-out, competition among contractors, bulk-buying discounts and anticipated lowering of prices for equipment and cable as it becomes more readily available. Turnbull's talk of what the NBN will be "worth" once it is built is complete nonsense and he knows it. If one were to be completely pessimistic and allow that it might take 20 years to clear the government debt ( including interest ) we would still at the end of the process have a valuable piece of infrastructure which could bring easy money into the public coffers or if it was sold it would provide a windfall in the tens of billions of dollars. For those with the time and energy ( and patience ) I recommend reading parts of the report since it answers most of the questions being put about by nay sayers. It is a complex document though. As a final point, can we just get over the number 43 billion. Anticipated nett cost to taxpayers will be, by hook or by crook, zero. Not too big a price to pay methinks.

Lyn

22/09/2010Hi Ad Our friends at the Cafe having a nice time chatting: Meet the “New Tony”… Same as the “Old Tony, B Tolputt, Cafe Whispers Meet the New Tony Abbott, same as the old authoritarian, dishonest, and frankly unelectable old Tony Abbott. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/09/22/meet-the-new-tony-same-as-the-old-tony/

jj

22/09/2010Jason, But the problem is that there are more people in rural and regional Australia, who would prefer to have a working hospital and safe roads before they got 100 mb/sec. For many farmers and other regional residents, the NBN is important, but they believe that the $43 billion could go along way to delivering the basic infrastructure both social and economic in our area. Good to see you trust governments because i dont. Just because it comes from the bureaucracy, doesnt mean it is right. scrutiny from the public is what the NBN needs, to make sure that there isnt any waste, and that the business does actually produce a profit. But unfortunately this government is not into transparency, and you have to wonder why!

jj

22/09/2010Norman K, How can they make all of these assumptions about the amount of profit they are going to make, and the total value of the network once it has been completed, when there has not been a business plan done? You do realise that if there are any cost overruns (such as not as many invest in the project as forcast, or take up rates are low) then all of that will come off the budget bottom line. If the treasury cannot forcast how our budget will behave year to year, than how the hell can we trust that they have got this 15 year projection right?

NormanK

22/09/2010jj Grow up. Not one Treasury forecast has been accurate. EVER. Assumptions are made. Are you suggesting that a business plan for the NBN would not be full of assumptions? Have you read any of the document to which I provided a link? It contains almost all of the information that you are calling for in a business plan but not laid out in a way with which you might be familiar. Incidentally, it was done by independent evaluators.

Jason

22/09/2010jj, But the problem is that there are more people in rural and regional Australia, who would prefer to have a working hospital and safe roads before they got 100 mb/sec." I agree So what does the state government do? that's their domain, No doubt when the Liberals get into government O'farrell can say for years to come because of the way Labor left things I can't do anything then what?

Lyn

22/09/2010Hi Ad Links on the NBN , they are inviting comments on nearly all links, I thought JJ might like to comment on some of them. Telstra says NBN talks progressing , SMH Legislation creating a framework for a deal on the NBN must still pass through parliament, http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-business/telstra-says-nbn-talks-progressing-20100922-15mnh.html The NBN will beat the coalition again, Paul Budde, Business Spectator missed opportunity for the opposition and one must wonder at the purpose behind it. Do they want to be beaten again at the next election on a third attempt to kill the NBN? http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/The-NBN-will-beat-the-coalition-again-pd20100921-9GTZV?opendocument&src=rss NBN after the election - full Steam Ahead, BuddeBlog Two elections later and the Opposition still doesn’t get the NBN Opposition favours a crusade rather than good policies http://www.buddeblog.com.au/frompaulsdesk/nbn-after-the-election-full-steam-ahead/ The NBN: What it means for Australia, Joni Sham, Upstart By rolling out a broadband infrastructure, with the level of bandwidth optical fibre offers, this can provide microscopically accurate medical services, education and other services to the most remote Australians,’ http://www.upstart.net.au/2010/09/22/the-nbn-what-it-means-for-australia/ Why Wotif founder Graeme Wood is an arsehat, Stilgherrian Remember 1995? No VoiP telephony, unless there’s no-one else using the internet link. No Skype. No video chat. No AJAX-based software as a service — including Wotif’s own rich interface for booking hotel rooms http://stilgherrian.com/politics/why-wotif-founder-graeme-wood-is-an-arsehat/ Only LNP Still Opposes National Broadband Network, My Sunshine Coast It will be a game changer in addressing rising healthcare costs, delivering digital education, empowering marginalised communities and mitigating climate change." http://www.mysunshinecoast.com.au/articles/article-display/only-lnp-still-opposes-national-broadband-network,18754 You think 12 Mpbs is enough.... A look back at the last 10 years, Insert Clever Title Here There is no technology on the horizon that is going to be able to compete with Fibre to the Home for speed. This is a rare chance for Australia to be a world leader http://www.wolfcat.com.au/randomrants/2010/09/postid-1416/

