Strutting the catwalk in Carbon Alley

Life used to be simple in Carbon Alley.

The Fat Cats, Gina ‘Ginger Mog’ Rinehart, and Clive ‘Cheshire Cat’ Palmer, have been running the place, aided and abetted by their cronies, Officers Dibble (Tony Abbott) and Dribble (David Bushby).

However, many of the alley cats, led by TC (Julia ‘Top Cat’ Gillard) and her intrepid band, consisting of Spook (Peter Garrett), Benny (Wayne Swan) and Chooch (Penny Wong), are arching their backs and beginning to assert themselves.



Up to now, the Fat Cats have been running Carbon Alley as they see fit. They have been digging up the alley and sending the stuff off to the Chinese Dragon Li cats who live in an alley way up north of the metropolis. The Fat Cats have also had the monopoly on installing coal-burning braziers in the alley, to warm the joint up, at a price, during the cold weather.

However, between the unsightly and dangerous holes all over the place, and the choking smog from the coal-fired braziers, the alley has become a not-very-nice place in which to live.

So, TC and her friends have decided to try to do something about it. But the Fat Cats’ henchmen, Officers Dibble and Dribble, are doing their best to thwart any progress. They cycle into Carbon Alley and dismount.

Dibble: Right TC...you can hold it right there...what’s that you’re installing on the lids of the alley cats’ bins?

TC: Why, Officer Dibble! What a tremendous honour, sir, to have you grace our humble alley with your presence this morning...

Dibble: I asked you a question Top Cat!

TC: Well, Officer Dibble...these objects you see on the tops of our bins are the latest in modern communications technology – they are known as “set-top boxes”, and they will enable all the alley cats to tune into my new series of fire-side chats...that is if they can see their screens with all the smoke from those expensive and polluting smoke-burning braziers owned by the Fat Cats...

Dibble: Huh...do they come with a complimentary fire-extinguisher, TC – after all, we all know what happened when you installed the pink batts in the cats’ bin-lids last year...heh...heh...Isn’t that right, Dribble?

Dribble: Miaow...

[Everyone looks at Officer Dribble, expecting him to add something coherent and useful to the discussion. But, alas, nothing else emits from his cake-hole. Meanwhile, ‘Chooch’ Wong has to be restrained by Benny and Spook, as she has had enough of Dribble’s rudeness.]

Dibble: Well, anyway...And so, Top Cat, I hope you haven’t got any plans this year to build any more of your school halls in the alley...If you ask me, education is wasted on you alley cats...After all, you lot are always going to be il-litter-ate anyway...hee...hee...

TC: Oh, very droll, Officer Dibble...But, you’ll have to admit that without our stimulation measures, Carbon Alley would have been a catastrophic basket-case, similar to some of those other alleys in the neighbourhood...

Dibble (whispering): Erm, TC...talking about your stimulation measures...any chance of a few more of those $900 cheques you handed out – the old mortgage payments are getting to be a bit of a burden these days...

TC: Officer Dibble!!! What an outlandish and corrupt request!!! I expected much higher ethical standards of an upstanding public servant such as your good self...And there was I, trying to make an honest man out of you...sheesh...

Dibble: Pffffffttttt!! It’ll not stand up in court, TC, and you know it – I didn’t write it down, so it doesn’t count...Ain’t that right, Dribble?

Dribble: Miaow...

[Again, everyone pauses to see if Dribble is going to add anything coherent. However, it is as well no-one held their breath. Meanwhile, Chooch is still being restrained by Benny and Spook.]

Dibble: Oh, and TC – what’s this about you introducing a CAT (“Carbon Amelioration Tax”) on the Fat Cats’ coal braziers in the alley? I’ll have you know the science isn’t settled here and the braziers aren’t quite the environmental villains some of you alley cats make them out to be...And your great new big tax is going to wipe everywhere from Carbon Alley to Whyalla off the map...And destroy the Catillac car industry...and inflict endless re-runs of Cat Blanchett and Michael Cat-on movies on your dopey set-top boxes...And reduce you to eating Weetbix every meal instead of Kit-e-kat...And getting herpes just like Terry McCat...

TC: Woah, Officer Dibble!! Just hang on there for a second...I see you’ve got your weathervane in full swing here...If you’re so opposed to my Carbon Amelioration Tax, how come you said this...

<

Dibble: But...but...but...how did you get your hands on that tape, TC – that is my spiel after I get promotion to Police Commissioner...In the meantime, whatever you say, I just parrot the polar opposite – you know how it works...Isn’t that right, Dribble?

[No-one evens looks at Dribble, as the expectation is that he will only utilise another opportunity to tease Chooch. However, to everyone’s amazement, Dribble actually starts to say something more than, “miaow”.]

Dribble: Erm...I don’t know about that, Dibble...maybe we should face reality here and just give the middle finger to the Fat Cats...I’m happy to put my hand out for the compo that goes along with the CAT, and be a pussy-cat just like the others around here...What do you think, Dibble – and just remember that great big mortgage of yours...

[Officer Dibble pauses for a few seconds, but, his response is unequivocal.]

Dibble: Miaowwwwwwwwwwww...

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Feral Skeleton

10/06/2011Fantastic! AcerbicC., but I would have had Officer Dibble's response to Officer Dribble's wise words, at last, as a good minute's worth of head nodding stunned silence. ;-)

lyn

10/06/2011Hi Acerbic Conehead Amazing you are, thankyou so much for another inhouse theatrette. Officer Dibble like that name it fits like a glove. Governance used be orderly, ordinary, simple, before Officer Dribble was ordained. Everyone knows,muck up, mess up, Dribble, not just the TPS blog, there are a least 49 other reliable bloggs sharing our opinion. The audience is not here yet, but you wait they will be, once they all get organized. Cheers see you back stage later

Patricia WA

10/06/2011Yes, but even if our Top Cat does fight back will she be fairly reported by the media? Last nights http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3240286.htm so called report by Tom Eggleton on the Productivity Commission was largely about the Oppoosition's response to it and then a long report on John Faulkner's speech on his party's shortcomings. For once I thought Fran Kelly on am this morning did a pretty fair job of putting Greg Hunt on the spot in her questions about the Productivity Commission report. As well she gave a fair precis of its main findings. I'll be interested to see how others present it. Michelle Grattan had a bet each way, describing it as hardly a game changer! http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/down-to-single-issue-for-voters-20110609-1fv20.htm Anyone who can read with a minimal level of objectivity would say that's nonsense. This report [i]is[/i] a game changer in terms of votes for the scheme when the legislation is finally before the House of Reps. Tony Abbott and his flat earthers can say what they like. If the media continue to support him, then, of course, voting intentions at the next election will very much depend on how successful they are in convincing the voting public to doubt their own personal experience of the scheme in practice.

Gravel

10/06/2011Acerbic Conehead You do this so well. Although I haven't seen this cartoon for such a long time the characters were still alive in the old grey matter upstairs. I had a really good laugh. Patricia Like you I was incensed by the reportage by the ABC. Both television and radio this morning. Running such negative stories in such an aggressive biased way. It has gotten to the point of stupidity and I just despair at it all. Jason Can I add to the calls for you to come back please. I look forward to your posts almost daily and your informed links.

Patricia WA

10/06/2011That typo - [i]Oppoosition[/i] - was inadvertent. Had I been Talk Turkey you could rely on it being deliberate!:) But looking at it now I think one could even insert an 'h' somewhere there with good effect. This sudden pre-occupation of mine with bad language is, I think, suppressed rage from recent events here plus the serendipitous oppportunity to swear offered by the issue of on-the-spot fines in Victoria raised by Kevin Rennie at http://globalvoicesonline.org/2011/06/07/australia%e2%80%99s-swear-in-fine-is-a-four-letter-word/ As well Gravel was kind enough to comment on my own effort re. swearing through the link lesson here at TPS. [i]A propos[/i] of which if my comments seem a bit overloaded with links for a while it's just that I'm reinforcing everything I've learned from Lyn and Norman K. I am absolutely gob-smacked, by the way, at the simple elegance of the process and its miraculous effectiveness.

Michael

10/06/2011Today's Bad Abbott Our "Shouldabeen PM" Tony Abbott has been up to one of his favourite tricks, lying by omission, again. In Lenore Taylor's article here: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/abbott-sticks-to-his-line-but-misses-crucial-point-20110609-1fv3h.html the following quote can be found: "Tony Abbott was repeating his line yesterday that there was ''a smart way and a dumb way'' to reduce carbon emissions. But he neglected to mention the Productivity Commission report he was talking about said pretty clearly that the Coalition's ''direct action'' policy was the dumb way." Will a man who tries to pull the wool over Australian citizens' eyes so continually as Opposition Leader ever be able to kick that habit should he become Prime Minister? Very doubtful. 'Shouldabeen Tony' is a serial abuser of the truth. The man is untrustworthy, underhanded, under-skilled for leadership, and undoubtedly the worst possible prospect for leadership of this nation in a long long time. Undeniably.

NormanK

10/06/2011Acerbic Conehead Very well done. One of your finest efforts to date. The [i]Top Cat[/i] scenario is such a clean fit that you must have been well pleased when that popped into your head. A loud purr of approval from that mangy old ginger tom from across the back.

NormanK

10/06/2011Well, we've been calling for it and now we've got it. The ALP has set up on-line think tanks to canvas ideas and suggestions from the general public. This is a chance for all of us to voice our opinions. This opportunity probably won't come around again for a very long time. http://thinktank.alp.org.au/issues/

NormanK

10/06/2011Oops. It seems this site has been there for a while. However, along the lines of logic that says a tree falling in the forest makes no sound unless someone witnesses it, this site did not exist until I discovered it. :D For those wishing to give the ALP a nudge on same sex marriage, here is the Platform Review which is most likely to address the subject. [b]Labor ThinkTank on Platform Review #7 - Securing an inclusive future for all Australians[/b] [quote]Labor believes that every Australian should have the opportunity to reach their potential and to [b]participate fully in the[/b] economic and [b]social life of the nation[/b].[/quote] http://thinktank.alp.org.au/issues/platform-review--7---securing-an-inclusive-future-/ There will never be a better opportunity to push for this change with public opinion so strongly behind the necessary reform and a Conference coming up later this year. ReCaptcha bingo - [i]justice[/i]

lyn

10/06/2011Hi Michael Thankyou for Today's bad Abbott. [quote]The man is untrustworthy, underhanded, under-skilled for leadership, and undoubtedly the worst possible prospect for leadership of this nation in a long long time. Undeniably[/quote]. Excellent description, I don't care if we are unremitting the proof is there everyday for all to see. Last night we see Mr Abbott is now a Coal Miner, photo's so far: coal miner, machine gun operator, fish monger, check out chick, D9 Driver, fish monger, quad bike rider, surf board rider, push bike rider, iron man competitor, banana eater, witchetty grub eater, welder, ironing lady, dry cleaner, green grocer, brick layer, is this what we are going to see for the next 2 and a half years. Got to run out surely it's already been one and a half years. Cheers a half years, they say he is a family man, I wonder when.

BSA Bob

10/06/2011Lyn at 2.50 You missed Abbott the Cleaner-Upper in Queensland, where he handed the broom back to its surprised owner once he thought the camera had stopped, & Recycling Tony a few days back. Even the news bulletins took a swipe at his "recycled" daily message. Michael Keep up the Bad Abbotts. You won't lack for ammunition

2353

10/06/2011What about the Abbott in the bus depot talking about there is no buses being manufactured in Australia (someone needs to tell Volgren, Bustech and others they are doing the impossible). **Come back Jason**

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10/06/2011AC Thank you yet again for your clever satire with so many embedded subtle nuances. You help us see the silly side of the political game and give us a great belly laugh, so needed after a heavy week.

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10/06/2011Folks Tony Abbott’s disingenuousness continues unabated. He picked out one sentence in the Productivity Commission Research Report [i]Carbon Emission Policies in Key Economies[/i] to imply that the Government’s Scheme for an ETS preceded by a price on carbon is somehow incomparable with other schemes and inferior to them. The sentence reads: [i]“...no country currently imposes an economy-wide tax on greenhouse gas emissions or has in place an economy-wide ETS.[/i] ‘Economy-wide’ simply means that all sectors of the economy are included. Since on present indications Australia is likely to at least exclude agriculture (as it did in its original CPRS until 2015 at least), it too will not have an economy-wide scheme, in line with the rest of the world. So Abbott’s point is spurious, as is so often the case. He sets up a straw man (no country has an economy-wide scheme) and then proceeds to try to knock it down by implying Australia’s scheme is economy-wide, despite the fact that it is not yet finalized, and nobody knows its final form. But he sounds authoritative and so his sycophants lap it up. He also chose to ignore a key finding of the Report: [i]” In summary, while the overall impacts of the policy measures analysed appears to be relatively small for most countries, the consistent finding from this study is that much lower-cost abatement could be achieved through broad, explicit carbon pricing approaches, irrespective of the policy settings in competitor economies. “It is generally recognised that the most direct and, consequently, most efficient way of implementing the ‘relative price’ change required to discourage consumption of high-emission products in favour of low-emission ones, is through a global, broadly-based carbon tax or quota scheme (emissions trading scheme).”[/i] This puts paid to the argument that his DAP is a better option, which by all accounts would be much more expensive. But expect him to carry on as if he is always right and the expert group in the Productivity Commission is wrong. The Report is at: http://resources.news.com.au/files/2011/06/09/1226072/391774-productivity-commission.pdf

Acerbic Conehead 2

10/06/2011FS, [quote]Fantastic! AcerbicC., but I would have had Officer Dibble's response to Officer Dribble's wise words, at last, as a good minute's worth of head nodding stunned silence. [/quote] LOL. Yes, great postscript. And after his head nearly fell off, Dibble pulled out his stun-gun and tazered the bejesus out of poor old Dribble. Lyn, Welcome to The Political Sword “inhouse theatrette”. At the interval, I’ll shout you a choc-ice. Patricia WA, [quote]Yes, but even if our Top Cat does fight back will she be fairly reported by the media?[/quote] Yes, we need to keep putting pressure on the MSM to do the right thing and report objectively. I’m sick and tired of seeing biased political reporting masquerading as truth. Gravel, Great to hear you enjoyed the piece. [i]Top Cat[/i] was always one of my favourites. I noticed it is on one of the new channels ([i]GO![/i] I think). Have a great weekend and I hope your health is steadily improving. Michael, Keep those Bad Abbotts and other comments coming. [quote]The man is untrustworthy, underhanded, under-skilled for leadership, and undoubtedly the worst possible prospect for leadership of this nation in a long long time. Undeniably.[/quote] I hope Tones isn’t depending on you for a character reference, lol. NormanK, Thank you again for your kind words of support. I got the [i]Top Cat[/i] idea from my brother-in-law, who lurks here. After he heard about [i]MiaowGate[/i] he suggested I base a story on [i]Top Cat[/i]. BSA Bob, That low trick by Tones with the broom in Queensland was an eye-opener (if anyone needed one). Can you imagine the hullaballoo the MSM would have kicked up if Anna Bligh or Julia Gillard did something similar? 2353, [quote]What about the Abbott in the bus depot talking about there is no buses being manufactured in Australia (someone needs to tell Volgren, Bustech and others they are doing the impossible).[/quote] Yes, Tones should have known that. After all, was he not a bus inspector in a previous life? http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2011/03/12/The-People’s-Revolt-goes-‘On-the-Buses’.aspx AA, I’m glad you got a laugh out of the Top Cat story. And as you astutely point out in regard to Tones’ take on the Productivity Commission’s report, he is reducing its whole thrust to a minor qualification. He makes a used-car salesman look like Forest Gump. Jason, Due to work commitments, I missed the shindigs the other day, so can’t comment on any of that. However, we badly need a heads-up on who’s on the political shows on this weekend’s idiot-box. We will expect your report toot sweet.

macca

10/06/2011No matter the strength of your convictions. No matter the purity of your ideals. No matter the validity of your argument. No matter how ingrained your sense of honour. The weak and vitriolic will, on occasion, get to you. They will engineer, and revel in, your isolation and despair. They truly think that they have won. That they have claimed a scalp....but, only, if they have your permission. Perhaps the substance of a mans thoughts are validated by the honesty of his argument.

