Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott: two gentlemen politicians

It is not often that retiring politicians receive the lavish praise that has been heaped upon the Independents Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott, praise so richly deserved.

In the turmoil of partisan politics where self-interest so often dominates, it was refreshing to witness the way in which these two gentlemen of politics placed the common weal ahead of any self-interest they may have had.

We may have never witnessed such levelheaded politics had there not been a hung parliament after the 2010 election. It fell to the Independents to decide who should govern: Julia Gillard and Labor, or Tony Abbott and the Coalition. Bob Katter soon declared his support for Tony Abbott, probably because his friendship with Kevin Rudd made it difficult for him to support his successor, Julia Gillard. Andrew Crook of the WA Nationals sided with the Coalition, and Greens Adam Bandt with Labor. Andrew Wilkie declared his hand when he rejected Tony Abbott’s promise of a billion dollars for a new teaching hospital in Hobart, an offer he considered to be irresponsible, an offer he believed was designed to benefit Abbott in his quest for prime ministership, rather than the people of Dennison. That left the count at 74 for each side. So it fell to Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott to make the decision about who should prevail. The way they went about making that decision will go down in our political history as an exemplar of sound and careful political judgement.

For seventeen agonizing days, the future governance of the nation swung in the balance. They were not going to be rushed – the final decision was too important. On 7 September 2010, they separately announced their decision to support Julia Gillard. Tony Windsor was brief. Rob Oakeshott took seventeen minutes to explain how he had reached his decision while edgy journalists waited impatiently to hear who he intended to support, characteristically more interested in who had won than the intellectual process of arriving at the decision. Finally, both said they would support Julia Gillard, giving her the 76 votes she needed to govern. He said it had been "an absolute line ball, points decision, judgement call."


The final thumbs-up decision and the explanation.

Oakeshott’s speech is worth replaying for its well thought-out approach to the decision he needed to make. Part1; Part 2. Here is Mark Davis’ account of that historic event. Here are some more images of that fateful day, ‘Independents’ Day’, courtesy of The Age.

Oakeshott emphasized that for them both stability in government was the main concern; they wanted one that would run its full term. The other requirement was that the government produced sound outcomes.

‘Stability’ and ‘outcomes’ were highlighted as essential requisites.


He stressed the need ‘to bring Australia together’, to unify. Divisive politics was anathema to them both. Therefore they looked for the party that presented the best chance to “work with us to keep parliament running as long as possible”. Both had previously been involved in minority parliaments in the NSW legislature. They had experienced how they could work. They had confidence that a prime minister with a sound legislative agenda, and a capacity to collaborate, would likely attract support sufficient to carry it out over the three-year term of the parliament. An Agreement to Form Government was drawn up with the Prime Minister.

Pressed later for more detail, both men said that they had more faith in Julia Gillard’s ability to manage a minority government than they had in Tony Abbott’s. They saw she had superior negotiating skills. They believed her when she said that she wanted the parliament to run its full term. In contrast, they felt strongly that Abbott wanted a quick return to the polls to install a ‘legitimate’ government, having already declared that a Gillard government would be ‘illegitimate’, a position from which he never retreated. They sensed he was not at all interested in a long-run parliament.

Yet they were aware that Abbott badly wanted to be prime minister, and would ‘do anything’ to get that prize in his hands, except, as Windsor later reported, ”to offer his arse, and he would consider even that”, so desperate was he! They reported that he was even prepared to introduce a carbon tax if that was one of their conditions, although he had ruled out any such notion early in the negotiations. They judged Abbott to be not ready for the high office he coveted. After three years of minority government, Windsor confirmed that view when he said that they had “probably done Tony a good turn by not handing it to him”, as clearly he was unready.

Oakeshott indicated that he and Windsor, both representing regional electorates, had been able to negotiate with Julia Gillard a good local package for their electorates, a good regional package that offered equity to regional areas, and a good national outcome. The NBN, climate change, mining and gas extraction, regional education and minimizing the chances of an early election, were crucial elements. They judged Julia Gillard as one who could successfully lead a minority government. Their judgement proved to be correct.

In reaching their initial decision, there were some parliamentary matters that were pivotal. They were interested in assuring ‘supply’ and ‘confidence’, and in lifting parliamentary standards and the quality of committee work.

Strongly supportive of the NBN, they recognized how essential it was for the development of regional business, and for its competitiveness. Armidale, at the centre of Windsor’s electorate of New England, was an early recipient of the NBN. Anecdotal stories soon emerged of how the NBN had benefitted businesses there, especially with the improved upload speeds it offered. Developing a plan for the management of water in the Murray-Darling system was a high priority to them both; they played a major role during committee work in achieving a ‘once in a century’ plan.

They were both convinced that man-made global warming was a reality and that urgent action was necessary to slow it down by reducing carbon emissions. They supported the notion of putting a price on carbon preparatory to moving to an emissions trading scheme. Oakeshott had the preservation of biodiversity at the top of his wish list. They could see that was Julia Gillard’s intent, which contrasted starkly with the Coalition’s Direct Action Plan, one that was supported neither by economists nor environmentalists as an appropriate answer to global warming. Both were prepared to say so, while most of the Fourth Estate avoided doing so.

They were keen to play down the notion that either party had a ‘mandate’ to govern, that one party had dominance over the other, that one party had been ‘endorsed’. Oakeshott emphasized how unimpressed they both were with the state of federal politics, stressed the value of strong independents, and highlighted the importance of private members’ bills. They underscored the need to be committed to the electorates, and for the electorates and the country as a whole to be the drivers for debate. They also proposed a plan for changes in how the House of Representatives worked, a streamlined Question Time, and the prospect of conscience votes on private members’ bills on controversial subjects such as gay marriage. Later they drew up an Agreement for a Better Parliament that reflected these changes, referred to as a ‘new paradigm’ for the parliament, which was publicized as facilitating a ‘kinder, gentler’ parliament, one that responded to the public’s wish for “leaders who ... concentrate on making this country a better place to live”.

Oakeshott described the wide range of politicians, treasury officials, federal departments, and stakeholders they had consulted, as well as Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott, in what he described as an open and transparent process, one that enabled them to reach the decision “to guarantee confidence and supply to a Gillard Government, unless exceptional circumstances dictated otherwise”.

In line with their desire to improve parliamentary committee work, they have both played a central role.

Tony Windsor became a member of the following committees: Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry; Primary Industries and Resources; Regional Australia; Privileges and Members' Interests; and the Joint Select Committees on Australia's Clean Energy Future Legislation and Constitutional Recognition of Local Government. He contributed enormously to the Climate Change Committee. He was also a member of the Speaker’s Panel.

Rob Oakeshott was a member of these committees: House of Representatives Standing Committees on Education and Training; Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs; Infrastructure and Communications, the Joint Statutory Committee on Public Accounts and Audit; the Joint Standing Committees on Foreign Affairs; Defence and Trade; Parliamentary Library; and National Broadband Network; Joint Select Committees on Cyber-Safety; Parliamentary Budget Office; Australia's Immigration Detention Network; Constitutional Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples; and Broadcasting Legislation.

Together, through their committee work, they have had a particularly strong influence on deliberations about the NBN, climate change and carbon trading, the impact of coal seam gas exploration, regional Australia, the Murray Darling water plan, infrastructure, communications, broadcasting, indigenous affairs, and education.

Windsor took a special interest in coal seam gas and its impact on farming and the environment, and was heavily involved in the successful passage of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Amendment that insisted on a proper independent scientific process for evaluating the impacts of coal seam gas and large coal mining developments, especially in prime farmland.

It has not been without its costs to them personally and professionally. They were subjected to biting criticism by Coalition members “for going against the wishes of their ‘conservative’ electorates in supporting a Labor minority government”. The fact that both New England and Lyne voters had convincingly chosen independents rather than conservatives, four times in the case of Tony Windsor and twice in the case of Rob Oakeshott, makes that criticism tenuous.

Abuse was directed to their electorate offices, presumably from angry Coalition supporters who felt they had been robbed of power that was rightfully theirs, but they reported that generally the people they met in the streets of their electorates were supportive of them. Early indications were that Tony Windsor was doing so well in the polls against Barnaby Joyce that Joyce was concerned he may have a battle on his hands. Later Windsor indicated he would not be contesting the seat because of health concerns: “I am experiencing some health issues which have yet to be resolved, and as much as I love this job I don’t want to die in it.” And anyway he felt he had other things that needed his attention – his family and his farming. Likewise, Rob Oakeshott felt his wife and young family of four deserved more of his time. For them, this oft-cited reason for retirement was not an excuse, but a genuine desire to leave the hothouse of intrigue, conflict, double-dealing and sabotage that is federal politics today, and attend to matters closer to home.

It is to their eternal credit that they stuck with Julia Gillard throughout, until her own party removed her. They said their loyalty was based on mutual respect earned as each adhered to the agreement they struck in 2010. They said she had not let them down - she had kept her side of the bargain. In turn, they did not let her down.

In a touching tribute to a wistful Julia Gillard, in his valedictory speech Rob Oakeshott told her he had tweeted her on the night of her replacement by Kevin Rudd: “Your father would have been proud of you”. In the same speech he wryly observed: ““I have been shocked, frankly, over the last three years, to meet ugly Australia and just to see the width and depth of ugly Australia.” Is it a surprise then that he would seek relief from the unremitting nastiness and ugliness that surrounded him for the life of the 43rd parliament?

What did they achieve? Virtually what they set out to achieve. The parliament ran full term, there was no motion of ‘no-confidence’ ever put, despite many threats by the Coalition, ‘supply’ was assured, and in the three years of the Gillard Government almost six hundred pieces of legislation were enacted with 87% bipartisan agreement. The crossbenchers directly altered 27 bills, and had the Government make changes to many others. It was the most productive parliament ever, the complete opposite of what was predicted by Tony Abbott, the Coalition, and much of the media, which preferred to characterize it as an incompetent, ineffectual, chaotic government.

Many major reforms were passed into law – a price on carbon leading to an ETS in 2015, the Murray-Darling water plan, the NBN, the NDIS, the Gonski education reforms being among the most significant. Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott were instrumental in facilitating all of them. They enabled a minority government to be spectacularly successful, even in the face of the most trenchantly negative and obstructionist opposition in recent history. Their role in successful governance has been immense. Not all their wishes reached fruition; for example, the debate on major tax reform was sidestepped, and doubts exist as to the future of the recognition of local government in the Constitution.

When the history of these two gentlemen of federal politics is written, it will make clear just how much they contributed, just how much they enabled, just how much their support of the Gillard Government has meant to our nation. Together they have made a major contribution to good governance.

They were the epitome of commonsense, rational advocacy, balanced judgement and gentlemanly behaviour, always free of the nastiness and spitefulness so often associated with partisan politics.

The hurly-burly of politics too often distracts from the achievements of politicians. When the shouting and tumult of the 43rd parliament finally dissipates, the true value of these two outstanding politicians will on be record for all to see.

We who have followed them with admiration for the last three years acknowledge their enormous contribution. They enjoy our deep respect. We extend to them both our heartfelt thanks and every good wish for the future.


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Ad astra

21/07/2013Folks I am sure you will join with me in lauding Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott, two gentleman politicians, who have been so influential in the 43rd federal parliament, who have done so much to enable the Gillard Government to see out its three-year term, and who have added so much themselves in the framing of legislation and guiding it through the legislative process. We will be eternally grateful to them for their outstanding contribution to the good governance of our nation since 2010. If you wish to email them personally, use the ‘Create your own email’ facility at the top of the left panel or at the top or foot of this piece.

42 long

21/07/2013No hesitation whatever Ad AS. I admire both individuals very much . They must have had to put up with a lot of orchestrated nastiness you can guess from which side of politics, which some would say is par for the course but I don't believe that, for how far is too far and the test of most things is would you want such things be done to yourself your wife or kind? and I know Rob had his campaign vehicles brakes sabotaged. Nasty. Tony Windsors personal following in his electorate was very strong. Robs area would be more unpredictable. The LieNP did their best to vilify them and all independents for that matter. That attitude is consistent with not allowing a free vote in the parliament where tight control wins the day rather than true democracy. Those who assert there is little difference between the two major parties, don't look very hard. The attitudes are different the results sought are different, the supporters are different. Don't vote for a hung parliament. There is no vote named HUNG. It just happens to be the result under certain circumstances and these two fellows helped to make it work and work very productively.

nasking

21/07/2013 I saw part of that First Footprints show, it was a goose-bumpy experience to see the Aboriginal elder glowing with the new knowledge the anthropologist was imparting to her of the ancient artwork and astounding land-sculpting of her people TT, SO WONDERFUL TO SEE ABORIGINAL ELDERS IMPARTING VALUED INFO AND ALSO THINGS THEY HAD SUSPECTED FOR YONKS BEING CONFIRMED...BUT I AGREE, THE NEW INFO BEING PROVIDED BY THE ANTHROPOLOGIST YOU COULD SEE REALLY MOVED THAT INDIGINEOUS WOMAN...THE TEARS OF AWE AND JOY WERE SOMETHING TO OBSERVE...GOOSEBUMPS AND A SHED TEAR WERE EXPERIENCED BY THIS FELLA TOO. IT BRINGS A FEELING OF SATISFACTION TO SEE THE FIRST PEOPLE'S CULTURE AND HISTORY BEING EXPLORED AND UNEARTHED IN SUCH A POSITIVE MANNER... SO UNLIKE THE BARRAGE OF NEGATIVE VIEWS AND IMAGES WE WOULD GET FROM THE LIKES OF TONY JONES ON LATELINE ETC DURING THE HOWARD YEARS. NOT TO MENTION SOME WHO LIKED TO REFER CONSTANTLY TO THE 'BLACK ARMBAND' VIEW OF HISTORY. TREATING A DISPOSSESSED PEOPLE WITH RESPECT CAN DO A LOT FOR MORALE...AND FUTURE ENDEAVOURS...UNITY...AND RECONCILIATION...AS OPPOSED TO AN HYPOCRITICAL PATERNALISTIC, GLASS HALF EMPTY APPROACH. N'

nasking

21/07/2013 Ad, I AGREE. WINDSOR AND OAKESHOTT CERTAINLY HELPED PROVIDE STABLE GOVERNMENT...AND ACHIEVED A GREAT DEAL BY WORKING COOPERATIVELY WITH THE ALP AND OTHERS...GUTSY FELLAS BOTH CONSIDERING THE CRAP THEY HAD TO COP. I RESPECT THEM IMMENSELY FOR THEIR EFFORTS. HISTORY WILL INDEED BE KINDER TO THEM THAN SOME IN THE NEGABORE MEDIA AND RIGHT-WING SIDE OF POLITICS WERE...AND THOSE DESPICABLE CITIZENS WHO HAD THE INDECENCY TO THREATEN THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES, ACTING LIKE THE WORST OF AMERICAN TEA PARTIERS. AN EFFECTIVE, DESERVEDLY RESPECTFUL POST. N'

Catching up

21/07/2013Personally, I would love to see more minority governments. Then I do not believe we will see the likes of Gillard and the independents that made it work.

N'ellie May

21/07/2013Great work, Ad. Let us hope that the achievements of the Gillard Govt, together with these independents, will remain. Rob was right when he talked about "ugly Australia." He had the vicious Ray Hadley to contend with, amongst other hate-mongers. Like Ms Gillard, our wishes for Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott should now be for them all to live full and peaceful lives, away from the confrontations and vitriol of these last years. They did a mighty job for the people of Australia and let's hope that there will be many more articles such as yours, Ad Astra, to celebrate their work. Thank you once again for recording these events so succinctly and helping us to reflect on the past three years with you.

Frank

21/07/2013A well-written piece on two truly well-deserving human beings. Their level-headedness is just what we needed when the voices of anger and revenge threatened to prevail. Oakeshott defended the NBN and the integrity of the budget and dared the Coalition to bring on a vote of no-confidence if they really believed this was the worst government in history.Windsor exposed Tony Abbott as the consummate fortune-seeker. My only regret is that he could not stay to prevent Barnaby Joyce's bid for the lower house.

TalkTurkey

21/07/2013Ad astra I am knocked out by the first few paras of this thread, I do so admire your attitude - your civilization - in all things. I have only read that much, I'm saving it up as one does save up what one knows is going to be delightful. I'll have it for afternoon tea. :) Ad I know I am going to share your every opinion on Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor, and that is an intensely pleasurable anticip- ation! But I did think that people who've never seen it before might like to look at my big contemporary poem [b][i]The Maid Of Yarralumla[/i][/b] It's as good political rhyme as I've ever managed, and I reckon it will bring back vivid memories of those turbulent times. I am still proud of having written it, especially since I reckon my comments on some of the personalities were pretty prescient, [i]particularly[/i] those re Oakeshott, Windsor, and *J*U*L*I*A* herself. But see, I would never have written it [i]had I not[/i], only 4 weeks before, discovered and started writing on The Political Sword!(Just one week after the final IndependAnts' resolution as detailed in your article Ad.) Because, as is so for all of us, if there were nowhere to post contributions, and therefore no-one to write for, there'd be no incentive to write. So that history in verse is really down to you & this blogsite Ad, Thank You, and I hope Comrades that you may enjoy the lyrical trip down Memory Lane. [b]EASY INSTRUCTIONS TO FIND [i]*THE MAID*[/i][/b] Go back in TPS's [b]MAGNIFICENT Archive[/b], (top of TPS page), Scroll down to [b]2010/10/10 [/b][i][Grog Do come back we need you][/i] Scroll down through contributions to [b]10.42 AM [/b] [b][i]Too easy![/i][/b]

Algernon

21/07/2013What a well written piece. These are sentiments I can only agree with. I think if both continued they would have held their seats comfortably. Windsor primary vote was more than 10% in front of Barking Barney. The good folk of Lyne are heartily sick of the North Coast Nationals in NSW and Oakshott was a good fit for them. That both have left to spend more time with the family is commendable

Mal

21/07/2013Well Ad Astra you have done it again. Nothing I can say or write could come close to your words. If only the voters of Australia could see what honourable men they are maybe their faith in some politicians woul be restored.Now we have the ugly sceen of Abbott and Morrison trying to shout from the rooftops with 3 word slogans. It would never have come to this ugly suation occurring if Julia Gillaard's Maayasian solution had passed the senate. The Greens bear responsibilaty for this mess with their air headed ideas .

Ad astra reply

21/07/201342 long, nasking, Catching up, N'ellie May, Frank, Talk Turkey, Algernon, Mal 1 Thanks to all of you for your kind words and your endorsement of this accolade for two fine parliamentarians. If only their colleagues could emulate their attititude and behaviour.

nasking

21/07/2013 ONE OF A KIND: The Last Fearless Reporter There Will Never Be Another Helen Thomas by RALPH NADER There will never be another Helen Thomas. She shattered forever one anti-woman journalistic barrier after another in the Washington press corps and rose to the top of her profession’s organizations. Helen Thomas asked the toughest questions of Presidents and White House press secretaries and over her sixty-two year career took on sexism, racism and ageism. She endured prejudice against her ethnicity — Arab-American — and her breaking the taboo regarding the rights of dispossessed Palestinians. She also made many friends in journalism and spoke to audiences all over the country about the responsibility of journalists to hold politicians responsible with tough, probing, questions that are asked repeatedly until they are either answered or the politician is unmasked as an unaccountable coward. That is the example she set as a journalist and the recurrent theme in her three books. Her free spirit, her courageous belief that injustice must be exposed by journalists, her congenial personality and her relentless focus (she asked former President George W. Bush and his press secretary Ari Fleischer dozens of times “Why are we in Iraq?”) will be long remembered. Her tenacious, forthright approach to journalism stands as a stark contrast to the patsy journalism of too many of her former self-censoring White House press colleagues. The remarkable combination of skills and perseverance will distinguish Helen Thomas as one of the giants of American journalistic history. http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/19/there-will-never-be-another-helen-thomas/ HELEN INSPIRED ME...I WILL MISS HER GREATLY. [b]RESPECT[/b]. N'

nasking

21/07/2013 [b]My only regret is that he could not stay to prevent Barnaby Joyce's bid for the lower house.[/b] Frank, AGREE. BUT JOYCE AIN'T SAFE AT HOME PLATE YET. N'

Mal

21/07/2013Maybe Barnaby Joyce will have to eat humble pie instead of a $100 roast steak we hope.

2353

21/07/2013And who said that all politicians are in it for themselves. Take a bow gentlemen, your both deserve the plaudits this thread delivers. One would hope that there are more Windsor's and Oakeshott's somewhere in Australia that want to step up and have the nerve to do so. Well written AA.

nasking

21/07/2013 Labour has urged David Cameron to investigate claims that a contract that his electoral strategist, Lynton Crosby, signed to provide the cigarette firm Philip Morris International (PMI) with lobbying services could be worth as much as £6m. As the row over Crosby's role in a government U-turn on plain cigarette packaging continues, an informed source claimed that the PMI contract was signed personally by Crosby last November after another lobbying firm, Luther Pendragon, severed its ties with the company following criticism from leading health organisations. The source said a figure "of around £6m" was discussed, although the agreed amount and the duration of the contract are not known. In a letter to Cameron, Labour's shadow health secretary, Andy Burnham, states: "It has been alleged to me that last November, after his appointment as your electoral strategy adviser, Lynton Crosby personally signed a contract between Philip Morris International and Crosby Textor for lobbying work in the UK, including on standardised packaging of tobacco. It is claimed that the contract was in the region of £6m." Burnham also asks Cameron to clarify what discussions, if any, he had with Crosby on plain packs. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/20/cameron-lynton-crosby-contract-philip-morris MORALLY BANKRUPT TURDS. EXPECT BROWN-NOSING OF TOBACCO COMPANIES FROM ABBOTT IF HE WINS. PROBABLY SEND BISHOP TO DO GO-BETWEEN WORK. N'

jane

21/07/2013Ad astra, thank you this lovely tribute to two of the most honourable and honest politicians it has been my pleasure to see in action over the last 3 years. I can only admire their courage and steadfastness in the face of the filthy smear campaigns waged against them and their families since they decided to give the nod to Julia Gillard and kept faith with her and the minority government, when it would have been easy to resile from that position. I have emailed both men a few times over the last 3 years, thanking them for their honesty, integrity and principled behaviour in the face of the rabid smear campaigns conducted against them. Lesser mortals would have crumbled, but they stood fast. I don't know whether I would have had their courage. I was very sad, but not altogether surprised, when they announced their intention not to contest this election. They have both served in the public arena for a long time and their families deserve to have their undivided attention. They will both leave a considerable legacy to their electorates and the country. We should all be grateful to have witnessed how much can be achieved when people of good intent enter politics.

Mal

21/07/2013Would someone enlighten me on why we are still bound by the Geneva Convention argreed to in the nineteen fiftes on refugees is still releavent.The stuation now is nothing like the 1950s so should a new agreement be struck acording to the 2013 world suation.We could still be copassionate but maybe with different coditions.

MarkatPort

21/07/2013So well written Ad, it brought tears to my eyes. Rob is my local member. Both he and Windsor have served their electorates exceptionally well. I'm really upset to see them go but understand them wanting to get out now.

Ken

21/07/2013Ad Agree that no praise is too high for Oakeshot and Windsor. What they effectively did was maintain Australian democracy through what, otherwise, could have been a very unstable period. And they did so despite continued criticism from that lot on the other side, despite the rabid shock jocks, and smear campaigns. Despite it all, as you say, they played the key role in ensuring this was one of the most successful parliaments ever, in terms of legislation passed. It is little wonder they have chosen to return to their families. It takes men of amazing character to put up with all that they did for three years and if they now want to be free of that no-one can begrudge it. Australia owes them, and Julia, for resisting the hate and fear that powerful forces both inside and outside the parliament were fermenting. History will remember them (all three) well.

