Gillard’s Men Problem

Gillard’s gender gap is man-made, and Abbott’s is all of his own making. There are many reasons why voters might dislike Julia Gillard or Tony Abbott that have nothing to do with their gender. But there has been a lot of commentary recently about Abbott's 'women problem', evidenced by a widening gap between his approval ratings with women as compared to men. The LNP is blaming this problem on a supposed campaign by Labor members Nicola Roxon, Tanya Plibersek and Deb O'Neill. Liberal member Kelly O'Dwyer inelegantly called this group a 'hand bag hit squad' when lashing out at them in parliament this week. Simon Benson wrote in the Telegraph that:

“All three have led the campaign to paint the Opposition leader Tony Abbott as a misogynist”.

What seems to have escaped the Coalition's attention, and that of journalists reporting this news, is that female voters' attitude to Tony Abbott has not been formed by anything recently said by senior Labor women. Nor has it been generated by David Marr's article in The Monthly in which he reveals that Abbott was an intimidating bully towards a female student at university. Women voters knew it already. When hearing this news story, Australian females did not collectively say 'well that's interesting, I didn't know Abbott's character was like that’. They collectively said 'I always knew he was a bully and had a problem with women, and now here is more unequivocal proof'. It also didn't help Abbott's cause that he denied the event occurred, thereby labeling the female victim as a liar. Doesn't this resonate with Abbott's campaign to paint Gillard as a liar in order to discredit her? Female voters have had a long time to get to know Abbott, and it's not just the way he walks or his inherent 'blokiness' that turns them off. It's because he says things like this:

“I think there does need to be give and take on both sides, and this idea that sex is kind of a woman’s right to absolutely withhold, just as the idea that sex is a man’s right to demand I think they are both… they both need to be moderated, so to speak.”

or this:

“I think it would be folly to expect that women will ever dominate or even approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons.”

Angela Shanahan is right when she wrote in The Australian that:

“Women are not fools at the ballot box: they vote for policies, not a leader's personality” (fire-walled of course).

But she fails to connect this argument with the point that females don't like Abbott because they know instinctively that a man who holds such attitudes about women (that is, his personality), will not, as a leader, develop policies that promote women's rights and interests. Furthermore, since Abbott tells voters so little about his future plans, women are left to judge for themselves what his policies might be, based on his personality.

The latest polls have highlighted that female voters’ perception of Abbott as a sexist bully is increasingly affecting their voting intentions. In this article Michelle Grattan reports that:

“Tony Abbott is seen as being significantly more arrogant, narrow-minded, intolerant, and aggressive than Julia Gillard, in a new poll underlining the Opposition Leader's image problem.”

In Grattan's article about the poll results on Monday, it is reported that:

“In an important finding in light of claims about Mr Abbott having problems with women and an allegation of intimidatory behaviour towards a fellow student in 1977, he is 12 points behind as preferred PM among women, but leads by 5 points among men.”

If Abbott's 12 point deficit among women is evidence of the situation outlined above, how can we explain Abbott being 5 points ahead among men? Easy. It’s because Gillard is 5 points down with men. So what are the reasons for Gillard’s gender gap?

Anne Summers’s recent speech: Her Rights at Work. The Political Persecution of Australia's First Female Prime Minister' might go some way to explaining Gillard's 'problem' with male voters. In this speech, Summers examines what she describes as:

“the sexist and discriminatory treatment of Australia’s first female prime minister by the Opposition and by some elements in Australian society.”

She describes a campaign that is:

“the deliberate sabotaging of the prime minister by political enemies, who include people within her own party, and who are using an array of weapons which include personal denigration, some of it of a sexual or gendered nature, to undermine her and erode her authority.”

I agree that such a campaign has been waged against Gillard. All the misogynistic abuse directed at her, detailed in Summers’s appendix to her speech, is horrifying. I also agree that this campaign aims to undermine and erode Gillard's authority, and has reduced her popularity amongst some men.

Part of the reason why Summers’s argument is so shocking is that we, as Australians, have to come to terms with the behaviour of these people, mostly men, who justify their revolting antics by saying they have free speech and can use this right to show their hatred of our Prime Minister. Even though women dislike Abbott, this has not produced the sort of vile response that male hatred of Gillard has. I am not sure if the sub header in this Telegraph piece has a typo, but if it was deliberate, it speaks volumes. The main headline reads:

“Male voters turning off Prime Minister Julia Gillard according to pollsters.”

The subheading says something similar, apart from one very important word.

“Julia Gillard has a man problem. As the popularity of our first female prime minister plummets, government insiders fear men are turning on Ms Gillard.”

Turning 'on' Ms Gillard. There is a lot of evidence that male voters don't just voice their opinions at the ballot box by turning 'off' a leader, in the way that women are turning off Abbott. Some male voters have turned 'on' her as part of the misogynist campaign described by Summers.

But does this fully account for the poll results? Unfortunately, no.

There are many male voters who are so unengaged with politics generally that they are unlikely to be directly influenced by the specifics of the misogynist campaign against Gillard. These are people who wouldn't have taken much notice of political media reportage, Tony Abbott's door stops, Facebook hate groups and Alan Jones anti-carbon tax rallies. Yet they still contribute to Gillard's poor standing in the polls amongst men. This leads me, sadly, to conclude that there are still many Australian men who are inherently misogynist and just not comfortable with a female in charge.

This situation is not unique to Gillard or Australia. An article in the New Zealand Herald reports on the polls in the lead up to the 2008 New Zealand election. The then Prime Minister, Labor's Helen Clark, was far more unpopular with men than her rival, National John Key:

“A gender breakdown of the poll reveals that National has 60.6 per cent support among males, miles ahead of Labour's 24.7.”

That's quite a gender gap! This article about the Democratic primaries race between Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama, discusses the influence of race versus gender in terms of their effect on voters, and concludes:

“one fact is clear. The primary data indicates that “more Americans see gender as more of a barrier in presidential politics than race”.”

Julia Gillard quipped to Barack Obama:

“you think it's tough being African-American? Try being me. Try being an atheist, childless, single woman as prime minister.”

It seems she is correct, her position is more difficult.

Could people argue that Abbott’s problem with women is similar to Gillard’s problem with men, and therefore the voting preferences cancel each other out? Could they say that this is simply a case of women voting for a female and men voting for a male? I don’t believe so. It’s not just because Abbott is a man that women don’t like him. It is because he is a horrible and sexist man. However, the difference in negative perceptions of Gillard amongst male voters as compared with woman voters can’t be blamed on sexism on her part, as nothing she has ever said or done has given the slightest ammunition to the idea that she unfairly discriminates based on gender. Abbott's disadvantage with female voters is self-inflicted, but Gillard's disadvantage with male voters appears to be innate, because she was born female.


The Political Sword welcomes a new original contributor, Victoria Rollison, the author of this piece.

She is 31 years old and lives in Adelaide with her fiancé and three cats. She enjoys current affairs, politics, reading, renovating houses, watching football, going to movies and most importantly…. writing! She works in the marketing/communications field and has many other community and social commitments in her life, but still finds plenty of time to write.

She runs her own blogsite: http://victoriarollison.com This piece will also appear on her blogsite. You can follow her on Twitter @Vic_Rollison


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23/09/2012Victoria Welcome to [i]The Political Sword[/i] family of authors, and for this most interesting and challenging piece. We look forward to more of your contributions. I agree with your analysis. Sadly, I too believe that there are many men out there who cannot accept that a female is occupying the top political post in this nation, and is doing the job well. Many other nations have had female leaders for years and seem to accept them as the norm, but for some Australian males, it seems a bridge too far. It’s not just some of the guys at the pub who find having a female leader anathema; many leading businessmen and small business owners seem to have the same prejudice, if one can judge from their words and gestures as seen on TV news clips. Whether another twelve months is long enough for PM Gillard to ‘prove herself’ to these skeptical men, only time will tell. Alan Jones believes women in high places are ‘destroying the joint’; I wonder how many followers he has? Thank you for your thought-provoking piece.

Marilyn

23/09/2012Gillard is just as big a thug as Abbott, she is trading human beings for god's sake, persecuting the gays and lesbians among us for reasons no-one understands, punishing single parents by cutting payments and destroying the lives of thousands of refugees for no reason. She is John Howard in drag only more vicious so give it up. Victoria and all these other silly women don't know what they are talking about, we women don't have to defend people just because they are women, that was the purpose of the revolution.

mikey

23/09/2012leadership challenge after leadership challenge until she shows us her penis, says the media. ...until now! the turnaround in the polls has been stunningly quick. either newman opened a can of maggots or the media is fudging the polls and decided abbott doesn't have a penis either.

Lyn

23/09/2012Hi Victoria Well aren’t we just the luckiest blog. It really is an honour to have you here Victoria. Thankyou millions for writing on “The Political Sword” our readers will be delighted, and I can see a big smile on Ad Astra’s face. “ Kelly O'Dwyer inelegantly called this group a 'hand bag hit squad” I have been upset over this childish idiotic remark by KO’D, your article has highlighted the mentality & stupidity helping me to see it for what it is. I couldn’t agree with you more: “Abbott's disadvantage with female voters is self-inflicted” Bye for now Victoria, I’ll be back :):):)

Möbius Ecko

23/09/2012Great piece. Thank you. I don't need to say anymore.

jane

23/09/2012Great post Victoria. It certainly seems that [b]some[/b] Australian males have a big problem with a woman in authority, but not all, as evidenced by commenters here and in other blogs like Café Whispers.

Shirley

23/09/2012Thank you Victoria, I agree with analysis. [i]Gillard's disadvantage with male voters appears to be innate, because she was born female[/i]. I also think her childless status is a challenge for a few men. I have heard a few comment on that saying it is "not right" "not normal" and linking it to feminism. Would love to see some uni pick this up as a research subject.

Patriciawa

23/09/2012Thanks, Victoria, it's always good to read your stuff and now to welcome you here! The Australian Graduate School of Management agree with you that double standards apply when it comes to judging our Prime Minister's performance. They gave her a big tick of approval on this year's International Women's Day. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-08/gillard27s-performance-as-female-pm/3875502 That double standard applies to women in management and leadership generally, of course, but [u]the[/u] top job of running the country would be a particularly difficult one to hold for the first time. [quote] "There is definitely clear evidence that we judge women against male criteria in terms of leadership attributes and so that misjudgement, often about superficial things, gets in the way of us consciously and unconsciously recognising what she's done really well." [/quote] Good to see the recent trend in polls towards even a grudging recognition of her strengths and particularly her courage under fire from Abbott and his hoons. We here at TPS have always admired her many qualities, and it was great to have our very high opinion of her confirmed on that special day, and to mark it with a pome. On International Women’s Day Finally we’ve had someone say Our Prime Minister is Okay! She’s been assessed as Triple A! She’s always admired overseas For how easily she shoots the breeze With little folk and the big cheese. At last she is the Oz bees knees! Our own experts, who ought to know, Have told us that she’s all the go With public servants. They’re aglow. Now here’s a report which confirms it’s so. She alarms the Coalition, Our hysterical Opposition, Who share mad Tony’s premonition That she’s done for his ambition. That’s why she’s praised by Independents, Not just her ALP attendants. In future times our descendants Will read of the glorious Gillard ascendance!

nasking

23/09/2012 Top post Victoria...ya sure put things into perspective. I reckon there are alot of Aussie guys who have probs with a woman being in charge...I think I mighta years and years ago... I reckon we are brought up to believe the world should revolve around us. And we are better suited for leadership and promotion...it's kind of a divine right-like thing...Mum said "You're the best son, oneday you'll be prime minister/sports star/astronaut etc...can I get you your favourite dessert/snack?"... and with that plenty of blokes assume the world is their oyster...women should play the role of Mummy, serve them, spoil them/us... or act like the sexy chic on TV and in the mag under their bed... and the thought of a woman being their governor/manager/head honcho/commander-in-chief/prime minister never enters their/our 'thinking about her boobs, arse/ass, great dessert, big dripping with taste meal every 5 secs minds... unless the image of the female boss is porno-like. Gives ya a good idea why so many women portraying leaders, managers etc in past films and TV series had to reveal legs, swish their hair, pout. Until they/we are confronted with a real choice...in real life. Frankly, I reckon alot of men are adaptable...after awhile we work out what's good for us...who makes a good leader...and who is just plain weird and dangerous. It didn't take me long to work out Abbott is weird and dangerous. And he has alot of weird, extreme supporters...kinda types ya thought were bullies or just anally retentive weirdos at school... some who say things that are downright dangerous for the economy. He sure knows how to pick 'em. Julia in my mind is the best option. Gutsy lady. Growing in the job. Comes across to me like a uni lefty who grew up and matured into a centrist...pragmatic...gets the job done. Bit of a female Hawk. Besides, she deserves an outright win for the amount of useful legislation she's pushed thru... Women in this country deserve equal rights...and to be motivated...there's been alot of men win elections outright in a row... surely we men can ignore the Allan Jones and Murdoch empire hissy fits and give this gutsy lady another go. Gillard's got my vote. Thnx for gettin' me thinkin' Victoria. I was feelin' mentally lazy the last coupla days...bloody tooth extraction and antibiotics and pain killers knocked me for six. And tension related to my wife's upcoming op. Apologies if I missed some comments directed at me...will try to catchup. BTW, Kelly O'Dwyer obviously has been co-opted by the misogynists and those who have problems with strong women. You'd think she'd know better considering the history of the struggle. I got off my mental butt and read the history of women's rights, empowerment, the franchise/vote, in the workplace, during war etc. It was worth it. Blew my mind. N'

Gravel

23/09/2012Victoria Thank you for this topic. I remember when Julia first ascended to the Priministership, her personal polling showed a great score, then there was a concerted effort in the media saying she is only popular with women, wtte they don't care about policies or stuff, just that she is a woman. Her polling dropped quite a bit,(before the 2010 election campaign) and I always felt it was the MSM making women feel guilty for liking and voting for another woman, as though it was a bad thing to do. As you have written, there has been a concerted effort to degrade her both overtly and covertly as most of it has been, but with other prominent women putting enough denigration out there every now and then. I won't name two of them but they are women whom a lot of other women admire. And no, they aren't in the NLP, but I'm sure would be huge backers of them.

Tom of Melbourne

23/09/2012Howard lost the confidence of the electorate when people formed the opinion that he often lied. Why should Gillard be treated differently? People simply don’t like liars regardless of whether they are men or women.

bilko

23/09/2012Victoria, A fine piece, Julia has risen well above the mob whilst Abbott wallows with the bogans and I still maintain he will never achieve the position Julia now holds. They are like chalk and cheese. He has reached peak Abbott, it is all down hill from here. I have worked for both male and female bosses and it has never been a problem. Why my wife of 50 years says I am the boss in our house and I have her permission to say so. Many a man would have folded under the onslaught she has endured. Abbott goes wobbly after a couple of mild questions, he would be ooze now if he had to endure a month let alone 2+years. May the force be with us all.

Vic_Rollison

23/09/2012Tom of Melbourne, when you say Gillard has 'lied' I'm guessing you are referring to her change in policy over the Carbon Price. I'm guessing you also are choosing to ignore the reason for this change in policy - the fact that Gillard was unexpectedly in a minority government and had to negotiate a deal with the Greens, which meant bringing in a Carbon Price, followed by an ETS. It's this attitude in our society towards this so called 'lie' which is a perfect example of the difference between a woman changing a policy position and a man doing the same thing. Tony Abbott has changed his policy positions numerous times throughout his political career. The government he was in supported an ETS, and he personally advocated a carbon tax. Look at his position on Work Choices – he was all for it during the 2007 election campaign and as soon as it became unpopular, it was “dead buried and cremated”. So was he ‘lying’ when he said he supported it in the first place, or did situations change and he therefore changed his position? He has also admitted that his words can't be taken as 'gospel' unless he is reading from a carefully scripted statement. More recently he has admitted to ‘exaggerating’ the effect of the Carbon Price with his negative fear mongering (in other words, lied). He is now also being revealed as a liar in relation to his statement that he didn't intimidate at woman at university by punching a wall next to her head. First he says 'I can't recall' and then he says 'it didn't happen'. One of these statements must be a lie. Have you seen Abbott subject to the sort of hysteria around these mistruths? No? Why not? Is it because Gillard changed her mind about the Carbon Price or is it because you are part of the very campaign that I have written about in my article?

nasking

23/09/2012 Tony Abbott is the biggest liar in politics. He doesn't even offer up his real agenda. His team's budget costings has a great big black hole. Tom of Melbourne above is just another exaggerator like the squealing hissy fitter Allan Jones. As for lies...I can't think of one politician who hasn't been forced to make a course correction. Howard lied many times including children overboard...he still won elections. No politician is pure as driven snow. Howard lost because his govt had been in 12 years...and he refused to handover to a new team. And he went too far and brought in WorkChoices. His Old Guard Liberals haven't learnt their lesson...they and Allan Jones and the Murdoch empire are still interfering...getting things wrong...bringing in extremists. I imagine it was them got rid of Turnbull. No real Liberal party anymore. Just a confused, desperate motley crew on the downward spiral. With a leader who doesn't let his people have a vote on important social issues. Reminds me of the old East German commies run by Stasi...or Stalinists...or the Catholic church dictated to from the out of touch Vatican. Not real Liberals. Who once combined promotion of business and markets with expansion of women's rights and pursuance of a cooler social agenda. That's not Tony Abbott's mutant Liberal/One Nation/Tea party/Stasi/Stalinist/Santamaria-like outfit. N'

nasking

23/09/2012 [b]Bob Ellis: Tony Abbott is finished[/b] [b]For about eight days now, Tony Abbott has been in worsening trouble, and he has no hope any more of being Prime Minister, writes Bob Ellis.[/b] [quote]When Wayne Swan attacked the Tea Party as economic vandals, it would have been wise for Abbott’s Liberals to stay silent. But they did not, execrating Swanny for commenting on a foreign election and not concentrating on his own patch, and on the economy here. This aligned them with the Tea Party Republicans, an already discredited bunch of loons, and with Romney, a loser, and, by any measure, a stupid man. Abbott should have repudiated his ’47 percent’ nonsense, but he did not. And, when Cory Bernardi, fumbling, seemed to compare gay marriage with wedlock of humans and farmyard animals, he should not have merely sacked him, he should have allowed the Liberals a conscience vote on one or other (he need only have picked one) of the gay marriage bills coming up in parliament last week.[/quote] much more here: http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/bob-ellis-tony-abbott-is-finished/ Thnx to the brill Lyn and others for top links and useful observations. I reckon it will be Turnbull as leader running against a strong PM Gillard/Swan team in 2016...after Abbott loses bigtime. N'

Vic_Rollison

23/09/2012Thanks you everyone for all the lovely positive comments. I wanted you to know that I do realise that there are many fantastic Australian men who would never be threatened by a women in charge. Unfortunately there are not enough of you, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't congratulate those who do their best to support Gillard at every opportunity!

uriah

23/09/2012Thanks Victoria for your thought provoking article.It is apparent to anyone who looks closely that our courageous female PM Gillard has far superior leadership qualities than our socially backward male LOTO Mr Abbott.I would take issue with Mr Abbotts comments re women being unable to do many things because of their physiology.Abbott just does not get it.Its not about physiology he shuold read Dr Martin Luther Kings great speech which advises that people should be judged by the content of their character.History is littered with many examples of great female leaders one of whom was Elizabeth of England who reigned over what is known as The Golden Age and who arguably was the most influential individual in setting in place the English naval tradition without which Australia would never have existed.There you go boys if it wasnt for a woman you woulnt be here!!! PS Elizabeth was childless and a red head-not bad eh.

jane

23/09/2012Shirley @4.56pm, the PM's decision not to have children certainly seems to have upset some men. We can all recall Bill Heffernan's rant about her being child less and unmarried and more recently David Farley calling her "an unproductive old cow". Good on her, I say. There's 7bn+ humans on this planet. It's a pity a few billion haven't made the same decision as the PM. It's not like there's a huge shortage of humans. I'm sure the planet would be very grateful.

Marilyn

23/09/2012Rubbish, Amanda Vanstone does not have kids, nor does Julie Bishop. No-one cares if Gillard doesn't have kids except for juvenile responders. If Gillard is a role model for decency though then if there is a god he better help us. She is a racist bigot, why don't you fools actually analyse that fact. Women should be equal you say, rich mothers get to stay home but single mothers are punished worse by Gillard than even John Howard, refugee women are treated even worse than refugee men, she is flogging children to a place that has no law. For god's sake you stupid children, grow up. Because the blood is on the hands of morons who cannot see the facts past their own bias.

jane

23/09/2012Nas' @5.36pm, couldn't agree more. Sorry to read that your fangs are giving you grief. Dental care in this country is out of reach for a lot of people with serious health consequences. Fortunately, this government seems to understand and is going to do something about it. And they've made it public. My husband has been diabetic for 10 years and recently had to have dentures. Not once did anyone in the health industry advise us of the Howard government's dental scheme.

nasking

23/09/2012 jane, weird eh? I bet alot of the well-off got told about that dental scheme tho. We didn't hear about it here in Logan, QLD...at least noone I spoke to. At least this govt is proudly pushing its upcoming program...and the one it put in or teens etc. Sorry to hear about yer hubbies probs...hope he's feeling better now. Shame he had to lose all his teeth tho. N'

nasking

23/09/2012 Interesting article @ The Monthly by Christine Wallace: [quote]The wounded leader who refuses to lie down and die is not without precedent in Australian national politics. Robert Menzies and John Howard come to mind. But it’s hard to find a leader who has lost as much political blood as Julia Gillard and survived. And yet, in the last month or two, she appears to have staunched the bleeding, steadied and even begun to regain strength. Gillard is a tough politician – flawed, yes, but undeniably tough. Most prime ministers have a hyena tearing at their belly as they dash across the political landscape. Gillard has not one, but many. As well as Tony Abbott, there is Kevin Rudd the internal assassin, Rupert Murdoch with his dominance of the local print media, and a clutch of snapping, snarling commentators, bloggers and shock-jocks – a veritable pack of scavengers and would-be predators all. Each day Gillard survives makes it more likely that she’ll make it to the election. Abbott and Rudd both know this. If an ‘ordinary’ prime minister (as opposed to a ‘natural’, or someone who is exceptionally talented or well prepared) can stay in the job for long enough, he or she may well learn how to do it. At autumn’s end Gillard’s position looked so shaky that her political longevity was being counted in days. Now, by early spring, many in Parliament House wonder whether Gillard may have learnt enough to make her prime ministership work. Where does the steel come from? Gillard is a secure person, and that’s a good start. Her early family life was exceptionally warm. Getting an education and getting ahead were the keynotes in a household that, while British in origin, was classically ‘migrant’ in its outlook and values. Work hard, get ahead, don’t give up, compete. Gillard grew up in a virtual matriarchy in which her mother, Moira (whom I met in the course of researching Gillard’s life some years ago), was a loving but driving personality, and a physically and psychologically confident woman. Gillard’s father, John, worked long hours and was often absent, but nevertheless lavished on her the attention and encouragement traditionally directed to sons – there was no brother to compete for it. Educated in Adelaide state schools during the salad days of Dunstan and Whitlam, Gillard has always seen herself as a person competing hard, not a woman competing hard, and that’s meant less psychological baggage.[/quote] Much more here: http://www.themonthly.com.au/comment-gillard-and-her-attackers-christine-wallace-6168 Incrementally moving forward...that's Julia. Determined and gutsy as. N'

nasking

23/09/2012 KHTAGH, thnx heaps for the supportive comment on the last beaut thread by AC...good onya for giving the excess fruit, veges and free range eggs to help the needy. Two good karma thumbs up. :) Thnx Lyn too. Yer a sweetie. :) N'

Tom of Melbourne

23/09/2012Vic_Rollison - [i]’ I'm guessing you are referring to her change in policy over the Carbon Price[/i]” There’s really no need to rely on the carbon tax. Here are a few examples of Gillard’s duplicity. • Made an unconditional, written agreement with Wilkie (which delivered the Lodge to her). It wasn’t a “best endeavours” commitment. Either Gillard was dishonest when she made the agreement or she was dishonest when she broke it. She didn’t even deliver the ALP. • Politicised the Asylum seeker debate - “another boat, another policy failure”. By any measure, including her own, she is a dishonest failure. • “I was young & naïve”. She was neither; she was an experienced, middle-aged professional woman. • “The carbon reform will fail without community consensus”, so proposed community consultation. She made a political expedient commitment to win electoral favour, and broke it to with political favour. Gillard has a history of personal and political duplicity. There is no need to rely on the [i] no carbon tax[/i] commitment to illustrate this. When she knifed Rudd, the ALP was 52-48 in 2PP and Gillard said, “the government had lost its way”. She’s had them wandering around n a fog ever since.

