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Feral Skeleton

28/10/2011AcerbicC., The only addition I would have made to this amazingly well-crafted and polished piece of Comedy Gold, is to have had Abbott the Joker bouncing off the walls before he high tales it out of the room, 'press conference style'. I just get that impression of him these days. :)

Jason

28/10/2011AC, I don't know how you do it week after week but I doffs me hat(cap)to you!

Feral Skeleton

28/10/2011Just a bit of cross-posting from the last blog because I had just had my say about Julian Assange, and then the new blog went up :( [quote]I guess you may not remember this, however, I was suss on Julian Assange right from the get-go. I smelt a rat and his rodentatious nature was confirmed when I, too, sat back and waited and waited and waited, for him to realease the sort of material which any good seaker of 'the truth' would want to finds out from an organisation such as Wikileaks. It appears we were titillated with the vision of the American's attack on innocents on the ground, from up on high in a helicopter gunship, however, after that something seemed to go awry. I remember there was a mass defection from Wikileaks of those members of the team who said wtte that Wikileaks was no longer what they had originally signed up for. Basically, it had become a vehicle for Julian Assange's ego. Following that, a number of disturbing things occurred. Firstly, Wikileaks began releasing a welter of material that was essentially just warmed-over political gossip, of the type we have been decrying here forever and a day. You know, such as, which diplomat farts in polite company. Yawn. However, for an organisation who had received data from Private Bradley Manning, I would have thought that there would have been juicier info than that to come our way. Maybe even knowledge of a few war crimes comitted by the Americans in their theatres of war, maybe Condoleeza Rice speaking to Colin Powell via e-mail and saying that there never have been any, 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'. That sort of thing. Crickets. Which aroused my suspicions. Was there no covertly-obtained information about any conservative government anywhere in the world that had been passed on to Julian Assange? Strange. Not to mention the fact that, once notoriety had been achieved by Mr Assange, he used his newly-created global platform to start criticising Progressive Centre Left governments. One may say that he had a right to do this because of the ham-fisted attempts by Robert McClelland to put a cork in Wikileaks, legalistically. However, had it not occurred to Mr Assange that if there had been a Right Wing government in power federally in Australia at this time, heaven forbid, that they would have ruthlessly and clinically have conspired to have Mr Assange rendered unto, at the very least, the Swedish authorities who want him over the sexual assault charges, by conspiring with the Tory government of David Cameron to effect his silence. Not to mention that injunctions would have been slapped, under some very didgy laws, on all the media outlets who had supplies of Wikileaks information; Wikileaks Servers would have been confiscated for 'National Security' reasons, and Mr Assange would have been thrown into the same sort of hell-hole jail as Bradley Manning, most likely on trumped-up Treason charges. But no, Mr Assange has to go after the political parties that are actually for transparency when it comes to exposing things like Bush's Rendition of political prisoners like Mamdouh Habib and David Hicks from Australia. Among many, many others things that I thought we might finally find out about. Now, I don't know if Mr Assange realises this, but I wonder how he feels about having been co-opted and virtually neutralised by Britain's Establishment? The comfortable lifestyle that his supporters in Britain's demi monde have laid out for him certainly appears to have compromised his independant judgement, right down to sounding like a pompous ass and referring to himself as, "One" (pity there's not a finger down the throat emoticon for that), and falling for the Conservative's Cultural Warrior creed of 'Hate Speech=Free Speech', and you must defend it and us to the death. I would have expected a greater degree of intellectual discernment from 'One' who styles himself as one of the world's pre-eminent cultural iconoclasts. Instead, what we appear to have ended up with is just another Andrew Bolt. Someone who has seen a chance and taken it and betrayed whatever ethics they may have originally had in the process just so they could become what they originally despised. A member of a corrupt, amoral Conservative elite.[/quote][quote][/quote]

jane

29/10/2011Gold, AC. I especially like the constipated seagull. Any chance s/he could be persuaded to migrate with some family members and unload on The Choker, the Liars Party and cheerleaders like Anal Jones at stunts like the Convoy of Cretins and lycra infested photo-ops? I'd also really like to see Vampirella wearing a cloche of seagull shit at every public appearance and seagulls nesting in Bronnie's wig.

Casablanca

29/10/2011PatriciaWA Flattered that I played some small part in sparking another poem but all the glory goes to you for yet another very apt and witty offering. The pen is indeed mightier than the sword!

jane

29/10/2011Mind you, Casablanca, I wouldn't mind seeing Liealot run through with a well aimed Gillard sword.

Casablanca

29/10/2011One of our local freebies often has an article worth mentioning and it only occurred to me today to check for an online version and bingo there it was: http://citynews.com.au/2011/politics/federal-parliament/leadership-and-the-test-for-a-witch/ The title[b]Leadership and the test for a witch[/b]suggested that this was just another anti-Gillard ditch-the-witch meme but in fact it is supportive. The author, Michael Moore is a former Independent member and Minister in a Liberal Cabinet of our modest little parleyment in the ACT. [i]At a time when there are so many important issues being debated, the mainstream media seems obsessed with leadership speculation. There is a reason. Seasoned journalists, editors and their followers know that speculation also provides a catalyst for change. Instead of the media being an observer reporting the facts, the interest behind stories and the colour of the political landscape, they can become a key player. They can play a role in bringing about political change. Lord Acton suggested, in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887, “power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely”. It is a sobering reminder of the concerns for those currently seeking to investigate the media. Lord Acton’s next words might also provide an understanding of what has happened in the News Limited empire, particularly in the light of the phone hacking scandal in Great Britain: “Great men are almost always bad men.” The question is not whether the media should be free, but rather what are the appropriate constraints?[/i] Worth a read as we each finish our submissions on the media inquiry before the deadline on 31 October: http://www.newsstand.org.au/campaigns/free-and-fair/inquiry-submissions/make-your-submission

Casablanca

29/10/2011jane Agree. It would be nice to see Liealot run through by a well aimed Gillard sword. But first I want to see him [i]done slowly[/i] by PatriciaWA

Casablanca

29/10/2011TT I hope for his sake that Gina Rindlard didn't stomp on Prince Philip with stilettoes like the ones that she was teetering around on at the recent mining conference. [b]Prince Philip pokes fun at Gina Rinehart[/b] October 28, 2011 - 8:29AM Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/prince-philip-pokes-fun-at-gina-rinehart-20111028-1mmoz.html#ixzz1c5RXISTU

Casablanca

29/10/2011[b]Queen lines up with her people.[/b] Phillip Coorey October 29, 2011 Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/queen-lines-up-with-her-people-20111028-1moaq.html#ixzz1c5TxslRd ''I wish heads of government well in agreeing further reforms that respond boldly to the aspirations of today and that keep the Commonwealth fresh and fit for tomorrow,'' the Queen said. ''We should not forget that this is an association not only of governments but also of peoples.'' In her speech Ms Gillard pointed out that the Commonwealth was bound by values, not commerce or trade, and these values of peace, democracy, racial equality, the rule of law and social and economic progress should be ''freely embraced and consensually expressed''. ***** [b]Brian Loughnane has Grattan and Taylor on the Rudd leadership manoeuvring roster this week-end.[/b] [i]Rudd might have been disorganised in style of government, but he sure knows how to run a campaign - whether a campaign for office in 2007 or, as we're seeing now, a bid to get back the job from which he was unceremoniously ousted.[/i] Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/gillards-the-organised-one-but-rudd-grabs-chance-to-strut-20111027-1mm1b.html#ixzz1c5WNjmuO [b]Libs might be eager, but Labor cautious on Rudd[/b] October 29, 2011 Lenore Taylor [i]When Kevin Rudd was deposed the party’s primary vote stood at 35 per cent. Now it’s 29 per cent. Photo: Getty Images It's amazing how many experts there are on the subject of Kevin Rudd's plans to run for the Labor leadership again. In the Liberal Party alone there must be several dozen. According to their deep inside knowledge he wants the job before the US President, Barack Obama, arrives on November 16, which would leave him just two sitting days (next week) when both the caucus and the incumbent Prime Minister are in Canberra to stage his coup. ''Julia had the Queen but I want Barack,'' he is allegedly saying. To Liberals. To others he is apparently insisting he wants the job in time for the Labor conference in December. Obviously. All those worthy speeches and a barney over gay marriage. You wouldn't want to be sitting on the sidelines for that.[/i] Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/libs-might-be-eager-but-labor-cautious-on-rudd-20111028-1mnvi.html#ixzz1c5WxwzpH ******* [b]Wilkie's destructive gamble [/b] BY JEFF HOUSE 28 Oct, 2011 04:00 AM [i]It is important to remember that prior to the Prime Minister and Andrew Wilkie agreeing to terms, the Federal Government was already on course to reform poker machines. On the same day that Julia Gillard replaced Kevin Rudd, the Government released the Productivity Commission's final report into Gambling in Australia. Jenny Macklin and Nick Sherry issued a press release which stated: ''The first priority for the Australian Government will be to progress a nationally consistent pre-commitment model for electronic gaming machines''. It went on to say: ''The Australian Government is committed to a thorough process ... consulting closely with community groups, industry and relevant employee and employer groups on the Productivity Commission's findings''. At this point, there was a reasonable pathway identified to progress the Commission's work in a constructive and consultative fashion. Clubs publicly supported this approach and called it a ''victory for common sense''. And then Wilkie happened.[/i] http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/wilkies-destructive-gamble/2338993.aspx

TalkTurkey

29/10/2011Swordsfolks You have a little over 50 hours left to send a rocket . . . . Here's Avaaz's plea to us all: "Dear friends across Australia, Murdoch is working to discredit the media inquiry that we fought hard to win. We have just two days to flood the inquiry with public comments supporting media reform, and save this historic chance to clean up our media. Send your message now and forward to everyone: The media inquiry we fought hard to win is under threat -- Rupert Murdoch's newspapers are working to discredit and limit the investigation into his stranglehold on our media. But a flood of public comments from each of us will set an ambitious agenda and save the inquiry. Our media is broken. Murdoch owns 70% of Australia's newspapers and weak regulation lets him manipulate the news we read freely. This media inquiry is a once-in-a-generation chance to fix this and other problems with media independence -- it's why we campaigned tirelessly for months for this moment. One last push can stop Murdoch's attempt to weaken the investigation for good. But we only have two days to act. Send a personal message to the media inquiry and it will be entered into the public record -- pushing a wide agenda that includes Murdoch and his media monopoly. Then forward this message to everyone: http://www.avaaz.org/en/australia_media_inquiry/?vl Change is in the air -- Murdoch’s power in the UK has collapsed with the phone hacking scandal, and across Australia there is strong public support for reform. This is the opportunity we’ve been waiting for, and Murdoch knows it. His papers are working overtime to discredit voices that threaten his power, calling the inquiry the “first step to totalitarianism” and doing what they can to keep the expert panel’s purview as narrow as possible. But if enough of us speak out now, we can make sure the media inquiry makes recommendations to roll back the dangerous concentration of power crushing the diversity of our media. Avaaz members worked tirelessly to urge PM Gillard to go ahead with the inquiry. Now, a strong and far-reaching set of recommendations from the expert panel will create the political mandate for the government to save our media. These are within our grasp -- but only if they hear from us now. Send your message directly to the panel now, and forward widely: http://www.avaaz.org/en/australia_media_inquiry/?vl Earlier this year, Avaaz members helped win a media inquiry despite Murdoch’s stiff opposition. In the UK, we forced Murdoch to drop his bid for a complete takeover of British broadcaster BSkyB. We’ve been taking on battles no one thought we could win and reclaiming the media space for informed public debate. Together we can make this inquiry a defining victory for press freedom and democracy in Australia and around the world. With hope, Stephanie, Laura, Brant, Paul, Emma, Ari, Ricken, Milena and the whole Avaaz team More information: Official Independent Media Inquiry homepage (DBCDE): http://www.dbcde.gov.au/digital_economy/independent_media_inquiry Government flags wide-ranging media inquiry (ABC News): http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-13/media-inquiry-launched-in-australia/2897136 PM pressured over media inquiry (The Age): http://www.theage.com.au/national/pm-pressured-over-media-inquiry-20110817-1iy8d.html The Murdoch media game-changer (ABC News): http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2798930.html Support the Avaaz Community! We're entirely funded by donations and receive no money from governments or corporations. Our dedicated team ensures even the smallest contributions go a long way." [It would be no bad thing if people's submissions were also published [i]here [/i]. . . ]

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29/10/2011AC Your capacity to come up with such withering and amusing satire week after week is a joy to us all. Thank you. I like the Batwoman image for our PM, and hope the images in the first YouTube clip translate figuratively into political reality for her and us.

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29/10/2011Folks Yesterday was a red-letter day for me – I believe it was the first day that I neither saw Tiny Abbott on TV or heard him on ABC radio, leaving Julia Gillard to dominate the local political news – and wasn’t she impressive. I suppose the MSM found some fault with her, but to me she represented us stylishly and competently. After all the abuse heaped upon her and the denigration she has had to endure, she showed her true mettle on the international scene, hosting and chairing CHOGM with charm and proficiency. She made me feel proud.

debbiep

29/10/2011 AC Great to read whilst loudly listening , head bobbing, (& can't help dancing to), the Joker & the Thief Wolfmother :)

Michael

29/10/2011Peter slips one to Tony. You might have to go behind the paywall via the paste this link into Google method... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/peter-reith-raps-tony-abbott-over-qantas-row-as-julia-gillard-urged-not-to-intervene-in-dispute/story-e6frg95x-1226180030337 but if you do, you'll find an article that contains this paragraph about Peter Reith maintaining why the PM should NOT intervene in the Qantas disputes. 'Mr Reith added: "I understand that the short-term politics for the Coalition is to make Qantas the PM's problem but I find it rather strange to hear Tony Abbott say that Julia Gillard should step into the dispute. I thought Tony's position was that Julia is a hopeless negotiator and everything she touches turns to mud. So why would the opposition want the government involved? The answer seems to be that they do not otherwise have a policy response."' Imagine that? Someone reckoning that the Coalition under Shouldabeen has a "short-term politics" agenda to create issues that reflect negatively on the PM rather than focusing on how to solve those issues with alternative policy. This Peter Reith fellow, lucidly as the quoted paragraph reads, seems to be marooned in history!! Doesn't he understand, Coalition policy is 'slag the scrag'? Anything else is too hard.

Patricia WA

29/10/2011Batwoman! Brilliant AC! ROFL stuff! I'll try to think up an even remotely worthy PS to that! Casablanca, thanks for your compliment on [i]Royal Blush[/i] which I will copy and later store with my revised edition of it at http://polliepomes.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/royal-blush/ so it's there to reminisce over in my fading years! I'm trying to update my commentary on it, to give it a context, and I'm stuck trying to find a video clip to link to of the joint Cameron/Gillard presser where carbon pricing was discussed at some length. I have the official CHOGM transcript link, but surely it's of such significance it should be featured on ABC news somewhere. I can't find it anywhere. Is that somehow sinister, or my inept IT skills?

Feral Skeleton

29/10/2011For all of us who believe that News Ltd. are functionally unable to write a rational article about the PM and her government, you may be interested in this: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/party-games-if-pm-can-make-christmas/story-e6frerdf-1226180030687

psyclaw

29/10/2011TT Here's my note to the Media Inquiry. Cheers. [quote]To Australia's Independent Media Inquiry: I urge this Inquiry to take its gloves off and identify some teeth to keep the Australian media honest. That is all that is required to obviate the need for shows like Media watch. I demand such teeth to ensure that incidents like the Bolt court case, the recent Today Tonight story exposed by Media Watch (based 100% on falsehoods about the "great" life asylum seekers have here), and the "ARL/NFL have joined Clubs Australia to do adverts in the footy Finals" episode (also completely wrong, based 100% on falsehoods and exposed again by Media Watch) incur substantial penalties, including personal penalties. Reprehensible comments ("the PM and Mr Brown to sea in a chaff bag") broadcast by radio shock jocks are actually founded on deliberately building up of an emotional climate, which is created by liking and broadcasting day after day, many deliberate falsehoods. An honesty requirement and appropriate penalties would reduce such conduct. Many have and will scream that regulatory mechanisms such as this destroy free speech. It would not. It would only destroy media free speech which is deliberately untrue and blind Freddy can see that this would be a good thing. I demand also that the Inquiry examine anew the issue of media ownership regulations both across the media and within each medium. Blind Freddy can also see that some of the current concentrations of media ownership, notably by the Murdoch Group are well beyond the pale. Sincerely,[/quote]

psyclaw

29/10/2011Poor editing..I'll have to resednd. Para 3, line 3, word 7...."linking"Ezekiel uitsou

psyclaw

29/10/2011Really bad day! Typed Captcha words (Ezekiel uitsou) into text. Sorry for confusion

psyclaw

29/10/2011FS Thanks for the Courier link. Denis Atkin's article is a fair call. Of all the News writers, he's one of the few inclined to fair comment. His conduct on Insiders is usually fair too. I think he's hit the nail on the head. If Labor does zero more reform between now and 2013, their record for the 2010-2013 parliament would be second to none. Consolidating and quietly bedding down the NBN, ETS and MRRT should be the priority. Of course the National Disability Insurance is yet to come but surely Abbott won't make that controversial and partisan. (What a fool I am writing that!). Anyway I think that legislation will be a good winner for JG whatever Abbott says, and a magnificent winner to families ith children with a disability. However a bit more dust is still to be unsettled regarding the Migration policy.

Acerbic Conehead 2

29/10/2011FS, Yes, he’s a real joker, isn’t he? A number of commentators have said Tones’ fortunes are turning. About time, I reckon. Jason, Thank you for your kind remark. I suppose it comes down to the enjoyment I get from writing. We have a great cause going on here at [i]TPS[/i], so I’m only too glad to chip in. And thanks again for the info on the weekend’s political viewing. [i]Inciters [/i]looks like it may be bearable this Sunday with Laura and George on. Jane, Yes, Tones and his mob thought Nauru was an El Dorado for them. However, it has turned to quicksand instead. Couldn’t happen to a nicer crew. AA, Thank you, and it is my great pleasure to be associated with [i]The Political Sword[/i]. Ever since I first came across your writing, I have been a fan. Long may your wisdom and insightfulness continue! debbiep, I’m glad you enjoyed the piece and especially the [i]Wolfmother[/i] track. During my research, I read that some of the big Canadian ice-hockey and US grid-iron teams use “The Joker and the Thief” as an intro to pump up their fans. A tremendous accolade for an Aussie band. Michael, Thanks for that link to the Peter Reith article. Yes, there’s no fury like that of a lover scorned. PatriciaWA, Thank you for your link to the [i]Royal Blush[/i] poem. I’m looking forward to you doing something on [i]BATwoman[/i].

Casablanca

29/10/2011[b]THE AUSTROLLIAN via Google Paste and Search[/b] [b]Sick Labor marked down on health and education.[/b] Peter Van Onselen [i]Political support for Labor is sick and, at the moment, the issues are defining it, not the other way round. But according to Newspoll, even if Labor returned to its traditional stamping grounds, the public has already lost faith in its management credentials.[/i] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/sick-labor-marked-down-on-health-and-education/story-fn53lw5p-1226179852552 [b]ALP needs to get over itself on uranium to India.[/b] Paul Kelly [i]WITH Julia Gillard's foreign policy in the spotlight the issue cannot be ignored: how long will the obsolete and discredited ALP policy be allowed to prejudice Australia's ties with India, the emerging third biggest economy in the world? Gillard's theme these days is Australia's ability to adapt to the new Asian century, yet such claims are mocked by her government's incapacity to conduct foreign policy on merit. That the ALP national conference should continue to impair Australia's economic and strategic interests is intolerable. If this situation continues uncorrected at the December national conference then the Gillard government must be held to account for allowing Labor's antiquated obsessions about uranium and nuclear power to prevent Australia from following an India policy that its ministers know to be desirable and inevitable.[/i] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/alp-needs-to-get-over-itself-on-uranium-to-india/story-fnapmixa-1226179958459 [b]Greece's minor role in tragedy.[/b] George Megalogenis [i]AS the founders of Western civilisation, the Greeks surely had the first option to destroy it through indolence. Every Western nation recognises the Greek disease. The first symptom is an itch in the hip pocket. The government, respecting the will of the people, responds with the balm of middle-class welfare. No one asks the politicians to explain where the cash came from, because which voters think that far ahead? But when the third party in the transaction - the lender - wants their money back, they all go mad together.[/i] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/greeces-minor-role-in-tragedy/story-e6frg7ex-1226179948111 [b]Nothing in common.[/b] Greg Sheridan [i]THE Commonwealth is the comic-book Phantom of international organisations. It is the ghost that walks. Like some flickering afterlife of the long-dead British Empire, or the light our telescopes can discern travelling to us from a star that imploded billions of years ago, the Commonwealth is form without substance, emanation without source. [/i] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/nothing-in-common/story-fnapmixa-1226179953385

jane

29/10/2011Casablanca @1.08am, "setting the constraints". Three very important words wrt the media inquiry. I sent my submission a few days ago. I hope that a mountain of submissions in support of constraints on media bias have landed in their laps. Michael, well, well. Fancy Reith giving Liealot a serve. But knowing the slimy two faced git that is Reith, I'm unsure how to read this. You have to subject everything he says to the most exacting forensic investigation. But I guess it's still one in the eye for Liealot. Re Wilkie, I'd completely forgotten that the government was already considering legislation with Clubs Australia onside. In light of that, what prompted Wilkie to do the bull in a china shop impersonation? Perhaps he was afraid that pokies legislation had been put on the back burner? Even so, having a quiet word with the PM would surely have been the way to go to check progress. After all, the Greens and Xenophon in the Senate would ensure the legislation would be passed. AFAIK, the legislation hasn't even been written yet, so Clubs Australia seems to have jumped the gun as well. But in view of the article in the link, perhaps they think they've been double crossed. Time for the PM's negotiating skills to get some exercise, I think. She obviously needs to mollify Clubs Australia and Wilkie. Glad it's her and not me; I'd be inclined to knock their heads together and that's why she's PM and not me. FS, thanks for the link to the Denis Atkins article. A welcome well thought out realistic piece lacking the usual hysteria and hyperbole attached to anything News Ltd writes about the government or the PM. He still seems to have bought into the leadership crisis meme, but really just as a passing mention. I enjoyed reading his analysis; not a word about what Sir Liealot the Mendacious had to say. Pretty much what you'd expect from a good journo plying his/her craft. psyclaw, great submission. Covered all bases, I feel very envious of your wordsmithing.

