Are political labels useless?

Learned dissertations on politics use classical terminology to identify particular political positions. Terms like ‘conservative’, ‘liberal’, small ‘l’ liberal, ‘economic liberalism’, ‘economic conservatism’, ‘political liberalism’, ‘social liberalism’, ‘social conservatism’, ‘socialism’, social democracy’, ‘liberal democracy’, or more colloquially, ‘wets’ and ‘dries’ are but some of the terms that are used to describe people’s positions and attitudes, and to point to their preferred policies.

There has been talk since the 2010 election about the orientation of the main political parties. Labor, long seen as centre-left, is now seen by the Coalition as lurching violently to the left after its post-election ‘alliance’ with the Greens, who are portrayed as extreme left. But on refugee policy it is seen as moving to the right. There is also talk in Coalition circles about whether it has lurched too far to the conservative right. Will Hodgman, Liberal leader in Tasmania certainly thinks so, as does Malcolm Fraser.

But how much do these labels help us in understanding what individual politicians think and feel, what parties believe, what they ‘stand for’? In my view not much, serving as they do to confuse more often than clarify.

It was as I read Tony Abbott’s book Battlelines that the confusion such labels evoke became starkly apparent. In an attempt to describe what the Liberal Party was and stood for, he went back to R G Menzies’ 1985 assertion: “What the Liberal Party needed to do...was to rededicate itself to ‘patriotism...the family...the small unit in agriculture, industry and commerce...political obligation...intellectual rigour’.” After the party’s loss to Gough Whitlam, Menzies lamented that "the party of everything" had become "the party of nothing". This lament highlights the dilemma defeated parties face, and points to the need for introspection, refining of principles, review of policies and redefining the party’s very essence. Values and direction have to be rediscovered and renewed.

Clearly Abbott was soul searching when he wrote his book. He cautions that “Romanticizing the achievements of the previous government [the Howard Government] and demanding that the electorate repent of its mistake is a recipe for a very long stint in opposition.” Ironically, that stands in stark contrast to Abbott’s actual behaviour since the 2007 election when he has repeatedly lamented the rejection of ‘such a good government’ by a ‘sleep-walking electorate’. He goes on to quote George Brandis as saying the party had ‘moved too far to the right’, and ‘should return to the small ‘l’ liberal tradition’ of Robert Menzies or Alfred Deakin. I wonder what Abbott thinks after the recent election?

Highlighting the difficulty in articulating the principles and the philosophies that party members have in common, Abbott bemoans the fact that such an exercise often evokes a row and a flurry of motherhood statements. He concedes political liberalism cannot be reduced to a simple prescription and that John Stuart Mill, the great philosopher of liberalism, had different political positions at different times.

Menzies created the term ‘Liberal’ to mean a ‘progressive party, willing to make experiments, in no sense reactionary, but believing in the individual, his rights and his enterprise’. He stressed the ‘creative genius of the individual’ but that the individual needed to be ‘assisted and sometimes controlled by the government in the general social interest’. He believed in and encouraged ‘free private enterprise’ but not ‘irresponsible enterprise’. He spoke of the ‘real freedoms to worship, to think, to speak, to choose, to be ambitious, to acquire skill, to seek reward...for these are of the essence, of the nature of man’.

After thirty pages in which Abbott valiantly attempts to explain conservative values, he goes onto list descriptive terms additional to those mentioned at the beginning of this piece: ‘left wing’, ‘right wing’, ‘interventionist’, ‘deregulatory’, ‘capitalist’, ‘socialist’, ‘centralist’ and ‘federalist’, but emphasises that these terms “...don’t matter much compared with whether they might plausibly solve a problem in ways that would be in the national interest”, and that “the ‘ideological’ tag...rarely strikes a chord with voters”. I agree with Abbott.

Abbott rebuts Robert Manne’s contention that the Coalition’s policies were the conscious application of neo-liberal or neo-conservative ideology to economic and national-security problems. Abbott insists that: “not a single Howard cabinet member ever had any ‘neo-ism’ in mind when actually making a decision”.

For his part, Kevin Rudd did not seek to follow the ideological path, but rather took the pragmatic approach to issues, much as has the Liberal Party as described by Abbott. Julia Gillard is believed by many to be more ideologically driven, but has yet to reveal how she formulates her approach to political matters. The Australian Greens is said to be the most ideologically driven party.

This piece argues that the traditional ideological terms so often used are of little help to voters trying to understand the orientation and political positions of the politicians that they are required to select for office. Different people often attach very different meanings to the same term. The 2010 election illustrated how poorly the electorate grasped the essential differences in ideology, policy and approach of the major parties. Many insisted that the campaign was ‘policy-free’.

This piece contends that voters, expecting to know what candidates stand for, deserve to have better ways of assessing them than simply the name of their party or the superficial ideological tags so often attached to that party. Now is the time to reflect on how we can do it better when next we go to the polls.

Why not describe political orientations and positions with brief descriptors, as did Menzies – a ‘What I believe in’ manifesto?

Here’s a first attempt to create such a conceptual checklist. It is of necessity incomplete, as a complete list would be as encyclopedic as the issues facing political parties. You are invited to add items that you would like to see on a checklist that you would wish candidates in your electorate to answer before you cast your vote. I will add them in seriatim.

The first set is somewhat ‘motherhood’ in nature, such that one would expect most politicians to answer in the affirmative. The second list is more testing, requiring as it does the candidate to select from countervailing alternatives. Imagine a check box associated with each choice. If you find the lists tedious, just skim them to get the idea presented here.

I believe in:

Values and beliefs

Freedom for all to worship, to think, to express views

Freedom of choice of religion, work, political affiliation and associates

Freedom from oppression

Equity, equality of opportunity and fairness for all

Love of country and patriotism

Respect for the original inhabitants of this country

Respect for our ancestors and the origins of our nation

Recognition of, and respect for the sovereign and her representatives

Respect for Australian military traditions and feats in times of conflict

Preservation of traditional Australian values: mate-ship, a fair go, mutual respect 

Respect for the rule of law, the nation’s legal system and justice for all

Respect for the nation’s political system, the democratic process and the rights and responsibilities of elected governments 

Opportunities for all to engage freely in political discourse

Preparedness to innovate and experiment in public policy

Care for the natural environment

Family values

The family as the basic unit of society

An emphasis on family values and family well-being

Acceptance of the several variants of ‘family’: traditional two parent, single parent, gay and lesbian relationships
Fostering family saving, self-sufficiency, self reliance and prudence in the use of resources

Freedoms and opportunities

Freedom to acquire knowledge, skills, a satisfying occupation and appropriate rewards, and to be ambitious

Educational opportunities for all to the extent of their capacity

Freedom to be enterprising and innovative in business

Creating opportunities for advancement

Small business as a crucial element of commercial and industrial endeavour

Small agricultural endeavour

A fair and equitable industrial relations system
Health and social support

Equitable, accessible, affordable, comprehensive and dignified health care from birth through old age at a cost the individual and society can afford

Accessible and affordable facilities for the prevention of illness and management of physical, mental and social illness

Support for the disabled and their carers appropriate to their needs 

Respect for life and how it ends

Social support for those unable sufficiently to support themselves

Support for those unable to find work

Support for the homeless, and public housing for them
Proper living and employment conditions for indigenous people
Health care for indigenous people that closes the health gap
Training programmes for those seeking employment

Occupational health and safety arrangements that protects all workers

Economy, trade, markets, regulation and resources

An open economy that engages in global markets and free trade
Freedom for individuals and businesses to engage in free enterprise
Tax systems that encourage commercial activity, but reap fair returns from productive industries
A sound, well-regulated and capitalized commercial banking system that supports commerce and industry
A central Reserve Bank that keeps inflation under control with interest rate adjustments
A system of support for industries that become threatened, especially the farm sector during times of drought, flood and tempest
Encouragement for manufacturing within the bounds of economic commonsense
Government support for all forms of productive economic activity
Improving productivity, sustainable growth and participation in the workforce
Fast broadband that enables the most efficient conduct of commerce, education, health and communications
Population growth that is consistent with sustainability and economic growth
Prudent use of resources consistent with environmental sustainability
Action on climate change that curtails its adverse effects

National security

Protection of the territorial integrity of Australia

A strong defence capability

Willingness to provide for regional security

Willingness to contribute to global security



The above are mostly motherhood statements to which I expect most politicians would answer positively.

A more revealing test would be a set of largely mutually exclusive alternative propositions from which politicians could select. Again, imagine a check box with each item.

I believe in the selected option:

The Australian way of life

The existing way of life should be maintained as it has served us well

We should attempt to continually improve our way of life

A traditional family of a married man and wife with children is the preferred mode of family life

Other family arrangements (childless couples, single parents, surrogate parents, homosexual couples) should be encouraged

Same sex marriage should be permitted

Choice of contraception is a right for all sexually active people

Women have the right to decide on the continuance of a pregnancy

Abortion should be outlawed

Late term abortion should be outlawed
Euthanasia should be available with suitable safeguards

Education

Education is the lifeblood of the nation

All who are capable are entitled to as much education as would benefit them

Education should be reserved for those capable of benefiting from it

Education should be free throughout

Education should be free through secondary education but tertiary education should be paid for by the consumer

Scholarships should be readily available to talented people

The HECS scheme is sound and should be retained

The HECS scheme is punitive and should be abolished

Private schools should not receive government subsidies

Private schools are entitled to subsidies as parents who pay taxes are entitled to some benefit

Health and welfare

Governments have an obligation to prove excellence in health care at minimal cost

Consumers of health care should pay an equitable amount for care

Individuals are obliged to take care of their health and avoid overburdening the health care system

Governments have the right to penalize those who disregard their health

Higher excise should be levied on tobacco, alcohol and junk food

More emphasis should be given to community care to take the pressure off hospitals

More emphasis should be given to aged and palliative care facilities
More emphasis should be given to mental health care, especially for the young

Hospital beds should be reduced and more community and aged beds built

More hospital beds are needed to relieve emergency department congestion

Markets, regulation and international trade

Unfettered free markets with minimal government regulation or control are preferred

Free markets but with firm government regulation are desirable

Free markets strongly controlled by government regulation are essential

Globalization, global markets and free trade are now the norm

A neo-liberal approach to markets is best

A Hayekian approach to markets is best

A Keynesian approach to markets is best

Tariff protection is needed to protect local industry

Government support is essential for local manufacturing
Companies mining our irreplaceable minerals should pay a fairer share of their profits in tax
Mining companies are already paying enough tax
Higher taxes on mining would cripple the industry and send it offshore
Fast broadband is essential for business, education and health care
The broadband we have is satisfactory and does not need vastly higher speeds

GFC, stimulus, debt and deficit, interest rates

The Government should not have instituted a stimulus programme during the GFC

The incurring of the debt resulting from the stimulus programme is fully justified

It is more important to avoid debt than it is to avoid recession and unemployment

Once the recession was receding all stimulus should have been stopped

The stimulus should be continued until obligations have been met 

The stimulus should be continued until the threat of recession is over

Interest rate rises are a direct result of the Government stimulus

Interest rate rises are a result of improvement in the economy



National security, border control, asylum seekers

Australia should be prepared to contribute defence personnel to war zones where Australia’s national interest is threatened

Australia must maintain its territorial integrity again all comers

It is more important to prevent unauthorized arrivals than to accept genuine asylum seekers arriving in small boats

Small boat arrivals should be turned away

Asylum seekers arriving by small boats should be accepted willingly as our humanitarian responsibility

Asylum seekers should be processed offshore

Asylum seekers should be allowed onto Australian soil for processing

Temporary protection visas should be reintroduced

The Pacific Solution should be reinstated


Climate change

Global warming is a myth

Global warming is a reality and a threat to the planet and humankind

Global warming is the greatest moral and economic threat of our time

If global warming is occurring, urgent steps should be taken to counter it

An emissions trading scheme that puts a price on carbon would be the most effective ameliorating mechanism

A carbon tax would be the most effective ameliorating mechanism

A ‘direct action plan’ that involved no tax would be the best approach

The environment

Care for the environment is more important than economic considerations

It is more important to retain jobs and support business than to attend to environmental concerns

Polluting industries should be phased out rapidly

Renewable energy generation must soon replace coal generation

Australia should generate all of its energy requirements from renewable sources

There are as many jobs in ‘renewables’ industries as would be lost in discontinued polluting industries 

Nuclear-powered generation should be introduced here as soon as feasible

Use of motor transport and the building of freeways should be scaled down
Fast rail is to be preferred over roads

Mills such as the proposed Gunn’s Mill in Tasmania should not be built.

Population issues

Australia should allow population to grow at the previous rate without restriction

A desirable population for Australia by 5050 would be the projected 36 million

Australia should restrict its population through birth control

Australia should restrict its population through restricted immigration

Immigration should be limited to those who are needed to cover skills shortages

Immigration has been the lifeblood of Australia’s prosperity and should be continued at the same rate

A study should be made of this country’s carrying capacity now and until century end so that population growth and distribution can be regulated to match needs and capacity

The list could go on and on, and is already somewhat unwieldy. It is offered here simply as an example of the many issues that politicians must manage, and as a way we might approach assessing the relative worth of the attitudes and policy positions of our political parties and local candidates, in a way not possible simply through their party names or the place they are said to occupy on the conceptual political spectrum we talk about so much, but may understand in very different ways.

If you feel an important area has been omitted, please describe it and the options that accompany it, and I will add it to the list.

Finally let’s have your views about the relative merits of the established terminology we have used since time immemorial and the approach suggested above for selecting parties and politicians.

In my view political labels are not just useless; they are confusing and misleading.

What do you think?

