How lies, deception, slogans and mantras kill the truth

The concept of ‘truth’ has exercised the minds of philosophers for centuries. Several theories of truth have been propounded, but the one that likely corresponds most closely with common understanding is what is termed ‘correspondence theory’. It says: “true beliefs and true statements correspond to the actual state of affairs.” It posits a relationship between thoughts or statements on the one hand, and things or objects on the other. It is a traditional model that goes back to some of the classical Greek philosophers such as Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. Lest we uselessly expend our thoughts and energy here on philosophical argument about the meaning of truth, for the purpose of this piece, let us accept this proposition. Anyone interested in exploring other theories of truth might enjoy reading Wikipedia’s exposition on ‘Truth’, which as a matter if interest features a classic 1737 painting by François Lemoyne Time Saving Truth from Falsehood and Envy.

In politics there is perpetual argument about what is ‘true’ that in itself is desirable, but there is a pernicious overlay – creating the ‘truth’ that a politician or party want the people to believe. This is achieved by perpetrating lies, through deliberate deception, and via slogans and mantras.

Just a few days ago there was an example of lies propagated about President Obama’s visit to India revealed in a YouTube video Rachel Maddow Explores Right Wing Lying Echo Chamber, which you can view by clicking the link.

Presenters from CNN, Fox News and the Glenn Beck Program insisted that Obama’s visit to India was costing the US taxpayer $200 million per day (another said $2 billion - maybe that was for the whole visit); that one tenth of the US Navy (34 warships) would be deployed to protect him and 40 airplanes; that 3000 people would accompany him; and that over 500 rooms had been booked at the five star Taj Mahal Palace Hotel for his entourage. When the source of these assertions was challenged, the reply was that: "it is coming out in the press" and is "on the Internet"! That of course confirmed their veracity; into what better sources could one tap? Enjoy Rachel Maddow’s ridicule of these preposterous assertions, made in all seriousness by presenters who enjoyed making hay out of them to Obama’s detriment.

Now that was in the United States of America. Surely that could not happen in Australia! Let’s see. We don’t have to go far to find that it is so. Joe Hockey alone provides us with enough examples, instances faithfully echoed by Tony Abbott and Andrew Robb.

“Labor will never bring in a surplus budget” recited over and again with great authority, is by definition a fabrication – a lie told when someone submits a statement as truth, without knowing for certain whether or not it actually is true. Hockey has no way of knowing whether or not this statement will be true, but speaks as if it already is. Said often enough, more and more people will believe it is true, and begin to repeat it themselves. What will Hockey say when the Government does bring in a surplus budget? As he is equally capable of criticizing the Government when interest rates go up as when they stay the same, it should not be difficult for him to conjure up some trenchant criticism.

“Labor cannot manage money”. How many times have we heard that slogan? No supporting evidence is deemed to be necessary, nor is contradictory evidence considered applicable. What did Labor do through the GFC? Manage money. And they did it brilliantly, placing Australia at the very top of the list of developed countries that best survived the crisis. Of course Hockey argues that almost every other factor in Australia’s success was the prime factor – a well regulated, well capitalized banking system, reforms initiated by previous governments, especially the Howard Government, and no debt at a federal level. He gives scant credit to the bank guarantee, and in particular the stimulus packages, despite all but ultra-conservative economists acknowledging the latter’s nation-saving effect, and how it kept people in work and avoided small business failures. So Joe Hockey is wrong – Labor CAN manage money; it has demonstrated this convincingly in its first term. Hockey is lying, yet many mouth this untruth as if it is true.

“Labor is addicted to spending and debt” is a mantra that falls from Hockey’s lips repeatedly; only Andrew Robb seems to say it more often. What does it mean? Addiction is a disease, defined as devoting or surrendering oneself to something habitually or obsessively. Addiction causes loss of balance and rationality. Is Hockey seriously asserting that the entire Labor movement is pathologically addicted to spending? When pressed, he reluctantly admits that stimulus spending was necessary but insists that too much was spent, thus warranting his diagnosis of addiction. While some might argue that this is a statement of opinion, not a lie, it is stated so authoritatively that it easily passes for the truth.

Hockey is an expert at deception too. He paints as grotesque the projected Government debt and the borrowing to service it, estimated by the Coalition as $100 million a day. Now that sounds an awful lot to the average householder, but when it’s pointed out that it is equivalent to someone on $100,000 a year taking out a loan for $6,000 and paying the modest interest on that sum, it no longer looks like a huge commitment. Instead of using relative figures to put the Government’s borrowing into perspective, Hockey chooses to quote absolute figures with an intent to deceive the public into thinking Labor has incurred a horrendous debt, a debt that is a tiny fraction of similar debts incurred by comparable countries. Never does he balance the eminently modest debt against the saving of hundreds of thousands of jobs and the avoidance of countless small business failures. It’s all negative, all deception.

"Government spending will lift interest rates" is what Hockey asserted a couple of nights ago on Lateline.  He said: “Australia is a massive importer of capital and as such, when you've got the economy running at full capacity, if you've got the Government borrowing $100 million a day as a AAA-rated entity in competition with small businesses out there, with home borrowers out there, it is going to put upward pressure on interest rates. There's no doubt about that.”

When Ali Moore asked: “But how much? A small impact, medium impact, big impact?” Hockey obfuscated with “Well, it - it varies. It depends on the accessibility of the money”, knowing full well that virtually every economist when asked about the impact of the Government’s borrowing on the interest rates set by the RBA and the banks, insists that it is ‘miniscule’. Yet Hockey deceptively leaves the impression that it is the Government’s borrowing that is pushing up interest rates for mortgage holders and small business borrowers.

And if you think Hockey isn’t able to deny the undeniable, listen to this exchange on the same episode of Lateline:

ALI MOORE: Just a final question. Tony Abbott says the banks never moved the mortgage rates independently of the RBA under the Howard government.

They did - twice.

Is it a great hindrance to you when you're trying to make an argument about the banks when your leader gets the facts wrong?

JOE HOCKEY: No because in fact, the truth is they did move but they reduced interest rates by more or, uh - certainly didn't increase interest rates by the same level ...

ALI MOORE: Indeed. Once they reduced them by less than the RBA. The second time, they hiked when the RBA held.

JOE HOCKEY: But on other occasions they actually reduced their interest rates by either more than the RBA or they certainly didn't pass on the RBA rate increase.

ALI MOORE: So he wasn't wrong?

JOE HOCKEY: No!

So is black really white Joe? Yes.

To return to the beginning: lies, deception, slogans and mantras DO kill the truth. Yet we see them used every day by our politicians. Is there any remedy?

The only one I can see is that we must continue to uncover the lies and deception. We must do a Rachel Maddow exposé every time they occur. We are small in number and limited in influence, but eventually the tiny Lilliputians tied Gulliver down and rendered him impotent until he gave them assurances of good behaviour in the future. We can do the same.

What do you think?

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Feral Skeleton

12/11/2010'Beauty is Truth, and Truth, Beauty'.

Feral Skeleton

12/11/2010Which is why the Coalition are ugly. :)

patriciawa

12/11/2010Feral Skeleton has already responded appropriately to this post with her indignant comment [quote]Why do people want to reward this pack of bastards with their support? www.abc.net.au/.../3064983.htm?section=justin[/quote] My own rushed response, which I have now rewritten in the light of this new post by Ad Astra, is yes that it is sickening. Hockey, Abbot and Co. accuse the government of their very own sins. It's not even as if they were idiots looking into a mirror of themselves and unconsciously reflecting what they see. These people confect anger and posture moral outrage over any issue they choose, knowing what they do. Then they accuse Gillard and Swan of just those things, thus pre-empting any challenge to their hypocrisy. It's a conscious strategy. Surely they are going to trip themselves up somewhere. We should be asking why the media is not calling the Opposition on this. The ABC story should be about Hockey's confected rage day after day for over a week now and alongside that calm image of Julia Gillard should be at least one of him with his fat blubbering lips with their sneering smile. My guess is that the ABC couldn't find a picture that suggested timidity or feigned anger on her part. But it's written into every inch of Joe Hockey's face and body language every time he appears on screen. They say the camera does not lie. Australians generally only see politicians via print and on screen. I'd like to believe that habitual liars will be outed and that ultimately those who tell truth and can look their audience in the eye will be recognised by most people of sense. Every now and then we get the kind of interviewing and filming which helps with that as searching questions are asked and facial expressions are explored by the camera. We need more of that sort of journalism. The dearth of it is what is helping to kill truth. ounou

Catching up

12/11/2010We nust also ensure that what is put forwarded as truth is put in context. We must also ensure that where truth is cherry picked, we provide the whole story. The problem is that these people very rarely lie outright. They are inclined to give part of the truth that supports their idealogy.

CALLIGULA

12/11/2010Dear AA, You forgot to mention Pontius Pilate. “What IS truth?” http://www.whatistruth.org.uk/quotesontruth.php This fixation on the press in so many blogs troubles me. Let me tell you that any group of people who’ve obstinately refused to have a go – say, at a ‘Brumby’ government’ or, as mentioned my last, a ‘Hockey team’ having, of necessity, to diversify into amateur theatrics – are downright un-Australian. That’s why they won’t give me a job as a newsreader – I’d either be on the floor chewing the carpet, convulsed with laughter or shaking my head with shame, blurting out something like – “I’m not gonna read this crock of propaganda !” But I’m an engineer by trade. ‘Truth’ to me means something entirely different than what it does to a lawyer, politician or nail technician. Matter of fact, in preference, I reckon I’d go for the nail technician’s definition. John Howard almost cracked the truth. Another three years of his chicanery and the books would have been well and “truly” rewritten. So what sort of truth are we looking for? An engineer’s ‘truth’ which if kept maintained to original ‘true’ specification stops engines on jumbo-jets from tearing apart or the sort of truth that can never be resolved or defined by eternal argument in that other sort of cockpit.

lyn

12/11/2010Hi Ad Thankyou again for writing another fantastic piece for our enjoyment, you are just the best blogg master, the most wonderful, sincere writer, I know. [quote]"How lies, deception, slogans and mantras kill the truth"[/quote] I always wonder what section of the voters are Abbott, Hockey, & Coalition trying to capture, even my daughters, who only watch the commercial news in snippets, can pick the lies, my next door neighbor only looks at the news if there is nothing else on, she picks the lies and mantra. As for Hockey saying there will never be a surplus, as you say Ad, he hasn't got ESP , today he was spitting his words and so, so, nasty & cranky. Did anyone watch ,Brian Loughnane, National Press Club Address, he spent the whole half hour talking about the Labor Government, Julia Gillard and how wonderful Abbott was during the campaign and still is. The most woeful Press Club Address I have ever watched, not once did he say what they would do, he floundered when asked about Yabsley’s claim [quote]dealing with both corporate and community fundraising, put forward since the federal election on 21 August." [/quote] How the Qld Nats soaked up $5m and killed Tony Abbott, Glenn Milne, Unleashed a calculated leak of a letter from outgoing Liberal Party treasurer Michael Yabsley aimed squarely at Federal Liberal Party director, Brian Loughnane and party president Alan Stockdale. http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41014.html For Anyone who missed it and anyone who is interested: Brian Loughnane, National Press Club Address Video Brian Loughnane. http://australianpoliticstv.org/2010/11/11/brian-loughnane-national-press-club-address/

Feral Skeleton

12/11/2010Ad Astra, I submit the Coalition's latest fabrication, confected in order to avoid the truth: As a result of the High Court's decision yesterday to overturn offshore assessment and offshore processing of asylum seekers by intermediaries, in order to keep refugees appealing their decisions, which, it has been pointed out would also apply to the Coalition's plan to house asylum seekers beyond the reach of the nation's law on Nauru, we have that vile snake who speaks with a forked tongue, Scott Morrison, coming out to say on the SBS News, "It doesn't apply to Nauru because Nauru is not classed as a place of dentention." Well, blow me down, and call me, 'Shorty', if the DETENTION CENTRE that the Coalition wants to set up on Nauru is not, "a place of detention", what the hackysack is it? A resort? Which goes to the essence of the Coalition's way with words in order to keep prosecuting their case against the government and at the same time avoiding the scrutiny that some brave souls attempt to place upon the Coalition. That is, they, and the journalists who work for them as Press Secretaries and Media Officers, appear to spend their every waking moment crafting responses to titillate the media and denigrate the government, and replies to criticism that the media attempt to direct their way. The Coalition also routinely engage in: Speciousness: an appearance of truth that is false or deceptive; seeming plausibility Synonym: meretriciousness Also, Casuistry: The term is often used in a pejorative sense to indicate specious or equivocal reasoning.The use of clever but unsound reasoning, especially in relation to moral questions.

Calligula

12/11/2010When I was much younger far too many young ladies were pre-judged to be some sort of meretrix or other. (meretrix – a lady who turned no-one away) Might have been some form of causistry or other but that was the way it panned out. With regard to adverse value judgement such contemnation – repeat contemnation was not in order and neither should such be applied now, either to weak kneed politicians nor young healthy country girls looking out for a good time. After all, in either case, truth is neither motive nor saught outcome.

Ad astra reply

12/11/2010Catching up Welcome to [i]The Political Sword[/i] . Do come back. You are right. It is the context that is important, and the whole truth, not just the bit cherry-picked to suit. CALLIGULA What a great collection! I liked particularly: [i]Truth never penetrates an unwilling mind.[/i] J. L. Borges [i]The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.[/i] Winston Churchill FS Thank you for your comments. Scott Morrison (Ban Morrison) has learned obfuscation well from his superiors. Patriciawa The ABC has become a sycophantic echo of the Coalition. How sad. Thank you Lyn for your kind comments and the link to the Milne article – our Glenn is a master at digging dirt, this time Coalition dirt.

Graeme

12/11/2010'Information on the Australian economy indicates growth around trend over the past year. Public spending was prominent in driving aggregate demand for several quarters but this impact is now lessening.' 'There is evidence that private demand is strengthening, offsetting the scaling back in public investment as stimulus projects are completed.' Both quotes are from the RBA's Novembern Statement on Monetary Policy. They are not 'cherry-picked', but reflect the general tone of the document. This gives a lie to Joe Hockey's oft repeated claims that government spending is a significant factor in increasing interest rates; yet he is not called to account for making such misleading statements. I would have thought that if I could find this information with only half an hours' research, then qualified, well paid jounalists should have no trouble doing the same.

Ad astra reply

12/11/2010Hi Lyn Thank you for the link to Brian Loughnane’s Press Club address, all twenty-eight minutes of which I endured with gritted teeth and wide-eyed amazement. It is a frightening example of how it is possible to live in a parallel universe that bears little resemblance to reality, of how wishful thinking can replace truth, about how one party, Labor, can be portrayed as hopeless and incompetent in the every way, with no redeeming features at all, while the Coalition and its leader are painted as exemplary. The contrast that Loughnane portrays is so extreme as to be ridiculous. There was no talk of anything that Tony Abbott or the Coalition did wrong or needed to remedy, only a recital of Labor’s countless defects for which presumably there is no remedy. If I were Tony Abbott, I would sack Loughnane immediately and replace him with someone in touch with reality. Otherwise the Coalition will drift along in another world of its own out of touch with its own defects and challenges and thereby unable to mount a plausible challenge to the Gillard Government.

Ad astra reply

12/11/2010Graeme Journalists are not looking for what you so easily uncovered, as it does not suit their script, a pro-Coalition, anti-Labor narrative that their superiors expect. Truth is irrelevant; it's only the perceptions they wish to create that count.

lyn

12/11/2010Hi Ad and Everybody Sunday morning TV program for you: November 11, 2010 Sunday morning TV 14 Nov - a guide to Sunday morning's political and business interviewsFull program listing available at: http://sundaymorningtv.posterous.com/ Ch10's Meet the Press has wrapped up for season 2010-scheduled return6Feb2011 8:30am Sky News 601 Australian Agenda This week on Australian Agenda, Victorian Premier John Brumby is interviewed by Peter Van Onselen and a panel of journalists headed by the Australian newspaper’s Editor at Large Paul Kelly. 8:35am Ch7 Weekend Sunrise - The Riley Diary Political editor Mark Riley takes a look at the AUSMIN talks from earlier in the week, and wraps up the week with Julia's traveling roadshow from here, there and everywhere. 8:38am Ch9 Today on Sunday - Laurie Oakes interview Laurie Oakes talks to Greens Leader and Tasmanian Senator Dr Bob Brown on Green's chances for the Victorian state election and the Gillard Government's overhaul of solar rebates. 9:00am ABC1 Insiders On Insiders this Sunday, Barrie Cassidy interviews the Shadow Immigration Minister, Scott Morrison. On the panel: political writer Kerry-Anne Walsh, the Sydney Morning Herald’s David Marr and the Daily Telegraph’s Piers Akerman. And Mike Bowers talks pictures with blogger for The Australian, Jack the Insider. 10:00am ABC1 Inside Business & on ABC News 24 @ 5.30pm This week on Inside Business an interview with Bluescope Steel Chairman Graham Kraehe, who’s also an RBA Board member and former Chairman of the NAB. Also they'll be talking banks & exit fees with prominent economist and part time mortgage broker, Dr. Nicholas Gruen. And With BHP being knocked back in Canada, a couple more iron ore miners in China’s sights & Woodside potentially on the block again, they’ll take a look at FIRB and its national interest test. And a year on from the ABC Learning crash, they’ll look at private child care.

patriciawa

13/11/2010Ad Astra - I must take you up on two points. You suggest that 'we see (them i.e. lies etc.) used every day by our politicians.' That to me, implies all or most politicians, which is not fair. I live amongst politicians and they are generally honest and trying to make a contribution. There are some politicians on the right too who don't engage in the now prevalent and relentless specious casuistry of the Opposition, and have accepted the rationalisation that it's a legitimate weapon to use in attacking the government on all fronts. I despair for the country if they retain any credibility or trust by the time of the next election. You also said that it's sad the ABC has become an echo of the Murdoch press. It's not sad, it's scandalous! Taxpayers support the ABC. We have a right to a public broadcasting system of integrity. PS Have just come home from a Fremantle community forum at the University of Notre Dame with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Kevin Rudd, at which he talked about Australia's development aid agenda, with reference to his recent visit to Pakistan. He delivered a clear, succinct and encouraging account of our aid efforts over the last decade, with due credit to 'the other mob' where due and acknowledging shortcomings of his own side when applicable. He sidestepped opportunities for negative comment and struck me as a pretty decent sort of bloke. Nothing like the person about whom Alexander Downer said, "I can tell you that Kevin Rudd is a f---ing awful person." Can I sneak in my response to him when he said that? It is sort of relevant to the 'lies' theme of this post. [quote]Reflections of Alexander Downer[/quote] Mirror, mirror, here on the wall, Who is the finest of us all? Kevin Rudd is really awful! Look, he claims it is unlawful To tell our media the truth. Think! When you’re in the polling booth Do you want to elect a man Who does the things that this guy can? Someone who will travel abroad Abetting bribery and fraud? Yet that is how he describes me! That contract with AWB Was made clandestinely by him! When hopes of leadership were slim. He thought the diplomatic corps Would appreciate him much more If he could get Sadaam Hussein To buy the best Australian grain. Yes, outrageous! Proof of it all He’s been made sick by his own gall! Mirror, mirror on the wall, you are seeing, Aren’t you, a f--king awful human being!

Bring Back Maxine

13/11/2010Hi AA Fabrication is a cornerstone of the Liberal Party playbook. A lie that makes good copy and/or soundbite is the truth!! Whether the fabrication is self contradictory or unprovable is irrelevant! In this Hockey has proven track record.. In 2007 as Minister for Workchoices he said wtte, "Wages will always be higher under Workchoices but if Labor get in there will be a wages breakout creating inflation and rising interest rates." He is a buffoon but is held afloat by a servile MSM. No wonder he is the darling of the electorate with a single digit political IQ. Who can forget Howard's immortal fabricated lie (amongst the plethora of his PMship) that " interest rates will always be lower under the Coalition"? AA you are right the Fifth Estate must safeguard the Torch of Truthfulness and let its light expose the lies and deceit that we are subjected to daily.