Bloss

21/07/2013AA Thank you for expressing how I feel in such a succinct, measured, and heartfelt tribute. Both Mr Windsor and Mr Oakshott were 'in it' to serve their electorates and their contributions to Julia Gillard's time in office were selfless, genuine attempts to make Australia a better place. Thanks again for saying it so well.

Gravel

21/07/2013Ad Astra With these two gentlemen, Julia Gillard and a good handful of her colleagues, we have to be grateful that they were all in the right place at the right time. Australia has benefited more than many people would care to admit. I am lucky that I was able to watch how good a parliament was (if you ignore the opposition and the internal politics of ALP) and I know that I won't see the likes of it again in my lifetime.

Austin 3:16

21/07/2013Hey Gravel, Of course the counter argument would be that without Ms Gillard and her poor performance in the 2010 election campaign we wouldn't have needed the independants in the first place. That being said, we did need them, and should be thankful they made the right decision.

Ad astra

21/07/20132353, jane, MarkatPort, Ken, Bloss, Gravel Thank you all for your comments. I'm glad you enjoyed the piece and feel similarly to how I do.

jaycee

21/07/2013No kidding, Austin...I bet your teachers used to give you lemons to suck whenever you got some sort of contented look on your face!!

jane

21/07/2013NAS' I HOPE JOYCE'S TILT AT A LOWER HOUSE SEAT IS SEVERELY DERAILED, BUT I'M AFRAID THAT HE'LL BE SUCCESSFUL. HOPEFULLY, WINDSOR'S SUCCESSOR IS A CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK AND VOTERS WILL REWARD HIM/HER AND GIVE THE FINGER TO BARNYARD. TEXTOR & CROSBY ARE A PAIR OF GRUBS WELL INDOCTRINATED IN LIARS BELIEFS. Mal,in light of today's situation wrt asylum seekers, it could pay to review the Geneva Convention.

ian

21/07/2013The next perfect storm of the Gillard, Windsor and Oakeshott type will come about when the electorate is educated enough to understand the difference between solid governance and popular politics. So, I'm not holding my breathe. We really have lost something special.

jane

21/07/2013Austin the counter counter argument could be that if The Termite and his workers hadn't been actively undermining and whiteanting the Gillard government from June 2010, she would have won the election quite comfortably and not had to rely on the Independents to form government. However, it would have deprived the country of the enormous contribution these two very decent men made. We would have been the poorer without them.

Bilko

21/07/2013 AA Wonderful post, the House Of Reps with their and Julia's departure I hope as Ken@6.37,stated "History will remember them (all three) well. Their presence will be sorely missed. Now lets get to it and trash the lieberals whomever they have leading them.

lyn

22/07/2013Today’s Links Jakarta-centred foreign policy by @awelder The idea that the Liberals will recklessly increase tensions with Indonesia in order to pursue domestic political advantage comes from two sources: the culture of the Liberal Party itself and the psychology of Abbott http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/ A Wicked Problem. A Wicked Solution? by @Vic_Rollison with the underlying dread that Rudd is just doing this to win votes. But then, isn’t beating Abbott, and stopping him turning back boats, a justifiable motive for doing whatever it takes to win the election? And is the PNG solution really as evil as many people are making out? http://victoriarollison.com/2013/07/20/a-wicked-problem-a-wicked-solution/ Boat arrivals to be resettled in PNG by Election Watch I a coherent vision for handling irregular boat arrivals and Australia’s relationship with PNG to the immediate electoral interests of the Rudd government. Whether it succeeds or not, it has established further precedents for Australian policy in both these domains http://2013electionwatch.com.au/analysis/boat-arrivals-be-resettled-png Why Australia needs to admit to a frontier war and sign a makarrata by @derekbarry The left is outraged that Rudd has further eroded those rights for people coming here from other countries. But it has not made the link with black Australia. Rudd’s immigration solution is the obvious flipside of 220 years of oppression to Aborigines. We will never feel safe about our borders until we properly acknowledge the damage done within our realm. http://woollydays.wordpress.com/ Brennan’s alternative to Rudd’s realpolitik on asylum seekers by @LarvatusProdeo To me the removal of asylum seekers to PNG and then settled there if found genuine is clearly intended to act as a deterrent. In other words vulnerable people seeking our assistance are being used instrumentally to send a message and to change the behaviour of others. Ethically that is to be condemned, utterly. http://larvatusprodeo.net/archives/2013/07/brennans-alternative-to-rudds-realpolitik-on-asylum-seekers/ Is there a solution to the refugee problem? by @JohnQuiggin2 The treatment of asylum seekers has shown Australia at our worst, driven by fear and bigotry. But with a serious effort to drive a global response to the problems of refugees, we could go a long way to redeem ourselves http://johnquiggin.com/2013/07/21/is-there-a-solution-to-the-refugee-problem/ People Smuggling- Rudd Government's new No Visa No Settlement policy versus Coalition's Turn Bac by @no_filter_Yamba Each Australian voter will have to make up their own minds which irregular arrival asylum seeker policy to vote for - Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's turning back the boats on the high seas or Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's immediate transfer to and resettlement in Papua New Guinea. http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/people-smuggling-rudd-governments-new.html Turning point: Asylum, Rudd’s realpolitik & the Left by @Dr_Tad What we can say is that the last three years of the Left in government, with the Greens closely aligned with Gillard for most of that time, has ended with Rudd able to decisively impose a policy that successfully outflanks Abbott to the Right and simultaneously recasts the entire debate in a way the Left is ill-prepared for http://left-flank.org/2013/07/20/asylum-realpolitik-and-the-left/ Going behind the hysteria to examine the PNG deal by @crazyjane13 there’s no doubt that this arrangement with Papua New Guinea cuts the legs out from under the Coalition’s stated intentions towards asylum seekers. It is likely to provide some deterrent for those who might otherwise fall prey to people smugglers’ assurances of resettlement and citizenship. http://consciencevote.com.au/2013/07/20/going-behind-the-hysteria-to-examine-the-png-deal/ That Was Then; This Is Now! by rossleighbrisbane Mr Abbott said. ”I will never subcontract out to other countries the solution of problems in this country.” The Opposition Leader said Mr Rudd’s PNG plan should be considered a failure unless every new asylum seeker arrival was sent to Manus Island and the rate of boat arrivals stopped ”from today”.’ http://theaimn.com/2013/07/21/that-was-then-this-is-now/ Rudd’s PNG deal is a co-dependency, not a ‘regional solution’ by @ConversationEDU From the theatrics that came with the announcement, as well as the media onslaught via YouTube and social media, this announcement is deemed by the government (and grudgingly by the opposition to some degree) to be the “silver bullet” to end the flow of the boats. http://theconversation.com/rudds-png-deal-is-a-co-dependency-not-a-regional-solution-16251 Another Dangerous Refugee Post by @archiearchive COULD IT BE THAT Kevin Rudd and Tony Burke have found a way, not to “turn the boats back” but to Stop The Boats before they sail? News Ltd seems to think so - “Rudd’s decision will stop the boats, Afghan asylum seekers declare“ http://archiearchive.wordpress.com/2013/07/20/another-dangerous-refugee-post/ So Tony, where do you go from here? by Truth Seeker The greens are already outraged, which was always going to be the case, but IMHO they failed the test of being a responsible and conciliatory mainstream party, when they voted with Abbott to deny the Malaysian Solution http://truthseekersmusings.wordpress.com/ bullshit.com.au – otherwise known as news.com.au by @MigloMT What has been confirmed is that bullshit.com.au, I mean news.com.au intend to take over with Kevin Rudd where they left off with Julia Gillard. That is, a Labor Prime Minister is an evil person who is responsible for everything that’s wrong in this world. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2013/07/20/bullshit-com-au-otherwise-known-as-news-com-au/ I laughed ’til I cried by @MigloMT Sometimes when Joe Hockey opens his mouth the most stupidest things spill out. Such was the case when he complained yesterday that the Opposition was drowned out by celebrity’ Kev. For your amusement here is complaint filled article in full: http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/i-laughed-til-i-cried/ So they say by Gary Sauer-Thompson It is true that Turnbull as a Liberal leader would be more likely to win an election, but it is also true that in doing so he would take the country far further to the right. http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2013/07/so-they-say.php The naked truth? Journalism today by @ALeighMP We can never return to the old way of doing things, and need to learn to manoeuvre our way in this new environment. The Fourth Estate is going through perhaps the biggest transformation in the past century. For highly engaged citizens, there’s never been a better time to be a news consumer. http://nofibs.com.au/2013/07/20/the-naked-truth-journalism-today-by-aleighmp/ Carbon pricing in Australia by @JohnQuiggin Australia never had a carbon tax, as the term is usually understood. Rather, we had an emissions permit scheme, with a period of fixed prices (initially until 2016) after which emissions would be tradable http://crookedtimber.org/2013/07/20/carbon-pricing-in-australia/ What's the difference between a carbon tax and an emissions trading scheme by @1petermartin Until now the government has sold permits to whoever needed them for a fixed price (which them a tax). From next July it will issue a limited number of permits each year, and fewer in each successive year than the year before. Some will be auctioned, some will be given away, but the important thing is that they will be tradeable. http://www.petermartin.com.au/2013/07/whats-difference-between-carbon-tax-and.html Return to surplus less urgent as economy slows by @1RossGittins If Hockey has any sense, he'll back off from the nonsense about debt and deficits, just in case he has the good fortune to inherit Bowen's problem. http://www.rossgittins.com/2013/07/return-to-surplus-less-urgent-as.html PolitiFact checks 'Rudd's Record' TV attack ad by @PolitiFactOz Claim: Rudd wasted up to $8 billion on school hall rip offs. Truth-O-Meter Says: Mostly False. to claim that school halls are a waste is to argue they have no value for students and teachers. And that’s just silly, and misleading http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/ Department of Finance stalls Ashbygate Trust FOI request by @independentaus We are still considering whether to lodge a formal complaint with the Ombudsman, however I doubt very much whether this would expedite our request. There is a strong possibility that all it would achieve would be to bog us down and consume further resources. One kind of gets the feeling that is not a purely coincidental outcome. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/department-of-finance-stalls-ashbygate-trust-foi-request/ For Whom the Liberal School Bell Tolls. By C@tmomma As appears to be becoming the norm for Conservative political parties the world over, and in Australia, they have developed a blueprint for winning elections from Opposition which involves an amalgam of amorphous concepts, Fuzzy Math, Truthiness, Catch Phrases, Principled Words that look good http://pbxmastragics.com/2013/07/20/for-whom-the-liberal-school-bell-tolls/ Opposition drowned out by 'celebrity' Kev by Channel 7 "We've been making announcements every day for our plans for Australia's future, but they've been drowned out by the celebrity Kevin Rudd," he told the Ten Network Bolt Report program.Mr Hockey said Mr Rudd was all smoke and mirrors.He said Australia could end up paying social security and Medicare benefits to asylum seekers for the rest of their lives under the PNG solution. http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/18085986/opposition-drowned-out-by-celebrity-kev/ NBN: Kohler v Turnbull Debate - Unasked Questions by @SteveJ_CBR The problem is that so far there has been no indepth discourse on the 2 opposing versions, which are actually very different in how they deliver. Solid technical questions need to be both asked and then pursued to their end. Not bluffed away and left unanswered. http://stevej-on-nbn.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/nbn-kohler-v-turnbull-debate-unasked.html Today’s Front Pages Australian Newspaper Front Pages for 22 July 2013 http://www.thepaperboy.com/australia/front-pages.cfm News headlines http://www.hotheadlines.com.au/

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22/07/2013LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

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22/07/2013ian, Bilko Thank you for your comments. You are right ian, [i]”We really have lost something special”[/i], as jane put it: “[i]two very decent men”[/i].

nasking

22/07/2013 THE PRESSURE THE GOVERNMENT IS PUTTING ON CHILDCARE WORKERS TO UPGRADE THEIR QUALIFICATIONS IN SUCH A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME IS NOT ON. EXPERIENCE AND LENGTH OF SERVICE AND POSITIVE APPRAISALS SHOULD BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. PART OF THE REASON I DIDN'T RETURN TO THE EDUCATION SECTOR WAS BEING TOLD I WOULD HAVE TO DO EVEN MORE STUDY. RIDICULOUS. N'

nasking

22/07/2013 I NOTICED THE MURDOCH HERALD SUN USED A FRONT COVER RECENTLY THAT SHOWED DROWNED REFUGEE BABIES, CHILDREN...AS THO THEY GIVE A CRAP...THE MURDOCH EMPIRE HAS BEEN VILIFYING REFUGEES AND OTHER VULNERABLE GROUPS AND FEAR-MONGERING FOR YEARS...INCLUDING PROMOTING WARS THAT HAVE KILLED THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN...OPPORTUNISTIC SODS...THIS FROM THE UK IN 2003: [b]THE SUN newspaper is putting people's lives at risk. Billionaire Rupert Murdoch's rag ran a scare story about refugees 'bringing deadly diseases into Britain' on Friday of last week. It says the rise in HIV/AIDS and TB cases is down to refugees and immigrants. The Sun is trying to make cheap, racist propaganda out of serious diseases.[/b] This same paper peddled the dangerous myth that 'straight sex cannot give you AIDS' in November 1989. The Press Council forced it to run an apology on its editorial page. The Sun fed ignorance and prejudice that cost lives. [b]The Sun has a history of scapegoating every vulnerable group in society, from single parents to migrant workers who were invited to Britain in the 1950s to do jobs no one else wanted. Now the Sun is targeting refugees, including those from Iraq, while backing Bush and Blair's war on their country. No one should fall for its lies.[/b] http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art/3277/Doctors+slam+Suns+lies+about+refugees PATTERN OF BEHAVIOUR. N'

Sir Ian Crisp

22/07/2013I see the 'enlightened party' has a leader now channeling T Abbott. TPS is wont to tell us that it is Abbott who relies on slogans. Now Rudd has adopted the Abbott model. "I will stop the boats", "You won't get to Australia", "You won't be settled in Australia" are just a few of Rudd's slogans. What a dysfunctional party the ALP has become.

nasking

22/07/2013 LYN, ONCE AGAIN YOU HAVE PUT IN THE HARD YARDS AND OFFERED UP SOME HIGHLY USEFUL LINKS...CHEERS! THIS FROM VICTORIA ROLLISON: So back to Labor’s asylum seeker PNG policy. Again, I haven’t totally decided how I feel about it, and I am not ready to jump to campaign against it, or to support it in full. [b]But I do know that this is one policy area where many people seem to want it both ways. For instance, when the media reports the devastating news that asylum seekers have drowned on their journey to Australia, the government is blamed for these deaths. Because they didn’t ‘stop the boats’. But then when the government attempts to find a way to convince asylum seekers to stay where they are, to wait for resettlement, to not get on a boat, the very same people who are complaining about the dangers of coming by boat, are complaining about the policy alternative being cruel and inhumane. [/b] Let’s get something straight. Kevin Rudd can’t stop people who come by boat from drowning. If people choose to come by boat, a certain percentage of them will drown. This is tragic and unfair. But it is fact. This is why I am not afraid to say that I support stopping the boats. [b]I don’t want to stop asylum seekers. I just want them not to get on a boat.[/b] In fact, if Rudd’s policy of sending asylum seekers to PNG does stop people coming to Australia by boat, won’t this policy also stop drownings? And how about the people who have been stuck in Indonesian refugee camps indefinitely because they can’t afford to pay a people smuggler to bring them to Australia? Aren’t these people disadvantaged by their extreme poverty? If Australia agrees to provide a certain number of Humanitarian Visas each year, and the quota is filled by those asylum seekers who have survived the boat trip to Australia, what happens to the people who can’t afford to come by boat? I don’t think we talk about these forgotten people enough. One part of Rudd’s PNG policy announcement which seems to have flown under the radar, in preference for outrage and condemnation from some politicians, their supporters and those speaking on their behalf in the media, is the promise to “consider progressively increasing our humanitarian intake towards 27,000 as recommended by the Houston panel.” I congratulate Rudd on this, and I hope that it is not just considered, but also implemented. As I said, I fully support Australia accepting more refugees. Full stop. [b]I guess where I’m feeling most confused is trying to reconcile my feelings about the policy, with the underlying dread that Rudd is just doing this to win votes. But then, isn’t beating Abbott, and stopping him turning back boats, a justifiable motive for doing whatever it takes to win the election? And is the PNG solution really as evil as many people are making out? I haven’t decided, but I appreciate the opportunity to think aloud, to analyse the situation before a knee-jerk reaction becomes my opinion. This is quite a foreign feeling for someone as opinionated as I am, but I’m learning to live with it.[/b] INDEED. N'

nasking

22/07/2013 LYN, I FOUND THE awelder PIECE THOUGHT PROVOKING: In the 1960s Australia was beginning to develop relationships with Asian countries, relationships that appreciated the subtleties between what was said for political consumption versus what was in the longterm interests of those countries. From those relationships came the idea that the White Australia Policy of restricting immigration from non-Caucasian people had to go; Australia's political elite had to overcome its populist instincts to make that happen. It took them years and many argue the job isn't done yet. Those who wanted to hold out against being "swamped by Asia" pointed to two factors that helped slow our embrace of our neighbouring countries: "Red" China and violent, unpredictable Indonesia. The changes to China since the Cultural Revolution and the pragmatic policies of Deng Xiaoping and his successors have been well covered elsewhere. In the 1960s Indonesia was seemingly in meltdown: it was gripped by ethnic and political turmoil, brought to a head in 1964-65 with the replacement of Sukarno by Suharto and chronicled from an Australian perspective (in fictional terms) by Christopher Koch in The Year of Living Dangerously. Indonesia outplaced its internal tensions with occasional armed skirmishes against Malaysian provinces in northern Kalimantan during the 1960s. This conflict is now known by the Bahasa word that both Indonesians and Malaysians applied to it: Konfrontasi. [b]Rudd's use of that word to describe Abbott's approach was deliberate, the Liberal outrage in response was pathetic. They never used to behave like that when Gillard or Swan went after them. Their avoidance of policy development leaves them with few options when attacked on policy. [/b] [b]As far as the Indonesians are concerned, the Liberals have oscillated between three responses to announcements from the Indonesian government: wariness, ignoring them, and overfamiliarity and false chumminess (e.g. Julie Bishop's reference to the Indonesian Foreign Minister as "Marty". Dr Natalegawa has a PhD from ANU, and when you understand what it took to make that possible, and how dismissive the latter-day inheritors of the Coalition are of that legacy, you'll understand how hollow Coalition rhetoric on "a new Colombo Plan" is). None of these, nor all three, are adequate for building Australian foreign policy.[/b] If Australia can't build a productive relationship with Indonesia it won't build a productive relationship with any other country in our region either. [b]At the time Konfrontasi was known in Australia, the UK and in other countries that sent troops to maintain the peace as the Malayan Emergency. The Liberal Party contains many people whose perspective on Indonesia was shaped by the Malayan Emergency and The Year of Living Dangerously. It contains few with any actual (let alone deep and extensive) experience with contemporary Indonesia. When the Howard government sent troops into East Timor the conflict was wildly popular within the Liberal Party. It vindication of both their suspicion of Indonesian malevolence toward Australia, as well as interpreting as weakness the fact that the Indonesian armed forces did not fully engage as they might have to an invasion elsewhere in their country. By disdaining the Indonesians Abbott is playing to his base, as though that's more important than engaging with the future.[/b] [b]This is how Abbott works - by ramping up tensions to the point where the dreaded subtleties are lost, and where difference of opinion becomes treason. The sort of nuanced policy on regional co-operation being pursued by the incumbents is not the result of deft diplomacy genius by Prime Minister Rudd, but rather a recognition that he has no other choice.[/b] [b]Nuance is not only anathema to Abbott, but way too hard; he strained to achieve it as a Howard government minister and it deserted him throughout 2007. By 2009 he rejected it entirely. In 2013 he needs to cultivate the appearance that he can handle complexities, like Howard did over 1995-96 and Rudd did in 2007; instead, he's retreating to the base by being ever more dogmatic.[/b] [b]Ramping up tensions is easy[/b] and, if vindicated by the electorate, to be preferred over an outcome requiring give-and-take. It shows Abbott's economic illiteracy that he would put the issues described above at risk; how the visceral issue of 'border protection' trumps almost all of the export-oriented economy. ABBOTT JUST DOESN'T HAVE WHAT IT TAKES. NOR JULIE BISHOP. N'

nasking

22/07/2013 [b]HOPEFULLY, WINDSOR'S SUCCESSOR IS A CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK AND VOTERS WILL REWARD HIM/HER AND GIVE THE FINGER TO BARNYARD. [/b] JANE, BARNABY JOYCE IS JUST ANOTHER PUPPET OF THE MEGA-RICH...HE'S IN THE POCKET OF GINA FOR STARTERS...HE PLAYS GAMES TO LOOK OTHERWISE... BUT LET'S FACE IT, IF HE REALLY GAVE A STUFF ABOUT THE PEOPLE HE WOULDN'T BE PRETENDING TO BE A QLDer ONEDAY...AND NEW SOUTH WELSHMAN THE NEXT. HE REMINDS ME OF RUPERT MURDOCH...ONE MOMENT HE'S AN AMERICAN...THE NEXT AN AUSSIE...THE NEXT A POM...WHATEVER SUITS HIS AMBITIONS AT THE TIME. AND HE'S ANOTHER ONE OF THESE CATHOLICS LIKE ABBOTT...ALL OVER THE PLACE ON ISSUES TRYING TO WIN OVER VARIOUS GROUPS. THAT SALE OF TELSTRA VOTE WAS A DEBACLE. I WOULDN'T TRUST JOYCE AS FAR AS I COULD THROW HIM. I'VE SEEN WAY TOO MANY OF THESE TRICKY SCHEMING SUPPOSED 'COUNTRY BOY' TYPES WITH AN ELITE EDUCATION AND IN THE POCKET OF BIG RESOURCE BARONS DUPE AND SCREW OVER THE VERY PUBLIC THEY PURPORT TO SUPPORT IN NTH AMERICA. THEY CAN'T BE TRUSTED. ABBOTT HAS THIS FELLA BY HIS SIDE FOR A GOOD REASON. AND WE KNOW WHO ARE PULLING ABBOTT AND TEAM'S STRINGS. GIVE ME A TRUSTED LOCAL CANDIDATE ANY DAY OVER A CORPORATE PUPPET PRETENDING TO BE A SOCIALIST AGRARIAN COW COCKY...WHO ACTS LIKE THE WORST OF CELEBRITIES...ADDICTED TO THE LIMELIGHT. N'

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22/07/2013Hi Lyn Thank you another great set of links, with much emphasis of the asylum-seeker issue, and also on carbon pricing and the economy. Victoria Rollison writes a nicely balanced article on the asylum issue, and Truth Seeker's piece neatly highlights Tony Abbott's dilemma now that the PNG arrangement is in place. The article by Peter Martin clarifies the carbon tax issue with great analogies, and a usual Ross Gittins makes good sense, free of political spin. Miglo has a nice piece on news.com and its carelessness with the truth, and PolitiFact now has quite a collection of ‘facts’, twenty in all, with seven recording on the ‘false’ end of the scale, which demonstrates its value. I hope the politicians read it and change their behaviour accordingly.