DMW

23/09/2012Thanks for the post Victoria, you have covered the ground pretty darned good. There is one aspect that I have been pondering and it is embodied in Bishop J. There are many on the Liberal/National side who, apart from considering themselves the only true governing party, believe they the true groundbreakers having the first woman elected (Edith Cowan), the first Indigenous Australian elected (Neville Bonner), the first woman member of cabinet (Dame Enid Lyons as Vice President of the Executive Council) and Dame Margaret Guilfoyle who was the first Australian woman to be appointed to a Cabinet portfolio. There is a pretty good synopsis of [b]Australian women in politics[/b] @ australia.gov.au http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/australian-story/austn-women-in-politics I reckon that there are good number of Liberal Party members who are mightly peeved that the Labor Party 'one upped them' and elected the first woman as Prime Minister of Australia. J Bishop in particular is mighty angry and exrtaordinarily jealous of Ms Gillard and should be told in no uncertain terms that is one of her big problems. Being 'green with envy' can do funny things to a person.

nasking

23/09/2012 [b]has a history of personal and political duplicity.[/b] Pot calling the kettle black. Still waiting for that balanced assessment ToM. Criticism of Abbott and Coalition...considering you purport to be a Democrat. N'

Patriciawa

23/09/2012Thanks for the Christine Wallace link, nasking. Interesting. Not sure that I agree with her sweeping statement that Julia Gillard is well practised in the arts of political bastardry without more specific detail. I'm inclined to believe that the contrary is more likely and explains the extraordinary level of personal loyalty she enjoys among those who work with her.

jane

23/09/2012Nas', that's diabetes, I guess. One of the nastiest and rottenest chronic diseases going. It affects every area of physical health and saps it, as you would know, having been afflicted yourself. I think a lot of people don't realise it is as serious and life threatening these days, because treatment is so readily available and effective, that they rarely or never witness its debilitating and deadly consequences. Yes, you're wise not to rely on the carbon tax meme, ToM, because you'd be shown up as a liar. You can't pretend you have no knowledge of Gillard's election eve statement, or that the legislation imposes a price on carbon emissions by the 500 biggest emitters which will transition to an ETS in 2015. So, no carbon tax and no broken promise. And even Wilkie has acknowledged that his legislation hasn't got a snowball's while Abbott is LOTO. You must be getting sick of that brick wall by now.

DMW

23/09/2012Something interesting to ponder to start a new week [b]Organization has its effects[/b] Seth Godin @SethsBlog [i]If you take a group of people, a subgroup of the larger population, and expose them to focused messages again and again, you will start to change their point of view. If you augment those messages with exposure to other members of the group, the messages will begin to have ever more impact. If the group becomes aligned, and it starts acting like a tribe, those messages will become self-reinforcing. And finally, if you anoint and reward leaders of this tribe, single them out for positive attention because of the way your message resonated with them, it will become fully baked in. That's a lot of power. Probably too much for the selfish marketer, lobbyist or demagogue to have at his disposal.[/i] http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2012/09/organization-has-its-effects.html Quoted in full so no need to follow the link. Hmmm, groupthink?, partisan politics?, footy fanatics?, so many possibilities that haunt the intertubes?

Wake Up

23/09/2012Another great article to add to the collection, and the usual thought provoking comments and links............ apart from the usual trolls (Marilyn and Tom) whose submissions I just scroll past as they are only ever deliberately provocative in a predictably negative way. Why anyone engages with these pathetic trolls is beyond me as it never changes their behaviour and only ever encourages them to continue. It should be more than obvious by now that they are not interested in logical and factual debate and that responding will never change their minds or motives. I know it's difficult, I find myself biting my tongue all the time, but please stop reacting to this constant nonsense, ignore it and they will have no power, they will eventually wonder if they are the only ones that can see their own posts. Please, please, please for the sake of your own sanity and mine............. SCROLL THE TROLL

Truth Seeker

23/09/2012Victoria, Good to see you here and well said. Wake up, dito on all points Patricia, nice one. Cheers

NormanK

24/09/2012Victoria Thank-you for this article and welcome to [i]The Political Sword[/i]. I am troubled by this article and others like it because it is so incredibly subjective. I've read it three times now so hopefully I will be able to pinpoint just what is causing my disquiet. A quick disclaimer since we are strangers to each other. I am male, a keen Labor supporter and a huge fan of Julia Gillard and her government. I have contributed here for two and a half years so if I'm a concern troll regular contributors will quickly point that out for you. I say this article is subjective because you take a number of opinion poll ratings and seek to psychoanalyse the respondents' motivations. If the polls were highly detailed and asked searching questions that winkled out some of the nuances regarding individual choices about preferred PM or satisfaction/dissatisfaction ratings then I might give your analysis some credence but they do not. You show your awareness of just how out of focus the poll snapshot is when you say early on: [quote]There are many reasons why voters might dislike Julia Gillard or Tony Abbott that have nothing to do with their gender.[/quote] Good, this is undoubtedly true. However, by the end of the article you have completely abandoned this concession by coming to the conclusion that: [quote]Gillard's disadvantage with male voters appears to be innate, because she was born female.[/quote] You have no empirical evidence upon which to base this contention. You then go on to examine why Abbott is 5 points ahead of Gillard with male voters without making any further reference to or acknowledgement of the 'many reasons why voters might dislike Julia Gillard' apart from the fact that she is a woman. For all that we know, it might have nothing to do with Gillard and everything to do with Abbott. How about if we turn this premise upside down: [quote]If Abbott's 12 point deficit among women is evidence of the situation outlined above, how can we explain Abbott being 5 points ahead among men? Easy. It’s because Gillard is 5 points down with men. So what are the reasons for Gillard’s gender gap?[/quote] So for the sake of argument we will agree that a significant proportion of women might see Abbott as being sexist etc etc and mark him down accordingly. What if the poll difference for Gillard with men is indicative of a significant proportion of men NOT recognising these same flaws in Abbott? What if they prefer Abbott's athleticism over Gillard's perceived sedentary nature? What if they agree with Abbott's male chauvinistic tendencies? Yes, that would be sexist but sexist in favour of Abbott over any other contender who doesn't display these 'male virtues'. There could be so many explanations as to why Abbott is popular with some men that have nothing to do with Gillard being unpopular with them or with Gillard being female. If I am offered the choice of a glass of chocolate-flavoured milk or vanilla-flavoured and I choose the chocolate, it does not automatically follow that I dislike vanilla-flavoured milk. It's just that on this day, at this time I preferred the chocolate. Equally, it could be argued that the gender gap exists because more women are opting for Gillard simply because she is a woman. Is that sexist? Don't get me wrong, I do agree that there is a vicious campaign being waged against Gillard which is focussed on her gender but there are several other relevant points that need to be recognised before we declare them all to be misogynistic. Firstly, every aspect of a politician is fair game in the dirty world of belittling your political opponent. Campbell Newman is copping heaps because of his short stature and military bearing. There is no -ism, to my knowledge, that covers that type of bias against short, ex-army officers. O'Farrell gets more than his fair share of fat jokes. If the PM was blind in one eye she would be getting heaps about that. If she was blonde or exceptionally tall or one-legged that would become the focus of some of the jibes. I am by no means excusing the worst of it but we do have to accept that she is female and some of the lampooning is going to reflect that fact. I put 'Ditch the Witch' in this category even though the author of that sign might not be aware that there are such things as male witches. Secondly, the type of man who resorts to the foul sexist attacks that are being directed at the PM were never going to vote for her anyway. I live in redneck country and the type of male that is referring to the PM as a c*** is not likely to be one who supports making major reforms to the economy or looks kindly on attempts to diminish the equity gap between men's and women's rates of pay for equal work. These are not disaffected Labor supporters, they are dyed-in-the-wool conservatives of the most rabid kind. It seems to me that the contention that you are trying to establish is that there are male Labor voters out there who have deliberately swung their support over to Abbott because they can't bring themselves to support a woman. That's a big call. Or perhaps that there are undecided male voters whose opinion has been swayed against Gillard because these sexist attacks have done their work. Possibly so but no evidence is presented. Now, the real problem that I have when someone draws a correlation between opinion polls and disgusting sexist behaviour is that it confuses the issue. We should all be appalled by the likes of Pickering and Jones who are plainly misogynists and we should be shouting down anyone who contributes to the foul campaign being waged along gender lines against Ms Gillard because it demeans not only her and the office of PM but all women. It is disgusting but it is disgusting in its own right. We should be railing against Abbott & Co with their dog-whistles to the chauvinists in our society. However, it is neither fair nor right to conclude that because Abbott has a five point lead over Gillard with men that somehow a significant proportion of men support this vile abuse or can't reconcile themselves to the idea of a female Prime Minister. It could even be argued that the abuse is garnering some support for Gillard because morally responsible males don't want anything to do with it. My point is that without detailed polling we will never know why it is that respondents have voted in the way that they have. It might have everything to do with a misogynistic campaign of vilification and it might have nothing to do with it. It might be that a significant proportion of men see something they like in Abbott. Humans are strange and fickle creatures. I liken this type of analysis with those who would point to floods brought about by a violent thunderstorm and cry "global warming!" No, it's just a storm and a flood but if you put it together with a whole lot of other empirical data and leave the evaluations to experts in the field then I might be convinced that it is part of global warming. It is just a sexist attack from her enemies and an opinion poll, it is not an indicator that Australian men have a problem with a female PM. Without a good deal more evidence, weighed up by professionals, we have no way of knowing whether that is true or not. In case I get accused of simply defending my gender, I hasten to point out my long-standing contempt for superficial opinion polls and any attempts to draw broad conclusions based on them.

TalkTurkey

24/09/2012 Victoria Welcome to Ad astra's wonderful blog, we are honoured to have you write a thread/threads here, as we are all honoured to be given the opportunity to write here. There are many who think this to be the blogsite with the most gravitas of all. I am in complete agreement with everything you say, perhaps I'm discriminatory about our PM myself because I always write her name *J*U*L*I*A*! I think she is very very special - and I have known Don Dunstan personally, I know what special looks like. There is much to be glad of in the present state of affairs - fat that has now, I hope, been pulled out of the fire. I do believe Abbortt's goose is cooked, (yum, mixed metapors), I think we will win the election and well, and although he has brought such division and angst, I think his aggressive nihilism, misgyny and all the rest of his horrible character traits have immeasurably stiffened our resolve, forced Australia to confront some of its demons, and incidentally grow the power of the 5th Estate beyond all imagining. And much more, more that will only be realised gradually, and not see its full flowering until far into the future. A future we owe to *J*U*L*I*A* herself, more than to any other single individual. Abborttianism is now threadbare for all to behold, right on cue with my predictions, which have always been based on my (as-it-turns-out-correct) reading of the Government's plans. Abbortt's downfall [i]had to happen just now[/i], the MSM has kept him artificially inflated hitherto, and given the hung parliament it was vital to get the Government's legislative agenda through - before it could get to grips with the evil bastard. And so it has, the legislative agenda and the bastard both. It appears to me that many of the Government members have been champing at the bit and are now relishing the opportunity to take the fight to a new stage - with an AFL-metaphorical quarter-and-a-third left to play - but with *J*U*L*I*A* given the whistle to end the game any time within the next 12-14 months. November 2013 sometime is the deadline, but I am predicting September 14 or 21 or 28, with 21 my choice. I too am snuffing the battle with delight, though not entirely without trepidation - but as long as the election campaign does not falter at the last hurdle, it doesn't need to be brilliant, solid and plain will do very well. Thanks again Victoria, and hopefully we may see more such threads from you in the future. Shirley, Mikey, Bilko, Mobius Ecko, Who've I missed, I think you have all been here before, some quite a few times, well there's always more times to come, it's great to see irregulars and we always want more from all Goodwillians. Greetings to all our regulars, gee more rhymes from Patricia, this time all four endings of each stanza rhyming, I think that might be a first. Prose good, rhyme better! (and I am talking about it as a weapon agains the evil lying bastard, that's what patricia and Truth Seeker and NormanK and I write it for, well also to get our feelings about the evil lying bastard off our brains for the time being. But we will get him off our brains for good, and we will feel good in the process, just you wait and see. and to Wake Up, welcome, I don't recall you being here and if you have, my apologies, but anyway I do agree with you about the trolls, I don't reply to them but once, thereafter I sometimes have fun mentioning the ToMs in asides in the third person, Iknow it drives them barmy not being directly replied to. Well they're bent out of shape to start with, barmy might be an improvement. Anyway I do have FUN with TROLLS, and recommend that course as a relaxing and satisfying therapeutic pastime. Great works everyone. We are no longer underdog, not that I thought we were but most did. So chins up Comrades, you know, double the fist, set the jaw, make your eyes to feel like vengeful slits of steel, summon up the blood, we have a great fight on our hands and a mighty Sword is our weapon. I know I've said all that before, well I'll say it more yet, but all everyone reading this, including the Trolls, is now aware that we are well on the way to Victory. Suck it up Trolly-Wallies. I feel good. I feel better than [i]James Brown![/i] :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHN_q6sK6Fk I feel better rnow!

Patriciawa

24/09/2012I agree with much of what you write, NormanK, but not all of it. But one thing is for sure, we do need [i]'a good deal more evidence, weighed up by professionals'[/i] before we can know more precisely how much [i]Gillard's men problem[/i] is about innate Australian male misogyny. For myself I do see Julia Gillard's task as made doubly difficult by her gender, but had she been male she would still have to deal with Rupert Murdoch and News Ltd who did a pretty good job of destroying Kevin Rudd's credibility, ably assisted by himself of course. Bill Shorten, Greg Combet and other likely leadership candidates would have suffered similarly until this Labor government and its carbon and mining taxes and its NBN Co and the unions were quite destroyed, and big business was running things again. It didn't seem to matter how lacklustre the Federal Coalition team was with no policies at all in contrast to the ALP with so much talent and such a significant program of reform ready to roll. News Ltd's story was the reverse of that and Tony Abbott was the man willing to headline that story for them. He was prepared to take orders and do and say whatever it took to get the promised prize of the Lodge. It didn't look that hard in September, 2010, did it? Gillard would be out before Christmas. Well, it's been a lot harder than Tony Abbott thought, or Rupert Murdoch and his big business allies. Who could have imagined that this one woman could withstand their combined might, could organise her party to hold on to government so firmly and achieve the passage of so much progressive leglislation in a hung parliament? And now the polls are shifting. Somehow Australians have not been convinced by all the biassed news reporting, all that misogynistic slanting of stories about their lying and loathsome PM, and the daily trumpeting of what the Leader of the Opposition had to say, and where he was and what he was doing. For most of the past two years it looked as if the Coalition were bound to win and Labor likely to be annihilated in a coming election. Now all that's changed. As NormanK says there are lots of factors and much doctoral research will be done in years to come, particularly about sexism. For what it's worth I do think many Aussie men are sexist bastards, and often egged on by their wives. But I also think a lot more of them are a pretty fair judge of character when they put their minds to it. They can see that Tony Abbott is not an honest man; he is vain and tricky, daily accusing others of lying, leading a team of pretty shonky operators who have no constructive plans for our country. Character references from the likes of Julie Bishop and Christopher Pyne are immediately seen as phony. They also see Julia Gillard accepted by good men like Tony Windsor and the likes of her Cabinet colleagues as honest, hard working, and extraordinarily capable in the business of government. Aside from the personal warmth in her relationships attested to daily by those who meet her, she is generally acknowledged to have great courage as she daily fronts up to questions from the media and to assaults upon her character by team Abbott.

Lyn

24/09/2012TODAY’S LINKS A new phase of uncertainty, Andrew Elder,Politically Homeless Tony Abbott is a jerk. He was a jerk this year, he was a jerk last year, he was a jerk ten years ago and thirty too. His offences go way beyond fashion crimes. Those heavy-handed legal and ecclesiastical defences have put him in a position where he feels he can do no wrong, and so is blind to objective signals to change course to which others pay close heed. That's the significance of Abbott's behaviour, and http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/ You want POSITIVE news about Australia, Come here, TheFinnigans,Home of the Bison’s Last Update: Friday, 21st September 2012 http://thefinnigans.blogspot.com.au/ Treasurer's economic note, Wayne Swan On Thursday, the International Monetary Fund highlighted our impressive growth , low unemployment, contained inflation, healthy consumption and strong growth in business investment. While we're not immune from global turbulence, the IMF's assessment shows we stand in stark contrast to most developed http://www.treasurer.gov.au/wmsDisplayDocs.aspx?doc=economicnotes/2012/035.htm&pageID=012&min=wms&Year=&DocType=4 Mining doom heralds clean energy boom for Australia, Ruth Forsythe, Independent Australia the debate led by Opposition Leader Tony Abbott laid the blame for the Olympic Dam decision simply at the feet of the Federal Government and its mining and carbon taxes.However, as reported by The Australian on 22 August, neither the carbon price nor the mining tax was relevant. The Minister for Mining, Energy and Tourism, Martin Ferguson, explained that http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/environment/mining-doom-heralds-clean-energy-boom-for-australia/ Why Has the Abbott Opposition Gone Backwards so Quickly?, Bruce Hawker Abbott's political pedigree is not Liberal - its the Democratic Labor Party and B.A. Santamaria's National Civic Council. The DLP was at its heart a socially conservative, Catholic offshoot of the Labor Party - as such it was quite distinct from the Liberals despite the fact that its preferences almost always went to the Coalition http://brucehawker.com/2012/09/21/why-has-the-abbott-opposition-gone-backwards-so-quickly/ A Profile Of The Wittenoom Wombat, Dan Gulbery, The Daily Derp In order to gain some further understanding of Rinehart’s character, it might help to have a look at the biggest influence on her life, her father, mining magnate Lang Hancock. Here is a video featuring Lang, amongst others, proposing a “solution to the Aboriginal problem” http://thedailyderp.net/2012/09/23/a-profile-of-the-wittenoom-wombat/ An apolitical observation, Miglo, Café Whispers As a former Federal Public Servant may I protest that this is a load of absolute and utter rubbish? It’s clearly just another fabricated “look over there” moment to deflect media and public attention away from a very damaged Tony Abbott. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2012/09/23/an-apolitical-observation/ Journo asks people to not tweet links to his work for a national newspaper – fails to understand Old Media is dead, Turn Left 2013 When You control how and where information is used – You have become a propagandist. George Megalogenis can’t even say he was taken out of context, it was a link to his own work http://turnleft2013.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/journo-asks-people-to-not-tweet-links-to-his-work-for-a-national-newspaper-clearly-fails-to- Cool for Cats, Peter Wicks, Wixxy leaks Basically, what Abbott is telling us, is that he approves of these comments except when his polling is looking dodgy. Perhaps why he chose his words carefully, choosing “ill disciplined” rather than saying things like absolute disgrace, totally unacceptable, or less than human http://wixxy.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/cool-for-cats/ Excess Luggage, Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery Pyne swung his handbag all week. Anytime a woman on the front bench of the government spoke, he would interrupt and hit them with his handbag. The coalition really was not going anyway with this line of attack, so when you need someone one to do a man’s job, who else to turn to but Julie “I got my eyes on and around you at the same time” Bishop. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/excess-luggage/ If You Like Sarah Palin, You’ll Absolutely Love Cory Bernardi, The Global Mail "Inspired by the tactics of the Tea Party, Bernardi established the Conservative Leadership Foundation in 2009, which in turn set up the Conservative Action Network (CANdo) that Bernardi likens to 'a Facebook for conservatives'. CANdo rallied dozens of like-minded groups and thousands of individuals to join an orchestrated 'grassroots' campaign — also known as 'astroturfing' — http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/if-you-like-sarah-palin-youll-absolutely-love-cory-bernardi/390/ It's Time, Webdiary how can Abbott pay for his maternity scheme and maintain adequate government spending in other areas. If local business have to lay off workers because of uncompetitiveness,how this be anything but a strain on the economy?Don't forget, he also wants to be shot of the carbon tax, because he is a flat earth climate change denialist, rather than for a better more rational reason. I guess for me, the question is, how can the coalition continue to present as an alternative government , running on a heady dose of Abbottist illogic? http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/3234 Poles, Wires, Regulators and Middle Men, Ben Eltham, New Matilda The three big gentailers are Origin, AGL and TRUenergy. All three own substantial generation assets, ranging from coal-fired power stations to wind farms. All compete in the retail market too. There are differences: Origin is heavily invested in coal-seam gas in Queensland, while AGL has concentrated on building up a big portfolio of wind assets. TRUenergy’s retail business appears http://newmatilda.com/2012/09/21/poles-wires-regulators-and-middle-men ‘Marriage equality could lead to bestiality’ senator falls further, Gay News, Global News An Australian senator who warned that the legalization of same-sex marriage His withdrawal from the conference followed the UK's Mail Online quoting a Conservative party spokesman as saying, ‘We strongly condemn Mr Bernardi's comments which don't reflect [Prime Minister] David Cameron's or the Conservative party's viewpoint in any way.’ http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/%E2%80%98marriage-equality-could-lead-bestiality%E2%80%99-senator-falls-further230912 Now you don’t, The Economist. IN 2007 climate scientists were shocked when the regular summer retreat of the Arctic’s sea ice went far farther than they had ever seen before. In the spring of that year ice covered just under 15m km2 (5.8m square miles) of ocean—an area 90% as big as Russia http://www.economist.com/node/21563278?frsc=dg|a Today’s Front Pages Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 24 September 2012 http://www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm?PaperCountry=Australia

Ad astra

24/09/2012LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

nasking

24/09/2012 [quote]Not sure that I agree with her sweeping statement that Julia Gillard is well practised in the arts of political bastardry without more specific detail. [/quote] Patricia, I doubt any politician reaches such heights without letting the mongrel loose now & then...and being forced to make decisions that seem disloyal and damaging to some. Part of it is the competive nature of the game, there's gonna be winners & losers...envy and grudges... part of it to do with survivalist course corrections...which in turn means yer probably gonna piss off and burn someone or twelve...particularly if they are pretty well inflexible on an issue/policy. It's the nature of the game. It happens in all walks of life...so it's not unexpected that it happens even more intensely as one reaches the top job...and begins to move away from ideological purity, promises and alliances that don't suit growing into a centrist leader that has to cater to more than the grass roots and base... I imagine being PM or President can get to be a pretty lonely job sometimes. I doubt PM Gillard has created more enemies than any of her predecessors...she does tho have to contend, like Rudd, with a majority indifferent or hostile MSM (some motivated by political leanings, some by allegiance to Abbott, some due to conformity...herd mentality, some egged on by their overseers...and wanting to hang onto their paid job in a dwindling & volatile job sector)... And I have no doubt that part of the male voter hostility towards her is based on sexism...tho not a huge amount...some may identify more with "Abbott's athleticism over Gillard's perceived sedentary nature" as Norman puts it... but there are also plenty of males who tend towards couch potato behaviour and dislike what they see as "showoffs" who they perceive as going out of their way to "showboat" with the possible intention to make them feel uncomfortable or guilty about their lifestyle...like a pontificating preacher in church (how many men would've preferred to be home watching sports than in that boring, preachy place?). I doubt Abbott's exercise mania would appeal to many of them. Part of the problem might have to do with the fact she is percieved by a certain section of voters as having stabbed a male PM in the back...Rudd. This probably got the backs of more than a few male QLDers up who were proud of the fact they had a PM from this state. I think as time goes by some of these attitudes are changing as they become more aware of Rudd's flaws...and the value of Swanny in his Treasurer position as a local boy...and the fact Gillard's policies are sounding more appealing when compared to some of the state LNP governments'...and Abbott's masks keeping falling off...the unknown extremist and bullshitter beneath the masks revealed. And of course Gillard is showing herself to be more of a listener, people person, centrist...gutsy and determined by the week. [b]I also think a lot more of them are a pretty fair judge of character when they put their minds to it. They can see that Tony Abbott is not an honest man; he is vain and tricky, daily accusing others of lying, leading a team of pretty shonky operators who have no constructive plans for our country. Character references from the likes of Julie Bishop and Christopher Pyne are immediately seen as phony.[/b] Couldn't agree more Patricia. N'

2353

24/09/2012A thought provoking and interesting article Victoria, thanks and welcome. As a male who is left of centre I wonder however if the "problem" isn't so much Gillard's "men problem" but the existing media portrayal of females being some how less worthy than males. In evidence, look at the traditional "barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen" depiction of women, the cause for celebration when females become CEOs, Senior Politicians or are demonstrably leaders in their field. The reporting usually mentions her "attractiveness", "juggling family and career" or some other "hasn't she done well" meme. Another example is that "shock jocks" are older males generally (and were subject to the ideals of the 50's as expressed by Nasking above), generally preaching to other older males who have the time to listen to their twaddle. I have suggested before that Gillard would be in a much better position if those who support here would stop the good first female PM story and start the good PM who just happens to be a woman discussion. The difference is attempting to get the sympathy vote (she's good for a woman) versus she's kicked some real goals (and butts) who just happens to be a woman - in other words she's got there on her own skills and capabilities, not because she is female. This would take the argument away from the gender of the PM and on to her achievements which at the same time removes an up to now successful line of attack from those in the media who seem to think that females can't "do" leadership as well as males - such as the "shock jocks" that have been playing the gender card for a few years now. By the way I have worked for male and female managers - generally I prefer the females, they are less vindictive, more inclusive and the workplace is usually a better place to be.

nasking

24/09/2012 Lyn, gracias for the useful links. I'll add this one: [b]Swan is spot on, say US online readers[/b] Treasurer Wayne Swan's "cranks and crazies" attack on the US Tea Party has a few Americans simmering online. But many reckon his comments are "spot on" and hope their fellow US citizens will notice how the rest of the world views them. In a speech on Friday, Australia's deputy prime minister said the Tea Party had taken over parts of the US Republican Party and was preventing Congress resolving its budget problem, the so-called "fiscal cliff". When asked if calling the Tea Party "cranks and crazies" was inflammatory in a presidential election year, Mr Swan replied it would be "pretty inflammatory" to see a country default. It remains to be seen if his comments will reverberate as Prime Minister Julia Gillard lobbies world leaders in the US this week to try and win Australia a seat on the United Nations Security Council. But online news readers in the US have noticed, with the first of more than 1300 comments on the Huffington Post website calling Mr Swan's comments "spot on"... http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/swan-is-spot-on-say-us-online-readers-20120923-26eo8.html Good stuff. Plenty of wise Americans. Swanny knows how to get a message out there. And it's valuable info...the Tea Party are economic vandals...backed by some profiteering desperate kooks and opportunists. Plenty of Tea Partiers have been duped by the propaganda machines and funders/big corp supporters. The founding fathers and their wives woulda detested this money craving, opportunistic, country dividing cabal. N'

Michael

24/09/2012Abbott has a man problem. Being one. One strong enough to lead this nation. For the full story, read here: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/lid-lifted-on-nsw-black-box-20120923-26ewc.html To know the basics, following are the opening paragraphs of a story that shows how, named or not as they are at the tail of the story, the Liberal Party and its fair dinkum (sic) fearless (sic) leader (sic), Shoudlabeen, jump to the tune of real 'faceless men'. "Last month Tony Abbott was given a blunt warning, by phone, from a senior member of the Liberal Party. According to notes of the conversation taken by an exceptionally reliable member of the Abbott inner circle (which is not a euphemism for Abbott), this was the warning: ''If you insist on supporting these motions there will be World War III. We will blow the division up from underneath you. You will lose the [next] election.'' This was a reference to moves inside the NSW Liberal Party to democratise the party and curb the power exercised - and routinely abused - by the state executive of the NSW Liberal Party. To stop his state party from fracturing, Abbott has duly supported the status quo."