Rate This Post

Current rating: NaN / 5 | Rated 0 times

Lyn

28/09/2010Good Morning Ad and your lovely wife Thankyou Ad, for your fantastic, enjoyable, column "Are Political Labels Useless" greeting us this morning on "The Political Sword". Our dear readers are very quiet that's because they are all busy reading your column Ad. Wow! there are a lot of labels when they are all listed together: [quote] Terms like ‘conservative’, ‘liberal’, small ‘l’ liberal, ‘economic liberalism’, ‘economic conservatism’, ‘political liberalism’, ‘social liberalism’, ‘social conservatism’, ‘socialism’, social democracy’, ‘liberal democracy’, or more colloquially, ‘wets’ and ‘dries’ are but some of the terms that are used to describe people’s positions and attitudes, and to point to their preferred policies[/quote]. Happy motoring Cheers

Lyn

28/09/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]Essential Research: 51-49 to Labor, William Bowe, The Poll Bludger[/i] http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2010/09/27/essential-research-51-49-to-labor-5/ [i]28 September: Boycott Murdoch Day, Stop Murdoch[/i] Make a statement. Don't buy Murdoch's newspapers, don't watch his pay television and don't click on his websites. Boycott any ABC shows which feature Murdoch employees. http://stopmurdoch.blogspot.com/ [i]Australia Leadership Battle on, The Diplomat[/i] it could easily spiral downwards for the Coalition. Once you get into the habit of being irrelevant, it’s very hard to break out of it…If that’s reflected in the opinion polls and the Coalition starts to lag Labor again, Tony Abbott’s job will be on the line and [Malcolm] Turnbull http://the-diplomat.com/2010/09/27/australia-leadership-battle-on/ [i]Rewriting History, David Havyatt, Anything Goes[/i] Depressingly, Malcolm seems to have learnt from the republic debate all the tricks the monarchists used to kill a good idea. http://davidhavyatt.blogspot.com/2010/09/rewriting-history.html [i]Abbott In Full Tanttrum Mode, John,True Politik[/i] no 'kinder, gentler politik' as promised by Abbott while he tried to woo the Independents so he could form government. It's like a warning of one enormous tantrum-to-come when Parliament resumes. http://truepolitik.blogspot.com/2010/09/abbott-in-full-tantrum-mode.html [i]LIVING NEXT DOOR TO KEVIN: The Rudds buy their way back into Yarralumla, Vex news[/i] It’s a beautiful home according to a glowing description found by VEXNEWS investigators: http://www.vexnews.com/news/10989/living-next-door-to-kevin-the-rudds-buy-their-way-back-into-yarralumla [i]Doomed by faithaholics, Gus, Your Democracy[/i] In the kill-or-be-killed game of politics, the minister was paying Abbott a compliment with the analogy to the cold-blooded and emotionless killing machine. http://yourdemocracy.net.au/drupal/

Ad astra reply

28/09/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

Lyn

28/09/2010[i]TODAY'S LINKS PART 2[/i] Bloggs - Grog's Gamut: [i]Why I unmasked blogger Grog , James Massola, The Australian[/i] GREG Jericho - until yesterday better known as Grog's Gamut - should keep blogging, says James Massola. [b]Is this, of itself, inexcusable? No. But nor is it appropriate. Jericho's decision to "live blog" the Media 140 conference (was it a sick day, a day in lieu, annual leave, did he clear it with his supervisor?) made my mind up.[/b]http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/why-i-unmasked-blogger-grog/story-e6frg6zo-1225930277362 [i]A storm on the internet : The Australian September 28, 2010 12:00AM [/i]Mr Jericho, aka Grog, made a name for himself through his blog -- without ever having to stand by his views. Many people swear off tweeting and blogging because of conflicts of interest http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/a-storm-on-the-internet/story-e6frg71x-1225930223585 [i]Tweets get messy as mainstream media takes on the blogosphere , SMH[/i] One of the top tweets of the day was from JeremysEar who said "@JamesMassola is quite right; only journalists may discuss politics. Everyone else needs to have their job threatened." And from another tweep "@JamesMassola You must be so proud of yourself, you petty and insecure little http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/tweets-get-messy-as-mainstream-media-takes-on-the-blogosphere-20100928-15udf.html [i]Now that We Have Your Attention, Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] The Twitterverse has gone off like a pokie machine at jackpot time after popular blogger Grogs Gamut was outed by The Australian's James Massola. http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ [i]Grog-gate: Outing as Bullying, Jeremy Sear, An Onymous Lefty[/i] The bullying by Mr Massola and his organisation in this instance, abusing their power to punish a critic, is a problem because it is being used in an obvious attempt silence and prevent such involvement in the future – http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/ [i]The whys and wherefores of bureaucratic blogging, Bernard Keane, Crikey[/i] Rather than respond to the issues raised by Grog, which of course run counter to the line propounded by The Oz, they’ve simply launched a malicious, hypocritical ad hominem attack on him. http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/27/the-whys-and-wherefores-of-bureaucratic-blogging/ [i]Transparency and blogging, Joshua Gans, Core Economics[/i] The Australian newspaper recently outed “Grogs Gamut,” a regular blogger who has contributed to the public debate and expressed, at times, political preferences. It did so because this particular blogger had actually begun to have impact. http://economics.com.au/?p=6254 [i]When Traditional media exposes public service bloggers, EGov AU[/i] I wish all the best to Grog - Greg Jericho. And in the interests of the continued growth of Gov 2.0 in Australia, I hope he will have the clear support of his managers. http://egovau.blogspot.com/2010/09/when-traditional-media-exposes-public.html [i]Outing the anonymous blogger. Good for the gander?, [/i] If Ken Henry started a blog saying that Joe Hockey is a dickhead we would have a problem, but as far as I can discern Grog wasn’t in that position. http://accidentalaussie.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/outing-the-anonymous-blogger-good-for-the-gander/ [i]The Business He's Chosen, All Eyeballs[/i] He’s hardly a threat to market share. But he is a threat to idea-share, to gravitas-share, and it is that more odious, more abstract form of brand protection that News seems to be engaging in at present. http://alleyeballs.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/the-business-hes-chosen/ [i]Grog’s Greg outed … so what? Iain Hall's Sandpit[/i] The Oz might be trying to make it look like Jericho has broken his obligations as a public servant but, from what I can see, he’s got nothing to worry about. Naming Grog might be malicious and vindictive but it should also be entirely expected. And does it really matter? http://iainhall.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/grogs-greg-outed-so-what/ [i]MSM vs Blogoshpere - Updated. The Angry Exile[/i] I feel it's not a good look for a national publication owned by an international corporation to bully a solitary anonymous blogger and take away the thing that made him comfortable and confident blogging. http://angryexile.blogspot.com/2010/09/msm-vs-blogosphere.html [i]Why I don’t use my real name on twitter, Bogurk, Misc and Other[/i] This isn’t intended to be a post about Grog, other than to say that I don’t think it was necessary to publish his identity, and that I hope he comes out of this ok. http://bogurk.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/why-i-dont-use-my-real-name-on-twitter/ [i]Outings, Dermott, Dermott Banana[/i] I don’t understand how the world knowing the name on Grog’s driver’s licence alters the veracity of his words. How does knowing Grog’s name is Greg dilute the criticisms of the media and the campaign that he published? http://dermottbanana.com/outings/ [i]Who has the right to speak?, The Conscience Vote[/i] These days, the people are speaking for themselves – and they are holding all Australian politicians and media to account. http://consciencevote.wordpress.com:80/2010/09/27/who-has-the-right-to-speak/ [i]Happy Antipodean[/i], First it was Jericho's turn to be splattered across the front-end of The Australian's roaring news vehicle. Then, in retaliation, tweeps from across the country bore down on Massola en masse. http://happyantipodean.blogspot.com/2010/09/theres-scene-in-truman-capotes-in-cold.html

Ad astra reply

28/09/2010Lyn Thank you so much for your kind and generous remarks. [i]Are political labels useless?[/i] is a rather complicated piece that will take a while to digest. It is an attempt to wrench us away from the tired old labels that mean different things to different people and to ask politicians and parties the key questions: “What do you stand for?” and “What do you believe?” We will be on the road most of the day [i]en route[/i] from Charleville to Longreach, so will not have time to respond to comments until this evening. But I will glance at them on the way on the iPad.

Ad astra reply

28/09/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated with a great collection of items about Grog. Thank you Lyn for such a comprehensive coverage. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx I'll get on the road now so will close down until this evening.

debbiep

28/09/2010 Another good piece AA. BTW Im back at hounding SBS TV show Insight to do a story on the media.More so nOW. Note on QandA last night the last question about Grog. And the comment that it was another interesting topic in itself. These could be changing times..* well one must have hope :)

George Pike

28/09/2010Perhaps the most blatantly obvious example of the uselessness of labels is provided by the Chinese. I would defy anyone to try and correctly explain the current system of government and society in China in a book, net alone with one label! To say China is "communist" in the recognised ideological sense of the word is a nonsense. The article below gives us a pretty good insight into how the western nations are going to continue to slide into irrelevance if something is not done to change our system of governance and our social imperatives. The current antagonistic, obsructionist and anti-progressive nature of our two-party system of government is dangerously impeding our ability to make best use of our economic and human resources. There's one thing wrong with the article...it fails to indentify the biggest threat to our competitiveness...the Coalition! Everything the government wants to do to renew our rapidly decaying infrastructure is being blocked by the meatheads in the Opposition..and that destructive obstructionist attitude is going to have serious long term economic repercussions for this country to say the least. http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/developing-nations-leaving-rich-ones-behind-20100927-15tog.html

NormanK

28/09/2010Good morning Lyn, A belated response to your kind comments - thank you. I'm afraid, in terms of new pieces, the cupboard is rather bare at the moment. Not that there are not plenty of events deserving of ridicule, rather it is a case of finding a vehicle suitable for the weighty subjects which have dominated the last 8-10 weeks. Fortunately, we have Acerbic Conehead to keep us entertained with his witty songs and stories. I envy his imagination and creativity. Thank-you for the many wonderful links over the last couple of weeks which have been of a particularly high standard. You must wade through a lot of dross in order to bring us the gems you find. Your efforts are greatly appreciated. Hillbilly Skeleton, Are you all ready for your class outing to the Big House? Remember to pack a clean hanky and don't talk to strangers (especially if they offer you a Deputy Speakership). You realise we will be expecting a full report on the events that transpire tomorrow? For myself, here is a list of topics which I hope you can cover : What was Julia wearing? (clothes horse) Do you think it was appropriate for the occasion? (media whore) Was it a new outfit or some tired old thing we've seen before? (penny pincher) Do you think Tim did her hair 'specially or have they been frolicking around The Lodge like newlyweds? (hussy) Did she carry a handbag or is she still spurning the burden of every other "normal" Australian woman? (elitist) Was she wearing an alluring perfume to confuse her opponent? (femme fatale) Was she wearing jewellery and if so, who do you think MIGHT have given it to her? (gold digger) Was it upper-class jewellery, middle-class or "normal"? (snob, aspirational or dinkum) Do her earlobes look as though they have had recent work done on them or is she wearing her impediment with pride? (superficial) Too much make-up? (tart) Too little make-up? (church mouse) No make-up? (hippie tree-hugger) Did you spot an upside down crucifix on or near her? A shadow would even do. (devil incarnate) I think that's about all. Oh no, oops. You can tell I'm a man can't you? Shoes. They should have been top of the list. What was she wearing on her feet? Something flat and sensible for a long day on her feet? (matronly) Eighteen-hole Doc Martens for a spot of head kicking? (fascist) Stilettos for the purpose of instep spiking? (treacherous) Trainers to help lure the jogging vote? (populist) Do her shoes match her non-existent handbag? (paradoxical) As for Mr Abbott, I really want to know if his lips are as handsome in real life as they are on telly. Especially when pouting. Which we might expect him to do a fair bit of if he doesn't get his way through having Julia hand over the Prime Ministership at the earliest opportunity. Have a great day and remember - don't drink the water, it's full of truth serum.

TalkTurkey

28/09/2010First: Who REALLY was outed by James Massola? Why, JAMES MASSOLA! This is to YOU, Jimmy Boy: You will NEVER be trusted nor forgiven as long as you live. You got a whole lifetime to exult in your coup against Grog, a strike as noble and courageous as that of the 4 youths who with a stick battered the aged Flamingo at Adelaide Zoo. (It survived!) You are DESPICABLE. If you don't already regret your act bitterly, you are also STUPID. I wriggle with pleasure at the thought that you have made your own bed of nails. Even more when I reflect that GREG JORDAN is now famous and respected in his own right, and has a great future whether in or out of the PS. Suck on that. Second: Folks: How do we form a coalition of all the decent political sites to make the Blogosphere the effective educative and action tool that is its potential? So much goodwill and good thoughts, we must somehow centralise its power to neutralise Murdoch. Who's got some useful thoughts? Third: Parliamentarians pouring out of House of Reps . . . Julia and Abbott side by side, ho ho ho. You can SEE him thinking, If ONLY I could punch her out . . ! . . How unjust, when I am so fit! IT'S NOT FAIR!!!

nasking

28/09/2010Hi all, I'm holidaying w/ my wife at present but the outing of Grog got me off the couch: Our Very Own Stasi Mess – Courtesy of Rupert http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/09/28/our-very-own-stasi-mess-courtesy-of-rupert/ Useful variety of links as ever Lyn. Thnx. Informative piece Aa. At present I do not think of The Liberals & National Party as such...rather, Sycophantic & Bullied Blockers United might be a more apt label for them. N'

TalkTurkey

28/09/2010NormanK I am very pleased to acknowledge and attest that there is much more to you than 3 words. I very much enjoyed your tour of Julia.

NormanK

28/09/2010Talk Turkey Shall we call it a draw and let the independents decide? I nominate my Mum. And my little sister.

jj

28/09/2010George Pike, I just hope that the Liberals don't sink the slipper into Slipper overnight the way they did to Alex Somylay. What a hypocritical lot you are! I am sure that if it was a Labor member of Parliament that decided to do a deal with the Libs you would probably be sending him death threats. Give it a break! Jason and co, I am not an author of a blog. I am not a public servant, working under the auspices of a contract which states that i must be apolitical in my job. Now i am not saying that he hasnt been apolitical in his job, but it was a bit silly of him to start authoring a blog, and accepting invitations to write outside of his blog, and not expect someone to try and find out the identity of the person. By the way, just watched Julia Gillard's address to the speaker...good to see she has decided to live by her word of being more of a consensus builder (NOT!!).

George Pike

28/09/2010What are you smoking jj? Must be strong stuff hey!

jj

28/09/2010Nice to see you can come back with a mature argument. Slur; name call; prejudice; is what you Labor hacks live and breathe.

George Pike

28/09/2010what do you expect after 11 long years of same from howard and costello???

jimbo

28/09/2010JJ The day you finally extract your head from your rectum will be the day you get over your obvious constipation and who knows after the initial satisfaction you may just start to put your brain in gear before you open that great hole below your nose and just in case you want to ask i dont mind dishing out insults and names at morons like you who like dishing out their vile bullshit.

Hillbilly Skeleton

28/09/2010Hi guys! Been out all day with my son who had to have oral surgery. :) So I haven't had time yet to read the new blog + comments. Will do that now. Before I do that I thought I had to link to this magnificent talk Deb Cameron had with the esteemed commentator John Menadue, about the pernicious effect of the media on political debate: http://blogs.abc.net.au/files/john-menadue-interview.mp3

Ad astra reply

28/09/2010Folks I’m now in Longreach. Thank you for your comments and kind remarks. It’s been an interesting day in parliament. We look forward to your report HS. jj You are fond of calling us Labor hacks. Please tell us what sort of hack you are so we can return the compliment. Lyn We’ll be on the road very early tomorrow morning so I’ll post your links to your special page when we get to Charters Towers.

Hillbilly Skeleton

28/09/2010jj, As your undoubted hero, John Winston Howard, once said, "Politics is all about the arithmetic". So let me just throw the first bit of arithmetic at you from the first day of the new parliament: 78-71 The first vote of the new parliament, and it went Labor's way by a solid margin. Tony Abbott was humiliated because he was unable to even hold those to his side who said they would vote with him, nominally. The Big Bwana in the Red Budgies was naked. Now, conservatively hack your way out of that thicket.

Hillbilly Skeleton

28/09/2010This is just in from Twitter: Meaning 2 libs voted against coalition RT @latikambourke: WA NAT Tony Crook says he voted 4 the coalition's choice of Scott, not Slipper. Hmmm. Tony Abbott's such a raging success already. Not.

Hillbilly Skeleton

28/09/2010Possum on Groggate and the declining influence of the MSM: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/09/28/gibbons-throwing-poo/ * Jonathan Green on the same tip: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/28/3024137.htm?site=thedrum * I'm going to take Poss's advice: 'Don't feed the trolls'.

Hillbilly Skeleton

28/09/2010NormanK, I have my notebook packed(I'm not lucky enough to own an iPad, and anyway, I'm an Open Source/Android person so will be waiting for the Galaxy Tab, or similar), but I do have my camera packed and I will be describing my photos in technicolour and suitably florid language for you all, as well as whatever the heck goes down on the day. I hope to get close enough to Julia to satisfy all facets of the undying curiousity you appear to have manifested about her. As for Tony Abbott's lips, I thought he was the essence of thin lips over gritted teeth. :) Sadly, you will all have to wait a day or two for me to 1) get over the epic 1 day journey to Canberra & back from the Central Coast of NSW, and 2) allow me time to tidy my thoughts and impressions up for public consumption. I'll see you 'round like a rissole, as the great Kev Kavanagh used to say!