nasking

22/07/2013 THIS LOT ADVISE THE ABBOTT LED LIBERAL PARTY TOO: [b]David Cameron stepped up plans to sell off NHS after hiring aide with links to healthcare firms 21 Jul 2013 Lobbyist Lynton Crosby’s PR firm advised businesses looking to cash in on Tory reforms, leaked files show [/b] The [b]UK arm of Mr Crosby’s PR empire, Crosby Textor Fullbrook, advised the group of businesses, called H5, on healthcare after the PM took power in 2010.[/b] [b]Mr Crosby’s firm provided polling that could help the group – now the Association of Independent Healthcare Organisations – overcome public opposition to them taking work away from the NHS.[/b] [b]The PM then hired him in November last year. And in February the Government sparked fury by bringing forward regulations to make health chiefs invite private companies to bid for work.[/b] Labour’s Mr Burnham said: “The more we learn of Lynton Crosby’s business dealings, the greater the number of question marks left hanging over the integrity of David Cameron’s Government. It cannot be right to have people paid to lobby for private health ­organisations wandering round Downing Street when policies are being discussed that could benefit their clients.” http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-stepped-up-plans-2073843 EXPECT SAME FROM ABBOTT'S LOT IF THEY GET IN. ALREADY SEEING THESE MOVES TO PARTIALLY DISMANTLE THE PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEM IN QLD AND OTHER STATES. N'

Truth Seeker

22/07/2013Ad, thanks for another fine tribute, to two very honourable and thoroughly decent men and politicians, which is a rare combination to find in one, much less two politicians in the same parliament. Men who made sure that Abbott's lie of [b]"Minority government being a "Failed" experiment"[/b] was well and truly exposed. Great work Ad, :-) Cheers :-) :-)

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22/07/2013Truth Seeker Thank you for the compliment, and for your tribute to Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott: “[i]…two very honourable and thoroughly decent men and politicians, which is a rare combination to find in one, much less two politicians in the same parliament.”[/i]

nasking

22/07/2013 CAPTAIN CATHOLIC ABBOTT WHO ONCE STATED 'CLIMATE CHANGE IS CRAP' HAS BEEN QUOTING ADAM SMITH...HE MIGHT WANT TO THINK ABOUT THIS: [b]Science is the great antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition. Adam Smith[/b]

lyn

22/07/2013Hi Ad, Thankyou for spoiling us again. Wonderful article about Tony Windsor & Rob Oakshott, they really are “men among men” bravery, chivalry, a superior pair outstanding members of Parliament. As you say Ad Astra “ [i]They were the epitome of commonsense, rational advocacy, balanced judgement and gentlemanly behaviour, always free of the nastiness and spitefulness so often associated with partisan politics” [/i] Thankyou for your post to me @ 10:19 AM I always love to read what you think about Today’s Links & everything else in Politics. Oh! yes PolitiFact but sadly I don’t think Abbott /Credlin and Co have read the article. Abbott back on TV continuing with his hate speeches. Today to the Israel Chamber of Commerce . [quote]Tony Abbott keeps up attack on Kevin Rudd over asylum seeker plan[/quote] "It's not legally binding and it doesn't say what Mr Rudd says it says," Mr Abbott told reporters in Melbourne on Monday http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-keeps-up-attack-on-kevin-rudd-over-asylum-seeker-plan-20130722-2qdkz.html#ixzz2ZkGGhUfn [i]Libs contemplate defeat by Christian Kerr[/i] ANGER towards Tony Abbott's senior staff and closest colleagues is mounting in Liberal ranks as rattled MPs concede the risk of an election loss. The complaints come as senior figures Malcolm Turnbull and Joe Hockey contradicted each other on asylum-seeker policy yesterday, confusing the Coalition's campaign pitch. Mr Turnbull, the party's communications spokesman and former leader, told SBS that Mr Rudd's Papua New Guinea Solution would be "very likely" to stop the boats, if managed well. At a press conference in Melbourne, Mr Abbott denounced the asylum-seeker plan as "essentially misleading". http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/libs-contemplate-defeat/story-fn59niix-1226682805681 A couple of Tweets: Paul Bongiorno ‏ Fact it is the Coaltion's political interest to keep the boats coming. @berkeleyboy Heavily promoted #NewsCorp Anti-Rudd protests fail to draw a crowd - only 40 people. Tony Abbott's boss, Rupert won't be pleased Thankyou Nasking for your appreciation, you always recognise a good article right away.

jane

22/07/2013NAS' @10.16AM, I AGREE WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT OF BARNYARD. HE TRIES TO COME OVER AS ALL HAIL FELLOW, WELL MET JOLLINESS, BUT IS JUST A COMMON OR GARDEN ELITE SCHOOL BULLY BOY LIKE LIEALOT, TURNBULL, HOCKEY & THE REST OF THE lIARS. THEY'VE NEVER HAD THE INTERESTS OF ORDINARY PEOPLE OR SMALL BUSINESS PEOPLE AT HEART. UNFORTUNATELY, A LOT OF SMALL BUSINESS PEOPLE HAVE SWALLOWED THEIR RUBBISH WHOLE OUT OF NAIVETY OR SNOBBISHNESS OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH, OVER THE YEARS.

nasking

22/07/2013 I WONDER HOW MANY WOMEN ARE HAVING BABIES IN REFUGEE CAMPS AND DETENTION CENTRES RIGHT NOW? WOMEN FLEEING THE ENEMIES OF ISRAEL. HAVING BABIES BEHIND BARRIERS. LIKE THOSE WHO DID IN THE NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMPS. SAD DAYS INDEED. WORLD OF SHORT MEMORIES.

nasking

22/07/2013 BUT OF COURSE WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT IS A ROYAL BIRTH. THE WORLD'S GAZE FALLS UPON THIS BIRTH LIKE ONE BIG MOMENT OF DISTRACTION. IT'S NOT THE BABY THEY CARE ABOUT...THEY WILL NEVER KNOW THAT CHILD. ONLY THE IDOL THEY CREATE. AND OF ALL THOSE OTHER BABIES COMING IN COLD OR FREAKISHLY HOT PLACES...BORN INTO FEAR AND POVERTY...PERHAPS ONE OR MORE OF THEM WILL CHANGE THE WORLD. BUT FOR NOW THEY ARE NOT OF INTEREST TO OUR CORPORATE MEDIA...THEY DON'T ATTRACT AN AUDIENCE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT OF ROYAL PRIVILEGED BLOOD.

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22/07/2013Hi Lyn Thank you for your kind words and the additional links. There seems to be some uncertainty and anxiety creeping into Coalition ranks, perhaps panic in some of the nervous nellies, just like occurs in ardent football team supporters seeing their team’s ten goal lead at three-quarter time evaporate into a few points five minutes before full time. Slogan-Abbott is now inventing new slogans about Rudd’s PNG arrangement: “[i]This particular deal is unravelling before our very eyes". "It's not legally binding” “It doesn't say what Mr Rudd says it says”,[/i] and [i]"Mr Rudd is being misleading to the point of dishonesty."[/i] While Malcolm Turnbull says Rudd’s plan might work, and Abbott-supporter Greg Sheridan says so too, Slogan Abbott is busy signaling that the deal is no good, insisting Rudd can’t make it work. Abbott now seems to be shielded from Coalition members by his staff, probably scared that if too many people get into his ear, he will go off message. The only reason he has survived so far is through discipline imposed by his minders, which was OK when it seemed certain he would deliver them a thumping victory, but as confidence ebbs away, his position gets progressively more tenuous. With Malcolm Turnbull always in the background dropping comments that contradict or even mildly challenge Abbott, just as Rudd did to Julia Gillard for years, Abbott’s hold on leadership slips and slips. Nervousness and tension lead to errors, contradictions, and distorted and confusing messages. To maintain his once certain grip on power, Abbott will need to watch his step, and his mouth, every time he appears in public. Can he do it?

Michael

22/07/2013Great job on the Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott story, AA! I reckon that however many books are written about the hung parliament of 2010 to 2013, few will say it as well as you have that these two gentlemen were the twin fulcrums of some of the most pride-engendering legislation ever passed in the House of Representatives. Well done. Equally well done is the Andrew Elder article listed amongst Lyn's Links above, which lays out quite a different conclusion about Abbott and his buttfluff chanticleers. I responded thus: Andrew, do you ever get tired of so effectively nailing the topics you turn your eye and 'pen' to? Excellent article again, but every commentator who recognises that Australians seem to wish to live in a great big Antipodean blind-spot is 'seeing' the real issue. But then, "every" is a very skinny group when you start counting... Bwana Morrison virtually declared war on Indonesia about 'who chooses which boats will be turned back and to where' a week or so back. And has continued in the same vein ever since. A mouthpiece with an urgent desire to be so much more, Morrison must be stretched agonisingly between 'times suit me' gratitude to have a leader like Abbott out front, while simultaneously (and demonstrably, watch him over Abbott's shoulder at doorstops) certain he's the 'real guy in waiting'. Visit http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/ for Andrew's original article.

nasking

22/07/2013 [b] I AGREE WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT OF BARNYARD. HE TRIES TO COME OVER AS ALL HAIL FELLOW, WELL MET JOLLINESS, BUT IS JUST A COMMON OR GARDEN ELITE SCHOOL BULLY BOY LIKE LIEALOT, TURNBULL, HOCKEY & THE REST OF THE lIARS.[/b] JANE, INDEED...A PHONEY. A GINA BROWN-NOSER. LIKE ABBOTT. YA KNOW BARNABY JOYLESS WANTS TO MINE ANTARCTICA...YOU CAN ALMOST SEE THE BIG MINERS' STRINGS. N'

nasking

22/07/2013 [b]There seems to be some uncertainty and anxiety creeping into Coalition ranks, perhaps panic in some of the nervous nellies, just like occurs in ardent football team supporters seeing their team’s ten goal lead at three-quarter time evaporate into a few points five minutes before full time. [/b] Ad, REMINDS ME OF THE ROMNEY CAMP A FEW WEEKS OUT FROM THE ELECTION. YOU COULD SEE THE UNCERTAINTY AND SOMETIMES PANIC IN THEIR EYES...GESTURES...TONE OF VOICES. ABBOTT THE DEMOLISHER IS ABOUT TO DEMOLISH HIS OWN PARTY. THEY DESERVE EVERYTHING THEY GET. I BET MINCHIN IS REAL POPULAR RIGHT NOW. N'

TalkTurkey

22/07/2013Nasking said "WOMEN FLEEING THE ENEMIES OF ISRAEL. HAVING BABIES BEHIND BARRIERS." WHAT ? [b][i]WHERE?[/i][/b] Oh you mean women fleeing the Israeli murderers and weaponry, usurpers and persecution, yes, I see. Because if you're giving us a line that Israelis are the victims you're blinder than ever cataracts could make you. Israel is THE fomenter of world strife, mass thievery, and user of illegal weaponry including white phosphorus against civilians. I find any defence of Israel's fascistic regime insulting to human intelligence and indefensible. If you find my raw truth offensive, be sure I find your untruth more so. I will NOT let your bigoted attitude to Israeli outrages go unchallenged. Tell me, where are these "women fleeing the enemies of Israel" to be found? If you are Jewish yourself, or those close to you, you should declare that.

nasking

22/07/2013 [b]Thankyou Nasking for your appreciation, you always recognise a good article right away.[/b] YER WELCOME LYN. YOU OFFER UP SO MANY GOODIES TO CHOOSE FROM. :D FROM CHRISTIAN KERR: [b]ANGER towards Tony Abbott's senior staff and closest colleagues is mounting in Liberal ranks as rattled MPs concede the risk of an election loss. The complaints come as senior figures Malcolm Turnbull and Joe Hockey contradicted each other on asylum-seeker policy yesterday, confusing the Coalition's campaign pitch. Mr Turnbull, the party's communications spokesman and former leader, told SBS that Mr Rudd's Papua New Guinea Solution would be "very likely" to stop the boats, if managed well.[/b] OUCH! THE COALITION DISINTEGRATING BEFORE OUR EYES LYN. IMAGINE HOW MANY IN THE LIBERAL AND NATIONAL PARTY ACTUALLY LOATHE THE NEGABORE ABBOTT? HE ONLY WON THE LEADERSHIP BY ONE VOTE. AND WASN'T THAT SLIPPER'S VOTE? IRONIC INNIT? :D N'

nasking

22/07/2013 TALK TURKEY, IRAN IS NOT EXACTLY A FRIEND OF ISRAEL HOW MANY ARAB AND PERSIAN LEADERS ACCEPT THAT ISRAEL HAS THE RIGHT TO EXIST? RECOGNISE IT AS A BONA-FIDE STATE? IS IT ISRAEL FIGHTING, KILLING IN SYRIA? IRAQ? PERSECUTING WOMEN AND THE LGBT COMMUNITY IN IRAN? I THINK NOT. N'

Austin 3:16

22/07/2013Hey Jane, Yeah 'cause it was such a stellar campaign in 2010 wasn't it?

Austin 3:16

22/07/2013Isn't discretion normally one of the hallmarks of a gentleman ?

KHTAGH

22/07/2013Ad Astra I agree with you we will never see the likes of them again, truly the 2 most outstanding members in the hung parliament, I don't think I can recall once feeling that either of them were being anything other than genuine honorable men. To contrast that, Mr Abbott's behavior has been any thing BUT! honorable. They have both(the Independents)earner their treasured place in our political history.

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22/07/2013Michael Thank you for your complimentary remarks. You are so accurate in your assessment of Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott: "[i]...two gentlemen [who] were the twin fulcrums of some of the most pride-engendering legislation ever passed in the House of Representatives."[/i]

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22/07/2013nasking Your comparison of the Abbott camp with the Romney camp before the US Presidential election, is apt.

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22/07/2013KHTAGH I agree strongly with your words: "[i]I don't think I can recall once feeling that either of them were being anything other than genuine honorable men."[/i] How many politicians have earned that accolade?

TalkTurkey

23/07/2013Nasking I asked a specific question : [i]Tell me, where are these "women fleeing the enemies of Israel" to be found?[/i] And I issued a specific challenge: [i]If you are Jewish yourself, or those close to you, you should declare that.[/i] You have obfuscated about both. Your replies are spurious and irrelevant. This is in my experience typical of Jewish/sympathizer response to direct questions and challenges, as it is also typical of LNP apologists and the Right generally. It is as dishonourable as it is disingenuous. Among Arab nations Israel is overwhelmingly held responsible for fomenting strife and dissension amongst them, and Israel's treatment of Palestinians constitutes the most egregious policy of oppression by any State in the world. Its behaviour in blockading convoys of aid intended for the captive State of Palestine is criminal even without counting the multiple murders the IMF inflicted on the crew of one of the ships. How do you justify such behaviour? How come you are begging sympathy for such few persecuted Jewish women as you might find "having babies behind barricades" (?!) while you ignore the continuous oppression of an entire people whose homeland it has dispossessed through force of arms? Heavily influential in Western Media, hugely involved with production of weaponry, Jews worldwide are powerful beyond measure and, through such clandestine agencies as Mossad, mischievous beyond belief. Arab nations hold Israeli influence as having been the catalyst for the war in Iraq, - to the actual prosecution of which it cunningly contributed not a single soldier! - and as having been critically complicit in the Syrian terror, the very situations you point to as somehow supporting your case in crying for Jews. That we hear little of such charges in the West - Well of course not, Jewish sympathiser Murdoch and the other Western Media moguls don't and won't tell us! Are you aware of all that? Do you admit it? [i]Are you Jewish?[/i] - Or, [i]why[/i] are you so supportive of Israel? If not the former, then please do not evade the latter. And I do feel justified in asking you directly, because just as I hold it incumbent on IPA employees to state that fact when they appear on the publicly-funded ABC, so I hold it incumbent on you to state your allegiances on this free site if you are intending through it to call for sympathy for this inhumane monster of a unfettered tyrannical world superpower. As you would know I am myself nontheistic, though with a strong inclination to Good-Samaritanism. I despise Religion and see it as the great engine of strife for the world. But if I had to choose between Judaism and Islam I would have to opt for the latter, because I have at least never seen disingenuity as part of their horrible creed. Can't say that for Jews or most forms of "Christian." Sorry I should've written all this in UPPER CASE but it's too late now. I look forward to your full and frank response.

lyn

23/07/2013Today’s links The Australian Asylum by @MrDenmore So in the tabloid Murdochcracy, it just becomes a question of choosing from a range of instant outrage buttons to push - from "OMFG, The Refugees Will Destroy Our Way of Life!" to "Lax Security is Letting Terrorists Through the Net!" to "Those Bludgers Are Living in Luxury on the Taxpayers' Tab!" to "Refugee Solution Will Blow Budget Surplus!" and, finally, "Won't Someone Think of the Children!" http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/the-australian-asylum.html?spref=tw Attentiveness and indifference by Klaus Neumann JUST over a year ago, in the hope that the government and the opposition would endorse a bipartisan response to the arrival of asylum seekers, independent MP Rob Oakeshott introduced the Migration Legislation Amendment (The Bali Process) Bill into federal parliament. The debate in both houses was emotionally charged, with tears shed for people http://inside.org.au/attentiveness-and-indifference/ Keep thinking people, it may catch on! by rossleighbrisbane Some complain that Rudd is no better than Howard. Others gloat that he’s removed an electoral positive from Tony. Yet others say that he’s admitted the Liberals were right. And finally, we have Abbott’s: It’s a good policy, but we think he’ll muck it up, because that’s all we’ve got now. http://theaimn.com/2013/07/22/keep-thinking-people-it-may-catch-on/ A Guarded Flank; why Rudd won’t be worried about losing the Left in PNG by @citation@AusVotes2013 The notion that the humanitarian voters will preference the party of Tony “Stop the Boats!” Abbott and Scott “Tow ‘em back to Indonesia!” Morrison ahead of the ALP is frankly hilarious http://ausvotes2013.com/2013/07/22/a-guarded-flank/ Right-Wing Myths- The Howard Government's record with regard to asylum seeker numbers by @no_filter_Yamba Time and time again Coalition Opposition MPs and Shadow Ministers talk about how the Howard Government stopped the boats and how they will do so again if they regain government http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/right-wing-myths-howard-governments.html How Kevin Rudd can win the 2013 Federal Election by @independentaus You have to attack Howard’s legacy, because that is what the opposition is dining out on. They think they don’t need policies, because didn’t they stop the boats and didn’t they have a million years of budget surpluses? http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/how-rudd-can-win-the-2013-federal-election/ The weight of expectations start to tell on Abbott by Bernard Keane Abbott for the moment doesn’t appear to be coping at all. He looks brittle, is easily rattled and, most remarkably, has yet to find a persistent line on Rudd (someone in the Liberal brains trust thought “Kevin Kardashian” was a good way to suggest Rudd had no substance, without even the wit to realise it only worked as “Kev Kardashian”). http://coffsoutlook.com/the-weight-of-expectations-start-to-tell-on-abbott/ PNG… What will be the consequences for Abbott and Milne- by Truth Seeker Therefore, there will be electoral consequences for both the LNP and the greens, as it will be increasingly difficult for either of them to justify their previous positions, although I’d imagine they will continue to try. http://truthseekersmusings.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/png-what-will-be-the-consequences-for-abbott-and-milne/ Australia's boundless plains no longer for sharing by Mungo MacCallum worst of all, the politics had become worse than toxic: with Abbott's uncompromising and opportunistic stance there was a real danger that the election could turn into nasty brawl about race, even worse than Howard's dark victory of 2001. Rudd's lurch to the right was not pretty, but if it works and the boats do stop, he will be forgiven much http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-22/maccallum-our-boundless-plains-no-longer-for-sharing/4834950 Cynical? Maybe by @mrtiedt Elections are decided by the millions of people who rock up, Democracy Sandwich in the left hand, pencil in the other and only the vaguest ideas about what each party stands for. Maybe their vote is informed by talk-back radio, or their spouse, or the Telegraph’s letters page. These are the people Kevin Rudd is talking to. http://ausvotes2013.com/2013/07/22/cynical-maybe/ Election now- by @MarkBahnisch Rudd has portrayed himself as a PM of the People, rising above politics, and inevitably, Parliament sitting would drag him down into the mire. He also needs to counter any return to Malcolm Turnbull by the Tories or to another leader. Tony Abbott has opened up that space by his hamfisted performance of late, and a weakened Opposition http://larvatusprodeo.net/archives/2013/07/election-now/ Kevin Rudd wins Caucus support for Labor party reform at special meeting in Balmain by ABC Before the gathering, Deputy Prime Minister Anthony Albanese ruled out an election announcement today, saying: "I can assure you that the PM is not planning to visit Yarralumla today." http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-22/rudd-wins-caucus-support-for-party-reform/4835506 July 22- Shit Sheets to the wind by @Canb_Occasional major metro news will run a whole story on speculation over an election date and not run anything on James Ashby - take off your tinfoil hats, this is not a right wing conspiracy - just construction of a narrative, complex legal arguments and ‘abuses of process’ just aren’t sexy enough. http://canberraoccasional.tumblr.com/ Labor in vain: will the Rudd party reforms work? by @ConversationEDU What will also set the ALP apart is the new provision that a successful leader (a prime minister) may not be removed between elections unless demanded by 75% of the party room. While this may address some of the problems of uncertainty and public legitimacy that have plagued Labor in recent years, http://goo.gl/SGWh0j Open Letter to Prime Minister Kevin Rudd by @theantibogan shored up your racist and bigoted constituency in marginal seats, wedged Tony Abbott and his three-word bogan slogans and attempted to appease those ethical and compassionate people with genuine concerns about unsafe boats full of asylum seekers attempting hazardous voyages http://theantibogan.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/open-letter-to-prime-minister-kevin-rudd/ RBA won't wait for the polls by @TheKouk It is not correct to think the RBA will pull up stumps and go for a break once the election is called. If the RBA Board judges the circumstance require an adjustment in interest rates, they will implement that change in rates. This is in much the same way that ASIC will continue doing its work, the navy will do its work and so it goes. http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/7/22/economy/rba-wont-wait-polls Morgan Poll Update by Roy Morgan Weekly Morgan Poll shows no change: ALP (52.5%) cf. L-NP (47.5%) http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/morgan-poll-july-22-2013-201307220719 Climate change: some reasons for our failures by Robert Manne The nations of the earth are doing very little to avert an impending, entirely foreseeable catastrophe. There are many reasons why – some obvious, others less so http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/22/climate-change-reasons-failure Today’s Front Pages Australian Newspaper Front Pages for 23 July 2013 http://www.thepaperboy.com/australia/front-pages.cfm News headlines http://www.hotheadlines.com.au/

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23/07/2013LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

nasking

23/07/2013 AHHH, SO THE PEOPLE OF AUSTRALIA WANT TONY ABBOTT TO BE THEIR NEXT PRIME MINISTER...GOING BY THE LATEST NEWSPOLL... SO NEWMAN IN QLD, BARNETT IN WA AND OTHER LIBERAL STATE PREMIERS CAN DO WHAT THEY LIKE... AND MURDOCH, RINEHART AND PACKER CAN DO WHAT THEY LIKE. THAT MAKES SENSE. N'

nasking

23/07/2013 TT, I HAVE NO INTENTION OF RESPONDING TO YOU. YOU ARE A BULLY. N'

TalkTurkey

23/07/2013Nasking, I guess your non-response response pretty-well confirms my suspicions in your prejudices, being as it is typical of Jewish responses to any and all critical comment. I'm a bully? You really want some examples of bullying? Check IMF treatment of kids in Gaza. Let us not forget who brought Jewish "persecution" into this column. It was your ownself.