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29/10/2011Fs That is a reasonable article from Dennis Atkins. He is usually fairly balanced - an uncommon trait in News Limited.

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29/10/2011PatriciaWA I liked your poem and your comment on [i]polliepomes[/i]. How true. Michael I couldn’t get beyond the first two paragraphs of the Reith article, but it was enough to indicate that Reith is out to put Abbott in his place when he puts a foot wrong. He won’t easily forget Abbott ratting on him over his vote for President of the Liberal Party. Reith has along memory and is nasty, even to his own.

Feral Skeleton

29/10/2011Amazing how Peter Hartcher can turn 4 impressionable(ie probably influenced by just the sort of thing he writes day in,day out), childrens' speech subjects into yet another, 'This government has lost the plot, is a failure, leadership challenge' piece ? http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/minority-government-is-on-the-nose-20111028-1moih.html Also, you may be interested to know that I have been taking the fight up to Phil Coorey directly about that dire piece he wrote the other day. He abused me directly and said I didn't know what I was talking about wrt Kevin Rudd's 'silence' on Pokies Pre Commitment action and how that played into Rudd's nascent leadership ambitions. He said that because I'm not there on the ground, like he is, I don't know what I'm talking about. I replied that he doesn't know who he's talking to and what I might know different to the Chinese Whispers from self-interested parties that he is quoting as fact and some sort of done deal as far as Kevin Rudd mounting a deadly stealth campaign to retake the ALP leadership from Julia Gillard. Apparently, Kevin Rudd has let it be known that he wants to be PM again before President Obama gets here on November 17. Which leaves a whole 2 parliamentary sitting days to effect his coup....Not to mention that just about everyone in the Labor Caucus still has Stockholm Syndrome from the last time he conned them into making him leader. Which is where the story ends, really. No matter the Rudd machinations and the media support, the public may even have warmed to him again(although I wouldn't even guarantee that outside of Queensland), a majority of the Labor Caucus don't want him back, for a variety of reasons. Not to mention the fact that the Problem Gambling policy is popular in the electorate, and anyone thinking they can start their new Prime Ministership off by backing down on another popularly-supported policy, has got to have rocks in their head. And they are definitely not the Rock Star in the community they believe themselves to be.

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29/10/2011Casablanca Thank you for the snippets from [i]The Oz[/i]. A few lines are enough to get the drift. They could not let Julia Gillard have her moment of credit at CHOGM without the pontifical Greg Sheridan getting on his hobbyhorse about the Commonwealth, Paul Kelly huffing and puffing about selling uranium to India, and the junior woodchuck PvO seemingly basing his piece on [i]Newspoll[/i] results, as if they are already set in stone. The only balanced piece will be Mega’s.

Feral Skeleton

29/10/2011Michael, Shouldn't that be 'slag the lying scrag'? Don't ever forget what a liar she is. However, do quickly forget what an admitted-liar Tony Abbott is, and John Howard was. :) Anyway, it was the Head of ACCI who finally got it right yesterday when he said(without thinking that he was torpedoing Tony Abbott's argument and 'killer' talking point), that it was The Greens fault for having caught the PM in a lie after the election by forcing a Carbon Tax upon her.

Feral Skeleton

29/10/2011psyclaw, Word is that the wrinkles have been ironed out of the MRRT and Wayne Swan is thus ready to present it to parliament in the next sitting. :) I'm just waiting to see how Tony Abbott, Mr 'Nonsense On Stilts' himself, will explain how he is going to take an extra 3% Super and 1% reduction in Company Tax, plus the Tripling of the Tax Free Threshold off the electorate. You know, it's articles such as Dennis Atkins'which give me hope that Mr Abbott's chickens are starting to come home to roost. There seems to me to be a bit of a schism developing in the Press Gallery atm between those who are the 'Early Adopters', so to speak, of the notion that this government is actually working it out as they go along and doing good things for the nation, cf with those, such as Phil Coorey and Peter Hartcher, who see themselves as 'Palace Intriguers', hiding behind the drapes in the Corridors of Power and seeking to exert some influence on precedings. It only just occurred to me how important it was to tip the balance in favour of those like Atkins, who are struggling manfully to break from the Press pack, as I listened to yet another day of Heraldic music and fawning commentary about QE2. I just thought to myself, even the recalcitrant malcontents in WA and Queensland, with more money than sense these days, could be made to see the light about Julia Gillard if she was treated like this by the media.

jane

29/10/2011FS, I'll bet Coorey is in a darkened room licking his wounds and softly moaning after his mauling by you. Are your claws still all nice and sharp? There's a few more w@nkers in the msm to be sorted. I really don't think Rudd hankers after the PMship these days. It's obvious that he revels in his role as Foreign Minister and that he's having an absolute ball doing the job. He's found his niche and has decorated it. I wonder if the British press has decided to give His Crassness the full treatment after he was found loitering around David Cameron's bedroom door, begging for an audience? I sincerely hope so. Why, in the name of *God, couldn't this moron have arranged a meeting weeks ago? It's not like CHOGM and its attendees has been a closely guarded secret. Just because Emperor Rupert has elevated him to demi-god status here, doesn't mean that the likes of David Cameron et al can't see him for the wanker that he is. If the press had uniformly behaved as Denis Atkins and Laura Tingle, we would have had decent commentary on both the government and the opposition. Liealot would have been forced to take the position of LOTO seriously and would have had his two bob's worth when the CEF legislation was being formed. But he would have been dispensed with long ago if the press had done their job properly and we might have an opposition worth its salt, not a mob of wreckers who quite clearly care only about their own aggrandisment and the country can go to hell! *Insert the deity of your choice

Feral Skeleton

29/10/2011jane, It appears Sir Reversalot has already decided to do a backflip with pike, even before the Opposition Caucus meeting this coming week in parliament, wherein he had confidently predicted that they would not be for turning on the tap of more Nanny Statism when it came to Poker Machine Problem Gambling reforms. Well, that is, if this story is to be believed: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/11042942/xenophon-and-abbott-to-talk-pokie-reform/ On the other hand, of course, Abbott may well just string Xenophon along for a few days, then go back to saying whatever he was before. You know I think that's why he has that funny gait. It's what comes from walking both sides of the street all the time. :D

Feral Skeleton

29/10/2011How exactly is the ALP ímpairing Australia's economic and strategic interests'??? The economy, under global circumstances, couldn't be in better shape, as for 'strategic interests', that's pretty much whatever you want to make of it, well, at least as far as Paul Kelly is concerned. I suppose, if by 'impairing economic interests' you mean not letting the resource rapists go full tilt without environmental or financial constraint, well, I guess so. However, that's not exactly how I want my government to operate. I also want them to impose an MRRT, thanks for nothing Xstrata, BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto.

jane

29/10/2011FS, Sir Reversalot. The laddie's not for turning. ROFLMAO Classic comedy gold.

2353

29/10/2011FS - well done for your "discussion" with Phillip Coorey. I do like the Rudd will take the leadership back in the next two sitting days story. Surely, sooner or later, most people that read crap like that will remember that they have been getting the same story for something like 18 months now. There are two possible outcomes here; either the writers of the continuing saga believe if they write it time and time again, sooner or later they will be correct; or two they write crap and need to be called out on it. Personally I suspect it's the second due to the continual reduction of newspaper circulation numbers and the desperate attempt to regain revenue by paywalling the NoNews title that is supposed to lead the agenda (with the intent that if you want to lead the agenda you pay through the nose!). I won't be giving my name and email address to Avaaz despite the need for a media enquiry - the reason being that they will "contact me in regard to other campaigns". I don't support any site that sends me marketing emails and don't have any "social networking" accounts. The benefit to me is (apart from the "need" to update social media accounts regularly) I don't get spammed often and spend less of my time deleting email that has no relevance to me.

nasking

29/10/2011So the people of Australia are fed up w/ a minority government eh? It's not working for them. There's been a "series of policy debacles". The Greens and independents are possibly to blame. Or factional powerbrokers. Issues pollies deal w/ are "marginal" & "irrelevant" or even "controversial" (holy smokes!!!). Furthermore, there's a "lack of policy ambition in post-Rudd Australia". They're concerned about their democracy. All according to Peter Hartcher by way of an opinion piece citing some school kids, an ANU poll & polster...and Rebecca Huntley, the director of the Ipsos Mackay Report: [b]Minority government is on the nose [/b] October 29, 2011 http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/minority-government-is-on-the-nose-20111028-1moih.html I guess Fairfax's Hartcher is gonna get the attention he seeks for this lame article...as Phil Coorey did w/ the dopey leadership one. Both can be superb writers & observers...but it seems they've decided to be attention-seeking cynics &/or sh*t stirrers Murdoch empire/shock jock style to help drag in the readers...rather than informing readers of the benefits to come w/ many of the government's policies...and their accomplishments. Material is cherry-picked, oft selected to present a negative case when it comes to PM Gillard & the government. Not surprising considerin' some of the garbage flowin' from Fairfax radio jocks since the leadership changes. Seems to me that too many of the corporate opinion writers these days are thinkin' more about pleasing the bosses and ensurin' job security rather than demonstrating the integrity they once had. I don't expect journos to become a propaganda machine for this or any other government, nor be a f/t apologist...but I do expect a fair weighing up of the facts. The fact is, democracy in Australia is now [i]robust[/i]...partly because we have a wider & more varied info pool to draw upon...thnx to the internet & ABC24...and the establishment of "issue"/citizen action groups such as GetUp... and due to the fact we have a "minority government"...wherein the views of progressive country folk (Independents), Greens, various labour & business groups are expressed by way of policy formation & implementation (the recent tax & job forums were extremely informative for those who took the time to hear them out)...a damn site more democratic than the Howard government's reckless & stubborn approach when it came to the Iraq War & the Regional Rorts Scheme. I fail to see how a one-party dominated state could be more "democratic". The idea that dealing w/ the plague of gambling in this country is too "controversial" or "irrelevant" goes to show how short-sighted, ignorant &/or full of crap some influential Australians are...one only needs to look at the damage that rampant gambling has caused...the underlying corruption & criminal activities related to this scourge in places such as America, China, Russia & Mexico to realise this is not a "minor" issue...but rather one of the top priorities in a world that is becoming more interconnected by the day...a world w/ only so much revenue at its disposal, that cannot afford to ignore the cost of damaging industries such as gambling, fast food, cigarettes & alcohol. It might sound boring...civil right's restricting...some usual suspects who benefit from sh*t stirring & who have few & weathervane principles might refer to "harm minimisation" as "nanny state" stuff or "political correctness"... but let's be honest here...we all know the serious damage these industries can cause when permitted to be rampant...when given the opportunity to use their big bucks to buy our so called "representatives"...and advertise just about everywhere bar yer innards. They bombard people w/ their messages...and undermine just about every attempt to get out the facts related to their deletarious effects on humanity. It's time we grew up...and faced the facts...and woke up to the propaganda machines & their sources of funding. As for gay marriage, it's about bloody time. It makes no sense to continually undermine the rights of citizens who contribute as much to society as the rest...to insult by way of neglect. The idea that it's okay for heteros to be married in a gamblers' hell such as Las Vegas...yet my mates in Sydney & Brissie are spurned because of the archaic & biased ramblings of religious folk interpreting confusing "riddle" texts or the pontificators of said texts, well it's enuff to make ya wonder why every critic of gay marriage doesn't dream of a time when they could huddle in a monastery drinking horrid ale & eating gross boiled meat, waiting for the moment the King's men rode passed, so they could return to poaching on the King's land - goin' by the hordes of Royal well-wishers that turned out for the non-elected, hereditary ruler the past week you'd think many Aussies would prefer them bygone days of undemocratic rule - and what a missed financial opportunity...gay marriage could help fill the revenue coffers & bring in further tourism in a country desperate for a few "visitors" these days. Again, certainly not a "minor" issue. So enuff of this bunkum Mr. Hartcher...how about doin' a bit of educatin' the cyncis & misinformed...you might actually be able to live w/ yerself down the road...and be doin' the public a favour. And earn some respect. It doesn't always have to come down to "follow the leader" and "give the middle finger & they will come". N'

nasking

29/10/2011BTW, thnx for the good larf AC. I needed it. Amazing how you come up w/ these oh so apt satirical pieces week after week. Well done!!! We received great news related to my partner. S' had two polyps removed from her colon during the medical procedures but both were benign...we are so relieved...and another test came back negative for cancer cells. We were finally able to sleep better last night, for the first time in weeks. Still more tests to go...and they will become a yearly/every second year trial due to Lynch Syndrome...but so far so good. My father is recovering from his heart procedure and was extremely optimistic on the phone (he lives in Canada)...seventy-five and still finding life a buzz...it was great chattin' to him. His arteries still need work...but at least he's bein' positive and pro-active. No black dog visitin' there. I'm so proud of him...he motivates/inspires me. As for our ill cat Midnight, the news is not as good...he has serious renal problems and is really struggling...w/ the help of the brill vet we're doin' what we can, hopin' he has a major infection rather than chronic kidney problems...he's a fighter...but we have to be realistic, this is an uphill battle...so our mood is not as uplifted as might be based on my wife's news. The yin & yang of existence. Can be very confusing. Anyway, fingers crossed. Many thnx to Ad, Talk Turkey, Jane & Gravel for yer supportive comments. They helped. Lastly, was watchin' a recordin' of Erin Burnett on [b]CNN[/b] today and noticed a promotion for [b]Talk Asia[/b]...apparently [b]PM Julia Gillard[/b] will be the guest. Worth checkin' out. I think it's on Wed pm here. N'

nasking

29/10/2011What an absolute jerk Alan Joyce of Qantas has turned out to be...you'd think a man from his background could sit down and negotiate w/ the average worker...but no, he's another who has forgotten his past and become yet another greedy corporate fascist. Shame on him. How many times have we seen thse CEOs & other corporate execs come up w/ plans to reduce the power of unions & workers...w/ the excuse they need to outsource, move offshore, amalgamate etc. in order to make the company more viable...yet they always seem to find heaps of money/bonuses for themselves having failed to make the company "profitable". Profitable for who? The FEW. Multi-national corporations expect allegiance & loyalty from regular staff...but they have no loyalty to their country of origin or staff, apart from the chosen few. They are oft opportunistic profiteers run by a few greedy major shareholders...using the usual suspect corporate media to do their hatchet work. Rich bullies...assisting rich bullies. Doin' over the workers...even customers. Everything that is wrong w/ our planet today. Joyce should GO now. BOOOO...no fair-go here...from Mr. moneybags...flown in from Ireland to do the corporate mongrels dirty work. Just like the American(s) who damaged Telstra. Shame on the enablers...Premiers in NSW & Victoria. N'

nasking

29/10/2011[quote]Also, you may be interested to know that I have been taking the fight up to Phil Coorey directly about that dire piece he wrote the other day. [/quote] Feral, good stuff. :) Two thumbs up. N'

Feral Skeleton

29/10/2011I'm in shock! I can see the Liberal Party's grubby fingerprints all over this unprecedented action, taken this afternoon, by Alan Joyce and Leigh Clifford, of Qantas, against their own workers. Also, attempting to bring the travelling public into the fight they are having with the Unions, who are simply seeking a Fair Day's Pay for a Fair Day's Work, in order, simply, to keep up with inflation, and job security for themselves. I smell a Liberal Rodent. I would not put it past Tony Abbott and the CDoalition to conspire with Qantas' management to bring about this action whilst CHOGM, and the heads of 54 countries from around the globe, were in Australia, and the PM was getting some clear air. Ad Astra, you wondered why you hadn't seen Tony Abbott in the media for the last 24 hours, and how strange it was. Well, I think you've now got the answer to your puzzlement. He was laying low, and, more than likely, planning this move with the West Australians, Joyce and Clifford. I say the West Australians because, as I have been watching this incident unfold this afternoon, the airwaves have immediately become infect6ed with obviously Right Wing Aviation 'Analysts', who have been spouting transparently scripted lines and attempting to frame this debate in Qantas Management's favour from the get-go. One of the most obviously self-serving lines coming from everyone from Alan Joyce all down the line to the WA Analysts(funny that, their coming from WA, which has an ever-expanding Fly In, Fly Out Mining Aviation Industry), is that "No one's job is secure in Australia these days." Well, that's news to me. I thought that was the whole point of ditching WorkChoices, that is, to bring back a degree of job security for the workers. As I said, this whole action has the odour of Eau de Liberal Party all over it. I imagine they were trying to lay a trap for the PM to get involved in the dispute earlier but she didn't take the bait immediately. Imagine how it would have looked if she had been negotiating in good faith and this stunt got pulled on her with all the attendant bovine excrement that would have been pre-prepared to go against her. And, even as I type this, guess whose ugly mug has conveniently popped up on ABC News 24. Yup, Peter 'Balaclavaed Vicous Dogs' Reith. Oh, and, surprise, surprise, he's calling the perfectly reasonable Industrial Action taken by the Qantas employees, "Guerilla Warfare against Qantas". If you want to know why the 99% are demonstarting against the 1% who want to rule the world, well now you have it in full technicolour before your very eyes. The 1% play dirty, they play mean, and they play to win. We cannot let them. Or the Road to Serfdom will be paved with workers' bones, blood, sweat and tears.

nasking

29/10/2011Another corporate dictator speaks: [quote]Mr Packer, who is executive chairman and owns 45.6 per cent of Crown Shares, today warned shareholders he would not let the board be dismantled. "If we receive a second strike again next year we will be left in the farcical position of the board being subject to a spill. If that happens I will use my votes to ensure all directors are voted back in immediately," he said at the annual meeting at Crown Casino in Melbourne.[/quote] http://www.smh.com.au/business/packer-vows-to-resist-shareholder-backlash-over-pay-20111027-1mlc8.html I always wondered why so many Australians live such a basic life compared to many overseas that also have rich resources... why there is so little industry/work diversity... why the governments have been forced in the past to get rid of free education & have little affordable healthcare in the dental, disability & mental health areas... but it's obvious now... there are a lotta greedy corporate people in this country who dominate...who suck the blood outa the rest of the country... and many of them have inherited money/assets...done stuff all to help the country... and we even have CEOs & private equity funds come in from overseas & rape & pillage...partially to weaken the workers' & unions' power & conditions. This country is bein' RAIDED by PREDATORS. The worst kind. The corporate aristocrat. BTW, I noticed Dick Smith conveniently didn't criticise Alan Joyce & the board for the pay rises...just criticised the unions & government. I know where I won't be shopping this Xmas. Furthermore, my stepmum & her hubby are comin' here from America at the end of next year...if a certain CEO is around I won't be recommendin' a certain airline...nor the one that the neo-Libs appear to be helpin' by this grotesque extraordinary move. Wasn't surprised to see the ultimate HATCHET MAN for the Libs on tele...Peter Reith. Another campaign to screw the workers & their protectors. It's happenin' across the world...via "austerity measures", "bailouts", free trade agreements, share market predators... the list goes on. Time for the protests against the fascist corporate system to FOCUS here in Australia on the morally bankrupt. Reveal THE CON...THE SCAM...THE THEFT...THE TREACHERY...THE BULLYING. N'

nasking

29/10/2011[quote] I smell a Liberal Rodent. I would not put it past Tony Abbott and the CDoalition to conspire with Qantas' management to bring about this action whilst CHOGM, and the heads of 54 countries from around the globe, were in Australia, and the PM was getting some clear air.[/quote] Of course Feral...they couldn't allow the PM to get a bounce off CHOGM. No way no how. It goes to show what DESPERATE WRECKERS this lot of Opposition & their corporate allies are... no different than the Tea Party Republicans & their corporate backers who have taken America to the brink of economic destruction... a foul stench emanates from these greedy fcks. Lunatics...pumped up by 4 decades of conning the public. Pulling the rug outa THE MANY...to benefit THE FEW... after years & years of "Be more productive!"..."Be more efficient"...blaaah blaaah blaaah. Ripoff artists. Snakeoil salesman. This is a good reason for governments to takeover the airlines & to make them clean & green...then sell them... and build fast trains... N'

Feral Skeleton

29/10/2011Nas, It's no surprise Peter Reith is all over this action by Qantas' Management like the Industrial Relations scumbag that he is. But, oh no, try and force some accountability out of the porcine James Packer and his Board and it is just not on. One law for them, another for us. And, if they don't like the law of the land, they'll flout it. My grandfather was without work for over a year in 1929 as he fought for better pay and conditions for Merchant Seamen, the strike which eventually led to the downfall of the Conservative government of Stanley Bruce. He was supported by my grandmother, who went out to work full-time in the Nestle Chocolate Factory, on the production line. Quite an unusual occurrence in those days, pre World War 2. All the men were also supported by the Irish-Australian community, who made sure they and their families were all fed, and had a roof over their heads for the duration of the strike. Which is what the capitalists cannot counteract. Solidarity. Although they have had a decades-long project to atomise and instil fear into the workforce, especially by attempting to smash the Unions. This cannot be allowed to succeed. I'll be doing all I can to make sure they don't win this battle they have pulled on, that's for sure. Till my dying breath. What a damn hide Dick Smith has got, and didn't he show his true colours tonight on ABC24, when he said that because 80% of travellers have voted with their wallets for cheaper airlines that that means, therefore, the end of decent pay and conditions for Australian workers on Qantas should now be a given, and they should accept Asian-level pay and conditions. Well, the workers will accept Asian-level pay and conditions when the bosses do too. Also, the way he blithely stated that he got his aeroplanes serviced in Dubai by cheaply-paid Phillipinos, so that means Australian workers only deserved the same rate of pay now in Australia. So, Nas, like you, I will never be purchasing any electrical item from any store with his name on the door again. Even if he no longer owns them.

