What were you expecting - fireworks?



I was just watching some vintage Paul Keating in full rhetorical flight the other day as I was recuperating and contemplating the ramifications of Wayne Swan's Banking Package, released in early December. Which seems eons ago when you've been to Hell and back, as I have been since then. And it occurred to me, the electorate expected a Paul Keating-like 'Bang!', but instead it came with Wayne Swan's customary polite political whimper. Very Oz-like, as in Wizard of Oz-like.

Especially the bit where the Wizard tries to convince Dorothy from the (Kansas) Suburbs that he really means it when he lets out all manner of exhortations from behind his facade, painstakingly constructed so that people couldn't easily see the meek and mild-mannered guy behind it.





Same thing with Wayne Swan and his Banking Package. There he was for weeks before it was released, thumping the tub and making as much loud noise as his tiny body could muster. He would scare the pants off those porculent Bankers (I'm mainly thinking Mike Smith from ANZ, here). Then, by the time he's finished, they'll all sit down obediently and behave like he wants them to. The Banking Package won't even need to be so cataclysmic with the sorts of changes to be imposed as to rock any boats therefore, and Wayne could then retire to Brisbane for Xmas and New Year, job well done.

Except for one small matter! The Australian electorate has been spoilt of late when it came to Treasurers. Sublimely at the peak of his powers as Treasurer was the Master of Vaudeville Switch-Flicking, Paul 'Ramrod' Keating. What a hard act to follow. What a class act.

So, the electorate expected this:



but instead they got this:



'Mr Sobersides'


Not to mention the fact, and as I say so often, when it is appropriate I will do it, that the Coalition threw onto the stage a pretty handy performer as Treasurer, when they were elected in 1996. One, Peter Costello. We may have loathed his H.R.Nicholls-esque ideological tendencies, but he was as interesting to watch in Question Time, in his own uniquely gormless way, as was Keating.

And then there was Wayne. See what I mean? He could re-write Basel III for the global financial system single-handedly, and the Australian electorate would go 'Meh.' Which is sort of what happened, actually, with the Rudd government's response to the GFC. 'World's Best Practice', and 'Best In Show', by popular acclaim, globally and locally. Yet still I get the feeling that that equates to a collective shrug of the shoulders from the electorate. I'm sure, thusly, Wayne Swan spends his downtime wondering, “Why don't they love me too? What more could I do?”

Well, put simply, Wayne, get a Funny Bone transplant. Sadly, it appears that that's what the punters are crying out for. Some more 'Wicked Wit' to go with their KFC Wicked Wings, as they chow down in front of the 6 PM News each night.

It's not going to happen, though. 'Fiscal rectitude' is Wayne Swan's motto, as opposed to 'Flamboyant Rhetoric'. Such that that is the only reason I can think of for the electorate preferring the $11 Billion Black Holey Roller Joe Hockey, when it comes to Economic Management credibility. He does the 'Fizz! Pop! Whiz! Bang! Whirr!' thing better than Wayne. It's surely not because of his superior economic competence.

Anyway, onto the Banking Package itself, with which I assume you are all well familiar by now. So, a precis of sorts. Long story short, it was a bit like this:



The Curate's Egg


It certainly wasn't one of these:



So, while the Opposition and the Greens talked tough about bringing down measures to curb the outlandish behaviour of the Big Banks, Wayne Swan actually delivered a package. And no, I don't count Joe Hockey's 9 dot points without any supporting legislation as any sort of equivalent substitute from the other side. As Laurie Oakes appeared to also say at the time in Banking on Wayne Swan’s tactics a good bet

As far as the package itself goes, the headline grabber was a ban on exit fees on new mortgages written after July 2011 (although fees will remain on existing mortgages) and a plan to pump another $4 billion into the Residential Backed Mortgage Securities market, which should help improve the pool of credit available to smaller lenders, and which should also hopefully flow through to Small Business as well as home buyers.

As Wayne Swan himself said at the time, “Generally making the market more competitive is just as important for someone who has that dream of owning a small business as it is for someone who wants to buy a home.”

So, what else is in it?

Firstly, the government will set up a feasibility study, to be run by former RBA head Bernie Fraser, to examine ways to make it easier to shift deposits and mortgages, including the introduction of full account number portability, which is something the Greens have been pushing for. Account portability is something that would truly enhance competition and the Big Banks don't really want.

Secondly, the Government will set up a taskforce with the RBA to examine competition reforms around ATMs, with the Central Bank to examine whether the $2 ATM fee is fair and reasonable.

There will also be new regulations to crack down on so-called 'Price Signalling' by the banks (the process by which they make public statements about rate rises and effectively warn each other what they are going to do), and new legislation to crack down on 'unfair' credit card fees, charges and conditions.

Finally, there are a few good old government information campaigns. All new home loan customers will get a mandatory home loan information sheet, and there will be an information campaign to help consumers understand their new rights and responsibilities.

Wayne Swan is also intent on building a 5th Pillar to rival the Big 4 banks, and sees supporting the mutual sector-credit unions and building societies as the best way to do this.

To this end he will encourage the banking regulator, the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, to fast track the approval of 20 mutuals that want to call themselves banks.

Further, the mutuals will be at the centre of a government campaign to give lenders a sort of stamp of approval, the ‘Government Protected Deposits’ symbol, which will hopefully allow the mutuals to raise funds.

The government will allow banks, credit unions and building societies to issue covered bonds, which are bonds that are secured (or 'covered') by a pool of assets if the bond issuer becomes insolvent. These bonds are seen as a key method for lenders to harness the huge pools of superannuation funds washing through the Australian financial system, and reduce the reliance of lenders on overseas sources of funding.

The Government clearly needed to do something to invigorate the bond market, and it has tried hard to do that. But while the extra $4 billion for the RMBS market will be immediately welcomed, it will of course be a little while before we actually see smaller lenders issuing covered bonds.

Patience is still very much required.

As Wayne Swan said when he released the Banking Package, “There is no 'Silver Bullet' that will immediately fix banking competition.” The GFC changed the sector forever. There is no way we can hope to go back to the way it was during the days of easy credit. Nor should we.

What do you think?

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Sir Ian Crisp

30/12/2010I wonder if Banking Package piece by FS/HS is as poorly researched as FS/HS’s NBN piece? Mike Quigley and Jean-Pascal Beaufret were appointed as Executive Chairman and Chief Financial Officer with the NBN. Both ‘gentlemen’ were working at Alcatel-Lucent when money was stuffed into envelopes and handed out in the form of bribes. Mr Capone must be spinning in his grave. #French-based telecom equipment giant and NBN contractor Alcatel-Lucent has agreed to pay US$137 million in fines and penalties to settle US bribery and corruption charges, alleging it paid bribes to win contracts in Latin America and Asia, officials said. http://www.zdnet.com.au/alcatel-lucent-fined-over-bribes-339308245.htm# Things that make you go Mmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Sir Ian Crisp

30/12/2010I forgot to add that Alcatel has signed an exclusive contract with NBN Co. Facts AA, facts dear boy.

Sir Ian Crisp

30/12/2010Add this to the FACT file: Alcatel-Lucent wins up to $1.5 billion NBN contract French networking hardware supplier Alcatel-Lucent has won a significant contract to supply the National Broadband Network Company with up to $1.5 billion of optical and ethernet aggregation equipment. Both NBN Co chief executive Mike Quigley and chief financial officer Jean-Pascal Beaufret have long histories with Alcatel-Lucent — Beaufret served as the company’s CFO from 1999 through 2007, and Quigley himself has a 36-year history with the company. http://delimiter.com.au/tag/jean-pascal-beaufret/

Jason

30/12/2010Sir Ian Crisp, You make a poor barrister! guilt by association isn't a crime, either something has happend here or it hasn't! And since this post is about the banking reforms as far as I know "Alcatel-Lucent" have SFA to do with anything. I guess we could ask do you still beat your partner? Your three posts belong here http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2010/12/02/They-huffed-and-they-puffed-and-they-havene28099t-blown-the-NBN-downe280a6yet.aspx But as usual missing in action

Hillbilly Skeleton

30/12/2010Sir Ian Crisp, Attempting to divert the flow of information away from my piece will not work. However, I think you also left out the part where it is widely acknowledged by both sides of politics, and the telecommunications industry generally, that Mike Quigley is one of the most pre-eminent players in the telecommunications game in the world. Anyway, to get back to banking, I'm waiting expectantly for Wikileaks to release their 'Banking Package'. As I understand it, all the toney American Tories in the Grand Old Party, with links to the Banking sector, are quivering in anticipation. :) Once that lot gets dumped it'll make any Alacatel-Lucent improprieties look like a raindrop on the windscreen of life, compared with a flood that sweeps the whole car away down river...to Sing Sing. It's gonna seem like old home week for Bernie Madoff. Also I note that you appear to have absolved those connected with the Howard government and involved in the diversion of $300 million directly to Saddam Hussein from AWB, of any censure on your part. Double standards just won't do, SIC.

Ad astra reply

30/12/2010Sir Ian Try to keep on topic - what has Alcatel-Lucent got to do with Wayne Swan's Banking Package?

2353

31/12/2010Well written F/HS. Its also interesting to note that Abbott, Hockey and co haven't received sustained media coverage (unlikely) on this subject, rather I suspect that the wind was taken out of their sails. By the same token, the ALP don't seem to have got great coverage of the issue either. Is there some animosity between the media and banks, have the Queensland floods inundated (sorry) the capability of the media over the last few weeks or so or have the collective brains of the media (term used loosely) decided that this is a good thing? The banking industry should be concerned about account number portability as it removes a large barrier to competition. Lets face it, the sheer frustration people experience when trying to change banking details with employers, utilities and so on makes it very difficult to change banks without drama. Information handouts however usually aren't read by those that need to read them in my experience. The major difficulty for the banks in this is ensuring that existing account numbers aren't duplicated - but this shouldn't mean the package needs to be watered down (despite the probably media campaign from the banks sitting on their $billion profits). When I left the banking industry (in 1995), there was already a common standard for account number formats across the Australian banking system to allow electronic interchange of funds (such as direct debits, salary payments and the like). BSB (Bank/State/Branch) numbers are only necessary because AA's Suncorp Bank account number may be duplicated by my Bendigo Bank account number. It's only in the past 10 to 15 years that Credit Unions have been accepted into the Australian payments system, proof if needed, that systems can be changed when necessary. The point on "easy credit" is also well made. Banks need to be forced back to the days were they lent only within peoples limits. As an experiment go to any bank website's loan calculator and see how much money you can borrow on your monthly income and then calculate how you would meet all your current commitments [b]as well as[/b] the new loan repayment should you decide to take the loan out. Usually - the result is scary!!!! Banks have gone from a paternalist organisation where it was considered better to "protect" the customer from financial excess to sales driven organisations in the space of 30 years. While the paternalism shown by all banks at times was just as odious as the current sales culture - there has to be a happy medium where the customers that need it are protected from themselves. In short - the sooner this starts the better. The Banks will moan and complain because compliance will cost them money, but as the beneficial holder of shares in three Australian financial institutions I'd prefer real competition in the industry rather than another couple of cents on my dividend payments (made by EFT - you can't get a cheque these days!).

2353

31/12/2010Oh - and Happy New Year all :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010It's OK, Sir Ian Crisp is just trying to poison the well of rational discourse. As per usual, as I've never seen a more indepth comment than an attempted broadside, or a 'Pox on both your houses' swipe. Which leads me to wonder what he got his knighthood for. 'Contributions to Irrelevancy'? I was just wondering about it all last night, and I just couldn't get the impression out of my mind of this old, white male, running around in some musty old bedroom in his Reg Grundies, just waiting for the latest post from 'The Political Sword' to come out, and then, in his best impersonation of an internet troll under the internet bridge, scrounging around in the dark recesses of his mind for what he believes will be the ultimate depth charge to instantly deep six the blog. Dream on, old man, dream on. Btw, it's never going to work because your attacks miss the target by a mile every time. It's what happens when your missiles have no weight to propel them.

Gravel

31/12/2010Feral Skeleton Wow you did a great precis of the banking regulations, as I have said earlier none of it affects me in any way so I have been waiting for you to clarify it. I love the video of Paul Keating. Unlike many people I expect our Treasurer to behave with dignity and respect, as Wayne Swan does. I know I am in a very small minority but hey I don't worry about things like that. 2353 Your response was equally well worth a read, I thank you too. Feral Skeleton I just skipped past sic's sick response as I could anticipate his reaction, maybe he is the opposition leaders little mole on this site. Every blog seems to have a couple that try to highjack excellent threads. I just bypass and ignore them, I think that if they don't get responses they will end up giving up if they know most people don't read them. I am sorry for you that you have to read that rubbish, next time just scroll past, I can assure you, you will feel heaps better.

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/20102353, Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply! How refreshing it was after the manic, off-topic response from SIC. You'd have to agree that with computer software being as sophisticated as it is these days, especially in the money markets, that there would be a way that account number portability, and hence the ability for account holders to take their money and 'walk down the street' to another lending institution, could be worked out to happen at the press of a computer button. If you're interested, I found a couple of negative commentaries about the Banking Package which point out some potential flaws, but which I think are slightly overexaggerated: http://www.australia.to/2010/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5138:swans-bank-package-falls-short-&catid=130:business&Itemid=178 and http://www.brokernews.com.au/people/wayne-swan/1264 However, support also came from unlikely sources: http://www.acci.asn.au/Research-and-Publications/Media-Centre/Media-Releases-and-Transcripts/Economics-Industry/Industry-Call-To-Back-Swan-s-Banking-Package---Bui Which is why, in the end, I came to the conclusion that it was 'A Curate's Egg' and not a Lemon. Oh, and 'Happy New Year' to you and yours, too! I appreciate all the contributions you have made at TPS this year. :)

Patricia WA

31/12/2010Thanks, FS, great idea at this time of year to help some of us get down to reading about serious stuff like 'banking' by giving us the story with pictures! That article by Oakes was spot on, wasn't it? I wonder why his view hasn't been picked up more often by other commentators. It's as good a story line as any that Hockey and Abbott have been feeding them on banking and the economy. Is that the [quote]'reason the leading lights of today's Labor Party seem unconvincing when they try to project toughness and determination'?[/quote] Perception may be all important in politics, but the media mold our perceptions. Individuals like PJK and Hawkie are the exceptions who prove the rule. As is our current PM. Wayne Swan is not blessed with the kind of charisma which allows Julia Gillard to somehow defy the general view of ineptness that journalists project of her government. But do we really want all our politicians to be of Tony Blair's ilk? All image and no substance. A media dominated democracy like ours is blessed when we have the two combined. Not sure that I agree with you about Costello as 'performer' though I'm not a great viewer of parliamentary debates. In media interviews he came across as a smirking, smarmy know-it-all and I was often hard put to actually listen to the substance of what he was trying to say.

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010Gravel, Thank you for your kind words. As an eternal optimist I keep reading everyone's posts in the hope that one day they may turn over a new leaf and be a bit more even-handed. It's New Years Eve, so why not live in hope. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010PatriciaWA, Don't worry, the MSM and especially that grub, Andrew Bolt, are doing their best to tarnish Julia Gillard's image. Today on Ch9 he tut-tutted about the $1 million that the federal government has already kicked into the tin for the Queensland flood victims, comparing it disfavourably to the $4 million that the federal government donated to Pacific Islands Youth Soccer. He's always angling for the put-down by comparison so much I think that he must be growing and manufacturing straw men in his backyard. He just wants to take the wind out of the sails of Labor governnments everywhere. So now when JG tours Qld today and probably kicks in more federal money that lowly worm will try to take all the credit, no doubt, for shaming her into it. However, if I could get through to him I'd be making a couple of salient points. 1) How much have you, yourself donated to the Qld Flood Appeal, Mr Bolt? 2) If the Coalition were to display their oft-paraded 'Fiscal Rectitude' and abhorrence of 'Debt & Deficit', would it not follow that they would have donated less than the ALP federal government?

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010NormanK, My heart goes out to you up there in Mid North Qld(I think that's where you are situated). If you have been flooded out I hope you are doing OK nonetheless. :)

TalkTurkey

31/12/2010Thank you Professor Skeleton for your article. Gee to think I could've been first to comment, had plenty of time, but I've been first once before (it's thrilling!) and I wanted to let poor Acerbic Conehead (who missed out on #400 and #500 last post) or 2353 or Bring Back Maxine or some other worthy have that signal honour . . . So-o-o-o considerate of me . . . and what happens, LIMPY flops into first (and second, and third) spot, with a vacuous and absolutely irrelevant series of phhtts. "Things that make you go Mmmmmmmmmmmmm", Limpy? Nope. But You are the THING that makes Us go D'URRRHHHHHH! FS I have little knowledge of high finance nor of banking, so my comments will be very thin, instead I'm very happy to read your wrap and comments from wiseheads like 2353. But as far as who manages the economy better, there's Keating saying it like it was, there was John Button revolutionising industry, here is Australia in the best economic position in the world due to Rudd and Swan and Gillard - despite the wastrel years of well-to-do welfare under Howard - so wisely and well has Labor managed an economic situation which to much of the world is an unmitigated and unending disaster. The $A as of yesterday is the world's second-best-performing currency, after, wait for it, Mongolia! - and congratulations to the Mongols say I! The Aus dollar has appreciated 13% against the Greenback in the last year. Dog, if Labor can't get re-elected on that record, then WTF do Australians want? And WTF does Labor need to do? Stinky hot in Adelaide today . . . 41? . . . 43? for the last day of 2010. Just to think, I thought he'd be Kevin '11 tomorrow. Well done anyway Kev, I'm not going to be one to kick you now. You got us into power last time, that means to me you are forever a Labor hero, and that's Something To Be. Best wishes to all Goodwillian Swordsfolk for 2011.

NormanK

31/12/2010Feral Skeleton Thanks for crawling out of your sick-bed to put this together. In colour no less. I suspect it was therapeutic but we are extremely grateful nonetheless. The title you have chosen says a great deal. No, I wasn't expecting fireworks but a good many people were after the hype which preceded its release. Ad astra and others (yourself included if memory serves me) have long advocated for the ALP to acquire better media advisors and the handling of this package of reforms is a glaring example of where they are currently being given poor service. The average punter with a mortgage would have been anticipating three things - regulation to discourage price signalling, a reduction in ATM transaction fees and the abolition of exit fees. All of the rest of the reforms discussed prior to the package's release were just a string of acronyms and self-congratulations for implementing measures which saved us from the GFC. Come the day and what did these punters get? Yes, talk of getting tough on price signalling (which is another name for price fixing, isn't it?) so no surprise and only as it should be given that no other industry is allowed to collude with its peers to set prices. Single, unspectacular star-burst. ATMs - yet another inquiry to establish whether or not current practice is fair or not. Fizzer. So, eyes glued to the TV screen, the mortgage holders waited for the announcement of when the abolition of exit fees would come into effect. Mid-2011. Oh dear. Mouths turned down a little, they could still feel the sense of anticipation as they waited for Swan to say the magic words. Many of them had already started to look forward to what this small windfall might be able to buy them. "Only to apply to new mortgages". Fizz. Fizz. Fizz. Everything Swan said after that fell on deaf ears. During his press conference, Swan tried to explain that recently implemented reforms were already dealing with "unconscionable" exit fees and that the watchdogs were on to it. He couldn't define unconscionable and anyway who cares? The press had been promising (on behalf of the government) the abolition of exit fees - no qualifications, no caveats. It took until an interview on an evening news programme for him to utter the statement that to have abolished exit fees on extant agreements would have been "unconstitutional". His hands were tied. My point is - why allow the media to run with uncontested stories of the unqualified abolition of exit fees? Why, when the expectation had so obviously been built up that exit fees were going to be done away with, did Swan not put front and centre the fact that there was nothing that he (or Hockey) could do about current mortgages? So, what might otherwise have been seen as positive, long-term measures to get the banking industry back into a more competitive and user-friendly condition have turned into duds - all spin and no delivery. Hockey scored points because his proposals caused at least one CEO to squeal and therefore they must be tougher than Swan's measures. None of the big banks came out immediately in strident opposition to Swan's package so it must be weak. Swan will be perceived as having reacted to Hockey's actions (Oakes' story not-withstanding). The fact that some industry players came out in support of the package only adds to the perception that the new measures are bank-friendly or at least lame. It is the perception war which Labor is losing and has been for quite some time. Thanks for your kind thoughts regarding the floods. I am in a district which is under a warning but there is no expectation that it will get serious here. In fact I feel a bit guilty in hindsight for my whinge about the rain. In the context of what is happening around the rest of the state, what we are experiencing is inconvenient and depressing but not anywhere near as bad as those to the south of us. My heart goes out to those who are undergoing life-changing hardship. As for Bolt and his ilk, what a scumbag. No doubt he makes no mention of the fact that local, state and federal governments are spending literally millions of dollars PER DAY to rescue people, accommodate them and alleviate hardship. The fund to which the Gillard and Bligh governments contributed $1 million each is one set up for the Red Cross to administer and into which the public can pledge contributions. It is to support folk in the immediate aftermath of the floods by providing daily necessities not as some sort of compensation fund which is what is being implied by the less than kind Mr Bolt. The damage bill will be in the billions and it will be the state and federal governments who will have to stump up for rebuilding infrastructure and repairing public amenities. On top of that there will be loss of income in the billions of dollars which will impact on all level of government and a great many communities, including my own. A natural disaster at Christmas and still some people want to make political capital out of it. Ad astra Thanks very much for 2010 and I hope 2011 is great success for you and The Political Sword. Happy New Year everyone.

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010NormanK, So good to hear from you and the fact that you are not a waterlogged rose! Your commentary here at TPS always adds the voice of reason, which I am sure we all appreciate hugely. I know I do! I, too wish you and yours the happiest of New Years! And as we forge ahead to 2011 let us just hope that 'The Sane & Rational, United, Will Never Be Defeated!' As to the substance of your comments, I believe you are correct, as is Laurie Oakes, that the ALP federal government are being outplayed in the politics of just about every situation that comes down the pike. I guess when you have brazen & ubiquitous wingmen like Andrew Bolt and Piers Ackerman and Alan Jones and Ray Hadley and Sky and The Australian and, on very many days of the year, the ABC, covering your back and providing you with lines of attack, you can be as incompetent as the Coalition and get away with it.

2353

31/12/2010Quote F/HS - [quote]I just couldn't get the impression out of my mind of this old, white male, running around in some musty old bedroom in his Reg Grundies, just waiting for the latest post from 'The Political Sword' to come out, and then, in his best impersonation of an internet troll under the internet bridge, scrounging around in the dark recesses of his mind for what he believes will be the ultimate depth charge to instantly deep six the blog.[/quote] Uuugh! What a mental picture :) Quote F/HS again - [quote]Today on Ch9 he tut-tutted about the $1 million that the federal government has already kicked into the tin for the Queensland flood victims, comparing it disfavourably to the $4 million that the federal government donated to Pacific Islands Youth Soccer. He's always angling for the put-down by comparison so much I think that he must be growing and manufacturing straw men in his backyard. He just wants to take the wind out of the sails of Labor governnments everywhere. So now when JG tours Qld today and probably kicks in more federal money that lowly worm will try to take all the credit, no doubt, for shaming her into it.[/quote] After I read this I remembered why I prefer (slightly) to watch Sunrise - it's a Bolt free zone. The usual practice is for the Feds to make a couple of contributions to disaster appeals as the full extent is assessed. I'm a South East Queenslander and know very well that the extent has only just been scratched at the moment (although personally I'm unaffected by major flooding at present). Thanks also for the links as well. The point that wasn't made is the industry average for a mortgage before payout or re-negotiation was around 7 years (again) in the mid 90's. Now that there are non-bank lenders, kiosks in shopping centres and so on, I suspect the average has reduced since then. So the major superficial criticism of the package seems to be that people are "locked" into their mortgage for 25 to 30 years and while that is true in theory, the reality is most mortgages are actually held for a significantly lesser period. I'm certain that even people who do buy a home and never move either themselves or their mortgage don't take the full allotted time to pay out the mortgage as their income would generally rise faster over time than the mortgage payment.

2353

31/12/2010Forgot to address this comment F/HS: [quote]You'd have to agree that with computer software being as sophisticated as it is these days, especially in the money markets, that there would be a way that account number portability, and hence the ability for account holders to take their money and 'walk down the street' to another lending institution, could be worked out to happen at the press of a computer button.[/quote] Of course you're correct. There is already centralisation of customers details with banks. When I worked there, you could hit a few buttons of the computer and access the "worth" of the customer (details of all their accounts and the current balances) in an instant. I can change phone providers for both my land line and mobile and keep the same number/s thanks to computers - the real problem would be setting the system up for the banking industry as some banks can have duplicated account numbers issued from two different branches in adjoining suburbs. The easiest way to do it would be on a certain date to make everyone's account numbers include the relevant BSB - so that my working account (12345678) with CBA Annerley (BSB 064-456) becomes Australian Bank Account number 064-456-12345678 which moves with me when I find out the CBA really doesn't care about me or my concerns.

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010Talk Turkey, Thank you for liking my piece! Anyway, you don't have to know much about banking or finance or the economy to be able to figure out the facts. As Keating laid it out in full economic technicolor, John Howard and the party he has created in his image, are just a bunch of Thatcherite Shopkeepers at the end of the day! Managing the nation's funds accordingly whenever they get the chance. Which is all small picture, no big picture.

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010Talk Turkey, You have my sympathy over there in your 40+ degree day. I suppose you can see how perfect the day is here in greater Sydney, and especially Malibu on the Central Coast of NSW(named because of the number of superannuated stars who live here now), wherein I reside. Not to worry, they say that we get the weather that you have eventually. :(

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/20102353, All I have to think about when I imagine the possibility of account number portability is the fact that Microsoft can give everyone in the world a unique registration number, even if it is 17 digits long, as is the case with mobile phone numbers. Everyone's different, and, as you say, there doesn't appear to be any problems with handing out the same number to others. And that's worldwide! So you'd think that little ol' Australia could set up a unique account numbering system for 22 million of us.

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010All I want for New Year is for the scales to drop from the eyes of half of the electorate when it comes to the Coalition. The half that deludes themselves that the Coalition is a competent alternative government, that is. :)

Gravel

31/12/2010Feral Skeleton I also want what you want for New Year, wouldn't it be luverly, as the song goes. Good luck with all your teenyboppers tonight.

NormanK

31/12/2010FS Today's epiphany (the last for 2010?) is that the most likely way for you to get your New Year's wish will come from something other than a policy//performance evaluation of the Coalition. That would be too much to ask for from an electorate which is half-asleep when it comes to politics. It will come as the result of a scandal - Wikileaks purports to reveal corruption by top level LNP figures as part of AWB debacle, or Andrew Robb takes the reins and tries to mumble his way to the lodge. Joe Hockey in a sex tryst with a surfer boy? Abbott's drunken night of debauchery in Kandahar? Bronnie's secret love-child? Pyne caught speeding on Ice during summer? Sad but true that this is what the Australian electorate responds to rather than good management or sound policies. Either that or, God forbid, escalating tensions on the Korean Peninsula. Or Israel bombs Iran. I will take the opportunity to echo something AA said a little while ago. Labor should stop reading polls, sack their focus groups and just get on with it. If it's good policy well-implemented, they will be rewarded at the ballot box. If it's not then what have they lost. Chasing their tails for the next three years is not going to do them or the country any good. Patricia WA I'm waiting with bated breath for a follow-up to your post from December 28. 2010 10:48 PM. [quote]Australia chose instead a godless Prime Minister. Now look what's happened![/quote] Were you serious?

TalkTurkey

31/12/2010Beware Limpy, Now that I know you're a feebleminded grammarnazi I've set about the training and unleashing of a pack of slavering gerunds for the hunting down and chastising of you for any grammatical misdoings of yours. You haven't yet apologised to Skeleton, and I haven't forgotten that. You are a disgrace, fit only for isolation far away from decent people and with Anal Jones and Bum Bolt as your only buddies.

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010I couldn't have said it better myself, and just remember the sentiments in this article the next time you hear Tony Abbott, or anyone else in the media, wittering on about supporting the notion of lowering tax: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/a-new-years-resolution-fo_b_802480.html?utm_source=DailyBrief&utm_campaign=123010&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BlogEntry&utm_term=Daily+Brief

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010Talk Turkey, Thank you for continuing to defend my honour from Sir Ian the Internet Troll. :) Even when you're hot as a sizzling sausage on the BBQ!

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010NormanK, Sadly, I fear you are right. It constantly amazes me how 'dumbed down' the electorate is fast becoming(see article above for analysis of a similar trend in the US). Of course, it suits the hollow shells who are strictly conservative politicians to make it that way and keep it that way. Just reference the apalling statistic for Year 12 Retention Rates quoted by Keating for Howard's first stint in government in the You Tube clip above. Added to which he was sneakily trying to effect the same utcome as Prime Minister. I rememeber him clearly saying once that it wasn't such a bad thing if kids didn't finish Year 12, as long as they had a job to go to. The subtext, of course, was that he liked it if they didn't get the benefit of a full 13 years of education, especially if they just ended up on building sites listening to a steady stream of agit prop from Alan Jones and Ray Hadley, or whoever their equivalents are around the rest of Australia. Insidiously, it was seeming to me, that Howard didn't mind the poor, white trash from the Public Schools of Australia not being able to get a good job. They were to be fodder for the multinational job mills on low rates of pay(see Keating again). Whereas Howard was also content to let other 2nd and 3rd World countries train the skilled workers that we needed and then poach them for the lower rungs of the Public Services ladder, like in the Emergency Depts of Public Hospitals. Also, he correctly calculated that these immigrants would feel a sense of gratitude to him for letting them in the back door, on a fast track to citizenship, the way he did. I mean, I don't know how many Indians I saw handing out How To Votes for the Coalition at the last election. Also they were behind halping Ted Baillieu gin up the censorious reaction to the bashings of Indian students in Victoria, which helped his Laura Norder campaign no end. I guess that's politics though, at the end of the day. Labor just can't seem to stoop that low.

TalkTurkey

31/12/2010FS said "Labor just can't seem to stoop that low." Friends, that is at the very core of the problems of the Left. In one of his books Hunter S Thom(p?)son was talking of his experiences with the Hells Angels, and one of the most telling points was that the Angels had/(have?) a dictum, "When an Angel hits a non-Angel, all other Angels present will also hit the non-Angel". You can see, that's gotta work! The Rotten Right has the great advantage that they will literally stop at nothing, lies and far beyond, while the very decency of the overwhelming majority of the Left makes us relent or otherwise desist before stop-at-nothing tactics. A pity, but the reverse wouldn't make sense. We are humanitarian. And it is a big problem. You can see it right here on the Sword. I TalkTurkey am the rudest of all, I'm sure I offend some of Us with what I say about some of THEM, truly sorry, but it just goes to show how very civil the rest of you are. Jason, blessedly, excepted. (I have come to the conclusion that there's no use being Mr Nice Guy with creeps like Limpy, but I still am very far short of "stopping at nothing".) But anyway that is why You Swordsfolk and all on the non-right-leaning blogosphere have to be so very clever, and outspoken, and convincing, and Out There to the rest of the community, because the enemy, (and Dog help us that's what they make themselves) will do ANYTHING they can get away with, and with the MSM the way it is that's one very big ANYTHING, to get into power and get their fangs ever deeper into the economy's jugular. Swordsfolks, sharpen your stakes and toughen your minds for the next parliamentary sittings! Here's something nicer: Look Friends tonight is the night that SBS traditionally and always plays the utterly hilarious, funniest-EVER short film "Dinner for One" starring Freddy Frinton as the Butler who has yet again to serve the elegant but aged Miss Sophy at her annual dinner party with her 4 male guests, all of whom have actually departed this mortal coil, as have long since indeed Miss Sophy and Freddy. If you have never seen this sketch, or indeed if you have, do make strenuous efforts to see it tonight at 8.40 Sydney time on SBS. DON'T DIE BEFORE YOU SEE DINNER FOR ONE! or you'll be sorry. Happy New Year y'all.

Ad astra reply

31/12/2010FS Congratulations on another thought-provoking piece, so stylishly illustrated. I believe you have put your finger on a salient issue, the style that Wayne Swan, and for that matter other ministers use to launch Labor initiatives. Wayne Swan is not an extrovert, nor is he flamboyant. His announcements are couched in moderate language, and even when he tries to be angry, as he was with the behaviour of the Big Four Banks, he doesn’t come across as angry since his words lack the cutting edge that anger requires. He is a gentle man, who takes his job seriously and who, in my opinion, does a good job. He is not prone to exaggerated talk or wild assertions. If he has a communications problem, it is in not making clear any limitations that might curtail the legislative changes he proposes. For example, as NormanK pointed out, an expectation was created, aided and abetted by the media, that exit fees would be abolished forthwith, but that measure turned out to apply only to new loans because it would have been unconstitutional to abolish them on current loans. This caveat, or at least the possibility of it, ought to have been made clear up-front. It has consistently been a problem for this Government – creating expectations that subsequently are not realized, to the disappointment of the electorate, and evoking the indignant condemnation of the media, which often compounds the problem via its misreporting. It has been argued over and again on [i]TPS[/i] that Labor needs a much more proficient media unit that can think through each issue, workshop the possible outcomes and unintended consequences, and fashion a set of clear and succinct messages that unambiguously inform the electorate, together with plausible and lucid responses to any question, silly or otherwise, that the media might ask. Tony Abbott’s team managed to construct brief, memorable and plausible catchcries; why can’t Labor? Clearly negative messages are easier to devise than positive ones, but to create positive catchcries ought not to be beyond the wit of experienced professionals. Moreover, if the electorate is looking for an Elvis, it will always be disappointed with a ‘Mr Sobersides’. Although it is highly improbable that Wayne could ever have the appeal of an Elvis, at least he should be armed with catchy statements and memorable slogans to make his points, and advised not to give assurances that might be difficult to fulfil. He did emphasize that there was no ‘silver bullet’ to improve banking competition, but that seemed not to have sunk into the electorate’s consciousness. Something more powerful and convincing was needed. The YouTube video brought back pleasant memories of the brilliant oratory of Paul Keating. We cannot hope for something similar from Wayne. Although Joe Hockey’s utterances are often devoid of much substance, he attracts attention with his flamboyant style, exaggerated language, and over-the-top claims. He is more believable to many than is Wayne Swan. He highlights what politicians can get away with, if only their bravado and self-confidence is sufficient. Another aspect of the difficulty the Government has in communicating with the public is the inherent complexity of ‘selling’ preventive efforts as against ‘curative’ actions. In medicine it is the doctor who makes the brilliant diagnosis and prescribes the definitive cure, or the surgeon who successfully removes a life-threatening lesion, who enjoy the patient’s accolades, whereas the doctor who follows a patient for years attending to lifestyle, nutrition and immunization that facilitates a long and healthy life, scarcely ever attracts the warm embrace of a grateful patient. As was said in the context of the GFC and the Government’s action that ameliorated its most severe consequences, ‘the bullet avoided’ was passed off as inconsequential, and hardly worthy of comment. Thank you again for your well-constructed piece that has evoked so much intelligent comment, with one unsurprising exception.

Ad astra reply

31/12/2010Folks Thank you all for your warm New Year messages and the generous comments you have made about [i]TPS[/i]. It is the thoughtful and perceptive comments and the delightful verse of those who blog here, as much as the original writings, that make [i]TPS[/i] such a special blog site. I look forward to your continued participation in 2011 - now almost upon us. May I wish all who contribute here a Joyous New Year and a Fulfilling, Healthy and Happy 2011.

Jason

31/12/2010Happy New Year! To all the good folk on the Political Sword may your 2011 be all you want it to be!

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010Jason, Happy New Year! Now don't you go overimbibing over there in SA just because it's hot! Looking forward to sending you those t-shirts eventually next year. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010Ad Astra, I think the problem is purely and simply around communication with the ALP. I also think that the electorate has picked up on the fact that generally most Labor Ministers in Julia's government are 'Dull but Worthy'. However I do detect a glimmer of an acknowledgement by the PM that she needs to get her best orators out into the media more often. I have noticed that Simon Crean and Craig Emerson are doing more press lately and spend more time answering Dorothy Dixers in Question Time, to good effect. Also, the electorate appears to have settled with Julia Gillard as their preferred PM, which is a relief. I think it would be most upsetting if they were showing 'Buyers' Remorse'. However, seeing her Press Conference from Bundaberg today, and her genuine warmth and humility with people that she met, whilst at one and the same time maintaining her laser-like focus on shooting down negative memes, such as the Andrew Bolt-generated one about the 'paltry' $1 million donated to the Qld. Flood Appeal, seems to suggest to me that she still has her eye fairly and squarely on the ball, and the Coalition will be given no quarter in 2011. Go Julia! Anyway, here's hoping that the government get their act together in 2011, now that the election and leadership change are out of the way, and start behaving like a focussed Progressive government that just wants to take Australia forward! :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010Ad Astra, HAPPY NEW YEAR! to you and your lovely family. Your kind encouragement has been an intellectual oasis that has allowed ny political Palm Tree to grow this year. Here's to an effective 2011 for all of us in Australia who just want to protect our egalitarian way of life.

Hillbilly Skeleton

31/12/2010Back again! Here's some sobering reading that provides some signposts that should guide us when we next hear Tony Abbott euphemistically describe the changes he wants to make to Social Security: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/29/the-poorhouse-aunt-winnie_n_802338.html?page=1

Ad astra reply

1/01/2011FS Thank you for your warm New Year greetings. I hope your teenage party was an enjoyable occasion last evening. We had a quiet time with some of the family, culminating with viewing the spectacular fireworks in Sydney and Melbourne on TV. Now for 2011 as those of us who value our egalitarian lifestyle advocate for its continuation against the Glenn Beck-style forces (as described in the Huffington Post piece) that would take us back to a harsh era of survival of the strong and oppression of the weak. We have a small voice that we will continue to use as we move into another year. I look forward to your always-thoughtful contributions in 2011 as your ‘political Palm Tree’ continues to flourish.

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/01/2011Ad Astra, Thank you for your warm salutations. I survived the Teenyboppers onslaught without too much of sanity lost and only a few empty cans to clean up this morning. They didn't even invade the house, preferring instead to congregate on rugs and pillows I had scattered on the lawn, or in the double garage where I have an old couch and chairs. Then at about 11.30pm they all trooped off to watch the Sydney Fireworks from the Lookout down the road, and then off to spend the night sleeping at someone else's house! QED! I then watched the Sydney Fireworks from the comfort of my loungeroom with my eldest son, and we were both tucked up snugly in bed by 12.30am. The weather being perfect helped a great deal last night. So now it's onwards and upwards into the New Year. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/01/2011What a good motto: 'Courage is contagious' It's the Wikileaks motto.

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/01/2011Here's an interesting little article: http://www.smh.com.au/national/rudd-the-readjusted-plays-cool-comeback-kid-to-adoring-crowd-20101231-19bzv.html However, if I were Kevin Rudd I'd keep my ambitions set squarely on keeping my party in office.

TalkTurkey

1/01/2011HNY All! One decade ago exactly was when Howard, stupid as well as nasty, reckoned the New Millennium began. It began of course on 1/1/2000. But the mugs reckoned there was no Year Dot, and that meant that nothing happened until Year One. Mugs, like I say. Their mistake was in talking about Year One - a cardinal number, see -instead of the First Year, numbering ordinally. So Year One, if you want to call it that, was at the END of Year the First, and there is of course no discontinuity. So when 2000 came up, 2000 years had passed since, er, er, well WTF's it matter anyway, as long as 2000 means 2000 like on your new car's odometer. Expect Howard to understand that? What difference does it make? Well it meant at the least that we were out of synch with all the nations who celebrated the NM a year earlier, and it means that there's some clown yesterday talking about the second decade of the twenty-first century being today. And it also means they can't think straight, those that think that way. Sorry if you agreed with Howard - You're wrong, as you may see by puzzling very hard over the difference between "Year 1 AD" and "the First Year AD". Anyway here's a little ditty I wrote back then protesting the stupidity of Aussies for letting stupid Howard make us a laughing stock. (No pun intended, but let it stand.) [To the tune of The Drover's Dream, if you like.] Two Thousand and . . . and . . . ? . . What ? Where Australia's sun is hot, a Pom, a Paddy, and a Scot All try out for a job as Jackaroo, And the Aussie Station Bloke makes them count, half as a joke, Two thousand sheep, to see how they will do. 'Course, it takes them quite a while, counting jumbucks by the mile: What with dust and heat and flies it's far from fun; Two blokes count "Two-Oh-Oh-Oh!" - Paddy yells "NO - NO - NO - NO! I swear, begorrah, there's Two-Oh-Oh-ONE!" So the Aussie Station Bloke, (for whom it's gone beyond a joke), Crossly does a recount of them all, and then, When their counts still fail to tally, turns the sheep loose in the Mallee, Hires the Irish guy, and fires the other men. Then says Paddy, "Dat was weird! - Seems for dem, one disappeared! Moight be Leprechauns enchanted dem - loike Elves!" Aussie Bloke snorts, "Nahh, they're mugs! And they're prob'ly both on drugs! Them dopey dorks forgot to count themselves!"

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/01/2011Happy New Year Talk Turkey! It's good to see that you have survived the SA heatwave intact.

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/01/2011It looks like there is going to be a Full Court Press from News VeryLtd in 2011 to shoehorn Tony Abbott into the PM's job: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/seven-steps-to-pave-way-for-abbott-pm/story-e6frg6zo-1225979614655

Acerbic Conehead

1/01/2011Thanks FS, for your very interesting and insightful article and follow-up comments. Couldn't believe the trolling at the beginning of the comments section, however. A very Happy New Year to you and your family. A very Happy New Year to AA and his family also, and to all TPS readers and contributors. May 2011 be a great one. I scrubbed up pretty well this morning, considering...but I think I'll head back to the kip for another few hour's rehabilitation. C ya!

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/01/2011AcerbicC, And a joyous and fun-filled New Year to you and yours. :) Here's hoping your political rib-ticklers remained joined at the hip to your Funny Bone in 2011. They are truly a joy to wondrously behold. That's one thing that the constant verbal diarrhoea emanating from the Right cannot innoculate themselves against, laughter. It has always been the best medicine to rid the body politic of po-faced infective political pond scum that seeks to poison the political well.

Gravel

1/01/2011Feral Skeleton Thank you for those links, makes for very depressing reading. It makes me wonder about the future. Happy New Year Everyone Hope it all comes good for everyone.

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/01/2011Gravel, Sorry to bring you down with the link to the appalling conservative trend back towards heartlessness wrt the indigent and down on their luck emanating from the US. My only motivation was to make sure we here in Australia are aware of what talking points will probably be coming down the pike in our country, joined at the hip the way the Arch Conservatives here in Australia and in the US undoubtedly are. I have mentioned the ties that bind them in a previous blog, it is called the IDU, The International Democratic Union, an Orwellian misnomer if ever there was one. It just pays to be forewarned and forearmed against this draconian tripe. :)

jj

1/01/2011I agree pretty well that the bank reform legislation proposed by Swan is fairly modest and there are a few things which may help to improve competition, but as the old man says, "Banks have always been bastards and forever will be." On the issue of Wayne Swan and his lack of flare or passion i think it is quite a problem. He is dull and boring in his press conferences and even a bit snarly on occasions. He seems like he would make a decent treasury secretary, but when it actually comes to selling his government's message he is hopeless! But who would replace him? Shorten is just as hopeless in question time, and when selling a message to the media. Peter Costello not only had a good sense of humor and a flare that got him well known and listened to but he also had a aura of wisdom to him. Sure he had a bit of a smirk but the Australian public trusted him and believed almost everything he said. Whether you loved him or hated him, whether it is true or not, he will/has gone down as one of if not the greatest treasurer of Australia; something Wayne Swan will never achieve. Happy New-year!

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/01/2011jj, Happy New Year to you and yours as well! Let's hope we can continue to civilly debate the issues from both angles in the year ahead. I must admit that I find your take on Peter Costello interesting. Stating that you knew that not everything he said was believable by the electorate but because of his good sense of humour and flare he was thus trusted by the electorate, despite evidence in the public domain which suggested he could never say, "No" to John Howard's profligate spending ideas, or have the guts to challenge his leader when he lost the plot, is devotion to the conservative world-view taken to a rose-coloured glasses extent.

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/01/2011jj, Might I also add that if you had espied a Labor Treasurer not being entirely honest with the electorate, whether done with wit, humour and flair or not, you would be totally up in arms about it. Which goes to one of the points I was wishing to make. That is, that the politicians from the conservative political forces can get away with so much more on indulgence from the electorate. I believe that a quiescant media basically doesn't hold them to account and get up in arms about their political failings, nor expend the same amount of energy decrying their mistakes, missteps and 'misspeaking' compared with that that they summon up to denounce any little thing the ALP does wrong in their estimation. Such as the BER, which wasn't even a failure by any honest estimation, it was still and still is howled about up hill and down dale as if there was some substance to the criticism. Even after 2 reports giving it a 97.6% success rate.

Ad astra reply

1/01/2011FS, Gravel As there is little of contemporary interest for political journalists to pontificate about, we can expect a spate of PvO-type articles that look forward or look back, and which always attempt to predict. Past form suggests than the predictions of most political journalists will be as reliable as economists’ predictions of interest rate rises. The latter persist, even today, attempting to foretell interest rates throughout 2011. Past errors fail to shame them into silence. Those attempting political predictions are similarly shameless, confident in the belief that even their grossest miscalculations will not evoke censure by their colleagues or even be noticed by the electorate. The only way they could be brought to account would be by a process of systematically filing their utterances, and quoting them back at them when yet again they have been shown to be wrong. It will be interesting to review the PvO piece in six months to assess how close to the mark his suggestions and predictions are. For the time being let’s categorize such pieces as noise.

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/01/2011If you'd like to read a precise and concise documentation of the way that Rupert Murdoch's media empire functions as an avowed advocate for conservative politicians, then you should read this, it's horrifying to see it laid out so clinically: http://mediamatters.org/research/201012210005

BSA Bob

1/01/2011We may be privileged to be witnessing the birth of another anti-ALP beatup from the fourth estate. Channel 10 reported straight facedly tonight that Mr Abbott will shortly be making a journey to the Queensland floods to-get this- make sure the ALP is keeping its promises. It will be interesting to see if his own history is brought up at all, or whether he's allowed to exist in his "perpetual present" where only opponents are held to account. If there's more action man footage I shall be ill.

Ad astra reply

2/01/2011FS What a frightening catalogue of conservative tactics Media Matters records. Glenn Beck features prominently, but so do many lesser lights riding the conservative bandwagon. Fox News in the US is quite shameless in its campaign to promote the conservative cause and bring down Obama and his democrat fellow travellers. Truth is irrelevant; wild assertions that cannot be confirmed are its stock in trade in the knowledge that the memory of an assertion once made cannot be erased, even after refutation. ‘Obama is a Muslim’ is a classic example; 40% of Americans still believe that. It would not be quite so dangerous to the fabric of our society if the false assertions were simply occasional accidents, quickly corrected, but we know from MM that they are deliberate and part of a well constructed strategy.

Ad astra reply

2/01/2011BSA Bob Welcome to [i]TPS[/i] in 2011. Do come back. Making ‘sure the ALP is keeping its promises’ is a Tony Abbott mantra: he says repeatedly he will ‘ferociously hold the Government to account’. His assumption is always that the Government will default as he asserts it did over the HIP and the BER despite a satisfaction rate of over 97% with the latter, according to two reports. He has had good mileage from this approach, and I suppose hopes for more. But as Peter van Onselen insists in his recent article, and as many others have said, he will have to develop some positive policies if he is to have any chance of prime ministership. It is over twelve months since he became leader, yet are still waiting.

jj

2/01/2011I have a great link here for you all. I know it is old, but hey it is really quite funny. To think Kristina Keneally actually took time out of her day to pose in ways that portrayed her as angry! lol. http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/kristina-keneally-is-angry-really-really-angry-ok/

jj

2/01/2011HS, I dont know where it was in my little piece earlier that you managed to pick out where i said Peter Costello lied? All i was saying way that his demeanor allowed the Australian people to believe in him, and sure, sometimes he may not have really believed in what he was doing, but he still managed to convey a message of belief anyway. Wayne Swan is a boring, repetitive, grumpy sort of a politician; he doesnt stand out the way a treasurer should. But the Labor party is stuck for much economic talent so i suppose he is all they have got (just imagine Arbib as treasurer!).

Jason

2/01/2011(just imagine Arbib as treasurer!). Or Andrew Robb for that matter!

Ad astra reply

2/01/2011Folks Just testing the site.

Ad astra reply

2/01/2011Rx I tried to reply to your email but it was returned by the remote mail server. The message I sent was: [i]Thank you for your email alerting me to the problem you have had with TPS. I"ve had trouble with the site this morning with it throwing error messages. But I've just tried it out now using reCaptcha and it worked. You may care to try again, and if it's still playing up, please let me know. My IT son-in-law tells me this morning that BlogEngine.2 has now been released, so we will upgrade to that and hopefully many of the problems we have had will disappear. And a Happy New Year to you too. Thank you for your always-sensible contributions, and your always-supportive remarks.[/i]

Hillbilly Skeleton

2/01/2011Jason, Andrew Robb and Joe Hockey loathe each other, so they say. So do Julie Bishop and Ian Macfarlane. Good on him. It shows he still has some good sense left with which to make considered decisions. Which I knew anyway after he was made Turnbull's Climate Change negotiator with Penny Wong. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

2/01/2011jj, I guess it was this bit: '...but the Australian public trusted him and believed almost everything he said.' to which I extrapolated...especially when he told them porkies about the Labor Party's economic mismanagement of the economy, after the 1996 election, when in fact it was left in a sound position, however was made to seem worse than it was after Costello changed the Budget accounting rules to Accrual Accounting. Plus he kept harping on about his 'Debt & Deficit' fetish and the need for Surpluses as a disingenuous way to tighten spending on Public Infrastructure. So you're right about people trusting him and believing almost everything he said, but I contend it was for the wrong reasons.

Rx

2/01/2011Wow, isn't it always the way. As soon as you 'complain' about something not working it seems to right itself at the next attempt. Thanks, Ad, for the rapid response to my email. While here I'd like to wish Happy New Year to all Swordsfolk of good will. Your contributions and insight are always appreciated by this oft-lurker. jj, there's a reason Paul Keating coined the phrase "All tip, no iceberg" to describe Peter Costello. The latter is the original hollow man - all mouth (and often unconvincing) and little substance.

Hillbilly Skeleton

2/01/2011BSA Bob, Hello and thank you for your comment! I, too nearly choked on Weeties when I saw the reporting of Tony Abbott's grand tour of Queensland next week being breathlessly reported by the media as if he was the Prime Minister. The Australian even had a banner headline on their website, 'Tony Abbott to tour Queensland Next Week'. Of course there was no similar anticipatory headline for the real Prime Minister, only the ABC reporter on the ground at her Press Conference peppering her with regurgitated Andrew Bolt talking points about the inadequacy of a federal government $1 million donation to the Qld. Premier's Flood Appeal. To which the real PM calmly replied that that was on top of the hundreds of millions of $ that will be coming through the normal channels in such circumstances. Even Tony Abbott had to concede the response by the federal government had been appropriate. How kind of him.

Rx

2/01/2011[i]Even Tony Abbott had to concede the response by the federal government had been appropriate. How kind of him.[/i] I wonder how this character reconciles natural disasters being considered "acts of God" (so who are we mortals to complain?) and the State (which according to right wing dogma) should keep out of people's lives, providing "welfare" to the victims of God's will. Good dose of doublethink in play, I'd imagine.

Jason

2/01/2011Rx, Why is there never a lion around when this moron speaks? Pell your church done so much damage to me and others where was your loud voice then you F r! http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/pell-rebukes-catholic-mps/story-e6frea6u-1225980156900

jj

2/01/2011Jason, I would take Robb over Wayne Swan any day. Robb seems more personable, and his experience as an agri economist and statistician would serve him well as treasurer. Remember Wayne was the one who opposed the ETS and then dumped Kevin Rudd as leader because of the fallout from his decision (Gillard was also the other political master mind behind that decision).

Jason

2/01/2011jj, What you say about his resume whilst true, you wouldn't have him in the change room to give the half time address, I think it would be a safe bet life after politics for Robb wont be as a motavational speaker! He is just plain boring to listen to, I tried to imagine New years eve with him, one thing came to mind he's as funny as a corpse!

Patricia WA

2/01/2011Jason, not sure if I've sent this to TPS before, but your latest comment reminded me of how I feel whenever I see or hear Andrew Robb. Couldn't resist the opportunity of backing your opinion. God forgive me, because I know he suffers/ed? from depression. I think his health would improve vastly if he left politics altogether. It would give us something to smile about too. I first wrote it when the Liberal leadership issue was headlines, but his mood doesn't seem to have lifted since then. [quote]When I think of Andrew Robb I want to cry, suppress a sob. He always looks so very sad. I see now why he feels so bad, Out of sorts and feeling blue, Having to choose between those two. Caught twixt Machismo and Narcism? Either way he’s stuck with Masochism. [/quote]

Hillbilly Skeleton

2/01/2011jj, How could you possibly prefer the economic team that was prepared to conceal from the electorate the true nature of the Costings of their policies to the alternative who had all their policies Treasury costed and still have the Budget on track to be back in Surplus, for the Surplus fetishists, by 2012/13? There's no way that the Robb/Hockey Budget would have been back in Surplus as quickly without some heavy-handed cuts to programs to pay for it. Which is the Coalition way, I guess but never very equitable because they always cut programs that the ALP targets towards the most needy in our society. One example would be 'The Affordable Housing for Life Project' being rolled out in conjunction with the Marist Youth Centre, which is taking Youth off the streets and teaching them a Trade and employing them to build the homes that they will eventually get to live in. Also I noted that the Coalition would have slashed the Tertiary Scholarship program for children from needy families, and no doubt would also have rolled back the goal that Julia Gillard has of getting 40% of our own, home-grown children a Tertiary qualification. Whether their families can afford the fees or not. If that's not a worthwhile outlay of taxpayers' money, I don't know what is. Not to mention the massive increase in Trades Training that the federal government is paying for, and the infrastructure in our High Schools around the country to accomodate it. Knowledge is power, as they say, and a well-educated populace makes for a powerful nation. In comparison the Coalition only believes in Further Education for the Economic Elite, or big bills that put the poorer children behind the financial 8 ball.

jj

2/01/2011HS, Under the worst case forcasts done by treasury the Coalition would have added $4 billion to the budget bottom line and returned the budget to a greater surplus. I also recall Kevin Rudd not putting in any costings until election eve, but he was just lucky that there was no hung parliament to catch him out. As for all of you that say Robb is a boring character i believe that he is a genuine Aussie bloke. He seems like a down to earth guy that you would be able to have a conversation with on all of the major New Years topics. Talking of boring characters, could you imagine what New Years Eve would be like with Simon Crean, or Kevin Rudd for that matter.

Jason

2/01/2011jj, They (the Press) don't call him Mr moggadon for nothing! Well when you get back to liberal HQ send him to Adelaide for Australia day with me and my bogan mates we'll put it to the test!

Hillbilly Skeleton

2/01/2011jj, Yup, that Kevin Rudd, you wouldn't want to spend time with him. Unlike 3000 other Australians recently: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/confidential/sexy-kevin-rudd-talks-pants-off-festival/story-e6frf96x-1225979700291 Might I also add that I knoe personally that Simon Crean is a warm and gregarious man.

Jason

2/01/2011FS, jj is right! when your from a party full of boring dead shits, Robb is probably funny! Just cast your mind back to the recent Titanic movie where the tories in first class were as stiff as boards, but down in working class thats where the fun was.

