Holy Rollin’ Politics, Batman!

 


In the 21st century, contemporary Conservatism has surrendered to a virulent, dystopian and pathologically hyper-individualist state of mind and populist Right Wing ideology.

From the proclamations and intimations by Conservative politicians that the unemployed are poor because they lack drive. An Orwellian political vocabulary of 'job creators' and 'non-productive citizens'; opining that poor people have it relatively easy, thus we have a right and a duty to make their lives harder by forcing them out of their homes and on the road around the country to take whatever work is going in areas seeking unskilled labour to work for small reward or satisfaction, in back-breaking jobs, because it will be good for their souls, for wages barely above the Unemployment benefit they have been forced off. So has modern Conservatism transformed itself away from its traditional 'Liberal' roots supporting a Social Safety Net to a virtual enactment of the Protestant Work Ethic as policy?

The fact is, the Conservative political movement has intertwined itself with the Conservative Christian movement, to the extent that we have had a virtual takeover of one by the other and thus we should now really refer to them as Conservative Christian political parties. The secular nature of most Conservative political parties is fast evaporating in the heat of this hot and heavy takeover by the Religious Right, and thus they have started to manifest as policy stances many positions which only blind faith in religion encompasses.

It's up to the secular, Progressive side of politics to start calling them out as such, to point out the inconsistencies when their stated positions contradict the Christian principles they say they espouse, and the 'Faith-Based' policies that they are trying to insert into government and make the law of the land. Such that they are humiliated by their hypocrisy or they have to come out from behind the facade that they are not what they in fact are, as they try to foist themselves upon the electorate. So that the electorate sees them as the Devils in a Blue Tie that they are, as a result of the contradictory and unchristian principles they also espouse at one and the same time as they proclaim their angelic godliness.

It is because I have begun to wonder lately where the Christian Conservatism of Tony Abbott has taken his party-even further into territory originally colonised in the 'God Under Howard' era of politics we have only just recently slipped the bonds of, that I thought I would tackle this subject. Thus, as a natural extension of those thoughts, where would Tony Abbott's brand of Religious Right Conservatism take Australia and also what does that equate to in a philosophical sense?

Of course, there are links and parallels with the Religious Right in other countries, and most notably the Republican Party in the USA.

Even as a fervent believer in the Separation of Church and State, and as a secular atheist, I nevertheless feel that to ignore the presence of these people in our polity in the hope and belief that the strength of our arguments will prevail in the court of public opinion over the obvious weakness of the ideological world of Christian politics that they inhabit, as we see it from the outside, and while we keep our metaphorical fingers in our ears and our eyes screwed shut ignoring them, in an attempt to deny them any legitimacy, is foolish at worst and negligent at best.

So I'll attempt to explain it as I see it. Which does not make me right and them wrong, as they do what they do and believe in why they are doing and what the philosophical reasons that underpin their lives and their politics are, for reasons best known to them. I just think that we should seek to understand them before we make a decision about them at the ballot box.

Suffice to say I see them as a threat to good governance of this country, especially in their most extreme iterations. On the other hand, you might agree that in the guise of a Christian Moderate politician, such as Kevin Rudd, that these sort of politicians can be well-meaning and effective governors of our country. You could almost argue that is fair enough when combined with social democratic politics particularly. You might almost be able to call it the politics of the Good Samaritan.

However, I can also see that modern Conservative political parties have melded with Conservative Christian religious adherents and have become, almost, religions themselves to their followers.

Let me explain.

Traditional Conservatism, well that which came after Universal Suffrage and the Mercantilists and Landholders lost their grip on it and had been kicked to the curb by the Conservative movement's embrace of Small Businessmen and Women, has been governed by a basic tenet which stressed the importance of continuity and economic and social stability. Those who supported them did so, in the main because they knew what Conservatives stood for, as exemplified by Menzies 26 years in power in Australia, as opposed to Progressive political ideology and its supporters, who advocate social change and policy adventurism as the means to the end of improving society.

However, lately, you'd have to ask yourself whether the tables have turned and it has become the Conservatives that have become the radicals, advocating that society change away from what has become settled public policy, agreed upon by successive generations in the broad and by most democracies since the time of The Great Depression and World War 2. Basic tenets such as the Social Safety Net. A change typified by Ayn Rand Libertarian economic acolytes from Right Wing Think Tanks, such as The Institute for Public Affairs and The Centre for Independent Studies in Australia, and The Heritage Foundation, Americans For Prosperity, and The Cato Institute, and others too numerous to mention ('cause that's where all the tax dollars they dodge paying to government have gone), in the USA. Who appear to want to go back to the time before The Great Depression and The New Deal, when the Oligarchs ruled the roost, having learnt or not caring about, the history they are dooming us to painfully repeat, to live and die an early death by, all over again. And, if you have been listening to the Republican Party Debates to pick a Presidential contender, you will know what I mean by that.

These people, who are well educated, have discovered the means by which they can co-opt that class of people, and voters, who formerly voted for Social Democratic and Workers Parties.

This they have done by infiltrating religion back into the mainstream of people's lives, and the unquestioning obedience that goes hand-in-hand with that, and a Utopian ideal for them to subscribe to, which they can strive for, as members, not of the Ruling Class, that's for a very select few, but as members of the Aspirational Class.

However they are also the Kindermenschen to the Ubermenschen Conservative elites. Often Small Business Owners and Self-Funded Retirees, who have had some small degree of success in their lives, based on not much by way of an education which would enlighten them either.

These people are easily recognised as they wave misspelled signs at demonstrations, organised by the exploiters of their easily-aroused passions. These demonstrations need to be numerous to keep them on the boil, energised and angry; and their opposition, the Labor party, destabilised, demoralised and constantly antagonised.

This has the twin benefits of making it always seem as though Progressive governments, in whatever country, are doing something wrong and are incompetent, or else why would people be so agitated? Plus, it blocks the good news getting out about the good things the government is doing, and thus maybe seeping into people's consciences in place of the FUD. Aided and abetted by a conspiratorially compliant media it becomes an easy fait accompli.

A bit like religion, really. Constant brainwashing becomes the basis of their reality. Such that you could almost make the case that modern 'backlash' Conservatism has become akin to a religious faith, so reliant is it now, not on provable realities but dogma and doggerel delivered by demi-godlike leaders of political parties deeply grounded in the tricks of the Preacher/Priest trade...Like ex-Seminarian, Tony Abbott. They have brought along fellow travellers who see themselves now as Conservative Christian Warriors for the political parties they follow...Like Anders Behring Breivik in Norway.

I'll just offer this quote from:
'Has American-Style Conservatism Become A Religion?' to explain the concept:

'Ideology is grounded in the real world. It offers us a philosophical lens through which we can efficiently process what's happening in the world around us. Religion is different. It's a fixed belief system based on faith, and it is immune to-or at least highly resistant to-challenges mounted by objective reality.'

...Like the Manicheans-adherants of one of the world's great religions at one point in history-they tend to see a world, in stark relief, in black and white terms, defined by a conflict between the forces of light and darkness, good and bad.'

The forces of good are decent, conservative, 'real', Australian/Americans-mostly White, married, Christians, but with exceptions made for others who keep the faith.'  

Anyway, every movement needs it's foot soldiers. And these people have slotted nicely into the role for the Conservatives as they launch their fight back to power.

They stand immovably opposed to a wide array of diabolical figures (and, don't forget, El Diablo is another name for you know who), such as 'liberals', gays, Muslims, 'Socialists', and, essentially, anyone who disagrees with them.

Like Climate Scientists.

Here is the most pure example of the cross-fertilisation between religion and politics. No one group has been so demonised recently, and as thoroughly as they have.

Look at how it works.

The Climate Scientists have produced an overwhelming body of scientific evidence to prove the existence of Anthropogenic Global Warming.

The Oligarchs who fund and provide direction for the latter-day Conservative movement are recalcitrants when it comes to agreeing to do anything about Global Warming and Climate Change, for to do so would have a negative effect on their bottom line and may cause some of their businesses to have to abandon least cost methods of production, and those who emit the most pollution in their businesses would have to pay a compensatory fee to do so.

So, they decide to fund the least cost method of push back. They fund a few scientists, well past the prime of their careers and suffering Attention Deficit Syndrome and a hole in their retirement savings, to carry out some ethically and scientifically-questionable research for them. They find holes in the research done by the reputable scientists, and attempt to poison the well of public goodwill towards the science.

The Oligarchs empower the politicians that they fund to put their message into the public domain. Many of these politicians are themselves Christian Conservatives, well practised in the art of proselytising, and who are pre-Copernican scientific sceptics, as an article of their Faith, and are antagonistic to any theory which flies in the face of Church doctrine.

Thus the virtuous circle is achieved. Christians + Capitalists, working hand-in-glove to defeat Science, by befuddling and brainwashing the uninformed masses.

Just like Religion does.

So, the next part of this story has to involve an exploration of what exactly will the modern Conservative Movement, infused with religious fervour and the fevered style of Holy Rollin' politics, which has been brought to the political stage, manifest as when it comes to policies on the ground?

We already know that Tony Abbott is vehemently opposed to 'The Morning After Pill', RU486. I have no doubt that he would bring that issue back to the floor of parliament, plus others, such as a Doctor's and Pharmacist's 'right' to choose whether they prescribe and dispense Birth Control for women, based upon their religious faith. Not to mention whether the State should fund Abortions through Medicare, or whether a woman will have to pay for one herself if she wants an abortion, which, as a matter of course makes it doubly-hard for poorer women, those most likely to need one for economic reasons, as well as the myriad of other reasons women have. Thus emasculating, and I use that word deliberately, a Woman's Right to Choose.

Not only that, but we are all well-aware of Tony Abbott's anachronistic belief that women are to be the home-makers, while men are to be the protectors and providers, and the god-given head of the household, who has the authority and the last word in the house. I find it no coincidence at all that Tony Abbott's wife, Margie, works with children. This is a clear reflection of the not-so-extreme end of the Christian Patriarchy Movement, which dictates that, if women are to have a job outside of the home, after child-rearing duties are complete. I mean it is entirely plausible that, even with his greater than average salary as a Member of Parliament, the reason that Tony Abbott is still paying off a Second Mortgage, is that his wife was not a member of the workforce until the children had grown up. The Second Mortgage being taken out to set her up in a Business that accords with his religious beliefs.

So, Nurse, Teacher and Child Care Provider are allowed because the traditional Christian Conservative male believes that women nurse, educate (if you take it to extremes and Home School), and care for the children, and raise them up to be evangelists for the faith and to produce more warriors for Christ, equipped to take back the culture from the godless 'liberals', and restore it to it's Christian foundations.

If all this sounds too extraordinary and extreme a fact to contemplate, let's just reflect on who Tony Abbott's Right Hand man in parliament is. Cory Bernardi-a self-professed Christian Soldier.

What do you think?

Rate This Post

Current rating: 1.3 / 5 | Rated 4 times

lyn

26/09/2011Hi Ad Sorry you sill have to delete this lot of Today's links, I copied them of the last thread, but not good enough. I will copy them again from my original. Does make it easier for our readers if they are on the current thread. Cheers:):):):):)

lyn

26/09/2011 [b]TODAY’S LINKS[/b] Un-named sources in the Coalition,Patriciawa, Polliepomes the relentless attacks with speculation and allegations about someone against whom no charges have been laid, like Labor MP, Craig Thomson. This week it seemed almost poetic justice when the media came up with a wellsubstantiated story about Liberal MP, Sophie Mirabella, surely one of the most aggressively slanderous politicians in Canberra. http://polliepomes.wordpress.com/2011/09/25/un-named-sources-in-the-coalition/ Dissecting the Body Politick, Neil Cook, the Bannerman That the loss-making Murdoch-owned outlet is engaged in a campaign of political regime change is beyond doubt. That Murdoch outlets in general are aiding and abetting is equally clear and present. Which Murdoch outlets have 'blogs' authored by Government members? None that I'm aware of. http://www.waddayano.org/blog/2011/09/dissecting_the_body_politick.php#more Howard and Costello faced no adversary and yet squandered a 10 year resources boom, James 00000001 The Carbon Tax retains money in Australia that otherwise flows out. It is that simple, MONEY STAYS IN AUSTRALIA and we are better off. I’m surprised conservatives do not grasp this concept. They instead focus on outflows. http://james00000001.wordpress.com/2011/09/25/howard-and-costello-faced-no-adversary-and-yet- News ltd, pokies and the afl- relentless and wrong, Ceyenne, Murdoch press has the Gillard government in its sights. Just about everything they publish, apart from the obligatory pages devoted to Aussie Idol / X Factor / Masterchef / insert-your-reality-blend-here, is slanted, manipulated and fabricated to convince their readers that Canberra is being run by evil kindergarten dropouts http://www.cyenne.com/discussion/news-ltd-pokies-and-the-afl-relentless-and-wrong/ 'Robot Trucks' To Drive The Mining Boom, Malcolm King, New Matilda NASA-style control room in Perth. It controls the autonomous systems at the mines — Komatsu robot trucks and underground robot trains working 1200 kilometres away in the Pilbara. That’s the future of mining in Australia — robots http://newmatilda.com/2011/09/23/robot-trucks-drive-mining-boom Hockey’s contempt; Lavartus Prodeo nights redux, Jennifer Wilson, No Place for Sheep Dr Bahnisch did invite me back to his blog, and said some of them really wanted me to join in. But I’m a bit squeamish about the stratospheric levels of hostility over there, especially that directed at newcomers who don’t always agree with them. The competition to write the most http://noplaceforsheep.com/2011/09/23/hockeys-contempt-lavartus-prodeo-nights-redux/ REGARDING TODAY’S EDITORIAL IN THE AUSTRALIAN, Oakshott, Independent This allegation from an anonymous Member of Parliament, now reported twice, is factually incorrect, and I suspect was only designed to incite mischief http://roboakeshott.com/node/1043 Environmental Issues Continue To Plague The Region, Alex Schlotzer, The Angle in countries like Indonesia, Papua, Malaysia and West Papua. They continue to log native forests to make room for more aggressive and intense agricultural methods used by industrialised nations. http://theangle.org/2011/09/24/environmental-issues-continue-to-plague-the-region/ The McGorry-Hickie reform controversy- Why has mental health become so political-,Dr Tad, left Flank It is my contention that this simply deepens the contradictions found in the existing model of diagnostic psychiatry rather than overcomingthem. Yet the problem is one faced by all of medicine, which seeks to define health and illness without recognising that such http://left-flank.blogspot.com/2011/09/mcgorry-hickie-reform-controversy-why.html Foolish tax breaks for dangerous oil drilling, Crispin Hull we should be looking at root causes. It certainly it not merely that Australia is a nice place to live. We know this because of the dramatic changesin numbers when overseas conditions change. The boats stopped in 1980 and there were virtually none for a decade. There was a resumption in 1990, http://www.crispinhull.com.au/2011/09/24/foolish-tax-breaks-for-dangerous-oil-drilling/ People smuggling , Australian Federal Police People smugglers are paid by those who wish to enter a country illegally. The people wishing to migrate are involved voluntarily. People traffickers, onthe other hand, use coercion and/or deception, to force people to illegally enter a country. Once the illegal immigrants are in place, people traffickersoften continue to exploit them. http://www.afp.gov.au/policing/human-trafficking/people-smuggling.aspx Andrew Farran on the Malaysia Solution, Australian Observer Put away the funny hats and fluoro vests. Keep the Prime Minister in her office most of the time and let her out to give an occasional speech that actually says something. And instead of those door-stop interviews, schedule a formal press conference once a fortnight. http://aussieobserver.blogspot.com/ Queen on our list of power visitors, David Ellery, Canberra Times Their visit will be followed by US President Barack Obama on November 16 and 17 and Denmark's Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary between November 19 and 26. http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/queen-on-our-list-of-power-visitors/2302712.aspx?storypage=0 The poverty of rationality, John Quiggin Steve Williamson has written a much longer critique of Zombie Economics. It’s a lot more temperate in tone than the blog post I criticised here, and there are some valid points. Nevertheless, the new version exhibits the same fundamental confusion http://crookedtimber.org/2011/09/24/the-poverty-of-rationality/ Toot toot, David Horton The Watermelon Blog There is no doubt that running a very fast train to link Brisbane-Sydney-Canberra-Melbourne makes a lot of sense in order to cut down air travel aswe need to reduce greenhouse gas production wherever we can. But there are quite a few Buts that I would like to see settled http://davidhortonsblog.com/ Matters of public importance - Gillard Government, Anthony Albanese, Parliament House, Canberra They want to put their hand in everyone’s pocket. The shadow Treasurer said yesterday that they not only want to remove the price on carbon butwill remove any assistance that is there, whether it be tax cuts, direct payments and assistance, support for pensioners or support for industry.That is an extraordinary proposition from those opposite. http://anthonyalbanese.com.au/file.php?file=/news/BGMPDLXGAMFDYSMXCPTZFOUC/index.html Gillard Parody Shows Nation’s Blokey Culture, Bloomberg “The jibes about Gillard that upset me are the ones about her childlessness, the ones about her relationship, the assumption that there is a kind of heterosexual norm that she is somehow an escapee from,” Greer said Sept. 12 on ABC’s “Q&A” program, http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-22/gillard-reduced-to-sex-under-flag-shows-nation-s-blokey-culture.html [b]Sophie Mirabella:-[/b] Financial Elder Abuse Report, State Trustees Financial elder abuse involves the taking or misusing of an older person’s money, property or assets by someone in a position of trust. It includes misusing an ATM or credit card; to taking money or property, forcing or forging an older person's signature, or persuading them to change their Will and contracts or power of attorney through deception or undue influence. http://www.statetrustees.com.au/media/latest-news/2011-08-31/financial-elder-abuse-report Financial exploitation: the best kept secret of elder abuse, Paul Blunt , Life and help Library Once the exploiter obtains access to the senior's financial assets, the actual methods of exploitation are likewise predictable. One of the most commonlyused means of transferring property is the general, durable power of attorney. This instrument, which is typically quite useful in dealing with an incapacitated elderly person's affairs http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1000/is_n367/ai_18200034/ Mirabella in the spotlight over money matters, Ray Dixon, Alphine Opinion All voters in this electorate (Indi) really do need to read today’s Age article Power, love and money. Even rusted-on Liberal supporters wouldhave to agree that it raises serious questions over the integrity, ethics and honesty of Sophie Mirabella and whether or not she is a fit person to represent us. http://alpineopinion.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/oh-sophie/#more-12022 Sophie Mirabella a gift wrapped present for the Government, Barry Everingham, Independent Australia Mirabella is a thorn in the side of the dignity of the House of Representatives, where she is an Abbott frontbencher known for her arrogance and ability to demean those she doesn’t like, and as she waddles to the despatch box to make her repulsive points, manages to attract many sniggers from both sides of the House. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/politics/sophie-mirabella-%e2%80%93-a-gift-wrapped-present-for-the-government/ Power, love and money , Michael Bachelard , The Age This story begins in 1994, when young solicitor Sophie Panopoulos first met the man she described in her maiden speech in the House of Representatives as a man whose "intellectual ability and integrity" had inspired her. http://www.theage.com.au/national/power-love-and-money-20110922-1knb7.html#comments Mirabella – Executor and beneficiary | #Auspol, Darin Sullivan, The left Hack Mervyn and Lesley Howard say they are not interested in their father’s money. Both are well enough off not to need it, and if they received any, they would give it to charity. But they do want to be assured that their father was treated with honour and dignity after they were locked out of any decision about his care. http://darinsullivan.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/mirrabella-executor-and-beneficiary-auspol/ Sex in the Inner-City , A State of Mind I've blocked out the name they happily provided because I don't want to get sued. It appears that @vexnews is happy to prioritise a cheap laugh over a little prudence. Time will tell if they end up paying for that (literally!). http://mrtiedt.blogspot.com/2011/09/sex-in-inner-city.html

Ad astra reply

26/09/2011Hi Lyn I've deleted the first batch above. I just didn't want people to miss your links because they were on the last post.

Ad astra reply

26/09/2011FS Thank you another thoughtful piece. It seems to me that the connection between Religion and Conservative Politics is ‘faith’. For example, faith is the only recourse for some religions, and the creationists, who believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old despite a mountain of evidence that it has been in existence for billions of years. That ‘faith’ is based on an interpretation of some of the ‘holy scriptures’, and overrules evidence. In a similar way some political movements require their followers to have ‘faith’ in what they say. Conservatives in the US have persuaded almost half of Americans that Barack Obama is a Muslim, or was born outside of the US. As all the evidence is to the contrary, it must be only ‘faith’ in the veracity of those who inform them that has enabled these people to have beliefs that fly in the face of verifiable evidence. In Australia, we have seen Tony Abbott, aided and abetted by the likes of Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, and of course Lord Christopher Monckton, counter the overwhelming evidence supporting AGW with counterclaims that not only throw doubts on this phenomenon, but the latter people actually deny it with vehemence, so much so that a large section of the population has such ‘faith’ in their pronouncements that they attend rallies, voice their opinions in community meetings and in vox pops, and cast their vote in that direction in opinion polls. Their faith in their ‘leaders’ has dangerously overridden evidence and scientific reasoning, so much so that Australia’s Chief Scientist, Professor Ian Chubb, expressed grave concerns this morning on ABC radio about not just people’s disregard for the scientific facts that support AGW, but the attacks on the scientific process and the scientists themselves, some of whom have received death threats. This is reminiscent of similar attacks and threats directed at those whose beliefs differ from those who have extreme religious beliefs. Other views and beliefs are simply not tolerated by those whose ‘faith’ has revealed the ‘truth’ unto them. This is a serious problem for religion, and just as serious for politics. What we are seeing in faith-based politics is frightening, as it promises to bring about the persecution of those with contrary political views, as has occurred for centuries of those with contrary religious views. We see this with The Tea Party in the US, and are beginning to see it here with Cory Bernardi’s movement. We see it in the manipulative disingenuous behaviour of Tony Abbott and his acolytes. Truth is unimportant, deceptive slogans that create ‘faith’ among their followers are all that counts. Tell a lie often enough and the people will believe. We should be very alarmed.

lyn

26/09/2011Hi Debbie P Thankyou, I think you are pretty special too. Enjoy, there is some good stuff there today, thankyou to our bloggers. Cheers:):):)::)

TalkTurkey

26/09/2011I haven't read this yet FS, just looked at the pitch'z, but I'm glad the Sword sings again in the Land of the World's Best Treasurer. (Earlier there was a Timeout Error message for several hours, by which time, down in beautiful Unanderra a bit south of Wollongong, I was going into withdrawals. I suspect I'm not an orphan in this, I'm sure lots of us are Sword junkies.)