Feral Skeleton

29/10/2011Has everyone fallen off the edge of the Earth tonight? Or, are they grounded at an airport? :)

Jaeger

29/10/2011Unfortunately, I'm flying not flying with JoyceAir this weekend, so being stranded isn't really an option - bugger. Been there (Perth), done that in 2001; I didn't mind except for the loss of FF points - maybe I should cash them in this time, just in case?

Patricia WA

30/10/2011Hello everyone! I've come in via a side door - through Archives since you seem to have been down since late yesterday arvo. I tried again and again up till midnight. Same this morning. Then I thought AC might already have archived [i]Batwoman,[/i] so I pressed [b]Archives [/b]- and Bingo! FS - had you kept you screen open till late last night? And Nasking? Jaeger too perhaps?

Patricia WA

30/10/2011I feel a bit like a lone passenger stranded at a Qantas counter in the early hours! Is there anyone out there? Seriously this Qantas thing has me feeling sick. Much like I did 11/11/75 - the worst birthday I can recall. What happens in Parliament if somehow 'by chance' many Coalition MPs are already in Canberra and ALP members are still stranded?

Ad astra reply

30/10/2011Folks We have had unusual server problems where the front end became inoperative, but the current piece remained operative. Web Monkey is with us this weekend and has been working through the problem remotely via a complex process. TPS is operating normally again. Apologies for the interruption.

NormanK

30/10/2011Good Morning Patricia WA There are other domestic services running for MPs to get to Canberra and if Labor MPs find themselves stranded, past precedent suggests that military craft will be seconded to ferry them around. I agree that the whole Qantas thing is a bit scary, mainly because it looks very political. The timing is outrageous. A Saturday afternoon so that weekend travellers are stranded away from their workplaces. The day before CHOGUM ends so that Australia is embarrassed by leaving world leaders and their entourages stuck in Perth. It also blew CHOGUM and the Queen's visit off the front pages. Without knowing or properly understanding the complexities of the dispute, I have to say that from the grandstands this doesn't inspire confidence in Qantas management or Joyce.

nasking

30/10/2011Just to let jane & others know who were interested that our cat friend Midnight passed away last night...quietly & in no pain cradled by S' at the late night vets...strangely at exactly midnight. He had renal failure. He will be missed by us a great deal. The following link will take you to a picture...Midnight is the furry black cat: http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2011/01/01/our-christmas-plants-cats-dinner-but-wheres-the-main-meal/ Cheers N'

NormanK

30/10/2011Nasking Sorry to hear of your loss. My commiserations to all concerned.

Patricia WA

30/10/2011The Pollbludgers are doing a pretty good job of a running commentary. And yes NormanK Bushfire Bill and others have reassured me that the Airforce would be used to ferry MPs. Of course this GG is a different kettle of fish from Kerr so things aren't quite as scary as they might be. But I still think the Right have done a pretty good job of undermining this government and our Prime Minister. Makes you appreciate her strengths even more, doesn't it?

Ad astra reply

30/10/2011PatriciaWA You get the prize for working out how to get into [i]TPS[/i] via the Archive. Late last night I found that while the usual URL gave an error message, it the current piece was loaded it remained operative, even after refreshing, and of course Archive still worked. It was too late to get Web Monkey out of bed so I left repairs until this morning. This necessitated downloading Microsoft’s Remote Desktop Connection onto my iMac and connecting to the remote server. Fortunately Web Monkey had his portable backup hard disk with him and was able to access data crucial to repairing the problem, which took about an hour of complex work. The reason for the glitch remains unknown. This is the first problem we have had since updating to the new version of the blog engine. Let’s hope we have another trouble free period. Nasking I join in the commiserations over the demise of your beloved cat Midnight.

Ad astra reply

30/10/2011Folks I thought [i]Insiders[/i] was a reasonably balanced program this morning. Craig Emerson did a good interview (compare his understanding of economic issues with Joe Hockey or Andrew Robb, or the illiterate Tiny Abbott), and as ever Laura Tingle and Mega were sensible and Gerard Henderson was not over the top; he at least gave credit to PM Gillard at CHOGM. The Qantas dispute is now very serious. I cannot believe this radical move to ground all flights suddenly jumped into Alan Joyce’s mind between the Qantas AGM and his announcement. This has been planned, and if he thought the unions were trashing Qantas and its brand, by this one move he has surpassed the unions by a country mile. Imagine how you would feel being stranded overseas en route! This man is either desperate or unhinged. Yet on [i]Inside Business[/i] Joyce insisted he had no other option. What arrant nonsense. No other option? No warning to the travelling public to give travellers a chance to make alternative arrangements? No alternative but to do this in the middle of CHOGM and strand or at least inconvenience international leaders? Give us a break. Alan Kohler seemed pretty unimpressed even after Joyce insisted he had lots of support in the business community. Make or break? Let’s hope if anything gets broken it is not Qantas, but rather Joyce or the intransigent union leaders who want to cling onto an era long past and ignore the competitiveness of airlines in today’s world. I feel sorry for those who use air travel, unionists not involved in the dispute, and of course our national icon Qantas. I hope Fair Work Australia will knock together the heads of all those involved, and sort this out promptly and fairly.

Tom of Melbourne

30/10/2011The completely uninformed commentary here from FS is funny. Obviously an expert in the aviation industry too. Got some evidence, ie a link, for your allegations of political involvement?

psyclaw

30/10/2011FS Thanks for taking the attack to Hartcher. Yours is a good example for us all. His student speech article is a joke. This allegory is not a legitimate entre to an anti government diatribe. As I read it, the speeches were agin JG [b]and[/b] the fool Abbott. BTW here is a quote from Reith re Qantas: [quote]I understand that the short-term politics for the Coalition is to make Qantas the PM's problem, but I find it strange to hear Tony Abbott say Gillard should step into the dispute. I thought Abbott's position was that Gillard was a hopeless negotiator and everything she touched turned to mud. So why would the opposition want the government involved? Sadly, the answer seems to be that they do not otherwise have a policy response.[/quote] Since mine enemies enemies are my friends, he should be encouraged to continue such articles. He has written several pro-Work Choices articles on the Drum recently and I always warmly congratulate him ....he is wedging Abbott and forcing him to invent an anti-cremating machine. I think the national president of the Lieberal Party shafting by Abbott will live long in Reith's memory and he is a revenge addict and expert. Good! Nas Joyce's father was a factory worker and his mother a cleaner. It's an unusual ancestry for such an industrial extremist. Reading around this morning it appears that Joyce tried to phone the PM at 1400hrs yesterday but she was giving a CHOGM speech. He spoke instead to ministers Ferguson, Evans and Albanese. There is much talk that this was to use the shut down threat as leverage for a government intervention (despite his frequents statements over recent weeks that he did not want intervention). When the government took no action, at 1700hrs he called the shut down. According to L Tingle the social media is full of ant-Joyce sentiment today .. the failed brinksmanship will probably see him cast as [b]the[/b] persona non grata in all of this. I note that ministerial intervention under the FWA is allowed only if life is endangered or the economy is endangered (s431, 1 (b) (i) and (ii)). Joyce's shut down action is very likely to activate the "endanger the economy" provision. This restriction to ministerial intervention applies in cases defined in s 408 as "protected industrial action" and the current dispute falls into the s 408 gamut. The conservo wailers will be all over this tomorrow.. "why didn't the government intervene weeks ago?" The fact that in their opinion s 431 had not been activated by the dispute till yesterday will not worry them.

BSA Bob

30/10/2011Just listening to ABC Radio's 12pm news. I thought it gave fair & balanced coverage (in the true meaning of the words) to the Qantas dispute. Perhaps there is hope. Apparently the Pilot's Association has a prior dated email of some kind essentially proving that Qantas' move was premeditated.

TalkTurkey

30/10/2011Hi Folks, couldn't pull TPS up for quite a while, now I'm well behind the 8-ball. Queen. CHOGM. QANTAS. Casualties. Too much local BS news to get anywhere on big picture stuff. The World is wasting what time it has left with dumb stuff like this. There is only one issue now, saving the planet. As I write someone on ABC is talking about how (human-induced) ocean acidification is affecting oyster production. That's all that matters, the oysters for humans. Never mind the volutes, the coral polyps, the Glory of the Seases (if any survive), the krill whose skeletons also are affected, the whales and everyone else who live on the krill, the terrible news is we might not have oysters any more! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The world's ship is sinking without any real attempt to fix its problems, while *we* (humanity in this case) play stupid games, of which breeding is the deadliest, and of which war is the stupidest. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ One of the Defence Force chiefs said he was "saddened and outraged" by the attack on the men in Afghanistan. [i]Outraged![/i]. He'd probably call it a [i]cowardly[/i] attack too, whereas it is the supremely courageous act of any man's life to do what their attacker did. All's fair in war, and it is *we* who are in *their* country, *we* who go on about the War on Terror, *we* who deploy the aircraft and big weaponry, how can a defence chief be *outraged?* Let us just get the hell out of there. No more excuses, surely? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Oddly enough, you might think, I think the Government is well on its way to winning the next election. What is more I think that political blogs are in no small part responsible, albeit largely by sort of osmosis, but that is OK, it's as valid as the next way, maybe valider than most. But I just wish that we could put these islocentic minidramas to bed once and for all, and get down to, yes, saving the planet. Fie on Abbortt and all his ilk everywhere in the world, it is their kind that are the impediment to the rest of our doing that. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sorry for you in your time of grief Nasking and OH. Even if it's only for a cat, and I don't like cats in Australia. The grief hurts anyway.

nasking

30/10/2011[quote]I thought Insiders was a reasonably balanced program this morning.[/quote] Ad, I agree. And I thought both Bill Shorten & Craig Emerson were highly effective in getting the government message out. Somethin' stuck in my mind that Shorten said a few days back re: Superannuation...along the lines of: "Imagine if America had our super system they'd have trillions more as a sovereign wealth fund and not be as deeply in financial trouble". Good point. [quote]The Qantas dispute is now very serious. I cannot believe this radical move to ground all flights suddenly jumped into Alan Joyce’s mind between the Qantas AGM and his announcement. This has been planned[/quote] Agree again...can't be any coincidence that Reith was out there the past few mths on The Drum & Sky News...and one of the first outa the gates pushing the case for Qantas' Joyce & attackin' the government's workplace reforms as havin' gone too far. Also the premiers of NSW & Vic gettin' involved more heavily the day before...and Abbott...as George Mega mentioned on Insiders. Be interestin' to see if hotels & other airline execs were informed beforehand...and what info Channel Nine, Channel Ten execs, shock jocks & News Ltd execs had. Looks like yet another Coalition & usual suspect media coordinated campaign to me. Certainly an arrogant middle finger to the small Qantas shareholders & passengers not given a heads up... it seems that Joyce & his allies are willin' to trash the reputation of Qantas as happened to Ansett previously...and Telstra...and from what I remember, wasn't Rupert Murdoch involved w/ takin' heaps of money outa Ansett? Pretty suss too that Richard Branson barnstormed the mainstream media outlets not long ago...and Virgin Airlines has been pumped up so much via ads of late. Notice Gerard Henderson on Lateline mentioned conveniently that he had "flown Virgin last night" & went into the fact that some of their staff were paid lower rates than the Qantas ones. I know where you are comin' from in regard to "competitiveness"...but serious problems can be caused by the obsessive focus on profiting for shareholders & lowering prices at the cost of treating staff w/ respect and investing in maintenance & staff health & peace of mind. Turnin' them into "insecure bots" can lead to tragic events of various kinds. That includes bringin' in quickly trained replacement staff who don't know the "ins & outs" & quirks of the different airline models. Let's hope that compromise & effective negotiations will be conducted by both sides under the FWA intervention... rather than the kind of intentional blocking & irresponsible wrecking ball approach of the Tea Party Republicans in America who almost took their country off a cliff. Gerard Henderson tried to label any idea that this was "planned" as a "conspiracy"...predictable response. The Coalition should remember that pushing somethin' similar to the waterfront dispute could backfire bigtime due to the fear this will invoke in workers these days related to WorkChoices (as in "if they are willing to go this far w/ their top end of town driven campaigns...what happens if they get all the state & federal governments...crazy like a Tea Party Abbott & Joyce & Bolt/Murdoch media & Alan Jones?)... and they should remember that their attempt to pull another Tampa-like situation re: Aboriginal Intervention, somewhat backfired. Certainly there is a degree of "wedging" the government on issues here, as there was w/ the "intervention"...and attempting to paint them as "leading from behind" (think obvious campaign against Obama)...and "incompetent" leading to "debacles" (strange timing by Peter Hartcher as mentioned above re: slaggin' off "minority government")... and focusin' of late on "productivity" in order to compare their waterfront dispute leading to more productivity wheras the ALP is in bed w/ the unions (see attack on possible ALP president) and has failed in "productivity" area as evidenced by inaction w/ Qantas dispute. This was certainly planned a long time ago...the moment ya saw Reith's mug all over the tele & internet ya had to suspect a few big campaigns were bein' put in place...I imagine his loss of the presidency by one vote was just another ATTENTION-SEEKING effort by the Coalition... workin' overtime to find a way to manufacture chaos so they can play the saviours & paint unions as evil...and gov't incompetent. Not hard considerin' the top end of towners & media they have on board. I imagine many a Murdoch & Gordon Gecko-like character spends many sleepless nights planning & buying/blackmailing/offering Kingdoms to pollies & other media in order to get what they "think they deserve" as "superior beings"...and to undermine hurdles in the expansion of their empires. Ruthless stuff, as we are now witnessing. Win at all costs. N'

nasking

30/10/2011[quote]Notice [b]Gerard Henderson [/b]on Lateline mentioned conveniently that he had "[b]flown Virgin [/b]last night" [/quote] Sorry, make that [i]Insiders[/i]. N'

2353

30/10/2011Regardless of the rationality of the Qantas workers demands - which I don't know enough to comment about - Qantas is the second large Australian airline Joyce has been in the senior management ranks of when it's reputation was trashed. The other one was Ansett. With the Qantas brand being trashed (and Jetstar being a Qantas owned airline) will the two big airlines in 2021 be Virgin Australia and REX?

nasking

30/10/2011[quote]Joyce's father was a factory worker and his mother a cleaner. It's an unusual ancestry for such an industrial extremist. [/quote] psyclaw, [b]Profile: Alan Joyce[/b] [i]By Lucinda Schmidt, The Age.com January 24, 2007[/i] [quote]When Alan Joyce worked as a research analyst for Irish airline Aer Lingus he applied for a [i]job as a pilot but was knocked back[/i]. "[i]I'm probably too hyper[/i]," laughs Joyce, who is now the boss of about 300 pilots and 1300 other staff, as chief executive of Jetstar. His [i]mathematical skills [/i]have been far more useful to his aviation career than a pilot's licence. The Irish-born Joyce holds a master of science degree from Trinity College, Dublin, with a double major in physics and maths, which has proved invaluable when facing complex revenue management issues such as [i]forecasting the percentage of no-shows on a particular route on a particular day [/i](which allows the airline to over-sell seats by up to 3 per cent). [i]Attitude to money I've always been very conservative, with no elaborate expenditure[/i]. Maybe it's my working-class background; you appreciate the resources you have. Best investment Education. My [i]parents are from a working-class background [/i]and spent what they had to put four kids through uni. The biggest foundation you can give anybody is education. Biggest break [Qantas CEO] [i]Geoff Dixon [/i]giving me the job as chief executive of Jetstar. It's been such an experience, such a great project. The environment was just perfect.[/quote] http://www.theage.com.au/news/planning/profile-alan-joyce/2007/01/22/1169330826236.html Possible OCD, manic/hyper...obsession w/ figures & small details...unions undermine his need to get things "just right"... ambitious, pushed to move beyond parents' workin' class trap, possibly feels he owes it to them (worth seein' effects of unions in UK/Ireland when he was growin' up & attitude of certain educators/parent)... possible envy of pilots & wary of other staff... Dixon influence?...who else was behind the decision to make him CEO?...who does he owe or feel need to demonstrate he's capable?... many a CEO comes from similar backgrounds & has same ruthless drive but actually see themselves as charming, friendly negotiators doin' the right thing for the company & the customers. As long as they have a few top influential people pattin' their back they can justify anythin' to themselves. I knew some execs like that in Canada via my Dad's businesses. N'

nasking

30/10/2011Many thnx to Norman, Ad & Talk Turkey...I shall pass yer kind words on to my wife. Much appreciated. It's been a tuff day. We send our condolences & sympathy to the families of the poor soldiers killed & injured in Afghanistan. Tragic. There are some who put others' lives & well-being ahead of money. Some never sacrifice anything but integrity & principles in their blind pursuit of... Plenty at the top have sacrificed nuthin' durin' Bush's wars...but they've gained heaps. Let's hope we EXIT soon. And their feedin' trough disappears. And brave soldiers can come HOME. N'

nasking

30/10/2011[quote]But I just wish that we could put these islocentic minidramas to bed once and for all, and get down to, yes, saving the planet. [/quote] Well said Talk Turkey. Enuff of the Machievellian claptrap that harms many & benefits a few like the corporate media & some shareholders. Time to get on w/ the healin'. And makin' for a safer, more innovative, diverse, fairer, saner more secure future. N'

nasking

30/10/2011Either this guy is on somethin' to pump up his confidence & keep him awake, motivated...or he's bein' medicated for somethin'...possibly both...his performances have been capricious, unpredictable & over-the-top: [b]Rick Perry's Unusual Speech Performance[/b] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/29/video-rick-perrys-unusual-speech-performance_n_1065571.html Perry has been spoilt in Texas...he's obviously used to gettin' his own way. To think this unpredictable performer & emotional cyclone could be in charge of America's military & nukes...frightenin'. N'

Acerbic Conehead 2

30/10/2011Have no fear, Joycey’s here! The future of QANTAS is surely in good hands. Joycey has got everything under control. He and the Board are gonna fly the planes themselves. They mighn’t have any flying expertise, but don’t planes these days have auto-pilots anyway? Sing along with Joycey as he begins his advertising blitz for the reformed QANTAS. It’s his version of Tom Petty’s, “Learning to fly”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p_f7Df2-oM :- ) Well I’ve started out down a dirty road Closed QANTAS down, with the Board in tow As CHOGM closed down, we crossed that bridge Conscience clear, my cause is ridgy didge :- ) I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings On squillions a year, don’t need dem tings :- ) Well the good ol' days will not return A lesson that, passengers will have to learn :- ) I'm learning to fly, jus’ give me my due She’ll be right, got the auto-cue :- ) There’s no way life’s, gonna beat me down The begrudgers say, “why pay that clown?” So I've started out, for God knows where I guess I'll know when I get there :- ) I'm learning to fly, around the clouds Me ego’s size, sure it knows no bounds :- ) I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings Shove a stopper, right up yer rings

Michael

30/10/2011To me Abbott looks all nonplussed over the Qantas developments, falling back on "the government should've" lines. Is it possible Big Business wants to see how Abbott steps up when there's the closest thing to a 'real' national crisis unfolding? If he delivers the 'right' lines, streaks out ahead of the PM as the 'sensible' leader when the going gets tough, then he passes the test, and the fat-cats get behind him? But if the PM and her government come out ahead with the public, Abbott's just been burned out of contention without him being in government, and thus, not removable. Just a thought. The chance to stake the biggest claim of all is right in front of Shouldabeen right now. Prove he really is the PM who should be. Except, from what I've seen and heard of him so far, it's all about the government hasn't done, without the slightest hint of what he would do. In short, he's muffing it.

Feral Skeleton

30/10/2011Hi guys! Just back from the Woytopia Alternative Lifestyle Festival in downtown Woy Woy, home to the cosmic Spike Milligan. :) And what have I come back to? Many worthy comments from my fellow TPS travellers, eventually(Nas & I must have had a wormhole into the site last night)...and Tom of Melbourne's malarky. Sigh. So he wants some evidence that there is Liberal Party involvement in the Qantas Management's action wrt the Union's Enterprise Bargaining round and negotiations, such as they are, with Qantas. Where do I start? The conveniently-timed letter from the 2 Liberal Premiers that pre-empted the actions that Qantas Management were just about to take? Which nicely laid the line out that the PM should get involved, and when she didn't & it all blew up on Saturday, they could say, "We told you so." Just like Tony Abbott, who has manufactured the government incompetence line now because the government should have sorted this out weeks ago, apparently, except that Qantas specifically told them they didn't want their involvement. Then there has been the well-prepared appearance of Liberal Party shills in the media as soon as Joyce announced his action, trying to frame the debate as one in which the Unions have no option but to capitulate because "No one has job security in Australia, except if you're in the Public Service(and aren't they trying their darndest to get rid of them ASAP once they get back into government?). Of course, that is a line that suits the IR Warriors keen to reintroduce WorkChoices Lite, as it is being called now among the denizens of the hardline IR cabal and refugees from the H.R.Nicholls Society. No doubt they are busy right now, in their homes away from home in the Right Wing Think Tanks com[posing their apologia for the Qantas management thugs, ready to appear in the Right Wing Dailies out tomorrow. Now I'm sure, if I went to the trouble of tracking down the CVs and IR pedigrees of a lot of these commentators that have been putting their 2c worth into the debate since yesterday, it would not surprise me to find both a lot of connections to the Liberal Party and the Right Wing Think Tanks and Right Wing Academia. However, I will leave the most overt piece of evidence of the links to the Liberal Party of those with skin in this game, till last. Which comes in the form of Mr Leigh Clifford, Chairman of the Board of Qantas, Liberal Party member, and architect of the de-unionisation of the Rio Tinto Mining Company, when he was on it's Board. An interesting link to his Liberal Party roots can be found here: http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/463296-leigh-cliffords-agenda.html

Feral Skeleton

30/10/2011AcerbicC., Thank yyou for the Tom Petty toon. :) Flying by the seat of his pants also appears to be Alan Joyce's style. Btw, did you know they're making a sequel to the famous movie 'Twins', starring Danny De Vito and Arnold Schwarzenegger? This one will be starring Alan Joyce and Barnaby Joyce. :D

Feral Skeleton

30/10/2011Michael, The Tiny-minded one is spouting 'Nonsense on Stilts' with his line about the government needing to have been involved in this dispute earlier. Qantas told them not to do it. Even the ABC is saying that.