2353

2/01/2011So why are we comparing Robb and Swan anyway? Hockey is the "alternate" Treasurer. Surely you remember him JJ - the bloke with the billions of dollars worth of black holes costed by Accountants who were commissioned to not check the fundamentals of the election policies.. Oh that's why you're talking about Robb - he's the one that was wheeled out to explain away that (and other Hockey/Abbott) messes.

Jason

2/01/20112353, Touche! but jj tried distracting us with this "(just imagine Arbib as treasurer!). and I said "or Robb for that matter"! Now jj is trying make frankenstein's monster human with a sense of humor and his ability to mix with the working class!

Hillbilly Skeleton

2/01/2011What I find amazing is that anyone who comes here professing support for the Coalition and their economic team always remembers to forget the $11.6 Billion Black Hole. As if they are allowed to make 'mistakes' like that. However, were Labor to try a similar stunt they would become part of the uproar that would then follow Labor up hill and down dale.

Jason

2/01/2011HS, but you know that the coalition have all those small business people in their ranks! I was just amazed that some of the countries biggest law firms were classed as "small business", where as we of the left only have "UNION BOSSES" in our ranks!

Hillbilly Skeleton

2/01/2011Jason, Union Bosses and Apparatchiks. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

2/01/2011The funniest mote the conservatives have in their own eye is the one that allows them to say it's OK to have representatives of 'Professional Associations' such as the AMA and ACCI in their ranks, but representatives of the workers, such as 'Union Bosses' are a No No. :) Aren't they, at the end of the day, just one and the same thing?

TalkTurkey

2/01/2011We're too bloody soft, that's our problem. No killer instinct. As I said t'other day, those on the Left almost by definition stop short of Whatever It Takes, even though those shocking words are attributed to Richo. (Well perhaps not 'even though', perhaps more like 'after all'. Richo wasn't exactly a rabid Socialist.) But Labor pollies could surely use some Essence of Richardson. There, though, we're sort of stymied. Essential humanity, which I see as pretty much the basis of socialism, demands that we be Good Samaritans, but essential humanity also involves other stuff, including self-interest and cross-pressures and one's own mental state including courage levels, and failure-induced apathy, and wisdom at the time, and suchlike considerations. It's not as easy being perfect in all dealings with others as Jesus would have you believe. But one place we are all together, all the people I reckon have made it to full humanity, is that we don't really enjoy the sight of deep suffering in others, and it seems to me poor old Andrew Robb provides a stark exemplar of this. In my big pome The Maid At Yarralumla, on The Sword back on October 12 in comments on the post "Grog Do Come Back, We Need You" I called him just that, a bit as a put-down, but rather more of the Coalition than of Robb himself. That stanza went: There were Liberals like Joe Hockey, a fat and lazy blob, Who had fallen at the first jump when he’d tried, Malcolm Turnbull, once-and-wanna-be, and poor old Andrew Robb While Phony Tony Abbott ran and lied. There was an effete mincing poodle, known as Whining Chrissie Pyne, Creepy Kevin Andrews, washed-out Warren Entsch; Token female Julie Bishop, who thinks plagiarism fine; That about exhausts the Liberals’ front bench. You may as well believe me, of Robb I spoke more in genuine sympathy, and there's empathy in there too, with a bloke who is dogged by the so-called Black Dog. I don't like him, I despise his party and most of his associates, I don't think he's fit, in more ways than one, to be an MHR; yet there is a sort of dignity that comes with his obviously-genuine mental suffering which unavoidably triggers in me a certain respect, such that I would never kick him while he was 'down'. Well not very hard anyway, not mercilessly. That is the line where I think the Left defines itself. The Rotten Right is really different. I saw their glee at Don Dunstan's demise, even to the grave, they are NOT humanitarian ( = they are bloody evil ( * )s.) And basically they are birds of the same feather. I don't really think there is so much real nastiness in Robb, anguish tends to burn humility into people. Exactly paralleling my own feelings, and supporting my own belief in the essential humanity of the Left, are Patricia WA's words at 4.33 PM today. She said "God (sic!) forgive me, because I know he suffers/ed? from depression. I think his health would improve vastly if he left politics altogether. It would give us something to smile about too. . . . When I think of Andrew Robb I want to cry, suppress a sob. He always looks so very sad." I would hope, and I do believe, that Labor voters, Greens too, Indies too, and perhaps a few coalition persons I know not, would share this sincere softness for political opponents, at least ones in seriously-unhappy personal circumstances. I emphasise "seriously", because I do love that delicious feeling called chadenfreude in less-than-extreme cases where I am on the winning end. But I don't wish real evil on anybody really, though I have fantasies about, like, Jo Bjelke-Petersen, for example. I could certainly find it in my heart to forgive Andrew Robb for running with the pack he has chosen as his friends, IF he were to distance himself from them and take up bowls, or herpetology, or ballroom dancing, or deepsea diving. (The same goes for nearly everyone, indeed. My pool of forgiveness surprises me by its depth and refillience.) But some, I must say, I would want to see a proper and sincere apology from, for things they've said or done, - Abbortt is at the nasty end of that lot, and so is Limpy imo - and then there's the really rotten few, Howard, Reith, Andrews, that sort, unforgivable beyond the reach of apology, and against whom I would love to see charges preferred - but let me say swiftly, that is my opinion, not the opinion of this station. This period feels to me like a time to take off our armour, steel-wool and elbow-grease and oil it, practise swordplay and stay disciplined and ready to take on any challenge the MSM will throw at us. BSA Bob, good to read your little post, Abbortt makes me sick too. Oh yes jj what a funny little mind you must have! "As for all of you that say Robb is a boring character i believe that he is a genuine Aussie bloke." So . . . there are ungenuine Aussie blokes? Genuine Un-Aussie blokes? Ungenuine Un-Aussie blokes? and you know how to pick 'em eh? Happy New Year anyway jj. At least you don't seem quite as horrid as you have pretended yourself to be in the past. There are many on this site who would like to have reason to count you friend.

Jason

2/01/2011HS, I wonder how many of the working class still live or have a business where Jack Mundy (BLF) and his green bans saved some of Sydney's most hisorical areas?

Ad astra reply

3/01/2011Folks Thank you for continuing the dialogue at this holiday time. I have been enjoying time with two of our children and a delightful grandson just ten months old on New Year’s Day that takes up most of each happy day. Each morning I rise ahead of the others to read what you have said. Andrew Robb is an example of one who on the one hand evokes empathy because of the Black Dog that has haunted him all his life, and admiration for his determination to continue to serve despite it. Depression can be appreciated best by those afflicted by it; those of us not so affected may never know how disabling it is. On the other hand it is hard to excuse Robb’s handling of his portfolio and particularly the deception and even frank dishonesty that marked his approach to both the Government’s election costings and those of the Coalition, which latter were characterized by refusal to submit to Treasury costings, the use of Coalition-friendly accountants to carry out what was wrongly labelled as an audit but which took the assumptions for granted, and which resulted in an $11 billion so-called ‘black hole’, which Robb tried blithely to explain away. Much of the Murdoch Press bought his story; competent economists didn’t. Anyway, that’s past history and I mention it only to illustrate the point that while one can empathize, even sympathise with an individual because of an affliction, one can be critical of that person’s professional behaviour. I believe that is how many regard Andrew Robb. TT, your thoughtful contribution raises the issue of how we ought to regard politicians, and how their personal characteristics and behaviour influence what they do and condition our opinions of them. Andrew Robb and Tony Abbott provide a contrast. While many can entertain ambivalent feelings towards Robb as expressed above, it is more difficult to do so with Abbott, whose background, past history and contemporary behaviour paint a picture of a nasty and at times vicious man, prone to lie when it suits him and ready to deceive the electorate with his catchy slogans that promise so much but which he has no capacity or intention to carry out. In this way Robb and Abbott are different; we ought to make this clear when we express our views of them. As we ‘swords-people’ approach the new blogging season there is a case for dissecting the person from the issue, and as TT has suggested, polish our weapons and armour and be ready to put to the sword unfair and inappropriate policies, statements, actions and political behaviour emanating from politicians and the reporting of them in the media, while respecting the individual where that is proper. But just as crucially we ought to be ready to put personal attributes and behaviour to the sword when they affect the way the individual approaches governance issues, as has been the case so flagrantly with Tony Abbott, and threatens to be so in the future.

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/01/2011Along with Murdoch giving carte blanche to his American media enterprises to demolish and destroy the Democratic Party, over here in Australia we have the Ltd News Corp running a parallel track to demolish and destroy any potential for successful implementation of ALP programs, plus their enfeebled attempt to delegitamise The Greens: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/prude-and-coquette-come-to-the-party/story-e6frg6zo-1225980653710 As per usual, any attempt for a contrary opinion or comment, despite the appearance of an opportunity to do so, is stymied. I have, over the last couple of days, tried to submit a comment to both the Peter Van Onselen piece, and to this load of claptrap from David Burchell. The sound of crickets chirping is all I get in reply. It is also my opinion that The Australian will not disappear behind a Paywall this year. They are both too gutless to lose the sort of influence they peddle for free now, and they know that it would be spectacularly unsuccessful. My prediction is that they will try and suck iPad, iPhone and maybe other smartphone users in only, but the web access will still be free, so that they may continue to seek to set the political agenda. And to push Tony Abbott's barrow for him. The equivalent, in a political sense, of trying to make Brussell Sprouts tasty.

jj

3/01/2011AA, You may believe that Abbott is a nasty liar but many in the community like him because they feel as though he believes what he says. If you want to know who the greatest liars are in politics it is Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard. Kevin Rudd who is/was hated by almost all of his colleagues was a brash, abusive and nasty man towards his staff and others. He lied about being an economic conservative, he lied about understanding the issues faced by the insulation installation companies when he shut down the program. Julia Gillard is just as bad as Kevin: she lied about sorting out the mining tax issue, she lied about never considering the implementation of a carbon tax if she won government etc etc. Tell me AA what is so nasty about Abbott? Jason, Cut it with the class crap! The Liberal party and the National Party are made up of people from all backgrounds and beginnings. You may be proud of the thug-like past of the union movement, well, that is your problem!

Rx

3/01/2011Speaking of thug-like ... Phillip Coorey, Sydney Morning Herald, 30 August 2010: [i]... {21 June 2000} Six MPs ... were thrown out. So was Abbott, making him the first minister in 40 years to be ejected. He had to be escorted from the chamber after bounding towards the Labor benches to thump a heckling backbencher.[/i] http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/kind-and-gentle-no-more-than-words-20100829-13xjs.html jj, You may be proud of the thug-like past of Abbott, well, that is your problem!

jj

3/01/2011RX, Oh yes, very thuggish behavior that. Oh well at least he doesnt make a living out of it.

Rx

3/01/2011Don't make excuses for Abbott, or tell lies about others "making a living" from thuggery. Abbott is a thug, and you know it. [i]Tell me AA what is so nasty about Abbott?[/i] Are you for real?

jj

3/01/2011RX, Yes, come on, tell me what is so nasty about Abbott. Everyone that meets him says he is a warm and personable man.

jj

3/01/2011HS, The greens need to be kept accountable. They are an extreme party just as the One Nation party was, just because they are on the left you seem to want to give them a go.

Rx

3/01/2011Abbott was known as Howard's attack dog and headkicker. Think about those terms for a moment, jj. Let the words roll off your tongue a few times ... [i]Attack ... dog... Headkicker ... Attack .... dog[/i]. You're asking [b]"what's so nasty"[/b] about him. That's simply a bald-faced attempt to whitewash a headkicking Rottweiler into someone warm and cuddly. It's indulging in audacious spin. Beware audacious spin in defence of, or advocating for, political extremes/extremists. When fervently pursued it can lead to diabolical situations.

2353

3/01/2011There is a long history of Politicians being, in JJ's words, "a warm and personable (wo/)man." Churchill, Obhama, Bush (both of them) and even Stalin have been described in similar terms. Politics is about marketing. If you come across to those you meet "one on one" as a idiot, you won't get far - even if (as in the case of Stalin and Bush the younger) you imprison people in inhumane conditions and sanction torture behind people's backs.

Ad astra reply

3/01/2011jj Let’s take your argument seriatim; You say [i]”…many in the community like him because they feel as though he believes what he says”[/i]. So how does FEELING as though he believes what he says make him an honest man? He himself has said that you can’t believe everything he says, only what’s scripted, and even then he changes tack. While many of the things you say about Kevin Rudd may be true, you are drawing a long bow when you say he that he LIED about being an economic conservative and when he said he understood the problems in the insulation program. Demonstrate to us that he was really not an economic conservative but deliberately pretended to be one. Demonstrate how you can conclude that because he closed the HIP he lied about understanding the problems with it. There is no logic there. You say Julia Gillard lied when she said she would sort out the mining tax – hasn’t she done that – not to your satisfaction or many others, but she tried, she did what she said she would do and the process is ongoing. Again where’s your logic. The carbon tax issue is different. Pre-election she indicated she had no plan for it, but post-election circumstances changed. Marius Kloppers asked for one, the Greens pressed for it and some of the independents indicated their support. An old rule I learned at school was ‘Circumstances change things’, and they do. If every politician were bound to every position they once took, there would never be any progress. To change is not to live a lie. Finally, you ask what is so nasty about Abbott. If you can’t answer your own question, I’m not sure I can help you much. What about his sneering condemnation of virtually everything Julia Gillard, Wayne Swan and the Government says or does. Nothing is ever good, ever right. It is all bad, all wrong, all incompetent, all hopeless; the worst government in Australian history. Even the efforts Gillard makes at flood relief are not applauded; instead he threatens to be on the job ‘making sure she keeps her promises’. The only compliment I have heard him pay her was in the House when he acknowledged she was a formidable competitor and had won the post-election negotiations. What we see of him publically is uncharitable and mean. I call that nasty.

Acerbic Conehead

3/01/2011JJ: "Yes, come on, tell me what is so nasty about Abbott." Treatment of Bernie Banton Accusing government ministers of industrial manslaughter Involvement with "Australians for Honest Politics" Telling Wilkie he was prepared to double the refugee intake, whilst continuing to demonise vulnerable people Condoning, by omission at least, the calling of the PM, a "back alley bitch" You can’t turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse.

jj

3/01/2011AA, What Tony is supposed to clap his hands and proclaim what a wonderful job Julia has been doing in going to Queensland and doing her job? What has been so special about her trip? How is criticizing the government being nasty? I recall him saying nice things about her when there was an Australia Story about her, but it is not his job to do so, his job is to win back government for the Coalition. You say on the issue of Gillard doing a back flip on a carbon tax was ok because of a change in conditions, what a damn right hypocrite you are. I seem to recall you barking about how Tony Abbot had had two majorly different positions on an ETS and how that showed his shallowness and weakness. You didnt give Abbott the excuse of changing circumstances (nothing happened in Copenhagen!) but of course, the Liberal party, same rules dont apply. RX, Oh yes just splutter out the slogan and dont bother about what is truly behind it. Margaret Thatcher was given the title The Iron Lady, but that didnt necessarily mean that she had no social conscious. Just look at what he has done since taking over the Liberal Party, he has unified a divided party to the point that they were able to turn certain defeat earlier in the year to an election victory by the end. All his colleagues have nothing but nice words to say about him (more than could be said for Krudd) and he continues to rebuild the Liberal brand. You see RX you cant just spit out stuff and expect people to swallow it.

Rx

3/01/2011Chances are, anyone who's knocked around political forums for a time has taken the 'Political Compass' test. For the uninitiated, it's a multiple-choice quiz, the results of which may serve as an indicator to where one is positioned in the political/philosophical scheme of things. For those who haven't done the test, try it, it can be quite instructive. http://www.politicalcompass.org/ The Political Compass also has a section where they plot the positioning of the major Australian parties. Here's the link: http://www.politicalcompass.org/aus2010 Checking the Compass you will observe that the most extreme party - by which I define as the party furthest from the 'centre' - is the Liberal Party. Compare the distance from the centre the Liberal and Green Parties are, relative to each other. A comparison which does make the following assertion from [b]jj[/b] interesting: [i]The greens ... are an extreme party[/i]

nasking

3/01/2011Excellent post Feral, highly informative...the pics really brightened it up. I certainly prefer 'Mr Sobersides' over Swan's earlier 'Nervous Nelly' moments. However, I do think he uses his wit as a sabre occasionally...and hits the mark. Tho he can be a bit "hit & miss". I reckon when ya take into account the economic & corporate & media & leadership cyclones he's had to navigate, it's a wonder he finds time for wit, smiles & mirth. Frankly, I feel pretty secure under Swan's guidance. "Wrecking ball" Hockey woulda wreaked havoc. His amateur approach more suited to a third world dictatorship. N'

Rx

3/01/2011[i]Oh yes just splutter out the slogan and dont bother about what is truly behind it. Margaret Thatcher was given the title The Iron Lady, but that didnt necessarily mean that she had no social conscious. Just look at what he has done since taking over the Liberal Party, he has unified a divided party to the point that they were able to turn certain defeat earlier in the year to an election victory by the end. All his colleagues have nothing but nice words to say about him (more than could be said for Krudd) and he continues to rebuild the Liberal brand.[/i] None of that makes him a "non-nasty" person. And it is not true that all his colleagues have "nothing but nice words to say" about him. You should know by now, if you've followed politics to any extent, that political parties are native hotbeds of interpersonal antagonism, rivalry, backstabbing and bitchiness. There's nothing supernatural that exempts Abbott from being on the giving and/or receiving ends of that situation. Neither is it accurate to say that HE brought the party to the point of near election success. He had (and has) the assistance of virtually all the mainstream media behind him. And the media, need I remind you, are the single most influential, persuasive, powerful entity in a democracy. Ask yourself how he'd have fared without that incalculable advantage. How he (and the Coalition) would have fared during the election campaign if the media had put him to appropriate scrutiny (as the "alternative PM") by asking him the many hard questions that go begging, regards: his backflipping, dishonesty, policy flakiness, copious use of slogans, $11 billion costings black hole, walking out of press conferences when he didn't like the tone of questioning, various gaffes, attitudes to women, the poor. Watch this video and see how utterly useless he is when the media do, out of the blue, ask him a tough question or two. Note: it's not even a 'serious' news program quizzing him here, but a comedy show. Imagine how he'd have fared under fire from tough current affairs interviewers night after night. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABtlI2Wk3Ws

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/01/2011jj, Don't forget, "Over my dead body" opposition of Abbott, when in government, to a Paid Parental Leave Scheme. Which was replaced, in the old Howardian way of the Liberal Party, with a much more generous scheme, when it was realised that the electorate actually liked the idea no matter how much disinformation was spread over many years by the Coalition. Same goes for the NBN. The Coalition know it's a winner with the electorate. So they employ their two tried and true tactics to destroy it in the electorate's eyes. 1)Smears about its implementation, or those in charge of the implementation. 2)A chimera of policy mimicry that seeks to seem as though it promises as much, if not more than the ALP policy, but which, when it is actually forensically disected, as I have done with the Coalition's Broadband policy, and which the Mainstream media singularly fail to do, time after time with the Coalition, is found to be a hollow shell. As that's all the Coalition are really good at, the old shell game with the electorate. And, as Barnum and Bailey said, and as the Coalition know so well, 'There's a sucker born every minute'. jj, Can you please answer this one question? Why is it that a federal Labor government is always held to a higher standard of practice than a federal Liberal government? You can't deny that this is the case.

Ad astra reply

3/01/2011jj You never seem to get round to addressing the questions I pose for you. But I’ll keep trying. You assert this time that Tony Abbott’s changes over the ETS were the same as Julia Gillard’s, presumably because ‘circumstances had changed’. So what changed to warrant Abbott’s initial opposition to an ETS being followed by his urging that the ETS be supported, followed by his statement that climate change was ‘crap’, or words to that effect, then deciding the Coalition ought to oppose the ETS leading to his toppling of Malcolm Turnbull, and his trenchant opposition to the ETS at every stage since then, and his use of the GBNT mantra. There were many changes there, but what were the circumstances, other than naked political opportunism, that justified them? Please tell us, ball by ball, what events occurred to warrant Abbott’s multiple about faces in this area of politics. If you come here calling me a ‘damn right hypocrite’ ay least back your insult with verifiable facts, in the manner I attempted to do in justifying Gillard’s change of tack.

2353

3/01/2011And while you're answering questions JJ, explain why Abbott shouldn't agree that the Governments of Queensland and Australia ARE doing all they can in the current Queensland floods - do the honourable thing and either come up for a look-see with Gillard (and find out first hand what the response is) or stay away and let people do their jobs. That Abbott seems to think it necessary to make a separate trip to "inspect" damage and waste considerable resources including personnel, vehicles, aircraft etc is disgusting. He (and Joyce and Bolt) are using this disaster to make political mileage - which is below contempt. I await your reasoned response using facts rather than talking points from LNP HQ.

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/01/2011What! Andrew Bolt, Barnaby Joyce and Tony Abbott seeking to make political mileage out of the Queensland floods? And I thought they were honourable men! I mean, really, what does it say about these men that they are prepared to get up in the morning, and without any valid cause expend their mental energies devising a way to tear down a valid response by the federal ALP government to the Queensland floods? What does it say about their character? What does it say about the sort of government that they would lead, be a Minister in, or support fulsomely in the media? They are the people whose motives need to be 'inspected'.

Jason

3/01/2011jj, Your a bit thin skinned today? So would I if I made broad statements like you, that had no basis in fact and were nothing more than motherhood statements! Sorry I missed your opening salvo I would have responded earlier but was out all day fishing with my kids! But my comments still stand!

Jason

3/01/2011HS, Here's Barnyard in the SMH today http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/and-not-a-stop-to-think-as-government-ignores-water-20110102-19cza.html?comments=76#comments

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/01/2011Never fear! Tony Abbott's here! "Making sure government doesn't get in the way of the recovery." Of course, he's not 'getting in the way of the recovery', by commandeering an Army helicopter to ferry him about the place?

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/01/2011Jason, Unlike The Australian, at least the Fairfax newspapers allow comments that take apart the Coalition MP's article.

Jason

3/01/2011HS, Is it April fools day or what? now the father of humane treatment has also penned an article! The cartoon above it is great should be more of it never a truer word said!! http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/a-humane-policy-would-be-one-that-stopped-the-boats-coming/story-e6frg6zo-1225980658211

Patricia WA

3/01/2011Agreed, FS, amazing difference in the reponse to the two articles. In the Oz, hardly anything but mindless diatribes, simply proving the point made by Swan about knee-jerk negativity. In the SMH some really sane and critical comments about the decade of Coalition government under Howard when nothing constructive at all was done to address the nation's water supply issues at a time of unprecedented prosperity and national budget surpluses.

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/01/2011Patricia WA, I'm sorry but I forgot to reply earlier to your request to know more about playing Scrabble online. Are you a member of Facebook? If so then there is a link I was sent in an e-mail the other day to a group called Worldwide Scrabble Outside the US and Canada. Once you join that Facebook group then you can go to the GamesHouse site which hosts the server for the games. It is linked with all your facebook friends, like Migs, who are also members of the facebook group. Then you can just start playing by asking your friends for a game, or going into the worldwide pool on the server and challenging other people that want games. I've had so much fun recently playing games with people from the Middle East, India, England and America. Plus I had a game with Migs last night. Of course he beat me. :) Anyway, if you need more help with it, just let me know.

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/01/2011Jason, That article just proves how far the Coalition is prepared to go in exploiting the refugee problem. The silken-tongued words of Phillip Ruddock do not disguise the reality of the 'suite of measures' employed by the Coalition to 'Stop the Boats'. Driving people crazy, and that included many children(even though he may make the point that more children are now in detention under the Labor system), is non-existant now compared to how bad it was under the Coalition policy. I don't seem to remember that Sri Lanka and Iran were a problem in Howard's day, as they are now. As well as Iraq and Afghanistan still. Still, when you rewrite history, you can selectively make certain facts disappear. Did you also notice how he now admits to the fact that the Coalition returned boats 'in safety'? Tell that to the people abord Siev X. Also I'd like to see the figures for how many boats were returned by the Coalition, 'in safety', during the Howard years. How many allowed themselves to be returned 'in safety', with a forced Navy escort? Did it ever really happen at all, or is he just making that bit up now to suit the embroidery he has engaged in wrt the Howard years? Don't try and tell me that as soon as boats got into Australian waters, under a future Coalition government, that the Asylum Seekers wouldn't sabotage them to avoid being towed back 'in safety' to Indonesia. Which is not to say what Indonesia would think about the Australian Navy dumping the boats back onto them. It all sounds well and good, and Phillip Ruddock is the expert at making a draconian policy sound reasonable, however the reality would be much worse, again, than he makes out.

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/01/2011Jason, Did you catch any fish? There should be heaps around after all the rain in Spring. :)

BSA Bob

4/01/2011One of my all time favourite Howard Governmentisms (a while back now, but i'm sure it went something like this): Their Immigration Minister doing a standup photoshoot & saying that information received by the Government led them to conclude that as a result of their policies people smugglers were now targetting other countries instead of Australia. When asked to name one he proudly said "New Zealand". Our trans Tasman neighbours, our Commonwealth cousins & the NZ in ANZAC. None of this matters, just sail due east til you're past Cape York, then turn south & you're there. Go anywhere in the wide bloody world but here & that's all we care about. I find the liberals current insinuation that Indonesia is aware of her duty to prevent arrivals here, presumably keeping them herself, insulting & dangerous.

Hillbilly Skeleton

4/01/2011BSA Bob, Here! Here! What I find you must always do with the Coalition is to put their words and deeds into some historical context. They operate on the presumption that the electorate has the attention span of Guppies and will not be able to remember back beyond last week's Cricket-induced hangover and thus will be incapable of teasing out the substance from the spin. Or, just couldn't be bothered. Preferring instead to have their base prejudices coddled by the Coalition. It thus becomes their stock in trade to continue to peddle the smears about Asylum Seekers, which, to use a marine metaphor, are but a drop in the ocean compared to those which land on the shores of other UNHCR signatory countries. However the Coalition are determined to demonise them for all they are worth. Which is not much, when they behave like that.

TalkTurkey

4/01/2011BSA Bob, you tell it well. Personally I think Kiwis have much to hold their heads high about, where we Australians must hang ours. The Grubber is just a little bit of litmus. Jason you are doing a great job in finding interesting stuff. Thanks Cobber. I missed posting anything yesterday thanks to my Optus Wireless failing me repeatedly. It does. It's very frustrating. In speed and capability it seems to be very location-sensitive, but that's hard to determine, compounded by what time of which day and who knows what. Anyone explain in kindy terms for me? Ad, some of the time when I go to post a comment, the two Captcha words are not in evidence, then I have to save my message and close and open and try again. ( ? ) Skelly please update us on how you are convalescing. Sounds like it might take a while, but hopefully a short one. You sure haven't let it stop your posts! jj you disappoint me, I know you're not on this planet to please me but dear oh dear why are you so rancid? Are you very rich? Ordinary battlers, if they're aware enough to not let Murdoch lead them by the nose, know that Labor works ceaselessly if imperfectly in their interests, where the Coalition works in the interests of Privilege. It was true when Labor first formed, and it's true today. So what's biting you, Old Dear? I do keep hoping you'll distance yourself from the likes of Limpy, who sadly is so hateful, because what else can you think but that nearly all those who write on The Sword are caring, sensible and welcoming folk whom you'd prefer to Howard's type as neighbours? Get well soon Skelly Come back Lyn Bring back Maxine Come back Bring Back Maxine Thank You to all Swordsfolk, always.

Jason

4/01/2011Dear Mr Gerry Harvey, I see in today's media you and your comrades have decided to pour money into a media campaign like the miners did with the mining tax. Mr Harvey just before Christmas my daughter wanted some "Lady GaGa" headphones, so I drove the 5 minutes to your shop to price them and found them to be $160.00! Now I did find this to be a little expensive and said to my daughter (11) she may not be able to have them. Imagine my surprise when we got home she showed me a store in MELBOURNE on eBay that could send these same headphones to my house with postage for $49.00! So what should I do? give you an extra $110.00 so you can rip me off I think not. If you and your brothers involved in this campaign were having things made here and not on the back of cheap Asian sweatshop workers where wages, conditions and the standard of living is less I could understand, but you don't! now the "market" at which alter you pray is telling you something! We don't like being ripped off! http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/industry-sectors/online-sales-will-kill-jobs-retailers/story-e6frg9h6-1225981302010

Jason

4/01/2011AA, Andrew Elder's responce to Peter van Onselen's article in the Oz http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/2011/01/seven-begged-questions-in-australian.html

Gravel

4/01/2011Jason Thanks for that great cartoon, you were right it is on the money, if only other people could see how right you are. I also agree with you about the lousy billionaires having a whinge, I think you gave them one good black eye with your purchase, well done to your daughter who knows how to spot a bargain online. TalkTurkey sorry you are having trouble with your online stuff. I also have had a bit of trouble lately with the two word thingy not being there but I just save what I have typed and do a refresh or come back a bit later and the problem resolves. I do notice that at the particular time I have trouble when I come back that someone has made a comment, and maybe the system can't take two lots of comments being posted at the one time.

Bring Back Maxine

4/01/2011Hi AA & fellow Swordians Belated Seasons Greetings!! The last two and a half months have been hectic dealing with an elderly parent with hospital, respite care, back to hospital/ICU and now hopefully back to respite care. It is only recently that I have had the chance to read recent articles in detail. FS Your article re Wayne Swann beginning with some vintage Keating was pretty spot on. Swann is (cf. Keating ) a quiet Achiever. His role as Tresurer handling the GFC has certainly achieved more than Costello ever did and more than Hockey could dream of achieving in a dozen lifetimes. Swann keeps putting runs on the board as his banking package shows. He needs to be a not so quiet Achiever. This applies to the Gillard Government as well. I think it is time that we see much more Govt. information ads in the media eg new home loan changes. No doubt the Abbortt will scream about the waste & mismanagement of money but as long as the money spent is kept reasonably below the excesses of the Howard waste,they will get away with it politically. AA Your article re what Abbortt stands for is another well argued piece about the policy vacuum that constantly surrounds him. I particularly like the recent Andrew Elder observation: [b]Abbott has no vision for Australia other than himself in the Lodge.[/b] http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/ I've been reading a very short introduction on the Spanish Civil War recently and I was surprised to recognize some strong resonance with our current political situation in Australia. In particular what Abbortt stands for, which I believe is to solely represent the powerful vested interests who wish to maintain their privileged status quo. These are Murdoch and the old media, the mining industry and the Catholic Church. These vested groups are threatened by the NBN, ETS & Mining Tax, and the increasing influence of the Greens respectively. What I had difficulty in understanding is why good policy obliviously in the National interest is being so vehemently opposed by Abbortt. While reading about the Spanish Civil War and how it began with the old vested interests totally opposed to the reforms of the Republican Government (which btw had its own BER to mitigate rising unemployment due to the Depression!) the parallels dawned on me. Holding good policy which is in the national interest to account is to seek a fully detailed explanation (with necessary amendments) to ensure that the Government legislation delivers the best outcome for a majority of its citizens. Abbortt, despite his phoney rhetoric of holding the Government to account, only wants to oppose, oppose, oppose. He has no genuine desire amend good national policy because he has no idea what good policy in the national interest is. That is why he is a policy free-zone, expect to install himself in the Lodge to better serve the vested interests behind him. Talk Turkey I'm glad you share my sentiments about about Ms Maxine McKew. A very intelligent woman who brought gravitas and calm rationale to public debate. I dearly hope to see her back. Parliament needs women of her calibre. Jason You provide great ripostes to the reactionaries here. Could you do me a favour? Would give the gist of the articles you link in the Murdoch press as well as the hyperlink. More work I know but at least I won't have to go to the Murdoch site. I find anything that supports Murdoch, even to read an article for free by clicking on a link to be repulsive.

TalkTurkey

4/01/2011Bring Back Maxine You came back! You are possibly the only blogger on the planet whose blog name (the hip term for which I know not but am confident that someone will tell me) is also a political warcry. 'On ya. Come back Adelaide Girl!

Hillbilly Skeleton

4/01/2011Talk Turkey, I'm almost better. :) I still wake up in the morning nauseous(a side effect of a combined Gastroenteritis/Pyelonephritis couple of infections), so my appetite is thus slow to build up steam during the day, as am I. However, the good news is I went down to town on the bus today with my son, walked around a bit and did some things while my son got his hair cut, then we jumped on a bus back home, and here I am now, still in one piece! I think I should be back on track by next week. Thank you for asking. :) As for your Wireless Broadband, well, all I can say is 'I told you so!'. In a general sense, of course. That is the 'superior' technology that Malcolm Turnbull and the Coalition are trying to con the electorate into believing is just as good, if not better than the NBN. As if! As far as I know, your problems yesterday could have been due to the fact that, as it was a Public Holiday, many more people than normal in your area were trying to access the network, so the congestion overwhelmed it. Or, if it was a cloudy day then it could have been affected by the clouds in the sky. Also, the more people that get onto the Wireless networks, the more repeater towers that need to be put up, and if there aren't enough it leads to that congestion problem. In other words, Wireless is not a Magic Pudding, despite what the Coalition would have you believe.

Hillbilly Skeleton

4/01/2011Welcome back, BBM! Sorry to hear about your parent who is unwell, I can sympathise, I truly can. I don't know what it is about the end of the year but so many people keep it together and going and going, until they just can't anymore and they metaphorically fall over by years end. That's exactly why we should never allow a policy as evil as WorkChoices to darken the nation's doorstep ever again, it takes no account of human fallibility and just treats us all as expendable work units. Anyway, all the best to you and yours for the New Year. Btw, how's your new local member, John Anderson going? As bad as one would have expected?

jj

4/01/2011TT, You may wish to be back in the class warfare days of the early and mid 1990's but i am afraid Australia has moved on a bit since then. The Liberal Party has gained over 50% of the Australia popular vote many more elections than what the Labor Party has, and unless you believe that the majority of Australians are pompous, rich bastards than what you say about the Liberal Party and its voters is just plain false. The Liberal Party is a party for all backgrounds, socio economic groups and heritage. AA, Sorry for this belated response but we have been very busy of late... guests and other things. But in response to your questions earlier, "So what changed to warrant Abbott’s initial opposition to an ETS being followed by his urging that the ETS be supported, followed by his statement that climate change was ‘crap’, or words to that effect, then deciding the Coalition ought to oppose the ETS leading to his toppling of Malcolm Turnbull, and his trenchant opposition to the ETS at every stage since then, and his use of the GBNT mantra. There were many changes there, but what were the circumstances, other than naked political opportunism, that justified them?" Well firstly if you look at the timeline of events, Tony Abbott stated his support for the ETS up until the point where the legislation became diluted and he felt that it would, "not to anything to help the environment, but would do alot to harm the economy" (or words to the effect), and that we should wait at least until the US and China agree to impose such a scheme. Then Copenhagen happened (well didnt really happen) and the biggest emitters didnt budge. So Abbott decided to take the GBNT approach to the issue. He was then backed up by the US giving up on passing the emissions related bill, helping back the Abbott cause. But let us remember that your Gillard is no angel either in having told Rudd to drop the ETS after having said she was a supporter and then when Kevin became unpopular because of that decision, deciding to dismantle him as leader. Now as for the 'climate change is crap' thin, i have explained many times before that you are being quite devious in using this false Labor party line. Abbott said that the 'issue of the so called settled climate science is absolute crap' which is a position many people out there in the community hold; that is that they believe we are obviously making an impact but they just arent so sure it is as bad as the various scientific bodies proclaim. I believe that answers the questions you raised.

Ad astra reply

4/01/2011jj I’ve been busy all day too with two more children and three grandchildren. It’s always difficult to assign a motive for any action. Clearly you are convinced that Tony Abbott’s several changes of heart about climate change and the ETS are logical and plausible. I don’t share your conviction. To me, and to many others, his motive seemed to be simply political opportunism. We shall have to leave it at that. I shall not be able to convince you of that. Previously you have quoted a different version of what Abbott said in Beaufort. What has been reported is not as you assert, ‘a false Labor party line’. His ‘climate change is absolute crap’ line has been repeated [i]ad nauseam[/i] by the Murdoch and Fairfax media, by the ABC, and bloggers galore. So are you the only one who has got it right and all the rest have it wrong? If you wish to cling to your version, namely that he said: [i]”…the issue of the so called settled climate science is absolute crap[/i], don’t expect the rest of us to join you.

TalkTurkey

4/01/2011jj said "The Liberal Party has gained over 50% of the Australia popular vote many more elections than what the Labor Party has" Unless I am much mistaken the Liberal Party has never gained so much as 50% of the "Australia popular vote"(sic). Nor of the 2-party preferred for that matter.

2353

4/01/2011And to discredit JJ's current version of the reason that Abbott flip flops on climate change - the Chinese Govt accepted it was a "man made" problem early last year. See here -> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/11/2842415.htm. California is also investing heavily in activities to reduce the effects of climate change. See here -> http://www.climatechange.ca.gov/. Wasn't Arnie a Republican? If the largest and 8th largest economies in the world agree the problem is real, who is it better to believe - them or a failed Jesuit Priest with a apparent liking for budgie smugglers?

jj

4/01/20112353, If you had of read what i wrote properly than you would realise that Abbott accept that we as humans were impacting on the glob through our emissions but he stated that he wasnt so sure that it was to the extent that was being predicted. China however at Copenhagen declined to sign a major legally binding deal to reduce emissions and therefore the US followed, giving Abbott line a bit more clout. It is easy to say you believe, the harder to act. TT, You are mistaken. The Liberal/ Country Party/ UAP has been the party of Federal Government for the past three quarters of a century (or there abouts). And just off the top of my head i think Howard secured a 50%+ two party preferred vote in 2001 and 2004. So if the Coalition is the dominant party of government than your assertion that it only stands for the rich is bullocks.

sawdustmick

4/01/2011jj Abbott said that the 'issue of the so called settled climate science is absolute crap' Wrong. This is what Abbott said, on the 30th September 2010 in the town of Beaufort. 'The science around climate change was `absolute crap' You inserted the words 'so called settled climate science'. This was a follow on statement from Abbott on the 4-5th October 2010, and was an attemt by Abbott to hose down the flack he received from his original claim in Beaufort. Perhaps the devious person in this instance is you jj not AA.

TalkTurkey

4/01/2011little bit of soul-bareing. I want to acknowledge that, self-projections hitherto possibly apparently to the contrary, I know that I am really neither very deep nor very clever. What Yous see here of me is about the best there is of me. I write reasonably well, and I'm quite proficient at rhyming verse for some reason, and I've done some designs I'm quite proud of, but after that there's not all that much more. I do care passionately about politics, the environment, politics, humanity, politics, biodiversity, human ideas and politics, and I despise wastefulness, bigotry, inhumanity, all that stuff, sure. But I fear I have probably come across too often as bombastic and puffed-up and some other nasty words. Well I think Feral Skeleton's pictures with the little gulping Dorothy are germane here, I'm a bit like the Wiz, (probly more wizened ha ha), anyway frightful-sounding until exposed but pretty insignificant after all. Well, what I want to say is, It's because of the nature of The Political Sword that I feel that there are people to listen to my voice at all, and something to contribute in my own pretty scatty way. I haven't very-developed research skills, so Lyn's a Pied Piper to me, (come back Lyn), and I am in awe of many of Yous in your delvings into political events and opinions, and your understanding of the Net and stuff. So those of You who have ever said nice things about what TalkTurkey has ever said, (and it surprises me btw how many, or rather how several, of You there have been), well I must say how very gratifying it is when it comes from persons I respect a lot by now, Ad astra and Hillbilly Feral Skeleton most of all. It greatly helps one's focus to think that there will be people to read what one is writing, and perhaps some to comment; and the blog name one uses gives one a sort of alter ego or persona or one of those things that makes us kind of super, gives us sort of seven-league boots and slightly magical powers, not at all that I think it makes us invisible if the CIA really wants to find out about us (least of all me*), but rather as one of those sit-on-your-knee cheeky puppets allows the puppeteer to get away with outrageous irreverence, or even apparent authority. I am writing this rave in the belief that many feel this as I do, and I want to give voice to that in order that we identify it clearly and treasure it. The Sword in particular is a great stimulus to write, and an ever-changing window on the world. Come back Lyn. Keep coming back Bring Back Maxine. Keep getting better Skelly. Come back Adelaide Girl! *(Anyway TalkTurkey is really LiarBird, They can't catch me!)

Hillbilly Skeleton

4/01/2011jj, Your arguments are all over the shop like a madwoman's breakfast. 1) In the most recent election, 2010, the ALP+Greens 'Australian popular vote(sic), was > the Liberal+National+LNP+CLP vote. That's 4 parties versus 2, and the 2 parties of the Left of Centre beat the 4 parties of the Right of Centre. It has been trending this way for over a decade. Which is more relevant as a statistic than the number of years the UAP/Liberal/Country/National parties have been in power in Coalition, as neither the Liberal or Country/National Party, CLP or LNP, are ever able to govern in their own right. Labor has always had to achieve enough votes to govern in its own right, absent its own Coalition partner, and that is the way it has always wanted it to be. On the other hand, the Liberal Party and the National/Country Party have always chafed at the bit of Coalition. The Liberal Party would love to govern Australia in their own right without the National Party, but they know they cannot. However they continue to try and strengthen their position in the country seats and try to take them off the Nationals at every opportunity. 2) You failed to mention the Gerrymander, which enabled the UAP/Liberal/Country/National parties to stay in power longer than they ought to have. 3) The US has not enacted Climate Change legislation, not because they do not want to, but because the progenitors of Abbott's 'Just Say No' policy, the Republican Party, have derailed any attempts to do something about Climate Change at a federal level. Thus it has been up to the individual States, such as California, to take the lead. That is, to show leradership on the issue, as opposed to playing silly political games with such a serious matter. Also to oppose any action due to the financial support of the fossil fuel industry. Who have been proven to be behind all the anti-Global Warming proponents. And, if you don't believe in Global Warming to the extent expounded by the IPCC scientists, as 'Two Bob Each Way' Abbott has settled on as his position, well, for the moment anyway, then just explain all the most recent extreme weather events that have occurred around the globe, and even in our own backyards in Qld., NSW and Victoria. I have heard on more than one occasion recently, people in the street when they are interviewed, say that they had just gotten over what was supposed to have been a 1 in 30, or 1 in 100 year flood event, only to have it happen again a year later! Same with the extreme cold weather in the Northern Hemisphere. Which is the point about Climate Change, as the globe overheats, the weather swings more wildly. Now, you and Mr Abbott might be comfortable saying that it's not as bad as all that. That the threat from Global Warming is being exaggerated. I'm not as inclined to feel such comforting reassurance. Especially when I hear a Climatologist say that Climate Change means that what used to be 1 in 100 year events, have now collapsed down to being 1 in 30 year events, and may even collapse even further if we don't do something about Global Warming sooner rather than later. You and Mr Abbott mat have faith in God being able to come to the rescue when the 'Absolute Crap' hits the fan, I'm a scientist, and I just can't compel myself to have that amount of blind faith. 4) China was playing politics at Copenhagen. That much has been documented. That is why they refused to sign a binding agreement. They instead wanted to get the jump on the rest of the world when it came to manufacturing Renewable Energy infrastructure. Now that they have the market cornered, after poaching our world-leading Solar Manufacturer, and restricting the supply of Rare Earths to the market, which they keep and use to manufacture Wind Turbines, they were quite happy recently at Cancun to move the Global Warming intiative forward and sign on with the rest of the world to do more. Something which I notice you have not made one mention of. The recent successful outcome of negotiations, with our very own Greg Combet at the forefront and acknowledged as a prime mover in getting that agreement, of the Cancun Global Warming Conference. Instead, in your mealy-mouthed way, jj, you constantly carp about the lack of a successful outcome at Copenhagen. Disingenuous in the extreme, and as clear an example as one could get of the fact that conservatives, when they don't have a leg to stand on, just make it up as they go along to suit their prejudices and line of attack.

TalkTurkey

4/01/2011jj said "TT, You are mistaken. The Liberal/ Country Party/ UAP has been the party of Federal Government for the past three quarters of a century (or there abouts)" jj, compare with your original statement which I correctly contradicted: "The Liberal Party has gained over 50% of the Australia popular vote many more elections than what the Labor Party has" Try telling Barnyard he's in the Liberal Party, maybe? Such a silly girl. I don't know why we bother with you. But I'll persevere.

Hillbilly Skeleton

4/01/2011Talk Turkey, Take it from me, your contributions to The Political Sword are always welcome and contribute to the rich tapestry that TPS has become since its inception. Who knew we could all be so creative? :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

4/01/2011And that's 'Professor Feral Hillbilly Skeleton' to you! :) Or 'Feral' will do just fine. We assume no airs and graces here. We try to practice the egalitarianism that we preach.

Jason

4/01/2011jj, wrong yet again! TT's point still stands! at each and every election the Lib's and Nats have separate how to vote cards, they do this because they are separate parties in every sense of the word, and often stand their own candidates in what is known as three cornered contests! So the Liberal party by its self haven't done what you claim and the"Coalition" isn't a registered political party!except at a state level in QLD where it's called the liberal national party LNP!

TalkTurkey

4/01/2011Jason, I see poor Gerry Harvey crying the sky is falling, the Internet is going to be the end of us all, well Cobber that headphones story of yours is the antidote to that sort of talk! . . . and it seems to me that Blogging is probably the only way to get it out there. We have to come up with ways of making stories like that (and that one in particular) go viral, as we cybergroovers like to say. That's what I mean about practising swordplay . . . stuff like that . . . This very really is a sort of war, the MSM and its proteges and beneficiaries and allies, Murdochracy in particular, and Abbortt in person, really are The Enemy, and we need to find chinks in their massive armour, the way that Elf in Lord of the Rings shot his arrow down the Elefaunt's throat. Poor Elefaunt, but not poor Murdochracy. Not poor Gerry. Not poor piggish miners. How much money does Gerry Harvey really make? How much does that fatherly-looking smiling fella ever put back by way of genuine largesse? Hell why should he anyway, he's providing employment for yuddadda yuddadda give me a break. Jason was being asked $160 by Harvey, he ended up paying $49 postage included to buy the same item on eBay. That's the nub. Legal extortion, and we have a means of fighting it.

Hillbilly Skeleton

4/01/2011Talk Turkey, Gerry Harvey doesn't want 'A level playing field', he wants to go back to the unlevel playing field that he has benefited from for far too long. He is a Billionaire! He has made that money off the backs of unsuspecting rubes who believe his 'Interest Free for x months', or 'No payments for x months' lines. What he doesn't say is that as soon as that 'Interest Free' period ends, and you haven't finished paying for his overpriced crap, then up go the interest rates through the roof. Also, if you're having trouble paying, he doesn't hesitate to send around the Sherriffs/Heavies, to get his pound of flesh. THAT'S the sort of playing field Gerry Harvey is used to playing on. He has made a concerted effort, I hazard an educated guess, to not assume any airs and graces which would dispel his carefully cultivated 'man of the people', little Aussie Battler image. He cultivates exactly the same 'thrifty small businessman' persona that Keating accuses Howard of in the clip at the top of the blog. Needless to say that 'Flash as a rat with a gold tooth' Gerry is close friends with that other rodent, Howard. I just hope that no one believes a word Gerry Harvey has to say. He's not worried about jobs. That's just a catch-cry meant to tug at the heart strings of the gullible. He's just worried about his declining profit margin. Boo Hoo. My heart bleeds that he may not be able to buy that extra thoroughbred at his 'Magic Millions' Horse Sale this month. Not.

2353

5/01/2011The irony of Gerry Harvey complaining about others "unfair" trading practices is when he started, he was accused by the Department Stores of the same thing. In reality he found a loophole and exploited it - now others are doing it to him. Harvey Norman stores are franchisees anyway, if the franchisees present a reason for people to come in there (good prices or knowledgable staff - neither of which is really evident at the moment in my experience), a lot of people will go there anyway. While the media is reporting it - they don't seem to be on a crusade. On Sunrise this morning, the claim was that the lack of GST on goods under $1000 was making a difference. They then went on to ask why the "difference" was something like 38%.

Hillbilly Skeleton

5/01/2011Here's an article from today's Fairfax papers that knocks Gerry Harvey's BS into a cocked hat: http://www.smh.com.au/business/billionaire-retailers-cop-brand-damage-20110104-19f4h.html

Hillbilly Skeleton

5/01/2011I think Gerry Harvey got too used to having it too good for too long under the Howard government. They encouraged the ethos of the Franchisee retailer, so that people like Harvey could set up their businesses in such a way that the risk was placed onto the shoulders of the franchisees, while the Franchisor just sat back and creamed off their take of the profits. Then the Howard government started allowing these retailers to employ their staff at any time of the night and day for the same rate of pay. Then, of course, came the cherry on top, WorkChoices, which stripped away any benefits the poor worker used to get when it came to Holiday Pay, Superannuation, LSL, Penalty Rates of pay, Sick Leave and Permanency, as the Casualisation of the workforce continued unabated, and the Individual Contract era bloomed like a cancer on our workforce. All the while unscrupulous bustards like Gerry Harvey thrived and prospered off the sweat from other's brows. So much so that he could afford to get into the thoroughbred horse breeding business, one of the most cost intensive pursuits known to man. What a hypocrite that man is to whinge about losing some of the profits that he has waxed fat on over the past few years. He should be ashamed of himself, but he has no shame. That's obvious. I have a suggestion for Gerry Harvey. Why don't you save some money by stopping your company's ads from being played on each and every channel on TV every ad break? You'd probably make up the difference wrt what you are losing to online sales. And we'd all be much happier to not have to listen to your bawling ads as much as we have to now.

TalkTurkey

5/01/2011Jason Seems to me you are a bit of a LiarBird yourself. You masquerade as a Pastry Cook and Crane Driver, but you're really an Investigative Researcher and Pithy Comments Person. I've just been reading your post of January 3. 2011 06:05 PM about Barnyard and the Qld floods. Dog what a dingbat. He wants to dam the flats to hold all the water. er . . . What was that . . . Dam the flats? Yeah right, maybe better to just pray hard, get the water to do what the Red Sea did for Moses in Cecil B de Mille's (wasn't it?) production of Exodus,(wasn't it?) where the water just banks up with no visible means of support, and of course it would have the advantage that you could get G.. Goh . . . g-g-g gee I still can't get the word out, anyway get Him to keep all the towns dry like where the Israelitic flock crossed the Red Sea . . . That'd all be feasible eh Barmy? You're religious, yeah? Or just get Abbortt to do the praying . . . Oh I just had another thought. This'd work: Drill lots of dirty great plugholes, say as big around as Uluru, straight down thousands of feet into the artesian basin, (nearly emptied because Julia Gillard didn't Stop The Emptying), so the water will all go SHLSSSSSSSSSSSS down and fill the basin up again. We will need great big bathplugs for all the drier seasons, what could be more practical? And with all the dirt and rock we dig up can build more dams and towns out on the flood plain eh Barmy?

Jason

5/01/2011Hi All, Has anyone from the opposition put their heads up and come out in support of the "Retailers"? apart from Bob Brown http://bob-brown.greensmps.org.au/content/media-release/greens-propose-100-gst-free-threshold-online-shopping Bob seems to have forgotten that under the howard government the threshold for the GST and duty-free imports was rasied from $250 to $1000. But where was Gerry et al then? apparently if the GST isn't included on online shopping, jobs will be lost overseas they tell us, it seems ok to set up your customer sevice call center in India, have your electronics, white goods and clothes made in China, but if consumers whsh to cut out the middle man, these old protectionists cry foul! Gerry old boy you cry about it not being a level playing field! maybe the next cause you could take up is getting rid of family trusts so it's not only the PAYE worker paying the right amount of tax!

Hillbilly Skeleton

5/01/2011Jason, Do you remember when 'Honest' Peter Costello promised the ALP that he would get rid of Family Trusts in exchange for their vote in parliament to alter the rate of Capital Gains Tax? After the vote he just stonewalled and kept ignoring their requests for the Coalition to honour their side of the bargain. Also, to add more evidence to support the claim that the Coalition can't lie straight in bed when it comes to telling the truth about their economic policies, remember when Costello claimed that the GST would get rid of the 'Black Economy'? http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/16/1052885380731.html

Jason

5/01/2011Far be it for me not to have sympathy for those suffering from the floods, and yes it must be very tough for those affected, However Ron Boswell who sold fire and general insurance between 1957 and 1966, has come up with a thought bubble as I see it at the moment as there is very little detail at this stage and he's yet to talk to Abbott about it! In short he wants to put a great big new tax on those of us who take out household insurance policies so we can have a "National Insurance Pool" to cover flood disasters. Ron goes on to say "And it's always worried me that most of the insurance companies in those days, (I assume 1957 to 1966) and I think even now, don't cover flood insurance," he said. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/nationals-senator-ron-boswell-proposes-insurance-pool-for-flood-disasters/story-fn59niix-1225982331135

Hillbilly Skeleton

5/01/2011Here's a great article about the e-tail fight Gerry Harvey et al have pulled on which knocks all their arguments, one by one, into a cocked hat: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Harvey-Norman-Myer-David-Jones-retail-GST-pd20110104-CS48W?OpenDocument&src=kgb

BH

5/01/2011Happy New Year HS - good reading. Yeah, I remember only too well Costello's promise about Trusts. I used to be involved in setting them up for clients and it rankled badly at the methods used to avoid paying tax by those who could. The poor old PAYE bloke copped it all ways. I believed Costello when he said he would do something about it. Of course, I never believed him every again. Same with the GST and the black economy. Absolutely nothing changed it just meant you were given 2 prices. 1 with GST and 1 without - take your pick. Swannie really could do with a 'fun' gene but I'd stake my life on him genuinely helping me if I was in trouble. I'd think twice about Costello. It's just a pity that Hockey's buffoonery plays better with the mob than Swan's genuine desire to do his job well.

Hillbilly Skeleton

5/01/2011And, right on cue, Liberal Party shills, Donald McGauchie and Warwick McKibbon, feed a story to The Australian in support of the Opposition's fallacious campaign about excessive Labor government spending causing Interest Rate rises and thus the decreased spend in the shops over Xmas. An opinion which the Governor of the Reserve Bank, and other Deputy Governors, have debunked time and again. I imagine Joe(k) Hockey will be all over the news tonight like a rash with this erroneous assertion. Here's The Age story: http://www.theage.com.au/business/improve-service-compete-hockey-tells-retailers-20110105-19flu.html

Jason

5/01/2011HS, Also don't forget Donald McGauchie former head of the NFF led his scab farmers onto the wharves, he was in charge of telstra who hired the three amigo's and sent the share price south, I would go as far to say if it wasn't for his coalition party connections he would be unemployed, and now his term is almost up on the board of the reserve bank lets hope he just disappears, nothing but a grub!

