If you are not scared about the effects of global warming, you ought to be

As if there isn’t enough to be scared about on the physical plane, and we saw even more this week from New Anthropocene covering the ‘State of the Ocean’ report that shows that the seas are dying and time frames for actions are ‘shrinking’, now we have scary economic news and the threat of social disruption as global warming progresses.

This piece draws heavily on a revealing interview by Ali Moore of Paul Gilding and Thomas Friedman on Lateline on 17 June this year. It was one of the most frightening expositions of the predicted effects of global warming that I have heard. And it wasn’t about melting glaciers or rising seas levels; it was about the economic and social changes that are predicted to follow in its wake.  You may wish to read the transcript or view the interview.

I hereby gratefully acknowledge the ABC Lateline website as the source of most of the material in this piece. Direct quotes are indicated in italics in inverted commas. The bolding is mine and my comments are placed in bold to distinguish them from the rest. Some of the text has been abbreviated as indicated by the use of the ellipsis. Ali was well prepared and having done her homework, the interview was exemplary.

Paul Gilding is an Australian and a former Executive Director of Greenpeace International. He has had a 20-year involvement with social change organizations, which he assists with business forecasting. In 1992, the World Economic Forum appointed him a Global Leader for Tomorrow at its annual meeting; in1994 he was listed by Time International in its ‘Time's Global 100 Young Leaders for the New Millennium’; and in 1993 the Prime Minister presented him with an Australia Day Award for Outstanding Achievement for services to the environment. He has recently authored The Great Disruption.

Thomas Friedman is a highly regarded American and an internationally renowned author and reporter, a columnist for the New York Times, and recipient of three Pulitzer Prizes. He is the author of five bestselling books, among them From Beirut to Jerusalem and The World Is Flat. He was a visiting lecturer at Harvard University in 2000 and 2005. He has been awarded honorary degrees by more than a dozen American and international universities. He has collaborated with Paul Gilding and admires his writing.

The credentials of those two men are impeccable. We ought to pay attention to what they say.

Ali began by asking: “If climate change is like a car trip where the scientists have given us the ultimate destination, the question is are we there yet, Paul Gilding, are we? Are we at the tipping point?”

Gilding answered: “I think we are and I think there's only time to take kind of diversionary action. It's too late not to have an accident, we're going to have the crash, the only question is how severe is the crash and what will our response be in the process of slowing down. So is it fatal or not is our question to answer still, but certainly it's too late to avoid the accident.”

Now to me that sounds pretty alarming. You hear Tony Abbott and Nick Minchin and Eric Abetz all playing down if not denying the reality of global warming and here we have a world expert saying we’ve gone beyond the ‘tipping point’ and an ‘accident’ is unavoidable.

Then Ali asks him: “This is what you call the great disruption?” to which he replies: “That's right and I think it's going to be a great disruption. I don't think it's the end of civilization or of humanity but it's certainly the end of our economy as we know it and it's the end of this idea of endless consumerism, economic growth just going on and on endlessly to the point of absurdity in terms of our lifestyles but also to the point of absurdity in terms of our expectations that the planet can support that economy any further.”

“And I think we're now seeing the numbers stack up in terms of what the consequences of that are in terms of resource rising, oil pricing, arable land and so on. And so this will translate now into an economic impact rather than just an environmental impact.

So he’s saying our consumerism, that is the world’s consumerism, can’t be sustained by the world’s economy. That’s ought to bring us up with a jolt.

Ali then asks Thomas Friedman if he agrees with Gilding and “Is economic growth as we know it dead?”

His response is: “Well I think he's absolutely right. We obviously, we've been locked on a growth path of building more and more stores to sell more and more stuff to be made in more and more Chinese factories powered by more and more coal so China could buy more and more T-bills to be re-circulated back to America to build more and more stores to sell more and more stuff powered by more and more coal so China could earn more and dollars to be re-circulated back... We've been in that loop and basically that loop is what we're seeing slowly grind to a halt here. We just can't keep it going that way.

“My friend Rob Watson, who's the founder of Green Buildings likes to say...Mother Nature, she's just chemistry, biology and physics. That's all she is. You can't talk her up you can't talk her down, you can't sweet-talk her, you can't say, Mother Nature, we've having a bad recession. Could you take a couple of years off? She's going to do whatever chemistry, biology and physics dictate…So do not mess with Mother Nature and that's exactly what we're doing.”

Friedman insists the economic churn is there for all to see, and Mother Nature will do as she pleases whatever humans purpose to do.

Ali shows she is well prepared by asking: “You talk about this loop grinding to a halt and I remember vividly in 2008, and this was when you wrote that there had been this clash of Mother Earth and Father Greed, they hit the wall at once. But back in 2008 we talked a lot about this, about how we all bought too much stuff, we were way too materialistic, we depended too much on accumulating and everyone talked about how that would come to an end. But what happened? Markets recovered, people felt more confident, they started buying more stuff again. So was it really a moment when Mother Earth and Father Greed clashed or was it really just one of the many moments that we have in the cycle that is the great economy?”

Thomas Friedman responded: “…The way I put it at the time was that it was our warning heart attack. It was Mother Nature and Father Greed basically saying you are growing in an unsustainable way. You're growing based on situational values. Do whatever the situation allows rather than on sustainable values….we can continue to grow in a way, but do it on the basis of sustainable values, values that sustain us. So I think that's really how I look at what we call the great recession.”

Remember what John Quiggin said in his book Zombie Economics: that as the recession receded economists were only too happy to revert to the same flawed economic models that got them into trouble in the first place – they had learned nothing and the zombie models they cherished threatened to come to life and get them into trouble again. Friedman urges growth on sustainable values rather than the situational values zombie models embraced.

Ali then asks: “Paul Gilding, where do you see these signs that we're grinding to a halt? Talk us through what you're seeing?”

He responds comprehensively: “Well I think one of the most dramatic ones we're seeing lately and financial commentators are starting to discuss this now is that commodity prices, which have been going through a pretty steady fall since…the turn of the last century, so for 110 years or so we've seen a consistent decline averaging about 1.5 per cent per year, 70 per cent over that time frame. And they've only really gone up during period of extreme demands like WWI, WWII...otherwise they've gone down. Those commodity prices have now gone up again during a recession and so of course what that means is that the prices are going up because demand is out stripping supply and this is not just one or two items, this is like the entire range of commodities across food, minerals and so on. So of course that's in a recession.

“What that means…if we could get the global economy really growing again, then…those prices would spike and would stop growth again and I think that's probably the biggest example we've got. And those resources, those commodities are actually coming from Mother Nature and what we're now seeing…is that now we're running right now at about 150 per cent of the sustainable capacity of the planet and we're planning to grow the economy to three or four times this size by 2050. It's just not going to happen. Not because we don't want it to, not because it wouldn't be nice or because polar bears will die, but because of physics and chemistry and biology…it's just not physically possible for that to occur.

So here’s the warning – the incessant growth that many seek will not be possible or sustainable. How are we to moderate our needs and wants to match what Mother Earth is capable of delivering?

Ali continues: “But let's look at Australia right now…and certainly we have a two-track economy but what many people see is that commodity prices are high and indeed they're driving growth, they're driving employment so those people who are employed can buy more. That gives more people jobs. It seems to be a positive cycle for Australia. It's hard to come to this point where it's all necessarily unsustainable.”

Gilding responds: “Well it's positive for Australia in the short-term because of course commodity prices going up is good for Australia but the bottom-line is that is only going to get worse globally because of course the more commodity prices go up, the inputs to our very consumerist, very material economy are no longer affordable. And so as we've always seen when oil price goes to new highs we get a recession as a result and with peak oil now coming on board as well I think we are going to see absolute fundamental limits to economic growth.

“Now of course I don't mean 1 or 2 per cent this year, next year, but the basic model which assumes that we're going to grow the economy and keep on doing so until everyone in China and India and everywhere lives like we do is just not possible. You can't have an economy that big because there isn't enough room on the planet for it… we're looking at the total global growth model here and it just no longer adds up".

So there it is again: “You can't have an economy that big because there isn't enough room on the planet for it.” That is a harsh if not immovable constraint.

Ali asks Thomas Friedman: “To what extent though … is Paul's point relying on no change? Because you wrote back in 2009 that people were already using the economic slowdown to retool and reorient their economies and… Germany and Britain and China and the US were all putting in place stimulus packages that revolved around investments in clean power… do you believe the world can come back from the brink, that people can change?”

Freidman was optimistic: “I certainly do, provided that we face up to the problem. You know Ali, my last book on this was called 'Hot, Flat and Crowded' and whenever I talk to people about that I always…hold up the book and say, well maybe you don't believe in hot, maybe you don't believe in climate change and global warming, no problem. That's between you and your beach house. But please, please believe in flat and crowded. That is the world is getting more and more flat, that more and more people can see how we live, aspire to how we live and live like we live. In my country's case, in American-sized homes, driving American-sized cars, eating American-sized Big Macs, and there's going to be more and more people. We know that. So when flat meets crowded...and more and more people who can and aspire to live like us, that only goes one way towards the kind of explosive demand on resources that Paul just discussed.”

Again Friedman sees the demand on resources as ‘exploding’ and unsustainable as people in other countries, like China and India, aspire to our way of life with all its extravagant consumerism. This is occurring no matter what is happening to the climate.

Ali says: “… look at China for example and its most recent five-year plan and the commitment there to renewable energy, the massive solar farms that we see in Portugal. Do you dismiss all that sort of thing as being just not enough?”

Gilding responds: I dismiss it not as being not enough but not being fast enough and coming too late. So it is not that it's not possible to do this differently, the trouble is we have left it so late we can't do it now fast enough to prevent a major economic crisis. So absolutely...very excited about solar power, about the incredible transformation we're going to go through and I think we're going to do that with incredible speed once we start. And I refer to this as the kind of one-degree war that I think we are going to mobilize as we do in war to stop climate change and to turn this around. However, as we have…an economy built upon the old model it's simply going to take several decades to turn that around.

“So even with the war-like mobilization and the complete transformation of the transport energy, agriculture and so on, it is going to take several decades to get there. And in the end we have to face up to the fact that the very basic idea behind our model, which is that we can have infinite growth on a finite planet, is simply not possible. So we can argue the timing and the transition points and so on but the bottom line is we can't get there and keep on doubling the economy every 10, 15 years into the future. At some point it must stop.

“And so we will see dramatic change, don't get me wrong. I'm very excited about how fast that change is going to occur and how we are going to have to think differently about consumerism and the quality of our life being defined in difference ways. And we can do that but we have to face the fact that we're not going to change until the crisis hits and once the crisis hits there's a lag in the system which means it will take some time to transform. And during that period and I think for many decades thereafter we're not going to see economic growth of any significant scale and that's going to put a grenade into the glass house in terms of our politics, in terms of our society, in terms of our assumptions about how we live our lives and what works and what doesn't work in terms of our economic system.”

Ali then said: “Well when it comes to things that are unsustainable Thomas Friedman, I mean look at America and look at the public debt - $14.3 trillion, 100 per cent of GDP. And I spoke recently to someone in the US who said that yes, people are concerned about it but then very quickly they move onto wondering what's for dinner. It's almost like out of sight out of mind. How sustainable is that sort of position in the US today and how active are your politicians at being able to not just talk about it but do something?”

Freidman replied: Well we're actually going backwards Ali. You know in the last two years of Obama's presidency, climate change actually became a four-letter word.

"We have a two party system here. One where Democrats have the right convictions about climate change but have no courage of their convictions and the Republican Party has gone completely overboard on this issue. They've actually gone to war against physics. They're actually gone to war against biology and math as well. So that's our choice right now - people who have the right ideas but are cowardly and people who have completely the wrong ideas. I mean we have a leading Republican presidential candidate…whose position is that we're going to have 5 per cent growth for the next 10 years once we elect him as president. I mean they're in cloud cuckoo land. We haven't become serious about this at all and Obama has not used his bully pulpit.