NormanK

26/09/2011Perhaps this story goes some way towards explaining Tony Abbott's dark demeanour last Wednesday and Thursday. [b]Liberals face off over IR surprise in Tony Abbott's office over Industrail Relations contracts[/b] by Simon Benson [quote]A FIERY showdown is believed to have erupted in Tony Abbott's office as senior frontbenchers demanded an explanation for his promise not to re-introduce individual workplace contracts. It is believed Julie Bishop and Joe Hockey ordered Mr Abbott's staff to leave before confronting him over the confused industrial relations policy last Wednesday. It came after Mr Abbott ruled out the return of individual workplace contracts as part of any IR law reform in an interview the previous night. "They both got stuck right into him," a senior Liberal source said.[/quote] http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/liberals-face-off-over-ir-surprise-in-tony-abbotts-office-over-industrail-relations-contracts/story-e6freuy9-1226146179913 More on the story of the NBN approaching Mt Isa - the task Tony Abbott suggested was "the sort of thing we could get cracking on straight away." Still no real criticism of Abbott's ignorance or duplicity. [b]Nearly ready for the NBN[/b] by Channelle Szmolnik [quote]MOUNT Isa residents may have access to the National Broadband Network (NBN) sooner than expected. Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy Senator Stephen Conroy said Mount Isa was within months of NBN completion. "The fibre-optic backbone link between Darwin and Toowoomba is within months of completion, having already had 3685 kilometres of fibre-optic cable deployed on this link alone," Senator Conroy said. "This means rapid improvements in retail broadband services and better value broadband plans for customers." These statements come after Leader of the Opposition, Tony Abbott, said Mount Isa should have access to fibre optic cable "as soon as possible". "It would significantly improve broadband and mobile phone coverage in the region- it's the sort of thing we could get cracking on straight away."[/quote] http://www.northweststar.com.au/news/local/news/general/nearly-ready-for-the-nbn/2303000.aspx

Trevor

26/09/2011Thanks for the post AA. The topic coincides with something I have been mulling the past week. That is, how disingenuous it is for the right to refer to themselves as conservatives. The term is generally understood to describe one who would take a more cautious, safe approach to affairs rather than striving for a more ambitious outcome that has higher risk attached. By any measure, to be consistent with this belief, a conservative should embrace taking action on climate change. The risks of a business as usual approach should be anathema to a true conservative. That it is not, means we are left with more anti change than conservative values. The faith component really is, "well it has been working for the past 100 years so we should not change anything. And I don't accept any evidence to the contrary". I don't think this is the whole story though. Those at the senior levels of industry and the political movement are motivated more by short term gain. Their faith revolves around the rewards now, worry about problems later philosophy. The greater the immediate reward, the greater the motivation to cast aside or crush any dissent. So conservative, as a descriptor for those at the head of the movement is completely misleading. However "conservative" sounds like a safe and steady path for those that don't want change and a party preaching "no change" is attractive, even if their motivation is completely different. I recall being taught cognitive dissonance theory as part of a unit on organisational behavior and thinking this was a curious trait but intelligent people would not succumb. I may have been suffering cognitive dissonance myself by believing this. The current state of denial by large sections of conservatives and refusal to educate themselves on the facts and published research, even when it is readily at hand is astounding. It is probably best described as group dissonance. While it is probably better left to another thread. This same train of thought has led me to understand that corporate incentives (bonus's etc) which reward short term profit are largely blame for the current state of the global economy. IE executives/politicians could reap massive rewards for generating a profit/result, even if it came with a risk that would be present for for many years to come. Of course if the risk materialised one, two or more years later it was too late, the bonus's were retained and blame was spread. Anyway I am off thread now so will stop.

Feral Skeleton

26/09/2011I've deleted all references to the masked man. :)

Feral Skeleton

26/09/2011Trevor, Thank you for your thoughtful comments on MY blog. ;-) It's interesting the point you make about Cognitive Dissonance. It seems to me to be a factor in Faith itself, that is, if you tried to marry reality with what is told to you by a person of Faith from a pulpit, you'd have cause to question what they were on, or on about, so often do the two things not fit together coherantly. This is why I believe that Tony Abbott is so good at hoodwinking the electorate(aided and abetted by a complicit media in the main), because he was taught how to deliver convincing Sermons in the Seminary. Put that together with his Journalism training and you get someone expert at getting people to suspend disbelief and go along with him, often against their best interests.

Gravel

26/09/2011Feral Skeleton You're back on form with a vengence. Well done. I made the connection between the conservative and religion a while ago, glad to see I'm not the only one. The name of the new religion is 'No No No Tax Tax Tax' religion. Oh with a lot of ignorance is bliss thrown in for free.

Feral Skeleton

26/09/2011NormanK, Yes, I read that story by Simon Benson this morning, and it just pointed up the erratic and populist nature of Tony Abbott. He knows what the electorate didn't like about WorkChoices and the fact that the Union movement have hard evidence to show exactly what Individual Contracts stripped away from them. I don't think bleating from the likes of Peter Reith about 'Reregulation of the Labour Market' will cut any ice with the electorate either, as if it's a malodorous part of the Fair Work changes. I think it's exactly what the workforce wanted to occur again. The problem with Peter Reith is that he has his head so far up H.R.Nicholls' fundament he is unable to discern any longer what is fair for the 'Unit of Production', ie, the workers/electors. Tony Abbott was at least smart enough to realise that when he made his call in the Chris Uhlmann interview. The others, like Julie Bishop, think that they have got the next election in the bag and so can start bringing Workchoices back out from behind the curtains where they had stuffed it after 2007. Well, Abbott knows that there is one thing that the electorate believes is 'Toxic'. The worst aspects of WorkChoices, like Individual Contracts. Like I said before, being on a contract means your livelihood can be terminated along with the contract, at a moment's notice and without a bye or leave.

Feral Skeleton

26/09/2011Gravel, Ta. :) Or, maybe it's 'The New Delusion Religion'.

Feral Skeleton

26/09/2011NormanK, As for the Mt Isa NBN connection to Tony Abbott( ;-) ) I hope Senator Conroy makes a point of going to the Switch ON there and ridicules TA's past ridiculous assertions, and makes sure the local paper prints it on the front page.

paul walter

26/09/2011Abbott headed for the hills in panic when he thought he'd duffed his girlfriend at uni, yet is against the morning-after pill? What a contemptible wingnut he is! allis submission and brutality,in his world.

NormanK

26/09/2011Feral Skeleton I should have said thanks for another great article. Plenty of food for thought but the subject is well outside my comfort zone for comment. On the IR front, did you see this and if so what do you make of it? [b]Australian Business can achieve productivity and flexibility[/b] Press Release by Michael Cosgrove, Director of Rivercity Consulting [quote]With the increase in employer associations calling for changes to the Fair Work Act, and [b]a commitment by Tony Abbott to reinstating individual contracts[/b], Rivercity Consulting advocates that employers need to learn how to use the Act as effectively as the trade union movement, not relying on employer associations to run political campaigns. With the increasing numbers of agreements being negotiated with unions that have resulted in wage increases being awarded with little or no productivity offsets, Michael Cosgrove, Director of Rivercity Consulting has said it is now necessary more than ever that employers learn to use the legislation to their advantage.[/quote] http://www.seekingmedia.com.au/news.php?newsid=2235&g=1 It seems like a strange mix of a back-handed endorsement of the [i]Fair Work Act[/i], a warning not to go back to [i]WorkChoices[/i] and a plug for Cosgrove's company. Why the assertion about Abbott's position on individual contracts is so out of date is anyone's guess. Or has Abbott reacted to 'changed circumstances' (i.e. had his ear bent by Hockey and Bishop) and shifted his position yet again?

Trevor

26/09/2011Apologies FS if I did not get the attribution right. When I first read the post it still had the scary photo at the bottom. I thought a real scoop may have been on the way if it was Cory or Tony on a night out. Perhaps I missed the author in my confusion.

Michael

26/09/2011In the light of the reawakening IR 'debate', there's no-one I'm aware of who talks as much sense and so regularly gets to the core of real world impact economic issues as Ross Gittins. http://www.smh.com.au/business/memo-bosses-happier-staff-work-better-20110925-1krls.html This is a 'memo' that should be required reading for all Coalition parliamentarians, and the Federal Government members too (lest they forget!)

2353

26/09/2011Well written FS. Religion has a lot to answer for in the form of wars, social history and culture over the past couple of thousand years. I've often been amused when watching history programs when the leaders of both warring sides have claimed that "God is on their side". That women (and married men) are still not equal to unmarried men in the Catholic Church in 2011 is beyond belief. I really have a problem with the current lot of bible bashers that see nothing wrong with preaching thrift while taking 10% off their flocks income, mixed with a bit of egotism, empire building and at times a little adultery (which is against one of the 10 Commandments from memory). You'd wonder how otherwise intelligent people would fall for it! NormanK's link above to the Daily Tele is instructive as well. Not for the story so much as that fact the Daily Telegraph is printing something that seems on the face of it to be detrimental to the political interests of the LNP and prior to other more "common" sources of LNP rumblings suggesting dissension in the ranks.

Patricia WA

26/09/2011NormanK - I wonder why there are so few comments on that Daily Telegraph story? Do you think Benson or his editor are sitting on backlog of comments awaiting moderation? I can't believe it hasn't attracted more attention than one comment. Good post FS. What is it about religious politicians or political religionists? In that mix we generally get the worst of both strains. So rarely do we get a Desmond Tutu or a William Wilberforce.

mikey

26/09/2011These types of articles are old news. We know there is a confluence of interests that are successfully undermining governments and the societies that rely on them. What we need to read about is how to fight back. Where is the Left? Why are the progressives inside the Liberal party unable to influence policy when Abbott only got the job by one vote (and one absent?) How do we unravel the media's grip on the government's balls? On the other hand, we don't want these ideas in cyberspace in case the radical right figures out how to defuse them. But seriously, their tactics are working a charm. How do we fight back? What ever happened to the massive ant-globalisation protests in 1999/2000, in Seattle, Melbourne etc? Where did that resistance go? The Left is dead and the Centre is compromised, the Right dominates everywhere as the world crumbles...

mikey

26/09/2011As for religion, it's just a virus that makes people stupid. Highly contagious and seems to be spreading.

lyn

26/09/2011Hi Paul Walter Welcome to the Political Sword, thankyou for your comment. Cheers::)):):)

lyn

26/09/2011Hi again Paul Sorry I see you have commented before, never mind thankyou for your comment today. I couldn't agree with you more [quote]What a contemptible wingnut he is[/quote]! Cheers:):):):):)

Marks

26/09/2011I am not sure it is all on the right. I suspect that today's ALP has a lot more in common with the DLP of the fifties as a result of the influence of religion. Just mention euthanasia, gay marriage or stopping the clean feed, and see what reception you get at ALPsville.

Feral Skeleton

26/09/2011paul walter, Tony Abbott is a walking contradiction. He will hope like hell :) that a woman he has pre-marital sex with but isn't keen on marrying, is not pregnant with his child. I guess we need to ask, did he coerce the woman into having sex with him without protection? Yet, when it comes to his own daughters, he is following the Christian Patriarchy ethos and mouthing one of their core tenets: "A woman's virginity is the greatest gift she can give to her husband." Yup, that's where that line came from.

Feral Skeleton

26/09/2011NormanK, Apropos: [quote]and a commitment by Tony Abbott to reinstating individual contracts[/quote], let's just say that what he said to Chris Uhlmann wasn't written down on paper and signed by him. As Tony Abbott is the master of the convenient excuse, let me just say that he will say or do anything to get to be Prime Minister, and I'm sure telling a porky pie about his true IR intentions would be neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things. Don't forget, the facts are irrelevant in Post Truth Politics, especially, as Ad Astra often points out, to a devout Catholic who can expunge his guilt with a quick trip to George Pell's confessional.

Feral Skeleton

26/09/2011mikey, I like your spunk! Don't despair though, as that is exactly the position that the Right are attempting to put Progressive Social Democracy supporters in. They'd love us to be dispirited and demoralised. However, it's better to take the long view and keep fighting with whatever tools are at our disposal. Even if it is something as simple as bringing a persuasive argument to a work conversation which makes people think instead of just swallowing the RW media's views, hook, line & sinker. I always think of the Kate Bush/Peter Gabriel song 'Don't Give Up' and the old saying, 'It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees', when defeatist thoughts invade my brain. Might is not right, and we are the butterflies flapping our collective wings against the hurricane the Conservative Christian Capitalists are attempting to unleash against us. How we fight back is something I have been giving thought to myself lately. At the moment I can only place my faith in those groups within Australia who are having a go, and you probably know who they are already. I also take comfort from America. Even though it is the home of all that is wrong with Conservative politics, it is also the home of all that is new and changing for the better on the Progressive side of politics. Such as Al Gore's Cable TV network, CurrenTV, which is building a formidable line-up of Progressive political commentators, such as Keith Olbermann, The Young Turks, and others such as Thom Hartmann and Rachel Maddow. As I have said before, if only Australia's Progressive forces could have a champion, as wealthy as a George Soros or Al Gore, who could start up a new multimedia outlet for us here to get our views out into the wider community. That's the sort of thing we really need, as old-fashioned protesting is basically ignored these days, and strikes are seen as an inconvenience to the people affected by them and elicit very little sympathy from the general public. So, yes, we do need to develop some more sophisticated modalities for dealing with our problems, as we constantly identify them. The 'old news' as you call it. :)

Ad astra reply

26/09/2011paul walter, mikey, Marks Welcome to you all to [i]The Political Sword[/i]. Do come again.

Feral Skeleton

26/09/2011Marks, There is an element of truth to what you say about today's ALP. The 'DLP element' is there in the form of the Shoppies Union, run by Bill Ludwig and Joe De Bruyn, both staunch Catholics, plus others in parliament such as Don Farrell. However, I would caution against tarring the ALP completely with the DLP brush. You just have to look at the DLP Senator who has been elected to federal parliament from Victoria, and see how he thinks about the issues, to see that the ALP and the DLP are still very different. The ALP is also still open to making the sort of changes concerning the issues you bring up, and such as changing passports to reflect transgender citizens, than the DLP, or the Coalition under Tony Abbott, ever will be capable of. Anyway, Tony Abbott's Liberal Party has more in common with the DLP than the ALP. He is an avowed Bob Santamaria acolyte.

Acerbic Conehead 2

26/09/2011FS, A great overview of how some nefarious people are using religion for their own warped ends. Thank you. I believe that good, decent worldviews, for example humanistic atheisms and theisms, can do a power of good but, when their institutions are infiltrated by drongos, this only serves to give good movements a bad name. Just look at what Stalin did for atheism or Torquemada’s contribution to Christianity! However, I think a number of bad eggs or rotten apples don’t negate all the good things that decent atheists and theists are contributing. [quote]I've deleted all references to the masked man.[/quote] You’ve probably realised that somehow your thread, and mine for this Friday, impregnated each other for reasons better known to the cyberspace gods. So, I need to warn you that the “masked man” will make a return then. Gird your daughters and lock up your loins...heh...heh...

Feral Skeleton

26/09/20112353, You know what irks me? The Prosperity Gospel. That these so-called religious types have found a way to turn Jesus' teachings about not being greedy, on their heads, and made it OK to accumulate ridiculous amounts of wealth and still convince yourself you are godly. Jesus would have been looking around for poor people to give his money away to.

Jaeger

26/09/2011I laughed when Abbott's own daughter described him as a "lame, gay, churchy loser". ;-)

Feral Skeleton

26/09/2011AcerbicC., As I have always said to my children, "Your father and I are small 'c' Christians. We try and live our lives doing all the good things Christians are supposed to do but without all that religion BS." :) AC, your mind is a wonderful thing, moving quickly towards becoming a national treasure. I can't wait for the masked man to return disporting his vinyl Budgie Smugglers. :)

Feral Skeleton

26/09/2011'For religious zealots, the world is made of words.' This was a statement made this week about another Christian Conservative politician in the US, Michelle Bachmann, but it could equally apply to our own aspirant for the highest job in the land, Tony Abbott. Also, just as much to any of the 2-bit Preachers getting around the Happy Clappy Mega Churches straddling this wide brown land. It's just words they are peddling, and concepts, not reality.

Casablanca

27/09/2011[i]There is one ray of hope: the growth of informed analysis online.[/i] 10 policy issues more important than immigration. Stephen Bartos http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2939970.html

2353

27/09/2011Hockey's attack on Wayne Swan revealed for the crap that it is. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/hockey-needs-more-than-google-for-his-economic-research-20110926-1ktgv.html It's also interesting to see the company Swan has found himself in.

lyn

27/09/2011 [b]TODAY’S LINKS[/b] [i]Pharyngudrones Tiptoeing Through The TULIPs, Grey Lining[/i] the primary impulse driving this corrupted derangement of new, new atheism was in itself nothing new, but in fact a resurgent neo-puritanism. What clearly stands out is not only their addiction to moral panic of all variety, especially the sexual, but also their home brand secularised, http://greylining.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/pharyngudrones-tiptoeing-through-the-tulips/ [i]How long is the world really going to put up with this shit?, Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] It is when you look at these numbers and then you fast forward 35 odd years that you begin to see why America is having a little debt trouble. Be interesting to see what other corporations in other developed countries were doing with their tax bills. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/09/25/how-long-is-the-world-really-going-to-put-up-with-this-shit/ [i]Elsewhere – Blogger does journalists work (or, why Paul Daley is a wanker), Andrew Elder, Politically Homeless[/i] Imagine if Gillard announced that she was considering but not committing to something costing billions of dollars and with massive potential impact to the nation, and how The Australian would jump all over it http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/ [i]Robert Manne and the Australian, Me fail? I fly![/i] These days I keep up with the Murdoch commentariat mainly at second hand, most regularly by way of the delightfully caustic Loon Pond, where someone identifying as lapsed Catholic ‘Dorothy Parker’ from Tamworth holds a satiric mirror up to their venomous name-calling, impassioneddefence of the rich and powerful, and self-serving illogic.I guess everyone knows what kind of beast the Australian is, http://shawjonathan.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/robert-manne-and-the-australian/? [i]Corporatocracy on the rise, Massivespray, Spray of the Day[/i] Every utterance they make in public is purely to denigrate the government…they are in no way advancing their own alternatives. They are even attempting their own Tea Party movement started by that winner Cory Bernardi…they certainly have the moronic figurehead part in place, he’s just sadly lacking in charisma. http://sprayoftheday.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/corporatocracy-on-the-rise/ [i]We are what we read, Miglo, Café Whispers[/i] I was puzzled, in particular, that nobody knew anything about Tony Abbott. Then it hit me: apart from his negativity, nothing about the man or his policies are published in the media http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/ [i]Mirabella set for Supreme Court stoush? | Crikey The Left Hack[/i] Crikey understands that savvy Sunday Age scribe Michael Bachelard is preparing to write a story on the saga this week, with editor Gay Alcorn keen to splash with the feud on her paper’s front page. http://darinsullivan.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/mirabella-set-for-supreme-court-stoush-crikey-liberal-party-politics/ [i]Andrew Bolts Followers, Brooksey, Curioristy and Challenge[/i] After many careful days of studying the column of the egocentric self proclaimed masiah Andrew Bolt I came to the folowing conclusion which I posted as a response to one particuarly nasty comment over Labors expenditure. http://wrb330.aussieblogs.com.au/ [i]Gillard to get media makeover from a whip-cracking spinner, Angela Priestly, The Power Index[/i] He could be the best man for what's likely to be a very difficult job. The Financial Times describes McTernan as among the "brightest and most effective" UK spinners who "have brought intellectual as well as political challenges, and their own insight, into government policymaking". http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/power-move/gillard-to-get-media-makeover-from-a-whip-cracking-spinner/20110925455 [i]WHY I SUPPORT GAY Marriage, Kristina Keneally, The Hoopla[/i] What I witnessed were people who suffered greatly because of the judgement of their family and community; friends who were more acquainted with loneliness than with romantic relationships; devout Catholics, some with a true call to vocation, grieving because their own church had no place for them. http://thehoopla.com.au/support-gay-marriage/ [i]Compromise and policy balance are shaping Gillard’s minority government, James English, On Line Opinion[/i] Abbott said that the petrol prices would go up. Petrol was granted an exemption. Abbott said that the steel industry would suffer. The steel industrywas granted an exemption. Abbott said that the cost of living would increase. Gillard announced an extensive compensation package for households .http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=12653 [i]The clubs & pubs: fear and loathing, Gary Sauer-Thompson, Public Opinion[/i] No doubt we will hear the right wing rhetoric of the nanny state government trying to tell us what we can and can't do (Andrew Wilkie is holding the country to ransom), and that is what is needed is more deregulation of the gambling industry so the free market http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2011/09/the-clubs-pubs.php#more [i]25 REASONS WHY GOING AFTER THE POKIES IS UNAUSTRALIAN., Mike Stuchbery[/i] The AFL and NRL are considering an advertising campaign to warn the government against making changes to the vibrant, vital Australian gambling industry, using such potent slogans as ‘Footy Tax’ http://mike-stuchbery.com/2011/09/26/25-reasons-why-going-after-the-pokies-is-unaustralian/ [i]If “he said, she said” journalism is irretrievably lame, what’s better?, J Rosen, Press Think[/i] Further along in my dialogue with NPR over its embrace of “he said, she said” reporting: two new items to report. Another /engagement with NPR’s ombudsman. And Voice of San Diego’s reporters handbook, which disallows he said, she said. http://pressthink.org/2011/09/if-he-said-she-said-journalism-is-irretrievably-lame-whats-better [i]Teh Climate Crazies are out again - who forgot to lock the gate-, Petering Time, North Coast Voices[/i] As this mob appears to include quite a few galahs from the Just Grounds online community who seem to firmly believe that a government minister wants to gas them all, I look forward to hearing that a lot of nonsense was spouted. http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com/2011/09/teh-climate-crazies-are-out-again-who.html [i]Essential Research: 56-44 to Coalition, William Bowe, The Poll Bludger[/i] 38 per cent agreed he was “performing the role of opposition leader well and is keeping the government accountable”, with 45 per cent t/aking the commonly heard view that he is “just opposing everything and is obstructing the work of the government http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2011/09/26/essential-research-56-44-to-coalition-3 [i]Geo-engineering: should we change the face of the planet to combat climate change?Graeme Pearman, The Conversation[/i] In the past few years, there has been growing interest in geo-engineering our climate. Geo-engineering means making sometimes planetary-scale physical or chemical changes to alter the amount of heat coming into, or getting out of our atmosphere. http://theconversation.edu.au/geo-engineering-should-we-change-the-face-of-the-planet-to-combat-climate-change-3483 [i]There's nothing unusual in News Ltd evolution, Mark day, News Com.[/i] The pot is calling the kettle black. Crikey applied the eggbeater to the yarn, spinning together all the negatives it could muster for its story, framing it as a "rehabilitation" move in the context of News under attack for the News of the World phone hacking, the Australian arm's attempts to distance itself from the British scandal, http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/theres-nothing-unusual-in-news-ltd-evolution/story-e6frg99o-1226146005550

Ad astra reply

27/09/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Feral Skeleton

27/09/20112353, Thank you for the link to the Hockey article by Eric Ellis. I left an appropriate comment. :D

Feral Skeleton

27/09/2011I do not agree with the premise of the 'grey lining' article in the links today. It is itself 'codswallop' about the 'new,new atheists' and their supposed, barely disguised 'New Puritanism' which their atheist beliefs apparently cloak. The author of the piece appears to be making a broad generalisation of the gamut across which the atheists in the Western World run, based upon his opinion of the degeneration of a few Atheist blog sites, and the behaviour of a couple of prominent atheist spokespeople. Well, as he sees them anyway. Fine sounding words do not a cogent argument make.

