Is the Liberal Party guilty of ‘race baiting’?

On the last day of the most recent session of federal parliament, Julia Gillard accused the Opposition of 'Race Baiting'.

Now, the immediate response from the media, predictably, was, 'How could she say that?' Tony Abbott, just as predictably, sidled up the next day to whatever sympathetic media outlet would have him on, and condemned, with a straight face to camera, the PM for her 'baseless slur'. As well as the previous day in parliament launching one of his entirely predictable ‘Motions to Suspend Standing Orders to Censure the Prime Minister’, going to the outrage he felt about her accusation.

So, I thought, rather than just take his word for it, I'd go in search of the proof for the Prime Minister's assertion and its validity, one way or the other.

First, let's start with a definition:
Race Baiting: Strictly speaking, Race Baiting ‘is the act of using racially derisive language, actions, or other forms of communication in order to anger or intimidate or coerce a person or group of people.’

As this definition refers to defiling a particular group of people in a society based upon their race, e.g. Chinese, Black or White, then coming to a conclusion about whether the Coalition has been 'Race Baiting' with respect to the Muslims in our society, or those attempting to seek Asylum here, or Muslims in the world in general as part of some concerted Conservative attack on them, then, I guess you have to say that Tony Abbott was right and Julia Gillard was wrong. The Coalition is not guilty of 'Race Baiting'. The Muslims are not ‘a race of people’.

However, and this is where I think the PM was right, and probably where she was coming from, the term 'race' in this context can be construed very broadly to include the social constructs which define race or racial difference as ethnic, religious, gender and economic differences. This broader definition covers the vilification of a religious diaspora such as the Muslims. It's not strictly correct, as you can deduce for yourselves, but it's understandable how vilification and the term 'Race Baiting' have become co-mingled.

Which brings me to the point then of what exactly is it that the Coalition ARE guilty of, if not 'Race Baiting', as it's obvious to Blind Freddy and his dog that they are guilty of some sort of generalised and organised slur against those 'invaders' of our shores via the haphazard mode of the leaky Slow Asylum Seeker Boat to Australia. Who have in common with the 'Terrorists' (just don't mention the White Supremacist ones), the fact that, in the main, they are Muslim.

I think where a lot of people are getting confused with what is going on here and elsewhere with respect to Muslim 'infiltration' and 'Race Baiting' is that it bears a great many eerie similarities to past eras of Australian and World history: the 'White Australia Policy' here, and the 'Jim Crow' era of race hate and vilification of African Americans in the USA. Unlike, in the John Lennon song, where 'Woman is the Nigger of the World', the tide has turned against Muslims such that, 'Muslims are the Nigger of the World' now. Any sort of mealy-mouthed equivalency from the likes of Cory Bernardi wherein he trys to paper over his overt anti-Muslim remarks, by saying he just meant anti-radical Islam, is just playing a semantic game. He, and many others in the Coalition mean to encourage an attitudinal bias against Muslim members of our community, and those seeking to become part of it as Asylum Seekers. In general, they are doing it knowingly and deliberately.

To get an idea about how far down the Islamophobia rabbit hole we have gone, because I think in the final analysis, without having to be specific about it, that was what Julia Gillard was implying that the Coalition were guilty of, I thought I'd therefore take a trip into this netherworld in Australia that the Coalition are playing to with their dog whistles and pick off the scab that covers what is festering underneath.

Surprisingly, or unsurprisingly, I haven't quite decided which of this religious bigotry is being nurtured and nourished by...the Christian faithful. That is, the religious!

First, let's start with a Christian crew called the 'SaltShakers'. 'Christian ethics in action', so they say. Go to their website.  

What you get instead from these self-aggrandising 'Christian ethicists', is flat-out homophobia, Islamophobia, Climate Change Scepticism, sanctimony about the Labor Party's 'Lies' and 'Broken Promises' (funny how they never highlight the Coalition and self-proclaimed sinner, Tony Abbott's form in this area though), and, humbug when it comes to their 'pro-active' discrimination as regards their 'right' to choose who works for them in any of their organisations, schools or business enterprises. Of course it goes without saying that these intolerant bigots dressed up as happy families and ethical individuals are rabidly anti same sex marriage, anti-pharmaceutical contraception and anti-abortion. In short, people who wish to impose their 'values' on you and me just as much as the groups whom they vilify. Also, if you have a look at the website, check out the left-hand side of the home page. Want to know where all the organised e-mail campaigns to our Members of Parliament are coming from? Wonder no longer.

That's the 'Shiny Happy People' side of the seamy underbelly of our society that Julia Gillard says the Coalition are dog-whistling to with their mischaracterization of the effect Muslims are having on Australia.

Further down the rabbit hole we have 'The Q Society', whose motto, in the good old style of the Culture Warrior demographic of unbending Coalition support is, 'Upholding Australian Values' 

These people have realised that a reasonable-looking spokesperson is the key to disarming the sceptical and winning over a lot of people who otherwise may have been antagonistic to your message than if you instead put out as your media talent someone who looks like Adolf in a skirt or a suit. And here she is, the entirely anodyne and harmless looking Ms Vickie Janson, a migrant herself (!) from New Zealand. Now, if you read through this candidate's statement from the recent Victorian State Election, where the perennial candidate for the Christian Democrat Party laid out her platform you can see that she has deliberately sought to go down the road of equating even moderate Muslims with terrorist groups such as Hizb Ut Tahrir:  

Also, you can see how she has honed in on Australia's most eloquent and reasonable spokesman for Muslims in Australia, Waleed Aly, as her target for attack. Smart because, if she can delegitimize this most rational Muslim's credibility in the eyes of the public, then it will be that much easier therefore to negatively characterise all others in the Muslim diaspora in Australia, save those who meekly agree to subsume themselves and their religious beliefs and conform to a broadly Judeo-Christian set of 'values'. Which Ms Janson and her Christian Democratic godfathers, such as Fred Nile, have deemed to be appropriate for modern-day Australia. And I use the term 'modern' advisedly because the world that the Vickie Janson's, the Fred Nile's, the Cory Bernardi's et. al. want to plunge us back into is that of a strictly patriarchal, conformist, Christian conservative paradigm, where women know their place is behind the ironing board wrangling the creases out of Tony Abbott's crisp, whiter than white shirts, baking Pumpkin Scones to Flo BJP's recipe for Fred, and pumping out Stepford babies for Cory. Of course, now that the 'Feminism' genie is out of the bottle, and in line with the acknowledgement, post-Thatcher, that some women should be allowed out of the kitchen to lead (as long as they go home to cook tea and perform their 'conjugal duties', I suppose), we have started to see Conservative women take from feminism what they want and bin the rest. Thus we have Vickie Janson, Sarah Palin, and an increasing number of others, proudly wearing their Conservative Christian credentials on their sleeve, but in an 'empowered' way, a la Feminism, however seeking again to impose, along with their Conservative Christian brothers, the same old straitjacket and mindsets, with minor modifications merely for decorative and distraction purposes.

Still further down the rabbit hole, and beyond the bright and breezy spokes-models for the anti-Moslem push, when you start to get down among the weeds of their intolerance and belief in a Judeo-Christian Supremacy (which appears to have replaced that nasty 'White' sort of Supremacy as they have co-opted a wider demographic of different skin colour but essential belief in those J-C 'values'), you then begin to see the seamy side of it all.

Larry Stillman, in a very cogent piece for New Matilda, called 'The Rise of Organised Intolerance', points out that the coalescing of this new grouping of people who are organising the ramping up of Muslim Intolerance runs through conservative sections of the Jewish community, the Q Society, the Salt Shakers, and through a myriad of other groups, some of them nominally 'Left'( though as I have always said, the Far Left and the Far Right have a lot in common and are closer bedfellows than they would like to admit), such as those who support the rights of Indigenous West Papuans to independence from Indonesia, a Muslim State, of course.

A lot of the Anti-Muslim emotions are stoked at this website.

And guess what? There's a 'Say No to Burqas!' letter you can sign there. I'm sure Senator Bernardi is well chuffed about that.

Which only goes to prove my point, really. No, the Coalition are not guilty of 'Race Baiting', specifically, as accused by the PM, or, only 'yes' in the broad sense, as I outlined earlier. However, yes, the Coalition are as guilty as sin of stoking religious intolerance and feeding the beast whose maw is growing bigger by the day on the internet.

Are they knowingly complicit in this? Only they know that.

All I know is that President Obama put up the correct signpost in this area when he said the other day, “Despite all our differences, culture, religion, language; ultimately Humankind is one.”

What do you think? Do you think we should be rearing up against the Muslims? Learning to live with them, and they with us? How?

One thing there is no question about, the Coalition stand condemned. They ARE guilty, looking at the 'Field Evidence', as Tony Abbott has taken to parroting in the style of John Howard, of stoking the fires of Religious Intolerance. And I didn't even get around to mentioning Scott Morrison!

Rate This Post

Current rating: 0.1 / 5 | Rated 20 times

2353

19/03/2011Short answer HS - YES. While they may not be doing in in a "Dictionary" sense, they are certainly loading the bases in a similar fashion to those that would have sent the Greeks, Italians, Vietnamese, Sudanese and so on back to "where they came from" over the last 50 years. Bottom line here is that Australia is a country founded on immigrations. Everybody who lives here is descended from immigrants - even the ancestors of the current Aboriginals walked here some 40,000 years ago across a land bridge if you believe the anthropologists. So if we are the fair minded egalitarian society that we claim to be - we should all go back to where we came from". P.S. Lyn thanks for the compliment on writing on the last post - in return thanks for the Daily Links, I don't know how you do it! HS, I hope you didn't have to spend much time disinfecting your computer after those links were obtained!

Feral Skeleton

19/03/20112353, No worries! All in a day's work in the name of ferreting out the truth behind the hard as nails plastic facade Abbott & Co are attempting to put on their true face. :)

Lyn

19/03/2011Hi Hillbilly Thankyou for your Column this morning. You are nominated for the "Golden Loyality Award", for your wonderful, sincere, genuine,dedicated, loyal support, to "The Political Sword". We do have a fantastic time here discussing a variety of subjects, all in our own best interest and our country. Mr Abbott was race baiting and still is race baiting, it's written all over rhis face. Scott Morrison, Cory Bernardi they are race baiting. Mr Abbott is using this method for political reasons, another hand grenade, in an effort to stir up the unawares and the ignorant. I believe in what President Obama said: “[quote]Despite all our differences, culture, religion, language; ultimately Humankind is one[/quote].” There is way too much intolerance in Australia, mostly from the media, we only need to look at the way they treat the Prime Minister of the Country and our Government. I know this is off your topic on "Race Baiting", Hillbilly, but I think it demonstrates intolerance baiting. This is gross intolerance of the Government, funny how Hartcher fails to say, if the Independents had have supported Abbott he would have been in the same position: [i]Labor's end - that's all, folks , Peter Hartcher, SMH[/i] Labor did not win the election. It failed to win a majority of the seats in the House of Representatives. It was unable to form government in its own right. That was why it spent 17 days in a competitive negotiation with the independents in a frantic scrabble to put together a workable majority. As a party able to offer itself as a viable government, [b]Labor is not just under existential threat. It is finished.[/b] Unless, of course, it can engineer an extraordinary resurgence. Labor's looming death as a stand-alone political entity is the biggest story in contemporary Australian politics. even if she can win passage of a carbon tax through the Parliament, [b]it will not be enough to save her, and Labor, from oblivion.[/b] http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/labors-end--thats-all-folks-20110318-1c0k0.html

Feral Skeleton

19/03/2011lyn, Thank you for the link to Peter Hartcher's article. He blows hot and cold, doesn't he? One week he's all over the government like a rash(last week), this week he's condemning them to a fast descent through the 7 stages of Hell. I think he's suffering from 'The Great Unhinging' that Possum predicted would happen. It seems that the political journosphere are having to cope with the reality that they are just another source for political opinion, and not the Delphic Oracles they had been pumped up to be before the Web 2.0 scene got into full swing and we all started having our own opinions and putting together pieces that outshone theirs by a country mile, and showed them up to be the political equivalent of the Wizard of Oz, cloistered in their Ivory Towers down there in the Canberra Press Gallery, hobnobbing with the political 'stars' on a daily basis and getting their little tidbits of political gossip fed to them. Big deal! Sometimes it's better to be 'Unhinged' from all that, you see the political world much clearer I reckon. :)

Ad astra reply

19/03/2011H/FS Thank you for taking the trouble to research and document so convincingly the case that the Liberal Party is guilty of 'race baiting' or whatever euphemistic alternative one might select. We know that what you say is so; you have given us the evidence. Whatever term is used, this practice is socially harmful, setting as it does one part of society at daggers drawn with other parts. Over the long span of history we have seen the evil of racial hatred and the devastation it has wrought on the nations, people and groups under attack. Why then do latter day politicians indulge in it? Is it that they hold to their beliefs so strongly that they are convinced all others are wrong and need bringing into line, as religious zealots have done for centuries and still do? Or is the reason more cynical - the belief that if they can tap into a sentiment running in the community, or parts of it, there is political advantage to be gained - specifically more votes. I fear it is too often the latter, at least among politicians. That they are willing to sacrifice community harmony to gain politically is the most heinous crime of all. I wonder do try ever reflect on this?

nasking

19/03/2011Useful & interesting post HS. It's certainly a complex issue. Considering Australia has a relatively small Muslim population & the amount of asylum seekers that arrive here are laughably minute numbers compared to certain European states...and places like Pakistan...you can't help but think this is lazy politics on the part of some in the Coalition...and by politically aligned types like Bolt & Jones...reaching back into the sewer lessons drawn from the White Australia Policy combined w/ McCarthy era 'Reds under the Bed' stuff...and I'm sure Australia has enuff of its own foul characters who enjoyed stirring the xenephobe pot thruout our short history that they also provide approaches that this scum pond lot can draw upon. For years there's been the "Indonesia might invade oneday" fearmongering goss that's made it the rounds at just about every intense BBQ conversation & schoolyard...so the seeds already existed related to the Muslim fear campaign (tho I'm not sure how many Aussies back in the pre-internet, 9/11 days were aware of how many Muslims lived in Indonesia)... consequently, it wasn't difficult for Murdoch & Howard's lot to use the Tampa, 9/11, Bali incidents to build on the unsettled feeling many already had of any fundy religion & sense of impending invasion (partially based on guilt feeling that many here are invaders themselves...reminded of such each time Aboriginal individuals, cultures are mentioned..."what goes around comes around" so to speak...add knowledge of diminishing power of UK & other European states once empires...and changes in colonies like Sth Africa, Zimbabwe)... Of course cable television competing w/ free to air had a vested interest in building up the tensions and conflict...and American, Brit, Italian & Australian etc. extreme nationalism...and they had to create a common enemy...conveniently one that had links to the Crusades...nothing like stirring up the flag waving baased on an enemy from the days of yore. Easy way to unify people. Particularly if you direct funding away from security areas and create confusion...and put in place negligent practices...look the other way...ensure key, useful info is blocked...whilst letting allies & even previous enemies fund terrorists who get a free ride as they go about creating an explosive atmosphere that is beneficial to large shareholders of various armament, resource, catering, construction, media and so on groups. Think 9/11. In the long run this is about competing interests who sometimes make reluctant alliances to prosper from disaster. It's not to say that there aren't certain "truisms" involved in their scare-mongering...and even some sensible goals...but as corporates and dynasties and vested interests collide as usual we get mutations and chaos. Which is probably some of the reasons why Obama has been hesitant in regard to the Libyan conflict. Too many variables to be able to predict a certain outcome. Too many agents involved from various countries & corporations & NGOs & religious figures. And Israel, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria & Iran are the real wild cards considering the eruptions and tremors that lie beneath...and of course China & Russia as they groan under resource, climate change, housing affordability, underground crime, corruption, itchy military apparatuses & population problems as rampant capitalist states run by real democracy smotherers. Add the Americas. And Africa. Anyway, getting back to the lazy politicians & media usual suspects...they are terrified to think outside of the box because much of what they say or write is determined by narrow ideological views that have been infected & distorted by their underlying xenophobia, guilt, sense of inadequacy and need to to be "right"...and their lust for power...need for financial security to protect them from the critics and other boogeymen/women...and their religious upbringing that rings in their minds like bells clanging in the upcoming apocalypse and the second coming. These are pretty screwed up individuals who are far too irrational for the good of our world, future generations and the other species that exist on this planet. Add the pressures on them related to media moguls & big miners etc...and you can see why they feel the need to resort to old fashioned, nostalgic views as they pretend to be stoic & unflinching...whilst in fact there brains are filled w/ conflicting emotions...and doubt...which is then cast aside by fingerpointing tactics...bellowing assertively...grandiosely interrupting others and making proclamations and predictions...and holding on to the most narrowest of views as tho they were lifeboats. The world is far too complex for such confused "black & white" message, fearmongering people to be allowed to have such influence... but unfortunately people are easily conned & brainwashed by large media operatives driven by corporate/dynastic interests...and as the average person seeks existential answers...whilst attempting to survive comfortably...and protect others to the best of their abilities provided they don't have to undermine too much self-gratification...and has to deal w/ the guilt of existance, their own traumas & fears...and needs & desires, oft out of reach compared to those the privileged FEW have...but often working via business, public service & in their own mind even during leisure time in order to find ways to fulfil those needs and desires...it's not surprising that they get frustrated at times and look to easy, quick answers/responses... and fall into the complacency of being armchair imperialists observing other people's pain, suffering, conflicts...in order to feel both at a distance from other's experiences...whilst observing for macabre entertainment reasons, for practical knowledge acquisition reasons, and vague sense of action & justice being done...add "rather them than me" bit, allowing them to ignore realities of exploitation, their own insecurities & vulnerabilities & guilt re: animal suffering & environmental destruction etc...and to go on w/ their troublesome lives w/ half a smile. Enter lazy reporting. Like the suit that just fits, colourless, unimaginative, made by exploiting others in dens of yuck!...but it will do...because thinking too deeply, too widely...hurts. Bolt & Akerman & Abbott & Fox News...and the other usual suspects are just boring, predictable, basic suits...bland...that become more ill-fitting by the day as the people become empowered. They try to use sex & money markets to sparkle, SHINE things up...but it eventually comes across like a compulsive masturbation...too many in a day. Lazy people...whose place in history will bring a sour taste & black hole gut feeling to many...but some will pull on their slime the way they have the scumbags that came before them...before they were moved aside...or forgotten by many as we progressed. N'

Feral Skeleton

19/03/2011I also am disgusted by this equivocation and revisionism and rewriting of the facts to create a new narrative that political journalists such as Hartcher indulge in. The facts ARE that, in the coalition of government that Julia Gillard created after 17 days of tough negotiation, she has been able to carve out a 72-0 political scoreline against Mr Abbott and his Coalition of political bomb-throwers. That means something, even if Hartcher dismisses it as a mere bagatelle. I'd like to see him have so much success put into the same situation, or Tony Abbott for that matter. Just imagine, with the set-jawed character that Abbott has, how much compromise he would have been able to eke out from exactly the same situation that JG now has to deal with on a daily basis. 50-50 would have been a massive success rate for him. Also, all he would have used the resulting parliament for would have been to destabilise the fragile coalition of Independants+the Coalition, advance his own cause pretty much as he has been doing since the election, and engineer a return to the polls so that he may take over government completely. The upshot of which is that no action would be taken on the things which need to be done but that he and his backers in the Mining Industry do not want the government to do. Whatever style of governing you would call it it certainly cannot be characterised as leadership. Julia Gillard has leadership qualities oozing out of every pore, even if you don't like the earlobe ones, and Peter Hartcher should just take a moment to reflect on a few truths and recant what he has written today. We are getting the NBN despite a concerted campaign against it. We have got more school construction in the last 3 years than in the last 30. We have a fairer Industrial Relations system that most seem to be happy with. We have a resolution to the almost total collapse of our Child Care sector(remember that?). We are finally on the road to a transformative future less reliant on Climate Change causing CO2 emissions from industry. If that's the outcomes of a political party in government that is dead, then bring on the 'Twilight' era of government, because Julia Gillard is rocking her inner Vampirella and actually sucking the lifeblood out of Tony Abbott and the Coalition, if only Peter Hartcher would get his head out of his pompous backside full of hot air and see it.

nasking

19/03/2011Thought ya might find this interesting Feral, [quote]The benchmark catastrophe amid peacetime nuclear disasters remains the explosion in the fourth reactor at the Chernobyl nuclear power station on April 26, 1986, in the Ukraine. Denial that Chernobyl actually killed and is killing hundreds of thousands of people is crucial to the efforts of the nuclear lobby. Earlier this week Fergus Walsh, the BBC’s medical correspondent, comforted his audience with the amazing nonsense that by 2006 , Chernobyl had prompted only sixty deaths from cancer! I’ve read the same drivel many times over the last few days. They get their buttress from a shameful report overseen by the UN’s nuclear lobby, published in 2005-6. In 2009 the New York Academy of Sciences published Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment, a 327-page volume by three scientists, Alexey Yablokov and Vassily and Alexey Nesterenko, the definitive study to date, a lot of of it citations from scientific papers with detailed health statistics. In the summary of his chapter “Mortality After the Chernobyl Catastrophe,” Yablokov says flatly, “A detailed study reveals that 3.8–4.0% of all deaths in the contaminated territories of Ukraine and Russia from 1990 to 2004 were caused by the Chernobyl catastrophe.… Since 1990, mortality among the clean-up teams has exceeded the mortality rate in corresponding population groups. From 112,000 to 125,000 liquidators [ ie members of clean up crews] died before 2005—that is, some 15% of the 830,000 members of the Chernobyl cleanup teams. The calculations suggest that the Chernobyl catastrophe has already killed several hundred thousand human beings in a population of several hundred million that was unfortunate enough to live in territories affected by the fallout.” Set Fukushima next to Chernobyl and its ongoing lethal aftermath. Think of southern California or North Carolina. Nuclear expert Robert Alvarez, who advised President Clinton on nuclear matters, writes this week that a single spent fuel rod pool—as in Fukushima or Shearon Harris—holds more cesium-137 than was deposited by all atmospheric nuclear weapons tests in the Northern Hemisphere combined, and an explosion in that pool could blast “perhaps three to nine times as much of these materials into the air as was released by the Chernobyl reactor[/quote] more here...must read: In the Midst of Fukushima: Ahoy There, Nuke-Loving Greens, Welcome to the Real World! By ALEXANDER COCKBURN http://www.counterpunch.com/ Cheers N'

D Mick Weir

19/03/2011And on a completly different note: [b]Carbon tax, your questions answered - Shane Wright[/b], economics editor of The West Australian courtesy of Peter Martin http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/03/carbon-tax-your-questions-answered.html A good read. Simple and informative. and in Captcha bingo 'astratu moving,' (opinion maybe?)

D Mick Weir

19/03/2011FS, Peter Hartcher wrote [i]'The theatrical bluster conceals that hard fact that 72 bills have been voted through the House of Representatives since the election. How many has Abbott successfully opposed? Zero.'[/i] You then comment [i]' ... 72-0 political scoreline against Mr Abbott ... even if Hartcher dismisses it as a mere bagatelle'[/i] I can't work out why you say Hartcher is dismissive on that score.

Michael

19/03/2011Regarding Hartcher's article, he seems to be locked into the idea of things never changing. The old Labor party IS dying. It's also being reinvigorated every day. Because it is, to use the maligned phrase, 'moving forward'. Labor in government is adapting to the daily changes of being in government in a manner neither of the two major parties has had to be in Federal government for a very long time - in an arrangement, a loose and unbinding coalition, demanded by the outcome of votes at the ballot box. Not a 'Coalition' shaped by the pursuit of (the right to) power. Hartcher fails to recognise that Labor under Julia Gillard is, as much as a boneheaded Opposition, and an equally self-aggrandising main stream media try to disguise the facts, quite nimbly achieving the legislative success that grounds effective governance. The sort of governance that builds strongly towards those who can deliver it being seen as worthy of holding the reins of government. The Coalition parties are manifestly NOT intending to change an iota of themselves from the Howard-era model. They want to get back to where they believe they rightly were and should always be - sitting triumphant and smug on the Treasury benches with not an idea amongst them except "we know best". Labor is reinventing itself because every political party, every organisation, needs to be doing this as a matter of course. It's called growth, it's called maturing. The phrase that comes to mind is "adapt or die". Come the next election, for all that the Coalition will undoubtedly trot out their "same old Labor" mantra, it will be a tested and re-shaped Labor that takes on a Coalition locked in the same concretised thinking that seems to have beset Peter Hartcher. Perhaps we'd have better political commentary if such commentators weren't required to write regular columns - if they were primarily paid as journalists following day-to-day stories, and commissioned as essayists only when events called upon their publications' editors to deliver well-considered longer-form pieces. With suitable time allowed to focus on the "well-considered". As it is, the deadlines deliver dross from men and women whose thinking seems treadmill-tasked to uncertainty or outright contradiction of their own previously trumpeted opinions. Routine rapidity delivers vacuous vapidity.