“Climate change became a four letter word under Barack Obama because it is such a hot political topic here that everyone tells him you've got to stay away from it and he's presided over I think a real erosion in American understanding of this issue.”

ALI MOORE: “So Thomas Friedman, when do you think we will know that we've got to this crisis point that Paul Gilding talks about that will lead to this extraordinary action that Paul also talks about…when do you think we'll know that we're there?

THOMAS FRIEDMAN: "Well Ali, basically what's going on right now is we're all sitting around waiting for the perfect storm and the perfect storm is a storm that is big enough to finally end this debate but not so big to end the world…That's basically what we're sitting around waiting for. And so politicians aren't actually going to take the action we need. They're going to wait for the market and Mother Nature to act, okay and force us to do this.' 

Ali asks: "Paul Gilding, is that right?" 

He replies: “Yeah, totally right. And it won't be just environmental, it'll be economic as well and therefore it's social.

"So as oil prices go up therefore food prices go up; because food prices goes up instability goes up… And so you have this cycle that goes on and that's what's going to happen. Because it's a complex system. It's not just a major climate event. It's food prices going up, food shortages and famine creating political instability, which is bad for markets, makes markets nervous.

“…for example if we want to achieve a two degree temperature rise and no more than that and we're going to have an 80 per cent chance of achieving that, it means that between half and three quarters of all proven fossil fuel reserves, all coal, all oil and all gas can never be burnt. Now those companies are valued according to their assets and those assets can't be sold. So we're going to have a massive economic shock and I think the economic shock is what is going to drive us to change rather than the environmental impact. We've had the most extraordinary extreme weather in the past decade. I mean any right-minded person looks at that and says, what are you thinking? Of course there's climate change already happening.

Ali then says: “But Paul Gilding, my question to you is you talk about this war-like response, that that's the sort of emergency action that you see the world taking. Why so confident that the world will take that as a collective and it won't become a dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest?”

He replies: “Because there's no evidence in history of that. And for my book, The Great Disruption I looked at that in some detail.”

He goes on to give details from WWII where denial operated – people wanted to believe the threat of war was not too bad and so action was delayed.

He goes on: “Now what ended was not some new evidence, the evidence was always clear as it is now, what ended was denial. And what we do see in corporate crises, personal health crises, war and so on, is denial goes on for a long time and it gets worse as the evidence gets stronger, which is what we're seeing now.

The reason sceptical science is going on so strongly now is because the evidence is so strong you have to actually deny physics, to actually oppose what the climate scientists are saying. So that's why it gets so extreme and then it stops. And that's what history says that we do consistently - avoid, avoid and then oh my God! Then we act. And that's how it's going to be on this one as well.”

That is what has occurred in science over the centuries. As Thomas Kuhn tells us, old theories, old paradigms will continue to be embraced and alternatives rejected until the evidence overwhelms the denialists and a paradigm shift to a new way of thinking occurs.

Ali asks Freidman is that right?

He responds: “… our problems are getting deeper. We've had a terrible decade of excess…what’s totally missing right now…is American leadership…when we basically dither and delay and deny…well that gives an excuse for everybody in the world to do that. I think when we take the lead…by doing something hard ourselves, so it's not after you but follow me, I think you do get a different global response.”

“And you do have this loop going on now where higher food prices lead to greater instability, greater instability leads to higher oil prices, higher oil prices which are a huge component of food prices, lead to higher food prices. So we're in that loop and we've got to develop a counter loop now to that loop". 

Ali concludes on a hopeful note: “I guess the message from you both is that we can get over this, the world is not doomed. At least you are both confident that we have the ability to take the action should we choose to.”

So there it is. The issue of global warming is not just an environmental one. We have read much about the ecological effects of rising global temperatures – melting glaciers, release of methane from melting permafrost, rising sea levels, inundation, displacement of millions of people, loss of arable land, food and water shortages possibly leading to wars, increasing extreme weather events, loss of ecological assets and possibly in the extreme an uninhabitable planet, all of which demand action if our societies are to survive and prosper.

This piece addresses less-discussed effects of global warming – the economic and social effects, and the rampant consumerism that aggravates the environmental effects. They have been described in the interview with Paul Gilding and Thomas Friedman. They are alarming and deserve as much attention as the concomitant environmental effects. But they, like the other effects, are likely to be no more amenable to correction than the ones we talk about every day.  It is very alarming - action is urgent.

What do you think?

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Russell Glendale Newcastle

22/06/2011Hi everybody, Thankyou Ad, I remember watching this interview and thoughly agreed with the views bought forward. On a second analysis with your additional comment I am starting to realise what a wonderfull piece of journalism that had taken place. There are several very important messages here. One of the most disconcerting points for me was the similar tactics and direction of the USA Republicans and the Australian Libs. From this point of view the libs would say they are winning. However, I remain hopeful. The global green polital movement is starting to reach critical mass. This could provide some foundation for the paradigm that will be required into the future.

Ad astra reply

22/06/2011Russell Glendale Newcastle You are right. The Republicans and the Liberals use the same tactics. Foster doubt about the science, misrepresent the threat, and dismiss the need for action on any pretence. If anyone has any doubt about the veracity of this assessment, go listen to what Nick Minchin said today in his valedictory speech in the Senate, and remember that he was Tony Abbott’s mentor and promoter. Like you, I hope there are some out there who can shake Australia out of the climate change lethargy that Tony Abbott has induced.

Ad astra reply

22/06/2011Folks What a traumatic yet revealing episode of [i]Go back to where you came from[/i] on SBS 1 this evening. Every voting Australian should see this series. It's been a long day preparing this piece and responding to the previous one, so I'm calling it a day. I'll respond to your comments tomorrow.

TalkTurkey

22/06/2011I posted the below on the previous thread before I saw this new one . . . And I wouldn't like to deprive anyone of the sublime pleasure of The STUNTMAN Tune: Taxman/George Harrison/Beatles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maz9ddxEQnM One, two, three, four, One, two, one two three four! Let me tell you how it will be: It's all about no-one but me! Should my seat numbers be too small, I'll never accept that at all! 'Cos I'm the Stunt Man! Yeah, I'm the Stunt Man! If you say yes then I'll say no! And I'll say stop when you say go! You say Giddup then I'll say whoa! If you say quick then I'll say slow! Stuntman! 'Cos I'm the Stunt Man! Yeah, I'm the Stunt Man! Don't ask me what I do that for, (Ah-ha, Julia Gillard) I'm only gonna do it more! (Ah-ha, Mister Swan) 'Cos I'm the Stunt Man! Yeah, I'm the Stunt Man! I'm only gonna tell you once, I'll never stop my cunning stunts! 'Cos I'm the Stunt Man! Yeah, I'm the Stunt Man! And it's all about no-one but me.

lyn

22/06/2011Talk Turkey Congratulations, Just brilliant, Mr Clever. Cheers :):):)

Feral Skeleton

22/06/2011Sorry to carry this over from the previous blog but PatriciaWA directed a comment to me and I am just replying to it: PatriciaWA, I'm not saying that the Refugee Advocates would not fight for the Burmese to stay here if they got here by boat, I was just trying to point out the hypocrisy of their stance in that they only seem to care about those asylum seekers who do arrive by boat. I can't even remember them jumping up and down about the visa overstayers who claim refugee status, they just seem to focus, in the same way that the Coalition does, on Asylum Seekers that come here on boats. That they don't seem prepared to acknowledge, even for a brief moment, that it is a good thing that the government has found a way to get some of those Chin and Karen refugees out of their Malaysian dead ends, which we saw tonight on SBS, well, I just find that reprehensible. Misguided in their allegiances, maybe, but no less reprehensible for it. Like the Coalition, they just want to attack, attack, attack.

D Mick Weir

22/06/2011NormanK, TT, PatriciaWA, macca I have responded (briefly) on the previous post.

Patricia WA

23/06/2011Do you really think that Tony Abbott has induced that lethargy by himself, AA? Doesn't that gives him more credit than he deserves? He's had a lot of help and support from vested interests in mining and industry and their powerful media allies. They saw in him the one person who would serve their purpose in reversing what looked like an unstoppable environmental reform process in Canberra once Labor came to power. I wonder if they'll hang on to him closer to election time? Abbott, once Opposition Leader, set out to underme and discredit Kevin Rudd in the public's mind with the help of MSM. This made it easy for him to be brought down, particularly since his management style meant he had little support within his own party. It's astonishing how the public have fallen for the idea that Julia Gillard 'assassinated' him suddenly in the night! Now that's become part of the denigration of Julia Gillard, along with The Lie about the carbon tax. It says a lot about her strength and capacity that her party are still solidly behind her, as well as the Greens and Independents, and that together they're getting so much legislation through both Houses and look like achieving those very environmental and other reforms the mining lobby are resisting and which contributed to Rudd's downfall. I do think climate change lethargy has been partly caused by Tony Abbott's manic focus on seemingly different issues e.g. the mining tax, NBN and the Queensland flood levy. He publicly embraced the global warming science (no longer crap?) but questioned how much of it was man made. But, with his spiritual mentor, Cardinal Pell an avowed sceptic, and the Coalition's Direct Action Plan designed for easy discard, it's hard to believe that he's not still a denialist. Lord Monckton will be in Perth next week at the AMEC convention as major speaker, his visit funded by his Gina Reinhardt, fan of Andrew Bolt. His invitation to speak was organised by Twiggy Forrest who has organised further meetings between himself. Monkton and Abbott. Now where did I read that? Too sleepy to find out. Goodnight!