Patricia WA

27/09/2011Yes, 2353, the Hockey was really well done. Even more cheering were the comments! If only the PM's article on asylym seekers had been as well received.

jj

27/09/2011To link Abbott with Bachman is just absurd! It is like me linking Gillard with daffy duck (although there are some major comparisons!). Can you please outline to me: 1. Why a faith cannot inform your judgement on certain issues? 2. What Abbott has ever done or proposed to do that has anything to do with imposing Christianity on people? 3. How his beliefs and pursuit of these beliefs are any different to those of Kristina Keneally, Kevin Rudd or J.F.K. for goodness sake?

Ad astra reply

27/09/2011Folks Have you heard the carry-on about Kevin Rudd’s slip of the tongue when he said he was a ‘Happy Little Vegemite Prime Minister’, immediately corrected, but seized on by Tony Abbott and the mindlessly childish media. Come to think of it, that’s an unwarranted insult to children, who arguably would exhibit more appropriate behaviour. Christian Kerr was audibly salivating on ABC radio when he delighted in predicting that the media would make a meal of this slip up, especially in the light of today’s [i]Newspoll[/i]. It shows how microscopic media minds have become, yet unaware of how ridiculous this appears to thinking people. They must rely on their audience being as mindless as they are.

Casablanca

27/09/2011Frank Brennan was never a supporter of the Malaysia proposal but is now implacably opposed and very critical of Gillard. 'If [Gillard] agreed to Abbott's amendment, she could effect a bipartisan return to a moral bottom line higher than that set by Ruddock in 2001.' Julia Gillard and Labor's moral decline. Frank Brennan September 26, 2011. Gillard 'asked her advisers to design a system not for offshore processing but for offshore dumping. Instead of having refugees processed and resettled from an offshore location, she wants asylum seekers to be warehoused, placed on a queue so long that they will never have a reasonable chance of resettlement.' http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=28404 In July, prior to the High Court decision Brennan wrote 'The Malaysian solution is unprincipled, but it might just work — stopping the boats.' http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=27391 High Court grounds Malaysia Solution. Frank Brennan August 31, 2011 'Unless there were to be a bipartisan agreement in the Parliament or a government deal with the Greens, asylum seekers arriving by boat now need to be processed fairly, promptly, on our terms and on our turf. And that’s the way it should have been all along.' http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=27962

Feral Skeleton

27/09/2011jj, I didn't directly link Tony Abbott with Michelle Bachmann. I merely pointed out a lot of the characteristics of Christian Conservative politicians. They are both avowed Christian Conservative politicians. However, if you want to make straw man arguments like that, fine, but that little black canard won't fly with me. It's specious. To answer your questions(not that you answer the questions we pose to you): 1. No one, and especially me, ever said that a faith cannot inform your judgements. However, if, as Prime Minister you are making judgements for the whole country and it's citizens, based upon a faith which you have, then that breaches the Separation of Church and State concept for mine and should not be allowed. Decisions should be evidence-based, not faith-based. 2. I never said Abbott wanted to impose Christianity on people. I said he wants to impose his Christian tenets on the nation via faith-based policies, just like he did when he was a Minister in Howard's government. Don't forget, who, along with fellow staunch Catholic, Kevin Andrews, was the prime mover in Howard's government in the effort to overturn the ACT and Northern Territory's ability to legislate for Euthenasia. Now, you may not like Euthenasia, I'm agnostic on it, but the point is that those men based their decisions on faith-based teachings and thinking. Also, Abbott was instrumental in setting up anti-abortion 'Counselling' services run by the Churches when he was Health Minister. They were barely disguised religious proselytisers and advocates for the Church's anti-abortion message. He guaranteed federal funding for them. That's just two examples. I'm sure as Prime Minister there would be plenty more. 3. Tony Abbott's beliefs are completely at the other end of the spectrum to Kevin Rudd and Kristina Kenneally, who just today advocated for gay marriage, something Tony Abbott finds abhorrent. JFK lived back in the 1960s. Society was different then and so your inclusion of him is irrelevant.

Trevor

27/09/2011FS To add to you argument about mixing church and state, didn't a Catholic Archbishop claim that any federal MP who supported the NT euthanasia bill could not then take holy communion? Now my memory is a little rusty here, it may have even been the RU486 debate. I am sure however that there were veiled threats to catholic MP's to toe the church line or they would not be welcome. Perhaps your memory is better than mine, I am sure a few google's would find references.

Feral Skeleton

27/09/2011Trevor, Your memory serves you well. Suffice to say, if Abbott were PM he would demand that all his MPs toed a similar line, Catholic or not, simply because he is a Catholic. You wouldn't see it out in the open because he doesn't operate that way but behind closed Coalition doors he would prevail as strongly as any Conservative Catholic Pope of centuries past.

jj

27/09/2011In response: May i ask TT on what basis do you make your decisions? If it is not some sort of a belief system or faith than how do you come to the decisions you do? Just because you have religious beliefs and have decided that your views fit inline with those of a particular religion does not mean you have lost all rationality. In relation to the three questions: 1. Right, evidence based... not faith based... So can you please point out the policies Abbott has supported or opposed, that he has stated he has based his decision on blind faith? As for you claim that to base a public policy decision on faith necessarily means a breach of the principle of church and state, that is complete nonsense. The whole concept of this separation is based on the idea that organised religion should be prevented from wielding legislative power. Just because Abbott has beliefs which inform his judgements does not in any way mean he is imposing those beliefs. And anyway, what is the difference between him making decisions informed by religion or by the political principles of his party? There are no problems with informed opinions, and i challenge you to find a policy that Abbott has backed with his sole explanation being 'because the bible said so'. 2. In highly morally and ethically vexed debates arent we all subjected to our own guiding principles or faith? For example in the case of euthanasia whether it is religion or some other sort of beliefs system that guides your views, does it really matter other than it (your position) being a reasonably logical one. 3. KK is not a particularly big fan of abortions (i believe she voted against the introduction of some sort of pregnancy inducing pill), and she has stated publicly many times that her religion definitely informs her views. But for you TT i think the problem is not necessarily about religion but rather which side of the political divide you sit. Your absolute fervent support of the Labor Party could be considered a kind of religion... what ever the Labor Party says you seem to say is right. Is that necessarily wrong? No. But it is a damn sight worse than those religious people you criticize who at least take into account their own and other factors when making their decisions on politically divisive matters.

Feral Skeleton

27/09/2011Ad Astra, Christian named his second child, Rupert. Need I say any more?

Jason

27/09/2011jj, " May i ask TT on what basis do you make your decisions?" I sure TT would be pleased to know you meant Trevor!

CJM

27/09/2011The essence of Abbott is that he has no, or wish to know, ability to distinguish between social piety and sincere faith. This he also applies to his view overall.

Patricia WA

27/09/2011Ad Astra, re KK I wonder if News Ltd journos read their own publications thoroughly. How many of them read Barry Cohen's contribution yesterday http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/the-experts-have-got-it-wrong-gillard-was-not-disloyal-to-rudd/story-e6frgd0x-1226146014954 in which he said, about Rudd's demise and Julia Gillard's part in it [quote]Bit by bit he estranged almost the entire caucus. They became fed up with his insufferable behaviour. In a column in July last year I recounted how shocked I was, when dining with three senior Labor MPs, to learn how much he was loathed. Another told me: "He was an out-of-control dictator. Everywhere he went there was death and destruction." Rudd committed political suicide. Throughout all this Gillard remained his loyal deputy. Of the many MPs and senators I spoke to not one suggested she had any part in a conspiracy to dethrone Rudd. He had survived for one reason: polls showed he would romp home at the next election. All that changed after a series of mishaps including the pink batts fiasco, the mining tax and, after Copenhagen, his loss of interest in climate change. Overnight Labor's support collapsed and the reason for keeping Rudd disappeared. His replacement was obvious. The faction leaders went to his deputy and told her to run. When she refused, declaring loyalty to Rudd, she was told, "If you don't run we'll find someone who will." The rest is history. There may be a number of reasons to vote against Gillard, but a conspiracy involving her in the "assassination" of Rudd and the usurping of the role of caucus is not among them. [/quote]

Ad astra reply

27/09/2011Patricia WA I agree with Barry Cohen’s assessment of Julia Gillard’s role in Kevin Rudd’s removal. The accusations of backstabbing and assassination have always been false, but of course they make great copy and easy-off-the-tongue catch cries for her political opponents and in the media. And they will go on despite what Cohen asserts. Which is sad, because it shows yet again that truth is irrelevant to many/most political commentators. Only the shrill story counts, along with the journalist’s opinion, uninformed as it usually is.

Trevor

27/09/2011JJ If, as Jason pointed out your question was directed at me I will have a crack at it. Decision and choices we make do fall into different categories. The way I approach a decision in my professional capacity is different to the way I may offer advice to my children. Of course those "life" or value based decisions are informed by my experiences and values that I have picked up along the way. I would like to think I am a tolerant person and have empathy for others when I make these decisions/choices. For social issues such as abortion, euthanasia or even climate change I will look at research and then try and form my conclusions around evidence. This brings me to the next category though. Decisions I make in my professional capacity are of course informed by my training and experience, if I need to I will do research. Not much room for faith here without evidence. That is the distinction, for TA and politicians, this is their job. Decisions which will affect the lives of many others who may not share their belief system should not be based on dogma. Of course we all have our own values and we make judgments using these values but a professional politician must make decisions based on evidence. Not use their position as a means to impose their values on others. We are all free to make our own choices that will affect our own lives and wear the consequences if they are ill informed. When you are making choices that will affect a nation you need to be a bit more careful. That's it.

Ad astra reply

27/09/2011CJM If you haven’t been here before, welcome to [i]The Political Sword[/i] family. Do come again. I note your shrewd assessment of Tony Abbott. FS Among the many fawning Murdoch sycophants, Christian Kerr has no equal.

Jason

27/09/2011Trevor, I thought it must be you "jj" was refering to, as the only thing "TT" has posted was this one yesterday! "September 26. 2011 01:14 PM I haven't read this yet FS, just looked at the pitch'z, but I'm glad the Sword sings again in the Land of the World's Best Treasurer. (Earlier there was a Timeout Error message for several hours, by which time, down in beautiful Unanderra a bit south of Wollongong, I was going into withdrawals. I suspect I'm not an orphan in this, I'm sure lots of us are Sword junkies.) TalkTurkey

jj

27/09/2011sorry i meant FS

Trevor

27/09/2011Further to my post above JJ. As an example. I am OK to "out" myself here as one of those that make up the heterosexual majority. I will also confess that the thought of being "intimate" with another male, well lets not go there coz I am just uncomfortable with the concept. However, I do not let this colour my view of the minority who are homosexual. I do not believe they should suffer any discrimination because of their sexual orientation. It is wrong for politicians to base policy decisions on prejudice. All the evidence I am aware of indicates there would be no detriment to our society if Gays were given equal rights.

Ad astra reply

27/09/2011FS, Trevor jj has taken us into the realm of ‘belief’ and ‘faith’ without clearly distinguishing between them. If one can take Wikipedia as an authority, this is what it has to say: Wikipedia defines 'belief' as follows: [b]Belief[/b] is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true. The terms belief and knowledge are used differently in philosophy. Epistemology is the philosophical study of knowledge and belief. The primary problem in epistemology is to understand exactly what is needed in order for us to have true knowledge. In a notion derived from Plato's dialogue Theaetetus, philosophy has traditionally defined knowledge as "justified true belief". The relationship between belief and knowledge is that a belief is knowledge if the belief is true, and if the believer has a justification (reasonable and necessarily plausible assertions/evidence/guidance) for believing it is true. A false belief is not considered to be knowledge, even if it is sincere. A sincere believer in the flat earth theory does not know that the Earth is flat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief Wikipedia defines 'faith' as follows: [b]Faith[/b] is trust, hope and belief in the goodness, trustworthiness or reliability of a person, concept or entity. It can also refer to beliefs that are not based on proof (e.g. faith that a child will grow up to be a good person). Religious faith is a belief in a transcendent reality, a religious teacher, a set of teachings or a Supreme Being. Generally speaking, it is offered as a means by which the truth of the proposition, "things will turn out well in the end," can be enjoyed in the present and secured in the future. Religious faith appeals to transcendent reality, or that reality which is beyond the range of normal physical experience (e.g. the future). Transcendent reality, in this view, constitutes a realm which is off limits to material measurement and other rigors of scientific inquiry such as falsifiability and reproducibility. Philosophical reflection on the nature of theistic and religious faith has produced different accounts or models of its nature. The concept of faith is a broad one: at its most general ‘faith’ means much the same as ‘trust’. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith These definitions imply that we ought not to use ‘belief’ and ‘faith’ interchangeably. When I use ‘faith’, I do so in the sense defined by Wikipedia. In politics we are too often expected to accept a proposition ‘in faith’. For example, much of the contrary argument that questions the reality of AGW seems to require faith in the assertions of skeptics and deniers, [i]sans[/i] supporting evidence. This is like religious faith that lacks supporting evidence. Thus blind political ‘faith’ is no different in essence from blind religious faith. This understanding was the core of my first comment on this piece.

jj

27/09/2011Trevor, To say that just because you take a view partially informed by religion on an issue means that you are imposing that view on others is just absurd, because: 1. there is no religious party in Australia, and both the major parties adamantly adhere to the principle of reason based judgement. 2. what you say makes little sense, as if we are all to take your extreme view this would mean that any decisions made by the parliament would be viewed as an imposition on society, as all members of parliament hold views based on different values and beliefs. 3. what you say only makes sense if you can prove that the politicians in question pursue policy agendas: a) blindly, with total disregard to all factors other than religion. b) with the aim of imposing their religious beliefs on others. And i would say you cannot prove either. P.S. can you please explain how a decision can be based wholly on research, as if your interpretation is some empirical totally objective art. Whether you research a lot or just a bit, you are deciding what to read, and therefore your decision may be just as ill informed as another person basing their point of view on the religious beliefs, political beliefs etc etc.

Feral Skeleton

27/09/2011What an absolutely fantastic conversation we are having on this topic! And who said that the two things you should never discuss are Religion and Politics? We're discussing Religion in politics and it has thus far been very elucidating indeed. :)

Feral Skeleton

27/09/2011Actually, what spurred me to investigate this topic was a quote I read from one of the 20th century's greatest philosophers, John Lennon. He said, "God didn't make Man, men created gods."

2353

27/09/2011I would have thought the answer to jj's question was "morals and ethics". As a member of a society (be it the Apex Club, local Football Club, RSL, Bikie Gang or the Country you live in), there are norms that define membership. More often than not, the norms involve not intentionally injuring either physically or financially other members of the society, not lying or cheating on other members of the society and obeying the rules, laws and customs of the society. While some may call these "Christian" values, similar values are preached (pun intended) in other texts as varied as the Koran and 1984 (by George Orwell). Politicians who base their actions on their particular brand of religion - be it Catholicism, Hillsong, Buddhism or a religion based on the Koran just to mention a few have the cart before the horse in that they allow their particular prejudices to overrule what their particular society believes is a norm. Examples where religion interferes with the morals and ethics of a society include the Crusades, the Irish "troubles", the 9/11 attacks in the USA and the majority of the current instability in the middle east. In some Australian examples, Abbott banning RU486 due to his personal beliefs and Gillard not allowing a vote on same sex marriage both appeal to the religious conservative - not society as a whole. According the whole society "suffers" to appease a particular group.

Feral Skeleton

27/09/2011jj, My fervent support of the Labor Party, and only because they are doing good work, may seem to you like it exemplifies a religious fervour which emanates from me, however, that is a completely different thing altogether from politicians who combine their avowed religiosity with their political lives, as well as those amongst them who have brought the hallmarks of religion to political persuasion. Also, that, like religion, they are prepared to advocate strongly against scientific fact based upon no more than the belief in the power of their argument, and especially when it comes to Anthropogenic Global Warming, an argument which is all faith, that it is not occurring, and no reason beyond assertion and a few dodged up 'facts', that it is. Stoked to the gunnells with sermonising from the bully pulpit of politics and in any arena they can occupy in order to make their message heard above the facts of the matter. Sounds a lot like Holy Rollin' religious practices to me.

Trevor

27/09/2011"can you please explain how a decision can be based wholly on research, as if your interpretation is some empirical totally objective art. Whether you research a lot or just a bit, you are deciding what to read, and therefore your decision may be just as ill informed as another person basing their point of view on the religious beliefs, political beliefs etc etc." If I make a decision at work (this is the pollies job)I need to be able to back up that decision. Even if it is wrong I need to be able to defend the process and information I used. Cherry picking quotes from a ghost written story about someone who may or may not have lived 2000 years ago will not stack up. But as I said in my earlier post. Decisions I make in my private life are different. These decisions mostly only affect myself and my family.

jj

27/09/2011FS, You have gone off on a whole other tangent there. I have not heard any religious explanations for those people who do not believe in anthropogenic global warming. Si i dont know why you brought it up. Everyone has their own dogmatic ideological beliefs e.g. the Labor Party and its belief in the need for expanding trade unionism and the Liberal Party's belief that it should shrink. 2353, I am sorry but the whole 'cart before the horse' concept is also nonsensical. Just think about all decisions you make for a moment. Now, are they shaped by the context of your own life; all the things you have been taught and you yourself have perceived over all those years? Well how is that any different to using some sort of a religion as a guide? Once again you seem to be getting fanaticism and religious beliefs mixed up. I dont believe that religion for people such as Tony Abbott, KK, Krudd, Costello or Blair is the be all and end all of their decision making process, but it offers them some sort of moral guidance, some parameters within which to nut-out an issue. Now for them it may be religion, for you it may be your beliefs in the Labor movement or in Liberalism, but there is a commonality: we all bring our own preconditions, our own biases to decision making. That is what makes us human. To say that religion interferes with our morals and ethics is just plain wrong. If you look at the basis of what we deem to be moral and immoral, ethical and unethical, it almost always finds its roots in the christian scriptures. Now i believe religious fanatics who do not take into account contextual differences can damage society, but i dont see people like Abbott as being one of those (Fred Nile is a different story). Also to claim that the Crusades is an example of where religion interfered with the morals and ethics of the time is just ridiculous. You cannot judge the past on the values of he present, and during the Medieval Period Christianity was central to how the whole of society worked. You could argue that the church aided in creating perverse moral standards, but to say that it interfered with some sort of societal standards that already existed is wrong. The moral and ethical obligations of Western Europe were almost totally based on the teachings of the church at the time, and i am sure that you are not suggesting there are any parallels to today.

TalkTurkey

27/09/2011Professor Skeleton, I think Religion is an unmitigated self-perpetuating disaster, the fruit of all evil, never mind money being the root. I have already made that clear I think with the pome below, I think I posted it once before, possibly just before Christmas but I'm not going looking, I'll just repost it here. I don't tar ALL 'religious' people with the same brush, it may be possible to be genuinely goodwillian AND Christian at the same time, in fact I think I know one old couple like that. But sight unseen, I'd trust the motives of a self-proclaimed atheist/agnostic, or especially a self-proclaimed Humanist, to be a genuine Goodwillian before I'd trust a self-procalimed religious person. Goodwill is the go. Not religion. What religion was the Good Samaritan? Answer, well he WASN'T a Jew! He was a Gentile, i.e. lowlife. Think Jesus was making a point maybe? Anyway for what it's worth, and with apologies to any genuinely tolerant 'religious' readers, here's my slap-in-the-face gauntlet-throw-down to those who claim the moral high ground over the rest of us. ’Tis the night before Christmas, and all round the Earth The “Christians” are fighting for all they are worth, And so are the Moslems, and so are the Jews, And so are the Buddhists, and so are Hindus. The works of the holy are everywhere seen: In Ireland there’s hatred ’twixt Orange and Green; While “Christians” bomb Afghans (with help from above), And Jews shower Arabs with napalm and love. Each other religion is always at odds With anyone worshipping different gods; They all reckon their god’s the one god that’s right, So for permanent peace, they eternally fight! Some folks say of Evil that Money’s the root But Religion’s its seed, and Hatred’s its fruit And as for that Evil, it’s religion’s own word! And the “Christians” claim Love’s what they spread! How absurd! [Please observe that I only use “parentheseses” Around those who claim to be followers of Jesus, For as he observed truly, as plain as can be, The worst of transgressions is Hypocrisy.] You can’t blame folks for ignorance, if they’ve had no teaching Of the brotherly love that was Jesus’ main preaching; But find me true Christians so gentle and meek That genuinely do turn their own other cheek . . ? . . O sure, Jesus’ teachings would be very good If anyone practised them – if anyone could! But here in the real world, where saints don’t exist, A slap on the cheek’s mostly met with a fist. The parable of the good neighbour was Jesus’s, (’Course, he wasn’t “Christian” in parentheseseses!) No mystery, only the same line as Labor! Don’t need no religion to be a good neighbour! I reckon God-bothering’s nought but inanity And worshippers’ actions amount to insanity: Us made in God’s image? What ultimate vanity! What Humans do need’s just respect for Humanity! So Moslem or Hindu or Buddhist or Jew, I do extend Humanist goodwill to you - But holier than me, mate? - Don’t come the raw prawn! I reckon religion’s obscener than porn!

Ad astra reply

27/09/2011TT What a talent you have for saying in rhyme What so many have learned with the passage of time.