Jason

11/06/2011Hi Folks! Thank you for your kind words! I would like to say a lot,However this isn't about me. So that said! This weekend on the TV if FS couldn't get enough of belina Neil on Bolt TV, this weekend she can watch her husband John Della Bosca! And "old acid drop" Niki Sava has to sit on insiders with David Marr and Lenore Taylor(thinking mans crumpet?) 8:30am Sky News 601 - Australian Agenda On Sky News Australian Agenda this week ACTU Secretary Jeff Lawrence and Shadow Minister for Justice, Customs & Border Protection Michael Keenan. Joining host Peter Van Onselen on the Panel, The Australian's Paul Kelly, Industrial Relations Editor Ewan Hannan and Legal Affairs Editor Chris Merritt. 8:38am Ch7 - Weekend Sunrise - The Riley Diary Political editor Mark Riley looks at past and future comments on carbon, and the secret past life of a prominent politician revealed. Meet The Press has moved to a 10.30am time slot, unless you're in Canberra and surrounds when it's 4pm. 8:40am Ch9 - Today on Sunday - The Laurie Oakes Interview The weekly Laurie Oakes interview is no more. We'll let you know when Laurie is next expected to return to your Sunday morning screen. 9:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 - Insiders On Insiders this Sunday, Barrie Cassidy interviews the Defence Minister Stephen Smith. On the panel: Lenore Taylor from The Sydney Morning Herald, political commentator Niki Savva and David Marr from The Sydney Morning Herald. And Mike Bowers talks pictures with Chris Taylor from The Chaser. 10:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 @ 5.30pm - Inside Business This week on Inside Business an interview with Australia’s largest cattle producer, AACo CEO David Farley, about the impact of the ban on the Indonesian live cattle trade. Plus a look at the growing industrial relations tensions in Australian workplaces and whether a wage breakout is imminent. And, they talk to the global head of the world’s biggest on-line payment processor, PayPal President Scott Thompson As well, the regular update of the latest news from the markets and Alan Kohler’s incisive commentary. 10.00am Ch10 everywhere but Canberra at 4.30pm - The Bolt Report - Check local program guides for encore performance timings later in the day This week on The Bolt Report, Labor backbencher, Kelvin Thomson will join Andrew for a chat about the party's backbench revolt against the live export trade. Liberal powerbroker, Michael Kroger and former Labor MP John Della Bosca will be on the panel for this week's debate. The chair of the Joint Standing Committee on Migration, Labor MP Maria Vamvakinou will discuss the fallout from the Australia v Serbia soccer friendly in Melbourne. 10.30am Ch10 everywhere but Canberra at 4.00pm - Meet the Press - Check local program guides for encore performance timings later in the day Paul Bongiorno is joined on the Panel by Katharine Murphy of The Age and Marius Benson of ABC NewsRadio. Together they interview Queensland Federal Independent MP, Bob Katter, the head of the new Australian Party and Federal Labor Caucus Chairman Daryl Melham MP.

lyn

11/06/2011Hi Jason Thankyou so much for tomorrow's political TV program, it tells me "what not to watch" Seems Mr Abbott flies to Nauru today, just in time to get video clips for tomorrows shows. When I listed Abbott qualifications I forgot Bus Driver, Cleaner also I saw him drilling with an industrial drill once, what's that job called. John Della Bosca that figures. A bit of information on Nauru: Rampant untruths kill asylum debate, Peter Van Onselen, The Australian John Howard pulled off a one-time trick with Nauru. He set it up and deported asylum-seekers there with no prospect of resettlement in Australia. That was the rhetoric and it worked. Few wanted to pay people smugglers large sums to rot on an island in the middle of nowhere. But once the deterrent stopped the boats, the overwhelming majority (more than 70 per cent) of the 1637 people sent to Nauru between 2001 and 2007 were granted asylum in Australia or abroad. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/rampant-untruths-kill-asylum-debate/story-e6frgd0x-1226073222713 Have a nice Saturday off work Jason

lyn

11/06/2011[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]Kitty Hawk II, Ash, Ash's Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] So beware fossil fuel industry. You are being surrounded. Climate scientists on one side, and physicists on the other. As the Kitty Hawk flights eventually lead to the Voyager probe, http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/06/11/kitty-hawk-ii/ [i]WA state redistribution: draft boundaries, William Bowe, The Poll Bludger[/i] Antony Green has his margins up: I believe I beat him by a matter of seconds. I’m pleased to say they look very much the same as mine, so it seems I’ve done it right http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2011/06/10/wa-state-redistribution-draft-boundaries/ [i]RPT-ANALYSIS-Australia's Abbott faces bumpy marathon run to power,James Grubel, Reuters[/i] A major risk for Abbott is that Gillard's minority government will manage to pass its carbon tax bill, leaving him without a key avenue of attack. http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFL3E7H80XN20110610?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0 [i]Models For A Model Carbon Policy, Ben Eltham, New Matilda[/i] McKibbin has been using his high profile and, dare we say it, his public position as a Reserve Bank director, to spruik his own business interests — as a provider of economic modelling. http://www.newmatilda.com.au/2011/06/10/models-model-carbon-policy [i]Faulkner’s Seinfeld moment — it’s all about nothing, Guy Rundle, Crikey[/i] Faulkner, like many of the activists Labor attracted in the 1970s and ’80s, were those who always cleaved to the anti-theoretical side of life. Emerging from the social movements of the day, http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/06/10/rundle-faulkners-seinfeld-moment-its-all-about-nothing/ [i]Ludwig reserves judgement on MLA, Jeremy Thompson, ABC[/i] Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has slammed the government's handling of the live cattle trade scandal, saying the suspension of trade is going too far. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/10/3240683.htm?section=justin [i]Evading meaty realities that make us feel uncomfortable, Jeff Sparrow, The Drum[/i] In Australia, we kill animals in huge quantities. All of us should, it seems to me, be prepared to face up to what that actually means. http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2754148.html [i]Opinion: Running the ruler over NBN Co's procurement, David Havyatt, ItNews[/i] It is notable that spokesperson Malcolm Turnbull has moved on from suggesting the NBN is redundant because wireless can handle the load, to claiming that FTTN is sufficient and half the cost. http://www.itnews.com.au/News/260151,opinion-running-the-ruler-over-nbn-cos-procurement.aspx [i]Faulkner on the ALP, David Havyatt, Anything Goes[/i] "The NSW Right must be destroyed". By that I mean the version of the right that believes the purpose is to gain power, that through power you can exercise patronage, and through patronage you can gain future power. http://davidhavyatt.blogspot.com/ [i]Telstra, not gormless Libs, plaguing Conroy, David Braue,ZDNet[/i] unless Abbott is willing to lay down detailed alternative telecoms policies and commit to billions in infrastructure spending on the roads and hospitals he so loves to talk about — he is just blowing so much hot air. http://www.zdnet.com.au/telstra-not-gormless-libs-plaguing-conroy-339316536.htm [i]Telstra-NBN deal slowed by Coalition govt concerns: report, Technology Spectator[/i] if the National Broadband Network (NBN) was scrapped in the event of a Coalition election win has largely been the cause of delays in the NBN Co's $9 billion takeover of Telstra's fixed-line phone monopoly, according to a report by the Australian Financial Review. http://technologyspectator.com.au/nbn-buzz/telstra-nbn-deal-slowed-coalition-govt-concerns?utm_source=Technology+Spectator+List&utm_campaign=562df73173-TECH_SPEC_DAILY&utm_medium=email [i]Is the Coalition in the process of doing a U-turn on the NBN? Nick Ross, Technology, ABC[/i] We've left in the cheap shots about how the NBN currently has more employees than subscribers - has there ever been a business that hasn't been in such a position when it started up? http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2011/06/10/3240688.htm [i]Robbing solar to pay power retailers, Warwick Johnston, Climate Spectator[/i] The Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal (IPART) recognise that utilities are making windfall profits from the Solar Bonus Scheme. “The Solar Bonus Scheme is currently structured so that [electricity] retailers receive a financial benefit http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/robbing-solar-pay-power-retailers [i]leading the World, Macro Business[/i] Lots of other countries are “leading the world” with abatement policies, some of them economically efficient and most of them not. So putting a price on carbon would not be leading the world in terms of the amount or vigour of policy measures, http://macrobusiness.com.au/2011/06/leading-the-world/?utm_source=Media+List&utm_campaign=e56e83af74-RSS_DAILY_MAILCHIMP_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email [b]Reading:[/b] [i]Big Australia: Governments need to decide if they want 'Green' Australia or 'White' Australia , Jo Coghlan,[/i] Australian Policy Online The central question in the population debate is whether Australia should set itself a target population level and target rate of population change to be achieved by some future date http://apo.org.au/commentary/big-australia-governments-need-decide-if-they-want-green-australia-or-white-australia

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11/06/2011Jason Welcome back. We've missed you. Thanks for Sunday's programs. Let's see how David Marr copes with Niki Savva on [i]Insiders[/i]. That should be fun to watch!

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11/06/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011Yay! I woke up to see Jason's face smiling back at me! (K)

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011lyn, You may like to put this blogger on your list. He, like Andrew Elder, is a former Liberal Party member who comments on the Libs with a jaundiced eye :) http://planetirf.blogspot.com/

Tom of Melbourne

11/06/2011High brow, as one would expect.

NormanK

11/06/2011Jason Welcome back. (K) (K) (K) Sorry if my moustache tickles.

2353

11/06/2011A very well timed return Jason. This http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/labor-peers-into-the-abyss-20110610-1fx05.html was in the Brisbane Times (and I assume the SMH etc this morning. As a card carrying member of the ALP, your opinion would be invaluable. While I'm not a card carrying member of any political party, if the article is a fair representation of what Faulkner actually said - it seems a fair argument to me. For the first time in a generation, the ALP is being attacked from both the more progressive and more conservative. Can it find a way through before the party (figuratively) assumes the foetal position under the desk in the corner and fades into oblivion?

Patricia WA

11/06/2011Good Morning all, and Jason! Just been quoting Talk Turkey over at http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/media-watch-vii/#comment-26516. I was interested to read the suggestion from Eddie there that we could do one small thing for modern mankind in limiting Murdoch's influence by adding our names to the UK petition to http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_rupert_murdoch_3/?twi Is there something similar going here in Oz? If so, how could I have missed it?

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011Tom of Melbourne, And Gutter Trash is the height of erudition. :) Don't make me laugh. However, that appears to me to be what you lot at GT lack. A sense of humour. Still, keep attacking us. It only puts us in a more favourable light cf you, as a result. It shows the smallness of your minds and the generosity of our spirits to let you keep posting your vile bile here.

Tom of Melbourne

11/06/2011Gutter Trash has no pretensions. It is what it is, a site where diversity of opinion is welcomed. There is clearly no group think. It is sometimes lively, rigorous and trashy, heated exchanges are valued as part of the territory. Contributors are diverse and very many are capable of writing a coherent discussion with their own (independent) mind and capability. Contributors are transparent in their motives and attribution. It has no pretension and no hypocrisy, and in this respect it is entirely different to TPS.

Gravel

11/06/2011Acerbic Conehead Thank you for your lovely comment, I love the way you write. Talk Turkey makes me laugh a lot too when he is being playful. I appreciate everyone on here, mostly. Health improving by the day, thanks for your concern, getting close to be normal, or should that be abnormal, being a Labor supporter. Jason Welcome back and thank you for your Sunday program links, it help decide what sort of day most of us will have, either stuck in front of TV or doing something a bit more productive.

Feral Skeleton

11/06/20112353, That article of Hartcher's was going well until the last paragraph where he jumped to a Herculaen conclusion meant to stoke even more unrest in the ALP methinks, because I can think of no other reason, nor of any proof for his assertion thus: [quote]The Labor Left hopes it will be enough to restore Labor to a position where it might again hope to win an election. And Rudd hopes it will be enough to restore him to the prime ministership.[/quote]

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011[i]If you were stoned in the 1970s and can't remember where you were, your ASIO file could be a horror read.[/i] Haydn Keenan turned his obsession into a documentary series, writes Steve Meacham. [b]Dupes and subversives: the banal dross in ASIO files[/b] http://www.smh.com.au/national/dupes-and-subversives-the-banal-dross-in-asio-files-20110610-1fx15.html#ixzz1OvVohYUH [i]About 500,000 Australians have earned ASIO files since the counter-espionage body was created by Chifley in 1949. ... ''There's one thing consistent about the left, mate, and that's vanity,'' he says. ''An ASIO file is the best aide-memoire. If you were stoned in the 1970s and can't remember where you were, get your ASIO file. It's got the transcript of every call you made, every flight you took, every room you stayed in, who you were rooting. I know people doing biographies who are using ASIO files to fill in the blanks.''[/i] I know [i]nothing[/i] and will neither [i]confirm[/i] or [i]deny[/i] :) or point any fingers :) Hat Tip: SWMBO

TalkTurkey

11/06/2011Jason said "Hi Folks! Thank you for your kind words! I would like to say a lot,However this isn't about me. So that said! . . . " You are heading towards sagehood Cobber. (K)

jj

11/06/2011Your usual dribble Conehead. Weir whatever, To say that you lived in Darwin at some stage does not mean that you understand, one bit, what it is that faces the Cattle industry at the moment! I know quite a few people in the industry (particularly in the NT) who face enormous issues! These places have their annual valuations coming up which affects their credit flows and interest rates. This ban hits them right in the middle of the exporting season which effectively knocks them out for 12 MONTHS (i know AA, you must find it hard to understand, but the cattle industry only makes money 6 months of the year, so this 6 month ban right in the middle of the money making period knocks them out for next season as well). Cattle producers in the southern markets will see excessive amounts of stock dumped on their market, reducing cattle prices dramatically. Truckies, Warfies, feed producers and suppliers, jackaroos and jilaroos, small businesses such as taverns and truck stops etc will all be hugely affected! On top of all that i have said above is the issue of consultation, timing and patterns. No prospect of consultation was discussed before the decision was announced. The decision was not even discussed with state agricultural ministers before it was announced. Ludwig knew of this issue in December, which, if he had of acted then would have dramatically reduced the impact of any sort of suspension as it would have been right in the middle of the wet season. This Government seems to be good at announcing things before they are thought out, or discussed with the relevant stakeholders (THAT DOES NOT MEAN JUST THE DEPARTMENT). AA, You have done nothing whatsoever to improve the standing of this site by posting this piece. If you publish stuff that can pick on people because they are fat and rich, than surely i can write about Gillard being a whinging, droning, red-nut toad!

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011I believe I have probably got an ASIO file, if not current, then certainly historical. Once, in High School, I was called out of class to go and see the Principal. I thought, "Uh oh, they've found out about me chucking a tampon soaked in red ink out the door of the train as it pulled away from Redfern Station." :-$ So I go up the stairs to the Headmistresses Office, and I'm told to stand and wait for her to call me in. So I developed a grovelling apology for the tampon incident, 'Will never do it again, yada, yada...', and waited for the call. So, I eventually got called in after she got off the phone. She had a very stern look on her face and a demeanour which suggested to me that she was overblowing this tampon thing. She opened with the formalities, then cut straight to the chase. "Victoria, I've just gotten off the phone from someone who told me that you intend to demonstrate at the upcoming Anti Vietnam War March in Sydney. They have advised me to let you know that it would be better if you changed your mind about that and restricted your future involvement in causes such as that and similar to that. I hope you take this advice seriously because the people that I have spoken to are also aware that you have tried to get a copy of 'The Little Red Book', and they agree, as do I, that such information would go on your permanent record and may influence your ability to get a job in future. That is all I want to say to you today, you can go now." Suffice to say I left in a state of shock and amazement at how 'they'(ie ASIO), could have found out about a Year 10 schoolgirl's plans to attend the rally. I could only think that someone at school had dobbed me in after I had spoken about it. The book business I could understand. Suffice to say, it scared the hell out of me enough to stop me attending the march through town as I didn't want to screw up my future, and ASIO cast a very long shadow in those days and most people were pretty scared of its power in society at the time. Now, I haven't bothered to find out precisely whether I have an ASIO file, but I could pretty much guarantee it. :)

TalkTurkey

11/06/2011DMW That's a great article you mention! The last paragraph, the one you quote, is a killer! So . . . How do I get my ASIO file? 'Cos it wasn't only the big fish, you know . . . and yes, I do have a few leaky bits in my memory . . . ;-)

Ad astra reply

11/06/2011jj What amazes me is that you keep returning to [i]TPS[/i], which clearly you regard as an appalling blogsite. Why do you subject yourself to what seems like self-punishment?

Jason

11/06/20112353, Rudd of course would agree with what Faulkner has had to say,but Rudd isn't coming back as leader. Where Labor fails in my opinion is the conservative "right"of the party see themselves as Christians who happen to be Labor MP's rather than the other way round. This is where the angst that we see from reb and Tom of Melbourne comes from,in as much that the labor party war lords are trying as hard as they can to avoid such issues as same sex unions/marriage and anything else that might upset the Vatican, to appease a few "red neck" voters in "western Sydney" at the expense of the rest of the country Times have changed just as voters attitudes to social issues have, and as the attitudes change (I don't mean populist)Labor has to change as well to remain relevant. Labor doesn't need to deny its past,but its future surely isn't going to attract a more "educated" people with 100 year old thinking, the churches have that luxury we the (ALP) don't!