Feral Skeleton

19/03/2011Nasking, Tieing together both of your lovely posts, it could be said that the good doctor, who was attempting to publically minimise and distort the reality of the Chernobyl reactor accident aftermath, and thus place a false perception of the probable aftermath of Fukushima in people's minds, was merely seeking to create that parallel universe that he wishes to continue to inhabit well away from the ugly reality of the truth and consequences of Chernobyl and Fukushima. So as to be able to go home again to his comfortable cocoon in the Upper Middle Class suburbs of Greater London where he can walk in the door of his stately home, complete with all the gewgaws that signify a comfortable life, and know that his words have hopefully prevented the sort of popular uprising that would come from 'the mob' waking up to the fact that they are being had and that people like him no longer respect the tenets of the Hippocratic Oath and do not seek to uphold it with their words, instead they have become the real-life manifestation of the Hippocritic Oath, wherein doctors seek to protect their lifestyle, rather than their patients' well-being. Sigh. You've really got to dig into the back story of these spokespersons these days and get that sorted before you believe what they say. It's no good taking at face value their opinion, so many are tainted by their paymasters these days it's not funny. Which is why I keep doing what I am doing, bringing up their rears with the dustpan and broom and analysing the scats. :)

Feral Skeleton

19/03/2011DMW, The point I was trying to make was that Hartcher was using the 72-0 scoreline more as a tool to have a go at Tony Abbott than a means by which he was congratulating Julia Gillard on a job well done.

D Mick Weir

19/03/2011FS OK cool, maybe then [i]'That means something, even if Hartcher '[/i] (uses it to flippantly have a go at Abbott)

Feral Skeleton

19/03/2011Michael, My thoughts exactly. I was just saying to someone the other day about the upcoming NSW State election result, which is pretty much a foregone conclusion, that there would be at least 2 good outcomes to happen to Labor as a result of it. Firstly, a lot of the rot will be excised from the NSW State ranks. Not as much as should have been cut out, as Eddie Obeid and Eric Roozendaal are still to remain in the Upper House after the election, but generally there should be a positive outcome in the Lower House. Thus hopefully a generational change will be brought to bear on the Labor Party and that morphing change you refer to positively will result in a new outlook that the electors will warm to in time. Which brings me to my second point, and that is that Barry O'Farrell and his motley crew can no longer get Brownie Points carping cynically from the sidelines, they are now going to have to govern the largest State in the Commonwealth of Australia. Let's see how easy it is to get things done then, BOFfa!

Feral Skeleton

19/03/2011Talk Turkey, You'll like this one: LNP=Luddite National Party :)

Ad astra reply

19/03/2011Hi Lyn, FS, D Mick Weir, michael Thank you Lyn for the link to the Peter Hartcher article and all of you for the comments on it, which I found informative reading. The question that exercises my mind is: 'Why did he write it?' Was he trying to be prophetic? He'll have to wait a couple of years to find out, and a lot will happen over this time. He has written off Labor and Julia Gillard, talking of their looming death. Yet in his latter paragraphs he points out that she and Labor are getting all of their legislation through, berates Tony Abbott and the Coalition, insists his one-trick oppositionism will be terminally exposed as a failure, but then concludes, Nostradamus-style "…even if she can win passage of a carbon tax through the Parliament, it will not be enough to save her, and Labor, from oblivion." Such nihilism begs the question: Who will govern Australia if Labor is heading for oblivion and Abbott's approach is in terminal failure? Are we heading for an ungoverned nation where no political party is up to it? I find Hartcher's pièce puzzling, bereft of clear thinking, without an answer to what happens next, and generally purposeless, except for throwing mud at all and sundry and predicting the end of politics as we know it. Why his editor thought it worth publishing remains a mystery - except perhaps for its shock value.

D Mick Weir

19/03/2011Fair call AA, who will govern Australia? Maybe this article (from left? field) may help!!! [b]Random selection could 'improve democracy'- Anna Salleh[/b] for ABC Science Online http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/18/3167785.htm?section=justin [i]'Democracy can be better served by randomly selecting representatives, argue Italian researchers. ... Their model relied on four categories of people in the parliament. These were: 'intelligent' people (actions serve both personal and social interests), 'helpless or naive' (loss for self, but gain for others), 'bandits' (benefit themselves, but not others), and 'stupid' (actions produce a loss for everyone).'[/i] Food for thought in the post (and some of the comments) Joe Bloggs said [i]'Anybody who wants to be a politician should be banned for life from ever being one.'[/i] I sort of understand the thinking as some do seem to have ambitions way beyond tier ability

Ad astra reply

19/03/2011Folks I agree with D Mick Weir that [i]Carbon tax, your questions answered[/i] by Shane Wright on Peter Martin's blog site is well worth reading - it's as good an account as I have read of this subject: http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/03/carbon-tax-your-questions-answered.html

Ad astra reply

19/03/2011D Mick Weir If one can judge from the strong and sensible role that independents like Tony Windsor are playing, and one could consider them 'randomly selected' for parliament, the idea of a number of randomly selected individuals in parliament has appeal.

Lyn

19/03/2011Hi Ad I say this every Saturday, is it Sunday tomorrow, again: Sunday morning TV - 20 March #auspol Posted by sundaymorningtv to sundaymorningtv's posterous Your guide to this Sunday morning's political and business interviews Full program listing available at: http://sundaymorningtv.posterous.com/ 8.00am Ch10 - Meet the Press Hugh Riminton is joined on the Panel by Stefanie Balogh of The Australian, and Peter Hartcher of The Sydney Morning Herald. Together they interview Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd, followed by Dave Oliver, National Secretary of the Australian Manufacturing Workers' Union. 8:30am Sky News 601 - Australian Agenda On Sky News Australian Agenda this week host Peter Van Onselen interviews Prime Minister Julia Gillard, and a panel chat with The Daily Telegraph's Simon Benson, and The Australian's Tom Dusevic. 8:38am Ch7 - Weekend Sunrise - The Riley Diary Political editor Mark Riley takes a look at the past week in federal politics. 8:40am Ch9 - Today on Sunday - Laurie Oakes interview This week Laurie Oakes interviews the Opposition Foreign Affairs spokesperson Julie Bishop. 9:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 - Insiders On Insiders this Sunday, Barrie Cassidy interviews the Trade Minister Craig Emerson. On the panel: SBS’s Karen Middleton, the Sydney Morning Herald’s Phil Coorey and the [b]Daily Telegraph’s Piers Akerman.[/b]And Mike Bowers talks pictures with the Chaser’s Craig Reucassel. 10:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 @ 5.30pm - Inside Business This week on Inside Business an interview with the CEO of Australia’s largest independent uranium producer, Paladin Energy's John Borshoff. And a look detailed look at the economic impact of the disaster in Japan Also, they check out what the latest developments in the Middle East mean for oil.

Catching up

19/03/2011A some comments I have attempted to put on Mr. Bolt's site, I do not expect them to appear. I would like to point out an observation I have made concerning so called right wing sites, they make many allegations but never, never give data or links to prove what they are asserting. This is a different matter on so called left wing sites, there are always links and data given. There is also, thank god, much less name calling and playing the man, not the ball. …...................................................................................... “The answer is yes it will cost more. Nothing hidden about this. What is also true, owing to compensation being paid to middle and lower income earners, you will have more in your pocket to pay for the can of coke. This also has been made very clear. Be aware of those who are creating alarm by cherry picking and taking out of context what has and will be announce. My suggestion, if you really want to be informed go past the headlines before making a decision. The Opposition is trying to convince the public that a simple quoting of price rises five the whole picture, this is not true, those relying on half truths will always come up with the wrong answers. Please tell me how there can be a double dissolution without any grounds at this time. I also suspect, at this time it is only the Lower House that can be forced back to the polls The GG would have to call on the Opposition to form a government, before she could call an election. Nothing much would change for the Opposition, as they will not have control of the Upper House. It is time for Mr. Abbott, the Opposition Leader when promoting a new election to explain to the people what the reality of this call would be. It is time Mr. Abbott, the Opposition Leader explained what the Constitutional realities are. It would lead to a messy politics for sometime. I ask does the country need this.” “Mr. Bolt me thinks you spend too much time on wishful thinking and to survive, you have to keep your head in the sand. Yes, old Labor is dead, you and many others fail to see this. Today's Labor is not the Labor of the 50-60's. I say this because Labor is a party with the ability to change to meet modern days needs. Labor in the party that is focus on today and tomorrow, not like the Opposition which is still fixed in the past and in their own tiny world. When you have to resort to straight -out lies as you did with the Get Up story, you are very much in trouble. If your readers do not believe me, I suggest they visit the site and make-up their own minds. I suggest Mr. Bolt, you give the link to the Get Up site to prove your credibility, not just make outrageous allegations.”

Ad astra reply

19/03/2011Folks I was very impressed by Tony Windsor's statements on AM this morning, and have sent this email to him today: "[i]Dear Mr Windsor I have written to you previously commending your contribution to the debate of important issues in parliament. On AM this morning, I was encouraged by your comment: "I think these sorts of things are well worth examining. I think people are tending to look at the climate change debate in a fairly narrow sense, in Tony Abbott's case, it's very narrow, it's all based on one word. But it is a broader debate than that and it is a reform to our economy as well as a recognition of an environmental consequence of human activity. So I don't have a problem with people raising the issues, whether it be in tax reform, the welfare reform, drought policy in terms of land use and landscape management. So there's a whole range of potential of policy mixes that could be built into it in response to climate change and not the least of which is renewable energy policy and renewable fuels, the way in which we tax some of the energy sources that we currently have now. So maybe it could be an opportunity to look at the Henry review again and look at some of the rather stupid taxes we have, and wrap them all up into one bundle and achieve a good outcome in a range of areas, not just environmentally." From that statement, it seemed to me that you have an awareness of the extraordinary complexity of the climate change debate and the responses that might be made to it. Whether or not your understanding comes under the criteria that define systems theory, you seem to be operating in a systems theory model. As a medical educator in family medicine, I was at pains to persuade learners that while the reductionist approach that still holds sway in medicine whereby a single cause for conditions and a 'magic bullet' solution is often sought, many of the answers to health problems are to found 'out there' where health issues interact with family, work, environmental and even political dimensions. Likewise, in the matter of climate change we are highly unlikely to find just one cause or one solution - the enormous complexity of the situation precludes this. So it was encouraging for me to hear you say what to me sounded like recognition of this. I hope in time that your appraisal of all the interacting variables will lead you to the conclusion that not only is action needed to address climate change, but that action will likely include a number of initiatives, such as a price on carbon (or a carbon tax as some would have it) leading to an ETS that penalises polluters and encourages them to pollute less, and other initiatives such as alternative energy sources, renewable fuels, carbon capture and storage, storage of carbon in agricultural pursuits and so on. It is this combination that is likely to be an 'answer', not the simplistic one-liners we hear from the Opposition. Apologies for the length of this letter; I felt after hearing you this morning, that if you could persuade others to this approach, the debate on climate change could be elevated to a more productive and less political level, where it ought to be, for all our sakes. Yours sincerely"[/i] The transcript of his interview by Sabra Lane is here: http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2011/s3168306.htm

Ad astra reply

19/03/2011Caching up Please do let us know if your very cogent comments appear on Bolt's site. It would be a miracle if they did.

Ad astra reply

19/03/2011Hi Lyn Thanks for your list of events tomorrow morning. It looks as if we have to put up with Piers Akerman on [i]Insiders[/i]. Why can't we have a spell from these extreme ideologues and their venomous outpourings? It will be interesting to see how Barrie Cassidy handles him.

Ad astra reply

19/03/2011Folks We're out for the evening. Back tomorrow.

Lyn

19/03/2011Hi Ad It's a pleasure Ad, but you know it just makes one sigh doesn't it,at least Karen Middleton is not too bad. Barrie Cassidy said to himself, "well they all complained last week, about Bolt, so I will give them a dose of Piers, see how they like that." Have a happy night Ad

Patricia WA

19/03/2011Michael! Congratulations on that lovely sentence about hack journos. [b]Routine rapidity delivers vacuous vapidity![/b] As well as the rest of your comment, of course. One senses too that somehow our PM has convinced her team that whatever the outcome of the next election they will achieve as much of their program as is humanly possible while they can. For all the media rumors of rats in the ranks complaining about compromises there seems little real evidence of that. If Hartcher et al were correct in all their dire predictions, there would be plenty of ALP rodents trying to jump ship.

Patricia WA

19/03/2011lyn - I couldn't find the Possum reference to the Port Macquarie carbon tax protest, but I'm taking your word for it and now will have to update my [b]Revolting People[/b] pome at <a href=http://polliepomes.wordpress.com/> polliepomes</a> with something like this Bolt couldn't go to Port Macquarie So that explains why only eight Brave souls showed up. But don't worry Next time Tony'll come. Watch for the date!

Lyn

19/03/2011Hi Patricia I am just on my way out for dinner, but when I come back I will get you a link. It's on twitter. Would that be ok. Cheers

Patricia WA

19/03/2011Ad Astra, for some reason the embedded link formula which works elesewhere didn't this time at TPS. As a novice at this I'm on a learning curve. I've found that simply Googling 'polliepomes' does work though. I had a couple of frustrating days recently before I discovered that not all search engines like Alta Vista and Yahoo yield the same results as Google. Does anyone have the time or inclination to explain why that is so to me in words of one or two syllables?

Feral Skeleton

19/03/2011I'm tempted to give 'Insiders' a miss again tomorrow when I see who is going to be on the couch. Contrary to your opinion of Karen Middleton, PWA, I've always found her to be a little viper when it comes to her nightly reports on politics on the SBS News. However, sometimes she puts it aside and is reasonable. I hope tomorrow is one of those situations, but with Piers Akerman on the couch I think she will follow on in the wake of PA's bumptious behaviour. No doubt PA will be emboldened by how easy it was for ABolt to commandeer Insiders and cow Barrie Cassidy into submission and will probably be hoping for similar 'success' himself. Phillip Coorey will try to be the voice of reason, if he can get a word in edgeways. What will be the most interesting facet of tomorrow's show will be any sort of comment Barrie Cassidy makes about last week's show, and whether he shows any contrition for letting it become a melee at the hands of ABolt. I'm not sure whether the political couch potatoes are chosen well in advance, or if it is a week to week affair, but you would have thought that unless it is a situation of contractually being obliged to honour the commitment to have Piers Akerman on tomorrow, then it would have been better if he could have not been allowed on. Or, Barrie Cassidy may have approved of PA's presence as one in the eye to those of us who complained about his show last week. I hope not. As that would show a level of arrogance that was unhealthy. What I will say though, is that I can't wait to see Peter Hartcher confronted by Kevin Rudd tomorrow in Meet the Press. I can guarantee you that Kevin has read the article PH wrote for today's papers and he would not have been amused by it. Not to put too fine a point on it, but if PH tries to press home his point to KR about the state of the government, well, the mood Kevin has been in lately I think there might be fireworks!

Acerbic Conehead 2

19/03/2011Well said, HS, those Saltshakers need to be a bit more Christian and follow Kev’s advice to give everyone a fair shake of the saucebottle. Sing along with Kev as he leads the choir with a hymn based on the great hit from The Jam, “A Town Called Malice”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOGBTFFxOpY&feature=related :- ( Better stop pushin’ all this race-baitin’ ‘Tis very unAustralian And quit rabbotting on ‘bout the boats When more come on the planes And start apologising for the things you've said an’ done, Ditch your false religion, cos its time to marginalise The clowns fulla malice :- ( Rows and rows of devout Christians Fervently prayin’ in their pews Call on Jesus an’ his Mother To rationalise their “Christian” views Forgettin’ that in Egypt, Jesus got a haven It's enough to make you stop believing When cant comes fast and furious From clowns fulla malice. :- ( Vanity after vanity, sneer after sneer The atmosphere's as cold as ice Hearts almost stone cold dead In clowns fulla malice :- ( Their whole strange belief, in givin’ others grief Is so close to heresy Its as if the Good Sam, ignored the poor man It's a big decision for the clowns fulla malice :- ( The ghost of Christmas Past, was totally aghast At Scrooge’s lack of Yuletide cheer Now Bernardi’s playin’ the role Of the “Christian” without a soul Obsessed by STOP THE BOATS Sellin’ his soul for a coupla mangy votes Redemption’s a long way off For clowns fulla malice

TalkTurkey

19/03/2011Ad astrafix said: "It looks as if we have to put up with Piers Akerman on Insiders. Why can't we have a spell from these extreme ideologues and their venomous outpourings?" A spell such as you describe would be just what we need . . . But you're the magician, Ad! Hippy bathday btw whenever this month it's due. And so say All of Us. Thinkin' beyond the square now! As concerns the Hon. Tony Windsor MHR (Ind.) and his fellow ex-Nat Independent the Hon.Robert Oakeshott MHR, I think they are all the good words, courageous, intelligent, responsible, wise, shrewd (is GOOD!), and we are all deeply in their debt, and glad to be so. Not to forget the other Govt-voting Indie the Hon Andrew Wilkie MHR and the Hon Adam Bandt of the Greens, Australia needs you all, but to the first two I especially dips me lid because they have had so painfully to shed a skin in their political career. Wilkie has suffered too. Thank Dog for you good men. [Not that I think you could ever have looked at yourselves in a mirror had you made the horrid alternative choice.] Your names will be writ large in Australian history.

Feral Skeleton

19/03/2011Speaking of Rob Oakeshott, he has a protege, Rob Besserling, running for RO's old State seat of Port Macquarie in the upcoming State election. Well, I don't know if you heard, but the Coalition have got everyone in the electorate up there so riled up that one of the rabid followers of the Nats, it seems, loosened the sump plug on Besserling's campaign bus and it dropped out on the road, and when the bus came to a sudden halt it caused a 3 car accident! Tony Abbott et al are playing with fire. Something wicked this way comes if they keep it up, that tip I can give you for free.

Lyn

19/03/2011Hi Patricia The link will take you to the twitter page, just scoll down, when you scroll down click more and you will see the entry on the second page: Below is copied and pasted: Pollytics [quote]Apparently there was 8 people at the anti-carbon tax rally in Port Macquarie. about 22 hours ago via TweetDeck [/quote] http://twitter.com/Pollytics

Patricia WA

19/03/2011Thanks, Lyn! AC, don't know the song, but your lines evoked for me that image of the Christ child in the manger and the Virgin Mary and Joseph, both robed as people of the Arab world were and often still are. It amazes me that there is so much ignorance amongst Christians and people in the west generally about where their 'Judeo-Christian' culture originated.

TalkTurkey

20/03/2011Tune: Men of Harlech Abbortt's people are revolting! Mad and bad and so insulting! This revolt will take some halting: Swordsfolk! To your post! You our Bloggers far out-braining Abbortt’s henchmen wisdom feigning, Use your brains and blogsite training! Bloggers, here’s a toast! - Friends, both far and near! Here’s to Boadicea! Julia Gillard our PM Is socking it to THEM And shrivelling their scrotal sacs with fear! Julia, Gaelic Lass of Harlech ! ’Xterminate those Aliens like a DaDaDaDaDalek! Exorcise their rotten lying souls with G-G-Garlic - Go it, Julia G! We’ll dance on fading memories of Joneses and Tonys Abbotts and Archbishops and their rotten lying cronies! Julia Gillard is our Champion where they’re just hollow phoneys – Julia, ’tis for Thee! (slow and straight) We The SwordsFolks tell you truly We are right behind you, PM Juli- Ahhh Gillard, you’ll win through surelyyyyy! – Go it, Julia G! I guess this is a bit presumptuous. We the Swordsfolks might not ALL be right behind JG. Ho hum.

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Talk Turkey, You're just trying to write a Beer drinking song you can take to the pubs of Adelaide with young Jason in tow and taunt the Young Libs with, huh? I like it a lot! :)

Ad astra reply

20/03/2011Folks Thank you for your overnight comments, your clever and pointed verse AC, and your stirring Men of Harlech words, TT.  You have a good memory TT, it was my birthday yesterday and I celebrated it in the evening after lots of calls from the kids during the day. Now for the next year!

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Let me just say that I am normally a pacifist and marched against the Iraq War because I thought it was the wrong way to get rid of the dictator Saddam Hussein(he was on his last legs & a more strategic nudge could have toppled him I thought)...but I am overcome with joy today that Britain, France and the US have launched their attack on Moammar Ghaddaffi and his broadly-grinning, mass-murdering creep and friend of Mark Vaile, son, Saif Al-Islam Ghaddaffi. GO THE GOOD GUYS! The Ghaddaffis should have got out while the going was good.

Lyn

20/03/2011[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]Sorry for what?, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless[/i] Annabel Crabb was a journalist with The Sydney Morning Herald she has a loyal following of readers who are every bit as silly as she is. http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/ [i]Hey, maybe Rudd was pushing for action on Libya *because it was the right thing to do*, Jeremy Sear, An Onymous lefty[/i] I tweeted during Sunday’s Insiders, as they went back and forth on Libya as nothing more than a supposed dispute between Rudd and Gillard: http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/ [i]Aware of all internet traditions, John Quiggin, Crooked Timber[/i] Cardinal Archbishop George Pell (unofficial spiritual adviser to opposition leader Tony Abbott) is, unsurprisingly in the Oz context, a climate delusionist. http://crookedtimber.org/2011/03/19/aware-of-all-internet-traditions/ [i]Nuclear madness in Idaho, Don Arthuf, Club Troppo[/i] Today some residents of Idaho are so worried about the nuclear accident 8000 kilometers away that they’re buying potassium iodide pills. http://clubtroppo.com.au/2011/03/19/nuclear-madness-in-idaho/#more-15104 [i]Mediaeval mindset, minus the screws , Mike Carlton, National Times[/i] Cardinal George Pell's latest rant against the science of climate change suggests that four more centuries have not shone much new light in the intellectual backwaters of the church http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/politics/mediaeval-mindset-minus-the-screws-20110318-1c09s.html [i]Carbon tax, your questions answered, Peter Martin[/i] My colleague Shane Wright, economics editor of The West Australian: http://www.petermartin.com.au/ [i]troubled times in the US, Gary Sauer-Thompson , Public Opinion[/i] The Republicans figure this tactic the one sure way to unseat Obama. They know that when the economy is heading downward, voters fire the president. http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2011/03/troubled-times.php#more [i]What would they have said about Ike? Richard Farmer, The Stump[/i] There’s a new line of attack on Barack Obama. Fox News has decided he should not be playing golf and http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/ [i]NSW election minus 7 days, William Bowe, The Poll Bludger[/i]Local level intelligence from around the place http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/ [i]Telstra deal may delay NBN second release,Reanai LeMay, Delimeter[/i] the Telstra delay “above could affect the time between construction and the availability of services, depending on a number of issues http://delimiter.com.au/2011/03/18/telstra-deal-may-delay-nbn-second-release/#more-13703 [i]Regrets? Maybe just a few ,Liz Hannan. ,SMH[/i] [b]Alan Jones Lunch Date[/b]On a crowded CV, one absence is notable: politician. He made five unsuccessful bids for preselection and would have liked to have been a minister and, yes, prime minister. http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/people/regrets-maybe-just-a-few-20110318-1c0kl.html [b]FOR INTERESTS SAKE, I really hope these rallies flop:[/b] [i]Australian Anti-Carbon Tax Protests , JoNova No Carbon Tax Rally[/i] http://www.nocarbontaxrally.com/no_carbon_tax_rally.html http://www.stopgillardscarbontax.com/rally-list.html [b]The big protests around the country start on Wednesday next week.[/b] The Stop Gillard's Carbon Tax Coalition is proud to support rallies against this destructive new tax accross Australia! CANBERRA PERTH ADELAIDE MELBOURNE SYDNEY BRISBANE http://joannenova.com.au/2011/03/australian-anti-carbon-tax-protests/

Lyn

20/03/2011Goog Morning Ad A very Happy Birthday from me too. Did you have a lovely time with all your family around you, that's what I love about birthday's, the attention and the presents, great fun.

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011HAPPY BIRTHDAY! for yesterday Ad Astra. :) Let's hope that you continue going from strength to strength again this year. Last year was a cracker, as The Political Sword cemented its place in the pantheon of political blogs in Australia, and as we found out about the other strings to your bow. What am amazing individual you are, and it's a pleasure and an honour to know you.