Ken

23/07/2013I've been reading Lynn's links and, in particular, some of the comments on the so-called "PNG solution". I will just repost something I put up near the end of the previous thread: [quote]I think they are missing the point. In this case, the announcement is more important than the plan. If it works (and there are already signs that it may) then there will never be 3000 asylum seekers on Manus, there will never be thousands of boat people to be resettled in PNG. And I think that is why PNG agreed to the plan: they get increased aid in health and education from Australia merely to support an "announcement" knowing that the quantum of the "plan" is unlikely ever to happen.[/quote] It obviously also works poltically leading to the election, appealing to a certain segment of the electorate. If the announcement does curtail the boats, I think some of the savings should be used to support processing of refugees in UNHCR camps, as there still appears to be a major problem there with the delays in processing. And I support the increase in the humanitarian intake through the UNHCR process.

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23/07/2013Ken Your comment is apt. Thank you for it. I'm still working through Lyn's Links.

nasking

23/07/2013 HAVING REFERRED TO THE PRESENT LIBERAL PARTY UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF ABBOTT AS BEING 'EVIL' DUE TO ITS DEFENSE AND PROMOTION OF DESTRUCTIVE AND DANGEROUS INDUSTRIES...I DO THINK THIS OPINION WRITER MAKES SOME VALID POINTS...FOCUSES ON THE TORIES IN THE UK: [b]The political right is the inevitable, rational product of an unequal society[/b]. [b]At its inception, the modern Conservative Party was the political wing of the landed, aristocratic elite, determined to block demands for social change from below. [/b] When a modest extension of male suffrage was presented to Parliament in the 1830s, the hysterical Tory response included denouncing it as “a revolution that will overturn all the natural influences of rank and property”. With the advent of universal suffrage, it became impossible for the Tories to overtly present themselves as a political gravy train for the rich. To defend the interests of the established order, it was necessary to develop a wider popular appeal: whether by promising there was room at the top for the able and willing; through manipulating fears over, say, immigration or crime; by exploiting existing divisions in working-class communities. The human ability to rationalise is powerful indeed. Most of us like to believe we’re “doing the right thing”: a politician introducing a policy that any independent observer will find drives people into poverty will privately justify it to themselves as necessary or unavoidable or for the long-term good of those affected. It allows people – on the right as well as left – to stubbornly believe things in spite of all the facts. Take Iain Duncan Smith, who has a track record of misusing statistics to favour his attack on the welfare state. A former ministerial colleague of his was adamant that Duncan Smith believed in his own righteousness – but, crucially, [b]was capable of holding two contradictory ideas in his head at the same time.[/b] All of our personalities are the complex products of our upbringings; of our interactions with parents, relatives, friends, strangers, those we dislike; of experiences, whether they be traumatic, frightening, exciting, pleasurable. [b]We tend to see things through a prism: we judge the world through our accumulated prejudices and suppositions. That’s why two different people can look at one given episode and draw divergent, even opposition conclusions. New experiences can be used to reinforce our own world view; we can end up discarding those that contradict them.[/b] [b]As is well known, the Tory front-bench is drawn from the most privileged sections of society. [/b] [b]Such a background can – though not inevitably – lead to a failure to understand why people may struggle to get by.[/b] [b]It means mixing with other prosperous people, who they may see as the real drivers of prosperity who just need to be left to their own devices, freed from meddling governments and unions. It is a background that may produce a belief that all who work hard can prosper, because it causes too much insecurity to acknowledge the odds stacked in their favour from birth.[/b] [b]No wonder, then, so many of them end up worshipping “self-reliance”: the idea that all should pull themselves up by their bootstraps, the implication being that those who fail to do so are personally to blame. Easy, then, to justify policies that benefit the rich (who you see as noble wealth-creators) and punish the poor (who you see as those too feckless to climb the social ladder without prodding).[/b] The right is not evil. Neither is it simply “misguided” or “wrong”. It is a symptom, or a reflection, of how our society is structured. Talk of “evil” is best left to theologians. Demonising the right may make us feel good; but it won’t help defeat them. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/owen-jones-cruel-certainly-unforgivable-beyond-doubt-but-the-tories-arent-actually-evil-8724467.html INTERESTING THAT ABBOTT RUNS TO THE UK TO TAKE THE 'BIG SOCIETY' etc IDEAS OF THESE TORIES. A SERVANT FOR THE MEGA-RICH, PRIVILEGED AND PROSPEROUS FAMILIES? N'

nasking

23/07/2013 FROM THE ARTICLE ABOVE: [b]To defend the interests of the established order, it was necessary to develop a wider popular appeal: whether by promising there was room at the top for the able and willing; through manipulating fears over, say, immigration or crime; by exploiting existing divisions in working-class communities.[/b] INDEED. N'

Michael

23/07/2013Polls is polls, or so is said. Ungrammatically. Numbers don't lie. (A lie, incidentally. Through no immediate fault of their own, numbers have been applied in telling some of mankind's hugest hugest hugest... whoppers.) The methodology of how polls are undertaken is far more important than the 'headline' figure. So, I far prefer the Morgan approach of people contacted across various forms of communication technologies to the Newspoll landline telephones-only method. I also prefer Morgan's poll pitched at asking voters how they would direct voting preferences right now as distinct to Newspoll's method of asking for a primary vote and then mathematically allocating preferences as they were generically totaled in the last election, that of 2010 in this case, which I think we can all agree was hardly a 'standard' result to base any sort of average mathematical conclusions on. If you're going to ask people something, why not ask them the whole question, not just seek a topline cue for an arithmetical algorithm to be applied to? Most of all I prefer Morgan's poll because it puts Labor's two party preferred 'vote' 5 percentage points ahead of the Coalition, and THAT, my friends is a far more agreeable result for what it says about my fellow voters than Newspoll's constipated figuring. So, polls is polls, and I'll take mine with a hint of direct and varied human involvement, thanks.

nasking

23/07/2013 NOT AN ISRAELI IN SIGHT: [b]Syrian Sunnis fear Assad regime wants to 'ethnically cleanse' Alawite heartland Homs land registry fire and handing out of arms to villagers fuel concerns that an Alawite-Shia enclave is being formed in Syria [/b] Sunni residents in the heartland of Bashar al-Assad's Alawite sect say they are being repeatedly threatened and forced to flee their homes, amid fears that the likely fall of the nearby city of Homs will lead to widespread sectarian cleansing in parts of Syria. Communities of Sunnis that live in the country's coastal stretch and along the so-called Alawite spine that runs south-east towards Damascus claim evidence has emerged of attempts by the Assad regime to reshape the area's fragile ethnic mix – moves that go far beyond consolidating security in loyalist areas. Concerns are particularly focused on Homs, Syria's third city, which western observers believe is likely to fall to the regime military and Hezbollah by the end of the summer, in what would be the most striking gain yet by resurgent pro-Assad forces during the civil war. All property records for Homs were destroyed in a fire earlier this month at the office of the city's land registry and residents fear they can no longer enforce a claim to their land and homes. "What else could be going on?" asked one resident who refused to be identified. "This is the most secure area of the city and it is the only building that has been burned. A conspiracy is underway." Former staff at the office say the records existed only on paper and had not yet been digitalised. Eyewitnesses in the Bab al-Hood district where the building is located, and several employees, reported seeing flames on the higher floors of the building on 5 July, where the files were archived, while regime forces were positioned on lower floors. Homs and the surrounding province is seen as essential to the war in Syria and to any plan to create a safe haven for Alawites if the Syrian state collapses, as it geographically links largely Alawite areas on the Syrian coast and Shia areas in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley. Both Hezbollah and Iran are strongly linked to the Assad regime, and by proxy the Alawites, and have played an increasingly direct role in the war in recent months – a push that coincides with a turnaround in the fortunes of the battle-worn Syrian military. Homs, long a place where a Sunni majority lived in co-existence co-existed with minority Christian and Alawite communities, has now been a city of cantonments for almost 18 months: Alawite areas are surrounded by security walls that are off-limits to opposition areas. The countryside to the north and east, where Sunni and Alawite communities live nearby each other, has been volatile for much of the past year, with massacres documented in Sunni communities in Houla, Banias and Hoswaie. The apparent cleansing is not all one way though. North of Latakia, Alawites have been chased out of their villages near the Turkish border by opposition groups, which in that area are dominated by jihadists. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/22/syria-sunnis-fear-alawite-ethnic-cleansing BUT OF COURSE IT'S VERY CONVENIENT TO POINT TO JEWISH CONSPIRACIES WHEN ARABS SLAUGHTER ARABS. N'

nasking

23/07/2013 [b]Ed Miliband to put Labour union reforms to vote at special conference Labour leader planning special conference next March, with interim report to be prepared for main conference in September[/b] Patrick Wintour, political editor The Guardian, Tuesday 23 July 2013 Ed Miliband is to gamble his leadership and authority by putting his sweeping reforms of the link between the unions and the Labour party to a special party conference next spring at which the unions hold 50% of the vote. Harriet Harman, Labour's deputy leader, will be heavily involved in a campaign across the party to gather support for the reforms that Miliband insists will be implemented by the time of the next election. A succession of union leaders including Len McCluskey, the general secretary of Unite – the party's biggest funder – have already warned him the reforms could bankrupt the party. The unions are sure to press him for policy concessions in return for seeing their power base so severely disrupted. But Miliband told a meeting of party workers in London on Monday: "We're going to open up policy-making, clean up the lobbying industry, and take the big money out of politics. And we want to let people back in." He said the 3 million trade unionists should be given a "real choice about joining Labour – and then have a real voice inside the party". McCluskey met Miliband last Monday to discuss the reforms and remains sceptical about whether they will work. The GMB has also put intense private pressure on Miliband to drop the proposals, saying they were unacceptable. Miliband proposed a fortnight ago that in future union political levy-payers should choose individually to opt in to affiliating Labour, rather than leaving union leaderships to decide how many of its political levy-payers to affiliate collectively to Labour – currently at the cost of £3 per affiliation. The changes could have a knock-on effect on future union voting power at conference. McCluskey and Paul Kenny, the GMB general secretary, have warned that less than 10% of its political levy-payers will, in these circumstances, wish to affiliate to Labour – a scenario that could create a huge hole in the party's finances on the eve of the 2015 election. Miliband may have to increase the fee of the new category of union supporter affiliating to the party above £3 to plug the funding gap. Such a rise may deter union members from affiliating. Privately, key union figures are deeply sceptical about the plans and fear Miliband's team has not thought them through, including a new requirement that constituency Labour parties will be able to contact union political levy payers directly in their area. The unions say they are data protection issues, especially in an era where employers are blacklisting union activists. Miliband hopes to put the reforms to a special conference next March, probably in London, giving him a six-month battle to force the measures into the party rulebook. An interim report prepared by the former party general secretary Lord Collins will be put to the main Labour conference starting on 22 September in Brighton in an attempt to ensure the issue will be discussed without dominating. Critics of Miliband fear he is picking a possible fight with the unions over an issue the public care little about, and as a consequence, even a victory for the Labour leader will do little to deflect the repeated Tory charge that he is weak. Miliband is also facing hostility from constituencies unhappy at his plans to run primaries for the Labour candidate for London mayor. He has suggested permitting anyone registered as a party supporter up to the day of the London selection contest to vote. Joanne Baxter, a constituency representative on the party's national executive, has written: "What is proposed is a 'closed' primary in which members and 'registered supporters' can vote. "My concern is about non-members having a say in selecting our candidates and the impact this could have on our membership. We need to ensure members still see a value in their membership." Miliband, at his meeting with party members in London, announced that he had asked Harman and Phil Wilson, the Labour MP who helped Tony Blair change clause IV, to lead a party effort to win support for his reforms. In addition Jon Trickett, the shadow Cabinet Office minister and advocate of more working-class Labour MPs, alongside Rachel Reeves, the shadow Treasury secretary, will examine what other reforms are needed to the party constitution. The weakness in the union-Labour relationship was underlined on Monday by a new poll showing only one in eight say they will join Labour if asked and only three in 10 members of Unite would contribute to the union's political fund if they were asked. The union currently pays £3m a year to Labour in affiliations. Unite members are asked whether they want to opt out of the political levy, and in 2011-12 nearly 492,000 of the 1 million members did so. Miliband claimed at a Labour party meeting to discuss his reforms that the poll findings were grounds for optimism. He held out the prospect of a new era of open politics, saying it would be transformative if the party went from 200,000 to 700,000 members over the next three years. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/22/ed-miliband-labour-union-conference INTERESTING TIMES. N'

nasking

23/07/2013 LYN, THNX ONCE AGAIN FOR THE EFFORT YOU PUT IN ON A DAILY BASIS. THIS FROM MR. DENMORE: [b]There are two dimensions to the refugees issue. One is managing the problem itself - a relatively marginal one for a rich economy that leads the developed world on most economic metrics. The second dimension - and the trickier one - is the theatrics around the issue, a charade kept alive by attention-seeking sections of the news media and the frightened politicians they goad into one piece of policy knee-jerkery after another. The facts of the refugee situation - however many times they are raised - don't seem to register. What matters for the dying institutions of our news media is that this issue is an emotive, eyeball-grabbing one, encompassing age-old fears of brown skinned hordes shattering our cosy, white bread suburban lives. As such, it's tailor-made for endless rejigging on the front pages of the Tele and the Hun. So in the tabloid Murdochcracy, it just becomes a question of choosing from a range of instant outrage buttons to push - from "OMFG, The Refugees Will Destroy Our Way of Life!" to "Lax Security is Letting Terrorists Through the Net!" to "Those Bludgers Are Living in Luxury on the Taxpayers' Tab!" to "Refugee Solution Will Blow Budget Surplus!" and, finally, "Won't Someone Think of the Children!" That the tabloid anger pendulum swings so shamefacedly from fanning fear of refugees to pleading for their humanity to calling for security crackdowns to castigating the government for the cost of security is neither here nor there. What's important in media terms is that this story is easy fodder for fulmination and vein-popping outrage in dead trees media and on talkback radio.[/b] INDEED. N'

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23/07/2013Hi Lyn I’ve now read your informative links. The several items about the PNG arrangement are interesting reading. It’s a complex and vexed subject. As usual, Mr Denmore is on the money. After hearing all the ABC radio hype about today’s [i]Newspoll[/i], it was a salutary contrast to read about the [i]Morgan Poll[/i]. While the change from 50:50 last time to 52:48 to the Coalition this time in [i]Newspoll[/i] is within the 3% margin of error, news comment and the Shanahan take was that Labor was losing ground, and the old chestnut was advanced that the Coalition has ‘an election winning lead’. How can such a conclusion be reached when there is no statistical difference between the two polls? If can reached only by journalists who ignore the concept of statistical significance, and who use raw figures to push their partisan line, duly echoed by an unthinking ABC. No wonder statisticians like Andrew Catsaras are dismayed by this ignorant and disingenuous analysis. Why did they not also mention that on the issue of who is best equipped to handle the asylum-seeker issue, the rating of the Coalition had dropped 14 points while Labor had gone up 6 points? Why is the [i]Morgan Poll[/i] almost never mentioned? Is it because News Limited is determined to make its [i]Newspoll[/i] the dominant force? This week’s poll shows Labor in the lead at 52.5 with the Coalition at 47.5. Importantly, the [i]Morgan Poll[/i] surveys a significantly larger sample [b](including people who only use a mobile phone)[/b] than any other public opinion poll, this one 3,572 Australian electors aged 18+. This seems likely to be more valid and reliable than [i]Newspoll[/i]. My view is that, as Kerry-Anne Walsh suggests in her book, News Limited uses [i]Newspoll[/i] not just to report its findings fortnight after fortnight, but to influence public opinion, and persuade voters to ‘get with the winner’, the winner they have already selected.

nasking

23/07/2013 [b]So, I far prefer the Morgan approach of people contacted across various forms of communication technologies to the Newspoll landline telephones-only method. I also prefer Morgan's poll pitched at asking voters how they would direct voting preferences right now as distinct to Newspoll's method of asking for a primary vote and then mathematically allocating preferences as they were generically totaled in the last election, that of 2010 in this case, which I think we can all agree was hardly a 'standard' result to base any sort of average mathematical conclusions on. If you're going to ask people something, why not ask them the whole question, not just seek a topline cue for an arithmetical algorithm to be applied to?[/b] MICHAEL, I AGREE. IF I WERE THE ALP WAITING FOR A GOOD POLL FROM NEWSPOLL TO CALL THE ELECTION I WOULD NOT BOTHER. I DOUBT IT WILL HAPPEN. NOT CONSIDERING IT IS OWNED BY NEWS LTD...RUPERT'S LOT. GO NOW. GO HARD. N'

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23/07/2013Folks Since this piece is a dedication to Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott, let’s remind ourselves of the contribution Rob Oakeshott made to the asylum-seeker debate. It is mentioned in the initial paragraphs of [i]Attentiveness and indifference[/i] by Klaus Neumann in [i]Inside Story[/i] http://inside.org.au/attentiveness-and-indifference/ “[i]Just over a year ago, in the hope that the government and the opposition would endorse a bipartisan response to the arrival of asylum seekers, independent MP Rob Oakeshott introduced the Migration Legislation Amendment (The Bali Process) Bill into federal parliament. The debate in both houses was emotionally charged, with tears shed for people who had drowned while trying to reach Australia by boat. But government and opposition could not agree on the best means of deterring asylum seekers from embarking on the dangerous voyage from Indonesia, and the bill failed. Soon after, Julia Gillard appointed a three-man panel of experts to advise her on how to stop the boat arrivals. “Following their recommendations, the government reintroduced the offshore processing of asylum seekers on Nauru and in Papua New Guinea, and established a “no advantage” rule whereby asylum seekers found to be refugees must wait for as long as they would in the imaginary queue until they are resettled by Australia.”[/i] It is sad that agreement between the major parties proved impossible, but at least Rob Oakeshott gave it his best shot.

nasking

23/07/2013 YOU COULD TELL BY THE INTENSE FOCUS ON THE PNG DEAL ABBOTT AND BISHOP ARE DESPERATE TO GET THE MESSAGE ACROSS TO PEOPLE SMUGGLERS AND ASYLUM SEEKERS THE BOATS CAN KEEP COMING. DESPERATE POLITICAL OPPORTUNISM. MANY TIMES JULIE BISHOP MAKES ACCUSATIONS THEY COMPLETELY UNRAVEL...SAYS A LOT ABOUT ABBOTT'S JUDGEMENT CHOOSING HER TO BE SHADOW FOREIGN MINISTER. N'

TalkTurkey

23/07/2013Michael What a concise and cogent explanation of the basic differences between Newspoll and Morgan. Thanks for that. I sort of knew it, but the simplicity of your comparison makes me feel confident that Yes, Morgan's methodology is far better at getting a representative sample. It's only a momentary snapshot, and the wording of questions is critically important; but just leaving aside the highly emotive world of politics for argument's sake, then it may readily be seen that Morgan would be far more reliable at predicting consumer preferences, or road accident trends, or whatever, than a purely phone poll. It's scientifically better partly because it accounts for people that landlines never reach, and partly because it uses a variety of approaches. Newspoll comparatively is full of holes. I think that the methodology and practice of [political] polling would make a fascinating TV program; it could possibly even extend to a miniseries considering the various personalities who could be brought into it and the educational value of it, [i](which latter could be made palatable to peeps as long as plenty of bitchiness and conflict between the parties was involved!)[/i] That wouldn't be hard to arrange! There'd be Politicians from all sides; Pollsters from several companies, from Directors to footsoldiers; Academics such as Anthony Green; Statisticians such as Ghost Who Votes from the 5th Estate; Mainstream Media (wouldn't it be fun sheeting their shyte home to them!) People in the Street! If less than half of the Australian population knows how long it takes the Earth to orbit the Sun - (let alone how many would even know what you were talking about if you asked 'em how long it takes [i]Terra[/i] to orbit [i]Sol[/i] !) - think how few have a grasp of the notion of statistical significance! Does anyone else think there would be a TV show in it? The stories the footsoldiers doing the asking could tell would be amazing!

nasking

23/07/2013 I NOTICED THE ABC IS KEEN TO PUSH THE MURDOCH NEWSPOLL BUT NOT THE MORGAN POLL THAT SHOWS ALP AHEAD. ALSO JOE O'BRIEN AND MORNING CREW KEEN TO PUT UP MURDOCH TABLOID 'THE SUN's FRONT PAGE RE: ROYAL BIRTH. ABC 24 ALSO CONVENIENTLY LOST THE FEED WHEN RUDD WAS ABOUT TO OFFICIALLY OPEN THE NEW ASIO HEADQUARTERS. GUESS THAT'S WHAT YOU GET WHEN MARK SCOTT, EX-LIBERAL ADVISER RUNS THE SHOW. N'

nasking

23/07/2013 ANOTHER FROM LYN'S USEFUL LINKS: COALITION WAITING FOR THE BUNKER TO EXPLODE: [b]The largest source of friction within the party, according to my sources, is the Ministry positions handed to friends of Abbott. “How can we expect to be taken seriously in the electorate with people like Morrison, Abetz and Greg Hunt being our speakers - the whole thing is just a timebomb waiting for one of them to go too far" the source told me. [/b] "[b]The bars were pretty full on the night we put Abbott in charge - people wondering what on Earth they had just done - and when he put Sophie Mirabella in the Ministry, I mean that is fucking insane. Putting her on Q&A.. I mean, people just laugh.. in some ways losing this election will be a step forward if it allows us to keep Mirabella away from a microphone"[/b] "The cleverest political thing Abbott has done is to go so hard on the ALP over changing leaders - that means it will be too painful for us, despite how many people want to, to install Julie Bishop or Malcolm Turnbull" So well all looks calm above the water, you can be assured that what you’re looking at is not unity but reluctance. The rage is gone, but in its place is fear - fear that someone will strike a match. http://canberraoccasional.tumblr.com/ TICK TOCK... N'

Ken

23/07/2013Not sure if any one else has posted this but it is Rob Oakeshot's take on the carbon debate - he argues that the real debate should be about biodiversity and managing the landscape because food security will be a major issue for this century. He concludes that the Australian people are being played for fools. [from "The Global Mail"] http://www.theglobalmail.org/blog/carbon-the-political-slaughterhouse/660/ I also find his reporting of Abbott's comment when he was starting negotiations in 2010 very enlightening.