Ad astra reply

11/06/2011FS Peter Hartcher’s article was one of his better ones – at least it was analytic, unlike Michelle Grattan’s which was surprisingly paltry. Peter Hartcher’s analysis is at: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/labor-peers-into-the-abyss-20110610-1fx05.html For anyone looking for John Faulkner’s speech, it is on the ALP website at: http://www.alp.org.au/blogs/alp-blog/june-2011/the-annual-wran--senator-john-faulkner/

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011Good Afternoon jj, welcome back. [i]Ludwig knew of this issue in December, which, if he had of acted then would have dramatically reduced the impact of any sort of suspension ...[/i] Please, correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that Ludwig worked with the industry (the MLA?) and prodded them to get their house in order. The response(s) were apparently woefully inadequate. I guess that Ludwig (and others in this rotten government) must have conspired with the ABC 4 Corners team to make sure the documentary was aired at the worst possible moment in the cycle to manipulate public opinion. Then again, given the obvious incompetencies of this atrocious government would they have been capable of conspiring with anyone? With all of the industry self regulation that is flavour of the (past) moment, the mantra seems to be: 'When things are going right it's because the industry knows what it is doing and they are all wonderful self-regulators and when things go wrong it is all the fault of the rotten interfering communist bar stewards in the government and the public service'. I think this has some relationship to the mantra and reason for existence of the National Party i.e. 'Capitalise the Profits, Socialise the Losses' There is no denying that this will have a huge effect on many people but the question remains: [i]What would you, or the conservative parties, done to fix the problems?[/i]

Jason

11/06/2011jj, Were you as "outraged" in 2006? Cattle exports to Egypt set to resume October 3, 2006 - 6:49PM Australia is set to resume live cattle exports to Egypt after a seven-month ban prompted by claims of animal cruelty. The federal government suspended exports in February and began investigating allegations Australian cattle were being mistreated at an Egyptian abattoir. A TV current affairs program showed footage of cattle at Cairo's Bassatin abattoir being stabbed in the eye before having the tendons in their back legs cut so they could not escape. It also showed a steel restraint box, provided to the Egyptians by Australia to improve their handling of cattle for slaughter, which appeared to have never been used. Agriculture Minister Peter McGauran on Tuesday said an investigation found the cattle shown in the footage were not from Australia. He has signed two memorandums of understanding with Egypt after receiving assurances from Cairo that it would treat Australian animals in line with international standards. Live exports to Egypt could resume within weeks. "I acknowledge the close cooperation received from the livestock export industry in developing the arrangements with Egypt," Mr McGauran said. "This reflects government and community expectations that good animal handling must occur throughout the supply chain, and that Australian animals must continue to be treated well even after they leave Australia." Under the new agreement, three Egyptian abattoirs - including Bassatin - will be accredited to handle Australian cattle. Cattle would be traced from the farm gate to Egyptian feed lots through their Australian National Livestock Identification System tags. The arrangements will be audited independently to ensure compliance. Mr McGauran said Egypt had also agreed to make sure animals were unloaded quickly and humanely on arrival and provided with feed, water, shelter and veterinary care. The peak beef industry body, the Cattle Council of Australia, welcomed the agreements. "We will defend this important trade to the hilt and we stand by our animal welfare standards, the highest in the world," council president Bill Bray said in a statement. "We are confident our livestock will receive high standards of animal care in Egypt."

Jason

11/06/2011jj, I forgot the link! http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/Cattle-exports-to-Egypt-set-to-resume/2006/10/03/1159641319186.html

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011TT @ 12:33 PM, if you really (really?) wanted to find out you could start with the National Archives of Australia. (A great institution btw). They have have many fact sheets etc. on accessing government information and this one would be the best starting point: [b]Fact sheet 53 – Personal information in ASIO records[/b] http://www.naa.gov.au/about-us/publications/fact-sheets/fs53.aspx FS @ 12:18 PM [i]'... aware that you have tried to get a copy of 'The Little Red Book', ...'[/i] I knew it, I just knew it and now you have given the game away you are a bleedin' closet commie peacenik crazy. [b]Keep the faith sister[/b] :)

lyn

11/06/2011Hi Feral Thanks for the link, a new blog site love them . I check the site out later. All I can hear this morning is Tony Abbott flies to Nauru today, over and over, and over. Have a nice Saturday Cheers

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011Jason @ 12:50 PM you forgot to mention also that as those actions were taken by a National Party minister they obviously were done with full consultation and had no adverse effects on the industry. The Agrarian Socialists (oops those fine upstanding conservatives) can do no wfrong you know.

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011jj, Now I know you only have one eye. You have completely ignored the support of Heytesbury Holdings for the suspension of the Live Cattle Trade to Indonesia until more humane slaughter practices can be instituted. Doesn't suit your foam-flecked rant, does it? Also, may I just say that you appear, unsurprisingly, to put money above animal welfare. Quite happy were you to let the abuse of the cattle keep occurring as long as it was out of sight and out of mind of Australians, and for your mates in the Cattle Industry to keep making their ill-gotten gains? Also, don't think you can get away with blaming Joe Ludwig for the mealy-mouthed response of MLA and the Live Cattle Industry to his requests for suggestions for self-regulation of their industry when the horrific practices they have known about for years came to light in December last year. I guess, if there was a mistake that Sen. Ludwig made, it was being too nice to people who were prepared to let these inhumane animal slaughter methods keep continuing so that they could keep continuing to make money out of it, whilst attempting to fob him off, twice, with mere lip-service paid to doing something about it. So maybe they should have therefore done something sooner instead of imperilling all those jobs you are crying crocodile tears over now, huh? Typical of you to try and make mealy-mouthed excuses for them on their behalf here. And to top it all off with a disgusting insult of the Prime Minister. And Acerbic Conehead, who has more talent in his little finger than some 3rd Prize-winning competitor in a Creative Fiction competition for an Agricultural College.

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011jj, if you are still lurking here can we have your valuable opinion on this article: [b]Angry cattle farmers threaten class action[/b] - Kelly Burke - SMH - June 11, 2011 http://www.smh.com.au/national/angry-cattle-farmers-threaten-class-action-20110610-1fx2x.html [i]CATTLE farmers may take legal action against Meat and Livestock Australia, to claim for damages over the Indonesian export ban. Lawyers preparing a class action say that the directors of MLA and LiveCorp may have breached their fiduciary duties to their members by not disclosing to their members and levy payers the slaughtering conditions in some Indonesian abattoirs. The case would have to prove that MLA directors had prior knowledge of the inhumane conditions under which Australian cattle were killed.[/i]

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011And in other news: [b]Gay soldier says career is almost certainly over[/b] - Paul Bibby - SMH - June 11, 2011 http://www.smh.com.au/national/gay-soldier-says-career-is-almost-certainly-over-20110610-1fx27.html [i]A GAY member of the Australian Defence Force who served as an army psychologist says his career is almost certainly over after he was subjected to a death threat and hate speech online by other soldiers, which he says were not investigated properly for a year. ... It is understood (the alleged perpertrator) will submit that he is suffering from mental illness. His lawyer asked for an extension of time to obtain a medical report.[/i] It seems the more things change, the more they stay the same

2353

11/06/2011So Jason, Would it be fair to suggest that the ALP could split over single sex unions etc? It seems to be a "back to the 50's" type discussion. From my reading of history, the 50's split (which did the ALP no favours for years afterwards) took the then religious right who were worried about the "Godless" communists into the DLP. The DLP then aligned itself with the Liberals (probably because it wasn't the ALP) and kept the ALP out of power Federally until the 70's. You're right, the world does move on. It is really sad and a shame on this country that people who were never "married" or preferred same sex relationships in earlier decades go to their grave hiding the "sordid truth". Just think of the mental anguish they lived with for their entire lives. It is often said that age brings conservatism (and a pining for the "good old days"). Is the real issue here political parties (maybe with the exception of the Greens) are reported to be losing members - and those that are left are older? Are those older members content just putting the old comfortable jumper on at the branch or executive meetings, reliving the famous battles of the past and simply don't want to change?

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011Interesting Letter to the Editor in the SMH http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/the-burning-question-why-take-the-risk-20110610-1fx8y.html [b]The burning question: why take the risk?[/b] - June 11, 2011 [i]The opposition is crowing that no country has a policy in place of the scale being proposed by Labor's carbon tax and therefore the Productivity Commission report is ''proof'' that Australia should not take on such strong legislation (''Abbott sticks to his line but misses crucial point'', June 10). The Opposition Leader claims that the policies studied from major countries such as the US, Japan, China, Britain and Germany are so insignificant that we should not bother doing more until they do. The logic does not sit well with me and here's why: The first person who stopped smoking for health reasons and lived a longer, healthy life had only benefit from being the first. Advertisement: Story continues below The first person to be saved by a seatbelt in a car and lived a longer life had only benefit from being the first. The first person to be saved from financial ruin by taking out fire insurance had only benefit from that decision. The first person to be saved from financial ruin by taking out flood insurance had only benefit from that decision. And so it will be that the first person to be saved from environmental degradation, flooding, storm, drought, sea level rise will have only benefit from the decision to drastically cut emissions and avoid the risk of dangerous climate change. There is, by all scientific measures, a 10 per cent risk that the current emissions will result in dangerous climate change. There is radically less than a 1 per cent risk that your house will burn to the ground in the next 12 months and yet you are extremely unlikely to say no to fire insurance. Just imagine how much financial ruin is in the offing for allowing that 10 per cent risk to run unchecked. Simeon Glasson Bondi Beach[/i]

TalkTurkey

11/06/2011Patricia WA, thanks for the expose on da Cafe, Gravel, so glad to give you a smile, And Swordsfolks generally, Thank you for liking da Turkey's gobbling. It certainly delights me to feel appreciated. And as Jason says, Sword regulars are family. Now, a bit of Turkey talk: These drongoes that reckon we are all just wtte inbred Labor sycophants on the Sword, why do they think we are here? Just to argue? Why would we? Why can't we just be relatively like-minded, there is no need deliberately to create division if we think alike anyway! That's what we WANT! If I or any other sincere correspondents ever saw any good ideas coming from beyond what we already have taken on board, well we'd build that into our thinking eh! So what have these drips got to offer? . . . erm . . . erm . . . well can't anybody think of ANYTHING? . . . No I didn't think so. Except they descend readily into personal invective and foul language, and what might be alright with their scaly mates is damnable on the Internet. Fie on them. Only their abject and sincere apology would cause me cautiously to accept them back as other than illwilled and unworthy of any direct acknowledgment. I would welcome that, but I'm not holding my breath. I guess I'd call myself centre-left, with a broad green streak and a dash of loony. Others are different. I do not always agree with everything everyone says, but it isn't our side of politics that insists that everything must be opposed to the extent that no agreement can be reached and nothing happens. That's Them. It all goes back to the basic Zoo sign: PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLLS But the main thing is, they are NOTHING! Not worth the worry! We will set our own standards and protocols around here, with Ad astra as the final filter, and it will stop short of the sort of stuff some have said elsewhere in the blogosphere, earning themselves only disrespect - but earning it, yes. Funny, I wonder what keyword it was that put me in mind of this song: "The Pig Got Up and Slowly Walked Away", 1933 song by Benjamin Hapgood Burt "One evening in October, when I was one-third sober, An' taking home a ‘load' with manly pride; My poor feet began to stutter, so I lay down in the gutter, And a pig came up an' lay down by my side; Then we sang ‘It's all fair weather when good fellows get together,' Till a lady passing by was heard to say: ‘You can tell a man who "boozes" by the company he chooses' And the pig got up and slowly walked away." :)

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011[b]Let's make things, says Abbott ... like trouble[/b] - Lenore Taylor - SMH - June 11, 2011 http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/lets-make-things-says-abbott--like-trouble-20110610-1fwud.html [i]In the fast-moving world of political fashion, blue-collar workers appear to be the new black. When Kevin Rudd, at his very first press conference as leader, right after professing his love for his family, said he didn't want to lead a country that didn't make things any more, he was viewed with a mixture of hostility and cynicism about what favours he might have owed the faction leaders who helped him get the job. A good part of the hostility and cynicism came from his own side. The idea of a government intervening to salvage the declining manufacturing industry was out of step with the times. Both Labor and Liberal governments had spent billions easing the pain as they chipped down Australia's tariff walls, but in the long term neither side really believed manufacturing had a future. When Rudd and his industry minister, Kim Carr, followed through with a $6.2 billion ''green car plan'' - at the height of the global economic crisis - it was widely seen as old-fashioned protectionism in a new green disguise. The then Coalition industry spokesman, Eric Abetz, said Australians were getting ''auto fatigue'', were asking ''how long do we have to keep subsidising this sector?'' and were suspicious the whole thing just amounted to ''continual industry welfare''. The Coalition, Senator Abetz said, was certainly not looking at providing the car industry with any more assistance. In fact, the Coalition had ''some difficulty with industry welfare'' altogether. When she took over the job, the present industry spokeswoman, Sophie Mirabella, concurred. But suddenly, the idea that we absolutely have to keep on ''making things'' has won enthusiastic cross-party favour.[/i] Political expediency anyone?

Jason

11/06/20112353, I don't think there would be a "split",However the party has to take notice of the reforms that the Faulkner review has recommended,(I don't agree with all of them because I haven't read all of them) but it MUST start to listen to the rank and file, and it also needs to put an end to the "Career Politician" who probably went to uni got a job as a "staffer" then became "elected" Hardly an impressive resume! It also has to do something about the worth of the union vote at state and national conventions! In the past when union membership was strong and could be counted as a vote for Labor and was also an ALP membership it was probably justified,now we have the shoppies union with their "DLP thinking" control the party and most of "their" members probably vote anything but Labor.

D Mick Weir

11/06/20112353 @ 1:46 PM, [i]Is the real issue here political parties (maybe with the exception of the Greens) are reported to be losing members - and those that are left are older? Are those older members content just putting the old comfortable jumper on at the branch or executive meetings, reliving the famous battles of the past and simply don't want to change? [/i] I suggest that one of the problems may be hiding from battles past. It seems to me that what has happening for a long while is that any discussion and/or division has to be hidden away. It his hard to put a finger on when this happened but I suggest that when Labor lost to John Howard the rot set in. JH was a master at pointing out the division within Labor and how the 'backroom boys' really ran the show so the party adapted his small target strategy, closed down discussion and now the party has 'forgotten' how to debate. Will the same sex 'thing' cause a split like that of the fifties? I doubt it it, but, it is one of the straws causing a heavy burden on the camel's back.

Patricia WA

11/06/2011Jason wants to put an [quote]end to the "Career Politician" who probably went to uni got a job as a "staffer" then became "elected" [/quote] I'm an ALP member, Jason, and I worry about the party's future too. I'm not sure that I agree with you entirely on that part of your comment. One way to attract idealistic and intelligent young recruits is with the offer of a job post graduation. Obviously other life experience is important and the party should find a way to expose young people like these who are promising candidates for election with life as it is lived amongst those for whom we seek social and economic justice here and overseas. Some sort of secondment scheme shouldn't be hard to devise. Not that I'd see graduate recruits into the party organisation as the only or even the best way to find good candidates. We have some excellent examples of ex-service personnel, businessmen, environmental activists and even media stars who have become fine ALP parliamentarians. Unions, of course, continue to throw up talented organisers, but nowadays they too are often uni graduates, and there's nothing wrong with that! I don't despair of the ALP's capacity to re-vitalise itself. My own sense is that its major shortcomings have resulted from its very success i.e. long incumbencies at state and federal levels over the past fifty years or so. Politics is all about power and power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Absolutely long entrenched power clearly brings corruption and corrosion of a political organisation which requires a sound ethic as the very reason for its existence. The Labor ethic has always been about equality and social justice in areas like education and health, employment opportunities, housing etc. Have we been too successful? The work of parties on the left together with trade unions has achieved so much in all of those areas that whole generations are growing up who now take all that for granted. We committed lefties know what the Nationals and the Liberals really stand for, but many people, who take their prosperity, education and medical care for granted are now what we'd call swinging voters. Shifts in opinion polls are really about this group who are too easily persuaded by the MSM that there's not much to choose between Labor and the Coalition where their interests are concerned. Right now we have a media largely dominated by one company, headed by one man, determined to paint the the current government as incompetent at best and even dangerous in its alliance with Greens. I am trusting the ALP to reorganise and revitalise itself. Meanwhile I think progressive activists of whatever party left of centre need to find a way to http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_rupert_murdoch_3/?twi. So I repeat my plea from earlier today. Where in Oz can I focus my efforts to that end?

Jason

11/06/2011Patricia WA, Yes I agree with you, what I should have said was there are some in the party that are there not because they have a strong belief in "traditional Labor values" they are there because it pays the bills which makes it hard for those that do have the best of intentions for the party!

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011Jason, You know what I find perturbing? The fact that the ALP has Don Farrell, Joe De Bruyn, Joe Tripodi, Joe Ludwig, Eddie Obeid, John Della Bosca, and a host of Junior factional woodchucks, whose sole aim in life, until they are covered with dirt for the last time, is to manipulate the party for their own ends and not to give ground until a tsunami of an outcry from all quarters comes their way about their destructive to the ALP behaviour, and then they give as little ground as possible. Or, if they are forced out of one or other parliament, then they just go back to their stacked branches, or accomodating Union, and start beavering away to get back into the positions of power they have just been removed from! Or find a proxy to achieve the same result. No wonder people in the rank and file of the party are getting fed up with it all. Though, what I find even more galling is the fact that the Coalition have people doing exactly the same thing within their party structures, the administrative and the political arm of the Nats and the Libs, yet that's just seen by the media and the electorate as 'Business as Usual' due to the perverse fact that they are the party of Business and that's just what they do in business. Sheesh!

Patricia WA

11/06/2011Have been trying to replicate the emoticons by following instructions as give from copy below pasted on my own site. I can only replicate the first two. I thought I'd try here. Tongue out full colon capital P :P wink semi-colon dash close bracket ;-) gasp full colon dash capital O :-O cry full colon apostrophe open bracket :'( embarrassed full colon dollar sign :$ kiss open bracket capital K close bracket (courtesy of TT's nimble fingers)

Patricia WA

11/06/2011I forgot kiss (K) But obviously they all work here. So what is going wsrong at my wordpress site http://polliepomes.wordpress.com/2011/05/10/think-badly-of-malcolm-honi-soit-qui-mal-y-pense/ where I have been practising?

Jason

11/06/2011FS, The thing that is even worse as Rodney Cavalier has pointed out many times that some of those you mentioned that are from NSW has seen over 100 sub branches close under their stewardship!and I would imagine it's the same all over the country that's why we have approx 45,000 members that are getting older and dying, and they keep on saying move on people nothing to see here!

NormanK

11/06/2011Patricia WA If only life were that simple. [i]TPS[/i] is created using an application called BlogEngine. [i]polliepomes[/i] is created using WordPress, as is [i]Cafe Whispers[/i]. Some of the emoticons are recognised by both applications but others are not. All of the social networking sites have slight variations. You might find this list helpful: http://en.support.wordpress.com/smilies/ or this: http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Smilies You will have already noticed that [i]TPS[/i] uses square bracket b square bracket for bold whereas the [i]Cafe[/i] uses <b>. It depends on how the application was written.