Sir Ian Crisp

27/09/2011What do you think? A jolly good question. This piece came across as an antilogy, a bouillabaisse of anti-religious blathering, a distrust of democracy, frustrated socialism, and a continuation of the blame game. The author must have a turbid mind and a bad case of cognitive dissonance. The author’s research is sloppy to say the least. Is religion a fixed belief system based on faith? I think not. What God said in the Bible is now offensive to what the world believes and so religion has become malleable in order to maintain its appeal. The ordination of women and openly gay clergymen would seem to contradict the statement about religion being a fixed belief system based on faith. Has no one heard of Gene Robinson or the Rainbow Sash movement? John Shelby Spong seems to be in the vanguard of the movement to make Christianity appealing in the 20th Century. He advocates that religions should allow reason to form part of the belief system. While not exactly imploring Christians to adopt a Jacques Derrida approach to their religion Spong urges Christians to challenge traditional interpretations of the Bible. Spong has his followers. So much for a rigid and fixed belief system. The virago from the Central Coast then mentions ‘progressive government’ and we are meant to think of the ALP. What type of progressive government pushes its leader under a bus, hands the baton to his deputy and now contemplates returning the former leader to the top job? That’s not progressive that’s lunacy. The author goes on to lacerate others and we are left wondering just what unguent we can apply to our wounds. The answer is simple: vote ALP. I give the author an F. More research is needed before another article is submitted. Better still; why not visit the safe harbour of articles on the vile, wicked and anti-ALP meeja.

2353

27/09/2011jj, You missed the point. I really couldn't give a rats what any politician does with their time off - they can worship at whatever church they want for all I care. What I do care about is when politicians shove their religious views down the rest of the communities throat in the way Abbott did with his RU486 decision, the Crusades (which was an effort to convert the heathen in the Middle East to Christianity) or Gillard has done so far with refusing to put changes to the Marriage Act to the vote. I get angrier when the same politicians who claim to have "Christian" values play games that needlessly involve others such as boat people (what happened to the "Christian" ethic of looking after your fellow wo/man?), lying and cheating to gain an advantage such as Abbott's "Just say no" campaign and the faux outrage over Craig Thomson which died a really quick death when Mirabella's immoral if not illegal activities were disclosed. I'll finish tonight with an article from the Fairfax media that is broadly on the same issue - and discusses a way to reduce/eliminate people smuggling. http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/boats-votes--suffering-20110925-1krm9.html Goodnight all.

TalkTurkey

27/09/2011O ill-willian self-proclaimed Sir Knight, [i]en garde![/i] Sword-Master Ad astra comes flashing his Bard! [b]Fun With Trolls[/b]

TalkTurkey

27/09/2011Swordsfolks All, It says a lot about the [i]coherence[/i] of that silly little lower-caste troll of ours that s/he/it [i]misaddresses[/i] a dumb blast at me TT, which Jason thinks must have been directed at Trevor, and Trevor himself thinks perhaps it was too! :) all because it was such gobbledegook, and then that silly little troll of ours writes in to say [i]Oh sorry I meant [b]FS![/b][/i] :) ([i]roflmao![/i]) Where would we be without our trolls? Oh but yes Little Troll I do forgive you. (K) I have lots of fun trolling trolls! PS Does this (K) remind you of Sophie Puff-Adder Mirabella? ;-)

Feral Skeleton

27/09/2011Sir Ian Crisp, I do not, for a moment arrogate unto myself the ability to produce the perfect treatise every time I put pen to paper. If I did, then I would be God. And I'm an Atheist. I'd say you're looking in the wrong direction if you are grading for Divine Inspiration. Might I suggest you take your marking pen and go in search of Tony Abbott? He certainly believes he deserves an 'A'. I agree. An 'A' for Arseclown. Me? Well, I'm happy to take your 'F'. For my ability to be Friendly to all the people who comment on my posts, except when they become fractious. Also, to find it within myself to feel pity for those, like yourself, who have no more to contribute to debates than mocking the messenger and throwing in red herrings. Such as your little diatribe about John Shelby Spong, Jaques Derrida and Gene Robinson, 'Pop' Religion icons all, that, yes, I have heard of, actually, but which I am yet to work out their relevance to a debate about the influence of the Religious Right on latter-day Conservative politcs, and the methodologies they have borrowed from religious preaching, plus the suspension of belief in proveable facts, such as occurs in most religious faiths, in the electorate, as a result of their influence. Thus I would have expected you to have mentioned such figures as Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Strom Thurmond, Robert Grant,Paul Weyrich, Phyllis Schafly or Robert Reed. But what would I know? I only got an 'F' from you.

jane

27/09/2011[quote]What type of progressive government pushes its leader under a bus, hands the baton to his deputy and now contemplates returning the former leader to the top job?[/quote] Got any evidence for that Sir Ian? Apart from Liars Party talking points and Ltd News bullshit, that is? How about a little chat about that unlovely harridan Ms Mirabella and her treatment of Alzheimer's sufferers? Do you think she's got a few more stashed around the Pudgerosa? Should we check how much kero she buys each week? I'm sure Medusa's cousin Bronnie would be able to offer the benefit of her experience and advice on kerosene baths for the elderly. At least we know the Mirabella rumours weren't manufactured by the ALP. But as all the leadership speculation about Kevin Rudd originates either from Liars Party HQ or that other great bastion of truth, integrity and honesty, Ltd News, I think we can dismiss all of those rumours in their entirety. I can only speculate that there must be more than a grain of truth in the stories about La Mirabella; the Liars Party is working overtime to try to divert our attention from it. One wonders what other skeletons are going to fall out of the Liars Party cupboard? Sniff! Sniff! Is that another scandal I smell?

Patricia WA

28/09/2011Great rhyming there, TT! 'Jesus' with 'parentheses' is surely a first! 'Rhesus' only other possibility, which I guess you could drag in with monkey somewhere.

Patricia WA

28/09/2011Just popped over to CW before switching off and found that Miglo had linked to this version of John Lennon's "Imagine..." which is sort of relevant to your post, FS! http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=2064354724061

TalkTurkey

28/09/2011PatriciaWA One of TalkTurkey's wizard wheezes is Bending words whichever way pleases his Self as in that case of Jesus's - But it's [i]5[/i] syllables, [i]par-en-theez-'z-'z.[/i] I hardly ever - like, almost never! - find myself stumped if I really want to rhyme something, though there are some few words which have no rhyme, but as pointed out in The Sot-Weed Factor, it is even possible to rhyme the [i]unth[/i] in [i]month[/i], with [i]'unth'[/i], which in the utterance becomes a noun substantive, and a noun substantive is by definition a word! But don't try to tell me you can't/don't do exactly the same. And I think anybody could if they tried, and I'm surprised more people don't. But as I'm sure you saw, - Ad astra's writ a rhyme this time! Fancy! Rhyming 'time' with 'rhyme'! ;-) It's all down to the loveliness of English. (the rhymes with which are pretty single-ish!)

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011jane, Sir Ian Crisp wishes our minds were as addled as his, but we, and the Caucus will never forget the Dr Jekyll Prime Minister: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/no-one-assassinated-rudd-he-simply-topped-himself/story-e6frg6zo-1225897188218

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011When I read Sir Ian Crisp's contributions I reflect upon this old Chinese Proverb: 'A spoon does not know the taste of soup, Nor a learned fool the taste of wisdom.'

lyn

28/09/2011 [b]TODAY’S LINKS[/b] [i]Waiting for the Feature , Mr Denmore, The Failed Estate[/i] No-one is saying these problems will magically disappear with a pre-commitment system under which gamblers set a maximum loss before they hit the machines. But it is extremely hard to believe that such a system will not go some http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/2011/09/waiting-for-feature.html?spref=tw [i]Working Australia under Tony Abbott, Min, Café Whispers[/i] There has been some puzzlement as to why Australians, so wealthy and faring the GFC so well feel so hard done by..perhaps here is one reason. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/working-australia-under-tony-abbott/ [i] The Australian calls for a media enquiry, Dave Gaukroger, Pure Poison[/i] The Australian has been unrelenting in its criticism of ABC News 24, a competitor to Sky News which is part owned by News and whose board is chaired by Hartigan. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/09/28/the-australian-calls-for-a-media-enquiry/#more-12013 [i]Bolt & Co face shake up at MTR, Matthew Knott, Power Index[/i] MTR – whose roll call of announcers includes Steve Price, Andrew Bolt, Sam Newman and Steve Vizard – has been a ratings flop since its launch last April. The latest ratings survey shows its audience share dwindling at 1.9%, far below rival 3AW's 16.9%. http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/power-fail/bolt-co-face-shake-up-at-mtr/20110927458 [i] Issue Seven teaser- Ben Eltham ‘Clouds of Rhetoric — Climate Change and the State of Australian Journalism[/i],[i]Kill Our darlings[/i] The newspaper company owned by Rupert Murdoch dominates the Australian daily-newspaper market, representing about 70 per cent and occupying an absolute monopoly in two of Australia’s five largest cities. That readership easily translates into political power http://www.killyourdarlingsjournal.com/2011/09/issue-seven-teaser/ [i]Hush, Hush…Wixxy, Wixxy’s Blog[/i] In what is a real victory for freedom of speech, freedom of information, and a free press, there is a gag order on naming the 62 year old minister, and there is the threat of legal action against anybody who does. Nor can we discuss the alleged acts that took place between the Minister and his companion http://wixxy.wordpress.com/2011/09/27/hush-hush/ [i]Keep Spending, Mr Swan, Ben Eltham, New Matilda[/i] Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey may struggle to make their own election costings add up, but that hasn’t stopped them from repeatedly tearing at Labor’s fiscal credibility with their ominous prediction that Labor will never return a surplus while in government. http://newmatilda.com/2011/09/27/keep-spending-mr-swan [i]Hockey. The man who would be Treasurer... what can I say-, Peter Martin[/i] he needs help. The man who seems poised to hold Australia's economic future in his hands needs to try harder. At the least, he needs to read more extensively, more deeply and of a better quality of title. As does his researcher. http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/09/hockey-man-who-would-be-treasurer-what.html [i]digging up all we can dig , Gary – Sauer Thompson, Public Opinion[/i] The talking point is the old one: Labor is a wasteful government and a poor manager of the economy. It's a wonder Stutchbury didn't go on about the proposed price on carbon destroying the Australian economy at a time of global economic crisis. http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2011/09/digging-up-all.php#more [i]Asylum seeker policy: from stalemate to hope?, Robert Manne, The Drum[/i] In reality it is not the supposed impracticality of the Abbott plan but the hypocrisy of the Opposition's criticism of the Malaysian solution that is striking.During the period of the Howard government all members of his ministry embraced a policy of towing boats back to Indonesia, which, like Malaysia, is not a signatory to the UN Refugee Convention http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2946262.html [i]Debate ‘finished’? A Manne vs The Australian debacle, Matt Smith, Upstart[/i] Manne reiterated that Kelly had misrepresented his position. The Australian had been damning of Manne, claiming he was trying to repress debates he didn’t like, but Manne argued issues like climate change cannot be left to lay people http://www.upstart.net.au/2011/09/27/debate-finished-the-manne-vs-the-australian-debacle/ [i]Petty politics: The perils of parliamentary pairing, Craig Mark, The Conversation[/i] Despite the robust adversarial nature inherent in the Westminster system, the tradition of pairing reflects higher parliamentary ideals, that MPs aredemocratically elected to represent the shared interests of the Commonwealth, and are expected to act in a cordial and considerate manner towards each other to some extent. http://theconversation.edu.au/petty-politics-the-perils-of-parliamentary-pairing-3510 [i]Transparency please! Why the tax breaks for pokies clubs?, Ben Eltham, Crikey[/i] The pokies push by big sporting clubs is nothing if not brazen. Fairfax’s Phil Lutton has a fine piece of long-form reportage in the Brisbane Times today about the Brisbane Lions’ new social club, called LIONS@Springwood, located in Brisbane’s southern mortgage belt of Logan. http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/09/27/clubs-australia-campaignand-pokies-revenue/ [i]The AFL, the pokies, and viability,Robert Merkel, Larvatus Prodeo[/i] The AFL will survive just fine without pokies or sports betting. It’s a question of whether AFL players, coaches, and managers are merely very well-paidor extremely well-paid. But, on past history, clubs will continue to fight for their right to get revenue from socially destructive industries, such as tobacco and booze. http://larvatusprodeo.net/2011/09/27/the-afl-the-pokies-and-viability/ [i]Let us all rejoice, rejoice, David Horton, The Watermelon Blog[/i] humble as it may be, our anthem, though a poor thing, is our own, and I don’t want christians messing with it as part of their brain washing (sorry, schooling, don’t know what got into me there) program. A thin edge of the wedge if ever I saw one. http://davidhortonsblog.com/2011/09/27/let-us-all-rejoice-rejoice/

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011PatriciaWA, What a lovely video. When I was watching it it stopped half way through though and wouldn't go any further. :( However, and I don't wish to be churlish by saying so, but what that woman, Moira Kelly, did for those two boys she did herself, out of the goodness of her heart. I believe she would have done that sort of thing anyway, even if there were no religions, like the song Emanuel sang, says in it's lyrics. Just 'Imagine', if there was simply 'The Brotherhood of Man'. :)

Ad astra reply

28/09/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

jj

28/09/20112353, But you are missing my point, there is no evidence that Abbott did base his decision on the abortion matter totally on religious values! Would it have been ok to have made the decision without religion influencing his judgement? Because whether religion was or was not involved, Abbott would still be making a decision that would have implications for all; that is how our parliament works, stupid! You actually contradict yourself in the second para by stating that Abbott clearly has not used his christian values in determining his refugee policy, but has taken other considerations into account. Isnt that exactly what you are arguing for?! It seems that your dislike for religious values has more to do with the people that wield them. You seem like a very confused person! You still have not proved that Abbott or anyone withing the coalition has attempted to IMPOSE their religious views on others. I really do hate people who quote or state the 'facts' about the past... especially about the crusades. The major figure in crusading history today is a man by the name of Jonathan Riley-Smith, and he, along with most other Crusading historians have come to the view that the crusades were a mixture of things: 1. an attempt by the church to stop the infighting that was occurring in Western Europe during that period by channeling it to a fight that may actually bring some gain for the West. 2. an attempt by the Church to take control of the religious relics of the geographic area, and drive the 'moors', whose empire posed a huge threat to the Christians, out of the region. 3. an attempt by the church to gain greater control over the behavior of the citizens of western Europe by creating a penitential prize for following their orders (not only penitential but also material) How about you go and read up a little on the events before you start comparing what happened during the crusading era and today. I suggest: Riley-Smith, Madden, Jonathan Phillips, Kostic, Marcus Bull, and pay attention (but not too much) to the work of Runciman. You may find, then that the real reasons behind the crusades had nothing to do with the church's want for the conversion of the Moors of the East to Christianity.

Michael

28/09/2011JJ, regardless of what the 'real reasons' might have been for the Crusades, sounds like "the Church" was doing a whole lot of manipulating that resulted in a whole lot of dying. Best to keep the Church in any age out of matters of living in the day to day world, don't you think?

Michael

28/09/2011JJ Doesn't the Church have something to say about not being a 'hater'? Your phrase above "I really do hate people who quote or state..."

2353

28/09/2011Once more with feeling and back on topic. Morals and ethics are not solely a "Christian" thing. Most "holy" books have similar tenants for "living a good and worthy life". It is also easy to find examples where the morals and ethics of living a good and worthy life are pushed aside by political leaders for perceived gain. It is laughable that both sides in a war or conflict can make the claim that "God was on their side". My beef with Abbott (and a lot of the US religious/political conservatives) is that the wrap themselves in the Christian cross and national flag when it suits them and at the same time demonstrably don't give a rats about the poor, downtrodden or those needing help in their own societies. They can't have it both ways.

Patricia WA

28/09/2011Sadly, 2353, they do.

Patricia WA

28/09/2011jj seems to think the Crusaders were morally justified in their invasion of the Holy Lands because of political imperatives in Europe. I guess that's a reasonable view of history. For some.

Feral Skeleton

28/09/20112353, You'll probably find this amusing and support for your contentions: http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/152414/10_signs_god_is_furious_with_the_right/

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011jj, Why do you ignore the evidence when we present it to you? Tony Abbott, during his time as Health Minister introduced Faith-Based Counselling Services to the Women's Health area where previously there had been none. During the latter part of the Howard government he allowed them to set up shop to 'Counsel' women thinking about having a pregnancy termination. Guess what? An analysis of their work proved conclusively that they were advising women not to have an abortion, as opposed to dispassionately setting out all the alternatives on a level playing field. They were tilting it in the direction that their faith dictated. Now, you might find some fine point to base an argument against that fact which stares the objective observer in the face, and I can probably predict it will go along the lines, 'Tony Abbott was merely opening up the area to groups who had previously been excluded.' And if so, let me just call 'Poppycock!' on that little disingenuous argument from the get go, because there has been a very good reason why the Churches have been excluded traditionally from the delicate area of Women's Sexual Health Counselling. They are biased. Also, during his time as Employment Minister, Tony Abbott privatised the Job Network and opened it up to Church organisations. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, they can provide job seekers with job finding services, however, it was a back door way of channelling government funds through the back door to the Churches. Not only that but Mega Churches and other faith-based groups were, until recently-enacted changes came through from the Labor government, able to open up businesses, such as Gloria Jean's Coffee Shops, and pay very little to no tax because of a Howard-era loophole created for them to slip through. Instead of being classed as businesses, they were not-for-profits who could plow all their profits back into expanding their business empire. An unfair advantage over legitimate secular businesses. Finally, it has been under Coalition government's watch that businesses run by religious organisations, which includes schools, have been allowed to discriminate against potential employees based upon nothing more than the fact that the potential employee is an atheist or of a different religion to the one that runs the business. All of the above examples are of the line blurring, under Coalition governments, which once used to be a clear-cut one that separated Churh and State.

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011In fantastic news just in: [quote]Fed Court finds against Andrew Bolt and HWT in race case, court erupts into applause. Herald Sun forced to apologise.[/quote]

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011Ad, You appear to be as overjoyed at the news as me! As the Prime Minister said: "Don't write crap." :D

Ad astra reply

28/09/2011Folks Breaking news - Andrew Bolt found guilty of breaching the Racial Discrimination Act.

Ad astra reply

28/09/2011Folks Apologies for the triple post re Andrew Bolt - it took me three shots to get the wording right.

lyn

28/09/2011 Hi Ad Thankyou for your scoop, what terrific news. I went and had a little look after your report. Here is a couple of links, but there is more news to come they say, wonder what the penalty is seeing this:- [quote]highly personal, highly derogatory and highly offensive attacks” on the nine individuals[/quote] [quote]Andrew Bolt found guilty, 3AW[/quote] Channel Nine reporter Brett McLeod says there was 'applause at the rear of the court' as the verdict was delivered http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/breaking-news-blog/andrew-bolt-found-guilty/20110928-1kw78.html [quote]Andrew Bolt loses racial vilification court case, Michael Body, The Australian[/quote] did not incite “racial vilification or racial hatred”, rather they “[b]constituted highly personal, highly derogatory and highly offensive attacks” on the nine individuals[/b]. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/andrew-bolt-x-racial-vilification-court-case/story-e6frg996-1226148919092 Cheers:):):):)

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011Sir Ian Crisp, You might also like to refresh your memory with this, in case you missed it a couple of days ago: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/the-experts-have-got-it-wrong-gillard-was-not-disloyal-to-rudd/story-e6frgd0x-1226146014954

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011I see The Australian are already trying to spin the Bolt Court Case finding as 'not actually inciting racial hatred or racial villification.' Yeah, right. Of course the test will now be for the ABC. How will they report it?

jj

28/09/2011I am sorry FS, but i think you should go and read our constitution and the constitution of countries such as the U.S. so you dont get religious influence mixed up with the separation of Church and state. I dont think any dominant influence is a good one, but i just think you are totally wrong in saying that Abbott tries to impose his religion on others. Whether they are religious views or not, politicians are always imposing their views upon others, IT IS THEIR JOB!

Gravel

28/09/2011Well that is good news about Bolt. Unfortunately I just heard him on ABC 774 news saying he now can't talk about multiculturalism?? Talk Turkey Great piece of verse, are you still on holidays?

Trevor

28/09/2011I think JJ's last post is as near a concession of defeat you will get FS. If it was a game of chess the table would now be upside down and the pieces scattered, perhaps the ringing of door slamming the only sound. Concerning Bolta,I am reluctant to wrap myself in schadenfreude but perhaps I will succumb just a little. Wait for the cry's of "Free Speech is Trampled". Will they actually print the judgment though? I have only heard it reported on the wireless but from what I heard the Hon's said the article was not in good faith and contained factual errors. That should make it hard to run the free speech line but I doubt it will stop them.

lyn

28/09/2011 Hi Trevor This is the Court summary: [quote]Federal Court of Australia Eatock v Bolt [2011] FCA 1103 [/quote](28 September 2011) Last Updated: 28 September 2011 FEDERAL COURT OF AUSTRALIA Eatock v Bolt [2011] FCA 1103 SUMMARY http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2011/1103.html Cheeers :):):):)

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011Trevor, I thought the best part of His Hon's summation of the crimes of A Bolt was when he said wtte: "Mr Bolt appears to have relied to a large degree on Google for his information." :D

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011lyn, You are a goldmine of information. Thank you. :)

Trevor

28/09/2011Well I did succumb and have a look at how the Oz is reporting BoltA's run in with the law. No mention in the article of factual errors but many quotes from Mr Bolt. As expected the Free Speech defense is trumpeted loudly and the posts after the article are mostly echoing this and staunchly defending Bolt. If believed then "Our Democracy is Dead"; Where have I seen that before? Perhaps they should take note of this quote Anita Heiss used at the end of her piece on the Drum. [i]"Free speech is the cornerstone of genuine democracy, but when writers publish disinformation dressed up as fact, lies as truth, slander as objective evaluation and call it free speech, they are devaluing its very essence and betraying all those who've fought for it."[/i] If this tenet were to be followed I doubt many of BoltA's blogs could be published. The other point not acknowledged by those defending Bolt is that it is not a debate between equals. One has a stage with a stack of Marshal amps the other a scratchy, battery operated toy. When the party with the loudest voice is spreading BS how are you to defend and correct the record? I don't know the details of what happened prior the federal court case but would be surprised if this could not have been remedied earlier by Bolt correcting the story when presented with the facts. Perhaps his martyr complex would not let an opportunity such as this to go by.