lyn

23/06/2011 - [b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]On the QT: Like a Broken Pencil, Greg Jericho, Grog's Gamut[/i] So why did the Liberals let his Bill pass without even a vote? Here’s Sue Dunlevy of The Oz quoting Opposition families spokesman Kevin Andrews: http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/ [i]Tony Abbott’s plebiscite: a case of selective memory? Barry Everingham, Independent Australia[/i] Tony Abbott has gone over the edge. He is mad, he is bad, he is dangerous to know and he should never under any circumstances whatsoever be handed the keys to our nation’s future. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/politics/tony-abbotts-plebiscite-a-case-of-selective-memory/ [i]The Media in Words, Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] Despite the obvious tendency for these polls to be rigged, the resulting map was deemed front page 'news' on the ABC website, which sparked an understandable outcry over the media manufacturing news out of nothing. http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ [i]Replacing Rudd was the right thing to do, Tim Dunlop, The Drum[/i] He is a constant source of stories for a rabid media that thrives on the sort of petty conflict his every pledge of support for Prime Minister Gillard elicits, and he seems quite content to feed them. http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2767806.html [i]A phone call? Are you serious?, Ash, Ash's Mahiavellian Bloggery[/i] And still, Abbott and Morrison play their game of filth. Pick up the phone they say. Call the president of Nauru they say. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/a-phone-call-are-you-serious/ [i]Sold Out, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless[/i] Such stories represent the kind of high-value journalism that MSM defenders fancy themselves as producing on a regular basis, but the reality is that journalists can't and don't tell those stories http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/ [i]Gillard, Labor: same boat, no paddle, Mungo MacCallum, Northern Rivers Echo[/i] we were treated to yet another pompous and self-obsessed editorial in The Australian sneering at the Fairfax press. “The decline in relevance of these papers is directly related to their surrender to advocacy journalism, ” thundered Rupert’s flagship http://www.echonews.com.au/story/2011/06/23/gillard-labor-same-boat-no-paddle/ [i]Kev's just a soul whose intentions are good: "Assassination party" was media invention, Vex News[/i] Someone can hopefully help aging lefty email newsletter writer Bernard Keane to do a Google search so he can figure out the difference between the ex-PM referring in jest tohis “assassination day” http://www.vexnews.com/news/13722/kevs-just-a-soul-whose-intentions-are-good-assassination-party-was-media-invention/ [i]Lights! Camera! Quiet on the set! And…. STUNT, Ash, Ash' Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] Stunt Pictures, Mr Abbott http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/lights-camera-quiet-on-the-set-and-stunt/ [i]Tony Abbott's past 12 months, in your words, ABC[/i] Today we asked what three words best described your thoughts on the performance of Tony Abbott's Opposition since Ms Gillard took over the top job. http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/julia-gillard-first-year/abbott/ [i]How Gina Rinehart will become the world’s richest person, Tim Treadgold, Crikey[/i] she would be worth $30 billion, putting her in the top 10 of the Forbes rich list headed by Mexican telephone magnate, Carlos Slim, at $US74 billion, with Microsoft founder, Bill Gates, second at $US56 billion. http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/06/22/how-gina-rinehart-will-become-the-worlds-richest-person/ [i]Mitchell and The Oz (part II): ‘it’s now war’ with the government, Andrew Dodd,Crikey[/i] Defence Minister Stephen Smith’s office opted to reveal the problems direct to the parliament in question time, thereby ruining the paper’s “exclusive” planned for the following day. http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/06/22/mitchell-and-the-oz-part-ii-its-now-war-with-the-government/ [i]NBN: a long time coming, Gary Sauer Thompson, Public Opinion[/i] Creating a national high-speed broadband network and ending Telstra’s domination of fixed line telecommunications means that Telstra then runs a retail service only. Its management strategy is-- http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2011/06/nbn-a-long-time.php#more [i]GREEN DEALS: Chalk & cheese in climate science, Giles Parkinson, Climate Spectator[/i] Minchin gave his valedictory speech in the Senate on Tuesday and was sticking to his guns, rejecting the idea of any human contribution to climate change. "The zealotry and obsessive passion of these warriors in the battle http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/green-deals-chalk-cheese-climate-science [i]Direct geothermal energy could be key to our clean energy future, Ian Johnston, The Conversation[/i] A significant amount of electrical power in Australia is generated with brown coal. Replacing 75% of this with a totally clean renewable energy source would reduce greenhouse gas emissions to as little as 25% of what occurs with current practice. http://theconversation.edu.au/direct-geothermal-energy-could-be-key-to-our-clean-energy-future-285 [i]Coalition climate stance creating 'bitter' debate, Jeremy Thompson, ABC[/i] The intervention came as Opposition Leader Tony Abbott reportedly called Family First Senator Steve Fielding to ask him to reconsider his opposition to the proposed plebiscite on carbon tax. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/22/3250258.htm [i]Memo to Federal Minister Joe Ludwig: Australian Meat Industry Council and I agree, Clarencegirl, North Coast Voices[/i] Indeed I would go further and say that all live animal export should be permanently banned across the board. This ban to be implemented over a three year period to allow for some export industry adjustment. http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com/2011/06/memo-to-federal-minister-joe-ludwig.html [i]Go back to where you came from, Jennifer Wilson, No Place for Sheep[/i] powerful argument for how people’s attitudes can shift when they are face to face with human suffering. All the propagandists from John Howard on have recognized the need to hide boat people away in desert camps http://noplaceforsheep.com/2011/06/22/go-back-to-where-you-came-from/ [i]Different people, same attitude,Louise Maher, The Drum[/i] I'm watching Raquel being forced to confront her basic prejudices about people with different colour skin I'm also confronting my own attitudes to people who are "different", people whose values I do not share. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/22/3250773.htm?WT.mc_id=newsmail [i]It's not "tough" to demonise the Vulnerable, Jeremy Sear, An Onymous Lefty[/i] the government should pick up the phone to re-establish a processing centre in Nauru. It ignores the fact that the Pacific Solution cost more than $1 billion over five years, at enormous human pain, yet diverted only 46 persons away from Australia, at a cost of $35,000 each. http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/ [i]Reality TV Gets Real, Mike Carey, New Matilda[/i] Go Back’ have any programs given viewers the opportunity to walk in a refugee’s shoes or literally sleep on an asylum seeker’s leaky boat? I can’t remember many, perhaps a couple http://newmatilda.com/2011/06/22/reality-tv-gets-real [i]Back to basics on asylum seeker policy, Kerry Murphy, Eureka Street[/i] 'stop the boats' rhetoric, however it continued like an annoying whine in the background. The slogan was ramped up to almost hysterical levels under Abbott. As more boats arrived, the cry to 'stop the boats' only got louder. http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=26889# [i]Minchin delivers final Senate speech, The Stump.[/i] I do remain optimistic that one day the world will realise that carbon dioxide is more of a friend than an enemy to the earth’s flora and fauna, and I do seriously believe that, given the extraordinary complexity of the natural forces controlling our climate, http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/2011/06/22/minchin-delivers-final-senate-speech/ [i]Better Political reporting Is The Key To Better Politics, DragOnista, King's Tribune[/i] the politically engaged, who seek objectivity and analysis, are then driven elsewhere to interact with similarly-interested,if not necessarily like-minded, voters http://www.kingstribune.com/magazines/june-2011/1288-better-political-reporting-is-the-key-to-better-politics [b]Newspapers[/b] [i]Opposition told to curb its criticism on Malaysian visit, Kirsty Needham, SMH[/i] Tony Abbott, has transferred his remaining overseas travel allowance to Mr Morrison, so in effect Mr Morrison is representing Mr Abbott http://www.smh.com.au/national/opposition-told-to-curb-its-criticism-on-malaysian-visit-20110622-1gfjr.html [i]Liberal MP George Christensen has gone a little tutu far , Simon Benson, The Telegraph[/i] They have not said anything about the religion that actually inspires the torture of cattle there," he told parliament on Tuesday night. "I find that very hypocritical." http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/liberal-mp-george-christensen-has-gone-a-little-tutu-far/story-e6freuzi-1226080236474

Michael

23/06/2011Today's Bad Abbott http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/give-up-an-en-suite-or-world-goes-down-toilet-20110622-1gfax.html where Elizabeth Farrelly nails both Shouldabeen... and Australia.

Ad astra reply

23/06/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

lyn

23/06/2011Hi Michael Thankyou for your "Bad Abbott Report" and your interesting link this morning'. There sure is a lot out there today isn't there. Couple of notable lines from Your link Michael, Elizabeth has Bad Abbott sorted. [quote]Abbott is looking shifty and expedient while Gillard, for the first time as leader, looks principled.[/quote] [quote]there's always his 2009 pro-carbon-tax YouTube clip. It may prove even harder to live down than the budgie-smugglers.[/quote] [quote]Two years is a long time in politics, especially for the unprincipled[/quote] Cheers :):)

janice

23/06/2011Good morning all, Below is another post from Bushfire Bill over at Poll Bludger - [quote]Bushfire Bill Posted Thursday, June 23, 2011 at 8:14 am | Permalink So I suppose today’s The Day, one year on. We were supposed to have a plebiscite rolling the Coalition into government. According to the script, the government was sure to lose it and Tony Abbott would shame Gillard into resigning and calling an election. A carefully crafted series of polls, internet stunts like The Cloud, articles on how Rudd was all but selecting wallpaper for the Lodge and K House and and endless, buzzing barrage of shock-jock insults and mockery were supposed to soften her up, ready for the kill. Gee, it all looked so good on paper, didn’t it? The fairy story, concocted through a manic News Ltd and an outright insane Coalition leadership, that Gillard was gone, fell apart under the weight of its own ridiculousness. As proof of just how ridiculous it was, I offer you one compelling piece of logic: even Steve Fielding wouldn’t buy into it. When Fielding runs a mile, you know whatever it is he’s running from is truly frightening. When Fonzie jumped the shark on a pair of water skis all those years ago it popped the bubble of suspended disbelief that so many fans would blow around them when they sat down to watch Happy Days. Suddenly they saw their favourite show for what it was… an over-egged fantasy world where everyone was nice, even the nasties. And it was getting tired. This week I have the hope that the same has happened to the Coalition. They had their chance, nearly a year of relentless negativism designed to destabilize the hung parliament, and indeed the nation itself. The only way they could get the punters on side with their wet dream of a guerrilla usurpation of the government was to convince the gullible out there that the country was so fu*ked that even Tony Abbott couldn’t bugger it up further. They set the bar so low that even the intellectually lame and the logically halt could jump it. Some snippets… Pensioners cowering in their homes, with only their AM radios and their telephones left to call 2GB for emergency assistance, in case the man came around to burn their house down with a free set-top-box. A tinpot guano nation in the middle of the Pacific, smaller than the fullstop at the end of this sentence, held up as a stirring example of man’s humanity to man. It’s farcical government only functional enough to hold out its hand to take Australian aid dollars. Senior members of our “Alternative Government” went there to sit under the coconut tree and do a deal with this bastion of democracy, just as the Russian Mafia had done, in years past. Scott Morrison may find that the Malaysians are not as welcoming as our Micronesian welfare junkies in Nauru. Nauru may find that the Australian government is also not so welcoming to their next plea for a handout. I hope so. The News Ltd publications running public campaigns to destroy the Greens, and then crying foul when Bob Brown ticked them off about it. They published poll after poll, one upon the other, designed to make polls themselves the story, vying with each other to show an even more dismal picture for Labor. When the matriarch of the Murdoch family finally cried “Enough!” on Climate Change, the bloated, malignant Akerman, fresh from providing ballast for an ocean-going yacht, sheepishly told a national TV audience and an incredulous Insiders panel that she was past it, too old and frail to make a rational decision. When there’s a new low to establish, you can always rely on Piers to step up to the plate. Rational decisions weren’t out of bounds for only the aged. “Elites” were banned from participation too. If you had money, were an actress, or a scientist, perhaps even if you’d been to school sometime in your life, you were excised from society. If someone who knew someone you knew did a corrupt deal anywhere, you were disqualified from ever working for the government. Mike Quigley’s distant connection with some of his employees’ antics in Costa Rica was enough to have him hauled before parliamentary committees and vilified in the Murdoch press for being – not quite a crook – but definitely a shady character. It never occurred to his inquisitors that if this was all you needed to do to be barred from senior office, they’d better start packing their own bags as well, especially the egregious Senator Abetz, friend and mentor to one Godwin Grech and not too distant descendant of a long line of obedient gauleiters. There were so many more… a nation and employment-saving scheme that built much-needed school infrastructure turned into a debacle of almost biblical proportions. An insulation program that actually saved lives, turned into a murderous rort that was killing our youth. $900 cheques, the first measure of the emergency response to the GFC, vilified as recently as yesterday for putting money into the hands of the Bogans so they could buy a bigger plasma TV. Hello? I didn’t hear Gerry Harvey complaining when all this cash was splashed about, propping up his overpriced franchises. The re-emergence of Reith, the casually cold hearted warrior against working people, touted now as the new leader of the Liberal Party, back from Paris after sucking a million or two in salary off the government tit in an obscure sinecure. How appropriatement, Reithy. the concocted crisis of the Boat People, a drop in the ocean compared to the world refugee problem, in turn vilified and then succoured by an increasingly bizarre and smirking Morrison. And finally we had the cherry on top, the culmination of it all: The Plebiscite. A scam that, whose decision, if ever taken, and if it went the wrong way, not even its originators and spruikers would abide by. Even Fielding, a sucker for every three card trick in the book, could see through that one. It took Steve six years minus 7 days to wake up, but there you go, miracles do happen. Maybe I’ll take up God. The bubble has burst and the shark has been jumped. The urgers from the right leave in their wake a disaster: a nation divided, miserable, in a state of chronic ire over everything, and nothing. The ultra Right made the assessment that in order to save Australia they first had to destroy it. To have any chance of scrambling into government, they had to destroy faith in governance first. What they didn’t actually destroy they would write up as destroyed anyway. Same difference, really. Constant negativity, the politicisation of two flies crawling up a wall, the turning of a once confident country into a national Reality TV show where petty jealousies, arrogant ungratefulness, constant barking from the sidelines and vacuous, unceasing harangues from overpaid shills telling us we should be miserable and angry… these all have consequences. If I have a prayer, it’s that the next real calamity to hit us – be it GFC#2, or another season of mega-floods and Cat-5 cyclones – holds off for long enough to allow the nation to recover its lost spirit. We can’t take much more of this dumbing-down. We’re just about stunted-out. Australia should turn off its TVs and its radios and simply open the window. They should look outside and see that the World hasn’t ended, that the nation isn’t in ruins, that a tumbleweed rolling down the street has more substance and meaning to it than a thousand Abbott brain-farts… that they’ve been conned, but that there’s still time to recover, if only they’ll open that window. [/quote]