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011NormanK, You are the font of all blog tech wisdom. Or, at least you know where to go to find it. :)

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011D Mick Weir, You probably don't remember it, but just to be clear, in case ASIO are reading this ( ;) ), 'The Little Red Book' was an Australian production put out by some Maoists at Sydney Uni, with particular application to the Oz scene, as opposed to the Big Red Book from Communist China itself. I sort of fancied myself as a bit of an avant garde reactionary in those days. I blame the NSW Library system, of course, for putting on their shelves 'PlayPower' by Richard Neville of 'Oz' infamy, which I read and thought quite revolutionary in its precepts. I was only 14, so that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. :$

lyn

11/06/2011Hi Norman K While you are there, would you tell me how long copied text will stay in my mouse? How long have I got before I paste the text. Also if possible do you know the basics, without putting you to trouble or too much time "What is the difference in the price like they range from say $20 to $140. The reason I am asking is, I purchased a new mouse and paid $120, because as you know I copy and paste everyday with preparing Today's Links" I think I just wore my old one out. Cheers :):):):)

Patricia WA

11/06/2011Thanks, Norman K! (K) (K) (k) I seem to remember that I like hairy men!

Patricia WA

11/06/2011But obviously I have short term memory issues. I forgot upper case on that last one! :$

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011FS @ 6:05 PM, umm I have no wish to put you in the same league as someone else I recently admonished for making assumptions. :) The Little Red Book (circa 1970?) was one of the 'bibles' of our wannabe renegade group of larrikins. We took great pleasure in reading excerpts to the 'great unwashed masses' of our fellow students. Heady days indeed.

Tom of Melbourne

11/06/2011Is honesty in blogging important? I happened to notice that Patricia recently said she was a member of The Sex Party. I think she asserted this as evidence of her lack of homophobia. Next I noticed that Patricia has asserted today at TPS that she is a member of the ALP. This surprised me, because I recall that it is against ALP rules to be a member of another political party. For example - “People joining the WA Branch of the ALP are required to declare on the application form they are not a member of any other political party,” http://www.wa.alp.org.au/join So is Patricia fibbing about her membership of political parties and commitments? Or is she fibbing to the ALP about her lack of membership of other political parties? Come clean Pat, which is it?

NormanK

11/06/2011Hi lyn First let me say that I am no tech-head. I'm just someone who figures that you are either 'in' or 'out', by which I mean that for a long time I avoided anything to do with computers because I didn't understand them and I didn't have time to apply myself to learning about them. Once I decided to learn about them, I threw myself into it so that I could at least understand 'why' something happened instead of shouting at my monitor when something disappeared or turned to mud. As for your mouse, as a Production Manager I found (and many others here may have an opinion in this regard) that when purchasing something that you don't know much about, the best advice is to look at the price range and jump to the middle of it. In your case, a range of between $20 and $140 means you should focus on the $70 to $100 mark. The bottom end of the range will be produced from poor materials and/or is approaching obsolescence and probably has very few features. The top end of the range usually contains more features (some of which you may never understand or use), be 'cutting edge' new new stuff complete with glitches and/or is charging you a bit extra for the brand name. You may have paid a bit too much for your mouse but at least you can be confident that it is made from quality materials. Now, for your copying and pasting. The information that you copy is not stored in your mouse. It is stored in what amounts to a virtual clipboard on your computer which can hold only one item at a time. The clipboard will hold that information indefinitely until the next time you copy something i.e you can paste it as many times as you like but next time you copy something it will replace what was previously there. I don't know how you compile your [i]Lyn's Links[/i] but with [i]TPS[/i]'s comments section playing up at the moment, may I recommend that you start your very own clipboard. I have one on my desktop (in fact I'm drafting on it now). I'm on an [i]Apple[/i] computer but if memory serves me correctly [i]Windows[/i] uses a simple application called [i]Notepad[/i]. Open up a new page, call it 'clipboard' or 'notes' or something similar that means something to you and leave it (or a link to it) on your desktop. When you write a new comment, do it on your 'clipboard' because it means you can muck around with it to your heart's content and even take hours to complete it if you want. Copy and paste the comment (or Lyn's links) into the comments box and fiddle with it until you're happy to post it. If the gremlins pinch it off you, at least you still have a copy from which you can start again. Hopefully TT has started to do something like this. Once your comment has been successfully posted you can delete the draft from your 'clipboard'. It is also a good place to whack something that strikes you as being interesting but you don't want to save the whole document. Patricia WA [quote]I seem to remember that I like hairy men![/quote] If commercial television is to be believed, there are not many of you left. "Errrrr, he's grown a beard. Someone should have a quiet word with him. Yuck!"

Patricia WA

11/06/2011Thank you for that information, ToM. I was not aware of that. I actually thought the http://www.sexparty.org.au/index.php/news/asp-news-a-updates/1092 worth my support and didn't even about think my life-long membership of the ALP when I filled out their donation and membership details. Yes, I do think honesty in blogging is important, just as courtesy and personal privacy are.

lyn

11/06/2011Hi Ad Oh Dear look now: The blogosphere's delusions on Grandeur, Don Arthur, Club Troppo [quote]If you didn’t know already, the task of serious investigative political journalism is being undertaken by a dedicated cohort of political bloggers, such as Grogs Gamut, Larvatus Prodeo, [b]The Political Sword[/b], and others. They are not paid and do it for the love of it, hence they are also not subject to the whims of a proprietor. You’ll get more analysis of policies here than in a month of Sundays in the local rags or TV stations.[/quote] But much of the blogosphere’s political analysis is conceptually derivative. [b]For example, Hillbilly Skeleton’s insightful piece on issue framing for The Political Sword turned out to be a cut and paste from George Lakoff’s 2004 manifesto (as Alex White pointed out).[/b] http://clubtroppo.com.au/2011/06/11/the-blogospheres-delusions-of-grandeur/

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011Jason, FS Andrew Leigh in his book Disconnected has a chapter on politics which ranges over a number of interesting issues. He opens the chapter with a quote from a talk given by Mark Latham at Melbourne University September 2005 [i]In a gathering such as this, I’m sure there are some young idealistic people interested in running for parliament. I have to say to you, as frankly and sincerely as I can, don’t do it. It doesn’t give me any pleasure to say this, but I need to be honest with you. The system is fundamentally sick and broken, and there are other more productive and satisfying ways in which you can contribute to society. Whatever you do, don’t get involved in organised politics. Let me give you ten good reasons why you should do something else with your time.[/i] A link to the lecture (if you really want to read it) is here: http://www.unimelb.edu.au/speeches/speeches2005.html AL closes the chapter with [b]Hoping for a better politics[/b] where he discusses the suicide of federal politician Greg Wiltonand the all too brief cessation of hostilities in parliament. He also points to this piece by former Latham speech writer Dennis Glover: [b]Ten reasons why politics can be great[/b] in response to Latham http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/ten-reasons-why-politics-can-be-great/2005/09/28/1127804542837.html The Glover piece IS worth reading (and may be better understood in context by reading Lathams ramblings.) AL ranges across a number of issues around Trust and confidence in politicians, Electoral participation, Knowledge and Interest in politics, Political Party membership and Activism. Great reading He informs me that from a peak of 75,000 (claimed) members - 1.2% of the adult population ALP mmbership declined to about 45,000 in 1958. Current membership is about 43,000 or 0.27% of the adult population. Similarly the the Liberal Party has declined from a high of about 1.5% in the late sixties to about 0.5% now. There has been a marked change of mix in the composition in party membership and there is a quote (circa 1974) from Kim Beasly Snr [i]'When I joined the Labor Party, it contained the cream of the working class. But as I look about me now, all I see are the dregs of the middle class.'[/i] I really liked this bit from AL: [i]'Saying that Australian politicians are poorly regarded is a bit like saying that bushwalkers prefer not to tread on brown snakes - a statement so blindingly obvious that you wonder why anyone wastes their breath on it.'[/i] Anyway I guess my point on this is that the decline in membership is an ongoing concern for all parties and the challenge is about making politics in general relevant to more peoples daily lives.

NormanK

11/06/2011Sorry this is a bit off-topic, I know we're supposed to be talking about cats this weekend, but have I mentioned how much I dislike yapping dogs? Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! As luck would have it, I'm owned by a beautiful Border Collie Cattle Dog cross who is a contender for Smartest Dog in the Southern Hemisphere (just between you and me, I tell her she [b]is[/b] the Smartest Dog in the Southern Hemisphere). Three sharp woofs means the mailman has been past and left something in the box. One sharp woof means the lousy bugger has gone straight past leaving us nothing. But it seems that every second house on the street has a little fluffy dog. Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! They don't bark because they have some information to pass on. They bark because they love the sound of their own voice and it makes them feel important. Sure, there might have been a strange dog on the street presenting a clear and present danger but these little yappers just don't know when to shut-up and keep going for ten minutes after they've gone. Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! "What's that boy? The house is on fire and your mistress is trapped inside?" Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! "Oh, I see. You thought you may have seen the shadow of a bird flying past. Good dog." Now, I don't dislike the dogs as such. Every dog has its redeeming qualities and I'm sure their owners love them very much. It's just their incessant yapping and calling attention to themselves that drives me nuts. Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap!

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011Lyn @ 8:23 PM I wouldn't get too worried about Don Arthur's post which I take to be something to encourage thought and comment about the 'real worth' of the blogosphere. I don't know who Don Arthur is in his other life/lives and whether he is worth fifteen terrabits of fame let alone my measly fifteen kilobits, however, his closing comment is worthy of consideration and thought: [i]'But before bloggers and their readers declare victory in their imagined war against journalists, maybe it’s time to stop and think. Why do so many people still pay to read journalism but ignore blogs even when they’re free?'[/i] Some of my thoughts include: * 'should bloggers and journalists [i]be at war[/i] or would we all be better informed if we worked more co-operatively?' * 'do any of us, journalists, bloggers, commenters and writers of letters to the editor really make a difference?' * 'has anything original ever been written since Shakespeare or possibly even before him?' Take it as just another discussion in this wonderous world that is the 'Interwebby Thingy'.

lyn

11/06/2011Hi Norman K Thankyou so much, what excellent information you have posted for me I am indebted to you. I have never really known how clipboard works and really never thought much about it. I have notepad and have never used that either. What I do is post my links on an email, there I do the setting out, changing and whatever, after each link I save to my documents in case I accidently delete anything. Then when I'm finished I email to myself for safe keeping, until I am ready to post on TPS. Clipboard sounds quicker I will try in the morning. Thankyou again Norman K. Cheers

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011NormanK @ 9:09 PM, whoa, what an interesting comment. If I were so inclined I could take the 'yapping dogs' as a similie for commenters on blogs. And if I was feeling really inferior (which I am not :)) I could see myself as one of those yappers instead of being like your [i]beautiful Border Collie Cattle Dog cross who is a contender for Smartest Dog in the Southern Hemisphere[/i]

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011Oh dear, allright. They should just rename their blog, 'V for Vendetta', or 'The Jealous, Middle-Aged Men's Blog'. I mean, really, who didn't realise that a blog about 'Framing' was with reference to George Lakoff? I bet those self-same, self-important, self-opinionated Thought Police at Club Troppo are running their 'Plagiarism Software' over the other 26 blogs that I have written for The Political Sword, even as I write this. Good luck, they'll be wasting their time. While they are at it they had better inform the Political Science Department of Adelaide University that one of their students from the last 10 years is guilty of plagiarising my original work for their assignments. Not that I care because I appreciate imitation as the sincerest form of flattery, and the sharing around of good ideas is what is most important to me. Inspirational even. Not their silly little 'rules'. Which is why what concerns me more is translating universally-powerful themes to the Australian context in order to pull the wool back up off the eyes of those that may read what I have written. Some stuffed shirts don't even realise that their boring little blog has taken to scandal-mongering about someone who writes on another, more popular, blog just because they don't play by their 'rules'. How conservative these pathetic, so-called 'radical centrist' individuals seem to me with their tut-tutting and new, even more sensorious drivel. Not that they are going to stop me blogging. I have been going since long before 'Club Troppo' came on the scene. With original, thought-provoking blogs that people enjoy reading. And I will be here long after their tendentious little, boring as bat's pee blog has dried up and blown away due to lack of interest. Which is the way it was sputtering along until they decided to gin up interest in what I have done recently. Which increased their readership, marginally it seems to me, but just goes to prove how I am the interesting one and not them. As in, if my blogs weren't so powerful, interesting and enjoyable, no one such as they would be taking the time to create a furore about them. Although, as I have said previously, I have now relented in the face of their pedantry, and I will figure out how to hyperlink and do it in future if I need to. Also, I make this point forcefully. If they want to run their silly little software ruler over my posts, they will find conclusive proof that the vast majority of the words of the ones they question are all my own original work. Powerful work that they appear to be obsessed with for some reason. As are 100% of my 26 other posts for TPS. Maybe it's because my work has juice flowing through it, but not bile and spite like on other blogs, and nor is it as dry as a dead Dingo's donger, like theirs is.

Ad astra reply

11/06/2011Hi Lyn Don Arthur’s piece seems to be designed to put the Fifth Estate back in its box. Yet isn’t Club Troppo part of the Fifth Estate? Of the thirteen comments, there were few in support of Arthur’s position. Several lamented the poor state of Fourth Estate journalism. So I’m left wondering what the point of the article really was and why he felt his argument was enhanced by his gratuitous sideswipe at Hillbilly Skeleton’s piece. D Mick Weir quotes Arthur’s conclusion: [i]But before bloggers and their readers declare victory in their imagined war against journalists, maybe it’s time to stop and think. Why do so many people still pay to read journalism but ignore blogs even when they’re free?'[/i] and makes some telling comments, to which I can only ask what evidence there is that we in the Fifth Estate are ‘at war’ with journalists rather than simply pointing to their shortcomings. And I don’t recall anyone in the Fifth Estate ‘declaring victory’. Finally, I ask: “Are people really paying to read journalism, or to read newspapers? And how does he know they are ignoring blogs?”

lyn

11/06/2011Hi D Mick Weir I told you, you were confucius and you are, please back up on your pedestal you go. Thankyou Mick Weir. They are not judges and juries or the employed private detectives of the blogosphere. I wish they would stop picking on people but, we don't pick on them. I know I am much better informed since I came to TPS, and our blog is much more interesting than the newspapers that's for sure. A least we keep each other informed. I guess you are right, read the article again and there are compliments there, but the other thing is at least they must be reading our blog. We have been put in the same category as Grog and Larvatus Prodeo I see. What did I say before, we must be getting some attention and lots of it. [quote]Some of my thoughts include: * 'should bloggers and journalists be at war or would we all be better informed if we worked more co-operatively?' * 'do any of us, journalists, bloggers, commenters and writers of letters to the editor really make a difference?' * 'has anything original ever been written since Shakespeare or possibly even before him?' Take it as just another discussion in this wonderous world [/quote][quote]that is the 'Interwebby Thingy'.[/quote] Cheers :):):)(K)(K)(K)(K)

Patricia WA

11/06/2011Well, Norman K, none of us is perfect. Yapping is something which small dogs do, but I am sure their owners will tell you all about their redeeming features. My best friend who lives, eats and sleeps with me is Tacker! (Actually that might explain my liking for hirsute gents!) I bought him as a Shitsu/Maltese cross, but I was cautioned that he might have a 'bit of Australian terrier' in him. Which turned out to be true and has made him into a really intelligent and lovable dog, adored by and patted every morning and afternoon by kids on their way to and from school. He makes friends everywhere and is only inclined to bark if humans come inside our gate, or if dogs dare pass our place. Big black crows get shouted off the premises too, though smaller birds are tolerated. Which is just as well since we have lots of trees in our yard. As well he does seem to seem to understand that once evening is upon us we have to be quiet unless someone is actually at the front or back door. So I don't think he barks just for the sound of his own voice! He knows he has a job to do of guarding the house. His best friend (next to me, I hope!) is Sheba our grey tabby, and he sees it as his job to protect her and her food tray and send off any invading felines in the neighbourhood. Sheba is pleased about that, particularly since a marauding black and white tom from the next street would come around here even more often than he does if it weren't for Tacker. He's a notorious nuisance throughout the street. The noise of cats fighting, by the way, is far worse than that of any yapping dog! Particularly in the middle of the night! Tacker's manners are impeccable and he hardly needed training to sit and stay. One of my favorite times of the day is after our walk when we come back for breakfast with the crossword over coffee for me and a lamb shank bone for Tacker outside on the verandah. I actually give him his bone just before I bring out my toast and coffee. He lies waiting for me with it in front of him until I have sat down ready to eat. Only then will he get stuck into it. Occasionally I have to go out for breakfast and I'll come back to find he hasn't eaten his bone and will not do so until I sit down with a cup of coffee to keep him company. How many fellahs would sit quietly and wait for the women in their lives to have cleaned their teeth, brushed their hair, donned their nighties, climbed into bed and and pulled the sheet up to their neck, before getting up on their own side? Again, no training. Just one of nature's gentlemen!