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/09/2010I still think that jj is a fat, pimply, 20something Coalition staffer in Canberra who has been assigned to this blog to be our resident troll. Either that, or his business is very, very under-supported. :) No, actually I do believe he is real. I also believe that he lives off his Foxtel/Sky feed and wouldn't be able to think critically about Coalition policies if his future depended upon it. Also, taking an aggressively negative attitude towards anything the Labor government proposes, he just shows ever so clearly that he is not interested in discussion, but only in didacticism.

NormanK

22/09/2010Hillbilly Skeleton I fully concur. More fool me for responding to jj's fatuous nonsense. By the way, you were missed, as was Lyn on her "day off".

Jason

22/09/2010jj, What say you? It's even published in the Liberal party paper. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/legal-advice-handed-to-the-pm-is-expected-to-resolve-who-will-become-speaker/story-fn59niix-1225927990158

jimbo

22/09/2010Hi Lynn Was very happy to read your Telstra link,very informative but the piece under that about media bias should be required blogger reading because it gives all bloggers sick and tired of media bias a place to send all their media bias reporting to so that it can be collected saved and archived and used as proof of media bias in the future so if you would like to Lynn i will leave it to you to link to this and other blog sites if you deem it as something wothwhile as i do.Thankyou Lynn it would be very moch appreciated.

TalkTurkey

22/09/2010One thing about jj, he/she/it does make one keenly glad that one hasn't a crabbed crazy cranium like that. Zzzeeeshhhh! Here's one for you, jj, let's see how well you defend your attack on the NBN for the (lying) claim that it's predicted to cost the Government $43 billion, (it's of course actually predicted to cost the Govt $26B but don't let the facts get in your road, let's say it is in fact $43B, hell let's say it's $100B over time . . .) but defend your stand, go on, against the predicted cost of $40 billion for just ONE submarine (of the several the Coalition ordered) which MIGHT be ready by 2025 ! I bet you do support the subs, you're THAT STUPID eh! Oh yeah it was Askin's equally stupid Rotten Right government that cavilled at cost overruns on the Sydney Opera House . . . so infuriating Utzon the he went back to Scandinavia never to return, to Australia's eternal shame . . . Now the building is Austalia's #1 national architectural treasure, and it is absolutely priceless. So much for Rotten Right's credibility.