Feral Skeleton

23/06/2011janice, I miss Bushfire Bill on TPS. :( Still, thank you for bringing his verbal bushfire to our eyes today. Frankly, I go through fits and starts with PB. It takes a lot of time to keep up with it, and TPS and Twitter are enough for me in my busy life atm. So thank you again for being a PB stalwart. I'd love to be able to fire up as eloquently as BB, however having been browbeaten recently by everyone from the resident troll, jj, to observers from other blogs, I'm finding it hard to find the positive momentum to write again, plus a bit of this and that on the personal side thrown in for good measure, and so there you go. Maybe one day again soon... Until then, I'll keep putting my 2c-worth in here in the comments, reading everyone else's erudite contributions and enjoying Bushfire Bill's tour de force of expression brought to us regularly here.

lyn

23/06/2011Good Morning Ad Now you have left me speechless so how can I type what I want to say, just jesting. Thankyou Ad for another fabulous article, 2 great big articles nearly at once. I love your method of your opinion between the paragraphs, that lets me know exactly what you think on every angle, also gives me a greater understanding. Somebody else has done that for me typing answers under the paragraphs, but I can't remember who it was. The amount of information out there now, and in recent months on Climate Change is staggering. I can't possibly see how anyone can be a denier and put on a straight face. Very true words: [quote] The reason sceptical science is going on so strongly now is because the [b]evidence is so strong [/b]you have to actually deny physics, to actually oppose what the climate scientists are saying. So that's why it gets so extreme and then it stops. And that's what history says that we do consistently - avoid, avoid and then oh my God! Then we act. And that's how it's be on this one as well.” [/quote] The chief troupier: the follies of Christopher Monckton, John Abraham, Climate Spectator [quote]He makes mistakes on polar bears, claims that the ocean is cooling, claims that the planet is cooling, claims that ocean rises will not be significant, claims that ocean acidification is not a concern, claims that recent global warming is caused by cloud changes, and so on. Instead of fighting science and demeaning climate scientists, we should focus on solutions. We really don’t need more Moncktons in this debate. We need people who are respectful, scientifically literate and focused on solutions. We need people who are not afraid of trusting in our own ingenuity to solve this problem. We need people who have the courage to take action now for the sake of our future generations. Wouldn’t that be a breath of fresh air?[/quote] Have a nice day Ad:):):):)

lyn

23/06/2011Hi Janice Thankyou for leg roping Bushfire Bill for us. we all value and admire his writing so much. I think he is nearly as wonderful as Ad Astra. I wonder if anyone else shares my opinion: I believe Bushfire Bill's work is wasted on "The Poll Bludger" being mixed up in, what is it 3 to 4 thousand comments, not getting the appreciation BB deserves. His articles would be much more appreciated and valued here. Cheers:):):):)

Steve

23/06/2011Humanity's epitaph "Greed and Avarice blinded them from the warnings of Science and Nature" Life on Earth has survived world wide cataclysms in the past, it will do so again. What irony, the smartest animal so far on Earth brought down by it's own stupidity.

TalkTurkey

23/06/2011To BB from TT: You owe me a note To acknowledge my nice little pome what I wrote! I know you got sent it, cos Ad astra said, And like Lyn I think you should be back here instead! But wherever you send it, Friend Bill, I think your writing sparkles as none other in the blogofirmanent. (K)! It makes us all aspire to write better ourselves. Today's post was absolutely dazzling, thanks Janice for bringing it over here.

TalkTurkey

23/06/2011With such posts as BB's on PB, and to a less acute degree here with the more literarily-crafted posts here on TPS, I just wish they didn't wash away so instantly, these are diamonds of insight and pearls of wisdom just going out to sea with the very next wave, not even a tide away. At least on TPS you get a few days' consideration - and btw I'm not attacking PB, I think it's great for poll stuff and quickie allsorts, and I go there very often, and Bilbo is beyond clever, wise I reckon, but if it weren't for such as Janice and Lyn and Jason pointing your articles out to us Bill we'd have missed BB's brilliant latest post in the twinkling of an eye, no way can I keep up with all the posts on PB! His special gift in particular needs a bit more digestion, IMO. Actually I've never worked out why or indeed whether there is an (unwritten?) protocol not to multi-post such stuff as yours . . . But me, IF I'm only going to post to one blog not my own, it will be TPS as far as I can predict. I would like to hear other people's comments on multiposting . . . please? I just want the blogosphere to be as effective as it can be to confront Them.

lyn

23/06/2011Hi Talk Turkey Thankyou, what a lovely little note. I think Bushfire Bill might come back to TPS. Talk Turkey, I am guessing you never need to buy a greeting card with a factory manufactured verse. "multiposting" I suppose it's done in "Today's Links" I multipost the authors words in the excerpts, not much different from posting a comment is it? Keeps everyone informed not done for a bad reason only good, after all. I would think I was pretty smart and clever if anyone moved one of my comments to another blog, flattery. Cheers :):):):):):):):)

NormanK

23/06/2011lyn Thanks for the link to the George Christensen article. That's my local representative. Makes me proud! Not because they've got a photo of him in a tutu, I could dig one out of myself in similar attire, but because he is a racist sexist bigoted fool. And we elected him. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/liberal-mp-george-christensen-has-gone-a-little-tutu-far/story-e6freuzi-1226080236474

D Mick Weir

23/06/2011Morning All, a quick hit and I must run. FS, was this written for you? :P [b]Labor Woes? Show Me The Labor Woes[/b] - Ben Pobjie - New Matilda http://newmatilda.com/2011/06/23/labor-woes-what-labor-woes [i]The great Australian Labor Party in strife? You’ll have a hard time convincing Ben Pobjie that's the case. He's read the polls and he can still see the light on the hill How can the Australian Labor Party stop being such a pathetic bunch of losers? Some people think this is quite an important question, but more intelligent people who read bigger books and watch East West 101 realise that in fact it is a very stupid question, ... It’s just not fair to demand that the Labor Party find solutions to its horrible problems without first establishing that these problems exist — if they wanted to deal with problems that don’t exist, they would have joined the Greens.[/i]

TalkTurkey

23/06/2011Lyn said, amongst other things, "I would think I was pretty smart and clever if anyone moved one of my comments to another blog, flattery." Lyn you are so clever that * everyone under the Southern Cross * comes to TPS because of You! * * And that's not even flattery. * I tried to do a Crux before but the programme distorted it. I'll try again with different proportions. Forgive me if it's not good. I do love our beautiful southern stars.

Gravel

23/06/2011Ad Astra Thank you for your comprehensive post. I do like the way you have quoted then added your own comment. Yes I am scared about the effects of global warming. Not for myself, but for my two sons and four grandsons, my nieces and nephews and their children. Thank you for your response on the previous thread about Abbott. Any one replacing Abbott will be given the same red carpet, easy ride treatment that Abbot has got because the media, business and everyone with influence in Australia want a Coalition government to do their bidding. Macca Although there has always been an underlying racism in Australia, every leader in Australia since the 70's has not played the racist card until Howard. He used it when the Tampa episode happened, and using the words "We will decide who comes to this country and how they get here" opened the floodgates. The now opposition ramped it all up again as soon as Labor got in in 2007. I still can't believe that people weren't seeing what the opposition was doing, long before Abbott became leader, he just put it in three word slogans and so here we are. We watched the SBS program again last night. It has confirmed to me that what the Labor government are doing with the Malaysian agreement is the only way for now to try and take this horrific issue that should not exist, off the political agenda. Maybe then in time to come Australia can regain some humanity if they are not being told 'another boatload of people have arrived' causing the oppositions shrill cries of lookout we will be over run. Janice Thank you for posting that article from Bushfire Bill, he is excellent. I thought it fitted perfectly with what Macca (I think) had written at the end of the last thread.

Ad astra reply

23/06/2011TT Your verse is so apt and the Beatles tune a fine match. I think many, even in the media, are seeing the shallowness of the stuntman, who has nothing else to offer. It’s about time. Patricia WA You are right – it has not been Tony Abbott alone who has induced the lethargy we see in the community about global warming. He has had plenty of help from the Murdoch media, the miners and the climate skeptics, one of whom, Lord Monckton, is soon to be here again, sponsored by the miners. Tony Abbott has a big decision to make – will he associate with Monckton in a public way? If he does, the label of climate skeptic/denier will stick to Abbott even more tenaciously. Michael Elizabeth Farrelly’s piece is good reading, although I don’t agree with her description of Julia Gillard’s so-called cave-ins. How good was the cartoon! To stand firm and win on the carbon tax after all the anti-Gillard poison that Tony Abbott has sprayed around would be a monumental achievement.

TalkTurkey

23/06/2011 * * * * * One more try. Crux has to be on our new flag after all.

Ad astra reply

23/06/2011janice Thank you for posting BB’s comment on PB. He’s always great reading. I look forward to his returning to authorship on [i]TPS[/i]. Steve I like your quote: ”[i]Greed and Avarice blinded them from the warnings of Science and Nature"[/i].

lyn

23/06/2011Hi Norman K How delightful your comment is this morning.(giggle, giggle) for me. I would love to see you in a tutu, make for a different Gravatar do you think, you could do it on your web cam perhaps. Seriously though how big a nut case is George Christensen. The voters elected him not you NormanK. Bad Abbott let loose again: Monckton's Nazi jibe 'over the top': Abbott, ABC Mr Abbott and Lord Monckton are both speaking at the Association of Mining and Exploration Companies (AMEC) conference in Perth next week, although they are appearing on different days. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/23/3251483.htm?section=justin

NormanK

23/06/2011TalkTurkey You need to make use of 'Preview' and Comment' above the comments box. It will show you exactly how your text will be formatted once it is posted. You can Preview as many times as you wish. Return to the comments box for editing by selecting 'Comment'.

Michael Z

23/06/2011When it comes down to it the problem is still the population. There are too many people, and even if global warming never existed we would still hit the hard barrier of the size of the planet. It's pretty obvious we already have. The green revolution just postponed the inevitable and made the problem bigger. But that's ok, there's always a natural solution to this - starvation and perhaps extinction. The planet will keep turning, and even life will go on (but perhaps not life as we know it ...). Expect to see more nonsense from the likes of steven hawking about colonising other planets - for a so-called physicist he doesn't seem to have a very good grasp of the energy equation here. Not to mention the religious nuts who are equally deluded thinking in thinking some god will save them (or even worse, wanting it to end in a cataclysm ASAP).

TalkTurkey

23/06/2011 Thank you Norman(K) That really was the crux! The programme shrinks the lateral axis a lot. * * * * * Here is our beautiful Southern Cross, better now. And I've learnt a little thing too. :)

macca

23/06/2011OT I know. But this a reply to PWA from the other thread. I was born and grew up in the Swan Valley. A multicultural area before the term was even coined. In think of all the vignerons who lived there we were one of about 5 families of Australian descent. Every other family were European/Meditteranian immigrants. All us kids went to the same school....two teachers, two classrooms 50/60 kids. It really was a wonderful childhood. Quite simply, the hate wasn't there. The New Australians, as immigrants were called in those days, were needed to help build a country. And they did. What I see now is that the hate media, and their political allies, are deliberately formenting a divisive racism in this country. Not because of strongly held beliefs but to further a political agenda. They have worked out that the percentage of the vote they need to get over the line lies in the inherent racism of middle Australia. It's an insidiuos campaign. A creeping evil, if you will, and it is working. From what I have seen every story seems to end with the statement; " Well I'm glad you have stopped beating your wife and children.....but?" People who I know to be intelligent, thoughtful and generous have developed, if not a blind hatred, a harsh indifference, to the plight of refugees. This is plan the hate architects have implemented. It is working. It chills me to the bottom of my soul. That this country has come to this saddens me. We can only blunt the hate. BTW, As we had relatives living in Coogee I have great memories of fish and chips, on the foreshore, from the original Ciccorellos. Never tasted better. As A footnote; Change the words refugee/asylum seeker for global warming/climate change and the plan is still the same.

janice

23/06/2011FS, I'm pleased you enjoyed Bushfire's piece. I'm a bit sad though that you have allowed those one-eyed critics to sap your confidence because you have a lot to contribute and you are very good at putting up a forceful and rational argument. You do know that you wouldn't have been singled out for criticism if you hadn't been hitting some raw nerves, don't you? I like to read Poll Bludger (don't post many comments though) because there is a mine of information to be had over there and it is not so time consuming if you know how to use your scrolling mouse well :D: Talk Turkey, Love your "stuntman" pome. The little "note" you wrote to BB won't go astray as I'm sure he will read it, and I'm just as sure that eventually we will entice him back here.