Tom of Melbourne

30/10/2011No FS, what I was after was your justification for this specific comment – [i]“It's no surprise Peter Reith is all over this action by Qantas' Management like the Industrial Relations scumbag that he is.”[/i] I mean you've now widened your attack, but you've specifically said Reith was involved. Is there justification for it, or did you just get carried away and make it up?

psyclaw

30/10/2011FS at 5.53pm See my post above re s 431 of the FWA and the criteria for government action. I don't believe s431 was activated until Joyce closed up shop. This is the same paradigm as the Indonesian slaughter house matter. First the conservos cry "the government must do something" followed soon by "the government did it wrong" followed soon by "the government does everything wrong ..... look at the BER". They're a creative bunch!

psyclaw

30/10/2011The fool Abbott's ambitions might have now taken a good hard dent in LT's opinion: [quote]Laura Tingle Political editor: Alan Joyce has handed Julia Gillard the stage greatest and opportunity of government of her prime ministership, as well laying groundwork for an entirely new political debate on Industrial relations. http://afr.com/p/national/qantas_puts_ir_ball_in_gillard_court_NJSlg0PSj9GXVeIFdrmOxN[/quote]

Ad astra reply

30/10/2011[b]Political Sword Media Mash[/b] Minority government is on the nose, an opinion piece by Peter Hartcher, [i]Sydney Morning Herald[/i] October 29, 2011 http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/minority-government-is-on-the-nose-20111028-1moih.html [b]Let’s remember at the outset that this is Peter Hartcher’s opinion, to which he’s entitled. Having read it three times, I am still wondering what the point of the article is, except that ‘minority government has failed’ and that the people don’t like it. And from the tone of his words, he’s pretty annoyed himself. He does set out some evidence to support his views. Let’s look at it.[/b] “[i]Even teenagers unable to vote have decided, as have an increasing number of voters, that they have had enough. “The seven teenage finalists fought back their nerves as they were handed the topic for their impromptu speech. It was this year's Victorian State final of Australia's premier high school public speaking contest, the Plain English Speaking competition, held on June 30. As they unfolded the piece of paper, each found the same words: "Partners in crime". “The hard part? The contestants, all aged 16 or 17, had to turn these three words into a smart, interesting, coherent four-minute speech in front of a live audience and a panel of three judges. And they had exactly three minutes to prepare. “The topic was crafted to be wide open to interpretation. There was no "correct" way to decipher the concept of "partners in crime". So how did Victoria's best high school speakers choose to interpret the thought? Of the seven, four strode onto the stage and spoke about Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott. The Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition were the "partners in crime". “There was no caucusing. The contestants were held separately and none got to listen to the others before delivering their own. The fact that most of these kids took the opportunity to denounce the national leadership was a troubling sign of the times. The encroaching sense of national dismay is real.”[/i] [b]So here’s the first piece of evidence – four of seven teenage finalists in a public speaking contest coupled PM Gillard and Opposition Leader Abbott as ‘partners in crime’, and according to Hartcher ‘denounced the national leadership’, which led him to sense that ‘national dismay is real’. Later you will read that Hartcher uses focus group outcomes to boost his case, although he must know how much disparagement Labor has copped over its use of these groups. So is this teenage wisdom the outcome of a mini-focus group – the young people’s parents and friends, or is this the product of well-reasoned, factually supported debate? Unlikely, since the speeches were impromptu with only three minutes to prepare. But if this episode supports Hartcher’s considered opinion of minority government, why not use it? Hartcher explains.[/b] “[i]It's partly about Gillard and the way that Labor has behaved in the past year-and-a-half; it's partly about Abbott and the way that the Opposition has behaved; but it's also a verdict that minority government has failed, that Australian politics has gone seriously wrong, and a craving for a return to "normal".”[/i] [b]It’s reassuring that both PM Gillard and Opposition Leader Abbott cop Hartcher’s reprimand, but note the daring leap to ‘the verdict’ (whose verdict?) that ‘minority government has failed’. QED. The fact that Gillard and Abbott are regularly exchanging unpleasantries is undeniable, but how does that lead to the verdict that minority government has failed? I seem to recollect that similar verbal stouches occurred when there was majority government, some when John Howard had a splendid majority in both houses. To connect contemporary ‘behaviour’ to failure of minority government fails the logic test. Perhaps Hartcher felt that conclusion was somewhat feeble, so he drew in some other evidence – from Glenn Stevens.[/b] “[i]It's powerful enough that even the governor of the Reserve Bank, Glenn Stevens, was obliged to acknowledge that the "increasingly bitter political debate" was damaging consumer confidence. Rising household incomes were accelerating but consumer spending was slowing and one of the explanations was the conduct of politics: "It seems we are, at the moment, mostly unhappy," Stevens said in a June 27 speech. “Central bank governors avoid political commentary like the plague, so it was striking that "bitter" political debate had become so important and unavoidable a problem that he felt compelled to speak its name.[/i]” [b]Now Peter, why don’t you spell out who has engendered this ‘bitter political debate’? I seem to recall that from day one as leader, the pugilist in Abbott came to the surface, and that he has been unremittingly negative and obstructionist ever since, and ever since the election has been berating PM on everything, casting her and her government as illegitimate and the worst in political history, and that PM Gillard has been relatively mild in her responses, countering Abbott in the house and calling him obstructionist and negative in public statements, which of course is an accurate description. Why do you cast them as equal ‘partners in crime’ to use your words, when the aggressor has been and still is Abbott. It’s like coupling the schoolyard bully with the bullied, when the latter retaliates. You know who has been looking for a fight from get-go. Why not call him for the bullyboy he is, determined to get his hands on the keys to The Lodge no matter why damage he does to our society with his rallies and toxic language, no matter what damage he is doing to the economy which he talks down over and again?[/i][/b] “[i]The Australian National University this week published one of its regular polls on national affairs. It found a marked fall in satisfaction with democracy in Australia since last year's federal election. “Satisfaction fell by 13 percentage points after the election to its lowest since 1998, and has remained at this level for the past year. “Why was 1998 the previous low point? It was the year of the election where Howard and Costello were campaigning for the GST; Kim Beazley's Labor was running a mighty scare campaign. “Voters were alarmed by the Howard-Costello plan and angry that Howard had earlier promised he would "never, ever" introduce a GST. But they were deeply unconvinced that Beazley would be any real improvement. An electorate angry with a prime minister going back on a promise, frightened by a tax scare campaign, yet unconvinced by the competence of the alternative - sound familiar?”[/i] [b]Well Peter doesn’t that tell you something? When scare campaigns are extant and effective, satisfaction falls. That should not be a surprise, and should tell you that Abbott’s scare campaigns are having the same effect. So why not lay that squarely at his feet, instead of ‘sharing the blame around’.[/b] [i]"A fall of 13 percentage points is actually a lot," says Professor Ian McAllister, the man who supervised the poll and a respected political scientist. "These things are fairly secular - they don't move around a lot with events. When you see satisfaction with democracy going down, that makes me nervous. "When we drilled down we found it was people who didn't like minority government - they were worried about accountability and efficacy." And public concern at minority government has sharpened further in the past five months, as revealed in another finding, says McAllister. “The poll found a pronounced rise in the proportion of Australians who believe the country's biggest problem is the "need for better government". "It's doubled since the last poll", conducted in May, from 9 per cent to 18 per cent, McAllister reports. Only the category of "economy and jobs" rated higher on the worry-o-meter, at 22 per cent. "To have one-fifth of people mentioning the quality of government as the first problem facing Australia is actually a lot. There's something going on. People see it as a failure of the system in a way. It's something I haven't seen before in the polls." “The same sort of sentiment was captured in the decline in the number of people who think the country is "heading in the right direction". It's fallen from 63 per cent in May to 55 per cent now. "I think there's a fundamental dissatisfaction and discontinuity felt among a significant minority. It's not about issues, it's going beyond issues - it's about how things are working," says McAllister. "People aren't stupid. They see a series of policy debacles" - he lists the way the mining tax was decided, the way the carbon tax was decided, and the conduct of asylum seeker policy - "and they put things together and work things out. They really don't like minority government. "It's not as if there's one policy they could get a task force to fix and all would be well - that's just what Julia Gillard tried to do to get things off the agenda at the last election. That's why I think the Gillard government is probably terminal."[/i] [b]This is a sound poll, so the data is likely reliable. But do McAllister’s conclusions follow from the data quoted? Or is this his extrapolation? Did the poll ask about minority government? The only time minority government was mentioned in the ANU report was in the comment on the question [i]“On the whole, are you very satisfied, fairly satisfied, not very satisfied, or not at all satisfied with the way democracy works in Australia?”[/i] The poll showed satisfaction had fallen from 86% in mid 2007 when Kevin Rudd was riding high as Opposition leader to 73% in mid 2011, a fall of 13%, which McAllister says is substantial, but after all, 73% is still pretty high. Take a look at the graph on page 7 and judge for yourself. http://publicpolicy.anu.edu.au/anupoll/documents/2011-10-25_ANUpoll_government_services.pdf Yet Hartcher quotes McAllister as saying “[i]…once again, a substantial driver behind this change has been the negative views of many voters over the minority labor government elected in the 2010 election.[/i] How has he reached this conclusion? From the data, or is he extrapolating? Then for good measure McAllister gratuitously offers his opinion: “[i]That's why I think the Gillard government is probably terminal."[/i]. Why is a pollster offering this opinion when it seems not to be derived from the poll data, and why is Hartcher quoting him, if not to support Hartcher’s own contention that the Gillard Government is terminal? This in not what pollsters ought to be doing.[/b] “[i]But it's more than Gillard, and it goes beyond minority government. McAllister does numbers, the so-called quantitative polling, but doesn't do the voter thinking and feeling that underlies them. For that qualitative research, we turn to Rebecca Huntley, the director of the Ipsos Mackay Report. She convenes the notorious "focus groups" that sit around talking about what's on their minds. “In truth, it's not so much the groups themselves that have become notorious - it's the governments that allow the half-formed thoughts of random groups of uncommitted voters to guide policy. But Huntley, a former Labor staffer, uses them to winkle out thoughts and feelings for her commercial clients. She conducts 16 groups, each typically with about eight people based on friendship groups, four times a year, and writes a Mind and Mood report twice a year. “She also detects a distinct hardening in attitudes to the performance of the minority government in the past half-year or so: "In April people were still waiting to see what the multi-party government was going to do - now it's 'no, no, no, this isn't working for us'." “Why not? "Because the kind of issues the politicians and the media are obsessed with are irrelevant, marginal or controversial. Not so much with carbon tax, but on pokies, asylum seekers and gay marriage, for example, - people can't understand the disproportionate focus on issues that have nothing to do with their concerns, and they think it must be because of the Greens and independents." “What are the missing topics? "Mainstream concerns are not so much about meeting the next mortgage payment but about medium- to longer-term matters. They're always about building the economy after the mining boom, preparing society for the ageing of the population. Who will own the houses? Who will look after the grandparents? These are the big endless conversations." “The creeping disenchantment with democracy, she says, is not because corruption is seen to be worsening or the mechanics of democracy are breaking down - "it's the disconnection between Canberra and the media on the one hand and the concerns of the people on the other." “Says Huntley: "The people are very ready for an election. Because a new government, whether it's Liberal or Labor, would be able to do what it actually wanted to do rather than what they're forced to do by the minor parties and independents in the minority government. "I'm starting to see the beginning of the same sort of malaise that fell over NSW about a year after Labor put Morris Iemma in." “Labor's problem is not just Gillard or its minority bedpartners. It's Labor's factional manoeuvrings and power plays , says Huntley. Australians are still appalled at the way Kevin Rudd was torn down in his first term. "Apart from Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard, the only other Labor people who come up in the groups are the faceless men, you know, 'Bill Shorten and Mark Arbib f---ed Rudd over and f---ked Gillard over and will f--- over everyone and they will f---k over everything'." For men without faces, they've made a big impression. “Huntley draws attention to the other half of the problem - Abbott. "One of the reasons people are depressed is they have no confidence that the alternative would be any better." “Confidence in Australian democracy reached a historical peak in 2007 when voters had a choice between Howard and Rudd. "It was a clear contrast. Australians generally like the idea of two strong political parties talking to each other well. And Rudd had lifted people's interest and engagement in politics - he was a competent man able to bring a fresh approach. There is none of that with Tony Abbott."[/i] [b]Having lampooned Labor for its dependence on focus groups, Hartcher then quotes at length Rebecca Huntley’s focus group research carried out as director of Ipsos Mackay Research. We can take it at face value as being no more or less valid than any other focus group outcomes. She mentions the media as complicit in forming the attitude of those surveyed, but Hartcher does not highlight this in his commentary, not does he make much of the feeling that there is little faith in Tony Abbott. Again Abbott’s complicity, indeed his pivotal role in creating these attitudes, is passed over by Hartcher.[/b] “[i]For perspective, Australian public attitudes are troubled and there is growing dismay, but Australians are far from despair. Satisfaction with democracy hit its lowest measured point in the constitutional crisis of 1975, when Malcolm Fraser's Coalition blocked supply in the Senate and the governor-general sacked the Labor prime minister, Gough Whitlam. Even Abbott didn't attempt to obstruct the budget. In 1975 satisfaction with democracy was 59 per cent; today it's 73 per cent. And, as Ian McAllister points out, it's still among the highest in the world.”[/i] [b]Hartcher having taken over 1600 words to build a case that ‘minority government is on the nose’, curiously knocks it over by conceding that satisfaction with democracy is [i]“…still among the highest in the world.” [/i] And that “[i]”…Australians are far from despair.”[/i].[/b] “[i]But as even the school kids now seem to think, the populism and lack of policy ambition in post-Rudd Australia that led to the debacle of the 2010 election and the minority government experiment has led to a fast-hardening verdict that the conduct of both leaders and all parties is damnable.[/i]” [b]Not deterred by any logical deficit in his piece, or by his second last paragraph, he returns to his theme that [i]”… the minority government experiment has led to a fast-hardening verdict that the conduct of both leaders and all parties is damnable”,[/i] and for good measure throws in an opinion not previously offered, that the 2010 election was a debacle, presumably to reinforce his adverse view on minority government, but without any indication of what way it was ‘a debacle’. We are expected to just swallow that as a self-evident fact. It really is a poorly constructed and inadequately argued piece, starting with, and ending with a teenage debate, with padding in between to support his header: “[i]Minority government is on the nose”[/i]. We the consumers of this opinion piece deserve better than this from a senior and experienced journalist.[/b]

jane

30/10/2011Nas' so sorry about your dear old cat. I lost a cat to renal failure, but he did not die peacefully, so I'm very glad that Midnight's death was peaceful and pain-free, cradled in S' arms. A fitting end for a dear friend. Also very encouraging news about your Dad and S'. The relief must be enormous, even though you must also be vigilant for the future. A well deserved sleep for you after so much anxiety. FS, Nas', Ad astra et al, damn right there's Rodent paw prints all over the shop in the Qantas dispute. Joyce gets a 70% pay rise and f*ck the people who actually do the work. Who'd be cheering that, I wonder? Yet "aspirational" morons still trot out the bullshit that the Liars Party is the workers' friend. Those that had a dose of SerfChoices certainly didn't believe that. Phone Card has been working in the background on SerfChoices Mk III for some time. And what other reason to ground Qantas flights than an attempt to cause maximum embarrassment to the government as CHOGM ends? However, the email proving it was premeditated will put the plotters squarely in the frame. In any case, Commonwealth leaders would be astute and well informed enough to see through this transparent and cretinous stunt.

Miglo

30/10/2011Sorry to hear about your loss, Nas.

Sir Ian Crisp

30/10/2011 [quote] [i]No FS, what I was after was your justification for this specific comment – “It's no surprise Peter Reith is all over this action by Qantas' Management like the Industrial Relations scumbag that he is.” I mean you've now widened your attack, but you've specifically said Reith was involved. Is there justification for it, or did you just get carried away and make it up? Tom of Melbourne [/i] [/quote] Here is your answer Tom. [quote][i]My grandfather was without work for over a year in 1929 as he fought for better pay and conditions for Merchant Seamen, the strike which eventually led to the downfall of the Conservative government of Stanley Bruce. He was supported by my grandmother, who went out to work full-time in the Nestle Chocolate Factory, on the production line.Quite an unusual occurrence in those days, pre World War 2. All the men were also supported by the Irish-Australian community, who made sure they and their families were all fed, and had a roof over their heads for the duration of the strike. Which is what the capitalists cannot counteract. Solidarity. Although they have had a decades-long project to atomise and instil fear into the workforce, especially by attempting to smash the Unions.This cannot be allowed to succeed. I'll be doing all I can to make sure they don't win this battle they have pulled on, that's for sure. Till my dying breath. Feral Skeleton [/i] [/quote] Feral loves the struggle; storming the barricades and wearing her Che Guevara T-shirt; lending her support to various struggles like the intolerable conditions that the Gosford Beekeepers must bear. For Feral it’s the old class struggle and it has been dinned into her head by grandpa and grandma. She was brainwashed and now it’s in her DNA. Sadly, some people are not happy unless they have an ‘enemy’. It still hasn’t been explained why those underpaid Qantas workers can’t seek another career.

jane

30/10/2011You mean, why can't Alan Joyce take a smaller cut than 70%, while trashing the miserly 5% the workers are asking? If Qantas is in trouble financially, how come he's got his fat greedy paw out for a 70% increase; he obviously hasn't earned it. He seems to have a lot more in common with the robber barons at Enron, Lehman Bros and Goldman Sachs than anyone is admitting. And funny that Phone Card is all over this dispute.

Feral Skeleton

30/10/2011Sir Ian Crisp, I feel sorry for you when I contemplate the vacuous existence and the existential void that your comments suggest to me is the sum total of your life.

Feral Skeleton

30/10/2011Tom of Melbourne, You want me to justify my attack on Peter Reith? What are you on? I suppose I imagined his conspiracy with Corrigan in the Waterfront Dispute. He's really a little angel. How could I have so misrepresented the poor petal? I mean, have you decided that, since the ALP will probably vote at their upcoming National Conference to allow a Conscience Vote in the federal parliament on the Same Sex Marriage issue that you have to find a new hobby horse to ride into TPS on? And that old nag is named, Peter Reith? I mean, really, ToM, Peter Reith would spit in my eye as soon as look at me, considering my sympathies for the workers he wishes to crush underfoot in the name of 'flexibility', 'productivity', and 'profit'. And you want to defend his honour here? Nay(or should that be, neigh?). You just want to insult me and he is your latest tool to beat me around the head with. Sad.

Feral Skeleton

30/10/2011jane, Didn't you know that it's just not done old girl to allow the 'units of production' to get a wage increase to keep up with the Cost of Living, instead of an effective pay cut, like they have been getting away with in the USA for the last 25 years or so? I mean, you just can't have the likes of the eponymous Sir Ian Crisp, not being able to afford to keep the Executive Jet and Luxury Vessel Industries afloat? It's their civic duty, and how dare the employees in the businesses that they bleed dry have one of those little legally-sanctioned uprising thingys they call a Strike.

Feral Skeleton

30/10/2011This article from September 17 sume up the IR Clubs attitude nicely: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/flawed-industrial-relations-act-means-endless-disputes-with-unions/story-e6frg9lx-1226139330104

Feral Skeleton

30/10/2011And here's Leigh Clifford himself, back on April 25 making it plain what he thinks: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/union-tactics-will-cost-jobs-says-qantas/story-e6frg6nf-1226044213276?from=public_rss

Tom of Melbourne

30/10/2011So in the absence of any evidence FS, I presume we can safely assume you just made up your comment about Reith’s involvement.

nasking

30/10/2011jane & Migs, thnx for the kind comments, I've relayed them to S' who sends her best wishes too. Been a topsy turvy time. I hope all is well w/ both of you & yer families. Jane, sorry to hear about yer wee friend. So sad. Life has its cruel moments...but also so many wonderful ones. Great job per usual w/ Cafe Whispers. And yes, Alan Joyce & the Coalition have alot of questions to answer. Somethin' stinks in the state of Australia. Useful addition to my analysis of Hartcher's article Ad. Well done. [quote]And what other reason to ground Qantas flights than an attempt to cause maximum embarrassment to the government as CHOGM ends? [/quote] jane, add to the mix creating a major distraction during the "mining tax" week. Demonstrates to the people that the right-wing are big economic saboteurs...anything to get their way. Very dangerous. Another drastic measure to harm tourism & other businesses putting pressure on govt revenue...attempt to make it harder to reach the surplus. N'

Feral Skeleton

30/10/2011Tom of Melbourne, Prove that Peter Reith isn't involved. He is part of the background noise and behind the scenes machinations which have been ramping up over IR recently. They have identified the part of the Fair Work Act that they don't like and have developed their campaign against it. This is their test case. Please refer to the proof I provide in the links above. If that's not enough for you, then you simply don't want to be convinced and you have reverted to being a troll and I will subsequently ignore you.

Tom of Melbourne

30/10/2011I agree that Leigh Clifford is involved. He’s chairman of Qantas. We also have some analysis of IR, fine that’s something the media is supposed to do. But somehow this translates to [i]” Peter Reith is all over this action by Qantas' Management”[/i] By all means, post away, but how on earth is anything you’ve provided persuasive of this assertion?

