The media – the biter bit

This old-fashioned idiom, one my parents used, seems apt to describe the contemporary spirited rail against the MSM. For what seems like an eternity the media has been biting, biting all sorts of people from the highest in the land, our PM, to the lowliest, all in the pursuit of a good story that would sell its print or electronic offerings, attract its advertisers or perhaps subserve a more sinister purpose.

From the outset, this blogsite has tackled media distortion, whether it be in the form of outright lies, omission of some of the facts, use of irrelevant information, substitution of opinion for facts and reason, pursuing a hidden agenda, or overly exhibiting imbalance and bias. There seemed to be no journalistic device that the media has not and will not use to achieve its ends. And now it is at it again in the wake of the News of The World revelations.

From the moment Lindsay Tanner released his book Sideshow: Dumbing Down Democracy, most of the media has been on the defensive against Tanner’s claim that the media is significantly to blame for the deplorable state of political reporting in this country. Journalists cried: ‘He’s shooting the messenger’. Peter van Onselen was off the mark early, not only claiming this was so, but arguing that Tanner had written the wrong book – that he should have written one exposing the inner machinations of the Labor Party that ended with the replacement of Kevin Rudd with Julia Gillard. I’m sure many journalists would have savoured that, but sorry Peter, Lindsay decided to write about something else. That PvO felt he could castigate Tanner for this ‘misdemeanour’ illustrates the level of arrogance that pervades the Canberra Press gallery. Some fellow journalists took a similar line, but almost all took umbrage at Tanner’s assertion that they were contributing to the dumbing down of democracy. How dare he! After all they are the ones that ‘hold governments to account’, and thereby render a laudable service to the public. They turned on him, and politicians generally, insisting it was they who were at fault, at fault because of their own failings and because of their evasive and defensive behaviour towards the media and their never ending spin.

The biter did not relish being bit.

An article by political editor Laura Tingle in The Australian Financial Review: Shot down in sideshow alley on 26 July begins: “

The media reacted badly when Lindsay Tanner blamed them for dumbing down political debate. But Laura Tingle thinks he might have a point.” Tingle goes onto say, inter alia; “

Tanner documents, from a politician’s perspective, what it is like to deal with the modern media. He argues that the media itself has a lot to answer for in its complaints about the shallowness of what politicians are prepared to say these days.

“

Plenty has been written about political spin, but not so much about the media end of the transaction. Tanner documents not just his experiences of this, but international trends in the way the media works.

“The reaction to Tanner’s book from the Australian media – and particularly the Canberra gallery – has been strikingly defensive and sour. Tanner has been accused of all sorts of crimes, including that he is shifting the blame for politicians not having much to say on to the media. That he is shooting the messenger. And that he shouldn’t be complaining because he always got a good run.

“I don’t think Tanner is particularly guilty of any of these crimes (even if many of us seriously doubt whether a lot of politicians have anything significant to say). 

If anything, the reaction to his book has been much more a case of shooting the messenger by the media, in a rather spectacular example of thin skin and glass jaw. It does not reflect well on journalists that they seem unable to consider that such a critique of the way they operate might have a point.”

Later, talking of “…the sort of complex issues that the political process is set up to solve” Tingle says: “Yet so often these days, we don’t cover them, because there aren’t pictures, because we think they are too complicated for our consumers, or because they don’t fit with the simple narrative of Julia versus Tony. 

This is why Sideshow is an important contribution to the political debate.”

How many other journalists have made this balanced appraisal of Sideshow?

Generally, whether in print or on political TV programs such as Insiders, defensiveness and indignation about Tanner’s book has been the order of the day for political journalists, the very ones who accuse politicians of having a ‘glass jaw’ should they react to media criticism. It seems as if there are enough glass jaws around for political journalists too. On an episode of Insiders last year, I can vividly remember Fran Kelly, in archetypically matriarchal tones, insisting that politicians ought to ‘sit there and take their medicine’, just like we took our nauseating dose of caster oil on Saturday nights. But of course they bitterly resent having to take their own medicine, no matter how therapeutic it might be for them.

The biter resents being bit.

More recently we saw more of this phenomenon. The News of the World phone hacking scandal and the complicity of press, police and politicians in this matter and its cover up, has led to understandable rage among the British public and among those who see the Murdoch empire as corrupt and corrupting in other countries, notably the US and here. And when Julia Gillard said that people here would have some ‘hard questions’ to ask of News Limited, CEO John Hartigan was soon expressing outrage, insisting that she detail the ‘hard questions’. Of course he had already asked himself some hard questions about whether inappropriate payments were happening here, although he said he was certain that hadn’t happened, and had set in train an audit of all payments by News Limited to third parties for stories. But of course it’s OK for him to ask the hard questions, certainly not the PM.

Bob Brown had even harder questions to ask about media ownership and its concentration whereby seventy percent of all print media was in Murdoch hands in this country. Brown also raised issues of ethics and privacy. News Limited is hardly blameless in this regard – one only has to remember the fake nude photos of Pauline Hanson splashed across the front page of The Sunday Telegraph in March 2009 leading to a sort of apology by editor Neil Breen “…that there was ‘no doubt’ the newspaper moved too quickly on the story”. While the media never forgets the misdemeanors of those it opposes or despises, it is quick to forget its own, and dislikes being reminded of them.

The biter dislikes being bit.

It was bit again when News Limited was accused by Stephen Conroy and other Government ministers of conspiring to bring about regime change. This brought forth denials accompanied by outrage that anyone could suggest such a thing. The fact that politician after Labor politician, and politician after Greens politician believes this to be so, as do many other political commentators who are not aligned to News Limited, is peremptorily dismissed by News Limited executives and journalists as conspiracy theory or paranoia. So much so that Dennis Shanahan was taken to write a piece in The Weekend Australian of July 23-24 with the rather quaint title: Truth the casualty in media wars – The Gillard government conspiracy theories are without foundation. A journalist from that paragon of truthful reporting, The Australian, sounding off about ‘truth’, is a laughable sight.

Dennis takes a whole page to elaborate on his theme, denying any sniff of a ‘Carmel conspiracy’ arising from a meeting of Murdoch executives at his property in California earlier this year at which it has been suggested that ‘regime change’ was discussed. And of course John Hartigan rejects the notion outright; he told The Weekend Australian: "To try to suggest there is a conspiracy is just ridiculous." What else would he be expected to say?

Shanahan and his editor Chris Mitchell insist that Rupert Murdoch does not give directives to his editors, so the idea of a conspiracy directed to regime change in Australia must be fantasy. John Hartigan flatly rejected the idea of a directive on 7.30 last week: “Like most whispering campaigns it has no element of truth”. That there was no directive might be true, but does Murdoch have to issue a directive to get his own way? All editors know what Uncle Rupert thinks and what he wants, just as kids know what their parents think and want. Otherwise how do you explain that of his 160 + newspapers, only one editorialized against the Iraq war?

You may care to read Shanahan’s rather paltry attempt to dismiss the conspiracy theory, the anti-Gillard Government bias, and any contagion of News Limited here from overseas events. He goes on to makes the case that The Australian is not the only one targeting the Gillard Government, and in the printed story selected front pages from The Australian and The Sydney Morning Herald are displayed side by side under the heading Who’s running a campaign for regime change? to demonstrate that the SMH had more strident anti-Government headlines and stories than The Australian, an attempt to use the pathetic ‘they were worse than us’ defence. Of course the pages were selected just to make that point.

More recently another prominent figure, former Police Commissioner in Victoria, Christine Nixon, has taken a swipe at News Limited, stating in her book that it waged a vendetta against her from early in her appointment right through the 2009 Royal Commission into the 2008 Victorian bushfires. As she pulls no punches, she expected that when she bit the media the bullyboys would be out in force to bite back, and she has not been let down. Herald Sun editor Simon Pristel was soon on the airwaves insisting: “…that by trying to blame the media, Nixon is trying to evade personal responsibility.” Police Association CEO Greg Davies was not far behind expressing his malice towards her with almost identical words. Already talkback callers to the Nixon debate on 774 ABC Melbourne radio are out criticizing Julia Gillard for being prepared to launch Nixon’s book this coming Wednesday. We can expect News Limited to make hay out of that.

In a story in The Australian on 29 July: Copping it sweet not Nixon's style, associate editor Cameron Stewart says: “In an interview with The Age this week, Nixon expanded her attack on News Limited newspapers, claiming they had been instrumental in bringing down her successor Simon Overland, who resigned in June after only two years in the job. It is a curious claim given that in her book Nixon links Overland's downfall to the election of the Baillieu government. In the book she says Overland was on a "slippery slope" after Ted Baillieu's victory because he was seen to be connected to the previous Brumby government. This week, Nixon claimed News turned against Overland after he criticised The Australian in August 2009 for publishing details of a Melbourne terrorism raid on the morning of the raid, despite the newspaper having received approval to publish the story from the Australian Federal Police.

“The Australian's editor-in-chief Chris Mitchell says: "Christine Nixon misses the point about The Australian and commissioner Overland.”

You may remember that episode where The Australian spilled the beans on the raid in its early edition before the raid was actually carried out, and Simon Overland’s angry rebuke to the editor of The Australian. Overland bit, so Mitchell and News Limited bit back.

Bob Brown’s and Christine Milne’s call for an inquiry into media ownership, ethics and privacy, and Julia Gillard’s willingness to consider it, has brought forth protests, anger and rejection of the need for it. We can expect savage resistance against any attempt to look at these issues, let alone regulate the media as a result. The media believes it must have free rein to bite whomever it pleases, but reacts angrily when those bitten bite back. It is just like the bullying we saw in the schoolyard. But some of us discovered that standing up to bullies resulted in them going to water. We wait to see who will win this do or die battle.

Time and again when anyone of significance has had the courage to bite the MSM, especially News Limited – Tanner, Gillard, Conroy, Brown, Milne, Nixon, the media has savagely bitten back.

So who has the glass jaw, who has the thin skin, who refuses to take his medicine, who screams blue murder when someone bites back? It is the News Limited media who set a shameful example of the biter bitterly resenting being bitten back. Sadly, there is no sign of this changing.

What to you think?

Rate This Post

Current rating: 0.7 / 5 | Rated 7 times

Sir Ian Crisp

1/08/2011How very refreshing to see an article dealing with the meeja.

Feral Skeleton

1/08/2011Sir Ian Crisp, Look up above. It's called 'The Political Sword' 'Putting politicians and commentators to the verbal sword.' Which Ad Astra has been doing ever since the blog began, or hadn't you noticed?

Lyn

1/08/2011 Hi Ad Thankyou for another fantastic article. Your work is going from great to greater Ad Astra. Sorry I tried to rub out the graffiti for you but couldn't. A couple of links to excellent articles regarding Hartigan and his feeble attempts to cover for their on-going distorted articles in detriment towards the Government: open-blog-to-john-hartigan-news-ltd-australia, Geoff Barbaro Given your knowledge of Australia’s newspapers, TV and radio news and current affairs programs, and our magazine industry, hands up anyone who is sure the tactics used by the News of the World are not being used by Australian journalists. http://geoffbarbaro.x.iabc.com/2011/07/22/open-blog-to-john-hartigan-news-ltd-australia/ The Questions Harto Won't Answer, Wendy Bacon, New Matilda News Ltd boss John Hartigan has assured the punters that all's well at Holt St. So why won't he answer Wendy Bacon's questions about how journalism gets done at his papers? http://newmatilda.com/2011/07/25/questions-harto-wont-answer Is this News limited's defence?, Inside Story News Limited does some things very well, writes Geoffrey Barker. Self-analysis isn’t one of them What particularly distinguishes News Limited newspapers is their consistently selective writing and display of material crafted to further [b]the company’s anti-government agenda[/b], and the overwhelmingly similar supporting opinions expressed by its commentators and analysts. It would be naive to think there was no controlling intelligence overseeing, coordinating and directing this effort to demonise the Gillard government and to promote the Abbott opposition. http://inside.org.au/is-this-news-limited%E2%80%99s-defence/ Cheers :):):):)

Ad astra reply

1/08/2011Hi Lyn Thank you for your kind words and the three excellent links, all to articles that coincide with what is written here. It is unsurprising that John Hartigan carries on as if his papers carry no bias, have no agenda of regime change, are unaffected by the News International scandal, and represent the finest in political journalism. His disingenuousness matches that of Tony Abbott, no mean feat.

Feral Skeleton

1/08/2011Ad Astra, As that article I linked to recently stated, inter alia, that the Conservative media and the Conservative politicians and the Conservative proprietors of that media have decided, truth must become the first casualty of the war against Progressive political ideology. It doesn't matter to them anymore about the veracity of what they write, as long as the veneer of relevance serves their ulterior motive. Citizen Murdoch has learnt the lessons of Citizen Kane and will not be brought low as a result of any sort of human frailty on his part. He won't let any of his 50,000-odd employees stray from his almost psychically-transmitted line either, except for the few token 'Lefty' writers that he keeps in the papaers to create the facade of 'balance' and to lure those of a Left of Centre bent into his web of deceit papers and other media. From where they can be infected with the viral memes that infect the rest of his rags. It's a very deliberate strategy and a very effective one. Hence the attack dogs guarding the gates who bite when his hermetically-sealed 'gated' media community's facade is threatened and a breach of the walls around his empire occurs. Thus there's not a lot we can do about it as he has honed defence of his empire to a fine art. He does not respond to sweet reason, sour ols buzzard that he is, and the truth doesn't bother him in the Post Modernist Post Truth world of 21st century politics and political propaganda.

Feral Skeleton

1/08/2011This article about Murdoch is relevant to the discussion: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/world/europe/26murdoch.html?_r=3&hp=&pagewanted=all

Lyn

2/08/2011 [b]TODAY’S LINKS[/b] JohnQuiggin Just scored a full length hit piece in the Murdoch press. Maybe I should change the password to my voicemail! http://bit.ly/oELXTg [i]An economist who is good in theory but on the far left in practice , Michael Stutchbury, The Australian[/i] Quiggin also doesn't seem to grasp the nature of journalism and newspapers, such as with his claim that News Limited has run "blatantly fact-free political campaigns" on climate change and Labor's fiscal stimulus. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/an-economist-who-is-good-in-theory-but-on-the-far-left-in-practice/story-e6frg9if-1226106222827 [i]Media, politicians and an unspoken ethical void, Mungo MacCallum, The Drum[/i] The Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik did not even give Jones a mention in his list of political mentors; he preferred far more respectable sources, such as John Howard and Cardinal George Pell. He may have been a homicidal maniac, but he wasn't completely silly http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2819580.html [i]Man of Clay, Neil Cook, The Bannerman[/i] His entire campaign of ‘NO’ is based on telling lies. Lies about carbon dioxide, asylum seekers, corporate taxation, mining & resources, social security. In fact much of what he utters lately is in direct contravention to previously stated stances. http://www.waddayano.org/blog/2010/12/ [i]Keeping up with the Jones’ Barry Everingham, Independent Australia[/i] Flint, so proper, so perfect, so prissy, should remind his busom buddy that the woman Jones was degrading is Her Majesty’s Australian Prime Minister. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/republic/keeping-up-with-the-joneses/ [i]Hacking Australian Politicians: Malcolm, Julia, Tony and Others, Peter, Aussie Views News[/i] Tony was unimpressed I can tell you. Threatened to turn the whole thing into a debate on the Queen and the old country and all of that. Well the guy in the pub thought that was so stupid he couldn’t help himself. And said so out loud. Whoops http://www.aussieviewsnews.com/2011/08/01/hacking-australia-politicians/ [i]Carbon cops run amok in a world of spin, Bernard Keane, Crikey[/i] the Coalition climate change policy appears thus to be to buy tonnes of something that has no weight, with no one to check whether anything has been purchased at all, and the ACCC is not to prevent businessesfrom falsely claiming it has increased their prices, using powers the Coalition happily voted for. http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/08/01/carbon-cops-run-amok-in-a-world-of-spin/ [i]What about the ethics of climate change reporting, Rooted[/i] The Australian has played a role in the change in those percentages and needs to adjust its policy. Confirming News Limited’s journalists’ familiarity with the corporation’s code of ethics is all well and good, it’s the ethics themselves, when it comes to climate change reporting, that I’m truly worried about. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/rooted/2011/08/01/what-about-the-ethics-of-climate-change-reporting/ [i]Liars and unprincipled opportunists v risk managers and a positive vision, Brian, Larvatus Prodeo[/i] The Australian Food and Grocery Council has been running a campaign, amplified by Abbott, that the cost of groceries will go up across the board. Treasurymodelling, according to Greg Combet and The Climate Institute says the cost will be 80 cents per week. http://larvatusprodeo.net/2011/08/01/liars-and-unprincipled-opportunists-v-risk-managers-and-a-positive-vision/ [i]Rundle: debt deal the ideal compromise — it pleases no-one, Guy Rundle, Crikey[/i] For the writers of Counterpunch, this is really what Obama wanted to do all along — he’s a creatureof Wall Street, dominated by Goldman Sachs alumni, secretly in league with a Republican agenda http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/08/01/rundle-debt-deal-the-ideal-compromise-it-pleases-no-one/ [i]Breaching confidence: do we need a privacy tort?, Megan Richardson, The Conversation[/i] In an article published in the Australian, Former High Court judge Michael Kirby points out that privacy may be a human right but so equally is freedomof speech and the press. Rather than giving either http://theconversation.edu.au/breaching-confidence-do-we-need-a-privacy-tort-2477 [i]Defending the need for a media inquiry , Gary Sauer-Thompson, Public Opinion[/i] In More Regulation Won't Fix The Media at New Matilda Michael Davis argues against media regulation--- that is, regulation of journalistic ethics to ensure a greater right to privacy, or for tighter control of newspaper ownership-- to ensure greater diversity. http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2011/08/defending-the-n.php#more [i]Malaysian deal a test for us, not for the Government, The Conscience Vote[/i] We’re going to intercept 800 people on boats, do some quick-and-dirty health checks, put them on planes and send them to Malaysia within 72 hours.In return, we’ll get 4000 confirmed refugees from http://consciencevote.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/malaysian-deal-a-test-for-us-not-for-the-government/ [i]The Hidden Cost Of War, Terry Friel, New Matilda[/i] shattered lives, shattered families and shattered communities dealing with drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and all the violence and dysfunction that are the often misunderstood and misdiagnosed aftermath of war. Statistically, about 40 per cent of Afghanistan veterans will suffer Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), http://newmatilda.com/2011/07/29/hidden-cost-war [i]Tony Abbott takes time out, Min, Café Whispers[/i] First impression is “don’t hurry back Tony”. Second impression is that this will be interesting – I wonder how much the Hon J. Bishop knows about the science of climate change.And then we have Warren http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/ [i]Questions without notice, David Horton, the Watermelon Blog[/i] Let us test your knowledge of the week’s events with a few simple questions. http://davidhortonsblog.com/ [i]DIDO –MIMO onsteroids, David Havytt, Anything Goes[/i] I'm prepared to place a bet that Australia's NBN on its existing timetable will be completed before the first DIDO service sees the light of day. At which point our very insatiable desire for bandwidth wherever we are will see the ability to use wireless ,http://davidhavyatt.blogspot.com/ [i]DIDO’ Tech From QuickTime Creator Could Revolutionise Wireless Broadband, Danny Allen, Gizmodo[/i] Malcolm Turnbull reckons so (surprise!), telling the Australian that it could challenge the government’s wisdom on fibre. But the reality is that the tech, which also claims sub-millisecond latency from kilometres away, is at least 10 years off before it even comesclose http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/08/dido-tech-from-quicktime-creator-could-revolutionise-wireless-broadband/ [b]Newspapers[/b] [i]Watch what you say, Blender, Courier Mail [/i] Sally Jackson of The Oz says sites like The ABC’s The Drum and News Limited’s The Punch don’t like the anonymity they have been giving commenters, a feature most use for outright abuse and slander http://blenderblog.com.au/2011/08/watch-what-you-say/

Lyn

2/08/2011Good Morning Ad I have listed Michael Stutchbury's article in the Australian first, so that you won't miss reading. I am anxious to see what you say about the article Ad, for me those journalists never cease to amaze. They are all very thin skinned and touchy over any criticism, but can dish it out daily to everyone else. Stutchbury says John Quiggin is far left??? Also Ad, the first entry is John Quiggin's tweet about the Stutchbury article, see how he says he better change his voice mail in other words John doesn't want to get hacked by Murdoch press. Cheers :):):):):)

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

psyclaw

2/08/2011The human species doesn't always quickly (or ever) realise the fact when they have dodged a bullet, when they have avoided pain. I'm sure this is the reason so many Australians are unappreciative of the government's and in particular Mr Swan's efforts in shielding us from the GFC. They just can't conceptualise what they would have experienced if that economic skill had not been available. But not me! Last night I was not subjected to a pain I've experienced for about the last 400 days, day after day, and I so enjoyed it. Yes, you guessed it.....Adventure Boy Abbott's daily quest to don a costume and perform some feat before a handpicked audience with all cameras trained, was missing from the nightly news. What a breath of fresh air it was! Hopefully some obscure European organisation will recognise his rare (very rare.....almost invisible) talents and offer him a job with a big mansion as part of a huge package. He can then write to an Aussie bush carver to hack him out a sign "The Lodge", nail it to the front fence, and settle down in Europe as an ex-pat, satisfied that he now has the home he always wanted. I am slightly anxious though that tonight's news will show Adventure Boy landing a Qantas Airbus A380 at Rome airport, as he mumbles into his aviator's microphone something like "how will the great big new carbon tax reduce all the emissions that I'm creating as I land this plane?" or something equally stupid.

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Hi Lyn I'll take a close look at the Stutchbury article shortly. It sounds as if he's on the defensive - again. He has one of the thinnest skins at News Limited.

Feral Skeleton

2/08/2011Nasking, I think you'll love this(as will anyone else with a funnybone): http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2011/07/debt-ceiling-debate-seen-abroad?fsrc=scn%2Ftw%2Fte%2Fbl%2Fteapartyexplained

Feral Skeleton

2/08/2011psyclaw, I think there are some strong arm dictators in the Central Caucasus that are on shaky ground atm and so their country's may be needing a Vladimir Putin clone in the near future. ;-)

Feral Skeleton

2/08/2011Off for another day of impersonating a Mountain Goat in my local area so as to hand out Census forms to all and sundry. I am getting to see inside some really nice houses though. I thinhk I want to live here when I grow up. Oops, I already do. :D Have a good one,guys. :)

Lyn

2/08/2011Hi Ad Here is John Quiggin's own article, also other articles of extreme interest pertaining to your topic: [i]Meltdown at the Oz-Quiggin Edition, John Quiggin[/i] The blatantly fact-free political campaigns run by News Corporation on issues such as climate change and fiscal stimulus have created huge difficulties for the Labor government (the Obama Administration in the US has had similar problems). Dealings between governments and the press are constrained by a set of conventions based on the presumption that the press is supposed to present a more or less accurate report of the events they cover and that governments are obligated to treat the press as a group seeking to find and report the truth. When that ceases to be the case, as it has done with News Corporation, it is hard to know how to respond. http://johnquiggin.com/2011/08/02/meltdown-at-the-oz-quiggin-edition/#more-10043 [i]Kudos to John Quiggin, Tim Lambert , Deltoid[/i] Kudos to John Quiggin not for winning the 2011 Distinguished Fellow Award from The Economic Society of Australia (even though that's pretty impressive), but for winning the for winning the 2011 Distinguished glass jaw punching award, for his posts on the "mistakes, misleading headlines and outright lies" from The Australian. His prize is this lengthy article in The Australian by Michael Stutchbury on how Quiggin is a big commie. My favourite bit is this, where Stutchbury (who is economics editor at The Australian) denies that The Australian has been conducting a campaign against climate science. http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2011/08/kudos_to_john_quiggin.php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm [i]Quiggins vs Stutchbury, Joshua Gans, Core Economics[/i] [b]This exposes the frustration that many on the right have with Quiggin. He is smarter and better at this than they are[/b]. And in deciding to pick on News Ltd, he awakened that machine to darken his credentials as a public figure in this country. [b]We can now watch in amusement, like so many before his, as they desperately try to match him.[/b] http://economics.com.au/?p=7849 Some tweets: MrDenmoreMr Denmore Murdoch''s mobster hacks mount hit on respected economics professor @JohnQuiggin, but he's fought back http://t.co/jNO2TgW #notw 11 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply BernardKeaneBernard Keane Stutchbury brings a water pistol to a tank fight RT @joshgans: Quiggin vs Stutchbury http://economics.com.au/?p=7849 50 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply GrogsGamutGreg Jericho @1petermartin @JohnQuiggin oooh an "unedited blogger". How horrible. 1 hour agoFavoriteRetweetReply Article on another topic by Tim Dunlop He Said, He Said, Tim Dunlop, BSides This is taking he said/she said journalism to the next level! In one newspaper, on one morning, a single journalist runs two articles, one of which paints the debt-ceiling deal as a victory for President Obama and the other as a victory for his opponents. Who says The Australian isn't balanced? http://tjd.posterous.com/he-said-he-said Cheers :):):):)

Feral Skeleton

2/08/2011psyclaw, Due to the Stockholm Syndrome that Abbott has induced in our collective consciousness, just the mere mention of his name by you has induced horrible flashbacks to Tony riding with the 4 Horsemen of the Liberal Apocalypse, or whoever they were(certainly not the Men from Snowy River with the Man from Manly Beach, that's for sure. ;-) )

TalkTurkey

2/08/2011Good morning Swordsfolks, I'm on J****'s computer, mine is in similar circumstances to Kevin, Here's hoping all the best for both of them. I won't pray for you Kev, you'll have to make do with my heartfelt best wishes, dunno whether they work so well though. :) And I hope I can get this post off via this puter. I'm not clever see. Ad astra you never waver, you stay on focus all the time, and this time you had heaps of ammo. It feels like we're headed for a showdown somehow, and we need to strike while the iron's hot. Merdeoch's disgrace, Norway's horror, shockjockracy here and Tea Party there, incited hate demonstrations in our own relatively best-blessed homeland, we must not let the opportunities and examples slip by without sheeting home responsibility where it belongs, and in this country it rests primarily with the Coalons and the mass media, sadly not excepting *our* ABC. More despicable disingenuity from the MSM has it that we are [i]confecting[/i] rage against the hate media since Oslo, we don't need to confect it, nor has it only dated since then, anyone who has not read Ad astra's very first post back in 2008 knows that this is the very raison d'etre of the Political Sword. It was on the basis of that first essay that I first started writing here, and it is because The Sword has always been true to its quest, where the mass media has performed so perniciously, that I continue to write here, and honoured to have the opportunity I am too. I wish there were a few Government MPs in safe seats, capable of cunning linguistics, Bushfire Bill types or like that perhaps, who would make a name for themselves by always being right on the spot with really [i]biting[/i] comments, too glib for media hacks to ignore, with quick jibes and outrageous expressions . . . Keating, thou shouldst be with us in this day . . ! . . And Gough, when will thy like come again? - Never, Never! But an Eddie Ward would do fine, a lovable rogue with a lively wit, we gotta getta betta go-getter than any what we got. Wasn't that white-tied suckhole on Q&A last night nauseating! Peter whatsisname the Liberal can't cut the mustard, he got nothing to say. Ridout was almost reasonable, Nixon was great, the Crikey bloke I don't know but he was pretty good, but like the curate's egg a bit, better in some parts than others I thought. And Plibersek was pretty good too, but she could have used a lot more ginger in her delivery. I thought Christine Nixon was the standout really. Plibersek next. BTW Ad I meant to say at the time (Sunday) you asked if others had seen Lopsiders, I did, but so did Bushfire Bill on Poll Bludger, you might like to find his comment at the relevant time on Sunday. I should look for you but right now no time. Will J****'s computer be nice to me? Soon see.