2353

24/09/2012Michael - interesting article. When linked with the Queensland LNP Constitution which only allows certain people of the State Executive to comment publicly, there is a real problem with openness in the Liberals who claim they are a "broad church". The Queensland LNP have expelled Gary Hardgrave (a former Howard Minister) for adverse commentary on the LNP in his "talkback" radio program and Clive Palmer has recently acknowledged he has been made aware of his responsibilities under the LNP Constitution. Roll on the NSW Court Case.

nasking

24/09/2012 Lyn, from that spot on Andrew Elder piece: [quote][b]Tony Abbott is a jerk. [/b]He was a jerk this year, he was a jerk last year, he was a jerk ten years ago and thirty too. His offences go way beyond fashion crimes. [b]Those heavy-handed legal and ecclesiastical defences have put him in a position where he feels he can do no wrong, and so is blind to objective signals to change course to which others pay close heed. That's the significance of Abbott's behaviour, and it's a real shame Crabb missed it - willfully, insisted on missing the point. [/b] [b]In her coverage of politics, Crabb insists on describing politicians as she finds them, and on taking them and their quoted words as given. All that back-story stuff is beyond her control and her ken. She can't tell the difference between a politician undergoing a spot of bother and one who is doomed. It's one thing to be facile, but to insist that non-facile coverage be discarded is crazy. Crabb saw what happened to Mark Latham after the cabbie's broken arm turned him from a forceful personality to a thug, and whether she likes it or not she should be able to see a similar pattern emerging with Abbott.[/b] [b]Crabb's venture on Twitter today, imperiously insisting we #buythepaper to maintain High Standards Of Journalism, has shot her credibility. Like Richard Wilkins in the 1980s, Crabb is an old person's idea of a groovy with-it younger person; by insisting that we who read widely are personally responsible for "bleeding Fairfax" (while those who hired Crabb and gave her resources that were denied to others escape culpability), she has disappointed her readers while also showing her feet-of-clay to those who placed higher hopes in her reach and acuity. She has been every bit as bombastic as Gina Rinehart was in urging us all to work for the sort of money Crabb would have us spend on a wad of lifestyle supplements. [/b] This is a new phase of uncertainty, all right. The less journalists focus on themselves and refuse to help the rest of us through such a phase, the less likely they are to come through it well; no amount of cramming by Sam Maiden, hedging by Michael Gordon or pearls-rattling by Annabel Crabb will substitute for gathering facts, recognising the story for what it is, and telling it free of the faux-entanglements of The Narrative.[/quote] Indeed. I had high hopes for Crabb once she stopped playing the sycophant when dealing with other more senior journos. She comes up with some imaginative and colourful phrases. But...oft lately I feel she wants too much to be the close mate of every politician...be liked...and in doing so wants to draw us into the stale, conservative, non-progressive world she inhabits...it's like visiting an old aunt in Europe who has a few lovely yummies to offer in her flowery dress surrounded by oodles of traditional knick knacks...it's all pleasant nostalgia... nice place to visit but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there full time lest the cobwebs and lack of progress and old world charm with a dose of conservative cynicism and sweetness mask covering desperate neediness start to make me feel like going all Hunter S. Thompson or Rolling Stones or Brian Jonestown Massacre or David Byrne or Patti Smith or Graham Norton on her. N'

DMW

24/09/2012some interesting thoughts from Katherine Murphy on Abbott's [i]'Women Problem'[/i] [b]Handbags at 10 paces[/b] @NationalTimes [i]AUSTRALIAN politics reached a new point last week when the handbag hit squad and the reverse handbag hit squad slugged it out in 30 frenetic minutes before parliamentary question time. If you missed the encounter - and it was easy to miss given everything hurtles through the national affairs universe with the force of water from a fire hose ...[/i] http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/politics/handbags-at-10-paces-20120923-26eve.html

patriciawa

24/09/2012Agreed, 2353. You remind me that my comments above lack a conclusion. The debate over who is the best equipped to run this country, political orientation aside, is not about sexism. It is about character; integrity and reliability, courage and judgement.

Tom of melbourne

24/09/2012Get over it, people dislike Gillard for the same reasons they turned on Howard – dishonesty. This isn’t a media invention, her lack of transparency is a fact, and I’ve provided only a few examples. There are many others. --------------------------------------------- Use of “troll’ is the last resort of the intellectually lazy. It is applied by those who have run out of points to make, and they just resort to mindless name calling. When “troll” is used, the person who uses the term proves they’ve lost the debate.

Lyn

24/09/2012Good Morning Victoria, Ad and Everybody Twitterverse for you. Tony Abbott puts his foot in his mouth again:- Agnes Mack‏ LOL Tony Abbott tells 2GB PM shldn't be in NY at UN but should be in Jakarta talking to Indonesian President....who is in NY at UN!!!! Jane Cattermole‏ “@sspencer_63: Abbott tells Hadley Gillard should go to Indonesia instead of UN, apparently unaware SBY is at UN http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/sby-to-propose-protocol-vs-religious-defamation-at-un-assembly/545980”DICK! Stephen Spencer‏ Abbott tells Hadley Gillard should go to Indonesia instead of UN, apparently unaware SBY is at UN http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/sby-to-propose-protocol-vs-religious-defamation- at-un-assembly/545980 David Marler‏@Qldaah #auspol @TonyAbbottMHR Tony,from your interview this morning,letting U know the Indonesian foreign minister is in NY with the PM. Bushfire Bill Posted Monday, September 24, 2012 at 8:33 am My own gut feeling is that the gap has not yet been filled to 50-50 or near, and is more likely still about 52.5 to 47.5. But even that is firm evidence of the gap closing, and that the trend is the thing.Live by the polls. Die by the polls.We were specifically told that “The Polls” were our only guide to the electoral fate of the Gillard Government. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2012/09/21/morgan-phone-poll-50-5-49-5-to-coalition/#comment-1418160 How the Bernardi backlash could affect the carbon tax, Mark Kenny Bernardi’s ongoing notoriety could yet cost the party a winnable third senate seat in SA. “His brand is damaged, permanently,” said one. And they say that could be the difference, for an incoming Abbott government, between securing the numbers in the Senate to axe the carbon tax or, needing a whole new double-dissolution election to get it done. People are not happy. http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/how-the-bernardi-backlash-could-affect-the-carbon-tax/ Turnbull launches survey to inform NBN priorities, ABC "There is no question of demolishing the NBN. We actually support the objective of the National Broadband Network [and] what we're seeking to do is make it better targeted, make it more cost-effective and deliver it sooner," he said. Mr Turnbull says the Government's rollout of the NBN so far has been "absolutely woeful". http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-24/coalition-launches-broadband-survey/4276828 Agnes Mack‏ MIchael Kroger repeats false claim Barbara Ramjan didn't tell journos: http://bit.ly/Sf2dzZ Claim refuted here: http://bit.ly/SrQqi8 Republican Party ‘Cranks’ Threatening Growth, Swan Says Republicans led by the anti-tax Tea Party movement wrested control of the U.S. House of Representatives from Democrats in the 2010 mid-term election, picking up 63 seats for their biggest gain in 72 years. The movement’s clout was evident in primary races earlier this year in Indiana and Texas, where establishment-backed Republican officials were defeated by candidates eschewing political compromise. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-21/republican-party-cranks-threatening-growth-swan-says.html Lurline McCulloch‏ Coalition split emerges over wheat deregulation http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-23/coalition-split-emerges-over-wheat-deregulation/4275966 @abcnews Politics Australia‏ Qld AG threatens Labor's IR plan | News | Business Spectator http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Qld-AG-threatens-govts-national-workplace-plan-pd20120924-YESWN?r Ken ‏ Labor is gradually, with purpose & intent, firing up the character question about Tony Abbott He hates women & gays http://bit.ly/QaySKQ thomas king‏ Good read Devil in detail of Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's grand plan #auspol : http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/devil-in-detail-of-opposition-leader-tony-abbotts-grand-plan/story-fncynkc6-1226479414534?sv=d23cdbc011348ec1f2522993dec203f#.UF5lRvKuEA8.twitter via @TheHeraldSun Andrew Elder @theheraldsun There is no reason at all why that article could not have been written a year ago, or a year before that David Marler‏ #Newmania "Additional $7.7m Funding Slash To Qld Health"http://ow.ly/dVFfZ TheQldPublicServant‏ Thats actually $4.4m new cuts fr QHealth grants by Newman govt incl Qld Chronic Disease strat #qldpol #shorttermvision http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/another-44m-cut-from-health-grants-20120924-26fsf.html TheQldPublicServant‏ Petition to save pathology unit & 6 Maryborough jobs | Fraser Coast Chronicle #qldpol http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/story/2012/09/21/petition-save-pathology-unit/ Gump‏ Newman looks to cut wages & conditions for 300,000 small business employee’s #qldpolhttp://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/labor-industrial-relations-regime-under-siege-in-queensland/story-fn59noo3-1226479886375

DMW

24/09/2012... once upon a time [i]unconventional wisdom [/i] had it that: [i]When you can fake sincerity you've got it made[/i] The worm has turned, authenticity is the new black. Be prepared to hear various forms of authenticity to be trotted out as what is needed/missing as a political attribute.

Lyn

24/09/2012Hi Victoria, Ad and Everybody Here is the Political correspondent for The Financial Review reporting the Great Big Abbott Gaffe this morning:- Gillard should be in Jakarta: Abbott PUBLISHED: 2 hours 20 MINUTES AGO | UPDATE: 0 hour 15 MINUTES AGO But Mr Abbott was heavily critical of the bid on Monday and linked it with Labor’s border protection “failures”, telling radio station 2GB that “our Prime Minister should not be swanning around in New York talking to Africans, she should be in Jakarta, right now, trying to sort out the border protection disaster”. http://afr.com/p/national/gillard_should_be_in_jakarta_abbott_Z7UkIiXiNBuMkfOWaYNFRO

Ad astra

24/09/2012Hi Lyn Thanks for the links and Twitterverse. I can’t remember when last Tony Abbott was under such sustained scrutiny. Of course, it is still mild compared with the scrutiny applied to Julia Gillard, but it is there and increasing. The Cory Bernardi affair has weakened him, and the Coalition’s chances of gaining the extra Senate seat in SA it needs for a DD. The [i]Global Mail[/i] picture of Bernardi is frightening, likening him to Sarah Palin. His arrogance is such that he will not be deterred from his determination to bring the Tea Party’s destructive tactics and astroturfing to Federal politics, no matter what Abbott or anyone else says. He is so certain of the rightness of his position that he will press on until he is unendorsed by the Coalition. He is dangerous, particularly to his own party. The Twitterverse shows Abbott foot-in-mouth again. So keen was he to score a cheap political point against PM Gillard by saying that she should be in Jakarta talking to the Indonesian President rather than in New York at the UN, that he didn’t bother to check that he is in fact in New York at the UN! The disintegration of Abbott-man continues. I’ll be out for most of the day.

Ad astra

24/09/2012Hi Lyn The headline for the Massola article should have been: [b]Abbott jibe at PM backfires[/b], and the first paragraph should have read [i]Coalition Leader Tony Abbott’s insistence that PM Gillard should have been in Jakarta talking with Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono about border protection instead of ‘swanning around’ in New York seeking a seat at the UN Security Council for Australia, has backfired spectacularly. President Yudhoyono is in fact in New York attending the UN meetings.[/i] Massola is an Abbott-man and this piece is particularly wimpish.

NormanK

24/09/2012DMW Too late!! We've already had Grattan calling for the real Tony: ♫ Please release him, let him go" ♫ Simon Benson declaring Tony to be a victim of a misunderstanding, singing: ♫ "Oh Lord, please don't let him be misunderstood" ♫ Katherine Murphy giving us her insider knowledge of a kinder gentler Tony: ♫ If you knew Tony like I know Tony" ♫ Kellie Connolly pleading for Tony to show his feminine side: ♫ "He is woman, hear him roar" ♫

Truth Seeker

24/09/2012Hey swordsters. The real difference... Leadership! Leadership. The qualities... to be.. PM Of this.. our wide brown.. land Are as many.. as they are varied Like grains.. of coloured.. sand We need someone who’s smart and strong Who’s fair.. and decent… too We need someone… with vision And with the guts… to see it.. through We need someone to meet world leaders And… represent us… well To walk.. the world stage.. with honour And to ring Australia’s… bell So who is there… to take the job The pugilist… T Abbott? Who cannot answer questions Just takes off… like a startled rabbit They say.. he’s a Rhodes Scholar So you’d think he have some smarts He’s short on policy… costing.. and detail But delivers… great brain farts Physically… he is very strong Of that… there’s no denying But his character is badly flawed And he’s very good at lying His.. misogynistic traits.. are there For.. everyone… to see With a vision.. looking backwards To the days…. of drudgery With the LNPs… unspoken creed.. of Everyone.. for themself Unless you’re one.. of the mega.. rich Then they’ll help you.. build your wealth And his record on the world stage Shows the man is.. lacking class While his conduct shows conclusively He’s not… a PMs…. arse And who else.. from the rabid right Could… step up to plate There’s M Turnbull… mentioned round the traps But he’s left his run… too late He was touted… as a moderate With… an attitude.. benign But his credibility is badly shot As he tows… the party line There’s J Hockey… nicknamed sloppy Joe For reasons…. clear to all And running down.. our great economy.. shows He’s really…. dropped the ball The rest.. are just.. a mindless rabble With naught… to recommend them Regurgitating.. spin and… lies Not one… could be our… PM They rubbish… our economy To push.. their own… agendas Ignoring.. facts… and reason As they’re professional.. truth benders So now.. we come to.. J Gillard Opposite.. in every way She’s done the job for two years now And getting better… every day In difficult.. circumstances She has done.. a stellar.. job Facing lies.. and obfuscation From that opposition mob Showing guts and real commitment To our great Australia fair Despite the medias persecution And a ‘right’ that just don’t care She has… talked the talk with courage.. and Walked the walk… with dignity Whilst focused… on the future And our children’s… legacy She’s inclusive… inspiring loyalty And a great… negotiator And despite.. minority government A proved…. Administrator With a vision…. for the future Based on…. Social…. conscience While the misogynistic.. sociopath Spouts ideological… nonsense So the choices are quite different With both taking… opposing parts A woman… truly focused Or a man who just.. brain farts But it’s not about.. race.. or colour Or which.. is… the stronger sex It’s about effective leadership Not about.. impressive pecks It’s about a strong… economy Not… personal.. ambitions Disguised with lies and slogans Repeated in… worn out.. renditions From a team… of negativity That.. really doesn’t care It’s about… Australia’s future So Advance… our Julia… fair. Cheers

Tom of melbourne

24/09/2012http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/final-201112-budget-deficit-was-473bn/story-e6frfku9-1226480115863 Final budget deficit 2011/12 was $43,700,000,000. In a year the government has racked up $2200 in debt for every man, woman and child. The government has racked up debt for installing insulation, then more debt to remove it. Then the cash handouts which provided a stimulus, mainly to the gaming industry, and a billion on mini amphitheatres, and performing arts centres for schools that charge about $20k a year in fees. It’s irresponsible to continue to increase our economic prosperity at the expense of the future generation who will be responsible to pay it off.

nasking

24/09/2012 [b]Another $4.4m cut from health grants[/b] It looks bad...as tho the Newman QLD govt is deliberately trying to push the federal govt into accumulating more debt for base political reasons. How many QLDers will suffer and get chronic diseases because of such political bastardry? Too many. Politics over healthcare is insane. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/another-44m-cut-from-health-grants-20120924-26fsf.html N'

nasking

24/09/2012 Why do you think Tony Abbott is pushing for more compensation for Bali victims? It's not just because he wants to give the impression he cares. This is a deliberate strategy by the Coalition and their media and allied organisations to push more obligations & debt onto the federal govt in order to screw with the budget surplus. We're onto them. Using Bali victims for their own base political goals. Disgraceful. N'

nasking

24/09/2012 Would help if the Howard govt hadn't made some lousy defence force purchasing deals that have cost us heaps. N'

nasking

24/09/2012 Good stuff Truth Seeker: [quote]So who is there… to take the job The pugilist… T Abbott? Who cannot answer questions Just takes off… like a startled rabbit They say.. he’s a Rhodes Scholar So you’d think he have some smarts He’s short on policy… costing.. and detail But delivers… great brain farts Physically… he is very strong Of that… there’s no denying But his character is badly flawed And he’s very good at lying His.. misogynistic traits.. are there For.. everyone… to see With a vision.. looking backwards To the days…. of drudgery With the LNPs… unspoken creed.. of Everyone.. for themself Unless you’re one.. of the mega.. rich Then they’ll help you.. build your wealth And his record on the world stage Shows the man is.. lacking class While his conduct shows conclusively He’s not… a PMs…. arse And who else.. from the rabid right Could… step up to plate There’s M Turnbull… mentioned round the traps But he’s left his run… too late He was touted… as a moderate With… an attitude.. benign But his credibility is badly shot As he tows… the party line There’s J Hockey… nicknamed sloppy Joe For reasons…. clear to all And running down.. our great economy.. shows He’s really…. dropped the ball The rest.. are just.. a mindless rabble With naught… to recommend them Regurgitating.. spin and… lies Not one… could be our… PM They rubbish… our economy To push.. their own… agendas Ignoring.. facts… and reason As they’re professional.. truth benders So now.. we come to.. J Gillard Opposite.. in every way She’s done the job for two years now And getting better… every day[/quote] Is it any wonder the Liberals under Abbott or on the downward spiral. Too many have picked up his negativity and ranting style. Hard on the ears. Agro and bitter faces hard to look at. Hockey's a disaster zone. Turnbull has his moments when he escapes from the dungeon...but Abbott has put him in a poisonous portfolio. The NBN is the an integral part of the future of jobs, healthcare, education, entertainment...the digital economy...he can't afford to be too negative about it. Or look like he's undermining the rollout that govts and taxpayers need to do...nor look like he's sucking up to big business too much. It's tightrope stuff for a man too close in the past to big business...from Goldman Sachs to Packer to internet/mobile phone companies...and his investments can be scrutinised. Abbott knew exactly how to keep Turnbull in the dungeon. That's what Abbott does...he's a wrecker...even of other politicians' careers. N'

LadyInRed

24/09/2012Victoria A big welcome and a Great article, thanks. As you say the PM has not done anything to warrant men who are not engaged in politics not liking her. TAbbott on the other hand is different, even if you are not engaged in politics he has put himself forward as incredibly negative, his language towards the PM has been offensive, so when 'the punch' story came out I am not surprised that women would have come to the conclusion ....yeah that fits with his image. His handling of it was typical of abusive men, the woman is the liar, and distancing themselves from their dark side. Even Grattan said 'the punch' probably did happen. The 'handbag hit squad' (offensive term) which has been picked up by the MSM of both persuasions proves we have a long way to go. Grattan suggested the Tonster pop out for some pickies with Margie (we'll warm to her), that might fix his image. Its all in the language with mysogyny, it can be subtle, or it can be outright obvious, but it is there. Apparently we are damned if we point out the obvious (get called handbag hit squad) and we are damned if we don't (people like Pickering go unscrutinised and not taken to task). And we get people coming out and saying that we (the PM) should just suck it up. How can we grow as a nation if we don't talk about these things? Most men I know do not fall into the mysogynistic category, but at the same time I know plenty who just don't like the PM, and they usually use the 'she lied' tag. And it doesn't shift when you point out the fact that the carbon price was because of a changed situation in the hung parliament. They just go back to 'she lied'. Point out TAbbott lies, point out Howard lied and nope......'she lied' is all they care about. I know pensioners (men) who are much better off under Labor.....nope makes no difference. Different standards for woman.... Its because she is a woman, they just don't want to admit it because that would mean having to look at themselves.

nasking

24/09/2012 That should be: [b]Is it any wonder the Liberals under Abbott are on the downward spiral.[/b] And: [b]The NBN is an integral part of the future of jobs, healthcare, education, entertainment...the digital economy...he, Turnbull, can't afford to be too negative about it[/b] N'

nasking

24/09/2012 [b]The headline for the Massola article should have been: Abbott jibe at PM backfires, and the first paragraph should have read Coalition Leader Tony Abbott’s insistence that PM Gillard should have been in Jakarta talking with Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono about border protection instead of ‘swanning around’ in New York seeking a seat at the UN Security Council for Australia, has backfired spectacularly. President Yudhoyono is in fact in New York attending the UN meetings.[/b] Ad, Abbott has lost the plot. He's an embarrassment to the Liberal party...as he was when he showed up late to the healthcare debate. Under pressure he wilts...is impetuous...makes woeful decisions. He can't take real scrutiny. N'

Truth Seeker

24/09/2012Nas, they really are on a slippery slope to oblivion, and couldn't happen to a more deserving mob. Cheers :-)

nasking

24/09/2012 [b]RIP TONY ABBOTT: LEAD BALLOON[/b] https://www.google.com.au/search?q=lead+balloon+pictures&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=bs9fUPm7NuaciAe9sIDwDw&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=672#biv=i|10;d|N4PjbwUE9SslwM: N'

nasking

24/09/2012 Lyn, from your ABC link related to Turnbull and survey on NBN: [b]The Coalition says it will not be able to provide a fully costed broadband policy by the next election, but says its plan will be cheaper and completed sooner than the Government's National Broadband Network (NBN).[/b] Do they take us for mugs? This sounds like big blackhole and dodgy costings stuff again. N'

LadyInRed

24/09/2012Devil in the detail is a good read thanks Lyn. Too true they could have written this long before now. The detail doesn't look too good. Labor's fortunes can only keep going up if more of this stuff starts getting reported. Turnbull is in a poisonous portfolio. However, and this goes to Victoria's the article, one would not apply the mysogynist tag to Turnbull. I can't hink of anything he has said that would warrant it? Can anyone else? Julie Bishop has done her dash, if TAbbott goes down she goes down. And it is looking increasingly like TAbbott is cracking. The PM should be in Indonesia talking to SBY - how dumb does that make him look? Populist politics - he probably doesn't care he got it wrong, it was 2GB afterall he is just preaching to the converted looking for there daily hatred fix. Did anyone see him fighting fires complete with a news crew? My partner is in the Rural Fire Brigade - he practically fell off his chair laughing at him.