Miglo

28/09/2010Hi Hillbilly. We'll be putting on some glorious weather for you. A comfortable minus one overnight followed by a warm and sunny 16. Given the forecast, you won't be needing any winter clothes.

Lyn

29/09/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS [/b] [i]The Empire Strikes Back, Mr. Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] The Australian's outing of popular blogger Grogs Gamut looked at the business-driven reasons for that newspaper identifying him in such a provocative manner (namely as a trolling mechanism) . But that's not the whole story - because at the individual level, there is more than a hint of the closed shop mentality at work here. http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ [i]Gibbons throwing poo, Possum Comitatus, Pollytics[/i] The outing of Grog’s Gamut and the petty, vindictive thuggery and implied threats behind it, speak much more about the character of the paper and the journalist involved than it does about any vacuous nonsense over imagined rights of anonymity online. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/09/28/gibbons-throwing-poo/ [i]The Oz's Bolt loose science of pop-news..Crikey[/i] In responding to the Twitstorm that erupted after James Massola outed blogger Grog’s Gamut in the paper’s Media section yesterday, The Oz decided to list comments http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/28/media-briefs-the-ozs-bolt-loose-science-of-pop-news-google-guilty-of-defamation/ [i]Don’t you know who I’m not?, Dave Gaukroger, Pure Poison[/i] I find it interesting that people at The Australian have more interest in Grog’s two thousand hit a month blog than Andrew Bolt’s two million hit a month one, I guess that sometimes you can discern between volume and value. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2010/09/28/dont-you-know-who-im-not/ [i]If you can't defend yourself, you shouldn't be allowed to speak, Mary Hoyden about Town[/i] Blogger Grog’s Gamut‘s legal name and position in the public service were today published by James Massola The Australian thinks you are successfully influencing public debate that is. Can’t let the less powerful do that, can we? http://hoydenabouttown.com/20100927.8784/if-you-cant-defend-yourself-you-shouldnt-be-allowed-to-speak/ [i]No-one should be forcibly reduced to a single indenity ,Peter Martin[/i] "Outing" a blogger using a pseudonym such as Grogs Gammut to his employer breaches this right. http://www.petermartin.com.au/2010/09/no-one-should-be-forcibly-reduced-to.html [i]The Australian: Accused of Just “Making Stuff Up” (Again), Reb, GutterTrash[/i] coming out in support of Mr Jericho and condemning the conduct of jourmalist Massalo and The Australian! http://guttertrash.wordpress.com:80/2010/09/28/the-australian-accused-of-just-making-stuff-up-again/ [i]Bullet by bullet, the bloggers win the war, Jonathan Green, ABC[/i] This is why blogs like Grog's Gamut are a threat to the waning journalistic establishment, because lucid, well written, and free, they represent the future. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/28/3024137.htm?site=thedrum [i]Simons: it wasn’t unethical to name Grog’s Gamut, Margaret Simons, Crikey[/i] But I think we all know the reason. Grog’s Gamut’s increasing public prominence made his identity a story — if only to journalists and politically engaged Twitterers. A year ago, it wasn’t a story. http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/28/simons-it-wasnt-unethical-to-name-grogs-gamut/ [i]A Passing Note on Grog's Gamut, Goonanism[/i] Grog’s Gamut was clearly a good read – so good he managed to influence the ABC’s the managing director Mark Scott. By all accounts he was insightful and that cut through the cacophony of other blogs that are less insightful (like this one). To have your writing noticed, acknowledged and trusted* when no one knows who you are or what your credentials are is quite remarkable. http://goonanism.com/blog/2010/09/28/a-passing-note-on-grogs-gamut/ [i]The outing of a favourite blogger BY JENNA PRICE, Canberra Times[/i] Grog isn't a journalist, he's a diarist; and an opinion writer. If we have the rule that Gamut needs to be outed, we will now need to out every single editorial writer in Australia and the rest of the world. http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/the-outing-of-a-favourite-blogger/1953530.aspx [i]The Oz declares war on bloggers: Rosen , The Australian[/i] By the way, is it The Australian's contention that Grog's Gamut was in violation of those guidelines? I would like to see that case made. And I would like to know why The Australian has issued its declaration of war. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/oz-declares-war-on-bloggers-rosen/story-e6frg996-1225930941588 [i]Blogosphere and Twitter no more than an echo chamber , Christian Kerr, The Australian[/i] SOMETHING bothers me about this whole Grog's Gamut thing. naivety and self-righteousness seems to define the vast majority of the Australian blogsophere. That and whining conspiracy theories. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/blogosphere-and-twitter-no-more-than-an-echo-chamber/story-e6frg996-122593092894 [i]Journalist threatened over Twitter outing , Lara Sinclair,The Australian[/i] A JOURNALIST at The Australian has been threatened and abused by users of Twitter after outing an anonymous blogger. http://www.theaustralian.com.au:80/business/media/journalist-threatened-over-twitter-outing/story-e6frg996-1225930267778 [i]#Grogsgate and the right to privacy, Kim, Larvatus Prodeo[/i] about the right to privacy issues regarding James Massola’s outing of blogger Grog’s Gamut’s identity, http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/09/28/grogsgate-and-the-right-to-privacy/ [i]How Do They Insult Us? Let Us Count The Ways, Niall Cook, Hyperidian Bannerman[/i] I’m actually gobsmacked at the temerity and tenacity of The Australian in it’s weak-kneed defence of James Massola’s act of spite in outing Greg Jericho http://www.waddayano.org/blog/2010/09/how_do_they_insult_us_let_us_c.php [i]The Grog’s Gamut Irony, The Vicious Circle[/i] James Massola from The Australian the revealing the identity of Grog’s Gamut as Greg, a public servant in the APS. (The since edited story includes a link to Greg’s blog with right of reply ‘Sparticus no more‘, following Dominic Knight’s blog http://theviciouscircle.net/2010/09/27/grogs-gamut-granted-anonymity-to-journalist/ [i]Murdoch's approach to his paper's critics - will island View be Next?[/i] Which leads me to also wonder whether The Townsville Bulletin will try and out me? I know they have spent a lot of time and energy in trying to work out my identity and that they certainly don't like criticism http://bloggingtownsville.blogspot.com/2010/09/mudochs-approach-to-his-papers-critics.html [i]Jeremy’s Ear, Jeremy Sear, An Onymous Lefty [/i]Christian’s imputation of hypocrisy in that paragraph is fairly defamatory – “his role assisting”, “happy to help with an outing” indeed. This is the paragraph to which he must be referring http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/2010/09/28/jeremys-ear/ [b]News After Grog:[/b] [i]Climate committee is better without the Coalition, Bernard Keane, Crikey[/i] the Coalition will lock itself out of a role in shaping what should be the most significant economic reform of this decade http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/28/climate-committee-is-better-without-the-coalition/ [i]Softball, The Piping Shrike[/i] agreeing to something and then saying a few days later that the naughty Labor party tricked him into agreeing to something that was unconstitutional. . http://www.pipingshrike.com/2010/09/softball.html [i]The beginning of the end,The Conscience Vote[/i] The Coalition want to force a situation in which they can win a vote of no-confidence. All they have to do is wait until Labor simply cannot cancel a couple of official engagements, http://consciencevote.wordpress.com:80/2010/09/28/the-beginning-of-the-end/ [i]Biffo, Gary Sauer-Thompson , Public Opinion[/i] The political reality is that firstly, this attack is another example of the Liberals choosing to deal themselves out of climate change policy. They are now on the outside looking in http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2010/09/biffo.php#more P[i]olitical Party System in the 21st Century, Seamus Lee, The Notion Factory[/i] The political party system in Australia is becoming very different to what it used to be. This is due to the rise of third parties. http://notionfactory.net/ [i]Adam Brandt interview, Tim Dunlop ,B Sides[/i] Even as I write this, I know such comments will provoke nothing but fury or sarcastic dismissal from the paper itself, but that isn't the aim of making them. http://tjd.posterous.com/ [i]Labor's tactics in the new parliament, Kim , Larvatus Prodeo[/i] it’s a good look for Labor. Abbott’s hectoring style was accentuated by the lack of noise from members opposite http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/09/28/labors-tactics-in-the-new-parliament/ [i]Why is the mass media so rotten, John, En Passant[/i] The Australian media has been called one of the most centralised in the world, with a tiny number of corporations controlling most of our TV, newspapers and magazines. http://enpassant.com.au/?p=8269 [i]Deputy Speaker, wmmbb, Duckpond[/i] The Deputy Speaker in the House of Reps is paid $164,000 per year, which is 20% more that what a backbencher is paid http://ianwestbrook.blogspot.com/2010/09/deputy-speaker.html

Lyn

29/09/2010Hi Ad Sorry Ad, The Australian links acting up, here they are again: The Oz declares war on bloggers: Rosen , The Australian By the way, is it The Australian's contention that Grog's Gamut was in violation of those guidelines? I would like to see that case made. And I would like to know why The Australian has issued its declaration of war http://www.theaustralian.com.au:80/business/media/oz-declares-war-on-bloggers-rosen/story-e6frg996-1225930941588 Blogosphere and Twitter no more than an echo chamber ,Christain Kerr, The Australian SOMETHING bothers me about this whole Grog's Gamut thing. naivety and self-righteousness seems to define the vast majority of the Australian blogsophere. That and whining conspiracy theories http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/blogosphere-and-twitter-no-more-than-an-echo-chamber/story-e6frg996-1225930928942 Journalist threatened over Twitter outing , Lara Sinclair, The Australian A JOURNALIST at The Australian has been threatened and abused by users of Twitter after outing an anonymous blogger. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/journalist-threatened-over-twitter-outing/story-e6frg996-1225930267778

Lyn

29/09/2010Hi Ad I will try one more time with the Australian links with out the writing , I really want you and everybody to read the three pieces. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/oz-declares-war-on-bloggers-rosen/story-e6frg996-1225930941588 http://www.theaustralian.com.au:80/business/media/blogosphere-and-twitter-no-more-than-an-echo-chamber/story-e6frg996-1225930928942 http://www.theaustralian.com.au:80/business/media/journalist-threatened-over-twitter-outing/story-e6frg996-1225930267778

Lyn

29/09/2010Hi Ad No go, sorry Ad, can you delete the last two tries for me please.

George Pike

29/09/2010Looks like Graham Richardson is joining the Coalition-News Ltd conspiracy to try and bring Labor down... http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/29/3024640.htm?section=justin

jj

29/09/2010AA, I am a non-Labor hack.

TalkTurkey

29/09/2010Lyn You sure deserve that bejewelled Tweety Bird. Amazing today. Thanks on behalf of all. Your Daily Links are really empowering - to Murdoch's horror, no question. On a previous post I said that I thought Harry Jenkins hadn't been tough enough as Speaker, or something like that. I still think so, I think he's too pleasant a bloke for his job really, and it DOES MATTER, the constant interjections MOSTLY by the Coalition and the spurious points of order ALL by the Coalition waste SO-O-O-O-O much time and make me ashamed of my species. Even when in Opposition labor has never been anything like THEM. HARRY. . ! . . As every Teacher, every Negotiator, every Aussie Rules Ump knows, YOU GOTTA ESTABLISH YOUR AUTHORITY FROM MOMENT 1, AND THEN YOU GOTTA BE CONSISTENT ALL THE TIME. These people you deal with are supposed to be adults, though sure, you have had to deal with the likes of Pyne and Hockey and Joyce. So, well, Deal with them! You got the Power! Everybody except those crabbed few of jj the juvenile jerk's ilk wants impartiality from the Chair, but if one mob is 100X more disruptive than t'other, then impartiality demands 100X the punishments. But every umpire knows, if you let the first offence go, and the next few, you got a free-for-all eh, but you fix up that first few, Pyne's whines will become whimpers because they have no substance and he won't dare keep interjecting inanities. One warning - then one hard glare - then "The Honourable Member will leave the Chamber for the rest of the day" - (one hour only makes the offender a hero with his mob.) As Punch says as he hangs the hangman who came to hang him in the hangman's own noose - DAT's Da Way Ya Do it! But Harry, I think you are a good and fair man, just please harden well you know the what up. Good governance depends on you. BTW I loved your reluctant struggles as you were forced into the Speaker's role. Congratulations. I'm sure you have a great deal of goodwill, perhaps the most any Speaker ever has had. Pyne

jj

29/09/2010HillBilly, Abbott knew all about the vote. Indies were going to vote with the government because they were angry at Abbott, and they hate the Nats. One of Slippers mates voted for him. Just wait until some of the big pieces of legislation are put to the parliament, that are not at all wanted for regional Australia (mining tax, carbon tax, euthanasia, same-sex marriage etc), then we will find out how much control the ranga really has.

jj

29/09/2010Jimbo, Give it a break. If you can not justify you stance, and why mine is wrong, than revert to personal insults; you are just showing how immature and shallow you are.

George Pike

29/09/2010I wonder what missionaries like jj do when they finally realise that they will never convert the savages to their way of thinking...just accept the fact that they are miserable failures and wander off into anonymity forever maybe...I'll keep them crossed at any rate!

Lyn

29/09/2010Hi Talk Turkey Thankyou so much for your lovely compliment, glad you like my diamond encrusted tweetie, the Political Sword presented to me she is enshrined, cherished by me. Glad you enjoy the links, Your right given what the Murdoch Australian has done to Grog, I hope they don't out me for linking to all the good stuff, just joking, but really we don't need the newspapers do we. Harry Jenkins in my opinion, same as yours is a way to soft on the Coalition, Abbott, Hockey, Pyne and the whole opposition front bench treat him as a joke, I'm always telling Harry on the TV, to throw them out. Remember the cardboard cutout they brought in of Kevin Rudd, question time, that day was a disgrace, grown men carrying on like high school juveniles. Your words "interjecting inanities" shocking s**t. Love your comments everyday, can't wait to hear your report on the antics of today's question time. Cheers

TalkTurkey

29/09/2010Lyn, or should that be Lin short for Linnet which IS a tweety bird, Glad to give a little something back. Never doubt that this form of communication is the most important thing of all in the world at the moment; as my Czech friend says, When in doubt, Communicate! The failed estate, thanks Mr Enmore for the term, makes this medium ever-more-critical if planet-saving information is to be disseminated. So that makes you as a switchboard ever more important likewise. I speak for many in thanking you but you for many many more in many more ways. Anyway I want it all to work, to bring down the Murdoch Vampire Empire, stop the wars we're in, convince people not to get into any more, treat environment and species preservation with energy and finance similar to what is now spent on Sport (but yes I do honour Aussie Rules Manball, I'm a Crows man but for thia weekend CARN the SAINTS!)and generally bring about a humane and intelligent decent revolution. Only what everybody decent wants though, but it does seem to me that most people, like Harry Jenkins, are too forgiving, or else too switched-off, or too worked-out, to be passionate enough to really bring about the changes that are needed. A hundred thousand people in Adelaide marched against the coming Bush/Howard/Blair war in 2003; that just vaporised, now we focus on a tiny number of boat people, or a model competition being muddled by that Murdoch woman (hilarious, but pretty unfunny for both girls I reckon. Trivial unless you're the victim, as voluntary euthanasia is to Abbott.) But if any force can help, the Internet is at its core, so Go the NBN, and more feathers to you. Bloody puddy tats, I don't like 'em neither. Change subject: jj the Juvenile Jerk . . . was that Jimbo missive for me? I'm not Jimbo . . . but if I offended you I'm glad . . . Is there anything else I might say to ramp up your discomfiture? Please let me know of the things that really get under your skin and I'll supply the Itchy Powder. Thought for today: Imagine the size of the mountain that would be made if all Murdoch's newspapers worldwide had been collected. He is an global locust plague. Listening to Senate QT au moment. The Opposition is performing up to expectorations.

jj

29/09/2010TalkTurkey, How old are you? What has the Liberal party, or any other party other than the Labor Party ever done to you to make you hate anyone that does not agree 100% with them?

jimbo

29/09/2010J ABBOTT J You whinging,whining,moaning Liberal hack.Its alright as far as you are concerned to troll your Liberal tripe around here with not so much as a rhyme or reason behind your comments and you have the utter gall to call me shallow, i will give you a sample of shallow you hard done by little liberal are you able to stay warm under that snakes belly JJ.