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23/07/2013Folks For another slant, here is the link to this weeks [i]Essential Report[/i], in which for those who are interested, the TPP is 51:49 for the Coalition, compared with 52:48 last week. The accompanying questions are of more interest. http://essentialvision.com.au/category/essentialreport

nasking

23/07/2013 The Catholic education sector has signed up to the Federal Government's "Gonski" Better Schools funding plan, saying it will "deliver significant increases" in funding for every child in the Catholic system. The National Catholic Education Commission says it is confident that "no school will be worse off" and is "appreciative of the constructive way" the Federal Government has resolved any concerns. "The arrangements will progressively deliver increased Commonwealth funding to each state's Catholic education system based on common measures of student need across all education sector," the Commission said in a statement. The agreement will affect one in five, or 735,403 students currently enrolled at 1,706 Catholic schools across the country. Western Australia, the Northern Territory, Queensland and Victoria have not yet signed up to the multi-billion-dollar scheme that was spearheaded by businessman David Gonski. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-23/catholic-schools-sign-up-to-gonski/4837944 EDUCATION MATTERS... INVESTING IN YOUTH IS SO IMPORTANT. THEY WILL BE PAYING THE TAXES OF THE FUTURE... THEY WILL BE MAKING, MANUFACTURING AND DELIVERING THE GOODS AND SERVICES... THEY WILL BE THE GUARDIANS OF OUR ENVIRONMENT...AND ENERGY DELIVERY... ENSURING CLEAN AIR, WATER AND FOOD...SO OTHERS WANT TO VISIT HERE...AND BUY OUR GOODS IN AN INCREASINGLY TOXIC WORLD. N'

nasking

23/07/2013 IT'S TIME TO DISPEL THE MYTH THAT THE LIBERALS ARE BETTER ECONOMIC MANAGERS...IF WE HAD GONE DOWN THEIR ROAD WE WOULD HAVE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH, MASSIVE ASSET SALES, SERVICE CUTS AND LOTS OF UNEMPLOYED AND CHEAP SHONKY JOBS TO GET THRU GFC...AND HOW MANY INTEREST RATE RISES IN A ROW DID WE GET UNDER HOWARD WHEN HE CONTROLLED BOTH REPS AND SENATE? AND WHAT ABOUT THE ABC CHILDCARE COLLAPSE? HOW MUCH WASTED ON THE DISASTROUS

nasking

23/07/2013 HOW MUCH WASTED ON THE DISASTROUS IRAQ WAR?

nasking

23/07/2013 THE NEWSPOLL SUITS ME. IT KEEPS ABBOTT IN PLACE. :D N'

Catching up

23/07/2013So Australia should be sending the people to Manus Island before the necessary health checks and immunization for topical diseases has occurred. Just tell one, how much understanding Abbott has of the present situation. I believe it takes u[ to a fortnight for this to occur. Does not sound unreasonable to me. Sounds like a prudent action to take. Just imagine, if one sent them withing the next 24 hours, and some became ill, or even died. Not too sure,it is in the interest of Australia for Abbott to keep undermining the message, that one wants to send to the smugglers. Yesd, Abbott is indeed their friend.

nasking

23/07/2013 FINANCE IDIOT JOYCE RECKONS IF THE ALP GETS VOTED IN AGAIN THE COUNTRY "WILL GO BROKE"

42 long

23/07/2013abbott the saboteur. Process, truth, respect for government, separation of powers, the economy by destroying confidence in it .Global warming action. An expensive bold move to fix the boat passage persons drowning in crappy boats. NO sabotage it!! Anything positive He destroys it. No idea where he is going but he want's to be the driver. Who does he serve, and will reward? no secrets there, and it won't bode well for ordinary people.

Catching up

23/07/2013I see we are now back to debt. Did one see today, that the returns on super are higher that it has been for years, because of the strong share market. Come to think of it, I have only heard that mentioned this morning on ABC 702 Local

nasking

23/07/2013 INTERESTING...JUST SPOKE TO A QLDer WHO DOES DELIVERIES AND MEETS A LOT OF PEOPLE AND HE RECKONS THE POSITIVE RUDD AND POSITIVE ADS ARE GENERALLY GOING DOWN WELL... THE PROMOTION OF THIS GOVT'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS. PEOPLE THINKING "HEY! THIS GOVT HAS DONE A LOT...HAS GOT SOME GOOD POLICIES".

42 long

23/07/2013There are many who think Gillard did absolutely "nothing", while in power.. The MSM have done their job of creating illusions and falsity well. Gatekeepers? More than that. Fact hiders and story falsifiers. Reporters? Hardly. The boss won't want that. No benefit (for him) in it. Why for one minute would anyone think the paper proprietors have the readers welfare in mind?

BSA Bob

23/07/2013Abbott's efforts to wreck this latest AS proposal are, as 42 long says, about his being in the drivers seat no matter where we're going. If he succeeds in his attempts to sabotage this latest AS proposal, no matter what you think of it, he will have been instrumental in proving to the people smuggling industry that yes, you CAN come to Australia. A position he won't be able to recover from in government. The people smugglers can, I feel, lay on many more boats than Tony can provide towing vessels to...where? Fascinating that the media continues to omit to mention that turned back boats & their cargoes won't go to particularly ritzy places either, no it's only Labor who wear the consequences of where these people end up. I've long been one of those who feels that Abbott doesn't really care about anything. He's going to Heaven & whatever happens in this vale of tears is of small account. Oh sure he's got things he'd like to do as have we all, but they're all negotiable, can be forfeited in the pursuit of other objectives.

el gordo

23/07/2013'There are many who think Gillard did absolutely "nothing", while in power.. ' Gillard made bad policy decisions because she had to form a minority government, Rudd is walking away from that unholy alliance with the greens and the rank and file refugees are returning to the party because of his good policy decisions.

Catching up

23/07/2013This will be the third AS effort that Abbott has thwarted. First was when he refused legislation, to allow the Malaysian Solution to go ahead, after the courts found problems. The second was when he refused to allow the Houston Plan to be implemented. Now he is doing his best, to assist the smugglers by sabotaging the PNG plans. This, in spite of Labor re-instituting most of the Howard Pacific Solution, that Abbott demanded be bought back.Abbott continues to undermine all that Labor attempts, in spite of the harsher Pacific Solution, not working. I really believe it is time for Abbott to drop his negativity, and return to a bipartisan stance. There are too many babies and kids getting on those boats. I hope that the second prong in Rudd's scheme, is to up processing in the region, and empty many of those camps. That we take all we can afford at this time. Abbott needs to put a sox in it. He needs to move aside, as he has become a big part of the problem. In fact, I believe, he is the problem.

Jason

23/07/2013el gordo, Rubbish! what policy? so far all Rudd has offered are his election promises nothing more nothing less! As far as his reforms go, has there been a national convention I was unaware about? Power brokers like Shorten love the idea of this new openness so much he tried filling two seats in Victoria with some of his own filth! Sadly for him the two selected were the current incumbents picks that won the ballot!

nasking

23/07/2013 VERY IMPRESSED BY JENNY MACKLIN ON KITCHEN CABINET... A LOVELY, GENUINE, HUMBLE, HARD-WORKING, INTELLIGENT WOMAN... AN ASSET TO THE GOVERNMENT. THE CURRIES, RICE AND BREADS LOOKED GORGEOUS, VERY YUMMY...COMING FROM AN INDIAN FOOD ADDICT. I LOVE IT WHEN JENNY THROWS A WELL-TIMED QUIP ACROSS THE FLOOR OF PARLIAMENT. N'

DMW

23/07/2013In honour of the gentleman rightly honoured in this fine article consider this very worthy cause Van Badham ‏@vanbadham 1h Want to purchase good karma? Donate a fiver to the rural Independent taking on Sophie Mirabella in Indi: http://bit.ly/indyindi

lyn

24/07/2013Today’s Links Making Sense of the latest Opinion Polls good luck with that, by @FairMediaAllian Thanks for the pic to Lynne’s Daily Links, The Political Sword, The Paperboy Once again, Mr Abbott finds himself obliged to argue against his own stated position. Who should he be wooing? The voters who are happy with Rudd’s PNG plan? Or the voters who will always be unhappy with anything less than an open-door policy? Or something in-between? http://fairmediaalliance.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/making-sense-of-the-latest-opinion-polls-good-luck-with-that/ Federal politics – voting intention On most issues, the Labor Party has gained ground on the Liberals since last month just before Kevin Rudd took over the leadership. However, the Liberal Party has maintained strong leads on management of the economy, controlling interest rates, security and the war on terrorism, treatment of asylum seekers and managing population growth. http://essentialvision.com.au/category/essentialreport Consumer Confidence jumps 3.1pts to 117.5 after Rudd announces early end to the Carbon Tax by Roy Morgan Australians are now more confident about their personal finances compared to this time last year with 32% (up 3%) saying they are ‘better off’ financially than this time last year and 28% (down 3%) saying they are ‘worse off’ financially. http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/consumer-confidence-july-23-2013-201307230445 Weekly aggregation by @Mark_Graph an aggregation that is largely unchanged. [But note: I have down-weighted the Morgan sample size in this week's aggregation to better match the variance we see in that polling series. I have also relaxed the day-to-day change constraint in the temporal part of the model. I am using the one-percent figure I originally used http://marktheballot.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/weekly-aggregation.html Arresting O’Shannessy (1): The Initial Evidence by Bob Ellis It is important this poor bullied lying man be put in handcuffs soon. He is guilty of terrible crimes. One is probably treason. He conspired in wartime against two Prime Ministers, and he should get twenty or thirty years for this. The other crime, poll rigging, will attract a lesser sentence. http://www.ellistabletalk.com/2013/07/23/arresting-oshannessy-1-the-initial-evidence/ Forced migration nation in a global context by @independentaus In order to properly consider the global context, we need to consider some facts. We need to be prepared to rethink our position on the flow of people around the world. In 2011 asylum applications world-wide grew by 20% to 73,300. This was the highest number since 2003, http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/forced-migration-nation-in-a-global-context/ Substances, invisible and otherwise: our mailbag runneth over by Alix Piatek Moving immediately to a floating carbon price would result in "a black hole of up to $15 billion in the budget". We rated Joe Hockey's statement Mostly False.It seems the Liberal strategy is: throw everything (truthful or not) at the enemy and see what sticks... if you are discovered lying... run for cover!! Disgraceful. http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/article/2013/jul/23/substances-invisible-otherwise-mailbag/ The right's anti-wind campaign is pure scaremongering by @JohnQuiggin2 Their tribal hatred of environmentalists has driven them into a position of denouncing any technology favoured by their enemies. The only invisible substance with which Abbott and his backers should be concerned about is their disappearing intellectual credibility http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/23/abbott-wind-turbines-health-effects?CMP=twt_fd July 23- A source within the Liberal Party… by @Canb_Occasional Only weeks ago, the Liberal Party were contemplating a record breaking rout of the ALP in September. Even then, there was a significant group of MP’s within the party who never accepted the idea that a madman like Abbott was the boss. Those who know him understand that he is always on the edge, and now that the panic has set in, http://canberraoccasional.tumblr.com/post/56197271868/july-23-a-source-within-the-liberal-party John Lords Election Diary (Tuesday 23 July 2013) by @saint13333 the fact is it’s mainly because I believe this is the most critical election I will ever vote in. Social media enables me to have a say. Too voice an opinion. I intend to do just that. The Labor Party (My party) has a suite of policy initiatives on the table that are major reforms. http://theaimn.com/2013/07/23/john-lords-election-diary-tuesday-23-july-2013/ Low Cost Drones, Falsity, Pies, Diatribes, The Rat, And A Word Or Two by @knarfnamduh the NO Coalition to demonstrate that they would ‘RECTIFY THE BUDGET’ whilst they would ‘STOP THE BOATS’ thoughts turned to the purchase of drones which would help ‘STOP THE BOATS’ and how they might lower the cost of said drones; http://deknarf.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/graphical-manipulations-44-low-cost-drones-falsity-pies-diatribes-the-rat- Mal Brough defiant - I'd do it all again by @no_filter_Yamba Mal Brough says he has no case to answer over the Ashbygate affair and said he would act the same if he had his time over again. http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/mal-brough-defiant-id-do-it-all-again.html Coalition’s Soil Carbon Plan Unviable by Jennifer Marohasy THERE will soon be a federal election in Australia. One of the issues that should be discussed and debated is ‘climate change’ and how the Australian Labor party, led by Kevin Rudd, versus the Conservative Coalition, led by Tony Abbott, plan to address this important issue. http://jennifermarohasy.com/ Australia’s Slow-Motion Car Crash by Bernard Lagan Once Ford has left, Australia’s strict import controls on used vehicles will lose one strong defender. Proponents of allowing the importation of more used cars can also fairly point to the tens of millions of taxpayers’ dollars thrown at Ford over the years, in what can now be seen as a fruitless attempt to get the car maker to stay. http://www.theglobalmail.org/blog/australias-slow-motion-car-crash/625/ Broadband by @electionwatch BROADBAND REMAINS a key point of difference between Labor and the Coalition’s policies going into the election. In summary the key differences in broadband policies are: http://2013electionwatch.com.au/policy/broadband Today’s Front Pages Australian Newspaper Front Pages for 24 July 2013 http://www.thepaperboy.com/australia/front-pages.cfm News headlines http://www.hotheadlines.com.au/

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24/07/2013LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Curi-Oz

24/07/2013I feel quite sad that two such politicians who really thought hard three years ago about what to do have decided to leave parliament, due I suspect to the amount of crap that has been thrown at them by the LNP and its supporters. I watched three years ago the excrutiating 17 minutes of Mr Oakeshot's speech, amazed that he took the time to explain his choice. I think I realised then that the MSM were not actually interested in reporting the 'sausage making' aspect of politics, but were more interested in a bullied horse race. I have not been disapointed in the lack of reportage on the 'sausage making', because if it had been reported properly I believe that the hollowness of the current LNP would have been highlighted long since, and the holes in the ALP might have been plugged too. We now have to deal with the situation as we currently find it. Full of small-minded, mean and future-scared offerings. How the hell are we to choose between them?

Ken

24/07/2013Just to put everything into perspective! http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=81702&src=eorss-iotd

BSA Bob

24/07/2013Curi-Oz About Oakeshott's 17 minute speech. I heard a journalist complaining about its length on the grounds that others of his profession had deadlines to meet, implying he should've made it shorter for them. Government in accordance with the media's convenience. A bit like their triumphalism over the scheduling of 2010 debates around cooking shows, you know, Important Stuff.

Curi-Oz

24/07/2013Thanks Ken, I am thus reminded of the updated version of the "Galaxy Song" by Idle and Cox? http://tinyurl.com/lq9dmqr The original can be found here http://tinyurl.com/94c4xf9

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24/07/2013Curi-Oz Thank you for your comment. You ask"[i]We now have to deal with the situation as we currently find it. Full of small-minded, mean and future-scared offerings. How the hell are we to choose between them?"[/i]. No matter what we might think of Kevin Rudd's behaviour towards Julia Gillard, the prospect of an Abbott-led government is too awful to contemplate.

el gordo

24/07/2013'Rubbish! what policy? so far all Rudd has offered are his election promises nothing more nothing less!' With Kev its policy on the run, cleaning up some of the unpopular things that jools did. At the moment I'm voting informal, on a matter of principle, CO2 does not cause global warming. It seems mass delusion is widespread.

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24/07/2013Hi Lyn I did enjoy reading the items on the polls. We are being conned again by those who comment on [i]Newspoll[/i]. Irrespective of any inherent defects that might exist in this poll, it is the commentators, such as Dennis Shanahan, who mislead us with their interpretation. I notice that after starting the day with Labor's reported regression in the poll, by evening the ABC was pointing out that the variation from the last [i]Newspoll[/i] was within the margin of error, and that other measurements taken with the poll showed Labor benefitting from the RRA with PNG. So the ABC had changed its tune completely from morning to evening. Which raises the question of who on earth writes ABC news items. Do they simple echo Shanahan? It seems so. Perhaps someone from Labor had put a flea in their ear during the day, and someone who actually knows something about polls wrote for the evening bulletins. As usual, Bob Ellis was outrageous but entertaining. I'll catch up with the other links later as we are shortly returning to the south coast.

jaycee

24/07/2013This "el gordo" character must have been chased off Miglo's site and, having tired of sprinkling dessicated coconut on her lamingtons, she is trying it out here!.....what a waste of discussion space!

Catching up

24/07/2013Maybe someone has encouraged el gordo to try her luck here again. Has been very quiet lately. Maybe she has something new to say, I do hope so. Seen the lady, that believes in kerosene baths, out representing us oldies today, in Queensland, along with Abbott.

Catching up

24/07/2013Put the subtitles on when watching PC. One gets to see what the questions are.

Catching up

24/07/2013Yes, one gets the feeling, that Rudd is now stalking Abbott. Something we know, he does with great finesse.

42 long

24/07/2013Would those who say the CO2 doesn't cause global warming think that reducing it wouldn't cause an ice age?. The effect of things like CO2, Methane and some refrigerants are well known when present in the atmosphere, which is really quite thin fragile and finite, and essential to our existence in many ways. You can't release heaps of carbon locked up under the seas and soils into a gaseous component of the atmosphere without expecting a change to occur. Greenhouse gas effect of CO2 is accepted by all accredited scientists Scientists deal with facts, and accept the need for peer review and assessment. It's an ongoing thing. BELIEVE what you must for whatever reason you do but to deny science is replicating what all the theists down through the ages did and were always found wrong as we collectively learned more about the nature of our universe. Knowledge is only a threat to people who are scared of FACTS or who wish to retain some belief for their own interests. ALL despots tried to stifle knowledge and still do. Knowledge frees the mind not constrains it.

Catching up

24/07/2013I strongly suspect that Rudd is completing what Gillard put in place. No matter how clever the man is, he could not have put in place the PNG or moving to the market trading of the CEF, in the time he has. Along with the meeting with the Indonesia leader. All would have been in the pipeline, longer than Rudd has been back as PM. One does not get agreements between leaders, without much ground work being laid before the meeting.

42 long

24/07/2013Things don't JUST HAPPEN. Everything you see on TV is set up one way or another. Sometimes an interview takes ages to arrange other times it will be an ambush with broken assurances given to get the victim there (or just sprung by surprise or savage editing will give the desired result or effect. Bullying like Jon Faine is resorting to unfortunately lately too. Not happy Jon, but you sold your soul a while ago so lIE in the bed you made for yourself.

bob macalba

24/07/2013Thankyou Lyn, as always i leave your links feeling better informed, the effort you put in is amazing,day after day yeah a big big thanks...cheers

bob macalba

24/07/2013Curi-Oz....we are but specks of dust in a big place, and thanks for giving me an excuse to link to the most scrumptious Kate Bush http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYSCHKmvcIY cheers

Catching up

24/07/2013Yes, Runaway Bay. Did one notice the new strategy, that backfired and was a little messy. Surround one with oldies, and get them to ask the questions. I am sure all prepared before hand. Trouble is, the oldies were slow off the mark.

Catching up

24/07/2013Abbott not doing too well, in the NPC of Hewson.

Ken

24/07/2013Catching up @12.28 Agree that much of what has happened since Rudd took over would have already been, at least, part-way developed previously. As an ex Public Servant, I know how long these things take, especially when negotiations and consultations are involved. And also remember that the Public Service can push for things over and over again - e.g. the GST. Treasury had that on the burner from the early '80s. I think they first raised it with Howard when he was Treasurer, then with Keating, but they didn't forget and eventually got it through, even though Howard as PM had promised "never ever". Keep an eye in the future for more tax reforms. The Treasury definitely want a major tax overhaul to guarantee government coffers as the population ages. We had the Henry Review, which the Government largely ignored, but Treasury won't have forgotten. Bits of it will pop up now and then in the future until they get someone who will agree to the changes.

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24/07/2013Doesn't make sense to tax those who have no capacity to pay and then give them some payout so they are not an embarrassment because of their poverty. The Labor party don't tax incomes till 18,000 and Phoney wants to put it back to commencing at 6,000. Couple that with a larger rate GST on everything and you have just buggered any poor bastard living in a caravan park . They are disappearing (The low cost permanent ones) so are we going to be living on rubbish tips or favela's on the edge of town or begging in the streets? There has been a consistent move for increasing the gap between rich and poor with a lot of very well off thank you people around who actually live in a parallel universe compared to people like teachers, police, nurses etc

Bacchus

24/07/2013Likewise Ken, I have heard that the Home Insulation Program was a dream of public servants well before 2007, and the FTTP NBN idea was also well advanced within the PS...

Gordonwa

24/07/2013Hi Ad, Thank you for this fine piece on two genuine Members of Parliament. Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor are thoroughly decent blokes who did exactly what they said they would do. Thanks to them and Julia Gillard the parliament worked. On another matter, you mentioned the ABC's coverage of Newspoll. The presenters of their Breakfast News 24, no doubt reading from the script, repeatedly said the ALP was 'sliding' in the polls. To be fair, Melissa Clarke their political correspondent was at pains to point out that the 'movement' was within the margin of error. In discussion Virginia Trioli agreed with her but then went back to the "sliding' script when reading the news headlines. Sigh.

lyn

24/07/2013Hi Ad, Thankyou for your comment to me @ 11:49 AM. I listed the Polls for you because I get so astounded at the fake reporting and as you say we are being conned by the Political Reporters. Dennis Shanahan the Champion “King Misleader”. Yes and ABC is News Ltd’s chief supporter. Yesterday all day Joe ABC presenter was saying Labor has lost ground, Labor losing ground. One thing that is very noticeable is they are calling Kevin Rudd Prime Minister most of the time, but never paid the courtesy to Julia. Bob Ellis is good fun, in fact he is hilarious, makes me laugh everytime all the time. Hi Bob Macalba how are you going, good I think. Thankyou to you as always. ♥ ♥ Khtagh I am delighted to see & read your posts on TPS & thankyou to you. Nasking thankyou glad you enjoyed Andrew Elder, I love his opinion . Here is a new ad being released by the Labor party tonight, sounds really good, about time they started correcting Abbott’s lies. A few interesting links for you all:- The facts on debt australianlaborour new TV ad across the country giving Australians the facts about our economy and level of debt. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYcgM5H-uH4&feature=youtu.be [quote]Tony Abbott's chief of staff to plead guilty to drink driving after she was charged on night of Budget reply [/quote] Ms Credlin's lawyer Ben Aulich submitted a letter to Magistrate Beth Campbell which said that "due to her high profile public position" she would be unable to attend court until the September date. [b]"I'm just a bit embarrassed because I don't even know who she is," Magistrate Campbell said[/b]. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/tony-abbott8217s-chief-of-staff-to-plead-guilty-to-drink-driving-after-she-was-charged-on- [quote]Kevin Rudd's debate challenge to Tony Abbott puts doubt on August federal election by Malcolm Farr[/quote] The Prime Minister wants a head-to-head debate with Mr Abbott before he calls the election. Mr Abbott has said he would only oblige during the campaign or in Parliament. Mr Rudd said he had been invited to debate Mr Abbott on air at a Melbourne radio station next week. "The challenge is within one week - name the day," he said. [b]Mr Abbott has declined. [/b] http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/kevin-rudd8217s-debate-challenge-to-tony-abbott-puts-doubt-on-august-federal-elect [quote]Speers to cut Abbott's rhetoric[/quote] SKY News host David Speers will ensure Opposition Leader Tony Abbott answers the questions when he faces a People's Forum in Launceston tomorrow night" [b]My job is to make sure they get the answers or at least an answer from Tony Abbott, not just a diversion or a slogan. [/b]"That's where I come in, to pull him up if he hasn't answered a question and see if he is willing to engage with the question." http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2013/07/24/384142_tasmania-news.html

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24/07/2013now abbott and morrison make us look like barbarian neocolonials with the PNG PM. Predictable isn't it? sabotage abbott. Smash everything as long as he gets to pick up the pieces. This MOB will leave us with no relationship with our nearest neighbours and the more boats that come the better for the abbott. Are they stupid or just desperate?

Ken

24/07/2013Bacchus Yes, you are probably right about the insulation program. It would have been floating around and when Rudd asked for programs that could be implemented quickly to fight the GFC, someone would have brought it 'out of the bottom drawer", shown it to Garret, and said, yes, we're ready to run with this, it will provide low-skilled jobs and assist energy efficiency, a double win a Minister can't refuse. Yes, for a Public Servant, it's often just a matter of waiting for the right circumstances and dusting off an old draft policy. Bu coincidence I live in a street named "Bacchus Circuit".

Bacchus

24/07/2013:D Ken. Small world :D

TalkTurkey

24/07/2013Bacchus Sounds like a short-circuit to a DUI charge! Good to see you Comrade

Ken

24/07/201342 long The answer to your question is both - stupid and desperate!!!

Ad astra

24/07/2013Gordonwa Thank you for your comment. It amazes me that intelligent presenters on the ABC can mindlessly repeat the nonsense they get from News Limited about the polls. Surely they must know enough to realize it's nonsense. We could be excused for believing that the actually want negative messages about Labor to gain currency even when they know they are disingenuous.