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Hi Lyn I’ve now read Michael Stutchbury’s piece: [i] An economist who is good in theory but on the far left in practice[/i] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/an-economist-who-is-good-in-theory-but-on-the-far-left-in-practice/story-e6frg9if-1226106222827 Before I began, I was aware of the vastly different positions he and John Quiggin take on matters economic. Judging from what Stutchbury has written, he is anti-Keynesian. He opposed the Government’s stimulus package from the outset and still believes it was unnecessary, certainly to the extent the Government applied it. He talks like a free marketer with faith that the markets can be left sort out any fiscal problems that arise in an economy, a position however that is not consistent with the events that led up to the GFC. That disaster for the theory of free markets seems not to have diminished the faith of its adherents in this mechanism. On the other hand John Quiggin expresses his skepticism about many elements of the free market approach and believes in a Keynesian approach during downturns to stimulate the economy when the free market, that is private enterprise, goes into retreat. Quiggin also challenges a number of other economic theories in his book [i]Zombie Economics – How dead ideas still walk among us[/i] which I reviewed in [i]Joe Hockey should read John Quiggin’s Zombie Economics[/i] in April. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2011/04/11/Joe-Hockey-should-read-John-Quiggin’s-Zombie-Economics.aspx So as these two men are poles apart on economics and have had wars of words in the past, it is unsurprising that Stutchbury would leap on the opportunity to criticize Quiggin, especially as he has had the temerity to criticize News Limited and [i]The Australian[/i] in no uncertain terms. Quiggin has added his voice to the swelling number who believe that News Limited papers handle the truth carelessly and in a partisan way, so much so that ‘regime change’ appears to many to be part of News Limited’s agenda, something it vigorously denies. Some of Stutchbury’s statements are curious. Take this one: “[i]Like Stephen Conroy, Quiggin also doesn't seem to grasp the nature of journalism and newspapers, such as with his claim that News Limited has run "blatantly fact-free political campaigns" on climate change and Labor's fiscal stimulus.”[/i] Is Stutchbury saying that it IS in the nature of journalism and newspapers to run "blatantly fact-free political campaigns"? I suppose not, but his words suggest otherwise. No doubt this criticism by Quiggin stirred the combative Stutchbury to once again put pen to paper in vigorous defence of his beloved News Limited. Stutchbury’s last paragraph but one reads: “[i]Quiggin's coffee-sharpened mind can readily poke holes in the theoretical foundations of modern economics. But now he writes that Labor is no longer obliged to treat The Australian and other Murdoch newspapers as publications that seek to more or less report the truth of what they cover. So, as a first step, their corporate owner must be cut down to "a more manageable level".”[/i] Note Stutchbury’s language. Why does he use ‘coffee-sharpened mind’, if not to demean Quiggin? Shooting the messenger is always a good ploy. Why does he berate him for ‘readily poking holes in the theoretical foundations of modern economics’, as he did in [i]Zombie Economics[/i]? Probably because he disagrees with him? Presumably Stutchbury believes that copious coffee must have been a prerequisite for such a ridiculous exercise. But I guess what really stung Stutchbury was: “[i]Labor is no longer obliged to treat The Australian and other Murdoch newspapers as publications that seek to more or less report the truth of what they cover.”[/i] That was enough to raise the hairs on the Stutchbury neck. No doubt he penned his last paragraph believing he has fashioned a killer line, picking up on PM Gillard’s quip: “[i] As the PM ought to say to Quiggin and others calling for government to intimidate the press, don't write crap.”[/i] So he feels that there is a move to intimidate the press! Well, well. What an obscene idea - after all it’s the role of the press to intimidate, not vice versa. Judging from his appearances on [i]Insiders[/i] and by what he writes, Stutchbury has one of the thinnest skins among News Limited journalists. This piece reinforces that view. I will now read the other comments you provided at 9.17 am. It's a fascinating debate! Thank you for setting it running.

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Hi Lyn The extra tidbits are most interesting. Thank you. Stutchbury claims he was asked to write the piece, which may well be so, but judging from his past behaviour there would be no need to twist his arm too hard. He may regret writing his piece, under duress as he claims, as Quiggin's colleagues will be quick to defend him and at the same time call Stutchbury for what they believe him to be. Josua Gans writes in [i]Core Economics[/i]: "[i]I had always thought of Stutchbury as the sort of journalist who at least understands what the study of economics is all about but this profile reveals startling ignorance; the very same ignorance that conservative economists often display when trying to argue policy with John.”[/i] Gans' piece:[i]Quiggin vs Stutchbury[/i] is here: http://economics.com.au/?p=7849 Michael is no match for John, of which he will soon become aware. I’ll try again posting the link to my piece about [i]Zombie Economics[/i]: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2011/04/11/Joe-Hockey-should-read-John-Quiggin’s-Zombie-Economics.aspx

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Hi Lyn The link to my piece on [i]Zombie Economics[/i] refuses to work. If anyone is interested to read it, go to ‘Archive’ on the top menu and search for ‘Zombie’. The piece was posted on 11 April. The ‘Stutchbury article’ illustrates well the ‘biter bit’ theme of this piece. News Limited likes biting but not being bit, and if bitten will bite back even more savagely. BTW, note how News Limited’s defensive themes emerge: “[i]The newspaper wasn't so dishonest and partisan when it campaigned for a "yes" vote in the 1999 republic referendum, punctured Howard's boat children overboard claim, led the media pursuit of the AWB scandal and supported a vote for Kevin Rudd in 2007.”[/i] Be prepared to see these advanced time and again as evidence of News Limited’s ‘bipartisan’ approach to news! Also expect repeats of how bad the stimulus program was, how wasteful was the BER, and how dangerous and inefficient the HIP, despite evidence to the contrary, and how these misdemeanours 'deserved' the treatment meted out by News Limited. The biter is biting back, and will continue to the death.

nasking

2/08/2011Bravo! Ad astra. You've woven together a number of essential examples to prove beyond a doubt that News Ltd & parent co. New Corp have a "glass jaw". Not unlike Tony Abbott...the man who, like GW Bush, avoids every opportunity possible to be scrutinised & criticised by both the public (News Ltd. sponsored forums don't count in my book), his opposition and the more "balanced" media characters. Michael Stutchbury, who comes across as a closet "grizzle guts" to me (alongside Peter van Onselen), is yet another Murdoch empire poseur...defending the dark realm like some sallow-skinned vamp sycophant out of the 'Angel' series. My wife reckons he needs to eat some veges and get out in the sun. We know from experience that many of the News Ltd. "biters" can't handle a hot kitchen of scrutiny. They may seem "teflon" but in fact there impulsive, hot headed aggressivity towards others on various panels is a giveaway...these are people used to gettin' their way... like kids of wannabe toffs they impatiently talk over other panelists to sarcastically spew out bucketloads of tabloid rhetoric... "nanny state", "political correctness", "big government", "wasteful spending", "the bureaucracy"..."coming to Australia illegally in boats"... adding splodges of contempt for the government and splats of hyperbole...always attempting to manufacture puplic perception...reffering to government & schemes as "failed/failing", "catastrophic failure", "debacle", "wasteful", "incompetent", "unwieldy bureaucracy"... so the message gets out there, like something being pumped out by the Maoists on their Long Walk...or Stalin's supporters...or Fascists in Italy...or the you know who in 1920s Germany... and once the desperate messages are delivered (propaganda anyone?) comes the sardonic wit, occasional self-ridicule - plenty of News Ltd types are no better than yer average celebrity in that they are willing to undermine their own dignity in order to earn the dosh & the master's approval... the cynical display of humour is partially used to illicit sympathy and empathy from the gullible in the audience...tho sometimes the laughter in the audience is merely an expression of embarrassment that they've had to witness such vileness by a high profile character...relief that the grotesqueness is coming to an end. This all tends to leave the more discerning viewers w/ the sense they've been covered in crap - it's like some back alley sh*t fight after a drunken crowd leaves a bear and bull baiting event in the Shakespearean era. And once in awhile, the likes of Bolt, Ackerman, Stutchbury, Milne & Chris Kenny overreach...go above and beyond the call of Murdor...go ballistic Barnaby or petty Pyne style...or come across as so bleedin' obvious...they leave w/ both egg, and crap, on their mugs. The general public will wake up to them soon enuff. This is a small country. With a growing alternative media. As for the attacks on a decent & wide thinking bloke like John Quiggin...just goes to show how desperate they are to defend the dark realm and fulfill their anti-competitive, profiteering agenda. Rupert & his motley crew don't like competition. Nor criticism that might undermine the KERCHING. Superb truthtellin' Aa. Well done. N'

nasking

2/08/2011there impulsive = their impulsive

nasking

2/08/2011reffering = referring Sorry, I can be a real spelling & grammar slob sometimes...occasionally I return to pick up the mess. Cheers Feral re: link. I shall check it out after lunch. N'

Lyn

2/08/2011Hi Ad Thankyou so much for your 2 replies regarding John Quiggin, your opinion is a wonderful read Ad. John Quiggin is one of our favourite bloggers and a brilliant, beautiful mind. Haven't had a chance to get to The Health, Press conference by Julia Gillard yet, looks very interesting. Malcolm Farr got told by Julia he is posing a question purely on assumption, other questions were incredible : Malcolm Farr did post the below tweet though: Malcolm Farr by howespaul PM Gillard just did 53 minute presser, 17 questions, in PH. Can't remember when Tony Abbott last did something similar. 9 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply I am posting more comments and another article of interest for everyone on John Quiggin: [i]Another feather in cap for top economist, The University of Queensland[/i] [i]UQ's Professor John Quiggin has been named the 2011 Distinguished Fellow of the Economic Society of Australia[/i]. He has produced more than 1000 publications including six books and more than 200 refereed journal articles on topics ranging from the analysis of choice under uncertainty to the management of the water resources of the Murray Darling Basin. http://www.uq.edu.au/news/?article=23542 JohnQuiggin It was all worth it for "Quiggin's coffee-sharpened mind" #quiggingate 5 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply David Pope by MattCowgill [b]A measure of how far right the Oz now is that Prof Quiggin, the Economic Soc's 2011 Distinguished Fellow, could be attacked as "far left".[/b]2 hours agoFavoriteRetweetReply I will try to post a link to your post Ad: [i]Joe Hockey should read John Quiggin's Zombie Economics:[/i] Quiggin gives example after example showing the trickle down hypothesis is false, and caps this with a telling graph of household income distribution in the US from 1965 to 2005 that shows that those on the 95th percentile for income steadily improved their position by over fifty percent, while those on the 20th percentile and below were static John Quiggin’s Zombie Economics from cover to cover. [b]It is a goldmine of systematized information [/b]and references that would assist him to make more coherent and logically consistent statements about the economy in the future. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2011/04/11/Joe-Hockey-should-read-John-Quiggin’s-Zombie-Economics.aspx Cheers :):):):):)

Lyn

2/08/2011Hi Ad Sorry my link didn't work either, something funny there somewhere: Never mind you have told our readers how to find the article> Cheers:):):)

Jason

2/08/2011Julia Gillard hospital reform is 'biggest since Medicare' after states all agree http://www.news.com.au/national/julia-gillard-gets-hospital-reform-green-light/story-e6frfkvr-1226106447911 So says news LTD! What's the Bet the Coalition disagrees? Well it's an unfair question because the do! WA government finally agrees to health deal Major reform of state systems - $175b by 2030 Gillard dumped some proposals to get deal PRIME Minister Julia Gillard today delivered a national overhaul of the health system which differed markedly from the original plan Kevin Rudd launched 17 months ago. The agreement signed with the states will see an extra $19.8 billion spent on public hospitals through to 2020, and a total of $175 billion between now and 2030. States will not simply get lump sums of cash but will be paid according to the work done by hospitals. The more procedures a hospital does, the more funding it will get. Federal funding of hospitals, which was below 40 per cent in 2007, will rise to 45 per cent by 2014-15, and 50 per cent by 2017-18. The deal carried a pledge of accelerated emergency department treatment and dramatic cuts to elective surgery waiting lists. Funding will be accountable The flow of funds will be more transparent and the Government believes communities will be able to rate their local health outlet through My Hospital, an on-line scheme similar to My School. The Prime Minister today said the funding boost, agreed to by Labor and Liberal premiers, would allow for 2.9 million extra treatments in emergency wards, two million additional in-patient services including major surgery, and 19 million more out-patient consultations. The Prime Minister said no concessions had been made on the basic agreement with the states first agreed to in principle at a Council of Australian Government (COAG) in February, and negotiated up until today. “What was promised (in February) was reform, accountability, transparency, efficient price, more local control,'' Ms Gillard said. “What's been delivered? Precisely that.'' She said experts had advised the Government and states to aim for a target of 90 per cent of emergency department case being dealt with in four hours, as opposed to the original guarantee of 95 per cent. This was to account for such emergencies as drug over-doses which could require a patient to wait for longer than four hours in the department until drug effects wore off. The Government had also been advised to aim for 100 per cent of elective surgery requests being handled straight away, using private hospital beds, rather than the original objective of 95 per cent. It's different to Kevin's scheme The final overhaul matches most of the objectives outlined at the COAG meeting in February, but is a long way from the original reform proposals made in April last year by then Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Health sources today said some of Mr Rudd's aims had been unrealistic or would never be agreed to by the states. They said the difficulties from the COAG proposals had been sorted out by consultations with the states and the health industry, something not pursued by the previous Prime Minister. One example was Mr Rudd's plan to use a share of the states' GST money to help pay for hospitals. The Gillard government has rarely criticised the grand plans for their former leader, but today Ms Gillard came close to identifying a point of stark disagreement with him when she was Deputy Prime Minister. “When you look at the arrangements that then Prime Minister Kevin Rudd talked about, they had with them a set of transactions in relation to the Goods and Services Tax,'' she said. “That set of transactions was not agreed by state governments and in my estimation was never going to be agreed right around the nation. “So I have taken a different approach but at every step of the way I've held true to the reform agenda that makes a difference in the long term, and held true to the objectives that Australian patients want to see when they go to a hospital - less waiting timer, less waste, more local control - delivered through this agreement.'' Reaction to the plan The Opposition said there was no guarantee they would back legislation to implement the reforms agreed to by Labor and Liberal premiers. Health Minister Nicola Roxon said the Opposition would be "silly buggers'' to attempt to block them. However, Acting Opposition Leader Julie Bishop said the deal did not have "long-term, sustainable health and hospital reform'', and set the scene for a possible clash with premiers. "All that's happened is that Julia Gillard has provided the states with more money, but with no guarantee of any reforms at all,'' said Ms Bishop. "She's capitulated to the states. They've got everything they've asked for and the Federal Government have got nothing in return. All they are doing is providing more money, and not solving the problem.''

Gravel

2/08/2011Ad Astra This is another great article. A great tie in to the John Quiggin stoush. I am amazed every day how informative the online community is. It would be wonderful if many more people could get themselves informed online. All this lousy lying and misinformation would soon get the short shift from the general public and hasten the demise of the MSM, and allow only people with facts any time at all in their lives. Lyn lyn lyn lyn Your prolific links keep me tied to the computer more than I would like, but I don't want to miss any of them. Your pleasant surprise yesterday telling us abbott was on holidays was a huge smile of delight for me, it will be safe to watch tv news while he is away.

Lyn

2/08/2011Hi Jason Wow! You are fabulous thankyou so much for your post on Julia Gillard's Press conference on the new Health Policy, fantastic Jason. I see Joe on ABC 24 announced that Julie Bishop and Peter Dutton will do the reply to Julia's press conference Joe said: "Tony Abbott is on a bit of a holiday" wonder how a person in the workforce applies for a bit of a holiday, the Pay Office would say "what" how do we process a bit of a holiday. Julie Bishop was fresh from Tony Abbotts video conference with her on what to say. Julie had her tight fitting spiteful hat on, Joe described her as being feisty in other words: (quarrelsome, troublesome; difficult). Julie Bishop was more interested, without being asked, to condemn Carbon Tax and the Asylum Seekers which really points out that she is out of her depth on the Health Policy, or not interested. Here is a video of Bishop anyone who may have missed it. Worth a little watch even if only the first 2 seconds: http://www.aapone.com.au/SearchPreviewVideo.aspx?media_item_id=20110802000335572370 Here is Julia Gillard's press conference, recommeded viewing for 53 minutues: Gillard announces health funding overhaul, ABC 24 Prime Minister Julia Gillard has announced a revised agreement with the states and territories for a health reform deal, saying it will provide more local control and greater accountability. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-02/gillard-announces-health-funding-overhaul/2820972 Cheers:):):):):)

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011TT Thank you for your pertinent comments. I identify with your statement: “[i]It feels like we're headed for a showdown somehow, and we need to strike while the iron's hot. Merdeoch's disgrace, Norway's horror, shockjockracy here and Tea Party there, incited hate demonstrations in our own relatively best-blessed homeland, we must not let the opportunities and examples slip by without sheeting home responsibility where it belongs, and in this country it rests primarily with the Coalons and the mass media, sadly not excepting *our* ABC. 

More despicable disingenuity from the MSM has it that we are confecting rage against the hate media since Oslo, we don't need to confect it, nor has it only dated since then, anyone who has not read Ad astra's very first post back in 2008 knows that this is the very raison d'etre of the Political Sword. It was on the basis of that first essay that I first started writing here, and it is because The Sword has always been true to its quest, where the mass media has performed so perniciously, that I continue to write here, and honoured to have the opportunity I am too.”[/i] We must continue our fight against dishonesty in the media and the blatant political bias much of it exhibits. We can make a difference.

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Nasking Thank you for your comprehensive comments, which resonate with me. Commenting about Michael Stutchbury you said: “[i] We know from experience that many of the News Ltd. "biters" can't handle a hot kitchen of scrutiny. They may seem "teflon" but in fact their impulsive, hot headed aggressivity towards others on various panels is a giveaway...these are people used to gettin' their way... 

like kids of wannabe toffs they impatiently talk over other panelists to sarcastically spew out bucketloads of tabloid rhetoric... 

"nanny state", "political correctness", "big government", "wasteful spending", "the bureaucracy"..."coming to Australia illegally in boats...”[/i] How right you are. I too have noticed that many who espouse the extreme conservative view of the world adopt a bullying approach on TV panels, and in their writings. On [i]Insiders[/i] Andrew Bolt, Piers Akerman, Chris Kenny and Michael Stutchbury all take an aggressive, bullying approach, loudly over-talking other panellists and insisting on being heard. Last night on [i]Q&A[/i] it was Englishman Brendan O’Neill, editor of the online magazine [i]Spiked[/i], the guy in the black shirt and white tie, who was the bully, talking repeatedly over Tanya Plibersek, who was her usual calm logical self. What is it about these people? Is their behaviour a reflection of their political position, or is this a carefully considered strategy designed to intimidate those with opposing views? It resembles closely the technique of shock jocks here and overseas on Fox News, and that of Tea Party members who shout opponents down with their extreme rhetoric. It is probably a mix of innate aggression and a deliberate strategy. Even Tony Jones, who himself can be assertive and overbearing, found the strongly pro-Murdoch O’Neill hard to take and even harder to control. At least Stephen Mayne gave him as good as he gave by blasting the Murdoch empire like I’ve not heard before. O’Neill got little applause. Perhaps the public is waking up to the bullies, and tiring of them.

Lyn

2/08/2011Hi Ad On topic Ad: Julia Gillard to meet the Newspaper Editors today: [i]Prime Minister Julia Gillard will meet with newspaper editors today, Joe kelly, The Australian[/i] JULIA Gillard will meet with News Limited editors in Sydney today amid ongoing friction between her government and the media company. The Prime Minister said she accepted an invitation from News Limited chairman and chief executive John Hartigan to address a meeting of editors http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/prime-minister-julia-gillard-will-meet-with-newspaper-editors-today/story-fn59niix-1226106611691 Cheers :):):):)

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Hi Lyn Thank you for your further links, and mention of Julia Gillard’s press conference and Laurie Oakes' tweet. I think he is waking up to the contrast between the very substantial PM and the hollow LOTO. Thank you Jason for your report on the reaction to the health reform announcements. Predictably the Opposition can find nothing good to say about it, but affected groups have given it a tick. Of course they are never satisfied and want more, leading the ABC after a couple of positive headlines to start their 2 pm bulletin with ‘the Government is under pressure’ to do more. This is an historic deal that our PM has negotiated against opposition federally and in Liberal States, yet after a couple of positive ticks, out come the negatives. Who would be a politician?

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Folks I've got my mower back after repairs so I'm going out for a few hours to do some much needed mowing.

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Hi Lyn I hope PM Gillard socks it to the News Limited editors. It will be interesting to see how the meeting is reported.

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Hi Lyn Again thanks for your further information and links, which I will look at later – my Internet speed is so slow it will take time! Gravel Thank you for your kind comments. I’m glad you are enjoying the stoush. I must get out on the mower before the rain comes. I’ll be back later.

nasking

2/08/2011[quote]Last night on Q&A it was Englishman Brendan O’Neill, editor of the online magazine Spiked[/quote] Yea AA, a bit of a prat. Used alot of strawman arguments. When anyone from the "freedom of speech" uber alles lot decries the inquiry/investigations into phone hacking by pushing the alarmist barrows such as "this could undermine real journalistic investigations into corrupt practices by the elite" etc (paraphrasing) it reminds me of the hyperbolic claims that "gay marriage will lead to polygamous marriages and tolerance of bestiality" and so on. Drawing too long a bow for me. Computer & phone hacking of victims and their families, including the wiping of their messages, is just not on. They do not pass the "public interest" test. BTW, did I hear that PM Gillard is meeting w/ John Hartigan of News Ltd this arvo? The PM wants to be careful she is not caught up in a "gotya" situation...the conversation needs to be taped for public consumption...so she is not accused of doin' backdoor deals or being influenced by the Murdoch media, as is the case of a number of PMs in the UK who are now finding their feet bein' roasted at times durin' these inquiries. N'

nasking

2/08/2011[quote]The Prime Minister said she accepted an invitation from News Limited chairman and chief executive John Hartigan to address a meeting of editors [/quote] Ahhh, yer on top of it Lyn...good stuff. Peculiar eh? Seems to me that News Ltd is quite worried about an inquiry. N'

Lyn

2/08/2011Hi Nasking Once again your comments are delightful and informative. ummm yes the Editors meeting this afternoon, as Ad said be interesting to note how it is reported. Invitation, yes peculiar alright , you guessed it Nasking they are worried what is going to be covered in this pending inquiry. Ever since Hartigan was on the 7.30pm report they have been digging away day after day, having a shot at Julia Gillard, Stephen Conroy and Bob Brown, screaming there is no need for an inquiry, then I think they said, they were going to do teir own. Cheers :):):)

nasking

2/08/2011Feral, that vid 'Tea Party gives Boehner a headache' was hilarious. You certainly have to give the Tea Party credit for being so obstinate and myopic when it comes to the debt issue that they were able to prevent the "passionate as an obese donkey in pasture" Democratic party leaders from getting any tax reforms... but there is something worrying about a group of people who are blind to the fact that they have just helped strip the engine from the American economy (similar to an analogy used by Arrianna Huffington)... or frankly don't give a stuff because they have grand designs to remake America and getting rid of Obama is part of that plan...and if allowing their fellow workers & businesspersons to become casualties in the short-term for vague, utopic goals then so be it...it gets ya wonderin' about how far this radical lot are willing to go. I guess there is one other positive...if America ever gets into a war I guess they know who to call on if they need their own version of Kamikazies. :) Seems to me the Tea Party wave needs to be met w/ a progressive/Greenish one... if the hard working progressives & worked to the bone left leaning unionised workers these days can find the time to gather that the Tea Party types do...the Tea Partiers sure seem to have enuff time on their hands considerin' how few holidays Americans get...and how many say they are rushed off their feet w/ family responsibilities. N'