Patricia WA

5/01/2011And another thing besides our personal and national debt that Oz has to thank Labor and Julia Gillard for is our cricket teams's disastrous play in this latest test. Well, that's according to cheeky John Birmingham in his Fairfax column which I read via this Larvatus Prodeo link http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/blogs/blunt-instrument/ashes-failure-its-gillards-fault/20110103-19dmc.html I had some fun with my response to Fairfax, but they take hours to vet comments. Thought you might enjoy it here and at Cafe Whispers. Apologies to FS if it is only glancingly relevant, as it were. [quote]Stess and Strine for Orstraylia In These Testing Times![/quote] Some say our Julia is to blame. She’s why Oz has lost the Ashes. You commentators! You’re all the same. Looking for those headline splashes. Surely there’s a more obvious name, Why doesn’t someone grab it? The cause of all our national shame Is that rotten Mr. Rabbit. He says he loves our national game, But John Howard’s former magic Won’t strengthen this, his new heir’s claim, That he too’s a cricket tragic. They know he finds it all too tame Beside a field of grass or clover, He thinks the play is pretty lame Till someone bowls a maiden over. That wakes him up. Back in the frame, He hears the words, ‘a wicket maiden’ And he’ll applaud. Then he’ll exclaim To Oz batsmen, “Great! that slayed ‘em!” Truly, his one and only aim, Employing tools like ‘spin’ and ‘sledge’ Is trying to run out that dame. For that he’d look for any edge. No wonder that our national game Isn’t going well for Aussies. 'Rabbit?' That’s a hopeless players’s name! Where are his whites? What’s with the cossies? The PM though, red hair aflame Really does look great in white. The public greet her with acclaim. Wearing those pants, she’s quite a sight. Mr. Rabbit’s just not worth the time. Send him off! Back into his hutch. Let’s hear “Howzat!" and “Play the gayme!” Called by Julia. She’s got the winning touch.

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5/01/2011Folks Thank you all for your comments today. I've been busy carting a massive pile of low-hanging tree branches, chained-sawed a couple of days ago, to a mega bonfire that we will light when conditions allow, so I've not had time to blog. Tomorrow I'll be away all day from early morning travelling to Melbourne and back.

BSA Bob

5/01/2011Just briefly read the Age- or is it Murdoch? piece above. Interesting how Hockey & Co. will never under any circumstances get in the way of our right to borrow way too much. Repayment problems are always in some way their opponents' fault. It reads as "stab in the back" tactics- It's not your fault, Fred & Jenny Bloggs, or yours either Jerry, but The Enemy Within's.

Hillbilly Skeleton

5/01/2011Patricia WA, They printed your poem on the John Birmingham blog! And so they should have. It was great. I hope Mr Birmingham noticed that the PM was at the SCG today for Jane McGrath Day. Much more important time to be at the cricket for a woman PM.

Hillbilly Skeleton

5/01/2011BSA Bob, The Republicans in the US witter on endlessly about 'Debt and Deficit' too, as if running the national economy was like running the budget of a bleedin' corner shop. As Keating so correctly observed about Howard, the conservatives love to assume that thrifty corner shop owner mentality and try to transfer it to the national stage, when their is no relevance or equivalence at all.

janice

6/01/2011A very happy 2011 everyone. I have taken a break from thinking, eating and sleeping politics in favour of playing catch-up on other things. A week into the New Year, I looked in here to see all the Political Sword stalwarts maintaining an interesting discussion. HS, thank you for the above piece and I hope you have recovered/or recovering from that nasty illness. May 2011 bring good health to you and yours. A few days before Xmas I was presented with a beautifully constructed mud nest filled with four fluffy-down-covered peewee babes. The nest had been removed from a TV aerial because it interfered with reception and the removalists delivered them to 'the lady who takes in animals/birds in distress'. So, I have spent the festive season shovelling food into the open gapes of four hungry and fast growing birds. At first light I am out there catching grasshoppers while they're cold and sluggish enough to fall prey to my stiff, arthritic hands and poor eyesight. (I did offer 10 cents per g/hopper to a grandchild but she gave up after earning her first $2). Anyway, my charges are now fully fledged and exercising their wings to strengthen them for flight. In a week or so they will be out learning to fend for themselves with the knowledge that their human mother is on hand to supplement their foraging if required. Patricia WA I've probably told you before that I enjoy your verse but your latest effort above prompts me to do so again. Thank you.

Hillbilly Skeleton

6/01/2011janice, HAPPY NEW YEAR! Thank you so much for your kind words. Yes I am progressing on the road to recovery. It'll take more than a few (million) devious bacteria to knock me off my perch. So, it's onwards and upwards again in 2011. Someone has to be around to keep the bustards honest. Other than a few hundred other rational bloggers in Australia, that is! Actually, that's going to be my catch-all word of the year, 'rationa', as that's how I feel when I compare the policies of the egalitarian, progressive-thinking, so-called 'Left', with the irrational, mile wide, inch deep, opportunistic thinking of the 'Right'. I feel like we here are the missionaries of the rational against the Voodoo of the irrational politics which spews like a constant stream of verbal diarrhoeaic incantations from the lips of the Shamen of the Right, meant only to befuddle and brainwash the unthinking and politically uneducated masses. It distresses me to read how they use words, not to enlighten, but to cloud the minds of those who are trusting enough of men and women in such high places to place their faith in the commentary that they make about the government. This applies in equal measure to commentators in the media and to politicians in the Opposition. Thus, so as to not see too many political babies, struggling to survive, sacrificed on the alter of political opportunism and demolition, I, like you with your baby Pee Wees, will seek to feed goodness this year into the gaping maws of the internet. Thank you, again, janice, for coming back to see how we were going with that task, here at TPS in 2011. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

6/01/2011Here's a very good little article on how the Conservatives work their visual voodoo: (albeit in America, but what comes around there, goes around here. Just think about it next time you see 'Jovial' Joe Hockey in a comfy sweater brandishing a baby, or Tony Abbott performing a menial task for the cameras, or out and about in the community in sluggoes or MAMIL gear) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-shaw/reading-the-pictures-igop_b_804539.html

Patricia WA

6/01/2011BSA B and HS - I'm wondering what the Coalition line will be on the Government's contribution to Queensland and business there generally post floods? Wasteful or unnecessarily profligate? Possibly both, depending on the day and who is orating! Thanks, Janice. I loved reading about your peewee babes. Of course one always loves very young things. Nature made sure of that. But somehow the older I get the more susceptible I am to the very young. We have a brand new baby in the house behind and a puppy next door with my daughter's family. Just holding either of them is heart stoppingly sweet. In shops or out walking with Tacker I am irresistably drawn to admire the very young. Their perfection and charm beguile me as never before. Your empathy for animals in need must bring you the same sort of satisfaction.

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6/01/2011Folks I'm in a doctor's waiting room, so have a moment to blog. PatriciaWA Thank you for your delightful verse and the link to John Birmingham's tongue-in-piece. Janice Welcome back in 2011. What a kind lady you are - how lucky are the pee ewes. I hope they will soon fly high and free. FS Your comments are always spot-on. Thank you for the Huff Post link. We are bound to see the same thing here. I've just downloaded the Huff Post App for iPad. It's free. Did you hear on the news that Barack Obama's White House Press Secretary has resigned possibly because of Democrat criticism that the administration's successes have been poorly publicized. Sound familiar.

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6/01/2011Folks Corrections: It should have been 'tongue-in-cheek piece.' And of course 'pee wees' We could not envisage flying 'ewes', could we? Typing on a iPad is typographically hazardous, and I've discovered the iPad automatically 'corrects' 'wees' to 'ewes'.

Miglo

6/01/2011Feral, I didn't know you'd written a new post until someone pointed it out at Café Whispers. I thus apologise for being tardy in visiting TPS in the New Year. As I'm at work I don't have the immediate time to consume your post, however I know in advance that it will be another worthwhile read from you. And happy New Year to all my friends here at TPS.

Hillbilly Skeleton

6/01/2011Ad Astra, That's why I'm waiting for the Toshiba Tab or the Samsung Galaxy Tab to come out. 1. They are not Apple. 2. They can be typed on easier, so I hear. 3. They have front and rear facing cameras for video chat. 4. They have the Android OS.

adelaidegirl

6/01/2011Hi Ad, the funny wordy things are back so please ignore my message! I tried to send this a couple of days ago . . . Happy New Year Patricia WA, Talk Turkey and all Swordians! I've been lurking regularly as TPS (and a few other blogs) has been the only source of news I've paid attention to and I haven't had anything interesting to contribute due to a lack of telly watching on my (too short) break. I did get through three books! Guess I'm a bit burnt out by the political scene. Although I know that a Rabbot govt. would be akin to the people of Australia slitting their own collective throats (if only the mob had but one throat! Nero, I think). But I'm also disappointed with the Government and it's seeming lack of a cohesive message. Meh But I still love reading the contributions of (most of) the people here. jj - I think it's a bit disingenuous to put statements in quotation marks and then state "or words to the effect". It's either a direct quote or it ain't. *grumps* Hope 2011 brings us keepers of the flame much happiness and good fortune!

TalkTurkey

6/01/2011adelaidegirl came back! Bring Back Maxine came back! Skelly on the mend! Lyn will return! Janice, welcome back too, hope your little peewees are doing well, and don't they make splendid nests! Professor Dame Hillbilly Feral ("Skelly") Skeleton, TPS, Defender of Scrub Turkeys, sorry to have skimped on your title.

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6/01/2011Folks Apologies for the occasional intermittency of the reCaptcha words; I can't explain why that happens adelaidegirl. A new version of BlogEngine.NET is now available, with which we will upgrade [i]TPS[/i] later in the month. It has many new features, including in-built reCaptcha. We hope it will iron out some of the current problems.

Jason

6/01/2011jj, "Titan Insulations charged over death of worker" http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/titan-insulations-charged-over-death-of-worker/story-fn3dxity-1225983187956 yet for months you told us "the government was responsible" for the deaths! As this is the second employer heading to court apparently the federal government isn't to blame!

NormanK

6/01/2011Unless I'm mistaken, that now makes three of the four deaths which have been acted on in the courts. QHI Installations for the Brisbane death. [quote]Matthew Fuller, 25, died on October 14, 2009, after he was electrocuted while putting foil insulation in the ceiling of a home in Meadowbrook, south of Brisbane.[/quote] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/insulation-firm-faces-court-over-death-of-installer-matthew-fuller/story-e6frg6nf-1225875492850 Arrow Property Maintenance for Rockhampton death. [quote]The 16-year-old boy was electrocuted while installing fibreglass insulation in the ceiling of a home at Stanwell, west of Rockhampton, on November 18, 2009.[/quote] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/news/charge-laid-over-insulation-death/story-e6frg90f-1225885381385 An apology from the Coalition will no doubt be forthcoming in the near future. Thanks for the links of late, one and all.

BSA Bob

6/01/2011Hi to those who gave me a mention over the last few days. About the floods; Looking at a taped ABC News on getting home tonight, I notice that the coalition & their support crew have by & large played all this with a straight bat although we of course await coverage of Mr Abbott's coming adventure. Maybe the plan is to pick the whole Government response apart at leisure, coupled perhaps with the inference that the libs & nats would have arranged to turn the waters around. Anyone wanting to complain would be assured of generous coverage, as usual, & Government response would be under reported, as usual. Plus of course if there's no mileage to be gained from pushing this as a political issue Abbott & crew will say something like "so what?" & ignore the whole deal.

TalkTurkey

7/01/2011The Dismissal and the Grubber You may call me un-Australian, a turncoat or a traitor, Or the coarser, (contradictory!) term for “copulating masturbator”, Because as I will now confess – and I do it with some pride – When it comes to Aussie Cricket, I support the other side! When I was just a wee lad, I lived within a mile Of “The Great” Sir Donald Bradman (now said with sardonic smile), In Kensington, in Adelaide, both named for English royalty, But Australia at Cricket had my own unquestioned loyalty. I don't pretend that I was such a wonder at the wicket, But I had a clear idea of what was, and wasn’t, “Cricket”: If you knew you were ‘out’, you ‘walked’, without a backward glance, And in any game you gave your foes a proper sporting chance. This code of decent conduct wasn't just for flannelled fools: It was central to our culture, in unwritten ancient rules. To protest unfair conditions, it was fair to strike and picket, And many of our best traditions trace their roots to cricket. For chivalry was at the core of Cricket’s conduct code, And rivalry was moderated in a civil mode; You don’t kick folks while they are down, or hit a kid with glasses; Where not wanted you don’t hang around, or make unwanted passes. There were “gentlemen’s agreements” which were very rarely breached; Most preachers (though with grave exceptions!) practised what they preached; And in Parliament, a hostile Senate wouldn’t stop Supply To a Lower House majority, no matter what or why. But two things happened, un-Australian, very deeply felt, That finished Nice Guy decency – two blows below the belt – For both of which I feel I'm not the one who should to be blamed, But so many of my countrymen upheld them, I’m ashamed. You may tell me The Dismissal was from another age, But by the grace of Gough I swear, I do maintain the rage, And Fraser's grubby deal with Kerr and Bjelke, (now in Hell), In the Chappell Brothers' Grubber found a perfect parallel. Perhaps one day I'll write about those shameful acts in verse, When I've stewed and brewed the necessary Venom for my Curse . . . But right now I'll tell it in simple prose because it's so much less difficult and I want it done by today. Lest We Forget the Dismissal of November 11 1975 Whitlam Govt elected 1972, re-elected 1974 with majority of 1 in the Senate Labor Senator Milliner from Queensland died early in 1975. Bjelke-Petersen, (oh sorry Limpy, SIR Johannes Bjelke-Petersen, the REAl Thing Knight!)refused Whitlam's request to replace him with, wait for it, Mal Colston, (later himself famously called by Senator Robert Ray "the Quisling Quasimodo from Queensland" for ratting on the Labor Party for purely mendacious reasons); instead, against Parliamentary usage, and through a tortuous and devilishly clever series of pre-emptive and pro-active manoeuvres Bjelke-Petersen, the evil bible-bashing bastard, appointed the slimy Albert Field as the replacement Senator . . . He claimed to be a Labor man, but immediately made his intention clear, to bring down the Whitlam government. The loss of Labor's working majority in the Senate was used by the Coalition (The same old bloody Coalition eh!) to deny Supply through the Senate, again flying in face of long-established Parliamentary practice, and eventually leading to the Kerr-Fraser coup. Lest We Forget. November 11, 1975. In 1981 Australia was playing New Zealand in a series of one-dayers. Each team had won once. In the third match, Greg Chappell, the Australian captain, was caught by outfielder Martin Snedden when he was on 52, as the fieldsman himself claimed and as photographs confirmed, but Chappell refused to walk, he was given not out and went on to make 90 before being caught by Bruce Edgar, later to score 102 as the not-out batsman at the non-striker's end during the infamous incident that followed at the very end of the day. With just one ball left to be bowled, NZ was trailing by six runs, a sensational situation indeed, with Brian McKechnie, the Kiwi on strike, bracing himself to try the almost unthinkable task of hitting a six off that last ball, to tie the match. Greg Chappell then gave the most disgraceful order of all time by a cricket captain, "ordering" his younger brother Trevor, who was bowling, to bowl a grubber - euphemistically called an "underarm bowl", technically legal, absolutely illegitimate. Just like the Fraser-Kerr coup. Brian McKechnie patted the impossible ball away from his wicket, and walked from the field throwing down his bat in disgust - an act which saw him censured for bringing the game of Cricket into disrepute . . . Australia won the game, but were booed off the field. And ever since then this Turkey has barracked for every other team to play Australia at cricket, the Kiwis in particular. I used to seethe at sledging by any side (but Australia was always the champion sledger anyway) and it was a red-letter day when Shame Warne broke his finger, I'm nasty like that, but really all that's left for me now of the game of Cricket is a lingering feeling of betrayal and loss of innocence. Thanks to the Chappells, now iconic idols of rewritten history. So before you call me traitor to the country of my birth I'd rather live in Australia than anywhere else on Earth, . . . And one day I'll finish this story in verse, with the middle bit filled in. But before the current Ashes series is finally dead buried and cremated I want to say how delighted I am that Australia is finally getting its comeuppance for all the stuff in cricket that has made me ashamed of my countrymen, the sledging and slagging, the refusals to walk, the gloating and self-importance, the outrageous behaviour . . . But just to get it into perspective - it isn't a squeak in my mind compared to the ever-growing roar of rage I feel at the likes of Bjelke, and Kerr, Reith, Howard, Abbortt and all the real traitors to this country, the Rotten Right. But by now I've toppled Jason's 3.57 AM record, sorry Jas(e), dopey Me.

Hillbilly Skeleton

7/01/2011Talk Turkey, You are so like your namesake, Bruce the Brush Turkey. On the job from daybreak each morning! And, unlike Bruce the Brush Turkey, I am so glad you are. :) Generally, and specifically, TT, we are so lucky at The Political Sword to have contributors with creative wellsprings that never seem to dry up! I wouldn't say we are flooded though because you can never have too many creative juices flowing. It reminds me of that period in the 1960s and 70s when you had 'Oz' magazine taking on the world, and in Australia we had the original, and best, 'The National Times'. So witty and irreverant, and with the brilliant Patrick Cook doing the cartoons. Sigh. Actually, that's all we need to make TPS complete, a cartoonist! Anyone out there willing to do it for love, not money? Anyway, even if we don't end up with a resident 'toonist, I feel sure that we here will continue to hold both the Opposition, and the government, and thirdly, the media, to account, in a friendly, not antagonistic, way. We also try to be equal opportunity analysts here. So, onwards and upwards. If Tony Abbott wouldn't take a break over the holidays, neither should we!...Except when one's body tells one to. :(

Hillbilly Skeleton

7/01/2011Talk Turkey, How's this for a little bit of Cricket Karma? It appears 'Warnie' has been cancelled by the Nine Network! Also, there's 3 Aussie cricketers that I would not put into your basket. The Waugh twins and Adam Gilchrist. All fine, upstanding cricketers in the traditional sense of the word. I can still remember the disbelief in the Australian media when Gilchrist gave himself out and walked. Which is the sort of approach I like to think we try and embody here at TPS. If we're wrong, we'll admit it. Good will always triumph over evil, or so I'd like to believe.

Patricia WA

7/01/2011Loved those verses, Talk Turkey! Please finish the poem soon. The parallels between our national cricket team and our national political life are pretty clear when you write it like that. Don't leave it to 'one day' some time in the future. DO IT NOW! PLEASE!

TalkTurkey

7/01/2011Professor Skeleton wrote "Talk Turkey, You are so like your namesake, Bruce the Brush Turkey. On the job from daybreak each morning!" TT replies: No, Skelly, up all night! Crazy! HFS, Patricia WA, thanks for your kind words, they're much more than that though, feedback is what gives us the stimulus to write more, especially when like Patois you dig the spurs in! That "middle bit" is going to take a while though, the convoluted and uniquely poignant circumstances and parallels have to be explained or the point is hazy, and I'm still painting the house! Oh yeah, couldn't TPS use a CARTOONIST !!! Calling all CARTOONISTS! BTW 3 requests to Swordsfolk, I want to know: One, What is the cybergroover word for one's blogname? Two, Those who were around at the time of the Dismissal, did you, as I did, ALWAYS and from the very first, draw that parallel with the Grubber when that happened? I'd really like to know, because it seemed always so stark to me. Three, When you look at the fullish Moon, do you see a face?

Hillbilly Skeleton

7/01/2011BSA Bob, You are absolutely right. It's as if the media go off the Coalition's cues. If the Coalition go 'Meh', the media don't follow up on the government's deeds. If the Coalition get all hot and bothered about something, so do the media. For example, I saw the most outrageous interview last night on the SBS News between Peta Jane Madam and Barnaby Joyce. No matter that his cockamamie argument to put dams here there and everywhere had been totally debunked a couple of days before in the fairfax papers, there he was still pushing that barrow in the interview. All Madam did was facilitate his talking points. Not one sceptical question was asked. She couldn't even make the connection between a flood plain and nowhere to put a dam if a flood of the area occurred, let alone the fact that 'Mr Dams' didn't let out a peep when the Traveston Dam in Qld. was being fought against tooth and nail by the locals. Not only that but he was allowed to rabbit on about the Water Act's insufficiencies, as if it was a creation of the Rudd/Gillard government, saying how inadequate it was by placing too much emphasis on the environment and not enough on the social and economic costs, when it was in fact the Howard government who wrote the Act! The Howard government that Barnaby Joyce was a member of. If the so-called 'professional journalists' in Australia's media can't do better than that measley effort, then what hope is there this year for a balanced coverage of politics?

Hillbilly Skeleton

7/01/2011NormanK, Don't hold your breath for an apology from the Coalition. 'They Don't Know the Meaning of Wrong!' remember? In fact, I imagine they'll still append "...just like Pink Batts and School Halls..." to every second pronouncement they make this year. Again. Because it works.

Jason

7/01/2011HS, I wait with interest as to how "slippery" Scott Morrison reacts to the governments announcement today, that due to the High Court ruling in November 2010 of the two Tamil asylum seekers being held on Christmas Island, what will happen now is " ASYLUM seekers in offshore detention whose claims are rejected will now be able to appeal in the full range of Australian courts, the Federal Government said" http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/full-court-process-for-all-asylum-seekers/story-fn3dxity-1225983516432

NormanK

7/01/2011More than a little tongue in cheek with my expectation of an apology from the Coalition with regard to their "industrial manslaughter" charges against the government. This politicisation of unfortunate (and unnecessary) deaths is what makes the current Opposition truly despicable. The families of these individuals who died have been given the wrong focus for their anger and that can probably never be corrected. I didn't remark on Barnaby's early comments on new dams because I thought it was likely to be a flash in the pan where Joyce was pushing the buttons of people who have suffered under the current floods - vote for the Coalition and we'll fix this problem. But now Abbott has jumped on the bandwagon, despite the whole idea being debunked, this issue has the potential to become a bit more serious. My question for Barnaby would be : "If dams are built as a commercial enterprise by, say, a superannuation fund, what happens during average and below average rainfall years? Would they be compelled to allow water to flow past their dams? Bearing in mind that this is ultimately Murray//Darling water and further resentment by downstream users and damage to the environment will ensue if the water is held north of the border." This is quite apart from all of the points which have been raised elsewhere. It is a massive flood-plain which NEEDS to flood on a regular basis in order to maintain its biodiversity and fertility. Do people who live on known snow-fields complain about the snow or do they build their houses and design their lives in such a way as to accommodate it? Get off the flood-plain or adapt to survive these events! Curiously, prior to Barnaby raising the subject, I haven't seen or heard any of the inhabitants of these towns complaining about the floods as though they were avoidable, Joyce has now given them permission to do so - no matter how unreasonable the proposition.

Jason

7/01/2011Normank, Remember the Traveston proposal! Barnaby from his own blog 14 September 2009 " if approved, condemn Queensland to one of the greatest wastes of public funds, and believe me that’s saying something, in the term of this Labor Government. http://www.barnabyjoyce.com.au/Blog/tabid/59/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/960/LABORS-ENVIRONMENTAL-TRAVESTY.aspx

Jason

7/01/2011Normank, If the Traveston dam wasn't enough for Barnaby to oppose how, does Truss and Abbott now dam building mode and both leaders at a federal level explain this? http://www.robynparker.com.au/news-and-events-new/blogs/nsw-liberals-nationals-oppose-tillegra-dam.html

Patricia WA

7/01/2011Hi Talk Turkey, as 'one of those who was around at the time of the Dismissal' I too will not forget, or forgive. I wrote this a while back and don't have a record of posting it anywhere. Trust you haven't seen it before, if not this one is for you! [quote]Maintaining Rage[/quote] Malcom Fraser - Once you were "Kerr's cur" And still are so for me, Notorious In Australian history For destroying Our democracy. Softer now and Old and grey, Elder statesman, All that evil Gone away? Still you represent For me The worst By which Society is cursed: Patriarchy, Patronage, Benovolence Of a by-gone age, Once denier of My suffrage. Many have forgot Those things. I have not. Even Gough may Have forgiven you. Again I say That I have not.

BSA Bob

7/01/2011Hillbilly Skeleton Thanks for your response to my piece. It worries & enrages me that the media, as you say, respond so diligently to the coalition's cues. Driving to work a week or two ago here in S.A, the 6am ABC News started with "the federal opposition says". The second item began "the federal opposition says". They're going for a hat trick, I thought, but they didn't quite get there as the third item began "the state opposition says". I haven't seen much of Barnaby's ramblings but as I understand it he wants to build bloody big walls (somewhere) to catch any water that may fall (sometime). Is this about it? If so, I hope he's prepared to submit a favourable business plan & cost benefit analysis.

Rx

7/01/2011Hillbilly Skeleton, Re: your appraisal of the SBS 'interview' with Joyce. It's exasperating when the second national broadcaster allows its 'news service' to be used as a propaganda platform of the conservatives. Bad enough when it's just their ABC doing it. To follow up directly with the interviewer in question (excuse the pun), the email format for contacting SBS staff is as follows: christianname.surname@sbs.com.au

Jason

7/01/2011Normank, in reponse to Abbotts "Dams" the Prime minister and Albo have hit back! http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/tony-abbotts-dam-plan-wont-stop-flooding-says-julia-gillard/story-e6frf7jx-1225983697598

Jason

7/01/2011AA, Something for you and others to ponder! The Federal Government is holding a Review into Media Convergence, and is inviting submissions from the public. This is one for people concerned about the dire state of the media to get their teeth into! http://www.dbcde.gov.au/digital_economy/convergence_review/ Terms of Reference The draft Terms of Reference for the Convergence Review aim to highlight the major issues that arise as a result of convergence. These include the value of Australian and local content, diversity of voices, community standards, regulatory certainty, competition and innovation. We encourage you to contribute to the conversation.

TalkTurkey

7/01/2011Poor Gerry Harvey Now lives in an RV He can't afford upkeep on rent; When you Go Harvey Norman You'll find his poor foreman Is raising his kids in a tent!

Acerbic Conehead

7/01/2011FS, Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce are putting their money where their mouths are and have already set up a dam on Barnaby’s property. It’s been raining cats and dogs for days and the highway adjacent to Barnaby’s place has been closed due to the floods. Barnaby and Tones went down to see what’s happening (or not happening, more’s to the point) and come across a few semi-trailers chockers with pink batts. Barnaby: Jeeze, mate...we may as well grab these...they will be washed away if this rain keeps up... Tones: Yeah, mate...are you thinkin’ what I’m thinkin’...heh...heh... [the two entrepreneurs pile the pink batts, one on top of the other, alongside the road and, after a while, they have got themselves a spanking new dam! Already, the ever-flowing waters and persisting rain ensure a build-up of a substantial lake behind it] Barnaby: Well done, Mate...I knew those pesky pink batts would be useful for something...ho...ho...Now, mate, Gillard and Swannie will already have got wind of our plan to set up pink batts’ dams all over Queensland – whaddya think they’ll do to try to thwart us? Tones: Dunno, mate...but we’ll find out real soon...Joe Hockey has already devised a cunning plan and, as I have loaned him my boatphone, we’re sure to get an update soon...hee...hee... [meanwhile, Wing Commander Gillard and Squadron Leader Swann are taxiing their Lancaster bomber on the runway at Amberley Airbase, ready to take off and do a reccie on the Coalition’s dastardly plan to set up a rival NBN (National Billabong Network). However, unbeknownst to them, Joe has sneaked on board, hoping to eavesdrop on the government’s plans and relay them via the boatphone to Tones and Barnaby. It’s a long story, FS, as to how Joe got on board without raising any suspicions. But, in essence, Joe borrowed the burqa that Ban Morrison confiscated off his cleaning lady, put it on, bailed up the hostie in the ladies’ toilets in the terminal, chucked a psycho at her that would have done Kevin Rudd proud, making her run home blubbering, leaving Joe to walk onto the plane, dressed in his borrowed burqa, carrying a big box of pies for morning tea, with no-one batting (no pun intended) an eye-lid!] Jooles [sighing]: Wayne, isn’t it nice to see that the RAAF has an affirmative action plan... Swannie: What, you mean by letting you on to the plane without a handbag...hee...hee... Jooles: Oh, very droll, Swannie...No, I mean by employing a burqa-wearing lady as our flight attendant... [Whilst Jooles and Swannie are discussing the existential and metaphysical pros and cons of women’s liberation in a cross-cultural context, in the dark galley behind them, Joe’s belly is rumbling almost as loudly as the Lancaster’s creaking old engines. He cracks open the box of pies and gets stuck into them. “Yummy...steak and kidney...my favourite”. As Joe munches away happily, the Dambusters reach their target] Jooles: Tally-ho, Swannie...Barnaby’s billabong is coming up – get ready with the Instamatic and take a few pikkies... [behind them, Joe at this stage is as full as Gerry Harvey’s bank account after the January Sales. He is lying up against the fuselage, wondering whether to go for a siesta or not. Suddenly, however, he notices a lever with an adjacent sign that, in the semi-darkness of the galley, he can’t read properly. “Wow”, thinks Joe. “A lever! Maybe its one of those levers I can use to put those greedy bankers in their place!” So, just to see what happens, Joe pulls the lever and soon discovers, the hard way, that the sign reads: “pull lever to open bomb-bay doors”. Joe drops like a stone through the aperture and, true to the law of gravity, heads inexorably towards the waters of Barnaby’s billabong. Meanwhile, down below, Tones and Barnaby are puzzled by the nature of this object that emitted from the Lancaster, hit the surface of the billabong, bounced, projected onwards, bounced again, etc] Tones: Christ, Barnaby – is that a Bouncing Bomb the Dambusters have launched at us? [Barnaby pulls out his binos for a closer squiz] Barnaby: Huh...I don’t know about any BOUNCING Bomb, Tones...that jigger looks more like a frikkin’ BURQA Bomb...RUN! [anyway, FS, to cut a long story short, Joe kept on bouncing until his momentum was curtailed somewhat by colliding with the pink batts’ wall at the end of the billabong, knocking a great big hole in it. As you can imagine, Tones and Barnaby are none too pleased with this Coalition own-goal. Struggling out of the now-receding waters, Joe disrobes from the burqa and sheepishly approaches his two irate colleagues] Tones: And this is another fine pink batts’ hole you have gotten us into, Joe... Joe: Huh...it could be worse – at least it wasn’t one of those great big black holes I got you into before the election...

NormanK

7/01/2011AC Another direct hit! "National Billabong Network" had me laughing out loud. It's the little things in life that make it special. Jason I wouldn't make a media advisor's little finger but I hope they are on to this damn dam thing. It is the perception that Abbott & Co are more caring about flood victims which is the danger. They almost certainly have no intention of acting on this rhetoric given their track record but it is so easy for them to leave the impression that they might. Julia Gillard must jump all over this suggestion and smack it to the boundary instead of knocking it back to the bowler. It's these little battles which the ALP seem to keep losing on a regular basis. Perceptions, guys, perceptions. Incidentally, why isn't Joyce's past reluctance to build new dams being thrown in his face every time he fronts a camera? It defies belief how this populist nonsense gets the milage that it does. The Convergence Review sounds very exciting. Some homework to be done there.

Ad astra reply

7/01/2011Folks What a lot of interesting material you have added to [i]TPS[/i] over the last few days. Any idea of you taking a rest from blogging over the holiday period has gone by the board; for my part, I’m taking a partial break, enjoying my large family of children and grandchildren, and cleaning up a sizable property that has become unruly with long grass, low-hanging branches on the eucalypts and scraggly Hakea bushes. The bonfire is now about four metres high. I’ll come back full steam in early February, but I will be away for about two weeks from mid February attending a medical conference in Cebu in the Philippines, where I will be out of contact with the Internet for much of the time. More of that later. TT You are clever satirist. The linking of Trevor Chappell’s underarm delivery and ‘The Dismissal’ is a nice piece of lateral thinking. Decency is an admirable trait, but rare in politics. Sometimes the Government seems too ‘decent’ in commenting on outrageous suggestions, specious arguments and ill-conceived plans dreamed up opportunistically by the Opposition, and as NormanK suggests, in Ashes style should smack them to the boundary, or preferably out of the ground. Jason I was pleased to see Julia and Albo hitting back; I just wish, like NormanK, that they would hit harder. Patricia WA What a fine addition to TT’s piece you have penned – simple but powerful. AC Your story reflects the implausibility of so many of the Coalition schemes. The ‘damns idea’ is another Joyce/Abbott conjoined thought bubble. It’s not as if damns have never been thought of, but Tones informed us today the damns can hold water for when needed, can be used to generate carbon-free energy, and would be useful in flood mitigation. There you have it - it’s really quite simple, notwithstanding Liberal opposition to recent proposals for building them, just build more damns. When will the media intelligentsia ask him how big a damn would have been needed to mitigate the Queensland floods that covered an area equivalent to NSW, and where would he have put it? There’s nothing inherently wrong with damns; we have lots of them already. But they fit into the complex matrix of water management that has defied all attempts at effective management despite much expert advice. He must know there is no simple solution to harnessing, or at least controlling the forces of nature, yet he suggests to the gullible that a Coalition Committee might sort it out while Labor governments flounder around. No matter what benign reason for the suggestion can be mustered, it looks opportunistic, as usual. Let’s see what eventuates. If nothing does, as I suspect, Abbott will still mark up his idea as another point scored. Jason Thanks for the link to the Government’s Convergence Review http://www.dbcde.gov.au/digital_economy/convergence_review/ It makes interesting reading for anyone concerned about regulating the convergence of the many communications media that now exist. I recommend a read of the background paper, the draft terms of reference and convergence questions and answers. One paragraph stood out to me as a blogger: “[i]Another trend affecting business models is the trend towards the ‘granular’ nature of media consumption; for example consumers can now download songs, not albums; watch specific TV shows on demand and not the linear programming of a channel, and read a single news article through an online search engine, rather than purchase and read the day’s newspaper edition. In the online world the consumer is in the driving seat of their own media and entertainment consumption patterns with more choice and control than ever before.[/i] I noted particularly the sentence about newspapers. Rx, BSA Bob I share your disgust with the ABC and SBS – Little Sir Echos of the Murdoch media, FS Thank you for your diligence attending to [i]TPS[/i] while I take a bit of a break. Your responses are always right on the money.

jj

7/01/2011I think for my pasrt that the idea of building more dams is a good one. Not only are they a proven flood mitigating device but they also store huge amounts of water for later usage, and sustained environmental flows. It was the series of dams along the Murray Darling Basin that prevented areas such as the Macquarie Marshes from going dry through the drought years. Why let gigalitres of water go to waste when it could be used?

Jason

7/01/2011jj, When state Labor in QLD and NSW put the idea up in QLD Barnaby had this to say www.barnabyjoyce.com.au/.../...ENTAL-TRAVESTY.aspxthis and in your state this www.robynparker.com.au/.../...se-tillegra-dam.html

Hillbilly Skeleton

7/01/2011I was gratified to note that one news network tonight, and I think it was SBS, actually, had gone to the trouble of digging out footage of the Anti Traveston Dam protests where Anna Bligh was being heckled by a community hall full of Greens triangular 'No Dams' placard-wielding locals. Of course, if one casts one's mind back to that time, another supporter of the Anti Traveston Dam movement was the Queensland Nationals/LNP. Which just goes to show that Tony Ahh...Butt's latest line about 'Dam Phobia' applies just as much to his party as to his political opposition. However, as he is a political weathervane, what applied yesterday, or last year, doesn't necessarily apply today. It also proves he's a Dam Idiot. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

7/01/2011jj, So, you are for building the Traveston Dam on the Mary River? Or are you just mouthing the Coalition's latest talking points again?

Hillbilly Skeleton

7/01/2011jj, Also, could you please enlighten us on how exactly you build dams across flood plains, and where there are no gorges deep enough to site them in? Do you envisage digging really, really big holes in the ground maybe? As for building a system of weirs and locks, along any river, you obviously have no idea about the interaction between the environment in and around a river, and that river. Did you even study basic geography at school? The physical geography of flood plains. The part about the way they maintain their fertility by periodic flooding especially.

Hillbilly Skeleton

7/01/2011Here's a nice piece from The Drum that cafe Whispers alerted me to today. Ad Astra, you might be especially interested because it's all about the bastardisation of political reporting in this country: http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/42666.html

Hillbilly Skeleton

7/01/2011A very perspicacious comment from the abovementioned Drum article: 'mooksool : 05 Jan 2011 12:54:57pm Thought provoking piece...thank you. I have taught broadcast journalism at a leading Australian Uni...the hardest thing while teaching was to get the kids into recent political and world history...in order to provide them with background, and more importantly, context. Without the knowledge/context to call pollies out over their statements (often self-contradicting) young journo's have to take what has been said as fact, especially if the pollie is a seasoned media performer. Many pollies and journo's now treat this as a game, and the close environment they coexist in (the microcosm that is Canberra) may blur the lines of the professional relationship, and leave us with less than vigorous reporting. Couple this with the facts that the commercial business 'news' model requires fast and constant output, and the adoption of the spin template/model from corporate pr ("if we write their stories for them in their medium's style, they're more likely to publish/broadcast) and you're on a hiding to nothing. When you have little context in a 24 news cycle, all you're left with is who said what and an opinion, essentially a simplified polarised reporting style. A says this. What's your reaction B? A, what's your reaction to B's reaction ad nauseum. So you get lot's of WHAT stories and not many WHY stories...(please see Fox News). This became very evident following the WMD scandal and subsequent invasion of Iraq. There seemed to be very little scrutiny from the mainstream media at the time about the facts in question (as the government presented them). With little context or meaning in our political reporting we are somewhat disadvantaged when it comes to making informed decisions as a body politic. There are a few guiding lights out there providing an alternative view. Hopefully this divergence will continue...and give us all a bit more context. After all, you wouldn't want to be charged with "crimethink".'

2353

7/01/2011SO Abbott (with JJ's consent) is going to build dams. Apart from the LNP/Liberals opposing dams where they may have made some sense in recent history (and I really don't think Traveston was a good spot), my real concern is a a committee of "senior coalition members" will devise the plan. Is there any "senior coalition member" that has the necessary experience and knowledge to actually recognise a good site for a dam? In other words, does Abbott have a couple of engineers in his back pocket? If not - they will have to hire the expertise. Will they hire an engineering firm that has no idea of the issues, find a Liberal Party member who is an engineer or just cook the books (like the election costings) and shove it down people's throats - claiming that it was a thought bubble when challenged for a shread of evidence?

Hillbilly Skeleton

8/01/20112353, Tony and Barnaby and Joe and Andrew and Malcolm and Greggy Hunt will devise a plan of action that will be a mile wide and an inch deep, as the dams on the flood plains will be, and it will evaporate under the intense heat of scrutiny, just like the water in any shallow dam. :)

TalkTurkey

8/01/2011Ad astra said "The linking of Trevor Chappell’s underarm delivery and ‘The Dismissal’ is a nice piece of lateral thinking. Decency is an admirable trait, but rare in politics." Two points Ad: One, did you yourself make that link - the Dismissal and the Grubber ? To me it was always painfully glaringly obvious but I could be wrong, I was once before. (I did always wonder though, that's why I asked at the end of that post.) Two: I have to disagree here. I think that the vast majority of actions by the vast majority of Labor and Greens pollies, and probably even a fair few of those by Coalition members too (say 8%?) are decent and in the interests of their constituents, but of course it doesn't take many party poopers to poop a party. But having had pretty close contact with ALP Members over a long long time I do have a lot of respect for them as a mob, exceptions of course, but of certain individual pollies I think they are the salt of the Earth. I don't think we should tar even a majority of politicians with the same dirty brush though, but I do think there is a Murdochratically-fuelled ruse to bring all politicians into disrepute and so arrogate more power to his empire. His support for Abbortt, if successful, will definitely help that ambition. It will look like Abbortt has won in the short run, but Murdoch will be the winner really. Again.

Hillbilly Skeleton

8/01/2011Next time a Coalition MP witters on about reducing the 'Debt and Deficit' by 'cutting waste and mismanagement', just keep this salient tale in mind: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/opinion/07krugman.html?_r=1

Jason

8/01/2011HS, What happened to the Dam builder jj, or standing up for Gerry Harvey? strangely silent it would seem!

TalkTurkey

8/01/2011This is the 200th Post since December 30th Gratefully acknowledging the service of Professor Hillbilly Feral Skeleton Who wrote the original post "what were you expecting - fireworks?" And who since then has posted No less than 72 comments! You may be all bone Skelly But You are the flesh and blood of "The Political Sword" With thanks from the rest of us. (For whom I confidently presume to speak.)

Ad astra reply

8/01/2011FS Thank you for the link to David Horton’s article in [i]The Drum Unleashed[/i] http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/42666.html It should be essential reading for political reporters. His concluding paragraph reflects his theme: “[i]Have political reporters become merely stand-up comedians with humorous one-liners, or do they see themselves as serving the public interest? Are they going to keep on doing the equivalent of The Guardian celebrity profile with great weight placed on how the subject holds a wine glass or folds a napkin, or will they begin reporting seriously about the qualifications, experience, interests, political beliefs, aims of the people who govern us or wish to do so in future?”[/i] Indeed will they? No, I hadn’t made the link between The Dismissal’ and the ‘Grubber’. That is clever lateral thinking. I take your point about decency in politics. There are many decent politicians who do the best they can for their constituents; I have often contended that individual politicians enter politics to make a difference rather than for their own advantage. I guess my comment was occasioned by the lack of decency so often exhibited by the Coalition leadership when they find it easy and convenient to mouth distortions and sometimes outright untruths to score political points. The issue of more dams is a recent example. It is easy to utter such a plausible idea without qualification and give the impression that if only the Coalition was in power it would all be different. Simplistic solutions, such as more dams, fly in the face the enormous complexity of water management and flood mitigation. Yet the Coalition does not have the decency to make this complexity clear. So I agree we should not tar all politicians with the one pejorative brush, but we certainly should expose the disingenuousness and the deception of statements that fail to reveal the whole picture, all to score a political point or two. The Paul Krugman article in the NYT is a lovely example of the gap between easy rhetoric and stark reality. Let’s see how the Republicans put their slogans into action now that they control Congress. TT You are right - Professor Hillbilly Feral Skeleton has made a magnificent contribution to [i]TPS[/i], particularly over the end-of-year period. She has kept the site going for those who requested that we not have a hiatus. Her diligence in responding to comments is outstanding. We are deeply grateful. Thank you HFS.

2353

8/01/2011Jason, JJ's looking for another thought bubble (or for leadership from LNP HQ). Have a good weekend.

Hillbilly Skeleton

8/01/2011Aw shucks, guys. :) I was born talking the leg of an iron pot, when I wasn't sleeping, and it has ever been thus. So, as I was schooled in politics from a very young age by a grandfather that fought many of the really tough battles during and after the Depression with the Capitalist bustards to get decent pay and conditions for the average working Joe, I have thus been alive to the politics of any and all situations. I also realise it's a constant battle against the forces of darkness who can buy the best propagandists in the world, and who school young talent to go on and become politicians in our parliaments for their cause, as we are seeing only too clearly at the moment, both here and overseas. Thus, as I have been given the gift of the gab, plus a reasonable talent in writing precis of issues and drawing out the salient points, then for so long as the internet remains uncensored(though I worry that the Chinese are showing other countries how to do mass censorship of voices they do not wish to have in the public space), then I will keep contributing my thoughts to TPS. That is, for so long as people are interested in reading them. :) (Though, as per my usual whinge, I would really appreciate it if Bushfire Bill could come back and provide us with the wisdom and humour of his perspective again).

TalkTurkey

8/01/2011 Patricia WA Thank you for your staunch poem "Maintaining Rage". When I see Malcolm Fraser I still seethe with rage and contempt, remembering always his duplicity and low cunning, his treachery and betrayal of the best traditions of Parliament, his supercilious imperious born-to-rule manner while in power, his blubbering self-pity when we got the bastard out, and his sanctimonious self-justification ever since. He broke the heart of the greatest social reformer this nation ever saw, in the giant person of Gough Whitlam, and derailed programs which if they had been seen through would have seen this country at the forefront of Every-Thing. I could go on. It makes me disgusted to see him now trying to weasel his way back into Heaven, and with the approval of his countrymen, by sort of good works and comments critical of Abbortt, at least he got that last bit right but it won't sanctify him. Only one thing could, and he'd have to do it before Gough Whitlam dies too, and that would be to make a full and sorry apology to the nation and of course to the great man himself. Yet for all that, marooned on a small island, I'd far rather have him for sole company than Abbortt, Howard, Reith, the Poodle, or Dog forbid either Bishop!!!(etc) I do think he had what he (misguidedly and presumptuously, but nevertheless)saw as good intentions for Australia, in stark contrast to Howard and Abbortt who have no decency at all. It would seem he really was raised with a sort of noblesse oblige attitude, very much like Shakespeare's characterisation of Brutus in Shakespeare's (historically inventive) play, "Julius Caesar". You like parallels Patois, well yeah, in that telling the high-minded but naive patrician Brutus (yes patrician, Patricia!) is persuaded by his lowlife mates that Caesar is about to become Emperor and end the Roman Republic, and inveigled into participating in his murder. Brutus too gets killed in the end, and Mark Antony his nemesis ends up saying of him, "This was the noblest Roman of them all . . . " for that he only killed Caesar for the good of Rome. Oh yeah. Might have been nice to let the rest of the Romans decide that! Anyway that's how Fraser is trying to portray himself, and while it might be true to an extent . . . .. . ..? .. . NO! NO ! NO-NO-NO-NO-NO ! Not until and unless he apologises, and I want to see copious sad blubbering truly sorry tears. Given that, IF he specifically apologised to Gough, well then alone could I forgive him. And then I could. Grudgingly maybe, but yes. You did include benevolence as one of Fraser's attitudes. Would that Abbortt had some! Oh yes, Patricia WA, I meant to ask, what meanest thou about 'denier of my suffrage'?

Ad astra reply

8/01/2011TT As you have probably guessed, my comments about 'The Dismissal' and the 'Grubber', and about 'decency' were directed towards you; I missed out putting TT at the head of those comments.

Hillbilly Skeleton

8/01/2011A couple more stories that prove conclusively that Abbott's damn Dam 'Plan'(if you could really call it that, as opposed to naked politcal opportunism), has sprung a leak already. Not that we will hear the end of it anytime soon because that's not how the Coalition rolls. They just hammer away at their chosen memes till enough people believe it, correct or not. Gullible people, like jj. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/07/3108654.htm?section=justin http://www.smh.com.au/environment/water-issues/abbotts-dam-plan-springs-early-leak-20110107-19ite.html

TalkTurkey

8/01/2011Ad astra Yes I got that, ta. But anyway in important ways we are as one, the Swordsfolk, and I think that is why I find it so easy and pleasurable to write on TPS, whether replying specifically to one person or making a comment for general consideration; one feels that one is writing for live people to read, not like writing a novel or a collection of verse which may never be read by anyone else, or anyway not for a long time and therefore without the sting of immediacy. And because I know that quite a lot of people, indeed many I hope, will read our posts, it feels multiply worthwhile, and it behoves one to write stuff that doesn't waste (ALL Yous)readers' time. Lurkers may find it easier and more rewarding to make their presence and notions known if they twig this. Here we are talking to people, not just to a void.

Hillbilly Skeleton

8/01/2011Now, here's an interesting conundrum for 'Dam' Tony Abbott. The Mary River is the latest area to have become flooded. As we all clearly remember, the Mary River had a dam proposed for it just recently. The Traveston Dam. Who opposed it? The Nationals/LNP and the Greens. In tandem against the ALP. Now, who will be the first Coalition politician to come out and say that that dam should have been built? *Sounds of crickets chirping* from St George, home town of a certain loquacious bush accountant who thinks he has all the answers about dry continent hydrology. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/08/3108855.htm?section=justin However, I bet there's not one 'journalist' in Australia who has the guts to ask Barnaby Joyce about the hypocrisy of his latest position wrt dams and as it pertains to the Traveston Dam project.

Acerbic Conehead

8/01/2011Thanks, NormanK and AA. Tony’s and Barnaby’s rival NBN (National Billabong Network) is in full swing and the interior of Australia is becoming a veritable inland sea of interconnected dams. However, the grand scheme has run into a bit of a snag. Sing along with Barnaby as he tries to come to terms with a plan that looked like a good one at first glance... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFDOLc7WosA&feature=related :- ( Once us jolly dam-men camped by our billabong Under the shade of a Coolibah tree And we sang as we watched and waited till our billy boiled Who’ll come a daming with Tony n’ me. :- ( Daming with Tony, daming with Tony Who’ll come a daming with Tony n’ me And we sang as we watched and waited till our billy boiled Who’ll come a daming with Tony n’ me :- ( Down came a reffo sailing on our billabong Claimed he could fast bowl like Dennis Lillee Says Tony, “you’ve got a turban and you ain’t got no tucker bag For you it’s Nauru far o’er the sea” :- ( Daming with Tony, daming with Tony Who’ll come a daming with Tony n’ me And we sang as we jeered at that reffo with no tucker bag Who’ll come a daming with Tony n’ me :- ( As we upped the number of dams dug in Woop Woop Down came the boaties One Two Three They were using our National Billabong Network As an extension of the bloody Timor Sea! :- ( Daming with Tony, daming with Tony Never go daming with Tony n’ me We’ll just hang up our shovels and stick to our day jobs And cook up another stunt to get us on TV

Patricia WA

8/01/2011Hi Talk Turkey - [quote]suffrage[/quote] is defined by OED as, among other things, [quote]The casting of a vote; election by voting [/quote]. So he denied my vote, cast for the ALP government which he usurped. Well, of course, we'll never have a chance to choose between him and Abbott and Co. However I think he is responsible for the likes of Abbott and Howard because he showed the Coalition how far you could depart from democratic principles and still get re-elected. So now we have a 'whatever it takes' mentality which is not guided by any sort of decency. If you think you can get away with it, then do it, say it, lie, backflip, deny, traduce, back stab, destroy - whatever. Just win that election. Since November 11, 1985, there have been fewer and fewer true 'liberals' in the parliamentary Liberal Party. You could count them on one hand even a few years back and they had to be very brave in standing up for the really 'right' thing to do, as they did staunchly and often. Remember Petro Georgiou and the 'Wets' - anyone care to name any now?

Bilko

8/01/2011TT Like you I lived through the dismissal and having just arrived from the UK with a naive view that the only democratic way to change the government is by the voters at a general election. I can remember removing computer monitors from the lodge during that period very sad time indeed, since then I could not vote for them even in a one horse race. At that time after 20+ years of straight liberal rule here in OZ they could not relish being in OPPOSITION so to win at all costs became the mantra, even today with the Mad Monk and his cohorts, obviously a view in keeping with Murdoch's philosophy. Which finally brings me to the the cricket I am over the moon with the ashes result loosing and winning gracefully for us old poms is a way of life. I must admit I did not link the two incidents, Australia will never live down the shame of the Chappell incident it is embedded in its history, win at any cost not very sporting. Another similar incident was the elevation of Arnie in California a little different but the principle holds up.

TalkTurkey

8/01/2011Patricia WA said "Since November 11, 1985,there have been fewer and fewer true 'liberals' in the parliamentary Liberal Party." That's 19-SEVENTY-5 Patois, I know it's shocking, more than half one's notional allotted 'three-score and ten' has gone by since The Dismissal, and yet it seems so recent, so ever-present really, because as you say Fraser's legacy lives on and festers in the horror that the Coalition is today. But they are worse, so much worse than their counterparts back then, no honour at all. The almost-decent Petro Georgiou in the Coalition reminds me of the film of that infinitely-tragic last Thylacine, pacing his prison, trapped in a space so incongruous, and now extinct. Almost-decent? . . . Well how did Georgiou ever get trapped in THAT party with THEM?

Hillbilly Skeleton

8/01/2011To tell you the truth, TT, I always associated the Trevor Chappell incident with the concomitant animosity that was being shown at the time by Australians towards New Zealand specifically, led by the nose by the Coalition, of course, because of their wondrous leader, David Lange. He was providing an example of principled governing, which reflected poorly on the Coalition administration, behaving despicably, as they had been. So I think that, with a nod and a wink, the traducing of the New Zealand team at cricket was given the nod, so as to prove we were still better than them, with the convoluted symbolism that such matters encapsulate. Of course, there was no direct phone call between Coalition politician and Australian Cricket Captain, however, as you said, the zeitgeist, the temper of the times set the scene for such a thing to be possible at all.

Jason

8/01/2011HS, On PM last night a man who knows about dams "JAMIE PITTOCK: There's an illusion around dams. PETER GRESTE: Jamie Pittock is a researcher at the Australian National University and a leading authority on dams. JAMIE PITTOCK: You can either build a dam to store water for use, but if the dam is full of stored water it can't catch a flood. If you want to build a dam to catch a flood you have to keep that dam empty and then that doesn't store water. You can't have it both ways. http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3108640.htm Which one will Abbott want?

TalkTurkey

8/01/2011Comrade Swordsfolk, Patricia WA and Bilko in particular, The shame of The Dismissal and the Grubber are woven inextricably into the fabric of Australian history. In a nation that preens itself on being The Home of the Fair Go, and so proud of our sporting acumen, it is so bitterly ironic that we are forever stained by these two incidents. And for a nation that reckons we're so bloody courageous as soldiers in war - (meaning that in times gone by many blokes have NOT had the courage to defy accusations of cowardice, and so enlisted aginst their own better judgment, for WWI in particular)- how pathetic was our response to Kerr's coup! Australians should have gone out on strike there and then, but Hawke said in effect, "Go back to work boys and girls, WE'll sort this out in the morning", a position for which I shall never exonerate him, so we failed to seize the time. Bloody pathetic. But the worst part of all, my countrymen, was that a MAJORITY of YOUS SUPPORTED the Dismissal, by voting that ( * ) in, and similarly, a majority of Yous supported the GRUBBER at the time, according to contemporary polls! How does a true patriot ever come to terms with that? Bilko, Patricia WA, others, glad to know I am no orphan in my feelings. I still want to know of other people who did make a connection between the two events. I always kind of thought they were so similar in implication about what it meant to be Australian that most people would link them. No?

TalkTurkey

8/01/2011And I still want to know of people who do, and do not, see a face in the Moon. And if You do, would you please describe in adjectival terms the EXPRESSION you see there. Please?

Patricia WA

8/01/2011Thanks, TT, pure slip of the finger, as it were! But like all such 'slips' they signify more. In my case I experienced a significant 'dismissal' of my own over principle in 1985! Jason, do you really think being told by experts and having it spelled out as you so clearly have -[quote]"You can't have it both ways."[/quote]- will make the slightest difference to Abbott? He'll want it anyway that's a good sound bite for the latest news bulletin or print headline. Lovelty new three word slogan there for him too. "Build More Dams!"

Hillbilly Skeleton

8/01/2011Patricia WA, Another 3 word slogan to counter Abbott's: 'Dam(n) Stupid Idea'. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

8/01/2011Jason, You could almost say, Tony Abbott likes it both ways! ;)

2353

8/01/2011Quote HS:- [quote] However, I bet there's not one 'journalist' in Australia who has the guts to ask Barnaby Joyce about the hypocrisy of his latest position wrt dams and as it pertains to the Traveston Dam project.[/quote] Probably not but I did :). Also asked if it was a publicity stunt. And as a Queensland resident I expect a considered response. Let you know if I get one - don't hold you're breath - I'm not!