TalkTurkey

29/09/2010Jimbo Sorry if I thought jj the juvenile jerk's snivelling at you was at me. Congratulations! You have really got to him, well done. Still it does seem I've got to the little fellow myself now in my own right, and isn't it good to be able to wave "the Ranga" under his nose . . . I'm a Ranga too little jj, I love the term, thank you kindly, burn your eyes on any Rangas that come your way. How old am I jj? Old enough to have had friends conscripted by the "Liberals" to fight in the disgraceful murderous war in Vietnam . . . To be arrested by Liberal-sooled-on Police for objecting to it . . . To have seen the same "liberals" turn their backs on the same conscripts when they came home having lost an unwinnable war . . . to have watched Gough Whitlam's BEST-EVER government brought down by a coup brought about by the criminal Bjelke-Petersen and Kerr's cur Malcolm Fraser, who is now desperately trying to win redemption before he karks it (and he never was as creepy as your rotten little hero Howard . . . I'm old enough to have watched Liberal-sooled-on attack dogs used against my countrymen on the wharves . . . To have seen desperate refugees turned back and drowned . . . Oh, so much more . . . Haneef . . . Reith's lies . . . Abbott's lies . . . Lies lies lies . . . You wonder why I think your mob are creeps and liars? Why, 'cos they ARE! And I am LOVING being able at last to rub your nose in it. Come July, Labor still won't have an absolute majority in either House, but decent people counting Greens and 2 principled Independents will . . . Doesn't it just make you cringe? Please please please? Don't stop writing your whinges please, it makes me wriggle with pleasure. And oddly enough to you no doubt, I like kids, women, dogs, Aussie natives both human and other-than, Aussie Rules footy when no-one gets hurt, and snakes with no legs.

Ad astra reply

29/09/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx Lyn I can't find the articles from [i]The Oz[/i] to which you have had trouble linking. They seem to have disappeared. I'm now in Charters Towers after a long trip from Longreach. I'm finding Next G reception not good here - maybe it's my location out of town. I may not be able to upload your links to your special page tomorrow, in which case I'll try when I get to Mission Beach. Thank you for getting together such a great collection of links.

jimbo

29/09/2010AA I have had a thought,whilst you and your wife are on this trip you may like to mark down areas you find less than desirable concerning internet access so that when you get back you may do an article on this comparing it with the NBN.just an idea as to an interesting post.What do you think AA

Lyn

29/09/2010Hi Jimbo That's an excellent idea, for Ad to record the reception in different areas. You are thinking all the time, good on you.

Ad astra reply

29/09/2010jimbo I'll keep a note of Next G reception. So far Charters Towers has been the poorest reception, but that may be due to staying at an out-of-town motel. Anyway, let's see.

Miglo

29/09/2010"I'm a Crows man". Talk Turkey is a Crow's man!!!! This site is now tarnished. Please ban him. This is a respectable blogsite, hence we Port people feel at home.

Lyn

30/09/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]Belligerent Tony turns new paradigm into pig drama, Mungo Maccallum, The Independent[/i] By the way, paradigm is an anagram of pig drama. In this context, it seems entirely appropriate. http://theindependentbrisbane.blogspot.com/2010/09/belligerent-tony-turns-new-paradigm.html [i]To pseudonym or not to pseudonym?, Crikey[/i] To me this is where the discussion of journalists’ use of anonymous sources comes in — they have, by so easily giving anonymity to even senior politicians http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/29/to-pseudonym-or-not-to-pseudonym/ [i]It's not just The Australian. "The ABC has a lot to answer for", Peter Martin[/i] Bloggers give us worthwhile and diverse opinions, but are not particularly strong on the dissemination of factual information. http://www.petermartin.com.au/2010/09/its-not-just-australian-abc-has-lot-to.html [i]Blogs and anonymity - another News conspiracy?, Richard Stanton, On Line Opinion[/i] The blogger - Grog’s Gamut revealed as Greg Jericho, a federal public servant - had remained anonymous for two years, tweeting and publishing to the point where it was claimed that he influenced ABC election coverage http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11035&page=1 [i]Another meltdown at the Oz, John Quiggin[/i] in the case of Grog’s Gamut, a pseudonymous political blog which made some useful contributions during the election campaign. http://johnquiggin.com/ [i]Aussie bloggers forced to balance anonymity with influence Media group faces both ways on the issue, Jane Fae Ozimek, The register[/i] in Australia this week, Grog appears mostly nonplussed by the storm raging around him. In a blogged response to his outing, which refers proudly to his now achieving in the region of 1,000 hits a day, he denies any conflict of interest – http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/29/australia_blog_anonymity/ [i]The NBN and healthcare - depending on each other, Paul Budde,BuddeBlog[/i] over 70% of Australians want the NBN for services such as healthcare, education in addition to using it for Internet access and entertainment. http://www.buddeblog.com.au/ [i]Tasmania: a silicon valley? Gary Sauer-Thompson , Public Opinion[/i] the next Silicon Valley-style technology hub as the national broadband network is implemented over the next three years. It is envisioned that Tasmania will lead Australia in connecting to the global digital economy. http://www.sauer-thompson.com/ [i]New paradigm or new paranoia? The Conscience Vote[/i] The problem of numbers in the House was dealt a further blow today when the Opposition reneged on another part of its parliamentary reform agreement. http://consciencevote.wordpress.com:80/2010/09/29/new-paradigm-or-new-paranoia/ [i]The forty-third parliament: how’s it hanging? Tony Smith, Inside Story[/i] the importance of having a parliament that reflects society and so makes all Australians feel represented and the likelihood that female skills would enhance decision making. http://inside.org.au/the-forty-third-parliament-how%E2%80%99s-it-hanging/ [i]Question Time!, Reb, Gutter Trash[/i] Now I know why politics has been so boring lately…. I’ve been having question time deprivation!Let the hilarity begin! http://guttertrash.wordpress.com/2010/09/29/question-time/ [i]A libertarian/conservative view, Australian Politics[/i] It is ironic that five years ago this week, the Liberals actually voted with Labor in support of the Wild Rivers Act in the Queensland Parliament," http://australian-politics.blogspot.com/2010/09/zeg-in-his-latest-offering-conservative_29.html [i]From little things, big things grow., Ashghebranious, Ash's to Ashes Blog[/i] It might also be noted, that Mr Wyatt is a member of the Coalition who at that time had refused to apologise. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com:80/2010/09/30/from-little-things-big-things-grow/ [i]Tony Abbott travel Rorts. Screen shots.[/i]Video http://screenguide.com.au/2010/09/28/tony-abbott-travel-rorts/ [i]of liberal (conservative) philosophy, Gus, Your Democracy[/i]War on everything that is not "liberal". Biffo is good. War is brilliant. http://yourdemocracy.net.au/drupal/node/10145

TalkTurkey

30/09/2010Port Shnort! Go Crows! AAARRRK AAARRRK AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRK! (but Miglo, I go for Power next after Crows after Freo) Did yous catch Turnbull v Conroy on NBN last night? and reactions all over the media this AM? Could it be that the media is kakking itself watching the 5th estate taking over the political debate and seriously challenging the media maggots? Let's make that happen eh! Remember folks: ONE submarine is estimated to cost $40 Billion and not be ready until 2025. Bruit it around! EVERYBODY (even jj the juvenile jerk) will benefit from NBN. About those soldiers who killed the kids . . . What happened to the notion of sub judice? There was this interminable interview with an anonymous (cf Grog!) masked-out man defending them this morning, "Senior Defence Force Officer" as Trioli is saying right now, there he is again with Michael Vincent, saying the men were a bit dismayed, and Oh how long it's all taking, (19 months!) Tell that to Guantanamo prisoners! Wiil the soldiers' trial be a public affair? If not why not? and if so how will there ever be found an unprejudiced impartial jury now that it's all been sanitised already by "Senior Defence Force" personnel? STOP THE WAR! AUSSIES OUT!

George Pike

30/09/2010The Liberal's opposition to the NBN is dead! Malcolm Turnbull was destroyed by Conroy and Jones on Lateline last night, yet today, the ABC have chosen to hide that fact and run pro-liberal propaganda ad nauseum anyway. e.g., Tony Abbott even carried on with the $5,000 per household garbage on ABC's AM program this morning, and Lyndal Curtiss declined to challenge the point despite the fact that the figure was ridiculed on LLine last night. Turnbull actually appeared to cry on LLine, never before has he been so fundamentally ridiculed on national television, and it cut him to the core. Any real opposition to the NBN is now dead and buried, yet the ABC are choosing not to run one word of that fact on their radio programs this morning...shows how much they care about spreading the truth hey!

Hillbilly Skeleton

30/09/2010Miglo, Thank you for the lovely weather in Canberra yesterday! I actually thought it was quite muggy and warm! Well, until we were on our way home that is, when it turned into a wet, cold afternoon/night that was more like I was expecting. But I was on my way home by then so it didn't matter as much. :) Anyway, much bonhomie was generated yesterday, and I will have more to say anon. :) Though not today because it's Food shopping day. Life goes on here in sunny, warm Sydney!

Ad astra reply

30/09/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx Lyn Next G reception no better this morning - two bars out of five, but I managed to update your special links page. Off now to Mission Beach.

jj

30/09/2010George, Turnbull did what he had to do. He exposed the fact that the $25 million study that the Labor Party commissioned was not an economic and social benefit analysis. Conroy couldn't answer why they had not done a cost benefit analysis if (as he claims) the NBN co will be flawless in its implementation and business dealings. Conroy also didnt seem to understand that the NBN will only cost $26 billion of taxpayers money if there are sufficient investors; and without a business plan/cost benefit analysis to back this up why would anyone invest? If the Government had not scrapped the coalitions broadband policy, to see access to all Australians' (Labor's is going to deliver the same service that the coalition proposed to provide in rural and regional Australia), than that network could have been almost completed by now. This debate is about equality of services. The coalitions plan would have delivered equality, the Labor party's wont. Jiimbo (aka Mr temper tantrums), If you want to treat people in life as you do than go ahead. I try and contribute my thoughts, that is all. i do not put you down whenever you comment, rather it try and respond through argument over the policy rather that immature name calling, and prejudicing; it would be nice if you did the same.

jj

30/09/2010Talk Turkey, You sound like a very angry person who applies all your anger that you had to Liberals previously and have decided to use this prejudice you have as a blanket reason for hating anyone that has different views to you and the party you support. I am not a member of the Liberal Party, National party, Family First, nor any other conservative party. However i do hate it when people lock themselves into their political positions after their days at university...and that is what you sound like, an angry uni student. Do you support the Labor Party's stance on asylum seekers? It is the same as the Liberal Party. Do you support economic conservatism? Both the Labor and Liberal Party say they do. Do you support the war in Afghanistan and Iraq? Both the Labor and Liberal Party's do. Do you support a workplace which allows individuals to bargain with their employees as individuals, to get certain workplace conditions that support them individually in carrying out their job well? Both the Liberal Party and Labor Party do. Maybe if you took a step back from a lot of the areas you claim the Liberal and Labor Party are juxtaposed, you may realise that your beloved party is really not that much different to those whom you oppose.

TalkTurkey

30/09/2010Yes and did you-all see Harry Jenkins telling Whining Pyne to quit rabbiting around (his term: guess what term I'd like him even more to say even if it's unparliamentary!)and sit down. Pyne was utterly gobsmacked. He sat down and said not a word for almost a minute. More of this Harry please! I missed what happened with Bronny Bishop though . . . Anybody tell?

Jason

30/09/2010jj, I know your only the external manager of opposition business, but when your at your next focus group on the NBN here is what murdoch said in 2006 http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/murdoch-slams-slow-broadband/story-e6frg996-1111112529377

Lyn

30/09/2010Hi Talk Turkey I didn't hear what Bronnie said in the first place, but heard Harry Jenkins ask her to withdraw, she did so from her seat in a very small voice, Harry Jenkins said "no! you will come to the depatch box and withdraw", Bronnie did so, but in a very small voice, Bronnie not happy. Pyne more or less got told he was being stupid, and to behave. Turnbull was lost on lateline last night, hadn't done his homework and was relying on using uncommon, technical terms in an attempt fool viewers and Tony Jones, didn't work. When asked what he would do in 3 years time, when 40% of the population has optic fibre NBN, Turnbull was lost for words. What Turnbull and Abbott need to realise is Conroy has been working with NBN for 3 years, he is well schooled, he knows exactly what he is talking about, the uncommon Turnbull terms do not fool Conroy. Turnbull forgot a common, basic rule, he needs to know his opponent. When Turnbull was asked if a CBA came back positive, would he accept the NBN, non answer, Tony Jones had a "gotcha" on the 43 Billion, also the 5,000 per household. When Tony Jones thanked Conroy and Turnbull, Steven Conroy was polite, Turnbull did not answer and looked very sad and close to tears, I observed the same as George. ("Oh!dear my double speak didn't work written all over his face"). George is absolutely correct, there is no opposition to the NBN, no policy to offer, no credible argument.

jj

30/09/2010Talk Turkey, It is a shame that it was Jenkins was the one in the wrong. He didnt read out the table properly and therefor actually embarrassed himself. Why wouldn't the minister for education be in charge of the BER anyway?

jj

30/09/2010"He said the Government and Telstra should be spending "$10 billion or $12 billion on it to reach every town in Australia; they do it in Japan, they do it in South Korea, we should be able to do it here. We are being left behind and we will pay for it." That was the coalitions policy you fool! The Labor Party could have delivered internet to people that do not have access to it at these sorts of speeds by now, but they decided to scrap the coalition policy. Fiber cable isn't going to run to all of the homes and businesses in remote Australia, so why did they halt the process of them being able to get it, to build a ridiculously expensive network that wont be up and running until 2018!

Jason

30/09/2010jj, "Fool" jj if you had been listening to the debate japan and south Korea have what Australia is proposing. jj or how about this fact by the time your lot get back into power most of the country will have it,the indies that put the government in power want it and quite frankly the coalition can go and tell someone who cares! I/we don't.