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011PMO's office has distributed this transcript of a Maxine McKew interview from back in the day when Tony Abbott sued Bob Ellis for Defamation(he is nothing if not a hypocrite and an opportunist is Mr Abbott): http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/stories/s14318.htm

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011Drum poll: http://www.abc.net.au/news/thedrum/polls/ Vote early and vote often! ;-)

Ad astra reply

28/09/2011FS While only around 300 votes have been counted in the ABC poll, just three out of ten agree with Andrew Bolt.

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011Media Watch story from the time of the Andrew Bolt trial. Well worth a re-read: http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3181946.htm

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011Trevor, I bet if I wrote in a public forum that Andrew Bolt was a .......(fill in the blanks appropriately), then I would be sued by him and the lawyers from Ltd News quicker than I could say, "Sorry.".

NormanK

28/09/2011A bit more reading for those who require it. On topic - Peter Costello on Abbott's attitude to IR reform. [b]Abbott must promote Liberal IR values: Costello[/b] By Katherine Murphy [quote]He also broadens his criticism of the Coalition's general policy direction by drawing an explicit counterpoint between what he identifies as old-style Catholic collectivist and protectionist philosophies, and core Liberal free market values. Mr Costello makes reference to the Democratic Labor Party in making his case against Catholic-inspired collectivism; reminding his readers that Mr Abbott ''worked closely with the DLP in his student days''.[/quote] http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbott-must-promote-liberal-ir-values-costello-20110927-1kvh1.html The original article by Costello can be found here: [b]Blast from the past no longer the way of the future[/b] by Peter Costello [quote]One of the Coalition spokesmen who seems to have an affinity with the old regulated order of the Australian economy is Barnaby Joyce. These days he is apparently free to speak on all areas of policy. Writing recently in The Canberra Times, Barnaby made much of his Jesuit education as a reason for airing doubts about free trade. According to Barnaby, most of the Australian economy is protected in one way or another and ''once you start protecting some things then you start to protect others''. The concept of ''protection all round'' - that one sector deserves protection and all the others are entitled to some kind of corresponding benefit - is certainly a DLP idea. It might be held in some parts of the National Party, but it is certainly not a Liberal idea. Liberals believe that our economy can be more productive and create more jobs with higher wages if we promote freedom and flexibility all round. During the Hawke and Keating governments Labor started moving in that direction as well.[/quote] http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/blast-from-the-past-no-longer-the-way-of-the-future-20110927-1kvb7.html A bit of praise for a government initiative (all-be-it with the mandatory criticism): [b]Shining Knight saves higher ed exports[/b] by Paul Kelly [quote]WHILE the political focus has been on boats, the Gillard government has taken a pivotal decision to reform visa policy, salvage Australia's $16 billion third largest export industry and give universities a guaranteed revenue stream as the euro-driven crisis tightens public funding. With Australian universities predicting international student revenue would fall off a cliff in 2012, slumping between 5 per cent and 30 per cent, Labor has done something unusual: it has acted swiftly, competitively and exceeded expectations.[/quote] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/shining-knight-saves-higher-ed-exports/story-e6frg6zo-1226148403397 A name to keep an eye out for over the next 24 hours - Professor John Fairbairn. Don't expect to see it flashed around the mainstream though - he has had the temerity to not only back the carbon pricing scheme but to suggest that it will be far more effective than current modelling suggests. The headline refers to ExxonMobil backing a carbon tax over an ETS. [b]Oil giant supports carbon tax[/b] by Andrew Tillett and Shane Wright [quote]One of the nation's most respected economists, Professor John Fairbairn, used a public forum in Canberra yesterday to argue that under the carbon tax, businesses would deliver bigger cuts in emissions at much lower cost than even Treasury had estimated. Professor Fairbairn said under the acid rain emissions trading scheme in the US, businesses had changed their practices rapidly and in ways never envisioned. He said local businesses would deliver "threefold" on the expected cuts in carbon emissions.[/quote] http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/10357471/oil-giant-supports-carbon-tax/ Anyone with high blood pressure should perhaps avoid the next one but budding satirists might like to pick up a few pointers. I tried to research the author to find out whether he was serious or not but had no success. I didn't see any clues to suggest that this piece is satire but it could easily be regarded as such. The Clubs' campaign against poker machine reform (the 'footie tax' - thanks Eddie) stands a very real chance of blowing up in a lot of people's faces especially those who associate their name and reputation with the doom-sayers. How they manage to simultaneously make the case that the reforms won't work and that they will spell the end of pubs and clubs is beyond me. [b]It's a safe bet the invisible victims of pokie laws will not be seen[/b] by Peter Holmes [quote]GOOD to see the NRL finally sinking the boot into Andrew Wilkie and Julia Gillard's un-Australian and anti-working class poker machine reforms. It's high time the Prime Minister, Mr Wilkie and all the usual nanny-state, enviro-warrior do-gooders - Tim Costello, Nick Xenophon, Bob Brown, I am looking at you - stopped bashing the salt-of-the-earth club industry over a few lousy slots. If they don't, well, Sunday's NRL grand final will likely be the last you'll ever see, so enjoy it. ************************************ Myopic, elitist, brioche-nibbling doctor's wife types only ever focus on one thing: the hundreds of thousands of hopelessly hooked pokie fiends who slide note after note into machines ................. fringe-dwelling, inner-city, Sunday socialist, chardonnay-guzzlers moan that clubs are shamelessly preying on addicted gamblers .......... Kids' sport will be something your grand pappy talks about with misty eyes. Bowling greens will turn to dust. As clubs and pubs crumble and community grants evaporate, society's weakest - desperate for anything to add to the sticks and rocks in their soup pot - will be reduced to fighting over tumbleweeds.[/quote] I've saved some of the best 'til last - look at this quote and tell me that if you reversed it, it wouldn't read: "Addicted gamblers, through their outlays, keep pubs and clubs open." [quote]What Wilkie won't tell you is that with addicted gamblers reducing their outlay, clubs and pubs will go to the wall at the rate of about 20 a day.[/quote] Read the article - it argues that we need problem gamblers to keep 'interior designers', the 'post-mix soft drink industry, and manufacturers of discount spring rolls, Potato Gems, coffee sachets and individual UHT milk servings' in business. What a looney. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/its-a-safe-bet-the-invisible-victims-of-pokie-laws-will-not-be-seen/story-e6frezz0-1226148389876

Patricia WA

28/09/2011And much good will that sort of article do. NormanK, it's a no brainer, isn't it? Anyone with common sense can see right through the anti-pokies reform propaganda. Let's hope if there are more comments on the DT story they will be in the same vein as those posted already. No one with children who competes in games of any kind at any level, or who genuinely enjoys watching or participating in sport themselves, will buy the argument from Clubs Australia. Andrew Wilkie may be on a winner with this and be doing something positive for the government. Most of the comments I've read elsewhere say the same thing. They are all pretty disgusted with the specious reasoning that addicts of any kind are there to fund sporting facilities for the rest of us. I was interested to see a several comments on blogs and responding to media articles from sandgropers pointing out how well WA does in national competition in many sports with no help at all from pokies. I hope people are giving this kind of feedback to their local members too.

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011This sounds like fun: abcqanda Tomorrow, @OakeyMP will be answering your questions in a live #QandA @ 2pm on facebook.com/abcqanda. Don't miss it! #auspol

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011From the PM's AsiaLink speech today: [quote]'I’m a decision-maker, not a commentator, and I don’t by nature reach for the jawbone or the megaphone.' [/quote]

Ad astra reply

28/09/2011NormanK What a great collection of articles you have given us to read! If the last one is not satire and is therefore part of [i]The Daily Telegraph’s[/i] ideological campaign against the poker machine legislation, what hope is there for a fair society that supports people with serious mental illnesses, such as gambling addiction?

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011A couple more blogs about the Bolt decision: http://twtmore.com/note/MR1 http://wixxy.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/the-brief-belting-bolt-blog/

Casablanca

28/09/2011Trevor That was an excellent quote from Anita Heiss that you posted: [i]Free speech is the cornerstone of genuine democracy, but when writers publish disinformation dressed up as fact, lies as truth, slander as objective evaluation and call it free speech, they are devaluing its very essence and betraying all those who've fought for it.[/i] I had to re-acquaint myself with the original Bolt article so to save others having to Google it here are a couple of links. Bolt claimed in an article published in the Herald Sun in 2009 that author Anita Heiss had "won plum jobs reserved for Aborigines at Koori Radio, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Arts Board and Macquarie University's Warawara Department of Indigenous Studies". Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bolts-wrong-but-hes-not-sorry-20110330-1cfqt.html#ixzz1ZE3Z0lNC The original article by Bolt is 'Column - White is the new black' http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_white_is_the_new_black/P120/ A friend recently gave me a fridge magnet from the Neweum in Washington which is particularly apposite today as Bolt bleats about the end of freedom of speech: [b]Freedom of speech is not a license to be stupid. Anon.[/b]

NormanK

28/09/2011Patricia WA and Ad astra The more I think about that gambling article the more inclined I am to believe that it is satire. If it is then it is lacking the verbal equivalent of a smilie to indicate that the author's tongue is firmly placed in his cheek. This is a shortcoming - at some point the author should let the reader off the hook.

Trevor

28/09/2011With ref to the current goings on with BoltA and the Anti Pokies reform lot I think there could be another topic for a post. That is why is the right incapable of having reasoned debate? Something that seems to be consistent now is that there is no such as thing as having a moderate disagreement. As soon as an issue come up that they disagree with it is immediately elevated to the death of country, highest stakes level. Is this another version of Godwins law? Are we incapable of reasoned debate and keeping things in perspective? Looking at some of the responses in News to BoltA's judgment you would think thought police have been commissioned and the rules have now changed. Anyway I am probably off message I just thought it could be worthy of another discussion.

Trevor

28/09/2011Casablanca Yes it is a good quote and succinctly sums up the issue. It is not Anita Heiss's words though, she was quoting Dr Rosie Scott.

2353

28/09/2011FS - thanks for the link, it was clever. Unfortunately I don't think those that should get the point will do so. Bolt's legal loss couldn't happen to a nicer bloke! The "free speech" argument seems to suggest that while all are "free" some are "freer" than others. Howard and Tampa have a lot to answer for.

2353

28/09/2011Cross posted from another forum. Pity we haven't learnt anything in the past 80 years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WibmcsEGLKo&feature=youtu.be

Patricia WA

28/09/2011I think you're right, NormanK. I've just commented as if is satire!

Feral Skeleton

28/09/2011I just had to love the hecklet outside the Courts in Melbourne today, when Bolt was trying to spin his 'Free Speech' line to camera and was out-shouted by someone saying, "What you say is not Free Speech!". :D

Miglo

28/09/2011Fabulous article FS. An academic career awaits you. I can draw a parallel with your argument to the Spencer inspired Social Darwinism of the late 19th century. He who could not compete with the dominant society was doomed.

Casablanca

28/09/2011FS Agree that it was good to hear the heckler but it was sickening to witness the reBOLTing retort from our un-contrite defender of Free Speech. Not only was Bolt un-contrite but he glared at the heckler and demanded to be granted the right to exercise his freedom of speech (or wtte) by not being talked over by that same person. This is the bully boy whose main tactic is to shout people down in print and in spoken interviews. Ha! reCAPTURA: slappe oponent

2353

29/09/2011A nice opinion piece on Bolt. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/in-black-and-white-andrew-bolt-trifled-with-the-facts-20110928-1kxba.html "Perhaps the Herald Sun and its star journalist should be thankful they're not facing nine separate defamation trials. An appeal is expected - so is some spectacular rhetoric from the now martyred Andrew Bolt."

lyn

29/09/2011 [b]TODAY’S LINKS[/b] [i] Hang onto your dentures, it's going to be a long shift, Greg Jericho, The Drum[/i] The Government has introduced measures to encourage older workers to continue to work. The "New Work Bonus" which began in July this year included changes so that the first $250 of fortnightly employment income will not be counted under the pension income test http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3025468.html [i]Tony Abbott’s Senate Majority Has Gone. Fame Will Pass Him By, Peter, Aussie Views News[/i] It is no longer possible for Tony Abbott to carry the day simply by a swagger and non thinking criticism. To win the day now, the Oppositionneeds to formulate policy that can persuade the Independents and The Greens to support it. http://www.aussieviewsnews.com/2011/09/28/abbott-senate-fame/ [i]Wipeout, Possum Comitatus, Pollytics[/i] Last month’s Pollytrend update saw a small movement back to Labor – small, but the largest movement towards them that they had experienced since the election last year. Suffice to say, that movement back to the ALP troughed out and is now in slight http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2011/09/28/wipeout/ [i]Adelaide event: Coal seam gas forum, Kelsey, Getup[/i] Adelaide sits on the cusp of the huge Murray Darling Basin – the network of rivers essential to life in Eastern Australia. Coal seam gas mining threatens this system, our environment and our groundwater. http://blog.getup.org.au/2011/09/27/adelaide-event-coal-seam-gas-forum/ “[i]Don’t be a dick” - the golden rule of news website comment threads,currybetdotnet[/i] management guidelines or blogging and commenting guidelines for staff, they basically boil down to “Don’t be a dick Flounce back onto the comment thread demanding to know why your comment has been removed? Accuse the publisher of censoring you or restricting your freedom ofspeech? Insist you should be given a personal reply from the moderation team http://www.currybet.net/cbet_blog/2011/09/news-websites-comments-golden-rule.php?utm_source= [i]The Good, The Bad and the Ugly, Ramon Lobato, Inside Story[/i] editor Chris Mitchell, has mutated into a “national enforcer” of neoliberal/market-fundamentalist values. As anyone who regularly reads the Australian knows, the paper has long since abandoned any attempt to weigh both sides when it comes to certain pet issues, and now operates more as what Manne describes as “a remorseless campaigning paper.” http://inside.org.au/the-good-the-bad-the-ugly/ [i]Limits of liberal critique- Murdoch, the media & the Manne QE, Tad Tietze Overland[/i] Robert Manne has done everyone who hates the right-wing, hysterically partisan and mendacious editorial approach of The Australian a considerableservice. In the latest Quarterly Essay he has compiled a dossier of some of the Murdoch paper’s most egregious crimes http://web.overland.org.au/2011/09/limits-of-liberal-critique-murdoch-the-media-the-manne-qe/ [i]Global Resolve: Wayne Swan on Economic Policy, Australian Politics TV[/i] The Treasurer, Wayne Swan, has outlined Australia’s economic policy, the nation’s role in Asia, and the challenges of the global economy, in a speech to the Harvard Club of New York.The speech follows Swan’s acceptance of the Finance Minister of the Year award from Euromoney magazine. http://australianpolitics.com/2011/09/27/global-resolve-wayne-swan.html [i]Everyday battlers doing it for Phar Lap (or, In the pocket of Big Fondue), Geoff Lemon, Heathen Scripture[/i] What do we get? We get the ultimate insult: immigrants coming in to take our stuff. Where do we put them? Can’t put them in the desert, or the pinkos have a parade. Can’t put them in the country, because Jack Thompson needs it for being laconic in commercials. Solve that, Europants. http://heathenscripture.wordpress.com/2011/09/28// [i]Turnbull clashes with Google at broadband forum, Supratim Adhikari, Technology Spectator[/i] speaking at a panel session after Mr Lo’s address at the forum, Mr Turnbull said that Google was supportive of the NBN mainly because the network willbe beneficial to its interests, without taking into account the massive burden it will put on Australian taxpayers. http://technologyspectator.com.au/nbn-buzz/turnbull-clashes-google-broadband-forum [i]Doubling broadband speeds would boost Aus GDP by $3.9b, Stuart Corner, ITWire[/i] Ericsson has released findings from a study across 33 OECD economies, including Australia, that, it says found that a doubling of broadband speed produced a 0.3 percent increase in the GDP of that economy - $A3.9b in the case of Australia http://www.itwire.com/it-policy-news/government-tech-policy/50032-doubling-broadband-speeds-would-boost-aus-gdp-by-37b [i]New Broadband Lab to help businesses get ahead, Prime Minister of Australia, Press Office[/i] Recent economic reports have estimated that by 2016, the internet will contribute $70 billion per annum to the Australian economy. It will create jobs, boost productivity, provide new and improved online health and education services and improve government service delivery. http://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/new-broadband-lab-help-businesses-get-ahead [i]The nature and tasks of a socialist group in Australia today » En Passant, Darin Sullivan, Left Hack[/i] The aim of socialists is to build a mass revolutionary party that can cohere working class resistance to the attacks of the capitalist class and eventually lead a revolution that will bring workers to power http://darinsullivan.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/the-nature-and-tasks-of-a-socialist-group-in-australia-today-%c2%bb-en-passant/ [i]On (immigration restrictions) {they shouldn’t exist} , itsouraustralia , Australia Now[/i] imposing restrictions on migration doesn’t, in most cases, actually stop migration: if people are desperate enough for work, they will migrate with or without documents, taking substantial risks in order to do so. Imposing penalties on undocumented migration simply http://itsouraustralia.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/on-immigration-restrictions-they-shouldnt-exist/ [i]A Nation Slipping Under The Sea, Dan Edwards, New Matilda[/i] A 52-minute version of The Hungry Tide will screen on SBS at 9.30pm on Sunday, 9 October. The feature-length cut will screen in cinemas in Sydney and Melbourne in late November http://newmatilda.com/2011/09/28/nation-slipping-under-sea [i]Scandalous NSW Government gets soft ride by Media, Peter Wicks, Independent Australia[/i] In what is a real victory for freedom of speech, freedom of information, and a free press, there is a gag order on naming the 62 year old minister and there is the threat of legal action against anybody who does. Nor can we discuss the alleged acts that took place between the Minister and his companion. http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/politics/scandalous-nsw-government-gets-soft-ride-by-media/ [b]ANDREW BOLT:-[/b] [i]The Brief Belting Bolt Blog, Wixxy, Wixxy’s Blog[/i] Even the slimiest paedophile should have freedom to express his views. As should the Nazi sympathiser, the convicted rapist, the serial killer, the scum who prey on the elderly to steal their pensions, and the nastiest racist bastard on earth… they all deserve a say http://wixxy.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/the-brief-belting-bolt-blog/ @[quote]GrogsGamutGreg Jericho [/quote] RT @robcorr: A quick response to Dodd's instapunditry on the #bolt decision: http://n.tm.to/MR1 Controversially, the judge also ruled that it's the group of people who have been offended that should determine whether or not a comment isoffensive. In other words, the views of an average Herald Sun reader are not important here. It's the views of Aboriginal people that matter.” http://twtmore.com/note/MR1 [i]Andrew Bolt found to have contravened Racial Discrimination Act, Legal Eagle, Skeptic Lawyer[/i] Aboriginal identity is a very complex one, and attempts to simply reduce a discussion about Aboriginal identity to simple skin colour is utterly wrong-headed. Nonetheless, I am deeply concerned about provisions which seek to prevent people from expressing views http://skepticlawyer.com.au/ [i]Columnist broke Australian race laws with Aborigines remark, The Guardian[/i] A rightwing commentator has been found guilty of breaking Australian discrimination laws by implying that fair-skinned Aborigines chose to identify as indigenous for profit and career advancement.Federal court justice Mordy Bromberg ruled that fair-skinnedAborigines were likely to have been "offended, insulted, humiliated or intimidated http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/28/columnist-guilty-australian-race-laws-aborigines?CMP=twt_fd [i]The quality journalism project: Switzer the Spectator, Amber Jamieson, Crikey[/i] John Howard (The Australian even called him a “confidant”) and was a former adviser to opposition leader Brendan Nelson. But it was his time as editor of the opinion pages in The Australian — yes, he hired Janet Albrechtsen —  that placed him http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/09/28/tom-switzer-profile/ [i]Andrew Bolt is officially a racist, Barry Everingham, Independent Australia[/i] [b]Take his obsession with Julia Gillard[/b]; he really is over the top when it comes to the Prime Minister —frothing at the mouth, his eyes wild at the merest mention of her name.Could it be that he secretly loves her and has been rebuffed? http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/media-2/andrew-bolt-is-officially-a-racist/ [i]Bolt decision: guilty of discrimination, judge declares, Andrew Cook, Crikey[/i] it wasn’t just racial hatred at stake — Bolt was also a sloppy journalist, Bromberg said, that had cynically penned the pieces in a bald-faced attempt to be “destructive of racial tolerance”. The provocative “manner” in which Bolt bent his keyboard was crucial. http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/09/28/bolt-decision-guilty-of-discrimination-judge-declares/ [i]Freedom of Speech?,Ash, Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery[/i] As is typical with some, it is easier to make an absurd statement without looking at the judgement. I point out the reason the judge made his statement. http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/freedom/ [i]Bolt Guilty, Dave Gaukroger, Pure Poison[/i] Andrew Bolt has been found guilty of breaching the Racial Discrimination Act.Update: A press release from Anita Heiss, one of thecomplainants.Update 2: The text of the judgement , Update 3: From the judgement: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/ [i]Andrew Bolt found guilty of racial discrimination, Matthew Knott, The Power Index[/i] He also criticised Bolt for writing an article that contained "errors of fact, distortions of the truth and inflammatory and provocative language". http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/power-fail/andrew-bolt-found-guilty-of-racial-discrimination/20110928467 [i]Bolt loses in court but will public condemnation follow?, Bridget Griffen-Foley, The Conversation[/i] Sydney talkback hosts such as Alan Jones, Chris Smith and Mike Smith, and columnists including Andrew Bolt, have inflamed political passion anddiscontent as never before in Australia. I think this decision may only add to the hysteria.As a historian, I can recall only one other time – News Ltd’s coverage of the events of 1975, when journalists went on strike in protest – that issues related to the media have been debated with such fervour. http://theconversation.edu.au/bolt-loses-in-court-but-will-public-condemnation-follow-3597 [i]Bolt is guilty, but the law is wrong – let the markets deal with racial discrimination,Sinclair Davidson, The Conversation[/i] Andrew Bolt has been found guilty of violating section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act by suggesting that several individuals had claimedAboriginality in order to further their careers. http://theconversation.edu.au/bolt-is-guilty-but-the-law-is-wrong-let-the-markets-deal-with-racial-discrimination-3600? [i]Bolt found guilty of breaching discrimination act, ABC[/i] Today Federal Court Justice Mordecai Bromberg found Bolt had breached the act because the articles were not written in good faith and contained factual errors http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-28/bolt-found-guilty-of-breaching-discrimination-act/3025918 [i]Columnist complains it's a terrible day free speech, ABC Listen to full interview with Julian Disney[/i] Alison Caldwell http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-28/columnist-complains-its-a-terrible-day-free-speech/3026546?section=vic [i]Bolt found guilty under Racial Discrimination Act, Robert Merkel, Larvatus Prodeo[/i] While the specifics of the legalities are different, my view remains the same as in 2010: Bolt is a an ugly blot on the media landscape, but that doesn’t mean that anything he wrote in those articles deserves criminal or civil sanction .http://larvatusprodeo.net/2011/09/28/bolt-found-guilty-under-racial-discrimination-act/

Feral Skeleton

29/09/2011Casablanca, Better that heckle than Bolt getting his propaganda out undiluted after the decision. I was just reading the Dr Tad Tietze piece about the Manne essay that was a link within a link that lyn linked to on September 27(phew!) and this comment resonated with me by way of giving me a timeline and wellspring from which the attitudinal bias of the Murdoch Press and it's hacks springs: [quote]Robert Bollard says: September 28 2011 at 1:21 pm Ever since I read this a couple of days ago I’ve felt like posting a “guess what I was reading last week” post because it just so happens that, around about the time you posted this, I was in the reading room of the National Library reading letters written by Keith Murdoch to Billy Hughes during the Great War. The only thing that stopped me posting immediately was a concern that I would be mistaken for arguing that there is something exceptional about the phenomenon of Murdoch, and I agree pretty much with your analysis and with your criticisms of Manne’s approach. The letters from the elder Murdoch to Hughes reveal a chilling Faustian moment as the young Keith seizes the moment of the war and the conscription crisis to make his personal fortune and connections to power. He flatters Hughes, begs for assistance with buiding up the news cable business he’s running and for introductions to the powerful. He boasts of the connections he’s gained and regails Hughes with gossip, and glories in his new found wealth, in the fancy cigarette case Hughes sent him and the valet he can now afford. The letters also discuss Murdoch’s efforts to secure a “Yes” vote from the men at the front and his advice, when it is clear that they are going to vote “No”, to keep the result secret. At one point he wistfully regrets that he isn’t at the front himself (he was single, fit and in his early thirties). It is all both fascinating and revolting. This is Rupert’s dad after all. I couldn’t help but think as I was reading the letters: “This is where it all began.” Now to tell this story, which appears to have more in keeping with the plot of the Godfather than with real history, would appear to only reinforce the idea, that Manne and other liberal critics of Murdoch hold, that there is something exceptional about Murdoch (or in this case the Murdoch clan) – that he is an exception, a sort of hobgoblin haunting the media. But there’s another way of understanding the personal tale of corruption (and by the way I can recommend Geoffrey Serle’s excellent summary of Keith’s career in the ADB if you want the full story) which has to do with the interconnections of power and capital which Keith’s journey from suburban journalist to proprietor reveal. It’s a bit like how the revelations about the Chipping Norton Set have exposed the reality of class and power in Britain. In Britain now, largely due to the revelations about Murdoch and the connections between editors police and politicians, it is simply common sense to use the term “ruling class”. We might quibble about the fact that it is understood more as a sociological category rather than something that is defined by an economic relationship, but this is clearly a step forward.[/quote] http://web.overland.org.au/2011/09/limits-of-liberal-critique-murdoch-the-media-the-manne-qe/ Bolt appears to be the purest distillation of that.