Feral Skeleton

30/10/2011Nasking, Exactly, if the Coalition and their facilitators and enablers can't get their way by bullying the government, they'll sabotage them instead. Don't forget who is leading the Coalition, the man who got Pauline Hanson put into jail so as to get her out of the political picture. I wouldn't put anything past him. Btw, sorry to hear about your black pussy. :) I had one who passed away from the same malady at 14y.o. It was my first pet. Imbalaska. I cried for hours when my parents told me. :(

NormanK

31/10/2011[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]How pokies pre-commitment puts you back in charge Neil Levy The Conversation[/i] The debate over the use of mandatory pre-commitment technology in poker machines is the latest front in an ongoing war that pits advocates of personal responsibility against people motivated by concerns over harm reduction. http://theconversation.edu.au/how-pokies-pre-commitment-puts-you-back-in-charge-3690 [i]No faith in “anti-terrorism” laws Crispin Hull[/i] Now would be a good time to put an end to two things inherited from the Howard Government: the likely-to-be ruled-unconstitutional school-chaplains scheme and the human-rights-infringing anti-terrorism laws. http://www.crispinhull.com.au/ [i]And Justices for all David Horton The Watermelon Blog[/i] Look forget about the Monarchists for a moment. The ones with flags and funny hats and collections of Charles and Diana commemorative mugs; the ones who camp out for two days on the street to possibly catch a glimpse of a gloved hand waving from a speeding limousine; the ones who spontaneously sing “god save the queen” or are in tears at the thought that they have been in the same public space as a person of royal blood. http://davidhortonsblog.com/ [i]Barking at Nothing, Part 2 Andrew Elder Politically homeless[/i] Why is there a parliamentary press gallery? What is it for? It is an institution that has outlived its usefulness, and it is a symptom of mainstream media failure that they continue to focus on it as much as they do. http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/2011_10_01_archive.html [i]Victoria: Police Minister denies knowledge of Overland plot Video Australian Politics TV[/i] Well it looks like the Baillieu government is in further turmoil with revelations that advisors to the Police Minister (and Deputy Premier), Peter Ryan were behind a relentless campaign to see former Police Commissioner, Simon Overland, dumped.  http://australianpoliticstv.org/2011/10/28/victoria-police-minister-denies-knowledge-of-overland-plot/ [i]In which the pond deals with fraught matters of hospitality, vestments and the Sydney Anglicans ... Dorothy Parker Loon Pond[/i] In short, if say the heretic Cardinal Pell was to turn up at the Sydney Anglicans looking for a nice hot buttered scone and a cup of tea, perhaps even a lamington heaped with desiccated coconut, sad to say, he shouldn't be received, or given a greeting, because that would only be taking part in his wicked works. http://loonpond.blogspot.com/ [i]Open Letter to Qantas - Australians Will Not Forget Eugene Tomison Independent Australia[/i] For those in middle management at Qantas who did not fight for jobs to stay in Australia, remember — if you’re not at the top of the company, your jobs can be outsourced too. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/business/open-letter-to-qantas-australians-will-not-forget/ [i]Abbott’s duplicity: Mamamia and the Mad Monk Jennifer Wilson No Place For Sheep[/i] Until Tony Abbott makes public statements to the contrary, women would be most unwise to accept any assurances that he’s changed his mind on women’s reproductive rights, especially as they are so clearly set out on his website. There is no mistaking his position. http://noplaceforsheep.com/ [i]Book review: Lindsay Tanner’s Sideshow The Piping Shrike[/i] Tanner is well aware that a book from a key government player who left it on the day that it met one of the most extraordinary ends of any since Federation, would be expected to have at least something to say about it. Too bad. http://www.pipingshrike.com/ [i]Geo-engineering: why research something we never want to use? Kirsty Kuo The Conversation[/i] What if the world left it too long to take action on global climate change? Is there a way we could somehow cool the planet before an environmental crisis occurs? Geo-engineering is a potential course of action, but it should only be used as an absolute last resort. http://theconversation.edu.au/geo-engineering-why-research-something-we-never-want-to-use-3684 [i]Perth app developer wins $1.1m capital Renai LeMay Delimiter[/i] Wow. This is how fast Australian startups can develop at the moment. Filter Squad was founded in January 2011, won $200k of investment almost instantly, achieved a million downloads of its apps and then took a second $1.1 million round less than a year later. Anyone who thinks Australian startups are disadvantaged compared to the rest of the world, or that our local startup scene is not hopping, is crazy. http://delimiter.com.au/2011/10/28/perth-app-developer-wins-1-1m-capital/ [i]Anderson: Something has got to give Lainie Anderson Adelaide Now[/i] Pubs and clubs do good things for their communities - just like lots of other local businesses who sponsor sporting and special-interest groups. But despite what the industry would have us believe, pokie venues aren't all run for altruistic purposes (a Sydney Morning Herald investigation found the biggest NSW clubs donate just 2.7 per cent of earnings back to communities). http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ipad/anderson-something-has-got-to-give/story-fn6br25t-1226180327046 [i]Qantas – the stalled kangaroo Ash Ghebranious Ash's Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] I really got nothing to add to the debate although I cant help thinking about this. Take your pick of alternate story morals ... http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/qantas-the-stalled-kangaroo/

jane

31/10/2011FS @10.13pm. sorry, I'd forgotten how tough the likes of Sir Ian and CEOs everywhere are doing. How thoughtless of me to overlook their need for mansions on the North Shore and a helipad for the helicopter, which will be denied to their worthy selves by the evil machinations of these union types with their paltry demands. Tugs forelock. I promise I'll know my place in future. Backs away slowly, with lowered eyes, bent double, tugging forelock. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3E5vYNzrds Nas' you can only call them wreckers and I mean in the same sense as the wreckers who lured ships onto rocks with no thought for the welfare of the seamen on board. Similarly, this latest corporate attack on the government shows that these people are wreckers in the very worst sense of the word. They don't care who or what they harm in the process. Also, as has been remarked here and elsewhere, this mob is absolutely desperate to force an early election. They're running scared about something: like CEF being implemented, the increased tax free threshold, increased pension payments, compensation payments, lower tax for small business, MRRT being implemented, increased superannuation, NBN.....the list is amazing. And that's what has them wetting their pants. When people see what this government has achieved, Liealot and his cheerleaders will be stuffed.

TalkTurkey

31/10/2011Good Parliamentary Morning Swordsfolks, Quote of the Month: ((K) to unknown originator) - "Now Barnaby is only the second-stupidest Joyce in Oz." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Today is the last day to front a submission to the Media Inquiry.

Ad astra reply

31/10/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Michael

31/10/2011Peter Hartcher is all over the shop here: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/shutdown-exposes-failure-of-leadership-on-all-sides-20111030-1mqhz.html#comments as most of the commentators responding there observe. My own response? Somehow the 'little man grandstanding' that was John Howard as PM has become the model for leadership in this country. It never was anything but hot air, leaking as it blustered. To have a PM that calls on the laws of the country to deal with crises both real and manufactured should be seen as both a ratification of Australian democracy and an endorsement of that PM's responsibility to the nation. Not to the skill of goalpost-shifting that was John Howard's signature as PM.

2353

31/10/2011Fair and accurate reporting from the ABC. [quote]Qantas management has been told to get its aircraft back in the sky and drop its plans to lock out its workforce tonight. Early this morning the workplace umpire put a stop to all industrial action by the airline and unions, saying it was acting to prevent significant damage to the tourism and airline industries. [/quote]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-31/qantas-action-terminated-fair-work-rules/3609158 The shame is that fair and accurate is "worthy" of posting on a blogsite.

Michael

31/10/2011With such 20/20 hindsight wisdom as the quoted article below from Dennis Shanahan displays, you wonder why he didn't just phone up the PM and put her right a week or two back. In the national interest, the act of any good citizen. Or is he just peddling retro-Nostradamus BS here? "Told ya, told ya!" (behind the paywall, natch) http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/another-quandary-trips-up-canberra/story-e6frgd0x-1226180911998 'Julia Gillard has been caught in yet another crisis not of her doing and with limited ability to act decisively as the economy is damaged and public confidence undermined. Yet again, the Prime Minister has been pitch-forked into trouble without warning, under-prepared, lacking a fallback position and ill-served by some of her colleagues. This government seems endlessly capable of assuming things will turn out right and not being prepared when the worst-case scenario eventuates. While Gillard acted determinedly once the trigger of "damage to the national economy" had been pulled, she has been reluctant about becoming involved in a dispute that involves some of the most influential unions -- when she is weak and needs to shore up her leadership. Gillard didn't even use rhetorical pressure or moral persuasion on Qantas or the unions, while her Workplace Relations Minister, Chris Evans, government involvement. This reticence to even express a view came as the travelling public, Qantas shareholders and the tourism industry became increasingly frustrated and fearful of a destructive and cynical union campaign that threatened to bleed Qantas to death. When Qantas responded and grounded its fleet to bring the dispute to a head and force the government to intervene it was as if it hadn't been considered as a possibility. The government's public responses reflected old union loyalties, uncertainty about the Fair Work Act and a failure to grasp the real financial threat. It's true Qantas also used cynical and hardline tactics in the dispute and may have done itself harm with the travelling public with its sudden grounding, but more than two weeks ago Tourism Minister Martin Ferguson raised the prospect of government intervention to settle a dispute that was threatening Qantas and the tourism industry. Given Qantas was thinking about grounding its fleet for a while, why did no one in the government consider this a possibility without being told - just as they seemed incapable of imagining a High Court defeat on offshore processing of asylum-seekers. It's probably because the government spends too much time dealing with each crisis. Well, now there's another one.'

Feral Skeleton

31/10/2011Amazing, isn't it, how the Right, whose stock-in-trade is to frighten everyone out of their nighties and champion the virtues of the market to deal with things better than government, run crying to the Nanny State as soon as the frighteners they're trying to put on the Unions, and the inconvenience they have caused to the travelling public, doesn't work in the way they had pre-planned? All of a sudden they begin demanding a Command and Control State. Pathetic losers.

Feral Skeleton

31/10/2011Alan Joyce said Business was supportive of his actions. Not if you read this small business blog: http://www.newsagencyblog.com.au/2011/10/30/appalling-customer-service-from-an-arrogant-qantas/

BSA Bob

31/10/2011Michael & F.S. above. I'd just read the Hartcher article when I came on here, flicked through the Shanahan rant you quoted. Now that the dust appears to be settling on the immediate dispute we can look forward to a barrage of "Gillard should've..." stuff to put her in a bad light. As contradictory as all hell, abandoning any previous policies or positions in the knowledege they might be picked up on it by three or four commentators at most they'll just press on. Perhaps they mean the Government should have intervened along the lines of Howard & Reith etc during the Waterfront dispute. But they had more than three hours then to make their plans, didn't they?

nasking

31/10/2011[quote]Amazing, isn't it, how the Right, whose stock-in-trade is to frighten everyone out of their nighties and champion the virtues of the market [/quote] Feral, indeed. I was tryin' to think of a Halloween mask for Qantas CEO Alan Joyce...perhaps Acerbic Conehead could think of a corporate puppet/villian from the comics/movies/TV series. Then Chris Corrigan popped into my mind...and Tony Abbott, John Howard & Peter Reith...they'd certainly scare the workers' & families neighborhoods... but I decided this mask would be far scarier...and is more apt: Solomon Trujillo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Trujillo During the period of Trujillo's tenure, Telstra's share price underperformed the market by around twenty percent, losing over $25 billion in value[6][7] while customer complaints rose 300 percent... In the BBC interview, Trujillo cited Australia's "very restrictive" immigration policies and rigid rules on company privatisation as his evidence for the nation being backward and racist... The day after Trujillo made his comments about Australia to the BBC, many Australians took to online news sites, television news programs and talk-back radio to voice their opinions, with many stating Trujillo had wrecked the value and brand of Telstra during his time as CEO of the company. (wikipedia) AND: [quote]TELSTRA'S chief executive, Sol Trujillo, and his six senior executives are set to pocket yet another bonus - this time a windfall of $11.6 million - when a cornerstone investor buys a stake of more than 15 per cent in the company. Fund managers told the Herald that the so-called performance rights for Mr Trujillo and his senior executives would become available as early as May. The rights would be vested without having to meet performance hurdles and without an investor making a full takeover bid. The board would need to override the incentive plan to stop it and has not indicated it will do so. The latest revelations come after Mr Trujillo's $8.7 million salary package, which included a $2.6 million bonus, prompted outrage from investors and the Government. He doesn't own a share. The Prime Minister has urged investors to grill the board on Mr Trujillo's salary at Telstra's annual meeting on November 14.[/quote] (SMH) http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/sol-and-telstra-six-to-get-116m/2006/10/30/1162056926206.html Scary creatures & monsters...and super creeps. N'

Patricia WA

31/10/2011[i]AC, you fondly have named as Batwoman The one Tony Abbott fears as [i]'that woman!'[/i] In light of achievements near super-human I'd rather call her Superwoman! [/i] AC, that's as far as I got with my response to your delicious article about JG's heroic deeds, then all the horrors of the weekend unfolded. But looking back on it Alan Joyce has emerged as another one who shouldn't barney with our Batwoman! He may have got more than he bargained for in pushing the government into seeking the termination ruling by Fair Work Australia, rather than the suspension sought by the Unions. Whatever the machinations which had Coalition premiers and Tony Abbott urging the Prime Minister to intervene in the Qantas dispute during the royal visit and CHOGM, followed by Joyce's ultimatum by phone messages to her while she was still engaged in Commonwealth heads of government discussions, Julia Gillard kept her head and her distance. She stayed calm and in control, every inch a leader, when along with all her other responsibilities she was required to address the nation about our worst losses to date in Afghanistan. Lenore Taylor had this to say abput the Qantas crisis in http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/critical-test-for-gillard-on-industrial-relations-20111030-1mqhb.html[quote] In the first instance it is a leadership test for the Prime Minister and the new industrial laws she designed. If her intervention results in Qantas rapidly returning to the skies and the industrial dispute being brought to a relatively quick end, both she and the laws will have passed it. If that doesn't happen it will add dangerously to the sense of a government not in control.[/quote] Well she seems to have passed that test and plenty more not just in the past week but over the past year. She is indeed brave and thinking. She is also a very warm and empathetic woman, of considerable charisma. More and more I see comments everywhere about her strength of character, her intellect and her political skills. That is becoming increasingly clear to the public no matter how the media starve her of exposure and some commentators spin her achievements into failures. No matter how many insults and wrecking balls are hurled at her by Abbott and the Opposition and vested interests like Qantas, Crown Casino and mining magnates, she stands strong! Time for the Political Sword cheer squad to get organised, hey ladies, with Lyn back soon! Of course, AA, TT, Norman, and AC are obviously already members too! But from now on we shouldn't be just a leftie cheer squad, but a *J*U*L*I*A* cheer squad. I've often wanted to add pictures to comments here about the PM. I can do it at http://polliepomes.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/ad-astras-cheer-squad/ So first of all, what are the technicalities of putting pictures of her on this site, so that we enhance our comments about her and her achievements?

Feral Skeleton

31/10/2011PatriciaWA, There are lots of lovely pictures of the PM about, aren't there? I'm not quite sure that we can put up the pictures directly though. Same with You Tube. Unlike Cafe Whispers, which might have a different blog engine. I'll leave the technical answer to Ad Astra.

TalkTurkey

31/10/2011Folks Here is my eleventh-hour Submission to Australia's Independent Media Inquiry. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It is said that Rupert Murdoch's worldwide empire includes 70% of Australia's print media, and a great deal of the rest of the media here also. In Adelaide as in some other cities there is only one newspaper, and where this is so, it is because Rupert Murdoch has killed off the original opposition. That he, a man who traded his Australian nationality for the greater wealth he could make by becoming an American citizen, can through this media domination virtually prosecute a war on this or any Australian Government is outrageous and intolerable. Murdoch's own organisation is deeply corrupt, and he is not a fit person to control such a huge proportion of the means by which people receive information. I ask the investigators to use all means at their disposal to loosen Murdoch's stranglehold on Australian media, and to make those who foment hatred and misinformation in all media much more subject to being held to account. Elsewhere in the world many are calling for the Murdoch dynasty to be dismantled, or at least diluted, and the voice of Australia, the most heavily murdochratised of all nations, should be at the forefront of this chorus. [As I write Murdoch is being described on ABC 24 as "The media Sun-King"! ] This brings me to the other half of my concern: the downgrading of the ABC during the last decade, and in particular since the introduction of ABC 24. Never mind the inexpertise and glitches, the fact that when the Prime Minister is being interviewed at press conferences one can almost never hear the questions; it is the poor quality of many ABC journalists’ reportage, their trivialisation of serious issues, their acting as an echo-chamber for the mainly-Murdoch mainstream commercial media, their fascination with the skin-deep, that angers and saddens me. In particular the habit of giving prominence to antiscientific points of view – Monckton being but the most staring example – amounts to sabotage of Australian unity, and mischievous treachery on the part of the ABC. Despite repeated and reasonable objections over time, the Insiders show has insisted on including such as Andrew Bolt, the accredited racist hate-monger, and others who are equally bigoted, who make no secret of their extreme Rightist stance, and who time-out-of-mind have been permitted to interrupt and browbeat others who may have contrary views. No such extreme Leftist points of view are ever aired, (and none are wanted), but there is no equivalence between the screeching from the Right, and the reasoned tones of everyone else. Why the ABC has continued to countenance and feature and indeed thereby promote discredited and divisive and hateful viewpoints and individuals is for the Inquirers to consider, but it amounts at least to mischief counter to the public good, and beyond that, an absolutely intolerable abuse of this our public broadcaster to promote anti-(Labor)-Government points of view. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Political Sword is a blogsite set up by a certain Ad astra three years ago with its avowed focus being to hold politicians and journalists to account insofar as the blogosphere allows. He is, I may say, very well struck in years, eminent in his original profession, experienced in matters of life, and articulate, considered, prolific and sensible in all his written deliberations, which are to be found in hyper-abundance on his site. He is universally regarded as a ‘sage’! The archives of TPS record the thoughts of Ad astra, and of many like myself who day by day think we might have something to contribute to the political and journalistic discourse. Most of us are mildly Leftish, but extremism of any kind seems to wither on TPS when it does arise. That is as it should be in the society also, but I accuse the agenda-driven mainstream media of prospering the hate-spitters rather. It is a pity that such as Ad astra and other social educators do not receive that sort of coverage. Unlike those who, through the media, arouse such mindless frenzy as those who stormed the galleries of the House of Representatives recently, Ad astra thinks matters through carefully before ‘speaking’. Unfortunately he doesn’t get to speak as do the shock jocks, a matter with dire consequences for the level of information in the public in this country. Having read his work carefully day after day and month after month I realized just how fair and useful were Ad astra’s observations in matters political, and several months ago I prevailed on him as best I could to offer his services, by way of advice, to the ABC Board. I do think he was tempted, but he declined by reason of time constraints. He might yet be persuaded to give of his wisdom to those of a truly proactive and inquiring mind, and I do hope that might include yourselves. As for his bona fides, they are there for all to see. The point is that Ad astra’s archived site itself is the body of my submission. All we good-willed and thoughtful people, we are not just writing in a momentary whim, this is the single issue that binds us, concern with the quality of the Media and its dynamic relationship with the Politics of this country. We cannot say it any better than we have been saying it all along. The concentration of media is a disgrace and makes a mockery of any notion of egalitarian democracy, and the trivialization, misrepresentation and disinformation in matters of grave national interest is a dereliction and a serious mischief. The ABC seems to have taken sides as Ad astra and others have contemporaneously pointed out in specific and exhaustive detail. I entreat you to do whatever you can to bring about action to remedy this generally parlous state of affairs. May I say that were you to take the initiative and contact Ad astra directly via his blogsite, you would earn a great deal of credibility and respect from the many who follow his essays and posts on his site, merely by the goodwill it would engender. I intend to send this submission as a post on The Political Sword too, (so there is no confusion.) Ad astra himself has as I write not the slightest idea that I am so volunteering his advice. He might be a bit embarrassed, as he would, but his wisdom is assuredly there for the asking. An Afterthought: Yesterday Ad astra said “Folks I thought Insiders was a reasonably balanced program this morning.” . . . He might well have put a ! after that! Yours faithfully (My real name was here)

jane

31/10/2011Hear! Hear! Michael. [quote]The shame is that fair and accurate is "worthy" of posting on a blogsite.[/quote] Yes 2353, fair and accurate should be the default position for the msm. That it is not the case is a shameful indictment of the msm in this country. Well, Michael, it looks like good old Shamaham's and the rest of the msm's crystal balls were in the repair shop, or they would have been trumpeting this foreknowledge far and wide, you would think. [quote]Given Qantas was thinking about grounding its fleet for a while, why did no one in the government consider this a possibility without being told...[/quote] Gee, Denis, I don't know. The same reason you didn't know, I guess. Because it was being kept under wraps? Come to think of it, how come the Liars didn't know, or didn't let on?