George Pike

30/09/2010If anyone is at a loss why the Labor Party increased its vote in most Tassie seats, I can tell you with absolute certainty that is was the fear of being stuck with the woefully inadequate and dysfunctional services being forced upon us at hideously high prices under the telstra monopoly that made everyone down here turn a blind eye to the endless pro-lib propaganda from the media. Wireless is CRAP...there is NO ADSL+2 in most areas of the state and satellite services are garbage...only complete morons would even think for one minute that the fibre to the home offered by the NBN rollout will not be vastly superior to the current and proposed mishmash of outdated technologies being proposed by the neanderthals party... As Conroy pointed out last night, Turnbull has everything he wants in Potts Point...while the rest of country has got miserable worthless services that most Asians would laugh at. Jusy shows what a pathetically selfish attitude the liberals really have.

jj

30/09/201070% of all schools, hospitals and universities have fibre connection. Telstra under the previous government proposed investment of around $10-$12 billion in connecting the whole of Australia to 50 MB per second. The government said no, we will build it ourselves using taxpayers money. If you had have listened on ABC news 24 they had an independent telecommunications expert and consultant by the name of Morgan. He exclaimed that the private sector could invest and build the sort of network that the government proposes (not 100 MB but 50+)by adjusting the regulations that rule over the industry. Why not let the private sector take on this burden, making sure that it is efficient and profitable, rather than risking tens of billions of dollars on a wholesale fibre network with no business plan or cost-benefit analysis.

Jason

30/09/2010jj, get over it!it's happening find another battle.

Johnny Button

30/09/2010jj There are no independent experts on ABC 24. It is a mere extension of News Ltd. Furthermore, Telstra is now a private sector enterprise, why haven't they built it already and at the same not rip off other ISP's and the public?

NormanK

30/09/2010On the subject of the NBN. indulge me while I offer an analogy. First, let me make a semantic distinction between "cost" and "outlay". For the purposes of this post let us allow "cost" to mean money put forward with no prospect of being directly recouped and "outlay" to be an investment which might reasonably be seen to produce a monetary return. If I were to contemplate the purchase of a new computer because the latest model would be faster, more efficient and require less maintenance, I might do a cost//benefit analysis. Cost is pretty straightforward - for ease of handling let's say $2000 plus $100 interest on a loan to buy it. I might anticipate that I will get 5 years out of it before it starts to incur further costs in maintenance and upgrades. I could do some sums to calculate the benefits that I might be able to derive from my new toy such as less travel time, better security for on-line activities, faster speeds for processing work and so on. These sums would be very rubbery and any small shift in a single parameter (e.g. how often I use the computer) could alter the outcome. Let's say I reckon I can benefit to the tune of $1000 over the five year life of the computer. Now I have to decide whether an $1100 loss in cash terms (presuming the computer is worth nothing in re-sale value after five years) and an ambiguous $1000 gain in benefits is value for money. If however, I can find people who are willing to collectively pay $420 per year for access to my computer, by the end of five years I will have covered my outlay, including interest on my loan. What need then do I have for a cost//benefit analysis? My computer has cost me nothing to buy and I have accrued possibly $1000 in benefits. Seriously understated in the discussion of the NBN is the fact that although the outlay of taxpayers' money will be to the tune of $27 billion (according to NBN Co), the cost after fifteen years (according to the McKinsey Implementation Study) will be zero. On top of that will be the benefits : This is from the NBN Co website : [quote]"Access Economics states that adopting smart technologies in electricity, irrigation, health, transport and broadband could add more than 70,000 jobs to the economy in 2014 alone. It also predicts an increase in GDP by 1.5 per cent within ten years due to the same investments. Access Economics has based its research on a national Fibre-to-the-Node network and notes the benefits would be even more pronounced under the Fibre-to-the-Premises plan. Access Economics has predicted high speed broadband itself to increase the net present value of GDP by $8 - $23 billion over ten years and create 33,000 jobs (in the roll-out) by 2011."[/quote] http://www.nbn.gov.au/ I apologise that I can't find an independent link to the entire document, try as I might. Report trumpets benefits of NBN - The Australian August 19, 2010 [quote]The research firm (Access Economics) was asked to uncover the impact of a high-speed broadband network on telemedicine for remote consultations, remote home-based monitoring of chronic-disease patients and the aged, and remote training of medical professionals (using haptics). "At present some institutions, including some rural public hospitals, have access to the high-speed, high-capacity data connections needed for telehealth,'' it says. "However, with the NBN, small hospitals and medical centres, individual doctors and private homes will all be able to participate in telehealth. "While many urban locations currently have high-speed broadband, usually [b]upload speeds are much slower than download speeds, and reliability can be patchy[/b]. Both of these are substantial impediments to telehealth, which would be remedied by the NBN.''[/quote] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/report-trumpets-benefits-of-nbn/story-fn59niix-1225907026775 From the Access Economics Report with regard to the financial and externality impacts of ubiquitous high-speed broadband on health and aged care costs. [quote]"Using a combination of a national level United States (US) study into one aspect of tele-health (tele-consulting) and a national level Australian study that was mostly based on EHRs but had tele-health components, Access Economics estimates that steady state benefits to Australia from wide scale implementation of tele-health may be in the vicinity of $2 billion to $4 billion dollars per annum."[/quote] Financialandexternalityimpactsofhigh-speedbroadbandfortelehealth-311.pdf Private money will be attracted to NBN Co through the sale of bonds once the build has reached a particular milestone and not via direct private investment. The Implementation Study strongly recommends against direct inputs of private investment money until at least five years after the build is complete because private money and the obligations to shareholders which accompany it, would compromise the government's ability to legislate laws which maintain a level playing field for wholesale customers. This level playing field will also ensure that users pay a similar price per plan regardless of deployment costs. This is something which no private enterprise could get past its Board or shareholders. The idea that city folk are subsidising rural folk or that the private company is not seeking a flat rate of return on outlay costs would be anathema to them. However, the government can do it. From Lateline last night : [quote]"He's paying $75 a month for faster speeds, telephone and 40 gigabytes of downloads - $25 dollars [b]less[/b] than his previous connection costs."[/quote] [quote]"HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: ...... so just how much of the NBN's potential is being harnessed at the moment? MARTIN GOULD, SORRELL COUNCIL: Not a great deal. We're basically running it on a trial basis. ... We've only had the connection on for about two weeks. It's certainly faster than our previous internet connection. We're paying less money at the moment, so, it's early days for us."[/quote] There may be shortcomings in the NBN scheme but cost is not one of them and the benefit of 93% of users having access to similar speeds (both up and down) for a similar price is surely a worthy one.

Lyn

30/09/2010Hi Norman K I have just come in from the garden, and wow! I find your brilliant, enjoyable, fantastic comment to read, well thought out in straight forward, understandable language. Thankyou so much NormanK, you are an assett to us all, your contributions making "The Political Sword" a popular, interesting place for commenters to visit. I just hope that our Government will get 50% of the country connected before the next election. I have wireless, If anyone else tells me that wireless is sufficient, I will give them the cold shoulder. I have had just so much trouble with Bigpond Telstra, I wouldn't even try to tell you. Of course I am locked into a 3 year contract, any complaints are treated as, too bad so sad.

Ad astra

30/09/2010Folks We're in Mission Beach - two out five bars Next G strength. NormanK Thank you for your lucid exposition on the NBN. If only commentators were as clear. I hope jj reads it. I thought Malcolm Turnbull made a poor fist knocking the NBN on Lateline. More on that later.

Hillbilly Skeleton

30/09/2010The killer line from last nights confrontation on Lateline between Malcolm Turnbull and Stephen Conroy was when Conroy derided the Coalition plan as "a world of Pair Gains and RIMS". Ouch! Not to mention the number of relay towers that would need to be built everywhere. I guess when you look out on Sydney Harbour you don't see the visual pollution.

Patricia WA

1/10/2010Many thanks, Norman. So why hasn't this sort of explanation been available to IT illiterates like me before? Or has it been and I along with most members of of the Opposition haven't noticed it? I presume, though, that the likes of Malcolm Turnbull would be familiar with everything you wrote? In which case, no wonder he presented such a hollow case on Lateline. His heart isn't in it. Playing politics Abbot's way must be soul destroying for him.

Lyn

1/10/2010Hi Ad and Your Lovely Wife I hope you are enjoying your stay at Mission Beach. 2 out of 5 bars is not a very good reception, it's a wonder those people living there haven't complained more, I wish more people would speak up for the NBN. We are just little people having trouble, how hard must it be for the professional and medical people. Question time yesterday was boring, Christopher Pyne being his normal idiotic self, getting thrown out, just normal. Harry Jenkins is taking a much harder approach which is good to see. Joe Hockey well! made a fool of himself with his question, everybody laughed twice. Julia Gillard is closing up a lot sooner than Kevin Rudd ever did, which is good, if the opposition is going to ask such stupid questions, wasting Question time, she may as well shut down. Your not missing much Ad. Take care Ad and your wife, have a happy day. Cheers

Lyn

1/10/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]The Spin Cycle, Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] Indeed, The Australian's white-anting over the RSPT arguably played a role in Rudd's demise. http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ [i]Whither the federal fourth estate? Helen Ester, On Line Opinion[/i] There is already robust contention about the impact of Web2.0 media technologies and the pluses and minuses of the multi-faceted capacity for governments to avoid the critical expertise of the specialist political news-round, http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11039&page=1 [i]The Life you could be leading: the threats and extraordinary possibilities of Web 2.0, Nicholas Gruen, Club Troppo[/i] The term Web 2.0 was popularised in 2005 to signify the internet’s transaction from being a medium for point to point and hub and spoke medium communication and interaction http://clubtroppo.com.au/ [i]How the media poison the well of public debate, Tim Dunlop, B Sides[/i] The idea that the media "are just the messengers" is a lie that should be challenged at every point. http://tjd.posterous.com/how-the-media-poison-the-well-of-public-debat [i]Quality sets The Australian apart, Tim Dunlop, Unleashed[/i] brave journalist James Massola from The Australian leapt into action. He published Grog's real name and thus made the country safe from this person's anonymous, nefarious influence. http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s3025826.htm [i]What Use A Partisan Fourth Estate?, Niall Cook, Hyperidian Bannerman[/i] for those at The Oz, for the coalition to not be in government is not a good thing, or conversely, for Labor to be in government, hardly palatable. http://www.waddayano.org/blog/2010/09/what_use_a_partisan_fourth_est.php#more [i]Anonymous, Super Opinion, The Notion Factory[/i] By now, most of you will have heard and read about the outing of political blogger and tweeter Grog’s Gamut by Australian journalist James Massola. This article sent shockwaves through the online community in this country – – http://notionfactory.net/2010/09/30/anonymous/ [i]Pyne sent from chamber for 'hopeless' jibe, Emma Rodgers, ABC[/i] Mr Pyne then said Ms Gillard had sat down because she was "hopeless". http://www.abc.net.au:80/news/stories/2010/09/30/3026162.htm?WT.mc_id=newsmail [i]Of a bigger and better mining tax & weeping billionares & the NBN & Malcolm Turnbull & a bloody nose for a rich Potts Point fantasy life, Dorothy Parker, Loon Pond[/i] Turnbull got done over by Conroy, and worse Turnbull knew it, and sat sulking and glowering at the end of the interview, and didn't deign to match Conroy's cheerful close "thanks very much, Tony" with any words at all. Just a glower and sulk ... http://loonpond.blogspot.com/2010/09/of-bigger-and-better-mining-tax-and.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LoonPond+%28loon+pond%29 [i]And it's goodnight from him, Tobias Ziegler, Pure Poison[/i] group of writers was invited to pitch a new blog, dedicated to tackling misrepresentations and faulty reasoning in the media, http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/

Lyn

1/10/2010Hi Ad The dreaded rel="nofollow"> is chasing me again, and has wrecked Tim Dunlops story link, so here I will try again: Quality sets The Australian apart, Tim Dunlop, Unleashed brave journalist James Massola from The Australian leapt into action. He published Grog's real name and thus made the country safe from this person's anonymous, nefarious influence. http://www.abc.net.au:80/unleashed/stories/s3025826.htm

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/10/2010lyn, Here is Ash's latest blog. It is also on the NBN: http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/infrastructure-the-need-for-a-nbn/

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/10/2010As only an Ad man can, Harold Mitchell hits the nail on the head wrt the NBN: http://www.theage.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/in-the-battle-for-broadband-lets-fight-for-a-better-future-20100930-15z7k.html

Lyn

1/10/2010Hi Hillbilly How are you this morning, after your interesting trip to Parliament? I suppose you have 30,000 jobs to do after being away, like all us girls take time off, jobs are awaiting still, never finish. Thankyou for Ashe's link on the NBN, I will put up here, so then Ad will come along and get it for the special link column on our cover page. [i]INFRASTRUCTURE: The NEED for a NBN, Ashghebranious, Ash's to Ashes Blog[/i] I am bewildered to why [b]the opposition are still confused about the NBN[/b]. I really am. It is clear and obvious that the project is not a business. It is INFRASTRUCTURE! So why do they fall back to the argument of show us the cost benefit analysis? http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/infrastructure-the-need-for-a-nbn/

jimbo

1/10/2010Hello Lynn Have just come across an interesting article on the NBN.If you would like to link it to other places there is a link on poll bludger you can find on the new thread Armadale Araluen number 37 in the first line of comments under poster i think John Reidy i have already shared it through facebook.The person commenting on the NBN and and what is said is pure gold.Have fun with spreading it everywhere you can Lynn.

Ad astra

1/10/2010Lyn Reception is so poor at Mission Beach that I will leave uploading your links to your special page until we get to Port Douglas late afternoon.

jimbo

1/10/2010Oh boo hoo JJ No i dont usually talk to or treat people like this normally, only whinging cry babies like you,even your avatar suggests to me you are nothing but a cry baby but so as you dont get too upset i will leave you alone now as i have wasted way too much time on you as you have have the same repetitious crap oozing from you day in day out.Go have a BEX and a lie down.