Mobius Ecko

20/03/2011[i]"Which brings me to my second point, and that is that Barry O'Farrell and his motley crew can no longer get Brownie Points carping cynically from the sidelines, they are now going to have to govern the largest State in the Commonwealth of Australia. Let's see how easy it is to get things done then, BOFfa!"[/i] FS Barry O'Farrell is unique in Liberal State leaders in that he is breaking promises before he's been sworn in as Premier whilst his counterparts in Vic and WA waited until after they were elected. O'Farrell after negatively carping from the sidelines for a few years now, something he promised he would not do when he got the leadership, is now backing down on things he said he would urgently fix and is directly breaking several promised commitments made from opposition. He's gotten around some by saying he will refer them to committees and do whatever the outcome of that process is. Yet before this election and whilst criticising the NSW government he was adamant that he would be immediately acting on these commitments. He's also started to roll out excuses for not being able to do as much he has intimated he would if he gained government, and of course the excuses all involve blaming Labor, something else he stated in the past he wouldn't do. If NSW thinks that a Liberal government will make a significant difference to the State they are in for a disappointment. If they believe that having a Liberal government will alleviate the scandals, corruption and gross incompetence that too often splatter the headlines, they will probably not be disappointed, but not because these things won't happen under a Liberal government but because they won't be reported on as vehemently or as often on front pages and headlines.

Ad astra reply

20/03/2011Hi Lyn and FS Thank you so much for your birthday greetings and FS for your generous remarks about me and [i]TPS[/i]. You have been a major contributor to the success of [i]TPS[/i] for which we all thank you from our hearts. Your contribution, Lyn's links, and the high quality comments, satire and verse make [i]TPS[/i] what it is. Thank you all.

TalkTurkey

20/03/2011Prime Minister Gillard, I want to put it to you that you told NO LIE at all. What you did was to MAKE A PROMISE THAT YOU FAILED TO KEEP. You failed to keep it because of UNPRECEDENTED AND UNFORESEEABLE CHANGED CIRCUMSTANCES. Is there anyone in the world who has not been guilty of the same thing? [Toe-Rag Abbortt and Archbigot Pell] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OOOH Archbigot Pell is GOOD! Just thought of it. Think I'll patent him! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Watching Onesiders: Julia Gillard did NOT say 'Haitch Ee Ell Pee' as Mike Bowers on Talking misrepresented her pronunciation in his parrotty parody on the Cartoons. She said AITCH Ee Ell Pee! She went to Adelaide schools where we teach people English. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GO KAREN MIDDLETON! She's a good 'un really. To Pus Acridman she said wtte (re climate change): "Wouldn't you rather err on the side of caution? . . . ? . . . No you wouldn't ? !" to which Pus said wtte "Er err? Er would I rather err er ah uhr err er uh err . . . " Pus is still Pus but he's not oozing quite as profusely. Crassidy seems very, shall we say, *restrained*. Swordsfolks, LW Bloggers, can you guess WHOSE influence has done the restraining job on him? VENCEREMOS!

Lyn

20/03/2011Hi Talk Turkey Barrie Cassidy was sedate this morning. [quote][i]Swordsfolks, LW Bloggers, can you guess WHOSE influence has done the restraining job on him? [/i][/quote] We did it Talk Turkey. Cheers

Michael

20/03/2011Insiders, March 20. Was it just me, or did Piers Akerman assert that the entire female gender is naturally inclined to be deceitful, as he observed that Julia Gillard is "a woman" who has trouble with the truth, when the nature of his comment until using that phrase and after could have conveyed precisely his political point by utilising the term "a Prime Minister" instead? Reminded me of the attacks on another "woman" made by Alan Jones on the question of the highest-ranked officer in the Australian military justice system being female. How much snideswiping does any leader have to take simply because of their gender? Especially in light of the manifest ability of Julia Gillard to take on blokes like these two at their own game and wipe the studio/interview room floor with them? (I might just patent "snideswiping")

TalkTurkey

20/03/2011Ad astra You overestimate me. Lucky guess re your birthday, all I knew was it was March. 'Course it might be you Magicked me . . ? . . I do believe in Good Magic. It's made by people (and Dog!) making other people feel good and urge them on to higher things and all sorts of good stuff. It happens everywhere in moments, you can see it in sparkles and mists in people's eyes, and Aa you do it to us all the time. That's why I think of you as A*S*T*R*A*F*I*X ! Best wishes for your long-jump to the Next Big Square!

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Mobius Ecko, How right you are. Barry O'Farrell has been picked up on a number of inconsistencies in his positions, when you can get some specifics out of his tightly-controlled mouth, during the series of debates with Kristina Kenneally.

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011I really didn't want to tell this story but wrt Michael's observation's about Piers Akerman's comments re Women, though not Alan Jones because as we all know he is a homosexual and very many of them have an aversion to women built into their DNA, however when it comes to men such as Akerman and Bolt, heterosexual both, it seems more inexplicable why they would refer to the female species so derisively, other than to think it is because they are deeply conservative. To my mind that is not the only reason. Now, as this blog is about casting racial aspersions, let me generate one of my own. I firmly believe that a fair degree of the basis of their attitudinal bias against women comes from the fact that both men are Dutch, and if there has ever been a White race of men more chauvinistic towards women then I am yet to find it.

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Dragonista thinks Peter Hartcher's piece yesterday was pure nonsense. She used to be a Liberal Press Aide, so no inbuilt bias against him.

nasking

20/03/2011Why is it that David Brooks & Mark Shields, coming from quite different ideological perspectives on issues, can sit down on PBS Newshour and have a rational, calm & civilised discussion...minus all the sniping & accusatory fingerpointing nonsense we see these days...yet Alan Jones hasn't got the decency to treat our PM w/ respect...acting like a spoilt child...whilst the well paid Andrew Bolt uses public television to pompously denigrate our Foreign Minister who is doing the right thing? It's time that reporters & hosts & columnists put away the petty "gotchya", college frat jock style of news reading, interviewing & debates and realised we need to bring people together from across the ideological divides in order to deal w/ a number of extremely serious issues that are facing us as the human race...and the environment that provides us w/ life. It's great to see cooperation between characters from all walks of political life in regard to this Libyan situation. Gaddafi is a murderous & barbaric fiend and war criminal who must be stopped...it is the just & right thing to do. Tyrannical bullies must not be permitted to crush down the very people who have the courage to stand up to them...willing to die in order to overthrow tyranny and create a fairer democratic country. The Bush administration's misadventures & bad planning should not deter us as democratic countries from doing the right thing. Lessons have been learnt...hard ones...but they should not paralyse us...we adapt...and move on. Useful & inspiring interview w/ Kevin Rudd this morning on Meet the Press. Ruddy knows how to reach across the ideological divides. Improving by the day. I respect PM Gillard for putting him out there, letting him do the job he's so suited to. To hell w/ the stirrers w/ large wooden spoons who make mega bucks out of stirring up trouble. To them I say, "Do yer job in serving the public interest...or get the heck out of the way!" [quote]Peter Hartcher wrote 'The theatrical bluster conceals that hard fact that 72 bills have been voted through the House of Representatives since the election. How many has Abbott successfully opposed? Zero.' [/quote] Indeed CU...an important point by Hartcher. Abbott is a wrecker of the worse kind...putting up hurdles to essential policy & reforms...a negabore fearmonger who has few solid principles...aided by some morally bankrupt & lazy columnists & journos...and in the long run he does his party no good whatsoever... the bills pass anyway...but the confusion & cynicism & irrational responses in the public & media sphere grow... this will only lead to a heavier rod for the Liberal Party backs down the road... there is no possible way they can live up to Abbott's exaggerated statements, demands and pronouncements...including STOP THE BOATS... not w/ everything that is going on across the world today...an awakening that will shake the very pillars of our sham systems...and eventually take us to a fairer, more rational future...but will possibly see refugee movements the likes of which we have never experienced. They must be excepted w/ compassion and deep understanding if we are to get this right...and people can eventually return to lands w/ brighter futures...rather than being forced into the hands of extremists. Abbott is a confused, devious, volatile, short-sighted, opportunistic contortionist who will only drag his party down further into the mud...where it will be left behind if it does not wake up. It's time Hockey & Turnbull made their move. Hockey as leader...Turnbull as shadow treasurer. We need some sanity in the Opposition. The times call for it. [quote]I believe in what President Obama said: “Despite all our differences, culture, religion, language; ultimately Humankind is one.” [/quote] As do I Lyn. Thnx for the quote. And thumbs up to Obama, Cameron, Harper, Sarkosy, Gillard/Rudd & Qatar, UAE leaders...and the others out there who are willing to put differences aside and heal the festering sore that is Colonel Gaddafi's grotesque regime...whilst assisting the suffering and anxious Japanese people. N'

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011I hope Ghadaffi and his murderous son, Saif, are suffering in their Armani jocks tonight. :) ReCaptcha Bingo: Conclusion in Caps!

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Did anyone else bother to watch Laurie Oakes' interview of Julie Bishop this week and then compare and contrast it to last week's interview of Wayne Swan? I think a limp lettuce leaf would have laid a glove more convincingly on Julie Bishop than did Mr Oakes. In fact, he basically just sat there while she came out with all her talking points, tried to bring up something she had said 5 years ago which should have embarassed her, but then let her slip and slide her way out from under responsibility for it. Pa-thetic. And I told him so too. And Annabel Crabb who Tweeted some nonsense about how much Kim Jong Il and Craig Emerson have in common, after his interview on Insiders. I called BS on such a tawdry comparison. I'm over it. No longer am I going to be polite to these so-called political experts. I'm not going to be abusive, but I'm not going to go meekly along with their negative characterisations of the government. Unless they dish it out in equal proportions to Abbott & Co. :)

TalkTurkey

20/03/2011Erm . . . FS and Nasking . . . Can yous please explain what precisely Ghaddafi has done to make this all necessary and laudable? Because as I said t'other day, I don't see a lot of good coming out of this concerted air attack on Libya, but I am quite certain there will be vast harm. I'm not arguing with you about your responses but I am arguing that we better have a bloody good reason for doing this. So I'd like you to tell me why he's thought of as so evil - leaving Lockerbie aside. He seems to have vast support at home . . . so any replacement government will be vastly unpopular in most of Libya, and seems to me it will have to be a puppet of the powers that have abetted the overthrow of the present one. What's to happen now? What are we actually supporting? Is there a plan at all? And especially, who's behind the unrest in the first place?

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Talk Turkey, I could start by saying that that grub Ghadaffi has responded to the Allied Force attack by deploying his own citizens as human shields around his military bases. Then, when there are attacks on his positions the first thing his media outlets do is put out some propaganda about all the 'civilian' casualties. I think that one example alone goes to the barbarous nature of the guy and his family of like-minded coves. You could almost hear the maniacal laughter from them as they brutally carved their way through the principled resistance of their fellow countrymen who were merely seeking to have the flowers of democracy bloom in their country after 40 odd years living under the repressive dictatorship of the Ghaddaffis. I don't know about you but I always look into people's eyes as the windows to their souls and there were plenty of so-called supporters of Ghaddaffi in rallies last week whose hearts just weren't in it the way you would expect them to be if they truly were enthusiastic supporters of his. Of coiurse there were enthusiastic supporters, but as I understand things, which is only basically, a lot of that support is generated not from a love of the man himself, but wrt to tribal allegiances in Libya. So a lot of it relates to the fact that Ghaddaffi has kept certain tribes in power in Libya and that is what is being defended by the supporters of the regime. However, at the end of the day, I'm supporting the will of the people who appear to be crying out for the sort of freedoms that come with living in a democracy. The sort that the Egyptians demonstrated for and got, the sort the Tunisians demonstrated for and got(all with hopeful caveats, to be sure), the sort that the Yemenis and Bahrainis and Jordainians have demonstrated for and have not yet got. Not to mention the sort that the Saudi population wish they could demonstrate for and haven't been allowed to. Yes, it's messy and will involve some strong arm tactics which I generally am not approving of to be exerted upon Ghaddaffi and his supporters, but it's only what he was doing to his own people until as recently as yesterday. I know for sure whose fighter planes I am supporting in this stoush. Yes, the people that come along to replace Ghaddaffi may well be just as bad, or worse, or Al Qaedi stooges, but knowledgeable commentators have said that that is exactly what is not happening in Ehypt and Tunisia as far as they can see. That is, Al Qaeda is not replacing dictatorships with repressive ideological theocracies in these newly liberated countries because the uprisings haven't been led by the clergy, in fact, the Muslim Brotherhood was very late on the scene in Egypt and not the instigators at all, but it has been the well-educated Middle Class who have organised themselves and who are simply crying out for what we take for granted every day. I'm willing to support that aspiration, until any other scenario can be demonstrated to be superceding that. If it takes force applied from outside Libya to achieve that aspiration, then so be it.

Ad astra reply

20/03/2011Folks You will be pleased to see that our Web Monkey, after several days of investigation into what went wrong with Lyn's links listed under Page List in the left panel, has restored LYN'S DAILY LINKS and the links for 2011. I have updated LYN'S DAILY LINKS with those that came in after the links pages played up. Web Monkey is now working on a way of aggregating all Lyn's past links, back to April of last year into an archive file. Once he has achieve this it will be added under Page List.

Lyn

20/03/2011Hi Ad I love that Web Monkey, he is just fantastic. Congratulations and a big thankyou to Web Monkey for doing such a brilliant, wonderful job for our "Political Sword". Web Monkey your the best. Cheers

Ad astra reply

20/03/2011Folks Thank you for your comments about [i]Insiders[/i] this morning, with which I largely agree. My assessment is that Piers Akerman attempted to do a Bolter with a bullying approach and much finger wagging and pen pointing at the beginning, but he was pulled up several times by Karen Middleton and Phil Coorey, and even by Barrie Cassidy, who cut him short. It seems to me that these TV shock jocks have decided that attack is the only way, and come onto programs such as this using that technique. I suspect that they may be feeling that they are losing the battle against Julia Gillard as she goes from strength to strength. So they come on and spit out their hackneyed slogans - Ju-liar, in bed with the Greens, incapable of doing anything right, and so on. I felt that by the end Akernam was neutralised somewhat, and left to dig down into his bag of dirty tricks to pull out his slur against women - referring to Julia as 'this woman'. I agree with the comments on this by Michael and FS. I can't help feeling that Barrie Cassidy's somewhat subdued performance was the result of all the adverse feedback he received after last week's episode. I hope he can now see that Akerman, like Bolt, cannot bring himself to say one good word about Julia Gillard and her Government, and that whenever he engages them he will not achieve balance, because they are both unbalanced individuals. Now that we have had Bolt and Akerman in successive weeks I do hope we can have a rest for a few weeks and get back to sensible dialogue on [i]Insiders[/i].

nasking

20/03/2011Talk Turkey, I agree w/ much Feral says above...and it's also important to remember that if we vacate the field we leave a huge opening to the likes of the scummy Iranian regime & al-Qaeda & other extremists. If we succeed here to help the Libyan people to rise up successfully against this tyrannical regime...it will send a message to the Iranian regime resistors & others that they can do it to...that they are on the right track. And will receive global support. The women & children in countries like Libya, Iran & Afghanistan do not deserve to be beaten into submission...be forced to learn extreme xenophobic/fundamentalist values and messages of hate. Children beaten w/ sticks as they are brainwashed. Women imprisoned, assaulted & killed for daring to be different. Men's lives destroyed for standing up to these tyrants...or blackmailed & forced into fighting for these barbarians. We need to offer them hope and a path to a brighter future. Healing this festering sore that is Gaddafi's regime is part of that process...providing opportunities for particpatory democracies to flourish in areas oppressed for far too long by men who torture and kill in order to bring about sham peace and benefits for the privileged few who kowtow in fear due to the brutal measures used against them & those populaces. This is another great opportunity to heal the wounds from previous screwups (early days of the Iraq War)...and just like during the halting of genocide in the former Yugslavia/Balkans demonstrate it's about assisting the people to resist out of control tyrants so they may exercise their will...and throw off the decades long shackles...assisting them regardless of race & religion...doing the right thing...as we did when ideological differences were put aside to crush the insane aspirations and spread of fear and insanity of Hitler & his devious, "win at all costs" crew. Even Hitler's tactics were eventually questioned by his officers & supporters...eventually contributing to his inevitable & deserved downfall. Gaddafi must go. Don't leave an opening for other menaces to society. N'

Ad astra reply

20/03/2011Nasking Thank you for your comments about Libya. and Kevin Rudd's role in the ongoing drama. Some sneeringly call him Kevin Everywhere, but what on earth do they expect our Foreign Minister to do and say when we have Libya in turmoil, Bahrain beset with civil strife, major protests in Yemen, and an unmitigated and still unfolding tragedy in Japan. Shouldn't we be grateful that he is so well informed, so up to date, so articulate about the evolving dramas, so willing to come on TV and tell us all about it. And on [i]Meet the Press[/i] this morning he was not prepared to take any nonsense from Hugh Riminton or the panel. He decided what was an appropriate question and answered only that. Personally I think Rudd is doing a brilliant job, and applaud his many phone calls to important figures overseas to ascertain what's going on. Yet we have Akerman scornfully questioning why he is so prominent over these matters "as we don't have a border contiguous with Libya". Well Piers, we don't have a border contiguous with any other nation, so should that have kept John Howard out of Iraq and Afghanistan? What a stupid man Akerman can be - his hatred of anything Rudd or Gillard or Labor brings out ridiculous utterances like he made this morning. And I call him stupid not simply to use a pejorative label, but because I really believe on this matter and many others, his utterances really are stupid in the full meaning of the word - tediously dull, especially due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless. BTW, I notice that the MSM has given up on trying to push the line that there is a split between Gillard and Rudd. It was always a dead duck, so why did it take them so long?

2353

20/03/2011[quote]BTW, I notice that the MSM has given up on trying to push the line that there is a split between Gillard and Rudd. It was always a dead duck, so why did it take them so long?[/quote]I suspect that the MSM had nothing better to "shock & amaze" the public with last Sunday morning prior to Bolt's tirade on Insiders.

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Lachlan Harris, Kevin Rudd's former COS has started writing a column for the Sunday Telegraph: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/talking-to-haters-abbotts-big-mistake/story-fn6bmfwf-1226024483572

Ad astra reply

20/03/2011Folks I have often thought that we ought to dissect on [i]TPS[/i] some of the more outrageous articles that appear in the MSM. Yesterday we had Peter Hartcher letting fly at PM Gillard, Opposition Leader Abbott, Labor (which by the way is facing 'looming death' and 'oblivion') yet giving no clue as to how all this might pan out with the alternative confined to "…one-trick oppositionism [which] will be terminally exposed as a failure". I have scarcely ever read a more pointless article. A few of us have had a go at exposing this extraordinary example of illogicality. But if you want a clue about how to forensically dissect and destroy an article, do read Andrew Elder's appraisal of Annabelle Crabbe's piece [i]Kevin, um, it seems, ah, we (shuffle) sort of, ah, owe you an apology[/i] in the Friday edition of [i]The Drum[/i] http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/18/3167814.htm Elder takes her and her article apart and shreds her credibility in the process. It's at the top of Lyn's links for today: [i]Sorry for what?[/i] http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/ If Annabelle can still lift a pen or open her mouth again after that mauling, I would be amazed. It is said journos have thick skin. Annabelle will need just that.

Ad astra reply

20/03/2011Hi Lyn Thank you for your kind comments on Web Monkey. I'll pass them on. Thank you FS for the link to Lachlan Harris' piece in [i]The Sunday Telegraph[/i]. I understand he will be a panellist on [i]Q&A[/i] tomorrow evening. That should be interesting, considering his background with Kevin Rudd.

Ad astra reply

20/03/20112353 You are likely right. If there is no 'shock and amaze' in the Sunday papers, what will their readers do?

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Here's the template for the sort of 'Income Management' the Coalition may be contemplating for Social Security recipients: http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/war-poor-minnesota-republicans-want-b

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Wayne Swan's Economic Note containing information on the Tax Forum in October: http://treasurer.gov.au/DisplayDocs.aspx?doc=economicnotes/2011/009.htm&pageID=000&min=wms&Year=&DocType=

nasking

20/03/2011[quote]What a stupid man Akerman can be - his hatred of anything Rudd or Gillard or Labor brings out ridiculous utterances like he made this morning. And I call him stupid not simply to use a pejorative label, but because I really believe on this matter and many others, his utterances really are stupid in the full meaning of the word - tediously dull, especially due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless. [/quote] So true ad Astra...BTW, happy birthday! Yes, Akerman once again proved he is no better than the loud mouthed, obnoxious kid in the classroom who desperately seeks attention...disrupting learning...trying to undermine and shout down other participants who need to be heard from. His lack of balance demonstrates to me that he is a political operative in the guise of a journo/commentator...same as Andrew Bolt & Allan Jones... ...extremely biased individuals w/ political agendas that don't deserve to be taken seriously by any reader/viewer that is searching for balanced reporting. I still feel that Barrie Cassidy is working towards a gig w/ the Murdoch empire and generally caters to the empire's troops. If one observes closely his rhetoric & behaviourisms when it comes to the Murdoch troops you'll not there is a familiarity, obsequiosness, tolerance of crap & lies, his feeding tactics and so on that you could refer to as "too close for comfort" considering his role as a public broadcaster host. This is not quality television. Thruout the past two Insiders my wife and I have felt the accusatory, exaggeration filled, rudely interruptive, politically biased spin, ignorant, myopic and mega-loud voices of Murdoch attack dogs have dominated the show and given it more of a Fox News-like tone...than one of calm, rational discussion of issues we would expect from a public broadcaster. Some of the ABC news shows are gradually moving towards the worst kind of backdoor infotainment & brash "gotya", ambush HYPE & lazy copycat reporting we would expect from a corporate cable station in the making. The corporate Bee hive mind needs to be dealt w/ by pest control. For the sake of THE MANY. N'

Ad astra reply

20/03/2011FS Thank you for the link to Wayne Swan's Economic Note. It reads well. In contrast, the piece on the Minnesota Republicans is frightening, but revealing of their intentions.

Ad astra reply

20/03/2011Nasking Thank you for your birthday greetings. I agree with what you have said about Akerman, Bolt and Co, but find somewhat alarming the notion that Barrie Cassidy might be lining up for a Murdoch gig. Heaven forbid!

nasking

20/03/2011I noted Lachlan Harris's reference to Fox News, Republican Party pollster Frank Luntz...I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. It was obvious Rudd was the man to take down Howard long before Luntz gave another of his charade performances. And Gillard played an important role in Howard's defeat too...brilliant parliamentary performances. I don't need the tricky dick, perception manipulating Luntz to tell me that Tony Abbott is a dead man walking politically. N'

Acerbic Conehead 2

20/03/2011Patricia WA: "It amazes me that there is so much ignorance amongst Christians and people in the west generally about where their 'Judeo-Christian' culture originated." Thanks, Patricia, yes if someone makes a "god" in their own image, they can justify anything. And thanks again, AA. Glad you liked the ditty. Happy birthday for yesterday, by the way.

Ad astra reply

20/03/2011Thanks AC; I'm calling a day and going to watch Midsomer Murders - I wonder how many will be murdered tonight before the mystery is solved - it is usually three!

Graeme

20/03/2011Nasking, I agree [quote]Gaddafi must go. Don't leave an opening for other menaces to society.[/quote] but the last thing we want is a puppet government set up by Western powers for their own ends, such as happened places like Nicaragua, Colombia and Haiti. Real democracy can only be achieved by the people of Libya, not imposed by outside interests. The 'guided democracies' of the past have been an unmitigated disaster for the majority of the populations of those countries on which it has been imposed, improving things only for the economic elites and the multi-nationals, resulting in an exodus of capital to Western economic imperialists. If (when?) Gaddafi is defeated, it is up to the international community to help ensure that the people of Libya have the government [i]of their own choosing [/i].