Feral Skeleton

13/11/2010PatriciaWA, Your poetry is awesome(to use a descriptor from the younger generations)! Using humour to deflate the pretensions of the pompous buffoons in the Coalition is one of the prongs of the pitchfork that we have to deploy, constantly, to attack them. Calm and reasoned analysis is another, both from the 5th Estate, and from our Labor politicians in government, like the case you describe with Kevin Rudd in enemy territory over there in WA. There's no flies on Kevin, that's for sure, and he has seen Tony Abbott running around the country doing his 'Town Hall' meetings in order to curry favour with the voters in order to have them onside for the next election, and kevin, being the brilliant but flawed politician that he is, has seen that and is reacting. Phew! I wonder about the state of his voice though? He was supposed to not have been able to go to Seoul and Yokohama because of a virus which took his voice away.

lyn

13/11/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]The Tao of Jeet Kune Do, Ashghebranious, Ash's Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] Politicians sway with words. Do not listen to them. Instead look at why they are using them. How you feel when you hear them speak. Do not concentrate on the pointing finger, but the goal http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com:80/2010/11/12/the-tao-of-jeet-kune-do/ [i]Tony Abbott – the meerkat of Australian politics, Massivespray, Spray of the Day[/i]Has anyone else noticed the distinct lack of appearance of Tony Abbott since the election?http://sprayoftheday.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/tony-abbott-the-meerkat-of-australian-politics/ A[i] Time to Lead, POLITICS ... with Mungo MacCallum, The Independent[/i] It’s time to take the lead and get stuck into the real bastards. http://theindependentbrisbane.blogspot.com/2010/11/time-to-lead.html [i]What Happened With The NBN This Week?, Nick Broughall, Gizmodo[/i] David Braue at ZDNet has a brilliantly insightful piece on the NBN the chances of you getting that 12Mbps speed the opposition thinks is all you need is next to zero unless you live on top of your local exchange. http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/11/what-happened-with-the-nbn-this-week-2/ [i]Pure Poison Podcast - November 12, Dave Gaukroger Pure Poison[/i] This is the first in what we plan to become a weekly feature here at Pure Poison, [b]a podcast with Jeremy and I[/b] discussing things from the last week here on the blog http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/ [i]Why Bother With Offshore Processing Now?, Daniel Ghezelbash & Mary Crock, New Matilda.[/i] important features of the regime first established by the Howard government and continued under the Rudd and Gillard governments. http://newmatilda.com/2010/11/12/why-bother-offshore-processing-now [i]Kevin, don't give up your day job: The continuing smear against The Greens, Kim, larvatus Prodeo[/i] typical fashion, Andrews’ views are the subject of a ‘news story’ by Christian Kerr in The Australian. Though Kerr doesn’t mention the presumably evil source of Andrews’ confused and meandering diatribe, http://larvatusprodeo.net/ [i]If you're a Florist, a hairdresser ... expect something from the tax Office, Peter Martin[/i] We'll have their sales by merchant card, we will compare that to the sales they report in their activity statements, and if the excess seems low we will send them a letter." http://www.petermartin.com.au/2010/11/it-youre-florist-hairdresser-expect.html [i]Expert to government: dump cash for clunkers, Bernard Keane, Crikey[/i] The Opposition, via Tony Abbott and Greg Hunt, have consistently warned that a carbon price would harm households via a rise in electricity prices, http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/12/expert-to-government-dump-cash-for-clunkers-in-favour-of-a-carbon-price/ [i]Missing Link Friday - 12 November 2010 Don Arthur, Club Troppo[/i] Richard Farmer is also critical of the Conservative government’s approach At The Stump he writes "I suppose it is the traditional Tory way. First announce budget cuts that will put hundreds of thousands out of work and then start talking about dole bludgers." http://clubtroppo.com.au/2010/11/12/missing-link-friday-12-november-2010/ [i]Julia Gillard's blight on the hill , Laurie Oakes, Herald Sun[/i] The attempt to gag the Prime Minister was unusual, rude and pretty stupid, but it held up proceedings for only a few minutes until the cross-benchers joined the Government in voting it down. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/pms-blight-on-the-hill/story-e6frfhqf-1225952895222

Feral Skeleton

13/11/2010Here is an NGO, Choice, who actually has something laudatory to say about the Gillard government's approach to Finance and economic matters(and Choice are notoriously hard to please): http://www.choice.com.au/consumer-action/money-and-rights/better-banking/better-banking-campaign/page/better%20banking.aspx

Ad astra reply

13/11/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

lyn

13/11/2010Hi Ad Our friend Chris, one of our reader blogg owners, has an interesting post this morning : [i]Electing Judges, Chris Owens, Sportolotics[/i] Tony Abbott is not a man to let an idea go to waste. It doesn’t matter to him that the idea is beyond the pale in its ridiculousness. http://sportowens.wordpress.com:80/2010/11/13/electing-judges/

Chris

13/11/2010Your totally right about the sloganeering of the coalition Ad, helped along, of course, by a compliant and at many times lazy media. They are such obvious lies, yet by repeating them over and over again, they become the truth of some, who use the same slogans in everyday conversation whenever the issue of Labor is raised. Think of parents influencing children and you get an idea how it happens. It's been the mantra that Labor can't balance the budget and can't handle money since Gough. One of the most popular of conservative slogans is, of course, that judges give out weak and lenient sentences, which is what I have written about in the item Lyn links to above. Many people accept this as the truth, which is far from what it is. So no surprises that Abbott jumped on the bandwagon of tougher sentences this week. Whatever gets him votes I guess.

Feral Skeleton

13/11/2010Another meme that has worked a treat for the Conservatives down the ages, and which reinforces in the minds of the unthinking and braindead, whenever they want to trot out a Union smear campaign, is the one I heard yesterday when I was sitting in the hairdresser with my son. An old polyester grandma walked in off the street to wait her turn, and turned to me and said(as there is a new multi-story Commuter Car Park being built across from the Shopping Centre we were at, and, might I add, obtained for the whinging electors by the former ALP MP), "You know, I just walked here past all those workers over there, and there were a lot of them, and none of them was doing any work! They were all leaning on their shovels or talking to each other." Now, this was a worksite where I have been watching that Car Park go up at the rate of knots over the last couple of months, and, it was obvious to me, if not to the old biddy, that it was lunchtime, and the guys had probably clocked off to have their lunch after a hard morning's work; however, that wasn't going to sway her from her steadfast conclusion. I could imagine that this woman was an Alan Jones habitue, and Conservative voter(sorry, I can't bring myself to call them a Liberal Party), and had swallowed their trash, hook, line and sinker. I mean, these workers were probably 'Union Thugs' in her tiny, small-minded mind. I tell you, you have to admit that for moronic slogans crafted to appeal to unthinking morons, repeated metronomically until it gets through the unexercised brain muscles of 'the mob', no one surpasses the arch-conservatives.

Acerbic Conehead

13/11/2010AA, Margaret Wolfe Hungerford said that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. For Tones, “truth” is a bit like that. Sing along with him as he laments that everyone doesn’t see things through his eyes. This ditty tries to be true, and not mendacious, to the melodies of John Lennon’s, “Give me some truth” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlzrNKN3rZI&feature=related :- ( I'm sick and tired of hearing things From Kevin-lite, always-right, ranga-headed Julia All I want is the “truth” Just gimme some “truth” :- ( I've had enough of reading things ‘Bout neurotic, robotic, no-handbag Prime Ministers All I want is the “truth” Just gimme some “truth” :- ( No fraulein-robed, dangly-earlobed, clone of Kath and Kim Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me About stopping the leaky boats Such a silly goat Hasn’t a hope! :- ( I'm sick to death of writing things Gospel truth, scripted remarks, only come back to bite me All I want is the “truth” Just speaking some “truth” now :- ( I've had enough of watching scenes Of world-stage strutting, ego-healthy, moving-forward prima-donnas All I want is the “truth” now Just gimme some “truth” And the “truth” is about meeeeeeeee...

janice

13/11/2010Good afternoon all. [quote]If I were Tony Abbott, I would sack Loughnane immediately and replace him with someone in touch with reality. Otherwise the Coalition will drift along in another world of its own out of touch with its own defects and challenges and thereby unable to mount a plausible challenge to the Gillard Government. [/quote] Heaven forbid that you ever turned into a Tony Abbott, Ad astra :) The Coalition will drift along in another world because neither they, nor their media pals, are able to mount a plausible challenge to the Gillard Government. Loughnane, Hockey and Robb are a trio of mouthpieces who are doing a reasonable job of keeping Abbott out of the limelight where he is prone to shooting himself in the foot if given free rein. The mind boggles at the thought that this poor excuse for prime ministerial material almost made it to the world stage where the leaders of other countries could never be sure that he was speaking the truth or simply bullshitting to them as he does to the people of Australia. Truth? Truth is a word no longer in the coalition vocabulary because they have ceased to understand the meaning of the word or, in fact, the necessity for the well being and prosperity of a nation that its people can be confident in the honesty and integrity of its leaders. For me, I despair that I will see in my lifetime, the tide of untruths and deceit turn back so that the light of truth and integrity can shine on our political arena. A friend of mine commented just recently that she thought Labor could consult more so that people wouldn't find it necessary to protest. (She was talking about the Adelaide Hills site for AS because she said the homes had been vacant for some 5 years and could have been used for Australian Homeless.) I've come to the conclusion that just maybe Labor consults too much so that people who can never, ever be pleased or satisfied, are encouraged to kick up merry hell. It is, I think, that if you try and please everyone you end up pleasing no-one. Perhaps it is time the Labor Party announced what they were going to do and simply telling the people the reasons why it will be good for them and the nation as a whole. Just saying what I'm thinking.

tredlgt

13/11/2010 The largest problem still seems to be the lack of ability of the journos to question or research the bull shit thrown around by the libs. Howard got away whit during his whole term in govt and his brown noses have continued. For a dozen years or so the media decided to not chase the lie, seiv 10 , WMD , Tampa even gun buyback ,fully credited to jh but only achievable because Labor premiers backed it . If MSM ever decide to once again provide a service we can depend on for factual reporting then lies might not being told. HA HA .

Ad astra reply

13/11/2010Patriciawa I’ve said many times here that in my opinion most politicians are there with a genuine desire to make a difference, to improve the lot of us all. I’ve also used the metaphor of the bell-shaped curve not just to highlight the variability of nature but also to emphasize the fact that while most people and phenomena are clustered around the centre of the curve there are the outliers who cause most of the problems. So it is a handful of lying, disingenuous politicians that give their profession a bad name. On the Coalition side, Joe Hockey, Tony Abbott, Andrew Robb, Scott Morrison and Christopher Pyne seem to be the ones most prone to handle the truth carelessly or distort it to their own ends, while in contrast Ian MacFarlane seems to be honest and genuine. On the Labor side there seem to me to be few who could be categorized as overtly dishonest. Most seem decent and straightforward. The Coalition-leaning will disagree. They might see Stephen Conroy as devious, but would they categorize Julia Gillard, Wayne Swan, Kevin Rudd, Stephen Smith, Chris Bowen, Anthony Albanese, Nicole Roxon, Jenny Macklin and the like as dishonest liars? So when I say that we see the phenomenon of lying every day from our politicians I am not tarring all with that brush. It takes but a few to blacken their name. Once again, I enjoyed your poem. Thank you.

Ad astra reply

13/11/2010Bring Back Maxine You cite some pointed examples of disingenuousness. It is curious that the wages that would ‘always be higher under WorkChoices’ would not be inflationary, but any wage rise under a Labor scheme would be. Likewise, the multiple increases in RBA interest rates that took place under the Coalition were definitely not be due to anything the Coalition had done, whereas rises under Labor are directly attributable to its ‘reckless spending’. While the internal contradiction in these propositions is obvious to anyone who cares to think about them, the failure of the MSM to point them out allows them to go unchallenged and become entrenched in the public mind as folklore.

patriciawa

13/11/2010F.S. They are ugly, aren't they? I think Malcolm Turnbull is an exception and that has a lot to do with his underlying decency which owes something to his small 'l' liberal attitudes. (I was almost going to write 'patrician' there but for obvious reasons I've desisted!) And Julie Bishop could be a beautiful woman were it not for the inner nastiness which is manifest in her facial expressions and those vindictively staring eyes. Poor Andrew Robb, though reasonably personable too, is so obviously weighed down by depression which seeps through his every pore. Medication might alleviate but it won't cure his existential angst, nor that of his bitter, twisted and bile spewing mates.

2353

13/11/2010Patriciawa observed above that [i]" Kevin Rudd. . . delivered a clear, succinct and encouraging account of our aid efforts over the last decade, with due credit to 'the other mob' where due and acknowledging shortcomings of his own side when applicable. He sidestepped opportunities for negative comment and struck me as a pretty decent sort of bloke. Nothing like the person about whom Alexander Downer said, "I can tell you that Kevin Rudd is a f---ing awful person." [/i] The Glenn Milne article Lyn linked to above spoke about Gary Hargrave - ex Liberal MP for Moreton. Moreton & Griffith (Rudd's seat) adjoin each other. Many years ago when both Rudd and Hardgrave were backbenchers - I was volunteering at an event on the boundary of both electorates they were both invited to. Hardgrave walks into the room, was introduced to me and in response was civil but hardly interested. Rudd walks in 5 minutes later, was introduced to me and expressed a real interest and support in the reasons I decided to volunteer for this organisation rather than being outside on what was a really nice South East Queensland winter day. In short Hardgrave was playing the game, Rudd was interested in the person. On another note - next time you read or hear that "the internet" reports whatever, the report could be factual and peer reviewed or it could be written by somebody after a few too many beers (or other substance). A wise person once suggested to me that unless "the internet" or the person using the "fact" can substantiate the claim made - it should be ignored.

Ad astra reply

13/11/2010Thank you Lyn for the link to Chris Owens’ piece [i]Electing Judges[/i]. Chris makes some good points, many relevant to this piece: [i]"Tony Abbott is not a man to let an idea go to waste. It doesn’t matter to him that the idea is beyond the pale in its ridiculousness. It doesn’t matter to him that the idea has been rejected by greater minds than his. It doesn’t matter to him that the idea is a reality in a country where litigation is rife, where people sue as easily as they change their clothes, where lawyers feed like sharks on the misery of people’s lives. It doesn’t matter to Tony Abbott, because all that matters to Tony Abbott is power. “We know that Tony Abbott will introduce policies that he was once publicly and vehemently opposed to. We know that Tony Abbott will lie when put on the spot. We know that Tony Abbott will flip-flop and backstab for his own political gain. We’ve seen all of this in the last twelve months so nothing should surprise us. “And so Abbott’s statement this week that if judges and magistrates keep getting it wrong and keep handing down lenient sentences, then the only possible outcome of this is a move towards an elected judiciary, is not earth shattering in any way. It doesn’t matter that it involves misrepresenting the role and power of the judiciary. It doesn’t matter that it misrepresents the facts. What matters to Abbott is that it plays on society’s fears and biases. As far as Abbott is concerned, it’s a vote winner. So therefore it must be right. One of the things that Abbott forgets, or fails to mention, is that when it comes to sentencing, judges and magistrates are constrained by legislation on what sentences they pass and what factors they take into consideration when passing those sentences.”[/i] And later in the piece: [i]“Magistrates and judges can’t move outside of these guidelines and impose harsher and tougher sentences just because they feel the weight of the community’s expectations….”[/i] Once again here is an example of blatant misrepresentation for political gain. It you want to read Chris’ whole piece, it’s here: http://sportowens.wordpress.com/2010/11/13/electing-judges/ Thank you Chris; I enjoyed too your piece: [i]” and now for this week’s stupid comment on global warming”[/i] http://sportowens.wordpress.com/2010/11/13/and-now-for-this-weeks-stupid-comment-on-global-warming/

Ad astra reply

13/11/2010HS alias FS Your story was a classic. I enjoyed your concluding sentence: [i]” I tell you, you have to admit that for moronic slogans crafted to appeal to unthinking morons, repeated metronomically until it gets through the unexercised brain muscles of 'the mob', no one surpasses the arch-conservatives.”[/i] BTW, I couldn’t find the piece on the [i]Choice[/i] website where you mentioned some unexpected praise was heaped on the Government. Surely that can’t be right. If you had listened to Brian Loughnane’s NPC address yesterday you would have heard that nothing, I really mean nothing is praiseworthy about the Labor Government at all. It is incompetent in every way, it is all bad, all hopeless. What this country needs is government by the spotless Coalition under its flawless leader, Abbott the excellent.

Michael

13/11/2010Who was that guy? Pon..? Pont..? Pontius Pilate? Yeah, him, with his question, "What is truth?". Maybe Cardinal Pell's favourite confessioner, the budgie dissimulator himself, can, with all that Jesuitical training, elucidate for us? Truth certainly seems to be but an occasional visitor to the Shadow Cabinet's table, supper being served upon it at the time or not.

Ad astra reply

13/11/2010AC Another delightful piece of doggerel – you pick your tunes so cleverly. Thank you again. janice The sentence that resonated with me was: “[i]Truth is a word no longer in the coalition vocabulary because they have ceased to understand the meaning of the word or, in fact, the necessity for the well being and prosperity of a nation that its people can be confident in the honesty and integrity of its leaders.”[/i] I share your concern about what the future holds in the face of the lies that are peddled so malevolently. I agree that instead of pussyfooting: [i]” Perhaps it is time the Labor Party announced what they were going to do and simply telling the people the reasons why it will be good for them and the nation as a whole.”[/i] tredlgt The Fourth Estate is complicit in the state of affairs that now exist, and the Murdoch Empire is up to its eyeballs in perpetrating Coalition lies; indeed it constructs them itself, as this and the previous piece shows. We can but try to mount a counter attack. If we go down, let’s do so fighting.

patriciawa

13/11/2010Feral Skeleton. Glad you liked the Downer Reflections. One hopes these things have an impact and the writing helps keep the lid on one's rage! At the time that everyone was dumping on Rudd from the left after the putsch, and the poor guy not surprisingly went down with gall bladder problems, people like Downer rushed in with their lousy lies. So I wrote this, using the beat and obvious title of the British Grenadiers song. It didn't really get an airing so I'm seizing your comment as encouragement to post it here. Anyway it too follows the theme of lies in politics. I'm glad that other people here have commented on Rudd's decency. I think he's doing a brilliant job of resurfacing with grace when even now the snide commentary and the sneers keep coming. [quote]Let's Talk of Alexander![/quote] These tales of Alexander The ALP should seize, Take him to court for slander With other lies like these. Show that for filthy rumors There’s none that can compare With the spiteful bitchy humor He delivers with a sneer. Let’s tell how Alexander Whitewashed AWB For paying out backhanders To join their treachery. So while our solder heroes Were fighting in that war Who were in fact their real foes? Downer and Co. for sure! Who showed up Alexander As traitor that he was? Rudd, man of repute grander Than most have had in Oz. But now he’s ill and troubled, Enemies all about. Still he’s not yet been that humbled He won’t call Downer out. So watch it Alexander! Kicking a man who’s down May to your own side pander, But most in Oz will frown. So don’t start counting chickens You smart arse, you'll soon see Labor’s spirit lift and quicken As Rudd returns to fight with them their common enemy!

Ad astra reply

13/11/2010HS, 2353 Thank you for your interesting descriptions of Kevin Rudd, Foreign Minister. He has always come across to me as a decent person, genuinely interested in engaging with people. Although many have criticized his politics and his [i]modus operandi[/i], only Alexander Downer has used malicious nasty language to describe him. His feelings about Rudd go back a long way. Your comment about the veracity of anything on the Internet is germane 2353. Nothing that appears in the Fourth or the Fifth Estate should go unchallenged. Verifiable evidence is always needed to support conclusions. That is what is missing so often in the MSM, where ‘fact’ and opinion are too often inextricably interwoven. But as Murdoch believes that ‘all news is a matter of opinion’, that is what we can expect to continue.

Ad astra reply

13/11/2010Michael What more needs to be said. Patricawa Them’s fighting words – good on you.

CALLIGULA

13/11/2010Dear Tredigt “For a dozen years or so the media decided to not chase the lie, seiv 10 , WMD , Tampa even gunbuyback ,fully credited to jh but only achievable because Labor premiers backed it .” Actually the gunbuyback was implemented in qld by nationals but, yes, was designed years before by the Goss lot (including skeetshooting Mr Rudd). But that isn’t the point. The important thing is that johnnie jackboot did use such a laborite scam to create precedent. In result we’ve all sorts of skullduggery happening. We have retrospective/selective legislation that is not compliant with any sort of legislative standards law. We have it applied selectively and in such ways that defies the UNHCR – http://www.unhcr.org.au/index.shtml but that doesn’t matter with ambassadors like that. We have legislation that applies to minorities (I reckon that anti-light aircraft laws would be better than anti biker laws if governments were serious about inhibiting organised crime) And retrospectively (sticking to the biker/terrorist stuff) in that a past association pre-legislation implies guilt at the present time. I’ll probably upset people if I pointed out that Australians without deep pockets have ceased being able to resort to common law relief since the incremental implementation of this sort of thing has been introduced in parallel with a pivotal change to the conduct of our courts. Judge made law has been increasingly subsumed to statute law but in this benighted country without the implementation of Civil code procedural correctness. See 7 fundamental rights - http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/MonashULawRw/1987/6.pdf See – the Australian reality – http://calligulashorse.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-part-of-this-dont-you-understand.html It’s amazing really. Amoebas are now recognised as being smart enough to manage more than simply reacting to stimuli – but according to MonashLaw – the majority of Australians can’t manage that even in their own self-interest. Such a shame.

Ad astra reply

13/11/2010Folks Out for the evening. Back tomorrow.

CALLIGULA

13/11/2010Truth - Something that needs to be taken as true. I heard a brief ABC radio report on Friday that Queenslanders eschewed buying what was once theirs. What Queenslanders own has been sold to mainly US transportation monopolies. I believe it can be said that Queenslanders see this ‘sale’ as both unlawful and outstandingly stupid. It has been suggested that the state result in the federal election was a warning for Bligh and her crew. What a bloody shame she hasn’t a Mr. Christian on board.

Feral Skeleton

13/11/2010Ad Astra, I was led to the Choice article this morning after I listened to Saturday AM, with Elizabeth Jackson(one of the best editions of the week because she is like the 'old' ABC and puts together a much more evenly-balanced program, on the whole. Anyway, I heard the spokesman from Choice make laudatory comments about PM Gillard's efforts at the G20 wrt to Consumer protection. So, I went to the Choice website and copied the link, which I saw had audio, and I presumed it was the same one I had just heard. Suffice to say, if you couldn't find the comments on the Choice audio, you will be able to listen to a podcast of Saturday AM and catch them there.