Ad astra

24/07/2013Hi Lyn Thank you for your comment and the extra links. As usual, they make interesting reading. Kevin Rudd is playing with Slogan Abbott's mind. Let's hope David Spears bans slogans from the Abbott man in Tasmania. I wonder what he will say without his slogans. He will sound like a monk without his mantra - mute!

TalkTurkey

25/07/2013Twitter as a communication mode begs me to write instant rhymes but 140 characters is awful because most limericks need 160-180 & U hv 2rite abrviatd wh sortof spoilsem Quatrains aren't so much fun but they fit more easily. Like this: Best word for how Abborrt ambles? Struts, shuffles, swaggers, shambles? SIMIAN gait when he's walking - But REPTILIAN when he's talking! Any suggestions for a better word? It's a simian shamble with musclebound *hutzpah*! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There was something amazing happened just then. I've never used that last word before that moment, and [i]as I was actually typing it[/i] the word was used by Ben Knight in a report on TV - [i]at that very moment! [/i] I've had that happen with commoner words but that felt weird! :) HUTZPAH! OOOPS!- Well I thought that was the word but there's no such word listed but there is CHUTZPAH! But I'm sure Ben Knight said HUTZPAH! But anyway I'm still after the best word in the language to describe Abborrrtt's simian as-if-musclebound affected tough-guy/hood threat-display zombie knuckle-dragging shambling gait. Because I can't find one word to describe it and that's a GAP! SUGGESTIONS? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TalkTurkey

25/07/2013Lynnie Even if I don't say so I ALWAYS appreciate your links. Earlier today I tweeted Rob Oakeshott telling him of this thread by Ad astra, and he got back to me saying he'd just then read it - (i.e. no-one had pointed it out to him before!) - and he said he appreciated it and that so would Tony Windsor! So I told him that MANY here were deeply grateful, that the fact no-one had apprised him of this thread was a Fail by the Fighting 5th in terms of communication, and directed him to your links @lynlinking ! Because what you always do is the best possible way to help spread knowledge - but at what cost to your time! So if you do that for all of us all the time I reckon the rest of us ought to sing your work's praises in every way and direction we can. Here's the way that conversation went: ‏ I said @OakeyMP Rob did you see Ad astra's tribute to you and Tony Windsor? http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2013/07/21/Tony-Windsor-and-Rob-Oakeshott-two-gentlemen-politicians.aspx#comment … We all appreciate your work & your pain. Thanks. and Robert Oakeshott MP ‏@OakeyMP replied: @TalkyTurkey I have just read it, and certainly appreciate the sentiment. I am sure Tony will as well. Thank you. Rob (and Nellie ‏@woolkebb said) @TalkyTurkey @OakeyMP an excellent tribute - please spare a thought for all of us here in Lyne we will never have a member like RO again And I said @OakeyMP Rob reading only 1 TPS thread wd give U only a taste of HOW MANY Fighting 5th Folk hold U2! Thanks never enough - THANKS! @woolkebb And I followed it up @OakeyMP Side issue: U only just saw it. No-one drew yr attn 2 it! Fighting 5th must lift its game! Lyn @lynlinking is heroic,TPS each 7AM! Whereupon AngryBudgie said to me @TalkyTurkey I like that "Fighting 5th" do you mind if I borrow it - a lot? So I told him @Angrybudgie If you like The Fighting 5th, you're PART of it Comrade! And he replied ‏ @TalkyTurkey It has a nice ring to it and if the worst happens we may need something to call ourselves. pic.twitter.com/xownt2CnSM So I told him I never meant the term Fighting 5th Estate frivolously and that this was bloody serious! ;-) It's a dynamic thing Twitter. The whole cybersphere of course, but we must USE it better and better. Swordsfolks Ad astra has given us the facility of posting to many notables at a stroke, he wants us to use it as much as possible. I must admit I have rarely done so but I promise I will in future.

lyn

25/07/2013Today’s Links Tony Abbott Launches Verbal Assault Against Kevin Rudd Over PNG Asylum Seekers Deal By Reissa Su The Coalition continued its verbal assault on July 23 regarding the Australian Labor Party's asylum seeker deal with Papua New Guinea. Mr Abbott and Julie Bishop, his shadow foreign affairs minister, have both attacked the deal on two angles. http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/494014/20130724/tony-abbott-kevin-rudd-asylum-seekers-coalition.htm#.Ue-5oEpArX4 PNG PM Peter O'Neill warns Coalition to stop misrepresenting foreign aid deal by ABC Peter O'Neill told the ABC's PM program he was disappointed about how his statements had been misinterpreted and misrepresented by the Opposition. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-24/png-pm-warns-coalition-to-stop-misrepresenting-aid-deal/4841552 PNG slaps Abbott over reaction to boatpeople deal by Ben Packman It's understood the criticism relates to Mr Abbott's suggestion yesterday that Australian aid would be wasted under new rules giving PNG a greater say in spending priorities. http://asopa.typepad.com/asopa_people/2013/07/png-slaps-abbott-over-reaction-to-boatpeople-deal-.html Local government referendum could be a flop by @independentaus Abbott has backtracked. He now clearly wishes he hadn’t been so easily persuaded. His recent comment that voters should “feel free to vote no” has probably killed the referendum for good. He however needs to be careful. Supporting the government in the parliament and then backtracking in the electorate is a seemingly foolish thing to do. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/local-government-referendum-could-be-a-flop/ The “Don’t Look At Me” Newspoll by @archiearchive But what is that “+” after the headline “TWO-PARTY-PREFERRED”? If we look below we see it is because the Northern Territory was left out of the numbers WHAT????? The Northern Territory no longer votes in an Australian election? http://archiearchive.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/the-dont-look-at-me-newspoll/ John Lord’s Election Diary Wed 24 July by @saint13333 I would urge everyone to examine the Essential Research. It can only ever be a guide but it is never the less very revealing. The one thing that Essential does reinforce is the unpopularity of the opposition leader. http://theaimn.com/2013/07/24/john-lords-election-diary-wed-24-july/ Asylum seekers: effective policy is based on evidence, not emotion by @ConversationEDU For two decades arguments based on a variety of interpretations of what justice and morality may involve have been presented again and again. And since prime minister Kevin Rudd announced plans to process and resettle boat arrivals in Papua New Guinea and deny them asylum in Australia, the same arguments are in evidence. http://theconversation.com/asylum-seekers-effective-policy-is-based-on-evidence-not-emotion-16274 Does Australia take the most refugees? > Check the facts by Facts Fight Back The facts: The UNHCR Global Trends Report 2010 shows that Australia took one refugee per 1, 000 population and ranked 69th in the world for per capita refugee intake. 2012 UNHCR figures for absolute refugee intake show that Australia took nearly 30,000 refugees and ranked 49th in the world. http://www.factsfightback.org.au/does-australia-take-the-most-refugees-check-the-facts/ Asylum Seekers , The PNG Arrangement, The Nauru Riot & Allegations about Manus by @FairMediaAllian Tony Abbott began on Friday by agreeing with the PNG arrangement, but having ‘slept on it’, he came out swinging. His ridiculous demand yesterday that the latest arrivals be sent to Manus Island immediately – within 24 hours, without time for medical checks, vaccinations or for staff and facilities to be put in place http://fairmediaalliance.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/asylum-seekers-the-png-arrangement-the-nauru-riot-and-allegations-about-manus/ Why I’m in favour of the PNG solution by Hieronymous There is no easy solution, something that the liberal left has to accept. There is no happy ever after resolution. Drastic action is called for, but within the parameters we set as a civilised society. As it stands right now, this solution proposed by Rudd appears to be the most satisfactory in satisfying both criteria http://hieronymous.net/2013/07/24/why-im-in-favour-of-the-png-solution/ It’s not the refugees that are politically expedient, but the LNP and the greens! by Truth Seeker So it is fairly clear that Abbott does NOT want Rudd’s plan to succeed, and as with his bid for the top job, he will do and say anything to achieve his political ambitions including screaming from the roof tops “STOP THE BOATS”, whilst actively working to make sure that they “don’t” stop. http://truthseekersmusings.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/its-not-the-refugees-that-are-politically-expedient-but-the- The Great Undebated- Rudd and Abbott on climate change by The Observerant In the absence of Kevin Rudd’s debating partner turning up for the debate he’d unilaterally called for at the Press Club recently, I thought it might be interesting to construct a fictionalised version of how Rudd and Abbott would have tackled the debate, had it happened. http://www.theobserverant.com/ Origin Energy’s blurred vision by @LarvatusProdeo Origin Energy chief Grant King in an interview with Alan Kohler reckons carbon would have to be priced at about $40 a tonne before Origin and other major suppliers would move away from developing new coal-fired power stations. http://larvatusprodeo.net/archives/2013/07/origin-energys-blurred-vision/ The Climate Institute by Joh Connor It has been an extraordinary period since our last newsletter. In that newsletter we recognised the contributions of Julia Gillard, Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott. We have since celebrated the anniversary of the carbon laws they negotiated. Our biggest companies now finally have to start http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=eae1d834b59f8926a4770e337&id=ed2f51a558&e=fd76408fd9 Election 2013 climate change policies: @GrattonWilson The change is to an Emission Trading Scheme (ETS) with a floating price on carbon commencing at around $6 tonne. This was formally announced by the Prime Minister on 16 July to become operational in July 2014. The move to an ETS will cost the Budget $3.8 Billion which will be found by making savings in the Budget http://nofibs.com.au/2013/07/18/election-2013-climate-change-policies-grattonwilson-reports/ 'Reform' just a marketer's word for change by @1RossGittins one side or the other using their political influence to get the rules shifted in their favour. We could go on playing that tit-for-tat game forever. But we have achieved a reasonable - if, inevitably, imperfect - balance, and it's time we gave up the delusion that legislative change is key to better relations in the workplace. http://www.rossgittins.com/2013/07/reform-just-marketers-word-for-change.html June CPI Figures–Inflation growing at 2.3% by @GrogsGamut Today the June Quarter CPI figures came out showing that inflation had increased by 0.4% in that quarter and by 2.4% in the past year. In seasonally adjusted terms the figures are 0.5% and 2.3% respectively. http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/june-cpi-figuresinflation-growing-at-23.html The faulty arguments that stifle the NBN’s potential by Mark Gregory As realisation sinks in that the Coalition’s “cheaper and built faster” argument won’t wash with Australians, critics are now jumping on every anti-NBN bandwagon rolling by, and some are resorting to FUD. ( Fear, uncertainty and doubt) http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/7/24/technology/faulty-arguments-stifle-nbn% NBN cost explosion? by @macro_businessHonestly, who’d be a government in Australia. You get a public caning from the media for running deficits and then when you drive a hard bargain for the tax-payer (think FBT) in an off-balance sheet enterprise with real and long lasting economic benefits you get this from The Australian: http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/07/nbn-cost-explosion/ The facts on debt australianlaborour new TV ad across the country giving Australians the facts about our economy and level of debt. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYcgM5H-uH4&feature=youtu.be Today’s Front Pages Australian Newspaper Front Pages for 25 July 2013 http://www.thepaperboy.com/australia/front-pages.cfm News headlines http://www.hotheadlines.com.au/

Ad astra

25/07/2013LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

BSA Bob

25/07/2013So many manifestations on a basic theme... As with the PNG plan, so with anything, it's very simple. Criticise Labor, let anyone else combine to rant on unchecked with the only proviso being that you try to keep their more obvious contradictions apart. But if you fail there it doesn't really matter. Oh, & of course let Tony tell us that he'll fix it all. Bad luck Mr O'Neill & PNG, you got in the way of Mr Abbott & his supporters. Let that be a lesson to you.

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25/07/2013In one way or another the LieNP wrecking crew trash the reputation of all our near neighbours, and insult them. Vote that abbott mob in and we are approving their actions. Colonialism is in their past and any semblance of it would be inflammatory. Abbotts wreckers are barbarian with NO manners or niceties about them. Gillard NEVER embarrassed us. Phoney never fails to. Dump this team before people think WE are all like HIM. Many in the LieNP know what he is like. Neutralise him soon.

Michael

25/07/2013I wrote a week or so ago that Bwana Morrison had essentially declared war on Indonesia. Now he and Abbott want a 'three star' officer to head up a completely independent refuguee-pummelling division of Australia's armed forces. The Chief of Army is a three star officer, a Lieutenant General. Think about this for a moment. The very chief of the Army, the man who leads all this nation's ground forces and ancillary support units, is to be placed on a level with Abbott and Bwana's chief reffo-basher. Do Coalition politicians have even the inklings of brains! Apart from the racist and brutish idea of even forming such a target-specific, and non-military target specific, unit, to assert that controlling the flow of asylum-seekers towards Australia requires a command structure and status absolutely equivalent to that of the entire Army...??? What sandpit are these two idiots playing in? And since this is the only question that conservatives seem to treat with any weight or importance - "where's the money coming from? PNG's aid budget?" And while we're talking about sandpits, is this new supremo of the terrifying northern horizon going to be on one end of the famous 'boatphone'? Is this ultimately about no more than the strutting of a small man with an urgent desire to not only observe that "shit happens", but to spread it? And if General Biffo stops the boats, what happens then to all those enlisted men and women, all the inftrstructure to support them, all the equipment allocated to them? Apart from that, since most of what we have heard about and from service men and women who have actually had to handle encounters with refuge seekers, and all that has entailed from deaths at sea to lives spent in years of detention, is that it has cause them emotional and psychological anguish, what will Abbott and Bwana do with all those homegrown victims of this ridiculous, childish, and masturbatory policy?

TalkTurkey

25/07/2013I put this on Twitter: Rain or shine Wet or fine Lyn's Links reach us Right On Time! 7AM ! http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2013/07/21/Tony-Windsor-and-Rob-Oakeshott-two-gentlemen-politicians.aspx#comment … Thanks Lynnie our precious amazing Tweety Bird:~)

Austin 3:16

25/07/2013Hey Ad [quote]It amazes me that intelligent presenters on the ABC can mindlessly repeat the nonsense they get from News Limited about the polls. [/quote] Why? It sounds like you expect the ABC to somehow above the media pack. The "fake pilot names" media incident in America was a great example of just how lazy and slapdash the main-stream media can be

N'ellie May

25/07/2013TT at 12.20 am, Chutzpah is the correct word, hutzpah is how it's pronounced. Thanks to a friend of mine who is Jewish. Love your work, TT. Ad and Lyn, Thank you both so much for your continued work, don't know how you keep it coming so beautifully. What a great effort!

BSA Bob

25/07/2013If we'd had a Labor announcement today, by midday or so the ABC would've been well into "the Federal Opposition says..." mode. Not so for this stuff, their mainstream radio bulletins are still talking about Sovereign Borders. But it seems from what I've heard that this is just more of the same only with bigger ships, guns & general pomp. No new stuff on how the boats'll actually be stopped? And of course it's totally off limits to ask where these people will go once they've been turned around (all together now "if safe to do so!!!").

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25/07/2013Would someone like to comment on the legality of turning around a boat on the high seas by force. Pegleg abbot the pirate runs amok.

BSA Bob

25/07/201342 long It's OK for Tony, he can do it 'cause he's Special.

Michael

25/07/2013Even Neil James from the Australian Defence Association, who routinely sinks the boot into Labor in government, couldn't find anything sensible about Abbott and Bwana Morrison's formation of a fourth defence force, Army, Air Force, Navy, and now... the Bwana Boats. He pointed out on this afternoon's ABC Capital Hill that the Coalition concept trips up on the nation's civil constitution, throws a spanner into existing interagency relationship protocols between the public service and the military establishment, and introduces an imbalancing chain of command ruction in the military top echelons, creating an entirely new seventh 'three star' rank in Australia where the six existing ones are distinct and specific roles, not porridge across-all-forces and bureaucrats thrown in for 'good measure' czars like Abbott and Bwana have in mind. Has anyone in the "sandpit" considered that one angry shot towards Indonesia by personnel trained to militarily respond could lead to war, not started from the top, but fomented by an unnecessarily hot-border operational snafu boiled over by political grandstanding? Stinks like rancid testosterone... off a bicycle seat.

bob macalba

25/07/2013Help keep our borders safe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw join now and help tony

TalkTurkey

25/07/2013 N'ellie May You said [i]Chutzpah is the correct word, hutzpah is how it's pronounced[/i] Eureka! That Explains It! I'm all warmed through with smiles! How amazing. I sort of got it right after all eh. And that came right on top of Bloke-on-TV saying that very word as I was in the act of typing it for the first time I ever used it - at all, written & spoken both! - and that is all suspiciously FAR OUT! [b]Chutzpah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Chutzpah is the quality of audacity, for good or for bad. The Yiddish word derives from the Hebrew word ḥutspâ (חֻצְפָּה), meaning "insolence" or "audacity". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chutzpah[/b] Dam I can't even remember how I used it now!...? ... Oh yes it was about the way Abbortt [i]square~gaits[/i]. Because that's what he does, physiologically, like an early animation of Godzilla (in his mind) whole left side together, whole right side together, the way harness horses are made to race. Horses don't square-gait naturally, they have to be forced to do it because they go a tiny bit faster that way than if they do their natural beautiful high-stepping trot. And neither do humans squaregait unless they are obese &/or musclebound. Think Sumo wrestlers eh! But you see it in bikies all the time. Their arms and legs would look ridiculous swinging like little porkers' hams, they move their whole bodies [i]ugh~ugh~ugh~ugh[/i] like a capital X. With them it [i]becomes[/i] natural, to compensate for unnaturally high body mass indices, (and their bikie mates all do it so it's [i]un[/i]cool [i]not[/i] to!) but here's the kicker in all this, [i]with Abborrtt, who has an [i]admirable[/i] physique, it is an AFFECTATION because he thinks it looks tough.[/i] The point is that Abborrrtt has Bully written in his every gesture, every utterance. And there ought to be a WORD, the perfect verb, to describe his lumbering threat-display bullying bear-like gait! - Or the love of my life, Mother English, has FAILED! :( ! That brings me to the IMPORTANT* bit N'ellie May You said [i]Love your work, TT.[/i] Heh heh N'M I'm aglow! Thank you so much you can't know! See I was called a bully myself the other day, right here on TPS, and yes, maybe - indeed, yes indeed! - I do say some cutting things when I think they are deserved, but Dam, this here's the Political SWORD! Sometimes I feel a bit abrasive, and sometimes I mean to be, but bullying is unfairness, and I am not unfair. So Thanks N'ellie May, I'm going to take your comment as approval. Little things mean a lot.

Gorgeous Dunny

25/07/2013A bit late in responding, Ad Astra, but well done for praising our independents Oakeshott and Windsor, who did so much to make the 43rd parliament a successful one. They brought integrity back into the parliament. They helped redress the imbalance that had occurred on infrastructure investment, which had seriously declined in the Howard years. They filled a gap that the Nationals had left since they rebadged from the old Country Party and went after mining support. Carbon pricing, the NBN, investment in schools and health owes as much to them as to PM Gillard and her team. I think it is significant that right to the end they maintained confidence in Gillard's governance. She reciprocated.

DMW

25/07/2013I find it very interesting that most bullies are in complete denial of the abhorrent and despicable behaviour. I find it interesting that most bullies are also prone to claim that their actions have some other higher purpose. I guess it has something that is done to protect the hurt little child that resides within. I wonder if being kind to bullies is a help or a hindrance?

lyn

26/07/2013Today’s Links National service by @awelder Operation Sovereign Borders takes one of the greatest prizes in politics - the benefit of the doubt - and denies it to Scott Morrison, to Tony Abbott, and to the Liberal/National/LNP/CLP candidate in your electorate. It gives the benefit of the doubt to Kevin Rudd. http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/national-service.html Opposition's plan to combat people smuggling by Australian Defence Moreover, the Coalition plan envisages a senior ADF officer answering directly as a commander, for a non-military function, to the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Rather than through the legal chain of command to the Chief of Defence Force and then to the civil control of the Minister for Defence http://ada.asn.au/commentary/formal-comment/2013/oppositions-plan-to-combat-people-smuggling.html Coalition wants military commander to lead fight against people smugglers by ABC Kevin Rudd said "He's got a new three-word slogan today, I think it's called Operation Something-Or-Other," he said. "So we've now got two three-word slogans: 'Stop the boats - Operation Something-Or-Other'." http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-25/coalition-wants-military-led-campaign-against-people-smugglers/4842264 Military reshuffle: Abbott’s ‘Operation Sovereign Borders’ by Bernard Keane This new military structure for immigration would mark a departure from existing Defence arrangements, in which service chiefs report to the Chief of the Defence Force, who reports to the defence minister as part of a “diarchy” structure with the secretary for defence. http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/07/25/military-reshuffle-abbotts-operation-sovereign-borders/ Abbott unveils response to Rudd's PNG plan: Operation Sovereign Borders by Katharine Murphy Australian Defence Association has raised serious objections to the plan. In a statement the ADA said: “As a constitutional and legal principle the Australian Defence Force should not be used for civil law enforcement unless it is a real emergency and the relevant civil agencies do not have the specialist resources to cope.” http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/25/abbott-png-operation-sovereign-borders Tomorrow when the war began! Australia's 'national emergency' by @YaThinkN Since when was this country in state of “national emergency” for hells sake? I am sure there are an awful lot of nations in the world who really do know exactly what a national emergency is. What Australia is experiencing with an increase in Asylum Seeker boat arrivals http://yathink.com.au/article-display/tomorrow-when-the-war-began-australias-national-emergency, IMMIGRATION POLICIES are one of the most hotly debated issues between the major parties. by @electionwatch_ in this election there is evidence of an even greater ‘turf war’ over more narrow aspects of asylum policy in particular. How they compare http://2013electionwatch.com.au/policy/immigration How to break the people smugglers’ real business model by Anne McNevin The boats come because of the hope for protection. Deterrence in the form of the PNG solution, or its Pacific alternatives, does not extinguish that hope. It simply delays indefinitely the provision of protection under conditions that prolong and exacerbate the suffering of some of the world’s most vulnerable people http://inside.org.au/how-to-break-the-people-smugglers-real-business-model/ It’s not you. It’s all of us. by @fakeedbutler It has long been a joke that the natural progression of Coalition policy on boat-borne asylum seekers would involve spraying machine-gun fire into the Indian Ocean. And we are now one step closer to that reality. http://ausvotes2013.com/2013/07/25/its-not-you-its-all-of-us/ Tony Abbott to launch “targeted military operation” against boat refugees by turnleft2013 Tony Abbott, the man who thinks he is entitled to be Prime Minister, has put out a press release explaining “Operation Sovereign Borders”. Posted on Tony Abbott’s website, found here Operation Sovereign Borders http://theaimn.com/2013/07/25/tony-abbott-to-launch-targeted-military-operation-against-boat-refugees/ My Bare Bones Refugee Election Logic by @wrb330 No PNG isn’t perfect, it has many issues yet to be resolved. But at least the ALP says under their Government these people still have a known destination and we will endeavour to assist them on an ongoing basis. http://wrb330.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/my-bare-bones-refugee-election-logic/ A National emergency, declared by a National embarrassment, supported by a national disgrace! by Truth Seeker With the retired Major (Nut-job) General (Disaster) Jim Molan designing an LNP policy for complete overkill (pardon the pun) of the asylum seeker/ boat issue, we now have “A National Emergency? declared by Tony Abbott (A National Embarrassment), Supported by the LNP (A National Disgrace)”, http://truthseekersmusings.wordpress.com/ Future media weathers feeble old media attacks by @madwixxy An article in The Australian recently referred to Independent Australia as conspiracy theorists. This totally inappropriate attack is not only cowardly but totally unfounded. The attack was in regards to the ongoing Ashbygate investigation which, along with the Jacksonville investigation, http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/business/media-2/future-media-weathers-feeble-old-media-attacks/ Declining electricity consumption in Australia by @JohnQuiggin2 Of course, a lot of this is the fortuitous result of high electricity prices, driven mainly by distribution costs. But it’s certainly an impressive demonstration that lower energy consumption does not mean lower living standards. http://johnquiggin.com/2013/07/25/declining-electricity-consumption-in-australia/ Why the RBA will cut rates by @TheKouk With the CPI data confirming inflation is particularly low and showing no signs at all of lifting, the RBA can enhance its focus on the objective of full employment. In doing so, it seems a near certainty that it will deliver a cut in interest rates in August. http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/7/25/interest-rates/why-rba-will-cut-rates Inflation is too low. Stand by for a pre-election rate cut by @1petermartin Governor Glenn Stevens has made it clear in the past that election campaigns do not prevent him from adjusting rates as he thinks he should. “If it is clear something needs to be done I do not know what explanation we could offer the Australian public for not doing it http://www.petermartin.com.au/2013/07/inflation-is-too-low-stand-by-for-pre.html It’s Time – for Positive Political Advertising by Roy Morgan Coalition advertising attacking Kevin Rudd’s record alienates a large number of voters including Coalition supporters, this week’s Roy Morgan Reactor test finds. http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5059-reactor-its-time-for-positive-political-advertising-201307250639 Election Dates and Extended Three Year Terms by @AntonyGreenABC Depending on which newspaper you read this morning, the election is either certain to be called this weekend for 31 August, or it is certain that the election will not be until October. Obviously one of these stories is wrong, and by Monday we will know which it is. http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2013/07/election-dates-and-extended-three-year-terms.html Today’s Front Pages Australian Newspaper Front Pages for 26 July 2013 http://www.thepaperboy.com/australia/front-pages.cfm News headlines http://www.hotheadlines.com.au/

2353

26/07/2013Correct me if I'm wrong - but wasn't the state of the Federal Government's finances "a national emergency" a month or so ago - or was that the NBN rollout? Now it is the plight of refugees - a topic that neither of the large political parties can currently demonstrate compassion and concern for human rights. The better question is has the term "a national emergency" been work shopped and found to gain traction by the LNP's "faceless men"?