Jason

24/09/2012Normank, Here is Turnbulls servey on "broadband" if you whish to have a go! I haven't as yet but will get around to later. http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/fasterbroadband/

nasking

24/09/2012 [quote]And it is looking increasingly like TAbbott is cracking. The PM should be in Indonesia talking to SBY - how dumb does that make him look? Populist politics - he probably doesn't care he got it wrong, it was 2GB afterall he is just preaching to the converted looking for there daily hatred fix[/quote] LadyInRed, well said. Abbott does look like he's relying on dog whistles and bringing up fears about terrorism and boat people to try and gain popularity again. It's old hat. And gives an indication of what kind of PM he would be...depending on community division, fear and xenophobia to distract from unpalatable, irresponsible and weak policies. Abbott really is a negative, divisive person. Filled with fanaticism a bitterness. Resorting to dog whistle politics...and hype. Tabloid style. The Murdoch media and shock jocks breed and feed on him and his politics of fear & dog whistling. It's a pattern of behaviour. N'

nasking

24/09/2012 An example of bias...even tho this article brings up the Tony Abbott stuffup...look at the headline: [b]Abbott critical of PMs UN trip[/b] From: AAP September 24, 2012 Gives no indication that Abbott stuffed up. I watched heaps of ABC 24 earlier...same. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/govt-defends-millions-spent-for-un-seat/story-e6frf7kf-1226480060258 The Murdoch empire and Tony Abbott...two peas in a stankin' pod. N'

Patriciawa

24/09/2012I imagine other visitors to the Poll Bludger are locked out right now? I feel very disgruntled with their failure to at least warn full Crikey subscribers who have paid for their daily news of likely inconvenience. Anyone have any idea of when service will be resumed?

NormanK

24/09/2012Patriciawa I got an e-mail today because I complained yesterday about topsy-turvy pagination and comments listings. They are doing tweaks at the moment to at least restore comments to 'normal' chronological order. As for how long? Piece of string anyone?

NormanK

24/09/2012Jason Thanks for the link. I've done the survey but I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with Turnbull massaging my responses to fit in with his cheaper, sooner, nastier broadband policy that will require another rethink in five years time and a further capital injection. I really do wish that he would just give up.

Gravel

24/09/2012NormanK That was very clever with your song titles. How did you get to musical notes there? Truth Seeker Another great piece of prose, well done. I have to laugh at abbott, not knowing that many of the World Leaders are at the UN for the week. Guess we won't hear much about it in the MSM.

Patriciawa

24/09/2012Thanks, NormanK! I persist with PB, mainly reading and very occasionally interjecting because it does keep me [i]au courant [/i]with events, even tho' I have to do a lot of scrolling lately. There are some great comments, and regular posters, but I do wonder if another paid subscription is worth while, given the level of service provided. I sometimes think the Crikey board would prefer PB blog to be less successful and wondered if the current mess is an effort to sabotage poor William Bowe Lyn's lovely links here keep me on top of web articles by opinion makers, of course. AA's posts and comments threads then give a different perspective where I make time to read nearly everything written by like minded people who push me to think more deeply and often to write. Since Miglo retired his pace over at the Cafe is almost too much, but I read nearly all his stuff since the exchanges there are very lively. Who needs newspapers?

NormanK

24/09/2012Gravel [quote]How did you get to musical notes there?[/quote] Perseverance. :) I've been looking for ages for a set of musical notes that I can add to my fonts folder but no success thus far. Those ones were cut and pasted (pinched) off another site. Patriciawa PB is driving me up the wall at present with its pagination nonsense. The site is good because of its immediacy, there's always someone monitoring Twitter and Sky and ABC24 etc. I didn't realise that the blog was effectively in the basement of Crikey and that if the owners of the house want to redecorate then William has little say in the matter. My patience is wearing thin but I did get an e-mail today suggesting that pagination was going to be restored to 'normal' today so fingers crossed.

Truth Seeker

24/09/2012Gravel, thanks for your comment, I also laughed at the Abbotts ability to keep up to date with what's happening. Probably didn't read anything about the UN meetings... oh wait he did.. or not .. did... not... Duh! Cheers :-) :-) :-)

Marilyn

24/09/2012The thing is why do the frigging lazy media report bullshit like Abbott's latest spray without asking if we have any right at all to stop one person from coming here by sea, because we don't. WE don't own the borders of other countries, we cannot legally stop anyone until they are here and if they are peaceful we have to let them land whether we like it or not. Currently SBY's bodyguard and many in the army and police in Indonesia are on trial for murdering refugees who we refused to even bother to rescue but still Abbott and Bishop prattle and babble nonsense and the lazy, racist cretins in the media let them. Remember all those evil, scum of the earth smugglers? All you cretins believed the lies and spin didn't you? http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/indonesian-group-set-to-go-home-20120923-26f3i.html WEll fancy that, they are just poor crew feeding their families and I would be my life that the strangers asking them to crew would be these folk. http://sievx.com/articles/miscellaneous/2012/20120912GeorgeRoberts.html All trained and paid for by Australia and in co-operation with our very own AFP. And the dimwits call me an idiot troll but this is all being done under Gillard because she is a vicious racist pandering to the racists in western Sydney. Now remember it used to be the smugglers who were the scum of the earth, now we are not going to punish them but we will punish the victims who have been pushed out of one country after the other because they cannot get any sort of protection. http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/nauru-has-healthcare-concerns-20120923-26f50.html There is no law on Nauru, no NGO's, the cops are led by a racist bigotted AFP officer, there is no health care, no education, no time limits, no kitchens or bathrooms or housing yet we think it is sensible to do this outside the law to people who have committed no crime at all. The UNHCR who is the body to protect refugees told the government on 5 September that it was illegal but they ignored them just as they do the other human rights bodies we agreed to abide by. And this is what Gillard has always wanted. So you morons who think it is because she is a woman need your lazy heads read. She has never once mentioned the humanity of refugees, not once in all her years as shadow and not once as PM but they are human beings and the ranting focus on how they get here is nothing to do with anything.

Michael

24/09/2012Re The ABC and News Corp covering for Tony Abbott... The Australian http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/foreign-affairs/un-security-council-bid-not-worth-the-cost-tony-abbott/story-fn59nm2j-1226480100250 of all news outlets reports Abbott's 'Indonesia or bust' screw up. Also, in the text, pasted in total below if you don't want to cross No Man's Land to the enemy's patch, is the information that: 'Australia is competing against Finland and Luxembourg, with the top two finishers to get a seat. The two EU nations are expected to get strong support from their European counterparts.' So, TWO seats are up for grabs, leaving one of the three contenders out in the cold. Which means Shouldabeen's smartarse comment: “...it was never worth the $40 million-plus that this government has spent just to win a bronze medal at the United Nations." ...is both as ignorant and ill-researched as his "where in the world is the Indonesian President?" comment because there is no 'bronze medal'. There are, to continue Tiny Abbott's too smart by half analogy, two 'gold' medals (gaining a UN Security Council seat), and a 'silver', maybe, if you get recognition for just turning up (which is clearly Abbott's lifelong political technique), or no medal at all after the golds are handed over. No bronze in the equation at all. This guy is an empty vessel, a barking smirker. And, as it happens, looking at who sits behind him in Parliament, THE perfect Leader of the Opposition. .................. Tony Abbott's boats broadside misfires, after he declares the PM should be in Jakarta, not New York by: Ben Packham and Sid Maher TONY Abbott has been accused of a blunder after declaring Julia Gillard should be in Jakarta talking to President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, when she is preparing to speak to him in New York in coming days. Ms Gillard and President Yudhoyono have no formal bilateral meeting scheduled during the UN General Assembly this week, but will meet on the sidelines of event. It's understood Foreign Affairs Minister Bob Carr will also meet with his Indonesian counterpart The Opposition Leader today accused Ms Gillard of “swanning around New York”, pursuing a seat on the UN Security Council, when she should be closer to home dealing with the critical issue of unauthorised boat arrivals. “She should be in Jakarta, not in New York, because that is where Australia's national interest is most at stake right now,” Mr Abbott told Sydney radio station 2GB. “Rather than talking to African countries trying to drum up the numbers to get us a temporary seat on the UN Security Council, she should be in Jakarta talking to President Yudhoyono about how we can cooperate better with the Indonesians to stop this flow which is putting our border protection hopelessly under the pump.” JULIA Gillard has played down Australia's chances of winning a seat on the UN Security Council, describing the bid as a "tight, close contest". PM arrives in New York The comments brought a swift rebuke from Acting Prime Minister Wayne Swan, who accused Mr Abbott of speaking “in complete defiance of the facts”. “If Mr Abbott had bothered to check his facts, he'd know that the President is actually in New York at the moment,” Mr Swan said. “This is yet another example of reckless negativity from the Leader of the Opposition. “Mr Abbott ought to retract his statements immediately. He ought to apologise for them.” The Prime Minister, in New York for five days of meetings with world leaders, today played down Australia's chances of winning a seat on the UN Security Council, saying the bid would go down to the wire. Mr Abbott said Australia's pursuit of the temporary seat was a waste of money and had distorted the nation's foreign policy priorities. “All other things being equal, yes, better we are on the Security Council than off it. “But it was never worth the $40 million-plus that this government has spent just to win a bronze medal at the United Nations. “And the problem with this whole Security Council bid is that it has cost money; worse it has distorted our priorities over so many years as so much time and effort goes into this, and not into managing the relationships which are absolutely vital to our future.” Ms Gillard will use an address to the UN General Assembly to make a last-ditch push for a spot on the Security Council. She said today Australia had been encouraged by support from the Pacific Islands and Caribbean nations. Australia is competing against Finland and Luxembourg, with the top two finishers to get a seat. The two EU nations are expected to get strong support from their European counterparts. Africa is seen as the key to success for Australia, holding more than 50 states who will vote in the contest. Ms Gillard is expected to meet several African leaders to put Australia's case. However some diplomatic observers believe Australia's case was set back by Ms Gillard's decision not to attend the African Union meeting in July. The decision is said to have put several influential African noses out of joint. “It's tight and it's tough and I'm here to advocate personally for our election to the Security Council,” Ms Gillard said, declining to speculate on the result of the vote, which will take place on October 18. Gareth Evans, a former foreign affairs minister in the Hawke and Keating governments, said Australia's work in the international community warranted an increased role in the United Nations. “Given the formidable commitment that we've made to the UN through peacekeeping and everything else in the past, it really is pretty extraordinary for us not to have a seat,” Prof Evans told ABC radio. He said Australia's reputation in the international community would benefit from the bid, even if it was unsuccessful. “I think just being a visible, active, co-operative player on the world's stage not only gives us the immediate return of participation and decision-making, but also gives us this reputational advantage,” he said. “We also get a reciprocal advantage with countries being willing to help us on issues if we're seen to be helping them.” Abbott. Resign.

Marilyn

24/09/2012http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-24/indonesian-soldier-jailed-for-people-smuggling/4277882 Here we go, 6 years for mass murder - but wait. Australia let them drown and not one person will be charged this end.

LadyInRed

24/09/2012TAbbott is really starting to sound shrill. Looks like this wonderful 'swanning' soundbite might have gotten into the MSM just like the Tonster wanted but for all the wrong reasons - classic! Swan is on the case of the 'she should be talking to SBY' instead of swanning around New York (the cheek of him) - so hopefully this will be on ABC news tonight. This needs to be out there as it is a further testament to his lousy character, and his willingness to talk Australia down. He will say and do anything to get the sound bite. Poor Tonester, it really is starting to look like all those friends in MSM are not helping anymore. Abandon ship! Wonder if Whiney Pyney and Julie Bishop can blame this one on the dirt unit? http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/focus-on-boats-not-un-abbott-tells-pm-20120924-26gfg.html

2353

24/09/2012Jason, Started Turnbull's survey and decided I didn't want to give him my name and address. According to NBN's website, the rollout in our area is still 3 years away (sob sob), but I'd prefer to wait than give Turnbull ammunition.

LadyInRed

24/09/2012re my last comment: Now if we can just start getting them to put the correct headings on their articles we might just get some common sense in the media. But at least it is a start. Damn those journo's!

Jason

24/09/20122353, I have the same problem here in my area! it's still 3 years away as well! My exchange which is about 12 Kms from the GPO doesn't even give me ADSL 2.

Marilyn

24/09/2012Gillard had the nerve to try and claim we abide by our UN commitments when for the past 12 years every report on our behaviour has been dreadful.

KHTAGH

24/09/2012Marilyn you are as popular as a dose of crabs take the hint.

Bultaco Metrella

24/09/2012Great article look forward to more. As a mere male I worked for a number of women bossess. Some were dreadful but a couple were the best I ever worked for. I did encounter a lot of "what would she know about.." amongst workmates who couldn't get over the gender issue. I fondly remember a story from the days of Wran's government when they were arguing about men, and men, only driving trains. The union wallah had just finished his emphatic 'take no prisoners' speech on this when the female bureaucrat enquired " Pray tell me then, what do you do with your penises that is so essential to driving the train?"

Ausdavo

24/09/2012Great writing, Victoria. As one who comes into contact with hundreds of customers every day, political jokes about our PM abound amongst men. Those men (not a majority) show their feelings openly and generally have little respect or consideration for those who may hear them. My stock answer is "the job our PM does is the important thing - just think how bad our country would become and how dimly Austraia would be viewed on the world stage if Abbott became PM". They need to hear other men openly rebutting their slander and putting the heat on the "awful" alternative.

KHTAGH

24/09/2012Hi Victoria I love that you are posting here & hope that there is more to come. I agree with your article & for one I can say I have been following our PM since I predicted to my dog training mate walking on the beach one morning that a team of Rudd & Gillard could unseat the rodent. I was right at that point in time, & they did. As I have said here before I'm disgusted by some of the men in this country & don't want to be tared by their brush, totally ashamed by them. I'm sure she win win the next election as well, with the powers working against her it will be the best win in Australian history & will be the end of the Murdoch empire here in Australia, [if he doesn't see the inside of a cell before then, dog almighty how I would LOVE to see that], it will be a watershed moment in our political history when it happens too. Right wing cut off at the shoulder. LadyinRed [i]Did anyone see him fighting fires complete with a news crew? My partner is in the Rural Fire Brigade - he practically fell off his chair laughing at him. [/i] Yes I must say I did notice that fact, as well as the fact he is the cleanest rural firery I have ever! seen coming back form a burn off as was suggested by his twin cheers squad. What a joke. A panic response if there has ever been, talk about a setup picture opportunity, how pathetic. I have a good mate who trains dogs & fixes behavioral problems with an electrified collar operated by the trainer, I was wondering if A Sinodinos has got one for TAbbort yet? It would be the easiest & only! way to control him. We should also fit one to the poodle also, but I want the controller device.

Ad astra

24/09/2012Folks I’m just back and have read your comments and enjoyed the great verse that several of you have penned. There is a lot of talent on [i]TPS[/i]. The Abbott gaffe will get airplay but it will be interesting to see which outlets let him off the hook and which ones string him up. That will tell us something of their orientation. The [i]AFR[/i] article by Massola was wimpish; the one in [i]The Australian[/i] was surprisingly tough as it put its punch in the headline. ABC Radio News was neither one thing nor the other. It will be fascinating to see how the TV news handles its, and whether it gets a run on [i]Q&A[/i] tonight.

janice

24/09/2012[quote]Why do you think Tony Abbott is pushing for more compensation for Bali victims? It's not just because he wants to give the impression he cares. This is a deliberate strategy by the Coalition and their media and allied organisations to push more obligations & debt onto the federal govt in order to screw with the budget surplus.[/quote] Absolutely spot on, Nasking. This is the conclusion I came to with regards to the boats - Abbott's blathering about reopening Nauru was all about forcing the government to spend a billion dollars unnecessarily so that the budget bottom line (i.e. the surplus) would be compromised.

LadyInRed

24/09/2012Norman K I loved your song titles. Let's keep the heat on. TAbbott is woeful under pressure. It is wonderful to have a place like TPS where you can put your thoughts out and be received kindly, albeit some are becoming very shrill indeed. On an entriely different subject I am reading a wonderful book called : The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry by Rachel Joyce. It has passed my litmus test....I can't put it down I want to know what happens, and I hate the thought of finishing it, because I like reading it so much.

LadyInRed

24/09/2012ooooh KHTAGH....I believe in Ahimsa, even for TAbbott. He did look ridiculous running for the cameras with a nosle in his hand.....what tha? And you are right he was way too clean. Also, fireies never run unless they absolutely have to, the gear they wear is heavy and hot, the boots are steel capped and heavy, I am told they need to conserve energy. So he looked very silly running just holding a nosle in his hand. If that was supposed to make us forgive his nasty, aggressive stance towards the PM and Ramjan all those years ago he could have saved himself the problem and gone to the football, because it didn't work. He had his chance, he could have spoke out against violence, he could have told Pickering and the nutjobs off, he coulda, coulda but didna.

Bacchus

24/09/2012Testing musical notes: ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♭ ♮ ♯

janice

24/09/2012Thank you Victoria for your thought provoking piece. I agree with your analysis but as I also agree with both NormanK and PatriciaWA, there seems to be more than one reason for the PM being marked down in the popularity stakes. When you put the lot in the pot and stir it well, it comes down to a matter of education. Our young people are no longer taught etiquette and social graces so that the guttersnipes get away with being disrespectful and downright rude to the PM. For some ridiculous reason so many of the people turn a blind eye in the name of freedom of speech when each and every one of us should be outraged and insist that all our freedoms be clothed in responsibility. As a nation, we are also remiss in not educating our young as to the way our governments work. Only then will the voting public be protected from the lies and distortions of those out to feather their own nests at the expense of others.

2353

24/09/2012Channel 7 Brisbane gave the Abbott "should be in Jakarta" line a run. Wasn't particularly complimentary either.

KHTAGH

24/09/2012Janice [i]" Our young people are no longer taught etiquette and social graces so that the guttersnipes get away with being disrespectful and downright rude to the PM."[/i] You are so right & I must admit that I have not seen a more stark example of the down turn in nothing more than basic manners.

nasking

24/09/2012 [b]Absolutely spot on, Nasking. This is the conclusion I came to with regards to the boats - Abbott's blathering about reopening Nauru was all about forcing the government to spend a billion dollars unnecessarily so that the budget bottom line (i.e. the surplus) would be compromised.[/b] Janice, indeed. Doesn't it look suss? Fits both their dog whistle approach...and adds to govt debt...that Hockey and Abbott and their supporting media love to focus on. Interesting that Abbott brings up the compo for Bali victims just as another "debt bad" campaign begins. Why didn't the Howard govt do somethin' years ago? Even the RSL is getting in on the act. And the States, Suddenly everyone thinks the federal govt should pay for this...pay for that. Timing suss by half. Insincere. Using some groups as political pawns. N'

nasking

24/09/2012 [b]Channel 7 Brisbane gave the Abbott "should be in Jakarta" line a run. Wasn't particularly complimentary either.[/b] 2353, at least some integrity. Thnx for the info. I noticed it on Sky News at lunchtime too. Was gobsmacked. N'

KHTAGH

24/09/2012Lyn just for u ♥♥♥ For your good work LadyinRed Are we both mistaken? But wasn't he dresses in yellow rubberised WET WEATHER cloths too!!! Real good for fighting fires in?

VicRollison

24/09/2012Evening everyone There are some fantastic thought provoking comments on here, thank you for all the great feedback. NormanK I found your comment really interesting, thanks for your contribution. I might not have scientific evidence of widespread misogyny in this country, but I still think that when a women and a man see the same situation (Gillard's policies/popularity etc) differently, it can't just be a coincidence. Why is she less popular with men? Why is Abbott more popular with men? I can only think of one explanation. Cheers Victoria PS. Love the 'scroll past troll' suggestion!

KHTAGH

24/09/2012NormanK & Gravel If you want put some unique expression in your posts you can use the following, as long as Ad Astra agrees. I strongly suggest you try them in a something other than type them direct into TPS window, as machine coding in a blog window can do some strange stuff. email window is best & just copy & paste them. for example ♫ ☺☻♥♦♣♠•◘○♂ http://www.irongeek.com/alt-numpad-ascii-key-combos-and-chart.html

Tom of Melbourne

24/09/2012[i]’ PS. Love the 'scroll past troll' suggestion![/i[ Yet another who finds it impossible to reply with rationality to the facts about Gillard’s duplicity.

KHTAGH

24/09/2012Victoria, you are so right, most men♂ think that if they have to look at a woman♀ she has to be good looking for their visual pleasure damn what she does. If she is on the box she has to be good looking. I think that is the biggest problem with Kelly & Bishop [the young Bishop] they think they are better looking & hence should be in the lime light all the time. It is the Prime Minister, who cares what she looks like, wears, if she is childless etc. It doesn't matter. It is the job she does that matters. I personally think the fact she has no children means she gives 100% to us all & we should be thankful ☺.

Lyn

24/09/2012Hi Ktagh Thankyou for those lovely little hearts. I have had a look at the link you gave us http://www.irongeek.com/alt-numpad-ascii-key-combos-and-chart.html So now I am trying to see if those symbols work for me. Is this how NormanK did his music notes, clever Mr K. 3 3 3

Michael

24/09/2012Nozzle in hand or not, Abbott always looks ridiculous! And then he opens his mouth. Ears confirm eyes.

Ad astra

24/09/2012Folks Thank you all for your thoughtful, amusing and clever comments that have come all day long. I see Victoria is pleased and impressed. I'm calling it a day. I've been working on the next piece.

jane

24/09/2012Re Liealot's No9s in his lying gob, isn't it the job of his minders to make sure he is briefed on who's where so he doesn't keep making an idiot of himself and this country every time he opens his oversized yap?

Truth Seeker

24/09/2012Another example of Newman Killing QLD on Bigpond news tonight Monday, September 24, 2012 » 05:24pm Developer blacklists Qld under Newman An international developer has blacklisted Queensland, saying Premier Campbell Newman can't be trusted with its money. Singapore-based company Sembawang has cited the Newman government's job cuts in the public sector as part of the reason it won't consider any future investment in the state. $5 b investment gone forever because Newman can't be trusted. Good one Newman

DMW

24/09/2012NK, thanks for your authentic response It struck the right note (chord?)

NormanK

24/09/2012DMW Which one? The long bombastic one or the short musical one?

KHTAGH

24/09/2012Lyn the trick is to hold down the alt key type in the # required & then release the alt key, some keyboards are different & there are even more combinations/codes than are listed on that page. Alt 14 gives the musical notes you saw, but if you try that in your browser it will go back several windows & lose what you have just typed. Some keyboards & browsers come with pre defined shortcuts & that's where the problem can arise, plus there is numbers lock on & off which changes things again. Alt+1-12 gives you those I posted before. As I said best to see what your keyboard & system does in something other than a browser window.

nasking

24/09/2012 Malcolm Turnbull has to remember that Telstra who own the copper wires and part of Foxtel had a vested interest in delaying the NBN rollout. Too easy to blame the govt. N'

nasking

24/09/2012 Useful 4 Corners' doco...but more answers required...problem solving. Great to see Peter Garrett out there and govt putting money into local school...performing arts a great cathartic space for traumatised kids and gateway to careers and building confidence. Need positive tv shows that use financial and cleaning and healthcare and lifestyle counsellors to go from house to house inspiring parents and kids (not preachy or condemning) to make beds, cook food together, build gardens, do budgeting, eat well etc. Show progress year by year. Also provide opportunities for small business projects...and have trade training centres...and student swaps to other countries. The morale and work ethic and hope CAN be lifted. Shame on Peter Costello for using lump sum baby bonus to perpetuate poverty and create debt burden. And shame on NSW previous New City Labor for taking these communities for granted. BTW, I recommend a small nightlight for that young girl's bedroom...uses little electricity. Perhaps the PM could go out there and hand out some. Light on the hill. http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/09/20/3594298.htm Every child has sooo much potential. They just need opportunities. And support, learning systems/networks in place. And a positive environment put in place...with routines. N'

TalkTurkey

24/09/2012From Twitter: Victoria Rollison‏@Vic_Rollison I'm so excited, @MalcolmFraser12 just followed me. Best progressive PM we never had. Love your work Malcolm :) H'mmm. VERY interesting. From [i]several[/i] points of view. ONLY ONE OF WHICH is whether Turdball picked up on our current guest thread writer via this site, which I think is a very fair bet. I would like to hear other TPSers' thoughts re Victoria's. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I reckon Tom Iggulden is one of the worst of all RW bigots on the ABC.

KHTAGH

24/09/2012N Nasking [i]Malcolm Turnbull has to remember that Telstra who own the copper wires and part of Foxtel had a vested interest in delaying the NBN rollout.[/i] There is one exception to that rule & that is down here in Tassie where Telstra are still running pair gain system!! & wont the NBN roll out ASAP so they don't have to explain all the people that can't get any broad band at all, sometimes not even dialup [u]still[/u] even now, Tassie is signed off on now, statewide roll out finished within 2 yrs. For those that don't know what pair gain is, take 8 peoples phone lines (modulate them at a set individual frequency) & then share the common line [still charging everyone full price for each line]. That was fine & saved Telstra rolling out more lines until along comes the internet & data basically doesn't like sharing the line. So instead of putting in new lines they just bullshit to people about distance etc. I get full broad band yet my neighbor can't even get dialup & she is only 50mtrs away, she has to use satellite.