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Nasking, You might be interested to know that Mr Denmore smells the same rat at the ABC that you do: http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/2011/03/last-commons.html

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011This is another good reason why Gadaffi has to go(he has this on all the TV screens in Libya atm):| http://twitpic.com/4bdypt

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Here's the document outlining the Carbon Price Mechanism agreed to by the MPCCC: http://www.climatechange.gov.au/government/initiatives/~/media/publications/mpccc/mpccc-carbon-price-mechanism.pdf

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011If anyone is interested here is Professor Garnaut's latest Climate Change Review: http://www.garnautreview.org.au/update-2011/update-papers/up6-carbon-pricing-and-reducing-australias-emissions.pdf

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Now, I normally would not go near Ron Paul with the proverbial pole, but this was linked to on Twitter and it lays out some telling information about the Japanese Nuclear crisis fairly and squarely: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?284158-27-Signs-That-the-Nuclear-Crisis-in-Japan-Is-Much-Worse

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011This is how close to disaster the ALP federal government is: http://www.theage.com.au/national/alp-backbencher-in-fatal-collision-20110319-1c1ox.html

Miglo

20/03/2011Hi Feral, I'm so glad you have written about race and I have enjoyed reading your offering. It also proves once and for all that great minds think alike. I have been researching the origins of racism towards Aborigines in colonial Australia. It's a very long read and it exposes some horrible truths about our forefathers. For those with either the time or the interest in such matters you can find my article here: http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/theyre-gonna-die-out-anyway/

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Miglo, Thank you for your supportive words. It just irks me that these Christian Supremacists, who have barely changed the tune they dog-whistle from the bad old days of White Supremacy, are having just as much success this time around as they did last time they went around the block. Only, as I said, this time they have learnt to avoid the racially-charged 'White Supremacist' tag by co-opting willing participants who are not White but who are willing to adopt all of the same discriminatory stances as those who used to form the bulk of the White Supremacist brigade. In Australia it's people like that Danny Nahlia character, and, sadly, might I say, some Indigenous Australians like Noel Pearson. In other words, as long as you agree to be assimilated into the pan-global arch-conservative Christian Borg, you will be accepted with open arms. Then it's 'Onward Christian Soldiers' to fight the Crusades against the Muslims again. Sigh. Although not that there isn't an equally rabid lot of extreme Islamists for the world to deal with as well. I just wish they'd leave the rest of us alone to get on with our lives, instead of labelling us 'Blasphemers' and 'Apostates' and wanting to kill us all or convert us. :)

Andrew Smith

20/03/2011My concerns about race baiting are not addressed in this article, though it is good. Firstly the cleverness of this strategy, which has emerged in Australia over past 15 years, coinciding with John Howard becoming PM. I suspect there was personal prejudice involved but also political, it is an issue that transcends political parties where even Gillard descended into a bt of "dog whistling" knowing quite well that Labor has its fair share of old "white Australan" protagonists. Further, in my opinion it is not the "bogans in marginal electorates" mantra that causes this phenomenon, because they are merely informed by an increasingly political activist conservative media. However, this doesnot absolve the more supposedly civilised liberal media concerned about effects of immigration and population growth on environment, infrastructure etc. in Melbourne, Sydney and SE QLD, i.e. just more nuanced. Finally, who feeds media, DIAC and politics the required misinformation, unsupported conclusions, focus upon symptons not causes etc. to further propagate what may be perceived as intolerance or a "neo white Australia" policy and identity? Everybodies' (from both sides of politics), favourite demographer and researcher, Dr.Bob Birrell of Monash University's Centre for Population and Urban Research, and their soon to be defunct journal "People and Place" http://aiecquest.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/australian-immigration-policy-and-dr-bob-birrell/ Superficial analysis shows obvious bias, and asking Birrell about his opinion on related subjects is like asking AFL's Andrew Demtriou to comment on football,"the worldgame"..... However, to be fair to Birrell he is merely providing a need for white middle class Australians and commentators from the eastern suburbs of Melbourne and Sydney..... and elsewhere...

Feral Skeleton

20/03/2011Andrew Smith, Thank you for your detailed comment. As I commented to Miglo above you, and more generally, I believe that, to use your terminology, the 'Neo White Australia' policy, where you don't have to be White anymore, specifically, just subscribe to their 'Values', is what is scooping up adherants and proselytisers for the cause. The cause being, to use an old term, a 'New World Order', which puts the economic elites in charge of 'the mob'. That is why I believe that there is this concerted attack on 'Freedom of Association' in the Republican States of America, such that if they can destroy workers free will to associate with other like-minded individuals and form collectives to bargain with employers, then they can virtually control everything else about their lives. Especially if the reports out of Wisconsin are to be believed and programs are instituted to control what people can do with their personal funds and to disallow them to carry cash, which is the traditional means for free will in the deployment of your money. Combine all this with Mr Denmore's story about the walling-off of our communications commons via an all fronts attack on independant Public Broadcasters, and it doesn't make for a pretty picture. Thank goodness for those prepared to fight this assault with whatever means they have. Nonviolently, that is. With their wits.

TalkTurkey

21/03/2011Swordsfolks, I must take issue now with two of my favourite persons on this blogsite because I am not by any means happy about their replies to my queries about the need for the military actions now being undertaken by the new "coalition of the willing", with first France, then the UK and now the US as the leaders (and the main suppliers of weaponry btw.) I shall tire of my objections to their replies before I reach their end, because I have several, and as has been noted before elsewhere on this blogsite, proper explanations are a lot more complex than three-word slogans and snide-swiping,* but I shall reprint their posts and intersperse my replies as follows: Original post by Feral Skeleton or Nasking > My comment. Then back to FS or Nas. So: - Feral Skeleton said: "I am overcome with joy today that Britain, France and the US have launched their attack on Moammar Ghaddaffi and his broadly-grinning, mass-murdering creep and friend of Mark Vaile, son, Saif Al-Islam Ghaddaffi. GO THE GOOD GUYS! The Ghaddaffis should have got out while the going was good." Nasking posted: "And thumbs up to Obama, Cameron, Harper, Sarkosy, Gillard/Rudd & Qatar, UAE leaders...and the others out there who are willing to put differences aside and heal the festering sore that is Colonel Gaddafi's grotesque regime..." Feral Skeleton said: "I hope Ghadaffi and his murderous son, Saif, are suffering in their Armani jocks tonight." Then TalkTurkey asked: Erm . . . FS and Nasking . . . Can yous please explain what precisely Ghaddafi has done to make this all necessary and laudable? Because as I said t'other day, I don't see a lot of good coming out of this concerted air attack on Libya, but I am quite certain there will be vast harm. I'm not arguing with you about your responses but I am arguing that we better have a bloody good reason for doing this. So I'd like you to tell me why he's thought of as so evil - leaving Lockerbie aside. He seems to have vast support at home . . . so any replacement government will be vastly unpopular in most of Libya, and seems to me it will have to be a puppet of the powers that have abetted the overthrow of the present one. What's to happen now? What are we actually supporting? Is there a plan at all? And especially, who's behind the unrest in the first place? [To which I would now add - "And who's to benefit from Ghaddafi's overthrow?"] Then FS replied: Talk Turkey, I could start by saying that that grub Ghadaffi . . . >Not to poison the man's well or anything in the first line! . . . has responded to the Allied Force attack by deploying his own citizens as human shields around his military bases. >Whoa there! Which came first, the horse or the cart! FFS FS, what sort of logic is that? Then, when there are attacks on his positions the first thing his media outlets do is put out some propaganda about all the 'civilian' casualties. >Volunteer civilians have been flocking to Ghaddafi's support OFFERING themselves as human shields! (according to today's news.) Is that one point down for him or isn't it two points up? I think that one example alone goes to the barbarous nature of the guy and his family of like-minded coves. >No, that one example as I have just pointed out is fatally skewed as a matter of actual fact, and therefore bogglingly unjustified, and what it really 'goes to' is YOUR mis-take on what you see as a negative for Ghaddafi. [BTW all readers please take note, I have not taken sides, I am merely trying to find some truth amidst the over-the top hype about Libya by people who it seems to me know little more than I do myself about the situation, which is not all that much. But the less I know about a situation the less I am likely to support going to WAR! which if this isn't one well ya coulda fooled me.] You could almost hear the maniacal laughter from them as they brutally carved their way through the principled resistance of their fellow countrymen who were merely seeking to have the flowers of democracy bloom in their country after 40 odd years living under the repressive dictatorship of the Ghaddaffis. >A very unadorned paragraph except for: "maniacal laughter"; "brutally carved"; "principled resistance"; "merely seeking"; "flowers of democracy bloom"(??!), and "repressive dictatorship". Wow. See I'm not sure just how repressive they are, but afa I know they are far from the worst. The people are I understand materially well off cf some others in the region. 'Course if you supplied some hard stuff to support your purple patch above, well I'd listen. I don't know about you but I always look into people's eyes as the windows to their souls . . . >Yes well there you go then. You are a scientist, I know 'cos you told me before, so I guess you can read the truth in them there eyes. Shifty-eyed? What more reason could you need to start a WAR! . . . and there were plenty of so-called supporters of Ghaddaffi in rallies last week whose hearts just weren't in it the way you would expect them to be if they truly were enthusiastic supporters of his. >Well come on Feral, this is really pretty thin isn't it! How do you know "their hearts weren't in it?" We're talking about EVIDENCE here, enough to START A WAR! Of coiurse there were enthusiastic supporters, but as I understand things, which is only basically, . . . > Yeah well considering your partisanship FS - which amounts to participation imo - you sure OUGHT to know more than 'basically'. This is a WAR, imposed on the Government of a sovereign State by a gang (may I use a term like that pls?)of foreign forces of massively disproportionate means and with almost total control of propaganda (OK call it information iyw) to the outside world, and in which I Bruce am made complicit willy-nilly because of partisanship by people who are about as clued-up on the situation as Aussies were about the Suez Crisis, and the Vietnam WAR, and the First Gulf WAR, and the second Gulf WAR, and the WAR against Afghanistan (which it might as well be.) Which just won't do for me any more. WAR's not a game for ignorant participants to play on other people far away because of stories told by idiots strutting the MSM. . . . a lot of that support is generated not from a love of the man himself, but wrt to tribal allegiances in Libya. > What if you're wrong about all that? Looking into the eyes of those supporting him they seemed pretty enthusiastic to me! 'Course I'm only half scientist m'self . . . So a lot of it relates to the fact that Ghaddaffi has kept certain tribes in power in Libya and that is what is being defended by the supporters of the regime. >And that might well be true, (me not know extent), but it's not our country! What about changing the US culture of capital punishment (or China's) (or, let's just think about the way the white tribes of Austalia treat the indigenes!) Do you imagine we are without sin? However, at the end of the day, I'm supporting the will of the people >Don Dunstan WITHERED the Liberals here when Ren DeGaris MLC claimed that the Liberals represented the "will of the people"! . . . who appear to be . . . > "appear to be"? The eyes have it? . . . crying out for the sort of freedoms that come with living in a democracy. The sort that the Egyptians demonstrated for and got, the sort the Tunisians demonstrated for and got(all with hopeful caveats, to be sure), the sort that the Yemenis and Bahrainis and Jordainians have demonstrated for and have not yet got. Not to mention the sort that the Saudi population wish they could demonstrate for and haven't been allowed to. > Feral, do you have sneaking suspicion that the rioting asylum seekers may have been geed up by sinister forces to suit their own agenda? I do. And I have a big sneaking suspicion about the real agenda for this WAR, as I had a big sneaking suspicion about WMD. Maybe I just have a suspicious mind . . . Yes, it's messy and will involve some strong arm tactics which I generally am not approving of to be exerted upon Ghaddaffi and his supporters, but it's only what he was doing to his own people until as recently as yesterday. >Suppose Abbortt's Revolters were to take to the streets and absolutely defy authority, refuse to allow the ordinary business of life to go on in Australia, what would you suggest the Government do? Roll over? . . . Oh yes, no, but that's different? I know for sure whose fighter planes I am supporting in this stoush. >Yes, as far as I know you'll be supporting French Mirages mostly, but you would be whosever side you took afa I know. Yes, the people that come along to replace Ghaddaffi may well be just as bad, or worse, or Al Qaedi stooges, >and on that basis you are prepared to support a WAR, and hope for the best? but knowledgeable commentators >Oh FFS FS! Did you get that term from Annabelle, or Bum-Bolt? have said that that is exactly what is not happening in Ehypt and Tunisia as far as they can see. >Which is how far? Who are these alleged "knowledgeable commentators"? Whose barrow do they push? And anyway, these are not the countries in question. Libya is a unique State, who do we think we are to presume to tell them to run their country according to others' preconceptions? That is, Al Qaeda is not replacing dictatorships with repressive ideological theocracies in these newly liberated countries because the uprisings haven't been led by the clergy, in fact, the Muslim Brotherhood was very late on the scene in Egypt and not the instigators at all, but it has been the well-educated Middle Class who have organised themselves and who are simply crying out for what we take for granted every day. >So . . . Nothing to do with Israel? Nothing to do with oil? Nothing to do with Sarkozy playing Bloat the BullFrog? You sure? I'm willing to support that aspiration, until any other scenario can be demonstrated to be superceding that. >There's no oil in Pakistan, so we won't worry about that one . . . Saudi Arabia, much more fundamentalist wrt eg women's rights, they're on "our" side with all their oil wealth too, so we don't need to worry about that one . . . If it takes force applied from outside Libya to achieve that aspiration, then so be it. >Well Professor I never thought to hear you say a thing like that. And Nasking agreed: Talk Turkey, I agree w/ much Feral says above... >What precisely, pray? and it's also important to remember that if we vacate the field we leave a huge opening to the likes of the scummy Iranian regime & al-Qaeda & other extremists. >Oh so it's really US playing Global Cop? If we succeed here to help the Libyan people >What proportion of them? What evidence have you that it is a majority? If they did have elections - as we do - you reckon that would help? What about if it were a hung situation? (which it probably would be afa I could imagine)? What about if they opted for what they've got, which seems the most likely outcome? Hamas was democratically elected in Palestine, Israel hates it so what happens? to rise up successfully against this tyrannical regime...it will send a message to the Iranian regime resistors & others that they can do it to...that they are on the right track. And will receive global support. >Iran's Iran, not anywhere else. . . North Korea is different from the way you might like it too . . . Probly so's China . . . but we got the wood on little Libya, so we got the moral high ground. And they got LOTS of oil. Beaudy bottler. The women & children in countries like Libya, Iran & Afghanistan do not deserve to be beaten into submission...be forced to learn extreme xenophobic/fundamentalist values and messages of hate. >But Catholicism's OK . . . and Zionism, that basically reckons anyone else but Jews are Gentiles and worth jack . . . Children beaten w/ sticks as they are brainwashed. Women imprisoned, assaulted & killed for daring to be different. >Never happen in India eh! Men's lives destroyed for standing up to these tyrants...or blackmailed & forced into fighting for these barbarians. We need to offer them hope and a path to a brighter future. >Pity we don't worry so much about Australian Aborigines! Healing this festering sore that is Gaddafi's regime is part of that process...providing opportunities for particpatory democracies to flourish in areas oppressed for far too long by men who torture and kill in order to bring about sham peace and benefits for the privileged few who kowtow in fear due to the brutal measures used against them & those populaces. >Sounds like a rant from the Two Minute Hate from Nineteen Eighty-Four! This is another great opportunity to heal the wounds from previous screwups (early days of the Iraq War)... >Sounds like a greater opportunity to open new ones to me! and just like during the halting of genocide in the former Yugslavia/Balkans demonstrate it's about assisting the people to resist out of control tyrants so they may exercise their will...and throw off the decades long shackles...assisting them regardless of race & religion... doing the right thing... >The Right thing! Liberty . . . Justice . . . The American Way . . . Hallelujah Brothers and Sisters! . . . as we did when ideological differences were put aside to crush the insane aspirations and spread of fear and insanity of Hitler & his devious, "win at all costs" crew. >WE did that? Me not remember . . . Even Hitler's tactics were eventually questioned by his officers & supporters... >As I have long questioned the West's tactics! eventually contributing to his inevitable & deserved downfall. Gaddafi must go. >Well . . . Says you . . . Cicero used to say at the end of every speech on no matter what, "Carthaginem delenda est!" (Carthage must be destroyed!) Eventually he got his way, it didn't need him to do any arguing from reason, parroting did the job fine. Don't leave an opening for other menaces to society. >So . . . whose society is that Nas? How do you mean? Does it actually HAVE any meaning? So, FS and N', I did ask some direct questions as to why you are so gung-ho, but I don't see really any answers better than what Toe-Rag Abbortt might give, and if that doesn't sting, well I'll have to try something else. The thing is we're not talking Footy here, nor footsie ftm. This is strife on a global scale, I think it is grossly precipitate and very very suss and not a little hypocritical and only legitimated because vested interests will have it so. Which is no reason you should necessarily follow suit. But of course you could be right too, so I'll reiterate my questions, hoping for some answers this time: Can yous please explain what precisely Ghaddafi has done to make this all necessary and laudable? I'd like you to tell me why he's thought of as so evil - leaving Lockerbie aside. What's to happen now? What are we actually supporting? Is there a plan at all? And especially, who's behind the unrest in the first place? [To which I would now add - "And who's to benefit from Ghaddafi's overthrow?"] If I were to compere a Current Affairs program it would be called Answer the Question! Remember, I'm not pro-Ghaddafi, but I am anti-war except as an absolute last option. That would imply national self-protection, rather than the allegedly altruistic protection of a faction or fraction or moiety within a foreign nation, which is a dubious claim at best, and a purely self-interested act in all probability. (e.g. Hitler and the Sudeten Germans.) I respect national autonomy because the opposite is imperialism, and all I want is some truth to justify what's happening in Libya. It is imo your responsibility now Feral Skeleton, and yours Nasking, as vociferous barrackers on behalf of those who have performed these quite egregious acts - which they ARE! - to justify yourselves by a whole lot better arguments than you have put above. Because I really think you haven't thought it through. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan,, Iran if we're not careful ('cos we don't dare North Korea!), cripes, when will we ever learn about simplistic Rambo fixes for other peoples because we know best for them because that's what we've been told?! Dog let us not commit forces to Libya. Oh and this gem from Graeme: "If (when?) Gaddafi is defeated, it is up to the international community to help ensure that the people of Libya have the government of their own choosing." >We'll make the bastards choose their own government whether they want to or not eh! *PS Michael: It wasn't just you. Pus slipped up when he tried to say WOMAN, the rotten rat, di'n he, ha ha. And sorry for using snideswiping, too good not to, I'll give you a special dispensation to use Archbigot Pell if it helps ease the pain.

Mr Denmore

21/03/2011Readers here may be interested in my latest column - this time on efforts by the Right to destroy public broadcasting: http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/2011/03/last-commons.html

Ad astra reply

21/03/2011Mr Denmore Thank you for the link to your piece. Everyone interested in our public broadcaster should read it, and note threat the ABC is under right now.

Lyn

21/03/2011[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [[i]The Last Commons, Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] ABC - a public broadcaster with a charter to air a wide range of voices - so seemingly desperate to court the approval of paid columnists of a magnate http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ [i]Public Pissing Contest, Neil Cook, The Bannerman[/i] sense of bitterness and loss at not having their side of politics in power in Australia. One need only watch the flow of bile to realise that http://www.waddayano.org/blog/2011/03/public_pissing_contest.php#more [i]The Opportunist: Lefty darling Les Twentyman agrees to address "No Carbon Tax Rally", Vex news[/i] Melbourne’s sleaziest figures, so-called charity worker and serial failed political candidate Les Twentyman, has attached himself to the “No Carbon Tax” cause http://www.vexnews.com/news/12603/the-opportunist-lefty-darling-les-twentyman-agrees-to-address-no-carbon-tax-rally/ [i]Swan's having a Tax Summit see, but he'll make the tax changes first, Peter Martin[/i] TREASURER: Today I’m announcing that the Government has reached agreement with the crossbenchers to hold a Tax Forum on the 4th and 5th http://www.petermartin.com.au/ [i]Fixing NSW by putting in place people even more committed to everything NSW Labor did wrong, Jeremy Sear, An Onymous Lefty.[/i]What things have been done wrong by NSW Labor that the NSW Liberals have promised to do differently? http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/ [i]Still no reason to panic over Japanese radiation,Richard Farmer, The Stump[/i] the situation at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plants remains largely unchanged. Last night’s briefing (19 March 2011, 14:00 UTC) by Graham Andrew http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/2011/03/20/still-no-reason-to-panic-over-japanese-radiation/ A[i] tune; from Brisbane, to Cairns? Campbell Newman & the LNP, Kim, Larvatus Prodeo[/i] Brisbane Times suggests the people of Queensland would get if Brisbane Lord Mayor Campbell Newman were to become LNP leader and Premier after next year’s election. http://larvatusprodeo.net/2011/03/20/a-tunnel-from-brisbane-to-cairns-campbell-newman-and-the-lnp/ [i]And another thing , Roger Wegener[/i] The ABC and its *so called* balance will cause major grief for the nation and for its people. http://roger-wegener.blogspot.com/2011/03/and-another-thing.html [i]A Potential game-changer for the Government, Blogistic Digression[/i] Tony Abbott has been rehearsing for an election campaign in which he is the champion of the stretched household budget and the working man’s job http://hrblogincyberspace.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/a-potential-game-changer-for-the-government/ [i]Resolution 1973, Intervention, and International Law, Conor Foley, Crooked Timber[/i] bloodthirsty enthusiasm with which certain sections of the blogosphere have turned the conflict in Libya into a spectator sport rather nauseating. http://crookedtimber.org/ [i]Australian Politics TV[/i] Posts from the ‘Daily Fix’ Category http://australianpoliticstv.org/category/daily-fix/