Jason

8/01/2011Here is some humor for the afternoon! our good friends from that august body Catch the fire ministries have found what has caused the floods in QLD and you will be surprised to know that the fault lies with Kevin Rudd! http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/2011/01/08/are-the-qld-floods-the-result-of-kevin-rudd-speaking-against-israel/

Hillbilly Skeleton

8/01/2011Jason, Um, don't Pants On Fire Ministries know that Kevin is a devout Christian, and it's Julia who is the godless one? :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

8/01/20112353, I bet all you get in reply from the not-so-good Senator is a Press Release. :) You know, that's the problem with the Abbott Opposition, they feel as if they always have to have some skin in the game on any issue. Hence, they never know when it might be best to just shut up. Although, I can see the grand guignol plan of Abbott & Joyce now. With their rinky tink little 'Taskforce', after the floods they will have given themselves carte blanche to tour the flood-affected areas to spread their disinformation and sow discontent amongst the vulnerable and recently traumatised. They are truly a devious and downright ugly mob. I'd like to be proven wrong, however I don't think I will be. Btw, I don't remember the Howard government advocating a Dam(n) Taskforce after the massive cyclone that occurred on their watch, in order to catch the torrential rain event in a Barnabybong. :)

Jason

8/01/2011FS, It would seem that pastor Danny needs the NBN to talk with god! his current method has faults

Ad astra reply

8/01/2011FS, AC, Jason, 2353 Thank you FS for your links to the articles about the value of dams. Virtually every expert commentator has cautioned against a rush to build dams. But that is of no consequence to Tony Abbott or Barnaby Joyce. Their aim is to create yet another memorable three-word slogan – you have it FS – Build More Dams. Like all the other three-worders, it sounds plausible, indeed to the unthinking and uninformed seems an obvious solution; it fits with the Coalition’s ‘Direct Action’ image that Abbott likes to portray, and it paints the Coalition and its ‘Action Man’ leader as on the ball, in contrast to his opponents whom he portrays as not knowing what to do and accuses of dragging the chain. It is a slogan sent from Abbott’s guardian angels, angels that sent him ‘end the waste’, ‘repay the debt’, ‘stop new taxes’ and ‘stop the boats’. There is no need for Abbott to explain his slogans or to validate them. Their purpose is not to inform or argue or even suggest an alternative path. The sole aim is to incite antagonism towards the Government, to give the impression of Government incompetence, and to subtly suggest that the Coalition has the answers and can solve such difficult political problems – all the public needs to do is to elect them. As FS suggests the Coalition taskforce is more to give it an opportunity to spread misinformation and keep the blowtorch to the Government that it is about finding a solution to flood mitigation. It’s high time we recognized that facts, figures and logical reasoning are irrelevant to the Coalition’s continuing campaign to undermine the Government and send it crashing into deep hole from which it would take eons to emerge. Let’s not waste our time arguing the stupidity of such Coalition moves as we have seen this week. Logic is irrelevant.

NormanK

8/01/2011Not to be outdone by Vlad (the Impaler) Putin, the Right Honourable Tony Abbott sings Mary Poppins : A three-worded slogan helps the messages go down The messages go down-wown The messages go down Just a three-worded slogan helps the messages go down In a truly spiteful way (Segue) Young folk on pet food and homeless on pittance Old folk on welfare kept meeker than kittens Obsolete frontbench that sits on their rings These are a few of my favourite things God fearing Christians and good Catholic daughters Labor opponents like lambs to the slaughter Policy slogans without any strings These are a few of my favourite things Three word slogans Redneck bogans Make me feel so glad I simply remember my favourite things And then I don't feel so bad Girls in black burquas who won't show their faces Overseas migrants who come from all races Summertime rainfall that floods Alice Springs These are a few of my favourite things White collared cronies and big banks attentive Hard working miners who need no incentive Unmarried students out having their flings These are a few of my favourite things Three word slogans Redneck bogans Make me feel so glad I simply remember my favourite things And then I don't feel so bad (Segue) A three-worded slogan helps the messages go down The messages go down-wown The messages go down Just a three-worded slogan helps the messages go down In a truly spiteful way

Acerbic Conehead

8/01/2011Nice one, NormanK! With such well-aimed verses from you, Patricia and TT, Tones' rediculous three-word slogans are shown up for the tripe they are. Keep 'em comin'!

Hillbilly Skeleton

8/01/2011NormanK, You brought a smile to my face. :) You know you'll spur our other wordsmiths to match you? Which can only be a good thing. To my reverie about TPS resembling the National Review(or was it the National Times?), I can only add that with such sterling contributions of a satirical nature in verse and song, we will soon be on our way to resembling the best years of The Bulletin. :)

Jason

8/01/2011AA, This whole announcement by Abbott and his "Dam" is nothing but a script out of his play book! We have the Prime minister and Premier wondering around the flooded areas doing what they do in times of emergency! authorising what ever needs doing as well as having the media reporting how well your going. We then come to the opposition who at the moment are standing around like shags on a rock, slow news time, slogans are of no use, media isn't really interested because what can Abbott do? So to bring the focus back on themselves He says we need dams, or we need to get over our "dam" phobia! yet on all the available evidence the only ones that have a phobia was the coalition parties in Qld and NSW. I've heard it said you get the government you deserve but what have we done to get this opposition?

TalkTurkey

8/01/2011Skelly said "To my reverie about TPS resembling the National Review(or was it the National Times?) . . . " I think you refer to Nation Review - "The Ferret" - with John Hepworth, "Outsight" on the back page? And the D-notices, in which I started a listing of my own in 1972. I won't tell you what it was right now though! Wanna guess? NormanK On ya Cobber When Abbortt jeers And the Press sneers And with fear I'm gripped I just draw the trusty Political Sword And then I feel E-quipped!

Patricia WA

8/01/2011Brilliant, Norman K! I've been walking around for hours trying to get 'slogans' and 'bogans' to fit into Abbott's three word solutions to everything! Well done! Lovely! Right now we're off to the beach again and we're not even as far as Talk Turkey. In my head so far I have [quote]Three word slogans For Aussie bogans? [/quote] OR [quote]There’s water, water, everywhere, And it makes Mr. Rabbit think - This water could go anywhere. Everyone could have a skating rink! Alongside backyard swimming pools, No sweat, we’ll manufacture ice. We’ll have a special grant for schools Now wouldn't that be nice?[/quote]

colen

8/01/2011This Dam blog is so full of it. One cant imagine the "CR*P" AA you were hypocritical of SIC when he went off topic, what about your LW Luddites. You cannot disapprove of one thing by one person and approve the same thing by another. It's sounds just like "under my Government there will be no ETS". Another Gillard flatulent statement. Looking at the size of her she could send a rocket to the moon on her own. Why cant Abbott go to Queensland to support the people. These are the voters who supported him and almost got him over the line.

Jason

9/01/2011Colen, Is that it? I stagger home at this hour and reply to the rubbish you have posted? yet you turn up every now and then, complain and then disappear? then you ask "Why cant Abbott go to Queensland to support the people?" well old son he can! but as he is the opposition leader what can he deliver??

TalkTurkey

9/01/2011Colon With a name like yours what are we to expect but "flatulent statements"? Pfffffffft! How come we never see any attempt at countering, like, Skelly's point that How ya gonna build a dam on flat flat flat land? Eh? Or Jason's, you got the (impossible) dams full of water, comes another flood, ooooops! Ummmmmm . . . . Let the first lot go! Go where? Errrrr . . . uh . . . STOP THE BOATS! No, er, I mean BRING the Boats, we need 'em! What mugs you RW copulocephalics really are! Luddites? Us? Who wants to stop the NBN?

2353

9/01/2011Quote TT: [quote]Colon With a name like yours what are we to expect but "flatulent statements"? Pfffffffft! [/quote] Damn - beaten. The problem Colen is demonstrated further up in the comments. The LNP can't have it both ways. It can't campaign against dams on the Mary River in Queensland or the Hunter in NSW - effectively because there is some level of popularity for the position and then turn around and after a "thought bubble" by either Joyce (ironically one of those campaigning against the dam on the now flooding Mary River in Queensland) or Abbott who now get publicity by wanting to build dams large enough to hold back the flooded Fitzroy River (which is currently discharging the same volume of water as Sydney Harbour PER DAY into the ocean). There is a obvious failure of logic here. You can't demand additional dams and then campaign against them. As there is a double standard so large you can't jump over it to the LNP's position, it's obviously a publicity stunt as Gillard and Bligh are getting the "good" press. Same with Abbott touring the flooded areas - either go up with Gillard or Bligh or stay away. The only thing Abbott can deliver is the reduction in the need for people to stop doing their disaster management work to "guide" him around - it's about time he delivered at least that.

Hillbilly Skeleton

9/01/2011Colen, 'Another Gillard flatulent statement. Looking at the size of her she could send a rocket to the moon on her own.' Typical Right Wing, sexist, disrespectful bastardry. Why should we take what you have to say seriously? Btw, I was just thinking about all this negative commentary about the PM's physical attributes the other day(and she is but a will o' the wisp compared to Sophie Fatabella), and it occurred to me that if the PM was an American politician shw would probably be getting an extra 1-2% of the African American male vote in the electorate for having such a healthy booty. :) However, you have demonstrated clearly and concisely the arch conservative's preference for women who have a strangulated control over their bodies, like the exercise junkie and increasingly prune-faced Deputy Opposition Leader, with your hateful comments about the Prime Minister's physical appearance. See? I can make those sort of comments about Coalition politicians too. The difference between you and me though, Colen, is that I don't do it as a first recourse. I generally like to concentrate on the policies, and obvious lack thereof, or wafer-thin quality of those that they have, of the Coalition. The fact being that there is so much more material to work with, compared to a cheap shot directed at a politician's appearance. Btw, Tony Abbott's presence in Queensland was beyond pointless because the most erudite comment he could come out with, on the fly, without his behind the scenes media team coming up with something more concrete was, "Heh, heh. You're having to pull up the carpets now I see." Sure, he can offer tea and sympathy if he wants to, but he wasn't even capable of doing that effectively. And, he commandeered vital Defence assets to get him up there to be worse than useless.

TalkTurkey

9/01/2011Dog I love the colourful turns of phrase and well-made points I find daily on this site. 2353 said: ". . . dams large enough to hold back the flooded Fitzroy River (which is currently discharging the same volume of water as Sydney Harbour PER DAY into the ocean). Colon pfffffted: "You cannot disapprove of one thing by one person and approve the same thing by another." Hey seems we agree fundamentally with that! Only thing is, YOU DO! Hypocritical ( * ) ! As 2353 observed: " The LNP can't have it both ways. . . You can't demand additional dams and then campaign against them." (Damn! Beaten! heh heh. Hi5 2353) 2353 also put their nonsense in perspective: ". . . dams large enough to hold back the flooded Fitzroy River (which is currently discharging the same volume of water as Sydney Harbour PER DAY into the ocean)." D'urrrrrrhhhhhh? Great Wall of China be big enough? Oh but that's only one river . . . Dopey RW bubbleblowers! P'ffffffffft!

NormanK

9/01/2011Let's not forget that Abbott and Joyce have delivered a vital ingredient necessary for the proper processing of the grief and heartbreak suffered by flood victims in Queensland and now NSW. The RIGHT to be angry. As one journalist put it last night, with regard to future flood-mitigation infrastructure for Rockhampton, "if the people don't get what they want, the government is really going to hear about it." On ya Barnaby. Thanks Tones. How could we have moved on if we didn't have a focus for our anger, a great emotion for deflecting thoughts away from any lack of personal preparedness or the inability of prayer to move the flood waters into someone else's backyard. Those people who understand the nature of the countryside in which they live are shrugging their shoulders, sucking their teeth and getting on with life one day at a time. They know the benefits of a good flood and that by living, raising herds and growing crops on a flood plain, they are taking a risk. It will be those who insist on the right to settle and live wherever they damn well choose, regardless of risk, who will take up Abbott's baton and try to demand protection. And I'm heartily sick of hearing that this water flowing out to sea is being "wasted". Why is it waste? Because it is not being put to use for humans. Forget about every other critter, large and small, who have for thousands (millions?) of years built their lifestyle around regular floods. Forget about the revitalization of the soil. Forget about the clearing out of creek and river beds by this strong flow of water. I can recall having what amounted to an epiphany late in life with regard to the North Queensland rainforests and cyclones. For a large part of my life, I marvelled at how resilient these forests were, how infinitely well-adapted they were to be able to bounce back after being knocked to the ground, mangled and torn. It is a small mind-shift (and may seem obvious) but the rainforests don't just COPE with destruction. After millions of years of evolution they have come to RELY on cyclones to periodically clear out sections to enable new growth and so for their own well-being they NEED cyclones. So too for floods. It has taken millions of years for the environment to settle on what is a healthy mix for the long-term survival of everybody and everything and in two hundred years we've managed to undo a lot of that good work. Abbott's remark, when considering dams, that "social and economic benefits sometimes outweigh environmental considerations" is going to be a recurring theme over the coming year as the dinosaurs try to justify their existence. Anti-green, pro-commerce. Will we live long enough to hear the proposal for building a sea-wall right around the coast of Australia in order to hold back the rising seas? After all people want to live at the beach and this is their God-given right.

Ad astra reply

9/01/2011colen It’s good to see you back in 2011, but I note you are just as acerbic as in 2010. You sound annoyed when you write: “[i]AA you were hypocritical of SIC when he went off topic, what about your LW Luddites. 
You cannot disapprove of one thing by one person and approve the same thing by another.”[/i] May I explain? This piece is about Wayne Swan’s Banking Package; it was posted on 30 December. Sir Ian was the first to comment. He mentioned alleged bribes in Alcatel-Lucent and NBN Co.’s CEO Mike Quigley’s association with that company. I responded, I thought quite courteously: “[i]Sir Ian 
Try to keep on topic - what has Alcatel-Lucent got to do with Wayne Swan's Banking Package?[/i] Others too could see no relevance in his comments and the author of the piece saw them as an attempt to divert the flow of information from the piece. In the ten days since the piece was posted many events have taken place, most notably the overwhelming floods in Queensland. It is natural that bloggers here, as do bloggers elsewhere, comment on contemporary events that have political overtones as they unfold. So it ought to be no surprise, indeed it would be expected, that the floods would evoke comment. To somehow suggest that I should disapprove of such comments in the way I disapproved of Sir Ian’s off-theme contribution at the very beginning of the comments, is to suggest I ignore all that has transpired since then, and the need for people to comment on those events. Take a look at this blog and all the others and you will see the same phenomenon. That’s the way they function. In this time-context, to say [i]”You cannot disapprove of one thing by one person and approve the same thing by another.”[/i] makes no sense. Regarding Tony Abbott’s intervention in the flood crisis, it is not his showing of concern for those affected by the floods that is in question; it is his characteristically opportunistic approach. Had he said; “The Opposition is one with the Government in providing assistance and support for flood-ravaged communities”, he would have earned applause. Instead, with his comments about the need for Australia to overcome ‘its dam phobia’, and his thought bubble to form a Coalition committee headed by Andrew Robb to investigate the building of further dams, leading no doubt to another of his well-tried three-word slogans ‘Build More Dams’, he has successfully politicized the floods. His intervention suggests that Labor governments have got the issue of dams wrong, notwithstanding Liberal opposition to recently proposed dams, and that Action Man can get it right, as usual. He knows that the existence of the Coalition committee will keep the matter in the public eye, even if it concludes, as have most experts, that dam building is a complex issue, especially when the dams are somehow expected to store water for when it is needed, as they always have, but remain empty to catch flood water when that is what is needed. So if Abbott stuck to showing solidarity with those affected by the floods we would clap our hands; it is his penchant for trying to turn every event, no matter how devastating, to his political advantage that we belittle.

BSA Bob

9/01/2011Briefly; Talk Turkey; "copulocephalic". Never heard that one. With your permission I shall pinch it & use it myself.

NormanK

9/01/2011Grumpy Sunday. While the above post was roiling around in my head like the muddy waters of the Fitzroy River, it occurred to me that this is the theme of the current Abbott-led Opposition and many neo-cons around the world. Whilst it is not quite a three-word slogan, their promise to the electorate seems to be : Day after day. in every way, we will reaffirm your RIGHT TO BE ANGRY. The Right to be angry over electricity prices. The Right to be angry over asylum seekers taking your jobs and living high on the hog. The Right to be angry over government debt, wasteful spending, water management, welfare cheats, public-purse-exploiting politicians, military tribunals, flood waters, food prices, petrol prices, share prices, bank profits and the list goes on. In fact we have Abbott & Co's blessing to be angry about anything we don't like or don't understand. It is our Right. And nothing feeds a good bout of anger like a healthy dose of fear - a stock-in-trade of Regressives (pointed to many times by commenters here and elsewhere). It was recently remarked here at TPS that Progressives seem to have a better sense of humour than those of other political leanings. Whether this is true or not is a good subject for discussion but so too is the premise that the Left of politics (in the modern era) is disinclined to use fear-mongering and anger-management to steer the electorate in a particular desired direction. This Right to be angry is reinforced in our MSM. November 2010 was the month of "is anybody angry yet?" Every day for a week, this question was asked of reporters covering the mine explosion in NZ. Despite the response from people on the ground that the predominant emotions were shock, disbelief and fading hope, the question continued to be asked. Right up until the second explosion when at last we were treated to an angry outburst by one relative who came up with his own conspiracy theory that "the authorities" would now be satisfied because the second blast will forever mask the cause of the first and the truth will never be revealed. No highlight package covering the incident will be considered complete without the inclusion of this emotional outburst from one individual. Within 24 hours of the Cambodian bridge stampede, the question was on lips once again - "is anybody angry yet?" No, shocked, injured and dead but not yet angry. It seems a story has not reached full maturity until someone is angry. MDBA Draft Proposal - who's angry about it? Oh good. Relocation of asylum seekers - anybody a bit grumpy? Oh good. Do editors and producers look at the potential topic of the day and wonder - "who's gonna be angry about this? Right, well grab a cameraman and get it on tape." "The PM just made this announcement - who can we find to disagree with her? Be good if they were a little bit angry and disappointed as well." Fear-mongering has been around for a long time in politics but I wonder aloud whether this promotion of the Right to be angry is a contemporary phenomenon? Either way, it's getting me down. Isn't there enough distrust and ill-will in the world without artificially generating it?

TalkTurkey

9/01/2011Ad astra, What a splendid reply to that Colon! But - What did (?it?) ever do to deserve such consideration? NormanK Your posts today are amongst the best I've seen on this blog. Again, better than THEY deserve. And, they'll never let Logic get in the way. They won't even acknowledge that, e.g., water doesn't flow uphill nor hang around where it's not imponded (accidental mistype for "impounded" but let it stand!)

TalkTurkey

9/01/2011BSA Bob With my blessings Cobber. Goadings, even. There's also ricardocephaly!

Hillbilly Skeleton

9/01/2011NormanK, You have to look no further than Arizona today to see exactly where the Rabid Right's 'Right to be Angry' has got America, with the almost fatal shooting of, what is acknowledged by both sides of politics over there as, one of the nicest people in the American House of Representatives. Her husband is a former Astronaut, ferchrissakes. Yet some barely contained wingnut, juiced up to exploding point on shock jock and Fox News bear baiting, has grabbed his semi-automatic gun and sprayed it wantonly around a group of law-abiding citizens and servants of the public. However, do you know what is really making my blood boil? The bottled blonde media shills on Fox News, and their behind the scenes word producers, have already found a way to blame the Democrats for the shooting of one of their own! Which just goes to prove that the Right in politics, and their facilitators and enablers, have sunk lower than a snake's belly. As power is the drug they are addicted to, and they will do anything to get it.

Hillbilly Skeleton

9/01/2011Might I also remind everyone to watch the history of the White Australia Policy on SBS tonight @ 8.30pm. I'll be interested to see how much blame is placed on the Labor Party, which they deserve for coming up with the policy, but also how much is made of the Liberal Party's lack of desire in repealing it.

NormanK

9/01/2011HS That didn't exactly brighten up my Sunday. What a sad sad world we live in. Guess I won't be moving to the States any time soon. Below is a comment attached to a YouTube video of the initial reporting. [quote] the innocent child is truly a tragic thing, however the gunning down of a member of the most tyrannical and opressive gov that the world has ever seen is heroic and hopefully we see more of it. congress has to know that there (sic) actions have consequences and when they violate the constitution and ruin america they are risking their worthless lives.[/quote] What manner of spoiled brat would ever consider the US as having "the most tyrannical and opressive gov that the world has ever seen"? Perhaps a brief holiday in North Korea or Iran would be beneficial. Or a visit to a holocaust museum. Presumably, he has never heard of Stalin. I haven't found anything from Fox yet but perhaps I don't want to.

Ad astra reply

9/01/2011NormanK TT is right – the quality of your contributions to [i]TPS[/i] is exceptional. I thought your exposition on ‘The Right to be Angry’ revealed profound insight. You have exposed for us all to see, a [i]modus operandi[/i] used repeatedly by the Opposition. Moreover, this instigator of anger deliberately directs it towards authority, and contemporaneously to the Government, which by its very existence must be responsible for any shortfall in people’s expectations, expectations fostered by the Opposition. Even if the electorate is not feeling angry with this or that, it can be whipped up into anger by carefully chosen, well placed words. We must watch this Make People Angry campaign and expose it whenever it appears. I have said before, and I repeat, your contribution to [i]TPS[/i] as an original author would be welcome.

Hillbilly Skeleton

9/01/2011Let us also not forget that Tony Abbott supported Jason Wood MP's call to roll back Howard's Gun Law tightening.

Ad astra reply

9/01/2011NormanK, FS What a chilling demonstration of the fatal effects of anger is the shooting in Arizona, and the YouTube video commenting on the shooting and applauding it. Drawing our attention to the anger issue is salutary, NormanK. We are not the US, but anger here can have devastating effects, even if not the extreme ones we see in America.

Gravel

9/01/2011NormanK I think you really have put a finger on the oppositions game play. The problem now is how to counteract it? TalkTurkey Last year on holiday up a Mallacoota, I with my two little grandsons, studied the moon most nights. I liked the interpretation the littlies put on the face of the moon. One night it was happy next night it was sad, and even winked one night, it was great fun. I will never forgive Malcolm Frazer for what he did in 1975, and held a faint hope for awhile that the courts could do something but nothing came of it. As for cricket, I don't follow it at all but could see the bad sportsmanship of that underarm bowling.

Hillbilly Skeleton

9/01/2011I cincur with you, Ad Astra, that we are not America, and we have, as yet, not reached the crossroads that they reached today. However, as NormanK so candidly and clearly stated, it is the modus operandi of all Conservative politicians these days to fan the flames of hatred and anger in one way or another. Thus, even if we do not yet have as many armed constituents in this country, locked and loaded, so to speak, on the Hate Speech that probably inspired this young man to commit the unspeakably horrific act that he has, then it is only a matter of time before a similar incident occurs here, especially if the Coalition keep practising their own carefully calibrated brand of Anger Speech, and accompany it with a winding back of hard fought for controls over weapons of instant destruction and carnage in this society. We also have to admit, here today, in the light of the tragic incident in America, that we have our own Urgers and Enablers, both in politics and the media, who tread a very fine line with their words, between mere inflammatory rhetoric and incitements to violence. In our own country we have the sad recent history of the riots in Cronulla, inspired, if that is what you could call it, by the incendiary wordsmithery of Alan Jones and his Little Sir Echoes in the Press. This is exactly the reason why 'The Price of Freedom Is Eternal Vigilence'. For do we want to end up living in a society where intimidation and incitement by the verbal bullies, such as by the likes of Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce, and courtesy of their megaphones in our media, becomes manifest on our streets courtesy of their irrational enforcers?

Hillbilly Skeleton

9/01/2011If you wish, you might also like to listen to the words of Progressive American political commentator, Keith Olbermann, about the incident in Tuscon, Arizona today. It's powerful stuff: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/keith-olbermann-arizona-shooting_n_806311.html

NormanK

9/01/2011Ad astra Thanks for your kind words. And TT. Just a couple of thoughts born out of frustration with Abbott & Co politicising every single thing they encounter. I think we can pretty safely predict that we will see more flood victims crying "what about me?" in the coming weeks and it saddens me because, if left to their own devices but given reasonable assistance, country folk are stoic and will look after themselves and each other. To watch yet another portion of the population being poisoned by this nonsense is depressing. It will be my personal task to watch and document every time the Coalition fan the flames unnecessarily. FS Thanks for the Olbermann link. That speech should be beamed around the world into the lounge rooms of every English speaking country. Is it actually possible that something good will come out of this tragic event? I'm skeptical but the opportunity is there.

Ad astra reply

9/01/2011NormanK, FS The [i]Huff Post[/i] article is salutary. It looks like Sarah Palin is already being pinged for inciting violence with her ‘reload’ comments. This may be the end of her. Julia Gillard did well on the flood appeal this evening. She spoke well and was applauded.

TalkTurkey

9/01/2011NormanK While I agree with much of your 'epiphany', and wish I could agree with all of it, I must point out that while the life-forms have indeed evolved over vast time to cope with and yes flourish from the effects of periodical floods, where the natural system has broken down is that by the clearing of native scrub and forest, overgrazing by hard-hoofed animals, monoculturing crops such as cotton, deliberate levelling of topology for rice paddying, redirection and alteration of watercourses, and all the other buggerup we've managed to subject this poor abused wide brown land to, we have irreparably altered what the lifeforms have evolved to deal with, to the extent that they cannot cope nowadays, entirely due of course to the whitefella belief that it's all for us to use any damn or dam way we wish. (Whew, all one sentence!) Time was that water would be absorbed by the soil-holding root systems of the huge biodiversity of vegetation that used to be here, and would have to meander in swamps which are now dust/mud bowls. What should be done? Don't ask me! But if Humanity can't see its future going the same way as our topsoil, if we go on breeding and extnding our longevity too, well, why should our darling planet continue to support us? Answer: It won't. But ask just about any big pastoralist or agriculturist and they'll tell you to shut your tree-huggin trap, they know best and you don't know nothin and you should stick to your lattes and lick their ( * ) for growing our food or we'd starve and yuddudda yuddudda yuddudda. I hate what's happening to them too and especially I despair of what must have happened to the native wildlife in that vast flooded area, but you can't, never have been able to tell big landowners anything, they know it all. Gravel, lovely to hear from you, thanks for your info about your perceptions of the Moon's facial expression, I still want to hear from other folk to to find out if (a) they see a face at all and (b) how they perceive its expression if so.

Hillbilly Skeleton

9/01/2011Talk Turkey, I don't see a face in the moon. I am a scientist. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

9/01/2011NormanK, Dylan Ratigan has been expressing similar sentiments to you. Maybe, if the Right, and their facilitators and enablers in the media, allow it, we might be able to use this incident as an inflexion point in politics. Somehow though, I doubt it. They have too much to lose. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dylan-ratigan/a-destructive-crossroads_b_806276.html

TalkTurkey

9/01/2011Watching SBS, thanks Skelly, re the White Australia Policy (WAP) Things were seen very differently then, no excuses but they were. Here's what A.B.(Banjo) Paterson had to say at the time. Hope I'm not breaching anyone's copyright, it's in the public domain so I guess not. Look in particular at stanzas 5 and 6. ********************************************************************* A Bushman's Song I’M travellin’ down the Castlereagh, and I’m a station hand, I’m handy with the ropin’ pole, I’m handy with the brand, And I can ride a rowdy colt, or swing the axe all day, But there’s no demand for a station-hand along the Castlereagh. So it’s shift, boys, shift, for there isn’t the slightest doubt That we’ve got to make a shift to the stations further out, With the pack-horse runnin’ after, for he follows like a dog, We must strike across the country at the old jig-jog. This old black horse I’m riding — if you’ll notice what’s his brand, He wears the crooked R, you see — none better in the land. He takes a lot of beatin’, and the other day we tried, For a bit of a joke, with a racing bloke, for twenty pounds a side. It was shift, boys, shift, for there wasn’t the slightest doubt That I had to make him shift, for the money was nearly out; But he cantered home a winner, with the other one at the flog — He’s a red-hot sort to pick up with his old jig-jog. I asked a cove for shearin’ once along the Marthaguy: “We shear non-union here,” says he. “I call it scab,” says I. I looked along the shearin’ floor before I turned to go— There were eight or ten dashed Chinamen a-shearin’ in a row. [TT notes: This last line has usually been sanitized latterly, to "There were eight or ten non-union men . . . " Now check out the NEXT two lines! He didn't mean literally, he meant that the union men were afraid that the Chinese would undercut the Union movement, but it has a bad look today. ] It was shift, boys, shift, for there wasn’t the slightest doubt It was time to make a shift with the leprosy about. So I saddled up my horses, and I whistled to my dog, And I left his scabby station at the old jig-jog. I went to Illawarra, where my brother’s got a farm, He has to ask his landlord’s leave before he lifts his arm; The landlord owns the countryside — man, woman, dog, and cat, They haven’t the cheek to dare to speak without they touch their hat. It was shift, boys, shift, for there wasn’t the slightest doubt Their little landlord god and I would soon have fallen out; Was I to touch my hat to him? — Was I his bloomin’ dog? So I makes for up the country at the old jig-jog. But it’s time that I was movin’, I’ve a mighty way to go Till I drink artesian water from a thousand feet below; Till I meet the overlanders with the cattle comin’ down, And I’ll work a while till I make a pile, then have a spree in town. So, it’s shift, boys, shift, for there isn’t the slightest doubt We’ve got to make a shift to the stations further out; The pack-horse runs behind us, for he follows like a dog, And we cross a lot of country at the old jig-jog. *********************************************************************

TalkTurkey

9/01/2011Professor Skeleton said "Talk Turkey, I don't see a face in the moon. I am a scientist." Heh heh . . . So . . . being of scientific turn of mind meself . . . I can't help wondering what that little yellow thing is just after your post . . . Pizza with 2 olives and 1 anchovy? Go & take another look Skelly, just for fun. See I can't see how anyone can't see that face but I know some don't. I feel a bit sad for yous, because if you don't see the Man in the Moon, what other pretty things are you missing? - But thanks Prof., I wonder how many do and how many don't. Same with the Dismissal and the Grubber, I always assumed that most people saw the parallel, but it seems most didn't, that's why I ask. Perceptions vary infinitely it seems. Like with food, some say Yum, some say Yuk as my brother says. Anyway I love Moon Man and his facial expression. Anyone else comment pls? I see it as a wondering sort of look, perplexed, almost dismayed, and I can't say I'm surprised! Mercury does the same with relation to the Sun, btw. I don't think anyone has a real explanation as to how or why this has happened with these two bodies. Scientists included!

Hillbilly Skeleton

10/01/2011Lots of thoughtful commentary, things that we have all been thinking but have had not enough concrete evidence to enunciate confidently, are now being said clearly in the wake of the shooting of the American Congresswoman. This is by Marty Kaplan, who heads the Norman Lear Centre at USC: 'For years, the language of sports has dominated political journalism, and discourse about hardball and the horserace and the rest of the macho athletic lexicon has been a factor in the trivialization of our public sphere. This has helped dumb down democracy, making a serious national discussion about anything important too wonky for words. I know politics ain't beanbag. But words have consequences, rhetoric shapes reality, and much as we like to believe that we are creatures of reason, there is something about our species' limbic system and lizard brainstems that makes us susceptible to irrational fantasies.'

Hillbilly Skeleton

10/01/2011I'm wondering how Mr Murdoch feels tonight? If he has a sick feeling in the pit of his stomach? If he doesn't, he darn well should. He has sown the wind, and he should be realising that he is beginning to reap the whirlwind. Rightly so. He has a lot to answer for.

2353

10/01/2011Watched ABC Breakfast this morning for about 10 minutes (looking to see latest on flooding). Jill Singer was doing the "in depth" talking head on the media and drew out a couple of points regarding the politics of hate inciting the shooting tradegy yesterday. Apparently the New York Times also ran with the Palin and hate angle - also mentioning that some spokesperson from the NRA (National Rifle Assn) claimed when Obhama was elected claimed that while the politicians thought they ran the country, the reality was the gun owners do. Question to ponder - does Murdock, Palin, the Republician Party leadship and the NRA have blood on their hands?

TalkTurkey

10/01/2011NormanK Your "RIGHT TO BE ANGRY" comment turned out to be astonsishingly imminently prescient given what's happened in Arizona eh! Still we're OK in Australia, it can't happen here.

Ad astra reply

10/01/2011Folks The link provided by FS to a [i]Huff Post[/i] piece by Dylan Ratigan of MSNBC’s [i]The Dylan Ratigan Show[/i] (which analyses financial and economic matters) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dylan-ratigan/a-destructive-crossroads_b_806276.html is well worth a read. It indentifies a ‘power class’ and a ‘passive class’ in American politics and the anger and frustration that the tension between them generates, and suggests how the destructive dominance that has resulted might be addressed. NormanK, you will find much of Ratigan’s analysis congruent with your views.

TalkTurkey

10/01/2011Swordsfolk, I don't know what happened in my post of January 9 2011 11:23 PM but a bit went missing, making the last sentence incomprehensible. It should have gone like this: As printed: "Anyway I love Moon Man and his facial expression. Anyone else comment pls? I see it as a wondering sort of look, perplexed, almost dismayed, and I can't say I'm surprised!" Then it should have read like this: 'BTW the people in the Northern Hemisphere see a different face in the Man in the Moon. But whichever face one sees, it is always the same face, for the Moon has kept the same side turned to the Earth for all recorded history. (Though it's changed about 5% since Ancient Rome I understand.) This may seem unremarkable until one realises it's actually not unmoving, but rotating at PRECISELY one rotation per 24 hours in order to keep watching us.' Then that last sentence makes sense: "Mercury does the same with relation to the Sun, btw. I don't think anyone has a real explanation as to how or why this has happened with these two bodies. Scientists included!"

Hillbilly Skeleton

10/01/2011I hope people don't mind me posting links to the articles about the Arizona attempted assassination of a Member of Congress, and the murder, among others, of a Federal Court Judge. I think it is salient to our country, not because we are lock step with America in our approach to guns, but because we were beginning to head down that road as recently as the immediate past, with Tony Abbott's support of Jason Wood MP's call to weaken the Gun Control Laws brought in by John Howard, and due to the rise in prominence of simulacra organisations and political parties in this country, such as The Shooters Party. You can't get more obvious in your statement of intent than that. Now, the members of that party may say that they only advocate for recreational shooting, however it is not that that is not the case, it is more a case of a tone issue. As what you find occurring is that the constant injection of a gun perspective into the political conversation, and in general, changes the tone of the dialogue between the people, their representatives in parliaments, and the society generally. Also, as the members of these particular political parties achieve successful outcomes for their cause, they see it as a notch on their belts, so to speak, and it emboldens them to go for more concessions from our parliaments for their cause. They don't seem to me to know when to say, "Enough is enough." So, I think that we should use the opportunity presented to us by the Arizona attempted assassination of a Member of Congress, and the shooting of the Federal Judge(which has also happened in Australia, btw), to strengthen our resolve to push back against the forces in this country, a lot of whom get their inspiration and succour from their brethren in the US, who would want to impose on our generally peaceful society the sort of invidious gun culture, by insidious means, that is all-pervasive in America today, and the resulting horrible potentialities that it would introduce to our society. There are too many illegal guns in our country, as it is. We don't want to overlay a plethora of legal guns on top of that.

Hillbilly Skeleton

10/01/2011Here's a British perspective on the Mach culture in politics generally and its inevitable consequences: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jan/09/giffords-shooting-palin-guns-gender

Hillbilly Skeleton

10/01/2011Aaaarrrggghhh!!! That should have been 'Macho'. *Shuffles feet embarassedly*

NormanK

10/01/2011TalkTurkey I take your points about the reshaping of our landscape altering the behaviour of our river systems. I should never, would never, presume to have a detailed understanding of topology and hydrology and so forth. I guess the main thrust of my remarks was aimed at refuting the idea that water which floods the lower reaches of a river plain and ultimately runs out to sea is water wasted. There was a woman at one of the MDBA town meetings bleating to the cameras that water which was allowed to flow down to the lakes just sat there evaporating and "going to waste". I'm a fairly empathetic and sympathetic guy so I can see that if you are a farmer//grazier looking out over your fields which have become dust-bowls and then you see TV images of huge flows of water rushing out to sea, it would be understandable to be envious. But it doesn't take a huge leap to understand that the lower reaches of a river and the mouth and the surrounding sea are also relying on occasional big flows to replenish, refresh and clean the system. Perhaps their imaginations only extend as far as the coastline and they can't picture a huge plume of fresh water (packed with goodies) extending miles out to sea. I live more or less at the mouth of the Burdekin River and since the building of the dam, the once mighty delta (largest in the Southern Hemisphere) has become clogged with river sand. What was once a boom and bust system has become a boom and trickle where a relatively small quantity of water is allowed to meander downstream almost constantly. I am hopeful that after last year's big wet which kept the dam full and this year's deluge coursing over the spillway that a bit of dredging is taking place as I write. Personally, I'm no big fan of mangroves - they stink, they're full of sandflies, mosquitos and these days crocodiles - but they are the filters, the hatcheries and nurseries of our coastal systems. Dams damage these bio-systems in ways which we are only now beginning to realise. Is it a fair price to pay, in order to grow rice and cotton in the desert, that our coastal fish stocks (and who really knows how much further afield it affects) are depleted to the point of being threatened? I know I'm preaching to the choir but I thought a bit of clarification was required. I wish I shared your optimism with regard to "it can't happen here". All it takes is one person (statistically male) and one gun (statistically semi-automatic). Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt and their ilk are entirely capable of pushing just the right buttons to trigger (sigh) just such an event. Here's an example of how it could work. Gerry Harvey comes out and says that buying goods from overseas on-line sources is "un-Australian". The Gillard government is not inclined to re-write the GST rules to discourage the practice. A shock jock draws a direct line between government inaction and un-Australian behaviour. Passive verbs become active verbs and before you know it Julia Gillard, the individual, is undermining Australian values by promoting un-Australian activities. The solution to the problem and the restoration of good ol' Australian values is to get rid of Julia Gillard. FS Keep the links coming. This may well prove to be a watershed moment in contemporary politics but as one commenter at The Huff Post remarked - nothing much changed after JFK. Or Martin Luther King Jnr. Or Bobby Kennedy. But we live in hope. I am looking around at Jason Wood and his attitude to gun laws so if you have a few juicy links on your clipboard, they would also be appreciated. Raining in North Queensland. What a surprise.

NormanK

10/01/2011How sad is this? From FS's link to The Guardian article above : [quote]Nine-year-old Christina Taylor Green was one of the six people killed in Saturday's shooting. The young girl – born on 9/11 – was at the "Congress on your Corner" event because she had just been elected to the student council and a neighbour thought she would enjoy seeing politics in action. Christina's uncle told the Arizona Republic that she loved activities "from ballet to baseball".[/quote] "Politics in action". Second Amendment style.

Hillbilly Skeleton

10/01/2011NormanK, Your wish is my command! :) http://guncontrol.org.au/2010/08/tony-abbott-the-liberal-party-and-gun-fanatics/

Hillbilly Skeleton

10/01/2011You know, I was just doing some off the top of my head figuring wrt the Dam Abbott/Joyce proposals for dams everywhere. Now, as has been widely reported, at least 1-2 Sydney Harbours are going through Rockhampton and out to sea, every day atm. So, does that not mean that the dam on the Fitzroy River would have to be at least as big as a Sydney Harbour or two to soak up the water? Daily? If not, would not that water just overflow the dam and flood the town anyway, if maybe 1-2 days later than it otherwise would? Not to mention the concomitant environemntal consequences of dams that NormanK has outlined above? For basically no good reason. jj, correct me if I am wrong. :)

adelaidegirl

10/01/2011Hi TT, I could never see the Moon Man until I travelled to the northern hemisphere. On an overnight ferry travelling to the island of my husband's birth, we had a glorious full moon (a special omen as he had not seen his sister for 22 years!) and *kapow*, there he was; the jolly old fellow that I'd read about in my children's books. It was a very exciting moment! I took him to have quite a jolly, Santa Claus-y expression but with a hint of smug and a soupcon of something not nice behind the eyes. Now that I know what I'm seeing, I find I can see him back home by tilting my head about 45 degrees to the left. Also, the full moon does appear bigger in the north.

Ad astra reply

10/01/2011Folks A pattern of comment about the Arizona massacre is emerging among political commentators. The conservatives are running the line that it is the act of a deranged individual, acting alone, and with a documented past history of radical views and strange, and at times unacceptable behaviour. When asked if the vitriolic rhetoric that now characterizes political discourse in America might be a contributing factor, there is not just denial but insistence on the right of free speech. When asked if that means one can say anything one likes even if untrue, even if it evokes anger and aggression, the reply is that freedom of speech is sacred and ought not to be curtailed. Any suggestion that moderation in language might be legislated is pooh-poohed; any suggestion that individuals ought to moderate their own rhetoric so as not to incite anger and violence is brushed aside. There was an attention-grabbing discussion this morning on ABC radio 774 Melbourne on this issue. A speaker for the Tea Party used these lines. US TV and radio commentators cautiously did the same. One said there was a view that Sarah Palin was being unfairly targeted with criticism for posting on her website Democrat electorates to be targeted, marked with a cross hair, and her instruction to ‘reload’. While no doubt her words were intended to be metaphorical, these commentators gave no credence to the possibility that such rhetoric might be inflammatory and could precipitate radical thoughts and action in the mind of someone mentally disturbed or psychotic. It was noteworthy that among the panel being interviewed on the ABC, it was Bronwyn Bishop who insisted that freedom of speech was paramount and when confronted by the moderator with the suggestion that calling a government illegitimate might provoke unwanted radical action by its opponents, she defended the right to do so, insisting that the NSW Labor Government was illegitimate and that people had the right to say so. Of course it is not illegitimate, it is incompetent, but the right to call it illegitimate when that is not the case was approved by Bishop under the cloak of ‘free speech’. Annabelle Crabb seemed somewhat taken aback at the implication that anyone could say what he or she liked whether or not is was true, whether or not it provoked dangerous discord. Take a look at today’s [i]Huffington Post[/i] http://www.huffingtonpost.com and in particular at Amanda Terkel’s account of the Arizona tragedy http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/clarence-dupnik-arizona-sheriff_n_806440.html Here is a sample of what she wrote: “[i]Some of the most pointed comments in the wake of Saturday's tragic shooting in Arizona regarding the dangers of vitriolic political discourse have come from Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who said his state has ‘become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry.’ As a consequence of speaking out, Dupnik is now coming under attack, with a talk radio host even calling for his resignation. "When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government," said Dupnik at a press conference Saturday. "The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry." “Although Dupnik has since been embraced by many observers -- there's a ‘Clarence Dupnik is My Hero’ Facebook page, and MSNBC's Keith Olbermann called his comments ‘extraordinary’ -- others are not so pleased. In an interview with CBS's ‘Face the Nation’, Sen. Jon Kyl (Rebulican-Arizona) said Dupnik's comments were inappropriate and nothing more than ‘speculation’.”[/i] Dupnik made what sounds like an unassailable point: “[i]People tend to pooh-pooh this business about all the vitriol that we hear inflaming the American people by people who make a living off doing that. That may be free speech, but it's not without consequences."[/i] For their part, some Democrats have been quick to finger the likes of Sarah Palin and draw the inference that she has somehow provoked the actions of the assassin with her ‘cross hairs’ images and ‘reload’ rhetoric. We may never get to know the complex mental processes that went on in the assassin’s mind; indeed they may be unknowable to anyone, even the gunman. But to pass off this incident as simply the actions of a madman, to refuse to acknowledge the possibility that the poisonous language that infects US politics has no relevance to this episode, and to argue that the right of freedom of speech overrides the nature of what is said no matter what dangerous effect it might have on civil order, is a recipe for chaos and lawlessness. We can but earnestly hope that this is an American phenomenon made easier by its lax gun laws, and that it will not happen here. But those in this country who indulge in inflammatory talk, those who show disdain for the truth, those who have little regard for honesty and decency, ought to pause for a moment and ask themselves how they would feel if what comes so easily from their mouths and pens precipitated a similar tragedy here.

Jason

10/01/2011AA, I also heard Bronwyn say that and thought what ....? Now we have corrupt elections do we? and as yourself Normank and HS have written America is a funny place, that said I must confess I was asleep during the health reform debate in the US but could someone give me a simple explanation as to why Palin and the Tea party hate it? Further to what you have written Michael Moore Tweeted "If a Detroit Muslim put a map on the web w/crosshairs on 20 pols, then 1 of them got shot, where would he b sitting right now? Just asking." http://www.michaelmoore.com/

Hillbilly Skeleton

10/01/2011Ad Astra, Well said. You are correct to point out the weazely way that the Republicans in the US and the Coalition in this country are trying to get out from under the responsibility for inciting acts of this nature, acts which may well be those of 'a deranged individual' but whose deranged acts are inspired by?... Anyway, I found an entertaining exposition of this situation in the following article by another one of 'The Young Turks', Tina DuPuy: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tina-dupuy/at-least-stand-by-your-fr_b_806415.html And, thank goodness America also throws up eloquent spokespersons for the anti-Regressive and irrational, ie Progressive and rational side of politics. :)

TalkTurkey

10/01/2011NormanK said '(TT) I wish I shared your optimism with regard to "it can't happen here".' TT says Ma-a-a-ate! I wish I shared my optimism!!! I was quoting some lyric by Frank Zappa, it's just a tongue in cheek comment. Of course it can happen here, it HAS happened here and of course we have poor insane murderous Martin Bryant to prove it, and he holds the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP at this sort of thing. As a Croweater sure I sympathesize with the flood victims, especially the poor, but I must say that's more than riversiders on the Lower Lakes (Alexandrina and Albert) in my State have ever received from the Eastern States, Qld and Vic in particular, poor SA has been starved of water until the Murray literally died not long ago. That is, very similarly to the case you cite, the ocean level was 'way higher than the fresh water, a disastrous situation which will never be fully recovered. I don't hear anybody else game to say that because though a lot of people are thinking it, they are TOO polite and sympathetic to say anything right now; but you know me, I am nasty enough to make the point on their (our) behalf. Queensland cotton and rice growers in particular have been uterly intransigent and arrogant about nearly all the water being theirs by right, it is a sad but poignant pun to say they have been getting a poetically-just 'comeuppance', but of course it is always the poorest, and least-responsible-for-the-situation people who suffer the worst. "Bloody Gillard should be shot for not having stopped the rain!" H'mmm. Yes it could happen here. I remember Arthur Calwell as ALP Leader being shot in the face at close range with a sawn-off shotgun, he wasn't killed but he looked bloody awful, in both senses of the adjective. On a small positive note: the Murray is flowing again, and after some six years the estuarine-breeding Coorong Mullet is back, delicious eating, and a staple for everything from humans through pelicans and shags to sharks and predatorial pelagic fishes. Would you believe, I just today bought some little hooks and fishing tackle for the first time in ?30+? years, I'm gonna go down there and get amongst 'em meself, well I talk big anyway. But anyway NormanK I'm with you 100% in attitude, "Don't you worry about that!" Without that plume of fresh water now going out to sea, the species would die, and with it the wading birds and so many other interdependent species. The Narrunjeri people, amongst whom I have a few cobbers, have depended on Coorong Mullet since the Dreamtime. adelaidegirl, good to hear from you (knew it all along you were there!) and delighted to hear you had fun with Mr Moon. You "took him to have quite a jolly, Santa Claus-y expression but with a hint of smug and a soupcon of something not nice behind the eyes." Reminds me of "Bad Moon Rising" by Creedence I think. I like him though, with his bemused expression as I see it. Btw the angle you need to see him best changes through the time of night and year. Skelly? Have you taken a fresh squiz at him? Adelaide, I am proud you're doing The Sword proud! adelaidegirl Jason and BSA Bob, (and hem hem yours truly), one day we must arrange an eyeball, as we used to call it on CB Radio. You all sound groovy.

NormanK

10/01/2011Ad astra A very good summary. Not too heavy on the blame game since we don't know all of the facts of the matter yet. But if you build a hot-house, flowers will bloom. I'm not a particularly vindictive person but when someone like Palin who uses lies, deceit and "perceptions" to make her way through political life is caught up in her own web, I do feel a little better. The perception train has left the station and her cross hairs web-site will be forever linked to these shootings. So too the expression "reload". It will hang around her neck for the rest of her career and dam fine thing I say. The excuse that this is just some crazy guy is disingenuous at best. They might as well say that "we didn't think anyone would actually BELIEVE our rhetoric". There was another Huff Post article I read today (and now I can't find it again) which listed percentages for things Republicans believe about Obama. I shouldn't paraphrase too much so I'll limit myself to saying the author found that a significant percentage believed (variously) that he is a Muslim, he is a terrorist committed to handing the US over to foreign powers or a world power, he is a rabid socialist and//or that he is an anti-white racist. Bad enough that people might SAY these things, or THINK these things but to actually BELIEVE them is the truly scary part. This is why it is irrelevant whether this particular individual is mentally unstable or not. Plenty of supposedly mentally stable US citizens believe Obama is a racist terrorist Muslim seeking to undermine the Constitution and sell them down the river. They have the right to bear arms (concealed if you like in Arizona) (don't forget to bring it to church) and a moral responsibility, nay DUTY to bring down this Obama government and save the nation. If it wasn't this nutter it would have been another one. If it wasn't this politician it would have been another one. It seems the game has all become a bit serious now.

Ad astra reply

10/01/2011FS Thank you for the link to Tina Dupuy’s [i]Huff Post: At Least Stand by Your Free Speech[/i] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tina-dupuy/at-least-stand-by-your-fr_b_806415.html which is very revealing of the sort of person Sarah Palin appears to be. Taking down her ‘cross-hairs’ image from her website without comment was despicable. Jason The health care debate was very complex and I haven’t enough data to expound. There is brief mention of it in the Dupuy piece. What it did do was to entitle some forty-million poor Americans to health care that had hitherto been denied them. To rescind that legislation in its entirety would push them back to where they were – no health insurance and difficult access to health care of any kind. NormanK I can’t clearly remember the figures either, but my memory tells me that 40% believe Obama is a Muslim. If you find the link to the stats, please post it. You are so right in what you say in your conclusion. Everyone should read it.

NormanK

10/01/2011Good old History on the web browser. It was a Guardian article. [b]Giffords shooting: an act of political violence in a polarised country[/b] [quote]After all, if Obama truly were a foreign-born, white-hating terrorist sympathiser who has usurped the presidency, drastic action would make sense.[/quote] http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/09/giffords-shooting-political-violence-polarised?intcmp=239

Hillbilly Skeleton

10/01/2011All this talk about Obama's illegitimacy wrt the American Presidency reminds me of Abbott's constant refrain about the Gillard government's 'illegitimacy'. He even said it was an 'Illegal' government at one stage, but was very quickly pulled up on that one. Finally, of course, there is the Coalition's constant refrain about 'Illegal Boat Arrivals', when, of course, they are entirely legally allowed to arrive here as Asylum Seekers by boat, or even on surfboards for that matter. Anyway, the incident in Arizona, plus it's parallel verbal attack track here in Australia reminds me of the old truism, 'Words can be bullets'.

Rx

10/01/2011The Coalition whine that Julia Gillard is not a "legitimate" PM ... it's got the tone (pardon the pun) of the Tea Party's ridiculous claims that Barack Obama is a Kenyan, a Muslim etc. Conservatives see, conservatives do.

Ad astra reply

10/01/2011NormanK Thanks for the link to [i]The Guardian[/i]. Not only are the stats regarding people's beliefs about Obama astonishing, the video at the end is frightening. I'm packing it in for the night.

NormanK

10/01/2011Hey Barnaby! The people of Toowoomba want to know just how big those dams were gonna be. That big huh? Oh but you've gone to Plan B? You're gonna pipe it to Nauru? So they can grow hydroponic lettuce? On ya Joycie! Do you reckon they might appreciate a bit of cheap labour? Yeah well, there's a lot of it drifting around out there, ya know.

Hillbilly Skeleton

10/01/2011NormanK, Barnaby's dams would have to be pretty darn big to come anywhere near what would be required to contain all that water. :)

TalkTurkey

11/01/2011Poor TROLLS! Have you drowned? Haven't heard from any of you and grave fears are held for your safety. Where will you find a safe bridge to shelter under?

Hillbilly Skeleton

11/01/2011I thought the Wivenhoe Dam would protect Brisbane from flooding? :) I also wonder whether Tony Abbott still thinks 'Climate Change is absolute crap'?

Bring Back Maxine

11/01/2011Hi AA, The Tea Party and their supporters here in Australia are in denial. Well they can't deny the facts. Gifford's Republican opponent in Nov 2 2010 Congressional election, Jesse Kelly, a Tea Party member published the following fund raising event in the Arizona Daily Star: "“Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly.” http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/elections/article_349e18b8-ec64-5fd7-b347-afe7f1778a47.html

Sir Ian Crisp

11/01/2011June 14, 2008, 1:29 PM ET Obama: ‘If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun’ That’s exactly what Barack Obama said he would do to counter Republican attacks “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.” http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/ AA, it looks like you have broken the 'taking things OT' rule but you have quickly forgiven yourself in typical TPS tradition. My OT item is posted above.

2353

11/01/2011HS, Most that live in Brisvegas and also lived through the 74 flood (as I do/did) would have told you years ago the best Wivenhoe Dam could do was mitigate the flood - something it is doing quite well at the moment apparently. The problem is that Lockyer Creek, Bremer River and a number of other large watercourses come into the Brisbane River after Wivenhoe Dam - which in itself is after Somerset Dam. At the moment they are releasing water from the dams but juggling it so that the lower Brisbane doesn't go into major flood which would be a difficult act in itself, let alone when you get walls of water into the River from Lockyer Creek which in effect is uncontrollable. At this stage our house (around 150 metres from the River)is well above flood level (it didn't go under in 74) but we have had some water in the downstairs section of the house and the yard is soaked (to make it better the Council hasn't sent a person around telling us to get out). In reality we have done well so far.

Hillbilly Skeleton

11/01/20112353, I have just heard that Murphys creek and Lockyer Creek are both beyond the Wivenhoe Catchment and so are going to run directly into Brisbane. 32 suburbs around Brisbane have been told to expect an event the equal of '74. Plus there's another storm dumping another 100mm on your area and through the Lockyer River right now. And Tony Abbott says "Climate Change is absolute crap". I'm just amazed he hasn't gone up there to try and hold the waters back, such is his high opinion of himself. ;) Anyway, stay safe, 2353, and while you still have electricity and a warm, dry house, there's hope.

Hillbilly Skeleton

11/01/2011That's right, SIC, misconstrue Barack Obama's rhetorical flourish with Sarah Palin's putting the crosshairs from a rifle sight over Gabrielle Gifford's Congressional District, and exhorting her brainwashed and braindead followers to, "Don't Retreat. Reload!". You really are a despicable character, SIC, whoever you really are, in trying to defend the indefensible like that. Have you no shame man? Oh no, that's right, you support the Regressives.

Hillbilly Skeleton

11/01/2011Here's a recent article by Robert Gottliebsen on Wayne Swan's banking Package: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/ANZ-CBA-NAB-WBC-Swan-Hockey-interest-rates-reform-pd20110107-CV357?OpenDocument&src=mp

Hillbilly Skeleton

11/01/2011Also, SIC, I note that you are willing to selectively blame Barack Obama for the content of his words and the effects they may/may not have on others, but there is nary a peep out of your stuffed shirt about the endless stream of incendiary verbal diarrhoea from the Right of politics and their media, in both this country and America. You have found a Democratic needle in a haystack of Republican hate speech. I bet you feel proud of yourself. And in the 'Journal of Record' of the Regressive Right, the Wall Street Journal, owned by the man most culpable in this whole affair, Rupert Murdoch. What do you want, SIC, a pat on the head?