NormanK

31/10/2011Worth quoting because it comes from an unlikely source. [i]Alister Drysdale is a Business Spectator commentator and a former senior advisor to Malcolm Fraser and Jeff Kennett.[/i] [b]Dr No can't last forever[/b] by Alister Drysdale Business Spectator [quote]After all, the polls consistently and widely show an electoral wipe-out for Labor, and show Abbott as preferred prime minister. However, perhaps it for that very reason these journalists are starting to question and analyse Abbott’s tactics, strategy and behaviour – and policy substance behind his avuncular veneer. A forensic piece of commentary from the admired and influential political writer Laura Tingle in last Friday's Financial Review (I read it in the $2.80 printed version) was pithily scathing of Abbott. ************************************ In other words, she’s stoically going about her paid job as the nation’s political leader. She’s stepped quickly into the unedifying Qantas dispute – there was no choice after the misjudged actions of the Qantas board and chief executive on Saturday. Her actions, words and demeanour were that of a Leader on top of her job. These events – along with current Canberra commentary – are reminders of that ageless lesson for any politician: voters may enjoy the tizz, white noise and the spectacle of the race, but what we demand when it really matters are results. It’s called substance beating style – and firm action beating hollow words. It also means playing the Dr No game can’t last forever.[/quote] http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Abbott-Gillard-carbon-tax-CHOGM-Qantas-China-pokie-pd20111031-N5QPB?opendocument&src=rss

nasking

31/10/2011Feral, thnx for yer kind words & I'm sorry for yer past loss too. The hurt is deep. I was wondering what a PRIVATE EQUITY FUND Halloween costume would look like? Could it be the Bain mask of the neighborhood? http://www.smh.com.au/business/from-leveraged-buyouts-to-a-busted-flush-it-wasnt-meant-to-come-to-this-20110421-1dqda.html or would it be an American flag over orange shirt w/ a scary hat from Myer and a pair of pirate pants that read: [i]Go Cayman Islands Monetary Authority!!! [/i]...? http://www.mondaq.com/australia/article.asp?articleid=93202 Anyone wanna pool their money & buy News corp shares? They'll be goin' cheap soon enuff: [b]Government under fire over alleged BBC licence fee talks with News Corp[/b] [quote]John McDonnell MP calls for more details about ministerial meetings with News Corporation before licence fee settlement John Plunkett guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 26 October 2011 The government has been urged to look again at the BBC's funding and reveal the extent to which it was discussed with News Corporation before last year's shotgun licence fee settlement. John McDonnell MP claimed there were "undue influences from the Murdoch empire" in the hastily agreed settlement that saw the licence fee frozen for six years and the corporation take on a greater financial burden, including the BBC World Service. Asked to provide evidence to back up his claims, McDonnell, the Labour MP for Hayes and Harlington in west London, said: "That's one of the issues we have been raising with ministers. "It would be helpful if ministers could publish the information about the number of times that they met with the Murdoch empire to discuss the licence fee itself. "Up until now we have not received any detailed information from them about the times that they met with Murdoch and the times they discussed the licence fee settlement." McDonnell said James Murdoch, the under-fire deputy chief operating officer at News Corporation, had made it "quite clear" that he wanted a reduced licence fee so that News Corporation could "exploit and develop their own empire at the expense of the BBC".[/quote] http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/oct/26/government-bbc-licence-discussions-murdoch Flippin' thru the channels I noticed SKY Australia had Jamie Briggs on today: [quote]Briggs was pre-selected as the Liberal candidate for the 2008 Mayo by-election to replace former Liberal leader and minister Alexander Downer. He won the seat, but with a significant swing against the Liberals compared to the 2007 federal election. After the 2010 federal election, Briggs was given the position of Chairman of the Coalition’s Scrutiny of Government Waste Committee as part of the Tony Abbott led opposition.[4] In September 2011 Briggs called for a return to individual contracts as part of Australia's industrial relations system despite Abbott ruling it out of Coalition policy [5] and in October 2011 Briggs called for a discussion in relation to the GST being applied to fruit and vegetables which Abbott also ruled out of Coalition policy.[/quote](wikipedia) Surprise surprise... N'

Michael

31/10/2011Alan (makes Barnaby look smart) Joyce said during his 10AM press conference this morning that he had been talking with the Government and the Opposition for the last few weeks about how to handle Qantas's simmering industrial relations issues. Just why would he have been talking with the Opposition? With his employees, his Board, shareholders, randomly encountered customers at the baggage carousel, the Government, I get. What could talking with the Opposition possibly contribute to a positive resolution of this situation? Oh.

nasking

31/10/2011[quote]you can only call them wreckers and I mean in the same sense as the wreckers who lured ships onto rocks with no thought for the welfare of the seamen on board. [/quote] Spot on jane. Yet the captains & commanders of the ships seem to make it ashore and are treated like heroes. Rewarded to their black heart's desire. N'

Feral Skeleton

31/10/2011Michael, Warren Truss openly admitted this morning he, as the Opposition's Transport Shadow, and the Opposition in general, had been having conversations with Alan Joyce, "for weeks". Though I must admit, that is a valid reason for him to have those conversations, as he is Shadow Transport Minister. What I query is what the coversations entailed?

nasking

31/10/2011[quote]It is said that Rupert Murdoch's worldwide empire includes 70% of Australia's print media, and a great deal of the rest of the media here also. In Adelaide as in some other cities there is only one newspaper, and where this is so, it is because Rupert Murdoch has killed off the original opposition. [/quote] Talk Turkey, Surely yer not implying that Rupert Murdoch & his minions have undue influence over politicians & others who decide who gets what & where? Surely not. :) [b]Kelner accuses Cameron of self-interest over Leveson inquiry[/b] [quote]He accused David Cameron of being motivated by a desire to deflect attention away from his own involvement with Rupert Murdoch and his decision to appoint Andy Coulson as his communications chief.[/quote] http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2011/oct/28/simon-kelner-leveson-inquiry I've got Victoria on my mind... BTW, useful comment...particularly this apt observation: [quote]Murdoch's own organisation is deeply corrupt, and he is not a fit person to control such a huge proportion of the means by which people receive information.[/quote] It's like the fictional Professor Moriarty controlling our media: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Moriarty N'

nasking

31/10/2011[quote]However, perhaps it for that very reason these journalists are starting to question and analyse Abbott’s tactics, strategy and behaviour – and policy substance behind his avuncular veneer. [/quote] Norman, yes...bring on Mr. Goldman Sachs Turnbull. Then the world will change for the better. :) [b]Goldman's offshore deals deepened global financial crisis[/b] [quote]McClatchy has obtained previously undisclosed documents that provide a closer look at the shadowy $1.3 trillion market since 2002 for complex offshore deals, which Chicago financial consultant and frequent Goldman critic Janet Tavakoli said at times met "every definition of a Ponzi scheme." The documents include the offering circulars for 40 of Goldman's estimated 148 deals in the Cayman Islands over a seven-year period, including a dozen of its more exotic transactions tied to mortgages and consumer loans that it marketed in 2006 and 2007, at the crest of the booming market for subprime mortgages to marginally qualified borrowers. In some of these transactions, investors not only bought shaky securities backed by residential mortgages, but also took on the role of insurers by agreeing to pay Goldman and others massive sums if risky home loans nose-dived in value — as Goldman was effectively betting they would. Some of the investors, including foreign banks and even Wall Street giant Merrill Lynch, may have been comforted by the high grades Wall Street ratings agencies had assigned to many of the securities. However, some of the buyers apparently agreed to insure Goldman well after the performance of many offshore deals weakened significantly beginning in June 2006. Goldman said those investors were fully informed of the risks they were taking. These Cayman Islands deals, which Goldman assembled through the British territory in the Caribbean, a haven from U.S. taxes and regulation, became key links in a chain of exotic insurance-like bets called credit-default swaps that worsened the global economic collapse by enabling major financial institutions to take bigger and bigger risks without counting them on their balance sheets. The full cost of the deals, some of which could still blow up on investors, may never be known. Before the subprime crisis, the U.S. financial system had used securities for 40 years to help Americans finance their houses, cars and college educations, said Gary Kopff, a financial services consultant and the president of Everest Management Inc. in Washington. The offshore deals, he lamented, "became the biggest contributors to the trillions of dollars of losses" in 2008's global meltdown. While Goldman wasn't alone in the offshore deal making, it was the only big Wall Street investment bank to exit the subprime mortgage market safely, and it played a pivotal role, hedging its bets earlier and with more parties than any of its rivals did.[/quote] http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/12/30/81465/goldmans-offshore-deals-deepened.html --------------------- Norman; from yer link: [quote]Her actions, words and demeanour were that of a Leader on top of her job. [/quote] I agree w/ that. Not easy dealin' w/ economic saboteurs w/ allies whose pockets are filled w/ gold. Thnx for the link Norman...great job w/ yer daily stuff, filling in for the lovely & hardworkin' Lyn. N'

Ad astra reply

31/10/2011[b]Political Sword Media Mash Two opinions on the Qantas dispute We have this morning another opinion piece by Peter Hartcher who seems to be getting grumpier with PM Gillard by the day, and one from Lenore Taylor that shows how to write a balanced piece.[/b] [i]Shutdown exposes failure of leadership on all sides[/i], an opinion piece by Peter Hartcher, [i]Sydney Morning Herald[/i], October 31, 2011. http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/shutdown-exposes-failure-of-leadership-on-all-sides-20111030-1mqhz.html [b]The piece begins with a video captioned: [i]As the lengthy industrial dispute within Qantas resolves, the Coalition is on the offensive over the timing of Labor's intervention.[/i] Tony Abbott gets the first say; you can anticipate what will follow! Then the text begins:[/b] “[i]The Qantas management cannot be prevented from making radical decisions if it's hell-bent on it, but the federal government cannot allow it to withdraw an essential national service in the process. “The unions were being unreasonable and the Qantas response was extreme, but the moment Qantas notified the government of its sneak shutdown this ceased to be an industrial dispute. It became a national emergency. “Prime Minister Julia Gillard was wrong to refer the matter to what she calls the "industrial umpire", Fair Work Australia, and sit back to wait for the industrial judges to hear all parties and weigh all arguments before deciding what to do.”[/i] [b]No ifs or buts from Hartcher – the PM ‘was wrong’. Note the tenor of his words: [i]”… to refer the matter to what she calls the "industrial umpire", Fair Work Australia, and sit back to wait…”[/i] Doesn’t everyone else call Fair Work Australia the industrial umpire? So why is it somehow not [i]de rigueur[/i] for PM Gillard? Note [i]…sit back and wait…[/i]; in other words dilly dally. Already readers can see which way Hartcher is heading.[/b] “[i]This is not an ordinary argument between boss and worker. Australia is an island. The single most important channel for people to move between Australia and the world is Qantas, which carries one out of five international travellers. “By allowing a shutdown, the government condoned social, business, economic and reputational damage on a national scale. It was a strategic partial isolation of an island continent. And it was quite unnecessary. Gillard should have demanded an immediate ministerial order directing the end of industrial action by the unions and the company. This would have kept the fleet flying. Fair Work Australia could have dealt with the dispute without damage to the national interest in the meantime.”[/i] [b]Now Hartcher gets more condemnatory, accusing the PM of ‘allowing’ a shutdown, and ‘condoning’ all sorts of damage. He’s warming up, and his readers with him.[/b] [i]”Gillard, who was an industrial lawyer before entering Parliament and who crafted the existing Fair Work laws, is continuing to see the matter through the lens of an industrial law practitioner. This is wrong. She needs to see it not through the lens of her former positions but her present one - Prime Minister.”[/i] [b]Hartcher continues his condemnation: [i]This is wrong[/i]. Again, no ifs or buts. Now we know it’s an opinion piece, but why not provide some evidence to confirm how the PM is actually viewing the matter, rather than assuming it and then condemning her for it. Talk about straw men![/b] “[i]To be fair to Gillard, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce deliberately blindsided the government with its shutdown. The airline could have asked the government to intervene in its dispute with the unions any time in recent weeks. It did not. “Even so, Qantas should have given the government as much notice as possible. It gave it only three hours. Still, crises test leaders. Gillard has failed the test of this crisis.”[/i] [b]So Hartcher leaves it until the third and fourth last paragraphs to mention the circumstances that were constraining the PM, which of course were of critical importance in her crafting a response, particularly as she was pre-occupied with CHOGM. Hartcher’s words “to be fair to Gillard” ring hollow after all the criticism he has heaped on her in his first eight paragraphs. Why not put that ‘fairness’ up front? I think we know why.[/b] “[i]But this crisis is also a test of Tony Abbott. He insisted the crisis was a matter of Gillard's competence, not of policy. But one of his MPs, Jamie Briggs, flatly contradicted him: "Absolutely this is a policy issue. These laws were written to give unions more power." “But this is a fight Abbott does not want to have. The crisis has exposed anew his failure to craft a positive agenda of reform. We see leadership failure all round.”[/i] [b]So at the very end he throws in criticism of Tony Abbott, to give ‘balance’ I suppose, but knowing full well most readers will never reach there. Here we have another Hartcher classic. Intent on heaping condemnation on PM Gillard over how she ‘handled’ the matter, he lampoons her in his customary style, without attempting the reasoning necessary to make his case. He fails to address the stated reason why the PM decided on referral to Fair Work Australia rather than using a never-previously-used provision of the Act whereby she could have terminated the dispute herself, namely that such a move could have been thwarted by a lengthy legal challenge. The PM wanted rapid action, which is what she got. Why does Hartcher believe he has a better handle on how this matter ought to have been managed than Julia Gillard, who created the Act? What arrogance from a journalist who has exhibited no outstanding understanding of industrial relations in previous writings. It looks like just another attempt at Gillard bashing by someone who believes she and her Government are terminal. So why not hasten their political demise. I hope he reads the comments that followed. Now for Lenore Taylor’s opinion.[/b] [i]Critical test for Gillard on industrial relations[/i] an opinion piece by Lenore Taylor, [i]Sydney Morning Herald[/i], October 31, 2011 http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/critical-test-for-gillard-on-industrial-relations-20111030-1mqhb.html “[i]Let's get this straight. The Coalition, which has for years banged on about the dangers of compulsory industrial arbitration, is attacking the Gillard government for not intervening in the Qantas dispute sooner and under a legislative provision that would have forced an arbitrated outcome more quickly. “And Alan Joyce has taken the ''nuclear option'', using provisions of Labor's Fair Work Act, which business groups insist affords far too much power to unions. “Like all watershed industrial disputes, the Qantas dispute will have both immediate political ramifications and a longer-term influence on the industrial relations debate. “In the first instance it is a leadership test for the Prime Minister and the new industrial laws she designed. If her intervention results in Qantas rapidly returning to the skies and the industrial dispute being brought to a relatively quick end, both she and the laws will have passed it. If that doesn't happen it will add dangerously to the sense of a government not in control.”[/i] [b]As we know the matter was resolved, after Lenore submitted her piece. So PM Gillard gets a tick.[/b] “Attempting to hasten that judgment, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott yesterday claimed Julia Gillard could have avoided all the economic and personal pain caused by the Qantas grounding if she had just intervened under a different section of the Fair Work Act during the three hours on Saturday between when she was confidentially informed by Qantas of its decision and when it actually did it. “The government says using the Coalition's preferred mechanism (section 431 of the Fair Work Act) would still have required an application to Fair Work Australia under a section of the act that has a higher threshold than the one it used, and could well have been challenged by the parties to the dispute. “In other words, the outcome likely would have been exactly the same as the one we have got. Except the government would have set a precedent encouraging warring industrial parties to bypass the industrial umpire and go straight to the minister.[/i] [b]Goodness me, Lenore is using ‘industrial umpire’.[/b] [i]”Once we are past that point of difference, the positions of Labor and the Coalition appear to be exactly the same: that Fair Work Australia should rapidly conciliate, then probably arbitrate this dispute - which, for the longer-term industrial relations debate, is an interesting situation. “Business groups have been arguing that the spate of industrial disputes is evidence that the Fair Work Act is not working, that it is giving unions more power to intervene in issues like outsourcing and offshoring and contracting that are properly the domain of company management, and that in the longer term it needs to be changed. “But by taking this course Joyce would appear to think that arbitration under the Fair Work Act offers him the best prospects of restructuring his company. “And the opposition's industrial relations spokesman, Eric Abetz, said the dispute was a reflection on the Prime Minister, but not on the Fair Work Act.”[/i] [b]Now that is what I call a balanced opinion piece. Please read it Peter Hartcher and lift your game, and please let your grumpiness with our PM dissipate.[/b]

Tom of Melbourne

31/10/2011Perhaps then AA or one of you would explain why the government chose to legislate a power for itself in the FW Act (to terminate industrial action) but then chose not to exercise it. If it was a judgement made by the government, it is a judgement that is open to criticism.

2353

31/10/2011AA. Can I suggest you send your Mash-up post above to MediaWatch as a suggestion for further investigation. TOM - Simply until Joyce went nuclear, there wasn't a case for anyone calling a national emergency. One hour and four hour stop works do not by themselves stop people from travelling completely. Furthermore if Joyce was interested in negotiation or abitration he (or the Qantas Board or the Union/s) could have applied to FWA for a hearing.

Tom of Melbourne

31/10/2011Joyce/Qantas gave the government the option of using the power they had legislated for themselves. The government made a judgement not to use that power. Fine, but the media and the public is entitled to analyse and criticise that judgement. Equally, if one of the unions involved – TWU - was not headed by a candidate for ALP presidency, would the judgement have been different? I find it odd that AA would be willing to criticise the legitimate interest of the media in examining these issues.

Patricia WA

31/10/2011[i]A propos[/i] of much of the commentary in the MSM on the PM's performance as discussed above I loved this comment at the Pollbludger by a blogger called "confessions" [i]Posted Monday, October 31, 2011 at 12:21 pm | Permalink ShockJockCoach Fake Coaching by latingle [b]Julia could personally disarm hijackers & land the plane & the listeners would complain she delayed the food service #shewillneverwin. Ain’t that the truth![/b] [/i]

Ad astra reply

31/10/2011Talk Turkey I’m just catching up with earlier comments today, having spent time this morning writing [i]Political Sword Media Mash[/i] commentary. Congratulations on your well written submission to the Independent Media Inquiry, and thank you for all the complimentary remarks you made about [i]TPS[/i] and me. Such comments make the continuous task of sustaining the site worthwhile. I do hope that during its deliberations the Inquiry will pay some attention to the several quality political blog sites who point to defects in the media every day.

jane

31/10/2011Excellent link, NormanK @11.26am. Although Shamaham is doing his best to paddle against the current. [quote]Warren Truss openly admitted this morning he, as the Opposition's Transport Shadow, and the Opposition in general, had been having conversations with Alan Joyce, "for weeks".[/quote] Quelle amazement, FS! I'm sure that you are as astonished as I, that Sir Reversalot and his fellow conspirators would have stooped to such underhanded and opportunistic behaviour! I'm sure they were just negotiating bulk discounts for the Liars Party's next bonding session in Oodnadatta. [quote]It's like the fictional Professor Moriarty controlling our media[/quote] The Emperor taught Moriarty, Nas'. Goldman Sachs, that's where Gordon Gecko learnt ethics, isn't it? Ad astra, Hartcher seems to have lost the ability to reason. Could it be that his head has been inserted in Liealot's backside for too long? Too true, Patricia WA.

BSA Bob

31/10/2011Qantas & its defenders' lines read like the self justification of the psychopathic wife beater- "See what ya've made me do NOW!! ya 'ckin' bitch!!!!"

nasking

31/10/2011[quote]Hartcher’s words “to be fair to Gillard” ring hollow after all the criticism he has heaped on her in his first eight paragraphs. Why not put that ‘fairness’ up front? [/quote] Ad, Hartcher could work for SKY NEWS or The Australian...same style...provide the target w/ a pat on the back after ya just gobbed on them from on high. BTW, the Media Mash format is useful...I used to do same on RTS, Blogocrats & at The Cafe...puts the opinion writer's piece under the magnifying glass and helps to identify problematics, bias, agenda, inconsistencies...etc. etc. Thought PM Gillard was on fire in parliament today, as were most of the government. Abbott looked shrivelled and desperate...loony grins emanating from a scary skull that would compete w/ the Halloween pumpkin sitting on the porch. The PM tore into the Libs & their hypocrisy & insincerity late in the parliamentary session...it was somethin' to behold. I had a good chuckle at the Libs' misery. What a bedraggled & motley crew...soiled by their own unprincipled march...led by the Mad Monk to the edge of oblivion. N'

Jason

31/10/2011Sir Ian Ever thought about the restaurant game? you produce such a great line of waffle it could be the start of a new career.

Feral Skeleton

31/10/2011I can't decide whether Tom of Melbourne is a Right Wing Industrial Warrior, hell bent on advocating government by Ministerial fiat and business practice by dictat, or a Stalinist Socialist Big Government Interventionist? Or a Right Wing Troll simply parroting the Opposition's talking points without understanding the law behind them. Simply put, s431 of the Fair Work Act, relating to Ministerial or Prime Ministerial intervention in IR disputes, is an action of last resort wherein the PM comes in over the top of all parties and directs them all to cease Industrial Action. However, the intervention is subject to judicial review, which can be initiated by either party to a dispute, and probably would be. Such action would therefore leave an industrial dispute in limbo until a court had ruled on the propriety of the intervention. Which in this case would mean that Qantas could have left it's planes on the ground until the judge in the Industrial Court ruled. I think using s424, and having the planes turned around within 48 hours of their mass grounding was by far the smarter move. However, as the Opposition, and their lackeys who seek to make mischief on blogs such as this, aren't too well-endowed in the smarts department, we must endure their abysmal attempted attack on the government's actions based upon spurious reasoning.

Patricia WA

31/10/2011Front page seems to be down. Came in via Archive again, then to Batwoman thread. I want to get this in first up. I think it's really important. Interesting query at Pollbludger about the welfare of animals in transit with Qantas over the weekend. One well worth making a fuss about. See this one from [i]Puff, the Magic Dragon. Posted Monday, October 31, 2011 at 3:28 pm | Permalink[/i]at Comment 158. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2011/10/31/essential-research-55-45-to-coalition-3/comment-page-4/#comments

nasking

31/10/2011[quote]you produce such a great line of waffle it could be the start of a new career.[/quote] LOL Jason. That's almost as funny as US Republican Herman Cain's 9/9/9 plan. Have you seen his latest ad w/ his campaign manager smoking whilst Herman gives this chesire cat grin like he just gave it yer partner? On NBC Meet the Press today Tom Brokaw got stuck into the tobacco promotion: "...maybe 9/9/9 stands for 9 mths to live with lung cancer... 9 mths to live with emphysema...and 9 mths to live with coronary heart disease." Indeed. Responsible guy Cain...but hey, when ya wanna win over those Independents who luv to crave the wild side, the easy ride & dream of Deadwood...I guess ya gotta turn yer principles off and go w/ instinct. Perhaps Cain & his campaign dude can visit the cancer wards & help pick up the wild side/easy rider pieces on the highways of hell once they lose the Republican campaign and realise that sporting a moral age of thirteen years old might come in handy winning over a few 1970s adolescents throwin' abuse and popcorn at each other in a screening of The Warriors... but it ain't gonna cut it in the long run in a country goin' bankrupt in the healthcare area...wakin' up to the fact that relyin' on cancer stick revenue instead of helpin' beat the habit is a tickin' time bomb far worse than anythin' Al-qaeda could invent. N'

Patricia WA

31/10/2011Something else struck me watching Question Time. The LOTO and his mates were so stuck with their pre-scripted questions; particularly re very public forewarnings from State Liberal premiers and himself, the attempts to have 'abortive' third hand calls registered to the PM via other ministers, and the repeated but vaguely dire warnings from Joyce to Minister Albanese about more and more 'groundings' and 'inconvenience to the public' etc. It all smacked to me of an elaborate sort of entrapment plan, organised pre-CHOGM, with follow-up Gotcha questions scripted, rehearsed, and so thoroughly internalised that they still got trotted out today7 when it was obvious none of it had all fallen flat, backfired even. I wonder what those Chinese gentlemen made of it all in the Visitors Gallery. I wonder if they found it nearly as enthralling and amusing as I did. The Prime Minister is clearly our No. 1 politician in terms of intellect and debating skills. Her drive and resilience are remarkable in view of all that's she recently done on behalf of the nation.