Lyn

22/09/2010Hi Jimbo I thought the same as you about that particular blogger, what a good idea. But then I went reading, reading, reading, and now I can't remember the bloggs name. Jimbo can you tell me the name of the blog, was the link under Today's Links? and if so which day. Hope you can help me because I will go crazy trying to remember the name of that blog.

jimbo

22/09/2010Hi again Lynn Yes the link was number 10 on the first lot of todays links from you I am sorry i am not up to doing links as i dont know how.The section i was talking about is under your telstra one and is called.A call to action,Archiving media corruption.

janice

22/09/2010jj, [quote]But the problem is that there are more people in rural and regional Australia, who would prefer to have a working hospital and safe roads before they got 100 mb/sec. For many farmers and other regional residents, the NBN is important, but they believe that the $43 billion could go along way to delivering the basic infrastructure both social and economic in our area. [/quote] I am curious to know if you are a farmer or live in rural Australia. If you do come under the rural and regional umbrella, how far away is your nearest hospital? Most farmers and rural business people (and the further they are from a city/large town centre) the more they realise their need for the NBN. Can you imagine the difference the Royal Flying Doctor Service made to the people of the outback? I can, because the RFDS radio was instrumental in saving the lives of me and mine as well as giving all of us living in remote areas a connection to each other and a feeling of safety by having the ability to yell for help when it was needed. So, reliable and fast communication is the most important infrastructure for rural and regional Australia. IMHO the cost doesn't matter one jot because the benefits are simply enormous. Abbott's cheap jack scheme would be a waste of time and money.

Lyn

22/09/2010Hi Jimbo Jimbo, thanks for that, yes it was, Patrick Ashforth The Sporadic Rager. An excellent piece and he is inviting anyone to report Media Bias, Newspapers, TV, radio Patrick has supplied his email for any relevant information to be sent to him. A Call to Action: Archiving Media Corruption, Patrick Ashforth The Sporadic Rager I am beginning what I would like to call the Media Corruption Archiving Project. The concept of such an archive is simple. I will be collecting and cataloging articles, stories and general presentational bias (burying negative stories in the depths of a newspaper, for example) which implicate the media as pursuing the subjective agenda of their owners and advertisers, as well as generally reducing the quality of reporting. So, how can you help? Simple, really, if you see anything which you perceive to be indicative of media bias or just generally bad journalism, let me know. If the article is in print, take a copy of the article or tear it out. If it's online, send me a link. If it's on TV, take down the date, program and the subject of the story. If it's an example of presentational bias, write a brief explanation of that bias. Email these details to me (pat.ashforth@gmail.com) and I will add them to my archive. The point of this project is to build a comprehensive base of evidence for why the media needs to change. It will form the basis of a number of projects I intend to pursue in the near future. I will post updates of the project, as well as highlights of media terribleness and details of any projects which arise from this one, at regular intervals in the future. Your help is very much appreciated, and will be rewarded down the track. Patrick Ashforth said... In case you are wondering, yes, I will be including the ABC in this, they are hardly flawless http://sporadicrager.blogspot.com/2010/09/call-to-action-archiving-media.html

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22/09/2010Folks Thank you all for your comments. I believe you have answered jj well, although he/she is unlikely ever to be satisfied. I've posted your links about the NBN Lyn; I hope jj reads them. Tomorrow afternoon there will be a post from HillbillySkeleton titled [i]The Coalition bouncing like a dead cat[/i]. I've been busy preparing for a road trip from Melbourne to Cairns right up the middle, starting Saturday next. How well I can service [i]TPS[/i] on the way remains to be seen. I'll give your more details later.

jimbo

22/09/2010Thankyou Lynn Can you imagine the ammount of ammunition that would be built up if all like minded bloggers and blogsites contributed to this one site which is what most of us have been hoping for a single site to accumulate all the recognised media bias including as he says the ABC,so lets go for our lives and send it all to him.

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/09/2010NormanK, Thank you for your generous thoughts. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/09/2010Has anyone thought of giving over our very own archive of media bias to Patrick Ashforth? I know, as is the case with these things, that it has tailed off recently, but I still believe that we got together some worthy examples of media malfeasance, and especially ABC Coalition lap-doggery.

Jason

22/09/2010AA, No need to worry as to how you'll service TPS on your trip, according to Abbott and jj our Internet infrastructure is as good as it gets. I would find it hard to believe you would come across a black spot or find yourself unable to get coverage.