Lyn

2/08/2011Hi Ad The comments on Stutchbury's article are worth a quick browse: One sample: [quote]cck Posted at 12:58 AM Today [/quote] Why does The Australian have such thin skin? There is a lot of truth to Quiggin's claim that News Ltd has been economical with the truth when it comes to anti-Labor stories. The other day the Tele ran a story as if the carbon price was already implemented and Labor was about to impose congestion taxes, which was complete bunkum. On the morning of last year's Federal Election there was a NBN scare mongering headline - "$3000 to rewire house for NBN" (or similar). The basis for such a headline was extremely tenuous- it was based on if you wanted to run Ethernet cable around your house for multiple Gigabit ports. If you wanted to. Unlikely you would though with wireless n maxing out at 300Mbps. But the headline was still there to scare people, on the morning of the election no less. It's sneaky, it's unrepresentative, and it's bad for democracy. Don't think people don't see past The Australian's juvenile tactic of proclaiming to support one course of action in it's editorials while rubbishing it in the rest of the paper. It's transparent and lame. Comment 1 of 27 http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/an-economist-who-is-good-in-theory-but-on-the-far-left-in-practice/comments-e6frg9if-1226106222827 Cheers:):):):):):)

nasking

2/08/2011How's this for a cop out by Presidential candidate Mitt Romney? [quote]Bill Burton, President Obama's former mouthpiece who's now at PrioritiesUSA, one of the outside Democratic groups, hits the press with an afternoon memo bracketing Mitt Romney's new-found position on the debt ceiling debate as too little, too late: "While Romney has been consistent in constantly changing his positions to suit the political winds, even his opponents thought that perhaps this crisis would be the time when he finally stood for something other than the politics of convenience. "At a moment that calls for courage and leadership, Romney has buckled to the furthest right wing of the Republican Party, undermined John Boehner and Mitch McConnell and given aid and comfort to those who prefer default over compromise. "A man who claims strength in his ability to lead our nation's economy would let it default for the first time in its history. Do his supporters on Wall Street and at Bain Capital know that their candidate would allow the United States of America to stop paying its obligations? "At best his capitulation is a phony concession to extremist members of the Republican Party. At worst it is proof positive that Mitt Romney will say or do anything to win this nomination despite the consequences for the country he is running to lead. "Though he claims to support cut, cap and balance, Romney's real position is better described as wait, waffle and wimp-out. [/quote] http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60412.html Furthermore: [quote]WASHINGTON (AP) — A new "super" political action committee supportive of former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney has raised more than $12 million, drawing on big-dollar donations to help the former Republican governor in his bid for the White House. The Restore Our Future super PAC includes $100,000 apiece from corporations like Utah-based Eli Publishing Inc., and wealthy donors like John Paulson, founder of the New York-based Paulson & Co. hedge fund.[/quote] Who is John Paulson? you may ask: John Paulson and the Greatest Pump and Short Fraud Ever Posted on 20 January 2010 by Mark Mitchell [quote]...As Fiderer explains, Paulson asked the banks to create those CDOs “so that they could be sold to some suckers at close to par. That way, Paulson’s hedge fund could approach some other sucker who would sell an insurance policy, or credit default swap, on the newly minted CDOs. Bear, Deutsche and Goldman knew perfectly well what Paulson’s motivation was. He made no secret of his belief that the CDOs subordinate claims on the mortgage collateral were close to worthless. By the time others have figured out the fatal flaws in these securities which had been ignored by the rating agencies, Paulson could collect up to $5 billion. “Paulson not only initiated these transactions, he also specified the terms he wanted, identifying which mortgages would be stuffed into the CDOs, and how the CDOs should be structured. Within the overall framework set by Paulson’s team, banks and investors were allowed to do some minor tweaking.” It is not clear which banks ultimately participated in Paulson’s scam, but Fiderer quotes Bear Stearns trader Scott Eichel as saying that his bank refused. “It didn’t pass the ethics standards;” Eichel said, “it was a reputation issue and it didn’t pass our moral compass. We didn’t think we could sell deals that someone was shorting on the other side.” Bear Stearns’ moral compass was usually pointed towards the darker regions, but perhaps this is why Paulson subsequently became one of the more eager short sellers of Bear Stearns’ stock.[/quote] http://www.deepcapture.com/john-paulson-and-the-greatest-pump-and-short-fraud-ever/ and: [quote]The SEC’s case focuses on a particular Goldman Sachs’ product named “Abacus 2007-AC1”. This product enabled Paulson & Co. Inc., a hedge fund headed by John Paulson, to make $1 billion betting against the US mortgage market. Paulson paid Goldman Sachs $15 million to create and market Abacus. The specific rules Goldman Sachs is accused of violating are: 17(a) of the Securities Act 1933, section 10(b) of the Securities Act 1934 and Exchange Act Rule 10b-5. [32] The SEC is claiming Goldman Sachs made “materially misleading statements and omissions” in its marketing of Abacus to investors, failing to inform them that Paulson’s hedge fund had “played a significant role” in choosing the subprime mortgage-backed securities underlying this CDO and that Paulson had an incentive to pick securities that would probably decline in value. Nine months after Abacus 2007-AC1 was sold to investors, 99 percent of the underlying mortgage securities had been downgraded. Abacus investors lost over $1 billion and Paulson made $1 billion from derivative side bets that Abacus would decline . [/quote] http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Goldman_Sachs Oh, what a tangled web these hedge fund guys weave in their fog of finance: Revolving Door at S.E.C. Is Hurdle to Crisis Cleanup By ANDREW ROSS SORKIN NY Times, 1st Aug, 2011: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/revolving-door-at-s-e-c-is-hurdle-to-crisis-cleanup/ Interesting supporters there Mitt. N'

nasking

2/08/2011[quote]Ever since Hartigan was on the 7.30pm report they have been digging away day after day, having a shot at Julia Gillard, Stephen Conroy and Bob Brown, screaming there is no need for an inquiry, then I think they said, they were going to do their own. [/quote] Lyn, I wasn't surprised that Hartigan was offering up an "inside job" once the phone hacking inquiry got hot...seeing how James Murdoch & the editors at News of the World had done a lame (giving the benefit of the doubt) job of internally investigating their own mess, I doubt Hartigan wanted to be accussed of same at a public inquiry if bad antics were revealed. Tho, I'm as confident that corporate internal investigations will turn up the real deal as Texan companies self-regulate pollution under governors like GW. Who knows, perhaps their clean & pure as snow. Their tabloid approach indicates such. :) N'

nasking

2/08/2011their = they're dang blast it! :) N'

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Hi Lyn, Nasking Thank you for your comments while I was mowing a large area of grass. I see Lyn the fall out from the Stutchbury article continues. It is entertaining. I wonder does he regret bowing to the request to write it? Your comments about Mitt Romney are interesting and informative Nasking. He seems like an Abbott clone, or vice versa.

Lyn

2/08/2011Hi Nasking [quote]Oh, what a tangled web these hedge fund guys weave in their fog of finance[/quote] Thankyou for more information and your links, you really are an education, I love it. [quote]Who knows, perhaps their clean & pure as snow. Their tabloid approach indicates such. [/quote] Like your confidence Nasking, but ummm I'm not so sure, anyway we will find out soon one way or another fact or fiction will be reported. their = they're Don't worry Nasking I did the same up above. funny that, same word different problem : [quote]they were going to do[/quote][b] teir [/b] You corrected it for me when you quoted , thankyou Nasking. Cheers :):):):)

nasking

2/08/2011Yer welcome Lyn & Aa...thnx for the enjoyable reads & useful links today, again. Hope Feral hasn't worn out all the shoe leather by way of the census job. I could send her some vegan shoes thumbs upped by Morrisey. :) Just joshin'. Cheers N'

Feral Skeleton

2/08/2011Nasking, Bleugh!!! I was alive at the beginning of the day, but now I am dead on my feet. Think about putting your treadmill at it's steepest incline and then walking a kilometre at a time, 50x over while negotiating some pretty hairy obstacles along the way, and you have a very rough idea what I have done today. Plus sorting out the paperwork at each residence. Still, I got to see HG Nelson's holiday home and a lot of other nice holiday homes besides UP SOME VERY STEEP DRIVEWAYS THEN UP SOME VERY STEEP SETS OF STAIRS IN THEIR YARDS THEN UP SOME STAIRS TO THEIR HOUSES! Their views were spectacular though. :) Anyway, thanks for the offer of some Vegan shoes to help me wend my way around the byways and back lanes of Wagstaffe and Pretty Beach, but I already have a pair, and they're great! I love them. However, as it's been pretty warm here with the High off the coast, I have been wearing out the plastic in my Crocs. :D Only one more day of Delivery (no decisions ;-) ) to go. Then next week I go back around again to pick them all up. :(

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Hi Lyn, Nasking, TT and others interested in the Stutchbury vs Quiggin battle of words

 You may be interested in what Bernard Keane had to say about this in [i]Crickey[/i] today

 [b]Stutchbury, Quiggin and the fallout from the 'recession of 2009'
[/b] [i]Crikey[/i] Canberra correspondent Bernard Keane writes: [i]

"The Australian’s Economics editor Michael Stutchbury has used an award to John Quiggin by the University of Queensland to launch an extraordinary personal attack on the economist. In a piece today, Stutchbury accused Quiggin - an "unedited blogger" - of "Green Left Weekly polemics" and, while being careful to say Quiggin "no doubt deserves his distinguished fellowship for his theoretical work", suggested it was a "puzzle" that the Economics Society chose to award him a distinguished fellowship. Quiggin responded briefly on his blog, including noting that Stutchbury had told him he had been directed to write the piece. Joshua Gans weighed in against Stutchbury at his blog.

 "What appears to stick in the News Ltd craw is that Quiggin has been vocal in pointing out its partisan and deceitful coverage of public policy on issues such as climate change. "The Australian supports putting a price on carbon over Tony Abbott's direct action," claimed Stutchbury. "But the journalistic default should include some scepticism over whether scientists can accurately predict the climate decades ahead." This is the too-cute-for-words figleaf employed to cover The Australian’s long war on climate science and its systematic promotion of climate denialism and rent-seeker media releases.

 "And then there’s stimulus spending. "The budget stimulus contained some of the worst government spending programs in the nation's history," opined Stutchbury. In fact The Australian’s hysterical BER coverage has been repeatedly discredited as independent inquiries by the ANAO and the Orgill Review endorsed the program as having negligible complaints, supporting tens of thousands of jobs (albeit in the construction industry, routinely vilified by The Australian) and delivering much-needed infrastructure.

 "
But since Stutchbury raised stimulus, let’s examine his own performance on the GFC (out of good taste, we won’t cover one of the more alarming moments in his earlier editorial career).

 "Get over it. The Australian economy is in recession right now, even if all the statistical dots are yet to be joined up. The question now is how deep and how long," he declared in March 2009. "The answer is that the economy will contract further over 2009 and probably won’t get properly off the floor until 2010." 

"This "recession of 2009" as he termed it was only a few months after Stutchbury had actually urged Australians to save their stimulus handouts rather than spend them.

 "But having declared Australia was in for a long recession -- "the Rudd government’s quick efforts to pump-prime the economy with budget handouts and the Reserve Bank’s rapid interest rate cuts had no hope of resisting the full impact of the global crisis" -- just a few weeks later, in July 2009, he was demanding that the government wind back its stimulus. How did Stutchbury address that particular contradiction? Well, he claimed, it was all because exports to China had saved our bacon, and had nothing to do with stimulus – which people had spent rather put in the bank like Stutchbury wanted.

 "Alas, Stutchbury’s claims were in the process of being disproved even as he was writing -- the GDP figures for that quarter later showed exports making a trivial contribution to economic growth. In any event, the mining industry was laying off people in the thousands over the course of 2009.

 "But by that stage Stutchbury was all aboard the Coalition’s "wind back the stimulus" campaign on the basis that it had been too successful, rather than having no hope of resisting the full impact of the GFC.

 "Plainly, Stutchbury, even if he was directed to prepare an attack on Quiggin (the now-standard self-defence for News Ltd journalists writing rubbish), is proud of working for an "agenda-setting newspaper". The newspaper's agenda happens to be one of rank partisanship against the party in office. In launching an attack on Quiggin's credibility, Stutchbury has brought a water pistol to a gunfight."[/i]

Feral Skeleton

2/08/2011Has anyone else noticed that the Opposition don't have constructive criticism just bitchy denigration as their reply to everything that the Gillard government does? I was particularly disgusted to hear Peter Dutton's sleazy comments in response to the Prime Minister's Health deal with the States today. He said wtte that the States had got the Prime Minister down on her knees(and we all know what that is a slimy reference to), and begged them for a deal. Also that she capitulated entirely to them. I. Don't. Think. So. I also heard Barry O'Farrell on the radio driving home, and he couldn't say enough good things about the new deal. Which just goes to show what contemptible guttersnipes the federal Opposition are. I also just brought up ABC24 The Drum on my computer, and there was Peter Reith, returning like a bad penny, with that supercilious sneer on his face that I thought I had seen the last of. I wonder if he was criticising the Health deal, that when he was in government with Howard he didn't have a clue about how to solve this decades-long problem? The only thing Howard & Abbott did was 'Rob Peter to Pay Paul' as Abbott is fond of saying about just about anything economic, as it alludes to his 'lame,gay, churchy loserness'. They just shovelled money out of the Public system into the Private Health system. Which turned out to be no solution at all, of course. Still, they were good at spinning it their way and making the punters lap up their perverse ideological bent. :)

Casablanca

2/08/2011Just watching Channel 9 National News and 'Breaking News' is that the PM has just arrived at News Ltd in Sydney to have a bit of a Q & A session with execs. I look forward to hearing more. I hope that Ms Gillard takes it right up to them to keep them honest!

Lyn

2/08/2011Hi Ad How good of you, thankyou so much, I was busting to read Bernard's article and thought of signing up for a free trial, just so I could. Well looks to me like Stutchbury has dobbed himself in doesn't it. So they by his own admission are told what to write. Therefore the Pink Batts, Stimulus package, BER, Climate Change, last but most important the NBN. The Journalists are told to distort the facts, distort the headlines, distort everything that may be in favour of the Government. Stutchbury is crazy, see how lies ultimately become uncovered. [quote]Plainly, Stutchbury, even if he was directed to prepare an attack on Quiggin (the now-standard self-defence for News Ltd journalists writing rubbish), is proud of working for an "agenda-setting newspaper". [b]The newspaper's agenda happens to be one of rank partisanship against the party in office[/b]. In launching an attack on Quiggin's credibility, [b]Stutchbury has brought a water pistol to a gunfight."[/b][/quote] Thoroughly enjoyed the article thankyou again Ad, I feel there will be more to come. I haven't heard anything more on Julia Gillard's meeting with the editors yet. Cheers :):):):)

Lyn

2/08/2011Hi Casablanca Thanks for letting us know. I've been waiting and waiting to hear the reporting. If you hear anything I would be so pleased to hear, Cheers :):):):):)

2353

2/08/2011Somewhat specifically on this topic is ABC1's "The Gruen Transfer" which did a few election specials last year announced (via the TV Guide in the Brisvegas Sunday Mail) that they will be doing a few de-constructing media spin episodes this year.

nasking

2/08/2011[quote]Think about putting your treadmill at it's steepest incline and then walking a kilometre at a time, 50x over while negotiating some pretty hairy obstacles along the way, and you have a very rough idea what I have done today. [/quote] Feral, I hope yer gettin' good money for that effort. You've probably walked more in the past week than the entire team of News Ltd journos. Unless ya take into account walkin' to the local waterin' holes. Anyway, good on ya. It's a worthy cause. BTW, ABC's goin' in for even more overseas cheapo programming...and Arts Nation is bein' axed. http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/abc--to-cut-100-staff-and-several-shows-says-union-20110802-1i9dv.html How about axing some of the QLD news staff and bringing in some more "balanced" personnel? Whatever happened to Open University on tele? I guess I'm showin' my age. :) N'

Ad astra reply

2/08/2011Hi Lyn The Stutchbury episode gives us a glimpse into how the Murdoch outfit works. I wonder how Julia Gillard will manage her visit to News Limited editors? I hope she lays their partisan behaviour on the table. Tomorrow’s account of her visit will be fascinating to read. I’m giving it away for the day to watch TV. Goodnight.

Sue

2/08/2011I hope the PM's people record her address to the News Ltd editor it would be the only way to trust the reporting of it. On another issue ever since Hartigan stated that News were going to do a self audit, I felt it was fishy. Then reports from the UK that News International had been deleting 1000's of emails, makes you think of cover up. Maybe the same is happening here.

Feral Skeleton

2/08/2011Sue, You just can't trust anyone from News Ltd/Corp/International to tell the truth about anything anymore. What an indictment of the state of our press,huh?

NormanK

2/08/2011Ad astra Thanks for another thoughtful piece. The Murdoch Press will continue to lash out even until their last gasp. I don't expect that there will be any public reporting of what transpires between Julia Gillard and the News Ltd snakes. She said during her press conference today that the meeting was private. Let's hope we see more of this as a direct consequence of the encounter : [b]Tony Abbott makes a habit of flipping[/b] by Paul Syvret [quote]Tony Abbott the republican? Or just the cynical manipulator who grasps only at that which furthers his own political ambition - inconvenient truth, principle and intellectual rigour be damned along the way? It has to be one of the two following Abbott's reaction to news over the weekend that Conservative British Prime Minister David Cameron penned a letter to Julia Gillard praising her Government for its action on climate change.[/quote] http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/tony-abbott-makes-a-habit-of-flipping/story-e6freon6-1226106158058 [b]Abbott taking whinge lessons from the Poms[/b] by David Penberthy [quote]As one of Australia's pre-eminent forelock-tuggers for the royal family, there was something faintly hilarious in hearing Tony Abbott firing up about the cultural cringe over the weekend.[/quote] http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/abbott-taking-whinge-lessons-from-the-poms/story-e6frezz0-1226106179201

Casablanca

2/08/2011These two references to articles by Neil Ormerod would have been spot on for Ad Astra’s recent post on the spectre of Abbott as PM but as comments are now closed I mention them here. They resonate here because of FUD – Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt which Ormerod says ‘win out every time over a thoughtful, well-reasoned, generous position’. Clearly, Abbott learned his trade well when he was a journalist and has honed them as a politician. Ormerod calls Tony Abbott “the master of the FUD factor in the present debate over climate change and the carbon tax. First, sow the seeds of doubt — climate change may or may not be real: We can't conclusively say whether man-made carbon dioxide emissions are contributing to climate change. Then sow the seeds on uncertainty: There may even have been a slight decrease in global temperatures. And to cap it all play on people's fears: The proposed carbon tax [is] effectively an increase in the rate of GST. ‘Tony Abbott's FUD factor’. http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=27372 Last November, in ‘Tony Abbott's missing moral core’ Ormerod, who by the way is a Professor of Theology at Australian Catholic University, says ‘Much is made of Abbott’s Catholic faith, but it seems to me that the rule book he plays from has more in common with Machiavelli. Machiavelli famously concluded: Therefore it is necessary for a prince who wishes to maintain himself to learn how not to be good, and to use this knowledge and not use it according to the necessity of the case. In the end everything can be sacrificed to gain and maintain power.’ http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=23929 My reCAPTCHA is: further ormstake

Feral Skeleton

2/08/2011NormanK, Good to see you, I was wondering whether you had fallen off the edge of the flat earth that Tiny-minded Tony probably believes exists. :) Have you noticed the tenor of David Penberthy's articles changing since he shacked up with political sex goddess, Kate Ellis? I have. :D

Feral Skeleton

2/08/2011Casablanca, Thank you for the link. :) I wonder whether, one day, the weight of evidence against Tony Abbott's fitness for the highest office in the land, will weigh him down in the polls. However, as David Penberthy puts it, sadly, appropriately, Australians love a straight talker, and Abbott is one hell of a straight talker to them. It doesn't mean that what he says to the electorate is the truth, just that what he says mirrors their concerns well. Of course those concerns are generally not valid ones, and are fed by the professional motor mouths. Which leaves the country in a pretty pass, prepared to dump an effective Prime Minister for a mug lair.

Feral Skeleton

2/08/2011NormanK, On second thoughts, that Penberthy article wasn't so nice to the PM. Or, was it, if you compare it to those of the past? :)

Casablanca

2/08/2011Lyn, You may have seen the brief mention on Lateline of the PM's visit to News Ltd editor's meeting and the clip in which the PM stated that it was a private meeting. Not much disclosure there. I checked The Australian to see if there was a report of the meeting and only then found the heads up about the event which was posted around midday at http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/prime-minister-julia-gillard-will-meet-with-newspaper-editors-today/story-fn59niix-1226106611691. The Oz even had a nice photo of the PM! Could not find any mention in SMH, The Age, The Canberra Times or Crikey

D Mick Weir

2/08/2011Evening All, I haven't had anything even semi intelligent to add to the conversation until now. :) [i]It had been around a long time before the Radical Right discovered it–and its targets have ranged from “the international bankers” to Masons, Jesuits, and munitions makers. American politics has often been an arena for angry minds. In recent years we have seen angry minds at work mainly among extreme right-wingers, ...[/i] [b]The paranoid style in American politics[/b] By Richard Hofstadter From the November 1964 Harper’s Magazine. http://www.harpers.org/archive/1964/11/0014706 A Very interesting article. It seems [i]Everything old is new again[/i] Hat Tip: DA @ CT http://clubtroppo.com.au/2011/08/02/merv-bendle-and-the-paranoid-style/

Casablanca

2/08/2011NormanK David Penberthy at the Daily Tele doesn't seem to know that Abbott is a Pom, born in London. So it's silly to say that he is taking lessons in whinging from them.

D Mick Weir

3/08/2011Thanks Casablanca those Eureka Street links were well wort the read.

Lyn

3/08/2011 [b]TODAY’S LINKS[/b] [i]Meeting with the enemy: Gillard visits News Limited .. Nicole Chvastek, JohnFaine[/i] Greg Baxter denied the Murdoch stable is hostile to the Gillard government or campaigning for “regime change” insisting its newspapers are simply reflecting the opinion polls which loudly proclaim the dissatisfaction of voters. http://blogs.abc.net.au/victoria/2011/08/meeting-with-the-enemy-gillard-visits-news-limited-ken-lay-defends-christine-nixon-and-revisting-a-r.html [i]Australian Press Council,The Australian Press Council has today relaunched its website[/i]: responsible for promoting good standards of media practice, community access to information of public interest, and freedom of expression through the media.The Council is also the principal body with responsibility for responding to complaints about Australian newspapers, magazines and associated digital outlets. http://www.presscouncil.org.au/ [i]The State of debate in Australia highlighted, Tim Dunlop BSides[/i] The Australian's self-obsession, complete inability to engage in debate and instead resort to ad hominem, all-guns-blazing personal attack has seen them score a spectacular own goal. http://tjd.posterous.com/the-state-of-debate-in-australia-highlighted [i]An inquiry on bias? Let's maunder on and silence bleating politicians, Errol Simper, The Australian [/i] 98 per cent of journalists daily do their very best, sometimes in the face of an obdurate determination from politicians and officialdom to render their jobs far more difficult than is strictly necessary. Equally, the committee's report would, sensibly and justifiably, remind themedia that it's entirely unelected http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/an-inquiry-on-bias-lets-maunder-on-and-silence-bleating-politicians/story-e6frg9to-1226105535059 [i]Was The Media Fair to this Cop? Helen Lobato, UpstartThe former[/i] police commissioners’ claims that she was the victim of a sexist and fattist campaignare well grounded. Between the 7th and the 19th of April 2009, the press published over 110 articles about Nixon, some of which were old imageswhich emphasised her large body size. http://www.upstart.net.au/2011/08/02/was-the-media-fair-to-this-cop/ [i]We’re all doomed, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison[/i] News.com.au speculates on a potential interest rate rise to rein in inflation,They were leading this morning with the panicky headline that it wasA “PERFECT STORM” of disaster. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/08/02/were-all-doomed/#more-11220 [i]The Australian on privacy – well all be rooned, Peter Timmins, Open and Shut[/i] quoting peak industry bodies not convinced there is a problem and warning of increased costs, frivolous lawsuits and losses of large amounts of taxpayers money. Who knows,"Carbon tax linked to privacy plan" might not be far away] .http://foi-privacy.blogspot.com/2011/08/australian-on-privacy-well-all-be.html [i]Friends of the ABC want an inquiry into the ABC, Independent Australia[/i] Friends of the ABC, a lobby group designed to support and promote the role of the ABC as the national broadcaster, is outraged that the ABC is cutting its in-house production in favour of more outsourcing. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/media-2/friends-of-the-abc-wants-inquiry-into-the-abc/ [i]Brendan O’Neill’s revealing moment #Qanda #Notw, Kim, Larvatus Prodeo[/i] might well occur by way of public inquiry, about the danger the press Leviathan poses to democracy itself. That transcends questions, trite as they are, of ‘the future of journalism’ or the prevalence of the right wing noise machine. What it goes to is how we can protect ourselves from dying dinosaurs. http://larvatusprodeo.net/2011/08/02/brendan-oneills-revealing-moment-qanda-notw/ [i]Less is More. More or Less, Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] This allows some journalists in the Murdoch stable to attack the ABC as being leftist. This is aimed at lowering the ABC (minority views) audience with their more (majority views) on issues. They achieve this with the clever manipulation of POLLS which they run daily http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/08/02/less-is-more-more-or-less/ [i]Gillard announces health funding overhaul, ABC 24[/i] Prime Minister Julia Gillard has announced a revised agreement with the states and territories for a health reform deal, saying it will provide more local control and greater accountability. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-02/gillard-announces-health-funding-overhaul/2820972 [i]National Health Reform Agreement, Australian Government[/i] The implementation of Elective Surgery and Emergency Department targets aims to improve patient access to services through reducing waiting times whilst ensuring high quality and safe care. http://www.yourhealth.gov.au/internet/yourhealth/publishing.nsf/Content/nhra-justreleased [i]James Murdoch, remixed, Crikey[/i] Poet and Crikey reader Hal Judge presents James Murdoch’s oral evidence, edited (some may say hacked) for the purposes of brevity, illumination and prose … http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/08/02/crikey-says-james-murdoch-remixed/ [i]Back to the future, Jeff Sparrow[/i] the Tea Party protest movement drew a crowd of perhaps 75,000 to Washington the other day to protest Barack Obama as a fascist, communist Muslim. Slate records one demonstrator carrying a sign reading “Diversity Is A Disease”, a slogan that gives a pretty good idea of where these people are coming from. http://jeffsparrow.net/back-to-the-future/ [i]US Debt Ceiling Agreement: Rebublicans Win, the Rest of the World Looses, Peter,Aussie Views News[/i] “The world is badly misinterpreting the US debt crisis – it is not a sign of the weakness of US politics, but its strength.” So says Greg Sheridan of The Australian newspaper. Aussie Views News wrote two articles about Greg recently. In one he is described as bizarre and in the other as incredible. This time he is simply off the planet. http://www.aussieviewsnews.com/2011/08/02/us-debt-ceiling-agreement/ [i]Debt Ceiling Lifted But Something's Gotta Give, Ian McAuley, New Matilda[/i] The Republicans don’t seem to be interested in economic responsibility; their congressional stances have been driven by their lunatic right wing fringe and a desire to embarrass President Obama, even if this means damaging the nation’s economy — a large scale replication of Australian politics if you like. http://newmatilda.com/2011/08/02/debt-ceiling-lifted-somethings-gotta-give [i]NBN Co lists starting dates for new sites, Suzanne Tindal, ZNet[/i] Preliminary site works will begin in Armidale and Coffs Harbour this month, with blocks of around 3000 houses either adjacent to first release sites or in completely new areas being added to the network. Other sites will follow. http://www.zdnet.com.au/nbn-co-lists-starting-dates-for-new-sites-339319665.htm [i]The NBN is as useful as those newfangled Beta tapes, Sophie Mirabella, The Punch[/i] With perhaps this in mind, Labor is paying Telstra an extra $12 billion or so to rip up all their copper network so folks will have no alternativebut the NBN. Even the Beta extremists didn’t advocate the destruction of the all Super 8 films! http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/The-NBN-is-as-useful-as-those-newfangled-Beta-tapes/ [i]The Wireless paper that changes everything, Peter Martin[/i] Just occasionally something comes along that makes the previously "impossible" suddenly possible. Noise-cancelling headphones are one example http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/08/read-this-wireless-paper-that-changes.html [b]Newspapers[/b] [i]Murdoch puts conservative voices on Ten's soapbox , Amanda Meade, The Australian[/i] Ten sources say Rinehart has also been heard to complain about the alleged left-wing bias of Ten's popular 7PM Project and to decry Ten's appointment last year of George Negus, whom she believes is also left-wing. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/murdoch-puts-conservative-voices-on-tens-soapbox/story-e6frg996-1226105580487 [i]Tony Abbott makes a habit of flipping , Paul Syvret, Courier Mail[/i] TONY Abbott the republican? Or just the cynical manipulator who grasps only at that which furthers his own political ambition - inconvenient truth, principle and intellectual rigour be damned along the way? http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/tony-abbott-makes-a-habit-of-flipping/story-e6freon6-1226106158058