Ad astra reply

23/06/2011Hi Lyn Thank you for your kind comments. You highlight the reason why skeptical science is still going strong – the accumulating evidence is so strong, and getting stronger, that the skeptics have to fight harder and harder to discredit it. I hope it soon becomes so overwhelming that only the most extreme case hardened deniers will dispute it. The skeptics argue that their opinions ought to be heard and scientists agree; the Chief Scientist, Professor Ian Chubb, said so on [i]Lateline[/i] last night, although he deplored Lord Monckton’s use of ‘fascist’ and ‘Nazi’ in referring to Ross Garnaut. But we have an unequal fight. True scientists use the scientific method where hypotheses or theories are tested by strict adherence to established methods. They accept that a hypothesis or theory can be scientific only if it can be tested, and agree with Karl Popper’s dictum that a theory must be open to falsification. So no theory can be ‘proved’ absolutely, but of course it can be disproved. So when the skeptics ask scientists for the absolute proof that they are right, they can never provide it; all they can offer is a level of probability that they are right. Indeed scientists use a measure called statistical significance, which is conventionally set at a cutoff level of 5%, which, if reached, means that there is only a one in twenty likelihood that the result of an experiment is due to chance. The higher the figure, for example that there is only a one in a thousand likelihood that the result is due to chance, the stronger the ‘proof’. Many of the prominent skeptics, such as Lord Monckton, seem prepared to abandon the scientific method when they present their arguments. Instead of debating climate scientists on a level playing field, using the same rules of scientific proof as scientists do, they cherry pick the evidence that suits their case and ignore that which does not, distort graphs by truncation, and use evidence that is not capable of being tested. I have seen a video of a Lord Monckton lecture and can testify that this is his technique. He is a very articulate and convincing speaker and able to persuade those who are not familiar with the scientific method that what he says is plausible. I saw him debating a rather timid climate scientist, whose arguments in support of global warming were swept away with an imperious wave of the hand and a counter argument that did not refute the scientist’s argument, but rather went off on another track that suited Monckton’s argument. In other words they were not debating the same point. It was like a football fan arguing that his team’s captain was the best in the league while another fan countered by saying that his team’s coach was the best – the disconnect resulting in no conclusion at all. This is why our best climate scientists will not debate Moncton. He refuses to play by the rules of science, preferring to play by his own cherry picking rules that distort the evidence and spread misinformation. It is not possible to have a genuine scientific discussion with him; his stylish rhetoric enables him to promulgate unscientific nonsense and get away with it among those who are not scientifically literate, although intelligent and well informed in their own sphere. He is dangerous because he is so plausible, and so well equipped with catchy sayings and believable slogans that his admirers mindlessly repeat. Does he remind you of anybody?

TalkTurkey

23/06/2011Four words whose common usage has outrageously inverted their true meaning: Paedophile: "Lover of children" Manufacture: "To make by hand" Astrology: "Science of the stars" Skeptic/sceptic: "One who inclines to suspense of judgement, given to questioning truth of facts . . . " Much too good a word for the likes of gutter-slime like Monckton and Plimer! They are not skeptics, they are lying deniers and that's all. Such as he and Plimer are planet-criminals imo.

NormanK

23/06/2011macca A broad-sweeping note of thanks for your recent comments. Keep it up.

Patricia WA

23/06/2011macca, responding to your comment, the last athttp://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2011/06/20/Looking-down-from-the-grandstand-where-the-experts-are.aspx I'm delighted to tell you we can still get fish and chips from Cicerello's here in Freo at Fisherman's Wharf! On the racism issue, perhaps my rosier perception is colored by my several years out of the workforce and total lack of exposure to daily newspapers. That's not quite true, my family next door do pass on The West Australian and The Ozn but for several years now I have simply pulled out the Crossword pages and then re-cycled the rest. I do read some of their articles on the web through lyn's and other links and get a sense of the outrage of people like ourselves about the Coalition's encouragement of ignorance and prejudice on issues like boat people and climate change. Perhaps after experiencing first hand how critical climate change is for our environment while at the same time seeing so many people of different ethnic, religious and racial origin on our streets these days seemingly well integrated into the community I had assumed that racism [i]per se[/i] was not a first order issue for most Australians. The Boat People issue, I assumed, was political exploitation of the fear some have of invasion of our vast and largely vacant continent via our vulnerable coastline. (Very sorry about all those Vs!) Being 'girt by sea' hasn't yet bred a sturdy mariner streak in the newly evolving Aussie national character, rather, too many of us live in suburbs where hydrophobia' ([i]sic![/i]) has emerged with a symptomatic over-concern about 'unauthorised boat arrivals' carrying hordes of people of bad character with criminal or ill intent, like potential enemy aliens. Malcolm Fraser's much mentioned opening of our arms to Chinese refugees in 1989 is no proof that Australians would happily do that for people of any race or creed at any other time. The character of those particular boat people were already vouched for, and our hearts already opened, by our exposure to the many and distressing images of those young, idealistic and well-educated protesters being slaughtered in Tienanmen Square by a ruthless Communist regime. Middle class, intellectuals, victims of the Red Army, they found a ready welcome here. On reflection now, I can see we need more documentary evidence of the kind provided by http://www.sbs.com.au/shows/goback. Probably the paucity of news images showing the very real suffering of people in countries where Australians themselves are at war is contributing to indifference to their plight. About racism generally I see a huge improvement since my own years of grappling with it both in my school and later in a non-profit organisation generating employment for migrants, aboriginal people and the long term unemployed. In the eighties I could guarantee almost instant employment for a newly immigrant Iranian whose skin tone and features varied little from the average tanned Aussie, no matter how poor their English. Not so for Africans, however well educated and well spoken, and certainly not for young Aboriginals, no matter how sober and well dressed. Without mentioning names I recall the Chairman of our local footie club asking our help to find work for an already popular player, a handsome, well spoken young man who was to become an AFL star. When I see so many Aboriginal men, and women too, in jobs throughout the community serving in our police force and health services as well as teaching I have no doubt that particular kind of racism is much diminished. Yes we still see instances of extreme injustice, but they are seen and protested against vigorously. Sorry, AA, off topic for too long, but Yes! I am very scared about the effects of global warming.

Ad astra reply

23/06/2011Michael Z Welcome to the [i]TPS[/i] family. Do come again. I hope that man will have the wit to act before catastrophic changes occur, but the signs so far, at least in this country, are not promising. The planet will survive, but will humans?

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23/06/2011Gravel Thank you for your comments. I see you watched [i]Go back to where you came from[/i]. It’s a pity that more people did not watch it. 524,000 watched it on TV (a record for SBS), another 5,000 on line, and 35,000 visited the ‘Go back’ website. As it has had a lot of publicity and is to be repeated on SBS 2 for the next three nights, there may be a lot more come second time around. There is also talk of it being made available to schools. While it will not change everyone’s attitude, it will likely change the attitude of many of those who see it. Whatever policy the Government adopts, let’s hope more of our citizens will embrace a more humane approach to these unfortunate folk.

NormanK

23/06/2011How many of our erstwhile and diligent Press Galley will pick up on Warren Truss's words this afternoon? We need to wait for Hansard in order to get the exact wording but he said, as part of his Seconding of the Motion to Suspend Standing Orders, that one of the unfulfilled promises of the PM in the year since she assumed the leadership is asylum seekers. How does he measure the success or otherwise? Are the boats still coming? Yes. Have we had X number of irregular arrivals (I won't put words in his mouth but I don't think those are the words he chose)? Yes. On the Malaysian proposal he said words to the effect of: "Rather than stemming the flow, we are going to take another 4000 of them! We're going to take 5 for every one that we send back! How can that be a good deal?" Perhaps Mr Truss doesn't speak for the Coalition but can only be said to be speaking for The Nationals. In which case The Nationals don't see arrivals by boat as the problem but the actual number of refugees is what concerns them. This is reprehensible and if nothing else indicates a clear distinction between the two different policies, this single sentiment does it in spades. One side of the Parliament welcomes refugees but doesn't want to see them coming by boat. The other side would like to see the back of them. What mention can we expect to see of these remarks by Mr Truss? I expect none.

2353

23/06/2011Mockton accused Garnut of being a Nazi. GODWIN - he's just lost the argument. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Patricia WA

23/06/2011Well, NormanK, you may remember that was Abbott's immediate response to the Malaysian plan when it was first announced in early May. I recall his laughing at the idea with a comment that his wife had said something like 'Does that mean we get get four more here for every one we send back? That doesn't sound like a good deal to me!' Or did I imagine that?

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23/06/20112353, Patricia WA It looks like it’s not just boat arrivals that upset the Nationals/Coalition but the actual number coming, by whatever means. What a miserable lot!

lyn

23/06/2011Hi Ad Our Janice is not the only one to capture Bushfire Bill's brilliant comment on "The Poll Bludger" [i]Poll Bludger comment a telling report card on Abbotts opposition! Mark Thomson, Seeking Asylum Down Under[/i] [quote]The following comment appeared this morning on the Poll Bludger blog. [b]The author's pseudonym is Bushfire Bill. This deserves a wide readership:[/b] Australia should turn off its TVs and its radios and simply open the window. They should look outside and see that the World hasn’t ended, that the nation isn’t in ruins, that a tumbleweed rolling down the street has more substance and meaning to it than a thousand Abbott brain-farts… that they’ve been conned,[/quote] http://seekingasylumdownunder2.blogspot.com/ Cheers Lyn

Jason

23/06/2011Aa, If the "Nationals" were to die and disappear from the political landscape would anyone notice? Do they serve any useful purpose apart from selling out to the Liberals, so they can enjoy the "trappings" of office? To add insult to injury, the leadership team of Truss and Joyce just conjures up all those old "red neck" jokes about inbreeding. Truss shouldn't complain to much about the numbers of people coming to our shores as I remember large numbers going to country towns and keeping the meat works open, picking the fruit and generally keeping some towns "viable". The Nationals really are from an era tha has passed us by!

Jason

23/06/2011Aa, Here is Tony Abbott to help! http://climatechangeaction.org.au/new-web-video-tony-abbott-in-his-own-words/

Patricia WA

23/06/2011Just received an email as an ALP member telling me [quote]We've just released our new web video that highlights Tony Abbott's relentless negativity and steadfast refusal to put a price on pollution.[/quote] and suggesting I watch their new video http://climatechangeaction.org.au/new-web-video-tony-abbott-in-his-own-words/ which I did, really excited and optimistic. Was I ever let down. The intro is phoney, deliberately manipulative of Abbott's words and so undermining the credibility of the clip which follows. That clip consists simply of Abbott suggesting a carbon prioe. Sorry, there's a brief comment from him about the science of climate change being in doubt, followed by the written exhortation not to forget that Tony Abbott once suggested that the science of climate change is ABSOLUTE CRAP! It closes with a lot of noisy music. I thought this would be the nail in Abbott's coffin. Instead I get a piece of absolutely crappy work. Who will this convince to change their minds about Abbott?

janice

23/06/2011Lyn, [quote]Our Janice is not the only one to capture Bushfire Bill's brilliant comment on "The Poll Bludger" [/quote] Bushfire's piece got lots of kudos from Pollbludgers and he was asked permission to send it around the web! It has been tweeted and distributed widely.

janice

23/06/2011Jason, Truss kicked an own goal during QT when he asked the PM a question about the ban on life cattle exports. The PM gave him a serve about how the Howard Govt had bowed to Nat Party and exempted the live cattle export trade from using the compulsory NLIS ear tags which, of course, are the tracking devices needed to keep a check on our cattle over in Indonesia. This exemption saved the live cattle exporters $3.80 a head which is big bikkies to those exporters. For the rest of the cattle industry, no beast can leave the property without an NLIS device.

janice

23/06/2011Patricia, re that video you linked to. I went there but didn't watch it because that man sickens me! Then it occurred to me that I am not the the target and those who believe that lying, scheming reprobate are the target and therefore they would, no doubt, watch it. So maybe the idea behind it is that is pointless preaching to the converted?