NormanK

24/09/2012Victoria I confess I'm a bit disappointed by your response. I had hoped for a conversation because this is an important subject. Let me have another go and see if I can pique your interest. :) My contention is that Julia Gillard could be just as popular or even more popular than Tony Abbott with men and Australia would still be a country with a large misogynistic streak. Indulge me while I expand on the analogy that I used previously. Let's take Gillard and Abbott out of the picture and look at two different flavours of milk. The venue for our experiment is a primary school playground at lunch time and we have sorted out 100 children who have acknowledged that they enjoy drinking flavoured milk. We have 50 girls and 50 boys. In full view of each other, each child is offered the choice of a glass of chocolate-flavoured milk or strawberry-flavoured milk. At the end of the test we have 55 kids who select chocolate and 45 who select strawberry. Is it fair to conclude from this data that 10% of the children DON'T LIKE strawberry-flavoured milk? Of course not. We can make a very general observation that on this day with this group chocolate was more popular but to assign some negative connotations to the choices that they have made would be unwise. It turns out that 35 boys and 20 girls went for the chocolate and 30 girls and 15 boys went for the strawberry. Can we conclude from this that boys, generally speaking, don't like strawberry and girls don't like chocolate? I don't think so - we have nowhere near enough information to draw that conclusion. This is the sum total of information that is gleaned by a commercial opinion poll. As a further part of the trial each individual child was taken aside and asked why they made the particular choice that they did. Of the chocolate drinkers, 35 kids said they exclusively drink chocolate and it would take considerable persuasion to get them to switch to another flavour; 15 said that it was neither here nor there and they only chose chocolate on a whim; 5 were surprisingly frank and admitted that they went for the chocolate milk because 'x', a group leader, had chosen it. Of the strawberry milk group, 25 were dyed-in-the-wool strawberry addicts; 15 said they didn't have a favourite and couldn't explain why they made the choice that they did; 5 followed a leader. Now, if we wanted to get those numbers to move around a bit and hopefully reverse because we are trying to flog a new brand of strawberry-flavoured milk, who would we target? Certainly not the 35 chocolateers who said they were extremely unlikely to switch. Those who said they followed a leader might seem like a soft target but they are marching to a different drum, following different allegiances. Our best bet is to try to attract some of those 15 who said that they had no particular preference but previously chose chocolate. A week later we return to conduct a new trial. This time the strawberry milk is in a cleverly designed glass that appears to be larger than the chocolate-filled glass. Kids are greedy and it comes as no surprise that this time around 55 children choose strawberry and 45 choose chocolate. Putting aside the vagaries of children (who are only human after all), we can see that there has been a shift from chocolate to strawberry and it would be reasonable to assume that the majority of those who switched came from the 'no particular preference' group formerly aligned with chocolate. We still have 35 children who will only drink chocolate milk - they are your misogynists, mostly male but some women who will always support Abbott because he is male. We still have 25 children who will only drink strawberry milk - they are your firm Gillard supporters, slightly more women than men. We still have 10 who followed a leader - they are likely to vote along party lines regardless of the gender of the leader. We have 15 children who were noncommittal (previously strawberry) who stayed with that choice because of the 'bigger' glass - they are more Gillard supporters who like her policies or her gender. We also have 10 children who were uncommitted in their preference (previously chocolate) but they were persuaded to throw in their lot with the strawberry drinkers - these are your non-misogynistic Abbott preferrers who have been persuaded to switch because they were presented with something that they found more attractive, Gillard Labor's policies. The difference in preferences between Abbott and Gillard is only 5%. A move of 2.5% and they would be neck and neck. A move of 5% and the numbers would be reversed and the misogynistic argument would crumble. But have the misogynists disappeared or been converted? No, they are still there and they are never going to change their minds. I find it entirely conceivable that Gillard could lead Abbott by 12% with regard to both men and women and Australia would STILL be misogynistic.

Bacchus

24/09/2012♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♭ ♮ ♯

nasking

25/09/2012 Go Bacchus! :) Now Bacchus is one who knows heaps about communication technology. Be interesting to hear their view on the NBN and the speed of rollout, the benefits, cost effectiveness, role Telstra has played etc. --------- [b]Tassie is signed off on now, statewide roll out finished within 2 yrs.[/b] Envy :) Thnx for the info KHTAGH. ---------- Superb Q&A...right up my alley with the likes of Jason Silva and an imaginative, forward thinking venture capitalist. Check this site out: http://thisisjasonsilva.com/ Challenge yer little grey cells. Invest in yer future...and yer childrens. And make life better for other species too. We share this planet. N'

nasking

25/09/2012 We have come too far, we have sacrificed too much, to disdain the future now. John F. Kennedy (1917 - 1963) The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet. William Gibson (1948 - ) N'

nasking

25/09/2012 Imagine the NBN in Claymore? The possibilities. N'

nasking

25/09/2012 From Crikey: [b]Brave News World: media is dead — long live media GIDEON HAIGH | SEP 24, 2012 [/b] [quote][b]Cosmos’ readership grew more than a third last year, because, for one thing, the mainstream media has historically covered science so poorly — something that continues, The Oz and The SMH having parted with respected science writers in the latest round of redundancies. Da Silva finds it hilarious: “The world is undergoing a technological revolution and the only people covering it in newspapers are a handful of science writers[/b], while editors go on thinking that everyone is fascinated by the byzantine manoeuvrings of Labor factional politics.” [b]Harmer radiates a similar passion about The Hoopla, which she founded to provide reading and writing opportunities for her own neglected demographic. Digital media, she argues, depends more than anything on the ability to create a sense of community, of belonging. “It’s about the personality, the sense that someone’s home, that there’s a person behind it,” she says. [/b] “There’s nothing to keep you on a screen the way you feel the need to flick through a newspaper. But there’s an idea that there’s someone home — in the way that people like to think that Tina Brown is home when they visit The Daily Beast, or Martha Stewart is home when you visit her site.” Providing a facility for making comments, as newspapers do, no more engenders community than putting up a wall that attracts graffiti. “I write back to readers,” she explains. “If someone puts up a comment, I’m there responding, thanking them, or replying or disagreeing. You can’t imagine Graham Perkin doing that, but that’s what people really dig online.”[/quote] AND: [quote]Nor does the responsiveness and innovation that is regarded as mandatory at the moment come naturally to institutions with long traditions of top-down control. Historically, entrepreneurs such as Kohler, Harmer, Mia Freedman at Mamamia, Tim Burrowes at mUmBRELLA and Stephen Mayne and Eric Beecher of this parish have been atypical in the Australian media. One of the designers of Fairfax’s new digital strategy, Peter Gearin, agrees the challenge is as much cultural as economic. “[b]When we changed the structure, it was basically to disperse the power, push it back to the journalists,” he says. “It shouldn’t be about a person sitting at the top of the pyramid trying to make all the decisions. It’s saying that there’s a whole lot of people who need to take responsibility for what they do, including the journalists. It’s about the journalist being more entrepreneurial, seeing an opportunity, and saying that you’ll pursue it because you think it will have an impact. We want journalists who are willing to have a go rather than always deferring to a greater power. That’s a huge part of the culture change ahead of us, which is going to take a fair bit of time to happen[/b].”[/quote] More here: http://www.crikey.com.au/?p=317759 Indeed. N'

nasking

25/09/2012 From [b]Bernard Keane @ Crikey:[/b] [quote]This isn’t to say Labor’s campaign of targeting Abbott won’t work. [b]There are some aspects of Abbott that even Coalition voters dislike: 42% of them think he’s aggressive; 39% think he’s arrogant; 32% think he’s narrow-minded;[/b] they represent areas where voters will be receptive to Labor messages — one of the reasons Labor has been using terms such as “go the biff” about Abbott, and arguing he has a problem with women. And Liberal voters aren’t as enthusiastic about Abbott as Labor voters are about Gillard: a fortnight ago, [b]81% of Labor voters approved of the PM’s performance; only 63% of Coalition voters approved of Abbott’s.[/b] Coalition voters were twice as likely to say they “don’t know” whom they prefer as PM, compared to Labor voters. There is potential here for Labor; they just haven’t managed to exploit it yet.[/quote] http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/09/24/abbotts-unpopular-but-less-so-with-the-voters-labor-needs/ Ya can't sell a rotten bag of potatoes to the public once their sense of smell comes back...and they have enuff light to see in the bag...scrutinise the merchandise. Plenty never lost their ability to smell from a distance...and they could see in the dark. The increasing light only confirms what they suspected. Abbott has a stench about him. Looks inedible. N'

Lyn

25/09/2012TODAY’S LINKS Does Tony Abbott make you shrill?, Women Against Abbott You don’t need to delve into the University of Sydney archives to find some classic Abbott moments. I was trawling through my Facebook today and came across this reminder of the moment in 2010 when Abbott accused the PM of being “shrill and aggressive.” Full story here http://womenagainstabbott.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/does-tony-abbott-make-you-shrill/ Evil Woman,Peter Wicks, Wixxy Leaks The inference is that any woman who can out debate, outsmart, or show Tony Abbott in poor light, is not smarter, or more capable, but is in fact using her sex as a means of putting him down by beating him up with an imaginary handbag. http://wixxy.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/evil-woman/ Wayne ‘Triple A’ Swan says what the entire world is thinking: Conservatives will destroy economies, Turn Left 2013 Wayne Swan – deputy Prime Minister and treasure for one of the very few countries that escaped the global financial crisis and is at the helm of a Triple A rated economy, yes that Wayne Swan. When he talks about economies, he knows what he is talking about – and his opinion should be respected http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=363766757032742&set=a.363456277063790.85135.277774178965334&type=1&theater Mining Smiles For The Cameras, Shelley Marshall, New Matilda The mining tax got knocked down - and it cost Kevin Rudd his job. So why is the mining industry still bombarding our screens with propaganda? The answer lies in the budget, http://newmatilda.com/2012/09/24/mining-smiles-cameras Chris Berg – Champion of the Outer Suburban Hero, Preston Towers,The Preston Institute Berg is often thought of as one of the “nice” members of the IPA, one of the few who isn’t after Liberal Party preselection. He is, however, a defender of the neoliberal system that provides cheap milk, no matter the cost to farmers. He now also likes the outer suburban resident. The “bogan”, in modern parlance. As ever, his words are in italics. http://prestoninstitute.com/2012/09/23/bergchampion/ Give it up, Tony, Miglo, Café Whispers Tony Abbott may have given up his scare campaign but in no way has he given up his ambition ‘scrap the tax’. Might I say . . . Give it up, Tony. We’re all doing just fine. You will be the wrecking ball of the economy – not the tax that you predicted would be. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/give-it-up-tony/ Julia Gillard in New York, Nick Bryant, The Interpreter The ambitions of both Gillard and Abbott seem happily accommodated within these shores. When they retire from politics, for instance, it is hard to imagine either taking up any kind of international role. Nor does it help Australia's bid for a seat on the UN Security Council that the present PM and her possible successor have decided to make global affairs such a low priority. http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2012/09/24/Julia-Gillard-in-New-York.aspx Electricity and the power of choice – for whom?, Lynne Chester, The Conversation Electricity costs account for 75% of all household energy bills. But low-income households spend higher proportions of income and expenditure on their energy than the wealthier. They also have less ability to adjust their electricity demand as they spend more time at home and have insufficient financial resources to make their home more energy efficient. http://theconversation.edu.au/electricity-and-the-power-of-choice-for-whom-9578 Cut Electricity Prices In Half , Ask Gerbilnow residential price of electricity in the United States is 12 cents per kilowatt-hour. This is HALF the Australian price of 24 cents per kilowatt-hour. There are two reasons for high electricity prices in Australia: http://blog.gerbilnow.com/2012/09/cut-electricity-prices-in-half.html Multiculturalism: a principled work in progress, Mungo MacCallum, ABC In a lecture to the Australian Multicultural Council in Canberra last week, the Westfield co-founder Frank Lowy told the audience, "Multiculturalism is a work in progress." Absolutely correct; it is not a settled and steady state, but a dynamic, developing process. And it has been so since long before the word was coined, and will go on being so for the foreseeable future. http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4276588.html What's a NDIS?, David Marler ,Info 4 Carers MP's like Bill Shorten further championed the cause. Opposition Leader Tony Abbott went on to state that the NDIS was an idea whose time had come. Prime Minister Julia Gillard affirmed her Governments commitment to the implementation of the scheme. Welcome to the NDIS. The greatest social reform in Australia's history since Medicare http://info4carers.com/index.php/ndis.html Behind the scenes: meet NBN Co's national contact centre team, Dan Warne, NBN Co NBN Co officially opened our new national contact centre on the Gold Coast on Wednesday. We took a look behind the scenes and met some of the staff who will be taking -- and making -- more than 8,000 calls and emails a month, and more every day.The contact centre is located in the Queensland suburb of Varsity Lakes and feels nothing like what you'd imagine a call centre to be http://nbnco.com.au/blog/behind-the-scenes-meet-the-nbn-co-national-contact-centre-team.html Coalition NBN policy: Costed or not costed?, Renai LeMay, Delimeter just one short month down the track, Turnbull appears to have changed his mind about the issue completely, telling the ABC this morning that the Coalition “not in a position to be able to fully cost its policy before the next election” (that’s a paraphrase by the ABC). Aunty then quotes the Earl of Wentworth as saying (we recommend you click here for the full article): http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/24/coalition-nbn-policy-costed-or-not-costed/ Conroy attacks Turnbull over NBN alternative, Financial Review We are not in a position to provide an alternative, if you like, to the NBN Co’s corporate plan because we simply don’t have access to the contractual information,” Mr Turnbull told ABC radio.“Our policy will be costed in the sense that we can provide very hard, reliable estimates of the relative cost of our approach.”In August Mr Turnbull told The Australian Financial Review he had a fully costed policy ready to go. http://afr.com/p/technology/conroy_attacks_turnbull_over_nbn_xpnXdmoN3Ps0H4wn5V4nqK Turnbull NBN Costing Backflip?, Michael Wyers Mr Turnbull said because the coalition did not have access to the details of the NBN rollout, it was difficult to provide a fully-costed alternative.”A month ago he had a fully costed plan, now it’s difficult to even make a fully costed plan? http://michaelwyres.com/2012/09/turnbull-nbn-costing-backflip/ The Greens and Labor preferences – 2010 Senate Election, Poliquant few months ago we had a look at the consequences of the Labor party preferencing the Greens last on their Senate Group Voting Tickets (GVTs) behind the Liberals. This was in the wake of several Labor figures floating the idea that the Greens should not be the automatic second choice in Labor preference recommendations for both the House and the Senate. http://poliquant.com/greens-and-lab-prefs-2010/ Today’s Front Pages Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 25 September 2012 http://www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm?PaperCountry=Australia

Michael

25/09/2012Michelle unheart Tony??? Did you just feel the earth of the Australian political landscape move? http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/tonys-latest-knockout-punch-20120924-26hbk.html And by the by, Shouldabeen's claim that the Security Council bid has cost "$40 million-plus" is an exaggeration. Oh, damn it, 'spade a spade'! He's lying again.

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25/09/2012LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

LadyInRed

25/09/2012Norman K I thought of this song this morning. TAbbott on the PM over in New York: ♫ It Should've been me.....that woman up there is a doggone thief ♫

Lyn

25/09/2012Good Morning Ad, Victoria and Everybody Twitterverse for you:- Bushfire Bill Posted Tuesday, September 25, 2012 at 7:23 am | Permalink There may be other blogs that work in reverse, arse-up, but they are few and far between. The format might be OK for twitter, but not for a serious discussion board. It’s still usable, I suppose, but why should “usable” – with lots of contributors installing counter-software to get around its “usability” – be good enough?The new format sucks. The sooner the way it’s organized and paginated the way it was, the better. Something’s been lost and may not come back if it isn’t. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2012/09/24/essential-research-55-45-to-coalition-6/#comment-1418829 Wozniak likes NBN so much, he’s applying for citizenship, Financial Review Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak has listed the rollout of a national broadband network as one of the reasons he wants to become an Australian. Mr Wozniak told The Australian Financial Review in Sydney that he had spoken to Communications Minister Stephen Conroy and was in support of the federal government’s fibre rollout. http://afr.com/p/technology/wozniak_likes_australia_broadband_lz4NGUtmpS2PvD55EJ4eoL Stephen Koukoulas O'dwyer lying about tax record of Howard Govt. It was the highest taxing govt in Australia's history #qanda Luke Buckmaster‏ Kelly O'Dwyer is being made to look like such a tool tonight I almost feel sorry for her. And by "almost" I mean, not at all. #qanda Ken ‏ Senator Carr says Tony Abbott is fixated with an "Anglosphere" that would see Australia return to its colonial days http://t.co/yubS698b The grey economy: how retirees rort the pension, Peter Martin "The bank is basically facilitating a tax avoidance scheme by issuing high denomination notes," he told the Herald. "They are not needed for day-to-day transaction purposes, or even as reasonable stores of value." His best guess is the average pensioner couple could hold up to $50,000 in undeclared $50 and $100 notes to get access to the pension. http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-grey-economy-how-retirees-rort-the-pension-20120924-26hku.html#ixzz27Qacqvij Another gotcha moment for gunslinger Abbott, Lenore Taylor http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/another-gotcha-moment-for-gunslinger-abbott-20120924-26hi3.html Asian focus is vital for economy's future, says Carr Phillip Coorey This is the third successive overseas trip which has not gone to plan for the Prime Minister. She came home early from the Cook Islands when five soldiers were killed in Afghanistan and she left APEC after only one day when her father died. http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/asian-focus-is-vital-for-economys-future-says-carr-20120924-26hi4.html#ixzz27QLPL4ux The Daily Telegraph‏ Gillard taken ill in New York: PRIME Minister Julia Gillard has withdrawn from a speaking engagement in New York... http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/gillard-details-complex-future-economy/story-fncvk70o-1226480661143?utm_source= TheQldPublicServant‏ 99% of firies vote for industrial action to stop Newman cuts | Sunshine Coast Daily #qldpol http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2012/09/25/firies-find-99-solution-to-cuts-firefighters/ The Geek I Know‏ by Michelle Grattan Grattan: Tony Abbott has swung one political punch too many, and floored himself. http://tinyurl.com/9kf9bs9#auspol Toastman‏@toastman51 Senate to begin power price inquiry http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-25/senate-begins-power-price-inquiry/4278632 @abcnews When the private sector owns public asset's they hit their profit button!

NormanK

25/09/2012Bacchus You are a kind and benevolent god, even if you are a soak.

Gravel

25/09/2012Normank and Bacchus Thanks for all your help with the icons, I see people here are adapting quickly to them, it does brighten the place up a bit. :-) Patriciawa You don't need to subscribe to Crikey for Poll Bludger, I have been looking at it occasionally for years. I used to subscribe but they went off the boil and I gave up. You do need to login to write though. Bultaco Metrella Now that was a great little story about train drivers. Thanks for the laugh. Knee High You have added to the icons too, thanks heaps.

Bacchus

25/09/2012:D :D @ NormanK 09:39 AM

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25/09/2012Hi Lyn We see another episode in the ongoing drama – The Abbott Disintegration. He goes from one gaffe to another, mistake to mistake, silly statement to silly statement. His colleagues must be despairing about whether they can drag him to the election start line still on his feet. He is the victim of his obsession with scoring political points at every turn. How long will his colleagues and media acolytes tolerate having to defend his behavior, or pretend nothing happened? It seems even Michelle Grattan is becoming fed up, and Lenore Taylor too. But was there any mention of Abbott’s most recent gaffe in News Limited papers? I see Malcolm Turnbull’s latest foray into a Coalition alternative to the NBN has drawn fire from the experts and ridicule from Stephen Conroy. He twists and turns and squirms but the truth is the Government NBN is the way to go, and the Coalition alternative is a third rate option. He must curse Abbott every day for giving him the assignment to ‘demolish the NBN’. We will soon be on the road back to the south coast, visiting friends on the way. I’ll be back this evening.

bilko

25/09/2012AA Re the PM in NY not Jakarta You now the saying. There are three types of people in this world, the ones that make it happen those who watch it happen and those who say what happened? Abbort is morphing into the third sort of person as are his advisers. Three cheers I say and may the force stay away from them.

Michael

25/09/2012AA, hi. See my post further up the page, September 24. 2012 03:33 PM, which reports The Australian covering the Warringah Gafferer's snafu.

DMW

25/09/2012IF, and I still reckon it is a big IF, there is a changing of the underpants, oops, sorry, changing of the guard it is still two months away. Mark down November 26th as the day most likely for the end of the current reign (of terror?). It might take until the 29th but if it happens it will during that week.

nasking

25/09/2012 Bit of a rush today...enjoyed reading comments. Thnx for useful links Lyn, top job. Same Michael and others. I've put up a few links and comments here: http://www.facebook.com/nick.king.1232760?ref=tn_tnmn If yer on Facebook feel free to friend me. Cheers all. N'

Casablanca

25/09/2012Abbort has missed his true vocation - he has all the personal & professional attributes to be one of the best shock jocks in the country. He would even rival some of America's best.

Casablanca

25/09/2012Tony Abbott's monsters Michael Mullins September 23, 2012 Significantly, the conservative side of politics ...has made monsters of its own MPs, in the belief that their larger than life profiles will translate into electoral success. http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=33307

Michael

25/09/2012OK, 'fession time. I dislike Malcolm Turnbull intensely. I think he's bogus from talcum sprinkled toes to the tip of his bay-rummed head. I believe Godwin Grech saved us from a possible PM who would have made Australia, in his own way, every bit as much of a laughing stock around the world as Abbott PM would have done. I have stated my case in the year past on several occasions, and I won't trawl through all that again, 'cause that's a Turnbull technique. Reiteration. (Which of course, is only a degree away from Abbott's technique, repetition. The degree might be defined as ‘M’ having a slightly broader vocabulary than ‘T’, or… an iPad always accessible thesaurus, perhaps?). But but but (which is both repetition and reiteration, for anyone interested), the stories in the links to news articles above about the NBN and the Coalition's many and various, that is Turnbull's, positions, tell us something very important about Malcolm. He's a twin of Abbott. Not identical, but fraternal. They both duck and swerve, shift and spin, avoid and obfuscate, smirk and pontificate (hey, this iPad thesaurus is killer! Kidding, between my ears is this, thus these conjoined, fraternal but not identical twinned phrases) to illustrate just how 'M' has managed, by vocabulary and diction, by suits and affiliations, to present himself as not at all like 'T', whereas he is, in fact, cut precisely from the same strip of burlap, to wit, a material of which chaff bags may well be made well, and by moving himself to just left of centre-frame in the all-seeing but smudgily obscuring eye of the mainstream media, offered the furphy that he is the nice, sensible guy, the one who doesn't punch walls but pays to have them frescoed, and portraits painted a la Frescobaldi of he and the Missus, whereas the brute in the blue corner knows nothing but the monosyllable and the rabbit punch, nothing more than the street brawl followed by confession and forgiveness all wrapped up in, "That's Tony, straight-talking, cowboy-walking, nozzle-pointing, guider of the blind, Tony, our guy, who when a real woman meets him decides he's not at all like those nasty handbag-wielders maintain, he is... just short of the Ideal Guy", the ideal guy to be PM and lead us all out of the wilderness towards that aspirational glimmer of gold that is an Age we must return to, forthwith and don't even hint at a double dissolution, because that would mean, could only mean, the numbers didn't go the way Tony A assured us all they would (Whyalla whacked, why not?), and that means the Australian people, who his fatherly guru assured him "always get it right", didn't, quite, get it right, ‘where's the landslide?’, while Malcolm bides his time in Cheshire, where the cats all smile and whisper, purringly in his ear, "Ma-a-aaal-c-om, your time is gonna come, you'll be the fibre, THE FIBRE, to the node of power, the kernel of commanding, the apogee of political apostasy reversed”, because you never did "go and join Labor", Malcolm, you outwaited the shills, the Jills, the other contenders (yeah, right), and stepped forward on the only day it mattered to claim the crown... But it bends unlike titanium, it’s tin, Malcolm, and there are sweat marks on it from clandestine after midnight snuck into the high gallery lone fitting sessions by the guy who's gone, the one disappeared on his bike, your twin. Deep to the marrowy bone fraternity, unacknowledged either side of the divide because that’s what the divide actually is, a mirror neither of you, not ‘Tony’, not ‘Malcolm’, can bear to look at. But we have.

Gravel

25/09/2012Michael Well written. I don't trust Malcolm either. I haven't since I became aware of him, then there was the 'Utegate' thing. Lyn Thanks for your great links. Poor Julia, the last three times she has gone overseas something has happened to interrupt her trip. I do hope she will be okay and can enjoy the rest of the session. I read somewhere she will be on ABC24 at 5.30am in the morning so I'm setting the tape up.