Feral Skeleton

21/03/2011Talk Turkey, I'm sorry, but your equivocation wrt Moammar Ghadaffi I find extremely troubling. You make the following statement: [quote]Can yous please explain what precisely Ghaddafi has done to make this all necessary and laudable? [/quote] May I start my attempted justification of my support for action against Colonel Ghadaffi's regime by quoting the words of a Doctor in Sunaa overnight to a journalist: [quote]" Nothing will quench his thirst for Libyan blood. He is a crazy man. Please rescue us from him. He is bombing women and babies. There is no food or water. The Coalition forces please help us!"[/quote] Now that sounds to me like it's pretty much an unalloyed truth that it is the right thing to do for the Armed Forces of the Coalition to attempt to stop in his tracks this murderous tyrant and his army being deployed against his own people. I mean, the corollary to your question is, do you believe there is ever a good reason for outside forces to step into a country where a strong arm dictator is obviously ruling his people with fear and intimidation in order to bring an end to that bloody rule? Then you say: [quote]Because as I said t'other day, I don't see a lot of good coming out of this concerted air attack on Libya, but I am quite certain there will be vast harm.[/quote] Now, I put to you, whose harm is worse, that of the, to use a hackneyed term, 'Freedom Fighters', who Ghadaffi stated he would go house to house in Benghazi, when or if he got there, and round up and take away to his torture chambers to make them pay for their defiance, those that had not already been murdered, that is? Or the harm that may occur to those in his Armed Forces already summarily guilty of Crimes Against Humanity, wrt their own people? He called the rebels "Common criminals". Do you, TT, believe that they are "Common criminals"? Next your attempt to ameliorate the atrocities which have been committed by Ghadaffi with the line: [quote]So I'd like you to tell me why he's thought of as so evil - leaving Lockerbie aside. [/quote] I'm sorry, but I cannot be blase about Lockerbie. Innocent people died that day at the hands of Ghadaffi's terrorist henchmen. It has been proven in a Court of Law, and even admitted to by Ghadaffi with the payment of compensation to the families of the murdered. In fact, not to put too fine a point on it, that one terrorist action probably inspired others subsequently to bring down airplanes in terrorist plots. However, you ask for more evidence. Suffice to say, that if you googled Ghaddaffi+atrocities, I don't think you'd get just 1 or 2 references. Brutally suppressing your own people, as did Ben Ali in Tunisia, as did Mubarak in Egypt, even though they may superficially look happy, is no way to run a country to my way of thinking. Is it to you? All so they can get their hands on the spoils of that country's resources and not share the wealth generated with their people. Next, [quote]He seems to have vast support at home . . . so any replacement government will be vastly unpopular in most of Libya, and seems to me it will have to be a puppet of the powers that have abetted the overthrow of the present one.[/quote] 'Vast support at home'??? The information I had was that Ghadaffi paid people to come out in 'support' of him. Also the situation on the ground in Libya is very tribal and Ghadaffi's tribe are definately behind him. He has indulged them for decades with largesse. Why wouldn't you support someone who has bought your support so obviously. Howard found it a handy tool too. However I would also like to point out that the enthusiasm is on the side of the 'Rebels' as far as I can see on TV. The supporters of Ghadaffi seemed to be waving their flags in a more eneervated and desultory fashion. They were also obviously surrounded by guards who were penning them in. I don't know, but that doesn't seem particularly spontaneously enthusiastic to me. I would also add that a BBC commentator said about Ghadaffi's 'support' that there may have been demonstrations of support on the street in Tripoli recently, but there were hundreds of thousands behind closed doors still, and who knows how much support for Ghadaffi is in THEIR hearts? So, how can you credibly say that any replacement government will be vastly unpopular with the majority of Libyans? You simply can't. Also to say they might be a puppet regime, come on! Do you think after the democratic uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia that puppets have or will be installed? I don't think so. They might be more co-operative with the Western powers, but is that a 'puppet'? Anyway, no one knows the true answer to that question. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, won't we? Then take it from there. Now, to follow your subsequent logic, because you have heard that people are voluntarily offering themselves as Human Shields, that makes it all OK? Firstly, the sceptical-minded would question the veracity of the statement out of the Libyan media that people were 'voluntarily' offering themselves up. Secondly, any sort of a decent leader would have told them to go home and stay safe while he fought his battles with his armed forces. Now, as for your declamations against starting a War!!! Well, what's the alternative when you have a murderous dictator brutally suppressing the legitimate rights and desires of his people for democracy? Ask him nicely to cease and desist? They tried that and Ghadaffi thumbed his nose at those who were seeking his relinquishing of power peacefully. What to do after that? Just let him go on with business as usual? I don't subscribe to that argument. [quote]'Course if you supplied some hard stuff to support your purple patch above, well I'd listen.[/quote] Now, I'm not sure if you'll believe this person, they are, after all, advocating military action against Ghadaffi, but as a Palestinian, a fellow Muslim, and someone closer to the action and an observer for may years, they might just have a point when they say the following: http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/a-mass-murderer-named-muammar-al-qaddafi/ I can probably find more 'hard stuff', if you want it. Just ask. Suffice to say, I am not 'Catholic' in my beliefs about 'War'. I found the Second World War entriely justifiable, if poorly fought. Vietnam I was against. Intervention in Bosnia, for that. Were you, Talk Turkey? Or did you get up on your hind legs against that as a naughty, dirty big 'War'? (Cue Boos and Hisses). I like to think I am more discriminating than mainatining a blanket objection to anything which may be construed as a 'War'. [quote]And that might well be true, (me not know extent), but it's not our country! What about changing the US culture of capital punishment (or China's) (or, let's just think about the way the white tribes of Austalia treat the indigenes!) Do you imagine we are without sin? [/quote] 1. Australia is not going into Libya just providing moral support. 2. If you use that argument you are simply advocating for the Japanese model of Armed Defence Forces. Which is fine, except all the bloody dictators of the world would be whooping it up at the prospect of an isolationist world. I'm sorry, I consider myself an Australian citizen first, and a global citizen second. Thus if a people are being suppressed by a strong-arm dictator, I'd like to think that the UN would authorise action against them to liberate the people for whatever uncertain future, maybe so. 3. I think that the grown-ups of the world can walk and chew gum at the same time. That is I believe we can address Human Rights abuses and Capital Punishment as a problem, whilst at one and the same time trying to free people from tyrants. As for your 'sneaking suspicions', well, what can I say? You may be right, you may be wrong. I'll await the proof of your strident assertions. Also if you wish to denigarte my use of the term 'The Will of the People' by referring to an incident where Don Dunstan 'withered' some clown in the SA Upper House, well I suppose I can't argue with that because it is a straw man, basically. [quote]>Suppose Abbortt's Revolters were to take to the streets and absolutely defy authority, refuse to allow the ordinary business of life to go on in Australia, what would you suggest the Government do? Roll over? . . . Oh yes, no, but that's different? [/quote] False equivalency. Jullia Gillard and Kevin Rudd haven't been brutally suppressing the Australian people for 40 years. Also I can't quite see how a gaggle of geriatrics in motorised wheelchairs and using walking frames, or even those that were still ambulatory but mighty fired up by Alan Jones, Ray Hadley, Chris Smith, Piers Akerman and Andrew Bolt, will need to have the AFP called out against them on Wednesday. Anyhow, if I believed that the weight of evidence supported their fgrievances against the government, say, if they were demonstarting against a repressive Abbott government who had been taking away the rights of our citizens sytematically over many years, then I sure would hope someone in the global community would have our backs, so to speak. This is where 'Global Cops' can actually be a force for good, you know. By the way, there's no oil in Palestine, either, but they seem to be supporting action. How do you explain that, TT? [quote]>So . . . Nothing to do with Israel? Nothing to do with oil?[/quote] Yes, it has everything to do with oil. I'd like to see those oil revenues going to all the citizens of Libya, not just the dictator, his family and his allies. Wouldn't you? As for Israel, well, I'm sorry but I am not deeply antagonistic, in a blanket sense, to Israel. I'm not with the Iranians who wish to see it wiped from the map. Are you? Anyway, that's a conspiracy theory too far I think to put Israel behind the machinations to depose Ghadaffi. Sure they would be happy to see him go, but I haven't noticed any Israeli warplanes pounding Libya, have you? Then you bring up Pakistan. Well, if you are so against invading forces, how then do you think the Pakistan 'problem' should be dealt with? I'd be interested to know how an avowed pacifist, as you appear to be shaping up as, would create a workable solutiion to that problem. Now, yes, Saudi Arabia is also a problem. However not every identified problem can be dealt with at the one time. I remain hopeful that Saudi Arabia will see the writing on the wall wrt their own tyrannical rule over their people and do something about it. We'll see, I guess. [quote]If they did have elections - as we do - you reckon that would help? [/quote] That, plus all the qualifiers which followed, waas my 'I never thought I's see you say that moment. So, what you're saying is that that democarcy stuff can be a messy business, so the people of Libya are better off without it? WTF? as you, youself would colourfully say. [quote]>But Catholicism's OK . . . and Zionism, that basically reckons anyone else but Jews are Gentiles and worth jack . .[/quote] . Oh, come on, TT, I'm not even going to dignify that little diatribe based upon absolutely no equivalent evidence comparable to what Ghadaffi has done to his own people for 40 years, with a detailed response. I mean, the Catholic State of torture and oppression, where? The Israeli State of torture of their own people? Nope. However, yes, what they are doing to the Gazans, and Palestinians in general, IS wrong. [quote] >Pity we don't worry so much about Australian Aborigines![/quote] I must have imagined the Apology to the Stolen Generations, and Closing the Gap, plus the recent statement to federal parliament on the progress towards attaining those goals, and all the new houses being built for our Indigenous Brothers and Sisters, and skills being taught to them to allow them to attain fulfilling jobs and lifestyles. [quote]>Sounds like a rant from the Two Minute Hate from Nineteen Eighty-Four! [/quote] That's just laughable BS from someone who I thought was more rational and considered than that, TT. [quote]The Right thing! Liberty . . . Justice . . . The American Way . . . Hallelujah Brothers and Sisters! [/quote] Too cynically dismissive by half. A low blow to higher ideals than you appear to be advocating. [quote]I think it is grossly precipitate and very very suss and not a little hypocritical and only legitimated because vested interests will have it so. [/quote] Which, if I am to have got your position correctly outlined is, War, of any sort=bad, Don't tread on dictator's toes=Good. Simply because you suspect, without any evidence proffered of your own(whilst demanding chapeter and verse from Nasking and I), that 'Vested Interests' are hiding behind the curtains here. Well, if that's so, Talk Turkey, please explain to me why Ghadaffi's closest friend in the West and recipient of about 80% of his nation's oil from Libya, that is, Silvio Berlusconi of Italy, is 4 square behind the Allies actions to unseat Muammar Ghadaffi? 'Vested Interests'??? Prove it.

Ad astra reply

21/03/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Lyn

21/03/2011Hi Ad Greg Hunt on ABC 24 at this moment, interview all about "She". The cat's mother, that's she. They can't say the Prime Minister, that hurts them. Cheers:):):):)

Feral Skeleton

21/03/2011lyn, I saw that interview with Greg Hunt too. How fresh-faced and innocent he looks. How he can sit there and lie with a straight face I do not know. :) Pity I have to go out this afternoon, I would love to see Greg Combet or Julia Gillard demolish his flimsy attack. I'll look up the aph website when I get home for a vodcast that I might be able to replay...up until the point where Abbott tries on another one of his Censure Motion stunts at 2.50PM over Wayne Swan's 'Broken Promise' to hold a Tax Summit before June 30. Yawn.

Lyn

21/03/2011Hi Hillbilly Most feeble interview by a feeble person, I have ever watched. Greg Hunt was telling lies as well, about the carbon tax compensation. I guess we know the lies are easy for them, even if using Julia Gillard's respected title is not. Vodcast would be excellent for those who missed the interview. Have a nice day Hillbilly

TalkTurkey

21/03/2011Talk Turkey, I'm sorry, but your equivocation wrt Moammar Ghadaffi I find extremely troubling. You make the following statement: Can yous please explain what precisely Ghaddafi has done to make this all necessary and laudable? >FS I don't mean to be trite . . . but that ain't no statement! May I start my attempted justification of my support for action against Colonel Ghadaffi's regime by quoting the words of a Doctor in Sunaa overnight to a journalist: " Nothing will quench his thirst for Libyan blood. He is a crazy man. Please rescue us from him. He is bombing women and babies. There is no food or water. The Coalition forces please help us!" > You know as well as I FS that the Right, where money is involved, will always find persons to make such statements. One swallow . . . But his whinge could have been justified from his pov, OK. [Did you see that Aussie woman whinging that the Aus Govt wasn't doing enough to find her son who hadn't called home? Now that sounds to me like it's pretty much an unalloyed truth that it is the right thing to do for the Armed Forces of the Coalition to attempt to stop in his tracks this murderous tyrant and his army being deployed against his own people. >"Sounds pretty much", but he's one unnamed person allegedly reported on by an unnamed reporter. This is not enough! I mean, the corollary to your question is, do you believe there is ever a good reason for outside forces to step into a country where a strong arm dictator is obviously ruling his people with fear and intimidation in order to bring an end to that bloody rule? >I'm not talking about 'ever', I'm talking about there and now. Whether I believe there might ever be I don't have to decide right now. Pol Pot's regime I think on clear published evidence I might have liked prevented from its rampages if we could have saved people, rather than as in Iraq cost them immeasurably more. (We done sweet FA.) Vietnam was a disaster. Iraq is an ongoing calamity. And so on. I need pretty hard convincing that we ought to be supporting this action. Supporting, starting - but not easily ending - with public support such as your own. Then you say: Because as I said t'other day, I don't see a lot of good coming out of this concerted air attack on Libya, but I am quite certain there will be vast harm. Now, I put to you, whose harm is worse, that of the, to use a hackneyed term, 'Freedom Fighters', who Ghadaffi stated he would go house to house in Benghazi, when or if he got there, and round up and take away to his torture chambers to make them pay for their defiance, those that had not already been murdered, that is? Or the harm that may occur to those in his Armed Forces already summarily guilty of Crimes Against Humanity, wrt their own people? >That's not the point. Civilian deaths as a direct result of our efforts in Iraq are in the 6 or 7 figures. Casualties? Now I know Saddam was supposed to have poisoned etc some of his opwn people too, but do you think Iraq is better off or worse off than when he was in power? And btw I'm not making a case for him. In Libya, will it only be military targets? O yeah. He called the rebels "Common criminals". Do you, TT, believe that they are "Common criminals"? >Whose laws are we talking about? Are they Christian, Westminster, ICJ, Islamic, cosmic? Like it or not Libya is a sovereign state, and what we are compliant in, even if not participating, is imo an act of WAR. This is uncommon criminality. Germany won't touch it. Venezuela and Guatemala won't neither, that ought to sound warning bells to Lefties. Next your attempt to ameliorate the atrocities which have been committed by Ghadaffi with the line: So I'd like you to tell me why he's thought of as so evil - leaving Lockerbie aside. >FS Hey! that's not an attempt to ameliorate and you shouldn't make it out to be. It's another question, framed as a respectful request. I merely attempted to sequestrate Lockerbie as I've never been sure about the facts there. I'm sorry, but I cannot be blase about Lockerbie. Innocent people died that day at the hands of Ghadaffi's terrorist henchmen. It has been proven in a Court of Law, and even admitted to by Ghadaffi with the payment of compensation to the families of the murdered. In fact, not to put too fine a point on it, that one terrorist action probably inspired others subsequently to bring down airplanes in terrorist plots. >And you may be right. But for good reason I asked that you left this one alone as it is ancient and disputed history and skews the debate, I'm talking recent stuff. However, you ask for more evidence. Suffice to say, that if you googled Ghaddaffi+atrocities, I don't think you'd get just 1 or 2 references. Brutally suppressing your own people, as did Ben Ali in Tunisia, as did Mubarak in Egypt, even though they may superficially look happy, is no way to run a country to my way of thinking. Is it to you? All so they can get their hands on the spoils of that country's resources and not share the wealth generated with their people. Next, He seems to have vast support at home . . . so any replacement government will be vastly unpopular in most of Libya, and seems to me it will have to be a puppet of the powers that have abetted the overthrow of the present one. 'Vast support at home'??? The information I had was that Ghadaffi paid people to come out in 'support' of him. >Yeah and GetUp paid Jason and me vast sums to scare off the Revolters! Well that's according to someone's information. Also the situation on the ground in Libya is very tribal and Ghadaffi's tribe are definately behind him. He has indulged them for decades with largesse. >I know, it seems that is so. But England has a queen and an hereditary ruling class still. America has the old rich, the new rich, and the very very rich. Same animal, different skin. As Ad astra said, what about the log in your own peeper? Why wouldn't you support someone who has bought your support so obviously. >Yes but support is support, it's just as valid when it comes to voting or fighting, even if you judge it of lesser significance. Meanwhile as I believe the standard of living and health care and infrastructure is one of the best in Africa, I stand to be corrected here. Howard found it a handy tool too. >Yeah pity Labor isn't more adept at turning largesse into support though. However I would also like to point out that the enthusiasm is on the side of the 'Rebels' as far as I can see on TV. The supporters of Ghadaffi seemed to be waving their flags in a more eneervated and desultory fashion. They were also obviously surrounded by guards who were penning them in. >FS this is skin-deep! EVIDENCE it is not. Edited, broadcast, tiny snip you reckon you know the situation? It has all the weight of Julia's handbag. I don't know, but that doesn't seem particularly spontaneously enthusiastic to me. >Alright if that is sufficient basis for you to cheer the use of hundreds of Tomahawks and Dog knows what now, but well it seems nanothin to me. I would also add that a BBC commentator said . . . >Well it must be right then . . . about Ghadaffi's 'support' that there may have been demonstrations of support on the street in Tripoli recently, but there were hundreds of thousands behind closed doors still, and who knows how much support for Ghadaffi is in THEIR hearts? >Yes, who knows indeed. Not I. Nor thou. So, how can you credibly say that any replacement government will be vastly unpopular with the majority of Libyans? You simply can't. >I too watch my TV, the most memorable quote I have seen was from a VERY angry VERY motivated man with a VERY BIG crowd waving green flags and toting small arms, saying with obvious querulousness wtte, "How come a few hundred people here get all the publicity and the sympathy, and so many hundreds of thousands love Ghaddafi?" Also to say they might be a puppet regime, come on! Do you think after the democratic uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia that puppets have or will be installed? I don't think so. They might be more co-operative with the Western powers, but is that a 'puppet'? Anyway, no one knows the true answer to that question. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, won't we? Then take it from there. >Shoot first, think later, yeah, good idea. STOP PRESS: AS I WRITE there are reports that the "fragile alliance" is showing signs of breaking apart, the feeling is that the regime will be difficult to dislodge because it has the high ground, and that the WAR-Lords of the Alliance have started to wonder about the 'End Game'(sic!) or whether indeed there will be such, whether instead there will be a permanent NFZ. That would seem to be a credible reply to your last several points. Now, to follow your subsequent logic, because you have heard that people are voluntarily offering themselves as Human Shields, that makes it all OK? Firstly, the sceptical-minded would question the veracity of the statement out of the Libyan media that people were 'voluntarily' offering themselves up. >Now hang on FS, I'm the sceptic here remember? You're the one saying Rah Rah and taking one pebble and saying you know the whole geology. Secondly, any sort of a decent leader would have told them to go home and stay safe while he fought his battles with his armed forces. >You say. But then, the French Resistance? Dad's Army? The heroic civilian Vietnamese - women equally with men - who finally evicted (our) foreign forces? Now, as for your declamations against starting a War!!! Well, what's the alternative when you have a murderous dictator brutally suppressing the legitimate rights and desires of his people for democracy? Ask him nicely to cease and desist? >As the US asks Israel to do wrt the Palestinians, yes. They tried that and Ghadaffi thumbed his nose at those who were seeking his relinquishing of power peacefully. What to do after that? Just let him go on with business as usual? I don't subscribe to that argument. >No, destroy the whole bloody country like Iraq! 'Course if you supplied some hard stuff to support your purple patch above, well I'd listen. Now, I'm not sure if you'll believe this person, they are, after all, advocating military action against Ghadaffi, but as a Palestinian, a fellow Muslim, and someone closer to the action and an observer for may years, they might just have a point when they say the following: occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/.../ I can probably find more 'hard stuff', if you want it. Just ask. >But you haven't seen it yet, eh, so you're flying a kite on spec. Suffice to say, I am not 'Catholic' in my beliefs about 'War'. I found the Second World War entriely justifiable, if poorly fought. Vietnam I was against. Intervention in Bosnia, for that. Were you, Talk Turkey? Or did you get up on your hind legs against that as a naughty, dirty big 'War'? (Cue Boos and Hisses). >This comment is not worthy of you FS. My Dad was a navigator in bombers in WWII very non-gung-ho about war, before during and after, but volunteered eventually when Australia looked under threat from Japan, he didn't need to, he was a Teacher and exempt from being pressed. Under those circs I would have followed in his footsteps in every way, i.e., stayed out of it if it wasn't my fight - it's called escalation! - and only joined with reluctance but I hope courage when it became so. Call it cowardly, call it unfeeling or unneighbourly, many would I'm sure, but I think a lot of Maharishi telling us, It doesn't help to stir a muddy pool. We have done that in all the wars I remember that we have been involved with. We are still doing it. We might be about to do it AGAIN! Would you rather the Government volunteered military support for the "fragile alliance" now stafing Libya FS? Now I really AM interested in your answer to that! I like to think I am more discriminating than mainatining a blanket objection to anything which may be construed as a 'War'. >Well I can see that! And that might well be true, (me not know extent), but it's not our country! What about changing the US culture of capital punishment (or China's) (or, let's just think about the way the white tribes of Austalia treat the indigenes!) Do you imagine we are without sin? 1. Australia is not going into Libya just providing moral support. >So do you think that is a more moral position, or a more hypocritical one? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > . . . Enough. I've pretty well said a lot of what I want to say, sure don't want no "WAR" here, and I'm getting bored and weary of the fight. Let it be clear I am not in a blanket sense anti-WAR, as you quite unjustly impugn may I say FS, but I am against leading the charge into it where negotiation and information might avoid it. In particular I am anti-escalation, and I am deeply mistrustful of the motives, and the very capabilities too, of those seeking by violent means for the overthrow of foreign regimes. There might be some more bits of answer-to-answer further on in this post but I've lost track a bit. The >'s that came back to me a a bit of a spinout, so I'll desist from further comment. I've said my bit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2. If you use that argument you are simply advocating for the Japanese model of Armed Defence Forces. Which is fine, except all the bloody dictators of the world would be whooping it up at the prospect of an isolationist world. I'm sorry, I consider myself an Australian citizen first, and a global citizen second. Thus if a people are being suppressed by a strong-arm dictator, I'd like to think that the UN would authorise action against them to liberate the people for whatever uncertain future, maybe so. 3. I think that the grown-ups of the world can walk and chew gum at the same time. That is I believe we can address Human Rights abuses and Capital Punishment as a problem, whilst at one and the same time trying to free people from tyrants. As for your 'sneaking suspicions', well, what can I say? You may be right, you may be wrong. I'll await the proof of your strident assertions. Also if you wish to denigarte my use of the term 'The Will of the People' by referring to an incident where Don Dunstan 'withered' some clown in the SA Upper House, well I suppose I can't argue with that because it is a straw man, basically. >Suppose Abbortt's Revolters were to take to the streets and absolutely defy authority, refuse to allow the ordinary business of life to go on in Australia, what would you suggest the Government do? Roll over? . . . Oh yes, no, but that's different? False equivalency. Jullia Gillard and Kevin Rudd haven't been brutally suppressing the Australian people for 40 years. Also I can't quite see how a gaggle of geriatrics in motorised wheelchairs and using walking frames, or even those that were still ambulatory but mighty fired up by Alan Jones, Ray Hadley, Chris Smith, Piers Akerman and Andrew Bolt, will need to have the AFP called out against them on Wednesday. Anyhow, if I believed that the weight of evidence supported their fgrievances against the government, say, if they were demonstarting against a repressive Abbott government who had been taking away the rights of our citizens sytematically over many years, then I sure would hope someone in the global community would have our backs, so to speak. This is where 'Global Cops' can actually be a force for good, you know. By the way, there's no oil in Palestine, either, but they seem to be supporting action. How do you explain that, TT? >So . . . Nothing to do with Israel? Nothing to do with oil? Yes, it has everything to do with oil. I'd like to see those oil revenues going to all the citizens of Libya, not just the dictator, his family and his allies. Wouldn't you? As for Israel, well, I'm sorry but I am not deeply antagonistic, in a blanket sense, to Israel. I'm not with the Iranians who wish to see it wiped from the map. Are you? Anyway, that's a conspiracy theory too far I think to put Israel behind the machinations to depose Ghadaffi. Sure they would be happy to see him go, but I haven't noticed any Israeli warplanes pounding Libya, have you? Then you bring up Pakistan. Well, if you are so against invading forces, how then do you think the Pakistan 'problem' should be dealt with? I'd be interested to know how an avowed pacifist, as you appear to be shaping up as, would create a workable solutiion to that problem. Now, yes, Saudi Arabia is also a problem. However not every identified problem can be dealt with at the one time. I remain hopeful that Saudi Arabia will see the writing on the wall wrt their own tyrannical rule over their people and do something about it. We'll see, I guess. If they did have elections - as we do - you reckon that would help? That, plus all the qualifiers which followed, waas my 'I never thought I's see you say that moment. So, what you're saying is that that democarcy stuff can be a messy business, so the people of Libya are better off without it? WTF? as you, youself would colourfully say. >But Catholicism's OK . . . and Zionism, that basically reckons anyone else but Jews are Gentiles and worth jack . . . Oh, come on, TT, I'm not even going to dignify that little diatribe based upon absolutely no equivalent evidence comparable to what Ghadaffi has done to his own people for 40 years, with a detailed response. I mean, the Catholic State of torture and oppression, where? The Israeli State of torture of their own people? Nope. However, yes, what they are doing to the Gazans, and Palestinians in general, IS wrong. >Pity we don't worry so much about Australian Aborigines! I must have imagined the Apology to the Stolen Generations, and Closing the Gap, plus the recent statement to federal parliament on the progress towards attaining those goals, and all the new houses being built for our Indigenous Brothers and Sisters, and skills being taught to them to allow them to attain fulfilling jobs and lifestyles. >Sounds like a rant from the Two Minute Hate from Nineteen Eighty-Four! That's just laughable BS from someone who I thought was more rational and considered than that, TT. The Right thing! Liberty . . . Justice . . . The American Way . . . Hallelujah Brothers and Sisters! Too cynically dismissive by half. A low blow to higher ideals than you appear to be advocating. I think it is grossly precipitate and very very suss and not a little hypocritical and only legitimated because vested interests will have it so. Which, if I am to have got your position correctly outlined is, War, of any sort=bad, Don't tread on dictator's toes=Good. Simply because you suspect, without any evidence proffered of your own(whilst demanding chapeter and verse from Nasking and I), that 'Vested Interests' are hiding behind the curtains here. Well, if that's so, Talk Turkey, please explain to me why Ghadaffi's closest friend in the West and recipient of about 80% of his nation's oil from Libya, that is, Silvio Berlusconi of Italy, is 4 square behind the Allies actions to unseat Muammar Ghadaffi? 'Vested Interests'??? Prove it. Feral Skeleton >>> FS xxx TT Fin

Doug Evans

21/03/2011I noticed Feral Skeleton referred to DragOnista's piece on why Hartcher is wrong about demise of ALP. Hartcher is distrusted for good reason but I'm afraid that this time he is probably right. DragOnista's analysis pretty slack. As one of those former Labor voters who as of the last election finally had enough of Labor’s pandering to the right I disagree with DragOnista's thesis. She falls into the trap of assuming minor parties are just somewhere to park a protest vote. Not so. To win back those progressive voters who have shifted to the Greens, Labor will have to start implementing progressive policy. If they don’t, having jumped ship to a party who better represents your views why would they move back? As Labor are somewhat on the nose both on the right and the left they have to choose – right or left? Irrespective of the inevitable rhetoric to the contrary they will not move left for fear of further compromising their attractiveness to the swing voters in the key marginal seats. Their current stance on gay marriage and asylum seekers supports this contention. For the foreseeable future they will continue to lean right and rely on preference swapping with the coalition to hold onto or (in the case of Melbourne) claw back progressive seats. Unable to move left they will not regain voters lost to the Greens even if they shore up the inner urban seats. The unfortunate consequence of this is that their primary vote will remain low – although if they start to look even slightly competent they should regain some of the votes they are losing to the Coalition on the right. I think this is likely to mean that they will not govern in their own right for a long time. I think the dilemma they now face is every bit as profound as the split with the DLP. Someone in Labor had better subdue their overweening sense of entitlement, confront this probability and begin to think about how they can constructively ally their party with the Greens in some sort of left leaning coalition or they face a protracted stay in the political wilderness. Also, the problems with ‘mature’ (read on the nose) political parties stretch further than their policies. In the case of Labor the corrupt, stinking mess that is Labor’s internal structures and administration will continue to discourage voters from returning in the same way it discourages new members. As Hartcher indicated the recent wishy washy review and insipid set of recommendations from the trio of Labor luminaries gives no confidence that this is about to be addressed. Any self respecting AFL football club has more members than the ALP. Indeed the Australian Youth Climate Coalition has more members than the ALP and they are a whole lot more motivated. Make no mistake the ALP is in deep trouble even if they don't yet see it.