Lyn

22/09/2010Hi Hillbilly Jimbo has. Patrick Ashforth is dedicated, I think he would do good things with the TPS archive, see what Ad says.

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/09/2010Business Spectator certainly is a beast with two heads. One the one hand you have Alan Kohler pushing his anti-Mining Tax, and now anti-NBN agenda hard, especially through the subscription-only side of his Newsletter, and on TV on 'Inside Business', yet on the other hand I'm finding that the daily free newsletter from Business Spectator has some really well-balanced pieces in it that I find myself nodding my head in agreement with. Though I will say that most of them are by Rob Burgess. As is the one below: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Abbott-Coalition-MRRT-tax-pd20100922-9HSFT?OpenDocument&src=kgb * And this one by Paul Budde should especially be read by jj: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/The-NBN-will-beat-the-coalition-again-pd20100921-9GTZV?OpenDocument&src=kgb

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/09/2010Might I also just add that jj appears to not be able to see that the answer to his plaint of, 'What about new hospitals for the bush?" is actually answered by the provisiion of the NBN to Rural and Regional Australia, via its e-Health initiative. For it is exactly this facet of the NBN that will provide the Doctors into his area that will be able to, literally, see their new patients in the upgraded and new Hospitals that will result from the ALP's Health and Hospitals initiative, which Kevin Rudd worked out with the States prior to the last election. Well, except for the Liberal fly-in-the-ointment State of WA, that is. Not only that, but it is the Labor federal government who has finally expanded the number of places available in our Universities for training of the Doctors and Nurses that this country, and especially the Rural and Regional parts of it needs. Which is in contrast to the Coalition, who appeared to favour a system of training Australian students for the Private Health system and the Specialties, and imported, or should I say, poached, Doctors from 2nd and 3rd World countries to staff our Public Hospitals. Not that I am saying that they were all as bad as Dr Jayant Patel, but I will say that the standards of medical education in those other countries are not always as high as ours and so that has a natural consequence on the standard of doctors that they produce. Their hearts are in the right place, their skills are not. Put it this way, I'd much rather that more of our own kids were trained to be the Doctors and Nurses that we undoubtedly need.

colen

23/09/2010HBS You are very trusting that those new hospitals will be built. I thought the plan was to bring the current health shambles created by your wonderful state labor ministries up to scratch. Regarding NBN and Telstra I thought Telstra's Copper was hopeless and that we don't need it. The NBN will wipe it out. Jules was so desperate that Telstra has suckered red into buying a system she doesn't need. Who is the smart one? Telstra will become a maintenance company, build the NBN and make a fortune out of gullible idiot's who couldn't run shite.

colen

23/09/2010HBS I thought we needed all that imported labour. We have a skills shortage according to your duly elected representatives. We need all those Asian students firstly to support our Uni's and secondly to work in Rural and Regional area's because there is a demand for our own kids to work in Metropolitan Area's. They also do not want to work in the region's. Look at the movement of students from the Country to the City . Please define "our own kids". Are you finally showing your true colours? A latent conservative.

Lyn

23/09/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]Newspeak, Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] Rupert's culture warriors are still circling the wagons, seeking to smear their critics http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ [i]“Sound and fury signifying nothing”, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison[/i] It’s a further embarrassment to The Australian that they have to rely on such defenders running such defences, really. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2010/09/22/sound-and-fury-signifying-nothing/#more-7329 [i]Reforms, Norms, and Storms (in a Teacup?), Ashghebranious, Ash's to Ashes Blog[/i] Rob Oakeshott sticking his hand up for speaker was never the issue. But his call for a deliberative vote was. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com:80/2010/09/22/reforms-norms-and-storms-in-a-teacup/ Pairing speaker is 'constitutional', ABC The Federal Government has released legal advice that shows the proposed changes to the Speaker's role are valid under the constitution. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/22/3019253.htm?section=justin [i]Blindingly Obvious What’s Happening Here, Hyperidian Bannerman[/i] continuance of political attacks against the Labor government by the Murdoch press, in particular, The Australian. http://www.waddayano.org/blog/2010/09/blindingly_obvious_whats_happe.php#more [i]Labor’s six (almost) fatal mistakes Rodney Tiffen, Inside Story[/i] Labor is still deciding who will review its election performance and how far back they will go http://inside.org.au/labors-six-almost-fatal-mistakes/ [i]Turnbull must learn to pull his head in, Gus, Your Democracy[/i] Lies and gnarl that nearly got Abbott across the line, [b]with the help of the super-steroids from uncle Rupe and his dung beetles. [/b]http://yourdemocracy.net.au/drupal/node/10099