Patricia WA

23/06/2011Yes, Janice, I had a re-think on my walk. Perhaps that's why I hated it so! I loathe Abbott too. Anyway it's not aimed at me, and probably not my generation. I'll be interested to read the views of others. Reading Minchin's valedictory today I remembered how of all the Liberals I actually liked him. Obviously though I disagreed with him on climate change he has never wavered from it as a personal conviction. I have forgiven him for that though since someone in my family of whom I am particularly fond is also a sceptic!

lyn

23/06/2011Hi Ad Be funny if Mr Morrison gets to Malaysia via Mr Abbotts travel funds, and nobody of importance talks to him. Malaysia dismisses Morrison visit,, SBS News A senior Malaysian government minister has dismissed coalition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison's visit to his country as empty opposition. Malaysian Home Minister Hishammuddin Hussein belittled Mr Morrison's visit. http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1563536/latest-from-wire/ Cheers :):):):)

Ad astra reply

23/06/2011Hi Lyn, Jason, Patricia WA Thank you all for your interesting links. When will the public wake up to the fact that Tony Abbott, Scott Morrison and most of the Coalition are hollow men and stunt merchants? It looks like Morrison will get short shrift in Malaysia. Tonight’s [i]Go back to where you came from[/i] was as dramatic as the rest – essential viewing for all who have an opinion about asylum seekers. Next Tuesday’s analysis will be fascinating. Despite the media’s and the Coalition’s attempts to make a big deal out of the anniversary, I doubt if it will have much effect. This is their last fling; the second anniversary will be of no interest. We shall now see Julia Gillard rise out of this while Abbott sinks into obscurity still muttering his malevolent mantras. I'm turning in for the night.

NormanK

23/06/2011Ad astra You will no doubt be deeply embarrassed (as I was) to learn that your response to 'Go Back ...' was wrong. I know this because Paul Sheehan told me so. [b]You call this even-handed? Refugee series is strictly for the gullible[/b] [quote]One of the most passionate and enduring debates in this country has been built on a falsity, a false choice that is being carefully recrafted, repackaged and re-presented on SBS this week, at taxpayer expense.[/quote] http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/you-call-this-evenhanded-refugee-series-is-strictly-for-the-gullible-20110622-1gfav.html?from=smh_sb Well done SBS. Sour grapes Mr Sheehan.

Feral Skeleton

23/06/2011I found that SBS 'Go Back' show very confronting, but it ways that seem very different to how others have expressed their reactions to it. I think I'll have to sleep on it.

Feral Skeleton

23/06/2011Of course, that should have been 'in ways'. Urg. :(

lyn

24/06/2011 [b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]On the QT: The element of predictability, Greg Jericho, Grog's Gamut[/i] Having Hockey tweet his “jokes” while the rest of the Twit stream was filled with people expressing horror at women in such appalling conditions that they would sing a joyful song about no longer being raped http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2011/06/on-qt-element-of-predictability.html [i]Poll Bludger comment a telling report card on Abbotts opposition! Mark Thomson, Seeking Asylum Down Under[/i] The following comment appeared this morning on the Poll Bludger blog. The author's pseudonym is Bushfire Bill. This deserves a wide readership:Australia should turn off its TVs and its radios and simply open the window. http://seekingasylumdownunder2.blogspot.com/ [i]The wind in the science culture war sails, Rooted[/i] The Australian and its political wing — Alby Schultz, Nick Minchin, Eric Abetz and Sophie Mirabella — will escalate ‘renewables skepticism’ over the coming months. Expect to see beat ups about solar panel standards, wind turbine sickness, http://blogs.crikey.com.au/rooted/2011/06/23/the-wind-in-the-science-culture-war-sails/ [i]Rogues or respectable? How climate change sceptics spread doubt and denial, Ian Enting, The Conversation[/i] the Galileo Movement, again co-opting the name of a “martyr for science” for an anti-science activity. The Galileo Movement’s founders funded the previous visit to Australia by Viscount Monckton. http://theconversation.edu.au/rogues-or-respectable-how-climate-change-sceptics-spread-doubt-and-denial-1557 [i]Prime Minister John Howard, climate change announcement Video YouTube Howard [/i] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5jtiJPlv4Y&feature=youtu.be [i]New Web Video – “Tony Abbott: In his own words” Climate Change Action[/i] http://climatechangeaction.org.au/new-web-video-tony-abbott-in-his-own-words/#.TgMVHetymeI;twitter [i]When Transport Let Me Down, Moth, New Anthropocene[/i] Tools, such as pricing carbon (something that Tony Abbott has previously agreed is a useful tool – before back flipping to appeal to more voters), force us to do what we should have started doing long ago, asking ourselves how to http://newanthropocene.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/when-transport-let-me-down/ [i]Labor Woes? Show Me The Labor Woes, Ben Pobjie, New Matilda[/i] Labor moves in mysterious ways its wonders to perform. Doesn’t that give you confidence? If it doesn’t, it’s probably because you’ve been reading The Australian. Fascist. http://newmatilda.com/2011/06/23/labor-woes-what-labor-woes [i]newspapers: decline and influence ,Gary Sauer-Thompson , Public Opinion[/i] Given this decline we can ask does this mean that they will lose their political influence? The mainstream media certainly have lost their credibility amongst the digital publics. http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2011/06/newspapers-decl.php#more [i]The Anniversary, Brian, Larvatus Prodeo[/i] Tingle says her visits to Korea, Japan and New Zealand were a great success. She has settled relationships with China, which became troubled under Rudd. Growing in confidence and competence, she has http://larvatusprodeo.net/2011/06/23/the-anniversary/ [i]Live Cattle Export: I wondered how long it would take some fool to mention religion, Clarence Girl, North Coast Voices[/i] One George Robert Christensen, the climate change ambivalent Liberal National Party MP for the Dawson electorate in Queensland (and a Mackay City councillor/journalist until the 2010 federal election), decided to sink his boot into Islam http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com/2011/06/live-cattle-export-i-wondered-how-long.html [i]How To Show Off Your Worst, Neil Cook, The Bannerman[/i] I hope these documentaries make some small impression on the right-wing bigoted couch potatoes who mirror the Darren Hassan’s, Rod Schneider’s and Raquel Moore’s in our society, but I fear such http://www.waddayano.org/blog/2011/06/how_to_show_off_your_worst.php#more [i]Hey, it’s their own fault for being born into poverty overseas, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison[/i] To watch what these refugees are enduring and demand they wait a century or so for a spot in this mythical “queue”, is to be a fairly miserable sort of human being. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/06/23/hey-its-their-own-fault-for-being-born-into-poverty/#more-10677 [i]"Dumping" If it was up to me I'd let the stuff in, Peter Martin[/i] It called this the "political economy" argument for keeping our anti-dumping rules, but recommended they be relaxed by the inclusion of a public interest test and any penalties be time limited. http://www.petermartin.com.au/ [i]NBN BUZZ: Deal done, Alexander Liddington - Cox, Technology Spectator[/i] NBN Buzz is a weekly wrap up of everthing that's going on with Australia's biggest ever infrastructure project. For previous editions got to our NBN Buzz page. http://technologyspectator.com.au/nbn-buzz/nbn-buzz-deal-done [i]Historic Broadband Deal, Paul Budde, BuddeBlog[/i] This is a major step forward, and it is not only capturing national attention. The international ICT focus is now well and truly on Australia, with the OECD receiving a first-hand update from Minister Conroy next week in Paris. http://www.buddeblog.com.au/frompaulsdesk/historic-broadband-deal/ [i]Coalition must adjust to life with fibre, Bernard Keane Crikey[/i] the opposition’s dilemma on the NBN worsens. And the dilemma was fully on display in Malcolm Turnbull’s interview with the ABC’s Naomi Woodley this morning. Having been charged with demolishing the NBN by his leader http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/06/23/telstra-optus-mean-the-coalition-must-adjust-to-life-with-fibre/ [i]Gillard’s ‘rip it out’ claims ludicrous, says Turnbull, Renai LeMay, The Delimeter[/i] Turnbull also slammed the Government’s industry restructuring strategy in general, stating the Telstra/NBN deal was “the slowest and most expensive way” of achieving structural separation of Telstra. http://delimiter.com.au/2011/06/23/gillards-rip-it-out-claims-ludicrous-says-turnbull/ [b]Newspapers[/b] [i]Carbon tax model shows low toll on top 100 , Lenore Taylor, SMH[/i] Mr Windsor, who will leave for a European fact-finding trip on carbon pricing when Parliament rises in July, said he had asked for a briefing from the Productivity Commission to explain its figures on the costs of both the solar industry and biofuels. http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/carbon-tax-model-shows-low-toll-on-top-100-20110622-1gfju.html

Ad astra reply

24/06/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

lyn

24/06/2011Good Morning Ad I sure don't like giving poor old Dennis any credence but this is good news. Ad I will put up a few excerpts for you, then you won't need to click on the page if you don't want too: [i]Liberal vice-presidents accused of treachery , The Australian[/i] [quote]The Australian understands neither Mr Stockdale nor his challenger, Howard government minister Peter Reith, has a clear majority of delegates from any of the eight divisions of the party, other than the ACT, which appears firmly behind the incumbent.[/quote] [quote]It is understood Mr Reith's candidacy has the support of [b]Tony Abbott [/b]and former prime minister [b]John Howard[/b], but Mr Stockdale still has some heavy hitters in his corner. [b]Nick Minchin[/b], a declared supporter of Mr Stockdale, has claimed Labor and the unions are excited at the prospect of Mr Reith becoming party president I know from talking to Labor senators the ALP is salivating at the prospect of Peter Reith becoming federal president It would help them enormously in their efforts to put industrial relations back at the top of the political agenda, and make sure the next election is a rerun of the anti-Work Choices campaign of 2007."[/quote] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/liberal-vice-presidents-accused-of-treachery/story-fn59niix-1226080933708 Cheers :):):):):):):)

Ad astra reply

24/06/2011Hi Lyn Thank you for the link to the story in [i]The Oz[/i] which shows that naked ambition, in this case from Peter Reith and his supporters, has overridden the contemporary priority of the Coalition to hammer Labor on its anniversary. Let’s hope that if the election of the next Liberal President is as messy as it promises to be it will get lots of media attention; it’s time that the media focused on the Coalition, instead of propping up its disingenuous behaviour. We’re off soon to Melbourne. I will be back later today.

macca

24/06/2011In 2001 I was working around the Gibb River Rd in the Kimberley region. I worked alongside one of the most honourable men I have ever met. He was an elder of the country and was born on the station where we were working and living. In short, the country was his homelands. He operated heavy machinery. A challenging job, not without ample opportunity to harm to oneself. He never wore boots. He never wore thongs. The concept of footwear was alien to him. Even after being chided by the bosses, presented with top of the range workboots and socks to match. He would, dutifully, carry his boots and socks to his machine, throw in the tucker box, tie his swag on the back. He would then disappear for week cutting roads out in the back blocks. The new boots and socks sitting, rather despondently, on the seat next to him. The reason he never wore footware? He couldn't feel his land through boots or thongs. He couldn't tell if the land was crook or if he was getting close to " sick country". He could feel the vibrancy of the land, his land, through his feet. I believed him then.Today, even more so. I think there would be many,many farmers, who, deep in their hearts, feel the same way. The land is crook. To those who are undecided in this climate change debate and have the courage of an open mind I would ask this; Find a patch of bush, relax your mind, take off your shoes and feel your country. nb; I would dearly love to name the man above. A man honour deserves it. But he has passed and to do so would be disrespectful. That is the way he would wish it.