Feral Skeleton

13/11/2010Calligula, Is it not 'true', that the Coalition eschew any sort of external say so by UN-linked entities, except when it suits their ulterior motives; or the 'Right' of the UN to legislate and mandate globally-agreed Treaties? A position which came to the fore during the quasi-imperial 'rule' of the Neo Cons, led by George W.Bush? The UN was merely a, "Talking Shop", according to them, and when it came to UN Authorisation for the War in Iraq, well, who cared?

Gravel

14/11/2010Ad Astra Another excellent article. Okay, I can understand the ordinary person being brainwashed by the opposition's lies, what baffles me is the media. Surely they can see the damage that the opposition is causing. Now I feel a talking circle coming in my head. Who controls the content of the media, the editors, the owners, and what benefit will they get from a conservative government. If Abbott got his way he would only have positive articles written by the media, but what challenge does that leave to the 'journalists'. The said journalists wouldn't have any controversy to create headlines.........help me, I'm drowning in this thinking stuff. Anyway, I will keep fighting no matter what happens. One day the Australian population will look back on Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard's time in office and say, "they were the good times". Patricia, your poems are just brilliant. Lyn you find the best links. I really enjoyed the one on Abbott's latest brain explosion about the Judges being elected. How often do Judges, Magistrates ect., resign or finish their allotted time in service, how often would we have to go to the polls to elect new ones? So many questions, so few answers. People have little trust in politicians, do we want our judiciary to be in the same category as politicians? Thank you for the good stories on Rudd at a personal level. He has done so much in such a short time that is good for Australia and Australians. I read somewhere this morning that Obama has sought out Julia and has had several little chats with her at these meetings they are at.

democracyATwork

14/11/2010The same can apply to the numerous slogan advertising by the Greens. <b>This time I am going to make my vote count</b> Surely all votes count - it implies that your vote will only count of you vote Greens which is false and misleading. Advertising not just in politics is the art of making the negative sound positive. Lies become truth. The same tactic is also provided by Government departments that do not want to answer the question. In typical <i>Yes Minister<i> style if you do not like the answer avoid the question. The Australian Electoral Commission has on numerous occassion mislead the parliament in order to avoid answering the question. As long as the parliament suppports this it is never questioned as to why it failed to answer the question.

lyn

14/11/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]Talk is Cheap, Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] a version of the truth that suits their own prejudices, the need for facts and context (the old currency of journalism - however unfashionable it might be) becomes ever greater. In the absence of that need being met, one shudders at the consequences for this world. http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/ [i][b]Wonkley Nominations Closed – Voting Now Open, Notion Factory[/b][/i] Voting is now open, and will remain open until Sunday the 12th of December – so have your say http://notionfactory.net:80/2010/11/14/wonkley-nominations-closed-voting-now-open/ [i]Lost, Ashghebranious, Ash's Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] The ‘working’ class is now a large part of the growing middle class. Many who used to be in the ranks of the disadvantaged are now no longer so. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com:80/2010/11/13/lost/ [i]An “hypocrisy” Catch-22, Jeremy sear, An Onymous Lefty[/i]. A Catch-22 which keeps all the power in the hands of the powerful. They may be self-interested dickheads, but – according to their convenient definition – at least they’re not “hypocrites”. http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/2010/11/13/the-old-hypocrisy-catch-22/ [i]GetUp! accepting union donation 'hypocritical', ABC[/i] running a campaign against the Liberal Party bankrolled by the CFMEU," said Eric Abetz, Opposition Leader in the Senate. It is hypocrisy, duplicity and dishonesty." http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/13/3065531.htm [i]The Usual Leftist Hypocrisy, JR ,A western Heart[/i] The opposition leader in the Senate, Eric Abetz, said the donation showed GetUp! was nothing more than a Labor front and the advertising could have changed the election result. http://awesternheart.blogspot.com/2010/11/usual-leftist-hypocrisy.html [i]Internet speed and this blog, Neil, Neil's Second Decade[/i] See The REAL connection speeds for Internet users across the world (charts). At least Australia is much better than Kazakhstan. http://neil2decade.wordpress.com:80/2010/11/13/internet-speed-and-this-blog/ [i]Latest newspaper circulation figures: not a nice set of numbers, Margaret Simons, Crikey[/i] The bad figures put into context the anticipated moves by both News Limited and Fairfax to move towards delivery on mobile devices http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/12/latest-newspaper-circulation-figures-not-a-nice-set-of-numbers/ [i]Spinning the bad news … Ray Hadley’s decade … Rupert does lunch …, Crikey[/i] the golden dentures himself, John Laws, is mounting a comeback at low-rating 2SM in Sydney next February — at 75 years young. http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/12/media-briefs-spinning-the-bad-news-ray-hadleys-decade-rupert-does-lunch/ [i]Media Matters Chief Says He Will Lunch with Murdoch, Brian Stelter, Media Decoder[/i] Who’s coming to lunch with Rupert Murdoch? It’s David Brock, the chief executive of Media Matters, which exists in large part to criticize Mr. Murdoch’s News Corporation http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/11/media-matters-chief-says-he-will-lunch-with-murdoch/ [i]Summary of Nominations for the 2010 Victorian Election, Antony Greens Election Blog[/i] A total of 711 candidates have nominated for the 2010 Victorian election, 502 candidates for 88 seats in the Legislative Assembly and 209 for 8 Legislative Council Regions. http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2010/11/summary-of-nominations-for-the-2010-victorian-election.html [i]How the mighty fell, Possum Comitatus, Pollytics[/i] Until she stands up and says “This is about my leadership – this is bullshit” and goes for the jugular – as Rudd, Howard, Keating and Hawke all did before her, http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/11/12/how-the-mighty-fell/ [i]Will the real bastards please stand up?, Mungo MacCallum[/i] But then comes the more pertinent question: just who are the bastards he is seeking to replace, and what, if anything, do they represent? http://www.echo.net.au/opinion-piece/will-real-bastards-please-stand [i]… and now for this week’s stupid comment on global warming., Chris owens, Sportolotics[/i] Let’s hope you don’t have to ever get on a plane with this guy.The problem is that people will take this statement, from a guy who runs an airline, and runs it badly, as evidence that there is no global warming. http://sportowens.wordpress.com:80/2010/11/13/and-now-for-this-weeks-stupid-comment-on-global-warming/ [i]Electing Judges, Chris Owens, Sportolotics[/i] Tony Abbott is not a man to let an idea go to waste. It doesn’t matter to him that the idea is beyond the pale in its ridiculousness. http://sportowens.wordpress.com:80/2010/11/13/electing-judges/ [u]Might be interesting considering our story topic[/u]: It's their party and pollies will lie if they want to, Melissa Fyfe,Sunday Age Truth becomes relative and disbelief is suspended, as people say things they would never believe in the sober light of day. http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/its-their-party-and-pollies-will-lie-if-they-want-to-20101113-17rv3.html

lyn

14/11/2010Hi Gravel Thankyou for your compliment, I really do enjoy great pleasure, when our readers find the links interesting, glad you enjoyed the brain explosion story, incredible isn't it, that he/Abbott, can get away with so many throw away useless comments & lies, causing so much trouble, preying on public grievances. We are so lucky to have Ad Astra and "The Political Sword" allowing us to air our opinions to all our nice commenters. Cheers

TalkTurkey

14/11/2010Tony Abbott, look out for Scott Morrison. He is cleverer and nastier than you. Australians, look out for Scott Morrison. He is cleverer and nastier than Abbott. As Abbott wears thinner and threadbarer, the coalition will start looking around . . Their myth that Tony did such a great job in the election will ring hollow (or not ring at all, being full of crap). . . His modus operandi will seem more and more dated . . . Then he'll make a mistake and trip himself up, and the Government will at last bayonet him, and the Coalition will abandon him. Right whack. But beware what you wish for. Then who's there? It won't be Hockey. He's just too fat. I mean that in the 4th dimension. It won't be the Stare, she's too thin. That would be in the 2nd dimension. Turnbull will be in there, but he is a bit too close to decent for the Rotten Right to wear. Nobody else but Morrison, isn't it? He is urbane, nasty, assured, nasty, devious, nasty, nasty and nasty. Aussies beware of this man. He is poisonous. I'll back him as Coalition leader by mid 2012.

Bring Back Maxine

14/11/2010Feral @ November 13. 2010 12:20 PM I have to agree with AA @ November 13. 2010 03:29 PM that [b]"for moronic slogans crafted to appeal to unthinking morons, repeated metronomically until it gets through the unexercised brain muscles of 'the mob', no one surpasses the arch-conservatives"[/b] is so true & eloquent. (It really cuts the mustard so much better than "single digit political IQ") :) FS you are such a great wordsmith!! AA, (sorry off topic) I believe one of the great strengths of PS is the fact that many of the high calibre posters here are women. Lyn, Patriciawa, Janice, FS and others bring a richness of comment and perspective that other sites sadly lack. It is the progressive side of politics that attracts compassionate intelligent women and allows them to come to the fore. I think it is time for the patriarchy to move over and make way for a matriarchy, well at least share on an equal footing. :) Swordians, my avatar Bring Back Maxine aka vote1maxine is my attempt as a male to support the above sentiments and in particular to show support to Maxine McKew (which started in 2007 election). I believe that the Labor Party is poorer by her departure from public life. I would dearly love to see her return to Parliament in the future. Politics is so much more richer and interesting with women of her calibre. So to all those progressive women in politics whether in public life or the blogosphere, You go girlfriend!!

Ad astra reply

14/11/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

lyn

14/11/2010Hi Talk Turkey [quote]Nobody else but Morrison, isn't it? He is urbane, nasty, assured, nasty, devious, nasty, nasty and nasty. Aussies beware of this man. He is poisonous. I'll back him as Coalition leader by mid 2012. [/quote] Talk Turkey, I couldn't agree with more, the writing is on the wall, did you see the video clip of Abbott on the Insiders this morning, he is looking paper thin, worn out, even his voice is different. Also bravo, did you see Laurie Oakes phoned Barrie Cassidy and said Michael Kroger is talking nonsense, love it, love it, love it. Cheers

TalkTurkey

14/11/2010Lyn, this is for You. And PatriciaWA and Acerbic Conehead for their verses and parodies, and Ad astra for the site and the wisdom, and Hillbilly aka Feral Skeleton and NormanK and Nasking for the discussion, and CALLIGULA for the grunt, and all the other contributors, but Lyn, especially for You, because your links give me all the information I can handle, and more, about worthwhile Aussie political opinion, and I doubt not that the same goes for all those others I just mentioned. By your diligence Lyn we share a pool of information, not an inbreeding pool, but an ocean without limits. (Parodising "Magic" by Pilot. Too Easy! Tx Pilot. Great little song) Oh ho ho it's magic - Hello! Everything I want to know! It's magic - Hello! Everything I want to know! Soon as I awake Watching the day break Looking at my laptop in the morning Gets me out of bed Thinking in my head Lyn's Links on my laptop in the morning light! Oh Ho Ho it's magic - Hello! Everything I want to know! It's magic - Hello! Everything I want to know Any sort of day Thoughts from far away Reading on my laptop in the morning By my morning break Comments I can make Writing on my laptop in the morning light Oh Ho Ho it's magic - Hello! Everything I want to know! It's magic - Hello! Everything I want to know! I hope Julia Gillard reads Possum Comitatus, from your links Lyn, How the Mighty Fell, good stuff. Go get 'em Julia. No good being meek and gentle with these butchers.

Acerbic Conehead

14/11/2010TT, Lyn is indeed 'magic'. Thanks for the tune, keep 'em comin'.

Feral Skeleton

14/11/2010Talk Turkey, May you be the turkey that is spared every Thanksgiving. :) You've finally woken up to the manifestation of malevolo that is Scott Morrison? Back when I used to comment on Jack the Insider's blog, before he became absorbed by the Murdoch Borg, and intolerant of criticism of any Conservative politician, he asked the question, 'If not Abbott, then who?' Of course, the reflexive, unthinking rejoinder by the majority was, 'Turnbull'. Not moi. I could see, even then, back when Abbott was having so much success with making a few weedy little asylum seekers arriving by nautical means, as opposed to aeronautical means, a cause celebre in the wider community, that the individual doing the heavy lifting was Morrison. He swung that debate around like an Olympian Hammer thrower and hoiked it far away from reality, in contrast to Abbott's hysterical posturing, which would have quickly become tiresome and obviously nasty, without the intellectual heft applied to the debate by Morrison. If there was an argument that the Refugee advocates put up, which Abbott had difficulty coming up with a reply to, Morrison stepped into the breach to prevent a collapse occurring. So much so that I would assert that Tony Abbott's so-called 'miraculous resurrection of the Coalition's fortunes pre-election', was in large part due to the performance of Morrison. He provided the momentum to carry the attack into the election with seeming credibility. Yup, way back then I tipped the malevolent Mr Morrison, the epitome of everything 'The Shire', home of Cronulla, stands for(dare I say it, the Aryan ideal?), for bigger and better things in the future Liberal Party. However, as others have noted, the former member for Scott Morrison's seat, Bruce Baird, a moderate Liberal, would no doubt be shocked to see the way that man has been carrying on about the refugees. Now, if the small 'l' Liberals could just grow a pair, and let the intoxicating whiff of power be expelled from their nostrils for long enough to find their souls again, then they should bring on the debate within their own party for that soul, between the faux 'Christians', like Morrison, Abbott, Andrews et al., and those that actually want to practice what Jesus preached.

TalkTurkey

14/11/2010Tune: I Like Aeroplane Jelly Where’s Sir Ian Crisp and jj? jj and Crisp gone away? Can’t beat us on logic Can’t faze us with fear Can’t fool us with lies and Who cares if they sneer? Crispy’s self-concept’s high as his name will imply But he’s lower-case like jj (! How witty am I ! ) But where’s Sir Ian Crisp and jj? jj and Crisp gone to stay? [I really miss you two. Truth.]

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14/11/2010democracyATwork Welcome to the TPS family, and thank you for your comment. Do come again. BTW, on this site square brackets are used for emphasis tags.

TalkTurkey

14/11/2010F/HS Thanks but I tol' yous before,- I's no Turkey, I just gobble like one, Just me havin' karaoke fun; I's a LIAR Bird, would I tell a lie? Can't catch me cos I can FLY! Yes, Morrison. H'mmm . . . How we spike him bum eh? Ad, looks like you spiked the spam anyway. 'On you and The Lad.

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14/11/2010Talk Turkey What a lovely tribute you’ve made to Lyn in words and verse, which we all echo. She saves visitors to [i]TPS[/i] countless hours sifting through scores of blog sites to uncover the gold. We all appreciate the outstanding contribution she makes to [i]TPS[/i] day after day. Once parliament rises and politics settle for the Christmas - New Year period, she will need a break to refresh her energies for what promises to be a hectic political year in 2011. Your comments about Scott Morrison are perceptive. As this piece records, I count him among the Coalition’s bald-faced liars, but acknowledge the skill and panache he brings to that process. He is as convincing as a used-car salesman; only people of your perception see through him. I see HS/FS that you have been on to him for some time. Now that you and Talk Turkey have alerted us to his [i]modus operandi[/i] and electoral background, let’s watch him carefully every time he opens his mouth and call it for what it is. Today’s appearance on [i]Insiders[/i] was smooth and superficially convincing. The way he airily dismissed any suggestion that the High Court judgement was one about what happened in 2001 was indicative of his style. David Marr certainly thought it was, but Morrison will argue his case so persuasively that only the likes of Marr will challenge; Piers Akerman certainly won’t, and neither will most News Limited journalists So it will be largely up to the Fifth Estate.

Feral Skeleton

14/11/2010Interestingly, it seems as though those in the equivalent community to us in the US are noticing the mendacity multiplying on the Conservative side of politics: http://www.alternet.org/story/148826/16_of_the_dumbest_things_americans_believe_--_and_the_right-wing_lies_behind_them/?page=entire http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-11-06/obamas-tax-cut-how-rush-limbaugh-misled-the-country/?cid=hp:mainpromo2

Feral Skeleton

14/11/2010Talk Turkey, As a Liar Bird, show us your 'True Colours' with an avatar! :)

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14/11/2010Bring Back Maxine Thank you for pointing out how much our female contributors bring to this site with their insightful comments and delightful verse. We are a diverse family, and as we all know it is the women who contribute most of what goes to make families function well. As you point out, it is the combination of intelligence and compassion that makes their comments so valuable, so sensitive. So, using your words, let’s salute [i]“all those progressive women in politics whether in public life or the blogosphere.”[/i]

TalkTurkey

14/11/2010November 14. 2010 01:16 PM "Talk Turkey, As a Liar Bird, show us your 'True Colours' with an avatar! Feral Skeleton" I've tried and failed to get it up! One day . . . I'm an IT dunce and phobic with it.

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14/11/2010Gravel Thank you for your generous comments. You are prominent among our female contributors, whom we value so much. You ask: “[i]Who controls the content of the media, the editors, the owners, and what benefit will they get from a conservative government.[/i] I think we know who does and see that as THE problem, as the previous piece on the Murdoch Empire asserted. And when we recall Tony Abbott’s comment after his meeting with Rupert Murdoch, [i]”I hope he liked me.”[/i], it’s easy to anticipate how he would treat News Limited if he became PM. He would be sycophantic in the extreme and eagerly participate in mutual admiration.

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14/11/2010HS/FS Thank you for the link to [i]16 of the Dumbest Things Americans Believe -- And the Right-Wing Lies Behind Them - We’ve gone beyond Stephen Colbert's' truthiness' into a 'truth-be-damned' environment.[/i] posted on November 13 on [i]AlterNet[/i]. http://www.alternet.org/story/148826/16_of_the_dumbest_things_americans_believe_--_and_the_right-wing_lies_behind_them/?page=entire The first few paragraphs give the flavour and an inducement to read on: [i]“Americans are often misinformed, occasionally downright dumb, and easily misled by juicy-sounding rumors. But while the right wing is taking full advantage of this reality, the Left worries that calling out lies is ‘rude’. “Remember when Congressman Joe Wilson stood up during Obama’s State of the Union address and shouted ‘You lie’? he was chastised soundly by the pundit class. But mostly he drew heat for being impolite, and was compared to Kanye West and other famous interrupters. “Revisiting Wilson's foolish tirade underscores the state of our upside-down political world. Wilson shouted ‘you lie’ in the face of truth, but President Obama is hesitant to speak up when he’s being slandered with bald, glaring untruths. The dark irony will continue as the Republicans take over the House this winter and the rumors and insinuations from extremist right-wing pundits keep circulating. It feels like no one with a loud enough megaphone has the courage to call a spade a spade, or more accurately a lie a lie.”[/i] How well it fits with this present piece.

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14/11/2010Folks You may be interested in some excerpts from an article mentioned by HS that appeared in a US blog site [i]The Daily Beast[/i] titled [i]How Obama enables Rush [Limbaugh, US TV presenter][/i] by Rick Perlstein http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-11-06/obamas-tax-cut-how-rush-limbaugh-misled-the-country/?cid=hp [i]”President Obama lowered taxes. Why doesn't the country know that? “We live in a mendocracy. As in: rule by liars. “Political scientists are going crazy crunching the numbers to uncover the skeleton key to understanding the Republican victory last Tuesday. “But the only number that matters is the one demonstrating that by a two-to-one margin likely voters thought their taxes had gone up, when, for almost all of them, they had actually gone down. Republican politicians, and conservative commentators, told them Barack Obama was a tax-mad lunatic. They lied. The mainstream media did not do their job and correct them. The White House was too polite – ‘civil’, just like Obama promised – to say much. So people believed the lie. From this all else follows. “And it was all too predictable.”[/i] Perlstein notes: [i]“When one side breaks the social contract, and the other side makes a virtue of never calling them out on it, the liar always wins. When it becomes 'uncivil' to call out liars, lying becomes free. “Even worse, once lies begin to spread, they become more than rumors--they become permanent beliefs.”[/i] Perlstein goes on to say: [i]”The first caller [to Rush Limberg’s program]… took objection to Rush's argument that Obama had revealed himself in the speech as a tax-and-spend liberal. The caller quoted Obama's words: ‘Because of this plan, 95 percent of the working households in America will receive a tax cut—a tax cut that you will see in your paychecks beginning on April 1.’ (Which was true: People did.) “Rush responded, fluidly and without a gram of doubt. ‘Pay no attention to what Obama says. He means the opposite in most cases. What he says is irrelevant.’ “So the guy to whom all Republicans must kowtow on pain of political death had just laid down a marker that everything Obama said was a lie.”[/i] What we are seeing in this country replicates the strategy of the conservatives in the US of simply telling any lie that suits their purpose, knowing that the MSM will not refute it, and therefore the majority of people will believe it. This is seriously Goebbels-like. Be afraid and alert.

patriciawa

14/11/2010Be fair to Talk Turkey, FS! Most gravatars don't tell us anything at all about the true colours of their bloggers. Most are chosen, I understand to hide one's real identity. We have 'Bring Back Maxine' telling us today that she's a fellah. Nasking's bear may represent his inner roar, but my little Tacker says nothing about me, and lyn is certainly no yellow tweetie pie. A carrier pigeon might be symbolic for her. Your skeleton avatar certainly revealed the inner you - full frontal too! Maybe that explains the blackout; it's self sabotage from an unconscious need for less exposure! Interesting that even with a new identity the default avatar which has attached itself to you is roundly fleshed out! Freudian, eh? I think that TPS 'default' gravatar selector is very intuitive and the one assigned to Talk Turkey is actually a pretty good caricature of a turkey head, full face as it were. The one which attached to me for a while back there with the wink and sticking out tongue was far more accurate than dear little Tacker among the roses. And just look at jj's avatar! Don't tell me there's no intuitive force at work there. Problem is that TT's avatar doesn't travel with him beyond TPS as most of ours do. But if he mostly comments here why change? Or it could be adopted for more general use with a bit of juggling. And I do sympathise with his technology issue. Miglo helped me set up mine. He might be able to help you, FS. He's very generous and sympatico - as I'm sure you've noticed.:) = Anyway as I've said several times to an unappreciative Talk Turkey he might as well stay among the flock of those lacking gravatars since that does suit his nature.

jj

14/11/2010What do we think? How about add a little bit of balance to your piece and add some of the many fibs Julia and co have told over the years: "If the coalition gets into government they will bring back workchoices." "I promise not to impose a carbon tax." "We made $80 billion worth of savings during the election campaign." "Tony Abbott is an extremest." "Tony Abbott shouldnt meddle in the affairs of Australian women." "Tony Abbot believes climate change is quote, absolute crap, his words not mine." "To delay action on climate change is to deny its existence." "Another boat, another policy failure." etc etc etc Please dont pretend that all of this political spin and trickery just goes on in opposition taunts and interviews...because i tell you, it definitely does not. Anyway is a lie something you cannot prove, or is it something you cannot disprove? As for the quotes, 'Labor cannot manage money', and, 'Labor will never deliver a surplus budget' i dont think you could really call these either lies or truths. There is much evidence that Labor cannot manage money very well: pink bats, green loans scheme, our bid to get a seat at the UN security council etc; however they obviously can manage money to some extent. So it is just a bit of political spin; neither truth nor lie. 'Labor will never deliver a surplus budget' is sort of in the same basket as the first quote. Labor has not delivered a surplus yet (so Joe has done his budgetary history well) and it is his opinion that seeing as the figures seem to change with the wind, they will not deliver a surplus in the future. Can you prove him wrong? No. Is he right about budgets in the past? Yes (the 2008 budget does not really count as it was already in surplus, and Swan cant really take credit for not going on a spending binge as soon as they won office, because that is just a given). So really until you clear up what truth actually is it is pretty hard to judge (and if you do judge, at least acknowledge that the Labor party does just as much as the Liberal party.)

jj

14/11/2010In reply to AA, November 13. 2010 04:08 PM What evidence do you have to say that Kevin Rudd is a nice guy...the whole political journo community says that he is a selfish, manipulative, egomaniac who is not only arrogant but often down right rude. He is a weird, weird man that was dumped by his party due to the characteristics i have mentioned above; and yet you still consider him some sort of a nice, personable guy?!?!?! DOnt quite get your logic. And to all poets out there, jj is back.