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011 [quote]Some of my thoughts include: * 'should bloggers and journalists be at war or would we all be better informed if we worked more co-operatively?' * 'do any of us, journalists, bloggers, commenters and writers of letters to the editor really make a difference?' * 'has anything original ever been written since Shakespeare or possibly even before him?'[/quote] DMW, Some of my answers include: * I'm a pacifist. I've never considered myself 'at war' with anyone who writes professionally or amateurishly, regularly or irregularly, in the MSM or in the blogosphere. I just like to put my 2c-worth into the mix, and if journalists do the same I just think that places us all on the same playing field. It may not be a level playing field, as they have more going for them when it comes to such things as access to newsmakers in parliament and at press conferences, plus all the resources of a full-on support team, but it is true, I think, that we are in a contest together, a contest of ideas. Not a war. * Do any of us make a difference? Answer: Who knows? However, I hope so, otherwise, what's the point? Anyway, it's an unquantifiable thing, at the end of the day. * Has anything original ever been written anyway, or wtte? Answer: Same as with music. The notes are the same, it's how you arrange them on the page that makes them 'different'. Some may have little bits in common with other 'original' efforts, take, for example, James Brown's 'Pappa's Got A Brand New Bag'. The words and the riffs have been used in other songs. Those other songs are still original, unless they have copied it word for word, and note for note. Same with Shakespeare himself, actually. Who would disagree that 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead' by Tom Stoppard is an original work, even though it uses parts of the play 'Hamlet' in it? So, basically, therefore, my motto is: 'Everybody got to live together, why can't we live together?' Which comes from a song by Timmy Thomas before the Thought Police jump out from behind the curtains and accuse me of plagiarising that line from him. ;-)

NormanK

11/06/2011D Mick Weir Only ones from over the fence. Patricia WA What DMW said @ 09:28 PM. This medicine is not to be taken literally.

lyn

11/06/2011Hi Ad Thankyou for your reply about those other people. I don't feel so worried now. There are a lot of holes in their words. Does that make them hollow. We have got a magnificent blog TPS, they are just trying to be as good. We are a big Castle with a lot of brilliant people in it. Cheers Cheers

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011I don't have a dog, or a cat anymore. I have native birds and animals roaming my yard. They are brilliant and keep me endlessly amused with their peregrinations. I don't have any neighbours either, which is a blessing. :) I think I'm very lucky.

NormanK

11/06/2011Jeez, I give up. [i](Rolls eyes, throws hands in the air in exasperation)[/i] Too subtle? Too oblique? Where's TT when I need him? Thank goodness for you, Mr Weir.

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011Ad @ 9:44 PM [i]Finally, I ask: “Are people really paying to read journalism, or to read newspapers? And how does he know they are ignoring blogs?”[/i] As to ignoring blogs - I can offer no evidence however I suspect that more people read newspapers than blogs whether that be either the printed and/or the online versions. Do people pay for journalism? - hmm interesting question. For my part I pay for a copy of the Weekend AFR once a week (most weeks) and I buy it for the 'journalism' certainly not the ads that are in it. I guess I am different to most, but I do tend toward what I percieve to be good journalism and the AFR provides my dose. [i]'... isn’t Club Troppo part of the Fifth Estate?'[/i] NO, there is no 'fifth estate' we are firmly part of the fourth estate (if there is really such a thing). To my mind it is a 'delusion of grandeur' to think that the blogosphere is it's own 'estate'. The blogosphere is only another medium amongst the mass of media, simply, another way to communicate ideas, opinions or whatever. It is not special or separate from any other medium that transmits messages. And some may be disinterested to know FS has now earned a separate post @ Club Troppo: Feral Skeleton hits back at “sensorious drivel” - Don Athur - 22:33 http://clubtroppo.com.au/2011/06/11/feral-skeleton-hits-back-at-sensorious-drivel/ And a delightful pic to boot!

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011NormanK in a vain attempt to bring this blog back on topic all I can say is: [i]Miaow[/i]

Patricia WA

11/06/2011[i]Woof![/i]

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011And now for something completely different: http://www.facebook.com/pages/RIP-Casey-Bonifacio/190739084310365 Casey was a great young man who was an inspiration in life and is now proving to be an inspiration in death. It was a pleasure and a privelege to know him. Our trials and tribulations seem small by comparison at this moment.

Feral Skeleton

11/06/2011DMW, It sure is a sad story. I know of one similar where the young person in question didn't even make 5 years old. :(

D Mick Weir

11/06/2011FS, Casey was 'only 19' Sobering and it certainly gives another perspective on 'life' Apparently the Gold Coast Suns wore black armbands in his honour today. here is another link http://albury.iprime.com.au/index.php/news/prime-news/tears-and-tributes-for-casey-video

D Mick Weir

12/06/2011FS, bravo on your comment @ 11:17 PM on DA's post :)

Jason

12/06/2011DMW @ June 11. 2011 08:52 PM Please forgive my not replying! as I've just got home after watching Geelong have their 12th win in a row! However when I'm in better condition I shall read the links you provided and give a reply. Re Captcha Bingo jason introw

janice

12/06/2011[quote]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCHoVvb6kOM&amp [/quote] This is well worth watching - Kerry O'Brien lecture

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011DMW, It's just getting a wee bit obsessive I think. Funny thing is I don't remember CT making as big a stink about Julie Bishop's, that would be the Deputy Leader of Her Majesty's Federal Opposition, commission of the same 'crime'. Except worse because she has ghost writers put out her work under her name. I'm over it. This is the last comment I'm going to make about it. I'm putting up a new post next week and 'Damn the torpedoes!' (Hint: It's going to be boring and straightforward and 100% my own words, except for a few dry statistics, which I will fulsomely attribute, of course. Which will no doubt prompt the middle-aged men in their labcoats, or is that raincoats, over at CT to say, "See, told you she couldn't write an interesting contribution without using someone else's work.") Now, as TPS is beneath them, I know they will never read this, and you won't tell them, will you, DMW? ;-)

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011janice, Thank you so much for the link. I caught bits and pieces of the speech on TV yesterday and wished I could have heard it all however didn't know where to look for it. Thank you. :D

lyn

12/06/2011[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]The Cause/Effect trap, Ash, Ash's Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] guess what Mr Abbott. Then that will affect the jobs not only in the mining industry, but the rest of the country as well. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/the-causeeffect-trap/ [i]ALP: Faulkner's call for reform , Gary Sauer-Thomson, Public Opinion [/i] They have reduced the ALP to a political force of the working class, outer-suburban "battler" vote;one that is finding the hard edged conservatism of the Abbott Liberals increasingly attractive. http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2011/06/alp-faulkners-c.php#more [i]A "balance of Power" lunch with the three independents, Peter Martin[/i] A “balance of power” lunch or dinner for six with the three independents -Tony Windsor, Rob Oakeshott & Bob Katter - in one of Parliament’s fine dining rooms during a Federal Parliamentary sitting week. So far $2000 http://www.petermartin.com.au/ [i]Reasons to be cheerful, part 2, John Quiggin[/i] Capacity for annual output of new solar modules is now approaching 50GW (peak), at which point solar PV would be one of the main sources of new generating capacity, comparable to wind and gas http://johnquiggin.com/2011/06/11/reasons-to-be-cheerful-part-2/#more-9898 [i]The Australian's partisanship: response to Tim Dunlop, Sponge-ist[/i] The Australian is a paper with many limitations. It is absurdly touchy and self-obsessed, it allows the personal vendettas and/or ignorance of senior staff to affect their content, and it publishes any old poorly-researched rubbish http://spongeist.wordpress.com/2011/06/09/the-australians-partisanship-response-to-tim-dunlop/ [i]Abbott's very own Devil's Island - for the protection of Asylum Seekers! Mark Thomson, Seeking Asylum Down Under[/i] They were picked up by the Australian Navy in late 2001 before reaching Australia, and have spent their lives since in detention. These children have been in detention now since 2001, as part of the Australian Government’s “Pacific Solution”, http://seekingasylumdownunder2.blogspot.com/ [i]Senate plans Quigley wrecking-ball for Estimates, Ry Crozier, ItNews[/i] Turnbull had previously told Quigley at an NBN Co transparency review in Sydney that he was satisfied the NBN Co chief had told the truth. http://www.itnews.com.au/News/260107,senate-plans-quigley-wrecking-ball-for-estimates.aspx [i]Labor sets new vehicle pollution rules, ABC[/i] They will need to make a 50 per cent cut to the emission of hydrocarbons, a 70 per cent cut to oxides of nitrogen and a 90 per cent reduction on particulate matter. NBN Co appears before Senate Estimates from 7pm on Thursday 16 July. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/11/3241691.htm [i]Abbott denies Nauru asylum tour a stunt, ABC[/i] Nauru president Marcus Stephen will join Mr Abbott and Opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison in an inspection of the island's facilities. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/12/3241817.htm?section=justin

Ad astra reply

12/06/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

jj

12/06/2011FS and others, 1. I have never stated that the MLA should get away with anything. If producers want to take the industry group to court, then good on them, so they should. However, it is the minister that signs off on the money that goes to the industry, and it is the department (whom the minister is responsible for) who is responsible for final oversight. Therefore to claim that Ludwig is resolved of all responsibility, and that his only failure was that he was being "too nice", is just absurd! Whether it be that he was too nice or too harsh, the fact is, he didnt do his job very well. 2. I am not in any way suggesting that there is some sort of conspiracy surrounding the four corners program and the release date, what i am saying is that it is ridiculous that it took media embarrassment for the minister to act. If Ludwig had of acted in December last year, rather than just sweeping it under the carpet, than most of the problems surrounding a possible suspension would not have cropped up. Once again, this is a failure of both the MLA and the minister. 3. No i do not put animal welfare over money, and neither do the producers, but i also believe that this could have been handled in a way that could help the cattle, without shutting down the whole Northern Cattle industry. At the moment producers have no idea when they will be able to get back to business; whether they will be compensated; what the new standards are; what their properties are now worth etc etc. I mean, just imagine if the government tomorrow shut down the whole coal industry, due to a media report showing that those living close to the mines were ending up sick due to dust inhalation. Would that be ok, or a knee jerk reaction? Was it necessary to shut down the whole industry, or could they have just shut down the know culprits? These same questions apply to the current situation. 4. I have already explained what the Coalition's position is on this. The Coalition has stated that they believe the current situation in Indonesia is terrible and should be fixed. They supported the governments FIRST position of a suspension of acceptance of Australian cattle into the worst Indonesian slaughtering houses, followed up by a swift inquiry. The Coalition believes that shutting down the whole industry, and punishing the producers (who have done nothing wrong) is stupid and damaging not just in the short and medium term domestically, but also damaging for our international live trade industry reputation (sovereign risk) in the long term. You may not agree (although it was the governments policy just a week ago), but this is the Coalitions policy. Anyway, i will let you carry on with your discussion about the end of the Labor Party.

Gravel

12/06/2011NormanK Regarding your yap yap yap piece. I may be way off course here but I took it to mean the media, shockjocks and Abbott. Anyhow, I enjoyed and it made me think of how our little Foxy/Terrier doesn't do what you have described. Club Troppo, I used to read it years ago when I didn't read many blogs, I was a bit over my simple head. I dropped it after reading Ad Astra, whom I could understand. FS, you go girl, you sure do write great stuff, maybe perversely other like minded people that aren't away of The Political Sword will come on over and have a look and we get more positive contributors. :-)

macca

12/06/2011One thing to be thankful for. At least by attacking TPS for the last week or so they've left the PM alone. We'll take the bullets for you Julia. I mean we are your number one fan club.....aren't we? Everyone says so!

Michael

12/06/2011Today's Bad Abbott. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/tony-abbott-to-nauru-for-boat-talks/story-fn59niix-1226073265853 Here 'Shouldabeen' tells us that he has a special insight (perhaps even offering advice?), to the Malaysian government's response to asylum seekers, including: "There will be no caning for boatpeople in Nauru." Yet, he said: "It will almost certainly occur in Malaysia." Earlier in the article he discusses "adult" discussions between governments, then he trundles out sensationalist 'almost certainties' like that of caning in Malaysia. Not too many governments in the world will welcome someone who describes himself as a "would be national leader" (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/12/3241817.htm) although I reckon if he can wrap those lisping lips of his around 'would be', he should try that little bit harder and take up... "Shouldabeen".

janice

12/06/2011jj, Well, I am truly amazed to see a post of yours that presents your view/argument rationally and without directing blame/malice to the government. Congratulations and may we see more. :) Mind you, I am not saying I necessarily agree with you entirely but you do make good points. [quote]No i do not put animal welfare over money, and neither do the producers, but i also believe that this could have been handled in a way that could help the cattle, without shutting down the whole Northern Cattle industry.[/quote] IMO, it is unfortunate that the government was put into the position of being forced to suspend the live export trade. The government warned the MLA back in December to take the necessary steps to rectify the situation of animal cruelty in Indonesia, so when the dung hit the fan 6 months later it was discovered that MLA had done nothing. We must remember that the stakes here are higher than just the NT producers, because the fall-out would involve the entire Australian meat export trade. Animal welfare is a world-wide concern and for Australia to drag its feet over this publicised "event" would soon erupt in bans of Australian meat on the world market. Look at the furore that sheep muelsing caused to our wool trade. Again, the suspension is "up to" 6 months, ample time for the Industry to get their skates on and work with all concerned to fix the problem quickly and if they do so the suspension could be lifted in a few weeks. It was necessary to suspend the trade to end the cruelty because otherwise it would have been business as usual for many months while enquiries are held. This way, the industry is forced to act quickly in the interests of their producers. There is nothing on earth that will move people to fix a problem than to rip a hole in their pockets.

lyn

12/06/2011Hi Michael Another excellent "Today's Bad Abbott" thankyou so much Michael keep up the good work. No comments on Brendan Nicholson' piece, wonder how many people are reading his column as against "The Political Sword" Grog's Gamut, and Larvatus Prodeo. Looks like none, article has been up all day yesterday. Not inviting comments eh! No comments on the ABC article either. Don Arthur said: [quote]But before bloggers and their readers declare victory in their imagined war against journalists, maybe it’s time to stop and think. Why do so many people still pay to read journalism but ignore blogs even when they’re free?[/quote] Last I read was, readership of the newspapers is declining, the journalists are going behind a paywall in October. From other reports not looking good, if Mr and Mrs Public won't pay for the newspapers are they going to pay for online journalists not probable. I would rather read Grog's report on Newspoll results, parliament question time, anything Grog writes, than read the online journalists. Maybe they don't realise how many brilliant writers there are out there on the blogs. I think they can all claim victory. The Matt Cowgill piece they mention was posted here in "Today Links" it was a brilliant article and drew accolades all over the blogoshpere and on Twitter. [quote]It’s true that Australian political journalism could be a lot better. Not long ago blogger Matt Cowgill used ABS statistics to show how silly some of News Limited’s budget coverage was[/quote]. So you see in one breath they say the bloggers can't claim victory but then change when they breath out. The Political Sword is receiving an incredible amount of publicity all day yesterday and again this morning at least on 2 bloggs that I can name so far, lots of comments coming in. I might do a count on the comments "The Political Sword has received on other blogs over the last few days. I will be checking them all this morning. You all will be suprised how popular "The Political Sword" is, when I provide the count. Oh now you won't we knew anyway. [b][quote]A popular writer at leading Australian political blog The Political Sword has hit back at[/b] Don Arthur, Club Troppo[/quote]. [b]Leading Australian Blog[/b], thankyou for the compliment Club Troppo we will wear the popular hat with pride. Cheers

Sue

12/06/2011Hi Lyn To add to Abbott's list- the chatter-up of barmaids. Funnily enough the MSM didn't print the picture. I wonder why because Abbott claimed the barmaid was prettier then Julia.

D Mick Weir

12/06/2011FS @ 08:02 AM I am taking the Sgt Schulz option: [i]'I know notheeng'[/i] :)

D Mick Weir

12/06/2011jj @ 8:19 AM, mostly what janice said @ 09:05 AM It was great to read that comment more like that and I propose that you be inducted as a card carrying Swordillian :)

Ad astra reply

12/06/2011Hi Lyn Thank you for your neat summary of the current activity on the blogosphere and for your comments. I agree that Michael’s ‘Today’s Bad Abbott’ contributions are both entertaining and germane. It is satisfying to see [i]The Political Sword[/i] referred to as a [i]…leading Australian political blog[/i] and FS as a [i]…popular writer…[/i] at [i]TPS[/i], a thoroughly deserved accolade. The stats show a jump in visits with FS’s last piece [i]Post Truth Politics[/i], as well as with [i]What have we done to deserve an Opposition Leader like Tony Abbott?[/i]. [i]Club Troppo[/i] has afforded us publicity, although the carry on about FS’s piece was both unwelcome and unnecessary. Try as I did, I couldn’t find the Matt Gowgill article that you mentioned was in your links – when was it? Could you please furnish me with the link?

Ad astra reply

12/06/2011D Mick Weir As we both know, the Fifth Estate is simply convenient shorthand to distinguish the blogosphere from the MSM. Wikipediia says: [i]The term "Fifth Estate" has no fixed meaning, but is used to describe any class or group in society other than the clergy (First Estate), the nobility (Second Estate), the commoners (Third Estate), and the press (Fourth Estate). It has been used to describe civil society (including trade unions) and the poor or the proletariat. It can also be used to describe media outlets (including the blogosphere) that see themselves in opposition to mainstream media (the official Press)…Nimmo and Combs assert that political pundits constitute a Fifth Estate. Media researcher Stephen D. Cooper argues that bloggers are the Fifth Estate. William Dutton has argued that the Fifth Estate is not simply the blogging community, nor an extension of the media, but 'networked individuals' enabled by the Internet in ways that can hold the other estates accountable.[/i] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Estate When I use the term it is to denote the blogosphere that is separate from (rather than in opposition to) the MSM, recognizing that the MSM too has its own blogs. As with all unofficial labels, so long as we share an understanding of what it denotes, we will be on the same page.