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/10/2010lyn, How very perceptive of you! Yes, there are a million jobs to catch up on, and also I'm still trying to collect my thoughts re the Canberra trip. I'll get there, hopefully sooner rather than later. :)

Lyn

1/10/2010Hi Jimbo Thankyou so much Jimbo, for your excellent tip on NBN link over at Poll Bludger. There is 1,134 comments and there sure is some worthwhile reading, I will go back there later. I copied this one, but not sure if it's the one you meant it was on John Reidy's comment: [i]Murdoch slams slow broadband , Richard Sproull and Mark Day, The Australian, Nov, 2006[/i] In Australia we only have a couple of million people on broadband and they don't even get 1Mb.""I think it's a disgrace." http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/murdoch-slams-slow-broadband/story-e6frg996-1111112529377

jimbo

1/10/2010Thankyou Lynn That is the one, and if people on this blogsite could spread this far and wide as soon as possible it will make it even harder for the unaustralian to prosecute their argument against an NBN because if they try and use any other arguments they will go down as BACKFLIPS from their original reasoning.These same backflips that they find so detestible when it comes to the Labor party.DOUBLE STANDARDS MURDOCH practice what you preach.

jj

1/10/2010"INFRASTRUCTURE: The NEED for a NBN, Ashghebranious, Ash's to Ashes Blog I am bewildered to why the opposition are still confused about the NBN. I really am. It is clear and obvious that the project is not a business. It is INFRASTRUCTURE! So why do they fall back to the argument of show us the cost benefit analysis?" Are you an idiot or what! Of course it is a bloody business, because if it makes a loss it will come off the budget bottom line. Do you know why the project hasnt affected the budget you fool? Because they have stated that they 'believe' that the business will be viable, and will over 15 years pay for the investment. But hey, they dont have any modelling to back this up...nor have they shown us whether it is the most cost-effective way of delivering high speed broadband. Anyway, if it is as good as you all say it is, why dont they just do a cost-benefit-analysis? Because they know that what it will find will not fight there political story line.

jj

1/10/2010Norman K, There is one major error in your little analogy; there is more than one type of computer to choose from. A cost-benefit-analysis would determine which is the most cost effective way to deliver the same service. if the government is so confident that they are right, than what is the harm in doing the study?

jj

1/10/2010Johnny Button, If you think the ABC is a right wing news station, than i would hate to think what a left wing news station in you eyes would be. Telstra didnt build it because the government (Krudd) told them not to. Plus there are heavy competition regulations that are prohibiting big telcos' from being able to invest in regional areas, as the regulators are frightened that telstra will hold a monopoly in the area. What the regulators do not realise is that if they ease up on the competition/profit regulation than telstra will start to build their network ($12 billion of which they took to the government in 2008 to approve), and once the other telco companies see that there are profits to be made they will start to invest, reducing prices. By altering regulation in the area, billions of private dollars can be unlocked to build the necessary infrastructure, with all of the risks etc being on the head of the companies. By allowing private enterprise to do the work, this will also allow the system more flexibility, as if and when new technologies come along they will, through competition, have to change and adapt these new technologies to compete; under the NBN it is in the governments interest to make sure that no new technologies are able to enter Australia in this field, as it would lead to a decline in value of their investment.

jj

1/10/2010October 1. 2010 11:08 AM 'fit' not 'fight'

Lyn

1/10/2010JJ Would you have a look at a new Gravatar, there really are some nice ones to have. Click on Gravatar near the comments box and the instructions will tell you what to do, you can even use a picture of yourself that would be nice, or whatever you like, it's fun choosing.

NormanK

1/10/2010jj I envy you. I really do. Here I am struggling to come to terms with the events of the last six months which have challenged many of my long-held beliefs about democracy. All I want is some quiet time to digest it all and restore some perspective. Lick my wounds. Do a bit of research. Ponder the nature of humanity and how easily we can be lead down the path of foolish thought. Surprisingly, this is despite the fact that the party of my choice managed to hold on to incumbency. And there you are, firm in your beliefs and dogged in pursuit of them even though your side was narrowly and unluckily pipped at the post. I shouldn't be surprised at your confidence though. These are the fruits you can harvest when you are safely ensconced on the fertile moral and intellectual high ground. After all you are an expert on the Liberal Party. And the National Party. And honesty. And the Labor Party. And regional Australia. And the NBN. And Tony Abbott. And Julia Gillard. And the Independents - it's not your fault that Windsor and Oakeshott showed a lack of common sense and made the wrong decision. You were right in your evaluation of their electorates and their responsibilities, no matter what they or anyone else says. Despite this set-back, you still find time and energy to come to TPS to lead us poor blind stragglers, lost in the wilderness of ignorance, back to the path of enlightenment using incontrovertible reasoning and impeccable sources to which you always provide links. Maintaining such a reasonable voice devoid of subjective invective must come at no small personal cost to yourself I should think. And are we grateful? Not a bit of it. To be frank, I fear we may be beyond help - too cantankerous and set in our ways, you know? Old dogs and new tricks sort of thing. Perhaps your charm and fine debating skills would be put to better use on more malleable clay. As much as you might be missed, we could struggle on here and muddle our way through without you - patting ourselves on the back for stumbling on a half-truth here and there and keeping some good old leftie myths alive. You know that every date with a 3 in it is "Gough is God Day" for us. I am sure your family, friends and work colleagues would appreciate seeing more of you and the joy you bring to life. Don't worry about what will become of us, spread the sunshine around. We don't deserve you, jj and I just thought I should let you know that. Honestly.

Jason

1/10/2010For all us men http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/01/3026980.htm?section=justin

George Pike

1/10/2010Doesn't apply to us sailor boys Jason...we're all house trained..have to be when you live sea hey...and when you live alone!

jj

1/10/2010NormanK, All you had to say was, sorry i may have told a little fib.

Country Hick

1/10/2010norman - I'm with you.I prostrate myself before jj's superior knowledge, insight, honesty, and vision. jj has thoroughly convinced me that she believes what she is saying, and is a worthy representative of a body of opinion in Australia. I have no doubt that the Liberal Party can count on her support and that when they next are in office, she will endorse everything they do and stand for. Yep. I'm convinced. Now, about the uselessness of political labels ...

Ad astra reply

1/10/2010LYN's DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx Lyn Now in Port Douglas where Next G is OK. All the links work.

Lyn

1/10/2010Hi Ad and Your Lovely Wife Good to hear from you today Ad. "The Political Sword is going along fine, with all our wonderful commenters keeping us entertained every day. Port Douglas must be posh, Next G working, good for you Ad. Hope you enjoy Port Douglas, very pretty isn't it. Hear you tomorrow, happy motoring. Cheers

Gravel

1/10/2010NormanK at (12.29(, I second your advice to jj, I think even his wonderful powers of persuasion are just going over all our heads. Hi everyone, I've been away a couple of weeks and out of the loop (voluntarily, unlike HS, who was forced away from the bloggosphere). I read the last couple of blog and think I've caught up with all that has happened. I was so upset to hear about Grog, I have been reading his blogs for ages and love the way he come across, I wouldn't have know he was a PS in the gov., so he certainly did let any secrets out of the bag. How weak is our media to have to attack someone that tells things like they are? Ad Astra, I hope you are enjoying your travelling and get time to rest and relax as well. Lyn, I have book marked so many links it'll take me a month to get through them all, my eternal thanks for all your hard work again.

Gravel

1/10/2010 Sorry that should have been "he DIDN'T let any secrets.

Lyn

1/10/2010Hi Gravel Lovely to see your Gravatar with you back on "The Political Sword" we have missed you, you know. Thankyou for your sweetie compliments. Yes it was very sad about Grog and nasty what the Australian Newspaper did to him, the episode certainly created a storm across the blogosphere, not just in Australia, worldwide. Never mind he is a big boy, a brilliant writer, so I am guessing and hoping some good will come out of it all. Maybe someone will offer Grog an acting roll in a movie perhaps. Ad Astra and his wife seem to be enjoying their trip, visiting lovely towns and scenery. Our wonderful commenters on "The Political Sword have been keeping us informed and entertained. I see today that Mr Abbott is travelling to the UK over the weekend, to talk with Mr Cameron, can't help wondering how such a trip benefits Australia. The Abc is reporting, but I notice there is some kind of obscure justification, that the ABC feels it's important to mention Julia Gillard's business trip overseas in the same sentence. Abbott to meet British PM, ABC Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott are both embarking on overseas trips. Mr Abbott will leave for the United Kingdom this weekend to attend next week's Conservative Party conference in Birmingham in central England, where he will hold talks with prime minister David Cameron. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/01/3027082.htm?section=justin

NormanK

1/10/2010Country Hick Whew! For a little while there I thought I was on my own in deciding to devote my life to the adoration of jj but I'm pleased to report now that membership has doubled over the last few hours. I reckon we could probably get Gravel onside as well if we offer a few procedural reforms. It's okay, we don't have to honour them. One disciple is just a hanger-on but three? Well, three is almost a kitchen cabinet isn't it? If only I'd paid more attention during Social Networking Class, I could be out there now twatting away drumming up new members. Our first hurdle is going to be breaking the news to Ad astra who has been so kind to us for so long. We could break away as a splinter group but I have a low pain thresh-hold and the only thing worse than a splinter is a paper cut. Thank god for computers. We'll need a name too. We could form the "Real Action Faction" (there's nothing like a good faction) and seek to facelessly direct things from behind the scenes. I have become a bit of a couch potato so I would have to rely on others (you) to do the bulk of the bike riding and swimming. How are you with budgies? And boats? As a coffee drinker, I have a gastronomical aversion to following the US model but perhaps we could try the "Lovely Cream Biscuit Party". I don't think we want to be seen as Dry, do you? The "Scone with Strawberries & Cream Alliance" has a good Aussie feel to it with Monarchist overtones and would dovetail nicely with the Palin mob. However, I do believe that the "Right of The Right to Rule Over The Left Party" best sums up what we are about. What do you reckon?

Ad astra reply

1/10/2010Gravel, Lyn Thank you for your good wishes. It has been magnificent trip through the centre of this vast country. Let me tell you about an incident that characterizes country folk. On an outback road I came across a dead kangaroo that was being consumed by four large wedge-tailed eagles. Unable to avoid it but miscalculating the clearance under my car, I passed over it. The kangaroo carcass partly dislodged a bracket supporting the exhaust pipe so that the loose end kept scraping the road each time we went over a bump, of which there are plenty on outback roads. Concerned that the loose bracket, which was clearly visible hanging down, might cause further trouble, I stopped for advice at an engineering workshop on the outskirts of the next small town, Hughenden. John emerged from under his massive livestock road train, took one look at the bracket, crawled under the car and in a few minutes emerged with the mangled bracket in his hand. He told me the loose end had been torn from the floor of the car leaving a hole into which rain on the road could enter the back seat recess. He plugged the hole with black putty-like material, screwed the other bolt back into its place, and in ten minutes we were ready to roll again secure in the knowledge that the bracket was now in the boot. He refused payment but agreed that we donate to a local charity. He was happy to chat about his farming ventures, his livestock transport business, his engineering workshop and his plans for extension. I thought how strikingly John epitomized country people. Having worked with them for years, I regard them as the salt of the earth - kind, smart, resourceful, and always helpful. As a kid I was told that farmers could fix most mechanical problems with binder twine and fencing wire. Metaphorically that still hold true. So the newfound interest in Canberra in regional and rural affairs is not just welcome, but thoroughly deserved by the great people who populate our remoter places.

countryhick

1/10/2010norman, I can't tell you how proud I am to be part of this group with you. There are a few issues we will need to iron out, but I think we're onto something here. First issue is membership. I think we need a way of gauging the commitment and ... well, the utility of others who may wish to join us. In some secret societies I understand the key is a special handshake, or a password. In this case, I suggest we require a level of dexterity in presenting an argument that black is white while shouting slogans and abuse as a way of building a sense of community and shared understanding. And if that doesn't work, a swift kick to a sensitive part of the body, whilst growling angrily. Second issue is, as you say, breaking the news to Ad Astra. I don't think this is too big a problem; all we need to do is to follow our leader's example and keep shouting abuse until everyone goes away, kills each other, or AA decides to shut down the blog. That way we won't have to take responsibility for resolving this issue - we will be able to go and find another group of people who look like they are happily conversing and remind them that the human condition is to fight. Third issue is who does what. I am somewhat distressed to find that you are expecting me to smuggle budgies whilst riding a bike. Last time I did that I had to seek assistance of a discreet kind from one of AA's colleagues, so I don't think I'm very interested in doing that any more - even for the cause (er, The Cause). However, if the leader (er, The Leader) really needs us to make sacrifices like this, I suppose I will do what I have to do. But I have to warn you, it may result in my normally warm, receptive, interested and listening personality becoming angry, morose, negative, and grasping. (Ah, maybe that explains it!) Finally, a name. I am diabetic, so some of your suggestions have already sent my blood glucose levels way out of range. But "The Right to rule over what's left" looks good to me, and I think it sums up our movement perfectly. Shall you tell the leader, while I arrange the chairs?

Hillbilly Skeleton

1/10/2010NormanK, I, too wonder what jj finds so endlessly fascinating about our little aetherial neck of the woods. You'd think they'd get greater satisfaction from settling into the comfy predictability of a Bolt or Albrechtsen blog. But no, in the spirit of Web 2.0 evangelism, he/she/it bravely continues to till the seemingly fallow fields of us unreconstructed 'Lefties', unwilling or unable to 'see the light'(well, only able to see 'The Light On the Hill', apparently), in the wan hope that one day, a straw man of an argument will be the one that breaks our backs of resistance to the inevitability of the fact that 'We are all Conservatives now'. So noble. So fatally misguided, huh? I also wonder if jj realises that an equivocation in the media about Tony Abbott and the Coalition does not equate with potential governing competence in their opinion. And that the Murdoch media do not always report the truth of the matter? Hmmm.

countryhick

1/10/2010Ad astra I really enjoyed and appreciated your comment about the encounter with John at Hughenden. This is really the level where political labels mean almost nothing. I grew up in such a community (nowhere near Queensland), where conservative meant you cared what happened to others, didn't like things to change too quickly, and were suspicious of people who told you they knew the answers and claimed to speak for you. And my dear old dad literally did keep most things together with binder twine and fencing wire! I keep a good roll of wire and any cast off binder twine handy still, just in case. Thanks for lighting up good memories. And thanks for sharing the stories of your trip.

Ad astra reply

1/10/2010NormanK, countryhick Your satire may soon earn you an invitation to join the Chasers. Your response to jj Norman will earn applause from fellow bloggers. A few days ago jj informed me that he was ‘a non-Labor hack’, which leaves me wondering if he is a Liberal hack, a Nationals hack, a Queensland LNP hack, a WA Nationals hack, a Greens hack, an Independents hack, or simply a common or garden hack. Whatever the prefix, the suffix says it all. You both seem to be coping well with jj; I’ll leave that to you.

Lyn

1/10/2010Hi Country Hick & Norman K You and Norman K are so much cleverer than me, on that basis maybe I won't qualify for group membership. I can't wear budgie smugglers my wings are in the way. The Bike is impossible, pedals too far away. Ad Astra has me on an AWA, which has stipped away all my entitlements, no RDO's for me, so no time to arrange the chairs. I can make nice scones.

Jason

1/10/2010Normank, It's OK I'll get the numbers, AA and HBS will be told for the good of the blog they need to step aside, and jj could become the moderator and start putting the agenda up! I know it's a move to the right but what choices do we have? We can't keep on thinking we live in "a workers paradise" but as you know the only way for happiness is what the mad monk tells us with his snappy one liners. Why it has taken so long to realise we have been wrong for so long who knows? jj I'm sorry I shall as a matter of urgency ask those with left wing thoughts that comment on this blog to under go a lobotomy.God imagine having an original thought?