CALLIGULA

14/11/2010Gravel said – “Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard's time in office and say, "they were the good times"” And – “People have little trust in politicians, do we want our judiciary to be in the same category as politicians?” I say – So if Kev or Jooles chose your judge – you’d be happy? But if, say, Tones did – you would reject their verdict out of hand? Sounds reasonable to me. But if judges/magistrates weren’t political appointments (which, I assure you, they presently are) rather were elected by the citizenry from a list of qualified candidates you still wouldn’t be happy? What if parliament members and judges both had to put their cards and qualifications on the table before a ballot? Wouldn’t that depoliticise the judiciary to some extent and aid the principle of the separation of powers? Feral Skeleton, your – “Is it not 'true', that the Coalition eschew any sort of external say so by UN-linked entities “- etc. I say – I’m sure you’d recall that The Rudd team made an arbitrary decision that we peasants had no right to have any rights. Jooles and the so called independents, we’ve been told, seem to agree with that. I believe if you read those links I supplied, above you will soon understand that ‘Common law’ (Do I have to give a definition?) is being subsumed to ‘Statute law’ in Australian jurisdictions. The fly in the ointment, grit in the oyster is the fact that sweet FA has been done in any of our courts to implement any of the inquisitorial procedural elements necessary to make for justice in any sort of Statute Law/Civil Code situation. (And before I burst a blood vessel – “Inquisitorial’ does NOT mean thumb screws and the red-hot pokers, for crying out loud.) In result we are expected to endure adversarial/judge-made-law principles being applied to legislation/statutes that, by their nature and intent, cannot be tested that way. Legislation is being applied punitively, arbitrarily, prejudiciously, often retrospectively by judges and especially magistrates who believe themselves sufficiently empowered to brook no argument. This is right old-fashioned ‘Star Chamber’ stuff created apparently by zealous, confronted, slightly inexperienced politicians; allegedly at the insistence of that conservative ‘Silent Majority’ out there somewhere. Whereas its actually bastardry perpetrated by heartless pragmatists fully aware that Australians are too busy and confused even to understand that a constitution lacking a “Statute of Rights” cannot force Civil Code procedures upon a population whose rights and liberties are defined only by the Common Law. Churchill can have the last word on that – “Laws just or unjust may govern men's actions. Tyrannies may restrain or regulate their words. The machinery of propaganda may pack their minds with falsehood and deny them truth for many generations of time. But the soul of man thus held in trance or frozen in a long night can be awakened by a spark coming from God knows where and in a moment the whole structure of lies and oppression is on trial for its life.” Dear – Bring Back Maxine – Gday, fella. Without intending disrespect – up in my part of the world I heard absolutely nothing about Maxine MP from one election to the next. I wouldn’t mind betting her ex-media colleagues had everything to do with that. I do, however, find lady politicians particularly specious, often vicious and perfectly capable of using gender micro-politics as a mask for their own prejudice and girls-only agenda. I am not suggesting they are any worse than their male colleagues. In fact, by politician’s own standards they are on par. Which makes for a continuum of denial and disenfranchisement for the most part of the population. Having said that I live in Queensland - but that Keneally sounds a saucy bint. Can we trade her for Bligh? A few more relevant Churchill quotes for AA. - “Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on. Nothing can be more abhorrent to democracy than to imprison a person or keep him in prison because he is unpopular. This is really the test of civilization. The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. There are a terrible lot of lies going about the world, and the worst of it is that half of them are true. There is no such thing as public opinion. There is only published opinion. You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.”

lyn

14/11/2010Hi Talk Turkey How nice of you,thankyou so much for your lovely poem, I appreciate it very much. [quote]Soon as I awake Watching the day break Looking at my laptop in the morning Gets me out of bed Thinking in my head Lyn's Links on my laptop in the morning light![/quote] Aren't we lucky to have all the bloggers to share such a wealth of information, what one misses the other reports, great stuff for us.

patriciawa

14/11/2010[quote]I do, however, find lady politicians particularly specious, often vicious and perfectly capable of using gender micro-politics as a mask for their own prejudice and girls-only agenda.[/quote] Calligula - would you like to back that generalisation up with some facts? Similarly this one below - [quote]The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.[/quote] I imagine the latter statement is the result of much inner reflection your part. In which case that conclusion would be inevitable.

lyn

14/11/2010Hi Democracy at Work Welcome to "The Political Sword". Thankyou for your interesting comment, we all hope you keep coming back, "The Political Sword" is enjoying a growing number of commenters, that have their own blog. [i]Antony Green's confusing flaw explanation explained in more detail by example,Democracy at work[/i] Antony Green in explanation of the Senate and Victorian upper-house counting rules tried to outline the flaw in the calculation of the Surplus Transfer value http://democracy-at-work.blogspot.com/

CALLIGULA

14/11/2010JJ says – “So really until you clear up what truth actually is it is pretty hard to judge (and if you do judge, at least acknowledge that the Labor party does just as much as the Liberal party.” I say – Some things are self-evident and here you have provided a doozy of an example. You have identified the very nature of the modern political beast. Except I would put it this way – The laborites have learned that to gain office they need make use of similar misleading stratagems that have proven successful for the other parliamentary parties. I’d hastily add that so do the Greens and their ilk. Which pretty much means if clean, cool, water is truth and Aviation gasoline is politics that not only is mixing the two impossible but the attempt inevitably pollutes the good water. Now that Calligula has said that let us go back to Churchill who was not a laborite, JJ. He said something like take a good point, speak it, repeat it again and again; then hammer it soundly home. The point I’ve been trying to hammer home is that we’ve all become somewhat self-interested and narrow minded for far too long. That lack of focus and loss of camaraderie has let us be gulled by an equally challenged select/elect who cynically treat their office as an opportunity rather than a privilege bound by duty.

CALLIGULA

14/11/2010Dear Patriciawa – Madame - My words are backed by fact published on my page. I fail to see any reason to pretend being nice about people who have treated people I love abominably. I find it particularly scurrilous for a woman to hide behind some pretence of ‘gender sensitivity’ in any dealing in this day and age when women are dying in combat in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. In fact in that regard I find the one circumstance as unnecessary and obnoxious as the other. But when it comes to the power wielded by politicians such chicanery as I mentioned is unconscionable. But the second bone of your contention – Go dig the culprit up if you like. Name of Winston Spencer Churchill He’s been a bit dead now for a few years. I would implore you to have another bash at reading my second-last since you do seem to have misunderstood. But perhaps the one that follows is couched in simpler language?

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14/11/2010jj Your arguments about Joe Hockey’s statements about Labor are dizzyingly circular. At this time of night I’m not up to the torture of refuting them. I said about Kevin Rudd: “He has always come across to me as a decent person, genuinely interested in engaging with people.” That holds true for me. Not surprisingly, Alexander Downer and Michael Kroger think differently, as you do too. CALLIGULA I liked Churchill’s: ““Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.”

lyn

14/11/2010Hi Patricia WA You little Poppy Girl, you , you didn't tell us, and I have just found your very lovely story over at "Cafe Whispers", most enjoyable, beautiful, story. I am glad I gave you a posy of roses for your birthday, because Tacker wears them, and they look so nice, poppies are special to me too, my father fought in Borneo, my mothers brother, was killed in the fall of Singapore,declared dead after 7 years. [i]From Fremantle where poppies grow and I’ve grown old but not weary., Patricia WA, Cafe Whispers[/i] I still haven’t forgiven Fraser, not for my lost birthday, but for that lost opportunity for Australia to have a proper government, a Labour one. Mine has been a privileged life, largely made possible by the Education Act of 1944. That and agreement on other major social reform legislation like the National Health Act, which gave my mother her teeth, was the result of work by the British Labour Party; all achieved in the middle of a war http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/11/13/from-fremantle-where-poppies-grow-and-ive-grown-old-but-not-weary/

Sir Ian Crisp

14/11/2010By now the masochists at TPS would be aware of the deal between News.com®™© and Apple©™® to make certain Murdoch newspapers available on the IPad. It appears that Rupert intends on turning up the pain level a couple of notches. I can see an image of Swordians on their daily commute reading the Daily Telegraph, their mouths twisted in a rictus of immeasurable pain. I caught the 7:38am train from Parramatta to the City last Wednesday and I was sitting alongside this spiv who was ‘test driving’ the DT on his IPad. He took great delight at every adverse article relating to the Bird of Paradox and members of her cabal. I confronted the man and said if he continued to read the DT I would report him to the guard. I got a good deal of support from my fellow passengers some of whom scowled at the spiv. He defied me so I worked my way to the guard’s compartment and alerted a very obliging non-English speaking (aren’t they all) guard. We returned to the carriage I had been sitting in and we confronted the spiv. Without hesitation the guard bodily ejected the passenger at Burwood. The bad news for the passenger is that the train doesn’t stop at Burwood so I guess we won’t have to worry about him for an extended period. Why can’t people be content with just reading ALP press releases? Casuistry – a very interesting word. There is a person who shall remain nameless who used a bit of casuistry to tell us that there was no such thing as a queue of people hoping to be accepted as a refugee by one of many countries. It took me about 5 minutes to find an article detailing the plight of those poor souls stuck in refugee camps waiting to be called. I had to admonish TPS’ research department for sloppy work. Some people are unable to escape their personal prison of boanthropy and some people don’t want to. Casuistry – a very interesting word indeed.

Michael

14/11/2010Oh boy did the truth get mutilated on the Channel Nine 6 PM News on Sunday night. The report from the meetings between Barack Obama and Julia Gillard included a line about the PM knowing how to speak to the US President, and then showed her simpering as she said "Thank you, Mister President". So, to those ignorant of the truth about that grab, the implication was front and centre that our PM played some sort of silly Marilyn Monroe routine out with Obama. And the truth? Julia Gillard was enacting how the American Press were making fun of an Australian photographer's saying "Thank you, Mister President", after a photo/TV opportunity with Gillard and Obama. The President had been surprised at the good manners of the Australian camera man, observing he didn't get such treatment from his own country's media. As a result, said US media is now ending photo ops with a parodical "Thank you, Mister President" chorus. Julia Gillard enacts for the information of the Australian media present just what an influence they have had on international news-gathering, displaying the tongue in cheek mockery of the US guys, and Channel Nine misrepresents her in the clip completely. To the point of trying to make her look silly, childish, and if I might suggest, as part of what I have observed as a continuing undercurrent of some coverage of her in this country, that because she is female, it is inherently impossible for her to be a 'real' leader of this nation. It is sexist, it is juvenile, and it unfortunately displays what all too often lies at the base of Australian 'culture' - that women are seen as and expected to be accessories for a bloke, little more and often a lot less. That it was a woman reporter who set up the misrepresentation, and a female news anchor on the Channel Nine newsdesk who offered no clarification after the clip had run, merely reiterates this cultural cancer. Channel Nine knowingly misrepresented an event in their story to calculatedly present the leader of this nation in a ridiculous light. That's the truth of this.

Feral Skeleton

14/11/2010Hi Ho! Sir Ian. You have heeded our siren call, I see. :) 1. I will never buy an Apple IPad. Hence I will never be drawn into Mr Murdoch's web, as you appear to hope. Still having an independant frame of mind, and actually ascribing to the Public Enemy maxim, 'Don't Believe the Hype', I cansee through the Apple to see its limitations. I have seen the future, and it is not the craggy old Mr Murdoch, nor the scraggy Mr Steve Jobs, with his over-hyped and under-delivering product. Nope, the future is Open Source, and it is Android. I will wait patiently until they have a slew of Android Tabs on the market next year, and then I will choose one from amongst the many, from which I will also be able to make my phone calls and take pictures and video, as well as do all the things that an IPad can do. Which includes a full range of Apps. One thing I will not be doing is downloading the News Ltd. App. Mr Murdoch has enough money already. If I need to read any of his journalists work, then I will read it for free from the RSS feed which I get in my Inbox daily. When I travel I will peruse the Sydney Morning Herald. :) Re: the Asylum Seeker queues. So, are you saying that you approve of Australia sourcing its refugee intake from them? All how many million of the poor, blighted souls? How unusually generous of you, Sir Ian. It's still a pity though, in my eyes, that some countries just don't have those danged 'queue' things, but do have poor, benighted souls fleeing from persecution anyway.

Feral Skeleton

14/11/2010Michael, Yes, I saw that juxtaposition too. All to paint Julia in a poor light, like the bitchy crew that Channel 9 is. And yes, in this era of Sarah Palin-induced 'Mean Girl' political positioning, it has now become other women who are sinking the slipper into those women in politics that they are reporting on, or with whom they disagree politically. Wrt Channel 9, I especially find that woman who reads the News on Sunday nights, and every morning on the Today Show, with her prominently-displayed diamond-studded cross on her chest, and her Farrah Fawcett Blond flicks, one of the most irksome newsreaders on the television at this point in time. She has her grab bag of half-sneers and looks of disgust and distaste, down pat. Not so obvious as to be plain to the casual observer, but to the perpetual watcher, such as I am, for my sins due to a son who is seemingly addicted to the Nine News, as plain as the perfectly-bobbed nose on her face. My advice to Julia, therefore, is to be on guard every waking moment of the day.

Miglo

14/11/2010I have introduced a new page on Australian Blog Sites called 'This Week's Pick'. You may be interested to see this week's recommendation. http://australianblogsites.com/?page_id=78

lyn

14/11/2010Hi Miglo Wow! thankyou so much for posting "The Political Sword" as this Weeks Pick. Great idea to post a pick of the week, well done. Australian Blog Sites looks excellent, you are doing a fantastic job Miglo, good for you. [i]This Week’s Pick, Miglo, Australian Blog Sites [/i] We at Australian Blog Sites loathe a dishonest media. The Political Sword has an excellent blog on how lies, deception, slogans and mantra kill the truth and exposes the dishonest element of the media. Blogmaster Ad astra writes that: http://australianblogsites.com/?page_id=78 Cheers

Feral Skeleton

14/11/2010I just hope someone(other than me ;) ) votes for us for the Wonkleys. :(

Acerbic Conehead

15/11/2010AA, truth is well worth promoting, and the American Tea Party people are keen to spread their message to Europe. They see Ireland as being their beach-head, and Craggy Island in particular, their preferred location. Meanwhile, the Craggy Island priests, Frs Ted Crilly, Dougal Maguire and Jack Hackett are without their loyal housekeeper, Mrs Doyle for a while. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyfm_pnPB60&feature=fvsr Mrs Doyle has gone to Rome to attend a Catholic Housekeepers’ Convention. So, Sarah Palin has successfully applied on-line for the temporary position. Mrs Palin alights from Rupert Murdoch’s submarine, which is anchored off Craggy Island and rows her rubber dinghy ashore. She lands, makes her way to the parochial house, introduces herself to her new employers, and is promptly told to get herself off to the kitchen to make some tea. She does so, wheeling it in on Mrs Doyles’ trusty tea-trolley. Mrs Palin: Glass of tea, Padres? [Mrs Palin has been warned that Fr Jack is in his usual alcohol-induced comatose state, so she doesn’t expect a response from him; but he other two don’t seem to be aware she has actually said something] Mrs Palin: Ahem! Padres! I said, would anyone like a cup of tea! Fr Ted: Ah...Mrs Palin...Fr Dougal and myself didn’t actually realise you were talking to us...You see, here in Ireland, priests are addressed as “Father”, not “padre”...So, we just presumed you were speaking to some one else...isn’t that right, Dougal? Fr Dougal: Ted...who is this woman? She’s mad! Where did she come from? She talks like someone out of Sesame Street...And where’s Mrs Doyle? Fr Ted: Mrs Doyle is on holidays, Dougal, and Mrs Palin here is her replacement...Oh, and Mrs Palin, you’ll have to remember we have milk in our tea over here...we don’t drink that American iced-tea stuff you’ve got on the trolley there... Mrs Palin: But, its just the drink you need for your climate here, pad...erm...Father...compared to Alaska, its like the tropics here... [Dougal rubs some of the condensation off the window and peers out. He sees the Abominable Snowman and Nanook of the North having a snowball fight] Fr Ted: Well, this isn’t Alaska, Mrs Palin, so... Mrs Palin: I know, Father...so I’ll just make my way back to the kitchen with the trolley... [on her way back, Mrs Palin notices one of Fr jack’s eyes fluttering. Thinking he is wakening up, she tries one more time to palm off some of her iced tea] Mrs Palin: Glass of tea, Fr Hackett? Fr Jack: FECK OFF! DRINK! DRINK! [Fr Jack, kicking the tea-trolley over and taking a swipe at Mrs Palin with his walking stick, sends her scurrying off to the kitchen at a rate of knots. In the relative tranquillity of the scullery, Mrs Palin starts to work out a plan to spread the truths of the Tea Party to the yokels of Craggy Island. These stupid priests are obviously beyond redemption, she reckons, so she will have to appeal directly to the islanders. She writes up a dozen or so advertising posters for a Tea Party to be hosted by her in the village hall: “Join the Tea Party – free tea for all new applicants”. Mrs Palin goes for a walk and fixes the posters to as many surfaces as she can find. Shortly afterwards, on her way back to the presbytery, she comes across one of the local ‘celebrities’, Tom, dressed in his usual, “I shot JR”, tee-shirt. She decides to take the mickey out of who she thinks is the village idiot] Mrs Palin: That’s a real interesting tee-shirt you’ve got on there, buddy...So, you’re the hero who rubbed out the grub, eh? Tom: Yes, that I did, ma’am – it was like putting an old dog out of its misery... Mrs Palin: Riiiiight! Now listen, bud...you could do me and the Tea Party a big favour here and act as a kinda warning system for when the boats arrive...we gotta turn them boats around, y’know... Tom: You mean the American tourist ships, ma’am? Mrs Palin: No you fool – the Mexicans- they’re invadin’ us and stealin’ our jobs... Tom: Aye, those Mexican bastards – I went to the mainland once and ate one of those chilli burgers – it blew the arse right off me – made Mt Vesuvius look like the Sea of Tranquility, it did... [so, Mrs Palin has no trouble in convincing Tom to act as sentry on the beach, looking out for the Mexican boats. She high-tails it back to the presbytery, collects her trolley, and heads off to the hall, hoping to see some customers. Upon reaching the hall, she is delighted to see a great throng awaiting her arrival – obviously, the Craggy Islanders would do anything for a free cup of tea. Mrs Palin begins to address the crowd] Mrs Palin: I’m delighted to see you folks here today for our inaugural meeting of the Craggy Island Tea Party... Islander 1: Never mind the gobshite – where’s our free cup of tea? Mrs Palin: Well...in fact it’s not a CUP of tea on offer – I only have glasses of iced tea – will that do? Islander 2: What? Iced tea? No milk? What do you take us for? [the Craggy Islanders know a fraud when they see one. They react so ferociously, they make Fr Jack look like Ronald McDonald giving away free hamburgers to orphan children. Mrs Palin runs for her life towards the beach, pursued by the angry Islanders. She jumps into her rubber dinghy and paddles like mad towards where she hopes is Rupe’s submarine still anchored over the horizon. Meanwhile, however, Tom had gone home to collect his Gattling Gun. Little did Mrs Palin know, but Tom is the genuine article crazy psychopath. Compared to Tom, Genghis Khan would look like a San Francisco flower-child. Tom arrives on the beach just as Mrs Palin is pulling well away from the shore. He can’t see who’s in the boat but, as far as he’s concerned, it’s got to be one of those Mexican people-smugglers, rowing out to the mother-ship anchored over the horizon, ready to bring even more of the bastards ashore] [postscript: a few days later, Fr Ted is in the confession box, ready to lambast any penitents unfortunate enough to drop in. Ted hates doing confessions, cos it’s always his turn. Dougal can’t be trusted as he always tells everyone he doesn’t believe in God anyway; and Fr Jack had to be barred, as he demanded a bottle of whiskey off everyone before he would give them absolution. Tom enters the confessional] Tom: Bless me, Feather...I have a terrible sin to confess, Feather... Fr Ted: And what would that be, my son? Tom: Well, Feather...I shot my Gattling Gun at one of those Mexican bastards, and I missed the whore, Feather... Fr Ted (chuckling to himself): Yes, it is a grave sin that you missed your target, my son...For your penance, go over to Rugged Island and use the gable wall of Fr Dick Byrne’s parochial house for target practice...heh...heh...Meanwhile, Mrs Doyle comes back today and I’m looking forward to getting a decent cup of tea – now that’s the only Tea Party worth attending... Tom: Aye...isn’t that the truth, Feather...