Michael

29/09/2011Apparently ABC News Breakfast viewers don't have eyes to see. After 'Saint Andrew of the Free Speech Barricades' was shown reading out his self-serving little speech before the media, and then walked away, stand in female co-host of the day, Beverley, described the footage as "Andrew Bolt braving the crowds". All I saw was a lot of clear air around Bolt, with six or seven people in the background, one of whom sent him off with the observation, "You're scum, Bolt". Anthony Albanese 'braved a crowd' a week or so back. The media have to wake up: TV viewers see, newspapers read, radio-listeners listen. Commentators re-defining the clearly observed on the spot only make themselves look... stupid.

Ad astra reply

29/09/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra reply

29/09/2011Hi Lyn What a fantastic collection - over thirty links! Is that a record? Thank you for great reading for later this morning.

Feral Skeleton

29/09/2011Wow! Bingo! lyn has read my mind and linked to the Dr Tad piece on the Overland blog today. :)

Feral Skeleton

29/09/2011Michael, Birds of a journalistic feather flock together. If they didn't stand shoulder to shoulder in solidarity, comrade, with their brother journalists, then they would no longer have licence to behave similarly in the future. And we couldn't have that in modern-day journalism, could we? ;-)

Feral Skeleton

29/09/2011Well, I don't want to gloat(nah, I do :D ), but I will be away for most of the day today because I and my son will be going down to Sydney to attend a talk at The State Library of NSW by Prof Robert Manne and Melinda Warner, head of Media Matters for America, on 'US Lessons: Preventing Bias in Australian Media:the dilemmas of bias and misinformation in Australia and suggestions of reforms to safeguard the integrity of the media. I'll take my notebook. :)

lyn

29/09/2011Good Morning Ad I broke my record this morning. There were 31 this morning, I have amazed myself. Glad I love reading. I see the topic of conversation this morning, is not sorry he continues to cry free speech. Did you see what Barry Everingham on Independent Australia said about the obsession with Julia Gillard, is that free speech by you know who? Another interesting piece was Peter at Aussie Views News, regarding Mr Abbott and his non policies, saying that Abbott cannot negotiate with the Senate or reach any agreement without policies. [quote]madwixxyPeter Wicks, Wixxy's Blog[/quote] Another good blog on Bolt. I'm an Aborigine: just ask Andrew Bolt http://wp.me/pOosp-1hS /via @wordpressdotcom [quote]I’m an Aborigine: just ask Andrew Bolt, Min, Cafe Whispers[/quote] And it’s worth repeating, Bolt lost his case because he got his facts wrong and because he distorted the truth and tried to inflame and provoke. http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/im-an-aborigine-just-ask-andrew-bolt/ A few tweets for our readers, the tweets on TV ABC Breakfast are more favourable than my selection:- [i]CatherineDevenyCatherine Deveny[/i] Hey @HeraldSun. No comments allowed on the Andrew Bolt story all day. Freedom of speech. What gives? [quote]mikestuchberyMike Stuchbery[/quote] David Marr pins Andrew Bolt to the ground and expertly marks him with his scent. Metaphorically speaking. - http://bit.ly/obgZEO [quote]kjob85Kieran[/quote] David Marr knocks the absurd notion that the #Bolt decision threatens free speech on the head http://bit.ly/obgZEO [quote]MediaMookNeil Walker[/quote] Arf. Andrew Bolt suddenly the Rodney King of Australian trollumnism: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/silencing-me-impedes-unity/story-e6frfifx-1226150249249 [i]theagebreakingTheAge Breaking News[/i] Andrew Bolt shows his true colours: A terrible day for free speech in Australia, or just a terrible day for Bolt... http://bit.ly/qsQh7T [quote]abcthedrumThe Drum [/quote] The Bolt decision is a slap in the face for free expression, writes Andrew Dodd http://bit.ly/nVjf2B #bolt [quote]esseeeayeennSéan Hawkes by BerraBek[/quote] Freedom of speech has NEVER meant that you can say anything about anyone with impunity and without any consequences. #auspol #Bolt [quote]CybrarianPetePeter Kellyby RyanSheales[/quote] I thought his freedom of speech was stifled? RT @RyanSheales: Anybody else tuning into @MTR1377AM for Andrew (cont) http://tl.gd/dbppcv Cheers:):):):):):):):)

Patricia WA

29/09/2011That's a useful article to send nuisance visitors to in today's links, Lyn! Neat golden rule too! [i]“Don’t be a dick!” [/i] http://www.currybet.net/cbet_blog/2011/09/news-websites-comments-golden-rule.php?utm_source=

Sir Ian Crisp

29/09/2011FS, I would have replied earlier but I was volunteering**. My reference to Spong, Derrida et al was meant to blunt: [quote]‘Ideology is grounded in the real world. It offers us a philosophical lens through which we can efficiently process what's happening in the world around us. Religion is different. It's a fixed belief system based on faith, and it is immune to-or at least highly resistant to-challenges mounted by objective reality.' Joshua Holland[/quote] If religion is incapable of reform why would the Church of England ordain 213 women and 210 men as priests in 2007#? Hardly ‘Pop’ religion icons eh what. In the modern era, that immoveable belief system known as religion started ordaining women in the Easter of 1994. In the USA and Canada we now have women bishops. It seems like change is afoot but no one has informed Mr Joshua Holland. What does it have to do with the Religious Right on latter-day Conservative politics? You quote Holland to underscore your contention that religion is spreading its evil yet change is underway. For every Pat Robertson+ there may well be a Thelma Smith to promote a softer side of religion^. Thank you for that Barry Cohen article but alas The Australian is not on AA’s approved reading list. If I found one counterargument would that negate Cohen’s article? A saying comes to mind when I read your blatherings: The mind and the parachute have one thing in common and that is they only work when they are open. ** Sir Ian out volunteering! I thought he’d be driving through Mt Druitt using a bull horn to tell the residents they are little more than welfare dependent, dope smoking, philoprogenitive layabouts. # The Times, November 14, 2007. + In 1982 Robertson predicted the end of the world would occur in October or November of 1982. As if acting as Robertson’s marionettes, we have alleged educated people who are predicting great calamities like suburbs disappearing under water (Tanya Plibersek), the Australian East Coast being reduced to a dustbowl (Tim Flannery) and other juvenile rantings. If the Religious Right has any influence it would seem that it is well entrenched in the ALP and Australia’s alleged clerisy. ^ Sir Ian is a lapsed catholic who takes great delight in telling the religious door knockers to take their message of love, brotherhood, kindness etc to Bankstown, Lakemba, Punchbowl, Canterbury and that general area.

lyn

29/09/2011Hi Patricia Yes I got a kick out the [quote]Neat golden rule too! “Don’t be a dick!” [/quote] A few names come to mind. Cheers:):):):):):):):):):):):)

Ad astra reply

29/09/2011Folks If you haven’t read Andrew Bolt’s piece in the [i]Herald Sun[/i] today [i]Silencing me impedes unity[/i], here’s the link: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/silencing-me-impedes-unity/story-e6frfifx-1226150249249 If you have the stomach to read it, you will see that far from being a [i]mea culpa[/i], it is a ‘poor me – I can’t speak my mind any more’ on multicultural issues. Not surprisingly, he paints himself as the victim, and ’free speech’ the serious loser. He glosses over his factual errors, which Judge Bromberg considered to be crucial to his judgement, with a throw away line: “[i]…none seemed to me to be of consequence.”[/i] Likewise, Bolt dismisses the significance of the ‘derisive’ language he used, again central to the Bromberg judgement, with: [i]For expressing such views, in such language, I have lost my freedom to put my argument as I did.’[/i] Poor Andrew – he can’t now deride people as he sees fit. He does not record verbatim the words of the judge on these issue; is that because it would seriously weaken his ‘poor me’ posture? If what we have seen from Bolt’s pen for years now becomes somewhat more moderate, less savage, less biting, we can only applaud any ‘muzzling’ of his language he feels the judgement now imposes upon him.

Ad astra reply

29/09/2011FS I’ll leave it to you to respond to Sir Ian, if you feel so inclined. You might wish to offer him the link provided by Patricia WA: http://www.currybet.net/cbet_blog/2011/09/news-websites-comments-golden-rule.php

Ad astra reply

29/09/2011Hi Lyn So it was a record! You are putting in a great finish before you take a break in October, when NormanK will take over the supply of links. Thank you too for all the tweets. My impression from ABC radio this morning is that there were many more applauding the Bromberg judgement that supporting Andrew Bolt. Not surprisingly, it was John Roskam of the Institute of Public Affairs who was most vehement in defence of Bolt. Like so many of his persuasion, when disputing a decision or even straightforward facts, he says with great authority – Bromberg was wrong! No ifs or buts! Despite Bromberg being a learned judge, despite taking evidence for two weeks from many witnesses, despite taking many weeks to reach his judgement, despite a judgement that ran to over a hundred pages, Bromberg was, in Roskam’s view, simply wrong. Apart from being grossly arrogant, Roskam was exhibiting a learnt behaviour used consciously as a strategy to counter anything with which he and his ilk disagree, no matter how much evidence to the contrary. We see the same strategy being employed by Tony Abbott, Joe Hockey, Andrew Robb, Christopher Pyne, Sophie Mirabella, and so on the list goes.

Michael

29/09/2011Everyone reading here should go here: http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3035046.html#comments to read an article so skewed from reality and towards the Coalition Conspiracy on Climate Change, that is, written by a signed-up sucker from the CCOCCSuckers Alliance, if only because the responses to it overwhelmingly tip the nonsense written in the article onto the compost heap where it belongs. Which gives hope that commonsense and bullseye bullshit detection might still exist in the Australian community.

Sir Ian Crisp

29/09/2011I wish the ALP/Greens/Indies would show some courage regarding the global warming/climate change/strandard polar bears on postage stamp sized blocks of ice.

Gravel

29/09/2011Happy Birthday, Prime Minister Julia Gillard. Home all your dreams and wishes come true. Saw a picture of the puppy she will be getting for her birthday from Tim. They are cute, sad we couldn't afford one like that, but there ain't nothing wrong with our X Fox terrier. :-)

Trevor

29/09/2011SIC. I am still waiting for your reply to my invitation to rationally put forward an explanation of Direct Action and why it is a superior policy. I think that was a few weeks ago now so I trust you would have done a bit of research. If you cant be bothered that is fine. I will just assume you only come on to these sites to call people names, offer no alternatives then bolt when it becomes obvious you have nothing more to offer. Cheers

TalkTurkey

29/09/2011Hi folks Back in the Silver City of Broken Hill aboard the Indian-Pacific, a ratly ([i]sic[/i], accidentally, but let it stand!) old train it is too . . . The track is like the Curate's Egg, "good in parts!" More than 3 hours late this time, Sydney-Broken Hill, More than 2 hours late BH-Sydney . . . but $2.50 let little [i]old[/i] me travel on smooth fast Countrylink from Wyong to Sydney to Wollongong one day, and would have let me go further, and back, and if I had wished to, on ferries and buses, [i][b]Go Public Transport![/b][/i]in NSW, [i]everywhere else take note![/i]. (This, from a Croweater!) [u]MORE RAIL![/u] [u][i]FASTER[/i][/u] RAIL! Australian heavy transport should [i]run[/i] on rail imo. BTW Thank You Gravel re rhyme, glad for you if it rings a bell because it means you too are free of Religion, that scourge of humanity, and by extension the planet. Re 'holiday' well yes if that's what it has been, more along lines of noblesse oblige (or rather, kowtowing to family expectations) but it hasn't been too stressful and I looked up some old Lefty friends too, that was a treat, these people really are the Salt of the Earth, and I hope and would expect that all Goodwillians (who are of course Lefties themselves) have similar old friends with whom one feels after years of separation that you've never been away. (K) to those people. The Bolt judgment is a relief, and for those who claim it to be an abogation of their right to free speech, [b]suck eggs![/b]. Congratulations to Pat Eatock, and salutations to the wisdom of Justice Blomberg. Australia is a little fairer and the justice system a little more honourable as a result. Bravo. [i]Has anybody made the point[/i] that BumBolt [b]HAS[/b] [u][i]the absolute right to say anything he wants to? [/i]- [/u] Go ahead Bolt, accuse someone of paedophilia, or tax evasion, [i]you can do it![/i] - Who could stop you? - Might is right in this case, you got the mouth and the megaphone, and you know what you bastard? - [i](no offence to legit illegits!) - [/i], [i][b]those you misaccuse have the right to take you to court for slander![/b][/i] Drown in your blubbering tears you creep, you can say what you want any old time, but never again without the sneaking fear that if you step too far over the line, even your scum employers are going to count you too much of a risk. Step over the line Bolt [b][u][i]PLEEEEEEEZZZZZZ![/i][/u][/b] ;-)

TalkTurkey

29/09/2011Lyn I've about run out of words to express OUR gratitude and respect for your unstinting, ever-expanding, ever-relevant Daily Links. If you don't know by now how much we appreciate not merely those links but your whole welcoming attitude, well just look at the people who come back and back, Ad and FS and NK and PWA and Jason and all are great but you are our Stop Press and anybody who comes to the Sword with a seriously enquiring mind can find all the really sharp-end opinions every morning through your researches. the Sword and the whole blogosphere is more powerful because of you. Trevor, Michael, plus too any to keep up with, I do revel in your feisty opinions; please, those I haven't mentioned, it's no slight, I think every goodwilled opinion is worthy even when I might criticise some part of it. Folks keep your eye on the 2011 Wonkley Awards, for which Ad astra and The Political Sword have both been shortlisted. Our combined work is considered worthy of archiving by the National Library, and it seems to me [i]de rigeur[/i] for us to do our best, for Ad, for all us contributors, but most of all to increase the standing and power of the Sword itself, so to provide support for the decency of government in the Wide Brown Land. [i]Venceremos! [/i]

Sir Ian Crisp

29/09/2011Trevor darling, I suggest you hop in the time machine and travel back to the “Dastardly Deeds in Diagon Alley” article dated 9th September, 2011. My reply to you is in the comments section of that article @ 08:07PM.

TalkTurkey

29/09/2011OOPS @ 6.34 PM Ab[i]R[/i]ogation.

Jason

29/09/2011Sir Ian, No doubt you and your right wing brethren are behind this lol! http://www.facebook.com/louiethefly/

lyn

29/09/2011Hi Talk Turkey Thankyou for your lovely comment, you do have a talent for words. I have travelled from Adelaide to Perth on the Indian Pacific, I thought it was the most fantastic train ever, that was 36 years ago. Pleased to hear you had a nice holiday Talk Turkey, seems your relatives were pleased. Thankyou for enjoying the links, you know we really don't need to watch the news, read the newspapers, the bloggers are a constant source of valuable information. Our commenters on "The Political Sword" are fantastic, except for 1 or 2 that we need to send to :- [i]“Don’t be a dick” - the golden rule of news website comment threads,currybetdotnet[/i] management guidelines or blogging and commenting guidelines for staff, they basically boil down to “Don’t be a dick Flounce back onto the comment thread demanding to know why your comment has been removed? Accuse the publisher of censoring you or restricting your freedom of speech? Insist you should be given a personal reply from the moderation team http://www.currybet.net/cbet_blog/2011/09/news-websites-comments-golden-rule.php?utm_s9 Cheers:):):)

lyn

29/09/2011 Hi Ad Channel 10 Facebook page swamped with comments asking that Bolt be removed, George Brandis says the law needs to be changed. So if you are the Coalition Opposition without the numbers in the Senate to pass anything anyway, just run around saying you will change the laws that you the mighty Coalition don't like. [i]TAWNBPMTAWNBPM[/i]Well done TAWNBPMers ... the channel 10 FB page is swamped with posts asking Bolt to be removed .... keep it up... http://www.facebook.com/channelten?sk=wall [i]Diana Burgess This doesnt surprise me seeing as Bolt is the Liberal Party (lying) mouthpiece.[/i] [quote]Coalition flags race law changes after Bolt case[/quote]ABC The Federal Opposition says it may consider changes to racial discrimination laws following the Federal Court's ruling against political commentator Andrew Bolt http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-29/opposition-says-bolt-ruling-limits-political-freedom-/3040590 Cheers:):):):):)

Jaeger

29/09/2011Just when you think Tony Abbolt couldn't stoop any lower: http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/coalition-flags-bolt-race-act-change-20110929-1kz0j.html I assume the recent spotlight on Sophie Mirabella and Cory Benardi has been unflattering and send the cockroaches scurrying for cover, so they're desperate for a dog-whistle as a distraction.

2353

29/09/2011The house of cards is falling isn't it? You'd hope that the Bolt trial would cause some to thing about the rest of the outpourings of the Herald Sun's favourite son, and judging by the Channel 10 Twitter feed comment above it might be happening. Between them Mirabella, Bolt, Bernardi, Mary-Jo whatshername and Murdoch are the gift that keeps on giving.

Jason

29/09/2011Jaeger, "Senator Brandis said the RDA is a "terrible statute" and the coalition had warned in 1995, when it was amended by the Labor government, that cases such as that involving Bolt would arise." The coalition warned in 1995? and sat on its hands, and never mentioned it again until 2011.I don't know what's worse! Brandis saying it or the journo not asking Brandis why the coalition never "fixed" it!

Jaeger

29/09/2011Yes, it's "terrible" that they can't/couldn't repeal the statute without throwing their mean, callous, heartless exteriors into sharp relief... (Apols, Douglas Adams.) More grist for t'media inquiry.

D Mick Weir

29/09/2011FS, finally escaped from other lives and caught up with this. Well done, you inspired a 'deeply euridite conversation'. I think I said way back that reading widely helps enable euridtion (?!!!?) seems you have ben doing that well :) Anything I could add to the discussion seems to have already been written so my two cents worth is: [i]Well commented Swordsfolk[/i] and with a little hesitation I add that even the lower case double letter engaged sorta ok.

Trevor

29/09/2011SIC You are right. I did miss your response so have gone back to recover. For the benefit of any others who may have missed the dialogue I will provide it here: [quote][i]"Trevor, thank you for your invitation to engage in reasoned debate. I did try it a few years back. My [dissentient] comments came under the notice of TPS’ resident amateur psychiatrist/psychologist who chided me for not adoring the messiah, Saint Kevin. After pointing out to her that my views were no more and no less valid than hers she did concede that I had a right to hold a point of view. I found her attitude amusing and sad if you know what I mean. Then the soap-box Cromwell from the Central Coast picked me up on something I said or did and Lyn ‘the wandering comma’ chimed in saying that I used words that forced her to consult a dictionary. FS also used similar words but Lyn failed to rebuke FS even though I pointed it out to her. At this point Lyn claimed to have misplaced her white cane. Trevor, I don’t have a ‘side’ as you put it. I regard ALL Australian politicians as nothing more than putrid, vile, disgusting, lying, devious, scheming, filthy, bludging time-wasters who, when not planning raids on the public purse, are to be found at the trough. When I vote I try to vote for the party or individual that will do the least amount of damage to Australia. So you see Trevor I add pithy comments and I do not take umbrage at what others say to me. What does irk me is when I strike back AA appears with his usual “don’t say that to other posters”. He is loath to issue such edicts to TPS’s pets. Should I take the time to engage in reasoned debate? I can’t see the point of that when others here merely rehash ALP press releases or focus on the meeja. [/i][/quote]" Crispy. Look I am sorry, consider me a bit of dill if you like but could you please point to any sentence in the above where you provide any explanation of Direct Action. This was the request after all. I may be slow, but to me on reading this the only conclusion I can come to is that you want to avoid actual debate in favour of just having a good old slag. So until I see something where you contribute I will be withdrawing. Feel free to come back and slag away it doesn't bother me. If that is what floats your boat go for it, I will move on to something constructive.