D Mick Weir

12/06/2011NormanK I missed a very important and salient point in your comment @ June 11. 2011 09:09 PM. [i]'As luck would have it, [b]I'm owned by[/b] a beautiful Border Collie Cattle Dog cross ...'[/i] Being owned by three wonderful moggies I understand your luck. Sometimes I fall into the trap of getting 'owned' by the [i]'yap, yap, yap'[/i] as well :P

NormanK

12/06/2011Gravel Great to see you firing on all cylinders. 'Yapping' was a contemporary work of art and therefore no interpretation is invalid although some interpretations more correctly reflect the intention of the artist. As did your take on it. :) jj May I join janice in complimenting you on the coherence of your recent comment and the noticeable lack of emotional invective. Keep up the good work. Not to say that I agree with you but that's not the point. FS I look forward to your next boring blog. :D

D Mick Weir

12/06/2011Ad @ June 12. 2011 11:43 AM I stand corrected and plead guilty to not having researched the topic before (ill)informing my opinion :)

lyn

12/06/2011Hi Ad This is the article, Matt drew some excellent comments everywhere. The article is well researched. [i]What is the typical Australian’s income? Matt Cowgill, We Are All Dead[/i] [quote]The Australian itself has called for reductions in ‘middle class welfare’, so either the editors have changed their mind, or they have a misguided sense of what constitutes a middle income in modern Australia.[/quote] http://mattcowgill.wordpress.com/2011/05/11/what-is-the-typical-australians-income/ I have started my count on the amazing number of comments "The Political Sword" is attracting on other blogs. Cheers

Tom of Melbourne

12/06/2011[i]"the carry on about FS’s piece was both unwelcome and unnecessary.” [/i] Not to mention downright embarrassing, humiliating and reflective of the level of originality and independent thinking of TPS.

NormanK

12/06/2011Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap! Yap!

Jason

12/06/2011"Not to mention downright embarrassing, humiliating and reflective of the level of originality and independent thinking of TPS." What is that it? is that the best you have? hardly original you've been using that tired old line along with all the other tired old lines for weeks now. What dates are you appearing at the Melbourne comedy festival?

lyn

12/06/2011Hi Sue Yes I left out the snide barmaid comment, looks like I had better open a special file. By the way, while I am here I wanted everyone to know that it is the Opposition in Nauru that Mr Abbott is meeting with, the MSM are reporting different: Nauru Opposition MPs To Put Views To Abbott & Morrison The nation’s eight opposition members representing almost half the parliament will meet with Mr Abbott at parliament house and they plan to use the time to make him aware of national issues in the island nation that are relevant to stability and development. In particular they are concerned that the current conflict between landowners and the government has the potential to cause continued instability. http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/nauru-opposition-mps-put-views-abbott-morrison/1861/91970

lyn

12/06/2011Hi Jason While you are here, I want to say a big "thankyou" to you for a comment you made on behalf of "The Political Sword". I remember you asked them to pick on Larvatus Prodeo and Grog's Gamut for authenticity. Funny you know there is another blog that may have some not so genuine articles posted in the past, I won't mention any names but everyone will know who I mean. When I finish this huge counting of the publicity comments about "The Political Sword" I might have a look at that too. People in glass houses should not throw stones. it's a long road that hasn't got a turn. Cheers

TalkTurkey

12/06/2011D Mick Weir said "jj It was great to read that comment more like that and I propose that you be inducted as a card carrying Swordillian" DMW it will take a lot more, a lot lot more, of reasoned and not-unpleasant posts from jj to convince me that s/he/it :) is anything but an ill-willian. Funny that now the Government has moved to cost beef fatcats real dough until real action is taken to improve the parlous situation, and knowing that cattle get more consideration by many than boat people, and that the Coalons can't win by fighting Govt action, har har, they now try moral leapfroggery, ha. About as moral as Children Overboard, or the Wheat Board. We know their kind of moral. D Mick, did you read the last line that s/he/it :) wrote? "Anyway, i will let you carry on with your discussion about the end of the Labor Party." S/he/it :) wishes! When I see other bloggers say something about jj saying anything positive, I might bother to read posts by s/he/it :) That's what happened this time. I don't usually bother reading anything s/he/it :) says now, it's always so s/he/itty! :) - I only read it this time because Janice and DMW said better stuff about jj than jj has ever said about anything TPS or Labor. jj can positive and nicen up or do what Jason said s/he/it :) ought to do! S/he/it :) has caused our host grief over time, and that I do not instantly forgive, let alone forget. Goodwillian? I don't think so! - Or let herm prove it over time!

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011Well, that's the ABC's interviewing template that satisfies their idea of 'Balance' then I guess. I was just watching a repeat of 7.30WA. The story was the suspension of the Live Cattle Trade to Indonesia. Two long interviews were conducted. One was with a representative of the Cattlemens Association. The first question out of the box was, "So, do you think the federal government has gone too far with this ban?" Of course the well-rehearsed response was in the positive. And so it went on in the same vein for another 5 minutes. The second interview was with a represenative from the RSPCA. The first question from the same interviewer was, "Do you think the federal government has gone far enough with this ban?" Of course the well-rehearsed response was in the positive. And so it went on in the same vein for another 5 minutes. Then, when that interview was over the presenter wrapped up the story. Notice something missing? Like a representative of the government being interviewed so as to put their position to the 7.30 viewers in WA. It almost seems enough now to the ABC to mention the government's position in comments, as opposed to actually having a living, breathing member of the government state their case and any nuances that they may want to get across to people. It just doesn't seem fair to me. Although what that has to do with today's 'Opinionalism(Opinion Journalism), I suppose is irrelevant in the scheme of things as it is now.

Jason

12/06/2011FS, A government representative surely you jest! I've become quite used to the opposition says or the shadow minister says!

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011jj, There's life in the old girl, the Labor Party, yet. Don't you worry about that. :) We may be down but we are not out.

TalkTurkey

12/06/2011Dog's Day. Let us humbly consider the nature of Dog. Dog is loyal, selfless, brave, wise beyond human understanding. I'm not going on. I'm just trying to think of qualities that preachers of various forms of voodoo belief, commonly called Religion, attribute to their spirit nonbeing. The really best thing about Dogs is, Dogs is real! With real qualities! There's lots more really good things about them, some not quite so good and a few quite undesirable. Well find me a faultless human, I think not. But yapping, yes it's annoying and it can be bloody downright infuriating especially if the yapmeister fails to try to silence the yapper. But there is another side to yapping of course, little dogs don't mostly attack enemies but they are really alert and they wake sleepers without fail, I remember some official copper saying grudgingly Yeah well dogs probably prevent 1% of the crime in the community, Huh, all the crime they prevent is like all the crime that never happened,iyswim! and little dogs are those most likely to raise the alarm. It can take lots of training and sometimes even then little dogs fail to learn to discern appropriate barking situations. But very few fail in their twin primary responsibilities, Guard Dog and Beloved. I've developed a lot of respect for little dogs since I got to know Muffin, my friend J's little Tacker-look-alike but all black same-cross (shitsu/maltese) bitch but no Australian terrier I think. Muffin reminds me all the time that, as Pointers have been bred to point, sheep-dogs to round up sheep, whippets to race like the wind, so little dogs have it deep in their DNA to be cuddled . . . and petted . . . and loved . . . and indulged . . . and let go free to persecute and defy like the Hounds of Hell any other dogs or postmen or skateboard riding kids or anything they take a fancy to do that to. And yep, to yap. Yup.

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011Wow! Unflippinbelievable!(copyright Sarah Palin). Tony Abbott, the Australian Opposition Leader, is getting to meet the Nauruan Opposition. I'm jealous. He meets all the important movers and shakers. And they're going to talk about...[quote]national issues in the island nation that are relevant to stability and development. In particular they are concerned that the current conflict between landowners and the government has the potential to cause continued instability. [/quote] Did I miss something here? I can't seem to find any reference to the 'mothballed Nauru Detention Centre'. :D

Jason

12/06/2011Can anyone inform me why these twohttp://www.flickr.com/photos/cookcommunity/5822735717/ are even there? Apart from the stunt that it is and the government have said a number of times they are not interested in "re opening" Nauru,Can the president do us all a favour and detain them in the center they love so much?

macca

12/06/2011Fortunately all of you people here are too well mannered to ask. I'm not. So I will: ToM, JJ and others, Why are you so obsessed with the debates, comments, analysis and general conversation on this blog? I'm truly, truly interested. To me The Political Sword is like the around the table chat after a nice dinner party. A party with a diverse guest list. All of whom have something to say and contribute. So why you come in and denigrate honestly held opinions and beliefs puzzles me. I get the sense that you must feel like the poor, forgotten destitute soul, standing outside in the snow, peering through the window at at others who are warm and comfortable. Enjoying convivial company around the warm, crackling,yet left of centre fire. If this is so I empathise. I too have spent many a cold night, with the arse hanging out of my pants, wishing I had something to contribute. Surprisingly I found that being polite guest worked wonders. Also, it may help if you held your dinner parties in places other than the McDonalds drive thru.

2353

12/06/2011JJ - While I don't agree with your comment its great to see some original work. FS - So the Australian Opposition Leader goes to Nauru and meets the Nauru Opposition Leader! Geez he meets all the movers and shakers doesn't he! As for the "newspaper readership" issue above, it's easy to quantify newspaper readership. The simple sum is number distributed less returns equals number sold. The assumption is that someone who buys a newspaper actually reads it (rather than say washes windows :O ). While not acknowledging there is a "war" between blogs and papers - if there is I never saw the declaration - the only guide for readership of blog sites is the page view counter on the site, which for many reasons the proprietor of the blog may or may not wish to publish.

TalkTurkey

12/06/2011Lyn, A little bird told me that you didn't miss much . . ! . . That's good spotting about the Nauruan Opposition Leader and his Entourage of Distinguished Members of his Team! OOWAH! M'mmm, and all the Admirals of the Nauruan Navy, its Generals and Billionaire Businessmen I suppose . . . Macca, I really deeply fundamentally disagree with you here. We should find as much to disagree on as possible, and this is a good place to start. Do you not disagree? Why? all right then, Why the hell not? Why should we agree to agree agreeably on everything all the time? Why can't we go on disagreeing disagreeably all the time? People will say we're in love! Jason your personalized recaptcha wins.

jj

12/06/2011Ironically enough, i thought it was David Marr that put the best case forward this morning for the Cattle Producers in Northern Australia... i was a little disappointed that Taylor, Savva and Bazza had little knowledge about the issue seeing as it had dominated the past week. I also watched Inside Business and Landline today which, if any of you want to greater understand what the producers face at the moment, is a must. On inside Business was a representative of AA Company (Australia's largest agricultural company and beef producers) who stated that the way the government has gone about this issue is wrong. He (the rep) agrees that things have to be done quickly to address the current slaughtering situation, but that there are a dozen or so high standard abattoirs in Indonesia that should be able to continue to process Australian Cattle. At the moment, producers are left in limbo, not understanding the policy outcomes the government wishes to achieve, nor a set time frame. Cattle are either stuck in holding yards on the stations, or are stuck in feedlots at major ports. Trucks, ships and other forms of labour are waiting for movement, but they are getting no indication of what is going to happen. All of this costs money! On Landline was an industry rep who outlined in stark terms what the cost is for the industry per day just in feed: $40,000; as well as other issues mentioned above. People are left in limbo, with no information other than, "we will consult with industry"... this is not just big business, there are small and medium size family producers as well; all of which rely on live exports to Indonesia for their lively food. On top of all of this is the issue of land values. Land is only worth something if it can produce something; once you take away its productive capacity it is worthless. Now although companies such as AA Co. may be able to ride out the live export storm, companies such as this will not be able to avoid the devaluation of their land holdings. When the banks and shareholders call for the annual valuations to be done (land value appreciation makes up much of the company profit side of things)they will see a massive depreciation in land values. This depreciation then affects the companies line of credit, which is at the heart of any business, as well as effecting the value of the shareholders stocks. This then culminates into becoming a perfect storm, which if this ban drags on for the expected twelve months or longer, could lead to comapanies such as this going broke. So whether it be big, medium or small cattle producers, all will be affected by the Governments decision to ban for twelve months the trade of live cattle. As for the Labor Party search for a soul, I have stated before that i believe the use of the term division by journos is just lain wrong. Whether it be the Liberal Party or the Labor party, they are both political entities and at the core of any political entity is the need for lively policy debate. Rudd did a lot to destroy internal debate, and the media has thus become molded into thinking that debate=division. If the Labor Party is to survive it must open up from the inside, because the exterior at the moment is not looking too pretty. What have they got to lose! Their current systems are obviously not working!

jj

12/06/2011that is plain not LAIN

Tom of Melbourne

12/06/2011[b]Macca [/b] -I’ll pop in here and post a comment from time to time. Mainly to point to the basic hypocrisy of this site. If this site was called “The ALP Club” or “Putting the Coalition to the Verbal Sword” or “The Political Blancmange”, it wouldn’t attract any criticism from me. Blog sites are entitled to appeal to a particular orientation if they wish. My criticism is that this site has a pretence of being independent, of [i]“Putting politicians and commentators to the verbal sword”. [/i] It doesn’t do this. It adopts a blinkered, singular partisan stance. I prefer truth in advertising. Suggesting the objective of the blog is- [i]“Putting politicians and commentators to the verbal sword”[/i], does not meet this criteria. [b]Jason[/b] – I agree- I am quite predictable – for being independently minded and intolerant of double standards. Unlike the overwhelming majority of contributors here. As for comedy, you must also find the contortionists here entertaining! Imagine defending plagiarism by drawing a parallel with Tom Stoppard and jazz music! The contortion of not accepting and apologising for the action, the acceptance of the congratulations for the article, and finally the continuing self justification! That’s really comedy gold!

lyn

12/06/2011Hi Macca No they want to steal our scones jam, and cream served on the balcony with a stirling Silver tea pot on a silver tray. So they barge in and can't keep their mouths shut. It's called gate crashing. Trying to pinch our scones jam and cream. I'm getting a bodyguard in. Big mouths out. If the bombastic balcony yelling doesn't get the reaction they are looking for, they resort to whispering gossip outside our windows. Stay in the snow whinging and sniveling, be miserable, serves them right. [quote]forgotten destitute soul, standing outside in the snow, peering through the window at at others who are warm and comfortable. Enjoying convivial company around the warm, crackling,yet left of centre fire.[/quote] Cheers

Ad astra reply

12/06/2011Folks I'll be away all afternoon carrying out the annual burn up of all the bits and pieces that fall of our trees each year. It's a very large pile, the air is still, and the weather is fine and sunny; it's ideal for a bonfire. I'll be back this evening. I'll leave it to others who blog here to respond to those who come here only to throw stones and berate [i]TPS[/i]. I suppose it gives them some perverse pleasure, but we have no obligation to waste our time responding. My preference is to ignore them unless they are offer something worthwhile as commentary.

TalkTurkey

12/06/2011Macca said "Fortunately all of you people here are too well mannered to ask. I'm not. So I will: ToM, JJ and others, Why are you so obsessed with the debates, comments, analysis and general conversation on this blog? I'm truly, truly interested. To me The Political Sword is like the around the table chat after a nice dinner party. A party with a diverse guest list. All of whom have something to say and contribute." Macca how dare you accuse me of being too well-mannered! ME! Why, just yesterday I said: "Now, a bit of Turkey talk: These drongoes that reckon we are all just wtte inbred Labor sycophants on the Sword, why do they think we are here? Just to argue? Why would we? Why can't we just be relatively like-minded, there is no need deliberately to create division if we think alike anyway! That's what we WANT! If I or any other sincere correspondents ever saw any good ideas coming from beyond what we already have taken on board, well we'd build that into our thinking eh!" So Macca don't you accuse me of being well mannered, I might just have to accuse you of slander! (K) We're dealing with objets de rision don't forget. jj and ToM and reb and Limpy, they are just for fun. I very much enjoy lampooning them. Same with Bum-Bolt and Abbortt and Anal Jones and the fading Pus Yukkyman, they are just all a snigger. Not to be taken seriously. And certainly, Not To Be Taken! Let them into your system THEN they're toxic. Float like a Butterfly, Drench Them in Pee! Fun With Trolls is now quite a fat file.

macca

12/06/2011Talk Turkey, I believe there is a world of difference between disagreement and denigration.

lyn

12/06/2011Hi Talk Turkey Gee I am so glad you came. I was saving scones for you, it's homemade strawberry jam today, especially made sweeter to make us all agree, yum tastes good. I don't miss much do I Talk Turkey, I am compiling a scoop for TPS publication, certain people are going to be named and shamed for their wicked gossip. [quote]Do you not disagree? Why? all right then, Why the hell not? Why should we agree to agree agreeably on everything all the time? Why can't we go on disagreeing disagreeably all the time? People will say we're in love! [/quote] Talk Turkey you just take the cake no I mean SCONE your humour is second to none. While you are here, I meant to thank you very much for your very humorous comment yesterday and very enjoyable song THE PIG WALKED AWAY, I love it. [quote]We will set our own standards and protocols around here, with Ad astra as the final filter, and it will stop short of the sort of stuff some have said elsewhere in the blogosphere, earning themselves only disrespect - but earning it, yes. Funny, I wonder what keyword it was that put me in mind of this song: [quote]"The Pig Got Up and Slowly Walked Away", 1933 song by Benjamin Hapgood Burt [/quote] "One evening in October, when I was one-third sober, An' taking home a ‘load' with manly pride; My poor feet began to stutter, so I lay down in the gutter, And a pig came up an' lay down by my side; Then we sang ‘It's all fair weather when good fellows get together,' Till a lady passing by was heard to say: ‘You can tell a man who "boozes" by the company he chooses' And the pig got up and slowly walked away." [/quote] Talk Turkey, Norman K was looking for you last night, did you see him: June 11. 2011 10:40 PM Jeez, I give up. (Rolls eyes, throws hands in the air in exasperation) Too subtle? Too oblique? [b]Where's TT when I need him? [/b] Thank goodness for you, Mr Weir. NormanK Enjoy your scone cheers (K)(K)(K)(K)(K)

lyn

12/06/2011Oh well [quote]My criticism is that this site has a pretence of being independent, of “Putting politicians and commentators to the verbal sword”. It doesn’t do this. It adopts a blinkered, singular partisan stance.[/quote] What a dreadful bone of contention, Oh dear poor little boy, the blog name doesn't match, is not suitable to the people. I guess this means for example: a blog called Gutter Trash has do do what it says .......Live in the gutter....... is that it. Mr Tom of Melbourne what's the mission statement of "Gutter Trash" mind I said Mission Statement, I know the definition of Gutter, and Trash means stinking rubbish doesn't it. [quote]a pretence of being independent[/quote], What does that mean Mr Melbourne.