Sir Ian Crisp

15/11/2010No use of the 'P' word FS? Your post seems empty without it.

lyn

15/11/2010Hi Feral Skeleton Do you honestly believe that I wouldn't vote for us at the "Wonkley's.

lyn

15/11/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]This Week’s Pick, Miglo, Australian Blog Sites [/i] We at Australian Blog Sites loathe a dishonest media. The Political Sword has an excellent blog on how lies, deception, slogans and mantra kill the truth and exposes the dishonest element of the media. Blogmaster Ad astra writes that: http://australianblogsites.com/?page_id=78 [i]Trolling is only ever part of the story when it comes to internet discussions, Tim Dunlop, BSides[/i] sometimes it is worth playing a bit of a long game with trolls in order to encourage them into the fold. I used to try and and do this on Blogocracy (my News Ltd blog), where I personally moderated tens of thousands of comments http://tjd.posterous.com/ [i]Victorian upper house tickets: Libs put greens last, William Bowe, The Poll Bludger[/i]Twitter is also alive with talk that the policy of putting the Greens last extends to every seat in the lower house (UPDATE: Now confirmed in an AAP report). Suffice to say that this is momentous news. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/ [i]Victorian Election Thread - week 3, Dave Gaukroger, Pure Poison[/i] Coalition to put Greens last re lower house preferences in all 88 seats http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/ [i]Of course the Liberal prefer the tight-wing Labor party to the [/i] progressive Greens, Jeremy Sear, An Onymous Lefty Some good news for Labor, winning the endorsement of the conservative party: http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/ [i]Deriding Paul Howes, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless[/i] Paul Howes has shown in this piece that he can call for a debate Paul? Did you advise him not to stack his mates onto the public payroll, or are you okay with that? If he's such a great guy, why does he have to go? http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/ [i]the trilogy..., Gus, Your Democracy[/i] They lied. They went to war under false pretenses. They killed. They destroyed a country. http://www.yourdemocracy.net.au/drupal/node/11276 [i]The Trouble with Presidential rule, Paul Barratt, Australian Observer[/i] Howard’s style was Presidential, not Prime Ministerial. He was the boss, not primus inter pares leading a group of colleagues in Westminster style Cabinet Government, and so could decide things on the spot. http://aussieobserver.blogspot.com/ [i]Water in a Geo-political Context, Lindsay Fitzclarence, Arena[/i] The Murray–Darling Basin covers 1,061,469 square kilometres or approximately one-seventh (14 per cent) of the total area of Australia (7,692,024 square kilometres) http://www.arena.org.au:80/2010/11/water-in-a-geo-political-context/

Feral Skeleton

15/11/2010lyn, But of course you would vote for TPS! Hopefully, Ad Astra would too. That's 3 votes then. :)

lyn

15/11/2010Hi Feral Skeleton Yes, we need lots more, lets go get them.

lyn

15/11/2010Hi Ad and Everybody Here is the voting link: [b]The Wonkley Awards: Voting, The Notion Factory[/b] Voting will close on the 12th of December – [b]so make sure your Wonk friends don’t forget to vote too[/b]. http://notionfactory.net/wonkleysvoting/

Ad astra reply

15/11/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

Ad astra reply

15/11/2010Miglo You pay [i]TPS[/i] a great compliment by selecting it as [i]This Week’s Pick[/i] on [i]Australian Blog Sites[/i]. This is an exciting innovation, and [i]TPS[/i] is honoured to be the first selected, a tribute to all the contributors to the site. Thank you. http://australianblogsites.com/?page_id=78

Feral Skeleton

15/11/2010Phew! Tony Abbott has struck out in Queensland for once: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/gulf-widens-between-locals-and-tony-abbott-over-wild-rivers-bill/story-e6freoof-1225951504271

Feral Skeleton

15/11/2010I reckon they should have a category in 'The Wonkleys' for best Political Satire in a blog, and I know who would win hands down. Our very own Acerbic Conehead! :) His latest effort was 'Pure Comedy Gold'!

Ad astra reply

15/11/2010Folks Lyn alerted us yesterday to the [i]Wonkley Awards[/i] at [i]The Notion Factory[/i] and to the first category [i]Best Amateur Political Blog[/i] in which [i]The Political Sword[/i] is included among the thirteen nominations. As with the [i]Oscars[/i], being nominated is an honour in itself, so all who contribute and comment here are entitled to feel pleased that [i]TPS[/i] has been recognized in this way. Voting is now open in the right panel at http://notionfactory.net/2010/11/14/wonkley-nominations-closed-voting-now-open/ There are many other categories of award for which you can record a vote. This is a noteworthy innovation by [i]The Notion Factory[/i], which deserves commendation for this initiative.

Ad astra reply

15/11/2010Folks I'll be away for a few hours attending to an ill relative. Back this afternoon.

jj

15/11/2010Oops, better put that NBN on hold. Seems as though what we are doing is not just a risk, but a terrible gamble/experiment that puts at risk not only our money but also the future engagement of newly developing technologies. http://www.smh.com.au/business/oecd-takes-aim-at-labor-policies-20101114-17sqq.html

Gravel

15/11/2010Ad Astra You said in a very few words what I was trying to get at. Following your other links and your further comments, I am pleased that I am not the only one that has a fear for the future of Australian democracy. Is this the reason Murdoch and the opposition don't want the NBN, because we on the internet will still be able to have a say, and still be able to criticise the lies and deception and maybe alert more unaware people about what is happening. Oh and ofcourse, I have voted to TPS......who else would anyone else here vote for. :-)

TalkTurkey

15/11/2010"November 14. 2010 06:24 PM And to all poets out there, jj is back. jj " jj, Precious, You're BA-A-A-ACK! O joy! This is the very first time you've ever given me so much as a nod, for all the sweet lines I have penned for you! Recognition! And Limpy too! Couldn't you please write me a little rhyme? A limerick will do . . . You must know how much poetry means to a girl . . .

adelaidegirl

15/11/2010Lies and more lies have worked wrt refugees. I voted at the SA local council elections for the first time in my life this year. I live in the Adelaide Hills Council, which includes Woodside - the site of a new detention centre for families. I was disappointed by the negative responses from some of the locals so I googled the candidates and voted for the only one who had positive things to say about refugees. Actually, the only one who had anything to say at all about refugees. I learned today that he won. Yay! Chatting to a colleague I commented that I had voted for the first time. Good! she said. Yes, I said, I voted for the only one who had anything to say about refugees. Yes, she said, thank heavens some people don't feel the need to be politically correct! No, I said. I voted for him because he was pro-refugee. Blank face. So, to speak out against refugees is to be bravely politically incorrect? Wow. She just assumed that I would be anti-refugee, because aren't we all? This coming from a person who is a case manager working with people with disability and, hopefully, excercising a great deal of compassion. But not for those lousy queue jumpers, eh. jj "Tony Abbott is an extremest." A matter of opinion and one with which many, including me, would agree. "Tony Abbott shouldnt meddle in the affairs of Australian women." True, true, true. "Tony Abbot believes climate change is quote, absolute crap, his words not mine." True. janice Perhaps it is time the Labor Party announced what they were going to do and simply telling the people the reasons why it will be good for them and the nation as a whole. I couldn't agree more. It's time they stopped pandering. You can't please all of the people all of the time. You can't please a certain group of people, no matter what you do, if you are the ALP. The proposed land in Woodside is federal land. The federal government has the right to use it. They don't have to "consult" with a bunch of boneheads who are going to be against it, for whom the only acceptable outcome is "turn the boats back", like that's a solution. The government doesn't consult if it acquires land for infrastructure projects. It doesn't consult if it changes tax regimes. The government has a job to do and should get on and do it without fear or favour.

Min

15/11/2010I don't think that this one has been mentioned here but Mungo's is at: http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/15/mungo-government-cant-have-a-bob-each-way-on-boat-people/ Also quoted at Cafe Whispers is this one from Mungo from the above link. "Tony Abbott, has declared that judges are out of touch with public opinion and that unless they start listening more closely to the shock jocks should perhaps be elected rather than appointed, thus shredding the concept of the separation of powers which is the very basis of our system of government."

TalkTurkey

15/11/2010adelaidegirl, I have to say the femmes on this blogsite make me proud . . . as do those in the Government. Well said about the c'wealth owning those disused Defence Dept houses . . . The Government's responsibility, and its right, is to govern, and it is obvious that some people will always be opposed to anything it wants to do . . . Too bad, that's what Power is all about, you get to do things no matter what those not in power say. Not willy-nilly, but with goodwill and negotiation and nous, but in the end whatever the nay-sayers say. (That lets out Howard's way though, he did it with hatred and glee at making many unhappy.)

Feral Skeleton

15/11/2010And the Winner in the Wonkley category for 'Best Blog Post Hyperbole Re the NBN', is jj! for this effort: 'Oops, better put that NBN on hold. Seems as though what we are doing is not just a risk, but a terrible gamble/experiment that puts at risk not only our money but also the future engagement of newly developing technologies.' jj, please return for my next blog, which puts the 'putting at risk our money' into its correct context. :)

Ad astra reply

15/11/2010AC Father Ted is an accidental racist. Sadly Sarah Palin and the Tea Party are not accidents. They just look that way, as your satire demonstrates. adelaidegirl Thank you for your account of the Woodside incident. Racism comes so naturally to some. Min Mungo’s piece is, as usual, on the money. He puts into perspective one of the effects of racism, the unfair treatment of those from other countries, of other races, who arrive by boat. jj Instead of cherry-picking the bits of the OECD Report that suit your case, try reading all of the [i]OECD’s unedited comments on the MBN and telecommunications[/i] http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/367996/oecd_unedited_comments_nbn_telecommunications/

jj

15/11/2010Adelaide Girl, If you actually go back and have a look at what Tony Abbot said on the issues of climate change and women you might find that the spin Labor has put on them are quite good examples of stretching the truth to a point where it is really a falsehood. 1. Tony Abbott did not say that climate change was absolute crap, he said that the issue of the science being settled is absolute crap. As the minister for climate change said as short time ago as today, the science that underpins the issue of climate change is for ever being updated and changing. So yes Tony was right, and yes the government is lying. 2. As for the meddling in the affairs of women taunt by Gillard, once again this is very deceitful and misleading. Tony Abbott was asked a question about his daughters and their virginity, and all he said was that they should consider it a precious gift, enabling them to keep some of childhoods ever diminishing defining naivety. SO once again, Julia has taken a comment made about the women he holds most close to him, and he did not make a comment to women in general. Another Gillard example of tampering with the truth. 3. If he is an extremist, name one extreme policy which he has either proposed or introduced into the parliament? Dont stress if you cant find any, maybe you might realise that you slogan is based on nothing.

jj

15/11/2010TalkTurkey, I am sorry, i dont have the poetic talent that you obviously possess...but dont you ever think that you could put your talent to better use than repeating the same old anti Abbott, pro AA and Goolia stuff? Adelaide Girl, It is not very nice to come onto the internet and start attacking you boss for her political views. She probably doesnt like what you have to say, you obviously dont like what she has to say but you should at least comment in a space that allows for a response to your criticism. As for what Abbot said about judges, it is a very, very stupid thing to say and thank goodness he is not or was not a lawyer.

lyn

15/11/2010[quote]As for what Abbot said about judges, it is a very, very stupid thing to say and thank goodness he is not or was not a lawyer.[/quote] Let's list the stupid things, he, Rabbit has had to say, first I need to check the space available on the internet. National Broadband Network: [u]For anyone who is interested in the facts of the OECD's report:[/u] [b]OECD's each-way bet on NBN, Alan Kohler, ABC The OECD is having a bet each way - a box trifecta in fact. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/15/3066046.htm [/b] [i]OECD's each-way bet on Australia's broadband network, David Golstein, TelcoNews[/i][b]but its critique of the NBN is contradictory and superficial[/b]. http://www.telconews.com/2010/11/14/oecds-each-way-bet-on-australias-broadband-network OECD somewhat critical of NBN approach, Renai LeMay, Delimiter In the summary (PDF [b]the OECD noted that the NBN project held the promise of delivering “potentially large benefits”, including improving internet services for the entire population and promoting fairer competition between telcos with respect to retail telecommunications services. [/b]http://delimiter.com.au/2010/11/15/oecd-somewhat-critical-of-nbn-approach/ [i]OECD Releases 2010 Economic Survey of Australia, GOVMonitor[/i] The OECD’s views reinforce the Government’s determination to build on its successes, and create a stronger, [b]broader more competitive economy that benefits all Australians.[/b]http://www.thegovmonitor.com/economy/oecd-releases-2010-economic-survey-of-australia-42591.html [i]OECD Economic Survey , Roger Wegener[/i] [b]the problem that was created by the conservatives - and which now needs to be addressed by our national government. But you probably won't see that discussed in the main stream media[/b] http://roger-wegener.blogspot.com/2010/11/oecd-economic-survey.html

adelaidegirl

15/11/2010jj, she's not my boss. I do not name her or the organisation, or embarrass her in any way. Straw man. The "precious gift" issue cannot be trotted out every time. Who cares what he thinks? The problem arises when he denies women access to medication based on his religious views. Extremism - elected judges (which I acknowledge even you think is silly), workchoices, the "I'll turn the boats back myself" hotline, flat tax rate, give the rich heaps of dough for having babies, etc. The opinion that the facts on climate science are not settled is absolute crap. The detail may not be settled but the theory pretty much is. Although not according to the MSM, ABC and a bunch of other non-scientists, I guess. Talk Turkey - thanks. I too enjoy the strong female voice on this blog, ably and graciously facilitated! It's like a little utopia :)

2353

15/11/2010I've been voting in the Wonkleys too :) I also see JJ & SIC are back - there goes the neighbourhood :( Tony Abbott's whole mantra for getting elected demonstrated his lack of understanding. As The Chaser (and others demonstrated), Tony Abbott personally has a greater debt to income ratio than the Australian Government. Abbott as a part of a Cabinet of racists and hypocrites introduced legal gymnastics made to appear that boats did not get to Australian territory - something which the High Court thankfully threw out last week. The refugee boats came as they always do and for a country of immigrants to refuse refugees is hypocritical at best. Can't remember the other two "thought bubbles" sorry mantras - but it doesn't matter now thankfully! I see Pauline Hanson is back in the country to live - hopefully she joins (and then destroys) the Tea Party movement and the LNP moves back to being a "small L" liberal democratic party.

CALLIGULA

15/11/2010Dear JJ – Your –“As for what Abbot said about judges, it is a very, very stupid thing to say and thank goodness he is not or was not a lawyer.” Absolutely legwettingly amazing. I’m not entirely sure what Mr Abbott actually did say about judges - But if he suggested they be elected rather than appointed it’d have to be another of his ‘mistakes’ because it’d be the first time in his tight little life he ever supported an initiative that would significantly improve democracy via the separation of powers in Australia. Forgive me for beginning to suspect that none of you guys have ever had a civics lesson in your lives. For crying out loud people just have a break and google “separation of powers” precepts principles – or something like that and have a read. Or are you so completely gullible that you want to have the likes of whichever politician you don’t like keep on choosing whichever doddery old fart will work for them and their mates in the big combines at whichever cheapest rate might be agreed? Strike a light!!

Acerbic Conehead

15/11/2010Hi AA and FS, I'm glad you liked my Fr Ted skit. And thanks for the heads up on the Wonkleys. I'll get over there as soon as I can to cast a vote for AA and The Political Sword.

CALLIGULA

15/11/2010Dear 2353, There was once a time when a certain Navy stood off from refugee vessels and let them sink - if they sank. They also had verbal ‘advice’ to hurry proceedings along a bit if it was going too slow. The tail end of that might have been the unfortunate intervention of the ‘Tampa’. These days with comprehensive satellite surveillance that is probably too much of a risky approach. That and the fact that the lowliest naval rating might get on the internet and scream blue murder in real time. But what does that have to do with Pauline (whom beside God we trust) coming back to Australia? After all, if she has been away shouldn’t she have a break? Wouldn’t you want a break from the bullshine here? You suggested Mr Abbott was a bit of a spendthrift. Didn’t he reach into his own pockets to help finance having Pauline before the courts? Do some of us hate others so much we condone that sort of thing? Have we lost every sensibility? Or could we fall back to some old common sense? WS Churchill - “Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on. Nothing can be more abhorrent to democracy than to imprison a person or keep him in prison because he is unpopular. This is really the test of civilization.”

Feral Skeleton

15/11/2010jj, 1. As a woman, who wishes to control her own body and fertility and conception, I found it pretty damn offensive when Tony Abbott, as Health Minister, tried to ban RU486, a 'policy he tried to introduce into parliament', as a contraception choice for women, simply as a result of his "lame, gay,churchy loser" leanings. It's my body, and I like to control it myself. 2. You appear to believe that a contradictory word from you and we will all see the error of our ways, well, I'm sorry, but Mr Abbott did actually admit to being a Climate Change Sceptic, proudly, and that the science around it was 'absolute crap'. Here is the documentary proof: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/the-town-that-turned-up-the-temperature/story-e6frgczf-1225809567009 3. I'd prefer it if my husband had absolutely nothing to say about my daughters and their giving away 'the greatest gift of all'(!?!), their virginity. It's just too creepy for words. If I had daughters, that is. So, I can only speak for myself. To paraphrase Tony Abbott's political mentor, John Howard, let me put it this way: "I'll decide who comes into my body, and the manner and timing of when they come."

Feral Skeleton

15/11/2010jj, Wrong again. You'll have to stop being an apologist for Tony Abbott and making it up on the fly. I happen to have gone to the same University as Tony Abbott, at the same time. I know for a fact that he IS a lawyer. This is from his Wikipedia profile: 'He graduated with a Bachelor of Economics (BEc) and a Bachelor of Laws (LLB) from the University of Sydney where he resided at St John's College, and was president of the Student Representative Council.' So, it is safe to say that he would indeed know all about the Separation of Powers Doctrine enshrined in our Constitution, and thus he was being mischievous and reckless with his call last week for an elected, American-style judiciary. I might also add that he has recklessly endorsed Jason Wood's call to overturn John Howard's Gun Laws. The man is a loose cannon, and does not express, by word or deed, the gravitas or judgement necessary to be Prime Minister of our great country.

CALLIGULA

15/11/2010FS – A wise old Texan sheriff was sitting beside a lady colleague at a law enforcement conference a few years ago. The lady believed she’d just given a good speech pro-choice/female rights. She turned to our sheriff and declared that she expected that in a few years her daughter would be able to have an abortion if she chose, any time she chose. He gave that some consideration and after a while said – “Why yes Ma’am; I expect the way this country is going in a few more years your daughter will have the right to abort her child – and the right to have you put to sleep too, once you have become an inconvenience for her.” FS – You can see my comment here about the Queensland thing – http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2010/10/15/queensland-abortion-couple-not-guilt/ I’d like to believe you wouldn’t have a problem with it nor with Lady SkepticLawyer’s agreement with my comment further down the thread. But I’ve lived a life too and if one thing has impressed me it is the abject, willful stupidity of femininity of all ages, all my life. About the only thing that excuses that is that blokes, in their own way, are generally sillier. In my opinion most of you are caught in that ‘Corrosive Littoral Zone of Habit’. You all seem to want another law passed at a time when too many laws have already been passed. Our ever narrowing comfort zone is being encroached upon from both sides - both in reality and in the abstract sense. On one side is the increasingly hostile earth and on the other the utterly impersonal ocean. On one side is ambition fighting decreasing opportunity – and on the other is exploitation masked as governance.

CALLIGULA

15/11/2010FS – you said - “ I might also add that he has recklessly endorsed Jason Wood's call to overturn John Howard's Gun Laws” I say – Cripes, has he? That’s it then. He’s got a convert. To put that into realspeak – Give us a break FS. He just wants the redneck vote. Do you honestly believe he’d keep such a pledge? I’m beginning to suspect that you are trying to burr me up. A few comments back you called me all sorts of things and now you are up Tony just because he enjoyed banging away with the Army when he was in ‘Ghanistan. In a funny way you are right. Those who have convinced themselves that they are Alpha Males do go a bit funny when playing with weapons. You could almost say it becomes a RELEASE for them. Just never let on that I told you. I was at the pet shop yesterday with my Lady Wife. She refused to buy it. IT was an Oxolotl Salamander. Better looking, five times the recall and infinitely more honest, I said. A bargain. She asked – “Than whom?” I lifted both hands, fingers spread; then started reciting the list. She still didn’t want that salamander. Probably a bit deep, that, but I’ll leave it stand.