NormanK

29/09/2011[b]WA Nationals MP Tony Crook weighs support for Labor's asylum changes[/b] by James Massola [quote]TONY Crook has declared he wants refugee boat arrivals to stop to save asylum-seeker lives, in a sign he may support Labor amendments to allow offshore processing in Malaysia. ************************************** Mr Crook said he wanted asylum-seekers “coming in through proper channels”, and he was concerned about the risks taken by those boarding boats to Australia. “The Christmas Island tragedy and stories you hear about boats that don't turn up - that to me as a human being is a concern,” he said. “My concern is that asylum-seekers take massive risks. Offshore processing is a deterrent. “But whether Malaysia is the answer, because of human rights concerns there, all this plays on my mind.”[/quote] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/wa-nationals-mp-tony-crook-weighs-support-for-labors-asylum-changes/story-fn9hm1gu-1226151879166

jane

30/09/2011Michael @8.03am, not only look stupid, but confirm my opinion that they are stupid. Don't you love Dolt's whining self-pitying pack of more lies? Poor widdle me, the nasty judge took away my freedom of speech. Doesn't he realise how [strike]self[/strike] important I am? I don't have to be truthful or honest when I pen my magnificent treatises... you, the woman at the back with the sword, I don't have to include any facts, I'm the great Andrew Dolt, you must bow down and worship me. Help! Help! SIC, help me she's bombarding me with facts. There's more of them! A bird with an umbrella is throwing links at me and another female keeps chucking poetry at me! And there's men too!! Aaagghhh! they're coming at me with a truth serum! They're force feeding me decency and integrity. Help, I'm going under!!

lyn

30/09/2011Hi Jane Thankyou for the belly laugh, you are absolutely hilarious. Your comments are gold. A new book being released tomorrow, looks like the writer will confirm our opinion, and hopefully 17million others: [quote]'Sexist' Abbott blasted in new book , Katherine Murphy, SMH[/quote]TONY Abbott is a sore loser, afflicted by ''innate and deeply embedded sexism and misogyny'', and would use a future prime ministership to impose his simplistic views on the country, according to a provocative new book to hit the shelves tomorrow. http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/sexist-abbott-blasted-in-new-book-20110929-1kzdi.html#ixzz1ZNWqUIXO Cheers:):):):):):):):):)

lyn

30/09/2011[b]TODAY'S LINKS[/b] [i]HAPPY 50TH, PRIME Minister, The Hoopla[/i] Australia’s first female Prime Minister joins a host of local and overseas talent, including US President Barack Obama, The Hoopla has compiled a gallery of classic Julia Gillard moments. http://thehoopla.com.au/happy-50th-prime-minister/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Hooplasep [i]Rudd, the anti-politics campaigner – Reprise-? The Piping Shrike[/i] The media has a sense of this and so can most easily envisage Rudd’s return if it happens shortly before the election, capitalising on a brief honeymoon then quickly going to the polls before it fades http://www.pipingshrike.com/ [i]Don't hang out the Reiths: WorkChoices isn't dead yet, Tim Dunlop, The Drum[/i] I say credit, but it is more like rat-cunning, an unwillingness to muddy the waters of his fantastically successful 'prognosis negative' campaignwith anything resembling a policy position. That's why as recently as yesterday he again ruled out a key plank of the WorkChoices platform, http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3034494.html [i]At Home With Tony!, PatriciaWA, Café Whispers[/i] Like most of the media she’s got it wrong,But some of us have known it all along.Tony Abbott as PM will dodgeThe inconvenience of The Lodge.Like John Howard, he’s not silly,Where he plans to live is Kirribilli! http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/ [i]Bolt's columns did not deserve to see the light of day. End of story, Michael Gawenda, The Drum[/i] I believe the editors of the Herald Sun should have pulled the columns because they were nasty and badly argued. To have done so was their right.And they should have done so even if Bolt, as a consequence, would have painted himself a martyr to free speech — strange how these free speech martyrs http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3071066.html [i]It's just bad journalism from News Ltd , Gary Sauer-Thompson, Public Opinion’[/i] News Ltd's response to the judgement handed down on the Bolt case by Judge Mordecai Bromberg is predictable. Freedom of speech (of the media) is at stake here. It's a bad law. This is maintained even though the Racial Discrimination Act, has http://www.sauer-thompson.com/archives/opinion/2011/09/its-just-bad-jo.php#more [i]Does this look like being “silenced”?, Jeremy Sear, Pure Poison[/i] The lie in the claim that Bolt’s “free speech” has been crushed is out there for all to see. In fact, today, it’s kind of hard to avoid. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/09/29/does-this-look-like-being-silenced/ [i]Andrew Bolt, racial vilification and ‘freedom of speech’, Mark Bahnisch , Sed Probate Spiritus[/i] there is no surprise, either, that Andrew Bolt is one of Australia’s most prominent ‘climate change skeptics’. In truth, none of these opinions,which it is Andrew Bolt’s business to shore up, are worth a penny.I refrain from discussing Bolt’s opinions themselves, because their realeffects are to be found in the way they reinforce received opinion. http://sedprobatespiritus.tumblr.com/post/10763351311/andrew-bolt-racial-vilification-and-freedom-of [i]Andrew Bolt, racism and the internet, Andrew Jakubowicz, The Conversation[/i] Already the Libertarian Right have begun to marshal their traditional arguments to cover Andrew Bolt’s disgrace by the Federal Court.Bolt himself has screeched freedom of speech in the wake of his ascerbic tongue getting him into hot water. http://theconversation.edu.au/andrew-bolt-racism-and-the-internet-3626 [i]Marr sticks boot in, as Bolt hits back at guilty race verdict, Tom Cowie, The Power Index[/i] Bolt also said the court case had made him depressed and referred to his "misery" at having spent "two years of worry, two weeks in court, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal costs". http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/power-move/marr-sticks-boot-in-as-bolt-hits-back- [i]A more detailed analysis of the Bolt case, Legal Eagel, Skeptic Lawyer[/i] the tone of Bolt’s articles rendered them offensive, insulting and likely to humiliate and intimidate the plaintiffs (and consequently theycontravened s 18C). Secondly, the judge found that Bolt’s articles were not ‘said or done reasonably and in good faith’ http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2011/09/29/a-more-detailed-analysis-of-the-bolt-case/ [i]Cultural Ignorance Is No Virtue Mark Fletcher, New Matilda[/i] In April, I argued that the media had an interest in protecting all forms of free expression because so much of their business model consists of stirring controversy with ludicrous and outrageous slurs. If freedom of expression is restricted in any way, that business model becomes less viable. http://newmatilda.com/2011/09/29/cultural-ignorance-no-virtu [i]Andrew Bolt, Free Speech, and Racial Intolerance, Sarah Joseph, Castan Centre[/i] Andrew Bolt did not lose this case because he wished to make some contentious points about Aboriginal identity politics. He lost it because of the“manner” in which he wrote about that issue. He lost because he included many false assertions which were likely defamatory of named people http://castancentre.wordpress.com/ [i]Bolt court decision sparks national debate, NICK CHRISTENSEN , Media Diary, The Australian[/i] Yesterday’s Federal Court ruling against Andrew Bolt has sparked a national discussion over the implications of decision and what it means for journalists and Australian journalism. http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/mediadiary/index.php/theaustralian/comments/bolt_/ [i]Financial Uncertainty and the risky Opposition, Shaun Newman, Independent Australia[/i] The most unsettling thought at this stage would be a totally inexperienced financial team at the helm that we may inherit if the Federal Opposition were to be able to force an election at this stage. If this situation arose before the next scheduled election http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/politics/financial-uncertainty-and-the-risky-opposition/ [i]Abbott’s climate change Tea Party stirs in Canberra, Giles Parker, Crikey[/i] Liberal MP Patrick Secker saying more people will die from global cooling, Victorian Senator Mitch Fifield describing proponents of an ETS of having a a theological approach to discussion “more suited to an inquisition”, Nationals Senator Ron Boswell describing the science as fraudulent, Liberal Senator Eric Abetz http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/09/29/abbotts-climate-change-tea-party-stirs-in-canberra/ [i]Here comes the sun (and friends): conventional energy is under pressure, Alan Pears, The Fifth Estate[/i] Tony Abbott can claim that individuals and small businesses will be harassed by “carbon police” that industries will shut down and that many will experience massive costs, all with no basis in fact. Indeed, we all know that the Hazelwood or Yallourn power stations will shut down eventually under either a Tony Abbott or Julia Gillard-led government. http://www.thefifthestate.com.au/archives/28307 [i]Gina The Lion Heart? Adam Brereton, New Matilda[/i] If you can move past the mindbogglingly shameless rent-seeking of a woman tipped to soon be personally worth $100 billion, whose philanthropic efforts have mainly taken place offshore (with the exception of naming a school hall after her mother, obviously), there are a couple of big holes here. http://newmatilda.com/2011/09/29/gina-lion-heart [i]Nuclear waste trucked through SA – context in news is tucked at end if you’re lucky , Sans Science[/i] This is why I often like reading Greg Jericho’s (aka Grog’s Gamut) articles on the The Drum when they’re not too political – because unlike everything else that’s news and opinion, his articles generally contain some background/perspective/context/data/numbers or (Heaven forbid!) even some graphs, http://sansscience.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/nuclear-waste-trucked-through-sa-context-in-news-is-tucked-at [i]Dr. Eugenie Scott on Evolution and Global Warming Denialism: How the Public is Misled, Moth, New Anthropcene[/i] About MothSituated in South Australia, he is a technical science officer with a background in ecology, atmospheric / meteorologica l monitoring and web / graphic design. On New Anthropocene, his main interest is improving productive urban landscapes – http://newanthropocene.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/dr-eugenie-scott-on-evolution- [i]Clubs Australia and GetUp in the footy grand final, Kelsey, Getup[/i] Australia has the greatest number of dangerous high-loss pokie machines in the world. These machines have been called the “crack cocaine” of gambling – and for good reason. They are designed to be highly appealing to addictive personalities http://blog.getup.org.au/ [i]NBN Co's flawed balance sheet, Paul Budde, Technology Spectator[/i] electronic participation utilising the NBN infrastructure. This should lead to a more serious participation of these sectors in the infrastructure design and architecture of the NBN to make sure it will support their requirements. Significant progress has been made here and, once more,Australia is leading the world in these developments. http://technologyspectator.com.au/nbn-buzz/nbn-cos-flawed-balance-sheet?utm_source=Technology+Spectator [i]Opposition uses World Broadband Forum to lay boot into NBN, Chloe Herrick, Tech World[/i] Malcolm Turnbull, addressed attendees of the forum in Paris and claimed that the NBN was unique when measured against the rest of the world as it will fail to encourage greater competition in the telecommunications sector. http://www.techworld.com.au/article/402323/opposition_uses_world_broadband_forum_lay_boot_into_nbn [i]The Magic of Exile: Anna Funder’s 'All That I Am', David Marr, The Monthly[/i] Ruth Becker describes the predicament of these writers, politicians, agitators and journalists: “Every three months when we respectfully begged His Majesty the King of England to be allowed to stay, our minds flooded with the things we could not mention in our polite visa application letters, he true reason we could not go home.” http://www.themonthly.com.au/anna-funder-s-all-i-am-magic-exile-david-marr-3777

Gravel

30/09/2011Lyn Thanks again for your wonderful links. Are you going on holiday in October, I missed that bit of news. Hope you have great time, we will all miss you. NormanK, sounds like you will be filling in for Lyn. If you finding of links are as good as your comments, I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Jane Like Lyn, I got a great belly laugh from you comment at 1.02am. It was excellent, and look forward to more. I am unable to write anything funny, I can't even repeat a joke without mucking it up. I envy everyone's talent that can make people laugh, and right now we good Aussies need a good laugh.

Michael

30/09/2011Lying Rodent #2 Senator George Brandis, the Coalition's Shadow Attorney General, once famously (and accurately) described then PM John Howard as being a "lying rodent". That was the last time on record I am aware of the Senator ever being accurate. He has certainly slipped easily into the rat-eaten cloak of a lying rodent himself today in this article: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/section-18c-has-no-place-in-a-society-that-values-freedom-of-expression/story-e6frgd0x-1226152196836 where he quotes from the article of the Racial Discrimination Act that brought bad-researcher/lousy polemicist Andrew (wish he'd do a) Bolt down in a court of law. Brandis's quote makes it absolutely clear that the bad behaviour being prohibited is specifically targeted at racial vilification. And, then with his patented Brandisian lousy lawyerly QC in a the cereal box slip-slide to wherever it takes to misrepresent something (Coalition policy template par excellence), he then rattles on like a particularly 'unlearned friend' about generalised matters of free speech and political opinion. Drops the specific nature of the thunderedly relevant clause (let alone the tightly defined nature of the Act itself) being to matters of race, and applies them wide and wide (like a rat's toothy grin) to any and all matters of an Australian citizen's right to free speech. Just about as much legitimacy of reasoned argument as Joe Hockey brought to his knowledge of exactly who the Euromoney Finance Minister of the Year winners from Pakistan and Nigeria were, and what they'd achieved. Ditto Tony Abbott's grip on and understanding of climate science. Or Christopher Pyne's understanding of Parliamentary Standing Orders (except when he stands to be thrown out of the chamber yet again). Or Julie Bishop's apparently less than Josh Frydenberg-steady (according to her faithful leader, 'he's a good boy', Tony Abbott) grip on understanding Foreign Affairs. There's not a Shadow Portfolio that isn't 'filled' by a shadow, a Coalition politician with such a slim grip on the details of what is required to be a Minister in the portfolio he/she shadows that an Abbott Government will redefine "weathervane" top to bottom, bottom to top. As Australia sinks. PS As has been noted elsewhere, however much the Coalition might have 'warned' us about the 'harmful' nature of the clause Brandis quotes, they had eleven years in government to undo said harm, and... As they were in government under the lying rodent, as they 'promise' to be (the horror, the horror) led by Shouldabeen lounging at the Lodge, the Coalition are the great do-nothings of Australian politics, the parties of 'leave well enough alone', 'if no-one notices, why bother?' and 'the market always knows best (how to look after itself)'.

Ad astra reply

30/09/2011LYN'S DAILY LINKS updated: http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/page/LYNS-DAILY-LINKS.aspx

Ad astra reply

30/09/2011Hi Lyn Thank you for yet another great set of links. You have finished the month of September with a grand flourish. We all wish you an enjoyable break with your family during October. You are a gem. Your contribution is central to the success of this website. In the meantime, NormanK will continue the links service, which is such a valuable part of [i]The Political Sword[/i].

TalkTurkey

30/09/2011Jane I'm saying what Lyn's saying. Your posts are brilliant, they make us feel better about Mad Bad Abbortt, and you are helping us to keep those Right Whingers at bay. We ARE winning, though, palpably, with a lot of help from [i]poor[/i] Andrew BumBolt, [i]poor[/i] little Mary-Jo Fisher, and [i]poor, poor, poor [/i] . . . [b][u]SOPHIE[/u][/b] [b]![/b] Vampirella, Mirabella, How does your wealth grow so? [i]- With strange affairs With deranged millionaires And Attorney's powers when they go![/i](K) Bloody dragon-brood of Jo Bjelke-Petersen, Lying Rodent Howard, Sleazy Reith and all their crowd. Dog AllBitey, may such as they never come to reign over us! The comments on BumBolt are spectacular and wonderful eh Lyn! We have great company Out There, our chance and duty imo is to link to and liaise with them, let *them* know [i]*they*[/i] are not alone, as this Bolt issue is showing us right now. That is what The Political Sword is all about, all praise to Ad and the invisible Web Monkey, and more praise again for all the goodwilled contributors, but of course especially our Tweety-Bird Lyn, because that liaising is what she does directly, and first, and best! To all the people who have posted Get-rid-of-Bolt comments on the Ten site, I say: O Comrades-in-arms! You are amongst friends here. As concerns those above-named creeps and crooks and their ilk, as a professed Goodwillian myself, I must admit they try me to the limit. I am goodwilled enough towards them that I would gladly see them deposed and exiled to some far lonely place where they could never again cause such angst to so many. They won't do it to themselves, that's why we have to do our best to bring it about. And at least to keep them out of power!

TalkTurkey

30/09/2011[i]PatriciaWA I hope you don't mind But from Lyn's Links today, What did I find? I found your fine Pome At our friend Miglo's Cafe! So I've brought it home So we too have a laff, eh![/i] But everyone should go to Cafe Whispers to see PWA's photo of Sophie Puff Adder Mirabella! How can one face look so . . . [i]obscene?![/i] Like the famous piece of liver in Portnoy's Complaint! (P) http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/ Tony Abbott Doesn’t Want The Lodge! Like most of the media she’s got it wrong, But some of us have known it all along. Tony Abbott as PM will dodge The inconvenience of The Lodge. Like John Howard, he’s not silly, Where he plans to live is Kirribilli! Ask any TV news reporter, He needs sea to prove he walks on water. And those shots of his daily cleans and jerks,, Don’t reveal all of his body works. Some things are best kept in obscurity Beyond range of Canberra “security. It’s rumoured he has a secret life Behind the facade of three kids and a wife. He needs to take care or he’ll be a goner, Seen once too often with that ‘Belladonna.’ Whoever of these is his ‘lovely lady’ He should drop her. She’s poison. Deadly. Shady. Then he should do that show, “At Home With Tony” Just for PR, no matter how phony. Show off his house and he’d have it made. He can mention his mortgage he’s gotta get paid. “Money’s tight, sure don’t grow on trees!” Yeah, he’s just like us. So vote for him, please! Nearby lives friend and advisor, George Pell, A Cardinal, who can save him from hell, Forgive him this sin, grant him remission, With the others to come, at daily confession. That’s another reason Tony’s ambition is For our PM’s residence to be in Sydney’s Catholic Archdiocese.

Patricia WA

30/09/2011Thanks for the compliment, TT, but I have to tell you I owe the inspiration for that last line to you. Since you gave me that tip about near rhymes, I've been playing with lots of them. Opens up a whole range of possibilities. PS I hoped you particularly would like my [u]Belladonna[/u] or [u]deadly nightshade[/u] reference. So descriptive, and the syllables are just right too, tho' I sez it myself!

Feral Skeleton

30/09/2011Sir Ian Crisp, My premise is not that 'Religion is incapable of reform', it is that the melding of Conservative politics in the 21st century with the tenets of the Religious Right, in all their 'flexible' glory unto God and Mammon, will affect us all, and especially those of us, secular and/or atheist, who want no truck with it. Quite simple proposition that you keep wilfully ignoring it seems to me. Now, to your spurious assertion: [quote]If religion is incapable of reform why would the Church of England ordain 213 women and 210 men as priests in 2007#? Hardly ‘Pop’ religion icons eh what. In the modern era, that immoveable belief system known as religion started ordaining women in the Easter of 1994. In the USA and Canada we now have women bishops. It seems like change is afoot but no one has informed Mr Joshua Holland. [/quote] Firstly, in the Church of England, seeing as how you are such a well-read expert on it, you might have come across news about the schism that was threatening to open up with the more Conservative(there's that word again :) ), elements of the Church over the Ordination of Women as Bishops, as Wikipedia impartially notes: [quote]Legislation authorising the ordination of women as deacons was passed in 1986 and they were first ordained in 1987. The ordination of women as priests was passed by the General Synod in 1993 and began in 1994. In July 2005 the synod voted to "set in train" the process of allowing the consecration of women as bishops. In February 2006 the synod voted overwhelmingly for the "further exploration" of possible arrangements for parishes that did not want to be directly under the authority of a woman bishop.[12] On 7 July 2008 the church's governing body voted to approve the ordination of women as bishops and rejected moves for alternative episcopal oversight for those who do not accept women bishops.[13] Actual ordinations of women to the episcopate will require further legislation which is anticipated to be considered before 2014.[14][/quote] With respect to the Anglican Church itself, under whose umbrella the Episopal Church has come, that is, the Episcopal Church in America that has ordained the first openly homosexual Bishop, all is not sunshine and happiness either: [quote]One effect of the Communion's dispersed authority has been that conflict and controversy regularly arise over the effect divergent practices and doctrines in one part of the Communion have on others.[citation needed] Disputes that had been confined to the Church of England could be dealt with legislatively in that realm, but as the Communion spread out into new nations and disparate cultures, such controversies multiplied and intensified. These controversies have generally been of two types: liturgical and social.[citation needed] The first such controversy of note concerned that of the growing influence of the Catholic Revival manifested in the tractarian and so-called ritualism controversies of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.[citation needed] This controversy produced the Free Church of England and, in the USA and Canada, the Reformed Episcopal Church. Later, rapid social change and the dissipation of British cultural hegemony over its former colonies contributed to disputes over the role of women, the parameters of marriage and divorce, and the practice of contraception and abortion.[citation needed] In the late 1970s, the Continuing Anglican movement produced a number of new church bodies in opposition to women's ordination, prayer book changes, and the new understandings concerning marriage. More recently, disagreements over homosexuality have strained the unity of the Communion as well as its relationships with other Christian denominations,[citation needed] leading to another round of withdrawals from the Anglican Commmunion. The churches founded at the beginning of the twenty-first century in opposition to the ordination of openly homosexual bishops are usually referred to as part of the Anglican realignment movement. In some ways, they represent a stronger opposition because they have the backing of many member provinces of the Anglican Communion and, in some cases, are or have been missionary jurisdictions of such provinces of the Communion as the Churches of Nigeria, Kenya, Rwanda, and the Southern Cone of America[/quote] Which actually tends to support Joshua Holland's assertion that: [quote]'It's a fixed belief system based on faith, and it is immune to-or at least highly resistant to-challenges mounted by objective reality.' [/quote]

Feral Skeleton

30/09/2011Bushfire Bill's assessment of Brandis' defense of Bolt in The Oztrollian today (come back Bushfire Bill!): [quote]Brandis is full of high dudgeon over the Bolt case, but he should relax a bit and untie the large knot his knickers have gotten themselves into. He thunders that it is now an offence to even offend someone on racial grounds. However, he forgets the “out” clause, s.18D “Exemptions”. This section of the Act makes it OK to offend people by writing: (i) a fair and accurate report of any event or matter of public interest; In other words, if Bolt’s articles had been based on facts, and not Googled half-truths or outright falsehoods and conjecture by Bolt presented as facts, then he was in the clear. Unfortunately for Bolt, the judge found that Bolt’s whole thesis – that fair-skinned non-aborigines were rorting the system – wouldn’t have stood up under the true facts of each of the individuals in question. “Professional” fair-skinned aborigines may indeed be rorting it, but not these fair-skinned aborigines. It wasn’t just that Bolt got some facts wrong (anyone can make a mistake). It was that the true facts proved the opposite of what Bolt was alleging. The law seems to have been applied correctly, so Brandis calls for it to be repealed or amended, something which he had plenty of opportunity to get done during 12 years of government… but didn’t. As the law stands if you want to offend someone on racial grounds, or based on the color of their skin, you can go right ahead, as long as your words are accurate and fair. It’s a special law that applies to special situations: those based on race or colour. It does relax the general definition of defamation, but for Brandis to suddenly exclaim that he’s “Shocked! SHOCKED to find politically correct laws in this place” is a tad rich. In the 16 years these laws have been in force, his mob was in power for 12 of them – including over two years with majorities in both houses – and did nothing.[/quote]

Feral Skeleton

30/09/2011Vote1Maxine put up a link on PollBludger to this interesting book, due out in October, which has some relevance to this blog topic(Come back Vote1Maxine!): http://blog.booktopia.com.au/2011/07/18/tony-abbott-a-mans-man-by-susan-mitchell-best-known-for-her-ground-breaking-best-selling-book-tall-poppies/#comment-7064

Patricia WA

30/09/2011Hi jane, just organising myself after a late night. TT's comment above reminded me what a laugh you gave me in the early hours as I burned the midnight oil, as it were. Have a lovely time with the family, lyn! You deserve a break. Hope you don't suffer withdrawal symptoms - you're such a devil for work. Well, an angel really.