NormanK

25/09/2012Tony Abbott's speech to the RSL on Tuesday 25th September - a few thoughts. [quote]As one who has never worn a soldier’s uniform, I salute those who have. I have not done what you have done. I have not been where you have been. That is to your credit, not mine. It leads me to respect you more, not less.[/quote] Blame my inability to properly comprehend truly inspiring speechifying, but what the Hell does this mean? Under what circumstances would it be the case that Abbott deserves 'credit' for not having served in uniform? That is what he is saying when he disavows the contention - "no, no, no, don't praise me, I praise you". Why would not having served in uniform cause him to respect soldiers less? Beats me. Any clues from others would be appreciated. [quote]Newcomers to Australia don’t have to surrender their heritage but they do have to surrender their hatreds. People who aren’t prepared to live and let live should not come to this country. If they are already here, they need to understand that Australia won’t tolerate the intolerant.[/quote] Let's see - "won't tolerate" - that makes you intolerant, doesn't it Tony? It's okay for you to be intolerant of the views of others where their views conflict with your own but it's not okay for others to be intolerant of your views? [quote]Thanks to cuts in maintenance budgets, not one of three heavy lift ships was available to help with disaster relief last year.[/quote] As I recall, Defence Minister Steven Smith was ropeable about this incapacity to respond to an emergency because he had not been informed that maintenance was not being carried out. I expect Smith to come out and strongly contest the veracity of this claim. [quote]Our aspiration, as the Commonwealth’s budgetary position improves, would be to restore the three per cent real growth in defence spending that marked the final seven years of the Howard government.[/quote] This 'aspiration' is exactly the same as the government's aspiration with the significant difference being that Labor have already written this into the forward estimates. [quote]Within 18 months of an election, an incoming Coalition government would publish a new Defence White Paper with costed, affordable ways to meet Australia’s defence and national security objectives.[/quote] A new Defence White Paper is due to be published in 2013. It would be reasonable to expect that this would be planned to occur before the election so that Labor can campaign on some or all of its recommendations. There was a Defence White Paper in 2000. The next one was under Rudd in early 2009 when the extent of the fallout from the GFC could not be properly anticipated and it is currently considered to be optimistic in the prevailing economic and budgetary conditions. To call for yet another one within eighteen months is just grandstanding. [quote]Within 18 months of an election, an incoming Coalition government would make the short and medium term decisions necessary to ensure that Australia has no submarine capability gap.[/quote] This is the same timeframe that the government has on making these decisions. Abbott is promising nothing. [quote]The other big procurement decision is the timing of our acquisition of the Joint Strike Fighter. Again, without detailed operational advice, this is not a decision that an opposition can make but we will make it within 18 months of a change of government.[/quote] Again, the decision has been made by Labor and a new timetable put into place. The new timetable reflects budgetary constraints and the inability of the supplier to meet deadlines. Once again, Abbott is offering nothing. [quote]Not only has the current government failed to honour its pre-election commitment to a fair deal for defence pensioners. It has recruited its parliamentary allies to vote down Coalition proposals that would hold them to their promise.[/quote] I can recall quite distinctly Wayne Swan dismissing this idea during an appearance at the NPC and the PM fielded a question during the election campaign where she said there would be no change to the existing system. I have no recollection of Labor ever promising to change the indexing procedures attached to a defence pension. I suspect this is an outright lie. Full transcript of the speech is available over at Tony's place: http://tonyabbott.com.au/News/tabid/94/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/8899/Address-to-2012-RSL-National-Conference-Sydney.aspx

NormanK

25/09/2012Michael What a superb rant. I'll have to read it a couple of times because I am one of those who does look more favourably on Turnbull than Abbott. That is until last night's fancy footwork in the Leigh Sales' interview. It is an interesting exercise to put the two of them beside each other and note their similarities rather than their differences. Thanks.

janice

25/09/2012Well said, Michael. Truffles is one of those people who, should he deign to shake your hand, you would count your fingers carefully afterwards. In my opinion, the only difference between he and Abbott is that his language delivery is smoother and silkier as it leaves his mouth but then, so it is with the most successful con men.

Tom of Melbourne

25/09/2012How odd some people are. I quite admired Turnbull when he advocated free speech in the “Spycatcher” case, against the Thatcher government. I thought he was an intelligent partner in Whitlam, Wran, Turnbull. When he was chairman of the Republican Movement, I thought he was a good advocate and put his money where is mouth is. It’s odd that some people just make their character assessments on the basis of their personal partisan (ALP) orientation, rather than on an individual’s track record.

nasking

25/09/2012 Well said Norman re: Abbott and Defense. N'

Michael

25/09/2012ToM. Turnbull's "track record" has only one set of footprints on it. The way he likes it.

Lyn

25/09/2012Hi Michael Your post @ 3.20pm is absolutely fantastic. Like NormanK I am reading again. I can't stand Malcolm Turnbull for lots of reasons, one of many is the story of him delivering papers to Kerrie Packer in the darkest of night. Creepy and corrupt. On last nights interview Turnbull came across shifty, evasive and shonky. A couple of twitter comments re Turnbull:- Destroying the Joint‏ Make no mistake about Malcolm Turnbull. He is Tony Abbott in Armani. Possum Comitatus‏ TurnbullMalcolm And maybe name dropping and the "baffle with bullshit" spiel works in your usual political circles, but it looks bad here Michael Wyres‏ TurnbullMalcolm It's not more affordable - because when FTTN is not enough, we'll have to build FTTP anyway Possum Comitatus‏ TurnbullMalcolm From day one you've obfuscated, deliberately misinformed and otherwise peddled convenience over fact as much as anyone

Tom of Melbourne

25/09/2012So here people defend, some applaud, the character of Thomson, even after 180 adverse findings… but find Turnbull objectionable!! The character assessment here isn’t just odd, it’s bizarre.

2353

25/09/2012NormanK - verification of your flavoured milk example above is my Father. Some years ago when I was straight out of school, he claimed I would never get a job because all the "ivies" or "wogs (greek) "New Australians would take them. Some years later it was the Vietnamese or Chinese and now he's worried about his grandkids not getting jobs because all the "arabs" or "Africans" will take them. In effect, the attitude hasn't changed however the threat has to meet changed circumstances. For the record - I have never been unemployed. On the subject for the day - Turnbull - I don't trust him either as while he is more "urbane" than Abbott, he seems to be just as dogmatic and judgemental. I suspect one reason that Abbott is still there is the LNP realise that Turnbull is electoral suicide (primarily due to "utegate" being trotted out during an election campaign) they are trying to find someone else who is acceptable. Hockey has a better chance of leadership - and he isn't a heavyweight (figuratively anyway) or have the gravitas to come across as a "leader".

Jason

25/09/2012While most ignore you ToM, to a man and woman there is one general consensus here, none of us would piss on you if you were on fire!

Tom of Melbourne

25/09/2012Jason, a lot of the people here simply don't like to confront their own hypocrisy.

Ian

25/09/2012Malcom Turnbull is Tony Abbott in a more expensive suit and softer accent. They are both on the same mission. To screw anyone who works for a living, on a pension, social security recipient and they answer only to those such as the Koch bros and the puppet masters way back in the shadows. Neither have a philosophy, they have orders.

Wake Up

25/09/2012Somehow I doubt that Turdball will get a shot as leader under this regiegm, he is not far enough to the right for the current Liberal party whose focus has been all about pushing further and further towards the 'Tea Party' style extreme right. That is why he was dumped for Abbotoir in the first place. It's no secret that Abbotoir hates Turdball with a vengeance which is why he gave him the Communications portfolio with direct instructions to wreck it knowing full well that Technology was his passion. Interestingly, the newly Abbotoir promoted Arthur Sinodinos failed to stand and win preselection in Wentworth due to Turdball changing his mind about quitting politics. As others here have noted, Turdball is definitely not to be trusted. He is a megalomaniac and his motivation is all ego driven, way too smooth, the sure sign of a conman. Unfortunately for the Libs, he is their best chance for winning the next election........... and Labor's worst case scenario.

Wake Up

25/09/2012* regiegm = regime

Patriciawa

25/09/2012I'm not sure that Malcolm Turnbull is Tony Abbott's equal in bastardry, Michael. But you almost persuaded me there! As NormanK said, that was a superb rant! I'm more like Lyn and Janice, and others writing in and I just don't trust him. Like 2353 I'm not taken in by his urbane manner, as Leigh Sales and many others seem to be. Whenever I try to write about him I can only come up with insincere phrases and pretentious vocabulary.....like this..... [b]Think Badly Of Malcolm? [i]Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense[/i]!**[/b] Will Malcolm Turnbull’s broadcast charm offensive help him to advance His leadership aspirations? Surely he’s in with a chance! Big business and power brokers will see the difference, His smooth urbanity without Abbott’s rash belligerence. Abbott himself once farewelled Mal, praising his excellence, Ironically describing him as [i]‘man of the renaissance.’[/i] Here he is, indeed [i]‘reborn,’[/i] with all his former nonchalance And his new, trim, TV image surely no coincidence. Every move that Malcolm makes may seem to have significance For Liberals. But for Oz what has much more relevance Is this. For all his style and patrician grandiloquence, Is he any match for our PM in guile, strength and intelligence? [i]**“Evil be to him who evil thinks!” or “Perish the thought!”[/i]

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25/09/2012Folks I’m back at the south coast after a long, long day. I’ve enjoyed reading your comments. I’m calling it a day. Tomorrow I’ll finish [i]The violent clash of political ideologies[/i] ready for posting Thursday afternoon.

Tom of Melbourne

25/09/2012At the age Gillard clamed to be “young & naïve” Turnbull was taking on the Thatcher government in the “Spycatcher” case. Later he established Whitlam Wran Turnbull. He spent 7 years being the advocate for (and financing) the republican movement. But because he’s now finished on the wrong side of the parliament, he’s attacked by the mindless barrackers here. Really, some people ought to be ashamed of their senseless partisan attacks.

Jason

25/09/2012Nothing to be ashamed of ToM, Who would have thought Malcom Fraser would find himself on the wrong side of the party he once lead! I bet he never thought tea party nutters like you would take over!

TalkTurkey

25/09/2012Greetings Swordsfolks, I must say I am delighted to find that so many of the posters here share my feelings towards Turdball, namely that he richly deserves the name Turdball which is what I have gleefully called him for years. (Delighted nod to Wake Up!) I didn't actually venture my opinion (except by calling him Turdball ever since Grechgate), though in my post re Victoria's piece about Turdy I earnestly asked for others' opinions on him.) Very weary today, worked hard, I'm falling asleep at the keybooard, but Victoria, where I said earlier I agreed with all you said in this thread, well I don't agree with your feelings about Turdy. I agree with everybody else's here. Especially Jason Obelix, who reminds me how much Turdy reminds me of Groucho Marx: "[i]These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others."[/i] I did drop a pretty broad hint as to my feelings though - [i]Victoria Rollison‏@Vic_Rollison I'm so excited, @MalcolmFraser12 just followed me. Best progressive PM we never had. Love your work Malcolm H'mmm. VERY interesting. From several points of view. ONLY ONE OF WHICH is whether Turdball picked up on our current guest thread writer via this site, which I think is a very fair bet. I would like to hear other TPSers' thoughts re Victoria's. [/i] Well I have now, it is very gratifying to find that virtually everyone thinks much as I do. It seems a pity,but I don't think I can write any more. PS For Dog's sake take care of the LNP! :) Goodnight Comrades.

DMW

25/09/2012maybe some people will enjoy Pope's CTimes cartoon for tomorrow http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/opinion/cartoons/david-pope-20120214-1t3j0.html

DMW

25/09/2012Sober Lane ‏@soberlane The first rule of Thesaurus Club is, you don't talk about, mention, speak of, discuss, chin wag, natter or chat about Thesaurus Club. Retweeted by Leroy I am saying nothing

jane

25/09/2012Well said, Michael. Like you, I have no high opinion of Turnbull, an opinion which started forming around the time he eagerly smarmed his way into Howard's front bench. And that opinion was reinforced by his approval of the Bell Bay pulp mill, his rorting of the living away from home allowance and slinging his mate in the Australian Rain Corporation millions for his dodgy cloud seeding scam. Turnbull is no better than he ought to be and probably worse. The three examples above speak to me about his flexible morality and his lack of political nous and judgement, culminating in the utegate and Grech affair. When the Grech email was triumphantly brandished, I immediately smelled a rat. After all, it was a scant 6 months since Martin Hamilton-Smith had been brought down after his eager denunciation of the Rann government's alleged solicitation of funds from the Church of Scientology, using forged documents. Clearly, in light of that little lot, it would have behoved Turnbull to tread very, very carefully and do even the most cursory research into the lovely red apple he's just been handed. I think there were a lot more rats in that particular pantry, btw. I wouldn't mind betting that Liealot's allies were quietly beavering away to undermine him. Turnbull would have been better advised to have chucked Abetz, Brandis and co to the wolves before he launched into Rudd and Swan, who both looked far too smug and comfortable when they should have been chewing their fingernails down to the quick! Another red flag that Turnbull overlooked imo, was Liealot's rather odd distancing from the brawl. I remember watching him prowling around the Speaker's Box during QT, when you would have thought he'd have been baying for government blood and biting ankles. That confirmed Turnbull's lack of political nous and judgement, his arrogance, opportunism and intemperance for me and his unfitness to be LOTO, let alone PM. I agree with you. turnbull and Liealot have been cut from the same cloth and we shouldn't forget it. Unfortunately, being rolled by Liealot and his subsequent farewell speech, seems to have dazzled many of his former critics from the left, who have conveniently overlooked the faults which are still writ large. Turnbull just utters four word slogans with all the lack of substance and honesty of Liealot's three word slogans.

jane

25/09/2012Peter Wright was a loony and a liar of the first water, ToM. Another example of Turnbull's appalling lack of judgement and nous.

NormanK

25/09/2012Give Abbott some credit. He is as cunning as the proverbial outthouse rat. During his speech to the RSL today he said: [quote]Not only has the current government failed to honour its pre-election commitment to a fair deal for defence pensioners. It has recruited its parliamentary allies to vote down Coalition proposals that would hold them to their promise.[/quote] http://tonyabbott.com.au/News/tabid/94/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/8899/Address-to-2012-RSL-National-Conference-Sydney.aspx This rang a few alarm bells because I distinctly remember Wayne Swan shooting down any suggestion of changing the indexing arrangements as they applied to veterans' pensions and Labor went to the 2010 election making no such commitment. Turns out I was right: [quote]Labor fulfilled its promise to have an independent review of the indexation methods used to adjust public sector superannuation. The resulting Matthews Review recommended against changing current indexation methods, and the Government has accepted this recommendation. As responsible economic managers, given the very significant costs involved, Labor believes that now is not the time for a change in superannuation indexation.[/quote] http://www.alp.org.au/agenda/more---policies/labor’s-plan-for-veterans’-affairs/ (PDF) But a bit more digging revealed that what Abbott was referring to was a [b]2007[/b] election commitment to release the Podger Review into Military Superannuation Arrangements, a report commissioned by the Howard government but one which wasn't released prior to the election because Howard knew that it would drill a hole in the budgetary bucket that would effect it for decades. [quote]Written before the financial crisis, the Report proposed a change in indexation for some members of the Defence Force Retirement and Death Benefits (DFRDB) scheme. But the Report also recognised the significant cost of the proposal, and saw it as a low priority. After consultations on the Report, the Government decided not to follow the Podger proposals as a way forward for military superannuation. Labor fulfilled its promise to have an independent review of the indexation methods used to adjust public sector superannuation. The resulting Matthews Review recommended against changing current indexation methods, and the Government has accepted this recommendation.[/quote] (from Labor's Plan for Veterans' Affairs above) So Abbott is now criticising the Gillard government, in 2012, for supposedly not keeping an election promise made under Rudd's leadership in the 2007 campaign. Regardless of whether an argument can be made that Labor have fulfilled their commitment from 2007, is there not just a hint of double standards at work here? In 2007 the Liberal Party went to the election with a commitment regarding putting a price on carbon. Yes, they've changed leaders (as has Labor) and yes, they have since gone to another election with a different policy position (as has Labor) but surely according to Abbott Logic™ he is breaking an election promise every time he speaks out against a market-based carbon pricing mechanism. I have slandered the good name of outthouse rats everywhere and for this I humbly apologise.

NormanK

25/09/2012Turnbull fans will revel in Renai LeMay's latest offering. LeMay is normally diplomatic to the point of being infuriating when he won't call a lie a lie but prefers to describe 'potential misunderstandings' and such like. (This is to his credit, he is not a sensationalist.) Not no more. [b]Turnbull’s Quigley slander is flatly offensive[/b] by Renai LeMay Delimiter [quote]Now, it’s hard not to be staggered at the depth of Turnbull’s hypocrisy here – given the MP’s recent highly public call for Australia’s politicians to practice more “truth, leadership and responsibility”. But perhaps the Liberal MP has become used to hypocrisy in the NBN portfolio: Demanding an incredible level of financial detail on Labor’s NBN project while providing none of his own for the Coalition’s; misleading the Australian public about the Coalition’s vision of “completing” the NBN objective while actually planning to halt and dramatically modify it; personally investing in telcos rolling out fibre to the home in other countries while slamming Australia’s own fibre to the home rollout. ********** But there are few more causes more just than the defence of an innocent man; and I will not allow Turnbull to slander the NBN Co chief executive in this manner without defence. If you want to sack someone, Mr Turnbull, it is incumbent upon you to provide evidence and a rationale for doing so. Anything less is more than unethical — in our carefully regulated society, I would argue it’s criminal.[/quote] http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/25/turnbulls-quigley-slander-is-flatly-offensive/

2353

26/09/2012NormanK - a good memory and access to the internet are wonderful weapons aren't they? :D No wonder the LNP aren't all that keen on the NBN (I would talk about their policy but it changes so frequently I can't keep up). ;-)

Lyn

26/09/2012TODAY’S LINKS Baseless, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless The NSW Liberals are determined to push over Tony Abbott at every opportunity, and they know him better than anyone. You'd have to be a mug to vote for him, and I am sick to death of all this more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger crap that an Abbott government is inevitable. If the famously brutal Victorian ALP started shirtfronting Gillard in this manner, http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/baseless.html March of the News Bots , Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate Writing in Fairfax, journalist Lenore Taylor noted how easily it is now for politicians – improperly briefed and seeking to arbitrage information in a world where exclusivity is virtually non-existent – to fall flat on their faces in their bids for ‘gotchas http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/march-of-news-bots.html Study shows why misinformation works, Independent Australia the main reason that people are more likely to believe false information (for example, that climate change is a hoax) is because it actually takes less brain power to believe a statement is false than to accept it as truth. Finding the truth takes time and effort that people often don’t care enough to spend on particular issues that aren’t of immediate concern http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/environment/why-misinformation-works/ Joe Hockey’s week: flip-flopping, pwned by Penny Wong and wearing a pink tutu in Parliament, Turn Left 2013 If Tony Abbott (or Turnbull, or Hockey, or… anyone from the Liberal National Parties) forms government in 2013 – without a doubt, they will do to Australia what Campbell Newman is doing to Queensland, Barry O’Farrell is doing to New South Wales and Ted Baillieu is doing to Victoria http://turnleft2013.wordpress.com/2012/09/25/joe-hockeys-week-flip-flopping-pwned-by-penny-wong-and-wearing-a-pink-tutu-in-parliament/ Sussex Street Has Got It Wrong On Sydney, Damian Spruce, New Matilda Electors deserve the chance to express their opposition to the conservatives’ actions in the NSW Government and vote for Labor, as well as voicing their support for local and federal issues. One of the ALP’s most popular ministers, Tanya Plibersek, shares much of her electorate with the state seat of Sydney, and it is concerning that the party is losing an opportunity to build support for her before the fight against Tony Abbott. Local Labor activists are http://newmatilda.com/2012/09/25/sussex-street-has-got-it-wrong-sydney The AFR's blind spots , Gary Sauer-Thompson. Public Opinion The AFR reckons that it is focusing squarely on the quality of debate, analysis and advice that informs decision-making about public policy issues that are of vital importance to Australia’s prosperity, competitiveness and the living standards of its citizens. However, the issues it highlights are simply those of big business opposed to reform. It is about budget deficits, increasing http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2012/09/the-afrs-blind.php#more END OF DAYS? CARBON TAX SCARE PASSES INTO OBLIVION, Watching the Deniers Day after day, week after week, month after month, Tony Abbott’s opening words in parliamentary question time were almost always the same. It was almost invariably a question to put Julia Gillard on the spot on the carbon tax. http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/end-of-days-carbon-tax-scare-passes-into-oblivion/ Voting: let’s keep it compulsory, Miglo Café Whispers given that Nick Minchin has put his grubby little hands all over it I can only assume that he is doing so because voluntary voting would be in the best interests of the Coalition. His latest foray into the issue comes after an Adelaide man who lost a Supreme Court challenge against Australia’s compulsory voting system announced plans to take http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2012/09/25/voting-lets-keep-it-compulsory/ UN victory within sight, Thom Woodroofe, The Drum Despite originally lending their support to the bid, the Coalition has repeatedly taken an irrational and trivial approach to the campaign casting aside the more mature and meaningful monitoring of its conduct. And with Australia's four previous terms on the Security Council initiated, supported and conducted by both sides of the aisle, the Coalition now risks a large portion of the blame for any defeat http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4279816.html Revealed: the corporate clique ruling Australia’s private schools, Andrew Crook, Crikey MLC’s jaw-dropping board responsible for Storelli’s sacking includes Melbourne University Press CEO Louise Adler, Australia Post CEO Ahmed Fahour, KPMG media gadfly Bernard Salt, Qantas, NAB and JB Were director (and current parent) Patricia Cross, former La Trobe deputy VC Belinda Probert and ex-Crazy John’s CEO and Australia Post director Brendan Fleiter. The board was previously chaired by former Qantas chair Margaret Jackson. http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/09/25/revealed-the-corporate-clique-ruling-australias-private-schools/ Tony Abbott- One for the “True Believers”, Davie Macdonald, Escalator over the Hill So for almost the first time I am going to use (in its entirety an almost complete post from a single source and author). Guess you can say some real professional writing on this blog:) The other time was when I qualified my blog post when I wrote an article The Political Persecution of Australia’s First Female Prime Minister http://escalatoroverthehill.wordpress.com/ Open Letter to Mark Scott, David Horton, The Watermelon Man The IPA is infesting every ABC outlet with its Libertarian Free Market ideology in the service of secret Business business. What are they providing “balance” for? Have there been Marxist economists daily on the ABC I have somehow missed? Even Keynesian economists? Er no, Professor Sloan is on every week instead. Who is she “balancing”? http://davidhortonsblog.com/2012/09/25/open_letter_to_mark_scott/ There’s Always More Money For Defence, Some Aspirational, Some Real, Apparently, Aussiepollies That’s the thing about administrations of the right side of the political spectrum, there’s always space in the budget, no matter how tight or how far in deficit the fiscal position is. It’s all about appealing to the need to feel secure, that we’re being looked after and protected by a strong government from nasties within and external to the country. Of course a firm level of defense is always required, but conservative governments like to go a bit further to say the least. http://aussiepollies.com/ Turnbull’s Quigley slander is flatly offensive, Renai LeMay, Delimeter Malcolm Turnbull’s dogged attacks on the highly capable and transparent chief executive of the National Broadband Company are without basis and run contrary to the Shadow Communications Minister’s public call recently for truth, leadership and responsibility to re-enter Australia’s political sphere. http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/25/turnbulls-quigley-slander-is-flatly-offensive/ Conroy slams Coalition's NBN survey, Supratim Adhikari, Technology Spectator Despite the lack of numbers, Mr Turnbull insisted at the launch of the survey that a Coalition government will deliver cheaper broadband services to Australians far quicker than the current NBN plan.These claims have been disputed by the Labor government with Senator Conroy saying that the opposition is continuing to mislead the public with statements about consumers paying less under a Coalition NBN. http://technologyspectator.com.au/conroy-slams-coalitions-nbn-survey How long is your copper? Coalition NBN Policy, Terry Green, Tezz. id.au The cost differential for FTTC (FTTN) to FTTH be 4:1, so initial delivery may be cheaper. However the number of fiber FANs (Fiber Access Node) will presumably be similar in number to the current Labor policy NBN POIs, however the Coalition plan includes street level cabinets where the fiber changes to copper for the last mile delivery. There have been estimates of up to 74000 of these cabinets required country wide. Long term, will the initial cost savings of a Coalition plan NBN be offset by the power and maintenance costs of these cabinets? http://tezz.id.au/2012/09/how-long-is-your-copper-coalition-nbn-policy/ Today’s Front pages Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 26 September 2012 http://www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm?PaperCountry=Australia

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26/09/2012LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Michael

26/09/2012Either Lindsay Tanner's hit the bottle, or someone's hit his head. http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/labor-has-lost-its-purpose--and-soul-20120925-26jjk.html?#comments Lots of comments over there, including this one from me. Tanner seems to offer a brokenbacked argument about Labor relevance that relies on the continuing existence of 'poor and struggling masses' as the only engine for social reform. Australia and Australians cannot avoid a general increase in affluence - we are one of the lucky countries that the developing world models itself on in terms of citizens' capacity to consume. Therefore, if there's less dirt under the fingernails, forelocks aren't greasy from constant tugging, there are three cars in the garage and Bali looks good these hols, then a socially responsible, and progressive party, has to (coining a phrase) move forward to embrace the reality that does remain: Conservatives continue to wish those fingernails to be dirty, those forelocks to be tugged, that the 'engine' of this nation be a compliantly 'flexible' workforce. That doesn't mean Labor has to be reactionary, it simply means partnership with the socially motivated and civic-minded citizenry of Australia must be recast to a mould not job-lot shaped by poverty and the barricades. The times they are definitely a'changing... but they always have been, and 'now' is never the time to lament a longed-for past. Leave that to the Conservatives.