nasking

21/03/2011Feral, thnx for the Failed Estate link. I agree wholeheartedly w/ Mr. Denmore. Including the following: [quote]Now, no-one is saying that a range of voices should not be heard on a publicly funded broadcaster. But it seems fair to ask why Andrew Bolt, a journalist who already has a platform to expound his views in the biggest selling newspaper in Australia, need any further publicity. What gives him special status? Why is his opinion so keenly sought? In short, why is the ABC - a public broadcaster with a charter to air a wide range of voices - so seemingly desperate to court the approval of paid columnists of a magnate who already controls70 per cent of the metropolitan print media in Australia?[/quote] It's disgraceful w/ such a wide range of voices to choose from that the ABC Board & hosts such as Barrie Cassidy seem intent to serve us the same ones over & over again... it is not serving the public interest or fulfilling its charter... rather it is catering to the privileged FEW a backdoor spruiker for News Ltd & other corporate media entities...and as we well know, in Australia's incestious media sphere they are few... the public broadcaster is indeed being sabotaged both within & without...and it seems that many of the ABC staff who have the frontline jobs don't give a stuff...as evidenced by the lack of diverse voices they choose to hear from. They should be condemned for undermining one of the last great & reputable broadcasters...for kneeling at the altar of the media corporation that puts profit, political bias & empire building ahead of the public interest...and for wilting under the pressure of a Coalition of the Liberal & National parties that are presently under the thumb of an extremist & dangerously irrational leader & front bench. It's time there was more intervention so the ABC does not go the way of so many other useful news broadcasters...raped, pillaged and sold off to the corporate scumbags who put lining their own pockets ahead of the public interest...those who transform broadcasters into propaganda machines and marketing tools to help them do so. Shame on the saboteurs, Murdoch empire copycats & weak willed in the ABC. They are no better in some ways than those who collaborated with & oft assisted draconian, brainwashing, oppressive, ideologically myopic regimes of the past. N'

nasking

21/03/2011[quote]If (when?) Gaddafi is defeated, it is up to the international community to help ensure that the people of Libya have the government of their own choosing . [/quote] Graeme, I agree. Perhaps create an International Criminal Tribunal for Libya (ICTL). Look into Stabilisation and Association Agreements with others in the region. Provide models for democratic elections to the parties formed post-Gadafhi...etc etc. Bring in UN peacekeepers if necessary during election process. No American bases. Let the new Libyan government & the people's representatives choose who to sell the oil too and so on. Frankly, I'm pleased that America is keeping at arm's length...and primarily providing the military & intelligence expertise it has at the beginning to assist the creation of a "no-fly zone"...whilst is willing to let others in the Coalition exercise their expertise & decision-making. The protection of the Libyan people seems to be prioritised over other vested interests. It does not surprise me that the Iranian regime is doing an Abbott style contortionist act over this UN resolution approved action to free the Libyan people from an oppressive & oft terrorising regime...not unlike theirs. Another contortionist act is being done by some on the American Republican side of politics & on Fox News...to their shame. Political & profiteering animals who cannot evolve. Cheers N'

nasking

21/03/2011Talk Turkey, You are entitled to your views. Frankly, I was willing to post & send by email a link to a petition for a "no-fly zone" in Libya because I remember the Srebrenica massacre...I arrived in Europe, then the UK, as the true grotesqueness of this crime against humanity unfolded & was gradually uncovered...I was not willing to stand by idly and watch Gadafhi do the same to the people of Eastern Libya. As a keen observer of American & international relations, and critic, I made the decision to put knee-jerk responses aside based on my study of American intervention in the Americas, Middle East/Levant, including the Iraq War & their looking the other way too often in regard to Israeli war crimes & oppression of some of its populace... and support this action on its own merits. To remain cynical & paralysed is partially what led to delayed but necessary action by the international community when it came to the war crimes committed in the former Yugoslavia. As for yer accusation that I'm "gung-ho"...and yer comparison to Tony Abbott...I'll put that down to you being extremely passionate regarding this issue...which has obviously been coloured by other events. Cheers N'

Graeme

21/03/2011Talk Turkey, [i]We'll make the bastards choose their own government whether they want to or not eh! [/i] Which is only fair enough. If the majority of Libyans want to continue with the dictatorship of Colonel Gaddafi, that's up to them, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Regardless of what sort of government [i]they[/i] decide best suits them, my point was that it should not be exploited in the manner that countries like Nicaragua and Haiti have been. I was not suggesting that we should make the Libyan population do anything, not even revolt against Gaddafi. Nasking And, if they are not already involved, keep organisations like the IMF and World Bank as far as possible away from Libyan finaces.

Feral Skeleton

21/03/2011Talk Turkey, I actually agree with Joshua Holland: http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/534298/libya_no-fly_zone%3A_the_problems_with_interventionism/#paragraph2 He is one of my favourite writers. He speaks a lot of uncommon good sense on a regular basis. Therefore I believe his conclusion to be a valid one in the circumstances. That is, he hopes the mission is a successful one because its aims are altruistically sound. He fears the worst, but hopes for the best.

D Mick Weir

21/03/2011Doug Evans @ March 21. 2011 05:13 PM Thanks for your comment. I had been trying to put together some words along similar lines to those that you have written. While I think the piece was having 'a bob each way' by having a go at both sides there were some things that needed to be said. IMHO the ALP made a big mistake in '07 by basically copying the then governments policies on refugees and 'the economy' among others. They are still trying to prove themselves 'more fiscally conservative' than the Conservatives. There is much evidence that the current government is still in thrall of the neocons and here is another straw on the camels back as far as I am concerned: [b]Unemployment is about to become more painful. The minister doesn't seen to care - Peter Martin[/b] http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/03/unemployment-is-about-to-become-more.html [i]'Unemployment is about to become more painful after the government rejected a last-minute plea to stop a rule change due on April 1. ... The minister's hardline response, ... means the threshold will be set at a level judged appropriate during budget cutbacks 14 years ago without any adjustment for inflation in the decade and a half since.' [/i] Wot-tha, do these people have no heart? They have lost me.

Jason

21/03/2011DMW, Until the factions are sorted out and the "neocons " like Farrell Feeny Hogg Arbib etc have their wings clipped, nothing will change!

Feral Skeleton

21/03/2011Joe Hockey signing the Coalition's death warrant at the next election: http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/03/hockey-says-tax-cuts-would-go-hes-wrong.html

Feral Skeleton

21/03/2011DMick Weir, I read that article you linked to by Peter Martin, and whilst at first blush it seems reprehensible for Chris Evans to be busting the Asset Limit back to that set 14 years ago by Costello & Howard, I have a niggling feeling at the back of my mind that the upcoming Budget was going to be about Welfare Reform and so am hopeful therefore that it won't be the draconian sort favoured by the Coalition, but may involve some other sort of cost readjustment mechanism(if that makes any sense), which kicks in when someone loses their job, has Assets but is allowed to access Retraining courses without having to pay for them, or Driving Lessons, or money for that new suit that the Brotherhood of St Laurence speak about. I hope so.

D Mick Weir

21/03/2011Jason @ March 21. 2011 08:41 PM, the way things are going, is there any 'hope' that it will happen before, say, 2025? FS @ March 21. 2011 08:55 PM [i]'... the upcoming Budget [b]was[/b] going to be about Welfare Reform ... [/i] My emphasis, but was may be the operative word. We can hope, but I don't hold out much of it. Seriously, they have lost the plot, and while I don't in any way wish to see Mr Abbott and co. on the treasury benches, more and more I don't think this lot deserve to warming those benches either.

Ad astra reply

21/03/2011Folks Q&A was good viewing tonight. Jason Clare and Lachlan Harris were impressive. More tomorrow. Good night.

Feral Skeleton

21/03/2011DMW, Are you saying the choice is now between the Devil and the deep blue sea? :)

Lyn

22/03/2011 Good Morning Ad Ad, I am just busting to see what you say about this: [i]Satire or serious? More Alene Composta? Or is the Political Sword for real? If I’m there, the ABC is not balanced, Andrew Bolt, SMH This is our perception - we want OUR ABC back. Wow. Who is the “us” that owns “our” ABC, I wonder? despite receiving the support of a fellow ABC contributor - and has uncovered yet another evil perpetrated by the corporate media which should alarm the Political Sword as well, if the two are not the one: its demographic of most-published authors, as “balanced” as the Political Sword demands of its ABC: One comment, black comedy: That Political Sword article reads like a black comedy. http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/if_im_there_the_abc_is_not_balanceCarbon[/i]

Jason

22/03/2011Newspoll: 51-49 to Labor http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2011/03/21/essential-research-53-47-to-coalition/

Lyn

22/03/2011Hi Ad The Mr Bolt article about "The Political Sword is broken. Here is another link: If I’m there, the ABC is not balanced http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/if_im_there_the_abc_is_not_balanced/

Lyn

22/03/2011[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]On the QT: and then there were none, Greg Jericho, Grog's Gamut[/i] Jenkins, if he had any sense, should have booted Pyne straight away, but instead he warned everyone and so booted a half dozen Lib MPs. http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2011/03/on-qt-and-then-therewere-none.html [i]A 'People's Revolt'? Really?,Kieran Fitzgerald, New Matilda[/i]The argument that the carbon tax is somehow anti-democratic is nothing more than a political slogan being used by the Opposition to try and get into office. http://newmatilda.com/2011/03/21/peoples-revolt-really [i]Tax dominates heated Question Time, Jeremy Thompson ,ABC[/i] During a feisty exchange, where no less than six Opposition members were thrown out of the chamber by Speaker Harry Jenkins, the Prime Minister was on the offensive from the first question http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/21/3169659.htm?section=justin [i]Into the pyre, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless[/i] There is a difference between smiling as the ship goes down, rallying the troops etc., and the kind of denial verging on mental illness http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/ [i]Building a better policy. One brick at a time., ASH, ASH'S MACHIAVELLIAN BLOGGERY,[/i] Steve Price so desperately tries to support Abbott, the man with no brain or at least absolutely no common sense. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/ [i]Multiculturalism and the dangers of some faith-based schools, Independent Australia[/i] It is not their role to rectify Australian society by promoting Islamically-based systems in a country which separates religion from the state. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/new-australians/multiculturalism-and-the-dangers-of-some-faith-based-schools/ [i]The Chain of scientific Authority, John Quiggin[/i] Noted scientist Andrew Bolt assures us that exposure to radioactivity is beneficial. His source is creation scientist Ann Coulter, http://johnquiggin. [i]SHOCK: News Ltd prefers Sky to ABC, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison[/i]AUSTRALIAN Agenda on Sky News set the pace for Sunday political television today with an in-depth interview with Julia Gillard… http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/03/21/news-prefers-sky-to-abc/ [i]NSW: good riddance to Labor .Gary Sauer-Thompson, Public Opinion[/i] The religious right has become prominent in the NSW Liberal Party and it will resist the Liberal National Coalition moving to the political centre http://www.sauer-thompson.com/ [i]Elections and Political Parties , David Havyatt, Anything Goes[/i] O'Farrell is pulling the same stunt as Tony Abbott in not getting his promises "costed" by a body with not only the skill, but also the resources to do so. http://davidhavyatt.blogspot.com/2011/03/elections-and-political-parties.html [i]Progressive intellectuals have poisoned the well for Labor, Julie Novak, On Line Opinion[/i] it appears that the announcement of the carbon tax proposal by federal Labor has only reinforced negative, and growing, http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11776&page=2 [i]Dead in the water?, Adam Henry, On Line Opinion[/i] At the Federal level, what we do know about the beliefs of the Federal Liberal-National coalition is that they do not seemingly agree on anything other than hating the ALP. http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11772 [i]Essential: shock — support drops for nuclear, Bernard Keane, Crikey[/i] Tony Abbott’s continually shifting position on climate change has also left voters confused http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/03/21/essential-abbott-has-them-confused-and-shock-support-drops-for-nuclear/ [i]Gillard: a religiously conservative atheist, Trevor Cook[/i]today she boasted that she could recite more of the Bible than Tony Abbott. Welcome to our secular, multi-cultural age. http://trevorcook.typepad.com/weblog/2011/03/gillard-a-religiously-conservative-atheist.html [i]Unemployment is about to become more painful. The minister doesn't seem to care, Peter Martin[/i] Unemployment is about to become more painful after the government rejected a last-minute plea to stop a rule change due on April 1. http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/03/unemployment-is-about-to-become-more.html [i]NBN may not be completed, says Turnbull, Renai LeMay, Delimiter[/i] due to what he described as “the crippling costs of the project” and the likelihood that the Australian Labor Party might lose government in a future election. http://delimiter.com.au/2011/03/21/nbn-may-not-be-completed-says-turnbull/

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011Hi Lyn Well, well, well. So Andrew Bolt reads [i]TPS[/i]! This should encourage all who contribute here to realize that we are not lone voices calling in the wilderness. Others are reading and noting. I found it curious that Bolt queried, perhaps tongue in cheek, whether the piece in question was satire. Is he incredulous that any of us could say the things about him we did? Which raises a fascinating thought - is Bolt in fact a satirist, and all his pieces clever satire? They would make more sense if they were, and humorous to boot.

Feral Skeleton

22/03/2011lyn, I will wear my badge of honour with pride. :) Andrew Bolt questions our judgement? Methinks he doth protest too much.

nasking

22/03/2011[quote]And, if they are not already involved, keep organisations like the IMF and World Bank as far as possible away from Libyan finaces.[/quote] Graeme, there's alot of conspiracy theories about this lot that sometimes seem over-the-top to me. I think it has more to do w/ who has influence over these bodies (appointees) and occasionally internal corruption rather than them being generally bad entities. The same can be applied to any company/corporation & institution. I think at this time some of those worried about the American administrations involvement in Libya might want to put that worry to bed for now & focus on the Russians. There seems to be an interesting confluence of language/rhetoric emerging from Gadahfi's lot & Putin's lot. I also think we may have some traitors in our midst, including across the political, corporate & media sphere. I would like to see the Obama administration focusing on Russia in that John McCain style. The Russian people need to wake up to the dark shadow that oppresses & cons them time & time again. Uranium companies need to wake up to. N'

Feral Skeleton

22/03/2011Nasking, Yes, the Russian situation is a fascinating one wrt Ghadaffi. I noted this morning that there is a split between Medvedev & Putin. Putin questioned the Allied attack & its aims, Medvedev came out smartly overnight and slapped him down saying he was OK with it. I think Medvedev is also watching Putin's attempts to personally create a stranglehold on power by manipulating the Russian Constitution to suit his desire to be President again. I'm not sure whether it states that you can only be President for 2 terms, or not for more than 2 consecutive terms. If the latter, then Putin will shamelessly run again, and I believe Medvedev is actually ideologically opposed to Russia returning to the bad old days of the One Party, One Man State.

Feral Skeleton

22/03/2011Talk Turkey, Read this transcript, or, better still, listen to the audio of the conversation, and try and tell me that you would rather the West had not stepped in to help these people. Btw, that doctor does not sound to me like a covert Al Qaeda operative, or someone with an ulterior motive to do anything other than fight for the freedom of his people from a murderous dictator. Note the city, TT. It's Misurata. Another of its citizens spoke to the BBC(who you seem to think are only telling half of some other story, and I can't dissuade you from that suspicion I suppose), and they told the reporter a story about an incident in 1981, 20 years ago, of 3 men who had the courage to attempt to stand up to the Ghadaffi regime and call for freedom and democracy for their people. You know what they got from Ghadaffi for their trouble? A hanging in the Public Square. Do you still believe that the proxy sectarian war between the Suniis and the Shiites being fought out ion the countries in the Middle East is worth supporting the status quo such that these people remain demonised? I mean, I don't know for sure that's what you're worried about here in not wanting to encourage the uprising of the Libyan Rebels, as I can't see any other good reason not to support them. If they come to power in Libya, sure, they may be worse than Ghadaffi, but they may be better. In Iraq, even though I did not support the method of getting rid of Saddam Hussein and his murderous sons, I can see that the Sunii leader, Saddam Hussein, has been replaced by a Shiite, Nouri Al Malaki, but he has so far proven to be nowhere near as bad as the former leader from the other sect. Sure, I would prefer a sectarian leader, but then Iraq is a Muslim country and I'll just have to live with the electoral choices of their people. Which is the only aspiration I want for the Libyan people. That they get to choose the leader that the majority want in a free and fair election. If that involves forcibly removing an entrenched despotic dictator who will not go voluntarily, I will hold my nose and accept that. While you're at it, you might like to read this handy list of the ways creeps like Ghadaffi and his cronies spread like fungus throughout the society they come to dominate. It applies to Yemen, but same difference. I just can't ethically support such situations: http://armiesofliberation.com/archives/2006/04/08/ali-abdullah-saleh-family-in-yemen-govt-and-business/

nasking

22/03/2011Feral, certainly some game playing going on. Futhermore, I've had my suspicions that during the 70s onwards a number of traitors to our countries emerged that are using corporate deviousness & power to bring about totalitarian-like corporate states not disimilar to Stalin's ideolgy...bad stuff dressed up in different guise...and I reckon many of these characters are in fact working w/in the right-wing ranks...they are certainly nothing like my Grandfather who was a UK Tory & later Independent mayor. I know they tend to sow the seeds of chaos & confusion to the detriment of our democratic, fair-go societies...and I thought it interesting how many are now sowing the seeds of doubt about the Libyan people rescue... whilst the same people were very gung-ho when it came to promoting the early stages of the Afghan war that failed interestingly to get Osama Bin Laden & the top Taliban fella...and they pumped the Iraq War...& Lebanon bombings...that helped make Iran & Russia stronger...Israel weaker...and led to huge oil price increases that preceded the GFC. These right-wing traitors are like corporate Stalinists...and interesting how Putin benefitted so much too...as did Berlusconi who helped get Libya/Gadhafi off the hook previously...and now Italy is threatening to withdraw its bases it seems if it doesn't get its way... I noticed a certain media organisation is also doing contortionist acts and creating doubt & confusion about the Libyan intervention. Doesn't surprise me...I've been suspicious of the chaos & confusion & mixed messages I've been hearing from Fox News for a good long time...those cheerleaders for the Bush administration & Iraq War. I think the new Stalinists are corporate...creating hoarding dynasties not open to scrutiny. Be wary of their attack dogs...softly spoken scumbags...who create chaos & confusion as they undermine democracy to achieve their profiteering, oddball ideological goals. Some may not realise they have traitors in their midst. N'

Feral Skeleton

22/03/2011Nasking, I can't quite imagine Murdoch as Mata Hari, but there you go, however he certainly has mastered the Dance of the 7 Veils when it comes to beguiling the world and its politicians. :) Also it was interesting to see who Putin thought was Public Enemy Number 1: Mikhael Kordokovsky, Russia's pre-eminent oil oligarch who made his play after the Soviet Union crumbled. And a Jew too! ReCaptcha Bingo: Olga dednerev :)

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011jason That [i]Newspoll[/i] can't be right - there must be a mistake. Peter Hartcher has already written off Labor and assigned it to oblivion. Isn't is curious that the result was not published/leaked last night. There must have been furious checking going on to be sure this poll was real. But pollster Martin O'Shannessy insisted this morning that this was not a 'rouge poll'; indeed he said 'there is no such thing as a rouge poll'. So I guess the poll must be real.

Feral Skeleton

22/03/2011Actually I think that the answer to Andrew Bolt's interest in Ad Astra's article is probably more prosaic than the fact that he follows what we do and say. I imagine that he, or his minions, just get up every day and google 'Andrew Bolt', to see what has been said about him, and then follow that trail. However, the subsequent interest in TPS by the Forces of Bolt's Darness would also help to explain the ratings dives for our blogs once they get out into the blogosphere.

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011FS You are likely right. Andrew Bolt's ego is such that he probably does have minions seeking out every reference to him in the press and the blogosphere. March 14, the day [i]TPS[/i] published [i]The Day News Limited Took Over Our ABC[/i] was the day it enjoyed a big spike in traffic (more than double the usual), and March 17, the day [i]TPS[/i] published [i]The day the Canberra Press Gallery believed it was governing the country[/i] was not far behind. So those pieces did attract attention, and although it is perhaps conceited to think that the illustrious Andrew Bolt would actually read [i]TPS[/i], since he reproduced a chunk of the ABC piece on his blog, it does suggest he did on that occasion.

nasking

22/03/2011[quote]I can't quite imagine Murdoch as Mata Hari, but there you go, however he certainly has mastered the Dance of the 7 Veils when it comes to beguiling the world and its politicians.[/quote] Feral, the man's base is a closed shop. I just find it interesting that once again the tricky dicks on Fox News use the most extreme so called "peaceniks" (some who are often cited by Alex Jones) and loops like Louis Abdul-Haleem Farrakhan to attack Obama & the Libyan intervention...and try and stir up Muslim doubt about the mission...whilst using right-wingers to also pour doubts on the mission...whilst saying they support the mission...but... The world has been a real rollercoaster filled w/ immense confusion...and way too much scorn has been focused on the USA & other countries that helped beat Hitler since Murdoch shifted his ideological focus 180d in the 70s... instead of sane, rational progress on issues we have seen stuff all but a growth in cynicism, mistrust of government, a sexualisation of young people yet an increase in loopy religious values (I noticed the Amish are now being pumped on Murdoch channels)... the mixed messages by way of the Murdoch empire usually benefit his family's bottom line... and don't think they don't read blogs and adapt...these are very very tricky people at News Corp & News Ltd...I've been observing Fox News since the late 90s...Murdoch's papers since the 80s...very tricky indeed. It's important that people ask themselves why their world seems upside down, back to front these days... and why Israel has made so many mistakes that have undermined its security...and possibility of good relations w/ Arabs... and why Iran has grown so strong over the past decade when reformers had the advantage back in the late 90s... and why some Russians have become so rich when Russia was on its knees...and how the Iraq War fiasco permitted some creeps there to get very rich as oil prices went thru the roof... and why Lebanon is once again broken...and Hamas & Hezbollah grew stronger... and some corporate types like Murdoch & a number of others have grown their empires thruout. No, this is not just about the Murdoch empire & the puppets who work for Murdoch & his top cronies...it's about carefully placed corporate politicians, CEOs, media talking heads who are deceiving the people...creating their own totalitarian corporate societies, as they did in China the past two decades, that put THE FEW before THE MANY. And they have reluctant allies who should know better. The focus on this blog is no coincidence. Expect ridicule. The character & blog assassination tactic/MOD of the panicked...and the devious. N'

TalkTurkey

22/03/2011Lyn For the first time you have disappointed me - but you have delighted me much more at the same time. ['atst'?] j'expliquerai: This morning you said (and I'll only use the " as per yours:) Hi Ad The Mr Bolt article about "The Political Sword is broken. Now, because you didn't close the brackets, I misread your meaning, thinking that Bumbolt had written an article called "The Political Sword is broken" and that you had also omitted a verb from that sentence. My mistake, but I was over the moon to think that he had tried to say that! In your dreams Bolt I thought. Then I realized that you meant the previous link was kaput. I was so disappointed to think that he hadn't tried to say that TPS was broken - which would have brought our raucous derisive laughter and added fuel to our fire. But so then I went and checked the article and got delighted all over again. HeeHeeHeeHeeHeeeeeee! Congratulations Feral Skeleton [aka Skelefix!] Skelly You have needled the maggot from the rotting corpse that is his support base. And you know, he will never stop reading us now, Hahahahahahaaaaa! 'Cos though he's pissweak he's not so pissweak that he would pike out of reading what we have to say about him - or is he? If he did he'd just prove that he's the most pissweak piker possible. Classic Queentrap! OOOOOOOHHHH I like playing with images of how he is seething now that he has been exposed for the empty gutless liar that he is by our warrior princess Boadicea! (Who is BOUNCING now!) Goodonya S*k*e*l*e*f*i*x ! 2 i.c. to A*S*T*R*A*F*I*X !!!

debbiep

22/03/2011Lachlan Harris made an insightful comment last night Re Opinion base journalism has become more important &/or taken over the MSM. Sadly , it seems to me that the most Opinionated writers that get that voice is right-winged. OR am I missing the balance ?