Sir Ian Crisp

11/01/2011Democrats and pseudoliberals have a rich history of dabbling in and mastering vileness. It is matched by the vileness from the Republicans. Hell, maybe the Republicans have borrowed the Democrats’ playbook. Consider the following: President Obama: And “I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face.” John Kerry who said on the Bill Maher show: “I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.” Howard Dean: “This is a struggle between good and evil and we’re the good?” and “we need to remember that the enemy here is George Bush, not each other.” Democrat Senator Chuck Schumer who called a flight attendant a “bitch.” New York State Comptroller Alan Hevesi (Democrat) who called for Senator Schumer to “put a bullet between the president’s eyes?”** Florida Democrats who ran an ad calling for the assassination of Donald Rumsfeld Jonathan Chait received admiring glances with his "Case for Bush Hatred", in which he defended his dislike not only of Bush's policies but also his personality and mannerisms Singer Rickie Lee Jones who said of President Bush “You’re an ignorant, low-class, opportunistic man, both personally and politically, who does everything for political gain and nothing for the wellbeing of the people, and you should not be in office, and the kind of fascism you’re perpetrating on our country we don’t want, and you’re out. We’re done with you. Ffffhgggmm.” When asked if she would be willing to take Bush out for the benefit of democracy? “If I say that, I might get arrested when I go back. And I have to go home.” She’s thinking it out carefully. “I guess the question is, would I kill anyone? And the answer is, no. But would I feel sorry if someone killed him? No, I wouldn’t. It would depend on who killed him, I guess.” The Late Late Show with Craig Kilborn superimposed the words “Snipers Wanted” over an image of Bush delivering his acceptance speech at the Republican convention. Non-violence Nobel Peace Prize winner Betty Williams who said in front of a Brisbane gathering of school children that she would like to kill President Bush. Add the above to the mix and toss in: Sunday, Jan. 30, 2005 10:44 a.m. EST Dean: 'I Hate Republicans' The front-runner in the race to head up the so-called party of compassion and understanding said unabashedly on Saturday that he "hates" the opposition. "I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for," former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean told Democrats gathered at a Manhattan hotel, in quotes picked up by the New York Daily News. http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/1/30/104654.shtml **Democrat Alan Hevesi was arrested, charged and pleaded guilty of having his hands in the till. AA, I hope you pardon me for going OT. I know I’m not one of your pets but you have set the bar rather low this time. Some of the drivel above was uttered even before the world was introduced to Palin and the Tea Party. HS, your graceless materteral attempt to hide the unpleasantness of ‘family’ members is pathetic. That medication you were taking must have been very strong because you are now suffering delusions.

Hillbilly Skeleton

11/01/2011My god, SIC, Newsmax(home of a pit of vaporous Right Wing vipers), and the Wall Street Journal. It is you that is truly delusional, sir, if you are being sucked into their vortex. And again with the vile references to my 'medication'. You are undoubtedly lower than a snake's belly. Next thing you'll be quoting the vile justifications of this lizard, whose initials are R.L. back at me: http://ezkool.com/?p=5488 That's the thing about conservatives, and their camp followers such as you, they have no humanity, all they believe in is political and economic opportunism. And character assassination. You, and they, have no shame. How you can think that a smattering of tepid 'Left Wing' examples, compared to the incessant daily incendiary toxic sludge that emanates from the mouths of Right Wing Shock Jocks, their TV and newspaper equivalents, and the politicians that benefit from their incitement of the populace, is in any way equivalent, just says to me that you are a bitter and twisted individual constantly on the look out, with gimlet eye, for any advantage against your opponents that you can dredge up. Oh, and for your Alan Hevesi, I throw this back at you: http://www.frumforum.com/delay-gets-three-years-in-prison Might I also add that the attempt at humour by a Late Night Comedian, wrt George W.Bush, or a singer being drawn into making an intemperate comment, is in NO WAY equivalent to a potential candidate for the Presidency of the United States exhorting her followers to, "Don't Retreat. Reload". After placing a map of America on her Political Action Committee website which had Rifle gunsight crosshairs placed over the seats of the candidates she wanted 'Eliminated'. Now, crawl back into the hole you slithered out of, Sir Ian Crisp, and while you're there you may want to read this, and attempt to absorb the very good points that are made about a person's morality, or lack of, and whose deficit goes way beyond calling a Flight Attendant a "Bitch", (especially when it may very well have been true): http://firedoglake.com/2011/01/10/sarah-palins-political-career-may-already-be-over-but-if-its-not-it-should-be/

Jason

11/01/2011Listening to the Prime ministers presser this afternoon, and may I congratulate the press pack!A horrible event is happening and people have lost their lives their homes etc but our press asks the hard questions! like where are we with the health agreement with the states, Abbott's dams, will the budget still remain on track to surplus? How much is it going to cost to repair for god's sakes what is wrong with these morons? On any other day these might be reasonable questions! why don't these fools do something constructive and become human sandbags!

Ad astra reply

11/01/20112353 We wish you safety from the rising waters. It seems as if the projected levels of the Brisbane River are below that in 1974. While the flow from the Wivenhoe Dam can be controlled, the volume of water that will come via Lockyer Creek is unknown and its affect uncertain. So projections are problematic. What a tragedy the floods have been and what an extraordinary event the Toowoomba flash flood has been and still is, with scores still not accounted for. The response from the emergency services, the ADF, the Queensland and Federal governments, and the people themselves, has been efficient, empathic and courageous; we should all be proud as Australians. We are one with them all – our hearts go out to all affected. It is regrettable that some members of the Canberra Press Gallery at Julia Gillard’s press conference today wasted her time and ours with questions inappropriate for the tragic circumstances, one questioning whether the cost of the floods to the federal budget will necessitate abandoning the idea of bringing in a surplus budget in 2012/13; another whether the proposed health reforms could be brought in on time! I was incensed by such insensitive and blatantly political questioning while many of our countrymen may be lying dead in their inundated homes or cars, or drowned in flooded watercourses. I was surprised to hear talkback callers on ABC radio expressing similar feelings. Several from Canberra called to express their solidarity with the people of Queensland, to apologize for the conduct of the Canberra Press Gallery journalists, and assure Queenslanders that the people of Canberra are not tarred with attitude of inward-looking journalists living in their own little political bubble.

Ad astra reply

11/01/2011Sir Ian I have no intention of responding to your pointless comments, based on dredged up material over two years old, nor to the insults you seem incapable of passing up. FS has given you all the response you deserve. You remind me of a noisy mosquito buzzing around, irritating everyone, threatening to bite, and contributing nothing of value. I wish I could locate an effective insect repellant. I have just one query – What on earth do you mean by I [i]“have broken the 'taking things OT' rule”[/i]? At least answer that question, and without trying to be smart.

Jason

11/01/2011"Acting Opposition Leader Julie Bishop is receiving briefings on Tuesday in Brisbane." What? is the mad monk on holiday? http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/pm-gillard-briefed-on-floods-20110111-19lqh.html

BSA Bob

11/01/2011Jason & Ad astra re your last comments. I didn't see the presser you refer to- we may receive edited lowlights on tv this evening- but if few questions were asked about the floods we can at least assume Government & other responses are going as well as they can. There will be time for the press to find the disgruntled ones & to don the clear & perfect lenses of hindsight. Interesting that Abbott's on hols or something- anyway somewhere he presumably can't be reached but can reach out from. I said here some days ago that if he did an action man stunt in Qld I'd be ill- at least that hasn't happened but I think it inevitable he'll be leading the eventual criticism. To judge from the SMH article he's keeping his options open. But as I also said, if the Government's responses prove to be beyond any reproach he can simply walk away from the whole affair.

2353

11/01/2011SIC = troll. Don't feed the troll. Thanks for your well wishes. Trust me there a thousands worse off than we are. Any ideas to stop the rain would be appreciated however :)

Jason

11/01/2011 HS, your graceless materteral attempt to hide the unpleasantness of ‘family’ members is pathetic. That medication you were taking must have been very strong because you are now suffering delusions. Sir Ian Crisp And people say the shooter in Arizona is a deranged nutter!!!

GrannyAnny

11/01/2011Ref the PM's press conference. I have been on the road all day and the local ABC is broadcasting frequent warnings about a large bushfire to the south of Perth. Obviously there has also been a lot of material about the SE Qld tragedy broadcast. I didn't hear any of the press conference but there must have been significant negative feed back about the attitude of the interviewers because the local announcer regularly referred to it.

Hillbilly Skeleton

11/01/2011The Canberra Press Gallery has a hide as thick as Jessie. They won't let the criticism of their behaviour get in the way of Business As Usual. Their aim is to bring the Gillard government down, and they will not be deterred. As has been so succinctly stated by NormanK, political reporting has degenerated to the level of political cartooning. Focussing on insubstantial issues, and irrelevant details about the physical appearance of our leaders. All to act as a type of corrosive political acid meant to steadily wear away support for the ALP federal government. It's why low-lifes like 'Sir Ian Crisp' pop up on a regular basis here to spray their acerbic verbal acid around, and then disappear again just as quickly. They never contribute to the political debate in any substantive way, they just seek to demean and degrade. Such as with SIC's now constant refrain about my 'medication'. Actually, to tell you the truth, I am one of the lucky ones, I have been through more personal trauma than some experience in 2 lifetimes, yet I have never needed 'medication' for my mental pain. I just think how things could be worse, smile and get on with my life. Actually, it's those people, such as 'Sir Ian Crisp', full of bile and inchoate anger which spills over into blogs such as ours, that I feel sorry for. Their aim seems to be to make others as miserable and cut up by their comments as possible. Small people, leading very small lives, when it all comes down to it. Even when we have such a very obvious example of where this type of inchoate rage against those who one considers one's political opposition can lead, these small-minded people just can't seem to control their own rage enough to moderate their comments for once. Instead, they dissemble and attempt to present 'evidence' to 'prove' that my comments about a set of circumstances and what was a contributory factor more likely than not to a ghastly event occurring, and which most reasonable people would agree with me on the conclusions, were somehow extreme. The dissembling part was the presentation of supposedly equivalent instances of Democratic politicians doing and saying things supposedly just as bad. When they obviously weren't, and they obviously have had to be dredged up from comments by minor Democratic political personages and B List celebrities, from years ago. In contrast to the Right Wing Hate Speech machine which rolls on 24/7, every single day, now and no doubt into the future. Also, the mealy-mouthed weazel words from those such as 'Sir Ian Crisp' encompass the now refined argument that, 'The Republicans/Coalition may do it, but the Democrats/ALP are worse.' When any fair-minded, independant observer knows that that simply is not the case. However, the proponent of such views will still continue to try and push that barrow, hopeful that they may contribute to the conversion of the minds, not of those they know they will never be able to sway, but of those who may be passively reading the contributions to this blog. It's just despicable, really.

Jason

11/01/2011HS, Hardball: Blissfully ignorant Tea Party Nation founder Judson Phillips annihilated by Matthews http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuca64znNX4

Hillbilly Skeleton

11/01/2011Sir Ian Crisp, Here's a few more comments from those, not really as bad as the Democrats, Republicans you would want us to believe are little pussycats really: " If this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment Remedies...." - Sharron Angle "I tell people don't kill all the Liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus-living fossils- so we will never forget what these people stood for." - Rush Limbaugh ""We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens' creme brulee,"- Ann Coulter "If ballots don't work, BULLETS will."- Joyce Kaufman

Hillbilly Skeleton

11/01/2011Jason, The 'Blissfully Ignorant Leader of the Tea Party Nation'. Lol.

Sir Ian Crisp

11/01/2011I think Colen answered your question AA. Jason,this post is about the banking reforms so a person such as yourself who is simon-pure should not be posting about the Qld floods. And no, I haven't stopped beating my partner. He enjoys it so much; he insists on a good floggin'.

Jason

11/01/2011SIC, In the words of Jimmy Barnes "there ain't no second prize"!

Hillbilly Skeleton

11/01/2011Jason, I think the Midnight Oils song, 'Short Memory' might be more appropriate for our SIC little **tch, seeing as how he was the first cab off the rank to go off-topic on this blog. Though hypocrisy IS the Conservatives' longsuit.

Macca

12/01/2011"And no, I haven't stopped beating my partner. He enjoys it so much; he insists on a good floggin'." I'm sure we've all heard pedophiles use this reasoning as an excuse for their actions. You've outed yourself Crisp, and, should there be a God, it is my fervent wish that he/she forsake you for all eternity.

TalkTurkey

12/01/2011"I've seen fire and I've seen rain . . . " (James Taylor) At opposite corners of our big island, sad and desperate people are fighting for their lives and homes and livelihoods against these two incongruously, diammetrically-different great natural destructive forces. It reminds us of our fragility and our tenuous hold on life. I have fought both forces, in 1956 (!) Dad and my bro and I in my early teens went to Mannum on the Murray to fill sandbags to help fight the flood surge, and then in '77 and again in '84 I tried to help stop the Ash Wednesday 1 and 2 fires . . . So I too have seen fire and flood, but never rain like in Qld right now. Courage, my countrymen. Our thoughts are with you. One thing though: Can anyone explain to me something I have always wondered about, viz., how come the armed services are NEVER called in to fight fires? I see they are being deployed to help in flood control, but why never in fires? I really want an answer. 2353, NormanK, PatriciaWA, anyone else close to harm's way, hope you are all safe. Dog be with you.

Hillbilly Skeleton

12/01/2011Talk Turkey, It looks like SA may be getting its own flood event in the next day or so. I don't know if it will be in your neck of the woods, I hope not. Stay safe yourself. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

12/01/2011Macca, I have a sneaking suspicion that that comment by SIC to which you refer was just another Troll move on its part. Meant to suck us into responding in an outraged way. Not this little black duck. :) However, if true, I concur.

Hillbilly Skeleton

12/01/2011Jon Stewart, on the money, as usual: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-january-10-2011/arizona-shootings-reaction

Jason

12/01/2011Has this low life nothing better to do? The huge cost of responding to Queensland's flood crisis calls into question the wisdom of spending billions on a national broadband network (NBN), federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says. Mr Abbott says the scheme could be "perfectly well" provided in most instances by private sector businesses, as he again attacked the federal government for its use of taxpayers' money. http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Floods-show-need-for-NBN-rethink-Abbott-CV9MC?OpenDocument&rf=s

Ad astra reply

12/01/2011FS What a worthwhile link is the one to the Jon Stewart video. He speaks such sense. Jason Infuriating as it is, we ought not to be surprised that Tony Abbott would so flagrantly use the economic tragedy of the Queensland flood to push his ‘demolish the NBN’ line. He is the epitome of opportunistic politics. Nothing is too extreme for him, nothing too outrageous; nothing seems to out of bounds. This is Abbott writ large in all his ugliness. Nauseating as his behaviour is, we need to hold our noses, move away, and thank our lucky stars that we have a decent leader at the helm of Australian politics.

2353

12/01/2011TT - thanks for the thoughts, the family and I are safe and well at a relatives house that is quite high. We have small kids and didn't really want to lose services etc at home. We checked this morning and our place should be ok - but we probably won't see it again until Saturday. Stay safe everyone.

Rx

12/01/2011Apparently the screening of John Stewart's 'The Daily Show' on ABC will soon be coming to an end. (Can't have progressive voices on the ABC, you know!)

Hillbilly Skeleton

12/01/2011What a rank political opportunist Tony Abbott is. When he could be mucking in on the ground and aiding the clean up effort in Queensland, what does he do? He tries to find a political wedge, by setting the hares running in a completely different direction, to drive through the Australian society, to destabilise them emotionally about an irrelevant issue, when they are at their most emotionally vulnerable. He loves to play on people's emotions, and exploit them. He seems to spend his time casting about for a niggle that he can use to go out into the media with and differentiate himself from the prevailing political winds, so as to put the spotlight back upon himself. A very, "Look at moi!" approach. Now, it may not happen overnight, but I think that eventually the electorate will start to smell a rat when it comes to such political tactics, if they are not already starting to do so. Then, when it comes to choosing a Prime Minister, they just might think to themselves, "Why vote for a devious and sneaky boy to do a man's job?"

Hillbilly Skeleton

12/01/2011Here's another Banking-related story that I found interesting to read about the Basel changes that occurred at the end of last year, but which we have not heard too much about in this country: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Banks-Basel-RBA-bubbles-liquidity-capital-buffer-pd20110111-CZ2X3?OpenDocument&src=kgb

Rx

12/01/2011Recall the eliminationist phraseology used by the Coalition, and amplified, naturally, by their media boosters: [i] assassinated Kevin Rudd ... knifing of a Prime Minister[/i]

Ad astra reply

12/01/2011Folks Before Sir Ian or colen rush to pen their protests about the disgust at Tony Abbott’s comments about the NBN in the wake of the Queensland flood tragedy that have been expressed by Jason, FS and me, let me spell it out in simple terms. No doubt some would argue that he is entitled to suggest that NBN money would be better spent helping flood restoration. That is not why we are disgusted. There are other reasons. First, as FS says, he is playing on the raw emotions of those affected by the floods and of those who from afar empathize with them, when they are most vulnerable. At a time when everyone is distressed and wants to help the flood victims and assist in restoring normality in the ravaged areas, the idea of diverting money from the NBN to flood restoration might have superficial appeal to the unthinking. One can hear some saying – ‘that would be a better use of taxpayers’ money’. A time of high emotion is not the time to carry out complex discussions about such alternatives, or to jump to superficially plausible solutions. Abbott must know this; if he doesn’t, he has no right to be seeking prime ministership. But such considerations are irrelevant to him when an opportunity for wedge politics arises. To make such a suggestion shows once again that the NBN and all it will be able to do for our economy, for health and for education, is not valued by him. He seems unable to see its enormous potential; if he does and still seeks it ‘demolition’, again, he is not fit for prime ministership. Next, in order to reassure any doubters, he argues that: “…the scheme could be ‘perfectly well’ provided in most instances by private sector businesses…” He knows ‘perfectly well’ that is not so; the private sector has had a decade to provide fast broadband and it has not, nor will it, even if invited. The best we could expect would be cherry-picking the profitable parts and to hell with the rest, including most of rural Australia. He then tries to advance his case by smearing the CEO of NBN Co. Mike Quigley, who was in the employ of Alcatel Lucent at the time of a bribe scandal (a smear Sir Ian Crisp made at the top of the comments to this piece) by saying [i]"Senior officials of the NBN were in charge at Alcatel when illegal bribes were paid"[/i] although the article itself states: “[i]Mike Quigley, head of NBN Co, the company responsible for rolling out the network, and his chief financial officer, Jean-Pascal Beaufret, were previously senior executives at Alcatel-Lucent, but played no part in the bribe investigation.”[/i] So there although is no association, Abbott still smears with reckless abandon. Finally, unable to resist any opportunity to smear the Government once again, he repeats his old mantra: “[i]He said this was particularly the case given the government's ‘appalling record of mismanagement’ when it came to the stewardship of public money.”[/i] If all that is not sufficient reason for our disgust at Abbott’s naked political opportunism, tell us why it ought not to be.

Jason

12/01/2011AA, Abbott et al would do well to remember Cleaning up the dead in polite society is generally done without bartering over the price

Hillbilly Skeleton

12/01/2011Ad Astra, Tony Abbott's naked political opportunism has also irked Ash Ghebranious: http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/scrutinise/

Ad astra reply

12/01/2011Folks News Limited's impropriety apparently knows no limits. It saw fit to publish the utterances of a Pastor Daniel Nalliah from the Catch the Fire Ministries in an article titled: Pastor says Kevin Rudd to blame for floods http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/pastor-says-kevin-rudd-to-blame-for-floods/story-e6frfku0-1225985730895#ixzz1AnCBYiZ4 Now I suppose it can publish pretty well anything it likes, but why give public voice to the ravings of a religious crank? If Tony Abbott had expressed reservations about Israel’s behaviour would Nalliah have said: ‘Tony Abbott is to blame for the floods’, and if he had, would News Limited have made a story out of it? We all defend freedom of speech, but does that mean that anyone can say anything they like about another, whether speculative or even untrue? We have had this debate around the Arizona outrage. Is there no place for circumspection, or should it just be open slather? Regulating such behaviour or making some of it unlawful is regarded by most as undesirable or impractical; instead they put their faith in self-regulation. Yet News Limited sees no barrier to publishing such nonsense. Where is the self-regulation? Is there no limit?

Hillbilly Skeleton

12/01/2011Ad Astra, As I mentioned to Jason when he brought up that particular piece of tripe and nonsense From Pastor Nalliah(who almost became the first Christian Minister of Religion convicted in Australia for hate Speech, as far as I can remember), I found it extremely puzzling that he should focus his attack, not on the Atheist Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, but on one of the most devoutly Christian MPs in the ALP, Kevin Rudd. As I haven't bothered to read the garbage from Nalliah's pen yet, I have no idea why he chose to do that. Suffice to say that, considering the surfeit of information presented to us daily,in order to capture our eyeballs, yet the still limited number of minutes in the day, it has been my policy recently to dismiss 'The Australian' from my daily consideration of news and current affairs, and to definitely not waste my time on absolute trash, such as that which Pastor Nalliah hatefully spews forth.

Hillbilly Skeleton

12/01/2011If only the Canberra Press Pack did a little bit of research before they went off half-cocked at Prime Ministerial Press Conferences and asked inane questions about the impact of the Qld. Floods on the Budget Bottom Line. If they did, and consulted experts such as the 2 in the following article, then maybe they might not ask such cretinous questions: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Queensland-floods-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Res-pd20110112-CZTAF?OpenDocument&src=pmm

Jason

12/01/2011HS, "If only the Canberra Press Pack did a little bit of research" surely you jest? A competent media that is free thinking, and free of the owners influence! HS come to your senses! Not in this life time!

Hillbilly Skeleton

12/01/2011Jason, For a rigger you come up with some wise comments. :)

TalkTurkey

12/01/2011Ummm . . . Which side of politics is it that is defending the right of anybody (like Palin) to say anything regardless as to whether it's true or not, whether it incites hatred, and to carry arms, all that stuff . . ? . ., And, ummm . . . Which side of politics is it that wants to prosecute Assange for saying things that definitely ARE true (being leaked documents, not opinions) ? ****************************************************************************** HFS thanks for the consideration but no, Adelaide would love to get a deluge but it's not going to happen here - It almost never does, dammit. Well we would dammit if it did. Ad astra, tx, roger, wilco.

colen

12/01/2011Hi Guy's You are no better than the main stream press yourselves. May be you should read or listen or read a politicians full statement before commentating. I am sure that none of then whether from the left or right or centre are actually demeaning of the other side. It is the press and blogs who take statements out of context to suit their purposes. I would also like to say the main stream press is useless in trying to explain the effects of the flooding other than repition of the results.

Hillbilly Skeleton

12/01/2011Rx, You might be interested in reading this: http://www.alternet.org/story/149500/hate_and_violence_are_encoded_in_the_dna_of_the_american_right?page=entire

Hillbilly Skeleton

12/01/2011Paul Krugman again. For an economist he speaks a lot of moral sense: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/opinion/10krugman.html?_r=2&src=me&ref=homepage&source=cmailer

Jason

12/01/2011GREEDY GERRY: Heartless Harvey fiddles at lavish Gold Coast party while Queensland drowns http://www.vexnews.com/news/12109/greedy-gerry-heartless-harvey-fiddles-at-lavish-gold-coast-party-while-queensland-drowns/

Jason

12/01/2011I see on facebook the last couple of days this! " Indo Tsunami..Aust gives $1 billion in aid, Pakistan floods.. Aust gives $66.5 million in aid. THE WORST floods in Aussie history destroys homes, towns, life & bussiness... OUR government donates a lazy $1 million.. pull your finger out Bligh and Gillard start looking after your own, post this to try to make them wake the hell up! Other countries may donate too, thanks to friends who have and will share this!!!" I have no idea where it started and despite the fact you can pick it apart in an instant, it's being put out there as fact! I wonder if it's the brain child of the young coalition?

Hillbilly Skeleton

13/01/2011Jason, As per usual it was the brainchild of Andrew Bolt. He was the first out of the blocks to pooh pooh the $1 million donation by the federal government to the Qld. Premier's Flood Appeal. Of course he will fail to mention the BILLIONS of $ the federal government will donate directly to Queensland for reconstruction, and the MILLIONS of $ they are putting directly into people's pockets who have been affected by the floods. These mini-demagogues like Andrew Bolt trade on such sins of omission, and the false equivalencies such as the 'They donated ...to Indonesia, and ...to Pakistan, therefore why don't they give more than $1 Million to their own'...Failing to mention that they are! Also that, as good global citizens it's the right thing to not only help our own but the citizens of 3rd World countries as well when they suffer from natural disasters. As Julia Gillard says, these people are just wreckers. They have one aim and one aim only, and that is to wreck her government. What do they care if they incite petty jealousies and resentment among the populace at a time of national calamity in order to achieve their aim? It's reckless in the extreme for those sort of people to promote those viral e-mails full of disinformation, and to encourage their spread, like a particularly nasty disease throughout our society. But what do they care?

Patricia WA

13/01/2011Talk Turkey - I am nowhere in harm's way, but I am quiet at the moment. Have just had news from my oldest, and favourite brother, who feels he is fading fast. He is eight years my senior and has had a very good innings, as has wife who is considerably older and well into her nineties. Feel I would rather see him now than wait for his funeral, which he says he doesn't want, anyway. So I have booked the earliest flight possible to the UK and will be returning here around 21/22 January. I imagine I am not alone, hearing of the tragic loss of young life in Queensland, in being grateful for all that I have so far enjoyed in my long life. We are truly blessed if we can reach an age when coming to terms with one's pending demise can be done with some serenity and amongst those we love. I do have a 'pome' lurking in my brain. If I had the time I'd get into it. Maybe on the plane, but topicality is everything. Lovely contrast between him, 'Iron Man Abbott,' sniping away from somewhere behind the scenes, and 'too much Xmas pudding tummy Rudd,' sleeves and trousers rolled up helping people shift in the floods. We seek him here, We seek him there, Can't find that Tony anywhere......... Mr Rabbit? Lost the habit Of - 'There's a mike! Camera! Grab it!' Was it his choice, That Mr. Joyce Be given a chance to raise his voice? Will 'Build More Dams!' Or 'Stop Flood Scams!' Be the Coalition's new programs? It's a start but needs more time than I have right now. Could you do a variation for me, TT? Get it in while he has egg on his face. And where the hell is he, anyway. That's worth a verse or two! Meanwhile, special thoughts to anyone out there who really is in harm's way.

Bilko

13/01/2011where the bloody hell are you(M RAbbott) The Mad Monk is doing a “Latham during the tsunami a few years back impression” and we all now how that ended up and where are the LNP leaders in Qld all at the same retreat with Tones just as well Newman Campbell is about, mind you the rubbish he came out with the other night made me think he had swallowed a dictionary

Hillbilly Skeleton

13/01/2011PatriciaWA, My thoughts are with you at this sad time for you. Having just lost my husband of 30 years just 18 months ago I know a little about how you must be feeling. However, as you say, if you know your brother has had a good innings then you can reconcile yourself a little easier to the coming inevitability. I know it will probably be out of your hands but my husband was not a religious man(never set foot inside a Church for love or money in his life, an agnostic 'married' to an atheist). So I eschewed a Church-based Funeral altogether for him after he passed away. Instead I organised a memorial Service at my home, which is on an acreage in the bush, and we had an MC, music played by friends and over the steroe, plus readings, poems ;) and speeches. We recorded it all for posterity, and had a wake immediately afterwards. It was magic. Anyway, whatever will be, will be. All I can add is you will have plenty of time for poetry on the trip over. :)

TalkTurkey

13/01/2011 PatWA Fly away Our thoughts go with you to the UK. While you roam Far from home I'll do my best to finish your pome! **************************************************** We seek him here, We seek him there, Can't find that Tony anywhere......... Mr Rabbit? Lost the habit Of - 'There's a mike! Camera! Grab it!' Was it his choice, That Mr. Joyce Be given a chance to raise his voice? Will 'Build More Dams!' Or 'Stop Flood Scams!' Be the Coalition's new programs? Journo beckons: Abbortt reckons, "I can only spare three seconds! "Look at Rudd! Covered with mud! Gillard should have stopped this flood! "Climate change? That's all crap! I can't help, I need a nap!"

TalkTurkey

13/01/2011Fun With Trolls (You'll like this Patois) Floods in Brisbane, floods in Gympie: What we hear from dear Sir Limpy? Seems that faced with Nature’s rage, eh, We don’t hear squat from little jj! Trolls been flushed from under bridges With jetsam junk and flotsam fridges! While Labor’s heroes carry on, Phony Tony Abbortt’s gone! Yellow climate change denier! He don't help folks fight flood or fire Trolls talk tough, but when the rain starts, All we hear is Colon’s brain-farts!

Colen

13/01/2011"Labors heroes" OMG. I thought the Queenslanders rejected them. Bligh's ratings were miniscule at the last count. As for where is Tony Abbott. Make up your minds. Earlier in this blog you were all critical of him using valuable resources and to stay out of sight from rescue efforts. As for my brain farts, I'd rather those than the drivel you lot succumb to. You lot make good little mushrooms.

Patricia WA

13/01/2011Well done, TT! A fleeting thought - how Abbott is hidden away somewhere in a rescue crew and doing an undercover stint? He'd be enjoying the work, has a lot of fire/rescue skills. Grant him that. Is uncovered by 'some chance' and is full of modest disclaimers but now has lots of material for anti-Bligh, anti-Gillard campaign? Be prepared for him to step out into the limelight at a moment of his choosing. Must dash!

Ad astra reply

13/01/2011colen I agree that the press and blogs take statements out of context to suit their purposes, but can’t agree with your idealistic view that politicians are not demeaning of the other side. Tony Abbott demeans the Government on almost every occasion he appears on TV or radio. But I wish you were right. You bristle at the reference to ‘Labor heroes’. At least be charitable enough to give us the chance to feel proud of the performance of Anna Bligh and Julia Gillard throughout the flood crisis. We’re not the only ones – an online survey of over thirty-thousand shows that 82% rate Anna’s performance as ‘outstanding’; only 2% rated it as poor. FS Thank you for your links – always useful reading. Your reference to Andrew Bolt’s premature and ill-advised comments about flood relief payments from the federal Government classically illustrates NormanK’s concept of ‘The Right to be Angry’. That’s just what Bolt is setting out to do – persuading his readers they have The Right to be Angry. This is subversive. Patricia WA I hope your visit to your ailing brother is all you both wish it to be. We shall miss you until you return. Your ‘pome’ starts well; I see TT has been tempted to add to it. I heard that Tony Abbott turned up in Brisbane today, but can’t find any reference in the media to what he said.

TalkTurkey

13/01/2011Colon said " . . . my brain farts . . . " Heeheeheeheehehee . . . Ya gotta use the right bait to get a bite like that!

TalkTurkey

13/01/2011Ad astra, I was thinking in particular of Kevin Rudd. Jollying up the locals, wading through floodwaters carrying heavy loads, speaking plain to a crusty old bloke who didn't want to leave his threatened home . . . These are the acts of genuine ordinary heroes, people I'd be truly honoured to call friends. Thank you Kevin and all your ilk, Coalition members included if any there be. But that definitely excludes Abbortt and Barnyard. Bligh and Gillard are both acquitting themselves nobly too. "Though cowards run and traitors sneer . . ." Guess who's which out of Colon and Abbortt!

Acerbic Conehead

13/01/2011I thought you would all be in holiday mode these days, so I posted the following on Poll Bludger. Jason asked me to re-post it. See if you can spot the cameo role that John Howard plays in the "Wall" clip. *************************************** Tony Abbott has got wind of Julie Bishop stealing his thunder at the Queensland evacuation centre. So he’s high-tailed it up there and is busily knocking on the locked door. However, no-one seems to be too keen to let him in. Lament along with him to the tones of Pink Floyd’s, “Comfortably Numb”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkJNyQfAprY :- ( Hello Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me Is there anyone at home? Come on, now Don’t see anyone kneeling, down Well I can stop the rain By spinning my weathervane :- ( Relax I'll need some information, first Just the basic facts You with us or the unjust? :- ( (chorus) On my boatphone, you are receding You gotta stop all this sleep-walking Julie B only comes through and waves Her lips move, but her eyes are stark-staring bonkers :- ( When Jesus was small, thought he had a fever His glands felt just like two balloons But now its clear, we know different We now know in Jesus’ time it was warmer And don’t say that shows I......have become comfortably dumb :- ( Okay, been a bit of a prick There’ll be no more AHHHHhhhhh’s... But, but, but...you may feel a little sick Can you stand up? On the dams we gotta get working, GOOD We gotta create a diversion from that pesky NBN Come on, it's time to go again :- ( (Chorus) :- ( When at the beach Catching waves in my budgies I caught a fleeting glimpse Of your plight on the telly So I’ve turned up to show some Real Action But it looks like I’ve misjudged things just a fraction Looks like I’ve again become so...comfortably dumb

Hillbilly Skeleton

13/01/2011Ah, AcerbicC., someone like Austen Tayshus should put your words with their conjoined songs and make a record out of it. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

13/01/2011Shout out for those who are interested. In the latest edition of New Statesman their is an interview between John Pilger and Julian Assange. Apparently he has some 'insurance' against attempted attacks by Rupert Murdoch and his News Corp/Fox News empire. :) Excerpt below: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/01/china-wikileaks-assange?source=cmailer

colen

13/01/2011Hi AA, Thanks for agreeing with me for once. I would like to state there are no Labour heroes or Coalition heroes. There are merely individuals in any position looking after their properties, helping out their neighbours. They are all stuck in the same boat. If they don't work together they will all drown. Queenslanders are made of sturdy stock. I don't know if you watched the ABC tonight but there were some amazing stories of courage shown by these people. A loud cheer for them. AA they all need our support no matter who. Besides Bligh and Gillard what about Campbell Brown and the work he is doing and achieving as the "Highest Ranking Liberal in the country". Not that he cares about that at the moment. He just wants to save his City and it's population and return their lives to normality as soon as possible.

Ad astra reply

14/01/2011AC You really have the knack of finding the right tune to accompany your words. colen I can agree with you again – Campbell Newman too has been outstanding, as has Major General Mick Slater, charged with managing the recovery phase. In fact all officials managing the crisis have done us proud. Queenslanders have shown us what they are made of. They deserve our unqualified support, as do those in NSW and Victoria currently fighting flood threats. It shows how well we Aussies work when we collaborate. If only the same spirit of cooperation operated in the political sphere, how much more might we achieve. I noticed that yesterday Tony Abbott, so fond of opposing, and Julie Bishop, showed solidarity with the people of Queensland and passed up the opportunity to criticise the flood relief efforts. Don’t we long for the day when ALL our politicians pull together for the benefit of our nation and set aside adversarial politics where so much energy is wasted fighting each other. As a nation we can’t afford this.

2353

14/01/2011Hi - back at home with no damage except for a rather musty smell from the mud at the end of the street and having the house locked up for a couple of days. The family will be coming back this afternoon. Thanks again for the best wishes from this forum. Colen - the Brisbane Mayor's name in Campbell Newman (not Brown) and throughout this flooding episode in Brisbane has not done one joint press session with Anna Bligh (Brad Carter, Rocky's Mayor was behind the Premier's shoulder throughout the time Bligh was in Rocky and also freely spoke to the media)- who has and is continuing to do a fantastic job at keeping the public informed while the emergency services where working hard. She told the story straight and if there was a contentious issue (such as not searching the Lockyer Valley earlier) she explained in simple and easy to understand language why the "popular" action wasn't necessitate the "correct" one. As a local driving across Brisbane this morning to check out my house - it seems that Newman is only now getting planning organised for the recovery and clean up process telling a commercial FM station breakfast crew that various urgently needed and reasonably foreseen activities will only start tomorrow once the Council has got organised. Newman is a LNP member (although the election signs have very small logos). Bligh by contrast has been the "face" of this entire statewide emergency - while her mother was evacuating. Now to go and spend the next hour or so driving back the 15 or so k's to pack up the family and come home - FINALLY!

Ad astra reply

14/01/20112353 I’m glad you have not suffered serious damage to your house and that you can now get your family back home again. I had not realized that Campbell Newman had not done a joint press conference with Anna Blight – on TV they intersperse images so deftly that one gets the impression of them all pulling together. As a local you would know how well he had responded to the crisis as Brisbane Lord Mayor, whereas we at a distance see him as performing well.

TalkTurkey

14/01/2011Col*n So . . . "Campbell Brown . . . the "Highest Ranking Liberal in the country" is really Campbell NEWMAN . . . AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HIS NAME! BWAHAHAHAHAAAAA! Liberals! . . . and he won't even appear with Anna Bligh, why not I wonder? BLEAAAAAHHHHHHH! LIBERALS! You Col*n personally should be made to wear a sign on your BACK, "DANGER! Do not strike a light while I am speaking!"

TalkTurkey

14/01/2011Thanks 2353 for that advice, I wasted some time looking for Campbell Brown, (LIBERALS, HA!), no wonder all I could find was an AFL footy player and an ex-CNN female broadcaster. More fool me, crediting one of THEM! 2353 I do hope your own property is not too badly flood-damaged, our thoughts are with Queenslander/NSW flood victims and WA fire victims. Take care cleaning up. Horrible job, terrible situation, and many dangers. Keep us posted eh, you are our own witness on the spot. And pity poor Brazilians. Many of them are worse off again, because poorer, lacking infrastructure and in many places inaccessible. We are world citizens too. Let us give thanks to the Lord our Goh Gug Gggg Gocchhh (Gee I still can't say that word) for stopping the rain! Oh yes, hang on, but wasn't it Him who sent the bloody stuff? Answering the People's prayers to end the drought no doubt! Top joke! I thank Dog I'm not a Goghchhh G'ggg Gogggghh-botherer! In Orwell's "Animal Farm", Muriel, the stoic and philosophical aged Donkey, observes: "Gogcchhhhh (sorry, readers) gave Donkeys a tail to (?swish?-TT) away the flies, but I'd rather have no tail and no flies." Likewise, I'd rather have no disasters and no deliverances.

TalkTurkey

14/01/2011Phony Tony Abbortt looking fresh clean and crisp in an in-depth (?!!!) live interview by Joe O'Brien in the street with a lot of people working grubbily in the background . . . Giving us the benefit of his humanity and wisdom . . . Sure wouldn't want him getting down and grubby himself, not like Kevin Rudd wading around getting sweaty and filthy carrying stuff like an ordinary labourer, Tony's too important in giving advice and holding the Government to account . . .

Sir Ian Crisp

14/01/2011It’s interesting to note that Piers Akerman seems to be saying what a lot of other people are saying about the bird of paradox’s demeanor at press conferences. A lot of people and members of the commentariat are saying that the bird of paradox seems wooden...scripted...ill at ease. Some are even saying she resembles a ventriloquist’s dummy.

Jason

14/01/2011It's interesting to note that our resident do nothing quotes another well known do nothing and accuses others of being a ventriloquist’s dummy. Sir Ian Piers Akerman? you have lost the plot!

NormanK

14/01/2011Hi all. Back from a little adventure with a kidney stone which started on Monday night. Like an unwelcome hitchhiker, it insisted on describing every metre of the journey in full technicolour (ooh look there's a tree) when all the driver wants is for the trip to be over. Gentlemen in the audience please squint your eyes and imagine an 8mm kidney stone attempting to transverse a path best suited to liquids. Aahh. I can feel your empathy from here. Sorry SIC, a bit OT wouldn't you say? Much to catch up on at TPS and I'll post again later.

Jason

14/01/2011Normank, I hear ya brother, I had one two years ago and it was only 5mm! but you do realise the women are going to give you heaps when they tell you about long labours probably some of the longest known in medical history, I think you may wish it to come back now you've opened this can of worms!

Ad astra reply

14/01/2011Sir Ian You really have outed yourself this time – you are a reader of Piers Akerman, and even worse, you give his writing credence. What else would you expect Akerman to say about a PM he loathes? You go on to say “[i]A lot of people and members of the commentariat are saying that the bird of paradox seems wooden...scripted...ill at ease.”[/i] So it’s ‘a lot of people’ is it? Who are they - are you one of them? And ‘members of the commentariat’! Really, what a surprise from an antagonistic group that has been berating her non-stop, even before she became PM! It is astonishing that a person of your erudition could fall for the ‘some people say’ routine that is stock in trade of the US Fox News network that uses this tactic to push its anti-Obama line – no evidence needed because ‘some people say’. I wonder why you risk further damaging your already tattered credibility by coming on here and writing such tosh. For my part, I think Julia has been magnificent. She has been on the job among the flood victims, sincere, earnest and effective. That’s why Akerman is pouring out his bile.

Ad astra reply

14/01/2011NormanK An 8mm stone in the urinary tract is very painful, especially when it traverses the narrowest point, where the ureter enters the bladder. The best part is looking at the offending object in a bottle – I hope your urologist gave it to you as a memento, or did he crush it? I’m glad this episode is behind you.

Ad astra reply

14/01/2011Sir Ian Yesterday in Queensland even Tony Abbott “[i]…praised ’all levels of Government’ for their response to the Queensland flood crisis.”[/i] If Abbott can do it why can’t Akerman, why can’t you? http://www.news.com.auhttp://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/federal-opposition-leader-says-courage-of-previous-generations-of-government-saved-brisbane-from-total-disaster/story-e6freoof-1225987222873#ixzz1AyhFWqV5 Abbott’s main ‘political’ message though emerged when he heaped praise on previous governments – (the Bjelke-Petersen government) “[i]It is a tribute to the foresight and the courage of an earlier generation of Queensland politicians that that dam [Wivenhoe] was built. Though I think we should be grateful to them for that, in the weeks and months ahead it will be important to reflect on the experiences of these floods and to work out how we can best ensure that the community is safeguarded as far as can be against a recurrence.[/i]” If Abbott can exercise discipline at this time of tragedy and loss, why can’t Akerman; why can’t you?

Hillbilly Skeleton

14/01/2011SIC, Piers Akerman is a bitch. End of. Need I remind you, yet again, of the warm welcome in the Evacuation Centres that the Prime Minister has received(and, I note you are, in your mean-spirited and very small-minded way, never able to bring yourself to call Julia Gillard our Prime Minister, preferring instead your own bitchy appellation), from those not as flint-hearted as you and Akerman? However it doesn't suit the script for you to mention that, or the rousing response in Rockhampton which she received from the citizens of that place, does it? Instead, you fill your head with hate, from sites such as Newsmax, news.com.au, and from selected professional urgers and agitators, such as Piers Akerman, and then you come here to this blog to spew that hate back at us. And, you must have one of those Costello-esque self-satisfied smirks on your face when you do, I can just see it. Because, you think you are so much better than us, here, at The Political Sword. I'm sure you believe that it is only a matter of time before your collective vitriol will poison the well enough to turn the electorate away from the ALP; you, Bolt, Akerman, Abbott, Sky News, News Corp and The Australian. You are hoping, no doubt, to have so corroded confidence in and respect for our hard-working Prime Minister, and, no doubt, as Campbell Newman has shown already, as soon as the mud dries, you will begin and join with the opportunistic calls from members of the Coalition for things such as their hoary old chestnut, the 'Judicial Enquiry'(so that they may have dirt dug for them to turn into mud to sling at ALP politicians). It's so petty, and it's so predictable. As are you, 'Sir Ian Crisp'. A nom de plume no doubt confected to continue to connote the Imperial Honours system, redolent of the forelock tugging for which the Conservatives are well-renowned, but which you probably think reminds us of the fact that you are one of our 'betters'. How far from the truth can you get? You are so much less than us because of your elitism, and the lack of good graces that you manifest here regularly. Why don't you just go back to the Akerman and Bolt blogs, where you belong? And leave the adults to discuss the issues of the day, reasonably, and with goodwill, among themselves. You serve no useful purpose here. If you ever did, 'Sir Ian Crisp'. At least, jj, and Colen meet us on the field of contested ideas. You just spew vitriol, like that other gay bitch, Alan Jones. It's tiresome, trite and the ultimate in trivial discourse.

Ad astra reply

14/01/2011The link above is not working. This one will: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/federal-opposition-leader-says-courage-of-previous-generations-of-government-saved-brisbane-from-total-disaster/story-e6freoof-1225987222873?

Hillbilly Skeleton

14/01/2011NormanK, You just had to try and outdo me in the Kidney area, didn't you? ;) Get well soon, but I know you will because roses keep blooming all summer long. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

14/01/2011Talk Turkey, You will be amazed at what the reCaptcha box just threw up at me. A Man in the Moon face! Now, how do you translate that to keys on the keyboard? :) Sadly, I had to change it before I could send you this message. :(

Hillbilly Skeleton

14/01/2011Grog's back! http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/

Ad astra reply

14/01/2011Welcome back Grog As usual, his first piece for the year is right on the money.

2353

14/01/2011G'day - a bit of mould here - Vanilla Fridge Wipe is wonderful stuff :). It was really depressing driving into our usually nice area of Brisvegas - thick oozy mud on the side of the roads, on the footpath and throughout people's personal possessions heaped on the footpath. Saw 6 army trucks including a few Bushmasters turning into a major road with houses that were badly affected and boats nowhere near the water. Won't be on here much tomorrow - off to help those less fortunate than I. NormanK - happy you're recovering from the Kidney Stone - hope you're keeping dry. Couldn't be bothered discussing the latest diatribe from the alleged knight of the realm. Actually is it an offence to claim you are a "Sir" when you're not? It's illegal to falsely claim certain qualifications, to be a religious minister or a JP. Oh well - onward and upward. Now for the unpacking.

Hillbilly Skeleton

14/01/20112353, So good to hear mould is your biggest concern. I was just watching the residents of Milton cleaning up and helping their neighbours, as you will be doing tomorrow. It's really uplifting to see that Australians on the ground can forget their ideological differences and pull together when push comes to shove. If only certain politicians could behave that way as well. Have fun tomorrow and see you soon when you have some downtime. :)

Jason

14/01/2011HS, This is now doing the rounds on facebook! Australia Day fireworks cost hundreds of thousands 4 ten minutes of enjoyment...Join me in urging our states to cancel them & instead donate that money to flood affected areas in QLD NOW THATS WHAT BEING AUSTRALIAN IS ABOUT. POST THIS AS YOUR STATUS AND SPREAD THE WORD

TalkTurkey

14/01/2011Gee our principals are having a tough trot - Skelly been really ill, 2353 flood-affected if mercifully less so than so many; PatriciaWA having to decamp to the Old Dart, NormanK vying with oysters to produce bioliths, (except, pearls are nice and smooth, unlike K-stones!) . . . (Weak attempt at pun) . . . NormanK I have never had kidney stones but I know how excruciating they are reputed to be, I once had to drive a friend's mother to the Royal Adelaide Hospital in a dash at 3 AM, speeding through Adelaide streets; on the way the cops tried to pull me over, I wouldn't stop, just yelled HOSPITAL at them and after they looked at me suspiciously they turned on their fancy lights and escorted me all the way to the casualty entrance. That woman was in extremis. I was told that kidney stones are amongst the most painful things of all, and I believe it too. Best wishes Comrade. Ad astra you take care, we can't afford others going AWOL. Lyn come back we need you . . . 2353 as a matter of fact I am Lord LiarBird, I just didn't want to pull rank on poor Sir Limpy, didn't want him getting inferiority syndrome . . . although he's worth it . . . Skelly, you are sounding stronger, great stuff. What a pity you couldn't Captcha the Man in the Moon image . . . So the Scientist has a fantasy trivia side too, glad to hear it! One of my graphics is the Woman in the World, with a sad pretty face made of recognisable land masses, Australia looks like a rosebuddy mouth saying OOOOOH!

CALLIGULA

14/01/2011Brilliant – When you lot have sorted out the backscratching and bickering for the new year Let me remind you that CALLIGULA waits in the wings to bring some logic to your blether. Once yo’ve sorted out who’s emerged from the deluge and who’s run away we can get back to disinformation at the usual level. Bless you all and keep you slightly water wrinkled.

Sir Ian Crisp

14/01/2011Who are they asks AA. Here we have but two stories and a small sample of comments following the article "Has Anna Bligh earned herself a second chance?" by John Birmingham Julia Gillard is a disgraceful leader, to see a leader reading scripted reports and not being able to even show one ounce of emotion is embarrassing. I would be very surprised if she makes it through this. Julia - when you are doing an interview you don't need to answer every question with a CAN I JUST SAY.................we want you to say, please tell. Jimmy B | Brisbane - January 13, 2011, 6:52AM Anna Bligh succinctly provided all information and assurances... while Julia Gillard nodded like a zombie automaton in the background at yesterdays 1:30pm press conference. Gillard sounds like she's -badly- reading from a teleprompter when she does have something to say. plantain | Cannon Hill - January 13, 2011, 7:09AM Agreed. The perfomance of Julia Gillard was woeful. Sounded like a school mistress lecturing the pupils. Again. And cliche after souless cliche delivered in a leaden manner with the wormth and emotion of a brick. I understand the need to appear 'Preseidential' - but really. Gillard needs to fire her speachmaker and spin doctors and start afresh. The contrast was stark, and will do Gillard no favours. Bruce P | On high ground, thankfully - January 13, 2011, 7:23AM The above is a small sample of responses to the Birmingham article in The Sydney Morning Herald. Want more? Here ya go: "How Anna Bligh, politician, acted just like a human" by David Penberthy John C says: 05:25am | 14/01/11 Yes, she has shone by comparison to Gillard who has appeared programmer, rehearsed, robotic and (and this may be unfair to her) comes across as lacking empathy or communion with those affected by the floods. I suspect this is because Gillard’s whole adult life has been politics rather than community or family. I don’t like him but Rudd, in comparison, has shown care and compassion. Gillard is not a national leader. No AA I don’t read Akerman. I won’t pay to breach the paywall. I did hear him interviewed by Jim Ball. C'mon HS, you aren't driven to conniptions when I call Abbott Mr Um Err Ahh. You don't get red in the face with titles such as Truffles and Rabbit so why is the bird of paradox such a protected species? Consistency HS...try it for once. 2353, I agree it is bad form to pretend you are a knight. It is not however against the law to change your first name to Sir. We have names like Chase, Chance, Hunter, Apple, Thijs, Coco, Ireland, Suri, Diezel, Daisy Boo, Bluebell, Indiana, Pilot, Audio, Fifi-Trixibelle, Peaches, Little Trixie, Honeyblossom, Heavenly Hiraani Tiger, Satchel, and Caspar. My name is mild and not out of place. Some of the above names are offspring of the 'progressive' set so all is well.

Jason

14/01/2011Sir Ian crisp, "following the article "Has Anna Bligh earned herself a second chance?" by John Birmingham" All well and good where is the article? do you have a link? you think the comments prove your case? why are you so lazy? If you had the wit, turned up with links to state your case fair enough! but you don't! we need proof SIC, you give nothing !

Ad astra reply

14/01/2011Sir Ian Oh dear, so now you are resorting to comments made in response to a Birmingham article to demean Julia Gillard. That is really pathetic. What credence ought we to give to Johnny B, Cannon Hill, Bruce P and John C.? I could find hundreds of condemnatory comments about her in any number of New Limited blogs. Why not get a few from the Akerman and Bolt blogs – there would be lots of nasty quotes there. If you can’t do better than that in quoting what ‘some people say’, don’t waste our time here.

Sir Ian Crisp

14/01/2011Jason, I gave you a hint. Birmingham's piece appeared in The Sydney Morning Herald. Google is your friend. I haven't read Birmingham's piece and I am not interested in what he says. I was interested in the vox populi...what were members of the public saying...what was contained in the various responses to his article about the bird of paradox. Got it yet? The article itself IS NOT IMPORTANT. Just how much grog did you throw down over the Xmas period? You should not drink if you can't handle it. What credence ought we give to Johnny B and others asks AA. Aren't they entitled to express their opinions AA? Don't you cite various opinions yourself? Should I now go fishing through your old topics and find all the authors and articles you cite? Why should I believe what the Huffpost says. What credence should I give to the authors at Huffpost as they turn out their puff pieces? Why should I believe what the boys and girls are saying at Crikey? You often cite Crikey but why? To reinforce your argument or to stress a point perhaps? Consistency AA...it's early 2011 and already you show a lack of consistency.

Jason

14/01/2011Sir Ian, You gave me a hint! So the SMH is the only place I get my info from? Then you go on to say " Just how much grog did you throw down over the Xmas period? You should not drink if you can't handle it." Give me a time and place next week and I'll put you to the test! don't give me excuses put up or shut up! 0408827570

NormanK

14/01/2011Jason You asked some time ago about Tea Party resistance to Obama's Health Reforms and it seems that it basically comes down to politics rather than policy. The big health insurers and to a lesser degree the pharmaceuticals have resisted reform for decades because they have a stranglehold on the industry whereby they insure the healthy and find ways to drop the unhealthy as soon as they become a liability and in general have such high premiums that they effectively preclude access by the poor and the elderly. I'm only just coming to terms with how the US social welfare system operates as a result of the New Deal (FS might have a better understanding) but loosely speaking there seems to be a "future fund" of money collected from the public and set aside for all citizens to access as unemployment benefits, medicare and so forth. Part of what Obama proposes is to utilise some of this money to provide a public health insurance which is more affordable by low-income earners and the elderly and other disadvantaged. So big business has pressured the Conservatives to combat the reforms and in their typical style of attack they have promulgated lies and myths which push the buttons of ultra-conservatives. Public money used for the greater good becomes socialism for example. You might get more and better information from these two links : The Most OUTRAGEOUS Quotes From The Health Care Reform Debate http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/21/the-most-outrageous-quote_n_506288.html Health Reform Bill Summary: The Top 18 Immediate Effects http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/22/health-reform-bill-summary_n_508315.html#s75147&title=undefined As with so much of what they do, it ends up not being a policy debate but an argument over Obama's nationality, religion and far-fetched interpretations of his political ambitions. It is a classic case of the public voting against their own best interests because they have been deceived by big-business-funded neo-cons.

Ad astra reply

14/01/2011Sir Ian Johnny B [i]et al[/i] can say whatever they like, but when you quote the comments of these bloggers that are adverse to Julia Gillard as if they had any import, you really have hit rock bottom. To use them as 'evidence' to support the views of Piers Akerman about Julia Gillard shows us all how bereft is your evidence-based approach. Published articles need to be assessed for credibility, which is possible if the author is named, the publication cited and if the references are verifiable, as they are in such publications as the [i]Huff Post[/i] and [i]Crikey[/i]. Johnny B posting a comment in a Birmingham blog hardly fills that bill. As usual you accuse me of inconsistency with your peculiar twisted form of logic. One thing you exhibit is the opposite - consistency: consistent lack of verifiable evidence, consistent lack of logic, consistent negativity. consistent absence of anything of substance, consistent lack of anything that contributes to the debate, consistent irritation of those who seek to participate in adult dialogue about important matters. Yes Sir Ian it is 2011, so do try a little harder to earn you place among the serious bloggers here, and if you can't, please give [i]TPS[/i] a miss.

Rx

15/01/2011[i]What credence ought we give to Johnny B and others asks AA.[/i] Errant punctuation. [i]Why should I believe what the Huffpost says.[/i] Errant punctuation. See, two can play at GrammarNazi. [i]If you can’t do better than that in quoting what ‘some people say’, don’t waste our time here. ... do try a little harder to earn you place among the serious bloggers here, and if you can't, please give TPS a miss.[/i] You're being "given a hint" in polite, but not uncertain, terms by the owner of this blog and the gentleman who forks out of his own pocket for this internet address. Be a man, if you can, limpy, and take the hint.

Sir Ian Crisp

15/01/2011If you can’t do better than that in quoting what ‘some people say’, don’t waste our time here. ... do try a little harder to earn you place among the serious bloggers here, and if you can't, please give TPS a miss. Rx, you will have to be 100% perfect if you are going to be a grammar nazi. You should have presented AA's comment thus: If you can’t do better than that in quoting what ‘some people say’, don’t waste our time here. ... do try a little harder to earn you [sic] place among the serious bloggers here, and if you can't, please give TPS a miss. Regarding the rest of your post I'd advise you to pull your head in. Jason, you are in no way restricted regarding reading material. You can even read Pravda is you wish. Don't flatter yourself about being able to handle grog. I think you mentioned that your wife had to collect you after a 'session' so that would be an indication of your responsible attitude to booze. Just think of those beer companies making all that profit. Hell, those beer companies might even be run by people who vote Lib-NP. How would it be if those companies donated $50,000 to the Lib-NP. You may be funding the Lib-NP camorra. What a thought. I knew you were a closet conservative.