Tom of Melbourne

26/09/2012Yeah, anyone who criticises the ALP and- • the grubby control exercised by power brokers and hacks • the knifing of Rudd by Gillard • its lack of political direction …has lost their marbles. Lindsay Tanner is obviously the latest example.

Michael

26/09/2012ToM, hi. You got that Right.

LadyInRed

26/09/2012NormanK Thanks for the Turnbull Quigley slander link....very interesting. It would seem Turnbull is trying to play both sides of the fence. He knows his quiet demeaner and his general appearance is of someone who is above gutter politics and appeals to the community. While all the time he is riding on the back of the wrecker and joining in where it suits him. You think he would have learned, if not from watching TAbbott, then at the very least the Grech affair. I haven't read Tanners latest book, but I am betting it will come with some bias. You cannot write a book that has no controversy, it wont sell, so best cash in on the growing trend of Labor bashing. Unfortunately his book came out just when TAbbott bashing became vogue (that is not to say that scrutiny of TAbbott is not warrented and long overdue). But I am betting a book on TAbbott would sell more copy at the moment. It is just not true to say that Labor has no purpose. Honestly this almost smacks of more sour grapes and hatred of a woman in power. The NBN, the focus on education if not for our future and for the good of the country then for what? Honestly this country has to be dragged kicking and screaming into reality....education is everything, whether you are poor or rich! With a country that is so vast what better way to ensure the future education and health of our nation than with the fastest NBN we can afford. He resigned because he knew he was going to lose his seat to Bandt (in my opinion). And then there is Keven?....says everything to me.

LadyInRed

26/09/2012Michael Liked your comment on Tanner. Well said.

jane

26/09/2012Yes, I agree wrt Rudd, ToM. Any organisation or political party which removes a CEO who is both ineffectual and impossible to work with is very naughty and should be punished severely.

Lyn

26/09/2012Good Morning Ad & Everybody Twitterverse for you:- Bushfire Bill Posted Wednesday, September 26, 2012 at 8:15 am | Permalink Regular as clockwork, Ruddstoration rears its ugly head on the Wednesday before Newspoll, while Gillard’s away overseas. Rudd tells us he’s a happy little Vegemiter, mucking in to save Labor from the dastardly Campbell Newman and Tanner goes out to say it’s all been a terrible mistake to get rid of him in the first place. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2012/09/24/essential-research-55-45-to-coalition-6/#comment-1419622 TheFinnigans Mr Rudd told ABC no more #Ruddstoration to ensure Labor wins the 2013 elec http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/rudd-mucking-in-to-thwart-abbott-20120925-26i5w.html#ixzz27WE1wO92 @jesswrightstuff hey jess, have a good day The Daily Telegraph‏ Gillard's economic response to Tanner http://bit.ly/URFtLB Marian Rumens‏ Next attack on Labor will be #MaxineMcKew who didn't like #KevinRudd being ousted. Any other ex-Labor lined up to bag their former party? FlashboardWars‏ theage: 'Galahs' need to stop criticising Labor, says Carr http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/galahs-need-to-stop-criticising-labor-says-carr-20120926-26k3w.html” They should be like the brolga and remain balanced. Ben Eltham‏ Lindsay Tanner keeper of the Labor flame? He quit a government that needed him and went to work for a merchant bank Werner & Ursula‏ ALP polls up and suddenly Ruddsters appear. Understand Oz et al, but not ABC. Manipulated or conspirators?# Frank Calabrese‏ amworldtodaypm And Their ABC dutifully aiding the spear carrier Tanner and his manlove for the Ruddashian You guys REALLY want Abbott !!!!! Labor has lost its purpose – and soul, Phillip Coorey http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/labor-has-lost-its-purpose-x2013-and-soul-20120925-26jjk.html#ixzz27W6hCMjZ The Australian‏ Public 'sick' of internal Labor critics: BOB Carr has called for senior Labor figures to stop criticising the AL... http://bit.ly/Q7P10p Channel Nine on brink as banks circle The private equity owners of the broadcaster were locked in talks to stop the banks from taking charge, seeking breathing room to restructure nearly $4 billion worth of debt http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/channel-nine-on-brink-as-banks-circle-20120925-26jpx.html#ixzz27W53q2BH Daniel Piotrowski‏ Minister's son given $100k+ plum job. His only experience was working at Toys R Us. For real. http://www.news.com.au/business/worklife/crime-and-misconduct-commission-looking-into-appointment-of-arts-minister-r Miss Eagle‏ Apparently Alan Jones has apologised to Ramjan on air. #auspol Accepts she is not a liar - which implies?? Jane Wray‏ RT @couriermail North Queensland wants to go it alone and create its own economic zone | The Couri.. http://bit.ly/P0D2Rj Chris Johnson‏ You have nothing to fear, Newman tells public service: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/you-have-nothing-to-fear-newman-tells-public-service-20110404-1cv6x.html Anyone remember this pledge - clearly Campbell doesn't.

LadyInRed

26/09/2012I'm with Bob Carr - Tanner and anyone else who wants to bash Labor for their own personal gain - your not helping - but of course this is not about helping its about cashing in and lining your own coffers off the backs of your once collegues. I really can't imagine a single male politician past or present who could do what this PM does on a daily basis: handling an aggressive and unrelenting wrecker of an opposition, a hostile MSM, hostile collegues past and present, independents, a hung parliament, personal attacks on how she looks, mysogynists and nutjobs.....she is amazing.

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26/09/2012Hi Lyn Another great set of links and Twitterverse. As usual Mr Denmore is spot on in his concluding paragraph: “[i]We can invent all the newsbots we like, but what people want from journalism is rather old fashioned – reliability, context, explanation, insight and understanding delivered in an engaging way. That hasn’t changed. Has it?”[/i] And that is [b]not[/b] what we get from most contemporary journalists. Those who find Malcolm Turnbull an acceptable alternative Opposition Leader ought to reflect on his behaviour towards Mike Quigley as he attempts to smear his reputation for political purposes, and remember his central role in the Grech affair. There is a lot of talk about Lindsay Tanner’s new book, and on cue the media has picked up on his criticism of Labor and the decision to remove Kevin Rudd, to the exclusion to the rest of his book. For example, there seems to be almost no media comment about Tanner’s trenchant criticism of ‘government by opinion polls’, and the focus of the media on polls for political purposes. I have maintained for years that poll-driven politics, a product of our MSM, is a curse, and that until political parties can break free from the influence of polls, we will continue to see the distorting effect of weekly polls on public policy development. Julia Gillard presses on regardless of the polls, as she should. The Tanner book will be a one-day wonder; I suspect it will have little influence on the public’s opinion of the Government. Those who disliked the manner of Kevin Rudd’s removal will have their views reinforced; those who don’t hold this view, won’t be persuaded otherwise.

TalkTurkey

26/09/2012Hail Comrades I've been writing here less over the past few weeks, spending too much time on Twitter to which a certain peregrinacious Canary got me addicted. If Poll Bludger is a fast-flowing river, then The Political Sword (always my best-beloved) is a thoughtful meandering Murray-Darling, but Twitter is a white-water-rapid trip. But there is no doubt it is influential, and it will not be denied. Lyn is using it as no-one else could, what she does is magic. She is making a serious contribution to the Government's re-election fortunes. I've tweeted lots in the last few months, and I will soon show you some of the last little while's results just from me to the Twitterverse, but it takes some cleaning up of all the superfluous Twitter-blurb that is attached to each Tweet and I'm in a car and running out of battery. (My own RV has an inverter, I can go all day.) In the meantime while I've been writing so little here I am quite dismayed that TPS hasn't lain down and died, au contraire like the Australian economy since the introduction of the price on carbon it's burgeoning! . . . [i]Bugger![/i] :) If yous haven't got onto Twitter yet, well, do! It's fun and dynamic, and it is splendidly complementary in its function to The Political Sword.

NormanK

26/09/2012[b]Abbott now a man on a mission[/b] by Ben Packham The Australian [quote]TONY Abbott has come up with new positive sales pitch to voters, declaring he is on "a mission to rebuild Australia". The new form of words, road-tested in Brisbane today, follows relentless Labor attacks on his political “negativity”. “I regard myself as on a mission,” the Opposition Leader said. “A mission to rebuild Australia; to rebuild family budgets by ending Labor's unnecessary taxes; to rebuild the infrastructure that families use by ending Labor's neglect; to rebuild border security by stopping Labor's boats; and above all to rebuild trust by ending Labor's lies.” Mr Abbott made the comments at a suburban pool in the knife-edge Labor-held seat of Moreton, where he attributed a $2000 a month increase in the venue's electricity costs to Labor's carbon tax. Despite his new spin on the political contest, he maintained the carbon tax was a “wrecking ball through the economy”.[/quote] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/abbott-now-a-man-on-a-mission/story-fn59niix-1226481714055 This is the full article no need to follow the link (paywalled). It looks as though Mr Abbott has been forced out of the corner of the ring where he has been copping such a pasting. Hemmed in by carbon tax rhetoric on one side and border protection dog-whistling on the other, he has been unable to free his arms on any other topic (apart from scoring points with judges who are already in his corner). I suspect this was not a decision of his own making, rather a firm push between the shoulder-blades has been applied by his trainers. I look forward to Anthony Albanese trading some body blows over Abbott's 'mission' to "rebuild infrastructure that families use by ending Labor's neglect". Wayne Swan will come out swinging over "unnecessary taxes". The 'trust' and 'lies' issue leaves him open to a few self-inflicted blows. It's time to see how Mr Abbott measures up, standing in the middle of the ring, going toe-to-toe with his opponents.

LadyInRed

26/09/2012That is one of TAbbott's problems NormanK he is always on a mission, or looking for the next mission, or looking for ways to spruik 'his' mission - never mind if the mission is to the detriment of the country. He has spent his whole life being misguided by missions, stop the gays, stop the communists, stop abortion, stop the progressives, stop feminism, stop the lefties, stop the..... Thats the thing with missions they tend to close off all other possibilities.

NormanK

26/09/2012LadyInRed That provides a nice segue into this article in the AFR. Is the headline and basic thrust of the puff piece a coincidence? I think not. It's vomit-inducing sycophancy so keep a bucket handy if you decide to read the entire, lengthy article. The AFR is no longer independent of partisan politics. ♫ ♬ "Have I told you lately that I love you ...." ♫ ♬ [b]Tony Abbott’s higher calling[/b] by Andrew Clark Australian Financial Review [quote]The Opposition Leader’s politics have been deeply influenced by his identification with political propagandists of the Catholic Church and his adherence to its dogma. ********** It’s the physical strength, intellect, verbal aggression, political killer instinct, narrow conservative conviction, reassurance and direction he draws from the church, that makes Abbott such a distinctive politician. Yet he himself likes to emphasise his roots in suburban Australia, where the majority of his fellow citizens, and fellow voters, reside. As he sees it, there is no need for the manufactured campaign the ‘real Julia Gillard’ tried in the 2010 election. “There are a lot of continuities in my life. No one would ever think ‘who is the real Tony Abbott?’ because the real Tony Abbott has been out there for a long, long time.[/quote] http://www.afr.com/p/lifestyle/afrmagazine/tony_abbott_higher_calling_aNGk1uJKD26R4KQ6TWkbJJ

Michael

26/09/2012Too bad that Abbott will 'naturally' treat it as a (combat) mission, which means... That leopard ain't changed no spots, man, and its s**t still stinks. "Rebuild" signals previous destruction. What's been destroyed out of Tiny's mission list? Nothing. Yep, same old stinky toothless leopard.

LadyInRed

26/09/2012Love that song NormanK - I think you are on to something with your songs. This is what I think of TAbbott and his religious nonsense: ♫ ♬ "Tiptoe through the tulips, through the tulips with me ...." ♫ ♬

Jason

26/09/2012 LIBERAL National Party MP Bruce Scott will renominate in the Queensland seat Maranoa, derailing Barnaby Joyce's plan to shift to the lower house. It's understood Senator Joyce, who had eyed the seat and the Nationals leadership, will remain in the Senate. Mr Scott said he had received very strong support across the electorate to continue providing a steady hand to ensure the Coalition wins the next election. “I have received very strong encouragement from constituents, the business community and senior colleagues as we head towards the next must-win federal election,” Mr Scott said. “I'm absolutely committed to getting the best for the electorate and will do everything I can for a change in government in Canberra.” Senator Joyce told The Australian he was preparing to issue a statement on the matter. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/veteran-bruce-scott-deals-blow-to-barnaby-joyces-ambitions-of-a-lower-house-seat/story-fn59niix-1226481886528

Gravel

26/09/2012So disappointed in Lindsay Tanner. Will it all ever end? Will Julia ever get a break? Hopefully everyone is over the Rudd stuff.

Michael

26/09/2012Quoting Lindsay Tanner here: http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/just-another-sideshow-in-the-circus-of-politics/ Malcolm Farr's article makes it pretty clear that Mister Tanner might have taken a blow to the head around wherever the memory, or perhaps, powers of discrimination, are located. The question remains, "why right now, Lindsay?". Perhaps he's been offered a seat on Shouldabeen's mooted Commission of Audit alongside that other great carper (who never could carpe diem) and financial wiz (Australia's own variation on Bernie Madoff, the figures ultimately display), Mi-ister Pe-eet-er Caustello!! If the Commission sits at a circular table, that will make concomitant jerking so much easier.

Christine H

26/09/2012Hi all, just want to say that I am a great fan of TPS and the interesting and informative commentary and links to blogs and articles. I have just about given up on expecting intelligent and balanced coverage of politics in this country by the MSM, and sadly even the ABC. So thank goodness for the serious and talented bloggers on the interwebby, more power to you I say. If the MSM business model (Channel Nine and The Australian I'm looking at you) is going down the proverbial they have no one to blame but themselves for taking their audiences for granted for so long and not waking up to the fact that we as consumers can choose to go elsewhere. Just on Lindsay Tanner, when I heard the comments from him today I must admit that my immediate reaction was here we go again, almost as predictable as people reacting with disgust when I tell them I am a Pies fan, Labor and the PM have had a positive fortnight or so, must be time to run the negative Labor Party/government story. However, I then thought hang on, this is the typical MO of the MSM, Lindsay Tanner by all accounts has been an effective member of the Labor Party and Minister, no doubt he has produced a thoughtful and considered book yet the MSM leaps upon a few words probably taken out of context, on his viewpoint about his time as a Minister and member of the Rudd government. The man is entitled to his opinion and in any event what he says is undeniably a fair assessment of what happened to Labor during the 2010 election campaign. It was completely overshadowed by the sacking of Kevin Rudd. The MSM was only interested in covering the ousting of Kevin Rudd not policy announcements all the while smarting over the fact that none of the so called insiders had the scoop on the biggest political story in years. Since the leadership showdown earlier this year we have learnt a little more about the reasons Kevin Rudd lost support inside the party, but the manner in which he was deposed and scant information given at the time and perception of party disunity did not play well in the electorate hence the result of a hung parliament. Whether or not Kevin Rudd could have led Labor to a convincing win in 2010 is just conjecture just as we cannot know with certainty if the Libs would have fared better under Malcolm Turnbull's leadership. Anyway, I will reserve my judgement on Lindsay Tanner's foray into the political sphere today until after I read his book.

NormanK

26/09/2012Another take on another bit of Abbott's speech to the RSL yesterday. [b]Going Mad With Drones: The Tony Abbott Formula[/b] by Binoy Kampmark Scoop Independent News [quote]“Global Hawke unmanned aerial vehicles, which in a day can undertake detailed surveillance of 40,000 square nautical miles, could help to protect the oil and gas projects on the North West Shelf as well as allow much earlier detection of illegal boat arrivals”[/quote] [Mr Abbott said] [quote](Sep 25). Having scolded the current Australian government for not purchasing “Made in Australia” weapons of death, he proceeds to extol the virtues of “American made”. You can’t have it all. ********** Given the penny pinching regimes that are in place at the moment, US manufacturers are going to have to make the Global Hawke a very attractive proposition. Each vehicle costs, at current pricing, $US218 million. The more humble, though less grandiose killer – the Reaper – is a mere $US28 million.[/quote] http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00156/going-mad-with-drones-the-tony-abbott-formula.htm

Ad astra

26/09/2012Christine H Welcome to [i]The Political Sword[/i] family. Do come again. Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I have always admired Lindsay Tanner and enjoyed his first book. Like you, I will read his second with interest. It was inevitable that our superficial MSM would focus on his two pages of comments about Kevin Rudd, and the Labor Party, and ignore the tilt he made at the contemporary preoccupation with polls. Lindsay Tanner argues that political parties and the media use polls as if they had predictive value, which they do not this far from the next scheduled election. Trends give better information. Polls have a poisonous effect on our politics, as I argued in [i]How opinion polls poison politics[/i]: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2012/02/10/How-opinion-polls-poison-politics.aspx and [i]We are being conned by the polls – The Tarot Cards of politics[/i]. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2012/03/01/We-are-being-conned-by-the-polls-–-the-Tarot-Cards-of-politics.aspx I doubt if the story that the MSM has lit on will last more than a day or two. The rest of his book will probably get little airplay. Libbi Gorr tried to do so on ABC Melbourne radio today, but few others will bother.

LadyInRed

26/09/2012oh dear poor old Barnaby - hope he doesn't come after Truss' electorate I'll have to move : ♫ ♬ "Clean up your own backyard.....Oh don't you hand me none of your lines" ♫ ♬ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap9HLk4VHXQ

2353

26/09/2012So Lindsay Tanner has another book out - he's been busy hasn't he? The first one was actually a critical look at both sides of politics and a reasonable read. Tanner has to release his book sometime, the media will look for some criticism of the political tribe the writer used to represent and lets face it, Tanner is entitled to his opinion that Rudd could have won in 2010. Is he right, who knows - but its not going to change an election result in 12 months. A Morgan Poll was released yesterday - and while polls are only indicators etc, there is some statistical science behind them. Morgan's website reports [quote]In late September support for the L-NP is 52% (down 1.5% from last week’s face-to-face Morgan Poll) cf. ALP 48% (up 1.5%) on a two-party preferred basis according to the latest face-to-face Morgan Poll conducted last weekend, September 25/26, 2012. Today’s face-to-face Morgan Poll shows the L-NP primary vote is 41.5% (up 1% from last week’s face-to-face Morgan Poll) ahead of the ALP 37.5% (up 2.5%). Support for the minor parties has fallen with the Greens at 10% (down 2%) and Independents/ Others 11% (down 1.5%). If a Federal election were held today the L-NP would win with a slight majority according to today’s face-to-face Morgan Poll. “This continues the trend of recent face-to-face Morgan Polls showing the ALP improving its performance since the L-NP (57.5%) led the ALP (42.5%) comprehensively on the weekends of June 30/ July 1 & 7/8, 2012 — the week in which the Carbon Tax was introduced. Today’s result is the closest face-to-face Morgan Poll since March 3/4, 2012 when the L-NP (52%) cf. ALP (48%).”[/quote] I'm with AA. A 1.5% change using the same methodology in the space of a week is not necessarily statically significant (it's probably within the margin of error) but when combined with other information signals a trend as Gary Morgan rightly points out. While some may take Tanner's claim into account if they are polled by Newspoll this weekend due to media "influence", you would think that a similar number would take Abbott's ability to handle scrutiny into account. This is a storm in a teacup, I reckon if Turnbull ever writes a book - it'll be a corker and a real dump on Abbott.

LadyInRed

26/09/2012Ad I have always liked Tanner too. It has to be said that the same thing will happen with his book as that happened with Marr's essay, the media will seize on the controversy. Tanner would have known this he has been in politics long enough, but his views on Rudd are not new, nor are his views on polls. It is hard to ignore polls, I know that when they are crap I fall into the 'they are rubbish anyway' but I still get a lift when they indicate some positive signs, even though I know they are used by the LOTO and the MSM to manipulate. So it is one thing to say ignore them another to actually do it. As you say its the trend that matters, but then you start getting hooked into the trend.

Bacchus

26/09/2012 Lindsay Tanner on 730 tonight https://twitter.com/abc730/status/250875522719035392

TalkTurkey

26/09/2012LiR Just for you (K) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skU-jBFzXl0

TalkTurkey

26/09/2012LiR * Just for you (K) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skU-jBFzXl0 Note: I posted this before - it appeared for a moment - then [i]disappeared[/i] - I'm betting it returns but it's weird. Sot there'l be two copies, the first without this message.

TalkTurkey

26/09/2012Lindsay Tanner's new book: [b]How to Lose Friends and Alienate People[/b]

TalkTurkey

26/09/2012As a lay preacher of the Glory of Dog (who is Humanity's liaison to the natural world) I think this is a fine sermon: http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/for-the-love-of-dog/

TalkTurkey

26/09/2012[i]Pudsy![/i] The second such act on Britain's Got Talent (d'apres [i]Kate and Gin[/i] - 2008 finalists - who are equally brilliant. Go fetch! :) ) http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=dv_gOBi8Wpk&vq=large

TalkTurkey

26/09/2012[i]Pudsy! [/i] The second such act on Britain's Got Talent (d'apres [i]Kate and Gin[/i] - 2008 finalists - who are equally brilliant. Go fetch! :) ) http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=dv_gOBi8Wpk&vq=large

TalkTurkey

26/09/2012[i]Pudsy! [/i] The second such act on Britain's Got Talent (d'apres [i]Kate and Gin[/i] - 2008 finalists - who are equally brilliant. Go fetch! :) ) http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=dv_gOBi8Wpk&vq=large

Jason

26/09/2012Aa, Maxine Mc Que had better get her "tell all' book out quickly, the market is becoming quite crowded on the "lets slag Labor front"! Just think the publisher spent all that money for it to possibly hit the bargin bin on day one!

LadyInRed

26/09/2012Talk Turkey Thank you so much what a wonderful trip down memory lane. I had forgotten how Tiny used to blow kisses to everyone after he finished singing. What a laugh. I just finished watching 7:30. I can't believe I was actually yelling at the T.V ....go Leigh....go Leigh...good point. I think I need a sedative. I don't know what his real reason for writing that book but I think in order to believe his intentions are pure the book would have to be a freebie. Controversy = publicity and publicity = book sales. Honestly if they bring back Kevin, I will rethink my membership.

LadyInRed

26/09/2012Tanner should answered truthfully: So do you think that Julia Gillard is the worng person to lead the Labor party? No Leigh, I just want to sell some books. Why didn't oyu come out and speak up for Kevin back in February? I needed time to write it. I just want to sell some books. Why now, just when the party was getting some clear air? Labor bashing sells. I just want to sell some books. It would have been more honest than his reply to many of the questions of 'I don't know'

Patriciawa

26/09/2012Thanks, LadyInRed. Well put. Spot on. Did you see the earlier glimpse of him giving an impromptu presser, not willing to take questions and in a big hurry? He looked very uncomfortable in his skin. I hope that means he's getting lots of feedback of the kind you've given there.

NormanK

26/09/2012Having just watched the [i]7.30[/i] interview with Mr Tanner may I make this simple observation. Lindsay Tanner (as have others before him) was trying to stimulate a discussion about the movement that has manifest itself as the Australian Labor Party. It seems to be a popular reaction, of which I am guilty myself, that whenever someone mentions the ALP all thoughts fly straight to the parliamentary wing of the party and the leader. Leigh Sales could not get beyond this knee-jerk reaction which was exemplified by the number of times she said "but surely you're not saying that you can criticise the Labor Party and not criticise the leader". What I think Tanner was trying to get across tonight was that the Labor movement is so much more than just the parliamentarians - they are just the tip of the ice-berg - and the shape and ethos of that tip is shaped by the support mechanisms that lurk under the water. I'm no Labor historian but it is easy to imagine that it has taken twenty years of gradual shifts to bring about the current shape of the public face of the party. Tanner is lamenting that the urging and agitating that would once have come from the grassroots of the party is no longer as vigorous as it once was. The same sex marriage debate might be a good example of some of the last remnants of grassroots influence on party policy. Lack of any heat in the discussion of the level of NewStart is a good example of the decay that has disenfranchised the individual and collectives who were once the base of the movement. This is why he and Faulkner and others warn of the potential for there to be a lack of purpose within the ALP in 10 years time. The grassroots agitation that could//should be happening now would shape policies for the party in 2020. A football club is much more than the team that takes the field. Or the team's captain. An opera company is so much more than the singers who take the stage. Or the prima donna. The Labor movement in Australia is so much more than the MPs elected under its banner. Or the party leader. Tanner is attempting to criticise the Labor movement, [i]in toto[/i], not the current government as such.

Patriciawa

26/09/2012You are too kind to him, NormanK! I would have liked to think the best of him too, but I have to accept that this one-time Labor hero of mine is not the man I thought. I have been astonished today to read that his rivalry with Julia Gillard stretches back to before her entry into Parliament, in fact he was instrumental in preventing her pre-selection for the Senate and holding her up her progress for some years. Knowing that makes sense of his re-entry onto the political stage from the comfort of merchant banker life.