nasking

22/03/2011[quote]it seems to me that the most Opinionated writers that get that voice is right-winged.[/quote] Good point debbiep...it's like the loud mouthed, devious kid in class who uses every method, says & does almost anything to get attention...is oft catered to by teachers because of their methods or because they feel bullied/afraid...or don't have the support or bite of rules to deal w/ them. Just like there is no bite when it comes to the ABC charter...and those guidelines for other networks. N'

nasking

22/03/2011BTW, I thought Chris Bowan on ABC radio & Craig Emerson elsewhere did a fine job this morning. The government is coming together well. Thought it interesting that Sky News' David Spears & others were practically salivating over this move to oust LNP leader Langbroek for Campbell Newman...we don't mind Campbell in this househiold...but I'd like to know where he stands on nuclear power considering his background in mining...and I would never consider any LNP government if the Clive Palmer kowtowing Springborg was in a prime position. I'd like to know Newman's poistion on public education & hospitals too...we've only just seen more money finally poured into struggling schools & hospitals in disadvantaged areas...the last thing we need in QLD now is to see an undermining of that which could see the groth of more religiously divisive schools...and a right-wing patriarchal, corporate approach to education that could lead to the isolation of some students and prioritising of a Japanese style private/corporate education & training system...that seems to have conned and failed them. Nor do we need further pursuance of health insurance-based policies that has crippled so many Americans financially. It would only take two terms of a Federal Coalition government w/ the assistance of Liberal/Nat states to bring that about. Corporate profiteers benefitting at the expense of THE MANY. I notice on the front page of the Daily Telegraph that Barry O'Farrell of NSW Libs is THE BOSS now. Got me thinking of Pink Floyd's 'Animals'. N'

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011Hi Lyn I've now had time to look more closely at the piece by Andrew Bolt [i]If I’m there, the ABC is not balanced[/i] http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/if_im_there_the_abc_is_not_balanced/ He wonders whether a blogger, Alene Composta, is the author, someone of whom I have never previously heard. I followed his links to her website [i]Verdant Hopes[/i] http://verdanthopes.blogspot.com/2011/03/just-going-outside-and-may-be-some-time.html where a rather sad post today heads the list: [i]Just Going Outside And May Be Some Time - That's it. Finished. Done with. Over. Darkness.[/i] The word 'Darkness' is linked to a now defunct URL: http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/alene-composta-44722.html, an article by her that was 'taken down' by the ABC from its [i]Unleashed[/i] site. I have not seen the post, but Jonathan Holmes discusses it in an article on [i]The Drum[/i]: [i]The Composta imposter: fooled, foolish and fraught[/i] http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/17/3166634.htm One can only speculate about the genesis of this 'last post' by Alene, but I wonder is it the result of the exposure Bolt has given her, reproducing as he did her brief 'CV' on her website? Why did Bolt feel it necessary to draw attention to his March 11 piece where he 'outed' her as an a self-confessed agoraphobic, subject to panic attacks? Was this an attempt to discredit her as some sort 'nutter'? Only Bolt would know. So Bolt wonders who authored the 'ABC' piece, perhaps wondering if Alene Composta is masquerading as Ad astra. A quick look at the Gravatars ought to resolve that. I was expecting lots of caustic remarks about [i]TPS[/i] among the comments on Bolt's piece, but found that most were directed at this generic group they like to call 'lefties'. Presumably lefties are a homogenous group that all think the same, who have no individual opinions, and who therefore act reflexly against the conservatives, unthinkingly, automaton-like. They only have to read comments on [i]TPS[/i] to know this is not so. Thanks Lyn for a very interesting link.

nasking

22/03/2011[quote]Presumably lefties are a homogenous group that all think the same, who have no individual opinions, and who therefore act reflexly against the conservatives, unthinkingly, automaton-like. They only have to read comments on TPS to know this is not so. [/quote] Spot on Aa. You've obviously rattled them w/ yer beaut posts. Keep up the good work. BTW, the Murdoch empire will try to ridicule & attack the reputation of anyone they think is their competition or undermines their goals...here's more Fox News shenanigans: [quote]CNN's Nic Robertson Tears Into Fox News For Saying Libyans Used Him As Human Shield[/quote] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/21/cnn-nic-robertson-fox-news-human-shield_n_838758.html They stoop as low as ya can get. Say anything, do anything...not surprising they've supported Abbott for so long. Didn't he once work for them? BTW, I heard PM Gillard was on radio this morn...anyone know how she did? I imagine she kicked butt. N'

Patricia WA

22/03/2011[i][/i]Ad Astra - where was the reference to a 'rouge poll' by the News Ltd's pollster? I imagine it was a misprint, but I did love the idea of a 'rouge' poll and that spelling being a Freudian slip by someone somewhere on the right. If this is indeed a [i]rouge[/i] poll rather than a [i]rogue[/i] no wonder it has a delicious blush of leftish red to it. Already today Newspoll had me feeling very happy, 'in the pink' as it were and seeing [i]la vie on rose[/i] and now you mention this possible comment from O'Shannessy. I hope you're not going to disappoint me and tell me it was your own typo!

D Mick Weir

22/03/2011FS @ March 21. 2011 11:11 PM [i]Are you saying the choice is now between the Devil and the deep blue sea? [/i] Sorry for the delay replying I have been busy trying to get unstuck from 'between a rock and a hard place' :) Yep, at the moment I am not inspired by either red or blue teams. Separately, just to prove I too can be a hypocrite, a comment on the recent poll. I nearly wet my pants laughing when I heard Barnaby saying [i]' ... they should ask for thier money back, the poll is clearly wrong ... '[/i] Hope that stirs 'the possum :)

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011Patricia WA Sorry Patricia WA, I am going to disappoint you. I'm blushing - rouge-like! Of course I meant 'rogue'; my spell check let it pass, and I didn't notice it. But as you say, 'rouge' has a delicious touch to it. Martin O'Shannessy made his remark about rogue polls on AM; I haven't seen it in print. But I was astonished to hear him say: 'there is no such thing as a rogue poll'. I bet he wondered though about this one when the result came out.

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011Nasking Thank you for your kind words. Your link to the [i]Huff Post[/i] piece was informative, revealing as it did how Fox News protected its staff from the possibility of being used as human shields by not sending them to Gaddafi's compound, then insinuating that those who had the courage to go were being used for this purpose. Truth is irrelevant to Fox News. They just make up anything that suits them.

D Mick Weir

22/03/2011Latest Centre Bet Odds: ALP $2,40 LNP $1.55

D Mick Weir

22/03/2011And by way of comparison The latest market for the NSW State Election Coalition: $1.015 ALP: $15.00 Real rough comparison Federal ALP is six times more likely to win next election than NSW ALP this Saturday.

nasking

22/03/2011Lyn, thnx for the links above. This from Bernard Keane's assessment of The Essential Poll: [quote]Essential also asked several other questions. On Afghanistan, there’s been a substantial increase in support for withdrawal, from 47% in October last year to 56% last week, even as Julia Gillard wowed Americans with her own version of “all the way with LBJ”. Only 5% now support an increase in our troop levels, down from 10%, with the number supporting maintaining our current level steady at 30%. Green voters are most strongly opposed to a continuing role, but even Liberal supporters of withdrawal outweigh those who want to increase our troop numbers and those who want to maintain current levels, put together.[/quote] I'm all the way w/ Julia on this one...I think leaving the Afghani people in the hands of the patriarchal vicious Taliban & warlords would see women & children turned into beaten, brainwashed cattle. I do believe however that America needs to bring down its troop numbers and let them be replaced by those from other nations...if they can convince them...and not be seen by the Afghani people as always the frontline troops. I'm sure the American boogeyman bit helps Taliban recruitment. If Obama gets this Libyan situation right...and uses the 'hearts & minds' communication network well...it can also transform some of the distrust in Afghanistan. We have a special & limited time opportunity here to show we give a damn about the Arab, Afghani, Persian people regardless of religion...to convince them not to turn to extremists due to misinformation, accidents, the occasional bad apple on our side and propaganda from privileged sh*t stirrers like Gadafhi, and the Syrian & Irania regimes...and some devious religious leaders. Democracy can flourish across the Arab states if we get this right. And know the saboteurs in our own ranks. As for Bahrain & Saudi Arabia...at present we have enuff contacts & influence that we can apply pressure w/out going to extreme lengths...these dynastic regimes know they are up sh*ts creek...it's time they reformed faster...and stopped playing two-faced games. We would welcome their adaptation to a brighter world...and their support. They should not play the roles of Italy, Switzerland and other wishy washy states during the 2nd world war. N'

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011D Mick Weir Isn't it interesting how three Coalition members have commended Kevin Rudd on his efforts in the Libyan crisis. Last night Christopher Pyne was effusive on [i]Q&A[/i]. At the time, I thought that that was nice of him, although a tiny bit of suspicion crept in. Then at doorstops this morning Sophia Mirabella and I think it was Eric Abetz said the same thing. When politicians speak in unison it is usually because they have been briefed that way. So now the paranoiac part of me suspects that this is a clever ploy to boost Kevin Rudd with the purpose of diminishing Julia Gillard. The Coalition tried to drive a wedge between the two at the time over what they described as 'conflicting positions' being taken by the two, although that was nonsense, and not having got much traction then are now playing the 'isn't Kevin Rudd marvellous' line hoping that it will affect the polls and rekindle the 'let's have Kevin back, he's better and more popular than Julia' line. Now that might be paranoia, but as my medical mentor often told me: 'If it's true, it's not paranoia'. Thanks too for the betting figures - most revealing

Feral Skeleton

22/03/2011Nasking, You say Barry O'Farrell reminds you of Pink Floyd's 'Animals', I say he reminds me of George Orwell's 'Animal Farm's' Boss Pig. A real creature of the political system. He was on ABC Local Radio in Sydney this morning, and when the interviewer pointed out to him his long, long history as a Liberal Party apparatchik he fobbed her off by saying that, even if that is the case, he has surrounded himself with plenty of Coalition MPs with 'real world experience'. He then mentioned Mike Baird, Shadow Treasurer. That is, Mike Baird, son of former Liberal State and federal MP, Bruce Baird, who Barry O'Farrell claimed brought 'real world experience' from the Banking industry. As if. Cushy sinecures through the Old Boys network is hardly 'real world' in my book. Then there was reference to Shadow Transport Minister, Gladys Berejiklian(and why hasn't anyone asked her about her opinion wrt the Gay Marriage issue I wonder?), whose 'real world experience' was in Banking! Again. Oh, and Jillian Skinner, Shadow Health Minister is a former Herald Sun journalist. Although I guess that is the sort of 'real world experience' the Liberal Party likes. :)

TalkTurkey

22/03/2011Ad astra, Swordsfolks, It doesn't matter what the Opposition try to do to destabilise Julia Gillard. They can build up Kevin Rudd, great! That'll help! Gillard has her tail up, erm so to speak, the Labor Party is taking no more of Abbortt's nonsense and we are winning openly now. For some time Gillard has been working her way up laboriously against stiff winds and downpours like a storm-buffeted Falcon . . . Now she has altitude and clear air, and She Stoops To Conquer the Ratbirds of the Right. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and no woman I've ever seen stacks up to our Prime Minister. Not to belittle the others I hasten to add. Abbortt is in his death spiral, since many months I have been sure it would happen and although there have been major geophysical distractions from her job of bringing him down, she is right on target to do so. My one concern is Abbortt's being displaced too soon. Second to Her, the Toe-Rag is now our best asset. Watching QT . . . Dog she's so good! Labor's loving it. 51%-49% 2PP suddenly, and we're raging. Next poll will be up further. All the good work the Government has done since 1977 is going to come home to roost.

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011Folks I indicated last night I would make some comments about last night's [i]Q&A[/i], but until now I have had no time. So here goes. I thought that this episode was good viewing. It's hundredth edition was worthy of the reputation it has achieved. I thought Tony Jones was well behaved, passing up most opportunities for a gotcha (although he made a few feeble attempts with Lachlan Harris), and there was no ambush. The questions were by and large sensible and courteously put. Perhaps Jones is less inclined towards acerbic questions when he has a panel that when a single individual is there. Jason Clare, as expected, performed very well. He is a very talented young minister who is bound to go places. He was clearly across all the issues addressed to him and gave lucid answers with assurance. Watch him. Lachlan Harris showed why he was a key person in Kevin Rudd's office. Very smart, well informed, thoughtful, with well-formed opinions that he was able to defend, and easily able to deflect Jones' gotchas. The MSM lampooned Rudd regularly for having such young advisers, but last night showed why he placed such faith in them. I hope Labor can marshall his talent. Christine Milne was her usual forthright self, with well-established positions on everything thrown at her. Even if one disagrees with her, one has to concede that she knows what she is about. Christopher Pyne exhibited his characteristic motor-mouth attributes. It's as if he has a magazine loaded with cliches and slogans that he can fire off at the drop of a hat. I imagine my dear mother would have said of him: 'He can talk the leg off an iron pot'. Nonetheless he was good humoured, not overtly nasty and went along with the ribaldry like a good sport. He lost no brownie points with me, but it was the same old Christopher. I've commented elsewhere on his effusive praise for Kevin Rudd's contribution to the Libya debate. The most disappointing panellist was Miranda Devine. She said little, looked somewhat cynical as she heard some of the questions and answers, and, not surprisingly, took the conservative line. If I were Tony Jones I would not have her back. What did you think of the hundredth episode?

Patricia WA

22/03/2011Never mind, AA, that Newspoll still makes me feel very happy. It's not quite as good as exactly a year ago when the ALP were well ahead of the Coalition, but Abbott's position in the leadership stakes hasn't improved even if that of the Coalition led by him and his nasty tactics has. PM Rudd led him then at 60 to 23, and today we have PM Gillard leading him solidly still, though with not such a great margin. But she is pulling ahead and he is dropping behind. I can't see Abbott ever getting the confidence of Australians as a national leader. It's almost [i]deja vu[/i]! I'm having a lot of fun trying to update what I wrote last year about Abbott's problems with Newspoll! <a http://polliepomes.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/newspoll-has-tony-abbot-in-a-hole/> pollie pomes</a> I'll get back to you. I loved Abbott's explanation for his unpopularity - that it's hard work holding a government to account, but someone has to do it!

Patricia WA

22/03/2011Sorry, that lead doesn't work. Instead I've printed it at http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/newspoll-and-corpses/#comment-20581 How long before I can take off my IT L plates, I wonder!

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011TT I like your labels: Skelefix and Astrafix. I see you enjoyed the reference to Andrew Bolt's comments about [i]TPS[/i]. We all did. debbiep You are right. Lachlan Harris' comments about the MSM were spot on. I wonder if there is transcript of [i]Q&A[/i]? I see the questions listed on the [i]Q&A[/i] website, but no answers.

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011TT If Tony Abbott is in his death spiral, I wonder when he will crash? Julia Gillard is more than a match for him. Only rusted-on Coalition supporters will continue to swallow his endless yet meaningless slogans and clichés; the rest will soon be fed up, if not so already. Today's [i]Newspoll[/i] suggests the end for him is nigh as his ratings continue to fall and Julia surges ahead by 19 points as preferred PM. Of course we should not get excited about one poll, and we should be careful what we wish for - as you say Abbott is Labor's best asset.

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011Patricia WA Your poem about Tony Abbott and today's poll on Cafe Whispers is simply delightful; why not cross post it here for our readers. BTW my commonest typo is to type 'Tiny' for 'Tony'. Is there anything to that? Folks Min has got it right on Cafe Whispers - it was Scott Morrison not Eric Abetz who praised Rudd this morning. Silly me, thinking Eric Abetz could say something nice about any Labor politician let alone Kevin Rudd!

Patricia WA

22/03/2011Ad Astra - Whoever it is in the Liberal Party praising Rudd one senses they're insincere - it's just a strategy to highlight Rudd and downgrade the PM. Hockey, Abbott and last night Christopher Pyne - they are all doing it - just to keep Rudd and the idea of his popularity and leadership dissension in the ALP out there in the media spotlight. Now that you've asked I will cross-post the March 2010 'pome' re Abbott below. I've been trying to learn new IT skills, like embedding references etc. As well I don't want to bore those friends who visit both sites. Of course you have a lot of other visitors too! Here's hoping I can find some way of updating this with a new slant. Unfortunately Abbott keeps playing his same old dirty tricks, which I guess is why Aussies don't trust him. They can see right through him! [b]Newspoll Has Tony Abbot in a Hole[/b] March, 2010!!!!! Of course we must discount this latest poll Showing Tony Abbott in a hole. His PR team need not despair, Nor weep and wail and tear their hair. The public are confused you see, They’re just the same as you and me, Overloaded with information About this man who’ll save the nation. Once just a guy who loved to surf, Next a new friend of the earth, We’ve seen he is a mighty runner. We never know what next he’s gunna Do to foil some lefty labour strike By charging in upon his bike. Now he battles every big new tax Like flames beneath his fireman’s axe. In parliament he’s suited, dutiful, On the beach bare, bronzed and beautiful. He used to be a man of prayer That’s all gone up into thin air. Now he’s become an Iron Man He’s very confident he can Be whatever it is he wants to be. He’ll top the next Newspoll, you’ll see. We’ll show him as a great go-getter. Make sure the public know him better. Our sainted Iron Man! Nothing ironic To see him fired by energy demonic. This leader of the Opposition Is no ordinary politician. His soon-to-be election Will mark the final Resurrection Of all in Oz that’s rich and white. He still could win, our Champion of the Right!

Feral Skeleton

22/03/2011As always, I am watching Labor's back. Whilst it is a good day to get all giddy over the latest Newspoll, I am not for one scintilla of a moment going to pronounce, "game Over", and especially wrt Tony Abbott and the formidable might of the Murdoch Empire which backs him to the hilt. In fact, I would almost confidently predict that the myrmidons of the Murdoch media in Australia will be looking, gimlet-eyed, for the next slip-up by the Prime Minister, or any member of her government, in order to begin the attack on her credibility with the electorate all over again. Now, as we slip into April and the Budget gets closer, there will be speculation and 'leaks' aplenty with which the Murdoch minions will attempt to beat the Gillard government about the head with repeatedly, building up a head of steam until the Budget itself, and then we know that, once the Budget is out, it will be on for young and old alike to frame it negatively. Not to mention that the Budget-In-Reply will again be given the once over lightly with a feather duster, by way of analysis and then fluffed up like a sofa pillow, in order to begin again the attempt to sell the sow's ear as a political silk purse that is Tony Abbott. Don't for one minute think that he will go down to Joe Hockey without a fight, as that is the latest Opposition leadership team construction that is being bandied about: Joe Hockey as Leader, Malcolm Turnbull as Shadow Treasurer, and Julie Bishop in her faithful retainer of WA seats role, as Deputy Leader. Andrew Robb will also not like that potential outcome. Anyway, suffice to say we will, however, start to hear Opposition leadership rumblings in the media, if only because the Coalition are a bunch of sooks when they are not winning, but I'll not be taking any notice of it. IMHO, Tony Abbott will be there at least until 12 months before the next election. I'd be looking to the Long Winter Break from federal parliament next year before any serious move against him is made. And only if he has no glimmer of a political resurrection. We know how the Coalition believe in their Biblical antecedants, such as Lazarus leading them out of the wilderness. :) Also, I noticed a strange little manouver in Question Time today that the Opposition tried on. They purported to have the Cabinet Minutes from the meeting between Julia Gillard, Kevin Rudd et al. wherein she was supposed to have advised him to shelve the ETS. I'd be keeping a close eye out for that one to pop up in the media. I can guarantee the Coalition will be shopping it around the Press Gallery. As for last nights Q&A, I'll just make a couple of points. Firstly, unless I have got my facts wrong, Jason Clare occupies Paul Keating's old seat of Blaxland. Which gives you an indication of how much the party values him. Secondly, remember how Kevin Rudd, before the fall, was demanding that the ALP find safe seats for certain of his staff? I always thought that referred to Alister Jordan, but going on last night's Q&A performance it's possible he was trying to get Lachlan Harris a guernsey. I am pretty sure that eventually that will come to pass. Oh yeah, Miranda Devine was the first Q&A panellist that I can remember who was booed and hissed at by the audience. Appropriately so. She contributed nothing to the debate, and, in fact, detracted from it with her entirely predictable diatribes of no real relevance. As for Christopher Pyne, he always seems to bring a Minibus full of Young Liberals with him to clap his every bon mot and catty swipe at the government. :)

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011FS Like you, I'm not get excited about today's [i]Newspoll[/i]. I expect it surprised [i]Newspoll's[/i] owners, whom I suspect will now want to construct a set of ancillary questions for the next poll that might reverse today's result and bring about a headline: 'Labor sinks again' or some such. While I believe Martin O'Shannessy is a professional pollster with a reputation to protect, I wonder who gets to suggest the questions that [i]Newspoll[/i] might ask? Is [i]Newspoll[/i] so fiercely independent of its owners that it alone gets to create the questions? Wouldn't we all like to know?

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011Patricia WA Thank you for cross posting your delightful 'pome'. It is truly prescient.

Michael

22/03/2011In Question Time today Christopher Pyne very very cynically tried to hijack the word "denier" as attached to the phrase 'climate change' by asserting anyone labeled a climate change denier was actually being directly compared with, and indeed, linked to, Holocaust deniers. This horribly tricky attempt to hive off a word from common usage in general because it has been regularly used in another specific phrase recalls both the literary warnings of Orwell and the glee in mass dupability of Goebbels. Lay over the top Christopher Pyne's special bent for sanctimonious hypocrisy (especially in citing his long term support for the state of Israel, drawing Jews into an argument that I suspect very few of them would support) and you have a new low in Parliamentary 'performance'. And what did Tony Abbott have to say? Not a word. Of admonition to Pyne. Of apology to those Jews who might see Pyne's comment as the true hijacking and abuse of the word "denier". Not a word. But then, he is the number one denier, that single syllable "No" his only response to anyone he opposes. And his response to those who support him? The nudge, the wink, the manic laugh.

nasking

22/03/2011[quote]Jason Clare, as expected, performed very well. He is a very talented young minister who is bound to go places. He was clearly across all the issues addressed to him and gave lucid answers with assurance. Watch him. Lachlan Harris showed why he was a key person in Kevin Rudd's office. Very smart, well informed, thoughtful, with well-formed opinions that he was able to defend, and easily able to deflect Jones' gotchas. [/quote] Agree Aa...in fact I agree w/ much of yer analysis of Q&A...except, I reckon that Jones gave Pyne much more latitude than he normally does...tho interestingly, "motor mouth" Pyne managed to make himself look like a complete dill again...he like Abbott...& Costello in parliament...is so full of himself he doesn't know when to shut the gob. Loose lips Pyne can also get very tetchy when he's caught out...and he's been demonstrating some paranoid behaviour of late...the oddball stuff in parliament today re: assuming "climate change denier" = "Holocaust denier" was bizarre to say the least. He's acting like a runaway train of late. I think it demonstrates how many doubts & internal conflicts there are in the Coalition as their "people's revolt" fails (and so it should...a carbon price is no way the equivalent of living under a totalitarian & torturing regime...now the Libyan's people's revolt is bona fide compared to Abbott's silly, petty one to defend the Rolex revolution miners)... I can imagine that plenty of Abbott's backers are beginning to question his dopey & shortsighted negabore tactics that will leave them wiping off the dust. Weirdly, National party leader Warren Truss on SKY today spoke like yet another climate change denier acting like a tricky dick. The National party is so full of barnyard & pastoral elitists doing the wrong thing that it's not surprising they take such a backward approach to climate change. And Truss enthusiastically backed Campbell Newman to be leader of the QLD LNP...not exactly a good sign...a leader who plays silly bugger when it comes to climate change giving Campbell the thumbs up. It seems the Coalition have been infected badly by the irrational of this world. I certainly hope Newman as an engineer respects science. N'

Feral Skeleton

22/03/2011Michael, I too was gobsmacked when I saw Christopher Pyne draw a very long and calculatedly seemy bow in trying to allude that any 'reasonable' observer of Question Time who heard the government state that the Coalition were 'Deniers' would think that they were referring to Holocaust Denial. Especially in the context of the latest debate about Climate Change. When, and this IS what any 'reasonable' observer of Question Time would conclude, it was so obviously a tactic cooked up in the Coalition's QT strategy meeting today to attempt to put an end to the government labelling them a bunch of Climate Change Deniers. Well, I guess if the Opposition don't want the government calling them by the colloquial shorthand 'Deniers', then they'll have to get used to being called 'Climate Change Deniers' repeatedly instead. Because they are, in the main. I also thought the point made today that the Opposition get up and make a point of order during every question, usually citing relevance, even when it is not a question they have asked themselves, is also becoming increasingly tedious and obvious as just another tactic they have cooked up to put the government off their stride in Question Time. No wonder they are doing poorly in the polls.

Feral Skeleton

22/03/2011Now, don't forget everyone, tomorrow is Tony's day to shine. It's Revolting People Day in Canberra! March 23.

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011Michael I missed QT today, so thanks to you and Nasking for filling me in. There is no trick that Christopher Pyne would regard as off limits. Clearly his attempts to collar the word 'denier', done with the approval of his leader, and associate it with the pejorative tern 'Holocaust denier', so that people would think that 'climate change denier' is in a similar category and therefore to avoided, might be clever, but in my view will get no traction with thinking people, and they are the ones who count. Nasking I agree with your assessment of Christopher Pyne. But he did better than I expected on last night's [i]Q&A[/i]. Maybe your right - Tony Jones may have given him too much rein, but he's a hard man to rein in, because he scarcely draws breath.