NormanK

12/06/2011lyn I hope you don't mind my saying this, you know that I do so with the very best of intentions. I don't know what you have up your sleeve but be very careful that you don't get caught up in the heat of the moment and post something that you will later regret. It all seems like a lot of juvenile carryings-on at the moment (which it is) but it can turn very serious in the blink of an eye. Bear in mind that this is Ad astra's blog and anything you put up reflects on him. If you have even the smallest of reservations, run it past him first.

TalkTurkey

12/06/2011Macca Erm . . . Do you mean you think my petnames for our pollie puppets are over the top . . ? . . I don't . . . I really do disagree with you here. Derision is all in the game. Not slander or libel but name-calling as far as I'm concerned is On. I'd desist on this site only if Ad astra insisted, and then growlingly.(But without question.) They can call Her Ju-Liar if they want, sticks and stones you know . . . I rather pride myself on some of my petnames . . . The term bum-bolt, e.g., I met in a book called The Sot-Weed Factor, introduced to me personally by Don Dunstan . . . One fellow for losing a bet had to walk along behind his friend's flatulent mare, firing bum-bolts all the way . . . and considering the emissions from Bolt . . . ain't that a hoot? Or even lots of hoots? I do like it when the petname fits the character so! I've never said anything unduly obscene here imo. Emphasis on Unduly. But let me be clear Macca, I dig your contributions, straight up. I only mean this (K) to you! Lyn, re your post and Norman(K) above, Yeah I couldn't work out what he meant! Like he said, too subtle for me, what can it all mean? How can I help, what with? Not guilty Your Honour! Please Expalin? . . ! . . Omidog ! There's that "expalin" again, Palin's hybridised herself with Pauline Hanson do you see? She done that of her own accord I swear! Bred tough for Australo-Alaskan conditions! Anyway TT is here with me as I write, now what?

TalkTurkey

12/06/2011Well I'm not very deeply involved personally, but after I read some of what was written thereon, I gave myself a little gold (K) for this a few days ago, thought I'd flash it around again now! "Gutter Trash! The ultimate wysiwyg!" But there's a lot of good bloggers out there, nearly all in fact on the links Lyn gives us which is a pretty broad sweep at that, and I never want to tar everyone with the same brush. But there has never been anything to gain by the sort of things that were said on GT and one or two other sites. If those responsible don't apologise abjectly and sincerely to those they insulted, they will be as wraiths to me. I'm not holding my breath, but they will be the losers by failing to conciliate. In the meantime, Fie! "Gutter Trash! the ultimate wysiwyg!" :) Captcha Bingo: power, welfoc Heh Heh We got the power. The Coalons got welfocked !

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011NormanK, Seems to me that some people are suffering from Cabin Fever this cold Winter Queen's Birthday long weekend. Not lyn, her motives are pure. I believe she should take your advice though. I personally haven't bothered following what's been said elsewhere, except for CT itself. I thought it wise to do so.

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011So the Fat Cats like Clive and Gina DID pass the hat around to pay for Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison to go to Nauru on a private chartered jet for their publicity stunt: http://www.smh.com.au/national/party-donors-fly-abbott-to-nauru-in-style-20110611-1fy18.html

NormanK

12/06/2011FS That sponsorship will come as about as big a surprise as learning that the ALP has a 'dirt squad'. Such things have existed since one knuckle-dragger challenged another knuckle-dragger to be Head of the Cave. Surely there is something fundamentally wrong with an opposition leader purporting to be negotiating on the Commonwealth's behalf. I guess the 'out' is that Abbott is not actually negotiating anything but he won't put it in words like that, he'd rather leave the impression that he is on the verge of signing a deal. As for cabin fever, this is cyclical is it not? Two or three times a year this sort of nonsense blows up. How's your boring blog going?

TalkTurkey

12/06/2011FS He'll have a few favors to repay out of that! - or am I just being cynical?

Michael

12/06/2011The last footage I saw of the abandoned detention facilities on Nauru showed a place swiftly become ramshackle, weeds-overgrown, and anything but secure. It will be intriguing to see where the cameras are pointed on the commercial networks' 6PM news this evening. I suspect that they will be tight head and shoulders on Shouldabeen's visage, with Morrison nodding dutifully in 'half-face' framing at his shoulder. A palm tree glimpsed rising between them in the background to hint at idyllically tropical-resort conditions for all so 'fortunate' as to be accommodated there. All else blocked from sight. Interesting by-play commentary on Channel Nine's Today show this morning, from the three males at the host desks, about Shouldabeen's strange walking style when carrying his suitcases from the (who did pay for it, I wonder?) chartered jet. Resolution seemed to be that perhaps his bicycle seat isn't all that comfortable. The man is becoming more and more, as more and more people take a good look at him, and a real listen, the figure of ridicule he keeps on begging to be - for those with ears to hear and eyes to see.

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011A good news story about the PM and the First Bloke for a damn change: http://www.smh.com.au/national/i-absolutely-love-him-but-his-shed-is-my-nogo-zone-20110611-1fy20.html

Michael

12/06/2011PS Well, Channel Nine seems to be ready to show it as it is. And didn't Shouldabeen look all at sea (stop that boat!) wandering around the ruins of the Nauru detention centre? Thing is, of course, in his heart of hearts, he probably reckons that a busted down dump is just the place to put asylum seekers. After all, that northern suburb of Adelaide was figured to be too close to paradisical for refugees the last time he assessed the quality of real estate suitable for accommodating asylum seekers. Wouldn't want anyone thinking we were a nation with a heart, would he?

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011NormanK, 'I'm bored. I'm the Chairman of the Bored.' ;-)

Ad astra reply

12/06/2011Folks I’ve just come in from the annual bonfire of fallen branches, bark and dead shrubs, which after several hours of burning is now a heap of glowing embers. Fires are enchanting but there is something comforting about the glow of embers when much of the heat has gone. There has been a fair amount of heat on [i]TPS[/i] this last week and even today. It’s time now to not thrown any more fuel on the fire, time to let the heat die down and allow the embers to glow as a sign that soon there will be only spent fuel. We are not at war with other blog sites although some may deride [i]TPS[/i] and bloggers here. We are not out to provoke them, to invite retaliation. NormanK has written wisely on this matter. [b]So please allow the fire to die down, please do not add more fuel to it. [/b] Enough is enough – let’s get back to our usual civil discourse. Tomorrow I’ll be posting a piece [i]Fair and balanced discourse – it that what we want?[/i], where we will have a chance to tell each other what we want [i]TPS[/i] to be. Let’s leave further comments until then.

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011Michael, I've just watched Channel 9 News and the Lane Calcutt piece to camera for their political segment was arranged in such a way that Abbott's Nauru Boy's Own Adventure with Scott Morrison received short shrift and waas followed up with a line about the Malaysian deal being just a few days away from being signed and so it will probably remain unused. The biggest focus was on Greg Combet's announcement of compensation for Pensioners, Carers, and Self-Funded Retirees(bet they still won't be able to bring themselves to vote Labor though as a result), due to the Price on Carbon negotiations getting to the pointy end. This was then followed up witha positive story about the First Bloke and a hat tip to the 60 Minutes story on the First Couple tonight. As a result, I'm still in shock. :)

2353

12/06/2011FS, I suggested a while ago I felt the worm had turned. Your comments are relevant here. I have also detected a moderation in the tone of the (Brisbane) Sunday Mail since I returned from my leave. Wonder if its trying to accommodate the new reality (The Greens & Independents really hold the power) or there is a general awareness of the LNP's double standards - promise the earth and not have any of the required detail. An example is the Queensland Govt announced changes to an existing home energy efficiency program on Friday. It was duly reported on the (commercial FM) radio news on Saturday morning. The report suggested the LNP wasn't happy with the change and then went to a quote from the LNP leader in waiting (or whatever "Can't Do" Newman is called). The quote was Newman responding to a question by a reporter asking what his alternative policy would be, sounding flustered and muttering something about having an answer in a couple of weeks! Wasn't a good soundbite at all. They then went on to who was in and out for the State of Origin. Recaptcha bingo "great Perlys (of wisdom maybe ;) )

BSA Bob

12/06/2011F.S. at 6.27 I can restore your equilibrium when I tell you that the reliable ol' ABC skewed the whole thing in Abbott's favour tonight. A weird conjoining of Combet's carbon compensation announcements spliced to pictures of Abbott looking into ruined houses & assuring us Nauru's just about ready to go. Maybe I'm hair trigger cynical, but it seemed to me that the intent was to neuter Combet's positive comments by entwining them with Abbott's statements.

NormanK

12/06/2011BSA Bob SBS News did much the same thing but as a long-time watcher of it, I got the impression that they just wanted to get 'federal politics' over and done with in one item. Surprisingly, Karen Middleton had a couple of snipes (no surprise there) at Tony Abbott (surprise) describing his response to Combet's pensioner compensation announcement as predictable. The footage was less than flattering for the Nauru proposal and if Mr Abbott thinks he can have it operational in 'a matter of weeks' perhaps he could recommend to the Queensland public the building contractors he has in mind to use. If they can turn that mess around in weeks then they can 'fix' North Queensland in a month or two. I have a jaundiced eye, but Mr Abbott is looking more and more ridiculous. Cherry-picking from the Productivity Commission Report and effectively declaring black is white when the voice-over has quite clearly spelled out that black is in fact black makes him look silly. Describing those rundown, no doubt pest-ridden, shacks as 'good to go' asks for large dose of suspension of disbelief. I would hate to call it too soon but I'm beginning to suspect the Emperor's clothing is looking a bit transparent. Wouldn't it be nice if we could get back to discussing the merits of Opposition policies rather than the empty slogans and stunts of Mr Abbott?

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011[quote]Wouldn't it be nice if we could get back to discussing the merits of Opposition policies rather than the empty slogans and stunts of Mr Abbott?[/quote] NK, it would be nice if the Opposition had policies to discuss. Remember the Policy Implementation Group, led by Kevin Andrews, which was supposed to have a suite of good-to-go policies ready to tempt the electorate back to the Coalition by the 2010 election? I'm still waiting for them to appear. What has appeared has been quasi-policies instead. Pull off the thin veneer of Opposition policy and you find little of substance underneath. I mean, Greg Hunt must be embarassed to have to front the cameras and talk about planting forests in other countries as some sort of credible Climate Change policy from the Coalition. Not to mention Indirect Inaction which just doesn't add up. Malcolm Turnbull has obviously given up the ghost wrt 'demolishing' the NBN. Blind Freddie could see that it's a big plus and only getting bigger and better every day. Putting the frighteners up Telstra in order to delay the signing of the deal between the government and Telstra, which was another cockamamie Abbott stunt which he achieved by saying that he would unwind the NBN contracts and undo the deals, well, it just proves that the man can't be trusted to keep his word, as well as tell the truth. Which is being borne out, in general, with the behaviour of the Coalition State governments which have been elected recently. Anyway, it just goes to show where Abbott is coming from that he thought that he could drag the Newspoll voters attention back to the subject of Asylum Seekers this weekend and away from all the good work that the government are getting on with, by getting his vested interest supporters to pay for a jet to fly him and aid-de-camp, Scott Morrison, to Nauru, in order to focus on the bleedin' Nauruan Pacific Solution again. Which I found a delightful counterpoint to what the government were talking about, being Climate Change, because as Abbott mouthed his latest mantra: "It(the Carbon Tax) is just going to go up and up and up", I thought, "The only thing that is going to go 'up and up and up' is the sea level around Nauru as a result of Global Warming."

Feral Skeleton

12/06/20112353, Well observed. I, too have noticed that voice-overs recently have begun to express the contrarian point of view to what Mr Abbott has been mouthing. :)

Feral Skeleton

12/06/2011I'm with Richard Carleton: [quote]EVERYONE wants compensation these days. For anything. Slip on a wet floor at the supermarket and there's at least seven figures in it. Electricity bills going up? We all need compensation for the hit to our back pockets. Feelings hurt because someone cracked a dirty joke at work? Yep, there's a buck in that too if you find the right lawyer. The latest demand for a rain of other people's cash comes from the beef industry, after the suspension of live cattle exports to Indonesia. The cow cockies are howling that an industry worth $300 million a year has been stopped in its tracks and they'll all be ruined. Said Hanrahan. A thoughtful person might ask why the beef industry allowed the atrocities at Indonesian abattoirs to go on for so long. One suspects there was much shrugging of shoulders and turning of blind eyes while the money rolled in. Indeed, Meat Australia, or whatever it calls itself these days, has virtually admitted as much. Are we really to believe that the farmers themselves had no previous idea of the horrors revealed in that Four Corners program? Gimme a break.[/quote]

Ad astra reply

12/06/2011Folks I'm closing comments for the night. They will be open again first thing in the morning.

Feral Skeleton

13/06/2011jj, The government not doing anything about the poor Cattle Farmers et al attached in the supply chain? [quote]Clarke_Melissa Ludwig tells #AM he's prepared to use legislative powers to force Meat & Livestock Aust to give funds beef producers. [/quote]

lyn

13/06/2011 [b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]Abbott caught out again by his own word, Clarencegirl, North Coast Voices[/i] However, in his 2009 A REALIST'S APPROACH TO CLIMATE CHANGE speech given at the David Davies memorial dinner the attitude was somewhat different: http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com/ [i]NBN Co kicks off fibre extension trial, Renai LeMay, Technology Spectator[/i] iTNews reported this week, for example, that six remote Queensland towns, for example, had proposed building their own 1,350 fibre link to bring fibre to their region. http://technologyspectator.com.au/nbn-buzz/nbn-co-kicks-fibre-extension-trial [i]Death threats for Australian climate scientists , Aaron Ross, Grist[/i] The media and even elected officials have vigorously fanned the flames, portraying mainstream climate scientists as conniving frauds and potential criminals. A report [PDF] released in February 2010 http://www.grist.org/climate-change/2011-06-12-death-threats-for-australian-climate-scientists [i]Carbon's bill too, Chris Clarke, Landline[/i] Chris Clarke explains, there's a huge amount of research being done to quantify what's happening on farms and how emissions from agriculture might be cut. http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2010/s3241932.htm [i]Liz beths interviewed on 'The Third degree' Left Flank[/i] The program was the first in a series of discussions under the theme 'The Carbon Kerfuffle: Critical Discussions in Climate Change Policy'. The first episode explored the question of market mechanisms to http://left-flank.blogspot.com/ [i]The morning after, David Horton, The Watermelon Blog[/i] But looking back on what kind of country we were in 1996, and what we have become in 2011, the changes thrust upon us by Howard’s successful attempt to mold the http://davidhortonsblog.com/2011/06/12/the-morning-after-2/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3 [i]The Queen’s birthday: why do we continue with this archaic charade?, Barry Everingham, Independent Australia[/i] The Queen of England was born in the month of April and even in her own country the birthday celebration is held on a Saturday so the economy doesn’t suffer by giving millions a day off. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/republic/the-queens-birthday-why-do-we-continue-with-this-archaic-charade/ [i]Wallace Wurth Memorial Lecture 2011- Kerry O'Brien[/i] Politics and Journalism - Who's Winning the Race to the Bottom? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCHoVvb6kOM

Ad astra reply

13/06/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

jj

13/06/2011FS, You see, with those sort of comments it is no wonder that the cattle industry faces a hard time! You obviously have no understanding (neither does the person you have quoted) about what actually went on, or how the industry will be affected by this decision. 1. The producers (the vast majority of them) did not know what was going on in Indonesia. These people had put their trust in the MLA Representatives and the Government (including paying $5 a head for each beast exported)to make sure that what was going on in Indonesia was human and sustainable. The problem is, that the MLA (which is a government corporation-it has its own federal act) as well as the government turned a blind eye to the issue. Lyn White took footage of the terrible treatment to the Agricultural Minister and asked him to do something about it, but, he did nothing whatsoever. Now, after it being the Government and the MLA that have let down the producers over the treatment of their animals, they decide to punish them a second time by shutting down a whole industry leaving it in limbo. SO WHY SHOULDNT THE INDUSTRY SEEK COMPENSATION? 2. Not only does this shut down of the industry for twelve months (without the money to operate for the six months after the ban has lifted, the farms will be non operational) effect their cash flows, cattle, farm hands, truckies, warfies, local small businessmen, feed suppliers, feed lot owners etc, but it also effects their asset values. IF YOU CANT PRODUCE ANYTHING OF VALUE ON THE LAND YOU OWN IT IS WORTH NOTHING... and that is the situation the landholders now face. Many of the landholders will be getting their annual valuation done on their properties for the bank, for the banks assurance, and guess what they will find? That their mortgage is now worth more than their property! The producer will have to either shut down, try and stay open but pay ridiculous interest rates, or sell the place and still be left in debt. This is why they need compensation!