Patricia WA

31/10/2011Something else struck me watching Question Time. The LOTO and his mates were so stuck with their pre-scripted questions; particularly re very public forewarnings from State Liberal premiers and himself, the attempts to have 'abortive' third hand calls registered to the PM via other ministers, and the repeated but vaguely dire warnings from Joyce to Minister Albanese about more and more 'groundings' and 'inconvenience to the public' etc. It all smacked to me of an elaborate sort of entrapment plan, organised pre-CHOGM, with follow-up Gotcha questions scripted, rehearsed, and so thoroughly internalised that they still got trotted out today7 when it was obvious none of it had all fallen flat, backfired even. I wonder what those Chinese gentlemen made of it all in the Visitors Gallery. I wonder if they found it nearly as enthralling and amusing as I did. The Prime Minister is clearly our No. 1 politician in terms of intellect and debating skills. Her drive and resilience are remarkable in view of all that's she recently done on behalf of the nation.

jane

31/10/2011[quote]I can't decide whether Tom of Melbourne is a Right Wing Industrial Warrior, hell bent on advocating government by Ministerial fiat and business practice by dictat, or a Stalinist Socialist Big Government Interventionist? Or a Right Wing Troll simply parroting the Opposition's talking points without understanding the law behind them.[/quote] Or just a complete wanker, FS? Patricia I came in through the archives, too. Thanks for the tip. The welfare of animals transported by air is of great concern, I trust the ghastly Mr Joyce would have thought of them and made sure that vets were on standby. Better still to arrange accommodation at reputable kennels.

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31/10/2011TT I sent my submission to the Media Inquiry this afternoon. Thanks for the reminder.

Patricia WA

31/10/2011jane and AA - nice to be here with you! Norman K's lead to the Drysdale article is a gem. I loved this bit about her handling of the Qantas dispute. [b][quote]Her actions, words and demeanour were that of a Leader on top of her job.[/quote][/b] I'm starting a collection of these! And their source!

Per Ardua

31/10/2011Laura Tingle has had enough. http://www.afr.com/p/national/politics/pm_not_taking_any_prisoners_waPlXeWQYEe7wwjlPvkr0N

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31/10/2011Patricia WA Thank you for the warning about [i]TPS[/i] front page being inaccessible again. Web Monkey has fixed it, and has taken preventive action; hopefully it will not return. The problem is that while the page is open on a computer, it works normally, but when one tries to open [i]TPS de novo[/i] access is not possible.

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31/10/2011Per Ardua Thank you. What a balanced piece by Laura Tingle! I think she sees what many of us are seeing - Julia Gillard growing in stature and authority by the day.

Feral Skeleton

31/10/2011Ad Astra, I will leave the decision up to you, as I do not wish to be seen as being dictatorial and heavy-handed by deciding to remove it myself, however, I would appreciate it if you could adjudicate on the appropriateness of the most recent comment by 'Sir Ian Crisp', the most recent and extremely personally-hurtful in a series which has become more and more so over the last few days, which suggests that I should be admitted as an Inpatient to my local area Psychiatric Clinic, Mandala, and thus whether it should be removed. Of course I understand that by making my request to you public here, he will no doubt in future comments seek to characterise your decision to remove it, should that be what you decide to do, as a case of playing favourites with your pet. However, I just wanted others here to know how much those sort of comments actually hurt me, and that I requested you to do it, not that you independently decided to do it. If that is what you do. I find it especially hurtful for him to say that about me because I am presently having to deal with my son's best friend just having been a patient in this very institution as a result of schizophrenic psychosis. I don't know who 'Sir Ian Crisp' is, but he contributes nothing to the debates here at The Political Sword, and seems to like nothing more than kicking people who he perceives to be lesser mortals than he. Which is typical of an Imperialist I guess.

Sir Ian Crisp

31/10/2011J guy, my waffle is not a bad dish. I also whip up a mean lemon meringue pie. FS, don't dish dirt and you won't have to cop it returned to you.

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31/10/2011[b]Political Sword Media Mash Another Shanahan Classic[/b] [i]Another quandary trips up Canberra[/i] by Dennis Shanahan, [i]The Australian[/i] October 31, 2011 
www.theaustralian.com.au/.../story-e6frgd0x-1226180911998 

 “[i]Julia Gillard has been caught in yet another crisis not of her doing and with limited ability to act decisively as the economy is damaged and public confidence undermined. 

Yet again, the Prime Minister has been pitch-forked into trouble without warning, under-prepared, lacking a fallback position and ill-served by some of her colleagues. 

This government seems endlessly capable of assuming things will turn out right and not being prepared when the worst-case scenario eventuates.”[/i] [b]Dennis, what is this ‘limited ability’? Julia Gillard could have ended the dispute off her own bat or asked Fair Work Australia to do so immediately. She chose the latter in order to avoid any unforeseen legal action in a yet untested clause in the Fair Work Act that could have prolonged the dispute. What other ‘ability’ should she have had? Then to add to your usual theme of incompetence and unpreparedness you accuse her and her ministers of just that. Yet today we hear of repeated contact between government ministers and the parties to the dispute and a clear understanding by the ministers of the possibilities and the possible remedies. So Dennis you were wrong to so accuse them, wrong again.[/b] “[i}While Gillard acted determinedly once the trigger of "damage to the national economy" had been pulled, she has been reluctant about becoming involved in a dispute that involves some of the most influential unions -- when she is weak and needs to shore up her leadership. Gillard didn't even use rhetorical pressure or moral persuasion on Qantas or the unions, while her Workplace Relations Minister, Chris Evans, government involvement. 

This reticence to even express a view came as the travelling public, Qantas shareholders and the tourism industry became increasingly frustrated and fearful of a destructive and cynical union campaign that threatened to bleed Qantas to death.”[/i] [b]Dennis, you attribute her unwillingness to become personally involved early in the dispute to a disinclination to upset unions that you claim she relies on for support. Are you sure of your grounds for saying this or are you wrong again? My impression is that she wanted Fair Work Australia to do the work it was designed to do and invoked its involvement only when the criterion of potential ‘damage to the economy’ was met. This is how it is supposed to work, but of course unsurprisingly you preferred to infer a more sinister reason for the PM’s actions. You didn’t surprise us.[/b] [i]“When Qantas responded and grounded its fleet to bring the dispute to a head and force the government to intervene it was as if it hadn't been considered as a possibility. 

The government's public responses reflected old union loyalties, uncertainty about the Fair Work Act and a failure to grasp the real financial threat.”[/i] [b]By now Dennis you must know you were wrong again!
 Ministers were well aware of the situation and the options.[/b] “[i]It's true Qantas also used cynical and hardline tactics in the dispute and may have done itself harm with the travelling public with its sudden grounding, but more than two weeks ago Tourism Minister Martin Ferguson raised the prospect of government intervention to settle a dispute that was threatening Qantas and the tourism industry. 

Given Qantas was thinking about grounding its fleet for a while, why did no one in the government consider this a possibility without being told - just as they seemed incapable of imagining a High Court defeat on offshore processing of asylum-seekers. It's probably because the government spends too much time dealing with each crisis. Well, now there's another one.'[/i] [b]Again, by now you will be aware of the disparity between what Alan Joyce said he had told government ministers, and what they recount he said. This morning he was already backing away from his insinuation that he had told ministers that grounding the fleet was imminent, to saying that he told them it was a possibility down the line if the dispute dragged on. Yet he gave the Government only a few hours notice of what he had already determined to do. He wanted the element of surprise and shock, so was unlikely to signal his intent. You were working on hearsay and incorrect information, but that did not concern you since you wanted to lampoon PM Gillard again, so why worry about whether the information was correct. I doubt that you will be embarrassed at publishing yet again a poor piece riddled with assumptions and assertions unfavourable to PM Gillard who in your book can get nothing right. I hope you will be more careful next time, but come to think of it, I doubt it.[/b]

Feral Skeleton

31/10/2011Sir Ian Crisp, That is a very feeble justification for a very cruel and hurtful insult. Please explain, for information purposes, where I have 'dished the dirt' in an equivalently personally and publically humiliating way to you? So that I may amend my behaviour in future and not cause you a similar amount of pain and heartache which you allude to my having caused you.

Feral Skeleton

31/10/2011Must read: http://captainturtle.blogspot.com/2011/10/me-at-rsl-agm.html?showComment=1320053545358#c5657623057448567514

Feral Skeleton

31/10/2011Nasking, I think you'll like this: :) http://www.thechristianleftblog.org/1/post/2011/08/the-enemies-within-the-20-most-dangerous-conservatives-and-their-organizations.html

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31/10/2011FS I haven't been watching what Sir Ian has been up to. I find his offerings boring, cryptic and at times hurtful. His reference to psychiatric care is a reflection of his strange way of thinking, not a reflection on you. It's deleted.

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31/10/2011Sir Ian If I see another offensive reference to FS or anyone else coming from you, I will delete it as soon as i see it. As I don't sit get all day waiting for your offerings, which I find unutterably boring, you may get some exposure before being deleted. I wonder at the nature of your mind that you find is suitable to make remarks that question another's mental state. But whatever motivates you, be aware your unpleasant remarks will not be tolerated here. Most of us would be pleased if you never appeared here again. Your contributions consistently fail to advance the discourse here. You are a serial pest.

Sir Ian Crisp

31/10/2011And I suppose this 'advances the discourse' [quote][i]Meh. Who needs your aprobation? You're just another sneering elitist. They're a dime a dozen these days. That's the problem. Feral Skelton. [/i] [/quote] Will the above 'contribution' by FS be deleted as well? FS, you do not cause me pain and heartache with your special brand of charientism. I might take this chance to repeat my warning to you: I am a strange sort of person because when provoked I strike back. So fire away FS but be prepared to get it thrown back at you. You might stop puling because it doesn’t fit your well crafted image of a progressive trained in the rough and tough ALP world.

Feral Skeleton

31/10/2011Sir Ian Crisp, You are not the only one who is a fighter. Might I just state that, as a justification for the comment you made about me today here, that example quoted above is massively disproportionate in scale. Still, Conservatives are not known for fighting fair, otherwise they'd never win any of their battles. Might I also note also that the example you quote was completely decontextualised. Typical Tory tactic again. So you loathe the ALP and anyone who associates themselves with it publically, even though you wouldn't know them from Adam in the street. So we get that already. Now, how about an actual argument, based upon verifiable evidence? Or are you forever going to be just another Right Wing Pre-Copernican Obscurantist? Without an argument to bless themselves with?

Jason

31/10/2011Sir Ian, Gee you do angry well! I can just see it stamping your feet,rolling on the floor yelling out to your "nanny" that those "lefties" were picking on you again! Maybe it's time to go back to a page more suited to you such as http://www.nickjr.com.au/ Enjoy

jane

31/10/2011FS, the Christian right. What a bunch of monsters. I just love the idiots who don't support vaccination. They should all be bundled off to a countries rife with disease without vaccinations and see how long they hold these beliefs. Apart from that, the most striking things about these creatures is that their beliefs are so totally contrary to the teachings of Christ. He would certainly be tarred and feathered and run out of out of any churches they infest! They and their supporters should not only have to work with people suffering diabolical diseases without vaccination, but should be made to live the lives of the poor and desperate and just for good measure be on the receiving end of their draconian ideas.

NormanK

1/11/2011[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]Bringing civility back to the parliamentary cockfight Tony Kevin Eureka Street[/i] Last week, chatting with the Queen at Government House, Tony Abbott commented that in Australia, we play our politics tough. Certainly, Abbott seems to: he remarked, testing the boundaries of how to converse with royals, that the Queen had outlasted many Australian prime ministers and might get to outlast a few more yet. The Queen replied diplomatically that minority government must present special problems. http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=28764 [i]USA Science in decline and fall by Peter Aldhous (3 graphics) Resources for a Sustainable Future (from New Scientist)[/i] New Scientist Science in America: Decline and fall.The US is the most powerful scientific nation on Earth and yet the status of science in public life has never been so low. Why? http://www.350resources.org.uk/2011/10/28/usa-science-in-decline-and-fall-by-peter-aldhous/ [i]Why Fair Work Australia terminated the Qantas industrial action Shae McCrystal The Conversation[/i] The decision by Fair Work Australia (FWA) to terminate industrial action between Qantas and three unions has delivered a more certain future for this protracted dispute, setting a timeline for conciliation and possible arbitration. http://theconversation.edu.au/why-fair-work-australia-terminated-the-qantas-industrial-action-4092 [i]Fair Work Australia decision reveals the flaw in Qantas' strategy David Peetz[/i] The Fair Work Australia (FWA) decision on the Qantas industrial dispute makes it clear the action by the three unions was not enough to trigger a decision by FWA to terminate the bargaining periods. http://theconversation.edu.au/fair-work-australia-decision-reveals-the-flaw-in-qantas-strategy-4091 [i]Qantas and corporate greed Shaun Newman Independent Australia[/i] The Qantas actions recently have reminded me of how the mindset of the rich and powerful and their servants within the Liberal Party and, in Queensland, the LNP think. The action of grounding a fleet of aircraft worldwide, rather than negotiating an industrial agreement with their workforce, is just the sensationalised and sometimes outrageous way these people actually think ..... http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/politics/qantas-and-corporate-greed/ [i]To which victor the Qantas spoils? Rob Burgess Business Spectator[/i] So the big news about the effectiveness, or otherwise, of the Fair Work Act in settling large-scale industrial relations disputes of this kind, won’t come until either the parties actually find the middle ground themselves, or have it imposed by binding arbitration. http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Qantas-Fair-Work-Australia-decision-strikes-indust-pd20111031-N5S7M?OpenDocument&emcontent_Burgess [i]The remorseless logic and profound disdain of Alan Joyce Bernard Keane Crikey[/i] In short, Joyce’s argument that the unions’ campaign forced Qantas’s hand has been found to be false by Fair Work Australia. There was the prospect of a negotiated outcome, and the unions’ campaigns were not threatening significant damage either to wider industry or (and this appears to have been missed) to Qantas. http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/10/31/the-remorseless-logic-and-profound-disdain-of-alan-joyce/ [i]Essential Research: 55-45 to Coalition William Bowe The Poll Bludger[/i] The latest weekly Essential Research result has the Coalition’s two-party lead steady on 55-45, although the primary votes suggest Labor would have come very close to gaining a point: their primary vote is up two to 34 per cent, their best result since June, with the Coalition down one to 47 per cent and the Greens down one to 10 per cent. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/ [i]Assange and Bolt, False and Unsound Andrew Elder Politically homeless[/i] There are threats to the balance between our liberties and our social cohesion all the time. What won't and can't help protect us from imbalance and injustice are lazy postulations, including that hidey-hole of the intellectual poser who hasn't thought carefully about whatever they claim to be particularly concerned about: the "slippery slope". http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/2011_10_01_archive.html [i]A $400 billion investment boom, never mind the taxes Peter Martin[/i] Today’s Deloitte Access Investment Monitor details a record 935 investment projects planned or underway, each worth $20 million or more. The total value exceeds $894 billion, an increase of 7.5 per cent in the past three months and 16 per cent over the past year. http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/10/400-billion-investment-boom-never-mind.html [i]As Qantas totters a little bit of dinky di Aussie life-saving will fix what ails ya ... Dorothy Parker Loon Pond[/i] After a ritual bashing of pilots, and of Qantas International, and of Tony Sheldon, and of the Fair Work Act, Sheehan then discovers that in a domestic context Virgin is unionised and at industrial peace with its staff while paying relatively similar rates ... http://loonpond.blogspot.com/ [i]Ten years on: The SIEV X tragedy and the assault on democratic rights Socialist Equality Party (Australia) World Socialist Web Site[/i] Despite the almost total media blackout of the 10th anniversary of the drowning on October 19, 2001 of 353 refugees who were trying to reach Australia in an over-crowded boat, the political stench has not diminished. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/oct2011/siev-o31.shtml [i]Siemens' Crystal vision Sophie Vorrath Climate Spectator[/i] Just in case anyone thought Siemens wasn't committed enough to the advancement of clean technology, the German engineering and technology giant is building a monument to it in the heart of London. Officially named the "Crystal" in a ceremony last week, the £30 million structure will be built in East London as part of Siemens’ sustainable cities initiative. http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/cleantech-buzz-siemens-crystal-vision [i]Monday’s Experts Dave Gaukroger Pure Poison[/i] Monday’s Experts,
Always know what’s best,
Always tell you what you should’ve done.
Monday’s Experts,
Always know what’s cooking,
How the game was lost and how it could’ve been won. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/10/31/mondays-experts/ [i]Further Liberal hypocrisy on the NBN Renai LeMay Delimiter[/i] It seems Liberal MPs all around Australia just can’t stop demanding that the National Broadband Network be rolled out in their area. The Federal Member for Farrer in rural NSW/Victoria, Sussan Ley, is the latest to come to the party. http://delimiter.com.au/2011/10/31/further-liberal-hypocrisy-on-the-nbn/

psyclaw

1/11/2011FS (yesterday 5.23pm) Have you heard anyone even raise the issue of s240. This allows one party to a stalling negotiation to take their frustration to FWA, where an order such as the current one would likely be given. Why didn't Joyce just initiate FWA involvement himself? Why did he choose the shut down route? More to the point, why has no-one in the MSM explored this even as a possible action? They've been so happy to discuss the reviewable s431 which Abbott says was the way to go. This suggests that Joyce's agenda is wider than the dispute and that he's prepared to gamble with Qantas ..... a bit like Abbott who gambles daily with the national interest in pursuit of his personal wants. What was Joyce really after? A place in IR history like Reith? Damage to the government? Trying to "do" the specific unions slowly? Trying to be the vanguard of a wider "smash the unions" campaign? Trying to prove FWA Act won't work? I wonder if he's actually trying to raise IR as an issue in the next election? if so, good! I doubt it's in Abbott's interests to have IR as a top issue. Joyce appears to be one of those corporate upstart "whiz kids" of the last couple of decades ..... come in, shake the crap out of an entity for a couple of years, then move on quickly to another needy target.