TalkTurkey

15/01/2011What we have here folks is more than a simple failure to communicate. They WILL not see. There IS no way of dealing LOGICALLY with THEM. They make utterly nonsense claims, then when challenged sleaze away from replying and just come up with new simplistic nonsense. It is more than accidental, it is a timeworn and rewarded technique practised exclusively by the Rotten Right. I have witnessed it all my life. We still haven't come to grips with it, indeed we really haven't even been able quite to believe that around a half of people in Western countries are sort of content to accept being blinkered and dumbed down by these people, when their utterances are so transparently stupid (Build More Dams! Stop The Boats!) and they are utterly without credible means of achieving their idiot brain-farts, and when they do get into power, which they should NEVER get, and DO, far far too much, then they show their real colours, by looking after their few mates to the detriment of everybody else. They DON'T look after that 50+% who voted them in, they don't build infrastructure, they cut back on education (even in trades), EXCEPT for their outrageous support for fancy private schools, the fancier the more outrageous. Medical services parallel that. They are wholly despicable, entirely self-interested, unremittingly dedicated to their own agendas, and decent people just haven't ever really quite believed that. Well, they are. We're not talking about benefitting 50% btw. We're talking only those who are really sitting pretty, the system exists for them and they have such power and such economic clout that as a class they are self-perpetuating. They live in leafy plush suburbs and desirable circumstances, for which I don't blame them, but the way they guard their privilege sickens me. As a class they shed members and recruit others, it is not an entirely hereditary system, but the class always remains. Most importantly, they have the legacy of British class rule, it's still very much an uppercrust society, and it has Murdoch as its champion, worldwide in general but in Australia in particular, it's his very own country after all, even though he's now a Yank. Rupert loves Australia, my home town Adelaide most particularly, it's where he got his start, and it's the only country he truly fully owns. Abbortt is his protégé and pawn, they all are really on that side all around the world, but they are also his dupes, he is the only real beneficiary of his own efforts. When Rupert plays Monopoly he does it for controlling interest in countries: America, of which disgracefully he is now a citizen, the UK, where I understand one of his sons is a citizen, and China, a national of which he has married and who heads his operation there, but he has always OWNED Oz, of which his other son is a citizen too I believe. Makes your eyes water eh. And he came from my home town of Adelaide, boy it makes me proud. Comrades, we must seriously address this weirdest of techniques. We had absolutely no idea as to how to handle Bjelkeism, who made a virtue of having no idea of the meaning of the doctrine of the Separation of Powers until his dying day, and we have not yet found a way of dealing with dopey Abbortt, let alone the magnificently sly Murdoch. The Right has no intention of addressing issues on the basis that we think they should, namely logic and evidence, they run with scare tactics and obfuscation, and and and, and You-all know what-all. Not truth, and not information. Now, Limpy, jj, Colon and their ilk are the dupes of the dupes. Under-educated, bigoted, and in false consciousness, they are the hand-reared-and-trained products of the system of the rich and privileged, bell wethers and sheep dogs, and attack dogs too, for the rest of the society. COWLLIGULA’s different, he seems a sort of grizzled bovver-boy afa I can see, just kicking blindly and incomprehensibly where and whenever, he’s a no-account even to the Rotten Right, but he suits himself anyway. He’s too much of a loner to be a foe. Unpleasant, but. Well, the thing to do, be sure, is to feed them nothing but derision. Ad astra, Skelly, even Jason, you take them far too seriously. They’re just not worth it, they aren’t solid excrement, only fleeting floating flatus, and we can afford to hold our noses and laugh, instead of taking issue with them. I love poking fun at them. They are not THEM, THEM are their masters, these pathetic little political rag-dolls are just fun to punch and chuck around and pull arms off like Mr Bean’s teddy. Not to address with decent argument as you would if they made any half-sensible contribution, that gives them some apparent patina of credibility. They would love to be important but they aren’t. And they are DUMB. They have been disappointingly hopeless at countering any of my witty jibes - [“(Colon should be made to wear a sign on his BACK, “DANGER – Do not strike a light while I am talking” )- now THAT’s Funny!- if I have to say so myself . . . ] Oh I laughed! . . . And a good technique is to COAT them, i.e., turn one’s back on them, as in Monty Python “fart in their general direction”, not address them directly, only talk of them in the THIRD PERSON. I would lose a lot of my impetus to write on this blog without them, and like Limpy’s latest effort with Jason, saying that by drinking booze Jase is supporting THEM (and Limpy might actually nearly have a point there!) well I bet Limpy must love the thought that he and his ilk are immensely stimulating The Political Sword! Anyway now that I have revealed my genuine identity as Lord LiarBird, I require of Sir Ian Crisp that he address me as My Lord, being as he is of the lesser peers. I pee much higher than he. Anyone else can call me TT or just the Gobbler, I care nought. But if Crisp fails to address me correctly, my friends at the Palace will insist on having his knighthood struck off.

Hillbilly Skeleton

15/01/2011I just think that SIC exists in a vortex of anal retentiveness. Ever spinning in his self-justified universe. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

15/01/2011Just to balance the selective quotation from John Birmingham's blog a little bit: 'It would be nice to think the goodwill created here might carry on as a reward for her efforts, but John Brumby still suffered defeat despite strong leadership during the vic fires. Poor old Julia, she could be piloting a rescuse helicopter, or rescuing puppies while wading neck deep in water and people would still whinge about her voice, clothes, hair...' horustheking | Sydney - January 13, 2011, 7:24AM Gee, you're a bitchy bunch! I agree Gillard has yet to find her feet generally, BUT, she can't be expected to land in another state in the middle of a disaster and seem on top everything. That is the Premier's job and is would have been wrong for Gillard to have tried to pull rank. There is little Gillard could do but put in an appearance because if she hadn't you lot would have been complaining because the Prime Minister of the country should have been present at such a disaster. Get a life you lot !!!!!!!!' Damian | Hobart - January 13, 2011, 7:27AM 'Yep, just forget the inconvenient bits where the PM ranged around evacuation centres meeting and stopping to talk to people, where the 'Real Julia' shone. Or the standing ovation she got in Rockhampton after a heartfelt speech she gave to a room full of residents. Just concentrate on a Press Conference. The rest doesn't fit the script, eh bud? I agree she needs to break out of 'Schoolteacher' mode at Press Conferences, but have you thought that she may not be wanting to rain(ahem) on Anna's parade? Also, when you are confronted, as she is on a daily basis, with the disgusting behaviour of the Press pack towards her, with their vile attempts at 'Gotcha!' questions, I'd be on the defensive constantly, and not completely 'relaxed and comfortable', either.' Flubber | Wherever I Want To Go - January 13, 2011, 7:21AM 'I suppose someone has to be the first to say things like this, but can we wait a bit before the shit-fight starts?' Finally, we have a comment from the 'Bitchy Queen' segment of the blogosphere: 'I have been watching the tragedy unfold on TV. Very grim but full of patriotic spirit. Anna Bligh has been remarkable in her leadership and sincerity. The PM on the other hand is a bad actor, looks weak, is badly dressed and presents badly. Change the boring hairstyle, add some colour to your make-up, stop gesturing as if you are conducting an orchestra and speak from your heart. No, you can't "just say". Mean it.' I'm amazed SIC didn't have it lined up as first cab off the rank. :) Edmund | Sydney - January 13, 2011, 7:31AM BillR - January 13, 2011, 6:57AM

Hillbilly Skeleton

15/01/2011here's a more balanced pov about Julia Gillard's governing style and how she has come over during the flood crisis from Shaun Carmey: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/lessons-for-gillard-20110114-19r8m.html

Hillbilly Skeleton

15/01/2011After reading this article, and, yes, it's comments, you get a better idea about the idea of building dams to cope with flood events: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/building-more-dams-is-no-way-to-prevent-flood-catastrophe-20110111-19mkm.html

NormanK

15/01/2011Since the "wooden" Julia has been elevated to significant talking-point status, could I offer this article as a sensible middle ground. [b]Lessons for Gillard[/b] [quote]This rigorous self-editing on the part of the Prime Minister can be explained at least in part by two things: her status as the first female prime minister and the way in which she came to the Labor Party leadership. Like Barack Obama, who knew that the moment he lost his temper in public he would be dismissed as just another angry black man, Gillard has calculated that she must always appear to be in control of herself, lest she be cast as a harridan. ...... Gillard clearly has committed herself to setting a tone for her government in which proper process and low temperatures, and not high emotions, predominate.[/quote] http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/lessons-for-gillard-20110114-19r8m.html On the floods, where there is a plethora of articles, this one stands out for me. [b]The price we pay for being Australian[/b] [quote]Meanwhile, all will be trying to make sense of extraordinary events ........... They will do so with mixed success, mixed involvement, mixed motives and emotions, reflecting the seemingly capricious, even cruel, way in which nature ''picks'' winners and losers. ..................... As Derek Aspinall, who witnessed the 1974 floods and walked down to the river to witness the 2011 version, says: ''Ultimately it's the price we, well at least some of us, must pay for living in Australia.'' he said. ''It is a wet, dry country.''[/quote] http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/the-price-we-pay-for-being-australian-20110114-19r8s.html Sit back and watch what happens when some politician gets in the middle of these "mixed motives and emotions" and injects a lethal dose of the Right to be angry. Someone MUST be to blame! Right? Thank Dog for the likes of Derek Aspinall.

NormanK

15/01/2011Skeletos Great minds and all that. Our Shaun Carney posts overlapped. Thanks for the Willem Vervoort link.

Hillbilly Skeleton

15/01/2011NormanK, Still shadowing me. :) I am honoured.

Hillbilly Skeleton

15/01/2011I wonder if any of our perceptive journalists have thought to ask Tony Abbott how much he personally has kicked in to the Queensland Premier's Flood Appeal?

NormanK

15/01/2011FS Shadow? SHADOW?? Leos don't shadow. Okay, I might be leading from one or two paces behind you but shadow? Never. Just been reading my way down this page and I haven't seen a health update from you. I trust you are returning to you former fleshless good health. With regard to the Vervoort article, it would seem that out in the public sphere (comments section) a dam is a dam is a dam. Nothing could be further from the truth. The whole discussion of flood mitigation measures over the next twelve months should prove interesting regardless of whether they become politicised.

Hillbilly Skeleton

15/01/2011NormanK, OK. OK. As an Aquarian with Taurus rising I charged out in front of you. :) Yes, my health is almost at the stage of full repair. I'm just getting a couple of tests done next week to make sure that all the little greebies have left the body corporate. As for the Dam issue, it occurs to me that the Conservative Regressives just love to dumb down complicated subjects in order to remove the small, fine distinctions from an issue and reduce it to one of their 3 Word Slogans for mass consumption. Sort of like MacDonalds for the mind. Predigested, superficially attractive, but not good for your health.

NormanK

15/01/2011I have said earlier that it is the little things in life which matter and [quote]Sort of like MacDonalds for the mind. Predigested, superficially attractive, but not good for your health.[/quote] belongs in that category. At first glance a fairly obvious metaphor but able to be subjected to considerable analysis. That's a keeper. Henceforth, with your permission Professor, the unattractive appellation of "thought bubble" or "brain fart" will be replaced by "Big Mac". A "Chinese Big Mac" is one you find yourself craving on a regular basis regardless of how recently you've eaten one.

Hillbilly Skeleton

15/01/2011NormanK, Hmmm...Just another Big Mac moment...It has its possibilities. :)

NormanK

15/01/2011Well, after a festive season punctuated by stories of a pony dragged behind a car, a swan deliberately targeted by a jet-ski, elderly women sexually assaulted in their homes and so on, how refreshing was it to see literally thousands of volunteers turning up to assist complete strangers in their clean-up? I must be getting old because that vision brought a tear to my eye. Onya Queensland. They can make fun of our accents and call us rednecks but I stand proud in the face of all that today.

Bring Back Maxine

15/01/2011TalkTurkey @January 15. 2011 09:36 AM I enjoyed reading your post. Until then I had nearly given up on TPS. Over the last couple of months, it seemed to me that if I wished to enter in discussion with some of the other posters here, I'd would have been better to be a troll. They preferred to respond to the crap espoused by trollen' colen, crispy creme etc. I hope that TPS goes back to the way it was in the begining.

NormanK

15/01/2011Bring Back Maxine I for one am sorry to hear you express these sentiments. Address me by name or respond to one of my posts (favourably or unfavourably) and you can be assured of a response. Unfortunately, I have been treating you in the way I assumed you wanted i.e. occasional serious interactions with Ad astra or the thread author. A thread was dedicated to this topic last year. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2010/10/30/Why-are-we-here-on-The-Political-Sword.aspx

Hillbilly Skeleton

15/01/2011This is a very interesting development that may see some old Howard government MP's fur fly: http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/new-probe-into-habib-detention-20110115-19rkq.html

Ad astra reply

15/01/2011Bring Back Maxine You have always been a welcome blogger here. Your comments are always sensible. Perhaps the problem is that the comments of what you describe as 'the trolls' are often so outrageous as to provoke immediate comment in response from indignant bloggers here. Be assured your comments are respected, even if they do not evoke a response. Please keep coming back. The Christmas New Year period has been unusual this year because [i]TPS[/i] did not close down as in previous years, but kept a thread open to allow discourse to continue. We will resume on 1 February. For my part, I have not been so active during this period as I have tried to get a break. Best wishes for 2011.

Hillbilly Skeleton

15/01/2011Bring Back Maxine, I'm in shock. That's all I can say. I have been ever since I read your comment. I'm sorry, but I just thought that when I agreed with someone's comment, I left it 'unattacked', so to speak. Anyway, I thought I had responded to your posts on a regular enough basis. Sure, not all of them, but then not all of mine get responded to either. :(

TalkTurkey

16/01/2011Bring Back Maxine Thank you for the kind words, and I'm glad to help keep your interest happening, but there are many who contribute to TPS who are my mentors in research and perspicacity, peregrinating into areas I have never even considered, and having contributed over far longer than I have. That last is a very pertinent consideration: like this: For many years I was a primary-school-teacher like so many others, 200 days a year, 7+ hours a day, 5 days a week with the same kids, and even Jesus who said Suffer little children to come unto him would have had trouble keeping their interest up. Then for several years I became a "non-contact" primary-science teacher, spending a couple of hours each week with each of the classes, R-7, and LO! It was so-o-o-o much easier, kids didn't get bored, I just had to keep fresh stuff happening and I was well-liked by them. Other teachers told me admiringly, even enviously, how much the kids looked forward to my lessons, which kept me on my mettle all the time too of course. I felt a bit of a fraud though, there were many other teachers whom if I had had kids at that school I would have preferred them to be in their classes rather than my own, if I had had to teach them 200 x 7 x 5. Compris? Likewise, I will probably not be able to maintain the pace I set myself on TPS only six months or so ago during the election campaign, whereas there are several writers who have been posting good stuff here for years, as I have found by looking back to the beginnings of TPS. To them I dips me lid. But if we can keep The Sword’s esprit de corps alive and well until Parliament resumes, we will be in fighting form to take on the Rotten Right in earnest, a responsibility to be taken very seriously. Your own contributions, are as other posters just above have observed, are very much cases in point. We all need you, as we need so many others. That’s why I say, Get Well Skelly, (noting that your recovery is proceeding well) Come Back Tweety, SOON, Keep in close touch Patricia WA, (presently in the UK), Keep coming back Bring Back Maxine, And BRING BACK MAXINE!

TalkTurkey

16/01/2011Skelly, Look hard at NormanK's Doubly-Delightful Rose Gravatar, can ye no' see a face? To me the Man in the Moon is clearer still. As I write he is in the third quarter, wearing a beret, but his whole face is visible. It's only trivia, but eternal trivia.

TalkTurkey

16/01/2011BBM Another analogy: The ALP has been around since before any of us. Sure, it is far from perfect, being made up of ordinary people like Ewen Mee, but its overall thrust is always towards the light. It has to weather crises and trials, and during some of them some people are always so disgruntled that, whether silently or vociferously, they sever ties with the Party. But it's so obvious, those are the very times that all good comrades are most needed. The Party is only as good as its membership. Hang in, the Coalition will only rejoice if you don't. TPS or ALP, we need the likes of you BBM to be staunch, courageous, outspoken, determined and tenacious.

TalkTurkey

16/01/2011Tune: Thank Heaven (for Leetle Girrrrr’lllz, a la Maurice Chevalier) Thank Heaven For Limpy Crisp! I love to pee on Limpy every day! Thank Heaven For Colon too; COWLIGULA, and juvenilejay: Their brain-pffaaahhhtts full of noxious gas and squealings I love to torch, and scorch their ( * )’s through their ceilings . . ! (hee hee hee!) Thank Heaven - I get such BLISS! - Thank Heaven for all Trolls, providing chances like this . . . There's nothing good as takin' the Piss! Took a little while but it was worth it. Decent SwordsFolk, have a happy Sunday. [Ridicule 'em, GOOSE 'em, COAT them, remember! Addressing them directly FEEDS them. 'Course, I'd actually be sorry if we did succeed in scraping them off like so much cat ordure . . . but more importantly AA and FHS and others would be pleased. COAT 'em, talk about them in the third person if you wish but don't address them directly, and even if they stick with us like the parasites they are, they won't get much juice . . . 'specially from Skelly . . . ]

Rx

16/01/2011I second TT's call to mock the RW trolls and refer to them in the third-person. Respect has got to work both ways; if they come here to abuse and derail we don't need to waste words and databytes indulging them. Civility of discussion has been a hallmark of [i]The Political Sword[/i] since its inception. Let's give a cold and derisory shoulder to those who seek to antagonise that spirit. Onward and upward, Good Swordsfolk.

Hillbilly Skeleton

16/01/2011Talk Turkey, Erm, when I look at NormanK's gravatar all I can see is a genetically-modified Rose. A beautiful one, albeit, but a Frankenstein of the Rose world, borne out of Science's ingenuity, all the same. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

16/01/2011Rx, It's hard not to address blatant attempts at disinformation. I just keep remembering that traditional incantation from after WW2..."When they came for the (insert victimised group of humanity), I said nothing." Thus, as I consider Progressives under attack from the Regressives, I feel the need to metaphorically stand up to defend our patch, lest it be swamped with their propaganda pogrom to eliminate us.

Ad astra reply

16/01/2011 Folks Bring Back Maxine’s comment has evoked quite a discussion here. It begs the question about how we respond to those who come here to express an opinion different from our own. Do we pay them too much attention, perhaps leading to our not responding to others? I agree with H/FS that we need to respond to disinformation and outrageous assertions, and in many instances those perpetrating them have met us part way in acknowledging that we have a point. For example, jj and colen have shown this willingness. But Sir Ian Crisp is one who seems reluctant ever to concede a point. I’m trying to remember if he ever has – I’m sure that if that is so he will be quick to inform us. He writes as if he is certain he is always right, and pedantically so to boot. Now that is irritating enough, but what is far more irritating to me is his almost continual denigration of Julia Gillard, his Bird of Paradox. Most recently he dredged up comments from Piers Akerman of all people, along with bloggers on the Birmingham blog site to support his claim that some were saying her recent press conferences were ‘wooden’ and insincere. Why he thinks this type of comment is worth posting is beyond me. We all know his distaste for Julia; is he trying yet again to prove his point that she is a worthless leader? If so, he ought to be aware by now that he has likely convinced no one here and is unlikely to do so. Yet he persists in irritating us with such comments – perhaps that is his primary aim. If irritating us is his aim, as I suspect it is, from now on I for one will ignore his comments unless and until he contributes something positive and helpful to the debate. I suggest others who are similarly irritated consider doing the same. Another habit of Sir Ian is to hurl personal and hurtful insults at others, which sometimes provokes vigorous retaliation. As Rx points out, civility has been a hallmark of [i]TPS[/i]. So as we move into another year of political comment, let’s embrace civility again and ignore those who decline to be civil to others who comment here.

TalkTurkey

16/01/2011Skelly . . . Erm . . . Roses as we knew them in our younger days, e.g. Lorraine Lea, were already the product of genetic interference by humans, most particularly just in the last 200 years when English breeders crossed the little single European dog-roses (Dog, yes!) with the tiny Asian budlike roses, creating wonderful large fragrant variants in all the colours we now know. Very recently, direct genetic engineering, hybridising and shifting genes around, has created even more varieties, and Double Delights are one of the loveliest, in perfume as in appearance. I gave one to a friend in Sydney Town for putting up with me for a week, it is the gift that keeps giving and she loves it. So . . . don't give Double Delights a hard time . . . They are only pretty faces and sweet smells, like the "sounds and sweet airs" on Prospero's island in The Tempest, "they give delight and hurt not." Me, I like genetic base things best, Dingoes, Sturt Peas, wild green Budgerigars, but you gotta hand it to roses for grow and show. "NormanK you've got a loovley Gravatar . . ." Oh and Skelly, my very word let us continue to assail them mercilessly with our wit and ridicule, but they are unworthy of serious countenancing, and they will NEVER acknowledge defeat in proper argument. They just aren't worth letting get to you. Did you know that our ally Ridicule brought about Bonaparte's defeat at Waterloo, surely the most iconic of all defeats? Like this: French engineers approached him years before with the idea of building a fleet of steam-powered warships, and Napoleon was minded to do it too, but the idea was so derided that he abandoned it. He'd've prob'ly won if he'd stuck with it. "And that's how Napoleon met his Waterloo!" COAT 'EM say I. Trolls aren't human, after all. Sure, ridicule their every effart,(TOO easy!), but don't address them directly, you KNOW they'll HATE that!

Bring Back Maxine

16/01/2011AA I tried to post the following in the wee hours of this morning but the comments weren't saved. "NormanK, AA & HS My previous comments evolved from the following concerns: 1) The outrageous comments made by some posters here (trolls in my book) suck up far too much oxygen from the excellent discussions that have taken place here. I'm concerned that this excellent site may go the way of others with flame wars, sledging, etc. In other words, to have the credibility built over the past couple of years diminished. In a way, these trolls are undermining the important leadership role that TPS plays in the Fifth Estate's battle of political ideas. I believe that this is deliberate. 2) TPS is one of the few sites in Oz where well researched and reasoned political ideas & topics are presented. These are finely honed by the discussion (with wit & humour) that follows, making the sword even sharper!! It is my belief that those in the political class do take notice. (How much they take on board is another matter!). TPS is a forum (part of the citizen media) where individuals can have a say and make a contribution to political discourse in this country. To have this subverted by slugging matches with trolls is a worry. Who sets the agenda? I don't want to see TPS go the way of other sites where to find decent political discussion amongst the flame wars and ego trips of a lot of bloggers, one spends more time scrolling than reading! I hope that TPS (like Grog’s Gamut) remains a must read/visit for the political class. 3) I realize that moderation is required which is time consuming. Perhaps with the Festive Season, your time in this respect has been constrained, AA. However, as a political junkie I love TPS. I don't want see the Sword diminished in anyway. I realize also that my contributions in comparison to yours, HS's, Lyn's et alia (which are all 200%+) are in the fractions of 1%, that I have no right to say , especially to you AA, on how this site should be run. My intentions are honourable and I have the best interests of TPS at heart. I'd like to say more but I'm too tired, no wonder its 1am way past my bedtime! It is not about me, but about my fear where the Sword is going." In response to this morning posts: TT Thank you for your kind words. Of course I'll never give up the fight. However, I'd like to hone my political arguing skills to do my bit! Continuing from the above: 4)The trolls have nothing to contribute, instead of presenting a counter argument, they prefer to "play the man and not the ball".I found particularly offensive, SICs personal attacks on HS and her recent illness. Rather than respond, I'd like to see them banned. It is bad enough that we have to endure the personal attacks on our government representatives by the "regressives" (nice term btw HS!) in MSM, but on the TPS as well? I'd love to see what someone with the likes of Jon Stewart would make of the Charisma Contest between Anna Bligh & Julia Gillard that the MSM has been pushing. Anyway let 2011 be the year where the "regressives" feel and fear the cold steel of TPS.

NormanK

16/01/2011Bring Back Maxine I couldn't agree more. No qualifications, no caveats. I could cut 'n' paste your whole post, whack my name on the bottom and publish it with pride. For my part. I apologise if I have put you into the wrong "pigeon hole". As I said last night, as a product of reading back-issues of TPS I had assumed that you were most comfortable interacting with Ad astra and headline authors in a "serious" way and less inclined to indulge in the banter and to & fro that others revel in, myself included. My mistake. It comes in part from not wanting to degrade the high tone of the site which has attracted long-term contributors such as yourself and particularly (since it is not my site) I would not like to think that I have contributed to alienating serious reader//writers who have given AA faithful long-term support. I do believe that the two types of discourse can exist within the same space and that, trolls and madmen aside, the current mix is pretty good so long as we revert to weighty matters on a regular basis. Let me reiterate, address me by name or remark on one of my posts (even if it is to take me to task) and you may be sure of a response.

2353

16/01/2011I agree with BBM, if AA's software can't temporarily or permanently "ban" those that don't contribute meaningfully, we should ignore comments that play the wo/man rather than the subject - something which Crisp does regularly. We should also ignore red herrings by letting the matter go through to the keeper. In the long term AA may be faced with a hard decision if the site becomes more popular - either discontinue TPS as it is too labour intensive or appoint some moderators to assist. I wish him well with that problem.

NormanK

16/01/2011In some ways, for me at least, this is the bread and butter of TPS. Kevin Rudd has made world headlines with his efforts to assist members of his electorate before, during and after the floods. [b]Brisbane floods: Kevin Rudd treated for foot injury after flood efforts[/b] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/8261943/Brisbane-floods-Kevin-Rudd-treated-for-foot-injury-after-flood-efforts.html Only the most cynical die-hard Regressive would attribute his efforts to glory-hunting and publicity-seeking because he has been out there day after day lending a hand for no other reason than that he is able-bodied and infused with good community spirit. Media managers all over Australia will be drooling over these images, their hearts green with envy. There may have been some small part of Rudd's political brain which acknowledged the presence of a camera occasionally through the day but by all reports he has worked tirelessly during their absence as well. The spirit captured by these cameras will last a very long time. After all this is our former Prime Minister, our current Foreign Minister, out and about in wellies and practical clothes (better PR if he had been wearing a hat), getting his hands dirty. This is something he could not have done as PM and no comparison should be drawn with Julia Gillard who has a profoundly different role to play. This type of photo is what PR people are trying to imitate when they put Tony Abbott in a tip truck and have him dump a load of gravel. The message : Abbott is a working man's working man, not afraid to get his hands dirty and you could reasonably expect to see him down the pub with Jason and his mates after a long day at the coal-face. So too images of him filleting a fish (poorly), lugging a box of something from here to there (as an aside, the box was probably taken from "there" to "here" so that it could be lugged with the best available camera angle and lighting) or trying to sell a hand of bananas to a reluctant customer. For all of the connection to reality that these manufactured photos have he might as well have been Photoshopped into them and thereby not put his fingernails at risk. If during this crisis Abbott had behaved as Rudd has done and mucked in, he would have earned a great deal of credibility so that future artificial shots of him lending a helping hand would trigger memories of the times when he really did help out. As I wrote that sentence, I had a vision of Abbott in gumboots swinging a mop and the moment the media turned up he would have been mugging for the camera. A little self-deprecating joke (heh heh), a patronising (dirty) hand on the shoulder of the recipient of his beneficence or a playful call for the media entourage to come and join him in the muck pool. Altogether unconvincing. (Sotto voce) "Are they gone yet? Can I get out of this shit?" To be fair, both sides of politics indulge in photo opportunities but the last election campaign was dominated on the Conservative side by images of Action Man doing what Men do and with vigour. For all of about twenty seconds. Journalists and editors might shrug and say "that's just the way it is during an election campaign" but that is simply not true. Show us the vision captured ten seconds either side of the golden moment and we will see just how artificial and stage managed the whole event was in actuality. One of my favourite moments of the last campaign was Abbott playing footy (for keeps) with a bunch of kids and his aside to his minders : "running, they want more running". The sole and entire purpose of the exercise was to put Abbott, some kids and a football in front of the TV cameras. We can do with a whole lot less of that sort of stuff. Again, to be fair, no doubt there are a great many on the Conservative side of politics out and about doing their bit. I rarely paint with a broad brush. My point here is that the grumpy nerd has out-ironed the Iron Man when it actually comes to the crunch.

Bring Back Maxine

16/01/2011NormanK There is no need to apologize and thank you for your kind words. I'm more of a lurker who posts occasionally. Let us focus on countering the misinformation espoused by the regressives in the MSM and blogosphere. Let us aid one another in this pursuit with additional argument & fact and even constructive criticism. More importantly let us fiercely hold the Opposition to account, especially those "Big Mac" moments! 2353 Thanks for your support in dealing with the trolls that unfortunately pop up here at times. In relation to discontinuing TPS at sometime in the future due to increasing malign traffic. NO NEVER!! I suggest that better software be investigated. I'd be happy to donate to defray the cost as I'm sure many other Swordians would as well.

Hillbilly Skeleton

16/01/2011NormanK, Sorry to nitpick the beautiful picture that you painted comparing the reality of a Labor politician mucking in in real time, compared with the artificiality of the stage-managed to within an inch of their lives, Conservative Regressive politicians(to which I must add Julie Bishop's sandbagging effort but only for a little while I bet-didn't want to break a nail!), but Kevin didn't have the requisite gumboots on! He was a little bit reckless and had runners on with short socks and his pants rolled up to his knees, thus exposing a fair bit of delicate white flesh to the greebies and flotsam and jetsam in the swirling brown tide that sluiced aroung from street to Griffith electorate street. All I hope is that he doesn't get a tropical ulcer out of the whole affair. They are nasty+++ Also, it is my fervent hope that the verbal bomb-throwing in the media does not start too soon and based around the conflation of many of the Right Wing memes that are currently going around the internet in chain mails, so as to paint a picture of the effort by various levels of government that are Labor which is just not true. Honestly, I often wonder when the general public will finally get sick of the antics of the Piers Akermans and the Alan Jones and the Andrew Bolts of this world. And then I read what posters like SIC have to say, and I realise that they just love it. So much to fill up the great gaping hole that is their lives. A hole in which there is no love, except for the pursuit of money and power, and no obvious sense of community with those they deem to be lesser mortals than themselves. They are all for patriarchy and elitism, and never for 'Egalite, Fraternite and Solidarite'.

tredlgt

16/01/2011 I read tps nearly daily to keep up with the comments and see what people are talking about. The original blog can throw up a great discussion and daily occurrences can add interesting sidelines . I am also saddened by the opponents of the site who constantly add meanness and incorrect statements into discussions for no reason other than to shit stir ,if it was humorous shit stirring it would be fun but these mean bastards just want to cause grief . Would it be possible to put the name of the poster at top of comment so it can be ignored rather than start to read and get pissed off. Although the avatar is displayed I dont know them all ,other than AA HS etc. Please do not consider discontinuing TPS it is to important. Thanks for a great blog and best wishes for 2011.

NormanK

16/01/2011Hillbilly Nitpick away. I was basing my comments on the photo that accompanied the Telegraph story where he was wearing gumboots. Obviously he was less than clever on a previous occasion and got himself an infection. I didn't see the Julie Bishop sandbag photo op, perhaps I should hunt it down. I made the mistake this morning of starting to read Ackerman's latest diatribe but couldn't get past the first few paragraphs. It's all well and good to be critical but when the opening premise is that the subject of your bile (Gillard//ALP) is that they are completely incompetent and have been for years - include here handling of GFC - then you've lost me as a reader. Brisbanites, Queenslanders and Australians more generally can hold their heads high for their response to the current crisis and it would be a wicked witch indeed who seeks to burst that bubble of pride before the task is closer to completion.

Hillbilly Skeleton

16/01/2011tredlgt, You are a sweetie! :) Rest assured, Ad Astra and I, and hopefully some others(hint! hint!, BB), have plenty of good things planned for 2011. We have to 'keep the bastards honest' who try to give the electorate the impression that they are keeping the government honest!

Ad astra reply

16/01/2011Folks Thank you for your comments about [i]TPS[/i] and your wish for it to continue, but [i]sans[/i] uncivil remarks. BBM, I doubt if it is possible to create software that could automatically detect and eliminate such remarks. It would be possible I suppose to have a list of unacceptable words, but how could one detect the slurs and insults that Sir Ian Crisp directs at other bloggers? They do not incorporate bad language; they are simply unbecoming. The only way to eliminate them would be for me to sit by the computer most of the day and delete them as they arrive. The end of year period is one that I devote to family who come to our seaside home for a break, so I usually close down [i]TPS[/i] over this time. But this year many requests were made for a continuing thread and Hillbilly Skeleton kindly provided material to keep it going while I took the opportunity to take a break from the constant job of monitoring. Once the site resumes normal activity on February 1, I will keep an eye out for comments that seem inappropriate and delete them when they are over the top. This site is intended to be for serious political discourse, and is no place for personal insults directed at other bloggers, or flame wars. I expect all who use the site to treat each other civilly, and if anyone flouts this, instead of returning the insult in kind, simply ignore the comment until I get to it. I believe that attention seeking through inappropriate language can be reduced, even eliminated, by ignoring the offender. If what BBM suggests is correct, that the ‘trolls’ are deliberately trying to undermine [i]TPS[/i] with their unacceptable language and rude comments, it is all the more important that they not be allowed to succeed.

Hillbilly Skeleton

16/01/2011Wise words, Ad Astra, as expected. :)

Ad astra reply

16/01/20112353 Thank you for the offer to contribute to software that might eliminate inappropriate comment. As mentioned above, I doubt if it would be possible to create software that could detect insults and slurs directed at other bloggers. That is for personal monitoring; maybe the traffic is reaching the point where more than one monitor will be needed. tregldt Thank you for your kind comments. Fortunately there are not all that many ‘stirrers’ that comment here, so it won’t take long to recognize their Gravatars. For a start, take a look at the first three comments for this piece and you will see the rather severe Gravatar of one of the chief offenders, Sir Ian Crisp.

Miglo

16/01/2011I haven't read all the comments on this great thread yet, but browsing over the last half dozen I detect there are some worrying issues. Perhaps while I'm waiting at the airport later for another (delayed) flight from Adelaide I can get a start, and hopefully come up with some helpful ideas. The software I use at Café Whispers does an adequate job of filtering out spam and unwanted visitors, but I'm not so lucky at Australian Blog Sites where I've had to close comments because of receiving about 200 spam comments a day. The upside to that is that at least I'm getting lots of visitors. :) Anyway, here's this week's top pick at Australian Blog Sites: http://australianblogsites.com/?page_id=78

D Mick Weir

16/01/2011Hi Swordsfolk, Happy New Year to one and all ... hope Santa treated you all well. (Mrs Claus gifted me with a great toy, an e-reader, onto which I loaded John Quiggins Zombie Economics and another great book: At Home by Bill Bryson) I will tap together a (hopefully shortish!) summary of JQ's book for you in the near future. Suffice to say, for the moment, I was totally absorbed 'into it'. Having been a bit time poor and swamped with paperwork since I can't remember when I have only been able to lurk in the background but have found the posts [b](thanks heaps HS/FS)[/b] and comments interesting. While reading Zombie Economics, JQ alterted me to this from John Holbo @ Crooked Timber which I find describes some of our trolls and some commentators from the MSM aptly (my emphases added) "...is making a [b]standard rhetorical move[/b] which has no accepted name, but which really needs one. I call it [i]‘the two-step of terrific triviality’[/i]. [b]Say something that is ambiguous[/b] between something so strong it is absurd and so weak that it would be absurd even to mention it. [b]When attacked, hop from foot to foot as necessary, keeping a serious expression on your face[/b]. With luck, you will be able to generate the mistaken impression that you haven’t been knocked flat, by rights. As a result, the thing that you said which was absurdly strong will appear to have some obscure grain of truth in it. Even though you have provided no reason to think so." http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/11/when-i-hear-the-word-culture-aw-hell-with-it/

Hillbilly Skeleton

16/01/2011Some worthy blogs have been written by Andrew Elder at 'Politically Homeless' recently: http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/ I'd quibble with some of his assumptions, but I can never seem to get my comments through to the blog!

Hillbilly Skeleton

16/01/2011D Mick Weir, HAPPY NEW YEAR! Thank you for your kind words. I always operate on the principle that I am demystifying a topic that I choose without simplifying to the point of banality. Also, to generate comment and debate once that topic has had the wrinkles ironed out of it. Sometimes though, as with my putative next blog, I will go down a philosophical path. For which I will probably be condescendingly sneered at by the usual suspects. :) Book Reviews! Fantastic! I'm sure AA will be pleased that you have offered that to us here at TPS. Why didn't I think of that? Probably because I'm the sort of person who reads a page of a book and promptly falls asleep.

TalkTurkey

16/01/2011Dear Swordsfolks All, I have to do a bit of soul-searching wrt my own responses to trolls, even whacking them with the flat of the blade is stroking them a bit from their addled perspective, but no longer will I address them at all directly. Comrades please pick me up on this if I transgress inadvertently. They will not like being COATED, never directly acknowledged, QED. But I still want to have fun with them, we can play Keepy-Away with any ball they bring to school, never passing it back to them. Their balls are flat anyway, no pun intended but let it pass. I, and WE, have always left open to jj and even Colon the opportunity to lift their game, the rest of us are proper friends here and I'd far rather those two were ordinary civil contributors than the sneering toadies of the Rotten Right that they have opted to be hitherto. As for Limpy I do think he is beyond decency. COWLIGULA is a special case, I'd like to have a beer with him one day to see if he is really as cuckoo as he projects. I'd rather make a comrade than an enemy, but a look in the mouth of COWLIGULA's HORSE does make one wonder if he too isn't a lost cause. Miglo, sorry to hear that spamming is so extreme on your site, but you can take it as evidence that you are worrying them. 'On ya Cobber. We are prevailing, yep.

D Mick Weir

16/01/2011Dear Swordsfolk, please be [b]warned[/b] the following links may contain statements that are [i]offensive[/i] (to some) and should only be followed by mature adults with a (very) [b]warped sense of humour[/b]. In my my meanderings through the interwebby thing I have stumbled across a site called [b]Uncyclopedia[/b]. I had several good laughs when reading an entry about a bloke they refer to as [b]'Moany Tony'[/b] http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Tony_Abbott As noted above [b]Be Warned [i]'some may be offended by this article'[/i][/b] :-) As I am a (marginally) balanced commenter I offer tis link as well: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Julia_Gillard

Hillbilly Skeleton

16/01/2011Here's a collection of Mr Denmore's blogs since lyn has been flying free away from TPS: http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/

NormanK

16/01/2011D Mick Weir Welcome back and Happy New Year. Great links to start 2011. What a hoot! Skeletos My new Gravatar is dedicated to you.

Miglo

16/01/2011I know a fair bit about trolls and online harassment. From Day 1 of Café Whispers I have been the subject of threats and savage abuse that has been extremely distressing for me. The threats were never made via Café Whispers but on other blog sites and in direct emails to me. This particular troll has also threatened to destroy Australian Blog Sites as well as Café Whispers. Why? Because he's a right wing troll who does not like seeing the blogosphere awash with opinions that differ to his own. This same troll has made below the belt remarks about TPS as just being another love-in site, but he didn't have the guts to post those remarks here; containing them instead to blog sites where his type of behaviour is tolerated. This troll will no doubt read my comments above and I will more than likely be treated to another drawn-out tirade of personal abuse. That's his game. He loves playing it. Why he'd want to destroy the sites I have created is beyond me. Perhaps it's just so typical of the trolls. In my opinion they are sick, twisted individuals who probably need some form of help in their everyday lives. Thanks to the software I use at the Café I am able to filter out email addresses of those posters who are not welcome. This seems to have turned them into raving lunatics who are even more intent on destruction, but the good thing is that they don't get through the walls I've put up at the Café. The best thing to do in my opinion is ignore them. They'll never go away, but they'll never be fed by us either. Ad astra, please don't give up on TPS. I can only speculate that the level of abuse, threats and harassment I have received is about as high as any blogger can expect. And I'm still here, more determined than ever. It's a pity that the trolls manage to waste so much of our time, but if we ignore them then they'll soon learn that they are wasting their own time too. By the way, in June last year I did a post on blogging and online harassment that the swordspeople might enjoy reading. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/blogging-and-online-harassment/

D Mick Weir

16/01/2011Hi NormanK only too happy to provide an occaisional light moment Hope you had a few good laughs :-)

TalkTurkey

17/01/2011D Mick Weir I am so-o-o-o offended by your link! You should be ashamed! Got any more? NormanK Your choice and dedication of your new Gravatar (I get it) is one of the cleverest sweetest gestures I have ever seen, you are poet of the soul. Skelly must be near tears, not to mention yours truly. Miglo Your post has gobsmacked me. I really had no idea that you (and others?!)were being so targeted, let alone so threatened. Bastards! I will be taking a lot more notice of Cafe Whispers and ABS from now on, it has that effect on me. I haven't read your June blog yet, will do ere set of sun. Yet, the most important thing is not Them, but that You can say "I'm still here, more determined than ever." Dog Almighty, We're not about to be intimidated out of our freedom of speech, or we die. What doesn't destroy us will most certainly make us stronger. United We Stand. Venceremos!

Hillbilly Skeleton

17/01/2011Ah, NormanK, now that's what I'm talking about! Thank you. :) Look at the perfection embodied in that natural Pink! In its neon luminescance you can see the perfection of Mother Nature. No man can create as well as that. True, humans have come very close, and I'm sure, as more knowledge is gleaned from the DNA that is Mother Nature's template then we will be able to mimic her. However, until that time, I will continue to stand in awe of Her. Actually, it reminds me of a guy I used to work with at Princess Margaret Children's Hospital in Perth. He was an Orchid breeder. So, every year when they flowered, he'd bring some of his 'babies' in to our office to put around the place(but really to impress us with his handiwork :) ). Anyway, even then I used to think that the manipulation and hybridisation that he performed was all well and good, but I personally used to appreciate the little Native Spider Orchids that bloomed naturally in Perth after the Winter rain were the bee's knees. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

17/01/2011'They' just want to intimidate us and make us fear them. It's their stock in trade. You don't know the half of what I had to put up with from other commenters on Jack the Insiders blog over at the OO. Abuse directed through me to my husband who was dying of cancer. Abuse directed at my Disabled son after a Little Miss Mean Girl spat on him on the School Bus. Not to mention the constant stream of newer and better insults dreamed up by the 'regulars'(who mostly seemed to fall into the category of White, Middle Aged, Wealthy, Alcoholic Queensland Males, as far as I could make out. The sort who made their fortunes as the 'White Shoe Brigade' Developers who sold the houses to people which were flooded recently). They play the game rough, and they play it to win. Civility just doesn't come into it. Just ask Acerbic Conehead. He used to comment over there too until he just had enough of it. I think I can speak for both of us when I say that we are both happier here. Sure, we have our resident Trolls. But they are as nothing compared to what I've had thrown at me elsewhere, and while I am confident that I still have 'Right', the real 'Right', on my side, I will continue on as if their threats and abuse have all the substance of smoke. Um, and also until they get censorship control over the Internet. ;)

Miglo

17/01/2011Thanks Talk Turkey. Yes, it was bad. Bad enough that I was quite reluctant to post last night's comment. But I alone haven't been the only target of the trolls, as some other Café contributors will attest - Nasking included. Some very good bloggers have given the game up because of the harassment and downright nastiness thrown at them. Threats of legal action have also been applied against me for the most innocent of utterances I may have released. It doesn't matter about the public denigration and humility they subject us lefties to, but don't dare talk back or out come the legal threats. About a couple of months ago I was on the verge of closing the Café as the stress just wasn't worth it, but hey, the battle we lefties fight for justice is worth it. Migs

Hillbilly Skeleton

17/01/2011Abuse, lying, installing fear and anger in the electorate, intimidation and Standover tactics, that's all the Regressive Right are good at really. Advancing the Common Weal they certainly ain't.

Ad astra reply

17/01/2011Folks I took off most of yesterday afternoon and evening to watch the cricket. It was a satisfying experience to witness Australia tackle a record target and overtake it in that last over thanks to the superb innings of Shane Watson who struck the first and the last ball of the innings. Now to address your comments. First, Miglo I was concerned to read of the personal harassment you have experienced as a blog site operator. You have picked up on the discussion we have had over the last few days about visitors here who seldom contribute anything positive to the discussion, and often hurl personal insults at other bloggers here. Considering your experience, we may consider ourselves fortunate to have relatively few of these. I have not had the impression that their offerings constitute a planned attack, but after reading about your experience, we should be alert to this possibility. There is no doubt that harassment of those who are not in the conservative camp is a feature of politics in the US. Fox News and prominent TV presenters such as Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh habitually denigrate Democrats, ‘liberals’ and of course Barack Obama, behaving as if they are Republican propagandists, and now the Tea Party is similarly pouring out its venom. Since the same media mogul who own the US Fox News network and many other media there, also runs much of Australia’s media, we ought to be alert to similar denigration here. I should mention that we had a bout of spamming late last year, sometimes hundreds arriving in a matter of hours. Although some were obviously from the same source, I did not gain the impression that it was a planned attack designed to cripple the site. The addition of the [i]reCaptcha[/i] facility has all but eliminated it. I went to [i]Café Whispers[/i] and read your article about [i]Blogging and Online Harrassment[/i] http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/blogging-and-online-harassment/ Anyone interested in the subject will find it well worth reading, particularly the categorization of blog trolls and how to counter them. The advice that rang a bell for me was: “[i] Don’t feed the trolls. Under no circumstances should you acknowledge the behaviour or repay it with anger or defensiveness. If you don’t react, they’ll get bored and go away.”[/i] I returned to [i]ABS[/i] and enjoyed reading [i]Citizen Journalists[/i]. http://australianblogsites.com/?page_id=76 I noted similar concern was expressed there about harassment: [i]”Blogging has profoundly influenced the nature of modern communication and obviously this doesn’t sit well with the traditional print media. The MSM have unleashed a ferocious and to some, a persuasive attack on the independent blog sites which are now holding them to account.”[/i] You have alerted us to the dangers of blogging – we shall be vigilant. I hope you will not be deterred from blogging; I am glad you have persisted. It seems to me that if a blog site is being attacked, it is a sign that its influence is upsetting the attackers, which is all the more reason for persisting. May [i]Café Whispers[/i] and [i]Australian Blog Sites[/i] continue to prosper.

Rx

17/01/2011Keep up the fight Miglo. You do well. Same goes for all good Swordsfolk.

Rx

17/01/2011Just saw your post, Hillbilly. I admire your tenacity and strength of character. You're certainly correct: We've got "Right" on our side, the real right as you put it. All they've got is grubby self-interest and political extremism.

Ad astra reply

17/01/2011D Mick Weir Welcome back to [i]TPS[/i] in 2011. I see you are reading [i]Zombie Economics[/i]. I have it on order. Would you be able to write a review of it? When I update the site later this month, I could include a Book Review section. I looked at your links to [i]Uncyclopedia[/i]. I’m amazed that such sites can exist and that they are not sued by those subject to its unwanted attention. HS Thank you for the link to [i]The Failed Estate[/i] pieces over the last two months. http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ As usual, they are all worth reading. It is distressing to read what abuse you have suffered on other blog sites. It is regrettable that Sir Ian Crisp has targeted you on this site. This must and will stop. Unless self-discipline eliminates such comments, deletion seems to be the only solution. NormanK What a pleasant Gravatar you’ve selected – the epitome of beauty, peace and harmony.

D Mick Weir

17/01/2011[b]Zombie Economics - [i]John Quiggin.[/i][/b] A brief summary/review! I read ZE on my e-reader (thanks Mrs Claus.) which has some features like being able to bookmark and also copy quotes. This is way cool!! I got my copy here: http://www.amazon.com/Zombie-Economics-Ideas-Still-ebook/dp/B0046A9M72/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1295225280&sr=8-3 There are reviews that may be helpful and if you click on the hardcover version you can take a peek inside the book! The opening quote from the introduction: The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back. [i]—J. M. KEYNES, The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money[/i] tells me why, any of us, who want to engage in informed discussion of the political process would be wise to gain an understanding of a lot of what is contained in this book. JQ starts from the point that if we want to avoid another crisis which would more than likely be worse than the recent meltdown then we need to understand the ideas and philosophies that got us into the mess in the first place. He analyses 'market liberalism' or as it is more generally known in Aus 'economic rationalism' and the effects of this 'way of working' with a clear eye. There are five ideas that JQ deals with and each has its own chapter in which there is a history of the idea, how that idea may have been killed and, this is where the zombie part comes in, but came back sometimes with another name and could still came back to 'haunt' us again. Each chapter is wrapped up with a look at alternatives to the ideas of market liberalism and some suggestions for further reading. I have no doubt there will be those that are very cynical ad/or sceptical of JQ's analysis and propositions but for me he is 'right on the money'. While at times I found some of it heavy going as it got a bit technical and academic overall it is very accessible to the general reader and as I mentioned above to engage in informed discussion on our favoured topic of politics a better understanding of the ideas that are driving our political class will be gained by reading this book. I will leave you with this quote from JQ: [b][i]From the inside, ideology usually looks like common sense.[/i][/b]

Ad astra reply

17/01/2011TT Your comments about some of the less-than-pleasant bloggers here would be echoed by many others. If we all ignore unpleasant remarks about others who blog here, and delete the offensive ones; if we pay respect to seriously advanced arguments supported by evidence, even if contrary to our views, this site can continue being what it was intended to be – a site for serious, considered and civil comment about contemporary political matters.

Ad astra reply

17/01/2011D Mick Weir Thank you for the summary of [i]Zombie Economics[/i]. It looks like being a great read. I enjoyed the John Maynard Keynes quote. I shall use your review to initiate the Book Review section on [i]TPS[/i] when I update the site. I think I will now revert to getting it downloaded onto the iPad from Amazon.

D Mick Weir

17/01/2011Hi Ad and HNYE to you and the family, may it be prosperous and fruitful! I take your point on Uncyclopedia, yes, it sails too close to the wind in some parts. Humour and satire tho' are often the best ways to get a point across which is why I am a great lover of political cartooning in particular and while I squirm at some of the stuff I saw at UC I can read it with an eye toward finding the comic barb that may undo the more pretentious of the political class. [i]'Moany Tony'[/i] is now high on my list of appropriate nicknames for the Leader of the Opposition.

Ad astra reply

17/01/2011Folks [i]The Oz[/i] has sunk to new depths. It has published a piece by Niki Savva, Peter Costello’s previous press secretary, author and columnist, titled [i]PM could make up for her passionless performance[/i] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/pm-could-make-up-for-her-passionless-performance/story-e6frgd0x-1225988984426? She quotes some [i]”…extensive private research shows that she[/i] [Gillard] [i]already faces a monumental challenge in convincing people that she is up to the job of prime minister. The research, which covered a wide cross section of ethnic, social and financial backgrounds, shows Gillard has failed to energise either her own base, or convince sceptics that she knows what to do and how to go about it.[/i] Startling stuff, worrisome to Gillard supporters! But later she writes: “[i]OK, I confess the research was conducted by me, in discussions with friends, family and acquaintances to suss out their views of the government, and Gillard in particular.[/i] Can you believe it? Yes you can – it is in [i]The Australian - Heart of the Nation[/i]. This is why we need blogs like [i]The Political Sword[/i].

Jason

17/01/2011AA, I did see the Savva tosh this morning and decided not to bring her rubbish up! But now that it has, do we expect anything less from the Australian? Savva it would seem is nothing more than a gossip writer, and I would even suggest such is her "Talent" not one of the opposition members thought highly enough of her to hire as "media advisor" sums up what she has to offer! The sooner she is back employed haunting houses the better!

Miglo

17/01/2011Jason, I tend to find The Australian is far scarier than a haunted house.

Jason

17/01/2011Miglo, I agree with you, but if the foundation of the Savva article is based on nothing more than family friends and acquaintances! I ask why the editor would even publish it? he could've got more bang for his buck if there was say a news poll to go with it, that showed Gillard's numbers supported Savva's nonsense,but then again facts at the Oz are given scant regard at the best of times.

NormanK

17/01/2011I'm not sure how I ended up at the site linked to below but if one of your mottos is "know thy enemy" you might be interested in reading it. [b]Thou shalt not build dams - ever![/b] by Barry York [quote]To the Green mentality and ethos, changing Nature is destroying Nature, dams are an assault on the ‘delicate balance’ in Nature, an example of human arrogance going ‘too far’. In this regard, the Green mentality and ethos are quasi-religious.[/quote] http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11488&page=1 The article is well written but very poorly reasoned - no doubt AA and FS would have a field day taking to it with their red pencils. It is jam-packed with anti-green, anti-global warming rhetoric, makes no mention (indeed glosses over) LNP opposition to the Traveston Dam Project, instead laying the blame for its demise at the feet of the "greens" and a lungfish, a turtle and a cod. I put it up because it is a little recognised case-in-point for those of us who feel that religious belief has an unwarranted, unwelcome effect on policy-making and this article shows that it goes way beyond right-to-life arguments. York strongly believes that Man is top of the tree and therefore any action which is to the benefit of Man - regardless of its impact on lesser creatures - must always take priority. [quote]Like all dams, it (Wivenhoe) is an example of human beings changing the natural world, by unnatural means, into something very useful and necessary to us in terms of our needs, standard of living and future progress.[/quote] This is the antithesis of all that I hold dear and if followed to its logical conclusion, we (Man) have got about one to two hundred years ahead of us before we exhaust the planet's resources. I think we can expect more of this line of reasoning in the months ahead, culminating in "which is more important? A lungfish or a human life?" On the same topic but a different tack, if you found it difficult to understand what was being reported with regard to Wivenhoe Dam being at 190% capacity at the height of the Brisbane flood crisis (as I did) then perhaps this article will shed some light. [b]Brisbane floods: did the dams work?[/b] [quote]The full capacity of the dam is 225 per cent, with 100 per cent referring to storage of the region's drinking water supply and the excess above that meant for flood storage. The additional water is released in amounts and times that are manageable for the river system and its downstream towns.[/quote] http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/brisbane-floods-did-the-dams-work.htm

Miglo

17/01/2011Indeed, Jason. Ghosts and journalists for The Australian do have one thing in common: you can see right threw them. :)

Miglo

17/01/2011Through, not threw. :?

Ad astra reply

17/01/2011Jason, Miglo Thank you for your delightful comments about the Savva article. I’m about to submit an opinion piece to [i]The Oz[/i] that shows that Tony Abbott is regarded as a terrifying prospect for prime ministership. This is based on an extensive private survey that I did over Christmas of males, females, children and infants. But, like Savva, I’ve got a ‘confession’ too – I did my survey among members of my extended family – that should be about as representative a sample as Savva’s don’t you think? I'm sure the editor of [i]The Oz[/i] will welcome it with open arms to counter the Savva article in the interests of fairness and balance.

D Mick Weir

17/01/2011Go for it AA, Was your [i][b]extensive private survey[/i][/b] a Straw Poll? If it was don't admit it as, well some could confuse it with a Straw Man!!!

Hillbilly Skeleton

17/01/2011I've done some research across gender and ethnic lines today(well, amongst those who know or even care who Niki Savva is), and all the respondents say that Niki Savva should change her name to 'Old Vinegar Tits'. :) Honestly, she expects us to believe that her biased sample amounts to more than a hill of beans? I'm sure that she also regularly browbeats those members of her extended family who don't already support the Liberal Party until they do. Btw, who's she to comment on Julia Gillard's appearance? Has she looked in the mirror lately? Anyway, as I have been saying lately, the Right will be looking for any and every way to delegitmise Julia Gillard in the eyes of the electorate and the biased opinions of a former media officer for Peter Costello are to be taken with a pinch of snuff. I mean, how can you take her seriously when she has not taken the time to run the ruler over Tony Abbott as well? He is ripe for an honest critique by an objective observer. You won't find it anytime soon in The Australian, and especially not by Niki Savva. I wonder if she asked her extended family for an honest opinion about Abbott what their responses would be? Hmmm. It ain't gonna happen though. That sort of honest appraisal of both sides of politics equally is not even in the ballpark of The Australian's political agenda.