Feral Skeleton

13/06/2011Can someone explain to me how this is 'News'? On Channel 9 this morning I heard this: "Economists warn that if the dollar goes down petrol prices are going to go up." Followed about 30 seconds later by the real news that today the Aus$ has risen in value against the greenback. Hmm. Talk about moving seamlessly from one scare campaign to another. As the Reserve Bank has indictated it is not likely to raise interest rates anytime soon, and so that hot button of rising mortgage costs can't be wheeled out for a while, someone in the Channel 9 borg has come up with a new scare, viz, a falling dollar will allow that other hot button to be pressed, petrol prices. Which makes this story today very apt: http://www.rossgittins.com/2011/06/far-too-much-economic-news-for-our-own.html

Feral Skeleton

13/06/2011jj, Melissa Clarke, fyi, is ABC24's Canberra political correspondent. Also, what you have written is a load of Henny Penny rubbish and lies about the government's actions in this instance(why am I not surprised?). Let me explain: The MLA, which, if you run your eye over their government-appointed board probably has more connections with the National and Liberal Parties than the Labor Party, has a Contingency Fund to pay for such eventualities as this. The MLA don't want to break into it, probably because it has been a nice little earner for them, like their $5/head of cattle poll tax. I am sure the Agriculture Minister has the facts to hand about how much is in there and has calculated how much, approximately, will be needed to keep food on the table of all concerned until this ghastly problem, which was ignored for too many years, going back to the time of Howard, is resolved once and for all. So that all the good rural burghers can go on their merry way making money and they won't have to sell the farm and it won't be worth nothing. It will be the bump in the road on the way to best practice that it should be. But, jj, you can bleat like a good little National Party sheep all you want and try and scare people with your fly-blown hyperbole and short term disaster scenarios. A decision has been made by the Agriculture Minister(and, boy, must it gall your mates in the National Party not to have one of their own as Agriculture Minister handing out the tax dollars to the Agrarian Socialists on the land), and delivery will occur. In a rational and thoughtful manner that will not waste public monies when a contingency fund already exists.

Jason

13/06/2011jj, As I understand it, the "MLA" is from their own web site http://www.mla.com.au/About-the-red-meat-industry/About-MLA "Who we are Meat & livestock Australia (MLA) is a producer-owned company, working in partnership with industry and government to achieve a profitable and sustainable red meat and livestock (cattle, sheep and goats) industry in Australia" If the above is true it's hardly a government corporation as you assert!

Feral Skeleton

13/06/2011Clarence Girl is amazing. She has found the one quote which says it all about Tony Abbott's approach to the science of Climate Change: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lsonTDYaCzc/TfD4wQXDgbI/AAAAAAAAEIU/MIApBe0OqsM/s1600/ScreenHunter_05%2BJun.%2B10%2B02.45.gif In it he badges himself an 'Intelligent Sceptic', and says that a Carbon Tax is better than a property right, as in an ETS I would assume, because [quote]'it would be much easier than a property right to reduce or to abolish should the justification for it change.'[/quote] That man is the ultimate Machiavellian political sleazeball, never telling the truth about his intentions.

Feral Skeleton

13/06/2011Jason, jj is an angry ant who just can't admit it when his own homeboys have fouled their nest, so he has had to go through an intellectual contortion act to try and find the form of words to blame the government for something which has been occurring way back to Howard's time in office. 10 years was the figure I heard. But no, he has to lie about the fact that Joe Ludwig has been trying to do something about this issue since last year, pretty soon after he became Agriculture Minister and became acquainted with the facts, as far as I can see it. jj would like us to forget that we had an election in August 2010, it ruins his 'they have known about it for a long time and done nothing about it' narrative. Also the fact that Joe Ludwig twice approached the industry for a grown-up response to the problem, and got mealy-mouthed platitudes made in an attempt to string him along instead. But, just you wait, I can hear the outraged clattering of keyboard keys from jj's computer coming up with a new angle for his anti-government outrage, which will attempt to play on our heartstrings about the 'poor' multi-thousand acre, vertically-integrated businessmen in the cattle industry, even as I type this. :P

Jason

13/06/2011FS, I know, whenever something goes wrong for the "man on the land" it's either a Labor governments fault or the Unions or both! but never them.

Rx

13/06/2011Abbott is another Lying Rodent. I suppose imitation was inevitable, given his idol-worship of his namesake.

jj

13/06/2011Jason, You have about as many brains as Julia Gillard's backside... so why dont you just disappear. FS, 1. MLA is a government corporation- its role is to report back to the government of the day on industry operations. 2. Ludwig knew about this whole issue in December, did not raise any real concerns with the producers themselves and nothing was done. 3. Ludwig gets told that the images he saw are to be aired on National TV, he scrambles around to find a response. His first response is to suspend trade to 12 slaughter houses and initiate an inquiry. 4. Before the inquiry or the suspension really begins, he decides to ban the whole trade for six months without any word on compensation, how far the facilities have to improve for them to reopen, or who is culpable. 5. Gillard and Ludwig do nothing to calm the industry's fears other than saying, "we will consult with industry"- even though they had not even consulted their fellow state agricultural ministers before they announced suspension mark 2. 6. Producers are stuck either half way through a muster, or with cattle on trucks, in holding pens and feedlots. To move the cattle to southern markets would cost the producers up to $200 per head, which would make the whole operation unviable. To move them back to their stations would mean extra transport costs as well as causing their cattle to be to heavy to make it to Indonesia once the trade resumes. They are stuck FS! As i have said before, you and Jason couldnt give a stuff about the welfare of the producers involved. You just see the farmers (most of whom are laden in debt because of the large costs of running a farm) as National Party scum who deserve what gets giver to them. I am sure that if this was the coal industry or car industry that the Government was proposing to shut down due to health and safety risks you would have a different attitude, because that is how shallow you are! Unless they vote Labor, you couldnt care either way! We all want the animals to be slaughtered in a more humane manner, but we dont want to send people bust, nor cause reputable long term damage to our live export trade. You may Jason and FS, but as i have said many times before, you must have rocks in your heads!

Jason

13/06/2011jj, I mearly asked if the MLA website was true that it is Producer owned company. How MLA is funded MLA is primarily funded by transaction levies paid on livestock sales by producers. The Australian Government also contributes a dollar for each dollar MLA spends in R&D. This is supplemented by cooperative contributions from individual processors, wholesalers, foodservice operators and retailers. Processors and live animal exporters also pay levies under contract to MLA. http://www.mla.com.au/About-the-red-meat-industry/About-MLA/Company-overview/How-MLA-is-funded

TalkTurkey

13/06/2011jj said "Jason, You have about as many brains as Julia Gillard's backside... so why dont you just disappear." That's the FUNNIEST thing s/he/it's ever said! (Don't say much for t'others hey!) Fun :) With :) Trolls

Feral Skeleton

13/06/2011jj, Use the ears in your head and go and listen to the interview conducted in the last half hour between David Farley, CEO of AACo, and Whitney Fitzsimmons on Business Today. It was a wide-ranging and technically and business-specific interview which canvassed all the issues you are bleating about on behalf of your mates the Agrarian Socialists. I'd like to begin with this quote from David Farley: "Joe Ludwig is a good man. He has well-structured thought processes, and I am confident he will come up with an appropriate solution to this problem." (Or wtte, in case someone gets pedantic with me, as I'm quoting from my memory). He also made the point that Compensation was a 'Second Order' issue and the first order of the day was that decisions need to be made today about what to do with the cattle in the holding pens, the Road Trains and the Ships that are laying idle. According to David Farley, however, the First Order issue is that a Closed Loop system for monitoring the cattle from paddock to plate needs to be worked out, via ear tags, and put in place so that the industry can confidently go forward knowing that animal welfare was assured all along the line. Which would mean that abbatoirs in Indonesia would need stun gun technology and be accredited that they use it and use it properly, before any livestock would be sent on to them for slaughter. He said that Elders have a Vertically Integrated system in place from Australia through to Indonesia and it was adequate for the task. He also stated that AACo. are now going to fast-track their plans for the construction of an abbatoir in Northern Australia, probably Darwin, in order to be able to guarantee best practice slaughter. David Farley also said that he had advised the Stock Exchange of a $10 million write down for the company for the next financial year as a result of this problem exposed by 4 Corners, but he was pretty confident that would be all, and anyway, AACo has other revenue streams and so would not become insolvent as a result of this present problem. Now, jj, they are the facts from the horse's mouth, to use an agricultural metaphor. If you wish to disagree then please explain. I'd be interested to read how you disagree with the words of the man at the center of this issue, other than Joe Ludwig, who he has complete faith in. Oh, and as for the little guy who you seem to be crying your crocodile tears for, David Farley said that there are teams of lawyers, both in government and on the industry side, who are presently working on ways to compensate everyone for their losses. And a decision has been made today to send the cattle who are in the holding yards south for slaughter to go into the domestic market. Which will reduce the Cost of Living for you and me as we get to purchase cheaper Beef. Now, the National Party don't think that's a bad thing, do they?

Feral Skeleton

13/06/2011Rx, Abbott cannot lie straight in bed but he can lie with a straight face. :D

Feral Skeleton

13/06/2011Things that make you go 'Hmm' :D http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/bill-tilleys-threat-to-quit-liberal-party-shows-absolute-crisis-opposition-says/story-e6frf7jx-1226073890354

Jason

13/06/2011jj, If MLA is a government corporation as you have just lectured me in your long rant! why would the minister need to do this? "Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig says he is prepared to force Meat and Livestock Australia (MLA) to release its $5 million contingency fund to help beef producers caught up in the suspension of live cattle exports to Indonesia. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/13/3242318.htm?section=justin

janice

13/06/2011[quote]To move the cattle to southern markets would cost the producers up to $200 per head, which would make the whole operation unviable. To move them back to their stations would mean extra transport costs as well as causing their cattle to be to heavy to make it to Indonesia once the trade resumes. They are stuck FS! [/quote] They're stuck alright - hoist on their own petard. If you are really trying to tell me (as one who comes from a pastoralist family) that these producers were not aware that these animals were being brutalised and tortured prior to slaughter in Indonesia, you are taking me for a fool. $$$ closed their eyes to reality. The breed of pastoralists from which I came loved their animals and would not have countenanced any mis-treatment of them. But then, pastoralists were cattlemen/landholders with a love of country, its flora and fauna, and were not obsessed with the mighty dollar, flying machines and boardrooms. :P:

D Mick Weir

13/06/2011jj @ 08:47 AM A lot of what you have written is a reasonable assessment of how some see the situation. However, it is difficult for ALL of us to know who is 'right' or 'wrong' about this without knowing all of the facts (which most of us will never know). [i]'These people had put their trust in the MLA Representatives and the Government ...'[/i] A question arises; why would these people put their trust in the government? After all they have been told by many not to trust this government. A trite response by me but an interesting question all the same. [i]'... the MLA (which is a government corporation-it has its own federal act)'[/i]. I will accept at face value that the MLA has its own act, however, I refer you to page 5 of [b]The Weekend AFR[/b] and the first line in the article by John Kerin, [i]'Meat and Livestock Australia, [b]set up by the industry[/b] to promote sales ...[/i] Further along in that article [i]'MLA is reported to have known of animal mistreatment in Indonesia for 10 years and had devised a public relations strategy with exporting arm LiveCorp to counter adverse coverage as early as 2005.'[/i] It seems the producers 'union' has let down its' members badly. [i]'Inverell-based cattle producer ... alleged the response by the group to the problem was "deplorable" and "out of touch" with its grassroots members.'[/i] It is a complex problem and it will not be solved by screaming and finger pointing, we can only hope that the industry reps do the job the are supposed to do and work with the governments of Australia and Indonesia to solve this problem quickly for the sake of all those adversly affected.

NormanK

13/06/2011jj See how easily you drift back into old bad habits. Did you follow Jason's link to the MLA website? I thought not because if you had you would see that there is no Australian Government logo anywhere to be seen. Yes, they receive government dollars but they are 'a producer-owned company'. Should you be interested, here is the link again: http://www.mla.com.au/About-the-red-meat-industry/About-MLA [quote]1. MLA is a government corporation- its role is to report back to the government of the day on industry operations. [/quote] This statement is therefore untrue. [quote]2. Ludwig knew about this whole issue in December, did not raise any real concerns with the producers themselves and nothing was done.[/quote] You will have seen, just as I have, that Ludwig contacted the MLA and other bodies in January to instruct them to provide a workable plan to clean-up the live export industry. They responded with lip-service so he sent them off to do their homework again and once again they failed to provide a workable comprehensive plan. Could Ludwig have done more? Perhaps, but to say he did nothing is untrue. Conveniently, you want to lay all of the blame at the government's feet. Funny isn't it that industry bodies see the MLA and LiveCorp as being culpable. [b]Beef producers angry over animal welfare levies[/b] [quote]PETER CAVE: A group representing about a thousand cattle producers has slammed the organisations overseeing livestock exports for wasting millions of dollars of their money.
The Australian Beef Association says that Meat and Livestock Australia as well as livestock exporter LiveCorp have wasted the levy collected on the sale and slaughter of every head of cattle, a portion of which is tagged for animal welfare programs. MARY GEARIN: Cattle producers and exporters hand over more than $3 million in levies to Meat and Livestock Australia and LiveCorp.
The money is collected specifically for training and education programmes designed to prevent the very mistreatment that's been revealed this week in Indonesian abattoirs. BRAD BELLINGER[/quote] (Australian Beef Association's chairman) [quote]: We think that there hasn't been proper use of that money. 
We're very angry about it.[/quote] http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2011/s3232343.htm [b]Blind eye turned to cattle cruelty[/b] by PATRICK FRANCIS [quote]The directors of Meat and Livestock Australia and LiveCorp have failed in their duty of care for the Australian livestock industry and specifically beef cattle welfare in Indonesia. The unconscionable component of the cattle welfare abuse in Indonesian abattoirs is the direct involvement by staff of both organisations in the installation of restraining boxes that facilitated the cruelty.[/quote] http://stage.fw.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/opinion/comment/blind-eye-turned-to-cattle-cruelty/2181484.aspx It's pretty clear where most of the industry is laying the blame. Then when you start to run out of puff you resort to personal abuse. [quote]As i have said before, you and Jason couldnt give a stuff about the welfare of the producers involved.[/quote] This is based on personal acquaintance with the individuals concerned is it? Or perhaps you are referring to an instance where this attitude has been clearly stated in the past. Please draw our attention to that instance. [quote]You just see the farmers as National Party scum..... [/quote] Putting words in peoples' mouths again. Not very polite. [quote]I am sure that if this was the coal industry or car industry that the Government was proposing to shut down due to health and safety risks you would have a different attitude..... [/quote] More word-putting based on zero evidence. I won't speak for Jason or FS but personally if there are health and safety or humane treatment question marks over any industry, I would want it dealt with swiftly, regardless of who they might vote for. What you are doing is called 'projection' jj. If you want to cherry-pick industries which get your support and others which don't, that's up to you. Just don't project your narrow-minded partisan attitudes on to us. It really was much better when you didn't resort to personal attacks, the putting of words in people's mouths and THE USE OF CAPITALS which is the equivalent of shouting. The only thing that I would say in defence of some of the smaller stakeholders is that they may not know exactly which abattoir their beasts are being sent to and naively take the word of their representative bodies as to their treatment. Another benefit which will accrue from this temporary ban is that Indonesia will pull its finger out and do something about it from their end. Best-practice abattoirs will no doubt be putting considerable pressure on the recalcitrant ones to get their act together so that they can all get back to the business of making money.

Ad astra reply

13/06/2011Folks I have just now posted: [i]Fair and Balanced discourse - is that what we want[/i]: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2011/06/13/Fair-and-balanced-discourse-is-that-what-we-want.aspx I am interested to have your considered opinion on this subject after the recent debate about how [i]TPS[/i] ought to operate. I will leave the last post open for a while to enable you to complete any matter being addressed currently, but would prefer that you direct comments to the new piece, as what you have to say will be important when charting the future direction of [i]TPS[/i]

NormanK

13/06/2011Good morning lyn Thanks for today's lovely links. How are your [i]Notepad[/i] skills progressing. If you have any questions these links might prove useful or you could seek help from the tech-heads here at [i]TPS[/i].:) http://www.smartlabsoftware.com/howto/notepad-tutorial.htm http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com/software.asp

Jason

13/06/2011Normank, "I won't speak for Jason or FS but personally if there are health and safety or humane treatment question marks over any industry, I would want it dealt with swiftly, regardless of who they might vote for." Couldn't agree more! Also I would have thought that even after the same problems occured even during Howards time that MLA or it's members would have demanded that it get it's act together.

TalkTurkey

13/06/2011Astrafix, Great Sage! We go!
How many oranges do I have if I have 3 oranges and take ONE away?