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1/11/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Michael

1/11/2011In Ancient Greece, anyone with the desire to know something of the future could visit the Delphic Oracle for a little farseeing advice. The problem was that the Oracle always spoke in something so close to gibberish that her prognostications had to be interpreted by others... and each of those others most often came up with completely contradictory interpretations. Equally valuable, equally worthless, depending on what the visitor had come (and indeed, paid) to hear. But, at core, the Delphic Oracle always uttered gibberish. Now, I don't know if The Australian newspaper columnist Niki Savva's family traces back to the Greek site Delphi, but from her utterances below, I'm prepared to lay a drachma or two on the notion that they do. Crisis puts fizz back in leadership talk by: Niki Savva From: The Australian November 01, 2011 WHILE Labor MPs ponder if, when and with whom to end the Gillard experiment, Tony Abbott seems determined to erase traces of her existence as Prime Minister. If Abbott is elected, there will be little left of her prime ministership, other than its rugged existence as a minority government, the Gillard name in the history books as the first woman in the job and the Fair Work Act. Abbott has promised to reverse the carbon tax, the Mining Resources Rent Tax, and mandatory precommitment for poker machines. His macho approach screeches to a halt at industrial relations. He draws the line at waking the dead. Having declared Work Choices dead, buried and cremated at the last election, and ruling out all but the most minimal changes to Labor's replacement legislation, it is definitely in Abbott's interests to see the Qantas dispute resolved under the existing legislation, while still blaming Gillard for not employing its provisions sooner. Free trial Abbott argues it is not the laws that are deficient, but those who administer them; and he will use the dispute and its aftermath to stave off pressure from his back bench, the wider Liberal Party and business community to stop being a wimp on industrial relations. His prodders counter that under Work Choices it would never have reached this point. The unions are bolder, and their demands grow ever more unreasonable. In fact, the government could have intervened earlier, at least with concerted public jawboning. Instead we had a nothing-to-see-here, folks, kind of approach in the face of the slow crippling of a vital cog in the national economy, again, the wrong way to handle a situation obviously headed for disaster. Publicly, however, the Prime Minister, Wayne Swan, and the Invisible Industrial Relations Minister, Senator Whatshisname, stayed aloof. One who did not was the Tourism Minister, and former ACTU president, Martin Ferguson, after engineers told customers not to book with Qantas. On the rare occasions since the dispute began in August, when the Prime Minister was asked about it, she made brief, anodyne appeals to the parties to work it out. Calls by premiers for action were dismissed as a stunt, and as late as Friday, when Abbott interrupted her appearances on the world stage with a pesky plea for intervention, she remained determinedly passive. She said she was relying on briefings from relevant ministers, adding: "I believe Australians expect the parties to this dispute to get it resolved and get it fixed." Indeed they did. They also expected her, as Prime Minister, to ensure it was fixed, and before a catastrophic climax that threatens to leave Qantas damaged, perhaps irreparably. Even the opposition industrial relations spokesman, Eric Abetz, managed to criticise both sides in a press release on Friday. He observed that "calls by the unions to boycott Qantas have simply injected an unnecessary element into the dispute as has the Qantas executive pay increase." The Prime Minister could have said the same, with more gusto. She could have given Alan Joyce a clip around the ears, told the unions to stop playing silly buggers and called them together. She did none of those things. Yesterday, her claims that legal uncertainty prevented the use of Section 431 to terminate the dispute, sounded lame. If it is too dubious to be used when circumstances warrant, it should be removed or rewritten. For once, forgo the bluster, the dismissal of legitimate questions as silly, the blame-shifting to Joyce and Qantas and the claims of victory amid smouldering wreckage. Until this crisis, some of the fizz had gone out of the Labor leadership speculation, thanks to the Queen's visit, the CHOGM, an improvement in Labor's two-party-preferred vote, a marginal increase in Gillard's approval ratings, plus a slide in Abbott's. The Qantas debacle, following Kevin Rudd's refusal, twice in two days, to endorse the government's policy on mandatory precommitment, are keeping it aerated. Rudd knows, as does Abbott, that precommitment could force MPs in vulnerable NSW seats, to focus on their future and who might best secure it. Abbott wants an early election, but he doesn't want to fight it against Rudd, so his pledge to vote against the tax does not help Rudd. Rudd betrayed his reliance on the issue by refusing to comment on something he was once so passionate about, with the implausible excuse it was outside his portfolio responsibilities. A simple "I support the government's policy" would have killed it off. Except he doesn't want to kill off the issue; he wants to kill off the Prime Minister. Gillard is bound by her agreement with Tasmanian independent Andrew Wilkie to legislate for mandatory precommitment by May next year. The timing could suit Rudd. Labor MPs have only days to decide if they want to remove Gillard, replace her with Rudd and take early advantage of his second honeymoon for an election this year. The two events must come together in a compact timeframe. Even those who believe Rudd is the only realistic alternative agree that he cannot afford too much separation between installation and election. They dread the prospect that a recycled Rudd would quickly remind voters why they went off him the first time. Assuming anybody can control a leadership challenge, given all the emotions attached to it, the reluctant Ruddites are leaning towards a swap and an election early next year. Rudd could race off to the polls in March or April, before the Wilkie deadline, which would also be before the introduction of the carbon tax. That carries its own risks: does he dare go to an election asking for a mandate to introduce it while Abbott seeks a mandate to rescind it? He could conceivably run a simultaneous plebiscite on the carbon tax, giving voters the option of voting for him and against the tax. What if it got really weird and people voted yes on the carbon tax and Abbott won election? But I digress. If Labor MPs wait too long into next year, they run the risk the Wilkie proposal will get up, despite Abbott's opposition. Also the longer they leave it the greater the potential for other issues to be handled with trademark dexterity. It will damage them all, including Rudd, even more. They have a lot to think about and not much time to do it in. (By the by, the recaptcha code is 'softhd called' - "softhead called". Is that English for "Niki Savva"?)

2353

1/11/2011psyclaw - Joyce & Clifford have gone down in Australia's IR history. You're correct that there were plenty of other ways to address the issues without stuffing up the plans of thousands. (In comparison, the Union campaign was delaying thousands - but at least they got to the other end.) Qantas will not get all it wants out of this - neither will the unions. While the institutional investors may think the lockout was a good idea - I wonder if Qantas (and Jetstar) will make it's 100th birthday.

Feral Skeleton

1/11/2011Psyclaw, A simple answer to your questions is, 'All of the above'. Plus, the fact that Conservatives love the Nuclear Option. If they can throw a hand grenade into the Industrial Relations tent, they will. To strangulate a metaphor, it then throws a cat among the pigeons, or in this case the IR Doves, and sees plenty of blood and fur fly. Incrementalism isn't their thing. However, Alan Joyce and the Board of Qantas, which is chockas with IR Warriors from the Howard/Reith era(thanks go to Socrates at 'the other place' for the breakdown): [quote]Socrates Posted Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 8:01 am | Permalink Interesting that this action was approved by the Qantas Board. Who are the Qantas Board? See them here: http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/board-of-directors/global/en A fairly anti-union group. Note the following about this quite narrow group: * Leigh Clifford, AO – ex Rio Tinto director * Alan Joyce – current CEO a mathematician * General Peter Cosgrove, AC, MC – ex Army * Patricia Cross – ex NAB exec & BNP director * Richard Goodmanson – Rio Tinto director * Garry Hounsell – Freehills Lawyers director & former Arthur Andersen exec :D * Corinne Namblard – French ex BNP banker * Paul Rayner – Boral director; ex British American Tobacco accountant * Dr John Schubert, AO – BHP Billiton director * James Strong, AO – ex CEO & lawyer * Barbara Ward, AM – ex Ansett CEO and Allco director Note the inter-connectedness of the board: all the ex Bankers worked in the same banks (NAB or BNP). The business execs directed Rio Tinto and BHPB. The IR lawyer directs Freehills, Rio’s law firm in the contract labor dispute. So half the Qantas board has been involved in former union busting attempts. This board might as well have been handpicked by John Howard.[/quote] One can imagine that they are relishing the fight they have begun, and what with, 25 lawyers from WorkChoices-era Law firms, on the case, I can imagine they are playing to win this battle, with an eye on the future immediately after the elevation of an Abbott government(or so they think and hope), as it will lay out the parameters of how far they can go, generally, in the future. However, they may have bitten off more than they can chew and overplayed their hand somewhat, as they have now given the government reasonable cause to tweak the Fair Work Act, with the support of The Greens. The other Cross-Benchers, I'm not so sure about. It is in the news today that Ed Husic is going to introduce an Amendment to the Act to penalise business in the same way Unions & workers can be penalised, for Wildcat Industrial Action, such as Qantas pulled over the weekend. That's one thing. Another is coming out of the Transport Minister's office and is along the lines of allowing a Free Market :D on all routes, in and around Australia and overseas. No more government protection for Qantas, just throw them to the wolves, if that's the way they want to behave to the government that protects their routes by legislation now. Why should a government protect a company which doesn't even want to employ Australians, and doesn't want to pay Australian rates of pay to those Aussies it still does employ? Suffice to say, this battle will be won in court of public opinion, and so far, Qantas' efforts have been ham-fisted at best.

Feral Skeleton

1/11/2011jane, I think those members of the Christian Right, who have more in common with Stalin's pogroms, given half a chance at getting their hands on the reigns of power, should therefore be bundled up and sent to a Siberian Gulag, a la Alexander Solzhenitsyn's 'A Day In the Life of Ivan Denisovich'. Which is approximately what they'd be happy to condemn the godless masses to without a second thought.

Michael

1/11/2011I owe a deep apology to Niki Savva. Another Greek-extraction woman, our Sophie of the Spirits, Mirabella, bella bella, has just proven Niki is 'Einstein' compared to her. Note the headline. http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/hey-sheep-joyce-is-just-a-scapegoat/?from=scroller&pos=4&referrer=article&link=text

nasking

1/11/2011Feral, I think it was on NBC's Meet the Press a couple of weeks ago I heard Herman Cain say the supreme court judge he respected/related to was Clarence Thomas...I wonder why? :) And it ain't just to do w/ skin colour: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Thomas Here's Cain spewing hyperbole Tea Party style: [b]Herman Cain tells Meet the Press liberals are destroying the country[/b] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf4eQZwA3Ls&feature=related I see, so contrary to what we saw over here in Australia clear as a bell, Tea party Republicans taking their economy to the brink of destruction over the "debt ceiling" debate and blocking all of Obama's job growth plans...and some big banks & corporations keepin' their mega-profits to themselves or investin' offshore instead of creatin' jobs & providin' loans to individuals & small businesses...it's really the Liberals who are destroyin' the economy. I reckon Cain is either one of the most deceitful candidates around these days...or half of his brain shrivelled to the size of a peanut and dropped out his right ear due to over-consumption of takeaway pizzas. Not surprising Newt Gingrich is on the way up. N'

TalkTurkey

1/11/2011 I agree with Feral Skeleton about this personal account. Read it to the end, it shows the frightening malevolent mindless face of the kind of hateful mob being urged on by shock-jocks and the Abbortt Right. http://captainturtle.blogspot.com/2011/10/me-at-rsl-agm.html?showComment=1320053545358#c5657623057448567514 And the Qantas Board has virtually tried on declaring War on the Government. Along with Miners, No-Carbon-Taxers, Stop-the-NBNers, Turn-the-Boat-Arounders, the Shockjocks, the Clubbies, the God-Botherers, the Right-to-Lifers, the Burn-the-Witchers, and all the others Jason couldn't think of. And you know what? They got no more chance than Black Caviar in the Cup. And she's not running. But they are a deadly presence just the same. The only reason they won't win is because we will. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ad astra I'm very pleased that you too fronted a submission to the Media Enquiry; it is funful to think of the Enquirers comparing your submission with my sorta eulogistic mention of you in mine. I do think I have read that they don't intend to reply to submitters, did you see that? Anyway they could only do themselves a favour, in terms of street cred with all of us, by proactively contacting you. I am sure many Swordsfolks, and I would hope simpatico bloggers everywhere, would applaud. (I would welcome a Hello from them too.) Folks it's too late now for anybody else to front a submission, but I've prevailed on the Enquirers, via my own submission, to view this whole site, archived and current, as a sincere and proactive ongoing super-submission. So if you were to write even one little complementary note here in the next couple of days I reckon it might get noticed. And that would be good. Because it seems to me that the Media Enquiry is potentially the very cutting edge of what we on TPS, Ad astra in particular, are working to hone all the time.

Feral Skeleton

1/11/2011Nasking, And exactly how have 'the Liberals' destroyed America? Last time I looked all 'the Liberals' wanted was a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, so they could go out and spend it at the Capitalists' Mega Malls; an environment that hadn't been trashed and turned to slag; a few animals left behind to appreciate and not shoot for sport, and, for the Liberal Women, the ability to control their bodies themselves.

Feral Skeleton

1/11/2011Michael, No 'Delphic Oracle' about the Niki Savva piece in The Austrollian, I'm calling BULLSHIT on it from top to bottom. I wasn't going to say anything about the 'Leadership Speculation' subject, and, actually, that is the only thing that the epitome of a female scrotum got right, the speculation IS dying off, as THERE IS NO LEADERSHIP CHALLENGE BEING MOUNTED BY KEVIN RUDD, there is no number-crunching in the corridors of power, there is no duchessing of Labor MPs in marginal seats in NSW and Queensland, especially wrt Problem Gambling/Poker Machine policy. It is all simply a Canberra Press Gallery confection by a bunch of self-interested 'journalists', and I use that term loosely. About as loose as they are being with the truth. Honestly, I don't know why people who support the Gillard Government give 'lying scrags' like Niki Savva, the time of day,let alone any credence wrt the destabilising propaganda she spews out via her weekly efforts to prop up the weakly-performing Opposition. I have it on the best authority, and, on Melbourne Cup Day, can I just say, 'Direct from the Horse's Mouth', there is no Kevin Rudd/Julia Gillard 'Leadership Challenge'. Kevin Rudd is deliriously happy being Foreign Minister. He wants to see the Problem Gambling legislation, which he set the ball rolling on, through the parliament. It has his full and fulsome support. As does the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard. Get it? Got it? Right. Can that be the last word about the Kevin Rudd 'Leadership Challenge'? Just ignore the Liberal Party smoke and mirrors reported in The Liberal Party Daily. I have gone to the heart of the government for the truth and got it. I have given it to you here. That is all you need to know. Don't believe the hype!

jane

1/11/2011FS,agreed. They'd get plenty of very nasty communicable diseases in the gulag and no vaccinations. Wouldn't that be sad? And I reckon I can think of a few more candidates. Slagabella would have to be close to top of the list. Am I being paranoid or does Alan Joyce bear a striking resemblance to Godwin Grech and does the Qantas affair have a distinct stench of emailgate? This is another Liars Party-Ltd News attempt to unseat the government, without doubt. I'm sure this time they think they've covered their arses, but as they couldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery, I reckon this could bite them on the bum big time. We have Ltd News and Joyce lying about timelines and phone calls and all the bullshit about Gillard's supposed failure to implement s431 which the Human Headline is spruiking. All of which leads me to believe that Ltd news is providing ample evidence to the media inquiry of their duplicitous behaviour and giving Conroy and the government ample proof (as if they needed any more) that the Murdochracy is unfit to get their claws on ABC News. Hopefully, this could be the double whammy for the government to break Rupert's stranglehold on media in this country. I sincerely hope that the PM is sharpening her boning knife, ready for the kill!

Min

1/11/2011Apologies Nas', am just catching up..sorry to learn of your loss. Huggs to you and S'.

TalkTurkey

1/11/2011A Little Homagenius Jingle for Laura Tingle Tune: Bongo Bongo Bongo (I don't wanna leave the Congo) Andrews Sisters and Danny Kaye!!! :) http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=bongo%20bongo%20bongo%20youtube&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDkQtwIwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbgDF2xfcbv8&ei=f02vTvfROaS6iQec19zaAg&usg=AFQjCNH2npPNWYRRlMl8MQaGawC-wGshLQ Each morning the Murdoch Papers show us a bad headline They say that Gillard is a liar and her awful Government's a-dyin' And shockjocks on radio and even ABC TV Holler that her downfall Is a certainty . . . So, Bangle Bungle Bingle, How we love you Laura Tingle, I'm just letting you know! Mingo Mango Mungo, You're the only one who's Gung-ho When you let it go! You are so Fearless! Gorgeous! Clear-eyed! Decent! When all's said and done, Of all Australian journalists, [i]You're Number One![/i] Return to top and repeat ad infinitum.

2353

1/11/2011FS - I actually got a comment online on the Mirrabella piece that stated the article was bs (and mentioned the appauling treatment of her elderly friend as well). I'm surprised it got past the moderation. I read somewhere this morning that the Government is investigating an open skys policy whereby any airline that meets safety standards will be permitted to fly domestic legs (at the moment they have to be licenced). Mmmm - Qantas or Emerates "economy" from Sydney to Melboure. No choice really is it! Hope it happens, Virgin Australia would cope with the change . . .

NormanK

1/11/2011[b]Abbott sidesteps Qantas questions[/b] AAP [quote]Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has abruptly ended a press conference after reporters quizzed him about what notice his office was given about the Qantas grounding. ********************************** Mr Abbott accused Prime Minister Julia Gillard of "dithering" when the government could have taken matters into its own hands rather than making an application to Fair Work Australia. But Mr Abbott would not say when his office was advised of the grounding, when quizzed by reporters in Canberra on Tuesday.[/quote] http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/abbott-sidesteps-qantas-questions-20111101-1mt8x.html

Jason

1/11/2011Leroy Posted Tuesday, November 1, 2011 at 3:17 pm | Permalink geeksrulz Kinder Gentler Geek Abbott has already signed pledge in blood to rescind Melbourne Cup winner #qt #auspol 21 seconds ago

jane

1/11/2011Ben Eltham's's take on the Qantas affair. http://newmatilda.com/2011/11/01/naked-conflict-between-profits-and-wages

Feral Skeleton

1/11/2011What did they know and when did they know it? http://afr.com/p/national/abbott_sidesteps_qantas_questions_Gsc0KrJPsUX6KKhcerYgpO

Feral Skeleton

1/11/2011Tom of Melbourne, I'd like a grovelling apology please.

Feral Skeleton

1/11/2011Just back from picking up my Winnings from the Melbourne Cup flutter I have once a year. This year, 1st and 3rd, thank you very much mug punters of Australia. :D

psyclaw

1/11/2011An MPI currently underway in Senate: "The Gillard government's inability to govern as it lurches from crisis to crisis". Leading the debate is of course that einstein Abetz. What a total waste of space that mob are and what a total waste of taxpayers $s to have the Senate time wasting on such crap. Their cognitive skills range from the mundane to the inane. Tomorrow they'll be wailing about insufficient time to analyse the Clean Energy and MRRT bills. God help us if they ever gain the right side of the chambers. 2353 My post about Mirabella also got up, along with many others pointing out what a dickhead she is ..... and a malicious one.

jane

1/11/2011[quote]Tom of Melbourne, I'd like a grovelling apology please.[/quote] Good luck, FS. Didn't you know ToM never has to apologise because he's never wrong! Congrats on the Cup collects. This from Matthew Knott: http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/rising-fast/meet-tony-sheldon-alp-national-president-hopeful/20111101642?utm_source=The+Power+Index&utm_campaign=ff267f2b7d-The_Power_Daily_1_Nov_2011&utm_medium=email

Casablanca

1/11/2011PatriciaWA [government is] a task that never ends, and [b]she [Gillard] takes it on with a proper degree of calm reason, empathy, intelligence and perspective.[/b] Just had to repeat those words from the Alister Drysdale article at http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Abbott-Gillard-carbon-tax-CHOGM-Qantas-China-pokie-pd20111031-N5QPB?opendocument&src=rss PWA, they seem eminently suitable for your collection.

jane

1/11/2011Paul Barry's guide to the Qantas dispute. [b]What does Qantas management want? Qantas management wants to slash labour costs, particularly on international routes, where the airline is supposedly losing $200 million a year. It wants to do this in a number of ways. First is to set up a new offshore hub—possibly with a new premium airline—where pay rates would be lower, shifts longer and conditions more "flexible". Qantas has done this already to a degree by employing pilots for its trans-Tasman route in New Zealand and paying them one third less than in Australia. It has also done this with Jetstar flight attendants based in Thailand who face 20-hour shifts, and whose conditions have been criticised as "slave labour".[/b] http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/guidebook/paul-barry-s-guide-to-the-qantas-dispute/20111031632?utm_source=The+Power+Index&utm_campaign=69118d2b5f-The_Power_Daily_28_Oct_2011&

Sir Ian Crisp

1/11/2011[quote] Sir Ian, Gee you do angry well! I can just see it stamping your feet,rolling on the floor yelling out to your "nanny" that those "lefties" were picking on you again! Maybe it's time to go back to a page more suited to you such as http://www.nickjr.com.au/ Enjoy Jason [/quote] Sorry J guy, that site is not on my 'AA approved reading list'. Me upset? Don't you worry your pretty little head about it. Getting into a stoush is water off a duck's back for me.

Feral Skeleton

1/11/2011In the interests of fairness and balance in the debate about what Tony Abbott knew and when did he know it about the Qantas plane grounding on Saturday, I therefore submit this from Malcolm Farr: http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/tony-abbott-faces-serious-questions-on-qantas-lock-out/story-e6frfq80-1226182561133#ixzz1cQ9gXSpw?t=1320122796 However, being told that it has happened, and prior knowledge of the plans for it to happen, are 2 different things.

Feral Skeleton

1/11/2011Here's the latest line by way of justification for Alan Joyce's actions in not telling the government that he was going to ground the fleet(courtesy of Liberal media mouthpiece, Peter Van Onselen): 'Joyce could not be sure the government wouldn't tell the union movement about his intentions' (Pity I don't know how to do one of those eye-rolling emoticons).

nasking

1/11/2011Many thnx Min. I'll pass yer kind words on to S' In regard to this Qantas giant attempting to squash the unions & workers by such a drastic measure...and the Coalition opportunistically gettin' in there and tryin' to blame the government...all planned I reckon, as do many others...it has made me even more wary of right-wing parties... My wife & I were considering voting for the LNP after our Green vote in the QLD state election...not because Premier Anna Bligh has done a bad job, in fact she has been efficient and during the floods was everything we needed in a leader...but as we are keen on a robust [i]democracy[/i] we felt that maybe it was time for a change...and we don't mind Campbell Newman. However, this latest attempt by the federal Coalition, who have mates in the QLD party, to crush unions & workers' rights which has damaged an important Aussie brand, stranded & inconvenienced passengers & looked like a crazy, Tea Party-style attempt to damage the economy & put the blame on Labor has put us right off any party associated w/ those freaks. We can imagine what they'd try to do to the education department, teachers & their union. Scary stuff. So we won't be voting LNP 2nd preference now. Tony Abbott & his loony cronies have worked w/ their corporate masters to put the fear of WorkChoices & other extreme anti-union, anti-worker measures into the hearts of many voters now. Even my mother, a dyed in the wool conservative, was disgusted...and she thinks it was planned...and that Alan Joyce should go. I might add, remembering from last week the immature & ocker approach of some LNP members regarding gay marriage (pretend kisses on camera etc.) is just another nail in the LNP coffin for us voting-wise. The last thing we want is another ocker boys dominated QLD, the stupid & immature state...cowboys oneday, dickheads the next. N'

jane

1/11/2011FS, I think it sticks out like the proverbial that Liealot was fully briefed. The entire thing has been scripted to make Liealot look like he knows what he's doing. However, it does appear that he knew well before the government, that Joyce was going to ground Qantas and chose to say nothing. However those masters of distortion, deception, innuendo and mendacity at Ltd News try to spin it, Liealot will not come out of this untarnished.

nasking

1/11/2011Feral, thnx for the Abbott related link...I noticed he said he didn't hear about the proposed grounding until 4:45pm & if he'd known why would he have booked him & his family on a Qantas flight for Sunday arvo. That's got me even more suspicious. It's just the kind of thing a crim would do in order to say "I knew nothin', check my booking"... I just don't trust Abbott...he's always cookin' up or part of these tricky campaigns...ever since he came into politics we've seen one rotten campaign after another (remember his journo/media connections back then)... I reckon the whole One Nation saga was partly planned by him in order to shift the Coalition further to the right...even the Tampa business reminds me of somethin' he'd come up w/ and his allies...a word in Howard's ear. This Qantas stuff has Rodent & Mad Monk's & usual suspect media prints all over it...and Reith...and their think tanks & lawyers. They're bad seeds. I hope investigative journos recognise the patterns...and dig dig dig until the past nigh on 2 decades of rotten roots are exposed. N'