Jason

17/01/2011AA, As good a writer as you are I think you might have a better chance of having it published on the Australian sceptics web site http://www.skeptics.com.au/ Look forward to reading it!

Hillbilly Skeleton

17/01/2011Jason, I agree. Ad Astra should keep submitting his TPS blogs to The Australian as well. The constant rejection(I am confidently assuming), would be more than enough of a valid sample to prove how biased The Australian is.

Hillbilly Skeleton

17/01/2011Wow! That was quick! Lachlan Murdoch takes over control, with Jamie Packer, of the Board of Channel 10 at the end of last year. Tonight the missus, Sarah Murdoch, has got the gig as Co-Presenter of The 7PM Project. I just hope that it is not a permanent arrangement as I much prefer Carrie Bickmore. Still, as long as Gina Rheinhart doesn't get in front of the camera at CH10 I'll keep letting my son watch their shows. I, of course, watch the re-hashing of Opposition Talking Points on the ABC News at 7pm. :)

Ad astra reply

17/01/2011D Mick Weir, HS, Jason Thank you for your witty comments. If only Niki could read what we think of her ‘research', and her. Jason I think you’re right. Your comment led me to wonder if Niki Savva’s article might qualify for the [i]Australian Skeptics[/i] Bent Spoon award. But no, she’s way out of her depth compared with last year’s winner. The Bent Spoon award is a defence of science; Niki’s piece is so far removed from science, so insignificant, so paltry that [i]Australian Skeptics[/i] would laugh at such a nomination, don’t you think? HS That’s what Channel 10 feared. After mowing a couple of acres of grass this afternoon, I’m ready for bed. Good night.

BSA Bob

17/01/2011Re Savva's flummery mentioned above; a standard tactic she uses here is to get in a token slap on the wrist of her intended victim's opponent in order to fake an aura of sincere objectivity. She didn't make it.

Hillbilly Skeleton

17/01/2011Interesting documentary, 'Right America: Feeling Wronged', here: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/right-america-feeling-wronged/ This is a website that gathers good documentaries together for those interested to watch...if you have enough bandwith, a high enough download limit/month and speed. :) Of course, I must add that this documentary has its echoes in the sort of society that the Regressives in this country would like to create, and its reflection could be found in the rise of the proudly ignorant, informed by demagoguic polemicists, Tradie/Truckie Class under Howard.

Hillbilly Skeleton

17/01/2011It seems hard to believe but this article about the relationship between the Qld. floods and Climate Change was in Sydney's Daily Telegraph(home of Piers Akerman) today: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/our-changing-climate-has-brought-flood/story-fn6bmfwf-1225989006754

TalkTurkey

17/01/2011Miglo, and all Yous, Shocking as it truly is to learn of the aggravation to which you Miglo have been subjected, it's good to know about this sort of stuff, and to have some strategies ready in dealing with it if really bad stuff ever happens. We have seen how effectively and unanimously the Fifth Estate responded to that Thing's outing of Grog, just by our fury and our derision of Thing. (See? I genuinely don't even remember It's name - apostrophe intentional! - and please nobody ever mention it to me. By contrast Grog's name I didn't want know but will now never forget, and It has brought him much more power and acclaim. Yar Boo Sucks to It!) . . . But that won't actually help if one day someone - Dog forbid it be poor Gobbler! -should find h/self being proceeded against for slander or something. What should the rest of Us do then? – [Well, that is, provided that the said alleged offence was not obviously genuinely deliberately slanderous, in which case of course the offender should get no support.] But as an example, what would We do if the writer of the Uncyclopaedia article D Mick Weir referred to, which is indeed seriously light-heartedly naughtily disrespectful of “Moany Tony” Abbortt, were to find h/self the subject of litigation? Miglo, I don’t really concur with your opinion that Uncyclopedia “sails too close to the wind in some parts.” Close maybe, but not toooooo-ooo – or is it? It’s a deliberate taunt to THEM, and I love it, how could a legal system in Oz condemn anything so obviously pure satire? Good on the writer for needling Abbortt, challenging him really, and if he were to try to prosecute on the grounds of “false allegations”, can you imagine the field day We could have in the developments? Indeed if we didn’t blow Abbortt away in a Queentrap like that I’d be ashamed of Us. As you say “Humour and satire tho' are often the best ways to get a point across”, my own pov as I am sure you know. But hey, I caution any posters against really stepping over from penumbra to full shadow, it would be awful either trying to defend or having to distance oneself from someone, like Gobbler himself e.g., who had said something irresponsibly libellous. And obviously, Miglo, you have made it clear that that could happen. Ad astra too: “I’m amazed that such sites can exist and that they are not sued by those subject to its unwanted attention.” Well, we have been forewarned. I’d like to know more about the details Miglo, but dear oh dear these threats and persecutions sound so nasty, I understand you might have serious hesitation about saying more. What a disgrace! OK, but let them beware too. Courts are not in Murdoch’s thrall, though conservative they may always have been they’re in no-one’s pocket and they would take a dim view of demonstrable harassment. Very. But what would the rest of us be doing? Would we just stand back and gobble? Or would we MOBILISE, Comrades? (Gee that oughta get the spooks excited.) Would we not mount a fund-raising campaign to help defend a political libel case?! How many good Swordsfolk and ABSeses and Groggers etc could we prevail upon to dob in just a little? Count me in! Mony a mickle maks a muckle, and in the meantime we would make a lot of friends if we could be funny and clever, like the Chasers fr’instance almost. Clever, and funny. They are the key keys. Now, about not feeding the trolls. I do agree mostly, anyway to the extent that we never again address them directly and never take them even a little bit seriously. Why would we, when Limpy quotes Clackerman as an authority? Actually I think it is more than coincidental that they have had nothing to say for a couple of days while they listen anxiously to hear what we plan to do about them, they are hoping against hope that we will say something direct to them to distort or otherwise abuse, and when they do next, guess what? – We talk about them if we want but never to them, we steal their balls and take them home, although I think Limpy has none anyway, ’fact I think jj’s got more than he, and she’s a girl. But I do love rubbing itchy powder into them, right now I bet Limpy is scratching himself wondering what to do. But I can’t come at ignoring them completely, I have too much fun lampooning them, though they themselves never never say nothin’ clever in response. Anyway it’s what I’m good at, one of my few modest talents even, I can’t stop now. BTW the link to the Uncyclopaedia article which if Yous haven’t read it yet you should, thanks again DMW, is http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Tony_Abbott Miglo I have read your succinct June article on trolls in Cafe Whispers, and in particular I had to admire the incisive comments you quoted from one Mary Brandel. According to her, “they are characterised by having an excess of free time and are probably lonely and attention seekers who often see their own self-worth in relation to how much reaction they can provoke.” Now there I must confess to feeling a strange sense of empathy with trolls. I delight in knowing that people read my posts, especially when some respond, most especially when their comments show they agree and/or approve. But there is a big difference between me and trolls, and that is that I am essentially a Goodwillian, and they are Illwillians of course. Why I would want gratuitously to make enemies is quite beyond me, but Ms Brandel seems to have nutshelled the variou types of troll neatly. She says here are three types of blog trolls: 1.The Flamer: Does not contribute to the group except by making inflammatory comments. 2.The Hit-and-runner: Stops in, make one or two posts and move on. 3.Psycho trolls: Has a psychological need to feel good by making others feel bad. Given that we have just 4 trolly persons working for us, jj, Cowligula, Colon and Limpy, which category would Yous put them in? I reckon we’ve got 2 Flamers and one each of the other two, and they are fairly-well defined at that. "What do you think?"

Hillbilly Skeleton

17/01/2011Latest Grog blog: http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2011/01/political-flood-damage.html

Ad astra reply

18/01/2011Folks Thanks for your informative links, and TT for your entertaining exposition about Uncyclopedia and trolls. There’s a lot more long grass to mow, so I’ll be at it all morning. Back this afternoon.

Hillbilly Skeleton

18/01/2011Well, it looks like the Regressive media have found their hooks to hang Anna Bligh & Julia Gillard on. They've got their whined for 'Royal Commission', and I can feel confident they are lining up their scientific lapdogs of criticism, even as we speak, and will keep braying at the Queensland government until they are allowed to give 'their' side of the story to the Commission. Up until that time, of course, there will be plenty of 'Expert' commentary in their publications to generate sympathy in the wider public for their pov. It will become the old, 'Build 'em up, Tear 'em down' two step from the Murdoch media. Secondly, we have the 'Threatened Surplus' meme to hang around Julia Gillard's neck like an Albatross, from now until Budget time, and beyond to 2013, simply as an artifice to base questions of economic competence and credibility around. Of course, Tony Ahh...Butt will be allowed to come charging in to their media as a Fiscal Conservative White Night demanding cuts to their "Reckless Spending", so as to keep the Budget in Surplus, just like the good little Surplus fetishist he is. Of course, his cuts will only ever be suggested for those programs which benefit the less well-off in society, such as cuts to Trade Training Centres in Public Schools, Public Health cuts and Welfare to Work and tertiary Education initiatives for the less well off in our society. Then there's the Training of young, out of work kids to become tradespeople, and Public Housing initiatives. This can be guaranteed, as he has already suggested they go in his feeble attempt at a pre-election economic blueprint. Noteworthy also will be his complete avoidance of suggesting cuts to Howard-era Middle Class Welfare, or Means Testing of same.

Hillbilly Skeleton

18/01/2011They're already up to no good in the NSW State Coalitiion, and they haven't even been elected to government yet: 'Greg Smith tale gets murkier. I read with interest weekend media regarding the NSW member for Epping Greg Smith, his opposition to some local housing projects, his son Nathaniel's employment as a lobbyist at Hugo Halliday (odd employment choice for a plumber), Hugo Halliday's lobbying efforts for Tesmar Group (property developers) and Smith spending some of his publicly-funded communications allowance with Hugo Halliday where his son works for the production of four newsletters. What the story didn't mention was that Hugo Halliday proprietor Bill Pickering is a Liberal member of Ryde Council and chair of the council's development committee. The possibilities for conflicts of interest abound aplenty.'

Ad astra reply

18/01/2011Folks Another acre of long grass mowed – about two to go. Have you seen this week’s Essential Report? http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/essential-report/ Opinion polls are not of intense interest at this stage in the electoral cycle, but some interesting trends are shown in this week’s report. Although the TPP remains at 52/48 to the Coalition, as it was four weeks ago, Julia Gillard’s approval/disapproval rating has improved from 43/40 four weeks ago to 51/36, a net gain of 12 percentage points, and in the PPM stakes she is 47 to Tony Abbott’s 32, the best position she has been in since October. Tony Abbott has made no inroads as PPM; the closest he has ever got to her was 11 points behind. All this suggests that Julia is holding her own, and in the last four weeks improving her position. So much for the Niki Savva appraisal of Julia, and the Piers Akerman comments! The Report also gives Tony Abbott’s approval/disapproval rating, which has improved from 39/39 four weeks ago to 42/37 this week. There are also some interesting data about online purchasing.

NormanK

18/01/2011Who'd a thunk it? Just got an e-mail from an editor at The Australian to inform me that in the interest of fairness and balance they are going to publish my opinion piece on Tony Abbott in tomorrow's on-line edition. How excited am I? You lucky people get to have a sneak peak prior to publication. [b]Abbott struts to success - a peacock with borrowed feathers?[/b] Over the last twelve months, the Leader of the Opposition in Australia, the Right Honourable Tony Abbott, has out-performed the expectations of critics and supporters alike. Mr Abbott has unified his embattled Liberal Party and taken the long-established Coalition to within a hair's breadth of assuming power in the recent elections on a platform of fiscal responsibility and "real action". In an attempt to acquire a better understanding of this phenomenon, extensive private research has been undertaken to better determine the contributing factors in Mr Abbott's startling successes. Some of the feedback is predictable as it falls within party partisan lines but none-the-less some of the opinions expressed will come as a surprise to many long-term political pundits. Admittedly it was a limited demographic in terms of social and economic backgrounds but it did include a wide spectrum of nationalities and ethnic roots. Wops, wogs, murrays, spivs, slavs, towel-heads and individuals of African descent joined with white Anglo-Saxons to voice their opinions on the rise and rise of Mr Abbott (all-be-it with a bit of encouragement from the amber fluid). In vino veritas, as they say. Before you bombard the comments section with your cries of outrage, I should point out that wops, wogs, murrays, spivs and slavs wear these appellations with pride in this new multicultural society. Towel-heads are less enthusiastic but they know on which side their bread is buttered in a small community. As for our African friends, society has yet to throw up a suitable replacement for the "n" word and we are stuck with the cumbersome "of African descent" whenever we wish to lump all of their nationalities together as a group rather than take the time and effort required to establish their individual ethnicity. As a side note, it seems "black" is considered too broad and open to misinterpretation. Our survey group were unanimous in attesting that Mr Abbott required no tele-prompter or scriptwriter to assist with his enunciation of his many and varied three word slogans. Even when Abbott ventured into dangerous territory with four, five and six word slogans, it was generally agreed that he did so "off the cuff" so to speak and it was hard to imagine that there was a mysterious, anonymous hand up the back of his suit keeping him on message. Comedian George Burns had sound advice, for politicians especially, when he said: "Sincerity, if you can fake that, you've got it made." Everyone in the polling group believe Mr Abbott has it in spades. Such is the varied nature of the professions of patrons of the front bar of The Crown Hotel however that a lot of the mystery surrounding Mr Abbott has been successfully debunked during long and arduous polling sessions. The first illusions to be uncovered are Mr Abbott's stance and gait. Keith (plumber and long-term fan of Adam Gilchrist) has promulgated the theory that Mr Abbott has taken a leaf out of Adam's book by using ping-pong balls taped to his armpits to give him that "suitcase carrying" look so favoured by fitness fanatics and men of action. There is some contention among the group as to whether the third ball taped to Mr Abbott's body is a ping-pong ball or a golf ball. Many a long hour and quite a few graphic demonstrations have been given over to this debate but the overwhelming majority agree that some form of artificial enhancement is responsible for Mr Abbott's gait. The trick, it would seem, is to tape a small object to the perineum (the area just behind the testicles) which then serves several purposes. Firstly, it causes the individual to walk with a widened stance thereby giving the appearance of being muscle-bound in the upper thighs. Secondly, it increases cup size should the individual decide to play cricket or other sports requiring protection in this area. Unfortunately, it causes consternation in tailors trying to fit suit pants. An unwelcome side effect of this practice is that the wearer must never "slide" into a seat but instead is obliged to take great care in "placing" his bottom down. Alex (electrician) has some support for the theory that the so-called "third ball" is in fact stainless steel and fitted with electrodes to help produce the famous "heh heh" which normally precedes or follows a discriminatory or sexist remark. Mr Abbott's lascivious lip-licking could then be viewed as anticipation of the electric shock generated through the steel ball by his minders. One need only remember Mr Abbott's reluctance to defend Mr Hockey during a photo-shoot while his media advisor stood nearby with her hand in her pocket. Many a heh heh. This might also explain his reluctance to wade into flood waters. Bruce (costume designer for Queensland Ballet, retired) assures us that the flaps of Mr Abbott's suit coats will have small quantities of brown rice sewn into them, causing them to sway in an exaggerated manner as he walks thereby conveying an impression of pent-up energy and a high level of vigour. Chopper (dole bludger) has it on good authority (his cousin's boyfriend's ex-boss) that Advanced Hair Studio plays a large part in maintaining Mr Abbott's hirsute look on his torso and that PR advisors have convinced the Opposition leader that balding of the head is "in" at the moment because it is a clever symbolic mix of potent virility and sombre monk-like reliability. Local electrician Alex cannot be dissuaded from his belief that Mr Abbott's racing bike is painted with Solar Paint which drives a small electric motor concealed in the rear wheel. This has gained a great deal of credence within the survey group. So too the idea first put forward by Clive (gotta smoke mate?) that Abbott's wet-suit has buoyancy enhancing properties which unfairly assist him during races. The final nail in the coffin comes from the local cabinetmaker, Johnno, who attests that he has seen evidence that Mr Abbott has small carbon fibre threads inserted in his cheeks. Starting from the corners of his mouth, these threads supposedly travel up past his cheekbones, outside the eyes and behind the ears to ultimately join at the nape of the neck before a single strand runs down the spine and into his left trouser pocket. Mr Abbott's famous sh*t eating grin is attributed to these threads and with practice he can achieve anything from a subtle smile to a broad laugh simply by putting his hand is in his pocket. Johnno reckons that Mr Abbott's leer is all his own work though. By the end of the survey period (mid-November to mid-January) a clear trend had emerged whereby it could be safely said that the majority of participants held all of the above propositions to be true. So the next time Mr Abbott swaggers up to a lectern at a press conference, charms us with an engaging smile or carefully places his bottom on a church pew we should bear these facts in mind. Do we really want a ball-wearing, wire-pulling, cheating walking wig for a prime minister?

D Mick Weir

18/01/2011And over at Crikey Blogs, the Possum has finally found a dry spot and gives us an interesting look at what may lay ahead numbers wise: [i]'With the flood waters receding in Queensland – giving us our first real look at the size of the damage involved – it might be worth going back and having a bit of a squiz at what happened on the economic front immediately following the... Read more on the blog...[/i] http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/

D Mick Weir

18/01/2011NormanK methinks Hugh McKay should be looking over his shoulder with worry that you are outdoing him in Social Reaearch well domne maestro :-) PS my Captcha words for this comment are: ireasho great !! I am sure one of your respondents uttered something like that during your talks!!

D Mick Weir

18/01/2011... and in other blog news from [i]'those bleedin economic types':[/i] Peter Martin informs us that Wayne Swan has two vacancies to fill on the Reserve Bank Board and puts his (boostering?) case for Professor Warwick McKibbin to get a third five year term. http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/01/memo-to-swan-mckibbins-bird-in-hand.html John Quiggin pontificates on Zombie Economics - The Movie: http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2011/01/18/zombie-economics-2/ entertaining!!! Also JQ has some thoughts on Water Policy after the flood that are interesting: http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2011/01/15/water-policy-after-the-flood/ Former economist (is that possible?) turned politician Andrew Leigh has a quick excerpt from Tyler Cowen’s [i]The Age of the Infovore[/i]: http://www.andrewleigh.com/blog/?p=421 ... and George Megalogenis @ Meganomics must still be writing his book and hasn't posted since I can't remember when. [b]Come back George [i]we need your wise words to help us understand the insane world we are in![/i][/b]

Ad astra reply

18/01/2011NormanK Great satire, delightful humour, startling inside information, stylish writing! I’ve said it before, and I repeat, you should be writing for [i]TPS[/i] – instead of [i]The Oz[/i], which doesn’t deserve such talent.

Hillbilly Skeleton

18/01/2011NormanK, You wag! :) Honestly, and I have suggested this to AA as he goes about the Blog revamp, that he should try and include the Social Networking 'Share this article' buttons. Then we can widely disseminate the brilliant political satire that seems to be becoming a hallmark of TPS. Which means, of course, that, as AA has reiterated, you would have to include your work as an original post. :) No one in particular has to comment on it, or critique it, it can just be the blessed light relief between the heavier duty stuff that AA & I wade into the political mire with. Anyway, whatever the outcome, your contributions are always admired from this end. :)

NormanK

18/01/2011WTF? Serious question - not rhetorical. What does Annabelle Crabbe mean by this : [quote]plus an almost unwatchable moment where the Foreign Minister archly taps his own forehead to illustrate the phrase "Touch wood"[/quote] http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/14/3113118.htm?site=thedrum This gesture, to accompany the expression, is one that I have used all of my life. My friends use it. My 84-year-old mother uses it. So what's the story? If an expression or gesture doesn't have its roots in the Southern capitals is it somehow less legitimate and worthy of a trendy cringe? If an expression or gesture is over twenty years old has it become worthy of derision? Annabelle, if you happen to wander past TPS on occasion, I hope you live in dread of moving home to some other part of Australia which may not recognise some of your favourite expressions and gestures. And whatever you do, don't grow old. If you were a male I'd call you a wanker.

NormanK

18/01/2011Ad astra Sorry about the coarse language. I broke my own rule of drafting a post and then letting it sit for 10-15 minutes to ensure that it was actually what I meant to say. Unfortunately, once its up, its up. I'm still fuming. Patronising little princess. Crabbe is one of the Canberra journalists who would benefit greatly from being dragged to the back of Bourke and forced to work with her hands for a year, accompanied only by people with far less education than she has but none-the-less in possession of infinitely more wisdom. Janice, perhaps we could second her to help clean up your garden. You'd knock a bit of sense into her.

Ad astra reply

18/01/2011NormanK Annabelle Crabb suffers from the expectation that she will at all times be funny, witty, intellectually sharp and verbally incisive. Sometimes it’s beyond her talent to meet these expectations. Moreover, she is too young to know that tapping one’s head means ‘touch wood’. We who were brought up in Queensland seem to understand such cryptic gestures. Her statement: [i]”Just why it is that Ms Gillard - who is one of the parliament's most genuinely at-ease MPs around ordinary people - looks quite so contrived on television these days is anyone's guess.”[/i] is based on the belief that this is so. Personally, I find nothing contrived at all about her TV appearances. But as it is now conventional wisdom around the Canberra Press Gallery that she is ‘wooden’, Annabelle must conform to that image by calling her ‘contrived’. Groupthink is alive and well.

Graeme

18/01/2011Norman K. As a Murray myself, could you please enlighten me as to the meaning or origin of your 'murrays'. It's not an expression I'm familiar with; and please don't tar all us southerners with the same brush you have applied to Annabelle Crabb. Many, no doubt most, of us have lived a life outside the bubble in which she exists.

BSA Bob

18/01/2011Hillbilly Skeleton I liked your piece a post or so back about the coming contrived storm of criticism Gillard, Bligh et al will be facing. I couldn't add to this, except to say that what really gets my goat is that, like seeing the faint glow of a locomotive headlight over a Nullarbor horizon, you KNOW that it's coming. Just a whinge inspired by hearing today's 3pm ABC radio news beginning with the hallowed "The Federal Opposition says..."

Hillbilly Skeleton

18/01/2011NormanK, You might be interested to know that the ubiquitous Ms Crabbe was on the ABC Sydney afternoon show with Richard Glover giving her daily synopsis of political events, wherein she attempted to glibly put across her chosen political yuks at the expense of the government. However, as I have often noted with Richard Glover, when he is just back from holidays he is always more combative with his 'regulars'. And so it was today. With a few pointed ripostes to her smarm, she was cut down to size and made to seem the lightweight commentator she can be on occasion, such as today. He questioned the assumptions that were at the base of her critique, and showed her to be the possessor of some very shallow thoughts, which seemed to begin and end with an Opposition Press Release. I happened across her again on 'The Drum' at 6pm. Now, one other thing I have also noticed about Ms Crabbe is that she is a fast learner from her mistakes, or, to put it another way, she is able to sniff the wind pretty well and go with the flow. As, by the time that The Drum was on, and in the company of David Marr and Steve Cannane, no automatic supporters of the Opposition(plus an economic Regressive from the IPA who was still trying to push the line that the government should not have spent a cent on the GFC and instead hoarded their Surpluses for a rainy Queensland day), Ms Crabbe had dropped the head-tapping line completely. Frankly, we'll just have to resign ourselves to the pulchritudinous Ms Crabbe being all over the ABC like a measles rash again this year. She is 'good talent' as they say in the business. Despite not being Australian enough to know what the colloquial expression, 'Touch Wood', and its associated self-deprecating tap of the head, means. She is a POM you know. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

18/01/2011BSA Bob, As if the federal Opposition knows what they are talking about. You'd think the ABC would have realised that by now. :)

NormanK

18/01/2011DMW, AA & FS Now that I've calmed down a bit, thanks for the feedback - it's always welcome. A funny thing happened on the way to the theatre. As I went back to re-read Savva's article in order to copy her style or even perhaps pinch a few sentences, I got about halfway through when I realised that what she had written was in fact already satire. Loosely speaking, a satirical newspaper article should have : a) a catchy title to attract the reader b) a brief synopsis promising weighty disclosures based on reliable sources c) a couple of carefully constructed paragraphs fulfilling the promise of b) d) a subtle slip which causes the reader to wonder if they have misconstrued the content e) a blatant declaration//revelation that the piece is not to be taken at face-value f) every wild and wonderful bit of nonsense you can conjure g) a silly wrap up which pays lip service to the headline and opening synopsis So check this out. a) [quote]PM could make up for her passionless performance[/quote] Does it for me even if it is a little pointed. b) [quote]And it came at a time when extensive private research shows that she already faces a monumental challenge in convincing people that she is up to the job of prime minister.[/quote] Sure, tell me about the research. c) [quote]The research, which covered a wide cross section of ethnic, social and financial backgrounds, shows Gillard has failed to energise either her own base, or convince sceptics that she knows what to do and how to go about it.[/quote] Sounds good, looks like Gillard may be in a spot of bother. d) [quote]The research was conducted mainly in Melbourne and Canberra over the Christmas and new year period.[/quote] Hmmm. Is that fish I smell? e) [quote].... the research was conducted by me, in discussions with friends, family and acquaintances to suss out their views of the government, and Gillard in particular.[/quote] Ah, I see. f) [quote]Even in Canberra, the most Labor of Labor towns, people refused to sing her praises. True, some of my friends and acquaintances were well lubricated, but in vino veritas, as they say.[/quote] Yep, I get it. You were on the turps and talking cr*p. g) [quote]Where he (Abbott) will be rigorous, and where she needs to be extremely vigilant, is in ensuring the money is well spent. If she mucks that up, even eloquence more moving than Barack Obama's will not save her.[/quote] Ah, room enough for redemption as intimated in the headline. I have tried to leave a comment on the article congratulating Niki for her latest bit of satire but so far no joy. I have a few reservations about offering bits and pieces as headline offerings. The comic stuff is unlikely to be sufficient to sustain an entire thread and my stumbling attempts at serious analysis are purely observational or research based and I don't have the background knowledge to maintain a lengthy debate. A mile wide and an inch think, as Skeletos might say. Having said that, some other solution which broadcasts the "good bits" a little more widely can only be a worthwhile endeavour, especially for TPS as a whole. Once again, I apologise for my earlier outburst. Graeme The "murray" I referred to was an appellation first introduced to me by aboriginal friends who had adopted the title even though the original race which might have rightfully claimed the name had died out. As I first heard the stories, they (the Murray Tribe) were supposed to have come from northern NSW but I suspect this is more folk-lore than fact. Bear in mind that the piece was satirical and no offence was intended other than to Niki Savvas and her shallow writing. As for tarring with a broad brush, I do try very hard to avoid doing that since it is never justified. I thought I had succeeded but if not, then I apologise. The patronising princess was the sole intended target for my wrath. I actually enjoy quite a bit of her stuff but when this new "in" set decide to pour scorn on anything and anyone which does not belong in their tiny circle, it gets my back up. So too the propensity some young people have for pouring scorn on the old just for being old - by which I mean books, words, music, ideas as well as people. Either way Crabb got up my nose. If there is a third explanation as to why the "touch wood" gesture is "almost unwatchable" then I'm more than willing to hear it. I guess I should say sorry to her as well - I've been giving her an "e" that she doesn't require.

Hillbilly Skeleton

18/01/2011Grog's latest blog: http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2011/01/apolitical-flood-yeah-that-lasted.html

Hillbilly Skeleton

18/01/2011Graeme, I must admit I was unaware of what a 'Murray' was too, except I didn't want to show my ignorance to NormanK. Well, more exactly I know who one group of Murrays are, they are an Indigenous Australian subgroup. However, I don't think NK was referring to them.

Hillbilly Skeleton

18/01/2011Here's a very worthwhile cause in aid of the Queensland Flood Relief effort: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/245137,flood-relief-hunt-on-for-hand-me-down-computer-gear.aspx I think I'll ring up and donate an old Laser Printer I've got. :)

janice

19/01/2011[quote]Janice, perhaps we could second her to help clean up your garden. You'd knock a bit of sense into her.NormanK [/quote] She wouldn't last 5 minutes, NormanK. In fact, I doubt even a hammer and chisel would fail at knocking sense into that lady. Needless to say, she is not a fan of mine.

Rx

19/01/2011With regards Their ABC's maddening repetition of the phrase, [i][b]"The Federal Opposition says..."[/b][/i], I suspect the right-wing activists on Board the national broadcaster are working to a cunning, yet simple, plan. Whilesoever Labor is in office the ABC will continue as it is now: to typically precede political 'stories' with the phrase, such that, over time (and it's already begun!), the audience will start tearing its own hair out in rage and frustration. The ABC will studiously continue to fob off complaints and demands it cease and desist the blatant politicisation ... until such time as, thanks in part to its unmatched influence on the Australian population, the ABC can help bring about its desired change of government. Only then will we see a sudden and belated change of heart. Conspicuously it will announce: [i]"To our Valued and Respected Audience, The ABC has heard your complaints about the use of the phrase [b]"The Federal Opposition says..."[/b] as the lead-in to political coverage on the ABC. The ABC is duty-bound to cover political affairs with balance and impartiality. We will not allow the ABC's integrity to call into question with perceptions of bias. Accordingly, and in acting upon your complaints, the ABC will henceforth monitor and keep in proper proportion the use of this unpopular phrase in our news coverage. "If you see, hear or read the phrase, [b]"The Federal Opposition says..."[/b] on ABC Radio, TV or Online, please make a complaint to our Audience & Consumer Affairs department, and we undertake to investigate the matter with all due diligence, and make amends where necessary. "Thank you for your continued confidence in and support of the most Fair and Balanced news service in Australia - Your ABC."[/i] From that point we will hardly hear boo from 'The Federal Opposition' on the ABC, and all will be well in the plush, taxpayer-funded management offices of the right wing-controlled, but oh-so-balanced! - "national" broadcaster.

janice

19/01/2011Just a thought I had as I was reading through the posts this morning. The poems posted by Patricia, Talk Turkey and Ascerbic deserve to be put into book form entitled (perhaps)"The Political Sword Poets". I read them, enjoy them and wish I could remember them and/or wish I could pass them on to others I know who would also enjoy them.

Hillbilly Skeleton

19/01/2011To all the Victorians out there, you can say 'Goodbye' to whatever free-flowing 'Wild' Rivers you have left out there, Ted 'Build More Dams' Baillieu has just confirmed on ABC Breakfast this morning that he is absolutely in favour of building more dams in the mountainous regions of Victoria. He stopped at agreeing to dig big holes in the flood plains, but if there is a valley and a river runs through it, watch out!

Hillbilly Skeleton

19/01/2011janice, Maybe Ad Astra knows Louise Adler from Melbourne University Press. :) Actually, I have had the thought many times that AcerbicC.'s 'playlets' could be knocked into shape and a ridgy didge political satire could be made out of them. With the enormous popularity of the 'Don's Party' sequel at the theatre in Melbourne atm I would put money on it being a raging success. Hmm, maybe one of our 'Swordsmiths' would not mind crafting it for us? I also imagine that PatriciaWA's poems could be read between Acts, or be interspersed between the dialogue. Shakespeare used to do it, and our creative contributors are just as good as him, I reckon! What about it, Talk Turkey? Your tesselations suggest a mind that is very good at putting things together. NormanK could edit it. Then, before you know it we can ask Eddie Perfect to put some songs in it and Voila! :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

19/01/2011It just gets more shocking by the minute. Now, Ted Baillieu is revealing himself as a Climate Change Sceptic, or, at the very least a Denialist: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/baillieu-rejects-governors-view-on-floods-20110118-19v9j.html Who have Victorians elected? Oh, and he's backtracking on election promises at the rate of knots. But he sure is a handsome Premier. ;)

NormanK

19/01/2011TPS Readers Bearing in mind that there are a good many more readers here than commenters, Graeme's question last night about "murrays" has set off a train of thought with regard to my latest satirical piece. I fear I may have made a fundamental error which could lead to misinterpretation. I chose to follow Ad astra's tongue-in-cheek threat to draft an opinion piece based on his holiday conversations with family and friends and in effect "one-upped" him by pretending to have been successful in getting it published. As a result my satirical piece ended up with my name on the by-line. In the past a fictional author has been credited with the content of the article thereby distancing me from it. In this case if Angry Blott had been attributed as the author, the use of racist epithets would have been placed at his door and not mine. As it stands, there is a very real possibility of confusion between NormanK the fake journalist and NormanK the blogger. Let me state quite clearly. There was no article. There was no e-mail. There was no survey. Keith, Bruce, Johnno et al do not exist. There is no Crown Hotel. I do not refer to my drinking buddies using racist epithets. Tony Abbott does not have five balls. This whole blogging thing is littered with pitfalls and I can only hope that I have side-stepped one rather than falling in face first. In future I will make a clearer distinction between what is my own genuine opinion and the fictional opinion of characters and situations that I create.

Hillbilly Skeleton

19/01/2011NormanK, Um, do you mean you 'misspoke'? Oh noes! You are becoming a member of the Right before our eyes! :)

Ad astra reply

19/01/2011NormanK What a brilliant analysis of Niki Savva’s unintended attempt at satire. If she could read it, she would have to feel embarrassed, as she does fancy herself as a serious columnist. You provide us with more and more reasons for you to become an author on [i]TPS[/i]. HS Thank you for the link to the article in the Melbourne [i]Age[/i] where Ted Baillieu rejects the State Governor’s view that the floods might be attributable to climate change. The possibility that climate change might be linked to the recent flood events is a sensitive subject among sceptics. Barnaby Joyce said: [i]If you want to piss people off at the moment, start talking about climate change.”[/i] For him that is true, as it seems likely to be for Ted Baillieu. It must be hard for those in the conservative camp to face up to this possibility after Tony Abbott’s statements and actions over the last year. While weather scientists agree that the well-known La Niña phenomenon is responsible for the current floods, as El Niño was for the drought, and climate scientists seem to agree, the latter warn that such events may occur more frequently in the presence of global warming. Some feel quite certain about this. So while it is not possible to adamant about the influence of global warming on these naturally occurring cycles, and specifically the current floods, to suspect that they might have an influence is prudent. To be somewhat dismissive, as are Joyce and Baillieu, may be more a political response rather than a scientific one. HS, janice AC has already published a collection of his writings; maybe he might do the same with his contributions to [i]TPS[/i].

Ad astra reply

19/01/2011Folks Greg's piece on [i]Grog's Gamut[/i] is spot on, as usual. Do read it: http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2011/01/apolitical-flood-yeah-that-lasted.html

TalkTurkey

19/01/2011Janice, I have been meaning to say hello to you, having noted that you were amongst the very first to post on TPS, and that you have contributed at intervals ever since. Is your Dog well? Not a Golden Retriever by any chance? Well, Golden now. "New friends are silver, the old are gold." At best I'm only pewter atm. Thank you for the thought that the rhyming verse in TPS might be worthy of collection, and I love it that it gives you pleasure. It does of course take a lot more wrinkling of the brow to write than prose, and the best of it cries out plaintively for immortality. A case in point is My Paul the Psychic Octopus, 'way off politics, but I see they're immortalising him in sculpture and legend, so I reckon I'll send them a copy, it has to be in English of course (where was he, in Germany?) but then English demands to be the universal language anyway, so Paul can help that happen. Spreading his eightacles to all points of the compass. Were it not in verse of course there would be nothing worth immortalising. In verse, it has an eternal life of its own. BTW where I go month-by-month to Adelaide's "Friendly Street Poets", where some 80 or so poets go each month to hear our own voices for no more than 3 minutes (literally!), I am about the ONLY one who writes in rhyme except for the odd deviant occasionally. Rhyme is held by most there to be infra dig! But they like my stuff despite themselves, and I give 'em curry about what seems to me to be really prose arranged in very short lines, with lots of waste blank spaces of paper in any collection . . . and tongue in cheek, I tell 'em, "I don't write poetry, I only write rhyme", which sort of confuses them, as they have first confused me. Time was, poetry was always rhymed and metered, then came Dylan Thomas (at least he was original in his work) and everybody cooks up chopped gobbledegook ever since. But without rhyme and meter, even John Lennon could not have created his wonderful lyrics, wild and strange though some of them be. All songs indeed need rhyme and meter, and when I hear (usually Yankee) lyrics with lousy half-rhymes or uncomfortable stresses and calligulated constructions it sort of makes my flesh crawl. No way one could hope to write rhyming verse with such facility in any other language, they just don't have the words - you need many word-choices, synonyms and nuanced meanings to write rhyme. I love English with a passion. PatriciaWA, our thoughts are with you, hope all is well in the Old Dart, I s'pose it's too far for emails to travel though? Anyway Janice appreciates you, get back safe and soon.

NormanK

19/01/2011AA & FS Whew! This blogging caper is fraught with danger, isn't it? Actually FS, it was your generous assumption that I wasn't pushing a "hot button" that alerted me to the possibility that misinterpretation was possible. I WAS pushing a hot button but as a fictional columnist rather than as an individual blogger. It is to TPS's credit that I was not immediately bombarded with knee-jerk reactions before I could sort out how the potential for misunderstanding had come about. Rx I sincerely hope that you are incorrect in your predictions but it doesn't look good, does it? ABC TV seems to have settled down a bit but not enough to have me dancing in the streets. I used to listen to an awful lot of ABC Radio but this is no longer the case (due to circumstances rather than any particular decision on my part) and reports from yourself and others on the current state-of-play are always welcomed by me. There was a time not so long ago when ABC Radio was the definitive source for information on all sorts of things but it does seem that, in respect of political reporting, they have lost the plot. This is a loss to all of us.

Ad astra reply

19/01/2011Rx I fear we will hear more and more in 2011 of [i]‘The Federal Opposition says:’[/i] as the Coalition feeds such more and more of such phrases to the media. It will use every calamity to advance its political aims while insisting that the tragedy must not be politicized, as [i]Grog’s Gamut]/i] so clearly points out in the latest piece: http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2011/01/apolitical-flood-yeah-that-lasted.html Our only counter is to call out every instance of the ABC’s lack of balance, until it gets the message that it needs to do a better job in 2011.

Ad astra reply

19/01/2011AC, TT, Patricia WA, and other bards How can [i]TPS[/i] promulgate your poetry other than through the comments section? Would you like a ‘poetry’ section under site pages in the right panel? If so, how are we to select items for it? As most items are subject-specific, how would we ensure that the context is preserved?

Rx

19/01/2011Norman K / Ad Astra, I too was an ardent listener of ABC Radio up until about two years ago. It increasingly dawned on me that they'd "lost the plot", as Norman put it. I reluctantly ceased to be a regular listener and fierce supporter, and now only tune in randomly to appraise whether the plot is still lost. The past two months on ABC have been atypical: 1) The floods have dominated coverage; and 2) Abbott and co apparently were taking a break fro bombarding the broadcaster with the daily stream of press releases. Hence the notorious phrase has been in refreshingly low-rotation lately. As the flood situation assumes declining news urgency, Parliament resumes, and the Abbott crew crank up the spin machine once again, I'm expecting Their ABC to resume 'business as usual' in coming weeks. I will continue to check in here and there to see how it's going on the political coverage front. Hoping, really hoping, but not holding my breath, that it might start behaving with a little more dignity and respect for its audience and demonstrate that, at long last, it's "found the plot" again. Fingers crossed!

Ad astra reply

19/01/2011Folks In the [i]Brisbane Times[/i] yesterday there was a piece [i]Gillard warns flood impact may hit surplus hopes[/i] by Jared Lynch and Eric Johnston, which I read with interest since she has consistently said the surplus would be delivered as promised. It began: “[i]PRIME Minister Julia Gillard's commitment to return the federal budget to surplus in 2012-13 is coming under more pressure as the likely damage bill from the most devastating series of floods in Australia's recorded history continues to mount.”[/i] So the surplus is coming under pressure is it? Well I suppose it is, especially if [i]The Brisbane Times[/i] says so. But there’s nothing from Julia about it. It continues: “[i]With the still unfolding crisis in Victoria adding to a colossal damage bill in Queensland, Ms Gillard and Treasurer Wayne Swan yesterday conceded that the budget would be stretched by flood recovery and rebuilding costs for years.[/i] Did they actually ‘concede’? What words did they use? Had they ‘conceded’ their words of ‘concession’ would have been highlighted. So far, there’s still no mention of the surplus being maintained. The next paragraph reads: “[i]Pointedly, when discussing the financial implications of the floods, Ms Gillard did not repeat assurances earlier this month that the promised schedule for a return to budget surplus would be unchanged.[/i]” So she did not repeat them – pointedly! How does it become ‘pointed’ when she simply made no mention of the surplus? ‘Pointedly’ is just the journalists’ take on her not mentioning the surplus. The article goes on: [i]''We will be managing the federal budget so that we can meet the needs of recovery and rebuilding,'' Ms Gillard said. ''I know that there is going to be a lot of effort, money and resources needed to rebuild, particularly rebuild Queensland.'' Mr Swan said the government would be up for a ''very substantial amount … It will involve billions of dollars of Commonwealth money and also state government money and there's going to be impacts on local governments as well.''[/i] All self-evident, and still no mention of the promised surplus. There are then some paragraphs about the floods and their effect until this sentence: “[i]As Ms Gillard and Mr Swan avoided direct speculation on the surplus timetable, a leading economist discounted their chances of meeting the 2012-13 target.”[/i] So they ‘avoided direct speculation’. So what? Is there something devious or sinister to be read into this ‘avoidance’? Did a journalist ask them about the surplus? It seems not or else the reply would have been published. So here we have an attempt to build a case to support the spurious headline: [i]Gillard warns flood impact may hit surplus hopes[/i] which happens to be untrue. She never said that. Read the article yourself and find any reference to ‘surplus’ by Gillard or Swan. You won’t find any. This is yet another example of incompetent and devious journalism. Journalists desperately want Julia to say ‘We won’t be able to bring in the promised surplus’, and when she continues to not oblige, they simply concoct a story that gives the impression that this is so, when clearly it isn’t. Now it may be so in the fullness of time when the total cost of restitution is known, but that is not soon enough for impatient journalists who want to get the scoop that leads to ‘Gillard reneges on surplus’ or ‘Gillard breaks ‘surplus’ promise’ or some such down-putting headline. This journalism is nauseating, enough to make fair-minded people sick. Let’s call every instance of it whenever we see it. The article is at http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/gillard-warns-flood-impact-may-hit-surplus-hopes-20110118-19ueg.html

D Mick Weir

19/01/2011Hi Swordsfolk, FYI: Parliament resumes Tuesday 8th Feb for 3 days only. One week break and bak for 2 weeks Monday 21st Feb. This years sitting calendar is here: http://www.aph.gov.au/house/info/sittings/index.htm Hang in there, only 20 sleeps to go.

D Mick Weir

19/01/2011A few links from 'around the traps: Peter Martin tells us [i]"Once a nation of beer drinkers, we are guzzling less of the stuff than at any time in the past 61 years."[/i] in his post: [b]Little old wine drinkers us: 29 litres per person per year[/b] http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/01/little-old-wine-drinkers-us-29-litres.html I call on all lovers of beer to do their bit and turn this around!!!! Over at The Conscience Vote there is a follow to Mondays post [b]Open mouth, insert foot Bob Brown on the floods'[/b] http://consciencevote.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/open-mouth-insert-foot-bob-brown-on-the-floods/ [b] The difference between foot-in-mouth and exploitation[/b] [i]"In The Punch today, Shadow Minister for Innovation Sophie Mirabella decided to give us her considered opinion – complete with a characteristically crass swipe at Brown’s comments. .... Floods are ‘natural’, she wrote. What short memories we silly humans have. Why, every week it seems we have a ‘one in 200 year’ flood, ..."[/i] http://consciencevote.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/the-difference-between-foot-in-mouth-and-exploitation/ Over at The Left Flank, Dr Tad gets all deep-and-meaningless* in his post [b]The curious marriage of neoliberalism and nationalism[/b]. [i]"One of the main arguments of the neoliberal era has been centred on the decline of nation states and governments as actors in the economic sphere, replaced by decentralised market networks, ..."[/i] http://left-flank.blogspot.com/2011/01/curious-marriage-of-neoliberalism-and.html *Apologies to Dr Tad, Deep and Meaningless is the title of on my favourite (lost) vinyl albums from the past and, well, I can't help myself and the statement sort of pops out sometimes. At Club Troppo, Don Arthur asks [b]Do poor people cause poverty?[/b]. http://clubtroppo.com.au/2011/01/17/do-poor-people-cause-poverty/ If you do visit the club click on the links to see some other interesting stuff about guitars also playing a mugs game and other fine writings.

D Mick Weir

19/01/2011And now for something completely different Those whose are all gung-ho for a high speed rail network in Aus may find some sobering (and interesting) info at [b]How We Drive, the blog of Tom Vanderbilt’s Traffic:[/b] [i]Why We Drive the Way We Do (and What It Says About Us)[/i] Check out [b]Desire Named Streetcar[/b] and the link to his recent Slate column. http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/12/desire-named-streetcar/ His book is also a really good read.

Hillbilly Skeleton

19/01/2011D Mick Weir, You are a gem for providing those links. :) However, I am trembling in my boots(well, thongs actually because it's summer), as my next blog is an attempt at a philosophical topic! However, if it comes across as 'Deep & Meaningless' I expect you to say so. I expect nothing less than honesty from our commenters. Well, except for the sort of 'brutal honesty' that comes from our Trolls. They're only just saying it in order to try and infllict a psychological flesh wound. :)

NormanK

19/01/2011Hah! I got the 500th post by sneaking under the radar! And no-one cares. Partying by myself again I guess. Go Balloons!! Go Balloons!! http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bldumbcampaignquotes.htm Ad astra Just to reinforce your indignation : Oxford English Dictionary - [b]concede[/b] "finally admit that something is true". Wow, "finally" Gillard and Swann admit that the floods will impact the budget. Thank goodness for that. AA, your call to arms regarding media misrepresentation may fill several volumes. How about Channel 10 TV News leading with "The blame game begins" on the day Bligh announced the commission into the Queensland floods. No chance at all that everything which could be done was done and that this was an accident of nature? Where's the anger in that?

D Mick Weir

19/01/2011Hi HS, [b]Fear Ye Not.[/b] :-) Due to my deep affection to aformentioned piece of vinyl I actually use deep-and-meaningless as a compliment (even if it is a slightly back handed one!!). I wait with bated breath for your forthcoming post and, if the past is any guide, it should be [i]'a doozie'[/i]. Any clues on the topic? Rest assured you will get fair comment from this end!

kerry

19/01/2011To be fair, it's the subbies who make up the headline. But I wouldn't put it past a journo to suggest it.

Ad astra reply

19/01/2011D Mick Weir Thank you for your links. They remind us of how much we miss Lyn and Lyn's Daily Links. Within a fortnight she will be back - on February 1.

kerry

19/01/2011Sorry about all the repeats but my comment kept returning. Thought I was getting the two words wrong. Cheers

Hillbilly Skeleton

19/01/2011Hello kerry! Nice to make your aquaintance. :) We here at The Political Sword appreciate your contribution. We always try to hit above the belt. So I hope that you stay around to enjoy our attempts at deconstructing the Australian media and politics. :)

Hillbilly Skeleton

19/01/2011D Mick Weir, No way, Jose! I would be guilty of contributing to my own anti-climax. :)

Ad astra reply

19/01/2011kerry Welcome to [i]TPS[/i]. The reCaptcha words are sometimes very hard to discern. If you can't make them out, click the refresh symbol to the left of 'reCaptcha' and another pair that might be more readable, will appear.

2353

19/01/2011Sorry to come in late but in recent experience ABC Local Radio has been an efficient and credible source of information relevant to the local area. However they went back to regular programming a few days ago which introduced me to their 9 to 12 announcer. She is bombastic, rude and arrogant. At various times I heard her close to abusing an Energex (power poles and wires provider) person about not getting power back to certain areas soon enough after the flooding; someone from Translink (public transport organiser) who wouldn't give a restoration date for services determined by one of their providers to be unsafe to operate; telling another service provider that if he didn't ensure a service was performed she would get him back on the radio to have a go at him. On these three occasions I felt sorry for the people the ABC rang for information She is also (apparently) the partner of the Courier Mail's editor. What gives her the right to abuse people who are attempting to provide a public service at a time when resources are stretched? You would have to wonder if ABC Management listen to her.

D Mick Weir

19/01/2011Congratulations NormanK, I shall have 'a quiet one' for you later! And I accept your thanks for my multiple posts helping you over the line :-)

Hillbilly Skeleton

19/01/20112353, That would be Madonna King, or, should that be Primadonna King? :)

Graeme

19/01/2011Norman K, No offence taken.I read the post in the spirit I believe you intended ie as a satirical riposte to Niki Savva's smear, and a fine fist you made of it too. I wasn't aware of the 'murray' connection to an indigineous tribe. My own tribe came from considerably further north; County Clare in fact. HS Ted Baillieu is rapidly finding out how easy it is to promise one thing whilst you are in opposition, but how difficult it is to fulfil those promises when you are in government. Just a couple of examples: Before the election - We'll ease cost of living pressures; after the election - power companies announce increase in electricity and gas prices. Before the election - no more speed cameras; after the election - 32 new speed cameras commissioned. No doubt there are many more, yet the state conservative government is not subjected to anywhere near the level of scrutiny as the Federal Labor government.

Hillbilly Skeleton

19/01/2011You know what I reckon? As taxpayers we should be able to initiate an ABC journalist Recall Referendum such that if one of them pees off enough of their listeners, say, 100,000, then they can be shown the door. :)

jj

19/01/2011Hello all! yes i am back, back from a trip to the NT and WA. I read Savva' article whilst i was away and i thought it was pretty mild. Sure she handed out some criticism to Gillard, but she also made the point that those commentators thrashing her over looking wooden during the flood crisis were over-egging it a bit (although i must say, her head bobbing all the way through Bligh's updates looked absolutely ridiculous). Savva also made the point that if Gillard learns to implement policy promises and improve her speaking style, that she will do well. I know you all hate criticism of your beloved Julia, but i thought what Savva said was pretty justified. I say Gillard could probably do with a bit of a dress makeover, with that black and white striped t-shirt, and that horrible suit with the purple lined collar, not doing anything to complement her body shape (maybe she should talk to KK in NSW before she is gone!). Anyway, happy new year to all!

NormanK

19/01/2011D Mick Weir There's always someone looking to ride on one's coat-tails, isn't there? Okay, okay, I'll name a couple of balloons in your honour. Go balloons! Graeme Relieved I am to read your post. I have probably spelled it out sufficiently above but after one bad experience I'm now paranoid about being misinterpreted in this two dimensional medium. kerry Welcome to TPS. We are a gentle humble folk who thrive on milk and honey. Pull up a stump. Madonna King - the Wicked Witch of the East - also writes for the Courier Mail with her poison pen.

Jason

19/01/2011jj, "I say Gillard could probably do with a bit of a dress makeover, with that black and white striped t-shirt, and that horrible suit with the purple lined collar, not doing anything to complement her body shape (maybe she should talk to KK in NSW before she is gone!)" Well we wait to see how you scrub up! jj if you want to hide behind that gravitar don't tell others how to dress, put up or shut up!

TalkTurkey

20/01/2011JASON! jj will love you now! You talked to her! Say three Our Mongrels and three Hail Jessies! Please, DO NOT ADDRESS THE TROLLS!!! Forgive me, Jase, but I think third-personality is the way to give such strange beings as these sniping sneerers cause to consider their attitudes. I really do, and believe me Swordsfolks, I really don't want to have them as enemies, I think they need our warmth and understanding. Dog us true believers are unbelievable eh, because I really mean that. Except for Limpy, the creep, whom I denounce with disgust, and shall until he writes Prof. Skeleton a sincere apology. As if. Sir? Cur! Jason I shall now take it upon myself to rewrite your message putting sad little jj in the 3rd person, as if you had written it that-a-way. 'jj said:, "I say Gillard could probably do with a bit of a dress makeover, with that black and white striped t-shirt, and that horrible suit with the purple lined collar, not doing anything to complement her body shape (maybe she should talk to KK in NSW before she is gone!)" Well let's wait to see how SHE scrubs up! If jj wants to hide behind that gravitar let her not tell others how to dress, let her put up or shut up!' This is, yes, presumptuous of me Cobber, but let's stick to third-personality as a strategy, it'll only work if we hold the line. United We Stand! No Pasaran! Venceremos!

TalkTurkey

20/01/2011The more I read this blog the more people I want to reply to, because you all have worthwhile points to be commented upon by the rest of us, but the mind gets a bit O/D'd with povs and persons . . . tredlgt Good to hear from you, you sound staunch, speak up more Bro, no good just lurking! Graeme, great Gravatar, Swordspeople are great believers in Dog. Pat him/her for Us. Good spotting of inconsistencies in Baillieu's new govt. Keep a record eh. As for Murrays, I've got lost in the posts about murrays and Murrays, but I do know that as Kooris are North-Eastern Aborigines (I think?) so Murrays is a generic term for some Southerners - I think. Some call each other by that term. It's disgraceful eh, most Australians know far more American Indian tribal names than those of Australian indigenes. (et mea culpa included). Kerry, Pleased to meet you, a very succinct point you make, more please, you sound very sensible, QED. The Sword and its ilk need strong voices the more the better by the time Parliament sits again. As for the two reCaptcha words, they're weird but they're fun, just do your best to identify them and if you're wrong they give you a message and a new pair of words. You quickly get used to it. It really has killed the dreaded Spam Monster. NormanK Go Balloons! More Balloons! Where the #@*%! are all the Balloons!? Yeah I saw you were 500, 'on ya. Ad infinitum! Rx I'm sad to have to concur with you about the ABC, Radio and TV both. I never thought to see the day that my beloved Auntie would turn out to be the Wicked Witch. ABC morning radio is a gobble gobble and that's all. Not all the current affairs programmes are poor, but Catalyst is mostly disgraceful. 2353, D Mick Weir, BSA Bob, All Yous Others, I do believe the Fifth Estate is ever more important and it's good to know that people of your perspicacity and attitudes and articulation are part of Us. And then there's Ad astra: "AC, TT, Patricia WA, and other bards How can TPS promulgate your poetry other than through the comments section? Would you like a ‘poetry’ section under site pages in the right panel? If so, how are we to select items for it? As most items are subject-specific, how would we ensure that the context is preserved?" I will give it some thought AA and write about it soon. And then there's some considerations re Julian Assange that I want to write about too . . . Dear me . . . It's 3.43 AM . . . another time maybe. Anyway we'll make it OK to the next sitting of Parliament . . . Eh, Swordsfolk!

janice

20/01/2011Talk Turkey, Hello to you too. I enjoy reading your posts, especially as your thinking is generally on a par with my own. As for the dog, he is a 2.9 year old Maremma Sheep Dog whose handle is "Paddington" but answers to the more ordinary name of Paddy. It became obvious early in the piece that Paddy sees himself as a show dog and had no intention of becoming a working dog. He stresses out in the heat of summer and knows exactly how to get himself into airconditioned comfort despite the fact that he takes up all the spare space in my bedsitter. He also 'owns' my small car and takes up the whole of the space behind the front seats. He weighs in at 50 kilos. Maremmas are like no other dog and require a completely different approach - They are intelligent but are difficult to train because (a) they refuse to take bribes, (b)they hate restraint and (c) they're sooks and will blame any pain they suffer on the closest human or animal and are incredibly slow to forgive. Maremmas are not attack dogs but will defend their people and animals. They form strong bonds. They will not breed with other dog species so they don't go looking for talent beyond their home boundaries. Paddy bonded with one of my cats when he was a puppy and I find it quite amusing to see him down the paddock with his ginger mate in tow as they chase quail and bunnies.