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Feral Skeleton

3/08/2011D Mick Weir, [quote]It seems Everything old is new again.[/quote] Well, they are Conservatives. :D

Lyn

3/08/2011Good Morning Ad Well it looks as though we are not going to find out much about the Hartigan meeting with Julia Gillard last night. Andrew Green on ABC24 reported they don't even know what was on the menu, he means the food menu, ummm now that's important. Thankyou to Casablanca for letting us know: [quote]I checked The Australian to see if there was a report of the meeting and only then found the heads up about the event which was posted around midday at www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-fn59niix-1226106611691. The Oz even had a nice photo of the PM! Could not find any mention in SMH, The Age, The Canberra Times or Crikey[/quote] Maybe we will gradually see a change in reporting do you think? Julie Bishop just reported the Government has awarded too much money to the hospitals, she said that yesterday in her reply. Sounds strange I wouldn't have thought the health system could ever get too much money. Cheers :):):):):):)

nasking

3/08/2011On ABC 24 Breakfast this morn, yet another example of a News Ltd employee demonstrating the "glass jaw" of that company...and tendency to get quite verbally aggressive when describing the competition & critics. On this occassion it was Alan Howe, executive editor, Herald and Weekly Times...Howe edited the Sunday Herald Sun from 1993. Eyes displaying both contempt & defensiveness, acid dripping from his words, Howe made a generally controlled yet venomous attack on ALP Federal Member Steve Gibbons who has called for a "media inquiry" describing him as "an underachieving backbencher"..."there's alot of small-minded people in parliament"... and Fairfax was described as "a very badly managed company". Apparently, the ALP should be grateful for News Ltd helping to usher in the 1972 Whitlam government. They weren't complaining then, according to Howe. Howe's a forthright opinionated fella, no probs w/ that. I've read thru a number of his articles and both agreed & disagreed w/ some of his frank assessments. But he demeens himself playing attack dog for his company. And, he doth protest too much methinks. This is not a witch hunt. This is about looking under the carpet of a media corporation that has spread its tentacles far & wide...and looks filthier by the day. [quote]New Arrest in British Hacking Scandal By JOHN F. BURNS Published: August 2, 2011 ...The police said only that a 71-year-old man had been taken into custody at a north London police station. But several British news organizations, including The Guardian newspaper and Sky TV, part of the Murdoch empire, identified the man as Stuart Kuttner, who resigned in 2009 as the newspaper’s managing editor. ...Two separate police inquiries are continuing, but the 10 individuals arrested before Mr. Kuttner have all been bailed until October, suggesting that that investigators see their efforts continuing at least until the fall. ...A police statement said that the man arrested on Tuesday, presumed to be Mr. Kuttner, was being questioned on suspicion of offenses under two sections of the criminal code, conspiring to intercept communications and contravention of the Prevention of Corruption Act. Those two sections were also invoked in the arrest last month of Rebekah Brooks, a former editor of the News of the World and chief executive of News International, the Murdoch newspaper subsidiary in Britain. Ms. Brooks became the highest-ranking casualty of the scandal when she resigned her News International post last month, after first vowing to lead the company’s fight against the allegations. In parliamentary testimony on July 19, she told lawmakers that payments to private investigators — part of the pattern of alleged phone-hacking at the News of the World while she was the paper’s editor — were the responsibility of the paper’s managing editor’s office. The payments and questions about who approved them and what they knew of the investigators’ activities, particularly phone-hacking, are a central part of the police investigation. The phone-hacking was first revealed with the arrest five years ago of the tabloid’s royalty correspondent, Clive Goodman, and a private investigator, Glenn Mulcaire, for hacking into the voicemail messages of Prince William, second-in-line to Britain’s throne. Mr. Goodman and Mr. Mulcaire, who both served prison terms, are the only individuals so far to have faced criminal prosecution in the affair. Ms. Brooks told the House of Commons select committee on culture, media and sport that private investigators had been employed by the tabloid for “purely legitimate” purposes during her time as editor from 2000 to 2003. She testified that “payments to private investigators would have gone through the managing editor’s office,” but that she had no recollection of ever having discussed individual payments. The Guardian, which has led Britain’s newspapers in its extensive investigations into the wrongdoing at the News of the World, said that Mr. Kuttner was suffering from “serious health problems” and had recently returned from treatment in the United States. In his career at the tabloid, first as deputy editor and later as managing editor, he often served as the principal spokesman and public representative of the newspaper.[/quote] more here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/world/europe/03hacking.html N'

nasking

3/08/2011MP Steve Gibbons site: http://www.stevegibbonsmp.com/achievements/ Make up yer own mind. I recall a number of UK Labor members bein' attacked in similar fashion as they called for inquiries. N'

D Mick Weir

3/08/2011Morning FS, [i]Touche[/i]

Feral Skeleton

3/08/2011Morning DMW, (K)

Gravel

3/08/2011Lyn Thanks again for your great links, more reading today, thank heavens I love ready eh! :-) No reporting today of the meeting with Limited News by Julia. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. As I don't read any of their stuff, unless our Lyn links to it of course, could someone who does watch and see if there is any change in their reporting. I've also given up on the ABC, I don't think they will change course any day soon. Casablaca Thanks for your great imput, it adds to many of the other new posters we are starting to see here.

Feral Skeleton

3/08/2011Julie Bishop is a sour old puss isn't she? I'm sure if you had had the Gillard government delivering less money to the States as a result of the Health and Hospitals deal she would have been kicking up a stink about that this morning too. So predictable but it's not funny because the Liberals have some of the best hack journalists in their corner writing their lines, day in, day out. Like Tony O'Leary. So all airheads like Bishop have to do is learn their lines every day and vomit them all over the airwaves as if they were original thought. Then have them reinforced by Opinionators like (insert name of your State's Verbal Vitriol specialist here).

Feral Skeleton

3/08/2011Nas, I reckon that Alan Howe character looked very harried, and it was only early morning. It can get that way after you've sold your soul to the devil and you are left constantly looking over your shoulder to see if he has decided that your time is up. I'm sure that these days, if that Brendan O'Neill bottle of pee is any indication, that there are plenty of raw recruits to the Conservvative journalistic editorial cause just salivating at the prospect of replacing tired old warhorses like Mr Howe.

Feral Skeleton

3/08/2011I hope this never comes to pass, but if reports I have been hearing today are to be believed we may well have have the scary prospect of an actual 'Children Overboard' incident on our horizon. That is, it is being said that the Indonesian People Smuggling network, faced with their money supply drying up and as a result of the government's changed policy, are encouraging potential boat boarders in that country to only send their children on the boats because they may have a greater chance of success in not being sent to Malaysia and thus becoming anchor babies in Australia for the rest of their families at a later date. Let me just say that I find this prospect a sad indictment of both the families who want to circumvent an orderly process via the UNHCR in order to obtain refuge in Australia by making the island hop from Indonesia to Australia, and who would, it seems, almost sacrifice their children to an unknown fate at sea in order to achieve that outcome, and also the People Smugglers, who are cynically manipulating the new system already.

TalkTurkey

3/08/2011Friends of the ABC are dismayed by the ABC Board's intention seriously to downgrade ABC Arts. Isn't there something in their charter about supporting aspects of our culture which need support, especially if other media access is limited or non-existent? Badly put I know, but I'm sure there's something of that nature . . . Meanwhile, if there is any good to come from the Oslo massacre of young Labor Party people, what it can only be is to smack the rancid Right about their hate-screaming mouths, to name and shame them and blame them for they are guilty guilty guilty of fomenting fury, and we must not let them forget it. Voices of hate they are. *J*U*L*I*A* is to be saluted for being prepared to beard News in its lair. I just hope she really laid it on the line. But why would I think otherwise? Just look at the set of her mouth! :)

nasking

3/08/2011YOU'VE GOT TO GET MAD Keith Olbermann, so effective in speaking out against the Bush Iraq fiasco when others were playing w/ themselves in the shadows, tells it as it is in regard to this recent dirty deal in CorpAmerica (a must watch): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/02/olbermann-debt-ceiling-special-comment-protests-obama_n_915957.html [quote]"Where is the outrage to come from?" he asked rhetorically. "From you! It will do no good to wait for the politicians to suddenly atone for their sins...it will do no good to wait for the media to suddenly remember its origins as the 'free press'...it will do no good to wait for the apolitical public to get a clue." He said that, without a protest movement, the "tide" that had brought the debt deal "will crush us, because those who created it are organized and unified and hell-bent. And the only response is to be organized and unified and hell-bent in return." He said the public "must find again the energy and the purpose of the 1960's and early 1970's and we must protest this deal and all the goddamn deals to come, in the streets."[/quote] It's time for Americans to WAKE UP...again. "We won't get fooled again"...hmmm...Tea Party w/ the Fox anyone? N'

nasking

3/08/2011[quote]I reckon that Alan Howe character looked very harried, and it was only early morning. [/quote] Feral, he left hand was doin' the palsy beat. What lies beneath at News Ltd? N'

nasking

3/08/2011[quote]Friends of the ABC are dismayed by the ABC Board's intention seriously to downgrade ABC Arts. Isn't there something in their charter about supporting aspects of our culture which need support, especially if other media access is limited or non-existent? [/quote] Talk Turkey, they'll axe arts shows...but seem to find money to fund shows like this: [quote]ABC1 comedy series At Home With Julia begins production [Mon 18/07/2011 12:58:33] By Staff reporter ABC1 comedy series At Home With Julia begins production in Sydney this week. The 4 x 30 minute narrative comedy is based on the relationship between prime minister Julia Gillard and her partner Tim Mathieson. Amanda Bishop (STC Wharf Revue, Double Take) appears as Julia, while Phil Lloyd (ABC2’s Review with Myles Barlow) appears as Tim. “They’re just like any other busy modern couple,” said executive producer/co-writer Rick Kalowski (Comedy Inc., The Late Shift). “Trying to balance their relationship with critical tasks like introducing taxes no-one voted for.”[/quote] http://if.com.au/2011/07/18/article/ABC1-comedy-series-At-Home-With-Julia-begins-production/EPIBDAOMRJ.html I noted they recently showed The Kennedys (TV miniseries)...ya might want to read about the controversy here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kennedys_(TV_miniseries) N'

nasking

3/08/2011Lyn, thnx for the brill links...I'm goin' thru them now...you certainly are a "treasure", as others have stated previously. Great to see Tim Dunlop givin' The Australian a serving, well- deserved considerin' the reductionist & lazy attack piece by Stutchbury on John Quiggin: [quote]The fact that The Australian, and journalist Michael Stutchbury, chose the moment of John being honoured as a distinguished fellow of the Economic Society of Australia as a moment to attack him in the most half-baked partisan terms imaginable says more about their over-weening pettiness than it does about Quiggin's achievements or standing. But it tells us more than that (as their over-weening pettiness was almost a given). It tells us that political debate in this country -- at least so far as it is carried out and led by our only national newspaper -- is a debased and pathetic thing. If it is beyond the conservative intelligentsia represented by The Australian to rise above childish invective, is it any wonder that so many people despair about our politics? ...Once again, The Australian's self-obsession, their complete inability to engage in debate and instead resort to ad , all-guns-blazing personal attack has seen them score a spectacular own goal. Unfortunately, they diminish us all with this sort of nonsense, poisoning the well of public debate and lowering serious discussion of matters of public importance to their own grubby level. And everybody knows it except them. Still, given the current state of their parent company it wouldn't surprise me if The Oz stopped publishing a long time before Quiggin's blog does.[/quote] http://tjd.posterous.com/the-state-of-debate-in-australia-highlighted Grrr by Tim...I like it. N'

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011Hi Lyn I caught the last part of Julia Gillard’s launch of Christine Nixon’s book [i]Fair Cop[/i]. Her words were sincere and thoughtful, honouring as she was a great woman in our society. Thank you again for your great set of links. I particularly enjoyed Tim Dunlop’s analysis of the Stutchbury article about John Quiggin. I thought these words were particularly apt. Thanks to Nasking for posting them on [i]TPS[/i].

nasking

3/08/2011Ad astra, cheers for that piece by Bernard Keane of Crikey...he sure took the verbal cane to Stutchbury. I like how he focused on Stutchbury's own record during the GFC...the contradictions in his analyses seem to demonstrate the master's obsession w/ promoting the Coalition stance on the stimulus rather than a consistent one by Stutchbury. Tell all those workers involved w/ the BER that it was the mining boom that helped us avoid recession...or the many retail workers who benefitted from the handouts. A load of trosh. ------------ We all suspect that more than a few influential righties woulda loved to see a long recession hit these shores...so once back in government they could bring in "austerity measures". Chop chop chop public service jobs & wages. Volunteerism anyone? These laissez-faire types hate regulation but seem to look the other way to avoid the casualties of their approach...ABC Learning left more than a few in its wake. And now Tony Abbott doesn't want carbon cops on the beat. Gimme a break! The corporate aristocracy are robbing the bank, filling their vaults...and fiddling. But what me worry? Who needs tough regulations & bodies w/ bite...when ya can watch the world sink slowly into the sea to the sounds of Requiem & Jesus Christ Superstar...right Tony? TONY CHRIST...SUPERSTAR...who in the world do you think you are? N'

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011Hi Lyn There will likely be no official report on Julia Gillard’s meeting with News Limited editors as they will have applied Clapham House rules of privacy. Of course that did not stop Michael Gawenda, ex editor of [i]The Age[/i] and of course a Fairfax man, from complaining on ABC 24 that she did not reveal the content of the discussion with the waiting media. Wouldn’t he love to expose what transpired with her meeting with his old media opponents! I’ll soon be watching Malcolm Turnbull’s NPC address on ABC 24.

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011NormanK Thank you for your kind comments and the links to the Syvret and Penberthy articles, both interesting reading. I get the impression that the media is gradually waking up to the lying weathervane. Yesterday there was Laurie Oakes and now these two. It has taken a long while. I hope that PM Gillard’s meeting with News Limited editors might bring about some amelioration of their long-standing attack on her and her Government, but we mustn’t expect that to happen quickly as that would appear too obvious to those who will be scanning their publications for signs of this.

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011D Mick Weir Your link to the Hofstadter piece made most interesting reading – thank you. As you say ‘Everything old is new again’.

NormanK

3/08/2011Ad astra Purely in the interest of the advancement of knowledge. :) It is the Chatham House Rule which should apply to the PM's private meeting with [i]News Ltd[/i] editors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_House_Rule It is yet another convention which is being put under strain by media houses who believe they have the right to 'get the story' at any cost. I was especially pleased to see Kim at [i]Larvatus Prodeo[/i] taking Brendon O'Neill to task over the completely anarchical comments he made on [i]Q&A[/i] this week (see Lyn's Links). If his comments are to be taken at face value he believes journalists are above the law and freedom of speech includes inciting hatred. What a horrible scary little man.

psyclaw

3/08/2011FS...... re your mention of Brendan o'neill on qanda. As usual I couldn't control my urge to point out to him what I and I think at least 50% of viewers think of him. So copy of my email to him after the show follows hence: Hi Brendan We watched you on Q and A last night.......never heard of you before. Your contribution was abhorrent....what an offensive bully you are. All other panellists sat and (painfully) listened when you spoke, whilst you boorishly overspoke them when it was their turn. Anyway, Stephen Mayne calmly "had you for dinner"...his calm replies to your nonsense were always effective. By the way, our PM is Ms Gillard or PM Gillard. Your crass, juvenile and loutish persona was epitomised by the insolent manner in which you referred to her. I had the good fortune to visit England recently. I am relieved that my experience there tells me that you are not typical of the very fine people we met wherever we went. Please do not visit Australia again. We have enough of our own home grown pricks. Very sincerely End quote. After re-reading this just now, I worry that perhaps I was in my words too kind to him.

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011FS ‘Sourpuss’ is an apt term to describe Julie Bishop. She cannot open her mouth without pouring scorn on Julia Gillard and repeating the Coalition lines [i]ad nauseam[/i], and was out this morning sarcastically asking about the PM’s meeting with News Limited editors. Do you have the Paul Howe link? I certainly hope that we don’t have ‘kids overboard’ incidents, but I would put nothing past the people smuggler big boys. I guess that is why we are seeing so much preparation for the arrival of the next boatload.

nasking

3/08/2011Could the rumblings in the US Democratic party lead to them replacing Obama next year? I doubt it...imagine the morale effect on many black voters. But then, American blacks don't seem to be doin' too well under Obama's leadership, nor did it under the Bush administration...I read recently that: [quote]white households now have more than 20 times the wealth of the average black household and 18 times more wealth than that of Latino household, according to a study released Monday by the Pew Research Center. The wealth gap between blacks and whites continues to grow, the study found, and is now the widest in 25 years. The study confirmed what many already knew — the “Great Recession” has wreaked havoc on the nation’s must vulnerable communities. Between 2005 and 2009, the “official” end of the recession, wealth in Hispanic households dropped 66 percent — the largest of any group — and 53 percent among black households. White households saw a 16-percent decline.[/quote] http://politic365.com/2011/07/27/whites-have-20-times-more-wealth-than-blacks-pew-study-shows/ It's yet another bloody disgraceful example of how ineffective the corporate-ridden America is when it comes to providing opportunity for ALL of its citizens. I was watching CBS news on SKY today and just about wept watching this: [quote]Lunchlady refuses to let kids go hungry in summer By Byron Pitts [/quote] http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/02/eveningnews/main20087172.shtml Obama too often seems to be missing in action... and seems more willing to bailout Wall Street & keep himself free of the stench that comes from the latest crap deal done in Washington... than truly helping those who voted for him. Who HOPED. At this point, I'm so frustrated w/ him I'd put his wife Michelle in charge if I had the chance...she seems to be far more in tune w/ the needs of the future generations than her too oft distracted, fund raising husband. It seems progressives in California are looking for a 2012 candidate to replace him... perhaps it's time Obama got onto the real streets and into the real neighborhoods...instead of worrying about the bi-polar suits in Wall Street & K Street?: [quote]Obama and the 2012 Elections Primary Lessons By VIJAY PRASHAD On July 30, while this "agreement" was being discussed, the Progressive Caucus of the California Democratic Party (CDP) passed a resolution in support of a primary challenge to Obama. The meeting of the Executive Board of the CDP took place in Anaheim, not far from Disneyland, and it was in one corner of that larger meeting that the Progressives took their stand. As far as I know, this is the first officialindication of a part of the Democratic Party calling for a primary challenge to Obama. [/quote] In this day & age ANYTHING can happen... enhanced by the sense of many that the Tea Party antics may have just helped America on its way to the 2nd Great Depression. More tornadoes, scorching heatwaves, floods, cyclones & twisters...more greed for gain stupidity...more ignoring the need for a real cleaner energy change...and it won't be long. Whatever happened to the "urgency of now"? N'

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011Nasking You have been very active today. You must be feeling a lot better. Thank you for all your comments and links. Did you watch Malcolm Turnbull at the NPC today? As expected, he spoke with authority about the NBN and his alternative plan, but only those with technical knowledge and an understanding of the economics of communications would be able to analyse what he said and establish its veracity. As usual, he was not as fluent answering questions, but some were awful. I didn’t count, but as I recall it, there were only a small handful of questions about the NBN, the most penetrating being from the ever-sensible Lenore Taylor; another was from Andrew Probyn, and there was one from a Canberra journalist about a local issue. Others were about climate change, the weightless gas CO2, and a particularly stupid question from the usually sensible Paul Bongiorno, the exact wording of which I can’t recall. Does anyone else remember? I thought to myself what a pathetic bunch of journos we have got when only a few feel the need or have the capacity to ask questions about the important issue of the NBN and the Coalition’s alternative, preferring instead to wander into more exciting and newsworthy areas. Frankly, I doubt if many had prepared a suitable question, or could generate one from what Turnbull said. Most seemed too lazy or inept to even dream up a relevant question. We’ll have to wait for an analysis of experts such as Paul Budde.

Lyn

3/08/2011Hi Ad Well what did you think of Sir Eloquence (How Now Brown Cow)? addressing the National Press Club on the NBN. This is my humble report: Reading direct from notes the whole half hour New Zealand prime example he did mention the boadband speed as adequate in Melbourne NBN is a patchwork system, but later when questioned about the Coalition Policy he said one size does not fit all. Voice monotone and lacking expression. Gave the appearance of somebody being where he doesn't want to be. Answers to questions: I am not the Industrial Relations MP , Peter Reith can speak for himself. He will be voting with the Coalition and will not be crossing the floor NBN Pricing: They have to play the cards they are dealt, they won't know until they are elected. His principles will be his guide. Is CO2 weightless: No it is about the same weight as water Will you repeal the Carbon Tax: It is coalition policy to respect the science, ignoring the CSIRO is silly and not common sense. Asked about moderate position: Liberal Party is a broad church, elections are always won from the centre. Savings from the NBN: Joe Hockey is handling and it is a work in progress. "BUT" it will cost the Coalition less, they will borrow less. Ad here is a professional report for you: [i]Coalition proposes new broadband policy, Renai LeMay, Technology Spectator[/i] In a speech given to the National Press Club in Canberra today (the full text of which is available online), The policy announced today appears to have gone further than that existing policy, which did not feature the restructure of Telstra or incentives for wholesale providers to build competitive broadband access infrastructure in suburban areas. However, it remains unclear what extent of funding Mr Turnbull’s policy announced today would require. http://technologyspectator.com.au/nbn-buzz/coalition-proposes-new-broadband-policy Cheers :):):):)

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011NormanK Thank you for the Wikipedia link to the Chatham House Rules. It seems that the media thinks it can ignore them to get a good story, just as Brendan O’Neill believes the media can break the law to expose a misdemeanour.

Lyn

3/08/2011Hi Ad My impression of Mr Turnbull's speech crossed with yours. I can't repeat the exact wording of Paul Bongiorno, but his question was about some article somebody wrote or said about Turnbull being vain and irrelevant, Turnbull's answer was he doesn't agree. That's all it was yes and as you say stupid. Cheers :):):)

nasking

3/08/2011[quote]You have been very active today. You must be feeling a lot better.[/quote] Aa, slightly better. The treadmill is helping, providing I don't overdo it. I've been focusing on America quite a bit because I think they are at a fork in the road. Take the wrong path, which they seem to be doing, and their economic malaise could lead to waves on the international relations & global economic front colliding into the arrogance of some Arab & Jewish leaders, and the weakness of some EU countries, add the weak UK, creating turmoil that will wash across every nation, regardless of the strong domestic economies of China, Brazil, Australia, Germany & Canada. I was a keen observer of socio-economics & politics prior to the GFC...and warned many of my overseas & Oz friends of what was coming before it hit. I'm very worried at this point. Far too much hidden debt across the globe, overvalued assets, poor responses to debt to GDP problems and investment bank/private equity group plundering...and sabotaging of stimulus programs, long-term social equity programs...and alternative energy schemes. It's time for some of the ultra rich who have a decent bone left in their bodies to get socially active. Form a "concerned" group. Tell it as it is. Not Forbes, Fox News based. It's worth pointing out that the Howard government seemed keen to take us down the American way...I doubt an Abbott government would be much different. [quote]Did you watch Malcolm Turnbull at the NPC today? [/quote] I'll try to grab it tonite on ABC. Thnx for yer useful feedback. I reckon he's a Goldman Sachs puppet. Morally bankrupt. Like too many American pollies. My last offering today re: America [quote]Tea Party’s War on America By JOE NOCERA Published: August 1, 2011 ...Inflicting more pain on their countrymen doesn’t much bother the Tea Party Republicans, as they’ve repeatedly proved. What is astonishing is that both the president and House speaker are claiming that the deal will help the economy. Do they really expect us to buy that? We’ve all heard what happened in 1937 when Franklin Roosevelt, believing the Depression was over, tried to rein in federal spending. Cutting spending spiraled the country right back into the Great Depression, where it stayed until the arrival of the stimulus package known as World War II. That’s the path we’re now on. Our enemies could not have designed a better plan to weaken the American economy than this debt-ceiling deal. One thing Roosevelt did right during the Depression was legislate into being a social safety net to soften the blows that a free-market economy can mete out in tough times. During this recession, it’s as if the government is going out of its way to make sure the blows are even more severe than they have to be. The debt-ceiling debate reflects a harsher, less empathetic America. It’s sad to see. My own view is that Obama should have played the 14th Amendment card, using its language about “the validity of the public debt” to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling. Yes, he would have infuriated the Republicans, but so what? They already view him as the Antichrist. Legal scholars believe that Congress would not have been able to sue to overturn his decision. Inexplicably, he chose instead a course of action that maximized the leverage of the Republican extremists. Assuming the Senate passes the bill on Tuesday, the debt ceiling will be a nonissue until after the next election. But the debilitating deficit battles are by no means over. Thanks to this deal, a newly formed supercommittee of Congress is supposed to target another $1.2 trillion to $1.5 trillion in cuts by late November. If those cuts don’t become law by Dec. 23, automatic across-the-board cuts will be imposed, including deep reductions in defense spending. As has been explained ad nauseam, the threat of defense cuts is supposed to give the Republicans an incentive to play fair with the Democrats in the negotiations. But with our soldiers still fighting in Afghanistan, which side is going to blink if the proposed cuts threaten to damage national security? Just as they did with the much-loathed bank bailout, which most Republicans spurned even though financial calamity loomed, the Democrats will do the responsible thing. Apparently, that’s their problem. For now, the Tea Party Republicans can put aside their suicide vests. But rest assured: They’ll have them on again soon enough. After all, they’ve gotten so much encouragement.[/quote] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/opinion/the-tea-partys-war-on-america.html?src=me&ref=general I reckon that the military industrial complex will always trump the needs of the poor & struggling in America. Let's face it, many of them can always be conned into participating in bogus wars. However, they can't eat a flag. N'

Michael

3/08/2011In the absence of he of the tiny budgie... Bad Malcolm On the very same day as a report indicated that the Internet and activity undertaken utilising it is worth as much to the Australian economy as the country's iron ore trade, http://www.smh.com.au/business/booming-internet-hits-80-billion-20110802-1i9zn.html Bad Malcolm Turnbull at the National Press Club went on again about how little Australians would find to actually do with the NBN's greater speed and volume when interacting with the Net. I think Malcolm lacks imagination. Or is he simply playing the techno-fool so as to stay on a level with his "I'm no tech-head, Kerrie" boss?