Feral Skeleton

24/06/2011An interesting bit of interactive fun from Malcolm Farr: http://www.news.com.au/national/one-year-on-see-inside-labors-networks-of-power/story-e6frfkw9-1226081106661

TalkTurkey

24/06/2011FS Malcolm Farr is a bit useful after all! That's not a bad little thumbnail of the Cabinet, and you can PRINT the photo page if you want. The frontline squad of 28 players for the Guvnors (the Reds) in the AFL (Australian Federal Legislature). Gee I'd like to see Farr's depiction and descriptions re the Coalons' attempt at an equivalent team. :P

TalkTurkey

24/06/2011Michael Z Welcome to TPS, and I have to tell you I am regretfully very much in agreement with your pov. Too many people, too greedy, Governments too stupid to see the writing on the wall, religions encouraging hatred and overbreeding, outrageous inequities and ancient rivalries . . . And even Steven Hawking, Yes! Years ago I wrote a huge book of verse called NEW WORLDS! In it the spirit of Albert Einstein conducts a virtual shipload of students around the solar system, powered by Mind Flip, through the sun and one by one to the outermost planets, looking for alternative places for our species to spawn. Nowhere can Life exist - except the sole 'ever-new' world we will ever have. Which is not looking all that new now. :'( But please keep coming to TPS, your style is fresh and robust and your warning voice clear.

Jason

24/06/2011"Are you sick of hearing about "the anniversary"? I am. If I never hear or read another word about Kevin Rudd's "assassination", his "knifing", or Julia Gillard's "palace coup", the many that have already washed over me will be quite sufficient. " http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2770196.html

Feral Skeleton

24/06/2011Careful, Jason, if you say that you are sick of hearing about 'Assassination Day'(or 'Liberation Day' as the more level-headed would style it), you'll wake up the troll and he'll come out from under the bridge and tell you that you are just spouting sour grapes because Tony Abbott has got Labor on the run, blah, blah, yada, yada, predictable, trite and boring nonsense... ;-)

TalkTurkey

24/06/2011The Troll has only seen the Little Nanny Goat Gruff so far. *J*U*L*I*A* will be a Bigger Nanny Goat Gruff from July 4. Come another year she'll be a Big Nanny Goat Gruff! And she's still got a year after that to get to be a HUGE Nanny Goat Gruff! And she'll be leading the whole flock! Who's afraid of the Big Bad Troll? Yudda yudda yudda yudda YAHHHHH! That first year just finished has been her baptism of fire -(because she scorns the wet kind, Bravo!)- and it will be upwards and onwards from here. Bet you-all the next polls are significantly up. And climbing.

Jason

24/06/2011FS, If the "troll" wakes up! he can look at exhibit "A" for "political assassination" John Paul Newman (8 December 1946 – 5 September 1994) was a member of the New South Wales state parliament and Member for the seat of Cabramatta. He was the first elected politician to be assassinated in Australia.[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Newman_(Australian_politician)

2353

24/06/2011Like Jason I'm fed up with the alleged anniversary. Why aren't we also "celebrating" the anniversary of Abbott undermining Turnbull - which certainly hasn't advanced the Liberal Party's cause in Australia one iota? Talk about double standards. P.S. I'd love to discuss this one with our resident troll :)

lyn

24/06/2011Hi Jason The Media only made up the Anniversary story, just like the make up the Honeymoon, so they can "Build it up and knock it down". What is it "March them up the top of the Hill and march them down again". Do you wonder what I would like to do with their Anniversary story' Doesn't it make you sick, making up news again. What annoys me how much coverage did the NBN get. Yesterday was historic, fantastic for our country, signing up telstra. Remember Helen Coonan 5 years ago, tramping around the paddocks with her hard hat on, inspecting, no I should say kicking copper wire. Well they couldn't break Telstra's stronghold, her negotiating skills didn't stall they froze over. Howard and his three amigos, what! Mr Turnbull talks about the NBN being a Government Monopoly, those guys held the country to ransom for years and years. Cheers :):):):):)

Michael

24/06/2011Today's Bad Abbott Failing to pull Joe Hockey into line with his cardboard cut-out of Kevin Rudd stunts and tweets well into the evening yesterday. It's sad enough that Shouldabeen comprehensively fails to convincingly present as an alternative Prime Minister, but to let his Shadow Treasurer and main contender to take over the leadership make a complete ass of himself all day... Oh. Instalment #2: letting (indeed paying for... well, taxpayers are, but it's Abbott's travel allowance being re-allocated to Scott Morrison) letting said Morrison scoot off to Malaysia where he can achieve nothing but embarrass himself, the Coalition, and in the final analysis, Australia. All in the attempt to embarrass the current government. Have either of these two 'professional and pragmatic politicians' thought through what dragging another nation and its leaders into Australian-domestic political point-scoring actually says about them? Using Malaysia and its government as 'scenery' and 'extras' in an exaggerated exercise that will play for mere minutes in the Australian media, but live long in the memory of Malaysian officials and politicians, who will know that they have been used as little more than puppets in a Coalition vaudeville act.

Patricia WA

24/06/2011A bit late with this, but I've recanted on that 'liking for Nick Minchin' comment. And it is on topic! [b]Senator Minchin, Did I Hear You Right?[/b] Listening to Senator Nick Minchin, Long time Liberal party linchpin, Giving his valedictory, Much I heard seemed contradictory. I couldn’t tell as I heard him speak If what he said was tongue in cheek. I’d liked this man of style and couth And really wanted to hear his truth. Some things he needed off his chest We had already heard confessed, Like not resisting the Iraq war, Not opposing Howard’s Work Choices law, These again he mentioned with regret. What else remained, not voiced as yet? Then came what seemed a heartfelt plea For climate sceptics, such as he! He hated being branded as [i]Denier![/i], Seen as a [i]veritable pariah,[/i] For declaring war on bigotry And global warming zealotry. The Greens, demanding a solution To their problems with air pollution, Had got the voters in a stew About a harmless thing like CO2! I felt he almost empathized, When he talked of being [i]‘quite surprised, Disappointed by (carbon’s) loneliness, isolation and indeed (its) demonization!’[/i] Even his party caught the madness! Here, I thought, he might talk of sadness. Does he regret achieving [i]Turnbull’s demise,[/i] As mainstream media might surmise? No. He’s still with Abbott, royalist, Covert climate change denialist, Whose overweening pride and vanity Show symptoms of insanity. [i]'The current Prime Minister,'[/i] their, ‘Liar!’ Whom both worked hard to make [i]pariah,[/i] He mentioned briefly, not as [i]'misunderstood'[/i] Or seen by others as doing good. So was he trying to be funny? Was there intended any irony In advice to colleagues that they should, [i]‘Do Unto others what you would have them do to you?’ [/i]

Jason

24/06/2011HI Lyn, Perhaps it's only me, but I'm still yet to work out why journalism is a degree subject that you have to uni for! I think most of "our" press gallery would be lucky to snare a job with the "national enquirer" writing stories about Elvis sightings. To think we "tradies" were once considered poorly educated!

lyn

24/06/2011Hi Jason Not anymore Jason you guys are the backbone of our Country. You would run rings around them Jason, their just making headlines out of plain old gossip. I would love to see you interview anyone of them and you would know the answers to your own questions. I would guarantee that. David Speers just tweeted awhile ago "he is running the Labor Coup at 6pm tonight on Sky News". I tweeted back "What Coup" This is what I think Coup means: violent change of Government Illegal change of Government sensational act Vigorous attack Glad I cancelled Austar, just remembered why, it was because of David Spears and Sky News. Cheers :):):):):)

Feral Skeleton

24/06/2011lyn, Especially as Austar has just been bought by Foxtel, another of Mr Murdoch's products. Whilst I am at it I must just mention that in America Mr Murdoch's latest project is to supply schoolchildren with News Corp e-textbooks via his Publishing enterprise, Harper Collins. The thought of him and his conservatively-oriented e-textbooks attempting to control the minds of America's children, and, if we get a Conservative government here, our children's minds(because he would lean on Tony Abbott to allow him and his poisonous attitudes via his textbooks into our schools too), fills me with dread and revulsion by turns.

Feral Skeleton

24/06/2011A sober Annabel Crabb piece: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/24/3252891.htm

Jason

24/06/2011FS, Annabel has been kidnapped or she has a ghost writer!

lyn

24/06/2011Hi Feral Thankyou for the link to the ABC's Annabel. I complained about Spears, but that Lyndal Curtis, honestly I can't be held responsible for what I think. I just turned on ABC 24 Capital Hill, yes you guessed "The Anniversary" what chance have we got. Well! Annabel, yes she sounds genuine for awhile then blows it all in the last paragraph. [quote]But as ye sow, so shall ye reap. And one of the reasons that Julia Gillard cannot escape the pestilence of intrigue and instability that envelopes her is the brute truth of what she and her colleagues did one year ago.[/quote] I enjoyed this paragraph:- [quote]In the 43rd parliament so far, [b]151 bills have been passed. Not a single bill has been rejected.[/b] The Prime Minister's problem, one year into it, is not so much that she faces a disobliging parliament. It's that Australian political debate has almost entirely disengaged from the two chambers [/quote] Cheers :):):)

lyn

24/06/2011Hi Patricia I didn't see you up there hiding before. Thankyou for your Pome, you are a shining light on our TPS page. Well done [quote]So was he trying to be funny? Was there intended any irony In advice to colleagues that they should, ‘Do Unto others what you would have them do to you?’ [/quote] Phony Tony sounds ok, Phony Nick well it's true. Cheers :):):)

Patricia WA

24/06/2011Thanks, lyn! Your encouragement inspires me to improve! Looking at those few lines there I can see a better way to get that punch line in. If he wasn’t trying to be funny Why do I see irony In his last advice to colleagues to [i]‘Do unto others what you would have them do to you?’[/i]

Jason

24/06/2011Lyn, lucky you have already got rid of "Austar" otherwise this might have done it for you! theburgerman | 1 minute ago Political tragics - if you'd like to relive Sky News' coverage of #spillard on 23/24 June, 2010 you can see it now on A-PAC, ch 648. #auspol

Michael

24/06/2011Bad Abbott #2 http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/beef-farmers-on-suicide-watch-abbott-20110624-1giud.html Same old, well, bullshit. Learned at the feet of the 'master', John Howard, whose formula used to be "Many people say", before he'd trot out whatever unverifiable dog-whistling tosh he had in mind. In the article above, Tiny A is quoted concerning the temporary suspension of live cattle exports to Indonesia: "Thousands of small business operators fear for their financial survival," Mr Abbott said. "A number of station operators are said to be on suicide watch." Note the second sentence. "a number"? What number, and where? And then, "said to be on suicide watch". "Said to be". By who? Are professionals 'watching them' ('suicide watch' is a term with specific meaning). Where are they being watched? At health institutions? Across the kitchen table? Walking out into the back paddock for a quiet think? Unverifiable bullshit designed to callously push emotional buttons without the slightest real concern for cattle breeders, the general public, or anyone in between. Just unsustainable comment spewed out to heat up an issue that serious, sensible, and truly concerned people both here and in Indonesia, are working to resolve. You know, the sort of thing real political leaders are meant to initiate, oversee, and deliver. The sort of thing real Opposition leaders are meant to support in an industry's interest, in the nation's interest, and to increase understanding of an issue amongst Australian citizens. A cattledog might prick up his ears at this latest Shouldabeen foray - the rest of us must treat it with the contempt his rank opportunism deserves.

macca

24/06/2011About all of this anniversary nonsense. Jackals and scavengers can only feed off the carcass so many times before it starts to poison them. Bolt, The Insider clique and all the other second raters will have their final vindictive, shallow and confected outrage this weekend. Then it'll be over. Not having the courage to do it themselves the jackals and the scavengers will move on to another, fresher kill. If they can find one. The bones of this carcass will dissolve into the sand of a dry watercourse. Eventually washed away by the change of season.