CALLIGULA

15/11/2010FS - “the gravitas or judgement necessary to be Prime Minister of our great country.” Excuse me. Then what was that dropkick doing in the job all those years before Mr. Rudd? Someone had a go at me last night for something Churchill said a lifetime ago. I repeat it for him now – “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.” Now that comes from a bloke who should know. It can be variously interpreted, especially with a sense of humour. It unfortunately pretty much indicates exactly why Mr Abbott is in with a chance.

Feral Skeleton

15/11/2010My, my Calligula, you are showing, more and more, every day, a level of intolerance and narrow-mindedness, that is surprising me. Why you would advocate the views of a Texan Law Enforcement Officer, wrt such a sensitive issue, is beyond my understanding. Let alone employing the conservative's sleight of hand when it comes to the false equivalency between Abortion and Euthanasia. As if the right to one could be traded away due to the fear of the other. How pathetic is that as a form of tactical debate? Pretty pathetic, that's how much. For your tiny-minded information, before you regurgitate another conservative, viral e-mail, anti-Abortion, anti-Euthanasia talking point, my Mother-In-Law, besides being the first person in Australia to devise a 'Do-It-Yourself Divorce Kit', was also a close friend of Dr Bertram Wainer, the tireless advocate for a Woman's Right To Choose. She attended many 'Backyard Abortions' as well over the years, in order to comfort scared women; and she drove desperate women around to get abortions after horrendous treatment, such as Pack Rape, or pregnancy at the hands of a domineering husband who would not allow even the most basic of contraception for his subjugated wife, and who used pregnancy as a yoke to keep his 'woman' tethered to the home, without prospects for an independant life or career. She also told me stories about women who used any implement they could get their hands on in order to try and effect their own abortions, and of the septicaemia they contracted as a result. Septicaemia which caused them to be sterile for the rest of their lives, or sometimes to die from that septicaemia, or massive blood loss. I've also seen the blighted lives that children suffer through, if their mothers have been unable to access a termination, unloved and unwanted. All so that men like you, and your Chauvinistic, God-Fearing no doubt, Texan Sherriff shyster mate, can take back control over women and their bodies. As it seems to me that you and your ilk feel threatened by powerful women in control of their own lives and their own bodies. And you are using religion as a guise, to get back what you believe is yours to control. Women. Oh, and use ghastly pictures of aborted foetuses, magnified horribly, brandished by the brainwashed outside of Abortion Clinics. Termination of an unwanted pregnancy could never be as despicable as that. Yes, happy, healthy, bouncing babies are beautiful. And when they are wanted they go on to lead glorious, fulfilled lives. Unwanted babies don't. Frankly, they are better off not having been born at all. And before you come back with the line that all unwanted babies should just be adopted out, especially to clean-living, God-fearing, atomic families. Well, frankly, I couldn't think of anything worse than not having a choice in life about whether you became a brain-washed religious zombie or not. As they are generally the ones in America that get their hands on the children up for adoption there. Ugh. As for Euthanasia. How ridiculous your Tall Tale is. No country that already has Euthanasia has allowed children to make a decision to knock off their parents. In Australia the proposal initially made in the Territories expressly called for the decision to be made by the person themselves, if and only if, they are of sound mind, and their decision is supported by the professional opinion of more than one doctor. Calligula, you're sounding as mad as your namesake, more and more, every day.

Feral Skeleton

15/11/2010Oh yeah, and this line is just plain obnoxious: 'But I’ve lived a life too and if one thing has impressed me it is the abject, willful stupidity of femininity of all ages, all my life.' With an attitude like that, I consider you capable of adding nothing of worth to our debates, and you should be ashamed of yourself for expressing such debasing sentiments.

CALLIGULA

16/11/2010FS – I really would suggest you have a cup of tea and a Bex  then get back to my last few and parse them. You seem to have it all entirely wrong once again. But then again, perhaps that is your agenda bubbling out between your lines? I’m still a commie – a socialist - but after I got up from chewing the carpet with laughter – I’m still hanged if I can work you out. Bless you though and I do insist it’s this awful sterile medium of e-mail that causes so much misunderstanding in communication. Someone once told me that I’d make a damned good intelligence officer because I had the gift of finding a person’s ‘strings’ then plucking them until they played their ‘tune’. That’s as may be but it seems to have worked in your case. As for ‘Calligula’ – a pen name chosen out of the blue after I saw the ‘interesting’ behaviour towards a friend of mine who chose to call himself ‘Django Reinhardt’ in honour of a very famous, much loved jazz musician. Seems neither of us can choose well. Dear JJ, Don’t think for a second that I’m some liberale ring-in setting the cat amongst the pigeons to give you a break from fulmination (oh God. Now I’m beginning to write like an AUSStan™ blogger) In fact I’d been waiting for you to reappear so’s I could get stuck into you. But instead I get minced by one of my own team. Now I know how Vlad the Impaler felt defending his Wallachian homeland against the dreaded Turks when the Transylvanians came over and stabbed him in the back. At least the Saxons in Transylvania probably had an excuse – whereas I suspect some of these people up above plain can’t read.

jj

16/11/2010Calligula, I dont need a civics lesson to figure out that holding elections for judges is a bad idea. Tony Abbott said, and he is right in this respect, that judges would be elected on how tough they are in their sentencing. now i am sue you dont really think this is a good thing? Feral Skeleton, I am pretty sure that the debate about the abortion drug was made a conscience vote, and in the end was voted down. Abbott has never practiced as a lawyer, and that is what i was saying, thank goodness he hasnt! I think it is up to Tony and his family to decide what should or shouldnt be said about his children... so Julia's lie still remains. Tony Abbott did not say what the local newspaper said that he said on the issue of climate change, he was paraphrased, and all of the attendants at that meeting say that he was talking about the issue of climate science not climate change in general. Just as a general point, according to the SMH and the OZ it looks like the Coalition is going to get the backing of the independents to send the NBN to the Productivity Commission; hooray for common sense!

Feral Skeleton

16/11/2010Calligula, You're right there, it's impossible for me sometimes to work out the circomlocutions of your logic, and it may well be the case that your are poor at conveying the true intent of your thoughts here. Especially if, as you say, you are on 'our' side. As you are prone to chewing the carpet, maybe a ROFLMAO, here or there, after a statement meant to be viewed with tongue in cheek might help other's understanding of your sense.

lyn

16/11/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]Implications of the Liberals putting the Greens last in the Lower House, Antony Green[/i] the Liberal Party has taken an official position that it would rather see a Labor member elected ahead of the Greens in inner city seats. http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/ [i]Victorian Election Guidance, William Bowe, The Poll Bludger[/i] The Poll Bludger’s Victorian election guide is now open for business, sort of – profiles are available for all Labor-held seats, http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/ [i]Real Power must be taken, Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless[/i] [b]Tony Abbott isn't in control of his own tongue[/b], let alone the party machine,and nobody wants to go near the guy let alone make him Prime Minister. http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/2010/11/real-power-must-be-taken-fancy.html [i]On the Qt: This Question Time needs an anonymous troll, Greg Jericho, Grog's Gamut[/i] The interesting aspect of the opposition’s questions was the utter lack of acknowledgment of the OECD Economic Report on Australia released yesterday. The Report contained this about the NBN: http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/ [i]The Rocky Road To Stop The Boats, Ashghebranious,Ash's Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] It makes me feel dirty that there is a shadow Immigration minister and Opposition leader in this country that preach hate when they know the true facts http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com:80/2010/11/15/the-rocky-road-to-stop-the-boat/ [i]In defence of my 'miserable little pamphlet', Paul Howes, Unleashed[/i] It’s probably the best publicity a newly published author can get, especially when Piers Akerman says it. http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41072.html [i]Blame the Users, Neil Cook, The Bannerman[/i] In a many ways, Paul Howes piece - or whinge - is accurate. Editors either don't expect reader contribution to their utterances, or don't tolerate them. http://www.waddayano.org/blog/2010/11/blame_the_users.php#more [i]Another Paul Howes post, John Quiggin[/i] My last post responding to Paul Howes led me to this piece by him in the Daily Telegraph, denouncing anonymous Internet commenters for their unfair attacks on politicians, See also: Andrew Elder on Howes and a similar whine from Leigh Sales. http://johnquiggin.com/ [i]Political Vacuum, John, True Politik[/i] Tony Abbott has been spruiking his "stop the boats" slogan in Parliament. He does this knowing that he doesn't have to. Indeed, he doesn't even have to have a policy - just a slogan http://truepolitik.blogspot.com/ [i]One of these things is not like the other., Dave Gaukroger, Pure Poison[/i] let’s take another look at it it for the benefit of Andrew and anyone else who is placing their faith in the magic wireless that’s going to avoid the laws of physics. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2010/11/15/one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other/ [i]QandA, Roger Wegener[/i] ABC makes extra special effort to accommodate many of the right wing dingbats from the Murdoch press every other week? http://roger-wegener.blogspot.com/ [i]Four easy pieces. What the OECD actually Said, Peter Martin[/i] Crisis well handled . Mining tax too low . MRRT shouldn't be merely spent . GST too low, should include food . NBN anticompetitive, imprudent . Unemployment benefit too low . Emissions Trading needed soon http://www.petermartin.com.au/ [i]OECD Economic Survey of Australia 2010,Gary Sauer-Thompson,Public Opinion[/i] this overview which, surprisingly says little about the national broadband network (NBN).[b]The Australian interpreted it as a critique of the NBN[/b] ---as a rejection of Labor's broadband monopoly. http://www.sauer-thompson.com/ [i]Banks profit, Chris White[/i] This year, the big four banks earned pre-tax profit of around $1,300 per annum for every man, woman and child in Australia. http://chriswhiteonline.org:80/2010/11/banks-profit/ [i]CommBank uses ad to attack ‘false’ story as News Ltd apologises to CEO Ralph Norris, Mumbrella[/i] News Ltd papers of falsely creating the impression that CEO Ralph Norris did not care about the pressures faced by mortgage holders http://mumbrella.com.au/ralph-norris-commbank-news-ltd-telegraph-apology-36055

Feral Skeleton

16/11/2010jj, For a sensible debate about the Alliance for Affordable Broadband proposal, which is at the basis of the contention in the smh article and the urgers in the Senate, like Nick Xenophon, and in the Opposition, like Malcolm Turnbull, to have an ABNBN(AnythingButNBN) system put in place, go here: http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/359080/nbn_3_0_our_reply_alliance_affordable_broadband/

Ad astra reply

16/11/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

Gravel

16/11/2010HS May I say thank you on for your comments at 11:19pm last night. My reaction on reading that posters contribution is the same reaction I have when Abbott belittles and talks about women they way he does.

Feral Skeleton

16/11/2010Gravel, Thank you for your support. That poster always comes back at you when you have reacted to one of his posts saying, 'How come you couldn't tell I was joking?' Didn't come across that way to me, I'm afraid. More like 'Snark Trolling'(which term I have just made up, but basically equates to, lobs in a verbal grenade, and then when called on it disingenuously proclaims, 'Who, moi?).

TalkTurkey

16/11/2010"November 15. 2010 04:58 PM TalkTurkey, I am sorry, i dont have the poetic talent that you obviously possess...but dont you ever think that you could put your talent to better use than repeating the same old anti Abbott, pro AA and Goolia stuff? " jj Thank you for what I will accept as a genuine tribute for my doggerel, but No, I don't think there could be better use for it than batting for Lefties and bowling against the Rotten Right. If by my lines I can help even in a tiny way to abort Abbortt and his mob of poochuckers, then I will award myself a new pair of Liar-Bird tail feathers and shake them in glee. But I don't repeat anything, and I do indeed write a great deal of other stuff that is quite other stuff, how would you know what else I write? Most of my verse is about positive stuff - education in ecology, art, 3-D geometry, plus just poetry, fun, (Didnya read my Paul the Psychic Octopus, or didja? That was one night's writing, I spend LOTS of time writing, can you imagine?) You know what? EVERY Swordsperson, yourself and Sicko included, also have likewise, FAR BETTER THINGS TO DO than writing bitter nasty sad angry stuff like this on Blogs! We could be out in the field, recreating as we re-create the watercourses, the eco-niches for EVERYTHING, STARTING at the submicroscopic - (like, don't try to save the Platypus if you haven't saved the tiny things that the tiny things the Platypus feeds on feeds on! Parents with Teachers with Kids could be into managed projects, serviced by the WILLING RICH supplying all kinds of paraphernalia, and by the WILLING AUTHORITIES helping with everything, and equipped with all mod cons, could be achieving amazing revolutions in learning of all kinds, science in building and analysing and creating in practice, using all the imagination and infrastructure of a rich nation to restore the countryside to health and cleverness where now is degradation and ignorance. That's the sort of thing I'd prefer to be doing, and what I would like to be able to direct my facility with rhyme and the written word. It's only stupid, hateful, one-upsmanship-loving, nay-saying *s like those in the Rotten Right that use their evilly-begotten huge wealth and power to play the ordinary people for utter fools, to keep them pig-ignorant like you jj for their own pleasure and exclusivity, and then there are so many like you who are so sucked in that NOTHING GOOD FOR EVERYONE IS EVER POSSIBLE ! But jj, you are special. At least you ENGAGE! So I tell you, no lie, WE LOVE YOU! We want you back! Not just back on the site, we want you back as a thinking loving loveable Human Being! Logical! Fair! Sensible! Pleasant! Fun! (Dog help me, I sound like an evangelist, well yes for irreligion. Gimme a irreligionist every time for humanitarian behaviour and thinking.) Are you religious jj, is that what done it? Religion really seems almost a necessary ingredient to curdle people. Why, oh why, poor dear jj, how did they get you, or are you really from your own very core hateful and contrary for the very sake of making others feel bad? What is it with people like you? How did you get so warped, so rancid? Is there nothing we can do?) I'd count all this worthwhile to think that I had some small part in your Damascoforme epiphanic conversion, so I've writ you a little love pome: TPS'ers have PHALANGED you, Insulted you, needled you, Disabused you and challenged you, Entreated you, wheedled you, We've accused and abused you Of lying, and WORSE - But we'll never REFUSE you - BREAK FREE FROM YOUR CURSE! Strangely, you know, I'm really pretty sure I speak for everyone on TPS, can't be really sure, maybe poor old Sicko would be pretty miffed to think you'd deserted the dark horrible space only you and he seem locked in, (CALLIGULA might wander in and out a bit I wonder, but that can have its points, you get to see things in various lights.) But we really are people of goodwill, that's what the sensible Left is philosophically all about. Us don't want to marginalise or exclude anybody. "There is more joy in Heaven", you know the quote? Well Heaven in this case would be the scenario I'm projecting, Dads and Mums and Profs and industry and govmint, intelligence and goodwill and organisation and altruism, all acting in concerted schemes to educate, fitten and employ EVERYBODY. Why not? Just because of bloody nay-sayers on the Rotten Right. Deliberately spiking the guns of all Socialist programmes. THEY will say anything, make up any BS line, and repeat it like Harvey Norman ads until there seems no room for sense in ENOUGH people to make them compliant zombies who believe everything that Anal Jones tells them and prevent ANYTHING happening just for the very good reason that it would be a very good thing. Enough to sway elections. That's all it takes. Dumb people who have a false sense of superiority, egged on by rich self-interested self-congratulatory self-satisfied selfish people of whom Rupert Murdoch is monarch. And of whom silly little Tony Abbort is a dupe too, just a judas-goat. (Howard wasn't, he was a snarling American Bull Terrier, and inside the families of rich and powerful in that capacity. Take your pick of those two for morality.) THEY insist that EVERY project HAS to be for the MONEY, and the MONEY has to go to THEM. But it is their DUPES, the ordinary people as I assume you to be, Dear jj, who make Heaven impossible for ALL of us. Gee that's tough on the world. C'mon Girl. Take a fresh look. We want you back in a decent Australia.

Ad astra reply

16/11/2010CALLIGULA You seem to have a penchant for making remarks that evoke outrage. Why? Your assessment: “[i] But I’ve lived a life too and if one thing has impressed me it is the abject, willful stupidity of femininity of all ages, all my life. 
About the only thing that excuses that is that blokes, in their own way, are generally sillier.[/i]”, quite apart from demeaning both sexes, is redolent with unbecoming arrogance. CALLIGULA, having ‘lived a life’, is thereby steeped in wisdom, certainty and intelligence. We, by contrast, having also ‘lived a life’ are poor, ignorant, ‘silly’ fools, none of whom can escape your categorical indictment – we are either females or males. It must give bloggers here much pleasure that FS has your measure. May I suggest you give us a break from your particular style of philosophy, and instead focus on the theme of the piece, to which we are attempting to contribute in a meaningful way, and I mean ‘meaningful’.

Feral Skeleton

16/11/2010Well said, that Turkey! :) Now, considering what I have just read about your extra-blog-curricular activities, then you would be most pleased with my abode and its surrounds. I live on an acreage on the Central Coast of NSW, which has remnant native Sub-Tropical Forest on it! I also have a pond out back amongst it all, and presently in the massive Angophora to the back and right, I have a Kookaburra nesting site in a hollowed-out knot in the tree. I can hear the frogs at night, as well as the Tawny Frogmouths, and the Brush Turkeys, who have built their mound at back and to the left. Not to mention the Echidna who has sauntered out of the bush occasionally. Then there's the Lace Monitor out back near the pond, who feeds on the frogs and suns themselves on the fallen tree among the undergrowth. I am also lucky enough to have a full compliment of Blue Wrens, Cat Birds, Bower Birds, Magpies, Cockatoos, Sea Eagles, and good ol' Crows. Haven't seen a Platypus yet, though. :) ps. I forgot the Cicadas, who are just starting to make their presence known again.

patriciawa

16/11/2010Feral Skeleton - re NBN I may have missed it here and this info has already come via TPS but I was at Larvatus Prodeo just now where there was a lead to Microsoft's chief researcher, Dr. Gordon Bell, interviewed by Virginia Trioli, saying opposition to publicly owned NBN is about nothing more than Foxtel’s vested interests. http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/11/16/3067562.htm He was full of praise for the Australian government's initiative and ridiculed the idea that the network should be owned and developed by private enterprise and not by government. If that's the case he said why not have roads, sewers and power services all run by business. Let's hope he gets the coverage he deserves.

lyn

16/11/2010Hi Ad This is the ABC's video clip of the interview this morning with Dr Gordon Bell, in response to Patriciawa's welcome alert on the NBN, thankyou Patricia. I guess we will not see this on the TV news tonight, or the online newspapers. Highly recommended viewing, short video: [i]Dr. Gordon Bell, Microsoft researcher backs NBN,[/i] Microsoft's Gordon Bell says the NBN is [b]essential infrastructure[/b] that needs to be built and businesses need to exploit it. Video ABC2 http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/11/16/3067562.htm

lyn

16/11/2010Hi Patricia Sorry I meant to tell you, that I only posted your link again, so that Ad Astra when he comes along will post it on the special link page. Cheers

Feral Skeleton

16/11/2010PatriciaWA, Thanks for the headsup re Dr Bell. Wonder if he's related to Alexander Graham Bell? :)

Jason

16/11/2010Hello Folks, Just back from a stint in Indonesia for a shutdown, where the grubby Murdoch empire hardly exists, could do with even jj's model of broadband, but no doubt in ten years what jj proposes will be seen as state of the art over there. As to the subject de jour whilst we have the "Westminster system" should anything else be expected? our current system allows for the only thing that matters the sound bite on the nightly news, and thats it! no we would do......., just blame and more focus group thinking! memo to all MP's Stand up for something give people a reason to believe rather than pander to the art of the "Dog whistle"!