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23/09/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

Hillbilly Skeleton

23/09/2010colen, Still with the old conservative scam of trying to peel off Progressives and colour them blue? No, wishing to support an expansion of University education of Australian-educated students to fill the Medical Skills shortage, and thus to deepen and strengthen the opportunities presented to Aussie schoolchildren from all walks of life, especially, is a typically economically-progressive and redistributive policy such as will always be favoured by social democrats. Especially when you combine it with concurrent Labor Party policies to increase the number of University Scholarships which will be provided to students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, as well as massively increasing the number of Indigenous kids training to be Doctors and Nurses. As my support for such policies does not incorporate a strain of economic elitism to go along with support for increasing the number of Aussie kids training for Medicine, an economic elitism and restriction of places that Conservatives support in order to drive up the amount that Doctors can charge for their services, due to their limited supply, then I do not believe therefore that you can validly characterise me as a newly-minted conservative. You wish! But sorry, my heart will always be with those who seek to raise all boats in our society equally, and advance students based on merit not how much money their parents have to pay for a tertiary or other education. Also for the political movement that seeks not to facilitate some to be able to afford gigantic megacruisers whilst employing others on wages that keep getting progressively whittled away from 'Take It or Leave It' Individual Contracts. As for the Public Hospital system, well, after 12 years of abject failure by the Howard government to invest in their maintenance and provision of best practice services, it's going to take more than a few months, which is all the federal government has had since the new deal was signed, to turn the Howard government's failures in this area around.

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23/09/2010Folks I'll be on the road for a few hours. When I get to Melbourne late this afternoon a new HillbillySketelon piece: [i]The Coalition bouncing like a dead cat[/i] will be posted.

NormanK

23/09/2010colen What on earth are you talking about? [quote]"Regarding NBN and Telstra I thought Telstra's Copper was hopeless and that we don't need it. The NBN will wipe it out. Jules was so desperate that Telstra has suckered red into buying a system she doesn't need. Who is the smart one? Telstra will become a maintenance company, build the NBN and make a fortune out of gullible idiot's who couldn't run shite."[/quote] The government is negotiating to buy Telstra's existing infrastructure such as pits, tunnels and exchanges. Copper has nothing to do with the deal, will stay in Telstra's hands and is destined, for the most part, to be decommissioned over time. Also the agreement will cover compensation for the migration of Telstra customers from the copper network to the fibre one. Telstra will have nothing to do with the initial build of the NBN including ancillary equipment and will not be getting their grubby hands on any significant infrastructure. Ultimately Telstra's retail arm will just be one of many customers buying access to the network at wholesale prices which will not only be the same for all ISPs but will now be, under the agreement with the country independents, a flat rate right across the country regardless of cost of deployment. It's so easy to be snide. Somewhat more difficult to be accurate.

Hillbilly Skeleton

23/09/2010Nice little line from someone writing on The Australian's Letters page(I'm surprised that they printed it considering their current jihad on the NBN): 'Love the idea of a cost-benefit analysis of the National Broadband Network. Next can we please do the botched Iraq and Afghanistan wars?'