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011Hi Lyn I’m still going through your links. In the light of the contemporary discussion about the NBN, [i]TPS[/i] visitors might be interested in a link from Peter Martin’s website to a paper on [i]DIDO Distributed Input Distributed Output) Wireless Technology[/i] http://www.scribd.com/doc/61403291/Distributed-Input-Distributed-Output-Wireless-Technology It describes experimental wireless technology that is said to overcome the problems of slow access and speeds and dropouts currently being experienced by overloaded wireless networks. It is a long way from implementation, but may hold promise in the future when wireless networks are facing crippling overload. Of course Sophie Mirabella has gone into print promoting the view that the NBN will bring negligible benefits and that the answer is DIDO. http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/The-NBN-is-as-useful-as-those-newfangled-Beta-tapes/ Not inclined to give much credence to the facts, she concludes: “[i]True, DIDO is not available right now. But neither is the NBN – except to those test areas where people just aren’t joining up. “Does anyone really believe, given the massive leaps in internet technology we’ve seen in recent years, that this new improved wireless will not eventuate? In fact, it will probably be sooner rather than later. “Question is, how many billions of dollars of taxpayers money will be wasted digging up streets and laying new cables before this Government realises that the NBN is an expensive waste and consumers are voting with their wallets for more convenient, appropriate and affordable technology?”[/i] Yet I don’t remember Malcolm Turnbull talking about DIDO at his NPC address today, which might have been expected had he deemed it a great breakthrough. Perhaps he did and I missed it. Did anyone else hear him? Perhaps Sophie has upstaged him!

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011Hi Lyn Thank you for the [i]Technology Spectator[/i] link. I could find no reference to DIDO there, or in Malcolm Turnbull’s speech. So Sophie looks like she’s a jump ahead!!! If only I could remember Paul Bongiorno’s question – all I can recall was that it was the most stupid of all, and received an appropriate dismissive response from Turnbull. Can anyone else help me out?

psyclaw

3/08/2011Lyn, further to your discussion of MT at the Press club, Lenore Taylor's question...the last and a good one.....brought a pathetic response from MT. He looked very nervous, very ingenuous as he said that Hockey is the one to handle costing (MT's obviously been warned to stick to his own portfolio) and as he plainly waffled on, stuck for sensible words. Plus there was his failed attempt to lighten up with an Irish joke that was so lame and went over most listeners' heads. No sign of a laugh from the press corps. He's continually defending the indefensible....he knows it and it shows.

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011Folks I'm out for a couple of hours.

nasking

3/08/2011Think we have a rotten media...try Italy under Berlusconi. That little fascist, media boss and corporate thief has taken Italy to the edge of the cliff...spending more time defending his own interests than creating a functioning democratic economy. Italian 10 yr bond yields are now well beyond 6%...borrowing has got far more expensive. Berlusconi fiddles, whilst his country's underlying economy burns. Too many gullible spectators in Italy for too many years. Tits & bums & trash on TV...keeping the people occupied as Berlusconi & his mates & finance companies suck the life out of their country. Spain soon to be another basket case if they don't act quick...and w/ "fairness" in mind. The property developers & financiers have alot to answer for. N'

Michael

3/08/2011DIDO facts and figures can be Googled, or visit http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=24364 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/01/dido_snake_oil_or_saviour/ to show that it is a VERY experimental 'technology' that, to deliver all it claims it will, needs so much backhaul infrastructure that it might (terrifying Ms Mirabella, no doubt) cost as much as the NBN is ever likely to. Of course the "I'm not a tech-head, Kerrie" (see above) slavish Shouldabeen posterior lickers like Savage Sophie would leap on this sort of stuff. Meself, me personally, me, I thought April 1 may have come... early... I'm no 'calendar-head, Kerrie'.

nasking

3/08/2011[quote]He looked very nervous, very ingenuous as he said that Hockey is the one to handle costing (MT's obviously been warned to stick to his own portfolio) and as he plainly waffled on, stuck for sensible words. [/quote] Bwa ha ha ha...Joe Hockey? I wouldn't trust him to run a burger joint. Turnbull is lookin' more kowtowin' by the day. He has no vision either. Just a corporate hack. The competition that Turnbull is hopin' for might vanish if this economic wave hits that some of us suspect will if America doesn't get it's sh*t together. The government is taking the right approach by rolling out a grand communication system for the future, owned by us for now...used by diverse companies. It will help stimulate jobs...like fast trains will...and diverse energy sources. It's practical & visionary futureproofing. Like building the telephone network, post offices, hospitals & rail of old. Thnx for the info psyclaw & Lyn. BTW, Jennifer Hewett of The Australian is a fool. She's either a Murdoch hack or just plain short-sighted...perhaps both. N'

Feral Skeleton

3/08/2011Hello All! I'm home early on this Global Warming-induced early Spring in Winter day. :) Caught a bit of MT's speech at the NPC(probably forced on him by the Powers-That-Be in the LNP in order to couterbalance the announcement of 10 more mainland locations for the NBN rollout today). I was at a friend's place giving them their Census material so could only half listen to a little bit of it. What I can say is that I think Malcolm sounded unenthusiastic and spoke in a monotonous fashion. The subtext was that if only he could say what he really believed instead of having to trot out the party line and try and make a sow's ear seem like a silk purse. Not that I feel sorry for Mr Turnbull having to prostitute himself politically in this way since he decided to stay on in politics under the leadership of 'I'm No Tech Head,Kerrie' Abbott. He made his bed and now he has to lie in it. However, I will say that I wouldn't be surprised if he considers his future in politics again should the polls start to turn around and away from the Coalition and back to the government. I don't think he could stand another interminable term in Opposition under Abbott. It must chafe enough as it is. Also, wrt DIDO, I read somewhere recently that the inventor of the new technology said that, good as it seems at first blush, there are still some major wrinkles to iron out before it can be let loose into the cities and suburbs of the world. Basically, it was being tested in the plains of Texas and worked great, but hadn't performed so well in built up areas. Which is like, most of the rest of the inhabited world. A slight hiccup that sophie the panglossian proselytiser for DIDO conveniently left out. Might I also make the point that it seems passing strange that the Shadow Manufacturing & Industry Minister, Mirabella, wrote the article, and not the Shadow IT Minister, Turnbull. Maybe Turnbull was asked and not so politely declined?

Feral Skeleton

3/08/2011Nas, It's a vile future the Oligarchs and their puppets in the Tea Party in Congress are planning for Americans, and the world, if they can get their hands on the workforce. All labour contracted, paid at the lowest rate possible with absolutely minimal benefits, and constantly fearing the tearing up of their contracts if they don't toe the line. Of course there's no place for Union representation for the workers. They should just be grateful they've got a job at all, doncha know?

Patricia WA

3/08/2011Thanks Lyn for a great report on Turnbull's address. I've been out of range the past few days and you've saved me catching up on him at the National Press Club, at least. I rushed to make sure the PM was at Nixon's book launch, and had a rare visit to the Herald Sun. What a rotten shower they are at the Hun! Their readers too. May they all die dreadful deaths, their systems poisoned by their own toxic minds. Sorry, that should be mouths. They don't think. Just regurgitate their own bile.

D Mick Weir

3/08/2011Some food for thought: [i]It's a funny thing for a bleeding-heart liberal to find himself the guest of a right-wing think tank and funnier still to feel enlightened by what was said. We spend our lives polarised from people we imagine we disagree with. It makes life easier. So we demonise Tony Abbott even as we doubt Julia Gillard. We rage against Fox News in America for its right-wing bias while barracking for the opposite.[/i] [b]We share plenty with other side[/b] Peter Craven @ National Times http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/we-share-plenty-with-other-side-20110802-1i9nu.html The only thing I can add is: I am [b]always right[/b] [i]... except when I am wrong[/i]

Lyn

3/08/2011Hi psyclaw Glad you noticed the same as me about Mr Turnbull's demeanor. I forgot to mention, when Turnbull was asked about Tony Abbott instructing him to demolish the NBN, Turnbull said "that was an unfortunate choice of words". [quote]He looked very nervous, very ingenuous as he said that Hockey is the one to handle costing (MT's obviously been warned to stick to his own portfolio) and as he plainly waffled on, stuck for sensible words. [/quote] Your words psyclaw he sure was stuck for words. As Ad Astra said none of the journalists had any sensible questions , I counted 11 questions. Matthew Franklin a senior Political journalist tweeted before the speech: franklinmatthewMatthew Franklin [b]Anyone got any ideas about what I should ask malcolm turnbull at the press club?[/b] 5 hours agoFavoriteRetweetReply I'm no tech head Kerry either but this whole argument by the Coalition seems ridiculous Here is another report on Turnbull's alternative, they definately are tech heads Kerry: [i]Conroy attacks Turnbull over latest broadband plan, IT News[/i] Communications minister Stephen Conroy has slammed a coalition proposal to disband the National Broadband Network builder and form a new partially funded wholesaler out of Telstra's infrastructure arm, branding the plan "economic vandalism". The proposal was presented by shadow communications spokesman Malcolm Turnbull in an address to the [b]National Press Club today [/b]that met Senator Conroy's demands for a coherent and costed alternative policy to the NBN. http://www.itnews.com.au/News/265736,conroy-attacks-turnbull-over-latest-broadband-plan.aspx @TurnbullMalcolmMalcolm Turnbull Here is my speech to the National Press Club http://t.co/hdMxdti and release on second release sites, http://t.co/jl6EzPV 4 hours agovia Twitter for iPhoneFavoriteRetweetReply Turnbull decries war on climate science, jeremy Thompson, ABC He also warned the Liberal Party against veering too much to the right, using his popularity as a moderate in the New South Wales seat of Wentworth as an example of wresting votes from Labor http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2h2hmw/au.finance.yahoo.com/news/Turnbull-decries-war-climate-abc-649885823.html?x=0 Cheers :):):):):):)

Lyn

3/08/2011Hi Patricia Good to see you, glad you enjoyed the Turnbull report. You know Patricia I find it really hard to be funny in text, I put up Sir Eloquence (How Now Brown Cow) and nobody laughed. Malcolm Turnbull would have still upset many in the Liberal Party today though, because he: cautioned against extremism in the Liberal Party, Carbon dioxide has a weight, there's been a war on science, Elections won in the centre, Happy if Labor likes him means more votes Chers :):):):):)

nasking

3/08/2011[quote]What I can say is that I think Malcolm sounded unenthusiastic and spoke in a monotonous fashion. The subtext was that if only he could say what he really believed instead of having to trot out the party line and try and make a sow's ear seem like a silk purse. [/quote] Feral, I just saw part of the Press Club thing. Malcolm's response to the useful Lenore Taylor questions & a few others revealed something important to me, particularly as he told the Irish pub joke. Malcolm is obviously good at dinner parties & luncheons w/ the high flyin' investor set. Keep yer plans vague...sound as tho you can pull in a diverse group of investors (voters in this instance)...when queried on details delegate responsibilities to others who are not in the room (Hockey in this instance)...and have a few good jokes up yer sleeve to distract others from listening to the anally retentive questioners. :) As for bein' a good PM...well, I reckon the Lodge would get a thorough goin' over deco-wise...and the wine cellar would get good use. Might even get rented out to the highest bidder. Lloyd C. Blankfein...or Frank Lowy perhaps? N'

nasking

3/08/2011Enjoyed The Drum tonite. David Marr was in fine form. The issue of "unaccompanied minors" came up re: the asylum seeker's intend to still come bit, pushed by the ever desperate News Ltd. I couldn't help but think it would be pretty dopey of Indonesian authorities to allow this to happen. Talk about risky. Imagine the focus on Indonesia if a boatload of children was to sink, gawd forbid...or a number of kids were drowned and/or abused in the process...having left their shores? What would that say about Indonesia if a boatload of kids tried to escape? About their border security? The state of their refugee camps? Treatment of children? The questions go on & on. And if it could be proved that News Ltd journos or other employees were egging them on? N'

nasking

3/08/2011Speaking of Indonesia...I won't be buying from Office Works whilst they sell copy paper from the company APRIL which is tearing up Sumatra's old growth forest etc. in order to create plantations for pulping purposes. Watch this Foreign Correspondent episode if ya haven't already: http://www.abc.net.au/iview/?gclid=CIjCi7jvsqoCFYFspAodK3IM9A#/view/808172 Was discussed on The Drum tonite too. Thumbs up. N'

nasking

3/08/2011Last comment for the nite. I'm fed up w/ hearing the LNP here in QLD baying for Minister Stephen Robertson's blood. How short are memories up here? How many years of horrid drought did we have here in QLD before the floods? I can remember heaps of people sayin' "They better not let much water outa the dam...it's the first time in years we have heaps...what if the drought returns?" Noone coulda predicted those crazy rainfalls. If we hadn't gotten that much rain...and they'd let all that water go...imagine the outcry if it had got dry again? Give the guy a break. Enuff of this memory loss crap fellow QLDers. N'

Ad astra reply

3/08/2011Folks I too am calling it a night.

2353

4/08/2011Morning all, In the Fairfax Media this morning. [quote] MALCOLM TURNBULL has hit back at critics within the right wing of the Liberal Party, saying his popularity with Labor voters is a strength because it means he can lure votes to the Coalition that others cannot. Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/i-can-lure-voters-to-coalition-turnbull-20110803-1ibnc.html#ixzz1U0HDCsWc [/quote] Guess who's looking more like trying to reclaim the leadership. P.S. Sorry Lyn if I beat you to it - your daily work si much appreciated.

Lyn

4/08/2011 [b]TODAY’S LINK’S[/b] [i]The Australian writes crap ,Gary Sauer Thompson, Public Opinion[/i] This partisan political commentary in the guise of journalism has nothing to do with truth, accountability or public interest. The distrust of Canberra Press Gallery arises because much of their "journalism" islittle more than rampantly partisan news commentary by ideological warriors. http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2011/08/the-australian-13.php#more [i]News attacks, John Quiggin, Crooked Timber[/i] even the Oz comments thread was mostly favorable. I was even, briefly, a trending topic on Twitter! Perhaps the spell of Murdoch is starting to fade? http://crookedtimber.org/2011/08/03/news-attacks/ [i]It All Comes Down to trust,Liana Neri , Upstart[/i] in Australia, The Wheeler Centre will soon host a discussion, featuring media analysts Margaret Simons and Rod Tiffen, on the hacking scandal and its impact on Australian media.The News of the World scandal is a timely reminder http://www.upstart.net.au/2011/08/03/it-all-comes-down-to-trust/ [i]The quality journalism project: now crossing to Leigh Sales, Amber Jamieson, Crikey[/i] Today we have Leigh Sales, host of ABC’s 7.30: CRIKEY: What is your definition of quality journalism? http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/08/03/quality-journalism-project-leigh-sales/ [i]When the Going Gets Tough, Wixxy’s Blog [/i] I had to laugh when the best the Federal Liberal Party could manage to counteract this, was to roll out a smirking Julie Bishop, so she couldtell us that Julia Gillard had given too much money to the hospitals. Too much money to the hospitals??? WTF?? http://wixxy.wordpress.com/ [i]#LOLBolt quarantine thread – August 3, Dave Gaukroger, Pure Poison[/i] Here’s another look at the Bolt Report ratings, if we apply some of the types of statistical wizardry that seems to pass muster on the Jester’s blog. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/08/03/lolbolt-quarantine-thread-august-3/ [i]Abbott Not To Be Believed on Carbon Price, Alex Schlotzer[/i] I took great glee in another of Abbott’s claims about economic ruination proving to be incorrect.Posting it to my G+ network, the article sparkeda bit of discussion and I was reminded http://alexschlotzer.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/abbott-not-to-be-believed-on-carbon-price/ [i]Australia must act now on renewables or be left behind, Dylan, McConnell, The Conversation[/i] Renewables are coming down the cost curve faster than expected. Even industrial giant GE is predicting solar PV will reach grid parity (in the US) in three to five years' time. If Australia doesn’t get on board soon, we’ll miss the boat. http://theconversation.edu.au/australia-must-act-now-on-renewables-or-be-left-behind-2631 [i]The NBN in review: The price you pay,David Braue, ABC Technology[/i] NBN Co was getting on with business, commencing a 12-week review of the Telstra copper-network ducts it's paying to access and engaging trainingfirms to build up the skills base necessary to make the network happen. Telstra, for its part, embarked on a significant management http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2011/08/03/3284302.htm [i]Bernie Sanders: The Top Ten U.S. Corporate Tax Avoiders, The Daily Bail [/i] Sanders has called for closing corporate tax loopholes and eliminating tax breaks for oil and gas companies. He also introduced legislation to imposea 5.4 percent surtax on millionaires that would yield up to $50 billion a year. The senator has said that spending cuts must be http://dailybail.com/home/bernie-sanders-the-top-ten-us-corporate-tax-avoiders.html [i]Having a laugh, David Horton, The Watermelon Blog[/i] Barry O’Farrell (Premier of New South Wales) is now under pressure it seems from both the far right (Fred Nile and the Shooters) and the right (federal minister Martin Ferguson). The Shooters and Fishers have already put a stop to protecting marine life http://davidhortonsblog.com/2011/08/03/having-a-laugh/ [i]The myth of right-wing terrorism, Merv Bendle, Quadrant Online[/i] The campaign by the left to depict the Norwegian terrorist Anders Behring Breivik, as a right-wing Christian fundamentalist is intensifying and becoming increasingly successful. http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/qed/2011/08/the-myth-of-right-wing-terrorism [i]WATERFORD: The Tony Abbott Tea Party, Jack Waterford, The Canberra Times[/i] There's a very good chance that this would expose Abbott's hollowness, his opportunism, and even some of the extremism of his remarks. Tea Parties, as with their American predecessor Know-Nothing Parties, never win. http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/waterford-the-tony-abbott-tea-party/2246566.aspx?storypage=1 [i]The Wall Street Journal: Murdochification Watch, Ryan Chittum, Columbia Journalism review[/i] Tom Crone, who says James Murdoch misled Parliament when he said he never knew about prima facie evidence of criminality when Murdoch settled the Gordon Taylor case for more than a million bucks http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/wsj_murdoch_mirror_bribes.php [i]Basamuk landowners send a simple message to Marengo mining, Papua New Guinea Mine Watch,[/i] The Basamuk landowners who are fighting plans by the Ramu nickel mine to dump toxic tailings into Astrolabe Bay in Madang Province, have sent a simple message to Marengo Mining in a full-page advert in today’s newspapers. http://ramumine.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/basamuk-landowners-send-a-simple-message-to-marengo-mining/

Feral Skeleton

4/08/2011Nas, You make a fine point there wrt the focus on Indonesia that would eventuate should they allow(and I've never understood why Indonesia has been unable to 'Stop the Boats!' if they knew which port/s they always set sail from) the People Smugglers who work within their borders to fill a fishing boat up to the gunnels with unaccompanied minors and then let them set course for Australia. Pretty reprehensible behaviour for a country to condone that. It all seems just too obvious as well, as in, the People Smugglers in Indonesia, the kid's parents and the authorities in Indonesia, combining to contribute to a gaming of the Asylum Seeker system. It hardly speaks to the bespoke image of the poor, huddled masses seeking refuge from a storm of exploitation. More like a calculated attempt to gain back door entry to the country by whatever means necessary. Which brings me to the Refugee Advocate industry. Sure, a lot of those people started out back in the Howard day with the best will, and intentions, in the world to do good by those seeking asylum Down Under. Now, though, I feel that their advocacy for these people has morphed into an unthinking position that says, 'All asylum seekers=good. Any attempt by government to prioritise who comes here=bad'

Ad astra reply

4/08/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

nasking

4/08/2011Stephen Conroy is a great communicator...he's knocking Malcolm for six. Turnbull was foolish to take that portfolio. He'll be worn down. It will be Abbott that takes the Coalition to the next election...unless he gets ill. Joe Hockey has stupidly given the impression he's onboard w/ the climate change sceptics in an attempt to diss the Climate Change dept and in turn attempt to undermine the useful carbon price booklet put out by the government. And again he comes across as an enemy of the public service. He's like a mad timber worker w/ a big axe preparing to chop into the public service forest willy nilly...regardless of whose lives are damaged. It's another WRECKING BALL for Joe...straight into his own career. BTW, all the tabloids who have been involved in criminal activities deserve to be investigated. The Mirror, Daily Mail...across the world. That includes shock jock radio. None should be protected. It's time to deal w/ "the untouchables". Get some integrity & real journalism back into the sector. It's time the world focused on the real issues, the real problems that need solving...instead of bein' distracted by stupidity like "which celebrity doesn't wear undies & has bruises on her arse"...or "which celebrity male has sex w/ other males in a park"...frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. I want a sustainable, less corrupt future. Fast train implementation study looks good. I'm excited. Having used many fast trains overseas. N'

TalkTurkey

4/08/2011Lyn said "You know Patricia I find it really hard to be funny in text, I put up Sir Eloquence (How Now Brown Cow) and nobody laughed." Lyn I haven't seen where you said that but let me tell you Girl, you are ALWAYS funny, like The Girl Can't Help It, even when you're being serious, as well as sweet and perspicacious and right out in front of us all. DYWAT! I just regret that some idiot made, you feel, self-conscious about your, unique use of commas, which is delicious beyond words. Nasking, you are so prolific nowadays! WRT the non-release of water from Wivenhoe, yes well I guess the people who lost houses or loved ones will feel regretful and some will feel angry, but you're quite right, only hindsight shows how much water came down, nobody could have predicted that, and the water itself is so precious to that city. There is a parallel situation in the 1629 [i]Batavia[/i] saga, where 49 people (46 men, 2 women and 1 baby!) in an open boat designed for 23 are desperately rowing north from the Houtman's Abrolhos, near Geraldton WA, making for Java after their ship ran aground, they have only sips of water per person, yet then it rains so hard that all hands are kept bailing frantically all night long, trying to guess when to stop and how much fresh water they can afford to keep in their little boat. There was no way of knowing then, as there was no way of knowing when to release water from Wivenhoe. But people want someone to blame. About Turnbull, Turdball I calls him, he's nowhere as bad as Abbortt but his CV is littered with low and shady deals, he'll do most anything too to get what he wants, although I have an idea that might not necessarily include the Prime Ministership any more. (I think he'd never get to be LOTO again, too much baggage with too many on the Right); no, I think he has his own agenda, along lines of, not that he wants Power for himself so much any more, but that he abhors the notion of Abbortt getting it. ;-) He's like a 3-Cornered Jack in with Abbortt's Budgie. His performance yesterday was patchy and weird, he was hopscotching carefully, not trying to appear to be too clever in grabs but very circumspect about saying too much or making any mistakes which would finally condemn him in his party's eyes. But Yes while he didn't cross any Coalonic lines, he did quietly let the world know what he thinks of Abbortt's stupidity, as with 'weightless' carbon, and he was very clever about that, appearing not to relish the opportunity to ridicule Abbortt but actually seeming reluctant to answer an insistent questioner, yet that line came very easily in the end about dropping on your toe a lump of 'dry ice' (which btw is frozen Carbon Dioxide ie CO2 for anybody with no more scientific knowledge than Abbortt himself, who doesn't even know its name, he calls it carbon [i]doxide[/i], which speaks volumes.) Turnbull has aspect of good sense, but his lowlife personal history will militate against him taking too many votes from Us, and his decent aspects and history will prevent him being too popular with Them. But he is in a position to be very worrisome for Abbortt, and as a result very very useful for Us, and thus by extension, paradoxically, to be very good for Australia. :) One thing, he [i]must[/i] be disingenuous about the NBN, he [i]must[/i] know that Australians won't countenance less than the best here, (that's not TT being Aren't-We-Aussies-Wonderful, rather, we are demanders and insisters, we WILL have the best and that's all there is to it. And quite right too imo wrt information technology. Good on us.) So he is being a Very Good Boy, [i]apparently,[/i] for Abbortt, but inside his head he must be roiling, what fun for Conroy and the rest of Us as Turdy hop-hop-hop-jump-hops his way through the next 2 years, and Abbortt watches him heart in mouth and 3-Cornered-Jack in smugglers . . . I love wedge politics when it's Abbortt's ( * ) being wedged!

nasking

4/08/2011If we had fast trains built from Brisbane to Melbourne, including Gold Coast, Newcastle, Sydney, Canberra etc. imagine how much more attractive we'd be for the soccer World Cup. And we could build clean energy mega malls, hotels & conference centres around the rapid train stations. Cool. No longer the backward country. If America doesn't get it's house in order and start paying down debt whilst increasing revenue...deal w/ corporate corruption more effectively...and move more on the cleaner energy, NBN style stuff, we'll leave them in the dust, like Singapore, Dubai, parts of China, Germany etc. are already starting to. Many Americans have lost their integrity & vision. They're fearful bedwetters. N'

Gravel

4/08/2011Nas Please keep your very informative comments coming. It is a very good point about Indonesia as you and Lyn have pointed out. I am not a lateral thinker, indeed if I can even be called a thinker of any sort, but I would like to think that Labor are on to this aspect of the asylum seeker issue. Lyn Thanks heaps again for your wonderful links, I keep being pleased with other people's aspects of different topics and learn so much. Feral Skeleton You are probably our most fittest TPSer at the moment. At the moment you can have a well earned rest. Just out of curiosity, approximately how many of your 'customers' have said they will do it online? We are, and our distributor said 'a lot' of people in our area said they were going to do it online. Hopefully for you I hope 'a lot' of your 'customers' are going to do so, so that you won't have as many steep climbs on the pick up run.