Miglo

1/10/2010Hello fellow bloggers. I can feel the rumblings growing. The disgust we have for the MSM in this country cannot be contained much longer. Min has put up a post by Fran Barlow over at the Café that is fairly hard hitting and a worthwhile read. Please feel free to drop in and share the rising disgust with us. It's people like Fran and Aa that will eventually stir us into action. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/fran-speaking-fankly/

TalkTurkey

2/10/2010NormanK, Hillby Skeleton, Country Hick, May I join the jj admiration group by whatever name? I see it all now, I used to think that he was a waste of oxygen (and of the Left's time in trying to enlighten him ). . . and only yesterday I wrote him quite a long post replying in insulting terms to what I now realise are his well-meaning and insightful judgments of my person @ 9.27 AM 30/9/10 . . . But I accidentally deleted it, truly. I told him how I honoured as mentors such Labor figures as John Curtin and Ben Chifley, and Don Dunstan my local Member whom I counted as personal friend, and Gough Whitlam and Bob Hawke and Paul Keating and Kevin Rudd, and now Julia Gillard . . . How I was a True Believer in the essential decency of the first Labor Party in the world to hold national office . . . but now, thanks entirely to his rigorous researches and erudite exposes of their true nature, I now realize their essential corruptness, their anti-Australian white-anting of our noble and tolerant society . . . Oh enough. Folks what is your take on Auntie pulling Marieke Hardy's article about Pyne, the Member for Skirt? (Kevin 07 called him that last year, quickly echoed by none other than Tony Windsor MHR!) Pyne the Mincing Poodle! (Julia's jibe); prissy, pompous, pomandered, primped, pusillanimous, pathetic, piss-ant. On Wednesday Harry Jenkins told him to stop rabbiting around, to sit down and behave himself. Then yesterday he expelled him from the House . . . Seems to me Marieke was pretty well on the money, except that really to have things like Pyne wasting the time and resources of the national Government is not very funny at all. He really is a disgrace, worse than Iron Bar, and with less insight. For the ABC to pull the Hardy article with grovelling apologies to Pyne is quite dismaying since it draws a line that shouldn't be there at all, and it says a lot about the national broadcaster too. Hardy said nothing defamatory, nothing untrue, and nothing that wasn't richly deserved. So . . . Was it SEDITION?- Remember, Howard was threatening to charge people with that! But the sad part is, Pyne probably THRIVES on it, there are always plenty of sycophants who tell him he's wonderful, and he thinks he's so witty that people only say things like the Hardy article about him from envy, as if! It's the old Bjelke-style Ignorance is Strength thing again, and it really is very hard to scotch, until and unless ENOUGH people can be awakened to what creepiness lurks in the minds of the Coalition. Meanwhile, it's time we acknowledged just how brilliantly Gillard has negotiated with all reasonable Members since the election, for it is in the washout entirely down to her that the Coalition is not in power now. All praise to the Ranga, eh, jj? - Well, NO, not all . . . A lot of the credit must go to Abbott for providing the Push Factors, 'on ya Tony! You jerked Failure from the jaws of Success, and I love you for it.

Patricia WA

2/10/2010Talk Turkey - 'push factors' is putting it mildly. What an aggravating zealot that man is. His one triumph of the week was because poor pregnant Tanya Plibersek couldn't quite make it to the Chamber in time for a vote. She was probably caught in the loo! And he carried on as if he'd won a gold medal at the Olympics. My indignation over that had Miglo at Cafe Whispers asking for a 'wee' pome from me. I was only too happy to oblige. Sorry, if it's a bit off your current theme. Although I guess ladies about to go into 'Labor' might just make it relevant. [quote]Ps and Qs for Members when in Parliamentary Chambers [/quote] Our lovely lady PM, Jules, Has introduced some thoughtful rules To help other ladies in the House Necessitated by that louse, Abbot, and his policy on pairs. “And for the men?” you ask. Who cares! It is easier, remember, When you are, and have, a member! If you’re male and want to pee You can stand and handle it, but we, Even without occasion to excrete, Will always need a cubicle with seat. You men will never have to queue And then have someone hassle you To hurry up, as they start to yell, “They’re ringing the Division bell!” So now there’s an arrangement for Lots of ‘Ladies’ near the Chamber door. Sensitive to a need for clemency In cases of late pregnancy, After lobbying by Rob Oakeshott, There’s provision too for a ‘Chamber’ pot.

Lyn

2/10/2010Hi Ad Sunday morning TV: October 1, 2010 Sunday morning TV - a guide to Sunday morning's political and business interviews for this Sunday morning: 3 October Full program listing available at: http://sundaymorningtv.posterous.com/ 8:00am Ch10 Meet the Press Paul Bongiorno is joined on the Panel by The Daily Telegraph's Malcolm Farr and The Sydney Morning Herald's Jessica Irvine, together they interview; Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey, and ACTU President Ged Kearney. 8:30am Sky News 601 Australian Agenda This week on Sunday Agenda, Trade Minister Craig Emerson is interviewed by Peter Van Onselen and panelists Paul Kelly, Dennis Shanahan and Piers Ackerman. 8:35am Ch7 Weekend Sunrise - The Riley Diary Political editor Mark Riley looks at the self-inflicted efforts of Parliamentarians to take the shine off the new paradigm in Federal politics. 8:38am Ch9 Today on Sunday - Laurie Oakes interview Laurie Oakes talks to …. awaiting confirmation of program guest. 9:00am ABC1 Insiders On Insiders this Sunday: Barrie Cassidy interviews the Minister for Regional Australia, Simon Crean. On the panel: Radio National Breakfast host Fran Kelly, Political Commentator Kerry-Anne Walsh and Herald Sun columnist Andrew Bolt. And Mike Bowers talks pictures with the chief photographer with Fairfax media, Andrew Meares. 10:00am ABC1 Inside Business This week on Inside Business Alan Kohler talks to prominent company director, Tony Shepherd, who chairs big infrastructure businesses Transfield & Connect East. They also talk to former senior RBA policy maker now HSCB Chief Economist Paul Bloxham about an insiders view on what might be happening with interest rate policy. And, a look at Telstra’s plans to try an renew its business. http://sundaymorningtv.posterous.com/

Lyn

2/10/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]The Drum isn't RYWHM - even if many of us might like it to be, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison[/i] for whatever reason former Crikey editor Jonathan Green took responsibility and [b]pulled the piece, and News Ltd has been crowing ever since[/b]. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/ [i]Fran, speaking frankly, Min, Cafe Whispers[/i] Clearly this is what the ‘outing’ of Grog was all about. The advertisers noted that people such as Grog were receiving more hits, more inputs that the OO. And so the OO went to war against Grog. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/fran-speaking-fankly/ [i]Preference Flows at the 2010 Election, Antony Green, ABC[/i] This data looks at the final destination of preferences between Labor and the Coalition candidates for each of the minor parties. http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2010/10/preference-flows-at-the-2010-election.html [i]NBN: cost benefit analysis , Gary Sauer-Thompson , Public opinion[/i] Secondly, Turnbull does not say what kind of cost benefit analysis he thinks should be done: an exercise in measuring private net benefit for a commercial entity or one that measures the net benefit to human welfare. http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2010/10/nbn-cost-benefi.php [i]First words in the Forty - Third Parliament that Tony Abbott may repudiate, clarencegirl , North Coast Voices[/i] One has to wonder how long it will be before he tries The Speaker's patience during this particular parliament. http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com/ [i]Andrew Bolt is not happy , Michael Brull, Overland.[/i] I wrote that our politicians and corporate media peddled hatred and fear against asylum seekers, which created the conditions that caused Rauluni’s death. http://web.overland.org.au/2010/10/01/andrew-bolt-is-not-happy/ [i]Burn Baby, Burn!, Niall Cook, Hyperidian Bannerman[/i] Clearly, what Jericho managed through his astute & pointed critique was an embarrassment to the nation’s flagship newspaper and possibly to certain persons within. Corporate embarrassment. An anonymous blogger embarrassed a media corporate. How dare he/she!!! We’ll do something about that, won’t we!!! http://www.waddayano.org/blog/2010/10/burn_baby_burn.php#more [i]#grogsgate raises enduring questions, SBS[/i] debate over #grogsgate was still raging the point remains that the #grogsgamut incident brings up complex and enduring questions about the role of the media in this new-fangled digital age. http://www.sbs.com.au/news/blogarticle/120602/-grogsgate-raises-enduring-questions/blog/Byte-Me [i]The Australian Media Series Audio Webcast[/i] Grogs-gate: A storm in a tweetcup - Join The Australian's Media Editor Geoff Elliott and Capital Circle columnist James Massola along with 2UE's Canberra correspondent Latika Bourke to discuss the vociferous response on the Twitter over The Australian's decision to name the anonymous blogger Grog's Gamut http://www.brr.com.au/event/69279/partner/theaustralian [i]Four Corners: Oct 4, David Knox, TV Tonight[/i] Tony Windsor, Rob Oakeshott and Bob Katter gave Four Corners access for 17 days as they decided who would be Australia’s next Prime Minister. Each day they disappeared behind the closed doors of their offices, Four Corners was there. The result is must see television. http://www.tvtonight.com.au/2010/10/four-corners-oct-4.html Australian Labor 2010 Review website. This webpage enables members of Australian Labor, Party branches, unions and the many people who worked tirelessly in the 2010 election campaign to have their say on the future direction of the Labor Party. http://www.review2010.alp.org.au/

Ad astra reply

2/10/2010Folks Now in Port Douglas I’m catching up with the dialogue that has gone on while I was on the road. Although the iPad was useful in killing spam [i]en route[/i] there was not enough time to digest your many thoughtful and humorous comments. So I’ll spend some time this weekend catching up. Political blogging has become so intense an activity that forced absence takes its toll. Thank you all for continuing the dialogue so energetically and so expertly, and for your wit and good humor. Lyn, your links continue to be a wondrous source of information and intelligence, drawn as so many are from sources outside the MSM whose pieces are becoming more and more predictable as it pursues its too-often partisan objectives. Thank you for giving us so many pieces that are so much better to read that what the MSM dishes out and the ABC replicates either mindlessly or more sinisterly with deliberate intent. I’ve still to read the full gamut of comment about Grog’s ‘outing’. But what I’ve managed to cover has been on the one hand fascinating, and on the other gratifying, in that so much support has been voiced for Grog and his always-worthwhile comments, and more generally for the role of the ‘Grogs in the Fifth Estate’ who at last are having some impact on what the MSM purports to be news and commentary but which we in the blogosphere see so often as simply partisan propaganda in the strict sense of that pejorative word. We earnestly hope Grog not just that you will continue your important blog, but that it will be even more widely read and appreciated because of the unwanted publicity the ‘outing’ has given you. We need you – please stay with us. The number of satirists on this blog multiplies. Acerbic Conehead set the pattern and now NormanK, countryhick, jason, HS and Patricia WA have joined the throng with cutting and witty comments and verse. Thank you all. Over the weekend I’ll try to get another piece together. The NBN seems like a suitable topic.

Ad astra reply

2/10/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

Rx

2/10/2010Fran Kelly and Andrew Balt on [i]Onesiders[/i] this week. Another "fair and balanced" production from their ABC in association with News Ltd.

Gravel

2/10/2010Lyn Thanks for that, I missed all you people more than I missed the politics, it's nice to be back. I was looking forward to seeing the sunday programs but after your information I think I'll give them a miss this week, thanks for alerting me as I'll be able to read more of your links instead of laying in bed watching TV. NormanK Gravel is definitely behind the bit to get rid of our "lefty" thingy. I see one or two others are on this too. Can I vote for the title of "Right of The Right to Rule over The Left Party"? Ad Astra Your great trip so far is bring back memories, my first thought on reading your exhaust problem was a coat hanger. In the 80's we went up to Cooper Pedy in a Kingswood towing a van, exhaust rattled of, used a couple of wire coat hangers to tie it up until we could get it fixed... Hope the rest of your trip is free of any further mechanical problems, but is sure is a good way to get to know the local "bushies". While on trips down memory lane, I am suffering a bout of tonsillitis, which hasn't visited me for over 45 years. As I can't talk much I thought I'd have a whinge in writing. No sympathy required though. Patricia Your poetry is excellent, I hope you have a wide range of readers of your talent, you certainly deserve it.

Macca

2/10/2010Normank;.. sign me up! I am astounded at my ability to be so bloody minded when questioning/disagreeing with the philosophies, mantra, doggerel of the Neo-con movement when espoused so lucidly by jj. Once again I have had to ask myself extremely difficult and personal questions and cope with some rather awkward answers. "Macca, how have you managed to be so wrong on social issues and agendas for so long." "Macca, surely you can't treat billionaire media moguls with such contempt to the extent of never buying their quality daily/weekly tabloids. It is, also, very rude not to give your, admittedly miniscule custom, to their advertisers." "Macca, to be fair, not all of the opposition politicians are lazy, ideology barren miscreants waiting patiently in line for their turn to join the conga line of suckholes that will whisk them up to the, very much fabled, Murdochian utopia that, apparently, awaits those who follow the party line......only their leadership group." In conclusion I think we should have a quiet moment or two and reflect on the wisdom and compassion of jj and give genuine thanks. To force me to shine such a bright and cleansing light into my soul has been an epiphany and I thank you jj. Only you could have shown that those things closest to heart, compassion, empathy, understanding and the humbleness of feeling blessed in life, have all the substance of a swinging brick. Thank you again. You do good work. Now I must be off to the shed....I have a petard to build.

NormanK

2/10/2010Country Hick I can't tell you how excited I am! I hardly slept last night. Today we find that the grassroots' groundswell is manifesting itself as an avalanche which will launch a landslide to sweep away the Old Order leaving us with the type of rubble we were destined to govern. Already we have seen the fruits of consensual negotiation under the new parathingy - paraquarter, parabuck, paranickle (mmm, fresh from the oven, served with a dollop of pure butter. Those days are gone,eh?) and I would be honoured to second your motion that we gather under the banner of the "Right to Rule Over What's Left". It is so succinct in describing our ambitions and gives us leave to tear down everything in our path with the greater goal of small government and less interference in individual lives. Beautiful. If we sow the seeds in the right places, we may come to be known, quasi-affectionately**, as "The Leftovers". "jj & The Leftovers" has a wonderful Motown 50's//60's sound to it but doesn't limit us to songs relying too heavily on vocal harmonies (something which I don't think we can count on in the New Order) but leaves us free to perform a Sex Pistols' style rendition of "Bloodywell Advance Australia!!". (AC - what do ya reckon?) We could look forward to headlines like : "The New Political Force - The Leftovers of The Australian Tea Party". Sweet! (Sorry, mate.) But I'm getting ahead of myself. To take your points as you listed them : I don't think it will be necessary to ask new members to demonstrate their dedication to the cause by killing a close relative. We aren't extremists. A simple setting fire to a neighbour's cat would suffice provided it is backed up by video or photographic evidence. I have had a long-held view (which I have been reluctant to express here for fear of recrimination) (this movement is SO liberating!) which holds that black is simply white with your eyes closed. If only more people realised that consensus is just a blink away. At the risk of sounding sycophantic, I have to say your second point is profound in its insight. I particularly endorse the shouting abuse part. However, Ad astra and his rusted-on acolytes should be given a little more time to wake up and smell the coffee. Once we have the numbers, a bloody, gore-strewn coup should be well within our scope if there is still resistance. An historic victory. As to the allocation of jobs, as a founding member of the Leftovers you will be in a position to choose your own tasks and responsibilities but the shift in your personality from "normally warm, receptive, interested and listening" to "angry, morose, negative, and grasping" should be seen as a necessary prerequisite to advancement. If a little bit of budgie cycling is all that it takes, we should be grateful for small mercies. Or any mercy really. History has shown that we should stay alert to another pitfall - the propensity of new movements to render their Prophet to the backwaters of history in favour of worshipping "The Light" to which he has led them. To counter this I will be proposing at our inaugural AGM that we declare one hour each day as "jj Hour" when we stop what we are doing and contemplate what a sorry state we would be in, collectively and as individuals, were it not for The Prophet's great wisdom. This could prove disruptive so I'm suggesting the hour between 3.00am and 4.00am with a special dispensation for those who find themselves working at this hour to make their own arrangements. What do you think? **I'm a bit of a sad and lonely bloke so I'll take affection, of whatever sort, anywhere I can find it. Hillbilly Skeleton I suspect you are going to be one of the more recalcitrant members of TPS but I am encouraged to see you write [quote]"..... the inevitability of the fact that 'We are all Conservatives now'."[/quote] If you can bring yourself to understand that the only right way to read "The Australian" is the Right Way, you will have made a significant advancement down the path to enlightenment. Baby steps. Baby steps. You don't have any mine-laying expertise do you? Lyn Loathe as I am to contradict you, I feel I must. I can personally attest that events of recent times have shown you to be both clever and astute. For this I am grateful. Having said that, cleverness is not a necessary prerequisite for membership - look at our leader, not being the sharpest tool in the shed hasn't held jj back. With regard to your AWA, let us deal with Ad astra. Come the day, he will be either with us or up against the wall. There will be no discrimination according to gender in our new world so there will be no expectation of you retiring to the kitchen (but if you wanted to bring some scones from home, I wouldn't say no). Since we will be down-grading the NBN there will be a greater emphasis on other means of communication - your contacts may very well prove invaluable. Regardless, in the future (as now) you will be at the centre of all that we do should you choose to join us. Do you have any maritime experience? Jason It brings a particularly warm glow to my heart to hear that you have converted. We hope to avoid the necessity of turning the machine men loose on this blog but it strengthens our arm to know that we have them at our disposal. Of more pressing concern to me is the possibility that the closer we get to power, the more likely it is that in-fighting will break out in the scramble for individual power. We saw this recently with The Great Coalition and we know from The Right Hand of God that "disunity is death". We would hope that you could provide the glue (congealed blood of lefties) that will keep us united in our quest for the true way. I should warn you though : [quote]"God imagine having an original thought?"[/quote] is straying awfully close to having an original thought. By the way, how would "Admiral" suit you as a title? With your own frigate of course. Talk Turkey It is pretty obvious that you are struggling to maintain a clearness of purpose and a willingness to subjugate your own opinions in favour of The Gifted One's pronouncements. Don't worry, as time goes by a numbness will steadily creep over your brain and it gets easier and easier to chant the mantras. Incidentally, are you any good with boats? Gravel Welcome back. Just in time to see history in the making. Our Inaugural AGM will probably be the place where we will take a democratic vote on the title for the movement and then we'll just go with whichever one jj likes. Feel free to lobby, but in this as with a great many other things, I fear moments of disappointment lie ahead of us. Macca Maaaaate. Your post is a lesson to us all that a little humility and self-reflection goes a long way. Welcome aboard. These petards - you don't do a waterproof version do you? [i]I used to love a good baked petard until I found out what goes into them.[/i] We wait now with bated breath for the latest pronouncements from The Oracle**. I'm sure jj will look down upon us all and smile. ** Note to Country We really need to sort out a title for jj. I'm tying myself in knots here.