CALLIGULA

16/11/2010“How lies deception slogans and mantras kill the truth” “You seem to have a penchant for making remarks that evoke outrage. Why?” “Your assessment: “ But I’ve lived a life too and if one thing has impressed me it is the abject, willful stupidity of femininity of all ages, all my life. 
About the only thing that excuses that is that blokes, in their own way, are generally sillier.”,” As I understand, AA has recently driven along the Qld coast. If he’d stayed long enough in my hometown he would undoubtedly have seen what myself and family call ‘street theatre’ – others call ‘the antics of the blow-ins’. What our courts call ‘another senseless outbreak of street violence’ – the outcome of what premier Beattie called “massive demographics change caused by southern migration”. It is accepted ‘truth’ in this community that the young ladies often exhibit worse behaviour than the young men. I have seen enough of remarks evoking outrage myself well before I chose to become a bit outrageous myself. I’m told I should make it easier for people to read the irony by placarding it with little smileys. If you take a look at my poor effort above you’ll see a little square. That was a little smiley in my orig, text which didn’t quite translate in the publishing. The Texan Sheriff FS found objectionable – happened to be the protagonist in a Pulitzer Prize winning novel “No Country For Old Men”, Cormac McCarthy. - http://www.cormacmccarthy.com/Biography.htm It was actually my Lady Wife who brought to my attention the incident I’d paraphrased. As well as being widely read my wife happens to consider herself confident enough to consider and accept the world view of others even if they are an academic from Rhode Island. But I suppose, in your opinion, she’s as much a sicko as myself and Cormac. I begin to realise what is wanted here is a narrow version of belief. Truth ‘aint in it when some cop a trainload of abuse followed by – “give us a break from your particular style of philosophy, and instead focus on the theme of the piece, to which we are attempting to contribute in a meaningful way, and I mean ‘meaningful’.” Which by my lights lends certain ‘correspondents’ a free hand to deviate where they wish (Though I may accept that FS’s backyard possesses the attributes she outlines it likewise leaves me having to accept her mind possesses the attributes she exploits while attacking Calligula.) while leaving stranded those with different interpretations of the truth. So my dear AA I can only point out that I have stayed true to the thread – “How lies deception slogans and mantras kill the truth” while a load of obfuscation from elsewhere is killing it. Best I leave you with some more Churchill - http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-best-comebacks.php

patriciawa

16/11/2010FS, Re Bell: There's apparently no connection! He says it's been Googled extensively! Changing the subject to your valiant rebuttal of Calligula. Well done. As well, thank you to Ad Astra for your firm and courteous reproof to him this morning. I started in on a follow-up to support FS late last night, but decided that getting the adrenaline going at that hour would mean lost sleep and that C wasn't worth that. In amongst some of his [quote]horse[/quote] sense (more later) C makes the most outrageous comments which I usually resist rising to because I know I'm going to start by nit picking about his name. I've often wondered how and why he chose it and if he knows that it's a mis-spelling of 'Caligula' - who as a toddler and adopted son of the Emperor Tiberius was given the nickname of 'little boots.' His real father Germanicus was a great general and baby Caligula was often amongst the soldiers dressed in full uniform with tunic, shield and tiny army boots - hence the nickname, Caligula. When he became Emperor Gaius Caligula wasn't half bad at the job but he had a long standing quarrel with the Senate and showed his contempt for them by making his favorite horse a senator. His sense of humor got all sorts of stories running around so that his enemies painted him as mad. So you're right, C does very much resemble his would-be namesake's reputation for madness, simply because of his unpredictability and quirky sense of humor which he takes too far. Some historians think Caligula was not mad at all but just enjoyed pretending to be. Sound familiar?.

Ad astra reply

16/11/2010CALLIGULA I see you’re stung. But if that’s what needed to evoke your list of ‘Top 10 Best Comebacks’ that’s a good dividend.

TalkTurkey

16/11/2010"PatriciaWA, Thanks for the headsup re Dr Bell. Wonder if he's related to Alexander Graham Bell? Feral Skeleton" Doubt it FS. AGB attempted to have the Wright Brothers secrets stolen, I forget the whole story, but the upshot was that the bloke whom AGB set up to invade their workshop and steal the plans ended up building a half-arsed and flawed version of their craft and challenging them to a flying duel, the thief ended up in the Potomac River and the Wright Brothers finally got noticed for actually being able to fly. So this Dr Gordon Bell, who in no minced terms paid out Trioli for trying to get him to say that the NBN was too expensive, and then ridiculed her for trying to get him to say that it should have been left to private enterprise -(well pretty much she begged those responses)- anyway I think that those sharing Alexander Graham Bell's DNA would be unlikely to be so wedded to truthfulness as Dr.G. Oh that's silly. It's not in the genes is it? Is it? Thank you FS for projecting a word-picture of your Platypus-free environment to Us. (You may keep Platypus at bay by concreting the watercourses and eradicating all vegetation within 5 km., BTW.) I once played a small part in the capturing of 2 male Platypus on Kangaroo Island and bringing them back to Dr John Wamsley's Warrawong Sanctuary (q.v!) in the Adelaide Hills, where because of the feisty old Doctor's correct analysis of their needs, and with having created the environment that would provide them, the Platypus have bred and continue to thrive. Shows it can be done. Platypus are so-o-o-o special, the more you learn the wondrouser they seem. Until Platypus was invented, there was no comparative nor superlative form of the adjective 'unique'! Aa, I haven't yet got my Gravatar up, but I'd gladly make available to all who'd like to look my own quirky but not-unpleasant website, with some nice designs and stuff . . . Not for any purpose beyond giving pleasure . . . but I don't know at all about the mechanisms nor the protocols of that. I amn't shy about my identity really but I am diffident about thrusting myself forward, as it were. FS having taken an interest in what I said about my writings and such above, I'd be glad to offer her or anyone of goodwill my web address. Please explain? (Oh yes, and speaking of that, I see that Pretty Polly Pantsdown is BA-A-A-ACK now too!)

CALLIGULA

16/11/2010Dear AA – Re your last. Firstly, I’m pleased you enjoyed 10 best comebacks. If you reckon I’ve been stung all I can say is you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. All you have to do is find some way of getting that silly skeleton to click on to that url. If you can somehow induce her and her mates to do that and read down far enough then we can both sit back and watch the cack really hit the fan. Believe me, I’m speaking the truth. As mentioned my last – I have no luck making those smileys work. Will “HA Ha” do instead? Yr Obdt Servant - Gaius

lyn

16/11/2010Hi Jason [quote]Just back from a stint in Indonesia for a shutdown, where the grubby Murdoch empire hardly exists. [/quote] Welcome back home Jason, glad you got back safe and sound, I thought you must be doing shutdown somewhere, you are a good worker Jason, must be hard going away from home, although I suppose it's not for long at a time. So I take it, Indonesia's IP service is not much chop. Cheers

CALLIGULA

16/11/2010But since everyone else can deviate and you mentioned ‘stung’ I remember many years ago being close to running out of fuel on my scooter. I’d switched to reserve tank too far down the road to make it to the next fuel stop. To compensate for that I opened the throttle and blipped her up to about 180 KPH at about the same time the garage came into view. That’s when the bellowing stopped and I could haul in the clutch and begin coasting. I could see all these grinning idiots waving their arms about on the garage concourse but as I coasted closer their shoulders slumped and their grins turned down in the mouth to their usual expressions. I made it to the fuel pump with about 30 KPH spare so had the chance to scatter them a bit with a good broadside to a stop. “So what wiped the smiles off your faces you d---heads” I asked. “The bees”, replied Rossie. “What bees?” I asked. “The swarm that was up there in the middle of the road until you hit ‘em” “Well,” says I – “I scattered the bloody bees and I scattered you floggers too.” The moral of the story might escape the reader. No doubt I’ve revealed some other tiny aspect of myself that’ll outrage the humourless. As it happens I like bees and generally bees like me. I’m damned sure I missed the bees but oh so very much enjoyed scattering the good ol’ boys. Totally off thread I know – just like the recent unsolicited tour of someone’s back yard.

Jason

16/11/2010Lyn, Thanks for that, I'm glad to be back! the telephony system where I was! Abbott and his front bench would be in heaven! it's the old "keep them stupid concept" but now I know where future Lib/Nat people get trained lol! but yes no more trips until February next year! Jason

Feral Skeleton

16/11/2010Calligula, By alluding to an alternative reality in a post without reference to the novel from which it came is specious. Then to say, "But my wife understands me", is just plain silly. Of course she does, she lives with you and is used to your ways, and, anyway, can see your face when you speak. Something which the rest of us are not privy to. Then to add that the thing we were unable to see was a smiley face, hence that excuses the rest of the diatribe, was just plain bizarre. Suffice to say, I don't think you can really blame us at the end of the day for reacting the way we did.

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16/11/2010Lyn What a great video of Virginia Trioli's interview with Dr Gordon Bell. Apart from his strong advocacy for the NBN, wasn't it nice to see someone put Virginia in her place. I've added the link to LYN'S DAILY LINKS: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

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16/11/2010CALLIGULA The skeleton is not 'silly' as you assert - she's a highly valued contributor to [i]TPS[/i]. You wouldn't want us to regard you as silly for making such an ill-considered remark, would you?

CALLIGULA

16/11/2010My Lady Wife used to have a bit of a hate on Benny Hill and his ‘innuendo’. In ‘truth’ she simply couldn’t handle the little object. This afternoon I resorted to the internet in order to find some lordly comeback at what I perceived as a worst case example of female stupidity – incoming barrage fire from well stacked if not well organized opponents. In order to discover what might be ‘out there’ by way of further comebacks after finding the item I sent along to AA – I searched the net seeking out results using search terms such as - ‘female, women, comebacks, witty,’- etc. Sorry. Not much result that could be added to a family blog like this one. If Benny Hill was a sorry case Innuendo wise – the dames these days have excelled themselves in that same style. Nary a comeback that wasn’t genital focused and nothing much funny either. I suppose by even mentioning that I’m the pot calling the kettle black. But who cares anyway. Perhaps JJ could make use of his admirable tongue in order to advance the masculine cause? I sit here with crossed fingers and crossed legs waiting for the furore to erupt.

lyn

16/11/2010Hi Ad Thanks Ad, yes I watched the interview this morning and thoroughly enjoyed every word, but had forgotten about it, until Patrica's welcome alert. I noted the video clip on the 7.30 report tonight during Heather's segment, Julia Gillard answering a question, the camera showed, Abbott making extremely rude gestures with his hands, pointing to Julia and laughing to his front bench, Incredibly juvenile but true to form. The video of Abbott addressing the Liberal Launch in Victoria, was shown on abc 24 around 12.30pm today, which was nothing short of sickening. Its all about a government who lost it's way in June, and has still lost it's way, same in Question time today, every question there was reference to a "Government that has lost it's way". This will be the new short slogan. Hope you had a nice day Ad. Cheers

Graeme

16/11/2010PatriciaWA, Thanks for the link to the Gordon Bell interview. Funny how the MSM were all over the comments from the Mexican dud(e) who reckoned the NBN was a waste of money. I wonder if Bell's comments will get the same exposure?

CALLIGULA

16/11/2010All I can say is that I’ve taken the heat off JJ and that Crisp fella for a mo’. This is all becoming a bit like ABC talkback radio. The same old set every night and newcomers getting the Bum’s rush. Get past it people and accept that some of us fight for a mutual, original, cause but from different waypoints and with a different perspective of the battlefield. You’ve lately all been up me like a rat up a rope to the extent that you’ve forgotten whom you were picking at last week. That IS the truth as I see it by the record revealed above. BTW - your 'Captcha' is repeating itself.

TalkTurkey

16/11/2010Calligula Just for fun How's about you pit your Horse against my Bull? Heliogabalus

CALLIGULA

16/11/2010Dear Graeme – The Mexican dude was just so convincing. We need more like him investing in Oz. That hateful new broadband would indeed be scotched and soon policemen would definitely be too busy to bother ordinary people with boring stuff like traffic tickets. (I rely upon the Mexican record) I say bring ‘em (his sort) here. It’d be a plus, plus, especially in Qld. where our Gov desperately needs to borrow a few spare credits from such influential men. I’ll probably cop flak for saying that from some of the others but I’m sure you’ll understand what I mean.

lyn

16/11/2010Hi Caligulla I know you will think I am beneath you, and have no brains, even if I was dux of my high school, so therefore I haven't participated in your conversation. Hillbilly/Feral has been doing a wonderful job looking after us But look honestly, Stupid or not, I haven't got one single clue what you are talking about, it's all double dutch, psychic stuff, off beat, way to deep and scary, mad, really. What's that stuff about bees supposed to mean, Oh! no don't tell me please, I couldn't stand it. You can do better than silly talk surely.

CALLIGULA

16/11/2010TT – Your – “Just for fun How's about you pit your Horse against my Bull?” Sorry mate. I’m a Queensland lad. We still accept soap-on-a-rope for Xmas up here. For obvious reasons. But since you mention the little sucker, wozzisname, I can well remember the little paperbacks by (was it) Lance Horner, et al. Little potboilers, weren’t they? I shouldn’t be saying any of this because it ain’t ‘Truth. But if you want something to read – try Terry Pratchett’s – “The Truth” – which would you believe, I’m up to page 126 today. More truth in that book than anything else I’ve read, incoming, these last few days. But you get that. Mark Twain once said something like this. “Truth is stranger than fiction – Hey, but fiction has to make sense”. BTW, TT. For over 40 years I’ve known what a ‘fibula’ is. Doesn’t mean I have one fitted. Or do I mistake the intent of yet another discreet little foray outside the realms of this thread. AA – Please get these people leashed in !

CALLIGULA

16/11/2010Gee Lyn I had believed a person such as yourself taking in all that diversity of comment from so many angles could read my simple story about a long ago ride on a motorcycle in a more reckless age. Haven’t you ever been for a ride on a motorcycle or flown a plane through the moonlit clouds? Okay. If not then you haven’t lived. I have never accused anyone of being stupid as in the sense of their being ‘non compus mentis’ - especially you with all that work collating the stuff displayed daily on the page. I reckon you are doing a grand job of showing people where to go and how to think. I can accept it might be a bit of a chore for you keeping track of what is published especially when an old geezer like me writes in. My language is probably a bit archaic, given my age. Ha. Somehow people keep pretending they understand Shakespeare despite the fact they can’t read a dole form. I do not have the exact term to describe the ability for a person’s ability to assimilate concepts but as I tried to point out before – it is something I have to do in order to read literature of any quality I find acceptable. I enjoy that challenge and am somewhat dismayed to be told by you that some lack that ability while at the same time I’m supposed to accept abuse tantamount to the expletives of a rabid rabbit caught on some rusty barbed wire fence. So if it is all – “it's all double dutch, psychic stuff, off beat, way to deep and scary, mad, really.” – then there is precious little I can do to help you. To make that plain – certain of us have to accept abuse while certain others, without any leash whatsoever get to deliver that abuse? And this is in the public domain? All I can say is that there is no way “Monty Python’s Flying Circus” would make ratings these days. No sense of humour left whatsoever!

lyn

16/11/2010Hi Calligula [quote]there is precious little I can do to help you[/quote] Thankyou for thinking you could help me, and thankyou for your compliment, I hope you enjoy today's links, there are some great writers out there, we have one here that belongs to us Ad Astra. We will just have to agree, that I don't, can't, understand what you are trying to say and that's that. No I haven't been on a motorcycle or flown through moonlight clouds, so guess I haven't lived, I don't accept abuse, and nobody has ever abused me, you know what I'm happy, I have had and have still a great life.

patriciawa

17/11/2010lyn, you are in very good company! Well said. Talk Turkey, surely if you have a website it's in the public domain and can be published here. Some of us would welcome the chance to visit and sticky beak around. Make sure your stuff is all copyrighted though, I'm pea green with envy at many of your lines. Just been looking up Heliogabalus which in my ignorance I thought might be one of your inventions! My knowledge of Roman history is very superficial and all around Julius Caesar et al. Five hundred years of Emperors! Too much detail for me. A few of their reigns read remarkably like Kevin Rudd's brief time in office. Political intrigue and power plays are timeless, it seems.

CALLIGULA

17/11/2010Dear Lyn - “All I can say is that there is no way “Monty Python’s Flying Circus” would make ratings these days. No sense of humour left whatsoever! “ I say that with no intention of suggesting a comparison of my life/lifestyle with yours. For all I know you are WonderWoman and have the sheer joy of flying a pure crystal jet fighter through the skys in formation with your Amazonian colleagues. I’d still like to know what happened to your sense of humour – or did it dissolve with some directive from head office? To make that clear – Yes. I have been pushing the envelope with you people since you have all come down pretty hard on JJ and Sir Crisp whazzisname. An open ‘comment’ to the rest of you ‘rabble rousers’ - I have been perfectly frank with you people. I let you know immediately my own weblog was operating. I have seen hits on that originating from TPS and had honestly believed I had you people as allies in the present discontinuity. As a matter of fact I do find it immensely hurtful that some of your contributors seem disinclined to read through certain comments on these pages. I usually ask someone here to proofread whatever I put together before I send it along. I usually remember to use ‘spellcheck’. And I usually remember to refrain from biting someone directly like some cornered guttersnipe. I simply cannot explain when I ask them the simple question – “What do I mean there” – that they can relate back to me the same meaning I intended in the communication – but when it gets to your end everyone gripes. Arthur reckons none of you can read. In the meantime I’ve just heard about the next royal wedding. I hope you all receive your invitations. That’ll sort you out in the same way as rapid promotion in the Masonic Lodge. But like with Monty Python, you probably wouldn’t understand.

CALLIGULA

17/11/2010Patwicia – Stap me! I’ve just clicked on TT’s link. He’s a bloody tradesman as best I can gather. So go for it PatWAcia. He/she’s your best hope – “just sticky back around” (your words) Whatever you do please never visit my weblog and read anything there. Whatever you do, do not look at the pikkies. It would confront you far too much. Hells Bells; you might LEARN something. Good Grief, you might even have a laugh ! No – most likely you’ll have a seizure. Hey everyone out there watching this space – watch Patwisha spit out her dummy/ Okay Pat. See how nasty it is if I carry on the way you do?

lyn

17/11/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]Sic em, Harry, Petering Time , North Coast Voices[/i] Sometimes being Speaker in the House of Representatives in the Australian Parliament would test the patience of a saint. On days like this Harry Jenkins is a joy to behold. Yesterday Harry went Teh Poodle, snapped at Robb, sat Hockey smartly on his behind, and warned Randall along with about eight other MPs: http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com/ [i]Why electricity is going up , Steve, Opinion Dominion[/i] A carbon price could actually ease pressure on household electricity bills, assuming we're serious about hitting our target of cutting emissions by 30 per cent http://opiniondominion.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-electricity-is-going-up.html [i]Abetz is the real hypocrite, Jeremy Sear, An Onymous Lefty[/i] Abetz is also a member of the Liberal Party, which receives large donations, in secret, all the time. http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/ [i]Court redefines a fair suck, Mungo MacCallum, The Echo[/i] the law propounded by Ruddock for John Howard and adopted by Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard had not been properly applied. http://www.echo.net.au/opinion-piece/court-redefines-fair-suck [i]Generation Left?[Or,Conservative-Fatigue],Super Opinion,The Notion Factory[/i] it is indicative of the problems they faced in 2010 election, and that they will continue to face if they remain determined to play safe, centrist politics. http://notionfactory.net:80/2010/11/16/generation-left-or-conservative-fatigue/ [i]Our fast-vanishing national media diversity, Bernard Keane, Crikey[/i] The Packer-Murdoch buy-in of the Ten Network will cause little reduction in media diversity in individual markets http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/16/then-there-were-six-our-fast-vanishing-national-media-diversity/ NewStart is $231 & shrinking relative to other benefits, Peter Martin Can anyone else see a problem? "If they have been looking for work for a few years and have a health problem the incentive to be redefined as disabled gets greater and greater." http://www.petermartin.com.au/ [i]Climate Clark Kent: Greg Combet, Kevin Rennie, Think about it[/i]. Australia's new Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency, might look like Clark Kent but politically he is a Superman. http://climatechange.thinkaboutit.eu/think4/post/climate_clark_kent_greg_combet [i]TOO LATE? Libs decisive move on Greens preferences welcomed by the heartland, Nick Mack, Vex News[/i]Most politicos expected the Liberals to preference the Greens ahead of Labor. Baillieu certainly was dragged screaming and kicking http://www.vexnews.com/news/11550/too-late-libs-decisive-move-on-greens-preferences-welcomed-by-the-heartland/ [i]The Burmese Cat On The Hot Tin Roof, Ashghebranious, Ash's machiavellian Bloggery[/i]however, you can not take someone’s dignity; they need to give it up. Suu Kyi has refused to do this http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com:80/2010/11/17/the-burmese-cat-on-the-hot-tin-roof/ [i]I’m an Aborigine . . . just ask me, Miglo, Cafe Whispers[/i] local Aboriginal people have been ignored in favour of ‘real Aborigines’, supposedly living in a tribal life in the bush. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/11/16/im-an-aborigine-just-ask-me/

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17/11/2010LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/Lyns-Daily-Links.aspx

TalkTurkey

17/11/2010PatriciaWA Thank you for you declaration of envy! I think that perhaps envy is an even sincerer form of praise than imitation . . . Not that with your prolificity articulation passion and other top qualities you have anything to be envious of anyone about. You rock. Heliogabalus for those who don't know and don't want to waste time looking was a Roman Emperor with a great sense of humour, he had a brass bull made, hollow inside, door on the side so you could shove the night's entertainer inside, lock the door, set a fire underneath, the witty bit was that the mouth was a megaphone so you could hear the man's shouts of amusement as he got cooked . . . Surely an overmatch for Caligula's Horse? One of the funniest bits was that the originator of the Bull was used to test how well the Bull worked . . . What a hoot.

TalkTurkey

17/11/2010Calligula Good to know you're Queensland-based. Makes getting the basic ingredients easy. 5 oz Blue Meanies (Goldtops will do, use more) 3 Cane Toad gonads Fresh Flying Fox guano, pref. rabid 6 Pumpkin Scones, thoroughly mouldy 1 large Stonefish, dead at least five days Pound in a clam shell with Jo B-J's fibula,, Insert with grease gun through nostrils until mixture exudes through both ears. That should fix you up.