Ad astra reply

26/09/2012Folks The interview of Lindsay Tanner by Leigh Sales was a classic example of the two participants talking at cross purposes. Buoyed by her success in interviewing Tony Abbott, she figured that the aggressive approach was the way to go. It worked with Abbott, why not with Tanner? She pressed on with her notion that he must be critical of Julia Gillard if he is critical of the Labor movement. Tanner was having none of that and resisted being caught in a gotcha, so they talked at the same time for several seconds. They had quite different agendas and thus there was dissonance and an inconclusive outcome. The media's preoccupation with gotchas and scoops is not congruent with thoughtful analysis. In the same way that politicians look for ten telling seconds on evening TV, journalists look for a telling gotcha that will pump up their prestige. It's a gladiatorial contest where there will always be a loser, often two. Tonight, Leigh did not win, but neither did Tanner. The outcome was inconclusive. I'm calling it a day. Goodnight

jane

26/09/2012LIR @10.51am, I don't think a male politician has ever been subjected to such virulent hostility and negativity from all directions as has Julia Gillard. I know I can't recall such vitriolic and downright disgusting personal attacks viz the Parrot, the criminal conman Pickering and the Liars Party. [quote]“I'm absolutely committed to getting the best for the electorate and will do everything I can for a change in government in Canberra.”[/quote] Ah ha! Caught in his first lie. He's obviously committed to shafting his electorate.

TalkTurkey

27/09/2012Ad astra I read your comments on the Sales/Tanner faceoff tonight, and yes they certainly were at cross purposes, but I think the purpose was on Sales' side, the cross was ongoing anddeliberate by Tanner as he squirmed to avoid the heat of her questioning, which was pretty much along the lines of what I would have demanded of him myself. He was in denial and attempting to retreat throughout the interview. His [i]blb-blb-blb [/i]reminded me of the yellow media scrum that couldn't wait to ask the 'many unanswered questions' that they suddenly couldn't remember any of when she fronted them for an hour. Tanner didn't have a cogent point to his quiver. He good-as admitted that the Government was getting all the right things done, as is manifest anyway: we all know its great works, NBN, NDIS, BER, C-Price, Dental Scheme, MRRT, every one achieved against the most venomous possible opposition from a legion of powerful enemies . . . [i]These are all in the very best traditions of our great Australian Labor Party[/i], to which Tanner owes so much, the Party which he has now tried - [i]not for the first time, many suspect [/i]- to sell to the hypocrites on the other side. 30 pieces of silver come to mind. Well having made a Judas of himself, he could follow through afa I'm concerned. To me he's a dead man walking already. Despite his thin querulous protestations that he was all about the good of the Party, his motives - apart from cupidity - appear to be based on nothing more than longstanding personal animosity towards *J*U*L*I*A* herself: spite, and probably envy, and dare I suggest a degree of misogyny, rolled into bitter resentment pettier than seems credible in a man one would expect to be above such base passions. Simon Crean, as true a Labor heart as any imo, plainly disgusted with Tanner today, said wtte he too would have preferred Rudd at the time, but he has moved on: *J*U*L*I*A* is Our- Leader-&-Prime-Minister and that's that. Bob Carr said wtte [i]he[/i] could easily have dashed off a book slagging our battered old (but Please Dog, ever-new) Labor Party, noting quite drily what a [i]'clever'[/i] man Lindsay Tanner was - apparently so [i]'stroking'[/i] Tanner's ego - yet deftly turning that observation into an even-cleverer criticism of the man, with the subtle implication that his behaviour was really pretty poor for someone of Tanner's intellect and experience, and given how much the Party has given him. Few I think would have noted the acid edge to Carr's pronouncement, but I know one person who would have most certainly, and that is the 'clever' man at whom it was directed. On ya Bob Carr, and you did it with verve like it was second nature, it's called [i]diplomacy[/i] and you are good at it. You and Simon Crean, great stalwarts both of our great Labor Party, the kind who make us proud, even in face of shameful turncoats. Speaking of 'Turncoats', there is a term amongst a certain class of people with whom I have had close association -[i]'coating'[/i] people one despises. Simply, turning one's back on them whenever and wherever they appear. Within the confines of the particular given situation, it is [i]beyond[/i] 'sending to Coventry', it [i]damns[/i] the victim really, rather as [i]'pointem bone, burnem rag'[/i] means shame and banishment among certain indigenous peoples. Victims become invisible, inaudible, they cease to exist. Forever, until they die. I am pretty well persuaded now that amongst Labor True Believers, Lindsay Tanner is worthy of that fate. It now seems beyond doubt that all along he has been Chief Borer in the hull of the Good Ship *J*U*L*I*A*, and that is just beyond forgiveness. For with her go the fates of all of us, and of the fortunes of our noble Party. I for one will forever coat Lindsay Tanner - not that I have ever yet encountered him, but still. A working-class traitor is no thing to be.

2353

27/09/2012There is a better "Mr Tanner" story around. http://youtu.be/upZB5VlbC6o.

2353

27/09/2012Gillard's speech is going down well on ABC Breakfast. The commentary from the talking heads is that the Australian PM did well.

Lyn

27/09/2012TODAY’S LINKS Do we really need to talk about Kevin?, Jonathan Green, ABC And certainly Tanner opens himself to one obvious charge: if he is so deeply concerned by the party's future, why did he leave its parliamentary wing at a time when presumably his talents could have been put to good use in the country's service? The answer, most have always assumed, was unhappiness with the end of Rudd and a personal animosity, long established, towards the woman that replaced him http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-26/green-do-we-really-need-to-talk-about-kevin/4281548 Why the GST may not be good for us, Greg Jericho, The Drum By devising a system wherein the government gives more to someone because they earn more income, Abbott has rather uniquely proposed a way to redistribute money so as to increase the between the rich and poor, and also, according to the Productivity Commission, provide "few incremental labour supply benefits".This fact and the cost of the scheme are why it is likely to be put on the backburner should the Liberal Party gain Government http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4279782.html THE HIDE OF TANNER: Millionaire merchant banker says Labor isn’t Labor enough, Vex News A millionaire banker typing up essays on his shiny new Mac laptop from his lovely rural dacha about how Labor has lost its way to the cynical bean-counters, criticising their undoubtedly well-intentioned, nation-building, big-spending programmes as not being properly generated through ALP policy committees or whatever is more than the chutzpah we wrote earlier, it’s a political Hustle of the kind we occasionally watching on the ABC by a grifter whose only redeeming feature is a passion for the team whose heroic captain this week won the Brownlow. http://www.vexnews.com/2012/09/the-hide-of-tanner-millionaire-merchant-banker-says-labor-isnt-labor-enough/ Learnt My Lesson Well, Peter Wicks, Wixxy Leaks Since coming into office, his ministers and the government bureaucrats, you know, the “fat cats” have really felt the pinch. They have tightened the purse strings and kept a tight rein on their spending. In fact only $901 Million went on their travel expenses since Barry touched down in the Premiers chair. $901 Million? Are they trying to outspend the royal family http://wixxy.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/learnt-my-lesson-well/ Tony lil’ and the Falling Skies… I mean, Carbon Tax, Moth, New Anthropocene Abbott has slowly retreated from his usual banter over the carbon tax. I guess it sounds even sillier in retrospect when he can no longer play the scaremonger. It doesn’t change what happened or the fact that the bloke is a hypocrite on the subject. What interests me is what will happen next. Will he, like any prophet, simply shrug off his erroneous conclusions on the basis of some technicality and move faithfully onto his next dire prediction of the state of things (which, obviously, would all be undone if he were to lead http://newanthropocene.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/lil-tony-and-the-falling-skies-i-mean-carbon-tax/ IT’S TIME TO GO, Lindsay, Corrine Grant, The Hoopla Whatever he chooses to do, it should be anything apart from writing another bloody book that will only give the Liberals something to gloat about.Abbott has said that Tanner’s new book proves that the ALP is a “squalid party that wants to re-elect Julia Gillard”. (As opposed to a squalid opposition that wants to elect Tony Abbott, I suppose.)Tanner has played right into the opposition’s hands and guaranteed his name will be mentioned on the news for the rest of the week. http://thehoopla.com.au/lindsay-boring/ Clever Tanner disturbs Labor's clean air , Matthew da Silva, Happy Antipodean The ABC's Leigh Sales last night took a hard line on the point of loyalty, in the wake of dismissive rejoinders from serving Labor ministers during the day. Tanner's sangfroid in the face of Sales' spirited onslaught was admirable, but it forced him to deny any intention to resuscitate the perennial question of whether the prime minister was right to overthrow Kevin Rudd. In the absence of any knowledge of what the book contains, Sales seems to have fallen back on the now-stale leadership question, http://happyantipodean.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/clever-tanner-disturbs-labors-clean-air.html Newmania- Hostile Territory, Sal Piracha, Only the Depth Varies Now, just seven months into a three year term, even the Courier Mail readers have turned on King Campbell, with a barrage of eye-scorching negativity and poor spelling. The reason, of course, is the horror-movie brutality of his cuts to the Public Service, and his uncaring, tactless attitude. Of the first 65 comments, only 12% were supportive of King Campbell. The other 88% included former public servants who had been sacked, and current public servants who have been living under the Sword of Damocles for the past six months. Their pain show http://onlythedepthvaries.blogspot.com.au/ Report Whacking: your how-to guide on demolishing rubbish reports, Bernard Keane, crikey The tide of stupid is rising too fast. Every day, someone somewhere produces a report not with the intent of adding to the grand total of human knowledge about the objective state of the world (pffft, whatever “objective” is) but in order to influence policy in someone’s interests rather than the public interest, or to publicise themselves. And an ever-more-harried and under-resourced mainstream media lacks the resources to properly analyse these reports: there are only so many Ross Gittins and Peter Martins to go around, http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/09/26/report-whacking-your-how-to-guide-on-demolishing-rubbish-reports/ Qld a leader in solar? Not under current govt, say experts, Charis Palmer, The Conversation But in July, Queensland Premier Campbell Newman withdrew $75 million in funding from the proposed stand-alone 250 megawatt Solar Dawn project near Chinchilla.Dr Diesendorf said concentrated solar thermal could be vital to solar power generation in the longer term.“It’s not very expensive to store the heat on concentrated solar thermal and therefore have 24 hour solar power.” http://theconversation.edu.au/qld-a-leader-in-solar-not-under-current-govt-say-experts-9834 The Greens hammer major party economics, Macro Business From Christine Milne this afternoon and presented without comment: An economy that serves people and nature, not the other way around. http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/09/the-greens-hammer-major-party-economics/ Tony Abbott is Mad about Drones, Binoy Kampmark, International Policy Digest Abbott, as intending customer, sees broader purposes for these drones. By all means use them on refugees. And terrorists – or the other way around. Nuance is alien to the pugilistic Abbott, who tends to see Australia as a land in desperate need of iron cladding against fictional enemies. Nor does it consider that drones do come with their fair set of problems – witness the recent drama Israel Aerospace Industries had http://www.internationalpolicydigest.org/2012/09/25/tony-abbott-is-mad-about-drones/ Turnbull won’t disclose rival NBN policy details, Renai LeMay, Delimeter He’s continually and unfairly attacked an executive who has the respect of his industry and a huge amount of personal integrity – exactly the wrong target for Turnbull. And he’s completely ignored the issues – Nicola Roxon’s data retention scheme and Stephen Conroy’s mandatory Internet filter – which the population does want him to focus on.Right now, Malcolm Turnbull is a mess. Oppositions usually give journalists ammunition to shoot at the government. But the only ammunition coming out of the Shadow Minister’s camp right now is the kind which blows up in your face. http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/26/turnbull-wont-disclose-rival-nbn-policy-details/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed Today’s Front Pages Australia Newspaper Front Pages for 27 September 2012 http://www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/index.cfm?PaperCountry=Australia

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27/09/2012LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

jaycee

27/09/2012Have to agree (partially) with Mr. Tanner on his points here. I say "partially" because I never had any confidence in the "religious leader". I think I was fully justified when Rudd left in place all those Howard "sleepers" and "moles" who worked tirelessly to undermine the Labor Govt'. But I do support Tanner's call for a debate within the party to elevate the level of intellectual discourse in both the party and the community on political and social issues. One has to admit, if Labor doesn't tackle this dumbing down of the community discourse, who will?....Not the conservatives, they haven't the social intellect to even consider or try! And while Labor already is implementing huge and courageous policy, some of it is more economic pragmatism than social sympathy. The entire country ought to be talking humanist principles rather than "Mining, Moguls and Media".

KHTAGH

27/09/2012Ad Astra I'm glad to see you don't follow IA's lead, especially where it comes to comments being removed from their site. I thought IA was a great site until I started to notice that anyone who posts a comment contrary to Bob Ellis's rantings against Julia is removed, except MarilynS all her comments even off topic are left posted, I'm very disappointed in IA & I doubt I'll read much of what they post in future.

Lyn

27/09/2012 Smith takes Hadley to court for defamation, Loise Hall http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/smith-takes-hadley-to-court-for-defamation-20120926-26lnk.html Erratic past makes Abbott an easy target, Mark Latham,Financial Review This is a fight the opposition cannot win. For every ancient allegation against Gillard, there are dozens about Abbott, many of them more damaging to the Liberal leader’s standing than “the punch”. http://afr.com/p/opinion/erratic_past_makes_abbott_an_easy_17V1evJ7S8HmZ053IfUFNL Hi Ad Here is Twitterverse for you. I agree with your opinion of Leigh Sales last night Ad. Leigh Sales became hysterical & for the only reason , she couldn’t get Lindsay Tanner to say Julia Gillard is doing a bad job. Mark Scott‏ There's more! Full 20 minute interview between LeighSales and Lindsay Tanner will be on the ABC730 website http://bit.ly/gg14j Bushfire Bill Posted Thursday, September 27, 2012 at 10:39 am | Permalink Am I missing something? Why does she need to go by next week? Tony Abbott is the next best thing to Christ re-incarnated, where Malcolm Turnbull is a Liberal rat secretly employed by the Labor party, where Labor deliberately racked up debt simply because they could and where everyone is just “so angry” all the time. On planet Hadley, so that the reconstruction of the country (which she has ruined and destroyed) can beging before it’s too late. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2012/09/24/essential-research-55-45-to-coalition-6/?comment_page=1/#comment-1420743 Andrew Moore ‏ PM spells out case for top UN role - Fantastic Speech by the PM http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/-26lij.html … ACFID ‏ juliagillard appointed champion of UN Secretary General's global #education initiative #educationfirst http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/gillard-becomes-un-education-champion/story-e6frf7k6-1226482260690 … Mark ‏ Just got electricity A/C: Jun/Sept 2012 =$721.80 (Jun/Sept 2011 =$763.85).... So, since intro of Carbon Price my bill has gone DOWN Simon Cullen ‏@Simon_Cullen Worth a look: Has the FOI system improved under Labor? http://www.afr.com/p/national/keeping_the_lid_on_open_government_7SNEGflJ9Y9Ndd9jtEWvdL … Kevin Rudd plotting against PM – again The warning came after former finance minister Lindsay Tanner broke his two-year silence on his party's decision to dump Mr Rudd, describing it as an "extreme over-reaction" that Labor powerbrokers now regretted. Mr Tanner, who resigned the day Ms Gillard toppled Mr Rudd, made the comments in interviews to promote his new book about the Labor Party http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/kevin-rudd-plotting-agains-the-pm-again/story-fndo2iwh-1226482131373 Townsville Bulletin ‏ Another Townsville street has become involved in a feud over spy cameras http://ht.ly/e1sXF Leroy ‏ Dep Opp Leader Julie Bishop attacks WA Nats MP Tony Crook as untrustworthy for backing wheat dereg bill http://tinyurl.com/cvk88xm Axed public servants urged to look beyond Brisbane for jobs How to sack a public servant A leaked three page guide tells Queensland government managers how to sack staff, including lines such as "this might come as a shock" but premier Campbell Newman does not "see anything wrong with it : http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/axed-public-servants-urged-to-look-beyond-brisbane-for-jobs-20120926-26l51.html#ixzz27cpzBHID

TalkTurkey

27/09/2012Tanner's book: Minor tremor, no tsunami. If anything, the backwash has been good for Labor. Everybody ho-hum, ha ha. Actually brought focus on Labor's achievements. Australians wising up to Abbortt's strawman character and MSM's crap. We will come out of the LNP's whole disgraceful years-long dummyspit stronger and more intelligently sceptical than ever before.

NormanK

27/09/2012From a comment by Wixxy on his latest article: [quote]Millions of dollars of what the Liberals called waste got put into special needs schools in NSW last month This was from jobs from the BER that came in under their quotes These schools desperately needed extra funding waste indeed…. [/quote] This is what he was referring to: [b]NSW: Special schools get extra funds[/b] AAP Australian Teacher Magazine [quote]Students with complex learning needs at 16 special purposes schools in New South Wales will get improved facilities through an agreement between the state and federal governments. The schools will receive up to $80 million in reallocated funding as part of the Primary Schools for the 21st Century (P21) element of the Building the Education Revolution (BER).[/quote] http://ozteacher.com.au/html/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2003:nsw-special-schools-get-extra-funds&catid=1:news&Itemid=69 In a similar vein, here is another analysis of the BER and what lessons need to be learned from its roll-out. [b]Public works need public sector skills – the lost lessons of the BER program[/b] by Tim Roxburgh Centre for Policy Development [quote]Despite significant public attention over the last two years, the lessons of the Building the Education Revolution (BER) program remain poorly understood. While there were major differences between BER outcomes in different states, most media coverage failed to focus on the reasons why some states performed so much better than others. ********** In this paper CPD fellow Tim Roxburgh looks at moves in Australia and internationally to rebuild the skills needed for the public sector to deliver successful public infrastructure projects. He warns that hard-learned lessons on the dangers of insufficient in-house capacity may now fall victim to sweeping cuts aimed at reducing the overall size of the of the public sector wage bill.[/quote] http://cpd.org.au/2012/09/public-works-public-skills/

NormanK

27/09/2012The shorter version of Tim Roxburgh's findings on the BER and state governments reducing the public service. [b]Public service cuts may cost more than they save[/b] by Tim Roxburgh The Canberra Times [quote]As state governments set about cutting enough public servants to populate a small city, evidence from Australia's biggest school infrastructure project shows that such cuts could cost taxpayers more than they save. Despite the controversy it aroused at the time, the real lessons of the Building the Education Revolution scheme have been largely neglected, and are now gathering dust.[/quote] http://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/public-service/public-service-cuts-may-cost-more-than-they-save-20120923-26esb.html#ixzz27d4HH4zN

KHTAGH

27/09/2012TalkTurkey Did you notice the face he pulled on the 7:30 report when Leigh asked him did he feel anything over the fact that the Labor party paid him a good pension & he is now turning on it. His facial expression was "I don't give a crap"

LadyInRed

27/09/2012Leigh has a fair bit of learning to do, once she can hold her emotions better she will be a formidable interviewer. Tanner just wants to set the record straight, but by the sound of it he doesn't even know what went on. I am fairly new to trying to understand politics and I have no idea what goes on behind the scene, so in that sense I am like most of the electorate. That's why I am suspicious of Tanner's motives. I'm all for community discourse but exactly what does Tanner want from a hung parliament? Its hard to have discourse with a hostile electorate. You need to get people listening first, and the PM has been so busy just holding this parliament together coping it from all sides. No clear air and now thanks to Tanner we are once again having the Kevin talk. I think its easy to talk from a position of 'the past', just ask TAbbott he is using that as his sales pitch.

Tom of Melbourne

27/09/2012It’s interesting that so many people are now understanding the unsatisfactory structure of the ALP. Tanner is the latest example. About 10 years ago Neville Wran and Bob Hawke put together their review of the party and made a number of recommendations to re-energise the membership and branches. Nothing happened to implement it, other than the unions trashed Crean when he tried to implement a recommendation to redress the unhealthy control they exercised. Other than that, it gathered dust. Then Fawkner, Bracks and Carr tried to make some sense of the 2010 debacle. The sealed section has never been released or implemented. The critique of Tanner follows all the reports and recommendations of ALP luminaries. The outstanding character, the late John Button and former ALP National President Barry Jones have made similar comments, but the ALP just won’t face up to it’s own deficiencies because it’s the prisoner of union hacks and factional warlords. Don’t bother to continue to blame the messengers, there is now too many of them, and they’re ALP allies.

NormanK

27/09/2012Need a little light relief from the news of the day? This is a seriously hilarious video of what two newscasters get up to during a long ad break. Trust me, you won't regret following this link. http://www.goodnet.org/articles/528

Gravel

27/09/2012NormanK That is hilarious. Thanks heaps.

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27/09/2012Folks I have just posted [i]The violent clash of political ideologies[/i], which argues that most of the dissent between the major parties is ideologically driven, rather than driven by differences in policy detail. The ideological discord makes agreement on many policies near impossible. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2012/09/27/The-violent-clash-of-political-ideologies.aspx

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27/09/2012Hi Lyn I’m just catching up with your links and Twitterverse, as I’ve been preparing the piece just now posted. Jonathan Green’s article was very sound and sensible. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-26/green-do-we-really-need-to-talk-about-kevin/4281548 Bernard Keane’s piece[i]Report Whacking: your how-to guide on demolishing rubbish reports[/i] on [i]Crikey[/i], was superb. If only journalists would follow those sensible rules. He is so right when he says: “[i]… there are only so many Ross Gittinses and Peter Martins to go around, ready to call bullshit on the stuff being served up by special interests and self-promoters.”[/i] http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/09/26/report-whacking-your-how-to-guide-on-demolishing-rubbish-reports/ I couldn’t get through to the [i]Hoopla[/i] page – each time I got a 404 – page not found error. Also, I’m having trouble getting through to BB’s comments on [i]PB[/i]. Permalink is not working for me. I wonder what I’m doing wrong? I hope Ray Hadley is hit for six in the defamation case. I've got some mowing to do now. Back later.

Jason

27/09/2012ToM, Sure Labor has it's problems I don't deny that! but what I wont cop is those who have/had more power than me to implement the changes they say are needed long after they have no use for the very things that kept them there in the first place! Tanner is no different, if his left faction wasn't so piss week the right and the old DLP elements of the party wouldn't have the clout they do! So spare me please! Tanner like Button and Jones all helped in their own way to create the problems they now ( Button excluded due to his death) complain about! Also in all the years I've been a member I've never seen Jones Tanner or button (when he was alive)or any one else for that matter come to Adelaide to talk to other members who might have the same concerns as they, and start agitating at state level in every state for change. Tanner just wants to flog a book as does McKew who's married to Bob Hogg no doubt he'll be seen as an innocent by stander not a former national secretary who also done nothing about reform!

KHTAGH

27/09/2012Ad It is not just you I get the same errors too.

Tom of Melbourne

27/09/2012Jasn, • Maxine Mckew • John Button • Barry Jones • Lindsay Tanner • Bill Kelty Each of those people have been dismissed and criticised on numerous occasions here for making reasonable observations about the party to which they devoted a considerable number of years. • Bob Hawke • Neville Wran Both went to the trouble of consulting far and wide with rank and file ALP members. They wrote a lengthy report that attempted to resolve the issues ALP members had raised with them. The contemporary ALP organisation is so moribund that it made no effort to implement the recommendations that were a direct result to their consultations with the membership. • John Faulkner • Steve Bracks • Bob Carr Conducted a thorough review of the ALP. Recommendations remain unimplemented. Every single ALP figure who has made an effort to renew and reinvigorate the membership have been criticised and dismissed by people who contribute here. ALP barrackers here are advocating the continuing malaise of the ALP despite the efforts of more intelligent, experienced and committed ALP luminaries.

Jason

27/09/2012ToM, You seem to be like those you listed! I just told you of how I see things as a current paid up member of the party, only for you to ignor it so you can keep on with your talking points! Wern't you a member of the ALP once? so the going gets a bit though and you walk! another one who did nothing, no wonder you put up a list of do nothings you're one of them!

Tom of Melbourne

27/09/2012Jason, people who have devoted their personal and professional lives to the ALP are entitled to make reasonable observations about it. That’s all Tanner, and the others, did. But every hint of informed criticism is derided or condemned here. Fine, you remain a member – good for you. More people should show this type of commitment to the political process, but most prefer to chant from the sidelines.

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27/09/2012TT I agree with you assessment of the impact of the Tanner revelations. Of course Tom is ecstatic. Let him have his fun. NormanK That is beautifully choreographed, and a whole lot better than our ’opinionistas’. KHTAGH I didn’t know IA was censoring comments. That is hardly consistent with their [i]modus operandi[/i].

KHTAGH

27/09/2012Ad yes I was very surprised myself I emailed them & asked why & got an abusive email in return.

paul walter

28/09/2012Never a more stark contrast presented between what constitutes a responsible political leader and a pathological child delinquent, than last Monday's QA. Fancing thinking that a half wit like Kelly O'Dwyer is even remotely in the class as Tanya Plibersek.
What does two plus 1 equal?