Feral Skeleton

4/08/2011Nas, Can't wait for this film to get an Oz release: You Betcha! :) http://blogs.indiewire.com/thompsononhollywood/2011/08/03/sarah_palin/

Ad astra reply

4/08/2011Folks I'll be out for a couple of hours.

Michael

4/08/2011Out Bad Abbotting Tiny, this fine Thursday morning. With all due respect, and it is deep respect, to Acerbic Conehead, the following transcript from Tony Jones interviewing Joe Flunkey on Lateline last night trumps him, and out 'Clarke and Doyles' Clarke and Doyle in one bizarre, bizarre, real world, yes it really happened, here's the transcript, there's a video available to, interview. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-03/all-current-trends-are-alarming-hockey/2823686 PS Will the Green Army have snappy little armbands with the Party symbol in highlighted view (red, white and black have worked before), Joe, or is that a question best left to Shouldabeen? Transcript, Lateline, ABC Wednesday evening, August 10, 2011 TONY JONES, PRESENTER: Tonight's guest is Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey, who joined us in our Sydney studio just a short time ago. Joe Hockey, thanks for joining us. JOE HOCKEY, SHADOW TREASURER: Great to be here, Tony. TONY JONES: Now financial markets are panicking again after attempts in Washington to defuse the debt crisis. Do you fear that we may be headed for a second wave of the GFC? JOE HOCKEY: Well, this will be different. I think what we saw during the GFC was a transfer of debt from the private sector to the public sector, and now sovereign debt around the world is a major issue. The question of how governments are going to fund the servicing of that debt is a major issue. The challenge with the United States is it's a benchmark bond. The US Treasury's are benchmarks for the rest of the world's sovereign debt. TONY JONES: Well particularly when both China and Russia are saying they've failed to defuse this debt crisis. JOE HOCKEY: Yeah, well, there's no doubt that I think what China in particular, but also Mr Putin comments in Russia today illustrate is the fact that there is going to be a movement away from the US dollar to investment in other currencies, and that's good and bad for us. It means there's greater demand for the Australian dollar, which will put further upward pressure on the Australian dollar. But 73 per cent of all Australian Government debt is in the hands of non-residents, so that creates a risk profile for us and it's reminds everyone that you got to pay off government debt as quickly as possible. TONY JONES: If you were suddenly faced in government with a global financial crisis as the Labor Government was, what would you do? JOE HOCKEY: Well I think ... TONY JONES: In other words, do you actually have an emergency plan in place? JOE HOCKEY: Oh, look, every crisis is different. An effectively North Atlantic financial crisis was very different to previous events and financial crises, which in the past some of them were linked to equity markets, and it varies, every one varies. But from an Australian perspective, the best thing you can do at the moment is pay down debt. Now, if it's a good thing as an individual to pay down debt, then it's a good thing as a nation to pay down debt. And nations are no different to individuals. If you're cashed up, you're powerful, and China is very powerful at the moment because it's cashed up. Russia is increasingly cashed up, so they can say those things about the US markets and get away with it, because, frankly, they're the ones in control because they got the cash. TONY JONES: So, if you came to government - let's face it, you know, we're really in this country a heartbreak or a scandal away from an election. If you were suddenly in government and faced with this crisis, would you rule out a stimulus package, a kind of Keynesian response which was the response of the previous government, or the Rudd Government? JOE HOCKEY: Oh, look, it depends overwhelmingly on the circumstances, Tony. TONY JONES: So you wouldn't rule out going to stimulus again? JOE HOCKEY: No, you don't rule out any lever. But, for example, at the moment, the Government has the Reserve Bank doing the heavy lifting in the economy. The Government's done nothing about productivity for the last three and a half years. It talked big; it's done nothing. Productivity increased by about 25 per cent under the Howard Government, and it's flat-lined in Australia over the last three and a half years. All the trend indicators at the moment are rather alarming in the Australian economy. Consumer confidence is down, business confidence is down, dwelling investment is down, credit growth is flat, retail is down. This is an aggregation of indicators that illustrate the fact that the Government hasn't done the heavy lifting in the economy, and now they're just passing the buck to the Reserve Bank. And quite frankly, the messages coming out of the Reserve Bank are confused at the moment. The markets themselves are confused about whether there is an easing bias or a tightening bias coming out of the Reserve Bank. And so, there is - overall, there is a pall of uncertainty and instability over the Australia economy, and the Government is directly responsible for it. TONY JONES: OK. But I'm just getting to what you would do were you in government and there was another crisis like this. And the real question was whether you would have a philosophical opposition to a Keynesian approach of stimulating the economy. Answer: no. JOE HOCKEY: No. Tony, we didn't have a philosophical opposition to having stimulus packages before. Our argument always was that they were too big and they were wasteful, and time has proven us right. Pink bats, school halls, $900 cheques. We said it was too much. The second tranche of over $20 billion was way too much - or, sorry, over $40 billion, was way too much. The first tranche of increasing pensions, we supported. But the problem was the Government wasted money. And we've been proven absolutely right. And if there's anything that undermines consumer confidence, it's when it sees a government that is wasting money. TONY JONES: One of the key economic arguments or debates come the next election will be on climate action, that's clear. It'll be the carbon tax and emissions trading versus your direct action approach. Do you agree with that analysis, first of all? JOE HOCKEY: Oh, well, firstly, I'm not sure when the next election'll be held. As you say, we're a heartbeat away. But, if it is in the next 12 to 18 months, I'd imagine that's the case. TONY JONES: Let's look at your policy then. What does your modelling say will be the cost to the budget of the Coalition's direct action plan. JOE HOCKEY: Well we've indicated that over the first four years, it'll be $3.2 billion, and that policy's been out there now for just on 18 months. TONY JONES: Not everyone agrees with you though. Greg Combet says that analysis by his department, the Department of Climate Change, shows the direct action policy would cost the average Australian household $720 per year. JOE HOCKEY: Well this is the same Department of Climate Change that said there'd be a thousand companies that would pay the carbon tax, and then 24 hours later it'd be 500 companies. It's the same Department of Climate Change that has been party to Treasury modelling where they've modelled the impact of their own carbon tax at $20 a tonne instead of $23 a tonne. TONY JONES: But are you saying they're putting out false figures about your direct action plan? JOE HOCKEY: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. TONY JONES: Well, would you be disbanding this department if it's a department that puts out false figures for political reasons? I mean, you are talking about getting rid of 12,000 civil servants. JOE HOCKEY: Yeah. Well the Department of Climate Change will be pretty high up the list for very close scrutiny. TONY JONES: You mean, you'll be thinking of disbanding it. JOE HOCKEY: Yep. TONY JONES: OK. Let's go to another key part of the Coalition's direct action plan. What's your estimate of the cost of creating what Tony Abbott calls a 15,000-strong standing green army? JOE HOCKEY: Well, it would come into play as we actually forecast - I haven't got the immediate figure in front of me because it was one of many programs we went to the last election. But what we said was it'd be phased in over a period of time. Now,... TONY JONES: But building up over a number of years before 2020 to 15,000 - a 15,000-strong standing army. JOE HOCKEY: There are inputs that matter. For example, if you have a lower level of unemployment, then it is harder to recruit people for the green army. If you have a higher level of unemployment, it's easier and less expensive. So, there are variables at play, Tony, but ... TONY JONES: But have you got any costings at all? Because when he introduced the plan in January last year ... JOE HOCKEY: Yeah, they were a part of our costings - they were a part of our costings before the last election. TONY JONES: OK. JOE HOCKEY: Our commitment hasn't changed. And before the last election, the Treasury didn't dispute that costing. TONY JONES: OK, is this the costing then? Because in January last year when Tony Abbott introduced the policy, he said the 15,000 people would be recruited at an average cost per place of $50,000 a year for a 15,000-strong conservation corps. He said that would be very expensive. JOE HOCKEY: Well, I think the policy format has changed since that time. And obviously, when went to the last election outlining the detail, which was considerably less than the figure that you're alluding to. TONY JONES: Fifteen thousand multiplied by 50,000 is $750 million a year. JOE HOCKEY: Yeah, $750 million a year. I can add up and I think that's where you're getting to, and that's not the figure that we took to the last election. TONY JONES: But do you know what it is now? JOE HOCKEY: I haven't got it immediately in front of me; I didn't know this was coming. But we went to the last election with well over 50 individual promises, each was categorised, quantified and our numbers stacked up. As Treasury said, our numbers on our expenses stacked up. TONY JONES: But how do you explain this: you're going to cut 12,000 public servant places, but create 15,000 in this standing army? JOE HOCKEY: Hang on. Ease up. We went to the last election promising to reduce the public service by 12,000 through natural attrition over two years. I go one step further. In the three and half years since Labor was elected, the public service in Canberra has grown by more than 20,000. And in fact Julia Gillard couldn't even tell us how many people are going to be employed to introduce the carbon tax. TONY JONES: But if you have a 15,000-strong green army on the public purse ... JOE HOCKEY: No, no, no, we're not setting up battalions, Tony. If you're suggesting we're building battalions out there and creating ranks of staff sergeants - that is an oversimplification. TONY JONES: We can only take Tony Abbott at his word, ... JOE HOCKEY: And his word's good. TONY JONES: ... and what he said was he was going to employ a range of people, specialists in the field, relatively highly paid people. JOE HOCKEY: We're talking policy we took to the last election. TONY JONES: Well it's not absolutely clear in that policy what they're doing. Because I'll tell you one thing it says in your direct action policy: that the standing army will be responsible, or largely responsible for planting 20 million trees. How much is that going to cost? JOE HOCKEY: Well that's part of the $3.2 billion that we allocated over four years. TONY JONES: And with the standing army of 15,000, if it does grow to that, between now and 2020. JOE HOCKEY: We didn't say it was going to grow to that immediately. So, that's quite clear in the policy. TONY JONES: I said by 2020. JOE HOCKEY: Yeah, well, OK. Well ... TONY JONES: It would have to grow to that by 2020 because that's ... JOE HOCKEY: Let's see - the costs vary. I mean, if you look at the costs in the Government's own budget, they vary from day to day. Our costs are enduring, but obviously we update the costs as we approach the election. Everyone'll see the full details of our policies. TONY JONES: But are you discussing this with Tony Abbott? I mean, a 15,000-strong green army is quite a big thing to be talking about, particularly if it does end up blowing out to, you know,$750 million a year. JOE HOCKEY: We are going through every line item of the budget at the moment. TONY JONES: Have you been through that one? JOE HOCKEY: We're spending days and days going through every line item of budget. TONY JONES: That's quite a big line item by 2020: $750 million a year. JOE HOCKEY: We can keep going on about it. We can keep going on about it, Tony, but we are going through every line item in the budget and we're being fair dinkum about it and our numbers stack up. TONY JONES: And you've had a chat with Tony Abbott about it? JOE HOCKEY: I talk to Tony on a regular basis about a range of things. TONY JONES: About the army? JOE HOCKEY: Ah, well, I think the Army's doing a great job in Afghanistan and I think ... TONY JONES: I'm talking about the green army, which doesn't exist at this point. JOE HOCKEY: Oh, the green army. Well, the green army is - you know, we went to the last election with a firm policy; we're committed to it. TONY JONES: But you don't know how big it'll be? JOE HOCKEY: No, no, we've outlined it in the policy. The numbers are there. TONY JONES: But you don't know right now? JOE HOCKEY: We're going in a big circle here. TONY JONES: OK. Alright. The other aspect of this is that the direct action plan is aiming to get 15 million tonnes of carbon abatement from new tree plantations. The forestry industry says that'll require planting trees on 600,000 hectares of cleared agricultural land. Have you cleared that with the National Party? JOE HOCKEY: No, we've said it's not necessarily cleared agricultural land. TONY JONES: What sort of land will it be? JOE HOCKEY: It can be - well, it can be ... TONY JONES: That's what the forest industry has said. JOE HOCKEY: Yeah, it can be less quality land than good agricultural land. I mean, you can buy, you know, hundreds of thousands of acres west of Moree and I wouldn't describe that as prime agricultural land. But there is a capacity to do it. TONY JONES: So that's where the green army will be planting the 20 million trees? JOE HOCKEY: Well, the green army will be part of that process. TONY JONES: Evidently the policy also contemplates getting 15 billion tonnes of carbon abatement by paying brown coal-fired power generator - or at least one, to close down. What would that cost to the budget? JOE HOCKEY: Well, you can ask the Gillard Government the same question. TONY JONES: We have been asking that question. I don't know that everyone knows the Coalition is talking about closing down - possibly closing down the same coal-fired power generator in the Latrobe Valley. JOE HOCKEY: Yeah, but the difference is we're putting gas in there as a replacement, which can be done, according to the people running the power stations. So they can fire up the power stations, retain the power stations as such, but replace the brown coal with gas. TONY JONES: OK, but still you're talking about closing down the brown coal-fired power generator ... JOE HOCKEY: And replacing it with gas. TONY JONES: Which is the logical thing to do. JOE HOCKEY: Yeah, yeah, that's right. TONY JONES: And one would imagine that maybe what the Government does as well. JOE HOCKEY: It's a mystery to all of us. TONY JONES: But if they go down that path, presumably you'll support it. JOE HOCKEY: Ah, well, if they go down that path and there's a managed, process, yes. TONY JONES: Because what we've been told, as far as I can recall, by Tony Abbott, is that there's going to be massive job losses through the Latrobe Valley because of closing down the brown coal-fired (inaudible) ... JOE HOCKEY: But the Government is not giving a guarantee they'll replace it with gas. TONY JONES: Well they haven't at this point. JOE HOCKEY: No, well that's why there'll be job losses. TONY JONES: If they do, you'll support it though. If they put gas in there ... JOE HOCKEY: Well, it may well be the case that we support it. It depends on how much money is involved. And this is the ... TONY JONES: But how much money is involved if you do it? JOE HOCKEY: Well it's a negotiation. I fully accept the Government's claim that it's a negotiation - that's right. It is a negotiation. Even the Labor Party isn't prepared to give a blank cheque to the power stations. They're right. This is a rare moment that they don't give out a blank cheque. But we support them not giving out a blank cheque and it's a negotiation process. But I'm so pleased you raise it, because the Labor Party now is adopting our direct action program. TONY JONES: Well, they're certainly - on this question, yes, they are. JOE HOCKEY: Yeah. Yeah. That's good, isn't it? TONY JONES: But they're also being criticised for it by you. JOE HOCKEY: No, no, no, hang on. Our criticism is if they close the coal-fired power station, you lose the jobs and there's no replacement energy input to create the power. TONY JONES: I'm afraid we're out of time. There's a lot more to talk about, but we haven't got time to do it. JOE HOCKEY: I could be here all night. TONY JONES: Joe Hockey, we thank you very much for coming in to join us. JOE HOCKEY: Thanks very much. TONY JONES: Appreciate it. See you again. JOE HOCKEY: Thanks. Thanks.

Feral Skeleton

4/08/2011Gravel, I don't feel fit, I feel fractured. :D Yes, you are correct, there are a lot of people just taking the eCensus alternative. However a lot of the houses in my area are Holiday Homes of the Rich and (In)Famous(like John Singleton, a host of actors and artists, and Roy & HG Nelson! Plus numerous judges, business types etc., so I have just had to leave the form on their doorstep and see what happens next week when I come back to collect them, or not, if they have filled in the eCensus. Quite a few people that I have come into contact with have just taken the eCensus though already. I might also add that I have finished handing out my load of forms and don't have to do any more until Wednesday next week. Yay!

Feral Skeleton

4/08/2011Nas, Warren Truss has spoken, and Australia doesn't have the population to support a Very Fast Train system. Which is a strange sort of logic when you think that a much-reduced Australia was big enough to support the start-up of Qantas. Look, it's just the Conservative's anti Public Transport agenda, really, and anything which is counter-factual to more cars and trucks on more roads supporting the consumption of more fossil fuels which are sold by their mates.

Lyn

4/08/2011Hi Talk Turkey Great your computer is fixed, I am guessing. So you would have gone past my comment above, listing my opinion of 6 points about Turnbull's speech that would upset the Liberals ,at least half of them anyway. Excellent most enjoyable comment Talk Turkey thankyou very much. I would be interested to hear who watched Joe Hockey's fumbling, bumbling, stumbling, ..idiotic interview with Tony Jones last night. Anyone who can be bothered watching there is a good laugh to be had. My favourite part is the planting of trees, the 15,000 green army, the multiplication carried out by Tony Jones, Joe Hockey's reply he said "I can Add up" , I said I hope so. Joe Hockey is going to axe the whole climate Change Department, they said before, they don't trust Treasury either. Here's a link to Rob Burgess's opinion there is a link to Video of Lateline, for anyone that missed the very funny laugh a minute program: show: [i]Robb must throw Hockey a policy bone, Rob Burgess, Business Spectator[/i] Watching Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey squirm under interrogation from the ABC's Tony Jones last night was a stark reminder of how far the Coalition has to go in cleansing its 2010 policy platform out outright silliness. Jones' technique last night was pretty simple – pick the silliest part of the Direct Action climate change policy and hammer home question after question as to why it makes sense. In this case, it was the "15,000-strong standing Green Army" the Coalition promised last August. The Turnbull broadband plan may suffer the same indignity – fairly sound policy that is too difficult to explain to the punters. A vision of buying or re-privatising numerous classes of assets, delivering multiple levels of speed in different parts of the country, and involving varying costs to consumers, is a complex picture. http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Joe-Hockey-Malcolm-Turnbull-NBN-carbon-tax-Coaliti-pd20110804-KDTRU?opendocument&src=rss I am putting this link up for everybody, just been posted by Tim, relevent to Ad Astra's article: [i]http://tjd.posterous.com/non-media-folk-despair, Tim Dunlop, BSides[/i] mean, the newspaper industry is barely solvent, their reputation is in the gutter, they are shedding readers like a dog shaking off water, and Holmes is only just now getting 'an appreciation of the frustration that the press's complacency and self-importance can engender in non-media folk'? http://tjd.posterous.com/non-media-folk-despair Cheers ::):):):):):)

Patricia WA

4/08/2011TT re Turnbull not having prime ministerial ambitions any more, it occurred to me that he is seems so essentially alone amongst the Libs that he must know realistically he hasn't a hope in hell of leading them again. Is there no one who is recognisably a friend or supporter of his, no group or faction or individual? We know that Malcolm Fraser is a great admirer, of course! And much as one has to commend his 'principled' stand on climate change he doesn't seem to have other major policy commitments around which moderate Liberals could gather. 2353's pre-emptive :) strike of the day re Turnbull's leadership aspirations had me thinking over my first coffee before I settled down with Lyn's Links. Looking at that picture of Turnbull in the Brisbane Times I was struck by what a hollow figure he cut, just a tailor's dummy! Handsome, of course. Suave, smiling, silver haired and entirely lacking substance. He would have to be a very vain and silly man to still have any hope of running this country. His stand on climate and the environment would be seen as genuinely principled if were to sit on the cross benches. Tony Windsor has demonstrated how much power can be wielded from there by an honest man. PS I'm not given to the re-Captcha game, but todays looks somehow significant. <b> Therese's fenable!</b> when you think that 'fen' is also 'mud.'

Lyn

4/08/2011Hi Michael You little beauty, thankyou for posting the Hockey interview. Sorry I came after you, I have crossed over again, busy with my post while you are posting yours. Love your description Michael, but honest, The interview was, unbelievable. What about the maths, did you get a bit of delightful giggling out of that : [quote]JOE HOCKEY: Yeah, $750 million a year. [b]I can add up [/b][/quote] [quote]Joe Flunkey on Lateline last night trumps him, and out 'Clarke and Doyles' Clarke and Doyle in one bizarre, bizarre, real world, yes it really happened, here's the transcript, there's a video available to, interview. [/quote] Cheers :):):):):)

nasking

4/08/2011[quote]trying to guess when to stop and how much fresh water they can afford to keep in their little boat. There was no way of knowing then, as there was no way of knowing when to release water from Wivenhoe. But people want someone to blame. [/quote] Talk Turkey, Good analogy. I find that a society dominated by fingerpointing media has less time to progress & improve. I'm pleased this government is dealing well lately w/ the bleaters and putting in place visionary, futureproofing schemes/projects. I feel quite optimistic about the future for this country. Malcolm Turnbull would gain more respect from the likes of myself, my wife & friends if he became an Independent and supported the government... rather than sticking w/ obstinate Luddites who let oddball religious views determine their policies...and the greed for gain mentality of the likes of Gina Rinehart. This country is not a candy shop for the likes of Gina & her goal to be the richest woman in the world...and most influential person in Australia. It's essential that the finite resources of this country be used more effectively w/ the long-term in mind... that's why we need a useful super profit's mining tax etc. so the mining corporations pay a fair amount for getting access to such valuable resources...ensuring that moneys are redistributed to innovative businesses in other sectors...and valuable infrastructure, such as high speed rail. Even providing incentives for investors in such infrastructure. We could be a dynamic country...whilst still having protected areas of the environment that act as lungs for the planet...and providing tourism opportunities. Having an environmentally and socially sustainable economy does not mean businesses can't prosper...quite the contrary, if they adapt. As many are doin' durin' this era of transition from old communication technologies to the internet. Might add, I reckon PM Julia Gillard is doin' a fab job of late...enjoyed listening to her & the feisty book publisher at Chrisine Nixon's book release. I'm pleased the PM is now focusing on Aged Care. The NBN & rapid trains will fit right into this. My Mum & father-in-law will have the opportunity to deal w/ their docs/specialists on the NBN instead of always painfully making their way thru dangerous traffic & busy buildings. They'll hopefully be provided w/ more choice...and I know they don't want to live in an elderly home...would rather stay in their own home - it's everything to them, their pride, their past, their place of comfort & security... Sure, we and others give them a hand. Cleaning, cooking meals. Includes Blue Nurses. Thumbs up to them. But we need to work out how to cater to Mum's sleeping, toilet, washing needs once she requires a wheelchair f/t as her house is two storeys w/ steps that are becoming harder for her to climb each year due to her polymiositis. And she is determined not to move. Lots of thinking & planning involved. The rapid train, if they're still alive (hope) will give me an opportunity to take them on a holiday (wheelchair accessible) w/out the pain of the airport...or long dangerous car ride...and still getting to the destination quickly. And the NBN will help communication between medical scientists and specialists and other researchers that will help speed up treatments, cures and longevity opportunities. I love the title of the Tortoise album: Millions Now Living Will Never Die N'

D Mick Weir

4/08/2011Enjoy [b]Tony's Travels[/b] Fiona K @ New Matilda http://newmatilda.com/2011/08/04/tony039s-travels

nasking

4/08/2011[quote] I am not a lateral thinker, indeed if I can even be called a thinker of any sort[/quote] Gravel, don't underestimate yerself...luv yer input. [quote]Can't wait for this film to get an Oz release: You Betcha![/quote] LOL Feral. The sad thing is that some Tea Party members are genuine about their desire to create an America that is more secure debt-wise & not involved in bogus wars like Iraq...but have been conned by the likes of Palin who is no more than a self-promoter and celebrity these days...probably preparing for a job on Fox News like Mike Huckabee (who once had some integrity, in the Clinton era, but sold himself to the dark realm). Sarah is so opportunistically wishy washy these days...so desperate for the limelight, undermining her governor efforts. A populist w/out the popularity. Ironic ain't it. I reckon Michelle Bachman has more steel in her spine than Palin...I'm not keen on many of her views...but she's one determined lady...dangerously obstinate...but didn't bend on the debt ceiling deal like the flipfloppin' phoney hedge fund lovin' Mitt Romney. I can't stand phoney family values guys...whether they be Mormon, Christian or Muslim. Catering to the Tea Party in order to beat Bachman in Iowa caucuses is just plain stupid and bleedin' obvious on Romney's part. Phoney as his looks. The Tea Party true believers need to have a good look at the self-serving donors/corporate aristocracy, media & celebs who are taking their party hostage...and infiltrating thruout...preparing to blow them up when their use by date is up...the way the Reaganites & GW Bush lot did w/ the evangelicals way back when. Being part of the Republican party will eventually see them diluted...and give many people the impression they don't really have strong principles. I remember communicating w/ Independents during the Iraq War who really gave a damn...some of who woulda joined the Tea Party. They would never have supported Fox News & the greed for gain, war obsessed Republican party. Not sure how they got brainwashed to join up w/ the Repugs...I guess it has somethin' to do w/ the bailouts...and the paranoia that Mick on here pointed out via a link above. Ya gotta wonder why so much media doesn't question the fact that GW Bush & co. took America to the wall, started the bailouts, demanded the same of Obama...and then majority of Republicans conveniently fled leaving poor Obama holding the bailout can...and copping the blame...whilst Repugs pointed fingers. Morally bankrupt stuff & opportunistic...hoping that voters have short memories. I think CNN pointed this out the other day. Good for them. N'

Lyn

4/08/2011Hi Michael Annabel Crab thinks just like you, me, Ad, all of us: All current trends are alarming: Hockey annabelcrabbAnnabel Crabb Was this Joe Hockey interview scripted by Clarke and Dawe? http://tinyurl.com/4xr9g3q Cheers Lyn

nasking

4/08/2011Michael, thnx for the Lateline transcript. Joe Hockey said: [quote]If you're cashed up, you're powerful, and China is very powerful at the moment because it's cashed up.[/quote] A reminder Joe: [quote]China is by far the largest foreign holder of US debt, with holdings of $1.16 trillion in May[/quote] Was that a good idea Joe? The Australian government is borrowing based on futureproofing & dealing w/ problems based on neglect by the Howard government & some state governments. People borrow to build a home for them & their family. If they are smart about it the home will benefit them and their family for decades...is a useful secure investment and if built appropriately is flexible enuff to be altered and added to...can even be sold to others in the future if need be. The home can have various functions. Home-based work by NBN for instance. Part of the business process. Even a garden w/ veges and to get good sun & air (helps increase seretonin levels to avoid depression). If it's a good idea to borrow to build a home...or apartments/flats...then why is it a bad idea for the government to have reasonable debt? Whilst heading towards a budget surplus. It seems to me that Joe is thinking small like Luddite's Howard, Abbott, Joyce & Truss (as mentioned by Feral above)... and trying to create the perception that our debt is out of control and similar to Greece & America's, which is untrue. He hopes to wield the axe in the future in order to purge those in the public service who don't fit in w/ his master's ideas. Regardless of their vision & accomplishments. Makes him look like a Stalinist. N'

nasking

4/08/2011Mick LOL. Another great comic strip from Fiona Katauskas. :) Lyn, thnx for all the useful links. Liana Neri's article was useful, concise...particularly as it had links to media scrutiny-related projects, one in Australia which you aptly pointed out: It All Comes Down to trust, Liana Neri ,Upstart [quote]In the UK, the Media Standards Trust runs several projects to foster ‘high standards in news on behalf of the public.’ They include churnalism.com, a search engine helping people determine whether news is journalism or churnalism; the Transparency Initiative, which aims to make online news more transparent; and journalisted.com, a database which provides information about individual journalists. And in Australia, The Wheeler Centre will soon host a discussion, featuring media analysts Margaret Simons and Rod Tiffen, on the hacking scandal and its impact on Australian media.[/quote] again: http://www.upstart.net.au/2011/08/03/it-all-comes-down-to-trust/ The recent problems w/ the media & trust motivates me to urge governments to fund more media/journalism studies in schools...including internet journalism/research & blogging. And ethics classes. Required more than ever. N'

Lyn

4/08/2011Hi Nasking You are keeping me entertained and out of mischief again this morning, thankyou Nasking. So pleased you enjoyed the Liana Neri article , very enjoyable read. The discussion at the Wheeler Centre with Margaret Simons and Rod Tiffen on the hacking scandal with be worth waiting for. I have switched off Hockey now, and am having a great time finding out about the high speed rail study just been released: Study fast tracks high-speed rail link, Stephen Dziedzic , ABC A study into the feasibility of a high-speed rail network connecting eastern seaboard cities has found it could get passengers from Sydney to Brisbane in three hours for as little as $75. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-04/high-speed-rail-feasibility-study/2823760 Cheers :):):)

Gravel

4/08/2011Patricia I was starting to worry about you, as you weren't posting for a while, so glad to see you back. Wow you guys and gals, I've just got through all Lyn's links and now you have given me more. Luckily it is raining here at the moment, although we could do without it, but it gives me a chance to read the extra one's today. I also watched a video of Lateline from last night, I could have almost felt sorry for Hockey, he just didn't have a clue. Most of us had already sussed him out, but to see it again in plain sight was pitiful. I can only hope that the media see a bit of light and go hard on all politicians, especially and including the opposition. Unfortunately the rest of the media don't pick up and run with the bad performances of the opposition and this is what is giving us all the irrits. Watched Julia and Stephen Conroy media thing about the NBN, they were both excellent, no matter how stupid some of the questions were.