Feral Skeleton

30/09/2011More on the Susan Mitchell book: http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/books/sexist-abbott-blasted-in-new-book-20110929-1kzdi.html

Feral Skeleton

30/09/2011'Norm's links' sounds great :D

lyn

30/09/2011Hi Ad Thankyou for you lovely wishes to me. Thankyou to Gravel, Talk Turkey, Patricia, all my TPS friends I adore you all. I will get withdrawal symptoms, so I hope there is no computers in my sight, because I would be straight onto TPS in a flash. Norman K big appreciation wishes to you for taking over "Today's Links, you are going to have a wonderful time, all that valuable, reading, knowledge is power, not that you need much more, anyway enjoyable reading. Ad there is a big fuss over new book release tomorrow about Abbott: [quote]'Sexist' Abbott blasted in new book , SMH[/quote] [b]TONY Abbott is a sore loser[/b], afflicted by ''innate and deeply embedded sexism and misogyny'', and would use a future prime ministership to impose his simplistic views on the country, according to a provocative new book to hit the shelves tomorrow. Susan Mitchell paints an intensely unflattering portrait of the man who would be Australia's next prime minister, sketching Mr Abbott as a graceless, obsessively competitive ''man's man''; [b]a ferocious partisan imbued with conservative Catholic social values.[/b] http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/sexist-abbott-blasted-in-new-book-20110929-1kzdi.html#ixzz1ZOSDTDgX Here are a few comments from twitter:- @JulianBurnsidejulianburnside New book about #Abbott by Susan Mitchell. Great book; terrifying portrait of a truly [b]dangerous, unprincipled person: a liar and a hypocrite[/b] @JulianBurnsidejulianburnside 'Sexist' Abbott blasted in new book http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/books/sexist-abbott-blasted-in-new-book-20110929-1kzdi.html via @theage It's a great book. Abbott will lead the country back to the dark ages booktopiabooktopia Tony Abbott: A Man's Man by Susan Mitchell, best known for her ground-breaking, best-selling book Tall Poppies. wp.me/pvM5p-4lA 12 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply zacksterZac Spitzer I am truly shocked that someone could write a nasty book about #abbott 28 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply theageThe Age 'Sexist' Abbott blasted in new book - getting a lot of reader comments on this one theage.com.au/entertainment/… via @theage 1 hour agoFavoriteRetweetReply murpharooKatharine Murphy Susan Mitchell's view of Abbott will get people talking, [b]judging by comments it already has tinyurl.com/5vxzzo7 @theage[/b]29 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply MisdaMagooMr. Magoo 'Sexist' Abbott blasted in new book - theage.com.au/entertainment/… from @TheAge ....Toxic Tonys Problems With Women wont go away. #auspol #abcnews24 1 hour agoFavoriteRetweetReply SchtangSchtang bit.ly/ppCAhp no evidence that Abbott's views had moderated with time, if anything "he's become more [b]extreme right wing[/b]" #auspol 1 hour agoFavoriteRetweetReply markjs1Mark Shove @ @Davis_GM This is why Abbott will NEVER be PM.... bit.ly/qwmkzh Keep the faith!! #auspol #mediafail #NBN 2 hours agoFavoriteRetweetReply AbbottPartyofNOMadMonk SaysNO Abbott "obsessively competitive ''man's man''; a ferocious partisan.. conservo Catholic social values bit.ly/no0opk#auspol 2 hours agoFavoriteRetweetReply mattiethereaderMattie Sexist misogynistic @TonyAbbottMHR blasted as "Graceless obsessively competitive sore loser in new book. A must read. theage.com.au/entertainment/… 3 hours agoFavoriteRetweetReply @markjs1Mark Shove Bushfire Bill reminds us that #Bolt has done it before in 2002....& $246,000 damages were awarded: http://bit.ly/nStoWT #auspol #mediafail 39 minutes agovia TweetDeck Cheers:):):):):):):):)

Feral Skeleton

30/09/2011John Quiggan's blog on Bolt: http://johnquiggin.com/2011/09/30/bolt-again/

Feral Skeleton

30/09/2011Mark Bahnisch on the Bolt judgement: http://mindmadeup.net/2011/09/30/andrew-bolt-racial-vilification-and-%E2%80%98freedom-of-speech/

debbiep

30/09/2011 Happy holidays lyn.. BTW I just spent nearly an hour reading through comments under articles on Susan Mitchell Book. I breathe easier now knowing that many 'view' Abbott the same way as I , and it is being voiced in many of the comments. Whether that will make a difference, I am not sure - to our polls as I see Abbott like A Pied Piper. Will you read it as it coincides with your holiday ,lol... No, have fun and leave politics alone.

NormanK

30/09/2011Lyn I hope you have a great break with your family. I know it won't be a holiday but I'm sure the change will be its own reward. You'll have to pop in occasionally or we will all start to suffer withdrawal symptoms. Have fun and don't work too hard. :D :D :D

Ad astra reply

30/09/2011Hi Lyn Thank you for your kind comments and for another set of fascinating tweets. I hope the [i]TPS[/i] withdrawal symptoms are not too troublesome while you’re having a break. The tweets about Susan Mitchell’s book: [i]Tony Abbott: A Man's Man[/i] are fascinating – it looks like essential reading.

TalkTurkey

30/09/2011Hippy 50th Bathday Madam Prime Minister! Be sure that for every media-orchestrated Coalon-hyped hate-spitting ignorant lying hypocritical Fascist creep who reviles you, there are [i]many [/i]sensible, decent, thoughtful, appreciative, staunch people who are determined to see you throught this and into another term as our PM. There [i]needs[/i] to be many such decent people to each hater, because haters get so much support and publicity from the Media, but never fear *J*U*L*I*A* we are with you and we will win! That's why I keep saying [b][i]VENCEREMOS![/i][/b]

NormanK

30/09/2011Since this is likely to be a hot topic over the next six months or so, the following article strikes me as being a fair assessment of our trading relationship with China and how that might be effected (or not) by our continued allegiances with the U.S. [b]Our China ties are firmly bound[/b] by John Lee {Dr John Lee is the Michael Hintze Fellow for Energy Security and Adjunct Associate Professor at the Centre for International Security Studies, Sydney University, and a non-resident scholar at the Hudson Institute in Washington DC.} [quote]Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s review of Australia's engagement with Asia is promising to deliver a blueprint that will guide Australia’s strategic, economic and trade direction over the course of the next generation. Although driven by the transformative shifts in economic power from West to East, and led by former Treasury Secretary Ken Henry, the white paper is designed to address questions about Australia’s future strategic orientation in addition to its economic one. Since the announcement, some experts – such as Professor Hugh White – have suggested the recent reinforcing of our strategic alliance with the United States will likely harm our future economic relationship with China. **************************************** Australia’s external environment has become much more complicated. But the evidence and logic that China will – or even is able to – economically punish Australia if we do not move closer to its strategic orbit is weak.[/quote] http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/China-trade-relations-Australia-US-export-import-m-pd20110929-M6B4H?OpenDocument&src=mp Contrast the above article with this spiteful bit of non-journalism from Greg Sheridan. [b]Enough talk, Julia Gillard, time to do something[/b] by Greg Sheridan [quote]ONCE again the Gillard government's paralytic inability to actually do anything results in a wide-ranging inquiry of indeterminate consequence, this time on Asia. Julia Gillard's speech on Asia was at least a public recognition of Asia's importance by the nation's leader. But it contained nothing of consequence beyond the recitation of the standard cliches and a delphic reference to the government comprehending both the risks and the opportunities, apparently of China's rise and the US alliance. What was bizarre, though, was the white paper announcement. Instead of the four-millionth inquiry into what Asia means for Australia, how about some actual policy? Instead of talking about it, for god's sake, just do it. There are inquiries, books, symposiums and seminars without number already telling the government everything it needs to know about Asia. What is missing is the government's willingness to take one bit of meaningful action.[/quote] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/enough-talk-julia-gillard-time-to-do-something/story-e6frgd0x-1226150205716

TalkTurkey

30/09/2011Lyn You must know we will miss you, and equally I'm sure you will miss us if you can't ever get to a computer - Heaven forfend! -but with NormanK as your Lieutenant, always ably supported by Professor Skeleton and Sergeant Jason, our legal team with Psysclaw and Partners, and our Lodestar, Ad astra, and the rest of the Swordsfolk, I'm sure we will survive . . . [i]just[/i] . . . and it might be a salutary lesson to the rest of us, not so to depend absolutely on your work, but rather to do a bit more ourselves. More than anything else in particular, we have already learnt from you the great value of the work you do, and the importance of its continuance even when you are not around - as in, on H:)LIDAYS! But [i]don't be away too long![/i] (K) Have a wonderful time Lyn + 1 !

TalkTurkey

30/09/2011[i]Psyclaw[/i], sorry.

lyn

30/09/2011Hi NormanK Thankyou for your wishes, I am very excited about staying with my daughter and little grandaughter. I will still miss TPS. Everytime I see an opportunity to escape to their study I will be straight onto TPS. Thankyou Debbie P you are another very special person. Wow! I have been trying to get to those comments on Abbott's book story. I agree with you there is great enjoyment to be had reading all those other people have the same opinion as us. Yes I will read the Susan Mitchell Book I am searching for an extract now. Just have a look at these houses: [quote]Rupert Murdoch sells Long Island mansion through sister-in-law listing agent, Property Observer[/quote] The home overlooking Oyster Bay was taken off the market a few times, most notably when it was rented out to celebrity couple Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie in 2008. The Jolie-Pitts reportedly paid $100,000 to lease it for a month while Jolie filmed scenes for the movie Salt nearby. http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/international/rupert-murdoch-sells-long-island-mansion-through-sister-in-law-selling-agent/2011092951735 [quote]Title Tattle: Kevin Rudd and Therese Rein spend $1.4 million on Brissie block Property Observer[/quote] And don’t say that Title Tattle told you but Kevin Rudd and Therese Rein spent $1.4 million on their near-riverfront 510-square-metre vacant block of land in Brissie, on which they plan to build their empty nest with space for visitors down the track. The block has great views. Its official recent valuation was $1.25 million. Their existing Norman Park house cost $384,000 in 1994. http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/residential/title-tattle-kevin-rudd-and-therese-rein-spend-$1.4-million-on-brissie-block/2011093051751 Cheers:):):):):):):):)

BSA Bob

30/09/2011Talk Turkey Your birthday wishes for Julia Gillard- I went to bed on Wednesday night convinced of one thing & fairly certain of another. Firstly, that Abbott WOULD sledge Julia in his "wishes" & be cheerfully facilitated in this by the MSM, & secondly that the sun would rise on Thursday morning. As it happens, I was right about the sun as well. Lyn Have a good holiday.

2353

30/09/2011Have a good holiday Lyn - don't be a stranger.

TalkTurkey

30/09/2011BSA Bob I can see you have a keen eye for the odds! ;-) We don't hear nearly enough from you - and if I'm right (in the non-political sense) you a fellow Crowie?

lyn

30/09/2011Hi Talk Turkey Thankyou you know you are magic. Thankyou for the magic dust you spread for me in your superb comment. What a magnificient team :- [quote]NormanK as your Lieutenant, always ably supported by Professor Skeleton and Sergeant Jason, our legal team with Psysclaw and Partners, and our Lodestar, Ad astra, Talk Turkey as scrutineer[/quote], Michael chief reporter, Acerbic Conehead theatre producer, Patricia poetic elevated expression of elevated thought. Most important, All our adoreable commenters cheering each other on. [quote]do a bit more ourselves[/quote] None of that Talk Turkey, can't happen, I don't want you guys to go looking for yourselves, no then you won't need me to come back. Dratts to that. More on the book:- [quote]Tony Abbott: A Man’s Man by Susan Mitchell, best known for her ground-breaking, best-selling book Tall Poppies[/quote] When Julia Gillard — a woman who was unmarried, childless, and an atheist — became Australia’s first female prime minister after the 2010 election, opposition leader Tony Abbott was left boiling with rage. It was bad enough that he had lost, but to have to lost to a woman was shameful. For a few days he could not bring himself to call her Prime Minister or even look her in the eyes. It is no mere tactic that has seen Tony Abbott reverting with gusto to to his bomb-throwing style, all his political energy aimed at demolishing Julia Gillard and the government. There is, still time, he believes, to achieve the position which he and his male mentors believe he was destined to have, that of leading his country back to ‘the proper order of things’. Available Now. Order your copy from Booktopia, Australia’s No.1 Online Book Shop – here… http://blog.booktopia.com.au/2011/07/18/tony-abbott-a-mans-man-by-susan-mitchell-best-known-for-her-ground-breaking-best-selling-book-tall-poppies/ [quote]Susan Mitchell on Tony Abbott: Too Dangerous to Lead, The Wheeler Centre : 12:45PM - 1:15PM, Thursday 20 October 2011[/quote] Ever since Tony Abbott assumed the leadership of the Liberal Party, bipartisanship has all but disappeared. He has created a national political atmosphere that is aggressive, inflammatory, and combative. Why? Because it suits his temperament. http://wheelercentre.com/calendar/event/susan-mitchell-on-tony-abbott-too-dangerous-to-lead/ 3 more Bolt articles:- [quote]ANDREW BOLT TALKS DOUBLE DUTCH, Diana Simmonds, The Hoopla[/quote] So is this an attack on freedom of speech? I don’t think so. The Bolt has merely been called on poor workmanship and bad faith. Should we take his self pity seriously? Ik denk het niet, mein liebchen. Volgens mij gij protest te veel. [7] [7] I don’t think so my darling. Methinks thou doest protest too much. http://thehoopla.com.au/andrew-bolt-talks-double-dutch/ [quote]Eatock v Bolt :The stories of the nine plaintiffs – Part 1 , Derek Barry, Woolly Days[/quote] The stories of the nine plaintiffs has been lost in the outpouring of emotion for and against the racial discrimination judgement against fact-free columnist Andrew Bolt. One of the nine, Graham Atkinson, said in court Bolt’s articles reduced Aborigines “to that invisible group of people that http://nebuchadnezzarwoollyd.blogspot.com/2011/09/eatock-v-bolt-stories-of-nine.html [i]Wrapped in Flags and Bolt on ‘Free Speech’, Moth, New Anthropocence [/i] the courts decided on the case of Bolt’s articles, he had used “errors in fact, distortions of the truth and inflammatory and provocative language” in relation to a persons racial identification, well that should be addressed. If Bolt was man enough, he’d own up to pushing unsubstantiated claims too far and unfairly characterising a group of people. He could go one better and then possibly apologise for it before moving on. If history has taught us anything, it’s that this is unlikely to occur. http://newanthropocene.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/wrapped-in-flags-and-bolt-on-free-speech/ Cheers:):):):):):):):):):):)

BSA Bob

30/09/2011Talk Turkey You are right (but never in a political sense) I am indeed a resident of the fair State of South Australia- originally from NSW but I've lived here most of my adult life.

lyn

30/09/2011Hi 2353 and BSA Bob Thankyou so much for giving me your Happy Holiday Best Wishes. Just a bit more information:- [quote]Electoral Commissioner's determination of membership entitlement in the House of Representatives[/quote] 30 September 2011 The number of members to be elected to the House of Representatives at the next federal election will [b]remain unchanged at 150[/b] following a determination by the Australian Electoral Commission. Electoral Commissioner [b]Ed Killesteyn has determined that population figures do not trigger any additional redistribution processes [/b]ahead of the next federal election, which means each state and territory will elect the same number of representatives as at the 2010 federal election. http://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Media_releases/2011/9-30.htm Cheers:):):):):)

Gravel

30/09/2011That book on Abbott sounds like the real thing. I will have to start saving my pennies for it. All reviews by the good TPSers will be much appreciated.

2353

30/09/2011I don't think I'll be waiting to read the Susan Mitchell book on Abbott. In a previous life she was the morning announcer on 612ABC Brisbane and from memory left under a bit of a cloud after abusing someone on air. Regarding Brandis' comments on the Racial Discrimination Act, when is someone going to ask him why the LNP did nothing while they were in power? It won't change anything but it will make him look like a goose!

Jason

30/09/2011September 29, 2011 Sunday morning TV - October 2 #auspol Your guide to this Sunday morning's political and business interviewsFull program listing available at: http://sundaymorningtv.posterous.com/ 8:30am Sky News 601 - Australian Agenda On Sky News Australian Agenda Climate Change shadow minister Greg Hunt and Tasmanian Independent Andrew Wilkie. Joining host Peter Van Onselen on the Panel, The Australian's Paul Kelly, Jennifer Hewett and The Daily Telegraph's Simon Benson. 8:38am Ch7 - Weekend Sunrise - The Riley Diary This week political editor Mark Riley looks at the week in Federal politics, and Julia celebrates a birthday. 8:40am Ch9 - Today on Sunday - The Laurie Oakes Interview The weekly Laurie Oakes interview is in hibernation until further notice. 9:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 - Insiders On Insiders this Sunday, Barrie Cassidy interviews the Minister for Home Affairs, Justice, Privacy and FOI, Brendan O’Connor. On the panel: ABC Online’s Annabel Crabb, the Sydney Morning Herald’s Lenore Taylor and The Australian’s George Megalogenis. And Fiona Katauskas talks pictures with Sun-Herald cartoonist Reg Lynch. 10:00am ABC1 & on ABC News 24 repeated @ 5.30pm - Inside Business This week on Inside Business a detailed look at what’s behind the tumbling prices in commodity markets and whether they’ll continue to fall. And they talk to Connect East Chairman, Tony Shepherd. They also check out the rogue trader phenomenon. As well, the latest news from the markets and Alan Kohler’s incisive commentary. 10.00am Ch10 everywhere but Canberra at 4.30pm - The Bolt Report - Check local program guides for encore performance timings later in the day Federal Infrastructure and Tansport minister Anthony Albanese will be in the studio chatting to Andrew. On the panel, businessman Lindsay Fox and Maurice Blackburn director Liberty Sanger. And Shadow Attorney General Senator George Brandis joins Andrew from Brisbane. 10.30am Ch10 everywhere but Canberra at 4.00pm - Meet the Press - Check local program guides for encore performance timings later in the day Paul Bongiorno is joined by panelists; Misha Schubert from The Age and Marius Benson from ABC News Radio. Together they interview Finance Minister Penny Wong, and Saul Eslake, Director of Productivity Growth from the Grattan Institute.

lyn

30/09/2011Hi Jason Thankyou for the Sunday program. I just might watch you know who. Anthony Albanese won't put up with any nonsense, ummm could be interesting. Cheers:):):):):):)

Jason

30/09/2011Thanks Lyn, I hope you and "Mr Lyn" have a good break! Did you notice one George Brandis SC is also on, I suspect after Albo and no doubt Brandis sc will forget his side were ever in office and tell bolt he's only been found guilty because of what Labor done in 1995! Enjoy your break xo!

Ad astra reply

30/09/2011Folks Note the Coalition tactics over the Treasury figures that show a [b]better than predicted[/b] budget deficit of $47.7 billion for the last financial year. There was Andrew Robb today lambasting the Government for bringing in a deficit, despite the fact that an even [b]bigger[/b] deficit was budgeted. And on top of that he accused the Government of burying the figures in the lead up to the AFL Grand Final, and insisted that Wayne Swan should be embarrassed by bringing in yet another deficit, although this was predicted; and of course he insisted Labor would never bring in a surplus budget. So facts and the truth are irrelevant – just get out there and bawl the Government out even when they have done better than predicted. Labor should learn this tactic and use it mercilessly against the Coalition.

Acerbic Conehead

30/09/2011Jason, Many thanks for the outline of the political shows this weekend. Much appreciated as usual. Lyn, Have a great break and come back to us nice and refreshed. And thanks in anticipation to NormanK for plugging the gap. Have a great weekend everyone.

Ad astra reply

30/09/2011Folks I've just posted Acerbic Conehead's latest satirical treat: [i]What a Y-Frontery!

[/i] http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/ Now you will see where the masked man in Lycra originated that inadvertently found its way to the end of Feral Skeleton's last piece!

 Enjoy it over the weekend.

Patricia WA

30/09/2011NormanK - re your link to [quote][/quote]www.dailytelegraph.com.au/.../story-e6frezz0-1226148389876 Just one more comment, four in all printed, cautioning readers that the article is 97% satire! I tried again with this [quote]I did make a comment yesterday. What happened to it? Were you perhaps hoping for more anti-reform comments? This is a pretty good satire - so close to the reality of the arguments of Clubs Australia that Greg Randolph is right to offer his caution. Where are you Peter Holmes? Or aren't you allowed by the Telegraph to moderate and edit comments on your own articles? I have an image in my mind of the Editor perhaps accepting your copy thinking it was serious stuff and nodding approvingly nearly to the end; then regetting letting you have your head when he saw you were having a go at the Clubs and the many comments like mine coming in. Or maybe DT readers are intelligent enough to see where you were coming from and didn't rush to support you and the Wilkie reform but were too ashamed to admit to agreeing with Clubs Australia?[/quote]

NormanK

30/09/2011Patricia WA Thanks for that. I had meant to go back and check on the comments but other activities prevailed. I wonder why no other comments were published?
I have two politicians and add 2 more; how many are there?