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17/11/2010CALLIGULA After reading your overnight contributions I went back to the beginning of this piece and read all your contributions to this post, around twenty. I looked for how you had contributed to the theme of the post. You began with a question about what is ‘truth’, and pointed out that an engineer’s ‘truth’ might be different from truth in other contexts. You then alluded to case-based reasoning – casuistry – in the context of the ‘meretrix’, ‘a lady that turned no one away’, a prostitute in fact. I found this puzzling. Thereafter, much of what you wrote was in response to the contributions of others, but only marginally related to the theme. Thereafter there appeared comments that sounded condescending; you began to use phrases such as ‘none of you guys’, ‘are you so completely gullible’, and ‘you seem to have it all entirely wrong once again’ accompanied by a prescription of Bex and a cup of tea. Then adverse references to women began, culminating in your ‘willful stupidity of femininity of all ages’ comment. My attempts to moderate your comments evoked still more argumentative contributions, which like FS I found circumlocutory, and like Lyn, at times I hadn’t got a clue what you were talking about. You may find that if your contributions were less convoluted, less cryptic, more understandable to others who blog here, more like a logical engineer might make, that you would evoke different responses from others. On the one hand you condescendingly imply that many of us are below par in our understanding, yet on the other hand you write in a manner that someone below par is unlikely to understand. As we have no desire to continually scrap with you, especially about matters that are not germane to the theme, can we simply draw a line under the current dialogue we are having with you and get back to addressing the issue of how lies, deception, slogans and mantras kill the truth in politics?

Feral Skeleton

17/11/2010Calligula, Essentially, as I comprehend it, and, please, enough of the patronising talk about failure to understand Shakespeare, I doubt you ever did understand it quite as well as what you flatter yourself to think, because, if you did, you would have read his constant skewering of the vain and pompous, such as yourself, in many a Shakespearian play; nevertheless, as I said, basically what you are trying to tell us here is that if we were to open our minds and go to your blog, all would be revealed, we would see the error of our ways here on TPS, see the light, and recant our dangerous thinking. We would see 'the Truth and the Light', courtesy of your blog, stop lying to ourselves, and each other here, and know as the 'Truth', denigration of females as lesser individuals than men courtesy of misogynistic religiosity, the virtue of a gun culture, and the fact that those who sit around reading books are superior beings. Erm, no.

Sir Ian Crisp

17/11/2010How very wise to hold the press on HS's/FS's next blog "'putting at risk our money' into context". With the imminent release of the NBN's business case HS/FS may have to do some weaving and dodging. I remain intrigued as to how HS/FS will work the 'P' word into her essay.

TalkTurkey

17/11/2010From PatriciaWA (I like your ID with Capitals if that's OK with you and I like to think of your ID as Patois BTW): - "Talk Turkey, surely if you have a website it's in the public domain and can be published here. Some of us would welcome the chance to visit and sticky beak around. Make sure your stuff is all copyrighted though, I'm pea green with envy at many of your lines." Yes I'll love showing yous all my work, a bit thereof anyway, but I'll be UNFROCKED! I say that with a certain sadness. You still don't guess my gender do you eh anyone? Or if you know it I bet it's because of some way you looked up me pants online somehow. I never meant to be secret about it, in fact before I ever started this bloggery I sort of anticipated that everyone would be certain of e/os genders. Well Aa is, Lyn is, HS I soon realized, Sir Ian's a bloke, most of you it is clear what sort of pants you wear. . So then when I hadn't actually announced myself quite unintentionally, but jj I think to be f, but when I realized there was even conjecture as to my em- or effness I felt quite chuffed. If I'm f then I have been the equivalent of any m in talking turkey. If I'm m I have not bullied women on account of their effness. But who was it, FS or Lyn, reckons they knows? That I've left more clues than I even knew about? You still don't know what sort of pants I wear, I betcha, not from what I've told you, have I? The thing is I'm a bit proud of having been indeterminate on the one hand and worthy of the wondering on the other. I really would like to end up being fully confident that I at least could opine myself non-sexist, [I think I'm a bit racist, I feel a sneaky bond with my fellow Rangas . . ! . . Only because we are discriminated in more ways than all yous B's (Blonds, Browns, Blacks!) could ever imagine. Not discriminated against, necessarily, 'fact it can sure be positive, but just discriminated. Picked out instantly, and much more likely to be picked on, and also likely to be picked. In movies, in ads, in classrooms and workplaces, as infants, everywhere. On an Aussie Rules footy field or in a Netball team, do something brill and you're an instant star. Do something just not-very-good once and you're pulled. All redheads know this, though in most cases they haven't brought it to full consciousness: they've always lived with it, but living with it is at a higher voltage, just by vitue of the notable colouring, than for B's. And I read a study I forget wherein long ago, said that in the US Redheads top the charts in 5 huge categories, beyond PR's and Amerinds and Negroes, er, imprisonment, domestic violence, institutionalized mental illness, alcoholism and suicide! And whether those were reliable figures or not, I do know that colourism does bites on my dear ranga bros and sis's, so I'm in to bat for Us. But Us is all of Us anyway, not just rangas. Other living things too. It would be good to be able to get right beyond all racism sexism colourism lingoism and especially jingoism, but redheads will always be discriminated no matter what.] So anyway I'm glad to think I can't be all that sexist, if smart folks like Yous aren't sure unless you investigate beyond this blog. (Which wouldn't count.) I am interested in what your guesses might be though, unless I've forgotten somewhere along the line and told you outright. So go on then, whattya reckon? Egg-layer or Gobbler? 'Cos after I link you to my weird but nice site you'll know anyway. That's if, Aa, you think it is appropriate to expose myself like that, so to speak. (My site, like the sounds and sweet airs on Prospero's island in Twelfth Night, gives delight and hurts not. If we're going to get Shakespearean.) Yeah go on. Ad astra? Lyn? H/FS? PatriciaWA NasKing? NormanK? Miglo (to whom Thanks for your efforts) Anyone else Especially li'l jj and Limpy? Place your bets. Never forgetting I'm a self-styled Liar Bird. Then I'll unfrock myself, if Aa reckons it's cool.

lyn

17/11/2010Hi Talk Turkey Well look, we love your comments, we certainly appreciate your wonderful talent for writing, I must say I have had a great time reading your sense of humour and your brilliant writing. Talk Turkey you are an asset to "The Political ", your opinion is greatly appreciated. I am sure everybody would appreciate visiting your blog and reading your work, just the same as we enjoy lots of other blogs. Thankyou for your contributions they are very enjoyable. What I want to say is in no way meant to offend you in even the smallest way: We really don't care if you are a real turkey, or not, much less a m of f, to use your term, don't you see ,it doesn't matter to the conversation. What does matter to us is, that Mr Abbott may get elected Prime Minister of our Country, with a miserable Coalition Government back in power, with lies and more lies, on top of lies. This is why we try to put forward our opinion, we came very close to an Abbott Government, I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I would be extremely distressed should this ever happen. The "Today's links are provided in good faith for the very reason that I have explained above. So Talk Turkey I love you, but I don't care about M or F. Plus I don't care if Caligulla is Arthur or Martha either.

NormanK

17/11/2010Talk Turkey Egg-layer! As a fellow Ranga (an expression I had never heard until it was applied to Julia Gillard but then we are a little backward up here in NQ), I have to check whether you have read Tom Robbins' "Still Life With Woodpecker"? Redheads will rule the world and we are descended from creatures from another planet. Back on topic as it draws to a close, there is a misconception floating around that Wayne Swan can't even get his budget forecasts right so how can Labor ever be expected to bring in a budget surplus. In one of her posts above jj flirted with the idea, not for the first time, that Treasury are incapable of producing Budget predictions as evidenced by the fact that each time that they do, the numbers come out different. This idea gets bandied about in relation to the NBN - How do they know how much it's going to cost when they can't even get the budget right? The MRRT gets the same treatment - What's wrong with Swan that he keeps changing the projected income stream from the mining tax? When you attach this idea of mathematical incompetence to "they'll never deliver a surplus" you end up with a nice cycle of self-perpetuating myth. Fictional rhetoric lending weight to opinionated rhetoric leading to the conclusion that Labor are hopeless with money because they can't do the maths and around we go again. Even if Treasury were to produce a Budget forecast at 3.00 pm every Thursday afternoon there would be no consistency in the numbers from week to week because there are far too many variables such as commodity prices, productivity and the relative strength of the Aussie dollar to name but a few. This doesn't diminish the perception though that Swan sits down in his office with a calculator and repeatedly muffs the sums. How anyone can think that predicting the state of the economy two and a half years into the future is an exact science is beyond me and yet people still do. This uncertainty of the numbers then gives Hockey & Co ammunition with which to lambast the Budget calling the figures "made up" or "grossly optimistic" even though these are the same principles and formulae used by all governments (including Conservative ones) all around the world. And no-one seems to correct them or call their bluff. To my mind this is mendacious behaviour in the extreme and my blood boils to see Hockey and Robb trot out these lines and it saddens my heart to think that some people believe them.

Ad astra reply

17/11/2010TT Until you mentioned it, I hadn’t given any serious thought to your gender. I suppose your ‘Talk Turkey’ pseudonym inclined me, almost subconsciously, towards maleness, but it is what you write that has attracted my attention. One of the attractions of [i]TPS[/i] is the substantial number of females who enrich the debate here, and there may be many more than the pseudonyms suggest. The capacity to think laterally and in multiple dimensions seems to come more naturally to them than it does to us males, many of whom, myself included, tend to think and argue linearly, even when the subject demands a multi-dimensional approach. Of course some males also exhibit this trait. So if I had to make a guess, I’d say you were female, but it doesn’t really matter – what you write and the way you do it, does.

2353

17/11/2010TT, if you feel advising everyone who or what you are is important - do so. Otherwise I'm not particularly concerned either way.

patriciawa

17/11/2010[quote]Let's Talk Turkey![/quote] Dear Liar, Liar Pants on Fire - The situation isn't dire. We love you as our own live wire, Not as an object of desire! Why not just say that you are 'bi' - Even if it is a lie. Then if you really are a guy, There'll be no need to explain why. No one here will be at all hurt If you wear pants and not a skirt. We don't come to the Sword to flirt. Right minded types may well throw dirt And even say the site's obscene, That you're deceitful and unclean! They'd long suspected you were Green! Yes, they'll write and vent their spleen. They'll sneer that birds of a feather Always will gather together. Then they'll get into a dither As they start wondering whether Other people they know will say, “Doesn’t that mean you too gay?” Then, at last, they'll go away! So we who are Left can shout, "Hooray!"

lyn

17/11/2010Hi PatriciaWA Priceless, a poem for the moment, thankyou Patricia very enjoyable, our clever little lady.

patriciawa

17/11/2010Yes, but I ommitted [quote]are[/quote] in the third last line, so that line should read [quote]"Doesn't that mean you too are gay?"[/quote] Talk Turkey will know how much it hurts me not to be able to correct it! Perhaps Ad Astra will fix it for me. I was rushing to get it in before the thread closed!

D Mick Weir

17/11/2010I have been pondering this post quite a bit over the last few days attempting to put some sensible words together that would add to the discussion and kept going in circles and then along comes [b]NormanK[/b] @ November 17. 2010 03:41 PM writing most of what I was thinking! Thanks NK But there is hope ..... Yesterday in parliament Dr Andrew Leigh (Fraser) spoke on a [b]Matter of Public Importance – Economy[/b]; and he made some interesting observations and comments that lead me to suspect the fightback is on. (Fightback might be the wrong word given its' history but it will do for now.) [i]"... those opposite have no commitment to economic reform." "... it is important to refer to the position that those opposite take when it comes to economic reform. The Leader of the Opposition has been reported as saying that economics is a bore. It is as though he thinks that saving Australian jobs, improving our tax system and dealing with climate change are all sideshows to the main game: coming up with a snappy, three-word slogan for the evening news."[/i] There is more and worth the read. The transcript is here: http://www.andrewleigh.com/blog/?p=210 I wonder if it has been (or will be) reported on anywhere?

democracyATwork

18/11/2010Thanks for the kind welcome. I also publish a running blog on polls and elections at http://pollblogger.blogspot.com Always prepared to challenge the concept of democracy and the methods we use to elect our representatives. if your going to have a preferential based system then it might as well be accurate. The Australian Senate system certainly is not. We spend a lot of energy and money contesting seats won by a handful of votes yet a senate seat that is delivered to the wrong candidates by an error in the way we count the vote can deliver a distortion on the count by over 14,000 votes. The Australian Electoral commission have a way of avoiding the question and argue that 1 plus 1 does not necessarily equal 2. I guess it is what you want it to be. It just a matter of who you count the cards. IN Australia's case we go to a lot of trouble providing a preferential ballot but we are not prepared to count it properly. Even then the flaws in the system are staring us in the face the administration turn a blind eye to its vulnerabilities. Th e fact that we elected the wrong person in 2007 Queensland Senate election has raised no concerns for fear of the system being brought into disrepute. If they do not fix it, the system and those who allow its flaws to continue to remain can only be held in disrepute. [If we counted money and dividends as the Australian government counts the vote our financial system would collapse overnight]. Why should we count our vote any different then we would money. If they can not count it properly then we might as well just adopt a party list system and save a lot of angst A fair, honest and accurate electoral system is not too much to ask for is it?

TalkTurkey

18/11/20102353 I don't think telling people about my gender is real important, and I didn't start this conjecture about it neither, 2 or 3 of the regulars did, I just got amused by the situation, and it pleases me to think that what anyone says on this medium can be completely gender non-specific. There is a point here though. I'm quite proud of the fact that in Australia women can realistically aspire to everything, including head of state and PM. We have far to go with indigenous issues and some other humanitarian issues but prejudices relating to gender are nearly scotched. For months I have been writing stuff that wasn't intentionally secretive about my gender, it just happened I didn't say anything like I once played for the Redlegs or the Opals . . . I think it is a sign of maturity in Australian society, or rather in the society of bloggers, that, exactly, it ISN'T important. But jj asks why I don't do stuff other than bagging the Rotten Right (as I do) and Prof.Skeleton asks why I don't get my gravatar up (as I can't so far) and I would gladly share my non-gravatar iconic art and stuff as on my own website with everyone, but then Swordsfolk WILL be able to sex me like a Turkey chick, my ID is all over it, and that will necessarily mean even to this august company a certain (certain!) degree of stereotyping . . . (stupid man/bloody woman) . . . so in the meantime I want to challenge your precepts, while I am still an airy spirit, having fun without being subject to gender-based prejudice. Once I'm defrocked I can never get my innocence (!) back. Lyn, thanks for your declaration of love, I love you too. Because you are a comrade. Offend me? Ma-a-a-ate! Don'cha believe me, I said it's your Links that I wake up to? Just seeing Tweety sets me up for the day! (But you piked out on taking a punt, didnya!) NormanK, great to hear that we share the genetic inability to produce one of the human pigments, leaving us a bit like the product of a printer that's run out of cyan . . . which is all it really amounts to. Yes I have read and delighted in Still Life With Woodpecker, how can you not love an outlaw who can make a Bat Guano Bomb to bust out of gaol or whatever, btw just this morning I included bat guano in the potion I recommended Calligula squirt up his nose until it dealt with the strange thing calligulumphing around his cranial cavity . . . Speaking of, and now to, Calligula: "Stap me!" That's an expression my dear old Dad used to use, I thought no-one but I used it anymore, Ta Calli! "I’ve just clicked on TT’s link." I don't know what link you mean . . . Please explain? "He’s a bloody tradesman as best I can gather." Well no, I'm not, what means this too? "So go for it PatWAcia. He/she’s your best hope – 'just sticky back around' (your words)" Well no, she said sticky BEAK around . . . Ad astra, as always with the gravitas, you are correct about what is important here, content, clarity, validity, perspicacity, pertinacity (mea culpa), but you got a bob each way on me too, tee hee . . . PatriciaWA, ROFLMAO! And I knew what you meant instantly when I read your pome, but yes I feel your pain at your typo, I hate such petty flaws too. It is its notional perfection that counts. Viva, Verse! To wrap up, back to Lyn: Whatever the diversions, TPS ever since I happened across it has ALWAYS been right on subject in the main game sense, no risk. One thing I agree on with Abbort: the battle lines are very stark indeed. And like you Lyn, that is always what I keep my eye on. Don't we all! Venceremos! No pasaran!

Sir Ian Crisp

18/11/2010I also hope Dr Andrew Leigh's wise words are reported widely. I also hope that the report details why Dr Leigh doesn't question his own treasurer who praised Ireland for showing us the way forward with regard to bank guarantees. This is how Ireland is viewed today: "WHEN I wrote in The Irish Times last May showing how the bank guarantee would lead to national insolvency, I did not expect the financial collapse to be anywhere near as swift or as deep as has now occurred. During September, the Irish Republic quietly ceased to exist as an autonomous fiscal entity, and became a ward of the European Central Bank." http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1108/1224282865400.html?via=mr

Sir Ian Crisp

18/11/2010Where is the latest FS/HS essay? The TPS Senate demands it be produced.

lyn

18/11/2010Hi Talk Turkey Ok you win, because we luv's yu: [quote]Tweety sets me up for the day! (But you piked out on taking a punt, didnya!) [/quote] Sounds like a guy to me, "you're a gobbler Talk Turkey". See, now I put it in writing, hope I don't get into trouble. Cheers

Feral Skeleton

18/11/2010Sir Ian, Your rationalisation wrt a comparison between the Irish economy, who gave a bank guarantee, and the Australian economy, who give a bank guarantee, is spurious. The Irish economy collapsed after its Housing Bubble burst, and also due to the very low rate of Corporate Tax, 12.5%, that they used as a honey pot to lure, mainly, High Tech businesses to their country. Australia also has a moderate Housing Bubble, however recent statistics suggest it is slowly deflating as a result of the recent Interest Rate increases. We, in Australia, also have a rate of Corporate Tax over twice that of Ireland, as well as continuing Trade Surpluses a result of our Resource-based economy.

Feral Skeleton

18/11/2010D Mick Weir and Sir Ian Crisp, Dr Andrew Leigh is truly a Thinking Woman's piece of crumpet. :)

Feral Skeleton

18/11/2010OK, looking good for everyone to have a red hot go today on my new blog about the economy!

lyn

18/11/2010Hi Democracy at work Thankyou for alerting us of your blog, I had a quick look just now, very interesting, will go back again later.

Feral Skeleton

18/11/2010I knew it! Talk Turkey is a femme fatale. :)

Feral Skeleton

18/11/2010Sir Ian Crisp, As a skeleton, I am transparent. :) I cannot and would not wish to hide anything from you all in the TPS Senate Chambers.

Feral Skeleton

18/11/2010Democracy At Work, What bugs me about Senate Proportional representation is that Preference deals between Micro parties and the Major parties can lead to representatives of those parties taking seats that shouldn't really be theirs according to raw votes. Eg., Steve Fielding of Family First. Also those pesky Shooting, Fishing and 4WD parties.

lyn

18/11/2010[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]One of these things is not like the other, Ashghebranious, Ash's Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] The ACTU says CEOs are earning 100 times more than the average worker. (ABC News: Billy Cooper) http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com:80/2010/11/18/one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other/ [i]LAST TIME I VOTED GREEN - NOT THIS TIME, Pollblogger[/i] According to Morgan the Greens on a 2PP against the ALP could secure over 50% of the vote. http://pollblogger.blogspot.com/ [i]Victorian Coalition campaign Launch, The Conscience vote[/i] It’s not enough to run down your opponents and mutter darkly about a ‘Labor-Greens alliance’. Voters need to know that you’d do better. http://consciencevote.wordpress.com:80/2010/11/17/victorian-coalition-campaign-launch/ [i]A 50 / 50 proposition, dave Gaukroger, Pure Poison[/i] But.. could.. But.. But.. But.. may.. But.. could.. may.. but.. however.. wait to see what happens.. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2010/11/17/a-50-50-proposition/#more-8077 [i]Being Seen, Neil Cook, the Bannerman[/i] an opposition vowed and declared to oppose everything the government puts forward, frustrating the political process at any and every turn http://www.waddayano.org/blog/2010/11/being_seen.php#more [i]Old Julia sparks up new question time, Bernard Keane, Crikey[/i] Mr Abbott’s posture has been that of a dog more inclined to enjoy a nice lie in the sun than get up and snarl at anyone. http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/17/old-julia-sparks-up-new-question-time/ [i]Banks Costs, They're increading. But less than the cash rate, Peter Martin[/i] "It's like making hamburgers. If meat accounts for a third of your costs and the price of meat goes up 10 per cent, you shouldn't be http://www.petermartin.com.au/ [i]The Public Interest, David Havyatt, Anything Goes[/i] my CPRF paper delivered yesterday in which I conclude that there is no evidence that the decline in prices in telecommunications http://davidhavyatt.blogspot.com/ [i]Murray-Darling Basin: nothing changes ,Gary Sauer-Thompson,Public Opinion[/i] it is a surprise to find Graeme Batten in his A response to the Guide to the proposed Murray-Darling Basin Plan at Online Opinionthat a simple and rapid reduction in water allocations to irrigation communities is not acceptable http://www.sauer-thompson.com/ [i]The Coal-ition's policy on climate change, Michael Rowan, On Line Opinion[/i] Do they believe that in addition to our national land and sea boundaries we also have our own atmosphere? http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11248 [i]When A Monopoly Beats Competition, Ian McAuley, New Matilda[/i] That minor point has been inflated into a major political criticism of the NBN, both by those who believe we do not need such an ambitious project http://newmatilda.com/2010/11/17/when-monopoly-beats-competition

Ad astra reply

18/11/2010Folks I've just posted the latest from Hillbilly/Feral Skeleton titled [i]Deficit Hawks and Spending Doves[/i] an erudite exposition of a subject that has been hammered relentlessly by the Coalition. Enjoy. http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2010/11/18/Deficit-Hawks-and-Spending-Doves.aspx

Ad astra reply

18/11/2010Folks I'm closing comments on this piece. You can comment on H/FS's new piece [i]Deficit Hawks and Spending Doves[/i] http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2010/11/18/Deficit-Hawks-and-Spending-Doves.aspx
How many oranges do I have if I have 3 oranges and take ONE away?