Feral Skeleton

22/03/2011This is the slant The Australian has put on Christopher Pyne's antics in Question Time today: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/politial-heat-rises-over-climate-denial-with-pm-accused-of-drawing-parallels-with-holocaust/story-e6frg6xf-1226026163930

Feral Skeleton

22/03/2011Grog has helpfully supplied a list of the number of times before today that Climate Change Deniers has been used in parliament without comment from Christopher Pyne and the Opposition: http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/summary/summary.w3p;page=0;query=%22climate%20change%20deniers%22%20SearchCategory_Phrase%3A%22house%20of%20representatives%22%20Party%3A%22alp%22;resCount=Default

Jason

22/03/2011FS, Thanks for reminding us about the "peoples revolution" tomorrow!But it gets better, radio 5AA here in Adelaide have decided that after last nights poor showing on media watch, with not having enough climate deniers on the airways on Thursday @ 9am leon Byner morning host will have non other than the high preist himself Lord F@#@## Monkton! I'm not sure if he's in the country but spare me! The Turkey and I are going to try to ask him a question or two, but I doubt we will get on!

2353

22/03/2011Two things to comment on. Why would the LNP be praising Rudd? Maybe to try and wedge Gillard. Probably won't work but Rudd did a good job on Costello when they were trying the "joint ticket" approach. Newman wants to be Premier. The comment around the office when it was becoming plain as day what was going to happen over the last couple of days was versions of "what, so he can stuff up Queensland like he's stuffed up Brisbane?". The so called "public transport friendly" Newman scrapped bus lanes on the main route west of the city as soon as he came to power - eliminating any benefit the buses had on that corridor, he also cut a bus lane through the Valley with the same effect; if any area of the city has a meeting to discuss a Council development, he brings his pack of Young LNP goons along to disrupt the meeting; he gave the Clem7 Tunnel Operators (Receicers and Managers appointed) some hundreds of millions during the construction phase; built a toll bridge about 200 metres from a free bridge that has been there since the 30's (and made it harder to get to the free bridge; he has another toll tunnel duplicating a free route starting to be constructed in the next month (according to the sign I saw today in my travels) - and thats the few I can think of off the top of my head. The really funny thing is the parliamentary leader of the opposition (if this plan works) is a throwback almost to the days of Bjelke Petersen! That Langbroek and Springborg have resigned speaks volumes on the desperation of the LNP machine.

Ad astra reply

22/03/2011FS Thank you for the link to 'climate change denier'. It confirms today's performance by Christopher Pyne as another cynical stunt. He's quite good at stunts, but still needs practice. jason Enjoy the people's revolution, but don't get caught in the crush! 2353 NLP politics seems uniquely Queensland. Why the resignations today? Who is white-anting the NLP leadership? The poll-driven apparatchiks had better be sure their polls are correct and that Campbell Newman is a shoe-in. Folks I'm calling it a day. Tomorrow I'll post [i]Hartcherism - a new descriptor for political gymnastics[/i]

Graeme

22/03/2011Nasking. I have done a fair bit of reading on the IMF and the World Bank,and given the evidence produced by those writings,I don't think I'm indulging in conspiracy theory. Admittedly, my readings tend to gravitate toward people like Noam Chomsky and John Ralston Saul, but that's because they provide details of their sources when quoting the facts and figures on which I base my conclusions. I also regularly watch Sky News, Al Jazeera, the BBC, CNN, Fox News and the free to air news services to try to get some balance. One day I will try to get a life.

TalkTurkey

22/03/2011A*S*T*R*A*F*I*X said "TT I like your labels: Skelefix and Astrafix." Ad astra I'm glad you do because I always feel a little diffident calling people (ones I want to like me) things I really haven't permission to use of them . . . so I like them to like my appellations. I got even more pleasure from your liking this one than I do from thinking of evil ones for, like, Anal Jones and Toe-Rag Abbortt. Yes I do too, it's just a wee bit fun, with the little bit of legendary folklore that is growing around them-and-TPS: about how you got your degree as Warranted Warrior Wizard on your Big Square Birthday, and how Jason came to be the fearless Obelix the Menhir Delivery Man (you should see this bloke!); and how Skelefix the Unstoppable needled the obscene Bum-Bolt the Maggot from the * of the rotting carcase that is his support base; and how the noble Boadicea, our Gaelic Warrior Queen has declared War on the despicable Sqorcs from the Badlands of the Far Right . . . And of course there's the fair Tweetafix, our morning songbird, waking us daily to the news and the political weather . . . And where's that leave me? Oh No . . . Not Gobblafix !

Feral Skeleton

22/03/20112353, I've read a bit today about Campbell Newman, he of the nepotistic ride to a position of prominence and power in the Qld Liberal Party courtesy of his mother, Jocelyn. He's a Santo Santoro man, so it is said. Which is cause enough not to vote for him. Also, anyone that writes about him mentions all the tunnels to nowhere he has built. He was an Army Engineer, if memory serves me correctly. Engineers always want to construct things. Honestly, though, I know he has been the LNP's golden boy since forever, but does he really have enough charisma and force of character and personality to pull off what is an extremely 'courageous' move and win the Premiership of Queensland after having only ever run a glorfied Local Council? And badly at that from all accounts? We're looking at a new NSW Liberal Premier who has been appended to the NSW State Parliament, one way or another virtually, since he was blown in from Darwin after Cyclone Tracy. Which is bad enough, but at least he has had experience IN parliament. I suppose Campbell Newman has lived and breathed politics since he was in nappies, but to elect him as Premier and Leader of the State of Queensland when he hasn't been tested in any way, shape or form on State issues, in parliament, seems rather cavalier of the LNP, IMHO. I also read that he used to line up Labor members of Brisbane Council for suspension from Council, over completely contrived beat-ups. Hardly the actions of a principled leader. However, it is the LNP I suppose. :)

2353

22/03/2011AA, The LNP is a "merger" of the Liberal and National Parties. The ex-Nationals leader, Bruce McIvor, is the President of the merged entity. The merger was pushed by McIvor and Lawrence Springborg - the Nats leader at the time. One of the "drivers' of the merger was when the Libs leader at the time (Bruce Flegg; who had just rolled someone else who seemed to be a nice bloke but completely inept as leader - pity I can't remember his name) was asked on day 1 of the 2005 election campaign "who would be the Premier if the Libs got more seats than the Nats" and completely fluffed the answer. (The correct answer was Springborg - but Flegg said it depended on who got more seats.) So anyways, the Nats "merged" with the Libs. Springborg remained leader until the 2008 election was lost - then accepted the Deputy position when Langbroek (bother of the Melbourne radio "personality") took over. They both resigned today and claim they will remain backbenchers in any future Parliament. This sort of adds some credibility to Bligh's statement tonight that NcIvor is calling the shots on the floor of Parliament. Bligh then went on in mock horror that he has never been a candidate and how dare he - which blew most of her credibility on the issue!!! Jeff Seeney (another recycled "Leader" who definitely goes back to the mid 90's and may go back to the end of Bjelke Petersen is the "leader" in the House, although Newman is the leader in the Party Room - according to a 7.30 Queensland interview tonight. Meanwhile at the Brisbane City Council, the next election is due 31 March 2012. Under the City of Brisbane Act, if a member resigns within 12 months of an election, there is no need for a by-election, instead the party can just appoint someone. So Newman resigns if he becomes the Member for Ashgrove (the incumbent ALP Minister has a 7% margin - so it's not a certainty) within 12 months of the Council Election, his Deputy - Graham Quirk gets tapped on the shoulder to become Mayor from the LNP organisation and in turn gives up his Ward (Wishart) so the LNP can parachute some hack into the Wishart Ward as well. The Mayor doesn't represent a Ward in the Brisbane Council. Head spinning yet??? There's more but getting less relevant so I'll leave you be.

2353

22/03/2011As a follow up, this may make it clearer! http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/seeney-the-lnps-seat-warmer-20110322-1c4kq.html

Macca

22/03/2011So it appears "Mr One Million Hits Per Month" reads TPS. Onya Bolta, Keep reading AA, HS, NormanK and the others. Also have a go at Grogs Gamut. If you be a really, really good little bolt and study their styles someday, someday you may be able to produce something approaching a coherent, lucid and intelligent article. Be warned though. Intelligence and lucidity may cost you nine hundred and ninety nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety nine redneck hits per month. As you know they don't do intelligence that well.

Lyn

22/03/2011Hi Talk Turkey I have been trying to post you a comment all day, but I keep losing ReCaptcha. Just worked out, the problem is when I instal internet explorer 8, so have had to do restore system to an earlier date about 3 times. [quote]And of course there's the fair Tweetafix, our morning songbird, waking us daily to the news and the political weather . . . And where's that leave me? Oh No . . . Not Gobblafix ! [/quote] I love my name Tweetafix, & Skelefix, Astrafix." also yours Gobblafix, you are our cleverfix Mr Turkey. [quote]For the first time you have disappointed me - but you have delighted me much more at the same time. ['atst'[/quote]?] Talk Turkey, I was so amazed about the link to Bolt, it's a wonder I got it posted. Made me happy to see what Ad Astra thought and happy to see your opinion as well. I noticed Mr Bolt did not compliment "The Political Sword" with a link, but I think his readers would have come and had a look at Ad Astra's article. So therefore, we had a free advertisement, and looks like Mr Bolt did read Ad's article. Cheers

D Mick Weir

22/03/2011Ad Astra @ March 22. 2011 02:49 PM [i]Isn't it interesting how three Coalition members have commended Kevin Rudd on his efforts in the Libyan crisis.[/i] Just goes to show that Politics 101 these days is more about workshopping percieved weakness of the opponent than actually getting on with governing the country in the interests of the country and its' people. My reading of the 'modus operandi' is to paint the Prime Minister as hopless in Foriegn Affairs which just goes to show she is hopless as the leader of the nation. Another proverbial straw on my camels back that makes me more and more cynical about the current crop of hacks we have as representatives.

D Mick Weir

22/03/2011FS @ March 22. 2011 09:51 PM I can't say I know a lot about Campbell Newman as I only knew him momentarily as a twelve year old which is about the time his father, Kevin, won the Bass by-election. Campbell was probably 'steeped in politics' from about then until he left home to go to Duntroon as a cadet. I can tell you that Kevin Newman was a smart bloke who had big shoes to fill when he took over Bass from (then Deputy PM) Lance Barnard, a consumate 'parish pump pollie' in the best sense of that phrase. KN did a very good job of filling those shoes and was a good representive of his people. I can attest KN was not averse to 'consorting with the enemy' and know that he had more than one beer with some ALP backroom types and a then forthcoming Premier of Tas and discussing tactics and other 'shennanigans'. Both his parents were pretty good in representing thier constituents. If any of that rubbed off on Campbell he could make a good leader.

TalkTurkey

22/03/2011DMW Will you please tell me exactly what your Gravatar is of? What's the story? Is that a FROZEN cat? If not why not?!

D Mick Weir

22/03/2011TT @ March 22. 2011 11:38 PM If you look carefully you will see that Anonymous de Gamut is snoozing in amongst the pipes of one of those old fashioned furnace fed water heater things that were popular in schools in southern climes and elsewhere.

TalkTurkey

23/03/2011Tweetafix, Astrafix, Skelefix, Obelix, Gobblafix* . . . H'mmm. Nasking = Grizzlifix, surely? Oh and then there's Acerbix . . . (I have some in mind for some of yous other Swordspersonalities, better name your own now lest the one I'm thinking of mightn't be to your liking!) e.g. one person I'm thinking of could be Bananafix . . . He might even like it! Versifix . . ? . . or . . ? . . *I think I got my own name wrong. I remember now. Not Gobblafix but just Gobbelix. Musta been the mead me and Obelix had made me forget me own name. I knew something was wrong. Yeah. Obelix and Gobbelix, that's right.

TalkTurkey

23/03/2011D Mick Weir said: "If you look carefully you will see that Anonymous de Gamut is snoozing in amongst the pipes of one of those old fashioned furnace fed water heater things that were popular in schools in southern climes and elsewhere." Heh heh. Gamutifix.

D Mick Weir

23/03/2011[i]Heh heh. Gamutifix.[/i] :)

TalkTurkey

23/03/2011This, from Daniel Wills, The Advertiser March 19, 12.00 AM [Background from TT: Steele Hall (better known to us Croweaters as Tin Shed) was the Liberal Country League's leader who gained 19 seats as opposed to Don Dunstan's 19 seats, with one Independent, Tom Stott, a creep who on election night, on TV, actually fell off his chair rocking back in an excess of puffed-up self-delight as he realised that he was about to become Speaker. He soon brought down Don's Govt., but the Hall govt was a onceler anyway before Don got in again. Hall wasn't the worst of the Liberals. In fact he was almost liberal. He must be at least 80 by now, I think. Haven't heard from nor of him for decades. anyway when you read carefully the paragraph highlighted by me with * . . . * , you might wonder about his state of mind . . . It MIGHT be BETTER than you might think initially!] . . . Anyway today's banner headline reads: Former Premier Steele Hall's carbon revolt PROTESTERS opposed to the proposed carbon tax want to enlist former South Australian premier Steele Hall. Organisers of the "grassroots revolt" expect about 500 people - including Mr Hall - to gather at the Parliament House rally on Wednesday. The protest comes after Ms Gillard this week invoked memories of Mr Hall's contemporary, Don Dunstan, during an Adelaide speech as she attempted to rally support for reform. Mr Hall yesterday declined to comment on his reasons for joining the protest, telling The Advertiser: "When I speak, then I'll be happy to say something to add to it." * He later said he was reconsidering the appearance, which is being promoted in flyers distributed by the protest group. * [Got that? He's probly not gonna turn up after all! TT] Event organiser Peter Jenkins said protesters were linked by a combination of climate change scepticism, anger over Ms Gillard's broken pre-election promise not to introduce a carbon tax and fear over its cost-of-living impact. . . . He claimed the protest had no political affiliation or financial backing. (D'urrrhhhh.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Obelix! To arms! Bring a Size Nine menhir and your horniest helmet. 10.30 AM I think though would you believe it the stupid Revolters are so dumb they don't mention the time! I will blow your conch around 9 or else blow mine.

Lyn

23/03/2011[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i] On the QT: I am confected with outrage, Greg Jericho, Grog's Gamut[/i] Abbott may have peaked – his dis-satisfaction rating of 54 per cent pretty well screams to Libs that this guy will never be PM (or at least it should be)http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2011/03/on-qt-i-am-confected-with-outrage.html [i]The blind leading the naked, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless[/i] Niki Savva has no sense, no nous and no respect. Because she talks nonsense, and her head looks like a fist draped in puff pastry, it is imperative she stays off the telly too. http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/2011/03/guide-for-whom-to-do-what-nobody-really.html [i]ALP: writing the obituary ,Gary Sauer-Thompson, Public Opinion[/i] The Canberra Press Gallery is starting to write the obituary of the Gillard Government and that of the ALP. Glenn Milne addresses the former issue when writes http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2011/03/alp-writing-the.php#more [i] If You Price It, They Will Come. ashghebranious, Ash's Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] Pricing carbon WILL work and it WILL save money and it WILL create an environment for renewable energy source. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/if-you-price-it-they-will-come/ [i]Has Gillard got away with it on carbon?, Bernard Keane, Crikey[/i] There’s been an impressive array of excuses trotted out for today’s Newspoll showing a big lift for Labor and a similar fall for the Coalition, http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/03/22/labor-still-in-trouble-but-has-gillard-got-away-with-it-on-carbon [i]Crashes and rebounds, Possum Comitatus, Pollytics[/i] (Newspoll, Nielsen, Essential Report, Morgan Phone Poll and Galaxy when they publish) have generally moved together over the last 6 weeks or so. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/ [i]Bad behaviour, bibles, and lessons learned in Question Time, The Other Side[/i] Speaker Harry Jenkins worked himself into a pre-emptive hissy fit early on and declared a general warning, which is – to Speakers – what “Don’t make me come back there!” http://othersideblog.com/?p=22 [i]Pyne objects to PM's 'holocaust allusion', Jeremy Thompson, ABC[/i] We know she's trying to allude to the holocaust. It is offensive and it must stop." http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/22/3170694.htm?WT.mc_id=newsmail [i]WikiLeaks and the myth of objective journalism, James Moore, Independent Australia[/i] WikiLeaks has sent a storm of outrage across the globe because the public is uninformed due to inadequate journalism. The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/politics/wikileaks-and-the-myth-of-objective-journalism/ [i]IAEA finds some high beta-gamma contamination Levels, Richard farmer, The Stump[/i] Radiation monitoring at two locations in Fukushima Prefecture showed high beta-gamma contamination levels, http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/ [i]Campbell's cockamie campaign, John Quiggin[/i] Langbroek and Springborg have quit. Seeney certainly won’t outshine Newman, but he can still do the LNP plenty of damage. http://johnquiggin.com/ [i]Tunnels to Townsville, Kim, Larvatus Prodeo[/i] whenever it looks like government won’t just fall into their laps, they descend into farcical infighting. http://larvatusprodeo.net/ [i]Putting NBN words in Cisco’s mouth, Renai Lemay, Delimeter[/i]blog Alright, admit it. Who’s been feeding News Ltd commentator Andrew Bolt stats published by global networking giant Cisco (PDF)? Fess up. We know it was one of you anti-NBN guys. From Bolt’s blog today: http://delimiter.com.au/2011/03/21/putting-nbn-words-in-ciscos-mouth/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Delimiter+%28Delimiter%29 [i]Not Seeing The Whole Picture, Dave Gaukroger , Pure Poison[/i]Herald Sun’s resident Information Technology and Communications expert, Andrew Bolt, today dives back into his “Wireless means we don’t need the NBN” nonsense http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/03/22/not-seeing-the-whole-picture/#more-9466 [i]The trifecta of wrong, Opinion Dominion[/i] Andrew Bolt has been busy downplaying any danger to both workers and the public from the Fukushima accident, http://opiniondominion.blogspot.com/2011/03/trifecta-of-wrong.html [i]Andrew Bolt says that radiation leaks are good for you! Tim Lambert, Deltoid[/i] After arguing that people should trust the scientists about nuclear power, Andrew Bolt is back with a post advancing the claim that http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2011/03/andrew_bolt_says_that_radiatio.php

Ad astra reply

23/03/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Patricia WA

23/03/2011Reminder to sandgropers in or around the metro area today of the gathering at the Convention Centre at noon that they can support the government's Carbon Tax just by showing up, wearing something blue (what?) - well, just this once!

2353

23/03/2011The worm is turning. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/crouching-tigger-in-limbo-as-his-housemates-play-hypotheticals-20110322-1c5ao.html I doubt if you would have seen this "printed" a year ago.

nasking

23/03/2011[quote]I also regularly watch Sky News, Al Jazeera, the BBC, CNN, Fox News and the free to air news services to try to get some balance. One day I will try to get a life.[/quote] Graeme, is that Al Jazeera the condensed one on free-to-air or the 24hr version. I wish I could get it. As for Fox News, I noticed that Glenn Beck is acting like the East German Stasi or Stalinists again...using recordings of conventions done in secret...it seems the Murdoch media has a thing about wiretapping and taping people in secret...how corporate totalitarian of them. I also noticed Sky News on Agenda this morn was keen to push the accusations of the war criminal Gadafhi before Obama or anyone else's involved in the Libyan intervention. Why doesn't that surprise me coming from the too oft ideologically biased & blind Murdoch news outlets? BTW Graeme, I don't read you as being a tinfoil hatter like Glenn Beck who tends to ripoff & sometimes channel Alex Jones. I know there are concerns w/ the financial organisations you mentioned...I just prefer to see it as ideologically-driven corruption & influence on policy. Do you watch PBS Newshour on SBS in the arvos?...I find that offers up some quality journalism. Occasionally I watch CBS News from America...when Sky News decides they aren't going to interrupt it...as they did w/ Campbell Newman's Napoleonic announcement yesterday. Newman certainly has one heck of an ego to think he can dump the voters of Brissie after the floods...and run the LNP outside of parliament. Not only does it disturb the sense of consistency required for the cleanup & rebuild across QLD...but it makes a mockery of our democracy. I can imagine this precedent will lead to American style politics where the person w/ the largest amount of dosh thinks they can buy our democracy & elections. Not good. If I were Anna Bligh I'd go the full term...get on w/ the QLD rebuild job that she promised to do this year...and let the QLD public wake up to how incredibly egotistical, brash & irrational this move is by Newman. I have to say that my wife & I are very disappointed w/ him...we did respect him. It also means that the media will focus intensely on his council work and funding of projects in the public interest. BWAHAHAHA...just fooling ya. We have Murdoch's Courier Mail up here. Expect more a "gude on how to win" for Newman from them...and as for the QLD ABC, if they got more Right & biased against the government we could label them Qld's 'Murdoch & Friends'. Let the LNP stew in their own 'desperation stew' Anna. On w/ the job...for the sake of QLD. N'

Ad astra reply

23/03/20112353 Thank you for your explanation of the convoluted politics in Queensland and your links to the [i]Brisbane Times[/i] pieces. I think I understand better now, but I'm still not sure what precipitated the resignation of the NLP leader and his deputy. Was it the internal polling that showed Campbell Newman would/could bring about a win at the next whereas the others couldn't? Macca It is astonishing that the million hits month man would be remotely interested in what we say on [i]TPS[/i]. With his large ego, I would have thought he would toss off anything we non-commercial bloggers say. D Mick Weir I agree with your assessment. The 'praise Rudd' affair has nothing to do with Rudd; it is intended to demean and diminish our PM. Thank you too for the information about Campbell Newman. TT Today will be an interesting one in the 'people's revolt' saga. Fancy Steele Hall being involved.

Ad astra reply

23/03/2011Folks I have just posted: [i]Hartcherism - a new descriptor for political gymnastics.[/i] www.thepoliticalsword.com

nasking

23/03/2011Fred Barnes, a regular panelist on Fox News, after criticising the Obama administrations response to the Libyan situation, just said: "Nothing good ever happens in the world unless the United States is leading it." Crikey! Talk about arrogance...no wonder Obama is taking a different approach than the Fox News & many Bush Neo-Cons would like. Fox News is one of the reasons America is perceived so badly, distrusted in the world at times. The arrogance, the pushiness, the too oft confused messages, the faux patriotism that is oft used to hook-in audiences and promote an anti-union, cut the wealth & top business people's taxes agenda. Perhaps Fred Barnes forgets about all the good that Aussie NGOs & rescue teams have done for other countries...and they don't need America to lead them. Nor regarding the East Timor situation. And I don't remember America leading the way when the Irish "troubles" were diplomatically dealt with to bring peace. But I do remember the New Orleans response. Under the leadership of GW Bush...who enjoyed watching the Republican propaganda outlet each day...Fox News. I reckon Obama's administration, Cameron's, Sarkosy's and others, including the military, have just about got this right...keep Gadafhi & his forces guessing as ya cut supply lines, take down communication ability, knock off artillery units, both mobile and fixed...gradually cutoff moneys to fund weapons & mercenaries...isolate soldiers...assist training of rebels...communicate w/ Gadafhis officers & politicians...and so on... but we wouldn't expect the knee-jerkers & ideologically blind in the Murdoch empire to get "nuanced" positions, "cautious" strategies..."uniting not dividing" moves..."sharing responsibility and not gloating"...and so on. They're too busy to trying to bash Obama & the Democratic party...thinking more about the next election & profits...than freedom for the people in Libya...and across the other Arab & Persian states. FRAUDS. Faux News. N'

Feral Skeleton

23/03/2011. . . [quote]He claimed the protest had no political affiliation or financial backing. [/quote] Yet the person who is organising the Canberra No Carbon Tax Rally, from the erroneously and misleadingly-named 'Consumers and Taxpayers Association'(I'm a Consumer & I'm a Taxpayer, and his association does not represent my views in any way, shape or form), today stated on ABC News Breakfast, in an interview with Virginia Trioli, that the Bus Companies whose buses they will be travelling on had cut the fares for them(a back-handed donation to the cause from polluters expected to be affected, I would presume, by a Carbon Price); that the Banner makers had donated their banners for free; that Placard makers had offered to print signs for free; also all the Climate Change Denier Radio Shock Jocks, highlighted well by MediaWatch on Monday night, are lending their support. What needs to be winkled out of all this is, how many of those fulsomely offering their support to this 'cause', have direct links to the Liberal Party, as members of the Party, donors, or have links to those sections of the business community and its advocacy groups who are supporters of the Liberal Party? I think the answer would be: 'Quite a lot'. As someone humorously observed, instead of a coloured ribbon, they should wear plastic flowers on their lapels to show their links to astroturfing on behalf of this issue that they are protesting about.
What does two plus 1 equal?