Lyn

4/08/2011Hi Gravel What a sweet person you are. We are all thrilled to bits that you are reading the links, as you said it's an education isn't it. We learn so much on the Political Sword with all our brilliant commenters and readers. Stephen Conroy is brilliant, nobody ever trips him up on the NBN, he is across every tiny piece of the policy. Remember the blundering when Howard was in office with Helen Coonen, flapping around Telstra, doing nothing. Of course Julia is lovely, see all the new coloured jackets lately. Cheers :):):):):)

Gravel

4/08/2011Lyn Yes, Julia's jackets are stunning. I just loved it when Stephen laughed and smiled, I didn't realise what an attractive man he was until he actually smiled. Usually I am too busy concentrating on what he is saying because of his accent.

nasking

4/08/2011Hi Lyn, glad you were entertained. :) I found the following article at The Daily Bail useful too...thnx for the link: [quote]Debt & Deficits. Bailout News. Federal Reserve Corruption. Tax Time? Not for Giant Corporations BURLINGTON, Vt., March 27 - While hard working Americans fill out their income tax returns this tax season, General Electric and other giant profitable corporations are avoiding U.S. taxes altogether. With Congress returning to Capitol Hill on Monday to debate steep spending cuts, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said the wealthiest Americans and most profitable corporations must do their share to help bring down our record-breaking deficit. Sanders renewed his call for shared sacrifice after it was reported that General Electric and other major corporations paid no U.S. taxes after posting huge profits. Sanders said it is grossly unfair for congressional Republicans to propose major cuts to Head Start, Pell Grants, the Social Security Administration, nutrition grants for pregnant low-income women and the Environmental Protection Agency while ignoring the reality that some of the most profitable corporations pay nothing or almost nothing in federal income taxes. Sanders compiled a list of some of some of the 10 worst corporate income tax avoiders. 1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. 2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion. 3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS. 4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009. 5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year. 6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction. 7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department. 8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury. 9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction. 10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent. Sanders has called for closing corporate tax loopholes and eliminating tax breaks for oil and gas companies.[/quote] ---------------- Good on Bernie. I dunno how the American people can put up w/ this corporate con over & over again when they are so desperate for revenue. When will the insanity end over there? The pillaging of that country by their corporate aristocracy is gonna take them over the edge. The media over there need to examine in detail how much corporate tax is paid by each company, how much corporate welfare they receive, how much outsourcing they do, if they get tax breaks for relocating overseas, how many people do they employ locally p/t, f/t, casual...and how many jobs have they created the past coupla years whilst examining their overall profits etc. And which politicians they donate to. The truth must come out. I'm off for the nite. Cheers N'

Ad astra reply

4/08/2011Folks Apologies for my absence; I’ve been out shopping for hours and have bought a chainsaw to lop the low hanging branches on our eucalypts and to trim the banksia, casuarina, tea tree and large shrubs that have grown over the last ten years from tiny plantings to very large trees that have become somewhat scraggly. We have covered around half of our six acres with well over a hundred trees and shrubs – Tony Abbott would be proud of us! Working out how to use the chainsaw from the cryptic instructions was quite a task, but I think I have it now. Every stop we made shopping, I took a look at [i]TPS[/i] on the iPad and was enchanted with the high quality comments and links. I have almost caught up and came to the conclusion that it is scarcely necessary to look elsewhere with such an excellent set of links and comments about the day’s happenings to keep us up to date. Thank you to you Lyn for starting our day so well and to all of you who have pointed us to other places. Because of your efforts [i]TPS[/i] continues to be a most informative site; indeed there is scarcely the need or the time to search elsewhere. Thank you Michael for pasting in the Hockey interview on [i]Lateline[/i]. I have seen Joe do some shockers, but can’t remember one worse that last night’s. This is the man who would be Treasurer, yet he was out of touch even with his own policies, particularly the ‘green army’, and was evasive and unconvincing. Fumbling, bumbling, blundering, babbling, bellowing, belligerent, bullying, and I’m sure there must be another descriptor starting with ‘b’! Did he not understand the Direct Action policy? Did he not know the rollout and the cost of the green army? Did he not know the cost of acquiring the vast number of hectares to plant millions of trees and the cost of the trees and the labour? Was he discounting the green army? Does he not know the cost of soil carbon sequestration? How will he manage after he has scrapped the climate change department? And he doesn’t have much time for Treasury either. How will he reduce the public service by 12,000 while Tony builds his green army of 15,000? It’s Alice in Wonderland stuff. When will the media call it as such? And on dirty brown coal fired electricity generators, does he know the feasibility and cost of transforming to a gas fired entity? On matters economic he babbled on at the beginning, but was he talking sense? He evaded saying what the Coalition would do in a downturn, denied being anti-Keynesian, and hoped we would believe that whatever the circumstances the Coalition would handle it better and cheaper and of course with more aplomb. I really wonder what his colleagues thought of his performance last night. Surely they could not regard it as OK, unless they have been so Abbottized that they too believe that content doesn’t count, so long as you can keep babbling until the end and fool the unthinking. Anabell Crabb’s comment about the script being written by Clarke and Dawe was apt. I’ll be concentrating now on preparing something for next week. There will be another piece of Acerbic Conehead satire on Friday: [i]Ol’ King Coal isn’t a merry ol’ soul[/i].

TalkTurkey

4/08/2011Lyn said 'I would be interested to hear who watched Joe Hockey's fumbling, bumbling, stumbling, ..idiotic interview with Tony Jones last night. Anyone who can be bothered watching there is a good laugh to be had. My favourite part is the planting of trees, the 15,000 green army, the multiplication carried out by Tony Jones, Joe Hockey's reply he said "I can Add up" , I said I hope so.' Hockeynomics: $50 000 plus $50 000 _______ $100 000 plus $ 50 000 ________ $150 000 plus S 50 000 ________ ummm, that's er, hang on Tony we'll have it worked out well before the next election,

Lyn

4/08/2011Hi Ad Shopping for hours that is great fun Ad, I love it. Not too sure about those chainsaws though , sounds like boys stuff. Our gardener here uses a chainsaw on the trees and shrubs, I won't let him near my garden. Consequently he doesn't like me, so I call him Edward Scissor Hands. [quote]bought a chainsaw to lop the low hanging branches on our eucalypts and to trim the banksia, casuarina, tea tree and large [/quote] There has been heaps of "WOW" comments today Ad and I have had a great time reading them all, so I can see why you did too. All the shoppers would have thought you were somebody, a Professor, somebody very important, leaning on doorways clicking on your Ipad. Scary about Hockey, heartbeat away from being treasurer of Australia. Pretty sure the Climate change Department aren't very happy with him. Hockey didn't mind using treasury to hide a mole for them did he. See Julie Bishop is busy today: [i]Bishop spruiks carbon tax petition, Channel 9[/i] Federal Deputy Opposition Leader Julie Bishop has collected signatures in downtown Perth for a petition calling for a national plebiscite on the proposed carbon tax. She said Ms Gillard should call an election on "the most significant reform" in decades and if she wasn't prepared to do that, she should hold a plebiscite http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8281411/bishop-spruikes-carbon-tax-petition Cheers :):):):):)

Lyn

4/08/2011Hi Talk Turkey I think Joe got multplication mixed up with addition, wonder if he knows take away sums. Poor Joe those 15,000 tree planters were a mathematical nightmare. Like your sample of Hockeynomics. Cheers :):):):):)

Feral Skeleton

4/08/2011As was observed elsewhere today, why is it that the Coalition are concerned with the jobs of everyone else except Public Servants, who they just can't wait to sack if/when they get into power? Of course, we all know the answer to that question. They, like the Republicans in the United States, are members of a Conservative group, named by Mitch McConnell, Senate Leader of the Minority in the US, 'The Great Dismantlers'. That is, their aim is to pull apart the Social Safety Net put together over many decades by Social Democrats and replace it with Private Enterprises in every sector. Reprehensible ideology, to be sure, but nothing seems to be able to stop these knaves from their relentless putsch.

Feral Skeleton

4/08/2011Did anyone else see the old soupuss, Julie Bishop, attempting to scare the incontinenece pads off all the people in the Aged Care Homes today as she linked the PM's cleaning up of another mess left behind by Howard, the Aged Care sector, with the Price on Carbon? In another case of the lies and the lying liars that tell them, Julie Bishop said that the sector won't be able to afford to make any changes because all their spare cash will be used to pay electricity bills, which will rise to exorbitant levels after the Price on Carbon is introduced(I refuse to pander to the Opposition and call it a Carbon Tax). Which, of course, and conveniently for Ms Bishop(unmarried and childless Deputy Leader of the Opposition that she is), completely overlooks the fact that electricity bills are rising right now due to the lack of a Price on Carbon.

Lyn

4/08/2011Hi Feral I have been reading with interest about your community efforts, congratulations for all your hard work. Andrew feels sorry for you: @AndrewCatsarasAndrew Catsaras Just received our Census form from the Census deliverer, in the dark and down a long dirt road. [b]Ah bless 'em, not rain, nor sleet, nor snow![/b] 19 minutes agovia webFavoriteRetweetReply I have nearly finished fall of Giants, by Ken Follett a fabulous read rivetting Feral if you can get hold of a copy. A lot of the characters remind me of the Liberals, one part touches on Winston Churchill, what an awful person he was, your words feral Reprehensible ideology was his DNA. [quote]a saga of unfolding drama and intriguing complexity, Fall of Giants moves seamlessly from Washington to St. Petersburg, from the dirt and danger of a coal mine to the glittering chandeliers of a palace, from the corridors of power to the bedrooms of the mighty. As always with Ken Follett, the historical background is brilliantly researched and rendered, the action fast-moving, the characters rich in nuance and emotion. It is destined to be a new classic[/quote]. http://www.penguin.ca/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9780525951650,00.html Cheers :):):):):)

John

4/08/2011Hi, All I've been realllllly busy foor teh last 10 days or so, so I am a bit behind. However, I did laugh at Joe Hockey's newly-found righteousness on interest rates funny. remember, it was ALL the government's fault if they went up. Not once - NEVER - did he say anything about the 7 consecutive rises after Howard/Costello budgets pumped so much money into the economy it overheated. Mind you, John Robertson in NSW (Labor) also has a newly-found sense of righteousness, including about the Hilltop rifle range. Its approval was by the previous Labor Government. :) John

John

4/08/2011But wait, there's more! School Certificate to be put out of its misery. New (brief) Posting at http://truepolitik.blogspot.com/2011/08/nsw-school-certificate-going.html :) John (I need sleepzzzzzz)

Feral Skeleton

4/08/2011lyn, Thank you for your warm thoughts. :) I had a day off today, sort of. Instead of Censusing I did the weekly shopping. Oh well, it was a change. Amazing, isn't it that the Coalition just won't take 'No' for an answer when it comes to their longed for election, or, at the very least, a plebiscite about the Climate Change policy. No matter how many times it is pointed out to them that the Labor government have taken a Climate Change policy to the last 2 elections, and a Price on Carbon was integral to that, the Opposition continue to cry that they have no mandate for it. No matter how many times it is pointed out to them that the Westminster system of government means that the duly-formed government of the day can do just about whatever they want to, within reason, whilst in government, so long as it passes both Houses of Parliament, the Opposition refuse to listen. No matter how many times it is pointed out to the Oppositiion that this is not America, and we don't have Recall Elections when x amount of signatures are obtained on a petition, the Opposition refuse to listen. No matter how many times an effective journalist like Tony Jones publically eviscerates a Coalition Shadow Minister like Joe Hockey and exposes one of their very few publically-enunciated policies for the tissue of lies forming a fig-leaf over the smoke and mirrors of it's insubstantial discorporeal form, the Opposition refuses to take a backward step or acknowledge their political feebleness. No,instead, they don't even pause for breath as they continue on their Machiavellian way pouring poison into the political well, and altering forever the foundations on which our democracy has rested, thrived and prospered. The Opposition won't be happy until they have replaced 'Democracy House' with the political equivalent of an American Tract House: 'Little boxes, little boxes, little boxes made of ticky tacky.'

BSA Bob

4/08/2011F.S at 6.14 Everything's grist to the Abbott mill. Talk of all those public servants going but he's not averse to trotting out the feelgood side of Government employment in his economic rants- the "nurse & policeman" coupling being worse off gets a thrashing as he tells us all how dreadful things will be under any Government initiative.

Ad astra reply

4/08/2011Hi Lyn Julie Bishop is following the Abbott line - never take no for an answer, lie and deceive, especially to the vulnerable, and keep on pressing, like a kid pestering its mother for a sweet, for whatever they want. They really believe in pester power. The shoppers didn’t get to see my iPad – I just sat quietly in the car while my wife worked the shops. [i]TPS[/i] tops the shops every time! FS Good to see you had a day off foot slogging the Census papers. I see you have drawn the same conclusion as me. Nothing will stop the Coalition poisoning the well. I’m off to watch [i]Lateline[/i].

Patricia WA

4/08/2011FS - it's probably easier to ask you rather than calling the Census Enquiry Service. I've gone to www.census.gov.au but it is all so busy with so many sub-sections and such a lot of information. So much so that I don't seem to be able to find my way to an actual census form for completion, or a step by step guide on when it will become available and what to do when it it does. Where is the Census form? I am wondering if my age has at last caught up with me. In a way I hope it has, because otherwise I can imagine people of limited education or poor English not coping well with this!

Jaeger

4/08/2011Patricia, If you go to http://www.census.gov.au you should see a "Start eCENSUS" button underneath the "Start Accessible Version" link. Click that. You will need a census form number and the eCensus envelope that should have been delivered with your Census form. Hope that helps.

Lyn

4/08/2011Hi patricia I hope I am not butting in, but in case Feral doesn't come back. Have you got an online form , you need a "census Number" then follow the instructions. A 12 digit number that lets you in. Cheers :):):)

Patricia WA

4/08/2011Thank you Jaeger and Lyn! Now that was easy peasy, so why did my address as shown on the front of my Census form, not take me there immediately? Something which occurs to me - I completed the census form then and there. It was accepted and I can't revisit it. I have a receipt no. and a print out. What happens if I conk out before 09/08? I don't plan to, but it could and I imagine in a few cases will happen.

TalkTurkey

4/08/2011Ad astra said "TPS tops the shops every time!" Ad that you can say so after all this time makes us all feel good. Well all us Goodwillians anyway, and if it akes illwillians feel worse that makes us feel better too! Yet paradoxically, if it makes illwillians feel [i]better[/i], that too makes the rest of us feel better too! To recast the old saying: It's a good wind that blows nobody any ill. There you go, I genuinely wish that our few nasties feel some happiness via this gammaglobulin of ideas, poor buggers, surely our repeated sincere wishes for their happiness must find resonance`somewhere in their hearts! Because if not, well, that's just too bad I guess. But that you yourself are pleased day by day by the Sword, Ad, that is something special and rare, and we all share that pleasure. Regards and thanks to the long-suffering inaudible Web Monkey clambering around the filaments with his Monkey Wrench. :)

TalkTurkey

4/08/2011akes, makes. Hate typos. Conroy is not mincing words, nor Shorten, nor Combet, Wong, more and more Government parliamentarians are speaking with strength and assurance, and they will increasingly now, so much of their agenda is either in place or in train that they can. I just want to see them get really strident, as *J*U*L*I*A* is doing as I write to Tony Jones who is a SLEAZE!

Patricia WA

4/08/2011Isn't that odd - if I click on www.census.gov.au I go directly to the page with the eCENSUS button the same as with the address which Jaeger gave me http://www.census.gov.au. But if I Google from scratch using that same address I get my original very general and very confusing first page. The mysteries of the internet!

Patricia WA

4/08/2011Back to business i.e. opposition pollie bashing (metaphorically, anyway!) While I was out of range Abbott seems to have decided quite suddenly to have decided to take time out. Did he nominate an Acting One I/C? Or is it automatically Julie Bishop? Isn't blissful without him?

Feral Skeleton

4/08/2011BSA Bob, The 'Nurse and Policeman on Average Wages' is only to be outshone by the 'Opposition Leader and the Child Care Centre Owner with the $7000,000 2nd Mortgage'. Life's tough for them, doncha know? ;-)

NormanK

4/08/2011I've been struggling now for a week or more to come to grips with why it is that I feel as though I have nothing particularly useful to say. Some of it can be put down to fatigue, some of it down to feeling jaded and that it has all been said before and even a bit of 'what's the point?' What's the point in pointing out Turnbull's half-truths uttered during his Press Club address? He's made statements before about a 'more effective way of delivering fast broadband' and no amount of quibbling over what he means by 'effective' and 'fast' is going to stop him from using such misleading terms to hoodwink the unwary. So I'm a bit over it all, as the expression would have it. However, watching the PM on [i]Lateline[/i] tonight caused the proverbial penny to drop. Much of what we (the on-line world) have been saying for the last twelve months or more, certainly since Abbott stabbed Turnbull (heh, heh), has now found its way into the mainstream. Murdoch, his press and its machinations are all over the news. Abbott and his propensity for delivering the message that each individual audience wants to hear even if it contradicts previous statements or makes no sense in terms of primary school chemistry or repudiates his own policy stance is now being discussed more widely. Ethics and professionalism (or the lack thereof) among journalists is getting a decent amount of air-time. I'm sure there are more but I just can't think of them at the moment. Oh yes, the fact that quite a few episodes of [i]MediaWatch[/i] have run items that could be said to have been lifted from the blogs - saying much the same things and using very similar documents. All of this leads to a feeling that at present I don't need to rail against the things that annoy me because they are currently in the public sphere where they rightly belong. It remains to be seen what comes of their exposure but it certainly feels redundant for me to give further voice to them. The good news is that I entertain a sense of these issues bubbling up from on-line discussions and popping to the surface where others can discuss them. Each individual blog or on-line news outlet or social media group may be small in and of themselves but collectively they do serve a purpose. If the media feel it is their job to hold governments to account (I don't share the currently prevailing view of what that expression means but no matter) then on-line groups such as TPS do have a role to play in holding the media to account and I suspect that we are seeing some of the fruits of our labours. Perhaps I'm kidding myself but I'll sleep better tonight believing that our job is done - at least for a couple of days - until the next bit of stupidity raises its head and demands a swift clout. Sadly, Hockey's mumbling, bumbling effort last night could not even stir me. I wonder what it will take to rouse me? Either from my lethargy or from a well-earned rest at the end of a long game.

Patricia WA

5/08/2011If it's any comfort, NormanK, I had to take myself out of range for a few days recently with much the same sense of lethargy, or having nothing relevant to say, or not needing to, or whatever. It was odd watching Hockey last night. He was for me as I have always known him to be. But it was as if Tony Jones, was either seeing him as that for the first time or, more likely, had decided that he was going to show him up. He really seemed to enjoy helping the man look the fool he is! Surely no self respecting journalist could let a lazy, 'mumbling, bumbling' and dishonest politician like that win public office with responsibility for the nation's economy and finances without proper scrutiny?

Casablanca

5/08/2011FS I was curious about your statement that Julie Bishop was single and childless as I thought that she was twice married and childless. Turns out that she married property developer Neil Gillion in 1983. They divorced 5 years later. For the past 15 years Bishop has been in a relationship with Dr Peter Nattrass, former Lord Mayor of Perth. He is a gynaecologist and has 4 children from his first marriage. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Bishop#cite_note-trueblue-2; http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/i-might-be-arrogant-not-mad/story-e6frg12c-1111114426192; http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/true-blue-to-her-boots/2007/09/06/1188783415598.html?page=3; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Nattrass#cite_note-perthnow1-3] Patricia WA You asked 'Did [Abbott] nominate an Acting One I/C? Or is it automatically Julie Bishop? When in Opposition the Coalition nominates the Deputy Leader of the Liberals as the 2-i-c and therefore as the Acting Leader of the Opposition when the Leader is away. It is only when in Government that they enter into the arrangement whereby the Leader of the Nationals becomes the Deputy Prime Minister and therefore the Acting PM, taking precedence over the Deputy Liberal Leader.