George Pike

23/09/2010So, Labor's great big new tax on smokers has caused 300,000 people to kick the habit...makes the Liberals look like a complete pack of frauds does it not! http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/23/3019779.htm?section=justin

jimbo

23/09/2010Hi all Has anyone noticed that when the abc do articles that are good for labor they are only between 50 and 200 words eg.the pairing of speakers not being against the constitution last night and now today about the cigarette tax and the amount of people quitting also others on previos occasions is this abc's answer to showing supposed even handedness in their reporting,if so it is a joke especially when the libs usually receive a full page.GET A LIFE SCOTT AND YOUR LIBERAL LACKEYS.

Colen

23/09/2010Hi NormanK, It would be very sensible to say, "No new copper" This means that cable upgrades, which are a normal part of the maintenance process should be replaced with fibre. This also does not mean that wireless should not be considered as a part of the mix. One thing that is sure is that the technology choices today will be different to technology choices in eight year's time. It is sickening to see a government say it is spending $48B+ of tax payer's money, but the plans are set in stone and hidden from those, who are having to foot the bill. This is no way to run a country. If they were trying to run a public company like this, there would be a stock holders' revolt. Yet, because this is now political, common sense, good project management and good engineering are excluded.

jj

23/09/2010Good luck to you all, "it doesnt matter one jot what the cost is"; and by-god i hope you are not in charge of anything of any importance to Australian society! You can call me mad, you can call me crazy, but you still cant answer my question: What is so wrong about the government doing a business plan?!?!?!?! Oh and i do live on a farm just out of Uralla, and you know what i would, as would most others, prefer to have a decent hospital in Tamworth or Armidale, which doesnt have an emergency ward that is overloaded with patients, and under serviced by staff. I would much prefer to have decent roads to try and stop the many accidents that occur around here. I would much rather have decently run schooling for my children. I would much rather have a first tier University built and funded in Northern Regional Australia. For $43 billion, i reckon most of that could be done. Sure it is the states responsibility, but it has been a long time since we had any hope in your mates in Sussex street.

Jason

23/09/2010jj and colen, Like Abbott everything you two say should be treated the same Bullshit!

George Pike

23/09/2010why don't you anti-nbn idiots just jump on your bikes and head off to mongolia or somewhere...neanderthals..

NormanK

23/09/2010Colen I haven't been at TPS long enough to know whether you are genuine or pulling my leg. I suspect the latter. Not one word of what you have written makes sense in light of the facts which are readily available. Wireless and satellites have not been omitted - they form part of the NBN and also private operators will have enhanced capability to expand their coverage by using the new fibre. It's not $48 billion, it's 26//27 billion taxpayer dollars up front which will be FULLY recovered including interest. Nothing is set in stone - in fact flexibility is built-in to the plan to accommodate changing circumstances. Nothing is hidden - follow the link above to a full and detailed document spelling out the proposal. You will find the $25 million Implementation Study is chock full of good project management, world-class engineering and plenty of common sense. It might help if you didn't rely on the totally incompetent MSM to spoon-feed the information to you. TPS is a valuable resource but it needs to be used properly. You really should read other peoples posts closely, digest what they have written and most importantly, follow the links to more dispassionate, professional commentary. What I was endeavouring to point out in my first post is that if everything goes to plan the NBN will pay for itself. The reason private enterprise won't touch a project this size is because the returns would be too small for their shareholders and the time-frame is too long to satisfy instant gratification investors.

Jason

23/09/2010colen, " If they were trying to run a public company like this, there would be a stock holders' revolt." Since the government isn't a public companay the stock holders revolt every three years at a federal level and four years at a state level. Your a fool

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23/09/2010Folks Back again. A piece by HillbillySkeleton has been posted: [i]The Coalition bouncing like a dead cat[/i]. Enjoy. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2010/09/23/The-Coalition-bouncing-like-a-dead-cat.aspx
How many oranges do I have if I have 3 oranges and take ONE away?