Jason

24/06/2011In case anyone might be remotely interested in these good for nothing "gatherers of News" with their special insight and their objective analysis of the political week! Here is the TV line up. Who am I kidding? this weekends rumour mongers! Sunday morning TV - 26 June #auspol Your guide to this Sunday morning's political and business interviewsFull program listing available at: http://sundaymorningtv.posterous.com/ 8:30am Sky News 601 - Australian Agenda On Sky News Australian Agenda this week ... awaiting confirmation of program line up ... Joining host Peter Van Onselen on the Panel, The Australian's Paul Kelly, and ... 8:38am Ch7 - Weekend Sunrise - The Riley Diary Political editor Mark Riley takes viewers on an excursion to Boganville, as some sing Happy Anniversary Baby, and looks at the life of the StuntMan. Meet The Press has moved to a 10.30am time slot, unless you're in Canberra and surrounds when it's 4pm. 8:40am Ch9 - Today on Sunday - The Laurie Oakes Interview The weekly Laurie Oakes interview is no more. We'll let you know when Laurie is next expected to return to your Sunday morning screen. 9:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 - Insiders On Insiders this Sunday: Barrie Cassidy interviews the Greens leader, Senator Bob Brown. On the panel: Karen Middleton from SBS, The Australian’s Chris Kenny and Phil Coorey from The Sydney Morning Herald. And Mike Bowers talks pictures with David Pope from The Canberra Times. 10:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 @ 5.30pm - Inside Business This week on Inside Business Telstra CEO David Thodey talks about the $11bn NBN agreement. And Citi Chief Economist Willem Buiter talks about the European debt situation and the US and Australian outlook. As well, the regular update of the latest news from the markets and Alan Kohler’s incisive commentary. 10.00am Ch10 everywhere but Canberra at 4.30pm - The Bolt Report - Check local program guides for encore performance timings later in the day This week on The Bolt Report ... awaiting confirmation of program line up ... 10.30am Ch10 everywhere but Canberra at 4.00pm - Meet the Press - Check local program guides for encore performance timings later in the day Paul Bongiorno is joined on the Panel by Jessic Irvine of The Sydney Morning Herald and Malcolm Farr of News.com.au. Together they interview Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

lyn

24/06/2011Hi Jason Would have finished me for sure. It's a wonder they don't present a documentary that means a true story, no means scientific doesn't it, of Joe Hockey running around Canberra with Cardboard cutouts of Kevin Rudd. The ABC thinks Hockey's stupidity is worth reporting and writing about: Hockey takes 'Rudd' on Canberra tour, Jeremy Thompson, ABC Mr Hockey then posted a series of photographs of the former prime minister in various locations. First it was in Mr Hockey's office, proudly wearing a "Hockey" baseball cap. Then the effigy somehow made its way to the Chinese and Indonesian embassies, to the Red Hill lookout, back to parliament, more embassies, and finally to the Lodge. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/24/3252608.htm?section=justin See what Michael just posted in Bad Abbott report thankyou Michael, unbelievable, "suicide watch" what! [quote]"Said to be". By who? Are professionals 'watching them' ('suicide watch' is a term with specific meaning). Where are they being watched? At health institutions? Across the kitchen table? Walking out into the back paddock for a quiet think?[/quote] Cheers

Feral Skeleton

24/06/2011Michael, What I find even more reprehensible is the fact that the supposedly less tabloid Fairfax newspaper group are seeing fit to print Abbott's BS verbatim. Print it at all even. Let alone put it under the scrutiny it warrants. I know he used to be a journalist and can spew out these lines till the cows come home, to use a cattleish metaphor, but do supposed 'journals of record' have to let everything he says go unchallenged? Are they unable to ask the most basic questions of him? I mean, we all know he goes to water and into a stupefied state when challenged ever so slightly. So why don't they do it more often?

Ad astra reply

24/06/2011Folks It has been interesting to read your comments and visit the links. There are some insightful pieces in the MSM which point to a dawning realization that the ‘assassiniversary’ has been a fizzer. Even the acerbic and grossly disrespectful interview on AM by Sabra Lane brought forth no joy for Sabra, but instead perhaps the most telling remark from PM Gillard today: [i]But can I certainly say this; anybody who thinks that I am going to fold because it is a bit tough out there has got me wrong, absolutely wrong and we are doing these tough reforms because they are right for the country's future.[/i] Everyone should hear this and get used to it. Our PM is one tough cookie who will put the Sabra Lanes of this world as well as the Tony Abbotts in their place, and just get on with the job. If you have the stomach for it, Sabra Lane’s interview is here: http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2011/s3252208.htm The media’s attempt to up-end today her have failed miserably, and I suspect her unwillingness to be intimidated by media or Opposition will gain her many brownie points. Today may well be the turning point in her electoral fortunes

Ad astra reply

24/06/2011Folks I have just posted another lovely piece of satire by Acerbic Conehead: [i]Extreme Makeover Takeover[/i] http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2011/06/24/Extreme-Makeover-Takeover.aspx

Patricia WA

24/06/2011Re your Bad Abbott report above, I wonder what the MLA are doing about all that alarm and despondency? It's good to know that some elements in the meat trade have real concern for animal welfare. MICA, the Meat Industries Council of Australia, have made it clear that [quote]The proposed legislation announced by Mr Wilkie and Senator Xenophon for an immediate ban on all live exports to Indonesia until the animal welfare issues are addressed is supported by AMIC.[/quote][quote]http://www.amic.org.au/content_common/pg-press-release-live-exports-to-indonesia.seo[/quote]

lyn

26/06/2011 [b]TODAY'S LINKS [/b] [i]Some facts about Parliamentary Democracy, Bill, Billablog[/i] the Gillard government in 2011 has as much mandate for a carbon tax as the Howard government of 2004-2007 ever had for WorkChoices. If anything, they have more http://the-billablog.blogspot.com/2011/06/some-facts-about-parliamentary.html [i]You can’t vote for everything, Crispin Hull, [/i] Abbott’s plebiscite also raises the questions of mandate. It is not in the national interest for a government to pursue only those policies it announced at an election and never to change its mind. Circumstances change and good governments need to respond. http://www.crispinhull.com.au/2011/06/25/you-cant-vote-for-everything/ [i]On The Drum - Political Press Release Dressed Up as Opinion , Steve Szetey,The Fezzant Creek Rambler.[/i] you cannot read a media site without falling over at least a dozen articles scathing in their criticism of the Gillard Government with only a small handful of articles actually mentioning, if not discussing, some of their accomplishments. http://fezzantcreakrambler.blogspot.com/2011/06/drum-political-press-released-dressed.html [i]NBN – Subscriber Agreement, Michael Wyres.[/i] This is the last-mile monopoly that Telstra has enjoyed since the Postmaster General's Department rolled out the CAN in the 1950′s. The PMG eventually became Telecom Australia, and then of course Telstra. http://michaelwyres.com/2011/06/nbn-subscriber-agreement/ [i]Anatomy of Power, Roger Wegener.[/i] Tony is still their leader and for all his stunts he is seriously on the nose with large sections of our population. Despite the ABC's attempt to spin it - the #abbottin3 Twitter hashtag demonstrates that large numbers of thinking Australians don't want him anywhere near the levers. http://roger-wegener.blogspot.com/2011/06/anatomy-of-power.html [i]The Doppler Effect, Ash, Ash's Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] the day of ’the knifing’ occurred, the press played the game for the coalition and every day in every way, the noise got louder and louder and louder. The gimmicks got bigger. The frequency between national polls reduced and so on. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/06/25/the-doppler-effect/ [i]Advertise your own irrelevance, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless[/i] Having spent all that time sucking up to government to regulate in favour of media organisations, we at mainstream media now find ourselves in a Faustian bargain with government. Teetering on the precipice http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/2011/06/advertise-your-own-irrelevance.html [i]Letter from a refugee: ‘This system broke my heart’, Green Left[/i] Finally, I left Malaysia and took the risky journey by boat to Australia. Unexpectedly, I was detained for18 months, both here in Darwin’s Northern Immigration Detention Facility and on Christmas Island. http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/48005 [i]Part I – Journey of an asylum seeker: Reza flees Iran,Vince, Champions of Change[/i] After being on the run for 3 months since fleeing Iran, Reza finally boarded his last flight to Australia. When he arrived at Melbourne airport he immediately sought out a customs official and, in broken English, told him “I am an asylum seeker and I need protection. http://www.championsofchange.org.au/?p=645 [i]Daffodils and “Go back where you come from”., Gerard Oosterman,Window Dresser's Arms, Pig @ Whistle[/i] Did anyone not feel the humaneness and warmth of those refugees in Kuala Lumpur, especially the kid’s eagerness to go and learn at schools? http://pigsarms.com.au/2011/06/23/daffodils-and-go-back-where-you-come-from/ [i]How did we get into this?, Don Aitkin, Climate Etc.[/i] No matter that climate affects us all locally, the outcome has been to find the villainy in our universal useof fossil fuels, leading to increases in temperature, leading to disaster scenarios. The villain is ourselves, http://judithcurry.com/2011/06/24/how-did-we-get-into-this/#more-3764 [i]Farmers getting older as their acreages decline, Rooted[/i] Nationally, almost half (48%) of all agricultural businesses in Australia were also engaged in cropping activities. Some 17% of agriculture businesses were engaged in horticulture. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/rooted/2011/06/24/farmers-getting-older-as-their-acreages-decline/#more-2604 [i]Mentioning the war, David Horton, The Watermelon Blog[/i] Those nasty “warmists” deliberately use the name “denier” to discredit the tens of thousands of scientists and their friends who are skeptical about global warming, so stop it. http://davidhortonsblog.com/2011/06/25/mentioning-the-war/ [i]How Newsrooms Can Win Back Their Reputations, Scott Rosenberg, Mediashift[/i] A piece without links is like a story without the names of its sources. Every link tells a reader,"I did my research. And you can double-check me." http://www.pbs.org/idealab/2011/06/how-newsrooms-can-win-back-their-reputations174.html [b]Newspapers[/b] [i]Stop complaining, our economy's in fine form , George Megalogenis, The Australian[/i] THE most futile conversation in Australian politics involves telling people that living standards are rising. The moment a prime minister makes such a claim, as John Howard did in 2007, http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/stop-complaining-our-economys-in-fine-form/story-e6frg6zo-1226081585121 [i]Abbott offers tax cuts to rally troops , Peter Veness, SMH[/i] Just how Mr Stockdale will work with four vice-presidents who openly opposed his re-election remains to be seen. http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/abbott-offers-tax-cuts-to-rally-troops-20110625-1gk93.html [i]Global cooling anyone? , Nigel Tapper, National Times [/i] The longer-term effects of all this ash and dust could be of wider environmental concern than, say, a few hundred thousand stranded passengers, as difficult as it is for those people. http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/global-cooling-anyone-20110616-1g4st.html

justmeint

27/06/2011Can't Trust Julia... she has said 100% of money raised by her Carbon Tax will be used to help Australia: We as a nation are one of highest taxed in the world – but wait – there is more to come! The Australian Government has committed us to paying a ten percent additional levy /tithe to the United Nations. This is a self serving un-elected unofficial quasi Governmental Body, who have written their own charter and draw their finances from the nations around the world who have ‘signed on’. Now Australia is about to collect another new tax, of which 10% has been formally promised to the United Nations Green Fund. http://justmeint.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/you-are-to-be-commended-pat-yourself-on-the-back/
What does two plus 1 equal?