Lyn

5/08/2011 [b]TODAY’S LINKS[/b] [i]The United States of Chris Mitchell, Sally Neighbor,The Monthly[/i] The Power of Rupert Murdoch and the Australian’s Editor-in-Chief Mitchell has styled himself as the most powerful media executive in the land and transformed Rupert Murdoch’s flagship into a journal whose political impact far outweighs its modest circulation of 130,000 on a weekday. http://www.themonthly.com.au/power-rupert-murdoch-and-australian-s-editor-chief-united-states-chris-mitchell-sally-neighbour-3589 [i]Freedom Now! , Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] the greatest Australian-American ever to walk this earth in Gucci slippers and a camel housecoat is holding governments to account around the world by publishing creative perspectives about climate science from self-proclaimed peers of the realm, http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/2011/08/freedom-now.html [i]Joe Blow, Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] You can add up can you Joe? You stupid fool. You claim that according to Coalition COSTINGS your Climate Plan would be only $3.2 billion over four years. You made it again today. You also make the claim that you can add up. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/joe-blow/ [i]Fair game – The Opposition’s sustained attack on the Public Service, The Conscience Vote[/i] So, Mr Abbott, Mr Robb, Mr Hockey – here’s your chance. If you have proof to back up your accusations, deliver it to the Australian Federal Police.Right now. Put up or shut up. http://consciencevote.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/fair-game-the-oppositions-sustained-attack-on-the-public-service/ [i]Weird Scenes Inside The Murdoch News Mines, Darryl Mason, The Orstrahyun[/i] News Limited executive editor (does that mean he just gets a nicer chair?) Alan Howes explains how the Murdoch tabloids act as "the watchdog" of modern politics (Headline : Taking A Rude Joy In Kicking The Watchdog) in this lovely piece of corporate propaganda, distributed widely, of course, across the Digital Rupert media landscape : http://theorstrahyun.blogspot.com/ [i]Believing Barry O’Farrell could cost you “up to” 100 IQ points, John Quggin[/i] The NSW government has released a a frothing at the mouth claiming that a carbon price will devastate the economy. As Mary McCarthy would say, every single word in it is a lie, including “a” and “the”. Top billing has to go to that old http://johnquiggin.com/2011/08/04/believing-barry-ofarrell-could-cost-you-up-to-100-iq-points/#more-10057 [i]NSW School Certificate Going , John, True Politik[/i] The NSW government has announced that 2010 is to be last year of the NSW School Certificate. It will be replaced bya statement of achievement when students leave in Years 10, 11, or 12. http://truepolitik.blogspot.com/2011/08/nsw-school-certificate-going.html [i]Abbott’s European holiday might make him hot and bothered, Rooted[/i] Abbott recently argued that under a price on carbon, breakfast cereals like Weet-Bix will become more expensive, and pharmacies will shut down.Then, according to his logic, is he not worried that Weet-Bix and other essential groceries will be unaffordable on his European holiday? http://blogs.crikey.com.au/rooted/2011/08/04/abbotts-european-holiday-might-make-him-hot-and-bothered/ [i]One piece of news; two somewhat different approaches, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison[/i] It’s a pretty good argument for reading more than one media outlet, isn’t it? http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/08/04/one-piece-of-news-two-very-different-approaches/ [i]Unique new building material self regulates heat, Anthony Watts, Watts Up With That[/i] If, for example, the required optimum temperature in a room is 22°C, the material can be fixed so that it starts absorbing any excess heat above that temperature.The heat-regulating material can be used in existing buildings as well as during the construction http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/03/unique-new-building-material-self-regulates-heat/ [i]Hockey says conservatives may axe climate dept, Eco News[/i] He then accused the department of “absolutely” spreading false figures and suggested it could be one of the first to go under the Liberal-National plan to downsize the public service. http://econews.com.au/news-to-sustain-our-world/hockey-says-conservatives-may-axe-climate-dept/ [i]Finally! Climate Policies Explained, Martin Jones, New Matilda[/i] But don’t kid yourself: the Coalition under Abbott aren’t really interested in a low-carbon economy; the ALP would like a low-carbon economy, but only where it’s not too difficult; and the Greens sincerely want a zero-carbon economy, but will want to change your lifestyle to achieve that http://newmatilda.com/2011/08/04/finally-climate-policies-explained [i]Some sweet succour for Gillard over the weekend, lukeryan, The Vine[/i] I really think the only hope for Labor is to just get the thing passed as quickly as possible and then leave as much time as they can for everybody torealise that it's having pretty much zero impact upon their lives. And also perhaps for Tony Abbott to find some way of being shot out of a cannon. http://www.thevine.com.au/blog/lukeryan/news-you-can-use-_-syria-sends-in-tanks-to-crush-protests,-kills-over-10020110801.aspx [i]Senator Abetz discusses the Carbon Tax, Australian Politics TV[/i] This video comes to us from Senator Eric Abetz. It’s exactly what you expect it to be. Abetz declaring the evils of the carbon price without ever providingany proof or sources to verify his claims http://australianpoliticstv.org/2011/08/04/senator-abetz-discusses-the-carbon-tax/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_ [i]Can Australian high speed rail overcome its bumpy history? Phillip Laird, The Conversation[/i] In August 1998, Prime Minister Howard announced with much fanfare that Speedrail had been invited to prepare and submit a “proved up bid” at “no net cost to the taxpayer”; the bid cost over $20 million http://theconversation.edu.au/can-australian-high-speed-rail-overcome-its-bumpy-history-2640 [i]Syria: UN Security Council Statement Close to Useless, Peter, Aussie Views News[/i] Amnesty International has a clear view about Syria’s murder of its own citizens. They want the matter referred to the International Criminal Court. Urging the Security Council to take definitive action three days ago, http://www.aussieviewsnews.com/2011/08/04/un-syria-statement/#comment-217 [i]Murdoch’s sins go way beyond the hacking scandal,Maria Armoudian,, Grist[/i] Murdoch's News Corp. empire is invisible and insidious -- lowering journalistic standards and public trust that took decades to establish. And alongside thedeprecation of what should be an honorable profession is the loss of deeper understandings about complex matters such as climate science. http://www.grist.org/climate-change/2011-08-03-murdochs-sins-go-way-beyond-the-hacking-scandal [i]Not even wrong” is not praise, John Quiggin, Crooked Timber[/i] Following my stoush with Murdoch, a commenter pointed me to this piece by Stephen Williamson of WashingtonUniversity at St Louis, who has apparently been asked to review the book for the Journal of Economic Literature. http://crookedtimber.org/2011/08/04/not-even-wrong-is-not-praise/

debbiep

5/08/2011 Your voices ARE important normank ,and all. Don't ever feel useless in your' fight' . Nor lethargy patrica . Not only do all the comments combined inspire, they also shows many others 'out there' that they are not alone in their feelings. Your words and thoughts will remain on the internet for ever, your great grand kids may be inspired one-day by reading them. Remember there are many who do not have the confidence to comment or put thoughts out there. But can carry the message, your words , across to other forums- and in different ways even in conversations on the street. Everyone's Knowledge and thoughts add up . More so if it is your beliefs. :) i]Hope that's not to deep [/i]

Ad astra reply

5/08/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Jaeger

5/08/2011Patricia, Google may have an out-of-date version of the page. A few days ago, there wasn't a clickable link to eCensus - they asked you to copy and paste or type the address manually "for security reasons"(!) Thankfully, cooler heads have prevailed.

nasking

5/08/2011As I wrote at GT: I believe there is no greater indictment of the Howard government’s failure to futureproof this country in their too oft “laid back in the hammock we’ll let business go rampant” approach than the 7.6 billion dollar profit announced last night by Rio Tinto. It makes a mockery of Tony Abbott & his supporters kowtowing to rich miners’ demands when it comes to the Super Profits Mining Tax & the carbon price. If John Howard had not let these corporations write his resource/commodity policies and had put in place an appropriate mining tax, we would now see some of those profits streaming into other sectors. It’s a disgrace. More pillaging of Australia’s finite resources that assists many well-off overseas investors…due to political cowardice & inaction. ———————————— Furthermore, the increasingly desperate & strained looking Peter Reith, former Howard govt minister and influential right-wing character, once again revealed the grotesque & yet predictable intentions that lie beneath the Coalition. On SKY NEWS today he called for an “austerity package” & more IR Reform. Reith & some of the supportive, usual suspect media, are opportunistically & irresponsibly using the present EU & American economic problems to talk down the Australian economy & government… when in fact Australia is in a much better position than many other countries. Our interest rates are high enuff to provide us w/ a useful easing lever. Kudos to the Reserve Bank for that…tho, I do think they went a 1/4 to 1/2% too high…but then, we do have a two speed economy & some irresponsible house auctioneers…and the banks were pushing the rates up anyway. We also have a high dollar that partially protects us from oil increase pressures…and if that dollar weakens then all the better for Aussie manufacturers, exporters & retail outlets. Taking into account of course that price pressures will arise based on possible decreases in demand from economically affected nations. However, we do offer a good product, which is why it is essential we keep this country clean & green, less toxic…and protect our goods from blight, diseases and horrid pesticides, damaging hormone injections…and even be very cautious about introducing genetically modified crops etc. We want to be friendly clean & green competitors & providers during hard times. The idea that we just rush headlong into “austerity measures” that will undermine worker’s conditions, punish the disadvantaged and damage public service & small business sectors is just plain stupid…and demonstrates that many in the Coalition and their media supporters are more interested in sabotaging the economy to win power & kowtow to their donors than supporting the government in its positive agenda for growth in an energy & communication & retail & healthcare/education transitional social economy. Why doesn’t that surprise me? One only has to look in Peter Reith’s face to see that he is not telling it as it is. N’

nasking

5/08/2011In response to the following comment at GT: [quote]“Although a double dip should put ‘carbon pollution’ on hold.”[/quote] To a degree…but it also provides us w/ an opportunity to slightly lower our carbon price…yet use early compensation as stimulus in tandem w/ rate cuts to deal w/ the economic waves. No other handouts necessary. The speeding up of the rollout of the NBN…and even the beginning of high speed train projects w/ assistance of both State & Federal govt funding & private enterprise could see further stimulus if required. It’s better than war…which I’m worried the Americans will opt for, as they did under Roosevelt. ------------------------------------------- Also: In regard to “austerity measures” I’d like to point out the anemic growth in the UK: >>[quote]The Bank of England (BoE) held interest rates on Thursday at their current historic low of 0.5 percent after weaker than expected gross domestic product (GDP) figures last week effectively killed off any hope of a rate rise this year. The Bank also maintained monetary easing at its current level of 200 billion pounds ($326.3 billion). The move had been widely expected after data published last week showed the UK economy grew by less than had been hoped. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) reported GDP increased by a mere 0.2 percent in the second quarter of 2011, following an increase of 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2011. The ONS said the weaker than expected growth was the result of a number of special events in the period; the additional April bank holiday; the royal wedding and the after-effects of the Japanese tsunami among them.[/quote] more here: http://www.cnbc.com/id/44003504 Our higher interest rates help us deal w/ the unexpected & other damaging events. It’s why having Superannuation is helpful too…it’s another cushion in bad economic times. N’

BSA Bob

5/08/2011F.S. at 11.35 last night. You're right of course, how callously indifferent of me to forget these poor, suffering people. We should all pull together in the noble cause of putting them in their rightful place.

Lyn

5/08/2011 Hi Ad Joe Hockey decided to talk again this morning, or should I say bumble, stumble, but, but, argue, gaffe, goof on radio: [i]Minchin savages Turnbull in open letter Jeremy Thompson[/i]ABC Minchin slammed frontbencher Malcolm Turnbull's calls for more Liberal moderates in Parliament http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-05/minchin-lashes-out-at-turnbull/2825436 [i]Joe Hockey on the 'GFC2' and Minchin's letter, Jon Faine, ABC[/i] On the topic of an open letter written by former Liberal Senator Nick Minchin about Malcolm Turnbull, Hockey says he respects that Mr Minchin is now a private citizen, but 'I don't think its particularly helpful'. "I'd be reducing government expenditure, I'd be paying down debt," says the former Howard Government minister, however he would also cut taxes - especially the carbon tax. http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2011/08/05/3286082.htm?site=melbourne Cheers :):):):)

Patricia WA

5/08/2011Thanks debbiep! I hope you realise that your voice is important too! This is not the first time you have appeared to lift my flagging spirits! Thanks too, Jaeger, for another reason to persist with questions I sometimes feel are admissions of massive ignorance or approaching senility! A new and self explanatory term for me - [i]clickable link![/i]

Ad astra reply

5/08/2011Hi Lyn I heard Joe Hockey again this morning. Again he was full of bluster. He talked about the need to pay down Government debt in the face of the possibility of another recession, but did not explain how, particularly as he would also reduce taxes and thereby revenue. It ‘magic pudding’ stuff that leaves him looking inept and often stupid and disingenuous. What a contrast with Julia Gillard’s proficient performance on [i]Lateline[/i] last night, where she had credible answers to each question and at the same time was not prepared to be bullied by Tony Jones into ‘rule in, rule out’ games, and deftly swept aside his gotcha attempts. At the end he said: “[i]Julia Gillard, I've learnt not to pursue those questions without getting the same answer over and over and over again, so, we'll leave you there.”[/i] I really hope he remembers what he learned and really does ‘leave it there’ in future.

TalkTurkey

5/08/2011Anyone who has watched/read Sloppy Joe's performance on Tony Jones the night before last must know once and for all that the man is utterly out of his depth. Ash Ghebranious tells it like it is, see Lyn's Links today. Thanks Lyn. Just reading your Links is like reading a sizeable article, and in a sense it is our Thesaurus, as individual articles are like Dictionary definitions. That's why your work is so valuable, it is in a different plane from what we of the common mob do. Not that I'm knocking the common mob, no. I'm 100% behind debbiep where she says "Your voices ARE important normank ,and all. Don't ever feel useless in your' fight' . Nor lethargy patrica . Not only do all the comments combined inspire, they also shows many others 'out there' that they are not alone in their feelings. Your words and thoughts will remain on the internet for ever, your great grand kids may be inspired one-day by reading them." I too think that we of the blogosphere are gradually turning things our way, the Australian Apathy Lump is like the Titanic to turn, and we have only paddles, but we can splash and we can yell too and do our best to get others on board to help us mix our metaphors. :) But anyone who watched Tony Jones last night interrupting er interviewing *J*U*L*I*A* will know that he is a vile self-important **** [insert own noun] who having demolished Hockey the night before, decided he could and would do likewise to her. Well he interrupted her so many times, if manners maketh man then that is what he is not. And he didn't just interrupt, he insisted on interrupting, and she unlike him has the decency and manners to defer when he does insist on overriding her. Not that he laid a glove on her, she waited to poke him while he flurried useless punches at her. He's a boor, Jones, sorry but it's true.

nasking

5/08/2011[quote]Federal Deputy Opposition Leader Julie Bishop has collected signatures in downtown Perth for a petition calling for a national plebiscite on the proposed carbon tax. [/quote] Lyn, how American of her. And hasn't that approach worked out so well for Americans? Nothing but a political civil war that has damaged theirs, and the world economy. Bishop is a fool. One desperate cockroach that is transforming into a dodo. ------------ BTW, have ya noticed the usual Friday beatup...bashing the government non-stop for the weekend?...useful for distorting the polls, as usual. the government needs to match or outdo the Opposition on the weekend. 110% effort. Have a great weekend all. Thnx for a good week. Lots of useful & insightful comments & links. N'

jj

5/08/2011AA, If i dared to say what Nasking has just said of Bishop, of Gillard then you would ban me from here! Double standards... double standards.

jj

5/08/2011TT, So it is ok for Tony Jones to interrupt and destroy Hockey (how you put it), but not do the same for Gillard? Hypocrisy reigns supreme on this site

Jason

5/08/2011jj, Nasking didn't say anything offensive to start with! just pointed out a fact that Bishop is desperate,and her petition will amount to nothing. Just face it no rally organised by 2GB, petitions by Bishop or any other stunt is going to change the minds of those who support a carbon tax! Even Abbott had to leave the field of battle because he's not up to it! what was it he use to say before he went on holiday? "We will fight this tax every second of every minute of every day of every month."

nasking

5/08/2011Thnx Jason, yer spot on. It's not me jj that came up w/ the descriptive "cockroach": [quote]Bishop shrugs off cockroach jibe BY DANIELLE CRONIN, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT 04 Dec, 2009 07:22 AM Mr Abbott was responding to a report that former Opposition leader Malcolm Turnbull and deputy Julie Bishop had a major falling out after Mr Turnbull lost the leadership by one vote. Ms Bishop, who remained as deputy, stated she voted for Mr Turnbull in the secret ballot but pledged her loyalty to the new leader. In an email leaked to the ABC, Mr Turnbull wrote he struggled to reconcile Ms Bishop's declaration of loyalty to Mr Abbott with ''what you were saying to us last night in our apartment ... your scathing attacks on him and his character''. Some Liberals have reportedly dubbed Ms Bishop ''the cockroach'' because she could survive anything, continuing as deputy despite three leadership changes since the 2007 election. [/quote] http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/bishop-shrugs-off-cockroach-jibe/1695931.aspx Nor did we come up w/ "Rodent". They were own goals. :) N'

nasking

5/08/2011As for my labelling Julie Bishop as a "dodo": the phrase "to go the way of the dodo" means to become extinct or obsolete, to fall out of common usage or practice, or to become a thing of the past. (wikipedia) I reckon her USE BY DATE is up. Bishop sounds like a carbon copy of Abbott these days...except on a few FM-related issues. She has little original to say. She's hitched herself to the Abbott wagon...which will crash soon enuff...but the Coalition will be stuck w/ the mangled wreck...right up to the next election. So, yes, I do think that politically Julie Bishop will go the way of the Dodo. The Coalition won't recognise it's a wreck until it's too late because they're so bleedin' myopic, fanatical & obstinate & led by the likes of Allan (hopping up & down) Jones. Not unlike the Tea Party led by the likes of Limbaugh & Beck. The Tea Party still have no idea that they've crashed...and taken part of the US economy & reputation w/ them. Fortunately there is an alternative economy that is not listed on the Dow Jones/ S&P 500. Businesses & projects that do not hang onto their capital like economic saboteurs as many of the corporations do hoping to get rid of Obama & any threat of tax reform that increases revenue. These people actually create jobs because they give a stuff about their fellow countrymen & women...and creating a healthier more sustainable environment for their children to grow up in. Don't forget, many of the successful & useful & dominant players on the internet now were not recognised by the bigwigs in the early days...but we knew of their useful existence and helped them grow. Forest for the trees It's a socioeconomic revolution people. N'

2353

5/08/2011It must be get back at Turnbull day - I heard on the FM Radio news during the day that Minchin had a go at him as well. Anyone got any more details?

Lyn

5/08/2011Hi 2353 He sure did : Minchin savages Turnbull in open letter Jeremy ThompsonABC Minchin slammed frontbencher Malcolm Turnbull's calls for more Liberal moderates in Parliament http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-05/minchin-lashes-out-at-turnbull/2825436 Minchin battles Turnbull – and the imminent Abbott implosion When Minchin starts bagging Turnbull, it means Abbott’s in huge trouble. Barry Everingham comments. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/politics/minchin-battles-turnbull-%E2%80%93-and-the-imminent-abbott-implosion/?utm_ Minchin criticises Turnbull SMH http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/minchin-criticises-turnbull-20110805-1ie75.html Nick Minchin says Malcolm Turnbull has only himself to blame for losing leadership, Joe Kelly, The Australian “His preoccupation reveals a man who can't get over losing the Liberal leadership in 2009, and is desperate for someone to blame for taking it away from him - hence his repeated attacks on conservatives,” he said. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/nick-minchin-says-malcolm-turnbull-has-only-himself-to-blame-for-losing-leadership/story-fn59niix-1226108818379 Cheers:):):):)

Jason

5/08/20112353, http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/enough-malcolm/story-fn558imw-1226108544822 MALCOLM Turnbull seems utterly preoccupied with Liberal Party conservatives ("Malcolm in the middle warns party against arch conservatives", 4/8). His preoccupation reveals a man who can't get over losing the Liberal leadership in 2009, and is desperate for someone to blame for taking it away from him -- hence his repeated attacks on conservatives. Having himself taken the leadership from Brendan Nelson, Turnbull has only himself to blame for the failure of his year-long leadership of the Liberal Party. It was his deficiencies as a leader -- not those terrible conservatives -- that led to his demise. He should concentrate now on supporting Tony Abbott and being a committed team player, rather than publicly attacking those he wrongly blames for his failed leadership. Nick Minchin, Adelaide, SA

nasking

5/08/2011Thnx for the link to The Monthly Lyn...reading what I did of The United States of Chris Mitchell by Sally Neighbor, I'd say this lord of The Australian seems pretty full of himself. Reminds me of a few at the News of the World. All reigns end. Some leave w/ reputation generally intact. Some wait far too long...tick tock tick tock... N'

Lyn

5/08/2011Hi Jason I see Malcolm Turnbull told reporters, there are more important issues than political gossip. Turnbull is wrong there because fact is not gossip. Nick Minchin published the article fact. Do you think Mr Abbott lied then because, every second, every minute, everyday has lapsed for 1 week. Wonder how the Liberals feel, look what has happened, while their iron man prize fighter has been sick, no sorry on holiday's, Health policy, Asylum Seekers with kids on board, Malcolm Turnbull press Club, Boofhead (joe) interview, Minchins article, High Speed Rail, Aged Care. Funny there is dead silence in the media about Mr Abbott's whereabouts, no-one is asking when he is coming back into the arena, no-one saw him at the airport, unless he hired a private jet to ?????. No-one says how long is his holiday, bit sus to me. Cheers :):):):)

Lyn

5/08/2011Hi Nasking I was waiting to see if anyone said anything about Chris Mitchell, and all his power. Glad to hear your opinion of the article, in the Monthly. Looks like it's Mitchell who wields all the power direct from Murdoch, seems more than Hartigan. Your comments are great again today Nasking , thankyou so much. You are correct Julie Bishop is taking her orders direct from the Abbott Phone and she is just the one to repeat the vile properly, word for word, she is good at copying remember. You said Nasking and I couldn't agree with you more: [quote]She's hitched herself to the Abbott wagon...which will crash soon enuff...but the Coalition will be stuck w/ the mangled wreck...right up to the next election. [/quote] Cheers :):):):):)

Jason

5/08/2011Reasonable line up this Sunday! And I wont be at home to watch,so I shall have to put the "wireless" in the truck on for the replay. 8:30am Sky News 601 - Australian Agenda On Sky News Australian Agenda this week ... awaiting confirmation of program guest. Joining host Peter Van Onselen on the Panel, The Australian's Paul Kelly, and Michael Stutchbury. 8:38am Ch7 - Weekend Sunrise - The Riley Diary This week political editor Mark Riley takes takes a look at Julie and Julia....a tale of two strong-willed women, but who was the political masterchef this week????? 8:40am Ch9 - Today on Sunday - The Laurie Oakes Interview The weekly Laurie Oakes interview is in hibernation until further notice. 9:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 - Insiders On Insiders this week, Barrie Cassidy interviews the ShadowImmigration Minister Scott Morrison. On the panel: ABC Online’s Annabel Crabb, the Advertiser’s MarkKenny and the Financial Review’s Brian Toohey. And freelance cartoonist Fiona Katauskas talks pictures with blogger for The Australian, Jack the Insiders. 10:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 @ 5.30pm - Inside Business This week on Inside Business, Rio Tinto CEO Tom Albanese from London. Also Transurban CEO, Chris Lynch. They also look at the week’s turmoil and where it’s all heading. As well, the regular update of the latest news from the markets and Alan Kohler’s incisive commentary on the world of finance. 10.00am Ch10 everywhere but Canberra at 4.30pm - The Bolt Report - Check local program guides for encore performance timings later in the day This week on The Bolt Report, Andrew talks to Lord Nigel Wilson, former Chancellor of the Exchequer to then British PM Margaret Thatcher, and Professor Sinclair Davidson, Professor of Institutional Economics at RMIT University. Joining Andrew for the panel discussion, former Federal Labor MP for the NSW seat of Robertson Belinda Neal, and the Institute of Public Affair's Tim Wilson. 10.30am Ch10 everywhere but Canberra at 4.00pm - Meet the Press - Check local program guides for encore performance timings later in the day Paul Bongiorno is joined by panellists; News.com.au's Malcolm Farr and The Sun Herald's Jessica Wright. They talk to Immigration Minister Chris Bowen and Earthwatch International's Brian Rosborough.

Feral Skeleton

5/08/2011Hello all! :D I've just caught up with all your smashing comments, and yes, NormanK, it can seem at times as though no one is listening to the right on things we have to say so eloquently, or that, in comparison to the big media outlets our voice is mute anyway, but, you know what? I was thinking like you are until recently, especially after the 'Attack of the Club Troppo Termagents', and with the polls taking a nose dive for the ALP, no matter how much good they are doing or how obviously cack-handed is Tony Abbott's execution of the things that matter in politics, ie policies, but then I kept getting pleasant reminders from out of the blue that what I have written has resonated with those self-same people that I think dominate the airwaves and our reading material. Like in Crikey today, it was only one phrase, 'Tony Abbott doesn't know the meaning of No', but Bernard Keane dropped it into his piece about the Coalition and that contemporaneously 'Unmarried and childless'(cheers! Casablanca (K) ) female insect with an exoskelton that scurries around in dark and foetid places like theLiberal Party in Perth, Julie Bishop, and, anyway, it just gave me the sort of warm and fuzzies all over that you get with recognition that 'important' people do stop by TPS on occasion and read and take on board what we have to say. Now, as I have been saying to myself a lot lately, "I wish I could have put it like NormanK just did then". Which means that you have, to my eyes, a way of putting things in a rational and common sense way that people would find it hard to argue with. And, for that reason alone, your contributions to TPS are much valued by me. Sure, it can seem like we are swimming against a tide wherein the massive luxury yachts of the oligarchs and the kleptocrats have turned their engines full-bore against us as we try to paddle upstream against them. However, what you need to think about is that they will eventually run out of the fossil fuels that sustain their putsch, and we, with our clean green propulsion machines, will eventually triumph against them. Well, we will if we don't give up trying to go against the flow they are trying to create. And we need all hands on the oars to keep pumping until our efforts are rewarded and we power past them under our own steam, leaving them in our wake. Which won't happen if we give up the fight prematurely. Then they win. And they should never be allowed to win, considering all the putrid outcomes, both literally, metaphorically and philosophically, that they, and the politicians who do their bidding, represent. A New Dark Ages wouldn't be the half of it. At least in the old Dark Ages the world was still possessed of enough resources and a future to pull out of the black hole it was in. I just don't think that's possible anymore if Mother Nature inflicts Global Warming and Climate Change on us. So we must fight on, making whatever contribution that we can, in whatever small but significant way possible, because we are fighting seriously delusional individuals whose faith in 'God' is seriously clouding their judgement. And they have inveigled their way back into power. And that is what I must fight against until my dying breath. For my sake, for my children's sake, for their children's sake, for the Earth's sake, and not least for the sake of all those people in the world that will suffer unecessary pain and hardship if these Looney Tunes politicians succeed with their polemic in dumbing down the electorate and then swinging them in behind them. I'm a scientist. It is my duty to fight the forces of the unenlighted. That's what The Enlightenment was all about. So I owe it to all the scientists who have fought the good fight against the forces of religious dogma, down the centuries, to keep up the fight. Surely, NormanK, you're up for it too? It's always darkest before the dawn. :)

nasking

5/08/2011Cheers Lyn, you are such a hardworkin' & motivatin' person. Huffington Post YouTube Facebook All Music Guide Wikipedia eMusic Ebay Google Amazon Hallmark e-cards Rotten Tomatoes Metacritic IMDB (International Movie Database) Crikey The list goes on & on... How many really saw these sites & companies coming? It's a transitional economy... Those who oppose the NBN and diversity of energy sources/suppliers & the carbon price need to be asked: Why resist the inevitable? N'

Ad astra reply

5/08/2011Folks I've just posted another clever piece of satire from Acerbic Conehead: [i]Ol’ King Coal isn’t a merry ol’-soul[/i]: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2011/08/05/Ol’-King-Coal-isn’t-a-merry-ol’-soul.aspx

Ad astra reply

5/08/2011Folks I’ve been preparing a piece for Monday: [i]Does the media reflect public opinion, or create it?[/i] and so haven’t been around much. In it I drew on the first of your links Lyn’s, the piece by Sally Neighbour, and on Lindsay Tanner’s book. Thank you TT for your supportive words and NormanK for your comment: “[i]Each individual blog or on-line news outlet or social media group may be small in and of themselves but collectively they do serve a purpose. If the media feel it is their job to hold governments to account (I don't share the currently prevailing view of what that expression means but no matter) then on-line groups such as TPS do have a role to play in holding the media to account and I suspect that we are seeing some of the fruits of our labours.[/i]” I do agree, as does debbiep. My next piece emphasizes that. Thank you Nasking for your several comments. I have the same view of Julie Bishop, although I see jj objects to the tone of your comment and Jason wonders why. Thank you Jason for your Sunday schedule – the [i]Insiders[/i] panel is better than last week. Thank you Lyn for your regular comments and links. Have a quiet weekend. Finally FS, you sound really steamed up as you wrote your last comment, to which I resonate. I hope your Census work will soon be behind you and leave you time to write again. I’m calling it a day.

Lyn

5/08/2011Hi Ad Thankyou too for all your hard work. We all appreciate what you do very much. Thankyou for maintaining and providing TPS for us. You have a nice weekend too. I am going now to have a laugh with Acerbic Conehead. Cheers :):):):):)
I have two politicians and add 2 more; how many are there?