Ad astra

26/07/2013LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ken

26/07/20132353 You are right. I also picked that up. Perhaps it started with "The Intervention" in the NT. That was also referred to as an "emergency" but as Downer later admitted, after the election, it didn't give the LNP the bounce in the polls that they expected. It certainly seems that the LNP believe that if they call something an "emergency" that it will be a vote winner but they don't seem to have learned from history.

TalkTurkey

26/07/2013Don't vote for Abborrrtt! A Coward and a Cad! In Yer Guts Ya Know he's Nuts! He's simply MUCKING FAD! He's gone a bridge too far this time, desperate to out-nasty Rudd. He sees himself invested with Almighty power, like Charlton Heston being Moses, arms outstretched, parting the waters, the tide and the winds obeying his command ... He's insane. The Navy knows it's being dudded in a very serious way, and it will not wear it. The whole AS issue, always supposedly so lethal for Labor due to Abborrrtt's 'most effective OL ever' attacks, has turned around on him like an errant torpedo, and it will finally sink the bastard. It's like the time he offered Wilkie a BILLION dollars (as a blatant bribe) when Wilkie asked for $300 million. Hubris. A, er, um, ahh don't cut it no more. OOh I despise this excuse for a man. I see he was not gladhandedly received in Tassie last night. No warmth for him, hard Q's on Education he didn't answer. He can't. It's crazy that at this stage of an election year we could still be talking about Turdball getting up as LOTO. And had there been a spill a week or so ago it might have been a problem, him being so POOPular and all. But, I think, no more. To jump now would look like blind panic, which is what the Abborrrtians are experiencing anyhow but they don't want the Peeps to know that! Turdball would obviously not be able to take the Navy idea into the election - since that is what would have just sunk Abborrrtt - and where would he go for policy on AS then? Snookered. And why would Turdy want the disgrace of defeat falling on him? It's pathetic how sycophantic the Media are with Rudd compared with how disrespectful they were to *J*U*L*I*A*. I wish she were still PM because I long ago bet on the way she would have played these last months, I did not feature Rudd's maggotry, but at least there is no doubt that the media creeps do give Rudd the credence they never gave her. And of course Abborrrtt never did believe he would have to last a full term before the election, his slogans were only expected to last a few months, and the fact that he has stayed afloat so long is due solely to the disgraceful failure of the MSM to make him account and their equal-and-opposite refusal to give *J*U*L*I*A* decency. I will never forgive them. In the washout, The Fighting 5th Estate is going to win this election. And the Murdochracy is going to be one of the great losers.

E

26/07/2013I have been unable to even think about politics for the last few weeks. It seems that we are sinking as a country as more asylum boats sink. Politicians on both sides are like headless chooks. Whatever happened to decency? Both major parties are using asylum seekers as fodder for their own agendas. Whatever it takes to get elected. You can't touch pitch without getting dirty. I am so angry and disappointed. We don't seem to have leaders anymore. Just followers of the lowest common denominator. The political sword is a place of reason, mostly. Thank you for regulating the trolls. I was feeling abused. I averted my eyes and scrolled quickly past them. I can't imagine what kind of people dish out hate and resentment constantly. It must affect their well being. In spite of everything, I still believe that the vast majority of people are decent. I want to hear what they have to say. We can have a difference of opinion. It's all only opinion, some more reasoned than others. Thank you Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott.

bob macalba

26/07/2013Shame one of the trolls had to follow your comment E, keep scrolling past the buggers though.....cheers

TalkTurkey

26/07/2013E Knees Up Wee Black Goat Keep your hopes afloat! What to cry goes: [i][b]VENCEREMOS![/b][/i] When you go to vote!

42 long

26/07/2013The more the abbott does, the more you see how lacking he is. A "lacking Lackey". Mirror mirror on the wall, regard the biggest disaster of them ALL. Still Shockey is not far behind for incredibleness or is it "credlin ness". Who IS writing the script? As Hewson said "this is Phoney's election to lose. Debate SOMETHING Tony. YOU are the one who wanted this job SO MUCH and consistently trashed fine things in your attempt to install yourself in the highest position in the Land. Show us what you are made of BUCKO. I think I already know.

nasking

26/07/2013 PETER VAN ONSELEN IS A POOR HOST ON CONTRARIANS...HE INTERRUPTS HIS PANEL WITH HIS BIASED TOXIC VIEWS LIKE A DRUNK SHOCK JOCK. VERY EGOTISTICAL AND IMMATURE.

nasking

26/07/2013 I'M RUPERT MURDOCH AND I GET AWAY WITH EVERYTHING BECAUSE I HIRE SCUMBAGS WHO DIG UP SH*T ON MY OPPONENTS AND POLITICIANS SO I CAN THREATEN, CAJOLE, BULLY AND BUY THEM FOR MY NAPOLEONIC PURPOSES. SCOTT MORRISON WAS BORN FROM A BOIL ON MY BUTT...I GOT MOST OF MY STAFF FROM UNDER A MOULDY BED IN SLIMEVILLE WHERE A LIZARD MATED REPEATEDLY WITH A SNAKE: Allen lifted circulation during his time at the Tele and became legendary for his ability to turn relatively minor stories into front-page splashes. He ran a survey on the number of children born out of wedlock on page one under the heading “A NATION OF BASTARDS”, as Stephen Mayne recalled in a 2000 Crikey profile. He also ordered the Tele’s New York correspondent to fly to Washington, obtain a sheep, and tie it to the White House gate to protest US import quotas on Australian lamb. Since 2001 Allan has been editor-in-chief of the New York Post, an unprofitable tabloid that is impossible to ignore because of its often outrageous front pages. Allan’s memorable cover splashes include “AXIS OF WEASEL” (accompanying a story on Germany and France’s opposition to the Iraq War) and “V-D DAY: Paris liberated, bimbos rejoice” on Paris Hilton’s release from jail. There have been slip-ups though, big ones. In 2004, Allan ran a front-page story announcing Missouri Congressman Dick Gephardt would be John Kerry’s running mate (he wasn’t). And the Post was ridiculed for its error-prone coverage of the Boston bombings—two men, who featured on the paper’s front page, are suing over an article that made them look as if they were suspects in the case. The paper was accused of racism in 2009 for publishing a cartoon depicting Barack Obama as a crazy chimpanzee. http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/07/26/news-corp-veteran-col-allan-returns-to-oz-to-advise-kim-williams/ COL COMES TO THE LAND OF OZ TO SPREAD MORE OF RUPERT'S POISONOUS PELLETS: N'

nasking

26/07/2013 VERY GOOD LYN...VERY GOOD WORK...THIS FROM [i]POLITICALLY HOMELESS[/i]: Crusty old sailors are belittled when their training and equipment is diverted by politicians to beat up hapless asylum-seekers as invading armies, as threats to our border security and our social security more broadly. The Royal Australian Navy is already finding it difficult to crew submarines and other ships. This task will become harder as the perception grows that being in today's Navy basically involves confronting hundreds of wretched people and being able to do very little for them. Today's sailors - and soldiers, and airmen, and security agencies - face the prospect of a government that has no clue what they should be doing, how they should be doing it, and why they do it at all. This pamphlet basically aims to cleave each of those agencies in twain and give them separate command structures. Does a sailor have a Navy command when on exercises, then report to the separate command structure when engaging with a refugee boat, and then revert to naval command once the encounter is over? Abbott's reference to some as-yet undefined person as "three star" is an Americanism that won't appeal to the people to whom it was targeted - marginal seat voters in Australia - and will be confused with the classification scheme for tourist accommodation. Unless wacky Jim Molam is the "three star" Abbott and Morrison have in mind, it is difficult to see how a serving officer would be prepared to tread on so many toes across so many agencies in the everyday execution of their duties. http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/national-service.html IT'S NOT THE ABORIGINAL INTERVENTION...IT'S THE REFUGEE INTERVENTION...STARRING RUPERT MURDOCH AS SUPREME COMMANDER SLIME...GENERAL JIM MOLAN AS PATTON'S CLONE...TONY ABBOTT AS CAP'N EL DESPERADO...SCOTT MORRISON AS THE BOIL ON RUPERT'S BUTT...AND JULIE BISHOP AS BARONESS THATCHER'S LEFTOVER DINNER FROM THE FALKLAND'S SAGA....AND CHRISTOPER PYNE AS LIEUTENANT SPINELESS WONDER IN CHARGE OF MOBILISING STUDENTS TO BECOME THE NEXT 'REFUGEES UNDER THE BED' ARMY OF COWARDLY INTENT. THANKYOU NEO-CONS, MUSLIM EXTREMISTS, SRI LANKAN WAR CRIMINALS, MIDDLE EASTERN TYRANTS, OIL AND MINING BARONS, MORDOCH EMPIRE, COCK JOCKS AND HONEST JOHN FOR THE TOXIC MEALS WE HAVE RECEIVED...AND THE BLESSED CRAP WE HAVE BECOME. YOU SHALL BE REMEMBERED FOR YOUR OFFERINGS. N'

nasking

26/07/2013 WHEN YOU HAVE SLIMEBAG MURDOCH AND HIS CRONIES WATCHING YOUR BACK...AS ABBOTT DOES...YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH PRETTY WELL ANYTHING: Former prime minister Julia Gillard says Australians would have been more outraged at her treatment as a woman if she were black. In a lengthy interview conducted while Ms Gillard was still Labor leader and published in the latest The Monthly, Ms Gillard said politics had become more combative, particularly in recent years under minority government in Australia. ''Is the stuff against Barack Obama because he's African American? ... Or would they have played as hard as that against any successful Democrat? Well, I suspect it's a bit of both,'' she said. ''I think some of the stuff about me, because it is about gender, gets glossed over more easily.'' In March 2011, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott stood at a rally against the carbon tax beside signs that read, ''Juliar: Bob Browns [sic] Bitch'' and ''Ditch the Witch''. ''If I was the first indigenous prime minister, and (Tony) Abbott had gone out and stood next to a sign that said, 'Ditch the black bastard', I reckon that would be the end of a political career,'' Ms Gillard said. ''And it's not less because it's gender. But it's been treated as less.'' Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/julia-gillard-surprised-by-impact-of-misogyny-speech-20130726-2qp4q.html#ixzz2a8W7m8Vs THE FACT THAT TONY ABBOTT IS STILL THERE TELLS ME A GREAT DEAL ABOUT THE PRESENT DAY LIBERAL PARTY AND QUITE A NUMBER OF AUSSIE VOTERS. BUT THEN...THIS IS THE COUNTRY THAT WIPED OUT ABORIGINES IN TASMANIA...WHEN NOT VILIFYING AND INCARCERATING AND STEALING LAND FOR MINING FROM THE OTHERS...EXPLOITED KANAKAS...VOTED IN PAULINE HANSON OFF THE BACK OF HYSTERICAL FEARS OVER 'BEING SWAMPED BY ASIANS'...JOYFULLY IMPLEMENTED A POLICY FOR DECADES CALLED THE WHITE AUSTRALIA POLICY...CALLED HARD WORKING MEDITERRANEAN-ORIGINATED MIGRANTS 'WOGS'...AND JOINED GW BUSH IN A CORPORATE PROFITEERS' DREAM WAR ON EVERYTHING... I EXPECT NOTHING LESS THAN AN UGLY AUSTRALIA TO DOMINATE...TIME AND TIME AGAIN... BUT LIKE STH AFRICA...THERE WILL BE A RECKONING ONEDAY. N'

BSA Bob

26/07/2013Would anyone who watched the ABC 7pm news agree with me that even for them it was pretty crook? A lengthy criticism of Treasury's figures paving the way for Mr Hockey to inform us that he wouldn't be using Treasury figures anymore, no sir, from now on he'd be getting his numbers from political allies in State governments & industry groups. Must be OK with Aunty because nary a peep from her. Then onto a selection of criticism about the PNG issue, no mention of Sovrin Borders tonight so it must've been judged a bad'un needing more polishing. I was a bit dazed by this time but I'm sure I detected some sort of whinge that if PNG stopped the boats their cargos would pile up in Indonesia. An undeniable truth & something needing a bit of work, but in years of uncritical acceptance of the notion that Tony would tow them all back I've never heard this one. I'd be inclined to think I may've misheard but there's not much I'd put past the ABC now?

nasking

26/07/2013 SEEMED LIKE AN ACT OF FOOLISHNESS FOR LIBERAL PETER DUTTON ON LATELINE TO BE ACCUSING PM RUDD AND RICHARD MARLES OF TALKING BIG AND NOT FOLLOWING THRU...WHEN IN FACT THE COALITION ACCUSED THEM OF DOING SO IN THE PAST OVER THE CAMPAIGN TO GET A UN SECURITY COUNCIL SEAT... AND DIDN'T THE COALITION LOOK STUPID WHEN IT BECAME A REALITY? YET ANOTHER 'WHYALLA' MOMENT FOR THE ABBOTT OPPOSITION. YOU CAN CRY WOLF ONLY SO MANY TIMES... N'

Mal Kukura

27/07/2013PLEASE FORGIVE ME NASKING FOR SAYING IT BUT THE DIMWITTED DUTTON PERFORMANCE REMINDED ME YET AGAIN THAT HE AND HIS PSYCHLONE GANG ARE LARVAL BEINGS LOST IN COGNITIVE TRAPS THAT CONDEMN THEM TO NIHILISTIC MENTAL ILLNESS MINIMIZING THEIR AWARENESS OF REALITY BY ALIENATION AND CULTIVATING THE USUAL SYMPTOMS OF DENIAL AND PROJECTION AS THE FREUDIANS AND PSYCHOLOGISTS IN GENERAL ARE WONT TO SAY IN DIAGNOSING WHY SOME PATIENTS ACT OUT MOTIVATIONS ORIGINATING IN THEIR UNCONSCIOUS PSYCHES WHILE SYSTEMATICALLY DENYING THEY ARE DOING SO AND SIMULTANEOUSLY BLAMING WHOEVER IS CONVENIENT - ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO EXPOSE THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE.

TalkTurkey

27/07/2013Everyone's going down [b]The Pub![/b] "Sit down, have a drink, relax ..." http://pbxmastragics.com/2013/07/26/thank-goodness-its-friday/comment-page-3/#comments Perhaps they're right. Since *J*U*L*I*A* was rolled it feels like, [i]What's it matter about principle, it's a lost cause[/i]. Ah well. It feels like the final scene in George Orwell's [i]Nineteen Eighty Four[/i]. http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79n/chapter3.6.html [b]Chapter 3.6[/b] "The Chestnut Tree was almost empty. A ray of sunlight slanting through a window fell on dusty table-tops. It was the lonely hour of fifteen. A tinny music trickled from the telescreens. "Winston sat in his usual corner, gazing into an empty glass. Now and again he glanced up at a vast face which eyed him from the opposite wall. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU, the caption said. Unbidden, a waiter came and filled his glass up with Victory Gin, shaking into it a few drops from another bottle with a quill through the cork. It was saccharine flavoured with cloves, the speciality of the cafe. "Winston was listening to the telescreen. At present only music was coming out of it, but there was a possibility that at any moment there might be a special bulletin from the Ministry of Peace. The news from the African front was disquieting in the extreme. On and off he had been worrying about it all day. A Eurasian army (Oceania was at war with Eurasia: Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia) was moving southward at terrifying speed. The mid-day bulletin ..." Written in 1947! Surely the Book of the Age. Yes I think Rudd Labor will win the election - but then, I always believed that Gillard Labor would anyway. The key would have been not for her to try to make herself popular, but to destroy the credibility of everything in the Opposition and make people aware of the Government's achievements and its vision. She had it all planned, but the whole 53% of Caucus, those of little faith, finally wet themselves with fear and here we are. Ah well. So a lot of the passion has passed from the Fighting 5th, it seems to me. I'm not of a mood to write much that's lyrical, (what, about Rudd?!) What rhyme I do write is rancid, raging about the Rabid Right. And that seems to be the case with my few lyrical comrades, mmm, where's the poetry gone eh. It's probably because we feel irrelevant after all. We will win without us, but it won't be the same. In fact we probably feel we're mostly in the way, well I do anyway. I was girded and geared for battle, revving up, ah gee. Poor Craig Emerson, poor Peter Garrett and Greg Combet, heart-broken they must be from relevance deprivation, what a shame, what a loss. And most of all, poor darling *J*U*L*I*A* herself. Are we surer of a Labor win than we were before? Well I'm not, and remember, I was he who long ago put money on it. The "odds" on the betting agencies went down but that's not an election win, it's only a matter of who's put money where, and they have less idea than I do myself. By the living Dog bloody Rudd had better bloody win this bloody election or he is walking dead in my eyes. The shameful truth is that what he has going for him is that NOBODY with any decency wants Abborrrtt, that negative alone will suffice to win Rudd power, Hell it's not as though Abborrrrtt is a hard target, he's stupid and cowardly and all that is needed is a daily dose of ridicule and taunting. Rudd has all Gillard's stored ammo and Abborrrrtt looks helpless in the spotlight. And don't forget *J*U*L*I*A*s giving the Pug Thug a bloody nose over the Misogyny Speech. One speech where she gave him a straight Left, a speech which echoes forever around the world! I was so looking forward to the last couple of rounds. Ah well. Let's see Rudd do that. No he won't of course because he shares a great deal of DNA with Abborrrtt himself. Except he has cleverer, dirtier ways of fighting dirty, that leave him smelling like cologne. So anyway, he'll pull back some votes from bigots I suppose, but they'll stay bigoted against feisty unmarried nontheistic red-haired female leaders, pathetic as that is, and the rest of us, well we're not going to vote LNP so that's the thinking. Victory by default, same old same old, religious, righteous, pious, disingenuous, lip-servicious, cynical, petty and self-serving, and it feels like our couldabeen Brave New Society has gone flat in the middle like a failed soufflé. My thinking, and Hers, was to WIN this bloody war by changing the balance of bigotry altogether. So ...Back to [b]The Pub[/b]. "Sit down, have a drink, relax ..." "Under the spreading Chestnut tree I sold you and you sold me ..." Dog Alfighty Eric Blair was a bloody prophet. Good Morning Lynnie. :) I'll go to bed soon maybe!

lyn

27/07/2013Good Morning Talk Turkey Thankyou TT you are wonderful to me. Rain or shine Wet or fine Lyn's Links reach us Right On Time! ♥ :)

lyn

27/07/2013Today’s Links Political Lies: ”Who Tells Them” by @saint13333 Undoubtedly in this election the issue of truth will emerge. It always does. We the voters are often left to decide who is and who is not telling the truth. Or who is telling more or less of it. If the truth is the first casualty of war then it certainly must be the same for election campaigns. http://theaimn.com/2013/07/26/political-lies-who-tells-them/ Coalition's change of position on school reforms fails to move states by @bkjabour The point I make is we are not going to add to the uncertainty," he said. "We're not going to undo done deals at the start of next year but we think that serious adult government does not operate the way this government has, which is basically to hold a gun to the head of the states and say, 'Sign up or else.'" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/26/coalition-states-schools-education-reforms The dangers of ‘Operation Sovereign Borders’ by @crazyjane13 The Coalition spent quite a bit of media time last week asserting that it would never ‘outsource’ processing of asylum seekers. That seems to have disappeared into the ether, as this new policy commits to using both Nauru and Manus Island, and to ‘ensure resettlement in Australia is not guaranteed’. Remember, http://consciencevote.com.au/2013/07/26/the-dangers-of-operation-sovereign-borders/ Who looks the best? by @MigloMT Tony Abbott, in my opinion looks rattled. He has just as much chance of winning the election as Rudd has, but leading into the election he simply hasn’t look prime minister material. He looks reactive, rather than proactive. For example, his latest border protection plan – the one with the silly name that currently escapes me – http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2013/07/26/who-looks-the-best/ Asylum seekers roundtable by @LarvatusProdeo The fourth function is “return, remove, resettle”. Would some journalist ask exactly where this returning and resettling will happen? With the military in charge. http://larvatusprodeo.net/archives/2013/07/asylum-seekers-roundtable/ The only border security we have left by @timdunlop Policies like John Howard's Pacific "solution" and Kevin Rudd's PNG "solution" are immoral because they treat asylum seekers as means (pawns, scapegoats) rather than ends (individuals with their own rights), and we are right be concerned about the wretched of the earth http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-25/dunlop-the-only-border-security-we-have-left Joe Hockey gets under the skin of Stephen Koukoulas: Tweet of the day by Property Observer Joe Hockey is getting under the skin of economist Stephen Koukoulas, who has tweeted to his more than 10,000 followers his annoyance at those who slam economic forecasts and projections, calling them "hypocrites" for not making their own forecasts http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/economy/joe-hockey-gets-under-the-skin-of-stephen-koukoulas-tweet-of-the-day Abbott plan riles Defence chief by Nick Butterly and Andrew Probyn In a rare move, Chief of Defence David Hurley issued a statement defending the current chain of command in response to the coalition saying it would appoint a "three-star" general to oversee efforts to stop the boats. Privately, senior coalition MPs were distancing themselves last night from Mr Abbott's plan while complaining the policy was not put to shadow cabinet. http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/18153491/abbott-plan-riles-defence-chief/ Overpopulation drives boats by @independentaus A new United Nations report says the number displaced people grew by 2.7 million in 2012 alone, while total global population grew by around 80 million. India for example, grows annually by the total population of Australia. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/overpopulation-drives-boats/ I want deaths at Sea to Stop by @CraigEmersonMP The goal of the Government’s agreement with PNG is not to resettle asylum seekers in PNG; it’s to stop the deaths at sea. It’s the same goal as that of the Malaysian arrangement that the Coalition and the Greens opposed in the Parliament, purportedly on compassionate grounds. http://thehoopla.com.au/deaths-sea-stop/ Abbott's Turn Back The Boats Policy OR The Boat Phone Lives! by @no_filter_Yamba Guess which documents the High Court of Australia is likely to take notice of if an Abbott-led government tried to implement this plan to position Abbott as de facto head of the armed forces and a citizen made an application to the court? http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/abbotts-turn-back-boats-policy-or-boat.html Our wealth has only grown since the carbon tax by @TheKouk Mr Abbott also noted that "every time you buy an apple, buy a banana, you pay under Julia Gillard's carbon tax". The recently released inflation data shows fruit prices rose 0.2 per cent in the year to the June quarter 2013, which means that the price of a kilo of apples or bananas has risen by around 1 cent over the past year. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-26/koukoulas-our-wealth-has-only-grown-since-the-carbon-tax Money Maker – Craig Thomsons Fundraiser by @madwixxy The Daily Telegraph stated 20, the Sydney Morning Herald said 30, but the important number last night was 50, or actually 50,000 to be precise. http://wixxyleaks.com/2013/07/26/money-maker-craig-thomsons-fundraiser/ Latest LEMONs – (Liberal Endless Mantra Of NO) by @otiose94 Abbott’s NBN spokesthing Malcolm Turnbull wants to Charge you ‘thousands’ for Superfast Internet http://otiose94.wordpress.com/ More Coalition Goalpost Shifting by @mwyres Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey is also playing outside the accepted playing field, moving away from the accepted methods of costing policies before an election: http://michaelwyres.com/2013/07/more-coalition-goalpost-shifting/ Another Coalition Member Caught Lying Over NBN by @mwyres Given that the small towns that Ley is worried about will have exactly the same result from the NBN under either plan, her assertion that small towns with an exchange can only be upgraded to fibre under the Coalition plan is patently false. http://michaelwyres.com/2013/07/another-coalition-member-caught-lying-over-nbn/ Turnbull: learn from international NBN examples by By Joshua Becker "Part of the problem is that that ABC has resolutely refused, despite my public pleas, to make any effort to report what is going on in the rest of the world," he said. http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2013/07/26/3812016.htm Today’s Front Pages Australian Newspaper Front Pages for 27 July 2013 http://www.thepaperboy.com/australia/front-pages.cfm News headlines http://www.hotheadlines.com.au/