Ad astra reply

20/01/2011TT If you want to stick to the third person in responding to bloggers such as jj, I would ask why he/she focused on Niki Savva’s comments about Julia Gillard’s mannerisms and dress rather that commenting on the quality of Savva’s ‘research’ upon which she based much of her assessment of Gillard. That was our main criticism of Savva, that she presented to her readers conclusions that arose from the worst type of social research – where the representativeness of her sample was deeply suspect, and almost certainly illegitimate, particularly with her own admission that many were in high spirits from consumption of alcohol. That any serious journalist would present an assessment of our PM based on informal chats with an unstated number of her friends and acquaintances primed with end-of-year cheer and call it research, is beyond the comprehension of those of us who take political discourse seriously. NormanK suggested that her piece fitted almost perfectly the definition of satire. Sadly, she was trying to be serious.

TalkTurkey

20/01/2011Janice, Thanks for your pronto reply. Erm, are Maremmas those gentle giant Dogs who like to live out among Sheep when off duty from monitoring air conditioners and quality-assessing sofas? And chase off Bad Dogs? Your description of Paddy reminds me of 'Tom Collins''s Kangaroo-Dog 'Pup' in Joseph Furphy's astonishing tome Such Is Life. If you can, check it out, it's a hoot. One place your thinking and mine are at variance, I'm sad to say, is about those Scats of yours. I hate those Scats! I would be less than honest if I didn't say so. My feeling about them is a corollary of the way I feel about native wildlife, if there's any left. Don't take that personal though, as they say, Janice. But I do wish there weren't so many of those Scats! Ad astra, that third person you mentioned . . . Where you "would ask why he/she focused on Niki Savva’s comments about Julia Gillard’s mannerisms and dress rather than commenting on the quality of Savva’s ‘research’ upon which she based much of her assessment of Gillard" . . . It's all to do with his/her education. Under-education, mis-education, and un-education. It's a damn shame. Doesn't it show though! No ability to discern fact from allegation, evidence from scuttlebutt, valid from spurious, germane from irrelevant . . . Anal Jones' and Bum-Bolt's and Cloaca-Man's natural audience. Simplistic, hateful, rancid, sad and irrational. That's why. Bugga! Fortunately, all trolls and persons such as those three stoolmates I just mentioned are only third persons, and of no real concern to Us, except as playthings.

NormanK

20/01/2011So it's already begun in Queensland. Excited spectators will be able to pop down to the village square and throw rotten fruit at whoever is in the stocks that day. First to have their necks locked in the wooden blocks of the MSM is the management team in charge of Wivenhoe Dam. [b]Engineer warned on dam 10 years ago: report[/b] [quote]Wivenhoe Dam, the dam that has been at the centre of debates over Queensland's handling of the severe flooding, was reportedly the subject of a recommendation a decade ago by Brisbane City Council's top flood engineer to ensure a much larger buffer against flooding, according to The Australian. The city's top flood engineer at the time, Ken Morris, reportedly warned that the existing policy for the dam compromised its capacity to protect against flooding, and that area residents were not properly informed on the flood risks. Engineers and hydrology experts examining river height, dam flow rates and weather systems have suggested the dam was storing too much water in the days leading up to flooding of Brisbane earlier this month, according to The Australian.[/quote] http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Engineer-warned-on-Wivenhoe-10-years-ago-report-pd20110119-D9NYQ?OpenDocument&src=hp12&WELCOME=AUTHENTICATED%20REMEMBER Waiting nervously in front of the local grocers are the heads of insurance bodies who may or may not be given an opportunity to defend themselves against charges of heartlessness and opportunism. Likely high profile candidates for the stocks are Premier Anna Bligh, Mayor Campbell Newman and state ministers deemed possibly responsible for errors in the past regarding long-term planning of infrastructure, flood mitigation and urban planning. Local mayors and their respective councils will not be sleeping easy in their beds over the coming weeks as they wait for the creaking wheels of the Blame Cart to pull up outside their doors. The Federal Government may have the luxury of a couple of months of wriggle room before they too are dragged to the centre of the square. In the meantime, the Blame Police will be pointing to the muck-ridden stocks and declaring "there but for the grace of giving us what we want, go you". And what is it that "we" want? Someone to blame. Lots of free dollars. Someone to vilify as the baddies in this melodrama. Thank Dog television doesn't come in Smell-O-Rama because over coming weeks the evening news is going to by dominated by footage of rotten fruit and vegetables hurled at those too slow or too high profile to be able to avoid it.

BSA Bob

20/01/2011Norman K Well said, but I think the Blame Cart & its attedants will pass by the Liberal's houses.

TalkTurkey

20/01/2011 I see Annabel Crabb has been drawing a good bit of bagging recently, and bloody right whack too. I think she's toxic. In fact I think all the leading journalistic commentators, with the sole exception of Laura Tingle, have been snide sniping spittlelickers ever since Rudd was elected. With Janice's approval of TPS versifiers to embolden me, I dare again quote myself from my big pome The Maid Of Yarralumla back on October 12: . . . Then from the Murdoch stables all the hustlers made their run: They were breathing fire and brimstone every breath: That Labor’s illegitimate, that Abbott’s mob had won, And that any tryst with Brown and Greens was Death. Bloated with his self-importance was conniving Laurie Oakes, And Piers Ackermann, most bigoted of all, And the first one to throw stones, that loathsome, hateful Alan Jones: They’re three key bricks in the Murdochratic Wall. There was Andrew “Anal” Bolt , and that Glenn Milne, the drunken thug, Grabbing sleazily at any sleazy grab, And that ABC lickspittle, Chris Uhlmann, smooth and smug, And Annabel, the slyly-sidling Crabb. There was sour Red Kez O’Brien, seemingly forever trying To skewer Julia with some cunning stab; And Tony “Look-Me” Jones, interrupting her in tones that show He thinks he holds sole Royal Right of Gab. There was Fran "Ms Jelly” Kelly, Michelle Grattan lacking teeth, And Miss Trivia, Virginia Trioli, And that smartarse Barrie Cassidy, with snide asides and acidy, In ABC alliances unholy. So Our Ranga Lass was targeted by jibes and sexist jokes: Her Titian locks were tweaked, her finely-chiselled nose took pokes From those of the moral wee-ness of a teensy flaccid penis – And unkindest cut of all came from that wimp-out by Megalogenis! Thus was Julia besieged: just Laura Tingle stood her friend, And challenged Abbott on her comments page; In chivalry and courage she was loyal to the end: The one fair Australian journo of The Age. Just look at that sleazy lot. I don't think I missed anyone I really wanted to name. I was quite proud of myself, I must say, when I’d cobbled all that together, and my Dog, I don’t regret a single pronouncement! If anything they just seem even more whatever-I-said-then, a fact not really to my pleasure, rather to my gratitude to English that I could find the words for a regrettable and parlous situation. Dear Laura Tingle! The ONLY one who said anything louder than a pffftt. A bloody disgrace they are. I am dismayed and at a loss as to how this has come about. Why are all the journos so up-each-other one-sided smartarses of the right these days? What is their driver? It’s not just that Murdoch employs the Lion’s share of them (yeah feed ’em to the Lions, good idea, no I mean lions, the 4-legged kind) (and as for the Lions . . .) . . . . . . But I digress. Those snide pocketpiddly feted journalists seem to love doing it, really to delight in taking the very cheapest of shots, distorting by exaggeration or minimalisation, like a whispering little coven of malicious pubescent girls sniggering and scheming with their despised rivals in their sights. It isn’t just for pay, is what I’m saying, they’re malicious of their own preference. How have they been selected over the years? Why are they so dishonest, most of all so pusillanimous? Why do they support these creepy causes? Why do they not educate the People about climate change, instead of vaselining the Opposition? AND SO ON . . . And their reigning uiQueen is . . . . . . . . Tah Tummmmmmmmmm! "Annabel, the slyly-sidling Crabb." Couldn't have said it better myself. BTW Waheed Aly (sp. I thimk?) you will be vastly relieved to know that you have the Turkey’s Peck of Approval, I think you’re doing pretty good Cobber. George Megalogenis . . . m’mmm . . . On probation since that interview alonga Laura Tingle . . . TPS should hold all these grossly-influential people SAVAGELY to account. These are they who distort the truth to any image of their own liking, and we end up being threatened by such as an Abbortt government. Thank Dog for the Independents’ good sense and essential decency. That was so-o-o-o close. Horrors. All down to the Media. Like in a banana republic. Someone with an analytical mind might like to figure a way of group-rating the performance of these people. Most bigoted? Most incisive? Most erm, oh I don’t know. I’d just like us somehow to build a continuing composite picture of those we despise and those we admire. Because they will all be watching the Fifth Estate.

janice

20/01/2011NormannK, Yes, it never takes long for the blame wagon to find its wheels. After the event, nothing that was done is ever good enough and people will not be satisfied until a scapegoat or two are found and punished as we saw after Black Saturday. Talk Turkey, I look at your "scats" issue this way. I cannot hate an animal for its predatory instincts because it was made that way and doesn't have a human brain that allows it to change its ways. I think all animals (including the human kind) prey on each other. Having said that however, I do think domestic cats are much maligned because of gross irresponsibility of their human owners. I've had many an argument with cat haters incensed over the cat/wildlife issue and I know cats do cause havoc but really the feral cat problem was and is caused by humans. My present cats are two of a litter I took off a feral cat and raised myself - the feral parents were trapped and sent on a one-way ticket to the vets while the kittens went to responsible owners who de-sexed them and keep them in-doors at night. Yes, Paddy is the breed of dog that is used to live with and guard sheep and other herd animals. Paddy, however had other ideas and made it absolutely clear he was born with silver spoon in his mouth and his duty in life is to guard me and mine. To Paddy, the paddocks are part of his estate and while he will dispatch a fox in quick time, he sees no reason at all why he should brave the elements and live in them.

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20/01/2011TT BTW, jj did wish us all a Happy New Year, so we would want to reciprocate, wouldn’t we.

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20/01/2011Folks Just as an exercise, try reading this offering by Natasha Robinson in today’s issue of [i]The Australian: Julia and Giuliani[/i] copied below: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/julia-and-giuliani/story-e6frgdk6-1225991321603? “[i]JULIA Gillard just can't win. As her adopted state of Victoria went underwater, the Prime Minister was still in Brisbane yesterday, home of comeback kid Anna Bligh. “Just as New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani built a national reputation on the back of inspirational leadership during September 11, Bligh has carved her own place in history during Australia's northern catastrophe. Bligh's defiant challenge to the flood's ferocity - "we are Queenslanders" - has made us all feel like Queenslanders. Luckily the blowflies and cork hats fit in pretty well with Queensland's image. Lattes in Altona? Not so much. But still, being on the scene with her compatriots in Kerang or Warracknabeal would have given Gillard a much-needed opportunity to prove she is indeed a leader. Not just a hard-working, politically savvy, erudite minister able to enact tough policy reform and manage an economy, but our very own Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, who, a bit like Janette in Australia's Howard years, really ran Old Blighty for George VI, who said "stuff the blitz" and remained in her bomb-besieged, crumbling capital. Gumboots Julia, the nation needs you, preferably armed with angry tears. Reputations are forged during national crises and a failure to rise to the occasion can prove deeply destructive for a prime minister. The Bligh problem is even more acute for Gillard because it mirrors the problem of that other prime minister, Kevin Rudd, who admittedly did not excel in gumboots and, mercifully for Gillard, was back on safe ground this week schmoozing an uncharismatic British Foreign Secretary who is uneasy on the ear and unlikely to attract more than passing attention.”[/i] Can you understand what Robinson is driving at? Is she saying that Julia Gillard should have been in Kerang and Warracknabeal, threatened by floods in recent days? What about Horsham, or Dimboola, or any of the other towns now threatened by floods? Did Robinson check where Gillard had visited since the flood tragedy began in North Queensland? She could have done what I did in a few seconds – typed ‘Julia Gillard visits to flooded areas’ into Google and she would have seen what I saw at http://www.google.com.au/search?q=Julia+Gillard+visits+to+flooded+areas&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=ivnsuo&ei=q783TYiYOobfcYzkgcIK&start=0&sa=N - several pages of items about her visits to Mackay, Rockhampton, Townsville, Ipswich, Brisbane on several occasions, the Lockyer Valley, Grafton, Carnarvon in the Gascoyne in WA, as well as Echuca in Victoria where she also spoke with Rochester residents. As the Victoria floods are continuing, no doubt she will be returning there. So what is Robinson trying to say – that Julia is no Guiliani, Mayor of New York, who had an awful tragedy to manage, but confined to the tiny island of Manhattan? Surely she’s not comparing Manhattan with the size of Australia. What’s the reference to ‘Lattes in Altona’? We know Julia’s home is in Altona, but when did she last enjoy a latte there? She pleads: ‘Gumboots Julia, the nation needs you, preferably armed with angry tears.’ What on earth is that supposed to mean? That she ought to shed her shoes for gumboots (and the awful outfits that Niki Savva and jj so despise) and cry a bit? Robinson refers to Kevin Rudd in these words: “[i]The Bligh problem is even more acute for Gillard because it mirrors the problem of that other prime minister, Kevin Rudd, who admittedly did not excel in gumboots..”[/i] Please someone, explain to me what that reference means. She throws in a few complimentary words for good measure, I suppose in the interests of ‘balance’, but uses them to contrast with her behaviour during the floods, which Robinson deems to be sub-standard, certainly not Guiliani standard. From beginning to end this piece is sheer gobbledygook and infantile journalism. Yet it purports to come from a professional writer employed by none other the [i]The Australian – Heart of the Nation[/i]. One gets the impression that Robinson is trying to put down Julia, presumably for not visiting more towns in Victoria, specifically Kerang and Warracknabeal, which by the way have so far suffered minimal damage to property in the floods due to thorough preparation and early evacuation, and no loss of life. This despite her having visited, in the space of a couple of weeks, numerous cities and towns in four states. It is a typical put down by [i]The Oz[/i], and deserves our utter contempt. How low is this paper prepared to sink in its demonization of our PM?

Jason

20/01/2011Coalition revives 'great big new tax' slogan as it urges Gillard not to impose floods levy http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/queensland-floods/coalition-revives-great-big-new-tax-attack-as-it-urges-gillard-not-to-impose-floods-levy/comments-fn7iwx3v-1225991733800 Andrew Robb also goes on to say "He wants savings measures identified by the opposition prior to the last election to be considered" Andrew old son you had a $11 billion dollar black hole there were no savings to be had with you dodgy figures.As for the rest of your rant you seem to be saying "if you want to save money just sell the house" tosser!

TalkTurkey

20/01/2011AA, Yes I noted that, and certainly I would not wish to sound churlish . . . I found it a little incongruous though, after what she done said about JG. Like someone spitting on us and wishing us a nice day . . . Still there you go, I do wish jj a good year, but only in the third person until I have more reason to believe in her sincerity and genuine goodwill. In which case she could become our friend. Too easy! Janice, yeah, I know . . . You've heard from Cat haters immemorial, as I've heard from Cat lovers . . . Only problem, Cats are anti-life of other things, it's not a simple question of peaceful co-existence. As freedom for the Pike is death to the Minnows, so freedom for the Cat is death to the Numbats . . . and Woylies . . . and Bilbies . . . and Dunnarts . . . and Bandicoots . . . and Antechinus . . . and Honey Possums . . . and Wrens . . . Robins . . . Grassfinches . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Anyway little Brucie the Bilby would like to meet you Janice. Perhaps he can find a way.

Macca

20/01/2011Perhaps we could look at all this in another light. The Prime Minister is faced with; The Murdoch Mafia, An increasingly insipid and spineless ABC. Bland and vacuous television reportage. all playing their part in a carefully planned campaign to unseat a PM and her Govt. A campaign that is very much like a sponge recipe. You have; Ingredients.....journalists and commentators who are employed by the above. Method.....Whip up the ingredients to a frothy batter, ensuring you get a lot of hot air in the mix. Pour into a cake tin and place into a preheated oven and wait till its done. When cooked take out of the oven, cool, demould and cut up into pieces, ensuring that those who contributed most get the biggest slices and only crumbs remain for the rest. Sounds pretty easy, doesn't it? Realisticly you can't fault their logic. They have, however made one big blue, and it's a pearler! Any chef will tell you that finished dish is only as good as the initial ingredients. And have a look at the quality of the ingredients they have used. They're stale, lifeless, rancid and definately past their use by date. This cake that Murdoch and cohorts are assembling is going to be a flop. A cowpat filled chantilly cream will taste better and have more nutritional value than the flat rancid brick they are in the process of baking. The pleasing irony in all this that Julia Gillard doesn't have to touch the cake, or for that matter, the cowpat. All she has to do just what she is doing. Govern well and fairly. Rupe....your gonna choke on that cake mate.....take big bites.

2353

20/01/2011A question - How long did it take George Bush Jnr to visit New Orleans after the flooding there? I suspect Gillard was much quicker off the mark (and to more places). Yet Bush Jnr is hailed as a role model by conservatives.

Hillbilly Skeleton

20/01/2011Good evening one and all! :) Thursday is my 'Action Day', so today I have been to the Big Smoke(Sydney) with my son so that we could go to Paddy's Markets. Then, it was back to the Central Coast to do the weekly shop. Phew! Anyway, it's post-dinner and I have finally had the time to read through today's comments by one and all. So, may I start out my reply to same by being controversal? Too bad if you don't give me permission, lol, but I actually agreed with jj's comment when I first read it. And a Happy New Year! to you too, jj. I must say, and I am as guilty of this as the next poster, but I think that we might just be viewing all of jj's comments with a degree of inbuilt bias. Now, as I say, I spent the day away from anything political and came to her comment with an untainted perspective, as I always wish to have when I view the comments, but am not always capable of. Luckily so in this case. Thus was I pleased to read jj say that Niki Savva was trying to say in her article that some commentators were overegging the 'wooden' angle a bit wrt the PM. I was pleased because it was so unexpected to read a softening of her previous staunch defence of those same commentators. Good on you jj for attempting to be more civil and reflective, just like we constantly harp on here about a desire for it to become manifest from those who are not in furious agreement with our general perspective. I mean, wouldn't it be sad if we ended up scaring away contributors like jj, who are trying their best to come over to our side of the fence and engage with us in a debate on the issues? Now, I may not agree with jj that Niki Savva was 'pretty mild' in her criticism of Julia Gillard. However, that's jj's opinion and she is entitled to it without a cacophony of derision being rained down on her by the rest of us. However, on the other hand, in fairness, you are all allowed to do that if you want to, of course. Also, might I finally add that I agree wholeheartedly with jj when she says that Julia should ditch the suit with the crazy Purple piping. It doesn't flatter her colouring at all, and the shape of the suit in general is not good for her body. The black and white striped t-shirt is neither here nor there for me, but I must say that she has bought a new mauve ruffled blouse recently which she has been wearing to the flood zones and it flatters her nicely. The ruffles soften her angular features. Now, I make these comments in the light of the fact that we now live in a visual age when it comes to politics, as well as life in general. Sure, our national leader should not be a beauty queen per se(though Sarah Palin in the US is trying to turn that long-held maxim on its head in order to create the first 'Reality' Presidency). However, it is also true to say that as a woman PM Julia has to know that the nation's eyes are upon her and increasingly they want her to 'present' well. As do I, because I want her to have the substance AND style to win the electorate's affections and convince people on all levels of her worth.

Graeme

20/01/2011AA, No doubt yu have heard the argument that if you put a whole lot of monkeys into a room with a whole lot of typewriters, eventually the will write 'War & Peace'. It seems the Oz tried something similar with Natasha Robinson, but all she managed to do was produce a rambling, mostly incoherent, poorly written piece of no value. She may have been trying to drive home a point, but she would be better suited to driving a night cart. There is no building an argument and backing it up with evidence; no logical progression, but I suppose the blank spaces must be filled. What a pity it is usually with something that comes from another blank space.

Hillbilly Skeleton

20/01/2011Now, as for the trip to Queensland, when Julia was 'supposed' to be in Dimboola, or wherever, in Victoria. As far as my knowledge goes, I heard that she went back up to Queensland to consult with the Army General who is leading the Reconstruction effort up there, to inspect on the work done thus far now that most of the water in the State has receded, and because the Reconstruction Authority has just been constituted and members appointed under Wayne Swan and Wayne Goss. So she needed to go up there and inspect the progress being made by the Army and talk with one and all about the next steps along the road to recovery. As I understand it, she also needed to be in Sydney for a Dinner at Kiribilli House last night with the Indian Foreign Minister, who is visiting. Lord knows when she has had time to meet with the UK Foreign Secretary and Defence Minister, though Kevin Rudd & Stephen Smith appear to have been holding up their end well in that regard. Also, she was in Victoria just the day before, so what does Natasha Robinson want ferchrissakes? For Julia to abandon the other affairs of State and her ongoing responsibilities to the people of Queensland? As you could bet London to a brick that if Julia didn't keep going back to Queensland and just concentrated on her 'Home State' that The Australian's harpies would be up her like a rocket. Suffice to say, that Julia will surely be back in Victoria ASAP. Might I also add that the floods in Victoria, whilst very bad, were not of the scale and magnitude of those in Queensland. Finally, might I also add that it didn't take Tony Abbott long to attach himself to Ted Baillieu like a limpet. Pity he couldn't have paid Anna Bligh the same courtesy.

Jason

20/01/2011HS, If Ms Deb has to be stripped back to win the electorate's affections ???????

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20/01/20112353 George W Bush went missing for several days after Cyclone Katrina, and New Orleans is still in a mess. HS Whatever jj said about Julia’s mannerisms and dress, whether they were accurate or not, she/he made no comment about Niki Savva’s seriously flawed ‘research’ method, upon which Savva based most of her conclusions. That was and still is my main criticism of Savva. No we don’t want to frighten away jj, but is it not unreasonable to expect that she/he will address the central issue, in this case Savva’s ‘research’, rather than skirting around it. Regarding the Robinson article, I agree with all you have said. Graeme Maybe it was a roomful of monkeys at work on [i]Julia and Giuliani[/i]. Apart from the appalling quality of the Robinson piece, she is actually paid to write such tosh, her subeditor approved its publication, as presumably the paper’s editor did too.

Hillbilly Skeleton

20/01/2011Jason, I'm still waiting for Deb's office to send me those t-shirts! Next time I see one of them I will remonstrate loudly about it. That should make them get their act together. :) Actually, they're probably still all on their well-deserved break. As for Ms Deb 'stripping back' to win the electorate's affections, you should see her daughters! They give Tony Abbott's daughters a run for their money, as you could well imagine. And they have actually accomplished much with their young lives already, being world-renowned Gaelic Dancing Champions!

NormanK

20/01/2011Ad astra I really must protest. Parodying Niki Savva was a relative walk in the park considering that she had done most of the work for me. Replace names and places and Bob's your uncle. Taking the Mickey out of Lynch and Johnston would have been a somewhat more difficult task since they did try to write a serious piece but it would have been possible. One need only copy their trick of writing the story you wish were true and then attributing it to the main players despite the fact that no corroborating evidence exists to back your claims. But the Robinson piece! That's beyond my skills. Did the woman have an extra long lunch or what? Any attempt to satirize her article would result in an unintelligible string of sentences which bear no relation to each other or the real world. You have done a very good job of dismantling it, however I have to say "but wait there's more". Firstly, why compare Julia Gillard (Prime Minister) with Rudy Giuliani (Mayor) in the first place apart from a bit of lame alliteration in the headline? If comparisons are to be drawn it should be between Julia and George Jnr or Guiliani and Newman or at a stretch Guiliani and Bligh. There's no milage in the Julia//George set-up because Bush Jnr hid his head beneath the sheets and hoped the whole thing would go away whereas Julia has reacted swiftly and decisively. No milage in Guiliani//Newman because they both performed well and anyway Campbell is on the Conservative side of politics. No milage in Guiliani//Bligh because the current accepted line in the Canberra galley is that Bligh has done a marvellous job and breaking from the group might earn Robinson some minus points. So Robinson is picking on Gillard because she is the only available target and for the column to have any impact she must be compared unfavourably with someone who has arguably been in a similar position and performed well. You tackled the "lattes in Altona" nonsense but what on earth is [quote]"Luckily the blowflies and cork hats fit in pretty well with Queensland's image."[/quote] about? Did I miss a photo op of Anna in a corked hat? This is just an image pulled out of the blue and dropped in for a bit of colour. [quote]Gumboots Julia, the nation needs you, preferably armed with angry tears.[/quote] Is this harking back to George W, donning a jacket and a hard hat and climbing up on some scaffolding at Ground Zero? Should she have been mucking in for the cameras while urgent decisions were waiting to be made off-camera? And what's with the angry tears? Should one of the PM's staffers have offered her a couple of drops of glycerine just before fronting the cameras to ensure tears at just the right moment? And the media accuse politicians of bunging it on and faking for the cameras. Give us a break. As for the convoluted reference to Rudd (to which you sought an explanation) - sorry can't help. So your final analysis was entirely accurate - gobbledegook from start to finish. So, all I ask for is slightly more malleable clay with which to shape my creations. I take pride in my work. A parody of the Robinson article would have ended up as an ashtray. A brittle one at that.

Jason

20/01/2011HS, Now that I have my mind back out of the gutter, and I'm thinking better, I was thinking about Normank's piece about looking for someone to blame!as well as the link I posted about the oppositions thinking of getting the old "Great big new tax" out of mothballs! What is it this opposition doesn't get? In Queensland not only haven't they found all the missing they haven't buried all the dead as yet, but no does that stop Abbott? anything to get a cheap headline. The coalition need to get it through their thick skulls and this will be a great test to see if the the mining industry will fix some of the infrastructure problems that affect themselves or wait on the taxpayer? Then we get to the farmers they might vote Nationals but are biggest socialists in this country! at the moment the only thing they want to hear is government subsidy. Abbott calling for the NBN to be scrapped if he had any idea, a lot of the old copper cable in QLD now needs to be replaced!So NBN Co could fast track the roll out! http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/broadband-billions-to-keep-rolling-20110119-19wq9.html which gets me back to the "great big new tax" argument what was the Defence East Timor Levy, Dairy Adjustment Levy, Ansett Levy (which was spent on aviation security instead of Ansett workers' entitlements), National Vegetable Levy, Sugar Industry Reform Levy, the gun buy back Levy , private health rebate , etc? These were all introduced by the Howard government. Abbott when you had Howard to look after you, you were ok! now he's gone you're out of your depth!

Jason

21/01/2011And on the NBN up in the area where Warren Entch (opposition whip) comes from is this! http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/20/3117136.htm Still no fool like an old fool! Abbott your a carcus swinging in the breeze, and long may you swing

Jason

21/01/2011carcus should be carcass

Jason

21/01/2011Yesterday Mr Abbott announced his paid parental leave scheme, which promises mothers their full salary for six months, capped at $75,000 - paid for by a temporary levy on 1.5 per cent levy on large and medium businesses. Mr Abbott maintains this levy is not a tax. "A levy has a specific job and the specific job of this levy is to fund visionary social change and important social reform," he says. http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2010/08/04/2972973.htm

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21/01/2011NormanK Your additional forensic dissection of the Robinson article categorizes it as arguably the worst MSM piece of the week, which after the Savva article is quite an accomplishment. Perhaps we should have a weekly contest for the ‘Most Appalling MSM Article of the Week’. Jason It’s Alice in Wonderland stuff, and Tony Abbott is Humpty Dumpty: [i]"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean − neither more nor less."[/i] So according to Humpty Dumpty Abbott, a levy imposed by the Coalition is a LEVY, while a levy imposed by Labor is TAX. That's all there is to it.

Hillbilly Skeleton

21/01/2011Wow! This really is the reductio ad absurdem when it comes to Abbott's 3 Word Slogans. His latest is: "3 New Taxes". Sigh.

NormanK

21/01/2011Jason You're a prime candidate for being Tony Abbott's Truth Parrot (credit Ms Crabb) squawking in his ear whenever he utters one of his new perpetual present truisms. When he has a Big Mac moment you could remind him that he used to work for the Burger King John Howard. Ad astra "Most Appalling MSM Article of the Week" has possibilities. At the end of each year we could award The Political Sword Golden Keyboard Award for Appalling Journalism. Sub-categories might include : The Colin Wilson Paranormal Award for Crystal Ball Gazing The von Daniken Memorial Award for Most Outrageous Hypothesis The Gymnasts of Australia Award for the Biggest Backflip (Not to be confused with the Southern Hemisphere Marching Band Award for Best About-face) The Lewis Carroll Award for Most Fanciful Story The White Wings Award for Best Beat-up The Hunters and Trappers Award for Best Gotcha The Peter van Onselen Award for Most Flexible Weathervane The Timothy Leary Award for Least Relevance to Reality The Lenny Bruce Award for Most Vulgarities in a Comments Section I'm sure the list could be expanded in order to guarantee that everyone's a winner. Edit to earlier post: [quote]all I ask for is slightly more malleable clay with which to shape my creations.[/quote] should read "from which to shape ........." From which. From which.

Gravel

21/01/2011Phew, a person gets sick, ends in hospital, comes home after 8 days and takes two days to catch up on comments here. Thanks for filling me in on what has been happening. I see Moany Tony is back at it again. I was hoping he would at least wait until missing people have turned up and funerals were over and done with before all his claptrap nonsense started again. As for the media, still useless, especially the ABC. I only heard bits on the news and until today the radio was very listenable, but 774 Melbourne had a field day today stirring about a levy to help with the rebuild after the tragic floods. Ah well, I can stop listening again and get my information from every one here.

NormanK

21/01/2011Gravel Sorry to hear you've been unwell. I hope the worst of it is behind you.

nasking

21/01/2011"It is a typical put down by The Oz, and deserves our utter contempt. How low is this paper prepared to sink in its demonization of our PM?" Aa, so low they feel at home: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitary_sewer They hope to join up w/ their Brit & American counterparts. N'

TalkTurkey

21/01/2011Gravel Hospital? Ooooohhh . . . Hope all OK now. NormanK With which and from which are equally applicable. By which is a little different in this case, but the ablative case used to cover by with and from all 3 in Latin. Again English is more nuanced. Your Awards suggestions are thought-stimulating. I like this one best: "The Hunters and Trappers Award for Best Gotcha" Only thing is, those ( * )s would see it as an eagle feather in their headdress, where it was supposed to be a goose at the anatomically opposite end. Like when the Lying Rodent was ironically termed Honest John and the bastard wore it with pride and turned it into a positive-for-him meme!

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21/01/2011Gravel Sorry to read that you’ve been ill. It might be better not to listen to the news until you’ve recovered your strength and restored your resistance to political tosh. NormanK You certainly have literary talent. You really should be writing for [i]TPS[/i]. What a splendid set of awards you have described. What about assessing MSM articles for: The ‘Dennis Shanahan black is white award’, The ‘Annabelle Crabb I’m trying so hard to be witty award’ The ‘Terry McCrann if you believe my economics you’re crazy award’ The ‘Piers Akerman hatred of Labor award’ and The ‘Andrew Bolt hits are more important than truth award’. I’m sure there are many others.

Jason

21/01/2011AA, Q&A - Dam expert analyses Wivenhoe For a change it's fair and balanced comming from the ABC! Maybe Abbott should have a read! http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/21/3118379.htm?section=justin

2353

21/01/2011There is something definately wrong in Queensland at the moment. Submitted this comment to a "Abbott says. . . " piece in the Curious Snail: "Typical - usual crap from Abbott followed up by even more crap from those that couldn't give two hoots about anyone but themselves. Recovery after the floods that have swamped the East Coast of Australia is far more important than the cheap political point scoring which is the only thing that Abbott is "good" for. That the Courier Mail gives his bigoted and irrational thought bubbles any coverage draws scorn on what was once a well respected member of the media." They published it! Find comment 41 in this link -> http://www.couriermail.com.au/money/abbott-says-pm-using-flood-crisis-to-soften-us-up-for-round-of-new-taxes/comments-e6freqoo-1225992142314 Jason @ 8:47am: - Well spotted. You should submit this to the comments page (or better still ask Abbott's office how the two "levies" are different. By the way, I got a response from Barnaby Joyce's office in relation to dam building while opposing the Traveston Crossing Dam (see a long way up). After 3 days, it's still doing my head in with the sheer lack of logic displayed! It's probably better that I don't do everyone else's head in as well!

NormanK

21/01/2011Jason That ABC interview has stimulated a gripe of mine which has been rattling around in the brain-box for a while now. It seems that the media is more than happy to open a story with "the Opposition says" so why can't they include the opposition (or the perpetrator) in questions around politicisation. That is, where the interviewer asked the dam expert [quote]Do you think the debate about flooding and building dams has been politicised?[/quote] why not include "by the federal opposition"? If the price we pay is that the ALP is named in instances where it can be shown that they have politicised a topic, then so be it. By not naming the instigator the media allow their audience to automatically assume that ALL politicians have taken steps to polarise the electorate on the subject in question. I don't recall Labor calling a press conference in order to declare "we will not build any more dams" prior to Joyce's announcements that more must be built to mitigate floods. And yet, to read that ABC article, one could be forgiven for thinking that both sides of politics are equally guilty of dragging the subject into the political arena and taking a stance dictated by party dogma.

Hillbilly Skeleton

21/01/2011Gravel, I feel your pain, sister. :) I,too ended up in hospital at the end of last year but only for a day, thank goodness. Ad Astra is right, don't expend too much energy getting hot under the collar at Tony Abbott or the news outlets that want to turn a Levy(which Howard had 4 or 5 of, as Jason attested), into a TAX!!! Take it easy, and I hope it's not too hot where you are. Watching a little Tennis is probably better for your health and R n R. Plus keeping up with the merry band of jolly political japesters at TPS.

Hillbilly Skeleton

21/01/2011I was right! I was right! Tony Abbott is suggesting a 'Tax Holiday' for Queensland Business. Not only do the businesses want handouts from the government now but they also want to avoid paying their fair share of tax, according to the party of business. Obviously Tony Abbott is not au fait with the predicted surge in business that will be occurring in Queensland as everyone restocks every last thing that they lost in the floods. He seems to be trying to get us to think that business will instead be languishing for months on end. What a crock this charlatan is trying to sell to the people.

Hillbilly Skeleton

21/01/20112353, Oh go on, please let us into your little secret from Bananaby's office. I love it when opportunistic politicians twist themselves into knots composed of non sequiturs. :)

Jason

21/01/2011Normank, Yes this business of "the Opposition says" has bothered me as well for probably for as long as you! that said I can only hope that come Monday 24/01 /11 on network Ten George Negus does what he can do best when he interviews people! Red Kerry may have gone but I hope old George shows the commercial media how it is done! If "we" on blogs can do a bit of research about x why the hell can't the media with all the staff at their finger tips?

BSA Bob

21/01/2011With his demands for a "tax holiday" & ideas of flogging off more of the silverware to pay for repairs, I think Abbott is trying to drag debate onto what is fertile ground for the liberals. I'm referring to what I see as their talent for convincing people that all this activity can go on without any expense or inconvenience to them personally. I can't see this argument holding up too well to scrutiny, but it probably won't be scrutinised. We had Action Tony here on the ABC News tonight, scrubbing at a wall Somewhere In Queensland in front of a couple of bystanders. Perhaps I misviewed but it seemed to me that he shoved the broom back at one of the onlookers an instant sooner than the scene required.

Hillbilly Skeleton

21/01/2011BSA Bob, You mean the cameraman kept the camera rolling longer than Abbott thought they had and the editor and producer decided to leave it in. :) Good!

Hillbilly Skeleton

21/01/2011Actually, now that I think about it, Abbott should go up to Queensland as often as is possible. Only then might the scales fall off the eyes of Queenslanders who voted for his sorry lot in 2010.

NormanK

21/01/2011BSA Bob I live for those moments (early return of broom to actual worker). If I were somewhat wealthier I would pay good money for some of the camera tapes of Abbott's outings into the real world. Ten, twenty, thirty seconds either side of the edit points would be enough to catch him out. I can only imagine that some of those camera operators must hate his guts for the blatant two dimensional falsehoods he peddles. "A little more to the right please Tony. Broom a touch higher. Can we smear just a little bit of mud on his cheek? Carl! Carl! Some mud for Mr Abbott please Carl! Is that clean mud? No, no, no, not too much! Oh look just let me do it! There! Now give us a nice bearing-up under the strain smile. Lovely. Did you get that? Could we go again Tony? We had reflection off a windshield. Nice, nice. Perhaps a bit more vigourous with the broom. There we go. Lovely. Happy on the camera? That's a wrap then. Watch where you step dear, there's water on the ground everywhere. Don't want to spoil those shoes, do we?" You are also entirely right about [quote] their talent for convincing people that all this activity can go on without any expense or inconvenience to them personally.[/quote] Isn't that the ideal government?

Hillbilly Skeleton

21/01/2011NormanK, It's exactly the same schtick that the Republicans run with in the US. No one has been asked to pay for the Wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, and they have advocated Tax Cuts for all as well. Not only that, but their latest trope, as Abbott parroted today, is the call for Business to pay less tax because it 'creates jobs', or in our case, will keep workers in jobs. A load of baloney, as I said before, because the economy in Queensland is going to take off like a rocket once the rebuilding gets underway.

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/01/2011Debunking Lord Monckton's Climate Change Denialism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfA1LpiYk2o

NormanK

22/01/2011I have waited until sufficient time had passed after the federal election before pointing out the situation in Queensland with regard to accessing news. Looking at newspapers as we come down the east coast we have : Atherton Tableland - Tablelander - Murdoch Cairns - The Cairns Post - Murdoch Innisfail - Innisfail Advocate - Murdoch Townsville - Townsville Bulletin - Murdoch Bowen - Bowen Independent - Murdoch Mackay - Mackay Mercury - APN News & Media Ltd Rockhampton - Morning Bulletin - APN News & Media Ltd Gladstone - Gladstone Observer - APN News & Media Ltd Gold Coast - Gold Coast Bulletin - Murdoch Brisbane - The Courier Mail - Murdoch Brisbane - The Sunday Mail - Murdoch For some serious reading you could go to the big smoke and buy : The Australian - Murdoch The Weekend Australian - Murdoch This might go some way toward explaining (but not excusing) voting trends in Queensland at the last election, the misunderstanding and subsequent resistance to the mining tax and the attitude shift towards Rudd. Uncle Rupert has got us by the short and curlies up here in Queensland and unless you deliberately swim against the current you just get swept up in whatever lies he cares to send down the pipeline. We may be rednecks but we are rednecks who are force-fed a daily diet of News Ltd propaganda.

Acerbic Conehead

22/01/2011BSA Bob, I heard the person Tones handed the broom to was a woman. Unfortunately, the camera didn't roll even longer, as I believe he then handed her his basket of ironing.

2353

22/01/2011[quote]HS wrote: 2353, Oh go on, please let us into your little secret from Bananaby's office. I love it when opportunistic politicians twist themselves into knots composed of non sequiturs.[/quote] OK, here goes: [quote]Senator Joyce's office wrote: The Senator does not retract his opposition to Traveston Dam. It was a shallow dam on a leaky base that would not have been viable. The Senator stands by his call for new dams. Here are some facts you may be interested in: - The BOM estimates that there are 261 large dams* in Australia with the capacity to store about 74,000 gigalitres - Australia uses (across households, business and farms) about 15,000 gigalitres a year. So we can store about 5 times our annual usage - This is high by international standards but represents the variable nature of our climate. We need to store water in wet times to get through dry times - In 1980, dams stored around 4.5 megalitres per Australian. Because we have not built dams of any substantial size since then, we now only store around 3.6 megalitres per person. - If we build no dams by 2050, we will only store 2.3 mega litres per person or only 3.5 years’ supply of water (using ABS definitions) - With a growing population, particularly in Queensland and Western Australia, it would be nonsensical to rule out the consideration of new dams to meet the water challenges that will clearly arise in the future.[/quote] This had the accompanying graph but no justification or links for the statements made - which gives me an idea (back soon) [evil grin]

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/01/20112353, Thanks for that! It provides grist for my mill too.(There really should be an 'Evil Grin' emoticon). dare I make a couple of points? Yes indeedee! 1. Knowing that Mr Joyce has now condemned the Traveston Dam as unviable because it would have been 'a shallow dam on a leaky base', where does that therefore leave the siting of dams on the rivers that are on the flood plains that, erm, flood? 2. By 'leaky' does Mr Joyce mean 'leaking' into the Great Artesian Basin that covers most of Queensland? Well, if so, there goes the prospect of dams across most of the rest of Queensland then. 3. Now I think I have this right, but knowing a bit about the Water Cycle, if Mr Joyce(I call him 'Mr Joyce' because he never refers to Julia Gillard as the Prime Minister, thus no 'Senator Joyce' from me) whacks a heap of Evaporation Ponds across Queensland, and especially Western Australia, won't that just eventually lead to more rain coming down? And don't you just loathe the way they manipulate numbers and dates to suit their arguments as if we exist in a stasis where reflections on the past and projections into the future are relevant now?

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/01/2011This is another great piece by Paul Krugman about the decline of logic: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/17/opinion/17krugman.html?_r=2&src=me&ref=general

NormanK

22/01/2011HS Thanks for introducing me to Paul Krugman. He really is a must-read isn't he? Jason You might be interested in this article from Mr Krugman as it goes some way toward explaining the ideological divide in the US over health reform in terms far better than those I expressed earlier on this thread. Not to say that I back off from the belief that big insurers are spending big bucks to defend their turf (much like the miners here) but Krugman also points to a new ideological stance from Republicans which underpins their belief that welfare is morally wrong. Shipping the unemployed off to work in the mines is a good parallel example coming from Regressives in this country. [quote]There’s no middle ground between these views. One side saw health reform, with its subsidized extension of coverage to the uninsured, as fulfilling a moral imperative: wealthy nations, it believed, have an obligation to provide all their citizens with essential care. The other side saw the same reform as a moral outrage, an assault on the right of Americans to spend their money as they choose.[/quote] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/opinion/14krugman.html?ref=paulkrugman

2353

22/01/2011Another email sent this morning pointing out that they have not substantiated anything - its just opinion. Brisbane Times today has a couple of stories about Abbott's "cheap point scoring". This one is especially pointed. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/a-flood-of-opportunities-for-point-scoring-20110121-19zyg.html

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/01/2011NormanK, That's my pleasure. :) His articles, I find, espouse universal truths that are reflected in the ideology and behaviour of Rgeressive political parties the world over. I saw it in this country under Howard. How he encouraged the 'dumbing down' of the nation and engendered the cult of the 'Noble Tradie', who glorified in, and was glorified by the media, an obvious Himboness. Not that I begrudge some people in our society being less intelligent than others and being comfortable in their skin, what I resented was Howard's push of the nation in that direction. Just as he was chucked out he was starting to glorify the fact that some kids wanted to leave school at a young age, saying it wa a waste of time them going to Year 12. Whilst at one and the same time rising powers like China and India were realising the benefits of educating their citizens well, and are profiting from it now at our expense. Also, when you dumb down the electorate you make room for demagogues and ranting rabble rousers to get a toehold in people's minds because they are not intellectually equipped to rationalise the arguments that are put to them. A listen to an Alan Jones show, or a read of an Akerman or Bolt blog will confirm that. This is why it was heartening this week to read in the paper here that one of our Universities is taking Julia Gillard's desire to see 40% of local students graduate with a Uni degree by 2020 seriously and publicise the fact that their enrolments are up over 10% this year. More power to them I say!

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/01/2011NormanK, Did you know Paul Krugman won the Nobel Prize for Economics?

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/01/2011Mike Carlton on Tony Abbott playing cheap politics over the Queensland floods: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/a-flood-of-opportunities-for-point-scoring-20110121-19zyg.html

TalkTurkey

22/01/2011Swordsfolk, Here are the people that have posted this year, just thought Yous might be interested. Sorry if I've missed anyone, except for one unperson, here denoted thus ( * ),who owes one other person an apology. 2535, Acerbic Conehead, Ad astra, adelaidegirl, BH, Bilko, Bring Back Maxine, BSA Bob, CALLIGULA, Colen, D Mick Weir, Graeme, GrannyAnny, Gravel, Hillbilly Feral Skeleton, Jason, jj, Kerry, Lyn, Macca, Miglo, Nasking, NormanK, PatriciaWA, Rx, sawdustmick, tredlgt, and TT.

D Mick Weir

22/01/2011As many of us are missing [b]The luverly Lyn[/b] and her [b]Daily Links[/b]. A small offering from some of my readings follows. Please note I suffer no delusions that I could in any way fill Lyns, no doubt, dainty shoes as my feet are most likely too big and I often have at least one of my feet planted firmly in my mouth I am sure Lyn wouldn't want my slobber anywhere near her footwear!! [b]Don Arthur @ Club Troppo[/b] is probably looking forward to Lyns' return as much as many here. Don is hanging in there though and gives us [b]Missing Link Friday – 21 January 20111[/b] http://clubtroppo.com.au/2011/01/21/missing-link-friday-21-january-2011/ Don fills some of the void with some links on [b][i]Food, Ladies of leisure?, And the value of education is …?, Higher education and budget cuts[/b] and [b]Google ngram[/b][/i] The debate on a possible 'Flood Levy' is taking on some of the attributes of the Brisbane River tributaries; taking many twists and turns. Over at [b]B Sides, Tim Dunlop[/b] has a piece [b]Deficit attention disorder[/b] [i]'Annabel Crabb asks a good question: "Why is the surplus such a big deal?" Unfortunately she gives a bad answer: ...'[/i] I will not include a link to Ms Crabbs' article as you can follow the link at Tims' site if you wish. http://tjd.posterous.com/deficit-attention-disorder Tim Follows up with: [b]Our brain-dead politics[/b] [i]'No surprise to see The Australian framing a story around something the Opposition said: TONY Abbott says the federal budget could be "easily" reined in to pay for the Queensland floods recovery, as the political brawl over a possible disaster levy intensifies.'[/i] I can't help but agree with Tims' observation: [i]'Labor long ago bought into this framing and have staked their reputation on it. That is, they have decided that a deficit is to be understood as failure and a surplus as success.'[/i] IMHO Labor made a big mistake by buying into this 'fiscal rectitude' nonsense. http://tjd.posterous.com/our-brain-dead-politics Over at [b]Cafe Whispers, Nasking[/b] has posted [b]Government says NO to Abbott & Howard’s communication dark ages[/b] [i]'It didn’t take long for the Mad Monk to use the QLD flood disaster to call for executing the National Broadband Network.:'[/i] Nasking makes some pertinent points. Worth a quick Squiz. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/government-says-no-to-abbott-howards-communication-dark-ages/ On the floods and dam management over at [b]Larvatus Prodeo, Brian[/b] has posted [b]Wivenhoe dam management[/b] [i]'Unable to wait for the outcomes of the Queensland floods royal commission all sorts of people have been quick out of the blocks to criticise the management of the Wivenhoe Dam.'[/i] Some good info in this article. Those from BrisVegas and surrounds would be well advised to read and process this article. http://larvatusprodeo.net/2011/01/21/wivenhoe-dam-management/ At the 'must read' [b]Grogs Gamut[/b] we find [b]Stewart yet again shows how it is done.[/b] [i]'A quick (and yeah lazy) post tonight. ... the Tucson massacre, but as ever when it comes to American politics, Jon Stewart pretty well says all you wished you had thought to say first.'[/i] Another fine drop from a great brewmiester: http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2011/01/stewart-yet-again-shows-how-it-is-done.html And for something completely different drop in on Gregs' [b]Friday Night Relaxer: The Pixar Genius[/b] http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2011/01/friday-night-relaxer-pixar-genius.html Hang in there folks only ten more sleeps and Lyn will be back.

D Mick Weir

22/01/2011[b]Gravel[/b] @ January 21. 2011 12:43 PM Hope that you are recovering - best wishes from us. I was visiting Melbun over the last few days and caught the tail end of the bit on the levy. Some of the texts Waleed read out were, well to be polite, 'whacky' though others seemed on the mark. I only got a small bit of the start of the Friday Wrap and was interested in point Sally(?) whatshername was making about [i]'What is the problem with Government Debt ... ?'[/i]. Unfortunately had to race to a meeting and missed the rest. Did you listen? Any good points?

D Mick Weir

22/01/2011Back on Topic: [b]Banking [i]Reform(?)[/i] Peter Martin[/b] informs us [b]You think your ATM fees are high! Swan gets serious[/b]: [i]'Treasurer Wayne Swan has signaled a crackdown down on extortionate ATM fees in the bush setting up a joint Reserve Bank Treasury taskforce and giving it just one month to report. The government has been told of one automatic teller machine in remote South Australia that charges $10 per withdrawal.'[/i] Ouch http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/01/you-think-your-atm-fees-are-high-swan.html

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/01/2011D Mick Weir, You're just doing the Links because you want us to give you a bejewelled Pussy Cat brooch. :) Might I also just add, Thank You very much for making the effort.

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/01/2011A couple of the reporters at The Australian not toeing the Liberal Party line? 'Her(JG's) comments put her at odds with Tony Abbott, who yesterday reprised his scare campaign from the emissions trading scheme to brand any floods levy a "great big new tax".' http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/queensland-floods/bill-shorten-lays-down-law-to-insurers/story-fn7iwx3v-1225992631815

D Mick Weir

22/01/2011Hi HS much as I would be honoured if a bejewelled PuddyCat bwoch were bestowed upon me I suspect it wouldn't match my handbag :-)

Ad astra reply

22/01/2011Folks I’ve posted another characteristically thoughtful piece from HillbillySkeleton titled: [i] Why can’t we live together? We’re all part of the human race, after all[/i]. Enjoy. I’ll leave this post open so we can perhaps reach 600 comments, which would be a record. By the way, the post on my computer has displayed all the side panel items at the bottom of the page. I have no idea why this is so but hope I can fix it with the help of my son-in-law. It looks silly, but doesn’t impact on Hillbilly’s piece.

Hillbilly Skeleton

22/01/2011To help us get to 600 posts I'll contribute a cartoon. :) http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=489124487687&set=a.383353882687.164941.321732052687

Jason

22/01/2011There are the normal ( . )( . ), the silicone ( + )( + ), the perfect (o)(o) Some are cold (^)(^) and some belong to grandmothers \./\./ And let’s not forget the very large(o Y o), the very small (.)(.) and the asimetrical (•)(.) We love them all!...Post this message on your wall and say ┌П┐(◉_◉)┌П┐ to breast cancer!!

NormanK

22/01/2011[b]Her (Prime Minister Gillard's) comments put her at odds with Tony Abbott, who yesterday reprised his scare campaign from the emissions trading scheme to brand any floods levy a "great big new tax".[/b] Yea verily and it was on this day, the Twenty-Second Day of the First Month of the Two Thousand and Eleventh Year of Our Lord that the Scribes did place the Name of the UnGodly One BEFORE the Name of the Wise And Holy Sage. This breach of Guidelines as explained by Rupert the Merciful caused the Wise and Holy Sage to lose his Long-Suffering Temper. For although the Ungodly One is the Elected Representative of her Peers who in turn are Elected Representatives of the People, it is the Wise and Holy Sage who is the Repository of the People's Spirit and Wisdom. Had he not on the previous day, the Twenty-First Day of the First Month of the Two Thousand and Eleventh Year of Our Lord, proclaimed that a Flood Levy was [b]UNNECESSARY[/b]? Had not the UnGodly Ranga contradicted the Holey Mage? What Lowly Scribes would dare to Offend the People's Repository by uttering Her Name before His? Enraged, the Wise and Holy One called forth a Lightning Bolt from on High to smite the Scribes to dust. Thor, the Mighty but Aging Public Servant in Charge of Storm Accessories, rose from his Bed, cursed his Enlarged Prostate and sought to do his Master's bidding. Great Historians, like Great Economists, have many Divergent Theories as to what happened that Fateful Night. Myopic and Groggy from Interrupted Sleep Patterns, the Once Mighty Thor hurled his Lightning Bolt at the Miscreant Scribes. Hundreds of Kilometres (as the Crow flies) or a Fairie's Fart (astronomically) Off-Target, the Lightning Bolt pierced the Window of a Bicycle Shop selectively destroying the Brand New Racing Bike belonging to the Wise and Holy One. From that Day forth, the Twenty-Third Day of the First Month of the Two Thousand and Eleventh Year of Our Lord, the Man of Iron; Wise, Holy Parsley of the People; Repository of Spirit and Wisdom would never again win a Race and many attribute this Fall to the Blasphemy of the Scribes who dared to place the Name of the UnGodly One BEFORE the Name of the Blessed of God; the Master of Levies; Anointed Broom-Wielder - the Right Honourable Tony Abbott. A Dark Day for this Wide Brown (very very wet) Land.

NormanK

23/01/2011Ad astra I'll use another of these token posts to say thanks for keeping TPS open over the break. I hope it hasn't intruded too much on your well-earned break. I for one have found it a worthwhile exercise especially in light of the floods and the incident in Arizona. Looking forward to your return in February. Lyn The balloons are inflated, the streamers are up and I have all of the ingredients for a lovely cake. All we need now is you.

Hillbilly Skeleton

23/01/2011I think lyn might just be waiting to make her debut for this year with Ad Astra's next blog in early Feb. (As she thinks to herself, "That makes it 594" :) )

NormanK

23/01/2011HS Thanks for that. A Leo of German descent has all of his ducks in a row well in advance. (Heh heh - that's 595.) Who's not pulling their weight?

Jason

23/01/2011Tasmanian Premier to stand down http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/23/3119174.htm?section=justin

Ad astra reply

23/01/2011NormanK Thank you for your words of appreciation about keeping the blog open over the end-year-break. It has taken extra time, but the quality of the pieces from HS and the comments that have been made has made it well worthwhile. When I started TPS in September 2008, I had no idea it would become so popular and would meet the need of many who visit here to communicate with each other, even over a holiday period. HS is to be warmly thanked for keeping the site buzzing along while I took a break from full time oversight of the blog. According to my count, there are only a few more comments needed to reach a record 600.

Hillbilly Skeleton

23/01/2011NormanK, This contribution actually has relevance to the blog! http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/01/you-think-your-atm-fees-are-high-swan.html Now, don't forget who also lurks when we become about setting records. :)

Acerbic Conehead

23/01/2011"Now, don't forget who also lurks when we become about setting records." Moi, FS? Not this time, as I copped enough flack the last time I pulled a stunt like that! By the way, I've tried a bit of an experiment below with embedding a utube button, like you've been doing lately. If it doesn't work, maybe you could give me some advice? <iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Mq5CSJ7LzrU" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

Acerbic Conehead

23/01/2011Alright...if no-one else wants it...heh...heh...

Hillbilly Skeleton

23/01/2011AcerbicC., I was actually informed by Tom over at Cafe Whispers that when the Embed code for You Tube doesn't work you just copy and paste the address bar details and Voila! Btw, congratulations! I thought you might drop in to see where we were at numerically speaking. Also, if the address bar method doesn't work out directly, AA might be able to help if you contact him via the 'Contact Me' box at the top of the blog, then he can use some digital whizzbangery to put it out here for you, when you need the service. :)

Ad astra reply

24/01/2011AC As HS says, just paste the URL for the YouTube item copied from the address box into your comment and it should work. The ‘embed’ code has to be handled differently, through an HTML editor. Folks As we’re passed the record number of comments for any piece on [i]TPS[/i] of 600, I’m now closing comments on this piece.
T-w-o take away o-n-e equals?