countryhick

2/10/2010Norman - you is de king! (I'm sorry, jj; you're our highly steamed Leader - but Norman IS de king!) I've already set my alarm (er, Alert, not Alarm) for 3.00 am for the Leader's Hour of Adoration. But bugger, they've stuck the start of daylight saving in there, and I'm going to miss it. See you all in March when the Leader's Hour of Adulation finishes.

Lyn

2/10/2010Hi NormanK Now that I gathered my composure, blotted the tears from my cheeks, reapplied my mascara and eyeliner, I will attempt to tap the keyboard without any further loud gurgling, laughter. maritime experience? I WILL turn the boats back. Ad Astra has phoned me by morse code, he has cremated my AWA this morning, I am all set to be signed up at your earliest convenience, Oh I forgot, I could 'tweet' the minutes of the AGM, my shorthand is very fast, my arms are very short. George, Janice and A Conehead have gone missing you will need to contact them. Cheers The Left overs of Australia Tea Party, party of direct actioneers, mission statement squash the disagree'rs. Like macca I'm of to make a petard, wondering do I cook it.

janice

2/10/2010[quote]- kind, smart, resourceful, and always helpful. As a kid I was told that farmers could fix most mechanical problems with binder twine and fencing wire. Metaphorically that still hold true. So the newfound interest in Canberra in regional and rural affairs is not just welcome, but thoroughly deserved by the great people who populate our remoter places. [/quote] Ad astra, it is so pleasing to know you are enjoying your trek through the inland. You know, the more remote from civilization people are the more resourceful, smart and kind they become. It is a matter of survival because each depends on the other. Your experience with John at Hughenden is typical of people living and working in the real bush, not the 'bush' the media and farmers refer to who live in areas only a couple of hours away from big town/cities. I was born (well almost, as Mother did a two week travel to Brisbane for my birth) and raised in our remote outback on cattle stations where the nearest small town or even the nearest railway siding was 100 miles away. I remember well my mother's relief and joy when they received their wireless and were connected to the Royal Flying Doctor Service, especially when, just a few months later my father became very ill and she was able to contact the doctor on the 'medical session'. With the RFDS radio came a medical supply box and the doctor was able to prescribe medications by referring to the numbered list of its contents. This actually saved my father's life. People like my father had to be resourceful and learn to be a jack of all trades. And yes, fencing wire and string did many a job of holding things together. A rellie came to stay once and he was both flabbergasted and amused when the diesel water pump failed. He had some mechanical knowledge but soon discovered that there were no new spare parts which he said were necessary to fix the thing. However, my father appeared in the workshop with an old relic he'd got from the bone yard and adapted the parts from it to fit the other. "Won't work", the rellie said. "Bloody will", my father muttered, "always worked before". So they put the 'reconditioned' pump together but the sparkplug needed replacing. "Hang on, put this one in" my father said as he handed him the one he'd taken out of the relic. The pump worked and the rellie dined out on the story for years.

janice

2/10/2010[quote]George, Janice and A Conehead have gone missing you will need to contact them. [/quote] Lyn, sorry I've been awol. I had a wonderful time 15 years back when I younger and fitter building a very large garden which paid me back when it became the district's champion garden. Then the drought took its toll and I discovered the size of it was beyond me to maintain. Then the drought broke, the weeds and pasture grasses flourished. Now Spring has sprung to reveal the flowering trees and spring annuals I'd forgotten used to be there, putting a blaze of colour everywhere I look. So, I became inspired to get back to fitness and do some garden downsizing which means I'm spending every ounce of energy I possess to claim back as much as my garden as I can. It will never be a champion garden again but it will be a garden I can enjoy. :)

janice

2/10/2010Some of you may like to read some of the stories I've written http://www.anzwers.org/free/janice/

Lyn

2/10/2010Hi Janice Thankyou for taking time to comment, when I said gone missing, I meant in that in a nice way, I didn't want to leave you out, we do miss you. Norman K is gathering an hilarious, pretend group together, under the banner of "Right to Rule Over What's Left", he has suggested we may have headlines like "The New Political Force - The Leftovers of The Australian Tea Party". Norman k's Comments above a must read for you Janice. Thankyou for telling us about your garden, sounds just lovely to see all those flowers popping up that you had forgotten about, isn't spring just a wonderful time of the year. Congratulations on once having the district's champion garden, Janice, you must have worked very hard, I hope you will be able to make a nicer smaller garden, but don't knock yourself out over it will you. Cheers for now

Lyn

2/10/2010Hi again Janice, I just finished my reply comment to you and it has crossed over with your link to your stories. Janice, how wonderful, thankyou so much for giving us the link to your stories, you are amazing, quiet, modest, sweetie, and you belong to "The Political sword, wow! lucky us. I can't wait to read them all, fantastic.

janice

2/10/2010NormanK, count me in as well. Dunno how useful I will be though I can make a good cup of coffee.

Ad astra reply

2/10/2010janice Thank you for your response to my Hughenden encounter with John, and for sharing with us your amazing stories and poignant poems, so beautifully composed, so reflective of your experience, written so much from the heart. Your talent graces [i]The Political Sword[/i], to which you have been contributing from the very beginning over two years ago when I wrote my first post on Possum Pollytics’ ‘Possum Box’. What an asset you are.

Lyn

2/10/2010Hi Ad and Your Lovely Wife So nice to see your smiling gravatar appear again tonight, thankyou from all of us, for taking time out to tell us how you are travelling. Everybody enjoyed the little story about the nice friendly garage man that helped you. I hope you have enjoyed the comments on the Political Sword our contributors are very talented, you would agree, they, make this blog the best and most interesting place to be on the internet. Take care

NormanK

2/10/2010janice Coffee will get me every time. Seeing as how you were born and bred in the real bush, I'm sure your noggin is chock-a-block full of wisdom which any movement, no matter how fanciful, would be well-advised to exploit to the fullest. Thank-you for trusting us with your stories and poems. It is my intention to dole them out to myself one at a time like good Belgian chocolate.

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/10/2010NormanK, Thank you for your kind offer to join the hascent political party under jj's personage(I'm sure he'd just love people to look up to him on his pedestal). However, regretfully, I must decline your kind offer. I am an Aquarian, and as such a contrarian through and through. Hence, if you don't mind I'd like to maintain my position on the sidelines chanting, "Yah! Boo! Sucks!". :) Cheers, HS

Lyn

3/10/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]What happened in Canberra this week, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless[/i] If Green was an old-fashioned journalist he would have realised that Pyne was not a minister, and hence did not warrant the attention http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/ [i]How the media poison the well of public debate, Tim Dunlop, BSides[/i] Clearly, if news organisations are openly biased, and that ends up affecting how people vote, then there is an issue. http://tjd.posterous.com/how-the-media-poison-the-well-of-public-debat#more [i]The Real Price of Carbon, Ashghebranious, Ash's to Ashes[/i] My opinion is the Carbon Price will not be as devastating to energy companies as the Leader of the Opposition claims. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com:80/2010/10/03/the-real-price-of-carbon/ [i]Rehabilitating Rudd and Turnbull by John Warhurst , Homepage Daily[/i] The short term goal is to reduce the NBN to such tatters that the two rural Independents desert the Government for the Opposition. http://www.homepagedaily.com/Pages/article10726-rehabilitating-rudd-and-turnbull-by-john-warhurst.aspx [i]Conroy & Intel understand each other, Delimiter[/i] “This MOU will enable Australia to benefit from Intel’s global experiences in using high speed broadband in areas such as health, education, business and environmental management,” Conroy said. http://delimiter.com.au/category/1news/ [i]Armadale by - election live, William Bowe, The Poll Bludger[/i] Given the apparent certainty of a Labor win, the points of interest are how their primary vote bears up, http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/ [i]Being outted in Australian Society, Kate Doak[/i] “Grogs Gamut” was “outted” earlier this week by James Massola, who writes the “Capital Circle” column for “The Australian” Now if you listen closely to the recording, nearly every time James Massola said something Latika Bourke was in complete agreement. http://dailydose.us/2010/10/02/kates-corner-being-outted-in-aussie-society/ [i]Woken by gloomy pundits and the crowing of a rooster , Mike Carlton, National Times[/i] Swaggering into the House on Wednesday with that [b]peculiar gait somewhere between Anthony Mundine and a Disney duck, he exuded aggression[/b]. http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/politics/woken-by-gloomy-pundits-and-the-crowing-of-a-rooster-20101001-160zt.html [quote]trumps Ms Gillard's for importance and prestige[/quote] OH! YEH: Tony Abbott will face a tough leadership test when he return home from a UK visit , Simon Kearney, Herald Sun perception, Mr Abbott's trip trumps Ms Gillard's for importance and prestige. It will boost his foreign policy and economic credentials. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/tony-abbott-will-face-a-tough-leadership-test-when-he-return-home-from-a-uk-visit/story-e6frfhqf-1225933295701

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/10/2010NormanK, You left George Pike out of your crew. Surely he would be the Captain of the Good Ship 'jj'? :)

NormanK

3/10/2010Hillbilly There are always a couple of hold-outs and I figured you would be one. Fancy using astrology as an excuse. Poor form. I'm a Leo and therefore could never be a follower - boy am I conflicted. You described us as "hascent" and I can't find a definition for it. Variation of nascent perhaps? Your inalienable right to stay on the sidelines and heckle has never been under question. As for George, we only take volunteers and he has yet to stick up his hand. We are holding his position as Chief Wrecker of Boats should he choose to join us. As you can see from earlier posts, this is the area of greatest concern to us since there will be a public expectation for us to act swiftly and decisively. I am in favour of the application (judiciously) of a couple of torpedoes but of course this decision will be up to the Caucus of the Movement and ultimately jj who is our Dictator Elect.

George Pike

3/10/2010I'm sorry NormanK but I'm afraid I'm beyond tossing my lot in with the likes of Fraulien SS...sorry jj and her compatriot, Herr Crispy! I know even Hitler himself tried in vain to join the lefties before he was cornered by the nazis, but I'm truly not in pursuit of such ignominious glory...I'll battle along in my rags and keep my integrity intact. It is going to be very hard for AA, Lyn, HS and I to defend the patch against such formidable penmanship, now that you have sided with the enemy...but we will prevail...and I feel we may even have the combined strength to pull you all back from your folly before you don the swastikas and fall into that same chasm of evil that has taken such a strong grasp upon the poor lost souls of Sir Crispy and jj.

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/10/2010NormanK, Of course I meant 'nascent',silly! :) The 'h' and the 'n' are above each other on the keyboard and I forgot to preview my words. Although I could work up a meaning for 'hascent', if you want? How about, 'aiming high from the beginning'? As 'jj' would, of course, being a 'True Believer' in anything the Coalition says or does. Thus were he/she to start his/her own party then on Day 1 we would all, should we join it, have to have no qualms about believing everything he/she told us to believe! Aim for the heights of Coalition thought purity, or go home!

Hillbilly Skeleton

3/10/2010Has anyone else read 'The Age''s Editorial today? It's worth it, and good to see some editors taking the 'new paradigm' under their wings: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/editorial/boats-would-stop-if-afghanistan-were-safe-20101001-160zd.html

NormanK

3/10/2010George Pike Your position is duly noted and to be honest I would have been very surprised had you taken the Office of Chief Wrecker of Boats given your love of all things nautical. I suspect the movement has reached its zenith and all future attempts to squeeze humour from it will produce a poor return on investment although I am still holding out hope for a National Anthem from AC. It has helped me to purge the toxins of the last few months and I thank those who came along for the ride and apologise to those who have had to sit through our little game. A small note (I must stress that I am not being adversarial), lumping Sir Ian in with jj is a bit unkind. Sir Ian speaks with a very sharp intellect and is definitely his own person and quite willing to pour scorn on all who come within range regardless of their politics. I may disagree vehemently with his comments but at least they are coming from his own brain. On the other hand, I affectionately think of jj as "cut'n'paste", devoid of original thought. Doubling back on myself, I didn't know that Hitler tried to be a lefty. That could put his actions into a new perspective although if you concede, as some historians seem to, that philosophically he was as mad as a cut snake, then it doesn't really matter what his roots were, does it?

Patricia WA

3/10/2010[quote]The Right to Rule Over the Left Party. [/quote] There’s a movement in the nation; the word is doing all the rounds. TPS has heard of it from Norman K. Bloggers flock to join him to discuss their common grounds: The ‘T’ bagging potential of jj! Once latte lapping lefties are now bowing to this ‘Power Of (T)one!’ Ad Astra should not feel bereft. jj may lead The ‘T’ Party, but real man of the hour Is ‘Tone’ whose trust in his own Right to Rule is all that he has left,

Ad astra reply

3/10/2010A delightful piece by HillbillySkeleton has just been posted, based on her recent visit to Federal Parliament. Enjoy, and do note her sage advice at the end. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2010/10/03/The-Political-Theatre-of-the-Absurd.aspx I'll leave this post open for a while to enable your intriguing dialogue to continue.

helpwomans.ru

8/10/2010Pingback from helpwomans.ru декларация розена « Эхо блогосферы
I have two politicians and add 2 more; how many are there?