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27/07/2013LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

nasking

27/07/2013 I FEEL FOR ANY GOVERNMENT TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING BY THE PEOPLE BECAUSE WE HAVE A GLOBAL SYSTEM THAT IS DYSFUNCTIONAL AND INCONSISTENT WHEN IT COMES TO TAXATION, TRADE, MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE, HYGEINE, REGULATIONS, COMMUNICATION, DEALING WITH CLIMATE CHANGE AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS, NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION, MOVEMENT OF WEAPONS, AID TO ASSIST STRUGGLING NATIONS, POLITICAL SYSTEMS ETC... THIS PERMITS SOME WELL-OFF COMPANIES AND INDIVIDUALS TO NOT ONLY PARK THEIR MONEY AND SOME ASSETS IN PLACES WHERE THEY CAN NOT ONLY AVOID APPROPRIATE CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE COMMON GOOD...BUT ALSO CONTINUE TO BENEFIT FROM THE MISERY OF OTHERS...WHILST USING THEIR POWER TO VIA MEDIA AND ADVERTISING AND POLITICAL INFLUENCE TO PROTECT THEIR OWN INTERESTS...INCLUDING PAYING FOR SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH THAT MUDDLES RESULTS AND UNDERMINES EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH DEMONSTRATING THAT CERTAIN PRODUCTS AND LIFESTYLES HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF NEGATIVE IMPACT THAT NEED REMEDYING AND SO ON. THIS PERMITS CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS TO OWN SHARES IN VARIOUS COMPANIES THAT BENEFIT NOT ONLY FROM THE SALE OF POTENTIALLY HEALTH UNDERMINING PRODUCTS...BUT ALSO PROFITING FROM THE PRODUCTS THAT ARE USED TO DEAL WITH CHRONIC AND ACUTE ILLNESS CONDITIONS...WHILST AVOIDING PAYING APPROPRIATE TAXES TO A SYSTEM THAT OFT HAS TO PICK UP THE PIECES. GLOBALISATION IS AN INEVITABLE PART OF HUMANS USING COMMUNICATION AND TRANSPORT AND TRADE AND AID,SHARING TO REACH OUT TO OTHERS...EXCHANGE CULTURES AND EXPLORE...FIND SPACE...IMPROVE THEIR SENSE OF HAPPINESS, PROSPERITY ETC... SO IN SUCH AN INTERCONNECTED SYSTEM THAT SEES THE RICH FEW BEING ABLE TO USE THIS GLOBAL NETWORK TO THEIR ADVANTAGE WHILST THE REST ARE ARE ONLY GAINING A SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF ADVANTAGE...DOES IT NOT MAKE SENSE TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE A MORE LEVEL COMPETITIVE PLAYING FIELD?... AND WE SEE MORE CONSISTENCY IN TAXATION AND REGULATORY PRACTICES ACROSS THE GLOBE. HOW CAN A SINGLE GOVERNMENT BE EXPECTED TO COME UP WITH A FUNCTIONAL TAXATION SYSTEM WORKING FOR THE COMMON GOOD...OR EVEN AN ASYLUM SEEKER SOLUTION...WHEN WE HAVE SUCH A DYSFUNCTIONAL GLOBAL SYSTEM THAT THROWS TOO MANY SPANNERS IN THE WORK...IS TOO INCONSISTENT...AND IS CONSTANTLY UNDERMINED BY THE INFLUENCE OF THE PRIVILEGED FEW? N'

nasking

27/07/2013 APOLOGIES...SHOULD HAVE READ LIKE THIS: I FEEL FOR ANY GOVERNMENT TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING BY THE PEOPLE BECAUSE WE HAVE A GLOBAL SYSTEM THAT IS DYSFUNCTIONAL AND INCONSISTENT WHEN IT COMES TO TAXATION, TRADE, MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE, HYGEINE, REGULATIONS, COMMUNICATION, DEALING WITH CLIMATE CHANGE AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS, NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION, MOVEMENT OF WEAPONS, AID TO ASSIST STRUGGLING NATIONS, POLITICAL SYSTEMS ETC... THIS PERMITS SOME WELL-OFF COMPANIES AND INDIVIDUALS TO NOT ONLY PARK THEIR MONEY AND SOME ASSETS IN PLACES WHERE THEY NOT ONLY AVOID APPROPRIATE CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE COMMON GOOD...BUT ALSO CONTINUE TO BENEFIT FROM THE MISERY OF OTHERS...WHILST USING THEIR POWER VIA MEDIA AND ADVERTISING AND POLITICAL INFLUENCE TO PROTECT THEIR OWN INTERESTS...INCLUDING PAYING FOR SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH THAT MUDDLES RESULTS AND UNDERMINES EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH THAT DEMONSTRATES CERTAIN PRODUCTS AND LIFESTYLES HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF NEGATIVE IMPACT THAT NEED REMEDYING AND SO ON. THIS INCONSISTENT GLOBAL STRUCTURE PERMITS CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS TO OWN SHARES IN VARIOUS COMPANIES THAT BENEFIT NOT ONLY FROM THE SALE OF POTENTIALLY HEALTH UNDERMINING PRODUCTS...BUT ALSO ENABLES THEM TO PROFIT FROM THE PRODUCTS THAT ARE USED TO DEAL WITH CHRONIC AND ACUTE ILLNESS-RELATED CONDITIONS...WHILST AVOIDING PAYING APPROPRIATE TAXES TO A SYSTEM THAT OFT HAS TO PICK UP THE PIECES. GLOBALISATION IS AN INEVITABLE PART OF HUMANS USING COMMUNICATION AND TRANSPORT AND TRADE AND AID TO REACH OUT TO OTHERS...EXCHANGE CULTURES AND EXPLORE...FIND SPACE...IMPROVE THEIR SENSE OF HAPPINESS, PROSPERITY ETC... SO IN SUCH AN INTERCONNECTED SYSTEM THAT SEES THE RICH FEW BEING ABLE TO USE THIS GLOBAL NETWORK TO THEIR ADVANTAGE WHILST THE REST ARE ONLY GAINING A SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF ADVANTAGE...DOES IT NOT MAKE SENSE TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE A MORE LEVEL COMPETITIVE PLAYING FIELD?... AND SEE MORE CONSISTENCY IN TAXATION AND REGULATORY PRACTICES ACROSS THE GLOBE? HOW CAN A SINGLE GOVERNMENT BE EXPECTED TO COME UP WITH A FUNCTIONAL TAXATION SYSTEM WORKING FOR THE COMMON GOOD...OR EVEN AN ASYLUM SEEKER SOLUTION...WHEN WE HAVE SUCH A DYSFUNCTIONAL GLOBAL SYSTEM THAT THROWS TOO MANY SPANNERS IN THE WORKS...IS TOO INCONSISTENT...AND IS CONSTANTLY UNDERMINED BY THE INFLUENCE OF THE PRIVILEGED FEW? N'

jaycee

27/07/2013Talk Turkey. Your loyalty to the 'cause' is respectful..but your faithfulness to the past-leader of that cause is endearing and honourable....an honour the right-wing could not possibly hope to understand. I share some of that feeling of loss, but not, I feel, to the depths of your temperament. It reminded me of a poem by Pushkin that I held dear to my heart back when I was a younger man and adored a certain lady then...I was tempted to send it to her, but the time and circumstance was not conducive to such, so the moment passed by..as such moments do...and then the years... I pass it on to you, not as the poem of passion as I felt in those young,reckless years, but rather as a poem of reflection, a metaphor, for what might have been for many, many of us...alas! *** I loved you, and that love, to die refusing. May still - who knows! - be smouldering in my breast. Pray, be not pained - believe me, of my choosing I'd never have you troubled nor yet distressed. I loved you mutely, hoplessly and truly, With shy yet feverent tenderness aglow; Mine was a jealous passion and unruly... May heaven grant another loves you so! Alexander Pushkin.

TalkTurkey

27/07/2013Cripes Jaycee! Pushkin! Gee! I'll be jiggered! Never figured He'd say that to me! :) Dam it's sort of true though, but I don't just mean for me, I mean for all the people who really think *J*U*L*I*A*s special, but yes I'm one. My political heroes at the time have been: Don Dunstan ...Hunted from office by scandalmongering Gough Whitlam ... Hunted from office by skulduggery Paul Keating ... Hunted from office by 'arrogance' and *J*U*L*I*A* ! Hunted from office by Media, Mega-Rich, Mindless Morons and most of all Rudd! Nothing I can say about Rudd is going to change anyone's vote for nor against. The Proles love him, a bit the way some love cats. They have fond ideas - 'fond' in the 'gone silly' sense - of the way they think cats love them, how the cats think they're human, all that crap. It's false consciousness, and they inter-reinforce that by circle-stroking other catophants. Cats care not a whit for any given human. They're cats. Cats care only for themselves, they are ever on the make. They scrub up pretty, they have smarm down to a fine art, but in the dark they are lethal. And they can bide their time. So it is with Rudd. With what we now know about his activities over the last three years, he might in many other lands be charged with sedition and conspiracy and treason, he might even justifiably find himself before a firing-squad for his perfidy, but ah, let it pass. I'll vote for the bastard because I sure am't going to vote for Abborrrtt, and I want this last Government's legion achievements not to be lost. And for *J*U*L*I*A*, I hope the personal freedom compensates a lot for the shattered shared dream.

TalkTurkey

27/07/2013O the Love that Religion vouchsafes us! Listen to this, it's a prank but it is poignant.. Thanks to BAZZA_AUSTRALIA ‏@Barry_Australia on Twitter who said Gosh, and they say Aussies are racist. Must be okay for everyone else... One of my all time favorite pranks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKAz0a77Fm0 …

Catching up

27/07/2013So Mr. Abbott is going to by pass the treasury for information. They are relying on private and the states for facts. That is I think, they believe that Costello and Grenier are more reliable. I say this, as the Coalition states themselves by pass their treasuries. It is time for Labor to drop the quest for surpluses, no matter the cost, and come out and say, they are all for responsible handling of the economy, and surpluses will take care of themselves. It is time for any government, I believe world wide, to find ways of increasing revenues, to provide the infrastructures that are necessary for the economy to grow. Yes, one much always be careful of wasteful spending, as that only takes from the things that are essential for a civil and prosperous society. Cutting for cutting sakes, only leads to bigger, not less deficits. We are a wealthy country, that can manage the so call debt we have. We also need to to able to tell the difference between debt and investment. Much of Labor's spending, is in the investment camp. That is money spent, to ensure productivity grows. During the Howard years, it was investment spending where most of the cuts were made. That and transferring income from the lowest earners in society, to those at the top. To prosper, a civil society requires good health facilities, that all can afford. Good education and training, to ensure we have the skills for new technology and industry. Good communications, which in this century means the best broadband available, for now and the rest of the century. We also need to lower carbon emissions, in the cheapest and most efficient manner, to ensure that we bring some change in global warming. It appears Australia has already had some success, but much more needs to be done. Needs to be done now, not far off into the future. What I see as a big p-roblem coming up, that is not being address now, is affordable housing for all. Giving tax and other erebates does not help. only pushes up the cost of buying and renting. What needs to happen, is for the housing stock to grow, and grow fast. I see the only way this can occur, is for governments to be involved. Work well post world war 2. Especially I believe, where there was available cheap finance, to buy the homes. This is the only way to take pressure off. That is to increase housing stock. There must be many modern ways of doing it, as one does not want to go back to the Mt. Druitt and like housing estates. Before that, we had the housing provided, in many suburbs on a smaller scale, that appeared to work. These early homes were quickly sold, and merged into the suburbs around them. As for the AS, do not see why that should be a big factor in the upcoming elections. We are not in danger of being invaded, and have been able to deal with much bigger problems in the past. All that needs to be done, is for politics to be taken out of the issue. As for the economy, no matter how much Hockey and his ilk talk it down, we are still traveling well. Still have bankers and experts from overseas, saying how well we are doing. Of course it is not perfect, economies never and cannot be perfect, as they always respond to what is happening elsewhere. There are problems arising that need to be addressed. They are not what Abbott is talking about. If one cannot identify problems. how can they fix them? Sorry, but I feel better having my rant. I just feel that we need to identify what really needs to be done, and ignore what the pollies want us to think. Not interested in a personality contest. Our future is too important, to dwell on whether we like one or the other. Does not matter. It is what they are offering, that counts.

jaycee

27/07/2013Ahh!..yes..Don Dunstan...I liked Dunstan...he had that same quality that both Whitlam and Gillard share..that casual way of dismissing low wit and boors with but a wave of the hand...they are and always will be but dirt beneath their feet. I doubt Pushkin had YOU specifically in mind, TT. but then good..very good poetry crosses both time and interpretation and dominates by its' quality and honesty. But on cats...: I believe you misunderstand the attraction...sure, they have their own agendas, their own master...their own petulant ways and cruel cunning...but they do know how to please and they do know when to please......and for myself, being a hetro male, I am a sucker for the puurrrrr!....I like to imagine SOME affiliation !! ?? :)

Catching up

27/07/2013Yes, Nasking, you are correct, we live in a global system, whether we like it or not. This is true when it comes to the economy, taxation and even work today. We have Hockey attacking Treasury because predictions they make, are never on target. Ignoring the fact, that this can never occur. One can only make predictions on what occurs today, withing the global economy. There is no way, one can know what will be happening in a week, let alone six months. The treasury predictions must always carry the caveat, that this will occur, if everything stays the same as it is now. Only takes one figure to move, for the whole prediction to be Good governance demands that the figures are revise regularly, and the government makes the necessary change, to get were they are heading. Labor has done this. Yes, heading for a surplus, until the figures said this was unachievable, that further cuts, would lead to a bigger deficit, not less. Not sure were we are now, but I am suspicious of the new drive for surplus, not sure if it is achievable at this time. I suspect, we have a good but fragile economy. One that needs careful nursing, to get us to being a big player in the new Asian century. I have seen no evidence that the Coalition even see what the upcoming problems are, let alone have any answers. Would feel better, if they resisted on talking down the economy and destroying Labor, and start addressing they reality we live in.

TalkTurkey

27/07/2013Someone said on Twitter that this long article was only going to be available for 24 hours. Don't know why. It starts interestingly anyway. http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2013/august/1375315200/chloe-hooper/road-julia-gillard

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27/07/2013I read it all the way through. It is definitely worth the time. At least it is fact.

Ken

27/07/2013TT thanks for the link to "The Monthly" article. I knew it was about but had trouble accessing it when I tried this morning. With your link, no probems, and it was worth reading. Catching up Treasury make "projections" and "forecasts". Projections are usually about known government expenditure into future years (the "out years")e.g. a program costing $1 billion a year will be projected out over the next four years. "Forecasts" will often, but not always relate to revenue and the performance of the economy generally. Such forecasts require a number of assumptions to be made - these are usually spelled out in the fine print: e.g. the Treasury may assume that company profits will grow 3.5% in the coming year and that obviously leads an "x" increase in company tax revenue for the government. But, as you say, in our globalised world, circumstances can change quickly and if company profits grow by only 2% on average overall, the government has less income. Treasury is constantly monitoring these sorts of factors but, I think, only does formal revisions every three months or so - but that doesn't mean they aren't briefing the government on changing circumstances. Ministers are usually well aware of these changes before they are publicly announced - that's why governments are generally able to respond so quickly to such changes - they;ve already had the time for Departments to come up with savings. Hockey as an ex-Minister knows this full well. He is simply selling a load of crock to the public who don't necessarily understand how the system works. With that in mind, I think the real purpose of his outburst is to soften the way for LNP announcements which, on the basis of his statements, are not likely to stand up to much genuine scrutiny.

nasking

27/07/2013 [b]We have Hockey attacking Treasury because predictions they make, are never on target. Ignoring the fact, that this can never occur. One can only make predictions on what occurs today, withing the global economy. There is no way, one can know what will be happening in a week, let alone six months. The treasury predictions must always carry the caveat, that this will occur, if everything stays the same as it is now. Only takes one figure to move, for the whole prediction to be [/b] CU, indeed. Free trade agreements and ordering products online have had a huge impact on budgets...the growth of China...the GFC...instability in Europe...the need to deal with climate change which has changed the way we get energy...produce and invest in energy...the impact of Superannuation and the access more people have to volatile share markets...the growth of investment banks and private equity...use of high speed sharemarket computer programs...24 hour news and social networking.... to name but a few of the variables. The Coalition have their head in the sand if they think they can adequately make finance-related predictions in this volatile global environment... this is why we need more mature participants who can ensure we move towards a more unified, regulated global system that provides for more certainty...and efficiency of tax collection. Until then, expect a variety of outcomes when it comes to budget predictions and so on. N'

Jason

27/07/2013For those who have a strong stomach at 9am on a Sunday, Barry Cassidy will be trying to interview Scott Morrison. The panel is Malcolm Farr Dennis Atkins and Phil Coorey

jane

27/07/2013CU @12.06pm, I think the Liars willfully ignore the facts about Treasury forecasts. Anyone with a single functioning brain cell knows that any forecast is made with the information available at the time and unless you're clairvoyant, you can only make an educated guess as to what may happen 6 months or more down the track. I find the Liars constant barrage of dishonest criticism and undermining of Treasury very disturbing. It is a sure indication of their recklessness and lack of interest in anything but grabbing power.

nasking

27/07/2013 MAL, THAT LOT ARE ENABLED BY RUPERT MURDOCH AND HIS GRANDIOSE MOB OF BOOZERS...SO EXPECT NO LESS. N'

nasking

27/07/2013 [b]I find the Liars constant barrage of dishonest criticism and undermining of Treasury very disturbing.[/b] JANE, MURDOCH'S MOB IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE COCK JOCKS HAVE DEMONSTRATED FOR YONKS THEY BELIEVE THE RULES DON'T APPLY TO THEM...THEY ACT LIKE MIDDLE AGES' TYRANTS WITH AN OCCASIONAL VENEER OF THE WELL-SPOKEN THIEF COME TO SHAG YER PARTNER IN THE NIGHT AND STEAL YER HORSES... IS IT ANY WONDER ABBOTT AND CO. THINK THEY CAN SAY AND DO ANYTHING WHEN THEY ARE BACKED BY AN EMPIRE OF LAWLESSNESS WITH AN AIR OF SUPERIORITY? I IMAGINE THE OLD MAN SITS PERCHED ON THE INTERNET OBSERVING THE CYBER-LANDSCAPE LIKE AN OMNISCIENT GOD...THO HE BLEEDS...BEING IN ACTUALITY MORTAL...HE FEIGNS OTHERWISE...LEST HIS BLOODTHIRSTY TROOPS AND FAMILY TURN ON HIM...AND FEED. MUST BE A WONDERFUL LIFE. AND THE POINT OF IT? N'

TalkTurkey

28/07/2013Good morning Comrades, I wake up this morning to hear that ALP is AHEAD in da POLLS! Heh heh Darryl Melham says: ... 2-horse race ... And I'd rather be on OUR horse! It's lovely to see the panic in the Abborrrttian Stables!

Catching up

28/07/2013It appears that the new poll supports what internal polling for both parties is saying.

Catching up

28/07/2013Surprising is that it has become a two horse race. One would think, that after the last three years, and the new parties emerging, there would be more in the race. Not too sure what the main policy winner will be. I suspect not many are interested in AS. What I have heard, from some that have lesser interest in politics, that they can see little wrong with the PNG scheme. Suspect that Morrison is just too hard to explain, once one gets past the word army.

Catching up

28/07/2013Meet the Press. Tony Abbott has kept his power dry. Ha Ha Michael Kroger.

Catching up

28/07/2013Listening to Kroger, on MTP, Rudd was a failure on Bolt. Could not answer any question. Then most questions that Bolt asks, are unanswerable, in MHO. Will watch Bolt, and all of MTP, on Ch 10, later, when I feel a little stronger. Not ready to face either yet. One has to put up with Vanstone as well. I am finding that hard to do lately.

42 long

28/07/2013Kroger is one of their extreme dogmatists . Doesn't believe in doing ANYTHING about climate change. He is among friends with the LieNP mob as most of the deniers are in the Lieberal ranks, so how can you believe anything they say on climate change? They indulge in selective perception also. Read into anything, what you want to.

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28/07/2013Folks I have just now posted: [i]Have a go at these questions about asylum seekers[/i]. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2013/07/28/Have-a-go-at-these-questions-about-asylum-seekers.aspx

Catching up

28/07/2013Notice the sitting in the Rudd interview with Rudd. I suspect that Rudd might have just got hos message over.

Catching up

28/07/2013I believe that Rudd got the right answers over. Bolt's questions mean little.

Catching up

28/07/2013Yes, Bolt big an in the fore front, Rudd smaller and in the back ground. I believe that Rudd might have just won this one.

Catching up

28/07/2013I do not believe that Bolt won anything.

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28/07/2013TT Rather than Labor supporters getting too excited about the recent polls and the [i]Galaxy Poll[/i] today, it is much more satisfying for them to contemplate the anxiety, perhaps even panic in Coalition ranks when they see Labor's primary vote at 40%, TPP 50:50, and Labor ranked higher than the Coalition in the 'best to handle the asylum-seeker issue': 40:38%
What does two plus 1 equal?